Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

8~P

Love the plunger, Craig!! ROTFL

Very cute graphic -- how clever of you to get it so quickly, Craig!

No game changer, and the polls will show McCain lost the debate. Once again he was out classed.

If not Treasury, then Labor?

was that plunger left over from the Giuliani campaign?

HRC live interview coming up on CNN.

The fighter pilot who downs 151 while lit.

Watching the CNN feed, women don't like Johnny, and men aren't that far behind.

McCain is selling-off like the Dow Jones on Intrade -

A 10 point swing, he's about to be in Lehman Brothers territory pretty soon.

http://www.intrade.com/

Craig, you're a fast one, you are. Bouncing around here and writing a new post and posting a graphic.

Good work.

tt

"how clever of you to get it so quickly, Craig!"

Exactly, Alicia!

Craig -- did Joe email that to you????

The split screen is a killer for McCain. When Obama was speaking his face was just plain creepy. Real Dr. Strangelove creepy.

no question about it, this debate was ... a change gamer

Tweety was right, what the hell was McCain doing pushing so hard on Roe v Wade. That's not going to win him moderates. He's still playing all to his base.

change gamer??? what???

Huh!

It was a game changer only if you think McCain is finally going down in well deserved flames for the fourth time except this time he doesn't have a plane to crash.

mccain can say he isn't bush, but this debate again proved that he's running the bush 2004 campaign, placing all his bets on base conservatives, hence the roe v. wade push.

for whom was it a guage chamber?

lushislinda, victory belongs to the one who best games change -- and that's clearly obama

Craig America is looking for change, not a rerun, hence McCain lost the debate.

ha sturg, or maybe it was a gag churner

Can I vote for "Joe the Plumber"? on November 4th? I mean, he might be the only candidate who can solve our financial crisis. After all, our economy IS in the toilet!

more wine, anyone?

LMDAO!!!

Royal Flush for Corey........lol

Gag Churner works for me

Does this mean that Obama is flushed with success?

maybe but McCain is plunging in the polls tomorrow.....

Craig, Am I misunderstanding, or are you saying what Champ always says?. 'It doesn't matter who wins, the same people will still be running the country.'

yep chloe, the shadow government has nothing to worry about

That's what i thought

For everyone talking about Obama "spreading wealth"
- remember that he is only talking about returning tax rates on people making over $250k to the rates we had during the - prosperous - Clinton years.

We should NOT let the Bush tax cuts - which even McCain opposed when they were first introduced - become the status quo.

both CNN and CBS spot polls say Obama won the debate. 3 for 3!

the shadow government instituted by Harry Truman.......one of gore vidal's pet points........vs the "cosmetic" government.

shadow government wins either way.

“Can I vote for "Joe the Plumber"? on November 4th? I mean, he might be the only candidate who can solve our financial crisis. After all, our economy IS in the toilet!“

Why not? He would beat Palin when it comes to brains and being able to think on his feet. I’d take a bet on Joe rather than Palin any day, but then I’ve already voted for Obama/Biden, our next president and vp. It’s as one of McCain’s own campaign people said today (in private) … McCain knew Palin was not a credible vice presidential pick and here he says “Country First”, but he went with her anyway. He was banking on more Harriett Christian’s out there voting for mere boobs.

I think the debate was close enough that the
winner was whoever you supportedgoing into this thing.

Obama was good on healthcare and abortion and McCain was good on arguing the GOP economic philosophy (while glossing over the fact it is fundamentally thes ame as what Bush supports).

McCain forced his hand on the Ayers stuff. You could tell he had some set lines that was going to get in no matter what the cost. The cost could be significant as those clips will probably be some of the most replayed clips from the debate.

now Joe the Plumber would give the shadow boys something to worry about

HRC on Fox

I believe that Obama won.

On another point the Nikkei will have its biggest loss since 1987.

Look for the market to tank again tomorrow. By the end of the week it will end up closing lower than it did last week.

In fact I believe that all the European and the Asian markets are way down or will be by morning.

Goodbye 401K's and Pension Plans.

Heck of a job Republicans.

So...does McCain not know the difference between autism and down syndrome? Or is there another Palin kid we don't know about? Am I the only one that's confused?

just curious, Anon, how does the Democratic Congress escape blame?

If Palin is so concerned about special needs children how come she cut the budge for Alaska's special Olympics by 50%?

I just reserved the domain name; joetheplumber.com lmao

good goin, rezdog -- you are our Capitalist of the Day

Fifty-three percent of the uncommitted voters surveyed identified Democratic nominee Barack Obama as the winner of tonight's debate. Twenty-two percent said Republican rival John McCain won. Twenty-four percent saw the debate as a draw.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/10/15/politics/horserace/entry4525171.shtml

So...does McCain not know the difference between autism and down syndrome?

How Will Sarah Palin Vaccinate Her Son Trig?
"For readers of the Age of Autism, this 4 month child is worth watching. Because trisomy 21 is not just the cause of Down's syndrome, it is also a genetic susceptibility factor for autism."
http://www.ageofautism.com/2008/09/how-will-sarah.html

Craig, all Dems are good and all Reublicans are bad. Haven't you been following along here?

Craig

While I agree with you about the "shadow" government, I'm not quite so cynical except that the "great they" always act from their own self interest.

Under Bush, things got out of hand and "they" have some repair work to do as they became too visible. You can see the strings, but If the strings become too obvious, the puppet show story loses its charm.

There is always a balance to be maintained between ruling class and those who fuel the profits and products. All wealth is built on labor. Destroy labor and you destroy wealth.

What is different at present is that there is a vast supply of labor and a limited amount of demand.
Plus the sheer size of the available labor pool is eating up the raw materials.

A good plague might be in order. Unlike past ages, war and famine aren't killing enough people fast enough.

Reublicans??? I meant, Republicans. LOL!

Craig...

The Democrats controlled the House and have the power by working across the aisle with real Moderate Republicans to get bills through.

In the Senate its a different story. A lot of bills got blocked because the Democrats did not have enough votes to block a filibuster.

The only bills they could get through were ones that they had to give in to the Republicans to pass, so any meaningful legislation was dead in the water.

And before the 2006 election the Republicans had total control of both houses so any bill that the Democrats wanted to put forward or block because they were harmful could not be done.

So therefore Heck of a job Republicans.

That's why the Democrats need a close to 60 seat advantage. There are some Republicans who do want to put America first and with a close to filibuster majority the Democrats will be able to pass bills that help America that they can not do now.

Wasn't Joe the Plumber on WWE? My friends once saw a fighter at a toughman competition named "Larry the Landlord".

good thoughts, jamie. but all i can say is that if obama as president challenges the establishment it will be the first time in his whole life that he has done so. and no, i don't count challenging the clintons as proof he's a change agent.

I agree that McCain lost this debate. There was really no way to win for him. No good stratigy was left. Bush did in the Republican party, even though I don't see McCain as a typical Republican.

I still don't think it is right to make fun of McCain's service to our country. Nothing funny about going down in a plane and spending years in a POW camp while in service to our country. I respect those who have the courage to service our country.

I have been a life long Dem but it has been sad to see that what I used to so hate about Republicans I now see in the Democrats. I still don't feel comfortable with Obama. I will pray that he does turn out to be a good leader for our troubled country. His connections with questionable people, why he needed some of them and how he managed to dodge any good explanations still bother me.

I still don't like the idea of spreading my money around. How can we encourage people to make something of themselves if we all share. Everyday in my job I see lots of people who demand handouts and they don't feel the least shame about it.

"Joe the Plumber" could "spread the wealth", by lowering his rates, to fix my sink...HAHA!!

And let me add one more thing.

There are also some Democrats that are also to blame for the problems we as a Nation now face.

There is blame on both sides, however the biggest portion of blame goes to the Republicans.

I heard some GOP guys saying that this election is now about Joe the Plumber.

So the Republicans have decided that they are no longer the party of the rich . . . they are the party of the upper middle class.

Craig, you're walking on shakey ground here. LOL!

understood, anon. well done. but i remain a cynic. a broken-hearted idealist, as i define the word

"I still don't think it is right to make fun of McCain's service to our country. "

Hear Hear! Carol

Goodnight.

ha, corey, shaky ground is what keeps me awake

I guess the debate drink of choice was Liquid Plumber?

ct

I simply do not buy the argument that people are going to stop trying to climb the ladder if taxes are increased 2-3% on people making more than $250K.

People are always going to try to make more money.

Just got back from the Bob Dole-George McGovern forum at the World Food Prize here in Des Moines. Dole and McGovern are being honored for their bipartisan leadership on feeding at risk children. It was Dole and McGovern that authored the original student lunch program, the WIC program, among other legislation. McGovern is also being honored for championing the formation of the UN's World Food Program.

Doesn't look like I missed anything spectacular at the debate...

Bob Dole was in rare form tonight...He and McGovern came onto the stage and immediately began by suggesting to the crowd (about 600) that the McGovern supporters should move to the left side of the room, and wanted the Dole supporters to move to the right side.

He then said (almost as an aside) "Oh yeah, it's not January, is it? (in a reference to how an Iowa caucus is conducted).

He then turned to McGovern and said, "Doesn't really make any difference, does it George? We both lost!"

He also mentioned that this was about his 400th trip to Iowa, and that he knew he'd been here too many times when the Iowa Department of Revenue wanted him to start filing Iowa income taxes...

At once point in the forum, he said he thought the government would come to a complete stop when he was "asked" to leave government in 1995. To which McGovern quipped, "Things haven't been running so smoothly since then, have they Bob?"

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/joe-the-plumber-wins-debate.html#comment-159622

People who resist change might be happy about that if they believed it...as it is, they can't be convinced Obama won't remove the words "In God We Trust" from the currency.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/joe-the-plumber-wins-debate.html#comment-159623

Carol, I agree with all the rest of your post too. Good post.

nite.

BTW, George Bush made a 3 hour tour of West Michigan today. Had a meeting with business leaders at a cafe and then went to a fundraiser at the home of Richard Devos.

Very cute graphic -- how clever of you to get it so quickly, Craig!

Posted by: Divalicias Author Profile Page | October 15, 2008 10:34 PM

Left over from the Rudee "the Plunger" campaign...
a hat tip to Bear

I know I said I was going to bed, but I did want to add something.

I will more than likely being voting for a Republican in a race here. Now why would I do that since I think and believe that the Party is as evil and vile as I have stated many times.

Well the Democrat I will be voting against I believe to be corrupt and should be in jail. He beat a rap through technicalities and I don't want to see him back in office.

Now whether or not he will be beat is another question. If there is another or better choice in this one race than I may take the third option and put my vote on that person.

However at this time it looks like it very well may be a Republican. I'm making my decision based on who I feel is the person who will put Country and Constitution first and not Party.

This is the way a person should vote. Base on love of Country and Constitution and not blindly follow Party first.

Now goodnight.

It's 5:30 am here, about to go to work, and I have really enjoyed reading the ongoing debate comments! I have chuckled a lot and realized why I like the folks here so much.

Alas, or "helaas" (as they say in Dutch) Craig is spot on with the fact that both parties are corporate parties. They are both capitalist and have followed the post war equation of "expansion abroad + growth at home = unified interests". The destruction of American unions occurred after the loss of Vietnam and American capital saw the threat of no longer being able to expand abroad, and from that point on the deal was dead and the full frontal assault on unions went into overdrive.

It's too bad that "socialist" has been used as an evil empire-like statement because a truly democratic system would be nice to at least include fairly in the mainstream political debate.

ct

I did not grow up with a lot of money. But through financial aid - I was able to go to college and law school and got a job at a big law firm in NYC.

-Based on the financial aid I received - I vowed to myself I would not complain about taxes.

-Based on the salary I used to make when I worked in NYC - I am confident that people making over $250K per year will not have their lives altered by a 2-3% tax increase.

Is this blog done? I just wanted to say Andrea Mitchell says the Joe the Plumber claim is bogus -- he, too, would benefit from Obama's tax strategy. Apparently, the CNN gang was all over this, and that was their conclusion. OK, maybe I'm a little gassed.

good morning, Tom!!

Like I said I was a poorly paid teacher for years. I finally got out of education and started making a little money for a change. I put the difference in my salary in investments that I lost and then I didn't get that last stimulus check because I made a little over the cut off. I am single and pay thru the ass in taxes and I didn't get poop. The slouch who managed to work a few weeks between drug binges did. What is fair about that? I am still mad. What will be the cut off for Obama's next check?

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/joe-the-plumber-wins-debate.html#comment-159636

dang, spike, wish i had been at your gig instead. sounds great

Nothing is "fair" when programs are based on statistics instead of individual cases. But that is the
nature of the beast.

The last cut off for that last check was $75 thousand not $250 thousand. That is not a lot of money.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/10/joe-the-plumber-wins-debate.html#comment-159642

well i'll be damned, even Anon is gonna vote for a Republican. glad to see a bit of bipartisanship around here. good night pal.

ct

At least your house is not getting foreclosed on.

And it is better to be complaining about taxes than it is to be complaining about getting laid off.

Craig...

Even I won't vote for a crook. If there honest and do what they say or at least try I will give them the benefit of the doubt.

And by the way the Republican is a woman.

Now goodnight.

YO ADRIAN!

Being gassed and all -- a nice Zinfandel, by the way, which is abundant here in Northern California -- I would like to address the big idea presented by our Dutch friend, EuroTom. I agree -- I think government can play a very effective role in people's lives, especially when we are all, now more than ever, facing a corporate world which pounds us into accepting brands, products and schools of thought which are not necessarily useful. The people need a weapon to fight this -- an effective entity which somehow computes our common needs and acts on our behalf. A part of me wishes we had the wherewithal to make unions, consumer groups, local government, house representatives, etc., act effectively on our behalf. But it ain't gonna happen. My representative, Dan Lungren, is an effective politician who will be re-elected even though he represents NOTHING I believe in. Seems to me a little socialist thought is just what the doctor is ordering right now. Not crazy, extremist stuff, but just a little back-up from the people who spend our money.

oh lordy, mike and eurotom, good thing ping pong isn't awake to take on your socialist call to arms. he'll be popping an artery in the AM -- capitalists are morning people, dont ya know.

HA! I'm just sayin'! That's all. Ping needs to change his diet.

but wait, eurotom is up early for your time zone, so i guess neo-socialists are early risers too, eh pal?

don't thinks so, mike, you'll never get ping to give up his milton friedman for breakfast

I paid off my house after 30 years, started at a 10% interest rate, and my house wouldn't be good enough for someone making a a quarter of what I make now.

The cost of my house was only twice my anual salary back then. I like my little house and haven't ever upgraded. I had to save 20% as a down payment. For years I couldn't even afford a washer or dryer. I had a little black and white TV I took from my family home.

Not only are people buying houses way too expensive but they are fully loaded with everything. The greed is not only on Wall Street it is on mainstreet and responsible people are paying for it all.

I don't think we should use tax dollars to pay off people who were just irresponsible.

Could be, Craig. I need to ponder the term neo-socialist. I think the current crop in Washington has kind of spoiled the "neo" descriptor.

Hey -- great fun tonight. Seriously. Thanks.

ct

I agree the culture of consumption and greed is not limited to Wall Street. It is the American way...

It's all over but the Colin Powell endorsement.

A couple interesting findings from the Intrade.com Presidential Futures Market trading as a result of the Third Presidential debate...

* During and immediately after the debate, McCain shares were trading at over twice the rate compared to Obama.

* Compared to the volitility seen during the first and second debates, the the price levels of trades held steady throughout the third debate.

*Immediately after the debate; however, there were large changes in positions, as Obama's price levels spiked while McCain's levels fell rapidly.

http://worldsofspike.blogspot.com

But Warren it is mainly the responsible people losing what they don't deserve to lose, house values, investments, etc. Great lesson for our younger generation. All those Obama supporters, most of whom are not even sure why they like him so much.

Hey ct -- I feel you, man. Thing is, shit happens. You lose your job, you start a business, things are looking up and then, poof! You are stuck with inventory that isn't selling, but the vendors still need the payment. And maybe your are paying for your kid in college, (un)lucky enough to have him in a great school with a $55k price tag annually. You do it because, well, you just have to because that's what it's all about - giving your kids the opportunities you didn't have, or did but screwed up. You hit the equity line hoping for the best. You bust your ass to generate the biz, but it isn't there. The bills mount, you start juggling like mad. Yeah, maybe the house was a little over your head back in 1996. But that's where the thinly-sliced reality starts getting in the way. BTW, they say you should only spend 33% of your income on your dwelling. When I bought mine, it was 25%. Now, with the equity line, it's embarrassing. Again, I'm just saying.

ct

People don't "deserve" to lose value in their homes anymore than they "deserved" the sudden 30-40% increase during the boom.

The markets are neither rational nor fair and ever since the word "crisis" has been thrown around I believe America is paying way to much attention to the market.

I think jobs and wages are far more important.

Well seems to be pretty much the conventional wisdom, McCain blew it!

Good night all, I will try to sleep and get some time away from my worries and frustrations.

NEW THREAD

great chat tonite, as Mike Farrace so perfectly puts it, "I'm just saying"

Mr. Crawford; 11:09 previous.................... I don't care who wins either, I don't think that either one could win a seat on the city council. I think you're totally correct about the "Shadow Gov't" having nothing to worry about............................................................

Chloe; 9:53 pm previous ................... "He's been answering the same questions for a year", you're right, but that's the way it is with robots, they only get upgraded programming once a year or so ............

Mike Farrace; 9:34 pm ..................... " personal insults at Obama rallies was patently untrue", as much as I hate to agree with you, you're right, you don't have to go to a rally, just take a trip to Trinity church..............................

Carol; 9:35 pm ............. "I don't want to give them what I've worked hard for", me either Carol, I believe freedom of choice lets me pick my own charities.......

Acorn IS a bum rap, never mind getting one. How about all the ballots that were voted on at same day registrations or all the ABSENTEES. And yes, it goes on with both sides but that doesn't make it right, and personally I like to be kissed before I'm screwed and this is very blatant and in your face, something that "change" is supposed to stop.....Oh, I forgot, he gets into office and then he does the right thing.........

anon-paranoid; 11:33 pm ......... "Country and Constitution first before Party", big KUDOS to you.....

Craig - I agree with you on the McCain bashing, and welcome that non-violent support for McCain. I can understand people supporting McCain even tho I won't vote for him. All the sneering at McCain is over-kill and a little tiresome, but if some want to indulge, their posts can be ignored - no sweat.

I also agree very emphatically with your statement that this is no real change. Large bodies of people with differing opinions don't move that quickly - it's evolutionary. One day, most conservative ideas will be history, and most liberal ideas will be considered conservative, and there will be a whole new group of liberal ideas - but a long long long time in the future.

The Top 50 Swing Voters: #27 - Joe The Plumber

#50 - Hockey Moms - Demographic Power Play
#47 - People with STDs - Burning for Change
#40 - Anonymous Sperm Donors - Swimming Against The Tide
#36 - Master Debaters - Everybody's Doing It
#29 - Nudists - Sticking To The Issues

http://swingvoters.wordpress.com

The fun is just beginning for Joe!

http://www.eisenstadtgroup.com/?s=Wurzelbacher

NEW THREAD