Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

I claim this abandoned factory , in the name of the workers.

Jamie -
(genealogy stuff)
An email that made it's way to my younger sister, about my mother .

" As I mentioned to you in an earlier email, this book will be dedicated to Peggy's memory. She was the guru on the Torian family and she is responsible for teaching me how to research and document genealogy resources. This is my fourth family history book that I've written.

I stay in touch with about 25 Torian "cousins", most of whom your mom found. We email regularly and they are supplying much of the information for this book. I hear lots of stories about your mom from them and it is obvious they held her in high regard.

I hope to hear from you and your uncles, sister and brother. "

-----------------
Damn I'm proud of my mom.

Correctly, the Church has paid a price, both financially and with a damaged reputation.

Significant changes have been made, much too late of course.

Taking the Pope to court will not happen and should not happen.

The Torian brothers ship wrecked at the mouth of the Chesapeake at a place called Glenn Haven Bay in January of 1738. They came from north of Lake Como, over the Alps to Rotterdam . My mother traced the whole trip. It is one great epic , that must have taken her 15 years to dig up from the first time she found a fellow named Peter Torian in our family tree.
The ship they made the crossing in was called the Oliver. She picked up her cargo of Huguenots from the refugee camps the Dutch were forced set up to hold thousands of people fleeing the Rhine. She really discovered the micro story of the second great wave of Huguenots fleeing Europe in the 18th century.

Obama would not be taking the Pope to court, Oregon Democrat. My question is why should the White House prevent the families of abuse victims take the Vatican to court. Why shouldn't the President stay out of this? How is the public served by the White House blocking a lawsuit to get answers?

There you go Craig , Huguenots fleeing the Church.

Pope's got a long history of screwing people.

"the Church has paid a price, both financially and with a damaged reputation. -- posted by Oregon Democrat"

OD, are you aware of how many cases for which the church has avoided taking responsibility? Despite all of the publicity, child abuse by priests has mostly been unresolved -- largely thanks to the last adminstration's protection of the Vatican against lawsuits seeking the truth

That's why I'm into corn worship this year.

well CBob, the current Pope is a child abuse enabler, and it would be a damn good thing if Obama would expose him

First start with Cardinal Bernard Law who was the Archbishop Emeritus of Boston. He was whisked off to Rome after it became known that he was aware of all the terrible sexual exploitation of childen by priests in his diocesis. Even the moving of offenders to new churches. Get him back to the US to face justice, God can take care of him later.

yep, Bowmanc, and how about Cardinal Roger Mahony in LA presiding over 600+ cases and still in power

but my point is that the current Pope should not escape scrutiny for his role in what appears to be a massive coverup. would be so kick-ass if Obama took him on

I can see this being brought before Obama's people, and a unanimous vote to leave it alone.
It's a controversial subject, covered up for years by the church, apart from the criminal justice system.
Finally, some victims were heard and the press listened, all very recently.
It will take a consolidated movement by victim-alliance groups to pressure Obama to act on this, which would be a direct war on Rome.
This would be a just war, of course, I am all for it.
A tribunal should be called and families of victims and victims should have their say.
Victims many times want anonymity, and every effort should spring forth to see these people compensated without testifying.
It's money the victims deserve and The Vatican has it, lots of it, and those spoils should go to the victims.
Let the first volley be fired!

The Bernard Cardinal Law situation was despicable! Sequestering him deep in the Vatican's shadow was a poor example of Church leadership.

Well let's go all the way back. The bible should begin with, "Once upon a time", and the last page should finish with, "...and NOBODY lived happily ever after!" After all the bible is the the most widely read fairy tale ever!

As for the Pope, he's certainly accustomed in the art of covering up conspiracies, unless you don't count the fact that he was a full fledged, card carrying Nazi. Bet the weasel thought we all forgot about that.

Craig -
No argument from me. I think Obama needs to be buying bleach by the 55 gal drum. And Shamwow's buy the case . Lot's clean , lot's to clean.

I guess we had better have some background to this...Craig did not just make this up...
http://tinyurl.com/h63nu

good political analysis, dex. sure, the safer choice is for Obama to ignore the Pope's coverup of child abuse, just like Bush did. But there are thousands of families sufering from this abuse, and it would be so cool to have a president who didn''t give the Vatican a pass

OSMOdeCRITIC, ha i think we're on the same page regarding the Pope -- how fitting that black smoke from ovens heralded his ascension

This goes back straight to Pope John Paul II, who was an arch-conservative, politically, and he instructed Ratzinger to excommunicate any whistle-blowers. What a crew!

i'm not goofing around about this stuff. i think Obama ought to take this opportunity to blast the political clout of the Catholic Bishop GOPer goons by discrediting their morally corrupt Pope. But hey, i like to make trouble.

i mean, really, why was it so important to the Pope to have Bush shield him from legal liability for covering up child abuse cases? Quite revealing.

My mind's racing thinking of the arguments that would storm the Capitol if Obama so acted.
If Obama would attack, he better do it quickly; remember, Ratzo was only made Pope to appease the Germans...he was meant to be about t one-year reigning pope, but he has outlasted the time most gave him.
But...he seems healthy enough for his advanced age, so maybe there's time.
On the downside, Obama never campaigned on this issue, so does he have any passion for it? I would say not, so he must be made aware of the need for action.

Oh don't EVEN get me started on the Catholic church up in here, Craig, especially after this mindboggling bullshit:

A nine year old Brazilian girl, after having been repeatedly raped by her stepfather since age 6 and becoming pregnant with twins by him AT AGE NINE, had to have an abortion TO SAVE HER LIFE (her womb was too small and underdeveloped [she hadn't gone through puberty yet] for one baby, let alone two).

The Catholic church excommunicated everyone involved with this decision: the girl's mother (again, don't get me started), the doctors, nurses, the judges who ruled in favor of allowing the abortion (lest we forget, abortion is ILLEGAL in Brazil and requires a court decision in cases of rape or incest).

In fact, the only one who WASN'T excommunicated was the girl's stepfather. You know, the one who had been RAPING HER SINCE SHE WAS SIX YEARS OLD. Wanna know why? Brazilian Archbishop Don Jose Cardoso Sobrinho sez, "A graver act than (rape) is abortion, to eliminate an innocent life."

That's right, kids. But hey, what can you expect from an institution with nothing but money and political power on it's mind, an institution that moved pedophiles--child molesters, child RAPISTS--around from one parish to the next, allowing them, CONDONING THEM, to continue doing what they were doing, while covering up for what they did (and then trying to blame their victims), for years and years and years???

I find it odd that a bunch of celibate (aside from all the kiddie diddling) old fucks in expensive dresses get to tell everyone else how to live their lives down to the last detail, and tell us all what is "GOOD" and what is "EVIL", especially after all the shit they've done.

Needless to say, they know the evil they have done, and if there is a God as they say there is, and if that God is anything like they say he is, they're all going to burn in their Hell forever.

Conservative assholes dictating their vision of what's right and what's wrong and shutting down any and all attempts at justice? Color me SHOCKED!!!

And oh yeah, Craig...don't even get me started on this. It won't be pleasant.

*growls*

and what the hell, if Reagan could attack Grenada and Libya, I say Obama can attack Vatican City.

wish someone would take on the catholic church
about its position on birth control and contraceptives
'leave alone the abortion issue''
no one wants to breach the subject of over population
of some third world countries
to continue to have children that you can't feed or
take care of ' now thats a sin

Yes, Dex, i agree this is not an issue anyone talks about, but dammit the Catholic Church is running what amounts to a criminal conspiracy to abuse children and wouldn't be it be cool to see a President call them out instead of joining the coverup?

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/03/take-on-the-pope-pres-obama.html#comment-209300

Julia, you go girl. I beleive the corruption and moral turpitude of the Catholic establishement is a ticking time bomb in our politics -- starting with a Pope who ignored rampant child abuse while charged with stopping it

I have to agree with Dex on this one. I just don't see the Obama administration picking this fight. Of course, Obama could pick somebody like Vincent Bugliosi to be ambassador to the Vatican. I'd buy a ticket to see that one unfold.

It would be one thing if they actually, you know, stood by the policies as suggested by Jesus Christ (that poor shmuck who drove the money changers out of the temple and said "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom Of God", Matthew 19:24). But they're an industry just like Wal-Mart or Comcast or Mitsubishi, only in it for the money. The pope wears Prada shoes, after all, and methinks Jesus ain't no Gucci man...

you and Dex are right, Bowmanc, there's no political value in Obama taking on the Pope's coddling of child abusers -- the right thing to do, sadly, seldom makes good politics

We sail on a rather large ocean of Catholic tears.

Some good news in the inbox -

AT&T is going to replace 17 percent of its fleet - which is one of the largest in America - with vehicles running on natural gas and other renewable fuels. They are going to purchase 8,000 truck chassis built by an U.S. automaker and then they'll work with domestic suppliers to convert those chassis to run on natural gas.

A big portion of AT&T's fleet is going to domestic natural gas and is using vehicles built in America to do it. AT&T will also be working with natural gas suppliers - domestic natural gas suppliers - to build the fueling facilities they will need for these vehicles.

AT&T is also going to replace some 7,100 cars which are running on gasoline with cars using battery and other alternative sources. When this is done, AT&T will have one of the largest alternative fueled fleets in history.

wouldn't it be political suicide for pres. obama to
advocate exposing the vatican for what it really is
a bunch of old farts that enjoy privilege 'power' and money' that run their operation with extortion 'bribes
and hush money
sort of like''well the mafia' with the old pope as
the godfather

Of course it would be political suicide, MQW. It's a completely useless idea (sorry Craig, ilu bb but really now, let's be honest) which is why it will never happen. Nobody wants to alienate a large bloc of voters, and a lot of Catholics are voting Dem these days.

well, mqw, if i might reformulate Julia's telling words - Jesus was never so pissed than when he was in a church. That's why i believe in the dude.

" South Carolina, to small to be a country, to big to be an insane assylum"

Thursday, Mar. 12, 2009
Sanford rejects federal funding
S.C. lawmakers will bypass him, accept disputed money

http://www.thestate.com/local/story/711988.html

1997 — Sanford was one of three members of U.S. House to vote against a breast cancer postage stamp because some of the money would go to post office administration.

I missed this one.

Isn't there an international tribunal or court who would deal with the Pope?

tt

Good night, kids. Gonna finish this Hennessy and watch David Letterman. Have a good one! :~*

Cbob, you stop that talk, South Carolina is my favorite insane asylum -- where else can you eat pecans right off the trees?

nite julia

Dexter? Time for you to steer us to shore before dawn.

Scientists at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) have developed a way to charge lithium ion batteries in seconds, instead of hours, that could open the door to smaller, faster-charging batteries for cell phones and other devices.

http://www.networkworld.com/news/2009/031209-mit-breakthrough-promises-lighter-fast-charging.html

i'm just thinking about all those millions of people
who came to see the pope on his america tour
fawning and swooning trying to be in line to kiss his
hand as if he had descended from heaven
i think it was just a private custom made jet

I agree with Julia completely.

tt

where else can you eat pecans right off the trees?

They got Sturg Craig, that's another thing they going for them.

Short list.

Plot holes and spelling errors, time for the prone position.

OK , Skipper!
Welcome to Night Flight, even though we're going down the Mississippi River . The cabin lights will be dimmed and then shut off in ten minutes.
The snack bar is open until then, so buy that warm milk and that fried baloney now.
Turndown service is currently ready to fix your berths for the long night into day.
Anyone needing a pull on the George Dickel bottle , for medicinal purposes only, catch The Skipper on his way to his berth.
It'll be a bit choppy as the wind is gusting to 35 mph now.
Look at the shore lights! That's Cairo, pronounced KAY-ro, Illinois.

the river:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0375701001/ref=sib_dp_ptu#reader-link

dex
now your getting into my area of expertise
presently southbound on the miss'just south of baton rouge
with 35 loads of grain'' roughly sixty-thousand tons
that came out the mid-west' bread-basket to the world and all

ba-tonn rooj , loozianna...you're cleared through the locks...bon voyage!

There are degrees by which the Obama Admin could proceed. F'rinstance,

1. Extend the statute of limitations to a suitable time for Child Sexual Abuse cases. I'd say 20 years.

2. Open all the files on Papal activity relating to CSA in America.

3. Demand the return of accomplice in CSA crime, john law for prosecution - and any others we believe are hidden in the Vatican.

If you want to get really tough,

4.Open all the CIA files relating to the hiding of nazi and Croatian nationalist, Hutu nationalist, falange, phalange, and fascist war criminals 1943 - 2008 by religious organizations.

5. If law, etc, are not turned over, break dip relations, and if that still doesn't work,

6. Sieze bank accounts and other assets in the US, and if that doesn't work,

7. Seize bank accounts and other assets abroad.

Personally, I wouldn't go past #4. The public would stand for all of it up to 4, but beyond that they would think it's persecution.

GA has pecans, too.

Trouble is, GA hasn't got Sturgeone.

Lake Sinclair and Savannah are nice though, even without Sturgeone.

Plus, GA has a marzipan model of the Capitol in the Capitol, plusplus, a big statue of the founder of the communist party of the USA, tom watson, right on the Capitol grounds. But they don't have Sturgeone.

Good night, and smooth sailing, everyone.

Of course, I meant old bernie law, not john law. Stupid.

Sorry, John.

x ,

If the Us Gov't. did #4, it would likely rile up that secret society of the Templars. If they swung into action, I think Annon-Paranoid might have some real meat to sink his teeth into.

the catholic church being persecuted ?
that would be the ultimate irony

"And oh yeah, Craig...don't even get me started on this. It won't be pleasant.

*growls*

Powerful post, Julia -- I say let's DO get you started. The church is responsible for so much evil it's unbelievable it has a drop of credibility.

Those who have been wronged have a legitimate avenue to legally pursue their grievances.

Taking the Vatican to court strikes me as thinly veiled anti-Catholic bigotry.

I'm not particularly anti-Catholic (just REAL sick of most organized religions), and do understand what a nest of snakes taking the Pope to court would be. Just wish the powers of the church would clean their own house.

C-Bob -- Kudos to your mother the historian. I love reading these family histories....

don't believe anyone is anti-catholic so much
as anti child molesters''and the people who knowingly
covered up for them'' can you be anymore of a criminal
to damage an innocent child's very soul'' time and time again'year after year' they should be tracked down and prosecuted' no immunity anywhere not even the vatican

they should be tracked down and prosecuted' no immunity anywhere not even the vatican

yup. bust 'em now, not later.

Used to often go to Lake Sinclair in Ga..........really nice place.

Good Morning Craig -- For that matter, what about the Americans who were held in Iran for 444 days suing to get compensation for their pain and suffering from the trauma of that event? The Bush Administration shut down their lawsuits too.

Idus Martiae consolantur.
The Ides of March are encouraging.
Cicero Letters to Atticus

me and mr crawford agree on something
its a miracle 'sort of
call the vatican immediately

dick gregory on imus.....will be replayed after nine est i imagine.

"how about rethining this Bush decision"

maybe he could also re-think a few more while he's re-thining this one. sorta like pulling the noxious weeds out of the exec orders patch.

Craig... Subjective and not supported so rejected- "overturn his predecessor's bad decisions regarding torture, stem cell research and such"

and we have not seen what this new... opps stop there...

What will Obama do with the 2nd 100 days?
He Already stuffed all the pills down the throat, Has no more money to spend as the printing presses are max'd, -- Oh he will undo what he has done and do it right - and buy more printing presses...

i love it that even in old SC i very seldom have to talk to anyone anymore ardently defending mr bush............

oops..........lol

imho he should rescind all the faith-based exec decisions per 1st amendment and take on a pontius pilate stance, washing his hands of anything that reeks of establishing/promoting/prohibiting religion by and in the name of the gov't.
but not now... unless it can be done without becoming a distraction.
this is march madness time after all and we need to keep our eyes on the ball.

I will spare everyone elaboration on my own personal belief that all organized religions act as cover for sexual excesses.

On a safer secular note; however, I’m ‘thining’ that some pruning is in order.

Diogenes [a commenter, not the ancient greek]
3rd May 2004, 07:17 AM
I came across something that said:

If the Earth was reduced in scale to the size of a basketball, about 9.5 inches in diameter, it would be smoother than the basketball. ( imagine that the seams and bumps on a basketball are canyons and mountains )

Before I reveal the numbers I came up with, I would be curious about what you think?

What follows in comment form is an entertaining discussion of that topic:

http://forums.randi.org/archive/index.php/t-22536.html

here's an old wapo article on rescind some of the bush edicts... anyone keeping score on how many of the 200 are going down?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/08/AR2008110801856.html?hpid=topnews

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/03/take-on-the-pope-pres-obama.html#comment-209350

Sturg?
Why do you think that was a defense of FP Bush?
Or a statement that NP Obama is no better, just a different road -
We do know the outcomes of the choices above - and they are good and no harm.

Off to work - not taking Stimulus dollars but looking for stimulus drift over -

sorry, ping.....just making a lame joke........

I know you wouldn't defend bush or his policies........

George Carlin once said, "I think it would be funny for the Pope to appear on the Vatican balcony and give the latest football scores."

I reached 100 friends on Facebook, although I have a friend from high schoo, who is a ordained Catholic priest and has over 1,500 friends. My sister and all of my brother-in-law's family are Catholic. I doubt they would enjoy this thread. LOL!

President Obama won't do anything of the kind, for one very real reason, Hispanic voters. Deeply religious and predominately Catholic.

Now to your assertions. Are you saying the Pope didn't do much, or he didn't do anything? If he didn't do anything, then you have a very valid point, but if he didn't do much means he did something, just not as much as you or I would have liked. You could say the same things of the heads of most police departments here in the US, we would like them to stop all sexual exploration of children, but they can't so they do the best that they can do with what they have.

Your premise seems to suggest only Catholic priests here in the US molest children, and in other counties of the world this deplorable act doesn't occur? Europe, a more secular part of the world where religion has taken a nose dive, known for centuries of it's barbarous treatment of preying on the weak, has their heads of state also granted the Pope immunity as you insinuate Bush has. But it wasn't Bush, as you wrote, "George W. Bush's Justice Department successfully argued in court that the pontiff "enjoys immunity as a head of state." That decision, as you pointed out was handed down by a court of law, not Bush. The fact is you don't like the court's decision. Well take your ticket and joint me at the end of the line, as there are countless court decisions I don't like involving individuals who prey on our children and are then let free out only to molest/murder our children again.

Here is a solution: Maybe the European countries with their more progressive style of government, many here on this group only wish our government would model itself after, will take up this legal crusade. Then there is always the World's Court in the Hague, an ideal place for such case to be heard. It is inconceivable and nonsensical to believe these sexual crimes against children, committed by employees (priests), of an organization (Catholic Church), who's CEO (The Pope) and happens to be a head of state, do not expand far and wide beyond the confines of the United States.

This is the type of spectacle side shows the Bill Maher's of the world could only dream about. The icon of one of the world's greatest religions placed in the village stocks based on pure speculation of an alleged cover-up of child sexual exploration, so they can hurl their nightly one liners at his head.

dudes looking to corner jeebus into making a compromising statement: Where IS this "kingdom of heaven"?

jeebus: Dont look here nor there for the kingdom of heaven is within you.

--Luke 17, 20-21

this is where old christman let the cat out the bag pointing out the non-necessity of "churches" and their overbearing hypo- and hyper-critical role in society.

Julia and Patsi -- Agree with you too that case of the girl in Brazil is so evil that I can barely wrap my brain around it. In a country like that excommunication could mean a loss of income for the medical people who came to her assistance.

Anyone who abuses a child should be held accountable and anyone who helps the perps escape justice should also be accountable.

Oregon Dem -- I also can see your point. The church has done a lot of good in the world. There is a part of the church that I like to focus on -- the church of Mitch Snyder, the Berrigan Brothers, Dorothy Day, Mother Teresa, Father Damian, the Catholic Charities that are doing amazing work helping to get refugees resettled and provide free legal help for immigrants. The Church that produced Barbara Mikulski, Joe Biden, Ted Kennedy, Tip O'Neil, Nancy Pelosi, Geraldine Ferraro, Rosa DeLauro, John Kerry and dozens more great liberal leaders. The church of the Catholic Worker Movement, the Maryknolls, the Missionaries of Charity, Dominican Sisters, etc.

There are definitely many cases where the church is wrong, wrong, wrong -- the aiding and abetting of child molesters, forced pregnancy, the cruelly deviant Magdalene Sisters, the anti-semitic policies of the WWII Church that refused to help Jewish refugees, the Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades, etc.

Perspective.

many hispanic voters might also be ready to embrace the all-american idea of a little relief from the church.

The guy who threw the shoes at Bush got sentenced to 3 years in prison!

and all the shoes he can eat?

some bible makers got hip to dangerous idea contained in the Luke verses i posted above and changed the wording......"among" you, not "within" you.........other bibles let it stand as being an integral point in the Nazz's philosophy......

sole food, sturge?

one mo'........lol

"And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."
(Luke 17:20-21 KJV)

In that statement, Jesus was declaring a spiritual truth that Israel did not see. But on another occasion, when asked about His Kingdom by Pontius Pilate, He gave a somewhat different answer:

"Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence."

from:
http://www.kjvbible.org/thekingdoms.html

South Carolina == shrimp and grits, Low Country boil, Gullah, Geechee, Charleston market, sweetgrass baskets, Hilton Head, Myrtle Beach, perlo, Beaufort, Sturge.

When the Amish get an idea.......does a candle appear over their heads?

--rob bartlett as larry king

diva....I've HEARD of hilton's head and myrtle's beach......are they near here or something?

patd.....hey.....get off your perch and quit floundering around......holy mackeral..........

My take is that organized religion is just another power base for someone to organize people for the purpose of exercising political influence. They have little to do with the original message of the Christ and I think he'd denounce them today.

While Bush might protect the Pope because of religious beliefs, no doubt the Vatican was exercising that political influence.

In the short run they may have protected the Pope, in the long run people are dropping out of traditional religion en masse.

http://tinyurl.com/cawd2d

Ingredients:
1 tablespoon butter
1 teaspoon all-purpose flour
1 quart milk
1/8 teaspoon ground mace
1/8 teaspoon ground black pepper
1/2 teaspoon Worcestershire sauce
1 teaspoon salt
2 cups white crab meat (try to find fresh crabs with roe, but canned will do)
6 tablespoons dry sherry
1/2 cup whipping cream, whipped
1 tablespoon chopped fresh parsley

Directions:
Fill the bottom of a double boiler halfway with water. Bring to a low boil. Melt butter in top of double boiler, add flour and stir until smooth.

Gradually add milk, stirring constantly until smooth. Add mace, black pepper, Worcestershire sauce, salt, and crab meat, add roe . Cook over simmering water for 20 minutes.To serve, place 1 tablespoon of warmed sherry in each of 4 or 6 soup bowls (depends on how much soup you want). Ladle soup into bowls, top with a dollop of whipped cream, and sprinkle with fresh snip

snip? what kinda recipe is that......they left something off......must be pepper...........damn.....gotta go looking for a different one......

and it's supposed to say: Traditional Charleston She-Crab Soup

TV doctor Nancy Snyderman is ethically challenged and proved today she is also factually challenged. Not too mention who ever did her plastic work is not her friend.

I hope Obama says no church or church officials is above the law. I would think observant Catholics would want to rid their church of custom and practice that has ended up costing them reputation and a lot of money. If we are going to hand out public money to religious institutions for public programs ..they are subject to the laws of the land.

I do agree, Craig, anyone granted immunity by GWB should be reversed by Obama. While he is at it, he can take on octo-Mom and the polygamous Prophets of the LDS compounds.

ahhh.....elvis parsley.......

thank you, and good night.

Mornin'.

Craig, as a lawyer you know that the DoJ is just a party to an action. In the case of the Pope, his immunity will follow the track of GWB's. Congress certainly doesn't seem to be in a mood to countenance specious claims of immunity, and the Bush DoJ position strikes me as inconsistent with the Jones v. Clinton case - a civil suit allowed to proceed against a sitting head of stae for acts committed before he became a sitting head of state. Of course throw in the international angle - is the head of the Vatican subject to prosecutionin a civil matter in the US unless he is served with process in the US? Interesting question - maybe some international law expert out there can answer that question.

sturg, the inconsistencies in the bible are legion. After all, jesus kicked the money changers out of the temple - declaring that is was his father's house. We need some great biblical scholar to reconcile the apparent inconsistencies - maybe Jim Jones (nope, dead), Jerry Falwell (nope ...) Jim Baker, Jimmy Swaggart, Ernest Angely, Rick Warren (well, who of these are we to believe?)

Ernest Angely?

So, sturg, does the meat need to be from female crabs? I never can remember how to figure out which ones are which.

Yep.

http://www.ernestangley.org/

He is - or at least used to be - one of the best acts on Sunday morning TV. He used to pluck them illness demons out of people and he had a crew ready to catch the newly unafflicted as they fell backward to the ground from his extractions.

I guess this would be a great time for the Flight of the Conchords.....too many dicks on the dance floor...we need to create some lady space...

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/81d2f084fa/fotc-too-many-dicks-on-the-dance-floor

"They have little to do with the original message of the Christ and I think he'd denounce them today."

I think he would, too, don1....

And btw, Sturg, that's Angley - pronounced like angel(y) - no, really, that's what he said just in case you missed how he pronounced it. He commanded the demons to get out - pronounced like ai-yute. I used to catch a few minutes of it when I had a really bad hangover - I figured it might help get that demon ai-yute.

"President Obama won't do anything of the kind, for one very real reason, Hispanic voters. Deeply religious and predominately Catholic."

And I agree with this as well, TiR....

If Jesus is the son of God, and we are the children of God, aren't we all then the sons and daughters of God?

Ruh-roh. Where's a fat cat to hide his money anymore?

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/13/business/worldbusiness/13liechtenstein.html?_r=1&hp

For those who missed it, here's the Tweety/Ari mid fight...

http://tinyurl.com/aj7yzr

Federal Money

I think I understand where Gov Sanford is coming from. I think he does not want to start _new_ federally sponsored programs without a continuing funding source having been provided.

Here's an example of what I mean. When I was in Florida, our small city received an offer from the Clinton Administration. The gist of it was, they would sponsor, for two years, a program where our paramedics would do 'sick calls' at the government subsidized housing facilities in our city.

It was clear, upon reading the requirements of the program, that we would have to increase manning at the fire department. It was also clear that the program would be very popular within the targeted communities--once established it would be next to impossible to discontinue it.

At the end of the two year period, funding would shift from the government to the homeowner tax base of the city. The vast majority of those homeowners were on fixed incomes with social security being a major component of that income.

A tax increase on these people, which could force a significant belt-tightening, would cause significant, and in my opinion, warranted backlash.

On a scale larger by orders of magnitude, the governor is also saying no to mandates that will be unfunded in future budget cycles.

pogo......look on the bottom of the crab.....if the center section is long and skinny it's a male.....wide is the female....and it SHOULD be female, for the roe, but who's checkin', eh?

ahhh.......wonders of the tubes of knowlege:

http://lpsteamers.com/sex.html

2 cups white crab meat (try to find fresh crabs with roe, but canned will do)

"does the meat need to be from female crabs?"

I don't think the male crabs have roe, and there are always those restriction on when and how many females crabs you can catch and keep. I think too that may depend on the season. Best She-Crab soup I ever had was in Charlestron, SC, god was that good. Crabs are such an odd lot, for eating what they eat, they sure do taste good..

Well good fellows, I have to hit the road to go to a meting at a lovely Holiday Inn Express located in a quiet neighborhood in a little town just off I-79. - it is just beside the interstate and a cemetary. Reminds me of a travelocity commercial.

Later - maybe.

President Obama has to figure out how to get 4 million people working again. He also has to figure out how to get proper food back on the table for a bout a Million homeless and dispaced.

I think thats enough for 1 year alone. Why don't you revisit this next year and see if there is room on the plate.

Besides, In all my days as a Christian, I can even remember the Pope being a "Head Of State". There are rules of engagement for even the most evil on this planet.

I'm sure it would not be in the US's best interest to go after the Pope when we can't even figure out if the last President deserves to take a visit to the Haugg.

He Cheers people, time to go work out for the ticker!

Patsi,

I think that was the first time I ever saw someoen out talk Matthews. It really doesn't matter what they were talking about, it is great fun to see and hear anyone beat Matthews at his own game.

sturge, still crabbing i see.

"the last administration's protection of the Vatican against lawsuits seeking the truth"

Craig, When I first read you're blog, I wasn't sure what to think. But then as you clarified in a couple of your comment posts, I understood. This one sentence of your's that I'm quoting, in particular. There is something wrong with the government telling us we can't 'seek the truth'.

https://twitter.com/TheEllenShow
Jamie, I was catching up on the old thread, and ran across your post on Ellen's twitter again, and out of curiosity, went over to see how many followers she ended up with. It's now over 52,200. She says she's 'tweeting' on twitter. Twitter tweet. Her words. She is so funny. Thanks for linking that.

Julia, When you said last night, that "it's all about the journey, and not the goal.", I didn't reply. But I agree with that, and not just in meditation. It's nice having you here.

" It really doesn't matter what they were talking about, it is great fun to see and hear anyone beat Matthews at his own game. "

I know...I laughed my butt off at both clowns.

good morning gang....
hey.... it's great to see Bowmanc posting again.....

this is a tough subject for me..... both Rick and I being of French Canadian descent means every family member either is or was raised a Catholic.....

I will spare you all a diatribe of what I think of the Catholic Church.... just suffice it to say..... I hate it.... Rick feels the same way.... and yes..... we both know people who have been sexually abused by priests.... we think any and all offenders should be brought to justice and put in jail.....

but I too can see Oregon Democrat's point...... I've heard too many rants on the radio by southern baptists about the evil pope and the evil papists....

Craig.... since you are a southerner.... and I would guess raised as a baptist.... the singling out of Catholics as sexual abusers doesn't sit well with me.... it does smack of bigotry.... although I'm sure you don't mean it that way.....

I think sexual abuse crosses all religious, ethnic, and anything else you can name lines..... it's not about Catholics.... it's about an abhorrent human behavior....

with that said..... I think all religions are based on political power..... and I think all the stories about Jesus are made up..... however... I am not an atheist.... and I respect all people's rights to choose or not choose a religion....

and finally.... if Obama is smart.... and I think he is.... he will not say a single word on this subject....

"enjoys immunity as a head of state."

maybe they were anticipating the time when they would need this argument in their own case.

"it does smack of bigotry.... although I'm sure you don't mean it that way....."

renee, agree... a faint aroma of it wafted by my nose too

wafted?

better go back to bed.

and Julia....
your comment last night about what you thought of certain temperatures had me laughing my ass off!..... as a northerner.... I start to thrive when the temp gets down to 32..... anything over 80 makes me wilt....

but then I guess that's why you live in California and I in NH..... :0)

Agree with Renee that sex abuse crosses all lines of religion, race, ethnicity etc...in fact, just the other day NPR reported a case going on now involving some young men coming forward about rabbis, and how the synagogue is providing cover.

What I'd really like to see is all churches banned from participating in politics....for example, the bishops who denied communion to pro-choice Catholic candidates...

"Take On the Pope Pres. Obama" was in no way an example of bigotry. I cerainly didn't perceive it that way..but there are many who would take the idea
and relish the chance to attack Catholics.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/03/take-on-the-pope-pres-obama.html#comment-209274

CBob,

You should be proud of you mom. That is a lot of work and you have some truly interesting folks hanging from your tree. :-)

Sturge. Florence. Darlington. Ugh.

French Canadian? Bonjour, eh?

sturg, all - I get that only the females have roe - don't you have to look inside to figure that out? Thus, my question.

pat - that head of state argument has 2 dimensions - the first is whether one can be sued (or prosecuted) WHILE they are a sitting head of state. The second issue is whether a FORMER head of state can be sued or prosecuted for acts that were performed as head of state. There are lots of answers depending on the question asked.

Oh, that's where Roe v. Wade came from.
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/03/take-on-the-pope-pres-obama.html#comment-209417

Paved With Magnificent Intentions
"Charles Dickens, who visited in 1842, described Washington as a "city of magnificent intentions" because of the incongruity between the city's grand aspirations and muddy, swampy actuality. Today Washington's discrepancy is not architectural but political. It is between the extraordinary powers and competences the administration claims it has and the administration's inability to be clear or plausible about what it is doing.

...Mature political leaders know that to govern is to choose -- to choose what to do and thereby to choose what cannot be done. The administration insists that it really does have a single priority: Everything depends on fixing the economy. But it also says that everything depends on everything: Economic revival requires enactment of the entire liberal wish list of recent decades"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/11/AR2009031103216.html

OD.... sorry if I took the wrong meaning of your words.... I do find it ironic that anyone would bash another's church while attending their own... this happens way too often, IMO... I hate religions.... but think bashing them is an exercise that is useless.... I did, however..... enjoy the movie Religulous...

Corey.... I don't speak a word of French..... it stems from an ancient argument between my father and his father..... my grandfather was adamant that we be taught French.... my father raved that his kids were born Americans and had no need to learn the language..... my father even went into the school when I, the eldest, got to the age of 12 and told them not to give me French classes just because of my name.... the school must have listened.... all three of us were given Spanish classes....

flatus - I'm sure you can wade to get the roe. :-)

Golly, Renee, you became a 'rebel without a cause' :)

Craig,

I keep reminding myself that you live inside the beltway...I'm sure that this issue is great intellectual banter amongst the elites but here in Realityville....

I think that most people would prefer that our new President focus on doing one or two things well as opposed to doing many in a mediocre fashion.

To me, this issue while certainly valid, is a diversion of effort that we can ill afford right now.

Flatus.... I know it appears I am in contradiction with myself.....
I have my personal opinion of religion..... I respect all others rights to have their personal opinions......

I think that bashing another's religion while practicing the religion of your choice is hypercritical.....

Bill Maher doesn't practice a religion..... and isn't afraid to say what he thinks of all of them..... he's consistent in opinion and behavior.....

ok.... I've been opinionated enough for one day on this subject...... have at it.... :0)

"Sunlight is the best Disinfectant"

Ree. Yes it is! I love that.
(it also kills mold) :)

I guess Obama should lay off all the federal employees not involved in the financial crisis since we can only do one thing at a time.

Whew!! I go to bed and you all go crazy.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/03/take-on-the-pope-pres-obama.html#comment-209353

Mad, I think I'm with you on this one. As much as I agree with virtually all of the good ideals present in all relgions (the ol do unto others that we all fall short of), my experience with religious representatives divides along the saints and sinners line with a great deal more of them being on the sinner side.

Whatever makes people enter into a strictly religious life seems often to stem from some feeling of emptiness in their lives. It can produce a Father Damian willing to give his life for his parish and it can produce the predatory priests. You can get a Mother Theresa or the nuns of the Irish Laundries. How many Protestant ministers have been caught playing hanky panky with everything available in multiple ways?

Plus i'm with CBob on the whole go forth and multiply even if it despoils the earth, and leads to mass starvation, injuries and deaths. The ruling on the abortion of the raped child totally sickened me.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/03/take-on-the-pope-pres-obama.html#comment-209411

Be careful what you wish for, Patsi. There are many liberal churches that lead the way for many causes that you and I adore. The church is the center of the black community that lead the way for civil rights -- it was Rev. Martin Luther King, Rev,. Ralph Abernathy, Rev. Benjamin Hooks, Rev. Benjamin Chavis Muhammad, Rev. Fred Shuttlesworth, Rev. C.K. Steele, Rev. Andrew Young. Bishop Desmond Tutu's efforts helped to free South Africa from aparteid. The Dali Lama is working for peace and justice for Tibet.

The UUs and the UCC are leading the way now for GLBT civil rights, among other causes. The United Methodists for Social Action are working to support Universal Health Care, Living Wage Campaign and Middle East Peace. Sojourners is working to stop that cruel Sheriff Joe Arpaio in Arizona.

I am definitely not a religious person -- but I would not want to see all these religious leaders go away and stay out of politics.

Ree, while it's undoubtedly true that abuse occurs in many religions that operate effectively as dictatorships (either benign or not) over their followers, there is a much different degree of the same in the US with the Catholic church - the sheer numbers are overwhelming greater with the catholic church simply because it is a major religion in the US. Islam is not, That doesn't excuse the abuse, no matter what religion it occurs in, it just makes it less interesting to the press and makes it appear to be a much smaller problem. Exceptions certainly exist for "odd" religions, but the Catholic church's priest abuse was widespread, covered up institutionally to the highest levels of management in the church and touched influential families. As abhorent as abuse is, I do not doubt that law enforcement is not going to make abuse of children at the hands of the clergy its higest priority. Whether is should or not is terrific topic for discussion.

Pogo,
Been awhile but maybe you could shed some light on something for me/us. Craig's comments mentioned that Bush's DOJ granted immunity.

From a practical standpoint how much of the DOJ actually changes from one administration to the next. It was my thought that a realtively few high level positions change between administrations.

Uh oh. All you corny people please take note!

http://tinyurl.com/dbsvjc

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/03/take-on-the-pope-pres-obama.html#comment-209401

TIR

I loved the look on Matthews face when Ari hit him with "Look Who's Talking". I may think Ari is a complete Ass, but that look from Tweety was priceless on someone with a rather inflated estimation of his own infallibility (speaking of popes and ex Cathedra)

jax, your understanding is consistent with mine, and Obama has kept a relatively high number of DoJ appointees from the Bush admin so the turnover isn't all that high this time around. And immunity is not granted by the Doj actually, the DoJ would simply have argued for immunity if a case was brought, and would have a policy not to prosecute consistent with that position.

Pogo,

Must be difficult for DOJ to argue a case one way for one administration and argue the exact opposite for the next. Especially when so much of our legal system is based on continuity and precedent.

Madoff remanded.

DOJ is now going down to AZ to investigate the racial profiling of Sheriff Joe. Now there's justice for you! http://tinyurl.com/ajockt

NEW THREAD

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/03/the-partisan-divide-widens.html

jax, it's not all that hard. Government changes position on legal issues with some regularity as different parties control the departments. DoJ is not any different than say, EPA, which took the position under Bushco that CO2 was not a pollutant subject to regulation under the Clean Air Act (the court disagreed, btw). I expect that under the Obama admin, EPA will acknowledge - indeed insist - that CO2 is a pollutant and subject to CAA regulations. Any lawyer worth his or her salt can make the argument on either side of those issues without having their head explode.

I can only speak to what the Anglican church (as an entity) has done re abuse. They've made it a criminal matter, handed over to the police. There are 3 distinct behaviours that referred to police right away: Financial abuse (of a parish or indeed of a parishioner), Sexual Abuse, and Vexatious Behaviour (covers things like divulging confidences, hate speech, etc.).

I don't know that much about the DOJ, so went looking for possible changes when Jax mentioned that Craig had said 'Bushes' DOJ. It looks like any changes Obama did make were good ones.

The impact of Obama's latest excellent DOJ appointments
Two of the most vehement critics of Bush's executive power abuses are named to high-level positions, joining "outrage"-advocate and new OLC chief Dawn Johnsen.

"There are many limitations that ought to constrain what a President does: political limits, checks from other branches, the principles (or lack thereof) of the Executive himself, and legal restrictions. Virtually all of those checks were non-existent over the last eight years. It is the DOJ generally, and the OLC specifically, that has a real ability to impose legal constraints on what a President can do, to decree that what a President wants to do is contrary to a valid statute or the Constitution. Much of the Bush illegality was accomplished by having DOJ lawyers do the opposite: by decreeing that anything the President wished to do was legal. It is unlikely in the extreme that this group of new appointees would do that."
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/01/20/olc/print.html

NEW THREAD