Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Horton hears a wooo whoooo!

Of course the second part of the omygodits1500pagesargument is that it is too long for any member of Congress to be able to read in the time allotted before the vote.

What are members of Congress doing that is more important?

I'm sure Bill Maher would ask if the Bible is in fact worth reading? After all, if you look at what people have done in its name, one could argue it should be avoided reading

...as if you've read it, Mr. Crawford. In your defense, who the hell has time to read 2,000 pages of legalese besides the lawyers who wrote it?

Congress should start writing legislation in classical Latin (granted, "pig" would be more appropriate) to make it as inaccessible as possible to the average citizen.

Watching Craig and Helen on C-Span 2!!!!!

Seems to me we'd be better off if bills were required to be typed on basic electric typewriters--no word processors. Period.

And, critters and their staffs should be limited to 2,000 sq ft of office space.

All meetings with lobbyists must be conducted in the sunshine with verbatim minutes posted on the Internet within 24-hours of said meetings.

And there are plenty more ways of limiting obfuscation through inundation.

let's see how many pages does it take to say "medicare shall be extended to cover every citizen of the united states of america"? heck, that could even be twittered.

oops, needs 8 more words, forgot the punch line
"this act shall take effect january 1, 2011"

I wonder how much is "boilerplate" copied and pasted from someplace else, thus not even original writing?

had to give them at least a year for those who wish to convert their present insurance to supplemental can do so.

wapo story on two of the ft hood victims who were healthcare workers from dc area. wonder if hassan knew them and if they were targeted.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/07/AR2009110702426.html?hpid=topnews

"...as if you've read it, Mr. Crawford. -- Posted by: dark-lord-bloggingham.myopenid.com"

yes i have, DL. took less time than Goodwin's Lincoln book, also a good read

What is right about trying to push any and everything into one Super Bill? It is good to say ?I passed Healthcare".. It enables complex elements like special interest...

But it has delayed and delayed...

Why not pass TODAY the areas of agreement - The low hanging fruit.
Get a bill on the floor right now that allows competition in removes states lines for Insurance !!
Get a bill right now for Tort Reform... Opps sacred cow for washington...

But ya get the point... Washington is just plain screwed up and Nothing has Changed - except the Higher Rate of Spending more money that we do not have to Bankrupt the country and drive the Dollar to junk status

Craig.. You read the last version completely? Wow.. Must have gone to Evelyn Wood Speed reading.

So how many "However's" or "Except" or "Exclusion" or "Opt Out"

How complex? And how much is funding and really tax law vs real reform

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/11/phony-page-count-politics.html#comment-269896

SURE ya did...

DL

Are you accusing our host of lying? There is snark and there is rude and offensive.

Ping would love the Dems to try and cave to the R's but I don't think that will happen. The R's will never cave to the point Ping wants.

Knowing Craig.. for a long time.. I have no doubt he read the entire document. I do wonder why it was a "good read"... I would call it something different.

So Mr Crawford - would you expand on the how such a Bill equates to a "good read"

yo Horsedooty..
I do not want anyone caving..
I would like to see a creative approach that uses incentives, innovation and real Healthcare reform.

But that is asking to much.

And careful - When none of us can pay the bill in a few years... We will have no need for Healthcare reform.

can you say KneeHow... OK sound it out - not the correct spelling - obviouls

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/11/phony-page-count-politics.html#comment-269903

Ping, The only reason that will happen is because the house is handing over the whole of the population to the insurance companies and allowing them two plus years of pocket book rape and gouging before the limitation that they must actually spend 85% of the premiums on health care takes effect.

Ping, after watching Boner today talk about "that thing" I see no reason to try and work with Boner and his Boneyard guys.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/11/phony-page-count-politics.html#comment-269900

...god forbid!

Anyone watching CSPAN today is probably considering moving to Canada tomorrow.

Canada: Great health care and sane Canadians ... what a concept.

Posted by: dark-lord-bloggingham.myopenid.com | November 7, 2009 4:07 PM : "Congress should start writing legislation in classical Latin (granted, "pig" would be more appropriate) to make it as inaccessible as possible to the average citizen."

Post porcus ergo propter porcus.

Cui bono ?

Jamie -- did you see those GOP assholes shouting down women trying to talk about women's health issues?

You're a bad one, Boehner Grinch.

When I look at him, I can't help seeing Mister Grinch's brown cousin, Boehner Grinch.

If Ping can get his guys to meet the Dems half way, there might be some reason to try to be more conciliatory. So far, the R's want the Dems to move toward them. I don't think it is gonna happen.

oh please, as a veteran of reading and understanding Hillary's health care plan, which actually made a lot of sense, this one is a no brainer by comparison.

here are the basics:

1. The coverage mandate. By 2013, everyone would have to have insurance or face a penalty tax of 2.5 percent for a portion of their income. Exemptions would be given for those with a very low income.

2. The business mandate. By 2013, companies would be required to offer coverage to employees or make a contribution to a pool that offers coverage.

3. The public option. By 2013, a government health insurance plan would be offered and run by the Department of Health and Human Services. Rates would be negotiated with providers but couldn’t be lower than Medicare payment rates.

4. Pre-existing conditions. Insurance companies would be prohibited from denying or reducing coverage based on pre-existing conditions.

5. Abortion. The essential benefits package could not include coverage for abortions, except in cases of rape, incest or threat to the woman’s life. Insurance companies could offer abortion coverage, but could only use private premium dollars (without any subsidies) for that coverage.

6. Prescription drug coverage. The so-called doughnut hole that requires Medicare recipients to pay for prescription drugs up to a point before coverage is reinstated would be phased out by 2019.

7. Taxes. In 2010, a tax surcharge of 5.4 percent would be imposed on incomes of $500,000 for individuals or $1 million for households. A 2.4 percent excise tax would be imposed on the sale or lease of medical equipment.

More at http://www.congress.org/

Those who oppose the merits of this health overhaul should oppose the merits on substantive ground, instead of indulging in baby talk slogans that undercut their arguments.

http://www.taylormarsh.com/

"Selling Out Women’s Civil Rights"

"Pres. Obama opened the door to sell us out when he decided to put the Hyde Amendment in the budget, something Bill Clinton never did. But Mr. Obama didn’t stop there. During the stimulus fight, at the first sign of displeasure, our President personally asked that contraceptives be taken out. Now the President seems ready to finish the job, with Democrats poised to help him do it."

"Right now every woman who values her civil rights should understand how the gay community feels. Because the Democrats look poised to sell us out too.

If I was in the House I’d vote to kill the Stupak-Ellsworth amendment. But if it passes and it’s in the final legislation, I’d vote to kill the bill.

Civil rights begin with autonomy over our own body. If we don’t have that we have nothing.

But at least Mr. Obama and the Democrats will be closer to their “historic health care win.” That they did it on the backs of women’s civil rights will be a footnote, though some of us will never forget."

Hey all,
I know exactly what Taylor's talking about.I can't believe how easy it is for some Democrats to sell us out...

I agree, Tony. This is one ugly sellout.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/11/phony-page-count-politics.html#comment-269919

Patsi,
I just don't get it?? Women make up over 50% in the US,how can this happen,men mostly men, deciding to deny woman's reproductive coverage..Democrats too..Damn it I didn't think Dems get lower than robbing Florida and Michigan voter's of their votes,but this is OBSCENE...

Tony and Patsi, I understand your point of view, but the reality is that Pelosi had to make a deal with the Catholic Bishops to get this thing done. It was the price to pay for the biggest expansion in health insurance for half a century.

"but the reality is that Pelosi had to make a deal with the Catholic Bishops to get this thing done" CC

The Catholic Church should have its tax exempt status removed

Here's what the Bishops wrote to members of Congress after the deal. I'm sorry, but I think it was worth it:

"Passing this amendment allows the House to meet our criteria of preserving the existing protections against abortion funding in the new legislation," the Bishops wrote in a letter to individual members. "Most importantly, it will ensure that no government funds will be used for abortion or health plans which include abortion."

The group goes on to say, "The Conference will remain vigilant and involved through this entire process to assure that these essential provisions are maintained and included in the final legislation. With this important step forward we hope the House can come together and finally move forward essential reform which truly will protect the life, dignity, conscience and health of all. We also hope the Senate will follow the example of the House and include these essential safeguards in their version of health care reform legislation."

Stupak:

Political Action Committee for Stupid People.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/11/phony-page-count-politics.html#comment-269921

Craig,
I no your correct,especially looking at the bigger picture,but damn am I disappointed...I know I will never again register as a Democrat,talk about shattered illusions....I'll vote for Dems but not because of party...

The bottom line is that Pelosi and Obama now have the Catholic Bishops, AARP and other powerful interests on board for the first major step toward universal health insurance in 50 years. Me thinks the GOP sloganeers are losing this fight.

What is truly disgusting is that long before Roe v. Wade, rich women got a D&C when necessary from their well paid physicians. Poor women went to back rooms to get an abortion from some illegal provider.

With this bill, the rich women can still get a D&C or legal abortion (same thing different name) but the poor women are sentenced to the back alleys because feds can't pay for their medical care.

Republicans love children before they are born. Afterwards they are on their own.

While I have often been clear about my issues with the Catholic hierarchy and the Pope in particular, let's remember that the Bishops consider universal health insurance a moral imperative. Giving them what they need to get on board could get this thing done.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/11/phony-page-count-politics.html#comment-269928

Jamie,
So true! I'm glad you gave examples,it makes it even clearer the injustice that's been done...

Craig

On that I agree. Now if they would speak out against over population and encourage smaller families I would respect them more.

Rhythm may not work all the time, but at least speak out in favor of using it.

Jamie, I predict that in our lifetime there will be a Pope who changes all that. Give them time. Meanwhile, accept Pelosi's deal to get the Bishops on board for this bill.

Good news, Health Insurers! You got 47 million new customers.

I hope the Bishops are registered lobbyists

And let's not forget that Ted Kennedy, with whom I also had issues, did the deal with the Vatican in his dying days for backing health reform. There's some big stuff going on here folks. The Catholic Bishops are central to making this happen. They needed this abortion amendment, which is really but a fig leaf, doesn't actually change much from existing law. I'm telling ya, it's worth it for winning the end game.

Tony,

My brother was telling me that he ( his Parish) received many news letters on how t he Catholic Bishops wanted them to talk up the "drop contraceptives' angle.

It always comes down to religion, always will. There is no greater evil that must be overcomed imo. The Catholic Church, is a country on to its own...the President is the Pope....and we pay for them thru the tax exempt privileges that they enjoy.

They have been discriminating against women since (all religions) Abraham.!! It completely amazes me that they defend it so strongly. Keep watching, and see if there isn't some sort of connection to religion, on almost any problem. It is almost always about the one thing that unites them all...Abortion....My stupid brother once blamed Obama's administration on the 14 mil. abortions that he said went on in China. I laughed at him, and said that they probably were accidents..they all had defective contraceptives...HA!

Not a good bi-partisan bill; unless there are loop-holes no? are we going to find out; just like we did with the Bankers?

"The Catholic Church should have its tax exempt status removed"

Agreed, KGC.

How many seats in the Congress does the Catholic Church have?

...that is to say, "why is the Catholic Church's support relevant"?

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/11/phony-page-count-politics.html#comment-269932

Craig

Can we put a hit out on Benedict?

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/11/phony-page-count-politics.html#comment-269939

DL

The practical answer to that question is that at present the Democrats own the Hispanic vote, but abortion could be a deal breaker because of the Catholic church.

The Republicans want the Hispancs and because of the stance about "illegal immigration" are driving them away . The legal ones have illegal relatives. Abortion is the issue that could make a difference in some districts.

"How many seats in the Congress does the Catholic Church have? -- Posted by: dark-lordbloggingham.myopenid.com"

there are 131 Catholics in the House, and 25 in the Senate, more than enough to matter. Just ask Pelosi, who is one.

Listening to the House debate. If the South secedes again, let them

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/11/phony-page-count-politics.html#comment-269944

God, I hope not. Southern folks cain't live on snow 'n ice.

And there are a few of us down here are progressives. Unfortunately, we can't yell loud enough to drown out the wingnuts.

" Obama To Dems: GOP Will Attack Regardless Of How You Vote "

PS should have said, progressive southerners would have to move north if the South rises again--

Nah. Tennessee left last and came back first last time. Think we learned our lesson.

Back to lurkin'--

How many Catholics in the greater population ?

Wiki -

The 2008 Yearbook of American and Canadian Churches, a statistical listing of major religious bodies published by National Council of Churches, reports over 67,515,016 registered members of the Roman Catholic Church.

Somewhere around 22 % ?

33 % 0f the House is Catholic
25 % of the Senate is Catholic

22 % of the country is Catholic

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/11/phony-page-count-politics.html#comment-269946

Bob,
Thanks for that.I'm glad to here the President said that!

here=hear
I'm getting tired,time for bed...

Patsi.......now i'm drunk..........

"What's wrong with 2,000 pages to overhaul one-sixth of the economy?"

Conservatives most successful campaigns to their constituents always appeal to anti-elitism. That includes anything to do with readin', writin' , and 'rithmetic.

Anyone know the identity of the Republican who voted for passage of the health care bill? House just passed it...220 to 215.

Never mind. It was just announced...Joseph Cao of Louisiana.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/11/phony-page-count-politics.html#comment-269933

Looks like we got us a bi-partisan health care reform bill passed the House. :-^)

Looks like we got us a bi-partisan health care reform bill past the House. :-^)

Oh Craig ! I love it when you talk tough.