Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

http://www.palinbingo.com/

tt

Read all about it:

"Rock Out With Your Bailout
After government rescue, insurance firm AIG partied at swank resort"

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/1007083aig1.html

tt

Just look at that red streak down the center of the country. Disgusting!

tt

TIPTOE: Here's more scoop on the AIG BAILOUT PARTIFEST
__________________________
Connect the dots here, from McCain Supporters to the AIG/St.Regis $400,000.00 weekend, to Makar Properties, Paul Makarechian Hotelier-Filmaker-GenNext PAC, McCain Campaign, Hillary The Movie, & The Bail-Out. It might make for interesting affiliations and conflicts of interest, You Decide...You Report!
Economic Crisis Doesn't Seem To Dominate McCain's Unidentified Support Of AIG's $400,000.00 Weekend & McCain Conrtibutors That Own Resort Where AIG Execs Partied At After Taxpayer Bailout. Connect The Dots....MCCAIN-MAKARECHIAN(IRANIAN)-AIG-MAKAR LLC CONTRIBUTIONS-ST. REGIS HOTEL-AIG PARTY WEEKEND WITH GEN NEXT PAC
-------------
AIG Spa Trip Fuels Fury on Hill
Pressing Executives to Concede Mistakes, Lawmakers Blast Them About Bonuses
By Peter Whoriskey, Washington Post Staff Writer www(dot)washingtonpost(dot)com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/07/AR2008100702604(dot)html CONNECT THE DOTS: AIG EXEC's $440,000 SPA BILL FROM ST. REGIS, OWNED BY MAKAR PROPERTIES LLC, IRANIAN MAKARECHIAN FAMILY, MCCAIN CONTRIBUTORS & GEN-NEXT PAC & 'Hillary, The Movie' SEE BELOW:

~The man who made Gen-Next possible is Davidson’s boss, 33-year-old Paul Makarechian, Chief Executive Officer
and Owner of Makar Properties. company is a national
diversified real estate development and holding company with
approximately $800 million in assets representing over $3
billion of development.
Chairman: Paul Makarechian
Website: www(dot)gen-next(dot)org Freeing Hollywood from the Liberal Left, One Film at a Time. A conservative movement is brewing in Hollywood and the
Liberty Film Festival is at the center of it. Enjoy the first-ever Liberty Film Festival event in Orange County with famous conservative filmmakers, renowned cultural commentators, and exclusive
looks at exciting new films about Hillary Clinton,
“Hillary: The Movie”
Owner Of St. Regis/McCain Contributor
MAKAR PROPERTIES LLC
www(dot)makarproperties(dot)com
Hadi Makarechian~Chairman Of The Board
Cyrus Makarechian~President & Chief Executive Officer
Paul Makarechian~Executive Vice President
St. Regis Resort www(dot)stregismb(dot)com

American International Group Inc. spent US$440,000 on a conference at a California resort less than a week after an US$85-billion government takeover, lawmakers said.
The bill from the St. Regis resort in Monarch Beach included US$23,380 for spa services, according to Representative Henry Waxman, chairman of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform. Mr. Waxman led questioning Tuesday of former AIG chief executives Martin Sullivan and Robert Willumstad as Congress probes events that led to federal intervention.
~Paul Makarechian
Political Campaign Contributions
2008 Election Cycle
www(dot)campaignmoney(dot)com/political/contributions/paul-makarechian(dot)asp?cycle=08

~Senior McCain Campaign Advisor Steve Schmidt and Orange County
businessman, developer and hotelier Paul Makarechian
www.(dot)lashreport(dot)org/featured-columns-library0b(dot)php?faID=2008032601051291

~MAKARECHIAN McCain & GOP Campaign Contributions
www(dot)newsmeat(dot)com/fec/bystate_detail(dot)php?city=CORONA+DEL+MAR++++&st=CA&last=MAKARECHIAN
~Senator John McCain came through Orange County on day two of a multi- day swing through ... businessman, developer and hotelier Paul Makarechian
www(dot)redcounty(dot)com/magazine/2008/03/publius-the-year-of-the-parabo(dot)php
~These John McCain Republicans, aren't your father's Republicans.
www(dot)freerepublic(dot)com/focus/f-news/1431396/posts
Paul Makarechian, 31, showed up in jeans to host an event with Assembly GOP Leader Kevin McCarthy of Bakersfield. That was at Fashion Island's trendy Ozumo Japanese restaurant. Another of the group's events, this one featuring a congressman, was held at Costa Mesa's hip Sutra Lounge
www(dot)ocregister(dot)com/ocr/sections/news/news/slideshow_575921.php?pos=0
Elite and hip make up new GOP set
OF EVERY STRIPE: Sinan Kanatsiz, left, and Paul Makarechian are two directors on Generation Next’s board, an ethnically diverse body. Members’ heritage includes Iranian, Armenian, Turkish and Hispanic.
-------------------------------
www(dot)gen-next(dot)org/filepoolgennext/redcountygnxt(dot)pdf
Political Candidates Receiving Contributions/Support in the '08 Election Cycle from GENERATION NEXT FEDERAL PAC
MCCAIN, JOHN S. President Republican VA -- P $5,000 03/24/2008
www(dot)campaignmoney(dot)com/political/committees/generation-next-federal-pac(dot)asp?cycle=08
Since forming last year, the Orange County-based group has signed up 20 members - by invitation only, with $10,000 in annual dues.
Members include Bill Lyons, the son of developer William Lyons.
The group has had audiences with Senator John McCain, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, Karl Rove's staff and the political director of the Republican National Committee.

High court rejects anti-Clinton movie case and when a news publication or media outlet exposes this story of the backers of this movie to the AIG $4OO,OOO.OO St. Regis weekend, the McCain Campaign Contributions, the Governor's Office of California, Generation Next PAC, the Makarechian Family/Makar Properties, back to Hillary The Movie....................shit will hit the fan.
Here's the final 'gotchya': Makar Properties was in the middle of building a enormous development in Huntington Beach, California named: PACIFIC CITY www(dot)pacificcityhb(dot)com . As part of Makar's development, they were to pay 22 Million Dollars for a city park/senior center. As of Sept. 04 2008, Makar has failed to pay the city of Huntington Beach $22 million in fees for building a senior center after missing two deadlines, city officials said. The developers said last week that a 32-acre project on Pacific Coast Highway is a year behind schedule, and they do not have financing for the construction yet. They said the bad economy, tougher construction loan obligations and negotiations with the city delayed their mixed-use project named Pacific City. "We just had to slow down to make sure all our ducks were in a row to move forward," Gagnet said during an interview last week about the construction. A plausible indication Makar is waiting for either the AIG or Wall St. Bail Out from which they would receive funds? Let's find out!

I should put ALL these guys on The List or just roll them up into a pervasive Wall Street bundle.

tt

BTW, were are all those Kennedy's now?

tt

This is the map today, to bad the election is not today. The latest Gallup tracking poll shows the race getting a little closer. They are now doing a daily likely voter tracking poll which has it even closer. So it is not over until the "FAT VOTER SINGS" on November 4th.

VJ Machiavelli
http://www.vjmachiavelli.blogspot.com

Craig, there is NOT going to be any Obama landslide! Why are all the pundits and even pollsters discounting WHY Obama is where he is? There is no precedent for this economic collapse that you can compare it to past elections. The pollsters and pundits are considering it at face value. Period.

THINGS ARE NOT AS THEY SEEM. All these people who immediately switched to Obama to punish Bush, have plenty of time for buyer's remorse. No way are people worried about their 401K's going to give this questionable, unqualified candidate control of their money.

As fast as this thing changed 10 days ago, it is just as volitile to change back - which it will. It already has tonight with BO losing 4 of his 9 points. IF Obama wins, he will be lucky to have one extra state beyond what it takes to win.

LANDSLIDE!

Craig you're upsetting the repugs, LOL. And Fran it's exactly what's happening to peoples 401ks that people are flooding to the Obama & Democrats. Yet again it will take a Democrat to get out us the mess you GOPers have caused.

And btw Fran, McCain won't even reach 200 electoral votes, mark my words.

I was sorely dissed to see on the local news here in Ohio , today, that McCain is 2 points ahead .

Dex you can find just as many polls that show Obama ahead, and don't forget about Obama's ground game. Ohio will probably be close, but it looks like it's going to be blue come eleciton night.

It was even worse last September 30...State: Ohio

Updated: 9/30/2008

Summary:
McCain - 49.8%
Obama - 43.9%
Not Sure/Other - 6.3%

I get the feeling it's going to go late into the night to decide Ohio...but Crist nearly abandoning McCain in FL is very heartening.

Frankly I don't think Ohio will matter in terms of knowing who won the election, I think once they call Florida it will be over for McCain, especially if he loses Virginia too.

Barack’s Cool Pop
He spent months trying to find the right economic voice. And his steady, understated, optimistic populism arrived just in time.

http://nymag.com/news/politics/powergrid/51166/

I hear the news reports about Acorn, and then about Palin, and then about AIG & McCain, and I have to call it all just political candy - sustenance for the arguers who can never stop iterating why they are right and others are wrong.

These are tricky times, and it won't pay to let our personal desires to be on the winning team cloud our judgement. Every voter should have a clear idea of where his/her vote is going, and the consequences of it.

I can live with most choices the voters make, but I really don't want to have to accept a choice made on the basis of hurt feelings or gender discrimination or personality or the emotional pull of patriotism. I hope all the voters in the country really think about the meaning and consequences of their votes.

If it were just about me, I'd say the hell with you all, and , boy, would I mean just that - but it's not at all about me. It's about the future of the USA and the rest of the world. I think now more than ever before, it's time to grow up and recognize the responsibility facing us. Stop the slurs and insults, and listen to the other guy's thoughts, and for once really consider them.

Good Morning
Bettyboo has the most valued point of all...

Plus someone needs to teach the paid Obama bloger above how to post links and not be such a hog... suueeeewweeeee wyattbeck

Remember the polls --- USC will take the football world.. Oh Something happened!

Those for McCain must stop the noise about Barack as all this does chums the waters and stirs the dust.

If this race can become about substance and core values - it can turn on a dime.

But until then Craigsters Co. Map is an interesting site.

What is McCain doing now? and who is running his ship. The truth behind all of this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KzbJtG9V2E

good morning news

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7666608.stm

"If this race can become about substance and core values"

That's the saddest thing about this (as Obama once called it) silly season. BS is overshadowing issues. The economy is in a meltdown and we've got posters in junior high mode, clucking about "gloating" and pointing fingers at ANYONE who dares disagree on any level.

It's a return to the days when to ask a question about Bush got you a "Love it or Leave it" kick in the face. And the Bush voters of 2004 aren't gloating much now.

And on another note, I can't believe McCain thinks he can whip anybody's butt in the next "debate."

Bailout Scorecard: Ignorant Masses 1, Elites 0
By: DeanBaker Sunday October 12, 2008 6:55 am
0
diggs
digg it

I know it’s rude in DC policy circles to ever hold people accountable for the things they said way back when they were two weeks younger, but I like to break rules.

Remember all those folks who said that it was absolutely essential that the bailout bill be passed immediately or the economy would collapse? How can these people explain the fact that 10 days after he has had the full legal authority to act, Secretary Paulson has still done nothing with the $700 billion that Congress handed him. Doesn’t Paulson realize the urgency?
http://oxdown.firedoglake.com/diary/668

Great line --whenever McCain has doubled down -he has tripled his losses!

the bbc on a more serious topic

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7662943.stm

"....fanatics find it easier to discover the shared nature of their fanaticism thanks to the internet...."

michaels - Well done humor video.
Problem is with the thinking man formula not shown is OBAMA = BUSH in fiscal irresponsibility spending.
As Bush has not been a fiscal conservative and allowed the Chris, Barney, Nancy and Harry to have their way.
Did the Dems demand social policy to overrule fiscal policy and use the Fed to drive programs in trade to support the troops?

Back to actual issues. The other day, George Soros said the "housing crisis" was less to do with the bad loans than the inflated, unrealistic housing market (prices) it created. I'd love to hear what some of the money types here have to say about that, and hear them take it a bit further. Ping? Bear?

One must ask looking back at Bush, Why did he allow such liberal policy and not stand up ?

These are comples issues and campaign matters Barack is kicking McCain in the @$$.

We must determine if the CHANGE that is BARACK will continue

"Great line --whenever McCain has doubled down -he has tripled his losses"

Ha! Good article, KGC. I'm still seething about that $400,000-plus "retreat" taken on tax payer money. And did you listen to any of those hearing yesterday? Unbelievable.

That comment is like saying the house burning down is more like the cracking of the wooden studs and it is less about the gas that was thrown on the fire and ignited with the match !!

Mr Soros has his own agenda

You can not ignore cause and effect and then only focus on the effect - Well you can if you want to help hide the Dem party

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/obamas-slippery-landslide.html#comment-158106

"Stop the slurs and insults,and listen to the other guy's thoughts,and for once really consider them"'
Bethy
I thankyou for this post.If I could always remember what you have expressed here,I would be a smarter and happier human being,really the benefits would be endless....

Let me rephrase -- This is not A dem Party thing.
It was enabled by complacent Pres Bush - was he trading something in the political world?

It is our current Gov thing - which is a Dem Congress

My greatest concern is that the idiots that are the guiltiest in throwing the gas on the house are hiding behind Barack Obama.

They have been successful in avoiding the full accountability that is equal and should be shared with Bush.

They have been successful in avoiding the full accountability that is equal and should be shared with Bush.
abled by complaincent Pres Bush - was he trading something in the political world?

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/obamas-slippery-landslide.html#comment-158113

Oh Patsi
The wisdom in your post! I remember when if you said anything negative about Bush, you were met with ridicule....Different times same stuff! Silly season indeed...........

IF Barack Obama stayed true to HIS WORDS JUST WORDS -

and I could turn a blind eye to the historical facts (not the evil that some try to make him) of his liberal and socialistic values -

that he will NOT drive Social and political agenda in the most extreme way at the cost of the Fundamentals of Free Enterprise and Capitalism

Then I could vote for Barack....

History shows all the wings in the world cannot help a pig fly....

Sad so many distractions

Bethy, after I read Tony's comment, I want back and reread your fine comment. Good on you!

Now, if you could take it one step farther and put your closing paragraph into a Shakespearean or Churchillian voice so that it will be treasured for the ages.

"If it were just about me, I'd say the hell with you all, and , boy, would I mean just that - but it's not at all about me. It's about the future of the USA and the rest of the world. I think now more than ever before, it's time to grow up and recognize the responsibility facing us. Stop the slurs and insults, and listen to the other guy's thoughts, and for once really consider them."

Yeah, celebrate after the election returns come in, not before.

Missed Bill yesterday, but loved Hil'ry & Joe. Outstanding! Anyone notice that Hil'ry dropped the odd "g" when she was talkin'. (chuckle)

MoJo was wrong this morning. It is different. Bringing up someone's record vs bringing up something that causes tension and could bring out the violent, crazy folks. Waaaay different.

Bethy..... you mean you think we should act like mature adults...... well.... I know some of us will.....

of course housing prices were way over inflated...... it didn't take a financial genius to see it..... just a bit of common sense..... and those prices shouldn't come back if we want to see actual stability in the long term, IMO.....

I don't know if I could stand one more boring debate..... I'll try.....

"I don't know if I could stand one more boring debate....I'll try...." Ha Ha ,Same here!!!

RebRenee- and how did they get over inflated.
Fact - By using the Fed to drive social and political policy against and contra to the FUNDAMENTALS of sound fiscal policy.

If this is ignored history will repeat itself

Unless you want to try a different system?

? Question...

Will anyone of the stanch Obama supporters act as Bethy has so well laid out and is willing to take on my arguments?

Again I await, and await ......

Flatus wrote--Oct,11,2008 8;53am

Anybody or any country can claim anything. I remember back in the mid 70s when Ecuador claimed the space where geosynchronous satellites orbit. Quite obviously they had no ability to defend their claim except in philosophical terms. Bottom line, the claim was completely ignored.

It follows that, when a country makes a territorial claim, it had better be prepared to act militarily to enforce said claim. Kind of like the de facto claim Russia has made and defended in parts of sovereign Georgia.

There are lots of claims in between those two extremes like the bottom-grab for potentially productive oil fields beneath newly open Arctic waters.

If I was to be a lawyer, I'm sure I would find this area of law fascinating.

Im sure this is a fine example, if we were talking about Ecuador, lets stick to the what we are talking about Mexico, I'm sure that Russia is diff also, military enforcement, there was a war in 1846 no? lastly, like air space, don't we have mapping of international waters? if yes then claims have to be looked at independently of each other, not in artic waters, but in the gulf of Mexico ( Mexico is just a coincidence of both topics-not defending--just supplying info) there is a defined border. There is a deep-sea floating platform, that Chevron,Shell And British Petro will be syphoning oil from a neighboring country. I would not want to be casual about anyone stealing 100,000 barrels of oil per day, shouldn't this be looked into? I don’t know too much about Russia, did read about Vladamire the impaler, the Siege at Leningrad,saw the black and whit version of Beauty and the Beast, and odds and ends , and ditto it sure would be fascinating to be a lawyer in in this area.

X Republican 11;21 post oct 11, 2008

I don't think that I am as good as you are----I can have a conversation with 1-3 posters at the same time (maybe) you can have one with as many as 6-10 all at the same time, how do you keep it all straight?.

Yeah, Renee, loaning so-called investors virtually 100-pct of the value of illiquid assets such as real estate is idiocy. The more illiquid the asset, the higher the margin that should be required. And no more using the value of one illiquid asset as collateral for the purchase of another. Idiocy fueled by greed.

! Answer.....

I doubt it as the key to Obama success has been the ability of McCain Campaign to enable that lack of dialogue on substantive issues.

Of Course they do not want the dust to settle....

It is a silly season -

Bethyboo--------Hi;

First let me tell you NO you don’t come across as narrow, bigoted, or offensive, it shows you have put quite a lot of time thinking about this as you said, and it’s with great pleasure that this topic can be discussed with out it being offensive language to any one.

While I was in the Marine Corps, I had 2 friends that (we) wrote to each other, some topics were a little touchy, including f—in religion, I agree churches, what a shame, all that space, time, labor, $ that went into building them, and don’t forget all the lives that were lost------when I think of the violence that Popes were capable of it drives me nuts.
I believe religion is the last taboo and should be talked about constantly…… sorry if I’m going on but I just came to me that this form of conversation is excellent on such a touchy subject is that we can’t interrupt, or talks over each other. There was only one time that I didn’t like receiving a letter from home, in boot camp I received a letter from the gal I was engaged to----she said hey I just got married, I knew, and did not like the person that she married, every one thought that there was going to be big trouble---not so,when I got home Sue and I talked, convinced her to go to the club picnic, we had sex, I told her new hubby about it ,,boy that was a close call, and I might not have met my little italino spitfire Judy (32 yrs-good and bad) last thought on this, I wish that she would post some of the stuff she say’s to me on a blog---it might come out a little less than I’ll kill you you dirty rat, sorry a little Bogart, as I am writing all this sill stuff down im thinking how to wirte to you, so now, (I am sorry to all for the long posts) I’ll start another post if you don’t mind---between you and me we will drive everyone here nuts---or is it just a short walk away?, now I know what to say when she say’s im driving her nuts.

Bethy---- cont,
Once again Pres. Polks dubious justification for the nation's first offensive war, American blood shed on American soil, was the first time but not the last-----Im glad we had the Panama Canal, we would have lost the war if we did not, and I admire what the corps of engineers accomplished there, but how did we get it, I have to stop this now starting to ramble,,,,,,,but this last thing might seem to you a little picky but, you have mentioned twice now that the people were not happy in Mexico-- a lot or propaganda did this, and
Bethy-------Over here-----over here—ok down to business.

Behty, you have now acknowledged the facts--- of yes we stole, over taken, etc, nuff said, with the understanding that Indians have the only real claim here, and have nothing to show for it, don’t get me started, what we did to them in Louisiana alone----but lets go on.

Texas—Robert Greenhow, the state Department’s librarian and a respected historian, in 1845 completed History of Florida, Louisiana, Texas and California, and of the Adjoining Countries. He book purportedly demonstrated that Texas had remained a Spanish possession from 1763 until Mexican independence in 1821---and never was part of the Louisiana Purchase.

The first known reference to the Rio Grande as Texas’s southwest border was in 1803, when the USA asserted that the newly purchased Louisiana Territory,in fact included Texas, “to the Del Norte (Rio Grande).” France had expropriated the Louisiana Territory from Spain when Spain failed to contribute money or troops to their military alliance during the Napoleonic ware. But the Louisiana Territory’s boundaries were undefined then, and still just as vague when France Spain rejected the US claim to Texas, asserting that it had never been part of Louisiana,the 1819 Adam-Onis treaty, in which Spain ceded the Floridas to the US, established the Sabine River as the Texas-Louisiana border and settled the dispute over Texas ownership.

On early nineteenth-century Mexican maps, the Nueces River is clearly Texas’s border with adjacent Coahuila Spain drew this boundary in 1816, and over the next two decades, in atlases and maps—including Stephen Austin’s when he was colonizing southeast Texas---the Nueces was the Texas-Coahuila border. When he was attempting to buy Texas, Andrew Jackson had accepted the Nueces as Texas’s boundary. In 1836, twenty years after Spain drew the Nueces boundary between Texas and Coahuila, the newly triumphant Texan_American insurgents compelled General Santa Anna to sign a treaty---which Mexico repudiated—placing the Texas-Mexico boundary on the Rio Grande.

General Zachary Taylor had ordered a new Texas map drawn with the most upto-date information. After the map was completed, Tayor, Colonel Hitchcock, and other staff officers critiqued it and then forwarded it to the Quartermaster General’s office in Washington for printing.
When the printed map was delivered to Taylor's camp in late August, Taylor and his staff observed that someone in Washington had made a slight change, a boundary line had been added, tracing the Rio Grande, Hitchcock angrly wrote,Our people ought to be damned for their impudent arrogance and domineering presumption, it is enough to make atheists of us all to see such wickedness in the world, whether punished of unpunished.There is more but I am going to stop here, These Generals, and most Military people did what they were told, Gen Scott was ordered to manufacture a war he did , they did, but under duress.
careful planning.

Sorry this will be the last--Pres. Polk (and news papers) enticed the country to go war, hell he even made a regiment out of the unwanted Mormons, gave them $ money to settle out west.

Bethy once again it's been a pleasure, I wish that Mr. D would get over his anger, I bet he would have a very educational conversation with someone to give us perspective about the black exp,, what i know is not enough, love G.W.Carver a slave that turned down(to work with him) Albert Instine--shows what a brain i am can't even spell Einstein write, he only shows up when Patsi is around----if he's not careful she is going to slap him around a little, just kidding Mr.D but you sound very interesting, how bout it? Very interesting side note, before the Mex, US war there were 1 million Anglo Mexicans, (in Mexico) mostly Irish,.lots of Blacks,lots of Indians,lots of spanish,,,,I guess if you believe like I do that we all came out of Africa( genetics proves this) we are just fighting ourselves, who started this race shit anyway----oh yea the politicians, that's another good long story. huh?
But it should how (with the help of News papers once again) they separated the masses into inferior people, from the acceptable ones, and all for greed, and power, and the f---in two party system is also guilty imo

Once again the Republican Fascist Nazi Party is actively working to have their supporters murder Senator Obama.

"RICHMOND -- The chairman of the Virginia Republican Party has compared Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama to Osama bin Laden because of the Illinois senator's past association with Bill Ayers, who has confessed to domestic bombings as a member of the Vietnam War-era Weather Underground. "

"It was the third time in a little more than a week that Gitcho repudiated something said or written by someone affiliated with McCain's Virginia leadership team. Last week, the head of the McCain campaign in Buchanan County in southwest Virginia was forced to resign after a column surfaced in which he made disparaging remarks about Obama, African Americans and gay people. Last weekend, the McCain campaign distanced itself from McCain's brother, Joe McCain, after he referred to Alexandria and Arlington County as "communist country." "

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/12/AR2008101201956.html

It seems that the RFN's have already forgotten that one of their supporters killed the head of the DNC in Arkansas

"Bill Gwatney was gunned down Wednesday at the height of state dominance of the Democratic Party, in the shadow of the state Capitol where his public service career began.

A car dealer who served as a state senator and party chairman, Gwatney was killed by a man who burst into his office and introduced himself before shooting him. There were no signs that Gwatney and the gunman, who was later shot and killed by police, knew each other."

""They introduced themselves, and at that time he pulled out a handgun and shot Chairman Gwatney several times," Little Rock police Lt. Terry Hastings said.

The police spokesman said there were no heated words.

Gwatney, 48, died four hours after the noontime shooting. Troopers and Grant County deputies shot suspect Timothy Dale Johnson, 50, of Searcy, after a 30-mile chase south of Little Rock. Two other weapons were found in Johnson's truck, police said."

http://www.dailycamera.com/news/2008/aug/13/gunman-fatally-shoots-arkansas-democratic-party-ch/

Lewis was right to call out the McCain campaign. They are playing with fire and they may get burned more than they think they will.

I can hear the RFN's now screaming if someone walked into the office of Virginia party chairman, Del. Jeffrey M. Frederick (R-Prince William), who made the comment and killed him.

After all they are trying to start a War and right now I would guess that their very close to it.

I would also guess that there would be no place in Heaven, Hell or on this Earth they would be able to hide from the American People if anything happens to Senator Obama.

Not Martial Law, Women and Children murderous Mercenary's like Blackwater or even Local Law Enforcement would be able to protect them.

I also have to wonder why the Secret Service has not put a stop to this. Or does Racism still exist in the Secret Service like has been reported in the news not that long ago?

Makes on wonder now doesn't it?

mornin' all.

Well, it appears McCain and his acolytes are in the "liar, liar, pants on fire" club re: Obama and Ayers.

http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?docID=news-000002974214&cpage=1

Ping, it must make you proud.

I'll go back and take a look at your arguments, see where we agree and disagree (I'm sure there will be both categories.)

Dang, Pogo, did you cause this burst of enthusiasm by our fellow commenters?

Pogo,,,
Nope - makes me angry....

The McCain Campaign is not talented at the low blow and keeping the candidate clean..

The elements in your post are a distraction... Which favors Sen Obama.

Now do you want to address the points made in my posts?

The Republican Party at Work.

http://www.withoutsanctuary.org/pics_22.html

See the whole collection of Republican work at link below.

http://www.withoutsanctuary.org/pics_01.html

You can also watch it as a Flash movie at link below.

http://www.withoutsanctuary.org/movie1.html

This is where the Republican Party wants to take America.

Back to the good old days, at least that's how they saw them.

Dog, Interesting catch..... Hmmmmmm

"If this race can become about substance and core values - it can turn on a dime." Ping - 6:19. Agree it needs to become about substance, disagree it can turn on a dime. Palin has become a liability - she abused her office and let her husband abuse his position as first Dude, and McCain chose her to go out and be Sarah Barracuda and whip up the base and waited too long to reel it in and swing perceptions of him as delivering the respectful campaign on the issues that he promised.

Re: the 7:28 post - apparently the "thinking man" is the McCain supporter. Earmarks aside - and they mean very little inte context of the budget - McCain has not been the maverick in opposition to the president's budget you cast him as. How many "no" votes to Bush's budget has he cast? He's had 8 opportunities to do so.

Your comments about Obama's liberal and socialist past have some merit I guess - but the socialist charge rings hollow when you compare Palin's record as governor to Obama's as state senator. Palin defined redistribution of wealth and raised it to unheard of levels - taxing from the oil companies and giving it directly to the citizens of Alaska. Makes social programs look pedestrian by comparison. It's hard to address you comment about his socialist past though, since your comment is conclusory and wholly without reference to the basis for that conclusion. Try providing links when you try and pin labels on Obama if argument is what you're attempting. McCain probably has never been as big a supporter of funding for social programs as Obama, Biden or Palin, but the socialist meme is just RNC BS conjured up to scare shit out of political idiots who also think Obama isn't an American. As to Obama's liberal views - I agree with you there - he's a liberal, and that's fine with me considering where conservative governance has taken the economy.

Oh, and the Fed is not beholden to the will of either Congress or the President - the president's only role is to appoint the Board of Governors and the Fed Chair when the current one's term expires. If you don't like where Greenspan (and now Bernanke) took the economy by laying the groundwork for cheap credit, write him an e-mail. To the extent that the money supply is controlled by the treasury department - again, the president's responsibility - fine. The Bush admin has screwed that up.

Well it has been 10 days of traveling from London,to Moscow, from Frankfurt to Basel and everything in between... This credit crisis is killing us...and not one of the stupid asses up for election on November 3rd are making sense woth regard to this issue. because they simply do not know anything... (making an extreme angry face)

Dutch finance minitser has allready asked: WTF is wrong the Americans..

More fuel for me not to vote....

Sickness.....

Good post Patsi.

Ping, funny how you seem to think that lying about your opponent (reflects the character of the candidate doesn't it?) is a distraction. Airing a 90 second commercial - long by most standards, based on a demonstrable lie, is reprehensible conduct, and underscores my distrust of McCain as anything other than just another politician with his own agenda who'll try to do whatever it takes to get elected. I call BS.

Pogo..
Well put - Good Substance....

McCain is more conservative
Obama is more liberal

I belive both equally want Healthcare for People and food on tables.

The differene is how you get there

Palin maybe is proved no different now then all other politicians - she joins a crowded bus.

The Alaska funding is not a tax it is drilling rights for the oil that is owned by the people. And this as gone on for years - having family in Alaska I have understood that this is not totally new.
We could use some of that here in Florida

Can someone enlighten me (because I am clueless) what the difference is between BO and JmC on the financial debacle that we are in now and what is going to extend even more the coming week?

What a disaster.............

BO is getting props that he doesn´t deserve: I have to say, both JmC and Bo to me are clueless reagrding the crisis we are in now. I dont care how many rhetoric BO uses or how many threaths JmC unleashes.... They have both no clue what so ever.... (furious at the moment)

dog, I'm skeptical - the polls seem to show a shift here, but I'm not hearing it from my friends.

Bill and Hillary spent a lot of time here during the primary, and ther results showed it. I don't know whether they would swing as many voters as people seem to think - the people here love them, but they could hardly be expected to vote for the guy they voted against six months ago because the person they voted for asked them to. WV is really a big God, Guns and Guts state, and Obama doesn't play that well to this crowd. I hope I'm wrong.

Haven't talked with anyone who saw Palin - but then again, while I have conservative friends and many of the partners in this law firm are Repugs - a couple of whom are Repug movers & shakers, and big time fundraisers. I haven't even been invited to a fundraiser for McCain, not that I'd go or anything, so I think the national race is low on the priority list of Republicans here.

Pogo -
I agree that McCain has not done a good job and allowed distraction - which drove the point to far and thus confusion which Obama can hide behind.

I do not see Obama as evil, I see him as a green works in progress that is still trying to define his self. If he stays from where he came we will have significant issues and this will be dangerous.

The only proof in the Obama pudding is Liberal and wanting to drive social and political change using the Federal Government at the expense of the Fundamentals of our capitalistic society – which is why we are having a meltdown.

It is that simple

But you and the American People are distracted – and McCain is equal to the blame

Barack is About Change and has done one of the greatest jobs of redefinition in history

Flatus

Dang, Pogo, did you cause this burst of enthusiasm by our fellow commenters?

The am crowd always do-----Once again sorry about my long post to Bethy,I was going to post late last night but there were a lot of vampires around. i see that Tony did have any garlic on and the almost got him, Tony watch for the (she thinks we don't get her) sweet talking one---and by the way I also agree that her comments this am are excellent.

that is Bethy's comment's were excellent

"...not one of the stupid asses up for election on November 3rd are making sense with regard to this issue. because they simply do not know anything... "

Jason, there are so many complex interactions that it's impossible for them to understand much less make sense of the financial and economic issues that are wreaking havoc on us. The best they can do is parrot pop-solutions tossed out by their camp followers.

If I was one of the candidates, I would say, "During this crisis, we have only one president. Anything I say now has the potential of disrupting his administration's efforts to lessen the effects of the crisis."

Tell us more about your journey!

Kurgman wins the Nobel Prize for Economics

Do you think it was for this statement ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
He has come out forcefully against John McCain during the economic meltdown, saying the Republican candidate is "more frightening now than he was a few weeks ago" and earlier that the GOP has become "the party of stupid."
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/10/12/international/i082222D40.DTL&tsp=1

I'd give it to Krugman for that alone.

Jason - read above the analogy of throwing gas on the fire,

Obama buys the gas and throws on the fire, then stands back under the cover of the news media which is jumping on the BS from the McCain camp

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/obamas-slippery-landslide.html#comment-158120

"Anyone notice that Hil'ry dropped the odd "g" when she was talkin'. (chuckle)"

I know, Blue -- it makes me NUTZ that politicians think they have to do that.

Very cool on Krugman, kind of feels like one of our crowd won the prize.

Ping, the drilling rights funding is nothing more that a severance tax, and while I don't know the particulars of Alaska's mineral permitting and taxing system, generally it's a twofer that goes into either a special fund or the state's general fund - but almost never is disbursed to citizens in general in the form of checks. It is very common in mineral states like AK (& WV), and she increased it and the direct payments to Alaskans - that is what I was referring to. And the people of Alaska don't individually own the oil under Alaska except by virtue of being citizens of the state, or by holding a fee simple interest in their own land (as opposed to surface rights only). The details don't matter that much to me - you can call it a fee or a tax, but it's still the take from the rich corporations and give to the poor citizens that consdervatives like yourself call socialism and demonize.

"Paul Krugman just won the Nobel Prize for Economics!
3 cheers! 5 cheers for writing columns for us laypersons in easily understandable (and usually well argued) standard English."

Yes! Ditto what dog said....this is such good news!

Fran said :

"As fast as this thing changed 10 days ago, it is just as volitile to change back "

"This thing" changed on Sept 15 ...... That would be 28 days ago.

Thanks Dog,,,
I will buy the first beer...

Also I like being ideo-logical !! Thanks

And you are correct - I may be the running the fools errand , but I will continue to run with and will keep an open mind to someone that will take up the argument, that can find basis to the causes contra to that whch has been stated.

ABC News/WaPo
Obama + 10
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/polls/postpoll_101308.html

LANDSLIDE!

Oh, dog -- calling a candidate a clown is not the same as using gender or race based insults. As I said long ago, I despise Clarence Thomas. That doesn't give me the right to go after him with racial slurs. But I will call him a clown.

Ping, I'll grant you we have a fundamental difference in economic policy, but it's based on the perceived best balance between free markets and government regulation of the economy and on and our own views of history. Understand - I'm not an anti-corporate liberal - I work in corporate America, and am paid by corporate America to defend it from it's own actions. I agree that Obama is green, and McCain is gray (I'm talking politically, here). My fundamental difference with McCain is his pre-New Deal lust for deregulaton of the financial markets and corporate world. They have not shown that when under loose regulation - or the voluntary compliance with advisory guidelines appraoch that republicans try to give them - they will act responsibily. And yes, I understand that regulatory agencies with more rather than fewer compliance personnel equates to big government, but I prefer my water and air cleaner and less lead in my paint.

jason

mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur

see, dog, I don't think the end result of this blog thing is changing Ping's mind. That would be a fools errand. I do think that the respective layings out of our respective positions, arguing points we see as weaknesses in the other's position is how we better understand the positions of the other side, find those areas where we actually agree, and inform those who are not as ideologically bound as many of us of the respective positions - which frankly are overly simplified and demonized in the course of political campaigns. It's the process, not an outcome, that is important in the blogosphere. At least that's how I see it and why I stay interested.

Pogo - in a backwards way we are in alignment.

How Ironic - We needed Federal Regulation to protect ourselves from ourselves.

Would an ounce of Federal Regulation have stopped the Political / social policy that drove us to this crisis?

Think about it - This was clearly a social /political policy that drove the issue – Bush was complacent at best – The congress promoted it –lead by Dems.

So now we are going to ask a Dem controlled world to govern thyself?

And I am ideological?

"The congress promoted it –lead by Dems."

Really? The Republicans have controlled congress for most of the last 16 years. And when not in the majority have behaved as if they were. The Republicans are to blame all by themselves for the economic meltdown. There is no evidence that social policy had anything to do with it. Unless greed is a social policy of the Republicans.

KCG - calm down you are letting your Bush odium take you to a place that the McCain campaign is in….

Now that is the type of reaction I am used to….. Very defensive as it appears I struck a nerve.

The facts are clear – (do I need to say it again?)
And those Republicans that participated with the Dems got theirs for the most part in 2006.
Bush allowed it! Why – trade for what?

So KCG - Disprove that the gas of easy credit to non qualified buyers that was counter to sound Fundamentals that drove up housing prices and false over evaluatin of Balance sheets did not start the fire of this economic crisis !!

Really Ping..that's your charge

you prove it
Rez posted a link yesterday proving it wasn't true.

Or ideo-logical - LOL.

Ping, all politics is pushing a social agenda based on more or less direct versus indirect help to those on the fringes of the economic system. Ours is a capitalistic economic system with economic support provided by government through taxing the financial engine. Conservative economic system with liberal social systems supported by government. The problem as I see it is that finding the appropriate balace between the two components of the economy and keeping both sides flush is difficult. As it is, the big government programs that are going to be more important and more cash-strapped in the next 3 or so decades are going hurting because the funding that was envisioned to fund them has gone to other projects brought to the table by such masters of misdirection of tax money as Bob Byrd on the Dem side and Bush (I speak of Iraw here) and Ted Stevens on the Repub side. It took a bipartisan effort to f*ck it up so badly, and considering that Bush had a republican congress for the first SIX years of his presidency and five years before that, your laying the blame for the direction (or rather misdirection) of the government and economy on a democratic congress is really neither accurate nor fair.

"The man accused of shooting and killing two people in a Knoxville church Sunday wrote that he hated liberals and was bitter he couldn't find a job, police said Monday.

Authorities added he may also have been angry about possibly losing his food stamps."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-07-29-church-shooting_N.htm?csp=34

KGC,

Here'e an interesting twist.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/200/story/53802.html

Posted by: Rezdog Author Profile Page | October 12, 2008 1:58 PM

Federal Reserve Board data show that:

* More than 84 percent of the subprime mortgages in 2006 were issued by private lending institutions.

* Private firms made nearly 83 percent of the subprime loans to low- and moderate-income borrowers that year.

* Only one of the top 25 subprime lenders in 2006 was directly subject to the housing law that's being lambasted by conservative critics.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/53802.html

Pogo - I have not laid it on the Dem congress, If taken that was then please allow this correction.

I have laid it to a platform that was allowed by Bush so therefore he is part of the problem. That fat cat Republicans abandoned the party philosophy and historic platform – and thus got their less then righteous butts kicked in 2006 – which I support.

So remove the labels and party and look only at the cause – which most agree is the problem that are not overtaken by extreme elements or blinded by other issues.

We must build to not depend on the Federal Government, It is a single point of failure.

We must get away from Big Government Programs and people rely on the Government.

We must have people understand that each of us is entitled to contribute, be rewarded for our contribution and to help others - that is my Republican Party

Barring anything major, I'm giving Obama the remaining toss ups as well as the light pinks of IN and WV and now I'm starting to watch Montana.

When one believes that the earth is 6,000 years old ...... It's easy to believe that a bunch of poor people living in East St. Louis invented, and sold 60 Trillion dollars in "Credit Default Swaps".

Posted by: Anon | October 13, 2008 10:17 AM

coffee meet screen!

Fox is on a mission to blame Acorn for everything bad in America

Jamie I'm actually surprised at CQ's map. I'm still not comfortable calling Ohio a blue state. On the other hand I think Obama will easily take Florida.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/news/ap/politics/2008/Oct/12/gop_frets_about_mccain_s_strategy__prospects.html

So here's one take on why McCain isn't doing well at this point in the campaign. As for me, I think the "it's the economy, stupid" adage is applicable, and voters are not comfortable that the candidate who acknowledged that the economy wasn't his strong suit can provide the strong guidance that they think is needed. I think McCain chose the wrong issue when he tried to make the campaign about terrorism, it didn't work because the economy is what's in the news and besides, he's Bush's clone on the terrorism issue (and no one sees Bush as a good thing for the McCain campaign), so he changed the focus of his campaign to trying to demonize Obama, which is backfiring because so much of the criticism is not based on facts. Now he's trying to work the economy back in to the campaign, but it's a hard sell given his past statements. Had he stayed on the issues as he pledged and given voters a clear choice between a simplistified (word?) conservative leaning position and Obama's complex and nuanced liberal leaning one, this race might look a whole lot different today.

Pogo A+++++

McCain blew it...... to this point.

Can it change? After all the American People may have short news cycles

But some very very conservatives say let it go look at the long run....... And they gave up early,

On a real base level McCain hasn't blown it. The truth of the matter is the GOP message is not the right one for the times we are living in. People want this war in Iraq to be over, and they are clamoring for govt. involvement in both the economy and health care. Frankly what is a GOPer to do when the core of msg of your party is so very opposite the nation mood?

The focus the past week has been on all those angry McCain supporters, but there's another angry group too :

"The shift has been dramatic. A state that for years had about equal numbers of registered Republicans and Democrats now has more than 93,000 more Democrats, according to data compiled last week by the secretary of state's office.

In 2004, when President Bush carried Nevada by 20,000 votes, there were 5,000 more Republicans than Democrats registered here."

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/obamas-slippery-landslide.html

Now cable news will ask , "Yes but will all those 'new voters' show-up" ?

In droves baby in droves.

McCain did blow it by allowing a distraction.

Obama has stayed on campaign message.

The American People judge on style - as it is difficult to measure on substance

I'll give you that ping, Obama has proven to be a far superior candidate than McCain has. My point being is that McCain has been boxed into a corner from the very beginning, it's hard to be a Reaganite when the nation is now turning away from the era of Reagan.

McCain did blow it by allowing a distraction.

Obama has stayed on campaign message.

The American People judge on style - as it is difficult to measure on substance

Posted by: Ping Pong | October 13, 2008 10:36 AM

AMEN!

Post of the day Ping.

HEY THE MARKET IS GOING UP !!!!
TRILLIONS MADE ALREADY TODAY

dog,

I meant to add, the ARG WV poll looks like an outlier. The RCP average looks more like what I'm seeing, and it might be a little low wrt McCain's advantage here.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/wv/west_virginia_mccain_vs_obama-632.html

Ping, http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/obamas-slippery-landslide.html#comment-158180

See, we agree on a lot, but where we idffer is that for you it appears that the two positions are mutually exclusive, and I reject that view. I hope like hell I get Medicare and Social Security - especially Medicare - but I am not foregoing planning and saving for my retirement But I'm not among the majority of folks who can't put anything to speak of aside for retirement because they're struggling to make ends meet. I had a different path that didn't include a lot of the choices people make that lead to being in that position, and I don't fault most of them for those choices. Not everyone can be a professional or an executive, and no one can avoid the cruel hand of fate when it deals you a bad hand. I think that's what government is there to do. If it's just there to protect borders so that corporations can prosper and those who don't benefit from their prosperity can suffer, I'm not interested.

And Ping, if I misread your post I apologize.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/obamas-slippery-landslide.html#comment-158122

But the problem is not the current Congress (aside from it's complacency) - it is Congress as an institution. But Bush was not complacent - he drove the train for six years as the conductor of a Republican train that did his bidding on tracks he laid - he submitted the budgets and he signed them as they were amended. I do acknowledge your impugning of the Repubs who enabled him, but I think you have the relationship flipped.

"It happens in America every four decades and it is about to happen again. America's demand for change in the 2008 election will cause another of our country's periodic political makeovers. This realignment, like all others before it, will result from the coming of age of a new generation of young Americans-the Millennial Generation-and the full emergence of the Internet-based communications technology that this generation uses so well. Beginning in 2008, almost everything about American politics and government will transform-voting patterns, the fortunes of the two political parties, the issues that engage the nation, and our government and its public policy."

http://www.booktv.org/program.aspx?ProgramId=9504&SectionName=Politics&PlayMedia=No

http://www.amazon.com/Millennial-Makeover-MySpace-American-Politics/dp/0813543010/ref=sr_11_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1223909194&sr=11-1

"Unless you're referring to some Menendez brothers you know and we do not."

RPFL! Dog -- have you been living under a rock? That's an old, old joke -- one that has been used many times about political races. Get a grip.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/obamas-slippery-landslide.html#comment-158197

hahah - if the market gains just 3200 more points, my 401k will be where it was 5 years ago.

Jason,

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/obamas-slippery-landslide.html#comment-158196

McCain dishes it out as bad or worse than Obama ever has. Last week is a testament to distraction from the issues, and it was almost 100% McCain. You can't discount the efforts of the RNC and the support groups standing behind each candidate who drive the discussion on their behalf.

"RPFL! Dog -- have you been living under a rock? That's an old, old joke -- one that has been used many times about political races. Get a grip."

This from the woman who accuses Obama of being a sexist because he "brushes off" his shoulders.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/obamas-slippery-landslide.html#comment-158188

Ping, thanks. You know, I am pretty moderate by nature and analytical by nature and by training. I try to look at what the candidates have done, what they've said, and why they are where they are. I may want one or the other in any given race to win, and I admit that the vast majority of the time it's the Dem (although there is one race in WV where I may vote against the dem - the guy is a frickin' idiot to say nothing of the fact that he's a greedy trial attorney assh*le), but I do try and remain as clear eyed as I can.

National Debt When Jimmy Carter arrived at the White House:

$660 billion.

Added during Carter's four years: $337 billion.

Added during Ronald Reagan's eight years: $1.6 trillion.

Added during George H. W. Bush's four years: $1.6 trillion.

Added during Bill Clinton's eight years: $1.5 trillion.

Added during George W. Bush's seven years, nine months: $4.5 trillion.

Portion of the $9.5 trillion added to the national debt during the past 31 years and seven months that came during Republican presidencies: $7.7 trillion.

Percentage of that $7.7 trillion added during George W. Bush's two terms: 58%.

Could somebody explain again what "fiscal conservative" means?

by Meteor Blades
Mon Oct 13, 2008 at 06:50:13 AM PDT

Pogo, the following quote from your post exemplifies one of the reasons I like you and respect you so much. You're not judgmental.

"I had a different path that didn't include a lot of the choices people make that lead to being in that position, and I don't fault most of them for those choices. Not everyone can be a professional or an executive, and no one can avoid the cruel hand of fate when it deals you a bad hand:.
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/obamas-slippery-landslide.html#comment-158198"

Bush appearing with the prime minister of "Itly"

McCain claimed to have Obama right where he wants him.

Sorta like Wiley Coyote or Elmer Fudd.

Obama leads in ND

Barack Obama is shown with an edge against John McCain in a North Dakota presidential race that has narrowed to a statistical tie, according to a new Forum poll.

http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=218215§ion=news

I don't usually like anything Ed Rollins has to say, but this particular commentary is worth a read...

STORY HIGHLIGHTS
Rollins: An internally divided campaign can't successfully confront opponent

John McCain is following Hillary Clinton in running a divided campaign, he says
Rollins says Obama is running a disciplined and focused campaign

Rollins: McCain needs to address the economic crisis, which scares Americans

by Ed Rollins
CNN Contributor

Editor's Note: Ed Rollins, who served as political director for President Reagan, is a Republican strategist who was national chairman of former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee's 2008 presidential campaign.

Ed Rollins says internal divisions are preventing McCain's campaign from getting out a clear message.

NEW YORK (CNN) -- A campaign at war with itself cannot fight its opponent effectively.

We have seen two major campaigns this year that could be described as internally divided -- Sen. Hillary Clinton's losing primary campaign and now Sen. John McCain's general election effort.

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/11/rollins.endgame/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

illusions, thanks for the 10:31 translation of my gift of empathy to jason

for those like pogo who see both sides if not more

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqe75biE6mc&feature=related

Plus someone needs to teach the paid Obama bloger above how to post links and not be such a hog... suueeeewweeeee wyattbeck

Posted by: Ping Pong | October 13, 2008 6:15 AM

First thing I've agreed with you on in a LONG time Ping!

If this race can become about substance and core values - it can turn on a dime.

Posted by Ping Pong

Agreed... the more it is about substance and core values, Obama will gain even more electoral votes !! Thanks for making that point Ping!

16 Newspapers Endorse Obama on Sunday, 2 for McCain

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003873282

ASSOCIATIONS:
David Kearns, Terrorist Sympathizer: Kearns worked for John McCain's 2000 campaign and works current for his 2008 campaign.
Pro Bono education advisor to Annenberg Foundation who approved $49.2 million grant to William Ayers.
Chairman of the Alexandria-based New American Schools Development Corporation (NASDC)—a 1991 school reform initiative of President George H. W. Bush; former Deputy Secretary of Education (1991–1993) under Secretary of Education Lamar Alexander in the George H. W. Bush administration; former president, CEO and chairman of Xerox
----------------------------------------------------
Arnold R. Weber, Terrorist Pal: Weber has donated money to John McCain's 2008 Campaign.
Served on founding Board of Directors of the Chicago Annenberg/Ayres Challenge. President of the Civic Committee of the Commercial Club of Chicago (1995–1999); member of the board of directors of the Arie and Ida Crown Memorial and the Tribune Company; former president of Northwestern University (1985–1994) and the University of Colorado (1980–1985); professor of labor economics and friend and colleague of George P. Shultz at MIT, the University of Chicago, and in the Nixon administration
______________________________
www(dot)mccainslobbyists(dot)com
_______________________________
G. Gordon Liddy: John McCain Finds His Own Radical Criminal Ties At A Fundraiser For McCain At Liddy's House
www(dot)huffingtonpost(dot)com/2008/05/05/g-gordon-liddy-john-mccai_n_100134(dot)html

Sad so many distractions
Posted by: Ping Pong | October 13, 2008 7:52 AM

Like your using labels to attack people... "liberal" and "socialists"... they must be terrible because they believe in helping the common people.

thanks, chloe - nice to know.

What Would Jesus Do Abouut Evangelichell Palin's Terrorist Associations
______________________________
www(dot)salon(dot)com/news/feature/2008/10/10/palin_chryson
51-year-old Mark Chryson. Chairman of the Alaska Independence Party. Mr. Chryson wishes to and work for Alaska to secede from the United States. Palin backed Chryson as he successfully advanced &altered the state Constitution’s language to better facilitate the formation of anti-government militias. With sponsorship from the Islamic Republic of Iran, they were scheduled to present a case for Alaskan secession before the United Nations General Assembly in the late spring of 1993. They rub shoulders and forge alliances with outright white supremacists and far-right theocrats, particularly those who dominate the proceedings at such gatherings as the North American Secessionist conventions, which AIP delegates have attended in recent years.
Chryson/Palin rhetorically. “Yes. The War of Northern Aggression, or the Civil War, or the War Between the States — however you want to refer to it — was not about slavery, it was about states’ rights.” Palin was well aware of Chryson’s views. “She knew my beliefs,” Chryson said. “The entire state knew my beliefs. I wasn’t afraid of being on the news, on camera speaking my views.” Palin endorsed Chryson’s unsuccessful initiative to move the state Legislature from Juneau to Wasilla. At a national convention of secessionist groups in 2007, AIP vice chairman Dexter Carter announced that his party would seek to “infiltrate” the Democratic and Republican parties with candidates sympathetic to its hard-right, secessionist agenda. The AIP was born of the vision of “Old Joe” Vogler, a hard-bitten former gold miner who hated the government of the United States almost as much as he hated wolves and environmentalists. His resentment peaked during the early 1970s when the federal government began installing Alaska’s oil and gas pipeline. Fueled by raw rage — “The United States has made a colony of Alaska,” Vogler proposed using nuclear weapons to obliterate the glaciers blocking roadways to Juneau.
www(dot)huffingtonpost(dot)com/robert-f-kennedy-jr/alaskan-independence-part_b_133261(dot)html
________________________________
The Palins’ un-American activities Imagine if the Obamas had hooked up with a violently anti-American group in league with the government of Iran.
www(dot)salon(dot)com/opinion/feature/2008/10/07/palins_unamerican

I think Obama will take Ohio for many reasons but here are four:
1. The older republicans are watching their life savings going down the drain.....they will either stay home, or vote Obama.
2. Ohio does not have a polarizing issue on the ballot as in with the 2004 Gay marriage amendment....so many of those right leaning voters may not vote.
3. The Obama campaign is on the grounds Full Force going door to door, and working phone banks like crazy.
4. Registration is way up, a plus for Obama

off to walk to work ...have a great day everyone.......

Ping.... I made a simple statement..... housing prices are too high, IMO....
and you ask if I want to change the system..... toooooo funny!....

I don't understand "the system"...... I'm just a simple fiber artist working in color..... but I sometimes think I might have a bit of common sense....

seems to me that if the average house sells for more than $200,000 in this country..... and do what you suggest as going back to fundamentals and what Flatus alludes to of going back to requiring a 20% down payment in order to obtain a mortgage..... it doesn't take a financial wizard to see that a young couple both trying to pay off their college debt, pay for the price of energy and groceries and any other daily living expenses..... is going to have a very hard time to save the over $40,000 it would take to make that down payment on a house......

I also keep hearing all these experts on NPR say this is a global crisis...... one last week said to bring this down to a Democratic vs Republican debate was laughable......

common sense tells me we need real leadership in this country...... and on that account..... we are probably screwed.....

pat,

"for those like pogo who see both sides if not more"

LOL. Good to know someone realizes that in this Dem/Rep, lib/cons. political world, most issues are not just two sided.

McCain is still campaigning to his base, this speech is dreadful, all full of fight, not what America is looking for.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/obamas-slippery-landslide.html#comment-158161

Great post Dog... and BethyBoo is spot on...

And frankly, all I see being posted by Ping, who I am sure is good hearted and probably a very affable person, is ideological statements that don't really say anything...

America would be a much nicer place if it invested more in the society and less in letting the "trickle down" theory continue to piss the drips onto the middle and lower classes. JMHO... Democrat with socialist leanings and proud of it.

gop feels like the issues are so many-sided it takes two faces to see them all.........

Visuals coupled with the spoken word present a far more accurate detailed depiction of the unfolding events than say just words or pictures. I found this video very interesting, insightful, and sort of funny, depicting those who are always spouting the virtues of cohesiveness, fair mindedness, diplomacy, acceptance etc., the so-called open minded, intellectuals, progressives, doing what they do best, being true bigoted hypocrites. This has a similar feel of the Jewish merchants being paraded through Nazi Germany prior to WWII, or the Blacks marchers who dared to march for integration both in the South, and in the North. The rants and jeers, the hateful gestures of the crowd directed to those in this orderly, peaceful march is so reminiscent of the aforementioned events.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQalRPQ8stI

Does he have any other campaign style other than angry?

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/obamas-slippery-landslide.html#comment-158217

Wyatt, I got he chance to listen to a lot of Sirius Left last week while I was hauling ass up and down I-79 and I-64, and I heard one of the talkers say that the Palin-Alaska Independence party link had been largely demonstrated to be less than it was being portrayed. Does anyone have any info on that? I know Sarah recorded a keynote address for their convention, and supposedly Todd was a member of that party, but all I've heard is dribs and drabs and would like to read up on the links between the Palins and that party.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/obamas-slippery-landslide.html#comment-158166

I never understand what it is exactly that you are saying. America has never been a "free enterprise" country. It's always had a mixed economy, and welfare first and foremost for big corporations. Sounds pretty socialistic to me... so I don't get any clarity on what you are saying, except you hate social programs and "let them eat cake"...

or is it, "I got mine and the rest of you can go to hell" ??? You aren't as harsh as FryDaddy, but you're close in beliefs I think. Difference is, you probably wouldn't tell the rest to "go to hell" while Fry would do it with zest and happiness while repossessing the latest automobile who's owner has lost his/her job, home or is incapacitated and no longer able to work. I don't see you as one who would take glee in this... Otherwise, I can't really tell the difference...

sturg, RFLMFAO. Would that be the Janus party?

WyattBeck@BowWowTicker -- please don't misunderstand me, you are most welcome to post here. but i am finding your style very difficult to follow. we all have our quirks when it comes to comment style (i am lazy about capital letters, as u see here).

may i suggest more of your own thoughts about what you find significant about a particular link and less copying and pasting from that site? and providing the actual link (without spelling dot) would certainly encourage others to look at your sources

due to our battle against spam, we must limit hyperlinks to two per comment, but that seems to be enough for most people -- and you can always break it up into more than one comment

i'm only making these suggestions in order to make your comments -- and our threads -- more readable

http://www.inspirationline.com/images/janus.jpg

Code words alert

"I come from a long line of McCains'

I thought McCain was supposed to issue a plan for the economy in today's speech. Did I miss something?

Obama Born In Kenya? His Grandmother Says Yes

"Someone is lying. According to Obama's Kenyan (paternal) grandmother, as well as his half-brother and half-sister, Barack Hussein Obama was born in Kenya, not in Hawaii as the Democratic candidate for president claims. His grandmother bragged that her grandson is about to be President of the United States and is so proud because she was present DURING HIS BIRTH IN KENYA, in the delivery room. -This, according to several news sites and Pennsylvania attorney Philip J. Berg (see video below) who is, surprisingly, a life long democrat himself.

There is also a discrepancy in what hospital Barack Hussein Obama was born in, even if he was born in Hawaii. Reports by his own sister in two separate interviews state that he was born at two different hospitals-- Kapiolani Hospital and Queens Hospital--in Honolulu."

http://www.israelenews.com/view.asp?ID=3324

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/obamas-slippery-landslide.html#comment-158236

i appreciate your sentiment, pogo, but i don't see them as "bashing" the host. everyone has their point of view and when they don't agree with mine, they have every right on here to say so in whatever manner they like.

This Marist Poll reports:
Presidential Race in Pennsylvania
Race Opens Up in Pennsylvania…Obama Pulls Ahead by 9 Percentage Points Among Registered Voters…Has Double-Digit Lead Among Likely Voters:

http://www.maristpoll.marist.edu/Battleground2008/PA081013.htm

This Marist Poll reports:
Presidential Race in Ohio:
Obama Has a Narrow Lead Over McCain in the Buckeye State: The presidential race in Ohio is no longer a statistical dead heat. Among registered voters, Senator Barack Obama now outpaces Senator John McCain 48% to 40%.

http://www.maristpoll.marist.edu/Battleground2008/OH081013.HTM

actually i think the tone and civility around here is much improved. and i much appreciate it. sure makes threads more readable and interesting.

I've never bashed Craig, what's that about?

RebelliousRenee,

There is why they have what they call starter homes which start for less than $135,000. 20% down, FHA as low as 3% down and your payment will be lower than rent, but one must qualify for the loan, produce verifiable documentation showing you are employed and your after tax income minus expenses is sufficient to cover the mortgage, PITI. What kills a lot of people is the county tax. In PA, new home construction on a $200K, and your county tax can add another $500 a month onto your payment. But older homes do not have the high county taxes. My nephew was fortunate was able to get out of his new home construction. The builders told them the county tax was $800 a month, what they learned their true county tax would be over $1,000 a month, and he was building in a rural county.

Craig, Who is Pogo? Is Pogo a controlling non-democrat with a little too much power in the comment section?

The Bradley Effect – Selective Memory
By V. Lance Tarrance, Jr.

Now that polls indicate Senator Barack Obama is the favorite to win, some analysts predict a racially biased “Bradley Effect” could prevent Obama from winning a majority on November 4th. That is a pernicious canard and is unworthy of 21st century political narratives. I should know. I was there in 1982 at “ground zero” in California when I served George Deukmejian as his general election pollster and as a member of his strategy team when he defeated African-American Democratic California gubernatorial candidate Tom Bradley, not once but twice, in 1982 and again in 1986.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/10/the_bradley_effect_selective_m.html

A lot is being made about the polls and that Obama is ahead in most of them. You also need to remember Obama has lost about 50% of his lead in most of those polls. The race is tightening and will tighten ever further the closer we get to election day.

"Craig, Who is Pogo? Is Pogo a controlling non-democrat with a little too much power in the comment section?"

RFLOL. Pogo, I'm sorry, but I couldn't believe he said that.

Wyatt, you couldn't be more wrong about Pogo.

And may I ask who is WyattBeck@BowWowTicker?

don't get your hopes up Anselm, daily polls always level off and move around, look at the state polls for a true picture of what is going on.

wyattbeck -- pogo has power in the comment section? no one has power here. we are self-policing anarchists.

"My friends, we've got them just where we want them,"

Gen. G.A. Custer
June 1876
Little Big Horn , Montana Territory

POWER TO THE PEOPLE

http://www.jpgr.co.uk/r5892_a.jpg

As usual, Mr. D, your post makes no sense.

I think Mr. D just like getting your attention Patsi. :)

Today's Threadawesome offering from blistersyeahbutchannel

We contemplate erasing hate or replacing hate? By Trig Palin's Mother

A musical interlude
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xLk3E5GuQI&eurl=http://apps.facebook.com/ilike/artist/Raging+Speedhorn/track/The+Hate+Song?apv=1

Wonder if those Pennsylvanians living in the middle of PA are still clutching to their guns and religion? Memories are long for those who have been wronged.

I hope McCain hasn't forgotten those words. The Right side needs to be reminded from time to time what is said among special friends is not the same message said in public. Say it to my face Mr. Obama.

a note about the CQ electoral map in today's posting -- a particular state's rating might not jibe with the latest poll you see in the news because, unlike most electoral maps out there, CQ ratings are not limited to polls. They are based upon CQ's five decades of experience in projecting campaigns with a variety of tools not lmited to surveys, such as interviews with state experts, analysis of recent voting trends, and comparisons of candidate resources (ad spending, get-out-the-vote organization, etc.)

and pay close to attention to the difference between "leans" and "favored" -- the leaner states are tight races that are most subject to change before election day

Proof of a "Tightening Race"

Palin's visit will come a little more than a week after McCain's opponent, Democratic Sen. Barack Obama, held a rally that was attended by about 21,000 people at the State Fairgrounds. Obama's running mate, Sen. Joe Biden, was in Southern Indiana in September.

A recent Indianapolis Star/WTHR (Channel 13) poll showed Obama leading McCain 47 percent to 44 percent among likely voters in Indiana.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081012/NEWS0502/810120398

UhOh, Pogo -- looks like you've been found out! A blog cop! ROFL!

Craig what you hearing about ground game in the battleground states?

The real proof of a Landside is when they book Palin into Tulsa.

patd,

I needed that laugh : "Mundus vult depici", indeed. I first came across that as a heraldic motto in James Branch Cabell's FIGURES OF EARTH. At the time, republican r. nixon was the totalitarian dictator-wannabee, and the country was living in a horrid fantasy.

"we are self-policing anarchists."

I was wondering what we are. Thanks for clearing that up Craig. lol

"Craig what you hearing about ground game in the battleground states?"

as usual, the Democrats endlessly brag about their ground game while Republicans keep it to themselves. in past campaigns, the GOP ends up getting the most results

but the most telling difference i see in Dem ground game over 2004 is that the Obama campaign is running it themselves instead of relying on affilitaed groups such as labor unions. having the money and people to run their own GOTV should get much better results

wyatt must have caught on what "pogo" means spelled backward.... oh no, he's found another of gordo's little name mysteries answered here on tm!

"So anything anyone doesn't like, rest assured that I am the only one to blame"
craig, is that your way of saying the elk stops here? oops, bull = male elk, not buck, ~~~~but maybe it still works ~~~~

"we are self-policing anarchists".....

Craig...... HA!.... I always knew there was a good reason why I chose to put the word "rebellious" in my moniker......

Anselm..... sorry to hear about your nephew.... $1,000 a month in county taxes on a house costing less than $150,000!...... geez.... and I thought property taxes here in NH were high..... BTW..... a house going for $135,000 around here would be a shack......

regarding how parties spin their ground games -- Obama camp is quick to brag to the media with a litany of specific details such as numbers of offices and people on the ground, and what they're doing. Much harder to get that information out of the GOP. if it were me, i would shut up about the details and quit worrying about convincing the media that you're gonna kick ass, just get the job done. but Obama folk have gotten this far doing what they do, so no need to take my advice

Craig not sure it's about convincing the media, I think it's about maintaining moral among the troops. "We got game" is very seductive!

it might boost morale, but it also tips off the opposition

i guess i'm old school, i think it's politically wise to keep ground games under the radar, unless its disinformation

Old school, :)

wyatt, how can you be sure our pogo is a person?

http://www.pogo.org/index.shtml

There goes Missouri!

In Missouri, John McCain's Lead Among White Voters Has Evaporated: In an election for President of the United States in battleground Missouri today, 10/13/08, three weeks until votes are counted, Democrat Barack Obama has momentum and a meaningful advantage in SurveyUSA's latest tracking poll, conducted for KMOX radio in St Louis and KCTV-TV in Kansas City. The contest in Missouri has swung 10-points to Obama since SurveyUSA's last track point, 3 weeks ago. Then, McCain led by 2. Today, Obama leads, 51% to 43%. Among white voters, McCain had led by 11. Today, tied. There is movement among men, where McCain had led, now trails; among women, where McCain had been tied, now trails; among higher-income voters, where McCain had led, now trails; and among Independents, where McCain had led, now trails. In greater St. Louis, Obama had led by 5, now by 22. In greater Kansas City, Obama had led by 16, now by 31. George W. Bush carried Missouri by 7 points in 2004, and by 3.5 points in 2000. The state has 11 electoral votes, which are critical to any Republican who seeks the White House.

http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=114e8715-9896-484e-8403-33855cf31617

It'll be interesting to see what happens at the final debate.

" With Barack Obama holding a consistent 6-to-11 percentage-point lead in all recent national polls — the stuff of an electoral vote landslide — the 2008 campaign seems poised to enter its Harry Truman phase. That is the moment when John McCain, like virtually every losing candidate for more than half a century, invokes the ghost of “Give ‘em hell, Harry” and the fading memories of a miracle 1948 electoral upset. About the only worse omen for McCain is when Republican talking points start to include the banalities of desperation like, “The only poll that matters is the one on Election Day.”
http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2008/10/13/obama/

Well so much for you guys who were hoping that temp dip in the Gallup meant anything

PRINCETON, NJ -- Voter preferences in the presidential race continue to be generally auspicious for Barack Obama's election prospects only three weeks ahead of the eve of Election Day. Obama leads McCain by 10 percentage points, 51% to 41%, among all registered voters, according to Gallup Poll Daily tracking from Oct. 10-12.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/111112/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Ahead-51-41.aspx

People still need to show up at to vote. My concern is that strong numbers for Obama will create complacency and voters, especially first-time voters, won't bother to show up.

Craig - Maybe all of the up-talk from the Obama camp is also meant to psych out the McFailin camp & make them act in an even more erratic manner.

:Craig - Maybe all of the up-talk from the Obama camp is also meant to psych out the McFailin camp & make them act in an even more erratic manner."

Posted by: blueINdallas | October 13, 2008 1:14 PM

Or maybe the campaign is just continuing the kind of tell all rapport it's had with the media since the beginning. At least it keeps the media talking about them in a meaningful way.

In making my rounds of favorite blogs this morning, I came across this absolutely brilliant video satire.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6xJzAYYrX8

The Old Negro Space Program. It is so well done that the underlying message of a real time in history comes through even when you are laughing at the take off on some documentaries.

What Right Wingers Mean When They Call Obama A “Socialist”

Right-wing attempts to paint Barack Obama as a socialist aren’t just disingenuous. They’re rooted in a history of conservative smears against black leaders.

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=is_john_lewis_right_after_all

"tell-all" as in open, honest, un-secretive? While I agree with the possibility that "loose lips sink ships," it's not always so. I do think the best day for Team Obama to celebrate the win is after they actually have the win.

Craig, I will refrain, but I wish folks would read what you write and not substitute their own meaning for your words.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/obamas-slippery-landslide.html#comment-158219

Renee, The housing bubble pushed prices of homes way out of line with normal budgetary expenditures of 25-30% of income for housing. Many young people today are paying over that percentage in rent because there is no way they can get into a house.

If the median income is about $50,000 then a 30 year fixed loan on a home would be one costing $150,000.

Even if the couple could find a home costing that little, where would they find the minimal $15,000 down payment.

"Right-wing attempts to paint Barack Obama as a socialist aren’t just disingenuous. They’re rooted in a history of conservative smears against black leaders."

Things are going too well.
Now what, incite some more hate and fear.

You say you think the McCain campaign should should not stir things up that will cause group anger, then you make racism accusations again that will anger the Dems. Sometimes words are only what they appear to be, no more.

This might cheer us all up, by comparison?

"Zimbabwe inflation hits 231 million per cent"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/zimbabwe/3167379/Zimbabwe-inflation-hits-231-million-per-cent.html

The old saying, there's always someone worse off than you.

tt

""tell-all" as in open, honest, un-secretive?"

Yes blue. Of course.

Jamie you should read that link I posted, it's a pretty fascinating article.

Chloe whether you like it or not, racism is part of this election, how could it not be. Why do you object to any discussion about it?

You're not interested in discussing.
You're interesting in promoting turmoil.

Have a good day.

Obama is a main stream Democrat, calling him a socialist is absurd, but if you bother to read the link I posted you'll see there is a long history of the right calling politically prominent blacks socialist. And it's a charge we've heard quite a bit lately. And yes I do believe in code words.

LOL, Obama just doubled down on McCain's so called economic plan! Bravo!

"The media has failed to vet Obama. It reminds one of dictatorships. The crafted image of Obama is so hard to dissolve in the public’s mind when facts are squelched and there is a constant barrage of spin in regards to his misgivings. This has now morphed into an very frightening cult-like behavior. We have seen recent examples of this, from the singing and chanting children for Obama, the Missouri cult of army clad black youth reciting and drilling to Obama praise, to Shepard Fairey’s huge mural of Obama in Houston, all the way to the ‘messiah-look’ on the cover of Rolling Stone 3/30/08, The New Republic 1/30/08, TIME 3/10/08.

Also, the Nazi-like tactics springing up around the Obama campaign are quite disturbing. The ‘Truth Squad’ in Missouri and Pennsylvania squelches information they deem untruthful or non supportive of Obama."

http://savagepolitics.com/?p=2156

Obama gave a shout out to Solar Crete

"Unemployment benefits should not be taxed"

But Obama doesn't understand why the original bailout won't work to force the renegotiation of mortgages.

Talking about credit card debt, outstanding!

Wow, what a contrast in the two speeches, amazing.

Bicker, spin, bait, lie, deceive, cheer, dismiss, omit, pander, insult...repeat.

good interview/article in the guardian on over-valued homes impact

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/uselectionroadtrip/2008/oct/13/uselections2008-useconomy

"....Sherill and Bob were discussing whether they could avoid going bankrupt - losing their home in this sprawling city of 300,000 east of Los Angeles, and with it, everything they had worked for all their lives.

A closer look at their neighborhood reveals that they are not alone: Up and down the block, there are "For Sale" signs on the houses, and some neighbours have already had to move out. The residue of the crisis can be seen in the increased presence of stray dogs and cats, family pets left behind."

"Craig, I will refrain, but I wish folks would read what you write and not substitute their own meaning for your words.-- Posted by: pogo"

ah, now pogo, i didn't mean to put a chilling effect on you. i welcome debate about what i write -- always happy for an assist on defense as well. tks

Comparing Obama to Herbert Hoover is just amazingly stupid, someone should tell Gramps to knock it off.

"Even if the couple could find a home costing that little, where would they find the minimal $15,000 down payment."

Jamie..... isn't that essentially what I said......

BTW..... before Rick and I bought our land in 1978 and built our home, we went through the whole looking at numerous properties with numerous realtors and talking with numerous bankers...... at the time.... we would have had to make a 20% down payment.... not 10%....

I forget who said a male elk is a bull....... elk are in the deer family..... a male deer is called a buck....

: RebelliousRenee,

Sorry Renee if I didn't make myself clear. My nephews county taxes would be over $1,000, but his house was valued at a tad over $400K. On a $135,000 home, new construction, the taxes would be in the $300 plus range. Prices of homes and what you can purchase them differ widely. You know what $135,000 buys in San Fransisco? Nothing. But in some Southern states you can get a new 1500 sq ft. 3 br 2 bath home for $135,000. In FL you can do real good, because of the glut of new homes and condos. Location, location, location.

I forget who said a male elk is a bull.......

LOL, you can bet it wasn't Sarah Palin.

Just had lunch will all of my employees. The company is doing well. I just didn't have the heart to tell them that 2 of 5will be gone by January when Obama wins.

Craig I think the following article goes a long way in speaking to the ground game issue:

Obama Camp's Travel Seems a Factor In Recent Leads in Battleground States

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122383794476626615.html#printMode

"Unemployment benefits should not be taxed"

If one was to work for $10 an hour, for 40 hours that would be $400. Taxes would be taken out of their salary. I don't have the most up to date figures on this but the maximum unemployment one can draw is over $400 per week. So if you didn't tax the person receiving unemployment that doesn't seem fair. It would take a person making $14.50 an hour to break even with a person collecting untaxed unemployment. What am I missing?

Jax you got two employees going to work for the Obama administration? cool.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/obamas-slippery-landslide.html#comment-158303

Why? Are you trying to get even with any that might vote for him?

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/obamas-slippery-landslide.html#comment-158305

The Maximum you can collect may be $400, but that would apply to high salaried earners. The guy making $400 would only receive about 2/3 of that. If you tax that as well, you would be asking him to live on half of his working income.

Well, I wouldn't want to be accused of being the blog cop - or an organization rather than a person... oh, wait, I already was. But really ... gotta go to a soccer game.

Obama wants to lose if he continues on this tact.

http://www.breitbart.tv/html/195153.html

I feel so bad about having to do this but I just can't risk everything we have built. I can see what's coming and small businesses like mine have to pull back to survive. It's going to be painful for them but my family has to come first. I can survive for several years without too much pain while I wait it out.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/floridas-gop-gov-soft-on-mccai.html#comment-157930

Pogo,

I posted this for you. Curious of your take.

I'll repost manana

People like you Jax make me glad I'm self employed. So in other words if your candidate doesn't win you're going to punish two of your employees and fire them. Nice guy.

Anselm,

Hopefully FNF isn't the sole source of voter's info about Obama's tax plans. ??

TOLEDO, Ohio - Democratic Barack Obama on Monday called for more immediate steps to heal the nation's ailing economy, proposing a 90-day moratorium on home foreclosures at some banks and a two-year tax break for businesses that create new jobs.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081013/ap_on_el_pr/obama

regarding these comments questioning who pogo is -- pogo is a longtime regular here who has been clear about who he is, but i'll leave it to pogo to say more if needed

rebelliousrenee, i must confess, it was i who called a male elk a bull.
so do the nat'l geographic folks at

http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/animals/mammals/elk.html

perhaps you are thinking of those dear bpoe elk

bozos? I'm just going by what you said Jax, you said if Obama gets elected you're giving two of your employees the heave ho. I find that odd, since Obama is one talking about opening credit lines and tax breaks for small business. I understand you're giving the knee jerk response that when the Dems come to power it's bad for economy. Lots of people believe in myths. But history shows that when the Dems are in power the economy does better and more people have jobs. Those are just the facts.

Happy days are here again, the skies above are clear again....

This just in...

http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/family/10/13/hm.dads.postpartum.depression/index.html

...so it may be an equal opportunity condition after all?

KGC,

Glad to see you caught the McClatchy link. It sure sheds a different light on the subject. I particularly picked up a lot from the last 1/3 of the article.

I said when Obama wins. There is no way we can susatin his tax increase on small business. You seem fairly intelligent. Do the numbers. A $3000 tax credit versus in my case a $70000 per employee tax increase. Tell me how that makes any sense?

ivy,
would joining one's wife in a political campaign be an obscure manifestation of that syndrome?

I don't see where you are coming up with that $70,000 figure, but speaking of cash, I have go out and get something.

Hey Anon,

Thx for the chuckle; McCain-Custer comparison.

Patsi,

If you're still around, with regards to this post...http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/obamas-slippery-landslide.html#comment-158117

I think his assessment is pretty accurate. I encountered a lot of account reps for mortgage lenders who knew they would be making bad loans based on the ridiculous guidelines they were underwriting too. However, they felt that if property values were going to experience double digit growth, there would be enough equity within the next year to allow someone else to come along and erase their mistake from the books.

I can tell you in the years I've done mortgage lending, of my clients who qualified, those who were on the lower end of the income scale had much better credit scores than the people on the opposite end. I've noticed that the more people make, the more they spend and run up credit cards. There is something to be said for living within your means or for not missing what you haven't got.

jamie,

But you are penalizing the person who is working, and rewarding the person who isn't working, and your wrong on your figures. One doesn't have earn a lot to draw the maximum unemployment.. In PA you could make @$43,500 and collect @$400 per week in unemployment. That is equivalent to a person making 20.09 an hour. This is a Boeing factory workers salary.

patd
you were correct on the "bull elk". National geographic or any hunter will tell you....I can see however that a well read ....little experience..... conservationist might get that wrong...

Rezdog

It matters little who is making Obama's words public, the fact is this is the Obama plan. Redistribution of wealth. This guy asking the questions wasn't a big CEO of some major corporation, this guy is a plumber.

Well Gordo, thanks for posting this.

The authors have done a magnificent cheap shot.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/obamas-slippery-landslide.html#comment-158292

patd....

ahhhh..... then I stand corrected.....

"they" must put elk in the same category as the moose..... which is also in the deer family but the male is referred to as a bull.....

hey I learned something new today...... thanks!

Bear, are properties with assumable mortgages still out there? What would a typical deal look like on a property in the $200k range?

The only proof in the Obama pudding is Liberal and wanting to drive social and political change using the Federal Government at the expense of the Fundamentals of our capitalistic society – which is why we are having a meltdown.

It is that simple

But you and the American People are distracted – and McCain is equal to the blame

Barack is About Change and has done one of the greatest jobs of redefinition in history
Posted by: Ping Pong | October 13, 2008 9:10 AM

Ping, you seem totally consumed with that old senile goat Ronald Reagan and his demonization of "liberals". I remember watching a documentary on John F. Kennedy's campaign and people were standing with political signs that read "VOTE LIBERAL". It was never considered shameful to be a liberal until Reagan did his vicious attacks on them and totally co-opted the word to mean something almost non-American.

I find it unbelievable that you would play along with such a slanderous take on at least 1/2 of the population (or more if you include those who don't even care to vote) who share the common values of working with government, industry and unions to make a better country for everyone.

I don't want to use the phrase "political brainwashing"... but the people who scream "liberal" against anything they don't like seem to be under some sort of mind programming. Of course we could say the same of any of us who scream "conservative" if we don't agree, but then "conservative" has not been damned in the way "liberal" has, and the whole situation is sad.

Oh yeah, and Ping, there you go again...

"FUNDAMENTALS of sound fiscal policy"...

I have repeatedly asked for specifics of YOUR definition of "FUNDAMENTALS of sound fiscal policy" and you have never replied (or if you did I missed it).

Care to share?

I've had my entire retirement in cash since last November. Does anyone see either future candidate or congress screw up the market any worse than it already is? These money markets are paying nothing.

Obama to run ads offering constructive criticism of McCain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPTB7-ecDC8&feature=user

Yes, it's The Onion. LOL

"Redistribution of wealth."

That is not his plan. That is the plan as you see it and as FNF wants to portray it.

Jaxtrader,

I guess that all depends if we are talking about a free Capitalistic market or a controlled Socialist market.

Flatus,

The only loans that I have know to be assumable are either VA or FHA and I have only seen a couple. Since the buyer trying to assume the loan needs to also credit qualify, it's not the easiest to work right now because the buyer needs to balance the favorable loan terms (existing mortgage with better than current market rate) with the out of pocket funds to bridge gap between sale price and current mortgage balance).

If you are cash starved, there is little incentive to assume a mortgage because the savings in the payment isn't a good trade off if it means an extra few thousand to be paid at closing.

We must build to not depend on the Federal Government, It is a single point of failure.

We must get away from Big Government Programs and people rely on the Government.

posted by Ping

I totally disagree. The Federal Government is by and for the people. We must be able to depend on it.

We must use government and programs to help those who need help. There is no shame in government working to help the people. It's a shame when government is stymied and demonized for doing work to help people.

The American People judge on style - as it is difficult to measure on substance

Posted by: Ping Pong | October 13, 2008 10:36 AM

Which explains the elections of Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush particularly. Neither man had any substance, in campaigning or in governing. Pity.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/obamas-slippery-landslide.html#comment-158310

That has got to be one of the most ridiculous statements I've read... Unless you are part of the Fortune 500, you are not going to be affected in the way you describe... at least as I understand it. If you are part of the super rich that has been enjoying the party, but not paying for it, it will, hopefully, be time for those who benefit the most should pay more in the coffers. That is just common sense!

My thoughts exactly....sit in cash and do nothing....no wonder the markets are so screwed up. Anyone with the means to prop things up is going to sit it out. I know I'm in that boat.

Afternoon all... very civil threads lately.. and fun to read

We're preparing for our election tomorrow... alas, it looks like a minority government again..

I've always been suspicious of the stock market. Nothing is worth anything until you sell it, and it's all seemed a huge gamble to me.

Craig? Have you heard anything about propositions being added to election ballots? Last election the gay marriage issue brought out HUGE numbers for Goopers. Just wondering if there's been something going on under the radar that would make voters turn out?

I really hope that the youthful excitement about Obama turns into actual votes. My kids' generation could use a little idealism.

matters little who is making Obama's words public, the fact is this is the Obama plan. Redistribution of wealth. This guy asking the questions wasn't a big CEO of some major corporation, this guy is a plumber.

Posted by: Anselm | October 13, 2008 3:32 PM

Well it's about fricken time that there be a new direction in the redistribution of wealth. Under Reagan, Daddy Bush and the idiot now in the white house, there has been the largest redistribution of wealth since the 1930s, except it has gone from the lower and middle classes to the super rich. Why when the pigs squealing in extra dough get even fatter financially, do the right wing not call THAT "redistribution of wealth"??? What a strange world we live in.

Rezdog,

OK then you tell me what did the plumber ask, and what was Obama answer. The answer is very clear

The plumber "Your new plan is going to tax me more."

Obama : "I don't to punish your success, I just want to make sure that everyone that is behind you that they have a chance at success too. I think when we spread the wealth around it is good for everybody.

Euro,
Off the top of your head, what do you think the average american taxpayer pays in Federal taxes?
I'm curious...

Jaxtrader

Here is some food for thought ref your question.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122385651698727257.html

DOW has closed up today over 936 points.

Well compared to what I pay it would be very little. When I lived in the states, I paid my taxes like everyone else, though I always used the 1040 EZ form. Here I pay nearly 50% of my income to taxes, but we have a strong social sector and health care system and people are not losing their homes or incomes if a illness or some other unforeseen disaster hits. But apparently the richest land in the world is content with keeping the top 1% owning and controlling 90% of all the country's monetary supply.

BTW, Chatting in this blog, I feel like I am arguing with my Repug Dad right now. I am CONVINCED the stork dropped me on the wrong doorstep... !!!

Thanks, Bear, for the detailed explanation. I see lots of for sale signs on properties that look as if they may be owned by transferring military people who are highly motivated to get out of the property.

Just seemed to me that it might be a way for a working couple to get a home at a reasonable initial cost as the existing owner would most likely have minimal equity.

Well it is past my bedtime. I have to be at work in 7 hours. I thank everyone for the opportunity to chat, vent and share. Hope you all are doing ok.

Tom

Euro,
Here's why I ask. I took a chance a few years ago and risked everything. I worked hard played by the rules and have been succesfull. By my calculations I pay taxes for 20 individuals who pay nothing (30% - 35% in the US pay no taxes) I also employ 5 individuals who support their families with this income and pay their taxes. This isn't a trick question but a very simple one. How many more people do I need to carry before it's considered fair.?

The American people and their irreconcilable differences

"But in the United States, especially in the present election, we get glimpses of two political solitudes that have been created not by any plausible socio-economic division within society, nor by any deep division between different ethnic tribes, but tautologically by the notion of "two solitudes" itself. The nation is divided, roughly half-and-half, between people who instinctively resent the Nanny State, and those who instinctively long for its ministrations. And every kind of specious racial, economic, cultural and class division has been thrown into the mix to add to its toxicity."

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/opinion/story.html?id=d7199185-a2cb-4e4c-9817-ab92cd3215fa

Jaxtrader---said this bunch of bullshit

I feel so bad about having to do this but I just can't risk everything we have built. I can see what's coming and small businesses like mine have to pull back to survive. It's going to be painful for them but my family has to come first. I can survive for several years without too much pain while I wait it out.

This type of thinking got us to this mess in the first place.

I have employees that have become part of my family, i probably spend more time with them(10-14 hrs per day) than my own family, we will all suffer equally this winter, and until we fix the mess you repugs have done,

Howard Stern Conducts an Experiment with Some, Um, “Low-Information” Obama Voters

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/10/13/howard-stern-conducts-an-experiment-with-some-um-low-information-obama-voters/

I guess you haven't readeverything. We're screwed either way. i just laugh that you think one party caused it or that one has the answers

the average american taxpayer pays in Federal taxes?

Oh and don't forget, state, city, county, sales, gas, hotel, etc, and don't forget the money the government makes on what they with hold from you. If you counted up all the taxes you have to pay, a family making $100,000 would be very fortunate to have a working capital of $50,000 when all is said and done, so they could pay the mortgage, buy food, clothes, put away some savings, repairs for the home and car, college for the kids, take a vacation. And with that I have to bid you a good night.

"I just want to make sure that everyone that is behind you that they have a chance at success too." -Obama

Anselm

So, that's retribution of wealth? Wrong. Spreading the wealth around is not a tax plan for retribution of wealth.

Tax plans are complicated and don't stand up very well for sound bites. There are marginal vs statutory rates, income vs payroll rates and non paying and paying filers.

That why campaigns try to simplify their message and their opponents use their simplified message out of context.

You comments, as are FNF, good for your purposes but don't come into a blog that discusses campaign platforms and use sound bites for your material.

Anselm

It's egregious, that as an employer i have to pay the government in order for my employees to get taxes on the money that is paid by me, i also treat my self as an employee, so i pay tax on the money that i gave to the gov in the first place------than you Ronald fuckin Reagan, and bush 41 that made it permanent.

KGC

Thanks for the shout out about O's Shout out, your great, keep it up

Solar,
I couldn't agree with you more but I think you're deluded if you think the dems are going to any different.
As business owners our best bet is to try and create gridlock in Washington so that nothing effectively passes. I shudder to think what it will be like if we give either party a clear majority....one thing is for certain....
producers of wealth....business owners are screwed

No Solar 2

Both the R's and D's are to blame, it's just that i don't remember the D's getting rich over the S & L trillions , and now with this mess how are the Bushes and their cronies going to fare, because if you ask me they knew this shit was happening and were part of it, even if was by blatant omishon.

Jaxttrader: "(30% - 35% in the US pay no taxes)"

That's deceptive because these employers have payroll taxes (Fed W/H ) on their income.

typo- employees

In the end we're about to get what we deserve. How can we expect any of the candidates to fix this mess. Not one of them has ever had to meet a payroll, carry the float, hope for a quick bank tranfers, collect a receivable. No .....instead we want politicans or attorneys and guess what....they want their 40% up front....

Rez...
I didn't include payroll in my calcs...that at least is fair as its the same percentage for everyone.....we're all supposed to see that again someday anyway(social security).......i hope.....:)

Nothing like taking political advice from a pill popping, alcoholic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S81brjpteDk

Jaxtrader------thanks thats a little more reasonable, but what % of the country do think caused this for the whole country to suffer so?,yes they both are to blame-------and for you info i am not on one side or the other, never voted for potus.

I wasn't referring to your calc, but your phrasing about employees in the US that pay taxes on their wages and people refer to them ones who don't pay income taxes.

Solar,
It really doesn't matter who caused it. Everyone likes to point at presidents but they rarely come up policies that are really their own. I believe...unfortunately congress is where most of the blame lies. People just don't pay attention to congress and when something goes bad it's hard to blame 100 nameless senators and 400+ nameless congressman. And who can stomach watching those boring cspan congressional
hearings....

Jaxtrader

If we could eliminate the IRS, that would help the small business
owners, the agents work on a commission bases (bonuses) im a target----end it , get a fair national sales tax, but consider the needs of the poor, and almost poor?

I blame Shrub and the Iraq war and all the money wasted and literally lost. At least the war in Iraq will be over.

Rez,
We have been told that payroll taxes go to our individual accounts at social security and aren't used to run the country. I'm only using actual federal income taxes that are used to run the country. That's the money that everyone is either raising or lowering with each new administration

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/obamas-slippery-landslide.html#comment-158327

$400 per week is $20,800 gross. As I said, half of what that person was making at 43,500 a year.

On top of that most unemployment runs out at six months and if someone goes to work just to have a job but takes a major cut in salary say down to $25-30,000, it doesn't show up on unemployment figures, but is a major reduction in family purchasing power.

Solar,
I wouldn't have a problem if it was a national sales tax or even a fixed % income tax with a high minimum.I don't mind supporting those less fortunate. I just want to know how many people I have to carry and I don't want it open ended.

Jaxtrader,

I'm sure there are thousands of individuals earning medium six-digit incomes, but through shelters, loopholes and exotic deductions, pay less income taxes than average Joe plumber.
That's the change in tax policy i want to see happen. Corporations too.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/obamas-slippery-landslide.html#comment-158359

One of the problems caused by outsourcing jobs and sending raw materials out of the country is that the "redistribution of wealth" constricts. You lose the "value added". In a healthy economy dollars change hands six to ten times.

We can ship old growth logs to Japan or we could send them

To the Mill to be sawn
To the Lumber Contractor
To the construction contractor
To the Furniture Manufacturer
To the wholesaler
To the retailer
To the Consumer.

Jobs are created all along that chain (the redistribution of wealth), but it's cheaper to just clear cut a mountain and send the log somewhere else. That it destroys our environment and our economy probably isn't worth mentioning.

Rez,
I can tell you from experience that most of those loopholes require 500k plus to even try. There's quite a few between 200 and 500 that get caught with no real loopholes. They also tend to be small business
owners.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/obamas-slippery-landslide.html#comment-158374

Jax, That isn't true. You do not have an individual account somewhere with your name on it. You have a number in a computer with nice numbers beside your name reflecting what you and your employer have contributed.

The money comes in. Currently SS retirees receive their check. The rest of the money is exchanged for IOU notes from the US treasury and helps cover the deficit. Ponzi schedme extraordinaire.

If the money had been treated the way you say, there would be a massive surplus in SS. As it is, the system will break sometime in the next 25-50 years when the money coming in can no longer cover the retireees expecting checks, much less government deficits.

Having Bush Baby add $2 billion a month in borrowed money plus interest to the deficit to pay for his favorite war hasn't helped either. That money has been off budget as well which means that the deficit clock has a small $30-40 billion plus error in its numbers.

$30 - 40 TRILLION error in its numbers.

All those zeroes confuse me.

I know it's not true.....laughs... I'm glad someone on this blog sees it. When this finally sees the light of day it will blow the current crisis out of the water....we're about to give a party a clear majority....let's see what they do about it.....what's your guess?

"All those zeroes confuse me."

holy crap, batgirl!...... me too...... :0)

Board Room meeting:-------------Now

I was in Advertising for a while and saw a commercial that was on last year or the year before.

This how i see the Republicans--------in this board meeting(commercial) there are about 10 executives sitting around a big desk that is completely cluttered with papers, folders, etc 100% covered, they are meeting to discuss how to cut down on expenses, by the looks of them they won't get too much of a bonus if they dont, suddenly one of them says Hey what about all this stuff, what stuff?, all of this stuff and then points to all the papers etc that covers the desk,( this is the Democrats policy's,) if they can just get rid of them they could make out very well and but that extra car, they forget that some are absolutely needed.or don't care about how to keep things going in order for them to live in the future,they want it all now.

The D's don't want to admit that all programs are not needed, and that some just create lethargy, and a what have you done for me lately type of attitude.

The Indies, are the f----n desk(sorry about all my swearing today) and the tables that they are sitting on, they don't care about us at all, they are just concerned about who's on top, but with these 2 poor candidates running for potus, the # of indies, will increase from both the R's and D's

Jamie,
You have to see the absolute lunacy of it...A governement that has allowed $30 -$40 trillion in obligations to piss away by keeping it off the books is going to regulate a wallstreet which they say needs better regulation.....be very afraid...

Jaxtrader,

You obviously have more knowledge on taxation than I do, especially on small biz. I think small biz owners just need to sit down and figure exactly who's tax plan offers their specific situation the best deal and then vote it, if that's the bottom line.

It just rubs me wrong for folks who work hard and pay payroll taxes, not FICA or SUTA, to be categorized as nonpayers of Income Tax.

Rez,
I didn't mean to imply that the government isn't taking from you too. They get you in so many ways. I just know that I could have and would have hired 4+ new
employees for the taxes that I paid. These are full time
full benefit. I don't think the governement will spend it better than I could have.

Jax

Some combination of raising the top contribution level and steadily increasing the full retirement age to 75.

People could retire earlier, but would not receive full benefits. Let's face it, some people are old at 60 and others are perking along working in their 80s.

It might be a good to encourage some form of 401K or other retirement fund for everyone. People have to get into the habit of saving again. I would like to see people not taxed on any portion of their salary that goes to retirement/disability

I think where we may have disagreement is that any society that does not have a healthy middle class is doomed to destruction. The US borrowed that idea from the British when we separated.

Any time this country gets too top heavy on the upper end, it gets injured. We are at our most successful and healthy when the economy is a nice pear shape. With the majority of the income clustered around a nice chubby middle.

Right now virtually all of the wealth is in the top 1% who control 90% of the wealth but pay only 40% of the taxes, and we are starting to look like a very bottom heavy, over ripe, sickly fig.

JT,
Well, neither candidate is eliminating taxes, they each just have a proposal for restructuring them. So a business owner gotta do what in their best interest.

btw, Uncle Sam's been in our (wife's and mine) pocket for a long time and it has nothing to do with taxes.

More bad news...

http://www.woodtv.com/global/story.asp?s=9170744

Jamie-------thank you for your added input about the unemployed

KGC---yes,,,,,,,the war, and they want to keep it going I don't get, now they say they we can't get out cause it will drive up the civilian deaths, won't staying there do the same in the long run, wish someone could come up with figures, and the faster we get out the sooner we can get our house in order here?

Jamie,
Your numbers just bear out my argument. 1% pay 40%. What happens when 1% pay 50. or 1% pay 60.
What happens when 1% pay it all. Is that fair....what do you think is fair. I personally would never allow someone to carry an obligation that is minet. I want to pay my share. But there are many who don't mind someone else carrying their weight. ......What happens when the 1% say they are done.....What happens if they just say we're going to sit this out for awhile....
We're not that far away....

So did I just hear right on Hardball? McCain is planning on discussing capitol gains taxes tomorrow? That should win him a lot of support among the Wal Mart shopper.

Solarcrete
I'm glad to see you remember the Great S&L Robbery. People don't realize we were still paying on that when Bill left office. No one was permanitly charged about that, and now once again, the people are gonna have to pay for the actions of a few greedy S.O.Bs. As one reporter pointed out, without regulations, the banks start looking are people as prey instead of customers. We NEED some Government oversight, ' cos the otherwise, some of the larger Corps. will just use us up and then throw us away like a used tube of toothpaste. What do they care when their CEO's are living large in another country spending OUR money?

Jax,

You forgot to include the part about have 90% of the wealth but paying only 40% of the taxes.

Coming out of WWII those in the highest percentile paid 90% in taxes. When JFK came in, he dropped it down to 60%. Our society was truly healthy

One area where we might find agreement, is that I think all social programs should be tied to performance in some way. Drug addicts have to be in monitored rehab programs, drop outs need to be in school or apprenticeship programs, those on welfare in parenting classes and out job hunting, even those on disability in some form of rehabilitation program if possible.

The problem with the above is all too often there is no support system in place to make the above possible ie. child care, transportation, community centers, job training programs etc.

You can't do a half assed job at making demands on the impoverished without giving them the means to perform. You can't undercut human dignity by making it impossible for them to do their part of the equation.

You don't want to get me started on my overpopulation rant that says no child deductions after the first two unless they are adopted or foster children. Let's clear out some of those kids being brutalized by the system and put them into real families.

" think his assessment is pretty accurate. I encountered a lot of account reps for mortgage lenders who knew they would be making bad loans based on the ridiculous guidelines they were underwriting too. However, they felt that if property values were going to experience double digit growth, there would be enough equity within the next year to allow someone else to come along and erase their mistake from the books."

Thanks, Bear. I thought that was along the lines he was getting at -- plus that in effect, blaming just the loans and not the motives put it all on the backs of the buyer.

When I bought this house they tried and tried to get me to buy a much more expensive place, and sign up for a balloon loan. Kept saying I could turn it over in two years and make a pile of money.

I kept saying I wouldn;' have the energy to move again in two years, plus I was a friggin' freelance writer! What kind of a fool would push me to buy an expensive house? So I bought the smaller brick home built in 1960-something, instead of some huge place I couldn't clean on my best day! And I know what my monthly payment will be.

Over ripe figs yuck
but perfectly ripe figs --wonderful even with their big bottoms
http://seasonalpantry.blogspot.com/2008/10/figs-blue-cheese-and-fig-pizza.html

Patsi,

One piece of advice I got when very young was to buy a house you can afford knowing you might have to stay in it for the rest of your life. If things go really, really well you might be able to get more, but if they go bad, you still will have a roof over your head.

The depression/GI generation passed along the good advice from their hardships. Unfortunately, the message got lost somewhere in the next generation.

Rosiethecat

Then when you add the Haliburton, this bail out, etc I just don't unerstand the defense of it all by the R's? all this talk of lowering taxes(R's),we need money for special programs(D's) is crazy to me, I see it just like-----my religion, against your religion, the taxes and other bs is the same bible that each uses against the other, with each (base ) following along no matter right or wrong.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/obamas-slippery-landslide.html#comment-158399

It's okay. I meant to say diamond shape for a healthy economy and pears/figs for sick ones with wealth at the narrow end and degrees of poverty at the bottom.

CQ needs to come up with a way for me to draw doodles.

It just depends on if you're religion is the fear-based fire and brimstone type, or the unrealistically optimistic based love thy brother as you would love yourself type. Take your pick. Unless a Third Party(!) rears its head.

Latest 538 projection plus discussion and links to info on "The Bradley Effect" that seems to have disappeared ... did it ever really exist?

People forget that there was a hot button issue on the ballot that drove conservative voters to the polls and that this was not taken into consideration in the pollsters questions about the Bradley election.

Good advice, Jamie. I can't imagine why single people or even couples would want a huge house to keep up. I'd understand it if you had a bunch of kids and were younger....but otherwise....

I love pears too...I'll be selling them at the KCracker Fruit Stand and Casino

Jamie

Right now the economy is like a big sunflower --top heavy, seedy, drying up and strong but slender stem.

Oops Not my day. Forgot the 538 link

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/

KGC, I'm assuming there will be a little home made wine on the shelves behind the stand for your regular customers?

I have too much house but faced with moving ... I just close some more doors.

Another excellent article on the Bradley effect.

The Bradley Effect - Selective Memory
"The Deukmejian campaign tracking polls did not confirm any Bradley Effect and to interject this type of speculation into the 2008 presidential election is not only folly, but insulting to the political maturity of our nation's voters. To allow this theory to continue to persist anymore than 25 years is to damage our democracy, no matter who wins."
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/10/the_bradley_effect_selective_m.html

Jamie

Funny you should mention that...
As I was strolling about the neighborhood one of my neighbors invited me in for a taste of a fortified wine she is making. It was wonderful. I'm sure she would be happy to sell at the KCracker Fruit Stand and Casino.

Did you see the Michael Pollan "Open Letter to the Next Farmer in Chief" ? It was a great piece and talked about the needs to change our food systems.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/12/magazine/12policy-t.html

One of the biggest problems for a small food producer are the costs of being legal and insured. I'm not sure how all of the obstacles will be overcome but I think it is worth the effort to look for ways.

Rosiethecaat

Religion is very confusing,,,,anyone's,Im very spiritual, but this is as close that I come that I would i would like for all religions to teach.

This is it----and i am it-----and you are it----and so is that----and he is it------and she is it----and it is it----and that is that.

I do like some of the Vedanta Philosophy.

He’s baaaaaaaaaaaack!

http://hillbuzz.wordpress.com/2008/10/13/hes-baaaaaaaaaaaack/

Jamie I'm not a great believer in the Bradly effect, but I do feel if Obama was white his poll numbers would be higher. There is some speculation that some people who say they aren't going to vote for Obama will do so in the privacy of the booth, it's going to be an interesting night.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/obamas-slippery-landslide.html#comment-158411

KGS, Several people with smaller amounts of acreage have actually started supplying restaurants within a few hours drive with "organic or exotic" produce. Worth looking into as a side business.

If anyone could tell me what McCain has to offer our country - I would really like to know. Even though I am a solid Obama supporter, I have not seen any "selling points" per say, for McCain.

The only McCain supporter I know, is my mother who is 82 and doesn't remember what happened last week.... but she certainly remembers WWII.....

I am not being snarky, snippish, or whatever, I just want to know......and btw Pro- life won't work for me because you can't be both "pro-life" and "pro-war "at the same time.

Jamie

Sonoma County may not be Napa but we didn't fall off the turnip truck last night :)))))

We have a group promoting the farm -restaurant connection
http://www.forkandshovel.com/home

Based on the Pollan food manifesto, Sonoma is very evolved at least in concern about food programs. ~~~~

We do have a great school gardens program and school salad bar program. The state of Cal recognizes the importance of gardening and nutrition education by supporting extra staff. We love our farmers and support small producers. We are all farmers now!

Oh good Richard Lewis is going to be on KO tonight (it's a NY Jewish neurotic thing)

"I have too much house but faced with moving ..."

Absolutely. Moving is next to waterboarding.

A little political humor.

Little Johnny & The Candidate

A Presidential candidate was visiting a primary school and he visited one
of the classes. They were in the middle of a discussion related to words
and their meanings. The teacher asked the presidential candidate if he
would like to lead the discussion on the word 'tragedy.' So our
illustrious presidential candidate asked the class for an example of a
'tragedy.'

One little boy stood up and offered: 'If my best friend, who lives on a
farm, is playing in the field and a tractor runs over him and kills him,
that would be a tragedy.'

'No,' said the candidate, 'that would be an accident.'

A little girl raised her hand: 'If a school bus carrying 50 children
drove over a cliff, killing everyone inside, that would be a tragedy.'

'I'm afraid not,' explained the candidate. 'That's what we would call
great loss.'

The room went silent. No other children volunteered. The candidate
searched the room. 'Isn't there someone here who can give me an example
of a tragedy?'

Finally at the back of the room, Little Johnny raised his hand. In a
quiet voice he said: 'If the plane carrying you and your wife was struck
by a 'friendly fire' missile and blown to smithereens that would be a
tragedy.'

'Fantastic!' exclaimed the candidate. 'That's right. And can you tell me
why that would be tragedy?'

'Well,' says Little Johnny, 'It has to be a tragedy, because it certainly
wouldn't be a great loss... and it probably wouldn't be an accident
either.'

Feel free to substitute the name of your favorite/most hated candidate.
Jack

"we are self-policing anarchists."

Craig, that explains why I like it here.

tt

wow ......that was weird

Memo to Sarah Palin:

The Constitution gives me the right to free speech and protest, not the soldiers in Iraq. You dolt.

Wow Jack - what else have you been working on?

It's a Jewish New York think Jamie, it's like a dog whistle, specially tuned to a certain type of ear.

Jamie,
Sometimes KO is right on, it's not 100% , but every once in awhile he hits it out of th park. I think it depends on your own mood when you are watching.
Sometimes funny - sometimes not.

Lewis is three years younger than I am and he's starting to look like the crypt keeper. Depression can't be good for you.

Yeah,
Jamie I agree. I get it now. : )

Unlikely,
The only thing that McCain offers for me is a split government. No good can come from one party contolling both houses and the presidency. Both parties have proven that they can't be trusted. Giving one too much power is suicide

God damn Rachel is giddy tonight, I fully concur!

Jax sorry to be the one to tell you this (ok that's a lie, I'm thrilled to tell you this) Obama is going to have a significant majority in both chambers on the Hill.

YEE HAW

Thank Jax....for your response......may I ask you if you feel comfortable with Sarah Palin as president?

Barbara Boxer is 68 years old? She looks pretty good if that math is correct.

Honestly....I doubt she'd do any worse than one of the Bozo's we're about to elect. It's hard to get lower than rock bottom

Isn't this just despicable, down right vulgar, a trust squandered away, so unbecoming of our elected officials, and a Democrat at that. Timing is everything these days.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5997043&page=1

Jax

Give the Democrats a unified government to clean up some of the mess that Bush and his cronies have created. If they do their job, it will be a vast improvement.

If they mess up, you can come back and take the house away from them in 2010.

Jamie,
Laughs....almost every end to democracy started that exact way. Give us the power and we'll fix everything.
God I hope I'm wrong.....and I hope you're right....

UB - Boxer looks good, but she needs to reconsider that hair color. That shade of blond is not kind to her complexion color

Anselm - For whatever reason, probably some kind of power complex, male politicians have a hard time keeping their zippers up. At least he stuck to a middle aged woman rather than the pages and interns.

Anselm-just a note to you: In life, "timing" has always been everything.

"Jobs, baby Jobs"...Hillar'ys new pitch slogan from the campaign trail. Good one!

Oh look anselm found a scandal involving a Democrat. pretty boring as far as scandals go. Not like being caught with your pants down in an airport toilet!

Jamie,
Maybe a visit to a top salon could help her, it's not that hard, in a few hours - Fixed!

But who is going to tell her?- that always seems to be the issue with people who wield power - no one wants to cross them....and tell them their hair looks like crap! lollol

Rez...do you know a rez shirt?

damn typos. forgot the link too lol

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/13/clinton-jobs-baby-jobs_n_134278.html

PHILADELPHIA — Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton offered a Democratic rejoinder to the Republican chant of "drill, baby, drill." Said the one-time presidential candidate: "Jobs, baby, jobs."

UB, you mean tee shirt?

nah, my buddy was asking if you were a "rez" who they knew that sold shirts t-shirts under the name Rez shirt...i think

anyway, they are really cool people and very interested , and had a few joke for me to send your way , but they could not agree on which one was decent enough to pass on......

I don't think we Dems need scum like David Frum lecturing us about how we are going to screw things up! Mr. Axis of Evil needs to go away for a very very very long time.

UB,
yeah rezdog.com.. my nephew's biz my daughter is miss October in the AI Beauties calendar -2007

it's a small world, you never know.

peace~

and remember tomorrow comes to the fortunate --- :)

I' ll tell them tomorrow.

peace~

Note to Rez - Your daughter is absolutely beautiful _ I can' wait to see my friends tomorrow, I hope they are there.

creepy

At least he stuck to a middle aged woman rather than the pages and interns.

True, and at least his wife doesn't have terminal cancer. Do you wish to continue on down this route?

Rez, check your email.

Anselm

I'm just saying that hanky panky of all sorts at some time or another seems to hit the political class. It's that insulated feeling they get that somehow normal rules don't apply to them.

Anyone who is surprised by some sterling "family values" type getting caught in the inappropriate escapade with everything from girls to goats, needs to stay away from politics.

I assume you're talking about Newt when he served his breast cancer stricken wife with divorce papers while she was in the hospital recovering from having her breast remove. Yes?

my mistake she had uterine cancer.

B, YGM

T -99

:)

Philip Berg interview about his lawsuit against SoetorObama on Toledo TV station. When reporting on the Indonesian school document, the reporter "forgot" to mention something.

http://www.myfoxtoledo.com/myfox/pages/News/Politics/Detail?contentId=7637353&version=6&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=3.14.1

GORDO no one cares about Philip Burg.

SoetorObama and the DNC care - they are fighting discovery. If there is nothing to hide, what are they hiding? Plenty !!!

Judge: GOP's voter purge a 'violation of federal law'

"The ACLU is trumpeting a judge's decision in Michigan which brings to a halt the practice of eliminating voters from rolls if their mailing address is found to be invalid."

Voter Caging again. Trying to use a foreclosure list. Damn they never learn.

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/GOP_voter_purge_declared_illegal_in_1013.html

How did you know my drag name is Honeysuckle Rose

Rez, YGM

SHOCKER: National Enquirer says Obama used to think up dirty limericks with pedophile Frank Marshall Davis

http://hillbuzz.wordpress.com/2008/10/13/shocker-national-enquirer-says-obama-used-to-think-up-dirty-limericks-with-pedophile-frank-marshall-davis/

A new low for GORDO crowd. The black guy winning really scares the shit out of you people doesn't it CREEPO?

SHOCKER: Cleveland Brown 35, New York Giants 14 at Cleveland 2-minutes left, 4th quarter.

You're very sad gordo, think whatever you like.

Philip Berg interview about his lawsuit against SoetorObama on Toledo TV station. When reporting on the Indonesian school document, the reporter "forgot" to mention something.

http://www.myfoxtoledo.com/myfox/pages/News/Politics/Detail?contentId=7637353&version=6&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=3.14.1

This is a new low for Gordo.

Frank was a friend of Obama's grandfather. Nowhere in that article filled with vague innuendos is there any indication of any negative act of any kind by Obama. It's all more guilt by association and fear of the bad bad black man.

What a thrill for Craig to have his name and blog used by the likes of GORDO.

Complain to the National Enquirer. Afraid of the "hidden" past?

Piss off creepo

Couldn't agree more about David Frum, that f-king pipsqueak. He's another one everyone has to thank for the neocon strategy. What a maroon.

GORDO must be the pied piper of creeps, they always seem to come out from under their rocks whenever he appears. Who will show up next we can only wonder.

tylenol isn't amazing the Frum has the gall to think he can lecture anyone? I thought Rachel did a grand job dealing with the likes of him.

Richard Lewis killed. I wish he was a regular Monday commentator. I enjoyed his take on Biden, especially.
He is a very well respected man on The Ohio State campus, as he donates freely to the schools there...he graduated with a degree in marketing and communications in 1969...he's the same age as David Letterman, for comparison.
I just happened to sit near him at a Michigan / Ohio State football game when my daughter was a senior and for one game I had VIP seating as a parent of a senior. Ya wouldn't have even noticed him, really...my daughter's friend was seating the VIPs that day and she came and told me he was just a few feet from me. No big deal.

Dex, ya gave me a scare there. "Richard Lewis killed."

He killed, but he's not dead.

tt

Mark Penn Praises Obama For Handling 3 A.M. Economic Crisis

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/13/mark-penn-praises-obama-f_n_134305.html

great endorsement for Obama from the Boston Globe, worth the read.

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/editorials/articles/2008/10/13/obama_for_president/

Late Night Obamabot Pornography Open Thread

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/10/14/late-night-obamabot-pornography-open-thread/

Solar Crete - I logged in really late Monday morning and didn't see a response from you, and was really afraid I had offended you' So when I snuck in and saw your posts, I was greatly relieved and pleased.

I think you're absolutely right that one of the benefits of posting is being able to talk without interruption. This discussion we have had is what I like about here. My observations were only my own, not taught by anyone else, and I know I could be wrong about many of my conclusions so it's fun to talk it through with someone else who is also interested.

Actually, I think my main trouble is with the word "stole"
since I think ownership is required before something can be stolen. They say that native Americans didn't believe any humans owned the earth, and I like that attitude but all our ancestors sure didn't. See the land, take the land - or see the land, squat on it and it's yours.

The word "stole" is an emotional appeal, too, and I don't like that either. How far back can one take that?
For my money, you could say the Normans stole Britain and that today the royal family is worth millions which has in effect been "stolen" from the British people. It was accepted that the crown "owned" the land and parceled it out to those who would support them = this in return for the crown defending them. No votes were cast - it was accepted.

The crown also is wealthy in the matter of artistic property, jewelry and paintings, offered by another nation at the expense of the people who paid for it. The people of Britain didn't receive it - they gave gifts to the crowns of other nations.

Of course, that can be said of any ruling family or dynasty, and it is a simplification, but the fact of the matter is that human behaviour has never been very admirable. Just think, one might say that the ancients who crossed the Bering Straits and moved in on the native americans also stole land.

So I don't get exercised about the results of migratory
history - when the hunter-gatherers found out how to farm, the earth was doomed. (that is not an original idea; I just don't know whom to cite.)

We worry today about illegal aliens because of the political and economic and social organizations of nations. I have just recently seen in several places the idea that the USA "stole" California, and I can see somebody want to start a brou-ha-ha over it. Since we all came from Africa, we're all on land that was appropriated, or "stolen".

I am a pessimist in that I basically think life sucks, and then you die. I also think we have a right to try to alleviate at least some of the suckiness, and for me that includes not making myself ill with hatred. Some live with it and cherish it, but not for this kid (HA!) is the
role of avenger. I think most people on the earth today are kinder and more humane than those in the past because we can afford to be. Telling people that something was stolen from them is just stirring up trouble.

Oh well, another long post from me - sorry. I truly enjoyed the details of the various treaties etc and all the snags and snafus and arguments - who knew? It's just a few paragraphs in history books!

Also, glad to hear from those who liked my very late night "plea" for serious sense. I want something good to happen for us and the rest of the world.

"KCracker Fruit Stand and Casino"

I like it, KGC. I have a good friend in Texas who wants the two of us to retire and open the P&K Bait & Ammo Shop in South Louisiana.

Democrats took the lead away from Republicans in Washoe County voter registration for the first time in 30 years Monday, a shift that has the potential of fundamentally changing statewide politics for the next several election cycles.

http://news.rgj.com/article/20081014/NEWS19/810140350/1232

Democrats took the lead away from Republicans in Washoe County voter registration for the first time in 30 years Monday, a shift that has the potential of fundamentally changing statewide politics for the next several election cycles.

http://news.rgj.com/article/20081014/NEWS19/810140350/1232

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/obamas-slippery-landslide.html#comment-158449

Barbara Boxer's hair color: I would tell her. I got to know her when she was on the House side and she is as real and unassuming as she can be. She's a lovely person and downright nurturing to the staff. We worked on a couple of vote whipping projects and in those situations the staff were very much part of the informal discussions, sharing whatever intel we knew about different members via the stuff that our other staffer buddies shared with us. After one particularly successful whip meeting, Barbara was gleefully touching our foreheads, saying, "Bless you my child! Bless you my child!" It was cute and funny and typically Barbara.

Divalicias

Barbara Boxer has always come across as someone very likable. Her politics are a shade too liberal for me, but I would trust her long before I would look to the other side of the aisle for a solution to any problem.

Still, she does have to do something with that color.

NEW THREAD

Behtyboo---------No no,

Don't be pessimistic about life, don't be sad,not you, or people like you. Things are better today than in the past,( remember the good old day's-----not) while we have a very long way to go as how humans treat other humans, there has been much improvement.

You say that the native American didn't believe any humans owned the earth----exactly, this comes from the Aborigine's that I believe were the first people in North America through the spread of the out of Africa migration, and probably a close second, or at the same time the Clovis people, but the early people of the thinking world were very spiritual, and believed that we were all connected, animals, plants,etc, like it or not, we all come from the earth, and breath the same air. only in the very earliest of times was there cooperative true sharing of all things, including labor, and rewards. This is where i disagree with you a little---The American indian's did take competing tribes, if cought in battles, the women or men that they defeated in battle, but were allowed to assimilate,but the were slaves until.

To me the problems come when the powerful ( the chiefs of the tribes) decided that they were the(president Bush's of that time )and the indians were the ones that had to do all the work.With the seperation of these ideas, Religion, and poloticians have done a good job of making us believe we are just units of this world. I asked a friend once, how many oceans are there, he said seven, how many continents?( oops i forgot) any way, there is only one world, one ocean, one form of human, on, and on, my answer was that we with maps, grids, topography etc. made it into units of the earth and it's inhabitants. I would like to have my head frozen, and thawed when we live, humans live in another planet in the continuing migration out of Kansas strike that Africa. you and i will be talked about as ancients, and think how silly these early humanes were to think one did not depend on the other,thanks you are nice.