Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Math question for all of you:

How can 2 x $16.93 amount to $54.11?

Corey...
you forgot the Woo Woo.....

I disagree with Obama's plan to escalate troops in Afghanistan....

Craig.... this column.... A+....

now I really do need to get the hell off this machine and accomplish something today.... or I'm gonna hate myself in the morning.....

One of the major problems with Afghanistan is that we have been on both sides of the tribal conflict. Now getting any of them to trust us enough to assist in stabilizing a central government is going to be like untangling worms.

We should have stuck with Afghanistan right from the start but woulda, shoulda, coulda doesn't carry a lot of historical weight. I only hope we can keep Pakistan and India out of conflict.

For now we need to get Afghanistan and Pakistan cooperating to suppress tribes engaging in weapons, drugs, and extreme Muslim bombing activities while bolstering those tribes that are willing to live peacefully together to establish a working government.

Posted by: Corey Author Profile Page | March 27, 2009 12:06 PM

sounds like the kind of math used by credit card companies

As for Afghanistan -- I guess Obama needs to move on from presidents besides Lincoln when looking for role models

Mike Barnicle and the morning load people are increasingly stupid. This morning he suggested replacing the opium poppies with corn. Why would they plant corn?

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/03/the-afghan-surge.html#comment-214541

KGC

They heard about Colorado Bob's project and wanted to get in on the world wide blue corn planting?

Now after being a little silly. Barnacle needs a brain adjustment. Corn is not part of the cultural diet. At best it is animal feed. At least if he had suggested bulgar wheat, it would have nutritional merit if not financial.

pogo:

Thanks for the prodding - it has really spurred my thinking on this issue. Anyways, as I was walking to lunch - I thought about the following explantion for we shouldn't entirely scrap securitization:

Some companies make money while other companies lend money. Secrutization allows for a synergy between the differing needs between these two types of company.

A bank that keeps lending money - is eventually going to run out. So a mortgage company is left with a bunch of 15-30 year IOU's - which might be paying a nice interest rate - but do nothing for the immediate need to get more cash on hand so they can lend out more money.

A company that makes money, i.e., a ship building company - will sometimes have too much cash. In other words, they don't want to simply stuff their profits under a mattress or put them in a savings account. On the other hand, they don't want to play to stock market - because it is too risky.

So a lending company can securitize their loans and sell the rights to the principal and interest payments to the shipping company.

Now, the lending company has more cash to lend. And the shipping company has an investment that pays a nice, steady rate of return over the long haul.

Of course this depends on the securitization being based on prime loans as opposed to subprime loans. And like I mentioned in one of my earlier posts - you can make these types of securities even more conservative by offering "senior" securities that will not take any losses from defaults until after those losses hit the "junior" securities. (The "junior" securities are cheaper and are out there for those who want to take a greater risk.)

My issue is that we have been hearing from everyone - including Krugman - that one of the major issues with our economy is the "credit crisis", i.e., banks are not lending.

Well if you eliminate securitization - you exacerbate this problem because you eliminate one of the primary ways for a bank to raise capital.

So again - we should regulate to make sure banks are not making bad loans and then engaging in bad securitizations based on those loans - but we should not scrap the whole system.

In order to succeed, a war in Afghanistan has to have a strictly limited objective.

Viet Nam is not a great analogue. There, a single, relatively homogenous ethnic group, the Vietnamese, totally dominated the country, and the war was nationalist with a religious twist. Few Vietnamese felt loyal to the US, and only a few more could be rented.

Afghanistan is not nearly as thoroughly dominated by the ethnic Pathan, and the war is dynastic with a religious twist. No Afghans feel loyal to the US, few feel loyal to each other, and almost everyone is for rent by the hour.

We can fight to destroy the Taliban, which would be good for a number of minority ethnic groups, besides women and girls, but we can't turn Afghanistan into a loyal client state.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robbie-gennet/afghanistans-biofuel-revo_b_168399.html

Barnicle probably doesn't realize that junkies don't buy corn.

Corn in Afghanistan. What next, corn in Idaho ? Corn in Nevada ?

Thank goodness we have men with such strong backgrounds in agriculture, like Mr. Bareknucklehead, to guide us. Didn't he once grow parsley in his kitchen window ? Or was that dope ?

I figured it out :

Corn takes a lot of fertilizer, and Mr. Bareknucklehead is so full of bullshit that he thinks he'll make billions.

Corey,

Someone is using "stimulated" math.

This seems like a good place to put these quotes I read on Tom Ricks blog.

"I didn't realize the Gurkhas were fighting in Afghanistan. This is like the World Series of mountain warriors."

"he recalls at one point being surrounded by a Japanese unit in Burma, and his Gurkha sergeant major turning to him and saying, "Boy, am I glad these guys aren't Pashtuns!""

http://ricks.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2009/03/26/gurkhas_vs_taliban

Jack

Maybe people should send Obama copies of
3 CUPS OF TEA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Cups_of_Tea

instead of armed forces --maybe send more teachers and
books

For a guy who is supposed to think outside the box -- he seems to spend a lot of time in the box

xrep

LOL

Your on a roll.

Jack

Obama has got it right on Afghanistan. He has narrowed the mission to disrupting the ability of terrorists to plot attacks.

He has also made clear we are not seeking to take that country over (this is an important distinction between us and the imperial powers that have been defeated their such as Britain and Russia).

And he acknowledges that it will take a combination of hard and soft power to "drain the swamp."

Seahag asked for a rational explanation of our mission in Afghanistan. Well, if you take Obama at his word, that there is intelligence indicating the terrorists are still plotting in the border region - than there is a legitimate national security interest.

Also, from a political standpoint, if Obama was to pull back, and then America was struck by another terrorist attack planned and launched from the same place that planned and launched 9/11 - his Administration would likely not be able to recover from that.

I was reading something (probably over on one of the Foreign policy blogs, they seem to be one of the few places you get intellent ideas.) That the Afgans maybe trible but they will come togather and form a national government. They only fall back on tribal connections in times of troubles. , such as the last 20 yrs.

Also that the Afgans were also very glad to be rid of the Taliban.
The problem is we went in and threw our support to the corupt warlords who were about the only group that the Afgan people disliked more than the Taliban.
In other words
It is Katrina all over again, another Bush screw up. They litter the landscape.

Jack

warren, happy to do it, but you just got out of my depth. The credit crisis is actually in my understanding a misnomer of sorts for lack of liquidity in the economy. That was in part at least caused by banks hoarding the money that came in from every source as the securitized products began to collapse. I know that automotive and housing industry downturns have contributed to the liquidity crisis, as well as downticks in consumer spending and a corresponding uptick in savings rates, but don't really know how much each of these has contributed and don't know what other factors have also contributed to any appreciable extent - because I don't know diddly about this stuff. I do appreciate your explanations - they give me a little insight I don't get otherwise.

Jamie, thanks for the "quote" vote of confidence, but I have to laugh. I meant for it to be the party of "Uh-oh"

Thoughts on banking and securitization.

I think the changes in law under Reagan allowing banks to open branches in any state produced a terrible outcome. It signaled the end of the era where a banker's primary responsibilities were to know his/her customers, and to make only prudent loans. Good bankers were also trusted advisers as to who were the good lawyers and accountants in town.

I see nothing wrong with securitization. That's essentially what a mutual fund is.

What has gone wrong is that the character of the loans in securitized portfolios has been misrepresented. Pogo, wouldn't that be fraud in the inducement or some such thing? Which begs the question, why should insurers pick-up the pieces for their policy holders when those holders were the miserable perps to start with?

And, if portfolios are accurately described when sold, there absolutely must be a mechanism for recharacterizing their quality as time moves forward. After all, every mutual fund is required to divulge their holdings periodically for all to see. Servicers of securitized portfolios must perform a like disclosure.

So the purpose of being in Afghanistan is a cya action in case we are attacked?

Drain the swamp?

oh god.... I'm back again.....

KGC.... Three Cups of Tea is the book we're doing for my upcoming book club Wednesday night.....

Warren... I'm glad that Obama has made it clear the US has no intention of occupying Afghanistan..... the real question is.... do the Afghanis believe him....
although your point about another terrorist attack launched from this area doing in the Obama administration is a good one....

"Afgans maybe trible"

lol looks like I'm having troubles with tribles,
You trekies know what I mean.

But
Afgans maybe tribal

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/03/the-afghan-surge.html#comment-214559

Pogo,

You're in luck. That's the way I read it.

Remember the good ol' days when we liked Afghanis and hated Soviets?

Remember the good ol' days when we armed Afghanis to kill Soviets?

Flashlight Worthy has a good list of books for young girls in case any one has one in need of role models and good images that still entertain

http://www.flashlightworthybooks.com/Books-Strong-Girls-Third-Fourth-Fifth-Grade/406?fwsource=rss

Remember the good ol' days when killing Afghanis bankrupted the Soviets?

Jack.....
it's trekkies and tribbles...... :0)

jamie, now that's scary.

Your lordship - oddly enough I do.

your lordship.....

remember the good ol' days when the Federation went after the Klingons....

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/03/the-afghan-surge.html#comment-214569

Ah, so your stepping out of the closet eh?

Reminder for the weekend "The Number 1 Ladies Detective Agency" debuts on HBO on Sunday. It's based on a very good series of books and is based in Botswana. If it lives up to the books it should be excellent.

http://www.reuters.com/article/oddlyEnoughNews/idUSTRE52P7A820090327?feedType=RSS&feedName=oddlyEnoughNews

Two more states hit double digit unemployment

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=102428910&ft=1&f=1001

pomegranites in lieu of poppies

http://www.economist.com/world/asia/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12708118

Methinks Afghanistan is just an excuse to keep troops in the region, support the NATO mission to stabilize the country, show our support for the elected government, blah, blah, blah. Planning an attack? haven't we heard this before? There are bad people out there who want to attack us ... Terrorists .... Actionable intelligence.... blah, blah, blah. Sound familiar? So do we start the body count anew, or do we get to carry over the deaths that occurred between 9/11 and this new surge?

I gotta run out for a bit - later.

oops, pomegranates

another story, but with pix

http://crooksandliars.com/nonny-mouse/want-win-war-afghanistan-forget-guns-t

Who's going to grow the poppies, then, if not the Afghanis?

Jack....
shhhhh..... don't tell anyone...... but I used to run Jonathan Frakes'.... who played Commander Riker on Star Trek The Next Generation.... fan club....

I didn't start it.... I let it's founder talk me into taking it over.... and I had no contact with him.....
but if Craig thinks he's learned a lot about human nature by hosting this blog.... he ought to try running a fan club..... it was an eye opener!

Temporarily stopping "terrorist"(sic) activity isn't change.

M'Lord

Poppy growing? Tobacco farmers in the US need new crops?

charity set up for the pomegranate project
http://www.pom354.com/index.html

Patd

Back in the late 80's I had a small lawn service one of my customers husband died of cancer and she went to live with her daughter whose husband was an exec. for caterpillar in Hong Kong. She brought back a bunch of where they had toured that part of the world including a visit to Thailand. In Thailand she took many pictures, from the bus, of opium poppies growing out in the field. They are a very pretty flower.

Jack

I'll grow the poppies if no one else will; I've always wanted to try it.

Maybe we should legalize pot and turn the opium addicts into stoners!!

on their adopt a tree (for 8 pounds) program, they should add the estimated statistic that one tree (guess a pomegranate tree would qualify) on average produces a year's worth of oxygen for a family of four.

http://www.pom354.com/donation.html

"...produces a year's worth of oxygen for a family of four. "

Ah, just planted a tree, let's procreate.

Why we have a deficit?
Here is part of the problem. I just got the annual report for Berkshire Hathaway that they send out to all stock holders. Flipping through it This caught my eye.
Federal income taxes.
2008 ------- $ 915 million
2007--------$ 5,740 million

Jack

We need to withdraw from the middle east entirely and let the Isrealis fight their own wars. All this bloodshed because the Isrealis want their little utopia in the most dangerous corner of the world.

Jamie and Warren- thank you for your thoughts. The middle east is just crazy and can't imagine it is ever going to change. I guess I would prefer to just send money and improve their lots in hope of less terrorists instead of our boys.

For those who just can't yet kick the habit- the natives in upstate sell a carton for 20 dollars and change.

Laird, I completely disagree.

We have our own interests in the ME that are completely independent of Israel's. By good fortune, on many of those instances our interests and Israel's coincide. Because of that, Israel has served as a low-cost proxy for our presence.

On top of that, we have our country's sponsorship of their existence in that region. I'm not willing to renege on that.

Warren , Pogo, Flatus

I Was listening to a former derivatives trader turned book writer /college professor explain how the system worked the other day on Fresh Air. A point he made was that it was very easy to get something that was junk bundle it and get the ratings agencies to give it a AAA rating. From what I've been reading I am beginning to believe that this may be the weak flaw in the system along with a lack of transparency that Fatus talked about .
What these bundled derivatives do is give all of us , world wide, access to the world money markets. This means more credit is available and cheaper credit, also. It, imo, is one of the reasons that we have seen such tremendous improvement in the human condition in places like Asia and South America.
IMO the system is a good thing but the system has major flaws that need to be fixed.
So when your bridge collapses from fatal flaw designs you don't quit making bridges. You redesign it eliminating the fatal flaws. That imo is what we should do in this case. Fix the problems and use it for all our benefits.

Jack

OSH

Are you planning on supplementing the income by a but of smuggling?

I had a cousin who lived in upstate NY. His first wife had a bad gambling habit. After she went through all the family savings she supported her habit by smuggling cigarettes from Canada.

Jack, I've read the descriptions of POWs gambling using cigarettes as the stakes. Like, I'll see your butt and raise you a half a smoke. You think that's what Sea is going to be doing?

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/03/the-afghan-surge.html#comment-214590

There's no honor in slaughter, Flatus.

Jack...
your 3:06 shows how complicated addiction can really be..... and to what troubles people will go to in order to scratch their favorite itch.....

Support for Israel, Support for the embargo on Cuba, Support for gun rights all have one thing in common. A very politically active minority that will consistently vote on this one issue. These one issue voters have made all three untouchable in modern American politics.

As far as our interests and Israel's interests coinciding?
I see very few times we have mutual interests in the middle east. Our only interest in the middle east is to see the oil keep flowing so the worlds economy keeps chugging along. Israel and Afghanistan have no oil so both are expendable if viewed strictly from a national interest point of view.
In fact Israel often act contrary to our national interest as stability is our most important need to keep the oil flowing.

Jack

Alexander and Afghanistan:

Nowhere else on Alexander the Great's 22,000-mile, 13-year march from Greece to the Punjab did he encounter more difficulties than in what was known in ancient times as Sogdiana.

In four quick years, beginning in 334 B.C., the young Macedonian king had won a succession of breathtaking victories, sweeping across Asia Minor into the heart of Persia. By 330, however, the Persian king Darius was dead and his murderer, Bessus, had usurped the throne and fled into the empire's easternmost province of Bactria-Sogdiana. Alexander and his men followed in pursuit, crossing the Hindu Kush and the brutal northern Afghanistan desert, eventually reaching the Oxus (modern Amu Darya).

North of the Oxus--the ancient sources are unclear exactly where--the land of the Bactrians ended and that of the Sogdians began, and it was here in Sogdiana, encompassed today by most of Uzbekistan and a bit of Tajikistan, that Alexander's fortunes changed. He successfully pursued Bessus across the Oxus, capturing and executing him, and took the Persian crown for himself in 329. Alexander continued on to the northernmost reaches of his new empire on the Jaxartes (modern Syr Darya) River, where he attempted to seal off the border between the settled Sogdians and the less predictable, nomadic Scythians on the opposite bank by establishing a permanent walled city on the river called Alexandria-Eschate, or Alexandria the Farthermost.

That act sparked a vicious rebellion by the Sogdians and their Scythian compatriots that was to mire Alexander in the region for three long years--more time than he would spend anywhere else on his campaign. His attempts to quell the rebellion would force him to build more fortresses in Bactria-Sogdiana than anywhere else on his route, and to bury more of his troops in its territory.

http://www.archaeology.org/0411/abstracts/alexander.html

flatus, protection of our interests in the middle east doesn't require that we increase our presence there beyond what it was prior to our invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan in my view. Aside from Israel, those interests are what - keeping the region stable so it can provide us (and our trade allies and competitors I might add) with oil? And our sponsorship of Israel's existence has nothing, zip, nada to do with Iraq or Afghanistan. And chest thumping about Iran - that advances our interests how? Now if you're saying we can fulfill our obligations in the region in some way other than combat troops on the ground serving as targets for cave dwellers, roadside bombers and rooftop snipers, I might buy that; but our current involvment there is pointless and does nothing to advance our interests in the region beyond what providing arms and ammo would. At least that's how I see it.

I'm assuming Clinton and Holbrook have quite a bit of influence on our overall Afghan (ME) policy? Not just the fighting with AQ.

" there is intelligence indicating the terrorists are still plotting in the border region - than there is a legitimate national security interest."

I knew this would be the "party line." Bomb 'em! By Gawd, we're Amurka!

Come on, Rez...blaming Hillary ain't gonna wash.

Oh, god, I think I just pissed myself laughing. I hate to make fun of Boner - OK, OK, I LOVE to make fun of Boner. CNN was just reporting that the Republican Budget he went before reporters with yesterday was a cover that had essentially nothing on the pages enclosed in it. There's a bit in this article about it.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/27/budget/index.html

The reporters on CNN weren't nearly as charitable in their assessment.

Blame, your word.

I agree with his approach as I heard him today.

Posted by: newpogo.myopenid.com Author Profile Page | March 27, 2009 3:26 PM

Thanks for saying it; now I don't have to.

Craig -
I would love to know how many people who have taken the same steps as you took this spring. Maybe I should have done tobacco seeds instead of corn. 5 years from now, 10 tobacco seeds from Amsterdam will be $42 dollars.

Patsi, He was hitting as much today on Pakistan as Afghan in his comments and mentioned Holbrooke by name as heading up new efforts in the region. You don't think those two had much input on the new strategy?

Apparently the GOP budget alternative had NO numbers in it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/27/dnc-ridicules-gop-for-num_n_180053.html

RFLMFAO. Boner, what a maroon - what an ultraviolet.

your lordship, you are welcome. I live to serve and just call 'em like I see 'em.

"You don't think those two had much input on the new strategy?"

Doesn't matter...he made it a campaign issue and everyone bought it.

OK this gave me a laugh
Look at the expression on all the faces of the team obama who are lined up behind him, I assume from th Afganistan press event.
Makes me want to draw little bubbles above their head and insert thoughts.

http://ricks.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2009/03/27/is_that_it

Jack

Patsi....
in all fairness to Rez..... I do recall where Hillary was in favor of sending more troops to Afghanistan during the primaries....

I disagreed with her on that stance then.... and I disagree with Obama's now....

Thx RR. . Beyond the military I was particularly referring to the new diplomatic efforts in both countries to enhance the governance and economic capacity of Afghanistan and Pakistan.

In fairness to Patsi, I brought up Hillary as a ploy hoping to temper any additional criticism of the Prez. :-) She reads me a book! lol

I'm really surprised about the many thousands of empty seats at NCAA championship basketball games..The latest UCONN game had tons of empty seats.

In Portland,every seat was sold and they could have sold many thousands more..such a good chance to see great basketball..

Rez

General policy on Afganistan is coming out of the department of defense.
The Afgan/pakistan problem from a diplomatic issue has been handed of to Holbrooke and from what I understand is being developed under the national security advisor's office. I am sure HRC is involved somewhat.. ex. she helped Holbrooke negotiate between Pakistan president and the opposition party the other day. But she has many other things on her plate too.
Jack

Rez

The election is over. Your guy won the hot seat. It comes with the job.

Jack

Assume for a moment that there are scads of AQ and other nasty terrorists in the Afghan/Paki border area and that they are huddled over laptops planning attacks against us. Also assume that we don't realy know exactly who they are or where they are doing this. (not such a stretch, BTW). How does sending 4000 more troops in (I assume that's in addition to the 17,000 already committed) do squat to address this problem in that region? Pakistan has not given us permission to operate within its borders, and I seem to recall that there is some controversy about the limits of what permission we have in Afghanistan. I may very well be wrong, but how do we even know that the targets of our incursion in to that area are situated such that we can get to them without invading a country - and one with nuclear capabilities? This just seems like a fool's errand to me.

"In fairness to Patsi, I brought up Hillary as a ploy hoping to temper any additional criticism of the Prez. :-)"

LMAO, Rez....

Jack...Pogo,,,,,,Bingo!!,,,on your posts about our involvement in the Middle East.

Not only that,,,we have been helping Israel, but doing it unlawfully,,,and the same for helping Afghanistan,,,and India,,,every time that we gave them $ we broke our own law of 1975, 76, or 77 we were not to give assistance to country's,developing technology for nuclear weapons proliferation,,,If it wasn't for the most powerful lobby that there is the Jewish lobby we would not be over there,,,and for the oil that area has,,it is as simple as that to me,( blood for oil),,,and Afghanistan will ask for $ and get it from us,any time that they want it,,,all they have to say is ,it is for fighting the Taliban,,,that we helped create No?,we are the (suckers) goose that lays their golden eggs,,,how is this $ spent,,,anyone track it,,,,how much of it winds up in the pockets of the politicians,,,many ,,many more questions to ask,,,but we won't get any answers,,,Obama will send an additional 4,000 troops int there now,,,,how is he any diff than Bush? in this regard.

ah Rez....
thanks for admitting that to me..... :0)

in all fairness to Obama..... he is saying that the buck stops with himself...... that he takes full responsibility for what happens.....
I don't see him as saying "it's Geithner's fault" if his administrations economic policies don't work.....

Pogo.... I am agreeing with everything you've written today regarding the Middle East.....

Thanks, Renee - not exactly a first, is it? :-)

hey, solar - get a new name there, buddy?

http://img10.imageshack.us/my.php?image=560106imposter.jpg

Solarcrete

Posted by: whskyjack Author Profile Page | March 27, 2009 4:09 PM

I know Jack,

Life a beach without a little BSing.

It's poets day anyway. soon be time for a couple of cool ones.

All the talk about cigarettes and gambling gives me hope for a enrichment of revenues back home. :)

No foolin,,,,a sharp southern lawyerman type I guess :-))

well, I'mnot sure exactly how sharp.

Rez, my ex bro-in-law was a member of a POETS club - had a designated meeting date of the friday before Mardi Gras each year. fun bunch of guys - terrible hangovers on S.

"wasn't for the most powerful lobby that there"

That would be the NRA?
ADM
AARP
Bankers

Ya know solar there are a lot of powerful lobbys out there.

Jack

Well, as Rez noted, POETS.

Everyone have a nice weekend.

Jack- Ha, not a bad idea though- at least I could take them out with me on a Saturday night and they would pay for my drinks. I could double the price and a pack would still be less than a mixed drink. One can buy up to 49 cartons a month.

First a follow up for XREPUBLICAN from last night's comments:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090327/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_rocket_defense;_ylt=Alj1YDZYsd26QQKXUjwlgFpvaA8F This system would be of great importance to US forces as adversaries reach mobile missile capabilities.

Now I am not sure Cragi, you are suggesting Obama avoid Afghanistan like LBJ and Kennedy should have avoided Vietnam. How many vortes did Obama get by pulling the centrist "Afghanistan is a war we cannot afford to lose"? As for Obama's strategy Craig, here are some comments:

http://terrorwonk.blogspot.com/2009/03/new-af-pak-strategy-more-effort-on.html

and

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b1787f4c-197a-11de-9d34-0000779fd2ac,dwp_uuid=f39ffd26-4bb2-11da-997b-0000779e2340.html?nclick_check=1

Well the Saudis are also funding a new extremist group in Gaza to challenge Hamas power. The problem is that several nations fund those who are against us. This must stop. I am amused that Biden and Obama said "no lessons" can be applied from Iraq to Afghanistan. Seems that was bullshit, wasn't it? A great danger here is that with more civilians sent in, the more dangers exist. The question, unlike Vietnam will be whether the Northern Alliance deems the number of allied troops shows staying power. Now that Obama is President, he is not calling for so many more troops; instead he is blasting allies for poor showing as is Levin and others. We see another hole in the BAD BUSH blame game, as Obama sees what the real problems are. And Obama has not offered much more money than Bush did.

The biggest question concerns Pakistan and the idea Iran or even Russia will help us in Afghanistan is a lot of discharging wind....lol.

Ok,,,Jack, U have a point,,,but they are up there with the rest of em

Sorry, I meant Craig not Cragi........

I should just keep it LB...lol

"Some Europeans worry that if the summit is seen as little more than a rubber-stamp for barely digested US conclusions on Afghanistan, it will be hard to win support for more resources for the conflict." from my last link above.

Funny, some people here say the same thing about domestic straties and bills. Perhaps this is a new hallmark. Rush through bills and policies, rubber stamp them and then vet. Didn't Obama say he would reverse this "Bush" characteristic? I guess not.

In the end, DOD did not want to put many more troops in Afghanistan, but rather wanted to wait and see what happens. Iran is pushing for the US to exit there and so maybe, Obama will play the game for now with even more troops as leverage. A bit different than Vietnam and of course there wasn't a Pakistan next to that country.

You don't need to correct you're typos, Max; we know your literate.

Just watching Michelle Bachmann - If that woman had one more brain cell, she would rattle.

Every time she stands up, she proposes something that just came out of the latest round of right wing wacko conspiracy emails. Now I know some use this sort of thing to rouse the rabble, but unlike her Republican cohorts, I have a sneaking suspicion that she actually believes it.

Bachmann really is an idiot. And you are right....I don't think her BS is rhetoric, I think she's a nut.

Not quite on Madoff's level, but a scam nonetheless:

http://tinyurl.com/cfuu5z

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/03/the-afghan-surge.html#comment-214599

STurgeone,

That piece on the history of the area is why I just refer to the collection as "The Yucky Stans"

Have fun locating all the countries in the area

http://www.ilike2learn.com/ilike2learn/MidEast.html

CBob

You weren't here for the morning thread. KGC was writing about Johnny Appleseed

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/03/smoking-is-now-only-for-the-ri.html#comment-214488

I told her to ask for stories from you.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/03/the-afghan-surge.html#comment-214614

Jack, The headline above the group is even more telling: "Madam Secretary - Shadow Government"

While watching his presentation, I kept my eyes on her. Her eyes barely moved and her mouth never changed. All my political bells went off with a very loud clang clang clang. Not in a conspiratorial way, but rather that there is something going on that is still very much in hiding and this latest announcement is what they feel the American public needs to know at this time.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/03/the-afghan-surge.html#comment-214636

Max

Don't worry unless you type it as "Corgi". We might have to check the length of his legs.

Yes, Hillary did look stern, didn't she?

Bachmann is a true believer in my opinion. Maybe she's one of those who believe what the want to believe, altho why someone would want to believe all that crap is beyond me.

We are working on being hot here. It's too soon!

"You don't need to correct you're typos, Max; we know your literate."

Laird, that's too funny!

Just realized why this site is so much fun. It was a slightly longer form Twitter before Twitter was Twitter. A multi state (national) conversation about issues of the day.

Wow - RebRenee gave a grade !!! We get to start some averages.....

The line I liked in Craigs post today was " off the record" conversations with Journalist.

Time has changed....

Math question for all of you:
How can 2 x $16.93 amount to $54.11?
Posted by: Corey | March 27, 2009 12:06 PM

That is easy..... Anything and everything. Tax em baby?

How about that $19.00 airfare then when you add it all up it is 60 something - but still a bargin

" I do recall where Hillary was in favor of sending more troops to Afghanistan during the primaries...disagreed with her on that stance then.... and I disagree with Obama's now...."

Agreed, Renee...I didn't like the idea no matter where it came from....

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/03/the-afghan-surge.html#comment-214652

Patsi/Renee

I'm in the wait and see on this one since I was for troops in Afghanistan way back when Bush did the whole incredibly stupid shock and awe in Iraq. There's several years of ignoring Afghanistan now and I think we really need to do something more there.

I bought 2 $16.93 tickets to see Luke Bryan (country singer) at a bar in Grand Rapids on May 16th. My total cost from Ticketmaster for these tickets was $54.11.

Corey

Will Ticketmaster be sending a limo for you? Hand delivering the tickets? That's a mighty hefty ticket processing charge.

My feelings about Afghanistan from the beginning were that we should not have tried to occupy the country. We slaughtered so many there that Iraq or not, even moderate Arabs were turned radical. We are not going to have "victory" there. Not now, not ever.

Corey

Wasn't there something awhile back about Ticketmaster flogging customers off to some subsidiary with higher charges for the tickets? I vaguely remember one performer saying they wouldn't deal with Ticketmaster unless they stopped the practice.

Found it. It was about Springfield tickets

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2009/02/ticketmaster_to_end_reselling.html

The Wiki also outlines their normal charges

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ticketmaster

You might want to take up full throated bitching as this can sometimes get you a refund if the charges are exhorbitant.

SFGate
Back to Article
SFGate
Spokane residents smuggle suds over green brands

By NICHOLAS K. GERANIOS, Associated Press Writer

Friday, March 27, 2009

(03-27) 15:34 PDT Spokane, Wash. (AP) --

The quest for squeaky-clean dishes has turned some law-abiding people in Spokane into dishwater-detergent smugglers. They are bringing Cascade or Electrasol in from out of state because the eco-friendly varieties required under Washington state law don't work as well. Spokane County became the launch pad last July for the nation's strictest ban on dishwasher detergent made with phosphates, a measure aimed at reducing water pollution. The ban will be expanded statewide in July 2010, the same time similar laws take effect in several other states.

But it's not easy to get sparkling dishes when you go green.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/03/27/national/a114954D12.DTL&type=printable

I cannot believe there isn't a environmentally sound soap for dishwashers that works. I think this is the right thing to do but the supporters of the ban should be more active in finding solutions to the problem --suggesting everyone get a water softener isn't helpful.

A few responses to stuff above:

1. The Israelis have mixed feelings about Afghanistan. They are happy that Iran's mullahs have a deadly enemy on their NE border. Likud and Shas are hawkish. Labor, Beitaynu Yisrael, and Kadima are much more pragmatic.

2. There are several Jewish lobbies, and they have mixed feelings about Iraq and Afghanistan. The most famous and wealthy, AIPAC, has views that mirror those of Likud - hawkish, intransigent, and always marketing fear. Others Israeli and Jewish lobbies appear to be very different.

3. Persons and corporations who own large stocks of oil find that having turmoil in the Middle East keeps prices high. It makes more sense to look to Morgan Stanley, the Oil Corps, Saudi Arabia, and Iran rather than Israel or Jews if you hope to find people who favor military adventures in the Middle East.

4. The Northern Alliance told us not to arm and train the Taliban. The reagan/bush refusal to heed was our first failure. The withdrawal from Afghanistan following the defeat of the Soviets was our second failure. It is difficult to see how we might once again gain the trust of the Northern Alliance, yet if we are to succeed, we must have the Alliance on our side. There is no alternative to having friends on the ground.

5. LB's remark that all of this stems from Israelis wanting their paradise in this corner of the world has no validity. It is a cute phrase, but it could also be applied to Fatah, Hamas, Hizbullah, and Syria. The implication is that the Israelis don't belong in their home, despite the fact that Jews have been the majority population in the land for the last 3,000 years. If their right to be where they are is questionable, then LB's right to call Americahome is even more questionable. What do you think, Rez ?

Patsi,

Dang, just reviewed the tete-a-tete today and did I screw up with my typo or what! That should have been " She reads me like a book" Obviously you knew that by your response. Damn some days I could screw up a wet dream 8-) lol

Seriously though, I read and heard from two sources that there are two camps around the Afghan issue. One (Biden) promoting the minimalist pov and Holbrooke/ HRCs', which advocate a nation building approach. Apparently theirs won out. Who knows what goes on up there.

Now I'm out for a few margaritas. doubles :)

Posted by: xrepublican Author Profile Page | March 27, 2009 8:07 PM

3000 years? Was 1917 really that long ago? Tempus fugit.

I'm literate and Craig ain't got no stimpy legs.....okay, I take that one.

As for Craig’s theme in a round about way:

Well, I think this http://michaeltotten.com/ is simply great journalism because it informs us at the level of people without pushing an agenda. Brilliant in these days of message v content. We need to understand the people, the positive effects and the dangers lurking so Americans understand what is at stake besides themselves. Iraq could eventually break the status quo or return to Hell.

Afghanistan is a bit different creature than Iraq, but Iraq, Pakistan, Iran, Yemen, Syria affect the outcome in Afghanistan, especially Pakistan.

Iraq holds particular importance to us as Americans given the incredible sacrifice our our soldiers and commitment. Simply put. we removed Saddam and his gene line going back to Berlin from any future power.. We convinced enough Iraqis a nascent Democratic Federalism was worth uniting for enough to oppose terrorists, criminals and foreign elements. We created a secular central government strong and yet independent enough to secure with our critical sacrifice enough security to talk and lead lives. We brought together three warring sides of religious conflict. We should be proud of the soldiers, civilians and political theory behind this prospect and less about when and where Saddam would have caused the world great harm. We might remember these “lessons” from Iraq along with the mistakes we made or might still make when talking about Afghanistan. We must convince tribal leaders there to accept a Federalism that will eventually protect them from extremists, to accept a power sharing central government with enough force to protect women, provide equal justice, and ensure a lasting peace.

These principles are at the top of America'a unZinnian legacy. It flies in the face of depictions of American Empire and Domination. As one Iraq said above, security and war are still the most important issue remaining today. Without security, people can't move forward and talk, debate and protect. To enable that stability, not the boiling status quo of despots seeking WMD, helps us all. That is what the surge and effort did in Iraq without Saddam. Totten shows how complex and fragmented this process still is and we should expect nothing less in Afghanistan..

Obama connected to 9/11 today in framing Afghanistan. I have always said that would be his most powerful suit to wear. He was right today about a number of things. Totten points to how difficult the peace and yet how resilient the people who many dream as we dream. If we fail to understand the human element, the transforming forces of the street, "our best laid plans afghan a glee".

I heard Tweety and Keith (with Jonathan Alter) both wondering where this idea of one world currency that Michelle Bachman is proposing to block is coming from -- to them seemingly out of thin air. I've been hearing it word-of-mouth from sources that lead me to believe it's originating (or being passed around) among right-wing religious groups. They apparently are raising the specter of a return to the days of "Roman coin" when you couldn't buy anything unless you had money with the image of Caesar.

"Obama connected to 9/11 today in framing Afghanistan. I have always said that would be his most powerful suit to wear. He was right today about a number of things."

Max, STOP THAT - It makes me nervous when I agree with you. :-)

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/03/the-afghan-surge.html#comment-214670

Ivy, I received the email a couple of days ago. One of my closest friends is married to a far right off the edge wacko. She sends me copies of everything he sees with ???? What do YOU think? She loves him, but his beliefs are scary. I've got Snopes on speed dial. :-)

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/03/the-afghan-surge.html#comment-214672

Jamie --

I have a few like that too and sadly, I'm related to them.

XREPUBLICAN,

Carter and Zbig armed the Afghani soon to be Taliban and AQ to go after the Soviets using them to draw the Red Army there in the first place.

We were not there in person right after the Soveits left. If you mean after 9/11, it was the world's obligation to help on the ground and vote smart sanctions on Saddam. They refused both. We didn't however abandon Afghanistan.

The Northern Alliance withdrew to themselves when they sensed the WORLD was not about to take on the resurgent Taliban, but rather "talk" to them in Pakistan and Kabul. We can and must change that perception because the central gov need them.

Fatah/Arafat was a direct blood offshoot of the Grand Mufti who through the Muslim Brotherhood popularized the new Nazi/Muslim brand of Jew hating in the Middle East. Hamas has the blessing of the Muslim Brotherhood who now lean towards Iran. The Grand Mufti from Berlin must be spinning mad between his virgins.

Fatah up until recently was a terrorist group and certain wings still are. Hizb'Allah is a terror group proxy for Iran. They want their Paradise where Israel today and long ago existed. Assad uf Syria is a menace and promotes Syrian neonazi groups among other things horrible. Hitchens was beateb up for defacing their posters IN LEBANON. Assad wants Lebanon for his Paradise?

I would hardly compare the vision of Ben Gurian to the miscreant leaders of terrorist groups calling for the removal of Israel. Not that you are.....

Jamie, Obama would make a great centrist President. Unfortunately, it is not a suit he can put on and take off, like the others. I have a deep suspicion his play today doesn't run deep enough in policy details, ideological conviction or a view that connects enough threatening dots. I will however, support him whenever I find common cause until evidence convinces me that he has soiled the 9/11 suit he brought today. At least he wasn't Rudy......

" it was the world's obligation to help on the ground and vote smart sanctions on Saddam"

Max - Not quite sure what you meant here. Iraq had nada to do with 9/11. It was pretty well boxed up on the northern and sourther ends with flyovers. Invading Iraq was monumentally stupid

" I will however, support him whenever I find common cause until evidence convinces me that he has soiled the 9/11 suit he brought today."

Max, this could get me in trouble, but I think that outside of the social positions to the left, I think that the President is a moderate. This is not going to please the left and the right will really really be unhappy with the social agenda.

I don't think that there is a real hair's breadth difference between Clinton and Obama.

I agree Jamie. I also think issues should be addressed instead of people.

Labeling someone "far left" or "far right" is an acceptable way to attack the person instead of taking on their positions.

I am off. Have a good night everyone.

Keep on keepin on!

The world in dealing with Iraq and Afghanistan (not that they were directly connect to each other) required 1. help in Afghanistan and 2. agree to smart sanctions against Saddam. The world did neither in dealing with these serious threats.

Still years later, China and Russia hold up smarter sanctions against Iran (and Obama at the moment) and the world including NATO fail to support the cause enough in Afghanistan.

Saddam and AQ were connected to each other simply as emergent terror threats. How would Saddam use terror and get WMD? Read his interrogations or the secret cabinet session tapes the US found in Iraq. His plan was simple and obtainable. See Piro.

Green Dish Washing:

Arm & Hammer Essentials for Clothes. Use 1/2 cap in Dishwasher.

Should work fine.

Oh - and I meant "acceptable" in our political culture - even though I don't accept it personally cause I think it misses the point.

Night all!

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/03/the-afghan-surge.html#comment-214678

Warren should you return when I say "far left' or "far right", I'm usually talking about the political extremes on the spectrum

When I say "wacko far right", it mean the group that even the far right isn't talking to except on election day.

Well, another time I can list those things Obama is promoting that is Left of where Hillary ran for President.

We are left with an image of Obama playing the roles at times of a moderate and at other times a deer in more Liberal headlights. That is the problem and so far in order to push his agenda through Congress, he has moved more to his Left.

I am willing to give him more time and see which suit he decides is most fitting. It is only a matter of time for events to define character. I hope he rises to the occasion in fine centrist spirit. Unfortunately, his record doesn't reassure. Frankly, I think his term would be better served as a bipartisan moderate simply trying to break the log jam of status quo. Kind of what I hoped Hillary would do. He has to pull the stick out of the carrot's ass.

Max

As long as the Republicans send nothing to Congress other than neo cons and crazies, bi-partisan is a little hard to achieve. They simply don't have much of a center left outside of two or three senators that barely get the time of day.

Jamie, since I have no horse in this race, the Republicans are wasting time fighting with themselves. They really must learn to get over themselves. I am however, loath to excuse Obama for the sins of Republicans. Still, if Republicans were SO outraged by Obama, they would unite instead of moderate conservative witch hunting of late.

Failed policies will quickly unite Republicans and the public will change focus and forget Bush. Hell, if terror strikes, people will remember Bush in a good light....lol

With conservatives in-fighting, now would be a great time to PLAY THEIR BLUFF and get a bunch of conservative together to work on bills together, That would work better than playing the RUSH card. And I do mean the double meaning.

If their right to be where they are is questionable, then LB's right to call Americahome is even more questionable. What do you think, Rez ?

*tear streams down Rez's cheek*

From laughing so hard at your ass! lol.

What are you guys talking about. . .let me see. .it may be a while, I'll have to have a smoke of it. . . and finish watching the Zags get their ass kicked.8-)

The Jewish home land was a 19th century idea by liberals at the time it was their solution for the "Jewish problem". Most Jews didn't think much of the idea until the 1940's when Hitler showed them the right wing solution to the "Jewish problem". Then it looked like a good idea. The problem is it was a 19th century European idea and like most 19th century ideas nobody ask the brown skinned local inhabitants what they thought of the idea. It turned out they didn't like the idea and aren't real fond of it to this day.
But they are just a bunch of brown skinned peoples so who cares.

Jack

Hey,

You’re definitely a Southern Republican, when you let your 12 year old daughter smoke at the dinner table,----in front of HER kids.

Of course, you could substitute "West Virginian" for Southern Republican. Either works just fine.

Jack

The "Jews" never left Israel. There was a diapora that spread throughout the world, but there were always Jews in Israel and they had brown skins too.

Sure the British White Paper after WW I added impetus to the idea of an Aliyah, but even Mohammed acknowledged that "The Children of the Book" were present and to be treated with respect.

Whatever sins the Israelis may have committed in the preservation of their homeland, I'm a little tired of the world always demanding that they be the ones to make concessions to back up or give back.

It is a tiny piece of land and after 60 years, it is time for the Arabs to get over it and make peace.

going to have a drink on that one,,,

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/03/the-afghan-surge.html#comment-214688

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/03/the-afghan-surge.html#comment-214691

And they will keep expanding that little piece of land,,,by whatever means possible,,,,,will they stop the settlements into other peoples lands????,,you know that they won't,,,and with our help,,,many,,many will be killed for that land,,,and let see what reasons are given for the blood shed. Once again there are people in the Gaza,,,that go all the way back to Jesus of Nazareth,,,,,,I bet there there is no proof that the village of Nazareth even existed!!

Try reading about how far they expanded. How far they withdrew and what happened every time they retracted inside their original borders.

If your children can't go shopping or dancing on a Saturday night without their pieces being splattered all over the surrounding buildings, you tend to want some distance between you and the people wearing or driving bombs.

Yes they should get out of the west bank, but without a demilitarized zone or a firm and enforced peace agreement, it will just be more of the same.

Let me clean that up a little ,,,,There are Palestinians that live,,,and have lived on the same piece of land ,,since the time of Jesus,,,,do you want them to be forced out of that property??? and if there is proof that Nazareth existed,,,proof by an Archaeological find,,or something documented,,,I will never say another word about this subject...good night now,,thanks

Jamie

In 1900 12% of the population in what is now called Israel and the occupied territories was Jewish. The European Jews, who colonised and ,(with the connivance of the British government) usurped the rights of the indigenous peoples, had not had roots in that area in over a 1000 years. This was not their homeland any longer. Their homeland was back in Europe.

As to the "get over it"comment how very 19th century.
As you said the deed was done but the ones it was done to are still alive today so the memory is fresh and the grievance is deep. I suspect the very denial of their grievance by everyone cause more suicide bombings than anything.
As they say " no justice, no peace" or "Know justice, know peace"

Jack

The Arabs and the Jews have lived on that land in various tribal configurations and through many religious permutations since the surrounding caves held fires and furs.

In 1948, those Arabs who chose to stay in Israel stayed. They now comprise about 20% of the population. Those who chose to leave got screwed by their Arab brethern and confined to camps.

Arguing about who was there first is just plain assinine. It is time for peace.

Posted by: maxtrue | March 27, 2009 9:11 PM : "Carter and Zbig armed the Afghani soon to be Taliban and AQ to go after the Soviets using them to draw the Red Army there in the first place."

[A pal of mine was in Afghanistan during the Carter years. His testimony has been that we did not aid the taliban/aq until 1981.]

maxtrue continued : "We were not there in person right after the Soveits left. If you mean after 9/11, it was the world's obligation to help on the ground and vote smart sanctions on Saddam. They refused both. We didn't however abandon Afghanistan."

[saddam had nothing to do with 9/11. Britain, Canada, Australia, France, Germany, Korea (the REAL Korea), Poland, Czechoslovakia, Italy, Iran, Japan, and others provided help in Afghanistan. Besides the Northern Alliance.]

The Northern Alliance withdrew to themselves when they sensed the WORLD was not about to take on the resurgent Taliban, but rather "talk" to them in Pakistan and Kabul. We can and must change that perception because the central gov need them.

[Actually, the Northern Alliance got their asses kicked by Taliban supported by mercenaries paid for by Saudi Arabian and the Gulf States' Wahabi fanatics.]

Fatah/Arafat was a direct blood offshoot of the Grand Mufti who through the Muslim Brotherhood popularized the new Nazi/Muslim brand of Jew hating in the Middle East. Hamas has the blessing of the Muslim Brotherhood who now lean towards Iran. The Grand Mufti from Berlin must be spinning mad between his virgins.

[1. arafat CLAIMED he was nephew of the nazi mufti. arafat's testimony about anything is suspect. His family made tons of money in the Gulf States. 2. The brotherhood are happy to take Iraqnian money, since they have none of their own. The bros are devout Sunnis of ther Hanbali school. Iran is Shi'a. If the brotherhood were in Iran, it would be exterminated. If the mullahs were under the brothers, they'd be exterminated. The nazi mufti is in Iblis, the Muslim word for hell along with possible nephew arafat]

Fatah up until recently was a terrorist group and certain wings still are. Hizb'Allah is a terror group proxy for Iran. They want their Paradise where Israel today and long ago existed. [For 560 years, the Holy Land was a Muslim Province - not quite the same as paradise, although the inhabitants sided with Abu Bakr's army against the Byzantines (same in Egypt)]Assad uf Syria is a menace and promotes Syrian neonazi groups among other things horrible. Hitchens was beateb up for defacing their posters IN LEBANON.

[This may be the only good thing we can say about the assad crime family] Assad wants Lebanon for his Paradise?

[Na. assad wants the Atlantic to Manilla for his paradise]

I would hardly compare the vision of Ben Gurian to the miscreant leaders of terrorist groups calling for the removal of Israel. Not that you are.....

[Certainly not. Arabs have Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Makka, and Medinat in which to enjoy the raisons of upright life. The noble Q'ran does not claim the land of Israel, so how can Muslims ?

It is hard to picture you taking the side of Ben Gurian, the Socialist. Personally, I miss Abba Eban. Netanyahu is a pathetic john, whose moral insufficiency doesn't deservethe rank of civil servant, let alone the PM's office. Howsomever that may be, he stands head and shoulders above the Syrian dentist, the Sudanese genocide, and the general run of Arab kleptarchs]

"If your children can't go shopping or dancing on a Saturday night without their pieces being splattered all over the surrounding buildings"

It is what happens when you marginalise and screw a people over that bad.
A bit like when different native American tribes' anger would boil over and they would lash out , kill and torture men women and children.

Hey, Xrep, in the middle east, terrorist today statesman tomorrow. Happens on all sides

Jack

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/03/the-afghan-surge.html#comment-214700

If that were the case Max they should be blowing up the Egyptians, Syrians and Jordanians because those are the people that screwed them over.

Friday Night Foreign Policy Hoe-Down!

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/03/the-afghan-surge.html#comment-214702

None of them are sitting on their land, so they will have to get in line.

The Charlie Daniels Band - The Devil Went Down To Haifa
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDm_ZHyYTrg

LB,
Jews have been the majority in the Holy Land since the time of Saul, if not earlier. I don't know what you mean by 1917, but if you mean that it was Turkish before that date, true. Before the British Mandate, the majority in the Holy Land was Jewish subjects of Turkey. In the 1800s the Old City of Jerusalem was given to a group of Jewish mystics, Kehillat Beth El, to tax and keep order for the Caliph.

The Turks (Ottoman & Mamlukes) took the Holy Land from the Egyptian Fatimids, who took it from the heirs of Saladin, a Kurd, who took it from the genocidal crusaders, who took it from the Seljuk/Ghuzz in 1097. The Ghuzz took it from the Abassid Arabs, who took it from the Umayyad Arabs, who took it from the Byzantines 636 - 640. The Byzantines inherited it from the Romans, who stole it from the Maccabees, a Jewish dynasty. All through those years, Jews remained the majority population. Before the Maccabees, there was a 200 year period when the land was under the heel of the Macedonian Seleucids and a 70 year period of 'Babylonian Exile,' when the leading families of the land were held captive in Mesopotamia. Before that, the land was under continuous Jewish rule, back to Saul, the Judges, and Joshua, ca 1200 - 1400 BC.

Perhaps you meant 1917 B.C., but that would be 100 years too earlier than Abraham & Isaac.

Jamie --

You're doing a good job in the vanguard tonight. Thank you...I'm with you.

Your Lordship

How about next time I just get in the middle of a gun control debate. Or go to Miami and have a rational discussion aout Fidel.
Night all

Jack

Yeah, xrep; when it comes down to it, I don't really care... I just know it's going to end badly.

...I care a little bit, but I don't feel like argiuing now, and this is a topic that inevitably pisses off someone.

WhskyJack,

I believe that in 1900 12% of the entire Province of Syria was Jewish, including Amman, Beirut, Sidon, Tyre, Homs, Hama, Aleppo, and Damascus - besides Jerusalem, Haifa, and Akko. The ancestors of nearly half of the present population of Israel came from Central Asia, Africa, India, Iran, and Arab countries - the brown people you are referring to.

Solar,

Who mentioned evicting the Palestinians ? Not me. Israel has Arabs. In fact, Israel is the only country in the Middle East that allows Arabs to own land and engage in free and fair elections. Conversely, there is not a single Arab country that allows its Jews to own land or vote.

"Or go to Miami and have a rational discussion aout Fidel."

Jack,

You do that and I favor recognizing Cuba. On gun control I favor registration and limitations on assault weapons (not the ones liberals call assault because they look like them ... the real thing). Other than that fire away folks.

Good timely topic that ties in with history speculation.

Nice work, Craig.

tt

BREAKING NEWS

Policeman accidentally arrests judge dressed as convict for costume party. Cop learned never to book a judge by his cover.

Go to sleep Cosmo

Champ, er. .LB, I think your 12:24 is on the money. I'm of the same mind.

I've been unconscious for years.

*L* @ COSMO!

tt

It seems to me that linking saddam and alqaeda based on their common love of terrorism and lust for WMDs is considerably weaker than the financial and military links both had with senile bush, cheney, and rumsfeld.

saddam may have admitted to dreaming of WMDs, but is was the reagan/bush regime that befriended Brezhnev's old pal. It was rumsfeld who hugged him and took orders for weapons. It was cheney who passed on those orders, and it was senile bush who filled the orders and called saddam, "Our best friend in the Middle East." Later, it was arch-hypocrite jim baker who lied to the world to cover up saddam's use of poison gas on Iranian soldiers and Kurdish families. If we are to take you seriously about the subject, maxtrue, we should probably have invaded the bush crime family homeland before we attacked Iraq.

Oops, I forgot to mention the bush crime family funding, arming, and training al qaeda.

They armed saddam AND al qaeda. Now there is a terrorist group that deserved the abu Ghraib treatment, if anyone did !

I don't think it's going to end badly. I might, but it won't. I look forward to a happy 3 or 4 state solution.

Good night, all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Fv-PV-5ZnE

American Dreamers...Goran Bregoviac

In The Death Car...We're Alive....(Iggy Pop---Goran Brogovic)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Fv-PV-5ZnE

proper link to above post:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sG2Vj86B2hg&feature=related

Well, I respectfully disagree, XREP -- I think this Afghan adventure will end badly. And I am already havng deja vu at the cheerleading to more war. 9/11!!! America's Bravest!!! Victory!!! This is making me sick.

Sorry, but I see blood dripping off a lot of liberal teeth now.

Oh, patsi, I feel ya..but Obama campaigned and debated on this stance, and all the shouting my man Dennis Kucinich said about these two wars was lost in the rush to push Obama to the top.
I see no reason to be surprised....irritated, of course, but we knew this was coming.
I knew we were sinking into the future muck last summer when the race was between HRC and Obama , both extreme hawks , really.
You know what bugs the shit outta me? That goddam US Embassy in Baghdad...why do we need that white elephant, with its recent history of slave labor (to build it) and the horrible waste it has been for taxpayers. Crooked contractore have bled the US Treasury dry building it, it is one of the disgraces of the war, and Obama should stop the bleeding and shut it down.
It's time to watch this video...ALL OF US !!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXnJVkEX8O4

Pete Seeger "Waist Deep inthe Big Muddy (the Big Fool Said to Push On)"

"I see no reason to be surprised....irritated, of course, but we knew this was coming."

Yes, we did, Dex.

And I understand -- and understood -- the need to remove ourselves carefully. But to escalate and start chanting 9/11! just kills me.

Some won't take the time to click on the video so I am posting the final two verses. The commentary at YouTube about this video is interesting.

"
Now I'm not going to point any moral —
I'll leave that for yourself.
Maybe you're still walking, you're still talking,
You'd like to keep your health.
But every time I read the papers, that old feeling comes on,
We're waist deep in the Big Muddy
And the big fool says to push on.

Waist deep in the Big Muddy,
The big fool says to push on.
Waist deep in the Big Muddy,
The big fool says to push on.
Waist deep, neck deep,
Soon even a tall man will be over his head.
We're waist deep in the Big Muddy,
And the big fool says to push on. "

RE: Pete Seeger...yes, Dex. I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

and patsi, I am the one who got a sore finger typing "CUT AND RUN !!" here at Crawfordsville for two , three years.
I hate both these wars and all the lying that has ensued.
It was over five years ago , wasn't it, when the burquas were said to be history, the Taliban was crushed, Afghanistan was a fixed, done deal? Remember those TV specials and all that gushing? The US public bought it hook and line.

It came down to selecting a presidential candidate without having peace as a factor...they were and are ALL hawks!
I love HRC, I voted for her in our Primary, but I hated her support of the Iraq war effort.
I had to vote for her because she had the best plan for working people. I still believe she would have been a great, fantastic President, and then I voted for Obama in November because he deserved the job. He vanquished all my other faves, Edwards, Kucinich, HRC...so be it.
Edwards would be doing the exact same thing Obama is, and so would Hillary.
After all this time, I have hopes that ObL will be caught and hanged, but I don't believe he'll be caught.
The odd thing is that Bush never even really tried to get to him...with all the satellites and spy stuff, in 8 years , never even a hot lead? What TFF ??

Dex -- we are on the exact same page. And you know what, your Pete Seeger video reminded me of the song I think I first heard him sing...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VucczIg98Gw&feature=related

And remember the great Tom Paxton line: "It's a lesson too late for the learning."

Thanks for the Seeger song, patsi...somehow I missed it all these years...I like it.

The Paxton son you hint at is my fave Paxton song, too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voqL5ksOuoo&feature=related

off to dreamland zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

gig acheived.......mustang sally accomplished

two takes on flipping the switches

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/mar/27/earth-hour-climate-change-wwf

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/mar/27/china-earth-hour-tibet

Copyright op-ed that should be of interest to many of us:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123819841868261921.html

What no brawl this time Sturge?
Was that jerk there again?

Flatus, I'm not following wgat this is about? Is Google asking for rights to published works?

Exactly, Patsi. And evidently they've caused the creation of class-action purportedly to represent the authors, but in fact screwing them.

If the article is accurate, then you are certainly one of the people who will be adversely affected.

It never ends.

But then we have good news. UPS will no longer advertise on O'Reilly!

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/03/27/ups-oreilly/

Book Rights Registry (BRR)

that acronym says it all..... chilling

"It never ends"

patsi, are you responding to the class action lawyers screwing their clients or that personally you are "one of the people who will be adversely affected"? or both.

Absolutely opposed to this violation of author's rights. Gutenberg Project has been making "out of copyright" works available for more than a decade. To extend this to authors, their families, or heirs is dangerous. They have enough trouble hanging on to intellectual property as it is without creating another way to steal from them.

I've had friends who were reluctant to publish stories on the internet that they had written. Some weird type of rules about things like that. Rules I didn't quite understand.

Both, patd.

Reminder tonight is Earth Hour 8:30 your local time.

http://www.earthhour.org/home/

I don't understand how any group can enter into negotiations with another party on behalf (?) of someone who has never authorized them to do so.

There is something decidedly wonky with that.

From Flatus's Google story -

" brain enhancement surgery" ........

A phrase I plan to wear out in the future.

"I don't understand how any group can enter into negotiations with another party on behalf (?) of someone who has never authorized them to do so."

Exactly.

In case you were wondering how twins are made:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_QsLNc6FIiKg/Sc0KAWNjOWI/AAAAAAAAAgc/KKES2hRf1eY/s1600-h/twins.bmp

Jamie,

While catching up with yesterday's NYT, don't know if you saw this review of the HBO TV show you are looking forward to---No. 1 Ladie's Detective Agency- but thought you might be interested in the review.

http://tv.nytimes.com/2009/03/27/arts/television/27ladi.html?ref=television

coreen, thanks for posting the critique of no. 1 ladies' detective agency on hbo. am glad to see that the "slow-growth, artisanal quality" and "languorous pacing" is transposed to tv, remaining true to the books.

GENEVA (AP) — The U.N.'s top human-rights body approved a proposal by Muslims nations Thursday urging passage of laws around the world to protect religion from criticism.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iRHXSIoJJdXQpG3kPrRO2LWMnWTAD975TOK00

Jamie

they didn't they just made an agreement with the ones with enough money to sue them.
It looks to me like it is set up for the publisher who keeps track of all the different rights given on their properties.
The problem with a project like googles is that there are a lot of books out there that by current law the rights belong to someone but the owners either don't know they own the rights or have deemed them of no value and have abandon them. However they still own them. Most of them are of no value and those that are have a publisher who will be sure to fill the report to make sure the rights are enforced.

Jack

Cbob

They are starting up a plant to build all electric delivery trucks and pickups. Here in Kansas City.

http://www.sev-us.com/pressRoom.html#photosVideo

Thought for the day :
" No facts are sacred, none are profane. "

From link posted

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/03/the-afghan-surge.html#comment-214769

"A simple majority of 23 members of the 47-nation Human Rights Council voted in favor of the resolution. Eleven nations, mostly Western, opposed the resolution, and 13 countries abstained."

"The United States did not vote on the resolution because it is not a member of the council. The Bush administration announced it was virtually giving up on the body and would participate in debates only if absolutely necessary because of the Geneva body's anti-Israel statements and its failure to act on abuses in Sudan and elsewhere."

Along with these other 13 countries that abstained,,,the U S are enablers of this resolution,,,,,and just because we support Israel...more proof that we will do Israel's dirty work in that area of the world,,,,All of ours and Israel policies has a tinge of Religion in them,,,,,Bush has said so himself,,,Obama is still Muslim (at least partly,,,one never forgets his early training, of religion) lets see what side he is on on this one,,,if he say anything at all about it,,that is,,,,He probably will vote Absent,,,along with the other 13 countries???

Cbob

Facts are like rocks

If you take rocks and cement them together with care and thought, you can have a structure that will shelter you from the storm.
If not , you just have a pile of rocks.

Jack

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/03/the-afghan-surge.html#comment-214767

Coreen and patd

This place never ceases to amaze me. Coreen kind enough to pass on the review, and a fan (?) of Precious in pat. The books are wonderful and it is nice to know that HBO has let the creators to take the time for people to get comfortable with both the surroundings and the people.

solar
That was last nights thing.

I'm into rocks this morning, and not throwing them.

Jack

Jack,,,,I know but I have to get it off my chest,,,,last one promise,,,I love the Israeli peoples ,,just like I do the all people on earth,,,but what we do to each other ,,pisses my off,,and we just keep the suffering going on with our help,,,wish that we could get out of that part of the word,,,but we won't,,too many commitments have been made.,,,

How is it that the Israeli's are the only ones with morals,,about all of the blood shed ( and also Hamas--same thing,,they both suck),,,The notion of a moral community resolves many paradoxes of human behavior,,,I believe,,,that is why we took the lands from the Indians,,,and Mexicans here in the U S ,,,,,How could the soldiers--fathers( they have children) of Israel go home after a good nights work of killing women and children?? The answer I think,,,is that the people that he spent the work day killing,,,,were outside of his moral community,,,they were antithetical to it,,,his beliefs about Palestinians,,have made him cold against them,,and to the natural human sympathies that he might have had,,,,,,,that and orders that he must follow thru with,,cos the Government wants more land to occupy imo....

http://booksandmusic-patsi.blogspot.com/
Patsi, Thanks for linking your blog site. I enjoyed it and will check it out more in the future. I also went to the Garth link. Another nice site.

"Facts are like rocks
If you take rocks and cement them together with care and thought, you can have a structure that will shelter you from the storm.
If not , you just have a pile of rocks."

Wow, I really love that metaphor Jack!

"brain enhancement surgery"

I like this too, but didn't have time to read the article yet, so don't understand it (but I'm sure I could use some).

..... off and running for a while.

Patsi, I forgot to mention you got me interested in reading 'How Lincoln Learned to Read', as well as the mystery you wrote with your sister. I hope I can find it. I'm going to look on Amazon when I get back.

Also, I just saw that LA Times is available on Kindle. I need to check out all the things that are.

It's a cold and rainy morning here in KC. Looked out at the tree out back and notices the water drops were hanging on for a while. Put some shoes on went out side. Sure enough freezing rain.
In the last 30 min those drops have grown to 1/2 inch ice cycles.
Cbob
heard the news last night and they said there was a blizzard going on in the Texas panhandle. Any of that hit near you

Jack

In a hillbilly mood today

Beans for breakfast.

Jack

Jack -
It froze my pile of rocks, and my apricots. We got the cold and the wind, snowed some , but nothing that stuck.

The trees took a serious hit, they've been blooming for a month.

If there was ever an artist who was made for the web it's this woman :

Ilana Yahav is a world renown sand
animation artist.
Using only her fingers, Ilana draws with
sand on a glass table.

http://www.sandfantasy.com/

NEW THREAD

"trees took a serious hit"
It is supposed to be down around 27 tonight so the fruit trees in this area will probably take a hit. I haven't been out to see any orchards but my flowering cherry plums and pears have all been blooming for a week.
So the fruit trees are probably right at their most vulnerable.
So no local grown peaches:-(

Jack