Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Early BIrd gets the worm

Thnx for the information Craig.
You see...I am learning a thing or two here.

Anyway, I am yawning big time at this election. I should be excited right?
Well maybe it´s me.... It bores the hell out of me.

And to all those asking?
Only three more pages of typing and I am done.....

Craig,

Very interesting… Do we have a Justice Wells on the US Supreme Court?

Also an alternate title could be – The election dangles in danger of a tie!

A+

Now if we can clear the “Just Words” and people can determine the True American Values and direction of each ticket – I do not think it will be close

And the District of Columbia gets to vote.

And of course that vote wouldn't have anything to do with the fact DC is 95% Black. Oh I keep forgetting this race is not suppose to be about race. But that fairytale will never happen as this race has always been about race, Team BHO has seen to that. BHO will lose not because of the color of his skin, Colin Powell would have easily won, but to the chagrin of the DNC, MSM, and Team BHO, he'll lose because the American people are smarter than electing someone to POTUS whose only skill is being able to read a pre-printed speech articulately off a teleprompter. BHO just doesn't respond very well to questions he hasn't been prepped for. This sad fact of life has been demonstrated time and time again.

Here is a rather interesting web site.

http://www.independencejournal.com/

And if you were concerned about the government listening into your phone calls to old Aunt Bee, this story should curl your paranoia and tie it into knots.

http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/09/whats-the-milit.html

Fry,
Sen Obama will win if the people want to move to an even stronger central Government that entitles people to more government support and control

Sen McCain will win if the people want to move away from an even stronger central Government and one that entitles people to the right to work hard and contribute

Now if we can clear the “Just Words” and people can determine the True American Values and direction of each.
Values by not what they say but what they have done and their environment.

Direction by reviewing past factual history of votes and at thier policy details when possible.

Get past the smoke and mirrors - the Just Words BS.

Who will best SERVE and PROTECT

Summary and off to work.....

Sen Obama wins the vote of those that run for the ice truck before the winds die down. (Trained by the Dems to depend on the Governement)

Sen McCain wins the vote of the people that prepare and are self-sufficient.

The race will be decided by those between

Ping

Good point, but BHO supporters have a problem with, "one that entitles people to the right to work hard and contribute." They would rather have a government that held their hand every step of the way, to make sure they didn't stub their toes or bump their heads. They would rather reward the individual who takes chances and becomes successful in the form of higher taxes to pay for those who just rather have the government provide them with nanny care for all eternity. The hypocrisy of this are the people behind Team BHO, the very powerful and wealthy D's.

A question.

Will there be a reception for Ahmadinejad later this month when he is here to address the United Nations General Assembly? If so where, and who will be hosting it?

Right about now, it's time to tout a single-payer healthcare system--while the fear of more insurance failures is palpable.

The candidate who supports the insurers will (finish the sentence).

Just to be sure, Team Obama better make sure it's not close so the GOP can't steal it, again.

Speaking of other ties, did Johnathon mug a clown for his neckware? That was a big, fluffy bowtie.

If you Liberals thought last weeks remarks by the ever brilliant, the beautiful, so called comedian Sandra Bernhard, suggesting Sarah Palin "would gang-raped by my big black brothers" if she came to Manhattan, were hysterical, then you must be still rollicking this morning over Saturdays SNL skit.

http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=75852

Just goes to prove my point that Liberals, are such hypocrites.

fry - Don't even have to watch the clip. I know the one you are talking about...with the press corp.

Despite the fact that they were doing a parody of how far the press corp has reached to demonize her (I think you missed that point) it did nothing to help Obama.

mornin' all -

Ties? I quit wearing ties to work years ago, unless I have to be in court or something important like that. Oh, wait, you don't mean NECK ties? I can't even imagine how you could suggest a tie in the EC voting - after all, haven't we been told here time and time again that a landslide is in theoffing? No matter that the national polls are essentially tied. No matter that the leading folks who follow this stuff (I''l include RCP & CQ here) show scenarios that have McCain winning? Craig, you just don't have enough faith. LOL

Fry did you take the mischaracterization expressway this morning? Geez, man, get a grip.

Ref. my 7:57 post.

Can you imagine the total uproar by the Liberals and the MSM if this had been said of Michelle Obama?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/22/us/politics/22campaign.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

"But Mr. McCain said in an interview here with CNBC and The New York Times that he would press on with his plan to extend the Bush tax cuts and to cut others. Contrary to the warnings of fiscal analysts, he said he believed he could do so and balance the federal budget, which was falling deeper into deficit even before the financial crisis, by the end of his first term."

* * *

"And anything you do that would take more money from the American people who are hurting more now, I think, would be a serious mistake.”

It's never worked before - Reagan started this fantasy, it didn't work for him and it torpedoed Dumya's dad's chance at a second term. It hasn't worked for Dumya, and now McCain seems to think that despite his support for a bailout of our failed financial institutions to the tune of 5% of GDP, more tax cuts will do the trick - depsite the fact that none of the economic indicators support his pander to the Norquist crowd. And of course the only folks who are hurting and would be taxed more by Obama's plan are the top 5%, who aare doing just fine, thank you.

Finally a little more honesty in the reporting -- the bad debts
the taxpayer is buying now includes car loans, student loans and credit card (personal lines of credit) debt. Basically the we are nationalizing all our debt and rewarding bad behavior on the part of executives

KGC,,
Morning...
Who asked to buy that car they can not afford? Liviing in the house in a loan that now is to much?
This is the greatest transfer of wealth in the US History.
Yes the Executives feel for it and allowed these people to make a mistake.
Now I have to pay for Both of them .... BS
Fire the executive and put them on the street - they are no smarter then the buyer - who is also at fault

Fell for it

Ping
A lot of people could afford the car etc when they made the loan but increased costs of food, fuel and health care (and loss of a job or dimished salary) made it impossible to keep up the payments.

If Shrub had not wasted (not too mention literally lost) trillions of dollars is a ridiculous adventure in Iraq people might still be making those payments.

As far as I'm concerned the Bush family owes the rest of us a ton of money. You should be especially annoyed at Jeb - he sold the state of Fla crappy mortgage backed securities.

Jeb Bush is a PAID CONSULTANT for LEHMAN BROTHERS, the company that collapsed yesterday. He obtained the position with Lehman Brothers after having Florida purchase BILLIONS of DOLLARS of Lehman Brothers' mortgage backed securities that are now WORTHLESS.

As Governor, Jeb Bush was one of three administrators on the State Board of Administration (SBA) that agreed to let the state's retirement fund buy a series of mortgage-backed securities from Lehman Brothers that are now worthless. Jeb Bush also supported Lehman Brothers managing two funds for the SBA.

Jeb Bush's reward for supporting his corporate sponsor? a "Consulting" contract with Lehman Brothers. I wonder if JEB will get paid as Lehman Brothers goes into bankruptcy? LMAO You bet he will.

Craig! I just promised my husband I will wean my TV and politics news addiction in less than 45 days. An electorial tie on November 4th will not help me....

P-Nhut

Krugman is not enchanted with the $700B financial assistance plan that the Dumya admin is asking for, and he, as usual, makes some very good points about why it is not particularly good in its curent form.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/22/opinion/22krugman.html?hp

Ping, I wholeheartedly agree with the last half of your 8:54 post - and I do agree with the first part - it was the decision of the purchaser, borrower, etc., but in many instances they were misled by the lender, car dealer, etc. Shared responsibility IMO.

For me, this is the earliest that election paralysis has set in since 2000. Every time I thought, there's no way the Democrats could lose this, and every time (OK, it was only two times, but still ...) they have. It's like the Democrats are Bill Buckner and every election is Game Six of the 1986 World Series.

I have to focus all my attention on the economy rather than the election so as not to have to sit in a corner with my arms around my knees, rocking back and forth for hours in an attempt to purge my mind of all the nightmare scenarios.

Not that I'm dramatic about it or anything ...

Another reason people are willing to walk away from a home purchase is the tanking price. If you are underwater with your loan why fight to save it? It is far to easy to blame this mess on bad loans, bad borrowers and bad lenders when the real villian is the fake economy of the Shrubians.

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20080921/BUSINESS/809217115/1350?Title=Can_Washington_stop_falling_home_prices_

this article interviews some economists who offer alternative to the bailout for stablizing housing prices.

food, fuel and health care

Stop using food crops for fuels, would cut down on the price of everything.

Fuels, drill in your own backyard and not dependent on ME.

Health care. I love it when the term "heal;th care " just gets tossed out there without any specifications attached to it. How much are you willing to pay per month, what sort of deductible are you willing to absorb, who will decide who will be your primary doctor, does this include dental and eye care? What happens to people who are already covered by their own medical insurance, and who will be paying for illegal immigrants who are included in that number of individuals who who do not have health care? That is just for starters.

Even Bill Kristol has his concerns about the package. (God, am I quoting that conservative tool now?) If he doesn't back it, it must be bad.

"But is the administration’s proposal the right way to do this? It would enable the Treasury, without Congressionally approved guidelines as to pricing or procedure, to purchase hundreds of billions of dollars of financial assets, and hire private firms to manage and sell them, presumably at their discretion There are no provisions for — or even promises of — disclosure, accountability or transparency. Surely Congress can at least ask some hard questions about such an open-ended commitment."

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/22/opinion/22kristol.html?hp

KC, great observation about the root cause of the problem - Shrubian economics (recycled Reaganomics, a.k.a. Voodoo economics.) Why do I think we've seen this before?

And for those who think that Detroit is the only part of the auto industry beign pounded, think again. CarMax is on a losing streak as well.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/business/AP-Earns-CarMax.html

Pogo

It's as if the S and L crisis never happened. Apparently Paulson didn't learn anything from that.

Plus we aren't even talking about the impact on state and local government services. California just went through yet another budget nightmare and the economists say --next year will be worse because we are going to have even less revenue. We have the highest rates of unemployment and homelessness in years in Cal.

$700B financial assistance.

It is either that or another Great Depression. Really don't have a lot of choices. For those who think the financial institutes should have to deal with the bad loans and mortgages that were made, you may want to get to your banks and withdraw your money now, because such a plan would only cause a massive run on the banks.

I have apple trees. I'll take my chances with the great depression II. I think those chances are better then giving the money to the maroons in the WH....the same people who FUBAR'd everything they touched.

KC, the admin repugs do not want to bring up the S&L crisis for obvious reasons - Dumya has endorsed McCain, who wasn't exactly clean in that mess. The problem with this plan, at least as I see it, is that the admin wants the money - which as Fry points out is necessary to prevent even worse stuff from happening in the economy - without oversight. Maybe the Commece Committee could oversee the program - that way when Palin's luster fades adn McCain loses, he could oversee it like he helped with the S&L problem.

Penny Pritzker is Obama's Fiorina

Makes Fiorina look like a piker

After federal regulators closed the $2.3 billion Superior Bank in July 2001, investigations revealed that the suburban Chicago thrift was tainted with the hallmarks of a mini-Enron scandal. New legal developments are adding additional twists, including racketeering charges. And yet the bank’s owners, members if one of America’s wealthiest families, ultimately could end up profiting from the bank’s collapse, while many of Superior’s borrowers and depositors suffer financial losses.

***

Even taking into account the “record” settlement they made with the FDIC, the Pritzkers could make more than $700 million in additional profit for running a financial institution into the ground. They had already profited handsomely, sharing in the more than $200 million in dividends to the owners in the ’90s. They accomplished all this with an investment of about $21 million for each partner—though the Pritzkers had also already benefited from $645 million in tax credits.

You want a depression? You better have a gun to protect those apple tress from roving bands of hungry angry people.

"I have apple trees. I'll take my chances with the great depression II. I think those chances are better then giving the money to the maroons in the WH....the same people who FUBAR'd everything they touched."

I don't think we are anywhere near the depression, but we can easily be Ninties Japan after their realestate bubble burst.

Jack

socks,

Your not suppose to know about Penny Pritzker and her connection with Team BHO.

We already have angry hungry homeless people. Crime is up everywhere

Pogo
What could be worse? That the idiots on Wall Street could feel some of the pain of the people on Main street.
I'd rather wait until after the election to make any major corrections. Anyone who goes down before..tough nuggies.

There are buyers for a lot of the bad debt but the greedy corporate welfare queens don't want the discounts.

Looks like the market is heading south this morning dow down a 100 right now

Jack

Last week two posts converged, one with pogo asking;"Why is the race so tight, {rustbelt}, and Jamie's rejoinder of how "foolish" for Hill supporters to back McC, and it got me thinking anew.

During this weeks financial crisis McCain unwisely thrust himself into the mix, lacking forethought and appeared unpresidential giving me pause...Conversely Obama was reserved, surrounded himself with known economists and looked presidential which was politically wise. Obama's decision to stay above the fray won him the week, yet his statements were few and tepid, lacking leadership and resolve in a crisis, much like voting present.

I am supporting McCain by default, out of necessity. I find him ungifted with words, unexciting, but I do trust him on security matters and see him as reformer. Most on this site are quite critical of McC referring to him in summary as a, "crusty old warmonger who is like Bush but crazier." Although I have "never" criticized Obama in a like vain, I find the above sentiment telling. Which makes me ask this question; "In a democratic year, with the stars aligned so favorably, with Bush polling near absolute zero, with a mortgage crisis, raising unemployment, the Iraq war, how can the race be this close? How in bloody hell could this be happening? How?

How could McCain a "crusty old warmonger who is like Bush but crazier", have been ahead in the polls a week ago, and even after the worst banking crisis since the great depression, the polls show the two within the margin of error? How? According to my lights there are only two possibilities.

1. That McCains has the winning issues and charisma to defy events, history, and reason itself. I think not.
2. That Obama is simply a weak candidate.

If Hillary were the nominee she would have picked Obama as her VP, and I say that with certitude knowing that it would have been her ONLY option to unite the party and guarantee victory for her agenda and country. You would expect no less from a great leader, who would put aside all to insure the democrats win.

Since Obama lacked the courage to set aside his pride, tranquilize his wife, and pick Hillary as his VP he personally put this election in jeopardy. BO certainly didn't do what was best for "his party" and the issues that many hold so dear, he imperiled this critical race leaving it all to the caprice of events. Obama's myopic decision not to choose Hillary placed "pettiness over party", and all the issues including the Supreme Court were deigned subordinate to his vanity. "Obama. a weak man for tough times."

After all is said and done, it seems that the intrusion of the financial crisis may have indeed secured this election for the democrats, and I cannot pretend to welcome this untimely occurrence with unchecked glee.

PUMA/Clintons4McCain
toast

Obviously some here have no money, so financial institutions that go under will no affect them. There are numerous small banks in many small towns throughout America that are heavily connected to WS. If WS fails, the nation fails. Hope you don't choke on those apples.

Gee what if we had waited before going to war in Iraq?

And you want to give these clowns (who made the problem in the first place) 700 billion dollars

KGC

One thing about the ninties that was different than any goodtimes in my life. Even the unemployable we finding jobs.
I used to have one of the local drunks work for me when I needed an extra hand. He was the type that I would have to buy him a beer for his morning shakes, just so he could work, even then he was only good for 3 or 4 hours. In the late ninties he got a full time job and kept it until he showed up to work staggering drunk. Then he got another one.

Jack

Regional Banks in California and other places are already in trouble and not because of subprime loans but because they got caught up in Shrub's fake economy and made a lot of construction loans.

Financial institutions for the most part are insured so unless you are like Fry and keep your money in the back seat of a repo'd car, your money is safe. What a pile of poop to say it isn't. If they have 700 billion to buy crap assets --the fed will stand by insured bank accounts.

Fry is a bad Republican. He doesn't believe the fundamentals of the economy are strong and has no faith in Main street

Looks like both Obama and McCain are out of Missouri or a least spending less on ads Haven't been barraged with the negative morning ads on GMA.

Jack

Jack

Main Street in my town is in big trouble. At least three retailers (all of whom had been in business for at least five years and one 15 years) have closed. Unemployment is the county is at
6.1 the highest in 13 years.

http://www1.pressdemocrat.com/article/20080922/WIRE/809220318

Another look at mortgage issues

Well most of those assets are in the form of real estate. If the government can buy the bad loans, and as I understand it, it is not all bad debt that will be bought, but if the government can pay $.0.60 on the dollar, and hold onto them and sell them down the road for 80% of face value not only do they make money, but whoever buys the real estate will get a good deal.

Last time I looked Calif had a lot of over price real estate and those who sold their home for $500K 2 years ago, those same type homes in the same neighborhoods are selling for 40% less now, or $300K.

McCain is now starting his chicago machine Ads, to which I agree.
From politico

--The McCain cranks up “Chicago Machine,” with a sinister-voiced narrator and blackened photos: “Barack Obama. Born of the corrupt Chicago political machine. … His economic adviser, William Dale – lobbyist, Mayor's brother. His money man, Tony Rezko – client, patron, convicted felon. His ‘political godfather” Emil Jones -- under ethical cloud. His governor, Rod Blagojevich -- a legacy of federal and state investigations. With friends like that, Obama is not ready to lead.”

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/the-electoral-tie-scenarios.html#comment-148932

I may not want to know about the connection and may not approve (in fact, it confirms things I've thought all along) but making someone your national campaign finanace chair isn't exactly an attempt to hide her. LOL

McCain looked like an idiot being backed into a corner by Meredith Viera (not exactly the Ghengis Khan of the morning news shows) about Fiorina's golden parachute - claiming he didn't know the details and thought she did a good job with parts of HP's business while she was there - yep, the part she did a good job with was negotiating that package after driving HP value down by 50% and lording (or ladying) over 10-20K layoffs. I guess in light of that her opinion that Palin isn't qualified to run a major corporation may not mean all that much - given her obvious lack of ability to do so herself - although it could be a takes one to know one sort of thing.

There are plenty of private firms willing to buy the bad debt but not for .60 why should taxpayers pay the premium to bail them out.

And let them fail first...like the S and L crisis. It worked for the resolution trust and it can work now.

The 20k lost jobs at HP were a result of the merger between HP and Compaq and that was jobs from both firms. HP shareholders if asked today would say Fiorina did a good job.

Viera showed herself to be a hack because McCain never said he opposed executive bonuses etc just no rewards to executives in this crisis.

Gotcha journalism based on factless nonsense.

Today on blistersyeahbutchannel

Bailouts for Dummies and by Dummies and with Dummies
Democrats Prepare to FISA the Bailout!

Jason

Good news and good luck on just three more pages..

Just think about that vacation awaiting the finish of all your hard work. Hope your folks are doing well.

Julie

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3870/is_11_22/ai_n27015746

The success of Fiorina
What value did Pritzker add to the economy? A lot of retirees had to return to the workforce.

So we are in deep shit with the economy and the most interesting question put to a presidential candidate is about one individuals compensation package.
LOL
Maroons

I listened to NPR yesterday and they were talking to a professor at Columbia School of Journalism. She had only 4 students in in her business journalism class.

A basic problem with Journalism they are as ignorant as the rest of us.

Jack

While it may be akin to political fools gold, Florida looks like it's tightening.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/fl/florida_mccain_vs_obama-418.html

But I still can't see it going for Obama, especially when the old farts start trekking down there from the northern climes.

"Democrats Prepare to FISA the Bailout!"

Yep, guttless wonders

Jack

Actually KGC I do believe in the fundamental of the American economy are strong compared to the rest of the world. The country that is in crisis, and was given very little coverage last week, is Russia. They had to close their stock exchanges for 2 days. the Micex fell over 17% in 1 day. Overnight bank rates are at 10.83%

According to Business Week, their stock market collapse occurred when investors borrowed money to buy stock during the bull cycle, and found themselves forced to put up collateral when prices fell, and the only place they could get collateral was to sell more stock. A perpetual sell-off.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic-art/243118/97369/Man-selling-apples-during-the-Great-Depression#assembly=url~http%3A%2F%2Fwww.britannica.com%2FEBchecked%2Ftopic-art%2F243118%2F97369%2FMan-selling-apples-during-the-Great-Depression

My stand will be nicer and offer wifi and of course I have a very cute dog so I think I will do very well with my speciality apples -gravensteins and I have pears, plums. peaches and figs too.

Going to look for scrap wood now.

sock, absolutely - neither campaign has wisely chosen someof its financial advisors - although in fairness, Pritzker's role is to raise money - and she does have the ability to squeeze blood from a stone, at least for herself. Fiorina's role is to advise McCain - and she too, has the ability to squeeze blood from a stone, at least for herself, if that's what we want our would-be president's financial advisors to be able to do - and I don't think so - John chose wisely.

Then McCains manager should know the inside and help clean that crap up... as supported by Dodd and Obama -

And let them fail first...like the S and L crisis. is a drop in the ocean compared to this.

"private firms willing to buy the bad debt but not for .60"

What $.10 on the dollar? I know how this game is played, and those willing to sell assets at such a ridiculous price are the loans and mortgages that are so overly encumbered with debt, or are just plain bad real estate holdings such as the ocean front property found in Nevada. Like I said before Miami has such a glut of condos they will be selling them for years to come.

Mr. Pogo

Pritzker directly contributed and benefited from the subprime crisis. Fiorina is another Wall Street hack but in the end the business she ran is alive and thriving. Superior Bank is history still paying one of the largest fines every levied.

Pritzker walked away with a giant TARP.

Fry

You think .10 is the price only a bottom feeder would pay?
But you are happy to let the tax payers sign on for $.60

Come over here and sit by me I have a piece of land I would like you to look at....

KGC

The nice thing about living in Kansas City is we don't suffer the economic swing that other places do. Our employment is not dependent on anyone industry we are very diversified. That means we never haver great big booms but we also don't suffer any of the busts either. I talked to a couple from Michigan who rented a house next to the one I'm rehabbing. They tell me we have no problems compared to Michigan. He went out and found a job his first week.

Jack

Jack,

"So we are in deep shit with the economy and the most interesting question put to a presidential candidate is about one individuals compensation package.
LOL"

No, that's not the most interesting question that could be asked re: McCain, and wasn't. He gave the same blahblahblah tax cuts, tax cuts, tax cuts BS when asked about fixing the economy, acting as if his plan is going to help americans who are in such pain, when he meant that his plan would help the rich while the middle class and poor are in such pain. But I digress. It isn't even the most interesting question as far as Fiorina goes - the more interesting question would be about the decline in HP's value and her layoffs for HP workers - but it does put McCain's choice of a top economic advisor into pretty clear focus and puts his lack of vetting (AGAIN) into very clear focus.

So Fry, What will the fundamentals look like if the World market systems collapse?

A lot of the bacon and beans put on the dinner table around here come from my wife's job which is dependent on international trade.

Jack

Sock, Fiorina's ex employer is IMHO doing well because she was fired - remember, she was fired because of the poor performance of the company. I'm not standing up for Pritzker, she's a slime and I think hiring her was another boneheaded move by Obama. Now if you're standing up for Fiorina, you better consider how many firms of any sort or size could absorb a 50% reduction in its value and continue to operate. I'd say HP is alive today in spite of Fiorina, and in no way because of her having been there.

For my earlier post.

If you Liberals thought last weeks remarks by the ever brilliant, the beautiful, the so called comedian Sandra Bernhard were hysterical, suggesting Sarah Palin "would be gang-raped by my big black brothers" if she came to Manhattan, then you must be still rollicking this morning over Saturdays SNL skit.

http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=75852

Can you imagine the total uproar by the Liberals and the MSM if this "parody" had been about Michelle Obama?

Where are all the national feminists to condemn such racist, sexist words. Why isn't NOW not marching on NBC?
Odd how NOW and other leading feminist groups chose to shield their eyes and clasp their hand over their ears when such racist, sexist things are directed to a R female and her daughters.

Just goes to prove my point that Liberals, are such hypocrites.

Sorry pogo

It doesn't change my point.
Why was Fiorina even being discussed? Because the reporter can't ask a real question on the economy. So it falls back on the politics of personality. That is why McCain and Obama Feel free to talk pablum and blather.

KGC,
You need any investors. Always looking for a good project.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/the-electoral-tie-scenarios.html#comment-148970

Pot meet Mr kettle

Jack

Politico - Dems say won't be fooled again

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13706.html

McCain can go on about being a "maverick", but he is as guilty as all the other Repugs who have been picking the public's pockets for decades. The Steal as much as you can before getting caught crowd now wants a bail out and they want it in a hurry. Forget it. Somewhere after we have a new President and Congress, if they still need help, we can talk.

Yes, sock, HP's stock went from $65 to $11 under Fiorina's guidance - it's now at about $48. If you bought after Fiorina drove it into the tank, you think you are a genius. If you're still holding your pre-Fiorina stock, not so much.

Jack, I only saw a little of Meredith's interview with McCain - in fairness to Meredith she did ask him a couple of substantive questions and he answered with his same BS talking points. The Fiorina stuff was follow-up. She didn't grill him on the substantive plans for the economy - which I would have liked to see - but like I said, Meredith is not the biggest slash and burn morning show interviewer. But then again, who is? I'd like to see a Paul Krugman or someone like him from a more middle position ask both candidates about the economy - at this point I don't know whether either of them has a clue (although it's clear to me that McCain doesn't).

So Fry, What will the fundamentals look like if the World market systems collapse?

Jack,
Ask KGC, she is planing on selling apples, providing she is able to defend her apples trees.

But in a real world I would suspect this would cause a total collapse of civil order, resulting in mass rioting, anarchy would be the order of the day in your major cities, just not enough of police or military to stop them. All you have to do is look at the LA riots, and that was only 1 city. Smaller outside communities may or may not do any better. Again this is something some here would like to see. The total collapse of America. Those of you who don't believe in guns ownership may want to reconsider purchasing a gun, and learn how to use it. As Paulson said yesterday, "there is no guarantee this will $700 billion plan will work." Lets hope it does.

Rez

Partners?? I'm in the Chez Cracker Rancheria and Casino
I won't need my apple stand --just a couple of slots!

LOL@ KC

Yeah, I was just wondering how bingo cards, poker chips, and cigarettes tasted. Maybe in a good stew to keep from choking.

Mr. Pogo

we are arguing about the evil of two lessers aren't t we?

Fry

Why would there be any more riots then happened in the 30's?
I think you have been reading too much apocalyptic fiction.
It is not poverty that causes unrest but unequal good times. If we are all in the same boat no problem but if I believe you to be in a better one and you are keeping me keeping me in the leaky sinking one, then you can't buy enough ammo.

Jack

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/the-electoral-tie-scenarios.html#comment-148935

Milquetoast,
I found myself agreeing with your well thought and thorough post.
Thanks for writing it.

"Just goes to prove my point that Liberals, are such hypocrites."
Posted by: FryDaddy Author Profile Page | September 22, 2008 10:53 AM

Fry, I don't think I can agree with you that all Liberals are hypocrites. But I will say that 'some people' can be hypocritical at times. Maybe all of us.

'Again this is something some here would like to see. The total collapse of America'

Haven't we already seen the collapse? Now we are seeing the rich pick over the bones of the disaster.

sock, I'm not arguing - at least not for the lesser of the 2 - I think they're both pond scum and neither should be involved in the campaigns if the candidates' heads weren't up their asses so far.

http://www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12263158

Flatus, Thanks for linking that Economist article yesterday. You are right, it really is worth the read. I'm relinking it just in case.

Posted by: Jason | September 22, 2008 6:21 AM

Jason, I join Julie in wishing you good luck on your last three pages. Let us know when you've finished.!

Sorry you're bored with the election, but I can understand it.

AFter all the vote suppression of 2000 and 2004, you might like to check out "Steal Back Your Vote"

http://www.stealbackyourvote.com/

The shadow banking system is unravelling
""The real economic side of this financial crisis will be a severe US recession. Financial contagion, the strong euro, falling US imports, the bursting of European housing bubbles, high oil prices and a hawkish European Central Bank will lead to a recession in the eurozone, the UK and most advanced economies.

European financial institutions are at risk of sharp losses because of the toxic US securitised products sold to them; the massive increase in leverage following aggressive risk-taking and domestic securitisation; a severe liquidity crunch exacerbated by a dollar shortage and a credit crunch; the bursting of domestic housing bubbles; household and corporate defaults in the recession; losses hidden by regulatory forbearance; the exposure of Swedish, Austrian and Italian banks
to the Baltic states, Iceland and southern Europe where housing and credit bubbles financed in foreign currency are leading to hard landings.

Thus the financial crisis of the century will also envelop European financial institutions.
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/the-electoral-tie-scenarios.html

Here They Go Again
"Rovean tactics alone do not win the Republican Party elections. This is a center-right country, and Democrats ignore this at their own peril."

"To Democrats it simply does not make sense. The past eight years, with Republicans in control of the White House, have, they say, been disastrous for America. The military is beleaguered and beaten down after two long and taxing wars. The nation, they go on, has been disgraced in the eyes of the world. The economy has collapsed. The financial system is broken. Eighty percent of voters believe the nation is on the wrong track. Yet, a month and a half before the November election, the Democratic nominee for the presidency only slightly leads the Republican standard bearer in most polls. The GOP, in spite of everything, might somehow be able to hold on to power.

How could this possibly be?

....With six weeks left in the campaign, Democrats will find more luck imagining this new consensus than they will in imagining the evils of Karl Rove."
http://www.newsweek.com/id/160083

Chloe

I like this sentence in that link you reposted.

"AIG is mostly a safe, well-run insurer. But its financial-products division, which accounted for just a fraction of its revenues, wrote enough derivatives contracts to destroy the firm and shake the world"

It sums up the eightball we are all behind. We trust banks to act in a conservative prudent self interested manner. What wasn't realised that the Industry has disconected the decision making from the risk taking
Those making risk decisions weren't going to pay any price for loses. They get their bonuses as usual.

Jack

Jack,
Since you're here.....I really enjoyed your posts yesterday and last evening. You know a lot more about the economy than I do. I only know what I read and what I see around me.

Summary and off to work.....

Sen Obama wins the vote of those that run for the ice truck before the winds die down. (Trained by the Dems to depend on the Governement)

Sen McCain wins the vote of the people that prepare and are self-sufficient.

The race will be decided by those between

Posted by: Ping Pong Author Profile Page | September 22, 2008 6:53 AM

Ping Pong, if that's true, why is McCain calling for bailouts of the Big 3 auto makers? Even George Will says they are in the mess they are because they didn't prepare for a change in the market...

McCain and the Republican party are all for smaller government until it's needed to bail them out.

Look at Neil Bush and the S & L's...

Look at Rush demanding drug abusers be jailed until it was his ass on the line.

McCain intervened during the Keating affair to protect a constituent from regulation and then jumped on the clean gov't bandwagon to save his tarnished reputation.

The battle for votes in Pennsylvania's Clinton country

"This year, the economy trumps social issues in blue-collar Scranton. That should mean advantage, Democrat. But what does it really mean when local voters say they don't "know" Obama?"
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/09/22/pennsylvania/

Have a good day!

Pogo,

With regards to this post...Posted by: pogo Author Profile Page | September 22, 2008 10:50 AM

She was fired for her wiretapping of her Board of Directors among others at HP...

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/worldbiz/archives/2006/09/07/2003326601

HP embroiled in wiretapping controversy
LEAKS AND BUGS: The company said chairwoman Patricia Dunn authorized the monitoring of home phones and cellphones of members of the board of directors

NY TIMES NEWS SERVICE, SAN FRANCISCO
Thursday, Sep 07, 2006, Page 10

The board dispute was reported on Tuesday in an article on Newsweek's Web site by David Kaplan, who is writing a book about a yacht that Perkins recently had built.

The article said Dunn, who was named chairwoman after Fiorina's ouster, had authorized a team of independent electronic-security experts to monitor the phone communications of the 10 other directors.

HP said its legal counsel had advised her that the surveillance was legal and proper.

The company said that it began the investigation last year after news reports quoted directors about dissatisfaction with Fiorina's management.

Not Fiorina ..from the link posted. Got to read what you post

Then Obama had better make sure they know McCain.

crackers - Lots of good stuff for connect-the-dots ads for Obama to go negative on McCain with no honest way for Mac to defend his actions.

Best put this morning by MoJo re: every time we have had a huge, financial fiasco since McCain was on the scene, he was in the stinking middle of it.

Perhaps when cutting and pasting you would want to include these sentence from that link...

* "The concern over leaks began in the months preceding Carly Fiorina's ouster as chief executive last year, the company said. "

* "The HP board began an investigation into news leaks after forcing Fiorina to resign in February last year. "

And from here...

http://www.directioninformatique.com/IT/client/en/CDN/News.asp?id=41710

As for Fiorina's story, well, this will be one that would have pleased former FBI chief and wiretap-lover J. Edgar Hoover.

It turns out that under Fiorina's watch certain high-tech journalists and HP board members were being watched.

She hired lawyers to question board members. But when Fiorina was relieved of her duties at HP the leaks continued.

http://www.directioninformatique.com/IT/client/en/CDN/News.asp?id=41710

Let's just hope Obama prepares some nice segues from foreign policy to the economy for the debate. The two are not mutually exclusive and, you know, strike while the iron is hot & all that.

Fiorina was not fired for wire tapping - your assertion.

But facts are not your long suite lol

Thought I would pass this on.

How much attention is the average American paying attention?

I just went to the autoparts store and got in a discussion with the store clerk about banks , credit cards ect. He started it. when he ask if I wanted credit or debit.

When a customer in ragged cut offs and a greasy shirt is talking to the autoparts clerk about it then America is paying close attention.
When American start paying attention , politicians beware.

Jack

News Bumps -
http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/22/when-two-wars-just-arent-enough/

That wasn't the only reason she got fired sock... Because it wasn't the only reason she got fired, you can't dismiss it as such. It was the final nail in the coffin.

I know you and Fry are among the vast group that will dismiss points of fact if they don't mesh with your own views. Even if you don't agree with the facts, it doesn't make them less true.

For those of you wondering what they were talking about in the mortgage industry back in 2004 and 2005, here is a link to Ken Harney, a columnist who writes about the mortgage business. I get his weekly column now from the TAB but these are from his days writing for the WaPo...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/business/columns/realestate/harneykennethr/

Chloe

Saw some of the Ike devastion on the Texas Khou website. Wow, Lots of work and may help the economy if people can recieve any money from their insurance companies. Lol.
Hope you are now at home and not too much damage.

Julie

You can try to spin the firing any way you want but Fioriano was not fired for wiretaping the board and your attempts to justify your crap are lame.

The wiretaping came later, from Chairwoman Dunn who ended up in court over it. Do all white women look alike to you?

You assert facts that aren't true and then get your panties all wadded up when someone disputes it. Yes I am dismissing your assertion which is not backed up by a single fact

http://capitalism4good.typepad.com/blog/2007
/03/hp_wiretapping_.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_HP_spying_scandal

You know all of this because you were on the HP board????

Fiarono

Chloe, any idea when they say your power will be back? I know some working for National Grid think mid October for most...

This has nothing to do with her firing - but Carly should take a class in logic. Two women, one suggested to be lacking in substance, one not, and the suggestion that one is lacking in substance is sexist? As compared to another WOMAN? Good god!

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/15/fiorina-calls-snl-impersonation-of-palin-sexist/

Maybe she should stick to advising on the economy.

Neither link works that you provided. Had you used this one instead, your case would be better made.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/15/AR2007031500224_pf.html

What I find confusing is that the stories I have read that state Dunn ordered the activity, also state that the practice began while Fiorina was still in charge.

I'm sure some would argue that it's rather convenient that the person named in the suit had the charges dropped due to a cancer diagnosis. Were the people involved named Bill or Hillary Clinton, I wonder how long it would have taken for Ken Starr to argue the criminal acts and the charges predate the disease and as such, the case should go forward.

It looks like the bailout plan will also help out OPEC and Exxon...

Oil Jumps Near $114 as Bailout Weighs on Dollar
http://www.cnbc.com/id/26825075

"Saw some of the Ike devastion on the Texas Khou website. Wow, Lots of work and may help the economy if people can recieve any money from their insurance companies. Lol.
Hope you are now at home and not too much damage."
Posted by: Julie Young Author Profile Page | September 22, 2008 1:17 PM

Hey Julie,
No doubt it will help the economy here in the future but right now it still not going well around here, at least for us yet. They talk like everyones got their power back, but we don't. And we missed out on a week or so of work (although my husband is working today). Things are definitely not back to normal here yet though. FEMA and the power companies, etc., seem to do some false reporting to make things look better than they are. I have no complaints (not many, any way) but I think the Bush Administration is more interested in keeping the media reporting what a good job they're doing this time (after the Katrina botch job) than anything else. They never forget it's an election year and now that I've gotten to see this up close and personal, I realize more than ever (unfortunately) how manipulated we all are. Nothing is as it seems, if you listen to the MSM.

I think everyone's doing the best they can, but still, things don't get reported too accurately.

Hope things are going well with you.

I listened to a local public radio show interview Susan Estridge, I was suprised at how pissed she was at the mysogynistic treatment Palin was getting from the left.

She made a valid point, nobody votes for the VP and it is a losing campaign who runs around spouting the "heart beat from the presidency" crap. On that last one she should know.

Jack

Is Susan Estrich the one who works for Fox News and sounds like Carol Channing?

Ok everyone, here it is.. Double indemnity - real clear politics... The Obama - Obama to a T with the i's dotted and t's crossed..

http://savagepolitics.com/?p=1839

Is anybody voting for Fiarono?

No, so is there nothing else going on today?

Jack

Chloe, any idea when they say your power will be back? I know some working for National Grid think mid October for most..."

Bear, I hadn't hear that. I guess I'm not listening to the right sources. Many have their power back already. (Not our house though). My husband's down in Houston today, and say's things are starting to look pretty normal. And we don't have to wait in line for gas any more, so I really can't complain (although I still do):)

Chloe,

Good luck down there. I know someone who worked for the electric company for 40 years and he thought before the storm hit that the last places to come back online wouldn't have power until mid November. He was thinking mid 6-8 weeks to get the stretch between Houston and Beaumont up.

If theirs a bright spot, the grid will at least get some updating down there. If only they could bury the lines like they do in downtown Houston, the outages would be shorter...so long as there isn't flooding.

What kind of damage did you get? Wind, water or both?

Susan Estrich(thanks for the correction)

Who has been there and done that (more than you and I can say)
and is selling the book.

Jack

I got through part of that link Julie, but I'll have to finish when I get back from lunch. So far, I like it. Thanks!

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/the-electoral-tie-scenarios.html#comment-149029

bear, yep.

President Clinton was great on the View today. He is so articulate. Every time he speaks, I learn something.
Like Hillary, there is such a depth of knowledge and understanding of the issues.

What a dopey country when we end up with Obama and McCain.

Hello all.. it's around 8 pm here in Belgium, where it appears our government is on the verge of collapse again.

Craig, I found your blog very informative ! I had no idea what would happen with a electoral tie. Are we predicting this might very well be the scenario after the election?

I personally would love to see an electoral tie for one reason and one reason only... I think the District of Columbia should have the right to cast an electoral vote !!!

I assume that DC, having no Senators or a Representative, also does not have an electoral vote in elections? This seems awfully undemocratic to me. American citizens, all of them, should have votes that count and equal representation. Please correct me if I've misunderstood DC's role in Presidential voting.

Now if we can clear the “Just Words” and people can determine the True American Values and direction of each ticket – I do not think it will be close
Posted by: Ping Pong | September 22, 2008 6:24 AM

People who profess to know "True American Values" scare me. Ping, perhaps you could illuminate what your take on this is? We might even agree.

Julie,

The only problem with such an article is that one could make it about John McCain and question him on such similar topics.

The pledge of allegiance? Even Pat Buchanan applauded Obama for stopping his speech when it was pointed out they didn't say the pledge. He said he thought it was done, apologized and asked the kids who spoke up to lead the pledge.

Rezko-Keating
Wright-Hagee

Blame Obama for adopting others positions? Isn't that what Bill Clinton did with his triangulation? He co-opted fiscal responsibility and welfare reform from Republicans.

Flag Pin, McCain doesn't wear his anymore...what's the big deal?

Obama stealing Clinton's and McCain's message? Neither one of them cared about using change as a message until they saw it polled well.

Violating the Logan act? I wonder how the candidate who will get blamed for losing the war in Iraq by pulling out too early is now guilty of keeping them their longer for personal gain...if that's the case, why isn't Bush on trial for putting them there to begin with, with McCain's help, for personal gain?

The fact that we are such a polarized country is the reason why ultimately McCain's campaign making it about personality over policy is why he will win. They are basically the same except who wins out on their team is different.

The question will be would you rather drive an older, worn down Mercedes or a newer, loaded Hyundai? If you want the status of the name, you take McCain. If you want the benefits of the newer car with the brand that was shaky but is now one of the best on the road...you take Obama...

Summary and off to work.....

Sen Obama wins the vote of those that run for the ice truck before the winds die down. (Trained by the Dems to depend on the Governement)

Sen McCain wins the vote of the people that prepare and are self-sufficient.

The race will be decided by those between
Posted by: Ping Pong | September 22, 2008 6:53 AM

Sorry, but that is just BULLSHT... The great irony is that it was a great Democrat who saved the capitalist system in America during WWII... President Franklin Delano Roosevelt created the New Deal, not to stop people from being self-sufficient, but to create a social net necessary to end the real possibility of a societal meltdown and revolution. Not everyone who is receiving government assistance is bad you know. When my parents divorced, we were on welfare for a while... I think it was called Aid to Families with Dependent Children. And may I say "thank god" for that program! It wasn't a lack of desire to be "self sufficient", it was a reality that the economic position of the American woman, at that time, when divorcing, was precarious at best and many mothers and children would have been on the streets without it.

I wonder Ping, if you shudder at the thought that "natural selection" was not allowed to run its course and let those less fortunate, or in dire straights, be abandoned by the richest country in the world. Ebeneezer Scrooge would certainly admire your position. "Are their no workhouses?" "Are their no debtor's prisons?"

Right about now, it's time to tout a single-payer healthcare system--while the fear of more insurance failures is palpable.

The candidate who supports the insurers will (finish the sentence).

Posted by: Flatus | September 22, 2008 7:36 AM

Flatus I agree. Of course the right will label it "socialist" and all but imply that Red China and the Soviet Union are behind it, even though the U.S.S.R. doesn't exist anymore. Medical care should be for just that... it should not be for financial profit and windfalls.

EVERYONE LISTEN UP... I'M GIVING YOU ALL AN IMPORTANT ASSIGNMENT:

This is for Ping, Fry and the usual right wing suspects. It's also for the left, and the center who want to see significant PROGRESSIVE change in our country It's Iris DeMent singing her song "Wasteland of the Free" ... Please listen because she is sooo spot on with this song...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuEWBlChry4

Goddammit if you guys listen to no other you tube video, listen to this one ok?

and AFTER listening, read the lyrics here: http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Wasteland-of-the-Free-lyrics-Iris-Dement/F82FD1C234B316AA48256E280031FF21

I would LOVE to hear comments from our motley crew of passionate Crawford Trail Mixers on this song and what it has to say.

"When a customer in ragged cut offs and a greasy shirt is talking to the autoparts clerk about it then America is paying close attention.
When American start paying attention , politicians beware." Jack@12:56 PM

Oh, you've got that right. Stinky and I stopped by the PX this morning. We met someone we know, not really well, and almost immediately she went into a rant about bailing out the $17,000 AN HOUR weasels.

OK, with all this sniping back and forth over Fiorina and this and that, HAPPY AUTUMNAL EQINOX. This day only comes once a year and I wouldn't want the official start of the season of the leaf peepers to go un heralded.

EQUINOX?? damn typos.

If your White, and don't vote for BHO it means only one of 2 things. You are either A "RACIST", or more than likely you have common sense and can see this fool is nothing more than an empty suit, who is nothing more than a push to the front of the line Affirmative Action DNC candidate.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2008/09/22/2008-09-22_poll_barack_obama_could_lose_six_percent.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/23/business/worldbusiness/23lehman.html

http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/22/mufg-to-buy-stake-in-morgan-stanley/index.html?hp

Hmmm, Nomura, Mitsubishi buying up chunks of Lehman and Morgan-Stanley - is that what they mean by outsourcing?

Pakistan troops 'repel US raid'

Pakistani troops have fired warning shots at two US helicopters forcing them back into Afghanistan, local Pakistani intelligence officials say.

The helicopters flew into the tribal North Waziristan region from Afghanistan's Khost province at around midnight, the reports say
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7628890.stm

Since the fake bailout is sucking up all the news who does it benefit when this story gets no traction.

Good call Pogo
We need to salute the leaf peeper.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080922/ap_on_re_eu/eu_russia_venezuela

"Russian navy ships head to maneuvers in Venezuela "

"The Kremlin recently has moved to intensify contacts with Venezuela, Cuba and other Latin American nations amid increasingly strained relations with Washington"

Just some reality, Russia is getting feisty, A sign of our lose of power.

You want a depression? You better have a gun to protect those apple tress from roving bands of hungry angry people.

Posted by: FryDaddy | September 22, 2008 9:40 AM

Fry if the bailouts are only for the rich and ownership classes, you gonna need the same thing... because bailing out those classes will NOT address the needs of the unemployed and "roving bands of hungry angry people"

WASTELAND OF THE FREE...

Oh yeah, Iris DeMent is country/Folk

Thomas Freeman, or better know these day as ET,

Are you getting upset, your cursing.

Fry I think there may be some daylight between those two positions.

Pogo

It is a fire sale, great oportunity to aquire some good assets. Not all the company was worthless.
Also It is a world economy. and If I had dollars I would be buying things with them. talk is the dollars is going on the skids again. Stagflation here we come.

Jack

You D's won't like this, so I don't expect for you to read it, but some open minded ones may.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aSKSoiNbnQY0

Jack
ut ohhhh
are we in for a Bay of Higuerote moment.

I'd be just as happy if we gave up our leader of the free world mantle and let some other George do it.

Yes, KC, we do. In Vemont they are also known as cone eaters, thanks to Ben and Jerry's, many of whom spend at least part of their summer driving up and down the Maine coast from L.L. Bean to lobster pound to antique store to ice cream stand. I get quite the kick out of seeing busloads of them driving through WV - as if they don't have leaves where they live.

Obviously some here have no money, so financial institutions that go under will no affect them. There are numerous small banks in many small towns throughout America that are heavily connected to WS. If WS fails, the nation fails. Hope you don't choke on those apples.

Posted by: FryDaddy | September 22, 2008 9:50 AM

One more point... It is a shame that the Repugs allowed so much banking deregulation since the 80s. The consolidation of smaller banks into mega-giants has not served the financial interests of the average American. The rich and super rich have made out like bandits... well basically they are bandits.

However, I do not want a Depression to happen in America! My family is there and I want them to continue to have enough money to keep their homes and put food on the table. Also, if America goes in Depression the rest of the world economy follows. That's a fact simply because of the girth and mirth of the USA and it's economy.

Jack: Russia is getting crazy. They are saying they will have the right to attack Poland if the USA's anti-missile defense system is placed there. Of course Russia has become more and more corrupt since the dissolution of the U.S.S.R. Ex-KGB agents are now part of the Russian mafia, Russian gangs roam around Europe, and now it comes out that the Russian President, under instructions of Putin, have ordered businessmen in Russia to move to Belgium and set up companies there and also to buy other ones. Ironic since my contract with the oil company that owns my shop/station is now Russian. But it must be said it was a sale encouraged by the American firm Conoco-Phillips which is now 20% owner of LukOil, so nothing terribly nefarious there!

It's been a crazy day at work and will remain so this week. We are offering 12 cents discount per litre off the official Belgian price for gasoline and diesel... BUSY BUSY BUSY

Silly Europeans, and I do mean silly. Obviously they forgot about the junk mortgages that line their portfolios.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-euromood20-2008sep20,0,7535469.story

American Enterprise Institute
Rubber Chicken with two right wings

The silly Europeans are not losing their houses and being tossed out in the streets like the ever SMART Americans Fry.

"as if they don't have leaves where they live."

They must be Californians.
Where I live..our only leaf color is grape vines

HP and Microsoft are buying up their own stock.
Good way to bulk up.

Thomas Freeman, or better know these day as ET,

Are you getting upset, your cursing.

Posted by: FryDaddy | September 22, 2008 3:10 PM

You don't need to use my full name on the blog Fry... "ET" is a moniker that folks here started to use... I just accepted it.

I was hesitant to use the adjective I used, but B.S. is what it is.. Still I took the "i" out so it reads as "bullsht" --- it was a moment of slight self-censorship. I did think of changing the word, but it just described my opinion at the moment I wrote my passionate post.

Welcome to the Wasteland of the Free...

Go Iris!

Fry,

In my experience, the only people who ever cared about being called racists were the one who were and were afraid to own up to it.

If you aren't voting against him because he's black or he's gay...who cares. You have your reasons and stick to them. It's no different than being called sexist for not liking Clinton or Palin. It is possible to just hate a candidate.

Where people run into trouble is when they try to tell others how they should vote. As I've said before, overt racists are easy to deal with.

The only difference between Montgomery in the 60's and Boston in the 70's is that the people yelling nigger at the school kids in Boston whites living in the "Liberal Capital of the World", had different accents than the folks in Alabama and the south

HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON
Women's Group Condemns NOW Endorsement of Obama
Updated 2:37 p.m.
By Garance Franke-Ruta
A group of Hillary Clinton supporters condemned the National Organization for Women's endorsement of Sens. Barack Obama and Joe Biden earlier this week.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/20/womens_group_condemns_now_endo.html?hpid=topnews

Most of you know that I was as passionate as could be about Hillary for President and I still lament Barack Obama's decision to choose Joe Biden as his running mate and ignoring the power of the "Dream Team" Obama/Clinton . But the "feminists" who are complaining about NOW's endorsement of Obama/Biden are wrong!

Here is another analysis.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-feminist-palin-thinksep21,0,1435363.story

Palin is the antithesis of feminism. NOW made the correct decision.

Wasteland of the Free.

"I'd be just as happy if we gave up our leader of the free world mantle and let some other George do it."

I would just like to see a more Intellegent version of it than I've seen in the last 8 years. It is a role we are kinda stuck with as nobody else wants it and the alternative is the Russian or Chinese mafia.

About the Russians, One thing that is very American is protecting our turf. we have been regarding the Americas as our turf since the Monroe doctrine. Many of those years as our personal plaything. So when I see a headline that says, foreign warships in the western hemishere, I tend to get concerned.

Jack

Fry,

That's an interesting link to the Bloomberg story. I wonder why they absolve Greenspan of any responsibility since it was he who cut rates to such a ridiculously low level that it made the pricing of Sub Prime and Alt A loans cheaper than Fannie and Freddie loans.

It was he who suggested that Americans were losing money in fixed rate mortgages...

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/fed/2004-02-23-greenspan-debt_x.htm

While he was correct in his assessment on the surface, it's only true of borrowers who work to prepay their mortgages.

If you never overpay your payment, you should only be in a Fixed rate only. Same if you need monthly cost certainty.

If you always pay more on your payment, the ARM is best because when you reach the balance point, even if rates continue higher, your payment can start to come down since you are ahead of the amortization schedule.

He said later he didn't understand what he was advocating since he didn't understand the risk involved.

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/P73977.asp

jack, I'm wit' ya. If I had a few, well, more than a few bucks, I'd be buying.. I wonder if there''s any cheap financing out there for such a purchase? Hmmm.

Talk about hypocritical, Fry. You on the one hand condemn (individual) borrowers for borrowing when they couldn't afford what they were buying, and on the other hand you condemn Congress for not preventing the lenders from causing the collapse of the (institutional) borrowers by buying their loans. Whose fault is it this moment? Congress, underwriters, lenders, borrowers? So since an ineffectual Republican Senate couldn't bring up a vote, it's the Dems' fault? They were able to get every other piece of cockamamie BS passed that they brought up - the funding for the Iraq war after it became unpopular and tax cuts for the wealthy as just two examples - I suggest there was little will on the part of the Repug leadership to move the bill. I understand there is a longer version of that article at the Village Voice - ElRushbo was creaming himself over it.

And now, I must go to the next soccer game - everyon ehave a good one.

Contrarian Chronicles
Don't take mortgage advice from Alan Greenspan

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/P73977.asp

Greenspan's Call to ARMs

Alan Greenspan's Call to ARMs Could Put You in Great Financial Dange

http://biz.yahoo.com/pfg/e03greenspan/

ET

Better get used to it Palin is the new post feminism. In reality it is what many were working for they just didn't think it would come in that package.

Jack

This story has to be wrong because it starts out listing John "Yes Teresa Dear" Kerry as being the riches man in Congress. During his 2004 presidential run in 2004, his financial disclosure of assets, not counting Teresa's, didn't total much more than $1 million if that. Now John is lumping them together. So I guess it is safe to say his presidential aspiration have finally ended. Kerry is even richer than Chappaquiddick Ted. JM is just a pauper.

http://www.rollcall.com/features/Guide-to-Congress_2008/guide/28506-1.html?type=printer_friendly

Bear, the reason I am so irritated at the "Feminist Critique" of NOW's endorsement is the same reason I was irritated when many Blacks endorsed Clarence Thomas to be confirmed as a Supreme Court justice. Endorsing or supporting Palin simply because she's a woman is an insult to the goals and principles of Feminism which is more than just having the correct "gender" in high office. Hell, if it's just a woman that is wanted, why not ask Phyllis Schafley to run? Or find members of Concerned Women For America. Is it more important for ANY woman to be elected or promoted regardless of her viewpoints?

It's time to "hit the hay" I have a big workload tomorrow. Goodnight to all...

"What kind of damage did you get? Wind, water or both?"
Posted by: Bear | September 22, 2008 1:59 PM

Bear,
It doesn't flood where we live, we're high and try, heavily wooded. We had a few tree's fall but they were out away from the house and vehicles. No real damage, just some clean up. But since se have no power we have no water, so there's not much we can do until it's back on. That's the frustrating part, I'll be glad when our lives get back to normal. This makes you really appreciate the fact that the little things are the important things. Thanks for asking.

By the way Bear, you're right. The lines should be buried. Things seem way out of date here, and we have more than our share of outages.

Alan Mitchell-Greenspan

--all you need to know

Paid hack for Keating

I sorry this is so long Craig, but I just loved the way he said all of this, and couldn't resist. I would have posted the whole article, if I thought I could get away with it.:)
(I'm outa here before I get in trouble)

Palin and Obama—What Really is Wisdom?

"I have been asked by many why I have such confidence in a rookie Alaskan governor, given the rigors of the campaign to follow. (Many Republican pundits apparently do not.) I think we are starting to see the answers to that question. The proverbial “they” hacked into her private email accounts. They swore that her daughter was the real mother of her Down Syndrome baby. They sent legions of reporters and lawyers to Alaska to dig up dirt. They wrote columns suggesting that she was stupid, uneducated, dishonest, a liar, and worse still. All this was the work of moralists, who, in their more extreme manifestations, tried to flood a Chicago radio station to disrupt guests, who doctored photos of McCain to subvert his portrait, who disgraced the Atlantic brand by trafficking in pregnancy rumors, and who now publish the private email of Palin."

"And? She is still smiling and apparently unmoved. Had they done this to Biden, he would have gone berserk. Wait—they didn’t do this to Biden, and he seems near berserk in his daily gaffes."

"Barack Obama, in contrast, on numerous occasions has complained how tiring, how hard, how unfair, how racist the campaign has turned out to be; Palin never. I could not imagine Obama doing his hope and change thing in the Senate while holding a one-year-old and checking on four more children at home."
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/09/palin_and_obamawhat_really_is.html

Oh, when we were at the Fort today, filled up with gas. Our Sidekick took 8.5 gallons of regular--we were pretty low.

The station had no premium, no mid-grade and sales of regular were limited to 10-gallons. Not good. Residuals from Ike.

A tie?

oh noes
life imitates art

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWodSDYgfXA

Hope life does a better job!

Good article Chloe, thanks.

Julie

It won't be long before the Liberal males will be calling Sarah Palin the "C" word. Is bashing women a new Liberal macho sport these days? I follow sports and I didn't see it listed. Of course no one would say that to her face or she cold cock them, or mistakenly shoot them thinking they were a rabid deranged moose on the loose.

Why are Liberals males such a angry group of people? Are their briefs to tight? Constipation a problem? Having male urination problems? Is overweight hampering their sex life? Ah suffering from ED? Not making enough money? Advancement at work not happening, been over looked again? Has PC caused you to lose that raise or promotion? Is the boss now courting the new guy? Does you desk now over look the fire escape right under the sign that reads, "EXIT"? Is there anyone left at work you haven't told you hold a PhD in Animal Husbandry, and that very funny joke you seem to recall in an instant, 'the reason you didn't pursue a career in Animal Husbandry was because you were straight and allergic to fur', and/or about your thesis on the mating rituals of the Monarch Butterfly?

Liberals males, they want you to think they are happy, but in reality they are a pretty miserable lot.They are stuck in limbo, and sex to them is a four letter word, "NONE".

Bear here is a story on the likable Alan Greenspan

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/32b85c72-859b-11dd-a1ac-0000779fd18c.html

If anybody is interested in the Susan Estrich inter view I was talking about earlier

http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/kcur/.jukebox?action=viewPodcast&podcastId=1654

Bear

"In my experience, the only people who ever cared about being called racists were the one who were and were afraid to own up to it."

Well Bear than please note this, you have called yourself, referred to yourself on this very blog, as the "N" word. No one else has ever used that word that I can recall, except you. You being Black somehow mistakenly believe this grants you a license to you this word. It doesn't, but if that is what you think of yourself who am I to to try to change your mind.

It has been my experience that racism lives in every community, Blacks are not exempt for such things. But you already knew that didn't you.

There is one thing I know you and I can agree one. Men who father children should support those children, they don't wham bang thank you ma'am, baby needs a new pair of shoes and then run out on them. That would not be what a real man would do. Wouldn't you agree?

The girl did it again. Just amazing.

FLASH: MSNBC's RACHEL MADDOW beats CNN's KING, 9PM ET 9/15-19/08

1,720,000 to 1,678,000...

If we are all in the same boat no problem but if I believe you to be in a better one and you are keeping me keeping me in the leaky sinking one, then you can't buy enough ammo.

Jack,

We are all in the same boat, except some actually row, others allow you to row for them. Just remember when everyone is equal, everyone is equally miserable. On the gun issue, I'm locked, stocked and loaded. LA riots will look like a misquote bite compared to what may happen if this do nothing Congress lives up to its name. Who are you going to count on the help you out if the financial markets collapse, the government? LMAO. You'll starve first.

Craig - you give an excellent chance to remind people of the importance of the supreme court. A TIE? Guess who the next president would be if W had had the chance to name even one justice. In 2000 just one justice gave us W, essentially for 8 years, and the war in Iraq and our current financial crisis most probably. Yes, I know Fry, you don't agree, but I'm not trying to make a point to you.

I'm trying to make a point to the people who don't think the idea of a packed supreme court would be such a big problem.

One justice elected W president, and I really hate the idea that she is living well and above the fray.

Jack - I loved your point re the ignorance of journalists.
they are so good at talking to the camera and making us feel as if they are talking to us, and they wouldn't do that if they didn't know what they are talking about - right? WRONG. They have gofers who run to look up big words and they google words like arbitrageur.
They are ordinary people who want to talk about themselves and how they see things.

KGC - what main street do you mean - G'ville or Santa Rosa? Which retail businesses?

Oregon Democrat - I just saw a bit of Bill on the View. You are so right about his ability to say exactly what he means. I especially liked his point that it's worthless to try to tell someone that they are are voting wrong, because everyone's situation is different. Wouldn't it be a relief if some here had even a little of his insight?

Question. When one writes, "BULLSHT", or the "N word", or "F***" is that suppose to make it more acceptable? Are our minds only suppose to see the letters and not recognize and say the words?

Equine excrement. lol

Liberals males, they want you to think they are happy, but in reality they are a pretty miserable lot" FryDaddy

Fry, I always enjoy reading your posts, but I've never known you to generalize so much. If you're a little more specific as to what your point is, it's a lot easier to see your point of view and perhaps agree with you. When you so broadly generalize it makes you start to sound mean.

OOOPS! I want to broaden my remarks re journalists.

Craig - I've come to the conclusion that I, and I think others here, don't seem to consider you a journalist. If you really want to consider yourself as such, you should certainly do so, but I have to say I didn't go hunting to find out where you were so that I could hear from a journalist.

I just googled 'where the heck is Craig Crawford' and found this place and stayed here because you know what you report on. You tell us your take on an issue and let us ask you questions and let us argue with you.
That's how you treat a television audience, too, and why I wanted to hear your take on happenings rather than Wolf's or Tweety's or the Unstable One's.

I didn't always agree with your reports on tv but you didn't say you were right - you said what seemed to you to be right and what you had found out.

I hope you can compare yourself to Wolf and Tweety and Schuster etc and see how you are different and better, and why we so often complain re the media. The Media really deserves the complaints.

Now this guy is pretty specific on what he thinks and why he thinks it.

Is Obama Another Dukakis?
"Why is Obama so vapid, hesitant, and gutless?
I ran into a rather clever Republican operative at the airport last week, who pointed out to me that this ought by rights to be a Democratic Party year across the board, from the White House to the Congress to the gubernatorial races. But there was a crucial energy leak, and it came from the very top. More people doubted Obama's qualifications for the presidency in September than had told the pollsters they had doubted these credentials in July. "So what he ought to do," smiled this man, "is spend his time closing that gap and less time attacking McCain." Obama's party hacks, increasingly white and even green about the gills, are telling him to do the opposite. I suppose this could even mean that Sarah Palin, down the road, will end up holding the door open for Hillary Clinton. Such joy!"
http://www.slate.com/id/2200587/

"I just saw a bit of Bill on the View. You are so right about his ability to say exactly what he means. I especially liked his point that it's worthless to try to tell someone that they are are voting wrong, because everyone's situation is different."

Bethy, I'm so impressed with your pointing out this snippet of what Bill said. I didn't see The View and am glad he hear he still sounds like he has so much common sense and understands what makes people tick. It's so refreshing that he gets it. He allows peoples differences and respects their reasons for having them.

give it a rest

FD said: "Who are you going to count on the help you out if the financial markets collapse, the government? LMAO. "

And to who is all these greedy rethug creeps running to save their ass. The government. wtf. LOL

BTW : got my reply from PP today for my donation yesterday in honor of S Palin.

Cecile Richards, President
Planned Parenthood Action Fund
P.S. About the McCain-Palin ticket: I believe my late mother, Ann Richards, the former governor of Texas, would have said "women voting for this ticket is just like chickens voting for Colonel Sanders." Pass it on!

forgot to add a thx to KGC for the suggestion.

bethy
I was talking about Guerneville --sadly
So far Memories that Linger, the Guerneville Florist and the Pet Store and rumor has it a couple more places are close to going under.

Rez
thanks so much for the Planned Parenthood donation in Palin's name... The idea originated with a friend from SF who is living in Turkey (fell in love with a Turk) What a great response! I forwarded it to my friend --he will be thrilled!

I heard a great call -in on the Thom Hartmann show today. The guy spoke about all the major historical gov't bailouts since Raygun (about 6?).

The bottom line he was addressing was the need to have some accountability with these financial institutions through reforms. Seems they just repeat the same scams over and over because no one but JustUs pays for their ripoffs.

And Hartmann directed his audience to R Reich's suggestions for inclusion in any Dem deal to fund a bailout.

http://robertreich.blogspot.com/2008/09/what-wall-street-should-be-required-to.html

I always liked Reich, beside he went to a great school

Chloe - they are showing bits of bill's appearance on the view on CNN and I think they'll keep showing it. It appears to have been a very successful visit for him and I think the audience will want more. Give it a shot even if it makes you leave the mute button on till they show him - HA!

chloe,

Liberals males I'll give you 3 names. John Kerry, Ted Kennedy, BHO, all big Liberals. Now you tell me how they got to where they are today? And how they obtained their wealth? Female, family, female in that order. They never ran a company, made a payroll, have zero executive skills.

I said this before you let the very wealthy politician establish a tax plan and people who never in the widest dreams who thought they were rich will be swept up in that basket.. If you are making $300k a year and have a home and 3 kids live in DC area, NYC, LA, SF and someone decides that they are going to raise the top 5% of income wages and double their tax able gains like BHO wants to do, they will get hurt.. You are not hurting the person making $2 million like Joe Biden's son, or Don Imus, Rush Limbaugh or people making $10 million a year, or $5 million or $2 million, but someone makings but the $300K gets hurt.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/the-electoral-tie-scenarios.html#comment-149115

Thanks Fry. Now that made sense

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/the-electoral-tie-scenarios.html#comment-149113

Hey Bethy, thanks for letting me know about that. When we get back to our room, I'll have time to check it out.

We've got power!
We can come home tomorrow for good.

If no one else has corrected Craig's post about DC voting -- the facts are that DC does NOT have a vote in a contingent election scenario in the House of Representatives. Only "states" are authorized to vote. DC does have 3 votes to cast in the electoral college itself due to the 23rd Amdt.

In pertinent part, the 12th Amendment provides:

...the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote...

ET...
Saw your responses earlier.. You are already in Tuesday.
We may not be far apart. I agree that those in need must have support in our society.
However of all those that run to the ice truck my bet is most could have prepared.

Also the Video Wasteland of the Free. Interesting, factual but to the balance.

Also who is running on the corp contributions this time?

As a Bean Counter, Where are the Bean Counters??

Is it correct that a key congressional oversight committee was given the heads up on lots of this stuff months ago?

What did the Congress do?

Anyone got the facts?

The Perons cleaned out the treasury of Argentina during their reign...all of that gold (historic and nazi). Has any one checked on Ft. Knox lately?

Update to the local events for both candidates, these are events put on by voters, not appearances of the candidates.

10 mile radius
3 for McCain
44 for Obama

This trend has been holding for the last three weeks.

Toast; 9:49 am ............... Eloquent !!!!!! - I have only one thing to add. The republicans have been floating the market for probably close to 5 years, and any thinking individual knows that if the dems win the election, they will pull their money and off to the Cayman's they will go. And what will BO do then. Pathetic pelosi and company have had almost 2 years to take the sting out of this mess, but maybe BO needs the stall, at least until the end of the month........................................

Fry; 10:53 am ..................... not all democrats are hypocrits Fry, just this New, Improved version of the party..........................................................................

Bear; 1:47 pm .................... "oil jumps", Bear I really believe the jump in oil is due to the speculators jumping out of a fading market and back on to oil and gold...............................................................................

Chloe; 6:42 pm ........................"Bill Clinton respects", Respect is something that doesn't compute with these NEW dems................................................................

Rita

McCain voters dont go to rallies. They are generally older people.

New Dems??

WTF is that? I'm 56 years old and been voting Democratic for 38 of em. I guess I must be one if I'm supporting Obama. Who knew?

New Democrats - Generation Obama
"Say Goodbye to the old politic. We are the New Democrats.""
http://democrats.org/page/group/GenerationObama

It's a fact that Obama leads among folks who are likely to vote, nationwide, but it's distressing to see McCain leading here in Ohio. Obama needs the one-two punch of Penna and Ohio to edge out McCain.
Progressive and Left radio stations are still calling an Obama landslide, but it's way to close for that. The fact the there are millions more Democratic voters registered makes no difference in this crazy election process.

Actually- I have been to many rallies, there are people of all ages at the events. In the last year I have seen HRC twice, WJC once, Obama once, Biden once and McCain once....

Handley interesting generalization...did you mean people like over 70? Like McCain....or older than that?

Fellow Imus Fan attends McCain/Palin Rallly in Florida and Blogs about it photos added. Pretty cool.

http://bellalu0.wordpress.com/2008/09/22/palin-power-under-hot-florida-sun/

Craig when are you going to be on Imus in the Morning again?

Obama's New Coalition

Obama has managed to create, for the first time, a coalition of liberal elites and African-American voters. As an aside here, as someone that has done political work in urban black neighborhoods and has been active in reforming the machine-driven politics of Philadelphia, this coalition is a dream come true.

But what does it mean that Obama has put together this coalition? And, here I must add, Obama is also attracting young people in droves and pulling in independents and some former Republicans. That's important because he needs an expanded base for the general election. Yet, Obama is doing all this without relying on 'lunchbucket' Democrats. And lunchbucket Democrats have been decisive in every Democratic primary since McGovern and every general election since FDR built his majority coalition

http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2008/4/18/105826/285

Dex,
We are going to win Ohio....you just wait....I do wish that Obama would visit here again. Ohio has 7.4 % unemployment highest in 16 years.

I am seeing positive involvement...but I am in an area of Ohio Obama expects to win.

I wish I had a photo of two ladies I saw today......they were heading to an Obama phone banking event....Over 50, white, can't say their income, but certainly didn't look like what people are saying about Obama supporters.

The Obama voter stereo-type doesn't exist.....it is an attempt by others to diminish and belittle the group as a whole.....

How Much Gold Is In Fort Knox?

http://www.articlecity.com/articles/business_and_finance/article_7015.shtml

Rita,

You say you support Hillary...what do you mean by that? Support her in what?

Chloe; 6:42 pm ........................"Bill Clinton respects", Respect is something that doesn't compute with these NEW dems..............................."Posted by: politicallypissed 9:06 PM

You're right Rita. Ain't gonna happen.

"Listened to Joy Behar on Larry King tonight, whining because Bill wasn't enthusiastic enough. Just in case you myopics haven't noticed , he's an ex-president, the only successful dem in 50 years"

It' like they are possessed once they're under his spell, isn't it. Guess we'll have to get used to it.

nite

The Bill Clinton I saw on the clip from The View , is absolutely nothing like the one I saw in person campaigning for his wife. He appeared to be extremely tired.

Oh Rita.
I forgot to ask you.
Do you have a knothead list?
It's important to check it occasionally.

Excuse me, but, no one has to get used to anything. Just get busy doing something more worthwhile other than bitching and moaning every waking hour of the day....There are so many wonderful organizations that could used your support.....and your intelligence.....Make a difference and make it a positive difference.

or not.

Thank goodness that everyone who faces disappointment doesn't just crater in to a huge negative force, because the world really doesn't need any more of that.

Why are Sarah's children with her ? School is in session. Are they home-schooled?

Side note: no one here ever says anything positive about McCain...I have to believe that someone out there supports him?

There is an eerie silence...when it comes to John McCain

Obama, Hillary, Palin, top names covered here.

CNN re: Hensley 's dog, do dogs pay taxes?

Rita
Love reading you....Your opinions are respected from some here.............

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/the-electoral-tie-scenarios.html#comment-149164

Right you are Rita.
I was just afraid you might let it get to you.

Tomorrow.

tonyb39; 11:06 ........................... Thank you Tony, that was kind, but to clarify, I wasn't looking for respect for me, but for a very good ex-president. They earned it, I didn't, they did all the heavy lifting, I just had to vote.....

Rita

" I told you so" one of the most negative and spiteful phrases ever.

Rita

I concur with tony and Chloe, your opinions are respected by some on the blog. You are appreciated for your willingness to submit your own opinion.

Julie

Yes Rita
President Clinton is the Best!! I listened to him today and miss him so much as President,glad Obama finally found the time to meet with him,but did he listen and learn?

I'd be delighted to hear what exactly you mean by an "Uncle Tom black", ET.

KGC --

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/the-electoral-tie-scenarios.html#comment-148958

WiFi at your apple stand -- ROFLMAO! I love it! Thank you for the hilarious image. You're giving me ideas -- how about some hard cider to go with those apples?

Can we stop talking about what a terrible candidate Obama is because is does not match up to the proverbial "generic Democrat"....

The "generic Democrat" always does better than the actual candidate. The same thing happened to with Kerry. Bush lost to the generic Democrat 48-43 - and we all know what happened in 2004.

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/CBSNews_polls/pol_back.pdf

And in 2004 - Bush was unpopular - and he was the one who was running.

(And of course HRC looks strong right now since the Republican attack machine has been hitting Obama non-stop for months while at the same time placing Clinton on a pedestal. Clinton supporters don't need a long memory to figure out the Republicans are being disingenuous in an attempt to manipulate Clinton's supporters.)

The "generic Democrat" allows each voter to imagine their own individual Demcratic candidate that shares their views, etc.

And of course the "generic Democrat" is not subject to the Republican attack machine.

The point is - Democrats need to focus on how important this election is. Recognize that the Republican policies Bush implemented were the cause of the last 8 years more so than Bush himself. And do everything they can to make sure they do not repeat the losses of 2000 and 2004.

Obama may not be your ideal candidate. But whether you are a Hillary supporter, a card-carrying Democrat, or an Independent or Republican that thinks that this Country needs to do something different from the last 8 years - Senator Barack Obama is the choice on Nov. 4.

" But everything Sarah Palin believes in and practices is antithetical to Feminism which for me is part of one story -- connected to saving the earth, ending racism, empowering women, giving young girls options, opening our minds, deepening tolerance, and ending violence and war."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eve-ensler/drill-drill-drill_b_124829.html

ub: I am in McCain country, one of most lopsided repugg counties in the union, but it's heartening, anyway, as more and more of those OBAMA BIDEN yard signs spring up...I counted a dozen new ones on my dusk bike ride last evening.
When the dust clears, repuggs always win 3-1 in this rural county. That's why we need to get the vote out in Cuyahoga County.

People say Obama needs to hit McCain harder, or pay more respect the Clinton years, or spend more time here, or do this or do that.

You know what Democrats - all he needs is to get the 90% support of his party that McCain enjoys and Obama will win this thing in a landslide.

The Republicans consistently win Presidential elections because they are (1) more loyal and (2) better organized.

Obama has organizational skills unmatched by any Democratic candidate we have seen. So the rest is on you - Democrats.

It's probably my deeply ingrained resistence to being pushed, but this rush to shell out something shy of a trilling dollars of taxpayer money just sets off all sorts of alarm bells. Apparently I'm not alone, though being in the company of Newt Gingrich is unsettling to say the least.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=94900671&ft=1&f=1001

The Keating 5: Let's NOT Forget.

"Among McCain's earliest benefactors in Arizona was Lincoln Savings and Loan chief Charles Keating Jr., who filled McCain's campaign coffers with more than $100,000 and hosted the McCains multiple times at his vacation home in the Bahamas.

Keating expected his largesse to be rewarded, and when federal regulators began looking into Lincoln's questionable lending practices and investments in the late 1980s, he turned to five senators whose coffers he had lined ...

....Lincoln's collapse, the biggest of many savings and loan failures, cost taxpayers $2.6 billion. Keating spent four years in jail, before his sentence was overturned on a technicality, and the Keating 5, as the senators came to be known, lived under an ethical cloud for years."

Read more at:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2008157607_mckeating04.html

This MORE than balances out the little Tony Rezko thing.

tt

"This MORE than balances out the little Tony Rezko thing."

That's encouraging

Lets see, one robbed a bank and the other robbed poor people.

Jack

How much did Rezko cost taxpayers Jack?

Being linked with a scandal that cost taxpayers $2.6 billion doesn't really help McCain with the current status of the Economy....

Jamie, the worst of it is, Paulson wants NO OVER SIGHT!!

TT

Exactly, warren.

tt

Warren

How many people went homeless in Chicago because of Rezko?

Jack

Oh that's right It is the new democratic party. Pardon me for mentioning something so ugly.

Jack

TipToe

I figure that if it took about five years to get in this state, it doesn't have to be suddenly turned around in 48 hours. There is absolutely no reason some sort of temp stop gap measure can't be done to stabilize the market and then totally analzye the situation and let a completely new administration handle after January.

I find out a long time ago, that the sky probably isn't falling no matter how many chickens you see running around squawking.

So true, Jamie!

tt

Market instability is due to uncertainty, Jamie.

Uncertainty is caused by fear.

A simple statement of resolve is usually enough to stabilize a situation.... This will be handled!!! You don't have to be pushed to action.

i.e. Roosevelt's "We have nothing to fear but fear itself". It didn't stop the depression, but it did say someone is in charge and will attemd to the problem.

Right now too much action could bring on an unnecessary downturn. This package needs to be negotiated and a few hearings about how we got here wouldn't hurt.

For God's sake they have hearings about protecting salmon fishing, but they can't take time to have a hearing about expending a big chunk of the GDP and saddling a humongous debt on the next generation?

Elizabeth Edwards does a phone interview :

http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2008809180362

Rita,

I 'm revising and extending my remarks. lol

I became a NEW Democrat sometime in the early 60's.
Thank God we have a new batch this cycle because both of us and everyone here aren't getting any younger.

If there's one thing that's most interesting to me about the this year elections, it's all the generational conflicts coming to the forefront., particularly among Blacks, Women, and Democrats.

btw, .IMO if there's one person (Democrat) who understands Obama more than anyone else, it's Bill Clinton.

Follow the money.

You know what Democrats - all he needs is to get the 90% support of his party that McCain enjoys and Obama will win this thing in a landslide.
Obama has organizational skills unmatched by any Democratic candidate we have seen. So the rest is on you - Democrats.

Posted by: warren | September 23, 2008 12:03 AM

Not going to happen Warren. The primaries have left too many bruised feelings. Obama knows that. I will not vote repug but neither BO.
He needs to shift to plan B. Maybe he has allready.

The time for party unity is over Warren. Those days are gone. Please wake up you guys. It is not coming back. even if HRC or Bill comes, it will not happen.... It will happen to the repugs also after this election. It nearly erupted with Mitt Romney, but they adjusted just in time...Just because they knew that the dogfight between BO and HRC was going to continue then.

More and more it is about a person, someone who represents ME! Not a party anymore..

In 50 years parties will have eroded for 80%, everyone will become independent because candidates will have individual opinions, that are not necessarily in line with party dogma´s.....

Hope BO had a plan B... I do think so however. And stop focussing on the Hillary women. Even Hillary has moved on......

UB - I have to partially disagree with you about the
"I told you so" statement. I would never use it with someone I disagreed with angrily - that would just fuel their anger. I use it with family and friends over minor disagreements and always warn them I will say it, because I see it as a learning situation - hopefully, they will remember that I am often right......and I also tell them to be sure to say it to me when I'm wrong. It helps me remember they are often right, too. I don't feel insulted it all when they say it to me. Maybe we just don't smirk - HA!

Jason - I absolutely agree with you about the parties and their life-expectancy. I registered independent years ago because there were too many things I didn't care for in both parties, and this last campaign showed millions of others just how much their party, either one, was willing to do for them.

Parties hand out rx's for illnesses before making good diagnoses - that's dangerous. "This is who we want and we expect you to be happy with it and vote accordingly. Believe us, we know what we're talking about."

This last campaign was not about which candidate the people wanted; it was a power struggle between people who wanted to BE the parties, the Ted Kennnedys and Deans and Pelosi's and whatever hidden comparable big shots in the repubs.

If anybody really wants to perpetuate either of these parties, he or she will have to do some humbling exercises, and be prepared to listen.

Bethy,

A very nice and true addition to my post.

I support it whole heartedly (extra high marks for the 3rd paragraph)

.....This last campaign was not about which candidate the people wanted; it was a power struggle between people who wanted to BE the parties, the Ted Kennnedys and Deans and Pelosi's and whatever hidden comparable big shots in the repubs.......

Addition: With in the end the republicans failing in their bid (Romney cum suis) and democrats winning (BO cum suis).

would that be jason the economist'''
looks like that 1.2 trillion price tag est. for the
banking bailout was just about right

would that be jason the economist'''
looks like that 1.2 trillion price tag est. for the
banking bailout was just about right

Posted by: mqw | September 23, 2008 3:28 AM

Help me mqw.... I don´t get your post.....

maybe that was another jason
said he was a economist.
about 2 months ago

Nope, I think that is me.

Anyway, If you refer to the bailout, I am angered by it.
It will lead me too far to make my point. But it is too sad that this bailout occurred..... let me state in like that.

thought that was you since it was about this time of morning''must be several time zones away to up
this early or late' the discussion was about
mad money kramers 'estimate on the cost
of the banking fiasco' seems he was just about
right'' that was about 2months ago
guess i have to good a memory

girl in the war' by josh ritter'' good song

jason, the last time i read you had three pages to go. how many now? how do you feel so close to this journey's end? exhausted, elated, trepidatious?

LOL
Still three to go Patd.... Havn´t doen anything these past two days. Only focussing on work related issues (credit crunch and its influence on Europe)
But it feels good. It feels like I am finally freed on the one hand. On the other hand, I am wondering what to do next.... I like the studies, but I am too old now to do something new....LOL

Thnx for asking Pat