Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

"troops in the field" are given "authority" to "capture or kill certain individuals" who are perceived as a threat. "That's certainly true."

Hmmm. Sounds like WAR you ninny.

mqw - the constitution doesn't say it can't, either.

My font is okay now - or is it a little large?????????????????

The trials and tribulations of modern life.

What's the verdict re No 1 Ladies Detective Agency? My sister saw a little video and was very disappointed that it looked as if it had been tarted up with guns etc. She lost interest - she liked the books precisely because there were no guns.

Saving Grace is coming on now. I've only been watching it for a couple of months and so don't lnow too much about Earl. It seems to me his spiel is pretty Old Testament and creationist, huh?

Warren - you were pretty funny in your posts yesterday.
Solar - you were downright silly.

Okay - I wasn't first when I posted that. There were two posts from Jamie here and now they're gone!!!!!!!!!!! Why do things vanish when I show up???????????????? I'm considering being paranoid.

Oh, yeah.

WOO WOO.

Hersh has said many things not borne out with evidence. However, I rather doubt any adminsitration in the last four decades didn't have a list of targets so horrendous they were worthy of termination. I believe JFK tried to kill Casto. Israel just took out a leading terrorist just before Zbigs visit to Syria. We nail AQ in Taliban about every other week lately. And yes, Obama would execute OBL if special ops had him in their cross hairs. Who was Cheny planning to get? Hogo? Ahmadinejad? Bashir? Its a thought, yes?

I find it strange the Press never demanded answers about the assassination of a Russian in England with radioactive material traced back to Moscow. The Ukrainian President was a victim of an assassination attempt. Hell, Clinton has to talk to the man the World Court is investigating for assassinating Hariri?

Still, I'm not surprised by the focus in Cheney by Hersh or that he may have authorized taking out bad guys. If I were Obama, Mullah Omar would be right up there with OBL.

What else is news?

OMG, my conspiracy-theory-obsessed, tin-hat-wearing pals are gonna LOVE this...

If this turns out to be entirely (or even partially) true, who the hell did they manage to kill??? Some beancounting administrator that nobody's ever heard of? That's what it sounds like. Of course, Kim Jong Il hasn't been seen recently...hmmmm...*thoughtfully strokes chin*...but he was so cartoonish he CAN'T be the one and only one they managed to whack, can he? CAN HE??? Not when Ahmadinejad and his ilk are still threatening the 'Murkun way of life with every passing second!!!

Then again, pretty much everything the Bush administration touched was made out of complete and utter FAIL, so all things considered, this really ain't all that surprising. The gang that couldn't shoot straight, part deux...

Number 12 on Obama's Best Hits List......

"Omar Farooq, who said he is the spokesman for little-known Fedayeen al-Islam, also said the group carried out a similar ambush-style attack against the Sri Lankan cricket team earlier this month in Lahore _ the same eastern city where a group of gunmen stormed a police academy Monday and killed at least six trainee officers before being overpowered by Pakistani commandos.

The group previously said it was behind the deadly September bombing of the Marriott hotel in Islamabad that killed 54 people." AP

Number 4 on Bibi's Best Hits List....

"Khaled Mashaal is regarded as Tehran's man in Hamas. The politburo chief lives in exile in Damascus but in recent months he has been frequently on the move, with Iran one of his most important destinations. Many Fatah officials, such as Ibrahim Abu al-Nasha from Gaza City who has known Mashaal for over 30 years, are convinced that the Hamas leader allowed the talks to fail under pressure from Tehran."

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,616251,00.html Spiegels concerns are strange considering the profit German CEO make selling the technology Quds needs to operate.

What? Now there is another person first here?

There is something strange going on. I'm outta here.

Number 3 on Olmert's Best Hit List

"Mr. Mugniyah, 45, was suspected of planning the 1983 bombings of the American Embassy and a Marine barracks in Beirut; the hijacking of a T.W.A. jetliner in 1985; and a series of high-profile kidnappings in the 1980s, among other crimes. Israel accused him of helping to plan the 1992 bombing of its embassy in Buenos Aires, in which 29 people were killed, and the 1994 bombing of a Jewish center in the city, in which 85 people died."

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/14/world/middleeast/14syria.html note the correction a month later under pressure from the "Liberal Lobby".

Number 2 on Obama's Best Hits List

"Mullah Omar’s Taliban regime in Afghanistan sheltered Usama Bin Ladin and his al-Qa‘ida network in the years before the 11 September attacks. Although Operation Enduring Freedom removed the Taliban regime from power, Mullah Omar remains at large and represents a continuing threat to America and its allies."

http://www.nctc.gov/site/profiles/mullah_omar.html
So far, I think Cheney would agree with "all of the above".

Trail Mix Bloggers:

The small-font issue in your comment box should be fixed.

Sorry for the inconvenience, but a few comments were lost tonight after this page had to be rebuilt and republished to fix some code issues. All is well now.

Thank you for commenting on CQ Politics.

-- Tech Services

Aha...A-OK here with the posting font.
But no, --no surprises here about Cheney authorizing clandestine assassination plots.
I wonder in The New School's Bob Kerrey was in charge of instructing the throat-slit technique---Kerrey as a Navy Seal was an assassin-in-the-night, executing village heads who were not friendly to the US military invasion . His MO was to sneak into their homes in the night and cut their throats.

Thirteenth!!

obama has some large shoes to fill from the past administration:

http://www.getprice.com.au/images/uploadimg/650/350__1_clown-shoes-red-yellow1.det.jpg

Size 18, extra floppy.

Assassination is one of the tools that can be used to gain tactical advantage during active hostilities, or it can be an 'advanced' tool to supplement stagnant or failing diplomacy.

In both cases, what goes around comes around.

cheney exposed again

http://www.internetweekly.org/cartoons_2004/cartoon_cheney_secret.html

How about Ranger Pat Tillman who according to reports I read took three to the head in a tightly grouped pattern.

Also according to interviews I read with his family the story the Pentagon gave to them as to how he died constantly changed.

Then there was the fact that they burned his uniform and all his personal belongings, including his diary.

What was on his uniform that would make the Military burn it? Perhaps powder burns showing he was shot close up and not from a distance.

What was in his diary that would make the Military burn it?
Perhaps names, dates, places, times of assassinations, the person or persons who carried them out, the people who knew going all the way up the chain of command all the way to Cheney's office.

I would put nothing past Cheney, after all he shot his friend in the face and chest while hunting and I always wondered if it really was an accident or not.

Google Ranger Pat Tillman and read all the interviews from his family and see what they think happened to him.

And finally its about time that the international community went after War Criminals. Like the prosecutor said to Feith, read the complaint then hire a very good lawyer.

Hope Bush\Cheney are next.

Have a good day.

the verified facts in the death of mr tillman are indeed troubling.......so far, no answers..........

sturge, your shoes left off the corporate logos. how bout this one?

http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/images/blbushbozo.htm

Lord Bloggington is just going to make one post not related to Cheney having people killed, which ain't a big surprise...

Lord Bloggington's doorbell rang at 6:30 this morning, and being in bed and undressed, he quickly got up and threw on some jeans and a T-shirt he found on the floor. The T-shirt happens to have the iconic Obama image in black & white popularized by Shepard Fairey, labeled under the "Obey" brand. Lord Bloggington thinks it's ridiculous that Mr. Fairey claims "artistic freedom" in using a reference photograph while using a black and white image that might as well be the original AP photograph to make boatloads of money while the person who took the actual photograph ain't getting a dime.

Lord Bloggington just wanted to get that, and this stupid T-shirt, off his chest. Thank you, and good day.

I'm with Anon Paranoid on the Pat Tillman issue. That sounded like a hit to me.

I love you Sturge!

why, thank you ms o'sea....(wanna see my blue cornfield?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBMbMgTP8ek

FAMILY DEMANDS THE TRUTH
New inquiry may expose events that led to Pat Tillman’s death

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/09/25/MNGD7ETMNM1.DTL

From the article:

"Yet other Tillman family members are less reluctant to show Tillman’s unique character, which was more complex than the public image of a gung-ho patriotic warrior. He started keeping a journal at 16 and continued the practice on the battlefield, writing in it regularly. (His journal was lost immediately after his death.) Mary Tillman said a friend of Pat’s even arranged a private meeting with Chomsky, the antiwar author, to take place after his return from Afghanistan — a meeting prevented by his death. She said that although he supported the Afghan war, believing it justified by the Sept. 11 attacks, “Pat was very critical of the whole Iraq war.” "

People ring doorbells at 6:30 in the morning? da noive a'some people...........

has anyone tracked those who were with tillman at the time of his death to see who they were and where did they come from? or do they figure a "hidden" shooter who was not part of their group........

sturgeone...

They know who was shooting, the question is who was the one who put three in his head?

It could have been someone in the unit or another person unknown to them that was following them.

At least that's what I see as a possible explanation. The article tells who some of the soldiers were that were suspected of being the ones who killed him, but like I said above anything is possible in this case.

Tillman was very much against the war in Iraq and had stated it many times so who really knows what was in his journal. It would make very interesting reading though I think.

That's it for me today. Things aren't looking good for my job so I don't want to give them an extra excuse to let me go.

Have a good day.

g20 trivia

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/31/g20

the fact that the uniform and diary were burned (much like the fact that Ruby had to go in and personally silence the patsy after Tippet failed) are especially question-raising and damning...........

and what did they do.....bring him back in his skivvies? that's nuts.

mornin' -

My memory's a little hazy on this (and everything else, so that should come as no surprise) but the controversy around Tillman's death was as I recall (dimly) that he was initially hailed as a fallen hero, shot in combat by enemy troops and held up as the best we had to offer - then it leaked out that, well, no, he was killed by friendly fire in the confusion of combat.The issue was the pentagon's cover up of the friendly fire cause of death.

Sturg, their car ain't broke down and they don't need to use the phone.

Damnit! Now you have Lord Bloggington's interest piqued, as he can't imagine what type of soldier would shoot a fellow soldier of the same unit in the face.

"After the shooting, the Rangers destroyed evidence that would be considered critical in any criminal case, the records show. They burned Corporal Tillman's uniform and his body armor.

Months later, the Rangers involved said they did not intend to destroy evidence. 'It was a hygiene issue,' one soldier wrote. 'They were starting to stink.'

Another soldier involved offered a slightly different take, saying 'the uniform and equipment had blood on them and it would stir emotion' that needed to be suppressed until the Rangers finished their work overseas.

'How could they do that?' Mr. Tillman said. 'That makes no sense.'

The family still wants to know, he said, what became of Corporal Tillman's diary. It was never returned to the family, he said."

http://brilliantatbreakfast.blogspot.com/2006/03/hey-george-you-messed-with-wrong.html

The author of "brilliantafterbreakfast" referenced this NYTimes article:

2 Years After Soldier's Death, Family's Battle Is With Army
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/21/politics/21tillman.html?_r=1&ei=5094&en=12673147cb92dece&hp=&ex=1143003600&adxnnl=1&partner=homepage&adxnnlx=1142942641-c3VhGhYp+kNjCIpDWw1Slg

Lord Bloggington hopes SOMEBODY will hold Dick Cheney's feet to the fire, so to speak, before he dies of natural causes anyway, assumin his robot-heart can't beat indefinitely. This is a disgrace, and Lord Bloggington ain't easily offended.

Good day for realz.

... of course those 3 tightly spaced headshots do cast a slightly different light on the case than the typical friendly fire death, don't they?

Craig, I don't think anyone would interpret John Hannah's comments as anything like an admission that the program existed - I rather see it as a denial, but so what? Does ANYONE really put a secret assassination squad that reports directly to the VP ONLY beyond Shooter?

pogo.........reminds me of something which happened while i was in Gnashville........

Darrell Bailey appeals the denial of his petition for a writ of habeas corpus. Bailey and codefendant Darryl Langley were convicted by a Tennessee jury of attempting to murder Gary Paxton, a relatively well-known, country-music composer and producer. Bailey argues that his conviction was based, in part, on a statement obtained in violation of his Miranda rights.

Bailey and Langley were allegedly hired by country-singer Vern Gosden to "beat up" Paxton. Gosden was apparently unhappy because of his business dealings with Paxton. Bailey and Langley went to Paxton's house in the early evening of December 29, 1981. After getting Paxton outside with a fabricated story about car trouble, they attacked him in his van. In the ensuing struggle, both Paxton and Langley were shot. Bailey managed to escape unharmed and fled to Georgia. He was later apprehended and returned to Nashville for trial. During the trial, a police officer testified about inculpatory statements made to him by Bailey in an interview shortly after Bailey's arrest in Georgia. The admission of these statements into evidence was affirmed by the Tennessee Court of Criminal Appeals.

http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F2/744/744.F2d.24.84-5161.html

paxton, the singer of Hollywood Argyles' "Alley Oop" turned religious in later years......my favorite quote from the "Tennessean" article was (paraphrasing) " God told me they were up to no good, and convinced me that I should slip a .38 into my pocket before walking out to their van with them......"

sturg - it's an age-old gag - well, that and wanting to give you religious literature.

and lest it escape notice......it was Darrell and Darryll............lol

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/03/cheney-aide-confirms-killer-sq.html#comment-215484

I really liked Ladies No. 1 - The only guns were the police looking for the kidnapped boy. No guns were shot at all. Even the local bad guy was threats not violence. He was in the first book.

I agree about the main reason the books are different is the lack of violence.

Also,

I woo woo'd and both messages left last night are missing. Guess they got lost in the great font problem.

Bethy,

Earl is pretty non judgemental in the usual sense. He does what angels do ... delivers messages. There is a great deal of humor in that, particularly when he is delivering one to some one like Grace's brother the priest. I love Earl.

His hangover cure this week was great.

and wasn't the other brother Larry?

Kill high level targets!!! OH NO, hope they weren't planning on targeting OBL for assassination. This is such utter foolishness by the Liberal press.

Here's an interesting new poll from WaPo on the economy, how it's being dealth with, whether the country is on the right track - that sort of thing.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/30/AR2009033003415.html?wprss=rss_politics

You can draw your own conclusions - I've drawn mine.

Who says there's no good investigative journalist left. My faith is restored, Seymour.

..... all this Tillman talk is peaking my interest.
......................

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/03/salesmaninchief.html#comment-215455
I can't tell you the laugh this gave me this morning Jack. Thanks.
(you wouldn't believe the stupid messes I get myself into)

One of the messages lost in the shuffle was one I brought forward from the last thread as it posted right at the thread change.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/03/salesmaninchief.html#comment-215472

Warren, Those were the ones going back to the 1980s that I was talking about. This has been a slow steady slide into hell over the past 30 years thanks to a cozy little arrangement and revolving doors between the money manglers and Congress. I believe the divide was 51% Republican 49% Democrat.

Now to chase down the names, who went from Congress to banks, who went from Banks to Congress and who shuffled the coin of the realm while passing in the halls.

Blonde, If you happen to look in here this morning, PLEASE let us know how your husbands surgery went.

good morning gang....

what?!!.... a secret list of high value targets.... I'm shocked.... SHOCKED... I tell ya....

Please don't tell me that Clinton had one too.... hell.... if that was so...
I'd have to go looking for hallucinogens ..... cuz I too want to believe that Cheney put Tillman on such a list because he opposed the Iraq war....

and if someone who composes the lists happens to read this here blog... I'd like to recommend a few kingpins of Mexican drug cartels be put on it...

TinR......but what if it was Tillman? That cool, too? I b'lieve everyone would have no problem with it's being usama bin.....How about maybe we find out, eh?

"You can draw your own conclusions - I've drawn mine."

Pogo, We didn't have to draw any conclusions. The article did it for us. :)

President Obama has said he will cut the deficit in half by the end of his first term, but which deficit is he referring to? The one from the Bush Administration that included the $750 billion last minute bail out plan, or his $3.5 trillion budget?

of course, usama bin headed for the hills and was allowed to make it into hiding somewhere, so it probably warn't him......

"what?!!.... a secret list of high value targets.... I'm shocked...."

The targets weren't what was surprising to me, Renee. It was Cheney's involvement. Is the VP the one who usually runs these things?

Craig

I think it has been an open secret that we have been taking out "high value targets " for some time. An incident in yemen comes to mind. Our assasins weapon of choice is a predetor drone armed with laser-guided AGM-114 Hellfire anti-tank missiles.
http://www.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?fsID=122

Ain't google wunnerful.

Jack

"of course, usama bin headed for the hills and was allowed to make it into hiding somewhere"

Like Julia said upthread...... 'The gang that couldn't shoot straight'.

Automatic spell check would be even more wunnerful

Jack

There have been such "squads" in many administrations. High level can mean anyone who poses a serious threat to our security, it isn't solely directed at heads of state, although JFK had Castro targeted. Please remember other countries have their own special hit squads to carry out such work on their behalf. This is such a nothing story.

TiR....
be careful.... next thing you know someone will try to convince us that Obama ain't really an American... (pssst.... I am in 100% agreement with your 9:41... but don't tell anyone)

Chloe... you've seen the list?.... are you really a spy?..... ;0)

Today's "Nature Watch" in my trusty Ben Franklin's Almanac (a publication by the Farmer's Almanac people) says if "you live in the eastern half of the United States, it's time to set up a bluebird box in an open field or clean out an existing box. To deter predators, such as snakes, raccoons or cats, install a predator guard on the pole below the box."

Here in the South, we put our boxes up by late February. First fledges come on or about Mother's Day. In past years I have lost successive about-to-fledge nests due to cat predation --despite having a raccoon baffle. Cats sit on the lid and extend a front paw through the hole. This year, I took a tip from some wildlife management people and installed a wire mesh in a fence-like style around the face of the box. It's been a month but, so far no bluebirds have even scouted it. My husband thinks they're not coming because I made it look like Guantanamo. However, the chickadees don't seem to mind; I may just have to let them have the box.

Here is a link to bluebird nest information and photos.

http://www.sialis.org/nestseabl.htm

Pogo
From your link
"At the same time, 62 percent see Obama as a "new-style," fiscally responsible Democrat; fewer, about a third, label him an "old-style" Democrat oriented toward taxing and spending"

A very good number for Obama imo.

Jack

http://www.vietnamwar.com/johnkennedyrole.htm

Assassination has been a tool of many of our leaders. It can be effective, unfortunately successes are largely never known. The coup/assassination of South Vietnamese leader Diem by JFK admin is best example of how this can go wrong.

It seems that some forgot our death squads in Nicaragua. Remember they killed nuns and children and we paid for them with tax payer dollars.

Does something like that make one proud to be an American?

As little billy would say in the cartoon section "Not I".

"On January 30, 2007, Senator Barack Obama introduced the Iraq War De-escalation Act of 2007 in a speech from the floor of the U.S. Senate. In describing the proposed legislation he said,

"This plan would not only place a cap on the number of troops in Iraq and stop the escalation, more importantly, it would begin a phased redeployment of U.S. forces with the goal of removing all U.S. combat forces from Iraq by March 31, 2008.

"In a civil war where no military solution exists, this redeployment remains our best leverage to pressure the Iraqi government to achieve the political settlement between its warring factions that can slow the bloodshed and promote stability."

Obama's proposed legislation came in the wake of President Bush's announcement of the troop surge. In a statement dated January 19, 2007, Obama said,

"I cannot in good conscience support this escalation. It is a policy which has already been tried and a policy which has failed. Just this morning, I had veterans of the Iraq war visit my office to explain to me that this surge concept is, in fact, no different from what we have repeatedly tried, but with 20,000 troops, we will not in any imaginable way be able to accomplish any new progress." Lee Cary

And I love the Big Brother moment where we can all rage about Cheney killing Tillman.

jack - those drones are flown by the military I believe - of course it could be the CIA for the military I suppose. That is hardly a secret program considering that it's been on the nightly news, in Time and Newsweek - you get the picture. And it is in the course and conduct of the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan (and illegally in Pakistan). This doesn't appear to be the same thing - this appears to be an assassination squad - which is prohibted by US law - specifically Executive Order 12333 - from the hero of the right - Ronnie.

http://tscm.com/EO12333.html

Here's the specific provision:

[Section]"2.11 Prohibition on Assassination.

"No person employed by or acting on behalf of the United States Government shall engage in, or conspire to engage in, assassination."

High value targets or not - it's a violation of an executive order, which has the force of law in this country, and which may be changed (it hasn't been) or avoided in one of 4 specific ways -

http://lists101.his.com/pipermail/intelforum/2007-April/009455.html

- none of which is to have the operation run out of the VP's office while he and those involved in the targeting and assassinating ignore that EO.

"Our assasins weapon of choice is a predetor drone armed with laser-guided AGM-114 Hellfire anti-tank missiles."

That is probably dead-on. But our Canadian friends have a more personal device. Little is talked about the Canadians involvement in Afghanistan, but they have the world's best sniper team. Weapon of choice a bolt action 50 cal. rifle. They have totally crushed the one shot one kill record held by U.S. Marine GySgt. Carlos Hathcock, http://oldbluejacket.com/CarlosHathcock.htm , The new record set by the Canadians is almost twice that distance. Nice shooting.

I wonder why there is a slippery slope for everything, but assassination squads, that everything else can "get out of hand" ........ but those assassins ...... they'll stay on the leash.

Sturg -
My friend Joe Don with his band in 1981 -

The Planets - PhiPsi Phandango

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daziHHvwaOI

"It's been a month but, so far no bluebirds have even scouted it."

Ivy, I don't know exactly how it works with birds, but if they've had problems with predators (cats) for a few years in a row, is it possible that their survival instincts kick in, and they don't come back?

Thought for the day :
" All work and no play makes jack. And lots of it. "

pogo...
of course it's illegal....
what got my juices flowing this morning is that anyone would actually believe that Tillman (or any other soldier) would be put on list that more than likely has the names of top Al Qaeda leaders just because he ranted about not liking the Iraq war....

sorry.... but such a thought had me wondering if I should open my new box of Depends....

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/03/cheney-aide-confirms-killer-sq.html#comment-215537

chloe, I guess that's true - to a point - My conclusion - Americans aren't as stupid as the Republican leadership thinks they are.

And yes, jack, I'd say those are good numbers for Obama.

jax, the banana republic actions of the 60s and 70s were the genesis, at least in part, of Reagan's EO banning assassination. One problem with what has been reported by Hirsch, if it indeed occurred, is that it was illegal, and if sufficient evidence exists of specific assassinations, you'll have yet another Scooter Libby taking the fall for the black hearted a$$hole who couldn't find anyone worse than himself to run the sh!t that he lorded over. It's just one more black mark against a thoroughly corrupt and morally and legally bankrupt adiminstration.

Renee, I doubt seriously that Tillman, if he was intentionally killed (and who knows - maybe so) was a target of that little program. If he was intentionally killed, I'd wager it was more likely that someof the members of his squad didn't like his open anti-Iraq war position and decided to shut him up. (Never mind that he gave up a lucrative NFL career to fight in the war he opposed, but I digress). But I am speculating.

TiR - EO 12333 doesn't apply to Canadians.

My mistake, it wasn't twice the distance, but the Canadians did set a new record. Again great shooting guys.

A Canadian sniper in Afghanistan has been confirmed as hitting an enemy soldier at a range of 2,310 meters (7565 ft/1.43 miles), the longest recorded and confirmed sniper shot in history. The previous record of 2,250 meters (7369 ft/1.4 miles) was set by US Marine sniper Carlos Hathcock in Vietnam in 1967. The Canadian sniper was at an altitude of 8,500 feet and the target, across a valley, was at 9,000 feet. Canadian sniper units often operated in support of US infantry units, which were grateful for their help. The record lasted only one day, until a second Canadian sniper hit an enemy soldier at 2,400 meters (7860 feet/1.48 miles). The Canadian snipers fire special 50-calibre McMillan tactical rifles, which are bolt-action weapons with five-round magazines. The Canadian snipers were the only Canadian troops operating without helmets or flak jackets as they had too much other equipment to carry. Each three-man team has one sniper rifle, three standard rifles Canadian (C7s), one of them with a 203mm grenade launcher.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/Beyond-AIG-A-Bill-to-let-Big-Government-Set-Your-Salary-42158597.html

Govt' control of private company wages.......hmmm......
And they said it's just for the rich.......and freedom slowly slips away.......

"but such a thought had me wondering if I should open my new box of Depends"

Thanks RR, that remark caught me off-guard. Now that is some pretty funny stuff.

BTW...
before anyone thinks I'm defending Cheney... I'm not... hate the bastard... and this does remind me of Ollie North and trading arms for hostages.... Reagan was as much a puppet as Bush, IMO... glad that stuff came to light..... glad Hersh will expose this also.... I'm not in agreement that there's nothing to it... (sometimes I let my snarkiness get ahead of me)

but.... no... I'm not shocked by it....
aren't all assassinations illegal and done in the shadows.... and yes... I don't care if they secretly kill Al Quaeda and or Mexican drug lords.... these people are pure evil and the planet would be better off without them, IMO...

1948 Albert Gore Jr Washington DC, (Senator-Democrat-TN, 1985-92)/45th US Vice President (1993 - 2001)

1492 Queen Isabella of Castilia & Ferdinand of Aragon expels Jews
1651 Great earthquake at Cuzco Peru
1745 Jews are expelled from Prague
1849 Colonel John W Geary arrives as 1st postmaster of San Francisco
1850 US population hits 23,191,876 (Black population: 3,638,808 (15.7%))
1854 Treaty of Kanagawa: Commodore Perry forces Japan to opens ports to foreign trade
1861 Confederacy takes over mint at New Orleans
1862 Civil War action at Island #10 on the Mississippi River
1878 Jack Johnson is 1st black to hold a heavyweight boxing title
1880 1st town completely illuminated by electric lighting (Wabash IN)
1889 300 meter Eiffel Tower officially opens (commemorates French Revolution)
1896 Whitcomb Judson, Chicago IL, patents a hookless fastening (zipper)
1918 1st daylight savings time in US goes into effect
1921 Albert Einstein lectures in New York on his new theory of relativity
1932 Ford publicly unveils its V-8 engine
1933 Congress authorizes Civilian Conservation Corps
1933 German Republic gives power to Hitler
1944 Hungary orders all Jews to wear yellow stars
1948 Congress passes Marshall Aid Act to rehabilitate war-torn Europe
1963 Los Angeles ends streetcar service after 90 years
1965 US ordered the 1st combat troops to Vietnam
1966 25,000 anti war demonstrators march in New York NY
1967 Jimi Hendrix begins his tradition of burning his guitar
1971 William L Calley Jr sentenced to life for My Lai Massacre
1980 President Jimmy Carter deregulates banking industry
1991 Danny Bonaduce attacks a transvestite prostitute in Phoenix AZ

yes, jax, we should just give them the money and let them do what they want - they've done such a good job with their own money, why wouldn't they do as well with ours? Well here's my take - if they want a bailout, it comes at a price. Here's another suggestion - let them fail.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/03/cheney-aide-confirms-killer-sq.html#comment-215562

Renee, well put.

Please everyone get a grip. It was public record that the Bush administration (and Obama?) advocated a new US capability to terminate bad guys anywhere in the world with advanced missiles. Of course, this capability is still being studied eventually it will involve scram powered missiles aboard subs and drones.

I think we are debating assassination v termination of terrorist targets. I posted several people above that fit that category and it is rather strange that civilians dying in US strikes to terminate bad guys today draws less fire than CIA teams putting the hit on wanted terrorists. Who did Cheney kill? Evidence? And yes, it was okay to let Saddam try to assassinate Bush 1, but terrible that we captured him and hung him until dead. Funny, some Democrats would have preferred simple asssassination.

Craig, just drop the name Cheney into the thread box and look at what you get. If the former VP had his way, Ahmadinejad, Hugo, Assad would all be dead. And let's all defend Mullah Omar from assassination when evidence supports his assassinating Bhutto. And we should talk to this guy? Ahmadinejad was involved in the killing of Jews in Argentina. Assad in Lebanon. Gaddafi tried to kill King Abullah and he leads Africa...lol. Who killed Sadat? This deadly dance has been going on for some time. And Anon, Carter supported those in SA that murdered priests, women and children. Hugo does the same with his support for FARC.

Pogo,
Let them fail has been my stance all along. But you see to do that wouldn't allow for as much gov't control.

It is a steady progression of control that I'm highlighting. Of course it's going to be under the guise of fariness and equitability.

Its a ruse which a majority of the populace will embrace.......sheep that they are....:)

"Well here's my take - if they want a bailout, it comes at a price. Here's another suggestion - let them fail."

Exactly Pogo. You covered all the bases.

"Its a ruse which a majority of the populace will embrace.......sheep that they are"

Ah, Jax, It sounds like you're blaming the public for this (although, I'm sure you didn't mean it that way).

I know you see it as government control, and therefore a loss of our freedom. And I agree with you. But you have to admit, those companies willingly gave up a lot of their independence when they took that money. I guess what you're mad at, is that the government offered it in the first place. You notice Ford said no, and no ones bothering them (that I know of).

In life, things like laws, rules and regulations only apply should you get caught violating them and end-up suffering the consequences for your actions. But not if you don't get caught.

Yous buy your ticket, yous take your chances

Peanuts ...now pistachios. Know where your food comes from and insist the FDA know as well. Food tracking is not rocket science.

"Yous buy your ticket, yous take your chances"

... after weighing out the possible consequences.

Chloe,
I believe that the gov't is deciding on winners and losers. Not to the betterment of our free society but toward a higher level of control.

As far as the public is concerned I do blame them for perpetuating the issue. Where is the outrage over the gov't involvement in this? Where is the demand that every legislator on the banking and finance committees be terminated and investigated? They are so complicit it stinks.....Yet they still sit there....making new rules.....it sickens me....

Chloe...
I love the fact that Ford said no..... I'm seriously considering making my next car purchase a Ford because of that fact.... I owned a Ford Escape for 6 yrs before my present Subaru Forester..... LOVED that car.... but I hated the only 16-17 MPG....

Peanuts ...now pistachios Know where your food comes from.

Answer. Georgia and California.

jax, I know you supported that, but that is water under the bridge. Sorry, but it was the party of no government control that started us down this road - bailout and do it NOW or the world as we know it will end, but oh, no, we can't put ANY restrictions on the money. And the patsies on both sides of the aisle were stupid enough to buy the Bush - Paulson plea. But the AIGs of the world (not to mention Merrill-Lynch - who was much worse but somehow operated under the radar) didn't have the good sense to get down to business and stop the insanity. And they did it openly and stupidly and tried to use a "we had to because they were under contract" argument to defend tihe idiocy. And some in congress, led by poster child Barney Frank, finally said, "No, and not again." Now the voters are outraged that no oversight accompanied the bailout, and while there is an outcry against government control of business by those who begged for our money, they ain't willing to man up and fix the problems they've created and instead dispatch their moron commentators - like the idiot you provided a link to - to distract from the real issue - which is what got us to this point and what needs to be done to change the frickin' financial industry leadership that got us to this ridiculous place to begin with.

"Where is the outrage over the gov't involvement in this?"

And how are we supposed to show that outrage Jax. The only way I know how (besides my vote) is here on this blog. And what are we accomplishing here? It sickens me too. But think how powerless we are as individuals. It takes a lot of organization to do anything.

Not really ...some of the problem peanuts came from Texas

"after weighing out the possible consequences."

In the world we would all like to live in that would be true, in reality sometimes you just don't have the luxury of taking your time.

"I believe that the gov't is deciding on winners and losers. Not to the betterment of our free society but toward a higher level of control."

I'm sure you're right. It's always about 'control'.

Contact:
Fabia D’Arienzo
540-668-7665

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE -- Terra Bella, CA (March 30, 2009) – Setton Pistachio of Terra Bella, Inc. announced today that it is voluntarily recalling from nationwide distribution specific lots of bulk roasted shelled pistachios and 2,000 lbs., 1,700 lbs., 1,800 lbs. and 1,000 lbs. tote bags of roasted inshell pistachios sold to wholesale customers due to potential contamination with the Salmonella organism.

This voluntary recall affects certain bulk roasted inshell and roasted shelled pistachios shipped on or after September 1, 2008. The bulk product was distributed throughout the United States. The Company is voluntarily taking this precautionary measure after learning that a small amount of roasted shelled pistachios processed by Setton Pistachio and received by a commercial customer in late 2008 recently tested positive for Salmonella. This voluntary recall is not in any way related to the recent recalls associated with peanuts or peanut butter.

The Company is asking those firms who received bulk product and have further processed, repackaged, or distributed the affected products to recall those products and contact FDA.

In addition, the company is voluntarily recalling the following retail product: Setton Farms brand roasted salted shelled pistachios in 9 oz. film bags, UPC Code: 034325020252 with a "Best Before" date between 01/06/10 and 01/19/10. This product was distributed in the following states: SC, GA, FL, NC, VA, TN, KY. Consumers should not consume this product and should return what they may have to the place of purchase for a full refund. Setton has established a toll free number, (888) 228-3717, for consumers to call for further information.

TiR....
your 10:37 reminds me of how many people in this country take illicit drugs even though it is illegal to do so.... some of which is contributing to those awful killings happening in Mexico and along our southern border...
I guess which illegal thing outrages you depends on which side of the aisle you're on....

Chloe,
I believe that if there was real public outcry for heads to roll in the banking and finance committees that they would. Both parties would gladly eat their own if it would help to paint them as doing something constructive.....

"Not really ...some of the problem peanuts came from Texas "

I was being a bit glib with my reply, although I was unaware that peanuts grew in Texas. Similar to when one thinks of peaches they think of Georgia (the Peach State), but neighboring South Carolina produces more peaches. Just some more food for thought. :-)

jax, there are mechanisms in our system to do what exactly what you suggest - btw it's called representative democracy. The elected officials face recall between elections and have to be re-elected if not recalled. If yours are on the committees you think were complicit, vote them out in 2010 if they're up or demand a recall election if they aren't or you can't wait that long. And if you think the ethics committees of the house and senate aren't doing their job and yours are on those committees, ditto. If you don't like the system, get elected and try to change it - Don Quixote will be proud - and so will I.

"I believe that if there was real public outcry for heads to roll in the banking and finance committees that they would."

That can't happen without organization. One person at a time ain't gonna make anything happen, unless you can find a way to bring them all together.

KGC

From reading that press release I believe I will win the lottery before I become sick from a contaminated pistachio. Wish I had went ahead and bought that big bag at Costco the other day.:-(

Jack

Pogo,
While I appreciate the lesson in civics, you know it's not necessary to wait to vote them out to remove them from committees.
By absolutely any measure they failed in their duties as members of these committees.
Why are they still there?

jack

like the peanut recall...probably just the begining
months later peanut products are still being recalled

http://www.fda.gov/opacom/7alerts.HTML

you can get all the pistachio (and other food) recalls at this site

So what's happened to make the Dow return to positive territory - release of the report on the record drop in home prices in January? Anyone who looks to the Dow as a barometer of anything other than the Dow is gonna have a long anguished life.

RR,

Those awful killings in Mexico are the same type of killings that took place in Colombia not to many years ago. The reason for the killings has to do with the turf wars between the drug cartels. The presence of these Mexican drug cartels are in a strange way the result from law enforcement action which diverted the smuggling operation routes into the US using boat and air, to land using Mexico as the conduit into the US. In Miami during the 80's it was the Cocaine Cowboys, Cubans & Colombians, killing one another over turf. Colombians won that war.

friend of mine was a marine sniper in nam....2 man team, spotter and shooter.....that's all i know and i dont know how it worked because he doesnt talk about it much....

SCOTUS rejects Altria's appeal of huge verdict in Oregon.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/01/business/01bizcourt.html?hp

Couldn't happen to a nicer group of fellas.

Jax...
here's an article about 2 heads of committees from this week's Economist that I think you might find interesting....
http://www.economist.com/world/unitedstates/displaystory.cfm?story_id=13362844

that sucks about pistachios.... they are one of my favorite tv watching snack foods....

jax, that's correct - they can be removed from the committees - but that's unlikely, and it isn't likely that the dem leadership views the issue as you do - and the republican leadership - where their heads are they aren't likely to see anything but ... well, you know.

Pogo,
It's interesting, but I've not met anyone that thinks that the house or senate committees have done a good job. I think that if our new president really wanted to make an impression...particularly to the general public he'd ask for the
resignations of the heads of both committees just like he did the CEO of GM.
I think it would send a strong message to congress as well that he is....in fact...in charge......

Renee, if you're like I am, any pistachios that might have been affected by the recall have already gone through your local sewage treatment plant (or your septic tank). An example - I got a recall notice last month on some granola bars I bought in September - and ate by October. Hmmm, probably got the notice a little too late to do me any good at all.

jax, he can ask, but it is not something anyone should expect to be effective. Separation of powers and all that. It's an apples to oranges comparison. btw, I don't think the head of GM should have been asked to resign. Of all the CEOs who should have been considered for the axe, IMHO he would be at or near the bottom of the list.

"1963 Los Angeles ends streetcar service after 90 years "

CBob

I remember that day. It was so sad and so shortsighted.

Loved the scenes from "Who Framed Roger Rabbit?" showing the streetcars before the freeways. There really was a time when you could get a speeding ticket on the Harbor and San Bernardino. :-)

Money
Government Gone Wild
"Government spending does not cause a net increase in jobs over the long run; it costs jobs. Every dollar the government spends is either taxed or borrowed from the private sector, which means it "crowds out" private sector job creation. And because government spending is less efficient than private sector spending, the economy actually grows more slowly in the long run as the government gets bigger.

.... Ultimately, in order to assist "losing" companies, government has to collect more resources (meaning taxes) from "winning" companies and individuals.

With bailouts, jobs will be saved in certain sectors, like autos, and politicians will be able to easily count the number of jobs they have saved. Meanwhile, many other sectors will face higher taxes and a higher cost of capital, resulting in slower job gains and some outright job losses in industries across the country. The problem is that no one will be able to identify with any certainty those who are worse off because the government bailed out someone else."
http://www.forbes.com/2009/03/30/stimulus-budget-deficit-opinions-columnists-bailout-employment.html

pogo...
yeah.... you're probably right.... those pistachios are long gone into the bubbling and gurgling action of our septic tank....

TiR.... all drug lords.... no matter where they come from.... are just so much bile on the stream of human flotsam and jetsam, IMO....

that Economist article I linked is about B. Franks and C. Dodd.... they apparently really like Franks and really don't like Dodd.... interesting reading and only a one pager....

Renee
I would go ahead and eat all the pistachios I want. I suspect you're are more likely to get salmonella from the organic foods at your local farmers market, as they tend to use manure to enrich their soil, then you will from the recalled pistachios.
What we are seeing here is a result of better testing and information done by the commercial food industry rather than an increase in contaminated food.

Jack

Actually Jack
the only one with manure here is you.

The commercial food industry has less testing and a greater increase in contaminated food and the feds have few tools to do anything about it.

"2 man team, spotter and shooter"

And that is it, just the 2 of you all alone.

The spotter locates the target and directs the shooter to the target, giving the shooter other pertinent information such as wind direction and speed, yardage, number of bad guys, terrain. The shooter has to make the first shoot count, since the bullet travels faster than sound, the target once hit will fall over. This confuses the enemy as they do not know the direction of the shot, and you don't know which way they may run, and you don't know if they have other troops in the nearby field. The sniper team may have to stay in their same position for hours afterwards as Charlie will eventually come looking for you.

the "testing" is being done by consumers
nine people died as a result of the salmonella in peanut butter
heck of a job FDA

Pogo,

You know the routine...some head had to roll....appearances and all that. I don' think that he performed that well as CEO. But the board should have handled his resignation. Not our President.

I wish that Pres Obama would involve himself less in this minutia. He's appearing increasingly managerial and less executive all the time....not a good situation to perpetuate.

The FDA found out about the pistachios because consumers complained...

There have been no confirmed cases of consumers sickened by salmonella-contaminated pistachios. Two consumers, one on each coast, have recently complained to the FDA of gastric distress after eating pistachio nuts, but officials don't know if they're related to the current recall.
http://www.medpagetoday.com/PublicHealthPolicy/PublicHealth/13519

"The commercial food industry has less testing and a greater increase in contaminated food "
KGC

WADR, Bullshit and you know it.

I love pistachios, have always loved them. As a kid there were the ones that had their shells dyed red, which got all over you hands. I don't see the red ones any more just the naturals. But my downfall are the shelled pistachios. Oh god they are so good. No messy shells, no hard to open, or those that you can't open, no more running a splintered shell under your finger nail.

jax, oh, I don't know - he started cutting down the number of brands GM was trying to support - and was trying to do more of that with Hummer - only nobody's buying at present, and under his leadership the GM brand has made some efforts to increase fuel economy on the one hand (while fighting CAFE standards on the other), move toward production of more hybrid vehicles (even though the replacement batteries are supposedly over twice as expensive as Toyota's) and got spokespersons as diverse as Hannity and Ed Schltz to try and convince us that GM products are just peachy (despite a load of consumer opinion to the contrary). Maybe you're right.

I backed up my assertion...the FDA is not finding the contamination
consumers are

show me where there is more inspection
but I'll be waiting a long time for that since it isn't true

"There have been no confirmed cases of consumers sickened by salmonella-contaminated pistachios"

So why do we know about this?
An increase in information sharing between the government and industry and the public and precautionary testing by industry.

Jack

"all drug lords.... no matter where they come from.... are just so much bile on the stream of human flotsam and jetsam, IMO...."

And your opinion is one I share.

http://barfblog.foodsafety.ksu.edu/

It wh'unt the FDA that found it.

"In fact, regulators said the salmonella bacteria were discovered during routine testing of pistachios by Kraft Foods, whose branded products use nuts produced by Setton Pistachio."

Sharing information is not an increase of inspections...
It may mean an increase in consumer power but not much else

there is no mandatory recall....so the pistachio recalls will dribble in just like the peanut recalls

KGC

In all of your posts are absolute proof of what I said.

How in the **** do you think you found out about it before large numbers got sick and released the information to the public?
Or do you believe in the inspection fairy.

Jack

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/03/cheney-aide-confirms-killer-sq.html#comment-215554

Chloe;

I think you are completely right. Someone had suggested I re-position the box a quarter-turn on the pole and I did - sometimes that persuades them - but so, far nada. Well, chickadees are cute too.

There was no inspection. Consumer illness and complaints drove the story.

The media drove the story, personal injury lawyers drove the information not the federal government or fda inspections.

If you look over the history of the peanut recall. PCA has numerous violations and nothing was done..plus because there was no mandatory recall, people were still subject to getting sick and on their own to figure out what products were safe

Here's a little financial news to ponder

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2009/03/31/business/business-us-usa-fed-stern.html

"The issue of knowing when the crisis will happen is not possible to human beings," Greenspan said.

Does anyone talk like that (and does anyone believe sucha self-serving statement?)

Jack
you are full of manure and I rather doubt it is organic

"But the board should have handled his resignation. Not our President."

jax, somebody said on the news last night that the board usually is beholden to the guy that put them on the board in the first place.... and maybe the term "fired" is incorrect. probably more of a negotiation than a dismissal, voluntary at that. too much hype trying to make the pres more macho.

Talking Big Brother, if you were worried about the Bush Administration, get a load at what Barney Frank has in mind.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/Beyond-AIG-A-Bill-to-let-Big-Government-Set-Your-Salary-42158597.html

The global incidence of foodborne illness continues to rise. The World Health Organization estimates that up to 30 per cent of individuals in developed countries suffer from foodborne illness each year . Current strategies for compelling individuals and organizations to practice food safety appear inadequate and are rarely evaluated. The U.S. Centers for Disease Control reported in April 2008 that efforts to reduce foodborne illness have stalled. New messages using new media are required to create a culture that values microbiologically safe food.

Since you have so much faith in the FDA

The FDA is advising consumers not to eat any pistachio products, but not to throw them out, either, because additional recalls are likely and having products that could be turned in would allow for easier tracing of contamination. The agency is setting up a Web site to update the public.

sort of contrary to the advice you've been handing out....

"There was no inspection"

KGC
I am operating totally on information you have supplied. You told me about the inspections. And the inspections were done (it appears, again from information you supplied) on the mere complaint of a few people having stomach discomfort. Not any proof of salmonella in the food supply. If you can't recognise that as a marked increase in the amount of testing done by industry then.................

Jack

NEW THREAD.. http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/03/dittoheads-go-global.html

Pogo,

Alot of signals for this current crisis were missed or ignored by alot of folks....hindsight being what it is. I don't remotely excuse any of the commercial interests involved. By all accounts though it appears that the commercial industries and many of the individuals involved will suffer for it.

But have you seen even one gov't official admit responsibility or culpability. Much less suffer for it. Greenspan will get a pass because he's old and he's a welcome diversion for those still in office.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/03/31/business/AP-Verizon-Executive-Compensation.html

Here's one company that's doing it their way. I hate Verizon - a bunch of scoundrels.

Final bird item (well, maybe) -- my migrant hummingbirds have an internal clock that bring them to my window for the first time on April 1. It took me several years to catch on to their trick - in the past, they hovered with their little beaks at the window pane, scolding my lateness. But I'm trainable, and this year I'm ready and waiting.

The inspections came as a result of the complaints from consumers and was done by the companies (Kraft) not the FDA

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/03/cheney-aide-confirms-killer-sq.html#comment-215625

Bettter spread of information, better testing.

Not that there is an increas of food born illness. That is just historically silly.

Jack

"and under his leadership the GM brand has made some efforts to ... move toward production of more hybrid vehicles"

pogo, yeah and didn't he make a big splash introducing the hydrogen car early 2000.... even put some proto types to use by a municipal service somewhere in japan of all places. the thing's been called a lot of different names since that 1st announcement and other comapnies are making their own versions.

Posted by: whskyjack Author Profile Page | March 31, 2009 12:06 PM

the "testing" comes as a result of consumer complaints
after the fact of illness...this hardly counts as consumer protection

There is a in increase in food borne illness and a decrease in the amount of oversight by the govt...which is why there are about fifty bills pending to change it

The only silliness here is me trying to talk to you about something you know nothing about..

NEW THREAD