Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Woo Hoo, And all good trailmixers say go vote early and often for Craig... !!

Change?
What is the difference from Bush Co and Barack Co in terms of Iraq and Afghanistan?

Seems in one area there is no change. That in the War area.

Maybe Barack can take the appology tour and just go tell them we are sorry?

george carlin..........class clown.........good company I'd say........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h47Jd2szwHw

I dont want to hear sousa marches on the elvator......gimme a good old "girl from ipanema" or shut it off.......

VOTE FOR CRAIG!!! :)
I think we're a country gone mad...it's insane to try to fix these countries, and who are we to try? We've got problems up the wazoo at home, but we're still spending gazillions on this mess, while fighting whether insurance for everyone is a good idea...What the? We can't take care of our own! I hope the President spends some time in his speech next week explaining clearing what the health care plan is so those who want to know can finally have questions answered...because the good ole town hall meetings have been nothing but childish screaming matches. Awww, the home of the free.

From last thread:

"Inhofe gave his constituents plenty to worry about.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=298&articleid=20090902_298_0_GROVEP35689

“Every institution that has made this country the greatest nation in the world is under attack,” he said at the end of the 75-minute session.

During those 75 minutes, Inhofe said President Barack Obama is disarming the military, is destroying everything good about America and is determined to turn foreign terrorists loose on U.S. soil."

Once again the Republican Fascist Racist Bigoted Nazi's are trying to incite their base to Assassinate President Obama and still Obama just don't get it.

You can not negotiate with Terrorists and trying to will get you killed.

We the people gave you the White House and a majority in Congress and the Senate. Use what we gave or resign.

The same goes for all Democrats in the House or Senate. Give what you promised or don't expect us to show up to vote in 2010 or 2012. In fact if you won't give us what you promised you all may as well resign or go back too your offices and put a bullet in you head.

Posted by: anon-paranoid Author Profile Page | September 3, 2009 5:50 AM

Craig is at 39%.

Be careful Craig, Dana Milbank is searching for Swiftboaters. Charges will be that you got most of your recycled material from George Carlin by way of Mike Barnicle.

"In fact if you won't give us what you promised you all may as well resign or go back too your offices and put a bullet in you head."

I must be in a cynical sick mood but
lol
You tell em Anon.
:-)
Jack

So tell me why are we so opposed to the Taliban?
and why do we not want them to rule Afganistan.?
And just what is our national interest in Afganistan?
And what about that proxy war between Iran and Saudia Arabia in Yemen? (you know down there in oil country)

Jack

Have we forgotten the phrase

"what is our exit strategy"

Inquiring minds want to know.

Jack

And its 1 2 3 ,
What are we fighting for?
Don't tell me I don't give a damn,
Next stop is Afganistan

(sigh)
And so it goes, all of lbj's weaknesses and none of his strengths.

We are so screwed

Jack

"go vote early and often for Craig..."

ping, tsk, tsk, only if the rules allow. craig chastised us before on that sort of thing, saying he wants to win on the up and up.

craig, see your campaign promise is "universal baloney sandwiches" .... does that mean you're to be the single payer?

Nato, India, Pakistan and the US need to put a ring around that insane asylum and bring everybody else home. They want to be left in the 10th century, let them stay there.

jack, and maybe they plan for afghanistan to repay the war debts with opium like iraq was supposed to repay in oil.

better roll out the mission accomplished sign so we can get on with act iii

Oh and Good Morning.

Now here's a stimulus plan that might help.

Government needs to hire 270,000 people. Just bring the soldiers home and give them jobs

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/02/AR2009090203571.html?nav=rss_email/components

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/the-wouldbe-kings-of-aghanista.html#comment-257065

Patd
I'm sure it is a strictly byob (bring your own bread.)

As Craig lives in DC, I'm sure there is plenty of baloney just laying around. All you need is a skillet and fire.

Hummmmm
Wonder what we can find in DC that is flamable.

Jack

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/the-wouldbe-kings-of-aghanista.html#comment-257070

Jack

Don't need flame. There is lots of hot air

"Toga, toga, toga." "Do you mind if we dance with your dates"? That's what I was expecting the video to be about; the frat boys at the embassy in Kabul.

Well, if we didn't learn from watching the Soviets in Afghanistan... Ah, but that miserable-little-cave-dweller made us forget. If we had gone in there hard and fast with all we had, maybe... Ah, but for the Cheney, Rummy, Bush triumvirate.

-------

The conversation on MoJo about Diane Sawyer was very disheartening. If "woman" anchor is still part of the conversation, the sexism lives on. And then to come to the conclusion that with the advent of cable news, network anchoring isn't important and that why a woman is filling the position at ABC... Um, maybe it's because she's the best choice for the position over there. Jeez, people.
-----

cbob, fish, shmish. looks like we're already suffering from mercury exposure. at least our congress critters appear to be.

"...neurological component to this symptom complex: irritability, weakness of the proximal muscles, hypotonia, depressed reflexes, apathy, and withdrawal."
http://www.articlesbase.com/health-articles/mercury-exposure-in-humans-1152865.html

"they plan for afghanistan to repay the war debts with opium"

Patd

That's what happens when you leave those Neohippie Democrats in charge.

How about a Baloney Boat? Fry it up so it makes a bowl shape add mashpotato,es and bake chedder cheese on top !! yum yum

w'jack - What is our exit strategy? Well, we could be jerky and just text them: It wuz fun. It's not you, it's me. Let's B freinds...or we could just change our FB status to unengaged/redeployed to the US.

passing tho't re imus move to fox. change the phrase to "one more bull" ... where there's that much bs, there must be a bull or two.

ping - I like your idea for a wierd, little baloney shepard's pie!

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/the-wouldbe-kings-of-aghanista.html#comment-257072

Blue, I got PO'd earlier when Mika was stating the obvious and Joe jumped all over her. You want to decrease company expenses? Replace all the men with women. They work harder, better, and cost less.

In our current economy, that this little truth is destroying families and reducing middle class incomes is just a teeny weeny bit unfortunate.

Blue

Diane sawyer is the queen of gush. I tune into the local ABC affiliate for the morning weather and then often leave it on when GMA comes on.
She is not the best anchor from that show, she is not even the best woman anchor.
I'm glad she got the evening anchor position, that way I don't have to watch her.
I personally thing she is best suited for a Jerry Springer type show.

Meanwhile
MoJo sexist? Who would a thunk it.

Jack

Jack

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/03/opinion/03smith.html?th&emc=th

"Roosevelt: The Great Divider"

"PRESIDENT OBAMA’S apparent readiness to backtrack on the public insurance option in his health care package is not just a concession to his political opponents — this fixation on securing bipartisan support for health care reform suggests that the Democratic Party has forgotten how to govern and the White House has forgotten how to lead.

This was not true of Franklin Roosevelt and the Democratic Congresses that enacted the New Deal. With the exception of the Emergency Banking Act of 1933 (which gave the president authority to close the nation’s banks and which passed the House of Representatives unanimously), the principal legislative innovations of the 1930s were enacted over the vigorous opposition of a deeply entrenched minority. Majority rule, as Roosevelt saw it, did not require his opponents’ permission."

mornin'

Good work everyone - Poobah at 38% now has now more than doubled Milbank at 19. Don't be complacent, you know how these things can change in the last hours of a campaignafter the candiddate behind in the polling starts floating rumors.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/the-wouldbe-kings-of-aghanista.html#comment-257055

Oh my god, has the earth stopped turning on its axis? I agree with Ping first thing in the morning.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/the-wouldbe-kings-of-aghanista.html#comment-257072

blue, I've always thought Diane should have gotten that position when Charlie got it. But really, when there has been only one solo evening news anchor, it's hard to ignore the fact that Diane is a female (news chops aside, for me it's always been hard to ignore that she was female). :-)

Mac and cheese , baloney casserole
macarroni, velvetta cheese. a little milk, chopped up onion and a can of tomatoes all mixed together and put in a baking dish.
cover with thick slices of baloney cook until done and the baloney is a bit crispified around the edgedes.

jack

it's hard to ignore the fact that Diane is a female (news chops aside, for me it's always been hard to ignore that she was female). :-)

--pogo

lol.........skating on thin sexist ice there, Sharlie.......

I've always believed tha Baloney is best when it is crispified.
It removes the water and rendersit down to its pure essence.
Salt, grease and meat byproduct.

Jack

Do we want to start taking bets now? How many seats in House and Senate will Democrats lose in 2010 ... well they could gain, but it is the midterms folks

http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/article.php?id=AIA2009090301

You WILL like Baloney!.. And we will follow the Obama will and spend dollars to persuade and train us to like the Obama Baloney !!

Like HR 3247... is to energy, and the "talk" Obama wants to have with elementry kids... Lets make sure we keep going in lock step with the great Obama

after all - we need this so the talented and smart know it all BHO to correct our ways that have not created anything in our Country...

Thank you Barack, Thank you

when we were young and had fried baloney for supper it was never a thick slice homecut off a baloney log it was one of those 1/8 " slices like from the Clover Farm.......

Posted by: blueINdallas | September 3, 2009 7:57 AM

Blue - If you want to really get wild.. Add some green peas, or hot sauce of your choice.

The foundation of baloney boats can take you many places.

Obama on Afghanistan: "Send more troops."
Sounds like a winning strategy to me.

I'm surprised Craig is winning. I mean, haven't the American people gotten tired of all the bologna that people in Washington have been feeding therm?

word for the day -- Obamabaloney

Did anyone watch the townhall video on Mojo where a woman in a wheelchair was mocked and overrun by bullies? Those are your people, Joe S.

Battle of Cooch's Bridge (1777)

"...the only battle of the American Revolutionary War fought on Delaware soil, and marked the first time that the Stars and Stripes was flown in battle."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooch's_Bridge

People like to talk about "The lessons we learned in the Vietnam War." But we didn't learn ONE lesson. There are several competing versions.

Obama is obviously one of those who thinks "We could have won if the American people hadn't lost their nerve. All we needed was a few hundred thousand more troops."

It was the damn anti-war protestors and the news media coverage that undermined the public's will to win. If Obama really wants victory in Afghanistan, then all he needs to do is censor the press and suppress demonstrations with armed force.

Sorry, sturg, but hey, I ain't blind.

Jack, different strokes I guess. Evening newsreaders have become pleasant, attractive people who can clearly read teleprompters with an apparent natural inflection without blinking too much. They don't gather the news, don't write most of what they read and they don't decide what will be covered. Her cred is at least as good as Couric's, who was considered a lightweight re: news when she got the job, but she's doing well with it from what I can tell. Like I said, different strokes...

Mojo or whoever said cable news has diminished the role of evening newsanchors is slightly delusional - no, the evening news anchors' words are no longer the first word on what happended during the day, but they do hit with a lot more impact IMHO than anything you see on cable - CNN and BBC being the exceptions. Even CNN, which arguably has the only programming on cable that could be described as real news on this side of the pond doesn't even come close to touching the viewership of the worst evening news program - or at least that's my recollection of the numbers from a couple of months ago - Jamie seems to always have a handy link to those numbers, and could correct me if my impression is wrong. And I would have to say that the internet has had as much effect as cable has. You want crime crap and screaming about politics - you go to cable, you want news, you go to the internet and pull up what you used to run down the news stand to buy - which is still the only place you're likely to find anything of depth on whatever you have an interest in.

I hope this is a tolerant blog as I use tofu bologna -- we are still on our anti-cancer diet.

One of tofu's most challenging applications may be as a meat analogue. Light Foods Inc. (Seattle, Wash.) was the first to introduce a tofu-based line of meat analogs that includes hot doglike Light Links and a Tofu Bologna.

phoney baloney?

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/the-wouldbe-kings-of-aghanista.html#comment-257094

Nash,

I wonder if Obama isn't in the position of wondering just how to shut the whole mess down? We are talking a half million human beings that need to be moved with some degree of safety, not to mention all the potential political fall out if they wave goodbye.

Once you get them home a high percentage will be emotionally damaged, in need of jobs if leaving service, or something to do if staying in.

Classic proof that it is a whole lot easier to start a fight than it is to prevent it or end it.

must go to work earlier today...the townhall video on mojo was very upsetting for me. A woman in a wheelchair had her right to speak and these unseamly Americans bullied her! It was very telling to me and I further cannot figure out how these hateful idiots got so rich? How are they paying for their health care?

It sure makes me sad to be an American.

I like the idea of texting them. But how many Afghans have cell phones?

Maybe Obama can go over there and propose the public option and then we will get run out of town?!

I am very curious to see what Obama does re: the public option in the big speech.

I know I have been a strong opponent of the public option on this blog. But that position is primarly based on the fact that Obama has not sold the idea to a broad consensus of Americans - not just Congress.

warren

of course you are against public option...you are a government employee who has great insurance paid by the American people. It is very Marie A. of you!

Network News Numbers

The evening newscasts all saw some increase in viewership last week with NBC "Nightly News" once again leading the way in Total Viewers and the A25-54 demo. The week saw several special evening news broadcasts with anchors hustling to Hyannis Port and Boston following the passing of Sen. Ted Kennedy. ABC's "World News" saw its third consecutive week of viewership gains. The ABC average this week is for Mon-Thurs only.

Total Viewers: NBC: 7,860,000 / ABC: 7,080,000 / CBS: 5,390,000

A25-54 viewers: NBC: 2,480,000 / ABC: 1,980,000 / CBS: 1,600,000

Cable Ratings

The Scoreboard: Tuesday, Sept. 1
By Chris Ariens on Sep 02, 2009 04:20 PM25-54 demographic: (L +SD)

Total day: FNC: 433 | CNN: 145 | MSNBC: 130 | HLN: 185

Prime: FNC: 754 | CNN: 225 | MSNBC: 280 | HLN: 301
5p: 6p: 7p: 8p: 9p: 10p: 11p:

FNC Beck: Baier: Shep: O'Reilly: Hannity: Greta: O'Reilly:
629 446 447 901 695 660 510

CNN Blitzer: Blitzer: Dobbs: Brown: King: Cooper: Cooper:
103 126 81 151 300 223 239

MSNBC Matthews: EdShow: Matthews: Olbermann: Maddow: Olbermann: Maddow:
108 155 144 351 257 232 191

HLN Prime: Prime: Issues: Grace: Issues: Grace: Showbiz:
138 144 195 435 197 292 177

Warren

At no point have you told us what for profit Insurance Companies contribute to health care.

Doctors?
Hospitals?
Hospices?
Nurses?
Clinics?
Drugs?

Anything?

wino:

I have laid out my problems with a bill including the public option. Some of those problems can be alleviated by the Democrats outline exactly how it will be set up and run - and how much it will cost and how we will pay for it. I also proposed some alternatives to acheive some of the same ends sought by inclusion of the public option.

And the political problem I had with it can be alleviated by the Dems starting to win the message war.

But you are right - I hate sick old and poor people so I will never be for it....

Jamie, what's the site you get those numbers from?

gee.... I wonder why my stomach feels so queasy this morning..... :0)

actually.... between several major magazine articles and at least 4 hrs on NPR in the last month... there's been plenty of news about the war in Afghanistan lately.... and none of it good. And with Obama escalating troop numbers, this will now be seen as his war.

Jamie... methinks I see why Matthews has been a bit touchy of late.... his numbers don't even reach Maddow's reruns..... HA!

Jack.... you've been hot, hot, hot the last several days....

Jamie:

The have an infrastructure in place. Now I will grant you that part of the infrastructure is a nightmare since it is designed to dispute claims.

But there are also people that are satisfied with their insurance.

I am for reform and incremental change on this issue - especially at this time given the state of the economy and our deficit. I know that makes me very unpopular on this issue - but it does not make me uninformed or a flak for the insurance companies.

I also think reform should be a long term process. There should be an effort to attract more qualified individuals into the healthcare field. And if we do go with a public option - some planning needs to go into it to make it run as efficiently as possible - because it will be a massive operation which will only continue to grow.

Not just a single bill and then we move onto the next issue.

"I've always believed tha Baloney is best when it is crispified."

Same here!

jamie: I think Obama is afraid of being called "weak" by the right so he's escalating the war in Afghanistan.

This is a really stupid thing to do, but it's consistent with a lot of the other stupid things he's been doing.

Warren....
I'm in favor of a public option.... but I want to give you KUDOS for intelligently stating your position and not giving into the group think which is unfairly, IMO, giving you a pounding on this blog for your having the audacity of a differing opinion.....

Pogo

Digging around Media Bistro, TV Newser

http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/evening_news_ratings/evening_news_ratings_week_of_july_23_64170.asp

Yes, warren, some people are satisfied with private health insurance. The respective satisfaction numbers for insurance programs are about 20% lower for folks insured through private commercial carriers versus those insured by MC/MC.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/03/opinion/03kristof.html

And MC/MC also has infrastructure in place.

Oh, and the "how are we going to pay for it" argument falls away if there is a coverage mandate, whether there is a public option or not. But the answer is - under any circumstances, it will be cheaper through a public program than through any private one.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-ostroy/president-scarborough-mor_b_273620.html

Good analysis of why Joe Scarborough could win the Presidency in 2012.

Gawwd how I hate revisionist history. When the Afghan mission was outlined (and therefore got NATO onside) it was to retaliate for 911 (find bin Laden and his crew). The fact that "Afghanistan would be liberated" was an afterthought, a throw-in, a nice photo-op with girls in school for western countries. Iraq was a whole other story and one we'll never really know about. I watched Tom Ridge on Rachel the other night -- All revisionist history. There were UN inspectors ON THE GROUND (Hans Blix, best inspector in the world at that point) when the Bush Admin tried to bamboozle the security counsel. They DIDN'T buy it. So Bush went looking for the Coalition of the Willing (2 countries and about 9 soldiers from others).

So Obama wins the election (ya couldn't pay me enough to be POTUS!) and he's got 2 wars to try to slowly back out of. Funny how George Will isn't talking about "cut and run" at this point isnt it? Just HOW to ya get out of there without those horrible news shots of helicopters picking refugees off the roof of the embassy as American troops flee? There are so many contractors over there that the US would have to guarantee THEIR safety as well. This is a friggin MESS, all because the Bush admin IGNORED Afghanistan for 6 friggin YEARS.

So YOU be the president.. how do ya get out of these two messes?

This one's for you, Rez -- Wichita Eagle maps Oklahoma casinos....

http://projects.kansas.com/maps/oklahoma-casinos/

Renee

I really enjoy Maddow. There is always something in the show of the "I didn't know that" variety. Last nights "geeky" moment with the photograph of a molecule was fun.

FOX continues to prove that if your audience never watches anything else, your numbers look good.

The Networks still command the market no matter what the cable channels would like you to believe - millions versus thousands

If I remember correctly. Westmoreland, gave LBJ a choice: He told the pres. That he was in a loose-loose situation in V.N. He would be seen as week if we did not go to war. He said that there was no way to win the war....he chose war, and go a lot of people killed...he was no hero, at least on that front........I think the good he did was to try to make up for this Huge Mistake.

That is the only difference there is with obama and Afghanistan. He did inherit it from another pres. Mc Chrystel is telling obama that we need more, and more troops. We are in a new way of fighting them, every other month, a new strategy is needed, cos the enemy is using better tactics than we do.......where empires go to die....there is reason that this is said....it is true.!

Pogo, I agree about D. Sawyer....she is still very good looking, and part of who she is: I do think that she is conscious of her looks tho, she seems to cover herslef with her arms all of the time. I switch between abc, and cbs, for the morning weather, and for local news....won't even turn anything on that has an nbc on it....I haven't seen msnbc, or the C,. M, show for over a year, and haven't felt like punching out the t.v. ......

Warren,

My whole point about China: I started off saying how we don't need any country to be our friend in these troubling times. We don't need our # 1 partner in Crime... England, or any other country, we don't need Isreal, no one except China, they all need us, and we will go with whatever they want.....like the dry wall that was loaded with lead......it is only going to get w orse in that respect, ..imo......Don 1 is right also...the other one to watch is India....and a cpl of others...

we will do what ever China wants that is......

Jamie, thx. I'm terrible about either not saving links or forgetting where I saved them. Those numbers pretty much back up my recolllection - CNN during the 6:00 EST hour seems to get about 1/10 the viewers of CBS (the lowest of the 3 network newsers) and FNC's Bret Baier gets about 4/10 the viewers (which really is not bad at all) - and his is the only Fox show that could be called news, with the possible exception of Shepard Smith's at 7, which is not head to head with network news, so comparisons don't work. But combined, cable news in the news hour draws just over half what CBS pulls. I'm not sure what Joe was smoking when he or whoever proclaimed the effect of cable news on the nightly network anchors, but he needs to look at the numbers a little more closely.

Craig,

I don't hear too much about all of the hot shots, that Hillary appointed:

The best known ( that I like a lot) hot shot Richard Hollbrooke (spelling ?) he is in charge of the Af-Pak team. I think that they are in the dark; and don't know what to do....

Ty,

"There are so many contractors over there that the US would have to guarantee THEIR safety as well." Wait, I thought they were there to guarantee someone else's safety - they are security contractors after all. LOL. But my friend you are dead on on this issue, especially this, "This is a friggin MESS, all because the Bush admin IGNORED Afghanistan for 6 friggin YEARS."

Leaves starting to turn up there yet?

pogo:

"Oh, and the "how are we going to pay for it" argument falls away if there is a coverage mandate, whether there is a public option or not. But the answer is - under any circumstances, it will be cheaper through a public program than through any private one."

How are we going to pay for it - does not fall away. I understand that you will get young healthy people with mandates. But you will also get people who cannot afford to pay public or private premiums.

Now I am all for subsidizing private or public insurance by taxing the rich. But I do not want to start another unfunded govt entitlement program when we are already being told that Soc. Security, etc. is headed toward insolvency.

We can no longer say - we will worry about that later.

Once again, Trail Mixers have proved to be a powerful campaign team. But, as some have noted, I am braced for a counterattack from the birthers, birchers and swift boaters.

Last day of voting.. http://bit.ly/2sNIY0

Obama is not keeping ANY of his campaign promises.

In most cases, he is contuining Bush policies that he criticized during the campaign.

My new theory: Obama is actually a moderate Republican like Olympia Snowe.

Warren

We already pay for those who can't afford premiums in the most expensive way possible: By treating them at the hospital level when they are critical.

Those who have insurance but because of illness can't work and can't pay co pays or who have exhausted their maximum benefit either die or have their costs dropped on the tax payer.

If nothing else by moving steadily to a non profit insurance system, we will gain the 30% of the money the insurance companies keep for profits.

A Matt Taibbi take on how the media is sandbagging
health care reform and what in the end may prove
to be the reality of any health care reform efforts. Show
me the money.

"I've been getting phone calls from some folks in DC with some ugly stories about how the Democrats have systematically sandbagged the progressive opposition, with the White House pulling strings & levering the funding for various nonprofit groups in order to prevent them from airing ads attacking the insurance & pharmaceutical industries.

I suspect in the end this is going to be the main story of the health care reform effort, how the Democrats (& some progressive groups) sold out their constitiuents in exchange for financial contributions from the relevant industries."

http://trueslant.com/matttaibbi/2009/09/02/maria-bartiromo-presses-44-year-old-congressman-if-medicare-is-so-good-why-arent-you-on-it/

Nash

Tell that to Hannity.

Obama's primary focus during the campaign was the economy. And it has been stabilized. He also, at a political cost, passed a stimulus that will benefit many Democratic interests, such as education, for years to come.

Obama has pledged to close Gitmo and stopped enhanced interogation techniques.

He, along with Clinton and his Foreign Policy team, has been doing the leg work to increase diplomacy.

He signed bills right away re: children's health insurance and equal pay for women in the workplace.

And he has broken from the Bush stance of blind support for Israel and required them to make concessions to move the peace process forward.

It seems that you are ready to throw out Obama just because he has not yet embraced your stance on healthcare. And if that is the case, the Dems still have a lot to learn from the GOP about party loyalty and unity.

Klass Klown voting: Craig still leading at 39%.

Of course, once he wins, he won't keep any of his campaign promises:
- Fried baloney sandwiches for all the uninsured.
- Invasion of Britain to install democracy.
- Imus as middle-east peace envoy.

Jamie:

"We already pay for those who can't afford premiums in the most expensive way possible: By treating them at the hospital level when they are critical."

I agree. But those costs are spead out over everybody through increased costs. You are now asking that the bill for all that treatment be packaged together and be paid for by the govt's maxed out credit card.

Chuck Hagel - one of the few who seems to understand the difficulties of the Middle East.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/02/AR2009090202856.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

Yes, warren the argument does fall away, or at least it only becomes one of degree IF THERE IS A COVERAGE MANDATE. I agree that how ANY coverage mandate will be paid for is a legitimate question, and one that the admin needs to answer for its preferred plan and congress' houses need to answer for theirs, but it is not an argument for or against a public option if there is a mandate of coverage for "all" - has there been discussion of any unfunded mandate - other than as regards mandating that employers provide coverage or be fined? And to the extent that it might be an argument for or against a public mandate, the costs of the respective options would seem to favor a public option rather than argue against it, assuming of course that the public option had costs relative to private insurance that are similar to the MC/MC costs.

And finally, I'd argue that since if EVERY unisured American is covered under the plan (and that will never happen) only 1/6 of Americans would be covered under whatever option arises, that option, whether public or private, is incremental. If it's a public option that ultimately arises in the legislation, the viability of private insurers will likely make the public option grow incrementally as well.

Thought for the day :
" She`s learned to say things with her eyes that others waste time trying to put into words. "

I hope my vote counts this time as I've been on the wrong side of voting most of my adult life. You know, Al Gore, George McGovern, Eugene McCarthy, Al Gore again in 2008 (I'm the only one in AZ to vote for him automatically losing my vote), John Kerry, even Hubert Humphrey v. Nixon. So, if you lose Craig, it's because I felt it was my civic duty to caste a vote for a losing candidate. Nah, you're in!

Here's an interesting number: 68,200. The number of civilian contractors in Afghanistan.

Warren:
* Obama's economic team are Wall Street enablers who are already laying the groundwork for the next speculative bubble.
* He betrayed gay voters by not getting rid of "don't ask, don't tell," which he promised to do ASAP.
* He hasn't removed ONE soldier from Iraq yet, while planning to escalate Afghanistan.
* Gitmo is stll there.
* He caved in to the insurance industry. His health care "reform" bill will only increase their profits.
No public option. No cost controls.

According to HuffPo, support among Democrats for Obama's policies has fallen 15% in just 6 weeks.

Craig, Great video! (btw, you're at 39%)

They're always so outspoken in San Francisco.

Afghanistan looking more like Vietnam
"True, he doesn't seem a bit like Lyndon Johnson, but the way he's headed on Afghanistan, Barack Obama is threatened with a quagmire that could bog down his presidency. LBJ also had a progressive agenda in mind, beginning with his war on poverty, but it was soon overwhelmed by the cost and divisiveness engendered by a meaningless, and seemingly endless, war in Vietnam.

Meaningless is the right term for the Afghanistan war, too, because our bloody attempt to conquer this foreign land has nothing to do with its stated purpose of enhancing our national security. Just as the government of Vietnam was never a puppet of communist China or the Soviet Union, the Taliban is not a surrogate for al Qaeda. Involved in both instances was an American intrusion into a civil war whose passions and parameters we never fully have grasped and will always fail to control militarily." http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/09/03/EDE419HPL5.DTL

1913 Alan Ladd actor (Shane, Carpetbaggers, Boy on a Dolphin)
1914 Kitty Carlisle Hart New Orleans La, actress (Animal Crackers)
1942 Al Jardine rocker (Beachboys-In My Room)
1944 Valerie Perrine Galveston Tx, actress (Steam Bath, Superman, Lenny)
1965 Charlie Sheen actor (Carlos Estevez), NYC, actor (Wall St, Platoon)

1189 England's King Richard I (the Lion-Hearted) crowned in Westminster
1752 This day never happened nor the next 10 as England adopts Gregorian Calendar. People riot thinking the govt stole 11 days of their lives
1783 Treaty of Paris signed (ending the US Revolutionary War)
1865 Army commander in SC orders Freedmen's Bureau to stop seizing land
1891 Cottonpickers organize union & stage strike in Texas
1900 British annex Natal (South Africa)
1916 Allies turned back Germans in WW I's Battle of Verdun
1918 5 soldiers hanged for alleged participation in Houston riot of 1917
1925 Dirigible "Shenandoah" crashed near Caldwell Ohio, 13 die
1935 1st automobile to exceed 300 mph, Sir Malcolm Campbell (301.337 mph)
1939 Britain declares war on Germany. France follows 6 hours later quickly joined by Australia, New Zealand, South Africa & Canada
1940 1st showing of high definition color TV
1940 US gives Britain 50 destroyers in exchange for Newfoundland base lease
1943 Allies invade Italy
1964 Wilderness Act signed into law by President Lyndon B Johnson
1971 John Lennon leaves the UK for NYC, never to return
1971 Watergate team breaks into Daniel Ellsberg's doctor's office
1976 Viking 2 soft lands on Mars (Utopia), returns photos

8 months Nash. The President is elected for 4 years.

Go ahead and throw him out of office so this way you can scream at the TV when the Republican president addresses the nation.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/the-wouldbe-kings-of-aghanista.html#comment-257062

... when you put it that way Jack, it makes me realize how true the words are: 'Nothing is As it seems.'

Patsi, That was a great comment link you posted on the last thread. Well written and a good synopsis of what many are thinking and having trouble verbalizing.

"...the Dems still have a lot to learn from the GOP about party loyalty and unity."

warren, now THAT'S something we agree on completely!!

Obama's three main promises were reversing Bush policies on the wars (hasn't happened - shifting troops from cities to areas outside the cites in Iraq and upping the ante in Afghanistan was not the deal that was bargained for) and the economy (has, or at least is making a decent run at it) and changing government from the lobbyist run system it was under Bush (has not happened, and has not happened in spades). He also talked extensively about reversing the policies that dems saw as the unconstitutional abuses of power, rendition, unwarranted spying on us, and almost all the other stupid trappings of the post 9/11 world. The failure of Obama to reverse many of the Bush policies he loudly criticized in the election is what pisses off so many of the people who supported him. He's to be applauded for those steps he has taken, but much of what was promised doesn't seem to in the cards anymore.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/the-wouldbe-kings-of-aghanista.html#comment-257141

What Warren? You think Nash is going to single handedly throw Obama out of office and then put a Republican into office with his opinion and verbalizing of his frustration and disappointment in the man who he thought was different than the rest. When he called Obama a con-artist yesterday, I thought that was a brilliant way to put it. I wish I had thought of it.

Well done video this morning, Craig. I'll have to find a dvd and watch the Michael Caine film again. Maybe not this weekend though.

Obama's new strategy, looks a lot like the old Bush strategy: Throw more money, and more troops at it-at Af-pak that is.

I think that all roads lead to Pakistan....we will be shoring it up with billions of our tax $. We have committed our selves to fighting the boarder areas. I told Max a long time ago. t hat chasing the Taliban, from Afghan's western boarders, and making them go into Pakistan, was a big mistake......we just expanded our fighting arena, this way...this is one big reason that we need more, and more troops.......

nash just likes being contrary........lol

All anyone wanted, was to have someone in office that would fight for them, someone on their side. A lot of people hoped that Obama was that guy.

No one expected him to go in and be able to change everything. But it would sure be nice if he looked like he was fighting and trying. It would be nice if he seemed to have some understanding, some clue, of what's going on. Maybe he does, but I haven't heard anything from him that says he's trying and that he gets it. No transparency (as promised), no ability to explain to us (as Bill Clinton had). He hasn't shared with us any original thoughts whatsoever. Is it too much to ask that he just explain a few things to us, in his own words (instead of what his speech writers say).

I'm not mad, because I expected nothing. But I would be furious, if I had ever thought he meant what he said during the campaign.

SAME TIME TOMORROW
The Septembers of Lucille
http://seanholton.wordpress.com/

pogo

"Obama's three main promises were reversing Bush policies on the wars (hasn't happened - shifting troops from cities to areas outside the cites in Iraq and upping the ante in Afghanistan was not the deal that was bargained for)."

None of is this surprising given what Obama said on the campaign trail.

chloe:

"But it would sure be nice if he looked like he was fighting and trying."

Obama did not campaign as a fighter - and often took heat for not taking off the gloves sooner. Nevertheless, his strategy ended up working.

"no ability to explain to us (as Bill Clinton had)"

I totally disagree on this one. I believe that your point is too focused on healthcare.

-Healthcare is complicated and Obama has been intentionally vague in order to keep his options open

-And Bill Clinton failed on Healthcare and lost control of Congress

And calling Obama a "con-artist" who relies too much on speech writers are charges that can be made against almost any politician you are not happy with.

"I believe that your point is too focused on healthcare."

Nope, you're wrong Warren. You could count the times I've even mentioned health care here at TM on two or three fingers.

There was no hidden meaning between the lines of what I was say. Read the words and don't read between the lines. There's nothing there.

For what it's worth, I consider the constant war mongering our biggest problem now.

Methane Gas Likely Spewing Into The Oceans Through Vents In Sea Floor

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090902133637.htm

"And calling Obama a "con-artist" who relies too much on speech writers are charges that can be made against almost any politician you are not happy with."

If you consider that a justification, then it's humorous.

Ha! Have you been reading those Harlequin novels again, C-Bob?

Then laugh away.

warren, is there something ambiguous about all troops out of Iraq in 16 months? Now he did say - go after Bin Laden. Is that what's happening in Afghanistan? If so, no one's talking about that. But all that said, I didn't vote for him because he said those things and based his candidacy on them at least in part - I voted for him because McCain was a crazy old Repug bastard and Palin was a young stupid one.

"It is time for Democrats to remember that it was their party that brought America its most disastrous overseas adventure and to act forthrightly to pull their chosen president back from the abyss before it is too late." From that SF article

But now, lunch beckons. I must obey.

Chlo, I was going to say that you made a very fine post, but they are all very good, and true. If we saw that he was fighting for what he promised; even a cpl of things; then we would not be talking like this, we would all be talking like Warren. It is not that he has had little time to do anything; To me it is that he has done anything at all in the time that he has been in office....we are all still in the same pi rogue...later

Damn, lost two in a row, no lunch for me again, until I pay attention. Never mind I didn't have any breakfast......will stop at the first white-castle that I see....we used to call thier hamburgers "sliders"....

That right Solar.
The economy, the wars, health care. All biggies.
Another biggie. A President that will fight for us.
Remember the time Hillary got up on that stage, backed by a powerful governor, and said "Shame on you Barack Obama", while emotionally shaking the papers that she was holding in her hand. That's fighting, that's caring.

... take it easy on those sliders Solar. Not too many. :)

Have fun everybody. Gotta go.

Oh, and Warren. No hard feelings. Like I said, I'm not mad (and you have every right to fight for what you believe in too).

I see warren is still worried about the deficit while pushing for the most expensive methods of delivering health care.

If he was really worried about the deficit then he would be advocating for a single payer system like Canada has.
Government at all levels already spends enough for a Canadian style system.

When you add in the private spending then the US spends twice what anyone in the world does for health care.
So lets pay for the uninsured by eliminating just a bit of that waste.

Jack

Then again
Your waste is my big fat bonus

Patsi -
I never was one for novels , but I have a soft spot for mush . The credit goes to the This Day in History page, where I usually start the day on this infernal machine. Most times it's pretty good, if I don't paste one, it's because thought sucked putty balls.

I happened to see that American Masters was doing a program on Dalton Trumbol yesterday evening , so I made it a point to watch it.

What a show, what a man, what a writer .

Watch the bottom clip -

Closing Arguments

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/americanmasters/episodes/dalton-trumbo/video-scenes-from-the-film/1171/

AZ schools are giving parents the right to not have their children watch the president when he goes on tv in the classrooms to encourage them to get good grades. They'll either be given alternative assignments or will be excused for the day. Some parents believe the president will use the time to "indoctrinate" their children to "socialist ideas." (AZ Republic this morning) The right wing blogs are going ballistic about Obama talking to every school child in America at the same time. Here is a typical response: "how can we trust an administration that uses any means possible to move their agenda–-even the use of tactics that are scary, hypocritical and disingenuousness, including the appointment of over 44 Czars, some of which are radical in their ideology?"

If our schools give parents the right to opt out of this learning opportunity, will parents be able to opt out of chemistry, biology, social studies, or any other learning opportunity they don't like? This sounds like a formula for disaster in the public schools of the future!

" I am Spartacus "

CBob

I watched that last night and was absolutely mesmerized by the language and the conviction. The part about his daughter made me want to scream. We forget how ugly the "red scare" got. The sad part, it is still the same closed minded cretins still trying to do the same thing to people who actually have ideas and believe in generosity towards their fellow man.

eprof2 -

1752 This day never happened nor the next 10 as England adopts Gregorian Calendar. People riot thinking the govt stole 11 days of their lives

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/the-wouldbe-kings-of-aghanista.html#comment-257134

No I am asking that people who can't afford the exhorbitant rates to the insurance companies pay premiums to the Federal government. That State governments now paying exhorbitant fees to insurance companies pay premiums to the Federal government. That County and City governments now paying exhorbitant fees to the insurance companies pay premiums to the Federal government.

I want people to have the choice between the gougers and the government. That's why it is called an OPTION.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/the-wouldbe-kings-of-aghanista.html#comment-257083

jack, you could also line the bottom and sides of the casserole as well as the top with baloney, carefully dump it out of the loaf pan when cooked and voila! baloney wellington. or maybe baloney waterloo?

Some where in that massive amount of waste that we call a healthcare system is enough money to provide a basic health care package for the uninsured.

So warren go looking somewhere else for your budget balancing.

Jack

CBob: I guess history is filled with chicken littles and the sky is falling syndrome. Good one!

Nash - Andy has a point, but MoJo probably has 50 soundbites every day that could be used against him... whether he's playing devil's advocate or being a maroon (i.e., disagreeing with me)...less is more. That's pretty much how Obama beat Hil'ry.

Chloe - No transparency, no original thought, no ability to explain. In many ways, Obama is W.

Patd

I like it.

Maybe we should chop up some chicken dogs and add them for a little extra salt and grease.

Jack

we won't get out of afghanistan for two reasons

(1) not until the economy recovers. too many people in power think you have to have a war to keep people employed and fat cats purring.

(2) it's because of pakistan that we are continuing the afghani war now and even harder at it than before. afghanistan gives us cover.

"The future is horrific," says Charlie Veron, an Australian marine biologist who is widely regarded as the world's foremost expert on coral reefs. "There is no hope of reefs surviving to even mid-century in any form that we now recognise. If, and when, they go, they will take with them about one-third of the world's marine biodiversity. Then there is a domino effect, as reefs fail so will other ecosystems. This is the path of a mass extinction event, when most life, especially tropical marine life, goes extinct."

Alex Rogers, a coral expert with the Zoological Society of London, talks of an "absolute guarantee of their annihilation". And David Obura, another coral heavyweight and head of CORDIO East Africa, a research group in Kenya, is equally pessimistic: "I don't think reefs have much of a chance. And what's happening to reefs is a parable of what is going to happen to everything else."

These are desperate words, stripped of the usual scientific caveats and expressions of uncertainty, and they are a measure of the enormity of what's happening to our reefs.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/sep/02/coral-catastrophic-future

Imus signed with Fox Business News.

http://youhavetobethistalltogoonthisride.blogspot.com/2009/09/breaking-imus-signs-with-fox-business.html

warren, cbob has given us so many catastrophe-r-us links that you're wasting precious time worrying your sweet shylock head over budgets, deficits and such. heck, paliative care for everybody as the ship sinks.

To paraphrase Clayton Williams , " When you're being raped might well lay back and enjoy it. "

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/the-wouldbe-kings-of-aghanista.html#comment-257184

CBob

I would rather kill something instead.

Now on Politics (Un)Seriously: Uncle Sam Meets Helen Thomas.. http://bit.ly/gfnRG

Eminent marine researcher and former chief scientist of the Australian Institute of Marine Science Charlie Veron, who helped prepare the report, told The Age the Rudd Government-backed 450 ppm target would result in the complete death of the reef by 2050.

''Mr Rudd would not be supporting the 450 target if he knew the facts,'' Mr Veron said yesterday.

''This isn't a theory - all the science is incredibly concrete now and it is backed by everybody in the coral research field.''

http://www.theage.com.au/national/great-barrier-reef-faces-catastrophe-20090902-f8fv.html

really good quote (and so relevant to some of today's discussion/diatribe) from that link craig gave above:

"Helen Thomas, the deaconess of the White House Press Corps, gives the Uncler some good advice: "Don't go kill people and die for something that you can't even explain."

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/the-wouldbe-kings-of-aghanista.html#comment-257145

"Beknighted Mucker..." now there's a clever moniker for somebody to latch onto...

mystery of missing russian ship gets more and more mysterious

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8235647.stm

Electric bike turns back time

It looks weirder than a Segway but the Yike Bike's makers say its electric penny farthing is the answer to congested city streets.

http://media.theage.com.au/national/breaking-news/electric-bike-turns-back-time-712056.html?from=timeout

If I win today's FishbowlDC election, Miss America promises to let me borrow her tiara.. http://twitpic.com/gbu9f

Only hours left to vote.. http://bit.ly/2sNIY0

Tipping Points: What Wall Street and Nature Have in Common

When a big change is coming – be it in ocean circulation patterns, wildlife populations, or even the global economy – it is often heralded by telltale signs, scientists have found.

http://www.livescience.com/environment/090902-change-signals.html

Just returned by the skin of my teeth from the great dismal swamp known as Wally World. Trust me, it's safer here.;)

Ah. A Rudyard Kipling story as told by John Huston and Michael Caine. Excellent idea. And as history could have told us already, in Afghanistan nobody wins.

here is a look at my new abode. When the banks foreclose on this hovel, I can move into this.

http://thehootanddootcowboyfishingshow.blogspot.com/

Republicans never read history. It would interfere with their dreams.

Pogo... leaves aren't turning yet.. matter of fact, we suddenly got summer at beginning of August and it's continuing. Beauuuuuutiful day here!

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/the-wouldbe-kings-of-aghanista.html#comment-257196

I ventured out to the Safeway jungle for the monthly raid on the finances.

Afghanistan may even rank ahead of that prohibition against land wars in Russia.

Mad As Hell Doctors cross country rally starts in Seattle and Portland Sept 8

http://www.madashelldoctors.com/

No hard feelings either chloe! (Sorry for the delay - but I went to lunch). And everything seems a lot better after a "dirty bird" sandwich!

More on the Mad As Hell Doctors

javascript:WIDGETBOX.subscriber.Main.setIsSubscriber(undefined,false)

Ty, I thought it was a bit early, but it's been unseasonably mild here and I just thought that youse up in the great white north might be ahead of us.

Craig at 40%

We Are All Madoffs
Our relationship to the natural world is a Ponzi scheme

After World War II, business leaders worried how to keep the economy moving; their answer was to make consumption a fetish. "Our enormously productive economy demands that we make consumption our way of life, that we convert the buying and use of goods into rituals," wrote the retail analyst Victor Lebow. "We need things consumed, burned up, worn out, replaced, and discarded at an ever-increasing rate." And we have done just that. Even as average family size has declined in America, the average house size more than doubled from 1949 to 2006; Americans have used up as much of the earth's mineral resources since 1940 as all previous generations combined; and in the process, in the last two centuries the country has lost half of its wetlands, 95 percent of its old-growth forests, and 99 percent of its tall-grass prairies. Nor are those trends uniquely American or simply a result of advertising-driven consumerism: Over the last three decades, to take just one example, the pace of soil loss in Africa has increased twentyfold, with topsoil disappearing 20 to 40 times more rapidly than it is being replaced. Often, our Ponzi scheme derives less from the nefarious scams of greedy malefactors than as a side effect of how we treat the planet, in a largely innocent effort to get ahead, or merely to stay alive.

http://chronicle.com/article/We-Are-All-Madoffs/48182/?sid=cr&utm_source=cr&utm_medium=en

Iraq? Afghanistan? Why can't we invade a FUN country, like Jamaica?
-Young enlisted people in the military who just wanted to have a little fun after high school, before settling down and getting a boring job at Wal-Mart.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/the-wouldbe-kings-of-aghanista.html#comment-257199

True, Ty. Very.

"So warren go looking somewhere else for your budget balancing."

You might be onto something Jack. I think whatever Obama proposes re: healthcare - he should outline how much it will cost and how we will pay for it. For example, by rolling back Bush tax cuts.

But - he and his surrogates should also begin to outline some cost cutting measures in other areas. All that money spent on maintaining our empire seems like a good place to look and I am sure there are others.

The most effective attack on Obama for voters both on the right and in the center - is out of control spending. And he needs to address that in conjunction with healthcare reform - not after it.

I'm still convinced that we should have devastated Afghanistan infrastructure (not rebuild) and let the handful of warlords continue to fight it out with each other. We could have kept them at each others throats for years. If it becomes a haven for terrorists at least we know where to find them.........

Would've cost very few american lives and very little(in comparison) money.......we'll learn that lesson eventually at the cost of many US lives and gobs of money........

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=8474937

Your tax dollars at work - making the world safe for democracy. Me? I've never been that drunk.

warren, amen bruddah.

Say, start with a budget that gets rid of about 90% of all the bullshit - military and discretionary - that is of little or no value or promise, then veto the damn thing when it comes back to you with the bullshit restored. Put the pressure on Cngress to get rid of the bullshit by going before the American people - Oval office would be a nice setting - and explaining to them that both parties in Congress put the bullshit back in, and that you will not sign a budget if it's still in there. Uhhh, was that my alarm clock? Damn, I hate being waked up from a nice dream.

Obama's greatest weakness as President has been his unclear position on healthcare reform..

I hope he makes clear in his speech what is essential and how we pay for it.

It would also be helpful if his White House minions would not contradict his points within 24 hours.

Obama needs an infusion of FDR, a real transformational President for good.

Top countries to invade, if young enlisted people were in charge...
* Jamaica
* Cancun (that is a country, right?)
* Australia
* Antarctica (just kidding)
* Tahiti

Pogo.. geez.. hmmm... just thinking back to a couple of my idiot bosses over the years who thought THEIR subordinates should perform.. oh nevermind.. they got fired!!

I'll lead the invason of Cancun (I'm sure Mexico won't mind). I already know where the good restaurants are.

Really, it's no trouble.

OD, you been listening to Thom Hartman today?

Come across a good line re: healthcare:

"The issue of choice is a distraction - those who have means will always have choice."

Top countries Sarah Palin would invade if she becomes President.
* Iran
* North Korea
* Russia
* Canada (socialists on our border)
* Massachusetts (ditto)

"Our relationship to the natural world is a Ponzi scheme"

Actually, the more I think about it....my whole life has been a Ponzi scheme.

"It looks weirder than a Segway"

cbob, not if they raised the handlebars so that one could comfortably lean back in them while steering.

btw, there is a movement afoot on facebook. A bunch of people are posting this as their status update:

"No one should die because they cannot afford health care, and no one should go broke because they get sick. If you agree, please post this as your status for the rest of the day."

back from a friend taking me to lunch today cuz I'll be on the beach for my bd...

that Helen Thomas with Uncle Sam video was a hoot!.... she seems to have a great sense of humor..... I bet that's what attracts her to you, Craig.....

Nash.... well.... since Obama is a foreigner.... I think we should invade Hawaii...
attack the potheads over there.... even their skirts are made of "grass"....

It's obvious that our Pres is having difficulty in his job.
Why.........because he's never run anything before........

He has difficulty managing to come up with a clear, concise, uniform message among his own staff. Much less his much larger and diverse party.......

This should come as no surprise to anyone. He has relied solely on his ability to give speeches to propel him. To use a football analogy....he's great at kicking off and completely devoid of gameplan thereafter....

I'm afraid that the old professor adage is coming true for him........

Those that can DO.......those that can't TEACH or in his case PREACH........:)

pogo: Invasion of Cancun? I'll join you in the first wave ashore.

It'll be just like the beginning of "Saving Private Ryan," except, instead of soldiers with machine guns, we'll be met by waitstaff in bathing suits bearing trays of those fruity drinks with umbrellas and Mayan Indians with hand-made craft items.

War is hell.

we should have devastated Afghanistan infrastructure

Jax -
What infrastructure ?

Cbob,
Electricity, and the grid mainly.......would've taken years just to get back power in a small fraction of the country........

we should have devastated Afghanistan infrastructure

Oh I get it , we should have bombed till we made the rubble bounce.

AHA!!!

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/01/health/research/01aging.html?em

At this rate, I should remain (well maybe become) sharp as a tack as I moderately drink myself into old age.

Cbob,
As you've pointed out. it wouldn't have taken much. A very tactical removal of their elctrical infrastructure would have set them back years.......with a very small loss of life......

Then strategically play the warlords against each other....again.....no loss of American lives.......

Sounds completely heartless........The problem is that we're going to end up there anyway........we'll see

The AP has since reported that a hospital spokeswoman said the anti-reformer lost half his finger, though doctors reattached it and sent him home last night. "She says he had Medicare," the story states.

http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/09/eyewitness-tells-of-finger-biting-at-health-rally.php?ref=fpb

Yes, Nash, but the defense of liberty demands it, and by golly, we all have to do our part. (Pack light - it's Cancun, after all, and the t-shirts are 3 for $10 and you can get into the best restaurant in flip flops.)

Bob, of course he did.

Perhaps some of our more seasoned members could enlighten us. Are you obligated to take medicare when you turn 65? What about those of us the already have guaranteed VA benefits. Do I have both?

Jax -
The Afghan infrastructure consisted of donkeys, and human muscle.

We should never have been bombing the hell out of Afghanistan in the first place: All we did is assure that there will never be an end to terrorism; we just created more of them, from the civillians that are now out for revenge on us for killing their family members....we are confused over there-there are many more contractors (mercenary's ) than us forces...we take the good and the bad and train them, give them weapons.

Patd. we are thinking alike today ( scary I know , for you, for me, all I can do is get smarter hanging with U) It's all about Pakistan. For me:

Any cogent strategy must be built around realistic, achievable goals that involve U.S. national security. Our goals, as presently stated, involve turning Pakistan and Afghanistan into real countries with real security forces that civilian authorities are in control of and disrupting terrorist networks.....

We’ll never achieve those things, imo The Bananastans will always be warlord-ruled thuggeries; and it is impossible to disrupt terrorist networks when the only "sanctuaries" those networks need in order to operate are pockets large enough to carry an iPod. We can't win over there imo......and little by little; we will involve all of the coutry's around Afhganistan, and Iran.......the real goal over there is Irans oil IMO.......there is why we won't come home.!!!!!

Cbob,
Not true.....we left electric grid and cell grid (primary communications) intact and have been using $ to upgrade and expand it..........

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/the-wouldbe-kings-of-aghanista.html#comment-257241

Hear, hear, Solar!!!!!!

Patsi....
I second your "hear, hear" to Solar's 3:29....

In Kabul, for example, there were frequent blackouts, and in the city's poorer neighborhoods, homes averaged only four to five hours of power per week. More affluent neighborhoods received some power each night, and foreign embassies and the homes of upper-echelon party leaders were reported to receive power regularly, except during major stoppages. Outside Kabul the electric power supply was described as far worse. In Qandahar and Herat power was erratic, if available at all.

-----------------
Before the Soviet invasion in 1979, energy consumption per capita was among the world's lowest. However, as a result of war and the Soviets' development of the country's gas reserves, consumption levels increased. In 1992 the authorities stated that Kabul's winter requirement was 300 megawatts even though the installed capacity was only 150 megawatts. Between 1992 and 1996, much of the capital had no power. In 1993 the UNDP estimated that over 60 percent of the gas transmission lines were not functioning. In July 2000, the Taliban initiated a project to build an electrical grid from Afghanistan to Turkmenistan; however, the project has not progressed due to a lack of funds. Reports coming out of the country in 2001 indicated that the severe winter had claimed hundreds of Afghan lives.

http://www.nationsencyclopedia.com/economies/Asia-and-the-Pacific/Afghanistan-INFRASTRUCTURE-POWER-AND-COMMUNICATIONS.html
----------------------

Not exactly a target rich enviroment.

Thats why Isreal wants us, or them to invade Iran: If we can have a clear runway from Afhganistan, and from Iraq; iran is much easier to conquer, imo, and worth the loss of life, the minority, the poor white trash soldiers are expandable to the rich, and the brave.......they get us all killed for oil, and then back at home throw all that capitalist bull shit in our faces: Never once acknowledging that the poor are the ones making them even richer,...the Fuckin pigs that they are....then call some welfare queens, and illegals, and hicks, etc, etc,....once again, I say that we are the suckers, the dummies for sending them back to do the same things to us over, and over, its our fault....keep some of them around just to teach the new incoming ones,,,but just to teack them????

we left electric grid and cell grid (primary communications) intact and have been using $ to upgrade and expand it..........

So your solution now is to destroy what we built ???

One thing about a conservative is their complete inability to see past their own narrow world. 2 google searches and they start chasing their tail.

jax, I ain't that seasoned, but I don't believe you must take Medicare at 65. I read something the last day or two that suggested that currently you have the option to take private insurance, and I know my did was abole to take advantage of VA health benefits after 65 - but I can't recall the specifics.

Get a little mad when I think of all of the poor kids joining up for the $, and the false promises; when they enlist. One thing I liked about Charlie R angel; was that he spoke up about all of this.....and he told them the truth: Where are your sons and daughters, they are not fighting the wars that you have created......did the bush girls volunteer? that all volunteer stuff is all bs to me also,,,we should have a draft.......

Jax....
My father has both Medicare and VA benefits. He uses Medicare for his regular family physician. And he goes for a physical once a year at the VA hospital in order to take advantage of the cheaper medications through the VA.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/the-wouldbe-kings-of-aghanista.html#comment-257239

Jax

A lot of insurance policies drop people when they reach 65 or convert to a Medicare supplement policy.

As a Vet, look into Tri Care For Life. Again it is a Meciare wrap around to cover costs that aren't covered by Medicare

http://www.tricare.mil/mybenefit/ProfileFilter.do;jsessionid=KggVvq984c0SWQJJXNTJhSQC7Vnfh1h3qq5PZ8qMdhqrpDhQrn1c!1869056764?&CFID=69083113&CFTOKEN=93742960&puri=%2Fhome%2Foverview%2FPlans%2FForLife

This is why the Public Option isn't likely to put the insurance companies out of business. First because they will be picking up all those mandatory policies and second because even if people go for the basic public option, they will probably still want a supplemental for co pays and major medical.

Fairweather's song for the PM:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MXZCecet-s

The first version I ever heard of this was by a woman from Atlanta named Terri Gibbs who had a few hits on the country charts back in the 1980s. Gotta admit, though, Tony Bennett's is my favorite.

What Afghanistan needs is infrastructure

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/3560238/What-Afghanistan-needs-is-infrastructure.html

---------------
Jax-
85 % of Afghanistan are poor dirt farmers. Depriving people of something they don't enjoy this hardly the punishment your side of fence always uses as a default solution.

" When you ain't got nothin' you got nothin' to lose. "
B Dylan

Pogo,

I was looking for a white castle's to have lunch today; but couldn't pass up a Ricobennies, I used to go to the original in little Italy in Chicago, and now they are a chain....anyways I had an Italian steak with red sauce (had to bring half of it home) and freedom fries....and what made it a real treat- to boot, is that they had a cpl of old cars in the restaurant . a 1965 mustang, and a 1957 Chev. and the juke box was playing the oldies....I took my time, and enjoyed it all....what did you have??

Wait, wait. Flatus - where are you? I bet you know this stuff.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/the-wouldbe-kings-of-aghanista.html#comment-257254

Bob, I thought they were poppie farmers. :-)

Cbob,
I know it's inconvenient.....But if you'll read what I said that we should have left them with no infrastructure and left them alone........

Now we're there and we'll pay........

and Yes......I'd take my toys and leave them nothing except the rocks......

Cbob,
Those farmers were dirt poor when we arrived and will still be when we leave.

We removed the taliban with almost no loss of US lives using the imbedded warlords.....

We could have perpetuated that scenario for years and still be just as safe as we are now.........

Solar, I ended up at Panera Bread - had the new BBQ Chick salad. VERY good - but dayum, too many carbs for my diet. Now really, how am i supposed to lose weight by restricting carbs when all the good stuff is just full of the little f*ckers?

Well, I better run along - LP has a swim team tryout today - kid thinks swimming may be one of his "A" sports, so he wants to try and do some of it over the winter, shoehorned in among, soccer, basketball, track, guitar ...

Probably won't be around until Tuesday, unless there's WiFi where I'm going tomorrow. Have a good Labor Day weekend.

It seems odd that fully vested servicemen with full gov't run VA benefits continue to pay into another gov't run medical plan (medicare).

Doesn't that seem duplicitous...(did i spell that right)

" Almonds from California are cheaper in Kabul than those grown locally, because they are subsidised. The US is not allowed by law to assist the Afghans to grow any crop, such as cotton, which might compete with US farmers. The barriers set up by the EU against imports, from tariffs to red tape, are so high that last year the EU exported more than three times as much agricultural produce to Afghanistan than it imported in return. "

Jax -
We did leave them with no infrastructure , and then we left them alone.
After we used them as proxies against those bozos from Russia.
Then the Taliban came to power.
Then they hosted some folks who flew airplanes into some of our buildings.

Okay, listen up. I talk about healthcare every chance I get. I suppose I'm simply being selfish, wanting my children, grandchildren and great grandchildren to have the same excellent healthcare that Stinky and I have.

I suppose the reason the president declines pressing the issue is because he thinks he's not up to the task of convincing the American people that the right to healthcare must be a birthright for all Americans.

Ah Fairweather -- love me some Terri Gibbs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kEDU7m2z14

There was a women that had a little house for her and her family. After we bomb the shit out of parts of Afhganistan, she was surprised by 28 relatives looking for shelter: She took them all in: This was in the beginning of the year; wish that I knew how she-they are doing...would welcome someone like her in my family.......anytime. One of my Catholic sister in laws, that has a big house, with 4 bedrooms, once told one of my nephews that had just lost his home, that there wasn't enough room for him, his wife, and one 7 year old son. They are living with a cousin, and his wife now. They are non religious,,,well he is , and his wife is not.......

ps, I forgot: You guys keep talking about baloney.......the only baloney i like-is Tony Baloney...hahaha

From what I have seen Obama's address to school children will urge them to study hard.

The GOP has come out strongly against this, as it is their policy to be as stupid as possible.

Cbob,
We used the warlords to beat the Russians in the 80's could have controlled the Taliban with the same warlords in the 90's.....we chose not to.....Other priorities I guess.......

and as you said the rest is History........lets see where this new strategy of rebuilding and engagement gets us.......

I voted for Craig, and what good has it done ?

It's the same old system, with the big corporations running the internet, controlling the blogs, making news out of Brad & Angie, while ignoring Foreign Policy and changes in the tax code.

The more change I see, the less change I see. Who were these Craigobots who talked us into drinking the Kool Aid ?

( ;>D)<

Jax....
that only seems strange to you because you live in a city, Houston. When you live rurally.... like my parents... healthcare can come from a variety of places.

The VA hospital.... the only one in NH.... is a 2+ hour drive one way for my father. He has a primary doctor only 20 minutes away. His dentist is over the border in Massachusetts.... about a half hour drive.... and his eye doctor is 20 minutes, but in the opposite direction of his primary doctor.

Nash.... I bet Jax asks me which side of the highway my parents live on.... ;)

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/the-wouldbe-kings-of-aghanista.html#comment-257267

Oh, yeah. I loved this one. She has such a great soulful voice.

Conservative media take note: Reagan preached tax cut gospel to America’s students

On November 14, 1988, Reagan addressed and took questions from students from four area middle schools in the Old Executive Office Building. According to press secretary Marvin Fitzwater, the speech was broadcast live and rebroadcast by C-Span, and Instructional Television Network fed the program “t o schools nationwide on three different days.” Much of Reagan’s speech that day covered the American “vision of self-government” and the need “to keep faith with the unfinished vision of the greatness and wonder of America” but in the middle of the speech, the president went off on a tangent about the importance of low taxes:

http://mediamatters.org/blog/200909030020

Yeah, I'm with x-rep! After all, it's BEEN 13 hours!!

RR,

You've had your fun.....now how about answering the question.....

why do you think fully vested servicemen/women are required (no choice) to pay into another fully gov't run program when they have already earned one.......?

Jax....
I don't know what the fuck you're talkin' about..... and quite frankly.... I could care less....

I admit to being a Craigobot....
I have no power over it's influence on me....
God... please grant me the wisdom to overcome this deadly disease....

Laughs.......I guess that's about what I expected.......

I'm no blogging professional but I think that when you could care less about what someone is talking about you don't engage them in conversation.....

Just a hunch.....:)

Obama girl endorses my campaign.. http://twitpic.com/gck41

Voting ends at midnight.. http://bit.ly/2sNIY0

The suggestion that we could win in Afghanistan through destroying the infrastructure and making them dependent on us amuses me and gets me thinking.

We could withhold Almond Mocha Swirl, subprime mortgages, and Dancing with the Stars, too.

That'd bring 'em to their knees in a hurry.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/the-wouldbe-kings-of-aghanista.html#comment-257276

Jax-
The same reason that I have had to support the Coast Guard & Corps of Engineers all these years. Even though much of their work directly benefits people who own tugboat companies .

xrep,

Who said anything about making them dependent........

Cbob,
I know it probably hard to understand.....but Let's try again.

Coast guard and Army Corps.......two distinctly different missions....

Va and Medicare.......same mission....

Wanna try again.....:)

Jax....
this right here is the last time I'll make that mistake.....

hey.... maybe we could influence the Chinese to donate a large supply of donkey food to the Afghans.....

Laughs....promises promises......:)

Don't get your panties all in a wad.......
it's not becoming of you tough country gals........:)

Behind every " self - made - man " is a sea of tax dollars supporting their way of life.
I'm surrounded by them , my whole town is completely supported by other peoples taxes.
We're a large med center >>> Medicare Medicaid
We're a large college town >>> State & Fed taxes
We're a large cotton center >>> Fed Taxes

Yet, everyone of these pecker heads made it on his own.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/the-wouldbe-kings-of-aghanista.html#comment-257279

Baloney sandwiches. Endorsements. You only left out one thing--you need a campaign song.

Posted by: Colorado Bob | September 3, 2009 12:45 PM : "1752 This day never happened nor the next 10 as England adopts Gregorian Calendar. People riot thinking the govt stole 11 days of their lives"

I imagine that the Calendar Industry (then known as "Big Time") financed the dysinformation and organized the riots. No doubt, the ancestors of limbaugh and muckain claimed, "Englishmen enjoy the best Days of any Nation on Earth, but Walpole and the Liberals aim to destroy it." Meanwhile, the ancestors of Tired Of Reality and jaxtrader joined the rioters.

Laughs......OK Bob

Gotta run......all the best everybody

Jax -
Start dredging your own channels and installing your own navigation aids. And when one of you gets in trouble , save yourself.

Cbob,
I know it probably hard to understand.....
---------------------------------
Jax -

Understand completely , your fall back position is the Jell-o defense.
Once you get nailed , you simply slide off to the side. You're better at than Fritz was.

jaxtrader,

I made a logical leap w/o showing my work.

You wrote at 3:17, " Then strategically play the warlords against each other.... "

One simply cannot "play warlords against each other" without making some of them dependent. Therefore,
I used the phrase " destroying the infrastructure and making them dependent ".

I'm happy you asked.

I swear AOL should stand for Alarm Old Ladies. Just got another one of those ALL CAPS, multi colored, danger Will Robinson Ow OOOO Gah missives from my Conservative girl friend.

I swear they terrorize these poor people and then I have to talk them down off the ledge.

Imus coming to Fox Business October 5th. Will Craig still appear with him?

CBob....
at least Fritz didn't talk only about money.....

My blue corn is making ears. The stalks are only 2 ft high. All corn in this area is stunted due to 6 weeks of rain and below normal temperatures this summer. My father-in-law always grows the most spectacular gardens..... but even his looks like shit this year..... no tomatoes..... zucchini with nothing but blossom end rot....

right now I'd kill for a fresh garden tomato.... :0)

Man has finger bitten off in health care reform protest. Lucky for him he was on Medicare and could get it reattached

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hAkLGsyNutX4LzUQhcc2zUSHXqYgD9AFU16O0

Can I be poet laureate? specially for craig.. "I think that I shall never see and thing as lovely as a tree.." :)

Fritz!!!! FRITZ!!! I could NOT for the LIFE of me remember WHO it was who's posts gave me such headaches that I chose the nic Tylenol... it was FRITZ!!!

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/the-wouldbe-kings-of-aghanista.html#comment-257298

ubns

He already said that he couldn't because of his MSNBC contract. Too bad.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/the-wouldbe-kings-of-aghanista.html#comment-257269

Studying = Brainwashing...just say no!

Craig would give the faux news division of newsCrap the shred of respectability it has never had before.

murdoch would never approve such a change.

When I first heard Pres. Obama was going to be addressing school children next week - I thought they were referring to his speech to the Joint Session.

Bringing out the artillery for my candidacy, Contessa Brewer and Amy Robach.. http://twitpic.com/gcwuh

Voting ends at midnight.. http://bit.ly/2sNIY0

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/the-wouldbe-kings-of-aghanista.html#comment-257148

Chloe
Absolutely Brilliant posts today!! I wish i could say I never expected anything from Obama and I'm mad as hell at him.I believed Obama when he said he would get rid of Don't Ask Don't Tell..I listened to Daniel Choi the other day on POTUS XM radio.Daniel is being expelled from the military by the Obama administration for being gay! Daniel is a brilliant West Point graduate fluent in Arabic.Daniel is one of 285 the administration has expelled..Warren is right he never claimed to be a fighter and he isn't...Obama lacks political courage..
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/aaron-belkin/obama-to-fire-his-first-g_b_199070.html

"A new study, about to be published by a group of experts in military law, shows that President Obama does, in fact, have statutory, stroke-of-the-pen authority to suspend gay discharges. Obama could simply invoke his authority under federal law (10 U.S.C. §12305) to retain any member of the military he believes is essential to national security.

Or he could take advantage of a legal loophole. The "don't ask, don't tell" law requires the military to fire anyone found to be gay or lesbian. But there is nothing requiring the military to make such a finding. The president can order the military to stop investigating service members' sexuality."

Craig...
you're now at 42%.... you're slaughtering the competition!

"You guys keep talking about baloney.......the only baloney i like-is Tony Baloney...hahaha"

Solarman,
HA,you are liked too! You had some great posts today.I agree regarding Afghanistan and all the wars.President Obama is making a huge error, IMO.The price will be many life's gone and much money wasted...For what?

The Democratic and Republican parties have become caricatures of themselves.

(to be continued)

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/the-wouldbe-kings-of-aghanista.html#comment-257138

Nash,
You are Fab! I feel for you. I remember the passion you had for Obama.I never had any for him.I do keep hoping he will rise up and deliver the "Hope and Change" he promised,nope I haven't had a drink..Silly me..

Posted by: chloe | September 3, 2009 10:58 AM :
"Just as the government of Vietnam was never a puppet of communist China or the Soviet Union, the Taliban is not a surrogate for al Qaeda. Involved in both instances was an American intrusion into a civil war whose passions and parameters we never fully have grasped and will always fail to control militarily."

Na. The taliban gave aid and comfort to alqaeda. They refused to turn alqaeda over after 9/11, and continue to host the terrorists. Subsequently, the taliban went on record as supporting the aims of alqaeda, which include killing Americans anywhere on earth, and destroying American institutions until we surrender and convert to salafism. For practical purposes, the only difference between alqaeda and the taliban is nationality. They are essentially a single, unified organization.

If that doesn't make the taliban our enemy, then nothing does.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/the-wouldbe-kings-of-aghanista.html#comment-257302

Sorry for the flash back Ty.

Solar

We need a Global Marshall Plan for the so-called Third-World.

They had it right when they bluntly said after 9/11 - that to fight terrorism we "need to drain the swamp."

The good news about this - is that it is in our National Security interests - but also our Humanitarian and Economic interests.

Imagine if we spent a portion of the money that we spend on our empire, foreign wars of adventure, and counter-intelligence - just a portion - on building bridges instead of blowing them up.

The development of third-world countries will lead to greater stability and less of our resources will be spent on destruction.

That means more trade, more travel and less civilian casualties.

It will also allow for more cooperation on the major global issues of Nukes, Energy, the Environment and Hunger/Water.

"For practical purposes, the only difference between alqaeda and the taliban is nationality. They are essentially a single, unified organization."

Nah , there is a big difference between the two.
The Taliban is only interested in Afghanistan not in some greater Islam. The marrage of the Taliban and Al-qaeda is one of convienence.
Alqaeda needs a base to operate from and the Taliban needs the military support against their enemies.

Jack

lol CBob, it's ok.. your posts make up for it!

Warren,

That right: Just think of all of the things that we could do with all of the money that is used for wars, and for troops. Some people think that it is a good thing to have a military economy, I don't. What would we do with all of the troops home, and all of that money, that would be saved: Maybe start up the steel plants again, invest in more manufacturing jobs, and basicly do what we used to do.

Part of the reason that things are out of wack, is that the Unions, and the ceos have done their part in making it very expensive to live here...don't get me wrong. I am for Unions and a living wage and all of that....but not in agreement that the 90% of non union workers should pay for the other 10%. I don't think that anyone in the union should make 75.00 per hr. now I know that the worker (the one who does deserve it) should make a good wage..lets say around 20-25 per hr. How much does of the 50.00 that is left over goes for the greedy boses? how much of it goes for benifits, and how much of it goes for anywhere-where does it go.

We all have been asleep at the wheel, while someone else was steering the ship. Now its time to pay for our laziness imo.....that's why Im highly disappointed at mr. Obama, if we could have had H. C. for all...like Flatus just said...it should be a right of every American....period. If we had it, then we could compete with anyone, any country...think about it...we are/have been in a squeeze from the left and the rigt; and i think by design....but if we had the money to do the right things...there would be enough work for all of us...??? Yea I know Im a dreamer..

About Nuclear: Max also laughed at me, when I said that what we need is a nuclear bank, over at one of the Pak. countries (kurachi)
this would make it very easy to monitior, and hard to get at: While at the same time, be available to the countries for energy needs.....but later on Max, once again, came around to my thinking...well almost HA!, but he will....

Al-quaeda is friends with no one. They are sworn enemies of any state. Think about it.. they're sworn enemies of Saudi Arabia, Jordan, (once)Iraq, all the gulf states, and I'm pretty sure Iran's going to be on the enemies list pretty soon as well. The Taliban don't like invaders, whether they're Russians or Americans. Politics make strange bedfellows. The US armed the Taliban against Russia. oh wait.. Sadam too. Be careful who your friends are!

Obama is not a fighter. He really didn't have to fight to get elected. He was way ahead of Hillary for most of the primarys and he beat McCain easily. He's probably not used to having to fight to get what he wants. I just wanna give a shout out to Renee for using the word "audacity" earlier today. BTW, you owe Obama some money. He's got that word trademarked. LOL! Isn't is good to know that in America you can be the class clown and also write a book with Helen Thomas? USA! USA!

McCain who has single payer, government run health care plus full Senatorial benefits from Bethesda at any time says Obama thinks seniors are "expendable"

Two faces both ugly

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/09/03/mccain-expendable-seniors/

I am for the publc option!

It will be a great resource for small businesses.

There should a large corporation mandate. 25 employees and up.

A lot of small businesses consist of people that have a good idea - but don't have an HR department to take care of all these things.

If there was a public option - people could work for small businesses and not have to worry about good coverage. That would also make small businesses more competitive with large corporations. Many employees and funnelled into big corps because of the security of good insurance.

And here is the good thing about the public option. Transparency. Republicans love to tout competition. But competition in a complicated industry like insurance only needs to confusion.

In all my jobs - I rely on the HR dept. to tell which is the best plan for me. I read some of the paperwork - but even as a lawyer I can't figure that stuff out.

I sure as hell wouldn't want to be surfing around the internet to see which shark insruance company I am going to give my money to.

With the public option - people can know that they will have good coverage. And there won't be any fine print.

And even if there is - the media will be able to act as people's lawyers and explain to people what benefits they get. (Of course there will be plenty of misinformation - so it will be incumbent on the govt to put together a 2-3 page plain language document that lays out the basics.)

Now herein lies the rub. I think this will be great in the short-term. But we really have to be careful going forward. Carefully monitoring and reporting the revenue and costs. If the insurance companies can make billions on top of their corporate excess and the millions they spend disputing claims - I don't see why the govt can't at least break even while providing a comparable product.

There also has to be a board that sets forth the insured's bill of rights. A board made up of respected doctors, politicians, insurance industry leaders, lawyers and others - needs to lay out as clearly as possible what the plan will and will not cover.

As I have mentioned - it will be politically explosive for the govt to be making discretionary calls in life and death situations.

And I think if the Dems are going to sell the public option - they will need to deal with the abortion issue.

I wonder how old bye-bye billary assesses the obama performance so far............just curious, I suppose......

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/the-wouldbe-kings-of-aghanista.html#comment-257322

Corey
I never thought of it that way.Your right.."He's probably not used to having to fight to get what he wants."

Aghanistan? first line of today's CCpost.......

SUMMERVILLE -- Whenever Dawn and Matthew Sechevich hear how health care reform might lead to government intervention in matters of life and death, the thought doesn't bother them much.

That's because they feel their health insurance company let them down profoundly a few years ago, after their 2-year-old son's cancer had returned in his spine and paralyzed him from the waist down. The company refused to pay for Luke's stem-cell transplant on the grounds that it was too experimental.

"They said basically that they were telling us it was time to give up. We weren't ready to give up," Dawn Sechevich said.

"It was as if they were an insurance company 'death panel' that decided the survivability wasn't worth it," Matthew Sechevich added. "I can tell you that you shouldn't be afraid of the government like you should the insurance companies."

The Secheviches are among several hundred Lowcountry voters expected to attend U.S. Rep. Henry Brown's town hall meeting at 7 tonight at the Charleston Area Convention Center.

http://www.postandcourier.com/news/2009/sep/03/care-nightmare/

Vatican to give Queen Elizabeth a copy of Henry VIII divorce petition

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article6817557.ece

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/the-wouldbe-kings-of-aghanista.html#comment-257325

Sturge,
Mr.Democrat too??

tony.......him too......lol

This appeared on Twitter:

Prediction: Tomorrow, conservatives will do something incredibly f***ing stupid, and we will all talk about it.

Sounds about right.

"As I have mentioned - it will be politically explosive for the govt to be making discretionary calls in life and death situations."

Warren,
Very good post.Damn,your a detailed thinker.I agree it could be politically explosive for the government to be making calls on life and death.If the case can be made that the for profit insurance companies do that now,well that should mute the politics some.If we take the profit out of health care with a public option maybe it won't be an issue?

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/the-wouldbe-kings-of-aghanista.html#comment-257307

Craig, you pull no punches!

"Aghanistan"?

Speaking of punches...am I missing a "punchheadline?" I know I'm usually the last one to get a joke...sorry.

newpogo..I haven't listened to Thom Hartmann today.
I do listen once in awhile. In addition to his national show, he appears fairly regularly on the local 620 show prior to the national broadcast.

I find Thom pretty boring..I don't think the man has a sense of humor. I also think he often speaks down to his listeners. If you have trouble getting to sleep, try a few pages of any book he has written.

Once I attended an event at Powell's Bookstore and two older gentlemen in the back row actually fell asleep.

Ivy

Take your pick - poor typing or merging the name of the country with "agony"

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/the-wouldbe-kings-of-aghanista.html#comment-257326

Corey/Tony:

OMG. Do you think he "wanted" his dad to die when he was young. Do you think he "wanted" to live off with his grandparents when his mom was halfway across the world.

And you think it was easy for him to become the first black president of the Harvard Law Review - much less just get into Harvard!! No - he had to bust his ass.

He didn't come from a powerful political family. Or even a well off family. He rose on his intelligence, his political skills and hard work. He has a long record of public serve despite being a relatively young man.

I think Obama is used to dealing with adverse circumstances which is why he is cool under pressure. He also doesn't have a sense of entitlement.

And the love affair with Obama is over - so people can quit saying the guy gets a free pass (even though Hannity still will). The guy has been bloodied up the last few months - and I think it will be good for him. Especially if he can accomplish what he set out to do.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/the-wouldbe-kings-of-aghanista.html#comment-257336

Jamie --

I like the second choice...very punny!

(^_~)

I hope Obama hits it out of the park when he speaks to Congress.

Public Option Now!

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/the-wouldbe-kings-of-aghanista.html#comment-257337

Warren
I don't think he's had to work hard politically at all!! His supporter's never demanded much from him besides the words "Hope and Change"and that BS won't work when your President.."The guy has been bloodied up the last few months - and I think it will be good for him."On this we can agree even though much of it is his own fault! He needs to fight back by taking a stand on healthcare,rather than being mr. wishy washy..I want him to succeed,but I refuse, as I used to tell Brian to put on that pink cheerleader suit and pretend all his fine words are getting the job done...Besides he has enough people doing that for him now and that's part of the problem..IMO

One more for the road:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-E63NXKavM

Nite all.

"I don't think he's had to work hard politically at all!!"

If you mean he didn't kiss enough ass and tow the party line for decades - then I agree. And I am glad.

And all that "Hope" stuff seemed to work pretty well for JFK, Reagan and Bill Clinton.

"If you mean he didn't kiss enough ass and tow the party line for decades - then I agree. And I am glad."

Disagree.Obama's kissed plenty of ass,just like every other politician.Obama's typical in that regard..

Fair

Come back. As much as I love Baryshnikov dancing to One For My Baby, this version before both Baryshnikov and Sinatra is my favorite

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FD7sqGJ3NBg

As someone who this year alone has nearly been killed twice courtesy of the lazy, greedy inanity of the FDA (which once was the equivalent of a Nobel Prize committee and now is run with all the integrity, honor and intelligence of the Golden Globes), I haven't much to say about healthcare except this --

Here's a link to a video of Richard Pimentel telling one of his stories. He'd fit in fine here with CBob, Pogo (new and old), Dexter, Jamie, Sturge, blonde wino and more than a few others. He'd fit in with Craig at least as well as Helen Thomas does.

I know that is saying a lot about who this Pimentel would have to be. When you get to know him and his life, you'll understand how that comparison is the highest praise I could offer anyone, even Helen Thomas.

Without Pimentel there'd very possibly be no Americans with Disabilities Act.

Check that.

Most likely what you'd have is what we are going to get with health care... a mostly useless mess.

In fact, it took Pimentel 15 years to clear up the Congressional idiocy in the bill in the other year's revision of it that managed to include conditions the Congress seemed to decide disabled no one really because they might have a good half hour every now and then.

Conditions like, say.... MS.

And he did it.

This video you can watch now is about 10000 times better than Guthrie's Alice in Wonderland.

It's one of the funniest stories told in the best of ways by a deaf Vietnam vet about a 3 AM pancake date with his best friend, an evil genius of life with the worst possible sort of cerebral palsy.

This -- not Obama, not any politician but One Of Us -- who can infiltrate government as he did and create a genuine movement against all sorts of opposition, ignorance and prejudice to change lives for the better.

If you like, go rent a pretty unforgettable movie about him. Its title is Music Within. (If you're an Oliver Douglas Holmes fan, you'll get its name. If not, it gets explained.)

The cast stars Ron Livingston (of Office Space and SATC) as Pimentel along with a man who may be the most gifted and startling film actor around just now, Michael Sheen as Art Honeyman. (You may have seen Sheen as Tony Blair in The Queen and David Frost in Frost and Nixon.)

Watch this video. You will laugh. You will want to know more.

Get to know him better and you may start to know just how you can do more.

And you may find what it takes (besides, of course, the most effective form of human activity -- blog comment posting) to create the sort of change that isn't about belief and hope but getting the nitty and gritty and the all too human back to work again for the benefit of those people I believe we still call Americans.

Here's the video link...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWs6akMfs5o#watch-main-area

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/the-wouldbe-kings-of-aghanista.html#comment-257307

Craig zooms up to 43%

My point is that Obama hasn't had to fight hard politically recently . I'm talking about the Presidential election and since then. He's gonna have to fight get things accomplished now. He can't sit back and hope Congress and the Senate do this with him having a hands-off approach.

Public Option Now!!!!

Town hall meetings are full of people who believe they are fighting against being taken over by government & really seem oblivious to the fact the health care option will hopefully free us from really being taking over but by the corporations. They have spunk but its a shame they don't realize its either go with Obama or back the big healthcare industry giants. They should all be screaming "public option"

Here's an important article by Krugman:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/06/magazine/06Economic-t.html?_r=1&hp=&pagewanted=all

It's important because he's finally capitulated to reality by dumping his neo-Keynesian rhetoric and by embracing a marriage of financial theory with classical Keynesian practice.

I have to chuckle because last summer before the bubble burst, I thought Krugman, with his post-everything-bad economics, was full of it and said so.

Long live Keynes.

Well, if Democrats want to take the high ground, they might want to be honest.

http://www.rr.com/news/topic/article/rr/9000/8818706/FACT_CHECK_Biden_ignores_problems_with_stimulus

The Stimulus package started the downward trend. To spin this as Biden and Obama do, does a great disservice. It speaks directly to honesty. It was poorly put together and violated the spirit of the sales pitch. Just read how many things Biden touts are just plain wrong.

The energy bill followed and we know what happened to that. I will note that BP has found significant new oil in the G of M and the rush by countries other than the US is profound. We suspend aid to Honduras as the very people who support the ex president's dream of czarness vilify Obama for "creating forward attack bases" in Columbia.

We see on the Democratic side. mixed messages, faulty facts, bad gamesmanship and beating the Bush drum. On top of that I think Panetta is on the verge of resigning.

Then recently we have the healthcare mess and I have championed reform without the public option for months, even before I knew what Blue Dogs were going to do. If the criteria is covering the uninsured and LOWERING COSTS while keeping up quality, what followed from Congress was another perversion. Making Private insurance compete with government is like say BUY AMERICAN is free trade. Id Medicare or Medicaid is the glorified model, then why is it bankrupt?

Let's see. Will Obama move to the center in his health care speech, or try another attempt to repackage a bad idea? Most studies have figured defensive medicine costs more than 200 billion a year, but as long as lawyers have Democrats scared, they won't go after that savings. The projections on preventitive medicine and stream lining paperwork will not achieve the savings anticipated. Christ, Obama can't even get the deficit numbers correct and I wish he would stop saying 47 million uninsured. We certainly need immigration reform if we don't want 15 million illegals using the ER, don't we. And if we don't subsequently enforce workplace laws then more illegals will come and the country won't pass reform. You see, the country is far more centrist than the line Democrats say is center.

Well that's my rant tonight. I hope you are all well and my best wishes for everyone.

Sorry Corey -

" Obama is not a fighter. He really didn't have to fight to get elected "

You may want to think about that statement , Hoss.

This is the 1st Black president of the United States. Raised in a single parent ( Read NO FATHER ) , lower middle class household.

Let's not turn him into fish chum so fast folks.

I've never been an admirer of Obama and that has not changed,,but,,

Let's see what he does with his speech to Congress.
This will be test as to whether he has learned from his mistakes.

I believe in political redemption.

I know that I will be too anxious to wath the speech live, but I hope the reports will give us all encouragement.

meanwhile . . . back at the ranch:

North Korea says uranium enrichment in final stage

SEOUL, South Korea – North Korea said Friday that it is in the final stages of enriching uranium, a process that could give the nation a second way to make nuclear bombs in addition to its known plutonium-based program.

North Korea informed the U.N. Security Council it is forging ahead with its nuclear programs in spite of international calls to abandon its atomic ambitions, the official Korean Central News Agency said in a report early Friday.

The dispatch said plutonium "is being weaponized," and that uranium enrichment — a program North Korea revealed in recent months — was entering the "completion phase."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_nkorea_nuclear

Polls close in seven minutes, vote if you haven't already, looks like we'll need to start planning the Trail Mix Administration.. http://bit.ly/2sNIY0

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/09/the-wouldbe-kings-of-aghanista.html#comment-257356

What do we call you? Mr. Clown? Your Clownness?:D

It is nice to have someone I voted for finally win. Even in November, I wrote in Hillary.

We're all in trouble about our predictions when this guy has a come to Jesus moment.
Attention political junkies -
When did JFK get beaten like a drum by a man who was at the Battle of Stalingrad ? How many months into his tenure ? Ping's voice was cheapping even then ..... " This man is too young, this man is untested , This man is a Commie ". Read the Dallas papers folks if you missed it in living color.

Now the country want's to kill yet another Democrat .
What's changed ?
Well we got a whole new segment, that don't like him because he don't have a uterus. JFK never had that problem .
We got another segment that don't like him , because he hasn't handled the right wing furballs yet another knife. Don't Ask Don't Tell ?
JKF didn't have that political beach to defend.
Vermont came on board this fucking month. You're winning , don't sit on your hands.
All that wasn't in LBJ's political pinball machine , when he was cuttin' deals.
Here's yer choice folks ........ Obama or Inhofe.

Like 2 sides of a razor blade. Not a long sloping valley, where men and women meet to trade.
To use the Roman metaphor, Inhofe has plenty of knives stashed in the Senate . And a whole belt of them under his toga,
Maybe history is right , maybe Obama knows it. History bends , if Obama turns the wheel more , we all will flip over.

I would remind the reader we are all " Rounding the Horn " in a clipper ship. Beating into the " Roaring Forties". And we're all screaming our lungs out at the captain. 45 % of the crew is in open mutiny from drinking salt water , and losing their minds.

Oh and did I mention the captain's Black.

History question ?

What if Lincoln had just shot all those Democrats , and took their land ?
Now there's a novel.

Sherman would have marched straight back to South Carolina.

Forget that plot line we .... might lose Sturg. And then we would be all poorer.

Captain Red Legs on settlin' scores down in Texas. -

" Plenty of work to do down in Texas. "

Afghanistan is as big as Texas.

Except Afghanistan has a lot more Comache's.

This just released to Trail Mix by a campaign spokesperson: "Polls are closed, but our candidate awaits official results and will address supporters in this space at noon on Friday".. http://bit.ly/2sNIY0

woodchip boilers in scotland (with a pic thrown in of a hieland coo?) at the treshnish farm on the isle of mull
**********************************************************
http://haunnblackhouse.blogspot.com/

Over the next couple of years we looked at the other options and the one which stood out was the biomass, particularly as now there was a woodchip supplier on the island - within 15 miles of here. We tried for the Low Carbon Buildings Programme grant in 2007 but that didn't work out so we waited for the launch of the Scottish Rural Development Programme in 2008 and submitted our woodchip project in the first round of grant applications. It was worth waiting for as we were one of the first projects to get approval.

Now the Treshnish Renewables project could begin.

We chose Highland Wood Energy as installers. Based in Fort William, they seemed within easy reach and they had already installed 3 other woodchip boilers on the island. Our Froling 70 kW boiler with 1,800L accumulator tank housed in a shipping container was the first system of its size and kind to be installed on the island.

I think the isle of mull is located very close to the isle of lucy.......

Barbara Lynn Ozen - gauchère fameuse originaire du Texas - en '66*. Aujourd'hui, Barbara monte encore sur scène pour jouer le blues et le rythm'n'blues.

little girl from beaumont texas:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAnSyQA_fT4

i just realized what all i have to do today.........

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_zvf2iiuu_wM/SqDbEUqrbhI/AAAAAAAAAsA/a3gleuQJqTU/s1600-h/A+la+mieeerdaaaaaaa.jpg

kay kyser tells of 3 little fishes and how they grew.......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzEOjPhuTGo&feature=related

labor day weekend..........that's supposed to be a holiday, I take it..........ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha...........quel irony.........

(see my post at 5:25 AM)