Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Good morning all! Very funny Craig, look who's rattling the cage now!

Schwarzenegger says Prop 8 should be overturned...

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-protest10-2008nov10,0,4939340.story

"Louisiana's Bobby Jindal offer a path out of the political wilderness."

What about Jindah's participating in an exorcism in college...won't they Sarah Palin-him?

Craig - By why a cigar in the Picture ?

Response - How do the Republicans respond to the failed leadership that allowed poor fiscal policy?

Response - Wait and see which Barack really shows up... No Rush - Take your time.

The OFFICE OF PRES ELECT - has so many promises to filter that Republicans will be well suited to just sit back.

Good morning Patsi! Aren't Louisianians allowed a bit of the macabre?

Barack Promises defacto - Not so much of what he said - but by not saying much more then an over used Madison Ave pitch - Many People are looking for much.

Constitution, schmonstitution. It's just a goddamn piece of paper.

See, Gordo? The Dems will expose Obama's past after his term expires so that Schwartzenegger can cite it as precedent for his run.

"Aren't Louisianians allowed a bit of the macabre?"

Ha! I hadn't thought about that! And I've even been to the VooDoo Museum in the Quarter!

champ, a follow up from earlier post to you about certain studies:
"an excess of adult males begets aggression toward adult females, whose survival and fecundity drop, along with their emigration rate."
http://www.cees.no/content/view/357/69/

If questioned about the exorcism, Jindal could just pull a George Bush, call it a college prank and say: Laissez les Bon Temps Roulez!

[a repost re sturge's 9:02 to corey's 8:47 pm... i didn't see the new thread]

corey, pay no attention to sturge. elks bugle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VHxRoEE5bE

however, it's getting harder and harder these days to find a horn big enough.

Rest easy, Pat; I'm no lizard, though I can't speak for the rest of the male population.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/09/senate.lieberman/

Here's Harry!! "Lieberman can still help Dem's,Reid says"

"Socially moderate governors...offer a path out of the political wilderness."

Ah, Craig, but the righteous path is very, very narrow on social issues according to the right-wingers who have high-jacked the GOP. Do you really think they are going to let that happen?

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/55522.html

"Can a $100 billion stimulus save a $14 Trillion economy?"

One undisputable fact -

Bush has been the Number one factor in a developing a diverse Cultural government.
Both by his actions in his running of the Government and selections.

And his lack of action to allow failed fiscal policy which created the number one election issue

http://www.motherjones.com/mojoblog/archives/2008/11/10742_transition_rumi.html

Here's some interesting bits on possible security appointment's in an Obama Administration....

For the millionth time, religious interests haven't hi-jacked the GOP, corporate-controlled politicians who exploit the concerns of the religious interests have hi-jacked the GOP.

odd thing about obama's press conference
15 men''one women on stage with him
guess they needed someone to serve the
coffee and doughnuts

Tom,

Since Jason posted a picture of himself, I decided I should as well. I remember you having requested I do so. Here:

http://www.motherjones.com/photos/2007/11/tanaka.html

Nuclear power plants smaller than a garden shed and able to power 20,000 homes will be on sale within five years, say scientists at Los Alamos, the US government laboratory which developed the first atomic bomb.

The miniature reactors will be factory-sealed, contain no weapons-grade material, have no moving parts and will be nearly impossible to steal because they will be encased in concrete and buried underground.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/nov/09/miniature-nuclear-reactors-los-alamos

And now the Ironic element – Actions do not speak louder - Words just Words are much louder then action

2 Points:

Bush had the most diverse White House and created the opportunity that follows.

And in individual practice – Environmental reality – Bush by action has been much more responsible then his contemporary ie AlGore – Can I sell you more offsets Mr Gore?

Tony -- Interesting article in Mother Jones -- I'd like to see Witt take over at DHS. He ran FEMA effectivily.

Champ -- nice picture....ROFL....

mqw -- I think Obama will be very careful to make his top appointments diverse. He's too smart to do anything else. Or I hope so....

W's admin: Diverse? Yes. Competent? Not so much.
A bunch of folks who, despite gender and ethnicity, followed orders.

"Bush had the most diverse White House"

Bush did have a diverse crowd, Ping, and that's why I think Obama will. He would HATE to see headlines reading that Bush offered more diversity than did he.

For those interested- "Why Has Hero John McCain Not Risen To Sarah Palin's Defense"
http://theamericansentinel.com/2008/11/08/why-has-hero-john-mccain-not-risen-to-sarah-palins-defense/

I know his press secretary did, but just the same I'm glad someone poised the question.

Good article, Sea -- and I LOVE this threat:

"For sure, we need to know ALL the names of McCain’s staff so that we can ensure that they do not get near the next candidate."

Palin's answer about why they lost was pretty good. She said that Americans just asked themselves how the country went broke and lost a war under Republicans. You can't get more blunt than that.

I am a Democrat and I admire and respect Jindal. He is a Republican leader that can go toe-to-toe with a Barack or Democratic leader. So he believes in exorcism, so does the Catholic church and priests who excell in exorcising demons.

Sea - Thanks - nice link...
Now we know what happened for Barack when the attacks started. This might be the best thing for Sarah - and her response so far has been outstanding - most people will like what they see as they grow to know her.

Of course given those exceptions here that will fall for the folly or stir it up

Common misconception regarding Jindal: He used to do a lot of EXERCISING in college. Gotta stay in shape.

If people on this board or any other want to find Republican demons, they have a big bunch from which to choose. And I'd suggest Grover Norquist and his ilk who have been pushing the "starve the beast" theory. They are explicit about breaking the financial back of the government being the way to get rid of "entitlement" programs. If we can get over Sarah Palin's red shoes and start taking that crowd apart we might actually do something important.

"If George Bush wins , I'm moving to Canada."

Remember that nugget of wisdom ? I've been wondering where the GORDOs can migrate. Now we have an answer - Poland ;

" "The black messiah of the new left has crushed the Republican candidate John McCain, and America will soon pay a high price for this quirk of democracy," he added.

"Obama is an approaching catastrophe. This marks the end of white man's civilisation," he said in an address." ..............
Artur Gorski of the opposition Law and Justice (PiS) party told parliament last week.

"Gorski later apologised, saying his comments were strictly political, not racist."
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/news/2008/11/polish_govt_says_anti-obama_la.php

"So he believes in exorcism, so does the Catholic church and priests who excel in exorcising demons. "

Absolutely true. But it will be brought up, just as that witchcraft protection prayer was. There's a lot of bizarre ritual in any religion, and the Vatican owns a lot of it. (Nothing personal to the Catholic crowd....)

Poland is a good place for Gordo....historically, you couldn't find many more conspiracies and palace intrigue.

Circuit City files for bankruptcy -

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE4A936V20081110

So lets wait and see what the Republicans do... And they should go it slow....

Now for Pres Elect Obama--- I know two of the most important influences and advisors that he should pay attention - And that would be his daughters.

His eyes will open now that he leaves the Chicago Compound - He should want to protect his Parental rights - and maybe each of these causes he will think as a Father and not as a captive to a liberal community.

I say give the Jindal/exorcism theme a rest. Don't see how you can bring that up every time you hear his name and not think "channelling Eleanor Roosevelt/seance" whenever you hear Hillary's or "cigar in inappropriate place" when commenting about Bill.

Point being: there is a lot more to Jindal than one event in college, much as Hillary was unfairly maligned on many occasions.

Fairness demands that people (which politicians are) be considered in full, and not just for one odd episode.

Now if there is a pattern (a la Palin) that is quite different.

But I have never seen anyone here attack Jindal for his political views -- they just throw "exorcism" into their comment.

Predictable as GORDO and his birth certificate obsessiveness.

" protect his Parental rights - and maybe each of these causes he will think as a Father and not as a captive to a liberal community."

Be specific, use examples.

"Now if there is a pattern (a la Palin) that is quite different. "

Be specific, use examples.

The German newspaper Bild published never-before-seen architectural plans of the Auschwitz extermination camp on Saturday that reveal, in their unequivocally marked sections, that everyone involved in the operation of Auschwitz knew full well that it was intended for the systematic extermination of human beings, the paper said.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1225910066286&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

"But I have never seen anyone here attack Jindal for his political views -- they just throw "exorcism" into their comment."

If you had actually read and comprehended what I said, you'd know I was saying that it would be USED against him.

Sea, from the last thread:
"sociopath [(soh-see-uh-path, soh-shee-uh-path)]
Someone whose social behavior is extremely abnormal. Sociopaths are interested only in their personal needs and desires, without concern for the effects of their behavior on others. (Compare psychopath.)" Posted by: oldseahag | November 10, 2008 1:06 AM

May I add they have no conscience Sea. Although it is intrinsic to your definition, I think it's important to point it out.

If you were referring to what I think you were referring to, I've thought that for many, many months now.

Now I need to catch up with today's thread.

The Fed in a move to protect the very very few... Now gives very young girls protection on their medical records. So if you are trying to protect your daugther, act as a responable parent and want to have her tested for STD's and know the results- you are in the blind. You are automatically a BAD PARENT and have no rights.

This is simply wrong - and yes - the few need to be protected but it just hides a problem and damages the whole

Also study the impact of the FED with this policy and the impact of Empowerment to these young children. It is the wrong message. Only correlative data at this point but that it may be a contributer to the unhealthy rates.....

A thought on Lieberman

If the Republicans are true to form they will be obstructionist in the Senate. So which Republicans can you peel off to get Obama's agenda passed without Liberman in the mix?

There aren't very many moderate Republicans left.

Jack

Anon- Don't read every post but I haven't seen Gordo say he wants to leave the country. His concerns, as much as you disagree with them, remain concerns for his country that I believe he genuinely loves. I haven't seen him say anything unpatriotic, just questioning the chosen one which is not yet considered unpatriotic.

Patsi- agreed!

mornin' all.

Craig, good post - lord knows SOMEONE better show them the path out of the wilderness unless they want to live off the land for a while.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/arnold-to-the-rescue.html#comment-171690

Ping, words, just words. You leave out one TEENY WEENY little part of your assertion - what has Bush done aside from trying to promote more oil and coal development and use, refuse to enter into international environmental cooperation agreements and roll back pollution standards? (Oh, and news flash - Gore is not a politician in the sense that he hasn't run for anything since 2000. Bush is still in the WH screwing up the country from top to bottom. Good riddance). And btw, Bush followed Clinton's lead on federal appointments. After 12 years of Reagan (Shining City on the Hill) and Bush 41's records of less than 25% "diverse" judicial appointments(106/545), Clinton placed over half "diverse" judicial appointments (194/366). And for his cabinet, Clinton nominated three black men, a black woman and two Hispanic men to join nine white Cabinet nominees -- three of them women. And not everyone agrees with you about Bush's diversity credentials.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200412020010

i think lieberman needs "time out".......surely there are at least enough republicans of moderation to help the dems get over the sixty mark......they, too, might wish to be re-elected......tell lieberman to become a republican and who the hell cares.....he wont be there past HIS next election time, I be sure........

"Sociopath" is probably a consensus......9/11 had some nice posts on that subject a while back.....

Ooops ! Chloe- agreed.

Is your shopping cart in?
And can you repost the link.

Jack, Did you get my email?

"Now if there is a pattern (a la Palin) that is quite different. "

Nothing is more complex than the world's extraction and use energy resources. Plain's repeated chant of "Drill Baby Drill", and "Mine Baby Mine", shows a complete lack of understanding of the issue . It's a throw back to Huey Long's brand of politics.

"Every man a king, but no one wears a crown."

“One of these days the people of Louisiana are going to get good government - and they aren't going to like it.”

"...9/11 had some nice posts on that subject a while back....."

Yes he did Sturge. Miss having him around.

"it may be a contributer to the unhealthy rates..... "

I hate to say this...but I think that many other things contribute to current problems, including incredibly bad parenting.

Hey Chloe, no sadly not. I worked on it for hours yesterday till I was blind only to find out the program I had chosen was too limited in its capabilities. Will be adding more items at end of day but probably not the cart. In the meantime you could email me your order or call. I will be making fresh Turtles on Wednesday. They are great for Thanksgiving!

www.newmoonmagick.net

Ping, you're getting terrible about pontificating on things but not providing links to them. What the hell fed program is providing privacy rights to young girls re: STDs and pregnancy issues that doesn't already exist?

The single most important thing (well, maybe next to keeping children safe) in parent/child relations is communication -- the child's knowledge that they can tell their parents when they are in trouble without being shamed.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/arnold-to-the-rescue.html#comment-171719

sturg, ditto. Screw him - he made his bed...

Sorry, Don't know why it didn't link.
www.newmoonmagick.net

“Hard work is damn near as overrated as monogamy.”
Huey Long

Patsi - And the Government should make no laws that are not fully supportive of your point.. I agree

Off to my evil Capitalistic world to check out what is happening to the BOND Market.... and the impact

OUCH

"The single most important thing (well, maybe next to keeping children safe) in parent/child relations is communication "

Hear Hear!
And one that has to be constantly worked on.

60 votes -

2 votes from Maine
1 vote in PA.

Pogo.......In re Lieb: "Actions have consequences."

“The time has come for all good men to rise above principle.”
Huey Long

Hard to imagine the repug base would accept Arnold as party head. Are the party moderates organized enough to get one of their own put in the chairmanship?

You talkin' abaout HIPAA? The Health Insurance Portability and Accssibility ACT of 1996? Many states have laws that do the same thing - even we have them here in East Bumfuck. I don't agree with them as a blanket proposition, but they have their place - and the young girls can always consent to release their records to their parents. Patsi's comments about communication are particularly apt - that's the problem in most cases - kids want to have sex, parents don't want them to, and most parents don't handle the subject worth a damn.

Patsi: re your comment at 8:16: the point is, I CAN use lots of examples about Palin. They're out there.

(Claiming vindication by first Troopergate report which concluded she'd misused her office and stated so plainly; the fact a judge in her sister's child custody case told Sarah, Todd and other Palin relatives to back off and stop harrassing the trooper -- that is astounding in court filings, very unusual; lots and lots of petty lies and dissembling, her firings and threats to various Wasilla city employees, implying her opponent for mayor was not a Christian and not legally married -- she asked that his wife who used another name professionally provide a marriage certificate ... how many more do you need?)

You and KGC frequently bring up one outlier point about Jindal -- who is very skilled and has had some real successes.

That was my point.

Mike Huckabee is also a skilled politician and would have been a more formidable VP than Sarah Palin.

He is more than his son's abuse of a dog.

And no, I don't buy the "I was just saying" business. You would have phrased it differently AND you did not issue any retort to baccangel or others who questioned the comment.

Patsi: I don't like when people say "Rezko" anytime they hear "Obama" and John Edwards is way more than a $400 haircut and infidelity. He has some serious ideas, even if a flawed messenger.

That's what I was getting at with the defense of Jindal.

Schwarzenegger's a very complex person, with nuanced political views.

Don't like anyone being reduced to driveby language.

And yes, there are definitely things I like about Sarah Palin. She's got good qualities, as do we all.

While the shadow from the phenomenal 2005 hurricane season still looms large, Hurricane Paloma has pushed the 2008 season into the record books for a number of reasons:

http://blogs.usatoday.com/weather/2008/11/powerful-paloma.html?loc=interstitialskip

Feeling the Power
http://realclearpolitics.blogs.time.com/2008/11/10/feeling-the-power/

Have a good day.

dog's eye view -

The voice of reason rears it's head.

Hi there Anon. Good to see you.

Where do you hail from? Have noticed a few links from what seem to be Tennessee papers.

(FYI: I live in Northern Virginia about 11 miles south of the Pentagon. Much discussion of whether it's "real" Virginia in past campaign.)

Thinking of doing some bike riding along the Potomac today. Our leaves are past peak, but it's a pretty day here.

Under Obama, Web Would Be the Way
Unprecedented Online Outreach Expected

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/10/AR2008111000013.html?hpid=topnews

Keep those emails coming!

"That's what I was getting at with the defense of Jindal."

And there is much about Jindal to admire, so we agree on that. And I put his college experience where I put anyone's religious beliefs, their own. The thing I had noticed about Palin before all this hoopla, when she was in fact, at war with Republicans in Alaska, was that her religion didn't seem to have much play in her governing,

And of course, I have always stood at the opposite end on that troopergate thing. No one, ex brother-in-law or not, should be threatening the state governor. And if that person is being protected by someone then that official has to go.

Having said that, I certainly didn't want to see her in office. But no more than I wanted to see most other Republicans.

I am thrilled -- by the way -- that Obama's first order of business appears to be rolling back the Bush exec orders. It's the best news of the season.

But I do not see how people can shrug off any bizarre behavior on the part of some Republican candidates or their families, and call Sarah Palin trash for having a pregnant daughter.

"Don't like anyone being reduced to driveby language."

Then, dog, I don't see how you could have listened to anything throughout this political campaign. Because that's about all it was.

"Don't like anyone being reduced to driveby language."

PS -- you mean like "racist old hag"?

(just kidding....)

Anybody here about the norovirus that has broken out here in Holland? The local college (Hope College) has been closed until Wednesday. Over 400 cases of norovirus.

I'm sure we can all look for and find many examples of bad behavior in others, especially politicians.

Patsi: I still need to read your op ed! Put it aside during press of end of campaign volunteering; look forward to giving it a little time today or tomorrow and getting back to you.

=====

Have been enjoying Newsweek's look behind the scenes of 2008 campaign; has some humanizing nuggets. (McCain was saddened by his aides battling it out with leaks to Robt Draper for his NYTimes magazine cover article, etc., friends and aides gently changing subject in final days as McCain asked about poll numbers....don't like a lot of his campaign rhetoric and gimmicks, but have a lot of sympathy for McCain the human who finally got the nomination he sought and it had been so reduced in the 8 interim years...)

Here's Chapter 1 with link at top to all 7 chapters. Ch 1 is on Obama; Ch 2 on McCain. Am sure many of you have linked to this series previously (haven't read all the threads).

http://www.newsweek.com/id/167582

Scarborough drops F-bomb on MSNBC
(video)

http://www.politico.com/blogs/michaelcalderone/

If you like to read, there is an in with the late RFK's daughter Kathleen in the latest Reader's Digest. I read part of it at my Mom's. I read part of it. It was sad because she talked a lot about the tragedies her family has gone through. All the people in her family who died way too young.

Thanks for the Newsweek link, dog. I'd seen it and meant to flag that series, then forgot. I just scanned for now, no got it flagged. The interesting thing right off is that Michelle asked if somebody was setting Obama up...good observation on her part. She has an obvious mistrust of the politicos and I think that is a good thing.

*Interview*, I mean.

"There are only 2 rules in tv: Don't swear and don't whip it out." - Krusty the Clown

ROFL Corey!

Someone may have put this up already, but shall we start offering suggestions to the cable channels on what to do to hold their audiences now that the election is over?

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iQSDElWyrvuJ0q6N3mXW5P1pXuiQD94BJ77G0

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/arnold-to-the-rescue.html#comment-171671

Ping,

Arnie and his cigars are a team. He uses them unlit as a prop and lit asa sort of thoughtful pose. He had a tent put up at the capitol so that he would have a place to meet with others outside the no smoking building.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/arnold-to-the-rescue.html#comment-171710

New movie now in limited release:

The Boy In the Striped Pajamas

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0914798/

Corey, hadn't heard of it but wish you well and wash your hands fanatically!

Schwarzenegger is a jerk

http://www.smokersclubinc.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1415

Anyone concerned about Obama's judgment should consider this - Obama has made Lawrence Tribe one of his legal advisors. In my book, that is good judgment.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-11-10-obama-gitmo_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip

I'm beginning to like this guy a little more.

In the nothing new column: What a politician does all the time.

http://tinyurl.com/pissingpeopleoff

Don't take it personal Joe, Philly fans boo their own team.

http://tinyurl.com/phillyfansdobest

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/arnold-to-the-rescue.html#comment-171753

It may be my imagination, but Scarborough has seemed very cranky since the election. He gets all edgy, with little mini-tantrums whenever anyone disagrees with him even mildly.

Maybe they should just put Joe and Chris in a room together and keep whichever one emerges alive. The viewing public can take only so much haranguing in any one day.

The voice of reason rears it's ugly head.

Ugly, you forgot ugly.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/arnold-to-the-rescue.html#comment-171762

Arnie is a brilliant, funny and genuinely thoughtful man.

Jamie, I think Joe doesn't know what to think - he claims he was a conservative democrat before he was a republican, he seems to be socially liberal (contrary to his congressional voting record) and he recognizes that McCain blew it when he chose Palin for VP. All the things he championed when in Congress (cutting taxes and government programs, particularly eliminating the Depts. of Education, Eneergy and HUD) are going to be swept aside. Plus, he's got Mika and Chris to deal with. I'd be snippy, too.

Schwarzenegger is Sarah Palin with less experience.
Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger Only 38 percent of registered voters approve of the Governor's job performance, which is only two points above the Governor's all-time lowest rating. 9/28/08

Schwarznegger only cares about himself and a potential run for the senate.

oldseahag,
"I haven't seen him say anything unpatriotic, just questioning the chosen one which is not yet considered unpatriotic."

The Obama term will be very interesting to watch how criticism and those who deliver/report the criticism of a Black POTUS are portrayed? For example: The comments of Bill Clinton during the primary in SC this year were blown way out of proportion.

"Schwarznegger only cares about himself"

You mean like every other politician?

Anselm- Yes, will be watching, hope it doesn't reach post 9-11 proportions.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/arnold-to-the-rescue.html#comment-171770

Arnold is stuck with a legislature that has gerrymandered itself into cemented districts. It is the worst of both parties with far left at war with far right.

He is trying to govern a state that has about 15 million more people than it can house, has destroyed its best agriculture land and is now using up water like an alcoholic on a major bender. Throw in the great fires of recent history and the costs associated with those disasters any you have an ecological mess.

You have the very wealthy islands amid some of the countries worst poverty. A school system that used to rank as the best in the nation now one of the absolute worst. A population of multiple ethnicities enriches the culture while putting a horrid strain on schools and law enforcement. Drug wars, gang wars, and a rampant illegal immigration are just a few of the proplems.

Those that can are fleeing the state while those that can't grow in numbers. The tax base is collapsing while the needs increase. The state Constitution is a slave to the initiatives and the legislature doesn't help with its way to expensive pet projects and unwillingness to compromise.

Given all the problems totally out of his control, Schwarzennegger has done a very good job. The only reason his popularity is so low is that he has managed to piss off virtually everyone about something while trying to do it.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/arnold-to-the-rescue.html#comment-171688

Champ, my EX~ would love you !!!!

Today's thread on The BackChannel Blog

The 50 State Strategy, by dnd

http://clistersbackchannel.wordpress.com/

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/arnold-to-the-rescue.html#comment-171699

HEHEHEHEHEH that was really funny.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/arnold-to-the-rescue.html#comment-171769

In exchange for all the entertainment and aggravation that MSNBC has given us over the past several months, not to mention their good taste in employing Craig at regular intervals, I think we should make suggestions about their programming and what we would like to see.

If you were referring to what I think you were referring to, I've thought that for many, many months now.

Now I need to catch up with today's thread.

Posted by: chloe | November 10, 2008 8:19 AM

As weird as many people can be in here, I have yet to find one I could define as a "sociopath" in the classical definition of the word...

Take care

Speaking of California....this was on a friend's blog, and I think worthy of comments. Pogo -- you are a lawyer...thoughts? Craig?:

"The reality is, marriage from a legal standpoint is a civil contract first. You go to the county clerk's office to get a license, first. We have a secular government in this country, and the government's only concern about marriage is from a civil, legal perspective. Issues of property ownership, inheritance, child custody, healthcare benefits, etc. are not religious in nature, they are civil.

We do not exclude any group of citizens from entering into legal contracts. It is unconstitutional to restrict gays and lesbians from entering into a legal contract, just as it was unconstitutional to restrict African Americans from entering into legal contracts with whites. It is absolutely a civil rights issue from this perspective.

Some folks on the right might wish to muddy the waters by bringing religious belief into the argument but the bottom line is, religion has no part in this argument because we have a secular government. We have separation of church and state. Therefore, the government can no more mandate that churches marry gays and lesbians than the church can mandate that the government restrict GLBT people from entering into a legal marriage contract."

yes, Tom, I too have been wondering who chloe and seahag are classifying as a sociopath.

Out with it, ladies. If you can infer back and forth, you can tell us what you mean by your words and stand by your statement.

Posted by: dog's eye view | November 10, 2008 11:33 AM

How is that your business unless the shoe fits

Maybe they are talking about George Bush, dog.

sock: it is my business, and, being reasonable people, I think chloe and/or seahag will respond.

PS, sock: while I have your attention: I don't agree at all with your 10:44 a post.

Schwartzenegger has lots of experience, life and business, that Palin does not, and shows way more intellectual curiosity and pragmatism in his approach to governing. (Admitted, he had a rough start and got slapped back to a more centric path.)

He is a GOP governor in a Democratic-leaning state which has an enormous and diverse economy and many cultures interspersed.

Out of curiosity: does anyone know who were California's recent governors (like 40-50 years) with highest approval ratings? Am guessing Ronald Reagan might have been one of them....

that's possible, Patsi, in which case they can state that.

And compared to names I've been called here, sociopath is mild.

Or maybe they were talking about this guy:

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/27643324/

A sociopath and a moron. The very worst kind.

" California's recent governors (like 40-50 years) with highest approval ratings? Am guessing Ronald Reagan might have been one of them.... "

Not among the homeless.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/arnold-to-the-rescue.html#comment-171780

Patsi, This is at the heart of the Constitutional argument regarding gay and lesbian relationships as opposed to heterosexual ones.

It is patently discriminatory to force one group of citizens to pay huge sums of money to acquire a set of rights that are given to another group simply by virtue of a marriage license. And even if the restricted group does jump through all the legal hoops that are other rights and privileges denied to them that even a contract cannot grant such as filing a joint tax return.

These very personal "partnerships" should be licenced in the exactly the same way with all the rights and responsibilities that go with that condition. Then if they want to solemnize it in some religious service in front of friends and relatives or just hold a big party, it shouldn't be a matter for the state or law.

Patsi, you are my favourite sociopath !! (ET ducks) :-)

Oh wait, did I mean my favourite socialist?

Nah, you're one of my favourites period. When I first joined the blog, it was you and Jamie who really connected with me. I remember you and I having some private convos regarding Jackie Kennedy and other famous peoples. I think you are clever, strong and witty.

By the way, can I publish your 1980 article in my blogs? I'd like to share it with others.

Tom

P.S. I wasn't challenging Sea or Chloe... I was just not seeing who would qualify as sociopath. Even Gordo doesn't deserve THAT tile :-) Now, paranoic, that's another thing altogether... xoxoxo

ET -- I'll proudly be your favorite sociopathic socialist!

(Sure put the 1980 thing up....it does tend to remind one that this is an old fight. Not to mention it reinforces that even all those years ago, I was willing to take a stand on behalf of a (gasp!) Republican woman.)

Sociopaths here? Never. Other words come to mind at times, but never sociopath.

Schwarzenegger is like Palin and so was Reagan

Brown spoke condescendingly of Reagan's inexperience and ridiculed his film career. But he was no match for Reagan's homespun magnetism. The Reagan campaign capitalized on popular anger at student demonstrations on the Berkeley campus of the University of California, and it portrayed Brown as an old-fashioned politician out of touch with the people. Reagan, in contrast, presented himself as an ordinary citizen fed up with politics and committed to making government more efficient and accountable. He defeated Brown in a landslide.

Handing over the White House

The US President-elect, Barack Obama, is to visit the White House with his family at the invitation of outgoing President George W Bush.
During the visit Mr Obama, wife Michelle and their two young daughters, Sasha and Malia, will be given a personal tour by Mr Bush. The Republican incumbent, whose policies Mr Obama frequently criticised on the campaign trail, has appeared keen to smooth the transition to power for his Democratic successor.

But it hasn't always been like this. Here is a look at some of the trickier transitions.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/us_elections_2008/7719862.stm

I am off to watch THE WEAKEST LINK , original version.

Corey, did you read the comment I sent you re: the birthday gift that made you feel so bad?

Patsi, I hope we get to meet someday! Maybe you and Tony can both come and visit ;-)

Tom

heck bring Jamie too !!!

Patsi, as if you didn't know - it's a complicated subject. I'm just noodling here, but the "contract" view of marriage is fairly recent legally. Marriage has evolved legally, and relatively rapidly in the past 50-100 years from what was once little more than a state sanction of a religious rite (there were actually parallel paths, e.g. Justice of the Peace marriages), but the state's role has been largely administrative, and the staate laws governing who can/can't marry, etc. are deeply rooted in and largely preserving the traditional notions of one man-one woman marriage found in Judeo-Christian religion. Of course, the notion of equality is a fairly recent one as well, but I digress. While the argument that it is unconstitutional for the state to deny man-man, woman-woman couples the rights and privileges available to man-woman marriages is pretty much a matter of state law to this point (thus, MA and CA STATE COURT decisions that denial of those rights was unconstitutional, then CA changed its constitution), there is always the possibility that a case could rise through the federal courts challenging a state constitution's violation of federal equal rights - if someone can figure a way to get around the fact that states aren't subject to suits like those (sovereign immunity, ya know). Considering the makeup of the SCOTUS, I wouldn't expect it to be a successful challenge. The contractual rights angle isn't one that strikes me as particularly strong, since contractual rights as peculiarly a creature of law that is subject to state limitations. I mean, why one man, one woman as opposed to multiple partners? If you take the religious angle out, it's wholly arbitrary.

"Maybe you and Tony can both come and visit ;-) "

ROFL, Tom -- Tony would be my best looking date in about a decade....

On popular California governors, I would vote for Pat Brown, Sr. He owned the job for 18 years.during what was one of California's true "golden" eras from 1959 to 1967. Some rotten things happened while he was governor, but over all he was good for the state.

He was followed by Reagan who, while popular with a large part of the population, was very bad for the state as a whole and set it on a downward spiral that it has never truly recovered from.

Isn't PEOTUS Obama opposed to gay marriages? I think he is in favor of civil unions, but not gay marriages.

"He was followed by Reagan who, while popular with a large part of the population, was very bad for the state as a whole and set it on a downward spiral that it has never truly recovered from."

Kind of like what happened with the country...huh?

I spent a day with Maureen Reagan during her father's first campaign. (She knew I was voting for Carter and didn't question it.) But she talked a lot about the businessmen who thought they would control her dad. She said she hoped they would be surprised that he couldn't be controlled.

"I mean, why one man, one woman as opposed to multiple partners? If you take the religious angle out, it's wholly arbitrary."

As long as it is consenting adults, why would that be a problem? A lot of societies swear by the practice.

October 2, 2008 Vice-Presidential Debate in St. Louis, Missouri

IFILL: Let's try to avoid nuance, Senator. Do you support gay marriage?

BIDEN: No. Barack Obama nor I support redefining from a civil side what constitutes marriage. We do not support that. That is basically the decision to be able to be able to be left to faiths and people who practice their faiths the determination what you call it.

Meant to type 8 rather than 18 for Pat Brown. Here is the whole list

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Governors_of_California

Patsi, Maureen was a truly class act who died way too young.

OT:
New Bamiyan Buddha find amid destruction

BAMIYAN, Afghanistan (AFP) – "We got him!" screamed Afghan archaeologist Anwar Khan Fayez as he leapt from the pit beneath the towering sandstone cliffs, where the Bamiyan Buddhas once stood.

Seven years after Taliban militants blew up the two 1,500-year-old statues in a fit of Islamist zealotry, a French-Afghan team in September uncovered a new, 19-metre (62-foot) "Sleeping Buddha" buried in the earth.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20081109/wl_sthasia_afp/afghanistanarchaeologybuddhismunrest_081109053934;_ylt=AkoInZxkw2JM8.19TF5JNMcUewgF

Speaking of:

"When asked by Chris Wallace what "conservative solutions" the GOP would bring to their current minority-party status, Pence said social issues like "the sanctity of marriage" will remain the backbone of the Republican platform."

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/GOP_leader_Rebuild_party_based_on_1109.html

Marriage ------I wear the pants around here!

Wearing the pants in the family.....
A young man was about to get married and his father wanted to give him some fatherly advise....he said, son on your wedding night when you are getting ready for bed, you tell her like I told your mama 25 years ago when we got married, I took off my pants and handed them to her and told her to try these on.....she took them and tried them on and said, I can't wear them they are too big and he said and don't you forget it, I wear the pants in this family and we have been happy ever since....so the young man decided to use his dad's system and on his wedding night, he took off his pants and gave them to his new wife and said tp her try these on and she took them and tried them on and handed them back to him saying I can't wear these they are too big and he said and don't you forget it I wear the pants in this family so she took off her panties and
threw them at him and said put these on, he took them and said these are too small I can't get into your panties....and she said "and you never will if you don't change your
friggin attitude"....

Postal Unions won't like this, but they can't do much about it. Strike won't work, they tried that once and the president at the time said he would bring in the military to deliver the mail.

http://www.ksla.com/global/story.asp?s=9247633

RezDog- I tossed it out last night as just a little food for thought. Read the thread if you like. As for Chloe's comment this morning, I can only surmise who she meant I won't put names in her mouth,

Sorry again, Dog's eye view

Does Putin see the Obama victory in the same light as a retired coach returning to his old job believing he has an easy schedule? Is this why Putin is talking about returning as president?

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=081109233753.lmtu9caj&show_article=1

Too much Chocolate osh? :-)

Now I wish I lived in Virginia. Terry McAuliff running for governor. That will be a fun campaign.

A very thorough scrubbing. No traces can even be found at http://www.archive.org/, you would normally find some traces of a web site, but not in this case.

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/nov/11/exclusive-obama-deletes-agenda-from-transition-web/

A condom only reduces the chances, they do not prevent the chances. Abstinence, prevents both.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601070&sid=aKrIK33ovrk8&refer=politics.

jamie, I agree - anyone who doesn't think we dems (I don't mean you and me :-)) aren't hypocrites on the issue should think back to the thrumming we gave Mitt Romney over the issue. I personally have found it challenging enough to try and be married to one woman at a time (and I imagine my spouses have foundn it challenging enough to be married only to me)... I can't imagine why anyone would want to multiply the complications.

So Palin is going to be on the Today Show tomorrow. I guess she's not planning on fading away gracefully. I sure hope she's the GOP nominee in 2012

Jamie,
"Now I wish I lived in Virginia. Terry McAuliff running for governor. That will be a fun campaign."

Wouldn't it help if he was likable and not so condescending?

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/arnold-to-the-rescue.html#comment-171817

LOL. Condoms on the other hand are a real world solution that work very well when they are used, and they are a whole lot cheaper than AIDS drugs. Abstinence - works when it is used - right up until kids hit puberty. No amount of education keeps kids (and adults) from screwing.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/arnold-to-the-rescue.html#comment-171817

A condom used properly pretty much minimizes any chances of HIV transmission. Human nature is such that mistakes are made or safety disregarded. But if we use your argument Anselm (and it has some validity), we can demand total sexual abstinence country-wide. HIV is only one danger from sexual activity. Pregnancy is often dangerous so perhaps everyone should abstain in order never to get pregnant. Smoking is dangerous, so everyone should be forced to not smoke. Obesity is dangerous, so all fast food restaurants and pre-packaged foods could be forbidden. Drinking creates a myriad of health problems so spirits could once again be prohibited. Cars are deadly, so maybe everyone should abstain and rely on public transport. Since high speeds are dangerous perhaps the maximum speed limit should be 30 !!!

Anyone else want to add to the list of what we should abstain from to maintain health and safety

Anselm,

"The 25 agenda items are still available on Mr. Obama's campaign site."

Just exactly what is your beef?

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/arnold-to-the-rescue.html#comment-171821

Well pogo, enforced castration could be instituted to ensure no sexual activity happens. Abstinence saves lives !!

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/11/arnold-to-the-rescue.html#comment-171823

His beef is that he is a Republican who dislikes the Democratic party. I understand because I feel the same way about his party. It's the nature of the beast.

No, I hardly ever eat it. Just little nibbles. But I screw up every time on the dogs and the pogo ping pongs.

Terry McAuliffe and Global Crossing. Oh for the good old days.

http://www.judicialwatch.org/archive/newsletter/2002/0402a.shtml

I sort of feel sorry for Sarah Palin. She was thrust in this campaign with virtually no background and suddenly the eyes of America were focussed on her. I disagree with her politics, but I find her comments over the ticket loss to be pretty correct and honest.

I believe this link has already appeared, but it's worth reading:

Palin: GOP ticket was too ‘status quo’

laska Gov. Sarah Palin said Sunday that she and running mate John McCain lost because the Republican ticket “represented too much of the status quo.”

In an interview with the Anchorage Daily News posted on the paper’s site Monday morning, Palin pointed a finger at the Bush administration for souring the GOP brand, adding that it was “amazing” that the McCain campaign did as well as it did.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1108/15474.html

"Maureen was a truly class act who died way too young. "

yes, indeed, Jamie.

"....and she said "and you never will if you don't change your
friggin attitude"...."

ROFL, Solar.

"Terry McAuliff running for governor."

There's one campaign I won't be donating to....

ET, you're missing Anselm's point - it ain't about letting people know what will and what won't work, and it ain't about doing good, it's about telling people how to live their lives and saying "See, I told you so" when they don't follow the way of the Puritans. And it ain't about giving people things that will mak