Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

there are a czars and b-czars
and czars that go woo hoo

A "czar"-type position is just a way to kick-down a sweet-ass gov't job to a friend.. That's all.

Wonderful Conversation.

I'm sure Faux News loves using the word "czar" for other reasons. Stoking the fire on the old, cold war.

Really, it's lost its meaning. Isn't that why it was used here in the first place; to give the appearance of complete power over an area. Secretary, etc., just doesn't cut it. Car Czar can stay because it rhymes, but it's time for a change to Grand Poobah or something.
--
Watching the clips from the mall rally this weekend, it's interesting to see how Faux has helped folks spin this into commie, Muslim hate speech. They are going to incite a riot if they don't reign it in.

ps - Craig, Did you intend for that to look like a tin-foil hat, because it does. : )

Well, y'all, down home we needin' a FLU czar--news just in that the middle school here in town and at least one school in Greenback, some fifteen miles up Hwy 411, will be closed the rest of the week because so many students are turning up in the nurse's office with flu symptoms, including fever. Not sure yet whether it's regular or swine.

And so it begins--Do know this: flu shots are not yet available in this part of the knobs. Mom's doctor always calls the minute they come in (Mom has RA and COPD and is one of the first on the list) and she hasn't called yet--

If you hear of anybody in TN getting arrested for assault cause she's in an infernal Wally World sprayin' everybody who comes in reach with Lysol, you'll know it's me.

53 Trajan 13th Roman emperor (98-117)

Back when a czar was a czar.

craig, like the video but you need czar background music:
"czarina, czarina" for carole browner
some others come to mind for the following but will leave it to your imagination for whom they apply
"twinkle twinkle little czar"
"don't let the czars get in your eyes"
"czars fell on alabama"

"this could be the czar of something big"

steve and eydie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHDmkv2gpX0

Citing "a university," Glenn Beck claimed on Monday that 1.7 million people had attended the anti-reform protest in Washington, D.C. on Saturday.

He couldn't remember the name of the school, for some reason. "We had a university, I think it's University of -- I don't remember which university it is -- um, look at the pictures. And you know, they can do body space and calculate, 1.7 million, that crowd was estimated."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/15/glenn-beck-17-million-att_n_287136.html

University of -- I don't remember

Beck's school , ............... he got a B.S. in B.S.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/were-all-czars-here.html#comment-260302

a fallen czar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeBUjgOItRk

A project for the PM: rewriting the lyrics--;)

good thing we're all czars - I know I'd never pass a confirmation hearing.

Ms. Cracker -
Another example ......

State expands weatherization assistance
Money is from the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act approved by Congress in February. It is administered by the Northwest Colorado Council of Governments.

http://themountainmail.com/main.asp?SectionID=4&SubSectionID=4&ArticleID=17282

Great video Craig, MSNBC really should run them at regular intervals. They rerun everything else for days, at least your bits are humorous.

This goes back to that bit of the RW naming things so that they don't have to do any critical thinking by actually informing anyone about what these people do in their job functions.

I happen to agree that it is probably padding the payroll with your buddies so the question becomes are they doing anything useful?

Maybe they could get Javert to hunt down the Czars

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0xi5FqIefE

Texas farmers can seek federal drought help

http://www.kcbd.com/global/Story.asp?s=11133548

I'm sure Faux News loves using the word "czar" for other reasons. Stoking the fire on the old, cold war.

Actually, glenn beck thinks this is another sign we are becoming russia. I watched that maniac over the August break to watch him toss his poison out over amerika (my spelling). The scary thing is that this guy does have a license for a concealed gun and brags about it on the show. I guess he needs that kind of weapon to protect him from people who just want to hit him upside the head! He really has one of those faces...

My rep from the 19th congressional dist. is the ranking member of the house ag committee , he is 46th on the list of richest congressional members.
I can assure you he is a tea bagger ........ and will not oppose this federal money. ( federal drought help )

http://randy.house.gov/index.html

On June 12, 2009, Neugebauer signed on as a co-sponsor of H.R. 1503, the bill introduced as a reaction to conspiracy theories which claimed that U.S. President Barack Obama is not a natural born U.S. citizen. -Wiki

Bush seemed to feel considerable unease with the choice of McCain as well. I think he liked Romney best. (The rumor was that so did Karl Rove.) My guess was the president hadn’t so easily forgotten the endless slights he’d suffered, but there was little he could do. To him, McCain’s defeat would be a repudiation of the Bush administration, so McCain had to win... I was once in the Oval Office when the president was told a campaign event in Phoenix he was to attend with McCain suddenly had to be closed to the press...

“If he doesn’t want me to go, fine,” the president said. “I’ve got better things to do.”

Eventually, someone informed the president that the reason the event was closed was that McCain was having trouble getting a crowd. Bush was incredulous—and to the point. “He can’t get 500 people to show up for an event in his hometown?” he asked. No one said anything, and we went on to another topic. But the president couldn’t let the matter drop. “He couldn’t get 500 people? I could get that many people to turn out in Crawford.” He shook his head. “This is a five-spiral crash, boys.”

http://men.style.com/gq/features/landing?id=content_10957

This book is really something -
" My youthful exuberance cooled as I moved up the rungs of power. On Capitol Hill, I worked for a congressman who “misremembered” basic facts, such as the “Eisenhower assassination.” I worked for a senator who hid from his own staff. I was assigned to coach Republican senators on how to reach out to the media and entertainment world. (You try explaining The View to a group of 65-year-old white Republican men.)"

ME TALK PRESIDENTIAL ONE DAY
http://men.style.com/gq/features/full?id=content_10957

Posted by: Colorado Bob | September 15, 2009 1:56 PM : "Texas farmers can seek federal drought help"-

Just say, 'NO !' to commie agriculture. If they can't make it, lett them fail. That's common sense, tough lovin', straight shootin', right wingin', God-fearin' republican policy.

All together now, "Hey, all you Texas farmers, use your own bootstraps !"

Max, sanctions my ass. If I remember my UN procedures correctly, it takes only 1 vote to defeat a UNSC resolution (such as ithe imposition of sanctions against a country). Russia's vote would not only block a sanctions resolution, considering its proximity to Iran and presumed opposition to sanctions, it would likely eviscerate any sanctions that might be imposed by simply trading with Iran.

"Name one country besides South Africa in Africa that represents anywhere near the threat Iran does?"

To us? South Africa? Are you kidding? But nonetheless, because we put troops in the region? None. But then Iran is not in Africa either, so what's your point? The continental borders in the middle east don't mean shit. But expand it to the discussion to the middle east - well, Taliban and AQ fighters in Iraq and Afghanistan, with whom we've been at war more or less for 7 years. And lest we And as far as threats to their own people, hmm, lessee, Sudan, Kenya, Ethiopia, Uganda, Eritrea, Somalia, Sierra Leon ... the list goes on...

"Perhaps the spector of war is the only thing that will make Iran blink." Really, are you out of your mind? Do you learn nothing from history? You are condoning a war with Iran (I assume you aren't suggesting an idle threat) after two debacles with weaker enemies with fewer friends in that region that have tied us down for 7 years with no end in sight? I think you ARE out of your mind.

" He was bald with glasses and had a scratchy voice that sounded like he had a thousand-dollar bill caught in his throat. "

All good comedy is rooted tragedy .

XR

How can corporate agribusiness buy up forclosed land cheap if the family farms don't go broke first?

Czar, Tsar, Caesar, Kaiser, Pharaoh, Sultan, Shah, Rajah, Khagan, Khan, Cham, Inca. Anyone ever meet a nice one ?

The quotable Kaiser Ferdinand V :

" Ich bin der Kaiser, und ich will Knoedel ! "

"I am the Emperor, and I demand dumplings ! "

How much more authoritative can one get ?

We tried to move on to something else. But the president wouldn’t let go. He was stuck on the Phoenix event. At one point, he looked off into space and said to no one in particular, “What is this—a cruel hoax?”

Chris and I were tickled by that comment. For weeks, we would look for ways to use it. “They are out of Diet Pepsis at the mess. What is this, a cruel hoax?” I went to dinner with a friend. “They don’t have cheeseburgers?” I said, looking at the menu. “What is this, a cruel hoax?”

http://men.style.com/gq/features/full?id=content_10957&pageNum=8

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/were-all-czars-here.html#comment-260324

Crawford and Lard on the bar stool .

SAME TIME TOMORROW
Life in High Definition

http://seanholton.wordpress.com/2009/09/15/life-in-high-definition/#comments

Imus Czar :)

Really George W Bush abused this same practice, let them go through the Senate. It gives the Senators something to grandstand over :)

Anyone heard any Baucus news?

Nice Pole Craig ;)

Jamie,

I think that these gimmee jimmies are the Big Farm corporations of which you speak : multi-square mile, Texas attitude, farming operations that employ field hands they smuggle across the border. If they liked bushcheney, muckain, bailey, cornyn, so much,let 'em go under. Then, maybe some little guy can buy his old place back at a deep discount.

During the Great Panic & Depression of '93, the multi-square mile corporate mega-farms that had dominated Western MN, ND, SD, and NE went under. They were replaced by farmers who tilled 40 -160 acre plots. We might all profit if the small farmer (a square mile) could make a living again.

Loosely related to the OT:

After The Fire - Der Kommissar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Guvo7gUdUnE

and since youtube suggested it, here's a much better song:

The Clash - Rock The Casbah
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAkfHShATKY&feature=related

There's a "non-partisan" Primary here today.

I've gotta go vote against all the republicans now. 'Bye.

Hi NP, I think you misunderstood some of what I said.

NP,

1. I meant South Africa is the only African nation that COULD represent a threat to us like Iran interms of what they COULD do. I never suggested South Africa wasn't our friend. And of course, Iran is far more a threat in many ways than NK as I explained.

2. All my links above clearly discussed the inevitablity should Iran walk away from negotiations, of selective strikes on nuclear infrastructure coupled with very tough sanctions. If you are shocked by such possibilities I can see why you were against Hillary. And of course, you failed to hear Obama's hawkish views (spoken at key political moments). FACT? As our intelligence community finally concluded this year, Iran stopped enrichment and weapon design after sanctions and our invasion of Iraq. Their restart came in 2007 when the regime saw Obama coming and hailed him the new American Gorby. They opened new facilities, produced surprising centrifuge designs and rush work on delivery systems. The same group that uncovered the Iranian program points to new facilities for weapon design as well as housing areas for North Korean scientitsts. AQ Khan has recently revealed his role in the Iranian program as Pakistan lifts restrictions on his movement and communications.

If you read my links and not Democratic talking points you can see how the administration is ramping up the big stick. They have now concluded only a credible threat can move Iran. Much of Iran's present resistance to resolving terror and nuclear problems stems from their perception that Obama is weak and will follow his political base into face saving measures and eventual retreat.

In fairness to Obama, he is trying to counter that preception yet your view reflects many on the Left who think negotiations from a position of weakness and bluf can lead to resolution. The consequence of inaction will likely lead to great conflagration later on after spurring more nuclear programs, clandestine activities, illegal shipping and steroidial growth of the criminal/terrorist network now delivering materials, money and operatives globally.

Your take is very different than the bipartisan report above. It does not deal with any claim of existential threat or the cost of capitulation. It over looks the tremendous cost of effective terrorism coupled with dangerous weapons. It reminds of that 2007 Scott Ritter YouTube where he laughs at the possibility Iran could amass enrich uranium and build a bomb anytime soon.

Now you read what Burns has said on the subject. Are you saying the administration is lying? Are you uncertain why Obama would be rushing the delivery of 12 of the world's largest conventional bomb?

We can touch this later rather than to spoil the thread.

As for Czars. Obama is quite funny. He offered a rather sharp critique of Bush's notion of the unitary principle and scoffed at the administration's controlling policy. Instead, he has set up an alternative power structure in Czars who are certain to run afoul of Constitutional determinations of the levers of power. An environment Czar? What the hell is the head of the EPA? Mini czar? A jobs Czar? Who is the Secretary of Labor? And of course these Czars cross Congressional power. I see the same game in envoys v the State Department. And a really important Cyber Czar is a big shoe to fill.

In any case, I think this was a poor idea and the use of Czar even more damaging to perception. It is clearly a problem for accountability beyond the legal problems. And many of the picks (not all approved by Congress) offers up some real characters........

We're all czars?

I want to be Ivan the terrible.

What about that czarette, Anastasia--or was she merely a pretender like so many of those around Washington?

This is off-topic (we never do that here, right) but did anyone else notice that Craig's kitchen is the size of a large envelope?

But he does have a balcony, and trees (that he apparently does not like).

The Russian term Czar is derived from the Roman word "Caesar." (I got that from the History Channel.)

So, the literal meaning of Czar is a murderous wannabe tyrant bent on destroying the Republic.

Yeah. We need more of those.

Well, Max, we disagree. I don't read Dem talking points - and I never have. I supported Hillary btw, but don't agree with everything she has to say or her views on every subject. I disagree with any bullshit military threat against Iran - we aren't going to war against them. South Africa? Didn't it supposedly dismantle its nuclear military capability in 1991?

But I have to go now. Have a good evening.

nash, re craig's kitchenette, it's just as well. remember that horrible stew thing he did last year? just think what mischief he would do in an alton brown workshop.

http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/templateC07.php?CID=477

For NP

"Ich bin der Kaiser, und ich will Knoedel !"

xr, thanks for the translation. are you sure he wasn't boasting about canoodling?

NP, I said once again that South Africa was the only advanced African nation that could muster a serious security threat in Africa but I never said SA was an enemy or planning such a move.

Hillary, more than Obama made a big stick a serious aspect of her national security policy. You say you supported Hillary, but her former remarks are far more in line with my thinking than your "military threats are bullshit stuff". Maybe you should start beating your anti-war drum louder these next 60 days. Ahmadinejad is counting on it.......

Take care, we'll beat this out later....

"Meanwhile, the arms deal with Taiwan, which is composed mostly of F-16 fighter jets, remains in limbo. The Taiwan government has been waiting for but has not received any response from the new White House, diplomatic sources told The Cable.......

Taiwan's President Ma Ying-jeou has made four transits through the United States, during which he lobbied for the F-16 sale to sympathetic political figures such as Arizona Sen. John McCain. Part of Taiwan's argument is the estimated 4,000-5,000 jobs that the sale might create at the Lockheed Martin factory in Texas.

But Taiwan has been no match for the counter-lobbying from the Chinese side, including a direct warning on the matter to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton during the U.S.-China Strategic and Economic Dialogue in Washington in July, the sources said."

http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/

Ree

The last thing we want is more people for the Senate to "advise and consent". The huge percentage of jobs unfilled now is because they can't get the ones done that they are supposed to be doing now. That was true for Bush and it is true now for Obama. It is one of the reasons for the growth in the "Czars" whose real titles are Director of whatever. Someone has to do the work until the "official" appointee can get approved.

We either need to shrink the role of the Federal government which isn't likely under any administration no matter what they say, change some of these positions to civil service (again not likely because new parties coming in like to name their own people) or make fewer of them subject to confirmation.

At the rate it is going now, many of these jobs won't be filled before the end of the first term and by that time it will be election mode again.

Good post Patd. We are seeing a full spectrum press of US foreign policy. Soon we will have to grade the results, see what allies are angry and what little adversaries have changed. I do not envy Obama's options, but he has fires across the globe.

North Korean sales to Burma. Chinese sales to Sudan. Russian sales to Chavez. Iran gifts to Hamas and Hizb'Allah. Chinese sales to the Taliban. US sales to India and Columbia. We are seeing a strategic positioning by global players...........

Clinton shrunk government although he is second behind Obama in Czarness. You didn't answer the question as to why Czars after department heads have been picked? Instead of less government we have redunancy which is for what present reason?

Will there be a Czar of Czars? At least Cheney was more efficient. He did all this Czarness by himself for a fraction of the cost and with about the same accountability.

George W Bush is the czarest

Also Rangel said today that Obama's speech has made getting a healthcare deal harder. Even Obama's suspect number on the ten year cost is now presenting tremendous problems and Rangel again brings up the gorilla of a tax increase he is loath to push.

It would be fair to say that because Obama once again made shaky claims and did not lay to rest critical objections, the Wilson flap allowed these problems to surface in the subsequent debate. The WH became defensive as claims were again questioned. Obama then deferred any Afghanistan decision, offered mixed comments on Iranian snubs, got into another spat with Israel and rushed some new spins onto his website.

I did think Obama was reasonable in his Wall Street Speech. Although I suspect he has some tricks up his sleeve, he did make a decent case for regulation which ought to have been the leading header for ALL reform. This is his advantage. P.S. his last speech highlighted the stupidity of not making it sooner. I will never stand in the way of a good learning curve.

Kudos Obama.....on a rhetorical level

Czardom, czaracious, czartopian, czarista, czarocracy, czardacious,.......

I appoint myself TOBACCO CZAR. Oh, it's illegal now.

I am now TRANSPORTATION czar. No motorized vehicular traffic to be used if you are able to bicycle or walk to where you are going. Penalty: two flat tires to be administered by the authority's goon squad.

I am now the medical czar. We now have single-payer insurance. Don't like it? get the fU(l< out then!

Posted by: patd | September 15, 2009 4:01 PM
: "xr, thanks for the translation. are you sure he wasn't boasting about canoodling?"

Ferdy was a very simple man. He liked playing with toys and fixing clocks. A doctor who examined him before he married the 6th daughter of the Duke of Savoy, wrote that Ferdy was very unlikely to sire a child. I think that may have been a matter of either disinterest in canoodling or other interpersonal whoopdeedoo, or a matter of wishful thinking. Poor Ferdy was the product of fairly advanced Hapsburg genetic experimentation, although he was not nearly as grotesque as some rulers that the Spanish Hapsburgs bred. At any rate, the doctor proved to be correct; Ferdy did nor reproduce.

Following the 1848 Revolution, and Ferdy's abdication, his nephew Franz Joseph took over for him, and ran the Empire until 1916 - 68 years. By 1916, the Empire begun by Charlemagne 1,102 years before had less than 3 years left to live.

Posted by: Nash2.0 | September 15, 2009 3:13 PM :
"I want to be Ivan the terrible."

Impossible task for a nice guy like you. However, if you work at it very diligently, you could rise to become Ivan the Pretty Bad.

I always got a kick out of the names of the Ragnarsson brothers. Ivar the Boneless and Sigurd Snake in the Eye, Swedish/Geatish, etc. Kings.

Erik Bloody Axe is kinda cool, too.

These monikers must have made life hell for their press sec'ys. PR guys wrote in poetry and were called Skalds. Maybe something to do with boiling in oil ?

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/were-all-czars-here.html#comment-260354

My favorite ones were Sweyn Forkbeard and Harald Bluetooth.;)

As for skalds and boiling in oil, pretty close. "Skald" has the same root as "scold" which can be like being boiled in verbal or written oil--:D

Craig,

I liked the video, but the term "pea on a pumpkin" comes to mind.

Glenn Beck is gonna speak at Michigan State this week. This has prompted state Democrats to boycott the event where he is the keynote speaker. I remember from those NBA telecasts that Mike Fratello was the Czar of the telestrator.

This will drive the Religious Right just nuts.

John Marcotte, a writer who runs the site BadMouth.net, is collecting signatures to get the "California Protection of Marriage Act" on the ballot. If passed divorce would be illegal in California.

Read the whole article at link below.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/15/john-marcotte-california_n_287796.html

Who's czary now?

mommie, mommie, I dont wanna be a czar.

Shut up and punish your servants.

When you wish upon a Czar....

They czar who we thought they were!

Both sides pander to the lowest common denominator - unfortunately - because that is what works.

Dems would rather cast the GOP as racist war-mongering rich fat cats that would rather people die on the streets.

Just as the right calls the "liberals" a bunch of pussies that love the environment more than babies.

The pols usually resort to this when they don't have a good point on the issues.

Nevertheless, there are legitimate critiques and/or concerns re: healthcare.

Most of all is how it will be paid for since we are just getting out of the ditch of the so-called "great recession" because people spent more money than they were bringing in.

The insurance industry is totally a racket. But I am for reform first before getting the govt (i.e., us) on the hook for a bill that is beyond calculation.

The point is insurance as non-profit industry - so that detached CEO's do not make millions while people die from being denied treatments that cost less that his 16 year-old daughter's new Benz.

That does not require that it be govt run. I say keep the private insurance industry. Regulate the hell out of them so that a greater percentage of the money they take in goes back to patients and doctors.

And there should be a panel. Yes a fucking panel Sarah. One made up of doctors, experts, reps from insurance cos., and whoever else - that make sure the insurance and healthcare industries are ran efficiently.

There needs to be a standardization of the best practices. If we can't trust the govt leaders to talk to the experts, study the issues and come up with the best ideas - than what the hell do we have them for.

Are we talking about the czars here at tm.? I just got in and checked today's thread...and can see that Chloe did not keep them happy. CB what was the burr in the saddle bs about? In the past all of these gals have had mild disagreements ( and some not so mild--we just had one about the professor and the cop...but those were indies right?) before...I kinda like the spirited ones that KGC gives Jack, and some others that do the same...

Jaime and I often have one of these; and can't remember you or anyone saying that to her, me: I have them in my ass, thats why im always in a bad mood.... What I saw, was that there was a discussion that was being taken care of by the two people involved...it was kinda mild from what usually might go on here.

We have to get past the group thinking and find out what the other side thinks about things....just saying.

ps. I think that both the czars of the R's and the D's are about the some...with the R's pulling ahead with Bush 43...but a close race....

The gov't needs czar insurance.

Well RATS!! I turned on KO and Comcast decided to take a vacation ... somebody must have pressed the wrong buttons. Hope Craig gets a copy posted tomorrow.

call the cable czar........

Solar,

In case you missed this announcement both Israel and Hamas were cited for war crimes from the recent conflict by UN investigation group. Israel came in for blame due to the use of phosphorus and Hamas for the close to 10000 missles fired into Israel in the last 8 years.

It makes interesting reading.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aezwHhosYEzA

Jamie,

Thanks, They both deserve it....they both are killing beautiful innocents....but a slap on the hand won't stop netenyahoooo did you see that he flipped the bird to obama,,,said that he was not about to stop the new settlement houses...there are a lot of UN investigations that should be reported about....but at any rate...they both suck......not the people,,,the ones doing the killing-that is

President Carter is great. His remarks to Tom Brokaw regarding the anti-Obama crowd mostly opposing him because he is black is on target.

The lack of quality of the anti-Obama forces may force be to be more supportive of him.

Comcast came back on. Hope Craig is in the latter part of the show.

Beck has got a Ph.D. in BS

Olbermann just cited Wassamatta U from Rocky and Bullwinkle. I wonder if he remembers their star football players: Rimsky and Korsakov. :-)

http://slatest.slate.com/id/2228400/entry/1

Now would the author say Obama is a liar? Well, isn't that exactly what the author of the article above is saying?

I think many here whether moderate or extreme would agree that Obama plays it every way he can. He played opposite sides on immigration with a yes and no on strong verification. He plays both sides on energy, Patriot Act, Unitary principle, healthcare, foreign policy etc. What has always rubbed me the wrong way is how inherently unprincipled and disingenuous this is. I know most politicians do this, but it seems particularly agrravating when it comes from those professing the higher light of honesty.

Obama certainly was on target with his twitter remark of jackass in describing Mr. West. The bigger diversion was the House rebuking of Wilson with just two Democrats making the case. Pelosi said nothing and those suggesting racism steered clear of the floor. The irony of course is Wilson claiming the whole episode has diverted attention from healthcare. Obama let it rest but Democrats couldn't help themselves.

Maybe it was to divert attention from ACORN. I see no apology from anyone for the attacks I got when I lambasted ACORN. Obama never once admitted he saw some systemic problems with his former organization. I love ACORN's response in saying the tapes were doctored.

NY is going after ACORN big time.

Jamie, somehow that reminded me of Ren and Stimpy. Those two were hilarious. I wonder what ever happened to those two.....

ACORN spokesman Scott Levenson blasted the video shot at the organization's Brooklyn office, saying the group believes the voices of the couple were dubbed over to alter the conversation and make the interaction appear more objectionable than it may have been.

Acorn is a fairly large organization with lots of employees.

I suppose everyone at Wells Fargo should be fired or thought of as corrupt because a senior vp used a foreclosed home as a party house.

Let's not forget the classic movie "Czar Wars".

Thanks Craig for pointing out how this new book could be the thin edge of the wedge in a Palin-W split. I had not thought of that. I hope the Frat Boy didn't have a nickname for you!

OD I think Democrats are making a huge mistake of rolling out the race card. I said it here before Obama became President that supporters would play that card when Obama faced tough crtics. The card started coming out months ago making the play extremely quick.

As a Jew I know the dangers in playing the bigotry card too soon. It is seen as a defensive ploy to divert attention. Attempts to characterize conservatives as racist whether some are or not will anger them more. It is a kind of bizzaro Rove tactic. Had Rush made the Maher's joke of Michelle "hoeing" her garden, his radio studio would be under attack. Boxer's racial mess in questioning a black before her sub committee was never flushed out. Maher calling America a cracker nation was never decried. Claims be Democratic representitives about the Clinton's racist remarks was appalling.

So I see this move as bad tactics at this point. It is as though Democrats just a half a year into power are trying to inflame political conflict into a race war. Imagine Grassely calling West's remarks the comments of a jackass. Pundits would be screaming racism. Dowd and Olberman ought to hook up. Funny how they would never get along yet they have some serious similarities.

max.....it's not a "race card".......what it is, around here at any rate, is............RACISTS.......there is no doubt about it.....it's in no way hidden when there are no cameras about........to not comment on it is just silly.

Max, They are going to lie-us into war again.......or try to.

IAEA Conceals Evidence Iran Documents Were Forged

The International Atomic Energy Agency says its present objective regarding Iran is to try to determine whether the intelligence documents purportedly showing a covert Iranian nuclear weapons program from 2001 to 2003 are authentic or not. The problem, according to its reports, is that Iran refuses to help clarify the issue.

But the IAEA has refused to acknowledge publicly significant evidence brought to its attention by Iran that the documents were fabricated, and it has made little, if any, effort to test the authenticity of the intelligence documents or to question officials of the governments holding them, IPS has learned.

The agency has strongly suggested in its published reports that the documentation it is supposed to be investigating is credible, because it "appears to have been derived from multiple sources over different periods of time, is detailed in content, and appears to be generally consistent."

IAEA Safeguard Department chief Olli Heinonen signaled his de facto acceptance of the "alleged studies" documents when he presented an organizational chart of the purported secret nuclear weapons project based on the documents at a February 2008 "technical briefing" for member states.

Meanwhile, the IAEA has portrayed Iran as failing to respond adequately to the "substance" of the documents, asserting that it has focused only on their "style and format of presentation."

In fact, however, Iran has submitted serious evidence that the documents are fraudulent. Iran’s permanent representative to the United Nations in Vienna, Ambassador Ali Asghar Soltanieh, told IPS in an interview he had pointed out to a team of IAEA officials in a meeting on the documents in Tehran in spring 2008 that none of the supposedly top-secret military documents had any security markings of any kind, and that purported letters from Defense Ministry officials lacked Iranian government seals.

Soltanieh recalled that he had made the same point "many times" in meetings of the Board of Governors since then. "No one ever challenged me," said the ambassador.

The IAEA has never publicly acknowledged the problem of lack of security markings or official seals in the documents, omitting mention of the Iranian complaint on that issue from its reports. Its May 26, 2008, report said only that Iran had "stated, inter alia, that the documents were not complete and that their structure varied."

But a senior official of the agency familiar with the Iran investigation, who spoke with IPS on the condition that he would not be identified, confirmed that Soltanieh had indeed pointed out the lack of any security classification markings, and that he had been correct in doing so.

http://www.ips.org/institutional

KCG, believe what you want to believe. The ACORN problems are systemic and reports have always come in over the entire country. I could care less what ACORN claims, The FBI which will probably move forward in some cases cand will determine if the tapes were doctored. The fact that the same bullshit happened at more than one office isn't surprising.

Imagine how outraged you would be if a Republican action group told a pimp how he can break the tax laws and escape the police in having illegal under age girls work as prostitutes.

Most people saw the Rodney King tape and convicted the cops in thier minds. Liberals can watch that ACORN sting and make excuses for an organization that boasts they play partisan politics. Congress, largely Democratic wants no part of the organization Obama built his community organizer cred on. And you know how quickly he will throw them under the bus.

Gee, it is nice to see predictions come true. I just hope my bad ones don't.........

Solar, only you would push that story in light of the growing consensus on Iranian progress. Sorry to break it to you, but a number of US allies are furious that the IAEA presented such a water-down report on Iran. They have been threatening to release evidence that shows a far more dangerous program than the IAEA admits. France, Germany, the US, even Japan and Australia say they have damning intel but most refuse to give up national means that would risk present spying. And of course Mossad has no clue what is going on, right?

In fact, based on shared ntelligence, the community of experts has suprisingly shown some unity in their recent recalibration of Iranian progress. Scott Ritter looks foolish in his 2007 rants. More than one watch dog has even identified a nuclear test site Iran is beginning to organize.

Despite your "information", most intelligence groups are now more concerned about how many duplicate and clandestine facilities Iran has built. If your info was right we would not be seeing so many powers including Russia agree that Iran is on the verge of a break out. Added to that is AQ Khan's recent admission that he gave Iran alot of intel as well as supply sources.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/were-all-czars-here.html#comment-260386

Thank you KGC!! I would like to associate myself with that remark.

We need to stop defining organizations and political parties by their most extreme or irresponsible elements.

You're welcome Warren.

And by the way, I have no problem with sex workers and their agents as long as no one is being forced and no violence is in involved.and everyone gets a living wage.

Why not legalize prostitution? The fake journalists posed as a prostitute because of the sensational value. All the Acorn people were trying to do was find housing for a low income couple who had a sketchy source of income. The whole thing stinks.

IPS, now that's a great source and the article does not make a case that any documents are in fact frauds. Our intel is also not based on those documents alone. Iran has had substantial time to open up their program and refuses to do so. They also denied Khan gave them anything which Khan refutes. NY prosecutors have evidence of Iran trying to import banned technology via a Chinese shipping company.

I suppose you think the Iranian funded Syrian reactor Israel flatten is a big lie. And what reason would there be for former Russian military telling the Press they are very concerned that Iran is closer to the bomb than the West thinks and that Russian strategy in this game could backfire. Also it is known the North Koreans and Iranians are working together in their nuclear quests.

So what is IPS really saying? And what proof do they offer for their narraitive?

Max,
U so funny.! How many nuclear bombs are they going to have, how will they deliver them, and do you think that we can afford more contractors for the job? there is more...but no one can hardly hear your war drum beats...

STATEMENT OF STATE’S ATTORNEYS OFFICE FOR BALTIMORE CITY RELATIVE TO THE ALLEGED BALTIMORE ACORN INCIDENT

Baltimore, MD – September 11, 2009 – We have received inquiries from citizens and the media asking whether the Baltimore City State’s Attorneys Office would initiate a criminal investigation for acts allegedly committed at ACORN offices located in Baltimore. The only information received in reference to this alleged criminal behavior was a YouTube video. Upon review by this office, the video appears to be incomplete. In addition, the audio portion could possibly have been obtained in violation of Maryland Law, Annotated Code of Maryland Courts and Judicial Proceedings Article §10-402, which requires two party consent.

If it is determined that the audio portion now being heard on YouTube was illegally obtained, it is also illegal under Maryland Law to willfully use or willfully disclose the content of said audio. The penalty for the unlawful interception, disclosure or use of it is a felony punishable up to 5 years.

Gee I hope Breitbart has deep pockers

Gee I hope Breitbart has deep pockers and not too mention deep pockets.

One, maybe, I will lend them my pick-up,,,the one that has that little bobbing head...the good one....by the way u talk...its like they have us and the neo-con Israeli's surrounded...haha...later

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/were-all-czars-here.html#comment-260394

Well I see that tactic used by Democrats all the time and ACORN has a history of embarrassing and systemic problems. Many people were not shocked by the video tape, yet the cops were lambasted by the King tape. The idea that they just register voters is a sham. I am so tired of watching outrageous ACORN videos. It is not just a few bad apples.

KCG, it it your reasonable opinion that even if the video tape was unlawfully taken, the behavor reveal should not cause Congress and the nation to act? Is that your bottom line? And don't you think Breitbart who you seem to dislike HAS big pockets and is mart enough to know what is on the tape which will be examined?

Solar, your response is funny. They certainly have the means to enable proxies to plant dirty bombs. They have how many secret facilites? Their partners Hizb'Allah recently boasted that their agents are global and have the means to inflict significant damage. I guess you are of the school that waits until faced with the worst option and then looks back to see who to blame. I prefer a more pro active approach. If you read my response to NP, you can see that without the stick, Obama is now uncertain Iran will blink. Funny how that stick works. Your option is to do nothing and perhaps try to explain to your grandchild how the Democrats rolled back the security former generations had helped secure. It kind of makes me think of the South Park where everyone sticks their head in the sand.......

And all others are salivating warmongers...

And don't you think Breitbart who you seem to dislike HAS big pockets and is mart enough to know what is on the tape which will be examined?

deep pockets yes ..smart no

Andrew Breitbart, the conservative Hollywood critic behind Breitbart.com..ah yes that famous journalist

dirty bomb?

LOL
no fatalities,
lots of work for the wife.

Got to love those environmental cleanup jobs, they go on for years.
So why should I be worried, after all it is not like anyone is going to attack Kansas City.
Only riight wing wackos would do that...............

The ever credible Breitbart
Because you'll recall when Rep. Nancy Pelosi mentioned that some health care mini-mob members this summer were showing up with Swastikas and other Nazi symbols, both Breitbart and Goldberg instantly branded Pelosi a liar. There was no way right-wing activists would ever be spotted brandishing that kind of Hitler nonsense.
http://mediamatters.org/blog/200909150020

Max,

Just have to say this.....With you, its all about Hizb' Allah.! you hate them so much that you will make shit up...Hiz, is now an international terrorist organization? I hate them too, and what they do...

Jamie pointed out that they fired 10,000 missiles a little earlier...and the amount of people that have been killed by these m's are less than 50.......how many have been killed on the Palestinian side......lot of hate going on-no? You want to wipe out Iran cos they have proxies.....we don't?

Will anybody be terribly offended if I offer a totally petty but hilarious song to Rep. Fox and others of her ilk?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah0v0lOr698

Craig, you made some excellent points tonight. And at the risk of sounding totally frivolous, you look good in blue. Just sayin'--

Solar

The missles killed less than 50 because the Israelis have been bomb shelters and don't use their citizens as human shields. More Israelis have died or been mutilated by the suicide bombers. Being a brave and resiliant people, they don't let this prevent them from dancing on Saturday night.

Truthfully I consider the actual hatred to be more intense on the Hamas and H'zbollah side. The Israelis are wrong about the settlements and they are responsible for using weapons that shouldn't be used against a civilian population even if those people are there to act as human shields.

If the Arabs and Palestinians ever once lived up to their agreements, I firmly believe the Israelis would withdraw to their original UN manadated borders, but they aren't about to do so if it means that the attacks continue.

Solar
You know this , but max ignores it and others may not. know.
Hizballah is focused on Israel and Lebanese politics and any terrorist activities they may do are in those areas. People like Max get confused and think everybody is Al-qaeda.

Jack

"The missles killed less than 50 because the Israelis have been bomb shelters "

And also because until Israel invaded Gaza they were aiming them at empty fields.

Jack

Sturg -
Max maybe the ghost of James Finnamore Cooper.

I hear that stocks in Corporations that make weapons or more formally known as Merchants of Death are doing quite well.

Maybe the reason Max is so keen on another war is because his retirement is all tied up in those type of stocks.

So whats the death of a few million people or more when he can make a killing in the stock market.

Hiz, is only interested in the local politics...they won't survive anywhere else...both sides are very brave and resilient Jamie...both sides, and I would like to know how one measure hate...the way that I see it; hate is hate...what i measure are casulites,,and how may babies were killed.........I can post an article where the Israli solderer are paid extra to kill pregnant Palestinian women....Now that's hate....for you..up close and personal

Hiz, is only interested in the local politics...they won't survive anywhere else...both sides are very brave and resilient Jamie...both sides, and I would like to know how one measure hate...the way that I see it; hate is hate...what i measure are casulites,,and how may babies were killed.........I can post an article where the Israli solderer are paid extra to kill pregnant Palestinian women....Now that's hate....for you..up close and personal

Democratic leaders in the Senate said last night they may wait until next year to take up climate change legislation, jeopardising the prospect of reaching a deal to avoid the most catastrophic consequences of global warming.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/sep/16/senate-delay-climate-change-legislation

I am reminded of the most bloody - minded loud mouths of the 'anti-war movement' in the 70s. Many were later IDed as Navy and other US intelligence agents, who were trying to foment revolution, just to justify their paychecks. Before we smash ACORN, an organization of feckless naifs when I tried to partner w/them on a couple projects 16 years ago, let's find out how many of the crooks are actually chamber of commerce (etc.) spooks. I remember going to an ACORN meeting and finding a republican bigwig - later the key aide to norm coleman - sitting front and center. I interrupted the meeting and asked if anyony knew this person, and the ACORNers hadn't a clue. I can't deal with that sort of incompetence, so I never went back, but I'll bet that republican did.

" Waiter check please".

fairweather

Just following youtube links from your post
found this

DELMORE BROS-FREIGHT TRAIN BOOGIE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQhQbGz3fy4

Bob
Next year or the year after is good. Look at what they are doing to healthcare.
Maybe in 2 years they can learn to govern.

Jack

Posted by: jamie44.myopenid.com | September 15, 2009 10:17 PM : "If the Arabs and Palestinians ever once lived up to their agreements, I firmly believe the Israelis would withdraw to their original UN manadated borders, but they aren't about to do so if it means that the attacks continue."

I think yhis is about as correct and concise an explanation as I ever heard. Also, since the Arabs bragged in advance of their '48, '67, and '73 attacks, and in advance of the '56 Suez seizure. They have sent hundreds of suicide bombers and launched 10,000 missiles in recent years. In view of the fact that they have been the serial aggressors, I think it is up to the Arabs to make the peace. They repeatedly broke the peace; let them do something to mend it.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/were-all-czars-here.html#comment-260420

Love me some Delmore Bros, Jack. Freight Train Boogie is a favorite. I'm also partial to this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bw0SC68MwjM

;)

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/were-all-czars-here.html#comment-260412

Jack

Tell that to the town that was virtually living underground because of 50 to 80 missles per day only able to do their business between shellings and air raid sirens.

Good night all. Have a great evening.

I sent the email below to K.O. about Colonel Joe Wilson since I have heard nothing mentioned about him still being active duty. That is if he still is active duty or not and if it would make a difference in regards to a court martial.

Dear Mr. Olbermann,

Have you looked into whether or not Colonel Joe Wilson violated the UCMJ and should be subject to a Court Martial under Article 15 or Article 88 for his derogatory comment to President Obama before a televised joint session of Congress and the American People.

I believe he is still under military law since I have heard that he is in the reserves and if this is true then the Military should be filing Court Martial charges against him. Or will this end up like we saw with the Abu Ghraib white wash by the military where only the lower ranks faced consequences for their actions while the upper brass walked away free of any liability what so ever?

Please check on this and do a segment to let those of us who believe he should have been censored and removed from his seat for his actions instead of a reprimand. Since he really paid no price for what he has done it would be fitting if he still is active duty to be striped of all his military benefits including his pay, pension and military insurance.

Thank you for any consideration you may give to this email from me.

Sincerely yours,

Will have too watch and see if anything comes of this.

Posted by: maxtrue | September 15, 2009 9:40 PM
: "Many people were not shocked by the video tape, yet the cops were lambasted by the King tape. The idea that they just register voters is a sham. I am so tired of watching outrageous ACORN videos. It is not just a few bad apples."

Big diff. The LAPD is paid by taxpayers to interdict crime, not create more of it. On the other mitt, ACORN is a private business. Whatever happened to looking out for the taxpayers' money? Waste fraud, and abuse never seems to matter to republicans when it comes to contracts 10,000 TIMES as big with the criminous likes of Xe, blackwater, halliburton, brown, & root, enron, & worldcom.

Mr. Paranoid,

Once an officer, always an officer until - convicted. The Service owns wilson's ass in perpetuity. For practical purposes, however, he seems to be retired.

I have a feeling that your dog don't hunt.

maxtrue,
That 11:43 post of mine was not meant to belittle your point.

The matter rates an investigation, and if it turns out that it is an anti-ACORN hoax, the perp and all the republicans who aided and abetted the fraud and smear ought to be jailed, and all their property forfeited to ACORN. Of course, that would never happen in a scalia/thomas/alito/roberts/kennedy SCOTUS.

If the ACORN folks are guilty, they will get what poor people always get from judicial activists like scalia/thomas/alito/roberts/kennedy - the talons of the law.

Fair's bedtime music:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8dWQvtGAgY&feature=related

Another tear-jerkin' state song--

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/were-all-czars-here.html#comment-260433

xrepublican...

See this link below which clarifies the question of...16. Is he on Inactive service or did he actually resign his commission?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6517908#6519256

If you read this the question becomes is did he retire or did he resign his commission. If the first it might not apply, however if the second he can face a court martial.

xrepublican...

What I mean is if he just retired without resigning his commission than he can face a court martial.

If he retired and resigned his commission then he can not be.

I'm czarry, so czarry
That I wacz czuch a fool,
But love icz blind,
And, I wacz to blind to czee

Wuh huh huh huh, oh yea.

You tell me, they czay
That love icz juczt a game....

Thought for the day :
" Might as well be frank, monsieur. It would take a miracle to get you out of Casablanca. "

well, that was a czary, czary night.

who's czary now?

1387 Henry V king of England (1413-22)
1638 Louis XIV [Sun King] king of France (1643-1715)
1822 Charles S Crocker Pres of Central Pacific Railroad
1924 Lauren Bacall Staten Island, actress (Dark Passage, Key Largo)
1925 B(lues) B(oy) King Itta Bena Miss, blues singer (The Thrill is Gone)
1925 Charlie Byrd guitarist (Desafinado)
1934 Elgin Baylor NBA star (1958-59 Rookie of the Year-Lakers)
1949 Ed Begley Jr LA Cal, actor (Eating Raoul, St Elsewhere, Parenthood)
1949 Susan Ruttan Oregon City Ore, actress (Roxanne-LA Law)

Death which occurred on September 16:
1498 Tomas de Torquemada inquisitor who burned 10,000 people, dies

1620 The "Mayflower" set sail from Plymouth, England, bound for the New World. On board were 48 crew members and 101 colonists (including 35 Separatists from Leiden, Holland, known afterward as the Pilgrims). During the three-month voyage, two passengers died and two babies were born.
1630 Mass village of Shawmut changes name to Boston
1795 British capture Capetown
1810 Hidalgo begins Mexican revolt against Spain (National Day)
1812 Fire of Moscow
1857 Typesetting machine patent
1858 1st overland mail for California
1893 Cherokee Strip, Oklahoma opened to white settlement homesteaders
1908 General Motors founded by William C Durant
1915 US takes control of customs & finances of Haiti for 10 years
1919 American Legion incorporated by an act of Congress
1938 George E.T. Eyston sets world auto speed record at 357.5 MPH
1947 John Cobb sets world auto speed record at 394.2 MPH
1963 "Outer Limits" premiers on TV
1964 "Shindig" premiers
1968 Richard Nixon appears on "Laugh-in"
1971 6 Klansmen arrested in connection with bombing of 10 school buses
1974 Pres Ford announces conditional amnesty for US, Vietnam War deserters
1978 25,000 die in 7.7 earthquake in Iran
1982 Massacre of 1000+ Palestinian refugees at Chatila & Sabra begins
1983 Arnold Schwarzenegger becomes a US citizen
1984 "Miami Vice" premiers

Claude Rains(Captain Louis Renault): Rick, there are many exit visas sold in this café, but we know that you've never sold one. That is the reason we permit you to remain open.
Humphrey Bogart (Rick Blaine):Oh? I thought it was because I let you win at roulette.
Claude Rains(Louis): That is another reason.

Claude Rains(Louis): What in heaven's name brought you to Casablanca?
Humphrey Bogart (Rick): My health. I came to Casablanca for the waters. Captain Claude Rains(Louis):The waters? What waters? We're in the desert.
Humphrey Bogart (Rick): I was misinformed.

"Many were later IDed as Navy and other US intelligence agents, who were trying to foment revolution"

Actually, they were trying to infiltrate the organizations' leadership ranks in an effort to subvert attacks against the government infrastructure.

"1620...On board were 48 crew members ..."

I watched a Discovery Channel blivet on the new super-duper container ships--the ones designed to carry thousand of shipping containers. They mentioned the quarters for the 15 crew members.

Worthwhile scenic fall foliage drives
Get outdoors for these 15 colorful, vivid North American road trips

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32601709/ns/travel-seasonal/

I found myself agreeing with MoJo this morning. Not everyone who disagrees with Prez Obama is doing so out of racism. (Johnathon Alter actually said it better last night.)

I'm not sure who Prez Carter meant to be the audience for his statement. While true that it's definitely a factor out there, I'm not sure it did anything except provide fuel for the left to make sweeping statements about everyone on the other side of issues.

Remember how nasty it got during the primaries, even here? Using race to create an untouchability factor doesn't get rid of racism.

As I said, Johnathan Alter was actually the voice of reason on this issue last night...I actually watched Craig's segment on KO and stuck around for RM for the first time...most of it just seems too one-sided/Faux-ish, though. MSNBC prime time kind of died for me in late 2007.

As for ACORN, it just proves that power/money always requires 3rd-party oversight. As Bill Maher says: People, the problem that won't go away.

Waiting for citizen journalists to prove...oh, crap, what was his name? The original "birther" on this blog...not Fritz....

My impression of a Russian pirate: Czaaarrgh!

Typhoon Choi-Wan Strengthens to Category 5 in Pacific

Sustained winds - 161 mph, waves 39 ft, gusts to 196 mph

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aJmslk92P_3M

Reading over some of the comments, it occurs to me that since we are all rather obsessed with politics and as a result pay a great deal of attention to the 24/7 media outlets of various kinds, it might be a good idea to remember:

There are over 300,000,000 people in the US

About 140,000,000 of them are registered to vote

In 2008 about 125,000,000 of them voted (Approximately 67,000,000 for Obama and 58,000.000 for McCain)

An infintesimal percentage of all those people do anything newsworthy and of those very few rise to the level of actually being run into the ground day after day.as a subject of that coverage. Only a small percentage of those actually have the power to make anything happen in our lives in even a glancing way.

While the conversation is good, there probably isn't any need to get really, really excited because it isn't going to change a darn thing.

Perspective? We're supposed to keep things in perspective?

People, the problem that won't go away.

--bill mahar

yup, yup.........

Broad sweeping statement .

"As for ACORN, it just proves that power/money always requires 3rd-party oversight. As Bill Maher says: People, the problem that won't go away"

Blue,

When it comes to fraud in voter registration and petition signing, I can pretty well guarantee that there is as much on the left and on the right. As to the money spent on Acorn (about $53 million in 15 years) for community activities, I would guess about as much or more was sent to various "religious" charities during Republican administrations.

While a $100 million dollars is a lot for the lottery, it is almost nothing in the US budget. It would cost almost as much if not more to investigate all the waste and by the time you finish, all of the money for both waste and investigation would be gone.

Of course, it would keep a lot of people employed who then pay taxes and put money back into the economy and prevents the unemployment numbers from going even higher.

L.A. engineers are puzzled by uptick in water pipe failures
The sharp rise in 'major blowouts' along L.A.'s underground water delivery system has no clear cause.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-leaks16-2009sep16,0,5742912.story

Salon article on Cleon Skousen (The man who made Glenn Beck)

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2009/09/16/beck_skousen/

http://metocph.nmci.navy.mil/jtwc/warnings/wp1509.gif

The people on ChiChi Jima better hang on to their chichi bandeaux.

"Only a small percentage of those actually have the power to make anything happen in our lives in even a glancing way.

While the conversation is good, there probably isn't any need to get really, really excited because it isn't going to change a darn thing."

Hi Jamie,
You packed a lot of info. into that post, and it really puts things into perspective.

I'd say, more or less what you said, that conversation isn't going to change a thing, but that isn't the point of the conversation anyway. I do think however, that the only way to change things in the big picture is one person at a time. Since we do have control of of our own life, in that way, I think we all 'do' make a difference. Keeping in mind that any little change in the world affects everything else in some unknown way.

Baucus unveiling health bill without GOP on board
"Baucus' approach includes a requirement for individuals to buy insurance, with financial penalties for those who don't. Rather than a mandate for larger businesses to provide coverage for employees, they would be required to defray the cost of any government subsidies for which their employees would qualify.

Release of Baucus' bill sets the stage for what could be a lengthy and contentious drafting and voting session to begin next week, with numerous amendments expected both from the right and from the left. Following that, Democratic leaders in the House and the Senate are aiming for floor action in the fall." http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090916/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_overhaul

CBob et al

Another one of those astronomical things that make you go WOW

http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2009/09/massive-vertical-structures-discovered-towering-above-saturns-rings.html

Chloe

In line with that, the Salon article link I published should probably be sent to everyone you know. For the right wingers to give them a brush acquaintance with the truth and to the left side of the spectrum as ammunition.

Skeleton Found At Roman Site In Britain Mystifies Archaeologists

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090915140924.htm

Just tuned into this on CSPAN

Mayor Greg Nickels (D - Seattle) joins us to discuss energy & climate change efforts

Well worth going to their page later and watching on video link

Rome Was Built In A Day, With Hundreds Of Thousands Of Digital Photos
A new computer algorithm developed at the University of Washington uses hundreds of thousands of tourist photos to automatically reconstruct an entire city in about a day.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090915140928.htm

Titus the Gorilla King, who became the world's most famous mountain gorilla after starring in Dian Fossey's "Gorillas in the Mist" and a BBC documentary, has died in Rwanda at the ripe old age of 35.

Of more immediate concern is the removal of Titus' body from among his adoring group in the Virunga mountains in northwestern Rwanda.

"The other gorillas are mourning. They are cleaning him," she said.

"You have to be very careful. You can't just remove the body."

http://www.terradaily.com/reports/Gorilla_King_Titus_dies_in_Rwanda_999.html

Anybody looking for a job? TPM is hiring

"Journo jobs? TPM has 'em. Would like to come and work for us? See details here http://bit.ly/ycmcq"

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/were-all-czars-here.html#comment-260411

Completely absurd remark. Sorry to say that XRepub. One, I am well aware of Hizb'Allah activity. It was Hizb'Allah leadership that declared several weeks ago that they have agents around the world capable of inflicting serious damage. Two, they have been discovered in Egypt plotting the overthrow of the Egyptian government which led to an ugly spat. They have also turned up on the radar in Africa and South America. They have also been active in Iraq to name a few places other than a front line with Israel..

It is true they have primarily been stationed in Lebanon in conflict with Israel, but to ignore their close working with Quds and their activity with the "Quds" agenda would be a mistake. And perhaps you are unaware of their goal. That is to create a global Islamic State, likely run by the Mullahs in Iran. Yes, absurd, but that doesn't discount their intent which you have limited to the overthrow of Israel.

Oh yeah, I'm the ghost of Cooper.....

As far as ACORN, whether they are the LAPD or not is bedsides the point. They are going down. The eye is the same thing whether watching football or this old house. There are many vidoes depicting the same wild criminality of ACORN which I brought up repeatedly during the primary. The videos will keep rolling in and Democrats had better prepare for another ground army. 8.6 billion was set up for ACORN. That's right, 8.5 billion and if any private or public organization engaged in the behavior of ACORN, heads would roll. When Holder was picked I asked whether Holder would go after groups like ACORN or Cairn and examine their behavior or whether Holder would break Obama's promise and go after the CIA. And I said which I thought he would do. I guess with less than seven months in, I predicted correctly. I also wonder when Democrats would play the race card. I wonder how transparent the O-team would really be. I predicted Obama would break his promise and cut defense and I even laughed at Obama's objection to the Bush understanding of the unitary principle.

Well, I can agree with one thing Obama said yesterday: West is a jackass. Beyond that, it was a bad day for Democrats and I was glad my Independent status put some distance between their behavior and reason.

It was a bad day for Democrats. Jimmy Carter explains to the world that objections to Obama's healthcare is because of latent racism. Democrats are playing the card. Maybe West took the mic because he hated seeing a white girl get an award over a black girl. This is pathetic nonsense. The fatc is that only after the "outburst" did the Obama camp move to close the very loophole that made Obama's declaration dishonest. That is the primary fact around the Wilson comment. Yes, it was rude. Not as rude as booing Bush or Reid telling school children Bush is a liar and a loser. Now resistance to Obama is racism. Glad I know that and every time I have a problem with policy and feel like yelling, I'm a racist. What utter garbage.

I am a racist for calling the Gitmo game absurd. I posted the link to Slate on that one. I am a racist to call Obama's claims about deficits and taxes disingenuous. I am a racist to disagree with administration policy on Israel or Honduras where the administration made big mistakes. I am a racist for objecting to the pork in the Stimulus.

Holy crap. I must be one friggin racist to discredit ACORN who has been a partisan soldier for Democrats for decades.

This is a pathetic ploy that is actually more disgusting than Bush using security to his advantage.

So you all can laugh at any talk of tough action on Iran or even terrorists for that matter.

You all can defend the noble ACORN. You all can call resistance to poor policy racist and rally behind Jimmy Carter. You all can applaud Obama for his great foreign policy insight and bipartisan and transparent behavior.

And when the dust clears, once again Democrats will have managed to snatch defeat from the hand of victory. That the majority of Americans do not support the very President they elected on the matter of healthcare is being called racist, is about as stupid as it gets......

max.....hope you understand that i was not referring to you as being a racist......my point was that it's not a case of "playing" a "race card". racism exists......in strong and virulent strains......and sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.....racism is there and to ignore it or reduce it to "playing" a card is to be a part of not taking the bull by the tail and facing the situation......

as a jewish person you would actually fall into the position of being an object of these racists' hatred......along with catholics.....ha, catholic hating not even racial hatred......just plain old hatred..........

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/were-all-czars-here.html#comment-260414

Anon you are an idiot plain and simple. Without those you call merchants of death, we all would be speaking your mother tongue. Now you explain I must have stock in the MIC to advocate preventing Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons and ending their support of terror.

Like I said you are an idiot with serious congitive problems.

But then, don't let me stop you. Unfortunately, you serve as a good reality check on what lurks to the Left.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/were-all-czars-here.html#comment-260463

.. will do, Jamie.

Max, voter fraud got Bush elected, twice. You should embrace it.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/were-all-czars-here.html#comment-260471

... excellent post, Sturge

Sturg your point in the context such a card is being played now is off target completely. Most of the people we will continue to see on the ACORN tapes are black. Does that mean blacks are criminals and responsible for ACORN corruption from the top down? No. Dowd and Carter are inflaming the partisan struggle on policy.

One can say there is some racism inherent in the base of the Republicans. And those Dixiecrats were a fine bunch, weren't they? Boston has a long history of of racism but Duval is in office, His numbers are terrible yet did he tell Ted his polls reflect racism? Will Patterson accuse Cuomo and others of racism?

And here is a fact: Many minorities that largely support the Democrats are rather racist themselves. I have heard the most racist things coming from Russians, Chinese and Eastern Europeans although they consider themselves fairly liberal and vote Democratic. I hear this from Indians and Arabs who also trend to the left. So to say the Democrats have no racist bones is a joke.

Racism exists. Often in large amounts OUTSIDE the US. Let's see England or France elect a Black or even a Jew. To introduce this into politics as an explanation why Obama poll numbers faulter is terrible strategy. Absolutely terrible and you won't hear this coming from Bill or Hillary who suffered the race card.

I will have none of this......

Scarborough this AM: FAKING anger because Jimmy Carter accused the Republicans of inciting racism.

Racism has been at the center of Republican strategy since Nixon's '68 campaign. Joe should ask Buchanan about it, since Pat helped create the "Southern Strategy." Joe used this strategy to get himself elected to Congress in the '90s.

Scarborough simultaneously denies racism (with a wink and a nod) and reassures the rednecks out there that he understands their desire to "keep the niggers down."

Scarborough for President (of the Confederate states) in 2012.

Nash the Red pill not the Blue one....

I'm taking bets (I've got a dollar, and I'm ready to risk it)

Craig's new thread topic today: Jimmy Carter's comments about racism.

Nash, have some more coffee, you are sounding like Anon. Your last comment is really as idiotic as Anon's.

But I guess it makes you FEEL better. Now did Joe say that are did you take too much acid last night?

when you say something about a thing you are already off the mark.......

--lao tzu (or some other chinese character)

HOBART, Australia (AP) -- A cat named Clyde was reunited with his owner on Wednesday after a mysterious three-year odyssey in which the long-haired Himalayan strayed 2,400 miles (3,800 kilometers) into the Australian Outback.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AS_AUSTRALIA_LOST_CAT?SITE=TXDAM&TEMPLATE=STRANGEHEADS.html&SECTION=HOME

I saw this this morning Bob. Amazing story.

Sturg, a great quote for Carter and Dowd.

" Waiter, check please . "

Will whomever has the "Race Card" please bring it to the Oval Office? We have to decide whether to play it.
-Obama's Senior Staff

We've got it, and we're playing it. Nyah, nyah.
-The GOP

Max: I haven't done acid since .... the late 70s?
(That was last week, right?)

I'll get back to you as soon as there is a clearing in the purple haze.

Well Bob, I'm not leaving the tip. You all have an intellectually and emotionally satisfying day. Maybe Obama will include mental hep in the public option. I have to go now and beat down some Black people.......

Flash back Nash, just flash back....

From HuufPo…

"The Four Courtsmen of the Apocalypse are poised to finally bury American democracy in corporate money. The most powerful institution in human history -- the global corporation -- may soon take definitive possession of our electoral process."

"It could happen very soon."

"While America agonizes over health care, energy and war, Justices John Roberts, Antonin Scalia, Sam Alito and Clarence Thomas could make it all moot. They may now have the fifth Supreme Court vote they need to open the final floodgates on corporate spending in political campaigns."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/harvey-wasserman/will-the-corporate-suprem_b_285316.html

mornin'

I see De-Nial is the conservatives' river today.

Max -
I've been waiting 42 years for a flash back.

" I have to go now and beat down some Black people....... "

Just don't meet them for lunch at the Cracker Barrel . You won't get served.

Morning in America -
A movie about the life of Darwin can't get distribution in the 21 st. century in America.

" LET'S GET READY TO RUMBLE !!!!! "

World Wrestling Entertainment CEO Resigns to Run for Senate

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125310325822615619.html

Max

List of British Jewish Politicians

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_Jewish_politicians since 1837

"black" politician is a little harder due to the multiplicity of races from the British Empire and "black" usually referred only to those from South Africa and India as in "Little Black Sambo", but today multi racial politicians are common due to the parliamentary system that elects by district.

CBob

I saw that on TV last night and "Creation" looks like a fascinating mid 19th century costume drama. Maybe it will get aired on BBC America at some point or released on video. I doubt it is the type of movie that would do particularly well in theaters simply because of the genre (Sort of Jane Austin does science)

Police: Ky. politician said he 'wanted revenge'

Police: Ex-lawmaker charged with murder told police he was 'at end of his rope'

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/news/2009/09/police_ky_politician_said_he_wanted_revenge.php?ref=fpa

No Bob, I was actually going to meet first at StarBucks and have some green tea.....

Conservative NP? This Liberal sees a lot of denial in Democrats foolish tactic sure to divert once again from getting things done.

Perhaps instead, you can offer some legal advice for ACORN to throw out the tape. If ACORN ran themselves more like a major corportation they wouldn't be in such a complete mess.

I take it you agree that resistance is racism? Oopps my green tea is being served. It IS kind of creepy sitting in this "Black Only" section. I reminds me of pictures I saw of the Democratic South of the fifties......

Oh good. I see the "White Only" bathroom vacant now. I wonder if that Chinese man read the sign....

Operation Rescue says it's broke, may shut down

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/news/2009/09/operation_rescue_says_its_broke_may_shut_down.php?ref=fpa

Jamie, let's see a Black or Jewish leader in England, France, Russia, Sweden, or even Brazil. Are you really suggesting America is behind the curve on that count?

Economics 101

Once the Supreme Court lets corporations take over the financing of all campaigns, in a very short time, our economy will be utterly wrecked.

Think not? What do you think will happen when there is NO regulation of Wall Street at all, not even the feeble laws we currently have in place, which couldn't stop the last crash?

2013: Global Depression. Revolution. War.

You'd better stock up on gold, guns, and gardening equipment. (The gardening equipment is to grow your own food, the guns will keep others from stealing it, and the gold...come to think of it, gold has no useful function.)

Yes, Max, the repugs are interested in making sure those who don't have health insurance won't, and mjus tnot be deterred from that quest.

ACORN - speaking of distractions...

OK. Gold does make good fillings.

Good luck finding a dentist after the apocalypse.

mjus tnot = ... must not ... (note to self, look first, submit next.

"Most of the people we will continue to see on the ACORN tapes are black. Does that mean blacks are criminals and responsible for ACORN corruption from the top down?", Max said.

However, Max that is exactly how Faux Snooze is presenting the story to it's audiences.

Thunderdome, Inc.
Post-Apocalyptic Dentistry
Mad Max, DDM.
Cash or Barter (no plastic)

ACORN isn't a major corporation, and it's a damned rare decentralized nonprofit that runs itself like a major corporation - but then again, nonprofits don't exist to squeeze the last nth of money out of the economy to reward their employees and investors for doing that. ACORN needs to tighten up its operations, and you'll have to look pretty far and wide to find anyone who condones what that idiot employee (?) did.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/were-all-czars-here.html#comment-260501

Max,

That totally depends on what you mean by "leader". We only got around to President last year. I was responding to your charge that Britain didn't elect Jewish or black politicians which was just plain silly as Disraeli was PM in 1837 though he did have to convert to Church of England.

Certainly prejudice exists in Britain but it has more to do with immigration issues rather than racial ones.
In 2005 Paul Boeteng became the first black cabinet minister though black back benchers had existed before then.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A12396-2005Apr23.html

Now non political is something else. After all the new Miss France is multiracial

http://www.tictacflo.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/chloe_mortaud_miss_france_2009_03.jpg

HD, imagine that - and I'm sure there's no racist motive behind that slant. ;-)

Oh and Max,

I didn't know until I just checked that Chloe Mortaud "Miss France", just became the 2009 Miss Universe.

Maybe she will run for President of FRance. :-)

Max -
" Are you really suggesting America is behind the curve on that count? "

I love it when conservatives brag about how swell things are, when they had nothing to do with it's changing for the better.

"HD, imagine that - and I'm sure there's no racist motive behind that slant. ;-)", Pogo wisely said.

just pointing out the obvious, my man, just the obvious.

HD, we hold these truths to be self evident.

LOL @ the Pogo the Newest.

I can't help but wonder if they will call for the same level of investigation of Falwell and all the other politically active churches who register voters not to mention all of the grants received by their "non religious" charitable activities.

Exhibit "A"

Rush Limbaugh: "Obama's America - White Kids Get Beat Up With The Black Kids Cheering" (AUDIO)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/16/rush-limbaugh-obamas-amer_n_288371.html

-------------
The current leading light of the political right.

Posted by: jamie44.myopenid.com Author Profile Page | September 16, 2009 10:35 AM

are pigs flying?

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/were-all-czars-here.html#comment-260502 "You'd better stock up on gold, guns, and gardening equipment."

Nash, I really need to ask this again. You are kidding, aren't you?

KC, jamie - no flying pig sightings here today.

chloe, nash is always kidding - except when he's dead serious.

I know Pogo, but sometimes he's serious when I think he's kidding. So had to ask.

So I see Baucus' bill has no Repug support. Dumbass. I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so. Grassley and the rest can be trusted to be what they are, and nothing more. Baucus is a fool, or is that a tool? Hmmm, I confuse the 2.

chloe, indeed. I think most of us are, and only nash in this case knows (my money is on serious, but not as serious as the statement suggests.

Pogo, Chloe

While I don't expect the Nash prediction to materialize completely, there are a lot of situations in the world that might make being prepared with his recommendations wouldn't be a bad idea. If nothing happens, you are okay and if something does, you don't starve.

The only purpose served by gold is as a standard of currency exchange no matter who is the big guy on the block.

Largest-ever Collection Of Coins From Period Of Revolt Against Romans Found In Judean Hills

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090909095100.htm

President's opinion of Kanye West sparks debate
"President Barack Obama's candid thoughts about Kanye West are provoking a debate over standards of journalism in the Twitter age.

ABC News says it was wrong for its employees to tweet that Obama had called West a "jackass" for the rapper's treatment of country singer Taylor Swift. The network said some of its employees had overheard a conversation between the president and CNBC's John Harwood and didn't realize it was considered off the record.

The network apologized to the White House and CNBC."
http://www.mail.com/Article.aspx/entertainment/0/APNews/General-Entertainment/20090916/U_US-TV-Obama-Tweet?pageid=1

http://www.kansascity.com/115/story/1448955.html

Not everything that comes of a bad economy is bad. Operation Rescue is out of money, blames that on the economy.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/were-all-czars-here.html#comment-260526

Jamie and Pogo,
The main reason I asked is because so many of the right wingers have been stocking up on guns, and I've heard many say that they're crazy for doing it, at least I thought that was what I was hearing.

I'm hoping that when Nash gets back, he'll give me some more of his opinion. I really enjoy his posts, and I respect his opinion, so I'd like to see where he stands on all of this. To me, that post he made, didn't sound that far fetched. But don't get me wrong, I'm not 'running scared'. Just curious.

Insurance Company Rules

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVpX5fUvPlg

How To Get Rich (by America's Insurance Companies)

http://www.youtube.com/user/HealthCareForAmerica#play/uploads/0/uKiXWaDY8g4

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/were-all-czars-here.html#comment-260529

Yes Pogo! A bright spot!!

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/were-all-czars-here.html#comment-260509

NP I can tell when you're doing damage control. And let's be clear you called ACORN a diversion. Well, the story on ACORN is long and my comment about a corporation being better run yet more vilified stands. Don't try to minimize the problem. ACORN was granted as a reward for their Democratic service, 8.6 billion from the administration and the connections go deep. Democrats squashed all attempts to investigate ACORN. Why?

You try to minimize the problem by suggesting this is one employee? Well stay tuned NP. There has already been four tapes. Tonight should be intereseting. BreitBart is going to do what no Liberal Media had the balls to do for years. I know the game NP, I was a community organizer in Westchester during my highschool days when we collected money from households. Now that was insightful. You can fool outsiders but you can't fool someone who saw how it works from the inside.

Democrats are panicking and Holder has some decisions to make. Will Obama throw his old buddies under the bus? A pragmatic egoist would read the poll numbers and then decide. Falwell investigated? I rather doubt you will get video tape of activists in that camp telling a pimp how he can get away with forcing under aged illegal immigrants to have violent sex for money. I believe this video team went to most of the 50 States. Stewart said it all last night and chastized media fro letting this sore go on for so long without investigating. 8.6 billion and only this outrage got SOME Liberals mad enough to support an investigation. I see some reaction here to knee jerk and suggest the GOP does the same criminal things. By that logic Congress booed Bush so they should boo Obama if they want.

Jamie dream on about a Black female French Presdient. Is that the best you can do? See my comment below.

Bob, call me a conservative for dissing ACORN and yesterday explaining why the big stick works or the need to confront the Iranian threat which Obama ran on should "talks" fail. You are predictable at least. Well, then so is Anon. I guess Obama is a closet conservative too along with Hillary. Nice try to discredit through bad labels, but I forgive your incontrollable impulses.

Horsedooty, Fox said no such thing and repeatedly claimed many decent people work for ACORN. Get new talking points.

Again, Jamie ain't going to see a black or jewish President or Prime Minister in any of those countries for a while. I would suggest making a Jew convert is hardly the concept we were talking about, try again. And no where did I say Obama meant an end to all American racism, but with TMV calling tea partiers the American Taliban, bigotry continues on the Left too. If you all attacked the anti-jewish crap on the left as much as the suspect racism on the right, there would be some credibility.

Seven months in and disorder is rampant. Gee, this is the change I wanted....not.

Jay Rockefeller understands what Baucus' bill attempts to do, and he ain't buyin' Baucus' scam.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/15/sen-rockefeller-wont-vote_n_287635.html

Good for you Jay - I see you actually do pay some attention to your constituents' e-mails.

Who is the Tax Czar?
WARNING - The Senate Finance committee is proposing excise tax on most everything Medical, Who do they think pays this in the end?

Such brilliant work -

Ping -
We'll need a link .

Imagine that was a group of white boys pounding on a black child. Shaprton would be there making it a civil rights issue. Obama would be giving a speech. Instead of deploring the act, you all use it here against Republicans. Are you completely nuts? What is wrong is the lack of outrage over a racist beating and the lack of a balanced response. Sometimes Liberals are so completely partisan, they can't see the ground from the sky.

It is almost like some wish for a race war because you think at least that is one battle Liberals are sure to win. This is all so embarrassingly disgusting and many just don't get it. WHen faced with a difficult road to fight, it is easier to resort to failed, cheap and intellectually unsound thinking -exactl;y what Liberals accuse Republicans of doing. In that sense you are all Rush..........

I am counting those who are outraged by the bus beating v those who use this victim to blast Republicans.

I find this article 'very' interesting, and there's a link on the page to a Chris Mathews piece too...

Lee Siegel on what Glenn Beck’s angry army has in common with hippies.
"Let’s all calm down. The Tea Party Express rally in Washington wasn’t the beginning of some political apocalypse that is going to plunge the country into civil war.

If anything, its noisiness was inversely proportionate to its power—the ugly images and inflammatory rhetoric were burbles of helplessness. Without cable TV’s magnifications, the peaceful, even cautious, demonstration would have come and gone with barely a notice.

Up until now, society may have changed, but politics remained the same.

In society, culture and now politics, what was once considered countercultural is today the establishment. And so it’s no surprise that what was once considered the establishment—the war cry of patriotism, religion, and morality—is the new counterculture.." http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-09-15/is-obama-the-new-nixon/?cid=hp:mainpromo5

chloe, whether nash was or was not kidding, his list is important to consider. however, he left out a very vital item, water. that, not food and not gold, will be the treasure to guard.

Posted by: maxtrue Author Profile Page | September 16, 2009 11:07 AM

Who got beat up on a bus? I missed the story.

Hey Craig, Ed Morrisey of Hot Air, is saying nice things about Congressional Quarterly in his latest post.

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/09/16/who-owns-the-word-politico/

China growth path could exceed planet's resources

Using growth trends from 2002 to 2008, the study said China's energy consumption could exceed 100 billion tons of standard coal in 2050, exceeding the entire load-carrying capacity of the planet, whose energy consumption was 16.1 billion tons of standard coal in 2008.

http://www.seattlepi.com/national/1104ap_as_china_climate_change.html

Patd, It's starting to sound like a few people agree with Nash.
Our property is on a well, and there's never any shortage of water her, because we get plenty of rain. So I guess, that's a plus. Most people are hooked up to city water.

This whole conversation that Nash started is really an interesting one, imo.

"Like I said you are an idiot with serious congitive problems"

max, just a reminder lest you've inadvertantly forgotten our gracious host's rule number 8:

"Be courteous. There will be moments of passion when things are said in anger. If you must attack, target the idea or the opinion -- but NEVER the person. Personal attacks are useless, tend to escalate hostilities and ruin the reading experience for everyone else. Such comments, even if isolated, are subject to deletion. An ongoing pattern of persistent violations will result in blocked access."

Yes, I did call that a distraction - because it is. And you called the Wilson flap a distraction. Of course in a tit for tat sort of way, both are distractions from anything else that might be happening anywhere else - but then again Wilson's actions were in the House during an address by the president about healthcare - which kind of strikes me as somehow related to the healthcare debate, so I suppose it did advance the debate to some extent. At least it added the possibility of racism to the debate. And bringing up ACORN just advanced that issue a bit further.

"a community organizer in Westchester during my highschool days" Westchester County NY? Yonkers, White Plains, New Rochelle? The 8th highest county as far as median income in the country? Wow, what'd you do, ride the train into NY and collect from the businessmen on their way to Wall St or just hit them up at the country club? I guess there is community organizing and then there is community organizing.

I think Nash mentioning gold, was merely in case the dollar loses all worth. Growing food is always a good idea, and I may trying my hand at it next spring (just for the fun of it).

I don't know that it's ever such a bad idea to have a gun tucked away, someplace safe. I don't like them though, and prefer to think I'd never have reason to use it.

"This whole conversation that Nash started is really an interesting one, imo."

Posted by: chloe Author Profile Page | September 16, 2009 11:19 AM

I started it yesterday. Damn you, Nash!

Oh and the ACORN woman who claimed she was also a prosititute in her youth and murdered her husband was a white. It just gets better and better and I see only now, some other media groups are investigating ACORN. Democrats in Congress are running from this like the plague. Acorn has now passed Wright in the associations Obama would prefer not to talk about.

And by the way, Jamie will tell you I do support reform. I predicted Obama needed more than a partisan speech to get things done last week. Now polls show support against reform is where it was before his speech. Democrats, not Obama decided to make an issue out of Wilson that foolishly spilled into racism. This is why I am angry. This is shooting oneself in the foot. Others disparage the attempt to get a bipartisan bill, or even Rangel's claim about lower costs and raising taxes.

I am reacting to the sheer stupidity with Carter and Dowd not only making false claims but making poor political moves. In a way I feel sorry for Obama that he has such a disfunctional and deluded support base. As for idiot Carter, be now sees racism in political opposition but never saw genocide in Sudan nor hatred in the present leadership of Palestinians. I can only wonder why OBL just told the world to read the truth in Carter's book. This is another reason why yesterday was a bad day for Democrats. OBL praises Carter's book.....

"There will be moments of passion when things are said in anger."

Ha! Who, me???

Town hall in Mandeville tonight to discuss Chinese drywall

http://www.nola.com/northshore/index.ssf/2009/09/town_hall_meeting_tonight_in_m.html

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/space/2009-09-16-rocky-planet_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip

Bob, this seems to be stuff you might have an interest in. Doesn't seem surprising - there are likely to be solid plantes out there. Who could have guessed that?

It must be tough to be the only one who is ever right
what a burden

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/were-all-czars-here.html#comment-260544

The problem may be, that I've heard Max called many names in the past. That tends to rile a person up after a while.... no maybe this is a good time for all of us to remind ourselves to stick to the subject matter.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/were-all-czars-here.html#comment-260533

Max

You are blithering again. Did I mention the Taliban anywhere? Did you bother to look at the list? Disraeli was hardly the only Jewish politician of note, just the first Jewish PM. As I said, we only got around to Black last year. I'm sure France and Britain will in time as well now that they are represented within the Cabinet. Things at the top do change slowly.

In both of those countries there have been Jewish and multi racial people of note in government, finance, athletics, and the arts. Good gravy, Queen Elizabeth was dancing with Black world leaders in the 1950s. I certainly don't think you saw Mamie Eisenhower doing that.

max, am curious about those "congitive problems" in your addled hominey. need clarification before i finish wagging my finger, tsking and stomping off in a righteous huff, did you mean cognitive, congenital, congenial, or conjugal problems?

False claims - what a crock. What, do you think the rebuke of Wilson galvanized the right, already against reform 100%, against reform? What crap. This is a ridiculous accusation - and to deny that the incidences of racism pointed out by Dowd and rejecting the belief of Jimmy Carter, who grew up in the midst of the racist south, that racism is part of the anti everything Obama movement is naive. And I'm sure that the attacks against ACORN are purely out of concern for the organization to save it from the illegal acts of some i[of its employees rather than an attempt to smear it because it actively seeks to register poor people to vote, and whose registrants have large numbers of minority voters among them. Yes, I'm sure that advanced the healthcare debate. Denial is not a river in Africa. Healthcare reform is being defeated by the likes of Max Baucus and Faux News and teabaggers financed by the pharmaceutical and corporate healthcare industries, not by the likes of James Clyburn.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/were-all-czars-here.html#comment-260545

You don't have to be an asshole NP. I took off afternoons and weekends in highschool because I cared about bettering society. I was Liberal then and I am Liberal now. I tutored black kids from Harlem at Horace Mann on Saturdays (not during footbal season) and gave my other free time to what I think was called back then CCAG. First I was briefed on the issues be they zoning or cadidates running for local office. I would go to each house in Harrison, White Plains, Ort Chester, Rye etc (where my bike would take me) and ring door bells for hours. I would present the CCAG talking points and have a conversation if I could. I would collect whatever money I got, let households sign petitions and then meet back at home base. I did this for a few years until my own questions failed to be answered by organizers. I saw some pocket money and show a rather por grasp of the meterial.

So you can belittle my effort as much as you want. You can call investigating ACORN who was going to get 8.6 billion as a diversion along with race and Wilson, but beyond the fan club here or on blogs like Huff and Kos where your view is cheered, the distortion of objectivity is duly noted.

cognitive Patd. And before you characterize my rant or discourse (whatever you care to call it) try and step back and see the partisan sinkhole many Liberals have fallen into..........

"sheer stupidity with Carter.... making false claims"

max, as they say on the tee shirt, "i'm with stupid" because even in my supposedly enlightened social circle there have been uttered rather boorish and blatantly racist comments about our president.

Appropriate song for my neck of the knobs: a Grandpa Jones composition performed by the Dillards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDNAkEtfzLE

As for the rest of the conversation here, I think I'm right to stick to music. Some of this is frankly gratuitous insult masquerading as political comment.

Max, I certainly don't appreciate you referring to Mr. Carter as an idiot, especially when it seems to rile you up when others of us refer to Mr. Bush in the same terms. And, given that Craig worked for Mr. Carter, and holds him in the highest regard, I should think he would have something to say about that as well.

For anyone who appreciates history as gossip, I just found a truly fun blog

http://lisawallerrogers.wordpress.com/

"Some of this is frankly gratuitous insult masquerading as political comment."

... well put Fair.

"ACORN who was going to get 8.6 billion"

Max,

Do you have a link for this figure and how it was allocated? The figure I heard was 43 million over the last 15 years for registration and tax preparation services.

Fair, You need to jump in when you see us screwing up. Don't just observe it, say nothing. We need variety and I, for one, would love to hear more of your opinion.

Make that 53 million. Don't want to short them.

Obama was elected Presdient by a majority of Americans. NP now wants to characterize political opposition to Obama as racist. If the majority now disapproves of Obama's handling of policy, by what machination did America become racist again? Let's keep it simple NP. On the face of it, your lack of logic is absurd. The objections to reform from the Right are specific and didn't include "Being black". I don't give a shit about the 100% against reform wing. Many are idiots. Race need not even be central to these people. Your position is absurd.

I don't give a crap about what Carter saw among many Southern racist Democrats and Republicans or even what he sees today. To characterize the objection to big government, growing deficits, public options, no end to defensive medicine, bankrupt government programs has little to do with racism. It is you that is making the claim that must provide evidence. Not me.

ACORN was a problem for years and the investigation now unfloding on tape was not designed to be a diversion, but rather an uncovering of what many have suspected. The FBI is doing its best to uncover CAIRN. Maybe Democrats would have prefered to give ACORN 8.6 billion and investigate them next decade or certainly after their help in 2010.

Obama accepted Wilson's apology and that should have been the end of it. Instead the Democrats couldn't help themselves and Dowd and Carter ran with it in a transparent effort to play race in the healthcare debate. It was foolish and I am sure Obama wants no part of this diversion. He justs wants some reform passed. After scolding Obama for the Gates diversion, Democrats repeated the tragedy with Wilson.

So once again, the idiots on the Left are at war with the idiots on the Right. Those in the middle or Independent find this indeed pathetic and I find many remarks here simply enabling this destructive game which offers no credible basis of objectivity or realism beyond the talking points to solve America's problems.

Half this country is center/Left and half is center/Right. The extremes don't matter in the end. Deal with it in a fair and objective way.

fair, since we're calling each other names here today, call me al

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqrKejQTynk&feature=related

Jamie -
I liked Max's use of Sweden in his list .
According to Wiki ,
Sweden has 9,263,872 people, 70,000 of whom are black or black mixed race.

Let's see that's .007 % of the population.

The Jewish population of Sweden is now roughly 18,000 or

.001 % of the population.

Ergo : Sweden is less progressive than the U.S. ,because we can't find one Jewish or black political leader in Sweden.

Nice.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/were-all-czars-here.html#comment-260555

No I'm not blithering Jamie. As you can see from that post I was responding to several comments at the same time. My apology if I failed to separate the responses.

As for calling Carter an idiot. I stand by remark, but let me say modify it and say he was idiotic. Maybe that is better, yes? His reflection on the Sudan was idiotic. His signals to Hizb and Hamas were idiotic, but given his educational and executive background, he is hardly, literally what Websters calls an idiot. Still, that is far better treatment than what the civil Left dumped on the GOP these last eight years and I for one hate a match where the refs take sides.

Yes, Williams was rude, but the judge was wrong in her call.......

Diversion Bob, I was just throwing countries around. You didn't get the joke. Many Swedish women I have met in NYC say they love black men. Wonder why they don't vote in one for President, or perhaps they just think of blacks as studly but not Presidential.

Did that answer your question?

It really must be bad when R Sen. Olympia Snowe is not onboard of a Dem bill, don't you know.

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/58929-democrats-to-go-it-alone

Max, excuse me, but being an asshole is something you've taken to an art, and you get as good as you get. WADR, Jimmy Carter probably has a bit more insight into racism than you do if for no other reason than where and when he grew up. Your desire to improve society is admirable, but your patting yourself on the back for community orgainizing in Westchester to prove your bona fides must give you a pain in your shoulders. If you were attempting to get people in Westchester to consider voting for causes mor eliberal than they otherwise might, then you are to be concratulated for those efforts. If you are interested in talking about the healthdcare debate, fell free to. If you want to criticize Congress for rebuking a racist Repug asshole from SC for calling the Pres a liar on national TV in an address to Congress about healthcare - his history of racist affiliations and causes belies his son and wife's protestations to the contrary - don't expect anyone to take your outrage about that being a distraction from the healthcare debate seriously. And you can't on the one hand criticize the Wilson rebuke as a distraction from the healthcare debate while on the other hand raising the ACORN issue and be accused of being consistent. You spend your time railing about your own pet issues, and it doesn't seem to bother you that those discussions have nothing to do with the healthcare debate, and that's fine, those topics are fair game and we don't focus lazer like on any one issue here on any day. You might cconsider that your seldom even acknowledging the possibility that others here might be right even in part if their opinions differ from your own doesn't exactly encourage people to engage in serious discussion with you. And if you want to discount everything I've said, feel free - I couldn't care less.

8.6 billion in the stimulus for ACORN. Just goggle it Jamie. CNN and others have repeated this number in the last two days. The number you are talking about i believe is just for voter registration drives.

8.6 billion. Obama canceled the raptor for less. He cut back missile defense for less. He can't even get us back to the moon which requires another 3 billion.

It is sad, very sad....

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/were-all-czars-here.html#comment-260570

Perhaps it would be even better if you would say you found his remarks on racism to be idiotic. That way, you avoid calling Mr. Carter an idiot (leave that to the Limbaughs, the Hannitys and others of that repellent ilk) and make it clear that this is your opinion, not a blanket statement about his intelligence. Would that work?

Excuse me MAX, but why should I have to "google" anything for your statements? If you can't bother providing links, why is it up to us to do your work for you?

BTW, I did just google - Nowhere other than Hannity, Fox and similar sites use anything close to that number and they are all over the place with no info as to whether it was all to ACORN or the total sum for census activities by other groups as well.

As the devastating insect emerald ash borer is working its way across North America destroying almost all the native ash trees it encounters, Widrlechner is rapidly collecting and storing ash tree seeds.

Like the legendary Appleseed who planted apple trees across the country, Widrlechner's seed stocks can serve as a national source for reintroducing ash trees once the devastation can be controlled.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090910184308.htm

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/were-all-czars-here.html#comment-260569

CBob

You know Max never allows details to interfere with his opinions.

Max,

I agree with what you say about Acorn....we need to get every special interest group out of the government...Acorn does some good things: So do some churches...still don't want them, or need them

The rest of what you say is bs....especially about the two (2)- (dos) Hiz. B agents that have Egypt surrounded...the two of them....hahah

Chloe,

I think that Nash has an interesting view of what the future might look like: The reason that Im not in totall agreement is that he is discounting the people in the middle; the ones that keep everything together....what he described has always been around...I experienced it at first hand...T he extremes of both partys, are dangerous...allways have been ,and allways will

NP, I have been in and out of Harlem for decades and have spent many years in urban cities. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss my experiance, but just because Carter and I differ in experiances doesn't make his unsupported and political dumb claim smart. And I rather doubt Cater ever dated a black women though perhaps he did have some lust in his heart.

Please refer me to your post that blasted Democrats for booing Bush. You do understand how hypocritical you appear. Wilson was rude, but there are policy debates that form this rudeness, not the unsupported claims of racism. Is that simple enough? And you do know why they used to call it Poor Chester? Imagine the worst parts of White Plains some decades back. I was shot at once in 1982 driving my pick up through Harlem at 3 in the morning after a music gig in the East Village.

Again, my outrage is over the pathetic race card play with comments coming from Carter and Dowd to name a few. My outrage is over the indifference concerning vote getting ACORN. My outrage is the pretense of objectivity. Make no mistake however NP, my comments are always directed at usernames and not the decent people behind them. Sometimes you have to get loud to be heard. I think I was heard and coming from someone who is not a conservative, nor has any conservative history, maybe that will count as one drop in the bucket.

As for issues, I have offered ideas and opinions on healthcare. My predictions have largely come true from before the primary ended on many topics. I called the healthcare mess the moment I saw the Obama game plan. And that was as a strong supporter of reform. I usually do deal with the topic at hand and offer no more emotion and bias than many here dump on not-Democratic all day long.

I ain't here to cheerlead. Consider me an antibody. What doesn't kill you will make you stronger.

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/02/the-stimulus-bill-and-acorn/

Factcheck says you're wrong, Max, FWIW.

"To characterize the objection to big government, growing deficits, public options, no end to defensive medicine, bankrupt government programs has little to do with racism."

I wholeheartedly agree, Max. It shouldn't be used as a catch all.

Fair,

I agree with Chloe, You need to stick around, and give your take on things: From what I have seen, they are Fair :-) minded and always given with a little bit of humor...

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/were-all-czars-here.html#comment-260575

Yes, perhaps you are right, but as a Jew, I find more idiocy in Carter than you obviously do. Yes, I repeat my modification: Catre often displays idiotic behavior, but I am sure he is a decent and educated man with a lovely wife.

I hope you display your comment control on other remarks directed at the non-Democratic. Or is it just Carter you are defending?

Just this morning you can count the disparaging characterizations of Republicans. I am sure Craig respects some of them.

"T he extremes of both partys, are dangerous...allways have been ,and allways will"

Yes, you can say that again Solar.
I knew you'd agree with what Nash said about Big Business taking us over though.

Like Solar said Fair, you are fair. Keep it up.

O.K., so you don’t believe global warming is real. I do, but let’s assume it’s not. Here is what is indisputable: The world is on track to add another 2.5 billion people by 2050, and many will be aspiring to live American-like, high-energy lifestyles. In such a world, renewable energy — where the variable cost of your fuel, sun or wind, is zero — will be in huge demand.

China now understands that. It no longer believes it can pollute its way to prosperity because it would choke to death. That is the most important shift in the world in the last 18 months. China has decided that clean-tech is going to be the next great global industry and is now creating a massive domestic market for solar and wind, which will give it a great export platform.

In October, Applied will be opening the world’s largest solar research center — in Xian, China. Gotta go where the customers are. So, if you like importing oil from Saudi Arabia, you’re going to love importing solar panels from China.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/were-all-czars-here.html

Max

You keep claiming to be liberal and to have all of this experience in black communities, yet all of your talking points, figures, and commentary comes from right wing sites, most of which is probably inaccurate.

It makes me think of that old definition of a conservative as a "Liberal who has been mugged." and like all converts you seem to go overboard in that direction.

Max,

Since you're here to provide an alternate opinion, to make us see that there are two sides to every story, would it be easy enough to make it more palatable?

You have a lot of important things to say, and I remember you used to be able to say it without the insults. That would serve your motive and goal much better. Then people wouldn't be reading your opinions from a point of anger. When someone is angry, they shut the door.

Sorry bad link above -
Have a Nice day -

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/16/opinion/16friedman.html?_r=1&em

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/were-all-czars-here.html#comment-260588

CBob

This is where the stimulus money should be going if our politicians ever considered taking up long range thinking (insert hysterical laughter here)

Those shoulders must be hurting badly.

Of course you've been to Harlem - last train stop before Grand Central. So what? Carter calls it as he sees it - he's one of the few politicians who do. If that's politically stupid, I'm sure he's willing to live with that. If you think Carter's words will be the straw that broke the camel's back in the healthcare debate, you are out of your mind.

I didn't criticize Congressmen for booing Bush, and I also didn't criticize the repugs who booed Obama. You are a master of false equivalents, but better check what is and is not parallel. And for the record - Bush DID lie to Congress about what he wanted to do and why. HAD he been called a liar openly during an address to congress, that too would have been a breach of congressional protocol, which if I were a Reug would have bothered me enough to decry it. I have less interest in dredging up past slights to criticize dems for calling a lying pres a liar than I do paying attention to the stuff that is actually in the papers today.

But I have received a welcome reprieve and am leaving for the reas tof the day. Bye now.

Max's opinion is 'his' opinion. If he says he's a liberal, then I believe him.
His political leanings are his business, and it's wrong to call him a liar. That's not the best way to discredit his beliefs.

Fair,

I didn't say: Fair you are fair. I said Fair you are Fair :-) thats the full quote if you want to be FAIR about it. HA!

Lunch!

Very funny Solo :)

Fact Check is not always right, especially when I have posted links here from Fact Check refuting some cherished Liberal issues. The problems are the loopholes and the various ways ACORN is indeed eligible for serious funding. Currently 14 States have ACORN voter registration fraud going on.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columns/special-editorial-reports/ACORN-got-53-million-in-federal-funds-since-94-now-eligible-for-up-to-8-billion-more-44406217.html

If you take all the progrma s in the Stimulus Bill Acorn COULD receive some estimates put it at 8.6 billion and others put is at just under 2 billion. I split the difference in my comment regarding the space program and raptors. Got to run, but certainly billions were within reach of ACORN and now perhaps they are not although the two smart senators from my home state Illinois voted to continue funding ACORN.

Gee, I wonder why? As we rail against Republicans let's not lose sight of where some big time corruption lies......

Chlo,

"I knew you'd agree with what Nash said about Big Business taking us over though."

There is going to be a G-20 summit at the end of this month...in China I believed.....they will be discussing how to further get control of everything..and we are just fighting each other: They will be the world first army to have world dominance...not with weapons, but with a one dollar pen........but ....my team is better than your team.....

I was supposed to have been out of here over an hour ago.
Solar, I'm going to check to see if you're around when I get back.

Thats, Solarman to you, like Tony says......Solo.??? but I do like the :)

Interesting take on two key figures in the Carter administration, in the wake of Jody Powell's death:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/16/opinion/16wed4.html?th&emc=th

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/were-all-czars-here.html#comment-260602

What ever it is......Im innocent over here.! It wasn't me, I was misunderstood, and you need your glasses....

All my info comes from Right Wing sites? First, Jamie, Democrats don't really have many military/intelligence/foreign policy sites. The Liberal sites tend to stay away from such matters as counterterrorism and security issues.

Slate, WAPO, NYT, WIred, FA, Bloomberg,Totten, CNN, NPR, Defense Tech, etc. are all just Partisan hacks?

Yes, I went to a LIberal highschool, A LIberal Arts college, played in a rock band, have black friends, non-white girlfriends, smoked my share of pot and always voted Democrat. So maybe there is something I see that has has nothing to do with some sudden change of heart.

I hate partisan BS no matter what side it drips from. I spare you all my cuts on Republicans BECAUSE YOU AIN'T REPUBLICANS. At American Thinker I blasted them until I was banned.

And one other fact. Out of highschool I vowed never to part of the "system" and be led by profit. I have intentionally thrown profit out the door to a huge personal detriment. I was an "artist" and "enlightened capitalist" charging just what I needed to survive. I never worked for a boss in my life and have little SS coming my way. I have little money saved, no secret stashes of gold or valuables and will exit this life perhaps with little more than I came into with unless a wife beats me or makes me get life insurance. I guess my cred was important to me and I NEVER have given up principle. I have yet to capitulate to anyone but my doctor and girlfriends. My positions are formed by my sense of balance and fairness no matter how screwed up some here they are. In other words, I have tried deliberately to lead a rather Liberal life to great expense to my wealth and mobility.

I rather doubt there are too many here that have quite a "Liberal" profile and I thank God, my health all these years held out. Especially the decade or so without a single medical check up. For that, I thank my family and the constant surivial instincts which kick in good karma. I have needed to fly far from establishment radar, to a greater extent than you can imagine based on my posts.

You are the body, I am antibody, but we share the same space and future. Sounds crazy, eh?

My slim pickings call...later

Bob, call me a conservative for dissing ACORN and yesterday explaining why the big stick works or the need to confront the Iranian threat which Obama ran on should "talks" fail. You are predictable at least. Well, then so is Anon. I guess Obama is a closet conservative too along with Hillary. Nice try to discredit through bad labels, but I forgive your incontrollable impulses.

Horsedooty, Fox said no such thing and repeatedly claimed many decent people work for ACORN. Get new talking points.

Max has a predictable selective reading deficiency. Here is what I said and I stand by my statement, "However, Max that is exactly how Faux Snooze is presenting the story to it's audiences."

ACORN has been on the conservative HIT LIST for years. This is just the latest push to wipe them out. This is the truth whether you admit it or not.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/were-all-czars-here.html#comment-260608

nice post Max.....and I do believe you...but you do sound a lot like a republican with some of your posts....not just one time...but almost all of the time....again I do like that you are against the established corps on both sides......

You get emotional when it comes to carter....I think that he has the guts to be an ex president, that continues to love this country ,and speaks out whenever he sees injustice, or anything else.......he is one of a few honest politicians, that have to be respected.....how many times did I hear that about Bush 41, and especially about B-43, " He may be wrong, but he does what he thinks is right....isn't this what Carter does??

"Yes, I went to a LIberal highschool, A LIberal Arts college, played in a rock band, have black friends, non-white girlfriends, smoked my share of pot and always voted Democrat."

I don't see this as making you a liberal Max. This just seems like you are a victim of life's circumstances. Joe S and Huckeberry played in rock bands.

LOL... new thread aside, you are definitely trying too hard when you cite supposed friendships with blacks as certification of self-ascribed "Liberalism". If people don't believe you, oh well...

NEW THREAD

NEW THREAD

IMO, anyone who aids and abets sex slavery deserves life w/o parole. Anyone who does so interstate deserves 10 years in Leavenworth, plus life w/o parole.

Whether it was the johns on the MN Vikings team three years ago, hugh hefner over the last 57 years, the evans gang, or elliot spitzer, people who contract, lure, or force other people across state lines for commercial sex abuse deserve 10 years hard. My opinion.

NEW THREAD