Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Burris should go. Can't be down on others for lying and cheating and still let this man stay in office. I've always been suspicious of him. He always seemed to be too willing to be the victim and too willing to bask in the spotlight. I think he would do anything to gain fame and attention.

woo-hoo?

Oh! I was first? WOO HOOO!

ah, true and blue in a first-post smackdown. sorry blue, but you missed it by a minute

Burris is the least of our problems,,,,seat him and get on with fixing what is wrong,,,time will get him out of their,,,they are already planning who will replace him.

From last Thread
A mail mans job looks pretty good to me about now,,,,,gov, ins, and benifits,,,all you have to do is take a little walk and delivery the goods,,,exercsie is good,,,and no one to look over you shoulder all day long.

I wish that Greenspan would STFUP,,,,why can't he just stay out of the lime light?? This financial mess is so intertwined that it is hard to come up with who and what is exactly to blame,,,and to what degree,,,,the Clinton administration did this,,,the bush did that ,,,

The way that I see it is that..both the Congress and the Senate did not do their jobs of looking out for the country,,,they just fattened their wallets,,,and helped their friends in the big Corps,,and this is all our faults,,,yes our faults,,,,we elect them into office over and over again,,,,,,,there should be term limits,,,this limits the abuse that they can do,,,,,they should have revolving heads( each party to take a turn) of committees,,,every 2 years,,( every one year would be better) this would give a clear picture of where the $ is being spent,,,it would be like an annual audit,,,,while being in disbursing (pay roll dept) in the Marines,,,we had to clear all of our paper work regularly by internal check points ( it is very complicated to keep all pay grades and benefit straight,and seniority, housing,and a lot more but it is done)....but we keep electing the same people over and over,,,they can cook the books ,,,for a while and get away with it,,,,,both parties do it no?

I also blame the two party system ,,,,and it is all our fault for this,,,,we don't insist on a third party,,,,we keep voting the screw ups in,,,,and saying that the third party's only function is to keep some issue on the table is bull,,,,,we belong to the in crowd of the Dems,,,or the Repubs,,,and once on one side or the other we want it our way or the high way,,,they both f---k up royally,,,and all we want to do is argue about who is the biggest F---k up,,,

Most of the people of (both parties) can't tell the diff between hard news,,,,soft news and entertainment,,,(Tm's crowd does,,,,but) so they are content to get it from SNL,,,all of the night comedy shows,,,yeah they don't laugh with us,,,they laugh all the way to the bank,,,,Will Ferell is making lot of the shitiest movies that anyone can make,,,I offer that as proof,,,,but he is still making them,,,cos he is a SNL star,,,msnbc,,,cnn,,,,fox ,...they all went into the entertainment biz,( they dedicate a part of the news show to how well they did on thier appearance of the Leno show or some other,,,I want the news from them not the bs),,and we put them there,,,,it is our fault,,,,all of it,,,,,and yes court jesters should be part of the Kings pleasures,,,,but not his political information Guru....This problem will go away eventually but , a lot of people will suffer cos of the two party system,,,,,,,,,and it will do so again and again,,,,,,,,and again I offer as proof the S & L debacle,,term limits and a third party ,,,will also end --or limit the special interest groups,,,except the special interest of the country!!! IMO.

...or only by a second.

Now to Burris. Unless the conversation with Blago's bro specifically state that they wanted Burris to raise money in exchange for the seat...and, unless Burris said he would do it...no harm, no foul. Did Burris ever actually do anything for Blago? Do they look at "oridinary course of business" in a situation like this one?

" Did Burris ever actually do anything for Blago? -- posted by blueINdallas"

here's the thing i wonder about -- since Blago was impeached and ousted shortly after Burris got in, we'll never know whether Burris would have helped Blago raise money as a senator. Burris says he didn't raise money for him before getting appointed, so that's something in his defense, if it's true

and btw, there must be surveillance tapes of the Burris conversations with Blago's bro -- that would certainly be an incentive for Burris to come forward as he did -- how those tapes sound, if they exist, will probably make a big difference

What is the "ordinary course of business" rule in politics? Lots of the icky & unethical, but illegal? He can't be held accountable for something that he might have done if Blago hadn't been given the boot.

The whole thing just smells bad. Burris may be an ok individual, but the feeling I get from him is that in his eyes it would be ok to fundraise for a fellow politician who was doing him a favor. He obviously wanted the position badly. Just my feeling.

Whether he did or didn't, it was politically inept to not be totally clear and forthright about any dealings with the governor from the get go. He knew there were tape recordings, and that people around the governor were being investigated. By not doing so he has cast further shadow on his appointment and now looks like he has been hiding something.

This focus that Blago has put on political pay-to-play deals may change alot of the way deals are done. I know that is how lots of things have been done for years in politics. Maybe some stricter ethical rules can come out of this. Course they'll just figure out a new way around them.

I'm with Solar -- I wish Greenspan would STFU. He's just trying to shift any blame from himself.

Craig is really on a tear today ... too many issues and not enough time for all the columns. Maybe he should just let us know when it is our turn to be first.

god.... let's see...... Burris.... Blago..... Bush..... Boehner..... Bubba.....

what's with all the B's...... :0)

"it would be ok to fundraise for a fellow politician who was doing him a favor."

As would any other politician out there. The ugly little secret is that most of the things that Blagovich was caught saying on tape is not that unusual.
Demanding that someone prove they are a loyal supporter and team player is just common sense politics.

Going beyond exchanging political favors is what may have gotten Blagovich in trouble. Ex. asking for money, property or a job for a family member. Political contributions don't count as money or all members of the senate would be in jail.

Jack

Really liked the Presidents speech,,,of his 3 step program,,,,,,

What I really liked is that he understands the importance of the residential small Construction Contractors,,,,and the part about letting small communities have an input on how to make programs work...

"I know that is how lots of things have been done for years in politics. Maybe some stricter ethical rules can come out of this. Course they'll just figure out a new way around them"
.http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/02/burris-on-the-run.html#comment-201513

True believer,,,,u r making my point
with a third party,,,the D's and The R's can't get away with the finger pointing games that they play.

"It may be necessary to temporarily nationalise some banks in order to facilitate a swift and orderly restructuring."

Guess who is sounding like Hugo Chavez ?

None other that economic libertarian, Alan Greenspan.

Black is white , up is down

Chinese communists are spouting libertarian free trade talking points.

Score card? Hell even with a score card you can't keep track.

Jack

Gasoline prices continue to creep ...well speed back up.
Obama should jawbone the gas companies

http://www.kplctv.com/Global/story.asp?S=9854339&nav=menu66_6_3

Or maybe cut the gas tax as long as we are cutting taxes

Burris isn't the only person in the senate who lied to get in.

Rez,,,thanks for that book site,,,,pretty good,,,clicked on Darwin and found a book for ---CAROL----its named,,,I heard the Owl call my name,,,,by Margret Craven.

Rez -- That is a great booksite!!!! I especially love the page about great cover art....

Craig, maybe Burris doesn't know what quid pro quo means?

RR, now you know where all the missing bees have gone.

One last thouht on Burris and it is back to work.

Nothing has changed, with the Republicans being obstructionist then every democratic vote is needed. Otherwise they will need to get 4 Republicans to vote for any bill they want to pass. As the stimulus bill proved, Republican votes are expensive.

Jack

If you scrimped and save, live below your means, as a method to save for a down payment to buy a home you could afford, and you now find your homes value is less than the mortgage balance, known as underwater, President Obama's plan will be of no help. However, if you purchase a home that you couldn't afford and you're now facing foreclosure, President Obama's plan is there to help you by lowering the lower payments, lowering the mortgage balance, and or lower interest rate.

Lesson learned, those who play by the rules, get punished. Those who cheat, lie, can't read, keep refinancing our home and pulling money out, then their homes are foreclosed on, are the winners.

Change we can count on.

Rez

Indeed that is part of the proposed plan

The draft bills include plans to raise the state sales-tax rate to 8.25 percent from 7.25 percent; boost vehicle license fees to 1.15 percent from 0.65 percent of the value of an automobile; add 12 cents to the per-gallon gasoline tax; reduce the dependant-care tax credit to $100 from $300 and impose a surcharge on income taxes of up to 5 percent.

Jack ----I was listening to A Greenspan while he said to Nationalize Banks,,,,,and my only reaction ,,,,was to piss and moan,,,can't he go away,,,,,,maybe make A Mitchel stay at home a little more and enjoy the cash that they have,,,,,,I don't understand people like them,,,,they only have a little time left here on this earth,,,and they waste it by giving us bullshit,,,and that goes for McCain,,,,go and enjoy the world,,,,,thats what I would do,,,,find some place that no man has stepped on and FN die there,,,,,no pc,,,no economy,no bullshit but you and where you came from HA,,,,I guess that Im in a bad mood,,another nephew just lost or will lose his job,,,,,,later

"Burris isn't the only person in the senate who lied to get in. -- Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker"

ha, KGC wins Comment of the Day!

I don't see how losing your house to foreclosure makes you a winner. There are consequences including tax consequences unless you also declare bankruptcy. It is false to think you walk away clean from the loan by turning in your keys. And many of the people losing their homes, played by the rules. The rules changed and left them hanging out to dry.

Posted by: Craig Crawford Author Profile Page | February 18, 2009 2:22 PM

http://www.fiftiesweb.com/elvis/elvis.wav

Ping, I had to run out to do this and that. I like the sinking ship analogy. Clearly our economic ship has more than one hole capable of sinking it. I read an article in Time while I was out doing this and that. The article was in part a discussion with Larry Summers (probably from discussions a couple of weeks ago). According to Summers, Obama's plan to repair the holes in the ship is deliberate and multifaceted and is proceeding along the lines Summers outlined in the article. You may disagree with which hole is the largest, but recall that Bush thought the biggest hole was lack of liquidity in the lending and investment sectors that could be repaired with TARP funds - he was wrong. Obama has devised two approaches to fix the holes that the TARP fix didn't fix - the first one was passed last week and was intended to be broad and encompass more than one leak. According to Summers, they are now proceeding to address the problem you consider the biggest leak. Summers is a pretty smart guy, and I am inclined to believe he has a better insight into the cause of the problems and a better idea of how to address these problems than I do. Trying to blame the lack of recovery at this early point of Obama's administration or on Obama's lack of progress doesn't strike me as legitimate criticism. He had legislation ready to go and put it out there after presenting it to Congress and letting Congress consider then pass it in an amended form. Take your shots, but I'm inclined to give Obama and Summers' plan a chance.

And Burris - if he didn't agree to raise funds for Blago, there could not have been a quid pro quo, so he couldn't have known about it under those circumstances. And do we know whether Blago's bro was being wiretapped? This was really the first I had heard about his brother.

Truth - . Real estate values have been subject to fluctuations from time to time for as long as I've been buying the stuff, as have loan rates. Being upside down is punishment in only 2 instances - if you want to sell or refinance. Otherwise, if you can afford the payments on your home, whether you are upside down or not, the house is still the house, so stay put. Same thing has happened with most investments - I've seen LP's college fund shrink by almost 40% in the past year (thank you, The Hartford). The matress investment plan would have been better, but I'm not punished because someone else might have chosen an investment vehicle that did not lose value, and mine didn't lose value because I played by the rules.

"Craig, maybe Burris doesn't know what quid pro quo means? -- Posted by: eprof2"

eprof, you are runner-up for Comment of the Day -- should KGC be unable to fulfill her duties

congrats, KGC, you're a "tweet" -- http://twitter.com/craig_crawford

I gladly accept! Now, KGC don't let me down as you fulfill the office of "best commenter of the day."

Jamie, Seatlle isn't all that far from Vancouver is it?

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/02/burris-on-the-run.html#comment-201519

Thanks Rez. That looks like a great site that needs a lot of exploring. Who told you I used to read by flashlight under the covers until the wee hours when I was a kid.

eprof2

I gladly accept! Now, KGC don't let me down as you fulfill the office of "best commenter of the day.

Yikes

I thought I could rest on my laurels for Comment of Day. I may need a nap to continue as best commenter of the day-- lots of competition here. During my nap you are up!

btw all, please test the C-SPAN video player on today's post and report any issues. i am working with them on this new feature. I've already noticed they need to add a volume control button and they're on the case. otherwise, it seems quite nifty.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/02/burris-on-the-run.html#comment-201530

Rez, For his time period both Lincoln and the part of the Whig party that became the Republicans were abolitionists, but they were products of their time and culture as well. Even among prominant blacks, a return to Africa was a goal at a later time. It is the reason Liberia was created, why its capital is called Monrovia, its currency is the dollar, and the official language is English.

i take that back, they've fixed the volume slider. it's just under the Program Info button

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/02/burris-on-the-run.html#comment-201542

Pogo,

Vancouver, WA Two Hours

Vancouver, BC Three Hours

Jamie - may be you have friends who visit who could get that generic plavix product - or maybe you need a trip sometime - just thinkin'.

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2009/2/18/114451/389

Pretty good discussion of the Obama mortgage rescue plan
HASP and why it isn't HLOC

A fine mess - Bushco's gift that keeps giving - DC Circuit reverses lower court ruling on 17 Gitmo detainees - puts them in limbo.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/02/18/washington/AP-Guantanamo-Detainees.html?hp

Jamie, just read your blog post on the medical scare. Glad it's not too serious. Bet you look good in purple.. http://tinyurl.com/dbf65q

Ok from the MOMENT I saw Burris on TV, I thought something was really wrong with this guy. I didn't like him or trust him. He was far too intoxicated with the idea of being a senator. Most politicians are power junkies, but he seemed to salivate anytime he spoke about being the "duly appointed junior senator from Illinois". That he lied (or at best didn't disclose clearly pertinent information) doesn't speak well of his character or trustworthiness.

What a shame that the DEMS have to continue with this shit when there are far more important problems in our country and world.

ah Rez..... did ya have to go and post a great book site like that..... as if I don't buy enough books already...... :)

"Score card? Hell even with a score card you can't keep track.".... Jack..... ain't that the truth..... I keep pluggin' away at trying to understand this mess..... for what good it does.....

........ waving at eprof ..........

Vancouver is not far, but if there is a border control you can have a problem.

Can't say I know what the BC US/CA checkpoint is like. When I drove to Quebec and back maybe 20 years ago, the thought that your car might be stopped for more than a cursory look at your driver's licence would have been laughable. But that was a different world, wasn't int?

OK, here aere a couple of pretty smart guys who seem to know something about TARP and FSP giving what appears to be good advice. Seems like this kind of stuff might have occurred to BushCo and the congress when they started doling out TARP money last Fall.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/18/opinion/18scharfstein.html?hp

Hopefully the Obama admin and Congress learned something from the TARP Fup.

Oops.

http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/clout_st/2009/02/roland-burris-faces-media-scrum-more-calls-for-resignation.html

"On Monday night, speaking to reporters in a largely uninterrupted explanation, Burris disclosed for the first time that he had sought unsuccessfully to raise money for Blagojevich at the same time he was expressing his interest in the Senate seat to a number of the governor's allies.

"The disclosure called into question his longstanding assertion that there was never any discussion of him doing favors for the governor, who had sole authority to decide the appointment to the Senate seat Burris coveted."

Now that doesn't look too good for Roland, does it?

Craig + Jamie = power couple??? Life is short...

Hope the MSM doesn't cover Burris 24/7..........a 30 second clip here and there is okay....just seems like such a tired story.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/02/burris-on-the-run.html#comment-201563

unlikely, what's tired about this story is how Democrats are such hypocrites when one of their own is in the lurch. seems to me that Obama needs to take charge of this ridiculous situation and fix it.

What do you suggest Obama does?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jane-hamsher/dc-journalists-love-gop-o_b_167277.html

Heheh - looks like my take on the popularity of the Repug leadership was about right.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jane-hamsher/dc-journalists-love-gop-o_b_167277.html

Boner and McConnell - today's big losers.

champ's friend, uh, Bill <--cute moniker

just read this and, based on it, conclude that our gracious host is a fox and not a hedgehog. at least i think he's foxy.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/184815/output/print

"What do you suggest Obama does? -- Posted by: unlikely_burrito"

he's the president of the united states, leader of his party and we're talking about his old senate senate. it wouldnt take much to force this guy out and replace him with a Democrat who can win the seat in the next election,.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/02/burris-on-the-run.html#comment-201565

Good question UB. I could be wrong, but I think it's outside his bailiwick.

Craig, do you see something compliant in Burris that I'm missing? He came to DC knowing he wouldn't be seated, hung around until they fashioned a compromise that seated him, and has consistentnly denied any wrongdoing (even in the face of this latest admission that he tried to raise funds for Blago while he was lusting after Obama's seat.) Defiant, yes, compliant? Not that I see.

"...it wouldnt take much to force this guy out..."

like make him ambassador and give him another title to chisel on his monument?

"Burris for North Korean ambassadorship"
http://ricks.foreignpolicy.com/blog/2187

I know people can be greedy, but first the Salmonella Peanut Butter and now this plan to distribute "unfit for food" tomato paste

http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/crime/archives/019737.html

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/02/burris-on-the-run.html#comment-201553

Craig, It is the "Imperial" color ... maybe a nice toga?

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/02/burris-on-the-run.html#comment-201571

pogo, my point is simply this: if D's want to hand over a Senate seat to the GOP in the next election, defending this fool is certainly the way to do it

hey Jamie....
I've been meaning to ask you if you've seen Animal Planet's new series on Friday nights called "Jockeys".....

got caught up with the series last Friday and it's a must see for anyone into horse racing.....

I received an e-mail from Famous Dave's (the bbq restaurant). It says Dave's "stimulus deals" are full of pork...

oh Corey, i LOVE famous dave's, their st. louis ribs are best ever

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/02/burris-on-the-run.html#comment-201562

Champ's Friend.

First I don't pair bond , second, he's cute but geographically undesireable, and third, his dad is closer to my generation. :-)

it's after 5 and time for a bath. be gentle while i'm gone.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/02/burris-on-the-run.html#comment-201569

Craig

They don't call it separation of powers for nothin'

That may work with Republicans but I can't think of anything that would get the Senate more balky then for the president to issue an ultimatum.

Remember, we don't have a parliamentary system and each senator is a power unto himself.

And the Democrats need his vote

Jack

"Boner and McConnell - today's big losers."

pogo, that huffington article re showing how pundits are at odds with polls are a manifestation of the hedgehog/fox argument made in newsweek article.

"Bold, decisive assertions make better sound bites; bombast, swagger and certainty make for better TV. As a result, the marketplace of ideas does not punish poor punditry."

Hey, Craig, I don't disagree with that - I'm just talking about Burris - he stared Harry Reid down, making him look like a fool (OK, not such a big deal) has already erected a monument to himself, and hasn't shown any sign of recognition that he might have done anything wrong - despite at least some appearances to the contrary. No, the Dems shouldn't protect and support him - although I'm trying to envision an IL Rep. Senator. I suppose one of the 6 IL reps would make a run at it, but I'm guessing that the IL state party apparatus would likely try and run a strong candidate against him.

Well, I gotta run along. You all keep it between the lines.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/19/washington/19diplo.html?_r=1&nl=pol&emc=pola1

"Clinton Praises Indonesian Democracy"

"Still, Indonesia is in many ways a good-news story — and never more so than now. At the airport in Jakarta, Mrs. Clinton was serenaded by children from the Besuki school, which Mr. Obama attended as a fourth-grader in 1970. She seemed tickled and swayed in unison with the children.
“I’ve already been asked, over and over again, ‘when is he coming?’” Mrs. Clinton said, with mock exasperation. She suggested that Mr. Obama save the visit for a time when his job was really getting to him and he needed a morale boost."

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/02/burris-on-the-run.html#comment-201582

patd

And Matthews gave a sterling example of it at the top of his show today .... Total bombast complete with slurred speechifying and spittle ... Obama is undecided, you agree with me don't you, you see it the way I do. Though the guest didn't say it, Matthews then wrapped up with, so we agree Obama is undecided.

I wanted to slap him silly. A totally useless display just for ratings. The rest of the show was conversational and rational, so I know well he is capable of better which means it has to be vanity and audience.

If I were trapped on an Andes peak with nothing else to eat but rush, o'reilly, savage, coulter, mreagan, morris, and Matthews, I'd save Matthews for last.

Morris seems to make erroneous predictions every few minutes, and yet he's a fox ...uh, weasel, actually. That must be because he isn't actually selling anything but adverts.

Robert Gibbs was asked for a comment on the President's reaction to the Burris revelations on Air Force One flight from Phoenix to DC. late today.

Little support in the answer.

"The White House weighs in on Burris Imbroglio"

http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/02/18/the-white-house-weighs-in-on-burris-imbroglio/

dang i've so enjoyed the threads this week. thanks to all who've helped make this such a pleasant place to be.

Just heard it on the local news that Roy Blunt is going to run for Kit Bond's senate seat. He'll be a tough one to beat here in Missouri. Don't care for Kit Bond, but he isn't as sleazy as Roy Blunt is.

Craig,

My thanks to you for allowing all of us to participate here & for your extraordinary patience as well.

Craig
Thanks again for all you do! I hope you watched your tivo 24 episode?Its really been different but good this season....

The Joy Of Blogging

http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=17441

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/18/christopher-hitchens-beat_n_168035.html

Somebody plowed Hitchens' corn for an opinion he expressed on a poster! Might ought to remember where he's at, and that he is mortal!

The server is overloaded right now due to being covered this evening on BBC America News, but anyone who wants to keep tabs on what people in their 20s are thinking and doing politically might want to check out http://www.scoop44.com

Interesting Jamie...

I know what the 20 years in my life are thinking....they are damn glad they are in college and not out there trying to get a job!

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/02/burris-on-the-run.html#comment-201587

XR

The Dickster will never run out of predictions since he isn't hampered by anything resembling truth, accuracy, probability or ethics.

speaking of rascals..........young rascals.........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UIfx1HKrr0

buddy emmons and jeanie c and a dobro not a pedal steel........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXFk1v_N_ok&feature=PlayList&p=0F963356F6A76CAC&playnext=1&index=67

Eric Holder is taking it in the neck - or the msm is trying to make a case for it. Honestly! The man just said that in the area of race Americans have been cowards, which should be given some credence. It's not just whites, it's all ethnic groups and races.

But the big cowards have been the movers and shakers - politicians and business people and the
blankety-blank media. Sorry, Craig.

I think the American people have been ready for a black president for years. The parties have been slow to pick up on this.

As for the entertainment media - give me a break. The fact that they finally caught on has been majorly responsible for advancements in racial and ethnic situations. They have come up with the nerve to show inter-racial love and marriage and business situations.

Commercials on tv have amazed me in the racial and ethnic mixes, but the rest of tv was slower.

Still, politicans have been cowards, and now the news shows are brimming with umbrage! Ron Christie actually said Holder's words were reprehensible!

I have a cold and now I am nauseated! I think I'll go to bed.

Oh, yeah - Hillary is a peach.

i thought ron christie was great with that "lightning striking again" song........

Bethy,
Great comments. Craig should let you write a guest thread...I always find what you write to have interesting points.

Hope you feel better.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/02/burris-on-the-run.html#comment-201592

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/02/burris-on-the-run.html#comment-201593

Coreen and Tony -- appreciate the kind words, and i thank you (and many others) for being such civil (and civilized) players in our little corner of the internets

At work last night, they said Chrysler was complaining about the uneven sewing of the leather armrests we use for their Jeep doors. I wondered to myself, "What company makes these armrests for us?" The label on the box said, "Made by Johnson Controls Mexico".

http://www.charleston.net/news/2009/feb/17/hall_fame_induct_conroy71958/

pat conroy, SC author........inducted into the SC hall of fame.........

also, another guy:

"Along with Conroy, an 18th century Catawba Nation chief will be inducted into the state Hall of Fame.

Arataswa Haigler in the early 1750s was recognized by the royal governors of South Carolina, North Carolina, Virginia and New York as the leader of the Catawba Nation and officially renamed King Hagler.

Hagler had a reputation as a peacekeeper with colonists and other tribes. His first official act in 1751 was to sign a temporary peace treaty with the Six Nations.

During the French and Indian war, the Catawbas sent a contingent of soldiers to fight with Col. George Washington. A smaller contingent of Catawbas later fought with Gen. John Forbes in Virginia.

Hagler negotiated the Treaty of Pine Tree Hill in July 1760. It ultimately provided a reservation on the border of North Carolina and South Carolina for the Catawba.

On Aug. 30, 1763, Hagler was ambushed and killed by enemy Shawnees on a road to the Catawba town. "

Was that surprising to you or unusual that they cared?

what max says is true......bush was often and mercilessly compared to chimpanzees.......that was before one went crazy and tore that lady's face off.......but still.......

www.bushorchimp.com

"bush was often and mercilessly compared to chimpanzees"

sure but was Bush ever shown in comics assassinated?

Despite my many objections to BushCo, I never vilified him. As Obama said, he always thought Bush was a decent guy and a good father. Today shows how many on the Left will play the attacks that will come.

I for one hate the personal stuff, but don't anybody think our Founding Fathers were spared the barbs. To his dying day Washington refused to speak to Jefferson because of the slanderous attack he made. Glad to see Obama won't support the Fairness Doctrine. He won't be able to throw bones the GOP way on foreign policy however. Too many experts and players to control. I can't wait until Huff supports Obama's push to win Afghanistan. I will love to see the kind words Common Dreams describes Patraeus.

Beyond the appearances, there is a confused and divided polity. No wonder immigration will wait as e-verify is allowed to run out of funding. Some times the status quo serves "change".

come to think of it.....wasn't there some kind of show which showed something like that.......british, I think......

No, Burrito, you just had many on the internet hoping something bad would happen to Bush, real bad. I went to a Democratic rally in NYC back in 2003 and I saw posters and effigies with Bush and Cheney being hung. This weekend a female comedian that appears on 24 stated that Republicans have a genetic defect. Why else would they be Republicans? Darwin gone mad. (There's a topic for you Craig) The meaness is fact as I experianced with Obamabots campaigning for Hillary. I guess you could go to the archives of a number of well known blogs and read the stuff yourself.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/02/burris-on-the-run.html#comment-201610

Max,

Keith Olbermann actually took up the "Chimp" issue. It's the Number 4 piece on the show's website

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/#29268498

So are you saying it is an appropriate comic for our times Max, because of the various hateful actions of others?

Well this is different. Mother Jones disagreeing with Al Sharpton over that Post Chimpanzee cartoon

http://www.motherjones.com/riff/2009/02/al-sharpton-is-wrong-about-monkey-cartoon

I always preferred Bush as post turtle, but at least that had a story behind it.

This week we've had a whole roasted pig in Denver, bird hunting by Rove and Fred Barnes, and now a dead chimp. Lots of dead animals associated with Republicans. With Democrats it seems it's usually at worst a very sunburned bald head above a white ponytail.

And this week, Darwin's birthday, and here we have " Darwin gone mad.". Lots of coincidence.

I am saying that after eight years of nasty attacks on GOP officials and leaders, to cry out over the NY Post cartoon is comical in itself. Bush never whined about the relentless attacks, nor did Cheney and others. He simply ducked the incoming shoe.

I suggest Democrats spend less time on specific satires and acknowledge their own supporter's vicious stabs. Do you think MoveOn owes Patraeus an apology? After all, so much Obama is riding on is in his hands. Do you think all the blighted remarks towards Hillary by Obama supporters should warrent apologies now that she is SEC of STATE?

I am sure Obama has thick skin, but pragmatic egoists do not like slurs and vilification. Ratings are very important. This is one reason why Obama was cool to media after his victory. What they build up they always try to destroy. With Reagan they gave up. With Clinton they were served up Monica.

Make no mistake, Rush is awful, He once had a Kennedy Death Watch. Still, this is America. Expect Democrats to play sensitive and ultimately roll out the race card. This time however, the GOP will have Steele in their counter punch.

All of what I have been saying on this thread is meant to emphasize our immediate need to bring about REAL BIPARTISANSHIP. That means a balanced and transparent debate with details and plotted consequences. Pelosi and Reid do not represent this dialogue. Obama did what Bush did after 9/11. He excluded the oppositon and decided for himself what "conservative" items he would put in his Stimulus Bill. Were it not for Republicans screaming, the Bill would have been protectionist and deserve foreign outrage. Obama heard the loudest shouts and then consulted with himself...lol. Let's see if he comes to his senses about the Bill to make Union voting public. Now how American is that?

We need real bipartanship. With Democrats claiming the new center is between Center/Left and Liberal, the necessary dialogue has not begun. Presently everything is about wishful thinking, imagined results and silence in the face of a growing storm. The underlying mantra is "we won". Gees, how clever.

Obama will have to do much better than that. And I wish him the courage to do so.

Oh. Darwin's 200th is this month. Although the Left defends Darwin, I wonder how many understand Evolutionary theory. Certainly gay marriage in mass would produce little differential reproduction. Mad Darwin is exactly what G suggested when she said Republicans have a genetic defect. Or does that gel with your understanding Don?

I support evolutionary theory and have engaged in blogs that advance science over creationism. But no one should be so arrogant to assume they understand theories without exploring them. Yes? And also, remember Darwin believed that while God had no role in evolutionary progress, he did leave the Omnipotent as the principle mover. Now compare that idea to Obama's dabbling in religion, or even Hillary's.

Maxtrue,
While i agree with you on the cartoon and thick skin, I'll disagree with you on what Obama did on the bill. What he did was give Congress a mission and let them create the bill. It was up to Congress to get together and work on a bill.

This is like his belief on stem cell research. He's a strong believer in the tri-cameral system and each should do its own part.

If Republicans want to participate, as the minority party they need to start working with Democrats, not the other way around. You can see from the recent Gallup poll that just whining and hand wringing isn't working.

"I am saying that after eight years of nasty attacks on GOP officials and leaders, to cry out over the NY Post cartoon is comical in itself."

Not an answer to my question, but I can see your point is something important for you to express.

During his speech today Obama used the word "CRISIS" 25 times!!!

enjoy your evenings......
~peace

Actually, I think homosexuality has a strong role in evolution and is an important part of nature. I think you'll find the rates of homosexuality go up whenever there's a build-up in population, probably induced by pheromones or other air borne hormones.

Small tribes would have depended on a high birth rate both for survival and dominance through population. But now that we have the birth control pill the whole issue is mute and we're finding widespread acceptance of the GBLT lifestyle. We'll never have a high enough rate to be any threat to the population, especially if what I think is the activator is.

I think creation and evolution are apples and oranges. I see no problem in God as farmer watching the species grow and change, with a nudge here and there. But creation is religion and evolution science.

And finally, unless you believe in 6 real days of creation (which I don't) then there was death before Adam and Eve, making the Garden a story and not an actual event.

Evening.

I agree with Mother Jones, dumb cartoon but wasn't meant to be racist just a poor connection between two current news stories. I feel the most sorry for the poor chimp. That was a horrible tragedy.

I have been reading articles on the rules of who will get help with their mortgages. It is like reading the income tax booklet you get every year, confusing. I couldn't really figure out how anyone who needs help would qualify to get it. Maybe it is just another way to give the banks a few more dollars.

The only people I feel comfortable helping are those people who bought within their means but through no fault of their own lost their jobs because of the economic crisis. It would be nice if those people could get some kind of assistance for a limited period until they could find another job.

Don, Pelosi and Reid "working with Republicans"? Now that is funny. By most objective measures, the GOP was shut out. Obama threw in tax cuts to humor them and then let open the doors to the Democrats. Perhaps you confuse the opposition with some moderate Democrats who were prepared to tip the balance. Congress can't even track the last trillion and they laughed when Republicans demanded they do so.

Buritto, I would have not drawn that cartoon. I would not likely work for the NY Post. That doesn't make the cartoon "wrong" relative to American political Satire. Check out the Father of Political Cartoons and see how nice he was...lol

I hope that answered you, but my other comments were revelent to the question you asked. And imagine instead the Post had a cartoon of Mohammad,,,,,,,

Well all hell would have broken loose. Hillary might be in danger as we speak. Freedom of Speech is our right as people. Craig has never answered that question if he supports Pelosi's version of the new Press Rights. That is why the Fairness Doctrine doesn't work and why Mohammad is free game as much as Jesus or Abraham are.

sorry to dwell on this point, but just want to note and appreciate the exchange above between maxtrue and don1one as an example -- and there were others today -- of respectful, yet passionate, debate and disagreement that isn't disagreeable. it gives me hope that we have a place here on the internets for real dialogue that isn't one-sided or narrow-minded, while also not descending into a mindless exchange of petty and personal insults. we'll have bad days ahead, i'm sure, but on balance there is reason to believe that the best in us is actually possible.

oh, and by the way, thanks to the last few days of peaceful blogging, my St. Johns River fish camp plans are on hold -- although it remains on my list of things to do someday

Don, show me how the immaterial "nudges" the material. Intelligent Design poeple have been trying for years to even think of an experiment that could test such irrationality. Your hormone theory isn't borne out by empirical facts. If that were true estrongenic factors floating around would have had a much larger impact on what appears to be a rather constant percentage of homosexuals to strights. You are suggesting homsexuality is a population limiter. Not borne out. A more likely theory is that traits associated with gayness are important to the survival of the group. Darwin didn't go into that very much. He felt the individual was largely the object of selection, not the group. Gayness has to increase group fitness or it would eventually drift out of the gene pool.

In times of great stress, who cares about gays? Turing played a huge role in helping to defeat the Nazis. There is a plausible rumor Lincoln was gay. And I bet some of those 200 were gay. Stress may effect the degree genetic predispositons are expressed.

I would not argue that the world has suddenly lost the need to reproduce there fore the sanctity of herosexual marriage is null and void. If that is the argument, no wonder why Republicans have some traction left.....

I grant that to the degree homosexuality has a post birth environmental factor, you might have a point.

Thanks Craig,
You have a great place here and I've never felt so comfortable so quick. Kudos to you and all I've chatted with.
I had a wise pastor that said what matters is our similarities, not our differences. Sometimes I think we focus too much on what we fight about rather than what we share.

Interesting piece on Clinton's China visit/US & China relations:

http://tinyurl.com/dzgyxs

" I see no problem in God as farmer watching the species grow and change, with a nudge here and there."

I like that Don. When I really observe life and all it's beauty and perfection, it is hard to think of evolution alone being responsible. Look at a pansy, a rose, a new born baby and all of the other beautiful things in life and you got to see that there has to be something more involved. At least IMHO.

Don1 -- Although I no longer know what I believe about anything, your post about the 6 day creation/evolution is interesting. I still remember when I was in school and asked my mother about that....she just shrugged and said, "Well, the bible also says a day with God is as a thousand years. Why might it not be ten thousand, or fifty thousand."

She was a "believer" but one who didn't take the bible literally.

don1one, i'm thrilled to have you on board. there's a lot of ancient history around here. most of it really good, but some of it not. and we all appreciate a fresh voice to ponder.

A fish bucket list Craig?

look at patsi with the tinyurl. you go girl.

If I could show you how immaterial nudges material, it wouldn't be faith, would it? Abram had angels visit him, do you believe that happens today?

It's not that reproduction is unimportant, but now we have the ability to control reproduction as we want. And since we've left farming and a mobile society, population growth of any one group isn't as important.

We don't know that much about homosexuality, so i don't think we can say anything about environmental factors. And people willing to admit that they are gay is still understated.

Jesus talked about those born eunuchs who could do much my devoting themselves, why are you so sure he wasn't referring to gays who would not normally have families?

I've seen it reported many times that groups of women tend to have the same cycle. Which would completely rule out polygamy for me. :^)

I'll try Craig. The problem with me is that when I did drop in to chat I was met with immediate fire. Or I observed some outrageous comment I have to respond to. I did and do appreciate the smarts that exist here in your posters. Some I never have a problem arguing with like Lard.

As I have remarked at other blogs, informed debate must begin with civility. Obama has got that right. Now civility is not bipartanship, but without it, we are all just victims of the endless cycle of who is on top and who is on the bottom. I spent some time at American Thinker battling many a post. Their thread comments often look like zombies on lithium, but some were very smart and engaged in debate.

I wish we all could question most everything we think is true. NO Party line, no ideological givens. After all, we are an experiment in Individual Rights and Individual responsibilities. Truth is not a Party memeber.

Wow, UB - what a nice thing to say! I wasn't sure how my comment would be taken, but I've often thought politicians were afraid to stir up a controversy with a racial stand even though they might not have been racist. They were waiting for some sign that the public was mature enough.

By the way, I really think that cartoon was way out of line. Actually, it was breath-takingly racist.

It's true that Bush was often compared to chimps and Hitler...but then Bush isn't black and monkeys have never been used as a racial epithet for his race.
Further, Hitler was a right-winger. There were some connections, however nebulous.

And, the chimp in the cartoon wore no necklace a la Pelosi, had no sign around its neck - nothing to show the chimp resembled anyone else but a body with dark skin - and Ron Christie finds Holder's remark reprehensible.

Ron Christie is out of his league on the national level, isn't he?

oops, I meant 300 as in the movie....lol

And thanks Craig....

I'm a fan of yours from your cable show appearances Craig. But who knew you had a place like this?

That is a Colorado fish camp isn't it? Nothing like Rocky Mountain natives over a campfire.

People didn't start thinking literal (or virtual to the pedantics) until the Greeks. We make a lot of mistakes trying to take the Old Testament as literal. I have a Zondervan study bible that is good at pointing out the difference.

A friend says the Bible is truth, not facts. I think it engages an challenges us, but too many people just take a few parts with the understanding they are told to believe. But I don't believe it's the only path. We too often try to limit God.

Cool. Max. i never tire of quoting Ben Franklin's words in finally breaking the deadlock at the Constitutional Convention: "Let us all doubt our infallibility." It's a phrase that literally helped create our nation, and one worth governing this blog.

(Of course, BF also made his own wine for the delegates, so that probably helped too.)

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/02/burris-on-the-run.html#comment-201645

altho a fan of Colorado, don, i'm planning to retire on the St. Johns in Florida -- which flows north, like the Nile

Nice Craig,
I gather you'll never have to sleep with your boots in your sleeping bag or wake up with a frostbit nose. :^)

Hard to imagine you ever retiring though. Too much youthful energy.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/02/burris-on-the-run.html#comment-201649

oh no, don, as soon as this recession ends and my retirement stocks rebound, i am out of here

Oh, so you'll be here for a while Craig. Good, well, for us.
I never felt good about the DOW over 8,000. I think we'll form a bottom here and work up at normal rates. Until the baby boomers really start selling stock. I wonder if Bush didn't want to privatize SS to bolster the stock market. Just like naturalizing illegal would bolster the population drop contributing to social security.

if Obama can fix this economy, here's where i'll be in a few years.. http://tinyurl.com/atkhma

Good quote Craig. Franklin and I share birthdays.

You have tried to toe the line between ideological sides. I respect that. You also believe in Free Speech and are never carried away with vague promises or moral certitudes. Both are always suspect.

Craig, don't kid yourself. You could be there now.....

Sorry Max, I thought you were describing the opposite. We think the mind is physical because that is our perception. Who knows what's really happening.

Saying God can't act on the physical is like saying God can't create a rock so big she can't throw it (did you know that there are both male and female names for God in the Old Testament). String and quantum physics would imply the physical acts much as we believe it should act.

Personally, I think the universe is a concept of God. God is said to be outside of time. God is. But time and physical space is what we need to grow and change. So God invented us, as real, the likeness of God, but surrounded us with the concept of time and space to allow us to chase our potential.

I know a nice apartment complex in South Tampa where you can get a place less than 30' from the water. $600 a month when I left. I used to walk out and jump in the water for a morning swim.

Lots of fishing there too. First I knew of catfish in saltwater. Porpoises tend to chase fish up towards shore.

quantum physics, don? dang, you do have something to add here

Don - I forgot to say welcome to you, so I do now. You seem to have a calm approach to your posts - wonderful

"Craig, don't kid yourself. You could be there now.....-- Posted by: Maxtrue"

ha, it's in my mind's eye all the time, max

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/02/burris-on-the-run.html#comment-201629

Max,

"Working With" and letting the really spoiled baby "have it's way about everything" are not the same thing. The Republicans are just kicking and screaming because they only got 40% of what they wanted instead of 100% the way they used to before November.

"look at patsi with the tinyurl. you go girl."

Hey, I've been paying attention....

ok, time to do the Waltons thing -- good nite don, max, bethy, edvb, ct, patsi and all you silent lurkers out there

and jamie

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/02/burris-on-the-run.html#comment-201659

EdvB

Probably just a case of great minds traveling the same deeply rutted road named Nothing New Under The Sun. I've traveled that way often myself. :-)

Thank you bethyboo. Life's too short to go through it angry. If I ever seem testy, I'm mad at me, not other people.

Craig.

Just curious, how much do you need to be in Washington to do your job? i work on web sites, so more and more of my job can be done anywhere with occasional meetings in person..I have web sites in Michigan, California, somewhere in South Carolina, Greensboro and Wilmington NC.

I'm sure you have to meet people, as well as go out to publicize your material, but i would think you could start spending more time in Florida and less time locally thanks to the internet and virtuality. You're certainly an important personality but doesn't that also give you some freedom?

Max,

If you are really interested in the subject, there is a documentary on You Tube: Jonh Barrowman, The Making of Me that starts here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m27Awmlgi38

John is the star of the British show Torchwood as well as being a star of stage musicals and a wonderful singer. He also happens to be gay and this documentary is him going through all of the known theories and tests currently proposed. It is actually very entertaining as well as informative because of his great sense of humor.

don't rat me out, don. i spend more time in florida than i let on

wow Craig, I understand quantum physics but I'm totally lost on Lost.

Don1One and anyone else actually considering string theory :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vY_Ry8J_jdw

Good night, John boy

woo hoo, from the Dr., so it has to be true.

They don't call him the last of the Time Lords for nothing.

NEW THREAD at 6 AM EST

XR - I agree with you on something and can't remember what it is! It took so long to get here that it has totally slipped my mind. The one sure symptom I have for illness is that I become even stupider than usual - really. When I'm talking and have this head cold, I find it hard to complete sentences - my family enjoys it.

Pogo - you scared me when you mentioned seeing cardinals earlier than usual. All my years in St Louis I thought that redbird I saw flying to my bird feeder was a cardinal, and now it wasn't so I'd have to find out anew what it was. The sight of that bright red against the snow - WOW.

Ed - I understand your comment about the cartoon and Rev Al ( who is one of my favorites to watch, I admit) but I do not agree at all that he dug up old insults. The insults are still in use all over the country and by some pretty "nice" people. You can bet that every klan member hooped and hollered at the cartoon, along with aryan brotherhood and the like, and even some who just flat don't like black people. That cartoon will be on more refrigerator doors than you'd like to believe.

Old insults? They need to be more than 100 years old for them to lose their sting, and some never will. I'll bet we all know the names Archie Bunker used and to whom they referred - they're not old. A cartoon with a big nose - who could that be?????

I'm curious why the cartoonist chose that particular tragic news story to turn into social commentary. It was not in the least funny, and a woman is still in critical condition, with her friend probably still in shock.
She thought her pet had killed her friend.

He might just as well have tried to crack a joke about the plane crash in Buffalo.

Do you really not know people who would make the quick connection between a chimp, a dark body, and a comment re the stimulous bill? If you don't, you're very lucky.

I might not have made the connection, but I think it was intended and it did its job - it sold a lot of trashy papers and advertised the buffoon who drew it.

Where's congressman Bobby Rush now? I haven't heard him make any lynching comments in defense of Roland Burris lately. Even if Burris were to be found to have acted improperly, I doubt Rush would ever be man enough (as he was back in his Black Panther days) to say he was wrong in backing Burris. He'd probably use some sort of dated race-bating vitriol to justify his holier-than-thou position.

XR - I remembered what you said that I like (altho I almos always agree with you.) It was your comment re pork. Unless it can be proved to be ridiculous, like the bridge to nowhere etc, the members of congress are there to represent thier people.

Craig, I agree that Obama could put an end to the Burris thing and preserve the Dem seat for the next election. A clean start would be a good idea.

Glad y'all got your tiny url's in order. Be aware that because Tinyurl.com can take any link and change it into a tinyurl link for the purpose of shortening it, it can take you anywhere. Therefore, your tiny url poster needs to be a reliable one who's not sending you to an, uh, unsavory site as ya don't know where it's taking you even if you mouse over it and check the bottom bar.

tt

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