Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

You just noticed Obama supporters are cultish lemmings and that Obama exploits that, Craig?

...and then Coach Knight threw a chair at the guy.

The thing that makes it less scary but ickier when Obama does it is still the "bitter" comment. I can't know what's in his heart, but based on that one comment, it sure seems like joining that church in Chicago was a matter of political expedience.

I don't care if he's Christian, another religion or an atheist, but comments like that from him don't scare me the way they would from a right-wingnut, it just seems to me that he's pandering.

Again, it's the GOoPers who are the biggest Bible-thumpers and they are the ones with the biggest problem about "spreading the wealth." If they had to choose, their real god would be the almighty dollar and not the Almighty.

What first amendment?

Anti-tax author banned from selling his advice
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081023/ap_on_re_us/tax_rebel_injunction

Errrr

Craig, Ever heard of The Righteous Brothers? They got their name from someone in an early crowd yelling, "That's righteous brothers".

In that context it has nothing to do with religion and more to do power and beauty.

Some of us who are voting for Obama are doing it because McFailin is a worse choice, not because we are "mindless lemmings."

Soul and Inspiration

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDyOulteViU

Some of us who are voting for Obama are doing it because McFailin is a worse choice, not because we are "mindless lemmings."

A mind is a terrible thing to waste. Now parrot another trite nickname for the GOP ticket like a good soldier.

CHANGE WHAT?

I didn't see it as a religious comment either. I'm a atheist, but I use the word "God" quite often, as in "swear to" and "damn it". It's just the language we learn in America.

We sometimes still bristle a bit, but he finally figured out which buttons not to press if he didn't want to see the crockery flying.

I still don't adore Obama but he's growing into the job, seems to have a lot of good advice that he is actually taking, and is a hell of a lot better than the sclerotic and dysfunctional alternative.

Speaking of pandering, I hope to hell Obama drops the phony accents when he assumes office. I can't take it anymore. He threw in some street talk when he was solidifying blacks early on, now he's looking for the rural vote and he's dropping g's faster than a drunken chess player.

Craig -

Righteous could be the street usage. As in good. I know Jan and Dean were using it once upon a time.

As in "Man that's one Righteous Ride".

Craig Crawford - The unity pundit.

"dog hussein lemming dog"

Are we back to that old saw now?

"They think he is a righteous dude!" - The school secretary telling the principal how kids feel about Ferris Bueller

Craig,

Considering that you live in the D.C. area, I figured you would fall on your knees and pray that any righteous wind would come in and blow away the stench that has hovered over your city for the last 8 years...

On a different note,

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dawn-teo/arizona-gop-in-desperate_b_136701.html

Something tells me Obama could do some damage in AZ...

Well, I guess if the New Joshua can't use "righteous" nobody can. FISA vote, anybody?

Speaking of 1 to 10's .....

McCain is on his Roto Rooter tour, and the big O has a Righteous Wind.

Patsi,

I won't worry unless he delivers his innaugural speech in pidgin Hawaiian slang. :-) My pet peeve is saying "tuh" instead of "to".

Given all his linguistic influences from flat Kansan to Hawaii to Philippines, to Ivy League to Chicago, to black church, he probably slips into whichever accent happens to be closest.

If you supported Obama too, you wouldn't get any flack here, Craig. LOL!

Patsi,

Drunken chess players dropping their G's?

I'm embarrassed to admit that I don't get that...

Perhaps dropping more G's than a that Charles Barkley at a craps table is better?

Righteous wind at our backs here? I hope they didn't serve beans last night! LOL!

That's terble, Bear! Really, terble!

My favorite Charles Barkley quote was when he used the word "surreal" in a sentence. He said he didn't know what it meant, but he heard someone say it before and it sounded cool.

Arizona will be decided by who goes to the polls. If it is the elderly snow birds and those wanting to pull for the favorite son, then it will go McCain. If it is the Governor and Obama's GOTV driving the Hispanic and growing yuppies fleeing California vote to the polls, then Obama could take it.

Considering the Republicans wanted to carve Reagan's head on Mount Rushmore just a few short years ago ...... The whole idolatry attack doesn't wash very well.

Bear, just picturing a drunk trying to play chess. Should probably have said drunken chess player dropping pawns....:)

But I like Barkley at the craps table.

Jamie: "My pet peeve is saying "tuh" instead of "to".

Same here.

They all do that language thing -- and it made me grind my teeth equally when Hillary got into that mode.

Craig- are you gonna let Chris M. outlast you this election?

perhaps i should have noted that last night i watched Pier Paolo Pasolini's "The Gospel According to St. Matthew" -- so maybe i'm hyper attuned to religiosity today

Sorry,

That reference is a little lost on me because one of my really good friends is a chess savant and he could be drunk and high enough to be unable to stand, but put a chess board in front of him and he was Kasparov...I couldn't beat him when I was dead sober and using a chess simulator so I quit playing actually...lol

Corey, I'd recommend standing upwind.

And it is all about the youth vote. I remember Joe S. really making Andrea Mitchell mad in 2004 by being so sure that the youth wouldn't come out. They didn't.

At least Hillary was quoting a lyric from a hymn, but hearing her say "I Aint in No Way Tarred" instead of Tired did make me wince. :-)

I probably shouldn't say anything. My roots are so confused, that pronunciation could end up anywhere.

The Greenspan testimony is starting to sound a lot like Rice at the 9/11 hearings.

Craig,

Interesting timing to you post considering that today's rerun of West Wing on Bravo deals with Vinnick's blowing off the Jesus freaks in his church and declaring he hasn't been to church in years...if memory serves...he lost right?

From the last thread:

"Pardon me Gordo, but you're obsessed."

Posted by Pogo

Gee Pogo, 'ya think?

Spot on post !!!!

Craig
Great post!! Obama makes me uneasy much of the time.When I hear him speak, unlike most here,he sounds to much like some of those phony preachers I worked with at G.M....Thanks for your honest thought provoking blog posts......

ET, yes, and I try.

Craig- I always thought that was so funny last time, "cos Chris M. is a good, what, 10-15yrs older than you, and you left while he was still bouncing up and down in seat and looking fresh as a first grader.

Obama's lead widens in latest Ipsos/McClatchy poll

A new Ipsos/McClatchy poll out Tuesday found:

* Obama, the Democrat, supported by 50 percent of likely voters.

* McCain, the Republican, supported by 42 percent.

* Independent candidate Ralph Nader supported by 1 percent.

Libertarian candidate Bob Barr didn't register enough support to count. Another 7 percent of likely voters didn't support any of those candidates or didn't know whom they supported.

The Ipsos/McClatchy poll of 773 likely voters was taken last Thursday through Monday. It has an error margin of plus or minus 3.5 percentage points.

Blue, spot on!

Champ that was a magnificent cheap shot against those of us who are supporting Obama.

More than 750 people cast advance ballots on Wednesday, the first day of advance voting in Sedgwick County. That's nearly double the number who voted on the first day of advance voting four years ago.

Wichita, Kansas

just playin with them, euro. no snarkiness intended

"That reference is a little lost on me because one of my really good friends is a chess savant and he could be drunk and high enough to be unable to stand, but put a chess board in front of him and he was Kasparov"

Funny -- I've seen some drunks who couldn't have done so....but they weren't savants.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/obamas-righteous-wind-claim-ov.html#comment-162423

Patsi I see your point, but as much as I was PASSIONATELY for Hillary, I thought she did much of the same to change how she spoke depending on the region she was campaigning in.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/obamas-righteous-wind-claim-ov.html#comment-162455

rosiethecat, i'm not following you with the Chris M posts. to what does the madam refer?

Craig- I always thought that was so funny last time, "cos Chris M. is a good, what, 10-15yrs older than you, and you left while he was still bouncing up and down in seat and looking fresh as a first grader.

Oops, sorry for the dble post

Tom in Euro -

Here , here.

Tom said: "but as much as I was PASSIONATELY for Hillary, I thought she did much of the same to change how she spoke depending on the region she was campaigning in."

Agree, Tom. That's why I posted this:

"They all do that language thing -- and it made me grind my teeth equally when Hillary got into that mode."

Posted by: Patsi | October 23, 2008 1:09 PM

backtracking? ah mebbe you guys have talked me down to a 5.2 on my squeamish meter

no prob about double post rosie, but i didn't understand it either time

The last election. Chris was up ALL night long, and everyone was dropping like flies around him. You put in a good running, you stayed up pretty late,(not sure how long 'cos of the funky time difference).but alas, you gave it up also.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/obamas-righteous-wind-claim-ov.html#comment-162445

Pasolini? Wow, I first saw "Salò o le 120 giornate di Sodoma" showing at a theatre within the University of Minnesota. Was I ever shocked! I actually bought the DVD and watched it again. Still as shocking, still as disturbing, and still a strong commentary on the hypocrisy of religious piety and the excesses of Italy's historical fascism.

I was going to buy Cantebury Tales, but I have held off because if it's Passolini it's GOT to be excessive, albeit that is part of the genius of his work. I am still undecided if I will buy it or not.

On a sad note -

William Shatner, armchair psychotherapist, says in a new YouTube video that former shipmate George Takei must have some sort of "psychosis" because Takei harbors a long-standing grudge against him ... about which Shatner goes on for a good four minutes.

http://www.nj.com/entertainment/celebrities/index.ssf/2008/10/william_shatner_bolding_diagno.html

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/obamas-righteous-wind-claim-ov.html#comment-162474

ah ok, now i get it. well i am not a big fan of working election nights -- talk about 'everything has been said, but not everybody has said it'

GORDO you'll want to watch that Shatner clip.

pogo ---------------------------

Continuing our discussion from the previous thread.
-----------------------
"... american citizen who was born an american citizen on u.s. soil - and there doesn't seem to be much of a dispute over that ..."

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/spread-the-wealth-wins-votes.html#comment-162391
-----
No dispute? What about Coast Hospital in Mombasa, Kenya?
-----
"All persons born in the United States are citizens of the United States ... One of the most complicated areas of US citizenship law involves the passage of citizenship to children born outside the US to one or more US citizen parents. ... there is one important office that only natural born citizens can hold – the presidency ...

What are the rules for people born between December 23, 1952 and November 13, 1986?

When one parent was a US citizen and the other a foreign national, the US citizen parent must have resided in the US for a total of 10 years prior to the birth of the child, with five of the years after the age of 14."

http://www.visalaw.com/05jan1/2jan105.html
-----

Barry/Barack DOB: August 4, 1961

Stanley Ann DOB: November 29, 1942

She was 18+ years old -- did not meet the five year requirement if he was born outside the US. No passage of citizenship.
=====
Understand the importance of the Mercer Island, WA visit in August 1961 by Stanley Ann and baby Barry?

Shatner was just being pissy 'cos he was the only cast member that wasn't invited to his wedding.

Heather Wilson (R) NM = 50's gym teacher

don't know about those others, Euro, but Pasolini's "Gospel" is one of the most straghtforward, almost documentary-like accounts of the life of Jesus (perhaps because Pasolini was an atheist)

Craig, same cringe here. Must be a southern thang. Not much use of the word righteous in the Bible Belt without that religious connotation. Now in a Chicago jazz club, maybe so.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/obamas-righteous-wind-claim-ov.html#comment-162484

amen, pogo, i'm back to a 5.5

GORDO -
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
ob·ses·sion /əbˈsɛʃən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[uhb-sesh-uhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. the domination of one's thoughts or feelings by a persistent idea, image, desire, etc.
2. the idea, image, desire, feeling, etc., itself.
3. the state of being obsessed.
4. the act of obsessing.

I assume that Governor palin and Congresswoman bachmann despise the "anti-American" Sermon on the Mount" ("The Beatitudes", for my Roman Catholic friends), and all that business about loaves and fishes, and giving your cloak to the poor, love your enemy, etc. No doubt, they think it's very commie-istic to spout such anti-Croesus and defeatist propaganda, and that Jesus was a Muslim terrorist, commie agitator, and unrepentant feminazi.

Calvinists have traditionally thought that the riches indicate the favor (Grace, as they put it) of God. I don't know that this is still a popular idea among Calvinists. The UCC certainly seems to be more sympathetic to poor people than were the Covenanters from which they eventually evolved. Traditionally, Calvinists are also determinists (fatalists) like the Moslems and commies. ~( :>0)

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/obamas-righteous-wind-claim-ov.html#comment-162486

snicker, snort, Craig.

Oh! CW Bachmann accused Chis M. of setting a trap for her! Her words, honest.

Yeah Gordo, shut up and bow to the Master.

"Craig how high does your cringe meter go when you hear Palin speaking about god?"

here's my answer: http://homepages.wmich.edu/~p3carney/Crusades/CS010471.jpg

Springtime for Hitler
By Josh Marshall

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/239410.php

well i gotta run, somebody look up Lincoln's quote about how it's better to be "on God's side" instead of thinking God is on yours, or something like that. it'll make me feel less squeamish

Jesus wasn't just a Jew.

Jesus was, is, and forever shall be, a Jew.

If Judaism is good enough for Jesus, it ought to be good enough for the Assemblies of God and Southern Baptists.

Posted by: Ping Pong | October 23, 2008 11:05 AM :
"PS - The poor widow that gave so much was also taken care of by her community - not a government"

1. Where do you find this information ?
2. It is interesting, but not relevant.
3. Tacit in your statement is a denial that the US is a community.
4. You republicans are supposed to oppose community, because communities stifle 'rugged individualism'.
5. When are you republicans finally going to start taking care of all the widows and orphans that you want to take off welfare, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security ??? What's your pledge, big shot ?

It's a picture of the Crusades=10

Champ is one's for you -

http://www.ragtimepiano.ca/images/sourgrapes.jpg

Craig,
I'm with you on this as well. It sure raised my eyebrows. I doubt that the BO faihtful or the religious right have an issue with comments like that. Nice to know that there are a few pragmatists that do.

Lessons learned well from the R's

Lessons learned from the republicans,religion is what moves the majority of the country,,,,,,,yes he is pandering, i hope that is all if he reads the bible like GW we are in for a bumpy ride, power of $ and religion is what the bible teaches( the meek will never inherit). Obama will out do the teacher---the rev, W,,,,he learned his lessons well,,i don't think that he will distribute the wealth,,,maybe yours and mine, but not his?

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/am-polls-show-surprisingly-large-leads.html

It's a twofer -
The Ferris Bueller / Evangelical vote.

Grace: Oh, he's very popular Ed. The sportos, the motorheads, geeks, sluts, bloods, waistoids, dweebies, dickheads - they all adore him. They think he's a righteous dude.

I wonder if the good rev. W's mil $ house that he inherited from his flock is completed, bet no one but the maid lives there?

"A righteous wind at our back"

Isn't that Mid '60s Surfer talk ?

sure it is....welcome to the faithful....laughs

“Sir, my concern is not whether God is on our side; my greatest concern is to be on God's side, for God is always right”

Abraham Lincoln

The Republicans have a larger problem than Obama as president. They need to begin thinking about what faction they'll join when the purges begin in the Republican Party. Because Voo-Doo economics is dead.

Craig,

You want us to read Lincoln ?

Don't you know that Lincoln was so anti-American that he instituted the income tax to destroy us ? ~( :>0)

So is the Constitution.

atticus,
they haven't invented a type of economics that will save with all the new spending that's on its way....

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/obamas-righteous-wind-claim-ov.html#comment-162512

I thought it was to pay the bills for the Civil War. Good liberal Republican ... pay the bills and take care of the poor people.

Amazing how the two parties have completely switched constituents.

Atticus Finch, Esq.,

I suspect that you mean doo-doo economics. Voodoo economics is what they call it before the doo-doo hits the pan. They are both closely related to trickle down economics.

Bwt, are you feeling flush these days ?

Forty years ago, Richard Nixon made a remarkable marketing discovery. By exploiting America's divisions -- divisions over Vietnam, divisions over cultural change and, above all, racial divisions -- he was able to reinvent the Republican brand. The party of plutocrats was repackaged as the party of the "silent majority," the regular guys -- white guys, it went without saying -- who didn't like the social changes taking place.

It was a winning formula. And the great thing was that the new packaging didn't require any change in the product's actual contents -- in fact, the GOP was able to keep winning elections even as its actual policies became more pro-plutocrat, and less favorable to working Americans, than ever.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/384332_krugman22.html?source=mypi

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/cc65ed650d

Yesterday we were going on about "truth is stranger than fiction". There is a new movie coming out "Changeling" starring Angelina Jolie about a true story from late 1920s Los Angeles. Truth really took a major vacation from the probable with Christine Collins and the changes her case made in California law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Changeling_(2008_film)

Who to choose?

In Germany, there was a jewish family that had a catholic maid, while home alone with the families only child, the maid decides that she did not want the child(5-6 years old) to go to hell, so she baptizes the him, i did not know that this could be done by anyone, and without holy water (hey every time that i drink water im baptizing myself), anyway after mass one sunday she bragged about a new convert to the priest.The cathlic church took the child away from the jewish familly------after a few days the family went to the bishop and demanded the son back-----the bishop said no way, they willl keep the child,,,,,,,thinking that he had another 2 converts the bishop told the family that if they converted to the catholic faith that they could have their son back,,,,they refused and never saw their son again,,,,,,they sent the boy away.
either way they loose,,,,,they chose the church,,,,,other churches have gods also, how did they know that theirs was the right choice?

I know that my brother the catholic decan, if given the choice between his family 4 of them and his church he would choose the
church, cos he told me that he would choose the church over me or my bro's during a heated conversation that religion always does.

I totally disagree that the word "righteous" is religious talk. It just means justice, and good. Evil is a religious word and politicians have been throwing around the word "evil" like it just means "bad" for years. I didn't hear anyone complaining about that being religious. Evil is a purely religious word. Good vs. evil is biblical, not logical. Some people like myself don't even believe in evil, but we believe in righteousness.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/spread-the-wealth-wins-votes.html#comment-162476

Dearest Xrep… (and thank goodness you departed if indeed you ever have been)

I was reading your delightful post at the end of the last thread. I find concern for your negative and bitter elements but is consistent with your ex-republican status -- with your approach this may not be good for your health – I would avoid calling you new-Dem. Fortunately the majority of Dem’s I know do not represent your biter distain and actually enjoy a productive argument.

Oh I digress…

So to answer your question – Historians and Theologians would be the source – Talk about separation of Church and state…. But to much for this thread.

Also your blanket statement that Republicans do not care for the welfare of individuals is so the negative smear campaign statement of hate and ignorance – so sad – I feel sorry for your lack of understanding and failed use to label a group without knowing the facts.

Will keep an eye out for a more responsive post other then one with a foundation of odium. (I think that was a Flatus word)

Solar,
That's just sad......but there are alot of people like that and they are becoming more political as well....it's a virtual lock that we will be less free tomorrow than we are today.

The twist on VooDoo / DooDoo is -

Karl Rove made being a "C" student a virtue. That there was some kind of wisdom in mediocrity.

The tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity.
James F. Cooper

Atticus....
no doubt...mediocrity is our new virtue...at the expense of excellence

Jamie,

Yes, Lincoln seemed to care about the underclass. The last Republican president of noble character was Chester A. Arthur. I believe that he was denied the nomination of his party as a result of his scupulous honesty.

I categorize TD as member of the Bullmoose Party.

Hey, thanks!

http://www.newsweek.com/id/165128

Damn polls.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/behind-the-numbers/2008/10/this_race_goes_to_11.html?hpid=topnews

;-)

Brain -
How about this +1 and deal. No question what is yours if itis this -1

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/spread-the-wealth-wins-votes.html#comment-162364

The same so-called Liberals who have bemoaned past Republican manipulative practices defend and rationalize the use of similar techniques by their own candidates, as if to assert it's not the method that is objectionable, but he objective itself. The worst aspect of this phenomenon is that there is nothing ironic about it.

Bear you have the prize for the day with that link.

Gordo,

I got my meds so i'll play :)

1) not agreeing he was born anywhere besides HI
2) but if so, i.e. Kenya, then according to the cite you linked,
the next sentence following: "with five of the years after the age of 14."
reads:
"Children born out of wedlock to a US citizen mother were US citizens if the mother was resident in the US for a period of one year prior to the birth of the child."

Hey, thanks!

http://www.newsweek.com/id/165128

Posted by: Troll | October 23, 2008 2:55 PM

Obviously Mr. Samuelson is under the mistaken assumption that America's youth is actually getting an education and not frittering away the prime of their lives on myspace and facebook in an orgy of unprecedented self-absorption.

How 'bout some Kinks?

Celluloid Heroes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDd-MtRFvRA

Champ you seem to have the position that the past 8 years have been some sort of crowning achievement .

"not frittering away the prime of their lives on myspace and facebook in an orgy of unprecedented self-absorption."

Champ is there a better time to fritter?

As far a self absorbtion, Hey they got us boomers as a guide. Gonna be hard to be more self absorbed than a boomer.

Jack

"...Hope in the face of difficulty, hope in the face of uncertainty, the audacity of hope: In the end, that is God's greatest gift to us, the bedrock of this nation, a belief in things not seen, a belief that there are better days ahead.

I believe that we can give our middle class relief and provide working families with a road to opportunity.

I believe we can provide jobs for the jobless, homes to the homeless, and reclaim young people in cities across America from violence and despair.

I believe that we have a righteous wind at our backs, and that as we stand on the crossroads of history, we can make the right choices and meet the challenges that face us.

America, tonight, if you feel the same energy that I do, if you feel the same urgency that I do, if you feel the same passion that I do, if you feel the same hopefulness that I do, if we do what we must do, then I have no doubt that all across the country, from Florida to Oregon, from Washington to Maine, the people will rise up in November, and John Kerry will be sworn in as president. And John Edwards will be sworn in as vice president. And this country will reclaim it's promise. And out of this long political darkness a brighter day will come.

Thank you very much, everybody.

God bless you. Thank you. "

Sure sounds religious to me. By the way, the quote is from His 2004 address before the Democratic Convention.

Here ya go Champ suck on this -

Jealousy is the tribute mediocrity pays to genius.
Fulton J. Sheen

One of the brightest stars in the economic universe ..... ladies and gentelmen, McDonald's.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/23/mcdonalds-3q-profit-jumps_n_137118.html

Flatus

That is funny.

And yes Obama uses a lot of preacher speak in his speeches. I don't know if he is a true believer or he has just hung around all the preacher and preacher wannabes that inhabit the dogooding business.

Jack

Please, Craig, "righteous" means "morally correct" (you could look it up); it doesn't mean Godly, though that it another meaning that I suppose is popular in your neck of the woods. I'm a liberal elite atheist, and I'm a righteous one.

Rezdog --------------

I know. So were his parents married? He says they were. If it's proven that he was born in Kenya, then he can say they were not.

That's why ALL documents need to be released. He is using the legal system to keep his "hidden" past a secret.

If he has nothing to hide -- what is he hiding? He is hiding info that would show that he does not meet the Constitutional requirements for POTUS.

There is more: multiple citizenships, etc.

Pogo

McD's has become the breakfast place for the wife and I on our Saturday mornings out. We used to go to several different local restaurants. But we have been cutting back

What has walmart been doing, they are another indicator of bad times.

Jack

speaking of cutting back
Better get some beans on to cook.

Jack

So, what difference does it make where he was born?
NONE by your own admission.

Marriage records are public documents go find theirs.

It's funny you never include that next sentence when you quote that legal cite. Actually it's not funny, it's makes perfect sense inre: Pogo's comment about intent.

As far a self absorbtion, Hey they got us boomers as a guide. Gonna be hard to be more self absorbed than a boomer.

Jack

Posted by: whskyjack Author Profile Page | October 23, 2008 3:10 PM

That's why I posted a boomer pop-song. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Jack,

Stopped by our local Wachovia this morning. Commiserated with the tellers, wishing them 'good fortune'. One told me she has a good friend working at the major Catholic hospital in Columbia. Her friend told her that the hospital has cut two positions held by 20-year employees; sayonara. People are very nervous here.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/obamas-righteous-wind-claim-ov.html#comment-162542

Well it probably doesn't help that the treasury has been ripping off the surpluss from the Boomers' SS payments to cover the deficit for decades.

Hmm, Atticus, let's see... negation of the Constitution, war-mongering, fear-mongering, corporate welfare, squandering of resources, rampant manipulation, ideological warfare...yeah, the last 8 years were fantastic! Let's HOPE the next 8 are better, because that's about all we have left. If only we had a savior, a grand orator, to save us from all this earthly turmoil. Not Jesus, though, because religion is evil! I prefer a secular deity.

ping pong,

1. Re your crocodile tears and concern about my health. You don't mean it, as shown by your characterizing as 'hate' my holding you accountable for your words. Save your fibs for your family.

2. I asked for your source on the quip that the poor widow was cared for by her community. Your failure to name any of the alleged historians or theologians shows that your original assertion was mere bs.

3. I also see that you decline to step up to the plate for poor people, just as I suspected you would. So much for your concern for the poor widow, and the underclass that she represents. How very republican of you.

The municipal employees that opted out of Social Security here in Texas have done extremely well when compared to the ones that stayed with SS. 5-8 times better

G Man,

Did you ever hear of or see that kid's toy/game; "Whac- A-Mole"?

Hi G Mole!

Craig: no nuance needed today - that was a stupid post.

Careful Craig....can a party excommunicate you?

Here's a chant for your next rally:

"What are we going to do?"

"CHANGE!"

"What are we going to CHANGE?"

"We're not quite sure yet!"

"How are we going to CHANGE it?"

"We were waiting for you to tell us!"

"I'm all for the newest generation paying taxes to pay for the benefits of aging baby boomers, just like I paid the benefits for my parents generation, that's how the system works. "

I never minded paying into SS, knowing it was being paid out to an earlier generation, either. But I've been a little surprised at some of the next generation who really do resent it.

But I figure I'm doing my part , as was noted earier -- with no health insurance I probably won't live to collect anything anyway. (That's only a sort-of joke...)

Rezdog --------------

"So, what difference does it make where he was born?"

Try reading the citizenship law again. Marriage status, citizenship status of parents, age of US citizen parent at time of birth, etc., all matter.

It's about the passage of citizenship if the child is born outside the US.

Champ: I admit, the change message can be a bit annoying at times, but it's proven to be absolutely effective. Obama has not moved from his one-word message since day one - and that is why he is winning. Unlike McCain, Obama has not had to reshift the narrative over and over again. For a good account of the ups and downs of the Mac message, see this fascinating profile from the Times Sunday magazine:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/26/magazine/26mccain-t.html

Also: I happen to think change is a bit better than the relentless POW self-aggrandizing we get from McCain.

Country first! Oh, by the way, did you know they broke my bones, my friends, but they never broke my spirit? Country first! Sometimes we're going to disagree, that's what happens when you've got a team of mavericks. Country first.

See, my friend, we can go back and forth on this.

Patsi,
You know you don't have to have insurance to pay for medical care...My doctor actually excepts checks...and cash

"Well it probably doesn't help that the treasury has been ripping off the surpluss from the Boomers' SS payments to cover the deficit for decades."

That's right, Jamie....and of course, when Gore talked about locking that door, the media turned him into a buffoon.

" If it's proven that he was born in Kenya,"

Gordo, make up your mind. I thought you were touting some other place where he was born. Have we now switched to Kenya?

I'll agree it's an effective manipulative technique, PU, so much so that McCain is even trying to use it himself. I'm not as concerned with the practices of politics so much as I am with the erosion of our rights and civil liberties, coupled with the deification of human beings and the unquestioning adulation of them. I could continue with that with which I'm concerned, but, alas, I have some more important things to do than saving our Great Republic at the moment. Good day.

Yeah, trader, if I get cancer or some shit I'll ask if they'll take a check.

Flatus

I talked to my sister last week, she works as a cardiac care nurse. Business is slow. People are putting off going to the hospital. Even the cardiac unit that you would think would be mostly recession proof. After all if you have a heart attack what are you gonna do? I guess stay home and see if you die.

Jack

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/obamas-righteous-wind-claim-ov.html#comment-162497

and don't forget, xrepublican, Jesus was a community organizer

Patsi,
I'm sure that they will. Probably give you a good deal too......

Probably give you a good deal too......

Spoken like some one who is healthy, or has good insurance.

When you pay cash you pay full price. The insurance companies get major discounts.
Under a previous insurance plan I had to pay for my doctor visit $176.00 and the blood work up @ around $500, My current insurance pays for it they pay 75 to the doctor and $80 for the blood workup.
No discount for paying cash you just get screwed.

Jack

SolarCrete,

Your reference is to the 1856 kidnapping of 6 year old Egardo Mortara from his parent's home in Bologna, Italy (a papal state at that time) by soldiers of Pope pius ix.

The Mortara boy was held in the Papal quarters for 10 years. The strenuous entreaties of embassies from Britain, France, and other countries failed to secure his release. Pope pius was quoted as saying that he loved the boy and was raising him as his own son. While Garibaldi later put an end to such egregious predation of little boys by pius, the Piedmontese troops and agents were unable to find young Edgardo. Around 1870, Mortara was 'put into orders' and smuggled to a monatery in Belgium. He met his family again around the turn of the 20th Century, when he was over 40 years old, and several times after that.

Edgardo Mortara died in Belgium in 1940, as the nazis were crushing Belgium underheel.

The Mortara case proves the ability of women to perform sacramental rites in the Roman Catholic Church. The legal argument that pius had a compelling interest in removing Edgardo from his non-Catholic family is based on an alleged baptism, successfully performed by a teen-aged girl.

Gordo, sorry, I didn't see your 1:43 post until now.

Let me 'splain something to you. Berg is the plaintiff. The burden of proof is his. He has asserted that Obama was born in Mombasa, Kenya. Berg has the burden of proving that. Try as he may, he can't shift that burden to Obama. Others, Obama included, have asserted Obama was born in HI. Obama travels internationally, presumably under a U.S. passport, and if that is the case enjoys the presumption that the passport was issued properly. I've read the texasdarlin' site stuff, excerpted below:

"Update 2, 10/12/08 10:40 AM ET: Since originally posting this story Saturday, Atty. Philip Berg’s office informed us that they cannot discuss this matter due to pending litigation, which is understandable. They also informed us that Berg is NOT collaborating with Ed Hale, moderator of a site, “Hillary Clinton Supporters for John McCain” and host of a radio show. We have had no direct contact with Ed Hale, and have no idea whether he’s truthful or not. Whether or not the “tip” we received is accurate, only time will tell. At this time, we have no further independent verification. However, the reason we published this story and the reason we will keep the story on this blog is that the language in Berg’s filing — which is a matter of public record — is specific about the Kenyan birth place, and we assume that the claim is based on something besides wishful thinking.

Update 1, 10/11/08: Please note that the information about the Kenyan BC is based on a tip that has not yet been verified. The information about the lawsuit is confirmed, and was taken from the court record."

And I read a lot of the nonsense that was posted at some of the sites you provided before. They, too, were based on supposition.

Gordo, do you know what the term "has not been verified" means? Do you know what the term "we assume" means?

Now here's an interesting fact - Berg filed a Motion for Summary Judgment in his case yesterday - based on faulty grounds and which will be denied. What was not attached? The Kenyan BC referred to in the texasdarlin site 12 days ago and aassumed to have been sent to Berg. That leads me to conclude 2 things - the unverified tip about the BC was not correct and Berg has nothing to prove his assertions about it.

At this point, Phillip Berg has proved nothing, Oh he claims to know something at odds with what others have said they know, and at odds with a document he (well, you, actually) claim is altered. But let us know when Berg actually has something that supports his assertions. Then we can talk about what is rather than what may be.

Continue to check the EDPa website - it may help you understand what's going on.

Jack,

There was a front page Times article a couple of days ago saying people were cutting down on their prescription meds. Like taking every other dose, or making value judgments as to whether the med is really important.

Docs aren't pleased as more severe illness will probably result with the ultimate cost being much higher than the skipped doses.

Here's a link to the EDPa Pacer portal - makes things so much easier.

Try again - here's the link.

http://dockets.justia.com/docket/court-paedce/case_no-2:2008cv04083/case_id-281573/

Jax -- back when I HAD insurance, I broke my shoulder. I had a four thousand dollar deductable. When all was said and done it took about $2500 for the whole thing, including seeing a specialist. I cut the emergency room a $1500 check and all I got was a four hour wait, a pain pill and an x-ray. Then the ONE doctor on duty gave me the name of a specialist and told me to call him because they could do nothing but put my arm in a sling.

The bill from the ER named THREE doctors as being paid, plus a bunch of other strange costs....in the end, after several visits to a specialist, he said he didn't want to do surgery...the bone seemed to be healing okay. Should have seen HIS bill!

"It's about the passage of citizenship if the child is born outside the US."

Right Gordo,

According to that paragraph about children born between December 23, 1952 and November 13, 1986?

Here's the applicable part of the rule if he was born in Kenya or Timbuktu:

Children born out of wedlock to a US citizen mother were US citizens if the mother was 10+ resident in the US for a period of one year prior to the birth of the child."

So he's a citizen if he was born in HI or anywhere in the world as long as you agree S..A. Dunham was his mother and BHO Sr. his father.

When someone characterized nixon's SCOTUS appointee, Carswell as mediocre, republican rep Karl Mundt said, "Mediocre people deserve representation on, too".

Jack, Wal-Mart has been doing better than most.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6500801/

Who's doing well? Wal-Mart, McDonald's and China. I may buy some gold.

Jack,
I pay into an HSA that is my own. I carry a very high deductible....just in case it's something really bad. But I go to each doctor and negotiate my fees to the insurance level. Same with my dentist....he gives me 10% below insurance. My standard doctor visit is $56.00 in Houston, TX. The trick is you have to negotiate with these doctors like you would for auto repairs. We've gotten out of the habit because of insurance

After this story, you can no longer doubt his ability to be president...

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?section=magazine&id=3653401

"In 2004, when Mike Ditka considered running against him for Senate, Obama—remembering how Ditka let William Perry score a Super Bowl TD instead of Walter Payton—said that "anybody who would give the ball to Refrigerator Perry instead of Sweetness doesn't have very good judgment." Ditka didn't run. "Too bad," Obama says. "We were hoping he would."

Likes to bait Hall of Famers. Check."

Rezdog,

I think GORDO is concurring that Obama's birth was a virgin birth and therefore doesn't meet the "father was a citizen" part of the criteria...

Posted by: xrepublican Author Profile Page | October 23, 2008 4:18 PM

No the champion of the mediocre in Roman Hruska

LOL@ Bear

That would fit right in with the theme of the thread.

Patsi,
Yeah, I haven't figured out the emergency room yet. I get screwed there as well. I've got 3 teenage boys...all athletes so I've gotten to know the specialists well...:)

Two of a Kind.... I actually have this album. It is Johnny Mercer and Bobby Darin... but the context of the video is very relevant to politics

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=dTlMC0AchhY

"I think GORDO is concurring that Obama's birth was a virgin birth and therefore doesn't meet the "father was a citizen" part of the criteria..."

ROFL, Bear.

Hey Jack, Any more recession proof recipes coming our way?

GORDO,

Berg's suit is what is known in the trade as a 'slap suit', meant to harrass, intimidate, or otherwise accomplish something other than what is alleged on the face. In this case, it was filed for the purpose of generating propaganda. You see, people use the existence of the suit as the basis of an argument that there something wrong. In fact, it is just a suit, and anyone with the filing fee and a typewriter can launch one.

As the rest of us agree that Obama is a citizen it is the burden of you and Berg to prove that he isn't. I don't know what the alleged Kenyan hospital records say. However, unless you can secure and show them to be of Barack Obama (the very same Barack Obama, for instance with baby fingerprints or footprints matching those of the presidential candidate of the same name or some other such evidence) and do it by a certain deadline, the lawsuit, and your aspiration, are dead.

Rez, the issue IF Obama were born in Kenya would be whether he was born in or out of wedlock. (See my 4:13 post - I think Berg is blowing smke that Gordo is inhaling) I don't believe there'smuch controversy about whether his parents were married. At least according to Wiki, they were married on February 2, 1961 in Maui. If that's correct, the 10/5 year rule would appear to apply. But that stuff Gordo posted is a general summary from Siskind, Susser, an immigration law firm, with no link to the statute. It is not likely to be exhaustive.

Champ are you overdosing on Halcyon or something? The reason the Dems are reacting is because they have been total wimps in previous elections believing that the people would not buy into the Republican hate machine and smear tactics. Now they are finally finding their balls (figuratively speaking) and fighting back effectively. Being the Alpha Male you project yourself to be, one would presume that you would admire this.

I know you aren't DEM or REPUG(?) but what are you supporting? Or are you just attacking everyone and everything? If I missed where you stand I apologise. I just want to know what you expect Dems, bend over and take it in the ass again???

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/obamas-righteous-wind-claim-ov.html#comment-162546

GORDO... in spite of the rabble rousers who think you're actually making serious points here or advancing anything that even resembles reality, I think you are totally looney tunes.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/obamas-righteous-wind-claim-ov.html#comment-162555

Ok Champ, this post is a bit clearer to me. Still, who do you think has a better chance of changing direction from the last 8 years? It sure as hell isn't Bob Barr or Ralph Nader. So who then?

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/obamas-righteous-wind-claim-ov.html#comment-162561

Yet another silly season... You don't want the last 8 years but you belittle those who want significant change in direction for our country. Since Dems or Repugs are the only real political players, do you go with the lesser bad or do you throw it all out and just bitch about how bad things are?

Ms Cracker,

Rings a bell. It does seem a bit too dim-witted for Mundt.

The fellow said it on a tv show co-hosted by him with Sen Everett Dircksen. I did not have the 'ROFL' diction at that early date, however I was able to roll on the floor laughing without it.

XR, see my 4:13 post - as they say, put up or shut up. Berg may have his dick in his hand (a legal term), but he ain't got anything else - if he did, he'd atttach it to his MSJ to protect himself from sanctions if for no other reason. And while federal district judges don't normally impose harsh sanctions under Rule 11, they don't mind small sanctions against attorneys who file suits without a reasonable basis based on a reasonable inquiry - normally in the form of simply a requirement that they pay the fees of the parties burdened by the suit. Considering the issues raised in the suit and the number of filings thus far (24) that could be expensive. But I'm guessing that the RNC might find the sheckels to pay the fine.

Rezdog-----------------

"So he's a citizen if he was born in HI or anywhere in the world as long as you agree S..A. Dunham was his mother and BHO Sr. his father."

If they were not married, he HAD citizenship at the time of birth. (But he could have lost it later.)

If they were married, there was no passage of citizenship because Stanley Ann did meet the five year requirement.

ET, ya think?

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/obamas-righteous-wind-claim-ov.html#comment-162602

How does one shut off GORDO ??

..or did not?

Pogo,
Agree with you and xr as to intent of Berg and others.
I was curious about marriage b/c all I found was in relation to their divorce. Actually if that info regarding citizenships rules is at all near correct (?) then if it was an out-of -wedlock birth it would appear to be the least problematic for him.

Anyway, that's my walk on the wildside today. :-)

LOL Pogo... It's starting to make my skin crawl... I think we should seriously call for an intervention... and on that note, I am out of here for the night... Rest well... and for those who haven't been taking their meds, please start now.

Oh yeah a great quote from a friend

"All Republicans, religious zeaolts, and racists who are prepared to die for their country, please do that now. "

and another: "Ex-Gay? Lonely? It's election time. Be our bitch. www.republicanparty.com"

and following this thread, my final contribution:

"Get real! Like Jesus would ever own a gun and Vote Republican"

TTFN

ET- It seems to me that you focus on Gordo often and you have voiced the above opinion multiple times . As you don't seem to find it at all amusing perhaps you could just overlook his posts. It doesn't look like he is going to stop anytime soon.. Not always here but I haven't seen him be rude or make any personal swipes at you.

Rez, don't get drawn into arguing citizenship - without proof that Obama was born abroad or a chance to review the statute, neither of which have been provided, it can't beproperly analyzed and there's nothing more than pissing in the wind going on. There is a U.S.Code cite to the requirementsand likely a companion C.F.R. cite that Siskind Sussman wants you to pay them to get. Gordo is raising the issue, let him provide the cite.

Oldseahag you are obviously missing the point. If you want to be a GORDO enabler because you also dislike Obama or for whatever reason, be my guest. If you read more carefully you will see others are just as critical. I think every little conspiracy theory he is parroting is rude...

and the merry-go-round continues...

Who and what is an Enabler?

"An enabler, is a person who by their actions make it easier for an addict to continue their self-destructive behavior by criticizing or rescuing. The term codependency refers to a relationship where one or both parties enable the other to act in certain maladaptive ways. Many times, the act of the enabler satisfies a need for the codependent person because his or her actions foster a need from the other person or persons in the relationship."

"If they were not married, he HAD citizenship at the time of birth."

G Man, I think Pogo whacked that mole pretty damn good last thread.:-)

and the most important point of Enabling:

"Any time you assist/allow another person to continue in their unproductive/unhealthy/addictive behavior, whether actively or passively, you are enabling. Even when you say nothing you are enabling the behavior to continue. Sometimes you say nothing out of fear, fear of reprisal, fear of the other person hurting, hating, not liking you; or fear of butting in where you don’t think you belong. Perhaps even fear of being hit or worse."

bye, now.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/obamas-righteous-wind-claim-ov.html#comment-162617

Now Now Rez, we are not supposed to respond or react to the G-man's post. It's discourteous!

Is it my imagination or is McCain sort of barking at Palin and giving her dirty looks.

Everything about the way he gestures her to go ahead of him on stage or looks at her when she is talking is someone who really, really wants to chew her out.

There is no compelling reason for the plaintiff in a civil action to refuse to talk about the case. Plaintiffs routinely whine about their cases to everyone, including the Times, 60 Minutes, star magazine, and faux news. This is nonsense.

"I've got 3 teenage boys...all athletes so I've gotten to know the specialists well...:) "

OMG, Jax! Having spent plenty of time in ER with my football playing son, I sympathize. Luckily, he was well insured through both his father and a school policy taken out on all players.

xrep

I've always thought there should be an award named after Hruska so many who deserve it!

"Hruska is best remembered in American political history for a 1970 speech he made to the Senate urging them to confirm the nomination of G. Harrold Carswell to the Supreme Court. Responding to criticism that Carswell had been a mediocre judge, Hruska claimed that:

"Even if he were mediocre, there are a lot of mediocre judges and people and lawyers. They are entitled to a little representation, aren't they, and a little chance? We can't have all Brandeises, Frankfurters and Cardozos."[1]

This speech was criticized by many, and Carswell was eventually defeated."

No, I haven't missed the point. There is a difference between one promoting a theory which may personally offend you and your responses which you take to a personal level and use name calling You do seem to be the most vocal critic of late.

ET- I was just trying to assist you with your own unproductive behavior.

pogo----------------

Do you know what those updates were about? Probably not. It's about Blog/Netcast wars. Ed Hale is stirring up things within some PUMA groups. He is faking e-mails, fabricating posts and threating a lawsuit against Phil Berg about something I might get into later.
---------------------------------------
SoetorObama is using the legal system to keep his "hidden" past a secret. Why? Because the documents would show that he is Constitutionally ineligible for the office of POTUS.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/obamas-righteous-wind-claim-ov.html#comment-162599

It may seem over the top, but the constraints of security and time on campaign schedule may have made other options impractical. The Secret Service can be very adamant when they are pushed for time.

It used to be really aggravating getting chased out of the Chamber of Commerce just because the President decided to use it for a speaking venue on short notice.

Ms Cracker,

Thank you for the correction. I bow to your authority.

Hruska must have been a guest on the Karl and Everett show and re-iterated his dimwitticism, or perhaps, Mundt quoted him.

What do you suppose was up with his reference to Brandeis, Cardozo, & Franfurter ? Why did he not add Goldberg and Fortas ? Was it too impolitic and untimely to recognize their superiority, too ?

When republicans whine about trial lawyers, why don't they mention Phil Berg ?

I meant, Siskind Sussman, and Phil Berg ?

"G Man, I think Pogo whacked that mole pretty damn good last thread.:-)"

I wonder if there's a market for a game called Whack-An-Ass, with little figures of Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, et al.

"Why did he not add Goldberg and Fortas"

Who knows what was going on in Senator Hruska's head?

I see Bloomberg got an waiver from NY City Council so he can run again. I'm not sure how I feel about this.

Righteous was used by Obama in the sense of being right, with attitude. I think columnists are doing what they can to create fear, regardless of how far-fetched their interpretation of events and statements. Remember "putting lipstick on a pig"?

Patsi

I can see it now, little balloon characters. You wack them on the ass and their eyes bulge.
We should have come up with this in time for the convention. Would have made a fortune.
It would be a great party game for KGC's Goodby Dubya party.

Jack

Okay -- I have a question about citizenship. My daughter was born to American citizens, military serving in Germany, in a German hospital. She's an American citizen.

But what if I had been single, pregnant and living as an American citizen (maybe a student) in Europe and had given birth. Why wouldn't my child be an American citizen?

My point: if an immigrant can come here and have a so-called anchor baby -- and that child is a US citizen, why shouldn't I -- as a natural born US citizen -- have the right to have my baby anywhere I wanted and the child still be a citizen?

"it's better to be "on God's side" instead of thinking God is on yoursI"

Craig, Am I comprehending your meaning correctly: that when you say the above, you're saying it's fine to talk to God, but when he starts talking to you (in the way George W. thinks he did, as in whatever I do is right and good because God told me and chose me to do it) then you've got a problem. Does that voice of God he hears say he's nuts or does God talk to him because he's His chosen one (in his own mind)?.

"and don't forget, xrepublican, Jesus was a community organizer"

And you didn't make me feel any better Craig when you threw in that last statement. :)

Bush: God Told Me to Invade Iraq
President 'revealed reasons for war in private meeting'
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/1007-03.htm

"We should have come up with this in time for the convention. Would have made a fortune."

Jack -- I believe you and I and Pogo have come up with several money making ideas. We should have started a company. Cheap legal work since Pogo's a lawyer, too....

Patsi

She would be an American citizen.

Depending on German law at the time, she might be able to claim German citizenship at some point for herself as well.

There have been a lot of changes in European citizenship laws of late due to illegal immigration. Citizenship is no longer quite as automatic. for immigrants depending on conditions.

Patsi,

The link Gordo posted has a good reply to your question. At least the "cliff notes" version. ;-) From what I read it mostly depends on the child's date of birth and you US residency.

http://www.visalaw.com/05jan1/2jan105.html

GORDO sure is working hard to make Joe Biden president.

There is no Kenyan BC before the US courts. However, there is a BC in Oahu County records in Honolulu, HI.

There is no real case. There was never a real case. There is only a slap suit filing to make noise, energize rightwing naifs, and attract dollars. That's all there ever was and all that ever will be.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/obamas-righteous-wind-claim-ov.html#comment-162540

Flatus, I notice you posted the Convention speech too.

Obama and His Righteous Wind
December 9th, 2007
"Notice his explanation for his rise in the polls.......We’ve got a righteous wind in our backs. I can feel it.”
http://www.poligazette.com/2007/12/09/obama-and-his-righteous-wind/

Love the Matthews remark that the $150,000 clothes for Palin cost more than Joe the Plumber's mortgage.

If intelligent design and creation theory belong in science classes, shouldn't square (flat) earth theory be taught in geography classes ? Shouldn't students get to learn geography from a 'globe' that has the Biblical "4 corners" ?

These namby-pamby republican halfway measures are ruining education. Bring God's 4 Corners back into America's classrooms !!!

Ezekial 46 : 22

xr

http://bible.cc/ezekiel/46-22.htm

sigh... righteous song!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8p2AI92y7ec

Isaiah 41:2

or

Proverbs 10:25

"At least the "cliff notes" version. ;-) From what I read it mostly depends on the child's date of birth and you US residency."

Thanks Rez -- I'm glad to know that if I HAD been a single mom my daughter would still have citizenship....also, after reading that, I don't know why anyone cares where Obama was born in the first place....

nice one, Jack

better yet

Isaiah 64:6

I don't know why anyone cares where Obama was born in the first place....

Posted by: Patsi Author Profile Page | October 23, 2008 6:22 PM

It's this thing called the U.S. Constitution. Maybe you've heard of it. Not that anyone gives a fuck about the Constitution anymore.

I don't even think McCain is eligible, FWIW

"If intelligent design and creation theory belong in science classes, shouldn't square (flat) earth theory be taught in geography classes ? Shouldn't students get to learn geography from a 'globe' that has the Biblical "4 corners" ? "

Well, call me a right wing nut if you like -- but I believe ALL that shit should be taught in cultural history classes. Comparative religious and scientific culture. I wanted my children to know what all is out there floating around, and why people believe the way they do.

Of course with NCLB nobody gives a damn about history classes.

"I don't even think McCain is eligible, FWIW"

BS -- if that's the standard then you could never send military families out of the US.

What I said, champ, is that if I could have had a child pout of the US, and that child would be a US citizen -- why would Obama be any different?

I hate even being in on this Gordo weirdness...but the fact remains, his mother was a US citizen. She'd been in the US prior to his birth no matter where the hell he was born. END OF STORY.

Um.. i just think religion belongs in religion class, and science belongs in science class. --And anyone who thinks human beings and dinosaurs shared the earth is no scientist.

Jack,

Obama was born to the West. :-)

Hey G Man,
Did you catch this little caveat at the end of the source you cite.

"While these are general rules, Congress has continually amended and revised many laws relating to citizenship, particularly those dealing with the requirements for retention of citizenship." :-)

I almost feel sorry for both the pundits and the McCain spinners. They want a close contest - one for ratings and the other for possible future employment.

Unfortunately for them, McCain is losing faster than they can spin.

The American public just never wants to see the back of Bush as fast as possible and to never hear the words "MY Friends" "Straight Talk" or "Maverick" ever again.

Patsi -------------------------

"I hate even being in on this Gordo weirdness...but the fact remains, his mother was a US citizen. She'd been in the US prior to his birth no matter where the hell he was born. END OF STORY"

WRONG !!!

Have you CAREFULLY read the citizenship laws?

http://www.visalaw.com/05jan1/2jan105.html

------------------------------------

Phil Berg on Michael Savage - NOW

Tylenol,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf1fnO0kvVw

"Um.. i just think religion belongs in religion class, and science belongs in science class. --And anyone who thinks human beings and dinosaurs shared the earth is no scientist."

It ALL belongs in cultural history classes. And it should go without saying that the scientific theories belong in science. But if we don't educate children on what theories are out there and where they came from, we'll have a populace even dumber than we have now. Maybe I shouldn't say dumb, but ignorant.

Kids who are raised with no understanding of other beliefs and where they come from are the very kind that end up in cults and off-the-wall head trips.

It's called education for a reason.

Actually because of McCain's birth in the canal zone, Congress formalized what had always been understood by tradition and never questioned on documentation. All children born to American Service people stationed abroad are U. S. citizens.

"Well, call me a right wing nut if you like "

By the way, I was being sardonic with that comment....

Oops. Should have typed "born legitimately". America is one of the few countries that does not recognize illegitimate children fathered by American soldiers. Caused lots of problems in Japan and Korea among other places.

Mother's babies still get a pass. Where they come from is never in doubt. :-) Of course this is why the relligion of the mother is so important to many faiths.

Sorry Gordo. You are wrong. I read your sources. You are flat wrong.

Craig - I also don't like Obama's use of the phrase
"righteous wind" at all. I would give it a 6.5 as I have always disliked his sermonizing speeches, and obviously some others agree.

I understand the various interpretations possible for the word "righteous" and why still others see nothing wrong with it.

But it will certainly mean a religious statement to some who hear it and will see it as a promise of his religious conviction and will be thrilled and contented. Of course, it is pandering.

Still, he said it and many here think we're wrong about how we take it. I just had to speak up and speak out.
I hate that kind of talk and am glad I didn't hear it.

ET - yes, I looked at your Christmas picture. You two are both very nice-looking dudes, and your smile is magnificent!

"Mother's babies still get a pass. Where they come from is never in doubt. :-) "

Ha -- Jamie -- actually, mine was. In the German hospital where my daughter was born, my roommate was a young Native American, married to a hispanic soldier. We had babies the same night, she had a boy and I had a girl. The next morning they brought the babies in and without even checking, handed her my daughter, and me her son.

The two of us burst out laughing -- because my daughter was SO dark skinned and black haired, high cheekbones -- while her son looked kind of -- oh, maybe Italian.

Patsi ---------------------

Are you talking about married or unmarried parents?

There are different laws.

Read again - start at the beginning - the laws have changed -- have to pick the proper time period.

Another vote for Corey's prediction

The Goldwaters Endorse Obama
By: bmaz Thursday October 23, 2008 2:40 pm

http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/23/the-goldwaters-endorse-obama/#comments

I read the whole thing, Gordo. Obama would fit into the same time frame as my daughter. And whether the mother is married or unmarried wouldn't have applied in Obama's mother's case. End of story.

By the way, anyone heard anything about why Schwarzenegger is being so quiet about Prop 8? I thought he claimed he was a friend to gays....

Patsi-----------------

WRONG !!!

The FIVE YEAR rule for married parents.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/obamas-righteous-wind-claim-ov.html#comment-162480

"Michael Moore will be Larry's sole guest for the majority of the hour. Michael will be interviewed live on location with a group of plumbers who support Barack Obama.

Don't miss Mike with "Plumbers for Obama" on Larry King Live tonight (Thursday, October 23rd) at 9:00 PM ET/6:00 PM PT on CNN (replay at midnight ET/9:00 PM PT and 3:00 AM ET/midnight PT).

Tune in tonight and plumb the vote on November 4th."

tt

Tiptoe

Asilomar got cancelled. We are waiting to hear from Craig once he has made his publisher happy for available dates next year.

Anyone who has location suggestions speak up.

I agree Craig. Back in 2000 after voting I prayed for the best man for our country to win the election. I never have or will do that again.

Last night I was watching AC 360 waiting for Anderson's 10 most wanted list where he is listing those who have contributed to our financial crisis. A infomercial came on about Obama. I thought it was just a regular commercial until it went on and on. I finally checked the channel and it was titled Obama, channel 73. It wasn't an accident because I don't even have that channel listed on my Dish Network favorites, the channels start at 101. I missed the part of Anderson's program I was waiting for.

That really pisses me off when my satelitte starts manipulating me. I wonder how Obama pulled that off.

Schwarzenegger and Prop 8

http://www.advocate.com/news_detail_ektid63716.asp

"When one parent was a US citizen and the other a foreign national, the US citizen parent must have resided in the US for a total of 10 years prior to the birth of the child, with five of the years after the age of 14. "

That rule would not apply to Obama's mother because of her age. She was not old enough to have spent 5 years in the US prior to giving birth -- it would have been waved as a technicality. It would be discriminating against an American citizen because of her age. I'm not even a lawyer, but I could take that BS to court.

You are wrong.

Thanks for the link, Jamie -- I never trust Arnold...

Schwarzenegger is running for the senate so he is being very careful.

I sense a righteous 538-0 blowout on November 4th. I will be sitting back that night eating my birthday sundae and telling everyone here (Obama win predictors) "I told you so!"

Patsi-----------------

"She was not old enough to have spent 5 years in the US prior to giving birth ..."

She was almost 19 at the time of his birth.

What are talking about? She was old enough.

careful patsi u r starting to nibble at the bait-------look what it has done to pogo

Happy Dance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=466FSE9Gouk

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/obamas-righteous-wind-claim-ov.html#comment-162638
Chloe
I just got in from seeing the movie "W".What a timely link for me.If the movie accurately depicts the last 8 years,Oh damn how sad!!! I feel so bad for our country and the world!! Yet another example of one's religion used to condone such horrific acts....The Bush Presidency,just plain sad for all....

Patsi---------------

Phil Berg (on Michael Savage) just now explained the citizenship law to a caller. You are wrong.

Gordo

That age regulation refers to someone who has been naturalized as a citizen. His mother was born in Kansas. She was a citizen from birth. Can't take it away from her.

As everyone keeps telling you. You're WRONG

Corey,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1_kgNp9oQg

"careful patsi u r starting to nibble at the bait-------look what it has done to pogo"

You're right, solar....I haven't been paying much attention to what Gordo says because my issues about Obama have to do with telecom connections and other things.

Now that I looked it over, I just know that Gordo is dead wrong.

(And I didn't care about the birth stuff one way or the other in the first place, having given birth to a child overseas.)

Mayberry is voting for Obama

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/cc65ed650d

Thanks Jamie.

tt

XR-----almost forgot, thank you for your 4: 11 post, you filled in lots of holes for me. i have another mystery for you

Why are there no mouse flavored cat food?

Patsi ----------------

You know that you are wrong. Anyone can misread this legal "stuff".
---------------
"And I didn't care about the birth stuff one way or the other ..."

Also appears that you don't care about the Constitution.

Gordo

We care about the Constitution. It just hasn't been violated in any way by the Obama candidacy.

You Are Wrong.

whacka mole?
rez, patsi, pogo et al, that just might be the key to gordo's mystery.
is it possible that the "no such agency" and the company used our plucky little mom-to-be in the super secret operation e pluribus unum, putting the new born babe under deep, deep, double deep cover with a variety of bcs, colbs, passports, citizenships and names as needed. his handlers had handlers and they were handled by someone called hal. why did dulles leave the cia in '41 (birth year) and turner in '81 (pakistan trip etc)? casey might have dabbled during those hidden years. and was it just coincidence that tenet had to quit the company in '04 (ascension to senate). did they know too much and tried to stop it. did hal get them fired. is the mole still in the hole. only hal knows.

How about some more Andy Griffith?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvKgnkIN8C8

BTW,

Since she is black, 12 YO, pregnant and a runaway, you probably won't see this on the news, but
Lakeesha Tekenya Wooten (Durham NC) is missing.

Details available at

http://electronicvillage.blogspot.com%2F2008%2F10%2Flakeesha-alert-tekenya-wooten-durham-nc.html

Try this link again:

http://electronicvillage.blogspot.com/2008/10/lakeesha-alert-tekenya-wooten-durham-nc.html

Patd

My friend, there are some questions one never asks. They know where you are, we will miss you.
What kind of flowers do you like? A spray or a wreath?

Jack

for some of you journalists and professional bloggers, the fl sup st seems to have eased things a bit today in preventing suits against you for casting people in a "false light" (writing true but misleading stuff about folks in your blogs/articles). here's a short blurb on it.
http://www.gainesville.com/article/20081023/NEWS/810230297/1034?Title=Florida_Supreme_Court_rejects__false_light__lawsuits

Jamie--------------------

"It just hasn't been violated in any way by the Obama candidacy."

He is using the legal system to keep his "hidden" past a secret. The documents would show that he is not eligible for the office of POTUS. That's why he will not make the documents public.

SoetorObama did post an altered COLB image. Where is the hardcopy COLB?

Jamie

Isaiah 41:2

It depends on the way you look and who is doing the summoning. To say more would be perilous.

Jack

Gordo

Enjoy your delusion. It's not dangerous enough to get you medicated against your will.

jack, but now you know too....... no escape, no place to hide.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKuQXGrFSQ0

Okay that was funny

A pleading nation with blood streaming from its ears.

NO MORE JOE THE PLUMBER

Patd et al conspiracy know it alls ...beware of black cars

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14eUKogPF7s

Jack

If the world is round, he will always be to the east of something.

would you believe birth year '61 (not '41)?
sorry about that
hard to see the keyboard while hiding in the basement in a closet

loved that program!
thanks jamie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29JewlGsYxs&feature=related

Jamie --------------

He is hiding the documents because he has plenty to hide.

In which Hawaiian hospital was he born? Two have been named: Queens Medical Center and Kapiolani Medical Center. Or was he really born at Coast Hospital in Mombasa, Kenya?

Why does he not show the Hawaiian hospital records? Because they do not exist?

maybe he was born in the backseat of a Greyhound bus rollin' down highway 41........

Gordo

I was born at Children's Hospital in Los Angeles. If you ask the powers that be they would come back with an answer of Los Angeles County as the old hospital became part of a medical complex with units all over the city.

But that's okay. You are entertained by your delusion and we are entertained by refuting your delusion. Everybody's happy.

lol@ sturge

One thing about gordo is he never calls anybody a Nazi. Thankgod for small favors.

But Gordo, you do realise that if you are right then the Oboma people will have to hunt you down and silence you. After all this isn't some little blog that nobody reads.

Jack

Oliver Hardy: Where were you born?

Stan Laurel: I don't know. I was too young to remember.

You got it Jamie.

from wiki:

Queen Kapiʻolani established the Kapiʻolani Maternity Home, where Hawaiian mothers could receive care, as well as their newborn babies. It survives today as the Kapiʻolani Medical Center from wiki

I just got an e-mail from the NFL.

The subject: Want to see an NFL with Alyssa Milano?

Another mole whacked! lol

Pardon my typo. The subject was:

Want to see an NFL game with Alyssa Milano?

Of course if Gordo wants to investigate on his own, he can walk between the two institution buildings. It's less than two miles.

1. Start at 1301 PUNCHBOWL ST, HONOLULU going toward MILLER ST - go 0.1 mi
2. Bear RIGHT on MILLER ST - go < 0.1 mi
3. Bear RIGHT on S VINEYARD BLVD(HI-98 E) - go < 0.1 mi
4. Take LEFT ramp onto I-H1 E toward WAIKIKI - go 1.2 mi
5. Take exit #23/PUNAHOU ST/WAIKIKI/MANOA - go 0.2 mi
6. Turn RIGHT on PUNAHOU ST - go < 0.1 mi
7. Arrive at 1319 PUNAHOU ST, HONOLULU, on the LEFT

I know a guy who was born in a motel room in Craig, Colorado, while his mom was on break from a house gig........when he was nine years old he appeared on a television show with Juliet Prowse....

Jamie

My nephew who is now chefing in NYC was born in the front seat of a chevy chevette at a no name intersection of 2 gravel roads by the Wisdom place. In a thunderstorm where it was raining so hard that you couldn't see to drive.
When people ask my sister what she did at the time she said "well I picked him up, what else could I do.

He is basically a good kid but things always seems to happen to him.
Jack

Point being: Good news for Obama travels fast here.

Jack

There is a new semi amusing sit com about that kind of person called "Worst Week".

The "everything happens to me" joke wears a little thin despite the good cast.

Argggg

Tampa Bay 4 - 0

Those wackly Alaskans

A federal judge on Thursday warned jurors at Sen. Ted Stevens' corruption trial to be courteous and respectful of each other after the panel's leader described "violent outbursts" that threatened to derail final deliberations. Another juror apparently left town to tend to a sick relative.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/10/21/national/w001246D87.DTL&tsp=1

Too many queens over there lol

No wonder the tribes here have fought their designation as Native American.

IOW we have Princesses here. It wouldn't work very good.
(just so everyone doesn't get confused by my humor)

Where are the hospital records? What is so "top secret" about hospital records showing that he was born in Hawaii? They don't exist?

Sometimes I think You Tube has everything ...

Matt Dennis singing Matt Dennis

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq1E1gbu6ss

Gordo,

Aren't there marriage and divorce records in HI. These are all public docs and should be easily accessed. The divorce records would show minor children, support if any, etc.
Maybe it's more convenient to keep it all shrouded in mystery for obvious reasons.

Gordo

Nothing top secret, just none of your business. It's called patient confidentiality. You have the statement he was born there. No one has come forward to deny that. A certified copy has been posted. No one has any right to anything more.

It's some nut case trying to become famous and make money by making a nuisance out of himself. Judges throw out cases like that every day of the week. This one will be no different.

You are entertaining in a sort of quixotic way

Rez,

Most birth, marriage, divorce, and death records are indexed in counties, but many states have started limiting access due to identity theft. The laws vary from state to state.

Makes sense.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/obamas-righteous-wind-claim-ov.html#comment-162768

This report provides an evaluation of the two leading candidates for president, Senators McCain and Obama, on ten issues of major concern to women.

McCain scores a D, while Obama gets a B

http://www.epgwi.org/default.htm

Patd - love the image of you typing away while hiding in the basement in a closet.

I'm not surprised re McClellan. The look he gave W when he made his comment about the two of them sitting on the porch together when they're old - it was obvious McClellan was astounded. That leads me to believe he had been very open re his feelings and W knew he how upset he was, and trying to keep the truth out of it. Maybe they had hoped McClellan wouldn't let it all out - HA!

I'm glad McClellan has been so open - a lesson for the future, setting a precedent. Keeping relatively harmless secrets might be okay, but McClellan was used to lie to the people, and I am a firm believer that one shouldn't accept being used to hurt others.

The only student I ever kicked out of class was a boy who used me to hurt another in a fight, and I told the
assistant principal in front of half the school I wanted that boy out of my class. Actually, I was ready to walk off the job at that moment if the man had disagreed with me. I can still feel the anger.

Jamie--------------

You are as low-information on this subject as EuroTom. Remember how you thought Stanley Ann rushed back to Hawaii to give birth to his half-sister? We have his word and an image of a COLB on some websites. Why not make the hardcopy of the COLB public? I understand your inability to comprehend what is going on here -- you have been conditioned to believe only the MSM.

There is no mechanism in place to check on credentials -- hard to believe, but it's a fact. He is using the legal system to keep his "hidden" past a secret. Why? Because he is not Constitutionally eligible to be POTUS.

Gordo

Did it ever occur to you that even if you were right. No one cares. There is a movement to amend the Constitution to change that requirement. I'm opposed to it, but it does exist.

In any case. His grandfather was a citizen, his grandmother is a citizen. His mother was a citizen. Wherever in hell he was born, he is a citizen. It is simply of absolutely no importance. He will probably be an acceptable or better President.

I keep reading about these voting machine f**kups. It is especially worrisome when it happens in these battleground states.

Stuff it, Nazi.

Gordo-while you're jousting with windmills, check this out.
Bill=B(avarian) ill(uminati)
Gates=Geheime Amerikanische Tochtergenosssenschaft ser Erleuchteten Seher, the American illuminati lodge.
hmmm, what could it mean?

Oops, but I guess it dosen't matter 'cos he's not black.

Jamie,

If you don't mind, which way are you on Inituitive 1000?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Initiative_1000

Good Night All

Jamie------------

"No one cares."

Some people still care about the Constitution.

=======================

"His grandfather was a citizen, his grandmother is a citizen. His mother was a citizen. Wherever in hell he was born, he is a citizen."

WRONG AGAIN !!!

I can hardly believe you wrote that. How can you be so uninformed? Try reading the link. You are having as much trouble as Patsi with the citizenship laws.

http://www.visalaw.com/05jan1/2jan105.html

"While these are general rules, Congress has continually amended and revised many laws relating to citizenship, particularly those dealing with the requirements for retention of citizenship."

http://www.visalaw.com/05jan1/2jan105.html

The ABC’s of Immigration: Citizenship Rules for People Born Outside the United States

"The rules determining when such children are citizens are extremely detailed, and vary a great deal depending on when the child was born since the laws changed several times in the 20th century.

What are the rules for people born before May 24, 1934?

What are the rules for people born between May 24, 1934 and January 13, 1941?

What are the rules for people born between January 14, 1941 and December 23, 1952?

What are the rules for people born between December 23, 1952 and November 13, 1986?

What are the rules for people born on or after November 14, 1986?

http://www.visalaw.com/05jan1/2jan105.html

G Man,
Rules/laws change from time to time as my last post indicated

I started to write several things until I realized "What CAN you say?"

I sputtered in indignation if that counts.

Forty-four percent of the American population is convinced that Jesus will return to judge the living and the dead sometime in the next fifty years. According to the most common interpretation of biblical prophecy, Jesus will return only after things have gone horribly awry here on earth. It is, therefore, not an exaggeration to say that if the city of New York were suddenly replaced by a ball of fire, some significant percentage of the American population would see a silver lining in the subsequent mushroom cloud, as it would suggest to them that the best thing that is ever going to happen was about to happen—the return of Christ. It should be blindingly obvious that beliefs of this sort will do little to help us create a durable future for ourselves—socially, economically, environmentally, or geopolitically. Imagine the consequences if any significant component of the U.S. government actually believed that the world was about to end and that its ending would be glorious. The fact that nearly half of the American population apparently believes this, purely on the basis of religious dogma, should be considered a moral and intellectual emergency.

Rezdog-------

So?

SoetorObama was born on August 4, 1961 (maybe).

We have to go by the laws that apply.

SoetorObama wanted to make some changes.

Clue: Claire McCaskill

Enter Sarah Palin, the Evangelical.

He's 44. That means 1963

Bill Clinton on World Food Crisis

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-world/20081023/UN.UN.Food.Crisis/

Gordo,

I was pointing out what you source stated about the their own materials. "While these are general rules, Congress has continually amended and revised many laws relating to citizenship,"
iow, are you sure there have been no revisions to these rules/laws?

Craig----This is squeamish

Forty-four percent of the American population is convinced that Jesus will return to judge the living and the dead sometime in the next fifty years. According to the most common interpretation of biblical prophecy, Jesus will return only after things have gone horribly awry here on earth. It is, therefore, not an exaggeration to say that if the city of New York were suddenly replaced by a ball of fire, some significant percentage of the American population would see a silver lining in the subsequent mushroom cloud, as it would suggest to them that the best thing that is ever going to happen was about to happen—the return of Christ. It should be blindingly obvious that beliefs of this sort will do little to help us create a durable future for ourselves—socially, economically, environmentally, or geopolitically. Imagine the consequences if any significant component of the U.S. government actually believed that the world was about to end and that its ending would be glorious. The fact that nearly half of the American population apparently believes this, purely on the basis of religious dogma, should be considered a moral and intellectual emergency.

sorry, thought i hit the preview tab

nite all. :-)

Craig

There is an old saying

"When the Gods wish to punish us, they answer our prayers.

VJ Machiavelli
http://www.vjmachiavelli.blogspot.com

New Poll: Bachmann Fighting For Political Life

"The new numbers from SurveyUSA: Democratic candidate El Tinklenberg 47%, Bachmann 44%, and Independence Party candidate Bob Anderson 6%, with a ±4% margin of error." ......

I'm very glad to hear that about that woman.....Bachmann.

tt

This is just been one amazing week, today Allen Greenspan admitted under oath to congress, that the whole economic theory under pinning Republican thinking was "Flawed", and he, Cox, and some other bozo said Fannie and Freddie weren't the primary reason that the economy is melting like a Kit-Kat bar on a dashboard.

Let's go to the clip -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPKMDiaU1_A

GORDO -
Once upon a time I was amazed that the Catholic Church spend years debating how many angels could dance on the head of a pin. Now having seen you in action, it makes perfect sense, except the question now is :

How many pinheads can dance on the head of a pin?

Craig? Almost every President has invoked God in one way or another...Washington started it, Madison chimed in, even old US Grant...Lincoln...man...ALL of them! Just click here for a short sample:

http://www.christiansoldierscross.com/religious_presidential_quotes.htm

That's real responsible journalism, taking the quote, parsing it, and presenting half the story. Obama said, directly afterward, that there was still a lot of work to do and that people can't get complacent. Obviously you are one of those people who's bought into the tabloid journalism schtick.

Dex - Washington tended to use the word Providence rather than God, and once referred to Providence as She. He also wouldn't take communion, leaving the church before hand with Patsy Custis, and leaving Martha there to take communion.

Many of the founding fathers were thought to be atheists. There are many web sites re the founding fathers and religion - real eye-openers.

There is a good PBS documentary called "Desperate
Crossing", about the Mayflower folk, whcih goes into their motives for leaving England, basically government involvement with their church. The Founding Fathers didn't forget that.

" love the image of you typing away while hiding in the basement in a closet."

bethy, i'm in the basement in a closet in a box under some dirty clothes to be exact.... and quivering with fear. help!

Timmy- you may very well disagree with Craig's post but to question his integrity as a journalist? Tabloid journalism schtick? Where have you been living? Have enjoyed him for a number of years but it took this election to realize that he is in fact one of the last TRUE journalists still around.

OSH -- You forget that this season we Democrats have outdone ourselves in Rovian politics. We are all about personal destruction of anyone who vaguely criticizes our candidate. To the castle, minions! And bring your torches!

You're absolutely right Patsi, guess I was lost in a time warp!

NEW THREAD

Did the "church talk" of Martin Luther King Jr. scare you Craig?

http://www.mlkonline.net/promised.html

And then I got into Memphis. And some began to say that threats, or talk about the threats that were out. What would happen to me from some of our sick white brothers?

Well, I don't know what will happen now. We've got some difficult days ahead. But it doesn't matter with me now. Because I've been to the mountaintop. And I don't mind. Like anybody, I would like to live a long life. Longevity has its place. But I'm not concerned about that now. I just want to do God's will. And He's allowed me to go up to the mountain. And I've looked over. And I've seen the promised land. I may not get there with you. But I want you to know tonight, that we, as a people will get to the promised land. And I'm happy, tonight. I'm not worried about anything. I'm not fearing any man. Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord.