Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/01/washington-has-a-need-for-spee.html#comment-188131

ok, Patsi, i get it, but u know how i get when i see all of that nasty arguing. goes with the turf tho, i guess. carry on.

It was boring talking about Palin all night, tho.

Some Saturday morning music -
White Bird - It's a beautiful day
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmb69MdeJBc

I need to be doing some other stuff, anyway...sooooo. No problem. :)

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/01/loose-change.html#comment-188185

Colorado Bob,

I attended a one day outdoor concert in Austin about 1971 or so. It was held on the campus of UT in the baseball stadium. Go figure. It's A Beautiful Day, Pacific Gas and Electric and Leon Russell plus a few other bands I don't remember. Mighta been passed out for them. It was a good day.

Dooty,
I remember some concerts like that in the 70s. A haze of contentment for me they were.

Good morning all-
Congrats to Craig! Not surprised that despite winning the popular vote, Olbermann was somehow able to rationalize another victor.

Craig, Judging reading from most reading everyones' holiday posts it seems that all Clinton supporters are making an effort to support the upcoming administration. That being said, the sexism during the election was undeniable and still strikes a nerve with Clinton supporters and even non supporters of Palin. Sadly, one poster in particular lacks any sensitivity and sense of sportsmanship. Yesterdays attempt to marginalize the impact of the c word is a fine example. Unfortunately I would expect the discussion to remain insufferably boring until the time that he refrains from gloating, goading and putting forth misogynistic comments.

I did not cheat on the vote, love Craig, but wouldn't empty my cookies for him. Aside from not being a cheater, I'd lose too many valuable websites.

Jamie- I hope you are high and dry!

Ct- Great questions, didn't know about the mercury nor the higher use of electricity on the new tv's.

Cbob- Is it true that the new TVs use much more energy than the old ones and if so, how could this have possibly happened?

CBob,
I was humming White Bird a couple of days ago. I don't know why. I hadn't thought about that song in a long time. I was in the record business in the 70s managing store for a Mom and Pop chain. I remember people looking all over for that song on an album. The band had broken up and the album/song was tied up in court if I remember correctly.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/01/washington-has-a-need-for-spee.html#comment-188183

CBob,

Claim fair use and include links to John Ford, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valence and Dorothy Johnson who wrote the original story. They get the money and you keep your well earned glory.

5 Somali pirates drown with ransom share:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090110/ap_on_bi_ge/piracy

By the way CBob you have some Shinbone competition and he seems to be as upset by those who destroy the environment as you are.

His pages aren't as attractive

http://ralstonstar.blogspot.com/

Pirate news -

5 Somali Pirates Drown With Ransom Share

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=6617246
--------------
So there's ........... 3 Million bucks floating in the ocean ?

Hmmm just read some of the ralston star edition of the Shinbone Star. Politically he is more to the right side of the spectrum with a few things some might find unpleasant.

Considering that the money was attached to a parachute, you would think someone would have made an attempt to retrieve it before it sunk. If not,
does anyone have scuba gear and a round trip ticket?

Zoey,

not sure what the Haze of contentment is but there was a haze in the air for sure. Probably due to that stuff that causes "illegal smiles and the munchies." :)

"A haze of contentment for me they were.", said by Zoey.

Dooty -
I had a few swirling afternoons in the Austin park system myself.
I bought 3 of their songs the other day. I got one up on U-Tube -

Wasted Union Blues - It's a Beautiful Day
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKxexSSszS4
( Great cowbell in this one)

I'll see if I can get the other 2 up-
Time Is
Bombay Calling

My bad, I made a little bo bo on plasma TV energy usage. It is 300% not 300 times. Sorry, hope you didn't throw out the plasma yet.

Craig,

Do you get the questions from Keith ahead of time or do you have to think and answer on the spot??

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/01/loose-change.html#comment-188208

Solar - I think we agree - like on 24 - the bad guy knows where the bomb is.... do what ever to save the innocent from torture - ......

How BHO defines Torture? does this become a like story to how Bill Clinton defines Sex?

Solar,

Re: death penalty. Living in a tiny cell 24/7 except for a hour a day if security has the time, would be more punishment to me than death. Also it is more expensive, with all the appeals, to put someone to death than to keep them for life. At least that is what I have read many times.

Neither seem to be a deterrent.

like oldsea, i wasn't about to toss my cookies just to get to vote more than the requisite two, the primary and run-off voting. however, since multi-voting was suggested by uberblog's treaty to "vote often" if you could outsmart the cookie monster, it was imo neither a sin nor rule violation to do so but a challenge to tm's techiness to be met. therefore, those who feel vilified by some of our e-comrades here should not take their rath personally.

rath = wrath

Hey Solar,

She hasn't arrived yet. It's probably going to be another week (or slightly more). You know I'll be bragging once she enters the world.. Thanks for asking.

One of these days I'm going to post a picture of Cheyenne for you to see too. :) She's such a part of the family. :)

Craig,

Love your description of idealism vs. pragmatism, 'what's right works' vs. 'what works is right'. Seems that the way you described Obama balancing it all may be his best road toward success, his most important characteristic. I'm glad to see that he's a realist as well as a dreamer.

I always think that the answer is somewhere in between the two extremes in all matters.

Will someone please produce an example of the so called 24 scenario ?

The torture to save lives from a pending attack ? I find this argument based more in fiction, than real world scenarios. I mean, given the nature of the threat, all pows should be tortured. After all, it'll save lives.

Has anyone in the real world ever know of a bomb about to go off, and they just happen to have Amed in jail, and he's got all the answers ?

Pat, You can cancel one cookie or a few and not all of them. You can pick and choose.

"-in the case of rape----go to jail---the second time ---castration"

For child molesters, what's wrong with voluntary castration? I seem to remember reading about a case where the state wouldn't let them even do that, even though the offender was willing because he thought he would commit future crimes without it.

Chloe---thought that you said maybe a little sooner,,,,full term is better I guess. I use Cheyenne as a tool to get a message to you,,,but a picture would be nice if you want to saddle her up and get on her.....I have a meeting (if they don't cancel again) with the trustees of the Town that we are going to build houses that I told you about,,,,they are supposes to sign contracts---if they do, we will get a lot of lots to build on---someone is bringing a digital camera along( mine broke--by a jug head that rolled over it, ME --on a machine) and will take pictures I will post it or go over to TM's Facebook---but only if you do :-)))

Strike that,, a picture of you on, or near my hoss would do just fine.

Oh, so it's all about the money. ok. But the state and it's people are the one's that would benefit. Start a donation fund. I'll be the first to donate.

"-thought that you said maybe a little sooner,"

Ha, I think that may have been wishful thinking on my part.

Solar, congratulations on getting the go on that project! When do you start?

"it's about The Constitution. "

Yeah, it's always about someones interpretation of the constitution. No one seems to mind amendments when it suits their needs though.

chloe, thanks for the info. my comment was an attempt to assauge or absolve the guilty feelings of those who may have voted more than once in each level and felt they were being morally castigated for their excessive exuberance of loyalty, competition and pundit pride.

I personally believe true child molesters are so twisted that they aren't affected by deterrent. Certainly the cost of castration would cost the taxpayers less than further jail time, court costs and the cost of the effect on their victims lives.

Yes Sea, I agree!

assauge = assuage

Thanks patd. But you know, there were only a select few that made that accusation. Even Craig seemed to assume someone did something wrong here, at least at first. And I'm afraid that's what passed the idea on to Olbermann. It's no more likely anyone from this site cheated than it is that someone(s) from the other sites cheated too. I still think the baloney did the trick!

"Well, we are officially living in the United States of Bizarroland. In a year in which we should by all rights be inaugurating our first woman president, Ms. magazine, which used to be the go-to mag for all things feminist, has turned into a fawning teen rag ala Tiger Beat. With an inaugural issue featuring Barack Obama as the feminist Superman (oh, the irony), Ms. has officially lost any clout as the magazine for thinking feminists. ... Now women who call themselves feminists can’t even see the irony in honoring the male candidate that beat the woman candidate for president through blatant voter fraud and massive sexism.

... a junior senator with little experience and hardly any real accomplishments to his name sailed through to the presidency thanks to a fawning media, when by all rights he should have been Hillary’s VP."

http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/01/10/action-alert-ms-magazine-boycott/

You're the one that said they could do it on their own dime. Not me. So get off your righteous grandstand for a while. I'll think what I think, and you'll continue to think the same way you always think. So what.

Chloe

It is starting to look very good---I did not make the past cpl of meetings,,,cos I wanted to see how far they would take the talking (bs) part of it---it looks like they are serious about it now---I will make the next one,,,,and it looks like a contract signing one at that---but once again ---not counting my turkey's ( I like turkeys better,,cos that is what some of these people look like sometimes) before they are hatched ,,,but if they do ---then it will be time to start the paper work for the $---and that is another wait and see moment for me----but that has been told to me ---no problema?? the buyers are same---they have to have a job,,,so you see it will be a work in progress.,,,but planning goes well,,,work for a very very long time---that is why I haven't given up on it.

I get it just fine, and I still don't agree with you.

So sue me. Or better yet, send over Big Brother and have me arrested. Just make sure you don't torture me.

Send in the clowns. No wait! There already here.

Tony

Not fair----not fair---not fair ---I have to go and shovel the snow for the 2nd time today---and looks like a 3rd time later----while you talk of a hard day a t the beach,,and ---oh never mind----be back in half an hour,

Regarding torture...

I just wish Chris Matthews and other folks debating the issue on TV would ditch any reference to the Geneva Conventions, as if that code represents some high, argument-ending, moral absolute. It doesn't.

And to base the debate on whether the conventions technically would apply to this rogue nation or that terrorist combatant is just pointless.

All that the GC represents is the idea of a bunch of 19th Century Europeans to create rules allowing them to go on waging war in a "civilized" fashion with other "civilized" nations. How about this concept instead? As in: Supposedly civilized nations shouldn't be waging war against one another the way they did in the 19th and 20th centuries.

And as far as uncivilized nations (ie., Imperial Japan) and/or terrorist groups (ie., al Qaeda) go, what relevance would a "gentlemen's agreement" for waging war ever have to them?

That's why I think the whole notion of the GC is quaint and outdated.

Anybody with me on this one, or am I simply insane?

"the buyers are same---they have to have a job,,"

Solar, It's sounding good.

I've always thought if an agreement benefits everyone involved, then it is a good agreement. Good luck.

Well boys and girls-
I just got some great container prices FOB Long Beach.

And it's from the company that had the best side by side test results at the Univ. of Fla.
Sunda Solar -

http://www.sundasolar.com/product_index.html

-------------------
A 16 tube unit after the fed tax credit is $1200 at Long Beach.

I have been working in corrections medicine for 9 years now and it is interesting, but sad, that most of the guys who come in with child molestion charges are middle class, middle aged or older, white men.

What is also interesting is that most of them are also taking medications for hypertension or cardiovascular disorders. I have wondered if there could be a cerebral vascular cause or could it even be medication related?

There is also many of same coming in with computer solicition of minors. Most are not men you would expect to see in jail. I just can't see why these guys, usually smart, wouldn't realize that it isn't likely that a young 13 year old girl would be looking for sex with an older man. It is a cop looking for a perv to bust.

here's a problem our various govts shall have to face one of these days: at what point should the state step in limiting an individual's activities (driving, voting, contracting, working in sensitive or public safety areas, etc.) at the onset of ahlzeimers or in the incipient stage of same?

and what advantages will insurance companies be prohibited from taking upon learning of an early stage diagnosis? interesting problems to mull over given the growing numbers of victims.

Lard, you're simply insane. (When it comes to that issue.)

$1500 at Long Beach, ......... this co-op idea just got a lot better.
35 of these per 20 ft. container.

Hey Sturg -
Got room to land 40ft. containers from China ?

"at what point should the state step in limiting an individual's activities (driving, voting, contracting, working in sensitive or public safety areas, etc.) at the onset of ahlzeimers or in the incipient stage of same?"

Pat, That is tricky. And unbelievably controversial to even think about enforcing. But you're right, at least on the public safety/driving part of it.

Patd, Are you an attorney?

Damn, Flatus, I knew I shouldn't have offered multiple choice.

Pat, I hope you don't mind my asking that.
It's just sometimes you sound so savvy on things legal. I've wondered about it in the past.

Practically speaking, most people with creeping dementia self-limit their driving exposure. They finally stop driving completely after the rattling experience of their first low-speed accident--often a single car accident.

I believe public policy should be to help old-old people to continue to drive as long as possible. This can be done, as has been shown in some of areas of Florida, by having local thoroughfares designed with old people in mind. Great big traffic signals, very large high-contrast print on illuminated street signs, clearly marked cross walks with safety islands for pedestrians.

People should continue to vote so long as they are physically able.

Contracting is difficult. When someone is obviously being taken advantage of, elder abuse statutes can be brought into play. Concerned family members and neighbors have to be the whistle blowers.

Work--it is usually quite apparent that an individual is struggling. Out of fear of potential liability, the employer takes remedial action.

On a per population basis, drivers under the age of 25 had the highest rate of involvement in fatal crashes of any age group.

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd-30/NCSA/TSF2002/2002ovrfacts.pdf

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/01/loose-change.html#comment-188243

Lardo, Sorta kinda maybe a little bit. I agree to the point where you point out that war by its nature is not "civilized" and "civilized" nations shouldn't be doing it to each other or to anyone else where avoidable.

Where we part ways is that while I don't think the GC would have any standing with terrorist types, it does have standing with me. I don't want my country to be a nation that violates it. I find the whole idea that America has imprisoned without charge or trial, tortured, or exercised rendition to countries where people could be tortured absolutely nauseating.

Because I know we are in violation of the GC and may well have committed war crimes I am less proud to be called an American.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/01/loose-change.html#comment-188253

As much of an aggravation it would be for me, I see nothing wrong with a state requiring driving tests every two years for those 65 and older. Since I have to do a smog check that often I could just dedicate a day to legalizing both the car and me.

I'll just have to remember that not to let lead foot Lucy come out to play when the tester is in the car.

Rez -

The 16 tube set-up runs a family of 4.

I just posted a thread at Kos on this :

A National Solar Co-Op Hotlist
by colorado bob 1 [Subscribe] [Edit Diary]
Sat Jan 10, 2009 at 02:09:20 PM PST

I think we're all so focused on making electricity , we over looked the revolution that evacuated tube collectors quietly became.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/1/10/17920/8484/195/682206

There is this interesting program "Torture, we have our ways", on LINK on satelitte.

This guy named Garcia from Uruguay learned all his torture techniques at the US Army School of the Americas located in Panama Canal, where it's activities weren't subject to US law.

Flatus, you ever heard of that place?

ct...

Regarding "School of the Americas" torture school

The Baltimore Sun did a great series exposing the practices of that place in the early 1990s.

"When peace comes we will perhaps in time be able to forgive the Arabs for killing our sons, but it will be harder for us to forgive them for having forced us to kill their sons."

What a bullshit quote. It's totally disingenuous. It is crafted to sound noble, but makes no real-world sense. Show me a person in real life who would rather have their own child killed than defending their child by killing another. It's a rhetorical trick intended to put the speaker in the position of the weary parent and the enemy in the position of the recalcitrant child, as in "This is going to hurt me more than it's going to hurt you."

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/01/loose-change.html#comment-188276

Lard:

Are you claiming she didn't say it?

I think it's profound. It speaks to the "Hobson's Choice" that is Israel's position in the Middle East. Israel must constantly defend itself against the indefensible...a choice that is no choice.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/01/loose-change.html#comment-188276

Lardo,

Maybe we are reading this one different because I totally understand what Mrs. Meir meant. I could forgive someone murdering a member of my family. They wouldn't become a near and dear friend, but I could forgive and move on.

An attack on me or mine that forced me to defend my home and behave in a way totally foreign to both my nature or beliefs would be much harder because I would have trouble forgiving myself and until I could do that I wouldn't be able to forgive them.

Lard - I can't/won't argue the point with you. I don't know enough about the GC but I have to basically agree with points you made.

I'm not sure castration would help any of the sex crimes. It might stop an erection but there is more to sex crimes than erections - if someone can look at a sweet little critter and see sexiness, that means there is a hard-wiring problem.

If we ever learn how to fix hard-wiring problems, there will still be victims. I think we have to put sex crimes at the top of the list and increase penalties dramatically.

As for imprisonment, it keeps society safe, but prisons are also factories creating sociopaths - I saw a shrink's evaluation of Pelican Bay inmates, and he agreed with me. We need to re-configure our prison systems.

There are plenty of societal woes without having to worry about pacifying anyone's injured feelings re god.
I wish we would get serious about the serious stuff.

Numbers from last night was wonderful. That show obviously has people who just have to think and wonder.

Uh er ah um we are going to have to um er ah pull together or um ah er something like that LOL!

http://bellalu0.wordpress.com/2009/01/10/obama-says-forget-those-campaign-promises-think-burdens-and-heavy-lifting/

"It might stop an erection but there is more to sex crimes than erections"

I agree Bethy, but it also affects hormones which affect the sex drive. For instance, when I have one of my male cats neutered, they lose their desire to have sex. There's no sexual activity anymore.

Ivy...I definitely believe she said it. But I also believe she was a politician.

And Jamie...I don't believe you would really feel that way if confronted with the situation outside the realm of abstraction. The emotion you describe is unnatural and not human. We are, after all, animals who have instincts. And "kill or be killed" is a very strong one. I just think it's disingenuous to gussy it up as anything else.

Whoa - Lard - I hadn't read your comment about Meir - I was agreeing with your comment on the GC.

I understand what Meir meant by her comment if she did make it. I can't say I would feel as she says she would, but I can believe her. People who are more into their religions could easily feel that way. My religion isn't so codified - it is based on the golden rule, and it covers me as well as others.

There are plent of hard decisions to make, and people don't want to have to make any. Look at what's happening now because parents simply can't say no to their children when they are little, and then have have trouble when they try to say no when their kids are teenagers. It's called denial sometmes and procrastination, too.

"kill or be killed"

Lard, Isn't that self defense you're talking about. We are animals with animal instincts, but we also apply higher thinking to our decisions and reasoning.

I think what Jamie said makes perfect sense. Maybe not to everyone, but surely there are many others who think the same thing she is explaining.

Just to clarify:

For a moral being, I definitely think being forced into the position of having to kill someone else is something horrible and unforgivable.

But having your own loved one killed by another is worse and even more unforgivable.

To say otherwise is simply to strike a pose.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/01/loose-change.html#comment-188282

Well Lardo, all I can say is that I've done the first part and I really don't want to contemplate the second even though I know for a fact that I am absolutely capable of it and have come close a couple of times.

Chloe...

I would include protecting family members under the instinct of self-defense.

And to say "we apply higher thinking to our decisions and reasoning" is to create a circular argument. If higher thinking ruled, and if you knew that being forced to kill someone was somehow worse than losing a loved one, would "higher thinking" not dictate that you simply not kill?

"If higher thinking ruled, and if you knew that being forced to kill someone was somehow worse than losing a loved one, would "higher thinking" not dictate that you simply not kill?"

No Lard. I wouldn't have any problem killing someone to protect a loved one.

I'm going to go watch football now. See ya.

Chloe - I agrre about the sex drive, but I am saying molestation and rape are more than just sex drives. The sex drive is already messed up so castration would be questionable as a complete end to a sex drive in a dis-ordered system.

Someone told me about a scene in one of the VietNam movies - I think it was Deer Hunter. I have never seen any of them, on purpose, but this scene moved this person. I don't know it exactly, but a woman was caressing her husband and she asked if he could feel it. He told her no but he could see it.

Here in CA we won't forget an man named Kenneth Parnell. He spent many years in prison for kidnapping two little boys - not killing them - just keeping them for years. When he came out, he was old and kept getting in trouble. Finally he was confined to a wheel chair - he looked scrofulous, like the poorest beggar from a medieval scene - just horrible. He tried tto get a nurse to buy a little boy for $500 (not sure re amount). I think he died in prison, but don't remember that part - isn't that funny? The fact that he never stopped has stayed with me - I could have told them he wouldn't stop. I don't knowwhat happened to him afterward. I just know he's dead, and I'm very glad.

Self defense or even family defense say against an intruder is entirely different than an attack on one's country.

When everything around you is being attacked, it is not only a case of stopping it and perhaps killing whomever is the the immediate danger, but then putting a stop to the attacks themselves.

That is what is making the situation in Gaza so difficult. If Israel just stops then Iran will continue to supply Hamas with weapons and Hamas will continue to send those rockets into Israel. They will not stop.

So how do you bring enough force to bear from the other Arab countries such as Egypt and Saudi Arabia to force Hamas into stopping the attacks and convince Israel that the inspectors will prevent weapons from entering Gaza so that Israel will return to within its own borders?

That's is a depressing story Bethy. He was old, but I don't know if that means he still didn't have a sex drive. And hormones are what fuel the sex drive. Maybe there is more to it than that though. You may be right. I don't know.

Sorry to cause a dust up only two more post's to go----lots of history here ,,,from other perspectives --not necessarily mine,,,but some of the dates quotes from books outside of that part of the world are very interesting to me......Me I think that it is all about Religion,,,period.

Man Corey. That story was hard to read. It's unimaginable the horrible things that happen. Or I should probably say, it's unimaginable, the things that one human being can do to another.

Solar, keep up those posts.
I'll check back later.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/01/loose-change.html#comment-188281

Chloe, When you consider it's about "power" and not about "sex," you realize when they are deprived of one "weapon," they'll find and use another.

Neurology is making large strides now---in understanding the human mind- and will now be able answers many more questions than ever before,,,,but for right now ---Ill go with the we are animals ,,,aggressive, and greedy. and very very superstitious, as a whole (mankind) and prone to be taken in by a book that not too many people read----but is still the best seller ---there ever was----the Bible-----who wrote it ,,,and where is the proof that they wrote it???,,,manipulation of genes will take care of the criminal in the future?// meanwhile---you rape my daughter,,,and kill her ---I want you dead,,,I don't want some guard serving you food three times a day----when the offender is dead,, than I can rest,,,and let go of my loved one that was killed---than RIP is possible??

Speaking of all of this, there was a story in the Detroit Free Press this week that caused much debate. It talked about a 35 year-old woman who was recently released from prison. Aside from the main topic of the story, it discussed how she ended up in prison. She was 18-19 years-old and she agreed to give to friends a ride to a place where they had arranged a drug deal. The guys told her to drop them off and then wait in the car a block away. A short time later she heard gunshots. The guys ran to her car and told her to drive away fast. The drug deal went bad and they had shot 2 men. It turned out that one of the men died and the other was paralyzed from the neck down. The 2 men who did the shooting got life in prison. She was sentenced to 16 years in prison for being an accomplice. She said she didn't know the men had guns with them. The kicker was that the "victims", the guys who were gonna buy the weed and the "shooters" the guys who were selling the weed both had the same idea. The guys buying the weed had planned to rob the guys who were selling the weed, so they brought a gun with them. The guys selling the weed had planned to rob the guys who were buying the weed, so they brought a gun with them. In the end, the guys selling the weed were quicker on the draw. There was a lot of debate about if people should feel sorry the guys who got shot.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/01/loose-change.html#comment-188242

Solar
Sorry about your Snow shoveling problem,staying in shape though! HA.Be careful of that shoulder-bicep.I hope your day was good otherwise and that your business meeting was fruitful.I've been working around here today doing my Sat. house cleaning and I also had some new mulch to put in the landscaping.Hey Solar if you need to remove water spots from your windows from the sprinkler system use Kaboom and a non-scratching scrubber.I general use it on soap scum in clients showers its a wonderful product,HA HA.you give me great tips on interesting things to watch on TV and I give you cleaning tips doesn't really seem like a good exchange!! HA, Oh well.....Keep those intelligent history posts coming........thanks.....

Tony

Not true---you share your friendship--what can be more important than that?---Oh not really complaining about the snow---it is what it is,,,thanks for the tip on the windows-----you may not have cleaned a new house after they are built,,anything that makes it easier is welcomed,,,thanks,,,,about these post Tony---if they are not backed up by sources,,,they are worth posting---some of them lean one way or the other,,,but one has to come up with an apposing source,,,,I lied the present conflict is not all about religion---things have changed a little----but the diff is about might and the right to write your own one sided history???---One more post and it is done----I will feel good that there is some data out there now----prove it wrong,,or right is what I say now.

Game over.
Ravens win.

Solar,

Going back any farther than 100 years on the subject of Palestine is pretty futile. At various times all of the parties has shared or warred over the area. For a clear picture of the Modern conditions and players, you can start with the end of WW I when the area came under the sway of the British and the divisions into something resembling the modern countries took place. You have made several totally erroneous statements, so you might start here for a fairly comeplete refresher course

http://www.un.org/Depts/dpa/ngo/history.html

Jamie...

Great post. But I say going back any further than 5 minutes on the subject of Palestine is pretty futile.

Hamas is shooting rockets into civilian populations and won't stop.

Israel must invade to stop that.

The toll among Palestinian civilians is a tragedy. But it is a failure that is squarely at the feet of their failed leadership.

"When you consider it's about "power" and not about "sex," "

Ivy,

I know what you're saying, and understand, when you say it's about power. But I still can not believe that it's not also about sex. Men are often more aggressive than women because of testosterone (or at least that's what I think). Back to that animal neutering. They also become less aggressive and dominant once they are castrated.

But maybe I'm over simplifying by comparing it to animals. There is a psychosis involved, and I might be wrong in discounting that part of it. I'm less sure of my position now than I was when we began this conversation.

"castration would be questionable as a complete end to a sex drive in a dis-ordered system."

Bethy, You're right. And that disordered system is psychosis. And what do I know about the workings of that sort of mind. Nothing.

Gaza's a barrel, sucks to be a fish.

'specially when the big fish in your barrel think they can win.

Tony, I just added Kaboom to my shopping list. Thanks!

Lardo

I totally agree. When you back up and back up and back up and the other guy keeps insisting on attacking, you get to a point where you have to do your best to put a stop to the attacks.

I don't know how you begin to cure insanity. Egypt, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia need to get in on this. It was their actions grabbing land originally intended for the area designated for the Palestinian State and using these people as pawns in their own games. Now they have to help put a stop to it.

Syria and Iran are going to go on making mischief and the US is no longer considered a trusted broker thanks to Iraq. Maybe the French can make something good happen.

Jamie---you just said it all---Why go back in History when you can get the whole truth,,,,and sentiment of the last 100 years,,,,futile to you -but Im finished so there won't be any more----my next one is about how the African Americans,,,the American Indians,( how they),,and others minorities were refused citizenship with the help of the Press,,,and Politicians ---is this also a futile subject??

Another town of Islamic and Arab significance is the town of Gaza, or Gaza in Arabic, in the south of the maritime plain between Mount Carmel and the frontier of Egypt. It was the southernmost of the five allied cities of Ascalon, Ashdod, Gath, Ekron, and Gaza of the 'Pelishtim' of Philistines, the non-semitic people who were inhabiting the country of Peleshat in the plain. In the course of history Gaza has been the scene of innumerable battles.It 's affinities in antiquity were generally with Egypt. In the course of the great war between Syria and Egypt, the Philistine plain generally, and Gaza particularly, became strategically important, The strife between the Jews and the Philistines dragged on, until the maccabaens succeeded in subjugating them. The Assyrians captured the town in 734 b.c., and it was ruled also by the Babylonians and Persians, apart from the Egyptians. Alexander the Great took it after a protracted siege, and it eas contested for a long time by the Ptolemies and the Seleucids. In 96 b.c. It was seized by Alexander Jannaeus and destroyed. A new Gazza was built some distance to the south. After Herod, the town came under the Roman province of Syria. Under the Romans, Gaza enjoyed a peaceful and prosperous life. The Arabs conquered it in a.d. 634. Gaza was the meeting place of three trade routes, besides the direct route from Egypt to Damacus. The first was the frankincense route from th Yemen through the Hejaz t Petra and off to Gaza. The second was the sea route from the east, to Elalth (Aqaba) and then to Petra or Gaza, the third connected Gaza with lower Mesopotamia by way of Petra and Jauf. For Gaza the most important route was the frankincense route. When Alexander the Great took Gaza, the booty included vast stores of frankincense.tlhe demand for his commodity in ancient worship was very great. Gaza was then the largest city in Palestine and Syria l Gaza is still an impoortant market-place for the souhtern part of Palestine. In 1912, there were about 40,000 people , of whom 150 were Jews. Musllim tradition regards Gaza as the birth place of Solomon. It is somewhat holy in the eyes of Muslims because the Prophet's greatgrandfather, a rich trader from Mecca, died in Gaza and was buried there. Hence Gaza is called Hashim's Gaza.

As we go up north in Palestine, Muslim associations become comparatively thinner. It is especially lin the eighteenth and the nineteenth centuries that the northern part of Palestine became prominently l involved in polotical and military affairs. The battle of Hittin in 1187 took place near Tiberias, When the Crusaders were defeated by Saladin. To the north-west of Jenin, the battle of Ain Jalut took polace between Mamluk Baibars and Kotuz of Egypt on the one hand and the Mongol hordes on the other in a.d. 1260 About the middle of the 18th century , Shaikh made himself master of central Palestine.

In 1799 Acre was successfully defended against Napoleon, and there are still in northern and central Palestine stories and legends about the part played by the people of Jenin, Tulkarm, Nablus, and the surrounding villages in dispatching contingents against Napoleon, in 1832, Ibrahim Pasha from Egypt destroyed Acre, and again contingents were sent from those towns and villages to repil the Eguptioan army. In 1840 ?Acre was bombarded by British and Austrian vessels. The Position of Palestine as a holy country for Muslims derives very strongly from the Crusades. These wars, as already stated, were not only inspired by religious Zeal for the safeuarding and protection of the Christian holy shrines in Jerusalem and its environs.But they were also inspired by the desire of conquest and expansion. The Crusades did not conquer Jerusalem alone, but they conquered the whole of Palestine,

When the Byzantine Emperor Alexius 1 dispatched appeals to the West for volunteers to heop stem the advance of the Turks trough Asia Minor, Pope Urban 11, at the Council of Clermont in 1095, skilfully tranquillized this plea to call for a great independent military expedition not so much to aid the Greek Christians as to expel the Muslims from Palestine...the fir Crusade was launched in an atmosphere of intense religious emotion, and was conceived as part of the grand counter-offensive against Islam which was already being conducted on two fronts, in Spain and across the Mediterranean towards North Africa.A third front was now to be opened in the Levant...This unprovoked asulat by the “Franks” of the distant West ( p.158 A History of Medieval Islam by J.H. Saunders, London, 1965) This imimical spirit continued to smolder even until the end of the First World War. More than ne book was written in the West about “ The Las Crusade' General Sarrail m, the French High Commissioner in Syria, during his first visit to Damascus,m went to see the tomb of Saladin.He is to have said Saladin, nous sommes ici----Saladin , we are here!

The Jewish immigration into Palestine under the Mandate (1920-48), and the establishment of Israel in 1948, have had the electrifying effect of making Palestine holy in a wider Islamic frame and in a narrower Arab one--------Now the question of Palestine, especially after the Israeli Occupation of Jerusalem, June 1967 and the subsequent partial burning of Al-Aqsa Mosque, is no longer a local one, concerning only Arabs of Palestine or the Arab world, but it has also become the concern of the Islamic world, as attested by the Islamic summit conference at Rabat in Morocco from 22 to 24 Sept. 1969. The speeches of the heads of states at the conference and the communique at its conclusion emphasized the importance and significance of Palestine as a whole in the eyes of the Muslims. The Pakistani President said at the conference that Pakistanis, ever since the Balfour Declaration of 1917, had constantly supported the Arab cause 'which we have looked upon as the collective Islamic cause of Palastine.

All these major, FACTORS, RELIGIOUS and otherwise, play their collective role in making Palestine a holy country to the Muslims. Another very close tie between Palestine and Muslims, Arabs and nonArabs, is the number of ancient Islamic and Arab families which still live in the areas captured by the Israelis in 1948, when almost all the Arabs were forced to leave their hjomes., For instance, in Nablus there are families descended from Beni Makhzum, the tribe of Khalid ibn al-Walid, the greatest Arab general in the very early period of Islam. The Tamimis, Descendants of Tamin al0Dari, a companion of the prophet , are spread on Hebvron, Nablus, and Beersheba.

The Arab ans Muslim roots are very firmly embedded in the country. The Arab rule for 900 years, and the subsequent Muslim rule for nearly 400 years, during which the Jews, not to mention the Zionists, had almost no religious or secular existence, cannot be expunged at will and denied capriciously. This long period of about 1,00 years of continuous and integrated rule should be contrasted with only about 73 years of united and truly independent Jewish rule in the country, after which the Hebrew Monarchy broke up into two quarreling and fighting kingdoms, those of Israel, which lasted until 722 b.c. And Judah, which lasted until 585 b.c. ( p.8, The Decadence of Judaism in Our Time, by Moshe Menuhin, Beirut, 1969)

If the Zionists claim that Palestine is their country on the basis of a religious sentiment dating from 2,000 years ago , the Arab and the Muslims of Palestine have a more forceful claim, Of course, it is no good bringing forward cogent arguments in favor of the and Muslim case at a time when the maxim Might is right reigns supreme, even when there is a United Nations whose raison d'etre is to safegaurd legitimate rights and too settle disputes equitably and peacefully. It is as though Theodor Herzl, the founder of political Zionism, was speaking on behalf of the Palestine, Arabs when he wrote. “In countries where we have already lived for centuries we are stigmatized as aliens, often by those whose ancestors were not yet settled in the land where our forefathers had always suffered affliction. Who is the alien in a country only the majority can decide, for it is a Question of Might like everything else in relation between nations...In the present state of the world, and probably for a long time to come Might precedes Right. It is useless therefore for us everywhere to be good at riots, as were the Huguenots. Who were forced to emigrate. If we could only be left in peace....(p 92 Theodor Herzl by Israel Cohen, New York, 1959) Yes , if the Arabs of Palestine had been strong enough to defy and defeat the Balfour Declaration, as military strength to tear up the iniquitous arrangements, Israel would not be in existence now. Might is Right, as Herzl said.

Jamie...

It's just too bad the Syrians can't just grow up and lead like the Jordanians did. That would make a huge difference in that region. Instead, they're still playing Greatest Hits from 1948-1967. To what end?

SolarCrete...

Your posts are way too long. You should either quit doing them or start charging money for them on some other site. Just a suggestion.

Oh. And don't just apologize profusely and continue to do it. That seems to be one of your specialties.

C'mon Solar...be a good citizen here.

Yeah, Solar, I agree. This place needs more inane bickering and cookie recipes, and much less thoughtful composition. How dare you.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/01/loose-change.html#comment-188311

Chloe,

I'm not suggesting sex perps shouldn't be deprived of their "weapon of choice" -- as punishment, if not minimal safeguard to the public. Just not to expect it will necessarily erase dangers posed by such individuals.

Hello Champ. :)

Solar...here's a few tips:

Make a quick point. Back it up with some evidence (quickly). Be witty and collegial. Don't cut and paste. Let people react. Don't play the victim if they simply disagree with you.

Then make another point. And so on...

Then rinse and repeat...

Don't make us all go to college again with your long, impenetrable posts.

I like you, dude, but I'm starting to scroll over everything you post. Is that really good for anyone?

Thanks Lard that is my last long post----wanted to get that out of the way,,cos I don't like the subject ---makes me look sympathetic to the people that are not so well liked----I just did not think that it is fair for everyone to say so what-they deserve to be killed and starved.. that is all

Sol -

I'm quite distracted tonight by football and dinner (hubs just now has it ready.) May I have an extension on my reading assignments? When is our homework due?

:)

Ivy,

I honestly do agree with you. I really did, because of this conversation, rethink my position. I was sure I knew something when we started, and I now know that I don't know anything about it. : And I'm ok with that. Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it. :) That's why I'm hear. I always learn something.

Here's a quick point:

Fuck LL. Post what you want.

Quick enough? Call me a good citizen. ;)

Post what you want.
Piss on your neighbor's shoes if you want.
Yeah.
That's right.
Dumbass.

Solar

Absolutely no one is saying they deserve to be killed and starved. There are those among them who are so fanatical that they will not stop trying to kill others that they hate. Do the "others" DESERVE to be killed?

The only way to stop the violence against the innocent is to in some way eliminate those who prefer their hatred to peace.

Lardo

You are right no more apologies ,,thanks for your input on how I should post,,,,but have to do it my way---or it won't come out like my posts--so just do not read my long posts,,,,I like you too....been what ----7 --9 months since we said hello--to each other ????

Solar,
Isn't it great to have Champ back. :)

Solar...I think I've given you shout-outs more recently than that. I enjoy your presence here.

Just be mindful of our time.

Champ----You stay right where you are----posting!!

Excellent Solar! A totally AWESOME short post!

Sol -

Lengthy posts are fine, though sometimes I have to let them pile up like the stack of books and mags on the floor by my bed. I'll read them all eventually.

containers for the things contained........

but will the chinese lend me some money?

Jamie ----it is difficult------and that is the whole reason that I posted all of that bullshit----I can't be all one sided.

Lardo---you already said what you think of me---let it go at that,,,sure I will be mindful of your time,,and others that is why I wait for all the a.m. conversation to stop.

Solar,

All That we are requesting is that you link to what you are copying and pasting rather than putting it all here. If you are going to quote long passages from The Handbook of Palestine, just give us the URL

http://books.google.com/books?id=RvttAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA81&lpg=PA81&dq=%22The+first+was+the+frankincense+route+from+th+Yemen+through+the+Hejaz%22&source=web&ots=JdrKXPAG1F&sig=2vs_806qWSxT7k_JPBf_0AoZgUI&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPA80,M1

it can't be all one sided that should read ---Jamie----

Oooohhhh, Solar, I'm telling Principal Crawford on you! Run from the blog gestapo, RUN!

What and not give you a look at History as it was written---tell you what,,,whenever some one blames one side or the other for days,,,,and days you come out with the explanation as to why one side is wrong or right,,,,,you haven't done that here ,,,and no one raised one eyebrow when innocents were being killed,,,,just that they deserved it,,,,

Chole

I think that it great having Champ back----but only if he sticks around,,,,can't be a sometimes friend

Lardo I respect you way too much for me to be a smart ass--so I will let it go.

Solar...I'm not trying to mock you. I very much enjoy your presence here.

I'm just trying to encourage you to post shorter. That's all.

Look at it this way: If Leo Tolstoy were still alive and through some really weird twist of fate was a Trailmix fan, I'd read his long posts.

But none of us on this site are Tolstoy, not even close. So..please...just try to be mindful of your audience here.

Solar,

That isn't true. We have blamed Hamas as a terrrorist group which they are. They have refused every single opportunity for a peaceful solution and violated every pact and peace agreement.

It is horrible that innocents (on both sides) are being killed and injured, but the fault is with Hamas.

Speak for yourself, smart-ass.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/01/loose-change.html#comment-188344

Champ just proved that he looks through the world through the lens of a 9th grader. Way to go Champ.

",can't be a sometimes friend"

Solar,

Isn't a sometimes friend better than no friend at all?

I'm glad you let it go with Lard. He has his moments.

Yes Rita has come out and voiced that opinion,,,,and has been told the same thing---they desire to be starved----even in my poor limited way ---I would have had empathy for them,,, and expressed that it was a hard problem to relate to and resolve.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/01/loose-change.html#comment-188350

Hi Champ. All happy families are the same, and all that....

"It is horrible that innocents (on both sides) are being killed and injured, but the fault is with Hamas."

Posted by: Jamie Author Profile Page | January 10, 2009 8:58 PM

^Opinion, not fact. The U.N., among others, would disagree.

All I Really Need To Know I Learned in Kindergarten. :)

Chloe...I definitely think you have your moments too. Did someone confirm you as a judge of others, or do you just assume that role?

Chloe--About Champ----yes we( I ) will take him as a sometimes friend ---but I was just trying to push him a little,,,and make him stick around-

Holy cow? Did you guys just see Leo Tolstoy posted here? Amazing! And I thought that dude was dead.

And my admonition to Solar was satirizing the juvenile behavior of others here, but you would have to have the perspective of an 11th-grader, or at the very least a sophisticated 10th-grader to understand that. Nice try, though.

Lard, I didn't realize I was judging anyone. But I guess we all do that sometimes.

Champ,

I hope you stick around, you may learn something.

Lieutenant Colonel Adds His Voice Requiring Proof of Obama’s Eligibility to Serve.

"The following is a letter that Dr. Orly received from a member of the United States Military. A Lieutenant Colonel is urging our military and all civilians to support the Supreme Court as they face a decision that takes a great deal of courage. The decision to protect the Constitution regarding Obama’s eligibility will result in cries of outrage from many Obama supporters and the media. However, it must be done if the rule of law means anything at all.

(See link for letter)

This is probably the first time in American History that members of the military are seriously considering if they are willing to follow the orders of an incoming President. Where are the reporters? AWOL - it’s not part of the Obama “Fairy Tale”.

The media’s conduct has been scandalous regarding their protection of Obama’s “Fairy Tale”. They have not reported or investigated many stories that they would normally be all over but for the fact the stories involve Obama."

http://zachjonesishome.wordpress.com/2009/01/10/lightfoot-v-bowen-lieutenant-colonel-adds-his-voice-requiring-proof-of-obamas-eligibility-to-serve/

Jamie

You did it again---you lead off with accusations ---opinions that we really don't know---can we just say that they are both wrong to some degree,

Chloe,

You are constantly judging people here...directly and indirectly. You should know that. I thought you did know that.

My suggestion: Start drinking heavily, and just enjoy the site for what it is. :)

Spare me, LL. Your Jedi mind-tricks won't work on me.

Football time.

Solar,

The Israelis have committed crimes against the Palestinian people. At times their response has been over reaching and violent.

BUT, and it is a big one. To my knowledge, no Israeli has ever strapped on bombs, strolled into the middle of a Palestinian market place and blown up total innocents just to be killing them out of hatred.

Until Hamas and other terrorist groups stop doing that sort of thing while civililains give them cover and encouragement, then this will never be settled,

Champ...Touche. You won that one. :)

Champ I think I know what you meant,,,and yes that is what I attempted ----I feel that we are all connected,,,,,if you take a body and place a little space (air) between them---you have a connection all the way to Gaza---I am starting to lose that feeling sometimes,,,and I don't like that,,,or better yet I want to totally experience that feeling sometime,,,that has to be the best high that can be felt---I think that you understand ---if not sorry----oops I just said sorry again.

Don't know that I was advocating anything for public policy---but if a family member is hurt by some nut,,,I don't want him alive---ok Mr. Dukakis ---

Yeah ---and give me a city full of pacifists,,,and just one guy with a knife,,,,and I will take the one guy all the time---you talking about morals and ethics is laughable!!

For sale: The P-I
After 146 years, the newspaper's days are numbered: 60

By DAN RICHMAN AND ANDREA JAMES
P-I REPORTERS

After 146 years of delivering news, the Seattle P-I faces becoming what it has chronicled: history.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/395463_newspapersale10.html?source=mypi

"Detroiters Carry On" By Mitch Albom

http://www.freep.com/article/20090110/COL01/301100004/1082/Detroiters+carry+on

This is a great read. This article was in this week's issue of Sports Illustrated.

Wow, didn't the evening turn nasty?

Chloe - you sure got some, didn't you? I didn't see that coming. I wasn't arguing with you, just wondering. I suspect we don't know enough about sex to be sure what creates the sex drive. I just don't want to rely on castration as a fix. Those programs they tout are even more worrisome to me.

I don't care anywhere near as much about punishment as I do about protecting the innocents.

Solar - you're probably right about gene manipulation, but there would be big challenges to it in courts - many would say it is cruel and unusual, and they might be right.

The other problem with gene manipulation is that it doesn't help victims, and doesn't protect them before a crime. If you cure a rapist with gene manipulation, how can you then punish a person who has been made whole?

Frankly, I think the best way is to not decide now what to do about it - keep an open mind and keep wondering and keep remembering the goal is to protect society. Figure out a better way to protect innocents.

And, Solar, that means Hamas could protect its own people, simply by not shooting rockets. That's all it has to do, and it won't do it because it wants to act on its hatred of Israel - when all that accomplishes is death for its own people. Hamas cares ONLY about shooting off rockets and their mouths - their people deserve better than that.

Israel is protecting its people. It's time for Hamas to do the same.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/01/loose-change.html#comment-188306

Solar
Thank you! I'm sorry for the nastiness hurled your way tonight.I think your a very good poster,genuine and not snotty with your intelligence! Its a blog say what you like in the way that suits you..............

Hello world...as some of you know I have been on the shelf as my computer died and I was in transition to a new one.
I think I watched all those damdam old STARZ movies on the lineup! Thank gawd I now have a new internets connector, to connect to our little corner of the internets, as Craig writes sometimes.....DEXTER

Corey...JC still in Holland?

Jamie, I agree with you that it's Hamas' fault. Even the PA doesn't support them.

FYI, some of y'all drove ET away.

Good to see ya back here again, Dex.

Grab a mop.

tt

Yep. I'm off til Jan 22nd. Business is very slow.

Chloe; 9:07 pm.... If I had to be judged by anyone, I would hope it would be you. You are about the fairest minded here and really try to keep the peace, and your posts are thoughful and mostly concise (I wish mine were), but some things are just futile. I believe what's going on over there is overkill, as always, I mean the casualties are approximately 800 to 1 and that's what been reported, how many haven't. It's become a blood feud, like the Hatfields and McCoys only one side has an army and the other has oversized firecrackers.......

Rita

"This is probably the first time in American History that members of the military are seriously considering if they are willing to follow the orders of an incoming President."

did i read this right? did gordo at 9:10 post a link suggesting a coup is being planned by our military?

bear,
if you're there,
take care.

and has anyone heard from jason? miss his clarity as well as bear's pov on things important.

patd -- I'm always afraid to click on Gordo's links....God knows what's there or who is tracking it. But those "letters from Col. so-and-so" always leave me rolling my eyes anyway. So many of them don't pass the Snopes test.

I've not seen anything to suggest that the military is freaking out right now. For one thing, the military knows just how badly Bush has demolished its strength.

"....afraid to click on Gordo's links..."

patsi, yeah, you wind up with fruit cakes instead of cookies.

ROFL, pat!!!!!

Patsi, about the only place I've seen a significant concern is on gays in the military. Double digit numbers say they'll leave if the current policy is changed to something more liberal. (Source is a Military Times poll of a couple of weeks ago. Their polls typically gather opinion from higher ranks and career people. In other words the results are skewed.)

I think the numbers are actually higher if the first-term people are accurately polled.

Because of the lowered enlistment standards, and lower attained educational levels of first term enlistees, I don't believe it would be an easy transition if the policy changed.

I don't have concerns on the military following orders in operational matters.

Patd, I wonder if Jason isn't in the jungles of Suriname.

gordo has so far advocated armed revolution and mutiny......he's very disappointed in obama as pres.
or maybe he's just "reporting" upon what might happen........I think he'd be happy with a good old civil war though........
to be so concerned NOW with the constitution, while being quite happy with the last 8 years of constitution bashing is over there in Right Field somewhere.......

lots of times people SAY they'll quit something or other but then when the time comes they dont.

Sturg, actually I'm more concerned about barracks violence.

"anyone heard from jason? miss his clarity as well as bear's pov on things important."

Same here, pat -- and Flatus may be right. Wasn't Jason going on a big trip? I am concerned that something was going bad in Bear's life. He was such a good and interesting guy I would hate it if things went sour.

On a lighter note. When Stinky and I made our walk around the yard yesterday, we discovered that the daffodils have emerged. And, when I was looking at my calendar this morning, I saw my note from last year saying that the first robin was sighted on 11 Feb.

So, it looks as if we are on an accelerated schedule this year. I wonder if there will be a change in robin arrival. Is that a good measure of climate change?

FWIW, here in Columbia I look for the last frost as being around Apr 15th. So, despite the apparent signs of Spring, we'll resist temptation when it comes to planting tender veggies.

.........I seem to recall the same type arguments being used when blacks were being integrated into the armed services.......it was going to be terrible, terrible, etc and then it wasnt so bad.........

with these economic times, guess we should gird ourselves for more stories of friends losing jobs, cutting back on food and medicine, cars and home repos, illness with no or unaffordable treatment, increase of broken relationships, mental breakdowns, and just plain old running away either literally or thru suicide.

flate......as i told bob the other night, here it is january and I havent once fired up the heater in my shop......outside this morning in t-shirt and quite comfortable.......

I went thru school integration in the sixties and it wound up being "no big deal".......Pat Conroy has a section in THE PRINCE OF TIDES about how they integrated schools around the south (and elsewhere) and I think I witnessed the same thing at my school......

It's different, Sturg. Even after integration occurred, many of the de facto trappings of segregation remained, such as blacks going to the same clubs that they used to go, and whites going to there clubs. It probably took more than ten years for real integration to occur.

The difference is, everybody knew who was black and who wasn't. That's not the case when it comes to sexuality.

I fear the worst as people either come out or are outed.

well......I just happen to believe that citizenship is not based on race or sexuality........you're either a citizen of the united states with full rights and benefits or the dec of independence and the constitution are just empty words......

but I guess we'll see how it works out.......

Indeed

Flatus, you mentioned that the poll you read was officers, etc. Would there be an age thing there? I know with both my grown children -- color, sexuality or whatever -- means nothing.

I know that my son worked with an older woman who finally confided to him that her service in Vietnam had been as a man. She was shocked at his "Okay...and?" attitude about it. Many of her older co-workers would have had a different feeling, she believed.

My son's response was that maybe more of them should have been raised by a "pretty radical feminist" as he was...ha!

"guess we should gird ourselves for more stories of friends losing jobs, cutting back on food and medicine"

You are so right, patd. Every freelancer or self-employed creative type I know has been hurt drastically by this. Including me. People are too scared of new projects, whether in music, books or construction.

Patsi, I think the older and better educated people understand and appreciate the contributions gay people are making in their own units. I don't believe they are the problem

I think young well educated people are also okay.

I see the problem as being the less educated, less intelligent people now being inducted. This is compounded by a strong presence of Latin American inductees many of whom have strong traditional RC backgrounds.

I think we need be deeply concerned at barracks backlash in both the Army and the Marines; the people I'm talking about aren't the enlightened ones such as your 'kids'.

Rita,

Not once has anyone requested that Solar stop posting. We may have disagreed with his opinions, but never asked him not to voice them. The ONLY request is that he not cut and paste long screeds from other sources that take up huge amounts of blog space. First because in long threads it can take a long time to load for anyone on dial up and hogs space by other posters and second, it obscures his opinions rather than amplifying them.

It is a simple matter to give your opinion or a reader's digest version of something longer and then post a URL for expansion and clarification on your ideas. It takes no more effort than the copy and paste he already does and is more courteous to the others posting.

Jamie -- glad you are here -- this WaPo article in the American way of death will get your blood boiling...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/09/AR2009010902298.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/01/loose-change.html#comment-188408

Flatus, That was exactly the same problem that existed when the services were integrated and there were horrible incidents of attacks on blacks at the time. It required that one the President be absolutely firm in his support for the change he and made, the forced retirement of any officer that refused to uphold the policy, strict enforcement of rules at the lower level, and punishment of anyone who violated the rights of others on either side (punishment of an act not a condition).

Today, the military is more integrated than any other part of American life. The same will happen when gays and lesbians are allowed to be open in their lifestyles rather than just serving in secret as they have done since the founding of the country.

Not quite sure how they will handle base housing for families if there are adopted children or spouse allotments since that requires legal marriage, but the style of "bachelor" housing on or off base would probably work in their favor since they are basically two bedroom apartments. :-)

I don't mind Solar's posts at all. We post lengthy recipes and even lengthier poetry and song lyrics....same difference. You just scroll on by if not interested....

Patsi,

Boiling isn't the word for it. Volcanic level of explosive would be closer. I don't know which is worse, the selfish desire of children to put their feelings above the peace they could grant a parent or a medical system that milks every last dollar out of a dying human being.

Advances in medicine are all well and good They do wonders never before possible, but when it comes down to prolonging a life that has reached its natural end at a point well beyond the traditional three score and ten and lived in confinement and paid, for God's sake let them leave.

I've become an absolute crusader for living wills and every hospital having a POLST system in place. It is such a simple thing to do, and if your community doesn't have the system, insist they get it.

I've threatened to haunt my children and make their lives miserable if they don't follow instructions. Of course being my kids, the comeback is, "but you do that already". :-)

Jamie

I did not cut and paste the last series of information that I provided------After a cpl of days of calling friends for information,,,specially on a question that someone had about the Muslims trying to get to heaven so they can get 72 virgins----this was told to me that it is a myth---but also some truth to it cos of so many people (religious ) believe in it----just like the religions in the west believe in our myths-----I was finally given a site that had that information-----it was scanned in information----I then printed it out and typed it,,,and then posted it-----I thought it that important to show some other U S citizens take on it...

Jamie ---I don't know----last night Lardo said that I should stop posting long posts----or go make some money at some other site-------????

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/01/loose-change.html#comment-188360

Good morning all
Chloe
I agree with this post of yours from last night we all make judgments about people and the organizations they represent its human nature.IMO your probably the fairest and least judge mental person here and I bet if I knew you personally I would say the same.What happened here last night is a perfect example of how people get driven away from this place,it all really comes down to a few posters disagreeing with the opinions of another poster and then they cloak that disagreement and make it about something else noble....Of course then feelings get hurt and poof there gone.....Just my opinion.....

Tom
Where are you? Hope your well......

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/01/loose-change.html#comment-188409

Amen, Jamie.

I don't believe the "serial super-long posters" are purposely being discourteous any more than those of us who complain are trying to infringe on their free-speech rights.

But the dynamic here seems to be to reflexively dramatize these back-and-forths as personal attacks and victimizations, which they do not necessarily have to be.

It's a simple a matter of etiquette and common courtesy. When on a putting green or in a tee box, for instance, you do not talk while your partner is addressing the ball. Do it once, and you'll be gently scolded. Do it twice, and you'll get a strong complaint. Do it every time, and people are going to stop playing golf with you. And it won't be because they want to supress your First Amendment rights.

Solar...I definitely enjoy your spirit here and I'd like to be able to read your posts. I don't want to just scroll by, but after awhile that seems to be the only option available.

Patsi,

The difference is that song lyrics or recipes are immediately identifiable. Solar quite frequently posts things that I might want to read or know the source, but simply don't have the time at the moment. A link or identification of the material he is using gives the reader the ability to evaluate the author or go back to it at a later time.

I would like to read his actual thoughts and commentaries on an issue as well and why he thinks another author's material has value.

Lard, one of the nice things the military did with lengthy monographs was to have the author prepare a couple of paragraph executive summary. The reader could then decide if it was worth reading then, or of filing it for reference later on.

On super long posts, that would be a courtesy that I would appreciate.

Solar,

The point is that rather than type it all out, you could have done exactly what I did above when I went to find the source: Copy the link to the material and post it. Then state why you felt this represented your thoughts on the matter or had value as a commentary. A much simpler act than manually typing it all out.

"I've threatened to haunt my children and make their lives miserable if they don't follow instructions. Of course being my kids, the comeback is, "but you do that already". :-)"

HA! Same here.

Lardo---take your own advise and stop calling Champ names every time that he appears

By the way, has anybody posted this piece about who is really selling arms to Iran. (What else is new?)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/10/AR2009011002236.html?hpid=topnews&sub=AR

MTP is good this morning. Host and guests are all good. (I love Maxine Waters) -- only problem, Mayor Fenty is sitting such that he appears to have a lopsided halo above his head.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/01/loose-change.html#comment-188421

Patsi
Yes! If this were Junior High School a person would probably be sent to the Principles office for 10 swats with a paddle!

Solar...I think Champ gives as good as he gets, and he's proven that he can take care of himself.

Did not say that he could not take care of himself-----it is your attitude of picking who is courthouse of this blog and who is not

I will drop all of this if You all do------I know that the long post have been intrusive----but when you push me against the wall and tell me that I am a hypocrite --When I "profuselly appologize" for taking the space for the long post,,,that to me is not Golf etiquette,,,,,it is blog etiquette,,,

Solar...now THAT's a post of readable length! Thanks!

Solar...I think I was just pointing out that "profuse apologies" eventually ring hollow if the behavior continues.

Anyway, I didn't mean to offend you and I'm sorry if I did. Like I said last night and again this morning, I hope you stick around.

courthous=courteous

For all you music lovers out there, the DSM Register is running a Sunday series leading up to the 50 year anniversary on 2/3/2009, of "The Day the Music Died."

http://data.desmoinesregister.com/holly/index.php

Solar,

I didn't "Bring it to Craig's attention". I said that in the past Craig had requested that we avoid "cut and paste" of long articles. I've made a suggestion about how to courteously avoid that. Do whatever you are going to do. I just won't bother with you at all even though I think your conversation as opposed to regurgitation has value.

"....concerned at barracks backlash..."

flatus, what are the current rules of conduct in the military with regard to assault (whether sexual or not) on fellow/sister soldiers? the rules and the swift punishment for their violation should be enforced to deter and prevent violence (verbal or physical). it matters not whether this is heterosexual on heterosexual, homosexual on homosexual, hetero on homo or homo on hetero acts of violence. any assault, battery or attempt thereof should be dealt with immediately by ranking superiors.

Lardo thank you also----the only way that I would leave --is that I would not be able to get information out there for people to read----other than the one sided info that some times comes out of here. You and I don't really matter,,,,and so far only 2-3 people have told me not to make long post---maybe 2-3 more that want to,,but hasn't----It won't,,,and isn't habitual---and I won't make it so----I really have just one more that is very important--

comes out of here sometimes

Okay Solar. I'll try to keep up with your future posts. But right now, I'm heading out for a quick bike ride before I spend the rest of the day immersed in two NFL playoff games followed by the Magic-Spurs game as an NBA nightcap. Catch you later.

"courthous=courteous"

solar, no you were right the first time. sometimes writing on a blog, making an argument and trying to provide the best evidence or precedent, does seem like we are in a courthouse before judges high on pedestals with silly wigs on their heads.

funny how some judges are sweet and kindly and compassionate about our failings and others are old stiff puritanical curmudgeons.

there's nothing silly about my damn wig........

Zooey

Thank you for that link. It looks to be a remarkable series and I've put the widget on my blog for a permanent link.

LOL

must be a slow news day is there nothing happening out in the world? Or is it so depressing that it is better not to talk about it?

I'll try to chew with my mouth closed and keep the elbows off the table. and it wasn't me who passed that gas.

Jack

"it matters not whether this is heterosexual on heterosexual, homosexual on homosexual, hetero on homo or homo on hetero acts of violence. any assault, battery or attempt thereof should be dealt with immediately by ranking superiors."

If it was about the person being gay, it would be a hate crime....right? That ought to deter some.

y'all oughta seen the hullaballoo around here when women wanted to go to the state supported Military College of South Carolina, the Citadel.......one girl made it in.........cant remember her name......the Citadel fought her tooth and nail in court after court, until she perservered and gained entrance......she got in and they hounded her until she got sick and went to spend a week in the infirmary and then dropped out......the public outcry (from some quarters) was no less reprehensible......bumper stickers saying "Save the Males" and worse.....all local talk radio savaging this little girl......but she won, even tho she dropped out......because next year there were more to take her place......one was a general's daughter.... and they all made it to graduation.. and the great military college CHANGED. (read about the Citadel in Pat Conroy's LORDS OF DISCIPLINE)

By the way, The Citadel went the same route spending the same monies and crying the same cries when they tried to prevent Blacks from attending the Citadel......

all these are object lessons in the current fight for rights for some segments of our fellow citizens.

Oxymoron of the Month :

Bush cautions GOP to stay open-minded

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1151ap_bush.html

Padt

Thank you for (alway's) kind words-

"there's nothing silly about my damn wig"

Indeed, a good wig is rather useful. Keeps the head warm on a cold morning like this morning and cuts down on the glare from the sun reflecting off the numerous bald pates.

Jack

I made it myself.

So much easier to put curlers in the wig rather than trying to sleep on the ones in your hair.

sturge, you should do something about those moths tho

don't the staples hurt?

it looks real except for that possum butt in the back.

you have to tamp down the staples on the inside....hell, everybody knows that........

New Federal Lawsuit Challenging Obama - Plaintiff Is Retired Military Colonel Gregory S. Hollister!

"Add one more lawsuit against Obama challenging his eligibility to hold the Office of the Presidency. Philip Berg and Lawrence J. Joyce are representing Retired Military Colonel Gregory S. Hollister in a new lawsuit filed against Barack H. Obama. This case is very different factually in that the Plaintiff is a person who could be called upon to take orders from a President Obama. The Plaintiff NEEDS to know “whether or not to follow any Order of Soetoro a/k/a Obama.”

Where’s the media? AWOL I have to say that the Media is consistent in following Obama’s orders without question."

http://zachjonesishome.wordpress.com/2008/12/31/new-federal-lawsuit-challenging-obama-plaintiff-is-retired-military-colonel-gregory-s-hollister/

pat.....the moths dont matter......I tell people they're flies........

Flatus -
"Barracks violence"
The Romans worried about that, their solution seems to have been work the troops ass off.

gordo.......ha......just let's see the revered retired colonel try and refuse to obey a direct order........

all them roads didnt just spring up like mushrooms, by golly...........

Does anyone here think Shrub will issue blanket pardons for his torture crew. (or any of the other issues that put the W administration as cross purposes with the law)

Last night there was a bit of a dispute at a dinner party with most saying --since he doesn't think he did anything wrong why would he issue pardons and one lone loser saying he will do it on the last day.

KGC

We did do anything wrong so there is no need for a pardon, sums up Cheney's comment on the subject the other day.

Jack

it does seem to be a bit of a Catch-22 for the pardon issue.......

Flatus & all the other gardeners -

Love those details about nature in one's backyard. It helps to decorate the sets of the "Web Theater of the Mind".

Here's the rule of thumb folks -
This place, or any other. No cut & paste of long boring ass tracts written by other boring ass people. If there's a long boring ass post, type that bastard yourself, if you expect us to work at reading all this drivel, you have to work at writing it.

KGC

BTW, I'm begining to believe there are only a few of us who find torture morally repugnant.
Notice how easily the ticking time bomb senerio is sold every time the subject is brought up?

The rightwingers are right when they say we seem to lack a moral compass, their problem is they don't have a solution to the problem.

Jack

KGC -
Yes , pardons will be given, but he'll do it poorly.

Who would George Washington Torture ?

the spartans were no more successful in ruling Athens (the thirty tyrants, after Athens' defeat in the war) than the democrats were.......and the democrats made a real hash of it...........

politicians......fooey.

Well, if we are gonna talk about torture...I live in West Michigan. Unlike Southeastern Michigan, I am far enough away from Detroit so no Detroit Lions game were blacked out this year or any other year for that matter. The Lions went 0-16 and every damn game was shown on tv here. How's THAT for torture!

Cbob

If the stories out of vallyforge were to be believed, his own army. It was not a pleasant winter.

Jack

gordo your starting premise for the scenario you paint above is spurrious, specious, and supercilious.......but I guess you know that........

That go for short boring post that are 15 post's long,,,and the instance to read long boring ass Pickens Blogs

it will be ass boring if all the Music post are just the ones that you or some one else just likes-----I enjoy most of the ones that are posted,,,,I will make a list of the ones that I don't,,,,and that folks should be a rule of thumb-only post the ones that I like----I did not miss your point--at all,,, so don't tell-me that I did,,,you---could have made that post at a later time,,,right now I can't make up my mind to be respectful,,or come out swinging,,let it go!!!

well........I'm going to turn my wig around backkards like Holden's red hunting cap and go trabajo in the sawdust.......

tally ho............

Plus I don't think the pardons would mean no hearings. I've heard the argument it would free the people to testify before congressional hearings because there would be no criminal jeopardy.

Cbob
well not stretch to think he would do it poorly since doing it poorly is the hallmark of his administration.

Jack -
I've asked for a while now, if anyone ever heard of the ticking bomb senerio in real life, so far there doesn't seem to be one.

It is one of the most sophomoric lines of reasoning I've ever seen.

But here's a line that never gets brought up :
"Slippery slope"
Yesterday here it was considered sound thinking to castrate people, if we can torture the top 25 members of some group of thugs, then why not torture that mother who's 4 year-old is found in a Glad bag?
That's pretty vile, killing your children. Better throw in murdering mothers along with the those top 25 thugs out to get us.

(i like to work possum butt frontwards.......)

Much more attractive that way. :-)

The tobacco farmer served six months and was fined $500 for manslaughter in 1963 for striking the 51-year-old barmaid with his cane for taking too long to serve him a drink. Hattie Carroll later died of a stroke. In the "Lonesome Death of Hattie Carroll," Dylan criticized different standards of justice meted out to whites and blacks.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1110ap_obit_zantzinger.html

kinda chippy aren't you there Solar-Crete?

Lest anybody think I am without the sin of long posts, I plead guilty. Hell, I used to post the entire "This day in history".
How boring is that ?
Plenty

CBob

I remember the case very well. One thing to remember about that time period is that it was actually a common sentence for any man who beat a woman where the woman took time to die from their initial injury. It would be decalred Manslaughter with a six month sentence simply because the bastard didn't really "intend" to kill her.

With all the advances that women have made in the law since, this sounds horrific, but even now that matter of intent, particularly between spouses, enters in to the judgement. About the only improvement is that now the sentence is more commonly Second degree murder and there are years attached to the penalty instead of months.

"kinda chippy aren't you there Solar-Crete?"

Kiss you?? I don't even know you,,but yes,,,some times I can get a chip on my shoulder,,,,you haven't?

Gassy Tax Considered
"The Environmental Protection Agency is considering the idea of a tax on cows and pigs."

http://www.kcci.com/video/18454335/index.html?source=CNN

This is a slippery slope if you ask me. Cows and pigs, what's next, certain humans?

CB---I want to thank you for just defusing my short wick with this post---Ok back to almost normal "-)

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/01/loose-change.html#comment-188485

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/01/loose-change.html#comment-188488

Zooey, This actually has a practical application in that there are now systems that allow for the capture of cow and pig "by products" and turn it into energy to power the ranch.

http://earth2tech.com/2008/07/25/cow-power-could-provide-3-of-us-electricity/

SC -
The only real sin is being boring, we are sinners from time to time ,in that regard.

Cbob

Not only is the ticking time bomb scenario so rare as to be nonexistent. But if it does come up torture would be the worse response to it. Torture creates resistance with an increase of false responses to questions. You have to stop and check out the information then start all over again. A dedicated terrorist would find himself in a position of power.

Go ahead torture me. I will lie, you will run around like a fool, the bomb will still go off. I win.

We will tackle the slippery slope fallacy in another post. ;)
But I get you point.

Jack

Zoey

On the original thought contribution,,,,I think that you are partially right---it is a slippery slope----but nothing to stop it,,,,in a point in time,,,even human waste will be taxed,,,we will find a way to make it edible---and right now it is (I think) being processed for garden mulch,,,we have to find a way to use all materials and waste matter,,,there is simply no room for it.

Griefer Lard Ass must be having a good old time sitting back watching this mess he's created. Come in, drop a bomb, then leave.

Solar, I know it must feel like you're being ganged up on here. It's not good enough for one to insult you here, others feel they must back him up.

Post what you want and let them discuss it all they want. They're not your problem. They don't own this blog and they don't own us. Keep up the good work Solar.

Sturgeone; 12:13 pm........"politicians phooey", I'm with you, Sturge, as I said before politics is a dirty business, eveb if you are teflon coated...........................

KGc; 12:25 pm...... "hallmark of this administration is doing things poorly", Katherine, what kind of psychiatrist would you need if you were George Bush, to make you believe that you had done your best and that what happened wasn't really your fault, so that guilt didn't lead you to suicide.....................................

Rita

Life At Negative 78 Degrees In Alaska
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=99162528

Living in Tok Alaska: Social Media Capital of the World
http://livingintok.wordpress.com./

Rita, Thanks for that kind post this morning.
Also thanks to Bethy and Tony... Those posts meant a lot to me.

Chloe

I think that Padt,,,does have some kind of legal background,,,,,she's great. Thank you---you are really the very best -----back at you :-))))

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/01/loose-change.html#comment-188439

Patd is great Solar. I like her a lot too. (but it's you that is the best).

Rita

Did you see the movie "W?" It gives a pretty good insight as to the delusional world of George W Bush.

Rita-

Sorry were are my manners---thanks friend,,,,,Tony you too---make all the wise cracks about the weather that you want too.

I don't believe it will be Obama's door except where the Justice department would get involve. Constitutionally it is the job of congress so good luck with that one.

Jack

KGC

I don't think bush's own staff is listening to him anymore. He is in an echo chamber of one.

Jack

I was just reading Thomas Ricks blog over on the Foreign Policy web site. In addition to their excellet periodical they also have started a blog site with several very good bloggers. I recomend it.

Today Ricks posted an amusing post comparing Bush and Obama's grandfathers. T

Titled
"Mau-Mau and Irgun descendants head for the White House?"

I love the ending sentence.

"But then, times change. Who would have thought a few years ago that Iraq would not have a president with Hussein in his name, and that the United States would?"

Jack

ooops, forgot the link

http://ricks.foreignpolicy.com/node/15040

sturge, handsome as ever in your possum hat.
http://www.paulmcmillan.com/160_self_portraite.html

btw, these folks also sell possum beanies.... wonder if they have the ones with propellers on top.
http://www.oilskin.com/possum06.html

jack, yeah they might be "a blog site with several very good bloggers" but i bet their blog judges don't wear possum butt hats, frontwards or backwards. no class is all i can say. hrummpf.

Patsi

Thank you

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/01/loose-change.html#comment-188412

Patsi,

Did you see that John Hager of the Hager Twins and Hee Haw has died?

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/entertainment/2008611003_apobitjonhager.html

jack, plus they have a guy on there called "guy" that can successfully compete in any long blogger of ours contest.

solar and chloe, am honored by your good words. thanks.

Patd

Give them some time they just started the
blogs a few weeks ago. Right now the comments get stuck on polite intellectual stuff, but I sure they will mature to a good brand of flame throwing personal insult.

Jack

Jack

Just E-mailed that T. Ricks blog to a republican friend of mine---Rick--going to see him this week,,,this will give us somethings else to talk about other than construction,,,which we do plenty of...thanks

Patd

lol

You are right
Guy did three posts about the subject and all of them were longer than the original post and just as interesting

Jack

Solar
They also have a Loyal opposition blog where this week Republicans have been discussing what went wrong. Not being a Republican I have found it amusing.

Jack

Thanks for the link on the Ricks blog. I've book marked the base site so that I can read everything he writes and the commentary. Today's remarks about Islamic extremeism are short but to the point.

http://ricks.foreignpolicy.com/

P.S. I like "Guy". He writes his own opinion and provides links to those of others and his references. It is a pleasure to read. Paragraphing is easy on the eyes as well.

Maryland State Police.

"More Groups Than Thought Monitored in Police Spying"

"One of the possible "crimes" in the file police opened on Amnesty International, a world-renowned human rights group: "civil rights." "

"Troopers have said they inappropriately labeled 53 individuals as terrorists in their database, information that was shared with federal authorities."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/03/AR2009010301993.html

Some one may have posted this but it needs repeating anyway.
Jack

"I think in the long run the only we can be grateful to George Bush for is bringing down the curtain on the Reagan era!

Truer words were never typed.

Jamie -- I saw that about Jon Hagar....it's very sad, and also freaky. He and his twin were almost mystical in their closeness. When Jim died last year I heard more than a few people saw that Jon would waste away. They were actually a lot funnier in person than on any show I ever saw, because at parties they were just genuinely funny -- not doing corny routines.

Today on blistersyeahbutchannel

Revising History to Fit the Myth by Myth Busters

Clinton is Reagan.

(Yet Obama hopes to be Ronald Reagan)
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2008/01/you-sir-are-no-ronald-reagan-by-digby.html

If you haven't watched CNN's Documentary I O U S A, try to catch it. It is a sad commentary on the current financial crisis but the history is fascinating.

http://www.iousathemovie.com/

This site has a 30 minute version, but CNN is showing the full version right now, but it is in the second hour.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/01/loose-change.html#comment-188536

What a stupid post and who cares what you said
You aren't the boss of anyone including yourself

"If you're going to comment on my posts at least get it right"

You go first.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/01/loose-change.html#comment-188533

Patsi,

The is often the way with twins and couples who have been together for decades. Something happens that turns them into a single unit and one half can't survive without the other.

Oops, Meant to add another bit to the previous. When confronted with extreme grief over the loss of a friend or mate, it is always a good idea to not make any important decision until at least one month for every year the person has been a part of your life has passed. Quite simply, you are not sane and decision making should not be done during that period if it can be avoided.

Boy, for anyone who didn't check the NYT today, it really looks like David E. Sanger's book that's coming out Tuesday has some good stuff. He unloaded two big pieces in today's paper.

Both are pretty scary -- the magazine story takes us inside the Pakistani government's security apparatus for its nuclear arsenal, and points out the ramifications of a failure of the government there. The lead story reveals U.S. covert efforts to undermine Iran's nuke program. Both links below worth the read.

NYT Mag story on Pakistani nukes:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/magazine/11pakistan-t.html?ref=washington

NYT lead story on Iran nukes:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/washington/11iran.html?em

OMG

I just watched that Numbers episode. It was magnificent. If they don't put that up for an EMMY for writing if nothing else they are out of their minds.

There were enough issues about time, action, regret, and the way forward to keep you talking for hours.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/01/loose-change.html#comment-188503

Solar
Ok you asked for it..Well today was nice and sunny with temperature's hovering around 80 and i might further add that i have all the windows open....As my Aussie friend Baz would say" LOVELY"..HA HA ,Your the best as Chloe said earlier and by that I mean you have really added much to this blog and made it enjoyable for many!! Keep your focus there and the rest will take care of it self....

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/01/loose-change.html#comment-188543

In this age of pocket book nukes the long range variety maintained in case we ever have to slap Russia on the nose seem comical. Those huge ICBM's are virtually worthless. The enemies now are the equivalent of back alley thugs. The trouble with back alley thugs is that they can walk across borders or hide in SEATRAIN containers.

It is in the interest of the countries of the world to convince their heads of government (even the ones we don't like) that it is in their best interest to cooperate with stomping on the irrational practitioners.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/01/loose-change.html#comment-188548

I agree.I just think in Pat's mind its either massive tax cuts(Reagan) or massive spending(FDR) and in truth its probably some of both....

Jamie...after reading those two stories I think it's inevitable that we are going to see a nuclear attack on a city somewhere in the world in our lifetime -- whether by terrorists or by a rogue state like Iran.

As W.H. Auden said of the Moon landing: "from the moment the first flint was flaked this landing was merely a matter of time."

Same goes for the spread and use or misuse of any technology, for good or evil.

CBob

Out of my price range at the moment but a truly wondrous creation.

Jack---looks like things are starting to move a little----haven't had one of these in about a year now----very low price on the lot----but ---what is going on over there?

search has found new properties that might interest you. If you have any questions regarding these properties or would like to schedule a visit to any of these properties, please contact me by clicking here or calling me at one of the numbers listed below.

If you do not wish to continue receiving these email notifications please click here.

I am at your service,

Respectfully,

Evan KaneOffice: 847-282-3933
Cell: 312-953-5205
Endeavor Realty

Search Name: Pacos || EDIT THIS SEARCH Bed/Bath Avg Sf Lot Size Price
6825 ABERDEEN ST CHICAGO, IL 60621 0/0 Less Than .25 Acre $5,900
Chicago Real Estate LAND** SOLD AS IS

Tony----the 80 degree weather is fine---but did you have to rub it in with the open windows?---if they are not more than 5 ft high or so, jump out of it.....Oh and look for some cool stuff that Im sending your way in a cpl of days.

"These things are amazing, they do the plasma dance"

Wow, C-Bob -- that IS amazing.

CBob...that looks like a very elaborate water pipe my housemates and I had in college. It was six feet tall, made of various laboratory glassware my brother (a chemistry major) scavenged, and -- best of all -- had running water from the kitchen sink circulating through its entire length.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/01/loose-change.html#comment-188553

Lardo, If you are going to quote Auden, then everything that has ever been said about war and the demoralizing of the human was said in "The Shield of Achilles". One of the few poems that ever made me cry.

The starkest bit:

A ragged urchin, aimless and alone,
Loitered about that vacancy; a bird
Flew up to safety from his well-aimed stone:
That girls are raped, that two boys knife a third,
Were axioms to him, who'd never heard
Of any world where promises were kept,
Or one could weep because another wept.

Reagan deficit spending
Clinton balanced budget

The idea that Reagan's policies would still have a resounding effect a decade later is more a tenet of faith than of rationality. Especially when you consider that his signature effort, the reduction of the tax rate, was partially repudiated by him with his tax increases later in his terms.

As for Clinton, I think he profited more from the productivity gains from the PC revolution than the Internet revolution - indeed, the VC money poured into dot coms was an indication of how well things were going than a driver of improvements.

Once we get to the point where economics is more of a real science, we will realize that the economic growth under Clinton was as much a matter of getting a lot of little things right (and not too much really wrong) than any grand economic policies. On the other hand, I think the current administration will be characterized by getting a lot of little things wrong (increased government spending rather than tax cuts in times of a recession are pretty much the
proven method to health) resulting in a deeper and longer recession than necessary.

Who is this guy?----he's good!--

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/01/loose-change.html#comment-188561

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/01/loose-change.html#comment-188499

Chloe
Your welcome.I'm just saying what I feel and I'm careful to say its my opinion.I think you and I have learned much here since the primaries and were no shrinking Violets now...HA HA,and thats a good thing...I wish some of you could enjoy my beef roast with carrots and rutabagas,its cooking in the oven now in the same cast iron pot roast pan my Mom used to cook all her nice Sunday roast dinners when i was a kid and the smell is heavenly....

CRAIG or anyone else in DC - Heads Up - OwoooooGAH!!!

I have a cup collection. I want something from the Obama Innaugural but I HATE with a vile passion any of the touristy "I Heart" stuff.

If you see a cup that is truly unusual with a seal or some symbol of DC ... something that really makes you say ... Oh that's different.

Please let me know where I can get it, or pick it up and I will reimburse you.

Thank you.

Solar

lol
Thats my question too, very professorial, lotta big words strung together pretty.

I was going to say "Icouldn't have said it better" but then I don't think I could have said that at all.

But I do agree with Yeah But. and would add that Clinton got conservatism right in that he did the pragmatic and got our economic house in order. He did the liberal right too after the healthcare fiasco, by using incrementalism to achive his goals. Americans are way more comfortable with it than wholesale overhaul.

Jack

Solar,

There has been a great deal written about the fallacy of the Laffer curve as promulgated by Reagan and how the best rate to prevent the boom and bust cycle is roughly 60 to 70% at the highest end as promulgated by Kennedy when he reduced it from the WW II level of 90%.

Jamie

Laffer and Keynes suffer from the same problem. They are only useful in the extrememes. No may verywell be the time to think like a keynesian. And I suspect that Laffer is also true at the extremes.
But neither have a place in the middle ranges, politicians and economist who ridgidly cling to them are fools for the most part.

Just my opinion

Jack

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/01/loose-change.html#comment-188556

Gotcha....Your tough though you can take it....

Jamie---agree 1000 % with you,,,,but that guy is still good,,,,,don't know that I agree with him (all of it)---- but ---as Jack pointed out Clinton was a better conservative than he was a democrat sometimes,,,,,,and he had not choice,,,he had a republican congress,,,,sometime I wonder-------also I hope that Obama doesn't try to do too much with an all dem. congress and an all dem senate???

Tony----Sound like you are a good cook,,,and enjoy it also,,,I should have added a HA to my last post or haha ,,,but it is all fine.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/01/loose-change.html#comment-188565

Jack...

Your post made me laugh out loud. It reminded me of an old Far Side cartoon where a bunch of slovenly, horrifically ugly drunks are sitting at a bar, and one of them is commenting to another as an only-slightly-less-horrifically ugly customer walks in through the door.

The caption: "Who's the pretty boy?"

Jack

Economics is always a tight rope but what politicians keep missing is the unchaeable fact: If you are going to go into debt then it should be to acquire an asset that you hope will increase in value.

It doesn't matter whether that asset is art, land, or investment in a hopeful business transaction or human improvement. The money should support the future. That is why the WPA that built buildinges and roads did so well and then the GI Bill coming out of WW II worked so well. It built many of the infrastructure that surrounds us today and educated a generation to prepare them for the modern era.

If you put money into a one time "feel good" item, it is funds down the drain.

I posted a little while back all the taxes)laws) over 100 years by both the R's and The D's----I do think that a flat sales,,and a flat income tax is over due???

The increase of revenue by tax methods---are part of the problem of hidden money also imo.??

Jack...that reminds me...I've been meaning to send you this book recommendation. It's a great piece of KC history that looks at the links between the Pendergast machine and the mob, and how traces of those links lingered into the 1970s, 80s and beyond. As you know, lots of this history unfolded close to your neighborhood...like the hit on the Spero brothers.

You should order it. It's definitely worth the 15 bucks.

http://www.amazon.com/Mafia-Machine-Story-Kansas-City/dp/1569803366/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1231716433&sr=1-1

Inaugural mugs.

For starters:

http://pic2009.inauguralcollectibles.com/category/MUGS.html

http://www.zazzle.com/president+obama+commemorative+inauguration+mugs

I am sure there are many other sites. This is just two I ran across ast week.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/01/loose-change.html#comment-188570

Solar- Yes I love to cook,my Dad was a chef in the Navy and taught me everything he knew about cooking.I borrowed the "Ha" from Patsi,i started using it while she was taking a break from here and it made me feel good, like she was still around then she came back but 'Ha" it still is.........

Tony

Ah---you were a Navy brat---the next weather report that you give me ---I will leave out the Navy part haha----I have two friends ( childhood friends ) that were in the Navy----I( we) tease them about the training that they had in boot camp--they were allowed to watch t.v. and all while in the Marines we were training to save their sorry ass's---not ture,,,,all Military Service is equal ,,,,but it made for some good fun arguments.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/01/loose-change.html#comment-188577

Navy brat,my Dad would like that but no he was in the Navy when I was born but ended his 3 yr enlistment shortly after my July arrival.I'm more like a GM brat from Flint,Michigan..Sounds like you had a great time in the service,did you marry and have your children while in the Military?

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/01/loose-change.html#comment-188567

Jack, In a way that is my point. Those who have the majority of the wealth in the country have a duty to pay the majority of the taxes even those though taxes go to pay for stuff that benefits everyone . Anything less and you have the defeat of capitalism and as it stands now, the American economy.

One of the difficulties is how to capture "income" from people such as the trust fund babies who have no payroll style "income"

LL

Thanks, I'll look it up.

Yep there is a lot of Italian history around here.
I've become aquainted with the brother and cousins of some probably mentioned in the book
I believe one of the hits over the war over the River Quay happened in Jets lounge parking lot over at Truman and Jackson. I had just moved to Kansas City( the first time,) in the early 70's when all the stuff broke loose in the River Quay. I think that kind of caused the end of the KC mob as a major force. After that the FBI sent several big names to prison in the eighties.
They are still around a bit. In the late eighties I live over in the blueridge/ 40 highway area. Some one drove by a house and shot the owner in his front yard.
He and a bunch of his biker buddies ran a titie bar on 40 highway. It wasn't long after that it opened under a new name under the management of a well known local Italian family.

BTW Jets lounge is no more, it is a greek restuarant and a good place to get a gyro.
lol
The world changes, I don't think there is a store over on independence avenue with an Itallian name on it. It is little Mexico now.

Jack
Jack

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/01/loose-change.html#comment-188580

Jack,

That sounds like my last trip to Fresno. As a child there were several Greek or Armenian restaurants with "grandmother made" bits of deliciousness. Now there is one where you can get drive through gyros and shish kabab unless you want to wait for the once a year Greek Orthodox festival .... sacrelidge!!!

Jack...

Let me guess the titty bar's name: Bunz. I spent a couple of bucks there myownself.

Also, when you lived over at 40 and Blue Ridge, did you ever stop into Hi-Boy? Best burgers in town. My family lived on that place throughout my childhood and adulthood (Mom always hoarded HiBoys coupons for when we'd come home to visit). I was very pissed off when recently the Wendy's cut a driveway through their backyard. Screw Wendy's.

Anyways...try to find the book, even though Amazon is apparently out of stock. I thought the threads ran out in the 1980s too...but the Civella line is still alive and active. That's one of the best things about the book.

Fatalities from rockets in Israel/Palestine in 7 YEARS: 25

Palestinian fatalities in Gaza just TODAY: 33

Murders in Philadelphia 2007: 392

Can we stop pretending Palestinian rockets are an imminent threat to Israel warranting a response such as the current Gaza offensive? Those rockets are the modern equivalent of the sling.

Champ

This is election season in Israel, this will all blow over after the election.

Wow, living in Philly is like living in Bagdad.

Jack

Champ

Thank you very much for that post------I have said before that it is all political------What bothers me most is the Gang violence,,,,some little boy or girl killed while watching t.v.,,,by a bullet that goes thru the wall---these gangs should be sent to the hot spots around the world.!

Patsi...don't blame Jack. He just reported the existence of the titty bar. I was the only one who admitted going there! :)

Patsi

If it is any help the place is closed as are a number of the old traditional topless joints around town. I think the problem is there are too many amateurs in the business. Just check out the online classifieds for your local alternative newspaper, complete with detailed pictures of the product.

BTW, these joints are nothing compared to the exploitation that goes on in the media.

IMO

Jack

Jack...was it Bunz? Or some other place?

"BTW, these joints are nothing compared to the exploitation that goes on in the media."

That's exactly the kind of shit I'm writing about. I remember shaking my head when people got so outraged by Janet Jackson, yet said nothing about the 4-hour erection ad that ran right after the "malfunction."

Here's TS Eliot on Titty Bars:

I grow old … I grow old …
I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled.

Shall I part my hair behind? Do I dare to eat a peach?
I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each.

I do not think that they will sing to me.

Oh, and just FYI -- one of the causes I took up when I had Colo Woman magazine was when Sid King the strip club "mogul" of East Colfax fired a topless waitress because she was pregnant. Not so many traditional women were with me on that one until old Sid made the mistake of saying (in public) that pregnant women were not attractive. ROFL. It hit the fan then.

"I'm sure that's never been a problem for the men in your life. "

Nope -- none of them were on Viagra.

LL

Bunz was what it was named after the Italians took it over. They cleaned it up a bunch.

When the biker ran it it was called Michaels I believe and it was a rough dirty place.
When I worked beer vending at the Royals we would go there a couple time a summer. Only with a group, I can only handle those places if I've got a bunch of friends around me.
It had some of the ugliest dancers, I think they were all biker chicks. I remember one who has streatch marks that kind of hung loose on her body and jiggled contra to her dance movements.
Scary.

Jack

Using the term Tittie Bars will no longer be sexist BS when they ALL are tagged: "Tittie Bars Frequented by Cheeto Dicks."

Jack...

On the other hand, I remember going in there one night and running into the 40-year-old version of the prettiest and most popular girl from her St. Mary's High School class. She wasn't stripping...just bartending. But she was still as pretty as ever. A beautiful Italian girl.

(Patsi...I stipulate that you owe me a couple of whacks with the rolling pin for this line of conversation. So be it.)

Patsi...LOL on that last post.

Patsi

Wasn't it you that posted the link to the Porn industry asking for a bailout?

I guess business is a little soft in the sex trade.

Jack

What's with the hostility tonight?

Corey...LOL.

Why is this night different from any other night?

Have we discovered a new date for Passover?

FYI, I heard that the Back Channel isn't as crazy as this place. People don't fight there as much as they do here. I wonder why that is?

Wrong reference link

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2009/01/loose-change.html#comment-188595

Passover? Isn't that what Bob Hope called Oscars night?

Corey...Magic are giving the Spurs a decent go tonight. Going on right now.

LL, I hate the Spurs! A friend of mine is a big Spurs fan. Last night at the other website I go to, we were all talking about which people from there we had met in person. Lots of people have met each other in person. Kinda like when a few of us from here met in Las Vegas. I said, "I met JP once! Kidding!!!" My one friend said, "Had you not been kidding, you would have gotten a lot of sympathy from all of us!"

Jamie

One other thing, they come over here to raise hell

Jack

SoetorObama will not be chuckling if his answer to Keyes and/or the reporter is confirmed. It's what SoetorObama said in 2004 about his eligibility for POTUS.

Sorry to leave the festivities....but Cold Case calls....

Corey...Magic are actually sticking in this game. Leading by 8 early in the 2nd quarter.

I remember you hating the Spurs, which of course you have to do as a Pistons fan. But even though I'm rooting against them tonight, I have to admire Duncan, Parker and Ginobli...a pretty amazing trio.

They don't take shots at people over there? I mean, each other at the BC.

Dammit Patsi...you didn't even get out your rolling pin! Just be sure to come back later.

Corey

Your comment on detroit football earlier made it easier to be a chiefs fan.

I hope some day before len Dawson dies of old age the Cheifs will make it to the superbowl, not win it just make it.

Jack

LL, I have a friend who was a Pistons fan back in the day. She loved Joe Dumars, who is now the istons GM. She became a Spurs fan when they got Tim Duncan. When the Spurs and Pistons played in the finals, I asked her who she was gonna root for. She said, "The Spurs." After all those years of worshipping Joe Dumars, she rooted against his team.

Jack...

By the way, the KC mob book also has good stuff on the Lenny Dawson Super Bowl betting scandal...stuff that I don't think ever got printed in the Star at the time.

Apparently, Nick Civella was getting so many Chiefs bets he had to lay off a lot of the action to the other families just to keep the books straight. And Lenny was kind of mixed up in all that stuff -- although I still believe he did nothing wrong.

Definitely keep it on your "to buy" list.

Patsi

Your ignoring me to watch Cold Case Files?

I would be insulted
lol
Except it happens all the time around this house.

The only reason it is not happening now is that the wife is in Denver for the week.

Jack

Jack, my friend named Diane lives in Missouri. She said that she met this guy named Peter at a Chiefs game. I said to her, "We've never met at a Chiefs game! Of course, right now I have no desire to go to a Chiefs game!" She said we'd never meet if we waited until they were good again!

Corey...that would definitely be unforgiveable in my book if I were a Detroit fan.

That said, as a non-Detroit fan, Tim Duncan is one of my favorite NBA players.

LL

Will be on my next order, I see they have several affiliates that have the book.

Jack

The guy that wrote it is an Irishman...son of an old KC bricklayer.
Even though that might tend to tilt him a bit toward the Pendergast boys, I think he rises above it. Great book.

Yeah, Len Dawson gambling scandal....goes out and wins the Super Bowl the next day.

Corey...Magic now up 55-50 at halftime, and it's in San Antonio.

Great game.

Corey those were the days,

But you're right if you are waiting to see a good cheifs team it will be awhile.

The Peterson era gave us some good teams and a lot of entertainment but they never went anywhere in the playoffs. Then they just never went anywhere period. But they will be back

Gotta believe.

I'm outta here for the night or at least before Patsi returns an whacks me one.

Night all

Jack

y'all oughta leave that thaing alone.........

STEELERS 35 CHARGERS 24: Way to go Pittsburgh Steelers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Apparently, Nick Civella was getting so many Chiefs bets he had to lay off a lot of the action to the other families just to keep the books straight. "

Ha...Lard-- when I worked at Hall's Gallery of Folk Art in 1967, one of Nick's lawyers was my best customer. He even took care of a little legal problem I had once. I was shocked at how quickly I had no problem at all.

"Way to go Pittsburgh Steelers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Oh no -- Lampe -- I've got some friends who will be unbearable now....Pittsburgh transplants....

Desi Arnaz learning to drive a car pulling a travel trailer on Turner Classic Movies.........

a forty foot trailer................not that dinky little thing they did in the other oneI......I have this great tape of Desi doing "Baba Loo" on SNL.......he's fun........

I always thought Rockford had it nice in that trailer he had on the beach........

ha......desi's driviing that car and trailer without fender mirrors.............

double ha......it's Ma Kettle.............

This was on the front page of today's Holland paper.

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/news/x497786011/Lori-DeKleine-remembered

and......( i shityou not) a very young floyd the barber......

they're drinking chianti wine........in the basket bottle.....

My favorite Desi Arnaz moment was on "I Love Love Lucy" when he was supposed to do a "Rodeo" show and he thought it was a "Radio" show.

Once a STEELERS FAN, always a STEELERS FAN:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETjhEds_fKE

easy street........

As the other, or another, long-post creator, I'd like to explain something.

I never begin by intending to post a lengthy comment.
Apparently, I find myself feeling I am not explaining just exactly what I mean - or I have begun to gnaw away at a new idea. I hate the idea of not explaining myself well or completely.

Perhaps it is just the teacher in me that can't stop talking. I really do have long long periods of silence when I don't post at all.

I am always regretful when I see my long posts, and try to break them up into paragraphs so they're easier on the eyes whether you read them or not. At any event I don't delete them because I like the feeling I am communicating with you whom I like very much.

So, sorry.