Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Since we spoke yesterday of misinformation in the media, I offer this "translation" for your amusement:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4_MsrsKzMM

chloe?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--tGSHpXkRg

Good morning all. Patsi- hey, responded at end of thread!
Patd- great video!

since the cost of health care is now a big percentage of individual and corporate expense, if the gov't instituted universal single payer (aka s-word medicine), would it be less economically burdensome to the nat'l treasury than all these newly proposed bail-outs? it sure would lift a substantial burden from the shoulders of the working family and maybe from gm and its ilk in the process. talk about stimulating the economy. mom and dad joe blow would have a lot more change in their pockets to spend sans monthly med. insurance payments.

Got it, Sea -- it'll feel like the holiday season has begun!

Excellent point, patd....

course the poor ole insurance giants, those greedy despots with their 300% + profits, will whine.....

Speaking of Gods:

HUGE EXOPLANET NEWS ITEMS: PICTURES!!!
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/11/13/huge-exoplanet-news-items-pictures/

autism frequency used to be 4 in 10,000; now it's 1 in 150.

according to Mrs Grodin.........who is the recipient of the monies generated by the Imus live show in Providence this morning for her autism research foundation......

solar.............who is clancy?

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/11/the_clinton_sos_speculation_re.php

"Clinton, In Chicago,Has Private Business,Fuels Cabinet Spec"

Good Morning all.
Chloe
Give us a shout out! I hope all is well in your world.You can e-mail me anytime at tbassham@cfl.rr.com

sturge, re clancy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnBpVctzOnI

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."
— Edward Gibbon

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
— Epicurus

"Those who beat their swords into plowshares will end up plowing for those who didn't."
— author unknown

"And they'll beat swords into ploughshares and ploughshares into swords, and so on and so on, and back and forth."
— Yehuda Amichai (Sort of An Apocalypse, 1958)

"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from a religious conviction."
—Blaise Pascal

"The more intense has been the religion of any period and the more profound has been the dogmatic belief, the greater has been the cruelty and the worse has been the state of affairs."
— Bertrand Russell (6 March 1927)

A Zen mantra goes: "great doubt: great awakening; little doubt: little awakening; no doubt: no awakening."

"God was my Co-Pilot . . . but we crashed in the Andes, and I had to eat him."
—author unknown

"When did I realize I was God? Well, I was praying and I suddenly realized I was talking to myself."
—Peter O'Toole

"With deep men, as with deep wells, it takes a long time for anything that falls into them to hit bottom. Onlookers, who almost never wait long enough, readily suppose that such men are callous and unresponsive—or even boring."
—Nietzsche

"If God lived on earth, people would break his windows."
—Jewish Proverb

Craig.... been hearing a lot of discussion on what to do about the auto industry this past week on the Diane Rehm Show.... the consensus seems to be that something needs to be done to help it.....

can't believe I'm up this morning..... great football game last night.. even though the Patriots lost by a field goal in overtime......

great discussion on the bible from last night..... it was a pleasure to read.... thanks!

due to needing to finish my work and driving my mother back and forth to the eye doctor last week (she had cataract surgery), I didn't have time to deal with this blog for a few days...... some of you are asking for Chloe..... did something happen to her?..... hope she is doing well.....

Team Obama has been so good at keeping secrets. Why this leak? If Hil'ry doesn't get the SOS post, it's just going to antagonize a lot of us Hil'ry supporters.

If she doesn't get it (or doesn't want it), I hope it goes to Richardson. I can not think of a more inept person for the job than John Kerrey. Wait, yes I can. Condi Rice.

If we don't bail out GM, we will regret it.

People have mentioned the jobs for GM employees themselves, and jobs for their suppliers, but I've seen no mention about what happens to all the warranties on the GM cars owned by Americans. Will folks be totally out of luck if some component of their car fails while it's under warranty?

The fallout from GM's failure will appear in so many unexpected places that it's better to err in the side of bailing out over pulling the plug.

FWIW, my last three new cars have been Chevrolets. I was pleasantly surprised with each of them. And the price was right.

"...driving my mother back and forth to the eye doctor last week ..." renee@7:41

I drove the car home after each of my cataract surgeries--figured it was safer than Stinky driving.

Chloe is awol--hopefully not for long--wouldn't want to declare her a deserter.

Sometimes people need a break. That's a good thing.

If we bail out GM, it definitely needs to come with conditions that brings GM in line with other, more successful, auto manufacturers. As it stands, GM is a dinosaur that can no longer sustain itself and needs to die a natural death. No more life support "as is."

Pat Buchanan agrees with Barney Frank on this issue? That's all I need to know that this is a bad deal. There must be conditions. I believe it was called "welfare to work" during the Clinton years. Corporate welfare queens are a huge drain on the economy.

This is the thing that I still don't understand. (Any economists out there?) If AIG had GM credit-default swaps, and if we've bailed out AIG, why do we still need to bail out GM? GM is already covered by AIG.

The whole think stinks to high heaven & Hank Paulson is the stinkiest of the stinkers. It sure looks like he's just siphoning money to his finacial district cronies while he still has the chance.

Let GM fail. They've been making lousy cars for decades, and will continue to, because Detroit just doesn't get it. They haven't "gotten it" for 40 years. A bailout just delays the inevitable.

one word for what the GM folks think of americans: Hummer

screw 'em.

Of course, GM will get a bailout, because socialism is en vogue these days. I heard last night that $25 bil was already approved tied into last month's Wall Street bailout. Old saying: "Don't throw good money after bad".

May I have $25 bil please? I promise I'll spread it around.

If GM fails, what happens to its retirees?

ahhhh...... Chloe is taking a break...... thanks for the info....

Flatus.... my mother..... who will be 81 in 3 weeks..... has always been a "nervous" driver..... she didn't learn how to drive until the age of 50....

we live in a rural area..... and the distances we can drive to do things are far different from those that live in more populated areas..... I had to drive to her house..... drive her to the hospital...... drive her home..... and then drive myself home..... just the driving alone takes about 3 hrs......
then she wanted me to take her to her follow up appointments as she was still nervous..... you know the follow ups only take a few minutes.... but I still had to do all that driving..... hey.... she's my mother.... and I love her...

sounds like Stinky is a "nervous" driver too..... :0)

"If GM fails, what happens to its retirees?"

patsi, lumped in with all those other retirees from busted plans like some of the unions, municipalities and states i guess. wasn't some of the earlier bailout to go to the insurance backing up certain retirement plans?

reminds me of the laurel and hardy line: "look what a mess you've gotten us into now"

I'm watching GMA.
Breaking news!!!

The pregnant man is pregnant again.

And the most worthless man in the world (aka Prince Charles) turns 60.

Anything else going on?

Jack

correction: "another fine mess you've got us into"

"reminds me of the laurel and hardy line: "look what a mess you've gotten us into now"

patd -- That's what Solar always says to me. lol

That truism about General Motors was so widely known at the time that Al Capp invented a character "General Bullmoose" who was willing to destroy the town of Dogpatch for profit. When the cartoon became a musical, the following song was in the show:

WHAT'S GOOD FOR GENERAL BULLMOOSE

General Bullmoose:
(Speaking
What’s good for General Bullmoose is what’s good for the U.S.A.
And by Dow Jones and all their little averages,
Don’t you forget it! Right, boys?

Men:
(Singing)
Right!
Three rousing rahs and a few hussahs
And a hip-hip-hip hooray
What’s good for General Bullmoose
Is good for the U.S.A.

General Bullmoose:
(Speaking)
We’ll show these hillbillies what’s what!
Right, boys?

All but General:
(Singing)
Right!
He makes the rules
And he intends to keep it thataway
What’s good for General Bullmoose
Is good for the U.S.A.

General Bullmoose got his comeuppance in the musical and the people prospered and he continued to be rich.

Now we have learned that if you destroy the town and throw the middle class out of work, General Motors dies as well.

Patd

I think the federal government covers failed pensons. So, lose we lose, win we lose.

Jack

"sounds like Stinky is a "nervous" driver too..... :0) "

I will cop to being a really bad driver. I sort of slowly meander, and drive a little too defensively -- I am convinced the guy with his blinker on is lying.

Men HATE driving behind me, because if I start thinking seriously about something, I start to drive slower and slower and slower. I've always said I cost John Kerry the election in Williamson County, TN when I was living out in the country.

"federal government covers failed pensons"

jack, and who covers the fed govt when the ink runs out in the mint presses?

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/as-gm-goes-so-goes-the-nation.html#comment-173130

Patd

That opening may be even more appropriate than you know. We need to check with Craig, but I believe this is the one year anniversary in this place that now seems to have given a permanent home to the little roving blog we all enjoy.

William Ayers is on GMA

He is an expert in education.
It explains a lot about our education system.

Jack

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/as-gm-goes-so-goes-the-nation.html#comment-173138

Have some more hormones and chemicals in your parent, air, and water baby dear. Today the brain. Tomorrow the extra head.

"...if I start thinking seriously about something, I start to drive slower and slower and slower..."

take heart, patsi, they say the smarter you are the worse you pilot a plane (or drive a car). the higher the iq, the greater the distractions? or is it as you alluded to, the more you know the more you know the other fellow doesn't know.

Sturgeone

I'm getting my exercise this morning running around dodging lightning bolts, but it was worth it for the laugh from this one.

"God was my Co-Pilot . . . but we crashed in the Andes, and I had to eat him."
—author unknown

Patd

Print money? How 20th century.
Today we create money with a key stroke, no ink needed. I suppose you're one of those dinqsaurs who pay with cash. just swipe the card.

Jack

Kill your TV, Jack. It's obsolete now anyway. Don't say that you are, too.

jack, according to champ looks like we're both dinosaurs... i'm just more extincty than you

they say the smarter you are the worse you pilot a plane (or drive a car). the higher the iq, the greater the distractions? or is it as you alluded to, the more you know the more you know the other fellow doesn't know.

Posted by: patd | November 14, 2008 8:55 AM

Does that make George W Bush the greatest pilot to ever take to the skies?

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/as-gm-goes-so-goes-the-nation.html#comment-173155

This is what sent several people to jail years ago when it was discovered that all those entities hadn't properly funded their retirement plans. The money that was supposed to be safe even if everything else went down had been financing the bad decision.

champ, well someone did point out yesterday on the imus show that mccain as a pilot made w look like an astronaut.

Several financial analysts have suggested that bankruptcy may be abetter option for GM than a bail-out. This would allow them more flexibility less gov't strings attached.
If still needed, a bailout could be negotiated that
would be more favorable to hte taxpayer. It seems to make sense but I haven't been able to reconcile the pros and cons just yet...

jack,
Have you noticed the price of building materials coming down yet?

Hmmmm I've always been proud that the ability to drive was one of my few real talents. Now after that IQ business, I'm not so sure.

Anyway. Typical californian. Learned to drive on a ranch between 10 and 12. Got my license at 15. That makes 54 years behind a wheel without a moving violation and only one speeding ticket (deserved a lot more of those, but only got caught once)

These days, I have to remind my self to adhere to speed limits since the reaction time isn't what it used to be.

Jamie,
aren't moving violations and speeding tickets one and the same? my driving time frame is very close to yours. Had a job for over 30 years where I had to drive cust to cust daily.

"they say the smarter you are the worse you pilot a plane (or drive a car). "

patd -- I wish I'd heard that saying when I took Driver's Ed at age 14. My teacher said, "You are quite possibly the worst driver I've ever had in a class. But you don't exactly do anything wrong, so I can't flunk you."

Glad you brought up General Bullmoose, Jamie! I'd forgotten him!

"... you know the follow ups only take a few minutes.... but I still had to do all that driving..... hey.... she's my mother.... and I love her...

sounds like Stinky is a "nervous" driver too..... :0) " renee@8;21

Good for you Renee! Lots of people don't figure these things out until it's too late.

Stinky never was a confident driver--she turned-in her license a few years ago; the world is safer because of her selfless act. :)

I quit reading al capp after he came up with "joanie phonie" what a creep.............he stayed too long at the fair.......

Jax

lumber and Sheetrock have been down for some time. I haven't seen copper products coming down but then I haven't bought much. There is a lot of high dollar copper in the system.
I've switched most of my plumbing repairs to PEX tubing. Doing the substitution part of the supply and demand formula.

Imported stuff is up, I can't find those cheap dollar cabinet pulls. They are now $1.50.

Time to get at it.

Later

Jack

mornin' all.

LOL at the driving discussion. I must be a dolt living in a town full of Mensa members. And I always knew Mrs. P was smarter than me - now I have something to confirm it. She'll be thrilled - I just hope she doesn't go driving around to celebrate.

Jamie -- you inspired me to look up Al Capp's other "secondary" characters...some great ones like Jubilation T Cornpone, old toot-your-own-horn-pone.

sturge-- I'd forgotten about the Joan Baez thing...

http://www.lil-abner.com/other.html

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/as-gm-goes-so-goes-the-nation.html#comment-173177

Torpedo

True. Guess I was thinking along the idea of accidents or other dangerous actions i.e. drunk driving.

Pedal to the Metal is just a normal state. :--) Of course, I grew up in an era when you actually could do 90 + on a California freeway, and my 52 DeSoto that was given to me at 16 could really haul - - -

actually, while all speeding tickets are moving violations, not all moving violations are speeding tickets.

From Benny Hill:

"God is dead." - Fred

"Fred is dead." - God

I haven't said much, but I have been off the last two weeks because the Chrysler plant we ship has been down. A guy I went to school with in Adrian works as a car salesman for the Chevy dealer in Adrian. His Faebook status updates a few weeks ago said "Go McCain!" Then he said that he hoped Obama helps him sell more cars. One day he had a 2 or 3 people who were supposed to buy cars from him that day. He said, "Go Obama!" But, none of them ended up buying cars that day or any other day since then. As I said to my Mom last night, "Prince Charles is now 60 and still waiting to be King!"

jack, see if you can find cheap pulls from Mexico instead of cheap pulls from China - the US/MX exchange rate is as high as I've seen it in the 8 or so years I've been following it.- Almost 13 pesos to the dollar.

One good habit this election gave me was reading Andrew Sullivan. His site has the the same Veg-O-Matic quality this thread has always had. Except his range isn't as far reaching.
Al Capp, biblical theory, exoplanets, kittens, phony birth certificates, real birth certificates, plumbing supplies, the price of scrap barges in Mobile, cruelty, kindness, commerce, cooking tips, ....... and a dash of politics.

Anyway, there's this fellow Peter Schiff, who's been calling this economic collapse with dead on clarity for 2 years now, and Sullivan caught a clip of Mr. Schiff appearing on cable news with other "experts". If there's one thing U-Tube has done, it's given us an easy way to see who has foresight, and who is just another bone carrying jive-ass.
Hint :
Ben Stein has lost a fortune if he followed his own advice.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/11/vindication.html

Time to feed my wolverine.

Anon

It is that conversational quality about this blog that I really appreciate. If you put any group of people in a room, they rarely stick to just one subject and over the years with all the comings and goings, it has attracted all sorts of people with a wide range of interests and expertise.

Eclectic R Us

And for the hit and run types: Today's Savage Chickens

http://www.savagechickens.com/

Ping -

Charles Maxwell and Daniel Yergin were on Charlie Rose last night talking about energy, the clip isn't hot yet, but here's the link -

http://www.charlierose.com/schedule/

Yergin is updating the "The Prize".

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/11/13/MNIQ144185.DTL&type=politics&tsp=1

Breakdown of the prop 8 vote in SF and a pretty good analysis

Two bad news items in the economy this morning. US retail sales continue to drop like a stone and Europe is now in a recession.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/15/business/economy/15econ.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/15/business/worldbusiness/15euro.html

And I don't even want to mentions Freddie Mac's $25B 3rd quarter loss (but I just did anyway).

I just had to check in to see how everyone was doing this morning and am truly humbled to hear such nice things from some of you.

Patd, Thanks for the youtube! I didn't even know it existed. (You always seem to know just what to say).

Tony, Thanks for sharing your email address. You can email me anytime too. chloe@doubt.com But not to worry, all is well. (I hope it is with you too?)

Flatus, I thought I'd better report in before you reported me as a deserter. Thanks for giving me some lead way. :)

Sturgeone, loved this one from your post: "When did I realize I was God? Well, I was praying and I suddenly realized I was talking to myself." Peter O'Toole

Solar, I can't hear you. :)

Renee, Hope your mother is doing well after her cataract surgery.

Sea, I'll place my order when I get back today.

Now I'm going to the first showing (in Houston anyway) of the new James Bond movie (Quantum Of Solace). I've never missed one since the early 60's and enjoy them as much as ever. Daniel Craig is one of the best so far (imo), since Sean Connery.

Have a good day!

patsi, lil abner, marrin' sam and the economy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eow041tUPBA

"Al Capp, biblical theory, exoplanets, kittens, phony birth certificates, real birth certificates, plumbing supplies, the price of scrap barges in Mobile, cruelty, kindness, commerce, cooking tips, ....... and a dash of politics."

Love it, Anon. Especially the price of scrap barges in Mobile!

Jamie agreed -

Knowing how to make Irish Soda Bread, and that I should leave my sunken barge where it is, has made me a better American.

"No topic tyranny !"

Anon...
I rarely have time to look at links..... glad I looked at your link to Andrew Sullivan's site.....

Peter Schiff sounds like a financial genius.....
BTW..... looked at his wiki entry..... he was Ron Paul's economic advisor during his recent presidential run...... guess that makes Champ's backing of Paul ...... which according to some here was "stupid"..... not seem so far off the mark now....

Jamie..... I LOVE all the back and forth also..... as long as it's civil....

We did not bail out the steel industry, and managed,,,we should not bail out the auto industry either,,,will the auto employees pensions follow ?if we do then can we bail out small businesses---i kinda doubt it-----it is now the dems, turn to raid the treasury,, their friends ( union) need help??? the only diff, is that they are not as smart, and greedy as the R's, we might get a little kiss along the way to getting raped by them---but no real diff.

Champ planed FomalHajb, if it wasn't so hard to spell my new home planet i would change my nick,,,the real big thinkers are already planning our exodus from egypt ,,,but this time it will be all of us and real---it will take over 100 years to get to wherever the next evolutionary phase takes at that time,,,right now evolution is a little stagnate ,very slow changes going on,,,but when it starts again-----yeeee haaa

Sturg i thought i read that name on your blog---will go see if i did, or not ,,,the only person on you list ( which i really liked) that had it right was Peter O'toole ----we are the true it, good to see u---have a meeting next tuesday about those homes,,,i don't expect too much,,,but i know that it will be a positive,,will let u know..thanks

Patsi---well,,,well,,,well,,you did!

Today on blistersyeahbutchannel
a group blog

Waz Up Republicans?

Cruisin by Mitty R
Chat and Chew by Sarah P
Show Me the Money Mike H.
Out Bad Spirits Out Bobby J
Learning to Roll My Eyes Tim P

Now here's something interesting - perhaps the first direct visual observation of planets circling another star.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/14/science/space/14planet.html?em

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/as-gm-goes-so-goes-the-nation.html#comment-173186

that was my point Pogo.

Chloe....

good to see you, my friend...... (uh, oh.... does that make me sound like McCain.... :0)

my mother is doing fine..... she actually had another follow up appointment this morning (who knew there were so many).... she called last night and said she was confident she could finally drive herself and that she hasn't seen colors so vividly in years..... and that's after getting only one eye done..... she gets the second one done during Thanksgiving week....

enjoy your movie!

Jamie,

I would never think you would have a drunk driving charge on your record. I was just pulling your chain about moving violations and questioning how a speeding ticket was not a moving violation since to speed you need to be moving. :)

another favorite lil abner character was the shmoo which we sure could use a lot of now.

http://www.lil-abner.com/shmoo.html

"The Shmoo believed that the only way to happiness was to bring happiness to others. Li'l Abner discovered Shmoos when he ventured into the forbidden Valley of the Shmoon, against the frantic protestations of Ol' Man Mose. "Shmoos," he warned, "is the greatest menace to hoomanity th' world has evah known." "Thass becuz they is so bad, huh?" asked Li'l Abner. "No, stupid," answered Mose, hurling one of life's profoundest paradoxes at Li'l Abner. "It's because they're so good!"

Corey -
I've been thinking about you up there ...... Knowing you're on the ground in the middle of this industrial house fire. I would pray for all you guys, but I'd just be talking to myself.

Thanks Patsi -
Now let me see if I can find something to get your blood flowing.

I must be honest about one thing good about this blog: My Mom likes to watch Jeopardy!. I was watching it with her last night. One of the categories was about current state "Governors". I was answering most of the questions, my Mom looked surprised at me. So, I have retained some political knowledge that I have learned since joining this place. So, yes, because of this place, I am able to answer more questions (especially politically oriented questions) on Jeopardy.

And as a follow up to the discussion about Nasa's recycled pee . . .

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/11/13/tasting-nasas-recycled-water/index.html

Torpedo.Vindecator -

That's one fine screen name.

A friend of mine the other day was talking about praying for me about something else and maybe even praying for herself. I told her that praying can help, even if it's for yourself. I know my Mom prayed for herself a lot over the last year or so when my Dad was still alive. I don't think there's any rules against praying for yourself or even just simply wishing all your troubles will go away.

I've mentioned one of my favorite blogs for a "black" persepective on issues is The Villager

http://electronicvillage.blogspot.com/

Today he is referencing the organization of the volunteers in the Obama campaign.

Lately he has been promoting a comedian who does political commentary with "This Week In Blackness"

http://thisweekinblackness.com/

I would be interested in feedback on what others think.

"Weird Al" Yankovic - I Lost On Jeopardy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hicZKvkPfAA

Sturg---Peter O'tool couda said thid

This is it,,and I am it,,,and you are it,,,and so is that ,,,and he is it,,,and she is it,,,,and it is it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and that is that ,,,,,and that is all folks----Bugs Bunny

Pogo
see Champs link above--much better article on our new home planet-----the comments no very good though

thid=this

"...because of this place, I am able to answer more questions..."

corey, maybe you've stumbled onto another preventive for the oldtimer's disease... you know like they say read more, do crossword puzzles everyday, exercise, drink red wine, socialize.... (i just threw in the wine drinking, but it does make it easier to socialize). trail mix, it wards off alzheimer's! wonder if craig can patent us...

Corey

I suspect praying is more effective than what I do, which is beat my head against the wall.
So you can pray for me , pray with me, you can even have a conversation with God about me.(if you get a reply from God about me would you pass it along? I'm just a bit curious)
I'm entirely comfortable with it as long as you don't ask me to lead the prayers. I tend to mumble my way through.

Jack

" let me see if I can find something to get your blood flowing. "

I figure you're up to the task....:)

Jamie, a few weeks ago before the election took place I was listening to NPR. They were talking to Obama volunteers. College kids who were going out across college campuses and registering fellow students so they could vote in the election. The word "Tireless" came to mind. Some of these kids would be out walking all day getting other students registered. There were prizes for the volunteers who got the most students registered. They talked to one volunteer. This girl sounded dead tired. She told how many kids she had registered that day, it was a lot. But, she was sad because there were so many more who weren't registered yet. She turned in her list of new registered voters and then said she was headed back out to register more voters that night.

Corey---that is perfect,,,i do believe that we should pray for our selves, and others ,,that is what is inferred when someone says i have good wishes for you----but when some institution insist that you pray their way,,,,i don't think it counts,,,like a hallmark card can never replace the one that is made the one that a son or daughter took their time and put their own thoughts on them, not someone else,,,i still have one of my sons, and he was 18 when he made it

Solar - I don't see a link from champ above.

Jack there has really only been one time when I got seriously involved with praying. When I was 16, a friend of mine who was 18 was diagnosed with a brain tumor and was dying. Our church had weekly hour-long prayer services for him. My friend died in June of '86, he was only 19.

jack, you can always fall back on the possum lodge's prayer:

"I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to, I guess."

Pogo---6:44 am

" a comedian who does political commentary "

I always think it's easy, until I see it done poorly ..... Then I remember how hard it really is.

oops, forgot to post link

http://www.redgreen.com/

Corey

I understand , been there and done that.
My "you" in the above comment was not aimed at any one person but was more directed toward those who do believe and do pray. IMNSHO, it does them some good and who am I to complain, as it does me no harm.

Jack

Sturg---it must have been a commentator on your blog,,,he listed all his credentials and the name clancy stuck out,,sorry i can't find it right now but when i do ill let u know

solar, thx - something must be wrong with my "find" function.

Fish Choose Their Leaders By Consensus

" Most of the time they reach a consensus to go for the more attractive of two candidates.

"It turned out that stickleback fish preferred to follow larger over smaller leaders," said Ashley Ward of Sydney University. "Not only that, but they also preferred fat over thin, healthy over ill, and so on. The part that really caught our eye was that these preferences grew as the group size increased, through some kind of positive social feedback mechanism."

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/11/081113140310.htm

KGC, Bethy

An interesting graphic on home morgage problem from the SFChronicle on bay area home mortgages.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?f=/c/a/2008/11/12/MNN0142MCG.DTL&o=0&type=realestate

Jack

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/as-gm-goes-so-goes-the-nation.html#comment-173230

jack, my feelings exactlty . . . about just about everything.

One of the local restaurants in Holland started a tradition many years ago where they let customers write their names on dollar bills and put them on the walls and other places in the restaurant. When 9-11 happened, they took down all the money and donated it to the Red Cross. That's what they have done ever since then. Sometimes donated the money to organizations, but lately to various individuals who are in need. Recently, one of the waitresses at the restaurant died from cancer. She was only 44. They are now selling pink t-shirts in her memory. The money will be donated to Hospice House of Holland, which is the place where my Dad died. So, I thought that was a great thing to do.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/as-gm-goes-so-goes-the-nation.html#comment-173212

thanks, it came to me via a random name generator that the email suggested that the Palin's used to name their children. I typed my real name in and that is what turned up. I kinda like it.

It reminds me of some 19th century crusading newspaper masthead.

Brown clouds dim Asia, threaten world's food -

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27704012/

Corey.....
great story about Hospice House of Holland.....
hope you put a few dollars bills on that wall.....

patd..... I've always got my trusty roll of duct tape next to me..... :0)....
and a hockey stick.....

Pogo
been thinking what u told whsky ----about the mexican peso---i agree, and think it will be even higher------but what has occured to me is the possibility to do import export from here and there?? is that something legally easy/ hard,,,,,i think that i have dual citizen ship,,was brought here when i was 5 years old.

So Cal ran a big earthquake drill yesterday, and Boing Boing has a post up about an online game running -

After Shock asks the key question: What will you do when the big one hits? The game runs for three weeks. Jump in anytime!

http://www.boingboing.net/2008/11/13/after-shock-earthqua.html

I just watched the House sub committee hearing on the bail out chaired by Kucinich.

Pretty clear that BOTH the Repubs and the Dems are fed up with the Bush administration.

It's leaving Bush in a wasteland with the delusion that he was a great war time President.

tt

OMG, pogo! That astronomical link...it's the eye of Mordor!

When I was young and worked in a steel mill in the summers in Cleveland to pay for college, the saying was, "The American economy is tied to the tail pipe of a car."

That was then.

tt

Solar'c - That's why it was sage advise to "pray in your closet" and not publicly like the Hypocrits; the kingdom of heaven is within. Having said that, religious organizations also do good work, and, to think that all societies haven't been set up relative to some sort of religious view (even in opposition to it would be a relationship)..well, God is everywhere.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/as-gm-goes-so-goes-the-nation.html#comment-173225

patd

That is my daily prayer.

My main hope in this world is if there is a God that she be at least as tolerant of me as the wife. If so I'm in good shape.

Jack

my other main hope for God is, she is not an English teacher, with a bug for grammar, spelling and punctuation.

Jack

Sun Microsystems to cut 5,000 to 6,000 jobs

http://venturebeat.com/2008/11/14/sun-microsystems-to-5000-to-6000-jobs/

Las Vegas Sands to lay off thousands in Macau
Sands, fast running out of cash and unable to find more in the usual credit markets, will cut as many as 11,000 construction jobs, according to the Associated Press, as it halts work on parts of its planned $12 billion development in the former Portuguese territory.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/las-vegas-sands-layoff-thousands/story.aspx?guid={F00C05E8-720D-44C4-9B8B-A14565E692D3}&dist=msr_1

Jack thanks --u had to bring me into this

my other main hope for God is, she is not an English teacher, with a bug for grammar, spelling and punctuation. :-)

From the Missing Religion File -

Russian Orthodox church stolen _ brick by brick

MOSCOW (AP) — Wanted: One missing Russian church. Last seen in July. Reward for its return. Orthodox officials in a central Russian region say an abandoned church building that was to be put back into use has been stolen by local villagers.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gYjUKKvRqU_5Mms_ociaA7O79XlwD94E8V080

Maybe God is a contractor.

Solarcrete

I am he as you are he

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqOKvonLrH8

solar - that's above my pay grade. My son has a Mexican Stratocaster and I buy Mexican beer from time to time, so whatever impediments exist must not be insurmountable. I just like seeing the exhange rate high so that tequila costs me less when we go there over Thanksgiving.

blue, then I may need to visit there "In the darkest depths of Mordor lived a girl so fair..."

"I've always got my trusty roll of duct tape next to me..... :0)....
and a hockey stick....."

renee, as uncle red would say, "keep your stick on the ice."

Jamie ---i love the beatles , and that song

thanks pogo---

Blue--u said,,
religious organizations do good work-----yes they do,,,when they are set up to be benevolent -not as profit organizations,,,even some non profit ones take advantage of the people that want to help others,,,,they will organize a few people and use their good will, and good work, and take 50% of the money collected,,have to pay for services u know,,,some huge churches in chicago have started this way,,,there are more chuches or as many ( it seems sometimes) as there are taverns,,i do like good will, they are not paid to go and distribute clothes that were donated,the Vets also come to your house to pick up clothes etc....used to belong to knights of columbus, until it got too political,,but overall we should organize our selves to do it---we don't need organizations,,,unless they are transparent ???thanks

. . . goo goo ga joob . . .

Torpedo

I just tried it and got Octavia Klinkhammer. Sticking with my new "Indian" name of Jamie Cuddles With Kittens is probably a better idea.

I googled " job layoffs "

Herman Miller on Tuesday said it will cut 400 to 650 jobs through job cuts, layoffs and buyouts -- mainly in West Michigan

Citigroup has begun big layoffs and is expected to cut at least 10000 jobs around the globe, ...

3800 workers will lose their jobs at Galveston's largest employer
Houston Chronicle, United States - Nov 12, 2008

Cessna cuts 665 jobs in Kansas, Oregon
CNNMoney.com - Nov 13, 2008

US Steel Announces North American Job Cuts
AHN - 14 hours ago
The layoffs are spread out among workers in US Steel plants in Pittsburgh; Gary, Indiana; River Rough, Michigan and Granite City, Illinois. ...

Granite factory cutting 81 jobs Belleville News Democrat

QVC announces 900 job cuts companywide; local impact unclear
TCPalm, FL - 4 hours ago

New York-based White & Case says the layoffs will include around 90 staffers and 70 associates. The firm felt the action as necessary in the current ...

Orrick Hetherington & Sutcliffe has becomes the latest US law firm to announce staff cuts with 75 redundancies across its US, Asian and European offices. ...

Layoffs in Colorado affect women most
Bizjournals.com, NC - 21 hours ago
Mass layoffs are job cuts involving at least 50 people from a single company and are calculated by the number of initial claims for unemployment insurance. ...

Riverside Furniture Corp. Announces Major Layoffs
KHBS/KHOG 40/29, AR - 13 hours ago
12, and that is when the layoffs are expected to be carried out. Tom Manskey of the Fort Smith Chamber of Commerce said recent job losses, including 700 ...

BJU announces plan to eliminate 55 jobs
Greenville News, SC - 16 minutes ago
Some of the employees will face their layoffs in about two weeks. Others will stay on through the end of the school year. Scoles said the job cuts are a ...

In Canada, the layoffs affect Hamilton and Erie. * Applied Materials Inc., the number one chip equipment maker, said on Wednesday it will slash 1800 jobs, ...

The cuts will be made through buyout offers and layoffs. Whirlpool Corp.: The Benton Harbor, Mich., company is laying off about 570 workers at a central ...

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=job+layoffs&btnG=Search+News

Luke 17:20-21 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain

20And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

that's where old jeebus let the cat outa the bag......

pogo, i'll see your "goo goo ga joob" with an "i am that i am"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_am_that_I_am

"In the Hindu Advaita Vedanta, the South Indian sage Ramana Maharshi mentions that of all the definitions of god, "none is indeed so well put as the biblical statement “I am that I am”". He maintained that although Hindu scripture contains similar statments, the Mahavakyas, these are not as direct as Jehovah. [1] Further the "I am" is explained by Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj as an abstraction in the mind of the Stateless State, of the Absolute, or the Supreme Reality, called Parabrahman. It is pure awareness, prior to thoughts, free from perceptions, associations, memories."

How does the buddhist monk order a hot dog?

"Make me one with everything."

Station Casinos, International Game Technology plan layoffs

Casino company to cut 40 workers; slot maker to let fewer than 500 go
--------------------------------
Las Vegas is going to be a ghost town before this thing is over, at least there'll be a nice set of ruins to camp in as we follow the tracks of Tom and Ma Joad back out to the "Promised Land" .

patd - you're way out of my depth now - I know Hindu's a religion and all the Beatles liked it, then Lennon didn't. I just kinda liked that song. I am the eggman, they are the eggmen, I am the walrus . . .

Celibate

In an ancient monastery in a faraway place, a new monk arrived to join his brothers in copying books and scrolls in the monastery's scriptorium. He was assigned as a rubricator on copies of books that had already been copied by hand.

One day he, asked Father Florian, "Does not the copying by hand of other copies allow for chances of error? How do we know we are not copying the mistakes of someone else? Are they ever checked against the original?"

Father Florian is set back a bit by the obvious logical observation of this youthful monk. "A very good point, my son. I will take one of the latest books down to the vault and compare it against the original."

Father Florian went down to the secured vault and began his verification.

After a day had passed, the monks began to worry and went down looking for the old priest. They were sure something must have happened. As they approached the vault, they heard sobbing and crying. When they opened the door, they found Father Florian sobbing over the new copy and the original ancient book, both of which opened before him on the table. It was obvious to all that the poor man had been crying his old heart out for a long time.

What is the problem, Reverend Father?" asked one of the monks.

"Oh my," sobbed the priest, "the word is 'celebrate'!"

Anon, Mrs. P, a QVC shopaholic, mentioned the QVC layoffs to me this morning. You know the retail world is in trouble when the people too lazy to drive to Walmart quit buying.

Hi, I have nothing to add to the blog today. it's been a hard week and I am very exhausted so going to sleep early.

I believe Obama's idea for bailing out the major auto makers with a mandate for greater fuel efficiency and "greener" vehicles is exactly the way to go.

I am off to bed.. good evening.

Tom

Patd

For a cross fertilization of western science and an eastern intuition,,,,not as a textbook or intrduction to the vedanta,,,the book that i told chloe about is a great read,,,for me it is all that i want to know about any belief --- i retain the information that B Espinosa,,and others alike,,along with evolution, cosmology,etc etc,,,and i come up ( at least for me) the understanding of who i--we are,,along with our organic earth???The Book ,on the taboo against knowing who you are--by Alan Watts

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/as-gm-goes-so-goes-the-nation.html#comment-173219

jack, LOL. I use the same method - works about as well as you suggest.

1972 Dow Jones closes above 1,000 for 1st time (1003.16)

Brother, Can You Spare A Dime?
The Bing Crosby version from 1931

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eih67rlGNhU

They used to tell me I was building a dream
And so I followed the mob

Brother Can You Spare a Couple Billion ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbiyLpIcLg8

there are more atheists, agnostics, theists, deists,,,,in our country than all of the organized religions put together here in the us----according to gallup polls, a cple of year back----they like the cat herd here at TM are hard to organize--cos of their independent type of thinking,,,,what a third part we would make,????

just noticed that craig is scheduled for 8pm with ko. our duty officer of the day is tasked with making sure he's out of the bath tub in time. also that he's typed his 3500 words today.... the goal is 70,000 by dec 1st isn't it?

Craig, my contribution:

pecuniary

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/as-gm-goes-so-goes-the-nation.html#comment-173276

ha, thanks, patd, closing in on 3,000 now, should have time for a bath by showtime

Pogo -
Thanks for chippin' in with the word count. I'll have to look that one up.

CHART IT: Compare beliefs of Catholics, other faiths
http://usatoday.com/news/graphics/2008_pew_religion/flash.htm

KGC,

Was there confusion about Prop 8? I haven't seen any articles if there was. I ask because I have seen several comments like in the SFG piece, that the voting appeared out of character to the expectations. Also, DW and I in our discussion confused each other as to what voting Yea or Nay represented. Some of these Initiative are written to be confusing

craig, another word for today: "perspicacious"

may you especially be most perspicacious tonight with the obernator.... as defined by wiki's second definition:
"...having the power of seeing clearly; quick-sighted; sharp-sighted."

Anon - it means nothing to me. :-)

Craig, another - persnickety

pecuniary, perspicacious, persnickety

It's like the scene in When Harry Met Sally

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6CtAauWe1U

I see the Army has its first female 4 star general.....hats off to her.

well, duty calls - gotta run, Have a good 'un.

ubiquitous........(omnipresent)

unctuous...........

"I've got a good one.......I want a LONG one......."

---George Carlin

oh sturge, "unctuous" is a great word. so fitting for someone we won't name having to be a guest bloviator tonight. merriam-web's 3rd def:
"full of unction ; especially : revealing or marked by a smug, ingratiating, and false earnestness or spirituality" says it so well.

and the word itself is so fun to say... reminds me of that strange character actress in some long ago play going on and on about the word "elbow". she would draw it out ...elll-boww... who was that? miriam hopkins? and what play?

correction: not the guest, but an alledged bloviator who may or may not have invited the guest. absolutely do not mean our gracious host who right now is probably playing with his rubber ducky in the tub.

I think publishers prefer books be written on an 8th grade level these days.

Matthews just did something that makes me crazy and I don't know if it is because he has inside information or if he is just mouthing off.

The beginning of the show one of his guests put forward that Clinton MIGHT be negotiating terms for a possible appointment

Now at the end of the show with other anti Hillary guests, he is saying that her DEMANDS are too extreme.

How in the space of one hour did we go from "might" to Absolute.

I hope they make an exception for Helen and CC.....

CC.......by the way, if it's not something youre keeping under your hat or playing close to the vest when you have half a chance could you maybe give a small idea of the process you and Ms Thomas are using to accomplish the book?

Champ
Not just these days, they alway have , at least those designed for a mass market. Readers Digest is the classic for this. But so is almost any news magazine.

Jack

Jamie

people leak to folks like Matthews for a variety of reasons. It is almost never to get the truth out.

Heard something , on NPR, about some comments being made that with the people that Obama is gathering around him it is starting to look like Clintons 3rd term.

I half caught it as I was working but I had to laugh. It looks like the antihillary are getting restless.

Jack

Jack

It was really noticeable today. The top of the show was warm, pleasant just going over "possibilities and tactics". At the end of the show, the long knives were out ... very weird.

Champ

One of the ways educators calculate the grade level of reading material

http://school.discoveryeducation.com/schrockguide/fry/fry.html

Jack

but champ.......what was it brought that to your attention?

"very weird"
"matthews"

And your point? ;-)

Jack

A thought about General Motors.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNdEu9s5qUU

"Drove my Chevy to the levey"

How patriotic can a Republican be if he lets Chevy die.

Jack

As a young reader, I used to read my grandmother's "Reader's Digests", as I figured I was a member of their target audience. As I grew more sophisticated, I realized that by "Reader", they meant "Christian". My first exposure to editorial bias.

Which begs the question, is evangelism a obligation of dentistry?

When the Levee Breaks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-AanPHMbC4

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/as-gm-goes-so-goes-the-nation.html#comment-173302

Jack,

Once upon a time many, many moons ago, I edited The Naval Ships' Technical Manuals. It was interesting to take engineering input with all of it's jargon and college level vocabulary and reduce it down to the level of ninth grade so that some seaman didn't get killed using the equipment.

"How in the space of one hour did we go from "might" to Absolute."

I was shaking my head as well, Jamie.

Mr Republican--you said
mr. crete,
Well, that was pretty offensive of you. And preposterous, to boot.

If Christianity was so much more gentle, how is it that Christian Europeans were still practicing mass human sacrifice in the 1940s across Poland, Hungary, and Germany ? Add Yugoslavia and Rwanda (with clergy and nuns taking part in the carnage) through the 1990s, and Central Africa today. A generation of children recently had their arms and legs lopped off for this kinder gentler god of yours. The Lord's Resistance Army. There has been no more murderous ideology in the history of this planet than the Apostate Paul's.

you can't be that naive not to know that today is a little gentler and kinder----you and i are talking about this without any danger!--from moses----not like the people that helped Aaron pool all of their gold melt it and create a false god,,,,man was moses and god pissed---he made all of the people melt the golden idol (i kinda liked it ) mix it with water and made them drink it, then he had the ones that did not offend god pick up their swords and kill as many as they could---this amounted to the same number that was killed in 9-11 in new york---3000,,,one might think that this would have assuaged gods jealous sulk,,but no he was not finished---in his parting shot he sent them a plague cos the people made a frigin calf---aron made,,,,the book of #'s tell how god made short work of slaying all the men and they burned all the midianite cities, but they did not kill the women and children,,,this restraint by his soldiers infuriated moses (hardly any know that moses was a war lord) and he gave orders that all the boy children should be killed, and all the women virgins,,in #'s 31:18 god says that all women that have not known man by lying with them,,keep alive for yourselves---wtf---no moses was not a great role model for us-----but it a little safer today----don't go back to calling me solarcrete,,,you seem to be a little confused ---mr crete will do fine,,,thanks mr. republican till next time ---lots more to come,,, and i have only read the bible once,,but just the old testament---can't bring myself to read any more bs than that ----you said that you read it several times-----once more please just so u can understand it,,,i will give u a start---Abraham was the founding father of all three great monotheistic religions,,his patriarchal status renders him only a little less likely than god to be taken as a role model----early in his life he sold his wife to the egyptians and saved his own life--he later became very rich----god was so mad that he sent a plague on pharaoh and his house---why not abraham???,,,and then they tried to do it again with the king of Gerar,,,,this time they told the king that she was his sister not his wife,,,ther is a lot more but,,u get my drift ...gotta be a little better now?

oh about paul---he was the one that made it more inclusive---he was always fighting with the ones that wanted to have christianity just for jews,,,now what they did with the new christianity is for a diff time.

Patsi,

I'm really enjoying the new 1600 Pennsylvania show that replaced Road to the White House. Seemingly sane people who don't scream or spit while discussing the ins and outs of political goings on. David Gregory is a jewel. I relaly hope they keep it since it is about as close as we are likely to get a round table. Now if there were a foreign affairs political show .... right, dream on.

thinking about chevys

409

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoqHPYIUtBM

So Jamie and Patsi - who were these people who were not enthused re Hillary?

Hey All
I don't want GM to go under,but then I'm biased. I was born and raised in Flint,Michigan,GM's birthplace and the birthplace of the UAW.I have seen my home town go from vibrant and jobs for all who want to work ,to watching the Buick and Fisher body plants become Ghost Towns and set empty and then bulldozed,SAD.Flint today is sad and depressing.I feel bad that there are not lunch bucket jobs available that pay a decent wage and offer medical insurance,not everyone wants college or is even college material.I receive a pension and Blue Cross,but I don't feel the taxpayer owes it to me!.I would be against any help if it weren't a loan with many conditions attached to it and yes I think it should cost me too,after all I took the chance working for them for 23 yrs.I think GM's bad business practices contributed to there problem's ,but also having to pay are insurance and labor costs vs the rest of the world puts the company in a bad way. Canada is medical expense free and China and Mexico have such low wages,I guess since we have let so many industries go to other countries maybe it won't matter!! I just keep asking myself can this whole USA do well for its people if we don't manufacture anything?Can we all just work service jobs and prosper? I hope so because I think that's where were heading...

"Seemingly sane people who don't scream or spit while discussing the ins and outs of political goings on. David Gregory is a jewel."

Yes -- I really like the way Gregory handles that show. And -- speaking of "spit" -- I heard Barney Frank make a funny remark the other day...he suggested that Bill O'Reilly aim to make his show a "No Spit Zone."

Bethy -- as far as I can tell, the whole SOS appointment and decision may be colored by the fact that the good old boys, including Kennedy and Dodd, have told Hillary she will have no say in the health care plan. And that they've also made it clear she will never be Speaker.

Unbelievable.

I am so sick of Chris Dodd that I could spit....much like Matthews and O'Reilly....

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/as-gm-goes-so-goes-the-nation.html#comment-173317

Patsi
Yes,unbelievable!

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/as-gm-goes-so-goes-the-nation.html#comment-173196

Chloe
Glad your doing A-Ok! Hope you enjoyed the Bond movie.Thanks for the E-address...

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/as-gm-goes-so-goes-the-nation.html#comment-173314

Bethy,

Jennifer something or other really went mean mouth on HIllary.

re. "1600 Pennsylvania Avenue" and "The Race To The White House" (i.e., David Gregory's shows):

Maybe these shows would be worthwhile in a half-hour format, with an interesting guest like tonight's Doris Kearns Goodwin and limited panel discussion.

But in filling an hour each night, the shows rely too much on overpaid pundits speculating on speculative rumors. After months and months of this during the campaign -- when about 95% of the speculations proved to be just so much hot air -- the need for more guessing about the implications of someone else's guesses is nil.

What is missing is attention to the ongoing illegal actions of the Bush administration. What we need are reporters who are willing to actually do some fact-finding and reporting, not a bunch of people just spinning opinions based on their personal inclinations and preferences.

I would rather have someone like Jonathan Turley, for instance, who can cite specific legal rulings, sections of the Constitution and so on. If more people became aware of how Mr. Bush is breaking the law on a daily basis, Congress would have to, finally, begin impeachment processes against this criminal administration.

Instead, we get blah-blah-blah about what might happen if so-and-so is the next cabinet member. And that does not help the country get back on track; it's just a bunch of spin.

Finally, some of the panelists, such as the over-rated Chuck Todd, are wearing out their welcome on David Gregory's shows. Chuck Todd may be gifted in looking at and interpreting statistics, but he fails as a general commentator (as evidenced too often, for instance, during the primary and convention broadcasts).

Bottom line: cut the speculation by at least half and bring in some true reporting, and "1600 Pennsylvania Avenue" would be an endurable show.

"What is missing is attention to the ongoing illegal actions of the Bush administration."

Benj-Blue: I fear we'll never see that happen. It seems to be completely shut down. And God only knows what shit they'll be up to between now and January.

Given the state of the economy, the beginning of a new Presidency, and everything going on with the war, my guess is that any garbage found will not see the light of day for a long, long time. The American public doesn't need more bad news. We can only hope Bush and his criminal cronies don't do anything too horrendous.

"garbage found will not see the light of day for a long, long time. "

And when that time comes, it will most likely be brushed aside, like Iran Contra and many other outrages.

Jamie, that seems to be the Bush Legacy: if you do enough bad things, Congress will not know which to address first (during your reign of terror) and will be left with enough messes to clean up that there will be no time to address the root of the problems later.

However, if President Obama does nothing to separate himself from the Bush years, he will seem to be complicit in their illegal acts, and America will never restore its character as a country where laws are honored.

Oops, Craig's on Countdown...gotta go...

Craig:

Congratulations on your sleuthing talents! You identified the leaker, and the world is safe again.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/as-gm-goes-so-goes-the-nation.html#comment-173322

benjaminblue,
You made some very good suggestions for creating a better show, imo. I especially liked your idea of cutting the speculation in half and bringing in some true reporting. I've given up on most of the so called news shows, but a show like you described I'd definitely watch. (You'd make a good producer)

Patsi, What you said about there being no attention given or reported on the ongoing illegal actions of the Bush administration, I find that odd too. I cannot for the life of me understand why they don't look for a story there.

I don't understand that, and I also don't understand why the Democrats have let the Bush administration get away with so much either. Americans may not want more bad news, but I'm sure they'd like a few answers and explanations. Let's keep hoping for that transparency in the future that we keep hearing about.

Hey Tony, good to see you.
nite

Thinking about legacies reminds me of how Republicans have tried to deify Reagan, naming all kinds of things in his honor. There are certainly more deserving modern age Republicans.

There is an effort in my home state of Kansas to name the Wichita airport after Dwight Eisenhower. One of the paper's black columnists is helping back it, and mentioned this part of Eisenhower's career:

As president, Eisenhower appointed Earl Warren and four others to the U.S. Supreme Court. Those appointments paved the way for the 1954 landmark decision Brown v. Board of Education, which struck down segregation in public schools.

As desegregation of schools began, he sent troops into Little Rock to ensure compliance with the orders of a federal court.

“There must be no second-class citizens in this country,” he wrote.

Eisenhower also appointed E. Frederick Morrow, the first black White House staffer, desegregated the District of Columbia and wrote the 1957 Civil Rights Act, the first such piece of legislation passed since Reconstruction.

I missed Craig -- who was the leaker?

Doris Kearns Goodwin!

Hi all

Noticed a lot of us like Red Green. I found a link to an amazing show produced by Steve Smith (aka Red Green) called History Bites.

http://www.historybites.com/

Explain, Benjblue!!!! Please tell more....

Patsi: Doris Kearns Goodwin is spreading stories about President-elect Obama's interest in including opponents in his Cabinet because she wrote a book about Abraham Lincoln doing the same thing -- and her book has climbed back up to the top of the best-sellers list now that it seems President-elect Obama is following President Lincoln's strategy. So, she's the one spreading rumors to generate interest in her book, to sell books and to pocket more money!

now benjaminblue, i'm sure you know we were kidding about doris as the leaker -- just wanna clear that up

OK -- I was going to make a joke about her trying to hawk Team of Rivals so I guess it wouldn't have really been a joke! (I didn't know it was back on top -- but it sure has had the press lately....)

champ,

Continuing a conversation of last night, I don't know what you thought you read, but what I wrote had nothing to do with what was in your reply, seen below :

"Some of those "laws of moses" command genocide. That's pretty murderous. Islam, from what I understand, calls for the execution of willing infidels. Not so nice, either. Jesus was a pacifist. Say what you will about the errant ways of 'His" followers, but he himself (if you believe he even existed) advocated love and forgiveness. He was somewhat of an egoist, I concede that."

1. I didn't write a thing about Jesus - only about what you call 'the errant ways of his followers.'
2. Without context texts are open to misinterpretation. a. Israelites were commanded to kill the 'anakim' or 'giants' when they entered Canaan. We have no idea what the anakim were. They could have been giraffes or horsemen. Consider the misconception Amerindians had of horsemen, when they first encountered mounted Spaniards. b. After Abraham's renunciation of child sacrifice, his descendents abhored it, unlike nearly everyone else on the planet for the next 1,500 years. c. Canaan had a cult of Moloch, to whom children were burned alive. Presumably, Canaanites who could afford it substituted the children of slaves for their own, or tikes stolen from neighbors or former neighbors who were now returning . The Moloch cult and the thought of incinerating children filled Israelites with rage. Genesis probably memorializes rage over something pretty foul.
3. a. If Jesus were a pacifist, he would not have said that he brought "a sword", and would not have armed his 2 body guards with swords. b. He would not have empoyed the sicarii (knife bearering zealots) known as the Boanerges ('Sons of Thunder), one of whom was James (the Greater) the son of Zebedee. c. He would not have said "Render unto Caesar those things that are Caesar's" for every Jew understood that the basis of Caesar's power (his things) was the murderous Roman short sword.

John Mellencamp - "Our Country" Live

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlxQGZDmtyw

Yes, I know you were kidding. But it was a fun and funny moment and kind of expanded upon my earlier remark this evening that many pundits pronounce, on a daily basis, that they have the answers -- while they're just giving third-hand opinions on second-hand guesses. Many hours were wasted during the campaign -- and many unnecessary arguments flared up between the various factions -- all on the basis of the "absolute truths" put forward by the various pundits.

But that's what the damn shows are about! If you don't want to watch the pundits, read the newspaper. I myself have my favorite pundits, along with the ones I love to hate. Thirty min. shows would only mean that we would get twice as many of the same shows, doing the same thing, 'cos that's what the news shows do.

Best phrase today via NewsHour -

Lame W. Duck

See the USA in Your Chevrolet - Dinah Shore 1952

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGZvQoPxhNs

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/as-gm-goes-so-goes-the-nation.html#comment-173341

Yep

Pablum for the masses

Then some of us hunger for steak.

Thus the baby cries.

Jack

Best news today -

“They’re sending this permit — and effectively sending every other permit — back to square one,” he said, adding, “It’s minimum a one to two year delay for every proposed coal-fired power plant in the United States.”
................ “And it’s a heads-up to the coal industry that stationary-source regulation of CO2 is coming.”

http://greeninc.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/11/14/epa-decision-signals-trouble-for-coal/

bruce springsteen - pink cadillac
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uq8qPRnwmyw

Isn't there anyway that the government could send in a "clean-up team" into these mega corps. that need a bail out and fire the incompoops and hire or promote new ceo's?

"Where do you think that money is going to go? It's going to go to wind. It's going to go to solar. It's going to go to something that's going to get built," Bookbinder said. "This is incredibly good for green energy."

http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/11/epa-ruling.html

Jack -- I'd damn near kill for one of those 1952 Chevy convertibles.

pink cadillac

Good one Jack.

Addictive ain't it ?

Just an aside.. Jesus said "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's" which meant taxes (you have to go back in the chapter a bit, but it was part of a long conversation where scribes and pharisees were trying to trip up Jesus and make a fool out of him. The Pharisees were part of the 'go along' group, making deals with the Romans (they didn't want to rock the boat). And Jesus pissed them all off cos he kept changing the rules. They tried to trap him by asking if it was right for Jews to pay taxes to a Roman emporer. He picked up a coin and asked who's image was on it. They answered "Caesar's". Jesus point was if the Pharisees were using Roman coins then they accepted their rule and the gov't had every right to tax them. (This was just before Jesus went into the temple and threw them all out. He was a very complex man!)

This Prop 8 discussion is heating up...Bishop Harry Jackson Jr is on Larry King claiming that the "gay culture" is racist.

God 'a mighty.

RE :
Pundit TV -

Bruce Springsteen - 57 Channels

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEl2HiSw0ho

What is that called when someone comes into a company and basically fires all the 'unnecessary' workers? There's a specific term.

Take your pick, Rosie: "efficiency expert" or "asshole."

realignment ,,,or there is a new sherrif in town

ROFL, Solar. I like asshole better.

57 Channels -

Two of those channels are running The Wizard of Oz.

It'd be cool if we all had flowers growing out of the toes of our shoes, like the Munchkins . What a great look.

If you really want too know what Bush\Cheney has done in the name of the American People then watch these excerpts from an a posting called "A Ticket to The Hague for Dick Cheney?".

These video excerpts are from "Torturing Democracy" and "Taxi To The Dark Side".

Some remarks by Gene Burns.

"I now believe that some international human rights organization ought to open an investigation of the Bush Administration, I think focused on Vice President Dick Cheney, and attempt to bring charges against Cheney in the international court of justice at The Hague, for war crimes. Based on the manner in which we have treated prisoners at Guantánamo Bay, and the manner in which we have engaged in illegal rendition–that is, surreptitiously kidnapping prisoners and flying them to foreign countries where they could be tortured by foreign agents who do not follow the same civilized standards to which we subscribe."

"And then I saw Torturing Democracy."

"And I believe that Dick Cheney is responsible. I believe that he was the agent of the United States government charged with developing the methodology used at Guantánamo Bay, supervising it for the administration, and indulging in practices which are in fact violations of human rights."

The administration did its best to spike both films. Taxi was to be aired on the Discovery Channel, but with Discovery Communications then in the process of going public and facing sensitive SEC clearances, executives apparently decided not to risk provoking the anger of the White House. As I reported elsewhere, PBS also found that it had no network space for Torturing Democracy until January 20, 2009—the day the Bush Administration decamps from Washington.

"Why was the administration so concerned about these two films? The conversion of Gene Burns supplies the answer. No one who sits through these films, I believe, will be able afterwards to accept the official version of events. George Bush has good reason to be afraid of too many Americans watching these documentaries."

Since Bush\Cheney fear no accountability from either political party here at home since many members of both parties are complicit in both War Crimes and the cover up of War Crimes we can only pray that the International Community will bring them to trial.

Take some time and watch these excerpts and see What Was Done In Your Name.

http://suzieqq.wordpress.com/2008/11/14/a-ticket-to-the-hague-for-dick-cheney/#more-13343

Thanks! :)

Constitutional crisis' looming over Obama's birth location

"The California secretary of state should refuse to allow the state's 55 Electoral College votes to be cast in the 2008 presidential election until President-elect Barack Obama verifies his eligibility to hold the office, alleges a California court petition filed on behalf of former presidential candidate Alan Keyes and others.

This proof could include items such as his original birth certificate, showing the name of the hospital and the name and the signature of the doctor, all of his passports with immigration stamps, and verification from the governments where the candidate has resided, verifying that he did not, and does not, hold citizenship of these countries, and any other documents that certify an individual’s citizenship and/or qualification for office.

Among the states where cases are being tracked are Ohio, Connecticut, Washington, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Georgia and Hawaii, and there were reports of other cases being developed in Utah, Wyoming, Florida, New York, North Carolina, Texas, California and Virginia."

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=80931

"The administration did its best to spike both films. "

Anon-Para -- This crap has been going on for decades. Right after I had my first job in journalism, I had a letter from one of my best high school friends, a female nurse stationed in Vietnam. She had been violently raped and nothing was done about it. She sent me a tape with her story, and back ups from some other women in the unit. The tape arrived completely blank.

OMG! Gordo! Obama's birth certificate is being tracked through all these states?

" Ohio, Connecticut, Washington, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Georgia and Hawaii, and there were reports of other cases being developed in Utah, Wyoming, Florida, New York, North Carolina, Texas, California and Virginia."

That's one fast moving little certificate....

no heavy religion for tonight ---tomorrow gonna have a cpl of buds and---here u go

________________
Woman goes to Italy to attend a 2-week, company training session.
Her husband drives her to the airport and wishes her to have a good trip.
The wife answers : "Thank you honey, what would you like me to bring for you?"
he husband laughs and says: "An Italian girl !!!"
The woman kept quiet and left.
Two weeks later he picks her up in the airport and asks: "So, honey, how was the trip?"
"Very good, thank you." "And, what happened to my present?"
"Which present?" She asked.
"The one I asked for - an Italian girl!!"
"Oh, that" she said
"Well, I did what I could, now we have to wait for few months to see if it is a girl !!!"

Stop it Solar! Where do you get all those jokes!!??

:) you remind me of my dad, sometimes, Solar.

One thing more.

Bill Ayers can kiss my butt. There are a lot of people out there who are not old enough to remember just what damage those assholes did the legitimate anti-war movement in the '60s and early 70s. I believe Ayers and his violent crowd did nothing but damage to the cause. Despised him then, despise him now. And that has nothing to do with Obama and all that BS.

ok i will talk about something boring computors---here

She says "My boss is so crazy. Everytime he comes into the office, I must do the LAPTOP position, and then the DESKTOP position, followed by the SPREADSHEET format.
I must LOAD UP his SOFT DISK into a HARD DISK, so that he can INSERT in my C DRIVE and then the A DRIVE. Then he'll ask me to EJECT his SOFTWARE outside my C DRIVE so that he is VIRUS FREE. Then he changes his mind and decides to ENTER, ENTER, ENTER the whole day till he is in MICROSOFT stage.
Once I tried to ESC (escape) but he caught me and SHIFTed me to his HOME where he started pressing BACKSPACE and then SCROLLOCK. He never PAUSE. Many times he works without CAPSLOCK (cap) and sometimes as an ALTernative he CRASHES @ my SYSTEM until he looses his CTRL (control) and again he LOGS IN... This process may continue until I SHUT DOWN his MAIN SYSTEM.

Jack im out of teqillya to go with my bud what do u have?

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/as-gm-goes-so-goes-the-nation.html#comment-173356

Rosie

I want to say hachetman but that isn't it, I don't think.

It will come to me as I work tommorrow.

Jack

Solar

The wife is on a diet and she put me on the wagon.

Diet coke for me tonight.

Jack

Rosie---i just saw that---i don't want to remind u of your father ---maybe the guy u were drunk with in that car :-)))))

Patsi @ 10:12 -

Agreed ...

"And if you keep carrying pictures of Chairman Mao
You ain't gonna make it with anyone anyhow"

Patsi

A house over on a dead end street in Independence had a great Halloween decoration in the front yard. It was one of those old early 50's Chevys that was all rusted with the windshield broken out. They had a skeleton hanging out the broken windshield across the hood. It was cool.

Jack

Patsi

Ayers gave the antiwar movement a bad name and this morning on GMA he gave college professors a bad name

It was painful to listen to his ramblings this mornin.

Jack

O_o Problem is. I can't remember 'cos I was DRUNK!

With the counting still in progress, new totals posted Nov. 14 showed Begich, mayor of Anchorage, with a 1,022-vote lead over Stevens: 138,959 votes to 137,937 votes, or 47.37 percent to 47.02 percent.

The Alaskan vote torture, one ballot at a time dripping on Stevens forehead.

hell jack ---on fridaynight or sat some of us contractors took it easy and got together had a few , talked about the work, shared info, and just kicked back a little,,,some times i miss that but not much,,still talk over coffee and sometimes

George Jones - The One I Loved Back Then (The Corvette Song)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s17jq3k7py8

Solar

That reminds me of a friend of mine who has framed or done some type of construction all his life. I worked for him for 4 or 5 years framing. When he goes on vacation he still gets up at 4 in the morning, He finds a place to get some coffee and starts looking for a construction site where someone is framing a house. He then stops introduces himself and talks contruction.

Jack

Rosie,

Cleans house...dead wood ...??

Rosie -
I went looking for the term you inquired about .

Donald Rumsfeld was one. So I'm goin' with asshole too.

it gets in the blood---sometimes some new young guy comes along and get all the advise he can handle from a bunch of old timers----what u don't know how to square that foundation,,,not you don't start framing like that,,,,if you want to last in this here biz--you gotta do it like this,,,and on and on just as if it we were talking about it for the first time---HA

tylenol,
So, you are saying that Jesus is pro-taxes. Okay, please explain that to republicans.

I think the saying had a different meaning, but that the fellow who wrote the book 50 years later, or the editor who amended it 150 years later, were writing for a different audience who would have had a different understanding and different sympathies. It was in the interests of Christians to get on, and stay on, the good side of the Romans, who had no qualms about murdering entire cities and nations, as Veiians and Carthaginians would attest, had any of them survived.

Also, it is the Pharisees who were anti-Roman; Caiaphas was Sadducee. Sadducees tended to be wealthy and educated in Greco-Roman culture. They were Roman citizens whose interests were entirely tied up with the Roman tyranny. To stay wealthy, Sadducees got along to get along. These are the guys who had an interest in trapping Jesus, not the Pharisees. To Jesus, it was these folks, not the Pharisees, who are phony Jews. The Sadducees are also the ones that Jesus cursed in Matthew.

Btw, under Roman rule, the new Sanhedrin was composed of Sadducee/Romans, appointed to act as advisors to proconsuls like Pilate. This new Sanhedrin was never given the power to try capital cases, let alone put prisoners like Jesus to death.

Jack,
Is repair/remodel a choice as opposed to framing or something else?
My SIL is doing RR now because of the slow down. He hates it! Normally he runs a framing crew putting up large spec homes, but that's gone to hell.

Patsi wins. It was effeciency expert aka 'asshole'.

2. I don't know what your problem is, but I'll bet it's hard to pronounce.

25. This isn't an office. It's Hell with fluorescent lighting.

37. How do I set a laser printer to stun?

http://www.boardofwisdom.com/default.asp?topic=1005&listname=Business

Patsi wrote :
"There are a lot of people out there who are not old enough to remember just what damage those assholes did the legitimate anti-war movement in the '60s and early 70s."

My sentiments exactly. In my book he's a friend of westmoreland, another Moloch worshipper who incinerated children.

Rez
For me it has become a choice. But I did enjoy framing but a fiftyfive yr old hillbilly can't keep up with a 20 something Mexican, No matter how much he lies to himself. After a while the body wears out and all the tricks you've learned over the years can't make up for it.

There are parts of remodeling I enjoy parts I don't. I'll contract out the sheetrock and concrete work where ever possible. They can do it faster and better than I can.

Jack

Rosie

Are you thinking of Redundancy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Layoff

Chainsaw Consultant - An outside expert brought in to reduce the employee head count, leaving the top brass with clean hands.

Patsi - I agree completely re Eisenhower's worth, and that he's been over-looked.

I also agree re the damage done by violent anti-war protesters. I've long thought they ended up prolonging the war - they were so destructive themselves that they drove people away.

I suspect Obama was just finding out about him and framing his own ideas along the way. Ayers is a smug self-satisfied jerk.

Blamestorming - A group discussion of why a deadline was missed or a project failed and who was responsible.

http://www.innocentenglish.com/funny-dumb-quotes-questions-sayings/top-50-business-and-office-slang-terms-and-expressions-for-2007.html

Anon,

Thanks for helping us improve our vocabularies.

I just learned that dragons are flammivomous.

Rosie - I know that's what the shows are about, and why I don't like or watch them. That's most of what's on and some of us think a new format is needed.

My biggest problem is the full hour allotted to the two on msnbc to talk endlessly about themselves. Yes, they get others on to talk about themselves but just a few and not for long. That's why I suggested half-hour shows

CNN gets some pretty big panels going, with up to ten people who can all hold their own. I've heard even Bill Bennett (gag...groan...barf) make some cogent comments.

I'm not interested in KO or Tweety exercising their right to speak freely so I turn them off. msnbc doesn't care about anything but making money. They don't contribute to the general collection of knowledge and information in my opinion.

BTW, I also have my favorite pundits and those I don't like, and find my opinions about them changing quite often. The last one I really liked was KO, but I threw him under the bus and rode over him several times.
I bet he leaves msnbc eventually after a big fight with them. as he has done every other place he worked.

I'm satisfied - I can get my news that way I have been. I just wish it were easier.

I loved Ike. Still do. However, he made a half dozen terrible decisions. In descending order of importance :
1. He prevented a UN-conducted free election in Viet Nam, and appointed a puppet to govern the south.
2. He overthrew the elected Arbenz government of Guatemala.
3. He stopped the Brits, French, and Israelis from opening the Suez Canal to shipping from all nations.
4. He picked NH bribe-taker sherman adams to run his office.
5. He failed to denounce joe mccarthy when that demogogue attacked the State Department, and later, the US Army.
6. By executive order he increased the allowable amount of rat poop in flour used for commercial bread. My day quit eating caraway rye until JFK took over.

That is supposed to read, "My dad quit eating caraway rye until JFK took over."

Dam typos. grrr.

Jack,

That's cool, he's been at it for 25 + years.. . starting as a laborer. Hell he's 50 himself.. too old for my 34 year old :-)
He's been running his own show for over 10 years and has a good rep with the several local builders. OK is hell on undocs. but he has some guys that have been with him for a while. He gives some of my nephews a chance for a few bucks if they can get up and get there.

I walked with him on one of his gigs. Damn this thing was 3 stories and 3.5/4 K sq feet. I can see why it's a let down for him. but I give him his due cause he stays busy even if it's not his cup of tea.
Good thing my daughter has a good gig going for the ins. and second income. Plus.. that ole casino per capita check helps like hell :-)

Lol xrep. A rationalization for everything you support, and condemnation for everything you don't. Giraffes, huh?

champ,

Archeologists have found giraffe bones in Israel.

Regarding the rest of your critique, who are you to make such a remark about anyone ?

I'm me, and I'm familiar enough with your arguments to understand their conventions. If you're beyond reproach, I apologize; I must have missed the memo. One thing is for sure, we must eradicate all those goddamn giraffes- they're a nuisance.

My practice seems to be universally accepted in this region of the universe. We normally explain what we support, and condemn that which we disapprove.

Is it different where you come from ?

Do you condemn what you support and argue for things you don't ?

Are you from a very distant galaxy ?

I don't understand how you could have come to think me anti-giraffe. Perhaps if you read the text, you might come to a different conclusion. Or, perhaps if you cleaned your spectacles or screen.

If I thought you debated with integrity, I might be more motivated to compose articulate and substantiated responses to your assertions, but in recognition that you don't, I choose not to waste my time with such futility. I don't have an agenda that necessitates rationalization, obfuscation, omission, postulation and whatever manipulative argumentative techniques you employ, like you do. You work in bullshit like Michealangelo worked in oils. Hats off to you.

To this old debate coach, your fallacies sound very much like a surrender. The redundancies indicate that you are rattled.

Michaelangelo did not work in oils. I guess that makes you the bullshitter.

one man's giraffe is another man's socrates........

no wait......one man's giraffe is another's plato.....I always get that one backwards.......

Yes, Sturgeone.

The Athenians sacrificed Socrates, although they allowed him to perform the act.

or was it one man's stutz bearcat is another man's alfa romeo......naw, that aint right.......but goddammit, one man's alfalfa is another man's EverClear.........I know that for a fact.......or was it wheat........oh well, I hope yall get this religion thing worked out, cause it wont be long before religion gets a bad name around here.......and then old Geronimo is going to be spinning in his shallow grave....................like Oceola.......

It's like that one wallis simpson king's abdication.....he NEVER thought for a minute that they'd let him resign.......boy was he wrong......just like Charles 1 never thought they'd actually off him and Eliz's sister till the end thought they'd save her, not let her get the chair.........oh well........that's sho-biz.......like Longshanks tricking the welsh and de Montfort in such a way that he got to write the history........oh, the humanity..................

Sturgeone,

Craig Ferguson was jabbering about Alfalfa tonight. He said he never saw an Our Gang comedy.

I thought Geronimo (not his real name) was an Apache shaman. Is taht why he'd be spinning ?

well.....I played the old gee-tar at the ritual cracking of the crab tonight and came from there with a sparkling love for my fellow man.......that will of course disappear by morning's light and things will be back to normalcy.....too bad.......I had gifts for all of you but now I'm taking them all to the goodwill..............

I dont remember Geronimo's real name.....I was under the impression that they had a real name which could not be said.......or something like that.......

do not under any circumstances cut off Alfalfa's "personality"......not good

you guys need to type faster......I cannot sustain this level of badinage much longer........

Plato was a witness at Socrates's "execution" and wrote about it eloquently.

according to plato......

It has always been difficult for me to see deMontfort, the martyr for representative government at Evesham, and deMontfort the mass murderer of Cathars, as the same deMontfort. He fed the dogs - a very abuGhraib sort of maryrdom, don't you think ?

As to Charles I, after his execution of MPs without trial, Parliamentarians must have felt that if they didn't do him in together, he would do them in seperately. Especially when he refused to cop a plea, and admit the supremacy of the Parliament. Hadn't he ever read Marlowe's Edward II, or Shakespeare's Richard II or Richard III ? Watta dope.

"If I [Socrates] am to live longer, perhaps I must live out my old age, seeing and hearing less, understanding worse, coming to learn with more difficulty and to be more forgetful, and growing worse than those to whom I was once superior. Indeed, life whould be unliveable, even if I did not notice the change. And if I see the change, how could life not be even more wretched and unpleasant?"

---Xenophon

Chuck 1 was defiinitely a dope......he coulda cut a deal most of the steps along the way.......but you know, that aint the king's way.......

Sturge - you're doin' ok as it is. by the way, I like your clown, and I'm not fond of them ususally.

I don't think Plato had any reason to lie about it. But, motive is such a slippery critter.

I think that you're, Sturgeone. The shaman's real name is supposed to be secret so the evil spirits can't use the powerful name-knowkedge against him. Very Aristotelian, thinking that if you name something that you gain power over it. Probably the basis of political and other name-calling, right champ ?

My favorite is Chas II.

I'll be back momenscarily......I must needs make some bake 'em and arrigs.......

man cannot live by bread alone......he must have peanut butter.
---Brother Dave Gardiner

The power allegedly gained by secret name-knowledge might also lie at the bottom of GORDO's business. Does anyone know, by any chance, is GORDO a shaman ? Or an Aristotelian ?

Chas II had very nice wigs, a great looking girlfriend, and lovely ships. In the immortal words of Charlie the 2's Admiralty guy, Samuel Pepys, "and so to bed."

G'night bethyboo. Goodnight Sturgeone. Goodnight all you lurkers at the threshhold.

Yes, indeed, Chas II knew how to enjoy what he could, and didn't get bogged down. He had a sense of loyalty, too, but I think he gave his people some real service. What a weasel his brother was!

Sturge - I think you're gonna be on your own if you do come back.

"Americans may not want more bad news, but I'm sure they'd like a few answers and explanations."

chloe, and the good american that i am would like to know if the new 007 movie is worth paying at the box office, renting as a cd or just waiting for it to show up free on tcm.

so glad you're back.... you add a great deal to the warmth and soul in this otherwise cold,sterile lab.

"When a CIA woman serving abroad has an affair or falls in love with a local, their clearances are routinely revoked, forcing them to resign, a group of female former employees charge.

When men do the same, they get a slap on the wrist, they say."

patsi, i'm interested in your take (from the gender discrim'n pov) on the cq politics article last night re sex and the cia.

I love this headline:

Obama weighs Clinton, Richardson as sec. of state.

At the risk of offending somebody or maybe everybody, my question is "Who weighs more?" and what does weight have to do with being sec. of state?

"At the risk of offending somebody or maybe everybody, my question is "Who weighs more?""

Bow, It depends on what you're weighing.

If you're weighing body mass, it's Richardson.
If you're weighing character, intelligence and suitability for the job, Hillary wins. :)

new thread, y'all