Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Oh sorry, I'm more outraged about this:

"O'Reilly Fight Against Porn Involves Showing Lots Of Porn (VIDEO)"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/17/oreilly-fight-against-por_n_217167.html

He's sorry that he has to WARN the public about nasty sites like YouTube.

But he didn't warn us about him and his Andrea Mackris tapes.

Wadda sexed up moron he is.

tt

That is a good point tt.

Not to mention lawyers Craig! I think they are close to half of the Senate...

Well,
Craig is right once again , and Ping will give this an A+.

Oh, Tiptoe, good thing O'rly doesn't know about YouPorn...

XD

if obama didn't impress all the die-hard lefties around
here ' he probably did little to convince the rest of the country

Forget health care , we can't even afford to die.

More bodies go unclaimed as families can't afford funeral costs

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-unclaimed21-2009jul21,0,2534079.story

mqw

We are convinced that single payer is a great idea. We are just upset that he didn't take on the bought and paid for Congress Critters trying to steal even more benefits from the American public in favor of their well heeled contributors.

Btw - having a 1-2% tax on millionaires is not redistribution of wealth - it is rebalancing the wealth of this Nation.

Let's face - taxes are lopsided for 2 good reasons:

1. Rich people can afford it.

2. America is taking back some of the great wealth these individuals have made from the opportunities this Country has to offer.

Now you can disagree on how it is reinvested. But it is crazy to think that money shouldn't be reinvested.

And by rebalancing - I am referring to the huge spikes in salary for the top earners that has taken place since the 80's and really sky-rocketed the last 10 years.

How can someone argue that a CEO who has seen salary increases of 5x or 10x over the last decade - shouldn't kick in an extra 1-2% per year to help out the teacher, police officer, or auto-line worker still trying to raise a family for under $50-100K per year...

You're damn right the rich - who have profited greatly in recent times (and I was in NYC at the beginning of 2000 and saw it first-hand) - should give up the Bush tax breaks (tax breaks that the Republicans - not the rich - pushed for) - in order to reinvest in education, healthcare and defense.

Thought for the day :
" Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there. "

1914 Austria-Hungary issues ultimatum to Serbia leading to WW I

well 1 or 2 percent certainly doesn't sound like much
when you state like that'' no problem' but add that to
the 50 or 55 percent already presently being paid '
it starts to add up''
the problem has never been that americans don't pay
enough taxes ' its that the government spends to much'
thats all levels federal' state'' local''
i guarentee if we gave everything we made they would still have a deficit and be asking for more'

OK - I agree that the President wasn't too convincing tonite. I suspect he is still keeping his options open - which leads to vague and open-ended answers. But I think he would have been better to nail down a few points of broad consensus.

So maybe we should just write our own healthcare bill on Trail mix. (As long as max doesn't pitch in too much - we can probably keep it under 1,000 pgs ; )

The things I see as clear are:

1. Increase technology.

I am all for getting medical records computerized. As someone who moves around a bit - everytime I see a new doctor have I trouble remember shots, tests, etc. That could all be cleared up before I even arrive at the office.

(I am sure there are tons of other savings on actual procedures from advances in technology. The most successful hospitals could probably put together a list of some of the best - and the govt could write legislation that would subsize and encourage investments in such technology.)

And better records means less mistakes and better care.

2. Decrease price of drugs.

There are plenty of great medications out there (even though I am pretty passionate about the waste involved in over-prescription). But by decreasing costs - but increasing access to the best meds - big pharma doesn't even really have to take a hit on their bottom line.

3. Public insurance.

By cutting profit margins, corner offices and private jets - the govt could provide a good plan at a lower cost than the private insurance companies.

Companies who are constantly "rationing care" - if not simply kicking people off the plan. Insurance companies also drive up costs because doctors and hospitals overcharge based on the knowledge that insurance companies will only pay a portion of the costs. This screws people who have no insurance and no insurance company lawyers to cut down the amount paid.

How do we pay for it?

1-2% tax increase on people making over a million per year.

And we cut down some of the spending we devoted to armed conflict during the Bush years. That was - and still is - an amount of money that exceeds the amount that is projected for healthcare reform for the next 10 years.

And Obama should also talking about increasing jobs for medical professionals. More people getting care means we will need more caregivers. Young people should be encouraged with scholarships - and Obama should really take this opportunity to emphasize public service - and the grassroots effort that was such a big part of his campaign.

mqw

The point is that many of those people saw huge increases as the economy boomed. Other people did not.

So increasing taxes on people who saw increased salaries - to provide benefits for people's salaries that stayed the same or increased at a lower rate - makes sense.

And returning the rates to the Clinton years - is not socialism. Seems to me the rich people did just fine then too.

mqw

But I certainly have no problem with you complaining how it is spent.

warren
that was a simple one page plan
missing about thousand more pages of legalese
and doublespeak that you have to read the same
sentence three times before you can figure out what
the hell they'er really saying

Julia, somehow I suspect that O'Really knows about that and ALL the other, related sites.

He was playing dumb. Playing?

tt

I'm a simple man.

i'm not worried about millionaires ' they're millionaires they'll be ok
more concerned about myself '' already paying over
50 percent if you add everything together
i have the feeling i will be reclassified as rich shortly

Jolly Good Show, old chap!

http://www.sfgate.com/blogs/images/sfgate/matierandross/2009/07/17/charles_t.jpg

Good night everyone.

And if you will shortly be reclassified as rich mqw - you should sleep well.

Greetings from the beach! I am wandering aimlessly around the country, but I finally buckled and got a hotel. I am not going to log-off my openid account on this hotel computer, so some crazy drunk may get a hold of my persona! So if a guy with my name starts grinding on you and asks if you girls come here often, it's not me.

tiptoe at the top of the thread : "Oh sorry, I'm more outraged about this:

"O'Reilly Fight Against Porn Involves Showing Lots Of Porn (VIDEO)" "

Maybe someday, a lightbulb will go on in Orally's head (ooo, nice pair of puns on that sentence) and he'll begin to notice that the company he works for, newsCrap, is the biggest distributor of porn on the planet & thus the biggest pimp. Where the hell does orally think murdoch gets all the money to fund his global, 24/7 propaganda mill ? murdoch gets his $$ by renting and selling video records of prostituted young people at work. He certainly could never build an Empire selling the mindless yappings of such ugly fogcurs as Orally and the rest of faux news neoconmen.

Moral outrage, my foot. Orally makes his money off of the prostitutes' bodies. With this latest stunt, he's just trying to spike his ratings.

Welcome to the trail, Mr bloggington !

Are you by any chance related to another lurker at the threshhold, dirk bloggington ? He used to post here fairly frequently. I believe he was a big fan of that adumbracious anarchist, dr. ron paul.

Btw, congrats on acquiring your hotel. Being an hotelier is an excellent way of entering the illegal alien exploitation business, in case you ever get the urge to to that.

And, if the hotel is upscale, it gives you opportunities to meet john ensign, marsh sanford, and company, and to see how they spend their parents' retirement savings.

Just your luck that I'm the guy on the keyboard. Some lout down the street awakened me from a sound sleep through his insistent horn-honking. Otherwise you might have shown up to no greeting whatsoever.

Please, tell us what hair-raising adventures you have been engaged in since you left Flit Elfia or wherever you hail from. Posterity wants to know and hangs upon your every deathless word.

Did you hear mqw complain that he will soon be rich ?

republicans have the strangest anxieties.

Arthritis woke me up again...and have perused all the posts from my bedtime on....what a dismal "press conference." I think Obama is so used to being able to sway people that he thought all he had to do was walk onstage. But when even Chris "thrill-up-the-leg" Matthews was unimpressed....well, you got troubles.

I'm afraid to even check my email. The wing nuts will be out.

Tiptoe -- I'm sure you went to bed and may miss this. But I've been so bent out of shape over those "peep hole" photos! The NY Post published a bunch of the photos the other day -- it's as if they want to make SURE people saw them. And Bill O'Reilly has proven himself a pornographer-wannabe over and over.

Flatus -- I think you're wrong about the injuried from this war being less. The on-field care was good enough to keep many alive who would have been war dead. The cost of these injuries is going to be huge -- not to mention mental health issues.

x
as long as you are name dropping don't
forget the pride of the democratic party
spitzer'' burris ' blagovich' edwards

just to clarify i will not soon be rich'' obama will have to
redefine rich in order to make up revenue shortfalls ''
so although my salary will not go up ' the goalpost
for rich will be lowered to my level''
so that way they can take more of my money and tell me how well off i am''' lucky me

obama could have just got up there and sang ''somewhere over the rainbow ''
would have been more informative ' believable and
maybe a little entertaining

The first paragraph of Gail Collins's op/ed is PRICELESS!

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/23/opinion/23collins.html?ref=opinion

from a loyal committed die hard hillary supporter
to all obama true believers'' i just got to say it''
'''we told you so''
sorry about that ''couldn't help myself

there is a line in craig c's post a few days ago about
a entirely different subject that could be aptly applied to the obama administration
they do get validation from their insulated world of the like-minded'''

OK folkes,

I watched Obama last night and I don't have all that cable to splain to me what he said or meant. I had America's got Talent that follows, and they do have some talent.

I'm not sure whether it was because I was tired from work and my ADD was in full force but I didn't feel like I really knew any more after watching. It's kind of like he was saying trust me, I'll do it right. I'm not ready to do that just yet.

How did they pick those few reporters Obama called on, is there a lottery and did one guy go twice? I was almost expecting Obama's version of that male prostitute to get up and ask a question, ya know, the one who George had out there to ask softball questions.

Warren, you got a good start on your plan. I can follow it. If the government could prove to me they could just fix a few of the problems that are causing so much of the fraud and waste in health care, I might have a little more confidence in them. Just prove to me they can do something right! That's what I meant when I suggested earlier that they take baby steps.

There are a lot of little questions that people who have had to use their insurance recently, and found out just how crappy it really is, have. Like, will all providers have to accept what the insurance is willing to pay so most of it doesn't come out of our pockets?

When you are a victim of an unfortunate accident you can't shop around to find out which ambulance, anesthesia group, radiology group, etc will take your crappy insurance. They just send you their bill later saying sorry, we don't take that crap, your stuck with the bill.

Slick Barack? not as catchy as Slick Willie....

Did you catch the simple change - now he calls it Healthcare Insurance Reform?

I Tivo'd the speach and went back to try and understand...

Craig A++ again...
Barack D-

The Anecdotal stories used by the Obama gang are a dis service - They are using these sad but true stories trying to paint the overall picture that simply is not true.

America has the best Healthcare - Barack did slip a few times and give examples of the better outcomes.

Most Americans are happy with there Healthcare coverage and do not want it changed

Out of pocket - is up from the 1990's BUT the % the avg person pays is much less of their total income and as much as half the out of pocket from 30 years ago.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/filibustererinchief.html#comment-245906

warren, now if we could only get the congress critters to write a bill that's as understandable as yours. i agree with mqw and ct, you've made a good start on the new trailmix healthcare insurance reform act.

ping, the new name reflects where and at whose feet lies the problem of this whole scam on the public (compared to the healthcare provided by other countries).

Craig - Is CQ going to ask Mayo Clinic if they do agree with Barack and his Marketing use of their name on his plan? Has he not read the open letter from the Mayo that is not an endorsement? Guess he only reads blog postings?

Hey maybe a White House staffer is reading this blog?

Hey Mr President - You came halfway clean when you called it Healthcare Insurance Reform cause it sure aint Quality Healthcare Reform you or this Government has in process !!!

This is just more Social engineering and redistribution.

ping...

"Most Americans are happy with there Healthcare coverage and do not want it changed".

I'm insured at my job, however I haven't had a raise in two years. All my expenses have gone up over that same period, including my co-pay and out of pocket expenses on my health care.

Right now if I get sick and need surgery my out of pocket and co-pays would bankrupt me like it would most Americans that are lucky to have insurance. That is except those who do make over a half a million a year.

Yeah, the United States has the best Health Care in the World as long as you have the money to afford it.

perhaps, a new type of interstate commerce commission (established to regulate out of control railroad company greed and gridlock) should be threatened or pursued to rein in the current tyrants.

And for those who were speaking about O'Reilly.....

"Rep. Massa demands Fox News fire O'Reilly and Peters for comments about captured soldier"

http://mediamatters.org/blog/200907220053

True lowlifes abound at Faux News.

Another link from Rep. Massa's web page on the firing of O'Reilly and Peters.

http://massa.house.gov/index.cfm?sectionid=24§iontree=23,24&itemid=360

Why does the White House Press Corps let him get away with filibustering? (exception-Helen) Are they starstruck--afraid they won't get called on next time-or perhaps not get an invitation to the next White House off the record private bash (4th of July barbecue). It is the responsibility of the press to hold the president's feet to the fire--problem is--who will hold the press's feet to the fire?

I agree with mqw's 5:10 post--as a Hillary supporter--
"we told you so."

yup.... the "press conference" was a skunker!

I'm done with these endlesstalkingsayingnothingwithtoofewquestions conferences..... Jamie had the right idea.... grab the remote and change the channel to watch something that is interesting....

ubns..... methinks the press corps is being waaaaaay toooooo polite....
they need to start jumping up on their feet and asking hard questions....
otherwise Obama has made them irrelevant...

One other observation--the shortest answer he gave went ot the reporter who dared to question his promise of "transparency"--said he'll get back to her on that---yeah,right! She'll never be called on again.

AP - Sorry to hear that your program is not so good, I thought that the County and Gov program options provided outstanding coverage - I have many family members that are educators and the selection options they have are really good.

ping...

When I had hernia surgery it cost me over $3,000 dollars out of pocket and I would guess that that type of surgery is more than likely considered minor.

My sister who died of cancer a year ago last December had huge bills even with insurance from her company. She had close to nineteen years with them and she ended up with over a thousand dollars a month out of pocket for prescription drugs.

And that did not include her co-pay on her hospital bills. So if you can afford to get sick and have the money to pay for all the treatments and medicines you would need then yes, America has the best Health Care that money can buy.

Otherwise tough Sh*t buddy go straight to the poor house or debtors prison.

Here is the application of a Mensa explanation of the Obama and this governments current attempt at Healthcare reform.. Push Push Push -

Dopeler Effect: The tendency of stupid ideas to seem smarter when they come at you rapidly

"This must be what happens when senators become presidents. They are well schooled in the art of the filibuster."

I don't know if that is to what I would attribute his verbacious self . He didn't spend any time in the Senate. It has always seemed to me that he just likes hear himself speak.

Checked in last night and left after reading Craig's request. I figured I didn't have anything nice to say, so I left to enjoy my new hammock. Just caught up on the thread and Craig was a hoot. I should have stuck around.

"I think Obama is so used to being able to sway people that he thought all he had to do was walk onstage. But when even Chris "thrill-up-the-leg" Matthews was unimpressed....well, you got troubles."

Patsi
I think you've got it!! Wow Tweety wasn't thrilled and neither was I..I do feel the President is trying hard to get a healthcare bill passed but sadly he's failing because he refuses to go after the Insurance companies and end there reign of terror..I remember with my mom how you wait for there approval on what chemo your allowed to have and then after you get the chemo they refuse to pay on the BS grounds its not cancer coded properly..When asked what is the proper cancer code there answer is we can't give it to you by law..I couldn't make this shit up...

Old sea.....what hammock did you decide upon?

I have a little story to tell, I'll try to make it as brief as possible. My husband, Mr. Tylenol, woke up two weeks ago with his left leg shooting flames of pain to his brain. He had an arterial bypass (abdomen and left leg) operation in December. The bypass blocked and the blood flow and oxygen was blocked at his abdomen, thus starving the leg. Off we went to the hospital, where he was admitted almost upon arrival, and put on the 'emergency' surgery list. Emergencies are prioritized and although my husband's problem was indeed serious, the same group of surgeons and techs also work on quintuple heart bypasses and transplants. Every day my hubby was on that list, and every day it got put off to the next day (although, i gotta tell ya, those painkillers were amazing. I woulda given MY left leg for a shot of that morphine last week!) Flash forward to Saturday (a little more than a week after we arrived). He goes to surgery and I'm thinking we're going to begin the long process of therapy again starting Sunday. Sunday night, his right leg, (the 'good' leg) starts to ache, and by midnight it was clear that there was a clot in THAT leg. More pain meds. Another angiogram to determine where the block is. Again, on the emergency list. We're told it will be Friday.

All this to tell you that had this happened in the US, we would be WIPED OUT financially. We would not be able to get coverage because, of course, this is a pre-existing condition. He has now been there two weeks. Can you imagine the bill with which we would be presented???

Every republican I,ve ever heard has always complained, indeed incited panic over, the single payer system. Well, I'm here to tell ya, the single payer system is the way to go. We talked in two weeks ago, carrying only his government-issued health card, the care has been phenominal, and although this has been stressful beyond all measure, he IS indeed in good hands. DONT let any politician, particularly those who are in the insurance industry deep pockets, tell you that single payer OR a public option won't work. They are lying through their full-dental-coverage teeth!!

I got the original cotton one, large. Splurged and got the pillow too. I guess its great if you want to sit up and read. Usually I sprawl and my head isn't anywheres near it though, the pillow is very short, more like a neck roll. I am so happy Sturge that I bought myself one. Don't know how things are down there, but they aren't very good here, so I'm not going out at night and spending any money. Got the packy across the st. where I can buy a bottle of wine for the cost of one glass out and my hammock. I'm all set.

Sturge- I shouldn't say all set. I like to go out at night, check out the tourists, maybe bring a victim back to my porch, hang out on the hammock with him, have a laugh. Guess it's not in the cards this year, too dog tired to walk up the st. and no money to spend once I get there. The Vineyard is a safer place this year. wink.

"DONT let any politician, particularly those who are in the insurance industry deep pockets, tell you that single payer OR a public option won't work. They are lying through their full-dental-coverage teeth!!"

ty, why o why can't we get stories like yours reported by the media? is it because msm is too lazy or too financially dependent on certain corps or think they'll lose ratings if they cover serious subjects?
or all the above?

Tylenol...thank you for sharing...one of the most annoying commercials against 'government in health care' (WTF does that mean, anyway?) starts with a canadian women who would have died if she waited for health care in Canada -- she was able to come to the US and get the best treatment in the world for her cancer. I say, to hell with her! She just bumped some poor American out of the line for treatment and she has the money to buy the best health care because she is not bankrupted by her own health care in her own country! Keep these type of people out of our health care system or better yet, out of our country! Ridiculous to put forth such a story. : )

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/filibustererinchief.html#comment-245957

sea, craig's gentle plea got me to thinking too. perhaps we tmrs should spruce up our act here now that his boss has a new boss that might be doing initial inventory on the new acquisition. maybe put on a good show for our gracious host with erudite, eclectic elucidating.

iow, cain't be that hard folks if'n we'uns keep outta those old ruts and see to the wagon not boggin down ever so offen chasin a greased pig round the yard.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/filibustererinchief.html#comment-245930

I don't know why anyone would be surprised. He's doing the exact same thing he did during the election. What we saw is what we got.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/filibustererinchief.html#comment-245944 "said he'll get back to her on that--"

And I'm sure he will, right after he memorizes what someone tells him what the answer is.

"obama could have just got up there and sang ''somewhere over the rainbow'
would have been more informative ' believable"

mqw, You can say that again. (see Solar, I say it a lot too)

"perhaps we tmrs should spruce up our act here now that his boss has a new boss"

Pat, I can't imagine that they didn't check this place out 'before' they bought cq. I'd say we're in like flint 'or' it's too late, and changes are in the works.

tylenol....
I'm sorry about Mr. T and I hope he gets better soon.....

I do have to admit that 2 week delay is a bit discomforting. Here in the US he'd have probably had the surgery the day after being admitted to the hospital.

OSH.... sorry to hear that travel to the Vineyard is down. Hopefully you'll make some money when Obama vacations there at the end of next month. And I agree with you.... Obama didn't spend enough time in the Senate to develop "SenateSpeak". I think his lack of governmental experience is starting to show.

"I have many family members that are educators and the selection options they have are really good."

Ping, Ping, Ping....where do I start. Have those people had to really USE that insurance? I mean on a big level?

Now, depending on the sort of job protection they have, maybe those education jobs are safe...but I know of quite a few situations where having to use the insurance ended up costing people their jobs.

Just one: a woman I know in her late 50s. Had a good solid job with a non profit...in the accounts division. She was in a very safe, non-controversial type position where she had an expertise few others had. But then she got very sick and was put into intensive care. She got a staph infection IN THE HOPITAL that nearly killed her and she ended up there for well over a month.

That infection came back about six months later and she was hospitalized for a long time. Insurance disputes all the way along -- and keep in mind -- this infection came from her hospital stay in the first place! Lost her job and insurance, and couldn't get any again.

(The non-profit "said" she was just laid off...but they had to move heaven and hell to replace her and an inside source there told me that they were having trouble with her insurance issues.)

She ended up having to go on disability and live with her 80 year old mother in another state. There was no place for her to turn.

Ping -- you love capitalism...what did the country lose in this situation? A tax-paying citizen. What did it gain? Yet another person on disability and Medicaid.

Hey Champ, Let us know how your trip is going. What beach?
................

It's Health Insurance, Not Health Care, For Obama
"Instead of "health care reform," President Obama made it clear he is really calling for "health insurance reform" at his primetime news conference Wednesday evening.

He used the phrase five times in his opening statement.

"Even as we rescue this economy from a full-blown crisis, we must rebuild it stronger than before. And health insurance reform is central to that effort," he said." http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/07/22/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry5181499.shtml?tag=cbsContent;cbsCarousel

"Here is the application of a Mensa explanation "

ROFL, Ping -- my ex is in that little club...he asked me why I didn't sign up and I said "I thought you said the people were annoying?" He said "they ARE!" I told him I'd sooner join a biker gang.

Ty -- really, really sorry to hear about your husband. I do have another anecdote to relate. When my son played high school football he was covered by two policies -- a general one, plus an additional one we bought through the school strictly for any injuries. He was on the gurney waiting to go into surgery when they pulled him outm of line and called me to the hospital office. It seems that when I wrote down the names of the two insurers, I wrote down the school insurance first -- which was a supplimental. They COULD not understand that he was 100% covered with the two together -- the surgery was delayed two hours while he freaked out on a table in the hall.

Ping

Would you care to provide back up for your opinion?

Just here on the board we already know of several getting screwed by the system in some fashion and who know if they actually get seriously ill, they can kiss the family assets goodbye.

In a time of massive layoffs and downgrading of jobs, the fear is even worse than it was.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/filibustererinchief.html#comment-245906

Warren,

Goog basic plan. That public insurance must be national not divided up into groups. If you are alive in the US, you can buy into the single plan.

Set up regional clinics in all rural areas staffed by NPs (Gotta keep Carol and her ilk employed), on computer with the nearest major hospital but providing basic well care, lab work, and pharmacy services as well as follow up to keep down long trips and hospital stays.

CNN just put up a logo saying "No easy answers" Seems to me we are doing just fine so far.

"Set up regional clinics in all rural areas staffed by NPs (Gotta keep Carol and her ilk employed), on computer with the nearest major hospital but providing basic well care, lab work, and pharmacy services as well as follow up to keep down long trips and hospital stays."

That seems so sensible that I'm sure Republicans would sneer at the idea.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/filibustererinchief.html#comment-245946

Ping

One of the major problems with the system is that it is so divided up and arbitrary. If you are a small business, in most places you are insured as if you were less than 50 people not as if you were every single person in a state working for a small business. The pools of insured are purposely kept as small as possible to keep up insurance company profits.

Even the largest pools tend to be state by state not national in scope.

On top of that costs are highly varied depending on access with many states having only one or two insurance company options within a state. In the center of the state, rural area, poverty centers etc, the only care available may be at a hospital which is why 50% of hospitals are on shaky ground financially or already broke. They were never meant to be the family doctor.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/filibustererinchief.html#comment-245953

He is your typical professor. Stand in front of the class and explain everything in detail to a quiet group ... He is giving "complete" answers on how the watch is built when all anyone wants is the time of day.

gop message: No.....it's ours......and you can't have it.

just like in the abortion debate.......when their child must have an abortion (as decided upon by the titular heads of the family) they will find a good doctor and she will have one........but make it available to the public? "No......it's ours.......and you can't have it."

it just wouldn't look good.

Jamie:

I agree wholeheartedly on increasing the use of NP's.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/filibustererinchief.html#comment-245962

Tylenol

Sorry to hear about the husband and glad to hear that he is at least on the mend. This is the reason I sometimes post info on my blog buddy Claire in Britain. Her mother has had so much work done on her leg that she refers to her as "The Mumborg". It has involved multiple surgeries, infections, long hospital stays, at home visits, rehabilitation after each surgery. You name it, this poor woman has been through it. They keep up spirits by publishing Claire's wacky cartoons. Fortunately, this is in Britain so even with the difficulties and strees the family isn't being devastated financially as well.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/filibustererinchief.html#comment-245963

OSH

With a very long straw into the wine bottle, you might need to move for hours at a time.

No easy answers... What BS!!

Listen - I know we are dealing with a complex problem. But there is no reason that the bill has to be over 1,000 pages. Any bill that massive is going to be a bitch to understand and implement.

Easy answers to complex problems can be given by people that understand the problems.

Often, when someone gives a long confusing answer to a question - it is because they either don't understand the problem - or because they attempting to avoid answering the question.

"He is your typical professor. Stand in front of the class and explain everything in detail to a quiet group ... "

I agree -- but think there's an additional element. Shouldn't even get into it because I've made a serious effort to let bygones be bygones re: the primary. BUT, Obama seems to me to be one who likes very much being the most popular guy in class. He has perfected coolness and likability, and he hates being challenged on his wonderfulness. When it does happen, like many of those guys, he is disdainful of others, dismissive. I saw that tendency in the primaries, and wondered if he'd be different once elected.

Here's the last 30 second piece of bull crap being produced by those bought and sold by the insurance companies

http://www.conservativesforpatientsrights.com/

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/filibustererinchief.html#comment-245973

Patsi,

This brings up a situation that more people should consider. If you are going to have an operation no matter how minor, speak to your doctor about receiving a full spectrum antibiotic the night before the surgery (no closer than one hour prior to the knife opening anything). This even applies to dental surgery.

Some of these MIRSA infections are a major problem and they can be present in any medical facility no matter how clean. By having a preventive antibiotic in your system, it will cut down your risk of contracting it.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/11/061120182220.htm

I think you are right on, Jamie. That one hospital stay changed my friend's entire life -- no job, no house, zip.

Saw a great comment about that creep Bill Kristol:

"How many died on 911.
How many have died and gone bankrupt from no healthcare?
It seems to me that Bill Kristols "Kill Healthcare" amounts to treason."

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/filibustererinchief.html#comment-245985

Warren,

I was talking to my son last night and probably should have made clear when raving about my medical care the other day, I rarely actually have a real doctor's visit. Marthe Buntzen is my NP and she's wonderful. There are physicians that make the rounds of the four clinics, but the screening and follow up is done by other staff and Marthe actually provides the majority of the actual medical care for the Eastside clinic and she has a staff of PAs and RNs under her to handle take ins and screening.

I actually trust her more than the two clinic doctors. :-) That woman isn't going to miss anything.

Looking over this thread, I wonder if we shouldn't just invite the Congress Critters to stop by to solve all their problems. :-)

I think that getting anything passed...is way too complicated now: Just like the tax codes, It is very hard to read....very hard to understand, for the general public. They get confused as to what the original issues are with any particular bill.....this will confuse it even more...if they allow these religious fanatics to have their way

If we had a flat sales,,,and a flat income tax...I keep thinking that it would resolve so many problems....they could not attach so much bs to all the bills?

A Democratic congressman from Michigan says he has the votes to stop the health care overhaul bill in its tracks if House leaders don't give him a chance to win adoption of an amendment that would exclude abortion coverage from the scope of a government-backed health insurance program.

Rep. Bart Stupak said he and dozens of other Democrats are prepared to vote against the rule governing debate on the health care bill if it precludes them from offering the abortion amendment -- a warning that goes a step further than Stupak's past allusions to the breadth of concern over the issue within the Democratic caucus.

"If we don't get a shot, then we can take down the rule," said Stupak, who wrote a letter to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., along with 18 fellow Democrats requesting that a health care bill not allow for publicly funded abortions.

That was from CQ's ...Notepad's, Jonathan Allen

Little Ms.......You can say that again....that little phrase is taken...can I make a suggestion on cpl that you can use?.......just in case you say no...here try one of these.

Yes SIR,,,no SIR.....that should take care of it all.

I mentioned The Mumborg up thread. There is a bad news bulletin for another surgery:

"The major major operation is scheduled for a week on Friday, with removal of everything bone and metal wise from the knee and up, to the hip area. That area will then be left 'floppy' i.e. no bones, till it is 100% infection free. Then they will see about reconstructing the leg, if that fails then the leg will have to go."

Patsi....
I feel the same way about letting bygones be bygones....
but I couldn't help but think while I was watching the end of that presser last night these thoughts..... "you made a brushing off your shoulder gesture during the primaries as if to say you were brushing off Hillary..... but don't think you can brush off the entire American electorate.... it won't wash".....

I read Jim Hightower's current newsletter with my breakfast this morning. He basically said that Obama has no balls when it comes to regulating Wall Street...
the progressives are really fuming.

If you missed this story on CNN, it is well worth reading: Double amputee starts foundation to help pay for prosthetics for children that their insurance wouldn't cover

http://www.jordanthomasfoundation.org/

More of the BEST HEALTHCARE IN THE WORLD according to the Republicans.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/filibustererinchief.html#comment-245998
I choose NOOOOO (yes, I am yelling and you can forget about the Sir!).
Little Ms? You're real lucky I'm in a good mood.

New online issue from the new bosses:

http://ow.ly/i08N

There is a good article from the above about the deficit's effect on health care proposals.

Chloe

I took a chance you being in a good mood.....you are a great sport.. I just had Patsi's french toast with peanut butter ...no jelly... a little honey instead....a spoon full of raisins,,,and one third of a banana ...I guess that put me in a careless mood...will go and work it off tho.

Smoking gun full report on Gates arrest

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0723092gates1.html

Sounds like some "stupidity" on all sides. Everyone was violating the two basic laws that will keep you out of trouble:

Thou shalt not offend
Thou shalt not be too easily offended

Journalist deaths rise in media 'bloodbath'
AFP
Published: Thursday July 23, 2009

Fifty-nine journalists have been killed around the world so far this year, in an alarming rise from 2008 that has become a "bloodbath" of the media, a watchdog said Thursday. Statistics for where they come from....here

http://www.afp.com/english/home/

Here is the rest of that story..... might have to subscribe to AFP in order to get in.

ursday.

The Press Emblem Campaign (PEC) said 53 journalists were killed in the first six months, up from 45 in the first half of last year, but highlighted another six killings in July including Russian journalist and rights activist Natalya Estemirova who was murdered on July 15.

Mexico leads the media blackspots with seven journalist killings this year, according to the PEC.

It said there were six in Pakistan, five each in Iraq, the Philippines, Russia and Somalia, four in Gaza and Honduras, three in Colombia, two each in Afghanistan, Guatemala, Nepal, Sri Lanka and Venezuela and one in India, Indonesia, Kenya, Kyrgyzstan, and Madagascar.

The PEC called on all UN states, international organizations and non-government organisations to take action "to stop this bloodbath against journalists".

PEC secretary general Blaise Lempen said the increase in deaths this year reflects the conflicts in Gaza, Somalia, Pakistan and Sri Lanka.

But he added that in places like Mexico, the Philippines and Russia there is no conflict but "violence against journalists became an endemic feature."

PEC president Hedayat Abdel Nabi said the high number of killings "reflects negatively on objective reporting and kills the chances of unveiling the truth to the world."

Abdel Nabi said the UN Human Rights Council was "impotent" in protecting journalists.

The PEC expressed concern about election unrest in Iran where at least 40 journalists were arrested during disturbances after the disputed presidential vote.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/filibustererinchief.html#comment-246010

I wonder if this Cambridge cop is related to OSH?

Oh my bad, the cops name is Crowley.

Yeah, but I heard the cop goes by the name of Rez on the net. :)

lol@ Patsi

When Gates stepped outside he made his big mistake. I thought that Crimson bunch knew better.

Rez,

R U trying to get in trouble with the women folk around here?...not hard to do ....im in their dog hse all of the time! LOL...but thats were the fun is.

Just opened up my mail....I have a niece that is married to a guy that is in the Navy. They were in Hawaii for a cpl of years...They are now in Homestead FL. A post card with a picture that reads.." Tiny hands and tiny feet...someone new for you to meet!

I have a new grand nephew.....get ready for this...his name is Michael Kamakanackeakua......how great is that huh! The next time I see him ..Il have to be nice to him...my niece told me that he was a little afraid of me...she told him that I was her fav..and gentle...but don't piss him off...she is a kidder like I am..I have to practice how to say that last name. HA!

I love him to death already...he has his fathers looks..his eyes are sorta ..a little oriental. What a great day!

Solar....
who you trying to bullshit....
everyone knows there's no "c" in the Hawaiian alphabet.... :0)

POLITICO Breaking News:
-----------------------------------------------------

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid says the Senate will not attempt to pass sweeping health care reform legislation before its August recess.



For more information... http://www.politico.com

Renee,

You don't need that :0) with me.....wees family...don't yell at me MAW....it was Chloe's fault...whatever it-is-it is Chloe's fault.

You know something ...you made me look again at this post card....that does look like a Q instead of a c...how the hell did you know that????...doesn't change anything....I still can't say it...

KT,

Obama said that he already found 2/3 rds of the needed for H. C: If he and the Dems, had half of the balls that the R's have when they pass tax cuts....we would already have single payer....imo..but they are so scarred of what the R's are saying that .....they actually give them power...where they have none....just sayin...

Any Desert Rose Band fans here?

Fair's song of the day:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyPJz5KwqtY

needed money that is....

Graveyard of sunken Roman ships found
Archaeologists using sonar scan five pristine ancient Roman shipwrecks

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32103780/

A system that can deliver power to devices without the need for wires has been shown off at a hi-tech conference.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8165928.stm

New Mozart piano music discovered

Mozart left more than 600 pieces of music before his death at 35

Two piano pieces have been identified as the work of Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, experts in the Austrian city of Salzburg say.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/arts_and_culture/8165645.stm

afternoon.

OK, Max, I went back and read yesterday's response about the F22. I'm not discussing it with you any longer . I read your links - what few you provide other than what you put up from your BBFF - and comment when appropriate. You are just as adept as ignoring links I post as I am those you post. IGAF. The Soviet jet you mention (I assume you meant the Sukhoi PAKFA) was built in response to the F22 and F35, and from what I see, it may have equal if not greater capabilities and is being built at about half the price of the F22. You have your opinion about the Raptor and how many the AF needs- fine, enjoy it, (and the number the AF needs is the only issue - we currently have 187 F22s to about 0 of the Sukhois). But if the AF really felt it needed the additional planes, Schwartz and Donley would be on the hill jumping stiff legged about it. And Murtha may bemoan its passing, but McCain doesn't. BFD. Neither of them runs the defense department or have been in the service recently enough to have an informed opinion about the needs of the Defense Department beyond what Gates and the defense lobbyists tell them, and as for Murtha, gee, who could have guessed he would support funding a weapons system? Man, that came from left field. As for keeping the production lines operational - exactly how do you do that without actually producing something on them - like, say, the F22? I have no idea what will happen to those production lines, You'll get the last word on this topic - so enjoy yourself at my expense.

Sorry to pop in so briefly, but I gotta get some work done. later.

I knew that it was dumb...as soon as he said it...G will-will talk about it...and all of the R's all the way thru- Sunday. U would think that they are too smart to give the opposing party new ammo....I swear they must do it on purpose...just to not talk about the subject at hand.....National Health Care for all of us!!!
comcast.net News

Obama 'stupidly' comment disappoints Mass. cop

NATICK, Mass. — A white police sergeant who arrested renowned black scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr. said Thursday he's disappointed President Barack Obama said officers acted "stupidly," despite acknowledging he didn't know all the facts.

Sgt. James Crowley responded to Gates' home near Harvard University last week to investigate a report of a burglary and demanded Gates show him identification. Police say Gates at first refused and accused the officer of racism.

Commentary on the Press Corps: "These Guys, and Women, are Not Journalists. They're Enablers"

http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/politics/commentary_on_the_press_corps_these_guys_and_women_are_not_journalists_theyre_enablers_122423.asp

Oh what nonsense! It was stupidity and it is even more stupidity that the stupid comment has become the major news from the press conference.

Just like the uproar when Lindsey Graham said the word "ass" during the confirmation.

God forbid our politicians talk like normal freaking people...

America can be so uptight.

Why tax the rich?

"T.R. Knight, who announced he was leaving Grey's Anatomy in June, said he was at peace with his decision and said he hopes fans don't get the wrong idea about why he walked away from the show - and a $14 million contract."

http://tv.yahoo.com/news/article/tv.accesshollywood.com/tr-knight-real-reason-he-left-greys-anatomy-20090723

$14M people!!!! And the guy is no Marlon Brando. Yet there are still working class people out there paroting the Fox mantra that taxing the rich is punishing success.

Go fly a kite! (to put it in PC terms....)

Warren

I agree with you...but why was it brought up, in the first place? Aren't there more imposing things....like there have been an awful lot of soldeirs dying as of late. I with Renee I won't be tuning in...wasting my time when he has a news conference. The press corps. better wake up to the fact that they are to ask important question, and report the important news not all of this tabloid junk.

You would think that they would also be concerned with the amount of correspondents killed this year etc. etc.

Health care reform is essential and I feel it is slipping away.

President Obama was terrible in his press conferance.

I had the same sick feeling as when I watched one of the early primary debates and it was clear that Obama had no idea that his own proposal at that time did not cover all Americans. It was clear then that he was not passionately committed to meaningful reform.

I hope there is still time to clean up this fiasco.

I don't know Solar. I think it is nice to get the President's take on the news of the day - and being someone who is known to have a respected opinion on matters of race - I think it was a fair question.

Also, questions like this, i.e., off of the major issues, is one of the only ways to get a non-scripted answer.

I take more issue with the reaction. The mock outrage - when Obama was saying what many others said and thought about the situation.

Well Senator Wimpy Reid has announced nothing will happen before August recess.

Every action taken by Congress since new session started in January has shown them to be a wholy owned subsideiary of the Insurance and banking corporations. Do we riot, move, not bother voting ... can't think of a damn thing that would make them consider the people of the US before they consider their funding sources.

Relax OD. All is not lost and with the numbers in the House and the Senate - something will get passed.

But you should be hoping for a good bill - and a bill passed in a manner that won't hurt the Dems politically.

Even if eventually it turned out to be a great bill (which we likely won't know right away) - if the bill was rushed through Congress, with people not reading it, and the President not making a clear case to America re: what is in the bill and why it will improve healthcare (something he can't do till the bill gets closer to the final stage) - the Dems would suffer politically with the moderates.

Dodd and Sebelius finish press conference on health care today

http://twitpic.com/bcwmv

Warren..No, I'm not going to relax. Something is not good enough.

This year is a historic opportunity to pass more than "something".

I make my first post in two months and I'm told to "relax".

"....it was Chloe's fault...whatever it-is-it is Chloe's fault."

There you go again, always blamin' everything on me! I can't win around here.

Regardless...CONGRATULATIONS on that new baby, Grand Uncle Solar! When do we see a pic?

Hello everyone.

Thanks Jamie for helping keep us NPs in work. I hope those of you who have had experiences with NPs, had good ones. Where some younger NPs, with less experienc,e go wrong is when they try to mimic physicians. Nursing uses a more holistic model than medicine. I have seen where medicine has tried to move more in our direction.

It was also interesting Jamie, to read that police report you linked. I kind of suspected that is what may have happened. I have seen that kind of behavior before. A cop responds to a situation, as they are required to do, and some people get a really bad attitude. The cops are often just trying to do their job and they shouldn't have to put up with abuse because someone thinks they are hot shit.

If the professor would have cooperated the cop most likely would have apologized for the interruption. I'm sure he didn't want this embarrassment any more than the professor did. Of course we don't have all sides of this story yet but it sounds as if there were enough witnesses so we should have many interpretations of the situation coming.

If I was breaking into my own house I would have appreciated if a cop stopped me and asked me what was going on. I do understand that minorities have more frequently had bad experiences with the police but it doesn't give them the right to be abusive.

Obama should have held off making any comments last night until all the facts were in. It won't look too good for him if it was his buddy who was wrong.

Jumping back in - Thom Hartman today (or did Ihear it earlier on Bill Ress?) said that Obama had scheduled the press conference when he thought there was going to beagreement on the health insurance reform bill but that the Blue Dogs kinda screwed that up, the agreement didn't materialize, so Obama didn't have the momentous announcement to make that he had planned to make. So on to plan B - try and explain the HC reform plan he's like to see and explain how it would be funded - which didn't exactly hit with the kind of KaPow he had hoped. I have to agree - it was a snoozer.

And the question about Pr. Gates - just another reporter trying to make a mark after all the good questions about HC reform had been asked. Here's my question aout the whole thing - how come the neighbor didn't recognize that it was Gates breaking into his own house? My next door neighbors would certainly recognize me if I was having to break into my house. I'm guessing they aren't close friends. And yes, once Gates produced ID, anything beyond something like "Thank you, sorry for the inconvenience" by the police was stupidity even if Gates had accused them of acting like white cops have been known to toward blacks - and in Boston (well, Cambridge) no less.

Welcome back Oregon Democrat.

"It won't look too good for him if it was his buddy who was wrong. "

He'll never admit it Carol.... either that, or he'll have an excuse.

For what it's worth, OD -- I agree. I see real reform slipping away to be replaced with smoke and mirrors.

OD, my take on health care reform is that it is indeed a momumental opportunity to get something done that desperately should be done - our healthcare system is driven in large part by profit motive, and we get half-assed results for only twice the price as a consequence. But the biggest problem is that our political system is funded in large measure by the guys making that profit, so those jokers we hired to run the country aren't quite so anxious to pass meaningful reform in the face of the loss of campaign contributions as we might hope. I do find it pretty amazing that 2/3 of the cost of the reform package can apparently be paid for by shifting money already in the system. Of course I'm not sure what money or from what to what - that was a particularly vague part of PresO's presentation. But if that's correct, why all the wailing and gnashing of teeth by the right and the Blue Dogs? This should be a no brainer.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/filibustererinchief.html#comment-246059

Ct,

I hope this doesn't make people cry, but this was my clinic waiting room at 11:00 AM. It's not that there wasn't patients, but people were moved into the treatment area so tast that their rears didn't stay in the seats. My total wait time: Less than 15 minutes (I was early).

http://twitpic.com/bd21t

On the holistic front, I recently gave up wheat and weight has been dropping. Mentioned to Marthe and she said she recommends that to her senior and arthritic patients as something to try to relieve swelling in tissues and digestive problems.

Pogo,

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/filibustererinchief.html#comment-246064

Thats what I have been saying...We are think alike todyay....same goes for those ble dogs...I posted yesterday that Obama was going to have trouble with them,,,,and then just today...that some Dems from Michigan..and others want to halt the H C bill....they want to attach some right to live clauses in it. They are getting the fire for the eat your own dinners. I hope that this is wrong...since we need this H C bill.

"They say believe half of what you see and none of what you hear..."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/22/AR2009072202216.html?hpid=topnews

Eric Cantor, ar eyou listening?

T.R. Knight had a 14 million dollar contract? Holy crap! Of course, to put it in perspective, he'd be about the 10th highest paid guy on the NY Yankees. I skipped Obama last night and watched baseball. Kinda what I used to do with Bush.

eat your own kind that is

Instead of being unfairly picked on because of who Mr. Gates is, a black man, it may be just as likely that he is getting off the hook easy because of who he is, a professor and a friend of Obama's. Prejudice can go both ways. He probably knew he could get away with being an A-hole because of who he is and the cop will probably suffer from this.

That professor should be smart enough to realize than when your neighbor calls the cops to report a break in and you're the one breaking in, it should be carefully investigated and you shouldn't yell racism when it is.

pogo.... how's the Mrs. feeling today?

OD... please forgive Warren.... he can't seem to help cheerleading for Obama..... other than that... he's a great guy.... :0)

IMO, Obama should not have commented on that last question without knowing all the facts. I used to work for the police department as an extra many moons ago. I was the cross walk guard at the elementary school and I worked things like high school dances and basketball games. Mostly it was pleasant.... but you'd be surprised at how some people react to any authority saying anything... and this involved all whites.

Carol,

I haven't tried to talk to you lately cos I saw that you said that you were really busy...and then the stuff at work...everything is ok it looks like?

Yes, solar the "right to life democrats" as I've seen them referred to know just what will stop the bill - attaching Bushian provisions to it.

Report: Big cuts needed at huge Baghdad embassy built by Bush

By Warren P. Strobel | McClatchy Newspapers

WASHINGTON — The U.S. Embassy in Iraq, the government's largest overseas diplomatic mission, is significantly overstaffed and needs to be downsized to reflect the reduced American role in the country, according to a new State Department report

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/117/story/72267.html?storylink=omni_popular

That Cambridge cop is lucky he didn't run into one of our Texas gun nuts , who would have been convinced, he was there on behalf of Obama to take his guns.

Thanks Renee (kinda). Those are like the compliments I give max!!

And while I am quick to support Obama - I was a fan of taking a couple of more months to work on the bill rather than adhering to the timetable Obama proposed.

There seems like there are a number of bills out there - and it did not look possible to finalize the bill and sign it into law by August.

Now as I am typing this - I think perhaps this is just playing right into the Republicans' hand. It seems like public support for the healthcare bill has declined under the media onslaught by the Right. Perhaps they figure with a couple of more months - they can actually "kill" this thing by scaring the Blue Dogs away from supporting it.

After a month or two of additional work - will we end up with a better bill or a worse bill? And is it going to pass without Republican support regardless of what concessions are made?

Given these questions - I can see why people support the strategy of getting a bill signed ASAP. We will see where my hopeful romanticisim gets me...

Renee, thanks for asking - she's fine - still a little weak from not eating for 2 days, but otherwise, she's good.

Ann Arbor News abandons print, goes online

The closure of the Ann Arbor News makes the city, which has a population of nearly 115,000 and is home to the University of Michigan, one of the largest in the United States without a daily newspaper.

http://rawstory.com/news/afp/Ann_Arbor_News_abandons_print_goes__07232009.html

------------------
"print is dead "
Igor in Ghost Busters

Solar, All my flu guys are already better. It is the short and sweet flu and that is why it isn't getting much attention anymore. It will take weeks to find out what flu since doing the lab is no longer easy. The lab didn't even know how they were going to get the specimen to the labs doing the testing anymore.

Now what happens to this flu later may be another story.

It seems Solar that you are trying to stir a little poop, picking on Chloe like that. You better be careful.

I think Ms. Pogo had a gastroenteritis vs food poisoning. Actually the gastroenteritis is usually only a 24 hour misery where food poisoning can be more severe and of longer duration. Don't jump back to regular food too soon with either. Let the gut rest. I recommend liguids for first 24 hours then start back with boiled potatoes. They are easy on the gut.

Make that clear liguids, no dairy products.

Two groups of Chinese researchers have performed an unprecedented feat, it was announced today, by inducing cells from connective tissue in mice to revert back to their embryonic state and producing living mice from them.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-sci-stemcells24-2009jul24,0,6849298.story

C-Bob, that was announced months ago about the Ann Arbor News. Nobody reads the papers anymore. And with good reason, for a few of them!

Carol,

Got you. thanks.

From an interview with ABC News:

"I have to say I am surprised by the controversy surrounding my statement because I think it was a pretty straight forward commentary that you probably don't need to handcuff a guy, a middle-aged man who uses a cane, who's in his own home," Obama said.

...

"I think that I have extraordinary respect for the difficulties of the job that police officers do," the president told Moran. "And my suspicion is that words were exchanged between the police officer and Mr. Gates and that everybody should have just settled down and cooler heads should have prevailed. That's my suspicion."

The president said he understands the sergeant who arrested Gates is an "outstanding police officer." But he added that with all that's going on in the country with health care and the economy and the wars abroad, "it doesn't make sense to arrest a guy in his own home if he's not causing a serious disturbance."

"It seems Solar that you are trying to stir a little poop, picking on Chloe like that. You better be careful. "

Carol, We're just joking around.

"That Cambridge cop is lucky he didn't run into one of our Texas gun nuts , who would have been convinced, he was there on behalf of Obama to take his guns. "

LMAO@C-Bob! You are so right! Same in Tennessee....

Actually, I think it's the other way around, I'm enjoying picking on Solar. Don't spoil my fun. :)

Not sure why this makes me sad. Guess I get sad anytime when I hear a dog dies.

http://omg.yahoo.com/news/taco-bell-chihuahua-dies-at-15/25534?nc

Carol, thanks - that's a distinct possibility. She's had crackers and chicken noodle soup, both of which she was fine with. And aside from a little milk in her coffee (none yet of course) and the occasional dabbling in the ice cream, dairy is not something she really eats - unless it's on something even harder on the tummy, like Mexican, and she'd probably throw up just thinking about that right now.

Yeah: Im innocent over here, I tell ya. Actually no im not,,,but I will still keep saying it.

About that cop....I know the difference....been even beat up by them for no reason...and for some good reason...and have had a few one-on ones, with them. That Cop was not a racist...there would have been a lot of witnesses ...neighbors....we believe them when they contradict the Police....we have to believe them when they contradict the "offended".

Current weather at the South Pole -

07/23/2009
21:06:00 GMT
Temperature
-61.9°C -79.4°F
WindChill
-85.7°C -122.2°F

I just went and read the police report on the Gates incident. I suspect teh chief and the mayor had some kind of "Are you nuts?" reaction. Guy shows him Drivers License (according to the police report) and Harvard ID, then arrests him for disorderly conduct after he loses his cool in his own house and yard - which was described as a "public place". I doubt that Crowley or any other Boston cop has arrested every person who has yelled obscenities or accusations at him when he went out to investigate 911 calls - or Boston's jails woudl be full of people who were screamingat their kids, spouses and the cops who came to investigate. I still wonder about that neighbor who called it in...

I don't know that the guy was racist - in fact what I've seen about him suggests otherwise. I think he just lost his patience and made a stupid arrest.

Whether it's Mr. Gates or the Cambridge cop who is right or wrong....
what concerns me is that the President of the United States of American didn't have the common sense to simply say something along the lines of ....
"I'm sure there is an ongoing investigation into that matter and I have no comment."

If that was an intended "gotchya" question..... Obama was gotten, IMO....

heheheh

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/outofline/

It's the 2nd cartoon

" I still wonder about that neighbor who called it in..."

I do too, Pogo. You'd think the neighbor would have been watching this unfold...and when it was obvious who it was, would have run over and said, "Oh my God! I had no idea it was you!" But I haven't heard a word about a reaction.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/filibustererinchief.html#comment-246071

CT

What does it say about him that the neighbor didn't recognize him. I don't know if the yards are really, really big or the neighbor's eyesight was poor, but it seems he got fast police response if the sergeant arrived before the door was closed.

If there had been a real burglary in process?

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/filibustererinchief.html#comment-246102

Renee, now that's a good point.

Patsi, the only reaction I know of was the neighbor across the street - whose reaction was to take a picture, find an agent, and sell the pic for $4,000. Nice neighborhood.

If you missed it: John Stewarts "Kenyan Prince Birth Scam"

http://newmexiken.com/2009/07/the-kenyan-prince-birth-announcement-scam/#comment-17492

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/filibustererinchief.html#comment-246101

Pogo,

That was my reaction as well. It was one of those situations where both parties violated the two most basic laws for all circumstances:

Thou shalt no offend
Thou shalt not be too easily offended

G Gordon Liddy on Tweety proving he is not only as crazy as ever but that he has added age dementia to his other failings.

jamie, thankyou, thankyou, thankyou for the Stewart link.

Peggy Noonan's first day of tweeting

http://twitter.com/Peggynoonannyc

"take a picture, find an agent, and sell the pic for $4,000. Nice neighborhood."

Unbelievabe....or maybe not.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/filibustererinchief.html#comment-246112

Pogo,

It is very funny but he forgot the copy of the TRUE Kenyan birth certificate now hidden in the Vatican vault.

Off to start the Shish Ka Bob

Hey everybody,
What happened to Gates is what we , in the hood, call a contempt of cop citation. It happens all the time.
And why does anybody believe there is a shred of truth in the police report? It is strictly CYA.

The cop was probably a recent transfer from a poor part of town where this is the way they deal with folks who protest too loudly. He is probably back at his old beat today.

I think Obama gave a good answer and was very restrained imo. He , also showed he understood the situation.

Jack

Still Jack, It seems like he spoke up a little early, instead of waiting until all the facts and investigations were out there. Who know's what will happen? But it's a big deal for the President of the U.S. to come out so quickly against the cop. He should have stayed out of it, imo.

President Obama steps squarely into racial politics
"With his comments, the country's first black president all but ensured wider attention to the simmering racial dispute -- and also risked overshadowing the main purpose of his press conference, which was to drain controversy from his ambitious plans to overhaul the U.S. healthcare system.

Obama's willingness to step into the Gates controversy was surprising, too, because some facts in the case remain in dispute. It also potentially puts him at odds with police officers across the country who could rally around the cause of the Cambridge officer, Sgt. James Crowley" http://www.latimes.com/news/la-na-obama-gates-analysis24-2009jul24,0,44983.story?track=rss

Chloe

Came out against the cop?

Sorry but I didn't hear that in his statement.

I would have been a lot rougher on the poor cops tender sensibilities.
but then I would have had to pay the $170 contempt of cop fine too.

But I will alway walk out of the court room humming my theme song

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P93cI_u1mng

Jack

I went and drank a cup of coffee, and thought about this thing with the prof. and the cop...I posted last night...as soon as Omama said-what he said....that this is what the R's t alking points were going to be about, that Obama made a big mistake to answer it.

The Prof, said that ---this is what he teaches about "racism" so he should have known better than to have insisted (if he did) more than once,,or twice that the cop should give him his name. etc....I will file this one under....Sometimes even if you are Right...U are Wrong. With his prestige ...if he was still pissed the next day...he could have done something about it.

But there are is a lot of unnecessary police brutality out there thats for sure. Now Im done with this story.

Solar

I suspect that the professor is used to being treated with respect and dignity. Which is not how the police respond to someone they know to be a criminal.
BTW too many(if not all) police believe everybody they interact with is a criminal and therefor deserve no respect.

The Professor got where he is by not backing down to anything. Where as police demand you back down even if it serves no purpose. Thus he was arrested for contempt of cop.

Jack

Jack,

I understand. The reason that I said that...is exactly the way that I have done it...do not back down...cost me some bumps...but I don't mind. Now in order for my son Tom. to avoid those bumps from the cops...I have told him to be respectful, and get out of a situation unharmed. Lots of people file a complaint the next day. I do see what You are saying...and agree with the sentiment...but....

Abstinence-Supporting GOP State Lawmaker Admits To Sex With 22-Year-Old Intern

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/07/abstinence-supporting_gop_state_lawmaker_admits_to.php?ref=fpb

Stanley recently sponsored a bill designed to prevent gay couples from adopting children. And when a Planned Parenthood official recently sought his support for family planning services for Memphis teens, Stanley told her, according to the official, that he "didn't believe young people should have sex before marriage anyway, that his faith and church are important to him, and he wants to promote abstinence."

In my many years of eaching I shared fules of the road with my students..

Two of them were:

Don't talk back to a judge
Follow directions given by a police officer

I don't know the particulars of this case, but what I have seen today indicates that both parties may have over-reacted.

I think the President should have defferred comment.

teaching not eaching

My concern is not particularly with the incident itself, since the facts surrounding the Gates arrest remain
elusive---but it is somewhat surprising that Pres. Obama jumped into the middle of this incident----- and offered an opinion as to the behavior of one of the participants---- that the police acted stupidly. He usually answers with very measured words.

In the ABC interview to air later tonight he stands by
his comments:

"I have to say I am surprised by the controversy surrounding my statement, because I think it was a pretty straightforward commentary that you probably don't need to handcuff a guy, a middle-aged man who uses a cane, who's in his own home," Obama said.

To me, it is interesting that the President is surprised that his remarks have been greeted by non-stop commentary all day----his comments not only diverted attention from his attempt to rally support for his health care/insurance reform but it showed an unusual lapse in controlling the message.

rules not fules..I need to be more careful on the keyboard..

OD

As it was Gate's house and front porch it is his God given American right to overreact.
I don't care what he called the cop. The cop should have took it and excused himself then left.

Jack

OD--- I agree that generally when interacting with
the police---it is wiser to remain calm & respectful---regardless of whether you feel you are "right"---since
they completely control the circumstances at the time.

In my experience (representing clients after an arrest)
it is a no-win situation at the time of an arrest---it is
only later in court when the other side of the story can
be explained.

Coreen

This maybe more important than healthcare, what you and others are asking Obama to do is to sell his soul. He has to be honest to his beliefs and values. He was in my opinion and in a very respectful way.

He answered a very tricky question very well.

Jack

OK - so Matthews is relying on the the records of a Honolulu hospital, the HI govt, a local newspaper - and the entire life of an American citizen that epitomizes the American Dream.

And G. Gordon Liddy is relying on political operatives and a buncha peeps outside the mainstream.

There is still a lot of work to do on many fronts.

And as far as the cops across the country being upset, They need to sit down shut up and listen because they pull this shit way too much. Not just against Black but against against anybody they view as powerless. And we all know what will happen if they go to court. The cop will lie his ass off.

Jack

a musical interlude
Before the knock on the door.

Canned Heat- Framed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQTArpK9Zog

Maybe time for another one, response time must be slow tonight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQTArpK9Zog

Good advice for the kids OD.

But if Obama would have deferred comment - it still would be the topic of conversation for the day.

This was the news of the day in the mainstream media/gossip mills. People are talked out re: healthcare so we needed something light - or more opinion-based.

Anyways, I think it is good if they can get healthcare bills out of the House and out of the Senate Finance Comm. - and then all those bastards (and their staffs) can read them over their "summer vacation."

I wish my job came with August off!! And pols don't even come close to teachers in terms of deserving a break. Those little rug-rats are a 24/7 job.

"The cop should have took it and excused himself then left."

Jack, Obviously I don't know all the details, but should the cop have at least seen his id 'before' he walked away. After all, the neighbor didn't recognize him.

I agree with OD. It's always a good idea, and a hell of lot safer to not talk back to cops, whether they're on your property or not. The guy was there doing his job. Show the cop your id, thank him for protecting your home and property, and send him on his way.

Obama remark on black scholar's arrest angers cops
"Many police officers across the country have a message for President Barack Obama: Get all the facts before criticizing one of our own." http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090723/ap_on_re_us/us_obama_harvard_scholar_police

I am all about going off message.

Canned heat- Rollin' and a Tumblin'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_7c67E3qfo

Jack,

I don't know about selling his soul, & while I absolutlely respect your opinions, I remain perplexed that the President did not refrain from jumping into the Gates matter.

And this one's for you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDm_ZHyYTrg&feature=PlayList&p=DE6FB8C266AF564B&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=44

"The cop will lie his ass off."

... not a lot of love for those who serve and protect, huh Jack?

It's just funner to talk back.

LOL Warren. Yeah, its fun, but usually not worth it. It's an ego thing. Why make someones job harder than it is already.

By the way, why did that call have anything to do with color? I guess Obama will have to explain that one to me.

Coreen

this was a race issue first and foremost.

And if the first African-American President didn't have an opinion - the left would be screaming even louder than the right is now. And this way he still has his self-respect.

The far right is going to cackle no matter what Obama says - so he might as well say what he means.

chloe
They earned every bit of my respect.

But facts is facts.

Jack

Trust me chloe - I am a big fan of respecting the cops - and it usually works out for the best.

But the one time I did get arrested - as I began to politely explain to the officer why I was ripping a dead palm frond branch off a tree in front of a bar in Jersey - he spun me around, throw me in the car and the next thing I know I was down in the drunk tank handcuffed to the wall.

(With like one other dude passed out - and I am like this is the worst you could find on a Sat. nite...that was when I got solitary confine till sunrise ; )

Warren,

I don't know that the Gates incident/arrest was a race issue when it occurred---but since the President's
press conference---it has certainly become one.

Chloe

A white Professor would not have gotten a contempt of cop charge.
It is something white middle class folks refuse to understand.

Jack

Coreen

The issue of racial profiling was raised - regardless of the facts and regardless of whether Obama said something.

Obama would of dissappointed many - especially in the black community - if he did not speak up.

One thing about my neighborhood is you get educated about the facts of life in a way you never would in the suburbs.
We need the police, but they aren't our friends

Jack

Warren, That sounds horrible.
I agree, it was completely wrong and hopefully you filed a complaint. But you still can't blame every single cop, for what the bad ones do. I'm not naive, I know there are some terrible cops, some that don't deserve any respect. But how can we single them out. Maybe this cop in the case we're talking about is a fair guy. Until this thing is completely investigated, Obama should have KEPT HIS MOUTH SHUT. He has no trouble keeping it shut when reporters ask him questions he doesn't want to answer. It's important to discuss race relations, but this incident wasn't the one he should have used to do it.

Coreen

It was already a race issue, that was why Obama was ask about it.
Would anybody have ask him about a white aquaintance in trouble with the law?

Jack

Jack, That's always true. We need them and they're not our friends. They don't need to be a friend, in order for us to cooperate in order to send them on their way.

I completely understand you have had worse experiences with them than I have. But Jack, it's a crappy, dangerous job.

If that cop had left that house, taking the word from him that he was the owner, and it turned out he wasn't, he would have not been doing his job, and we'd be hearing a very different story right now. There's no evidence yet, that this cop is a racist, and it's WRONG to assume he is. And unfair.

Just wondering, did the neighbor need an ID?

oh chloe it was all that bad - that guy was completely justified in taking me down to the pokey. I was sharing it more for humour than I was as just another tragic case of a drunk white guy being abused by the pollice ; )

But it was just after I had gotten into law school and I had moments where I thought that was down the drain. But I drew inspiration from MLK...

http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~hst306/documents/letter.html

I meant "it wasn't all that bad"

Chloe,

It might look like I want to have it both ways...but what Jack is saying is right too..not just an opinion. The Police are paid by us... The do wield too much power..and life or death...they should have the patience of a saint when they see an older type ...un aggressive person etc... etc... he is right that we should not give up our right to question..and fight for ourselves....I probably would have done the same thing as that Prof....but after all said and done...waiting until the next day to file a complaint ...would not have been so bad either...no wrong here just a diff in what someone would do at the time.

Another consideration...is if you saw this type of abuse all of the time...sometimes you just have to push back.....And Jack has seen it way too many times I bet, lastly...imo...Obama is not wrong in what he said...he is wrong by choosing to say it at that time.....

That cop and the Prof. Should hit the road and talk about race relations...bet they could both help out that way.

Gates behaved better than I would have- I'd have told them to piss off and slam the door in their face.

Thanks for linking that Warren.

"And G. Gordon Liddy is relying on political operatives and a buncha peeps outside the mainstream."

ROFL, Warren -- one time when I was driving abckroads Tennessee all I could get on the radio was a station that had G. Gordon Liddy's radio show on it....and...I kid you not -- the whole show was Liddy giving sex advice to middle aged married women! I about wrecked a couple of times. Whatta maroon! and whatta bunch of maroons the women were!

"what Jack is saying is right too..not just an opinion"

I know. But this is really about what Obama said (as Coreen mentioned). The President of the United States vs. one cop doing his job according to the rules laid upon him by the local police station. How is race involved?

OSH

I can see the headlines now

"Police conduct operation 100.

Local witch in a standoff with the police."

;-)

Jack

Sorry, Jack, posted before I refresher.

".is if you saw this type of abuse all of the time.."

Solar, I can't believe that you don't think I know all of that. You must think I'm some babe in the woods out here, living in some fantasy land. Give me a break here Solar. I've live in the real world too. Just not now.

Canned Heat - On The Road Again

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrljWGIHB7c

"It is something white middle class folks refuse to understand."

... you mean 'folks' like me Jack?

But for the fact that the person--Gates apparently is a friend of the President--- this never would have been elevated to the place it is now--similar incidents
occur on a regular basis--with "not famous" if you will
persons & no one comments.

Obama, was not too smart answering....I hope that this teaches him a lesson. This is where I do part with Jack, and Warren. He could have take this opportunity to talk about Race relations......that what he promised.! A republican, would have said, let the states deal with it.

OK, I'm back and ready to rumble. This confrontation is not just between a cop and a black man. It is between a cop and a prominent university professor. Who's the weakess link?

If the facts the cop provided are correct, I think the professor was begging for a trouble and his conduct was definitely disorderly, uncooperative and it was so unnecessary.

There are witnesses so we may get more info later. Those witnesses included officers from the Cambridge and Harvard University. Also community witnesses. Has anyone heard from them?

From some of the things reported, this cop has a pretty good reputation, ie he gave mouth to mouth to a man to try and save his life. Not too many people will give mouth to mouth to ANYONE these days.

But for the fact that the person--Gates apparently is a friend of the President--- this never would have been elevated to the place it is now--similar incidents
occur on a regular basis--with "not famous" if you will
persons & no one comments.

Right on Coreen.
I'm sayin' for the third time tonight: The President of the United States decided to comment on it, as though the idea that it was a race issue was a given. The President!

Sorry for the double post--it blinked.

Carol, The voice of reason!

Ha!
That happened once, saw the police outside and then saw a tow truck coming to haul my car parked on the road. So I jumped in it and wouldn't get out. They told me that they had to confiscate because they ran my jplates and my white 1990 jeep was a stolen black 1984 jeep. I've been driving that car for years. He shouted "get the fuck out" after about a 20 minute standoff. I told him that I'm a taxpaying citizen and he had no right to speak to me like that, besides I got a witness." So he called in 4 cruisers. Now there is a crowd down at the package store, watching it all. I sat in my car probably another 10-15 minutes. I wrote a letter to the chief, an internal officer investigated the whole situation - the officer lied on his police report that my car was stolen. They were able to determine that as they can look up the reports he received when he ran my plates. I never drive on this island without that report from the internal affairs officer.

The cop has recently become a lawyer.

Ct- What color was the man he gave mouth to mouth to?

Crowley tried to save Reggie Lewis---Boston Celtics
basketball player

And often when there is confrontation between security and some of my black inmates in my joint, I side with the inmate. I've had experiences where I have even been treated very disrespectfully by cops. I'm certainly not biased for the cops.

I have seen people with higher social class positions treat cops like they are just low class dummies.

Not just you chloe

It is a constant just about everywhere,

It could be something about the fact that their kids aren't lined up along the curb in handcuffs while they check their drivers license.

Jack

I'll have to try to find that OSH. It was something I read on CNN.

Jack, You're suggesting my point of view is coming out of ignorance. Now you're being naive.

Carol & OSH

Crowley tried mouth to mouth unsucessfully on Reggie
Lewis, Boston Celtics basketball player

The next year they pulled me over and wrote me a ticket for driving under an alias. My friends heard them on the scanner- I know she has another name" They looked up my name with my ex-husband's last name. I never changed my name. So when I went to court for that, the little policeman said I was running an alias, the court magistrate asked me "why are you doing this?" I said I'm not doing anything- my name is Kathleen Cowley, but I think this has something to do with this" and I handed him the internal affairs report. He looked at it and said "Go on, get out of here before I change my mind"
They don't mess with me anymore.

LMAO at OSH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And the money quote is: "The cop has recently become a lawyer. "

Canned heat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hf0Dm-OaTNk

Chloe, I wasn't directing anything at you just the world in general.
peace

The wife called and she needs my internets savy so I'm out of here to do a little google earthing.

Jack

lol
OSH

Good prep. It is always the follow up that was where they got me for getting them in trouble with their boss and that is why I know the cost of a contempt of cop ticket.

Jack

Chloe- last I knew it was a proven fact that the whole legal system works against people of color, from arrests to sentencing. They put a moratorium on the death sentence so they could fix it, and it still is weighted. I don't know why more race groups don't push for another moratorium.

I doubt if any of us who would have acted as arrogant and uncooperative as this professor allegedly did during a break in investigation, wouldn't have also been arrested. And no one would be announcing on TV they were sorry about it either.

I really don't believe that any of us would have been such assholes when someone came to investigate a break in at our homes either. We would have more likely thanked the cop for coming to check on our homes instead of screaming at him that he was harrassing us.

It was very likely that the cop can be killed by a robber. You must consider that there is adrenalin involved for the police when approaching a potential breakin and robbery. That just doesn't dissappear immediately when things turn out OK and it does play a role when cops get hyperexcited.

That is why cops tend to be extra rough with the perp after a high speed chase. Maybe some of you could be a little more empathetic, especially Jack.

Speaking of break-ins....two would-be robbers tried to bust in a local home and the middle aged woman who lives there started cussing them and threatening to get her gun and kill them and they ran like hell. LMAO!

Carol, I don't think anyone's in the mood to think about it from the cops point of view. After all, they're convince he's a racist. End of story. A whole new world we're living in.

Being a cop is a dangerous, poorly paid and not well respected occupation. But if someone is trying to break in your home in the middle of the night, who ya gonna call? Ghostbusters?

I run into Prof. Gates regularly and he is a gentleman. The cop was an asshole. He just didn't like hearing the truth. and thought he'd show Prof. Gates that nobody is going to talk to him like that. The joke is on him now.

"I wasn't directing anything at you just the world in general.
peace"

I wasn't taking it personally Jack. When I argue about something, it's because I 'believe' in what I'm saying. I'm arguing for all the people that are just like me, but aren't here to defend themselves.

OSH, it is not necessarily black people who are victims of the criminal justice system. It is POOR PEOPLE no matter what their color or race is. I see it every day.

OJ was black and he got by with murder, two of them.

Right Carol, poor doesn't stand out in the dark like color does.

OJ was the exception to the rule.

"who ya gonna call? Ghostbusters?"

... I'm calling that lady Patsi was talking about. nite.
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/filibustererinchief.html#comment-246218

Professor Gates may be a gentleman to you Sea but how does he treat people he doesn't respect? Have you ever met Officer Crowley Sea?

Hey Carol, by the way. It sure was good to see you back here tonight. In a lot of ways, you seem like a bit of a soul mate to me. Weird, I know. But I enjoy your company. NIght again.

Someone alluded to this earlier.

I can't help but think what the outcome would have been in a similar situation if it was Alan M. Dershowitz at his house in Cambridge this same cop rolled up too. Gates is well known, maybe not like AD, but around Harvard he is I'm sure. This cop apparently doesn't know his beat very well. And it shows.

fwiw, I associate myself with most of Jack and osh's sentiments, although I understand Carol's comment about the heat of the moment.

This is sorta like the health care reform discussion; (hcs = cops) the more personal experience you've had with it the less you agree with it.

I feel some of you have had some really bad cop experiences and have let it color your opinion. I have had some pretty bad cop experiences also but I have also had some pretty bad experiences with criminals so it balances out.

I've worked around a lot of thugs and know how it can give you an attitude. At the end of some of my days I have to really be careful not to want to just bitch slap some of my inmates. It almost happened yesterday.

I've also worked with some holier than thou professors, doctors, lawyers, etc. I've wanted to bitch slap them also.

Hey Patsi,

I'm sure Gate's mugshot will be the cover shot on his next book. He'll be smiling all the way to the bank. Only in America.

Being a doctor, lawyer, professor or indian chief doesn't give you the right to be rude. Do any of you really think this would have happened if the professor would have been civil?

Carol,

He said, she said. How do we know the cop didn't say something like, "who the hell are you and what are you doing here." We'll never know.

Carol
Being rude isn't a criminal offense

If the cop had been polite do you think this would have happened either?

Jack

Many years ago, I did a "ride along" on a Friday night in Toledo with my friend (who is a cop). My friend is white. His partner that night was black. They wanted to show me the area they patroled, so we drove through many neighborhoods. Around 6:00 at night, they drove through an apartment complex parking lot. From what I could see, all of the residents at the apartment complex were black. When we drove through the parking lot, everyone looked at us. It was a look of "We aren't doing anything wrong. Why are you driving through our parking lot?" I assumed they were used to be bothered by police and they didn't like it. I know that there are some bad cops out there, but there are also a lot of good ones.

Carol--no I haven't met Officer Crowley. But I know he had a gun and the old man in his own house didn't. The Prof. knows the law better than the stupid cop and I can imagine that knowledge made the whole situation even more frustrating than to a layman. Why is it the white woman's concern got so much attention, demanding an id? Did she need an id?
Anyways, not really sure where you're going with this or why. The statistics don't support your argument.

Carol- the man is well dressed and he said it was his home. The cop didn't need to push it and ask for an ID. He is an idiot. Gates does not look in ANY way like a criminal, unless of course one considers people of color suspect.

Also, he does not know me at all and has no reason to treat me with respect. I see his behavior at doors, in line at the register, he treats the public with respect. Too bad he didn't get any from the bloody cop,

Can't use past statistics for evaluate a situation either. That wouldn't be fair. We can't judge this situation by what has happened in the past. I feel that is what is happening. I am willing to wait for the facts.

Statistics will prove that many crimes are commited by black people but you certainly don't want to use that to say that a black person is guilty of a crime because of that, do you?

I'll see Alan tomorrow hopefully and I'll get his take on it.

Have at it Carol. This is boring.

Statement on Behalf of Henry Louis Gates, Jr. -- by Charles Ogletree

"On July 16th, 2009, Professor Henry Louis Gates, Jr., 58, the Alphonse Fletcher University Professor of Harvard University, was headed from Logan airport to his home [in] Cambridge after spending a week in China, where he was filming his new PBS documentary entitled “Faces of America”. Professor Gates was driven to his home by a driver for a local car company. Professor Gates attempted to enter his front door, but the door was damaged. Professor Gates then entered his rear door with his key, turned off his alarm, and again attempted to open the front door. With the help of his driver they were able to force the front door open, and then the driver carried Professor Gates’s luggage into his home.

Professor Gates immediately called the Harvard Real Estate office to report the damage to his door and requested that it be repaired immediately. As he was talking to the Harvard Real Estate office on his portable phone in his house, he observed a uniformed officer on his front porch. When Professor Gates opened the door, the officer immediately asked him to step outside. Professor Gates remained inside his home and asked the officer why he was there. The officer indicated that he was responding to a 911 call about a breaking and entering in progress at this address. Professor Gates informed the officer that he lived there and was a faculty member at Harvard University. The officer then asked Professor Gates whether he could prove that he lived there and taught at Harvard. Professor Gates said that he could, and turned to walk into his kitchen, where he had left his wallet. The officer followed him. Professor Gates handed both his Harvard University identification and his valid Massachusetts driver’s license to the officer. Both include Professor Gates’s photograph, and the license includes his address.

Professor Gates then asked the police officer if he would give him his name and his badge number. He made this request several times. The officer did not produce any identification nor did he respond to Professor Gates’s request for this information. After an additional request by Professor Gates for the officer’s name and badge number, the officer then turned and left the kitchen of Professor Gates’s home without ever acknowledging who he was or if there were charges against Professor Gates. As Professor Gates followed the officer to his own front door, he was astonished to see several police officers gathered on his front porch. Professor Gates asked the officer’s colleagues for his name and badge number. As Professor Gates stepped onto his front porch, the officer who had been inside and who had examined his identification, said to him, “Thank you for accommodating my earlier request,” and then placed Professor Gates under arrest. He was handcuffed on his own front porch."

The Root online:
http://tinyurl.com/l2moos

The officer had no right to enter his home- not sufficient probable cause. I hope he is nailed to the cross on this.

this is getting interesting!

"Dems mull skipping panel, bringing healthcare to floor "

"House Democrats,. . , are considering bypassing the Energy and Commerce committee altogether, where the bill has stalled, and proceeding right to the floor."

From The Hill"

http://tinyurl.com/mv964t

Without more information, it's scary that you are ready to nail someone to a cross Sea. I think that has happened before.

Abstinence-Supporting GOP State Lawmaker Admits To Sex With 22-Year-Old Intern

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/07/abstinence-supporting_gop_state_lawmaker_admits_to.php?ref=fpb

Stanley recently sponsored a bill designed to prevent gay couples from adopting children. And when a Planned Parenthood official recently sought his support for family planning services for Memphis teens, Stanley told her, according to the official, that he "didn't believe young people should have sex before marriage anyway, that his faith and church are important to him, and he wants to promote abstinence."

Posted by: Colorado Bob

WHEW!!! Dodged a bullet, Cbob. This one's a Tennessean, but thank the Lord, not my state senate critter. Just your basic lech for girls young enough to be his daughters.

Rez

It was silly to arrest the professor and even more rediculous to cuff him and hold him at the station for hours. That being said, I'm sure professor Gates created the situation by not cooperating with the policeman who was responding to a legitimate call.

Sgt. Crowly seems to have a an excellent record, but probably over reacted to someone screaming at him while he was trying to do his job.

There is a long history of mistreated of black people by police, but I don't think that was present in this situation except for the over reaction with the cuffing and charging.

Carol- your bunk tonight is even scarier.

Torchwood was great tonight. All sorts of moral issues. Would you trade 10% of the world's children in order to save humanity? NO of course not ... well how about the unnecessary ones? ... well how about over population, the water we need, pollution ... thinning the herd? No. How about the thousands that already die every day with no notice simply because no one care? What are we going to do now? The aliens want the kids.

Tomorrow night is the last of the season. Have a feeling there won't be any easy answers. This is not an easy show since they have no hesitation in killing off characters you really like.

Jamie,

I don't necessarily disagreed with your 11:21 comments, but "screaming" is a relative term and was that before or after being handcuffed, which I'm not sure. I don't think Gate's statement is as copasetic as he'd have us believe. But I also think who ever said the officer statement is all CYA is on the money.

My earlier point was; we'll never really know what was in all the players' minds here or what really happened and we can only surmise based upon on own experiences in these situations and in general.

A year before I went to work at the jail I was robbed. I came home from my NP job at one of our DOC facilities, in a nearby town, to a robbery in progress. I first noticed my riding lawnmower in the ditch in the front of my yard.

I couldn't figure out how it had started itself and got there. I didn't notice the gas can sitting next to it. I had left it in the back yard, out of gas, because I planned to continue my mowing after work that day.

The perp was a tall thin black guy who I saw crawling on his belly through the side gate in my yard. I live in a rural small neighborhood with few people at home at that time of day. With my heart thumping in my chest, I high tailed it to a neighbors house and called the cops. They came. The guy escaped over the back fence.

The cops followed his trail, of my rolled coins, through fields until they lost it down the road. They later found him down the road at an abandoned nursing home. They brought him and most of the stuff he took by my house. That include a loaded gun that was under one of my pillows. It is that little 22 I had because I live alone, in the woods and neighbors couldn't even hear if I scream. That gun wouldn't hurt anyone but gave me a little comfort.

It was a horrible experience to know someone has been through your entire house and even your bed. I didn't sleep very well for a long time especially since the cops had to take my little gun for evidence. I didn't get it back for 6 months.

When I went to work at the jail, that guy was one of the inmates there. I had to see him as a patient. That was intimidating knowing that he had been through my house and my bed and knew where I lived.

I hoped he didn't recognize me. I could tell he didn't when I saw him. I took the opportunity to get to know a little about him. He was 45 years old and had spent most of his adult life in jail. He really never had any opportunity for rehabilitation at the jail. He would just get out and find the first bar he came to and people would buy him a drink. He had no where to go.

Since he had no life and no support system he just continued a life of crime, mainly to support his drug habit. If he wasn't successful he would get caught and go back to jail where he felt comfortable and safe. He never made it to prison, just spent his time in the local jail where little rehabilitiation is available.

My heart went out to that guy. I helped him get transferred to a DOC facility where he was more likely to be able to learn a skill and maybe able to find a way to support himself on the outside.

Just a little story I wanted to share. I haven't and I'm afraid to read anymore of the comments tonight. I'm just not in the mood.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/filibustererinchief.html#comment-246253

Rez,

My point was that there was fault on both sides. If the policeman had just backed out with yes sir, yes sir, and it turned out not to be as claimed, then it would have been is job. If Gates had acted in a truly sensible manner instead of being accusatory, it would have all been resolved rapidly. There is an old slogan, "When you know you are absolutely right, apologize immediately!". :-)

As pointed out way above, there are really only two necessary laws to keep yourself out of trouble and both Gates and Crowley broke them and that has caused trouble.

Thou shalt not offend
Thou shalt not be too easily offended.

"My earlier point was; we'll never really know what was in all the players' minds here or what really happened and we can only surmise based upon on own experiences in these situations and in general."

Right on, Rez....

The AMA on the economic stimulus package:

The American Medical Association has weighed in on the new economic stimulus package. The Allergists voted to scratch it, but the Dermatologists advised not to make any rash moves. The Gastroenterologists had sort of a gut feeling about it, but the Neurologists thought the Administration had a lot of nerve. The Obstetricians felt they were all laboring under a misconception. Ophthalmologists considered the idea shortsighted. Pathologists yelled, "Over my dead body!" while the Pediatricians said, 'Oh, Grow up!' The Psychiatrists thought the whole idea was madness, while the Radiologists could see right through it. Surgeons decided to wash their hands of the whole thing. The Internists thought it was a bitter pill to swallow, and the Plastic Surgeons said, "This puts a whole new face on the matter." The Podiatrists thought it was a step forward, but the Urologists were pissed off at the whole idea. The Anesthesiologists thought the whole idea was a gas, and the Cardiologists didn't have the heart to say no. In the end, the Proctologists won out, leaving the entire decision up to the assholes in Washington .

tt

Ha! Good summation TT....

Patsi, I got it in an e-mail. Pretty clever stuff.

tt

Jamie, Solar, and the others interested in Israeli history...interesting piece in the LA Times

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-cohen21-2009jul21,0,7835710.story

"Can't use past statistics for evaluate a situation either. "

Yep, that's right. And when you do that, you're being prejudice. Prejudice is ugly, no matter what for it comes in.

For all those who are so quick to blame a cop, because there are other bad cops, what is that: Guilty 'til proven innocent'?
What would happen if we treated our soldiers with the same disregard. I can only imagine what others here would say then. And I keep wondering, how is a cop so different than one of our soldiers.

Patsi,

Thanks for that article in the Latimes...booked to read later on.

This police, prof. thing some how to me, doesn't feel the same...as when I see a cop pulling over minorities and tazering them..or handcuff them, and beat the hell out of them Doesn't have the same feel as when, and I have see a lot of them....for no reason alone..just because they can...harass inocent people ...just walking down the street. I have been in bars ...where I have known the cops personally.

One-once said to his partner....I think that I have had enough to drink...I want some fun now....think that I will go and harass some chinks...we were near China Town.

I also have some friends and family, that tell me wild stories, about the innocent looking person that has guns on them....I have seen the gangs, that actively look for cops to bait..and to harass themselves...they think that it is fun to play with cops.....who they never mess around with...are the gang squads..."they don't play" they say..

Based on my own personal experiences with cops..most bad ones....I can honestly say that for the most part....trying to do thier jobs....The hair on the back of me neck..did not stand out for me on this one...usuallly I get all kinds of pissed off just looking at a tape that show a cop abusing someone....

As I said last night...this to me is going to be filed under....even when you are right you are wrong......I do think that they were both right and wrong...I can truly see both sides on this one

I hope that made some sense... I see that Im back to stuttering....happens every time that I think I can do without my Med. for my back.

I have never tried to scan form my printer... a Hewlett P deskjet printer ..to my computer...and can't find the instructions .....how is it done on yours?...anyone there that can help...thanks

In the eyes of some counties ......we are the bad cops....just because we have the power to do so.

In the name of everything reasonable, and in the face of acts of evil by terrible people, we tortured wantonly and profligately, and some of these torture techniques........known to the previous administration and most of the media as "enhanced interrogation techniques".......were actually demonstrated to many of out top officials, including the national security adviser, the attorney general, and the secretary of state, within the White House.

We imprisoned secretly at "black sites" offshore and beyond the reach of the American legal system, holding prisoners without hope of trial or, often, release; we disappeared peopl...... we murdered prisoners; we committed strange acts of extreme abuse and humiliation...

we kidnapped terror suspects off the global streets and turned some of them over to some of the worst people who ran the worst dungeons and torture chambers on the planet. Unknown, but not insignificant numbers of those kidnapped, abused, tortured, imprisoned, and/or murdered were actually innocent of any crimes against us. We invaded without pretext, based on a series of lies and the manipulation of Congress and the public. We occupied two countries with no clear intent to depart and built major networks of military bases in both. Our soldiers gunned down unknown numbers of civilians at checkpoints and, in each country, arrested thousands of people, some again innocent of any acts against us, imprisoning them often without trial or sometimes hope of release.

Our Air Force repeatedly wiped out wedding parties and funerals in its global war on terror. It killed civilians in significant numbers. In the process of prosecuting two major invasions, wars, and occupations, hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and Afghans have died. In Iraq, we touched off a sectarian struggle of epic proportions that involved the "cleansing" of whole communities and major parts of cities, while unleashing a humanitarian crisis of remarkable size, involving the uprooting of more than four million people who fled into exile or became internal refugees. In these same years, our Special Forces operatives and our drone aircraft carried out — and still carry out — assassinations globally, acting as judge, jury, and executioner, sometimes of innocent civilians.

We spied on, and electronically eavesdropped on, our own citizenry and much of the rest of the world, on a massive scale whose dimensions we may never know..... We twisted the English language, creating the ability to torture........Yeah........Cheney/Bush were bad cops......we all know that!!!!

And don’t think that that’s anything like a full list. What are we doing over at Hunduras...we are backing the new regime (which I like...I think?) what do we have over 750 bases all over the world...or are they our police stations????? Why do we keep arming bad gangsters with our weapons......and train them in the art of war......only to have them use that training against us???...They are the bad cops that we train....to keep law and order for us.....I don't know!!

Hey Solar.
I was missing you over on the new thread, wondering were you were, and then I find you here. I just emailed you to see if you were doing ok.

Coreen called us sidekicks. :)
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/07/open-thread.html#comment-246314

goes with above post.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124736381913627661.html#articleTabs=article..,,,,later.

Solar, You still here?

.... you're not stutter. You speaking perfectly.

I keep leaving off the ends of my words..... now you can see me mad at myself

After I say this, I will go back up and read the posts. I just want to say this finally.

I am bemused at the furor re who was right and who was wrong in this mess re Gates' arrest.

Each man is in a position of power and authority and each was also vulnerable.

Gates was dealing with a man with a gun.

The cop was dealing with a man of color in a town which seems to have at least a rocky history in dealing with race.

Each man should have known better, but each man went macho. Each man should admit he acted stupidly and apologize.

I am not minimizing the history and existence of police brutality and racism, but c'mon. Somebody could have been hurt - maybe killed. Each man is sophistocated and educated enough to realize the potential for real trouble, and both should have been sensible and exhibited the intelligence we have to hope they have.

Yeah, Obama should have been ready for that question, too.