Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

chicago.....the town that billy sunday could not shut down........

I see your point, Craig, but my guess is that Barack dealt with it at length one time and he'll use the dodge from now until events shift and any of his staff are shown to be involved.

Good morning everyone!

Yep, That's what I'm going to call you.
Craig 'tell it like it is' Crawford. :)

flatus, jeff on spytalk last night seemed to have heard your arguments about value of a good manager for intelligence jobs, but he came to different conclusion than you about hayden being the one.
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/spytalk/2008/12/obama-needs-to-pick-his-ubersp.html#more

In the spirit of keeping it in line with today's thread....

Obama meets the press
"So there are still some things that we legitimately have a right to know the answers to. To me, they boil down to these three:
1. What were the contacts between the Obama camp and the Blago camp on the senate seat issue?
2. Did the Blago camp say anything that sounded potentially illegal?
3. If "yes" on 2, did the Obama people go to law enforcement?

That's it. Everything else is mush – the kind of nonsense journalism too often gets into about "perceptions" and "a culture" that just tar people with broad brushes. Journalism often operates only at the level of ridiculously simplistic extremes. If something isn't completely "put behind" a person, then by cracky it must be a "scandal." But there are a lot of things that are neither and occupy the gray space in between the poles.'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/michaeltomasky/2008/dec/11/obama-white-house-blago-pressconf

Was spending time with family and chocolates last night- sorry if this has already been posted.
"Rahm Emanuel Reportedly Spoke with Blagojevich About Senate Seat"

http://www.myfoxchicago.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=8054792&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1

sturge, "They do things that they don't do on Broadway"

Interesting article, patd....I had missed it, so double thanks.

"Everything else is mush – the kind of nonsense journalism too often gets into about "perceptions" and "a culture" that just tar people with broad brushes. Journalism often operates only at the level of ridiculously simplistic extremes. If something isn't completely "put behind" a person, then by cracky it must be a "scandal."

Yes, yes! Worth repeating, Chloe!

I understand that link I posted has been scrubbed on a number of sites.

The one about Emanuel, OSH?

Be careful if Yea protests too much

The tangle of the Chicago Political Web did produce Barack..

Many of the same names in the Blagojevich connection touched and help mold Barack…..??

But just sitting in Church does not make you guilty

Lets Pray not!

But for sure one of his staffers at least has some mud splashed on them

TYPEKEY IS A PROBLEM try # 6

chloe, patsi, good article. tomasky also underscored how blago is a tarbaby for new admin with media starting to ask no-win gotcha questions.
"A local CBS reporter asked a very clever question. After Obama had said that there was certain language in the complaint that indicated quite clearly that the governor and his people didn't think the Obama folks were "amenable" to a deal on the senate seat involving money, this reporter asked in essence: how would Blago have known you weren't amenable?
Smart question, because it offered Obama a chance to exculpate himself. However, if Obama knows why Blago didn't trust him and his people, then it may mean that Obama is sitting on evidence of gubernatorial corruption, which in turn raises the question of whether he and his people knew naughty things and, if so, did they report them to law enforcement. He was asked this question too, about talks with law enforcement, but he didn't answer it."

Off to work and keeping very activity to stay competitive, aggressive and match the market needs - lower costs.... Stay ahead as best as possible...

.. So why did the Auto Workers Union just say NO?
Will they come back and work a solution?

Yes Pat, and Tomasky also had a good explanation for the governor endorsement:

"Take this question of why Obama endorsed Blago for reelection in 2006. Well, Obama endorsed him because he was the sitting governor of his own party, and a freshman senator just isn't going to not endorse an incumbent governor from his own party on the basis of media speculation and swirling allegations. He just isn't. Anybody who knows anything about politics knows this....

Yes it would be nice if the world were a different place and people from X political party withheld their endorsements from candidate Y because they considered him corrupt or potentially corrupt. But it doesn't happen. In my 25 years of covering politics, I've seen it happen once, when Rudy Giuliani refused to endorse George Pataki for governor of New York in 1994 and instead backed Democrat Mario Cuomo. It was stunning. And, in that instance, lots of people asked, "What the hell is this guy doing?" So you can't win either way sometimes."

I thought it was a good, fair article and he looks like he's on Obama's side, which we all should be.

ps
Pat, I saw a little 'grow your own' pirate, in the dollar section up front at Target yesterday. One of those little sponge things that you add water to and it grows. It was a tiny little pirate, and it made me think of you. :)

oldsea, beltwayblips.com has the fox blurb but i couldn't post their link because it's flagged.

Patsi- Yes, last nights report out of Chicago.

Patd- What does flagged mean?

"It was a tiny little pirate, and it made me think of you. :)"

chloe, an apt discription.

pirate fix for today
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122903542171799663.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

oldsea, all i know is that i could read the article but it wouldn't paste when i tried copying it. flag said
Flag for BeltwayBlips staff:
[inappropriate story]
[incorrect tags]
[broken link]
[cancel]

where does a tiny little pirate keep his buccaneers?

"he staffs of Blago and O "know things" and somebody (in addition to blago) is going down."

--leboutilier, republican.

Pat, That article you linked had a link to an interactive map of the area. The picture on the left, down a ways is striking (at least to me, for some reason). It's such a beautiful shot of a fleeing boat on the ocean, that was under observation by the navy.

On the Lawless Seas, It's Not Easy Putting Somali Pirates in the Dock
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122903542171799663.html?mod=googlenews_wsj#project%3DPIRATES08%26articleTabs%3Dinteractive

"where does a tiny little pirate keep his buccaneers?"

Ha, next time I check back, they'll probably be there too. :)

Pat, Is this it? If so, I don't know why it worked. I went to beltwayblips.com and then to the link, and did a regular cut and paste.

Is Emanuel the adviser on gov tape?
http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/1326788,rahm-emanuel-blagojevich-obama-121108.article

as gordo's handlers are even now working to copy and paste the blago blast into his hard-bitten narrative about whitey tapes, birth certificates, home-growed terriers, and ca-raaaaaaazy preacher mens.

Story no longer available at above link.

Here is a permanent link
.http://nosheepleshere.blogspot.com/2008/12/breaking-fbi-has-tapes-of-emanuel.html

not to worry, no one listens anyway.

the thing is........all they're looking for is another whitewater rafting trip.......all they have to do is find one.
doesnt really matter what it is......just something to raaaaaag about for the next 8 years......

oy

Sorry, it is still working. Didn't work for a number of clicks and said "Story is no longer available"

Hey Sea!

Want to make sure you know my 8:08 was to Sturge's comment.

By the way, I'lI be ordering some Christmas candy soon. Do I still have time?

"oy"

Human nature sturge. Ignore it.

I don't know if this is true, but I had this email from a radio news network:

"Stern: I'm leaving Sirius.
Howard Stern tells listeners "I believe I am going to leave after two years." His $500 million five-year contract expires in January 2011 and he signals he may be looking for a life outside radio altogether. He says he was ready to quit after his last CBS Radio contract, but was lured to Sirius. "

Don't mean to rant, but JEEZ! I wondered about that deal with Sirius when Stern offered him that much -- I can't imagine he was worth 500 million! Meanwhile, I know people who have GREAT Sirius radio shows making peanuts.

I don't know the story behind this or even if it is more than a rumor. If anyone sees anything let me know...

It's possible it was worth it to Sirius at the time Patsi, to build up their viewership. But now, I don't think there's any way he'll get that much money again. If the email is true, it may be he's not willing to take less in order to stay in.

stern's show on sirius is free of restraint now......(FCC rules, etc.)

perfect example of "as free as a hog on ice".

but I'm sure his compensation has been ample.

"flatus, jeff on spytalk last night seemed to have heard your arguments about value of a good manager for intelligence jobs, but he came to different conclusion than you about hayden being the one."

Pat, Devine looks fine for CIA. A military person as DNI is certainly attractive to me--or get rid of the DNI and make a triumverate composed of the CIA, DIA and NSA chiefs. The remaining agencies are small fish. And everybody reads everybody else's mail so it's not as if they will be completely ignored.

Ping Pong,

The UAW said no because they have already made significant concessions to the auto makers with regards to wages over the last 5 years.

To blame the union for all of Big 3 problems is akin to blaming the soldiers who have been deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan for the problems with the strategy there.

Republicans are proving they don't care about American businesses. The most vocal opponents to any kind of aid are furiously attracting foreign companies to their states to produce non union jobs. They see this as an opportunity to kill the union because they fear organization at these existing plants.

If they demanded similar wage concessions from the recipients of TARP money, people wouldn't think it's been such a failure.

imus just told this guy that jesus was a cabinet maker......jesus was a carpenter.......he coulda been a cabinet maker if he'da kept at it......

bear, absolutely agree with you. also think that any bailout/bridge loan better have tacked on to it some incentive to keep jobs here and disincentive to keep off shore plants and off shore workers on job when on shore plants are being closed down and workers layed off.

anyone besides olberman started counting up the foriegn non-union automakers currently doing business in southern (mostly republican) states?
nissan, toyota, bmw, etc etc......

Bear - Not blaming the Union - Asking the questions will they come back and have a dialogue - the question is not if but when - GM has Bankrputcy Lawyers now engaged.
Chapter 11 will force the issue - so their failure to accept a general term Might prove to be a mistake.
Market dynamics in time will correct all

The only one throwing blame very quickly was Dodds and Reid - Shame AGAIN on them... They do not help the process.

And remember the first runs at the Bailout took a few turns - I think it is BS that you can craft such complex soultion - but with a gun to your head?

And what is the difference between Blogo bidding the seat - and what the Dems owe to the UAW?

Hey Sturge, not quite sure what you're getting at, but I do consider a report that Rahm Emanuel is on the tapes and gave a list of acceptable replacements germane.

Hi Chloe, there is still time! I will probably won't be able to get WALNUT chocolate fudge and ALMOND bark though in time to you.

The walnut fudge is what I had in mind. I'll try to place that order today. Is there a shopping cart yet?

oh, you said no walnut fudge. how about the plain fudge?

old sea.....germane without a doubt.....chips falling where they may, etc, but I do hope there is not another "whitewater" fishing trip in store.......

The Chicago mess. How long will it be before newspaper editors start bemoaning the fact that there was so little vetting of Mr Obama's Chicago ties.

President okays use of TARP to bail out auto companies. Trying to avoid stock market crash.

Imus has repeatedly touted Bob Kerrey for Mrs Clinton's Senate seat. I think he would be a fine choice--much better than Mrs Schlossberg. I just can't see her being a credible figure outside of the City.

Chloe, We got the shopping cart up finally! Am only charging exact cost for shipping, so if the calculator seems high, don't worry, will refund the difference.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/12/obama-joins-the-blagojevich-fr.html#comment-181627

lol

It is amazing how a change of one letter can change the whole sentence from G rated to X rated.

I take it you meant "clock"? :-)

Jack

Well, so much for conversation and a pleasant exchange of ideas. Have a great day folks!

Glad to know that was an error!

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/12/obama-joins-the-blagojevich-fr.html#comment-181594

I don't know, sturg, in his tiny little shorts??

good catch there? How could yo miss it.

at least he spelled election right

"where does a tiny little pirate keep his buccaneers?"

sturge, and how does he keep his privateers covered?

Bear, I think you've hit the nail on the head, but I'm not sure it would result in busting the union as much as it would result in changing its contract. Let's assume the failure of the loan legislation forces GM & Chrysler to file for protection under Chapter 11. The bankruptcy judge can review the union contracts and reform their terms to provide a shot at financial stability for the bankrupt companies. If that means a change in the pay levels and benefits, that's what the UAW gets stuck with - or at least that's my understanding of the judge's discretion. Latest figures I heard sound like bringing the UAW contracts in line with the foreign companies' labor rates would amount to about a 1/3 reduction for UAW workers. The UAW would be forced to accept it or strike. Now, I'm not a labor lawyer or a bankruptcy lawyer, so I don't know whether the union can strike while the company is under bankruptcy protection or not if it doesn't agree to the reformed contracts.

sturg, don't forget M-B.

his buccaneers are under his buccan hat.......I thought everybody already hoid that one......lol

M-B?

he's own his own with his privateers......

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/13/business/13markets.html?hp

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/13/business/economy/13econ.html?_r=1

And the Dow is down more than 100 so far, following the foreign markets' leads. Nice work Mitch and Rich - you have again proven to be the repug clowns of the Senate.

Pogo

Once you remove the unfunded pension and healthcare for retirees from the labor numbers then labor expenses of the big three are not that much higher, at least according to what I heard on NPR.

The Ironic thing is if they default on both of those obligations the Federal government picks up the slack for a greater cost than the bailout.

Jack

Because obama is a crooked politician now we have replaced a crooked politician wuith another one.Thats why he is fielding ?.

Emmanuel, is in trouble. Predicit he will not make it to WH CoS office.

avast ye skivy, oops, scurvy lot! time for some levity?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vytosDX9dVM&feature=related

the union guy is scoring right and left.......

what if gov blago appoints wife patti?
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/12/will_gov_blagojevich_appoint_h.html

Pogo

Bloom berg had a great article about the overnight and world markets it was loaded with quotes from foreign investment types about our politicians. Basic doing a polite version of "what a bunch of f888ing morons"

I went back to look for but they had rewritten it and change the quotes,
lol
maybe too much honesty

Jack

Jack, may be - I don't know about the micros to the macros I heard. If the pension plans are unfunded the must be defined benefit plans, which are routinely wiped out by bankruptcies, so that makes sense. How do the hourly wage/health benefit plans compare, if you know?

You'll have to give me a hint on that one sturg - I don't see it - or do you need to pull your tongue out of your cheek before you respond?

Sounds like #5, I mean Jesse Jackson, Jr. was trying to raise money for Blago. Whoops. Regarding the bailout: I would hope this isn't the case, but the Detroit Free Press brought up something about it. The union has heavily supported Democrats in the last few elections, causing some GOP senators to lose their elections. Now the union needs help from the GOP. Perhaps the outgoing GOP senators have the chance to stick it to the union members who have been voting for the Democrats? If it's true that the GOP senators are grinding an axe, expect the union to remember that next election.

defense advisors might counsel gov blago to appoint self asap to buy time and play some pre-emptive discovery. since he seems to be toast anyway, by appointing self the timing of his senate expulsion hearings takes precedence and may bring to light all evidence in fitz's case before fitz has crossed all t's and dotted all i's.
blago seems to be a fighter and scorched-earther type.

Jesse Jackson Jr. and Blago.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081212/ap_on_re_us/illinois_governor_jackson

Pogo

The $73/hr being thrown around includes all the legacy costs for retirees.

As to the other I heard it on the radio and can't remember the exact numbers. Just remember the statement that they were close to the Toyota labor cost. I don't know what "close" means.

No time right now to dig out the numbers, maybe later.

Jack

Pogo

Here are some 2006 numbers.
from the uaw

http://www.uaw.org/barg/07fact/fact02.php

The car plants in the south have always paid their employees lower wages, no news there. My company has plants down there as well. People I've worked with have transferred to plants in Alabama and also San Antonio, they were told the pay rate was lower at these places.

From a segment on Thom Hartmann (AAradio) I believe I heard an average pay for line workers was @$31. He seems to work with some accurate figures. Does that sound hi/low?

Some plants here were paying their workers at least $28 an hour. The husband of a friend of mine works at a GM plant in Wyoming, Mi. She said the shift premium is $3 an hour for 2nd and 3rd shift. However GM announced they were gonna close this plant next year.

Not only will the assembly workers remember the GOP in 2010, everything I've read makes me think that even all those "conservative" new cars salesmen will too. Good!

Here's another aspect in question on the whole Blago mess.

December 11, 2008

Federal Sources: Fitzgerald Held Off Blagojevich Bust to Protect Obama Election Chances; Did Obama Fail Ethics Requirements of Illinois Bar?

http://www.debbieschlussel.comhttp://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2008/12/federal_sources.html#comments

Thanks, Jack. Anyone have a link to what Honda, Toyota, Volvo, M-B pay their US workers?

Rez, that's pretty consistent with the UAW straight wage figures Jack provided the link to - in '06 they ranged from $27 - $32/hour. Hartman strikes me as a no bullshit kind of guy. He certainly is a supporter of unions and their contribution to growing the US middle class, and is unapoliogetic about that, but he would be one of the first to call bullshit against the UAW or any other union is it was warranted. I get to catch his show after Bill Press when I'm traveling and always enjoy it.

Corey, it certainly doesn't surprise me that nonunion shops in the south pay less than nonunion shops in the north.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/13/business/13auto.html?hp

OK, I'll ask the uncomfortable question - where were the other 8 votes (at least 6 had to be dems)? The 10 reps needed to overcome a veto voted for the measure. I'm sorry, but it's not just the republicans who will have to answer to the autoworkers.

overcome a filibuster - sorry - misspoke.

Pogo

I think that shows how weak a leader Reid is. If you can't keep your troops in line when there is a 500 billion stimulus package coming down the line.
(to channel Lyndon Johnson)
You are a piss poor excuse of a majority leader.

Johnson must be down there just shaking his head in amazement. at all the tools Reid left unused.
Makes you wonder if he was just going through the motions and not really behind it.

Jack

Give 'em the LBJ treatment, Jack?

In certain situations ----Unions are no better than thugs,(,in construction,,,,all the trades)

Example---outside of government,,and, or state work, contractors are forced to pay the retirement, and health care (60-75 dollars per hr ) for the workers that are forced on them.,,if you have any substantial projects...they roam the streets and find them out----the next step is to picket you,,,and won't let your suppliers deliver working materials ------now if they don't have work for their members why are the recruiting more and more----answer---to line the officers pockets---they are just a diff kind of politician.

Yes they do ,,,as all workers deserve a working wage,,,,but why should someone be forced to pay for when they retire,,,,,they did not contribute anything to anyone outside of their unions...they have come on my jobs (union reps) in front of them I have asked my workers if they want to join up----a cpl of them have asked them ----if I join up will I be working of will I have the assurance of work-----they are told no ---but they will make union wages----so it sounds pretty impressive to say I make 30.00 per hour---but if you only work 1-2 days per week---how much are you making now----when they have built up senority enough to work full time---they have lost a lot of time and $.

With Social Security it is spread out so all share ----with unions it is only the executives that really make out-----WHY ---don't you show me a break down on what they make???

OSH, debbieshlussel is an idiot. Her stuff has been linked here before and it is invariably (almost) claptrap.

"Frankly, it's obvious that Obama knew of the "sale" of the Senate seat. He acknowledged he knew of the "sale," and "we turned it down." And I believe he knew far more than he's letting on.

"But as an attorney and officer of the court, he had a duty to report it to authorities or be vulnerable to an attack on his law license with the Illinois State Bar, of which he's a member."

This is patently false. He has no ethical responsibility to report a crime of which he is aware (assuming he was) to the state bar or anyone else. She's a lawyer, or at least went to law school, and she should know that.

jack, I've contended since Reid took the post that he was the wrong choice. Casper Milquetoast as leader of the senate. Gimme a break.

anyone besides olberman started counting up the foriegn non-union automakers currently doing business in southern (mostly republican) states?
nissan, toyota, bmw, etc etc......

Posted by: sturgeone | December 12, 2008 8:50 AM
==============

Surge ... Lou Dobbs has ...
http://loudobbs.tv.cnn.com/

Call a Club a Club !!

Two of the Three big auto are bankrupt - they have no plan, they are held hostage - The dems are in no better position then Blago - just a nicer form of buying favors -

The Unions only had to agree to get the vote last night.
They played hard ball and are hoping Barack will save them along with a Dem controlled congress - the plants shut down now anyway for holidays.

The UAW is gambling as if they do go Chap 11 then they lose control - opps could be a freindly Judge... But reagardless they should have come to the table.

So is what is the Dem's deal with the UAW? Any better then what Blago was doing.......

Hey Pogo, have no idea who she is, just saw the link on another blog. Actually thought her name sounded familiar , couldn't place it though, thought perhaps she had written something scathing about Hillary. OK, so scrape the law license stuff. Do you think its problematic if it turns out that Fitzgerald did hold out till after the election?

Here's a DFP article on nonunion auto wages in the south versus union auto wages.

http://www.aftermarketnews.com/Item/28594/uaw_losing_pay_edge_foreign_automakers_bonuses_boost_wages_in_us_plants_as_detroit_car_companies_struggle.aspx

Casteel better refine his message - putting jobs in remote places with entrenched poverty is a bad thing now according to the UAW? (That's the inference I get) Not the message I'd be sending.

Would Blagojevich have had a Senate seat to sell before the election results were known?

OSH - she's a "liberal media" accuser - blames stuff on them that they just report. She may have written something scathing about Hillary, but I don't read here except when she's linked here, so I couldn't really say.

It may appear that way, but prosecutors have the discretion to indict when and if they choose. No, it's not a problem for him. If anything it might help him keep his job.

lurker - the investigation was going on for 2 years before a senate seat was up for grabs. Apperently ol' Rod was involved in stuff well before Obama started his WH run.

http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/7-18-2001-4014.asp

Caroline Kennedy Schlossberg is her name
and it was in common use until the Obama campaign

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/time/1999/07/26/jfk.sister.html

Pogo, I guess it would help him keep his job wouldn't it?! Regardless, if that is the case, I don't approve as a member of the voting public.

Oops, forgot to thank you Pogo for offering your legal expertise on all that.

Brain - The objective is to make certain the plan can have a chance for Success. This is only possible if all elements are involved.
The UAW made a mistake by walking away -

Dodds and Reid are the ones playing the political BS game- as usual

"quite amazing for a party that claims to hold the market on patriotism."

That would be one of the tools I never heard Reid use.

We need the Auto manufacturing for a strong national defense, troops and supplies don't just magically move around.

Thought for the day :
" A Smith and Wesson beats four aces. "

1899 George F Grant of Boston )first black graduate of Harvard College, and a dentist) patents the wooden golf tee

pogo, not to defend the lady in question but perhaps, since blago's an atty (or at least got law degree from pepperdine), she was referring to prof'l conduct rules such as fla's
RULE 4-8.3 REPORTING PROFESSIONAL MISCONDUCT
(a) Reporting Misconduct of Other Lawyers. A lawyer who knows that another lawyer has committed a violation of the Rules of Professional Conduct that raises a substantial question as to that lawyer's honesty, trustworthiness, or fitness as a lawyer in other respects shall inform the appropriate professional authority.
http://www.floridabar.org/divexe/rrtfb.nsf/FV/C77FC6BD3365174D85257172004B0FBC

Goodbye Betty Page, thanks for the memories -

http://members.tripod.com/makeitsomarketing/PICBETTIEPAGEFACEFORBLOG.jpg

http://www.alibris.com/search/books/author/Kennedy-Schlossberg,%20Caroline

Jack -
See the textile industry as your template.

Bettie Page, legendary pinup queen, dies at 85

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/tvguide/391892_tvgif12.html

pogo, above fla bar rule should be read in conjunction with
RULE 4-8.4 MISCONDUCT
A lawyer shall not:
(b) commit a criminal act that reflects adversely on the lawyer's honesty, trustworthiness, or fitness as a lawyer in other respects;
(c) engage in conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, deceit, or misrepresentation,....

'course if blago isn't a member of the ill. bar and if ill. bar has no rule similar to fla's then all this nitpick is moot and i shall henceforth try to be mute too.

Honda Motor Co. said Thursday it will further cut vehicle production in North America as it adjusts to plunging automobile demand.

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D95197B01.htm

Very interesting comment Craig "How weird that Obama is doing the talking while his chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel, is dodging questions. Shouldn't it be the other way around? Presidents should not have to do their own bleeding. That's what staffs are for."

I totally agree with you. The more I read about Rahm Emanuel, the less I like him. He is acting VERY GUILTY about the Illinois Governor's scandal. If he had nothing to hide, he could very easily say "sure, I talked to the Governor. It's our job to communicate over an open seat"... blah blah blah. The fact that he is hiding with a face of a cat who's eaten the canary worries me.

In 2006 he was practically my hero for his candidate recruitment strategy in the elections, bringing the House Dems back into the majority after 12 years. But his connections to the rich banking sector bothers me greatly... As noted from the NY Times

"Mr. Emanuel, who was chosen last month to become President-elect Barack Obama’s White House chief of staff, went on to make more than $18 million in just two-and-a-half years, turning many of his contacts in his substantial political Rolodex into paying clients and directing his negotiating prowess and trademark intensity to mergers and acquisitions. He also benefited from the opportune sale of Wasserstein Perella to a German bank, helping him to an unusually large payout."

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/04/us/politics/04emanuel.html?hp

Something about this enormous windfall smells fishy, almost like 'insider trading'. Like any good Republican would do, Emanuel went on the hunt to make himself one of the rich in as short time possible.

I do admire Rahm's political prowess, I mean I really admire it. I think he is too close to Israel. I consider Israel to be an ally in name mostly, so that they can get military arms and huge financial support from the American people. I know some people here are quite enamored with Israel, but what SPECIFICALLY has our relationship with the country garnered for us? Our very close relationship with Israel has certainly made us more of a target for terrorism. Also, we already had a very visible politician who seems to put the interests of Israel ahead of those of his own constituents... Joe Lieberman. I don't find comfort in a similar personality as the President-elect's Chief of Staff.

I am not anti-israel, but I am not for all this financial and military support for them. Let Israel take care of Israel. Another real kicker for me was when it became known that Israeli intelligence was spying on the U.S. government. Oh yeah, we REALLY owe them big time....

Israel fans, please respond with eloquence and not flame wars. Thanks.

Cbob

I read somewhere yesterday that Toyota is cutting its production by over a million cars world wide.
I don't know where. As I remember their total production was around 7 or 8 million. I don't remember exactly.

Jack

Rumsfeld blamed in detainee abuse scandals

A bipartisan Senate report released today concludes that decisions made by former Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld were a "direct cause" of widespread detainee abuses at Guantanamo Bay.
A bipartisan Senate report calls decisions made by the former Defense secretary a 'direct cause' of inhumane treatment of prisoners of war. Other Bush officials also are faulted.

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-na-interrogate-abuse12-2008dec12,0,5978752.story

GM to cut production by 250,000 autos in early '09
Automaker to shutter most North American plants for 30% of first quarter

http://www.freep.com/article/20081212/BUSINESS01/81212044

I wonder how much the right wingers wanna spin the story that Obama had anything to do with Blagojevich and his illegal activity.

Letterman then asks McCain if Blagojevich is either stupid or nuts.

"I think a rare combination of both," McCain replies.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/12/mccain-blago.html

To quote Robert F Kennedy in 1966:

"There is a Chinese curse which says, 'May he live in interesting times'. Like it or not, we live in interesting times..."

Hummm, we ARE living in interesting times. I don't remember EVER hearing a union president discuss conversations with Congressional folks at a press conference on TV. But then again I don't remember the 3 big car companies asking for a bailout at the same time.

Interesting, indeed.

tt

I wonder how much the right wingers wanna spin the story that Obama had anything to do with Blagojevich and his illegal activity.

Posted by: Jimbo

Hard to quantify something that large. The biggest black hole?

Workers at GM’s Kansas City, Kan., car plant and its Spring Hill, Tenn., crossover plant this morning said they were notified this morning that they will be down from the holidays through Feb. 9.

Apparently AIG thinks that if they can't pay bonuses with taxpayer money, then the bonuses need a new name.

http://www.insurancenewsnet.com/article.asp?a=top_pc&neid=20081202665.27_a45e001aa4150b18

Jimbo, the Conservatives will spin it until it's a Whirling Dervish, even in their NO spin zone.

http://www.daemery.com/images/04-06turkey/05-30/05-30%20Whirling%20Dervish%20P1010046%20web.JPG

tt

It doesn't make sense to me that Barack Obama would be at all actively trying to fill his own Senate seat. As President-elect he certainly carries a lot of clout and it would not be unusual for such a person to express his opinion on who should fill the vacancy. Beyond that, I think he's got more important stuff going on...

Jamie, yep, GREED at it's best.

"AIG has recently indicated that it will not provide performance bonuses in 2008. However, in what appears to be a disingenuous "slight of hand," AIG has announced its intention to continue to provide the retention program payments (commonly known as retention bonuses) previously announced in September - albeit some executives have apparently opted to delay receipt of these payments (but not to forgo them)."

tt

Beleaguered investors face a "complete loss" from a scheme at the center of a major U.S. fraud case, which is likely to highlight their tendency not to question the legitimacy of big gains and ultimately lead to tighter regulation if the alleged fraud is proved.

A number of prominent funds of hedge funds are believed to have invested money in portfolios established by Bernard Madoff, a securities trader and investment adviser who was arrested yesterday before appearing at a Manhattan court charged with securities fraud.

U.S. authorities claimed Mr. Madoff told employees at Madoff Investment Securities earlier this month that the investment advisory activities of his business had been "a giant Ponzi scheme."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122909368630101789.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
-------------------
A 50 Billion dollar Ponzi scheme.
"When people realize the magnitude of this it will be fizzing around the stratosphere."

ET, interesting. :-)

"actively trying to fill his own Senate seat."

tt

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/12/obama-joins-the-blagojevich-fr.html#comment-181679

OSH, one of the reasons I'm not overly fond of prosecutors.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/12/obama-joins-the-blagojevich-fr.html#comment-181696

patd, that applies to conduct as a lawyer. or at least that's how most state bars would interpret it. As an attorney, he was a prosecutor - figures.

I haven't seen Renee or Bowmanc post this morning. Looks like they are in the middle of an Ice storm lots of power out.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2008/12/ice_storm_leave.html?p1=Well_MostPop_Emailed1

Keep warm up there.

Jack

More from the Greed file -
Legal experts say the case, perhaps the biggest Wall Street fraud case ever, could widen as federal prosecutors and securities regulators comb through the books of Madoff's money management firm and investigate his trading activities. ......................
They were "freaking out wanting to know if their money was gone," he said. "I don't think they are going to get answers for some time."

http://www.reuters.com/article/fundsFundsNews/idUSN1244645020081212

Pogo

Here is the voting role call, need we say more?

Democrats No

Baucus, Mont.; Lincoln, Ark.; Reid, Nev.; Tester, Mont

There is no excuse, they all could have justified a vote for i

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/12/AR2008121200110.html?sub=AR

Jack

Obama's campaign made speaking offers to the Illinois treasurer, the comptroller, the attorney general and a Chicago city clerk. Sen. Richard J. Durbin (Ill.) was asked to introduce Obama on the convention's final night; Rep. Jesse L. Jackson Jr. (Ill.) was told he would speak on television during prime time. Finally, fed up and embarrassed that he still had heard nothing, Blagojevich joked to a crowd at the Illinois State Fair that, yes, he also had been asked to speak -- at 4 a.m., in a Denver area men's bathroom.

Long before federal prosecutors charged Blagojevich with bribery this week, Obama had worked to distance himself from his home-state governor. The two men have not talked for more than a year, colleagues said, save for a requisite handshake at a funeral or public event. Blagojevich rarely campaigned for Obama and never stumped with him. The governor arrived late at the Democratic convention and skipped Obama's victory-night celebration at Chicago's Grant Park.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/12/12/ST2008121201821.html

C-Bob...thanks for that Reiters link ....the WSJ wanted money to finish reading the article...

Also, from the Reuters link, I noticed this....what say the financial experts about it?

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE4BA5CO20081211

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/12/obama-joins-the-blagojevich-fr.html#comment-181703

patd - Illinois has the same rule - it's from the ABA Model Rules of Professional Conduct, which many states have adopted. In IL, its Supreme Court Rule VIII,8.4(a)(3-4)

http://www.state.il.us/court/SupremeCourt/Rules/Art_VIII/ArtVIII.htm#4.1

There's a section specifically related to lawyers holding public office - VIII,8.4(b).

I report, you decide.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/12/obama-joins-the-blagojevich-fr.html#comment-181724

Thanks, jack - looks like with 4 dems and 8 repubs not voting, it was doomed. whould have needed all the dems and 3 reubs gto defeat the threatened filibuster. Reid's vote was procedural/

C'mon Ping - it's a bridge loan. How bad a plan can it be?

Well here's our problem, it's the moon -

Earth set for full moon close-up

A full moon is set to occur closer to the Earth on Friday evening than it has done for the past 15 years.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7779294.stm

Friday's full moon could appear up to 14% bigger and 30% brighter than other full moons this year, Nasa said.

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/supreme_court_overturns_bush_v

breaking news - Supreme Court overturns Bush v. Gore.

LOL

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/12/obama-joins-the-blagojevich-fr.html#comment-181736

Damn clouds.

ET,

With the Senate vote so close, Obama would be most concerned with whom Blago selected for that spot. Not that he'd get personally involved imo, but that his staff would and should. Yet, I can't see any reason why any kind of QPQ would be necessary. They are smarter than that.

As to CC comments, Irrespective of Obama saying over and over, "no comment , active investigation" reporters would keep asking and soon that would become the story. He was right to elaborate at the onset.

US automakers will make it out, but quick fix - come on....
Loans need to be based on some measure of success. The request made was "come to the table and agree you will adjust as appropriate"
I was not aware of any specifics that they had to cut XX% ! If so someone send the link.

Fair question that we should demand from all of our Congress -
If it is what I stated then I would question everyone that voted YES.
No Free Lunch - We need to work our way out.

And Looks like the Stock market did not CRASH as all the Entertainers on the Morning news was PUSHING !!

That is because industry says THANK YOU to a responsible action.

And hey if we can get more jobs in the South - come on down

It is a nice place with nice people..... Just leave the Carpet Bags behind

US automakers will make it out -
-------------------
Oh good that makes me so much better.

Cbob - Glad to know I helped you out..... One less pill

Did not say it will not be painfull - but a hole this deep.....

Ping -

I hate to break it to you, but the market has been crashing for the past year.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/12/obama-joins-the-blagojevich-fr.html#comment-181721

Not at all. It has nothing to do with oil... I am off to bed, I am dead tired really.

Ping, even the White House could see what was coming - the market was down almost 200 in early trading just before this came out.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/13/business/13auto.html?hp

Now if I was a bettin' man, I'd bet the market took a breath and said "close enough", they aren't going to let GM fail. The irony that Bush and Paulson may be riding to the rescue after their party said no is just dripping.

you say "measure of success" I say "avoidance of bankruptcy" puhtaytoe, puhtahtoe, tomaytoh, tomahtoh, let's call the whole thing off. The irony I see is that the White House, by using the FART funds (did I say FART? I meant TARP.) may have saved the UAW's role in the auto industry.
And I can't believe forasecond that the WH has that asit's goal - more like an unintended consequence.

http://knowledge.emory.edu/article.cfm?articleid=1201

This has some interesting facts and points......

The point on the market ... hold on let me look again

HEY MARKET IS UP !!!!

Did Bush say something

It's a snapshot of the times we live in: The Polaroid instant photograph is fading away.

Almost 60 years after Polaroid introduced its iconic instant camera, the company will stop manufacturing the film Dec. 31. Remaining film supplies are expected to dry up sometime next year.

http://www.miamiherald.com/business/story/809776.html

Third try, type pad sucks

Pogo

I read yesterday that Chrysler is owned by bushie loyalist
lol
Wheels within wheels

Jack

Ping, even a blind pig finds a truffle now and then. Bush just joined Alice and the crew in Wonderland.

Bob, it's odd, but that's one camera I have never owned. I do hate to see its passing, but it will be followed by film based cameras within our lifetimes. I have 2 very nice Nikon FE2s with a bunch of lenses that I haven't used in about 3 years, one I bought and one my dad bought. It got too hard to attach those damned photos to e-mails.

You know what truffles go for today !!!!!
Maybe a good investment

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/12/obama-joins-the-blagojevich-fr.html#comment-181750

Jack, I don't suppose that should surprise me at all.

Pogo - Try double sided tape - sticks to the monitor better

When the pig gets through with it it's just pig shit.

Too late, Ping - double sided tape doesn't stick to jpeg images.

I tried staples.... But screwed up the monitor

LONDON, England (CNN) -- Archaeologists have discovered what they say is the oldest surviving human brain in Britain, dating back at least 2,000 years to the Iron Age

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/12/12/york.oldest.brain/index.html

Motor city is the U.S.A.
It's not just about Detroit. The auto industry employs workers in every state - including Alaska and Hawaii. More than 2 million jobs - from manufacturing, to parts, to auto dealers - depend on carmakers for their pay.
http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/storysupplement/stateautoworkers/

----------
A state by state list.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/12/obama-joins-the-blagojevich-fr.html#comment-181661

There was a company by company average wage discussed on Rachel last night. If you don't take in to account the money the companies owe to their currently retired union people, then the current wages with even more reductions scheduled to go in effect in 2011, the hourly pay and benefits for the union folks are about in the middle of what is paid by the foreign corporations in the south.

So these people voting against this bailout are saying they will vote for 750 billion so the honchos can get "retention payments" in the millions, but they won't vote so some line worker lifting wheel caps 8 to 10 hours a day can buy his kids Christmas presents.

Bush favors using TARP. Even with all the midnight rules changes to destroy the environment, he didn't want to close out his tenure with a million more job losses in December.

LLib....
You going to the big game at Seminole tonight??

Go Boone...
Sorry Craig - Not Oak Ridge

ORLANDO, Florida (CNN) -- A corpse has been tentatively identified as missing toddler Caylee Anthony's, attorneys for her mother told a Florida judge on Friday.

Lawyer Linda Kenney Baden said in court that investigators said they "were proceeding as if this were little Caylee Anthony."

Geez. the world is becoming such an unkind place... I know it happens very often but each time I have to ask what sort of person would murder his/her own child/children? A woman in Belgium is now on trial for cutting the throats of each of her 5 children calling one up at a time and killing them ... I just really can't comprehend.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/12/12/caylee.anthony/index.html

Pogo, right now we have four film cameras. A cheapo Nikon, a nice Pentax, a wonderful Rolleiflex, and an ancient Luftwaffe Linhof 3-1/4x4-1/4.

I took a roll of portraits with the Rollei about seven years ago. They were marvelous. I may do that again over the holidays.

Our everyday camera is a Sony. Does an adequate job, but...

ET, I hope I can never understand that.

jamie - I think the best comment I heard on this is that Congress discriminates in favor of people who shower before they go to work and against people who shower after work.

ET

The truly evil ones you hear about such as the Belgium woman and the recent one here who murdered her children are usually mentally ill.

Ones such as the possible Anthony case are horrid but often the result of poor parenting skills such as shaking or slapping a baby and then trying to hide the result. No excuse for them, no matter how much sympathy your might have for their selfish, helpless frustration.

Then there are the drunks and batterers who provide a great reason to commit homicide to stop them.

flatus - those sound like wonderful cameras - especially the Rollieflex and Linhof. Are they both DLRs?

I now use a Nikon D50 - I'm sure the 80 and 90 are better, more MPs, more features, but frankly I love the thing. It's only 6MP, but I don't print anything bigger than 8x10, so it's plenty sharp for my needs. I've got 24-80 and 100-300 lenses (the short one has a nice, big aperture) and it's been a great purchase.

I feel for the grandparents of Kaylee, a parent's absolutely worst nightmare.

Co. buys back Bush library domain name for $35K

DALLAS -- George W. Bush's presidential library domain name has been retrieved after a Web developing company accidentally let it expire - and it apparently came at a high price.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1120ap_odd_bush_library_web_site.html?source=mypi

-----------
Karma

I know Tom -- that little girl's story just flattened me.

I just saw TN Senator Bob Corker -- a rich a-hole from Chattanooga -- sneering that "they" (meaning the auto workers) need to "become competitive" -- since others in the company will also be making sacrifices. Snotty little bastard.

Sacrifice this, Bob.

Hey Jamie -

Hold onto that e-waste just a little bit longer
Starting Jan. 1, consumers can recycle old PCs, televisions free

By ROBERT McCLURE
P-I REPORTER

If you've been waiting forever to unload that old TV or computer, Jan. 1 is your lucky day. A new state law requires electronics manufacturers to start safely recycling four of the most-discarded items, with no charge to consumers.

Washington's law is the first in the nation to require electronics producers to pay for the whole process.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/391547_ecycle11.html?source=mypi

OK, flatus, let me guess the Rollieflex (which I always wanted back in yhe day) is a TLR and the Linhof is a beautiful old bellows style press camera.

If Franken wins the howling from the right that Franken stole the election by (gasp) asking that votes be counted will be deafening. In the new post Delay political world republicans steal elections by suppressing votes and dems steal elelctions by counting them.

Corker's a whiny a-hole isn't he? Too f-in bad, Bob. This ain't some kind of game to get rid of the union. It's an attempt to save jobs in a market that desperately needs them. Stupid bastard.

Well, th' missus and I have a couple of hours to kill - so we're striking out in search of a nice glass of wine and some fried green tomatoes (yes, we can still get them this time of year). Everyone have a wonderful weekend and keep warm and dry.

I get a little hot when Union talk starts up------I think that when the workers were being abused by the corporations----they did a wonderful job in getting them a living wage

They have gone too far IMO----the pendulum has swung way too much in favor of the unions-------I remember that United states Steel would not make any concessions and, and now are out of business--------What they did to establish an hourly wage (Steel Workers Union) was to work on a holida( just one day)that paid 2-1/2 times the norm----and then established that as their daily pay rate-----they did not get this pay ---but the head of the unions did have it for themselves------

I don't mind that someone makes a living wage---they should---20-25 dollars an hour,,,great ---now the cost of that car---loaf of bread ,,plumber etc,,,is just passed off to the public----cos the union has to get paid benefits that are not available to the poor----the poor don't belong to any unions in any great numbers??? those wages and benefits put them at a disadvantage also---cos they can't bid on projects that require union workers-----so nepotism comes into play---and workers are forced on you----you may like them or you may not-----you can't interview them,,,or find out about them---now if you are not happy with them they can go to their unions and bitch that you wanted them to pull their own weight ----do their share of the work----etc etc etc...

I met with a steel worker that ( has his own company) wants me to consult on a project that he prepping for-----so it looks like I will have work for myself for 2-3 months----first thing that I will do is to start a night shift----no union workers--let them get up at midnight -----to catch me---but then I will have a cple of union guys on the job-----they don't have a job----they can't get work thru the unions----will settle for a decent pay check---and work for that check----they know that bragging about making 35-40 per hour, and not working at all ---totals up to a zero pay check,,

"Washington's law is the first in the nation to require electronics producers to pay for the whole process."

CB,

I saw the article in our local news, the Olympian (The big Zero) and it's gonna save me a hundred bucks+. I have two older analog tvs and a couple burnt monitors to toss. The transfer station charges a bunch to discard these items normally.

Besides we need to upgrade to one of them flat panel HDTVs and go HD on the 18th.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/12/obama-joins-the-blagojevich-fr.html#comment-181785

Another great post Solar. lt's nice to hear logic from those who live in the 'real' world. We'll all make it through this one way or the other. :)

Look for the union label.........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-UwFLAx298

What would you possibly know about the real world?

Sit there in your ivory tower, judging the rest of us all you want.
You'll never understand the difference in Rhetoric vs. Reality, Theory vs. Reality, Idealism vs. Paragmatism.

Because you neither want to nor need to.
Leave survival to the rest of us.

Renee and Bow,
I saw that weather report Jack posted earlier.
Hope all is well. At least I know you're warm Renee, with your pellet stove. :) Keep safe.

Chole

Hello-----how are things ---getting close to Christmas ----I don't like it all that much----but so enjoy the kids---so I give into it----their happiness is contagious ---so that gets me in the spirit every time

Nooooo.

"A full moon is set to occur closer to the Earth on Friday evening than it has done for the past 15 years."

CBob,
Thanks for posting that moon story. I don't see how it can be much brighter than last night. I looked out our window, and it looked like (almost) daylight, shadows and all (and we have no street lights around here). Tonight should be really interesting.

No one could possibly be so harshly judgmental of others if they could understand where others are coming from. To only see things in black and white, to not see that situations and needs change with different perspectives and needs, can only mean one thing. A total lack of empathy and understanding. That's not even a criticism. Just a fact of life. And you can't be living in the real world, if you can only see one view. period.

Sturg ---liked that union label u tube-------my mom was a dress pattern maker, for a store like Macey------she worked hard,,,and deserved her check-----she was treated fairly---fair wage--she told us---no union ----I can understand that unions are needed----but would like to make them fair

Hope you are ok-?

"---I don't like it all that much---"

Me either Solar! Something else we have in common. But like you say, the excitement does rub off when the kids, etc. get so excited.

Chole

One of my favorite movies-----is moonstruck----with Cher,,,every time that I hear the word moon---it makes me smile-----I think that she is a better actress that she was a singer??

"--I think that she is a better actress that she was a singer??"

I think so too. The day I saw that movie (it's been a while, but I remember well) I decided that same thing. Great movie, great acting. I'm sorry she didn't stick to it more. Movies (at the theater, not so much on TV) are my greatest enjoyment. Everything about them. The art, the acting, the directing, the script, the music, everything.

EVERYTHING is a black and white issue for you!
And because of that, you're missing out on so much. Because you can't learn anything new, until you figure out you don't have all the answers.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/12/obama-joins-the-blagojevich-fr.html#comment-181804

I forgot the popcorn, soda and candy. :)

Gotta do my chores. No help arriving for a while.

Van Johnson has passed away. The greats from the old studio system are departing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Johnson

Go HOme with Bonnie Jean

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piCag4wZlHo

Chloe

Same here--first thing, is I don't like it when the commercials break into a movie---so I don't watch them at all----I have a satellite box that, I get movies on 3-6 months after they get out---but I don't watch them that much ----I still like the thought of going to the movies------My first business was ---pushing a cart made out of wood ---that I put some ice on ---bought a ice scraper and sweet flavored syrop and sold --snow cones,,I used to take my two little brothers to the movies ,,,or whatever they wanted to do----but the movies was always a big thrill--for us.

"OK, flatus, let me guess the Rollieflex (which I always wanted back in yhe day) is a TLR and the Linhof is a beautiful old bellows style press camera."

Yes, the Rolleiflex is a TLR 3.5e model. It has a Xenotar taking lens.

The Linhof is probably what one would call a 'field' camera as opposed to a studio camera. Although It resembles a press camera it's not. It has a triple extension bellows, and tilts and swings on both the lens board and the film plane. It's a very serious piece of engineering.

Your group of cameras sounds like a lot of fun, too.

"you being so rich with real world experience"

Whateva

Hey fleahead----don't pick a fight with Chole over something that I said------direct your comments to me!!

There have been some really interesting comments here today. Luckily for you guys, I can't muster the energy to take part.

I have too much telephone and on-line shopping to do, and I'm not feeling so great.

Just got two shirts from LLBean that I ordered for my nephew and one of them is yellow - uh oh. The pix looked like cream and they're out of the others I wanted and my nephew won't like this color. He's gonna have fun with me Christmas day - there are so many things he'll have to say, he'll have a hard time deciding which ones to choose! lol

oh, yeah, I never heard of Bettie Page - guess I led a sheltered life!lol

At this time I don't know what the % of middle class of Americans are that are in a Union---but it can't be that much----why don't you wiki it and see----not much I bet!----country can't run on that small amount ---12-18 %??

Middle class wages simply have not kept pace with the basic costs. There are simply too many people in too many parts of the earth who can produce goods at cheaper and cheaper costs.

When you get to the point that all the American middle class can afford are products made in China then you have to ask if those that head corporations who care only about the next quarter rather than the life of the company and the people it employs aren't actually traitors.

What happens to the country when an average employee no longer has a job because they can all be done cheaper elsewhere?

Would like to know if MSNBC is slanting this story since it really makes the Bush WH sound really petty.

Blair House is used by the President Elect prior to the innauguration. The Obamas wanted to come in a little early because the girls are starting school. The WH says they can't have it until the 15th because it is being used by WH guests and for parties.

Now that would be reasonable if the space is already booked, but no help in finding another location so that the girls don't have to miss the first week of school?

ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Somebody shoot me immediately!

http://parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/12/11/orgasms-during-childbirth/?partner=rss&emc=rss

Orgasms During Childbirth?

ABC’s 20/20 will air the documentary “Orgasmic Birth”, by Debra Pascali-Bonaro, a childbirth educator and a doula, which asks the question: What would happen if women were taught to enjoy birth rather than endure it?

I don't care what you said-----don't start a fight over something that I said with another poster----

Oh noes...now I know it is a depression for sure
http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/20081212_Stu_Bykofsky__A_crisis_in_Mummerville.html

Patsi

Just one question,,,how long is the average time that a woman is in labor------------------------------all of this time she is smiling -----well 2 questions I guess

"Just one question,,,how long is the average time that a woman is in labor------------------------------all of this time she is smiling -----well 2 questions I guess "

I don't know, Solar -- one of my sisters was in labor for about a day and a half....both my kids came fast, very short labors if speaking of actual pain. And the feeling of relief when it was over wasn't any orgasm! lol -- more like "Oh, thank you JEEZUS! It's over! Now give me the drugs!"

Hhow many children do you have?

And two fabulous children they were....and great adults they've become...

Thanks Patsi-------go ahead and correct me----had my glasses half on, and half off ---and now that I think about it ---I already knew that you had tow kids

two=two

If there was only knowledge of the anatomy and cultural capacities of men and women, It would predict that women rather than men would be more likely to gain control over the technology of defense and aggression, and that if one sex were going to subordinate the other, it would be female over male. While I would be impressed with the physical dimorphism—the greater height, weight,and strength of the males—especially in relationship to hand-held weapons, it would be even more impressive by something which the females have and which the males cannot get---namely, control over the nursery, and because they control the nursery, they can potentially modify any lifestyle that threatens them. It is within their power of selective neglect to produce a sex ratio heavily in favor of females over males.It also lies within woman's power to sabotage the development of “masculine” males by rewarding little boys for being passive rather than aggressive. It would be expected for women to concentrated their efforts on rearing solidary and aggressive females rather than males. It would also be predicted that women would monopolize the headship of local groups, that they would be responsible for sahamanistic relations with the supernatural, and the God would be called SHE. Finally, it would be expected that the ideal and most prestigious form of marriage would be polyandry—one woman controlling the sexual and economic services of several men.

Female-dominated social systems of these type were actually postulated as the primordial condition of mankind by various theoreticians who lived in the nineteenth century. Freidrich Engels, for example, who got his ideas from the American anthropologist Lewis Henry Morgan, believed that modern societies had padded through a matriarchal phase (Patsi--are they talking about you?---haha--got you!) during which descent was reckoned exclusively in the female line and women were politically dominant over men.many modern-day women's liberationists continue to believe in this myth and its sequel. Supposedly, the subordinate males banned together and overthrew the matriarchs, tool away their weapons, and have been conspiring ever since to exploit and degrade the female sex. Some women who accept this kind of analysis argur that the balance between male and female power and authority can be righted only by a militant counter conspiracy equivalent to a kind of guerrilla war between the sexes.

There is one thing wrong with this theory: No one has ever been able to authenticate a single case that is representative of true matriarchy.. The only evidence of such a phase, aside from ancient myths about Amazons, is that about 10 to 15 percent of the world's societies trace kinship and descent exclusively through females. But the tracing of descent through females is matrilineality, not matriarchy. While the position of women in matrilneal kin groups tends to be relatively good, the principal features of matriarchy are absent. Males rather than females dominate economic. Civil, and religious life , and men, not women, enjoy privileged access to several spouses at once. The father is not the principal source of authority within the family, but neither is the mother, The authoritarian figure in matrilineal families is another male> The mothers brother, (or mother's mother's brother or mother's mother's sister's son).

It is the prevalence of warfare that ruins the logic upon which the prediction of matriarchy is premised. Women are theoretically capable of resisting and even subduing the males they themselves have nurtured and socialized, but males reared in another village or tribe present a different sort of challenge. As soon as males for whatever reason begin to bear the burden of intergroup conflict, women have no choice but to rear large numbers of fierce males of their own. Male supremacy is a case of “positive feedback”, or what has been called “deviation amplification”--the kind of process that leads to the head—splitting squeaks of public—address systems that pick up and then reamplify their own signals. The fiercer the males , the more exploited are the females, and the higher the incidence of polygyny-control over several wives by one man. Plygyny in turn intensifies the shortage of women, raises the level of frustration among the junior males, and increases the motivation for going to war.The amplification builds to an excruciation climax, females are held in contempt and killed in infancy., making it necessary for men to go to war, to capture wives in order to rear additional numbers of aggressive men.

Some interesting ideas, Solar....where do early religions fit in this scenario?

Hey Solar, Thanks for defending me back there, but I was the one who stuck my nose in where it didn't belong, and I regret it. I also was the one that was offensive. I should have kept my mouth shut, but that doesn't happen very often. See you tomorrow.

"I also was the one that was offensive."

No you weren't....you were fine....

Thanks Patsi.

Not sure,,good question ---will find out,,,but----All ancient peoples---not unlike, most modern ones-believed that battles could not be won without divine assistance.,

Hey Solar,

My better half is a Union member along with over 90% of the 1500 Falculty and Staff members at the College where she works.

Union members do more than assemble cars or works the trades. But you knew that !

Rez

Not against the workers at all----should have a good base pay---than like the company that I worked for we paid our union dues---and belonged to a union----but we did not strong arm anyone outside of Western Electric to join our union---wheather they wanted to or not--------please don't think that I am against workers---just against the people that take advantage of them----the union bosses------not arguing the good that unions do---just the management of them and who really benefits the most....I don't like to be told that I have to hire a union concrete finisher from the hall regardless of the work being union or not----I was told that even If I wanted to do my own driveway that I would be a scab if I did not hire at least one union finisher ---so im pretty disalushioned with them you might say ..

Im sure that there are very good examples of the good that unions do----you think that they can be improved?? or are people satisfied with what they have----as long as I have a little ---it's you to abuse a good thing and line your pockets,( the bosses--not the workers)---hey Rez my better half is not union--like 90% of the country

I hope that if Obama does one thing is that he gets us Universal Health---then we can all have what the unions have----thanks

Rez

If I get a government contract----I can then charge to have all union workers----that is a good thing----I get paid enough to do what is right by the Unions-----but where does the government get the money to pay me-----from middle america----taxes and what not-----they have just paid me an amount of money for a project that could have been done for less-----where does the diff in price go to----the union bosses no?

Rez
]
Haven't talked to you in a while----Im glad that you did-----thanks for the chat---any time---I was just going to say something about my, way of putting things,,,but I better not ---I'll get scolded.

Solar,

Most here support unions. We wouldn't be having much of this dsussion had the ReThugs (Reagan-Bushies) not gone after the middle class and unions over the past 30 years. It all about union busting. The cars makers wouldn't be hurting so bad if the housing and credit and War/Oil problems not flared mainly due to Repug policy.

What is ABC out of their minds?!!!

I've had 4 children- 1 cesarian, 3 naturally (not my intention, had them to quick to be given medication). They were some of the best days of my life, truly sublime. ABC seems to be confused-the orgasms are at the beginning of the whole life cycle. Such a great joy that is close to impossible to convey after the birth, but nothing even close to orgasmic about it.

Rez

It's a good discussion to have----but should have a new way of looking at things--every so often----like I said about 15-17 years ago The United Steel Workers, would not give an inch---they said no to a reduction,,or a stay of pay----well West Indiana and east east Chicago is a ghost town----have to stop picking sides,,,in everything that we do---the us against them is always a winner for the team owners--( the ones that pit us one against the other)just saying??thanks

"She's a wise woman, but I'm not surprised, look who she married!"

BRB, Damn, I knew I needed to remind her of something.
and have a beer or two while I do. :-)

Osh

4 children----and you look so young---------my turn to flirt :-)))

Ha , but thanks Solar, could use a little flirt tonight. Felling a little old and lonely tonight. Just a bit of the holiday blues I guess.

Solar- afterthought- how do you know what I look like?

I don't---but----but if I was looking for a nurse or a purse it would be you---hahahaha----you are good looking from the inside---thats what I can see from here

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/12/obama-joins-the-blagojevich-fr.html#comment-181863

OSH

The same way he knew I was 6'3, he can see through the internet tubes. Don't be blogging in the nude.
;-)

Jack

Jack ----if I had a bud in my hands ---you would owe me one----big belly laugh-------you are almost as big as Lard---x ray vision my friend---x ray vision------Osh don't pay any attention to him----go ahead

Solar- thanks, don't make a good nurse though, freak at the sight of blood, but I do make a good chicken soup for sickly ones.

Jack- LOL, I'll try to remember that!

You two are funny, thanks for the laughs.

OSH-Solar likes to peek at facebook pictures. He's right about you looking so young, though.

Nope---never seen a face book until yours---Jack is right, I can see thru the tube

Hi Rosie the cat on the hot tin roof

Rosie

wanna dance?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsnqJgxTZgE#

Oooo-I like that song. I have a really good one. This guy went around the world and found musicians to do 'stand by me' . They have on headphones so they can hear the other people he recorded. It's really nice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_A_ma2h0idk

Rosie---stand by me is great,,,and that version---booked it---just cos I liked it so much here

Same singers----diff pace---its toward the end of the night

kinda make or break u kinda song

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-b7w2qRbZg&feature=related#

Oh geez, could someone tell Jesse Jackson Jr. to shut up about himself and his great credentials for a while? He's acting like a drama queen, blowing the situation of him being "candidate number 5" way out of proportion. In the process, he keeps describing what a great legislator he is and how he is the "most qualified" to take Obama's seat. Given the threats he made against old veterans of the civil rights movement who had endorsed Hillary, I think he lost his moral superiority long ago. Too bad that he makes it all about him. Frankly I think he's a snake, but I can understand him trying to make it clear he was not involved in a pay to play scheme. But it seems he is more busy showing his great "morality" to the people of Illinois in a backhanded way of still showing that he looking to move to the Senate.

ET-what do you mean 'acting'.

Solar, in Belgium wages are set by the age of the worker, the level of experience, and by the union that represents their trade. Wages are determined via discussions from various stakeholders, including: government, small business, unions, large business etc. Wages are not negotiated beyond this. It's an interesting system and it seems to work well.

LOL Rosie !

Well--ET there you have it-----it's like I have---scratch that it' s like you and I have been saying all along----a little of both isms ....a little capitalism,,,,,,,a little socialism-----thank you for the info

ET----as a matter of fact---I do like that system------if you don't want to further yourself trhu an education,,,or some kind of career training ---you know where you stand---the educated ones are not doing it for you-----but this is probably helped by the fact the you have universal healthcare no??

Several years ago, a bunch of us at work expressed an interest in touring the Chrysler assembly plant that we shipped to. Our supervisor then informed us that he and a few other supervisors were gonna get to tour the Chysler assembly, but not the rest of us. When they got back from the tour, I asked my boss how it went. He said, "Our plant isn't involved with the UAW. We're non-union. The Chrysler plant is part of the UAW. They were in the process of UAW contract negotiations with Chrysler while we were there. One guy walked up to us and said, "Get the f-ck out! You're not union members!" I guess it wasn't a good thing to have non-union workers walking around their union plant. That kind of ended my hopes of visiting the assembly plant.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/12/obama-joins-the-blagojevich-fr.html#comment-181666

Hey Solar
I'm so sorry you have had bad experiences with unions.I come from Flint,Michigan, birthplace of the UAW and GM.I have been a member of the UAW most of my life and I'm so thankful to my union!! I have most of what I have because of them and my hard work!!! I marvel at those who throw stones at unions and wish for there total demise(Ping Pong), were down to like 10% unionism in this country,can you explain to me how the average US worker is better off in wages and benefits without unions????

“Orgasmic Birth”

I don't think so.

Obviously written by men or childless women.

tt

tony, I've always been a union member. Texas is NON-union. It's a right to work state which means it's a right to NOT work.

Texans serve at their employers' leisure.

Recently we were directed to input into a complex data base what we do all day everyday by minutes.

We were told, "It's non negotiable."

OH, how I miss having some, any, protection and collective bargaining with the "the man".

tt

Marijuana-induced psychosis?

http://www.freep.com/article/20081212/NEWS06/81212110

A process which led from the amoeba to man appeared to the philosophers to be obviously a progress though whether the amoeba would agree with this opinion is not known.
--Bertrand Russell

south carolina here......I've worked loads of jobs.......drilling holes in the ends of wooden co-cola crates, US naval shipyard pipefitter, Air Force Base mail and file clerk, Bindery in two printing companies, construction of houses, concrete manholes, great buildings, un-real kitchen cabinets.......et fo cetera.....never been in but one union........the nashville moo-jicians union.......it felt right nice to be in the same book with chet atkins...............that and up north they ask you for your union card........sometimes.......

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/12/obama-joins-the-blagojevich-fr.html#comment-181795

Oh Solar, Christmas is the most wonderful, magical time of the year. i just did all my American Christmas shopping via the KOHL's website. I always decorate my living room... this year a little late for my taste. I have Christmas music on my iTunes and I watch and re-watch all the Christmas classics. `Last year Mauro and I even had our pic taken with Santa at Macy's in downtown Minneapolis. Growing up in the suburbs of the Twin Cities, I remember well going there each year. It brought back a lot of wonderful memories and even some tears that the tradition was not ended when Dayton's was taken over by Marshall Field then taken over by Macy's.

Christmas! I love the season; I love the shopping, I even love going to a Christmas eve church service... LOL... At least this year I am down 50 lbs so I cannot be accused of being Santa without the red suit ;-)

Oh yeah, one of the great Christmas albums for kids is Christmas with the Chipmunks Vol 1 and 2. I am sure my Mom and Gram got sick of me playing that all the time :-)

blago
http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/politics/2008/12/11/10-things-you-didnt-know-about-rod-blagojevich.html
mrs. blago
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2008/12/12/2008-12-12_mrs_blagojevichs_daddy_comes_to_her_defe.html

et, 12 days of christmas in india just for you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owK5tHjL0aE&feature=related

Shaun Donovan appointed HUD Secretary

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/13/AR2008121300590.html

I've always been a union member. Texas is NON-union. It's a right to work state which means it's a right to NOT work.
Texans serve at their employers' leisure.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/12/obama-joins-the-blagojevich-fr.html#comment-181884

Hi tiptoe,
I was surprised to read your post, because for some reason I didn't know that Texas is a non-union state. That it's a right to work state. You do realize that the economy here in Texas is going strong, compared to most other states, right? And some of the states with the biggest unions are in bad shape. Now this is just a simple, spur of the moment observation. I'm not against unions. But objectively speaking, I find this fact pretty interesting. That and that there's usually plenty of work available here. Maybe there's other explanations. I haven't had time to think about it yet.

"OH, how I miss having some, any, protection and collective bargaining with the "the man".

tt"
Tip
What another wonderful statement and so true!!! I wish everyone could have the protections on the job that I have had because of the UAW.Its a blessing knowing someone has your back....

Where I've lived in the South, people are convinced that unions are inventions of the Devil. Darned shame; well run unions could help both the employee and the employer.

oops, Tony, Good Morning.
Hope I didn't annoy you with my observations. :)

"well run unions could help both the employee and the employer."

Yes Flatus.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/12/obama-joins-the-blagojevich-fr.html#comment-181896

"You do realize that the economy here in Texas is going strong, compared to most other states, right? And some of the states with the biggest unions are in bad shape."

Good morning all,Chloe
I agree with your observation but I just don't know through data that's its because of unions! I have said here many times that union membership is down so low in this country and I don't see where the average worker is better off in wages or benefits(medical insurance).I live in Florida and this is a right to work state,I see the economy here as so much better than in Michigan(more jobs) and wages are so much lower also and guess what the cost of living here is no different!! SAD really......

Tony, tt and chloe -- My dad was always at his funniest when he admitted to a belief that made no sense whatsoever. And he almost always admitted to it.

On being a farmer and a Republican: "The Democrats are the only bunch I've ever seen do anything for the American farmer. And I I still wouldn't vote for one of those SOBs."

On having been a munitions plant union member in LA during the war. "I can't stand those damned unions. Oh, they'll keep the bosses from killin' you -- but I can't stand 'em anyway."

"I just don't know through data that's its because of unions!"

Me either Tony. And I'm not a very good detail person. (I usually look more at the big picture)

Tony, When you said sad, you're talking about what's happened to Michigan, right?

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/12/obama-joins-the-blagojevich-fr.html#comment-181902

Patsi, I would have really like your father.

Chloe
You could never annoy me!! I think your observations are good and worth thinking about always!! I work with Grace(a card carrying Republican) and she is very anti-union.I respect all opinions and think about them just like you do.I have been dealing with anti-union sentiment my whole working life as I started with GM when I was 18.I was called a low class shop rat by some who were mainly just pissed off because we made better pay and benefits than them (non union of course)! I have worked in non union work places here in Florida in the 80's while I was lay-ed off from GM,but guess what I always went back when the economy turned around because of my union the UAW...

It's going to worsen in TN if the Saturn plant closes....that's the only reason that little weasel Bob Corker made a halfassed "stand" toward the end of the auto hearings...he suddenly remembered that Saturn was here long before Nisson.

Tony, When you said sad, you're talking about what's happened to Michigan, right?

That's right Chloe! I was back in Flint 3 years ago and it was so depressing I could not get out of there fast enough!!

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/12/obama-joins-the-blagojevich-fr.html#comment-181906

Thank you Tony. :)

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/12/obama-joins-the-blagojevich-fr.html#comment-181902

Patsi your dad sounds like a great,just like you!!!

"I was back in Flint 3 years ago and it was so depressing I could not get out of there fast enough!! "

It was getting bad in California when we left in the early 90's too. At least for our trade. And jobs were hard to come by.

My only direct understanding of unions comes from Cleveland. Our family business was a large regional contractor. My father, especially, maintained an activist involvement in the carpenters union as a trustee of the pension fund.

There, the carpenters union had an excellent apprentice program that was essentially a three way partnership between the aspiring carpenter, union classroom trainers, and the employer. The apprentice was paid a relatively low wage. But, once journeyman status was achieved, employers were assured that the employee was a competent carpenter and worth the full wage.

The pension and health funds were managed directly by the unions with contributions (negotiated in their contracts) split between the employee and the employer. The benefits were portable throughout Ohio. I think it was State Street Bank in Boston that was custodian of the portfolio. Trustees of the funds were representatives from both union members and management. I thought it was a very effective system.

I've heard other people say that the construction trades in other areas of the country had dysfunctional unions. That's too bad because, if it's a genuine partnership, really good things. both socially and economically, can result.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/12/obama-joins-the-blagojevich-fr.html#comment-181915
"Legacy costs of course play their part in the mix, but then again in most countries their are no legacy costs due to universal health care."

Yes I did.Grace does agree that Bush and the Republicans have had excesses in spending (not tax cuts of course there sacred) and that its been terrible for the country. I have also tryed to explain your point about legacy costs as a way to further prove the need for National Health-care and her response is this country can't afford it and my response is this country can't afford not to have Health-care for all...Go Obama and any one who seeks to give it to us....

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/12/obama-joins-the-blagojevich-fr.html#comment-181917

"I've heard other people say that the construction trades in other areas of the country had dysfunctional unions. That's too bad because, if it's a genuine partnership, really good things. both socially and economically, can result."

Posted by: Flatus | December 13, 2008 9:51 Am

Flatus
Thanks for your post! I agree.When I first started with GM the union and management were adversaries but after the downturns in the 80's things started changing for the better.The UAW and GM management started working together and in return the quality of the product has gotten to be on par with our competitors...I bet GM would agree that they like there unions too...

Excellent roundtable from Human Rights Day on foreighn policy with emphasis on Middle East led by George Stephanopoulos on CSPAN, but available in their library

http://inside.c-spanarchives.org:8080/cspan/cspan.csp?command=dprogram&record=568052240

For us wonky types it is well worth the time.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/12/obama-joins-the-blagojevich-fr.html#comment-181802

ahem, ahem... As a total CHER FAN-A-TIC, I have always found her a compelling singer. She is my favourite singer to this day.

But yes, she proved her mettle by getting cast in the Broadway play "Come Back to the Five and Dime Jimmy Dean, Jimmy Dean" followed by a supporting role in Silkwood, where she was nominated as "Best Supporting Actress". She was shut out of the nominations when many were suggesting she would get the nod for her role as Rusty Dennis in "MASK" but the Hollywood elite still did not consider her a serious actress. ... Cher was so pissed she went to the Oscars a year later wearing an outfit that many called "appropriate for the bride of Darth Vader"... Cher cleverly commented "as you can see, I have consulted my academy handbook on how to dress as a serious actress".

In 1987 she starred in 3 different movies... "Suspect", "The Witches of Eastwick" and "Moonstruck"... Cher was nominated as Best Actress for "Moonstruck" and won the academy award.

The Unions and corps..are in bed together when it comes to the workers----whenever there was any thing wrong, and you needed a rep---he was always in cahoots with the company-----the company,,,and the Unions kept you at bay until you gave up, about you problem with them,,,I still want to know how the $ is spent,,and all the paper trail of it to see if it does ,,,the workers the most good that is should-----If the union bosses are making way above the workers pay rate etc etc,,,I would be will to be that they are no diff than the Republicans ..in that matter?????thanks------thats my last word on all of this,,,,sorry if I offended any of you ----that is never my intention----these Unions need to watched just like any other money making machine---that takes in money and promises you every thing.....They should have term limits just like the other politicians??

HI Solar
Oh my no, you didn't offend anyone I'm sure.I love hearing your point of view on unions and I have seen the very same thing happen with some union bosses,I guess you have to take the good with the bad if your apart of any organization.I feel that at the end of the day were so much better with unions,yes there's abuse like in every thing but for me its about the end result! I look at how the Democrats disappointed me during the primaries regarding Michigan and Florida but again at the end of the day I supported Obama for President because I felt the Democrats end result would be better for the country..Keep talking MR...Were your friends....

ET

It;s great that you like the Christmas hoilidays so much---when I was in advertising ---we started to make plans for christmas in July-----that soured me some----but when I found out the true story of Christmas it completely turned me off to it----then I took and interest of all holidays------they are all bogus----and just marketing tools ----did you know that it was against the Catholic Church---and a go to hell if you celebrated Christmas at one time---until they figured a way to make $---thats a very interesting story all about the marketing of getting into our heads (using children) and hearts, and making us feel guilty if we don't spend big,,,,,but the kids always win out in the end,,,and I do get into the mood cos of them,,,thanks

Cher ---has a huge fan in me-----not hr signing so much,,,but her acting----I used to like her in her show with Sunny-----always cracked me up (can u do that mouth and lip thing that she does----I bet you look in the mirror and practice,hahah) her singing not so much---but she is as big a show women as anyone else in the biz---thanks

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/12/obama-joins-the-blagojevich-fr.html#comment-181682

Ping, unfrickenbelieveable that you can say such a thing. The REPUGS have been anti-union from day one believing that the corporate leaders deserve the wealth and the rest can eat cake. I find your comments SHAMEFUL... seriously.

The attack on labor has been a number one priority for the REPUGS ever since the USA lost the war in Vietnam and American capital realized they could no longer bank on the post WWII economic formula of "Expansion Abroad + Growth at Home = Unified Interests". As long as the USA could go into 3rd world countries and extract their resources for American gain, there was little active opposition to the unions. Once American Capital saw this pipeline shut down by the war's loss, the attacks on Labor and Labor unions intensified. Carter, ironically, opened the door to the first direct attack on labor by the Chrysler bailout which required unionized workers to take pay and benefit cuts. Seeing how easy it was to make labor capitulate to the corporate masters, the Reagan administration took this further and when Air Traffic Controllers refused to back down and went on strike, the old jerk fired the whole bunch of them. There is a War against labor in the USA. Repugs have also been extremely effective in putting out the ridiculous statement that "well unions were good in their day..."

The only was to perserve a working balance between the workers and the employers is to unionize all workers into unions that are trade or professional based, rather than company by company. Furthermore, a law to forbid American companies to pack up and leave for 3rd world countries to exploit workers would make pittance as a salary in unsafe working conditions and low or absent environmental protections. When do you raise you voice and express disdain about THIS Ping? Honestly I just don't get your lot at all....

Thought for the day :
" When all else fails, read the directions. "

Tom
Love Cher!
I'm going to watch her "Farewell Tour"DVD again now,Thanks...

actually, I can sing a little but I trained my voice in a similar style as Cher's... true story... so I have to fight that habit... LOL

‘Day the Earth Stood Still’: Klaatu barada stinko
Pointless remake of the sci-fi classic is loaded with unintentional laughs

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28166691/

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/12/obama-joins-the-blagojevich-fr.html#comment-181928

Tom
Oh Man,this has to be one of my all time favorite comments..You just put all my feelings regarding union history and the real world reality here in the US beautifully!! Your Terrific....I'm listening to Donna Summers "Christmas Spirit" now as I right this and next CHER.........

A very young Cher singing HOMEWARD BOUND and a 1985 (?) Cher release of "Do I Ever Cross Your Mind" mixed with photo stills from her first film, Chastity. the second song is so beautiful..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbdNG0c8IaA

ET-----I lied,---about not talking about unions----,what effect do you think if Universal Health is available for all Americans, will have on Unions-----I hope we get U H cos it will do two things----1--we all get U H---2---it will stop being the club that t he unions use, to keep people in line,,,,,and not so much cash that they can use for their own pockects????

1922 Rex Allen Wilcox AZ, cowboy actor

1577 Sir Francis Drake sets sail from England to go around the world
1774 1st incident of the Revolution-400 attack Fort William & Mary, New Hampshire
1903 Wright Brothers make 1st flight at Kittyhawk
1928 George Gershwin's "An American In Paris" premieres (New York NY)
1928 Clip-on tie designed
1961 Jimmy Dean's Big Bad John album is country music's 1st million $ seller

ET-----thank you for this post---I Knew that if there was civil conversation that I would learn something

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/12/obama-joins-the-blagojevich-fr.html#comment-181928

Reporting from Sacramento -- California regulators cracked down on diesel air pollution Friday, adopting the nation's toughest rules on heavy-duty trucks, despite pleas from truckers who said they would be bankrupted in a sinking economy.

The state Air Resources Board voted unanimously for the measure that requires truckers to retrofit or replace older rigs, starting in 2011. The board declared that the health benefits far outweighed the financial pain in a state that has the dirtiest air in the nation. Diesel trucks are responsible for a third of the smog in California.

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/california/la-me-diesel13-2008dec13,0,3112527.story

In Utah, the Parowan Prophet predicts disaster will prevent Obama from taking office

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-moment13-2008dec13,0,2231803.story

Thanks Tony and Solar... I am not so sure I was so civil as appalled at the continued attack on American labor and the organizations that support them. We have been fed this line by the corporate media since the early 70s and I just want to set the record straight. This is not to say there has not been corruption within union hierarchies, but they pale in comparison to corporate corruption. Frankly, I think when communities build up around industry thinking the companies will remain the anchor that keeps them together, only to see them pack up and leave and " too bad, so sad for you", then I think Democracy suffers. Then you have a corporately controlled plutocracy which controls the freedoms, economic stability and future hopes of the people whose lives they have destroyed by their own corporate insatiable wants to the point of exploiting labor in poor lands.

It's disgusting!

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/12/obama-joins-the-blagojevich-fr.html#comment-181939

Oh is THAT what GORDO looks like?

*ducks* ;-)

ET----sorry for pushing------what effect do think Universal Health will have on Unions?? you seem to have thought a lot about the Unions-----take your time,,,,,but if you do I would like to hear it.

Solar-I would have thought you'd get a kick out of the fact that most holidays are pagan with a Christian wrapping. I know I do. Holidays are great 'cos as a species, humans do love to party!

"I don't know what Sen. Vitter has against GM or the United Auto Workers or the entire domestic auto industry; whatever it is, whatever he thinks we've done, it's time for him to forgive us, just like Sen. Vitter has asked the citizens of Louisiana to forgive him, " said Johnson, president of Local 2166. Otherwise, Johnson said of Vitter, it would appear, "He'd rather pay a prostitute than pay auto workers."

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/248006.php

---------------------
On MSNBC this morning, Pat Buchanan called the Corker, Vitter, et al :

"Toyota Republicans"

Solar, all I can do is share how it works in Belgium. All working people MUST buy their own health insurance. Naturally it is subsidized but there is not a legal working person who does not have health care. I know that the costs for health care are factored into the annual discussion of wages and benefits between the small business union, the bigger companies, public workers, the unions and government to set wages on basis of industry, indexing for inflation, etc. All workers have a contract that they sign with the employer. Yes people can be fired, but you can't just do it without cause, except during the first 6 months where if you see someone is not working out, you can end their provisional contract. You still have to pay them for another week or two, but that's it. Health coverage is not lost when a worker loses his/her job but I believe social welfare system pays for it in the interim. My take on universal health care is that government will have to negotiate acceptable costs for prescriptions, basically controlling how much the pharmaceuticals can charge for their medicines. Our system requires a patient to first see their family physician. If the physician feels a specialist is necessary, he writes a letter of introduction for the patient to take to the specialist explaining why the physician feels this step is necessary. Going to the hospital is also by referral basis except, of course, in cases of emergency. Even then, workers have health insurance which keeps costs better in check. Doctors are also limited on how much they can charge for services, just like workers have set wages based on negotiations. Frankly, without this control system, I am not clear how universal healthcare can keep costs under control...

One thing that is important to know about Belgium and other European countries, is the right to strike. There are MANY strikes. It's sometimes a big inconvenience, but often good comes from it. Lately it has been bus drivers and other public transport workers who have found themselves being assaulted by young thugs and demand NOT MORE MONEY, but better security on the buses. Often the strikes have to do with safety... job security, and if prices go to high, purchasing power.

So in my long winded way, I think that it's all part and parcel of the entire economic model... It can only be sustained if all the parts work in accordance with each other. Labor, government, health services, unions, corporations, small businesses, public workers, etc. etc. etc.

Ok am off to buy a newspaper and make off to the bank...

Oh yeah, I am finally receiving my belgian permanent i.d. card and the next step will be to seek Belgian nationality...

Cheers.

Rosie

Yes---and with tv----and us in advertising ---it really took off,

I don't give Chirstmas cards---i write letters and notes( my friends and family ---know how to get the message intended ---just like you guys/gals do ) for valentines ,,,and other such holiday's I don't do anything at all----but when all is calm --and nothing is pushed down my mouth-----I make nice present, or some gift a part of going to the movies ,,and then dinner or something else-----I took my wife once to an afternoon fashion show----she is not the type to go to one of these things so she was very surprised that she ended up in one,,,,,,well I gave her a set of earrings and a necklace, that I saw at a one of a kind type of store,,,,,,it came,,,,,I also got a present for myself at that fashion show-------nice little cow girl nighty that she still blushes when she wears it for me----not any more cos its so old,,,,this year she will not get anything for christmas-----going to take her for a walk and find something buried in the ground----and it aint going to be expensive---she is great about that -

ET----Thank you---I now know t hat I am on the right trail-------in the system that you just described ----I'm 100 % union label----and your at your best when you are long winded----and you don't even come close me ----and a nice lady,,,who I won't mention (Behty---shhh) I find that is the only way for me to get a thought across----Patsi,,,and others are very good in using short sentences -----what I do regret is that I an posting so much ,, and people like Sturg ,,,a lot less----Flatus started to post more ---and I have learned a little from him,,,maybe it's t ime for me to pull back a little---gonna think about it,,,thanks for your very good answers to my questions.

Well, you know I'm an atheist, but I do enjoy the holidays. To me it is about family get-togethers, presents and eating and drinking WAY to much. They are special days. Now, I know you are going to say something about you don't need the church or the media to dictate what days should be special, but it is nice to have the tradition. No baby Jesus or stars for me, but lots of Santa and snowmen, and warm, fuzzy memories.

Rosie

agreed------and I will be going to church ---with some family ----it is very emotional and bonding for all-----but when I listen to the priest,,,,,all I hear is a sales speech----when I look at the people there,,and myself-----thinking that we have just enabled them to manipulate us by just being there----I like what you said----and that what I try to make the Holidays----family reunion days-------but so they really need such motivations to have a family get t ogether ----I think that any given Tuesday, or Saturday,,, that is not a holidyay is as good as any Hallmark Holiday------but then again----I think all days are Holidays-:-))

CNN---right now on all of Obamas economic promises ---looks pretty good

Solar
You so funny! "Cowgirl nightie" my funny belly laugh for the day!

When the priest starts spouting crap, I either mentally argue back, or drift off into a favorite sexual fantasy. Either is enough to keep me sane while I sit there.

Tony------that wasn't meant to be funny---whats the matta u

feel pretty good --gonna hit the bowflex and a good run today---inside on----in the spring I want to get a stair eliptical machine that does both in the same aciton---the bow flex people are very professional ---after the warranty expired they still sent out a part that wore out and needed replaced--------I will have product loyalty cos of this----what are you doing today---don't fall in any 60 plus degree pool water today,,,you luck dog you :-))

Rjosie

Like that song in Grease----tell me more---tell me more

-http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/12/obama-joins-the-blagojevich-fr.html#comment-181966

Recession proof gov jobs on CNN now

Sorry, work calls. You'll just have to make up your own. ;-)

Hey Solar
I've been doing house cleaning.I'm cleaning the pool too,leaves from all my flowers.I love the eliptical trainer my gym has its by Stairmaster.I also have a good one here where I Live at Coral Trace gym,its a Cybex.I have to head to the gym soon to work off some goodies I have enjoyed this am...

Hey Sea
OMG,thanks for my Fudge,heavenly, and the peanut butter...WOW WOW.Beautiful packaging.Thanks also for your special hand written note to me.I think about the things you wrote to me all the time and feel lucky..Your sweet just like your chocolates..

The Black Hole War: My Battle with Stephen Hawking to Make the World Safe for Quantum Mechanics
Author: Leonard Susskind

On c-span book tv---12 a m sunday

Date & Time Episode Get More
HIST 120 Sat, Dec 13
9:00 PM Crash: The Next Great Depression? New Record with TiVo
HISHD 120 Sat, Dec 13
9:00 PM Crash: The Next Great Depression? New Record with TiVo
HIST 120 Sun, Dec 14
1:00 AM Crash: The Next Great Depression? Record with TiVo
HISHD 120 Sun, Dec 14
1:00 AM Crash: The Next Great Depression? Record with TiVo

The 2008 economic crisis is examined and contrasted with the 1929---stock market crash --and the treat depression that followed.

National geographic channel has on now --a look at different methods scientists use to study the origins o the Solar system----they will never figure me out ----totally

hey guys, new thread