Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Gird your loins. It's like cleaning Augean Stables.

won't work this time, craig, cause we out-source everything. can't put the unemployed back to work if the weapons and materiel will be made by cheap labor and no regs beyond the border.

Good morning

and if it takes a war to keep us economically sound, why are we in the mess were in now since we have been at war on two fronts for the last 5+ years?

given your hypothothesis, had we not sent tens of thousands to iraq and afgan'n, we would really be in deep do do.

deep-er do do.... or is that a redundancy like being more pregnant?

fascinating article in ny times mag re reprogramming jihadists
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/09/magazine/09jihadis-t.html?_r=1&ref=magazine&oref=slogin

craig, the "do" in your 4th paragraph should be "to"

and, btw, did you notice that last night oldsea brought up the bug-a-boo about us being lab rats. better breakout the tranquilizers again, the little boogers are getting restless.

Thank you to our Veterans for their service to our Country.

Thank you for their sacrifice for our continued safety and freedom’s

Thank a Vet today !!

just like old Herc to "clean up the stables" by polluting the rivers and streams........I hope he issued gas masks to all the cats down stream.........lol

Craig - Good post..

But ask a few more Questions?
What was the tax approach during this period.

youre welcome Ping......it was the least I could do.....

Thank YOU Sturgeone!!!!

Good morning all and thank you Sturge and all other Vets for your sacrifices!

O'Reilly is so incredibly self-absorbed and condescendingly arrogant. BTW, he's on Fox.

well......for me, it was more a pain in the butt than a sacrifice, but a big thank you to all the peoples who actually did sacrifice life and limb and sometimes sanity in our service..........

Don't know if anyone remembers but am still working on getting the 94th Infantry Division recognized as a liberating unit. It is now at Congressional Research, sadly it is taking too much time. I would like my father and his comrades to see that day.

You're too humble Sturge.

Off for my Remicade. You all have a peaceful morning.

Thank you Flatus !!!

my military career left me with much to be humble about......

Craig, one thing to remember is that the New Deal was created to save capitalism and social order. Social programs have always been created with an eye on stability and safety. Wasn't FDR a banker during part of his career? I googled but couldn't find anything...

Ping is it Veteran's day?

Obama Plans War With Iran?
http://savagepolitics.com/obama-plans-war-with-iran/news

Yeah it's Veteran's Day. Armistice day, too. Learn your history. What are you, some sort of socialist living in Belgium or something?

Were you in Vietnam Sturge?

never even close........Im tellin' ya, compared to me Beetle Bailey appears more like Dwight Eisenhower........I fall more into the GW's type of military service..........ie, not so much.......

Well, just the same, thank you,

Hey - Was this also the repeal of Prohibition ended in this period..

What impact did the flow of a legal drink have on the recovery?

I joined....... did two years active and saw memphis and E.City NC.....keeping our coasts safe and sound

semper paratus was our guide.......

most of my buddies saw the jungle.....it's them me hat's off to.................

Morning Patsi, got your fudge made and am tin the middle of tempering the chocolate.

Bush and Obama have good meetings

Bush is handling the transition very well

Off to the evil capitilistic world!!

Thanks again to all the Vets for making it possible...

There is, Craig; green jobs. Solve the energy and environmental problems of our nation and the world. It's gonna require math & science, but that's just the sacrafice we're gonna have to make.

Energy problems? Magically, the gas price in Des Moines has gone down to $1.77/gal. Still hovering around $2/gal in my area of TX. I guess they want us to spend money in the stores so the retailers don't all go belly up this Christmas.

Thank you to all the veterans. My great-uncle was a gunner's mate on a merchant marine ship. He took that assignment because he heard a rumor that they got fed well & when he was back at home, he went hungry a lot. No, we can whine all we want, but most of us in this country still have much it better than our grandparents' generation...especially the folks at AIG.

November 11, 2008. Forty years ago today I got married in the campus chapel....and even though we've been divorced for three decades, my ex and I often email or phone each other on this "momentous" anniversary. After all, we ended up with two of the greatest children on earth, and now the grandest granddaughter.

Iraq & Afghanistan are regional conflicts not near the scale of WWII with the entire European Continent, North Africa, Islands all across the Pacific and China involved.

I live on the coast, appreciate that. We have an old WWII bunker still on our south beach. Hear tales from the seniors about citizens taking on night shore watches during WWII. Did they do that down in your parts too Sturge?

My father (Army Infantry), step-father (Army Artillery) and father in law (Navy Pacific) all fought in WWII. They are all gone now but I salute them and all the other vererans who have served this country.

yep, me old man had that gig on the beach here before he got drafted......also as he was a navy yard welder, I seem to remember his telling (years later) something about his helping to dismantle a german sub they got here somehow.......

You were shown the door one week ago today.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/deadlineusa/2008/nov/11/sarah-palin

And now she's blaming...us, I guess. Anybody still blog from their 'rents basement?

"those bloggers in their parents' basement just talkin' garbage".

5 of my uncles made the big show......3 in the south pacific, (2 army and 1 marines), and 2 in Europe.....my dad, drafted late, never left the states.....

"AIG is coming to the government claiming to be in critical condition and asking to be placed under intensive care, but they are still going out and partying and acting as healthy as ever..."

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/business/articles/2008/11/11/20081111biz-aigresort1111.html

It's called a tele-conference, people. I know they say their part was a tiny $23k, but c'mon.

Holy shit, dismantled one? I only hear stories of a few being sighted. Wonder how well people would put up with black outs now?

All of my paternal grandparents' brothers served in WWII. My grandfather tried to enlist, but he was 4F...actually had a metal plate behind his ear from getting stepped on by a horse when he was a kid. He stayed home and built roads/WPA.

One of the great-uncles was at Guadalcanal. Kind of took to the drink for awhile, but pulled himself out & always worked. What's the difference then & Viet Nam and beyond? Jobs? Social structure? Someone, ping, I think asked a good question: What about the tax policy?

One of my uncles was 4F too. He didn't take it as well as your grandfather. All the other 4 boys had enlisted, even worse his younger brother signed up with the Navy at 16. He was the only boy left in town, Marked him the rest of his life. He was so terribly ashamed he started a fine, long drinking career.

It is hard for me to comprehend the fervor and patriotism of that time.

my brothers were in the air force and marines; but my dad was the real hero. he worked in the shipyards during wwII and later died of asbestiosis because of it.

patd- You're right, he was the hero. They really were the greatest generation.

patd.........my old man dodged the asbestos deal....after 6 yrs as a shipyard welder (with time out for 2 yrs in the service), he lost a leg after a welding accident and was transferred to personnel.......

yep......they all sacrificed life and limb.......

Excellent Video for Veterans Day: A Pittance of Time. I used the story behind it for my blog today.

http://jdurward.blogspot.com/

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/beware-the-great-depression-an.html#comment-172131

I have been watching some National Geographic specials on WW 1 ... such sad stories...

I got Veteran's Day mixed up with Labor Day. Today is national holiday in Belgium thus I am home.

a feller I knew quite well in denver told me about his uncle dick who took part in D-day......said he came home was ok for awhile and then one day he put his helmet on and sat in a rocking chair in his room the rest of his life rocking and laughing at something.......

Craig,

Your column fits right in with the premise behind "Hot, Flat, and Crowded"

http://www.thomaslfriedman.com/bookshelf/hot-flat-and-crowded

Our financial well being is to be found in correcting the environmental problems of the world. Instead of manufacturing the weapons of war, we become the engine for all the "green" innovations.

You are right that the economy didn't correct in the Great Depression until the massive war time manufacturing pulled us out, but we had the advantage that we were one of the few nations that didn't have fighting on our soil and had all the resources necessary to help repair others afterwards.

What the WPA did was put people to work. Human beings simply don't do well without a purpose. The anger that existed at the time could have taken the US down the road to anarchy. The alphabet soup that FDR created brought stability if not wealth.

I like Veterans Day much better when it's a holiday for old men, not young men.

After seeing the "lab rats" remark above I had to go back and see what everyone was up to last night. Just to put a period on my talk about MSNBC, I'll say that I like the new lineup of

1600
Matthews
Olbermann
Maddow

Morning JOe is iffy. When it's good it's very good but when the host is crabby everybody gets whiney. I actually like it more than Imus except for the loss of the music that he used to have.

I would like to see that panel show with different issues covered depending on the day of the week. It could lead off into 1600 and then the whole schedule repeated instead of the documentaries. That would take care of the east coast/west coast time differences.

Just my ideas

LardassLiberal- hear, hear.

mornin' all.

What Lardass said is the best comment on Veteran's day I've ever seen or heard.

interesting post, Craig....dyslexia...we are coming off of two wars and have sunk into a depression. What is in a name? We are in a the greatest repression of the new age. And did Bin Laden win? Maybe he has effectively knocked down the financial system around the world along with a lot of freedoms.

My dad and all 3 of my uncles served in WWII and all survived it - one is still alive. Happy Veteran's day, Oz.

Here is a good article to start analyzing spending and taxes during the Great Depression

http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2008/11/understanding-f.html

It is written from the "spend more, tax less" standpoint but names the major players, provides a few links, and at least gives you a starting point for analysis of possible solutions.

If you google

Income taxes during great depression

It brings up a host of good material.

Happy Vets Day....all. I gave all of my office staff the day off...I'm here all alone....funny thing though....I'm the only vet....how'd this happen???...:)

My dad was a marine in Korea. my grandfather a marine in China in the 20's. My grandfather tried to reenlist in the marines in WWII but was told that they could make marines in 8 weeks and that shipfitters took a year. He spent the entire war making submarines and minesweepers in Charleston.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/arnold-to-the-rescue.html#comment-171922

LOL. Oh, god, I think I just pissed myself. Champ, for $.25 and 2 boxtops, you too, can join the Phil Berg fan club.

Good web bio on FDR from the FDR Library

http://www.fdrlibrary.marist.edu/fdrbio.html

FDR's attempt to solve the Great Depression was called the New Deal. Unfortunately, the Depression was never solved. Many historians believe it was the start of World War II, resulting in massive military contracts to industries, that brought us out of the depression and increased employment. Perhaps the greatest accomplishment of the New Deal was to ease the economic hardship faced by many during the Great Depression. While not being able to end the Depression, the New Deal did preserve the people’s confidence in America’s institutions and government. The relief measures of the New Deal were considered a success. Not everyone supported the New Deal. As a formula for economic recovery, the New Deal failed. Many businessmen and financiers did not support the economic measures of the New Deal. With the recession of 1937, many business leaders and politicians claimed that FDR’s policies were a failure and the attempt to maintain prosperity during peacetime was not successful at all. Many Americans however in both rural and urban areas of the nation did support the efforts of the New Deal. FDR’s Fireside Chats provided confidence and reassurance to many. Rural electrification, Social Security, insurance of bank accounts, protection for labor unions, and federal controls over the economy gave many a sense of security in the future and in the government. While there were some radical movements during the Great Depression, the faith Americans had in their system of government did not falter. Many, however, were opposed to the growth of the federal government and the corresponding cost to maintain those new governmental agencies. From FDR’s New Deal to the present, the federal government has continued to grow, assume an active role in the daily lives of citizens, and to cost more in the form of taxes, and to spend more on domestic and foreign affairs. Many politicians, economists, and students of government did not favor such increases.

ET

This day was the end of WW I as Armistice Day (Eleventh Hour of the Eleventh Day of the Eleventh Month). Is that why it's a holiday in Belgium?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armistice_Day

Two minutes of silence at 11:00 AM

I learned a long time ago---that when someone asked me for a favor u have two choices---yes---and---no it is that simple,,,i think about what is asked, if no one is hurt,,how will it affect me,, then having done all of this i can decide to do what is asked----if it is a reasonable request i always say yes,,,,

When Craig and jamie asked for the opinions for msnbc i did not see any harm in it, so started to give my 2 cents worth,,,,when i signed up for this blog, i knew that there was going to be some manipulation of it---thru the comment section, and there for of my head---to this day i have not found it intrusive,,,some of the time i think that he starts a new thread just to shut off the bs that occurs, and most of the time in order to get the stale conversation in a new direction,,,,it works,,,i think all the cable news (95% or more) suck,,,i found cnn lacking in worthy news also---they just did not go overboard like msnbc,,,so have most newspapers,,,now im the one taking this too far, so i don't feel that i like a lab rat, or used or ass kisser----some one just asked me for an opinion, and i gave one that is all.....

jamie, from Wiki:

"Veterans Day is an annual American holiday honoring military veterans. Both a federal holiday and a state holiday in all states, it is usually observed on November 11. However, if it occurs on a Sunday then the following Monday is designated for holiday leave, and if it occurs Saturday then either Saturday or Friday may be so designated.[1] It is also celebrated as Armistice Day or Remembrance Day in other parts of the world, falling on November 11, the anniversary of the signing of the Armistice that ended World War I. (Major hostilities of World War I were formally ended at the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month of 1918 with the German signing of the Armistice.)"

Veterans Day began here in th' US as Armistice Day, then later morphed into Veterans Day.

But you knew that.

Oops, the link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veterans_Day

I learned a long time ago---that when someone asked me for a favor u have two choices---yes---and---no it is that simple,,,i think about what is asked, if no one is hurt,,how will it affect me,, then having done all of this i can decide to do what is asked----if it is a reasonable request i always say yes,,,,

When Craig and jamie asked for the opinions for msnbc i did not see any harm in it, so started to give my 2 cents worth,,,,when i signed up for this blog, i knew that there was going to be some manipulation of it---thru the comment section, and there for of my head---to this day i have not found it intrusive,,,some of the time i think that he starts a new thread just to shut off the bs that occurs, and most of the time in order to get the stale conversation in a new direction,,,,it works,,,i think all the cable news (95% or more) suck,,,i found cnn lacking in worthy news also---they just did not go overboard like msnbc,,,so have most newspapers,,,now im the one taking this too far, so i don't feel that i like a lab rat, or used or ass kisser----some one just asked me for an opinion, and i gave one that is all.....

Solar, most of us here have given our opinions about MSNBC - generally negative as will happen at a blog - but at times it goes overboard and when it does Craig asks us to dial it back, MSNBC being one of his employers. Apparently someone over there reads this blog and is a bit too thin skinned to realize that for the most part the criticism here is from people who actually watch the network and offer opinions about how it can be improved. As also happens in blogland, those criticisms tend to be more pointed and snide than polite conversation typically tolerates. All I can say is that I'm glad to see MSNBC making headway against Fox And CNN - I prefer its commentary based political content from both the right and left to either of those networks, which are way to far right or issue focused (e.g. Lou Dobbs) for my liking.

for some factual info on how the war economy finally ended the Great Depression (plus a ton of other economics history):

L. Engerman, Stanley; Gallman, Robert E.. The Cambridge Economic History of the United States. (Volume 3, The Twentieth Century)

In Chap.5, "The Great Depression," the book details how there was some recovery after 1933 (mostly due to gold inflows from an unstable Europe, not the New Deal) but another collapse in 1937 that lasted until the war economy began gearing up in 1939.

A shout out to my much older brother (~~~~~~~~~~~~~) who served in Vietnam but has never used his service to further his opinions or claim greater patriotism.

I don't think Craig asked for it. I just threw it out as something to talk about instead of Palin's shoes. My favorite quote about complying with requests is long but worth reading. It is from Robert Heinlein in "Time Enough for Love"

Do not confuse "duty" with what other people expect of you; they are utterly different. Duty is a debt you owe to yourself to fulfill obligations you have assumed voluntarily. Paying that debt can entail anything from years of patient work to instant willingness to die. Difficult it may be, but the reward is self-respect.
But there is no reward at all for doing what other people expect of you, and to do so is not merely difficult, but impossible. It is easier to deal with a footpad than it is with the leech who wants "just a few minutes of your time, please — this won't take long."

Time is your total capital, and the minutes of your life are painfully few. If you allow yourself to fall into the vice of agreeing to such requests, they quickly snowball to the point where these parasites will use up 100 percent of your time — and squawk for more!
So learn to say No — and to be rude about it when necessary.

Otherwise you will not have time to carry out your duty, or to do your own work, and certainly no time for love and happiness. The termites will nibble away your life and leave none of it for you.

(This rule does not mean that you must not do a favor for a friend, or even a stranger. But let the choice be yours. Don't do it because it is "expected" of you.)

just to be clear i'm not saying the New Deal didn't do good things -- just not as much as widely believed for the macroeconomics of the times

at least we wear more than a bath towel . . .

"Sarah Palin lashed out as bloggers in a Fox interview, calling them "kids in pajamas sitting in the basement of their parents’ homes".

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/linda-bergthold/palin-calls-bloggers-kids_b_142872.html

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122636726473415991.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Change we can believe in??????????????...looks like Obama plans on continuing the Shrub policy on torture.

Here's Krugman's take on it - probably more authoritative, and certainly more informed, than any of ours.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/10/opinion/10krugman.html

Wearing my pea coat today ---it is really for real cold weather but in honor of vet day i will wear it---it is still in like new conditions,,,but has been around since 1970---it is an original Navy pea coat,,,and some times i am offered $ for it--no way,,,,happy vets day to all

"Sarah Palin lashed out as bloggers in a Fox interview, calling them "kids in pajamas sitting in the basement of their parents’ homes".

She must have a magic looking glass like Ms Nancy on Romper Room

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/beware-the-great-depression-an.html#comment-172191

solar, i wasn't asking for opinions about msnbc. thought i explained myself here: http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/arnold-to-the-rescue.html#comment-172101

manipulation? you must be kidding. i don't think Machiavelli his own self could ever manipulate this unruly crowd

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/beware-the-great-depression-an.html#comment-172203

lol

Craig, it's called cat herding.

One proud lab rat
Jack

I hope that consumers as well as the government evaluates what kind of an economy we want. I am hoping for a little less fashion and planned obsolescence and a little more common sense.

HEHEH. Popcorn, please - light on the butter and salt.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/11/opinion/11brooks.html

KGC

Our economy runs on the fact that many of us have more money then we have brains. We need those people so the rest of us can sell products and services. other wise we would all be under the bridge with our card board signs covered with catchy slogans.

Jack

"We need those people so the rest of us can sell products and services. other wise we would all be under the bridge with our card board signs covered with catchy slogans."

I am hoping we are all retrainable and can make some basic adjustments. There can still be stuff for everyone --I'd just like to see more people looks for quality instead of style...or at least both.

What in the world is Sarah Palin talking about? I have not read one bad thing said about her by any bloggers here!

Wikiquote has a huge page of Heinlein quotes. Good reading

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Robert_A._Heinlein

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/beware-the-great-depression-an.html#comment-172209

Corey, you mean today? (Obviously)

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/beware-the-great-depression-an.html#comment-172211

Pogo

The last 30 min? Maybe?

well it's been fun taking a break, but back to book work now -- you guys are a welcome diversion

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/11/opinion/11herbert.html

Could I have a motion awarding Bob Herbert the Best OpEd piece of the day? And a Second? All in favor... the ayes have it.

Craig, if you need any help, feel free to plagiarize any of my responses to Gordo - apparently champ thinks there are plenty of words to spare (and don't feel any need to attribute them to the source).

Today's WIKI quote could apply to the economy or the new Presidency. Leave it to a lady to be pithy and to the point:

These are times in which a genius would wish to live. It is not in the still calm of life, or in the repose of a pacific station, that great characters are formed. The habits of a vigorous mind are formed in contending with difficulties. Great necessities call out great virtues.

Abigail Adams

HEHEH. Popcorn, please - light on the butter and salt.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/11/internal-gop-fight-over-n_n_142953.html

KGC

Style has taken over the world.

I deal with it everyday as I pick things like fixtures and tile. It is now as easy to look the dreaded "dated" with your choice of bathroom tile as it is wearing last years sweater.
I love the choices I have now but it means I can't string a project out while I pick up odd jobs. Come back to it 6 months later and they've changed the style. I have to rethink the whole project.

Jack

Pogo, I never did understand the anger/hatred or whatever you wanna call it over Palin. The election's over now. Time to move on and focus on what lies ahead. Anyway, KGC, my sister and I had that same discussion while at the mall last week. She said, "Going to the mall now means checking to see which stores I have coupons for." I do the same thing. Mostly only buy things that are on sale and shop at stores that I have coupons for which will give me extra discounts on their sale items. My sister also said that she would rather not buy brand name clothing and just shop some place that was cheaper like Target.

We are witnessing the collapse of the “social democracy” consensus of the industrialized/post industrial nations established between 1920 and 1945; the “New Deal” and British Popular Radicalism included. The economic fallacy is that nation states can borrow unlimited amounts of money from God know where and never pay it back. Government bonds can be rolled over indefinitely and fiat currency can always be traded for the goods of the earth. Government can therefore regulate markets (why is there still a drug trade larger than the global auto industry?) and subsidize everything and everyone. These ignorant ideas lead to our housing bubble (no nation can loan money to poor people to buy good houses they cannot afford) and a ten trillion dollar public debt (2.5 trillion owed to Japan and China). Pumping ever greater amounts of valueless currency into the system to produce “liquidity” is foolish because the problem is insurmountable debt not liquidity; with total household debt in the USA at 97% of GNP/GDP to whom will the liquid lenders loan? Not to people who owe more on their home then it is worth. A crash is inevitable to allow the insolvent debtors to go broke and start with a fresh slate.

Back to work

Jack

"with total household debt in the USA at 97% of GNP/GDP to whom will the liquid lenders loan?"

Sounds like an opportunity for those with good credit.

The wife ask me this morning if she sould quit putting money into her 401K, I told her no, this is the time to increase it. the time to stop was last year.

Jack

Crude drops below $59.00.....I just filled up my fat F150
for $41.00...it's $1.79/gal here...just wish diesel would follow.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/beware-the-great-depression-an.html#comment-172223

Th' missus & I have had that discussion as well Jack. Hard to know where we are in this cycle, so it's hard to decide what to do. Best advice I've heard is make your decision based on your goals, not your panic.

Pogo,
I kind of like a bit of panic.....it creates a huge amount of opportunity for those with a strong constitution and a little bit of pragmatism

Craig-----got it---perhaps i should have said guide the conversation,or something like it----this unruly crowd ,,is what makes it worth while for me---

Jax

$1.63 here in Kansas City

I filled up the car for less than 20 bucks. All of us pumping gas were smiling real big. This will be a way bigger stimulus package than anything congress will do. that gives me $4o bucks a week to just blow on useless stuff, like food.

Jack

HEHEH. Popcorn, please, heavy on the butter and salt.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/11/us/politics/11repubs.html?hp

This is just too good for words. I would pray if I believed it would do any good that the repugs listen to Gingrich - hell, make him the party chair - more than one astute political observer places the blame for the collapse of the permanent republican congressional majority envisioned by Rove squarely in Gingrich's lap. I don't know if they're right, but I'd love to test that theory today.

Jack,
I'm with you....I'm loving the retail deals out there now. I've made a personal decision not to participate in the coming recession...Xmas looks good for the family this year....just bought the inlaws tickets to fly in from Providence for the Holidays $300.00 each r/t....not bad

jax, panic's pretty easy to find these days.

Pogo,
it is, I just keep refusing to let the negativity of the media and....yes blogs.... get me down. I put in a few extra hours a week at work and the biz keeps growing...:)

Goopers are not rationale at the moment. They are seeing Newt as a successful Republican instead of the architect of the current failure.

The moderates need to speak up and push the extremists to another party --they can join the Bigot Buchanan.

Yes, kc, and I hope they continue to struggle in their delusions. There will be a struggle for power in that party, and I hope the party loses as a result of that struggle.

Armistice Day: Annual Commemorations in Ieper (Ypres)

11th November is a public holiday in Belgium. To mark the anniversary of Armistice Day, 11 November 1918, commemorative events are held in Ieper (Ypres).

11 nov. wapenstilstand Which means the stopping the use of weapons.

Goopers are not rationale at the moment.

Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | November 11, 2008 11:36 AM

Uhhh, and this is something new?

All of this confusion and disarray is swelling the ranks of the independents, as i many times have said,,,my only hope is that they are in great numbers,,,this will push the extreme left and the extreme right to were they are more visible?? then the country will be run from the center as it should be-----a little ism of both social and capital ---as i keep saying ---yeah yeah i know im dreaming. :-)

brain
you seem to think the government the
answer to everything' obviously you've have not
had to deal with bureaucrats at any level '
most wouldn't make it one day in the private sector

mqw, it's also not correct that the government is not the answer to ANYTHING which is what the right wing so often spews...

As it is vet day,,i think that all should serve in some way,,,there would be a new way of thinking---i really respect the politicians that have a loved one serving---regardless of party---the military would help a lot of young people grow up (emotionally ) give the gender gap a little more help,,,seeing a woman in iraq tells me and a lot of people that they can and will rise to any given situation----really like T. Duckworth,,,,and lastly the washington critters would be less apt to start a war knowing that their own are going to die for their decisions.

On todays thread i hope that the ones that have a little more $ than needed, that they put in a little meat in the soup if someone knocks on your door ( ok jax) just like they did in the great depression!

Solar, yep, the republican meme is that we are a center-right country - spluttered constantly and based on nothing more than their own opinion. Luckily, in a world of gray, goopers see only black and white. The power struggle in the GOP is reflective of that - attributing the loss to a) rejection of all things Bush or b) failure to adhere to conservative values or other very discrete issues. Voter preference for the Obama's proposed approach to dealing with the complex problems of the economy, taxes and Iraq don't even seem to be part of the dialog. I hope they continue to focus on their philsophical shortcomings and continue to push low taxes for the rich and trickle down economics instead of trying to figure out how to fix the real world problems that exist (as a result of Bushanomics at least in part) and selling their solution to the voters and middle class taxpayers. I'd like to see a stronger Dem congress in '10.

lunch

Pogo---as usual i agree,,,,and i also agree with something that u said a while back on another thread----the more Dems in the congress and senate the better to get things on the right road again----and i like that also cos it will show them for what they are----good or bad for the country---Obama and his staff better start right friggin now, not when makes gets the pledge for potus???

EuroTom

Glad to hear you are a fan of Tom Ammiano's. He is my favorite politician and should have been elected mayor of SF. Ammiano was treated very unfairly by the media.

Ammiano is the architect of SF's health care initiative. The restaurant association has been very rude to him -including refusing service.

I was wondering the other day how Shrub must feel being a complete and total failure.

Seeing him this morning on the Intrepid - he is delusional. He thinks history will vindicate him.

Fact Check------thank u for your 9:44 post

Pat J.-------------thank u for your 11:07 post

brain has come up with a grand solution. the economy
will be running like a swiss clock'a model of efficiency
all we have to do is get those people down at the
DMV and put them in charge';all our problems are over

Salon article on the damage done to the environment by the Bush controlled EPA

http://www.salon.com/env/feature/2008/11/11/epa/?source=newsletter

One of the most damaging legacies of Ronald Reagan (and there are many to choose from) is the notion that Government is an enemy of the people and should not take progressive steps to protect the citizenry.

It astounds me...

You all can be lab rats if you want, but I'm going for spoiled rotten prime fancy

http://sfr.nocensmundus.net/gallery2/d/8788-3/Pixie5.jpg

Dog's Eye -

I live just outside of the Oort Cloud.

Viv -

Thanks for that Sleeping Budda news.

Champ-

"Does anyone know where the love of God goes, when the waves turn the minutes to hours ?"

Craig -

CNN sucks too.

Craig -

70,000 words by Dec. 1st ?

Try and work in Valivostok.

Centre-right, centre-right, centre-right....Do they think if they repeat it enough,God will hear their prayer and make it so? I feel like using it as Pee-Wee's word of the day and every time I hear it. I'll scream real loud.

ET

The Battle of Ypres is commemorated in what is probably the most famous poem to come out of WW I
written by Lt. Col John McCrae, MD

In Flanders Field

http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/flanders.htm

And the poem by Carl Sandburg about all of the dead in all of the battles:

Grass

Pile the bodies high at Austerlitz and Waterloo.
Shovel them under and let me work -
I am the grass; I cover all.

And pile them high at Gettysburg
And pile them high at Ypres and Verdun.
Shovel them under and let me work.

Two years, ten years, and passengers ask the conductor:
What place is this?
Where are we now?

I am the grass.
Let me work.

The History channel has been running 30 min. programs from Lucasfilms Lmt. in their first hour this fall.

This morning they ran one on Franz Kafka. When he finally met a girl he liked, he wrote her a proposal of marriage letter. It was a 25 pages long listing all the reasons she shouldn't marry him, only at the end did he ask her to marry him. When she replied yes, he wrote back, and urged her to re-read page 7 just to be sure.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/beware-the-great-depression-an.html#comment-172257

Rosie,

The bright side: No more Mavericks

Salon article on the damage done to the environment by the Bush controlled EPA
http://www.salon.com/env/feature/2008/11/11/epa/?source=newsletter"

Good piece, Jamie -- thanks for the link.

My father in France, late summer of 1944 -

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/2126/picture171qx2.png

jamie, sez who?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maverick_%28roller_coaster%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Maverick_episodes

I just had lunch with a business associate who've I've known for many years. He told me a story that just shows how upside down everything is. This guy is very wealthy and married to the same woman for 35 years. She was able to raise their children and never had to work outside the home. A few years ago they noticed that she would not qualify for social security. he decided to make her the CFO of a small professional services company he used in his personal consulting.
He paid her a total of $5700.00 over 4 years. (16 qtrs)
This allowed her to qualify for social security. She just
retired at 62 and received her first check $518.00/month. She paid in a total of $5700.00 in her lifetime and will take out over $6000.00/yr for the rest of her life.......laughs.....what a return on investment.!!!!!and we want the gov't to run more programs???????

Interesting article on the waning political sway of the south.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/11/us/politics/11south.html?hp

"Mr. Obama won in Jefferson County, which includes the city of Birmingham, and in the Black Belt, but he made few inroads elsewhere."

My home county.

pojo
bureaucrats are bureaucrats they are all the same at all
levels of government
surely you aren't that stupid to think that if you put them
in charge of every aspect of our lives that the country
will be better off' they have to much power already

American-Made: The Enduring Legacy of the WPA: When FDR Put the Nation to Work

"The WPA lasted for eight years, spent $11 billion, employed eight and a half million men and women, and gave the country not only a renewed spirit but a fresh face. Under its colorful head, Harry Hopkins, the agency's remarkable accomplishment was to combine the urgency of putting people back to work with its vision of physically rebuilding America. Its workers laid roads, erected dams, bridges, tunnels, and airports. They stocked rivers, made toys, sewed clothes, served millions of hot school lunches. When disasters struck, they were there by the thousands to rescue the stranded. And all across the country the WPA's arts programs performed concerts, staged plays, painted murals, delighted children with circuses, created invaluable guidebooks. Even today, more than sixty years after the WPA ceased to exist, there is almost no area in America that does not bear some visible mark of its presence."

http://www.powells.com/biblio/1-9780553802351-2

Seriously Jax, thats terrible. I've had to work every day of my adult life, and right now I work two jobs just to make ends meet. I'll probly make just about that amount in SS AND still have to work until the day I die.

people too undisciplined to plan for themselves....

Wait till all those 401 k's finish going in the crapper Jack.

Rosie,
I couldn't agree more. But it highlights what's wrong with gov't programs. How do you think I feel. I'm paying a large portion of what she's getting as I'll only see a percentage of what I pay in.

Anon,
Some may...... mine is up 12% this year. If they are managed properly and people don't panic sell they'll be fine......

Jack let me guess, is your business associate is a Republican ?

Anon,
laughs....actually he's a dem attorney. He's a bright guy. I didn't know about the 16 qtr requirement....he's a Texas dem though.....gun rights and all that

Jax, he's also a liar. Here is what's required:

http://www.ssa.gov/retire2/credits1.htm

Or, you misunderstood.

Jax -----is there anything other than $$$$$$ that makes u happy---the obvious is family-what else,,,,more $$$$$ ???

u know the more $ one has, the least true freinds and family that one has,,,the more $ u have the more u are going to have to watch out for it,,it does flush them out (family and friends) but u knew it all along,,so no surprise----i want to have a good amount of $ for myself and my family,,,along the way help some others that are not so lucky---only the ones that are not envious or 2 faced---other than that $$ is not real---u can't eat it, it just becomes hording ----that becomes greedy..imo

mqw,
Government has proven much more efficient at administering very large programs than the private sector - efficient in the sense that they administer them for less money than their private sector equivalents - and because they don't allow stupid crap like AIG did and has continued to do as recently as last week while mewling at the public teet. You say SSI, I say AIG.

jax, your friend cleverly took advantage of the law - BFD. Thank him when you pay your quarterly taxes. The fact that there are loopholes to be taken advantage of in the public sector doesn't prove that the private sector is without fault. I know of a person who had a $25,000 experimental (i.e. not approved by FDA) joint appliance installed by his orthopod. His insurance did not cover experimental appliances, but by lying to the insco, his orthopod got the appliance covered. Your example proves nothing about government versus private efficiency in managing large programs.

jax - friend or whatever - it don't matter.

More Wall Street BS...this is where the bailout money is going....

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/WallStreet/story?id=6230818&page=1

Flatus,
I checked, it's 16 credits and she took it at 62 not 65.
It's a reduced payment no doubt but its still $6000 + per year.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/beware-the-great-depression-an.html#comment-172271

jax WADR, it highlights the absurdity of people who have had the foresight to take care of themselves taking advantage of a system set up for those who haven't or couldn't. While you and I may be in a position to save enough to retire without government assistance, we do not represent the majority of Americans. Let's listen to the top 10% bhowl if Obama proposes excluding them from SSI through means testing.

"Apparently someone over there reads this blog and is a bit too thin skinned to realize that for the most part the criticism here is from people who actually watch the network and offer opinions about how it can be improved."
pogo, good bet that this overly sensitive chap is also a tad jealous of craig, of our obvious respect and admiration for him, and because we probably call said chap less than kind names or strike too close to the truth re his performance. they should be glad they don't have to pay us what nielsen costs...we give them ratings and feedback for nothing

pogo,
Maybe my example didn't prove anything. But it told me a lot about you guys. Such an ardent defense of an obviously flawed program is interesting to me.....

I told you about a legal federal program and you tell me about insurance fraud.....I'm trying to imagine how you think they are related?

Solar - I tried but I just don't understand what you're trying to say.....

I've always enjoyed the paradox of Economic Darwinism vs Biological Darwinism in the conservative movement.
One is carved in stone, the other is just a theory.

KC, that's what I was referring to.

Pogo,
I have no doubt that the gov't is going to tell me that the
retirement money that I have paid in will be forfeited for the greater good. I expect they'll probably take my 20 year military pension (due when I'm 59)as well. I just wish they'd tell me now instead of waiting until I'm almost there.

jax, they are examples of the administration of public versus private insurance programs (SSI is no less insurance than any private insurance program) - that's how they are related. You tried to make a point about one and I countered with the other. The loopholes in the two are different only because the natures of the two programs are distnct and related to their respective origins - one is governed by regulations that have the force of law, the other is governed by guidelines that don't have the force of law. The fact that one is governed by regulations that can be taken advantage of and the other is governed by guidelines that can be taken advantage of (the billing for the appliance was done completely consistent with the insurance company's guidelines notwithstanding the policy language precluding payment for experimental surgical procedures, appliances and medications) are distinctions without a difference. They also do not bear on the respective efficiencies of the two types of entity, which is what we were discussing. Fraud included, the public sector has been able to administer its insurance programs for about 1/4 of the administrative costs that the private sector has.

patd, I suspect you are correct.

bunch of dang left-wing pinko commies
castro would be proud

jax, you know that you haven't "paid in" retirement money for SSI in the same sense that you might contribute to your 401(k) - it just feels like it. If you don't get your military pension, come back here - we'll stick up for it just like we stick up for SSI. But unlike the SSI you may or may not ever see because of an increasing pool of beneficiaries and diminishing pool of workers to contribute, you should be among a diminishing pool of military retirees as the boomers who were Vietnam vets die off.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/beware-the-great-depression-an.html#comment-172296

LOL

Pogo,
If SSI was really an insurance it would have reserves and risk based securitization. It isn't...It is based solely on the gov't ability to confiscate whatever is required to keep it solvent....no private insurance can do that.

Veterans Day:

Senseless Fun with facts

http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/facts_for_features_special_editions/012781.html

'...for 35 years. She was able to raise their children and never had to work outside the home..."

jax, and all she got from him was $5700 plus room and board for 35 yrs as a companion/domestic/nanny? too bad there's not a gauge that can be used for the value of being a wife. whether being married to a rich guy or not, it's still work.

btw, why isn't she taking advantage of being paid benefits that are a percentage of his benefits? they were married for a least 10 years. even his ex-wife (if he had one for requisite years) would qualify for that.

Patd,
Don't misunderstand, I don't get the impression that she had to do alot of housework. That's just what he had to pay to get her qualified for SSI.

We didn't dwell on it alot he was just telling me this to show how screwed up the system was.

jax, are you sorry now that you ever brought up the whole revolting story of this allegedly lying, greedy lawyer acquaintance of yours? let that be a less to you. never mess with lab rats.... even pinko commie ones.

jax, that's only because government has imposed those reserves on private insurance companies and exempted its own programs from those requirements - it is a distinction that does not mean that SSI is not insurance. I don't disagree that SSI could have, and probably should have been set up differently, but that doesn't mean it isn't insurance. In a sense, its risk- based securitization is the tax base that serves as its premiums (based on expected taxable income from which to collect revenue) and the US Treasury, and of course its "risk pool" is its beneificiaries - which is us. Thus far, the government hasn't declared it insolvent and placed it in receivership, unlike more than a few insurance companies who failed despite their government imposed reserves and their risk based securities.

less = lesson

patd,
He didn't lie and I understand greed well enough. It did really told me alot about the blog's population. I found very little pragmatism....mostly dogma and thinly veiled insults....laughs....best get back to work....

Pogo,
Gotta run...but I have to say that although I don't always agree with you I usually walk away a little smarter than before or at least with some food for thought....thanks...

mqw -

Every time I hear about Castro , I think about the gold telephone scene in God Father II.

jax, by the way, if you'll recall, it was the democratic presidential candidate in 2000 who suggested reforming the SS trust fund to ensure its solvency and who was ridiculed by the republican candidate, who urged privatization and stock market-based investment (unsuccessfully, thankfully) of that system and eventually sent his Treasury Secretary to Congress to beg for an urgent $150 billion (at last count, and rising) bailout for our largest private insurer, notwithstanding the reserves and risk based securitization required by the government which should have ensured its solvency.

Jax, under the most liberal interpretation, the most she could have earned would have been the 16-credits you cited. But, because she was born after 1929, she would need 40-credits (ten years of covered work) to be eligible for any retirement benefits.

If it's the case that she's receiving benefits with less than 40 credits, I would really like to know the chapter and verse of the provision in law granting her those benefits.

She would be eligible for $103/month in benefits _if_ she worked from 1998 thru 2007 earning $5,700 each year. Under that scenario, her work history far exceeds what you provided (a total of $5700 spread over two years).

If she worked any less than the 10 years in my example, she would be entitled to nothing what she receive as a spousal benefit.

nothing what = nothing except what

jax - same here - have a good one.

Given today's date and the economic discussion maybe a better image would be this one of the Bonus Army on the grounds of the capital in 1932 -

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/5845/bonusarmybp6.png

another communistic trait' no sense of humour
i learned a long time ago not to take anyone
even myself to seriously' contrary to what some people
here think I'm not the enemy' life is not black and white
usually turns out to be a shade of grey

damn, flatus, you know a whole lot more about eligibility for SS retirement benefits than I ever want to. :-)

pats i was pissed off until your 3:20 post -----great

mqw - and you call yourself conservative?

Social Security Humor-----

A doctor on his morning walk noticed an older lady sitting on her
front step smoking a cigar,
so he walked up to her and said, 'I couldn't help but notice how happy
you look! What is your secret?'

'I smoke ten cigars a day,' she said. 'Before I go to bed, I smoke a
nice big joint. Apart from that,
I drink a whole bottle of Jack Daniels every week, and eat only junk
food. On weekends, I pop pills,
get laid, and don't exercise at all.'

'That is absolutely amazing! How old are you?'

'Twenty-four,' she replied.

here's a kid that could replace tweety in a heart beat.
i give you 5th grader damon weaver interviewing joe biden. you have to wade thru some preliminaries before he does his stuff, but it's worth it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQ3ytKYMpDk&feature=related

Pogo, just what I picked-up in the last half hour off their web site. You and I both know that, when talking about government benefits for the general population, if it sounds too good to be true, it is.

I agree totally with your appreciation of the excellent ability of the government workforce to provide very cost effective program administration as compared to programs administered by the private sector.

In Florida, we carried it a couple of steps further. Municipalities grouped together to create retirement programs for municipal employees. The returns on those programs compared very favorably with privately administered programs of similar risk levels.

We also pooled together creating our own insurance company to cover accident, property, and liability coverage for our cities. Virtually all the work required in administering the program was done by city workers volunteered by member cities. For a short period, I was treasurer of our (quite large) pool--the only elected official so honored.

" it was the democratic presidential candidate in 2000 who suggested reforming the SS trust fund to ensure its solvency and who was ridiculed by the republican candidate,"

And don't forget that the media then started the "lock box" jokes to bring home the point that Gore was supposedly a complete moron. It was a complete pile-on. Unbelievable that they cheered Bush into office by the constant ridicule of Gore.

Patsi, as soon as he said it (the lock box) I thought it was idiocy; nothing in the intervening years have caused me to change my mind. He still got my vote, but...

pogo
i don't label myself as anything but a hard-working
tax-paying fellow american
your enemy is somewhere in the mountains of
pakistan
i always post with a smile on my face
lighten-up

FYI ;

FRONTLINE Presents
Boogie Man: The Lee Atwater Story
Tuesday, November 11, 2008, from 9-10:30 P.M. ET on PBS

Well, I've been doing a little figurin' and it turns out I can afford to retire .. ohhhh.. about 5 years after I die.

Today, in Canada, it is officially called Remembrance Day. Years ago it was to commemorate those who fought and died in WWI and WWII, but now it commemorates those who are continuing to serve our country. We wear poppies, we have a national service at the war memorial, but little towns all over have small ceremonies at city squares.

Seems to me, anyway, that war on two fronts does NOT count as an economic boom these days because: outsourcing to Blackwater-like firms means the spoils do not go to the victor, but to the victor and his (pretend) army of cohorts. Also, during WWI and WWII, ALL able-bodied soldiers served, leaving an economy back home that was taken up by women. Times have changed. And so has the military industrial complex.

flatus, I'd have to say part of the efficiency of government programs lies in the antiquated nature (by private sector standards at least) of the facilities and systems in place used by the government employees administering the systems, to say nothing of the lower wages on average paid to those workers. I'd love to see private versus public administrative pyramids, both by number of employees and administrative expense at each level. I doubt that they would look anything like each other.

mqw - if I were any lighter I'd float.

"lock box" was an unfortunate choice of terms, indeed - between that and tweed, Gore's positions got killed along with his candidacy.

mqw - I forgot to add a smiley face to my comments to you. :-) That better?

oh, and don't forget the media jumping all over "invented the internet". What Al Gore HAS been is always on the cutting edge. HE embraced ecology when republicans sneered about tree-huggers. HE gave an interview in the early 90s describing what the internet world would look like. People thought he was nuts. Sure, crazy like a fox, I say.

Music Mavens and Beatles Afficianados perk up your ears. It seems Eleanor Rigby was not only real, but you will be able to buy a piece of history (one of you does have $2 million don't you?)

http://uk.reuters.com/article/entertainmentNews/idUKTRE4AA5WN20081111

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/beware-the-great-depression-an.html#comment-172264

Pogo,

James Garner, four legged wander calves, and rollar coasters are grandfathered in as acceptable. While I'm sure he is a pleasant man, since I have never met him, I can hope that Sen. McCain will not ever include me in "My friends"

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/beware-the-great-depression-an.html#comment-172329

Tylenol,

Did you happen to go by my blog today? I used a Canadian singer's piece, "A Pittance of Time" that uses images of Canadian veterans.

jamie - Sir Paul is a better bet I'd reckon.

pogo
to hold hate in your heart for another' to protect it
and nurture it '' treat as something precious and
valuable only serves to shorten your own life-span

I just visited your blog, Jamie. Thank you.

ty,
Yep, Al is a good one. Too bad we use marketing and "feel good about themism" by about too much by half, to say nothing of the ability to tell a joke to elect our leaders.

mqw - I really don't know what the hell you're talking about - I don't hate anyone here - certainly not you. And I either coined on stole the abbreviation GS (for giggle-snort) because it's what I do so much reading posts here. No, really, I enjoy almost everyone here. Arguing and disagreeing is part of my life - it doesn't equate to hate.

on = or (damn typos - now I DO hate those)

I feel the same way about Obama, Pogo. He's a brilliant man. Booksmart and Lifesmart. And Republicans tried to sneer at community organizing, but it didn't work this time. And I think Clinton was likely the smartest (most intelligent) president EVER, just too bad he couldn't keep his pecker in his pants for 8 years.

Well, I think I'll mosey along. Got a maverick dog to round up before I round up the maverick kid.

true enough, ty, true enough. Later, all.

Pogo---i have been very impressed by the veterans hospital---on a scale from one to ten,,i have to give them a ten the last 4-5 years,,,,it is all so well organized,,,,,from ordering medicine, appointments, a very short waiting time if any to see the doc,,i wonder if jax would approve of them----they are a government run program aren't they?

thats good to know
''president palin 2012''

I got this email today...

"Barack atah Illinois, Elohenu melech ha'olam,
hoo-ray p'ri ha-electoral landslide.
Amen"

Looks like the gas prices have hit bottom for a while. After a steady decline over the past 2 months with out a raise. gas was $1.65 this morning and by afternoon had bounced back up to $1.69

Jack

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/beware-the-great-depression-an.html#comment-172337

Pogo, Did you read the article? It was Sir Paul who mailed her the document to use for her charity.
It seems his previous statement that she was fictional was a bit of fiction.

maybe obama and the democrats won't screw
things up so bad
palin might be able to set things straight in 2012

BTW,

Here is the Eleanor Rigby statue that is on the Beatles Walk in Liverpool. It was created and donated by another British performer, Tommy Steele

http://world.lib.ru/img/g/galina_w_r/thedelightofawildbeastoragod/liverpool20rigby20statue.jpg

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/beware-the-great-depression-an.html#comment-172348

KGC That may be the first time Illinois has been called blessed, and God doesn't usually get thanked for landslides.

The Sue's Place blog is an interesting place

http://sue.polinsky.com/

"maybe obama and the democrats won't screw
things up so bad "

LOL

I know this is a bit of troll bait but when you look at the standard set by the current administration, what would "screw things up" look like in an Obama administration?

Jack

i know one thing for sure' when you think things
couldn't be any worse'' it could get worse

Looking for help from Florida TrailMixers:

Can any of you Florida folks or others help me get a copy of today's St. Petersburgh Times?

I'm willing to pay big bucks to cover your time and trouble for mailing it to me. My daughters are quoted in an article by Wes Allison, who spoke to them while they were on the outside-looking-in when the Obamas visited the White House.

My ex got it online, but of course my bratty kids want something more genuine. Online the headline reads: "Obamas meet Bushes at White House," but I have no idea whether their comments actually made it into print.

If you can help please respond here or contact me,
jojovanb at hotmail dot com.

Thanks,
EdVB

Oops, let's try that email addy again:

jojovanb27 at hotmail dot com

If anyone could help, I'd really appreciate it.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/beware-the-great-depression-an.html#comment-172346

I get all my meds from the VA and without the VA I would have none what so ever. Recently had a couple of screws put in my ankle to surgically repair a break. Everyone was professional and very nice. Everyone should have access to this kind of medical service.

Torpedo----what is also very impressive is that once that u step into the building of the V A it seems that everyone is very friendly, helpful, it does have a club quality feel to it also----like we all respect all that is there--i have talked to some vets that tell me about their dark feelings that they won't tell anyone else,,and if im not mistaken some are happy to be there ?? a lot of volunteers that offer coffee,,yes i wish that all americans had this type of quality health care. I think that Hillarys campaign had a lot to do with it also??

In the news channels they sometimes show the soldiers, that have suffered a loss of limb, and in rehab, it gives one a pretty good idea of the suffering in there ----when u are in the V A hospital u can see it up close, u can see them in rehab (dear the pain and some screams, crying)and know why they deserve special attention,,,, it is a shame that the government cares so much for the physical condition that it takes for a soldier to go into combat,each soldier is considered a component of an over all unit,,and to those ends (wars) they are important, and supply what is needed.
they don't really think of them in individual terms too much(with good reason mostly)but---------

-Another government program that is run well as far as i know, is the ability to buy a house under the gi bill----that was how i bought my first house,,,the gov back up the loan that the banks give----is that a hand out---i dont think so---

-the health insurance that the washington critters are another gov run program, for both the R's and the D's,,,i wonder is jax ever got a sba loan,,,another gov, program?.

Why was Mr. Bush, who did his utmost to destroy our liberty and our democracy, chosen to receive the Intrepid Freedom Award today (on the Intrepid)?

This award supposedly recognizes "world leaders who embody the ideals of freedom and democracy."

Mr. Bush embodies a lot of things, but freedom and democracy are not among them.

(Except, of course, Mr. Bush, Mr. Cheney, Mr. Rumsfeld, Mr. Rove et.al. are free, even though they should have been impeached, tried and incarcerated for their numerous inane, immoral, illegal and treasonous acts.)

Obama hugging Duckworth following laying of wreath for Veterans' Day

http://www.comcast.net/slideshow/news-veteransday1111/

Thanks Jamie----i saved that picture of Duckworth,

This time around what will save us is the worldwide bailout.

tt

Deserted? Tiptoe, time to sweep and wax-mop the halls of TrailMix Tower. I'll dump the trash cans...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvYA1gZ-TC0

Where's the buffer??

"Can any of you Florida folks or others help me get a copy of today's St. Petersburgh Times?

I'm willing to pay big bucks to cover your time and trouble for mailing it to me. My daughters are quoted in an article by Wes Allison, who spoke to them while they were on the outside-looking-in when the Obamas visited the White House."

ed, give the times a call at their answer desk (727) 893-8176 or info station (727)) 893-8911 for back copies or clippings. they'll mail it to you. also can go online of course at sptimes.com

patd,
Have you tried calling the paper (or getting on line to check) and asking them to send it?

When I lived in Ca., I ordered the Houston papers to be mailed to me.

oops! That was to Ed FROM patd. Got it.

I'm with you 100% on this point. I may have posted this in here before, but Clive Cook at the Financial Times made this very point several days ago.

This is perhaps the most important reason of many why I could never vote McCain, because I knew he would be more than happy to let war be the economic engine, thereby feeding a defense industry that is wasteful, bloated, inefficient, probably corrupt yet hungrier than ever.

I believe Obama should and will focus on his energy plan to create this overarching economic driver. It is the best choice by far, killing several birds with one stone.

First, it would develop and manufacture products here, creating jobs. It would vastly expand the still-nascent green energy industry. It would lead to energy-efficient cars and investments in electric delivery infrastructure.

And If the products are good and competitively-priced, they can be exported to a world desperately needing efficient energy products thereby reducing the trade deficit.

It also helps address the urgently important problems of climate change in a way that helps the whole world by providing useful products.

Seems like a no-brainer to me.

I just hope Obama puts the emphasis on natural energy resources -- sun, wind and geothermal. There seems to be this thinking that a step which exploits natural gas, "clean" coal and the rest of the fossil-fueled "all of the above" is necessary. But I fear that will just replace one doomed energy source for another.

Delivering these alternative, but still-fossil-based fuels like natural gas will still require the creation of delivery infrastructure, and we will be less likely to invest in the truly long-term strategy of delivering natural electicity to people.