Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Oh, come on how about a serious subject like how Chris Matthews can call himself ajournalist when he says the following:

CHRIS MATTHEWS: Yeah, well, you know what? I want to do everything I can to make this thing work, this new presidency work, and I think that --

JOE SCARBOROUGH: Is that your job? You just talked about being a journalist!

MATTHEWS: Yeah, it is my job. My job is to help this country.

Matthews wasn't done with his odd new job description . . . An incredulous Scarborough kept pressing, astonished at such a complete 180 from Matthews's repeated insistence during the Bush presidency that he had to hold the government accountable.

SCARBOROUGH: Your job is the make this presidency work?

MATTHEWS: To make this work successfully. This country needs a successful presidency.

Dear Wife sent this today. i think she got it from a Donna Brazelle mailer. There was a great pic with it.

Some old country humor.

. . .The old rancher said, "Well, ya know, Palin is a 'Post Turtle'". Not being familiar with the term, the doctor asked him what a 'post turtle' was.

The old rancher said, "When you're driving down a country road you come across a fence post with a turtle balanced on top, that's a 'post turtle". The old rancher saw the puzzled look on the doctor's face so he continued to explain.

"You know she didn't get up there by herself, she doesn't belong up there, and she doesn't know what to do while she's up there, and you just wonder what kind of dumb-ass put her up there to begin with".

I never called Tweety a journalist! Calling him a sexually repressed man with absolutely no manners at all is starting on the right track. Men like him and Fred Barnes always make me think they probably undress at night in the closet with the lights out.

craig c really does die his hair
has a 10'000 dollar a year hair budget
takes a deduction on his taxes for it
' work related expenses''
how do i know this for sure
anonymous sources of course
it has to be true

LOL @ bethy.... ROFL

Rez -- the post turtle story has been used regarding a boat load of people. Old tired joke. Of course, Donna Brazile (such a powerhouse campaigner for Gore) might be one herself.

" Men like him and Fred Barnes always make me think they probably undress at night in the closet with the lights out."

Bethy! At my advanced age I thought there was nothing left to gross me out. But the thought of Chris Matthews or Fred Barnes naked just did it! (Even with the lights off...) ROFL!

jack wrote -

But I tend to not read long posts
-----------------

Not just GORDO, but many ... I use the Pogo Loop Hole though.

Jon Stewart -
"Palin has been tagged, and released back into the wild."

Al Gore group urges Obama to create U.S. power grid

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/news/2008/11/al_gore_group_urges_obama_to_c.php

From the article -
"Modernize transmission infrastructure so that clean electricity generated anywhere in America can power homes and businesses across the nation," the alliance said in a statement.

----------------------
The above is what Pickens has been arguing for this year. This is a lynchpin of his plan.

I wonder if Boone has written Gore a note ?

Remember Guilford County, North Carolina, the place where Sarah Palin said she was happy to be in "Real America"?

Well, the North Carolina numbers are now all in, and guess what: Obama won this "Real American" county -- by a landslide.

Yep -- Guilford County voted 59%-41% for Obama.

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/11/palins_real_america_voted_big.php

Rita -- If you are up and around, here is a Nashville Scene quick (and funny) piece about the two Tennessees that you and I were talking about yesterday.

http://blogs.nashvillescene.com/pitw/2008/11/news_flash_west_tennessee_goes.php

How Good Was 538?

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/11/how-good-was-53.html

Nate Silver owned this election on the polling front: one young guy with a background in baseball stats beat out the mainstream media in a couple of months.

Anon -- I still don't understand why anybody is aghast at Palin's Real America, Socialism or the rest of the rhetoric. That talk started with Reagan freaks -- as did the religious right. This is old stuff.

Morning Joe doesn't like the chief of staff pick ..... bad message to the Republicans . toooo partisan etc. etc.

Joe's pick :
A bowl of Jell-o from Luby's Cafeteria. Everybody likes Jell-o.

So---Sarah Palin thinks Africa is a country and Obama thinks there are 57 states--maybe both of them need to brush up on their Geography.

Patsi -

Let me diagram it for you .... the point of the link, is showcase that in the very county where Palin make the remark about "Real America". Obama carried by 18 points.

No more no less.

"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

"Joe's pick :
A bowl of Jell-o from Luby's Cafeteria. Everybody likes Jell-o."

ROFL.

"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

Ah -- but is it a 5-cent cigar or a Cuban? There's the rub.

ubns makes a good point. Obama's was just a misspeak. And nobody really knows what Palin really said. Methinks a lot of Repub operatives are scrambling for a scapegoat. Also, a lot of them wouldn't want Palin as the new titular head of the party. So it's a slash and burn.

For the record, Palin governed Alaska as a populist, not an evangelical. Now, of course, she's been boxed in, labeled and will probably remain the radical the GOP needed to rally the base.

Patsi -

If you're rubbing it, it's not a cigar.

Horsey can't let go of Palin either -

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/horsey/viewbydate.asp?id=1857

OK, anon -- what is your reaction to this.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/horsey/viewbydate.asp?id=1855

It sure looks like somebody leaving some folks in the dust....I'm just talking about a possibly unintended impression left....

http://www.breitbart.tv:80/html/214673.html

Hey Bow and all.
Here's the video of Tweety(Matthews) describing his new job description! Ha Ha...Never thought he was journalist anyways..Just another pretender....

The Shakespearean quality of this election just keeps rolling on -

Barack Obama will be sworn in as president just days before the 200th anniversary of Abraham Lincoln's birth, and his inauguration theme will reflect the timing: "A New Birth Of Freedom," a phrase from the Gettysburg Address.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/06/obama-inauguration-theme_n_141695.html

Don't know why people are surprised about Palin not knowing Africa was a continent. Her life has made it clear that even though she is bright and opportunistic that she has little real respect for education.

She has a ready knack for stringing words together or reading them off a prompter with a great presentation. Those are great talents if you are hiring a sales person, probably not so much in a Vice President.

My big question is Scarborough going to whine and temper for the next four years? Poor abused Republicans wa wa wa. Get over it.

Now having picked on that side of the aisle, Joe was right about Tweety. He needs to make up his mind if he is a journalist or a cheerleader. He didn't acquit himself well during the primaries. Maybe it's time for a long vacation.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/cmon-tina-one-more-palin-turn.html#comment-170295

Jamie
I agree regarding Matthews! I keep thinking what if it was President Elect Clinton...I think his job description would be a bit different then...Joe whining about R.E. typical...

Patsi -
The characters in the foreground would be run away slaves, they would be the past, as in the "bad old days". As in putting the past behind you, and moving on, the signs are pointing backwards, Obama saying thanks and moving forward. Note they are in the dark shadow of the past, and he is moving into the light, and a future in the White House.

But given the fact that many of us can't find Africa, or Iraq on a map, I can see how a lot of folks will miss read Horsey's intent.

http://www.rr.com/view/content/story.cfm?storyId=6164420&newsgroup=9000&view=HOME

"No hidden white bias seen in the presidential race"

I watched Greta yesterday evening. Main topic was Palin and the attacks. The most credible guest was a Democratic journalist who spent the campaign following her around.

That journalist said the charges against Palin were so much hogwash--that she was a bright person in touch with the issues and nice to be around.

If anyone has not realized that elements of the Repug group of insiders enjoy character assassination, especially when it involves one of their own, as a favorite pastime, then those people weren't around in 2000 and didn't pay attention to SC.

"My job is to help this country."

did we just hear tweety announce his candidacy? did a hat just get thrown in the ring? perhaps a beanie with a propellor on it?

Horsey doesn't do positive stuff as well as his satire.
During the Sarcasm discussion I looked up the word , it comes from the Greek meaning "to tear flesh".
Horsey can really tear flesh.

Guten Morgan

KO - KO and Tweety !! Be gone with them....

Posted by: Flatus Author Profile Page | November 7, 2008 7:42 AM

Excellent! Lawrence ODonnell is an ass.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/cmon-tina-one-more-palin-turn.html#comment-170300

Flatus - On Target !!

The battle for the control of the imploded Republican party...

Palin is not as polished to cover the gaf as Obama. And Obama did not have insiders that went after him

This is from a Chicago Tribune article:

"Dunham was three months shy of her 19th birthday when Obama was born. But subsequent acts of Congress relaxed the requirement to five years in the U.S., including just two years after the age of 14, meaning Dunham could have been 16 and still qualified even if Obama was born in another country, Volokh said. Congress made the law retroactive to 1952, doubly covering Obama."
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-birth-certificate-30-oct30,0,1742172.story
--------------------
This is from a U.S. Department of State site:

Acquisition of U.S. Citizenship By a Child Born Abroad

"Birth Abroad to One Citizen and One Alien Parent in Wedlock: A child born abroad to one U.S. citizen parent and one alien parent acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under Section 301(g) INA provided the citizen parent was physically present in the U.S. for the time period required by the law applicable at the time of the child's birth. (For birth on or after November 14, 1986, a period of five years physical presence, two after the age of fourteen is required. For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, a period of ten years, five after the age of fourteen are required for physical presence in the U.S. to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child."

http://travel.state.gov/law/info/info_609.html
--------------------
If what the Chicago Tribune wrote is correct (I have not been able to confirm.), the State Department needs to update it's site.

Matthews was in the Peace Corps in Africa. I think Obama was stirred those old days in him, idealism etc.

Matthews is a bloviator.

Patd -
Bingo

Well, the past few days of revelations about Palin go beyond perfect fodder for an SNL skit. The stories/her behavior, being already cartoonish, it might be kind of pointless.

They're no "log" or "ball-in-a-cup" but....the "lowly stick" may be what kids get for Christmas in this economy.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081107/ap_on_fe_st/odd_toy_hall_of_fame

Reading a great book: Death - A Life It's the "autobiography" of death and it reads like a Monty Python sketch.

I think Tweety is just passionate.

tonyb39
Horsey needs to do one on laying the "Bradly Effect" in a grave.

Ironic point post election

The primary problem with Balance sheets going sour - is tied to bad loans, which is tied to poor fiscal policy driven by negative inncentives and complacent behavior - directly related to the position of Barack Obama.

He gets to clean up a mess that maybe he did not cause but cause is consistent with his behavior with Freddie and Fannie

Lesson Learned?

I will say one thing for Tweety, he put a fork in Rove yesterday. Karl was #1 on his 2008 losers list.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/cmon-tina-one-more-palin-turn.html#comment-170310

Anon
Agreed!

Possible positive impact?

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_bianchi/2008/11/will-barack-oba.html

What about Women?

Good morning all, Tony thanks for the shout out last night.

Flatus- Hear Greta was ticked last night. I find all those comments hurtful, regardless of her Party affiliation , its just women bashing.

Matthews is trying to set himself up to run for the senate in Pa
I hope he runs --he will lose and lose big and it will be great!

Farmers see money in cow manure

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/331/story/55402.html

"Black turnout for Obama doomed gay marriage in Calif"

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/55468.html.

Jack

Jack- read 7 out of 10 Blacks voted down Prop. 8. A little ironic isn't it?

And Barack is one that also supports the one women /one man as found in Prop 8 and Amendment 2 in Florida...

"What the exit polls say is that religion trumps party affiliation when it comes to social issues," said Mark DiCamillo, director of the Field Poll. The exit poll was done by Edison Media Research.

It also trumped racial identification. While Obama publicly backed the "No on Prop. 8" effort, African American voters had no trouble voting overwhelmingly for the man who will be the nation's first black president and then voting 70 percent in favor of Prop. 8, exit polls showed.

It was a grim evening Tuesday in San Francisco for supporters of same-sex marriage, who saw Prop. 8 move into the lead minutes after the polls closed and stay ahead all night. Except in the Bay Area and a smattering of other counties, the measure was approved in three-fourths of the state's 58 counties, including Democratic strongholds such as Los Angeles and Sacramento counties.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/11/06/MNH413UTUS.DTL

This is not a new relevation. In San Francisco there has always been uneasy relationships between the black churches and the gay community. There are also fissures on the issue of choice. The Amos Brown/Lumpkin dustup being the most famous.

It's not woman bashing, it's the Republicans in hand to hand combat. As someone said last night, the most telling thing about the whole flap,( and it is a flap ) was the following term :
"Wasilla hillbillies" by someone in the Republican hierarchy.
Every 4 years they use a prop like Palin and Joe the plumber, and after the election they dump em', and get back to screwing the country for the benefit of the top 5% of the population.

ANTIGAY REMARKS
In 1992, San Francisco mayor Frank Jordan appointed the Reverend Eugene Lumpkin (pastor of the Ebenezer Baptist Church) to the city's Human Rights Commission. The following year Lumpkin told a newspaper reporter, "It's sad that people have AIDS and what have you, but it says right here in scripture that the homosexual lifestyle is an abomination against God." Two weeks later, on a television talk show, the pastor refused to disavow an Old Testament passage that says a man who has sex with another man should be stoned to death. That same day, the mayor fired Lumpkin, saying the pastor had "crossed the line from belief to behavior to advocacy" and "implied that he condoned physical harm." Lumpkin took his case to federal court, saying that the First Amendment gave him the right to express his religious beliefs.

Free speech, or not free speech?

VERDICT: Not free speech, according to a federal court. While Lumpkin had the right to express his views, "the First Amendment does not assure him job security when he preaches homophobia" while serving as an ambassador for human rights. The U.S. Supreme Court agreed.

People are never going to be totally happy with election results. Especially on the issues. I thought it was fair in this country if things got put up for a vote. I mean, either your side wins or it loses. Majority rules. It may not always be right, but that's how it's always been, hasn't it?

I'm surprised that Craig is still stuck on Palin, and not commenting on the real political news from yesterday.

Emanuel to be Obama's White House chief of staff

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/55432.html

Jack

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/cmon-tina-one-more-palin-turn.html#comment-170329

Corey

It is called "tyranny of the majority" Something the founding fathers feared as much as a king.

Jack

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/cmon-tina-one-more-palin-turn.html#comment-170326

KCG - Which Barack " Obama publicly backed the "No on Prop. 8" effort" ??

That was not his message in this area --

Again it dependeds on who is asking and who was listening when it comes to Barack with answers -- as Craig has said all along- not much real vetting.

Which Barack will show up?

I agree with much of what has been said in this thread about Matthews as a "journalist". I tuned to MSNBC when I settled in for watching Election Night, and I intended to stick with it throughout the evening. But I absolutely could not stand the fact that Matthews just sat there on his butt and talked, talked, talked about what HE thought of everything while there was so much actual news going on that was going unreported. It was unbelievable, and it drove me to the other channels by 7 p.m. -- and I never came back.

I'm hoping he's reached the end of the road in his TV career now that the election is over. Let him run for Senate, and let the people of Pennsylvania decide.

Anon- It is women bashing, which both Repubs & Dems were guilty of during the election.

Anon - you need to add screwing the country for the benefit of the top 5% of the population - NOW ADD THAT PAY THE BILL

Again nothing wrong with sharing but come now, be a little more respectful of those that do pay their way.

And I will agree if they are not paying their way by job creation or tax - then go get em

Ping
Obama's position on prop 8 never changed. I think you are deliberately conflating statements and drawing a false conclusion.

I suspect the republicans are worried that Obama will govern like Bush/Rowe.
The Emanuel appointment seems to back it up.
What goes around comes around.

Jack

Corey...I'm still holding out for the 538-0 result you predicted one day in my lifetime. Then everybody will be happy. :)

KCG - I am not that familiar with Prop 8, so let’s place it with Amendment 2 in Florida. Barack and Biden both publicly supported the facts of the Amendment when asked about the definition of Marriage and that it should be a State issue.

This was a factor for many people – and consistent with Obama and Biden believes.

The People of the States have spoken..

LardassLIb... You going to the DP game tonight?

Ping

The people speak a lot but they are often influenced by hate

So you have laws in Fla that are based on hatred --must make you very proud --

Are you afraid your wife will leave you for a lesbian?

So Katherine what happens to the couples in CA who were recently married? Do they get civil union rights?

Lardo

I haven't watched MSNBC in months. In fact the local cable company moved them and I don't even remember the channel they are on.
I watched CNN. They got off to a slow start but later after Ohio was declared they loosened up and did some good analysis.

Jack

Jack, kinda like several years ago in my bowling league. One guy on my team Larry was the league secretary. At our bowling banquet we nominated people for league officer positions. A friend of mine named Scott ran against Larry for league secretary. The vote went like this: All in favor Larry as league secretary, raise your hands? All 5 guys on our team raised our hands, nobody esle in our league did. All in favor of Scott, raise your hands. About 45 people raised their hands. A lot of people thought Larry was old and cranky, so they didn't vote him. Larry was our teammate, so we did. He lost badly.

"Matthews is trying to set himself up to run for the senate in Pa"

kgc, 2 yrs of torture until that election.

maybe a propellored beanie isn't the hat that i saw in the ring. maybe it was a fake halo from old halloween costume... no, guess not, that wouldn't fit over the donkey ears.

I've been thinking about the whole Prop 8 issue, and I think the gays are making a mistake in using an old template, that is going into court, and using that as a venue for change.

The reason they're losing this issue is because America still believes that this is a choice people make. That one morning when your 12 you wake-up and say, "Gee, that gay life style looks swell, I think I'll join."

It seems to me that the issue is going to be won on an press release one morning announcing that the gene that makes the choice long before we're born has been found, or that a mother's production of XYZ hormone in the womb when we're a 16 cell zygote makes that choice.

People don't choose to be drunks, they don't choose to men, they don't choose to be women, they don't chose their parents.

It seems to me that the debate needs to be reframed, and the first step is get rid of the phrase "Gay life style", how that gets wrestled away from Dr. Dobson, and that crowd, I have no idea.

(Please hurl rocks at my screen now)

KCG - ? Why do you and Brain twist this into an attack of Hate yourselfs -- Please....

But Sadly you are correct Hate does play into choice like this election - what was one of the big motivations to vote Barack???? HATE of George Bush - Not favor of Barack.

Oldseahag

It isn't clear what is going to happen. The legal concensus is you can't amke the amendment retroactive so already married couples will remain married. Other couples will still have the protection of domestic partner laws.

There is a precedent that says you can't use hate and fear as the basis for a constitutional amendment-- I think the opponents of hate are hoping that still holds true.

What is wrong with people who continue to interfere in other people's choices from their sex lives, marriage and choice of intoxicants. Don't you have anything better to do?

"Note they are in the dark shadow of the past, and he is moving into the light, and a future in the White House.

But given the fact that many of us can't find Africa, or Iraq on a map, I can see how a lot of folks will miss read Horsey's intent."

On the other hand, that past wasn't Obama's, Anon. So maybe it means to leave that history in the shadows...(You said "us" -- so I'll tell you right now I am sorry you can't find Africa on the map.)

Ping
you are full of crap
no one is twisting this into hate --just pointing out the basis for this action

Yes everyone hates George Bush. He is the worst president ever and the question is why did Republicans enable him --even when you knew he sucked.

And let's get real. Does anybody not see how lame a people we are? We have NO idea what Palin said about Africa. Yet this is now considered fact. God, no wonder Bush became POTUS and Gore was hung as the inventor of the internet.

"If anyone has not realized that elements of the Repug group of insiders enjoy character assassination, especially when it involves one of their own, as a favorite pastime, then those people weren't around in 2000 and didn't pay attention to SC."

Exactly. And it now is a Democratic trait as well.

Does it matter anymore what Palin said? Or this just people making sure we don't hear from her again on the national stage? I'm more interested in what Obama has to say right now.

"What about Women?"

They are back in the shadows in that Horsey cartoon....

KGC, thanks and yeah it is kinda of a weird thing to worry about, but I still can't believe the impact of this issue in the 2004 election

GMA
Is having Diane Sawyer doing a long informercial for Avon.

LOL

Jack

The ruling is already in place according to the news - The Marrage that has taken place will stand.

Anon - hit it on the head !! (Ouch)
I think this is his point
Stop making it about Sex Life ! Sadly some of the Gay community keep throwing that out there and I think they are the vocal minority.

Compassion should rule the day and understanding - and the Radical hate elements of both sides do not help resolve.

So please stop the attacks of those that may be in support of the rights.

None should be given or taken away due to sexual preference - unless a child molester, or predator --. etc.

I hope all the rabid Obama supporters have left their basements and are volunteering to help the new president elect. Posting on a blog isn't doing anything and repeating lies about Palin demonstrates your pettiness.

Not much change or hope. Just political horsesh-t

It looks like the rabid Obama supporters are issueless.
Every important point has been thrown off the bus --getting out of Iraq...never mind; restoring the constitution...later baby, attacking Pakistan,,,,let's go...healthcare we don't want to make the same mistakes as the Clintons.

KCG - take a pill

Job losses for Oct - 240,00

Job losses in August and September turned out to be much deeper. Employers cut 127,000 positions in August, compared with 73,000 previously reported. A whopping 284,000 jobs were axed in Sept, compared with the 159,000 jobs first reported.

Tell us about Fundamentals Ping.

"One is starting to think she wasn't picked because they thought she was the best person for the job. "

Of course she was. HER job was to rally the base. And that she did. Once McCain realized that HE couldn't rally independents, the ugly shit started.

She did exactly what a VP candidate is supposed to do -- go on the attack so the presidential candidate can stay somewhat clean.

Take a pill?

Nice advice from someone who spews factless drivel straight from republican blast faxs

KCG
And read the polls - and Look at Barack's smart campaign -

Attach McCain to Bush if even not true on many issues.

It was brilliant knowing that for any Rep it will be hard to get elected.

Barack outspends by one of the largest margins,has the best ground campaign in history, against a party that should lose as Complacent Bush allowed liberal fiscal policy.

And he only gets 52% !!!

I understand now your anger

And I want Barack to be a success

Corey, what matters is the way she is treated by the press and the liberties they take when speaking of women, and also interesting to watch the Repubs angle for the future. Some want her as a future leader, others don't (heard someplace that Romney is behind the slams), and some are just pointing fingers.

Pinger -- not going to the game, but will be keeping my fingers crossed at home. I'm kinda worried about this one.

Jack -- I ended up using CNN as my "base camp" on Election Night too, and was fairly happy with it. I switched back and forth between that and "regular" NBC, which actually was reporting news.

As mad as MSNBC made me during the primaries, I stuck with them for the sole reason that I knew they would be reporting on the prez election each morning when I got on my stationary bike. Gotta have that politics fix while riding the bike.

"Never thought he was journalist anyways..Just another pretender...."
Posted by: tonyb39 | November 7, 2008 7:17 AM

Hey Tony,
I don't think he's a pretender so much as he is delusional. He takes himself very seriously and I really think he wants to do the right thing (though usually misguided). He's had this thing for Obama since the beginning, and it sounds like it isn't going to go away any time soon. Chris does have his good moments. :)

"That journalist said the charges against Palin were so much hogwash--that she was a bright person in touch with the issues and nice to be around." Flatus

"And let's get real. Does anybody not see how lame a people we are? We have NO idea what Palin said about Africa. Yet this is now considered fact.' Patsi

Thanks for saying that Flatus and Patsi.

Ping
Having read your posts for a while, I rather doubt you understand much of anything. Your slavish devotion to the Republican party keeps you tethered to ideas that hven't worked in half a century.

I am angry. But I doubt you have a clue.

mornin' all.

jack, yep the FFs feared the tyranny of the majority - and formed a government that allows it to occur, with certain checks and balances available to the minority party. In the Senate the Reps still have enough votes to sustain a filibuster (which could change by Jan. 20 depending on the AK & MN results). Well, actually, that's about all they have right now. Considering how little the FFs trusted the voters, they must be scratching their heads wondering how they could have tweaked the system they set up to prevent this awful possibility from occurring.

XR, how's your forehead this morning? Mine is sore from beating it against the wall for the past month. Gordo is beyond reasoning. He states his opinions and the opinions of others who blog on wingnut sites as fact, he refuses to recognise the legal standards that are applicable and ignores the fact that with the exception of the BC controversy that's been concocted that the documents that would resolve the other issues he's raised are available to him or his champions as part of the public record, he relies on the fact that filing a case is very easy to suggest that the fact that one (more, actually) is filed establishes that there is merit to the assertions underlying it, puts his faith in poor lawyers, then ignores the fact that their failures may actually reflect a belief by the courts that the suits lack the merit he presupposes, he evades central questions while accusing those who point out infirmaties in his arguments of doing the same and he repeats his own conclusions ad nauseum. I could go on, but I won't. Unless he puts up something that I haven't seen before or responded to, I'm not playing anymore.

Well, I see the jobs report is as bad as was forecast, well, worse when the revised Sept. numbers are factored in.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/08/business/economy/08econ.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

No big surprise that retail sales were in the tank - except Walmart.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/07/business/07retail.html?hp

The only questions remaining are how deep this will be and how long it will last. Everyone should drop George a line thanking him for his wonderful stewardship of the economy.

Hi Sea,
I checked out your site, and now I just have to decide what to try first. The brown sugar fudge sounds so good!

Is your shopping cart in yet? Maybe you should ask Craig if he can link you on his blog roll.??

Palin was never picked to appeal to Clinton voters
that is craptastic fantasy from reporters in the tank for Obama
She was picked to rally the rightwing base and that is what she did. Anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot

Patsi -
If you have a problem with Horsey cartoons go reg. at the P.I. site and let him know. There's a real fruit salad over there , you can be one of the seedless grapes.

Pogo

This jobs report is nothing compared to what it is going to look like after the failed Christmas season and all the retailers go out of business

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/cmon-tina-one-more-palin-turn.html#comment-170364

Anon - you seem to be very intellectual and very proficient in your writing. The fundamentals are strong - but Consequences when you break the fundamental rules of sound fiscal policy.

Then why do you not keep following the facts?

All things you point to are correct- you just stop in your analysis to keep following what could be sound logic.

The Primary cause to the financial crisis is BAD BALANCE SHEETS – Assets lost value…

Why – Just read the NYTimes, WSJ, Forbes…..

The more defensive this group gets to the facts that others point out and the slams and slurs are typical of what some call erratic liberal behavior… opps – I call it predictable.

Sadly many will now claim not to be Liberal? Why – to those that do stand up to the factual elements of Liberal – Thank you. I do not think LIberal makes a Bad Person - just Bad Policy

Ye Protest to much….

"Are you afraid your wife will leave you for a lesbian?"

ROFL! I don't think Ping was necessarily saying that he was a foe of gay marriage.

However, here's a story about a guy losing his wife to a lesbian. A lesbian friend of mine wrote one of the biggest crossover love songs of the 1990's. She wrote it about her music publisher's wife. By the time she finished the song, the wife had left the publisher for my friend. Did the publisher wring his hands over his lost wife? Nope, he ran out and got the song cut by a superstar and all concerned made a pile of money.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/cmon-tina-one-more-palin-turn.html#comment-170340

Lardo, I wouldn't get your hopes up. Even though PE Obama won with a 6% margin, we are sure to see one of those maps with all the counties that didn't vote for him colored in red. Even a 50 State victory would have huge red blotches.

If won't quite be the blue coast red center map, but darn close.

KGC -- What is the legal position regarding the Mormon Church using so much money on a political issue? Couldn't their tax exemption be in jeopardy?

Patsi

http://www.mormonsstoleourrights.com/

There is a group going after them. I don't think the leadership of the No on prop 8 side is involved.

KCG - lavish support of Rep Party? What are you reading???
I take each issue one at a time..

KCG- Do you vote straight ticket ?

I do not...

And I support Gay Rights ..... Just not on the basis of sexual preference. It needs to be viewed in Human Relation terms...
So take a breath ......

One issue voters as usual no facts to back up that bullshit statement

Of course being a no issue voter is the default position of someone who has no foundation of any kind

Ping
take a pill

" I thought Palin was picked because McCain was hoping he could get the psycho PUMA vote. "

Then you are an idiot. Without her he wouldn't have had the religious Repugs at all. It really would have been a landslide.

Sock drawer-

If you scroll up to my 6:08 post you'll find out my issue, and then there's another one about cow shit being turned into natural gas.

So there's my issues new wires, and cow shit.

"If you have a problem with Horsey cartoons go reg. at the P.I. site and let him know. There's a real fruit salad over there , you can be one of the seedless grapes."

This is the new left --question a couple of cartoons and be stoned. God a'mighty. Dems. Repubs. Two sides of the same coin now.

Hate to see two of my favorite posters in a fight over Bush.

Bush is the bad guy here. And you can't link all Republicans to him. If we could channel all the bad feelings to the guy that deserves them all, then maybe we could move on.

KCG -- Thanks - I did..... Kinda chocked on the way down....

Love ya KCG --
I gotta go to my - evil capitalistic impacted by consequences of bad fiscal policy allowed by the weak link Bush -Working world....

Best to all - check back later...

Obama is president elect for two days and the apologists are already making excuses for his leaving them behind.

"But hey if the myopic one issue voters want to defend Palin go for it, no skin of my nose. Just shows what sexists you all really are, putting gender above competence. "

The above just shows what a lack of critical thinking skills look like.

"There isn't much difference between the religious right and puma, they both vote from a position of hate. "

Give it a rest.

Farmer and entrepreneur David Albers is among those using technology to boost revenue at his 2,800-cow dairy and that of many others.

Albers, who spoke at the first Farming Clean Energy Conference held at Southern California Edison's AgTAC Center on Wednesday, is president of BioEnergy Solutions, a company that builds facilities to extract methane gas from cow manure.

Unlike other systems that use the gas to power farm buildings, Albers' company collects it, processes it, then pumps it into a pipeline to be sold to Pacific Gas & Electric Co.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/331/story/55402.html

Ping

Have a good capitalist day :)
Remember the Ron Wyden health care plan it's a good one.

OSH, I don't think it's right either. I never jumped on that bandwagon. I just thought we should be talking the issues that Obama is going to be dealing with now, instead continually bringing up Palin.

" both vote from a position of hate. "

This, from the primary hate distributor here.

KCG and Ping .... XOXOXOXO

Now out the door

When the media turns on Obama, the true believers will be squealing like the pigs they are but for now they are happy wallowing in the mud of the media.

I would even defend YOU against distortions.

And that's "Ms-sy" to you, pal.

KC, I agree with both of your posts (about Palin and the retail collapse) - but as the Oct numbers show, the retailers are not waiting for the Christmas season collapse.

Ping, what people here say or believe about the economy is of little importance - we have opinions, but they are just that. Sound fiscal policy? That's what Republicans have called for after the bubbles their profligate spending while acting as liberals while they claimed conservatism when they were in the WH built. (e.g., see, Reagan, and now Bush). Too bad their followers belive their words in stead of their lying eyes. And I know that historically Dems have done the same thing, only post Vietnam they (well, Clinton) have exercised fiscal restraint. Fact is, you may be right that sound fiscal policy could have prevented, or at least lessened, the current disaster, but how typical to call on Dems to clean up the mess Reps have left. Even that balance sheet issue you correctly identify is tied at least in part to a dollar weakended by foreign ownership of U.S. assets and debt. But I predict the fiscal restraint you'd like to see it ain't gonna happen, and there are sound arguments against it in the current economic climate. My money is on Obama following the advice Krugman has laid out in his column today (oh, and it is also on green energy - I think Pickens knows a good thing to invest in in the energy field).

"they are happy wallowing in the mud of the media."

I don't think that's mud. :)

This is a great post on the economic policy issues.
http://oxdown.firedoglake.com/diary/1531

"Shorter Krugman: "Ignore the Village trolls; go for a new New Deal. It's good economics."

Hey Patsi, Don't crawl down into that hole he lives.

We need you to be your usual intelligent, optimistic, clever self.

Off Subject...but has anyone been able to find any information on the precentage of recent college grads that are able to obtain full time jobs? Loans + Failing Economy is an abysmal formula.

Thanks

Pogo
Cal voteres rejected the Pickens plan but it isn't clear why. There was another ballot measure dealing with alternative energy which was poorly drafted and I think people were just in the mood to vote no when they weren't sure. Also the Pickens plan would have required a big expenditure from the state.

But having said that....energy should be part of the new economic plan since the high cost of oil has been a big contributor to our current economic problems. We built out economy on cheap oil and now it is gone.

question a couple of cartoons and be stoned

Na Patsi -
I'm not throwing stones , and you ain't questioning cartoons .

You're pickin' a fight . I see that from under my rock, along with Alaska, Africa, Patagonia, the Panama Canal Zone, the Cape Verde' Islands, and the last scraps of the British Empire.

Luv you Patsi........You're the Bright spot. :)

kc,

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/cmon-tina-one-more-palin-turn.html#comment-170381

It could. Depends on a bunch of factors. Assume they've crossed the line as many non profits do, and the question is whether IRS wants to pursue that. Maybe the next IRS, not this one.

Luv you Patsi........You're the Bright spot. :) Chloe

I'd like to associate myself with this remark

Pogo
What is the first thing you would like Obama to do? Others?

If I understood Amendment 2 correctly any rights that a married man and women had would no longer apply under civil unions.

The American Taliban is forcing their beliefs on the rest of Americans who do not carry those same beliefs.

As to Fannie and Freddy, they do not loan money to buy houses. They buy mortgages made by banks and brokers who were greedy and Wall Street pushed 531 Trillion Dollars worth of bad paper into the Global Economy which is now destroying economy here at home and around the world.

Also only 14 % (don't remember were I read it about 1/6th.) of bad loans were made by CRA banks. All the rest were made by unregulated institutions which the Republicans deregulated.

On another note on Morning Joe this morning he complained about Rohm being named as Chief Of Staff in the Obama Administration saying for someone who said he was going to be a uniter this was a bad choice.

He seems to forget that His President ran as a uniter and instead he divided our country more than at any other time except the Civil War. Even turning the rest of the World against us.

Though in the end he did unite American citizens of all races and genders to firmly reject him and the Republican Policies to elect Senator Obama as America's next President.

However, until Senator Obama is officially sworn in Bush can further destroy our Country by starting another War or instituting a false flag attack within the United States so he can declare Martial Law when the American people stand up to take our Country and Constitution back.

KC, I'm not following Pickens lockstep, just following his lead in broad strokes - plus I think it's responsible to put money there. There are arguments against his plan that don't reject its assumptions. Fact is, from an investment standpoint, oil might be a good bet now considering how low it is, but that won't move the industry in the direction it will eventually go.
.

"What is the first thing you would like Obama to do? "

Katherine,

I'm just a little guy out here in the middle of the forest
I just want Obama to make it all better.
I don't care how he does it or where he starts. :)

LOL
Craig
Your pet troll is BAAAAAAAAAAAACK.

Patsi

*Do Not Feed The Trolls*

Jack

KC, first thing I'd like to see is him start withdrawing troops from Iraq. If you are talking about on the economic front, I'm torn, but rolling back some of the top tier tax cuts (actually, just letting them expire under their sunset clauses) and proposing infrastructure spending programs woudl be close to the top of the list.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/cmon-tina-one-more-palin-turn.html#comment-170416

Me To!!

Jack

Franken's deficit: 236 votes

http://www.startribune.com/politics/state/34024274.html

does the new incentive plan that's being worked have anything it similar to the old ccc of the depression?

and what effect will the deepening unemployment problem have on getting migratory worker permits? don't companies have to consider availability of local labor before being granted permit?

Pogo

I agree re Iraq and infrastructure spending. It will be interesting to see what the markets do next week --after the the televised meeting of the Obama economic group. Hopefully it will be a substantive discussion of issues and not more of the stuff that is going on now.

Re the Pickens plan. I don't disgree with you. I think the reasons it failed had nothing to do with its worthiness but other factors.

"*Do Not Feed The Trolls*"

That says it all Jack.

AP, I don't know the details of Amendment 2, but the rest of your post is spot on - particularly with respct to Scarborough and Bush. Scarborough is returning to his conservative toady persona. Of course Freddie and Fannie didn't buy nonconforming loans, although some of the conforming loans they bought had their problems.

Emanuel pick sends powerful signal
Rahm Pick Shows Obama Wants to Win

"“He’s from the Lombardi wing of the party — he’s a guy who wants to win at any cost and will do whatever it takes,” said John Lapp, a former top Emanuel aide at the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee. Lapp called Emanuel “the best possible pick — a perfectionist and fighter who loves the president[-elect] like a brother.”
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1108/15388.html

AP and Pogo's follow up comments once again spotlight the failure of the journalists to investigate the charges made in political campaigns and talk about the truth. There was a lot of fact checking that went on and all of it revealed that neither ACORN or the Community Reinvestment Act had anything to do with the economic crisis. It's like the frickin WMD's despite fact it was not true --most Americans believed it because Liar Cheeeney kept saying it (and all the others)
There have been a number of studies how how hard it is to correct these myths once they get into the public consciouness. The journalist class of the main stream media suck if they allow this fake attack on a decent organization and good policy stand.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/cmon-tina-one-more-palin-turn.html#comment-170425

patd. most fed bucks now are spent through state run infrastructure projects, with the feds providing matching funds (often between 3-1 and 9-1 in the case of highway projects) spent by state DoHs, etc., so no, a depression era CCC is not ilkely, although enlarging the forest and park services to reasonable levels - not a bad ides, bts - might look like that.

Someone in a state with migrant workers might be better able to answer the 2nd question. I know that in order to get a work Visa the employer has to certify that the worker is providing some service that is unavailable otherwise, but I'm not sure how strictly that is enforced or what documentation has to be provided. Migratory work permits (e.g. for produce pickers) - I don't know.

Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow on blistersyeahbutchannel

Symbolic Politics
Independent Voters in Search of a Home

pogo...

How very true. I will post the wording of Amendment 2 later today when I get home and you can take a look at it to see if my interpretation of it is correct.

A man and a women in a civil union would lose the rights that are given to a married couple and I am not talking about Tax benefits.

I have heard of married couples getting divorced because their income goes up if there both retired and receiving a Social Security check since if I remember correctly a married couple can only receive one check and usually its the husband since his check would be higher then the wife's who would not have a long work history and therefore a lower amount then what her husband would receive for his work history.

There are other benefits also like the ad that was run in opposition to the Amendment 2 about a man and women where the women waited hours to go into surgery and her civil partner would not have been able to wait with her.

Forced religious beliefs have no place in our laws, that's no different then the Taliban forcing their beliefs upon others in their countries.

Just my two cents worth.

Obama’s victory: a change the world should believe in

"The world looks anew at its sole superpower.....

Europeans see another Mr Obama. Black, certainly, but a product also of America’s familiar east coast: intelligent, urbane and, above all, someone who shares their sensibilities about the necessary balance between power and persuasion in world affairs; Europe’s kind of president.

There, you might say, lies Mr Obama’s genius: abroad as well as at home, he has proved one of those rare politicians who invites others to discover in him their own priorities and preoccupations.

Mr Obama’s promise of engagement and collaboration speaks to an intelligence that understands that America needs to gather its friends in order to defeat it enemies; and that the rules of the international system can be enforced on the weakest only if they are observed by the strongest.

....this is a moment for optimism. Once in a while, politicians do change the course of history."
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a40ef544-ac28-11dd-aa46-000077b07658,s01=1.html?nclick_check=1

Pogo -
One of the things that will be growth business is what I'm calling a General Store for the 21st Century.
People know less about alternative energies that they do about the location of Africa.
An example :
20 % of home energy consumption is used to heat hot water, Israel has been using solar to heat it's domestic water for over forty years. So it's not some far off deal, in fact the Chinese are now the world leaders in manufacturing these systems. (Thank - you Dick Cheney)
All the housing stock in American is a target market for this retrofit.
A specialty store that has this, as well as home photovoltaic / wind, etc., is a prime area for growth.
One may order a system on the net, but most folks aren't skilled enough to install it. So a store that offers education, sales and service - that has a future.
Another interesting thing this year was that Walmart gave the O.K. for it's stores to source local produce, close in farming is going to make a come back. City folk banding together to support a local farmer is another trend that's going to grow. I saw a story about a group of Dakota farmers opening their own restaurant in D.C.

Lot's of stuff happening, but it's not as easy as telling people about whether pigs need a new shade of lipstick.

"Another interesting thing this year was that Walmart gave the O.K. for it's stores to source local produce, close in farming is going to make a come back. City folk banding together to support a local farmer is another trend that's going to grow. I saw a story about a group of Dakota farmers opening their own restaurant in D.C."

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/12/magazine/12policy-t.html?emc=eta1
The recent Michael Pollan article to the farmer in chief makes the argument without a major change in our food system you cannot deal with other issues. Because it deals with a sensitive and highly personal issue --what you like to eat, I doubt a president can take on the issue in the way Pollan suggests. However, in the spirit of the "you are the one you have been waiting for" thinking about our food system and its impact is something we should all be doing.

"Independent Voters in Search of a Home"

Not me. I like it out here in the middle of nowhere.

"- I do not believe that it takes all kinds.....it is just that there ARE all kinds. Not all kinds are needed"
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/honeymoon-in-washington.html#comment-170256

Bethy, I seldom disagree with you, but think I do on this one. I think it does TAKE all kinds. There's one end of the spectrum and there's the opposite end, and then all that stuff in between. I think we need them all. There's a natural balance to it.

If everyone was all the same, then someone would be selling out, or at least compromising a little too often.

and Bethy, you're wrong about something. You are never boring. :)

Anon P--

If it possible for a married couple to only get one social security check then that is something that has changed recently, because both my father and my mother got checks before their deaths. I think she had the choice of getting half of what his check was, or what she was entitled under her own earnings, whichever was bigger. I could be wrong, it has been awhile.

pogo--------------------

Was not planning to post about this today, but like yesterday - you mentioned it.
--------------
"... ignores the fact that with the exception of the BC controversy that's been concocted that the documents that would resolve the other issues he's raised are available to him or his champions as part of the public record ..."

Really?

Is this available?

Certified copies of Obama’s Application and Admission forms for Occidental College, Columbia University and Harvard Law School

The latest generation for solar hot water collectors -

http://homeimprovement.resourcesforattorneys.com/index.php?category=25

China is following the Israeli lead with this design

Jamie--

They haven't certified the election results from Missouri yet because there is a large number of provisional ballots and absentee ballots left to count. The difference be Obama and McCain is so small that it could change the outcome. It could also affect a couple of the state races too.

Don't bother AP - I'll look it up. I've discovered this very handy research tool called Google. :-)

OK, did that. Her'es the whole thing:

"PROPOSITION 8
This initiative measure is submitted to the people in accordance with the provisions of Article II, Section 8, of the California Constitution.
This initiative measure expressly amends the alifornia Constitution by adding a section thereto; therefore, new provisions proposed to be added are printed in italic type to indicate that they are new.
SECTION 1. Title
This measure shall be known and may be cited as the “California Marriage Protection Act.”
SECTION 2. Section 7.5 is added to Article I of the California Constitution,
to read:
SEC. 7.5. Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized
in California."

I don't think that the Amendment would do anything wrt civil unions, whether between same or different sex partners - It appears on its face only to apply to same sex marriages. Civil unions are more like partnerships under the CA Domestic Partnership law. I think that in its simplest terms (and it's hard to get much simpler than its actual terms), Prop 8 just does not allow or recognize marriage between same sex couples. Although I do not agree with the Prop., the state could extend all the rights associated with marriage to domestic partners, and the decision the amendment reverses may do that inits application although it's probably too narrow to be construed that way. Rights provided under civil union or domestic partnership statutes shouldn't be affected.

Special Musical Interlude Dedicated to Chloe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMrm7ZQ0aMA

New White House Chief of Staff Supports the Pickens Plan!

Rep. Emanuel is a BIG supporter of moving to natural gas generally and the Pickens Plan in particular. He introduced Boone at a town hall event in Chicago in October. In an interview posted on the Pickens Plan website on Sept. 30, 2008,

http://www.pickensplan.com/news/2008/11/06/new-white-house-chief-of-staff-supports-the-pickens-plan/

Pogo
I think AP was talking about Fla Prop 2

http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Florida_Marriage_Amendment_(2008)ogo

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/cmon-tina-one-more-palin-turn.html#comment-170446

Thanks! I haven't heard that song for so long.
I love it!

Nice tune to end this on, thanks. Gotta go.

Gordo, no. Those are just distractions. They are secondary documents with no legal force or effect as repects his citizenship or name, which are reflected in official government documents. Any documents that changed his name are available through the agencies in which the are filed. A court will take judicial notice of the official documents and their contents, it will not do the same with those other documents. If you want the secondary documents, file a lawsuit and issue subpoenas. They won't be available under FOIA.

KGC -

I don't think the Calf, renewable energy props were about what Pickens is talking about.
-----------------------
Two renewable energy propositions this recently concluded election failed to gain public approval in California. These two cases are quite special because while they're related to renewable energy, environmentalist groups campaigned against them.

http://www.goodcleantech.com/2008/11/california_votes_no_on_renewab.php

truebeliever...

You may be right as I'm not sure and don't really know much so far about Social Security Benefits though I will be collecting them myself in the near future.

Right now if I decide to start drawing next year at age 63 and not retire I would have to give back some for every dollar over a certain amount I make. Also since it would be early drawing I would only get 80% of the 100% I would receive at age 65.

I do know though that one couple some years ago did divorce because of the income difference there would be because she had no work history and was a stay at home wife.

I'm certain that there have been changes made within the system of Social Security though I don't know what they were.

KC, AP, drat, that's altogether different. AP that may indeed preclude recognition of civil unions and domestic partnerships, whether they are between same sex or opposite sex unions would seem irrelevant. Here's the opposing arguments in a nutshell:

"Opponents said that domestic partnerships are "treated as marriage or the substantial equivalent thereof" and would therefore be invalidated, causing problems like getting health care for a partner. Supporters said that was wrong; marriage has more than a thousand rights and domestic partnership only a handful, so domestic partnerships would be unaffected."

Looks like the Florida courts will get to answer that - and I'm betting it won't take long. That's the problem with broadly and vaguely worded measures that seek to do one simple thing and end up doing another.

All churches religious organizations should be taxed,,at least on the $ that it makes over and above the operations of that church..tax exemption should apply for only the first building,,,,all the chain churches are build from a profit that came from the first building, all $ above a certain amount of a salary for the person (ceo) of that church, all large donations to build private homes should be taxed,,,mink furs, cars, etc etc,,and all the women have to wear ugly clothing( kidding) so the young uns keep their mind on the business at hand---listen to what they r preaching u might not find the sales pitch belivieable,

I only hope that the people who voted against Gay marriage find themselves raising children who turn out to be Gay and fall in love and want to get married. I hope they remind their parents or other family members, what they have done.

The fundies like to say "we love the sinner but hate the sin"...

A musician I know says "we love the bigot, but hate the bigotry"...

Stealers Wheel -

Those boys would scare the paint off a fire plug.

SAN MATEO, Calif., Nov 05, 2008 /PRNewswire-USNewswire via COMTEX/ -- The No on Proposition 10 campaign claims an early landslide victory as election night results from throughout California indicate a lopsided defeat of T Boone Pickens' ballot measure.
"California voters didn't fall for a Texas oil tycoon's $10 billion money grab, no matter how much he spent camouflaging it as green," stated Richard Holober, spokesman for the No on Prop 10 campaign, and Executive Director of the Consumer Federation of California. "Proposition 10 is the ultimate example of a wealthy special interest abusing the ballot initiative process to enrich itself. We built a coalition of major environmental, consumer, business, labor, taxpayer and civic organizations that triumphed over Prop 10's $23 million war chest. The defeat of Prop 10 sends a signal that California's ballot initiative process is not for sale to the highest bidder."
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/California-Sends-Pickens-Packing-Prop/story.aspx?guid={91C223A6-F20C-4993-B8BB-8D21C618748F}

And remember... It's ok to be GAY !!!! Everyone watch this video please. cool song

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6bGW4ShpNU

Anon-P

Yeah, see it has been 15 yrs. since both my mom and dad were alive. I know it has changed some. Haven't paid a bit of attention to it because I always figured It wouldn't be there for me anyway. I'm starting to get old enough maybe I should take it more seriously. But I think that I have to be almost seventy or so before I would qualify. Still plenty of time for it to go up in a poof of smoke!!

Solar -

1793 During the French Revolution, "Christianity" was abolished on this date. Reason was deified, and as many as 2,000 churches were afterward destroyed throughout France.

Solar, write your congressman - tax exempt status is governed by the IRS Code and Regs - it can be broadened or narrowed with the stroke of a pen (and a majority of votes if it's the Code). And don't get me wrong - I agree that income for churches should be taxed to the extent that it is not used for charitable purposes - but that's another can of worms.

Anon-----with the end of religion---i believe that wars, terrorism, ends also

At a 1971 dinner, Pres, Reagan told California legisaltor James Mills that everything is in place for the battle of Armageddon and the second coming of christ. The pres has permitted jerry falwell to attend the national security council meetings and author and armageddon advcate Hal Lindsey to give a talk on nuclear war with Russia.....i will post this often as i can---for the lurkers to see,,,the more that sees this type of info, the better

Stealer's Wheel - "Stuck in the mIddle With You" - Gerry Rafferty - he disappeared 3 months ago and hasn't apparently been seen since.

Tryin' to make some sense of it all, but it seems it makes no sense at all.

Reagan, Falwell and Lindsey - now there's a scary trio.

lunch

End the IRS---thats a good step---but the two party's will never allow it writing my congressman is a waste of time, on this issue----going for a run and some exercise now

well bloody hell, didn't anyone look at the video link I gave?

KCG -

Thanks for the link . Funny how 2 sites report the same thing . One thing's for sure diesel will the fuel moving our goods unless we switch to something else. It takes 4 barrels of oil to make 1 barrel of diesel.
I followed the links on the one I found into the League of Women Voters site about the prop.

It has arguments for , and against with rebuttals to each.

For :
DR. ALAN HENDERSON, Past President
American Cancer Society, California Division

MIGUEL PULIDO, Governing Board Member
South Coast Air Quality Management District

ALLISON HART, Executive Director
Clean and Renewable Energy Association

DR. ALAN HENDERSON, Past President
American Cancer Society, California Division

JIM CONRAN, President
Consumers First, Inc.

JOHN D. DUNLAP III, Former Chair
California Air Resources Board

Against :

LENNY GOLDBERG, Executive Director
California Tax Reform Association

MARK TONEY, Executive Director
The Utility Reform Network (TURN)

MARTY HITTLEMAN, President
California Federation of Teachers

DONNA GERBER, Director of Government
Relations
California Nurses Association

RICHARD HOLOBER, Executive Director
Consumer Federation of California

JUDY DUGAN, Research Director
Consumer Watchdog

http://www.smartvoter.org/2008/11/04/ca/state/prop/10/

ET -
Sorry , I was off in my own baileywick. I'm not gay, but that's O.K. I think if gays want to get married and be as miserable as the rest of us that's O.K.

NEW THREAD

Wow. Everyone seems so grouchy and ouchy today! What happened? It's Friday -- and we have a new president! Yay.

I'm really troubled by the success of Prop 8. This will not go away easily. To explain the need for marriage rights as opposed to civil unions, I can only say that when my husband died suddenly without a will, I only needed our marriage certificate and his death certificate to pick up where he left off and move on with my children. (We had our wills on the computer but never had them properly notarized.) I was able to get Survivor's benefits from Social Security to help pay the bills. I could make all the decisions about his funeral. We had talked about what to do in case this ever happened. Some people in his family disapproved of what he wanted (cremation) and due to my legal status as his widow, I could protect his wishes. I automatically received all the accounts and easily transferred them to my name. There was no estate to worry about because as the wife I had joint tenancy. Marriage confers automatic benefits that a domestic partnership/civil union does not. My rights were never questioned, never denied. I did not need a lawyer to navigate the property and financial matters that followed after his death. That's important.

My family members in California are in long term gay relationships that have lasted longer than my marriage. They were married shortly after the California Supreme Court decision. I do not deserve to have more rights than they have. There is nothing they could take from me if their marriage is recognized in law. I live in a state (Virginia) that once outlawed interracial marriage, which we now recognize as valid. Legal marriage was also once limited to members of the Anglican Church, property owners and freemen. As times changed, the right of marriage was opened to others -- but each time the people who wanted to limit marriage rights claimed that opening this right to others would somehow be a threat to the institution. And yes, Christianity and the Bible was often cited as the justification.

New Thread.....

"Fact is, from an investment standpoint, oil might be a good bet now considering how low it is, but that won't move the industry in the direction it will eventually go."

Pogo, I think oil still has further to go on the downside.

Countries have obligated themselves for their optimistically forecast oil revenues--as the spread between marginal cost of production and sales price declines, they have little choice but to increase production--at least up to the point where they are bumping up against fixed costs.

If I were going to buy right now, I'd certainly hedge my positions.

If you're not a fanatic, even an Obama supporter should find this 2-1/2 minute video funny.

Humor and Hypocrisy from the World of Politics
http://politicalirony.com/2008/11/06/obama-victory-leaves-supporters-with-nothing-to-talk-about/