Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

yee hah!

(to the tune of hello dolly)

hello, doctor
i'm not well, doctor,
sneezing, barely breathing, got a fever you can tell.

rest assured, doctor,
i'm insured
with the elk, the duck and the two big blues

what's that you say, doctor,
they won't pay, doctor,
for my tests and pills and even your bills too?

here's my co-pay, doctor,
you can stay, doctor.
please don't ever go away
please don't ever stay away again.

Everybody deserves a hearing - that's plain and simple.
Altho I'm not for it, I think I want to hear what they have to say. I'm certainly in favor of coverage for catastrophic illness, and just think there could easily be more to be said. Why shut out people?

One of the reasons given for the Clintons' failure with
health care was that they left out too many people, including docs.

If Obama is really going to be this dogmatic, he is making a mistake, but it ain't over yet.

cbob, you sounded pretty blue on your posts last thread, as blue as your hopi blue corn. you okay? you should be walking on clouds with all you've accomplished lately... spreading corn from coast to coast, spreading the joys of art to texas, and just spreading wisdom thru out the universe on this internet.

heartfelt thanks from one of those twinkling stars... on second tho't maybe tonight i'll be a firefly.

"but it ain't over yet."

bethy, not by a long shot.... but so much to learn, to do and so little time.

Patd -
I'm crazy , and I'm blessed. Don't tease out any more than that.

And I've learned to write what I feel here.

Tonight , I think young Crawford needed my words, I have no way of knowing that, but it was time to tell him again.

and spreading good deeds even when they're unknown by you or the recipient.

this deserves an encore, cbob
"Sew a few days together, pretty soon you've got a life."

Maxtrue exaggerated slightly when he said that Dem's "routinely" scored Lazident Botch for his lax port security, and his well-documented insouciance regarding freighter nukes. I, for one, routinely scored Baby Botch on that count, however, I noticed that most Dems were far more concerned about the Botch Administration's plans to sell America's ports to the Emir of Abu Qaeda.

Criticism of his sale of our ports to a distant cousin Osama bin Ladin put Baby Botch's back up. He countered angrily that it would not be in the "enlightened self-interest" of the beloved Gulf Despot to lose any of his valuable American ports. As we all know, the doctrine of enlightened self-interest is the only thing that prevents the Emir's other distant cousins from strapping on bomb belts and boarding Israeli buses, or flying jetliners into American skyscrapers. Yessir, whenever I hear anyone invoke the doctrine of enlightened self-interest, I always feel a wave of confidence wash over me, don't you ?

Maxtrue also insinuated that Dems had lowered port security. Actually, he used the word 'expenditures' to make us imagine that we were now less safe.* However, as any republican will tell you, when they are not discussing their own profligacy, "You can't solve a problem by throwing money at it." In fact, the Obama Administration has cut expenditures by eliminating much of the Botch Administration's redundancy, waste, fraud, bidless contracting, abuse, and excess nepotism. Under the Obama Administration, America saves millions of dollars in port security costs every day, simply by allowing passengers to board cruise ships with tweezers.

Sweetie and I learned all about this in 2003, when my dearest and I embarked on a vacation aboard Carnivore Cruise Lines. Sweetie was briefly detained, and relieved of 21.5 pounds of her most dangerous cosmetological WMDs.** The little boxes of eyelashes were particularly worrisome. But fortunately, the vigilance of the Botch Administration saved the entire Northern Hemisphere from the deadly Eyelash Plague, and the near certain extinction of humanity as we now know it.

* In our posts, both Maxtrue and I have utilized a judicious amount (the recommended dosage) of hyperbole, in our efforts to keep America both awake and vigilant.

** It should be noted that no actual human beings or domesticated animals were either killed or maimed in our efforts to board the cruise ship, S.S. Phantasmagoria. At the end of our safe journey, all of Sweetie's deadly personal effects were cheerfully returned, no questions asked. However, her eyelashes had been exterminated, because you never can tell.

I owe a lot to this phony thread world, where we cut all comers to the bone.

And then, Jamie hands Old Sea a kindness , the likes of which , I've never seen. How sweet. My corn withers and dies before it.

well, this lightening bug's dimming, the fire is flying away...

Personally , I think we should all band together, and invest in that internet kitten helmet.

You can't type mean with a kitten on your head.

Cbob- It's true, Jamie's overwhelming kindness shown is something I'll NEVER forget, you all don't know cause we're typing here but I cried more than not just thinking about all she has done.
But please don't belittle the great experiment. If you recall, which I'm sure you do and was your motivation, at the time you created the GREAT experiment things pretty much sucked around here. Lots of illness, family deaths, no money, no work, economy in the tank and a miserable winter. Then along came CBob and you rallied the troops ,gave us all something else to think about and gave us hope for a new season. Thank you Cbob!

I just separated two drunken idiot brothers from fighting and got the police off my front porch. Now I'm out of smokes.

Some other cool stuff I Learned because of Craig Crawford -

A moral compass is not something you carry alone.
I knew this long before the net, but being reminded of here was most refreshing.

My moral compass has a very bent needle, it's covered with rust, and the pillar it floats on is about to fade away.

Crawford's moral compass is " Ship shape, and Bristol Fashion". It's really very good, even as the pole drifts off to Siberia , Crawford's needle points toward true North.

The lantern is hanging in the belfry of Trailmix Tower to guide the night owls to come post their thoughts on single payer stuff and Medicare ideas...I will be manning the Night Watchman Guard Tower , fully armed, to ward off rodents and trolls, but I hope relief comes quickly, as I am beat from yard work and a long bicycle ride and helping a large group of my friends transfer from a web site that is about to crash into another site that welcomed us with open arms...a couple Aussies with extremely good manners. This group frowns on politics...we're just trying to stay sober.
June 4 will mark 6,000 days off the sauce for yours truly.

Hear, hear! You are a fine writer Cbob.

I learned to listen to the other side, specifically Karl Rove from Craig. It was a new concept for me..

Congrats Dexter! Wish my boys would do the same.

Old Sea -

I watched , and I was never more proud of anyone. I was proud because we learned this tool at the same time. Jamie welds it like Thor's Hammer now.

She's America's #1 web based teacher.

She is as you so well put "a force of bandwidth" , absolutely brilliant.

Old Sea -
She's crazy for lists. I have never joined one of them . I don't pick horses with her, or Oscars, or the color of next years Ford with her.
But she's the cool sister I never had.

I was supposed to be off getting manure for the corn tonight but the crew went a drinking instead. Am sorry to not have it done by now, cause it looks like I'll be sowing in a dark moon. Not auspicious.

Ah that's sweet.

How's your Dad doing Cbob?

Old Sea -
I rail against my demons, both small and large. It's a house of mirrors, always has been. I never put them to rest. Guess what , I'm another fucking man.

But learning about Chuck's great grandfather on Sunday has turned my head. I picked up an Indian infection long ago, even though I'm 350 years of poor white trash. I teased about rabbit pills here , but those pills feed right into everything I'm doing. When I was 21 , I bought into this stuff easier. This Blue Corn thing makes a lot more sense now, I didn't pick it, It picked me.

we all got demons.
glad you listened to the corn. not everybody does, you know.

Old Sea -
A result from the experiment -
Craig Crawford knows about the Hopi creation myth, and a small hole found in every kiva, that represents that myth.

Anybody besides Craig, and me know the name of that hole ?

Hint :
New Mexico has ski area named after it,

I am always amazed when people denigrate the British and Canadian Health Systems on the basis of anecdotes about people dying while waiting for care. Don't they realize that the very same thing happens here ? These folks talk and write about "health care rationing" as if we don't ration health care in the US.

When I had a diabetic heart attack and other problems some years back, the bills mounted up to $125,000. Fortunately, I had excellent insurance. As soon as it was able to, my insurance company dumped me. I was on COBRA for a year and then was able to get insurance through Minnesota Cares, which places certain uninsurable people like me into the MN public employees insurance pool.

A year later, I had cancer. 4 years after that, I had to get several cervical vertebrae replaced and the others reemed out. Steroids I had to take made me sick and dehydrated, so I ended up in the hospital yet again. Over 5 1/2 years I racked up $225,000 in medical bills, about what the average American family earns in that amount of time. How can uninsured people come uo with sums like that ?

My medical care costs - insurance and co-pays, and uninsurables - cost me about $7,500/year - if I don't have a hospital stay. How can people pay such sums if they work at unskilled jobs ?

When we were in Philly last year, I worried that I would not be able to find a replacement for Minnesota Cares. By chance (for me) the executives of the Philly organization I'd joined decided in a moment of fiscal angst that their collections did not need a curator after all. I immediately shot back to MN, before Minnesota Cares ever knew I was gone. Luckily !

But what about people who don't get health benefits through their employment ? What if they experience one catastrophe after another ? What about the millions of people who are now out of work, and losing their insurance ? Uninsured people postpone getting health care. Sometimes people die while putting off going to the doctor, which is a form of waiting for health care that we impose on certain people. The mortality of uninsured people is greater than that of insured people. Isn't that rationing, too ? Are poor people supposed to die as a patriotic contribution to the rest of the nation ?

Mr. Johnson,

Congratulations on 6,000 straight daily victories !

Good health, good fortune, good words, good wishes, and good night to you all.

sipapu!

Old sea -
That giant garden I fell into this spring is being done by sick people, and people caring for even sicker, people. I did not plan one moment of it.
it came in on those rabbit pills I got from Chuck, the great grandson of the guy John Wayne hunts in the "Searchers".

It's where all my jibberish about "Big Medicine " has been coming from.
I drove around until I found Chuck. Nearly 2 years ago. All I wanted was some rabbit pills.
I haven't been sharing what people are telling me when they ask for seeds. I had 2 more requests yesterday. It's pretty cool.
I mean we've all fallin' in love with Ct's place, even if she never grows a kernel. And there's smiling "Corn Dogs" at Las Cruces.
All of this has to complete with pictures of cats on the internet. Which, by the way has invaded my site , yes we could not beat them, so we joined them ....... cat pictures on the internet conquered my Hopi Blue Corn site.

And they are way more adorable than my sinkin' stalks of corn.

Jamie -
A word about 45,000 year old art, and it's death. There is a cave in Spain, much better than the one we all know that is dying in France.

It is called Altimara ..... it is the high point in art history, no artist was ever better.

http://images.google.com/images?ei=yH4KSs64GZbCMvbnrNQL&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&newwindow=1&q=Altamira&resnum=0&sa=N&safe=off&tab=wi&um=1

One bison from Altimara -

http://www.coolhunting.com/images/0013AltamiraBison.jpg

There are hundreds of these.

That bison is 50,000 years old.

A 50,000 year old horse.

http://www.nynetresources.org/Future%20Grant%20Projects/Projects/Art%20Analysis/Art%20Web%20quest_files/cave_painting_horse.jpg

Is the name of the hole in the Kiva called a sipapu, by chance?

I started to say a Taos but then I remembered Sipapu. That sounded more like the Hopi language.

No artist ever did better, ......... . 50.000 years ago -

Another bison from Altimara

http://travelblog.bcaa.com/wp-content/altamira-painting.jpg

There is no quiz that this crew cannot conquer.

Sipapu is the winning answer. Sipapu is a small hole in the floor of every kiva.

Now go read about the myth .

There are several thousand kivas in the southwestern U.S. Hell, they maybe tens of thousands of them. Built over several hundreds years, over hundreds of miles.

Everyone has a Sipapu hole in it.

The best Kiva in the U.S. you can just get off the interstate and climb down into it, Is just up the road from the Imus Ranch, off I -25.
At the Pecos ruins, a fine old church there was well ...... 10 ft thick walls, red as the earth can be. When Coronado , came in 1540, Pecos was the fattest place in New Mexico. Buffalo hides going west, corn, pots, and volcanic glass going east into Texas. When the Spanish , cut New Mexico up and taxed it, Pecos was still the richest of all the pueblos, the great up rising in 1580, it was the bloodiest place.

The great Kiva there is completely restored, when you climb down the lodge pole ladder , it's the same hole Coronado, and Kit Carson climbed down. It's a big one too. It's a 20 foot ladder to the floor.

Pecos was a trade town, it had a small rock wall that circled the whole thing. Maybe 2 feet tall. At sunset, if you didn't live there, you had to be outside that 2 foot wall. We have the Spanish tax rolls where thousands of bushels of corn are stored at Pecos, waiting to go east into Texas as a trade good in exchange for hides off the plains.

Small Pox killed everyone of them, .. by 1840 Pecos was a ghost town on the Santa Fe Trail. The first white woman to go west on the trail left a wonderful diary entry of it. It's a great place, just off the interstate.

Here's that red church -

http://www.jqjacobs.net/southwest/pecos.html

Sorry , I missed my revolt by 100 years, it came in 1680.

Franciscan Friar Andrés Juárez arrived at Pecos in 1621 and directed construction of the 'Nuestra Señora de los Angeles de Porciuncula de los Pecos' church, the largest Spanish colonial structure north of the Mexican border. The Natives destroyed the church during the 1680 Pueblo Revolt.
It was never rebuilt.

Pecos also set the pattern for southwest in modern times -

" Archaeologist Albert Vincent Kidder brought the fledgling science of archaeology to Pecos in 1915. Kidder tested the theory of stratigraphy on the Pecos trash middens. After 12 field seasons, he had established a relative chronology for the American Southwest based on ceramic variation, in styles, materials, and techniques. At the 1927 Pecos conference, he and other scientists established the classification sytem still in use today, from Basketmaker to Puebloan periods. The Pecos Conference tradition continues annually. "

The completely restored great Kiva at Aztec New Mexico -

http://www.jqjacobs.net/southwest/images/aztec_great_kiva_interior.jpg

http://www.jqjacobs.net/southwest/images/aztec_great_kiva_roof.jpg

nize kivas, cave art, words, word pictures and sipapus in the floor.........enjoyable all the way...........

how deep do the sipapu go?

moral compass.............gotta get me one of those.......this "Law of the West" thing is wearing thin...............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-yBPD0NZO8

C-Bob, you were very profound last night. Actually very heavy. No he's not heavy, he's my brother......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1KtScrqtbc

Thanks for holding up the night shift.

"I just separated two drunken idiot brothers from fighting and got the police off my front porch. Now I'm out of smokes."

oldsea, hope sots and cops didn't trample the sacred blue. and you're so right about "Then along came CBob and you rallied the troops ,gave us all something else to think about and gave us hope for a new season."

a toast of toasted coffee beans to cbob and to those blessed rabbit pellets.... hip hip hooray! let's hear those huzzahs, folks, for our friend and for the sacred shit that leads us all to better understandings.

"Congress declared war on Mexico on May 13, 1846 after only having a few hours to debate."

(must have been a friday and they had to make the next train to shmooze with the folks back home)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican-American_War

Yea haw Cbob and a thousand atta boys!

and C-Bob, everyone may not appreciate our profound country wisdom here but today, as I think of your solution for old people, I will be cutting a giggle. They may try to slip me one of those antipsychotic pills we like to hand out at our place.

Santa Ana: ( or anna)

http://www.sonofthesouth.net/mexican-war/santa-ana.htm

Many people here who have insurance through their companies who have increasing premiums, increasing co-pays, and who don't go to the Dr. until it what could've been easily treatable is now difficult to treat? I count myself among those people.

Meanwhile, the "tea party" folks are actually dialing it in. Jeez.

Preakness: Calvin Borel's horse (they had him listed on two horses earlier this week; a good trick) Rachel Alexandra

Craig ... Single Payer - Single Focus?
We all want our cake and eat it to.... But Who Pays?

Obama RUSHED so many other elements and spent so much money as we strolled the Mall of wants and needs - that now he comes to the little shop of Health Care and guess what - He already maxed his credit cards...

What is a President to do?

Those of us who shared our skepticism of the "pledge"
by the health care industry to slow the growth of health
care costs are not alone.

"Reminders on Health Reform" NYT

The pledge to cut $2 trillion over the next decade---

"It was a promising development, but probably not
the 'watershed event' that Pres. Obama had proclaimed it. So far, all we have is a vague and
unenforceable promise that may never materialize."

"Skeptics are right to be worried that the health industry
leaders are primarily trying to head off strong federal policies and regulations by making toothless pledges
of voluntary action. None of the health care groups have agreed to accept any particular cuts. "

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/13/opinion/13wed1.html

"strolled the Mall of wants and needs"?

hey, cut that out..............lol

Holy Cow folks!!! I tune in for my flint hearted, cynical daily rant at the powers that be and find I've been elected St. Jamie. Thank you one an all, but please I really do believe most people operate from self interest.

This whole project has been fun and personally rewarding. I'm having a ball doing it. If it is a success it will make me very happy. That something good and right will have been achieved is even better.

Oh and as a look at CBob's Hopi Corn page will show, the kittens are no longer helmet sized. It is equally hard to type mean words when a cat licks your nose.

Continuing to champion the "single payer system" Rep. Dennis Kucinich on NPR argued that the administration plan is an "unconscionable rip-off of the American people....This is a bailout of the insurance industry."

He said that the 'savings' claimed are simply a diminished rate of profits for insurance companies and that:

"People should not exist for the healthcare companies, healthcare should exist for us".

http://briefingroom.thehill.com/2009/05/12/kucinich-slams-obama-healthcare-savings-unconscionable-rip-off/

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/05/singlepayer-health-care-advoca.html#comment-227449

Blue,

Borel is Rachel Alexandra's regular jockey. He rode her in the Oaks. He was only on Mine That Bird because she wasn't running in the Derby. Mine That Bird will now be ridden by his New Mexico jockey Mike Smith.

Bob's wonderful comments from last night deserve a special place of honor.

In my own experience, eight or nine years ago I was sick. I mean really sick. The kind of sick where you hide so that predators won't take advantage of you.

I was lying in bed looking our the bedroom window (I was at home). Comfortably sitting, twenty feet above the ground, were my mother, grandmother and a close family friend, all of whom had passed on years before.

They had a somewhat animated conversation, looking at me, and then just sitting back in their rocking chairs sizing the situation up. They conferred with each other one more time, stood up, waved goodbye, and departed.

Clearly, my time had not yet arrived.

If they had decided otherwise, it would have been no big deal; it was clear from their presence and demeanor that I had absolutely nothing to fear.

An hour later I was out of bed serving Thanksgiving dinner to our family and guests.

Everybody let me know who you want

Big Drama John Velazquez 18/1
Flying Private Alan Garcia 20/1
Friesan Fire Gabriel Saez 6/1
Patd General Quarters Julian Leparoux 9/1
Luv Gov Jamie Theriot 30/1
Mine That Bird Mike Smith 5/1
Musket Man Eibar Coa 8/1
Papa Clem Rafael Bejarano 8/1
Jamie Pioneer of the Nile Garrett Gomez 7/2
Renee Rachel Alexander Calvin Borel 19/10
Take The Points Edgar Prado 22/1
TBA TBA
Terrain Jeremy Rose 25/1
Tone It Down Kent Desormeaux 30/1

It time for Obama to serve the American people . Everyday its more & more to help the undeserving rats who are already having their way in this country..After all this spending & now strapped with a mountain of debt they have the nerve to say ss is going broke ,this is not what we voted for.

Ping.... But Who Pays?..... how bout ALL of us....

patd.... funny how 2 people can read the same thing and yet see it differently.... I saw CBob's ramblings as being happy and grateful....

CBob... I will be planting my corn very soon ....... and all your ramblings have made me long for another visit to New Mexico.... the desert does sing out to this spider woman very strongly from time to time....

and one of the reasons for that visit would be see an old friend..... Stephen McFadden.... the man Sturg quoted last night on the Hopi.... he lived down the street here for many years..... he was one of the best organic gardeners I've ever known..... his wife died of cancer a few yrs ago.... he sold the house to another good friend of mine and moved to Santa Fe..... I really miss him....

Craig.... I linked to that hearing 2 days ago.... it happened last week....
what took you so long..... :0) :0)
I am very disappointed in Obama's performance on healthcare so far.... here's hoping for real change real soon.....

The expansion of Medicare to those over 50 could actually benefit Medicare since premiums now paid to insurance companies would go to Medicare instead, but only if it were Universal. Otherwise, you have the nonworking, sickest of the sick dumped on the taxpayer while the insurance companies continue to clean up on profits from a large pool of healthy subscribers.

Wind Farm okayed for off shore of River Thames

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/may/12/wind-farm-electricity-london-array

Flatus....
and heaven's loss was our gain.....

Jamie....
them cats are cute...... but not as cute as mine.... ;)

Ping,

You ask who pays?

Let me say this one more time. The amount of money we can save by adopting a single-payer system would pay for our national defense. We would be saving more than 5-percent of our gross national product.

Instead of paying the insurance companies for broken promises, we would be paying a government contractor that would pay providers based on standardized DRGs and reimbursement schedules.

It works for Medicare and it works for Tricare. It can work for the entire country.

Everybody has to participate, no exceptions. If individuals wish to pay for additional services, fine. But, they will participate in the single-payer system.

Providers will be free to practice medicine.

We will get preventative care that hopefully will reduce future hospitalizations and debilitating disabilities.

Everyone must participate. No exceptions. That's the only way we can make the program fiscally sound.

We can do it and it will benefit everyone.

c-bob...thanks revitilizing us with the Hopi Creation. Many of the creatures of the myth are living close to the blue corn in our yard. One of my friends here, remembers when her grandfather used to grow blue corn in Las Cruces. She is a young (24) Hispanic woman and was delighted to hear about the corn project...she also is a big fan of Bologna.

BW, do you want to try riding that horse that ran like hell last time--the one that said, I own the fence, the track, and the race?

"I saw CBob's ramblings as being happy and grateful"

renee, they were, but off in the distance one could faintly hear the plaintive sounds of an hopi muscian on his flute.... especially when cbob spoke of "young crawford" needing a good word

btw, anyone notice that our typepad key symbol has been replaced by a dot? why?

Hi Flatus! I'm ready for a run like that!

mornin'

"As President Barack Obama provokes a debate on health care reform, why not listen to those who advocate guaranteed health care that is not dependent on private insurance companies?"

Why not indeed? What's listening to them gonna hurt? The fix is already in. I think the best we can hope for is the paltry cost savings promised by the HC industry bigwigs (none of which will you notice, by the way), and maybe some variation of Medicare to cover catastrophic expense for those who don't have or can't afford private insurance.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/05/singlepayer-health-care-advoca.html#comment-227419

XR, you get a standing ovation for that post.

Coreen, kudos for Dennis.

Ping, wrong question. Question is, "Who gets paid?"

Good deal! Jamie! Put us on Mine that Bird!

yeah ping... follow the money... to the trough of ins. big profits

single payer, single payer, single payer, single payer, single payer, single payer, single payer, single payer...

Send this message to Washington and tell them to get used to it!

Renee,

No one's cats are as cute as your own. :-)

Why are people protecting the profits for insurance companies? Insurance companies???? The same folks whose whole existence is to deny medical care and make money.

KGC...

Spot on...insurance bandits...as bad as pirates.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/05/singlepayer-health-care-advoca.html#comment-227456

Flatus -- Your story interests me greatly. The last several days before my father died, he had lengthy conversations with both his dead parents, as well as his brother Jim, also long dead. It seemed to come and go...sometimes they were all there and sometimes not. I missed the last conversation, but Mother said his last statement was to his father, and he said, "All right. Will I need my cane?" Then there was quite a pause and he said, "Well, good. I won't bring it then."

Flatus:

You are probably onto something with this single-payer thing. Your posts make common sense and you speak with a certitude that rivals Cheney!

But I suspect single payer is something that we will end up doing 20-30 years from now - and then saying - jeez - why the heck didn't we do this earlier??

And if the prospect of a voluntary, vague and toothless promise to stem the growth of health care costs is not enough---here's another idea that is hanging out there-- (OD mentioned it recently)

"Will Obama Tax your Health Benefits?"

"Now that Baucus is putting taxing health care benefits on the table, the Obama White House is keeping its distance from the concept while being careful not to reject it out of hand."

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Business/Story?id=7562814&page=1

flatus, you're making way too much sense. :-)

Here's part of what people are missing in this discussion. Administrative savings are fine, and depending on who you ask, would range from 5 to 10% of the total amount of the cost of healthcare currently administered by private insurers. What tends to go ignored is that the profit of the insurers that currently are a part of the cost of healthcare would become savings to the system if there were a single payor.

There is another dishonest side of this debate - mentioned above - which is that care is rationed and delayed under a government plan. Bullshit. It doesn't have to be rationed or delayed any more than it currently is - and you and folks on MC/MC/VA would know better than Ping or I know whether care for actual illness or injury is delayed or rationed under govt payor systems. It certainly was not at the hospital I worked for. The hospital might have had to fight for its dollars, but the care needed was provided.

There were exceptions, particularly regarding the level of care that chronic patients should be receiving, but there was no difference between MC/MC and private insurers in that respect. There were also protocols and criteria to guide what lelvel of care should be provided.

And finally, the bullshit about Canadian healthcare is just that. A very good friend of mine was a McGill med grad orthopod who practiced in that system before coming to the states. He did say that he did not liek having a government worker decide which patient got treated when - but it was for elective procedures that such decisions were made. Acute injury and illness was treated just as it is here. Some things we call elective would be rationed, or at least scheduled differently than they are now - because there is a limit to the capacity of ORs and docs, and that care has to be, and is, rationed now - by the docs. And I can tell you that they schedule the patient whose insurer - government or private - authorizes the procedure first. It's a stupid system, and anyone who thinks that there's much uniformity in the process of preauthorizing "elective" care is dreaming.

I could go on and on, but let me tell you that most folks who are arguing this don't even know how the system they advocate as better than the alternative works now, much less how either system would work if the government became a player in the larger system for regular folks.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/05/singlepayer-health-care-advoca.html#comment-227459

nope, RR, the hearing in the video above was yesterday, not last week.. http://tinyurl.com/opybh2

flatus, patsi...thanks for sharing...the spiritual plane of dying is a fascinating process. I understand the physical body dying, but I was introduced to the spiritual side of death and to me it is amazing. This month is the anniversary of the passing of my parents and although they had wonderful lives, I remember their last week more than anything.

Pogo:

Very informative post. I think what you are saying makes the "pure politics" of Frank Luntz all the more frustrating.

Without educating himself or his followers about the substance of the issue - his argument is that any change to the status quo will cause the sky to fall.

Just like the bogus socialism arguments - they scare people into thinking that healthcare reform means we will all be waiting on "bread lines" to see our family doctor.

Coreen, AHAH! Taxing health care benefits - another piece of the puzzle, and let's guess which camp this is a problem for... Assuming that at some point in the future we come to our senses and simply the tax code, that might drop off the radar. I expect that the congress will end up with something that looks like the way retirement accounts are taxed - if the benefit is a result of a payment with taxed money made by you, it is not taxed when the benefit is received. If the benefit is a result of untaxed dollars or dollars froma third party, it is taxed.

Blonde...I wasn't there when my father actually passed...but Mom's head was in my lap when she died ten years later. This sounds like BS, but I physically felt something leave her. It wasn't a wisp of smoke or anything, but it was most certainly a presence. It lifted up kind of around me and then hovered there. It was a wonderful, peaceful few moments. My sister had called the EMTs and they arrived minutes later, moved me to one side and started CPR. And I felt that presence leave the room.

They took her to the hospital where they even applied electro shock to her chest -- despite the fact we didn't want that...wonder how much all that cost Medicare...for an 83 year old woman who had -- like Elvis -- already left the building....

However, I feel both parents often, to this day, and my father died in the late '70s.

How do shut-up a republican?

Keep everything the same.

Patsi, I remember it as well as if it was two minutes ago. I have absolutely no doubt that it was real--not a dream. And I know beyond any doubt that I have nothing to fear in my demise.

It's clear to me that your father is in welcoming hands.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/05/singlepayer-health-care-advoca.html#comment-227481

Pogo, spot on analysis. I am in the VA system. I broke my ankle last Oct. I went to the clinic and talked to the emergency room nurse. She looked at my ankle and sent me to X-ray. I, then, was sent to an Orthopedic guy that gave me one of those foam walking boots and a script for generic Vicadin. I also got crutches. The clinic made an appointment for me to go to the big hospital in Dallas and be evaluated for surgery. I went on a Monday and spent the day with them and then the next day I was operated on and 2 screws were installed in my ankle. I was sent home that day with a walker and a wheel chair and a new boot. I made follow up visits that they scheduled for me and on the 20th of January, I got my release. If that is an example of Socialized Medicine, then count me in.

LMAO! Some fool on C-Span is saying, basically, that oil is a God-given energy source, and wind isn't.

Today's Obvious Headline:

" Analysis: Cheney attacks may not help GOP"

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5is5VnvQUdDNozO5pjszrt6BK72LgD98571LG0

patsi..quite the story. Sounds like it happened yesterday. The final moments really burn into the brain....I was better prepared for my Mom's death by my Father's passing, but I didn't catch her saying good-bye to me. After her passing, I found a note in her bible about what a wonderful daughter I was and all of my work to keep her safe and sound after my father's passing. I was shocked, elated and heartbroken.

Craig.... ooops... didn't realize it was a different day..... my bad.... that'll teach me to watch the video before commenting.....

you know.... all these horror stories about healthcare in other nations is so much BS..... would someone like to tell me what system on anything..... you name it.... healthcare, education, safety.... or how about family outings..... that is perfect.....

if it involves human beings.... it's not perfect....
such is life..... get over it.....

Patsi.... ALL of EVERYTHING is God-given, IMO....

Another thing the Insurance companies don't want presented at the Federal level is that state by state, Single Payer is having a great deal of success.

That may end up being the way to go. Just put the Insurance Companies out of the Health Care business state by state until folks reach the age to go on Medicare.

Off to work I go, a single payer system tis the way to go!

here's a funny bone for all of you....
this is the latest rant by TPM's dickday.... thanks CBob once again for turning me on to this guy..... it's entitled "The Tale of Two VPs....

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/dikkday48yahoocom/2009/05/a-tale-of-two-vps.php?ref=recmuck

warren, thanks. Frank Luntz is a 'ho. I heard some commentator on the tube talking about him, praising him for his ability to ask questions in polls and focus groups in such a way that he arrives at the result he's being paid to find. His surveys are BS - and btw are exactly the kind of polls and focus groups that the right pillories the left for utilizing while they are doing the same f*cking thing.

The average consumer of healthcare has no idea how the system operates because they experience such a small part of it. And those that know a little more about it typically are unaware of the layers of approval and review that exist.

You know, there was once a guy who ranted "I'm not gonna pay a lot for this muffler!" Maybe we need someone to say "I'm not gonna pay a lot for this health care!"

Posted by: Patsi Author Profile Page | May 13, 2009 9:32 AM

The cost of keeping people alive while dying is huge. I can't find the exact number right now. People need to learn to accept death and not let the medical community (and religious whack jobs) pretend they can do otherwise.

hd - see, I'm on the other side. I had chronic pain in my right hip - avascular necrosis - that when I went and had it looked at after I'd had about 3 lifetime quotas of ibuprofen and was getting tired of hurting, and the doc said hip replacement - but I was only 53 years old and the appliances that were FDA approved either had lifespans of 10-15 years or had their own other problems. So I'd likely be looking at a revision down the line UNLESS I went with a metal/metal resurfacing, which did not yet have FDA approval - a long story not worth telling here. I asked him how long I should wait to do the procedure and he said "You'll know when it's time." I had insurance under a large private insurer (hint - Blue) that would only approve payment for FDA approved devices. WEll, 3 months later I knew, so I called, and he said not a problem, let me get my staff on it and I'll have them call you back. They did, and about a week later he called back and said it was approved, we scheduled it for 3 months later, and it was done. I later found out that it was approved and paid for thanks to "creative" coding of the procedue and appliance. I asked him about tht and what he would do if I had come in as a result of an accident and he said he would have done the same thing but would have done it immediately, coded it the same way, and we woudl have been off to the races.

Bottom line - the care we need is out there to be had, and someone pays for it - just as it will be once we go to a single payor system - and we will, probably about along the timeframe warren foresees.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/05/singlepayer-health-care-advoca.html#comment-227502

kc, you're preaching to the choir. :-)

Renee, there are anecdotes about the horrors of healthcare in every country whether it has socialized, nationalized or purely private healthcare financing. The RW likes to trot out their unsubstantiated horror stories from GB, Europe and Canada every time the subject of nationalizing healthcare here comes up. Here's a rejoinder - "So how much does the private insurance you bought for your parents to keep them from having to be Medicare recipients cost?" I can bet you know what the answer will be.

My mom had always said to put her out on the ice when it was her time. Unfortunately she died in Florida. Pleased to say it was in her own bed.

Stinky and I had spent Sunday with her. She chose Sunday night as her time--after we had gone back to St Pete. My father had the presence to wait several hours before calling 911. By the time the unneeded paramedics arrived, her body was cold and there was obviously no need for any resuscitation.

A lot of times, people go against what is realistic when it comes to making decisions about a family member who is dying. 15 years ago, my 85 year-old step-grandmother fell off backwards off her front porch and she hit her head on the sidewalk. She had severe head trauma/bleeding on her brain. My Mom's half-brothers and sister decided to have her undergo surgery to relieve the pressure on her brain. All this did was prolong her life for a very short time. She spent her last few weeks living in a coma at a hospital. I went through that with my Father last year. We all expected him to be spending months in the Hospice House after my Mother admitted him there. We never expected him to be gone 4 days after we had him admitted. But, there was a huge sense of relief for us because we knew expensive a long stay at the Hospice House would have been. That is the question for a lot of people, though. I mean, what's the sense in prolonging someone's life, if the quality of that life is nothing at all?

Read in this morning's Journal that Medicare declined approval of the virtual colonoscopy where the patient swallows a camera and everything is tracked by cat scans. Very costly procedure compared to the traditional method where the camera is introduced you-know-where.

There's no doubt that I would prefer the traditional method as the 'appliance' they use also does biopsies at the same time it does it's scanning.

Both methods require the prep which I find the worst part of a colonoscopy.

Preaching a bit again. If your state does not have a POLST program or its equivalent, start one. If they do have a POLST program: Use It.

http://www.ohsu.edu/polst/

My children won't have to make a decision. I have it already done. Their job is just to make sure it is enforced.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/05/singlepayer-health-care-advoca.html#comment-227508

Flatus

LOL - It is Preparation H (for hell). The procedure is nothing.

I heard a comedian saying one night he was gonna die of colon cancer because he was not gonna have colostomy again because of where the procedure enters the body.

jamie,

won't living wills outline and define what the person wants to happen at the critical time like the POLST does?

"After her passing, I found a note in her bible about what a wonderful daughter I was and all of my work to keep her safe and sound after my father's passing. "

Wow -- that was a stunning find!

Torture testimony on CSPAN 3

"ALL of EVERYTHING is God-given, IMO...."

Agreed, Renee -- I kept thinking I wanted to ask that guy if God created oil, then who invented wind?

"My mom had always said to put her out on the ice when it was her time. "

Sit me by the curb on trash day.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/05/singlepayer-health-care-advoca.html#comment-227514

Dooty,

Yes but the difference is that the POLST is on file with your doctor and is a permanent part of your medical records. You keep a copy on hand where it could be given to any emergency responders.

For these reasons, it is better for medical decisions when you aren't able to make them. The people who need to see it in writing, already have it in writing.

For instance the story above about an elderly woman getting surgery that simply left her in a coma before death. With a POLST system they would already have what she wanted done in their hands before the events every occurred.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/05/singlepayer-health-care-advoca.html#comment-227485

"...any change to the status quo will cause the sky to fall..."

...when it's the inverse that's true. There is a natural order of decay in the universe. Not changing is regressing.

Living wills, POLST, advance directives - they all serve the same purpose with different names. The important thing is that it's in writing and somewhere that the hospital and your loved ones who are well meaning but not thinking clearly because they're caught up in the grief, guilt and all the other conflicting and confusing feelings that come with the impending death of a loved one can find. It's also important to designate a primary and secondary health care surrogate who can and will speak for you and carry out your wishes without getting caught up in the grief, guilt ... and be clear with them what your wishes are.

Flatus:

Your father sounds like a smart man. Seems like it runs in the family...

btw, that is assuming your stae doesn't have an effective registry like POLST - ours does not.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/05/singlepayer-health-care-advoca.html#comment-227394

I just loved that post Patd... said so beautifully.
.... also this Pat: "spreading good deeds even when they're unknown by you or the recipient." Very nice.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/13/gingrich-either-ignorant_n_202935.html

Looks like Gingrich is stuck on stupid - again.

solar, just in case you're lurking - you know what time it is - lunch.

Stinky and I have our durable powers of attorney, living wills, and healthcare surrogacies all recorded at the county clerks offices. There are also copies of these in our 'let's go to the hospital' bags.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/05/singlepayer-health-care-advoca.html#comment-227521

thanks pogo that was my understanding. The triage nurse always asks me if I have a living will on file with them at the VA.
My answer is yes.

jamie - I will still take Rachel Alexandra, please. I like the way her rider rides.

Watching these Torture hearings. I will go on record as saying:

Lindsey Graham is an unethical turd.

He sold his soul to shill for the banks and now he is selling his soul to shill for Bush regime torture.

Blue. I've got you on Rachel.

Chloe,

Tzedakahs are good deeds. "spreading good deeds even when they're unknown by you or the recipient' happens to be the next to highest level of good deed you can do.

Giving begrudgingly

Giving less that you should, but giving it cheerfully.

Giving after being asked

Giving before being asked

Giving when you do not know the recipient's identity, but the recipient knows your identity

Giving when you know the recipient's identity, but the recipient doesn't know your identity

Giving when neither party knows the other's identity
Enabling the recipient to become self-reliant

http://www.jewfaq.org/tzedakah.htm

Jeff Sessions re: confirmation hearings:

"Senators should refrain from making political attacks on the nominee's character, leaking background materials or taking quotes out of context to create a caricature of the nominee."

http://thepage.time.com/excerpts-from-sessions-washpost-op-ed-on-scotus/

Ummm, what the hell else would be left for them to do?!?

Lindsay Graham also sounds like Crusader Rabbit.

Blue....
ooooh.... lucky sign.....
the last time you and I took the filly for a Triple Crown race.... Rags to Riches in the 2007 Belmont.... she won....

let's hope for a repeat....

of course.... I'd always love to see another Triple Crown winner..... so if Mine That Bird wins..... I'd be happy about it too....

I'd like to see a photo finish between Rachel and Mine That Bird, with the filly winning by a hair.

When is this race, anyway?

Thanks, Patsi. What do you have against BW and me, already?

The Preakness is the second race in the triple crown. It is run at Pimlico Race Track in Maryland, one of the oldest tracks in the nation.

http://www.preakness.com/

This is the 134th running. The song is "Maryland My Maryland" sung to the tune of O Christmas Tree (O Tanenbaum).

The flowers and the official drink are the Black Eyed Susan

Ingredients:
1 1/4 oz. Whiskey
3/4 oz. Vodka
3 oz. Sweet and Sour Mix
2 oz. Orange Juice

Preparation:
Fill a highball glass with shaved ice, add the liquors first, then top off with orange juice and sweet and sour mix. Stir and garnish with an orange slice, cherry, and stirrer.

This is not the original recipe, which was better tasting in my opinion, but it is the current official recipe. The original called for equal parts of Cointreau, Mount Gay rum, and Vodka topped off with orange and pineapple juice, and garnished with a lime wedge.

The third leg is the Belmont in June - traditions and liquor to follow at appropriate date.

Who is BW? :)

She is THE Blonde Wino, my riding compadre on Mine that Bird, as if you didn't know. Harumph :)

Post positions have been drawn

1 Flatus, BW Mine That Bird
2 ? Big Drama
3 ? Flying Private
4 Patd General Quarters
5 ? Luv Gov
6 ? Musket Man
7 ? Papa Clem
8 ? Take The Points
9 ? Terrain
10 Jamie Pioneer of the Nile
11 ? Friesan Fire
12 Renee, Blue, Rachel Alexander
13 ? Tone It Down

rr - OK !!!

Hmm, has a jockey ever won all 3 races on 2 or 3 different horses???

Today, I am really tired of Nanci Pelosi. Really.

Jamie --

I will go with Friesan Fire again.

Oh, sorry Flatus and BW -- let's have a tie then....

Blue,

No. It is really unusual for a jockey to change horses for the other triple crown races after winning the Derby unless something happens to the horse as happened with Barbaro in the Preakness.

The only reason Calvin Borel is changing is because he is Rachel's regular jockey and was only riding Mine That Bird because Rachel wasn't running in the Derby.

The Crown is so hard to win that only 11 horses have done it and none since 1978

http://www.horseworlddata.com/tricrnw.html

Would anyone be able to help me with this issue?

I'm trying to put old photos on an sd memory card to view on a digital photo frame--and am having no luck

I have an sd reader/writer, scanner, corel paint shop & even scanned old photos into computer--and sent them to the sd card---but still cannot view on frame.

The frame is great--it has an internal memory & sd card ability to view & I easily loaded digital photos from my computer & also was able to view the digitals that are stored on an sd card---but I am baffled as to what I am not doing correctly with trying to scan the old photos

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Sorry to be so off topic, but I have been struggling with this for a few days & am stumped & hope that someone can explain what I am missing.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_05/018153.php

Harry can't find ONE frickin' repug moderate to vote for cloture? I really find this hard to believe. I HOPE that Casper Milquetoast has put out the word, and in no uncertain terms, that no repug initiatives will see the light of day. And where the hell is Dick Durbin?

Breaking news:

President Barack Obama is seeking to block the immediate release of hundreds of photos showing U.S. personnel allegedly abusing prisoners in Iraq and Afghanistan.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/13/detainee-photos-obama-see_n_203024.html

Coreen, aren't some newer SD cards made to handle more data than the original ones? Do you have have one of the high capacity cards? If so, it may not be compatible with your frame.

They should only be released at the trials, Warren.

Warren,

It's hard to know where to come down on that issue. From the standpoint of troop safety, he is absolutely right. We did horrible things to these people and the release of the photos proving we did it, is not likely to win friends and promote understanding ... another gift from the Cheney Administration.

OTOH, the only way to clean out an infection is to drain the poison. Get the crud out there where the world can see it and promise to never ever do it again.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/05/singlepayer-health-care-advoca.html#comment-227536

Jamie, Thank you so muh for link the Tzedakah site -- 'You' are a wealth of information, and I'm glad you share it. I'm going to hang onto that list.

Flatus:

Problem is that the court order was in response to a FOIA request by the ACLU.

I was looking over the decision a bit today. It seems that if the govt can make a credible - rather than speculative argument - that the photos could put Americans in danger - there is a chance the S. Ct. could overturn.

Even if there is a legal basis to release the photos - I see no good reason for it.

Also, having the pictures come out just before a major trip to Egypt which is a Muslim nation and one of our few allies is the area (not to mention still having some sway with Syria) can't be good.

Flatus, I'm pretty sure that it is compatible, the sd card that works in the frame is the same as the blank sd card that i thought I transfered old photos to. And it only a 1GB?

"OTOH, the only way to clean out an infection is to drain the poison. Get the crud out there where the world can see it and promise to never ever do it again."

I think the Gitmo prosecutions and change in administration did enough to change the policies and decrease the chances that such things will never happen again.

I don't see how these photos will do anyone any good. (Other than recruiters for militants and terrorists...)

Yes, sounds as if it should be, Coreen. Since the other card works, the blank one may be a dud.

oops - change "decrease" to "increase" / or "never" to "ever"

Warren,
Warren,

Trying the people who did it would help with that. It is sort of an either / or.

If the administration wants to forget about prosecutions, then they have to clean the mess up some other way and a sincere apology for betraying our deepest convictions because our leaders were in a totally craven, lynch mob state after 9/11 might do as a substitute.

CARRAMBA...(DANG)..............."solar, just in case you're lurking - you know what time it is - lunch."

Who Will Stop the AIPAC Jews Before it is Too Late?

by Medea Benjamin

I wonder the same thing. When is it too late, I wonder, to stop Israel from destroying itself? When is it too late to tell AIPAC attendees that more violence and hatred is not the answer? When is it too late to open the hardened hearts of my people, once victims of a terrible holocaust, to realize that by occupying Palestine we have become they evil we deplore? When is it too late to restore meaning to the Hebrew term "tikkun olam" by truly working to heal the world? When is it too late for the Jews of the world to weep for the children of Gaza, recognizing that they, too, are the children of God?

While I was being tackled by security guards at Washington's Convention Center during the AIPAC conference for unfurling a banner that asked "What about Gaza?," my heart was aching. I wasn't bothered so much by the burly guards who were yanking my arms behind by back and dragging me-along with 5 other CODEPINK members-out of the hall. They were doing their job.

What made my heart ache was the hatred I felt from the AIPAC staff who tore up the banner and slammed their hands across my mouth as I tried to yell out: "What about Gaza? What about the children?"

"Shut the f--- up. Shut the f--- up." one staffer yelled, red-faced and sweating as he ran beside me. "This is not the place to be saying that shit. Get the f--- out of here."

What makes my heart ache is thinking about the traumatized children I met on my recent trip to Gaza, and how their suffering is denied by the 6,000 AIPAC conventioneers who are living in a bubble-a bubble where Israel is the victim and all critics are anti-Semitic, terrorist lovers or, as in my case, self-hating Jews.

This global movement, he warned, emanates from the Middle East, echoes in the halls of the United Nations and the capitals of Europe, is voiced in meetings of international peace organizations, and is spreading throughout the United States-from the media to town hall meetings, from campuses to city squares. "No longer is this campaign confined to the ravings of the political far left or far right," he lamented, "but increasingly it is entering the American mainstream."

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/05/06-14

Jamie:

I don't know if having their hand forced by the ACLU is really taking a major step.

Even though Hannity and has crew of rabid rabble-rousers are saying that it is Obama's decision to release the photos.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/05/singlepayer-health-care-advoca.html#comment-227558

Jamie --

I don't think the horses get enough respite in between races.

Yes, lets not release the photos or investigate and prosecute those who instituted, authorized and carried out the War Crimes.

Lets just all shut up and leave this alone so the next time we get an evil SOB in the Peoples House it can be risen from the Dead and Brought Back To Life.

Lets all just let a precedent be set, after all we get the Government We Deserve.

Have a nice day.

Hold on a minute.. Someone connect this disconnect for me. I thought that the torture program was CIA - and outsourced to contractors, with CIA supervision. Pictures of this endangers troops from people who hate us already exactly how? Or are we going to find out that the torture was more widespread and carried out by our troops? Something is amiss here.

The obstruction begins.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/13/david-hayes-obama-interio_n_202862.html

Like I said - Harry, Dick, what the hell are you doing?

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/05/singlepayer-health-care-advoca.html#comment-227575

Ivy,

They really don't run that often in their three year old year simply because they are not fully grown until their fourth year. Two and Three year olds can only run against horses of the same age.

It isn't the frequency that makes the Triple Crown so difficult, it is the three different distances on three different tracks with very loud, large crowds and lots of excitement.

The trainers have to work very hard to bring them to these races healthy, in peak condition at exactly the right time with a temperment that can handle the crowds. It's no wonder the horses tend to be prima donnas. Out of the thousands born in the same year, they know how good they are. :-)

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124217356836613091.html

Your contract isn't worth the paper it's written on......Lesson learned ????? Lenders ........Be very wary of lending to a union - shop....we'll see

Here's a more extensive treatment of the detainee photo issue.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/05/13/white-house-wants-a-delay-in-the-release-of-detainee-photos/?hp

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/05/singlepayer-health-care-advoca.html#comment-227580

Breaking contracts, that is what bankruptcy is all about.
Or weren't you aware of that.
It is usually done by big corporations to get out of their obligations to their employees. Never noticed the Wall street Journal opinion page ever getting all upset when that happens.
I think their outrage is more than just a little fake.

Jack

Wonder what their deadline is to apply to the Supreme Court for review?

I wish all these headlines and stories would be more accurate.

Obama did not decide to release the photos. The Second Circuit Court of Appeals did.

Then the Justice Dept,. wrote a letter saying we will not appeal the decision to the S. Ct. and will release photos by May 28.

Obama reversed course and is now going to take the case to the S. Ct. So now there are three possibilities.

1 & 2 - the S. Ct. either declines to review the case - or takes it up and affirms - and the Pentagon is ordered to release the photos. (Hannity and his crew blame Obama.)

3 - the S. Ct. reverses the decision and the photos are not released. (Obama is accused of acting like Bush by the Left.)

(Such fun being the President ; )

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/05/singlepayer-health-care-advoca.html#comment-227560

Pogo
I love this comment in the link about Reid

"LBJ spins in his grave. He'd be grabbing a select few Senators by the lapels and threatening to do things to their dogs and children that would give Nazis nightmares."

Jack

Jack,
It's obvious you don't have a clue what you're talking about......so I'll just leave it at that.....:)

jax, the Journal is becoming a bit, ummm, shoddy. Such a well researched article on the contracts clause by Professor Zywicki might have found that the contracts clause appears at Article I, Section 10, clause 1 of the Constitution rather than in Article V, which governs amending the Constitution, might also have noted that it is a Federal action that is in question rather than a state action which that clause would prohibit, and also might mention that creditors committees are appointed by the bankruptcy trustee and are usually the 7 largest UNSECURED creditors.

Perhaps Pr. Zywicki would rather see no involvment by Fiat, and the secured creditors get whatever the market will bear for the assets securing their debts. Lord knows, Chrysler has no cash with which to pay its debts, and from what I can tell, not a whole lot of leverage in the deal. And considering the state of manufacturing in the US in general and auto manufacturing in particular, I suspect those assets might have less value than the 30% they would receive under the plan - after all, there are more than a couple of assembly plants sitting idle right now. It's as they say, a buyer's market.

Sounds to me like he's just pissed that the UAW will get 50% (of something) while the capitalists who invested in Chrysler will only get 30%. They made a bad investment - it happens. Typical WSJ claptrap. Coreen would know a lot more about this than do I, but sheesh. In short, that appears to me to be one very misleading article written wholly from the perspective of secured creditors.

warren, good analysis. Anyone going to close that disconnect for me?

Jax

I used to take you at your word, that you were a businessman. But if you don't know that little basic about bankrupcy then it is obvious you are not.

It must be a bitch to be stuck in midlevel management these days.

Jack

Pogo,
Senior debt is senior debt.....I would think that such a learned legal scholar as you would know that.......

By giving precedent to junior debt you completely subvert the intention of bankruptcy. How you don't see that is amazing to me.....Do you actually practice law?

Jack , ignore jax, he's beeing arrogant and condescending.

But the problem is that this is being done to avoid bankruptcy, and Obama is pushing it to avoid losing one of the big 3 completely. IF Chrysler went into Ch. 11, a secured creditor's position would only change if it was part of the plan. Otherwise, they would just continue as SCs. In this case, at least as I understand it, Fiat is buying the assets that underly the SC's investments for $.30 on the dollar and are offering to honor the UAW contract (I expect this is limited to the non wage provisions) at 50% of its current structure. And they don't have to - they can tell Obama to piss off. But if the SCs and UAW won't accept the plan, Fiat will no doubt rescind its offer and MoPar will file under either Ch. 11 or Ch. 7. Without federal dollars filling its accounts does anyone think Chrysler could continue as a going concern? I don't think so. And does anyone think there's much of a market out there for Chrysler's assets? Only if a Honda or Hyundai or some other going concern automaker or manufacturer with a burning need for auto plants steps up and makes a play - and who believes that would be in excess of Fiat's offer? As they say, if you believe that I've got some beachfront property in Arizona to show you.

bethyboo

I thought you might like to see this ad for the no side
on 1a
http://votenoon1a.com/

Generally I am supportive of the groups opposing 1a. The isssues are as always complicated and complex and because of that people tend to throw up their hands and act like nothing can be done.

We definitely need reform in revenue raising in California as well as budget reform. Sometimes I think any step is one in the right direction --- if the result is bad for large groups of people maybe something better will happen.

We need to continue what was started with prop 13.

Pogo,
Arrogant.....yeah....I exhibit that flaw from time to time....
Condescending......yeah Ok I'll give you that one too.

But you watch this will effect more than just Chrysler.
Having secure debt and a reasonable expectation for senior treatment in the event of bankruptcy is a cornerstone of our system.......if it's no longer a real expectation backed by our rule of law.......then what?

jamie, how many times is lindsay going to sell his soul? does he get returns and do refunds and resell the same one or does he have some spare ersatz souls stuffed in inside pockets of an overcoat... like the guy on the street that sells rolex watches

Posted by: jaxtrader Author Profile Page | May 13, 2009 4:07 PM

that ship sailed with the bankrutpcy bill of a few years ago

Pogo

Good advice
BTW, looking to inform myself on the latest with chrysler I ran across the paragraph in a long forbes article. It explainsto me any way, why some of the Chrysler and GM creditors are seemingly behaving against their own interest.

"In short, creditors with enough credit default swaps may simultaneously have control rights and incentives to cause the debtor firm's value to fall. And if bankruptcy occurs, the empty creditor may undermine proper reorganization, especially if his interests (or non-interests) are not fully disclosed to the bankruptcy court. "

http://www.forbes.com/2009/05/06/chrysler-gm-fiat-bankruptcy-opinions-columnists-nouriel-roubini.html

Jack

Greetings from the Iowa Presidential campaign bus...

Throw a potential new name into the 2012 Republican Presidential candidate circus...

"American Future Fund today announced that Sen. John Ensign (R-NV) will deliver the latest installment in its Conservative Lecture Series on Monday, June 1, in Sioux City. The event will be held at the Wilbur Aalfs (Main) Library in downtown Sioux City."

Ensign is also scheduled to make stops at Trans Ova Genetics and do a meet-and-greet at the Wells Blue Bunny Ice Cream Parlor while he's in the state. The events are open to the media...

http://www.iowapolitics.com/index.iml?Article=158524

jax, I don't practice bankruptcy or debtor creditor law, but do have a working knowIedge of it, having represented creditors in a couple of adversary procedings. I did misspeak - what's been reported is the outline of the C. 11 bankruptcy plan - Senior debt is indeed senior debt, and secured debt is worth exactly what the underlying asset is worth. And maybe you think a contract is a contract and a debt is a debt, but ifyou think that, think again. The contract with the UAW has FLSA and DoL issues, the stock debts have SEC issues. Arms length contracts, whether secured or not, have none of those issues attached. Senior debt or secured debt means absofuckinglutely nothing in this instance unless Fiat either decides it's worth more to them than $.30/dollar (nothing I've seen has detail that supports that figure, but I'll assume it's true for the sake of argument) or pulls out and lets Chrysler either get a bigtime bailout or go under, or in the alternative if the court does not approve the plan. The debt to the pension fund was part of a deal that would allow Chrysler, now partnered with Fiat - or so it's proposed - to continue to operate rather than lay idled by a UAW strike. The CH. 11 structure allows for just this kind of subordination of debt to the extent it is necessary to allow the entity to continue to operate with the prospect of avoiding further reorganization or liquidation. IF the reorg is successful, Fiat (and Cerberus) and perhaps NewCarCo got a good deal at the expense of secured creditors whose positions may be eliminated with the 30% payout, if that is the plan (I suppose it could be in the form of Fiat stock, but like I said, I don't know the details). If the creditors are not willing to accept the reorg plan, they can exercise their rights under Ch. 11. We'll see, but my money is on the SCs taking the 30%, licking their wounds and deciding whether to buy Fiat stock.

"Having secure debt and a reasonable expectation for senior treatment in the event of bankruptcy is a cornerstone of our system.......if it's no longer a real expectation backed by our rule of law.......then what?'"

If this was Ch. 7, you'd have a better argument, but it's Ch. 11. And it's secured debt, not secure debt, and its value is not guaranteed. If they think they're getting a raw deal, the creditors have recourse against the debtor through the court before bankruptcy and through the bankruptcy court after. That's all they are entitled to under the law, and all they've ever been entitled to.

Oh, and I left NLRB off the list above. My bad.

Well this whole campaign to get Sea's father's Army Division honored just led to something funny. I just found out I'm related to the President:

His grandfather on his mother's side is descended from Mareen Duvall (a Huguenot merchant who emigrated to Maryland in the 1650s). That particular man is a relationship by marriage, but it you have ancestors from that period in Maryland, you have common ancestors (It's why Obama and Cheney are related).

There were so few families available to marry that everyone is related to everyone else. They took "kissing cousins" to a high art. :-)

Well, I gotta go put some lavender bushes in the ground. I wonder if I can sell my Chrysler stock? LOL

Jamie,

so does that mean that you are also related to Cheney? If so, I would keep that quiet. I mean you can't choose your relatives but you don't have to tell everyone. :)

Pogo,

No doubt that Chapter 11 leaves a little more wiggle/negotiating room but this is not being handled like a normal Chapter 11.

I think the govt's efforts in this proceeding set a poor precedent for future proceedings and should be red flag for any entity looking at providing financing to any of our large industries.

It'll be interesting to see how the GM deal goes......

"It'll be interesting to see how the GM deal goes"

As there is nobody out there to pick up the pieces like Fiat did for Chrysler, I would say a lot easier. 30 cents on the dollar may look real good in a GM bankruptcy.

Jack

Interesting discussion today. I just finished talking to my new RN who is from Canada. It was so hectic today that I called her to make sure she would be back tomorrow. Yes she will.

I asked her again about thier health care in Canada. She again said that, as a citizen, she could pick her Dr, get in to see the Dr. in a reasonable time and get specialty treatment she needed in a reasonable time.

She also said they pay 15% sales tax on everything except food. They pay higher income taxes and have no such thing as homestead exemption on their homes. I guess that is how they pay for it....taxes.

Supreme Court Short List

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-politics/20090513/US.Obama.Supreme.Court/

Supreme Court Short List

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-politics/20090513/US.Obama.Supreme.Court/

Carol

I was doing a litttle research a couple of years ago.
We could have the Canadian system for what the government currently spends on health care. It seems our government spends as much as Canada per capita, with out everybody being covered. As I understood the Canadian system it was a lot like medicare, so there are some gaps in the coverage one being medicine.

Jack

Preface this by saying I am not a Chapter 11 Bankruptcy expert--however--if the center of the discussion was based upon the "absolute priority rule" in bankruptcy as was stated in the WSJ article-- as usual there is very little absolute in the law, and there is section of the bankruptcy code that was not mentioned which appears to be the controlling section for the proposed sale of Chrysler assets & a balance to the absolute priority rule---all to the chagrin of a group of its secured creditors.

As I understand it the Chrysler bankruptcy, without question an unusual filing, involves a bankruptcy section 363 sale of certain of the debtor's assets and contracts to a new Delaware LLC in exchange for $2 billion in cash & other payments.

The new owner will assume some contracts, including the labor agreements as part of the sale transaction. In accordance with Section 363 the sale will be free &clear of other obligations.

The Code does make provision for a secured creditor to credit bid its claim iin a 363 sale, similar to a home lenders right to bid the value of its mortgage in a foreclosure sale---however these lenders as a group decided to not assert their right to credit bid and instead agreed to accept $2 billion. (i believe even the holdouts--certain hedge funds who initially objected to the process--have now removed their objections--not certain if all have but I think they have) And yes, these were the creditors that claimed the Administration was targeting them specfically in the media.

Was this decision based upon government pressure-- obviously---but to present the position that this is an
absolute violation of the "rule of law" is simply inaccuate. It is clear from the language & comments in
the WSJ article that there was an agenda in this opinion---one that to say the least is not complimentary
to the present administration.

Tthere is nothing basic about this particular bankruptcy and the structuring of it will most likely be the subject of ongoing discussion for a long time to come by persons well beyond my knowledge of this particular area of bankruptcy law.

Nothing is being subverted in the bankruptcy---the Code provides for the action that is being taken.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/05/singlepayer-health-care-advoca.html#comment-227579

Jamie --

I didn't know about the "not fully grown" element.

Sorry to be untimely in my dialogue...I'm in a catch-as-catch-can mode lately, but I appreciate all the information you provide to me and everyone... (^_^)

And for those who expressed an interest in GM----fascinating & mind-boggling at the same time.

"Showdown at the General Motors corral"

http://www.salon.com/tech/htww/2009/05/12/the_general_motors_showdown/index.html?source=rss&aim=/tech/htww

Taxing employer paid insurance premiums would be a huge tax increase on the working class.

"the WSJ article that there was an agenda in this opinion---one that to say the least is not complimentary
to the present administration. "

I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

Jamie - I'd like to put my money on Rachel Alexandra.

A thought to ponder: what if the person who decides whether your claim is approved or not under single payer is the sister of that goon who is standiing in the way of the 94th's regiment?????? Yikes. :)

Flatus - I'm not being hard on my self. Above all, I want to be able to believe myself - if you can lie to youself and get away with it, you're in real danger. So I tend to examine my beliefs, of which there aren't that many. All other topics are things I just wonder about.

I like to feel secure, and that means I can't place my faith in chancy beliefs. I need to have stability in my
beliefs because I count on them almost hourly. They are important to me,as well, because I'm a teacher at heart.

I felt so lucky to have 50 minutes with all of my sudents every day - I felt so honored to have the faith of those parents that I would do right for their kids. I was jealous of my time with those pink immature brains and did not want to give up any of my time. I didn't show many movies or film strips, and the ones I did show were carefully chosen. The film strips were the old kind, where there was a pix with printed narration at the bottom. heh heh. I used those as opportunities to add my own understanding. Kids must have hated them, especially since my loud vocie was impossible ti avoid.

I wanted them to see how complicated events and people are, with no easy answers. I wanted them to question themselves as much as others, even me. I wanted them to know there is a lot to learn for everybody, even me.

If I was going to help mold their brains, I had to be sure my beliefs were valid, so I had to constantly subject them to review.

I think a politican has varying kinds of power, not necessarily transient, but ebbing and flowing. Their power is not stable and reliable, but dependent on so many things. Committee assignments, good will of colleagues (which has a price), elections, contributions,laws of nature. opposing parties. media,media,media - that's as it should be, but it's not for me.

I didn't get involved in pta, and in faculty meetings, I tended to keep my mouth shut - they were SO boring, and frankly, SO obvious. I think they all knew what I thought basically, and they certainly knew I wasn't afraid to say it. They used to tell me that when I chewed out my kids, they'd leave their doors open and tell their kids to listen to me. I think they were a little afraid of me - so unnecessary.

My thanks to Craig, in the spirit of Cbob, is for this place where I get to talk about myself so much, and for gathering this indescribably rich group of people who also let me babble on about myself and don't send me bronx cheers. You are all so good to me and I am so lucky to have seen that day one of KGC's posts on another sight that Craig had this blog! This has to be the best group therapy ever to exist!

Now it is being reported GM will close plants in U.S. & move those jobs to Mexico after taking billions from American citizens they are going to be allowed to do this? I guess the Obama administration will surely say well next time we will do better.. Running out of missed opportunities . Could they please just get something right. Kids could write a better contract.

Now it is being reported GM will close plants in U.S. & move those jobs to Mexico after taking billions from American citizens they are going to be allowed to do this? I guess the Obama administration will surely say well next time we will do better.. Running out of missed opportunities . Could they please just get something right. Kids could write a better contract.

Bethy,

The government person isn't the one who decides what treatment you need under single payer. That decision is made by the doctor. You know up front what is covered/not covered.

For instance, facial reconstruction due to accident injury would be covered. Your next face lift wouldn't be.

Lindsay Graham is a buffoon and a jerk. He spent his whole time today trying to poo-poo torture.

He actually argued with Ali Soufan who is a decorated operative.

He looked like a smirking brat!

BLAH!

tt

1 Flatus, BW Mine That Bird
2 ? Big Drama
3 ? Flying Private
4 Patd General Quarters
5 ? - Luv Gov
6 ? - Musket Man
7 ? - Papa Clem
8 ? - Take The Points
9 ? - Terrain
10 Jamie - Pioneer of the Nile
11 ? - Friesan Fire
12 Renee, Blue, Bethy - Rachel Alexander
13 ? - Tone It Down

bethyboo
"You are all so good to me and I am so lucky to have seen that day one of KGC's posts on another sight that Craig had this blog! This has to be the best group therapy ever to exist!"

I'm glad you saw it too!

Jamie,

I'll ride Big Drama to win. Thanks.

A feller I know won the triple crown trifecta a couple years ago. That's how he paid for his facial reconstruction when he fell of a 30 foot ladder. I don't think there was a penny of the winnings left over.

Na, it wasn't the triple crown, it was the Derby trifecta : $70k or thereabouts.

Jamie - that would be because they wouldn't allow a crane in the OR! LOL

Jamie, I'll take Rachel Alexandra. The only girl in the race, riden by a Louisiana boy and in my lucky number post position. What more can I ask?

I love ya Bethy!

Carol

Jamie,

Would you please put me down for Big Drama to win.
Thanks

Jamie, Your kiddele cats are adorable. Where do I get a hat?

Sturge, Earl Scruggs is coming to GR on August 13th.

Chloe,

If you're gonna ride Big D, you'll have to sit behind me and hold on real tight.

We're gonna fly down that backstretch, and I hope we're still up as we do it, 'cuz I hate track rash.

And, for heaven's sake don't ever tell Sweetie !

Bethy, your comment arrived as Stinky and I were sitting here watching Tom Sawyer. Somehow it seems as if Mark Twain is entirely appropriate for this place.

And Flatus, I liked your sick bed story. Everyone needs to have one of those experiences. I told ya'll about mine, when my mom said goodbye with the beautiful blue aura that surrounded me just before she floated up. Solar got a pic of it.

High winds and a Maxfield Parrish dusk in the west.

"I love ya Bethy!"

What Im I chopped liver??

"Chloe,
If you're gonna ride Big D, you'll have to sit behind me and hold on real tight.
We're gonna fly down that backstretch, and I hope we're still up as we do it, 'cuz I hate track rash.
And, for heaven's sake don't ever tell Sweetie !"

Who is the Drama Queen,,,U or Chloe??

KNOCK,,,,KNOCK,,,,HEY SWEETIE,,,,,do you know where you xr is//hahaha

It seems to me that all religion begins at death.

Whether it prepares you for it, talks of an afterlife or speaks of immortality - it all starts there.

(sorry! L O S T gets me everytime ; )

Love ya too Solar but I am not crazy about chopped liver.

Flatus,

I like all of your stories and illustrations. I am certainly glad that I was so WRONG about you.

There was an ROK Division in Nam. They were an admirable group of warriors - amazingly tough and businesslike grunts.

Do you know, did Korea rotate divisions, or was it always the same same outfit with different companies, battalions, etc., rotated in and out ? Also, was it an elite guard unit or were they the normal riflemen of the Korean Army ? Thanks in advance.

XR,,,,sorry I did not say anything to sweetie

Flatus - amen.

Mr. SolarDelusion,

Please don't apologize, just be nice to the nice Summons Server, when the Alienation of Affections Suit and Defamation of Character Suits are served to you - the former from me, and the latter from Chloe.

(In a previous incarnation, I served divorce and other nasty legal papers for a living. Nice money, but a crappy culture. Kinda like bounty hunting, without the long trips to McLaughlin, NV or Flamingo City, FL. Give me a nice clean murder. At least in murder cases there is some closure.)

XR,

Actually, there were two--the Tiger and the White Horse. They were both in the central highlands. I was at QuiNhon at the time. I think they were normal outfits---every division in the ROK 1st Army was elite. Tremendously well disciplined.

I remember watching an infantry regt of the Tiger Division come ashore off of LCMs. Although the area was well secured, they still handled it as an opposed operation.

Their artillery positions looked as if they were designed at Ft Sill. And they took casualties, too. I remember seeing deuce and a halfs filled with body bags headed to the airfield at New Pleiku.

I don't recall them ever being rotated out after what we would consider a normal tour. But, I just don't know what their policy was.

I was only there in 65-66.

"Mr. SolarDelusion"

Im trying to be nice HERE,,,and then you go and, gonna see Pogo in the am,,,and see about some papers that are coming your way

Yeah that sounds like a crappy job,,,,,,,my worst was selling new and used cars and trks,,,,,sold three in one day,,,made a lot of $,,,and couldn't sleep for a few nights,,,,I quit,,,it takes a special kind of unhuman to do this type of work! nite,,,welcome back,,,,

Hey with all of this cat talk,,,,I had to find a quote ( I remembered a little of it),,,,I know that you know this part of the world,,

,,,,"It does not matter what color the cat is,,,as long as it catches mice"

Corey..In the early 70's the Earl Scruggs Review performed a concert at my college. I worked the event and was able to watch most of the concert. It was a wonderful evening..

Jamie --

Me on Friesan Fire...thanks!

Bethy,,,,C bob,,,,

I remember that you both shared this interest with me,,,I first saw a special on the Hobbits,,on the science channel ,,,here is the latest

Published: Wednesday, May 6, 2009 - 12:36 in Paleontology & Archaeology
Learn more about: american museum of natural history homo floresiensis

A detailed analysis of the feet of Homo floresiensis—the miniature hominins who lived on a remote island in eastern Indonesia until 18,000 years ago—may help settle a question hotly debated among paleontologists: how similar was this population to modern humans? A new research paper, featured on the cover of the current issue of Nature, may answer this question. While the so-called "hobbits" walked on two legs, several features of their feet were so primitive that their gait was not efficient. "The hobbits were bipedal, but they walked in a different way from modern humans," explains William Harcourt-Smith, a Research Scientist in the Division of Paleontology at the American Museum of Natural History and an author on the paper. "Their feet have a combination of human-like and more primitive early hominin traits, some of which are more akin to those in Lucy." Lucy is an early bipedal but small-brained hominin, or australopithecine, that lived in Africa 3.2 million years ago.

The "hobbits," excavated from Liang Bua Cave on the island of Flores, were first described in 2004. Known specimens range in age from 90,000 to 18,000 years old, making them contemporaneous with modern humans. This, in combination with the unusually small stature and brain size of H. floresiensis, led to considerable debate among researchers and in the press. Some consider the population a separate species, while others have assessed the fossils as pathological modern humans. But a number of recent analyses of the skull, face, and wrist have found many unusually primitive features among the "hobbits" that are more similar to chimpanzees and Australopithecus, suggesting that the Flores inhabitants represent a remnant population of early hominins.

The anatomy of the foot described in the new paper might finally answer the pathological modern vs. primitive population question. Although the foot is characteristic of a biped—being stiff and having no opposable big toe—many other traits fall outside of the range for modern humans. The H. floresiensis foot is very long in proportion to the lower limb and considerably more than half the length of the thighbone; modern human feet are relatively shorter at about half of the femur's length. The stubby big toe of the hobbits is another primitive, chimp-like trait. But the pivotal clue comes from the navicular bone, an important tarsal bone that helps form the arch in a modern human foot. The "hobbit" navicular bone is more akin to that found in great apes, which means that these hominins lacked an arch and were not efficient long-term runners.

"Arches are the hallmark of a modern human foot," explains Harcourt-Smith. "This is another strong piece of the evidence that the "hobbit" was not like us."

Researchers also assessed the pathology hypothesis by comparing "hobbit" feet to those of typical modern humans and pathological modern specimens such as pituitary dwarfs. While the pathological specimens fell well within the range of modern humans, the "hobbits" did not. This suggests that H. floresiensis was an unusual, isolated population of early hominins.

"The fossil record continues to surprise us," says William Jungers, Chairman of the Department of Anatomical Sciences at Stony Brook University Medical Center, and an author on the study. "H. floresiensis is either an island-dwarfed descendant of H. erectus that not only underwent body-size reduction but also extensive evolutionary reversals, or, as our analysis suggests, it represents a new species full of primitive retentions from an ancestor that dispersed out of Africa much earlier than anyone would have predicted. Either way, the implications for human evolution are profound."
Source: American Museum of Natural History

Cats...

Someone once said a dog sleeps in your bed cause it loves you.

A cat sleeps in your bed cause it loves your bed!

"A cat sleeps in your bed cause it loves your bed!"

LOL Warren......My cats think they own my bed, and let me share it with them.