Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

looking good, craig. new haircut?

interesting look into the ko psyche with his comments re not understanding how senate colleagues of jl can disagree with him politically and still like him or see him as a good person.

Patd, patsi, jamie, flatus....
Let me know the pearls of wisdom from criag - as when I saw it was not just a KO lead ad, that it was KO that I would have to listen to... ahhh I do not waste my time with this failed pretend Entertainer. when does he come off the air?

the one smart thing is he does bring Craig on...
Craig - do you have to wash up and spray yourself down after being near KOd

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/politics/sns-ap-obama-aunt,0,1622521.story

Close Family

"Craig - do you have to wash up and spray yourself down after being near KOd"

Ping, Even though I can't stand Olbermann any more, don't know if that's fair to Craig. I think he likes Olbermann. He called him a gentleman the other day (after missing his spot on the show). But regardless of how he feels about him, it's just a job to Craig. What's he supposed to do.

I cannot BELIEVE this message I got from what is NOW an ex-friend of mine. This is what she wrote after I sent a card of hurrah for Barack winning.

"Your love for Obama is understandable - a gay man lovin' on another fag. But there is no need to try and convince me of your love, I believe you. Light the ovens, line the jews and fags up - change is a comin' Go Obama.

Good luck."

I am SHOCKED!

Chloe - Good Point - But I only see what comes off the tube of KO, - or used to - Maybe he is a gentleman and all of the TV stuff is to crank people up and he really has more depth then just playing a role. If that is the case it plays it really well like that of Carol OConner on as a modern day Archie Bunker. A good Entertainer with no Journalistic value

Thanks for the message....

Ping, I will not watch KO until he publicly apologizes to Mrs Clinton for his personalized attacks against her. Likewise, I won't watch Tweets.

She, is more forgiving than I.

I'm not critical about Craig's participation on any show--he has to earn a living and, so far as I know, he is intellectually honest wherever he goes. But, your advice about bathing before _and_ after is solid.

That would be Carroll O'Connor

I'm shocked as well, Tom. As I was shocked when a liberal male (former) friend of mine emailed me a photoshopped picture of Palin's daughter, made to look like a hooker. I don't know what's wrong with people.

Where has all this complete ugliness come from?

Is your friend mad at Obama for not supporting gays in the Prop 8 debacle?

I "get" questioning him. I'll be watching to see how much "change" we get.

But that email you received is sick.

I can't get any sound on the video -- so I'm no help...

ping (or is it pong today), too bad you didn't stay with the video. one of the highlights was craig's admitted and understandable bias in the chambliss race due to said candidate's dastardly treatment of max cleland, the well-respected hero and school mate of our gracious host.

Patsi, I would just as soon vote for Lucifer as Chambliss.

Ditto, Flatus -- Chambliss is simply awful.

Fun look at some Presidential pets, including Benjamin Harrison's son's pet goat.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-presidential_pets-pg,0,621437.photogallery

Flatus comment speaks volumes.

Max was a school mate - must be Stetson.. But Max is much older...

Good morning all, Haven't had time to read all posts, so if this has already been posted I apologize.
http://change.gov/americaserves/

I will not be requiring my children to be involved. We already give back to the community in our own manner.

Flatus, hurrah! We agree on something again !!!

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/an-insidery-change-agent.html#comment-170480

From yesterday's thread:

GAKaren - I agree that Obama should pick the people with the best qualifications -- what I question is why does it seem that the the so-called"best qualified" are almost always white males?

BTW -- I am an active Democrat who supported and worked for Obama's election, not a Republican/PUMA throwing stones.

~Alicia

oldsahag - now this is the good stuff from Obama - hope he can get more out there doing more for our neighbors. He has the skill to do it......
The Ultimate Community Organizer

True Americans are good at Heart

"If that is the case it plays it really well like that of Carol OConner on as a modern day Archie Bunker. A good Entertainer with no Journalistic value"

A good point Ping, no Journalistic value (except when Craigs on. :))

I like that you compared it to Archie Bunker. I used to love laughing at that show (back in the old days). Thanks for bringing it up. :)

Want to do something in your area...

You should not wait !

Do it with a cheerful heart not because it is a government program or any incentive.

Click on this link - go to Locations -
Healthy, Fun and makes a difference.

http://www.endhunger.org/

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/unsettled-senate-business.html#comment-170914

EuroTom -- Why did your ex-friend say that? What causes people to have such anger? ~Alicia

"EuroTom -- Why did your ex-friend say that? What causes people to have such anger? ~Alicia"

Alicia, if the individual was a real friend in the past, there may have been something in ET's communication that triggered that most unfortunate response. Time for some transactional analysis.

Andy Kelly at Causes put out an email offering words of hope about the work to come re Prop 8. The perspective that 10% fewer voters approved of the ban on gay marriage than the previous Proposition 22 in 2000 is some encouragement -- and a measure of the work still to be done:

---- I could not help but think how far we have come- how far forward we have moved as a state. In 2000, Proposition 22 passed with nearly 62 percent support, and in 2008, Proposition 8 received 52 percent of the vote. Within just eight years support for banning same-sex marriage has fallen nearly 10 percent in California. In fact, more Californians have already voted against Proposition 8 than ever voted for Proposition 22. ------

ping, stetson

Diva, perhaps it needs a real marketing effort in educating people what marriage means to a gay couple and how that meaning coincides with that of the larger population.

Stetson in St Pete? What class?

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/unsettled-senate-business.html#comment-170926

Sea, I'm hoping there's some reaction to your link on Trailmix. I'm interested in others opinions of it. Thanks.

Ping, reg. your link, I'm shocked they can feed someone for a year (at least their fruit and vegetable portions) for $50. Must be some real organization there.

Ping...I guess my misgivings about the game were justified. What a bummer.

ET...how could someone capable of writing such a note have hidden that side of themselves for so long that you considered them a friend? Was it just a casual acquaintance? Someone from childhood?

Just to clarify so we don't age our host more than is necessary. Craig said he and Max Cleland both graduated from Stetson. He didn't say they were both there at the same time. They're both alums, but most likely neither schoolmates nor classmates.

flatus, deland

EdVB, I was not thinking about the DeLand campus, bu the law school in St Pete where they could have attended at the same time.

ed, craig might have been a child prodigy/genius. and remember that dorian grey picture that was mentioned in a previous thread.

Chloe - the gifts of hands - Today my daughter is gleaning citrus with her youth group....

LLIb... Better to lose this one then the playoffs. But Doc Philips looked really good, they got speed and the best QB i have seen... Also they where pumped up to take out #1...

GO Hatters -- Looks like he grad from the main campus in Delightful Deland.. GO HATTERS... My fun years

bu = but
New Speak thrives.

"perhaps it needs a real marketing effort in educating people what marriage means to a gay couple and how that meaning coincides with that of the larger population."

Thank you for saying that Flatus.
That's what I thought the other day when everyone was so upset after the election. It's more about educating the people than anything else.

It's easy for people to understand cruelty to animals (I only mention this because of the argument about comparing the two, that we had the other day), but people aren't aware of the pain that is cause by the lack of equality for everyone.

All this awareness of animal mistreatment only happened after a massive drive to educate people in the last ten to twenty years. Now we have to do the same, education people about equality, gay rights, and why marriage should be an available option to everyone.

For some people, they've been so ill informed and are so unaware of the reality of their misunderstanding, that educating them is the only way to change things.

Edvb - Good Point -- Max has 14 years on Craigster

ET--

Was your friend the author of the E-mail or just forwarding it to let you know what kind of ugliness is going around?

Ping Pong- Scary that, isn't it?

Good morning Chloe! Sorry haven't finished the shopping cart. Was doing html work yesterday and screw up in places, kind of funny , one can see odd strings of letters in a few random places. Will have it working soon. Will repost that link with more info.
Direct from Obama's new site under America Serves
"Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by setting a goal that all middle school and high school students do 50 hours of community service a year"
http://change.gov/americaserves/

Wikipedia says Cleland graduated from Stetson in '64. That makes him even too old to be my schoolmate, let alone Craig's.

Flatus,

You're right about different ages mixing at the upper levels of education. I was just jumping in to make sure those who didn't hear the clip wouldn't misunderstand what Craig had said.

Similarly, even though I said Cleland was too old to be my schoolmate, I should also confess that Max and I did go to different schools together. He graduated from Stetson the same year I got out of high school.

Ed, couple of young pups.

I am citizen, I was raised by citizens and am doing my level best to raise good citizens. My 84 year old father donates artwork to places like Ronald McDonald House and for village fundraisers, I work for Habitat and donate chocolates to many island groups. My children do a number of things: coaching, traveling to participate in protests, being involved in various fundraisers for individuals and organizations. Thank you but we do not need guidance from the Gov. in this area of our busy lives.

Thanks Sea. Keep us informed. :)

flatus, ed, ping... wiki says craig born '56 and grad'd stetson in 1978 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Crawford

sorry to cause confusion. mea culpa, sin of omission.

and stetson law '81

sorry, don't know his shoe size

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/unsettled-senate-business.html#comment-170964

Wow Sea. What a giving family you are. I'm in awe. Not to mention feeling great respect for what all of you are doing.

oldsea, sounds like a variation on bill clinton's volunteers of america

Chloe, thanks but not looking for accolades, just gave an example of my family to point out what many Americans do in the course of a year.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/unsettled-senate-business.html#comment-170968

What's the difference what she pasted. She linked it. You paste what you want and allow others to do the same.

Today on blistersyeahbutchannel

Why some choose Fantasy over Reality

"thanks but not looking for accolades"

But you know I can't keep my mouth shut Sea. :)

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/unsettled-senate-business.html#comment-170964

OSH, Many schools already have programs to involve students in their communities as part of either their educational requirements or extra credit that can be used in their collegiate applications.

I don't see any coercion here as much as opportunity. It used to be that virtually every family had a connection to a service organization such as Elks or Eastern Star. Their children often received scholarships through those organizations.

This strikes me as just another venue for young people to be involved in their communities while gaining credit for their education ... an everybody wins situation particularly for those too impoverished to afford college without massive debt otherwise.

About the ugly email ET got....since he's not here now, and people are asking -- I'm going to make a guess. ET has some lesbian friends who were very much anti-Obama after the primary. My guess is that they were angry over Prop 8, and about Obama's being against gay marriage and that prompted the comments. I have no idea, really, but that's my guess, and why they used the derogatory gay term.

(Of course, Hillary doesn't back gay marriage either, and that pisses me off.)

"I don't see any coercion here as much as opportunity"

I tend to agree with you on this Jamie.
I'm assuming Obama's talking about 'encouraging" children to do community service or to make contributions to their community. In that case, I don't think it would be a requirement, but may be something of a reward system.

Sea, not all families are like yours. Some children are never enlightened to the 'built-in' rewards of giving. This way, if they don't have parents that lead them in that direction, then they'll be exposed to the idea outside the home. It may have a positive effect on our society in general.

Everyone seems just a little out of sorts this morning. I just found a great place to unload any tensions. It's a virtual sandbox

http://thisissand.com/

When you get there, it will look absolutely blank except for a tiny box in the upper left corner. Click on that for instructions and start playing with the sand and all the colors.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/unsettled-senate-business.html#comment-170978

Patsi, I can't help but think Obama and Hillary are more open minded than that in their personal life (if we could read their minds).

I think maybe they're required by their campaigns to take that stance (in order to get votes). Maybe that's where the education that Flatus was talking about will change things. Then it will become more popular for politicians to do the right thing.

Jamie- Yes, there is the college funding plan, which I have stated that I don't have a problem with. I am leery of the other program "by setting a goal that ALL middle school and high school students do 50 hours of community service a year" for a couple of reasons. Firstly, I think students this age are under enormous pressure already, there just isn't enough time in the day for them to pursue their interests, studies and still have leisure and family time. Secondly, I feel the guidance for these activities at this age should come from family, school and one's religious institution not the government.

"Patsi, I can't help but think Obama and Hillary are more open minded than that in their personal life (if we could read their minds)."

Absolutely agree, chloe -- I have no doubt that both hold entirely different personal beliefs.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/unsettled-senate-business.html#comment-170937

Flatus -- Yes -- education and marketing to clarify that people don't "choose" to be gay, but that they are born that way. Also, people need to realize that state sanctioned marriage is not a matter of faith or religious views, but of property.

As Harvey Fierstein said, "If anyone needs to know how staqte-sanctioned marriage is all about contracts and property, just ask someone who's gotten a divorce."

Gays are not asking to be married in people's churches that would not support same-sex marriage. They are simply asking for the same civil protections that straight couples have.

Re Prop 8

A few things occurred that fed the lies being told by the proponents.

1 - There were clips from Newsom used in pro 8 ads that made it sound like gays and lesbians wanted to take over the world.

2 - A teacher got married in SF and her class (primary grade) came to the wedding. The proponents used this to say teachers would be REQUIRED to teach the gay lifestyle (whatever that is.)

The major ads of the proponents were directed at the idea that kids would be indoctrinated.

Is it better then Prop 22 yes. But this time virtually every major Democrat and Democratic organization endorsed the effort and money was not too much of an issue.

It's very difficult to educate against lies.

i believe that most people are against by marriage cos they think it is immoral---1st the gay community needs to point out the record of non violence-, rapes, violence, drugs, show that they are church going, etc etc 2nd fight fire with fire---show where there is immorality in the various churches , lack of morals in the catholic church, and overall like flatus says an organized effort to educate the public,,,,,,science is something that is respected by all but not enough of the common people know how exactly that one comes to be gay,,,the black people that i have talked to think it is a matter of choosing to be gay, they think it goes against what they teach at curches and the bible----i will give it start with-----morals are innate in all animals----an easy example is the wolf packs,,,they show all the traits of shame, etc, some types of birds (i forgot which right now) are cast from the nest cos they eat food that should be shared......and other examples r out there----but the most important to me is real life compairisons of behavioral science---just saying

The whole community service thing can begin with all the young Obama voters who said they were ready to "do the work." We'll know when the bloggers at Kos are talking about the minority soccer teams they are coaching.

KGC is exactly right -- friends of mine in CA said the ads began to be changed so it appeared to be a damned Save the Children campaign.

"It's very difficult to educate against lies."

It takes time.

it takes time yes, but can be done in combination with what is not working now?

Right on Solar.
They have to be educated first to not judge others choices as immoral. That requires the same thing that educating against all prejudice requires. Accepting peoples differences. And to realize ones beliefs are no more than that, just beliefs.

Judging others by your own set of rules is the beginning of all prejudice. Accepting differences and treating all people equally is the goal.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/unsettled-senate-business.html#comment-170982

OSH, 50 hours a year is hardly a major hardship since it is less that an hour a week and in all probability could be done with food service at a homeless shelter or senior facility or tree planting or any number of activities that used to be done by volunteers that cities now hire people to do thus increasing taxes.

As a parent, I encouraged my children to help with fund raising for charities, assisting with clean up campaigns etc. It doesn't hurt children to learn to be part of a community. As long as it is by choice, I think this is a great program.

The whole community service thing can begin with all the young Obama voters who said they were ready to "do the work."

Not just the young ones.

Although I made fun of it - I do think Obama's message -- we are the ones -- is the right one for people to take away.

Gore built up his organization that notion and is doing a great job challenging people to find a solution to climate issues within ten years. I hope people recognize their own role in creating change. To me the biggest promise of the Obama campaign was to change the way we do things. I'm not sure I know what that means to me let alone how it has been defined by the Obama campaign.

But I hope it is the end of the kind of behavior that allows industry to lobby against consumers and win and then try to get government bailouts when their product has to be recalled.

Each of us as a responsibility to be part of the change.

"It's amazing that in a time of national crisis people are bitching about the President-Elect's call to national service"

I've heard a discussion, but I haven't heard any bitching.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/unsettled-senate-business.html#comment-171001

Please continue scrolling. I appreciate it.

"Each of us as a responsibility to be part of the change. "

Agreed, KGC. But I think OSH was simply saying she and her family are already participating mightily.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/unsettled-senate-business.html#comment-170964

Calls to community service are not new -- remember Bush's 1000 Points of Light? Kennedy's "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country?"

OSH -- I applaud your community service and I hope that you don't feel threatened by the call by our national leaders for more people to help their communities.

I think the idea that Obama is promoting now is a little different -- more like a stipend for service in the form of college scholarships. What could be wrong with that?

~Alicia

http://www.cnbc.com/id/27597185

Against the "mandatory portion of the plan"

http://www.examiner.com/x-536-Civil-Liberties-Examiner~y2008m11d7-Obamas-compulsory-service-proposal-becomes-explicit

It is today's news

About the call to national service....Obama mentions retirees. The administration better first figure out whether any of retirement age will be ABLE to retire, if they'll have any homes from which to plan their community service, and any national infrastructure to utilize in the process.

I think national service will be low on the food chain for now.

Patsi

I agree and wasn't suggesting she isn't. I meant each of has to live the life we claim to want for others. If we are really concerned about issues such as climate change, change your own life as well as call for institutional change.

Remember when you were a girl, the organic food store was a hippy dippy place with moth eaten looking produce and today Safeway has its own brand. Consumers have a lot of influence and need to exercise it.

Find some new words:

embittered
PUMA
losers
whine
sour grapes.

hint -- community service does not include dealing dope....

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/unsettled-senate-business.html#comment-170994

Chloe -- What did you mean when you wrote "accepting other's choices..." ? A person's sexual orientation is not a choice like hair color. It's congenital like skin color.

Why would anyone choose to be gay -- to endure the societal oppression, prejudice and biases heaped upon homosexuals?

I want to also end the term "gay lifestyle." The gay couple who live across the street from me and I have the same "lifestyle." We're suburban, worrying about paying bills, keeping our yards and houses neat, making sure the schools are providing quality education, the roads are safe and have less traffic, that we look out for our neighbors and keep our community safe. About the only thing I really differ with them on is NASCAR. I don't care for NASCAR -- they regularly load up their huge RV and go to NASCAR races. I would rather go to a gay bar to dance.

~ Alicia

http://www.examiner.com/x-536-Civil-Liberties-Examiner~y2008m11d7-Obamas-compulsory-service-proposal-becomes-explicit

"accepting other's choices..."

Is getting married a choice? That's what I was talking about.

Fact Check Please apologizes for the poor posting job but stands behind the facts.

Diva,
If you o back and read my post, you'll see that I was talking about all types of prejudice.

I was also responding to Solar, when he said : "i believe that most people are against by marriage cos they think it is immoral-"

Notice the word marriage there. I 'm not sure why you were so quick to jump on me for what i said in my post. Regardless of what you think, I'm entitled to think what i think. Now if you want to put words in my mouth, I guess there's not much I can do about that.

But I REALLY hate have to defend myself regarding every thing I say here, and you are a good example of what I'm talking about. You are so quick to jump on me and to assume the worst about me, and then you go on to talk about kindness and fairness to others. Be more consistent.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/unsettled-senate-business.html#comment-171010

Patsi -- Plenty of well-to-do retirees in my county living in a "55 or Better" community. Except they're not called "retirees" they're called "active adults." LOL. Anyway they do an awful lot of community service around here. Seems to be something they really enjoy -- helping out at the schools, in the refugee community, clearing trash and non-native plants from the riparian areas of our scenic Rappahannock River, helping out at the shelters, just to name a few activities.

Also, political activism is a form of community service too -- civic involvement beyond voting is critical to the democratic process.

Even those of us who will likely never "retire" will continue to find ways to serve our communities.

Flatus since you know nothing about it, why are your offering a commentary on it? The question was directed at me....

"I agree and wasn't suggesting she isn't."

Yes...I understood your point, KGC....

Dive- Of course I "don't feel threatened by the call by our national leaders for more people to help their communities." as long as it remains simply a call to help. As I have stated I am concerned about the "all" and the age group.

"Even those of us who will likely never "retire" will continue to find ways to serve our communities. "

Obviously. But in many ways I agree with OSH -- I've been involved in community service my entire life.

"Chloe's posts this am on gay marriage and civil rights for gays were simply beautiful.."

Thank you Tony.
But you know women cry when something makes them happy, and what you said did just that. You are such a true friend. Thanks again.

Now I gotta go.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/unsettled-senate-business.html#comment-171018

My apologies, Chloe. It wasn't clear in your earlier post -- which I didn't consider to be in disagreement, BTW -- that you meant marriage to be a choice -- not sexual orientation. Thank you for clarifying that. I made the point to discuss the word "choice" because so many people still believe that being gay is a "choice" that one can change like hair color.

That's another thing -- the term "sexual preference" indicates there is some choice involved in the person's "preference."

If we are going to educate people we need to be more careful in our language. That is my point -- not to pick a fight with you.

"because so many people still believe that being gay is a "choice" that one can change like hair color. "

Ya mean like Gov Richardson. His appearance before the gay and lesbian group was one of the most painful I have ever seen.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/unsettled-senate-business.html#comment-171028

Ok!

last night around 11 there was a knock on the door,,,my next door neighbor tom 93 years old was taken to the hospital---we sat with his wife for a cpl of hrs then family from indiana showed up,,we left----just heard from them that he has passed.......

last month a contractor friend of mine that was originally from Al passed also he was 79,and was in great shape,,,,we talked before he passed just like we always have----he was very religious at one time, not so much when he passed,,but wanted me to help his wife to adjust to him not being around-------i told him that with those types of thoughts he just got into heaven if there was one.there is one thing that a priest does better than anyone----he is much more comfortable talking about death to the family----a doctor is not so good----he is dedicated to saving lives,,,,,,i knew my friend ( he was black and a true gentleman---as in gentle) for about 25 years,,,,we are just a little bit of the universe,,a little bit of this earth,with all the chemicals that stars have before they, and we stop shining all pass away releasing the chemicals in our body to join all other chemicals that make the universe and stars,,,,,,we are all stars,,,and all the true self,(god) a part of me will be a little sad today,,,but like a star that still has some shine to it, also keep my face forward to experience the next set of dark and light.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/unsettled-senate-business.html#comment-171027

KGC -- Yep -- Richardson was tripping all over himself at that one. Painful -- like he was trying to say the right things but they came out all wrong.

Ok gang, here is the situation... Her name is Lissa and she was a close friend of a boyfriend of mine in Seattle. Lissa has always been someone of great humor, a Georgia "girl" who was living in the Pacific Northwest. I hung out with her and her partner a lot over the years.

She is a lesbian, so I am surprised by her comment. However, she is VERY bitter about Obama winning. Like me, she was staunchly for Hillary Clinton and ,like many Clinton supporters, she felt that media sexism and heavy handed behind the scenes work by the DNC was doing everything possible to prop up Obama and diminish Hillary.

She feels, as do I actually, that Barack Obama has been, at best, lukewarm on Gay and Lesbian rights. She is also FURIOUS that Obama did not choose Hillary as his running mate. Beyond that, when the DNC gave Florida only 1/2 vote per person, it alienated her totally. I understood up to this point, but where I "lost her" was when I started posting positive comments about Obama including my own endorsement of his campaign. She had sent me an email in response to a pro-Obama message I had sent and said "to hell with Obama, we're voting McCain/Palin". I don't know if I have old emails from her on this, but she felt that Obama never attended a Gay rights rally, never spoke out on Gay issues, was not a friend of the community. She was willing to vote DEM had Hillary been the VP nominee, but it seems she felt disregarded as a woman and feminist when Hillary was passed over.

Beyond this, I know she's been paying attention to some of the weird stuff said about Obama. He's had a secret gay relationship, he's really a Muslim and, as such, hates Jews and gays. This is the best I can figure about it. When I commented that Sarah Palin had come out strongly against Gay marriage including a call for a constitutional amendment to prohibit it, I mentioned that one of the reasons I liked living in Europe was the fact that Gay marriage is becoming more and more of the norm, and the discussion is not over the decline of Western civilization of values. Traditional values include marriage and the Europeans understand that this should be available to all couples.

At this point she sent me a snippy email saying "oh yes we know how bad we do things in America while Europe does everything right". This floored me! It was almost as if she was channeling my father who sees everything as black or white and if you disagree with him on anything, he will say "yes I am wrong, you are right".. no discussion possible. I did write to here to say I was disappointed by that email but still loved her and sent a birthday card.

I just found the email.. header reads: "We are voting McCain-Palin - to hell with Mr. Sexist Obama. What a loser for not picking Hillary."

Here is another comment I found:

"We're just stupid women and American taxpayers. so what do we know? I'm sure Europe is a much better place, especially if you're a Jew or Muslim."

and another comment: " I am disappointed you are so easily manipulated by the media and subcumbed to Obamania. I am still pissed with the 1/2 primary vote for Hillary that the Obama Club gave me in Florida where votes never count."

Here is one more comment: "Obama passed on all of votes relating to abortion in
> the
> > Illinois legislature and as a member of the down-low
> > community, good luck on gay rights. He did say he
> thought
> > "our gay friends should get to visit each other
> in the
> > hospital". Gee thanks. Never been to a gay
> rights
> > rally unlike Hillary who went to dozens. McCain was
> the lone
> > Republican to vote against the Marriage Amendment.
> Obama
> > would pass, I'm sure. I am voting for the guy
> with the
> > guts to pick a strong woman for Veep."

So that's about it... I feel sad and bad. I tried to explain that, at the end of the day, I am a Democrat and that the Supreme Court balance is too important to ignore. Maybe because I went silent, she got more angry. But I don't get the Jews and Muslim comments...

Thoughts?

Oh and Tony, I have Donna Summer, Madonna, Cher, Liza, Judy, Bettle, Barbra, you name it... let me know when you want to visit :-)

But you know women cry when something makes them happy, and what you said did just that. You are such a true friend. Thanks again.

Now I gotta go.

Posted by: chloe | November 8, 2008 11:18 AM

I cry at happy movies... REALLY !!!

Solar- So very sorry for your losses. Certainly you are a great comfort to your friends, I doubt many priests have anything on you

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/unsettled-senate-business.html#comment-171028

that was quite a mess of road blockage up there, factcheck. i cleaned it up in case you'd like to elaborate without so much copying pasting. Links and blurbs, please folks! Copying full articles into our threads is not much appreciated around here -- not to mention the copyright issues.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/unsettled-senate-business.html#comment-171034

ET -- Your "Lissa" sounds like a lot of my "friends" who are stuck on anger over the primaries. You know I was terrifically sad about Hillary's loss of the nomination. I was convinced that I could not not support Obama and even thought about writing in HIllary's name. When it became clear to me that Virginia was a battleground state and the Clintons were openly and enthusiastically campaigning for Obama, I began to rethink my earlier assessments. I stayed in touch with my HRC campaign friends because we are friends, but I was mystified and horrified at some of the emails they were sending and continue to send my way. I saw one of them out campaigning for McCain/Palin on election day -- she actually saw me first and called me a "confused troublemaker" from her position in the GOP gaggle. I just waved and went about my business picking up the Houdini targeted voter sheets from the DEM workers and dropping off more DEM sample ballots. Her work for McCain was not successful -- the precinct she worked at went overwhelmingly for Obama.

So to anyone who cares about the success of the Obama presidency and is tempted to further agitate the PUMAs by name calling and snide remarks -- just know that you can do little more than to drive them further away. Ultimately I don't think that's the wisest course, since it only verifies their assertions that everyone for Obama and the Democratic Party is sexist and misogynist.

Thank you. Operator error.

sorry I've been gone for several hours...

In a couple hours I go to my ex's and his American husband for dinner.

Did I ever share the image of the AIDS quilt patch that was made for my very first boyfriend? I think I have. I was 19 and he was 32 when we met and became a couple. I remember thinking how old 32 was. Now at 49... LOL... anyway I saw the photo of the patch on my screen saver today and it always makes me a bit sad.

If you want to see, it click on this link...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_AkS06L44t5g/SJ6QmnexqkI/AAAAAAAAAEU/DbY-8jk0_rI/s1600-h/Larry+Ford.jpg

Also a few new photos of me on Election day, and a photo of me with Mauro and a photo of my ex-Ignace and his american husband John.

http://eurotom.blogspot.com/

sorry for my long post Craig...

ET -- I think about of the PUMAs just felt validate by the GOP who were cynically looking for votes. Knowing what I know about the GOP, it will not take too long before the true GOP colors come out -- and they're definitely not rainbow.

The PUMAs are the next version of "Reagan Democrats" who tend to vote against their own interests in voting with the GOP. At least the God and guns voters had that bone thrown to them by the GOP -- the woman VP bone is mighty lean and will not be enough to sustain the loyalty/interest of the majority of PUMAs. However, DEMS who persist in sexist and misogynist remarks do absolutely nothing for supporting party unity and therefore are their own PUMAs.

I can understand PUMA anger but not voting against their own interests....

Puma ----Shuma, if obama does just a cpl of things that he promised they won't exist,,,,,,if N C and IN went blue i would not worry about a little anger that was justified---hell i have never voted for an R or a D if he can keep just a cple big promises like health, get the troops home all of them,,and get the economy to a respectful level----im blue too and so will the pumas be????

"Thoughts?"

ET: See my post of "November 8, 2008 9:58 AM"

That's what I had suspected.

Solar -- your post on the universe was wonderful.

IIllinois Lottery Winning Numbers

11/05/2008 Evening Pick 3

6-6-6

http://illinoislottery.com/subsections/History/Win2008.txt

"However, DEMS who persist in sexist and misogynist remarks do absolutely nothing for supporting party unity and therefore are their own PUMAs. "

Hear, hear, Alicia!

Bethyboo ------i misled you when i said that we will live ( in the future) to be as old as the people in the bible 1000,years and more

since i believe that we are just a little bit of the universe, it seems to me that i don't only have a physical organism (my body) but my body is also my total environment, and this must be measured by light years in the billions,,,the universe is 4 bil i have to think about what is the appropriate amount of candles on my next birthday cake,,ask bil???

ROFL@666!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Patsi---just a few conflicting feeling that go thru my mind from a few books, cosmology tapes, evolution, etc, when someone dies,, if it was possible to buy heaven for someone i would make the church richer and light all the friggin candles that they have---and they would have to give me a recite from peter for the entry---ha ha

Gordo---u just made my day----lottery 6-6-6---find out if they boxed them wil u---thanks

Solar-if heaven is for good people, I don't think you have anything t worry about.:)

Gordo, on the other hand....you might want to hold on to that original copy of your BC, just in case.

The funders of prop 8

http://www.californiansagainsthate.com/dishonorRoll.html

Rosie

Rosie--i thought u and were pals----wattsa mata u-----if i go to heaven no one will recognize me-----my bests friends will be having a good ole hot time,,, i want to go where the fun is,,,,please don't put me in the eternal sabbath,,,what fun will that be??as u can see i don't believe in the after life,,,, so i will enjoy this one as much as i can,,,, the ones that do believe, to me are too busy kissing gods( one of about 500 and more)ass and making this world a livigng hell, for the rest--sorry to carry on.any way thanks for your thoughts ;-)

PATSI

Patsi---I know i am going back and forth in thought today--maybe im looking for a fight------so here, u wanna fight huh!,,u r form TN right?

G E O G R A P H I C A L L Y-- O R I E N T E D-- H U M O R
Tennessee
The owner of a golf course was confused about paying an invoice, so he decided
to ask his secretary for some mathematical help. He called her into his office and said, '
You graduated from the University of Tennessee and I need some help.
If I were to give you $20,000, minus 14%, how much would you take off?'
The secretary thought ent, and then replied, 'Everything but my earrings.'

Oh Solar, I believe in the eternal blankness.too. If I could, my head would be frozen right next to yours. I think I like sf stuff so much, cos to me, it's the same as looking into the future. I truely believe that whatever we can imagine, eventually we can achieve.

'Everything but my earrings.'

ROFL!

I believe anything about Tennessee. The state elected a guy to office from his jail cell the year I moved here from Colorado....

Rosie

don't cut off my head yet,,,but lets go,,,but i hope that when our heads are frozen we don't want someone like Jack Whisky around---he likes to pickle things. haha

I think in your case, it's too late. Youz already done the picklin'.

Obama Anti-Christ? McCain Ad Touches Off Religious Debate

"A number of progressive religious figures are angry over the McCain campaign's recent ad "The One," which they believe paints Barack Obama as a kind of anti-Christ, specifically to conservative evangelicals:

At the same time, several blogs have noted a growing number of conservative evangelicals alleging that Obama is the anti-Christ, or at least a precursor to that end-of-days figure."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/03/obama-anti-christ-mccain_n_116588.html

Colorado ---did u say Colorado???no-no jokes about colorado,,solly,

feel a little silly also--like when i used to drink heavy on a friday night, then on saturday show up at the tavern,,, line up a shot of tequillia, a bottle of bud, and a bloody mary with tom toms tomato juice, and some hot sauce,,,,,two of these and good to go,,,think ill go out for a run instead---see u later,,,, just saw ur post rosie all i can say is :-)))

craig - Congrats on making it out of the tub this time.

From OT: Hope Obama didn't look run down because of his security briefing. He has had a big week, happy and sad.

Must admit, I forwarded the clip to the part Craig was on; still put off by KO's behavior.

"sorry for my long post Craig... Posted by: EuroTom"

no no ET, long form original writing is cool. i just try to discourage lengthy copy-and-pastes from other sites when links and descriptions suffice -- understand yours was "operator error" factcheck, just took the occasion for that reminder

euTom - I don't get the comments, either. I also don't understand the cut-off-your-nose-to-spite-your-face voters. McCain's pick of Palin proved that he didn't understand why we thought Hil'ry was the best 'person' for prez.

I still don't have a strong grasp of Obama's intentions because his speeches, while moving, lack details. Another reason I liked Hil'ry. Still, I wish the Obama administration all the best, not only for my own self-interest, but for the future of the country. I truly felt inexplicably more American during his acceptance speech.

MQW---tahiti ---girl in grass skirts,,,now u talkin----im in

Craig

Question for u----tonight i think is the first time that CNN will premier ( i think it is his first show?) the D.L. Hughley show -----whats your thoughts about---people that get all their news thru the comedians, i know its been done for a long time..but don't people like C M of msnbc and others get a little side tracked( when on saturday night live they tend to show comedy bits endlessly?), and forget to report the news,,,i don't think its all bad but it does get in the way of good reporting imo????

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/unsettled-senate-business.html#comment-171080

Solar, i get your concern but i've always felt anything that gets people to pay attention to the news is a good thing -- and if comedy is the only way some people want their news, so be it, they still might learn something, or at least get curious to learn

Crag - Funny....

I just got an email from lil sis - aka Peanut - Your wiki entry is making the Oak Ridge rounds...
homeboy done good
What timing...

tho'ts on cuba
http://www.realclearworld.com/news/ap/international/2008/Nov/08/analysis__obama_changes_could_test_castros__grip.html

i sent an email to Cherryice btw inviting a comeback to bask in the glory of possible prediction glory. has Cherryice been seen here since? Actually, the full screen name is Cherryice1988. Here's the fateful prediction:

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/my-electoral-college-predictio.html#comment-167251

I think Obama has 365 because he got a vote in Nebraska
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/unsettled-senate-business.html#comment-171082

ha Ping Pong, maybe that's why i've been getting a bunch of emails from people who think i went to Oak Ridge H.S. in Tennessee (i didn't even know there was another)

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/unsettled-senate-business.html#comment-171086

wow, that would put Sheila in the running:

Sheila 365 173 Obama + 5

your right, KGC, Obama got NE's 2d district on the strength of mail-in ballots:

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2835&u_sid=10481441

So Omaha is following the pattern of Orange county Fla., the Philly suburbs, the Virgina suburbs, the Research triangle in N.C, ?

Regarding Obama and community service. Some high schools were already doing that. Requiring students to some community service before they graduated. I think some may have stopped doing it. As long as the commuinity service doesn't come from getting caught selling weed in NYC...

State of Florida - As I understand for the highest college grant level - you must have both academic and Community service

I think this was a Jeb leadership result. Thank you Jeb –

Here's an autopsy on cell phone / land line voters .
-------------------------
Exit poll: 1 in 5 voters only have cell phones

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5ghE90VmHD7FCzd3Vq-_6-lUOUEDwD94A88U00

cc paste on the Community service requirement - I think they lowered the total.... Highest award was 150 Hours - i think??

"Documentation of 75 hours of community service, if applicable. To qualify for the Florida Academic Scholars award, a student must complete 75 hours of community service during high school, by high school graduation. The agency or agencies where the community service hours were earned must provide documentation on agency letterhead. "

http://www.floridastudentfinancialaid.org/ssfad/bf/oospac.htm

FRONTLINE Presents
Boogie Man: The Lee Atwater Story
Tuesday, November 11, 2008, from 9-10:30 P.M. ET on PBS
-------------------------
The story tracks Atwater’s rise from his beginnings in South Carolina as a high school election kingmaker all the way to the White House and his subsequent battle with cancer and final search for forgiveness and redemption.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/atwater/

"high school election kingmaker" .....
That'll be interesting.

Read these, I'm sure you will all find some that you think are funny.

http://www.despair.com/indem.html

RE;
Community Service, anything that the country can do to knit us together is something we should all applaud, and support. Given the centrifical forces, that are spinning us into more and more self selecting groups.
Whether we do at our home, our church, our city, our state, or our country. Self selecting groups have a tendency drift to their extremes.

Years ago I saw an item on the positive effects the returning vets of World War II had on Americas college campuses, and how the colleges had improved by having all these young men flood into them.
They came from groups who would had never been to college prior to the war, and they brought an attitude with them that changed our campuses for the better.
When the government passed the GI bill , I'm sure this side effect was never even on the radar of most people.
One of the stupidest things the left ever did was kicking ROTC off campuses.

Best post of the day goes to Corey @ 3:17 -
From the link :
"Never before have so many people with so little to say said so much to so few."

In keeping with so little to say!

Do you think Michelle can sing and record ?

What follows is from msnbc.msn...

"New York magazine hailed Obama for being able to hold her own against France's first lady Carla Bruni-Sarkozy, a former supermodel."

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/27606728/?GT1=43001

Since this herd of cats has some difficulty following instructions, I had declared Cherry Ice and UB as a tie. Now if Missouri changes from McCain to Obama then that puts it into the 375 realm, and again no tie breaker percentage for Rosie the Cat so since BlinCincinnati came so close with +5, I'll let them hash out the bragging rights

BlinCincinnati 375
Obama + 5

Rosiethecat 375

Now if Georgia and the Chamblis crowd hadn't played fast and loose with the ballots (vs. the exit polls) in Georgia, then we would be talking AP with 390, but I imagine Chamblis the sleeze will get away with that one.

".....both academic and Community service....I think this was a Jeb leadership result. Thank you Jeb" [Ping Pong]

the only community service for which jeb should be thanked is leaving the gov office before he completely destroyed the state. there's something weird about the bushies and their antipathy for and tendancy to demolish once good legal systems.

ping, i don't think that comm serv idea started with jeb btw. former fsu pres d'alemberte may have been responsible.

If you want a copy of the November 5 Chicago Sun Times, it is $10 and can be ordered here

https://register.suntimesnewsgroup.com/clickshare/requestItemsObama.do

For the Chicago Tribune go here

http://tribunestore.chicagotribune.com/

New York Times

http://www.nytstore.com/?utm_source=nytimes&utm_medium=HPB&utm_content=v1&utm_campaign=elect2008

Washington Post

http://www.cafepress.com/washingtonpost/6162855

Today is the 8th of November...here's the song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmHgwjXlsPY

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/unsettled-senate-business.html#comment-171104

But Jamie, thanks to KGC's good catch earlier, looks like it could be 365, as NE ended up awarding one vote to Obama

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2835&u_sid=10481441

Excellent! Democrats will benefit from DeLay's BS:

http://thehill.com/business--lobby/obama-win-means-change-for-k-street-2008-11-05.html

You want Wed's front pages? Here they are:
http://www.newseum.org/todaysfrontpages/default_archive.asp?fpArchive=110508

I like the Huntsville Times front page the best:
http://www.newseum.org/todaysfrontpages/hr_archive.asp?fpVname=AL_HT&ref_pge=gal&b_pge=1

Flatus -- what a nifty link! Those front pages are fabulous!

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/unsettled-senate-business.html#comment-171049

Well Patsi, turns out you were spot on. I am a bit hurt by Lissa's tirade because it isn't the person I have known since the mid 1980s.

I am enjoying the blog today and I thought Craig's appearance on Countdown was great. I am betting that the Dem Senate leadership will call President-elect Obama to ask him to make a public request to NOT strip Lieberman of his committee chairmanship. This gives them one more cushion against the right wing Republicans and sends a message that the new President-elect is standing by his philosophy of a new sort of politics.

Long post alert: This started off as small, but I just kept on going. There's no venom, just sorrow and disappointment.

Solar - I've informed my family many times that I want to be cremated, my ashes placed in a bio-degradable urn of some sort, walked down the street in New Orleans followed by a dixieland band dressed in white tuxes and dancin', and eventually pitched far out into the gulf of mexico....so that I will be swept up into the gulf stream, carried to England and the rest of Europe to become part of storms and weather carried around the earth forever, with occasional bits of time on land.

I have no problem with anybody else living for ever - just don't want it to be me!

ET - that email was definitely nasty, but I can understand what she is saying. I guess I could be called a women's libber, but not aggressive about it at all.

It's just that I've had my eyes opened this election about a sorry fact.. Someone here made a comment that the next pres would have to be Latino, and I can hear the context already. Somehow Americans
don't seem to see much value in women as women.

We tend to love our mothers and think that is proof we value them - we just don't think to look to them to handle the 'big important stuff.' I agree that the next president might well be a Latino, and maybe even a female Latino, but in that case the important thing would be that she is a Latino female.

To recognize that a female - simply a female and not necessarily a particular ethnic female - can do the job is too much for our country. Thatcher and Merkel and Gandhi have been seen by many as very capable, but it seems to be part of American culture that 'our' women are nice and comforting, and oh, so sexy, but just not enough.

I think maybe your friend is feeling that, and is bitter. I also think that part of our culture's anti-female bias springs from jealousy - we are so competitive and don't like to lose to anyone, esp someone seen to be smaller and weaker. A really smart capable woman can send people to demand genetic test.

So I understand your friends bitterness, but don't get her rant.

As I said, I am not aggressive about women's rights, but I am really saddened by America's failure in this.
We have been leaders in so much, and in this we have shown we are pusilanimous.

I have always thought that one of the greatest weaknesses Muslim culture had to deal with is their cubjugation of women. Think of the brilliant minds they could harness if they recognized the complete, not partial, humanity of women.

I don't think we will haave a woman elected president other than an ethnic woman in this country in my lifetime or on the lifetimes of our grandchildren. It may well take us out of our leadership position in the world but if that's ok with us, that's what we will get.

These are just wandering thoughts. not accusations. I have no intention of squealing about them or fighting about them, and I won't march in parades, or accuse anyone of misogyny(except KO and Tweety and a few of those) - to me it's endemic. People who don't believe there's a disease won't let themselves be cured.

Lieberman and the Dems
They like him. They really really like him. It boggles the mind.
This is a very interesting take on why Lieberman should be denied the Homeland Security chairmanship.
http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/08/come-saturday-morning-why-lieberman-really-wants-the-hsga-gavel/

This seems to be routinely overlooked, but take a moment to consider what the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs actually does: it's the committee principally responsible for oversight of the executive branch. It's an accountability committee, charged with investigating the conduct of the White House and the president's administration.

As chairman of this committee for the last two years, Lieberman decided not to pursue any accusations of wrongdoing against the Bush administration. Lieberman's House counterpart -- Rep. Henry Waxman's Oversight Committee -- was a vigilant watchdog, holding hearings, issuing subpoenas, and launching multiple investigations. Lieberman preferred to let his committee do no real work at all. It was arguably the most pathetic display of this Congress.

ET -- You never can tell when people will turn out to be clueless about you. I told you about the liberal male friend of mine who thought that I would think a photoshopped photo of Sarah Palin's daughter made to look like a tramp, with caption: Like Mother Like Daughter, was funny. He assumed because I am a Democrat that somehow I would completely abandon my feminist views at the expense of a 17 year old girl. Sweet Jeezus.

I've been emailing most of the day with a gay friend in New Jersey who is simply done in by that Prop 8 vote. Also that BS about "single" (read: gay) people adopting. He and his partner adopted a baby boy some years back, and they are some of the best parents I've ever known. (We trade photos of my granddaughter and their son, and have plans for the two to marry one day....ha!)

Thanks for that link, KGC -- spot on!!!!!

Lieberman's getting to skate is just another example of actions and no consequences or at least not the ones deserved.

KGC -- Dodd supporting Lieberman....Jeezus....

http://www.courant.com/news/politics/hc-lieberman1108.artnov08,0,1521405.story

Old Boyz Club for sure.

D'ya suppose it was Rove that thought so little of women that he just thought we vote for anything with virgina?

KGC

It is the senate, it always has been and always will be. The recent Republican years were an aberation. in the way they over rode the committee chairmen. The senate is all about tradition for many.

Jack

Jack

What happened to turning the page?

dump lieberman would make a good dotcom......
but anyway........Dump Lieberman

'Office of President Elect of the United States'

"I nearly busted a gut. This is something straight out of Saturday Night Live. The proud savior of the United States of America. The new voice of the downtrodden minorities, the poor, and the oppressed.

He is surrounded by a bunch of rich white folks. He is standing behind a little blue sign with a made up little title: The Office of the President Elect."

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/11/office_of_president_elect_of_t_1.html

"Turn the Page"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe7yOccqdxI

Well. some of 'em are Jewish. They don't count as "white" to some people.

Seniority.

Totally sacred, expect a Senator to vote against motherhood or turn down a perk before he will endanger seniority

Jack

Craig,

If it is 365 then that is Chef Sheila all by her lonesome.

Is that really a BAD thing?

"he just thought we vote for anything with virgina?"

ROFL...Yes, Virginia....there is a "vagina."

I'm so impressed that -- given the list of criminals, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld -- you are obsessing over Palin's vagina.

You know, they are still selling that Palin sex blow up doll....you can buy it on the net and, well, whatever....

I was referring to the typo.....

Well, SOME one was obsessing over it, 'cos SOME one obviously thought that would be enough to bring over the Hillary votes.

Patsi-it wasn't a typo. You need more Family Guy :)

Family Guy isn't exactly my idea of a great watch. But I'll check it out once more on your behalf, Rosie.

Good for Obama! Excellent!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/08/AR2008110801856.html?hpid=topnews

"he is appealing to the base AND he was fully vetted."

he certainly was not vetted -- and McCain hated him. Not possible.

From what I've read and seen, Palin wasn't even McCain's choice, but the behind-the-scenes Pubs who knew McCain had lost the base. The fact that she was a woman was just icing. Now we'll see a fight for the party, and hopefully it will be stupid. Romney (the money conservatives) or Palin (social issues)...oh, but there's also Newt waiting in the wings.

... Obama not elected yet

"The rule of law and the US Constitution must be upheld. Period. This means that no matter who is running for the office of president, mo matter what color their skin is or anything else about them, they must be eligible to be president and must, if challenged, prove their eligibility. Barack Obama is not eligible to be president."

http://citizenwells.wordpress.com/2008/11/08/obama-is-not-eligible-to-be-potus-electoral-college-electors-us-senators-us-representatives-us-supreme-court-philip-j-berg-lawsuit-appeal-obama-not-elected-yet/

According to the rummer mill, there wasn't much love lost between Mc and Palin. And what d'ya mean he wasn't vetted? The man ran for POTUS, He was pretty squeeky clean.

What I find really funny, is that all of you Obama Supporters, so happy with his win. STILL INSIST, on bashing Gov. Palin. The race is over, but, I will be returning, every now and then to bash Obama. Just thought I'd let you know turn-about- is fair-play. And by the way, he is not the President, until Jan 20th 2009, until then he and his wife are just President and First Lady Elect, nothing more.

SoetorObama was not vetted.

I wouldn't worry about Newt-Mc has the grumpy old man spot tied up.

Vetted? Huckabee? Not quite. The media had given him a pass for, as governor, putting a stop to the investigation and covering up his son's slitting a dog's throat at a summer camp. You are outraged by Troopergate? How about Dog Killergate?

I love your ...."rummer mill" -- it's actually a great typo or misspelling or whatever it was.

"I wouldn't worry about Newt-Mc has the grumpy old man spot tied up."

I remember writing off Reagan, too.

Ugh! I forgot about the dog killing. I'll concede on that one point, but stand by the rest. Palin was a play for the chick vote.

rummer mill was more of a freudian slip.

"Palin was a play for the chick vote."

Disagree, but that's what makes a horse race.
It might have been about number 4, after God, Guns, & Family...

I think rummer mill is a CLASSIC Freudian slip!

The only one I've ever heard better was when an author friend of mine said her sister made a "fraudian slip" -- meaning "Freudian." ROFL.

"The Drummer is a rummer and can't hold the beat." That's an old and strange story from country music history.

OK, guys, the cat fight is over.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/unsettled-senate-business.html#comment-171035

Hey Tom
HA !You have Donna Summer! GREAT!! I would love to meet you someday. I love Europe and I'm sure I will travel there again and at such time if it works for you we will meet...Its great to have things to look forward too!! Tom your the Greatest,sorry about your friends E-mails! I understand there anger but not the extreme course its taken...Hope you can salvage the friendship,give her a call??

Solar
I hope your doing OK? I'm sorry for your loss. Keep on keeping on.....Tony

"OK, guys, the cat fight is over."

??

Hope you don't consider two women arguing a "cat fight"....bizarre.

"HA !You have Donna Summer! "

Tony and ET -- my friend Anthony Smith here in Nashville has worked with Donna and says she is one of the finest people he's ever met.

Well, we certainly weren't having a pissing contest.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/unsettled-senate-business.html#comment-171172

Hey Patsi
OMG,Great.I have been wanting to ask you about Donna forever!! I know Donna lives in Nashville and I have often wondered if you heard anything about the Queen!! HA,Thanks Patsi...

LOL

If it was a contest then Patsi is still "da winna , an champeen"

Jack

Tony -- I've never met Donna...just heard about her from my friend Anthony (who has written with her, and I believe even produced a few of her songs)...but I did talk once witrh her husband on the phone (he needed a favor) -- and I thought he was kind of a prick who thought he was more talented than his wife. But that's just my takewaway from the conversation.

It was sexist to pick her.

And that would be a good thing....

ROFL -- Rosie, thought you didn't believe sexism existed during this campaign....

It was sexist to pick her.

Glad you have come around, Rosie. Sexism exists! A convert.

oops, sorry. dbl post. A lot of what people scream sexist about, wasn't. But it is just so obvious some one said "let's get a conservitive woman and we'll get the chick vote" Don;t you remember some of her first speeches? "we won't leave anyone out" very obviously towards the Hillary people.

What I don't understand is why, with all the Bush criminals out there, you are still obsessing about the women in this dog fight.....or aas Rosie likes to say, the vagina.

Rosie

The Republicans have been trotting out good strong candidates for years. That McCain would turn to one is not unusual but Patsi is right on this one. Look at how she was used. She made a difference strenghtening and rallying the base.

Jack

Sure she praised the women involved. She actually DID support women in the beginning, before the left called her and her daughter whores. And don't drag up Roe in this -- because I know a lot of pro-life feminists. I disagree with them, but they believe in the core of feminism: equal pay for equal work.

And then to make matters worse, she has to act out a sterio-type and do the 'shop a-hollic' thing? And evertime some one said anything negitive, she'd scream foul? Oh...my hurting pride.

Or she praised them until the Democrats called her daughter a whore.

Patsi- did you read about the Promise Keepers,yet? I'm still trying to find out if she and Todd are involved in that. Please look it up and read it. It is a big movement with evangelicals. It will give you nightmares, for sure.

I can't believe I am talking feminism to two people who never once gave a thought to it until the subject became politically expedient.

Sweet Jeezus, Rosie, is this the first time you've heard about Promise Keepers? It's old news. Been around for years. Where have you been? And somehow I don't believe that the Palins are involved in it. They are evangelical, but not all evangelicals are Promise Keepers. And that doesn't even get into the difference between evangelical, charismatic, fundamentalist, and a myriad of right wing religious beliefs. They aren't all the same.

Rosie

If the shoe fits

My sister and her husband have been involved for years. Like I said, stuff of nightmares. Remember,Palin is MY gov. I'd love to know if they are involved.
and Jack....not even gonna dignify THAT.

I've got an idea for community service....

*sigh* My hero! ;-)

Well, then Rosie, go find out if they are Promise Keepers. I can't help it if your family is into it.

ROFL, Corey -- God, no.

Sometimes, people get involved with things and they think they it's a good idea. Others look at those people and think they don't know what's good for them.

Choose your friends wisely, Jack???

The snake--- Al Wilson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_ZBqpEUbik

Corey

And your enemies even more so ;-0

Jack

Then you need to watch the name calling yourself, as you profess not to know what is what.

Jack

I think Al stole Lou's voice. :-)

*takes a nibble* Well. maybe just a small bit. Will it make me as smart as you?

Jack-What are you talking about? I've not been rude to anyone that I know of.

I just read an article on the dangers of heavy
Drinking....

Scared the shit out of me.

So that's it!

After today, no more reading.

LOL@rez

Hi rosie,
i just dropped in here for a sec to see what's up. Saw the word "catfight"; typical guy, I had to stay a minute to check it out. lol

Was listening to a historian. Not Adolf -- more like Benito.

Hey B. sup brother!

Hey G Man,

Did you catch my comment the other nite?:

My Kenyan beat your Panamanian. rofl.

I don't know,man. To me being a feminist is standing toe to toe with the dudes and taking the shit, not screaming sexism every time my feelings get hurt.

Well, ...duh!

"standing toe to toe with the dudes and taking the shit,"

God I'm glad I checked in one last time. Rosie, Rosie....I think ye know not what ye say.....

Rezdog -----------------

It's not over. Berg filed something new against SoetorObama on Friday. Both Berg and Martin are making plans and contacting electors.

Patsi-trust me, I give it back in spades. And if I was rude to you, it was unintentional. I just like having strong disscusions.

Gordo- what was the new something?

On the Lieberman matter, it's been a long time brewing. The anger against Joe Lieberman goes back to 2006.

He was not the only Senator who continued to support a forever occupation. There were others. But even then he was unique as a Democrat in going out of his way to taunt those whose support he demanded.

rosiethecat ---------------

Don't know the details - heard him on a netcast mention something was filed in DC. Just walked into the room as he was finishing his description. Have not been able to find any info about it.

thanks:)

"Berg filed something new against SoetorObama on Friday."

Good for him, I'm sure you'll be buying his book when it comes out.

btw, Don't hold your breath on cert being granted.

Rezdog ---------------

This "new something" is separate from what's before the Supreme Court.

Think of the mess if SoetorObama is sworn in and then info surfaces that proves he's not Constitutionally eligible for POTUS. If you really believe he is eligible, you would be in favor of releasing all documents - not hiding them.

"If you really believe he is eligible" ROFLMFAO

didn't you say you had some stuff on Rahm?

Rezdog--------------

Thought you would reply like that. People hold back documents for a reason - they don't want something to be known. SoetorObama does have a "hidden" past.

Think of the mess if SoetorObama is sworn in and then info surfaces that proves he's not Constitutionally eligible for POTUS.

Posted by: GORDO | November 8, 2008 11:28 PM

Exactly. Which is why even if all you say is true, it's still irrelevant. There's the truth, and what you're allowed to know, which for all intensive purposes are one and the same, as far as we are all concerned. You claim to withhold information yourself, so how is that any different from the transgressions you decry?

That's TOO deep for me.

No shit.

That reminds me of an episode of Family Guy....

G Man,

Sorry, but, in me, you're probably arguing with the wrong person, because I don't give a damn where he was born.

Champ ------------

What do I withhold? What difference does it make?

Heard Ron Paul on a netcast several days ago. He's in favor of finding out the TRUTH about SoetorObama. There is such a thing as TRUTH.

G Man,

That's rich, playing the Paul card with Champ. lol

Wow, that is low trying to use Ron Paul against me. For shame.

Awww, does Bry Bry need attention? What's the matter? No one gives a damn about you now that the election is over? So sad.

Rezdog ----------

I know. It's not just about where he was born. His "hidden" past is being hidden for many reasons.

Below the belt in my book!

Oh yeah I forgot, he's Malcolm X's progeny come to take us all to hell.

Good evening gentlemen, how are you all tonight?

Dowd column, money line:
"As Andrew Young told Stephen Colbert, “The world got so messed up nobody else wanted to really tackle it so then they turned it over to us.” "

Almost every wrap-up-election column mentions tears...tears from people from all over the human spectrum...so I guess I was not alone after all !!
And those who scoff at Jesse's tears as he stood there on the ground at Grant Park really don't get it at all. They don't get any of it, and no sense explaining it to them. They have no clue that Jesse was on that Lorraine Motel balcony on April 4, 1968.

Cat fight ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKKxhVcyV4w

cat fight - correct link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ej1-92w5tE

Fascinating article...

How Barack Obama overcame Hillary Clinton and John McCain to win the White House: the full inside story
It all seems so inevitable now. History has been made, America has its first black President, and the images, soundbites and gaffes have become part of the lore of this marathon political campaign.

By Tim Shipman in Washington
Last Updated: 8:35PM GMT 08 Nov 2008

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/3407635/How-Barack-Obama-overcame-Hillary-Clinton-and-John-McCain-to-win-the-White-House-the-full-inside-story.html

"There is such a thing as TRUTH."

Yes GORDO, and we'll let you know when you're getting warm.

Looking at TPM this morning, and it looks like the 2 senate races still out are drifting the Dems way.
Norm's called out his lawyers , and losing the skirmishes .

NEW YORK — The FBI tracked the late Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist and author David Halberstam for more than two decades, newly released documents show
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/08/fbi-tracked-david-halbers_n_142403.html

Twenty die in Russian nuclear sub accident

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/09/AR2008110900566.html

The only good Russian sailor was Peter the Great.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/unsettled-senate-business.html#comment-171288

Don't hold your breath...

from the fringe.

"...many on the losing end of last week's election want to hold on to their anger. And there are those in the media -- led by the likes of Limbaugh and Hannity -- only too ready to feed that animus, along with their own ratings."

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-onthemedia9-2008nov09,0,4216330.story

from same link above:

"Perhaps Hannity, Limbaugh and the rest of those intent on poisoning the soil before bipartisanship can take root might recall words of wisdom from Brit Hume, a veteran newsman who is close to leaving the Fox anchor desk for semi-retirement.

The problem with the accusations of Obama being "dangerous" and "radical," Hume said on election night, "was that it just didn't fit with the man you saw before your eyes."

patd, Hannity and Limbaugh are entertainers as are KO and Tweets. As such, they should all be dismissed as being in the irrelevant polar extremes so far as their core beliefs are concerned. Their in-your-face presentations are hopelessly divisive.

Personally, I like Greta very much. She delves into a subject much as if she were dissecting an onion--exploring the subject layer by hidden layer. I'm looking forward to her piece on Palin Monday evening. I won't even guess at how the interview will unfold.

Grover Norquist on C-Span this morning.

More Reagan , rise, repeat.
More Reagan , rise, repeat.
More Reagan , rise, repeat.

HELP HELP I'M BEING REPRESSED

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o76WQzVJ434

Good morning all. I'm with you Flatus! Have really come to appreciate Greta.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExWfh6sGyso

what has the gov't ever done for us?

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/11/09/MN6I140KIG.DTL&tsp=1

Decades later, during World War II, the U.S. Army used the resort as a top-secret interrogation center for prisoners of war - one of only two such interrogation centers in the nation, the other being in Virginia. In a novel experiment, guards let the mostly Japanese inmates soak in the spas and party in the swank rooms - and then clandestinely recorded their relaxed conversations, gleaning what Army researchers now say were important tips about enemy operations in the Pacific.

see there is an alternative to torture

What have the Roman's ever done for us ?

Perfect.

Six miles from Urfa, an ancient city in southeastern Turkey, Klaus Schmidt has made one of the most startling archaeological discoveries of our time: massive carved stones about 11,000 years old, crafted and arranged by prehistoric people who had not yet developed metal tools or even pottery. The megaliths predate Stonehenge by some 6,000 years. The place is called Gobekli Tepe, and Schmidt, a German archaeologist who has been working here more than a decade, is convinced it's the site of the world's oldest temple.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/gobekli-tepe.html?c=y&page=1#

Wewease Wodewick!

"...a provision to allow veterans and military members out of uniform to salute the flag during the National Anthem"

http://inhofe.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressRoom.PressReleases&ContentRecord_id=fc7305af-802a-23ad-4576-01ccd598e20e

In fact, research at other sites in the region has shown that within 1,000 years of Gobekli Tepe's construction, settlers had corralled sheep, cattle and pigs. And, at a prehistoric village just 20 miles away, geneticists found evidence of the world's oldest domesticated strains of wheat; radiocarbon dating indicates agriculture developed there around 10,500 years ago, or just five centuries after Gobekli Tepe's construction.

Photo Gallery -
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/multimedia/photos/?c=y&articleID=30706129&page=1

KGC

I reads something several months ago about the techniques of the virginia POW camp, where high rank germans were held. As I remember , they worked to become aquainted and share personal stuff. It too was effective.
I think the technique involves keeping track of what is said, For the interviewee it is harder to keep track of his lies. and also we are social creatures and need social contact even with those we view enemies.

Jack

Related:

http://health.howstuffworks.com/stockholm-syndrome.htm/printable

Monks brawl at Christian holy site

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/11/09/news/ML-Israel-Brawling-Monks.php

anon....that's an amazing thing...........I'm really looking forward to hearing more bout those things going on there now.........

hard to beat a good monk fight............

Brain Scans Show Bullies Enjoy Others' Pain

FRIDAY, Nov. 7
-- Bullies may actually enjoy the pain they cause others, a new study using brain scans suggests.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/07/AR2008110701898.html

-------------------
That would explain the Bushites pretty well.

Jack

If Republicans are to have any hope for the future I think they have to treat Shrub as a rogue gooper. Not only did the the Shrubians consistently pick the wrong policy, whatever their choice, they implemented it poorly.

The Milgram experiment on Wikipedia:

Three people take part in the experiment: "experimentor", "learner" ("victim") and "teacher" (participant). Only the "teacher" is an actual participant, i.e. unaware about the actual setup, while the "learner" is a confederate of the experimenter. The role of the experimenter was played by a stern, impassive biology teacher dressed in a grey technician's coat, and the victim (learner) was played by a 47 year old Irish-American accountant trained to act for the role. The participant and the learner were told by the experimenter that they would be participating in an experiment helping his study of memory and learning in different situations.

Two slips of paper were then presented to the participant and to the "learner". The participant was led to believe that one of the slips said "learner" and the other said "teacher," and that he and the actor had been given the slips randomly. In fact, both slips said "teacher," but the actor claimed to have the slip that read "learner," thus guaranteeing that the participant would always be the "teacher." At this point, the "teacher" and "learner" were separated into different rooms where they could communicate but not see each other. In one version of the experiment, the confederate was sure to mention to the participant that he had a heart condition.

The "teacher" was given a 45-volt electric shock from the electro-shock generator as a sample of the shock that the "learner" would supposedly receive during the experiment. The "teacher" was then given a list of word pairs which he was to teach the learner. The teacher began by reading the list of word pairs to the learner. The teacher would then read the first word of each pair and read four possible answers. The learner would press a button to indicate his response. If the answer was incorrect, the teacher would administer a shock to the learner, with the voltage increasing for each wrong answer. If correct, the teacher would read the next word pair.

The subjects believed that for each wrong answer, the learner was receiving actual shocks. In reality, there were no shocks. After the confederate was separated from the subject, the confederate set up a tape recorder integrated with the electro-shock generator, which played pre-recorded sounds for each shock level. After a number of voltage level increases, the actor started to bang on the wall that separated him from the subject. After several times banging on the wall and complaining about his heart condition, all responses by the learner would cease.

At this point, many people indicated their desire to stop the experiment and check on the learner. Some test subjects paused at 135 volts and began to question the purpose of the experiment. Most continued after being assured that they would not be held responsible. A few subjects began to laugh nervously or exhibit other signs of extreme stress once they heard the screams of pain coming from the learner.

If at any time the subject indicated his desire to halt the experiment, he was given a succession of verbal prods by the experimenter, in this order:

Please continue.
The experiment requires that you continue.
It is absolutely essential that you continue.
You have no other choice, you must go on.
If the subject still wished to stop after all four successive verbal prods, the experiment was halted. Otherwise, it was halted after the subject had given the maximum 450-volt shock three times in succession. This experiment could be seen to raise some ethical issues as Stanley Milgram deceived his study's subjects, and put them under more pressure than many believe was necessary

Sturg -

I like that it turns the theory of the birth of civilization on it's head. We didn't settle down and invent God, we invented God and settled down.

Maybe Greta will get Palin's reaction to this news. Sarha's not Michael's.

"Oh yeah I forgot, he's Malcolm X's progeny come to take us all to hell."

HA! Rez, as an old fan of Malcolm's, I have to say that this is kind of an attractive thought....

Anon -- Glad to see someone else started zoning listening to Norquist this morning.

Kinda like when the wildebeests stand around and watch the lions eating one of their own.

"http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/gobekli-tepe.html?c=y&page=1#

Fascinating article, Anon. I was especially interested in some of the comments by readers....also, thanks for the follow-up photo.

" Church of the Holy Sepulcher"

You are just a fountain of good info this morning, Anon. I've been to the Church of the Holy Sepulcher, and cannot picture the dustup!

"Bullies may actually enjoy the pain they cause others, a new study using brain scans suggests. "

Hmm -- this doesn't seem like news to me. Haven't we known that all along? In fact, some seem to thrive on it....

I just found out John Leonard died -

I think I need some comfort food.

just take another look at Ernest Borgnine in From Here to Eternity again......or certain "bully" posts on this comment section........no brain scans needed for that information..............nice to have science back it up, though................

"French recall couscous packets that explode like small bomb
European consumers have been asked to return thousands of ready-made couscous packets that swell and explode while being reheated."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/3410659/French-recall-couscous-packets-that-explode-like-small-bomb.html

Now there's a product flaw you think they might have noticed earlier.

"French recall couscous packets that explode like small bomb. European consumers have been asked to return thousands of ready-made couscous packets that swell and explode while being reheated."

Maybe a new kind of Pop Rocks....

WaPo article on death of John Leonard

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/06/AR2008110603896.html

Patsi -
When Saladin captured Jerusalem in 1187 , he gave the keys to the church to a Muslim family because the Christian's were fighting for who controlled the thing.
That family still as the keys, and they still open the thing everyday.

saladin.........a soldier of fortune in a savage land......

oh......no, that was Paladin......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7hcoyE-Bow&feature=related

Singles bars, he wrote, were "service stations of the libido."

but once described his job as "sorting the signals of an overheated publicity culture, manufacturing opinions instead of widgets."

About other writers, he was more concise. Gore Vidal, he wrote, "chooses merely to bite his betters on their kneecaps."

Rahm Emanuel on Face the Nation now. Schieffer is having a hard time pinning him down, but he's persistent. One thing seems clear--the transition will be conducted in Chicago ostensibly so it won't interefere with the current administration.

Emanuel sounds more like a press secretary than CofS. This will be an interesting period.

Sturg -
Thanks, my enduring remembrance of Richard Boone was stuck in the "Shootist", I had forgotten that fresh faced Boone from the 50's.

And it led to a clean copy of Nelson Riddle -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tj1Q59Zd55k

CofS ?

chief of staff

Highway Patrol Starring Broderick Crawford

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pO9uS5NRYI

We don't need no stink'n badges

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3YpdMxrIXg

"Paladin......"

Makes a man watchful, and a little lonely.....

Ok, wanna hear a beautiful song? No it's not "It's Ok to be Gay" but I can post that one again if you want.

This is Annie Haslam with her beautiful rendition of "Moonlight Shadow". She was the lead of the band Renaissance (in the 70s as I recall)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBs9yp47bMI

Anon---i also thank u for the Gobekli Tepe/first temple article
i agree with a comment that was made by one reader,,,,this would have been were the talking snake appeared to eve and take us down the road of endless penance and the confessional ( to me the very first government program of know the secrets of the people?? what could the fictitious eve wanted, she had paradise already?? A talking snake would come pretty handy right about now---no?

I don't think that this would have been the first temple-----i think that it might have been something very simple,made out of tree limbs,,,bamboo, and that we will never know the site of the very first temple--but nonetheless this is very exciting,,,i also that earlier temples will be found,,,tepe is to well thought out and build to me,,there has to be some that boulders were placed to create a gathering at the first temple, shaped boulder to me come after first experimenting with models???

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/unsettled-senate-business.html#comment-171329

But some of them really, really deserve to have their knees bit, and you have to enjoy someone who knows how to do it well.

Flatus...I watched that interview, and think Schieffer did not do a very good job. Long, rambling and sloppy questions followed by a touch of crankiness at the fact that Emanuel was so easily dancing around them without answering. Pretty bad interview.

Also, why all the focus on whether Obama is going to participate in the lame-duck session as a Senator? That seems like kind of a minor question to me. I doubt his vote will be needed to pass whatever plan is agreed upon, and his pulpit as president-elect gives him much more leverage to shape that plan than his seat on the Senate floor. Schieffer's fascination with that angle would be akin to obsessing over whether a major league baseball slugger still owns his old wiffle bat.

Obama should just resign his Senate seat if the national media can't manage to wrap their collective mind around the idea that this transition is going to look a bit different. This the first sitting Senator to be elected president since 1960.

i also think that earlier temples will be found---that should be

It twinges to realize that as soon as I read the words "young Richard Boone", that i actually remembered this series and even recalled the title of my favorite episode "She Walks In Beauty" about a girl with a club foot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpdYFtS693I

ET- how about Jo Stafford? Now that lady could SING.

Anon....one of the most eerily fascinating places I've ever been was to Nimrod's Fortress on Mt. Herman in the Golan Heights. (Built by a nephew of Saladin) It's long abandoned and because of being there, wandering alone, I absolutely understood what Hillary Clinton meant when she was "channeling" Eleanor Roosevelt in the White House. It felt like many unseen were there with me.

by special request

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2boHCNfbUD4

one a dj, always a dj... LOL

thinking about turkey yet? not the liquid feral kind. here's a link to entice. heritage turkeys taste better. at least get a fresh, free range store bought if you can't find a heritage.

http://www.heritageturkeyfoundation.org/

:)

I don't think that this would have been the first temple

Probably not, but it's the oldest found so far with a big budget.

Jamie -
The queen of the way back machine.

ET -
Jo Stafford - yes.

Patsi -
I'm a big fan of Saladin.

Now for something completely different -

Humble Pie - 30 Days In The Hole

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwWEoMM4PDY

patd -- what do you know about buying hams? After learning that most hog farmers are using hormones to fatten pigs three times as fast, I am pissed. (I'd been thinking that ham was tasting less and less like ham...and it's true, because of the growth cycle.)

Can you still buy hams that have been fattened naturally?

HIGH HOPES

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPT5UY_MaVo

Next time your found, with your chin on the ground
There a lot to be learned, so look around

Just what makes that little old ant
Think he.ll move that rubber tree plant
Anyone knows an ant, cant
Move a rubber tree plant

But hes got high hopes, hes got high hopes
Hes got high apple pie, in the sky hopes

So any time your gettin low
stead of lettin go
Just remember that ant
Oops there goes another rubber tree plant

patsi, this'll get you started.

http://www.localharvest.org/organic-pork.jsp

The Classics IV - Spooky

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0pEYEL83b8

Lard, I didn't hear it with the same ears. So, that means I'm going to have to listen to it again.

The conclusion seemed to be that it was a conscious decision to stay out of the process until they own it completely. That aspect of it could have been cleared up very quickly if Emanuel hadn't been so coy. I saw that as the basis for Schieffer's testiness.

Given the senatorial split in seats, it is probably best that Sen Obama not release his seat--never can tell what will happen. Separating himself from DC seems a reasonable accommodation to practicality.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/unsettled-senate-business.html#comment-171312

Sturge - Thank you for posting the Milgram Wiki. I watched a film on the Milgram experiment as part of an ethics class for the Sorenesen Institute for Political Leadership at UVA. I remember the absolute horror and dismay I felt as I watched subject after subject continuing to follow the directions to turn up the electroschock dial -- even as they heard screams of pain from the unseen "confederate subjects."

I was stunned to learn that 70% of the subjects continued o cause the pain they knew was wrong when challenged to do so by authorities. I pray that I will always be in the 30% that challenged authorities and have done my best to raise my children to question authority and speak truth to power.

patsi, ham

http://www.localharvest.org/store/search.jsp

Dusty Springfield - Spooky (1970)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibcv_nzDUsY

I am always adding videos and stuff on my facebook... CHeck it out...

You guys want to listen to an AMAZINGLY beautiful song? It is by Eliza Gilkyson. Her father was a famous composer/musician, probably best known in my generation as the composer of The Bare Necessities from The Jungle Book. Anyway Eliza is also a composer/singer...

She wrote this song "Calling All Angels"... it's beautiful I think... It's such a metaphor on how we have messed up so much and need to find our way.

http://www.inspirationline.com/EZINE/12NOV2007.htm

patsi,disregard ham link above....not the one i copied. just go to localharvest.org and search ham.

Patsi,

You may have your work cut out for you. I tried to google "no hormones ham united states" and came up with a whole lot of articles about the WTO sanctioning US meat due to hormone usage and a whole lot of "hormon free" sites all around the world except for the US.

You may have to go find a friend who still cures their own hams. Do you know Pat Conroy? I understand he sometimes gives hams to friends.

I even went to some very good ham places such as Holloway Hams that have excellent reputations, but there is nothing on their site to guarantee hormone free

http://www.hollowayhams.com/

Goldfinger

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7leX_BBcOA

It's the kiss of death from Mr. Goldfinger

jamie, here's one in oregon that sells heritage, hormone free ham

http://www.localharvest.org/farms/M7243

Duran Duran - Hungry Like The Wolf

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJRCE6e2xIg

Do-do do do, do do do, do do do, do do do, do do

Regarding that bully study: I had a kid named Jeff who bullied me most of the year in gym when I was in 8th grade. One day, during pool he got into an argument with a kid named Henry, who was tougher than him. Back in the lockeroom, Henry called out Jeff. Henry shoved Jeff into this huge guy named Pete. Pete shoved Jeff back into Henry, This went back and forth a few times. Jeff finally cried out, "STOP PUSHING ME!" His voice cracked, he was almost crying. This happened in front of all the guys in the lockeroom. In front of all the guys Jeff bullied. After that day in gym, Jeff never bullied anyone else for the rest of the year. Anyway, here's my video entry:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T02UDv7kmN0&feature=related

http://www.boingboing.net/2008/11/07/the-morning-after.html

Too funny,

ET- Have you ever heard of Freakwater? My old drunk friend, it's
good to see you again.
I can't believe they are going to charge that 8 yr old child as an adult.

"Think of the mess if SoetorObama is sworn in and then info surfaces that proves he's not Constitutionally eligible for POTUS.

Posted by: GORDO | November 8, 2008 11:28 PM"

____________________________________________

Gordo: It wouldn't make any difference. Mr. Bush -- who committed treason and who is mentally, morally and all other ways unfit for office -- was allowed to continue with his demented policies long after everyone recognized, knew and understood that his interests were pro-Bush and anti-American.

patd

I went through that site. They sell pork for local pick up and their farmers raise heritage breeds. There is a ham that is smoked for 20 hours. A good ham is cured for several days and then aged for several months up to two years.

http://extension.missouri.edu/explore/agguides/ansci/g02526.htm

Duran Duran - Is There Something I Should Know

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi5n7jbUbrI

Don't say you're easy on me
You're about as easy as a nuclear war

By the way .
What the hell is a Soetor ?

Pat,

I take it back they do have a hormone free ham. Paying $115 for a 15 pound ham is outside my normal budget. Probably explains why the hormone pork is in mass production and nitrate pollution causing runoff and algae blooms.

And the Saturday crowds at the Buena Vista Cafe.

The place was jammed as usual Saturday afternoon, strangers convivial at the five round wooden tables and along the weathered bar where 15 of 18 patrons lined up were drinking Irish coffee - the blend of coffee and whiskey topped by thick cream that has been the cafe's signature drink since Nov. 10, 1952.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/11/08/BAUR1411MT.DTL

sounds good doesn't ..perfect for a nice fall day!

Let the Games Begin

http://sarah-palin-2008.blogspot.com/2008/11/long-knives-are-out-and-fight-will-be.html

Sarah Palin loaded for Bear.

Anon

Soetor is the surname of Sen. Obama's stepfather. Gordo suffers under the delusion that a child using a stepparent's surname destroys their individual rights as a U.S. Citizen and that Sen. Obama is really still Philippino or something.

When confronted with the law he says it doesn't count because "Soetor/Obama" may have actually been born in Kenya instead of Hawaii and that there was some massive conspiracy 45 years ago in order to sneak in a muslim worshiping black president.

Gordo doesn't seem dangerous, so the men in white coats let him wander through the tin foil hat blogs at will and dump the gathered garbage here.

KGC

If you love Irish Coffee then the best place to read about while drinking a "God's Blessing" is Callahan's Cross Time Saloon courtesy of Spider Robinson. A love of really atrocious puns helps as well.

http://www.spiderrobinson.com/

Fleetwood Mac 'Station Man'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYqfHXlOGGY

Station Man
I've been waiting
Can you tell me
When we're leaving

Midnight train
Now is leaving

Engines screaming
Uh-huh, Uh-huh
Uh-huh, Uh-huh
Where I'm going I don't know
But you tell me I must go
When we're leaving I don't know
But you tell me now...

I see it's coming
And bringing something
This train of lovin'
I see it's coming
I hear it's running
This train of loving
From ages past...

Station Man
I've been waiting
Can you tell me
When we're leaving

Thanks Jamie -

GORDO -

Get Over It

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3ORwO5xDUE

It's like going to confession
every time I hear you speak
You're makin' the most of your losin' streak
Some call it sick, but I call it weak

You drag it around like a ball and chain
You wallow in the guilt; you wallow in the pain
You wave it like a flag, you wear it like a crown
Got your mind in the gutter, bringin' everybody down
Complain about the present and blame it on the past
I'd like to find your inner child
and kick its little ass

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/unsettled-senate-business.html#comment-171364

I don't like Hungry Like a Wolf anymore because there was this woman in Oregon who turned up the song full blast and then methodically shot each of her children. Elizabeth Diane Downs...

http://mylifeofcrime.wordpress.com/2006/10/11/downs-children-murder-51983-springfield-or/

Anon ---------------------

"By the way .
What the hell is a Soetor ?"

This question shows that you know almost nothing about BHO. You are not alone, so don't take this as a personal attack.

Lolo Soetoro, was Stanley Ann's (Dunham - mother) second husband. It's believed that BHO was adopted by Lolo and his name was legally changed to Barry Soetoro.

BHO lived in Indonesia from about the age six to ten. At ten, he returned to HI to live with his grandparents.
--------------
Indonesian School Record:

Name - Barry Soetoro

Nationality - Indonesian

Religion - Islam

http://countusout.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/barrysoetoro.jpg?w=340&h=427

patd -- Thanks for that site....My son and daughter always want to know what I need for the Christmas dinner. I may say, "You can just pay for the ham." And then I'll hand them the bill after dinner.

Morning all... or afternoon…

What a great day in Craig’s Home Boy hood.....
Travel suggestions if you come to Orlando area...

Canveral National Seashore..

Went to the Canaveral Sea Shore early this AM to catch a pic of the Shuttle on the launch pad as the sun was rising -(OK i missed the early sun)
It is striking when you look from Playalinda beach the contrasts - from pristine Florida nature and all natural beauty - it is also known as a nice nude beach -- to one of the most powerful machines of Mankind.

Then back downtown to join worship and a lively discussion following the election.

Here is some good news... not unexpected either...

Obama reviews Bush orders on stem cells, drilling

By STEPHEN OHLEMACHER
Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) -- President-elect Obama's transition chief said Sunday the incoming administration is looking to reverse President Bush's executive orders on stem cell research, oil and gas drilling and other matters.

John Podesta said the president can use such orders to move quickly without waiting for Congress to act, highlighting the extraordinary powers a president can wield beyond signing legislation approved by Congress. Podesta said people should expect Obama to use those powers to reverse many policies of the Bush administration.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/O/OBAMA?SITE=ORROS&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

GORDO - and others
Here is a link to some great Pics of Pres Elect Obama - the one I did not vote for but the Pres Elect I will now work to support - But still give my opinion - and hope that the one that shows up finds a way to heal and serv all. And will keep the respect.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/politics/orl-chi-obama-all-pg,0,4846465.photogallery

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/unsettled-senate-business.html#comment-171159

GORDO, isn't there a nice freeway you can go play on?

NEW THREAD

Folks

They don't give hormones to pigs. Or at least as of 2002 they didn't and googling doesn't turn up any hormone use except contolling ovulation in sows and guilts
So all pork is hormone free. The issue with pork is the constant use of atibiotics used in the feed. And the high stress of conventional confinement operations. Also, environmental problems.

Jack