Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Woo Hoo...

Well we all have seen how the Health Care Industry and the Insurance Companies have bought and paid for most of those in Washington.

Yes, even Democrats have sold their souls to their Health Care Corporate Masters.

Now its up to the American People to take it too the streets and demand Health Care Reform from there representatives.

That's the only way we will get reform and not by just writing and calling your representatives. Wake up America and demand they do what you put them in office to do.

you go AP !!!

What is the number one driver of rising healthcare costs?
It is either our individual bad behavior and the FAT Attack that we Americans are going to.

OR

It is the Defensive Med that Doc's practice adding a test or two just in case John Edwards gets the case.

This is the problem with our Government - they do not fix problems - the get Duck Tape and create more problems

My husband and I are neither fat or smoke...yet, we get sick. Humans get sick. In a country where elitists sit and gaze upon the little people and point-out they are sick because they are poor slobs who do not take care of themselves?? It really irks me in a country where all are equal except in health care. It saves the really good doctors for plastic surgery....and many unnecessary treatment the elites can get because they have money. Really a shame, a stain on the US.

Headline: Dimwitted Thieves Steal Fake Cell Phones in Mexico

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/07/08/world/AP-LT-ODD-Mexico-Fake-Phones.html

In this case, the American health-care industry is selling the public the fake cell phones.

"Health-Care Industry" sounds like an oxymoron. In the United States we have a distorted market-based system where a large percentage of the people do not pay directly for specific treatments, Therefore, they are cost-agnostic. They pay indirectly, many through lower wages as a result of health insurance costs, and through taxes to cover those without insurance. But unless there is a significant co-pay tied to the specific treatment, there is little motivation on the part of either the buyer (patient) or the seller (Health care provider) to control cost. And, of course, those without insurance, often the working poor, are left with no options at all, and wind up putting inflated charges on their credit card which further impoverishes them.

The alternative is to have a third party overseeing treatment decisions who is not in the profit loop, but this begins to sound like the pejorative "rationing."

See today's WP for in interesting article on this issue of 'Who Will Say No?"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/07/AR2009070702745.html

Ping -
Here's another reason for health care costs rising -

Pin heads working for insurance companies.

Every time one of those Insurance industry funded commercials comes on with its blatant lies, I see read.

"High cost of Government" (I guess their profits don't count)

Bureaucrats deciding your services (What you don't have employees and guidelines?)

It is just so incredibly ugly that they place their profits and cushy corporate offices ahead of the well being of the American public. Every time one of those things show up, I find myself hoping they will soon need their own services.

Thought for the day :
" Better the shoulder to the wheel than the back to the wall. "

I see RED

BTW, I have written to OFA and they keep sending me reminders to donate...that is the point, we need money for health care.

And it is time for another citizen stimulus check....the stimulus is stuck in the upper reaches of the pyramid and is not trickling down.

Jamie...you are seeing the "big lie" in action via those commercials. Rationing in health care is already here.

http://cbsolaroven.blogspot.com/

Bob, how many hours before the Sun is above your horizon :)

I wish you every success!

mornin'

Ping, your paradigm is not correct - it is not an either-or proposition, although the two causes you mention undoubtedly both contribute - and it conveniently leaves out about fifty other possible explanations for rising healthcare costs - profit motive of doctors (private and corporate), pharmaceutical manufacturers, device and equipment manufacturers, insurance companies, for profit healthcare providers, and on and on. Jamie is much closer to the truth than you are.

Joe, get this concept - health care in the US is rationed - it is rationed by nurses (best case) or insurance company bureaucrats (worst case) hired to review preauthorization requests. Same thing hapens with medicare and medicaid, but to a much lesser extent. The right wing scare tactic is akin to warning you that breathing from this point forward will expose you to inhaling the poisonous gass CO2.

Blondie, yep, it is.

Patsi,
This one's for you:
The Sisterhood of Bluegrass
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124701433834009187.html

Both of parents had cancer...they had medicare and a good supplemental. They were not denied any treatments. My husband has(d) cancer and he has already received his ration of care for the year and a huge bill for his surgery. There is the difference....my husband has an employer plan, my parents had a public plan (medicare). And, IMO, my husband received more unnecessary tests than my parents ever did. Public plan = bad???? Public plan is much better in terms of care. Now, how do we drive this point home, when Dr. Dean can't???

Blondie, absolutely. That is exactly what I saw when I was in the biz.

"Ration" and "Rational" have the same Latin root (reasoned).

Are you saying the current system is rational? I'd say not. It is, at best, haphazard, and depends greatly on who you are an what your circumstances are rather than what is most 'rational' in medical (and cost-benefit) terms.

Stimulus money for consumer goods manufactured overseas is such a waste.

Here's an example of what I think would provide real stimulation: Giving energy conservation grants/vouchers to seniors and the disabled enabling them to make remedial fixes on their dwellings. Tax credits do nothing to help this population.

LA Times on rationing, catastrophic care and end of life costs, and who will take on the job of saying, "NO" in a public plan

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/07/AR2009070702745.html?nav=rss_email/components

Gotta go to work. Interesting discussion this morning.

Single payer is the only genuine option that saves money and provides universal coverage. Pattern it on the military's Tricare for Life model.

www.tricareforlife.us

The health care industry concession.....let's cut costs because we have been robbing you blind for years!

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/health-reform-battle-lines.html#comment-242322

Flatus

The Chinese put a "buy China" in their stimulus plan. In the US, our Congress Critters removed the "buy America" provision. End result, not only are the Chinese supporting the chinese, but we are supporting the Chinese.

How about Obama at least attempting to fulfill one of the many campaign promises. Get rid of the lobbyists .

* First law of thermodynamics, about the conservation of energy:

The change in the internal energy of a closed thermodynamic system is equal to the sum of the amount of heat energy supplied to or removed from the system and the work done on or by the system.

Flatus -
It's up and so am I .

About to head out the door. Some mid level clouds broken and scattered.

Off to see my least favorite "health care provider" :

THE DENTIST

Yuck!

Good luck, c-bob. I hope it stays sunny.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/health-reform-battle-lines.html#comment-242304

The biggest cost factor in health care costs is end of life care.
People should be allowed to die with dignity.

Jamie...good luck. We will never see a dental plan, but in my case, my dental insurance is much better than my health insurance and cheaper. Maybe we should see how the dentists get this done.

Joe, rationale has the same root - and hte healthcare industry is only haphazard if you ignore the rationale operative in it. The rationale of the for profit insurers is to increase profits. The rationale for the government providers is to spend within their budgets. You literally cannot compare care from patient to patient if they have different insurers because the ONLY common element is the insurer's profit motive, and even looking at a patient to patient who have the same insurer and similar complaints, the care authorized may very well vary based on how the doctor who requests the care describes the patient's symptoms, which in turn drives the protocol. (There are protocols and criteria that are employed by the insurers that differ from one to the other, but there is some standardization being sought in that area).

That is one reason that computerized medical records are being pushed to drive down medical costs. In the better systems, protocols and disagnostic criteria are built into the system, and much greater consistency in care is possible as a result, and the broader the application of common protocols, the greater the consistency, and theoretically, the greater the savings. That is also why the government has to have a strong role in the system - to prevent the individual insurers from fighting the application of common protocols - in order to force application of their own ... to increase their profits.

Dr. Dean's plan

http://www.alternet.org/politics/141129/howard_dean%3A_%22this_is_ridiculous._we%27re_60_years_behind_the_times%22_on_fixing_health_care/

How about Obama at least attempting to fulfill one of the many campaign promises. Get rid of the lobbyists .

Posted by: buford.myopenid.com Author Profile Page | July 8, 2009 9:25 AM

Hear! Hear!

While there in all likelihood will be some type of legislation passed to address health care reform,
it appears that the result may not satisfy anyone.

As always the devil will be in the details and if there
is any substance to this article---just have to wonder
what will really change.

Referring to the recent administration claims that hospitals, doctors, drug makers
are all on board to lower their costs, there are
concerns being raised by some as to just what are the
incentives offered to obtain an agreement.

"But some lawmakers said the deals, while seemingly helpful, could raise false expectations by obscuring how much the industry is demanding for its concessions."

"Health deals could harbor hidden costs"

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/08/health/policy/08health.html?hp

It is reported insurance companies are spending millions daily in Washington to look out for their interests. Where & how is this money being spent? Who receives it & where does it go? Doesn't sound like they are on board sounds more like they are fighting it with all they can throw at it.

Blonde, Excellent interview with Howard Dean

Is it any wonder then that Dean has been locked out
of the discussion.

His reasoned, clear explanation of how to reform
health care, would expose the on-going deal-making in Congress to pass something/anything.

hi coreen

Dr. Dean...a little too much actual health care reform for the Obama Administration.

When Obama introduced his plan he said we have to go slowly....

what a pile of poop

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/08/biden-hospital-leaders-an_n_227590.html

Here's an article about the progress or lack thereof being made to provide coverage for the uninsured. This makes me thnk either that a public option is not being realistically considered, or that this is the substitute plan for it.

Hey KGC,

"hope" & "change" = "smoke" & "mirrors"---Nothing
changes that really helps the American people.

Remember, my pet peeve remains Obama's promise to push for a change in the law to permit bankruptcy court judges to modify loans--but oh! they never fought to include that in the legislation that was passed.

We need a riot or a march....who can organize such an event? A sea of humans on the steps of the Capital demanding what we have been promised. Yep, we need a health march on Washington.

Blonde - Not sure who you refer to looking down.. et el.. or however you say to everyone ...

The consequences of patient behavior if elemented would reduce Billions from the bottom line - We would not need to spend More and could have access for everyone.
The factor of Profit is not a bad thing. I do not understand the drivers of some of these responses. It is Profit that funds innovation which advances healthcare

Now I agree excessive abuse is wrong - Some of the marketing and snuggle up that some big US companies might do are costly.

But the math is really simple - and we must continue to fuel the innovations to advance Healthcare with higher quality - YES we have better outcomes in the US !! but at more effiecent and lower costs

ping pong...if the pharma companies really cared about health care, they would stop advertising viagra and put the money back into the system instead of advertising. Priorities get screwed-up in the hands of the private insurance companies. Profiting on people getting sick!

Ping

You are starting to sound like a Communist.
Any health care program has to work with the people they have not some perfect desired people.

It was the big mistake of followers of Marx. they wanted to make the people fit the system.

If you are so worried about bad habits start a nonprofit to educate the American people.
But if you require people to change or like a pious Joseph Stalin make them change by force, then you not only will fail but you will, like Mr Stalin< make matters much worse.

Jack

" Really a shame, a stain on the US."

Hear, hear, BW!!!

Thanks for that bluegrass link, Flatus. My favorite Alison Kraus moment came when MCA came courting, trying to lure her away from Rounder. She turned them down because she knew that sooner or later the conglomerate would start to dictate to her. God love her for it, too....the music streets are littered with people who lost control.

KGC

Evidently you and Jamie haven't dealt with elderly healthcare lately.
From my prospective the problem isn't from the doctors overly prolonging life. In fact with my mother they seemed all to eager for her to die and move on.

We ended up paying for her rehabilitation so she could get strong enough for a heart pacemaker to be installed. The doctors said rehabilitation would do no good so Medicare didn't pay for it.

If my sister had not been a cardiac nurse, I am certain the medical establishment would have convinced us that she was beyond medical help.

So I have to admit I have a bit of a predjudice but when I hear your statement about too much end of life care,
I hear "Why don't they crawl off and die"

Jack

Posted by: Ping Pong | July 8, 2009 8:02 AM :

"What is the number one driver of rising healthcare costs?
It is either our individual bad behavior and the FAT Attack that we Americans are going to.

OR

It is the Defensive Med that Doc's practice adding a test or two just in case John Edwards gets the case.

This is the problem with our Government - they do not fix problems - the get Duck Tape and create more problems"

Neither. The "Fat Attack" is not yet the big player that it will be. Fortunately, most Americans have quit smoking, but the chronic illnesses caused by that republican subsidized and protected vice are still plaguing the National pocketbook.

The interesting thing is that Mr. Pong does not make any suggestion, but rather leaves us with a confused nothing, as if there were no resolution possible, other than government-forced weight loss, such as is practiced in Zimbabwe, Darfur, and brian's beloved redChina.

Regarding Mr. Pong's 3d point, he should qualify the statement to read, 'This problem with republican Government - they do not fix problems..." The governmental philosophy of the republican party holds as axiomatic that government doesn't work. Therefore, whenever republicans come to power, they make certain that government acts according to the axiom. The late, unlamented bushabramovensignrepublican Administration demonstrated to perfection that republican government uses Duck Tape and creates more problems.

Hovever, it should be noted that the Democrats now control 2 of the 3 branches of government, and Democrats do not hold the alleged fecklessness of government to be axiomtic. This difference in views of government explains how Democrats often have successful presidents, whereas a successful republican president happens roughly once every 48 years.

The conservative group's commercial regarding the governmental official (government health police) who is in the room with you and your doctor....geez, what a joke!

First of all, I wait an hour in the exam room by myself for a NETWORK doctor (not of my choice) to eventully see me. The health police would be welcome! At least someone would know I was in the room and talk to me to pass the time.

"YES we have better outcomes in the US !! but at more effiecent and lower costs." - Ping

What a load of crap. We spend half again as much on healthecare as the next highest country per person on an annual basis, and it does not equate to longer life expectancy

http://ucatlas.ucsc.edu/spend.php

more care

http://www.chiff.com/a/HLFH703cost.htm

or better outcomes

http://www.mckinsey.com/mgi/rp/healthcare/accounting_cost_healthcare.asp

Btw, the debate is not solely about health care costs. In fact that discussion is secondary, and it puts the cart before the horse. That conversation about cost arises only as a result of the main conversation, which is, "how do we make health care accessible to the roughly 50 million uninsured Americans, while removing heaviest burden of health care from the backs of American businesses and the inner urban counties?"

The "FAT Attack" question is something Mr. Pong should bring up with his physician, as the Federal Government will not be meddling in his "Fat Attack" problems. This is called 'limited government'.

ooooh.... how to say we need a single payer non-profit system or at least a public plan and discuss the problems with our current system without repeating ourselves over and over again... now that's a hard task.... :0)

Jack.... I do agree with you about Ping sounding like a communist.... I've mentioned before that Rick and I were good friends with an Iranian couple when we were first married. What I haven't mentioned is they were communists and used to hide Mao's little red book beneath the floorboards in their kitchen. We used to have discussions that sometimes would last all night about communism vs democracy. After listening to how great it would be when everyone behaved a certain way, I would point out a few facts about human behavior. I was emphatically told that everyone would change once they were educated. I was only 21-22 yrs old at the time, and thought it sounded as much a fairy tale as the virgin birth or raising people from the dead.... at 54, I still think of it that way.

Raining, and could not pour some concrete today. I have been getting some work like I used to 30 years ago. Driveways, porches, patios, etc. I had to re-start, why couldn't the large corps do the same, oh yes, "they are too big to fail" bs.

Between the two parties, all they have to do is to change a cpl, of laws, make a lot of noise about how each others ideas are better than the others, etc, etc, They know that we will take up the cause for them. They know that we are suckers, and will root for our team to win, not for what is best for all, D's, and R's/

What we need is the "courage" like the Iranian people showed when they went out on the streets to demonstrate: We need the courage to not place one single vote for any of them, the courage to vote for only a third party, or a person like Kucinich, or R. Paul, or with hold our vote entirely, until they give us the health program that they have, enjoy them selves.

Obama is not going to do anything diff than Bush did; he is just going to work with diff corp. heads, like Daschle, and the like. Why is it that Obama can tell all of the Banks (after they got all of the $ that they wanted) that there were money caps, and get that done? more deals were made imo, he did not close the loop holes that allowed them to give themselves a pay raise that made up the difference.

They were shouting that it wasn't fair of the administration to put a cap on their bonus. T his created the diversion that they wanted; That is all the public talked about. They-the- News papers were in a back and forth about how the government, and Obama should not be the ceo of the corps, what experience did he have? well they got the people looking, talking about all of the bs.

Banks are not lending $ to regular people, I don't care how Obama, and Biden spins it.

OBAMA RELEASE THE STIMULUS $ TO THE REGULAR PEOPLE NOW!!!!

ps........we had the chance to start all over again, but we did not take it, we looked the other way while Obama re-hired the same people that got us into this mess. He sold us the emergency bs. That we had to get $ out to the banks, and other institutions before we could get any.

Sounds like trickle down to me!!!. I did not work when Reagan did it, it is not working now. We should have let AIG fail, and, or have taken our time and do it on a one by one basis like I said, and done it right. They is our faults, I keep saying cos we keep buying their bs. and defending it when it goes all wrong.

xrep...great comment. However, it is more than the uninsured poor, it is the poor coverage of the already insured. Bankruptcy for health care! Credit card companies willing working with you on putting your hospital bill on credit! Nonesense. Something is very wrong now that the credit card companies are in the health care bill paying business...they even advertise this fact.

solar...yep, time for a citizen stimulus.

XR, I'm of a different mind. The debate is not solely about the cost of healthcare, but the cost of healthcare discussion is central to the question of how we make healthcare accessible to the 50 million uninsured. Unless healthcare costs can be reduced, assuming that the same leel of care at the same cost would be provided to the currently uninsured, it would be necessary to increase overall healthcare spending by about 20% as compared to current levels. That is not necessarily the case of course since many of the uninsured receive some level of care through ERs, but they certainly do not receive the same level of care as the insured do.

And yes, REnee, the answer is single payor.

If individuals want to be covered by a gov't plan that I will be forced to subsidize then I think it's only fair that they be charged accordingly for unhealthy behaviour.

overweight, smoking, no exercise, abuse drugs, alcohol.

If I have to pay for them....and I will..... then I thinks it's fair to demand that they do their part.

Renee, from right next door to you.

http://sanders.senate.gov/petitions/index.cfm?uid=7fd59f2e-88e1-477a-8eaf-762a5b050809

jax...while you are at it, we need to look at unhealthy sexual behavior, too.

Blonde,
I agree.....I'd love to see everyone have to go for their yearly physical which also required a weight, body fat check and mandatory physical fitness screening.

You don't pass....you pay.......very simple.

So jax, you are in favor of taxing bad behavior? How very Democratic of you.

What about pregnancy, Jax? What happens if you pass that test?

I'm only in favor of it if I have to subsidize it. If I don't have to pay then I say be free....behave as you want. live and let live.....but if you want a handout from me then I want standards of behaviour.

Blonde,

We'll give the pregnant ladies a 30 sec head start on the mile run.......:)

Why can't we get a 9 member panel of professionals to make up 2-4 plans, improve on the one that we have, a single pays plan, co-payment plan etc, and run them thru the computers, with all of the data about the sick, about the treatments, for all of the reasons that people go to their doctors for.

The cost of paper work, the cost of Attys' all of it Try them out on the computers, and do the one or two for a cpl of years and adopt the best one.....if a gamope like me can give some half ass ideas, why can't they come up with a viable working one?

Jax,

Why should the fat, people etc. pay for the unhealthy behavior of the Corporations that got us into this mess??? why should they pay for the Lawyer fees that come from so much interpretation of paper work that they are forced to sign before they get medical attention?

jax...when my husband was in his surgeon's office discussing the procedure for cancer, the doctor stated "everyone wants something for nothing" when we were asking about costs. And he is the only NETWORK doctor to handle the procedure in my area. IHis statement was incorrect, out-of-line, but really the doctor's true feelings. Well, we have paid over $3,000 in premiums and $11,000 for the out of pocket and co-pays. And this is free? Medicare is not a handout.

I actually do agree with Ping on the obesity issue and the contribution of poor lifestyle choices to morbidity. Diet, alcohol, tobacco and lack of exercise are the major contributors to heart disease and certain cancers, and as most of us know, heart disease is the No. 1 cause of premature death in the US.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5606a2.htm

It won't solve the healthcare crisis, it won't ensure that you won't get heart disease or cancer, and it won't even insure that you won't be struck down by a heart attack despite your best efforts, but if you want to improve your chances of living longer with fewer illnesses, eat more vegetables and fruit and less meat, drink less or not at all, don't smoke, and take a walk every so often.

Solar, lunch.

Fat people are unhealthy for us; as is the fat pharmaceuticals that make unhealthy drugs that are put on the market just to make more fat people sick.

Jax, then you are in favor of it - you do pay for medicare and medicaid, and a few other programs that provide health care.

Hey Im all wound up, you can't just yell lunch. Carramba=Dang.

Blonde,

Every plan mentioned out there requires that those like me pay for more for someone elses care.

It's very simple.....if you can't pay it all yourself then someone else is picking up part of the tab. Some other person is paying for some of that care. A real person somewhere is paying for that care. Not the gov't.

I guess health care is divided into preventative and catastrophic. In my case, I only have catastrophic health insurance and my husband has preventative. It was a financial decision we had to make. We both could not afford to be on same plan. I am in better health than my husband, but accidents can happen.

Pogo,
I don't think that medicare or medicaid carries any penalty for unhealthy behaviour. I think that they should.

Nope, Jax. The way my insurance works is they discount the doctor's fees. They do not pay those big hospital bills for 'things'....that is "why" in-network is cheaper than out-of-network.. Everytime medicare is taken out of your check or you pay self-employment taxes, you are paying for someone else. And so what?

The best argument for the bottom line people is the one that someone posted last week

The cost of UH would be a trillion over 10 years: I now costs some where abour 16.5 bil per year to treat the uninsured. Given inflation for the ten year period you woud get UH for free.

I have told this to one of my good friends, told him to prove it diff, he has since told me that he has changed his mind on it, and that this makes sense. They is the way to argue this matter no??

"So I have to admit I have a bit of a predjudice but when I hear your statement about too much end of life care,
I hear "Why don't they crawl off and die"

Oh, Jack -- I don't think that's what they are saying at all. I have seen some of the most outrageous things go down in the past ten years when it comes to old folks and terminal illness. People in their 80s and 90s are being plugged in, pumped full and left to languish.

My father took care of that BS himself. He would not allow himself to be hooked up just for a few more months of pain. He checked himself out of the hospital and into a private care facility. His last week was not spent with tubes shoved down his throat and into his gut -- but with my mom taking him for some spins through the nursing home grounds in a wheelchair.

Nobody wants people to crawl off and die, but to have some small amount of dignity at the end of their lives.

Blonde,
I'm like you. I cover my family for catastrophic insurance and cash for anything else. I do my best to negotiate beforehand but once in a while the emergency room pops up. I have 3 teenage boys. My costs average about $10,000 per year for a family of 5.

pogo....
I get multiple weekly emails for signing petitions for single payer healthcare...
I add my name and send them off.... only god knows what good it'll do....

Jax....
why so narrow a focus.... accidents happen.... and not just doing sports such as skiing or any type of racing.... I've been told that if one drives a motorcycle one could expect to get hurt doing that..... and you never know... I tore a ligament in my foot from hitting a small depression in a friend's backyard.... and you never know when a rock could come flying at you while you're sitting in the park.... or a loose brick fall on your head when walking city streets.... my recommendation of personal responsibility is that everyone must wear knee, elbow pads and shin guards.....
men must wear cups.... helmets be mandatory.... and of course, wear your mouth guard....

oh and if you find the above too troublesome..... just get a plastic bubble....
it will help if you meet a bear or a beaver while hiking in the woods....

jax...why must health care be punitive? We can promote (I thought the government was already doing this with the surgeon general???) good health by preventative clinics and provide care for the sick at the same time, no matter how they got there!

"I'd love to see everyone have to go for their yearly physical which also required a weight, body fat check and mandatory physical fitness screening. You don't pass....you pay.......very simple."

LMAO, Jax! I get it -- only people in poor health have to pay. Screw 'em. Yer walkin' close to totalitarianism there, son....

Patsi,
No one would force them to participate. It's just that if they did it would require some basic healthy behaviour requirements.

I know why it's not popular on this forum......it would require some accountability on the part of the recipients. "Personal Accountability" isn't a popular notion amoungst alot of the boomers....:)

Back from road trip...put 2400 miles on the odometer...

Renee -- bears came out of the woods in the Alleghenies of PA. Never been that close to live 500-pounders. We were outside when they came strolling up for corn that had been put out for the deer. Ran inside...not that a sliding screen door would have been any protection. I 'spose "feeding bears" was a "risky behaviour" I should have been penalized for had I been injured. Could've tripped on the porch steps, I was so nervous!

patsi...if everyone had to take a test for smoking, body fat, etc., it might cut costs....no one would go to the doctor under those circumstances. : )

jax...preventative is fine, but not the only issue. The are also natural events such as pregnancy. Should the government pay for that? Pay for the prevention of pregnancy?

P.S. I left on Father's Day...did anything important happen while I was gone?

(^_~)

patsi...both of my parents died in their own beds...my father resisted the hospital and three times he turned away paramedics. It was a difficult time, but I want the same thing...no hosptial and enough drugs to put myself down at home. Death is another natural event we have put into the hands of the health insurance industry.

Blonde,

So you think that people would prefer to smoke and remain fat if their healthcare required some effort on their part.

Look at it this way. Let's say I'm your neighbor. You come over to me and say.

"Listen, I'm too fat and I smoke too much to mow my lawn. The gov't says that you' need to mow my lawn for me.....don't miss any spots....."

Does that seem right?

Jax...how did you know my neighbor was fat and smoked??? Amazing.

However, in New Mexico we use rock in our yards.

Blonde,

If we don't start getting some more rain here in Houston I may have to adopt the rock yard myself.....:)

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/health-reform-battle-lines.html#comment-242385

Jax --

Health insurance was originally designed for catastrophic coverage... hospitalization, surgery, etc. Problem today started with HMO's confusing the coverage. People now expect pre-paid health care. That's not insurance.

RR,

You could do that....or just PAY for your clumsiness or stupidity yourself........I realize its a minority opinion....:)

Ivy,

You are exactly 100% right. And I personally would have much less issue with paying into a common catastrophic coverage fund.

jax...my dog is rock trained...grass confuses her. It is amusing to watch her "wet" on grass.

Ivy,

I think that catastrophic should be part of your life insurance.

Ivy,
Even the doctors are so programmed by the insurance companies that they practically panic when I try to negotiate rates for services. Their eyes bug out when I ask them for a price list on simple procedures.....like office visit......it would be comical if it wasn't so sad.

I've had much better luck with dentists, orthodontists, chiroprators and sports medicine being able to actually quote for services without involving insurance.

jax...some of the doctors who performed services for my husband were so discounted, it was embarassing. How could I ask a doctor to reduce his rate even more? One doctor charged $1500. and the insurance discounted his bill by $1200. and our share was $35. However, the $12,000. probe was never discounted and how we wished we could have at least kept such an expensive piece of equipment! Shit, we should have been able to drive it out of the hospital...hey, how about a free GM car with all government surgeries??? Now that would be government health care!

Blonde,
I think that's alot of the problem. I think doctors inflate the prices knowing that they will be deeply discounted by insurance.

They won't offer a cash customer the discounted rate because the insurance company would want to use that discounted rate as a base.

I've pointed out to them the no paperwork and instant payment advantages but alot of them are afraid.

I'd like us to keep it simple:
Insurance should cover most of preventive and wellness care; require a large co-pay for everything up to a maximum out of pocket of $10,000; and cover 100% of cost of 'reasonable care' beyond that. There are already insurance policies out there that provide coverage.

Require coverage for everyone by requiring employers to provide coverage (with employee contribution.) The unemployed would be covered by a pool of existing insurance companies. It would be costly, but most of the costs would be redistribution of costs rather than new expenses.

Single provider is simply not in the cards right now. Insurance companies would make the determination about what is reasonable and medically necessary, with an appeal board (much like the federal government's plan works now.)

bingo, jax. You have hit the core, why does the insurance company need to set costs? Let the government take it over to standardize costs. Remember how well wall street self-regulates?

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/health-reform-battle-lines.html#comment-242403

Jax --

I probably couldn't get life insurance - my behavior's too risky, what with running from bears and all.

(^_~)

Blonde,

I think that we as a society gave up our power when we allowed day to day health decisions to be made by health insurance companies. I know why we did it. It was easy. But easy isn't always better and now we are paying the price.

I fully understand the need and practicality of pooling national resources for catastrophic coverage like your husbands procedures.

I just think that we need to look at day to day care like we do our food or housing bills. It'll be a hard task to get back to that......

cajunjoe...your wrote...

"Single provider is simply not in the cards right now."

Says who? Oh, that's right, the insurance companies hold all of the cards!

Ivy,
Remember.....With bears you only need to be faster than the guy running next to you.......:)

That's what I tell my 70 year old Dad when we're fly-fishing in Wyoming......:)

Blondie,

The political cards, so you're for the most part right. But health care providers hold some of the cards. The consumer few.

Cajun,
You're talking about an HSA (health savings account) which is what I have......Not thast popular with the gov't.....too much control by the individual.

jax...over 30% of my net salary goes to insurance of some type or another. It is out-of-control. I need shelter and fuel (food), but do I need to pay so much insurance when in essence it won't cover the whole bill??

I still remember back in 1999, the insurance companies would not insure businesses unless they had a contigency plan in place when the world went kaput because of computers and the year 2000! Yep, I had to submit a detailed data recovery plan for when the world ended on New Year's day 2000. It was stupid along with all of that Y2K water I stored!

Blonde,
I know that as we age our medical costs as a percentage of income goes up. Both a function of higher cost and lower income.

I'm not sure what a good percentage is. Are many of the uinsured even eligible for medicare? I don't know if this current healthcare debate does much for those already on medicare.

Ivy...
I was wondering where you went... I forgot you mentioned that trip.... good to have you back.... and no... nothing has happened... ;)

Jax....
okey dokey.... but if you fall off your boat and get bitten by a great white shark don't let me know.... cuz I ain't payin' for it, bub.... :0)

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/health-reform-battle-lines.html#comment-242415

Jax --

Well, I WAS the fastest...in fact, I was the only one moving. My friends stood still while laughing at me. Even the bears were laughing, I'm sure that's what the snorting noises they made were.

Jack

Don't confuse poor doctoring with inapporpriate extension of life or exordinary efforts when someone is clearly dying.
http://www.ahrq.gov/clinic/ptsafety/chap49.htm

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/health-reform-battle-lines.html#comment-242422

Renee --

I made a long trip with various stops in Virginia, Maryland and Pennsylvania. The cabin sojourn was in the mountains above Huntingdon, PA where Juniata College is located.

RR,
That's a deal.....If I survive I may hit you up for a stiff drink though....:)

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/health-reform-battle-lines.html#comment-242381

No, jax, those programs do not have a penalty for the effects of alcohol, tobacco, poor diet, lack of exercise and the like, and I don't support such penalties be adminstered through government run, taxpayer funded health plans. I do however support the government taxing those things that contribute to the increased utilization of those services, like alcohol, toobacco, fat, etc.

And anything that is paid for by any kind of insurance is paid for by a risk poool of real people. Your point is what, exactly - that in the case of the government we are all part of the risk pool through the taxes we pay - although we can only participate in the programs if we are eligible and utilize them? Welcome to the "general welfare" clause.

KGC,
Well put.

Pogo,

You're a typical " No Personal Accountability" boomer.
Don't penailze my behaviour.....tax others instead.

It's all gov't money anyway. It'll be wasted by somebody....:)

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/health-reform-battle-lines.html#comment-242422

Renee --

I did hear about one thing that happened while I was gone...some coup or something in Honduras? Only because a friend's relative decided to evacuate, not because there was anything here on the news. Apparently some other important event preempted all the news on our networks. Luckily, I was in a partial news blackout.

Rather than hammering penalties for high-risk behaviors, why not sell the concept of cost-reduction incentives for preventing them? If I tell the smokers in my family they need to quit, I get a barrage of abuse. But wave some dollars at them, they start to listen.

Jax, bullshit. Taxing only those who partake in products the use of which yields the bad results you speak of is taxing the behavior. What I don't agree with is making individuals pay after they engage in the behavior - and I disagree with having a system the purpose of which is to provide and pay for healthcare administering the penalties. My grandmother was fat and did no exercise, but she did not smoke, drink, or overeat - she had diabetes and was unable to control her weight or do anything other than the most basic exercise. I would not have wanted some idiotic bureaucrat - government or private - to decide she should be penalized because she was fat and inactive. My grandfather on the other hand did drink, but he did not smoke, walked everywhere he went if it was within walking distance. He was penalized for his drinking through the taxes he paid on his alcohol. Seems like a pretty fair way to do that to me - of course that assumes the taxes on the alcohol go to fund healthcare - which they do not for the most part. There is the source of part of the problem.

Let's charge people with bad posture more also, as well as those who eat meat, choose to live near coal-fired power plants, send their kids to school when they have the sniffles...

I guess we most likely will not get what we need or want. Obama has already failed by his stance on the single payer system.

When I was in Phoenix at the end of June, my B-I-L, who was an ardent Obama supporter, is now at odds with the prez. He feels he has abandoned many of his election promises. My B-I-L was a true believer, but now he really feels the guy will be a one-term president.

Kgc

What I'm saying, except in rare cases, it is not a problem.

Among the first things ask when I went intoi the hospital for chest pains was information about an advanced directive and who made my medical decisions.

With my mother they went over a detailed form that obtained her wishes in that regard. The hospitals are very much on this in my experience.
So much so that with my mother they seemed a little too eager.

so in the health care debate it is a bit like pings worrying about fat people. A total side issue.

Jack

Ivy,

I know that some companies experimented with a bonus of some sort if people participated in work-out program.

I would be willing to get screened and tested each year if it allowed me to enter into a lower risk pool and drop my insurance costs. I think that would be great.

AND, let's not forget to penalize risky behavior like playing sports, getting a suntan...

c-joe

: ) Great line!

Jack

You assume your experience is universal but it isn't

Cajun,

Only need to be penalized if you don't want to pay yourself.....I'm willing to pay to play......

Just don't ask me to play for you to play....:)

It's all about personal accountability......I can see its a foreign concept here....:)

Posted by: jaxtrader Author Profile Page | July 8, 2009 1:40 PM

It sounds good on paper
I think I should not have had my premium double when I turned sixty because I am healthy and not on any medications for chronic conditions.

KGC,

Although age is certainly a risk factor, I think you ought to be able to mitigate that with documented healthy behaviour. I'm not sure if they even consider that.

Jax,
If your entire medical requirement is met by your health savings account, I tip my hat to you. I could see an option for self-insurance for those who can afford it and attest to it, as is the case for some with car insurance. But for most people (and that is what we're talking about here) that is not an option. That's why insurance was invented, to pool risk.

jax

They do not consider it all. They are just hoping you can squeeze out the payments until medicare and hope you buy medigap coverage from them

It sucks to be old in America. Except for early bird specials and discount movie tickets everyone else is out to rip your off.
Just look at the medicare drug coverage --the beneficiary is the drug company not the patient.

Pogo,

It's only the misuse or overuse of those products that promotes bad health. Moderate choices on most of those products result in no adverse effects and in some cases positive results.

But you're fine taxing those that make good choices in consumption at the same rate as those that abuse it.

Again, no personal accoutability required....:)

As for whether or not, your medical treatment is preventative or catastrophic, I say lets put everyone in one bucket and treat it the same. So, if you got into the bucket because of bad habits (smoked too much) or someone else's bad habits (drunk driver), so be it. You can get treated for your medical conditon of the moment. Auto insurance could eleminate medical coverage with a government single payer system. That is a terrific source of $$$$ and exactly "why" insurance companies are fighting this.

Blonde Wino on a roll.

Cajun,
I cover everything under my HSA. Some years I do better than others. It is a risk pool just like all others.
I just agree to cover the first $5000.00 of costs each year.
After that the ins co. pays everything. I lost the tax deduction due to income penalties but for most it's treated like an IRA. I think it could work for alot of people.

One of the big issues I've seen recently is the debate between "curing" someone of an illness or just simply "prolonging" their life. The last week of my Dad's life, he went to see his doctor. He asked his doctor "When am I gonna start feeling better?" His doctor said, "You aren't going to start feeling better." My Dad died 5 days later. Not sure if what the doctor said finally set in and he just stopped fighting." I've heard of 2 people who were seriously injured in motorcycle accidents recently. It just makes me realize why I've never had the urge to own a motorcycle. I know how you feel KGC, I've known some people who have reached their 80's and have had very little medical problems in their life. My brother-in-law's Dad turned 80 this year and he's been pretty healthy. But, after a recent trip to the doctor he was told that he had a spot on his lungs. He was was supposed to find out the results of his tests today. It could be lung cancer. I was shocked because I'd never seen him smoke. However, I was told that he was a social smoker back some 40 years ago. He used to smoke all the time at family gatherings. It doesn't seem right that he would get lung cancer at the age of 80. Although it may seem geeky to some, I always wear a helmet when I go bike riding now. It's funny how as you get older you take more precautions even when doing basic things.

KGC...you forgot the endless hounding from AARP.

Corey,

That's the glitch.....some take precautions. Some don't.
For some reason though the ones that don't ....want to be taken care of by everyone else when it finally catches up to them.....

I don't get it......

My Dad always gave me the same warning every time I was about to do something that was either stupid or risky. He would say, "You're gonna fall and break your ass!" So I grew up thinking that any time anyone did something stupid or risky they were gonna break their ass. It wasn't until I got older that I realized how very little that actually happens.

Corey

Nice post. I guess the sum total is "Life is not fair."
I hope it is not lung cancer but a spot on the xray machine instead.

Blonde Wino

The very reason I do not pay dues to the AARP
Gray Panthers all the way.

Once upon a time, when I was the administrator of a self-funded health plan for a school system, it was a lot more fun to develop incentives for healthy lifestyles than to enact penalties for unhealthy ones. Punitives usually got me tarred-and-feathered. Getting employees involved and making it their program was key. Our rising costs levelled, then dipped. One year we rebated premiums to participating employees (yes, it was an election year, and the county commissioners insisted - I would have preferred to build up our reserve.) Anyways, my point is I have seen well structured plans that work even during high cost economies.

31% of Americans are Obese 30+ pounds overweight.
65% of Americans are over-weight 10-30 lbs overwieght.

How many are in these catagories by choice? Not medically beyond their control. My guess is 95%.......

Damn, those insurance companies.......:)

47 million Americans over 18 still smoke.......:)

jax...how many people (under and over 18) have unprotected sex? Isn't sex a choice? Should we pay for pregnancies or STD treatments?

It isn't surprising that AARP sure sells a lot of insurance. They also fervently supported GWB's medicare prescription plan fiasco....that is when I began to loathe their constant presence in all kinds of insurance. Insurance pimps.

Blonde,
If you employ the 80-20 rule....Obesity and Soking account for a huge percentage of our costs. STD's not so much.....

Jax, that is not true- at least not as you state it, and certainly not for all potentially harmful products. Take cigarettes as an example.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/health-reform-battle-lines.html#comment-242381

Misuse and overuse of those products - including cigarettes - does not necessarily result in the bad outcomes you would penalize people for experiencing (they do cause those outcomes in a certain percentage of users, but not universally; they do, however increase the risk of those outcomes, usually expressed along a dose/response curve - as demonstrated in the study from the link above), or for that matter bad outcomes caused by lifestyle choices that can be distinguished from other things that cause the same outcomes (e.g. asbestos and smoking - the lung cancer risk is 60 times greater than from either product alone). Under your penalty scheme, smokers who don't get cancer would not be part of the pool penalized for their bad behavior. Only those whose bad behavior eventually led to bad consequences would be penalized - which certainly is an ineffective basis for spreading risk. BTW It's the auto insurer's approach to risk - which is purely profit motivated.

And again using cigarette smoking as an example, smoking affects others through secondhand exposure, which causes about 3000 cases of lung cancer annually among non-smokers, who also have to be treated and whose care should be paid for by smokers. Taxing the behavior on the front end is the only way to accomplish that as opposed to making smokers pay for their care when they contract smoking related disease.

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Tobacco/ETS

I have applauded penalties on users of harmful products in the form of taxes on those products that are known to cause disease and other products that cause other costs to society because of the deterrent effect of those taxes. If the revenues raised through those taxes were used to pay for the care the products necessitate, rather than say, road repairs, the loop would be complete and the users of the products would be paying for the care they need.

"oh and if you find the above too troublesome..... just get a plastic bubble....
it will help if you meet a bear or a beaver while hiking in the woods.... "

ROFL! Renee you always make me laugh!

Jax, my 2:36 post relates to this one of yours.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/health-reform-battle-lines.html#comment-242447

Well, Jax, most people smoke after sex and eat too much when they are not getting any cigarettes or sex. So, that is how the life cycle continues in America.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/health-reform-battle-lines.html#comment-242451

Corey, he may be in that 13% of nonsmokers who get lung cancer, or he may be in that group of ex smokers who get lung cancer. (I say may be because different studies define those things differently).

Smokers should and do in most cases pay more for their coverage. That behaviour is penalized. Smoking is the only behaviour that is taxed and penalized that I am aware of.

I am saying that other behaviours such as obesity and misusing drugs/alcohol should be given the same treatment.

As you've said the tax isn't even used for healthcare Only the penalty in higher premiums goes to healthcare. The penalties don't effect those that make good personal decisions. The tax does.

Blondie, LOL. Since I don't smoke I just steam a little if it's cool enough. Same for th' missus.

ROFL@Pogo, too....

Jax -- who gets to decide what constitutes risky behavior? What about the kind of car you drive, how fast you drive, where you vacation, what kind of work and hobbies you have...the list is endless.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/health-reform-battle-lines.html#comment-242463

"I have applauded penalties on users of harmful products in the form of taxes..."

Pogo --

But it makes them mad-as-hell and anti-government. Then they stockpile weapons.

Patsi,

Once again. Small potatoes compared to smoking and obesity......

Like I've said....do whatever you like....just don't ask others to pay......It's a simple concept......:)

The fact that the tax isn't used for the healthcare is a flaw in the system, and it is a flaw that should be fixed. And I agree that the other harmful behaviors should be taxed if they lead to increased healthcare costs. I do not agree that penalizing the behavior by denying care is an appropriate approach - as I said, it's what the auto insurers do through policy cancellation. Misuse is a moving target because the studies showing beneficial effects from this or that level of use (we're talking about alcohol here, correct?) are nothing if not inconsistent - and the beneficial effects of this or that "sin" tend to be tied more to who funded the studies showing those effects than to the product.

Patsi, are you laughing at me, with me, or near me? :-)

Pogo,
We can talk about outliers all day. Smoking and obesity......vast majority.....penalize the behaviour.

How long have we had a cigarette tax? 30-40 years.
Yet you still support it and think it's effective? I'm wondering when you might consider it ineffective.

You want others just like it? Are you sure?

Ivy - tax the weapons, too. Actually, we have those mad as hell anti-gov nuts up here in spades. Remember the Mountaineer Militia - the guys who wanted to blow up the FBI fingerprint facility? Yup, local yokels from around here, mad at the world, armed to the teeth and dumb as a sack of rocks.

pogo...patsi is laughing with you, I think...and it is so dry here in the desert, we neither smoke or steam after sex unless it is monsoon.

Blonde...

You go girl. AARP sold seniors out on the Prescription Drug Plan. They are nothing but a Insurance Brokerage Firm and I am proud to say I am not a member.

Pogo...

Lets not forget to punish those who inhale the Air because it is loaded with toxins that can cause Cancer and many other diseases because they do not wear inhaler filters of some sort to keep the harmful vapors out of their systems.

Hell lets just punish everyone and let them die when they get sick. Lets just let them be responsible and die for their sins.

Above is being sarcastic.

Cigarette smoking has declined to its lowest rates since th 20s - think that's coincidence? It's definitely declined since the new lallapalooza tax that put a pack of cigs at better than $4 was initiated here. And I surely don't attribute the decline in smoking rates to Americans getting any smarter - all appearances are to the contrary.

http://www.jointogether.org/news/research/summaries/2008/us-smoking-rate-hits.html

Is it perfectly effective? No, but then again, nicotine is addictive. Addicts don't really quit because their drug is expensive.

A-P, some behaviors that are potentially taxable are less elective than others. :-) (btw, Love the sarcasm - my favorite form of humor).

I wonder if Craig's health insurance paid for his Chantix? Or was it a co-pay, Craig?

What everyone seems to forget, is that when you are talking to people like Jax: They aren't really talking about health care, or anything that you are talking about.

They are talking about how they see government spending his hard earned money; while he doesn't mind spending our hard earned money on the things that they do want government to do.

They are not talking about health care, they are talking about how much you are taking away from their families, how much will be left for them to inherit. If he is right; why should I pay for a fire department, I have never caused a fire, or why should I pay for police, pay for the Churches that don't pay any taxes, etc. etc. True Christians they are.

While away, I missed a commemoration of significance (to me, at least) on June 27 which happened to be the day of my niece’s wedding. So better late than never, June 27 marked the birthday of Helen Keller, champion of the disabled, who was born at her family home of Ivy Green in Tuscumbia, Alabama in 1880.

“I am deeply interested in politics,” Keller wrote in 1901. “I used to think that when I studied [politics], all my difficulties and perplexities would blossom into beautiful certainties; but alas, I find there are more tares than wheat in these fertile fields of knowledge…”

U. H. would be a functional arrangement that allows modern society to exist in the best way possible IMO. If there isn't; we will pay for it in the long run any way.

"Patsi, are you laughing at me, with me, or near me? :-)"

Ha -- just love the steaming after sex concept....

Pogo,

Regarding your 11:31 AM post, the added 20% cost would be offset by
1. the elimination of the waste fraud and abuse in Insurance company bureaucracies that amounts to about 20% - about half of what it was 20 years ago, but still outrageously high.
2. easier access to health care would mean that poor people would be more likely to have complaints dealt with before they became major. Thus, they would be less likely to visit expensive emergency rooms.

The cost of the national health system is not as critical as the question of where the money comes from.

1. Too much of our health care costs are borne by poor, but populous, urban counties that are hardly able to cope with the cost of their patients. Counties use the regressive property tax to fund their programs. Exurban and outer ring sububurban counties are not so burdened.

A national system would tap into a more progressive tax base.

2. Small service and merchant businesses that compete in free enterprise usually work on small profit margins. Such companies are the backbone and growth engine of the nation. They are also at a distinct disadvantage when it comes to purchasing insurance for their empoyees, which is why so many uninsured people are counter help, hamburger flippers, gardeners, menial laborors, etc. The first of the companies in the neighborhood that insures it's employees is nearly guaranteed to go under, as it will no longer be competitive in the market.

The question is not how we will pay for it - because we already do - but rather, do we need it, will it promote the common good, and who will bear the cost ?

Ivy, as you might guess, we 'bama kids were taught about Helen Keller in Alabama history in elementary school. I was fascinated by her story and absolutely loved "The Miracle Worker" when I saw it. I don't believe I ever knew that Helen's birthplace was named Ivy Green - what a great coincidence - that's what you call yourself. :-)

BW

Smoking after sex: Is nothing more than a pleasurable state "joy", accompanied by the idea of an external cause, or any lame excuse. Later have to go get a pack of cigs HA!

New ad says pot smokers "happy to be taxed'' -- can they help with CA's budget crunch?
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/nov05election/detail?entry_id=43168

OK, Patsi, I just like to be clear about what I'm being laughed at for at any given time. :-)

XR, see, I think the question is about how we will pay for it - which is different from "where will the money come from?" We don't disagee much on this XR - but from a political standpoint, in order to get the paidforbythehealthcarelobby senators and reps to vote for the healthcare reform that is going to eventually happen, I think that clarity about funding is fundamental, so to speak.

Info on Australia's medicare system...

http://www.medicareaustralia.gov.au/about/index.jsp

OK, Tour de Francophiles, Friday should be one of those days that tell the story of how the tour is likely to go. It's the longest stage of the tour, and has two tough climbs. Lance Armstrong is currently 2nd , fractions of a second behind Fabian Cancellara, neither of whom have any climbing points thus far. But Alberto Contador, Lance's teammate who is in 3rd place, 19 seconds behind Lance and Cancellara, does. Notably, the 7th stage ends with an "above classification" climb. Those are always a bunch of fun to watch.

This editoral from a New Mexico newspaper is written by a doctor and supports all the arguments.

http://www.abqjournal.com/opinion/guest_columns/24222396156opinionguestcolumns06-24-09.htm

Solar....
your 3:09 post hit the nail on the head.... Jax isn't talking about healthcare which is why I won't really debate him on the subject....

so let's see.... I don't like war.... I don't want to pay for it.... living where I do I have as much chance of being killed by a terrorist as I do of being attacked by an armadillo while doing my please go away rain dance....

and I've paid for my own education with taxes many times over.... since I don't have kids.... why should I continue paying for it.... as if I or anyone else really benefits from an educated populace.... look at all those educated people who voted for Bush.... twice....

We are getting ready to put our rental property into an LLC. We've been tossing around names.
I like S&J Land and Cattle Co.

The wife is pulling for Blue Corn Investments.

Jack

Pogo,

Yes, clarity is good.

I am not as worried about the costs as others obviously are. Medicare and the VA run much more cheaply than private sector medicine. I am concerned about trying to overhaul the system on the cheap. We tried to overhaul Iraq on the cheap and it didn't turn out too well. They are not the same, of course, but I'd hate to see a pennywise - tennerfoolish approach.

Also, I hate all the baloney about 'expensive gummint programs' and "you won't get to choose your doctor."
Back in the era that republicans wistfully refer to as The Good Old Days, small town and tiny village America had a choice of Dr. Smith or nothing. Nothing was often preferable. These republican whinings and ditherings are a shoal of RED herrings.

Anyway, we may have to spend a little more up front to see large savings down calendar from improved health.

See, XR, we do agree on most of this.

Renee, LOL!! (But I-95 does intersect I-20, which is the migratory route of the Armadillo. So you're just one left turn by a confused armadillo away ...

Off on errands...have a safe day.

Hah!

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/09/technology/personaltech/09pogue.html?hp

Take that, Google.

XR, you need to talk with Congress.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/07/08/us/politics/AP-US-Health-Care-Overhaul.html

Ms Wino,

You are absolutely right. However, the credit card is preferable to the bad check. The former will get you into Bankruptcy court, whereas the latter is a crime of turpitude that will get you into prison and blight your life forever.

In this era, when foreclosures and unsold homes threaten the equity and estates of the middle class, it ought to be in the national interest to stop our broken medical financing system from putting more houses on the auction block. Therefore, I question the patriotism of all those who would impede the resolution of this rolling disaster, and I'm taking down names. ( :>D)<

Just back,

I see that I can be gone and still be on since RR and Solar seem to already know what I'm thinking......no prob guys....not presumptuous on your part at all.....:)

I just keep telling myself......respect your elders...respect your eleders.....:)

Jack

I have several LLC's. Good structure here in Texas.

WhiskeyJack LLC is cool but ATF may keep chasing you.....:)

Good post Craig, some thoughts are due later. First I thought an entertaining environmental diversion might be fun.

Also: forgive me Dark Lord, this is just a link pack with some interesting climate and energy news for the day.

http://www.rr.com/news/green/article/1501/8288744/Pickens_calls_off_massive_wind_farm_in_Texas

PB got a bit ahead of himself. Like I said before, there are lots of hidden costs to green and in this case, wind, not to mention the carbon used to produce the wind mills. And Gore predicted we could get off all oil in a decade if we built enough of these things. Really.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/jul/08/nuclear-power-obama-us

Of course Obama now needs to support the very promises made during the campaign. Perhaps next will be his commitment to clean coal or rational drilling for the oil and gas buffer we need to have to keep growth going until green becomes affordable, even for people like Pickens.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&sid=a8Nn0ucmecE0

Obama was going to try and pin China down on global , but riots have caused Hu to return home. Much of the protests are over economic distress. Hans and Uihgers are at each other’s throats. Much of it is about money. I doubt that given the debt of ours China holds, the needed GDP required to quiet protests or the likely disruption of oil flow in the year to come, China is not ready to move on global warming.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/07/al-gore-likens-global-warming-to-nazi-threat.html

Gore is amazing, isn’t he? And though the LAT mocks Fox, they refuse to comment on most stories far from the story line like these:

http://money.cnn.com/2009/05/14/magazines/fortune/globalwarming.fortune/index.htm

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Files.View&FileStore_id=83947f5d-d84a-4a84-ad5d-6e2d71db52d9

Now ain’t that a minority report?

I’m not taking sides here, but so much data has come out that is contradictory regarding human forcing. Ild like to think I’m smart enough to know the limits of what I actually know. I know sun spots started again. I know the magnetic pole is drifting and weakening. I know we just recently found the source of much of the solar radiation not attributable to our sun. And like some have said, we are affecting this planet in many ways and in many directions. Reform requires smart plans. Smart plans produce good results.

How's about S&J's Blue Corn Whiskey LLC?

intrasolar radiation, that is....

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/health-reform-battle-lines.html#comment-242336

KGC

I think attitudes may be changing, but a lot of that excess care at the end is due to relatives feeling that they have to do something. The best thing they can do is keep their aged relative out of pain and then kiss them goodbye when it's time to go.

I favor suicide for those who want it. Not my style, but the option should be there. We put our pets "to sleep" why not our parents.

Jack,

Go with the wife, she is the brains in the family anyway, no?

Judy once picked one for me. A trucking co. Called S. B. S.

Slow -But - Sure. Had a lot of good conversation about it, as you will.... the blue corn. LOL, cattle company: Can't leave the farm-can you? haha

A minority report questionning climate change by James Inhofe? Who could have ever guessed that?

Yes, and clean coal has a lot in common with cold fusion.

But I do agree that smart plans produce good results, and reform needs smart plans.

leave the farm behind that is.

Well, grass calls, I go.

Smart plans from a Congressional Bill? Not likely. What is more likely is a choice between: A) a bad plan;, B) an incremental plan; and C) No plan at all.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/health-reform-battle-lines.html#comment-242349

Ping

What proof do you have that profit spurs innovation? There is nothing in non profit that would prevent research. England and France both have extensive research activities as the shared nobel prizes of medicine indicate.

Here the drug makers are demanding 12 years of exclusivity before generics are allowed rather than 7 just so they can gouge the public with 10 + times the cost of the generics.

I'm all for any reasonable profit in most areas of endeavor, but not when you are making it off the backs of the sick and injured.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/health-reform-battle-lines.html#comment-242480

Oh AP

We should be merciful. Pay the family to dig the hole for the carcass. They can use it to pay the embalming bills.

(sarcastic)

Buy Lockheed.

F-22

http://www.wallpaperbase.com/wallpapers/military/f22raptor/f_22_raptor_4.jpg

production line will probably stay open.

Their F-35

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/AIR_F-35A_AA-1_Flight_Top_lg.jpg

is a global best seller with more than 3000 ordered and might become the all time biggest weapons program, unless you count the more than 70,000 nukes we've built and their delviery systems.

Read the report and one can see there IS a debate. Cristy is hardly a crack pot and niether is R Pike, both contributers on the IPCC.

Max,
If the UAV developmetns keep progressing those may be the last large manned fighter programs we ever have.......we'll see......

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a3wUXb42NPX0

What a shocker.....Guess this is how we'll pay for it.....

Posted by: Jamie Author Profile Page | July 8, 2009 4:37 PM

It's really a shame when people come into the er's with no information about their interests --such as as don't revive orders. It's an area where automated online medical records are especially helpful.

Welcome back Ivy, looks like you and Renee have more than just birds in common: You wrastle bears too I see. HA. stand there and fight like a bird -woman.

Renee,

I like the way that you do things, that is you get away with Rick, Rick, and enjoy other people that like to come together to have a good time. I would like something like Carol has, but only to visit, on winter months.

Same with Tony, and others, I like the way Chloe takes care of all her little kids, (the little critters) but you get away as often as you want to.......and thats cool. A nice way to live imo. No kids, how about adapting one slightly worn out Muchacho?

Solar....
hmmmm..... a worn out muchacho.... ok.... but I will not take "personal responsibility" for your constant pinching of all the womenfolk.....

oh yeah.... and you have to mix your own margaritas....

New kitten pictures up...

http://booksandmusic-patsi.blogspot.com/

Ya know pogo,

That garage I just bought would hide a large still.

Who is the ATF telling me I can't practice my cultural traditions.

Speaking of the ATF.
On the 4th I went to visit some cousins and the kids were all shooting off fire crackers. We were all talking about how much fun we had with fire crackers and I had to say that I enjoyed fire crackers a lot until I learned about dynamite.

which reminds me of another cultural tradition, anybody want to go fishing.

Jack

A farmer in the country noticed that a gentleman would fish at the lake (close to the farmer’s house) and would always leave with a stringer full of fish. The fellow had a boat but a fishing pole was not to be seen. The farmer mentioned the situation to the lake ranger. The ranger then started watching this man and all that the farmer said was true! The man would arrive at the lake in the morning and by early afternoon, he had a stringer full of fish. The ranger dressed like a fisherman one day and approached the man. They exchanged pleasantries and the stranger asked the ranger in disguise to come fish with him. They boated for 45 minutes and arrived at a secluded spot. The stranger then pulled out a stick of dynamite.
Ranger: “I’m going to have to place you under arrest--I am a Ranger and you are fishing illegally!”
The stranger calmly lit the stick of dynamite and handed it to the ranger.
Stranger: “Are you gonna talk or fish?”

http://www.clown-ministry.com/index_1.php/articles/clean_funny_jokes_talk_or_fish/#ixzz0KhsWAUaa&D

One of the most famous of the European court jesters was Nasir Ed Din. One day the king glimpsed himself and a mirror, and saddened at how old he looked, started crying. The other members of the court decided they better cry as well. When the king stopped crying, everyone else stopped crying as well, except Nasir Ed Din. When the king asked Nasir why he was still crying, he replied, "Sire, you looked at yourself in the mirror but for a moment and you cried. I have to look at you all the time."

during the reign of Queen Elizabeth, clowning in England was basically a theatrical art form. Shakespeare was the playwright for the Lord Chandler’s Men acting troupe. Of the 26 principal actors in the Lord Chandler’s Men listed in the First Folio of Shakespeare’s plays, two, William Kemp and Richard Armin, were clowns. William Kemp was the first clown to appear with the troupe. He was such an important star that he was a part owner in both the troupe and the Globe Theater. He specialized in playing stupid country bumpkin type characters (a style that would later become known as the Auguste).

Robert Armin (c.1568 - 1615) joined the company when Kemp left. He specialized in playing court jester style fools. He wrote a book on famous court jesters, one of the first histories of clowning to be published.

The style of Shakespeare’s plays changed when Armin replaced Kemp so it is known that he tailored them to the style and abilities of his clowns. Scholars believe that part of the existing scripts were actually ad libs by the clowns that were written down after they proved popular.

According to tradition, Hamlet’s order that clowns speak only what had been written down for them was in reality Shakespeare’s criticism of Kemp’s ad libbing.

http://www.clown-ministry.com/index_1.php/site/articles/history_of_clowning_from_the_ancient_pharaohs_to_the_modern_day_by_bruce_jo/#ixzz0KhuHsyS8&D

Patsi....
those kittens are toooooo cute... I really like the little torti.....
my eldest cat is a torti.... and she thinks she's the queen....

Jax... no one is talking about what you're "thinking".... we're talking about what you're posting....
Let me take your drum beating of "personal responsibility for one's choices" to a logical conclusion ( yeah... I'm playing Spock).... today's army is all "volunteer".... anyone who joins knows the danger of being sent to a war zone such as Iraq or Afghanistan.... so by your definitions why should anyone have to pay for a wounded soldier's injuries?....

And I'm not talking about the difference between a bottle of booze, a pack of cigarettes, and going to fight for this country.... I'm talking about making a choice and accepting personal responsibility for that choice.... are all choices of equal value? exactly where does one draw the line and who draws it?

I apologize in advance:

I hope he yelled fire!

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-national/20090708/US.Chocolate.Death/

http://candydishblog.com/2008/12/09/chocolate-by-the-smothers-brothers/

Sturg....
George W. Bush was a clown and he specialized in playing the President of the United States of America for 8 years.....

Wiki:
End of tradition

The tradition of court jesters came to an end in Britain when Charles I was overthrown in the Civil War. As a Puritan Christian republic, England under the Lord Protector Oliver Cromwell had no place for such fripperies as jesters. English theatre also suffered and a good many actors and entertainers relocated to Ireland where things were little better (see Irish theatre).

After the Restoration, Charles II did not reinstate the tradition of the court jester, but he did greatly patronize the theatre and proto-music hall entertainments, especially favouring the work of Thomas Killigrew. Though Killigrew was not officially a jester, Samuel Pepys in his famous diary does call Killigrew "The King's fool and jester, with the power to mock and revile even the most prominent without penalty" (12 February 1668). The last British nobles to keep jesters were the Queen Mother's family, the Bowes-Lyons.

In the 18th century, jesters had died out except in Russia, Spain and Germany. In Romania, the Hospodars kept Armenian jesters until the 19th century.

In France and Italy, travelling groups of jesters performed plays featuring stylized characters in a form of theatre called the commedia dell'arte. A version of this passed into British folk tradition in the form of a puppet show Punch and Judy. In France the tradition of the court jester ended with the French Revolution.

As late as 1968, however, the Canada Council awarded a $3,500 grant to Joachim Foikis of Vancouver "to revive the ancient and time-honoured tradition of town fool".

Renee: like this?

http://www.metermill.com/bushpics/bush-clown.jpg

Afghanistan: From where Empires go to die files. There is very little news about what is going on over there at times, and this caught my eye.

the lack of interest our world shows in dead civilians from a distant imperial war – and all because of a passage stumbled upon in a striking article by journalist Anand Gopal. In “Uprooting an Afghan Village” in the June issue of the Progressive magazine, he writes about Garloch, an Afghan village he visited in the eastern province of Laghman. After destructive American raids, Gopal tells us, many of its desperate inhabitants simply packed up and left for exile in Afghan or Pakistani refugee camps.

One early dawn in August 2008, writes Gopal, American helicopters first descended on Garloch for a six-hour raid:

“The Americans claim there were gunshots as they left. The villagers deny it. Regardless, American bombers swooped by the village just after the soldiers left and dropped a payload on one house. It belonged to Haiji Qadir, a pole-thin, wizened old man who was hosting more than forty relatives for a wedding party. The bomb split the house in two, killing sixteen, including twelve from Qadir’s family, and wounding scores more. … The malek [chief] went to the province’s governor and delivered a stern warning: protect our villagers or we will turn against the Americans.”

That passage caught my eye because, to the best of my knowledge, I’m the only person in the U.S. who has tried to keep track of the wedding parties wiped out, in whole or part, by American military action since the Bush administration invaded Afghanistan in November 2001. With Gopal’s report from Garloch, that number, by my count, has reached five (only three of which are well documented in print).

The first occurred in December of that invasion year when a B-52 and two B-1B bombers, wielding precision-guided weapons, managed, according to reports, to wipe out 110 out of 112 revelers in another small Afghan village. At least one Iraqi wedding party near the Syrian border was also eviscerated – by U.S. planes back in 2004. Soon after that slaughter, responding to media inquiries, an American general asked: “How many people go to the middle of the desert … to hold a wedding 80 miles from the nearest civilization?” Later, in what passed for an acknowledgment of the incident, another American general said: “Could there have been a celebration of some type going on? … Certainly. Bad guys have celebrations.” Case closed.

Perhaps over the course of an almost eight-year war in Afghanistan, the toll in wedding parties may seem modest: not even one a year! But before we settle for that figure, evidently so low it’s not worth a headline in this country, let’s keep in mind that there’s no reason to believe:

an Afghan wedding slaughter – the one Gopal notes, for instance, seems to have gotten no other coverage; or
* that other wedding slaughters haven’t been recorded in other languages I can’t read; or
* that, in the rural Pashtun backlands, some U.S. attacks on wedding celebrants might not have made it into news reports anywhere.

In fact, no one knows how many weddings – rare celebratory moments in an Afghan world that, for three decades, has had little to celebrate – have been taken out by U.S. planes or raids, or a combination of the two.

When we start a war.....we aught to make room for the refugees and bring tham here?

Have to go out for the evening, but I want to read more about the Charles II sub-topic when I return...

"my eldest cat is a torti.... and she thinks she's the queen...."

Yes, Renee! My VERY elderly Diva is a torti too....this little one os a pistol. She and her tabby sister are running wild, while the little tomcat is still a mama's boy. (The girls have discovered kitten chow -- and that's fine with him because he has mama to himself....heh)

Today is 07/08/09.

Hooray!

tt

http://counterterrorismblog.org/2009/07/ipt_uncovers_hate_speech_hezbo.php

I see something interesting here. It is the convergence of homophobia and Jew hating. Why Obama has such deep roots into this crowd is beyond my cognitive powers.

On one hand he has has some serious centrist Israel supporters and yet he keeps a base that were it not for their Islamic origin, seem more like Right Wingers.

And doesn't the White House understand that Hamas, the Muslim Brotherhood and Hizb'Allah are Iranian proxies?

I'll say it again...a gay platoon could spot these guys a mile away. And so could a Jew.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/health-reform-battle-lines.html#comment-242532

Patsi,

Have you become addicted yet to LOL Cats?

http://icanhascheezburger.com/

Just fire up your creativity and add captions and you have an entry to the funny furries.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/health-reform-battle-lines.html#comment-242542

Sturgeone

To this day Cirque du Solleil which originated in Canada still uses many of the classic characters within the framework of their productions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smkiSJf2cHE

Here is something I wrote for XRepublican days back, but never found the time to post it. I saw Solar’s post so maybe this could add to the “Afghanistan” discussion. Hope this isn’t too intrusive. I think XRepublican, you might find it does contain some interesting facts.

Afghanistan and proliferation

It was indeed very ironic that Carter, the post Viet Nam President, helped snare the Evil Soviets in their own fatal Viet Nam. It is true that the fiasco that followed helped to undo their communist control. It was equally true in 1979; the Soviets had never been called to fight any great war after WW2. The CIA spurred enough militancy in Afghanistan to bait the Russians in, as XRepublican mentioned. Decades prior that poorly planned affair, the Soviets had managed to get Greek communists, Latin revolutionaries, the Chinese and Viet Cong, a strange cast including the Palestinians to do their bidding and give up their lives for their “comrades”. The Red Army was largely an occupying force. And it was also a critical deterrence in their struggle with the Chinese that faced each them across their long and contested border. The Cold War was indeed friendships of necessity.

Not once when the US had a monopoly on the bomb, did we try to extort any advantage from the Russians despite Churchill’s admonition to us to “finish the job”. Instead we kept back the Soviets in Iran and the Middle East and to a great extent, Latin America. How the US preceded is ironic given that years earlier, FDR had told his greatest confidant (his long time mistress) he was planning to reorder the world with Stalin’s help. FDR passed away and so did his strange dream. Irony indeed that Truman and Eisenhower would not stand down as the Chinese and the Soviets chased after their geopolitical objectives.

The fifties became a striking struggle in the world moving from Korea to Viet Nam. There was an incredible advance of technology. In most cases, the West thwarted the Communist advances. Communists were prevented from taking Greece or Iran. They never had a chance in taking Western Europe or driving Israel from the Middle East. Their biggest problem was subduing the intense nationalism of those many nations they ruled by force.

The Democrats through JFK built an image of strength against the Communists and LBJ delivered more tonnage of conventional bombs against the communist enemy than any other President before him had dropped on anyone. The US built more than 70,000 nuclear weapons after the first one and our total mega tonnage at its height in 1960 just prior to JFK being sworn in was over 20,000 megatons including our active stockpile.

http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Usa/Weapons/Wpngall.html

Despite this capability, we could not defeat Viet Nam-like civil wars without deploying more than half a million troops and resorting to applications of force that would turn nations defended into waste lands of displaced refugees. American taxpayers resisted this cost in blood and money, especially when the conflict was in a jungle far away, in a nation that held little strategic interest and without credible evidence that alternative options were lesser choices.. Nukes were of little use to us in these smaller war conflicts. With millions of civilians in theater living in poverty, it was difficult at best to contain insurgency supplied with enough technology by our adversaries to inflict serious casualties on us. And that’s what we did in Afghanistan to the Russians, as the Soviets did fight us mano y mano in the shies over Korea and then over Viet Nam.

What happened in Afghanistan to the Soviets politically after the failure and what fallout may happen to us now should we screw up is more than ironic for both parties involved. And that’s leaving out the British irony altogether.

Sure, that the Russians are letting us supply our forces fighting the Taliban after the debacle we orchestrated for them in the 80’s. That IS ironic. Even more ironic would be the political consequence of our failure after watching the Soviets collapse.

As we contemplate reducing our nuclear arsenals, we are still faced with militants in the world driving the same regions they inhabit into dangerous chaos. The Obama administration has embraced this approach:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6638694.ece

Please note the emphasis on lasers. Despite this unconventional approach, it leads to drones and bombs, and utilizing local forces no matter how good and bad they are given the options. And also understand that Lockheed is making a ton with their proven fighter program. There is a reason why conventional weapons sell. Why would we not use our best fighter for our own air defense? A large part of conventional weapons and theory is missile defense and superior ability to destroy adversarial air defense. It is the Hallmark of the Powell Doctrine to hold the high ground and conventional forces do that.

Added to the old conflicts and enmity are new layers of radicalism and proliferation no longer containable in the polar Cold War dialectic. In that world, Russia, China and the US pulled the strongest strings. Today, China, Russia, Israel, Pakistan, France and India are all likely holders of “clean” bombs or neutron bombs.

http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl1725/17250890.htm

They have been incorporated into tactical doctrine by more than three of the nuclear powers while the US has closed the door on such weapons. Still we have some “clean” capabilities.

http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2001/10/47319

The intent of the US not using “clean” nuclear alternatives was to decrease the risk they would be used in tactical situations. Unfortunately, the logic that lead the inventor Samuel Cohen of the neutron bomb to make it, drives Pakistan, India, Israel, China, Russia (for construction purposes?) and France, is that breaking off a full scale war might require demonstration. It may require a strike on a military asset. The US does have bunker buster capabilities with nukes. It is more humane to minimize the inhumanity of such a demonstration. In close proximity to the enemy, self preservation calls for it. And when there does not exist the technical means to either take out a nuclear attack against us ABM warheads, or destroy the builders of WMD deep underground, “clean nukes” may become a viable alternative. It is rather strange, given the horror of more conventional approaches, America unilaterally withdraws from this:

http://www.janes.com/security/international_security/news/jcbw/jcbw040813_1_n.shtml

Or do we and other nations really leave this aside?

If we retreat from Afghanistan, when radical clerics in Iran build nukes and Pakistan falls to radicals, it is a short distance to the whole range nuclear possibilities. What real force are nations likely to provide in escalating violence? We are always weighing the bad with the worse. A wedding party is a sad thing to bomb, but right now Obama is unleashing numerous drones in an effort to terminate the leader Mushud, who threatened to bomb the Obama’s in their White House. We weigh loss with gain, inaction with consequence. And we often mix our measures. If we look at issues from various dialectics, we arrive at different judgments. Mush of the political conflicts stems from arguing one dialectic against another. Facts hold different meaning relative to the moral or logical structure debated. Rising CO2 has little meaning in the dialectic “clash of the civilizations”.

Politically, we seem to be experiencing debating several dialectics at once these days: the clash of civilizations, the Big Brother dialectic, and perhaps the most serious, the ecological dialectic. How we deal with these issues is the priority of our times. Still, the US suffers cyber attacks from our friends in North Korea and Iran digs deeper into their mountain sides.

In all this grey area, perhaps Hillary has found a solution to the Honduras flap. Perhaps common sense can sway the administration not to reject a new round of sanctions against Iran. Perhaps Hillary can help to sustain missile defense and fashion new regional alliance to counter balance the threats abroad. Alliances between India, China and the US, between the Central Asian countries, Russia and the US. We can seek accommodation in the Caucuses and Eastern Europe provided we are able to secure an advance in the international justice of the world community.

Although Hillary had the State Department issue a clarification of Biden’s words on Israel, she did not refute them. Nor did lame Press releases by the Egyptians and Saudis. There is still some face that is important on the Muslim Street, but here is little less than a year before the consequence of stalemate in the world will implode. And what will become of our commitment in Afghanistan and Pakistan? What lesson has been learned and what new ones are there to learn? While we an deplore innocent death and the suffering of refugees, the forces remaining intact present far greater calamity in the future. We are in Afghanistan because OBL organized his attacks on 9/11 from Afghanistan. This is the failure of both the Soviets and American indifference after the Soviets fell. The region and players are far too dangerous to be allowed to advance. There have been great intellectuals who have argued the moral and survivalist’s logic to intervention.

Will there be a new generation of destructiveness to merge altering our lives? Will we wander a meandering course further from the moral certainties of the last century, or will we seek a revival in the American Spirit? Will be turn the direction towards reformation in the Islamic world, or watch a nexus form between revolutionaries, criminals, radicals and despots? Afghanistan seems a microcosm for this, but so could Mexico in an alternative world. That is part of the irony in Afghanistan

Holy crap, Max -- start a blog!

Every time I call Republicans Fascist Nazi's I get slammed for it. Well guess what?

A Fox Host says we are losing are "Pure Society". Isn't that what Nazi Germany wanted? A pure German Master Race of superior white Germans?

Watch, listen and read about it at link below.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/08/fox-news-host-americans-k_n_228209.html

"BROWN HAIRED GUY: The problem is the Swedes have pure genes. They marry other Swedes, that's the rule. Finns marry other Finns; they have a pure society. In America we marry everybody. We will marry Italians and Irish. "

We all know that the only people who still are the Republican base are racist and bigots and more and more every day they open there mouths and prove it.

They have driven out all the real Republicans and all that is left is the cesspool of the most vile human beings in America. This is today's Republican Party whether or not you want to believe it.

Now go ahead and slam me. Have fun.

"Holy crap, Max -- start a blog!"

I'll second that, and third it, and fourth it ad infinitum.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/health-reform-battle-lines.html#comment-242575

Amen!!!

There was definitly some band width being used on that last post Max ;-)

Jack

Cajunjoe, I think that being a workaholic and/or a type A personality are also risky behaviours, aren't they? For that matter, not getting enough sleep is, too.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/health-reform-battle-lines.html#comment-242534

Sturge

My dad used to tell the same story only he put names to it and said it was true. Happened up on the Osage river.
Can't prove anything as both dad and the river are gone. The river is now at the bottom of Truman Lake.

Jack

Or maybe it was over on the Niangua river.
Whatever, they both had a lot of rough characters living on their banks.

Jack

Solar - me, too! Your 3:09 post said it all!

I know it's late, but I saw Craig Ferguson do stand up comedy on Comedy Central a few days ago. KGC, would have liked his story of his first trip to America to visit his fellow teenaged cousins. He said he couldn't believe that his cousins could afford 4 tickets to see Blue Oyster Cult in concert, but they could only afford 1 cigarette. They had to share it between each other.

Breaking News Tonight -
Giant snow balls from the Ort Cloud, have been plowing into downtown since 3:30 PM local time.

A local " solar-crack-pot" had his experiments suspended , when a " Ort Cloud " snowball landed in the middle 8 weeks of intensive work.

Engineering work was moving smoothly , until around 3:15 P.M. when the first of these " Ort Cloud" snowballs , plowed through the " Local-Solar-Crack-Pot"s " forehead.
Local reports of an air temperature of 103 and an oven running at 305 for 4 hours are not believed related to this report at this time.

Stay tuned for further updates

Oh my god ............ I just got a billion new friends.

Sad News Folks -

Bob's brain is now officially ....................... " fried baloney "

There's nothing left to even make a " Sam-mich"

It's believed he lost 5 qts. of cooking oil when the snowball from beyond Neptune pierced the local crackpots forehead.

His oven , however continues draw ever larger crowds.
The "puttying" of his forehead, and the trimming of the beard are still on tap for tpmorrow.
Consult your local church bulletin for further up-dates.

XR, I liked your post @ 4:03, also.

Patsi, I love your kittens.

After sitting thru two days of a civil service commission hearing,
I think I can best sum up my feelings byt saying that the world is tooooo much with me.

Long Hot Day in Texas -
Killer clips coming over night.

Cbob, I think you're on your own - I hope you keep having these interesting events!