Champ doesn't hate anyone---he is actually a kind man with a smart ass mouth and the intelligence to back it up---about gordo,,,he defends him like he does others,,,,, i believe that he thinks that gordo has every bit a right to post here as anybody else,,,and i agree --what i do is not read gordo cos i don't think it is fun anymore ----for me the fun in the gordo posts is that it drove almost every one nuts---i don't think that i could ever win an argument with pogo, but gordo had him going around and around,,,champ also felt that gordo never said anything rude to anyone, or anything that demanded excomuinication,,,,and i agree once again,,,just go past his post, to make him vanish---that is unless u want to tell every one here that he is a----and a----but that doesn't matter---gordo will be gordo, and take it all in like the gentleman that he is,,,champ will recover his sense of humor and then watch out,,sorry if i did not represent you too well champ,,but is callls them likes i seees them---night
GORDO's posts are redundant & boring. He seems to think that filing a paper with the court makes a case legit. It may just waste time and money. Courts don't act on idle speculation. pogo, others and I have repeatedly explained this to him. GORDO replies with the exact same bs, and writes that WE don't understand ! I don't have to be kind to liars. GORDO has a right to post here if Craig says so, 'cuz this is Craig's house.
2. I disagree about champ. I think champ is a champion hater. He is rude to me and others for little or no reason. He has repeatedly accused me of twisting things, when he actually didn't bother to read what I wrote. When he has made false accusations against me, I have cut and pasted my posts and put them back up to prove that I never wrote what he claims I did. When he is shown to be mistaken, he doesn't apologize. You may think he's a gentleman, but I think he is funny, rude, and filled with hate.
Now, I've wasted more of your time and my time than either of them deserve. It's getting late. Good night.
Senator Shelby ( Sunday MTP) really cast a pall of gloom on any hopes the government will give the automakers $25,000,000,000.
And still somebody thinks we should kick in $12,000,000,000 every WEEK to throw down that goddam rat hole in Iraq
Priorities . Out of line.
and solar, warn you fair and square.
jack's ahidin inna wood pile over there.
course he jus might be rollin in the hay
puttin oft this frey like he did tother day.
naw, cuz'n jack, he haint yeller
jus a cautious like feller.
the trail of the end of the Roman Republic......Old time cash poor aristocrat Julius Caesar's daddy because he needed money, let mine-rich Gaius Marius, who needed social standing, marry Julius' aunt......Marius made it possible for Sylla, at first a penniless young degenerate aristocrat to eventually rise to the level of Dictator....Sylla the Absolute Dictator made circumstances possible for Julius and Pompeius Magnus to have a civil war for control of the state, which war Julius won. After his stabbing near the statue of Pompeius, Julius' adopted nephew, Octavian and Julius' old buddy Marcus Antony aspired both for sole control of the state and had another civil war over it which Marc A. lost.....Octavian, being smart and young took full advantage of the situation and assumed full control of the state.......the senate remaining largely ineffective and largely enough easily bought was no help and unable to effect anything very "republicky" at all.......this all started about 10 years before Julius was born and culminated some short years after his death (JC 100bc to 44bc).....the marriage of Julius' aunt was in 110 BC and by 27 BC the republic was history.....although it had already been made history by Sylla's and Julius' dictatorships much earlier......
Fifty-nine presidents of public universities reeled in more than $500,000 in salary and benefits during the 2007-08 academic year, more than double the number who broke the half-million mark three years earlier, according to a survey by the Chronicle of Higher Education released on Monday.
Cicero's last words were said to have been, "There is nothing proper about what you are doing, soldier, but do try to kill me properly." He was decapitated by his pursuers. Once discovered, he bowed to his captors, leaning his head out of the litter in a gladiatorial gesture to ease the task. By baring his neck and throat to the soldiers, he was indicating that he wouldn't resist. His hands were cut off as well and nailed and displayed along with the head on the Rostra in the Forum Romanum according to the tradition of Marius and Sulla, both of whom had displayed the heads of their enemies in the Forum. Cicero was the only victim of the proscriptions to be displayed in that manner. According to Cassius Dio (in a story often mistakenly attributed to Plutarch), Antony's wife Fulvia took Cicero's head, pulled out his tongue, and jabbed it repeatedly with her hairpin in final revenge against Cicero's power of speech.
The GOP lost the battle of ideas even more comprehensively than the battle for educated votes, marching into the election with nothing more than slogans.
Energy? Just drill, baby, drill. Global warming? Crack a joke about Ozone Al. Immigration? Send the bums home. Torture and Guantanamo? Wear a T-shirt saying you would rather be waterboarding.
I wrote a response to what xrepub said about Champ on the last thread (this morning), then came over and started reading this thread and found what you said. I'm going to reprint my response here. It's worded differently than yours, but I also agree with the stuff you wrote about Gordo.
"Apparently, I am not the only one champ hates around here, because he experienced another couple hissyfits today, while I was away raking." xrepublican
Champ doesn't hate you or anyone else xrepub - he's mad about all the injustice in the world. He's a little mad too, because he thinks the rest of us can't see it. And he doesn't like it when some act like a bully with their ideas.
Good Spin - So we are seeing which Barack is showing up a step at a time - No judgement here so relax......
But where is all of the Words just Words about bringing Change to Washington?
How about the title - Obama brings same old same old to rule with him - Now if they are the best qualified then so be it.
Also why are so many wanting to run away from the Senate?
I read a few of Craig's posts. Why do you suppose that the caucus is taking a secret vote to determine Lieberman's punishment? In every article I see the member interviewed professess to be a close friend of Liebermans. It may just be me but a secret vote seems kind of cowardly. If he's really a friend and you think he needs to be punsihed then you shouldn't have to be secret about it.
They are scared that he might switch his party affiliation to Republican. What has he got to lose? He has already embarrassed the democratic party and himself. I have to give him credit for saying what he actually believes. Rare for a politician.
"Also why are so many wanting to run away from the Senate?
Ping,
The way they run the senate, they could have one Democrat (representing the entire US), one Republican (doing the same) and 1/1000th of an Independent. Then the votes would come out about the same as they do now. It's got to feel like a losing battle there, when everyone is always just expected to vote on party lines on everything anyway - no deviation permitted. And if they don't conform, they pay a price.....
I envision a Government without parties, where all ideas are welcome and voted on independently.
Got to feed my animals again (and there's a lot of them).
They think they're supposed to eat every day, so what can I do. :)
Bow,
I'm not saying that I even disagree with voting on action. It's what parties do. Why be so clandestine about it? I shouldn't be surprised but the word "spineless" keep coming to mind.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but your argument is that 46% of the voting public were in fact "smart", and their only mistake was following a party led by Idiots ?
The Athenians defined Idiots as follows :
"Idiots" were seen as having bad judgment in public and political matters.
Before I go, Sturge I didn't mean to put you on the spot (if I did).
I think honesty is more important than courage (unless it's the courage to be honest), but I was interested in other peoples opinion on it. I know Courage is an important value to a lot of people and thought others might disagree with me on putting it second.
Bow,
Many of these countries have personnel there for logistical and administrative purposes. They are there
to facilitate actions (should they be needed) in less stable regions of the world. Many other US agencies
also use these facilties worldwide and would still be required to remain.
I see that pirates captured the brand new Saudi tanker off of Mombasa. It's interesting, Saudi Aramco registered the vessel under the Liberian Flag. I think that we should let the Liberian Navy go rescue them.
I'm sure they'll come running to Nato or the Russians to help them.....
Solar, you might notice that I got off the Gordo merry-go-round. Repetitive and boring is the best description of his repeated posts on the same subject ime and time and time again . . .
LOL - Geronimo's real name mighta escaped us, but it couldn't escape Wiki.
Geronimo (Chiricahua: Goyaałé, "one who yawns"; often spelled Goyathlay or Goyahkla[1] in English) (June 16, 1829–February 17, 1909) was a prominent Native American leader of the Chiricahua Apache who fought against Mexico and the United States and their expansion into Apache tribal lands for several decades.
I got a bit of a kick out of the discussion about redundency consultants or corporate downsizers or hired firers or assholes or whatever. Apparently here the correct term would be scapegoat. I have a brother in law who worked for McKenzie (or was it Boston Counsulting? not sure now) back when GM was going through one of its periodic downsizings to keep Toyota from digging its grave too soon. Although the GM management knew very well where the redundencies were and who needed to go - and communicated that to the consltants they hired for cover - the GM folks were too concerned with union relations to appear to make the hard decisions and tell the union and the workers whose jobs were being eliminated that their future plans didn't include them - so they hired outside consulting firms to come in and put the gloss of analysis and legitimacy on what should have been management decisions. It was a gut wrenching job for my brother in law, who quit because of it. We called him Tom.
Oh, and most of those Roman and Greek guys are dead now, aren't they? Pity - I guess we'll jus thave to take the word of the ones who bothered to write it down.
well.... I read this weekend's thread..... stupid me....
Rosie..... so sorry for the lost of your pet.... animals give us such joy and ask so little in return..... please take care.....
Champ... if you really are gone.... I already miss you....
I agree with those who are puzzled over Craig's complaint of a swear all the while seeming to tolerate posts that are much more offensive to most of us.....
yes..... your idea of allowing free speech can be laudable, Craig..... but you are also giving a forum to bullies..... can't have one without the other, IMO....
Corey..... "jerk" is a good start..... I was thinking more along the lines of a word that begins with "A".... ends with "E".... and has a hole in the middle....
Bethy.... I bought it!..... went to a local bookstore this weekend and bought Umberto Eco's "The Name of the Rose" and "Foucault's Pendulum".... they both look like juicy reading......
......spots R us......cicero was a really mixed bag....left a lot of writings.....letters and stuff he composed for speaking in that great hall, and to crowds of soldiers etc......
good book about the complexities of cicero is A PILLAR OF IRON by Taylor Caldwell......
The point "courage vs. honesty" would probably be best solved by wishing for a judicious measure and fortuitous mixture of both......
the athenians were not so much idiots as they were schizophrenic according to a prof i had oncet.....
Why does the New Italian Navy have glass bottom boats?
So they can see the OLD Italian Navy.
see he's been making the rounds hawking his new book, so will ted turner soon turn up on imus and the daily show? since ted said supportive things re t boone and imus seems to like ole t boone, seems ted would be a natural for imus.... boy could that turn in to a donnybrook given their respectively volatile sensibilities.
Anon - and Huntington, WV is the worst - must be a bitch to live in the only place in the US that can't say "Thank god for . . ." I guess that explains why people in that area go to the Town Center Mall in Charleston to cruise and look at the scenery instead of the mall in Barboursville.
Pogo -
As Haley Barbour left for his governors meeting, the CDC also reported that Vermont had the lowest rate of premature births, and Miss. had the highest rate.
Just a reminder that Tylenol has requested ten songs from everyone that you either can't turn off, automatically sing along with or that makes you start dancing. As I understand the request, they don't have to be favorites or most important, just irrisistable.
jamie, I really don't know a lot about the military or the purposes for our personnel in the various duty stations, but what is the purpose of having 86K troops in Germany, Italy and the UK if you know? I assume there is some benefit to having a fair sized US presence in Europe to keep the Rooskies from getting any funny ideas, but I'm speculating. I think It might be of more concern to ask what happens to the 150K that are in Iraq if Obama pulls them out consistent with his pledge to do so (which happens to be pretty much exactly what the Iraqi parliament agreed to over the weekend - so much for Bush's insane "no time frame" rantings).
ty, "I Dig Rock 'n Roll Music" by the Mamas and Papas - I do dig R&R, but I hate that song and can't get it out of my head for about a week every time I happen to hear it. A close second - "Anticipation" by Carly Simon. Great song that I hate and sit around wondering when I'll hear again, and dreading it.
Jack, If you're around, you won't be surprised today. They're back onto Palin again.
"The point "courage vs. honesty" would probably be best solved by wishing for a judicious measure and fortuitous mixture of both...."
I think you're right Sturge.......and I think it's interesting what your professor said about the athenians being schizophrenic. I seem to remember you mentioning something another professor of yours said once defining schizophrenia (or maybe I'm mis-remembering.) What ever it was, I remember it being really interesting too. :)
Pogo,
It's my understanding that the STOF agreement only limits the amount of time that troops can remain. This is a UN requirement. It does not indicate a time-frame per se. We can be out earlier or later. It's just that another agreement would need to be signed if we stay longer.
After Obama's win, white backlash festers in US
The election of a black president triggered at least 200 hate-related incidents, a watchdog group finds.
Somehow pogo, that didn't sound like you were discussing politics when you were demeaning Palin (comic books, etc.).
I guess I missed something. It sounded more like sarcasm to me, and about the fact that you don't consider her worthy and that you constantly make it clear that she's not intelligent enough to suit you. I think it's all pretty much been said by now.
jax, my understanding may be a little limited since I just heard it on CNN while driving the highways and byways, but what I thought I heard was that the Iraqi cabinet favorably voted on an agreement that would have all our combat troops out of Iraq by 2011. That might change-that sort of stuff does, but that sounds like a timeline to me, as does this coverage of it from the Times.
"The proposed agreement, which took nearly a year to negotiate with the United States, not only sets a date for American troop withdrawal, but puts new restrictions on American combat operations in Iraq starting Jan. 1 and requires an American military pullback from urban areas by June 30. Those hard dates reflect a significant concession by the departing Bush administration, which had been publicly averse to timetables."
All of those men and women could be brought back stateside, but what do you do with them then? There is a huge amount of infrastructure that needs to be rebuilt, but the military already keeps groups such as the Seabees unemployed and restricted to base so as not to conflict with local business.
The trouble with these world wide down turns is that they tend to reveal just how much "work" is just padding and totally unnecessary which of course makes the people doing the "work" unnecessary.
There usually has to be some huge infusion of cash and/or creativity to turn things around and that can take a decade or more.
Pogo,
Effectively, I doubt that it is any more of a timeline than this upcoming one. Does anyone really believe that we would have been out by Jan 1st. if this agreement isn't signed?
I think the key thing here is that the enemy (whoever they are) can't count on a definitive period from which to base their operations on. As I understand it that is the only real reason not to have a public time-frame to begin with.
The main reason for the foreign deployment is to have units available for anything that might transpire. They are also a way of supporting the economies of our friends in order to keep them friendly. Those men and women spend a lot of money. As mentioned above, the bases are used for other government agencies in addition to the embassies.
It is all just moving the coin of the realm around in circles.
chloe, sarcasm, from me? About Palin? Surely not. But you're right, she ISN'T smart enough for me - well, for national politics IMNSHO - and she IS in the papers and she IS trying to mount an assault on a political future on the national stage (to say notihing of cashing in on her newfound celebrity), so yes I'm discussing politics and I don't feel too bad about linking a Cavett article on her that I just read this morning and made me laugh out loud or commenting on anything else about her that happens to come up - even if I'm the one who brings it up. And for the record, I didn't bring up the book deal, but I do love to ridicule Ms.Sarah at every opportunity.
Sturg-----wonderful information,,,it fills in nicely with what i have,,you provide details (names and dates) in away that is hard to refute ----that is what im trying to do----please keep filling in---i will start filing a few more names and dates---thanks
Pogo--i did not mean that gordo was in any way was making headway with you,,,just that you and him for a few weeks were going around, and around,,yet u still managed to have your usual conversations--
Chloe----yes we do----
Patd-----i was a little late this am cos i had a mean desperado on my tail last night, and had to keep one eye open, and got there by my clock(sun dial) about 15 minn late---what was your hurry,,,and now u bring in marshal Dillon (jack) well i have to even up the sides now---gonna go get whispering pete---she is the fastes cowgirl with pistolas that ever wore pants (Patsi) oh u gonna get it now
why she is so mean that she chase of a feller out from ten, and made him crawl all the way to New York city---where he never leaves his casa----just pitafull just him and 27 dogs and one cat to feed them all,,i will let u know when i come a rollin back in town, and then-------
You know, I didn't ask for all of this, but got myself caught up in it as I sometimes unwisely do. Over the weekend, Jack made a couple of jokes about the amount of time on the blog spent discussing Palin. I was simply joking with him when I made that comment. I certainly wasn't intending it to defend her in anyway. I might find some of it distasteful, but so what, go for it. I really don't care, and I shouldn't have said anything. Whatever floats you boat is fine with me - ALWAYS.
Pogo,
I guess that's my biggest issue with alot of people on these blogs. Regardless of party affiliations. They love to ridicule.....it's not enough to point out policy shortcomings, or character issues. It's the pure love of ridicule....I think it's why there is so little respect for any public official and why many good potential candidates won't enter politics.....I think that the anonymity afforded by these blogs emboldens some to behave in way that they never would if speaking in person. It's a shame but it does speak volumes about many.
Chloe----correct picking --honesty over courage ---i think that when one has honesty, courage builds up in them cos it builds character, which is what is needed to be brave???
Jamie, I figured as much - my initial point was that there are many more forces in Iraq that will have to be dealt with as we draw down than there are in foreign deployments for other purposes, and who probably won't be redeployed at any rate, and I hope that something is being done to plan for their return. I'm guessing that some will go to Afghanistan, but there could be about 100K that won't.
Jax, I hear ya, but at least the Times sees this one as different. I don't know whether you or the Times is right or wrong, but ask me again in a couple of years.
"Sarah Palin is not a goddess figure who should be held above any scrutiny or criticism; she's a politician. If she, and her ardent supporters, cannot handle that, they should all find a new focus outside the political realm, "
Oh come on, Tom. I don't think she has "ardent supporters" here. Just some who question the motives behind the constant -- and tedious -- ridicule.
Pogo,
I think it is different because things are truly winding down. I wouldn't be surprised if we drew down sooner rather than later. But i'll bet we keep some troops there longer than 3 years.
"---correct picking --honesty over courage ---i think that when one has honesty, courage builds up in them cos it builds character, which is what is needed to be brave???"
Solar, I'm beginning to wonder what I (and this blog) would do without you. Thanks.
Patsi, it seems like she does, but I'll cede the point. :-) I am curious (and I ask this because I respect your opinion) what do you think are the motives behind Palin criticism? Do you think it's worse than criticism directed at other politicians? Do you think it is only centered here or in the larger politicial spectrum?
ok..... reporting on what was said on the Diane Rehm show ....... the consensus is that the government will give the auto industry some kind of help or "bailout" if you prefer that term...... there will be a discussion on giving them $25 billion in Congress later today..... I have no opinion either way..... I am not an economist and I don't want to play one on a blog....... and no.... I did not stay at a Holiday Express last night......
Jax..... your 11:17 is spot on!....
the ridicule and the endless..... and tedious..... repetition isn't worth my time....
I'm reading less and less of this blog..... but now have more time to devote to reading books...... so I guess in a ways.... I need to say..... thanks!... :0
One of the purposes of the GI Bill following WW II was to keep men out of the work force while sending the women home. That extended educational period allowed for the draw down of the military production and the transition to civilian industries and manufacturing plus creating a pool of educated citizens that could be drawn on as needed for the mechanics of rebuilding Europe.
Then we sort of had to do it in reverse in the 60s and send all the women back to work to keep the average wage down once we were in back in competition with the world.
Now that is falling apart again with outsourcing of businesses to the lowest common denominator on wages and the elimination of manufacturing. While the world irons out those levels only the Chinese have money ... could get interesting.
jax, I said worse about Palin last weekend among Mrs. P's family, some of whom are dems, some repubs. I personally don't need anonymity to criticize Palin, or any other politician for that matter. Ridicule is part of the political discourse and criticism - and what are we doing here if we're not criticizing politicians at least in part? - and it has been pretty much forever from what I can tell - and will be pretty much forever if history is a teacher. I don't fault it - unless of course you're criticising the politicians I like. Then I get indignant.
Patsi, Palin certainly doesn't hold the only patent (or would that be copyright?) on stupid statements, does she? LOL
chloe, not to worry, I don't expect everyone to like anything I say or anyone to like everything. If you don't like it, comment on it, ignore, criticize it - it's all OK with me. Ignoring it is the only response that won't cause me to think about what I've said.
The USA has military in Europe because they have determined it in their national interest to be stationed throughout the continent. I don't think tit is necessary for American soldiers to be stationed in Europe at all, but hey, I could be wrong...
Anon,
I agree/disagree on policies and actions. However I specifically respect the government office particularly the presidency.
I didn't vote for BO and I'll probably disagree with his policies but he's my president now and I'll personally confront anyone who disrepects the office that he holds.
You learn in the military to respect ones position and to follow orders regardless of your personal opinion. It's necessary in the military.
At the very least you'd think as citizens we could at least respect one's office.
I am relieved. I was getting worried it had been three whole days with no Palin bashing.
Pogo
go for it,
There are day when being a bleacher bum is fun.
LOL
Buuuuuuuuuut.
It is one thing to go to Wriggly and yell obsenities at the outfielder. It is another to understand why that outfielder is standing in front of you.
I love to see the way the game is being played I'm not much of a bleacher bum most days
But as I said some days when the beer is plentiful and the sun is warm there is no better place in the world than a right field bleacher seat at Wriggly. ;-0
"... the consensus is that the government will give the auto industry some kind of help or "bailout" if you prefer that term...... there will be a discussion on giving them $25 billion in Congress later today..."
Renee, I think that sounds good (even though I shouldn't have an opinion either, as I know nothing about it). But if they make this an incentive to move them in the right direction of developing vehicles with alternate forms of fuel or at least better mileage, etc., it could mean a lot more.
jamie, I know that there have been changes in the GI bill even since the VN era, but I don't really know the details. My limited understanding is that the educational benefits aren't as robust as they were before. Regardless, education through the GI Bill certainly would be part of the post-Iraq planning. Good thing, too, the job market's gonna suck unless something dramatic happens in the economy.
Pogo,
My oldest is in college now and he says that his classes are full of Iraq/Afghanistan vets and that many are Nat'l guard/reservists. He knows one well and he is doing 2 years of school and going back for one year in Iraq next year. then he'll come back and do 2 more to finish school.
I don't think there's much doubt that the gov't is going to do something aobut the auto industry' swoes, (unless the Shelby's of the world mont a filibuster and get 40 senators to support it) the queston will be whther the money comes from the $700B set aside already or the $?? already there to help Detroit develop cleaner cars. The way Paulson's been dancing, I wouldn't be too surprised to see Congress amend the$700B bailout legislation to include Detroit as a target for the funds. Or not.
ET----i think that courage came first,,,it was needed to evolve,,,honesty( and the brain)had to be developed as group protection from predators and rivals was needed in order to survive---morals are innate in all animals,,and therefor honesty , that has to be developed---the wolf pack is a good example no?????
pogo,
I agree, I personally benefitted from it. It's not for everyone but you have be thankful that we live in a country that can offer this opportunity. Some make it a career but most use it as a stepping to better things.
Speaking of not idiots, I'm always amused how one can throw out odd ball references, as my Roman one last night, and how many people will pick it up and play with it.
I'm begining to suspect that the quality of not idiocy around here is very high.
Change that. No begining or suspect about it , it is very evident.
Octavian and his successor for a couple centuries were called Princeps. This title denominated them as the First Citizen, with the right to put in the first word on any topic in the Senate, thus setting the agenda, and letting folks know what to think. The title Emperor wasn't used until much later.
Athens 'democracy' was actually an imperialist demogoguery. They enslaved their allies in the Delian League, stole the League treasury and squandered it on the Parthenon They slew every man, woman, child, puppy, and chicken in Mytilene for seceding. They sent their army off to a fight an elective war in a faraway place and only one man came back alive to tell of the disaster.
Sparta was a parasitic, fascist, war machine, fed and clothed by the labor of the conquered Helots, enslaved on State owned plantations.
It is hard to decide which society was more repulsive.
How our founding fathers ever found the political gold among all this dross to invent the successful American polity, is a mystery to me. The story that Franklin, particularly, urged the model of the Iroqouis seems as reasonable as the theory that we modeled on Athens and Rome.
jax yeah, my other bro in law just got out last year after putting in 20 in the army, durig which time he got a dgree he would not have other wise gotten and stayed out of jail, which it is likely he would not have been able to do had he not gone into the service. It didn't turn him into anyone I'd want to live next door to - he still has his major demons as a human being, which IMHO haven't been lessened at all, and have perhaps even been exacerbated - but he's probably a whole lot better off educationally and occupationally now than he would have been in all likellihood.
A bailout of the big three automakers will not succeed without addressing the labor cost issues. They will still not be able to compete with the other automobile manufacturing plants operated in the US that have lower labor and benefit costs.
Xrep,
Athens did show that being democratic doesn't ensure that you are a good neighbor.....and the Roman Republic despite being democratic was no peach either.....
I love the choice the Roman republic offered its neighbors. Resist and we will conquor you and enslave everybody or become an ally and provide the soldiers for us to expand our empire.
Let's see, a political candidate who knowingly whips-up the darkest forces in the human heart, and uses human ignorance as a political club, I'm not supposed to ridicule ?
I'm supposed to be "fair" ?
A political candidate who's prescription to our complex energy problem is :
"Drill baby drill" and "Mine baby mine".
I'm supposed to treat as a serious and thoughtful person ?
A political party that forbids the mention of condoms as part dealing with a world wide plague ?
I'm supposed to respect ?
A political party that treats some faith based movement as having the same scientific value as the entire fields of biology, geology, astronomy, and physics ?
Jack,
A lot of parallels are drawn between the US and Rome but I think that example shows a big difference. In the end their miltary was largely made up of conscript non-citizens. It is given as a signifcant reason for Rome's downfall. The citizenry had no real stake in the empires defense.
That's not true in our case. The miltary is still made up of a volunteer force drawn from every constituency group. It is still truly a citizen army.
" Do you think it's worse than criticism directed at other politicians? Do you think it is only centered here or in the larger politicial spectrum? "
Against my better judgement, I am answering Tom's question....others scroll on....
I absolutely do think that the criticisms took on a more personal nature than with most.
First, she's no dumber than a helluva lot of other Republicans, and some Democrats as well. She did not take any more anti-gay stand than half of the Republicans and again, some Democrats. She did not govern Alaska as a fundie crack pot.
Boiled down, her "see Russia from here" comment is no different than many similar comments made by states talking about illegal immigration from Mexico. They are talking about proximity. BFD.
In the beginning the slurs were absolutely sexist, regarding her family, her supposed hottie status (progressive bloggers referring to her as a MILF)....but in the end, the ridicule turned to class.
She couldn't afford an Ivy League school, and ended up attending several colleges. She entered a beauty contest to pay a tuition bill, and so has been ridiculed as "the beauty queen." . I have a niece who did the same. The college issue became increasingly class conscious, even to the point of some bloggers sneering at community colleges as being for people too dumb for 'real college.' I have another niece, a PhD, who started out at a community college to save money before heading on to a four year school. Again, BFD.
The clothing issue: too much money? Sure. But as I said then, I know country music stars who drop 30 to 50 grand at a shot and never see the bills. The larger issue is that these days, middle class people cannot run for office. If she'd married "up" like John Kerry, John McCain and others, she would have had appropriate clothing to "represent" the GOP.
Slurs against her state for not being "cool." Slurs against her husband the "fisherman."
Criticism (much of which I agree with) about the culture of those western states where wild life is looked upon differently. But it is the culture she represents.
Her religion. She is a fundamentalist who was put on the ticket to energize the base, which she did. And her campaign did what most VP campaigns are supposed to do -- attack the opposition and allow the presidential candidate to take a somewhat high road.
Drill-baby-drill -- while a stupid cheerleading chant -- is what a lot of Americans now seem to believe. Including some Democrats.
Bottom line: the thing that irritates me the most is that many of the catcalls are repeats of things that were said and never substantiated, in fact, denied by those involved. But the meme remains.
I think she's far less "dangerous" than Bill Frist, Sam Brownbeck, Mike Huckabee, Newt Gingrich, Bill Kristol, Grover Norquist and a boat load of others.
And trying to turn her into trailer trash is --uh, trashy -- to me.
Genghis Khan,,,,,,the Mongol warrior--also adopted the roman philosophy ofResist and we will conquor you and enslave everybody or become an ally and provide the soldiers for us to expand our empire.
Patsi is right. I think it is a mistake to underestimate the intelligence of Sarh Palin. I have been watching her for several years, and she is shrewd about most things. She came from a small, backward, rural, welfare state, that is ownedand run by Texas oil pashas. Thus, she brought few dollars and fewer votes to the ticket. Palin's mistakes as a running mate were due to her strict adherence to the republican marketing plan and spingineers. Palin didn't enjoy the benefit of 30 years soaking up foreign policy. Nonetheless, she made fewer FP gaffes than mccain. If there was and idiot in this race it was the prisoner, himself. Palin ran hard and was a good soldier.
She might have the diseases that are killing off Alaska's republican pols: avarice and hubris. We've seen a few symptoms, if we are to believe the muckcainites.
Btw, Honesty is premier. If you have that, you rarely need Courage.
The GI bill has been severely curtailed which is why there has been so much talk about redoing it, but McCain voted against the Democratic version and I believe Bush may have vetoed (would have to check).
Now that we have a Democratic congress, I would hope we would take care of these men and women once they return.
How are we expected to respond to the inclusion in the latest edition of the Collins Dictionary of the word "meh"? With an indifferent shrug of the shoulders, would seem to be the obvious way. We might say: "meh." It’s a wearisome stunt.
In a lot of ways the Roman Republic looked like a cross between Haiti and the USSR. With the worst of both dominating.
I think we all were corupted by college TA's who idolized everything Greek and Roman and we never understood the dark underbelly of their politics. I kinda got lost last night going through wiki reading about some of the characters of the Roman republic.
They did things that would have made Richard Daly Sr blush.
patsi, your 12:26 is right on. she may be an idiot but no more than most of them or us.
et, your "find a new focus outside the political realm" might be just what she's got in mind. remember her career bent was media centered. like huckabee, she may find more gold mining the cable fields.
chloe, to be honest, it takes courage to be honest sometimes.
The Tylenol request drove me crazy. Every single slot has been deleted and replaced with something else repeatedly, and I still wasn't able to keep it down to ten plus cheating with the Beatles.
Even by religiously holding to songs that when first heard MUST be listened to until they are done even if you look like an idiot sitting in the driveway singing along, I reserve my right to continue changing my mind every 30 seconds.
So many words so little time.
I think I will spend my time creating and expanding my own.
Ex. the other day I told the kid working with me to hand me the lawyer, and I point to a big hammer. He ask "why did you call it a lawyer?" Because I said, "Like a lawyer it is something you can use in dispute resolution"
jaxtrader,
Rome collapsed from a plethora of weaknesses: Latium was no longer the Empire's chief potter, all the provinces made pots. Also wine, cheese, oil, and iron. The Empire, as a tool for trade, became unimportant. Provinces then thought they could go it alone. We could say that Rome fell because it became irrelevent.
Rome was over-extended : To defend the northern borders they let in a few barbarian tribes (cheap militatry labor) to serve as buffers and became dependent on them. Meanwhile, legions were progressively shifted toward the Eastern Front. These barbarians were mercenaries, and had no allegience to the Roman State. The value brought in by the vast northern provinces was far less than the expense of keeping them in the Empire.
Barbarian raids, rebellions, and marauders led citizens to trade their citizenship rights for the protection of strongmen. Thus fewer and fewer people had a stake in the State. Strongmen began to flout government authority with impugnity, and eventually became the government.
Add lead cups and water pipes, climate change, the red plague, local pride (provincialism), the enormous public cost of Bread and Circuses, and the movement of the center of power to Ravenna and then Constantinople. After awhile, all these erosive and corrosive elements became stronger than the elements holding things together. The Empire was dead long before it finally keeled over.
It would be cheaper in the long run to give the employees (from middle mangement on down) that $25 B!LL!ON and let the gashog companies die a sudden death.
Rather than addressing the quality of cars that are being built in the USA... the Republicans keep complaining that the problem is "labor costs". The same Repugs never seem to complain about the out of bounds wages and benefits that the corporate masters guzzle inward.
Patd----sorry maam---as i tip my sombrero with my left hand cos--i think its just a trick--keeping my right hand on my hip next to my six shooter---speaking of shooting--i guess i just did shoot my mouth off ----i wasn't sure if you belonged to the stinkin man side---or the take a both every 2 hours of the side,,,but u know that u gals pick up on the smelly odor of man,,,being a construction man myself,,,,i do stink,,,,and will continue to do so until my wife baths me:-) and cleans me up in order to dirty my up again,,,and then baths me again----it never ends----oops i hear the shower going---later
Bowman....
one thing I learned from this morning's DR Show was to have a bit of sympathy for our domestic auto industry.....
the #1 rule of manufacturers is that you have to make what the public wants to buy..... and they were doing just that..... it was pointed out that during the 90s SUVs and trucks easily outsold sedans 3-1....
they made a good profit on those vehicles and couldn't compete with the profit margins the Japanese were making on smaller cars because of the costs of labor..... healthcare, pensions, wages, ect.
Toyota makes cars in this country by cutting deals with local governments not to have to pay all those labor costs in exchange for bringing jobs into the area....
it's really not fair that Ford or GM are told they have to honor their legacy costs while Toyota and Nissan were allowed to start something totally new here, IMO.... that's not a level playing field.....
Good point. The hordes of Central Asia found that a reputation for slaying all resisters opened many doors the first time they knocked. Their advance men made propaganda about the horrible things that happen to resisters. In fact, before the 1400s & big guns, seiges were extremely expensive, and often failed. It was cheaper to frighten people into surrendering. As blood-stained empire builders go, I'm a fan of Genghis Khan. He was much less brutal than Alexander, the Romans, the Crusaders, or the Conquistadores, all of whom practiced genocide.
Regretfully I don't think that anyone has the political will to allow the auto makers to fail. I personally don't see why we don't let them at least file for bankruptcy and then look at a bailout.
Pogo - you probably have some knowledge of bankruptcy proceedings...what wrong with allowing them to go into chapter 11 and restructure
solar, while i admire your choice of patsi who you describe as "the fastes cowgirl with pistolas that ever wore pants" she may be quick on the draw with powerful killer words, but she's no match for my friends and mentors belle s and annie o.
Renee,
The foreign car companies did come into low wage areas and bring jobs but don't forget. The union allowed them to came in at the new hire rates. They knew what this would do to GM and Ford and were complicit in not equalizing the legacy costs.
It seems crazy but they essentially provided the labor to undermine their own pension and healthcare system. I'm still trying to figure out the rationale.
I thought the auto companies spent those TENS of B!LL!ONS of $$ in advertising in order to talk us into buying what we don't need and can't afford.
We gave these companies bailouts before, and they used the money to pay lobbyists and give bonuses to the execs. Before we give 'em any more money, make them produce vehicles that get 50 mpg, make them cut their marketing budgets by 50 %, and their lobbying budgets by 80%, and roll the execs pay back to less than $1/2 million/year (they earned it). Otherwise, just give the $25 B!LL!ON to the employees, and auction the assets to pay the debts.
Patsi,
I've toured the hospital here in Houston and most everyone I've talked to here says the care is good.
I could take advantage of the services but I still prefer private care.
XR---genghis khan ----was admirable in many ways---my favorite way is that he did gave his follower a sense of belonging to something---he was a very humble man,,and while he was ambitious, he wasn't a tyrant ,,,it's been a long time that i studied him, and will stop here but that is what i remember most for right now----
South Korea sold over 730,000 cars in the U.S., while the U.S. sold only 3,811 cars in South Korea in 2005. South Korea uses a variety of tariff, tax and non-tariff barriers to insulate its domestic manufacturers from foreign competition, while exporting more than 70% of the 3.5 million cars and trucks it builds each year around the world.
As to the big 3, there's some truth in all of that. Another problem the big 3 have is inability (or unwillingness) to retool and respond to market trends until Toyota, etc. have already anticipated and staked out market share. I drove past the GM Lordstown assembly plant mid day Saturday - not counting the 6 tractor-trailers in the parking lot, there were 7 cars there. 7. There's a big sign there talking about the Chevy Cruze being on its way - apparently not on the weekend.
Pretty smart of those Koreans to get rid of as many smog and traffic jam creating beasts as possible. Pollution and gridlock are bad enough over there, without a mess of f150s and hummbugs making things much worse..
The mental health and the head injury problems are both enormous. republicans shrunk the VA while inventing the Iraq fiasco. The pain and suffering this causes people is atrocious.
I don't think Palin is lacking in intelligence. The media, who are now beginning to admit how biased they were, made her look bad. They can make or break anyone at any time. I imagine she knows as much or more about energy issues than anyone. That is the number one reason why I support her. She wants to drill. And I think she's right about that. She never said that was the lone solution, but I believe Alaska has holds the answer to our energy problems, not only in oil but in natural gas.
MSNBC and CNN could have ruined Obama in a couple days had they wanted to. He gave them more than enough. He didn't always sound like a genius. But for some reason, it was the game of the season to destroy Sarah Palin right out of the box -- even with Carl Cameron's "anonymous source" and him twittering about nothing but gossip after the whole thing was over. I haven't heard anybody admit it except MSNBC, but I imagine the anonymous source, the McCain adviser, was none other than the non-person Martin Isenstadt.
jax, bankruptcy has changed some over the past few years - from GM's (example only) perspective, it depends on what obligations the court would approve restructuring of. Big bankruptcies often work out well, but not always. Legally, bankruptcy might seem like a good idea for the big 3 - it does keep the wolves from the door at least for a time. But bankruptcy sends ripples through the world of creditors of the bankrupt - which include suppliers as well as banks. The creditors get stiffed at one level or another - for instance if Corey's company was owed $1M, the workout might give them half that,which they wuold have to figure out how to fit into their business picture. If the workout %age is high enough, Corey might get to keep his job, but you can bet GM would go to a cash basis with the suppliers, which depending upon their access to credit, might effectively shut them down. If they could restructure everything so that they have sufficient access to credit or cahs and can order and pay suppliers and their labor force so that it doesn't kill everyone below them in the supply chain, it is probably a good thing. I realize there's a lot of speculation in this, but the unknowns are much greater than the knowns right now.
Pats-------NOW --u had to go and get me all riled up----im a gonna get my favorite pony cheyenne over by the madam(chloe)that runs that women parlor in town( don't know what all those near nekid gals do their all day---but they's a always dancin and carrin on like there was no tommorro----i don't care as long as she served good red eye-----whyski is not allowed----since we don't take kindly to any one named jack---or jack daniels hahaha-------ok u asked for it ------i see all those smart ass women in your videeeo,,,,,,,and see what u can do against one of the mostes meanest famileees thar ever was-----Hos ,,,little joe, ben, and all the CARTRIGHTS(wrights??), and the little meanst china cook ever was----see u by the Ponderosa---little lady
One thing about storms, when they begin to pick-up things and smash them into other things, the level of destruction increases dramatically.
Anybody that thinks this storm we're in has slowed down , ain't paying attention. And anybody that thinks the flying debris from the American auto makers being swept away won't drive into their lives , well they're just foolin' themselves.
GM Collapse at $200 Billion May Exceed Bailout Plan (Update1)
Pogo,
I'd just like to see a more well thought out plan for the car companies. I think that bankruptcy would give everyone some time to really look at what's required instead of another knee jerk bailout.
It would also allow for the new administration to look at it with a few months of history to judge the effects of the existing bailout plan.....
as someone who does take advantage of the VA Medical Health Care, I have to say by and large my care has been extraordinary. Almost no one has been rude to me at any time. There was a doctor that was sorta cranky but I think I just caught her on a bad day.
I recently broke my ankle and I had to spend a couple of days at the hospital in out patient clinics and I did have to wait a little but probably no more than I would have under private care.
I have been in the system for a few years now and it is getting more crowded. I was lucky to get in when I did as I did not have service related injuries. Without the VA I have no health care.
jax I hear ya. I'm really wandering in the wilderness wrt the big 3's problems and how they could best be addressed. If it just boiled down to money, it would be pretty simple (in relative terms) to address. I think there is much more to it than that, though. Bankruptcy might be the best approach, but the timeframes in bankruptcy cases are awfully short to try and straighten out the problems that have brought the core industry of our manufacturing sector to the brink of, well, bankruptcy.
Take that back! You will hurt my Cavalier's feelings. She will be ten years old next year and has never had a major problem of any kind, just keeps going and going with lub jobs and tire changes.
Anon..... ROTFLMAO!!
(being a woman..... I don't have to worry about the weeny thing too much)......
geez..... just when I wanted to take the afternoon off and get into my book about the great whites.... you guys post some really interesting stuff and give me much food for thought....
Jax.... that union angle is completely new to me..... the angles to all the points of view and facts on this subject could obviously fill a book.....
Pogo.... I'm glad you mentioned Corey..... knowing that his job could be at stake helps me to see this problem in terms of real human beings' lives....
I buy my gasoline at a local Mobile/Exxon station..... I have friends that won't touch the place because they're pissed at that company's record profits....... though that attitude is understandable..... I point out that the station is owned by a local man who has no control over their profits..... he's been with Mobile for years and I assume it wouldn't pay him to switch to another company...... I go there because I support him and his family....
it can be fun to bash big corporations..... especially it's CEO's.... but let's not forget they mostly consist of regular people just trying to make a living.....
Pogo,
I'm with you. I just get the impression that in the next 2 weeks congress is going to come with some ill advised, not well thought out, plan that won't work and we'll end up at bankruptcy anyway.....
Those "legacy" costs are huge. The question is what would be cheaper for the government. A bail out now that could just be more money down the drain unless it had all sorts of strings attached or let them go into bankruptcy while the taxpayer picked up the tab for the guaratee on the pensions and came up with some sort of "universal" health plan to cover all those workers.
Bankruptcy might actually spur the move to a health care plan that would cover all companies.
I don't know what it is about "Whiter Shade of Pale" by Procol Harem, but I simply cannot turn off that song until it is over. It just has an hynotic quality.
I change my list so often, the keyboard has holes in it.
"Anybody that thinks this storm we're in has slowed down , ain't paying attention. "
There has been a trend here that appears to be growing. People losing their jobs in mid-life and moving back supposedly to care for elderly parents. But after a bit of conversation, you realize that's not it at all -- it's because there is no work here. And Nashville is said to have a strong work market. The "open house" I'm attending tomorrow is one more case.
The substance of the woman is shown by ET's, Pogo's, and others' post-election fixation on her. If there was nothing there, there, she would have instantly gone the way of Mrs Dole.
Drilling simply isn't the answer. First the supplies aren't great enough. Second, there is not enough refinery capacity even if communities would allow a new one to be built. Third the damage to the environment because of burning that fuel or leaks into pristine areas is horrendous (Alaska is still suffering the effects of the Exxon Valdez). For the second year in a row, the Northwest Passage will not freeze over.
Just as the Amazon is the lungs of the planet, the polar regions are the cooling system. We have to stop burning this stuff.
With supplies becoming limited, oil is getting too valuable to burn. In fairly short order, what oil we have will need to be reserved for things made from petroleum. It can't be wasted on our automobiles.
The sooner we can transistion to alternative fuels the better and if it can be electric for the cars either via battery or solar cells, even better. This is going to take time and a lot of creative brain power. We have put it off far too long.
The mean fellahs ah them stinkin' cayuses over crosst the crick, the Cartwrongs.
Meaner'n scorpeens and maddern hornets on hot day, thay'uz. The'd shoot a man fir smilin' ar string 'im up slow fir laffin'. Ah tellya firshir, them'r mean unz.
jamie,
Exxon Valdez was 20 years ago (1989). The last report that I saw from Alaska game and fish was the estuary has made a remarkable recovery and that it is cleaner than before the spill. It's in a Texas Parks & wildlife mag....I'll see if I can find it.
You guys are coming up with one great song after another. At the moment, I have Barry Manilow's "failure" album playing in the background. Since it is the best album he ever made, if you have never heard 2:00 AM Paradise Cafe and like jazz and piano plus two duets with Sarah Vaughn and Mel Torme, buy it.
Hello all- Here's my songs I"ve got to listen to or start dancing.- 10 is a wicked short list, Seems kinda like sacrilege to not have listed Beatles, Springsten, Clapton, U2, Patsy, Bonnie.JT.........
Xrep
Don't know that much about....it was just a quote from some Alaska game and fish guy....I do have some experience with marsh remediation however and I can tell you that most ecosystems are sufficently resilient to recover after 20 years if corrective action is taken....in most cases much less time is required.
tylenol-----u r a trouble maker--period---now i can't get one of the dumbest songs ever made out of my head------u try living with wooly bully--wooly bully all dsy ----thanks a lot :-)))
Not Recovering
These resources are showing little or no clear improvement since spill injuries occurred: Common loon Cormorants (3 species), Harbor seal, Harlequin duck, Pacific herring, Pigeon guillemot
Recovery unknown
Limited data on life history or extent of injury is available. Current research is either inconclusive or not complete: Cutthroat trout, Dolly Varden, Kittlitz’s murrelet, Rockfish Subtidal communities
Recovered
Recovery objectives have been met: Archaeological resources, Bald eagle, Black oystercatcher, Common murre, Pink salmon, River otter, Sockeye salmon
It should be noted that nature is more complicated than we would like.
An example would be the Pacific herring listed as not recovered.
They are a major link in the food chain of Alaskan waters.
wait a minute....
was this a list of stupid songs you can't get out of your head or a list of songs you have to stop and listen to when they come on the radio?....
my list is for songs I love that I have to stop and listen to when they come on the radio....
sorry Jamie..... me voluntarily listening to Manilow..... no can do.....
it's just one of my quirks.... but I'm happy you like to listen to him..... :)
Same with me renee, but there are a couple that I can't turn off even if I turn them off, if you get my drift(Anticipation being the last one I've had to endure on and off for hours after having heard about a bar and a half). The other 8 I let play and won't let Mrs. P turn them off.
Acute Mortality
Scientists estimate mass mortalities of 1000 to 2800 sea otters, 302 harbor seals, and unprecedented numbers of seabird deaths estimated at 250,000 in the days immediately after the oil spill. Mass mortality also occurred among macroalgae and benthic invertebrates on oiled shores from a combination of chemical toxicity, smothering, and physical displacement from the habitat by pressurized wash-water applied after the spill.
-----------------------------
Remember this was just stuff we found on the beaches, everything that died and sank in the ocean didn't make the list.
a stupid song I must listen to..... hell.... I even sing along with it..... is the one with the lines..... if you want to be happy for the rest of you life.... never make a pretty woman your wife..... so from my personal point of view.... get an ugly girl to marry you.....
I don't know it's title.... I don't know who recorded it..... I don't want to look it up...... it's stupid.... it's premise is sexist...... but I sing it every damn time it comes on the radio...... go figure!.....
RR not fussing at you. I'm not a manilow fan either except for this one album.... His money making power ballads just aren't my thing, but I just love the meloncholy blues of this album and the fact that it was all done in one take just a group of musicians and singers getting together to do wonderful things.
I have posted a question on Facebook regarding when it's appropriate for Americans to put up Christmas decorations. I am chomping at the bit, but in Belgium, you are to wait to after Sinterklaas... I am getting differing opinions and would love to hear about other folks' traditions...
I am tentatively planning for this week... but am still soliciting opinions...
The best Barry Manilow album is 2:00 Paradise Cafe .. best song "WHEN OCTOBER COMES" I love singing along with it... Not so sure the neighbours appreciate it, but I love to sing... so they have to deal...
Damages Cut Against Exxon in Valdez Case -
June 26, 2008
The plaintiffs have received an average of $15,000 each as compensation, and Wednesday’s decision means they will receive a similar amount in punitive damages.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/26/washington/26punitive.html
-----------------------------------------
What I found funny was that the Governor of Alaska couldn't recall a single Supreme Court case except Roe V Wade. When her own constituents had waited 19 years to be screwed by the Supreme Court.
Remember Hazelton was drunk that night when he put the ship on the rocks.
Also some fan mixed Barry's "I'm Your Man" song to a montage of Lee Majors photos! The album MANILOW was Barry's only foray in a totally original music album on RCA. Shortly afterwards he returned to Arista.
AAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!! (Thank god I can't open youtube here, and won't when I get home).
ET - the Christmas decoration date gets earlier and earlier. Used to be Thanksgiving, but stores have had decorations up here since the day after Halloween, and the guy in our neighborhood who wants his house to be seen from space began hanging his lights a week ago.
Jamie.... ETom beat you to it.....
but thanks to both of you!..... now I know who did it and what he looks like....
and speaking of sea creatures..... I'm reading this fascinating book by Susan Casey entitled "Devil's Teeth"..... it's a non fiction book about the great white sharks that spend 3 months (mid Oct-mid Dec) around a group of uninhabitable islands only 27 miles away from San Francisco called the Farallones...... the same sharks return there year after year..... and the scientists studying them can identify them from scars on their fins..... the islands have been sanctioned as wildlife preserves and you have to be permitted to land on them..... Ms Casey was allowed to spend some time with the scientist in order to write the book.....
How d'you do, I see you've met my faithful handyman
He's just a little brought down because when you knocked
He thought you were the candyman.
Don't get strung out by the way that I look,
Don't judge a book by its cover
I'm not much of a man by the light of day,
But by night I'm one hell of a lover
Pogo -
The one thing we've heard for years out of the Federalist Society is that the constitution is to be read as written. If it ain't there, it don't exist as a right.
But the rights of corporations do not appear in that document, and only through judicial activism were they extended rights .
I once came across a list of worst music by well known musicians. The top of the list was LaBamba by the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. I had to get a copy. Imagine LaBamba performed as a stately pavane.
My personal choice was a 1943 NY Philharmonic performance where Toscanini and the orchestra disagreed as to which page they were on, turning a movement of a romantic symphony into a sort of shoenberg cacaphony.
".... I don't know who recorded it..... I don't want to look it up...... it's stupid.... it's premise is sexist...... but I sing it every damn time it comes on the radio...... go figure!....."
ROFL -- I know what you mean, Renee....it's a funny song -- always makes me laugh. Jimmy Soul had the hit.
Yes, Anon, I've always been intrigued by the concept of a corporation as a legal person that sprung out of the Dartmouth College v. Woodward case in 1819. I'm not sure, but I believe that was after the Constitution was written.
In 1881 Congress voted to grant corporations the characteristic of personality. This personality is what gives them standing in courts. Without personality, corporations were dependent on majority stockholders to speak for them. Personality allowed corporations to safely operate without a majority owner, facilitating the creation of the titanic modern corporations.
Lack of personality is also what means foeti have rights.
Thanks, solar - that got it right out of my head. I'll have to remember that and think of Ernie Borgnine singing Carly Simon whenever I hear it - I can't even make that work.
one of my all time personal favorites is Mack the Knife by Bobby Darin.....
a selling trick for clothing or accessories (ie.... my scarves) is to give catchy names to colors...... example.... one of the hottest sellers at the moment is anything called "Autumn Orange"..... you can't just write brown on the tag.... you have to call it "Expresso" or "Mocha"......
I made a series of white scarves with a blueish, pinkish accent thread thrown in...... I had to name them something..... here I was reading this book on great white sharks and had just listened to Darin's classic tune...... so I named them "Pearly White"..... they are selling quite well.....
Wiki's is a fair recount of the legal decisions that led to the 1881 legislation you mentioned - although it isn't referred to specifically. Once the courts said corporations could sue and be sued, they became persons under the constitution. You may find it interesting reading.
The question was to name one case OTHER THAN Roe v Wade and she couldn't come up with one despite the fact that a major one involving the citizens of her state had just been decided days before and made all the headlines.
Jamie -- If that's the way the question was actually framed, then the answer was poor. I also know that I could put together questions for damn near anyone that would end up making them look stupid...but what the hell.
Lest anyone think I'm the only feminist bitch pissed about some of this continuing coverage, check out this short article where the male writer suggests an unscheduled hysterectomy for Palin. Then be sure and read the comments. ROFL...makes me look like a sweetie.
The topic was a bit more complex than simply naming another case. Asked which decisions, other that Roe, she disagreed with, her responses went as follows:
PALIN: Well, let's see. There's --of course --in the great history of America rulings there have been rulings, there's never going to be absolute consensus by every American. And there are -- those issues, again, like Roe v Wade where I believe are best held on a state level and addressed there. So you know -- going through the history of America, there would be others but--"
COURIC: Can you think of any?
PALIN: Well, I could think of -- of any again, that could be best dealt with on a more local level. Maybe I would take issue with. But you know, as mayor, and then as governor and even as a Vice President, if I'm so privileged to serve, wouldn't be in a position of changing those things but in supporting the law of the land as it reads today.
Chole----had to fit u in there somewhere-----as miss kittie ,seemed good,,,felt in one of those silly moods today cos Patd woke up early and accepted my challenge,,hey don't complain i got Patsi in as whispering pete,,,the fast cowgirl with pistolas that ever wore pants--hope she didn't read it
Patsi, My reading of the blog has been kinda spotted today, as I've been in and out a several times. But your 12:26 was a great post and I'm so glad you wrote it. No one says it better than you. Thanks.
We supposedly got 7 inches of snow here today. Yeah, I went back to work last night. I am working this week and then we are off again next week. It would have been a short week anyway with the holiday. They got rid of all the temps at work. Things didn't seem quite as bad as I was expecting last night. But, I talked to some maintenance guys since they usually travel around the place to ask them what they knew. They basically told me that things were gonna be very slow. I know that people hate the fact that the Big 3 might get help, but something needs to be done. Otherwise, their problems will trickle down to all their suppliers, big and small.
Anon -- I could find a dozen examples of politicians stumbling over questions, misrepresenting, outright lying, or-- uh -- plagiarizing.....
Primarily, the best of the best are great at covering what they don't know. They dance, bob, weave and pontificate. You know damn well they are doing it, but ya gotta hand it to 'em.
I'm not saying she was prepared on the issues to answer questions. But I don't think she's some little trailer trash twit, either. She was smart enough to come from nowhere, with no contacts or financial backing, take on the Republican establishment and win the Alaskan governor's office.
You can sneer at that accomplishment, but I do not choose to do so. And while I may differ with her politics, I won't participate in attempts to turn her into a laughing stock.
I recognize that Palin has definite talents, particularly in delivery of speeches written for her or when she is safely spouting right wing, knee jerk slogans.
When left on her own her thinking and speaking became hopelessly muddled to the point of not being able to construct a coherent sentence.
She seems likeable enough as a person as long as you don't get in the way of her ambitions. Her speeches towards the end of the campaign were practically an invitation to violence. I'm not sure if she realized what she was stirring up, but some of the people in her audiences were downright scary.
Here's my dancing list
Oh What a Night Frankie Valle
Go To Rio Peter Allen
Blue Room Rogers and Hart
I need a New Drug Huey Lewis and the News
The Freddie Freddie and the Dreamers
Louie Louie Richard Berry
You make me feel like dancin’ Leo Sayer
Can’t help myself (sugar pie honey bunch) Four Tops
Come see about me The Supremes
Start me up Rolling Stones
Many years ago at work, we did dancing and lip synching to music in a contest for our summer picnic. One department picked Meatlof's "Paradise By The Dashboard Light". Most of us sat there thinking..."Why the hell would they pick this song?"
"Never confuse ambition with brains. They are not the same thing . See the current occupant of the White House as an example"
lol
one problem you Palin basher seeem to always miss.
Your comparison with GWB is apt in this case.
GWB got where he was because of who he was.
Palin got where she is because of what she was.
She boot strapped herself , to where she is,
Whether you agree with her positions or not, that is a fact that you ignore at your peril if you are a playa on the national scene.
Not just being an evangelical, she is straight forward and comfortable with her religion. She can connect with religious people of all stripes. She reminds me very much of a friend who is a liberal pastor. She comes across as real. Bush's religion always felt contrived. imo
Would you say as opposed to Obama having an unprecedented amount of help Jack? Or would you say he did the same thing as them, and got to where he is because of who he is?
could not get the 10 songs thing.....I could name 10 great songs easy enough......I started writing them out and it wouldn't work......the artistry in this question, or project, lies in being able to narrow it to ten......I'm not sure I can do dat.........
I'd didn't realise Lisa Murkowski was so hot, I'll pay more attention. It must be the whale blubber ya'll eat up there. Whale blubber and moose stew , eh?
;-0\
*sigh* just kidding-I couldn't help myself. An now, she hasn't, she has been an ok governor, and am I biased because she gave me an extra $1200 this year, probably, but I still don't think she was the best pick for VP.
Vice President Dick Cheney "retires" from Halliburton with a sweetheart deal, golden parachute plus deferred comp in the millions. Halliburton then makes godzillions on a war that Cheney insisted was vital to our national security. And anyone who raises an eyebrow about it is dismissed as a conspiracy kook who is too stingy to give Cheney the benefit of the doubt.
Now comes Hillary Clinton, whose SPOUSE has a global charity foundation may or may not create hypothetical future conflicts of interest with countries unspecified. And THAT is considered enough, prima facie, to disqualify her from being Secretary of State? Somehow the burden of proof that Cheney skated right past is now reversed for Hillary? Bull-hockey to that.
I don't minimize her accomplishments. It's just that all the politicians who drag their fundamentalist beliefs into the public square scare the hell out of me. They keep insisting they have the right to walk their dogma on my lawn.
When you couple that with the truly weird tiny percentage willing to bomb, murder, and injure for the sake of their position on God, I don't want them riling up the crazies.
Jack -
Yep , she got Bill Kristol and Grover Norquist to take a boat ride on the inside passage and charge a bunch of jackasses a lot of dough to hear their views on the next star of the wing-o-sphere.
good lord. Did I start this Palin stuff this morning because I laughed at Dick Cavett's article? If so, I offer my deepest and sincerest apologies. ;-p ( :-) )
I can't imagine Senator Clinton actually wanting a cabinet position. Why choose to work for someone else unless she has to ? Why step down before 2013 ? It makes no sense.
A Supreme Court nomination would be a different matter.
rosiethecat - you in Alaska?
I got family up there so if you know anyone with family that was in Key West and Alaska - with connections in Orlando, Dallas and Savannah...
Then chances are !!!
One cuz was on an oil rig and the other in the Appliance biz - It is a small state so I am sure you bump into them...
And the one cuz that was on the rig I think also has a home in Hawaii
Brains without ambition gets you nowhere? All I know is Palin's getting $7 million to write a book. Not a bad deal for someone who a lot of people think is dumb!
You've warned here for weeks that Palin's critics are somehow plagued with political tin ears and dismiss her at their own peril. Yet all the empirical evidence from the last two months of the campaign was that the more everyone got to know her, the less they liked her. Even some of the most fervent backers in the base have had to grudgingly concede that.
So, as a good Democrat, my attitude is as follows: I hope Sarah Palin continues to be on television every day and the Republicans have to find someone else to be their standard bearer.
The Clinton thing is all smoke & mirrors. It is a setup, where they say she would be great SOS or whatever, there is only this one little problem with Bill's finances. So sorry, we tried, now play nice.
Politcians who embrace religion do well where I live. As I pointed out last week, McCain won West Michigan 60% to 37% over Obama. There are people who hate the thought of religion being an influence on a politician, there are others who welcome that.
XR, th' missus this weekend said she can't imagine why Hillary would seek Sec'y of state if there was the possibility that either a SCOTUS appointment could be considered or that she might have an eye on the governorship of NY after Paterson's term is up. The second possibility had not even occurred to me.
Ping- I need a family name. Most people up here are not from here. Interesrting FYI, just the other day the paper said by the year 2010, whites will be the minority in AK.
#3. Size people up quickly, and develop rigid attitudes based on your first impression. If you try to delve deeper and get to "know" people, you're asking for trouble.
It's just that all the politicians who drag their fundamentalist beliefs into the public square scare the hell out of me. They keep insisting they have the right to walk their dogma on my lawn.
When you couple that with the truly weird tiny percentage willing to bomb, murder, and injure for the sake of their position on
God, I don't want them riling up the crazies.
Post of the month-----end religion,,,and u will end wars, terrorism ,,or damn near
Maybe so, Corey. But I'll see your western Michigan and raise you a place in Michigan that means more. Obama pulled Macomb County 53.3 to 44.8. That's pretty amazing. He did it right in Ground Zero for Reagan Democrats who care more about pocketbook issues than cultural issues. Apparently they weren't buying what McCain-Palin were selling.
My cite would be virtually every post-election poll I saw that listed the Palin choice as THE major drawback for McCain among voters, putting it above even the age factor and the overalll erratic factor (or perhaps being mutually exacerbated by both of those factors).
The percentages were among all voters, not just those voting for Obama.
I didn't see a single poll saying Palin helped McCain draw support beyond energized voters in the base. (I'm not saying that just because I didn't see them doesn't mean they don't exist. I just didn't see them. And I watched a lot of coverage)
You didn't see those polls? They were pretty much on every network and cable channel and in every newspaper.
It's definitely more empirical than east coast punditry.
And I think it explains the post-election fascination with Palin. She's like watching a car crash or the fights at a hockey match. Hell, even I'm fascinated by her. But that doesn't translate into wanting her to be president.
Oh I know, LL. Oakland County will not be represented by a Republican for the first time since 1933. I'm just saying people here still overwhelmingly supported Republicans.
"Would you say as opposed to Obama having an unprecedented amount of help Jack? Or would you say he did the same thing as them, and got to where he is because of who he is?"
Chloe
I was thinking of Obama when I wrote the comparison between GWB and Palin.
My gut tells me that both Palin and Obama got simi;lar help. You don't move into the higher offices as both Palin and Obama did with out some high powered mentors. We know who many of Obama's but I don't have a clue as to Palins. Which is kind of weird with all the silly season stuff that was passed around as news.
There are a number of folks who got where they are because of who they are. Al Gore come to mind, all the Udall cousins, Any Kennedy, Any Bush, HRC herself.
There you go, that was her job.
That is also where she has an opportunity to return. When she does it will be as a moderate with strong religious convictions.
Also, the widely videotaped fact that she stoked racist feelings in campaign crowds that were 99.9 percent white only to turn around on Nov. 5 and try to ride the Obama feel-good-about-ourselves wave is a level of hypocrisy that won't be lost on most Americans.
I think if this election proved nothing else, it's that Sarah Palin has no concept of what the "real America" really is. And she'll have to do a boatload of repositioning of herself to convince voters otherwise, even four years from now.
" just kidding-I couldn't help myself. An now, she hasn't, she has been an ok governor, and am I biased because she gave me an extra $1200 this year, probably, but I still don't think she was the best pick for VP."
Agreed, Rosie -- she wasn't the best if they'd had a chance to win, which they did not. But without her the loss would have been HUGE.
Jack. Fair enough. I think we both agree that "repositioning of herself" is a huge part of Palin's path forward. And we can agree to disagree on the degree of repositioning.
But, then again, Palin isn't going to be the next VP. McCain isn't going to be the next president. One day, we will focus on Obama and Biden and how they are doing. Not Palin and book deals etc...
I think I've taken up my share of bandwidth (and hot air width) tonight, so I will take my leave and try to just lurk for the rest of the night.
Nice seeing you all still active and alert, and I'll catch you later.
--Lardo.
Jack...I'll grant you that last point as well.
This country has been known to do dumber things even than electing someone like Sarah Palin.
(That's the only reason I'd be worried)
"Now comes Hillary Clinton, whose SPOUSE has a global charity foundation may or may not create hypothetical future conflicts of interest with countries unspecified. And THAT is considered enough, prima facie, to disqualify her from being Secretary of State? Somehow the burden of proof that Cheney skated right past is now reversed for Hillary? Bull-hockey to that."
" It's just that all the politicians who drag their fundamentalist beliefs into the public square scare the hell out of me. They keep insisting they have the right to walk their dogma on my lawn"
Yet she didn't govern that way. You are projecting.
Palin excites the 'base' which is white and uber-conservitive. But aren't the Rep.s trying to redifine themselves as more inclusive? Where is that going to leave the 'base'?
Do you understand the connection between McCain not using the Rev Wright video (which we know does exist) and his decision to not use MO "whitey" video?
------------------------------------------
McCain / Whitey Tape
I was listening to the Tom Joyner Morning Show on the way home from work. One of the guys on the show said, "Did you notice how everyone was talking about Hillary Clinton over the weekend?" He said that Obama was gaging Hillary's interest in the SOS position. He said people were questioning why Obama would offer her a position in his cabinet. He said that people forget how Obama looks at Lincoln and how he chose people for his cabinet. He picked the best people for the job, regardless of his relationship with them. He said the position of SOS would be a good move for Hillary because she really wouldn't have any power in the senate. The only obstacle in her way of becoming the SOS was Bill Clinton.
"Yet all the empirical evidence from the last two months of the campaign was that the more everyone got to know her, the less they liked her. Even some of the most fervent backers in the base have had to grudgingly concede that."
Not so, Lard. Her base -- or the one invented for her by the RNC -- is the religious right. Unfortunately, she might have gone another direction. Worked with Democrats, downplayed her fundie tendencies. But NO -- the same asshole "progressives" who trashed Hillary Clinton found new meat -- and right wing meat at that. So all of the Democrats could condone the BS. Now she's in the pocket.
I worked with so many women like her in the 70s feminist movement. And they ended up standing with us about the ERA. Now we've got a-holes turning them away in droves.
Are telling me Palin is no Phil Kline, Kansas former Attorney General. But She could be a John Ashcroft though. While he was Governor he was a moderate conservative who left his religion at home. It was when he went to Washington that he changed.
"But aren't the Rep.s trying to redifine themselves as more inclusive"
Rosie
That was the former strategy, Bush's. He wanted to expand the culture wars into the Latino and Black communities. I saw some local evidence of it working in 2004. The problem is everytime he strayed to far thye racist wing of the party would raise it's head and remind everyone why they were democrats.
Corey..FYI on Janine Turner, from her current Wiki entry. I guess we shouldn't be surprised that there are conservative actors who rose to stardom on vehicles (like Northern Exposure) informed by liberal values:
"Turner was born Janine Loraine Gauntt in Lincoln, Nebraska, the daughter of Janice, a real estate agent, and Turner M. Gauntt, a pilot who attended West Point and flew for Braniff for 30 years.[4][5] Her father is from East Texas, while her mother is from South Texas.[6] She has a brother, Tim, and was raised in Euless, Texas.
Turner lives on a longhorn cattle ranch outside of Dallas, Texas, with her daughter, Juliette Turner-Jones.[7]
In the early 1990s she dated Mark Grace of the Cubs and even appeared during a game with Harry Caray in the broadcast booth.
As a conservative Republican, in the 2008 election, she campaigned for VP candidate Alaska Governor Sarah Palin and expressed her concern for what she perceives as a decidedly liberal bias in the media as a guest on the Fox News Channel show Huckabee on October 25, 2008 and on the CNN show Larry King Live on October 28, 2008. Turner is a frequent contributor to Republican Party candidates and organizations, donating at least $7,000 over the past decade.[8] She has endorsed the McCain-Palin ticket and is currently working as a spokesperson for Team Sarah, a women's group supporting Governor Sarah Palin's Vice Presidential candidacy.[9]"
"Is a Palin a feminist this week? It's hard to keep track. "
And you are such a great judge of that....becauase, gee, weren't you with Betty Ford, Pat Schroeder and the rest of us who were working across lines back in the ERA fight? Oh, maybe you were not.
Phil Berg on Alex Jones
------------------------------
I don't agree with everything Berg and Jones say in these videos.
------------------------------
just catching up with thread ---looks like u r all Palin ed out so
Jesus--continued
The jewish historian Flavius Josephus was invited to go to rome after Vespasian became emperor( flavius predicted that he would become emperor) he was given roman citizenship,,and spent the rest of his life writing books explaining why jews had revolted against rome and why he himself had defected to the roman side,,he could not have fabricated the basic facts of history...the events recounted by josephus makes it clear that guerrilla activism and the jewish military-messianic consciousness rose and fell in synergetic waves.-----the country was filled with strange holy men who spoke in parables and allegories and made phroohicies about he coming battle for world dominion...successful guerrilla leaders inspired rumors that flourished in the light and shadow of these perennially renewed messianic speculation. a steady stream of charismatic leaders stepped forward into the glare of history to claim messiahship,, at least two of hem precipitated insurrections that actually shook the foundation of the roman empire.
Herod the great first attracted the attention of his roman patrons because he waged a vigorous campaign against a bandit chief who controlled an entire disrict in northern galilee. according to josephus, herod trapped this bandit chief whose name was Hezekiah, and executed him on the spot,,,,but we know that Hezekiah was a guerrilla leader,,,,that soon led to herods appointment as puppet king of the jews in 39 b.c.
upon herods death in 4 b.c.uprising took place in all outlying areas. Varus, the roman governor of s
Syria, restored law and order. He captured 2,000 rigngleaders and had them all crucified this wvent occurred in the year that jesus was born-----Judas of Galilee soon emerged as the leader of the main guerrilla forces. he "aspired to royalty" and at times characterizes him as a very clever rabbi. in 6 a.d. the romans tried to carry out a census,,,judas warned his countrymen would resist cos the census would lead to nothing less than complete slavery,,said that the jews have no king but jahweh,,jahweh would surely assist them if they had faith in their cause,,,,those that submitted to rome were treated as enemys
jesus actively began to preach his messianic doctrines about 28 a.d. at that time a shooting war was being fought, not only in galiee , but in judea, and jerusalem as well. the jesus cult was neither the largest not the most threatening of the rebellious situations with which Pontius Pilate, the roman governor who decreed jesus death, had to contend.----Pilate transgressed the Jewish taboo on graven images in Jerusalem,,later pilate was surrounded by another angry mob protesting the misuse of temple funds for the construction of an aqueduct. ,,,,A HA( i bet that not too many know this little nugget?),,from the Gospels we know that Jesus himself led an attack on the temple, and that some sort of uprising took place shortly before Jesus trial, since the popular bandit Barabbas and several of his men were in jail at that point...
After Jesus was killed, the romans continued to try to clear the Judean country side of bandits Josephus reports that an other great bandit chief named Tholomaios was captured in 44 a.d. shortly thereafter , a messianic figure named Theudus appeared in the deseret. Hhis followers abandoned their homes and posessions and madded on the banks of the jordan River. Some say Theudas intended to make the waters part as they had done for joshua.others that this messiah was going the other way westward, toward jerusalem/ No matter-the roman governor Cuspius Fadus sent the cavalry, they beheaded theudus and slaughtered his followers.
Change of topic: the media is slobbering about Obama's team going over all of Bill Clinton's dealings while raising money for his foundation and library. Former President Clinton is now being investigated by the Obama administration. I wonder if George W Bush will be under that same scrutiny.
"My gut tells me that both Palin and Obama got simi;lar help"
"Actually, Jack, I was thinking of the help he got from the media's preferential treatment (you could hardly say they were nice to Palin), the party, and the financial contributions, not to mention the mentors and backers he must have had working with him for years."
ps
And I do think Palin helped McCain more than hurt him.
5 Myths About an Election of Mythic Proportions
#5 "For skittish conservatives looking for more evidence that McCain understood their needs and concerns, Palin did the trick. It's hard to imagine conservatives rallying to McCain -- even to the relatively limited extent that they did -- without Palin on the ticket. And without the base, McCain's loss could have been far worse." http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/13/AR2008111303287.html
Meshiach (messiah) means annointed. It does not mean messenger, savior, son of God, or God. Annointing was part of the coronation ceremony of both high priests and kings. There are about 9 messiahs (I don't have time to count right now) mentioned in the Bible. So, talking about THE messiah is as ridiculous as talking about THE Philadelphia Philly or THE founding father.
Lard -- I had the pleasure of interviewing Dr. Spock for my college newspaper decades ago. I met up with him at a clean energy rally on the Mall in Washington DC. We stood at the fence separating the backstage area from the VIP area. I told him that my mother raised me according to his books. He said. "I am profoundly sorry. I know much better now than I knew then." He introduced me to his wife, Mary, who he identified as a "fiery feminist." Then beckoned me to walk with him to the VIP tent where he introduced me to Pete Seeger, Holly Near, Bonnie Raitt, and Wavy Gravy from The Farm. He treated me like I was the VIP, and spend a lot of time answering all my questions and telling me all about his wishes and dreams for the world. Definitely a major moment in my young life.
Posted by: Patsi | November 17, 2008 8:08 PM :
"Change of topic: the media is slobbering about Obama's team going over all of Bill Clinton's dealings while raising money for his foundation and library. Former President Clinton is now being investigated by the Obama administration. I wonder if George W Bush will be under that same scrutiny."
Damn, I hope so. I only hope that they aren't considering Laura for SoS. :>D
As i said before-----David the founder of the first and largest jewish empire claimed ( claimed is the key word -ok) to be in divine partnership with the jewish god jahweh....the people called david messiah (Hebrew Mashia) a term wich ghey also applied to priests, shields davids predecessor saul, and davids son solomon...So messiah originally meant any person o hing possessing great holiness and sacred power.
Alaska leaned toward muckain before he picked Palin. She brought Alaska in at a hefty 38 - 60%
It's not her fault that Alaska is a political pipsqueak.
If she'd been from OH, FL or CA, she might have made some really big noise, and been able to raise a huge pile of bucks for that final campaign smear. Fortunately for Dems, muckain chose to pick a running mate from Alaska, where sled dogs outnumber humans. Thanks, john.
Patsi -- I was at an amazing gathering of 100 political women yesterday in McLean, VA. The gathering was for the newly-launched "Farm Team" a group that is geared to recruit, train, and support women for political leadership in Virginia. Virginia has one of the lowest numbers for women office holders in the 50 states. Anyway, Ann Lewis was there telling us that Sarah Palin's candidacy has forever removed the ability of conservative men from saying that women who are also mothering young children shouldn't be office holders and should stay home with their children. Lewis also said, "It's not about getting Congress to *dress* like women -- we want to elect people to Congress who *think* like women."
Another interesting point of discussion was there are only six state delegate seats needed to flip the state house to the DEMs in time for redistricting. Six of the districts currently held by some of the most odious of the GOP went strongly for Obama and the DEMs. This includes the district currently held by state GOP Chair Jeff Frederick who compared Barrack Obama to Osama bin Laden during the campaign and refused to take down his words, even when he was denounced by fellow GOPs.
She is the "junior" senator from New York. There are a lot of bodies between her and a major management role in the Senate. Ted Kennedy has health care locked up and that is her major focus. She has already stated that she wasn't interested in the Supremes. Biden has said he wants to concentrate on the domestic side of issues. That leaves SOS as a major high profile, activist, and power position. It is second only to the President. As long as she is a good soldier on the Obama team, it would be almost ready made for her talents.
not to god and his chosen people,,,remember that david was a guerrilla fighter first then a king---his empire only lasted about 550 yrs?,,some think the he was the original terrorist --lived just like bin laden live now --in caves---and runs his campaigns from there?? that is why they invaded other countries,,in order to increase the size of theirs-----such a small matter to disagree with me on---the frigin size of his empire?
"Anyway, Ann Lewis was there telling us that Sarah Palin's candidacy has forever removed the ability of conservative men from saying that women who are also mothering young children shouldn't be office holders and should stay home with their children."
Yes. And the surrounding ugliness has energized some Republican women like I have not seen since the mid-70s.
Im almost through with this messiah stuff ---but i see that it is going to take a little more to get to the serets of jesus---them r neat stuff----u won't believe it but he------oh just wait ha
there was a lot of talk when Janine turned up pregnant and unmarried that the father of her daughter was Steven Jones whose father Jerry owns the Dallas Cowboys. I don't know if that was ever proved to be true but according to the daughter's last name that Steven may in fact be the father.
XR --- you seem to find something wrong with all that i write-----see if u can find something wrong with this piece of info about god...
A nursery school teacher was observing her classroom of children while they were drawing. She would occasionally walk around to see each child's work.
As she got to little Sarah who was working diligently, she asked what the drawing was. Sarah replied, 'I'm drawing God.' The teacher paused and said, 'But no one knows what God looks like.'
Ya. I suppose the studious life on the SCOTUS would be a crashing bore the excitement of the campaign trail. I know that I'd need a permanent coffee IV, and I didn't even run for soil and water district commission.
There is nothing that she could not do, and do well. However, it would be a sad thing to have her serve in any subordinate position unless she absolutely loves the work.
Here's my thinking: The health Senator has his own health problems. If Senator Clinton can successfully push a real health care program through Congress ("named for the late, great, Senator from Massachusetts who was ever the strong advocate for...."), our grateful nation will respond to her call when the time is right. They probably will anyway.
Hubert Humphrey and Tom Daschle were a junior Senators, too. Senator Clinton rightly commands tremendous respect.
If I say that I don't find something wrong with everything you write, will you please not accuse me of arguing with you again.
Yes, David was a guerilla fighter. A freedom fighter, and a committer of atrocities, during an era when all war leaders committed atrocities.
You are not up against me, honest. You are up against folks who think that the Bible is about Good people being Right. In fact it is about normal people who are struggling, with great difficulty, to become better people.
no i want u to explain what do not agree with,,,but don't quibble of the size of an empire-----or tell me im ridicules ,,if it is important to the conversation yes by all means---if i get a name wrong,or a date that is important to the general over all scope of a particular topic,,,keep it to your self,,,,,,,if it is on another subject other than this one---fire away,,,there is too much out there now to go over every fine point (past)---ok?
"I agree with those who are puzzled over Craig's complaint of a swear all the while seeming to tolerate posts that are much more offensive to most of us..... -- posted by RebelliousRenee"
i didn't limit my concerns to just swear words, RR, here's what i also said:
You convinced me. I would avoid doing anything to put Teddy in a snit before he leaves. She probably hasn't long to wait. I'd be kind and open the door for him.
When I took an ancient history overview from the late (and once famous) Romanologist Tom Jones, PhD, he stressed the small size of David's realm.
Students who had Sunday School diplomas that made them experts in ancient history and geography, had the guts to stand up and argue that David's was a Major World Empire. Apparently, kindly old Miss Tuohy, or whoever, had said so. And who was this Dumb old world renowned Romanologist to disagree ? Anywhat, I was amazed at the number of students who thought that a sphere of influence within a line from Akko to Damascus to Beersheba to Gaza was a Major World Empire. 20,000 sq miles ? Maybe that big. So, when you used the word empire, I wanted to make sure that no one was thinking of it the way Sunday School experts do.
The State Department is huge with a lot of duties and a lot of power. The Secretary's main function is to keep the world from blowing up while keeping the President advised of what they are doing. When run well it is a great partnership.
When done poorly as it has been for the last eight years, it can be a disaster.
Madeleine Albright the first woman SoS under Prez Clinton is still a close friend, so you bring in even more expertise.
Right now the world is a God awful mess. It looks to me as if Obama is trying to assemble as brilliant a group as he can find no matter who they are or know. If he can herd the cats, it should be impressive to watch.
Why, do some of you people still find it necessary to keep bashing Gov. Palin? And, I hope HRC, turns Obama down. He is only doing this, because he figures, if he gives her a position, she won't try and run against him in 2012.
Heaven prevent anyone from thinking that I am a fan of rice, but howinell could anyone work the job, as you describe it, in an administration where the president channels messages from Jesus, and the government is run by a boozed up VP, who reads the SoS's mail before she gets it, is an insufferable martinet, and who is a fan of Mussolini, to boot ?
Since drunkendickcheney shot his pal, and his familiar was convicted of lying to the FBI, together causing cheney's downfall, rice has made real progress. Instead of being follicle deep in the elephant dudu, we are now only lip deep.
Sec'y of State Clinton could sleep through 8 years and still come out looking like a healer and miracle worker when compared to our republican foreign policy catastrophe and long international nightmare under babybush.
Patsi -
When you're in the desert at night, and a large group coyotes come near, they sound like women laughing, and talking when the sound first comes to your ear.
Hey Solar
All is good with me! Hope all is good with you and your family? I have been enjoying your posts on religion and its history and I have learned much.I am amazed at your knowledge on the subject.I have always stayed away from organized religion since I started thinking for myself.Thanks keep up the good posts,oh and the back and forth with xr,superb!! Hey do me a favor and send 90's back down to Florida...HA HA Only 74 today.I need some heat....
Funny we completely ignored "Joe the Plumber's" new book. Due Dec. 1st, should be a real page turner.
More layoffs at Focus on the Family
UPDATE: Focus on the Family announced this afternoon that 202 jobs will be cut companywide — more than 20 percent of its workforce. Initial reports bring the total number of remaining employees to around 950.
Focus on the Family is poised to announce major layoffs to its Colorado Springs-based ministry and media empire today. The cutbacks come just weeks after the group pumped more than half a million dollars into the successful effort to pass a gay-marriage ban in California.
Anyway, while folks are on the topic of motives, that was what motivated me to chime in about David's acreage. It had nothing to do with you and everything to do with still being annoyed, after nearly 45 years, about some dopey college students who interrupted a lecturer to whom I loved listening.
Regarding that little girl's picture of God, when I was a lad, in a really racist sexist era, someof us were having a conversation about humans creating God, or at least envisioning God in our own image.
One guy told the story of a Black girl down South, who got a such a terrible fever that everyone thought she was going to die. In fact, at one point they thought she did, and called the preacher over, but then they came around. The preacher said, "We thought you were dead." The little girl replied, "I guess I was, 'cause I went to heaven." "You did ? Did You see God ?" "Yes, Reverend Brown, it was wonderful. I saw God !"
"What did God look like ?" "Well, She was beautiful, and She was Black."
"Presidential candidate Alan Keyes, vice-presidential candidate Wiley S. Drake, and the Chairman of the American Independent Party, Markham Robinson, have filed suit in California Superior Court in Sacramento seeking to bar Secretary of State Debra Bowen from certifying to Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger the names of Electors, and from transmitting to each presidential Elector a Certificate of Election, until documentary proof is produced and verified showing that Senator Obama is a “natural born” citizen of the United States, and does not hold citizenship of Indonesia, Kenya or Great Britain.
In addition, they have asked that the court issue a peremptory writ barring Senator Obama’s California Electors from signing the Certificate of Vote until such documentary proof is produced and verified."
Anon---pbs has an hour long of 2o hours that i have taped---including who wrote the bible,,, the most interesting are the dead sea scrolls----the exodus of moses---not at all what has been thought all this time is the truth---there is proof of the carriages ,remains found of stables that housed them,,,but they did not at the red sea----they crossed at a river that has a very similar name (will come to me) but all is very interesting,,,also the true facts about Ramses thanks
I wonder if you go down that stream if you can find remains of an Egyptian army.
King John of Robin Hood fame was nearly drowned at King's Lynn when a river bore swamped his wagon train. The original crown jewels and John's portable chapel were washed away and lost forever.
xr---i will find were i put that info---yes there are remains of an egyptian army---they found were the soldiers fed and housed the horses that were used for chasing moses---moses is not all that people think he is ---another great myth---night
RR - that's great you bought Eco's two books! The Name of the Rose is a straight forward novel, but the other is very different and I never finished it. When I read books like Foucault's Pendulum, I want to do it in a a classroom setting or with people I can discuss it with. There's so much to make out of it that I can't keep it all in, I guess. Maybe I'll give it another shot.
Solar and xr - you just keep putting out info that boggles my mind. If you ever do anything so mundane as read fiction, have you read anything of Steven Saylor's series?
The link to The Promised Land is much appreciated - that will take care of a number of Christmas presents.
Also, the Dick Cavett column was funny - I haven't read him for such a long time, I didn't remember him as being so condemnatory, tho.
As for Sarah Palin, I didn't seem to hear the criticisms of her that were because she's a woman - my concerns re her were her thought processes and how they didn't go far enough. I do think she helped the repub ticket because, let's face it, none of the men were going to brighten anything. Romney - groan! all they would have done is bored people to death. She added some life at least.
As to her religion, any politician who wants my vote has to state openly and OFTEN, he/she believes 100% in separation of church and state. Even then, said politican might not get my vote. Just because her church hasn't figured in her political career , that means nothing. That could change in an instant.
Jack - My dad hated Ashcroft and Danforth both. When Ashcroft was up for AG, I remember seeing a committee hearing, inc Patrick Keahy, where a prof emeritus of Northwestern or Univ of Chicago (??) testified against Ashcroft on the religion issue, saying that in Missouri in the ag's office, Ashcroft had worked to get fire saftey regulations reduced for parochial schools. I never heard anything re how he kept his religion out of his politics - just saying.
Songs - I had a very different reaction to the reqest for Top Ten Songs, but when I read your lists, I had to agree with most. Understand, I know nothing about Pink Floyd or Men At Work or Led Zeppelin, and didn't recognize a lot of the songs you guys named.
I was thinking of songs I just had to sing along with, and the first one that came to mind was the 1812
Overture, especially the end. The next one was
Waltz across Texas with You by Daniel O'Donnell.
Bohemian Rhapsody and a couple of Janis Joplin's, too.
Then I realized I hadn't mentioned the Intermezzo
from Cavaliera Rusticana. The Ride of the Valkyries is great fun to sing with, especially the hooting part.
The Anvil Chorus and the Grand March from Aida - that was played every year for the entrance of the debs at the Veiled Prophet Ball. Au Fond du Temple! oy vey!
That one makes my heart and breath just fly, and my sisters want to hit me cuz I can't NOT try to sing it.
But the all time favorite, I think, is the Romance of the
Gadfly, the theme to Reilly:Ace of Spies. I would like to suggest it as my candidate for another list - the most
sensual and erotic music.
SURELY, this crowd can come up with some other suggestions, always bearing in mind that this is public more or less.
i don't agree with much of palin's politics ' but she had one thing right '' energy independence should be
america's number one priority'' if we had that 700billion
we sent over seas this year circulating in our economy
things would look a whole lot less bleak right now.
the democrats will soon be in charge of everything '
whatever are they going to do when they can't blame
bush and the republicans . they will soon find out
it's not as easy to be at the helm and take responsibility
as it is to point fingers and criticize
Hold on, Im Coming.........sam and dave
midnight hour..............wilson pickett
Whole lotta love............Fred Zeppelin
Vesti la giubba...........leoncavallo
Ave Maria...............schubert
Tell me what'd I say............ray charles
From a Distance................Bette Midler
Sing Sing Sing............Benny Goodman
If he walked into my life............Edie Gorme'
Abraham, Martin, and John...............Dick Feller (author)
Hallelujah..................leonard cohen
witchcraft............Frank sinatra
that old black magic............keely smith and louis prima
Maybelline...........chuck berry
Bye bye love............everly brothers
the boxer...........simon and garf....
mqw......compare and contrast: the economy in general and the federal debt level at the end of Clinton and at the end of Bush.........We'll just have to go with the HOPE, eh? Looks SO much better than the last 8 years of certitude, rectitude, and general theivery in the administration of the oil kings........
yes we can always hope
the democtics have been in charge of the congress
for two years' they have gotton a free pass on that
i would say show me what you've done
don't tell what your going to' lets see some results
before the celebrations
the democrats in congress have been stymied from doing ANYthing by the fact that the numbers are 50 + Lieberman? What exactly are they supposed to be able to do with a non-filibuster proof majority?
Answer: against republican dinosaur mentalities cleaving to one another in rabid support of a criminally oil-soaked administration........Nothing.
But stand by......there's going to be some action after January, eh wot?
and as far as "dont tell me what you've done" is concerned........what the GOP "has done" for the last 8 years, in spite of the almost rabidly attempted secrecy, is really out there for all to see, regardless of the lies, obfuscations, and half truths they have attempted to foist on the american public.........
such as: oh, those wascally democrats have been in charge for 2 whole years and what have they done?
got my hand on my wallet' i'm sure someone will be
reaching for it soon
--mqw
have you been in a cave the last 8 years? were there a lot of things "trickling down" into your wallet lately?
ha ha ha ha, jeebus, man......how on earth could anything be worse than the last 8 years........how much do we owe china, by the way? think that'll ever hit your wallet?
It looks as if there have been billions and billions siphoned away from the "war effort" by neo-con cronyists Halliburton, KBR, Bechtel, Blackwater, etc etc...why dont you ask them to help you out with your wallet.......Im sure they'd be happy to share.......
sturg
i was in no way shape or form trying to defend bush
or the republicans' just saying that the democrats
are just as capable of screwing up ''just in different ways
I can dig it.......I guess it is that I happen to happily anticipate those "just in different ways" units.......I know, a politician is a politician and all that up in there, but a democrat is not a republican................so to speak
".....Obama's team going over all of Bill Clinton's dealings while raising money for his foundation and library."
must be hunting for that precious donor list they wanted during the campaign and couldn't get.
another reason some senators might like to see hrc gone from senate is that they backed down on promises made to her when she was expected to win (iow doing a richardson) or they owed her big time for past campaigning efforts she did on their behalf but subsequently backed obama. your word is supposed to be your bond in the senate and now they're seen as reneging on theirs. a gentlemen's club? hah!
"another reason some senators might like to see hrc gone from senate is that they backed down on promises made to her when she was expected to win (iow doing a richardson) or they owed her big time for past campaigning efforts she did on their behalf but subsequently backed obama. your word is supposed to be your bond in the senate and now they're seen as reneging on theirs. a gentlemen's club? hah!"
Well said pat! And it makes perfect sense. I love your "hell hath no fury like a senator scorned". I know from personal experience that really is true of women (at least this one) :)
What about the gentleman's club (the good old boys club is what I call it) Is there no such thing, and that's just paranoia too? Allow us our venting. It's built up for many years and it needs to be released. I'm sure you have your share of frustrations too.
Obama Should Look to FDR Not Lincoln
"
In the last week, I've spoken with a gaggle of experts, some of them in finance, some in real estate and some in just plain investments. I've interviewed media magnates, both foreign and domestic, an investment banker, a manufacturer, and a former banker. This is what I have to report: Economically, we're in a recession. Psychologically, we're in a depression. The reason: None of these experts knows what to do.
.....what he might not appreciate is that among his many gifts, the one that might matter most is how close he can come to Rooseveltian enthusiasm, that optimism, that capacity for empathy that made so many ordinary people love this rich man and stick with him. Lincoln, a sometimes melancholy and somber man, belongs, as Edwin M. Stanton said, "to the ages." Roosevelt belongs to ours." http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/11/obama_should_look_to_fdr.html
"I think you Clinton folk make a mistake in ascribing some "anointed status" to Hillary in terms to her relationships in the Senate."
It's not that. We just like her and think she's good for the country. And yes, we think she is deserving. She got a huge amount of votes and that should stand for something. She didn't win the prize, Obama did. But that doesn't stop us for want representation by her too.
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Comments
Hi y'all.
tt
Posted by: tiptoe
| November 17, 2008 12:14 AM
Hi y'all, again.
tt
Posted by: tiptoe
| November 17, 2008 12:15 AM
Oh, this place is getting weird(er).
tt
Posted by: tiptoe
| November 17, 2008 12:16 AM
This is the closest I have ever gotten to being 1st.
Posted by: xrepublican
| November 17, 2008 1:03 AM
Do you think we're alone in here ?
Posted by: xrepublican
| November 17, 2008 1:04 AM
Yoohoo, tiptoe,
Are you here ?
Posted by: xrepublican
| November 17, 2008 1:07 AM
XR
Champ doesn't hate anyone---he is actually a kind man with a smart ass mouth and the intelligence to back it up---about gordo,,,he defends him like he does others,,,,, i believe that he thinks that gordo has every bit a right to post here as anybody else,,,and i agree --what i do is not read gordo cos i don't think it is fun anymore ----for me the fun in the gordo posts is that it drove almost every one nuts---i don't think that i could ever win an argument with pogo, but gordo had him going around and around,,,champ also felt that gordo never said anything rude to anyone, or anything that demanded excomuinication,,,,and i agree once again,,,just go past his post, to make him vanish---that is unless u want to tell every one here that he is a----and a----but that doesn't matter---gordo will be gordo, and take it all in like the gentleman that he is,,,champ will recover his sense of humor and then watch out,,sorry if i did not represent you too well champ,,but is callls them likes i seees them---night
Posted by: SolarCrete
| November 17, 2008 1:10 AM
Craig
synergetic-- all i believe in just one word!!!!!!!!
Posted by: SolarCrete
| November 17, 2008 1:20 AM
Tip Toe,
If your there. Good to see your track marks ;0)
Been awhile
Posted by: Chef Sheila | November 17, 2008 1:28 AM
Tiptoe - you are so funny when you're first - you make it seem like a haunted house!
Posted by: bethyboo
| November 17, 2008 1:36 AM
GORDO's posts are redundant & boring. He seems to think that filing a paper with the court makes a case legit. It may just waste time and money. Courts don't act on idle speculation. pogo, others and I have repeatedly explained this to him. GORDO replies with the exact same bs, and writes that WE don't understand ! I don't have to be kind to liars. GORDO has a right to post here if Craig says so, 'cuz this is Craig's house.
2. I disagree about champ. I think champ is a champion hater. He is rude to me and others for little or no reason. He has repeatedly accused me of twisting things, when he actually didn't bother to read what I wrote. When he has made false accusations against me, I have cut and pasted my posts and put them back up to prove that I never wrote what he claims I did. When he is shown to be mistaken, he doesn't apologize. You may think he's a gentleman, but I think he is funny, rude, and filled with hate.
Now, I've wasted more of your time and my time than either of them deserve. It's getting late. Good night.
Posted by: xrepublican
| November 17, 2008 1:56 AM
Sorry, I meant to address that last to SolarCrete.
Posted by: xrepublican
| November 17, 2008 1:58 AM
Senator Shelby ( Sunday MTP) really cast a pall of gloom on any hopes the government will give the automakers $25,000,000,000.
And still somebody thinks we should kick in $12,000,000,000 every WEEK to throw down that goddam rat hole in Iraq
Priorities . Out of line.
Posted by: DexterJohnson
| November 17, 2008 2:31 AM
xrepublican -----------------
"... and writes that WE don't understand !"
YOU don't understand !!!
Posted by: GORDO | November 17, 2008 2:33 AM
ok, solar, it's almost sunrise.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVnoaPPpWog
Posted by: patd | November 17, 2008 6:05 AM
and solar, warn you fair and square.
jack's ahidin inna wood pile over there.
course he jus might be rollin in the hay
puttin oft this frey like he did tother day.
naw, cuz'n jack, he haint yeller
jus a cautious like feller.
see ya when's sun sa peekin up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKLvKZ6nIiA
Posted by: patd | November 17, 2008 6:15 AM
Good morning, patd! Watching the last half of The Mist this morning....it's less depressing than the news.
I do hope Solar and Xrep keep up the biblical banter -- interesting stuff.
Posted by: Patsi
| November 17, 2008 6:46 AM
An appraisal from the Keno Twins :
"Well it looks like The Algonquin Round Table has termites."
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 6:52 AM
Patd -
Thanks . I love me some Lee Van Cleef -
http://www.westernposterpage.com/angeleyes1.htm
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 6:58 AM
the trail of the end of the Roman Republic......Old time cash poor aristocrat Julius Caesar's daddy because he needed money, let mine-rich Gaius Marius, who needed social standing, marry Julius' aunt......Marius made it possible for Sylla, at first a penniless young degenerate aristocrat to eventually rise to the level of Dictator....Sylla the Absolute Dictator made circumstances possible for Julius and Pompeius Magnus to have a civil war for control of the state, which war Julius won. After his stabbing near the statue of Pompeius, Julius' adopted nephew, Octavian and Julius' old buddy Marcus Antony aspired both for sole control of the state and had another civil war over it which Marc A. lost.....Octavian, being smart and young took full advantage of the situation and assumed full control of the state.......the senate remaining largely ineffective and largely enough easily bought was no help and unable to effect anything very "republicky" at all.......this all started about 10 years before Julius was born and culminated some short years after his death (JC 100bc to 44bc).....the marriage of Julius' aunt was in 110 BC and by 27 BC the republic was history.....although it had already been made history by Sylla's and Julius' dictatorships much earlier......
Posted by: sturgeone | November 17, 2008 7:00 AM
Fifty-nine presidents of public universities reeled in more than $500,000 in salary and benefits during the 2007-08 academic year, more than double the number who broke the half-million mark three years earlier, according to a survey by the Chronicle of Higher Education released on Monday.
http://www.abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=6266263&page=1
-------------------
More bread, more circuses .
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 7:05 AM
E. Gordon Gee of Ohio State University sat atop the salary heap for public university presidents in the survey, bringing in $1,346,255.
What's the unemployment rate in Ohio ?
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 7:09 AM
"...the senate remaining largely ineffective and largely enough easily bought was no help and unable to effect anything very "republicky" at all....."
sturge, trail of the end of the republic? sounds more like the end of the republicans these days
Posted by: patd | November 17, 2008 7:12 AM
the end of Cicero:
Cicero's last words were said to have been, "There is nothing proper about what you are doing, soldier, but do try to kill me properly." He was decapitated by his pursuers. Once discovered, he bowed to his captors, leaning his head out of the litter in a gladiatorial gesture to ease the task. By baring his neck and throat to the soldiers, he was indicating that he wouldn't resist. His hands were cut off as well and nailed and displayed along with the head on the Rostra in the Forum Romanum according to the tradition of Marius and Sulla, both of whom had displayed the heads of their enemies in the Forum. Cicero was the only victim of the proscriptions to be displayed in that manner. According to Cassius Dio (in a story often mistakenly attributed to Plutarch), Antony's wife Fulvia took Cicero's head, pulled out his tongue, and jabbed it repeatedly with her hairpin in final revenge against Cicero's power of speech.
Posted by: sturgeone | November 17, 2008 7:19 AM
Morning Joe -
What they need is the old Monty Python routine with the slapping fish. John Cleese in a pith helmet slapping everyone with a mackerel.
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 7:20 AM
Sturg-
Thanks. I love me some Roman metaphors.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a3/Maccari-Cicero.jpg/500px-Maccari-Cicero.jpg
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 7:26 AM
You mean Cleese was a mackeral slapper??
Posted by: sturgeone | November 17, 2008 7:27 AM
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/08/photogalleries/rome-reborn/images/primary/9_461.jpg
the roman senate room.....
Posted by: sturgeone | November 17, 2008 7:34 AM
More reasons why America hates those Volvo drivin', Burgenstock wearing, granola eatin', liberals in Vermont -
Burlington, Vt., is healthiest city, CDC says
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/health/1500ap_med_healthiest_city.html
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 7:34 AM
The GOP lost the battle of ideas even more comprehensively than the battle for educated votes, marching into the election with nothing more than slogans.
Energy? Just drill, baby, drill. Global warming? Crack a joke about Ozone Al. Immigration? Send the bums home. Torture and Guantanamo? Wear a T-shirt saying you would rather be waterboarding.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/saturdayspin/387928_gop15.html?source=mypi
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 7:47 AM
Anon,
They sure did lose the election. That said, 57 million people voted for McCain.
So what are you saying about those voters?
Posted by: Bowmanc
| November 17, 2008 8:00 AM
Sturg -
Amazing Wind Powered Vehicle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XIf7TYEuDc
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 8:01 AM
It's Birkenstock! Don't you watch QVC?
Posted by: Corey
| November 17, 2008 8:05 AM
Interesting thread over the weekend. The word "sexist" got used a lot. Wonder why the word "Jerk" didn't?
Posted by: Corey
| November 17, 2008 8:08 AM
Anon, that's because THE Ohio State University is the greatest university EVER. That's why that guy made so much money. I'm kidding, of course.
Posted by: Corey
| November 17, 2008 8:10 AM
Interesting thread over the weekend. The word "sexist" got used a lot. Wonder why the word "Jerk" didn't?
---Corey, who once more has struck the nail squarely upon its head.
Posted by: sturgeone | November 17, 2008 8:14 AM
Just being honest.
Posted by: Corey
| November 17, 2008 8:16 AM
Bowmac-
That op-ed speaks for itself. And I must say I find little wrong with it.
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 8:17 AM
The Republicans missed out on "Yes We Can!". That pretty well covered everything for Obama. LOL!
Posted by: Corey
| November 17, 2008 8:22 AM
So approx, 46% of the voting population are idiots? or the leadership of the republican party?
Posted by: Bowmanc
| November 17, 2008 8:28 AM
Thanks there Corey. Gotta keep the record straight.
You know of coarse that ole' Cicero there was big on honesty too.
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 8:28 AM
cicero was big on that honesty as it suited cicero.....who wasnt as big on "courage" as he might have been......according to most accounts......
Posted by: sturgeone | November 17, 2008 8:31 AM
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/weekend-roundup.html#comment-173995
Solar, We really do think alike.
I wrote a response to what xrepub said about Champ on the last thread (this morning), then came over and started reading this thread and found what you said. I'm going to reprint my response here. It's worded differently than yours, but I also agree with the stuff you wrote about Gordo.
"Apparently, I am not the only one champ hates around here, because he experienced another couple hissyfits today, while I was away raking." xrepublican
Champ doesn't hate you or anyone else xrepub - he's mad about all the injustice in the world. He's a little mad too, because he thinks the rest of us can't see it. And he doesn't like it when some act like a bully with their ideas.
Posted by: chloe
| November 17, 2008 8:32 AM
Cicero's great career had always been marked by an element of timidity and fear. He was not a brave man and he was a worrier.
wikipedia
Posted by: sturgeone | November 17, 2008 8:35 AM
"Interesting thread over the weekend. The word "sexist" got used a lot. Wonder why the word "Jerk" didn't?"
Ha Corey, I'm sure plenty of people were thinking it. :)
Posted by: chloe
| November 17, 2008 8:36 AM
The only Roman I know is Little Caesars.
Posted by: Corey
| November 17, 2008 8:37 AM
"cicero was big on that honesty as it suited cicero.....who wasnt as big on "courage" as he might have been..."
Which do you think is more important Sturge? If either. :)
Posted by: chloe
| November 17, 2008 8:38 AM
Criag -
The first link in your weekend update.
Obama picks reflect respect for the Hill?
Good Spin - So we are seeing which Barack is showing up a step at a time - No judgement here so relax......
But where is all of the Words just Words about bringing Change to Washington?
How about the title - Obama brings same old same old to rule with him - Now if they are the best qualified then so be it.
Also why are so many wanting to run away from the Senate?
Posted by: Ping Pong
| November 17, 2008 8:42 AM
"---Corey, who once more has struck the nail squarely upon its head.
Yes, excellent point, Corey.
Posted by: Patsi
| November 17, 2008 8:43 AM
"Yes We Can!"
Corey, I kept hearing people say Yes we can 'what'?
I know what he meant. Yes we can win this election. And so he did. Now what?
Posted by: chloe
| November 17, 2008 8:44 AM
A special blistersyeahbutchannel
Daily Affirmation for Eric Cantor
Repeat after blistersyeahbutchannel
I will be relevant I will be relevant
(hint to Eric - the affirmation does not work if you hold on to irrelevant issues)
Posted by: blistersyeahbutchannel | November 17, 2008 8:46 AM
Getting ready for bed. I actually had to work last night. Hopefully, the snow will miss us here. Have a good day all...while it lasts! LOL!
Posted by: Corey
| November 17, 2008 8:46 AM
I read a few of Craig's posts. Why do you suppose that the caucus is taking a secret vote to determine Lieberman's punishment? In every article I see the member interviewed professess to be a close friend of Liebermans. It may just be me but a secret vote seems kind of cowardly. If he's really a friend and you think he needs to be punsihed then you shouldn't have to be secret about it.
Posted by: jaxtrader
| November 17, 2008 8:48 AM
They are scared that he might switch his party affiliation to Republican. What has he got to lose? He has already embarrassed the democratic party and himself. I have to give him credit for saying what he actually believes. Rare for a politician.
Posted by: Bowmanc
| November 17, 2008 8:53 AM
"Also why are so many wanting to run away from the Senate?
Ping,
The way they run the senate, they could have one Democrat (representing the entire US), one Republican (doing the same) and 1/1000th of an Independent. Then the votes would come out about the same as they do now. It's got to feel like a losing battle there, when everyone is always just expected to vote on party lines on everything anyway - no deviation permitted. And if they don't conform, they pay a price.....
I envision a Government without parties, where all ideas are welcome and voted on independently.
Got to feed my animals again (and there's a lot of them).
They think they're supposed to eat every day, so what can I do. :)
Posted by: chloe
| November 17, 2008 8:54 AM
Bow,
I'm not saying that I even disagree with voting on action. It's what parties do. Why be so clandestine about it? I shouldn't be surprised but the word "spineless" keep coming to mind.
Posted by: jaxtrader
| November 17, 2008 8:55 AM
Bowmac -
Correct me if I'm wrong, but your argument is that 46% of the voting public were in fact "smart", and their only mistake was following a party led by Idiots ?
The Athenians defined Idiots as follows :
"Idiots" were seen as having bad judgment in public and political matters.
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 8:59 AM
Want to cut the military budget - US out of Europe, let them defend themselves:
Source :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deployments_of_the_United_States_Military#Europe
Not counting Bosnia or Kosovo, the US military has about 90,000 personnel in Europe.
* Germany – 63,958.
* Souda Bay, Greece - 386
* Italy – 11,693
* United Kingdom – 10,967
* Spain – 1,268
* Norway - 23
* Sweden - 23
* Turkey – 1,365
* Belgium – 1,367
* Portugal – 864
* Netherlands – 444
* Greece – 562
* Russia - 18 (mainly in the US embassy in Moscow)
* Thule, Greenland - 138
Posted by: Bowmanc
| November 17, 2008 9:01 AM
Before I go, Sturge I didn't mean to put you on the spot (if I did).
I think honesty is more important than courage (unless it's the courage to be honest), but I was interested in other peoples opinion on it. I know Courage is an important value to a lot of people and thought others might disagree with me on putting it second.
Posted by: chloe
| November 17, 2008 9:01 AM
Bow,
Many of these countries have personnel there for logistical and administrative purposes. They are there
to facilitate actions (should they be needed) in less stable regions of the world. Many other US agencies
also use these facilties worldwide and would still be required to remain.
Posted by: jaxtrader
| November 17, 2008 9:06 AM
I see that pirates captured the brand new Saudi tanker off of Mombasa. It's interesting, Saudi Aramco registered the vessel under the Liberian Flag. I think that we should let the Liberian Navy go rescue them.
I'm sure they'll come running to Nato or the Russians to help them.....
Posted by: jaxtrader
| November 17, 2008 9:12 AM
Somali pirates hijack Saudi oil tanker with Britons on board
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article5172770.ece
__________________
Wait till they high jack a LGN tanker in the Straits of Malacca.
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 9:18 AM
What about the Saudi Navy?
They really have one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Navy
Posted by: Bowmanc
| November 17, 2008 9:19 AM
Annon,
I don't care about the Athenians. They were a bunch of idiots.
I remember a while back that there was actual praise on this blog for a republican, I think it was Chuck Hagel.
Posted by: Bowmanc
| November 17, 2008 9:24 AM
Jack -
Just recently a ship was boarded , and the pirates just practiced steering the ship. Then they left, on ransom, no looting, no killing.
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 9:27 AM
mornin' all.
Solar, you might notice that I got off the Gordo merry-go-round. Repetitive and boring is the best description of his repeated posts on the same subject ime and time and time again . . .
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/as-gm-goes-so-goes-the-nation.html#comment-173420
LOL - Geronimo's real name mighta escaped us, but it couldn't escape Wiki.
Geronimo (Chiricahua: Goyaałé, "one who yawns"; often spelled Goyathlay or Goyahkla[1] in English) (June 16, 1829–February 17, 1909) was a prominent Native American leader of the Chiricahua Apache who fought against Mexico and the United States and their expansion into Apache tribal lands for several decades.
I got a bit of a kick out of the discussion about redundency consultants or corporate downsizers or hired firers or assholes or whatever. Apparently here the correct term would be scapegoat. I have a brother in law who worked for McKenzie (or was it Boston Counsulting? not sure now) back when GM was going through one of its periodic downsizings to keep Toyota from digging its grave too soon. Although the GM management knew very well where the redundencies were and who needed to go - and communicated that to the consltants they hired for cover - the GM folks were too concerned with union relations to appear to make the hard decisions and tell the union and the workers whose jobs were being eliminated that their future plans didn't include them - so they hired outside consulting firms to come in and put the gloss of analysis and legitimacy on what should have been management decisions. It was a gut wrenching job for my brother in law, who quit because of it. We called him Tom.
Oh, and most of those Roman and Greek guys are dead now, aren't they? Pity - I guess we'll jus thave to take the word of the ones who bothered to write it down.
Posted by: pogo
| November 17, 2008 9:29 AM
well.... I read this weekend's thread..... stupid me....
Rosie..... so sorry for the lost of your pet.... animals give us such joy and ask so little in return..... please take care.....
Champ... if you really are gone.... I already miss you....
I agree with those who are puzzled over Craig's complaint of a swear all the while seeming to tolerate posts that are much more offensive to most of us.....
yes..... your idea of allowing free speech can be laudable, Craig..... but you are also giving a forum to bullies..... can't have one without the other, IMO....
Corey..... "jerk" is a good start..... I was thinking more along the lines of a word that begins with "A".... ends with "E".... and has a hole in the middle....
Bethy.... I bought it!..... went to a local bookstore this weekend and bought Umberto Eco's "The Name of the Rose" and "Foucault's Pendulum".... they both look like juicy reading......
Posted by: RebelliousRenee
| November 17, 2008 9:31 AM
here's one article from the prior pirate story a few days ago. seems russia and britain have been working together on this problem for awhile.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081112.wpiracy1112/BNStory/International/home?cid=al_gam_mostview
Posted by: patd | November 17, 2008 9:34 AM
......spots R us......cicero was a really mixed bag....left a lot of writings.....letters and stuff he composed for speaking in that great hall, and to crowds of soldiers etc......
good book about the complexities of cicero is A PILLAR OF IRON by Taylor Caldwell......
The point "courage vs. honesty" would probably be best solved by wishing for a judicious measure and fortuitous mixture of both......
the athenians were not so much idiots as they were schizophrenic according to a prof i had oncet.....
Why does the New Italian Navy have glass bottom boats?
So they can see the OLD Italian Navy.
Posted by: sturgeone | November 17, 2008 9:36 AM
"I don't care about the Athenians. They were a bunch of idiots. "
-------------------------------
Only 46% of them Bow.
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 9:36 AM
oh... and Corey.... so glad to hear you are back at work.....
the first hour of Diane Rehm this morning will be about the fate of the auto industry....... 10:00am-11:00am for those that are interested.....
Posted by: RebelliousRenee
| November 17, 2008 9:36 AM
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/weekend-roundup.html#comment-174009
Anon,
Only when Mrs. Parker was drinking
Posted by: Jamie
| November 17, 2008 9:44 AM
see he's been making the rounds hawking his new book, so will ted turner soon turn up on imus and the daily show? since ted said supportive things re t boone and imus seems to like ole t boone, seems ted would be a natural for imus.... boy could that turn in to a donnybrook given their respectively volatile sensibilities.
Posted by: patd | November 17, 2008 9:45 AM
Patd,
There is a lot of cooperation among the maritime powers. I just have an issue with a rich country like Saudi flagging its vessels in Liberia.
It's the maritime equivalent of a sweatshop.
Then when something goes wrong they will want help from the countries paying to keep the oceans safe.
Why not flag US and employ US crews????
Posted by: jaxtrader
| November 17, 2008 9:45 AM
Rush Limbaugh:
Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears;
I come to bury Chuck Hagel , not to praise him;
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 9:47 AM
Patd _
Boone did the Daily Show last week, Jon and his audience were ready to follow him out of the building.
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 9:51 AM
http://cavett.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/11/14/the-wild-wordsmith-of-wasilla/?em
RFLMAO. What a GREAT column by Cavett. Coupla reads, and it just gets funnier.
Posted by: pogo
| November 17, 2008 9:54 AM
Jamie -
I thought you might spot that one. I was being obtuse about the Sat. thread. Apparently "Dorothy" wasn't the only one drinking.
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 10:00 AM
"I envision a Government without parties, where all ideas are welcome and voted on independently"
Chloe, So did the Founders right up to the instant they tried to elect someone to replace Washington ... Instantaneous party divisions.
Posted by: Jamie
| November 17, 2008 10:00 AM
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/weekend-roundup.html#comment-174020
Anon - and Huntington, WV is the worst - must be a bitch to live in the only place in the US that can't say "Thank god for . . ." I guess that explains why people in that area go to the Town Center Mall in Charleston to cruise and look at the scenery instead of the mall in Barboursville.
Posted by: pogo
| November 17, 2008 10:01 AM
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/weekend-roundup.html#comment-174052
Bowman, That always sounds like a great idea until you ask where those 90,000 people will be employed and by whom.
A large percentage of them come from areas that have no jobs or economic future.
Posted by: Jamie
| November 17, 2008 10:07 AM
She runs the gamut of emotions from A to B.
Dorothy Parker, speaking of Katharine Hepburn
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 10:10 AM
Pogo -
As Haley Barbour left for his governors meeting, the CDC also reported that Vermont had the lowest rate of premature births, and Miss. had the highest rate.
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 10:15 AM
Anon, thank god for MIssissippi. (this is the 2nd state I've lived in that uses that line). LOL
Posted by: pogo
| November 17, 2008 10:20 AM
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/weekend-roundup.html#comment-174073
I'm afraid the art of the literate quip has pretty well disappeared of late.
Posted by: Jamie
| November 17, 2008 10:22 AM
Just a reminder that Tylenol has requested ten songs from everyone that you either can't turn off, automatically sing along with or that makes you start dancing. As I understand the request, they don't have to be favorites or most important, just irrisistable.
Posted by: Jamie
| November 17, 2008 10:26 AM
Hard-core Beatles fans around the world are anxiously hoping for the release of Carnival of Light, a 14-minute long experimental track.
The song was recorded in 1967 just after the vocals for Penny Lane were taped.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/news/2008/11/081117_beatles_lh.shtml
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 10:27 AM
jamie, I really don't know a lot about the military or the purposes for our personnel in the various duty stations, but what is the purpose of having 86K troops in Germany, Italy and the UK if you know? I assume there is some benefit to having a fair sized US presence in Europe to keep the Rooskies from getting any funny ideas, but I'm speculating. I think It might be of more concern to ask what happens to the 150K that are in Iraq if Obama pulls them out consistent with his pledge to do so (which happens to be pretty much exactly what the Iraqi parliament agreed to over the weekend - so much for Bush's insane "no time frame" rantings).
Posted by: pogo
| November 17, 2008 10:30 AM
Anon
McCartney must really be pushing on the others for permission. There was an AP released article yesterday about it that was all over the net.
Posted by: Jamie
| November 17, 2008 10:33 AM
So Craig the Palin book deal is reported to be between 5 & 11 million dollars.
I predict it won't be a 70,000 word volume.
Let's a all start a list of words for Sarah's forth coming book :
You betcha
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 10:34 AM
Jamie,
Move their details stateside.
Couldn't the same be said for the troops if we were to exit Iraq and Afghanistan?
Posted by: Bowmanc
| November 17, 2008 10:34 AM
ty, "I Dig Rock 'n Roll Music" by the Mamas and Papas - I do dig R&R, but I hate that song and can't get it out of my head for about a week every time I happen to hear it. A close second - "Anticipation" by Carly Simon. Great song that I hate and sit around wondering when I'll hear again, and dreading it.
Posted by: pogo
| November 17, 2008 10:35 AM
Anon,
Alaska
Posted by: pogo
| November 17, 2008 10:38 AM
Amon, you figure Palin's book will have pictures?
Posted by: pogo
| November 17, 2008 10:39 AM
you figure Palin's book will have pictures?
You Betcha - Big colored ones of bowls of chili.
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 10:43 AM
Jack, If you're around, you won't be surprised today. They're back onto Palin again.
"The point "courage vs. honesty" would probably be best solved by wishing for a judicious measure and fortuitous mixture of both...."
I think you're right Sturge.......and I think it's interesting what your professor said about the athenians being schizophrenic. I seem to remember you mentioning something another professor of yours said once defining schizophrenia (or maybe I'm mis-remembering.) What ever it was, I remember it being really interesting too. :)
Posted by: chloe
| November 17, 2008 10:48 AM
I'm thinking it might be published, or at least printed by DC Comics.
Posted by: pogo
| November 17, 2008 10:49 AM
Pogo,
It's my understanding that the STOF agreement only limits the amount of time that troops can remain. This is a UN requirement. It does not indicate a time-frame per se. We can be out earlier or later. It's just that another agreement would need to be signed if we stay longer.
Posted by: jaxtrader
| November 17, 2008 10:50 AM
Yes, Jack, and they're back on Bill and Hillary, too - they're in all the papers, and this is a political blog. Go figure. :-)
Posted by: pogo
| November 17, 2008 10:52 AM
Chloe,
I think the Athenian experience is why most democratic societies have opted for a republic structure as opposed to a democratic structure.
Posted by: jaxtrader
| November 17, 2008 10:52 AM
After Obama's win, white backlash festers in US
The election of a black president triggered at least 200 hate-related incidents, a watchdog group finds.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/1117/p03s01-uspo.html
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 10:53 AM
Somehow pogo, that didn't sound like you were discussing politics when you were demeaning Palin (comic books, etc.).
I guess I missed something. It sounded more like sarcasm to me, and about the fact that you don't consider her worthy and that you constantly make it clear that she's not intelligent enough to suit you. I think it's all pretty much been said by now.
Posted by: chloe
| November 17, 2008 10:58 AM
jax, my understanding may be a little limited since I just heard it on CNN while driving the highways and byways, but what I thought I heard was that the Iraqi cabinet favorably voted on an agreement that would have all our combat troops out of Iraq by 2011. That might change-that sort of stuff does, but that sounds like a timeline to me, as does this coverage of it from the Times.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/17/world/middleeast/17iraq.html
"The proposed agreement, which took nearly a year to negotiate with the United States, not only sets a date for American troop withdrawal, but puts new restrictions on American combat operations in Iraq starting Jan. 1 and requires an American military pullback from urban areas by June 30. Those hard dates reflect a significant concession by the departing Bush administration, which had been publicly averse to timetables."
Posted by: pogo
| November 17, 2008 11:00 AM
Bowman and Pogo
All of those men and women could be brought back stateside, but what do you do with them then? There is a huge amount of infrastructure that needs to be rebuilt, but the military already keeps groups such as the Seabees unemployed and restricted to base so as not to conflict with local business.
The trouble with these world wide down turns is that they tend to reveal just how much "work" is just padding and totally unnecessary which of course makes the people doing the "work" unnecessary.
There usually has to be some huge infusion of cash and/or creativity to turn things around and that can take a decade or more.
Posted by: Jamie
| November 17, 2008 11:03 AM
Pogo,
Effectively, I doubt that it is any more of a timeline than this upcoming one. Does anyone really believe that we would have been out by Jan 1st. if this agreement isn't signed?
I think the key thing here is that the enemy (whoever they are) can't count on a definitive period from which to base their operations on. As I understand it that is the only real reason not to have a public time-frame to begin with.
Posted by: jaxtrader
| November 17, 2008 11:05 AM
Pogo
The main reason for the foreign deployment is to have units available for anything that might transpire. They are also a way of supporting the economies of our friends in order to keep them friendly. Those men and women spend a lot of money. As mentioned above, the bases are used for other government agencies in addition to the embassies.
It is all just moving the coin of the realm around in circles.
Posted by: Jamie
| November 17, 2008 11:07 AM
Gee....and you promised to skip my posts....what a disappointment.
Posted by: chloe
| November 17, 2008 11:09 AM
chloe, sarcasm, from me? About Palin? Surely not. But you're right, she ISN'T smart enough for me - well, for national politics IMNSHO - and she IS in the papers and she IS trying to mount an assault on a political future on the national stage (to say notihing of cashing in on her newfound celebrity), so yes I'm discussing politics and I don't feel too bad about linking a Cavett article on her that I just read this morning and made me laugh out loud or commenting on anything else about her that happens to come up - even if I'm the one who brings it up. And for the record, I didn't bring up the book deal, but I do love to ridicule Ms.Sarah at every opportunity.
Posted by: pogo
| November 17, 2008 11:09 AM
Chloe -
Here's something on a higher plane, a clip of a whale shark taking a dump on the BBC.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7727136.stm
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 11:09 AM
Sturg-----wonderful information,,,it fills in nicely with what i have,,you provide details (names and dates) in away that is hard to refute ----that is what im trying to do----please keep filling in---i will start filing a few more names and dates---thanks
Pogo--i did not mean that gordo was in any way was making headway with you,,,just that you and him for a few weeks were going around, and around,,yet u still managed to have your usual conversations--
Chloe----yes we do----
Patd-----i was a little late this am cos i had a mean desperado on my tail last night, and had to keep one eye open, and got there by my clock(sun dial) about 15 minn late---what was your hurry,,,and now u bring in marshal Dillon (jack) well i have to even up the sides now---gonna go get whispering pete---she is the fastes cowgirl with pistolas that ever wore pants (Patsi) oh u gonna get it now
why she is so mean that she chase of a feller out from ten, and made him crawl all the way to New York city---where he never leaves his casa----just pitafull just him and 27 dogs and one cat to feed them all,,i will let u know when i come a rollin back in town, and then-------
Posted by: SolarCrete
| November 17, 2008 11:15 AM
You know, I didn't ask for all of this, but got myself caught up in it as I sometimes unwisely do. Over the weekend, Jack made a couple of jokes about the amount of time on the blog spent discussing Palin. I was simply joking with him when I made that comment. I certainly wasn't intending it to defend her in anyway. I might find some of it distasteful, but so what, go for it. I really don't care, and I shouldn't have said anything. Whatever floats you boat is fine with me - ALWAYS.
Posted by: chloe
| November 17, 2008 11:17 AM
Pogo,
I guess that's my biggest issue with alot of people on these blogs. Regardless of party affiliations. They love to ridicule.....it's not enough to point out policy shortcomings, or character issues. It's the pure love of ridicule....I think it's why there is so little respect for any public official and why many good potential candidates won't enter politics.....I think that the anonymity afforded by these blogs emboldens some to behave in way that they never would if speaking in person. It's a shame but it does speak volumes about many.
Posted by: jaxtrader
| November 17, 2008 11:17 AM
"and learn how not to say some of the amazingly stupid things she said during the campaign. "
I know! Can you BELIEVE she said she'd been in all 57 states!!?? Whatta loon.
Posted by: Patsi
| November 17, 2008 11:21 AM
Chloe----correct picking --honesty over courage ---i think that when one has honesty, courage builds up in them cos it builds character, which is what is needed to be brave???
Posted by: SolarCrete
| November 17, 2008 11:22 AM
Jamie, I figured as much - my initial point was that there are many more forces in Iraq that will have to be dealt with as we draw down than there are in foreign deployments for other purposes, and who probably won't be redeployed at any rate, and I hope that something is being done to plan for their return. I'm guessing that some will go to Afghanistan, but there could be about 100K that won't.
Jax, I hear ya, but at least the Times sees this one as different. I don't know whether you or the Times is right or wrong, but ask me again in a couple of years.
Posted by: pogo
| November 17, 2008 11:23 AM
"Sarah Palin is not a goddess figure who should be held above any scrutiny or criticism; she's a politician. If she, and her ardent supporters, cannot handle that, they should all find a new focus outside the political realm, "
Oh come on, Tom. I don't think she has "ardent supporters" here. Just some who question the motives behind the constant -- and tedious -- ridicule.
Posted by: Patsi
| November 17, 2008 11:24 AM
Oh is GORDO still around? I thought he finally decided to give it a rest. Silly me!
Posted by: EuroTom
| November 17, 2008 11:24 AM
Pogo,
I think it is different because things are truly winding down. I wouldn't be surprised if we drew down sooner rather than later. But i'll bet we keep some troops there longer than 3 years.
Posted by: jaxtrader
| November 17, 2008 11:25 AM
"---correct picking --honesty over courage ---i think that when one has honesty, courage builds up in them cos it builds character, which is what is needed to be brave???"
Solar, I'm beginning to wonder what I (and this blog) would do without you. Thanks.
Posted by: chloe
| November 17, 2008 11:26 AM
Patsi, it seems like she does, but I'll cede the point. :-) I am curious (and I ask this because I respect your opinion) what do you think are the motives behind Palin criticism? Do you think it's worse than criticism directed at other politicians? Do you think it is only centered here or in the larger politicial spectrum?
Posted by: EuroTom
| November 17, 2008 11:28 AM
"Can you BELIEVE she said she'd been in all 57 states!!?? Whatta loon."
ROFLOL
Posted by: chloe
| November 17, 2008 11:28 AM
Jack -
Does this mean you'll be giving up ridicule ?
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 11:31 AM
which came first, the honesty or the courage?
Posted by: EuroTom
| November 17, 2008 11:32 AM
ok..... reporting on what was said on the Diane Rehm show ....... the consensus is that the government will give the auto industry some kind of help or "bailout" if you prefer that term...... there will be a discussion on giving them $25 billion in Congress later today..... I have no opinion either way..... I am not an economist and I don't want to play one on a blog....... and no.... I did not stay at a Holiday Express last night......
Jax..... your 11:17 is spot on!....
the ridicule and the endless..... and tedious..... repetition isn't worth my time....
I'm reading less and less of this blog..... but now have more time to devote to reading books...... so I guess in a ways.... I need to say..... thanks!... :0
Posted by: RebelliousRenee
| November 17, 2008 11:34 AM
Pogo
One of the purposes of the GI Bill following WW II was to keep men out of the work force while sending the women home. That extended educational period allowed for the draw down of the military production and the transition to civilian industries and manufacturing plus creating a pool of educated citizens that could be drawn on as needed for the mechanics of rebuilding Europe.
Then we sort of had to do it in reverse in the 60s and send all the women back to work to keep the average wage down once we were in back in competition with the world.
Now that is falling apart again with outsourcing of businesses to the lowest common denominator on wages and the elimination of manufacturing. While the world irons out those levels only the Chinese have money ... could get interesting.
Posted by: Jamie
| November 17, 2008 11:35 AM
jax, I said worse about Palin last weekend among Mrs. P's family, some of whom are dems, some repubs. I personally don't need anonymity to criticize Palin, or any other politician for that matter. Ridicule is part of the political discourse and criticism - and what are we doing here if we're not criticizing politicians at least in part? - and it has been pretty much forever from what I can tell - and will be pretty much forever if history is a teacher. I don't fault it - unless of course you're criticising the politicians I like. Then I get indignant.
Patsi, Palin certainly doesn't hold the only patent (or would that be copyright?) on stupid statements, does she? LOL
chloe, not to worry, I don't expect everyone to like anything I say or anyone to like everything. If you don't like it, comment on it, ignore, criticize it - it's all OK with me. Ignoring it is the only response that won't cause me to think about what I've said.
Posted by: pogo
| November 17, 2008 11:35 AM
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/weekend-roundup.html#comment-174052
The USA has military in Europe because they have determined it in their national interest to be stationed throughout the continent. I don't think tit is necessary for American soldiers to be stationed in Europe at all, but hey, I could be wrong...
Posted by: EuroTom
| November 17, 2008 11:37 AM
Hmmmm is it time for an electronic Trailmix BlOG HUG???
Posted by: EuroTom
| November 17, 2008 11:38 AM
Anon,
I agree/disagree on policies and actions. However I specifically respect the government office particularly the presidency.
I didn't vote for BO and I'll probably disagree with his policies but he's my president now and I'll personally confront anyone who disrepects the office that he holds.
You learn in the military to respect ones position and to follow orders regardless of your personal opinion. It's necessary in the military.
At the very least you'd think as citizens we could at least respect one's office.
Posted by: jaxtrader
| November 17, 2008 11:41 AM
Chloe
I am relieved. I was getting worried it had been three whole days with no Palin bashing.
Pogo
go for it,
There are day when being a bleacher bum is fun.
LOL
Buuuuuuuuuut.
It is one thing to go to Wriggly and yell obsenities at the outfielder. It is another to understand why that outfielder is standing in front of you.
I love to see the way the game is being played I'm not much of a bleacher bum most days
But as I said some days when the beer is plentiful and the sun is warm there is no better place in the world than a right field bleacher seat at Wriggly. ;-0
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack
| November 17, 2008 11:41 AM
"... the consensus is that the government will give the auto industry some kind of help or "bailout" if you prefer that term...... there will be a discussion on giving them $25 billion in Congress later today..."
Renee, I think that sounds good (even though I shouldn't have an opinion either, as I know nothing about it). But if they make this an incentive to move them in the right direction of developing vehicles with alternate forms of fuel or at least better mileage, etc., it could mean a lot more.
Posted by: chloe
| November 17, 2008 11:43 AM
jamie, I know that there have been changes in the GI bill even since the VN era, but I don't really know the details. My limited understanding is that the educational benefits aren't as robust as they were before. Regardless, education through the GI Bill certainly would be part of the post-Iraq planning. Good thing, too, the job market's gonna suck unless something dramatic happens in the economy.
Posted by: pogo
| November 17, 2008 11:46 AM
"Ignoring it is the only response that won't cause me to think about what I've said."
I have to go, but can't leave without responding to how sweet you are pogo. Thanks... :)
Posted by: chloe
| November 17, 2008 11:47 AM
Pogo,
My oldest is in college now and he says that his classes are full of Iraq/Afghanistan vets and that many are Nat'l guard/reservists. He knows one well and he is doing 2 years of school and going back for one year in Iraq next year. then he'll come back and do 2 more to finish school.
Posted by: jaxtrader
| November 17, 2008 11:49 AM
I don't think there's much doubt that the gov't is going to do something aobut the auto industry' swoes, (unless the Shelby's of the world mont a filibuster and get 40 senators to support it) the queston will be whther the money comes from the $700B set aside already or the $?? already there to help Detroit develop cleaner cars. The way Paulson's been dancing, I wouldn't be too surprised to see Congress amend the$700B bailout legislation to include Detroit as a target for the funds. Or not.
Posted by: pogo
| November 17, 2008 11:52 AM
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/weekend-roundup.html#comment-174144
He just plays one on TV.
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack
| November 17, 2008 11:53 AM
ET----i think that courage came first,,,it was needed to evolve,,,honesty( and the brain)had to be developed as group protection from predators and rivals was needed in order to survive---morals are innate in all animals,,and therefor honesty , that has to be developed---the wolf pack is a good example no?????
Posted by: SolarCrete
| November 17, 2008 11:54 AM
Look, chloe, sweet is one of the nicest things anyone's called me today. I hope you know it's never personal for me.
jax, I'm glad to hear that - an education is the least we can offer kids who choose to serve instead of whatever else they might do with their lives.
Posted by: pogo
| November 17, 2008 11:55 AM
pogo,
I agree, I personally benefitted from it. It's not for everyone but you have be thankful that we live in a country that can offer this opportunity. Some make it a career but most use it as a stepping to better things.
Posted by: jaxtrader
| November 17, 2008 11:58 AM
Speaking of not idiots, I'm always amused how one can throw out odd ball references, as my Roman one last night, and how many people will pick it up and play with it.
I'm begining to suspect that the quality of not idiocy around here is very high.
Change that. No begining or suspect about it , it is very evident.
Jack
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack
| November 17, 2008 12:00 PM
A glorious thread to you all, this morning !
Sturgeone,
Octavian and his successor for a couple centuries were called Princeps. This title denominated them as the First Citizen, with the right to put in the first word on any topic in the Senate, thus setting the agenda, and letting folks know what to think. The title Emperor wasn't used until much later.
Athens 'democracy' was actually an imperialist demogoguery. They enslaved their allies in the Delian League, stole the League treasury and squandered it on the Parthenon They slew every man, woman, child, puppy, and chicken in Mytilene for seceding. They sent their army off to a fight an elective war in a faraway place and only one man came back alive to tell of the disaster.
Sparta was a parasitic, fascist, war machine, fed and clothed by the labor of the conquered Helots, enslaved on State owned plantations.
It is hard to decide which society was more repulsive.
How our founding fathers ever found the political gold among all this dross to invent the successful American polity, is a mystery to me. The story that Franklin, particularly, urged the model of the Iroqouis seems as reasonable as the theory that we modeled on Athens and Rome.
Posted by: xrepublican
| November 17, 2008 12:05 PM
jax yeah, my other bro in law just got out last year after putting in 20 in the army, durig which time he got a dgree he would not have other wise gotten and stayed out of jail, which it is likely he would not have been able to do had he not gone into the service. It didn't turn him into anyone I'd want to live next door to - he still has his major demons as a human being, which IMHO haven't been lessened at all, and have perhaps even been exacerbated - but he's probably a whole lot better off educationally and occupationally now than he would have been in all likellihood.
Posted by: pogo
| November 17, 2008 12:06 PM
A bailout of the big three automakers will not succeed without addressing the labor cost issues. They will still not be able to compete with the other automobile manufacturing plants operated in the US that have lower labor and benefit costs.
Posted by: Bowmanc
| November 17, 2008 12:06 PM
Well, it may be snowing, but I still want lunch - later.
Posted by: pogo
| November 17, 2008 12:08 PM
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/weekend-roundup.html#comment-174153
Books could be written on that, Bowman.
Posted by: pogo
| November 17, 2008 12:09 PM
Xrep,
Athens did show that being democratic doesn't ensure that you are a good neighbor.....and the Roman Republic despite being democratic was no peach either.....
Posted by: jaxtrader
| November 17, 2008 12:10 PM
Jax
I love the choice the Roman republic offered its neighbors. Resist and we will conquor you and enslave everybody or become an ally and provide the soldiers for us to expand our empire.
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack
| November 17, 2008 12:17 PM
Bowmanc
Gas is $1.53 at the Quiktrip on the corner of Truman and Sterling in Independence MO.
Half of the auto makers problems are solving themselves.
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack
| November 17, 2008 12:20 PM
Let's see, a political candidate who knowingly whips-up the darkest forces in the human heart, and uses human ignorance as a political club, I'm not supposed to ridicule ?
I'm supposed to be "fair" ?
A political candidate who's prescription to our complex energy problem is :
"Drill baby drill" and "Mine baby mine".
I'm supposed to treat as a serious and thoughtful person ?
A political party that forbids the mention of condoms as part dealing with a world wide plague ?
I'm supposed to respect ?
A political party that treats some faith based movement as having the same scientific value as the entire fields of biology, geology, astronomy, and physics ?
I'm supposed to be understanding ?
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 12:21 PM
Jack,
A lot of parallels are drawn between the US and Rome but I think that example shows a big difference. In the end their miltary was largely made up of conscript non-citizens. It is given as a signifcant reason for Rome's downfall. The citizenry had no real stake in the empires defense.
That's not true in our case. The miltary is still made up of a volunteer force drawn from every constituency group. It is still truly a citizen army.
Posted by: jaxtrader
| November 17, 2008 12:26 PM
" Do you think it's worse than criticism directed at other politicians? Do you think it is only centered here or in the larger politicial spectrum? "
Against my better judgement, I am answering Tom's question....others scroll on....
I absolutely do think that the criticisms took on a more personal nature than with most.
First, she's no dumber than a helluva lot of other Republicans, and some Democrats as well. She did not take any more anti-gay stand than half of the Republicans and again, some Democrats. She did not govern Alaska as a fundie crack pot.
Boiled down, her "see Russia from here" comment is no different than many similar comments made by states talking about illegal immigration from Mexico. They are talking about proximity. BFD.
In the beginning the slurs were absolutely sexist, regarding her family, her supposed hottie status (progressive bloggers referring to her as a MILF)....but in the end, the ridicule turned to class.
She couldn't afford an Ivy League school, and ended up attending several colleges. She entered a beauty contest to pay a tuition bill, and so has been ridiculed as "the beauty queen." . I have a niece who did the same. The college issue became increasingly class conscious, even to the point of some bloggers sneering at community colleges as being for people too dumb for 'real college.' I have another niece, a PhD, who started out at a community college to save money before heading on to a four year school. Again, BFD.
The clothing issue: too much money? Sure. But as I said then, I know country music stars who drop 30 to 50 grand at a shot and never see the bills. The larger issue is that these days, middle class people cannot run for office. If she'd married "up" like John Kerry, John McCain and others, she would have had appropriate clothing to "represent" the GOP.
Slurs against her state for not being "cool." Slurs against her husband the "fisherman."
Criticism (much of which I agree with) about the culture of those western states where wild life is looked upon differently. But it is the culture she represents.
Her religion. She is a fundamentalist who was put on the ticket to energize the base, which she did. And her campaign did what most VP campaigns are supposed to do -- attack the opposition and allow the presidential candidate to take a somewhat high road.
Drill-baby-drill -- while a stupid cheerleading chant -- is what a lot of Americans now seem to believe. Including some Democrats.
Bottom line: the thing that irritates me the most is that many of the catcalls are repeats of things that were said and never substantiated, in fact, denied by those involved. But the meme remains.
I think she's far less "dangerous" than Bill Frist, Sam Brownbeck, Mike Huckabee, Newt Gingrich, Bill Kristol, Grover Norquist and a boat load of others.
And trying to turn her into trailer trash is --uh, trashy -- to me.
Posted by: Patsi
| November 17, 2008 12:26 PM
Anon
If you were accurate, you might have a point. But you are engaging in hyperbole.
Your points don't accurately describe anybody.
And yep, I don't like it when Rushbo does the same stuff.
I would think a person would want a better role model.
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack
| November 17, 2008 12:26 PM
Jack
Genghis Khan,,,,,,the Mongol warrior--also adopted the roman philosophy ofResist and we will conquor you and enslave everybody or become an ally and provide the soldiers for us to expand our empire.
Posted by: SolarCrete
| November 17, 2008 12:29 PM
Patsi is right. I think it is a mistake to underestimate the intelligence of Sarh Palin. I have been watching her for several years, and she is shrewd about most things. She came from a small, backward, rural, welfare state, that is ownedand run by Texas oil pashas. Thus, she brought few dollars and fewer votes to the ticket. Palin's mistakes as a running mate were due to her strict adherence to the republican marketing plan and spingineers. Palin didn't enjoy the benefit of 30 years soaking up foreign policy. Nonetheless, she made fewer FP gaffes than mccain. If there was and idiot in this race it was the prisoner, himself. Palin ran hard and was a good soldier.
She might have the diseases that are killing off Alaska's republican pols: avarice and hubris. We've seen a few symptoms, if we are to believe the muckcainites.
Btw, Honesty is premier. If you have that, you rarely need Courage.
Posted by: xrepublican
| November 17, 2008 12:31 PM
Xrepub -
Move to the head of the class .
> Renaissance painting techniques, and Franklin's views on the Iroqouis Confederacy .
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 12:32 PM
Pogo
The GI bill has been severely curtailed which is why there has been so much talk about redoing it, but McCain voted against the Democratic version and I believe Bush may have vetoed (would have to check).
Now that we have a Democratic congress, I would hope we would take care of these men and women once they return.
Posted by: Jamie
| November 17, 2008 12:39 PM
How are we expected to respond to the inclusion in the latest edition of the Collins Dictionary of the word "meh"? With an indifferent shrug of the shoulders, would seem to be the obvious way. We might say: "meh." It’s a wearisome stunt.
Every new edition of every dictionary under the sun comes with a press release announcing that some new word has been added that – gasp! – comes from the Simpsons, or text-messaging, or some drivetime DJ’s catchphrase.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/11/17/do1711.xml
I say meh.
Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker
| November 17, 2008 12:46 PM
Jax
In a lot of ways the Roman Republic looked like a cross between Haiti and the USSR. With the worst of both dominating.
I think we all were corupted by college TA's who idolized everything Greek and Roman and we never understood the dark underbelly of their politics. I kinda got lost last night going through wiki reading about some of the characters of the Roman republic.
They did things that would have made Richard Daly Sr blush.
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack
| November 17, 2008 12:50 PM
patsi, your 12:26 is right on. she may be an idiot but no more than most of them or us.
et, your "find a new focus outside the political realm" might be just what she's got in mind. remember her career bent was media centered. like huckabee, she may find more gold mining the cable fields.
chloe, to be honest, it takes courage to be honest sometimes.
Posted by: patd | November 17, 2008 12:52 PM
The Tylenol request drove me crazy. Every single slot has been deleted and replaced with something else repeatedly, and I still wasn't able to keep it down to ten plus cheating with the Beatles.
Even by religiously holding to songs that when first heard MUST be listened to until they are done even if you look like an idiot sitting in the driveway singing along, I reserve my right to continue changing my mind every 30 seconds.
Lost In The Fifties Tonight - Ronnie Milsap
Seasons of Love (Rent)
There Goes My Baby - The Drifters
The Beatles Anything
Hello Again - Neil Diamond
Pancho & Lefty - Willie Nelson
Whiter Shade of Pale - Procol Harem
When October Goes - Barry Manilow
Erroll Flynn - Amanda McBroom -
Mister Bojangles - Sammy Davis, Jr.
Posted by: Jamie
| November 17, 2008 12:54 PM
KGC
So many words so little time.
I think I will spend my time creating and expanding my own.
Ex. the other day I told the kid working with me to hand me the lawyer, and I point to a big hammer. He ask "why did you call it a lawyer?" Because I said, "Like a lawyer it is something you can use in dispute resolution"
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack
| November 17, 2008 12:59 PM
solar, i'll see your patsi and raise you my posse
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm3kqis8YGs
btw, i ain't no stinkin' man.....
(no offense intended)
Posted by: patd | November 17, 2008 1:01 PM
patd
I'm glad you bathe.
;-P
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack
| November 17, 2008 1:02 PM
whskyjack -
Your points don't accurately describe anybody.
Drill Baby, Drill! -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhvRQyRdVEI
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 1:03 PM
jaxtrader,
Rome collapsed from a plethora of weaknesses: Latium was no longer the Empire's chief potter, all the provinces made pots. Also wine, cheese, oil, and iron. The Empire, as a tool for trade, became unimportant. Provinces then thought they could go it alone. We could say that Rome fell because it became irrelevent.
Rome was over-extended : To defend the northern borders they let in a few barbarian tribes (cheap militatry labor) to serve as buffers and became dependent on them. Meanwhile, legions were progressively shifted toward the Eastern Front. These barbarians were mercenaries, and had no allegience to the Roman State. The value brought in by the vast northern provinces was far less than the expense of keeping them in the Empire.
Barbarian raids, rebellions, and marauders led citizens to trade their citizenship rights for the protection of strongmen. Thus fewer and fewer people had a stake in the State. Strongmen began to flout government authority with impugnity, and eventually became the government.
Add lead cups and water pipes, climate change, the red plague, local pride (provincialism), the enormous public cost of Bread and Circuses, and the movement of the center of power to Ravenna and then Constantinople. After awhile, all these erosive and corrosive elements became stronger than the elements holding things together. The Empire was dead long before it finally keeled over.
Posted by: xrepublican
| November 17, 2008 1:05 PM
Tylenol -
Radar Love
This could be the worst rock song ever, and it sticks like old gum in the brain.
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 1:09 PM
It would be cheaper in the long run to give the employees (from middle mangement on down) that $25 B!LL!ON and let the gashog companies die a sudden death.
Posted by: xrepublican
| November 17, 2008 1:10 PM
Just your post Anon.
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack
| November 17, 2008 1:11 PM
Jack,
Thanks. A lawyer is cheaper in the long run. Mind if I use your funny ? I promise to reference you.
Posted by: xrepublican
| November 17, 2008 1:14 PM
whskyjack-
"Half of the auto makers problems are solving themselves."
Thanks for the deep thoughts.
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 1:16 PM
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/weekend-roundup.html#comment-174153
Rather than addressing the quality of cars that are being built in the USA... the Republicans keep complaining that the problem is "labor costs". The same Repugs never seem to complain about the out of bounds wages and benefits that the corporate masters guzzle inward.
Posted by: EuroTom
| November 17, 2008 1:19 PM
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/weekend-roundup.html#comment-174162
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/weekend-roundup.html#comment-174170
Much impressive points raised and food for thought to further consider. I appreciate the open dialogue!
Posted by: EuroTom
| November 17, 2008 1:25 PM
Patd----sorry maam---as i tip my sombrero with my left hand cos--i think its just a trick--keeping my right hand on my hip next to my six shooter---speaking of shooting--i guess i just did shoot my mouth off ----i wasn't sure if you belonged to the stinkin man side---or the take a both every 2 hours of the side,,,but u know that u gals pick up on the smelly odor of man,,,being a construction man myself,,,,i do stink,,,,and will continue to do so until my wife baths me:-) and cleans me up in order to dirty my up again,,,and then baths me again----it never ends----oops i hear the shower going---later
Posted by: SolarCrete
| November 17, 2008 1:25 PM
We might as well let GM die. It hasn't made a "good" car since they got rid of Tail Fins.
http://www.monsterchef.net/Back2Fifty02/58CaddyRed01.jpg
Posted by: Bowmanc
| November 17, 2008 1:28 PM
"to be honest, it takes courage to be honest sometimes"
Always Patd. It can be downright terrifying sometimes. :)
Posted by: chloe
| November 17, 2008 1:32 PM
Bowman....
one thing I learned from this morning's DR Show was to have a bit of sympathy for our domestic auto industry.....
the #1 rule of manufacturers is that you have to make what the public wants to buy..... and they were doing just that..... it was pointed out that during the 90s SUVs and trucks easily outsold sedans 3-1....
they made a good profit on those vehicles and couldn't compete with the profit margins the Japanese were making on smaller cars because of the costs of labor..... healthcare, pensions, wages, ect.
Toyota makes cars in this country by cutting deals with local governments not to have to pay all those labor costs in exchange for bringing jobs into the area....
it's really not fair that Ford or GM are told they have to honor their legacy costs while Toyota and Nissan were allowed to start something totally new here, IMO.... that's not a level playing field.....
Posted by: RebelliousRenee
| November 17, 2008 1:32 PM
Especially when you see that fist coming at you....
Posted by: chloe
| November 17, 2008 1:33 PM
and Patsi....
I rarely scroll by your posts..... your 12:26 on Palin was worth the read....
as was Xrep's 12:31.....
Posted by: RebelliousRenee
| November 17, 2008 1:36 PM
SolarCrete,
Good point. The hordes of Central Asia found that a reputation for slaying all resisters opened many doors the first time they knocked. Their advance men made propaganda about the horrible things that happen to resisters. In fact, before the 1400s & big guns, seiges were extremely expensive, and often failed. It was cheaper to frighten people into surrendering. As blood-stained empire builders go, I'm a fan of Genghis Khan. He was much less brutal than Alexander, the Romans, the Crusaders, or the Conquistadores, all of whom practiced genocide.
Posted by: xrepublican
| November 17, 2008 1:36 PM
Henry VIII's flagship Mary Rose was sunk by a French cannonball and this was covered up by political spin, according to a new academic study.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/hampshire/7733296.stm
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 1:43 PM
Regretfully I don't think that anyone has the political will to allow the auto makers to fail. I personally don't see why we don't let them at least file for bankruptcy and then look at a bailout.
Pogo - you probably have some knowledge of bankruptcy proceedings...what wrong with allowing them to go into chapter 11 and restructure
Posted by: jaxtrader
| November 17, 2008 1:44 PM
1----piece of my heart---Janis Joplin
2---all of me---patsi cline
4----Carlos santana---guitar solos
3---under the board walk---everly bros?
5---Hey Jude----the beatles
6---lucy in the sky---beatles
7---solo tu----spanish song
8--whiter shade of pale--???
9--pretty woman---Roy O.
10---smooth jazz---all
Posted by: SolarCrete
| November 17, 2008 1:45 PM
solar, while i admire your choice of patsi who you describe as "the fastes cowgirl with pistolas that ever wore pants" she may be quick on the draw with powerful killer words, but she's no match for my friends and mentors belle s and annie o.
here's a little taste of what you're up against:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JY7Hh5PzELo&feature=related
Posted by: patd | November 17, 2008 1:51 PM
"Now that we have a Democratic congress, I would hope we would take care of these men and women once they return."
Right on, Jamie. Vet treatment (and lack thereof) has become a national disgrace.
Posted by: Patsi
| November 17, 2008 1:52 PM
Renee,
The foreign car companies did come into low wage areas and bring jobs but don't forget. The union allowed them to came in at the new hire rates. They knew what this would do to GM and Ford and were complicit in not equalizing the legacy costs.
It seems crazy but they essentially provided the labor to undermine their own pension and healthcare system. I'm still trying to figure out the rationale.
Posted by: jaxtrader
| November 17, 2008 1:54 PM
Thanks RebelliousRenee,
I thought the auto companies spent those TENS of B!LL!ONS of $$ in advertising in order to talk us into buying what we don't need and can't afford.
We gave these companies bailouts before, and they used the money to pay lobbyists and give bonuses to the execs. Before we give 'em any more money, make them produce vehicles that get 50 mpg, make them cut their marketing budgets by 50 %, and their lobbying budgets by 80%, and roll the execs pay back to less than $1/2 million/year (they earned it). Otherwise, just give the $25 B!LL!ON to the employees, and auction the assets to pay the debts.
Posted by: xrepublican
| November 17, 2008 1:57 PM
Patsi,
I've toured the hospital here in Houston and most everyone I've talked to here says the care is good.
I could take advantage of the services but I still prefer private care.
Posted by: jaxtrader
| November 17, 2008 1:57 PM
RR -
Don't forget that American auto advertising has always promised you will have more fun and a bigger weeny if you buy a bigger car.
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 1:58 PM
XR---genghis khan ----was admirable in many ways---my favorite way is that he did gave his follower a sense of belonging to something---he was a very humble man,,and while he was ambitious, he wasn't a tyrant ,,,it's been a long time that i studied him, and will stop here but that is what i remember most for right now----
Posted by: SolarCrete
| November 17, 2008 2:05 PM
South Korea sold over 730,000 cars in the U.S., while the U.S. sold only 3,811 cars in South Korea in 2005. South Korea uses a variety of tariff, tax and non-tariff barriers to insulate its domestic manufacturers from foreign competition, while exporting more than 70% of the 3.5 million cars and trucks it builds each year around the world.
http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/mi12_levin/pr070716.shtml
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 2:08 PM
As to the big 3, there's some truth in all of that. Another problem the big 3 have is inability (or unwillingness) to retool and respond to market trends until Toyota, etc. have already anticipated and staked out market share. I drove past the GM Lordstown assembly plant mid day Saturday - not counting the 6 tractor-trailers in the parking lot, there were 7 cars there. 7. There's a big sign there talking about the Chevy Cruze being on its way - apparently not on the weekend.
Posted by: pogo
| November 17, 2008 2:09 PM
SolarCrete,
Watch out, ! patd has ghosts on her side !
Now aren't you sorry that you swore off taking supernatural aid ?
Posted by: xrepublican
| November 17, 2008 2:11 PM
Jax -- I don't think the vets are getting mental health counseling or with reestablishing their lives.
Posted by: Patsi
| November 17, 2008 2:16 PM
Anon,
Pretty smart of those Koreans to get rid of as many smog and traffic jam creating beasts as possible. Pollution and gridlock are bad enough over there, without a mess of f150s and hummbugs making things much worse..
Posted by: xrepublican
| November 17, 2008 2:18 PM
If these songs are on the radio, I refuse to leave the car until the last note (others as well, but these come to mind...)
You Really Got Me Now, Kinks
Sunday Morning Coming Down, Johnny Cash
Pancho & Lefty, Willie & Merle
14 Karat Mind, Gene Watson
Everything That Glitters Is Not Gold, Dan Seals
We Will Rock You, Queen
Seven Year Ache, Roseanne Cash
Jolene, Dolly Parton
Old Time Rock & Roll, Bob Seger
Up On Cripple Creek, The Band
Posted by: Patsi
| November 17, 2008 2:22 PM
Patsi,
The mental health and the head injury problems are both enormous. republicans shrunk the VA while inventing the Iraq fiasco. The pain and suffering this causes people is atrocious.
Posted by: xrepublican
| November 17, 2008 2:22 PM
I don't think Palin is lacking in intelligence. The media, who are now beginning to admit how biased they were, made her look bad. They can make or break anyone at any time. I imagine she knows as much or more about energy issues than anyone. That is the number one reason why I support her. She wants to drill. And I think she's right about that. She never said that was the lone solution, but I believe Alaska has holds the answer to our energy problems, not only in oil but in natural gas.
MSNBC and CNN could have ruined Obama in a couple days had they wanted to. He gave them more than enough. He didn't always sound like a genius. But for some reason, it was the game of the season to destroy Sarah Palin right out of the box -- even with Carl Cameron's "anonymous source" and him twittering about nothing but gossip after the whole thing was over. I haven't heard anybody admit it except MSNBC, but I imagine the anonymous source, the McCain adviser, was none other than the non-person Martin Isenstadt.
Posted by: lizbeth
| November 17, 2008 2:24 PM
jax, bankruptcy has changed some over the past few years - from GM's (example only) perspective, it depends on what obligations the court would approve restructuring of. Big bankruptcies often work out well, but not always. Legally, bankruptcy might seem like a good idea for the big 3 - it does keep the wolves from the door at least for a time. But bankruptcy sends ripples through the world of creditors of the bankrupt - which include suppliers as well as banks. The creditors get stiffed at one level or another - for instance if Corey's company was owed $1M, the workout might give them half that,which they wuold have to figure out how to fit into their business picture. If the workout %age is high enough, Corey might get to keep his job, but you can bet GM would go to a cash basis with the suppliers, which depending upon their access to credit, might effectively shut them down. If they could restructure everything so that they have sufficient access to credit or cahs and can order and pay suppliers and their labor force so that it doesn't kill everyone below them in the supply chain, it is probably a good thing. I realize there's a lot of speculation in this, but the unknowns are much greater than the knowns right now.
Posted by: pogo
| November 17, 2008 2:24 PM
Pats-------NOW --u had to go and get me all riled up----im a gonna get my favorite pony cheyenne over by the madam(chloe)that runs that women parlor in town( don't know what all those near nekid gals do their all day---but they's a always dancin and carrin on like there was no tommorro----i don't care as long as she served good red eye-----whyski is not allowed----since we don't take kindly to any one named jack---or jack daniels hahaha-------ok u asked for it ------i see all those smart ass women in your videeeo,,,,,,,and see what u can do against one of the mostes meanest famileees thar ever was-----Hos ,,,little joe, ben, and all the CARTRIGHTS(wrights??), and the little meanst china cook ever was----see u by the Ponderosa---little lady
Posted by: SolarCrete
| November 17, 2008 2:28 PM
One thing about storms, when they begin to pick-up things and smash them into other things, the level of destruction increases dramatically.
Anybody that thinks this storm we're in has slowed down , ain't paying attention. And anybody that thinks the flying debris from the American auto makers being swept away won't drive into their lives , well they're just foolin' themselves.
GM Collapse at $200 Billion May Exceed Bailout Plan (Update1)
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=ad09qxbiElB8&refer=home
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 2:29 PM
Pogo,
I'd just like to see a more well thought out plan for the car companies. I think that bankruptcy would give everyone some time to really look at what's required instead of another knee jerk bailout.
It would also allow for the new administration to look at it with a few months of history to judge the effects of the existing bailout plan.....
Posted by: jaxtrader
| November 17, 2008 2:30 PM
as someone who does take advantage of the VA Medical Health Care, I have to say by and large my care has been extraordinary. Almost no one has been rude to me at any time. There was a doctor that was sorta cranky but I think I just caught her on a bad day.
I recently broke my ankle and I had to spend a couple of days at the hospital in out patient clinics and I did have to wait a little but probably no more than I would have under private care.
I have been in the system for a few years now and it is getting more crowded. I was lucky to get in when I did as I did not have service related injuries. Without the VA I have no health care.
Posted by: Torpedo.Vindecator
| November 17, 2008 2:41 PM
jax I hear ya. I'm really wandering in the wilderness wrt the big 3's problems and how they could best be addressed. If it just boiled down to money, it would be pretty simple (in relative terms) to address. I think there is much more to it than that, though. Bankruptcy might be the best approach, but the timeframes in bankruptcy cases are awfully short to try and straighten out the problems that have brought the core industry of our manufacturing sector to the brink of, well, bankruptcy.
Posted by: pogo
| November 17, 2008 2:42 PM
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/weekend-roundup.html#comment-174186
Bowman
Take that back! You will hurt my Cavalier's feelings. She will be ten years old next year and has never had a major problem of any kind, just keeps going and going with lub jobs and tire changes.
Posted by: Jamie
| November 17, 2008 2:43 PM
Anybody want to guess where this quote came from?
" Change is nothing but an idea until it is actually implemented."
Posted by: Bowmanc
| November 17, 2008 2:43 PM
Anon..... ROTFLMAO!!
(being a woman..... I don't have to worry about the weeny thing too much)......
geez..... just when I wanted to take the afternoon off and get into my book about the great whites.... you guys post some really interesting stuff and give me much food for thought....
Jax.... that union angle is completely new to me..... the angles to all the points of view and facts on this subject could obviously fill a book.....
Pogo.... I'm glad you mentioned Corey..... knowing that his job could be at stake helps me to see this problem in terms of real human beings' lives....
I buy my gasoline at a local Mobile/Exxon station..... I have friends that won't touch the place because they're pissed at that company's record profits....... though that attitude is understandable..... I point out that the station is owned by a local man who has no control over their profits..... he's been with Mobile for years and I assume it wouldn't pay him to switch to another company...... I go there because I support him and his family....
it can be fun to bash big corporations..... especially it's CEO's.... but let's not forget they mostly consist of regular people just trying to make a living.....
Posted by: RebelliousRenee
| November 17, 2008 2:45 PM
Pogo,
I'm with you. I just get the impression that in the next 2 weeks congress is going to come with some ill advised, not well thought out, plan that won't work and we'll end up at bankruptcy anyway.....
Posted by: jaxtrader
| November 17, 2008 2:45 PM
Jamie,
Are you accusing me of being cavalier, with respect to your Cavalier?
Posted by: Bowmanc
| November 17, 2008 2:46 PM
RR
Those "legacy" costs are huge. The question is what would be cheaper for the government. A bail out now that could just be more money down the drain unless it had all sorts of strings attached or let them go into bankruptcy while the taxpayer picked up the tab for the guaratee on the pensions and came up with some sort of "universal" health plan to cover all those workers.
Bankruptcy might actually spur the move to a health care plan that would cover all companies.
Posted by: Jamie
| November 17, 2008 2:47 PM
The Top Ten Pop/Rock by Female Artists
10. Where Did Our Love Go - Ross
9. Different Drum- Ronstad
8. Bobbie McGee - Joplin- same
7. Piece o' My Heart - same Blue Bayou
6. Heat Wave - Reeves
5. White Rabbit - Slick
4. I Fall to Pieces - Cline
3. Respect - Franklin
2. Walk On By - Warwick
1. Anyone Who Had a Heart - same
Posted by: xrepublican
| November 17, 2008 2:50 PM
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/weekend-roundup.html#comment-174221
jax, isn't that why they're holding a lame duck session? buckle up, it could be a wild ride.
Posted by: pogo
| November 17, 2008 2:51 PM
Solar
I don't know what it is about "Whiter Shade of Pale" by Procol Harem, but I simply cannot turn off that song until it is over. It just has an hynotic quality.
I change my list so often, the keyboard has holes in it.
Posted by: Jamie
| November 17, 2008 2:51 PM
Lizbeth -
"I imagine she knows as much or more about energy issues than anyone."
Try Daniel Yergin, Amory Lovins, Matthew Simmons, just to name 3 off the top of my head.
Daniel Yergin, -
The Prize: The Epic Quest for Oil, Money, and Power
Amory Lovins
Winning the Oil Endgame: Innovation for Profits, Jobs and Security
Matthew Simmons
Twilight in the Desert: The Coming Saudi Oil Shock and the World Economy.
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 2:53 PM
Sorry ! Editing errors again - I'm gonna hafta fire this dolt !
The Top Ten Pop/Rock by Female Artists
10. Where Did Our Love Go - Ross
9. Different Drum- Ronstad
8. Bobbie McGee - Joplin
7. Piece o' My Heart - same
6. Heat Wave - Reeves
5. White Rabbit - Slick
4. I Fall to Pieces - Cline
3. Respect - Franklin
2. Walk On By - Warwick
1. Anyone Who Had a Heart - same
Posted by: xrepublican
| November 17, 2008 2:53 PM
Jamie---whiter shade of pale---touches yer insides:-)
Posted by: SolarCrete
| November 17, 2008 2:55 PM
Pogo,
Laughs.... I'm sure the "Good Intentions" excuse will rear its ugly head soon after the lame ducks go home....
Posted by: jaxtrader
| November 17, 2008 2:56 PM
"Anybody that thinks this storm we're in has slowed down , ain't paying attention. "
There has been a trend here that appears to be growing. People losing their jobs in mid-life and moving back supposedly to care for elderly parents. But after a bit of conversation, you realize that's not it at all -- it's because there is no work here. And Nashville is said to have a strong work market. The "open house" I'm attending tomorrow is one more case.
Posted by: Patsi
| November 17, 2008 2:56 PM
I have to admit it... sometimes I have no clue what people are saying in this blog...
Posted by: EuroTom
| November 17, 2008 3:00 PM
Speaking of lame ducks....Does anyone know how many seats are really changing??
I bet it's not a high percentage....
Posted by: jaxtrader
| November 17, 2008 3:01 PM
The substance of the woman is shown by ET's, Pogo's, and others' post-election fixation on her. If there was nothing there, there, she would have instantly gone the way of Mrs Dole.
Posted by: Flatus
| November 17, 2008 3:02 PM
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/weekend-roundup.html#comment-174211
Lizbeth
Drilling simply isn't the answer. First the supplies aren't great enough. Second, there is not enough refinery capacity even if communities would allow a new one to be built. Third the damage to the environment because of burning that fuel or leaks into pristine areas is horrendous (Alaska is still suffering the effects of the Exxon Valdez). For the second year in a row, the Northwest Passage will not freeze over.
Just as the Amazon is the lungs of the planet, the polar regions are the cooling system. We have to stop burning this stuff.
With supplies becoming limited, oil is getting too valuable to burn. In fairly short order, what oil we have will need to be reserved for things made from petroleum. It can't be wasted on our automobiles.
The sooner we can transistion to alternative fuels the better and if it can be electric for the cars either via battery or solar cells, even better. This is going to take time and a lot of creative brain power. We have put it off far too long.
Posted by: Jamie
| November 17, 2008 3:02 PM
The mean fellahs ah them stinkin' cayuses over crosst the crick, the Cartwrongs.
Meaner'n scorpeens and maddern hornets on hot day, thay'uz. The'd shoot a man fir smilin' ar string 'im up slow fir laffin'. Ah tellya firshir, them'r mean unz.
Posted by: xrepublican
| November 17, 2008 3:07 PM
jamie,
Exxon Valdez was 20 years ago (1989). The last report that I saw from Alaska game and fish was the estuary has made a remarkable recovery and that it is cleaner than before the spill. It's in a Texas Parks & wildlife mag....I'll see if I can find it.
Posted by: jaxtrader
| November 17, 2008 3:07 PM
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/weekend-roundup.html#comment-174222
Bowman,
Cavalier and off hand. So keey your hands off.
Posted by: Jamie
| November 17, 2008 3:10 PM
ty,
Riders on the storm - Th' Doors
All Along th' Watchtower (Dylan) Hendrix' version
Pride & Joy - SRV
I'm a Man - Chicago Transit Authority (Spenser Davis Group - same result)
Dixie Chicken - Li'l Feat
Satisfaction - Stones
Free Bird - Lynard Skynard
Whippin' Post - Allman Brothers Band
(and the 2 I mentioned above - I dig R&R Music and Anticipation)
. . . and there are about 1000 more.
Posted by: pogo
| November 17, 2008 3:10 PM
Matthew Simmons on Peak Oil - 28 min - Oct 29, 2006
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-429585738009344102
Charlie Rose - Amory Lovins / Ian Schrager - 57 min - Nov 28, 2006
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4569577556800822039
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 3:12 PM
A conversation about oil with Charles Maxwell and Daniel Yergin
http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/9547
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 3:14 PM
Well, nobody took the bait on this so I'll just have to give away the answer.
Anybody want to guess where this quote came from?
" Change is nothing but an idea until it is actually implemented."
Craig Crawford-Attack the Messanger page 89.
Rule 15 Leading the Way for Change Seldom Pays
It looks like this chapter may need some change when a new edition of this book is published.
Posted by: Bowmanc
| November 17, 2008 3:15 PM
You guys are coming up with one great song after another. At the moment, I have Barry Manilow's "failure" album playing in the background. Since it is the best album he ever made, if you have never heard 2:00 AM Paradise Cafe and like jazz and piano plus two duets with Sarah Vaughn and Mel Torme, buy it.
http://www.amazon.com/2-00-AM-Paradise-Caf%C3%A9/dp/B000002VSF
Posted by: Jamie
| November 17, 2008 3:16 PM
jaxtrader,
I don't trust anything written or said about oil and oil spills that comes out of TX, WY, OK, or LA.
Posted by: xrepublican
| November 17, 2008 3:16 PM
Excuse me. The book is The Politics of Life not Attack the Messenger
Posted by: Bowmanc
| November 17, 2008 3:16 PM
Hello all- Here's my songs I"ve got to listen to or start dancing.- 10 is a wicked short list, Seems kinda like sacrilege to not have listed Beatles, Springsten, Clapton, U2, Patsy, Bonnie.JT.........
Landslide- Stevie Nicks
Touch of Grey- The Dead
Get Up Offa That Thing- James Brown
Brown Eyed Girl- Van Morrison
Dixie Chicken- Little Feat
Teach Your Children- Crosby, Stills & Nash
Mustang Sally- Otis Redding
Tired of Being Alone- Al Green
Society's Child- Janis Ian
All I Wanna Do - Sheryl Crow
Posted by: oldseahag
| November 17, 2008 3:17 PM
ok.... off the top of my head....
White Rabbit..... Jefferson Airplane
American Pie.... Don McClean
Chain of Fools.... Aretha..... the one and only Queen, IMO....
Sacrifice...... Elton John
Tiny Dancer.... same as above
Stairway to Heaven..... Led Zeppelin
Locomotive Breath.... Jethro Tull
and many others too numerous to mention....
Posted by: RebelliousRenee
| November 17, 2008 3:19 PM
Xrep
Don't know that much about....it was just a quote from some Alaska game and fish guy....I do have some experience with marsh remediation however and I can tell you that most ecosystems are sufficently resilient to recover after 20 years if corrective action is taken....in most cases much less time is required.
Posted by: jaxtrader
| November 17, 2008 3:19 PM
Jamie.....
forgive me...... buuuuut....
I can't stand Barry Manilow.....
I have this fantasy of smearing his lily white suit with dog shit......
hey...... aren't most fantasies kinda sick...... :0)
Posted by: RebelliousRenee
| November 17, 2008 3:23 PM
Exxon Valdez oil spill -
http://www.eoearth.org/article/Exxon_Valdez_oil_spill
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 3:25 PM
Stormy
Windy
Brandy
Pilot of the Airwaves
Who Let The Dogs Out
Barbie Girl
In the Year 2525
Staying Alive
The Night Chicago Died
Play That Funky Music
Posted by: Bowmanc
| November 17, 2008 3:26 PM
OOPS, wrong list!!!!!!
Posted by: Bowmanc
| November 17, 2008 3:28 PM
What was that list entitled Bowmanc?
Posted by: oldseahag
| November 17, 2008 3:31 PM
Jamie---thanks a lot---i can't stop (in my head) 2 songs now ---whiter shade of pale-----and one i forgot to list----all of me
going for a run and some bow flex when i get back--later
Posted by: SolarCrete
| November 17, 2008 3:32 PM
RR
But have you heard 2:00 AM Paradise Cafe? You are not allowed to hate Manilow until you have listened to it.
It is the album that even he has said is the one he wants people to remember.
The other musicians include: Shelly Manne, Gerry Mulligan, and Mundell Lowe
The Johnny Mercer lyrics on some of the songs don't hurt either.
Posted by: Jamie
| November 17, 2008 3:32 PM
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/weekend-roundup.html#comment-174232
ET
Do what I do: Either go to the next message or ask for a translation. Of course, sometimes the translations are weirder than the originals. :-)
Posted by: Jamie
| November 17, 2008 3:34 PM
tylenol-----u r a trouble maker--period---now i can't get one of the dumbest songs ever made out of my head------u try living with wooly bully--wooly bully all dsy ----thanks a lot :-)))
Posted by: SolarCrete
| November 17, 2008 3:36 PM
A pit dug on a Prince William Sound beach in 2001 revealing oil in the sediments. (Source: NOAA)
http://www.eoearth.org/image/Exxon_Valdez_pit.jpg
Not Recovering
These resources are showing little or no clear improvement since spill injuries occurred: Common loon Cormorants (3 species), Harbor seal, Harlequin duck, Pacific herring, Pigeon guillemot
Recovery unknown
Limited data on life history or extent of injury is available. Current research is either inconclusive or not complete: Cutthroat trout, Dolly Varden, Kittlitz’s murrelet, Rockfish Subtidal communities
Recovered
Recovery objectives have been met: Archaeological resources, Bald eagle, Black oystercatcher, Common murre, Pink salmon, River otter, Sockeye salmon
Recovering
Clams, Wilderness Areas, Intertidal communities, Killer whale (AB pod), Marbled murrelet, Mussels, Sea otter, Sediments
--------------------------------------
It should be noted that nature is more complicated than we would like.
An example would be the Pacific herring listed as not recovered.
They are a major link in the food chain of Alaskan waters.
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 3:40 PM
solar, hope wooly bully is the right tempo for your run. LOLOL
Posted by: pogo
| November 17, 2008 3:42 PM
wait a minute....
was this a list of stupid songs you can't get out of your head or a list of songs you have to stop and listen to when they come on the radio?....
my list is for songs I love that I have to stop and listen to when they come on the radio....
sorry Jamie..... me voluntarily listening to Manilow..... no can do.....
it's just one of my quirks.... but I'm happy you like to listen to him..... :)
Posted by: RebelliousRenee
| November 17, 2008 3:47 PM
Cormorants haven't recovered? Feathered rats? 'nuff said.
Posted by: pogo
| November 17, 2008 3:48 PM
"I'm a fan of Genghis Khan. He was much less brutal than Alexander, the Romans, the Crusaders, or the Conquistadores, all of whom practiced genocide."
xr, genghis spread more than joy.
A Prolific Genghis Khan, It Seems, Helped People the World
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C02EFD9153BF932A25751C0A9659C8B63
Posted by: patd | November 17, 2008 3:52 PM
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/weekend-roundup.html#comment-174265
Same with me renee, but there are a couple that I can't turn off even if I turn them off, if you get my drift(Anticipation being the last one I've had to endure on and off for hours after having heard about a bar and a half). The other 8 I let play and won't let Mrs. P turn them off.
Posted by: pogo
| November 17, 2008 3:59 PM
Acute Mortality
Scientists estimate mass mortalities of 1000 to 2800 sea otters, 302 harbor seals, and unprecedented numbers of seabird deaths estimated at 250,000 in the days immediately after the oil spill. Mass mortality also occurred among macroalgae and benthic invertebrates on oiled shores from a combination of chemical toxicity, smothering, and physical displacement from the habitat by pressurized wash-water applied after the spill.
-----------------------------
Remember this was just stuff we found on the beaches, everything that died and sank in the ocean didn't make the list.
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 4:01 PM
craig, your word for today
hypergraphia
wiki says:
Hypergraphia is an overwhelming urge to write.
Posted by: patd | November 17, 2008 4:02 PM
TOP TEN POP/ROCK by Male Artists
1. I Only Have Eyes For You - Johnson & Wilson
2. Blue Bayou - Orbison
3. Teacher, Teacher - Mathis
4. Why Do Fools Fall in Love - Lyman
5.The Lion Sleeps Tonight - Margo & Margo
6. Rose in a Spanish Harlem - King/Nelson
7. Broadway - King/Nelson
8.North Country (?) - Dylan/Zimmerman
9. Day-O - Belafonte
10. You've Lost That Lovin' Feeling - Righteous & Righteous
Posted by: xrepublican
| November 17, 2008 4:04 PM
Pogo.... I get your drift....
a stupid song I must listen to..... hell.... I even sing along with it..... is the one with the lines..... if you want to be happy for the rest of you life.... never make a pretty woman your wife..... so from my personal point of view.... get an ugly girl to marry you.....
I don't know it's title.... I don't know who recorded it..... I don't want to look it up...... it's stupid.... it's premise is sexist...... but I sing it every damn time it comes on the radio...... go figure!.....
Posted by: RebelliousRenee
| November 17, 2008 4:05 PM
RR not fussing at you. I'm not a manilow fan either except for this one album.... His money making power ballads just aren't my thing, but I just love the meloncholy blues of this album and the fact that it was all done in one take just a group of musicians and singers getting together to do wonderful things.
Posted by: Jamie
| November 17, 2008 4:10 PM
I have posted a question on Facebook regarding when it's appropriate for Americans to put up Christmas decorations. I am chomping at the bit, but in Belgium, you are to wait to after Sinterklaas... I am getting differing opinions and would love to hear about other folks' traditions...
I am tentatively planning for this week... but am still soliciting opinions...
OH yeah, feel free to visit my FACEBOOK profile
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1441770734
off to bed...
OH RENEE that is Jimmy SOUL... Cher was singing along with it in MERMAIDS! I LOVE THIS SONG...even though it's dreadfully sexist...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwpR2-9EvsQ
Posted by: EuroTom
| November 17, 2008 4:10 PM
Thanks Anon,
The loss of Pacific Herring is a terrible problem. Ecologically and economically.
On the other hand, no one would miss Dolly Vardens but other Dolly Vardens.
Posted by: xrepublican
| November 17, 2008 4:12 PM
Oh goody I get to torture RR
The one and only Jimmy Soul
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NF5XU-k2Vk
Posted by: Jamie
| November 17, 2008 4:12 PM
The best Barry Manilow album is 2:00 Paradise Cafe .. best song "WHEN OCTOBER COMES" I love singing along with it... Not so sure the neighbours appreciate it, but I love to sing... so they have to deal...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zWAzqbjbg8
Best covers from other albums: MEMORY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQMYALVdqK8
and
READ EM and WEEP!
Posted by: EuroTom
| November 17, 2008 4:13 PM
Damages Cut Against Exxon in Valdez Case -
June 26, 2008
The plaintiffs have received an average of $15,000 each as compensation, and Wednesday’s decision means they will receive a similar amount in punitive damages.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/26/washington/26punitive.html
-----------------------------------------
What I found funny was that the Governor of Alaska couldn't recall a single Supreme Court case except Roe V Wade. When her own constituents had waited 19 years to be screwed by the Supreme Court.
Remember Hazelton was drunk that night when he put the ship on the rocks.
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 4:17 PM
ET
When October Goes and I've Never Been So Low on Love are the standards that came from the album, but I love "Big City Blues' with Mel Torme .
Read Em and Weep is better by Meatloaf, but the Manilow version isn't bad.
Posted by: Jamie
| November 17, 2008 4:17 PM
I forgot :
Hello Stranger - Lewis
Goldfinger - Bassey
Dock of the Bay - Redding
The Work Song - Brown Jr.
Posted by: xrepublican
| November 17, 2008 4:19 PM
Also some fan mixed Barry's "I'm Your Man" song to a montage of Lee Majors photos! The album MANILOW was Barry's only foray in a totally original music album on RCA. Shortly afterwards he returned to Arista.
Here is the Lee Majors montage...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBeYD-mkCsk
And a cool song
I'm Gonna Sit Right Down and Write Myself a Letter
Billy Williams
I still remember my Mom having the 45 rpm of it !!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoeT9gmwl7Q
Dayum, y'all start talking about records and I am sucked right into the convo...
Posted by: EuroTom
| November 17, 2008 4:21 PM
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/weekend-roundup.html#comment-174272
AAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!! (Thank god I can't open youtube here, and won't when I get home).
ET - the Christmas decoration date gets earlier and earlier. Used to be Thanksgiving, but stores have had decorations up here since the day after Halloween, and the guy in our neighborhood who wants his house to be seen from space began hanging his lights a week ago.
Posted by: pogo
| November 17, 2008 4:21 PM
Did someone mention MEATLOAF?
Dead Ringer for Love
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGhoRRm0I5M
and don't forget:
Hot Patootie!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9WR2Pwn4j4
Posted by: EuroTom
| November 17, 2008 4:23 PM
Robert Palmer - Man Smart, Woman Smarter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuAbc5tLVlQ
Posted by: Animal Control | November 17, 2008 4:24 PM
Enjoying being reminded of all the good music.
Some of my favorites:
Lifes been good - Joe Walsh
Smooth - Santana
It had to be you - Rod Stewart
Miss you - Mick Jagger
Bad to the Bone - George Thorogood
She's always a woman to me - Billy Joel
Hurt so good - John Mellencamp
Hero - Enrique Iglesias
It had to be you - Rod Stewart
Lyin' eyes - Eagles
Posted by: chloe
| November 17, 2008 4:25 PM
Jamie.... ETom beat you to it.....
but thanks to both of you!..... now I know who did it and what he looks like....
and speaking of sea creatures..... I'm reading this fascinating book by Susan Casey entitled "Devil's Teeth"..... it's a non fiction book about the great white sharks that spend 3 months (mid Oct-mid Dec) around a group of uninhabitable islands only 27 miles away from San Francisco called the Farallones...... the same sharks return there year after year..... and the scientists studying them can identify them from scars on their fins..... the islands have been sanctioned as wildlife preserves and you have to be permitted to land on them..... Ms Casey was allowed to spend some time with the scientist in order to write the book.....
Posted by: RebelliousRenee
| November 17, 2008 4:29 PM
oops.....replace the second Rod Stewart with anything Billy Joel.
Posted by: chloe
| November 17, 2008 4:29 PM
Let's do the TIME WARP AGAIN
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdu7xoHU9DA&
It's astounding
Time is fletting
Madness take sit's toll
But listen closely
Magenta:
Not for very much longer
Riff-Raff:
I've got to keep control
I remember doing the timewarp
Drinking those moments when
The blackness would hit me
Both:
And the void would be calling
All:
Let's do the Timewarp again
Let's do the Timewarp again
and my particular favourite:
Sweet Transvestite!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AR6wKRWFOoE&
How d'you do, I see you've met my faithful handyman
He's just a little brought down because when you knocked
He thought you were the candyman.
Don't get strung out by the way that I look,
Don't judge a book by its cover
I'm not much of a man by the light of day,
But by night I'm one hell of a lover
Posted by: EuroTom
| November 17, 2008 4:30 PM
Piano man..
Posted by: chloe
| November 17, 2008 4:30 PM
Pogo -
The one thing we've heard for years out of the Federalist Society is that the constitution is to be read as written. If it ain't there, it don't exist as a right.
But the rights of corporations do not appear in that document, and only through judicial activism were they extended rights .
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 4:30 PM
Meatloaf and Manilow in the same sentence - Wow !
I once came across a list of worst music by well known musicians. The top of the list was LaBamba by the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. I had to get a copy. Imagine LaBamba performed as a stately pavane.
My personal choice was a 1943 NY Philharmonic performance where Toscanini and the orchestra disagreed as to which page they were on, turning a movement of a romantic symphony into a sort of shoenberg cacaphony.
Posted by: xrepublican
| November 17, 2008 4:33 PM
Padt http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/weekend-roundup.html#comment-174213
Pogo-------Antiiiiiicccapation,,,,,Antiiiiiiicccaption,,,,,in my really really bad voice----imagine Ernest Borgnine?/singing :-)))))))
Patsi---did u get the link on time??
Posted by: SolarCrete
| November 17, 2008 4:36 PM
billy Joel's most beautiful song:
Honesty
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgmJ1miBzek
gives me shudders still !!
and NEW YORK STATE OF MIND...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZh8YjbDiVk
So these are for Chloe and Billy Joel fans all around !!
Posted by: EuroTom
| November 17, 2008 4:37 PM
".... I don't know who recorded it..... I don't want to look it up...... it's stupid.... it's premise is sexist...... but I sing it every damn time it comes on the radio...... go figure!....."
ROFL -- I know what you mean, Renee....it's a funny song -- always makes me laugh. Jimmy Soul had the hit.
Posted by: Patsi
| November 17, 2008 4:38 PM
Oops... ok PIANO MAN it is!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCyKcwvV5gE
Really now I sleep... bye all This has been fun...
Posted by: EuroTom
| November 17, 2008 4:39 PM
Yes, Anon, I've always been intrigued by the concept of a corporation as a legal person that sprung out of the Dartmouth College v. Woodward case in 1819. I'm not sure, but I believe that was after the Constitution was written.
Now which song brought that to mind for you? :-)
Posted by: pogo
| November 17, 2008 4:40 PM
In 1881 Congress voted to grant corporations the characteristic of personality. This personality is what gives them standing in courts. Without personality, corporations were dependent on majority stockholders to speak for them. Personality allowed corporations to safely operate without a majority owner, facilitating the creation of the titanic modern corporations.
Lack of personality is also what means foeti have rights.
Posted by: xrepublican
| November 17, 2008 4:41 PM
Screwed up again:
lack of personality means foeti don't have rights.
Posted by: xrepublican
| November 17, 2008 4:43 PM
Thanks, solar - that got it right out of my head. I'll have to remember that and think of Ernie Borgnine singing Carly Simon whenever I hear it - I can't even make that work.
Posted by: pogo
| November 17, 2008 4:44 PM
Anon -- Biden named one case as well. That's what was asked. To name one case.
Posted by: Patsi
| November 17, 2008 4:44 PM
Bringing it back to politics...]
Optimistic voices
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKYhk9Qui2g
Posted by: EuroTom
| November 17, 2008 4:45 PM
"Patsi---did u get the link on time??"
Got it....does this play on the computer? I may have to break down and order the series from the science channel.
Posted by: Patsi
| November 17, 2008 4:46 PM
Sweet Dreams (Are Made Of This)
Eurythmics
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQHrspjw4aA
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 4:48 PM
Patsi -
See the Katie Couric interview. Katie didn't interview Joe.
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 4:52 PM
I heard Joe answer the question....one case.
Posted by: Patsi
| November 17, 2008 4:54 PM
What both of them should have said was "eminent domain."
Posted by: Patsi
| November 17, 2008 4:55 PM
oh yeah.....
one of my all time personal favorites is Mack the Knife by Bobby Darin.....
a selling trick for clothing or accessories (ie.... my scarves) is to give catchy names to colors...... example.... one of the hottest sellers at the moment is anything called "Autumn Orange"..... you can't just write brown on the tag.... you have to call it "Expresso" or "Mocha"......
I made a series of white scarves with a blueish, pinkish accent thread thrown in...... I had to name them something..... here I was reading this book on great white sharks and had just listened to Darin's classic tune...... so I named them "Pearly White"..... they are selling quite well.....
Posted by: RebelliousRenee
| November 17, 2008 4:55 PM
Oh ET if you are going to talk about songs titled, "I'm Your Man", then it has to be Leonard Cohen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NF5XU-k2Vk
Posted by: Jamie
| November 17, 2008 4:57 PM
XR, congress may have codified legal personhood for corporations in 1881, but thedoctrine prediates that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separate_legal_personality
Wiki's is a fair recount of the legal decisions that led to the 1881 legislation you mentioned - although it isn't referred to specifically. Once the courts said corporations could sue and be sued, they became persons under the constitution. You may find it interesting reading.
Posted by: pogo
| November 17, 2008 4:58 PM
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/weekend-roundup.html#comment-174301
Patsi,
The question was to name one case OTHER THAN Roe v Wade and she couldn't come up with one despite the fact that a major one involving the citizens of her state had just been decided days before and made all the headlines.
Posted by: Jamie
| November 17, 2008 5:00 PM
"the madam(chloe)that runs that women parlor in town"
I've been promoted?! Well, at least I own my own business now, thanks to Solar. :)
Thanks Tom for the Billy Joel.
Posted by: chloe
| November 17, 2008 5:00 PM
gotta split.
Posted by: pogo
| November 17, 2008 5:05 PM
Jamie -- If that's the way the question was actually framed, then the answer was poor. I also know that I could put together questions for damn near anyone that would end up making them look stupid...but what the hell.
Lest anyone think I'm the only feminist bitch pissed about some of this continuing coverage, check out this short article where the male writer suggests an unscheduled hysterectomy for Palin. Then be sure and read the comments. ROFL...makes me look like a sweetie.
http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/articles/17907/news--the-angry-grammarian
Posted by: Patsi
| November 17, 2008 5:08 PM
Guys:
13. House of the Rising Sun - Burden
14. Afro Blue - Brown Jr.
Gals:
13. Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow - Owens
14. Tonight You Belong to Me - McIntyre & McIntyre
There are too many to choose just 10
Posted by: xrepublican
| November 17, 2008 5:09 PM
Thanks pogo !
But, you know I fall asleep reading civil law.
ZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Posted by: xrepublican
| November 17, 2008 5:17 PM
Patsi _
The topic was a bit more complex than simply naming another case. Asked which decisions, other that Roe, she disagreed with, her responses went as follows:
PALIN: Well, let's see. There's --of course --in the great history of America rulings there have been rulings, there's never going to be absolute consensus by every American. And there are -- those issues, again, like Roe v Wade where I believe are best held on a state level and addressed there. So you know -- going through the history of America, there would be others but--"
COURIC: Can you think of any?
PALIN: Well, I could think of -- of any again, that could be best dealt with on a more local level. Maybe I would take issue with. But you know, as mayor, and then as governor and even as a Vice President, if I'm so privileged to serve, wouldn't be in a position of changing those things but in supporting the law of the land as it reads today.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/01/palin-cant-name-supreme-c_n_131042.html
----------------------
As said, she had no problem with the Exxon Case.
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 5:19 PM
Chole----had to fit u in there somewhere-----as miss kittie ,seemed good,,,felt in one of those silly moods today cos Patd woke up early and accepted my challenge,,hey don't complain i got Patsi in as whispering pete,,,the fast cowgirl with pistolas that ever wore pants--hope she didn't read it
Posted by: SolarCrete
| November 17, 2008 5:19 PM
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/weekend-roundup.html#comment-174162
Patsi, My reading of the blog has been kinda spotted today, as I've been in and out a several times. But your 12:26 was a great post and I'm so glad you wrote it. No one says it better than you. Thanks.
Posted by: chloe
| November 17, 2008 5:20 PM
I wasn't complaining Solar. I was flattered.
Posted by: chloe
| November 17, 2008 5:21 PM
OMG Corey!
ROFLMAO!!!
everyone have a nice night.....
Posted by: RebelliousRenee
| November 17, 2008 5:21 PM
We supposedly got 7 inches of snow here today. Yeah, I went back to work last night. I am working this week and then we are off again next week. It would have been a short week anyway with the holiday. They got rid of all the temps at work. Things didn't seem quite as bad as I was expecting last night. But, I talked to some maintenance guys since they usually travel around the place to ask them what they knew. They basically told me that things were gonna be very slow. I know that people hate the fact that the Big 3 might get help, but something needs to be done. Otherwise, their problems will trickle down to all their suppliers, big and small.
Posted by: Corey
| November 17, 2008 5:23 PM
XR, false alarm -now I'm stuck until 7. You're welcome - it's what I used to use for insomnia.
Corey, I thought about you earlier, and when I passed an almost empty Lordstown employee lot this weekend.
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/weekend-roundup.html#comment-174212
Posted by: pogo
| November 17, 2008 5:42 PM
One last item on GM and the others -
When Lehman went under on the 15 of Sept.
None of the "free marketeers" mentioned the day before that the world credit markets would lock down.
So becareful what you wish for folks.
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 5:43 PM
Anon -- I could find a dozen examples of politicians stumbling over questions, misrepresenting, outright lying, or-- uh -- plagiarizing.....
Primarily, the best of the best are great at covering what they don't know. They dance, bob, weave and pontificate. You know damn well they are doing it, but ya gotta hand it to 'em.
I'm not saying she was prepared on the issues to answer questions. But I don't think she's some little trailer trash twit, either. She was smart enough to come from nowhere, with no contacts or financial backing, take on the Republican establishment and win the Alaskan governor's office.
You can sneer at that accomplishment, but I do not choose to do so. And while I may differ with her politics, I won't participate in attempts to turn her into a laughing stock.
Posted by: Patsi
| November 17, 2008 5:48 PM
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/weekend-roundup.html#comment-174316
Patsi,
I recognize that Palin has definite talents, particularly in delivery of speeches written for her or when she is safely spouting right wing, knee jerk slogans.
When left on her own her thinking and speaking became hopelessly muddled to the point of not being able to construct a coherent sentence.
She seems likeable enough as a person as long as you don't get in the way of her ambitions. Her speeches towards the end of the campaign were practically an invitation to violence. I'm not sure if she realized what she was stirring up, but some of the people in her audiences were downright scary.
Posted by: Jamie
| November 17, 2008 5:54 PM
Patsi -
Never confuse ambition with brains. They are not the same thing . See the current occupant of the White House as an example.
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 5:55 PM
Anon
ou love those advocacy site to back you up.
But they missed this quote from the material they quoted
From the Noaa web site
"Our survey results indicate a total area of approximately 20 acres of shoreline in Prince William Sound are still contaminated with oil. "
Must not have supported the points they were wanting to make, ya think lol
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack
| November 17, 2008 5:55 PM
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/weekend-roundup.html#comment-174283
Moi mentioned Meatloaf. Favorite other than Paradise by the Dashboard Light is Two Out of Three Aint Bad.
Posted by: Jamie
| November 17, 2008 5:56 PM
Here's my dancing list
Oh What a Night Frankie Valle
Go To Rio Peter Allen
Blue Room Rogers and Hart
I need a New Drug Huey Lewis and the News
The Freddie Freddie and the Dreamers
Louie Louie Richard Berry
You make me feel like dancin’ Leo Sayer
Can’t help myself (sugar pie honey bunch) Four Tops
Come see about me The Supremes
Start me up Rolling Stones
Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker
| November 17, 2008 5:57 PM
Being an Evangelical helped Palin tremendously up here. That mattered at lot more to many people than anything like 'brains' or 'experience'.
Posted by: rosiethecat
| November 17, 2008 6:01 PM
Many years ago at work, we did dancing and lip synching to music in a contest for our summer picnic. One department picked Meatlof's "Paradise By The Dashboard Light". Most of us sat there thinking..."Why the hell would they pick this song?"
Posted by: Corey
| November 17, 2008 6:01 PM
I did not know Gordo was a dentist?
http://missionviejodispatch.com/2008/11/16/will-mv-dentist-remove-barack-obamas-smile/
Posted by: Ping Pong
| November 17, 2008 6:02 PM
"Never confuse ambition with brains. They are not the same thing . See the current occupant of the White House as an example"
lol
one problem you Palin basher seeem to always miss.
Your comparison with GWB is apt in this case.
GWB got where he was because of who he was.
Palin got where she is because of what she was.
She boot strapped herself , to where she is,
Whether you agree with her positions or not, that is a fact that you ignore at your peril if you are a playa on the national scene.
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack
| November 17, 2008 6:05 PM
"Palin got where she is because of what she was."
A hot chick?
Posted by: rosiethecat
| November 17, 2008 6:09 PM
Rosie
Not just being an evangelical, she is straight forward and comfortable with her religion. She can connect with religious people of all stripes. She reminds me very much of a friend who is a liberal pastor. She comes across as real. Bush's religion always felt contrived. imo
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack
| November 17, 2008 6:09 PM
OK, Rosie -- did she govern as an evangelical nut case?
Posted by: Patsi
| November 17, 2008 6:10 PM
And Rosie, hopefully the hot chick comment is beneath you.
Posted by: Patsi
| November 17, 2008 6:11 PM
"Palin got where she is because of what she was."
Would you say as opposed to Obama having an unprecedented amount of help Jack? Or would you say he did the same thing as them, and got to where he is because of who he is?
Posted by: chloe
| November 17, 2008 6:11 PM
could not get the 10 songs thing.....I could name 10 great songs easy enough......I started writing them out and it wouldn't work......the artistry in this question, or project, lies in being able to narrow it to ten......I'm not sure I can do dat.........
Posted by: sturgeone | November 17, 2008 6:13 PM
Rosie
All Alaska is interested in is hot chicks?
I'd didn't realise Lisa Murkowski was so hot, I'll pay more attention. It must be the whale blubber ya'll eat up there. Whale blubber and moose stew , eh?
;-0\
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack
| November 17, 2008 6:13 PM
Palin is now in charge of Palin and not subject to a poorly run campaign of McCain.
Lets see if the boat floats - all the talk now means nothing.
She has done well now that she and improved her position with out the smear of the Presidential campaign.
Posted by: Ping Pong
| November 17, 2008 6:14 PM
*sigh* just kidding-I couldn't help myself. An now, she hasn't, she has been an ok governor, and am I biased because she gave me an extra $1200 this year, probably, but I still don't think she was the best pick for VP.
Posted by: rosiethecat
| November 17, 2008 6:15 PM
Bill vetting could cost Hillary her Cabinet post
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1108/15680.html
So, let me get this straight...
Vice President Dick Cheney "retires" from Halliburton with a sweetheart deal, golden parachute plus deferred comp in the millions. Halliburton then makes godzillions on a war that Cheney insisted was vital to our national security. And anyone who raises an eyebrow about it is dismissed as a conspiracy kook who is too stingy to give Cheney the benefit of the doubt.
Now comes Hillary Clinton, whose SPOUSE has a global charity foundation may or may not create hypothetical future conflicts of interest with countries unspecified. And THAT is considered enough, prima facie, to disqualify her from being Secretary of State? Somehow the burden of proof that Cheney skated right past is now reversed for Hillary? Bull-hockey to that.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| November 17, 2008 6:15 PM
Does Christopher Hitchens like anyone ?
Posted by: xrepublican
| November 17, 2008 6:15 PM
KGC - Is your dance card full?
Posted by: Ping Pong
| November 17, 2008 6:17 PM
Jack
I don't minimize her accomplishments. It's just that all the politicians who drag their fundamentalist beliefs into the public square scare the hell out of me. They keep insisting they have the right to walk their dogma on my lawn.
When you couple that with the truly weird tiny percentage willing to bomb, murder, and injure for the sake of their position on God, I don't want them riling up the crazies.
Posted by: Jamie
| November 17, 2008 6:17 PM
And I never said all Alaska is interested in is hot chicks. Them's your words, not mine.
Posted by: rosiethecat
| November 17, 2008 6:18 PM
Jack -
Yep , she got Bill Kristol and Grover Norquist to take a boat ride on the inside passage and charge a bunch of jackasses a lot of dough to hear their views on the next star of the wing-o-sphere.
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 6:19 PM
Also, I think Hitchens is best buddies with John Barleycorn.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| November 17, 2008 6:21 PM
good lord. Did I start this Palin stuff this morning because I laughed at Dick Cavett's article? If so, I offer my deepest and sincerest apologies. ;-p ( :-) )
Posted by: pogo
| November 17, 2008 6:24 PM
I can't imagine Senator Clinton actually wanting a cabinet position. Why choose to work for someone else unless she has to ? Why step down before 2013 ? It makes no sense.
A Supreme Court nomination would be a different matter.
Posted by: xrepublican
| November 17, 2008 6:26 PM
rosiethecat - you in Alaska?
I got family up there so if you know anyone with family that was in Key West and Alaska - with connections in Orlando, Dallas and Savannah...
Then chances are !!!
One cuz was on an oil rig and the other in the Appliance biz - It is a small state so I am sure you bump into them...
And the one cuz that was on the rig I think also has a home in Hawaii
Posted by: Ping Pong
| November 17, 2008 6:26 PM
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/weekend-roundup.html#comment-174349
Change, LL, change.
Posted by: pogo
| November 17, 2008 6:27 PM
Brains without ambition gets you nowhere? All I know is Palin's getting $7 million to write a book. Not a bad deal for someone who a lot of people think is dumb!
Posted by: Corey
| November 17, 2008 6:28 PM
Jack, re Palin:
You've warned here for weeks that Palin's critics are somehow plagued with political tin ears and dismiss her at their own peril. Yet all the empirical evidence from the last two months of the campaign was that the more everyone got to know her, the less they liked her. Even some of the most fervent backers in the base have had to grudgingly concede that.
So, as a good Democrat, my attitude is as follows: I hope Sarah Palin continues to be on television every day and the Republicans have to find someone else to be their standard bearer.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| November 17, 2008 6:29 PM
The Clinton thing is all smoke & mirrors. It is a setup, where they say she would be great SOS or whatever, there is only this one little problem with Bill's finances. So sorry, we tried, now play nice.
Posted by: Bowmanc
| November 17, 2008 6:30 PM
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/weekend-roundup.html#comment-174361
LOL@pogo
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| November 17, 2008 6:30 PM
Politcians who embrace religion do well where I live. As I pointed out last week, McCain won West Michigan 60% to 37% over Obama. There are people who hate the thought of religion being an influence on a politician, there are others who welcome that.
Posted by: Corey
| November 17, 2008 6:32 PM
XR, th' missus this weekend said she can't imagine why Hillary would seek Sec'y of state if there was the possibility that either a SCOTUS appointment could be considered or that she might have an eye on the governorship of NY after Paterson's term is up. The second possibility had not even occurred to me.
Posted by: pogo
| November 17, 2008 6:33 PM
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/weekend-roundup.html#comment-174365
:-)
Posted by: pogo
| November 17, 2008 6:35 PM
Ping- I need a family name. Most people up here are not from here. Interesrting FYI, just the other day the paper said by the year 2010, whites will be the minority in AK.
Posted by: rosiethecat
| November 17, 2008 6:36 PM
George Carlin's Rules to live by:
#3. Size people up quickly, and develop rigid attitudes based on your first impression. If you try to delve deeper and get to "know" people, you're asking for trouble.
Posted by: Corey
| November 17, 2008 6:38 PM
Jamie--said
It's just that all the politicians who drag their fundamentalist beliefs into the public square scare the hell out of me. They keep insisting they have the right to walk their dogma on my lawn.
When you couple that with the truly weird tiny percentage willing to bomb, murder, and injure for the sake of their position on
God, I don't want them riling up the crazies.
Post of the month-----end religion,,,and u will end wars, terrorism ,,or damn near
Posted by: SolarCrete
| November 17, 2008 6:40 PM
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/weekend-roundup.html#comment-174366
Maybe so, Corey. But I'll see your western Michigan and raise you a place in Michigan that means more. Obama pulled Macomb County 53.3 to 44.8. That's pretty amazing. He did it right in Ground Zero for Reagan Democrats who care more about pocketbook issues than cultural issues. Apparently they weren't buying what McCain-Palin were selling.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| November 17, 2008 6:41 PM
Lardo
Cite please?
I haven't seen it except for some east coast pundants.
Posted by: whskyjack
| November 17, 2008 6:43 PM
Well everyone, have a good one - I have to go gently into the good night - or something like that.
Posted by: pogo
| November 17, 2008 6:43 PM
Posted by: Ping Pong Author Profile Page | November 17, 2008 6:17 PM
There is always room for Ping
Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker
| November 17, 2008 6:43 PM
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/weekend-roundup.html#comment-174374
Jack...
My cite would be virtually every post-election poll I saw that listed the Palin choice as THE major drawback for McCain among voters, putting it above even the age factor and the overalll erratic factor (or perhaps being mutually exacerbated by both of those factors).
The percentages were among all voters, not just those voting for Obama.
I didn't see a single poll saying Palin helped McCain draw support beyond energized voters in the base. (I'm not saying that just because I didn't see them doesn't mean they don't exist. I just didn't see them. And I watched a lot of coverage)
You didn't see those polls? They were pretty much on every network and cable channel and in every newspaper.
It's definitely more empirical than east coast punditry.
And I think it explains the post-election fascination with Palin. She's like watching a car crash or the fights at a hockey match. Hell, even I'm fascinated by her. But that doesn't translate into wanting her to be president.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| November 17, 2008 6:52 PM
Oh I know, LL. Oakland County will not be represented by a Republican for the first time since 1933. I'm just saying people here still overwhelmingly supported Republicans.
Posted by: Corey
| November 17, 2008 6:55 PM
"Would you say as opposed to Obama having an unprecedented amount of help Jack? Or would you say he did the same thing as them, and got to where he is because of who he is?"
Chloe
I was thinking of Obama when I wrote the comparison between GWB and Palin.
My gut tells me that both Palin and Obama got simi;lar help. You don't move into the higher offices as both Palin and Obama did with out some high powered mentors. We know who many of Obama's but I don't have a clue as to Palins. Which is kind of weird with all the silly season stuff that was passed around as news.
There are a number of folks who got where they are because of who they are. Al Gore come to mind, all the Udall cousins, Any Kennedy, Any Bush, HRC herself.
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack
| November 17, 2008 6:56 PM
"beyond energized voters in the base."
There you go, that was her job.
That is also where she has an opportunity to return. When she does it will be as a moderate with strong religious convictions.
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack
| November 17, 2008 6:59 PM
Ambition does nothing if you don't catch a break or two. Or at least have somebody important on your side.
Posted by: Corey
| November 17, 2008 6:59 PM
Also, the widely videotaped fact that she stoked racist feelings in campaign crowds that were 99.9 percent white only to turn around on Nov. 5 and try to ride the Obama feel-good-about-ourselves wave is a level of hypocrisy that won't be lost on most Americans.
I think if this election proved nothing else, it's that Sarah Palin has no concept of what the "real America" really is. And she'll have to do a boatload of repositioning of herself to convince voters otherwise, even four years from now.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| November 17, 2008 6:59 PM
" just kidding-I couldn't help myself. An now, she hasn't, she has been an ok governor, and am I biased because she gave me an extra $1200 this year, probably, but I still don't think she was the best pick for VP."
Agreed, Rosie -- she wasn't the best if they'd had a chance to win, which they did not. But without her the loss would have been HUGE.
Posted by: Patsi
| November 17, 2008 7:01 PM
Jack, I believe that would be her starting point.
Posted by: Corey
| November 17, 2008 7:01 PM
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/weekend-roundup.html#comment-174381
Jack. Fair enough. I think we both agree that "repositioning of herself" is a huge part of Palin's path forward. And we can agree to disagree on the degree of repositioning.
Agree.
Disagree.
Degree.
I think that could be the basis for a haiku.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| November 17, 2008 7:03 PM
But, then again, Palin isn't going to be the next VP. McCain isn't going to be the next president. One day, we will focus on Obama and Biden and how they are doing. Not Palin and book deals etc...
Posted by: Corey
| November 17, 2008 7:04 PM
Lardo
If she is as bad as you and other very intellegent liberals say, why the worry?
I'm kind of amused as all I have done is point out contrary facts and several of you get all heated up about it.
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack
| November 17, 2008 7:05 PM
I think I've taken up my share of bandwidth (and hot air width) tonight, so I will take my leave and try to just lurk for the rest of the night.
Nice seeing you all still active and alert, and I'll catch you later.
--Lardo.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| November 17, 2008 7:05 PM
BTW, Obama said he wants to fix the BCS system in college football.
Posted by: Corey
| November 17, 2008 7:05 PM
Exactly, Jack.
Posted by: Corey
| November 17, 2008 7:06 PM
Jack...I'll grant you that last point as well.
This country has been known to do dumber things even than electing someone like Sarah Palin.
(That's the only reason I'd be worried)
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| November 17, 2008 7:06 PM
"Now comes Hillary Clinton, whose SPOUSE has a global charity foundation may or may not create hypothetical future conflicts of interest with countries unspecified. And THAT is considered enough, prima facie, to disqualify her from being Secretary of State? Somehow the burden of proof that Cheney skated right past is now reversed for Hillary? Bull-hockey to that."
Amazing double standard BS, huh, Lard?
Posted by: Patsi
| November 17, 2008 7:07 PM
" It's just that all the politicians who drag their fundamentalist beliefs into the public square scare the hell out of me. They keep insisting they have the right to walk their dogma on my lawn"
Yet she didn't govern that way. You are projecting.
Posted by: Patsi
| November 17, 2008 7:10 PM
Palin excites the 'base' which is white and uber-conservitive. But aren't the Rep.s trying to redifine themselves as more inclusive? Where is that going to leave the 'base'?
Posted by: rosiethecat
| November 17, 2008 7:10 PM
LardassLiberal-----------------------
From the previous thread:
------------------------------------------
Read what Craig wrote about McCain and Rev Wright.
McCain Shuns the Wright Factor
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/mccain-shuns-the-wright-factor.html
------------------------------------------
Do you understand the connection between McCain not using the Rev Wright video (which we know does exist) and his decision to not use MO "whitey" video?
------------------------------------------
McCain / Whitey Tape
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/obamas-leaky-transition.html#comment-173967
Posted by: GORDO | November 17, 2008 7:13 PM
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/weekend-roundup.html#comment-174390
Corey
I believe that is on the schedule for day 6, just after peace in the middle east.
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack
| November 17, 2008 7:14 PM
I was listening to the Tom Joyner Morning Show on the way home from work. One of the guys on the show said, "Did you notice how everyone was talking about Hillary Clinton over the weekend?" He said that Obama was gaging Hillary's interest in the SOS position. He said people were questioning why Obama would offer her a position in his cabinet. He said that people forget how Obama looks at Lincoln and how he chose people for his cabinet. He picked the best people for the job, regardless of his relationship with them. He said the position of SOS would be a good move for Hillary because she really wouldn't have any power in the senate. The only obstacle in her way of becoming the SOS was Bill Clinton.
Posted by: Corey
| November 17, 2008 7:15 PM
"Yet all the empirical evidence from the last two months of the campaign was that the more everyone got to know her, the less they liked her. Even some of the most fervent backers in the base have had to grudgingly concede that."
Not so, Lard. Her base -- or the one invented for her by the RNC -- is the religious right. Unfortunately, she might have gone another direction. Worked with Democrats, downplayed her fundie tendencies. But NO -- the same asshole "progressives" who trashed Hillary Clinton found new meat -- and right wing meat at that. So all of the Democrats could condone the BS. Now she's in the pocket.
I worked with so many women like her in the 70s feminist movement. And they ended up standing with us about the ERA. Now we've got a-holes turning them away in droves.
Posted by: Patsi
| November 17, 2008 7:15 PM
I saw actress Janine Turner on tv before the election. She was praising Sarah Palin. She thought the world of her.
Posted by: Corey
| November 17, 2008 7:19 PM
Patsi
Are telling me Palin is no Phil Kline, Kansas former Attorney General. But She could be a John Ashcroft though. While he was Governor he was a moderate conservative who left his religion at home. It was when he went to Washington that he changed.
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack
| November 17, 2008 7:20 PM
"But aren't the Rep.s trying to redifine themselves as more inclusive"
Rosie
That was the former strategy, Bush's. He wanted to expand the culture wars into the Latino and Black communities. I saw some local evidence of it working in 2004. The problem is everytime he strayed to far thye racist wing of the party would raise it's head and remind everyone why they were democrats.
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack
| November 17, 2008 7:26 PM
Corey..FYI on Janine Turner, from her current Wiki entry. I guess we shouldn't be surprised that there are conservative actors who rose to stardom on vehicles (like Northern Exposure) informed by liberal values:
"Turner was born Janine Loraine Gauntt in Lincoln, Nebraska, the daughter of Janice, a real estate agent, and Turner M. Gauntt, a pilot who attended West Point and flew for Braniff for 30 years.[4][5] Her father is from East Texas, while her mother is from South Texas.[6] She has a brother, Tim, and was raised in Euless, Texas.
Turner lives on a longhorn cattle ranch outside of Dallas, Texas, with her daughter, Juliette Turner-Jones.[7]
In the early 1990s she dated Mark Grace of the Cubs and even appeared during a game with Harry Caray in the broadcast booth.
As a conservative Republican, in the 2008 election, she campaigned for VP candidate Alaska Governor Sarah Palin and expressed her concern for what she perceives as a decidedly liberal bias in the media as a guest on the Fox News Channel show Huckabee on October 25, 2008 and on the CNN show Larry King Live on October 28, 2008. Turner is a frequent contributor to Republican Party candidates and organizations, donating at least $7,000 over the past decade.[8] She has endorsed the McCain-Palin ticket and is currently working as a spokesperson for Team Sarah, a women's group supporting Governor Sarah Palin's Vice Presidential candidacy.[9]"
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| November 17, 2008 7:27 PM
Patsi...the verdict is definitely still out. And the ball is definitely in Palin's court. We'll all see together what she does with it.
But the bottom line is, she'll have to figure out how to come to the country, not the other way around.
The Mountain ain't gonna come to Mohammed on this one.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| November 17, 2008 7:29 PM
" Palin was brilliant at energizing the "Obama is a terrorist crowd" not to mention the PUMA crowd, Noquater is still gushing over her. "
And the Obama surrogates were brilliant at energizing the "Bill Clinton is a racist crowd."
Posted by: Patsi
| November 17, 2008 7:30 PM
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/weekend-roundup.html#comment-174403
Jack...LOL.
Say "como se llama" to the typical conservative Republican and he'll say right back:
"Comb your own damn Mama"
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| November 17, 2008 7:31 PM
"Is a Palin a feminist this week? It's hard to keep track. "
And you are such a great judge of that....becauase, gee, weren't you with Betty Ford, Pat Schroeder and the rest of us who were working across lines back in the ERA fight? Oh, maybe you were not.
Posted by: Patsi
| November 17, 2008 7:34 PM
Phil Berg on Alex Jones
------------------------------
I don't agree with everything Berg and Jones say in these videos.
------------------------------
Part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRST0apbCzU&feature=related
Part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqUI6ZtScuY&feature=related
Posted by: GORDO | November 17, 2008 7:38 PM
Part 3:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WDO_PD3s7E&feature=related
Posted by: GORDO | November 17, 2008 7:39 PM
just catching up with thread ---looks like u r all Palin ed out so
Jesus--continued
The jewish historian Flavius Josephus was invited to go to rome after Vespasian became emperor( flavius predicted that he would become emperor) he was given roman citizenship,,and spent the rest of his life writing books explaining why jews had revolted against rome and why he himself had defected to the roman side,,he could not have fabricated the basic facts of history...the events recounted by josephus makes it clear that guerrilla activism and the jewish military-messianic consciousness rose and fell in synergetic waves.-----the country was filled with strange holy men who spoke in parables and allegories and made phroohicies about he coming battle for world dominion...successful guerrilla leaders inspired rumors that flourished in the light and shadow of these perennially renewed messianic speculation. a steady stream of charismatic leaders stepped forward into the glare of history to claim messiahship,, at least two of hem precipitated insurrections that actually shook the foundation of the roman empire.
Herod the great first attracted the attention of his roman patrons because he waged a vigorous campaign against a bandit chief who controlled an entire disrict in northern galilee. according to josephus, herod trapped this bandit chief whose name was Hezekiah, and executed him on the spot,,,,but we know that Hezekiah was a guerrilla leader,,,,that soon led to herods appointment as puppet king of the jews in 39 b.c.
upon herods death in 4 b.c.uprising took place in all outlying areas. Varus, the roman governor of s
Syria, restored law and order. He captured 2,000 rigngleaders and had them all crucified this wvent occurred in the year that jesus was born-----Judas of Galilee soon emerged as the leader of the main guerrilla forces. he "aspired to royalty" and at times characterizes him as a very clever rabbi. in 6 a.d. the romans tried to carry out a census,,,judas warned his countrymen would resist cos the census would lead to nothing less than complete slavery,,said that the jews have no king but jahweh,,jahweh would surely assist them if they had faith in their cause,,,,those that submitted to rome were treated as enemys
jesus actively began to preach his messianic doctrines about 28 a.d. at that time a shooting war was being fought, not only in galiee , but in judea, and jerusalem as well. the jesus cult was neither the largest not the most threatening of the rebellious situations with which Pontius Pilate, the roman governor who decreed jesus death, had to contend.----Pilate transgressed the Jewish taboo on graven images in Jerusalem,,later pilate was surrounded by another angry mob protesting the misuse of temple funds for the construction of an aqueduct. ,,,,A HA( i bet that not too many know this little nugget?),,from the Gospels we know that Jesus himself led an attack on the temple, and that some sort of uprising took place shortly before Jesus trial, since the popular bandit Barabbas and several of his men were in jail at that point...
After Jesus was killed, the romans continued to try to clear the Judean country side of bandits Josephus reports that an other great bandit chief named Tholomaios was captured in 44 a.d. shortly thereafter , a messianic figure named Theudus appeared in the deseret. Hhis followers abandoned their homes and posessions and madded on the banks of the jordan River. Some say Theudas intended to make the waters part as they had done for joshua.others that this messiah was going the other way westward, toward jerusalem/ No matter-the roman governor Cuspius Fadus sent the cavalry, they beheaded theudus and slaughtered his followers.
Posted by: SolarCrete
| November 17, 2008 7:43 PM
I prefer when people stay the way they are, unless of course the change is an improvement.
Posted by: Corey
| November 17, 2008 7:44 PM
Geez Gordo...I'm already trying to get through Sopranos Season Five.
Don't think I've got 90 minutes to invest in your garbage.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| November 17, 2008 7:44 PM
"I don't agree with everything Berg and Jones say in these videos"
I have this suspision I won't either. Am I right?
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack
| November 17, 2008 7:47 PM
A song I will always stop to listen too
Angel from Montgomery
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St9RvdtvLeE
Posted by: whskyjack
| November 17, 2008 8:03 PM
Change of topic: the media is slobbering about Obama's team going over all of Bill Clinton's dealings while raising money for his foundation and library. Former President Clinton is now being investigated by the Obama administration. I wonder if George W Bush will be under that same scrutiny.
Posted by: Patsi
| November 17, 2008 8:08 PM
Busted
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7ZjYbP6X8Y
Posted by: whskyjack
| November 17, 2008 8:09 PM
Hello everyone. Are we still talking about Sarah Palin?
Posted by: Divalicias
| November 17, 2008 8:13 PM
Hello everyone. Are we still talking about Sarah Palin?
Posted by: Divalicias
| November 17, 2008 8:15 PM
"Gee Patsi being such an ardent Palin supporter I'd think you'd appreciate the value of a well done vetting!
haha"
You are so very cute. Stupid. But oh so cutsie.
Posted by: Patsi
| November 17, 2008 8:17 PM
Cute, but stupid? Sounds like Sarah Palin. LOL!
Posted by: Corey
| November 17, 2008 8:20 PM
"My gut tells me that both Palin and Obama got simi;lar help"
"Actually, Jack, I was thinking of the help he got from the media's preferential treatment (you could hardly say they were nice to Palin), the party, and the financial contributions, not to mention the mentors and backers he must have had working with him for years."
ps
And I do think Palin helped McCain more than hurt him.
5 Myths About an Election of Mythic Proportions
#5 "For skittish conservatives looking for more evidence that McCain understood their needs and concerns, Palin did the trick. It's hard to imagine conservatives rallying to McCain -- even to the relatively limited extent that they did -- without Palin on the ticket. And without the base, McCain's loss could have been far worse."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/13/AR2008111303287.html
Posted by: chloe
| November 17, 2008 8:22 PM
Meshiach (messiah) means annointed. It does not mean messenger, savior, son of God, or God. Annointing was part of the coronation ceremony of both high priests and kings. There are about 9 messiahs (I don't have time to count right now) mentioned in the Bible. So, talking about THE messiah is as ridiculous as talking about THE Philadelphia Philly or THE founding father.
Posted by: xrepublican
| November 17, 2008 8:23 PM
Lard -- I had the pleasure of interviewing Dr. Spock for my college newspaper decades ago. I met up with him at a clean energy rally on the Mall in Washington DC. We stood at the fence separating the backstage area from the VIP area. I told him that my mother raised me according to his books. He said. "I am profoundly sorry. I know much better now than I knew then." He introduced me to his wife, Mary, who he identified as a "fiery feminist." Then beckoned me to walk with him to the VIP tent where he introduced me to Pete Seeger, Holly Near, Bonnie Raitt, and Wavy Gravy from The Farm. He treated me like I was the VIP, and spend a lot of time answering all my questions and telling me all about his wishes and dreams for the world. Definitely a major moment in my young life.
Posted by: Divalicias
| November 17, 2008 8:23 PM
Posted by: Patsi | November 17, 2008 8:08 PM :
"Change of topic: the media is slobbering about Obama's team going over all of Bill Clinton's dealings while raising money for his foundation and library. Former President Clinton is now being investigated by the Obama administration. I wonder if George W Bush will be under that same scrutiny."
Damn, I hope so. I only hope that they aren't considering Laura for SoS. :>D
Posted by: xrepublican
| November 17, 2008 8:26 PM
One of my top 10:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIyivjVpMDs
Posted by: Corey
| November 17, 2008 8:28 PM
XR--smoke this
As i said before-----David the founder of the first and largest jewish empire claimed ( claimed is the key word -ok) to be in divine partnership with the jewish god jahweh....the people called david messiah (Hebrew Mashia) a term wich ghey also applied to priests, shields davids predecessor saul, and davids son solomon...So messiah originally meant any person o hing possessing great holiness and sacred power.
i wrote this before,,
Posted by: SolarCrete
| November 17, 2008 8:38 PM
Alaska leaned toward muckain before he picked Palin. She brought Alaska in at a hefty 38 - 60%
It's not her fault that Alaska is a political pipsqueak.
If she'd been from OH, FL or CA, she might have made some really big noise, and been able to raise a huge pile of bucks for that final campaign smear. Fortunately for Dems, muckain chose to pick a running mate from Alaska, where sled dogs outnumber humans. Thanks, john.
Posted by: xrepublican
| November 17, 2008 8:47 PM
SolarCrete,
I still agree.
Posted by: xrepublican
| November 17, 2008 8:48 PM
Patsi -- I was at an amazing gathering of 100 political women yesterday in McLean, VA. The gathering was for the newly-launched "Farm Team" a group that is geared to recruit, train, and support women for political leadership in Virginia. Virginia has one of the lowest numbers for women office holders in the 50 states. Anyway, Ann Lewis was there telling us that Sarah Palin's candidacy has forever removed the ability of conservative men from saying that women who are also mothering young children shouldn't be office holders and should stay home with their children. Lewis also said, "It's not about getting Congress to *dress* like women -- we want to elect people to Congress who *think* like women."
Another interesting point of discussion was there are only six state delegate seats needed to flip the state house to the DEMs in time for redistricting. Six of the districts currently held by some of the most odious of the GOP went strongly for Obama and the DEMs. This includes the district currently held by state GOP Chair Jeff Frederick who compared Barrack Obama to Osama bin Laden during the campaign and refused to take down his words, even when he was denounced by fellow GOPs.
Posted by: Divalicias
| November 17, 2008 8:48 PM
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/weekend-roundup.html#comment-174359
xr
She is the "junior" senator from New York. There are a lot of bodies between her and a major management role in the Senate. Ted Kennedy has health care locked up and that is her major focus. She has already stated that she wasn't interested in the Supremes. Biden has said he wants to concentrate on the domestic side of issues. That leaves SOS as a major high profile, activist, and power position. It is second only to the President. As long as she is a good soldier on the Obama team, it would be almost ready made for her talents.
Posted by: Jamie
| November 17, 2008 8:49 PM
SolarCrete,
The one quibble I have with what you just wrote is that the empire you write of was smaller than New Jersey when the tide is in.
Posted by: xrepublican
| November 17, 2008 8:52 PM
Wow. Ana Marie Cox looks like a grown up with her new hair cut.
Posted by: Divalicias
| November 17, 2008 8:57 PM
XR
not to god and his chosen people,,,remember that david was a guerrilla fighter first then a king---his empire only lasted about 550 yrs?,,some think the he was the original terrorist --lived just like bin laden live now --in caves---and runs his campaigns from there?? that is why they invaded other countries,,in order to increase the size of theirs-----such a small matter to disagree with me on---the frigin size of his empire?
Posted by: SolarCrete
| November 17, 2008 9:03 PM
Arianna Huffington hosting the Rachel Maddow show? Couldn't we have had Hillary Rosen instead?
Posted by: Divalicias
| November 17, 2008 9:05 PM
"Anyway, Ann Lewis was there telling us that Sarah Palin's candidacy has forever removed the ability of conservative men from saying that women who are also mothering young children shouldn't be office holders and should stay home with their children."
Yes. And the surrounding ugliness has energized some Republican women like I have not seen since the mid-70s.
Posted by: Patsi
| November 17, 2008 9:09 PM
"Couldn't we have had Hillary Rosen instead? "
Could not agree more.
Posted by: Patsi
| November 17, 2008 9:10 PM
Im almost through with this messiah stuff ---but i see that it is going to take a little more to get to the serets of jesus---them r neat stuff----u won't believe it but he------oh just wait ha
Posted by: SolarCrete
| November 17, 2008 9:11 PM
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/weekend-roundup.html#comment-174404
there was a lot of talk when Janine turned up pregnant and unmarried that the father of her daughter was Steven Jones whose father Jerry owns the Dallas Cowboys. I don't know if that was ever proved to be true but according to the daughter's last name that Steven may in fact be the father.
Posted by: Torpedo.Vindecator
| November 17, 2008 9:19 PM
Anon -- just looking at the "closer view" of moonlight at the ancient kiva site....unbelievable!!!!!
Posted by: Patsi
| November 17, 2008 9:20 PM
XR --- you seem to find something wrong with all that i write-----see if u can find something wrong with this piece of info about god...
A nursery school teacher was observing her classroom of children while they were drawing. She would occasionally walk around to see each child's work.
As she got to little Sarah who was working diligently, she asked what the drawing was. Sarah replied, 'I'm drawing God.' The teacher paused and said, 'But no one knows what God looks like.'
Sarah replied, 'They will in a minute'
Posted by: SolarCrete
| November 17, 2008 9:27 PM
Jamie,
Ya. I suppose the studious life on the SCOTUS would be a crashing bore the excitement of the campaign trail. I know that I'd need a permanent coffee IV, and I didn't even run for soil and water district commission.
There is nothing that she could not do, and do well. However, it would be a sad thing to have her serve in any subordinate position unless she absolutely loves the work.
Here's my thinking: The health Senator has his own health problems. If Senator Clinton can successfully push a real health care program through Congress ("named for the late, great, Senator from Massachusetts who was ever the strong advocate for...."), our grateful nation will respond to her call when the time is right. They probably will anyway.
Hubert Humphrey and Tom Daschle were a junior Senators, too. Senator Clinton rightly commands tremendous respect.
Posted by: xrepublican
| November 17, 2008 9:32 PM
"If Senator Clinton can successfully push a real health care program through Congress "
X -- please keep up -- Kennedy and Dodd have already told Hillary Clinton she gets no say in the health care program.
Posted by: Patsi
| November 17, 2008 9:35 PM
OMG -- I am flipping channels and all of a sudden Dick Morris is blaming the economy on Obama....
Posted by: Patsi
| November 17, 2008 9:37 PM
SolarCrete,
If I say that I don't find something wrong with everything you write, will you please not accuse me of arguing with you again.
Yes, David was a guerilla fighter. A freedom fighter, and a committer of atrocities, during an era when all war leaders committed atrocities.
You are not up against me, honest. You are up against folks who think that the Bible is about Good people being Right. In fact it is about normal people who are struggling, with great difficulty, to become better people.
Posted by: xrepublican
| November 17, 2008 9:44 PM
xr
no i want u to explain what do not agree with,,,but don't quibble of the size of an empire-----or tell me im ridicules ,,if it is important to the conversation yes by all means---if i get a name wrong,or a date that is important to the general over all scope of a particular topic,,,keep it to your self,,,,,,,if it is on another subject other than this one---fire away,,,there is too much out there now to go over every fine point (past)---ok?
Posted by: SolarCrete
| November 17, 2008 9:54 PM
"I agree with those who are puzzled over Craig's complaint of a swear all the while seeming to tolerate posts that are much more offensive to most of us..... -- posted by RebelliousRenee"
i didn't limit my concerns to just swear words, RR, here's what i also said:
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/obamas-leaky-transition.html#comment-173721
Posted by: Craig Crawford
| November 17, 2008 9:59 PM
xr---not important to the topic at hand---that should read
Posted by: SolarCrete
| November 17, 2008 10:07 PM
Patsi'
You convinced me. I would avoid doing anything to put Teddy in a snit before he leaves. She probably hasn't long to wait. I'd be kind and open the door for him.
However, in her place, I'd avoid boxing w/Dodd.
Posted by: xrepublican
| November 17, 2008 10:10 PM
Nice opinon piece on race:
Woods-Obama parallel includes some pitfalls
Racial breakthroughs don't always bring progress.
"it's not that far-fetched to argue that Tiger Woods' popularity helped pave the way for Barack Obama's smashing victory."
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/opinion/20081117_Woods-Obama_parallel_includes_some_pitfalls.html
Posted by: Rezdog
| November 17, 2008 10:20 PM
SolarCrete,
You are not ridiculous. Nope.
When I took an ancient history overview from the late (and once famous) Romanologist Tom Jones, PhD, he stressed the small size of David's realm.
Students who had Sunday School diplomas that made them experts in ancient history and geography, had the guts to stand up and argue that David's was a Major World Empire. Apparently, kindly old Miss Tuohy, or whoever, had said so. And who was this Dumb old world renowned Romanologist to disagree ? Anywhat, I was amazed at the number of students who thought that a sphere of influence within a line from Akko to Damascus to Beersheba to Gaza was a Major World Empire. 20,000 sq miles ? Maybe that big. So, when you used the word empire, I wanted to make sure that no one was thinking of it the way Sunday School experts do.
Posted by: xrepublican
| November 17, 2008 10:31 PM
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/weekend-roundup.html#comment-174451
XR
The State Department is huge with a lot of duties and a lot of power. The Secretary's main function is to keep the world from blowing up while keeping the President advised of what they are doing. When run well it is a great partnership.
When done poorly as it has been for the last eight years, it can be a disaster.
Madeleine Albright the first woman SoS under Prez Clinton is still a close friend, so you bring in even more expertise.
Right now the world is a God awful mess. It looks to me as if Obama is trying to assemble as brilliant a group as he can find no matter who they are or know. If he can herd the cats, it should be impressive to watch.
Posted by: Jamie
| November 17, 2008 10:34 PM
Why, do some of you people still find it necessary to keep bashing Gov. Palin? And, I hope HRC, turns Obama down. He is only doing this, because he figures, if he gives her a position, she won't try and run against him in 2012.
Posted by: Lampe | November 17, 2008 10:42 PM
Jamie,
Heaven prevent anyone from thinking that I am a fan of rice, but howinell could anyone work the job, as you describe it, in an administration where the president channels messages from Jesus, and the government is run by a boozed up VP, who reads the SoS's mail before she gets it, is an insufferable martinet, and who is a fan of Mussolini, to boot ?
Since drunkendickcheney shot his pal, and his familiar was convicted of lying to the FBI, together causing cheney's downfall, rice has made real progress. Instead of being follicle deep in the elephant dudu, we are now only lip deep.
Sec'y of State Clinton could sleep through 8 years and still come out looking like a healer and miracle worker when compared to our republican foreign policy catastrophe and long international nightmare under babybush.
Posted by: xrepublican
| November 17, 2008 11:04 PM
Mind readers without a licenses.
Posted by: xrepublican
| November 17, 2008 11:08 PM
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/weekend-roundup.html#comment-174465
Wonderful way to talk about the only successful Dem.President since FDR!! Pres.Bill Clinton muzzled,never....
Posted by: tonyb39
| November 17, 2008 11:10 PM
Tony--hello hope all is good?
Posted by: SolarCrete
| November 17, 2008 11:16 PM
WiskeyJ -
Well we agree on music.
To the Gay Rights Debating Club -
100 top retired military have signed a letter coming out against "Don't ask don't tell."
To the Bible discussion forum -
Nova tomorrow night :
"NOVA: The Bible's Buried Secrets"
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/bible/
Patsi -
When you're in the desert at night, and a large group coyotes come near, they sound like women laughing, and talking when the sound first comes to your ear.
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 11:18 PM
Hey Solar
All is good with me! Hope all is good with you and your family? I have been enjoying your posts on religion and its history and I have learned much.I am amazed at your knowledge on the subject.I have always stayed away from organized religion since I started thinking for myself.Thanks keep up the good posts,oh and the back and forth with xr,superb!! Hey do me a favor and send 90's back down to Florida...HA HA Only 74 today.I need some heat....
Posted by: tonyb39
| November 17, 2008 11:25 PM
Funny we completely ignored "Joe the Plumber's" new book. Due Dec. 1st, should be a real page turner.
More layoffs at Focus on the Family
UPDATE: Focus on the Family announced this afternoon that 202 jobs will be cut companywide — more than 20 percent of its workforce. Initial reports bring the total number of remaining employees to around 950.
Focus on the Family is poised to announce major layoffs to its Colorado Springs-based ministry and media empire today. The cutbacks come just weeks after the group pumped more than half a million dollars into the successful effort to pass a gay-marriage ban in California.
http://coloradoindependent.com/15287/after-pumping-money-into-prop-8-focus-on-the-family-announcing-layoffs
--------------------------------------
Should we bail-out James Dobson , or let the free market work ?
Posted by: Anon | November 17, 2008 11:30 PM
SolarCrete,
Anyway, while folks are on the topic of motives, that was what motivated me to chime in about David's acreage. It had nothing to do with you and everything to do with still being annoyed, after nearly 45 years, about some dopey college students who interrupted a lecturer to whom I loved listening.
Regarding that little girl's picture of God, when I was a lad, in a really racist sexist era, someof us were having a conversation about humans creating God, or at least envisioning God in our own image.
One guy told the story of a Black girl down South, who got a such a terrible fever that everyone thought she was going to die. In fact, at one point they thought she did, and called the preacher over, but then they came around. The preacher said, "We thought you were dead." The little girl replied, "I guess I was, 'cause I went to heaven." "You did ? Did You see God ?" "Yes, Reverend Brown, it was wonderful. I saw God !"
"What did God look like ?" "Well, She was beautiful, and She was Black."
Posted by: xrepublican
| November 17, 2008 11:31 PM
Keyes Sues for Birth Certificate
"Presidential candidate Alan Keyes, vice-presidential candidate Wiley S. Drake, and the Chairman of the American Independent Party, Markham Robinson, have filed suit in California Superior Court in Sacramento seeking to bar Secretary of State Debra Bowen from certifying to Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger the names of Electors, and from transmitting to each presidential Elector a Certificate of Election, until documentary proof is produced and verified showing that Senator Obama is a “natural born” citizen of the United States, and does not hold citizenship of Indonesia, Kenya or Great Britain.
In addition, they have asked that the court issue a peremptory writ barring Senator Obama’s California Electors from signing the Certificate of Vote until such documentary proof is produced and verified."
http://savagepolitics.com/keyes-sues-for-birth-certificate
Posted by: GORDO | November 17, 2008 11:33 PM
Should read "then she came around." I need a new editor.
Posted by: xrepublican
| November 17, 2008 11:35 PM
Anon---pbs has an hour long of 2o hours that i have taped---including who wrote the bible,,, the most interesting are the dead sea scrolls----the exodus of moses---not at all what has been thought all this time is the truth---there is proof of the carriages ,remains found of stables that housed them,,,but they did not at the red sea----they crossed at a river that has a very similar name (will come to me) but all is very interesting,,,also the true facts about Ramses thanks
Posted by: SolarCrete
| November 17, 2008 11:36 PM
Peremptory writ. That dog don't hunt.
Posted by: xrepublican
| November 17, 2008 11:38 PM
SolarCrete,
I wonder if you go down that stream if you can find remains of an Egyptian army.
King John of Robin Hood fame was nearly drowned at King's Lynn when a river bore swamped his wagon train. The original crown jewels and John's portable chapel were washed away and lost forever.
Posted by: xrepublican
| November 17, 2008 11:44 PM
xr---i will find were i put that info---yes there are remains of an egyptian army---they found were the soldiers fed and housed the horses that were used for chasing moses---moses is not all that people think he is ---another great myth---night
Posted by: SolarCrete
| November 17, 2008 11:52 PM
Keyes Sues for Birth Certificate
Dismissed, no standing! Coming soon!
Posted by: J Whopner | November 18, 2008 12:29 AM
bethyboo, thanks for the comment.
Sometimes it is creepy here, isn't it? ;-)
Hey Sheila!
tt
Posted by: tiptoe
| November 18, 2008 12:37 AM
Just heard on a netcast -- 16 more lawsuits are to be filed. Just release the BCs and related documents.
Posted by: GORDO | November 18, 2008 12:46 AM
Long post alert - not as bad as some, tho!
RR - that's great you bought Eco's two books! The Name of the Rose is a straight forward novel, but the other is very different and I never finished it. When I read books like Foucault's Pendulum, I want to do it in a a classroom setting or with people I can discuss it with. There's so much to make out of it that I can't keep it all in, I guess. Maybe I'll give it another shot.
Solar and xr - you just keep putting out info that boggles my mind. If you ever do anything so mundane as read fiction, have you read anything of Steven Saylor's series?
The link to The Promised Land is much appreciated - that will take care of a number of Christmas presents.
Also, the Dick Cavett column was funny - I haven't read him for such a long time, I didn't remember him as being so condemnatory, tho.
As for Sarah Palin, I didn't seem to hear the criticisms of her that were because she's a woman - my concerns re her were her thought processes and how they didn't go far enough. I do think she helped the repub ticket because, let's face it, none of the men were going to brighten anything. Romney - groan! all they would have done is bored people to death. She added some life at least.
As to her religion, any politician who wants my vote has to state openly and OFTEN, he/she believes 100% in separation of church and state. Even then, said politican might not get my vote. Just because her church hasn't figured in her political career , that means nothing. That could change in an instant.
Jack - My dad hated Ashcroft and Danforth both. When Ashcroft was up for AG, I remember seeing a committee hearing, inc Patrick Keahy, where a prof emeritus of Northwestern or Univ of Chicago (??) testified against Ashcroft on the religion issue, saying that in Missouri in the ag's office, Ashcroft had worked to get fire saftey regulations reduced for parochial schools. I never heard anything re how he kept his religion out of his politics - just saying.
Songs - I had a very different reaction to the reqest for Top Ten Songs, but when I read your lists, I had to agree with most. Understand, I know nothing about Pink Floyd or Men At Work or Led Zeppelin, and didn't recognize a lot of the songs you guys named.
I was thinking of songs I just had to sing along with, and the first one that came to mind was the 1812
Overture, especially the end. The next one was
Waltz across Texas with You by Daniel O'Donnell.
Bohemian Rhapsody and a couple of Janis Joplin's, too.
Then I realized I hadn't mentioned the Intermezzo
from Cavaliera Rusticana. The Ride of the Valkyries is great fun to sing with, especially the hooting part.
The Anvil Chorus and the Grand March from Aida - that was played every year for the entrance of the debs at the Veiled Prophet Ball. Au Fond du Temple! oy vey!
That one makes my heart and breath just fly, and my sisters want to hit me cuz I can't NOT try to sing it.
But the all time favorite, I think, is the Romance of the
Gadfly, the theme to Reilly:Ace of Spies. I would like to suggest it as my candidate for another list - the most
sensual and erotic music.
SURELY, this crowd can come up with some other suggestions, always bearing in mind that this is public more or less.
Posted by: bethyboo
| November 18, 2008 1:18 AM
I meant, not as bad as some of MY OWN long posts - not those of anyone else.
Posted by: bethyboo
| November 18, 2008 1:19 AM
Thanks for the Dick Cavett link!
: - )
tt
Posted by: tiptoe
| November 18, 2008 2:06 AM
When I was a tyke, I had a tiny record player and 2 little yellow records.
1. Hi Ho, from Disney's SN and the 7 Ds
2. Mozart's Turkish March
The latter has been my all time favorite for nearly 60 years.
Posted by: xrepublican
| November 18, 2008 2:46 AM
Soon : 16 more suits tossed out for baseless flim-flammery. The courts ought to fine these frauds for wasting public money.
Keyes of MD sues in CA ? Wadda Kallikak.
Posted by: xrepublican
| November 18, 2008 2:57 AM
i don't agree with much of palin's politics ' but she had one thing right '' energy independence should be
america's number one priority'' if we had that 700billion
we sent over seas this year circulating in our economy
things would look a whole lot less bleak right now.
Posted by: mqw | November 18, 2008 3:20 AM
xrepublican-----------------
"Keyes of MD sues in CA ?"
You don't understand anything about this -- your question is proof. Try learning something about CA history.
Orly Taitz was on a netcast for 1 1/2 hours discussing the CA lawsuit.
Posted by: GORDO | November 18, 2008 3:39 AM
hmmm...........coffee machine's empty and stale doughnuts.......who's in charge of this fiasco?
Posted by: sturgeone | November 18, 2008 4:20 AM
the democrats will soon be in charge of everything '
whatever are they going to do when they can't blame
bush and the republicans . they will soon find out
it's not as easy to be at the helm and take responsibility
as it is to point fingers and criticize
Posted by: mqw | November 18, 2008 4:37 AM
I'll try again:
Hold on, Im Coming.........sam and dave
midnight hour..............wilson pickett
Whole lotta love............Fred Zeppelin
Vesti la giubba...........leoncavallo
Ave Maria...............schubert
Tell me what'd I say............ray charles
From a Distance................Bette Midler
Sing Sing Sing............Benny Goodman
If he walked into my life............Edie Gorme'
Abraham, Martin, and John...............Dick Feller (author)
Hallelujah..................leonard cohen
witchcraft............Frank sinatra
that old black magic............keely smith and louis prima
Maybelline...........chuck berry
Bye bye love............everly brothers
the boxer...........simon and garf....
Posted by: sturgeone | November 18, 2008 4:47 AM
mqw......compare and contrast: the economy in general and the federal debt level at the end of Clinton and at the end of Bush.........We'll just have to go with the HOPE, eh? Looks SO much better than the last 8 years of certitude, rectitude, and general theivery in the administration of the oil kings........
Posted by: sturgeone | November 18, 2008 4:51 AM
yes we can always hope
the democtics have been in charge of the congress
for two years' they have gotton a free pass on that
i would say show me what you've done
don't tell what your going to' lets see some results
before the celebrations
Posted by: mqw | November 18, 2008 4:58 AM
the democrats in congress have been stymied from doing ANYthing by the fact that the numbers are 50 + Lieberman? What exactly are they supposed to be able to do with a non-filibuster proof majority?
Answer: against republican dinosaur mentalities cleaving to one another in rabid support of a criminally oil-soaked administration........Nothing.
But stand by......there's going to be some action after January, eh wot?
Posted by: sturgeone | November 18, 2008 5:08 AM
and as far as "dont tell me what you've done" is concerned........what the GOP "has done" for the last 8 years, in spite of the almost rabidly attempted secrecy, is really out there for all to see, regardless of the lies, obfuscations, and half truths they have attempted to foist on the american public.........
such as: oh, those wascally democrats have been in charge for 2 whole years and what have they done?
Posted by: sturgeone | November 18, 2008 5:15 AM
i'm cautiously optimistic'' just skeptical of promises
got my hand on my wallet' i'm sure someone will be
reaching for it soon
Posted by: mqw | November 18, 2008 5:16 AM
oops.....mis quoted......that should read "as far as 'show me what you've done' " and "dont tell me what you're going to do".
Posted by: sturgeone | November 18, 2008 5:17 AM
got my hand on my wallet' i'm sure someone will be
reaching for it soon
--mqw
have you been in a cave the last 8 years? were there a lot of things "trickling down" into your wallet lately?
ha ha ha ha, jeebus, man......how on earth could anything be worse than the last 8 years........how much do we owe china, by the way? think that'll ever hit your wallet?
Posted by: sturgeone | November 18, 2008 5:21 AM
It looks as if there have been billions and billions siphoned away from the "war effort" by neo-con cronyists Halliburton, KBR, Bechtel, Blackwater, etc etc...why dont you ask them to help you out with your wallet.......Im sure they'd be happy to share.......
Posted by: sturgeone | November 18, 2008 5:36 AM
sturg
i was in no way shape or form trying to defend bush
or the republicans' just saying that the democrats
are just as capable of screwing up ''just in different ways
Posted by: mqw | November 18, 2008 5:44 AM
I can dig it.......I guess it is that I happen to happily anticipate those "just in different ways" units.......I know, a politician is a politician and all that up in there, but a democrat is not a republican................so to speak
Posted by: sturgeone | November 18, 2008 6:01 AM
".....Obama's team going over all of Bill Clinton's dealings while raising money for his foundation and library."
must be hunting for that precious donor list they wanted during the campaign and couldn't get.
another reason some senators might like to see hrc gone from senate is that they backed down on promises made to her when she was expected to win (iow doing a richardson) or they owed her big time for past campaigning efforts she did on their behalf but subsequently backed obama. your word is supposed to be your bond in the senate and now they're seen as reneging on theirs. a gentlemen's club? hah!
Posted by: patd | November 18, 2008 6:28 AM
hell hath no fury like a senator scorned
Posted by: patd | November 18, 2008 6:38 AM
"another reason some senators might like to see hrc gone from senate is that they backed down on promises made to her when she was expected to win (iow doing a richardson) or they owed her big time for past campaigning efforts she did on their behalf but subsequently backed obama. your word is supposed to be your bond in the senate and now they're seen as reneging on theirs. a gentlemen's club? hah!"
Well said pat! And it makes perfect sense. I love your "hell hath no fury like a senator scorned". I know from personal experience that really is true of women (at least this one) :)
Posted by: chloe
| November 18, 2008 7:39 AM
What about the gentleman's club (the good old boys club is what I call it) Is there no such thing, and that's just paranoia too? Allow us our venting. It's built up for many years and it needs to be released. I'm sure you have your share of frustrations too.
Posted by: chloe
| November 18, 2008 8:31 AM
Obama Should Look to FDR Not Lincoln
"
In the last week, I've spoken with a gaggle of experts, some of them in finance, some in real estate and some in just plain investments. I've interviewed media magnates, both foreign and domestic, an investment banker, a manufacturer, and a former banker. This is what I have to report: Economically, we're in a recession. Psychologically, we're in a depression. The reason: None of these experts knows what to do.
.....what he might not appreciate is that among his many gifts, the one that might matter most is how close he can come to Rooseveltian enthusiasm, that optimism, that capacity for empathy that made so many ordinary people love this rich man and stick with him. Lincoln, a sometimes melancholy and somber man, belongs, as Edwin M. Stanton said, "to the ages." Roosevelt belongs to ours."
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/11/obama_should_look_to_fdr.html
Posted by: chloe
| November 18, 2008 8:47 AM
"I don't see why you're not doing handstands at the thought of her being SOS."
I would love to see Clinton as as Secretary of State. Love it. But it hasn't happened yet. I have nothing but good wishes for Obama, and high hopes.
Not all the things we discuss are only political.
Posted by: chloe
| November 18, 2008 8:50 AM
New Thread
Posted by: chloe
| November 18, 2008 9:03 AM
"I think you Clinton folk make a mistake in ascribing some "anointed status" to Hillary in terms to her relationships in the Senate."
It's not that. We just like her and think she's good for the country. And yes, we think she is deserving. She got a huge amount of votes and that should stand for something. She didn't win the prize, Obama did. But that doesn't stop us for want representation by her too.
Posted by: chloe
| November 18, 2008 9:05 AM
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