Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Woo Hoo?

Craig - Another Great question - Will President Barack Obama's health overhaul stand a chance against the rising tide of lobbyist spending?

Define Lobbyist - It seems President Barack is the chef among all Lobbyist as he goes into full campaign mode and he is spending our money to make the case to put a Check Mark in the box - Pump Chest and say I did it - I got mislabled Healthcare NotReform done- that getting it done fast is more important then doing it right.

Sounds like it's time to sequester our Congress Critters at Andrews AFB until they come to grips with the underlying problems and most proactive solutions.

Obviously, this should be done sans lobbyists. Each critter should be accompanied by a stenographer and the critter's chief of staff. No one else. Cell phones will be blocked with the exception of three 15-minute periods spread through the day.

Flatus

You are making a doubtful assumption. When you assume our congress critters have the ability to comprehend the underlying problems or develop any workable solution

Off to work Later

Jack

On our congress critters, I alternate between are they corrupt or stupid.
Yesterday I thought they were corrupt, today I vote for just plain stupid.

The cynical part of me always bets they are both, He wins a lot of bets.

Jack

"I alternate between are they corrupt or stupid -- posted by whskyjack"

ha, whsky, well it's safe to say that those who get caught are BOTH

craig lurks! So do you as the masterful leader of trailmix feel Pres Obama will get to put a check mark in the box regardless of quality and depth of the healthcare spending?

well ping, if all americans get access to affordable health insurance that'll be a heck of a check mark

Ping

There is a difference between a lobbyist and the president advocating his agenda.
"Define Lobbyist - It seems President Barack is the chef among all Lobbyist as he goes into full campaign mode ping"

Define lobbyist again you failed this time!

Harry Potter character gets community service for growing pot.

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20090721/D99IQU602.html

Too bad Congress won't legalize pot it could help with the deficit.

KGC.. I am glad to see the balance is back ,, I too was very interested to see that we did have some agreement the other day.

Too bad Congress won't legalize pot it could help with the deficit.

Posted by: anon-paranoid Author Profile Page | July 21, 2009 8:45 AM

I'll associate myself with these remarks

Ping
You are indeed the loyal opposition or is it loyal contrarian

Craig - I think we can all agree that access to healthcare should be available to all American Citizens.
The question of Affordable is the big one - So does low cost or free to the individual but at record setting deficit spending that will bankrupt our country without a focus on the core and real issues put a check mark in Baracks Box of task lists?

Off to my Captialistic free market not borrowing from the fed but waiting for the spendulus trickle over world

KGC... Thanks.. And loyal to all true trailmixers !!

See yall later

kudos once again to Ping for taking arrows with grace and good humor. do wish he had some help now and then, but he holds his own regardless.

Ping

What deficit?
For what the government spends right now percapita we could have the Canadian health care plan.

From pogos link yesterday, only half of the spending on health care is government spending. when you include all the spending that private industry does this nation spends almost twice what anybody else does yet we get less for it.

We should be able to have the best health care in the world and put money in the bank too

What you need to be asking is where is all that money going, because right now it ain't going for health care.

lol
Follow the money

Jack

By the way, all, it's a big day for CQ -- we find out at 10am who bought us. More later. I'll be away from my blogging machine, so i'll try to tweet with my smart phone when we get the official word: http://twitter.com/craig_crawford

mornin'

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/harry-and-louise-switch-sides.html#comment-245252

Repost - helps if you post to the current thread. :-)

You know, I don't think the healthcare proposals in the senate or house look like they have much in the way of silver bullets in their chambers if containing healthcare costs directly is the measure. Trying to put together a comprehensive bill that would do both - if that is even possible - is IMO a fool's errand, and would be doomed for failure. It does seem to me that a public option, available at a reasonable cost (and yes, subsiudeized with my tax dollars - and I do not have aproblem with that) will help to bring the health insurance providers into line IF they decide to try and compete with it. If they continue to compete only with each other for private insurance purchasers, who presumably want broader coverage than a public option might offer, then the public option will mostly just expand coverage.

And Ping is just being snarky about the Pres as lobbyist.

By the way, all, it's a big day for CQ -- we find out at 10am who bought us. More later. I'll be away from my blogging machine, so i'll try to tweet with my smart phone when we get the official word: http://twitter.com/craig_crawford

Posted by: craigcrawford.myopenid.com | July 21, 2009 9:08 AM

What have I missed? I didn't know CQ was for sale?

"I didn't know CQ was for sale? -- Posted by: Blonde wino"

Yep, bw, like most newspapers, our owner St. Pete Times needs cash. CQ has posted double-digit profit growth for seven straight years, so its the best way for SPT to get quck cash.

Off to the meeting now.

Baucus raking in the funds from all sides who want to shape legislation ...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/20/AR2009072003363.html?nav=rss_email/components

Jack, dead on, brudda. There are at least 2 components we pay for that systems like the Canadian one don't. One is profits that insurers get from premium dollars and investments on them.
Another is direct administrative costs - which again go to the health insurers. A third is argued to be enrichment of doctors, but the results ofphysician salary surveys don't necessarily back that up, at least not as compared to Canada. Canadian doctors average $220,000. American docs average incomes range from less than $150,000 for family docs to over $500,000 for CV surgeons. The comparisons are not good ones because of methodology, but some comparisons out there put US physicians at the top of the heap, at about twice what UK docs make, but the numbers are not very acessible. Google it and come to your own conclusions if you are of a mind to do so. Ofcourse another cost driver is big Pharma - and the stories of high cost of drugs in the US that are sold for much less elsewhere are legion.

"kudos once again to Ping for taking arrows with grace and good humor. do wish he had some help now and then, but he holds his own regardless."

Ping likes arrows. :)

Jack, I vote with your cynical side.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/here-come-the-lobbyists.html#comment-245262

As long as it isn't Murdoch, we will remain friends.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/here-come-the-lobbyists.html#comment-245267

Pogo

In comparing salaries, you need to make sure it is dollars to dollars because of differences in exchange rate and cost of living

Canada's minister the other night did admit to a shortage of doctors in rural areas, but we have the same problem with our remote locations.

Canada is probably the best comparison point simply because of the size of the country as opposed to the more compact European countries.

jamie, the comparison I looked at that had the most apparent validity was one done in constant 2005 US dollars. It was only base salaries and did not include benefits Comparisons are difficult at best. Canada does have a doc shortage - and one reason is that some of the Canadian docs (like my friend the orthopod) in specialties can make more money in the US.

Thanks, Craig...wow, even Craig can get sold...I am sorry for all of the awful posts and I hope trailmix doesn't drive down the price!

Good Gravy!! Lou Dobbs has joined the Birthers. Between him and Pat Buchanan who wanted affirmative action for Irish Catholics, you wonder what cable networks have for hiring policies.

There have to be some conservatives out there able to hold a position in place without being racist pigs.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/here-come-the-lobbyists.html#comment-245272

Pogo,

I can understand the idea of wanting more money, but have to wonder what they sacrifice in lifestyle. So many people I know have gone to Canada and you couldn't blast them out with a ton of dynamite. Working in healthcare might be entirely different.

Roll Call bought Congressional Quarterly

Roll Call

http://www.rollcall.com/

Here's the article

http://www.rollcall.com/news/37026-1.html

Thanks, Jamie. I am sick of change...since it all seems to be going in the wrong direction.

I can only speak for this guy - he was a MaGill grad and lived in Toronto (which I think would be a great place to live) but was recruited to Clarksburg, WV about 15 years ago - where he lived in a semi-suburban upscale neighborhood a couple of miles from the hospital and a couple of miles from the country club where he was an avid golfer - he sent his kids to a very good private school 2 hours away in PA that had excellent academics and an excellent swimming program (one of his daughters was just THIS close to making the US swim team, considered trying out for the Canadian team, and is at Columbia where she is a standout on the team and in the Ivy League). He recently got recruited to run an orthopod clinic somewhere in Iowa - in or near Ames I think. His wife is a very good physical therapist who worked for the same hospital where he practiced. I think they loved the lifestyle they found here.

Roll Call is, I think, in turn owned by The Economist Group, right?

Pogo

I don't know how much it has changed in the past few decades, but Ames used to be the classic College town and there is a sort of "Iowa Nice" atmosphere. They definitely have "weather" though.

Any IPhone people around?

How one IPhone Ap could save Public Radio

http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/how_one_iphone_app_could_save_public_radio.php

jamie, actually he's in Sac City, Iowa - # 7 in best places to live in rural America according to Progressive Farmer - and home of a previous world's largest popcorn ball - at 3100 pounds.

Jamie-

I wonder what most Americans sacrifice in lifestyle while pursuing the material things that life has to offer. I guess it comes from the puritan "work ethic." We are probably the most stressed out people in the world.If we re-think our priorities we might become less stressed and if we become less stressed we could save a bundle on healthcare costs.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/here-come-the-lobbyists.html#comment-245285

Pogo,

Sounds about right for Iowa. :-)

ubns

Very true. The problem with the rat race is that you are running with rats.

Craig just tweeted:

crawfordJust now formally announced: The Economist buys CQ. Brushing up on my British accent.

Now officially confused. Does The Economist own Roll Call. Is the US being bought out by Britain. Do I need to exercise my right of return and become a British citizen. Does this mean we get health care after all. Is the Queen taking us back?

Craig--

I'm watching Ben Bernanke on CNBC right now being questioned by what appears to be the House Finance Committee.I hope they discuss the transparency bill you educated us on last week. HR-1207 and S604.

Went back and read the article I posted. It is all part of The Economist Group of publications. Pip pip and tallyho and all that.

First things first: no, Craig, no British accent. Yours is fine as is. (And i speak as a knobite whose mother tongue is bastardized Shakespearean English.;))

Now then, in honor of the sale, some British rock and roll:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQKinWlwGOc

since that is what was wanted, right? ???

And

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0AalvWKN6k

which Mick and Keith SWORE was meant to be real "Hank Williams and Jimmie Rodgers" country--

I beg to differ--sounds more like a Gram Parsons-influenced hybrid to me--

Anyway, back to lurkin', amigos. Later--

Just in Case:

A Dictionary of British Slang

http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/a.htm

heheheheh - Dana Milbank NAILS Michael Steele

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/20/AR2009072002484.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

This suggests to me that maybe Michael is a product of affirmative action - republican style - that the repugs were decrying so much with respect to Sotomayor - only she actually performed well in each of the positions she achieved.

shall we all stand and sing?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnuoGOo3Bew

Have a great morning. Safeway is calling for me to bring money.

Hear , hear >>> http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/here-come-the-lobbyists.html#comment-245260

" I am sick of change... "

Me too.

Morrissey -- Irish Blood, English Heart
"...and no regime can buy or sell me..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKoS5X4SMrY

flanders and swann's song of patriotic prejudice (the english are best)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vh-wEXvdW8

"Good Gravy!! Lou Dobbs has joined the Birthers. "

I know, Jamie -- Dobbs is such a strange banana. Once in a while, when he is strictly talking about the middle class, he makes some sense...then he spins off into illegal "aliens" and sh#t like this birth certificate....and the wing nut times now seem to come one right after the other....

OK, TDFophiles, looks like nothingn of note will change in today's stage - but tomorrow and Friday could tell a different story - a 40 km time trial and a 167 km stage that ends with a beyond category climb. If the earlier time trial (only 15.5 km) and the Pyranees are any indication, Contador should continue to lead throughout the Tour absent any unforeseen developments.

Well I saw the other day Gates complaining about the Taliban putting out a propaganda video of the captured soldier they have.

I can say that even though that is a violation of the Geneva Conventions at least they do not appear to be violating the rest of the Conventions such as cruel and inhuman treatment.

I did not see him hanging in a stress position with a hood over his head or wires attached to his nipples which were attached to batteries that we used against those in our custody.

Nor did I see any marks or bruises on him that would suggest beatings or even that he may have been waterboarded.

I really do not see how we can complain about their propaganda video unless and until we start prosecuting and imprisoning or executing our own American Citizens and soldiers whom committed War Crimes authorized by Bush\Cheney.

Nor can we say or complain if and when they do Torture our Soldiers since they can claim that they are doing nothing different than what we did, and that is interrogate them.

Fine mess you got us into (Ollie) Bush\Cheney.

EXCELLENT music choices, KT. The best things in life are free, for sure. Until "The Taxman" cometh, of course.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hYpAYWqiwo

"Well, Ringo, my boy, it was ever thus."

lunch

I want to know what PLANET the "birthers" were born on. Not this one.

AnnaMolly.... Mars... that's why they're trying so hard to convince NASA to have a mission there.... they wanna go back home.... :)

Craig.... all I can say about your column....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAR7cCeTmoc

I want to know what PLANET the "birthers" were born on. Not this one.

Posted by: AnnaMolly | July 21, 2009 12:20 PM

AnnaMolly.... Mars... that's why they're trying so hard to convince NASA to have a mission there.... they wanna go back home.... :)

Posted by: RebelliousRenee | July 21, 2009 12:26 PM

Mars would be good--

but oddly, Mars, judging by those photographs, bears a remarkable resemblance to the red mud that dried up, cracked, and blew around in a fine film when the backwaters of Tellico Lake dried up in the drought a couple of years back--:D

(Yeah, I know, I sound like your basic nutjob, but the resemblance is very close.)

KT and Renee ~ Both Mars and Tennessee appear to be marginally hospitable to human life -- Tennessee rather more so, given the photos I've seen recently. So neither can be correct. I know they're not from the pizza moon because Io would never allow it. Venus is too much in touch with her feminine side to put up with that. Uranus comes to mind, and I don't think there's much red mud to speak of, there.

I have a question ~ We've all seen "report cards" from President Obama's first six months in office. What grade should we give to republicans?

"AnnaMolly.... Mars... that's why they're trying so hard to convince NASA to have a mission there.... they wanna go back home.... :)
Posted by: RebelliousRenee | July 21, 2009 12:26 PM"

LMAO!!!!!

Posted by: Patsi | July 21, 2009 7:35 AM :
"OSH -- I agree....too bad Sharpton smelled a tv opportunity. He's just a disgrace."

Kind of a Black billy graham: when there's a need for a preacher to hog all the cameras, and divert attention from the real s&!# going on, there's Rev al sharpton.

Notice that billy and al both sport Big Hair, too.

"An Israeli company has developed a revolutionary new drug that could solve the problem of Colony Collapse Disorder, the disturbing syndrome that has been wiping out bee communities and threatening agricultural production all over the world. The drug, Remembee, which was developed by Beeologics, has completed successful clinical trials on millions of bees in North America. Not only has it proved effective in maintaining bee health, but it also improved the longevity of bees and increased the honey in the hives. Based on Nobel prize-winning RNAI technology, Remembee helps the bees overcome IAVP virus, also discovered in Israel, which has been associated with colony collapse in scientific literature."

http://www.israel21c.org/bin/en.jsp?enDispWho=Articles%5El2624&enPage=BlankPage&enDisplay=view&enDispWhat=object&enVersion=0&enZone=Technology

My PA friends (the ones with bears in the yard) keep beehives which to date have not been affected by the disorder. I got to see inside the outhouse-sized structure that's supposedly Pooh-proof and houses a hive of 30,000.

Now that is interesting news, Ivy -- I've been (sort of) following the bee situation for a while now. I hope it works, because we need those bees!

republicans have alternatively whined, raved, and bullied. They haven't actually done anything positive, only tried to derail everything. They have been very disruptive in the classroom.

I recommend that they be expelled.

This is for Anon...The Nation says investigations must start with Cheney:

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat/451834/cheney_high_level_wrongdoing_must_be_focus_of_inquiries

Jamie, Cought up with the threads and really like your lead on the H. C. issues here at TM....but your foreign polocy needs some rethinking imo.....

Based on your comments to me the other day, about the Palestinians losing their lands tru 'settler colonialism' ( ef-em you said)and the other uncaring comments you made when I mentioned that they are going to steal the water from the Litani River...you said something like....hidee ho welcome to the 21st century...like its ok to kill thousands of women and children for this water. It wasn't right in the past, nor is right now, or in the future...not ever. Here is some more news that should make you happy!

Israeli settlers rampaged in the West Bank for a second straight day, cutting down some 40 olive trees belonging to Palestinian farmers in the village of Burin, said Mayor Ali Eid. The Israeli army said it received reports of the rampage, but by the time troops arrived, the settlers had fled.

Extremist settlers often vandalize Palestinian property to protest Israel's removal of small, unauthorized outposts in the West Bank — a tactic they call the "price tag."

From comcast news.

Thanks for the news, ivygreen !

I hope this med is all that it's cracked up to be. If we don't find some cure for it, we'll end up eating pertroleum based food, with artificial vitamins, minerals, fiber, etc. added. Sorta like Soylent Green

Birthers are earthers. They come from deep under the ground. It's a very hot place down there. The heat addles their brains. Their homeland is ruled by someone named Tanas? Snata? Santa? Anywho, sumpin like that.

Kind of a Black billy graham: when there's a need for a preacher to hog all the cameras, and divert attention from the real s&!# going on, there's Rev al sharpton.

Notice that billy and al both sport Big Hair, too.

Posted by: xrepublican Author Profile Page | July 21, 2009 1:04 PM

Yeah! Standing Ovation!

Birthers - yep, serious challengers alright. Lessee, according to them Obama's grandmother claims she was at his birth in Kenya. If that were true, wouldn't Faux or some other RW news org send someone over to Kenya to make her life a living hell until she stood in front of a camera with someone like Brian Kilmeade (as if he'd stand next to an old Kenyan woman) who would get her to repeat that statement so that it could become part of the Fauxnews newsloop? In the absence of legitimate birth records (since the COLB provided by the Big O isn't good enough for them) wouldn't that be the "best evidence" of where he was born?

The Anti Health Care sponsors of the commercial with the Canadian, Patients United Now (PUN) have changed their name to Patients for Progress. Someone should tell them they are still laughable.

There Ought To Be A Law - Whatever the name of the 503C group sponsoring commercials left or right should be forced to disclose who is giving them money.

Birthers or Earthers

[url=http://img22.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flatearth.jpg][img=http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/278/flatearth.th.jpg][/url]

url=http://img22.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flatearth.jpg

Solar,

The Litani River is deep in Lebanon. Yet, you say that Israel is going to steal the water of a foreign river. To accomplish what you predict, the Israelis would have to occupy the southern quarter of Lebanon.

1. What is the source of your information ?
a. Is it a credible ? That is to say, do they provide enough detail to make a jury of 12 normally intelligent people reach the conclusion you did ?
b. Does your source have a good track record of providing sound information.
c. Is the information your source provides verifiable, and if so, how ?

2. Israel has pushed across the Litani twice, and returned to it's borders both times. If they really coveted the Litani, I would have thought that they'd have kept it when they had it in their power. The return to the old border is a sufficient demonstration to me that the Israelis have no intention of stealing the water of the Litani River.

3. What do you think are the intentions of the Lebanese ? Do they intend to sell water from the Litani ?

4. I would find a tale that Israelis plan to divert the Jordan, before it enters the West Bank much more credible. However, here in Minnesota, at the headwatersof the Mississippi, the Saint Lawrence, and the mighty Red River of the North, we would call the Jordan a creek.

Drat trying to make this dumb thing work

http://img22.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flatearth.jpg

KT and Renee ~ Both Mars and Tennessee appear to be marginally hospitable to human life -- Tennessee rather more so, given the photos I've seen recently. So neither can be correct.~~AnnaMolly

Why, thank you, AM. My beautiful state is indeed generally more hospitable than Mars. However, if the birthers are set on colonizing, Mars it should be. We grow enough of our own native wingnuts without imports.;)

Birthers are earthers. They come from deep under the ground. It's a very hot place down there. The heat addles their brains. Their homeland is ruled by someone named Tanas? Snata? Santa? Anywho, sumpin like that. Posted by: xrepublican | July 21, 2009 1:25 PM

So, how do you suppose they get out? My theory is volcanoes expel them for bad behavior. Hades wouldn't put up with stuff like that, either. ;)

Three tries for one silly joke. :-)

republicans have alternatively whined, raved, and bullied. They haven't actually done anything positive, only tried to derail everything. They have been very disruptive in the classroom.

I recommend that they be expelled.

Posted by: xrepublican | July 21, 2009 1:12 PM

AM, I agree with XRep.

KT ~ Agreed. Send them to Mars, where John Carter, late of Earth himself, and now warlord of Barsoom, will turn them into dinner for thoats, allowing them to fulfill their destinies as .... (oh, never mind .... wouldn't want to offend any delicate sensibilities).

When one is on the Battlefield for positive change, one cannot pause to worry and fret about sinking poll numbers.... that is a "trojan horse." One cannot worry about the separated Self, when they have the People's business to do!

It is hard to Change old habits of greed and selfish power to one of cooperation and a public good for all. Pres. Obama is going up against a Monster of Greed and Corruption that does not want to give up its power. This monster will Lie, Steal and Deceive. We the people must not allow this Monster of Corruption to continue to have its way, which will only continue to bankrupt the United States. We must stand firm with Pres. Obama who truly represents the Change the people need and have voted for. Healthcare costs are one of the culprits Directly related to our collapsing economic condition. We are drowning in this quicksand which calls for urgent and immediate address and attention. This time is Urgent, the time is Now!

If we in our own lives can do more than One thing at a time, so can Congress, and it is their duty and business to do so. If those in Congress want to continue to be a Do Nothing Congress, than we must elect leaders who can do Something for the whole of humanity and not just the separated self or special interest party. Congress has a great insurance coverage, and a cushy salary. They are there to work on Behalf of the People. I say on Behalf of the People, so far while in the leadership of the GOP, they have done a miserable job and now GOP want to obstruct the Democrats from putting into laws that which will benefit the people and grow the economy, not bankrupt it. When will some stop listening to the deceitful “Wizard of Oz” and get off the yellow brick road of deception. We should be immune to their lies by now, but some still, sadly, are not.

I call on you to Stand firm for Change and for transformation towards a more just and equitable government for all.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/here-come-the-lobbyists.html#comment-245318

Solar

I said nothing at all about Settler Colonialism. I also said I would be happy to see Israel go back to the original partition lines as long as they had full permission to shoot anyone stepping one foot over that border without their permission. Some sort of DMZ might be a good idea.

On the water. The "Hidey Ho" was about water everywhere. Until the human race wakes up to the fact that there are way too many people wanting a drink and that global warming is wiping out fresh water supplies, the water wars will be happening everywhere.

This is one of those elephant in the room issues that no one is going to consider until there is blood in the steets. Come to think of it, there are already places where there is blood in the streets.

Right now, 20 percent of the world's population in 30 countries face water shortages, a figure that will rise to 30 percent of the world's population, in 50 countries, by 2025, according to the UN, observing World Day for Water on March 22.

Now with that out of the way. Sorry Solar. The Israelis have done bad things, but all it would have taken to make that stop at any point during the past 60 years is for the surrounding countries to take care of the Palestinians, build homes and develop businessess and stop trying to wipe out Israel. But the surrounding countries didn't want the Palestinians either. They wanted victims to display to the world. Egypt made peace. The others could have as well.

No one drove the Palestinians out of their homes. They left willingly. They still could have returned. They wanted to be martyrs for a cause instead. NOw their children and grandchildren are paying for that bad judgement.

KT and XRep ~ Nothing so drastic as expulsion. How about washing their mouths out with soap and a few lashes with a ruler. It worked in my third grade classroom, and it's better than sending them out into the world where they might hook up with terrorist cells or something. I mean, imagine Michelle Bachmann wearing a burka.

Posted by: AnnaMolly | July 21, 2009 2:26 PM

OMG. The mind boggles.

Jamie,
I agree with your statement entirely, except for:

"No one drove the Palestinians out of their homes. They left willingly. They still could have returned."

Actually, many Palestinians were essentially forced into refugee status, and Israel has no intention of letting them return to Israel and become the basis for a Palestinian majority voting bloc. (Nor, should they at this point, and that is one of the issues that need to be dealt with in the peace process.

See: http://www.mideastweb.org/refugees1.htm

among many sites.

Patsi & XR --

Sweet irony if the cure for bee collapse syndrome comes from the "land of milk and honey."

This date in legal history: a verdict was reached in the so-called Scopes Monkey Trial, in Dayton, TN. After the 1925 equivalent of a media circus (it was apparently the first trial ever carried on national radio) featuring William Jennings Bryan and Clarence Darrow, teacher John T. Scopes was convicted of teaching evolution in violation of the Butler Act of 1925 and fined $100. And largely thanks to H.L. Mencken, Tennesseans are still branded (somewhat, I'm forced to admit, deservedly so) as backward, fundamentalist, anti-science and anti-intellectual.

BTW, Scopes's conviction was overturned by the Tennessee Supreme Court on a technicality, and the Butler Act was repealed in 1967, but the battle rages on over creationism vs. evolution. We have quite an intelligent-design crowd among TN politicians.

So, how do you suppose they get out? My theory is volcanoes expel them for bad behavior. Hades wouldn't put up with stuff like that, either. ;)

Posted by: AnnaMolly

Neither would Dr. Spivey.(^_~)

So the Senate caved on the F-22 funding.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/22/business/22defense.html?hp

max (it was Max who thought it was the be-all and end-all for the AF wasn't it?) is gonna be pissed. :-)

Indeed, Ivy! P

AnnaMolly,

alqada deserves michele bachmann. She'd need a designer burka, of course.

KT ~ From what I've seen in recent human history, I'm beginning to subscribe to the "dumbed-down design" theory of evolution.

Gotta go ta work. Baby kneads a new pair o' chutes.

kt, when it comes to "backward, fundamentalist, anti-science and anti-intellectual" Tennesse has no monopoly on those traits. Of the states I've lived in, they all can make a claim to at least be in the running for one or another of them. (Hmmm, I hope it isn't me ...)

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/here-come-the-lobbyists.html#comment-245340

CJ

Ben Gurion begged them to stay. Cruel I know because many left out of ignorance believing the promise that the "Jews would be pushed into the sea", but they made their bed. Give them the land originally in the partition and make the best of it. AT this stage, no reason to allow return except as a one on one petition process and with a period of good behavior as part of the process.

I just have no sympathy for people who strap bombs on themselves and explode pieces of their fellow human beings all over streets because of religion.

newpogo ~ In my state, that's mostly the northern part, but ditto. We can't let KT have all the fun.

Following up KT's comment, here's a link to her VERY excellent blog on the Scopes trial. KT is an excellent story-teller, and this is vintage ...

http://fairweatherlewis.blogstream.com/v1/pid/403490_Some-Thoughts-on-the-Scopes-Monkey-Trial.html#TP

My apologies, KT, but I just couldn't help myself. ;)

New fiction from Anita Diamant, (author of "The Red Tent") - "Day After Night"

"...Diamant opens a window into a time of sadness, confusion and optimism that has resonance for so much that's both triumphant and troubling in modern Jewish history." (Sept.)

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?r=1&ean=9780743299848

My apologies, KT, but I just couldn't help myself. ;)

Posted by: AnnaMolly | July 21, 2009 3:13 PM

All is forgiven.;)

Jamie

Ben Gurion also supported 'relocation.' And many Palestinians fled for fear of personal safety.

Jamie,

"Now with that out of the way."

Don't be so dismissive, This is a different tone that you took the other day. You say that the other countries should have taken them in ----the Palestinians that is. I don't understand this....why should the P. go to antother country when for centuries they have had their own. They are not from Egypt, or from anywhere else. They don't all look alike.

Your DMZ idea is a good one, and should go both way's....after Israel goes back to Israel...leaves the land that they took illegally ...and then they could both contribute to the buffer zone.....but if some Israeli is shot cos he was trespassing....what would the neo.con Israeli do...they would retaliate with bombs all all. I noticed that you did not say anything about the aggressiveness of the settlers.

XR,

I did give all of that information before....and taken right from the history of the Israel's themselves. That has alway been the goal. I will look for the info angain,and repost it.

Hi Jamie, sorry I can't help you today with the partially deranged. I did leave you and Joe a long winded look at worker comp last night which is another spin at this: http://www.slate.com/id/2223037/

"My" idea does get us away partly from business supplied insurance using worker comp as the logic. The idea mixes private insurance, State power and redirecting how the tax structure is presently and shift the system in a way that could increase the rolls of the more gold plated policies instead of pushing the system towards the cheaper version sure to upset many.

And I note that Joe had a bright idea with his three central sparks to economic revivial.

In other news I suggest you read this through the end and understand the game Russia is playing and the real dynamics of the MIddle East.

http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/2009/07/marg-bar-fascis.php

(I suggest one read the comment thread ESPECIALLY the repost from Strafor on the real dynamics in Iran and the role of Russia. Quite disturbing and goes well with the news posted at the end of the comment thread.)

Solar, Irsaelis would love their enemies only cutting down trees. Please try to vet the stuff you post. It often looks silly.

As Russia and China prepare new fighters, Obama is happy at the loss of 70,000 jobs, shutting down the facilities for the only fighter that can get past the best defensive systems to save 1.5 billion. That is far less than Obama allowed banks to get in bonuses. It is way less than the pork Obama promised would not be in the stimulus bill. Yep, Gates is happy today as missile defense is next.

Bravo. Job well done. The Chinese and Russians are quite pleased.

They took illegally? Okay, I must go back to work. You're saved for the moment Solar.

Joe, you have a much better arguement with American Indians, or even Mexico.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/here-come-the-lobbyists.html#comment-245363

Solar

As to that land "Taken Illegally", remember that it was taken in the six day way and most of what they took to drive off an invasion has already been given back.

Why should the surrounding countries take them in or assist them. Because they were the ones that encouraged them to leave and they are the ones that have constrained them in poverty without assistance to develop their territory ever since.

This is why there was a partition. We call it a Two State Solution now, but it was a Two State Solution in 1948. Enforce it.

KT ~ Agreed. Send them to Mars, where John Carter, late of Earth himself, and now warlord of Barsoom, will turn them into dinner for thoats, allowing them to fulfill their destinies as .... (oh, never mind .... wouldn't want to offend any delicate sensibilities).

Posted by: AnnaMolly | July 21, 2009 2:16 PM

Pardon my density--but if that's the plot of DUNE--I never made it past the first chapter--:)

Max,
Our official and unofficial treatment of the American Indians was disgraceful.

Pardon my density--but if that's the plot of DUNE--I never made it past the first chapter--:)
Posted by: http://openid.aol.com/ktartiste | July 21, 2009 3:45 PM

Nope. Edgar Rice Burroughs. DUNE was the big worm in the sand trap filled with hallucinogenic spices and a courtesan cult. Ummm cinnamon. I checked out emotionally after Duke Leto died, and after that, I rooted for the worm. You should read THE CHESSMEN OF MARS. Talk about your red queens. ;)

KT

The Scopes story was very, very good. I've got your blog listed on my site and it is on the Blog Roll here on the left.

DUNE was the big worm in the sand trap filled with hallucinogenic spices and a courtesan cult.~~AnnaMolly

Wouldja believe the only thing, literally, that I've read that had anything to do with worms was Robert E. Howard's "Worms of the Earth"? (And I don't think those were literal worms.) I was trying to impress a guy who was a rabid fan of Howard and H.P. Lovecraft. Lust leads one into some mighty strange paths. (raised eyebrow)

AnnaMolly

Let her have some real fun with Heinlein and Podkayne of Mars and The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress.

KT

The Scopes story was very, very good. I've got your blog listed on my site and it is on the Blog Roll here on the left.

Posted by: jamie44.myopenid.com | July 21, 2009 3:52 PM

Thanks, Jamie. You may have noticed, I've got yours listed in my "sites I like" over to the right of my page (along with Craig's of course :)) and I visit quite often but can't leave comments because I shut down my blog at blogspot and can't remember how to get back in!

For fun, please compare today's David Brooks column

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/21/opinion/21brooks.html?ref=opinion

with Sunday's Frank Rich column

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/19/opinion/19rich.html?em

The good news - liberals and conservative in DC are dying out - it will be run by moderates. :-) Damn, I think I just pissed myself.

Yes, Mas, levels of weapons systems needded by the military should be set by pork barrelling Senators and Congressmen and armchair warriors like yourself instead of by the Military and civilian leaders, who have said they have enough of them. And of course the weapons procurement system should be driven by the job needs in the handful of states that provide this or that wweapons system rather than the need of the military. The indispensible F-22, designed 20 years ago I might add, has never been used in war despite the fact that we have been in 2 of them for the past 6 years. If the Chinese and Iranians build their fighters, it's not like we will have forgotten the technology to build the 22s if that is what is needed. And the missile defense system (as if it is a singularity) will be produced as long as it appears to work and is deemed needed for the nation's defense. If either of those criteria aren't met, it should go the way of ADDITIONAL F-22s. But don't worry about job losses, the planned trip to Mars will generate plenty of jobs, as should the remaining 90% of the stimulus that has thus far gone unawarded.

But I have to go nurse a sick wife.

jamie ~ goodness .. do you grok? ;)

How will this system ever work before we put an end to the disproportionate amount of resources spent to prolong the misery at the end of "life". I am for "choice" at the beginning and the end; but our culture and its' attendant society will disappear before our religious institutions give up their mindless hold on the hereafter and what their opinion of what it takes to get there.

Speaking of the Scopes trial, Inherit the Wind is among my top 5 favorite law movies, along with Twelve Angry Men, Anatomy of a Murder, To Kill a Mockingbird and The Verdict.

Now, gone.

Lust leads one into some mighty strange paths. (raised eyebrow) Posted by: http://openid.aol.com/ktartiste | July 21, 2009 3:55 PM

Don't look at me. Blame it on Freud.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/here-come-the-lobbyists.html#comment-245375

kt

Click on Comments and then click on the "Open ID". It will allow you to use the same sign in as here.

patsi & ivy, here's a good article about our 4000 bee species native to north america that may be of some comfort:

The Buzz on Native Pollinators - National Wildlife Magazine
As European honeybees decline, indigenous bees and other pollinating animals can provide a backup—with a little help from their human friends
http://www.nwf.org/nationalwildlife/article.cfm?issueID=129&articleID=1735

NP, I hope your wife feels better. We arm chairs can pick it up later......

AnnaMolly....
grok.... hell... maybe we can teach those Martian birthers to discorportate....

TheHarvest... welcome to the blog....

Watergate Hotel for sale for 25 mil but needing 100 mil in fix up. Beautiful location right on the Potomac.

craig, today's thread in brief:

"Here Come the Lobbyists" whining and dining

I also posted that there are new law that were passed...that effect the few remaining P's in Israel. By the time some of them get home after work, or whatever. They have lost thier home and lands to the government. They are law only for the P's. Another form of "voluntarily" leaving your home I guess. later

I don't want to argue behind NP's back but to set things up let me add that the Strafor article over in the comment thread I posted at Totten's link above is quite disturbing.

Russia appears to be helping Ahmadinejad as well as setting up advanced air defenses in Syria and perhaps soon in Iran. The COLD War is not as Cold but still alive. Raptors which Gates doesn't think are necessary was designed to evade Soviet air defense. F-35s haven't been in combat either, but what the media does not want you to know is that F-18s have developed cracks. F-15 are experiancing trouble too. Both Democratic and Republican administrations until Obama's have called for a higher number than 187, but from the look of it, Gates and Obama think counterinsurgency forces can defeat high tech air defense.

1.5 billion. NYC spends 60 times that amount in construction over a three year period. So from this lob, NP I will await your return volley........

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/here-come-the-lobbyists.html#comment-245381

Pat --

Thanks for the native bee link...new information...I had bee-lieved there were no bees in North America until the European honeybee was imported...my PA friends will bee interested as well, I will pass it along...

AnnaMolly....grok.... hell... maybe we can teach those Martian birthers to discorportate....
Posted by: RebelliousRenee | July 21, 2009 4:18 PM

I've always wanted to do that and then re-corportate ... LoL Is that a word? ... into a supermodel. So far, no luck. ;)

Slowing down and killing health care is about politics, not policy
By: Jason Rosenbaum Tuesday July 21, 2009 9:29 am

To underscore the point President Obama made this weekend, Sam Stein at the Huffington Post has been given a copy of a internal RNC strategy memo on health care reform. Their strategy? Slow it down and kill it in any way possible. In fact, their exact words are:

"The Republican National Committee will engage in every activity we can to slow down this mad rush while promoting sensible alternatives that address health care costs and preserve quality."
http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/6514

the news today about brits buying cq made me wonder how many other american institutions/icons are now owned by others. anybody got an up-to-date list?

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/here-come-the-lobbyists.html#comment-245381

Pat --

My friends are "organic" but note that all their bees must be "medicated" - there's no such thing as purely organic honey, they say. An "organic" hive is a dead hive.

AnnaMolly

Way beyond Grokking ... Already up to multiple marriage partners, incest, time travel, and all sorts of shenanigans in Time Enough For Love

Unfortunately my grandparents only made it to 89 so the Methuselahs didn't recruit me.

There are 1.4 million Muslim citizens in Israel. When there are that many Jews in the 57 Muslim states. call me. You have become a Palestinian aplogist harping daily on only the bad and evil Israelis which shoots your credibility to shit.

Palestinians tried to destroy the UN mandated Nation of Israel. They have been trying to destroy her ever since. They got their asses kicked. They believed their idiot friends. They voted in a terror group and arrogantly say their talk of peace is just to get international aid.

Facts are tough things Solar. Deal with them. Out of the enormous land Muslims have, Israel represents less than 1.5 percent of the Balfour Declaration's scope of interest. Muslims broke it when they kicked Jews out. When they regain some sanity, Palestinians can start to restore their lives. Have you been to the West Bank? Read Totten's account with pictures. It is not the terrible place you would have us believe.

On what planet do attackers and terrorists have rights? I feel terrible for the innocent Palestinians who just want peace. Sadly they are the minority. Maybe if you tried to solve their pychosis, things would change. Characterizing Israel the way you do is just cheerleading for a dangerously lead people.

patd

Quick search didn't turn up a list with all, but here are some bought just in the past year

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jun/06/foreign-buyers-snapped-up-us-assets-in-2008/

Max

You truly can't tell one muslim from another can you?

From you writing they are all the same to you

Jack

Ya know Max if I made the same sweeping statements that you do and used Jew as you used Muslim you would call me antisemitic and in such a case you would be right.

Jack

" just have no sympathy for people who strap bombs on themselves and explode pieces of their fellow human beings all over streets because of religion."

I don't either, Jamie. But have you been to the Golan Heights? Have you spent any time in country, on the streets? My thinking changed a bit after the reality.....

Chris Matthews is on fire about the birthers! LMAO!

Patsi

The point is that if the surrounding countries have repeatedly attacked Israel without cause not to mention countless terrorist attacks. At times Israel's response to these attacks have been too much, but all that had to happen is for those surrounding countries to cut the crap and for all parties to observe the original partition. If that means dragging some of the settlers off the land that they farmed, developed, and whose productivity they brought up out of the desert they found there, then that is what needs to happen.

They settled there to protect Israel and if peace means that they lose that land, it is sad, but they should be compensated for the improvements they made.

"Max,
Our official and unofficial treatment of the American Indians was disgraceful."

I am an American Indian. Maybe that why this sort of stuff is hard to take. Looks very similar sometimes.

Max, I have an idea for you. About illegal's .... The solution would be for all of them......all of them, to go and move to a few states,,,and declare them a new country...hell it's done all of the time. Draw up a constitution, some other papers as they see fit....get them notarized by them. and ---there you have it a new country.

And the funny thing is that all of that would be legal.....but you need to enforce it.?????? Might is Right I guess....so the Pal's are shit out of luck....they are the nails...that will be hammered down by the Israel's with our help....Manifest Destiney again??.. is this why we have so many basses (750) all over the world...I don't know?

Diego Garcia,.....one of our Military Bases.....

Is an example of people voluntarily leaving their home land. That is after the Britts and our people threatened their way of living...their children....and when dead dogs, and other animals started showing up dead...then they left...they signed away there homes...I think that they are still in court trying to get their homes back.....but all of the paper work...shows that they left voluntarily????

What a funny lady...

http://www.delawareliberal.net/2009/07/21/hey-lady-in-georgetown-sit-down-and-shut-up/

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/here-come-the-lobbyists.html#comment-245377

Exactly. Welcome.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/here-come-the-lobbyists.html#comment-245377

Exactly. Welcome.

" If that means dragging some of the settlers off the land that they farmed, developed, and whose productivity they brought up out of the desert they found there, then that is what needs to happen.

They settled there to protect Israel and if peace means that they lose that land, it is sad, but they should be compensated for the improvements they made."

I can't believe that im reading this bs.....just like Polk....after many, many efforts at buying parts of mexico...he just invaded and gave some bullshit amount for what the illegal explores (Freemont) told him would be unthinkable...that the treasures of Mexico could not be counted.

How much would you give a family that lived in the same house that they lived in When they say Jesus was alive.....gotta be a bargain in today's market. hahahha that's it for me ...thanks

Max,

When you stop pushing for war.... I will stop pushing for peace. Deal? Remember-you said that the Jews have the largest horse in the race...the war over at Afghanistan...You want to bomb Iran. etc etc.

All we keep doing is giving them $. and what has Karzi (spelling?) done with it....he bought himself a new wardrobe...nothing for the people over there either. I read (forgot where) that he just re-hired some brutal war lord...some love him....some hate him. Nothing is going to change much......That one of the reasons that I say come home...plus.. Obama, to me is starting to make the same mistakes that Johnson did....send in more troops...Where are all of the birhgtest Havard grads taking Obama too.....more war is all.

How are we going to see a recovery, the health bill passed, anything if all of the money goes for war? I can't see it.

I haven't said anything about today's thread.....but her goes....what is the difference...from what the R's did.....Im glad that I voted for that dingbat Mkinney ...don't feel bad at all.

we got good news and we got bad news........the good news is that everybody gets to change underwear........the bad news is: Smith, you change with Jones.......Johnson you change with Schwartz..........Anderson, you change with McNabb.......etc

ahhhh, murca............

Solar,
I think you misunderstood Jamie's last. She was saying, I think, remove the Israeli settlers and compensate them for their personal investment IF it can be part of a true peace deal.

Am I right, Jamie?

Jamie,

I apologize to you...sorry for the bad reading comprehension of that post. You know something ...is that I do see it your way sometimes.......If I were to pick up a news paper and read that someone had detonated some bomb on a bus..suicide bombing....I would automatically think that it was a Muslim or someone like that. They sure don't help themselves any either ....It is the governments that Im against not the people. like I said the other day.....The person the I most revere is Jew ...sorry for all the harsh talk,,,and was not intended to personally hurt you, or anything.

Joe, thanks for pointing that out to a knucklehead!!

CJ

Yes that is what I meant. These people have invested their lives in developing that land out of desert. They deserve that compensation.

Israel is a totally modern nation. That didn't happen by accident. There are wonderful wine vinyards on land that used to be nothing but dust and camels. The Palestinians could do the same where they are if they wanted to join the 21st century.

Off for BBC news and then Torchwood Part 2

Jamie,
I've been to Israel, and most of the surrounding countries, and I agree with your portrayal of the 'Israel Miracle.' The Israelis are an amazingly industrious and creative people. If their industriousness and creativity could infect the region, everything would change.

But I've also met many, many moderate Arabs, who also want peace. Unfortunately, moderates on both sides are often drowned out by the radicals.

Peace is possible if we work for justice and never, never give up.

Solar, if all you see in my posts is pushing for war, that is a problem involving your reading comprehension, not the content. Your constant apologies or denials of the very people at war with peace presently destroys the credibility you think you have. Feel good about voting for McKinney. It is a free country where people are allowed to meet in Chicago and pray that America becomes a Sharia land in which the Constitution is burned.

You aren't pushing for peace, you are an isolationist imagining human behavior is not what is actual is. You filter and twist news story to suit your emotions, not common sense. We would all be talking German or Russian or Chinese if our NSS was based on your realism.

All the money goes to war? Seems that the trillions Obama has earmarked is hardly going to war. And war and distruction? 200 million people have been slaughtered by jihadist in the last 1400 years. Over a hundred million were starved or murdered by communists. You focus on America and the Israelis as the root cause of war in your daily diatribe worthy of Kos or Huffington. Every time America retreated into itself we neither prospered nor were secure. Jefferson warned that we must protect the approaches of our markets and advance Liberal Democracy around the world.

The fatal flaw to your head-in-the-sand approach is that you ignore what active efforts we could do to prevent war. Instead of any recommendation here to "bomb", I have offered dozens of steps we could take. YOU characterize them as war-like, probably because I set red-lines that make them credible since we are dealing with some extremely difficult and troubled people.

Your love of anthropology is insincere if you think cooperation is not based on enforcement. Since Joe would explain to you why international justice is a myth, only the alliances of the Free working together to defend LIberty keeps the world on a pathway towards cooperation. Russia is hurting so we tell Russia we will counter their missile defense in Syria by one in Israel AND Poland. We take steps to pull the rug out on the regime in Iran like Carter did to the Shah. We threaten to remove our troops from Germany unless they curtail exports and imports to Iran. We give a deadline to Hamas to change their charter and ask the world why Jewish settlements are bad and explusion of millions of Jews from most of the 57 Muslims nations is not. We aren't playing hardball which you incorrectly call warmongering.

You won't be happy until the crap hits the fan and then you'll forget all your wishful thinking and explain you didn't mean this or that. You show outrage at America and Israel without a fraction of that anger directed towards the bad guys. You have said nothing about a system of justice based on torture in China or North Korea. You say nothing about the daily perversions of jihadists. You want everything to be peaceful as though Mother Nature OWED that to you. Life isn't peace. That comes after we have ended conflict. We can't end conflict through capitulation. In 1939 you would have likely been a Republican antiwar activist apolgizing for Hitler.

We all want peace. What gives you a leg up? Because you say things that have little practical value? Its like you're trying to build a house on quick sand or use balsa wood instead of pine.

But don't let me stop you, just don't try selling me that house.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/here-come-the-lobbyists.html#comment-245408

You can say that again!

"thanks for pointing that out to a knucklehead!!"

.... that one I'm going to let pass. :)

NEW THREAD

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/cq-rolls-with-the-economist.html

Joe, Palestinians elected a terror group. If you compare that to Israeli leadership you show a lack of discernment. Period. Israel doesn't come to the table seeking to destroy Palestinians. Fatah and Hamas have both said recently in a conference that "peace" is just a tool to get international aid. 1 plus 5 does not equal 2.

Where Israel built a fence and worked with Arab security, the West Bank shows some real promise. Don't tell me Israelis don't want peace. Sharon left Gaza only to have Israelis see missiles come there way.

FYI
I know most have heard about this, here is a good article in the Wall Street Journal. I hope that Craig is one of the keepers!
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124819324046969027.html#mod=rss_whats_news_us_business
Economist Group Buys Congressional Quarterly
By KEVIN KINGSBURY
July 21, 2009

Roll Call Group has agreed to acquire Congressional Quarterly, creating a Capitol Hill powerhouse with two of the Beltway's most-watched publications.

The deal, terms of which weren't disclosed, will create a new company called CQ-Roll Call Group. Roll Call is owned by the Economist Group, the London-based publisher of its namesake magazine.

Roll Call is buying Congressional Quarterly from Times Publishing Co., whose primary operations is the St. Petersburg Times and related assets.

Created in 1945, Congressional Quarterly has been a mainstay in covering Congress. Roll Call came a decade later to cover the legislative process.

The Economist Group bought Roll Call in 1992.

There are no current plans to eliminate products as part of the acquisition with "the great majority" of Congressional Quarterly's staff joining the combined operation.

Those departing include Robert W. Merry, the publication's president and editor-in-chief the past dozen years. Noting "one CEO inevitably becomes extraneous" in mergers, Mr. Merry plans to "pursue other publishing and journalistic opportunities."

The purchase is slated to close this quarter.

Write to Kevin Kingsbury at kevin.kingsbury@dowjones.com