Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Good Morning everyone!

What more could the GOP do at this point? Since they lost so badly in the general and seemed to make a hard-fought rebound on their own turf in GA, still fighting in MN to protect an incumbent, they have little choice but to look ahead for happier times for themselves.

permanent campaign - ugh !

My email inbox this morning -

From the desk of T. Boone Pickens

Boone here,

We’re six weeks out, and it feels like Inauguration Day is right around the corner. One thing’s for sure: our efforts are really starting to pay off. Let me give you a couple of examples.

Yesterday in New York City the Pickens Plan got another big endorsement. This time it was from the American Lung Association. Think about that. Here we’ve been talking about how developing renewable energies and using cleaner burning natural gas is good for our economy and creates jobs. Come to find out the Pickens Plan is good for your health! I love it. New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg was also on hand. He’s been a real leader in using renewables and compressed natural gas in his city. I’m glad to have him on our team.

I also want to bring up my visit to Washington last week where I met with the Obama Transition Team. Like everyone else, I’ve been impressed with the way the President-elect has been preparing for his new administration. My father used to tell me, “A fool with a plan can outsmart a genius with no plan any day of the week.” Let me tell you: the Obama team is smart, and they have a plan. The President-elect wants to get us off Middle Eastern oil in 10 years. There’s only one way he can do that, which is why I’m confident that the Pickens Plan will play an important part in the stimulus package he and his team are crafting right now.

I know President-elect Obama is ready to make some big changes. Let’s make sure Congress is too. The Army is 1.37 million strong. Now we need to get ready in every Congressional district, and I need your help.

Over the next couple days you'll be hearing from Team Pickens about the District Leaders project - I need members of the Army to play a leadership role in their own Congressional districts. Click here to learn more and to sign up to volunteer.

I want you to join me in leading the New Energy Army as we take the Pickens Plan to DC next year!

T. Boone Pickens

HI C-Bob -- I'm with you on the permanent campaign. I've already started working on 2009. In states where we have elections every year, there is no rest!

good morning, ms diva. you're sounding chipper.

pogo, the links below are to pick your lawyer brain. hope it's not too early.
1. are tapes enough to convict discussion
http://www.federalnewsradio.com/?nid=80&sid=1545812
2. your opinion on this parody re futuristic rights arguments (repost from yesterday)
http://www.sjgames.com/pyramid/sample.html?id=3004

Hello Patd -- How are you this am?

Good question about the tapes, but I'm sure they will also have witnesses who will testify that Blago confronted them with pay to play.

cbob, good morning to you too. just used your name in vain last thread in this response to patsi:

"And can somebody tell me the downside of using that whole wind corrider through Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas and Eastern Colorado?"

patsi, i hope it's not true or at least, if it is, the planners will use the knowledge to plan with foresight; but somewhere i read that that corrider is also a major migratory path.... for monarch butterflies? birds? can't remember. cbob might know. as i said i hope they consider this in setting them up.

cbob? help?

"permanent campaign - ugh !"

Ditto that "ugh"...

Washington Post has a story about how Homeland Security Sec. Michael Chertoff uses undocumented immigrants to clean his house for the last four years. Chertoff is the top immigration enforcement officer in the Bush Administration. How did they get through the background checks?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/10/AR2008121003524.html

Aha -- thanks for the info, patd....since the expanse of land is so huge, do they not know exactly what track the birds take? As you said, consider the migratory patterns.

Thought for the day :
" When in doubt, make it sound convincing. "

1843 Robert Koch German bacteriologist (TB, cholera, Nobel 1905)
1926 Big Mama Thornton blues singer (Ball & Chain, Stronger than Dirt)
1944 Booker T Jones US organist (Booker T & MGs-Green Onions) [or Nov 12]

1620 103 Mayflower pilgrims land at Plymouth Rock
1917 13 black soldiers hanged for alleged participation in Houston riot
1961 Elvis Presley's "Blue Hawaii" album goes to #1 & stays #1 for 20 weeks
1961 "Please, Mr. Postman" by Marvelettes, released
1967 Beatles' Apple Music signs its 1st group-Grapefruit

“A fool with a plan can outsmart a genius with no plan any day of the week.”

thanks t. boone.... that explains a lot about the messes we're in today. fools with plans.

In the NY TImes op/ed section, Gail Collins invites readers to indulge in some schadenfreude over the Blagojevich circus. Try as I might, I can't work up to it. Even the day Nixon left office, I remember thinking that as much as I wanted it to happen it was a damn sad end to a damned sad situation in the country.

Oh, good -- Tennessee did not make the top six corrupt state list!

Got up early this morning with anticipation, ran to the back window, turned on the lights outside. Ahhhhh. The yard coated with soft snow and flurries falling. A very rare sight here in SW La. It won't last long but it is special.

Got to get ready for work.

Patd -
The central flyway would be the most likely route affected, but the wind techs don't report bird deaths. That is, there's a lot of these farms now. And they're just not producing evidence of bird strikes. Glass windows in sky scrapers are more dangerous to birds.
I saw a report on bats being affected, something about pressure affecting them, I think Jamie may have posted one about that. But I find it questionable.
Here's some folks who actually work on them , you can contact them, and ask -

"Top of The Turbine" - Wind Techs Group

http://push.pickensplan.com/group/topoftheturbinewindtechsgroup

thanks cbob. here are two links re monarchs flyways

http://www.monarchbutterflyusa.com/Migration.htm

http://www.fs.fed.us/global/employee_resources/marketing/pubs/4_monarch_butterfly_program_080309.pdf

hate to think the cost of toasting my morning muffin was the toasting of a species.

ct -
Snow on the road in SW La.

That'll be some amature hour going to work this morning.

"here in SW La"

I'm envious, Carol -- you live in God's Country.

pirates meet w

"The United States on Wednesday circulated a draft United Nations Security Council resolution on the issue. It proposes that all nations and regional groups cooperating with Somalia's government in the fight against piracy and armed robbery "may take all necessary measures ashore in Somalia."

The proposal marks one of the Bush administration's last major foreign policy initiatives."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5g6ovEYnh-5OJmt106FLTzdG-9eeQD950C8C80

Patd -
None of our choices will be "good", just some will be better than others. I'd rather have a wind farm at Goodland, Kanas, than a drag line at the Black Thunder mine.

sorry, president w....

another fool with a plan, t boone?

"The Taking of Pellam 1-2-3" was on last night. No movie ever ended better than Walter Matthau looking back into that apartment of Martin Balsam's.

now this is taking "the method" a bit too far. stanislavski never taught it this way.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/dec/11/actor-slits-throat

"People at the station are gobsmacked," she added. "This is a different league to protesters chaining themselves to equipment."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/dec/11/kingsnorth-green-banksy-saboteur

gobsmacked?

Barbarosa (1982) - Can't Kill A Ghost

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ei2ET4YkcQ8

Republicans are in trouble only because Obama is continue to move to the Right direction !
So nice twist attempt....

How it happens and who makes it happen - Who cares....
Bigger part to this post needs to go back to the Left that is being Leftout!!

They aren't even letting the little kids out of school today. Bah humbug. They used all the snow days for hurricane days.

I thought Obama was supposed to bring back the Communist Party ?

I can't even get my dish network because the dish is covered. What do people do where it snows all the time? And yes, the police just announced there are crashes around town especially on the overpasses.

Cbob.. He has lots of time... Maybe the Centric move is just another big fluffy move ...

Which Obama shows and stays?

He has a new reality

good morning gang....

Carol.... you've got snow..... I'm jealous..... the weather people keep threatening us with it, but all we get is ice....

ditto, ditto on the permanent campaign ugh....

CBob.... thanks for posting the Pickens email...
someone on this blog last week claimed he was only in it for the money....
to which I want to say....... SO WHAT..... it's called entrepreneurialship....

when someone sees a need and takes a risk who cares if it's for money when it can benefit mankind.....
anyone want to begrudge Henry Ford for coming up with the idea of building an affordable car that the average person can buy.....
anyone want to begrudge Ted Turner for coming up with the idea of a cable news channel....

I say..... GO T Boone!.... come up with some solutions AND make millions...

Someone, I think it was Euro Tim posted an item about the Bush White House issuing a memo entitled, "Speech Topper on the Bush Record" which was distributed to all political employees of the administration. The talking points painted a rosy picture of an unqualified success of the Bush presidency. Now the same memo is being filtered to the kool-aid drinking masses to write LTEs such as this one in my local bird cage liner.
http://fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2008/122008/12112008/430611

Virginia and Oregon aren't on the corruption list either -- buncha boy scouts....

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/12/2010-begins.html#comment-181208

Carol...
what do people do where it snows all the time?....

I think people with dishes have problems up here too.... we have cable....
as for driving..... we have weather tires on our cars..... a lot of us have 4-wheel or all-wheel drive..... but the most important thing is that we have experience in driving on snow.... we know enough to drive much slower in snow..... but we have accidents too..... especially with ice....

I see the most corrupt state list stops at #35..... I didn't see NH on the list....

RR -
Pickens is going to push for that 10 year production tax credit. The risk capital will follow, if we would just do that.
I expect the singing lumps of coal to fight like hell over it.

The DOE pick -

Chu was one of three scientists who shared the Nobel Prize for physics in 1997 for work in cooling and trapping atoms with laser light. He's a professor of physics and molecular and cell biology at the University of California, Berkeley, and has been the director of the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory since 2004, where he has pushed for research into alternative energy as a way to combat global warming. It is the oldest of the Energy Department's national laboratories, doing only unclassified work, and in recent years under Chu has been at the center of research into biofuels and solar technologies.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28164113/
----------------------
I didn't have it written in stone, but there's the reason I voted for Obama. I believed he'd pick people like Chu, for the DOE.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1208/16470.html

"GOP may seek Bill Clinton's testimony"

"But there’s nothing usual about Bill and Hillary Rodham Clinton, and some Senate Republicans may relish the thought of putting Washington’s ultimate power couple though the wringer before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee next month"

Good morning, Here is how one popular upstate journalist feels about the Caroline appt.
"What are Caroline Kennedy's Senate qualifications?"

http://timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=748709&category=LEBRUN&BCCode=&newsdate=12/10/2008

I'd love to see old bill up against those guys.....

In the 80's we had the gasahol folks wanting to wean us from foreign oil by turning corn into fuel. It was a short sighted plan that ended up driving up the price of food. Now we have a "plan" to turn home heating fuel into fuel for our cars.
lol
Pickens is a huckster, playing the American environmental movment like a fiddle. The Pickens folks talk about Natural gas being cheap and plentiful when in fact it is neither.
If natural gas is so plentiful why have the prices been shooting up the last 5 years?
The supplies of natural gas are adequate to supply current needs and a natural increase but to have the change Pickens calls for will mean a shortage for the home heating market.

Remember while Pickens is investing in wind energy, his heart and money is in petroleum and he has much more money tied up in natural gas.

Jack

great clip on "kill a ghost"

lol

Increases in Gasoline Consumption Are Kept to a Minimum by Recession

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122895520588496473.html

From the same link

"The 1999 national average residential price was $6.69 per thousand cubic feet (Mcf), while the 2006 average price was $13.75, which is more than double the 1999 price"

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/12/2010-begins.html#comment-181236

so Jack, is this documented somewhere and if it is could you post the links or is this just idle speculation from afar?

"GO T Boone!.... come up with some solutions AND make millions..."

I agree Renee -- I do think he's in it to make money -- but that's fine if it works.

Hey Jack, How are you? I hope you two are enjoying the holiday season!

WiskyJ -
You're wrong on several points about what Pickens is talking about.
But I'll just deal with one .

20% of U.S. electrical production comes from using natural gas. It's that 20% that Pickens proposes to replace with wind and solar. The natural gas diverted from electrical production would then be available for heavy transportation fuel.

I do think Jack's right that Pickens is the kind of maneuverer that needs to be watched....but right now we've got to explore every option.

And if gas drilling is needed, tell me why the big companies opted not to drill on land where my sister and I own the mineral rights, unless we sold those rights for pennies. When we refused, the companies moved on....I guarantee you, if they could do some kind of eminent domain deal and force us out, they would do it.

patd - that's all criminal law stuff - which I avoid like the plague. I will say that the charges are fantabulous, and the tapes are very sexy whether they prove the elements of whatever crime Fitz ends up charging him with. It's all about proving the elements of the crimes listed in the indictments, and we don't know what has and has not been done that breaks federal law yet. - and Fitz was talking in generalities and trying to convict Blago in the press. As prosecutors go I like Fitz OK, but I'm not overly keen on prosecutors as a species - they have a zealot gene in their DNA that I don't find particularly appealing. And I couldn't open the 2nd link cuz it's a game, and our filters stop them.

Conyers' health care proposal:

http://www.johnconyers.com/hr676faq

Hi all,
3 inches of snow last night in my neighbofhood in Houston. Took 20 min to thaw out the car and 1 hr to go 8 miles to the office.....this place definitely loses its appeal when the weather is like the NE....i've got trucks stuck everywhere and half need to go through the storm back to Birmingham.....hohoho

" In the 80's we had the gasahol folks wanting to wean us from foreign oil by turning corn into fuel. "

This is a complete misreading of what happened in the 80's. Nobody gave a rats fuzzy butt about foreign oil in the 80's . Oil went to $10 a barrel. I know I was looking for the stuff, and was out of work.

Gasohol in the 80's was introduced to increase the octane rating in reformulated gasolines, not as an alternative to gasoline.

Patsi,

I am by no means an expert on natural gas drilling and won't pretend to be but until the price at the well head got up in the $150 range a lot of the nat gas was considered to expensive to drill for. There have been a lot of new drilling technology that is now being used or have been used when gas and oil prices were at their highest this last summer.

As to your mineral rights problem, who knows.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/12/2010-begins.html#comment-181252

That's weird Jax.
We're nw of Houston, and it's dry, sunny, but cold.
(in the 70's this weekend though).

"As to your mineral rights problem, who knows. "

My sister and I know, TV -- it's big oil and corporate America trying to muscle farmers out of their way.

Chloe,
I'm in Clear Lake and we got nailed....every overpass iced over....closed.... impossible traffic over here...lots of wrecks....cars in ditches...

Patd -- Re the Monarch butterfly....I think their path has been changing for decades. When I was a kid growing up on the Plains....they were EVERYWHERE...you could sit outside during certain times of the year and they'd land on your hand...as the years went by you saw fewer and fewer...probably because of so much pesticide being used. I haven't spent any time out there in the last decade or so, and don't know if they are back or not.

Wow Jax. We lucked out.
We're about 60 miles nw of there. Stay off the roads if you can. It'll melt very quickly.

Barnett Shale rig report

New drilling sites operating in the Barnett Shale gas field for the week that ended Friday.

http://www.star-telegram.com/100/story/1078119.html

______________
As you look down this list notice the word "horizontal" , and notice the number of rigs running . This is the revolution that is underway in natural gas that I've been posting about.

Jack....
I won't debate you today..... a. I don't have the time.... b. I don't have any expertise on the subject....

all I know is that we need a solution to weaning ourselves off of oil..... it's a finite product and we need something that's renewable....

I don't think it will be easy.... and I'm sure that what happened to the price of food with gasohol and ethanol won't be the only unintended consequence to what looked like a promising idea.....

I will let you and CBob have the floor..... and I look forward to learning something as a spectator.....

Patsi,

I have friends and relatives in the area of what is called the Barnett Shale in Texas. Chesapeake Oil is the big player in this urban drilling scene. Once the oil company came in and wanted to drill, after the city gave permission, the neighborhood associations started to negotiate with big oil. The associations that signed first got substantially less signing bonus than associations that signed later. The amount was based on how much of an acre the homeowner actually owned. Most of the lots there are considerably less than one acre. From what I was told most of the early associations signed for a bonus of $750 a city lot with a renew at 3 years for the same amount of money. There was also a 25% dividend, if that is the right word, for the production drilled in your area. Remember that there may be 1200 lots in your area so it would be 25% of 1/1200th. That bonus might buy you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

Chloe and Jax -- where are you from Montgomery or Lake Conroe? That's the area where my nephew lives.

TV -- the trouble with the deal we were offered was that no one admitted up front that there was a plan to drill...they tried to slide it by because we no longer lived out there....

I just don't trust those boys....

Patsi, we're about 12 miles south of Montgomery and Montgomery is about 10 miles (or less?) west of Lake Conroe.

Oh -- I'm talking about farmland acres, not city lots.

Patsi,
Those house on the lake are beautiful. The whole area is.
Montgomery goes right into a national forest.

Renee,
The environmental groups supporting oil alternatives like to make it appear that these alternatives are ready now and just need to be supported by the public to be viable.....the fact is that the public would support them wholeheartedly if these alternatives competed based on only one premise and that is PRICE......plain and simple.....The funny thing about it is that instead of using technology to drop the cost of the alternative source most of the environmental effort is centered around raising the price of oil through taxes and regulations to make the alternative source viable....

Patsi, please go to WSJ.com and check out the Churchill article. Seems like you and he have a lot in common in that every time he was out of money, he'd write a book. He was out of money often. :)

Patsi,
I'm near the coast on Galveston Bay....by NASA

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/12/2010-begins.html#comment-181266

Patsi,

I understand. just adding info with info I have some knowledge of. I do have a friend that lived in Wichita, Ks and his mom still lived on the family farm about 60 miles west of Wichita and they have made 3 or 4 wells on that property. Mom said she has plenty of money so she signed over the royalties to her 3 adult children. My friend now has the advantage of new wealth but also has some new tax problems he is learning to deal with.

the telegraph people fought the telephone people tooth and nail........
nothing new under the sun, the beat goes on and it's the american way.

Wow -- it's snowing in Galveston?

The gas bearing shale formations in the lower 48 -

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/energy_in_brief/images/charts/shale-map-small.jpg

Patsi,
I'm 25 miles north of Galveston....but it snowed 5 inches in Galveston 4 years ago. they were building snowmen on the beach.....We had a 5' snowman built last night......:)

Good for your friend's family on the gas deal -- wish I could say the same in our deal...oh well. I've never had any money, why upset the cart now????

Flatus -- very interesting article about Churchill's writing. That is also how George Jones came to have hundreds and hundreds of songs in vaults in Nashville. Back in his early stardom, he had a deal that paid around $2000 a song to record. So every time he got short he'd call Nashville and tell them to round up a bunch of tunes. Usually he didn't even know what they were until he was in the studio. Then he'd collect the check and head back to Texas....

I know now that there is no one thing that is true - it is all true.
Ernest Hemingway

I like to listen. I have learned a great deal from listening carefully. Most people never listen.
Ernest Hemingway

I love sleep. My life has the tendency to fall apart when I'm awake, you know?
Ernest Hemingway

The only other thought I have about Boone Pickens is that we should never forget his role in the swiftboat nightmare. For that reason, I might support his ideas if they seem sound....but I'll never really trust him not to be a viper.

"I love sleep. My life has the tendency to fall apart when I'm awake, you know?
Ernest Hemingway"

ROFL -- yes, I DO know!

Cbob

The eighties was a long decade

You are talking about the last part of the decade

those farm state senators are slick they run with the reason dejure.

From the horrors of foreign oil to clean air ethanol cures it all
Gas prices for the last 50 years
. http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/aer/txt/ptb0524.html

Jack

i dont know about T-Boo's plan.....and it's also a fact that I'll never have any say at all in anything to do with it except yaw-yaw about it to someone or other either here or there......but Mr T-Boo can go jump in the lake (so to speak) for his little "swift-boat" excursion, the old jerk......

Barnett Shale discoveries have been the template that every other shale formation in the world is now being examined by.
---------------
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnett_Shale

oops.....begone, ghost of ernest........lol

Don't forget that the first premise of T. Bones Plan to wean us off of middle east oil is....drill....drill....drill.....here. if we don't the rest of the plan doesn't have time to work

The eighties was a long decade -

Yes Jack yes they were. and your sweeping statements about them were mostly wrong. The oil crash happened in the first 3 years of the decade.

And your sweeping statements about natural gas are completely wrong.

Pogo -
Did you catch that Clean Coal Ad I posted ?

"20% of U.S. electrical production comes from using natural gas. It's that 20% that Pickens proposes to replace with wind and solar. The natural gas diverted from electrical production would then be available for heavy transportation fuel.

Cbob

There is his bait and switch. It ain't going to happen. In fact as we start getting serious about reducuing carbon just the oposite will happen. More electricity will be generated from natural gas. (Just working from memory from the research I did last weekend ) the cost per kwh of construction is more than a third cheaper. Cost of production is irrelevant to the utilities as they can pass on all fuel costs to the customers.

Jack

TraderJ -
Did anyone ever answer your question the other day about linking ?

Cbob

Look at the link before you open your mouth. gas didn't drop until 85

Jack

Cbob...yep....thanks

I think T. Boone Pickens is a monster! He provided much funding to the Swiftboaters smear campaign in the 2004 election.

" Cost of production is irrelevant to the utilities as they can pass on all fuel costs to the customers. "

The cost of production is irrelevant ? .......... Not where I come from.

Cbob

Another link to refresh your memory on crude oil prices in the eighties. As you are in Texas I selected the Texas prices.

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/f003048__3a.htm

Jack

WiskyJ
I was shot hole drilling in the early 80's as the whole thing crashed, and rigs and crews got stacked. Like I said nobody gave a rats fuzzy butt about imported oil in the 80's , and gasohol wasn't advanced as a solution to foreign oil.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/04/world_the_world0s_oil/img/5.jpg

BTW

To replace gasline with natural gas would require a doubling of production in natural gas.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/

the numbers are all on the DOE web site. They do require you to use the calculator.

Jack

Cbob

Where as I was farming in the early eighties and I know they were.

Jack

Later the wife is complaining about you all taking up my time.

And I hate to say this but she is right.

Jack

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/12/2010-begins.html#comment-181199

patd

The only environmental problem I've heard about are butterflies and bats. The butterflies in migration caught in the cross winds and the bats because it destroys their lungs. Not sure what the solution might be.

The butterflies are beatutiful and act to spread pollen and the bats are a major insect control agent. This one needs a fix of some sort.

This is from an industry magazine but it does discussthe butterfly issue

http://www.nrsi.on.ca/Publications/NRSI_NAW_EffectsOfWindTurbineOperationsOnButterflies_20Feb07_JEG.pdf

http://www.forbes.com/entrepreneurs/2008/12/10/melliennial-barack-obama-ent-manage-cx_sb_1209berglasmillennial.html

This is kind of an interesting article about entrepreneurship in the US. I'm not sure that I agree....I'm not raising my kids to think this way.

"I think T. Boone Pickens is a monster! He provided much funding to the Swiftboaters smear campaign in the 2004 election."

ET, I think "monster" is a little harsh (although I was appalled by the swiftboating),

Very few people are all bad or all good.

Parts of Picken's plan are very plausible in the short term. For instance, putting major fleet consumers of diesel on natural gas immediately.

And, then, he also points out the NIMBY aspects of the windmills. Like, who wants a 40-story (including height of blades) windmill outside their back door?

If you haven't listened to one of his presentations, try to sit through it, no matter how difficult. He's an old man; I think he is genuine in his affection for our country and the plight we are now in. I don't sense that he has a lot of hidden ulterior motives.

Here is some info on the bat mortality

http://www.fort.usgs.gov/BatsWindmills/

Pickens isn't talking about replacing gasoline with natural gas. He's talking about replacing diesel with natural gas. The heavy vehicle fleet.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/12/2010-begins.html#comment-181297

Oh that's just fricken hilarious jax...

Thanks Jamie -

Flatus,
You are right but tax incentives...... while treated by many as free money..... are really a cost like every other cost.......

Nice opening remarks from the President-elect. Like the comment about the Senate seat not belonging to any politician, but to the people of Illinois. Also like the statement about health care reform, "How can we not?"

Gobsmacked

http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-gob1.htm

"Because I heat with NG and live in a poor neighborhood that also does. I know what the large increases in gas prices have done to my neighbors. What the Pickens plan will do is increase the demand for NG, that means an increase in price."

Jack, I suspect the increase in NG prices is not so much because of increased NG demand, but is the result of a pricing model that looks at BTU equivalents of different fuels and then marks those prices to some arbitrary petroleum benchmark. The result--as oil prices rise, so does every oil-equivalent, regardless of demand.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/12/2010-begins.html#comment-181288

CB, I didn't, but if it's the singing coal chunks, I caught it last night on the tele. You are well aware that I am of the opinion that Clean Coal is a marketing, as opposed to a scientific concept. It's all I hear here - clean coal, clean coal, clean coal. Yeah, I agree that IF we are going to burn coal for elcetricity, and we are, scrub out the nitrogen and sulphur and try to figure out some way to deal withthe CO2. But mostly, go EnergyStar and turn off the light when you leave the room.

FWIW, I don't give a rat's ass whether Pickens profits from windfarms or not - if windfarms reduce the kws that are produced by burning up the stuff in the ground, I'm for it. And questioning his motives because he helped screw it up or he might make money for his heirs doesn't strike me as a legitimate discussion of the merits of his proposals. The underlying assumptions - that it will take increased domestic supplies of fuel while technology advances to the point that renewable energy sources and conservation can supplant a sufficient proportion of fossil fuel energy and reduce our overall demand for energy to reduce the CO2 load from manmade sources and reduce our dependence on foreign oil - seem hard to argue with. And inthe almost 60 years I've watched gthe world turn, I've come to notice that technology advances at something like the rate of investment in it, and 10 years doesn't strike me as an overly optimistic threshold for reaching a sustainable energy goal IF the investment, whether private or public, is sufficient to drive the R&D.

Flatus,
Just purchased non-tax diesel fuel for tugs today at $1.29/gal. There is a $1.10 difference between that and taxed highway diesel. It does indicate a continued decrease in diesel is on the way.

MEXICO CITY (Reuters) - Mexico will enforce a "zero tolerance" policy against logging that threatens to wipe out the monarch butterfly and will act to stop a rare and ancient oasis from drying up, President Felipe Calderon said on Saturday.

http://colorado-bob.blogspot.com/2007/02/butterflys-and-tractor-trailers.html

------------
An old butterfly story.

From last night's show: Craig Ferguson poking fun of Gov. Blago. It's pretty funny!

http://www.cbs.com/late_late_show/video/video.php?cid=583362809&pid=xhZ2gLyBJ3nN5OOkRtX5ma1UfSm2AaFm&play=true&cc=1

Pogo -
The "Clean Coal Ad "

http://www.thisisreality.org/

Pogo,
I agree with you regarding the 10 years...seems overly optimistic. But I do agree with his premise that we need to buy time until our technology reaches the ability to replace our dependence on hydrocarbons.
I don't know if his windfarms are the solution but so far, he's the only one that seems to have a step by step....not overly pie in the sky plan.....

I'm not crazy about the sight of windmills on the ridges of the forests, but hey, there's wind up there, right? And bats - they might eat mosquitos, and that's all well and good, but they also fly down my chimneys and wake up Mrs. P, who gets all panicky when they are flying around the room. Something about getting stuck in her hair I think. They learn the true meaning of the word endangered when they meet the strings of what Mrs. P refers to as my batmitton racket. I plan to cap those chimneys in the Spring, and hopefully the few bats that have met their doom in my bedroom will be the last, and those that haven't can go about their job of eating mosquitos so that they don't eat my blood.

Jax, I DON'T see 10 years as overly optimistic.

Thanks, Bob. Didn't see your link before, but have seen that ad. Like I said...

And I'm not sure T-Boone's the only one with a step by step plan, but he's the only one who's ponied up his own money so that we know what his plan is.

You say screen, I say cap - I am.

I was curious as to how Wind Farms would affect butterfly and bird migration (after reading what some said). I ran across this article that says they could affect the weather. If they can do that, then I guess they'll affect plenty other things as well. (?)

There's also has a 'Butterfly Effect' link, as well as others.

Environment
Wind Farms Could Change Weather
http://www.proxyprince.com/index.php?myspace_proxy=aHR0cDovL3d3dy5saXZlc2NpZW5jZS5jb20vZW52aXJvbm1lbnQvMDgxMTI2LXdpbmQtZmFybXMtY2hhbmdlLXdlYXRoZXIuaHRtbA%3D%3D

Pogo,
I think that when energy becomes more of a burden on individuals wallets then more action will be taken....for instance I've purchased a back-up generator that runs on natural gas. It's for hurricane backup but conceptually I can use it to leverage against my electricity provider. As energy gets more costsly maybe solar panels become an alternative. That happens for me when a 5-7 year payback becomes a reality.....it'll be that kind of progression....

Bob -- thanks for the butterfly story...and I think I told you some years back that your blog quotewas a favorite of my late sister Jo:

"We the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful."

Part II of the tar sands story from the BBC -

Canada's 'dirty oil' challenge

In April this year, about 500 migrating ducks on their way north landed in what looked like a large lake in western Canada.

It was not a lake, but a tailings pond - a store for toxic waste from the oil sands extraction process, made up of water, clay, sand, residual bitumen and heavy metals.

Most of the ducks died, killed by the slick of oil on the water's surface.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7763365.stm

jax, your take on market forces driving the development of energy sources is IMHO absolutely correct. Yep, gov't can help direct investment by offering incentives for development of "good" energy sources, I just hope that as we embark on this path the decisions about what is good energy are made based on science and not on marketing campaigns and campaign contributions to members of congress. OK, but I didn't say I expect that the deceions will be made on the basis of the science.

". As energy gets more costsly maybe solar panels become an alternative."

It's a shame that didn't become wide spread a long time ago.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/12/2010-begins.html#comment-181336

Pogo

It sounds like the bat fighting scene in The Big Chill

Canada has been increasingly requesting that US hunters take more geese during hunting season as they are severely damaging the tundra. They've allowed 'previously illegal" electronic calls to try to increase the kill here.

http://seagrant.uaf.edu/news/98ASJ/08.03.98_SnowGeese.html

"I think that when energy becomes more of a burden on individuals wallets then more action will be taken."

Basic psychology. Amazing the government hasn't learned to use it to our benefit more often.

Pogo,
That's the main problem with some of the alternatives as they are based on some global warming science that is being increasingly debunked....there are some however that show real promise and they are being driven by the fact that if successful they will be cheaper....

jamie, I figure it would be comical to anyone watching - and it was bound to have been funnier before I settled on the batmitton racket instead of a pillow. Actually it happens infrequently enough that it doesn't really bother me - however it looms much larger in Mrs. P's memory than it does in mine.

jax, I believe we're early in the fits and starts phase of alternative energy development. The dishonest science is on both sides of the issue.

chloe, your take on solar panels - even the old relatively inefficient ones that just preheated water going into the water heater - is a good one. I had a boss back inthe late 70s who built his own house, taking advantage of what energy saving features - primarily passive - were in vogue back then, and it was impressive how little NG use he had for heating and Elec. for cooling - and he couldn't even site his house optimally.

some global warming science that is being increasingly debunked.

TraderJ
This is the story arc that the Heartland Inst. has been shopping for years. They're the ones who took over from the Club For Growth.

Their M.O -
Find some little crumb of science, have an op-ed writer do an article about, and add plenty of op-ed yeast. Watch it rise.

Pogo,
There's alot of progress on lightweight inexpensive solar panels.....they are still out of most homeowners
thresholds but the gap is narrowing and basic economics are driving the innovation.

colorado Bob shoots, he scores.

Cbob,
I've never heard of them but I've often said that I think that the global warming emphasis set back the effort to control real pollutants like nox, sulfur dioxide, and others.....where we were really having an impact.

I have a 2400 watt power---inverter that is hooked up to a large bus engine battery ----that I hook up with a battery charger,,,that I hook into the wall outlet in my garage

This lets me run 2 refrigerators,,tv's, and a cpl more small appliances --------out on the field I can run 4--diff tools with this inverter,,,but this runs (feeds off) a gas running generator

I am very impressed with Obama's team with the picking of the Dept. of Energy------I trust that pickens plans and anyone else's will be scrutinized by a competent Physicist,---I will adopt a wait and see attitude,,,

I don't want to make up my mind on a good sales speech and pretty drawings--------I want to see what it does,,,,not what it is called,,,,,how can any ones plans be tested is what i would like to know,,then looking at the proof,,it is easy to except --or reject-----sure if they can have energy solutions ,,,let them make tons of $----but don't throw $ at them on just a promise of resolving anything---steady and deliberate is the way to go,,adjustments are made more easily ---IMO

We've burnt about one Trillion barrels oil since 1859, and God knows how many tons of coal, and yet this is always just brushed off as a small amount of carbon.
My favorite thing in the last year was the whole "solar system is cooling" argument .......

One planet we will never see a denier mention - Venus
95 % CO2 atmosphere, and 950 degrees on the surface.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/12/2010-begins.html#comment-181350

Chloe,

It is such a simple principle that I can't understand why politicians haven't discovered it as yet. I know they tend to be dense, but this one is a total no brainer.

If you don't want something - Tax It, punish it, make the consequences severe.

If you do want something - Don't tax it, encourage the action, and give a reward

The main motivation of the human species is self interest. We really are the "If it feels good, do it" crowd.

Solar,

if you follow IH 20 out past Abilene to say Midland/Odessa area you will see windmill farms one after another. The work is already been put into practice and is more reality than a good sales pitch and pretty drawings. As I know it, these farms are privately owned and are not government subsidized. I could be wrong not like it has never happened before.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/12/2010-begins.html#comment-181362

I very much agree with you Jamie.

But politicians seem to have no problem using psychology on us to get the result they want in so many other ways. We just need to get them to practice that expertise in ways that will benefit the country more, instead of in ways to influence elections.

Jax-
Heartland took over when Exxon wanted to make a big move 2 years ago in Jan. They announced loudly that they would no longer fund the Club for Growth. Then they started funding the Heartland site.

Same thing as before, but with a new address.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/12/2010-begins.html#comment-181360

Solar, That was one great post. Level headed.

http://sarah-palin-2012.blogspot.com/2008/12/7-questions-obama-needs-to-answer.html

I got a few questions of my own like, Who is Vera Baker, and why is she in Martinique, we can start with 7.

Solar panels are nice------but solar insulation,,,at all of the exterior walls will bring up the R ratings from 19---to about,,and at least 30- R---plus making them more safe for the gang infested nieghborhoods----many advantages to think insulation,,,,,modifications.

"solar insulation,,,at all of the exterior walls will bring up the R ratings from 19---to about,,and at least 30- R--"

Solar, question.
On existing structures, would that require you to tear out all the walls to insulate. It would be a great requirement for new construction (not sure of cost) but would it be cost effective on existing.

The bottom line on Climate Change, more extreme weather events.
Like when I get 8 1/2 inches of rain in 24 hours. Or Marble Falls gets 18 inches in 6 hours. Remember that one ?

I think solar panels are a fairly easy installation.

Chole

What I want to concentrate on is how to improve new homes that I will be building----and the insulation of older ones-----this can save a great deal of energy---and money that can be spent on the economy------this can be done ,,,right now as we speak,,,no need to wait,,,,-

"The bottom line on Climate Change, more extreme weather events. Like when I get 8 1/2 inches of rain in 24 hours. "

Hasn't that always happened CBbob? Cycles.

Chole

I think that you posted and E-mail before ---i might have written down on my desk calender (along with all that days scribbling) can I e mail you at a later date?

Jack---Sturg----

have an E-mail address ? will understand if you don't want to give it out

Sure Solar

From last summer -

The problems started last month with two weeks of record temperatures on Baffin Island that reached as high as 27 Celsius (81 Fahrenheit), well above the July average of 12 C (54 F).

This, Scott said, triggered massive melting which sent "a huge pulse of water through the park", washing away 60 km (37 miles) of a trail used by hikers and destroying a bridge over a river that is otherwise impassable.

http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN01454902
------------
Drudge never finds these stories.

You can count on the Arabs....They like fighting each other almost as much as they like fighting the Israelis.....

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1228728151219&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

No question about it, EVERYTHING we do is affecting the earth. I can see that on my own property. Mistakes I've made. Education and awareness are all that's going to help. Wel that, a bunch more laws.

Torpedo.Vindecator

sorry for not getting back to you----what you say is all true---but ,I will have to read up on how productive it is for a large city and so forth-,,the size (scale ) that will be needed----this info is out there I know but I haven't read it all,,and need to understand it, in order to make an informed decision----than if something goes wrong---I can't bitch about it cos I knew what I was getting into sorta to speak???thanks

chloe -

A hotter system means everything in the system is more energetic . Cycles ? Yes there are cycles, but the trick is we (modern humans) have never had to go through one with 6.5 Billion people.

that last post should not have been posted (was not finished )---i was away from my desk-----and still have it in the comment box---anyone else having similar results?

You're right CBob. And we really don't need proof that it's happening. Common sense tells us it will (and has). Time to make adjustments

later

Chole

"Solar, question.
On existing structures, would that require you to tear out all the walls to insulate. It would be a great requirement for new construction (not sure of cost) but would it be cost effective on existing"

Yes it would,,,,that is why I said re-hab----but if you have an exterior wall that is pretty cold to the touch ---you probably have poor insulation,,if any---so $ is wasted.

It's probably type key Solar. Maybe you accidentally hit enter, but odd it's still in your comments box.

Supply and demand. Jax- you should know that no matter how cheap something starts out at or how expensive, the more it gets used, the more expensive/cheap it becomes. No matter what we use for energy in the future, it's all going to cost the same in the end.
Morning, Solar!

ree, I see gotcha politics is alive and well and living in Alaska. Does the term "fat chance" mean anything to you? Those 7 questions are typical RW BS, based on nothing. I wonder if they originated with Hannity - wait, he steals all his material. I'd say look to the criminal complaint - Obama isn't mentioned as having any connection to the scheme. BTW, Axelrod corrected hisown statement - isn't he a close advisor? Oh, and come 2012, have miss Sarah answer for her relationship with Teddy Stevens - then she can cast aspersions about connections to people engaged in criminal activity. Until then...

pogo- A lot of Alaskans are very unhappy with Ms. Palin right now 'cos she sold the pipeline rights to the hugh NG reserves on the North Slope to Canada. BP and company were dragging their feet in case the price of NG starts to bottom.
http://www.alaska.com/inalaska/story/2310.html

Almost every house in the U.S. could move to a solar hot water heater.
And a huge amount of small businesses.
I don't have one, but all this talk today, made me go check my solar heat collector at noon, and it was 135 degrees. Not bad for 10 days before the winter solstice, and 60 degree outside air temp.

My heat collector isn't designed for making heat per se. It's part of the system .

http://web.mac.com/coloradobob1/iWeb/Site/Blog/66353FF3-2FD9-4DB0-AF10-4D3E02853753.html

rosie, were you arguing with Ree? Alaskans should be unhappy with her for that. I can't speak to their satisfaction or dissatisfaction with her as governor- although I understand that there was plenty said about her failure to spend any time in Juneau trying to catch up after spending 3 months auditioning as JM's arm candy.

CONOMIC REPORT
U.S. households pay down debts for first time
Net worth plunges at 18% annualized rate in third quarter, Fed data show

By Rex Nutting, MarketWatch
Last update: 1:34 p.m. EST Dec. 11, 2008Comments: 323
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- Stung by the loss of more than $2.8 trillion in their net wealth, the nation's households paid down debts in the third quarter for the first time since at least 1952, the Federal Reserve reported Thursday.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/us-households-pay-down-debts/story.aspx?guid=%7B823A97D3-ECA6-4887-A70B-9425366E7473%7D

Actually with this economic downturn, the paying down of debt is one good aspect. It is really a sad commentary on our insatiable wants that we are willing to spend way beyond our means, to the point of being mostly without savings or financial reserves, counting instead on the new credit card offer coming in the mail. I have also been not exempt from this situation as I used to misuse credit cards as well. Never again.

Pay down the debts! Throw away the credit cards...

DON'T BE A SLAVE TO YOUR MASTERCARD

P.S. CAN SOMEONE PLEASE FIGURE OUT WTF THE PROBLEM IS WITH TYPEKEY OR TYPEPAD OR WHATEVER THE FRACK IT IS???

Alaskans were happy with her for giving us and extra $1200 this year in our permenate fund, and she was perceived as a threat to the good ol' boy network.
Remember, she hasn't been governor for that long. The jury is still out, and a couple of surprise witnesses may change the vedict. So to speak. BTW-I'm not arguing with anyone.

What does FWIW mean?

THWARTED AL QAEDA ATTACK IN BELGIUM?

Thu 11/12/08 19:10 (UPDATE) - During house searches in Brussels and Liège this morning 14 people were arrested. They are suspected of having links with the terror group al Qaeda. A few of the men arrested were plotting a suicide attack, say VRT sources.

The terror sweep came only hours before a European Union summit in Brussels, bringing together the heads of the 27 EU member states. The target of the purported attack was unclear, said federal public prosecutory Johan Delmulle: "We do not know exactly where this suicide attack was to take place... We do not exclude the possibility that the attack would have targeted Belgium or Europe."

http://www.deredactie.be/cm/de.redactie.english/news/081211_alQaeda_belgium

oh yeah, thanks Dumbya for making the world a better place free of terrorism and for bringing everyone along on your definition of "democracy" through your sterling example in Iraq. Sure have done a lot to make the world a safer place.

HEY ROSIE... FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH

rosie, for what it's worth.

Never let be forgotten that when Dick Cheney was Sec. of Defense.
He asked a contractor to study privatization in the Defense Dept.
That contractor said it was a swell idea. Cheney went to Halliburton, and even though that very same contractor was buried in asbestos law suits, he had Halliburton buy that contractor. That company was Kellog, Brown, and Root.
The good people of Illinois are pikers when it comes to electing carpet baggers.

In reply to Jax's market based solutions to energy problems, I can share what the EU is doing. They are setting benchmarks for Carbon emissions reductions that all EU countries must conform to. Energy is much more expensive in Europe due to high taxation and sort of in concurrence with what Jax suggest motivates people to use less energy when the price rises, this is correct. Some countries want the taxes reduced on energy because of the world recession, but most countries are not agreeing with this. They see the survival of the planet as an urgent focus, and in following that strategy, energy prices tend to rise, rather than go down.... The cheapest fuel in Belgium is Diesel... 87% of the cars use it.

If natural gas is the stuff known as LPG... cars can have those tanks put in, the fuel is much cheaper and much cleaner. However, the tanks are also highly explosive, thus dangerous. Also, a vehicle cannot run on LPG all the time; one must also have the regular tank as well because normal petroleum is necessary to lubricate the pistons and motor et al of the vehicle (as I understand it). I had a 1992 Buick Regal here and used mostly LPG but would also switch over to the original gas tank to keep the vehicle running well.

Good news for us, the official Belgian price for diesel drops another 5 euro cents tomorrow... The official price is the maximum price that gas stations can charge. At my station we give a 9 cent discount per litre.. .my competition give no reduction, so tomorrow morning my price will be around 0,87 cents a litre...

test This is a Typepad or Typekey test, whatever the FCK they are calling themselves now...

Pogo -
It's also important to note that countries, or states that rely on a natural resource based economy, are usually poor, or corrupt, or both.
Think of all the wealth that's been dug from West Virgina, and how little the people there have to show for that huge pipeline of money flowing out of their state.

Read something else that Jax wrote re: "bottom line driven"... As I said in my last post, in Europe "bottom line" won't be appeasing the money junkies, but trying to save the environment and the planet.

and since I am chatting with myself, I'll check in later... take care all...

ET -
That post deserves an "Atta Boy".

Point well taken CB. As you know, I lived in Al way back when, and back in the steel heyday a similar phenom occurred there but it involved coal, iron ore and limestone. I never knew how bad it was until i flew between Birmingham and Tuscaloosa in a small plane - almost half of the trip, over western Jefferson and eastern Tuscaloosa counties, was over what would have passed as a moonscape but for the scraggly ass slash pines that grew here and there. western jefferson and eastern tuscaloosa counties are very poor areas, as you might have guessed.

"And I couldn't open the 2nd link cuz it's a game, and our filters stop them."

pogo, actually it's not a game, just on a link called stevejacksongames. it's a futuristic article on rights.

solar liked it

ET, over here it's LNG. A few smaller fleets use it - you might be able to guess one of them - the Hope Gas fleet. (Hope is our local NG utility). I know a lot of forklifts are powered by LNG, in those "Blue Rhino"tanksthat makereally dramatic noise and visuals when the regulators fail and the tops of the tank catch fire.

ET -
America is bound up with these twisted theories, chief among them is this feckless belief that we have a "Free Market Economy" . That this "Free Market Economy" has some special brain inside it, and that it and it alone can make the right choices for us.
See that moron over seeing the Banking slush fund. Yesterday he couldn't tell congress if the fact the execs at AIG getting 3 million dollar bonuses was bad or not. We give AIG 150 Billion, and they give themselves a bonus. See "Free Market Economy" !

Now it seems possible that Raum Emmanuel was involved in Blagogate

BY FRAN SPIELMAN AND ABDON PALLASCH Staff Reporters
President-elect Barack Obama’s chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel, refused to take questions from reporters this morning about whether he was the Obama “advisor” named in the criminal complaint against Gov. Rod Blagojevich.

The complaint states Blagojevich wanted a promise of a high-level appointment or some other reward for Blagojevich in exchange for Blagojevich naming Obama’s friend Valerie Jarrett to replace him in the U.S. Senate.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/1326788,rahm-emanuel-blagojevich-obama-121108.article

patd - our filtersdon't look at the content - they key off the names and extensions. They block gambling sites, porn sites, personal sites and the like. I imagine having the word "games"in the address is enough to get that site blocked. I'll give you another example - because of the gambling filter I can't check the "daily odds"at USAToday. Apparently "odds" is one of the filter triggers.

Pogo -
The Niger Delta, copper mines in Chile, the list is endless.

To be fair, that CST article ETlinked had this as the last paragraph:

"No one in the Obama campaign or administration has been charged with any wrongdoing. Obama said this morning that none of his staff has had a hand in any dealmaking on his Senate replacement."

Bob, yup. Love the "free market" mini rant. So true.

how about windspires. they're not as big as the turbines.
http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/08/vertical-windsp.html

Gate -
Dear Lord when will we drop Gate ?

I like the using tides to generate energy idea.

Good question, CB. Not soon enough.

Looks like Tokyo and the repugs got their way.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/12/business/12auto.html?hp

All in the name of free market capitalism, I'm sure. I hope Fitz has his eyes on KY & AL. And I'm not saying they've done anything wrong - I'm just saying . . .

Patd -
Thanks, that vertical axis turbine, hasn't even scratched the surface, in the retrofit market. There's a another new design, it is where the smaller ones are going :

Energy Ball Super Efficient Wind Turbine
http://greenupgrader.com/3525/energy-ball-super-efficient-wind-turbine/

now THAT'S a wind turbine Icould live with - it's actually kinda neat looking.

Here's another one from Asia :
Similar design as the ball :

Loop Wing Wind Power Gererator

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBzyZAA6s2M

------------

Interesting news about oil demand - it's down 200,000 bbls/day for '08.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/12/business/worldbusiness/12oil.html?hp

Regular is $1.79.9 here and premium is below $2 for the first time I can recall.

I wonder how long it would take oneof those things to pay itself off .

I accidentally heard Michelle Malkin this morning and she is certifiablly insane. If she represents the hope of the right --the right should pack it in and save their money. What a whack job!

Wind power economics just got a push from Congress. The financial bailout package enacted in October included a tax credit of up to $4,000 for small wind systems.

http://www.buffalonews.com/home/story/510741.html

------------------

Businesses and individuals who buy solar energy systems are eligible to receive the solar energy investment tax credit. For residential purchasers, the solar ITC is capped at 30% of the cost of their system; a $2,000 cap on the ITC for residential owners was lifted.

http://ucsusa.org/clean_energy/solutions/big_picture_solutions/production-tax-credit-for.html

If they had a working life-span of, say, 10 yrs and it only took 3-4 yrs to pay for itself, then they would be worth it. But what if it took 8-9 yrs to pay for itself?

I like the idea of personal wind mills. There have been a few zoning issues up here in NH, where people have either not been allowed to put one up, or had an injunction against using it. Those local issues will need to be worked out.

I bet that there will be a big push by corporate interests to not embrace energy technology that makes individuals and families independent and able to go off the grid. They will want to maintain some method for monthly charges for energy.

Yet another New design in small turbines -

Swift Home Turbine

http://www.therealestatebloggers.com/2008/10/27/private-wind-turbines-can-save-homeowners-money/

" I bet that there will be a big push by corporate interests to not embrace energy technology that makes individuals and families independent and able to go off the grid."

Bow ,
That's when you'll hear about the "Free Market" the most. You're right about zoning, but that's one of the things we will have to change one city council meeting at a time.

"that woman "

"That" woman.
"Those" people.

Allude, Prelude....

""arm candy", LOL, that's going to get you in trouble. "

Yep....

But we all know Mrs. P calls Mr. P her "stud muffin" -- so he gets one "get out of jail card".... :)

Consider the "Free Market" for wind energy :

From 1999 until 2004, the PTC had expired on three separate occasions. Originally enacted as part of the Energy Policy Act of 1992, the PTC—then targeted to support just wind and certain bioenergy resources—was first allowed to sunset on June 30, 1999. In December of 1999, again due to the efforts of UCS and other organizations, the credit was extended until December 31, 2001. The PTC expired at the end of 2001, and it was not until March 2002 that the credit was extended for another two years. Congress allowed the PTC to expire for the third time at the end of 2003. From late 2003 through most of 2004 attempts to extend and expand the PTC were held hostage to the fossil-fuel dominated comprehensive energy bill that ultimately failed to pass during the 108th Congress. In early October 2004, a one-year extension (retroactive back to January 1, 2004) of the PTC was included in a larger package of 'high priority' tax incentives for businesses signed by President George Bush. A second bill—extending the PTC through 2005 and expanding the list of eligible renewable energy technologies—was enacted just a few weeks later.

http://ucsusa.org/clean_energy/solutions/big_picture_solutions/production-tax-credit-for.html
-------------------

Pogo -
This guy's design has a lot promise, and it's really pretty to boot :

Spiralairfoil Wind Turbine Made by Spiralwindllc.com.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IIRGHF409E

Helix Wind Turbine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9flSPAdOLk

""arm candy"

It's hard to get upset with pogo, Patsi. But I couldn't believe when he said that.

the earth spiral looks even prettier
http://spiralwindllc.com/info.htm

can't find a moving pix on it tho

Patd, Is this it?

Earth Spiral made by Spiralwindllc.com
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=gO3WK89BB5Q

Aeroturbines offer architects the unique opportunity to integrate wind energy production into a building’s design, hence the name “Aerotecture”. Buildings can be designed so as to focus and accelerate winds thereby augmenting the energy Aeroturbines can capture.

http://www.aerotecture.com/index.html

Pogo, the thing is President-elect Obama has said ...

"Obama repeated that he had no conversations with the governor.

As to whether his top aides talked with the governor, Obama would only say they offered no deals to Blagojevich.

Obama’s White House chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel, and top adviser David Axelrod have stood at his side for just about every news conference he has held since his election, but neither was present at Obama’s news conference today in Chicago, which was called to announce Obama’s choice of former Sen. Tom Daschle for the role of health and human services secretary."

Now I don't think there is anything to this, but appearances can taint facts and spotlight rumors and innuendos. I don't like this "Obama is from Illinois, therefore he is guilty by association" b.s. It's just partisan attacking. Shame, Shame, Shame.

Illinois First Lady Patti Blagojevich, used to sell real estate with Tony Rezko...yeah who would have guessed another link in the Obama chain of associations. Below Rezko trying to get some time knocked off his sentence....before Jan 20th 2009?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/10/AR2008121003232_2.html?wprss=rss_politics&sid=ST2008121100142&s_pos=

Patsi, you been talkin to Mrs. P? LOL

Sorry, I just calls 'em as I sees 'em. Actually, I never thought about her as a republibabe until I heard El Rushbo spculate about her looks driving liberals nuts because she looked like someone they would want to date, not hate. (I had this image of him running to his doc for a new Viagra 'scrp). She ain't bad, but she ain't my cup o' tea as they say. I think it's that mean curl of the lip that I mentioned was the same one my mom had when she was in a mean jag. Oh, and notice that I said I thought MsC was the title she won and deserved. MsC was always the one crying while the winner accepted her crown. Those roses were the booby prize.

"Lawyers in the Blagojevich case said information provided by Rezko and others who testified at Rezko's trial could form the backbone of several additional charges against the governor. Blagojevich's wife, Patricia, had worked on real estate deals with Rezko. " Lets see how long was the F.B.I. wire tapping Tony Rezko? and they were wire tapping Blagojevich for 3 years...hmmmm what a coincidence.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/10/AR2008121003232_2.html?wprss=rss_politics&sid=ST2008121100142&s_pos=

CHICAGO, CHICAGO, AND ALL THAT JAZZ!

ET, I think Blago's comment about F'n Obama and just willin to give him F'n gratitude or whatever instead of something of value pretty much says it all - it's something akin to "they ain't dealin' and I'm pissed."

I think it is hilarious that the coal folks are using lumps of coal to sing Christmas Carols. Afterall, when you are very very BAD, you get a lump of coal in your stocking.

Ree

At least let the man get in office before you start trying to impeach him with assinine guilt by association fictions.

Chill for a bit and go sailing with the Swift Boat clowns.

jamie - LOL - the coal in the stocking angle completely escaped me.

hey everyone....
great discussion on all the energy stuff!.... an awful lot of food for thought...

Bowman.... glad to see you here..... I was wondering about your commute from Nashua to Leominster..... just took my bird feeders in (that goddamn bear got to them again last month)..... and I almost broke my neck walking the 50 ft to retrieve them..... driving in the ice must be horrid today.....

I saw Obama's press conference..... all I can say is that Jan 20th can't come fast enough for me!

Ree, you don't suppose that Rezko also held a fundraiser for Blago do you? Rezko will have connections to all the major players in IL politics through his political fundraising activities. It is what he did in addition to real estate and restaurant. This one ain't gonna have any legs.

"until I heard El Rushbo spculate about her looks "

Hmm...this would be the same Rushbo who did extensive harm to women's rights by popularizing the concept of "feminazi."

In this cycle we had two major female candidates. Both were marginalized with gender based attacks. Hillary was the bitchy older woman who reminded people like Mike Barnacle of "the first ex-wife" and Sarah Palin was the bitchy but sexy twit. The two most common stereotypes.

And ALL this language goes straight to the heart of what feminism is about: equality. It's hard to fight for equal pay when the boys with the checkbooks are desensitized to language. It also keeps the harassment door wide open.

I think that's why hearing women do it makes me cringe even more -- they don't realize where it all ends up -- with some man's unwelcome hand either in your pants or in your pocket.

Shelly over at this Eclectic Life wrote a blog article on what the average person can do to recycle and go green. The commentary and helpful hints list is getting long, but feel free to add your expertise

http://thiseclecticlife.com/2008/12/10/re-thinking-recyling/

I don't mind "arm candy" as long as it is recognized that many, many men fall into this category of having more body than brains.

Thanks for that link, Jamie -- some very good thoughts...when my entire family was here this summer -- including a nephew and his family -- I couldn't believe the amount of bottled water!

Patsi, I don't argue with that. It's an unfortunate holdover from pre-feminism days when women stayed home to raise the kids and had to be as concerned about their looks as they were their pot roasts. As you do or should well know, my beef with Palin is that she was IMHO wholly unqualified to assume the presidency had McCain succumbed. Like I said, I just calls 'em as I sees 'em, and she (well, her handlers) were trying to play her attractiveness to the hilt, apparently spending over a quarter of a million bucks on clothes, hair and makeup. I don't feel too guilty making fun of those efforts. She supplied the bitchy and twit part - and those aren't qualities I associate with presidential demanor - and those qualities were played on. Unfair? I dont know; maybe I'm just not sensitive enough to that - you can make that call. Did I consider the attacks against hHillary unfair? Sure did. I still think she would have been the best choice, and neither looks nor "feminine" attributes had anything to do with my judgment on that..

And I really do have to admit to being too shallow by half personally when it comes to appreciating what I consider good looks in women. That just doesn't happen to matter one whit to me when it comes to picking a leader of the free world (or the Vice who's half a heartbeat away from that person) .

jamie,

Consider that understood. I consider myself pretty much average on both counts. :-)

Oh, and Patsi, yes it would be that El Rushbo, who I consider to be one of the biggest assholes in the English speaking world, and his coining and use of the term feminazi is one of the reasons I hold him in such regard.

Gategate

" El Rushbo, who I consider to be one of the biggest assholes in the English speaking world"

ROFL@Pogo....and a druggie to boot!

MSNBC’s Joe Scarborough called the gaffe simply "Gategate."

Yeah he's that guy who hits on young women with the line - "I've got a Platinum Visa witha $50K limit and a pocket full of Viagra" - and thinks it's cool.

I see Minnesota continues to be tense.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/11/more-minnesota-absentee-b_n_150292.html

Well, I guess I should mosey along and hope LP gets done with BB practice a little early. I have to herd 3 of the little testosterone factories around tonight for a while.

Y'all have a good eveinin'.

Candidate number five and his dad lawyer up

http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/11/jesse-jackson-jrs-dad-lawyers-up-too/

Patsi in response to one of your earlier posts, we leased some property for oil and gas exploration a couple of years ago. They paid $250 an acre/year and 1/5 royalty interest. They don't pay the lease if /when they drill, just the royalty interest if they get lucky. Don't sell your mineral rights. There are those out there who try to scam people into selling their mineral rights. We get letters all the time.

Carol

They think they have found Caylee Anthony's body. I want to call my sister and tell her but I'm afraid to.

Boy, I was getting ready to ask why they couldn't put a vertival turbine in the post and reduce the mass for animals to fly into - and suddenly everyone was way ahead of me. I was afraid it would be a stupid question - HA!

Those other turbine things look beautiful, esp the spiral and the helix, but there is so much mass to them. I don't see how that would reduce the risk to critters.

Further, I am going to expose myself to the wrath of my fellow women by saying that the term 'arm candy' didn't and doesn't bother me a bit. There is beauty, much of it, in the world and we can't constrain ourselves from commenting on. I personally consider SO many men and kids to be 'eye candy' and don't want to stop thinking of them that way.

Paul Newman, Joe Biden, Antonio Banderas, Denzel
Washington, Raul Julia, George Clooney, my great nephews and niece, my nephew and nephews-in-law -
Pavarotti, Domingo, Carreras..... I love to look at them.

Powell apparently thinks 'don't ask, don't tell' needs to be re-thunk.! SOB - he got it going in the first place. Military men wouldn't stand for it, he said.

I was gonna join in on the energy discussion, but I was too tired!

One last thing - HA!

I think the campaigns have always been on-going. The media just needs jobs so now they are going to keep us abreast of the stuff we didn't know was going on . Oh goody.

Story about rooftop wind turbines in SF
required a zoning change to allow them

http://www.sfbg.com/entry.php?entry_id=4052&catid=4&volume_id=254&issue_id=305&volume_num=41&issue_num=41

Raul Julia? Isn't he dead?

There's a Jr? Didn't realize that! Never mind. LOL!

Yesterday was Gov Balgo's birthday.

"If you're thinking about getting him a gift, lawyers are always a good choice." - Craig Ferguson

Bethy

"Don't Ask Don't Tell" as bad as it is was about the best that could happen at the time. Now that there have been so many examples of wonderful men and women with a great deal of expertise being thrown out in this era of right wing witch hunts, and just the passage of time has probably turned full acceptance into an idea whose time has come.

There is another term I use that might upset Patsi a bit even though it reflects more poorly on the men than the women. When some 50ish, fat, balding rich guy dumps his wife of 20+ years in favor of finding true love with a pretty blond 20 or 30 years his junior, I do refer to wife number 2 as a "Lemon Tart".

Why Every Snarky Blogger Should Thank Don Rickles (and What They Stiil Have to Learn from Him) By John Mayer

http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/20081211/cm_huffpost/150088

Bethy -- simply saying someone is "arm candy" isn't the issue...it's how it is used. Jamie's right, it can be male of female...

In Palin's case....it's just not there. Her looks were not what energized McCain's so-called base...a base who was disinterested until she presented herself as a woman of the people. And especially of the religious right. No, she was NOT equipped to the POTUS should something have happened to McCain.

But you know what? I look back on it and have to believe that if Joe Lieberman had been POTUS after 9/11 -- we might have had similar results as with Bush. I now look back on my vote for him as highly questionable.

Several things bothered me through the whole ordeal. One, the ugliness of the initial attacks against her teenage daughter and Down Syndrome child. Two, that the media seemed to have never heard of her and had no idea how she had actually governed.

But third -- and this is a biggie -- that people were so complacent and or stupid...that, for example, no one questioned the so-called Africa-is-a-country news cycle. And even though it quickly came out that the entire thing was a gag cooked up by some LA filmmakers...the press kept using it as did many, many individuals. Unbelievable.

The lack of any kind of dissection may seem funny when it is a political opponent, but next time it very well may be some liberal candidate at the wrong end of a sneer and smear media.

"When some 50ish, fat, balding rich guy dumps his wife of 20+ years in favor of finding true love with a pretty blond 20 or 30 years his junior, I do refer to wife number 2 as a "Lemon Tart".

I guess the real question is in knowing if she IS a tart.

Okay, since you're on the subject. My friend is 49 and she is the main income of her household. Her husband is 50, just finished schooling, looking for a job in the computer field, but now only working through manpower. I told her that she was his "Suga Mama" since she was making more money than him. She said, "I can't be his suga mama! He's older than me!" My question is: What would the proper term for her be?

Patsi

I agree that many of the attacks on Palin were out of line. As much as I felt her positions were horrendous as well as not finding her at all likable, you are right that she deserved to have her record and those positions examined fairly as with any other candidate.

I wish John Edwards would give Gov Blago the phone number of his hair stylist!

"Nothing Wrong With My Value System"

I don't believe Colin Powell should go there.

IMO there is something very wrong with his value system.

He has yet to admit to his errors nor apologise for his silence since he has left the administration.

Jack

Excerpt from Huffington Post Story by Phil Bronstein:

I stand here though (sit here, actually) in defense of Governor Blagojevich. While he may have tried to sell a US Senate seat, held up kids' hospital funding waiting for some kickbacks and tried to gangplank journalists he didn't like through extortion, at least he didn't cheat on his wife like Elliot Spitzer and John Edwards. In fact, this faithful husband even tried to dip into his shakedown skims and get ransom money to secure his wife a grifter job. That's got to be a Cosmo cover line on a 10-great-qualities-in-a-husband story.

Jamie, there are lots of people who I do not find likeable at all. It's just that not all of them are involved in politics.

At least not directly. LOL!

BTW

Is anyone interested in making guesses for the Golden Globes? One of my pet peeves is that there are movies nominated that won't even be released until next weekend because the Foreign Press folks get sneak peaks.

How about just the television awards between now and January 10? I can post the contenders for those if anyone wants to do it.

How's it going, Jack?

Speaking of pies...my mincemeat/pear pie turned out wonderful....I may make it again at Christmas, even though both my kids hate mincemeat.

Patsi - I'm in total agreement with you about the sexism
but I was just commenting on the reaction to the use of arm candy by Pogo. I'm finding I have progressively less and less patience with sexism, and I never had much to start with. I guess that means I'm in the minus range.

Years ago, an old family acquaintance, an elderly man who was fairly doddery, walked up to us and started talking whilce he tried to cop a feel. I welcomed him and pulled my chair around so he could get closer and
'accidently' walloped him with it. No one else saw it but it shocked him. The creep.

BBC America news had a nice opening feature on environmental projects that could be started immediately in the US

http://www.bbcamerica.com/content/329/index.jsp

PATSI----HI

Can you please give this guy some directions

An old man is sitting on a park bench crying.
A young man is walking by and asks him why he's crying.
The old man says, "I'm retired and I have lots of money, a huge luxury apartment, a beautiful 25 year old wife who loves me and has sex with me twice a day."

The young man says, "Well then why the hell are you crying!?"
The old man replies, "I can't remember where I live!"

Corey

I'm setting here watching the wife decorate the Christmas tree.

We've had a good day.

Hows it going with you?

Jack

Another feature tonight even more interesting ... letters from 1920 from when Britain "liberated" Mesopotania to form Iraq. Apparently more than 1000 of their soldiers are buried in a Bagdad cemetery.

Went Christmas shopping today. Just feeling like mocking tonight. LOL! I bought my friend a book. It was a toss-up between the Michelle Obama biography or the new book by Kenny Mayne of ESPN. I went with Kenny. He has a very dry wit. Funny stuff!

Jack

I don't know if you saw my answer to you question last night ---if not I'll fetch it?

The letters in the BBC feature were written by Gertrude Bell

http://jdurward.blogspot.com/2007/05/gertrude-bell.html

Rosie

Just catching up with today's threads------thanks for the shut out this morning----good evening

" I welcomed him and pulled my chair around so he could get closer and
'accidently' walloped him with it. No one else saw it but it shocked him. The creep."

ROFL! That's great...

And yes, I took your meaning...

Solar

Saw the reply, You can email me at whskyjack at yahoo.com

Jack

"The old man replies, "I can't remember where I live!"

Ha -- but you're late with that one, Solar...I think it's on somebody's email joke list!!!

"Went Christmas shopping today. "

Corey (and Jack, since you are both in a Christmas mode) -- I finally started wrapping some presents today...

I despise wrapping presents... Love to see 'em all wrapped and ready, though.

PUMA, Jack.

The Savage Male--

1st-- post if you don't want me to post any more of this info--please let me know and I will stop??

Female infanticide is one manifestation of male supremacy. It can be shown that other manifestations of male supremacy are also rooted in the practical exigencies of armed conflict.....To explain human sexual hierarchies we must choose between theories that stress unmodifiable instincts and theories which emphasize the adaptiveness of lifestyles with respect to modifiable practical and mundane conditions I am inclined to the women's liberationist view that "anatomy is not destiny." by which is meant that innate sexual differences cannot account for the unequal distribution of privileges and powers between men and women within the domestic, economic, and political spheres. Women's libverationists do not deny that the possession of ovaries rather than testicles necessarily leads to different kinds of live experiences. What they deny is that there is something in the biological nature of men and women that by itself destines human males to enjoy greater sexual, economic, and political privileges than females.

Apart from childbearing and related sexual specialties, the assignment of social roles on the basis of sex does mot follow automatically from the biological differences between men and women. Knowing only the facts of human anatomy and biology, one could not predict that females would be the socially subordinate sex. This is because the human species is unique in the animal kingdom for the lack of correspondence between its hereditary anatomical equipment and its means of subsistence and defense. We are the world's most dangerous species not because we have the biggest teeth, sharpest claws, most venomous sting, or thickest skin, but because we know how to equip ourselves with deadly tools and weapons that perform the functions of teeth, claws, stings and hides more effectively than any mere anatomical device. Our primary mode of biological adaptation is culture, not anatomy. Men can mo more be expected to dominate women simply because they are taller and heavier, than I expected the human species to be ruled over by cattle or horses---animals that outweigh the average husband by an amount thirty times greater that he outweighs his wife. In human societies, sexual dominance is not settled by which sex is bigger or innately more assertive,,but rather by which sex controls the technology of defense and aggression.

"In human societies, sexual dominance is not settled by which sex is bigger or innately more assertive,,but rather by which sex controls the technology of defense and aggression."

VERY interesting....and if I were an NRA marketing type, I'd use that to put together an ad campaign to get women into gun shops! (I'm serious)

Before anybody gets crazy -- I can look at things from a distance and in some cases, dispassionately.....I also love marketing...

*raises his hand*

Put your hand back to where it usually is.

Patsi

The wife has been wanting to learn how to shoot a gun. I have a single shot 22 that I got as a Christmas present when I was 12. A great gun to learn how to shoot with, very little chance of accidentally firing it.

So a few min. ago I told her we would buy a box of shells and take it with us when we went to the country.

Now you've got me wondering ;-)

Jack

Jack

Why Is it? Whenever Obama's Judgment is questioned, the first thing all he supporters do is start bashing Gov. Palin? She is no longer in the picture, but you all are not happy if your not dragging her through the mud. Obama got his start in Chicago politics, he knows how the game is played, and from the look of things he can play it just as good as the next guy. I don't like Obama for the simply fact, that he has to many shady friends, and not a whole lot of experience. I have never bashed his wife or his children, and I have never questioned if he has been faithful, or if those girls are his. Why, do you people insist, on talking bad, about Gov. Palin and her children, that women was in the limelight for less then 3 months, and she got more crap handed to her, than Obama did in his 20+ months. Give it a rest you won, be happy about it, and pay more attention to what Obama does and says, and less about Gov. Palin. Because believe you me, there will be alot of people only to happy, to put out ever little thing that Obama does wrong in the next 4 years.

Solar

from my favorite book of folks lore(in this case dirty jokes) from the Ozarks.

Vance Randolf, "Pissing in the Snow and other Ozark folks tales."

http://www.uta.fi/FAST/US7/FOLK/pissing.html

Jack

Jack, I worked with a maintenance guy awhile ago who got his 12 year-old daughter a shotgun for her birthday.

There are alot of people questioning Obama's Judgment. He can only explain so much of this crap away, before some it starts to stick and he starts to smell. You can't tell me this is the only politician to come out of Chicago with clean hands. He is as dirty as the rest of them, the only difference, is that he has alot of people covering for him. Because promises were made, and now those promises have to be paid. That's why remarks were made that Obama's seat must get filled, by someone (male or female) that is black.

"Shocking news out of Illinois today. Governor Rod Blagojevich was arrested on corruption charges, including the allegation that he was selling Barack Obama's vacant senate seat. Now, I personally am surprised Obama even needed a seat. I thought he just levitated." - Stephen Colbert

Corey

A shot gun can be a large gun for a 12 year old but as long as there is proper supervision I see no problem.

I would go bigger than a 20 gage though.

Jack

After this week, I doubt Sarah Palin is the worst governor in the U.S.

Jack, those maintenance guys were crazy back in the day. They used to have these paint ball wars on Friday mornings. They asked us to join them one morning. I thought about it and I figured their paint ball wars would be "take no prisoners" and decided against it.

12 year-olds with guns....50 year-olds with bongs. Only in America! as Don King would say.

Fran Drescher wants Hillary's senate seat:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2008/12/09/2008-12-09_dont_laugh_actress_and_queens_native_fra-1.html

After much reflection, I think Sarah Palin is exactly what the Repulican party often selects in its presidential nominee...someone who is not an intellectual heavyweight, who is not particularly curious for whatever reason, and who can be manipulated by the powers behind the throne. With the exception of George HW Bush, that is what they've had in every Republican president since 1980...perhaps earlier, but I'd have to do more research than I'm willing to do in order to go back any further than Reagan.

Patsi

You're not going to believe this but my wife is wrapping empty boxes so we have decorations that look like presents.

We are going to put them outside for outdoor decorations.

christmas presents laying around the yard.

Jack

"with the exception of GHW bush" ie, the one whom the gop deserted and was left to lose on his own.....

Exactly, sturg! I started to add that the party had not worked very hard to help re-elect George HW Bush, but deleted it because I didn't want to defend the statement. If it requires defense, now I have you on my side! :-))

Jack, I'm guessing that's what a lot of people will be doing this Christmas!

I thought at the time that he was left to twist slowly slowly in the wind.......
so to speak

Corey

My mother in law could remember when she got toys for Christmas, Her younger siblings can only remember getting an orange.

That is hard times

Jack

we were so poor we couldnt afford to buy a kite......we had to go out and hire one........I've got a picture of my father outside the local tavern, hirin' a kite.......

--wc fields

"I've got a picture of my father outside the local tavern, hirin' a kite.......

--wc fields"

ROFL, Sturge

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB24X05F0wI&feature=related

PLUNKITT OF TAMMANY HALL

[George Washington Plunkitt (1842-1924), long-time State Senator from New York's Fifteenth Assembly District, was for forty years a Tammany sachem and something of a power in New York City politics. He became wealthy by means of what he called "honest graft," but continued to hang on to political power because he enjoyed it. He seems to have given interviews and conducted much of his business from a seat on the bootblack stand at the New York County Court-House.
William L. Riordon, a journalist, published a series of interviews titled Plunkitt of Tammany Hall (N.Y.: McClure, Philipps & Co., 1905) which give the flavor of the man with disarming frankness-indeed, one might regard parts of the book as disingenuous. Here we reproduce parts of two chapters: "Honest Graft and Dishonest Graft," pp. 3-10; and "To Hold Your District," pp. 46-53.]

Everybody is talkin' these days about Tammany men growin' rich on graft, but nobody thinks of drawin' the distinction between honest graft and dishonest graft. There' s all the difference in the world between the two. Yes, many of our men have grown rich in politics. I have myself. I've made a big fortune out of the game, and I'm gettin' richer every day, but I've not gone in for dishonest graft – blackmailin' gamblers, saloon-keepers, disorderly people, etc.–and neither has any of the men who have made big fortunes in politics.

There's an honest graft, and I'm an example of how it works. I might sum up the whole thing by sayin': "I seen my opportunities and I took'em."

Just let me explain by examples. My party's in power in the city, and it's goin' to undertake a lot of public improvements. Well, I'm tipped off, say, that they're going to lay out a new park at a certain place.

I see my opportunity and I take it. I go to that place and I buy up all the land I can in the neighborhood. Then the board of this or that makes its plan public, and there is a rush to get my land, which nobody cared particular for before.

Ain't it perfectly honest to charge a good price and make a profit on my investment and foresight? Of course, it is. Well, that's honest graft.

Or, supposin' it's a new bridge they're goin' to build. I get tipped off and I buy as much property as I can that has to be taken for approaches. I sell at my own price later on and drop some more money in the bank.

Wouldn't you? It's just like lookin' ahead in Wall Street or in the coffee or cotton market. It's honest graft, and I'm lookin' for it every day in the year. I will tell you frankly that I've got a good lot of it, too.

I'll tell you of one case. They were goin' to fix up a big park, no matter where. I got on to it, and went lookin' about for land in that neighborhood.

I could get nothin' at a bargain but a big piece of swamp, but I took it fast enough and held on to it. What turned out was just what I counted on. They couldn't make the park complete without Plunkitt's swamp, and they had to pay a good price for it. Anything dishonest in that?

Up in the watershed I made some money, too. I bought up several bits of land there some years ago and made a pretty good guess that they would be bought up for water purposes later by the city.

Somehow, I always guessed about right, and shoudn't I enjoy the profit of my foresight? It was rather amusin' when the condemnation commissioners came along and found piece after piece of the land in the name of George Plunkitt of the Fifteenth Assembly District, New York

City. They wondered how I knew just what to buy. The answer is – I seen my opportunity and I took it. I haven't confined myself to land; anything that pays is in my line.

http://www.uhb.fr/faulkner/ny/plunkitt.htm

History International is showing a program on the assassination of William McKinley.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYeFvbSs_J4

Hilariously stupid.