Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

awooo ooooohhhh la la...

Craig...
I linked to an article over on huffington about this topic yesterday....
no one commented....

glad you've posted about it....
I find the the fact that Obama is continuing this practice to be disturbing to say the least....

President of the United States
The White House
Washington, DC

Dear President Obama:

WTF?

Sincerely yours,

CJ

It is disappointing. But more and more the government in any of its branches no longer belongs to the people. Those with access and power wheel and deal to suit themselves and the rest of us are along for the ride.

It was probably always thus, but at least they used to have the decency to pretend otherwise.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/06/casualties-in-the-war-of-words.html#comment-237039

Warren/Renee

I bleed Dodger Blue, so we can have a three way war.

I took me so long to write this that a new thread got started, so I apologize. I realize it's very long but it is important to me, if not to you. I'm going to re-post it, so sorry, Craig and all.

Patsi, Of course, you have the right to your own opinion, almost a duty.It's what I come here for. The funny part of my saying that was timidity on my part. I was so afraid of saying something that would sound pushy and cause retribution on my head, that I did everything I could to temper my remarks - remember those were the days when fireworks went off regularly. Then someone set me straight and I stopped. I've lately started adding 'in my opinion' because I felt I was getting too preachy.

I think/hope I have shown respect for all opinions, and think mine have been tolerated if not respected. What bothers me is when I myself am treated with contempt and my way of arriving at my opinions is dismissed.
That becomes an attack on me, or the good old ad hominem.

However, I do NOT come here for confrontation .

If someone disagrees with me, I am happy to see a straight forward, "Oh, no, Bethy, I don't agree at all. I think...." Instead, I read these, among others":

""I think what bothers me most is the tendency to overlook really ugly talk IF it is directed at a political figure whose beliefs are different from our own. Sexist slams are acceptable if aimed at a right winger. It diminishes us.""

""And someone's feelings about a particular person seem to influence whether he/she has sympathy about what that particular person is subjected to. ""

Those two posts are what really made me question whether I want to be here. There have been others but I don't feel like looking for them. They were directed at me because I was the first to say the joke wasn't sexist, but rather stupid, and mean etc. When I said that, a whole sewer line hit the fan. I tried to explain what I meant, to no avail.

There are no words to describe how bitterly I resent and how angry I am at being characterized as someone who formed her opinon of that joke on whether or not I like Sarah Palin. I am not shallow and that is what is stated in that post. I cannot imagine what I have done or said to make anyone accuse me of having no sympathy for one in pain. In fact, I have an incredible amount of sympathy for Bristol Palin, and I suspect poor Willow needs some as well.

I also categorically deny that I accept ugly talk as long as it's about a political opponent. Remember, I am a
registered independent and republicans are not my natural enemy. That is an incredibly unfair and in-accurate statement to make about me. I do not act like that, or evn think like that.

Because I don't want to slug anyone who says obnoxious things to me, I have been classified as passive, in danger of letting bad things get out of control. I have received lectures about it.

Perhaps you or anyone else might understand just a little bit of how seriously I take my obligation to live up to my own standards. I am not mean nor am I petty not am I shallow. I consider my opinons before I make them, and I strive to be fair.

I don't like Sarah Palin and I think she used her children. It's as simple as that. We are all sexist at times and the topic could keep a converation going for decades - what would you call all the funny lines about hotdogs and wieners last night? They were very funny but sexist as well.

Finally, don't tell me I'm wrong because I don't think right.

I'm getting mad again so had better get off. I've tried to explain my worry about whether I want to stay here or not, but I didn't sleep a wink last night because I have loved it here and felt appreciated and tolerated and as if I made some contributions. I hate the thought of leaving, but if that's what you, Patsi, and a few others think of me, the fun just wouldn't be there.

As I said, I'm writing this with no sleep so don't know how good a job I've done, but at least I've done it. Thanks to anybody or everybody who reads this.

Carol, you won't get a reply unless you give your full name and a return address.

On this thread-

I would still like to see all of the logs on the people that Cheney had meetings with. specially the energy meetings with the lobbyist . This is no surprise. Obama is picking out what he likes and what he doesn't from the last administration. Like I said the R's -the D's just take turns deceiving the public.

Bethy I put up a post to you before checking to see yours.

Bethy

Quit acting like a teacher that has to have her way-when a student doesn't agree with her.

Since Craig opened this up again. I will repeat what I said the first time around: If Letterman said that about my daughter- he would have a broken jaw!. I thought about the opposite opinion

If you think about it-they are both the right response to the insults: First there is nothing wrong for someone to take offense to his remarks by want to break his jaw. It is part of our dna-evolution.

The response that you and some other have are not wrong for the exact reason that has been expressed. Palin her self is using her family for political gains.

They all do this. Hillary used her daughter during the primaries. Cheney used his lesbian daughter the same way. Obama has put his daughters for political gains also. They all do it

If he said that about anyone in my family-any one. I will repeat-it is not only what he said that is my main bitch. I is the power and influence that he and other clowns hold over the political process that I find very very wrong with the way that we elect the potus.

Now that (if) you are reading this post-it is just to get you to come over here and tell me off again. I need you to keep my in line with you honest rebuttals of something that I posted that you don't agree with. That first line was to get your attention. Did it work? I don't mean a word of it

Like Carol said If we agree on everything-there no be a need to be here. Of course she talks to 15ft beavers and makes 10 gators cross the road so she can take a pic to make it seem possible for us to believe that prehistoric beavers are tying to eat her and the Maggie drama queen-gee I wonder where she got it from?.

Now maybe we can stop defending the late night Comics and look at what they really are selling. Bullshit. I don't think that Letterman apologized at all. He was forced by his station to come out and give an excuse for what he said. He thinks that he is too powerful to give an honest apology IMO

Patsi- glad that you are back from your little vacation. As you can see. I completely agree with you about all of this. I would like to read your long post about it all.

Warren-

I knew that there was something that I liked about you. Anne ( vampires-U gonna give a Carol a little nip in the neck?)Rice. I read all of her books and agree with why most people read her. Me it was the philosophy that she had in them.

The Idea that a Vampire could live so long as to have met all of the worlds most interesting people on history is what I found employable.

Like they were talking about some friend that they grew up with. The way that she made you feel like you like them for the way that they were. Other than My E. R. B. Tarzan series she is the best. I even have her Mummy book. I have not read any of her books since she went all religion on me tho:

PS-

Patsi - I found a way that I can eat your french toast- to not feel all guilty about eating them. I use 12 grain bread-I use honey instead of jelly. Actually now it is kinda healthy with the peanut butter-eggs and honey. With a big cup of coffee It gets me a lot of energy to get me going. Ok Back to lurking.

"you won't get a reply unless you give your full name and a return address."

A reply to what Flatus? I came home for lunch since I forgot to turn off my computer here and wanted to check on the Magster. She seems OK. Maybe it was a Freudian thing cus my computer was on the fritz at work and I couldn't even lurk. Addiction problem.

Bethy we had this lady who wrote on this blog a while back. I enjoyed her comments. She didn't always get along with everyone and she was also very sensitive. Her name was Heather. Her sensitivity made her leave the blog. Sometimes I think she felt slighted when I didn't see it.

I am also scared and intimidated at times when I write, that is why I say I'm throwing this in here and jumping behind the couch. Give that a try. No one knows us here so no one can look us up to bitch slap us if they don't like what we say, so you should be safe.

You can practice your thoughts here safely. But you can't, either, insist that everyone will like them or agree. If you have that strong desire for everyone to approve of you all the time, this ain't the place for it or at least I wouldn't enjoy it if it was. I want some opposition.

And Warren, when you said give Maggie a kiss for me, you finished winning our hearts, both Maggie and mine. You already had a good start, especially when we shared happy hour one weekend.

"....what would you call all the funny lines about hotdogs and wieners last night? They were very funny but sexist as well."

bethy, agree and what also crossed my mind was how different the ensuing conversations might have been had the symbolism been female rather than male.

in any case, it was good to see your return to the trail and a relief that the perceived fatwah has been lifted.

And I referenced you favorite saying yesterday Solar...the "I'm totally innocent here" one. Were you lurking yesterday for the girls afternoon party. If not, you missed a good afternoon. All those womens and you couldn't get your hands on any of them. (This is a joke Solar so don't get your feelers hurt) It would have been tough on you.

We are allowed to be sexy if we want to! Hey Jamie started it. All her talk of jumbo weiners. She won't admit it though. She tries to act all sophisticated and above it all. Doesn't fool me. (Just a joke Jamie) HA HA?

Well I'd better get back to work before they send out the police for a search.

I liked Heather. Wonder if she is ever still around lurking (we must come up with a better term). How bout watching?

Warren....

you mean the way one of my all time favorite movie characters.... Chauncey Gardiner.... liked to "watch"..... hmmmmmm?

OK - another way to think about some the secretive manuevers taken by recent administrations is that they are a reaction to the 24/7 modern media.

These days - any bit of information can be misinterpreted, maligned, distorted and shot out to millions. Then there is a need for damage control.

So again, I like transparency. And perhaps there are shady activities Obama is trying to hide.

But they might also be thinking that disclosing this info could cause us a bunch of headaches on non-issues - so if there is precedent not to disclose - let's go for it.

Anyways, on balance I agree that Obama this info should generally be disclosed. But there might be sometimes when you do want to disclose for good reasons. For example some back channel, off the record diplomacy. So instead of making selective non-disclosure - it is just easier to shut everything down.

That is a great movie RR!!

"...the White House is the people's house"

craig, yes, but it's the people's not msnbc's.

"The Secret Service also turned aside a request by msnbc.com for the names of all White House visitors since Jan. 20."

the above is quoted from the story your post referenced. it is conceivable that the people's security (terrorism or massive bank failures) may have been at stake during that time and that not disclosing on demand who talked to whom at the wh was essential in protecting the people/us.

withholding info sometimes is for a good cause. ask people like valerie plame.

warren, we must be channeling the same dimension today... you said better what i was trying to say in my disagreement with craig's post.

in rememberance of tmrs past, anybody know how maggis and prof marcia are doing? never heard from them after the big fires in california and wondered.....

Warren- I like listening as apposed to lurking- Thats what I do- I think:

Carol- Not I was not listening-but cought up later last night. I thought it was very funny. With in bounds of acceptability. The late night writers could have taken a lesson here. You wiener joke reminded me of my favorite raunchy movie-Porky's.

Lets face it there are always going to be blond jokes: Women jokes. Ethnic jokes. I think that they are all ok. Just keep them impersonal.

Bethy,,,gonna tell jokes until U stop me

WHAT DO MOST PEOPLE DO ON A DATE?
Dates are for having fun, and people should use them to get to know each other. Even boys have something to say if you listen long enough.
-- Lynnette , age 8 (isn't she a treasure)

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/06/a-cloudy-transparency.html#comment-237063

ct, she certainly did and for jamie, she uncharacteristically made a mistake, there are jumo franks and there are dinner franks. not jumbo dinner franks! harummmph

http://www.hebrewnational.com/pages/products/franks/index.jsp

I got yer log right here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0xsqV3zk1Y

If Team Obama declassifies the log, the terrorist win.

"What bothers me is when I myself am treated with contempt and my way of arriving at my opinions is dismissed.
That becomes an attack on me, or the good old ad hominem."

What you need to know Bethy is that I only read your very short posts, which means I miss almost all of them. Long posts without formatting are something I skip over. (So I often miss what you, Max, AND my friend Solar say...) I had no particular thoughts of who said what about the issue. I certainly didn't know what YOU said.

At any rate, have a piece of pie. You'll feel better.

The more things change - the more they stay the same!
Barack is even more of a control freak then G Bush !

Careful you may get what you asked for.

3.5 years to go

Okay, okay, I give, Solar. I feel a lot better having got that off my chest, and when you're ridiculous, you're just too much. I'll bet Judy tells you that all the time.

I thought Maggi was pretty involved in politics, and Prof Marcia was writing a book, wasn't she?

Cajunjoe - I absolutely love your letter.

I don't know about this log thing. What I do hope is that he is getting the message that a lot of his voters are getting restive. I think he needs to make some sense one of these days.

I don't care if you disagree with me. What bothered me was the idea that my opinion of Sarah Palin had anything to do with what I thought of the joke.

""what also crossed my mind was how different the ensuing conversations might have been had the symbolism been female rather than male.""

I thought the same thing, patd - kinda horrible, huh?

Patsi - I enjoyed your post. Hope you read this.

LMAO.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/06/a-cloudy-transparency.html#comment-237063

CT

No harm no foul. :-) I sort of started it simply because a sentence hit my little double entendre brain and made me giggle.

Unless there is a specific attack by name, I just assume everyone is doing exactly what I'm doing: Sitting at their computer and spilling out ideas. Most of the time even when disagreeing with an idea, there is no personal malice involved and I know at some time in the future that person and I will probably agree about something else.

Water: Ducks Back

Candide here has cultivated her garden this AM (well, actually, just deadheaded the petunias) and says thanks to Craig for tweeting his appearance on COUNTDOWN tonight to discuss Sen. Ensign and his pecadillos.

And even though he insists the affair is over, and his wife insists, as all political wives are obliged to insist, that all is forgiven and she's standing by her man, can't resist a musical razzberry:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04teNy-lvdg

Moe Bandy's "It's a Cheatin' Situation"--

That's not Janie Fricke, who sang on the original recording with Moe--it's his wife, Terri Williams.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/06/a-cloudy-transparency.html#comment-237071

patd

I think they may have gone back to being Republicans. :-)

PS thanks for linking Fairweather on the blogroll--:)

Bethy

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/06/a-cloudy-transparency.html#comment-237078

HEY------ Im sensitive over here. What was it? Im not going to stop telling jokes. Just a little solar lie :-)))

Max

The reason that people say that your an R- is of the way that you talk like an R!. After reading your last cpl of post- I have to agree with The Big ReZ- you had it all covered on the Iranian election.

You said that it doesn't really matter who won. They are all the same. One was worse than the other. What I see is that the Iranian people are the big winners here. They showed the world that they are against the powers that be.

In one of the debates-it was said and argued that. The statements about there never was a Holocaust was stupid and untrue. No one can use that stupid statement anymore to go bomb Iran huh?

That is what I have been trying to tell U when I say that they don't want the nuclear weapon. They don't want war. That there will be a blow back( radiation-50% of them would be wiped out) by using one-they understand that we would take them out if they fired just the one weapon that they might get.

They showed the faces of the women. The faces of the men that stood up to power. They showed the War hungry Netanhayu's the faces of regular people. Not of a people that wants their government to go to war.

Bill Maher has a show that has very enteresting guest most of the time. You can get an honest feel for what they really think. It is a very entertaing show, But it is just a show.

One can not make an informed vote just by watching his show.
I would like him to say. Here is a new rule. You must not get all of your news from people like me. Research all of the news outlets before you vote. Newspapers. Cable . The web.

"I think they may have gone back to being Republicans. :-)"

jamie, but tm is a big friendly tent (isn't it ping?). i even have friends who are republicans, even married one once.
and as seinfeld would say 'not that there's anything wrong with that"

btw, sorry about calling you out on the non existent jumbo dinner frank.... love both, but then i may be bi-wieneral. bi-frankel?

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/06/a-cloudy-transparency.html#comment-237043

LOL Joe. That pretty much says it all. :)

"No one knows us here so no one can look us up to bitch slap us if they don't like what we say, so you should be safe."

Thank heaven for that, or I would be in pretty bad shape by now. And the following didn't take me long to figure out when I got here: "If you have that strong desire for everyone to approve of you all the time, this ain't the place for it". We have to thicken our skin if we want to last at TM. More so in the old days.

"Iran election turnouts exceeded 100% in 30 towns, website reports
At least 200 polling stations across Iran had participation rates of 95% or above, say sources of centrist Auyandeh site"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/global/2009/jun/17/iran-election-rigging

Ping: We did get what we asked for and I am very pleased.

7.5 years to go my friend. (Probably 15.5 more with Hillary to follow)

Get used to being in the minority.

KGC,
(from your statement on the previous thread) I'm not really an optimist. It's just that I learned a long ago that things rarely go the way you want them to, so I got in the habit of looking for the bright spot in most situations. It probably started out as a way of coping with disappointment when I was a kid, then became a habit. Maybe it's just something a person who hates it when she doesn't get her way had to do. ? Regardless, I'm a firm believer in Murphy's law, and that belief never lets me down. I'm no Pollyanna though. I'm just a realist.

Carol

You see what U started.
That's the trouble with you women. You can't leave a good joke alone. When it has fulfilled it's purpose.

Once you have put the wiener in the fire to cook- and have been satisfied. It might be ok to say that you were very satisfied. Maybe even say it's name- to say how it satisfied you- like no other wiener has:
but to go on and on like if it was the only wiener in the world.....well that is just not right and makes all of the other wieners a little mad with envy and not be at their very best.

Some of them have even tried to use a little water in them to make them appear Jumbo size-I guess that they didn't hear that water causes shrinkage. O well. Im glad that we have a nurse on hand here at TM. Had my say about it. I won't have any more to add.

a mn justice re franken/coleman opinion:

"Gilbert said because there's no real pressure, or legal deadline, the court can take as long as it needs to issue the order."

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2009/06/15/gilbert_franken_coleman/

Hi Chlo--Pic of proof that Cheyenne gets my apples.

"But it is just a show."

Solar.... I think that's something a lot of people tend to forget when they are watching late night tv and/or cable news shows. Some things are said for effect and to be intentionally provocative.... it helps with ratings.

I think most of the cable news shows' pundits develop a certain persona they use only when on their shows. I think this explains why someone such as Chris Matthews can act so differently on his Sunday morning show as compared to his MSNBC show Hardball.

On Maher's recent show, PJ O'Rourke called Obama a "communist". When Maher asked him why do you say that, O'Rourke said "because I'm a Republican... what else am I suppose to say." IMO, O'Rourke (who is classified as a satirist) was trying to be funny while provocative. Sadly.... at least to me... some will believe he actually meant it.

Sorry forgot to say - please.

solar, don't forget some have heartier appetites.

"All good things don’t have to come in small packages. Hebrew National’s Jumbo Beef Frank has the same great taste as other Hebrew National products but is almost twice the size of a regular hot dog to satisfty heartier appetites."

http://www.hebrewnational.com/pages/products/franks/jumbo_hotdog.jsp

Solar, You weren't around, so I didn't take the pic. But I promise I will this weekend.

... please not necessary from you Solar.

As if we needed any more proof of the nonsense that could be stirred up over the log - check out some of the reaction to the freakin garden!! Unbelievable....

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0609/23838.html

warren, unbelievable

"Jeffrey Stier, associate director of the council [american council on science and health], who referred to the Obamas as “organic limousine liberals.”

“I think the Obama garden should come with a warning label,” he continued. “It’s irresponsible to tell people that you should have to eat organic and locally grown food. Not everyone can afford that. That’s a serious public health concern.”

His reasoning: “People are going to eat fewer fruits and vegetables. Cancer rates will go up. Obesity rates will go up. I think if we decide to eat only locally grown food, we’re going to have a lot of starvation.”

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0609/23838.html#ixzz0IiDi8lc1&D

New Book on Hate Groups that looks interesting particularly in light of recent events:

http://www.powells.com/review?utm_source=review-a-day&utm_source=review-a-day&utm_medium=email&utm_term=&utm_campaign=rad_20090617&utm_content=Review-a-day%20HEADER

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/06/a-cloudy-transparency.html#comment-237086

patd

I probably should have inserted the word "partisan". Their whole purpose seemed to be to encourage former HIllary supporters to reject Obama and vote McCain under the PUMA banner. Once the election took place they disappeared.

Renee

I agree with that. I haven't watched C. M. Sunday show for quite a while. Even then he did have a better format that on his msnbc show.

My impression of that show however is that it still was all about him. His books. His ending comments. It was his show-so he could do with it what he wanted. For me it was just too much of him.

Maybe I will look at it this Sunday after church. Just to see if he is still the same, I don't expect too much diff.-but will look for a different type of attitude.

I think some times he doesn't hear what some of his guest are saying. He hears an opening for furthering his own thoughts too much.

Chlo

Just wanted to say hello-is all. I pic of a rubbered lipped horse eating an apple is ok too.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/06/a-cloudy-transparency.html#comments

I don't necessarily have no dog in this fight about the visitors' logs, but I will 'low this: I'd like to know who's visitin', just out of nosiness. Us knobites ALWAYS like knowin' who's visitin' the neighbors. Lotta gossip gets generated that way. Some of it's even the truth.;)

KT-

Hello. I see that you are sitting at one of TM's coffee table with us. Im over here in the corner that they put me at.

Don't let the girls here fool you. Can be as dangerous as a rattler! all of em. but if they bite-what a way to go :-) Except- Patd- that is. She is the one that hovers over us all just to make sure we keep the Tm spirit.

There ok if you like girl I guess. Me I like

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHAs4hv9_wo#

Warren, Controls and reform are one thing. Control and restriction and bad order of fix is another.

The number one mistake that Obama made was not addressing Healthcare first. You fix this it helps every other situation, Maslow baby !!!
This would have taken stress off of the Auto Industry, It would have kept a number of people from default on homes as health crisis..... I am sure many can think of more

If Barack gets back to center and delivers controls that build a better capitalistic free enterprise then he will get 4+ - If not he is Toast

The Ping said

"The number one mistake that Obama made was not addressing Healthcare first. You fix this it helps every other situation, Maslow baby !!!"
This would have taken stress off of the Auto Industry, It would have kept a number of people from default on homes as health crisis..... I am sure many can think of more"

I-we I think have said the same thing before. I have said it just after he was elected. Spend some of the plitical capital on this as soon as he got into office because he would have the backing of all of the D's .

Most of the R's would have gone along imo. They were in disarray-plus did not know who was who at the time. No one to appose it in other words?

Solar - More good points.

And with Healthcare they need to do more the just put a check in the box.

Also it seems he is pushing to cover every American, Like illegal Mexican Americans.... What is that about

@#$%^&(()&%^$@@)(**& (Expeltives disguised)

Frigging Vista just froze on me again!!!!!!!!!

In case anyone is considering purchasing a computer loaded with this monstrosity perpetrated on an unsuspecting populace may I remind you one more time:

http://www.blogger.com/post-edit.g?blogID=20306397&postID=3672194788135039897&pli=1

Solar....
I didn't mean to imply I think you (or anyone else) ought to watch either of Matthews' shows. Except for a few peeks when the Red Sox aren't playing,
I don't watch Hardball. And I haven't watched any of the Sunday political shows in over a year. Sundays for me are for friends, family, and having fun with frivolous stuff.

And I do agree..... Matthews does have a HUGE ego...

Living on the West Coast with a crazy psychopath for a neighbor.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/17/AR2009061700378_pf.html

Hi SolarCrete--nice to meet you. Interesting place here.:) Truly I mean to try to stay at a corner table--preferably by the jukebox--:D Don't always manage it though.

Oh Jamie, you know what is worst than Vista? Nothing.

Even if you wanted to uninstall Vista and install XP, won't help you as all the drivers on that computer are Vista drivers. Good news though, MS is coming out with a new OS in Sept. to take the place of Vista. Now that is a true oxymoron, MS coming out with a new OS that will work coming out of the box.

CB

When you show up, I put that Google firebird tribute to Stravinsky to good use today.

http://jdurward.blogspot.com/

hey...... KT....

yo.... get your butt over here at the center table with us girls....

today's menu is your choice of beer, wine, jumbo hot dogs or baloney....

Ping

With the Mexican immigrant, Illegal or not. they would have to be taken care of.

I have had a cpl. in the past. I know other corps that have or had them also. First if they are not taken care of who will do the work?

Now you can say that there are Americans that will do it. I can't find any young ones that will work for a fair wage-they all want to be a partner with me-or won't work hard to earn the cash that they get. ( not all of them but most).

We as parents have made it too easy for them. They are lazy and expect things to get done without putting in the hard labor. Well you get my drift.

Ping you are a pretty hard working guy-but will retire pretty soon at some future time. Same here ( I will never retire-I love to work) Who do you think will do all of the work that is now being done by the boomers that will retire all at one time.

Where will we get the work force that will be needed? I trhink that we would be better off if we educate to ones that are here and give them the right to be here. Oh I don't think that there is any such thing as an illegal from Mexico.

Other Latin countries as well as Polish, Irish. etc. are. I might be convenient to forget that we took 44% of Mexico's land during the Illegal war of invasion. Land that made us rich in Oil. Gold. etc. Just saying.

KT

I hope you took the time to watch the video under the blogroll. If you send a picture to Craig, you might get included into the next incarnation.. Some of the current crew are there and others are not. It was made at a time when we had lost track of Colorado Bob, so we are overjoyed now that he has returned once more.

Renee- You didn't - I just said what I thought my impression of him was. I will say this about him-he did have a some interesting guests on his Sunday show that he had to give some respect for.

That is most of them. I did have a habit of yelling at the screen HEY DON'T WASTE MY fn ( little whisper there=Craig u know) TIME. when people like Peggy Nooner was on!!

I think I may have located where Solar is finding his jokes:

http://pointmeister.blogspot.com/2009/06/laugh-little-lot.html

"hey...... KT....

yo.... get your butt over here at the center table with us girls....

today's menu is your choice of beer, wine, jumbo hot dogs or baloney.."

See what I mean. That one there wrastles with bears. The one over in LA with 50ft beavers and gators. I think she is into voodoo also. she aint foolin me Nurse HA!

Even that sweet bird watching gal Ivy doesn't fool me. She is a snake chramer. she has all kinds of em in her basket. No wonder is sit in the corner.

By the Juke box. Thats my chair that you were sitting on. U might as well go over to the girlie table-cos that were U will be anyways!

I maybe just said a bad joke. But like some have said. She (Peggy Noonan ) is part of the political discourse.

oops, i've got an unforeseen scheduling conflict, won't be on "Countdown" tonight as planned

what?!!

after getting us all hepped up that we'll get to see your pretty face on the tele...

that's it Craig..... no fried baloney sandwich for you..... :0)

RR

"And I haven't watched any of the Sunday political shows in over a year. Sundays for me are for friends, family, and having fun with frivolous stuff."
And I haven't watched any of the Sunday political shows in over a year. Sundays for me are for friends, family, and having fun with frivolous stuff.

Is this your version of tough love?

Jamie-

"I think I may have located where Solar is finding his jokes:"

Jamie, Nice try. Good memory. That was a great joke. But they took it from me or where it go to get some jokes. Wanna hear a Tiger Woods joke-a little racy-but not a swear word in it.

By the way. That is whay I think that-that wiener joke was so damn good. Not a swear word in it. It had me laughing so much that I will post it in a very special place for ____ that has a section for jokes.

fry....
nope.... Solar just mentioned it....
my idea of tough love involves wrestling with bears.... ;)

Bethy-

I don't hear you laughing yet.

WHAT DO YOU THINK YOUR MOM AND DAD HAVE IN COMMON?
Both don't want any more kids.
-- Lori , age 8

Patsi - Here is a cpl for you.

WHEN IS IT OKAY TO KISS SOMEONE?
When they're rich.
-- Pam , age 7

The law says you have to be eighteen, so I wouldn't want to mess with that.
- - Curt , age 7

No problem. Just means I don't have to pay attention when #1 comes up. See ya next time.

(In any case, I do hope KO doesn't have Michael Musto instead. Talk about a reason to use the remote. . .)

hey...... KT....

yo.... get your butt over here at the center table with us girls....

today's menu is your choice of beer, wine, jumbo hot dogs or baloney....~~Renee

Uh--If I answer this the way I'm tempted to I am SOOOOO gonna be in trouble--;)

CB

When you show up, I put that Google firebird tribute to Stravinsky to good use today.

http://jdurward.blogspot.com/

Good one, Jamie. I took a peek earlier. Good blog you have there. I'm adding it to my faves.

Posted by: SolarCrete | June 17, 2009 3:38 PM :
"With the Mexican immigrant, Illegal or not. they would have to be taken care of. "

Good point. The republicans prefer to have the counties foot the medical bills of indigents, because most of the iis are in core cities, and inner ring burbs : Dem country. The outer ring of burbs and inner ring of xurbs, the republican reservations, have relatively few iis. Therefore republicans don't have to pay much for ii health care UNTIL the Feds get involved.

Re tough love and wrestling with bears :
Why does it always have to escalate into violence ? Can't you go to a conflict resolution expert? Perhaps, you and the bear could mediate a compromise, if some neutral person would facilitate. I mean, remember Ahab and that whale ? Those two should have gotten the conflict resolved before it escalated into grist for a made-for-tv movie.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/06/casualties-in-the-war-of-words.html#comment-237031

"Follow Bill's advice, start looking like a partisan hack like Bush, and Dems will suffer in 2010 and 2012 because they will lose the moderates."

Hey Warren
I didn't get from Bll Maher that he wanted the President to be partisan.I took from it that he wants the President to top worrying so much about being popular and just push his agenda.Its a given the Republicans are not going to support anything he puts forward and that's not because the President is being partisan.I work with a 100% Republican(Grace) all day through the week and she will never like anything a Dem President or politician does....I told her today the Dem's were elected because GWB was the worst President in the history of this country and she was like 'how can you say that he kept us safe"......Oh and yes I agree with you the President has not been a strong advocate for gays ...Maybe that's me being selfish but were talking about civil rights here!!!

edwards
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/17/AR2009061701844.html?hpid=artslot

xrep....

well call me Ishmael.... what the hell else is a fun lovin' female to do with an animal of ursine nature that wants to steal the nourishment she so ardently procures for her avian friends....

maybe I should just give it up and become Queequegish..... I hear tattoos are all the rage nowadays.....

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/17/us/politics/17gays.html?_r=1&nl=pol&emc=pola1

"U.S. to Extend Its Job Benefits to Gay Partners"

Mr. Obama, in an Oval Office announcement, is expected to offer details about which benefits will be provided. It is the most significant statement he has made on gay issues, and it comes as he faces intense criticism from several gay rights leaders over what they suggest has been a failure to live up to campaign promises in the first months of his presidency.

Mr. Obama will be weighing in for the first time on one of the most delicate social and political issues of the day: whether the government must provide benefits to same-sex partners of federal employees. While he will announce a list of benefits, officials said, they are not expected to include broad health insurance coverage, which could require legislation to achieve.

The initial reaction from some gay rights advocates was mixed.

“Extending benefits to partners of gay federal employees is terrific, but at this point he is under enormous pressure from the gay civil rights community for having promised the moon and done nothing so far,” Richard Socarides, an adviser to the Clinton administration on gay issues, said Tuesday evening. “So more important now is what he says tomorrow about the future for gay people during his presidency.”

"Tens of thousands of people have again taken to the streets in Iran's capital Tehran in protest at election results.

It follows a call by presidential challenger Mir Hossein Mousavi for further peaceful demonstrations.

An even larger protest is expected on Thursday, which Mr Mousavi says should be a day of mourning for the eight people killed after Monday's protest."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8104466.stm

Patd,
Thanks for linking that Edwards article. It was very thorough in covering what John has been doing since he left the primaries. After the first page, I thought it all sounded kinda sad and depressing. Then by the third page, I was left thinking he sounds just like he did before, talking about all the same things, as though nothing happened. I wish I could have heard a little more introspection on his part, a little more what he's learned as a human being from all that's happened, more about how much things have changed. More about how these changes have affected him and his family. IMO, he hasn't changed or learned anything new that I can see.

I guess my first instinct was right.... it's pretty depressing. I can't imagine the relationship between him and Elizabeth.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/06/a-cloudy-transparency.html#comment-237130

hope this "unforeseen scheduling conflict" is good news and we'll shout huzzahs tomorrow in your honor.

Odd that Edwards is in a wait and see mode (his words), when he could just be moving on and starting over on something new.

KT

I hope you took the time to watch the video under the blogroll. If you send a picture to Craig, you might get included into the next incarnation.. Some of the current crew are there and others are not. It was made at a time when we had lost track of Colorado Bob, so we are overjoyed now that he has returned once more.~~Jamie

My dialup's such a pain in the labonza about video that I haven't tried--can say this much--I haven't had my pic taken since I was a senior in college! Would a caricature of a blue-eyed brunette too chunky for the Victorians but too skinny to interest Rubens do?

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/06/a-cloudy-transparency.html#comment-237157

It's good that something is beginning to be done, isn't it Tony? What's your take?

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/06/a-cloudy-transparency.html#comment-237157

I think after reading this article regarding what the President will offer gay partners i feel worse than ever!! It seems to be a pattern with him promise a lot and give a little.On this I agree with Bill Maher "Not what I voted for"..Selfish of me maybe but its how I feel....

Someday, the republican scrooges and Feefifofummers will be old and infirm. They will sit in their wheelchairs looking helplessly up at their personal service attendants.

Will that personal care attendant be a happy fellow, who feels that he and his loved ones were/are treated fairly and with respect , and who is committed to treating people with care and dignity ? Or, will scrooge or the giant be looking up at a guy who thinks that he and his family were cheated out of opportunities, and treated like trash ?

When the time comes for the insertion of a catheter, does anyone think that the way the history and attitude of the personal care attendant might make a difference in the way he performs catheterization ? Will tom tancredo wet his depends, upon discovering that the fellow who walked in to give him an enema, was one of those 'illegals' tancredo persecuted ?

I think it would be rough justice (and delayed tough love) for the scrooges and giants to draw all the personal care attendants w/attitudes.

Not selfish at all Tony. You don't feel like you're getting what you paid for.

The last ones. These were sent to me. they know that I love anything with children in them.

No person really decides before they grow up who they're going to marry. God decides it all way before, and you get to find out later who you're stuck with.
-- Kristen , age 10

WHAT IS THE RIGHT AGE TO GET MARRIED?
Twenty-three is the best age because you know the person FOREVER by then.
-- Camille , age 10

HOW CAN A STRANGER TELL IF TWO PEOPLE ARE MARRIED?
You might have to guess, based on whether they seem to be yelling at the same kids.
-- Derrick , age 8

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/06/a-cloudy-transparency.html#comment-237043

Carol, my bad. I misread CT for CJ in his anonymous letter to the Prez. :(

Posted by: xrepublican Author Profile Page | June 17, 2009 6:08 PM

Karma. Ah yes I remember it well

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/06/a-cloudy-transparency.html#comment-237168

Hey Chloe
Thanks I feel better thinking of it that way.I want to think that its going to be ok and The President has to set gay issues aside to really accomplish more important business for the country.I just fear if it gets beyond his first year in office the things he promised us gays will not happen...

Tony

You. all of the people that are gay or lesbians. Work and pay taxes just like the rest of us. Obama was not ever going to deliver to the gay community like he said-there is now way right now that any politician will.

The country is to wrapped up in religion IMO to do this right now. anyone that does so is going to be a first termer. I do-can see him doing something in his second term. I hope so any way?

first termer- one termer

".I just fear if it gets beyond his first year in office the things he promised us gays will not happen."

I'm thinkin' he'll try again down the road. This issue is important just like all the rest..... it's about equal rights and that's what America is supposed to be about. If he's not moving forward on it at this time, you'd think he could provide some kind of explanation. We'll see.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/06/a-cloudy-transparency.html#comment-237165

Yes Chloe its good some things are being done.I just feel the time is now the President will never be more popular.The President I believe has within his power to over turn Don't Ask Don't Tell" and many other forms of discrimination..What if LBJ had done civil rights legislation for blacks in dribs and drabs??

I should have said that was to you Tony. Sorry you're disappointed.

Posted by: RebelliousRenee | June 17, 2009 5:46 PM : "well call me Ishmael.... what the hell else is a fun lovin' female to do with an animal of ursine nature that wants to steal the nourishment she so ardently procures for her avian friends....

maybe I should just give it up and become Queequegish..... I hear tattoos are all the rage nowadays....."

Ms Renee,

I had a pal who lived in the woods south of Spokane. He swore that bird seed was the bear's favorite food. I'm looking for some pix he sent me that show the bears lounging all over the hardtops of his collection of late 60s gashogs. If I can find them, I'll share.

Queequeg's hobby was carving coffin carving. A tattoo may be a hoot for an afternoon, but a coffin is forever.

Gotta run and feed Sweetie. She's ruminatin' in the garden without me.

"...in dribs and drabsand drabs..."

Golly, Tony, that phrase says it all.

It sure seems like a lot of business is still taking place behind closed doors. I don't follow any of this close enough to know if we've gotten some of that transparency we, the American people, were promised. I'm looking for it though.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/06/a-cloudy-transparency.html#comment-237174

Solar
You are the voice of wisdom.I agree with you that it would be political suicide for the President...I go back to the same thing the old guard has to die off...TIME and Patience is required by me as well as my gay brethren...

Interesting how an extra 'and drabs' was added. Wonder how it happened.

Funny Flatus. One of those mysteries. :)

You're right Chloe. I don't respect people who must sneak in the back door in order to whisper in our President's ear.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/06/a-cloudy-transparency.html#comment-237178

Thanks Chloe
Hey its nothing I can't work through..I love Bill Clinton but he disappointed me on many an issue.I'm a UAW member and it still irks me he signed NAFTA into law..Didn't President Obama promise to repeal it or reopen NAFTA?I better stop with this lest I become a negative bore....HA HA, never...:^)

Ha Flatus. They probably just send him an email or text message. Maybe it begins like this: You owe me.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/06/a-cloudy-transparency.html#comment-237180

Yes Flatus
It certainly explains much of whats going on....

Solar, first kudos to Obama. He is half right so far in his Iranian election play. http://www.rr.com/home/home/article/rr/9000/7961881/Iran_accuses_US_of_meddling_after_disputed_vote

Obama saw the obvious Mullah move coming and went out of his way to avoid the perception of US meddling. So, now when Ahmadinejad tries to play the Obama card, the people ain't buying it. Obama's the dude that's been making nice since before his acclaimed election......And he is right not to congratulate Ahmadinejad. That will now cost something....As far as what we see of the Iranian street, many genuinely love either Mousavi or Ahmadinejad. Still, we see the deciding element as the sentiment for change and new Liberality, or at least that's what Keller is reporting....

Mousavi probably won. He didn't win because people love him, he caught fire as the not Ahmadinejad vote. Sort of like the anti Bush mindset.

Yes, most people under 40 seek Western intercourse and a far more liberal exchange & commerce. Solar, what that has to do with Netanyahu's perception of the Iranian regime, I don't know. The Mullaha represent the existential threat. And this mindset has anolgues in some other Islamist ideology and terrorism. No one in Israel has targeted the Iranian people. Israelis and Iranians once had cordial relations. Netanyahu is talking about the threat of the Iranian regime including Quds and the various Iranian backed proxies. Would you advocate nuking Iran if Hizb’Allah fired a dirty bomb at Tel Aviv?

Obama should echo once again the basic principles he enumerated in Cairo. Looking back, Obama was already being careful not to voice too much “meddling” internationalism though I think he said the Orange Revolutions were a great idea.. He did however; sneak in our most essential liberties as something that could elicit promotion from the West should we determine regimes reject such essential rights. Obama was masterful in his complete contradiction. He stated recently form Europe that force is on the table with Iran. Note: there is a rumor that both the US and Israel may be "encouraging AQ in Iran" to hit Quds or elements of Iran's nuclear industry. The administration appears to understand it needs some leverage in light of the continual challenge from Iran, their proxies. If however AQ in Iran helped AQ in Gaza and succeeded in blowing up Carter, the irony would have been quite credible as AQ traces itself back to Carter! On the Pacific front Obama appears to be ready to publicly identify materials between NK and Iran and there is the possibility of interdiction. Asked why the unenforceable resolution was any kind of solution, the DOD said, it was an improvement over doing absolutely nothing on the interdiction front. I don’t believe that’s quite true either.

What Obama appears to be doing is setting up plan b with a weakened Ahmadinejad he can challenge with increasing international pressure. What has changed is that the a critical mass of Iranians like Obama better than their rulers. McChrystal and his working group is a formidable team sitting right outside Iran in Afghanistan. Since there is little of the Republican Party, Obama can co opt the more intelligent policies and continue to improve the ground realities and hit Ahmadinejad on the world stage. That was never something Bush pulled off. He was too bust correcting mistakes in Iraq and trying to convince Egypt and the Saudis, Iran was a real threat. If when the cold wind comes, Obama can find that most excellent suit, he's in business. Likely he will find it after some next attack which apparently Panetta think Cheney is praying for.......That is why, ultimately Obama can't let domestic issues become so partisan: it prevents the needed bipartisan meld on foreign affairs. He has to appear as remaining in the center of issues her and resolute in obtaining victories overseas. He's been pushing a Lefty pitch from the start (except for Afghanistan), while now seemingly moving to a more credible plan B.

As far as the Iranian bomb and your discounting the Iranian regime’s use of Jew hating, the IAEA just announced it feels Iran is seeking a nuclear weapon and delivery systems. With enough weapons and a population held hostage, this capability deters attacks for illegal activity and threatens against acts others may impose on said illegal activities. We see this in NK’s gambit. I think here Solar, we differ in to whom and how we assign motivation. While I have known for a long time how the majority of Iranians feel towards the West, the regime is the one in power, not the people. Same is true in NK and Syria.

Anyway, the Iranian people are not impressed with Ahmadinejad, but their rulers seek nukes and have flexed their proxies abroad recently to try and win political victories. Fortunately, there is still some will of the people as we also see in Iran today. The path to peace is to turn back Iran’s proxies, interdict their violations of international law, support the obvious Iranian sentiment for genuine rapprochement reaching out to Liberal Iranians while preparing as a stick a strike on Iranian nuclear assets after another round of sanctions should they fail. What is different now as this was generally the Bush plan? Iranians now know how dangerous and thoroughly corrupt their regime is. They suffer its tyranny and yes, even get beaten in their streets by thugs from Hamas..

Oh, And Solar, as for radiation, I suspect Pakistan, India, China, Israel have low radiation nukes. Ground zero is safe after four days. Iran would love them and so would NK. The dirty ones are more for deterrence. Both Iran and Saddam imagined the tactical use of nukes. Iraq today is considering suing Israel for destroying Saddam’s reactor.

There is a kind of consortium of nations involved in the Iran, NK network. The technology for WMD along with the attendant lethal radiological materials with no matching forensic fingerprint means asymmetry terrorism will reach a new and consequential threshold. You are kidding yourself if you think we could likely match a dirty bomb delivered by one of thousands of small subs or available drones. And don’t think AQ sees the irony in using a drone. That Solar, is the real immediate danger of Iranian technology. The Anti-Semitic ideology of Ahmadinejad and the clerics who support him are their political pathways into the Middle East and North Africa for increased Iranian operations designed to both spread the religio-hegemonic word of the Mullahs and more importantly, provide leverage and insurance against the retaliation and possible pre-emption by the West, Israel, Egypt, Jordan and Saudi Arabia.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/06/a-cloudy-transparency.html#comment-237185

Flatus
I don't respect them either if they have to sneak..Transparency is what we were promised!!!

"better stop with this lest I become a negative bore..."

Never Tony. You could never be a bore.
Besides, you're not saying anything that several million more people aren't thinking about.

Tony

Thats what is needed by you in order to stay at peace with it all. But not for the gay/lesbian community. They should keep educating the public. I do see some ( a lot ) of progress in the past cpl of years.

I also believe that having a lesbian for a daughter. Cheney took some of the sting out of it. I have argued that with one person that is so hung up on religion (that was he reason for voting Bush/Cheney) that he doesn't know how to answer it.

I saw where some Air Force Captain or something was let go cos he is gay. He did-or is writing a book about it. I see that as educating the public. I hope that he keeps it in the news.

"They should keep educating the public"

Don't you think these benefits he's extending to federal employees is another piece of that public education. A step forward in making people realize and expect that these rights will eventually be universal.

Bethy
So nice to read your comments today..Your still a teacher because you still teach me daily....I learn,I learn when your around....

PETA swatting the President for swatting a fly? Can anything be more absurd?

"Can anything be more absurd? "

No, nothing can Ivy.

Chloe --

Last time I checked, flies are not only pesky, they're dirty, and can spread disease. They are not a protected class of citizens. Even my grandmother who "wouldn't hurt a fly" put flypaper in the kitchen. (Talk about an appetizing item over the table - yuck!)

Chloe,Solar
Of course you are both right...When it comes to gay rights it really sadly has to be in dribs and drabs.I think as you do Solar its because of organized religion...I don't for see that going away in my life time but I do feel more and more people are thinking for themselves and rebelling against these organizations...Hopeful,yes...

If you knew how many flies I kill every day, you'd think I was a mass murderer. Maybe they don't realize how fast they multiply, (especially on horse property).

All those things you said are true Ivy. The yuck! and all. And we won't even get into maggots, speaking of yuck!

Ping:

You are probably onto something that Obama should of done healthcare as his first big move instead of the stimulus - then followed up with the auto-bailout.

But the economy - which became the number 1 issue in the election - the "biggest crisis since ... [the last thing we had to pass] and all that." You can't run on saying that and then tell everyone we're going to spend a trillion on healthcare.

Plus compared to healthcare - the stimulus was easy. There was a pretty broad consensus of economists saying it had to be done if not more.

I am glad Obama is engaging the doctors and the insurance companies. You might say what are the evil insurance companies doing at the table (not you Ping) - but we are going into the insurance business so we better get all the intell we can.

I have also not heard a clear and cohesive plan for healthcare. Obama is good at listening to a robust debate and then picking out the salient points. Of course you can't please everyone - but as hard as he works and as smart as he is - I am trust him to make those decisions more than most in DC.

And I am all for the auto-bailout. I think blue-collar jobs is the major issue facing out economy. So much of industry is being exported for cheap labor - or being replaced by machines. And those jobs are not being replaced by new ones.

So we were not in a position to lose millions more jobs from the crash of GM and Chrysler before we figure out a problem that no one has really even begun to talk about.

Tax incentives to keeps jobs in the US will help. But it does nothing to replace jobs that become automated and it is tough to compete with $1-2/hr labor with little and no benefits. I think healthcare should be pushed as a jobs progam.

We should be looking to "cut the costs" of healthcare. At least not in terms of the total amount we spend each year (17% or so of GDP).

We should seek to get more bang for our buck. In other words, spend the same amount of money - but provide more treatement to a larger amount of people.

Efficiency, cost-control on necessary treatments, insurance so more bills are paid, and tort reform. Not just cutting down medical malpractice - but cut down on insurers trying to get out of paying their bills.

"I do feel more and more people are thinking for themselves and rebelling against these organizations."

I think they are going to begin to lose some of their power Tony. After all, there's supposed to be separation of church and government. These are all very simple and important principles that need to be followed, regardless of select groups prejudice.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/06/a-cloudy-transparency.html#comment-237122

TIR

The only thing about MS coming out with an OS that will work first time out of the box is that you still have to buy the box in the first place.

MS has succeeded at one thing. They have successfully convinced me that the next thing I get out of a box will be an Apple.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/06/a-cloudy-transparency.html#comment-237141

KT

Thanks for stopping by. My muse has been incommunicado for about three months (or I just got temporarily burned out on writing) and I've just been doing filler until she returns and goes back to work. A few sparks have come up lately, so I may be ready to get my rear in gear ... May have to borrow someone's workaholic sister to jab as necessary.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/06/a-cloudy-transparency.html#comment-237195

IVY

I was admiring his reflexes. The way a fly's eyes work, it is almost impossible to come at them from one direction with just you hand and nail the critters.

They are very very useful creatures, but not in the house and not buzzing around my head.

chloe/ivy:

I think that stupid industry guy saying organic gardens will make the country less healthy is more absurd.

But I agree you can't get more frivolous than the fly. But it was pretty cool!

(Of course I am sure it will be added to Hannity's talking points about the media fascination with Obama. Kinda ironic (or perhaps predictable) coming from someone addicting to attention like Hannity...)

KT

Thanks for stopping by. My muse has been incommunicado for about three months (or I just got temporarily burned out on writing) and I've just been doing filler until she returns and goes back to work. A few sparks have come up lately, so I may be ready to get my rear in gear ... May have to borrow someone's workaholic sister to jab as necessary.

Posted by: jamie44.myopenid.com

I know the feeling. Other than that series of poems that were supposed to be a story, I've been showing up on the (page? screen? Take your pick) for some time now, not inspired but somewhat dutiful. That's why the music posts are good for me. A lot of free association.

"...someone's workaholic sister to jab as necessary."

Jamie, guess that explains you-know-whose dedication.

Fair's song for the PM:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iAjfTe5q8Y

A Kathleen Edwards cover of Dolly Parton's "Wildflowers."

Tony:

"I took from it that he wants the President to top worrying so much about being popular and just push his agenda."

No offense - but you and Bill are coming from the left. And as unsexy as it may be - politics is about compromise.

You can't just dismiss it as wanting to be "popular." The fact is - the conventional liberal agenda (which Dems of course pick and choose from with varying degrees of passion) - is not just "unpopular" to the right and some in the center. Rather people have genuine disagreements with some liberal policies. Some based on good reasons - some based on blind ideaology.

And you can't just say - go f-yourself to a large portion of the Country in order to be loyal to your base. That is what Bush did. He said I am going to please my base - instead of being pragmatic and willing to compromise. Patience is a virture.

I agree there are some issues that you must be unyeilding on. And I agree gay rights is a civil rights issue. And that is why Obama is not solely responsible for it.

There is a chance Olsen and Boies could make progress on gay marriage. I think they have a strong argument. And Obama has always said that he wants to repeal Don't Ask Don't Tell with Congressional support. So the gay community should not place all their attention on Obama - and let Congress of the hook.

And the healthcare debate upstream shows the importance of political capital. So Obama - as is his style - will spend it cautiously.

(And after 8 years of a knucklehead shooting from the hip - I am cool with that.)

Prior to the President taking office, I had high hopes for a transparent administration. Within the 1st day of the administration, I started to have doubts...the 1st clue was when the President had a 2nd oath swearing ceremony that was not open to the media....I started to think, this is so minor and he is hiding it...hmmmm....Now I realize that a transparent administration was only a HOPE FOR A CHANGE in politics....it's not going to happen!

I meant:

We NOT should be looking to "cut the costs" of healthcare. At least not in terms of the total amount we spend each year (17% or so of GDP).

We should seek to get more bang for our buck.

And I am glad Obama is taking his time with healthcare. This sh%t is complicated - and it is going to take time to hammer out a good plan.

(And although i have not heard a clear and comprehensive plan - K. Sebs does do a good job laying out a lot of points. We just need to figure out the cost and figure out how to pay for it and we'll be good to go.)

no lurkers nor listeners but non-participating readers........

npr's

"So the gay community should not place all their attention on Obama - and let Congress of the hook."

Warren
I agree.I do think though based upon what President Obama promised during the campaign its very hard for us to just let him off the hook so easily..I said it before what if LBJ had taken the dribs ad drabs approach to civil rights for blacks?Its really unacceptable to be so cautious where people's civil rights are concerned...Now the real world is a different story but I'm talking morally...

Tony

Religion is the real enemy. I promise that I won't go into a anti-religion rant here but. Once that I get out in the real world outside of my pc that is. Things change.

People ( most ) are not very good at figuring things out for them selves. They are happy to let the church of their choice do the thinking for them.

I tell them about evolution. They say that it is not true. I ask them why did god mess up an make a gay man-that is not in gods image. You see there is the rub.

They have to admit that he f ed up. They say ( some of them) that the devil made the gay man. I then ask them this last question.

We know that god made all things right. Yes. You say that the gay man was made by the devil. Yes. Than it is also possible that the whole universe and everything in it was made by the devil.

A complete silence comes over them. Then that was a trick question they say. What no answer in the good book-or church. I ask them to go and ask their favorite priest to give them an answer. They never do. I have a cpl more that is equally hard to answer .

Tony this is my way of educating someone. This particular person has now asked my about some other things that are so different from the things that he's heard.

This battle has to be won thru educating the public IMO.

See your Dolly Parton and raise you a Kathy Mattea

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFb4tg9vUGU

max:

"Mousavi probably won. He didn't win because people love him, he caught fire as the not Ahmadinejad vote. Sort of like the anti Bush mindset."

This issue of whether Mousavi won is what I was really getting at with my comparison to 2004.

(Despite some of my inflammatory rhetoric.)

There was a major anti-Bush mindset in 2004. This was when the Iraq war was really going bad - and the vitriol against Bush was papable on the left.

Like I said, it was the first time I really start paying attention to politics - and I thought Kerry had to win!

But people are conservative. Especially with politics. Kerry and Mousavi were both running against status quo candidates at a time when national security issues are at the front.

Even people who disagree with how Bush was handling things - were nervous to just hand it over to a new administration.

Change happens - but it isn't always easy - and sometimes its scary.

I am amazed to see the passion of the Iranians for a change. And hopeful for the future.

But in evaluating the results of this election - the perception is skewed. Coverage is driven by the youth on twiiter. And even though I'm sure millions in the cities voted for Mousavi - and are now flooding the streets in protest. But millions of millions voted for Mahmoud in the villages. Staying in their homes on their firms uncertain of what the future may bring.

So I am not shocked that A-jad one. I would've been shocked if he didn't. But I am still heartened by what happened in Iran.

(And I hope to God Allah and Yaweh** that the Supreme Leader over in Iran handles this situation well.)

**Buddah can pitch in too if he's not taking a nap.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/06/a-cloudy-transparency.html#comment-237213

Tony

Don't forget LBJ was a long term Representative and Senator. He held the position of Reid as Majority Leader. He knew where all the bodies were buried and whose short hairs he could twist. One of his most famous quotes is, "When you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow".

Obama simply doesn't have that kind of sway with Congress. Sure his part is in power and inclined to give him what he wants on the majority of issues, but the negotiations are going to be much more tentative than they were with an LBJ who could probably destroy almost any member with a phone call.

Tony:

You shouldn't let Barack of the hook. And I suspect he will do the right thing.

But I really hope the S. Ct. takes care of the gay marriage issue in one fell swoop. None of this state by state crap (like with slavery). The S. Ct. did it with inter-racial marriage. With one opinion and 5 votes - the S. Ct. can take this issue of the table.

I don't think Obama needs to create a right for you to get married. I believe your right is already protected under our Constitution.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/06/a-cloudy-transparency.html#comment-237214

Solar
I think your telling the truth.Its a truth I have known personally since I grew up going some to the Mormon Church...I applaud you for challenging folks with these questions..I have said to many people that believe in some form of organized religion that it requires a complete suspension in belief of common sense..

LBJ was cool. I saw one of his biographers on Charlies Rose and LBJ was quite an interesting (and impressive) guy.

Warren, to compare why people voted for Mousavi as compared to Kerry or how Kerry lost as compared to the Iranian scam is absurd. Will you get off this dead horse?

And as usual, you failed to address just a few of the reasons the vote was fixed. As far as Kerry losing, the anti-Bush crowd had not reached its zenith as Iraq was not lost yet. Kerry ran weakly to center instead of being the Enlightened Warrior Europe thought he was. His worse missed opportunity was the Madrid bombings, but that is a longer story.

suffice it to say that if you are still shocked Ahmadinejad "won", then you still don't get it.

Perhaps the problem is the media for you Warren, Just look at this sampling. Ranging from casual to serious…..

First is the BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8104466.stm
It depicts a rather peaceful situation and love of Mousavi...

Next is the NYT http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/18/world/middleeast/18iran.html?_r=1&hp
NYT talks about a crack down and connection to the IAEA statement which wrongly attributes WHY Iran seeks a bomb. More internationalist for a change and more forboding...

Then CNN “"We are fighting with our lives and the world is just watching," said Ali, a Tehran University student who requested his last name not be used. "They see how the government is trying to silence us, how they are beating us, but they don't come to our help. It's OK. We will succeed, even if we have to fight alone."

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/06/17/iran.elections.rallies/index.html Points out some obvious realities more Liberal papers ignore and the cry of crackdown on people protesting far more than an election scam....

And last perhaps the most concise and serious look

http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=6137

And they were the only one to say how important tomorrow for the PEOPLE of Iran tomorrow......

Gee,,,I wonder what the Shah would have done and whether Carter told the Shah the public would prefer he leave........

Warren,

Robert Caro's 3 volume (so far) biography of Lyndon Johnson is wonderful

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=The+Years+of+Lyndon+Johnson&x=9&y=27

He is working on the fourth (final?) volume to cover the VP and Presidency. If lucky we might see that one some time after 2010.

http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?parm1=5&docID=news-000003146274

Military is reconsidering ending the Raptor. I suppose the proliferation of targets and advanced air defenses is making this COLD WAR bird an advantage. In related news the US refuses to show the Raptor at the French Air Show as reports surfaced the French were hoping to discover the unique radar signitures with a system specially designed for such "friendly" snooping.

I guess those daily briefings has placed missile defense and Raptors back on the table.....

http://www.defensetech.org/archives/004887.html What the US has not been able to do,,,,,,,,,

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/06/a-cloudy-transparency.html#comment-237218

Jamie
Very good point!! The differences between LBJ and President Obama regarding there influence and power over congress are immense.Its just very hard to be happy with a President who has promised so much and delivered so very little in the gay rights area if you are gay..Patience is a virtue....

"So much for the quaint idea that the White House is the [flies'] house. It's only for the [flies] who get clearance and enjoy complete anonymity..."

(^_~)

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/06/a-cloudy-transparency.html#comment-237219

"I don't think Obama needs to create a right for you to get married. I believe your right is already protected under our Constitution."

Hey Warren
You and Jamie really break it down.I so totally agree I believe were fighting for rights that are already afforded us by the Constitution.I won't let the President off the hook but I must force myself to see things in the real world rather than morally..

I just came in from scooper-duty and, believe me, I know where those flies have been and what they were doing! For all we know, the White House fly flew in straight from a pile of Bo-poo.

See your Dolly Parton and raise you a Kathy Mattea

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFb4tg9vUGU

Posted by: jamie44.myopenid.com

See your Kathy Mattea and raise you an Emmylou Harris:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCCAZgI_hrE

I love Kathy Mattea. I'm kind of a half-a**ed singer myself, and we have about the same range.

max

Do you even read what I write?

(before u fly off the handle)

http://ncr-iran.org/content/view/6526/1/

Another news source disclosing the movements if the Revolutionary Guard in preparation for tomorrows rallies. This is not one of those pictures shown on America media outlets......

Well, compare this picture with the BBC.....

a little night music by Sam Bush and John Cowan. Sam is the mandolin player. This is a Little Feat tune called "Sailin' Shoes." Written by Lowell George and Fred Martin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPGUFxyirzg&feature=channel

Okay woman now you are playing for blood. All I've ever wanted is for Emmylou Harris to give me her hair.

If this doesn't take the pot nothing will:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cnieh0Y1V-o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kzIeY3NYl4

charleston harbor cruise at sunset.....

Kathy Mattea is a real favorite of mine particularly the recordings she did with Dougie MacLean while in Scotland. This is beautiful

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wv4Wpychxh8

"This issue of whether Mousavi won is what I was really getting at with my comparison to 2004.

(Despite some of my inflammatory rhetoric.)

There was a major anti-Bush mindset in 2004. This was when the Iraq war was really going bad - and the vitriol against Bush was papable on the left."

No, the War is goin to be Lost crowd was rejected by DNC leadership and Kerry did not run on the anti-war we hate Bush line. We didn't hear Obama mention his real postion in the convention speech Lieberman helped arrange. The Iraq war was to get MUCH WORSE. 2006 was the swing to the Left and the Iraq is Lost crowd. Bush responded by actually firing Rumsfeld, putting Patreaus in charge etc.

The question it seems is whether you read what you write. Kerry did not dispute the election results. To elevate YOUR uncertainty of the results in 2004 to the heights of Ahmadinejad's present coup is a bit silly, don't you think?

At least Obama didn't eat the fly.

The computer lost it's mind and then died. Now I'm baaack.

Obama is a politician. What else did we expect?

Repubs ARE the part of NO!

tt

Max

You called me crazy and some other complimenting things. When I said that there better not a fix about this. I still say it. Is he going to back track and throw Palestine under the bus now?

Israeli Officials: US ‘Flexible’ on Settlement Freeze Demand
Netanyahu, Mitchell to Meet to Work Out New Understanding

Members of the Israeli government are saying that despite repeated claims to the contrary, the Obama Administration is flexible on the question of a settlement freeze in the West Bank and that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu will meet with US envoy George Mitchell to work out a new understanding.
US Envoy George Mitchell

During last week’s visit to Israel, Mitchell reportedly promised that the US would not impose any sanctions on Israel for continued construction in the settlements, but tied US demands for Arab “goodwill gestures” to the nation making some sort of effort to rein in the growth.

The Obama Administration had previously demanded an absolute cessation of all growth in the settlements, saying it would accept no exceptions. The comments led to a series of frank dismissals from the Netanyahu government and public protests against US facilities in the nation condemning President Obama as an anti-semite and an enemy of Israel.

In the end, the US made it clear there would be no consequences for ignoring the demands, and after a few weeks of harsh rhetoric it seems they are poised to drop the matter more or less entirely.

http://www.haaretz.com/

Senor Fish,

I think you will like the water even more on the post just below your harbor cruise.

Tiptoe

Did you get the latest entrant for the Republican Hall of Shame ... Senator John Ensign

yup.....that's good water.....

here is what was said only a few days ago.

Obama Wants New Israeli Peace Policy by July
Protesters Rally at US Consulate Against "Anti-Semitic" Obama
by Jason Ditz, June 03, 2009

Scores of Israelis rallied in front of the American Consulate in Jerusalem today, voicing their disapproval at President Barack Obama, whom they labeled “the most anti-Semitic American president.” Their outrage stems from Obama’s calls for Israel to stop expanding settlements in the West Bank, and an apparent ultimatum presented to the Netanyahu government earlier in the week.

According to reports, Obama met briefly with Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak yesterday, and told him that he expects the Israeli government to provide an “updated position” regarding the West Bank settlements and its overall stance on the two-state solution to the conflict by July.

The Israeli government has repeatedly rejected the administration’s calls to halt settlement expansion, calling the demand “unfair” and insisting that they would continue the expansion as they did under President Bush, with whom they had “understandings.”

It has also previously suggested that it won’t support a two-state solution to the conflict with the Palestinians, and has mocked the Obama plan as “childish and stupid.” Israeli Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman has insisted that the US will accept whatever position Israel takes on the matter.

sheez lu-eeze max. I am making a comparison. I get that they are very different situations. And like most different situations - there are differences.

"As far as Kerry losing, the anti-Bush crowd had not reached its zenith as Iraq was not lost yet."

Maybe not with 51% of the Country. But 48% had very strong anti-Bush feelings. I was not a fan of Bush - but I respect the Office and was always taken aback by the anger I saw if I ever watched a State of the Union
with liberal friends.

"Kerry ran weakly to center instead of being the Enlightened Warrior Europe thought he was."

Mousavi was not the strongest candidate either.

"suffice it to say that if you are still shocked Ahmadinejad "won", then you still don't get it."

my post: "So I am not shocked that A-jad one. I would've been shocked if he didn't. But I am still heartened by what happened in Iran."

http://oxdown.firedoglake.com/diary/5808

turns out benefits to gay federal employees doesn't include health care...

great comments following the post

"Kerry did not dispute the election results. To elevate YOUR uncertainty of the results in 2004 to the heights of Ahmadinejad's present coup is a bit silly, don't you think?"

http://www.iwantmyvote.com/recount/ohio_reports/

http://fairnessbybeckerman.blogspot.com/2004/12/blackwell-locks-out-recount-volunteers.html

Again I am not saying that the same thing happened over here. But there are parallels that can inform what we are seeing.

And no there was no real protest in 2004. But we only have to look back to 2000 to see a real controversy. And I still catch sh*t on this blog everytime I say Bush was election in 2000 without any qualifier...

"The question it seems is whether you read what you write."

Usually 2 or 3 times. How bout u?

Okay woman now you are playing for blood. All I've ever wanted is for Emmylou Harris to give me her hair.

If this doesn't take the pot nothing will:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cnieh0Y1V-o

Posted by: jamie44.myopenid.com | June 17, 2009 8:42 PM

Now me, I've got a head start on the hair. Thanks to a silverhaired grandmother and a tendency on Mom's side of the family to go silver early--I just hope I can rock it like Miss Emmylou--

Meanwhile, I'm tossing a little something else in, to up the ante--

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TC-d2AkPqcE

Warren------In coming (three pages). This should drive Max nuts. Maybe just a short walk for him: HA! Right up your alley-very interesting

http://www.globalpost.com/home/afghanistan

Taliban leaders report progress in secret talks with the US and Afghanistan
Moderate Taliban make headway in negotiations with militants.
GlobalPost
Published: June 17, 2009 14:40 ET

KABUL — Moderate leaders of the Taliban say they have quietly and steadily made progress in third-party talks between the active Taliban insurgency and representatives of the Afghan and U.S. governments.

Two Taliban leaders — who held high-ranking positions in the now-deposed Taliban government and who are directly involved in the talks — say they’ve recently established a framework of an agreement through the shuttle negotiations. They say the process has included contact with the spiritual leader of the Taliban, Mullah Mohammad Omar.

The talks began last year under the auspices of Saudi Arabia and have involved a series of secret meetings in Mecca, including a gathering several months ago. Observers have for months maintained that the Saudi talks have produced more rumors than real progress.

But now, in extensive interviews with GlobalPost two former Taliban officials directly involved — Abdul Hakim Muhajid and Arsenal Rahmani — said negotiations have gained momentum and laid the groundwork for real movement.

Rahmani went so far as to say a deal could be reached before Afghanistan’s August presidential elections.

The Taliban insurgents would end attacks on reconstruction teams and stop shutting down and burning schools. The Afghan government and U.S. and coalition forces would agree to release a list of 100 prisoners who are being held on charges that the Taliban say are baseless. Assurances would be sought by the international community that the U.S. will stop random searches of homes and attacks that kill civilians.

All right. I just saw on tv I thought I would never see on tv.

A commercial for condoms, Trojans to be precise. The method? White gloves a la Marceau hold a packetwhich is obviously a Trojan pack - guess that's to give you time to get the kids away.

Then the white gloves tear open the packet and pull a make believe condom out. Then the hands put the make-believe condom on a make-believe penis.

Then the words come on and say, "It's almost as if there's nothing there." Actually, they say "like", but I hate that.

Pretty slick and creative, but omg.

Solar:

Obama is not backing down on settlements.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEmMQOx0Hwk

I suspect concessions will be made in other areas. And the hard right called Obama's foreign policy ideas childish and stupid during the campaign.

But his ideas are a lot more consistent with Scowcroft, Baker, Albright, Powell and other adults - than Bush, McCain and Lieberman.

And here is there argument in blunt terms:

We do not need to follow the "road map" and the written agreements with respect to settlements because we had an "understanding" with Bush.

Sorry Lieberman - but McCain didn't win.

Goodness, Bethy, what channels do you watch? :)

All right. I just saw on tv I thought I would never see on tv.

A commercial for condoms, Trojans to be precise~~bethy

YIKES!!!!!

What channel are you watching?

We've got Hubert Keller kicking butt on TOP CHEF MASTERS here. Freaks me out--I'm not a cook; I'm not gonna starve as long as there's a tin can in the world ;)--

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/06/a-cloudy-transparency.html#comment-237250

Bethy --

At least it didn't draw flies.

It was on USA, but the thing is that it was 6:45 pm here which is kinda called prime time, right?

Something just struck me - what else might we see those two white gloves applying or inserting?

Oh, yuck!

Warren - Thanks for the video. I do agree with you. Just that there are so many deals made that we don't find out until the last minute.

Dicey subject area. Reminds me of the time our school had an 8th grade girl who was very sick with toxic shock syndrome, and it was the talk of the school.
My last class of the day was a "slow" class, about 15 boys who were old enough to leave school but still in the ninth grade, and a few sweet girls.

Not surprisingly, this was the class that asked what this sickness was - they hadn't a clue.

Well, there's so little you can do with a class like that and it was frustrating. They literally knew almost nothing so there was nothing to build on, but I always felt one way or another, they had to talk or converse with me.

So, I just determined I wouldn't beat about the bush, and I explained in detail using ordinary words, beginning with girls' periods. They were dead silent - not one snicker or grin. They were entranced, and not questions afterward. I suspect it helped make them feel kinda proud to be told the truth, and I'll bet they knew more than any other boys and some girls in the school, maybe even some of the men.I had really liked those kids, wanted to teach them something - just anything - and that remains one of the most satisfying days of my teaching.

You can tell almost anybody anything if you treat them as if they are intelligent and worthy of hearing the truth and are realistic - no bs.

But not in a slick hollywood ad.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/06/a-cloudy-transparency.html#comment-237248

KT,

I'm a 65 year old natural brunette that I sometime brighten with a red rinse, but there is almost no grey, white, silver , blond nada zilch nothing. My grandparents finally started getting noticeably silver haired about 70 and finally had white hair by 80. So I'll just have to be patient or do a whole lot of bleaching.

And a little Bonnie Raitt just to sweeten the message

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2Kf-BZw1eI

Please tell me if I've posted this before.

Dicey subject area. Reminds me of the time our school had an 8th grade girl who was very sick with toxic shock syndrome, and it was the talk of the school.
My last class of the day was a "slow" class, about 15 boys who were old enough to leave school but still in the ninth grade, and a few sweet girls.

Not surprisingly, this was the class that asked what this sickness was - they hadn't a clue.

Well, there's so little you can do with a class like that and it was frustrating. They literally knew almost nothing so there was nothing to build on, but I always felt one way or another, they had to talk or converse with me.

So, I just determined I wouldn't beat about the bush, and I explained in detail using ordinary words, beginning with girls' periods. They were dead silent - not one snicker or grin. They were entranced, and not questions afterward. I suspect it helped make them feel kinda proud to be told the truth, and I'll bet they knew more than any other boys and some girls in the school, maybe even some of the men.I had really liked those kids, wanted to teach them something - just anything - and that remains one of the most satisfying days of my teaching.

You can tell almost anybody anything if you treat them as if they are intelligent and worthy of hearing the truth and are realistic - no bs.

But not in a slick hollywood ad.

Okay, thaat double post wasn't my fault. The site told me it had been rejected. I'm going to bed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jamie, I heard about the BIG hypocrite, REPUBLICAN who smashed Bill Clinton, Sen. Ensign. Oh such self-righteousness.

I've come to not blame men so much for being who they are. They're all pretty much the same when it comes to prurient interests. They're a slave to testosterone. They can't help it, it seems.

Yeah, it's that testosterone that attracts woman, no? It's a double bind.

Hadn't thought to keep the Corrupters & Evil Doers list going....but I've added Ensign.

tt

First Solar, if I called you crazy it was in a friendly way. You are one of the least antagonistic...stubborn maybe, but quite civil. Before I get to your comment, just note this: http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2009_cr/feingold061109.html

You were right in observing Pakistan comes before Afghanistan in terms of mechanics. Drive more Taliban back into Pakistan wouldn't have had a good outcome as Pakistan is still very iffy. What is Obama's Afghanistan strategy? McChyrstal and his team: The Afghan Dream Team
http://www.defensetech.org/archives/004881.html

Feingold objects to the General most experts including Obama describe as America's best. I can only wonder what the classified objection concerns. Note the plan this dream team hopes to implement: terminating the Taliban (with help from Tribal groups), reducing poppies, building infrastructure, improving economy/stability. The measure: how much safer we make the Afghani.

As far as Israel, please get the story right. Shall we go past the Biblical roots, the Balfour Declaration, Congress in 1922, Hitler and the Grand Mufti and the UN recognition of the Jewish State in 1948.

http://www.mythsandfacts.com/article_view.asp?articleID=100 Congress in 1922

Let's go to 1956 or better yet, 1967 when Israel was forced to pre-empt enemy air forces as Egypt and Syria crossed the established red lines as the UN popped pop corn. As a little child I lived next to U Thant . US/Israeli agreement? Lost territory would be exchanged only for real peace treaties and delay by Jordan, Egypt and Syria would cause creeping annexation in their captured land. This was and has always been often reported public policy and Rabin understood it well. In the Yom Kippur War, Kissinger demanded the Israelis not destroy the retreating Egyptian armies on the banks of the Nile. What price should Palestinians pay for their relentless quest for Israel's destruction?

Clinton created a map and a Palestinian State which Arafat rejected. Then the worst of terrorism followed by complete bankruptcy, Arafat’s failed leadership gave way to the PA which Sharon unilaterally conceded Gaza back to the Arab Gazans. They in turn voted the Iranian-lead Hamas into power. These guys blew up their own water and power lines from Israel facilities in order to increase the suffering Gazans presented to world media. They pointed the cameras and compared themselves to Jews at the hands of the Nazis. Forget the world imposed sanctions on Hamas for being a terrorist group. Do we need read their charter again?

The Arab AND Iranian regime's objection is for Israel to be a Jewish State? How funny is that? Is the game now to say that by Israel's right to exist, US administrations did not mean a Jewish Israel's right to exist? I want to see the intellectual acrobatics that will get you from a Two State solution so Palestinians aren't second class citizens in Israel to an OPEN To Return Israel governed in time by an influx of Muslim claiming to have once lived within Israeli territory.

By flood of people or by fire of destruction, anti-Zionist Islamists don't want Israel as a Jewish State to exist. Sure, that they privately say they would tolerate Israel is not so shocking, but to publicly declare the acceptance of Jewish State would be quite shocking. How strange when Islamists contemplate all States governed by Sharia.

To summarize, it is the US understanding all along, that Israel is compensated by 60 years of terror with the lines Clinton fashioned (near pre-1967 borders)with some territory from captured lands existing as legal settlements. The map drawn had been adjusted the accepted settlements marked and new settlements banned. Barak of Israel warned Arafat he’d pay a price if he chose terror, Arafat said no anyway (say Amen Reverend Wright) while later Abbas suggested he would seriously reconsider such an offer.

So why are you shocked when all administrations knew some settlements would remain? Did you think Israel should endure 60 years of terror and care take captured territory? Egypt made peace and all was returned including some valuable assets. Jordan made peace.
Syria? Assad's father had inflicted some pain in the Yom Kippur War and the son has yet to get the Golan Heights back. From there cruise missile would be difficult to stop. I guess you don't know what it is like living under such stress. Should that be a way of life for people?

I wouldn't be so sure, that Haaretz has it exactly right. The recognized settlements have a right to renovate but must stay within boundaries. New settlements are banned and Bibi will need the IDF to enforce the final settlement. Obama has not capitulated. I told you that Bibi is glad to be a whipping boy if it works. In the end, the Clinton map was where negotiations left off. I think Netanyahu can live with that formula with minor expansions to be compensated by handing over other parts of Israel territory. Rabin's formula of land for peace and a two State solution is the agreement between the US and the Jewish State of Israel. I might suggest Israel sue its enemies for 60 years of physical and mental harm in a useless campaign to eradicate it. Now Iran wants to pick up the Arab failure and drive a new round of hatred and Iranian hegemony only equaled by the aspiration of some Sunni Groups

Some things never change.

Jamie, the Republicans are improving. This latest blemish is still minor to Spitzer or Blago. At least it didn't involve pages or rise to the Edwards level....

Frankly I prefer adultry to corruption involving millions or billions.

Engsign is exactly the same as Edwards only a bigger hypocrite

goopers have a much worse history of far sleazier behavior

KGC, exactly!

tt

Yes, max, I'm all for adultery too.

I still don't get it. Why don't these guys man up and instead of saying "it was the worst thing I've ever done" say the truth? It was great! I loved every second of it and other stuff I won't say here.

tt

I agree bethy.

And your story kinda reminds me of how my mom was drawn to working with the developmentally disabled. She couldn't stand teaching regular college kids - and all their attitudes. Especially since she taught health and nutrition and many didn't take it seriously.

But once she started working at group homes - she always talked about how she loved her "guys."

"They're all pretty much the same when it comes to prurient interests."

Too true tiptoe!!

(although some of us are worse than others ; )

Thank you warren.

*smooch*

tt

Atlantic - The 30 political insiders you should follow on Twitter

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200906u/twitter-feeds

Thanks for the link, jamie. Some are very funny.

tt

The truth is that I don't particularly care about the sex. I just figure that powerful men are going to exercise that power with any woman who gives them half a chance.

I just assume men in that position have a mistress stashed somewhere and that more than likely their wife knows about it even if he thinks she doesn't.

It's when they attack someone for doing what they are doing (or thinking about doing) themselves that I get ticked. If they are that dishonest then theres likely to be hanky panky going on in the professional as well as private dealings simply because they are hypocrits.

tiptoe, quite right. Like Spitzer didn't enjoy himself. Edwards was so swept away he forgot his condom.....

Warren and Solar, the NYT with an interview with Juan Coles who is predicting bloodshed. I guess now Coles follows Totten who knows Quds is coming as cleric lay the relgious justification for shooting protesters.
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/totten/70392#comments

Still as Coles points out, Mousavi is a tough cookie and he knows he must juggle this surprising anti-regime sentiment against a personal history at odds with Iranian aspirations of liberty. This certainly is an interesting idelogical three way. At some point Obama may be forced to denounce coming bloodshed. Perhaps there is a reason for Ahmadinejad to be out of the country. When the Shah had his coup, he left the country until he felt is safe enough to return. The Americans and Brits dragged his ass back to Iran.

Agreed, jamie!!!

Yep, yep, yep....

It's the hypocrisy that gets me.

tt

Right, max.

tt

Wonder why ensign came forward now?

Probably had to do with being outted by the Hamptons.

tt

http://www.mediabloggers.org/mba-news/media-bloggers-association-creates-blogger-insurance-scheme

insurance for bloggers

Ensign claims he was being extorted by the husband of the woman he had the affair with, the man was a former employee of Ensign's senate staff and his wife was paid by the campaign committee

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/06/16/1967470.aspx

link to extortion claims

the good roger ailes as always has more on the ensign affair
http://www.rogerailes.blogspot.com/

"I think that many pundits insist on thinking about the Iran-that-was-five-days-ago, instead of the bubbling cauldron that it is today. The same mistake is repeated when people say that Mousavi, after all, is “one of them,” a member of the founding generation of the Islamic Republic, and so you can’t expect real change from him. The president made that mistake when he said that he didn’t expect any real difference in Iran’s behavior, no matter how this drama plays out.

I think that is wrong; at this point, Mousavi either brings down the Islamic Republic or he hangs. If he wins, and the Islamic Republic comes down, we may well see the whole world change, from an end of the theocratic fascist system, to a cutoff of money, arms, technology, training camps and intelligence to the world’s leading terrorist organizations, and yes, even to a termination of the nuclear weapons program.

I think that, whatever or whoever Mir Hossein Mousavi was five days ago, he is now the leader of a mass movement that demands the creation of a free Iran that will rejoin the Western world. And yes, the wheel could turn again, this revolution could one day be betrayed, all kinds of surprises no doubt await the Iranian people. Yes, but. But today, there is a dramatic chance of a very good thing happening in Iran, and thus in the Middle East, and therefore in the whole world.

I have no doubt that Obama is being told by his intelligence czars and wizards that the regime is going to win, that the disturbances are not all that serious, and that he’s going to have to deal with Ahmadi-Nezhad for the next four years, so he’d better be careful not to offend the poor dear. That’s what every intelligence service ALWAYS says in these situations. It’s what the Israeli Mossad is saying publicly, for heaven’s sake:

Mossad chief Meir Dagan estimated that the civil unrest in Iran will not continue much longer.

Speaking to the Knesset’s Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee, Dagan downplayed the significance of the riots, saying they are taking place only in Tehran and one other province.

Mr. Dagan, let us say, is phenomenally badly informed. The “riots” are taking place in every major city of Iran. Leon Panetta hasn’t made any public statements (bless him for that), but one will get you five that the CIA didn’t think there was any chance of this sort of all-out confrontation as of “election-circus day” and while they have no doubt hedged a bit since then, they still likely bet on a regime win.

Which is why I have a limited sympathy for Obama’s efforts to say nothing much, even though I don’t like it, and I think it’s a mistake on his own grounds. As I said last time, it’s wrong to think that your chances of getting a deal from your enemy is enhanced if you appease him. Reagan got lots of deals from the Soviet Union, even though he denounced it most every day.

As Obama discovered just today, America will be accused of meddling on behalf of freedom, even if we do nothing. And the accusation will have been true, in the most fundamental sense, even though the State Department raced to deny it. We are the symbol of freedom in the modern world, and those fighting for freedom against tyrants will intuitively invoke our name and our Constitution in their struggle. They are right, for the very existence of America threatens the legitimacy of the tyrants.

We meddle because we exist."

Michael Ledeen

I posted this because this incredible event may come and go without Americans understanding the enormous significance. When I read this, I saw Ledeen had expressed what I was trying to earlier with my comment that Obama has it half right at the moment. I hope he gets the second part right before thousands die.....

Shimon Peres on May 16, 2003

"Israel's government must implement the assurances it gave not only upon its recent election but also during its previous term, that new settlement activities will cease. This resolution was debated at the Knesset and approved, making it legally binding. The same commitment was made to the United States and must be fulfilled.

Since this commitment was made, several hundred settlements and outposts were created, and they must be dismantled. The so-called "painful concessions" pledge (by Prime Minister Ariel Sharon) cannot replace the real test of deeds."

http://www.obermayer.us/aer/articles/2003/LA0516Peres.htm

Supposedly, the MN Supreme Court will issue its decision tomorrow

http://www.politicsinminnesota.com/2009/jun17/3338/two-sources-supreme-court-ruling-u-s-senate-race-arrive-tomorrow

Solar, I saw your post. I recently posted an interview with the guy who trained OBL, Omar and Meshud. He is the great military teacher of Afghnaistan. Jamie read the post and agreed with him. In the article he said there really are no such thing as moderate Taliban. He said the only option is to negotiate with the Taliban which is something Obama said he would not do.

With McCHyrstal taking over, I suspect DOD will do anything now to flush out and terminate Omar and Meshud, isolate Taliban leadership while testing the various factions through third parties. The Taliban have used negotiations to exploit timing and opportunity. I think we are beginning to learn that game. If you think peace is coming to Afghanistan or Pakistan soon, guess again...

Of course I can wish, which I sometimes do..

max the optimist!!

"If he wins, and the Islamic Republic comes down, we may well see the whole world change, from an end of the theocratic fascist system, to a cutoff of money, arms, technology, training camps and intelligence to the world’s leading terrorist organizations, and yes, even to a termination of the nuclear weapons program."

And it will only cost several hundred thousand lives to accomplish. And a civil war of that scale ensures American involvement - and more blood and treasure in the Middle East. (And likely a halt to the Israeli-Palestinian peace process - as all focus would turn to Iran.)

Before we go recommending civil wars - we should remember the bloodshed of our own. A war fought because white men did not want to give up their slaves.

Sorry if I am not on the uprising bandwagon. And unfortunately a civil war in Iran - I don't think would have as civil an ending as it did here. (We were a democratic republic when it started remember.)

A civil war will kick one group out of power and insert another. The kicked out group will then become insurgents and cause unrest and bide their time until the next coup.

Sorry peeps - the only way for Iran to be a real democracy - is through a peaceful transition of power. Now or later.

A bloody civil war will only postpone demoncracy.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/06/a-cloudy-transparency.html#comment-237283

I agree Warren. The Right would argue Barak vowed Arafat would pay in his refusal by not getting the same offer the next time around. What is being argued is how many of those new settlements should be dismanteled. I side with with giving up the nw settlements, but only when security arrngments are verified and in place. I would not hand over land to any group professing the destruction of Israel. The settlements are a negotiating postion and ones before the Clinton map are understood to be legal.....

Tstorms here, hard rain but thankfully no lightning. Good sleeping weather. Nite all.

Max,

I've always wanted to ask your opinion on why we care about what happens in Israel. If you had to prioritize, is it cultural, economic or political?

I love T-storms!

Warren I will cherish you last post. It is one of the most amazing statements I have read here. I did read your words and despite our own history (you fogot our war against tyranny, you know General Washington), you would rather Iranians wait until some day for a peaceful transition of power. Even if that day will come after a nuclear exchange or even bloodier international crisis.

"A bloody civil war will only postpone demoncracy."

Truely amazing...Freudian slip there?

"A civil war will kick one group out of power and insert another. The kicked out group will then become insurgents and cause unrest and bide their time until the next coup."

This misses the reality of who is confronting who In Iran. The author of what you read, Ledeen is an optimist relative to the alternative. Quds murders Iranians, builds bomb and the pre-emption of their threat to others will cause wider conflict and greater proliferation. Mousavi's power is now built on the support of the people. He will either win or die and we are watching history.

Warren, you made Jefferson turn in the grave with that last one.

Rez:

I know you didn't ask me. But I would say American support for Israel is based on:

National Security and politics. Israel is a true democracy in a chaotic region. We need to spread democracy and can't be seen to be backing down to extremist Middle East regimes - while also trying to not be seen a attempting to dictate the internal politics of sovereign nations and attempting delicately maintain a role as an honest broker.

Cultural: There are blood ties to Israel. We also have given our word on many occasions to protect Israel - and we can't go back on that.

Thx Warren, I agree with everything wrote and only add that Israel is not unique in each of those aspect except geography.

max:

First off, Washington led a revolution against a colonial empire. We kicked Great Britains ass and they went home. If there is a civil war in Iran - where do the losers go?

And I admit I second-guessed myself upon typing the words you highlight. Because my brain lept to the same thought as yours - wouldn't the revolution eliminate the possibility of a nuclear Iran - and shouldn't that be the goal - no matter what the cost?

I don't think so. For a few reasons.

1. A revolution would lead to greater unrest in an unstable region. And we can't predict the outcome. What if the good guys don't win? (All those beautiful people in the streets don't have guns or tanks.)

2. I would prefer a peaceful transition of power in 4 years rather than a bloody civil war that will create memories of hatred and blood feuds that will last for the next 40 years and beyond.

3. There will still be a nuclear problem. Iran and other countries will continue to pursue them.

It is a debate that will not end tonight. I don't know if I am right. But I also figure that there will be plenty of people making your case - so I will make mine. And as always, we shall watch history unfold (again) before our eyes.

I love T-storms!

Posted by: warren

One last song for the night, Warren--

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMZ4amjbqhU

;)

My opinion Rezdog?

1. economic because Jews here who tend to support Israel (and some of Israel's capacity) have been incorporated into American resources and GDP. military and technological transfer and exchange has increased our security.

2. cultural because Jews are part of American culture and their sense of "rights" is part of our legal framework. Jews tend to support Israel and we in turn tend to support their historical narrative and their desire to preserve Israel.

3. Political, but I think that is based more on 1 and 2.

I would like to think we support Israel because we fight for the same values, but I must draw a distiction between Jews and Israelis. The former are not all the latter, but the latter are mostly the former. America supports Israel more out of our bond with American Jews than the familiarity with Israeli culture. This connection was strengthened by the configuration of the cold war and flow of oil from the Middle east (which might sound counterintuitive at first)

Max:

I like to think TJ is resting quite peacefully.

"Instead of that liberty which takes root and growth in the progress of reason, if recovered by mere force or accident, it becomes with an unprepared people a tyranny still of the many, the few, or the one." --Thomas Jefferson to Lafayette, 1815. ME 14:245

"Should [reformers] attempt more than the established habits of the people are ripe for, they may lose all and retard indefinitely the ultimate object of their aim." --Thomas Jefferson to Mme de Tesse, Mar 20, 1787. (*) ME 6:105

"More than a generation will be requisite [for an unprepared people], under the administration of reasonable laws favoring the progress of knowledge in the general mass of the people, and their habituation to an independent security of person and property, before they will be capable of estimating the value of freedom, and the necessity of a sacred adherence to the principles on which it rests for preservation." --Thomas Jefferson to Lafayette, 1815. ME 14:245

But of course then there is:

"Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God." --Thomas Jefferson: his motto.

http://etext.virginia.edu/jefferson/quotations/jeff1770.htm

good discussion all!! I gots to go do a little work. Thanks for the tunes K-T!

another night Wareen, I'm tired too. Good night but watch the historic events in Iran. There once was a time when the people courageous enough to fight for liberty was something we stood for. Fantatics with WMD are not in the interest of humanity's survival nor can free people stand by and watch the aspiration of liberty get slaughtered by tyranny. Better defeat pathology now than after it has the bomb. And that is the Mullahs protection. Pelosi cried about tibet and Carter moans about Gaza. Who cares about the Iranian people. Let them suffer another forty years until another generation forgets Thursday June 18, 2009.

Later.....

Oh, one last observation. Iranian officials said this. Now please tell me what Jefferson would have said as he fomented revolution in South America with not much preparation:

“We warn the few elements controlled by foreigners who try to disrupt domestic security by inciting individuals to destroy and to commit arson that the Islamic penal code for such individuals waging war against God is execution,” Mr. Habibi said, according to the Fars news agency." NYT

When rulers think of themselves as God, free people turn their backs at their own peril........

Some good race news for Barbaro's brother Nicanor.

http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20090617/SPORTS/90617051&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL

Thx Max for taking the time. I'll get back with you with some comments later and probably more questions. :-)

Tip -
The computer lost it's mind and then died. Now I'm baaack.

----------------------------
It's like falling over board from a cruise ship , floating in the water, watching everyone just sail away.

Speaking of cruising -

Sturg posts evenings on Charleston Harbor, (very nice by the way) .
All I can muster is me chopping weeds, and sounding like I'm Don Corleone about to fall over in the tomatoes.

Lubbock has a lot of "harbor envy" tonight.

How do the WH guests keep so secret? Where is the paparazzi? I guess the limos have pure black glass so nobody can see in, but aren't all big shots trailed by the photogs? As in when the limo picks them up?

Good point Dex.

I never thought the "T" in TMZ stood for transparency.

Thx for the tip on Nicanor, Ivy. My wife loves all stories about Barbaro. I'm headed to see if I can find a replay of his win.

The Big Garden - A Hard Row to Hoe

http://cbhopibluecornexperiment.blogspot.com/

You Tube's something else!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFxTN1krFuY

btw, one horse he beat: "Get a Lawyer" lol

Rez,

Here is the latest on the baby brother Lentenor

http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/nicanor/archive/2008/10/14/lentenor-update.aspx

Then there is this year's newest baby brother (no name yet) from La Ville Rouge and Dynaformer, plus there will be a 5th foal from the pair next year but the owners are hoping for a filly this time.

I've added another goal to the oven project. The design was perfected by woman named :

" Mária Telkes - was a Hungarian-American scientist and inventor who worked on solar energy technologies. "
http://cbsolaroven.blogspot.com/2009/05/maria-telkes-1900-1995.html
But as I proceeded along this project , I noticed that other words had crowded out Mária"s name, when speaking of this design. It's a " Slant Face" , or a " 60/40 " , or a " Box Cooker" .

Well folk's I'm building a Telkes Solar Oven . 50 years ago , Mária made 437 degrees with hers. Her name needs to be remembered.

Small things.

By the way -
Mária made 437 degrees with hers.

I'm going to beat that like a drum.

Thx jamie, I even love the replays