Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

First? everyone eating dinner?

Reposted from tail end of last thread:

Chloe, Rita and all other former Hillary supporters who consider Palin a "great choice," consider your opinion recorded, at least by me. You have a right to your opinion, and those of us who disagree with you and see no logic in your position other than basic contrarianism have a right to say so without being accused of "attacking" you. I think time -- on the order of just a few weeks -- will give us all the answer about the brilliance or stupidity of this action by McCain.

I'm sure you have indeed been unfairly "attacked" by some of the usual suspects here who unfairly attack anyone for anything. But that's hardly news, or hardly makes you special, and it hardly adds up to a mass stoning by the regulars. So please stop characterizing it that way, unless you choose to be more specific about who you think has unfairly attacked you.

Going forward, can we just discuss political realities here instead of turning everything into a re-enactment of the Hillary drama and relating it back to all that pain? That would be so helpful!

Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, the Republican vice-presidential nominee who revealed Monday that her 17-year-old daughter is pregnant, earlier this year used her line-item veto to slash funding for a state program benefiting teen mothers in need of a place to live.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/02/palin_slashed_funding_to_help.html?hpid=artslot

Chloe and pals...

Is she still such a great point?

Did you study her history as mayor? That her incompetence was so great a recall was in the works and an adminstrator needed to be hired to actually run the town for her?

The huge deficit she left the town to deal with DESPITE the millions she denies taking from the federal government?

Read on, dear ladies.

This ain't sexism.

This is holding a phony to account.

I heard Sean Hannity *grits teeth* say that Palin's daughter is engaged. Really? Overnight? Wasn't she the one holding the baby on stage? Now we know why there was that big blanket across her front.

Hannity went on about women's rights. Suddenly the Repubs are FOR women's rights? When the sky turns green.

I'm even hearing anti Palin rhetoric from the Repubs.

tt

You SHOULD vote for McCain IF

http://www.politicalcortex.com/story/2008/9/1/185552/4709

I'd be more willing to trust our Constitution and our government to Ron Paul Libertarians if they stopped dressing like Gilligan.

SKIPPER: What'd ya do with the Constitution, Little Buddy?

GILLIGAN: Well...I was reading it to pass the time while trying to contact rescuers on the Professors's Pedal Powered Coconut Phone, and this big gust of wind came up and just sort of blew it out into the lagoon.

(Skipper removes hat and begins beating Gilligan with it).

Maybe that it's happening to Republicans?

I'd say THAT is pretty positive.

Tiptoe

There was a side glance picture of her showing a definite pregnancy that even holding baby brother and blanket couldn't disguise. There was a story that all of the Palin children were flown in thinking they were meeting with their parents for an anniversary. Instead they end up in the bright lights and the subject of way too much conjecture.

I'm really sympathetic to Bristol. I can't imagine that she is any too happy to have her private situation the subject of the 24 hour news cycle.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/mccain-the-just-do-it-candidat.html#comment-138100

"Going forward, can we just discuss political realities here instead of turning everything into a re-enactment of the Hillary drama and relating it back to all that pain?" Lardass

Is that what you've been doing here Lard?. Discussing 'political' realities? Oh, stupid me. I thought most of what I was seeing was personal attacks and rumors.

I never said I was unfairly attacked (your words). I have never in my life felt like a victim. I simply stated exactly what happened.

I don't think I need to name names either Lard. It wasn't a blanket statement., since those who actually said those things know who they are. You might notice in my mention of Democrats, I said many Democrats (not all ) .

So you can all continue to discuss your so called 'political realities' and when I have something to say, you can just take Gordo's advice.:

" So just "shut your eyes" and "put your fingers in your ears" like a small child and everything will be just fine.

Jamie...

Talk about Dysfunction Junction.

What did the parents think? That maybe if the world didn't notice in Month 5, we wouldn't notice in Months 6, 7, 8 or 9 either? And that we'd just turn our heads and move on when the sitting Vice President became a grandmother?

Amateurs. Totally.

I got a real burning question tho:

If the Professor could make a radio out of two friggin coconuts, why couldn't he fix the boat??

I may actually enjoy seeing Reps twist in the wind this week. Rudy wont be able to save them. Dubya (I just found out) is being kept off primetime. This has been 8 years in the making and I'm going to ENJOY this convention. Lard - help me come up with a drinking game. Other than 'every time Rudy says "terrorists," -- that's too easy.

Some sound advice from Bob Herbert with regard to how to deal with Sarah Palin.

"Head for the High Road"

"The Democrats need to be careful about the intensity of their criticism of Sarah Palin."

"Ms Palin is a lot more appealing personally than the often testy guy at the top of her ticket. And the inescapable reality is that there are millions of voters who identify with her, and may be quick to resent attacks that they perceive as bullying or overkill."

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/02/opinion/02herbert.html?ref=opinion

Barack vs Barack

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYc7QsWLhrA

Chloe...

I didn't attack you personally at all, so I don't know what you're talking about in that last post. I like your presence here and read your posts, and have done so for many months.

I'm just befuddled by the absolute weirdness of Hillary supporters taking Palin under their wing and being so protective. It just makes no sense to me whatsoever.

If Palin were a male with exactly the same qualifications and "backstory", would you even be bothering to sympathize/defend this obviously botched choice? I somehow doubt it.

My concern is that even after Hillary herself asked her supporters to unify, many of her supporters seem to be grasping at any excuse not to.

--Lard

Tylenol --

A drinking game for the GOP convention?

How about..."Every time the Republicans nominate another winning ticket, you have to down another shot."

Oh. Wait. We wouldn't even get a buzz out of that!

Is Anita Bryant still alive? Can I vote for her?

Yes sir, they have really occupied the high ground on this one. Better yet, Obama plays the good cop while Mathews and Olberman, the NY Times .... all play the bad cop. A strategy with a big downside risk of failure.

The critics should have been careful not to overplay their hand. Palin is well on her way to being the underdog that Americans love to see succeed. She will be seen by many as a genuine person, contrast that with Obama who often is too nuanced to seem anything other than contrived.

Change is in the air, it just isn't what Obama expected.

"I'm sure you have indeed been unfairly "attacked" "

I didn't accuse you of attacking anyone Lard. The line I was talking about is the one from your post( that I just quoted).
And I've never talked that much about Misogyny. I only compared this to Hillary because that's what it actually felt like-like here we go again.

I have no problem with hearing the political reasons for which I should not like Sarah, but you know that the things I mentioned in my post had nothing to do with politics. They were 100% personal attacks.

Bowmanc...

Exactly right. That's EXACTLY what happened with Spiro Agnew and Dan Quayle.

They went down in history not as dumbass, bad choices but as lovable American originals...underdogs who EVERYONE was happy to see succeed!

Oh...and just to spread the love to both sides of the aisle...who can deny the tens of millions of Americans who still have portraits of lovable underdog Geraldine Ferraro hanging on their walls?

Face it. Palin is a dog of a pick. And no amount of spin will ever change that. And we haven't even gotten to the debates yet! I can't wait!

Chloe...I'm backing off now. We shouldn't be arguing about this. I think we both stated our cases to each other with the utmost civility.

I just hope you are able to vote against McCain-Palin come November. If not, I won't hold it against you.

Jamie, I agree. Too bad that's she the kid of a hypocrite. The Repubs never let up & offer no sympathy for Dem families. So I don't feel I should either.

I'm mad. I HATE hypocrisy.

If the Repubs would STFU while in their holier than thou, glass houses, dictating what I should do with my body & constantly trying to define who I am, and stop criticizing others, then so would I. STFU.

See, sex outside of marriage is OK with "them" if you're not married. But it's NOT ok with them if you're married.

Also they support BOTH pro-life AND the death penalty.

DUH!

tt

Lard,

Interesting examples, both Agnew & Quayle were on winning tickets.

And how can you even mention Ferraro, on a losing ticket but the liberal darling back in the day.

And why did you leave off Cheney? Are you OK with him? Just Kidding!

Wait! John Edwards who could forget him?

And what about Lieberman, Oh My God, No, NO, NO, NO, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

well, i dont much go around quoting Leviticus either, but you know what I mean....

BowmanC...

It's been nearly two news cycles now, yet no one is disputing the basic storyline that McCain desperately wanted someone like Lieberman or Ridge, but that righty GOP stalwarts wouldn't let him have his ice cream and made him eat spinach instead.

Can you cite another instance, post FDR, where the presumptive nominee actually expressed a personal preference and was denied so rudely and directly and (ultimately) publicly?

Maybe Eisenhower with Nixon?

Maybe Kennedy with LBJ?

Carter-Mondale?

Bush-Quayle?

I don't know. I realize those nominees weren't ecstatic about their running mates, but was the knowledge that party regulars rejected their desires ever as dramatic and public as this has been?

More from SoetorObama's "hidden" past.
=============================

Lou Dobbs discusses Obama - Ayers connection

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIJIyMyqAwQ

BowmanC...

Now go ahead and argue that Agnew or Quayle had anything to do with the success of those "winning tickets."

No way.

Palin may not sink McCain in a demonstrable way. But the whole idea that this drama is helping him on some sort of weird, subliminal level is just plain daffy.

Stockdale, why am I here? Discredited for saying something that seemed stupid but actually a very distinguished person.

From Wiki

Vice Admiral James Bond Stockdale (December 23, 1923–July 5, 2005) was one of the most highly decorated officers in the history of the United States Navy. Stockdale led aerial attacks from the carrier USS Ticonderoga (CVA 14) during the 1964 Gulf of Tonkin Incident. On his next deployment, while Commander of Carrier Air Wing 16 aboard the carrier USS Oriskany (CVA 34), he was shot down over enemy territory on 9 September 1965. Stockdale was the highest ranking naval officer held as a prisoner of war in Vietnam. He was awarded 26 personal combat decorations, including the Medal of Honor and four Silver Stars. During the late 1970s, he served as President of the Naval War College. Stockdale is also remembered as a candidate for vice president in the 1992 election, on Ross Perot's independent ticket.

The thing is with the Kennedy-LBJ ticket.. The Kennedy-s (and advisors) got together and decided to offer the Veep to LBJ... every single solitary advisor to Kennedy swore that LBJ'd NEVER accept it... then WHAMO

"One hour after Gustav hit land, the McCain campaign announced that Vice Presidential candidate Sarah Palin's teenage daughter is pregnant. I don't want to say much more beyond this, as I agree with Barack Obama that "people's families are off limits, and people's children are especially off limits."

I do feel very sorry that this minor, this child, now has to have her privacy sacrificed because her mother accepted an offer to run for VP. Obama's right -- the children are off limits. I remember when John McCain cruelly trashed Chelsea Clinton when she was a child in the White House. He told reporters that she was "ugly" "because Janet Reno is her father." Of course, McCain would like us now to accord Palin's daughter the respect he wouldn't give Chelsea."

Michael Moore in an e-mail.

tt

Daffy works sometimes. After all, look at the crew that keeps returning to this blog day after day.

Well thanks, Bowmanc

Yes, James Stockdale is such a distinguished and beloved person that his portrait, too, still hangs on the walls of homes worldwide, even in mud huts as far away as Kenya.

This isn't binary. It's not a choice between "This Person Would Absolutely Be A Great Vice President" and "This Person Is A Total Incompetent Loser Who Should Be Imprisoned Immediately."

There's lots of room between those two propositions (not to mention a lot of great folks in grocery checkout lines, to borrow a line from Dog earlier today.) That great big gray area is called "politics." And what we've seen this week is very stupid politics.

That said, I'd let Sarah Palin cut in front of me in the Express Checkout line any day, even if she did have 11 items in her basket.

*L* Sheila, I love you new Facebook group.

tt

Lard,

OK I will argue that, I haven't researched it, I have no evidence, but I don't care. they did because I want to think they did.

So now tell me why my argument is less valid that most of the stuff that has been posted in opposition to Palin & McCain?

tylenol @ September 2, 2008 7:49 PM

*L*

tt

More on Palin, Buchanan and the Jewish Vote

"This Palin is anti-Israel smear campaign from Rep. Robert Wexler actually began just hours after Friday's Veep announcement, when The Nation's Christopher Hayes dusted off a nearly decade old AP story naming then Wasilla Alaska Mayor Sarah Palin among those wearing Buchanan buttons at aFairbanks campaign luncheon in 1999. That astoundingrevelation alone, suggested Hayes, proved that Palin once supported Buchanan's "hard-right, fringe [campaign] for president.

Hayes later updated the piece with an admission that McCain spokesman Michael Goldfarb had responded that Palin:

"wore the button as a courtesy to Mr. Buchanan, and in an effort to make him feel welcome during his visit, but immediately sent a letter to the editor of her local paper clarifying that the button should not have been interpreted as an endorsement of any kind."

In fact, Palin supported not Buchanan; not even John McCain, but rather Steve Forbes in 2000."

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/09/more_on_palin_buchanan_and_the.html

BowmanC...touche. I think we both understand each other.

I recede.

"We've learned she is linked to the ALASKA Independence Party, a group that wants Alaskans to be able to vote on whether or not to SECEDE from the United States."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/letters/chi-080902vp4_briefs,0,4261287.story

A true American!

tt

GORDO,

Please stop, you are really starting to bother people that do not want to look at any information that is not in agreement with their world view. They have made up their minds and this constant posting of anti Obama smears is making people uncomfortable. Deep down inside, they know that there maybe something to this, but he will solve all our problems, it will be like the rapture.

"Nitty Gritty Dirt Band Turn Of The Century lyrics"

We'll all have lots of money
That we won't have to spend;
You'll be given everything
When everyone's your friend
Hanging out together
in picture perfect weather -
This time 'round the party never ends.

We won't need no TV preachers
to ask how much we gave
we won't need no TV preachers,
see, by then, we'll all be saved
no more fighting for a country
no child will go hungry
We'll be smiling from the cradle to the grave.

"A true American!"

SoetorObama supporters should NOT use this attack line.

Do any of you know why? His "hidden" past!

Cut back on the Oreos, Craig.

Actually GORDO I enjoy your posts. Here is why. Any post on here that provides something that could possibly cause someone to look beyond their beliefs and use that information to evaluate their beliefs and value system or to evaluate that information to see if it has merit, is useful. I see many participants here that appear to be here only as advocates for their beliefs, not here to freely discuss ideas with an open mind, particularly with those they do not share a common political philosophy. If my memory serves me well (quote from the Band) I have not seen very much open discussion of opposing views with people trying to understand how people came to their beliefs.

The Repubs have just made this entire election about abortion. Here we go again.

Don't know if Sarah Palin is or is not "a true American"--
but as far as the allegation that she is/was linked & was a member of the AIP--Jake Tapper (ABC-Political Punch) tries to provide some facts upon which one may form an opinion.

Gail Fenumiai, Director of Alaska Division of Elections says that "Gov. Sarah Palin first registered to vote in the state in May, 1982 as a Republican, & she has not changed her party affiliate with the Division of Elections since that time."

However, her husband, Todd was a member of the AIP from October 1995 through July 2002, except for a few months in 2000. He is currently undeclared.

Tapper concludes with while her husband was a long time member, at least 2 AIP officials recall her attending the 1994 convention, though she says she did not attend.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/the-alaska-divi.html

Coreen,

So what is your point? Does he want to join the Confederacy?

Champ...

Despite reports (in your own mind) to the contrary, you are as smart as you pretend to be. (As in..."Gee, quoting passages from "Paradise Lost" from my college Norton Anthology will really get them once and for all!)

And that stupid post about Craig pretty much just confirms that.

Based on your erratic posts here on this site, you seem to have emotional needs in your life that are not being met. On this blog, among the commentors, you will find lots of wise people in general and competent professionals in specific disciplines who might be able to help you, if you would just ask.

But first, you need to just ditch the whole pose. Surrender the callow persona and just try to be more legitimately sincere and a real person. Right now, you simply project the vibe of every parent's worst nightmare: The Teenage Son Who Thinks He Is Smarter And More Worldly Than Me just because he has the latest version of Grand Theft Auto.

Like it or not, that's what you're projecting.

NOT as smart

Bowmanc,

Tapper's article was providing factual information that
refutes the allegation that Sarah Palin was a member of the AIP.

The inclusion of the information regarding her husband's
affiliation was additional information based upon election records, nothing more--it was not intended to imply anything beyond that.

To the unacknowledgedin NYC, in response to your 8:52comment.

I generally have a policy not to engage with you, but the following excerpt from my earlier comment seems to me to be an appropriate description of your participation on this blog.

I see many participants here that appear to be here only as advocates for their beliefs, not here to freely discuss ideas with an open mind, particularly with those they do not share a common political philosophy.

Coreen,

Thank you for the clarification.

The children of Obama kind of look like maybe their father could be reverend Wright. You know all that "whitey hate," she really likes Rev Wright. Oh I forgot the children of the candidates are off limits. Well you sure could not tell from the sick postings, the last three days. even Jamie who I always considered fair, has since joining the Obama group taken to the bashing, she did however post the next day she was sorry for the really bad one..
Everyone else was sick and disgusting. Yes, I know and will admit to being dead set against Obama and said so , sometimes very snarky.
I may even wind voting for McCain and Palin because I am totally fed up with the democrats. Yes I am now registered as and Independent.
Well you know they say Obama is gay, so says one guy they tried to shut up and buy off. So it could be true.

Anybody notice, who is not the topic of discussion? Obama. He has been completely upstaged. 75,000 in a football stadium vs. the entire blogosphere discussing the VP choice for his opponent. His whole convention message has been buried.

Julie

WTF was that?
Jeez this place is nothing but a cesspool today

I'M reading through all the crap just hoping some shat a diamond.

Jack

Jack, just go back and read Labor day and yesterday.

julie

Bowmanc

Some good points,

Also, look at the very low bar that is being set for Palin.
She did defeat 2 very accomplished politicians to get her governorship.

Jack

Hilarious little snippet just now on MSNBC coverage of GOP convention. Tom Brokaw and Chuck Todd trying to explain the enduring role of the Bush family in GOP politics.

Lots of "Bush 41" hates this guy, but defers because "Bush 43" loves that guy, and how Barbara Bush the elder is the real power, but you can't sell Laura Bush short, because she's a tough cookie too, and how Jeb Bush could have and should have been "Bush 44" if only his name hadn't been Bush.

Talk about dysfunctional Clintons! How come no one is talking about getting this bunch of losers off stage once and for all?

Really funny stuff. Almost reads like the police report from the raid on the FLDS "Yearning For Zion" compound in Texas earlier this year.

Bowmanc, I agree that Obama has been outmanuevered since the VP announcement.

The media has appeared to be downright angry with Palin's selection, as if they are personally insulted by it. That may betray an underlying fear that McCain
may have found someone to undermine their preferred candidate's advance.

On CNN earlier, Jack Cafferty who badgered Hillary daily during the primary, recited every negative innuendo that has been floated on the interenet/media since Palin's selection & asked for comments regarding whether she was a good choice.

Jack,

Julie was just trying to show them how ridiculous the gossiping, starting rumors from nothing, making rude accusations, general all around lies, saying mean things by even bringing children into the mix - how it feels when you say the same type of things about the other side. It was a spoof of sorts.

"Jeez this place is nothing but a cesspool today. I'M reading through all the crap just hoping some shat a diamond."

Jack, what a nice, collegial assessment of the efforts of many of your longtime cyber-associates. I guess we can start hoping for diamonds once you get the doghair out of your keyboard.

Jack, I am merely trying to make people see what they are doing. The children did not do a thing and do not deserve all the stuff that has been done to them. Monday and Tues it was all "tig is a down's baby and needs his mom" or tig is really Bristol baby and there is a cover up. er. etc. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. If They do not wish for Obama children to be exploited then they should not exploit the Palin children.. Bristol is a minor. But you would never believe it from the blame that has been accorded to the child..
Julie

Coreen

"The media has appeared to be downright angry with Palin's selection, as if they are personally insulted by it. "

They are. Matthews actually talked about it earlier. The media is used to being able to do their own "vetting" of the candidate as when they went after info to share about all the other names that were floated as possibilities. Because this decision was made so late and so fast, they are having to play catch up just to find out about her and they are not happy about having to rush to judgement with no information.

Julie

I'll take you at your word.
But, my abvice is to leave the satire to the experts. they get paid to take the lumps.

Jack

Julie

All of that "mommy needed" stuff was from one of our "alias using idiots" that do the drive by commentaries. It's why we get so angry and prefer the folks such as Pogo or Lardass who pick one persona, stick to it and aren't afraid to take responsibilities for their posted material.

BTW, If you want, you can stay Julie Young if you like or pick some other identity that suits you, but get the little blue Typekey. It will save all the constant capcha reading and logging in.

Julie,
Do whatever you want to do.
Just keep posting. Please.

Well said Rita!

Hey Chloe
I posted this at the end of the last thread....
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/mccain-the-just-do-it-candidat.html#comment-138134

Rita

Why do you believe a drive by such as "god love Obama" as much as you believe Obama himself? One is a total stranger of absolutely unknown history and the other is a candidate for the Presidency.

How do you know the mention of "Ken Starr" wasn't some childish attempt at humor considering the association of Starr with the prosecution of Bill Clinton.

I am what I am, Lard.

Jamie,

It seems that much of the media has already formed a judgment of Sarah Palin, they didn't need information.

They intend to define her in as negative a light as possible & as quickly as possible.

Thank you Tony.
I respect your choice also. I respect you.

Chloe, Thanks for the update!

Jack- What do you make of Palin?

LOL

I believe shrub just stole the big dawgs speech and changed the names.

Jack

I'm not sure GWB is doing McCain any favors by basically outlining all the Bush programs he will continue when in office.
>g

This looks terrible. It looks like Bush is giving a press conference. Very awkward.

lol

now he is stealing from reagan

Jack

Jack
Glad your back! Sorry for your computer trouble!!You make me laugh alot,hey speaking of laughing where"s Patsi?Anybody know?

Coreen

"It seems that much of the media has already formed a judgment of Sarah Palin, they didn't need information. "

Which media? The trouble with modern communication is that the lines between news, analysis, opinion, and advocacy are very blurred.

The straight up news reports that I've heard simply stick to the facts. The analysis has been more concentrated on whether she will solidify the evangelical base and what women she is likely to attract (blue collar battleground?). The blogs have been all over the place from total swoon to complete garbage.

Here for the most part it has settled down (after yesterdays mud bath) to discussion of her experience and associations but not particularly ugly, just supposition.

Sometimes you just need to take a deep breath and sort out the speakers in order to decide what to ignore and what has relevance.

Gidget

True no help but ignoring him costs too.

Got it in just before the networks kicked in. Good timing on the part of the Mc
cain people

Jack

I've been wondering where Patsi is too.

Gidget,
I agree, you would think McCain might have told him that.. McCain may do his own thing anyway..

julie

Chloe; 9:46 pm.......... Thanks for the affirmation, now I feel better..................................................

Jamie; 9:51pm ............. I don't necessarily believe , Jamie, but that's one of the major problems, there's no way to know for sure - the Democratic principles have been my faith for so long, and now my faith has been shattered, so I don't necessarily believe, I just don't know.

Lardass Liberal ........................Re: Sarah Palin's nomination, I don't think I said she was great, if I did I apologize, I just happen to get a kick out of the intestinal fortitude it takes to create a situation like this
that makes the extremists come out in droves. I do think she's capable and after what's happened over this side for Old John to pick a capable, pleasant-looking, young woman is freaky funny, I am at the other end of the spectrum, however on the issues.....

Rita

Forget the haters, Jack. That line you had up there was pure gold.

Hilarious!

Was I the only one who saw Bush 41 actually check his wristwatch while they cut to Cindy McCain at his side?
It was right when Laura was extolling Cindy's work on behalf of one-legged Ossetians and other peoples damaged by landmines the world over.
Please, someone with a DVR, tell me I wasn't dreaming!

Actors Night at the RNC

Julie
I would presume that McCain's speech will be about the changes he'll make and what he'll do differently....
seperating himself.....the maverick.
~g

Where IS Patsi???? Also, has anyone heard from Carol, I hope she's all right....................................

Rita

Thanks Rita, always nice to be taken seriously. And a shout out to Chloe, Julie, Champ, Flatus and others I may have missed. Haven't forgotten you Gordo--Always good to know what's around the corner.

So will Reagan help McCain.

Fred is a terrible as a speaker. I keep looking for him to to do a Rodney Dangerfield joke.

Jack

Julie,

From the previous thread, I notice you were concerned about the Obama children being exploited.

There are a couple issues at play as I see it.

1. The McCain campaign used as a hallmark of why Palin was a good choice, the fact that she is a mother to a downs syndrome child, which is an admirable thing.

2. If you are going to introduce one child into the political lexicon, in this case her youngest child, it makes it difficult to shield the other children, especially a 17 year old teen.

3. If a major crux of your platform is going to be family values or abstinence education, then having a teenage daughter get pregnant is an issue. There was a lot of conservative hand wringing over Juno or Jamie Lynn Spears. You can't hate that because it's Hollywood and then applaud this.

4. Going back to McCain making fun of Chelsea Clinton, he is the only one of the 4 candidates to make a direct personal attack against another politicians child. Obama and Biden have been very direct in their condemnation of these smears, far above the level John McCain has risen when protecting his "friends" from similar smears.

I have guessed for some time that this will be a hold your nose election because there is a great sense of urgency for this election and people are finally digging in for what they want and it's about time.

I'm trying to understand the primary issues that drove the supporters first to Clinton and then to McCain, because I don't see him standing for any of the same things Mrs. Clinton ran on this campaign.

Headline from tonight: Fred Thompson finally gets off his ass and decides to campaign.

Too bad for the GOP that he's about a year late.

"This morning, former Mike Dukakis Campaign Manager Susan Estrich says she surfed the blogs and what she found written about Sarah Palin is horrific and totally inappropriate.

Estrich was asked: “Realistically speaking” How many of Hillary Clinton’s voters are in play for John McCain. Her answer: …..”about a third….30 % I would say”.

Barack Obama and his sycophants are caught in their own irony. They have become exactly what they purported to despise: Threatening, lowlife fascists, misogynists and sexists. This is what you get when you allow left over members of failed fringe parties attempt to take over our party. Again. It’s happened before and the results have always been the same. MoveOn, you need to Move On for sure."

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/09/02/susan-estrich-predicts-30-of-clinton-supporters-will-go-mccain/

Chloe,

With regards to your 6:43 post,

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/mccain-the-just-do-it-candidat.html#comment-138104

Your "friend" GORDO mocked the fact that Obama is a bastard as he termed it so the class he has shown hasn't been matched by his cyber stalkers...

Corey

I think the reps stole your idea.
It is starting to sound like a roast

Jack

Wait. I can't keep up, Fred. Did he screw the stripper from Pensacola before he was shot down over Vietnam? Or was she the one who "blew him out of the sky?"

I'm confused.

"The outside world limited to what he could see through the crack of a door."

Sounds a lot like the environment that led to his VP selection.

John may not have asked for ear marks, but his VP choice sure die.

"Actors Night at the RNC"

Jamie-
Too bad Arnold had to cancel....they could have had a hat trick!
~Gidget

At least Arnold could read his speech. You can see why Fred went no where.

Jack

geez, fred thompson, how many times a can speaker clear his throat in one speech

Jack-
Yes.....it makes you wonder how many takes it took to get his lines righ on L &O.
~g

hopin fred gets done before his stomach explodes. between the burbs, hiccups, coughs and near vomits, he could not have much mucus left in those massively enlarged intestines of his

Good grief...he just stumbled on "God Bless America: Yikes....

They are starting out with the fire and politics.

Jack

Traitor alert

lol @ craig

Jack

A strange shift from partisan fire to whiny holyJoe.

Jack

Buchannon just called it a barnburner...he must live where they have little tiny barns.

Interesting that the "maverick" John McCain replaced his keynote speaker:

Rudy Guiliani - pro-choice
Thompson - pro-life

So let's just accept that the heat of the campaign trail is going to diminish Obama's ability to "change the politics of Washington" and restrain McCain's ability to be a "maverick" and stand up to his own party.

It is a lot easier to piss off your own party AFTER you get elected.

Gidget

Must have only read the script. It was a well written barnburner but left a lot on th delivery

Jack

is there such a thihg as reverse puberty? lieberman's already whiny voice has jumped at least an octave. his next gig could be the vienna boys choir.

To my old friend Mr. Crawford -

You've done a swell job kid. You got off that MSNBC tit. And you landed on your feet ..... you're not yet the story teller I urged you to be , but you're on your way, and you're still Don Imus's friend.

Some useless data I used to spread here :

On the giant wheel that is our history there are these things . The first man to die building the Hoover Dam, was the last man's father.
In between ........ some 130 men were lost. American history is packed with this stuff.
Mr. Obama got the nomination of his party on President Johnson's 100th birthday. That was the bookend on the Civil War my fellow Americans. That the son of a "Free Black" from Africa is so close to being our next President ...... The mind reels . He's not the son of of slaves, folks. He's the son of an immigrant who came to better himself.
There is nothing more American.
And last week, he gave one of the great speeches in American history.

I fear we will gun him down, I've seen us do it.

Craig,

If you were a Monty Python fan, you would offer Fred Thompson a breath mint...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlfcF1I5e_g

Lest we forget a tribute to the new running mates fete at this convention...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0kJHQpvgB8&feature=related

By the way .....
Since last Friday, we have been watching John McCain take another SAM Missile up his afterburner. Where he flames out well that's another American story as well.

Craig,

That was funny as hell. I was like he ate a bowl of chili and washed it down with three beers.

RWC,

I generally agree with you, except for one thing. There's no one who invested in America more than the millions of slaves who built while being thought of as chattel. Because to be viewed as inhuman and still love this country is the greatest sacrifice an American could ever make.

Ouch! You have to give it to Newt. He knows how to present an argument.

McCain's greatest asset - his story

McCain's greatest liability - his policies

Newt still knows how to push all my buttons...I forgot how much I dislike that man after the 10 years that he's been gone.

Signed: Angry Left

Gidget

I rather enjoy him even when gritting my teeth. I've always thought his grandiose ideas were a little like this cartoon

It seems that much of the media has already formed a judgment of Sarah Palin, they didn't need information.

Amazing how Bush can cause damage to our Country and then assail people for getting angry.

Hey W - it is not only the Left that is angry...

Ignore previous message Something happened with the paste.

Here we go

http://magicanimation.com/misc/SidneyHarris_MiracleWeb.jpg

The Obama/Biden ticket needs to keep the pressure on McCain:

After spending months saying Obama lacked the experience to be President - McCain has switched gears and adopted the campaign themes that Obama has based his campaign on from the start.

To defend Palin - Republicans now say judgment is paramount to experience and answer almost every question by repeating the mantra that Palin will bring a change to Washington.

If Obama is so naive and does not have the judgment to lead this Country - why did he nail the two things most Americans are seeking from the next President right from the start of his campaign...

No Experience Necessary
How Sarah Palin made the GOP change its mind about presidential qualifications.

http://www.slate.com/id/2199029/

Logic underlying Lieberman's call to Democrats and Independents:

This is no ordinary election because the policies of the last 8 years have placed this Country in a precarious position.

So vote for someone who will continue those failed policies?

Craig-
Keith Olbermann must have been as put off by Thompson's coughing as you were....he reported that he coughed/cleared his throat 70 times.
Hee.
~Gidget

The one thing I dislike about watching the Republican Convention is that with very few exceptions there is no variety.

If it weren't for "Tan In A Can", you could go snow blind from the reflection on the field of lily white faces. We won't go into the amount of peroxide needed for all that blond hair.

tucker bounds is an idiot.

Jack

Rick Davis, campaign manager for John McCain's presidential bid, insisted that the presidential race will be decided more over personalities than issues during an interview with Post editors this morning.

"This election is not about issues," said Davis. "This election is about a composite view of what people take away from these candidates."

***

In reaction to Rick Davis' comments about the election not being about issues, Barack Obama campaign manager David Plouffe released the following statement: "We appreciate Senator McCain's campaign manager finally admitting that his campaign is not in fact about the issues the American people care about, which is exactly the kind of cynical old politics people are ready to change."

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/2008/09/mccain_manager_this_election_i.html

WaPo article on Palin vetting

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/02/AR2008090203462.html?hpid=topnews

SoetorObama has less experience than Palin.

The corrupt DNC selected him -- nomination was stolen from Hillary.

Wait for his "hidden" past to be revealed by the Repub TRUTH machine. The American people will be shocked at what they learn. Repubs don't have to lie this time -- the TRUTH will be devastating.

singer/actor Jerry Reed dead at 71
Smokey and the Bandit co-star

http://www.cmt.com/news/country-music/1593962/jerry-reed-brought-country-music-to-a-wider-audience.jhtml

Amos Mose

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7GyLr7Cz2g

Anyone watching MSNBC? Who is the idiot Congresswoman talking to Chris....who thinks Lieberman ran for VP 4 years ago (said it twice) and is "too young" to remeber Reagan's endorsement of Goldwater. Grrrr.

East Bound and Down

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHZJej98_T0

This may be one of the most persuasive statements to convince one not to vote for McCain/Palin, as stated by Patrick J. Buchanan.

"Johnny's got a new girl"

"In choosing Palin, McCain may also have changed the course of history as much as Ike did with his choice of Richard Nixon & Ronald Reagan did with his choice of George H.W. Bush.

For should this ticket win, Palin will eclipse every other Repbulican as heir apparent to the presidency and will have her own power base among lifers, evangelicals, gun folks and conservatives--wholly independent of President McCain."

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=74137

Obama's experience:

Obama has served for 12 years as an elected official – 8 years in the Illinois Legislature and 4 years in the US Senate.

Foreign Policy

-Back in 2002, Obama opposed the Iraqi war at its outset, calling it "an ill-conceived venture which would require a U.S. occupation of undetermined length, at undermined cost, with undetermined consequences." Call correct.

-Served on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee

-Obama introduced the bi-partisan "Lugar–Obama" initative, which expanded the Nunn–Lugar cooperative threat reduction concept to conventional weapons,

-Has debated issues of Foreign Policy on the Senate floor and the campaign trail with "experienced" leaders from both parties

-According to 18 million voters - Obama has passed the Commander in Chief test

State Senate

-His current call for universal health care by 2012 can be linked to one of the 832 bills he sponsored as a State Senator - a proposed amendment to the Illinois Constitution to establish a legal right to universal health care coverage and a passed 2003 law to extend health care coverage to low-income individuals in Illinois.

-Concerning crime and civil rights, State Senator Obama both won the unanimous endorsement of the police and got officers to support racial profiling studies and legislation mandating police videotape interrogations of criminal suspects.

Executive Experience

-Obama has run a grassroots campaign - with a bigger budget than the one that Palin managed as Governor - that has broken all records and attracted millions of supporters. The campaign themes and technology Obama relied on at the outset - has now been adopted by his more "experienced" competitors.

Gidget,

She was a Rep. from New Mexico and she gave meaning to the frozen chosen...

On a brighter note, I highly recommend the show Raising the Bar on TNT...

More Experience...

-As a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Obama has made official trips to Eastern Europe, the Middle East, Central Asia and Africa.

-Obama also became Chairman of the Senate's subcommittee on European Affairs.

-Obama held assignments on the Senate Committees for Foreign Relations, Environment and Public Works and Veterans' Affairs through December 2006.

-In January 2007, he left the Environment and Public Works committee and took additional assignments with Health, Education, Labor and Pensions and Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs.

"Rick Davis, campaign manager for John McCain's presidential bid, insisted that the presidential race will be decided more over personalities than issues ..."

--- personalities ---

That's what the Repub TRUTH machine will target -- facts from SoetorObama's "hidden" past will rip his mask away. Dems down ticket will be running from the Dem label as fast as possible.

Craig, Democracy Now found the hurricane in St. Paul...Amy Goodman and her producers Kuddrous and Salazar were arrested violently, their tier one credentials around their necks forcefully removed off their necks by the Secret Service...Salazar & Kouddrous face felony charges, Goodman a misdemeanor...
http://www.democracynow.org/

Bear
Thanks....
I watched Raising the Bar last night....I think it will get better now that they've established the characters....
Gidget

This is an interesting read...

http://www.theroot.com/id/47868?from=rss

Another formerly hardcore, anti-Bush Democrat, blogger Larry Johnson, was largely responsible for spreading the Michelle Obama "Whitey tape" urban legend earlier this year. Ironically, it was eventually conservative-leaning blogs (including, Michelle Malkin, National Review and yours truly) that explained why the tape's existence was highly doubtful.

SoetorObama is a Featherweight
=========================

Palin-Obama Comparison Chart

http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/09/01/palin-obama-comparison-chart/

Palin's Foreign Policy Experience:

In March 2007, John McCain’s vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin said: “I’ve been so focused on state government, I haven’t really focused much on the war in Iraq."

http://thinkprogress.org/?tag=Iraq

Gidget, I just watched the reair of the premiere...I thought it was odd to see some NYPD alum until I saw the ad that it was a Bochco show...

BTW, Jane Kazmerek looks hot...

Bear-----------------

Are you really so clueless? You don't understand anything, do you?

This is an interesting read about how Indians feel about Jindal

http://www.theroot.com/id/47817

GORDO.....Calling the Kettle Black aren't we?

Bear is very well written and pretty damned smart. I wouldn't say clueless. ;0)

I understand the difference between delusion and fact. I know you are deluded and if you traded in fact you would post one every now and then.

Geez, Craig...did you stay awake through the turncoat's speech? How lame can he get? He's the model for empty suit. He sounds like Mr. Burns with that gurgling laugh.
http://www.gopconvention.com/videos/

Give me a break GORDO - that partisan chart does not accurately represent Obama's record.

The point is that there is a real debate about who is more experienced between Obama and Palin - with valid arguments on both sides (except that Palin is severely lacking in Foreign Policy experience). There is no slam dunk of either side.

Despite this - McCain and the GOP said for months that there was no question that Obama lacked the experience to be President, mocked his experience and claimed he would be "dangerous".

Now after selecting Palin - they have turned on a dime - and with the same confidence - say that there is no question that Palin is ready to lead on day one.

It is plain they are saying whatever it takes to get elected. And if they will lie about this - what else will they lie about.

Moreover, based on what they are saying about Palin - there is no doubt Senator Obama would passed the GOP's Commander in Chief test - if he was only running on their ticket. (He has already passed the test according to 18 million voters).

Gordo:

Your chart lists Foreign Policy experience as being Governor of a state that borders two foreign countries.

Do you honestly buy that?

Do remember that one of the cases W. made against McCain in 2000 was that McCain's 20 plus years in the senate didn't compare to 1 term as governor of a big state like Texas...

Though someone tell Republican that the smallest state in the union has 50% more in population than Alaska...

Warren counting Canada and Russia

Here's a case for Palin being a bait and switch candidate...

http://www.theroot.com/id/47886

Warren,

Since The Gov of Alaska would not have the clearances or the Need To Know about the Military's bases guarding the Bearing Straight and the North Pacific, I'd she is not up to speed on the two borders.

Since her national guard is mainly in Iraq and she admits she hasn't been paying attention to it or her national guard's welfare, I'd also say GORDO doesn't know what he is talking about.

Chef Sheila------------------

Bear is completely clueless about the "Whitey" video(s). I went to the links - George and Malkin are either trying to mislead or just don't know the "facts" about the video(s). Bear doesn't know enough about this issue to spot that.

Thanks for the explanation GORDO.....but since I know Bear so well and have a lot of faith in him, I'll ere on the side of Bear. ;0) Cheers!

That chart really has the Obamabots upset. How will you deal with SoetorObama's "hidden" past --once it's revealed. This is how: MELTDOWN

I forgot GORDO,

you have original copies of the videos...I forgot...never mind the people who peddled the stories about Kerry having self inflicted wound in Vietnam would be masturbating to the idea that these were true...

Even if they were true, when you have people, like you trying to slam you because of race, why can't she call you whitey? I would rather she use dumb fuck or dip shit instead but...

BTW GORDO,

If we were to play 6 degrees of separation, I can make a direct connection to any living president in 2 steps from me...how close are you to any?

Looks like McCain is the new "cult of personality" candidate. No need to talk about what he is going to do - just talk about what he has done and what a great guy he is.

I don't want a great guy - I want a great President. And the two do not go hand in hand.

those mics picked up every snort and sigh and throat-clearing and belch of both Thompson and Lieberman; it's enough to put you off your food. .... X

Here's the convention question of the night...

Is it a good thing that Barbara Bush looked the same tonight as she did at the 1980 convention?

The chart is total BS put out by a partisan hack as opposed to a real analysis.

Shows what you need to rely on when the truth doesn't favor your position.

Two nights ago Obama & Biden were travelling by bus & SUV from Ohio to Michigan. They paid a surprise visit to Pier 32 restaurant in Hamilton, Indiana, just 20 minutes west of me.
I can't link it because it's a pay-for-read service, suffice to say the people who were at that restaurant were totally surprised.
My former co:worker was interviewed in the story, as was the wife of a friend. Both Obama and Biden were wonderful with their fellow diners.

Bear, very observant! She never changes, but old King George looks OLD.

I am sure Palin will give a great speech tomorrow night.

But the lack of vetting will reflect poorly on McCain's judgment and the need to do a 180 on the experience issue will reflect poorly on McCain's character.

Buenas noches peeps.

Dex and Bear
We're you watching in HD ? Barb looked quite a bit older to me...though I don't think her spirit has aged one it!
~G

Dex,

that's so nice to know!

I'm not able to afford HD...were I to have it, I would only view sports or science shows in HD.

Bear-
Baseball and golf in HD spoils you so it's hard to watch in anything else.
It is not kind to aging faces though.
!g

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26514841/

With this cover, I think Palin is going to be the celebrity of the campaign now...

When Bill Clinton was running, they were slamming him as "The Governor of a small state". Palin is the Governor of a state with the population smaller than Little Rock.

warren-----------------------

The chart is far more honest than SoetorObama -- you'll find out how much when we learn about his "hidden" past.

Bear-
This is going to get very weird over the next 62 days...a least they gave Barack the FRONT cover. LOL.
~Gidget

Gidget,

If being mayor of a small town is experience to qualify for the white house, then being a store manager for McDonalds is even better because you have to turn a profit or your fail...city can just issue bonds or raise taxes like Palin did...lol

Or hire lobbyists to get 20 million in earmarks for your little tiny cit.y...

SoetorObama does have some executive experience -- CAC. But he doesn't want to talk about it. Know why?

I'm rewatching Laura Bush's speech...mostly ecause I thought I misheard her the first time and didn't want to overreact. But...in listing George's accomplishments over EIGHT YEARS that Africa is now getting AIDS meds for 2 million people...when the total HIV/AIDS victims in Africa is over 28 million??? That's something to brag about????
Again, signed: Angry Left

geez! HD makes people look hideous...next time you see the NYYankees on in HD, check out Hideki Matsui's face...a mass of moles that makes me scream GET TO A DOCTOR, QUICK !
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Levi "Sex on Skates" Johnson is in the clear, only because he lives in Alaska and not,say..oh, Ohio.
Alaska's age of consent is sixteen. He clears all legal hurdles.
In Ohio, all professional people who became aware of Bristol's pregnancy would have been required to report Levi Johnson as a child rapist. She's 17, he's 18. Only if he was 17 at conception could he be spared two years in the state penitentiary as a sex offender, and he would be in grave danger there as a sex offender. he probably would have served about 4 to 6 months lock-up time and the rest on probation.But, in Alaska, 16 year old girls are fair game if the male is 19 or younger.
Different strokes for different folks.

catching up with the convention......

Fred Thompson better stay the hell out of Alaska, cause Sarah Palin might want to field dress HIM......

God knows I dislike George Bush, but I will give him credit for working with African governments on the AIDS epidemic.

Fred Thompson should be embalmed. Zombie for sure.

Dyeez...
is asking to be civil too much asked?
Reading the blogs here and am (a bit) shocked....

Well, maybe this is no place for me....

Anywho,
Tony....the queen reigned supreme in Amsterdam last night. 54.000 screaming fans were absolutely delighted for 2 hours... What an extravaganza
She was GOOD!

all hail the Queen.

Hey CC, is your mom going to call Imus?

What is that GOP elephant on the logo doing???

http://news.yahoo.com/s/bloomberg/20080902/pl_bloomberg/azjwbcginwsg

``Ever since he appointed her, people have stopped betting on McCain,'' said David Williams of Ladbrokes in London. ``He went down like a sack of potatoes as far as the punters are concerned.''

sounded like he really wanted her to........

Geraldine Ferraro rocked ABC this morning !!
Put the warning to the press that WE WILL BE WATCHING - what they did to Hillary and not to do it to Sarah.
Called them out on the double standard and how they continued to give BHO a pass

McCain was sexist with his pandering pick of Palin. She's no Hil'ry Clinton & we Hil'ry supporters know it.
C'mon, BO & Joe.

http://www.now.org/press/08-08/08-29.html

"What McCain does not understand is that women supported Hillary Clinton not just because she was a woman, but because she was a champion on their issues. They will surely not find Sarah Palin to be an advocate for women."

Don't go after her for being a working mother, go after her for what she stands for & whom she stands against.

She's Phyllis Schlaffley for the 21st century.

Craig - Watch out for the goons with pepper spray. Why does every Repug convention look like we live in the old Soviet Union?

"East bound & down, load it up and truck it..."

http://www.popeater.com/music/article/seventies-singer-actor-jerry-reed-dies/156496?icid=100214839x1208850404x1200503266

awww, crap......amos moses down for the count

Don't blame the MSM...the GOP is using these kids just like McCain is trying to use Palin's genetic make-up.

"The young man's presence could set off a media frenzy..."

http://news.aol.com/elections/conventions/republicans/article/bristols-boyfriend-to-join-palins-at-rnc/155015?icid=100214839x1208876602x1200478192

"Since her national guard is mainly in Iraq and she admits she hasn't been paying attention to it or her national guard's welfare," Sheila@12:32 a.m.

Sheila, where did she say she doesn't pay attention to her national guard or to its welfare? Those are damning allegations.

Who is Amos Moses blue?

Mornin' all.

Good piece from Jack Shafer, the Slate media columnist, on the "feeding frenzy" over Palin. Link below excerpt:

"The press is merely doing on short notice what the McCain campaign's vetting team should have done between March—when he clinched the nomination—and now: properly vetting his vice-presidential candidate. Does Palin have what it takes to serve as president? Do any Tom Eagleton- or Spiro Agnew-type skeletons lounge in her closet? Will Joe Biden eat her alive in their vice-presidential debate? Can she subordinate herself to McCain?"

http://www.slate.com/id/2199121/

mornin' all -

Sad news about Jerry Reed. It's weird, but I've been humming Amos Moses for the last 4 days. Somebody said swamp last weekend and pronounced it SWAWMP and that started the humming and I can't get it out of my head.

I caught a little of Holy Joe on the news this morning - he didn't fare so well on the Truth-o-meter. Go figure. I tink he's hitched his wagon to the wrong star (am I mixing metaphors?)

One can agree that the questions to Sarah Palin from the Press are valid.

But why do they continue to patsy BHO?
Why?
Why?
Why?

It seems like a long time since Vice President Dan Quayle denounced Murphy Brown for having a baby out of wedlock, bemoaning a “poverty of values.” It also seems like a long time — and another McCain ago — that Republicans supporting W. smeared the old John McCain by spreading rumors that he had fathered an illegitimate black child.

This week, the anti-abortion forces celebrated the news of Bristol’s pregnancy, using it as further proof that their beloved Governor Palin — who will no more support sex education than polar bears — was committed to the cause.
---Dowd

Kentucky accent or no Kentucky accent, have her call if she wants. You probably got your horse-sense gene from her.

You and Fred Thompson should go down to Radio Shack together. He can get a belch-button, and you should see if they make a yawner.

Designated driver because you're the one with the rental car? We always gave that responsibility to the most junior officer in the gaggle.

Bear, Amos Moses was a one armed Cajun who lived by himself in the Louisiana swamp, catching alligators. He lost his arm when an alligator bit it off when his daddy used him as alligator bait as a kid.

Here's the confirmation that Sarah Palin is a holy warrior who makes W. look like an atheist.

"She's a disciple of the Lord, Jesus Christ before she's our mayor"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/02/palins-church-may-have-sh_n_123205.html

wasilla assembly of god.......wonder if she talks to Jimmie Swaggart any.........

Bear

I hope you had time to watch the portion of last night's convention that talked about McCain's and his cohort's Vietnam service.

There is usually a defining point or event in an individual's life. For McCain, it was being a POW. For Shrub, it was getting an honorable discharge.

Your characterization of those soldiers who went to Vietnam having an easy time of it compared to those who served in WW-II and Korea is simply ill-informed.

Jerry's breakdown......with chet

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ni8KBhnebwE

Bear,
You need to get a deeper understanding before you try to inflame - Find out what is behind that statement.
She may then be giving, caring, sharing as was Christ.

To bad you have allowed the radical few to tant your views

I'm afraid I think Mac's defining moment was the SC 2000 primary when he took it from Bush/Rove and then rolled over.......

[Insert famous picture of bush/mccain "hug" here.]

defining "political" moment, that is......Political Moment, which is what it's all about right now.....his POWness has absolutely nothing to do with his political career and should not even be considered.

Flatus,

Now you are putting words in my mouth. I never said they had an easy time. Men who enlisted in 1941 and did leave the Army until 1946 said they had an easy time because when they were drafted, they were only on the clock for 1 year.

They also point out that as many men died in 3 years of Korea as did in more than 10 years in Vietnam.

In Korea, they experienced temperatures as cold as -30 F and over 100 F in the Summer. It never got cold in Vietnam.

I have never had a person shoot at me in anger. I know that any combat is not a pleasant thing. If you were aware of some of the harsh things Vietnam vets faced coming home, not only were they called baby killers, there were a lot of veterans who didn't like the fact that the US wasn't undefeated after Vietnam.

I know many vets from Nam especially who were annoyed by that and other realities when they returnned.

I think that the radical Dems are afraid as they see the republican party move to a point that better represents the average American.
This is the reason such vial is coming out.
They protest to much

Now lets see the speach tonight and then the Debate with Joe B - that will be telling, but if you use the indicators of the Dem blogs and BHO talking heads - they must have concern

Ping, did you actually read the article Bear linked? You could be right about Palin, but you are definitely not right about Kalnins. And her effort to institute censorship in the Wasilla library then firing the librarian who vowed to fight it doesn't sound like the Christian sharing thing to me.

Ping Pong

Bear is right about one thing she does make shrub look like an athiest faker.
Look at the video linked to in the article you see her interacting with her church family. It is a genuine moment that anybody who attends church, liberal or conservative, can relate to.
If I were McCain I would give that video to every church member in the nation. It would be instant connection.

Jack

Yes I did read the article, I put on my filter glasses knowing the source but overall it appeared fair.

The immediate jump to bring in the radical few far right wing idiots ..... was good spin but no value.

Lets see what she is all about.
I want the press to do their job to help discover, that is their job.

Again my major disappointment is the continued pass the give to BHO

Pogo

You know better than to rely on huffpo for anything.
Look at the video they linked.
It tells a different story.

She was in front of her church family, engaged in the same church speak you will see in churchs all across this nation, liberal of conservative.

Jack

Ping Pong,

Haven't seen you here in a while...hope all is well.

I've never been easy with any overly religious displays, outside of the normal proceedings of a mass or religious rite. It's one thing to be devout, but I've never been comfortable with the "Jesus Freak" crowd. I don't find much difference between hard core Christians and any other religions zealots. All are willing to kill others over their slightly different beliefs about the same God.

I'm not sure how you can say Obama is getting a pass right now when all of McCain's nuanced flip flops are ignored, how every instance where he has needed to correct a misstatement are ignored or that the media has accepted the fact that being on the city council offers more leadership experience than serving in Congress.

Ironically, the Republicans are undercutting McCain's experience by saying she has more than the 3 guys put together. Not a good subliminal message to put out there when Bush beat McCain the same way.

Jack, you can probably guess that I don't rely on Huffpo normally. As to the video, I can't view it but I don't doubt that - she may be a wonderful Christian with only her fellow congregants' interests at heart - I frankly don't know - but the fact is AG is not a mainstream church, and based on accounts from the NYT - which I consider a bit more reliable than HuffPo - she is a born again Christian who introduced Republican wedge politics and religion into the politics of Wasilla, and she tried to introduce censorship into the town library and fired the librarian when she said she'd fight that. I infer a connection betrween her politics and her religious beliefs. I consider that a borderline violation of the Separation Clause that very well may be over the line. And in my experience churchspeak is what comes out of just about everone's mouth when they address their fellow churchgoers, and while I truly believe it is heartfelt, it is nothing more than feelgoodism and doesn't bear IMHO on anyone's qualifications or ability to serve in government. I see about 300 people every couple of Sundays who would sat the same thing about the Catholic church LP & Mrs. P belong to.

Jack, here's the NYT article I was referring to obliquely.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/03/us/politics/03wasilla.html?hp

Bear,
It is hard to determine those that are and those that claim to be... depends on the definition. Certainly it would be hard for a review of humanity to dispute that using Religon (then Economics) are the leading causes of death and distruction.

I also agree that McCains people are pushing to hard to say she is better prepared for National Defense then Joe B. Now BHO is a different set of facts. The Dem ticket is upside down

Bear,

Please look at this enumeration of Korean War and Vietnam War casualties. It's the most usable compilation that I've seen:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0LIY/is_10_90/ai_103380666/pg_2

From 61-63, 64-65, and 67-69 I was in Korea, the first two times in the Army and the last tour in the Air Force. In 65-66 I was in Vietnam in an ammunition battalion supporting the 1st Cav and the 4th Inf. We took our ammo into the field so that it would be a short helo lift from our supply points to where the infantry were giving their all. I deployed to Pleiku and Kontum.

Draftees during both Korea (I think) and Vietnam served for two years. Many of the people serving in Korea were reserves still on the roster from WW-II. They were not well prepared to go back into battle.

Many of the casualties in Korea were directly attributable to the brutally cold weather in North Korea during the winter of 50-51. And, also, to their lack of preparation for the possibilty of being held prisoner.

The types of casualties experienced in Vietnam seem quite similar to those being experienced in Iraq and Afghanistan. In Korea, they were more like 'traditional' land combat. But, a casualty is a casualty.

Our forces in both Korea and Vietnam were victims of poor senior leadership. The troops performed well in both conflicts.

Comparing any conflict since WW-II with that war is simply like comparing apples and oranges. WW-II was a world war being fought for survival. The later wars weren't.

McCain's bet on Palin sets up a 'wild ride' in fall campaign
"Palin has the potential to shake up a race in which the field is tilted in the Democrats' favor by economic angst and a desire for change — or to be a disastrous distraction that makes McCain's course even steeper. The nine weeks from now until Election Day will determine whether she is "an enormous asset and a game-changer or she turns out to be a liability," says former House speaker Newt Gingrich."

"She's going to talk to the delegates about the future of this country, about how to reform broken institutions of government," says McCain strategist Steve Schmidt. "People will hear about her reform-and-change message" and about energy and its links to national security."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-09-02-palin-cover_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip

Threadalicious

Today's blistersyeahbutchannel

The S words for Democracy
Smarmy, Snarky, Snobby,Smuggly

Considering how the Palin selection has completely overshadowed Obama, it has already been wildly successful. Add the hysterical reaction from the left and the media, the republicans could not have asked for more.

Many people are going to recoil in horror at the malicious and spiteful attempts to discredit Governor Palin. There could be a very nasty backlash at the democrats and media as these attacks are found to be inacurate or untrue.

Pogo

She fired a lot of people. I suspect it is that kind of town, as the city employees were active in the election for the former Mayor.

Two things pop out in that article, She is a reformist from day one and has stepped on a lot of toes. Those sore toes are willing talk.
She also left her town better off than when she started. She is very good, but understands her limitations, as she created a position of city administrator, to bring professionalism to the city staff.

It is a new day Pogo, the old boxs don't work. You may wish to try and put her in an old comfortable box, but she doesn't fit..

Experience and ability wise she is shapping into being everything we hope Obama is but hasn't proved it yet.

Jack

Come On Jack,

He is running a political campaign, isn't that enough experience for you? Geeez, what do you want?

The selection of Sarah Palin has indeed overwhelmed the Democrats message, so far. It remains to be seen if the media scrutiny undermines her candidacy or provides a backlash among voters.

Today's SFGAte article addresses the balancing act that will probably determine how Palin is received.

"Scrutiny of Palin poses risks for GOP and Dems" by Carolyn Lochhead.

"Palin hits a public nerve, but which one remains the question."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/09/02/MNIU12MMIH.DTL&tsp=1

Is Anita Bryant still alive? Can I vote for her?
Posted by: LardassLiberal | September 2, 2008 7:35 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TaQabiB7Gg

This is when I liked her... later on she became such a hateful twit that I was so glad when she got pied in the face.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dS91gT3XT_A

Jack, trying to redefine the old boxes as you put it may or may not be reflective of anything other than trying to change the hole so that the new peg will fit. I'm not convinced she is so great - she did some things that probably needed to be done, but she did some things that woudl be considered improper in most places. Casting her as a reformist from day one may be overstepping a bit since by reform I assume you are talking about her support for ethics legislation in AK. I'm sure this will getr fleshed out as the campaign grinds on. I'm just starting to read about her and what she did as governor - frankly I don't put much stock in someone's experience as mayor of a town 1/3 the size of the backwater I live in. I'll make an assessment after I've read more, but so far, I'm not all that impressed - seems like a fairly vanilla Republican governor pushing god, guns and gas to me.

Bowman has a good point, which was mentioned here last week.

The children of Obama kind of look like maybe their father could be reverend Wright....

...Well you know they say Obama is gay, so says one guy they tried to shut up and buy off. So it could be true.

Posted by Julie Young

Shame! Shame! Shame! Using the kids of Barack Obama and criticizing them??? C'mon Julie that's just wrong !! They are two lovely girls and I am sure both Michelle and Barack have been exemplary parents to them. This is reminiscent of the attacks against Chelsea when she was first on the national scene.

And I really don't understanding trumpeting the rumour that Barack is gay. No one has backed that up and I don't think the label "gay" should be tossed up in people's faces like a weapon. I don't care if he's gay, straight or swings both sides of the electric current. It is just silliness and I am truly disappointed.

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Wednesday shows Barack Obama attracting 48% of the vote while John McCain earns 43%.

Fifty-two percent (52%) of Americans have a favorable opinion of Palin. A separate survey found that Obama is number one and Palin number two on the list of candidates people would like to meet.

Data from Rasmussen Markets currently gives Obama a 60.0 % chance of winning in November
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

Jack, I agree with your characterization of Gov Palin.

Having been in city government, I can absolutely respect the challenges she faced in effecting change--most difficult because of the relatively close ties of the employees to city residents. There would have been lots of interests working against her, actively hoping she would fail.

I still see Sen Obama as being the 'Lt Kije' candidate--so much of his persona has been created with smoke and mirrors. Having his executive experience as being the running of a campaign where he spent an obscene amount of money somehow pales in comparison to her achievements.

I will watch her speech tonight with lots of curious interest.

http://palinsexismwatch.blogspot.com/

Jack,

On MoJo right now the panel was just discussing the topic you and
pogo have been on about today--how Palin is difficult to put into a box.

They said she's a modern, working woman, who isn't anti-gay but is
pro-life and a social conservative.

I don't know if this is true. But, this is what the panel put forth.

" pushing god, guns and gas to me."

Just what those swing voters love. Remember, Obama even knows what they cling to.

Bowmanc

Axelrod for president?

Gotta tell you, my wife<who is voting Obama, found the "I have more executive experience because I run a large campaign" statement by Obama to be very humorus.
It puzzles me as to why the Obama people want to keep pushing this one.
I would think the best response, would be "great pick for a Republican" Then keep on message hammering away at the person who counts in this election, McCain the Republican.

Jack

Obama Campaign Admits to Palin Smears (03Sep08)
http://hfdean.blogspot.com/2008/09/obama-campaign-admits-to-palin-smears.html

This is the link to the site saucy goose refers to.
You guys are better investigative reporters than the media!

Obama actually said that, Jack?

Hi chloe,

Thanks for your "USA Today" link.

It's interesting that neither the Democrats nor the Republicans know quite how the pick of Palin will impact the election now.

Today, on MoJo, some analysts are saying the pick of Palin is suicide for the Repubs, some are saying it is energizing and brilliant for them.

Jamie,

Thought this Wall Street Journal article is an interesting follow-up to our comments last evening with regard to the media's anger & attitude of having endured a personal insult by Sarah Palin's selection.

"The Beltway Boys"

"Even as the Obama camp ponders how best to handle John McCain's veep pick of Sarah Palin, the high priests & priestesses of the media have marked her as an apostate. The Beltway class is in full-throated rebellion against a nondomesticated convservative who might pose a threat to their coronation of Barack Obama & the return of Camelot-on-the-Potomac."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122039719000892745.html?mod=opinion_main_review_and_outlooks

The Miami Herald this week quoted an e-mail from Obama Florida spokesman Mark Bubriski that stated: "Palin was a supporter of Pat Buchanan, a right-winger or as many Jews call him: a Nazi sympathizer."

The McCain campaign says Palin supported Steve Forbes' campaign in 1999.

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2008/09/figures-obama-camp-behind-palin-smears.html

"It's interesting that neither the Democrats nor the Republicans know quite how the pick of Palin will impact the election now.

I agree Marcia.

But it's probably silly of us to think we can make any kind of informed decision this early in the game. I like her and I am trying the idea on for size, but we need a lot more information and exposure to her in the near future.

I often trust my gut instinct on things. But that doesn't stop me from skepticism and giving it a lot of thought, until I'm sure.

Chloe,

I don't see how your link at 10:23 is proof of the Obama campaign being behind the "smears".

chloe,

That's what I like about you. You seem to be genuinely searching for answers.
Your links offer various viewpoints.
I try to look at all sides, too.

I enjoy posts that offer alternative views. I'm truly NOT partisan any longer.
And, like you, I see myself as an Independent now.

Champ

Not an exact quote but a close paraphrase as he was hemming and hawing a bit. I saw it yesterday morning very early 4 am while my wife was getting ready to leave to catch a 6am flight. It was an overnight rerun of Anderson Cooper on CNN.
My response at the time was "WTF is answering that question for?" Just because the reporter asks doesnt mean you have to answer.

Jack

Obama actually said that, Jack?

Posted by: champ | September 3, 2008 10:23 AM

Obama: I Have More Executive Experience Than Palin
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/09/02/obama-i-have-more-executive-experience-than-palin/

Coreen,

Thanks for the Wall Street Journal link. Interesting article.

NEW THREAD

Thank you Marcia.
You are right. I am always looking for answers.
That's why I like to hear others opinions so much.
I very much enjoy you and your posts.

I think one could question Palin's judgement by what she named her kids. 'Trig' and 'Track'? I would think an ardent Christian would prefer Biblical naming conventions.

If he said anything with the same implication, Jack, it demonstrates either his arrogance or poor improvisation. He says dumb stuff in interviews, but sure hits the nail on the head in speeches. Yes, I understand why...

Who else would it be?

Hillary? No she has to destroy Obama (leaving no fingerprints) so she can run in 2012.

The plumbers? No they broke into the DNC offices in the Watergate building.

Romney? So he can become VP?

Ron Paul, so he can split the vote and win.

Somebody that supports Obama? No way, they would never do something like that. That is old politics! Possible Chicage Style.

Just because the reporter asks doesnt mean you have to answer.
Posted by: whskyjack A | September 3, 2008 10:39 AM

Like the time Obama told the reporter "Can I just please eat my pancakes". Not a problem to not answer that time.

New Thread

Euro-Tom; 10:10 am.......... "Shame, for critiquing Obama and Family," - one MORE time - proceed to GO, collect $200, Pass, pass, pass............................

Bowmanc; 10:45 am ................................You are too funny! ................................................................

Rita