Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Woo whoo -- or something like that! First!

venue, video, vicus...............

Add to this massive economic crisis, Lehman Brothers bankruptcy, which is sure to bring down even more financial giants, and the stage is set for the perfect storm. Let's hope it's not a category five!

Craig A++

Obama = A more socialistic, Higher Tax, More of the same Government control

McCain = Capitalistic, Free Market , Less Government, lasting natural solution.

The choice is clear

? Does Alan Greenspan have some culpability in the demise of the current credit markets? What was his role in the easy credit game that we are now paying a very high price?

McCain = Bush

The maverick has no clothes

Morning Strug,
McCain brings the true change, just the facts in this one post today alone validate McCain = McChange.
Obama is more of the same government.

The biggest Change Obama brings is Chicago Old Style vs Washington Old Style

McCain is No Bush

You're both right.

I'm with you fellers. (But I'm righter.)

LOL.... I would think that the Ping is more to the right thus righterest

Laugh out loud Sturge.
We're ALL right.
(especially me) :)

Palin Stokes Class War Among Women
"The traditional women’s groups and Democratic-aligned women are understandably worried that if she is elected, the face of American feminism will be a gun-toting, sexual abstinence-teaching, abortion-opposing Wal-Mart shopper.

She doesn’t eat sushi like they do, but she does catch salmon.

This election will go a long way toward settling the question of whether groups that purport to speak for American women really do, or merely represent a narrow band of those who tend to be politically active, upper-middle-class and left-leaning."
http://blogs.wsj.com/politicalperceptions/2008/09/14/palin-stokes-class-war-among-women/?mod=homeblogmod_politicalperceptions

I guess correct would have been a better word. :)

END THE FED

and I am left to wonder.........

"This election ... settling the question ... that purport to speak for American women ... do, or merely represent a narrow band of ... active, upper-middle-class and left-leaning."

-Good, because I was wondering.

Noce one Craig.

But unfortunately I cannot say who is right or who is wrong or which plan I am warming to more. BO´s plan isn´t there on the table yet. It is a study which needs a backbone still....

Hey Choloe, good to see you're alive and well and with 'net access. I've heard some got lucky down there, and some didn't. Hope you and your neighbors end up OK.

END THE FED

Posted by: champ | September 15, 2008 6:54 AM

Sorry. Out of the question Sir.....
the only stable and justified insitute we have in this country is the FED.....

How Will Black Americans React If Obama Loses?
LOSING ALTITUDE?
The Big 'What If'
"Never before have my emotions been so exercised by a political campaign. For one thing, never before has a candidate so fully challenged the many inhibitions that have prevented people of all races, including African Americans, from seriously envisioning presidential power in the hands of someone other than a white American. With intelligence, verve and elegance, Obama has opened the public mind to the idea of a black president and made that idea broadly attractive. "

"Even if Barack Obama loses in November, he will have bequeathed to all America something that should bring comfort and pride to even the most disappointed of his followers. He has reached the edge of the pinnacle. And shown that we can stand atop it. "
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/12/AR2008091202414.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

This financial crisis is a good example of why placing our confidence in those who have the best formal education (I'm sure Wall Street is full of Harvard and Wharton graduates) isn't necessarily wise without considering the person's overall character. Where are the leaders who posess honesty, good judgment, integrity, compassion, humility? I guess they have the good sense to stay away from Wall Street and politics.Too bad.

I'm not sure that pinnacles have edges......

Thanks Champ
The hurricane wasn't bad up where we are.
But losing power is horrendous (you don't want to be anywhere near Houston without Air). We have a generator but now can't get gas for it. Our phone worked til yesterday, but now that's out too. And our internet is through our phone line (DSL). So last night we stayed in a local hotel - but don't know when things will get back to normal. There was a point it seemed more like a war zone to a spoiled person like me.

Fed is unconstitutional, opaque, ineffective, and undermines our currency and economy. Nothing 'free market' about it. END THE FED.

"Where are the leaders who posess honesty, good judgment, integrity, compassion, humility?I",

ubns,
Were there ever any of those?

Fed is unconstitutional, opaque, ineffective, and undermines our currency and economy. Nothing 'free market' about it. END THE FED.

Posted by: champ | September 15, 2008 7:09 AM

Lucky for us, and sad for U...NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!

Chloe,

ref. your 7:02 AM post.

Last week I posted an article from a Philadelphia paper written by a Black female reporter that suggested that if BHO didn't win this election there would be massive race riots.

That type of thinking would be very unwise for the Black community. If you ever attend a gun show, what you'll see is is Whites buying firearms in large numbers, buying ammo clips that hold more than the manufacturer recommendations, and buying these semi automatic assault rifles. What you do not see at these gun shows are Blacks. Whites are legally, silently arming themselves. That is just a fact of life.

How Will Black Americans React If Obama Loses?

Posted by: chloe | September 15, 2008 7:02 AM

Hmmm

On one hand I will be disappointed because we have come so far and missed it during the GE cycle.
On the other hand; I have no faith in the BO presidency so..maybe it will be a blessing if he is not elected...

In any which way, I will not feel blessed. With or without BO

screw it......Im going to nova scotia and build furniture for my grandchildren.

this is not even a rat race anymore......it's just a rat circle jerk.

I don't know about the rest of the country Fry, but there's a LOT of law and order in Texas. People like to make fun of the state (I did too when we lived in California) but they've really got it together here. So I can't imagine that happening.

Not only that, there doesn't seem to be a lot of racial tension here. I know a lot of people have guns here, but I really don't think crime is all that high for such a highly populated place. I don't expect any kind of riot here if that should happen. I don't know about other states. I lived in Southern California during some riots, but was always out of harms way.

Elephant in the room.

"In any which way, I will not feel blessed. With or without BO"

I hear ya Jason. If I've figured out anything this year, it's that it doesn't make much difference what I think.

back from AM Workout..... of sorts

Chloe - A key before the Hurricane is to cool the house down as cold as possible - note from humid post charlie florida

Sturg - Which is the better of the chicken wings? The left or right?

Fry - Ouch ,,, a little negative on the direction - do not even want to touch that one

When lender advertise that they will finance 125% or higher the value of your home, when appraiser over appraise your home by 50%, when finance companies don't inspect the documents, when consumers apply for homes they know they can never afford, when government establish a no-doc procedure. What would a reasonable person, with reasonable intelligence & education, expect the outcome to be? Why is everyone so surprised of this outcome? Alan Greenspan, was at the helm of the FED when this all started, he was at the helm of the FED when the dot com bubble burst.

"screw it......Im going to nova scotia and build furniture for my grandchildren."

Ha Sturgeon - Things aren't that bad. Even in hurricane ravaged Texas. :)

Nail on the Head award to UBS

Posted 7:02
This financial crisis is a good example of why placing our confidence in those who have the best formal education (I'm sure Wall Street is full of Harvard and Wharton graduates) isn't necessarily wise without considering the person's overall character. Where are the leaders who posess honesty, good judgment, integrity, compassion, humility? I guess they have the good sense to stay away from Wall Street and politics.Too bad.

Posted by: FryDaddy Author Profile Page | September 15, 2008 7:33 AM

The Bush Doctrine

"A key before the Hurricane is to cool the house down as cold as possible - note from humid post charlie florida"

Next time I'll know.
We've had so many false warnings in the past, I didn't prepare.

Fry - Ouch ,,, a little negative on the direction - do not even want to touch that one

2 things. I wasn't the reporter who wrote the newspaper article, and 2 the truth doesn't always come nicely packaged with pretty ribbons. If you think I am over stating things, attend a gun show, and you tell me what you see.

this has nothing to do with economics, I suppose, but I feel that chicken wings are HIGHLY over-rated......as if somebody somewhere at some time was stuck with a load of chicken wings and had to figger: "What the hell am I going to do with all these damn tiny little drumsticks? I know.....I'll jazz 'em up and make people think they're really cool....."

And it caught on.

“You have to choose [as a voter] between trusting to the natural stability of gold and the natural stability of the honesty and intelligence of the members of the Government. And, with due respect for these gentlemen, I advise you, as long as the Capitalist system lasts, to vote for gold.”

-George Bernard Shaw

chloe,

Have a few questions for you.

How far do you live from Huston?
What sort of damage has your area suffered?
How would you rate the response of city, county, state, federal government?
What do you think that could have been done but wasn't?

Fry,
There's nothing wrong with discussing all angles. You're right, you're only talking about what you've read. This 'politically correct' thing is getting way out of control.
It's silly to think people don't have the best of intentions when discussing all possibilities about how people feel. and what may happen. Or at least what some fear may happen.

Wm J. Bryan, from the "cross of gold" speech

He says that we are opposing the national bank currency. It is true. If you will read what Thomas Benton said, you will find that he said that in searching history he could find but one parallel to Andrew Jackson. That was Cicero, who destroyed the conspiracies of Cataline and saved Rome. He did for Rome what Jackson did when he destroyed the bank conspiracy and saved America.

chloe,

Sorry that was suppose to be Houston, as in Houston, Texas.

I have friends who live in Kathy. Think that is just outside Houston.

chloe--re: your 7:10 post

There have probably been some elected officials who went to Washington with good intention and good character intact--and then something goes awry. I guess it's a combination of things. And if you do possess many virtues (think Paul Wellstone) but you aren't colorful enough to attract a lot of media attention, your influence is limited.

This has nothing to do with anything discussed so far today, but one you may find interesting non-the-less.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_car_bombings

No pictures, just dates, places and numbers.

More WJB......famous losing person

Mr. Carlisle said in 1878 that this was a struggle between the idle holders of idle capital and the struggling masses who produce the wealth and pay the taxes of the country; and my friends, it is simply a question that we shall decide upon which side shall the Democratic Party fight. Upon the side of the idle holders of idle capital, or upon the side of the struggling masses? That is the question that the party must answer first; and then it must be answered by each individual hereafter. The sympathies of the Democratic Party, as described by the platform, are on the side of the struggling masses, who have ever been the foundation of the Democratic Party.

There are two ideas of government. There are those who believe that if you just legislate to make the well-to-do prosperous, that their prosperity will leak through on those below. The Democratic idea has been that if you legislate to make the masses prosperous their prosperity will find its way up and through every class that rests upon it

an explanation of cause is not a justification by reason.

--CS Lewis

We're about an hour nw of Houston. Our property is more forest than anything. No large tree down, just a mess. We never get flooded, so waters no problem.

All that stuff you hear on tv about government response isn't true from my point of view. I hear it, but I haven't seen it. But Texas really takes care of it's own. Very community organized and aware.

I can't say that more should have been done but wasn't though. I'm not someone who expects help from the government. I figure everyone's doing what they can. I don't try to understand everything that's going on because I know smarter people than me are taking care of things.

We're not in the middle of the worst that happened, so we feel lucky. I'm sure you'd hear different stories from those that are thought.

Thanks for asking Fry.

Fry......looks like we might have to ban cars........and trucks, too, I reckon..............

“We are in danger of being overwhelmed with irredeemable paper, mere paper, representing not gold nor silver; no sir, representing nothing but broken promises, bad faith, bankrupt corporations, cheated creditors and a ruined people.”

-Daniel Webster

I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.
Thomas Jefferson (1743 - 1826), Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802)

" There have probably been some elected officials who went to Washington with good intention and good character intact--and then something goes awry."

I'm sure you're right ubns.

I don't think there's a lot of free thinking allowed once you get there though.

That's one of the things that bother me about 'parties'. You are expected to go along with them whether you agree or not, or you're not a good 'party member'. Not enough room for disagreement or new ideas.

Sturg, So Breast or Thighs? Extreme is gizzards....
Off to the evil capitalistic world that one segment is going to pay a high price!
Free Market will correct
I would call for criminal charges for those that knowing exploded or allowed the failures - including senior executives - that most likely by law signed good pracitice every year. They must pay the price - No Old Boy Protection

sturgeone,

"Im going to nova scotia and build furniture for my grandchildren."

Well if you do go, don't do what I did on my only trip to Nova Scotia. As you know the sun sets later on in the day, actually at night during the summer months, and Nova Soctia has/had these beer halls, and their beer also has a higher % of alcohol than American beers. My mistake was thinking I would stay in one of these beer halls until the sun went down, when it went down, I went out. lol My only excuse was I was in the Navy, very much younger than I am today, and those friendly Canadians kept buying us more beer.

it makes much more sense to make the money start at the bottom and work its way up, rather than the opposite.......because we all know the rich have myriad ways of making sure that they wind up with all the money and maybe if the poor just were allowed to USE it for a little bit, things could be nicer all around.....course the rich might have to actually work harder at getting it all back, but what the hell...........

"The Democratic idea has been that if you legislate to make the masses prosperous their prosperity will find its way up and through every class that rests upon it"

Sturge,
Don't you think the truth is some where 'between' the two parties though? Somewhere right in the middle?

From The Economic Populist blog:

Mega Merger on Wall Street just announced!!!

The new entity, which Wall Street sources said was to be called CitiLehmanUnitedBearStearnsJPMorganGoldmanSachsAIGMerrillWaMu - FannieFreddieUnionCountrywideKravitz, will trade on the Exchanges under the shortened acronym, CLUSTERF*CK.
Analysts said the new mega-investment bank would have a net asset value, after writedowns, of $2.48.

Thanks EVERYONE.
Breakfast.

I hope, if nothing else, that the current crisis drives a stake through the heartless myth of deregulation being good for America.

Every, I repeat, _every_ regulation in _every_ walk of life is the result of past transgressions by people seeking to put their personal good ahead of others--that they are more important, more deserving than the hoi polloi.

It's time to reestablish the regulations that were thrown away in the bliss of erecting our financial house of cards on its foundation of sand.

For the naysayers, I have one thing to say. Up yours. You've had your chance. Now, get out of the way.

For the legislators. Be wise in reregulating. Where there's uncertainty, enact 'sunset' provisions.

For the likes of us. Be thoughtfully involved in this process all the while understanding that cash in our mattresses is a lousy long term investment. We have to have financial markets as a store of our wealth.

Fry......."skoal" (did some service time in newfoundland......)
As I have absolutely no "social life" I tend to do most of my imbibing safely esconced en casa.......only beer halls i see is if they are walking distance or they pay me to bang on the pye-anny.......but I take your meaning.......dont wait for sundown......lol

mornin' all.

I imagine some of you coaught the SNL biton Sarah and Hillary - I almost pissed myself. Talk about nailing a character!!

sturg, let me knnow how the weather is up there - I've always thought about taking the Bluenose and never coming back.

I was listening to the news last week ref. Lehman Brothers. The financial experts(?) on the show were suggesting that the federal gov't should no bail Lehman Brothers. Their take was on the scale of things, Lehman Brothers was that big, and more importantly at what level will the gov't stop bailing out companies that run their business haphazardly and without any sign of accountability. When are companies going to take responsibility for their own actions, and not keep falling back on the gov't to keep bailing them out?

the world little cares what storms you encountered along the way-----but did you bring in the cargo?

--I forget who

Pogo.......it's cold, and then it's not so cold for a little bit.....and then it's cold again.......nice weather for furniture making..........it's the opposite of floriida.....which is Hot, and then not so hot for a little bit.....and then it's Hot again......

I'm partial to shaker and duncan phyfe......except for the upholstery part......

it makes much more sense to make the money start at the bottom and work its way up, rather than the opposite

However if you look at it from the top down, and of course taking into consideration of the size and type of the company, but I would guess that is exactly what you have. The total sum of all the workers would far out number the salaries of the top executives, whose knowledge and expertise it is to keep the company heading in the right direction. Sure you can point to excess, but I would say you can find more companies where the top executives are inline with the company's bottom line. A captain of a ship is responsible for the ship, and to get that ship to point x on time. But the captain doesn't actually steer the ship that duty is left to a lowly seaman.

and old F L Wright got off a piece or two:

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0fo46fW35jeFh/340x.jpg

sock, RFLMFAO

"sturg, let me knnow how the weather is up there - I've always thought about taking the Bluenose and never coming back."

I'm curious, too. I've always had the impression that it would be heavily influenced by the Gulf Stream.

Back during a break in service in '71, we took a look at northern Ontario. Stinky absolutely refused to put up with their winters. I loved the wilderness that existed there when I was a youngster. Suppose it's still there if one was to go far enough north.

I may be wrong, but my sense is Canadian immigration authorities want people who will be immediately and truly productive. I bet Sturg fits that model.

And Pogo, with a few intensive courses, you would, too. Do lawyers wear wigs in Canadian courts?

"There are those who believe that if you just legislate to make the well-to-do prosperous, that their prosperity will leak through on those below. The Democratic idea has been that if you legislate to make the masses prosperous their prosperity will find its way up and through every class that rests upon it"

sturge, does that explains why the balloons at repcons fall and balloons at demcons rise.

sorry, the above started out as a statement and ended as a question and got mixed-up in the process... too fast on the submit trigger.

wonder if all the $$ crisis talk by this am's media will start a run? and where's the best place to bury savings if anything's left to bury?

sturg, sounds like the Maine coast - wait, they're close, right?

Now, I'm not a mortgage industry insider, and really don't know all that much about the industry, but i do know this much - the underwriting guidelines drive the loans, and at least until recently, the foreclosure stuff was not in the fannie/freddy world. It's a bad time out there - when prices are falling and appraisers are using comps that are 3-6 months old (the industry standard), the properties are going to be over-appraised even without the inflationary tendency of some appraisers. No bank or mortgage firm that offers to finance more than 95% of the appraised value of a home or qualifies a borrower for a loan that requires them to pay more than 30% of their income in mortgage payments deserves anything more than it gets when the homeowner goes into default. Any bailout should be some sort of assistance to the borrower, and not to the lender if the purpose of the bailout is to aid homeowners by reducing the number of defaults instead of aiding financiers.

balloons and economics: in 91 i took me little daughter to a G.Dead concert......parked in lot Double Z, miles from the stadium......sun hot field full of automobiles.......Kid from Philly pulls in next to me in a new Continental......cracks the trunk to reveal 2 large cylinder tanks of NO2.......proceeds to fill balloons with the gas and sell them to long lines at $5 per balloon......all day saturday and most of the day sunday........

Who was the first to sell us the "American Dream" fallacy anyway? The path to happiness is to be indebted to the banking industry. Are people who rent less happy than those who own their homes or have mortgages?

"The third problem is the fact that the rules are too complex. People get discouraged by the fine print on the contracts. They take a look and say, well, I'm not so sure I want to sign this. There's too many words. (Laughter.) There's too many pitfalls. So one of the things that the Secretary is going to do is he's going to simplify the closing documents and all the documents that have to deal with homeownership.

It is essential that we make it easier for people to buy a home, not harder. And in order to do so, we've got to educate folks. Some of us take homeownership for granted, but there are people -- obviously, the home purchase is a significant, significant decision by our fellow Americans. We've got people who have newly arrived to our country, don't know the customs. We've got people in certain neighborhoods that just aren't really sure what it means to buy a home. And it seems like to us that it makes sense to have a outreach program, an education program that explains the whys and wherefores of buying a house, to make it easier for people to not only understand the legal implications and ramifications, but to make it easier to understand how to get a good loan."
http://www.hud.gov/news/speeches/presremarks.cfm

For Shrub homeownership was just another unfunded mandate in the war against terrorism.

The question should be How Will Americans react if there is another Great Depression -- no jobs, oil at $6.00 an hour, sky-high food prices, more losses of homes, massive unemployment and no health benefits.

When will Americans wake up from the illusion of the Wizards? Republicans are terrible on Economics and they are terrible on National Security and they have been terrible stewards of the Earth. They have Led us into a Fake & Phony war and have yet to fully implement the recommendations of the 911 Commission to keep this country safe and secure. That is not being strong on National Security! Ground Zero is still a Dark Hole and open Wound and a symbol of their failed polcies! That is not change we can believe in and Enough is ENOUGH! Let's expose the myth, deception and lies of the Wizards -- GOP (Grand Opposition Party)! Let's get off the Yellow Brick Road of lies and deception and realize that the power lies within the people to so produce a working government for the people not a government hiding behind a Curtin of corporate greed and special interest groups! They have failed the American people and they have failed themselves. There is no lasting prosperity for theives and liars and the wrong one does will eventually come back to be reckoned with. This is their recokening. Even Alan Greenspan has said Americans cannot afford the $3.3 trillion dollar tax cuts proposed by Senator McCain!

Now the Grand Wizard, McCain, who is 72 years old has allegedly put his Country First and nominated for V.P. someone totally lacking in national and foreign policy experience, who would be a heart beat away. Woodward in his recent book "The War Within" states that the two sleeping giants when someone takes the oval office come January 2009 will be Iraq and Afghanistan, something Woodward says Bush was disconnected from. There will also be another Giant to face -- that of the economy. Brokaw said to Sen. Shumer on Meet the Press Sunday past -- I thought when one picks a V.P. pick that they pick the most qualified candidate, referring to Obama not picking Clinton and chosing Biden instead. This goes both ways and McCain did not pick the most qualified person. A president will have the Weight of the World on his or her shoulders. Unfortunately for this Country McCain has made a very bad judgment call. May be he did not use his good judgment in this pick but something less honorable. Barack and Biden are ready to lead and to take up that weight. I do not think McCain and Palin are ready for such a daunting task. We need true leadership and not a false and deceptive wizard giving lip service to lies and deceipt instead of truth and light.

flatus, don't know whether the Canadian courts follow the Queen's court practice of wearing wigs, but it might be refereshing to to have something to cover my bald pate once again.

For more than a century, our educational system has seen to it that 95.5% of the population grow up t be docile workers and consumers, paranoid taxpayers, and eager warriors in the Bank's neve-ending struggle with atheistic communism. The fact that the American government gives back to the citizen-consumer very little of the enormous revenues it extorts from him is due to the high cost of what the Bank---which does have a sense of fun---calls "freedom"..Although most industrial Western (as well as Eastern) European countries have national health services, the American taxpayer is not allowed this amenity because it would be socialism, which is right next door to godless communism and free love, followed by suicide in the long white Swedish night. A major part of our country's revenue must always go to the Pentagon, which then passes the money on to those client states, industries and members of Congress with which the Bank does business. War is profitable for the Bank.......Health is not.

---gore vidal

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/the-american-dream-election.html#comment-145145

sturg, that makes me laugh.

Well what we see is the conservatives see an opportunity breakup another New Deal idea.

Forget that it is the most successful idea to come out of the New deal.
forget that the PROBLEM IS THE PRIVATE SECTOR. It was in the private sector where all the problems started. Where the un accountability and corruption was from the top to the bottom. IMO nobody can be serious about the mortgage crises untill they examine the systemic fraud.

Neither campaign is willing to touch that one.

Jack

jack, my man, you are absolutely right about that IMHO.

Clinton Campaigns for Obama in Ohio

"While supporters here were mixed about whether Clinton should directly assail Palin's views on issues that impact women, they were universally adamant that no Clinton supporter would ever support Palin."

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/14/clinton_campaigns_for_obama.html

We cling to the two party system in the same way that Imperial Romeclung to the republican notion of two consuls as figure-heads to mark off, if nothing else, the years they held office conjointly. They reigned ceremonially, but were not makers of the political weather. Our two official parties have, at times, actually dedicated themselves to various issues usually brought to their attention by a new president with a powerful popular mandate; hence, Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal, which gave, if nothing else, hope to a nation sunk in economic depression. Later, as he himself folksily put it, "Dr New Deal has now been replaced with Dr. Win the War." Dr. Win the War, whether he calls himself democrat or republican, is still providing, in theory, employment and all sorts of other good things for a people who did not emerge from Depression until 1940 when Roosevelt began a military build up which, fifty-four years later, like a maddened sorcerer's apprentice, continues to churn out ever more expensive weapons built by an ever-shrinking workforce.

gore vidal

so solly......been reading old gore all weekend.....

Panderamaobama? Where is the dem voice in the failure of retirement plans? McCain is out there and he is making some sense this morning regarding the collapse of the investment banking and mortgage industry (soon to bleed over to consumer banks)....and at this point, I do not care about student loans or sex education...I care about retirement and health care. What sort of country wants its citizens to gamble with their retirement future and then abandon them when private greed has gobbled-up the money? I still believe Mr. o's plan for the baby boomers is soylent green. Perhaps that is the reason he is pandering to the youth vote.

here, sturg, take a break from Gore and read Frank if you haven't. Mr. Rich is pretty much on target with this one. Sorry if this was posted yesterday - I'm too damned lazy to go back and check...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/opinion/14rich.html?em

A Nation of "Haves" and "Have-Nots"?

Far More Americans Now See Their Country as Sharply Divided Along Economic Lines

"Of equal importance, the number of Americans who see themselves among the "have-nots" of society has doubled over the past two decades, from 17% in 1988 to 34% today."

http://pewresearch.org/pubs/593/haves-have-nots

Craig

Thank you for an issues thread. The race horse is fun but issues like this effect many of our lives on a very basic level. And it doesn't get more basic than the roof over your head.

Jack

Will save them energy cost, but...

http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/the_web/article4753389.ece

Blondie, don't be misled. McCain's out there making sense? That would be an interesting change. I'll have to go see what he's saying (not that he means a bit of it if it means people in the lower 95 (% of income, that is) would benefit from any change in the system he's talking about. Remember who his top econ advisor was (and still is behind the scenes at least , I'd wager) Phil "we're just a nation of whiners" Gramm.

"The culture war: It's back!

Democrats may have thought that the disastrous Bush years killed the GOP's favorite tactic. The Palin effect shows they were wrong. "

"The culture war is driven by resentment, on the one hand, and crude identification, on the other. Resentment of "elites," "Washington insiders" and overeducated coastal snobs goes hand in hand with an unreflective, emotional identification with candidates who "are just like me." "

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/09/15/palin_interview/

And that Friedman guy makes sense from time to time, too.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/opinion/14friedman.html?em

"http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/the-american-dream-election.html#comment-145145

sturg, that makes me laugh."

Pogo, that's a real gas!

Pogo...someone wrote a good speech for him today...he wants to create a few more, smaller firms in the industry. Right now, a few mega-firms will only continue to topple the house of cards. This fiscal crisis is not the repugs alone. Where have the dems been all of these years....I know, outnumbered and SILENT...doing nothing while collecting public servant pay.

This is the big one....and at least I heard an attempt at economic triage this morning.

Pogo...Gramm is an idiot, you are correct.

UB,

I guess I can be counted in that category as I do not have a Ferrari 612 Scaglietti, or a 56 inch flat panel 1080 HTDV TV.

"Successive Pew Global Attitudes polls, for example, find that at every income level, Americans are far more likely than Europeans to believe that individuals, not society, are responsible for their own failures"

A lot has to do with perceptions, and not reality.

Considering, the market doesn't look too bad this a.m..

Fry, I think that's one of those ideas that looks pretty good on the surface (sorry), but probably won't be implemented. Even without the peoplw with nefarious intent, the ocean is a pretty inhospitable place to be for long periods of time. Too bad the Gulf of Mexico is so warm and calm - I'm told it's perfectly safe to locate high value floating things there :-) The Japan and Siberian approaches do make some sense, though - why cool air to cool computers when there's plenty of cool air and water to use without doing that?

no matter what, it is always unsettling to wake-up and find yourself financially worth a lot less than the day before.

I think Obama is speaking to all voters, and in regards to the youth vote Obama is able to tap into optimism.....I also think he has inspire many people of all ages to register to vote who never thought their one vote would make any difference.

At the HRC rally yesterday, the ages varied, race varied...I'd say more women then men......but the enthusiasm for Obama was very strong! Zero protesters.

I guess Mr.o's plan for the housing crisis is to arrange for boneheaded decisions for every American when they purchase their next home.

BW,

Hopefully people have enough diversification that they'll be able to view today's happenings as paper losses.

I'm looking at my portfolio and I have a fighting chance to make money today--even with trading nothing. In essence, I can be in a coma and things will still plod along.

That's something I worked toward trying to achieve when we fully retired--sacrificing profit for security.

home ownership isn't the right choice for everyone, it may be considered by some to be the "American Dream" - but it doesn't alway make financial sense....and as with everything financial there is always risk.....( jmo )

"Zero protesters."

That is because Republicans only schedule protests for important things.

Like when a presidential election is going to be determined by nine weak knee oldsters.
Go to florida and have a white fat man riot.

It worked! Scared the bejeezus out of Sandra O'Conner.

Jack

Sock- Thank you for that one. The market melt down is getting me down and your post reminded me it's better to laugh when it hurts too much to cry.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/the-american-dream-election.html#comment-145127

Blonde wino--re: 9:56 post

That's why I've been trying to convince my husband that we should sell our stocks, cash in the I-bonds, withdraw the savings and IRA's and put it all under the mattress. Why let Wall Street party on our dime?

ubns

Too late, the time to do that was last fall.

I told my wife at the time we should put our stock into cash. If I had I would have been at least 10% ahead.

But I didn't, so I'm just in it for the ride.

Just fasten your chin strap and hang on.

Jack

"That's why I've been trying to convince my husband that we should sell our stocks, cash in the I-bonds, withdraw the savings and IRA's and put it all under the mattress. Why let Wall Street party on our dime?"

ubns,
I just dived right down to the bottom of the thread and your's is the first one I read. I think what you said is a very good idea (it's what we did, keep a miniumum in the bank).

Invest in a good safe (we got a full size one at Costco). Keep all your money at home in cash (not even in a bank safe deposit box). I feel a lot more secure because of it.

ubns
when I lost my entire rolled over IRA in 2002, 2 companies in a divorce, I was one devastated single woman. I eventually decided to get out of the stock market, not invest any more in real estate other than my personal home and I paid-off every debt I had. I was called stupid for paying-off my mortgage when money was so cheap and easy to borrow. I admit I panicked, but I never wanted to be homeless. This year my boss lost all in a merger, I went out an found another job at a lesser pay. I am living a lot smaller, but I am getting very uneasy with the financial situation.

Good post Craig -- The American Dream is not only out of reach for young folks -- the bad housing market is starting to affect the older folks too. I have a friend who is dealing with a housing crisis at age 68. She took equity out of her beautiful large home in a gated community to pay medical bills (cancer survivor). The loan was made at the peak of the market and she figured that she was going to sell her house in a couple years so she would be okay with the upside down mortgage. She put the house on the market this year -- and the value was down by $100K. She and her husband rented a place in a retirement community and moved out of their house and started showing it to renters.

The rental market is so soft right now that they couldn't even get enough rent to cover the gap in their budget. Now they're trying to work something out with the mortgage company but are facing a short sale or likely foreclosure. Meanwhile, the owner of the place they're renting just now informed them that he's going bankrupt and the house they're now living in will be foreclosed. They've only lived in the rental house for three months and have a three-year lease. They will have to vacate soon -- but where? How many more rental homes are owned by landlords on the brink of foreclosure? (According to my real estate friends, a lot.)

My friend has worked hard all her life, always paid her bills, taken care of her credit, saved for rainy days and now all of that is gone for her. She's mortified that she will have to probably file for bankruptcy herself. It's pretty hard to start over at 68 years old.

Since most older people tend to have a lot of their wealth in their houses, I have sick feeling that there are a lot more folks in my friend's situation.

flatus, you have those uncommon virtues - good sense and moderation.

Hey, blondie, if you care about retirement plans and healthcare, you aren't interested in McCain. What you're seeing is more of what he'd bring you in the retirement area - after all, the market takes care of all, right? And healthcare - you're on your own. There are any number of ways to make healthcare more accessible and affordable - but McCain isn't seriously proposing any of them that I'm aware of - I know about the tax credit, but it is not going to go anywhere in Congress. Even if it did, it would result in the government subsidizing the health insurance industry through the consumer - along with its 15-20% adminstrative costs, not to mention its profits - as opposed to the 3-5% administrative costs with no profits for shareholders that Medicare has.

And don't be misled by promises about new financial structures that will save home buyers from themselves (Actually, his HOMES programis pretty sensible in theory at least) - the lenders can do that now or the government could impose lending guidelines for the mortgages it underwrites that would largely solve that problem. His website is less specific than McCain's on the issue, but I figure Obama probably will propose something similar.

I've got my back to the tv, McCain's original maverick ad is in heavy rotation today. Everytime I hear the announcer Start with "The Original Mavericks" I think James Garner is going to ride in on a horse. It and our Republican governor candidate's ad are the only positive ads. The rest just endless negative "OOOOH scary, scary."

Jack

Pogo...I do agree with you (and here comes the BUT).
I want to hear otherwise especially from a leader. I crave those reassuring, fireside chats of my parent's generation.

At this point, it is, ask what your country can do for you, not what you can do for your country.

I gave at the office.

What really happened to the Governor's Plane in Alaska

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/10/palins-ebay-story-what-ac_n_125361.html

"At this point, it is, ask what your country can do for you, not what you can do for your country. "

Ain't that the truth Blonde.
I'm like you. Sitting on my hands through this one.

If the Ads I have seen this morning are any indication, it is going to be a long time to november. By that time My "I don't give a damn" hat will be firmly on my hat.

As I told Shiela the other night, negative ads drive down the turn out. Lower turn out always favors the Republicans.
That is why they don't mind getting in a mud fight.

If you are going to take this nation in a positive new direction shouldn't you at least run a few positive ads telling us how great you are?

Jack

Jack...LOL James Garner!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxXUY7-2c5w

Book work done, and you people take up too much time. It is cool and sunny outside. got to get some work done.

Jack

Well, the repugs have successfully t-boned the obamabus. And the dems so proud of the re-introduction of the Obama family to the nation fell flat within a day of their rollout. The repugs have gotten my attention with the choice of Palin...it was really a great tactical choice.

Mr. Mudcat stated we vote for ourselves and a working Mom is a realistic picture of the U.S. Relationship marketing beats brand marketing.

my money's tied up in gasoline and baloney.

my money's tied up in gasoline and baloney.

Sturg...the new guns and butter.

Blonde-
Sounds like paying off your mortgage was a smart financial decision. We did the same.

Chloe-
The safe sounds like a good idea but now I'm thinking-the government doesn't actually have the capital to finance all these bailouts. They have to borrow. So the cash that you and I would have under the mattress and in the safe is losing value. Any other ideas?

Jack-
Seems like the savers among us are bearing the brunt. The spenders seem to be doing okay if of course they can pay off their credit card in full every month.

"If you are going to take this nation in a positive new direction shouldn't you at least run a few positive ads telling us how great you are?"

I'm not sure how he'd do that Jack. There's not a lot a great stuff for him to say, unless he goes back to his original message of being a different kind of politician.

He could at least keep explaining to everyone what it means to be (and support the) Democrats. Point out the things that would help the majority of the people with their current problems. Why waste time on negative ads and speeches when he could talk about the positive changes he would try to implement that would help us all. Strange strategy. He may live to regret it.

Craig A++

Obama = A more socialistic, Higher Tax, More of the same Government control

McCain = Capitalistic, Free Market , Less Government, lasting natural solution.

The choice is clear

Posted by: Ping Pong | September 15, 2008 6:21 AM

Yes it is clear ! OBAMA 2008... only the Repugs would go on about capitalistic free markets as being a lasting solution. Time and again ad nauseum have we seen the excesses of deregulation, a hand's off approach to the various markets and utilities. Try selling your "hands off" "free market" approach to the fine workers of Enron who lost almost every fricken dime they saved for their retirement.

Morning Strug,
McCain brings the true change, just the facts in this one post today alone validate McCain = McChange.
Obama is more of the same government.

The biggest Change Obama brings is Chicago Old Style vs Washington Old Style

McCain is No Bush

Posted by: Ping Pong | September 15, 2008 6:34 AM

Sorry but Obama is not more of the same government. This lists as one of the most stupid claims I have read here in a long time. And sorry, but I am tired of even trying to be polite to Republicans.

Fed is unconstitutional, opaque, ineffective, and undermines our currency and economy. Nothing 'free market' about it. END THE FED.

Posted by: champ | September 15, 2008 7:09 AM

"Free market" means everyone on their own and let the rich get richer while the poor get poorer. If you lose everything, too bad for you.

You guys talk about "free markets" as if it was second only to godliness. What a perversion...

Sorry Champ, I don't mean to dump this on you, but "free markets" have never been "free" and when the big players have been on the brink of disaster, they have also run to the government to be bailed out. Screw the "free markets"... we need more intervention in the economy to ensure that the engines of limited free enterprise and ownership is protected, along with the populace of our nation. THAT is the role of government. If you all want to channel Ronald Reagan again, you could try a seance, but I doubt he'd be any more sensible now, even in spirit form, than the old coot was in life.

ET

You are correct, Mr. o is not the same government, but his type of Chicago government. His lunch box is empty. The dog ate his homework and plan for the US economy (when he gets a dog, that is!)

"So the cash that you and I would have under the mattress and in the safe is losing value. Any other ideas?"

ubns,
I agree with you. But as far as I'm concerned, that's our best bet for the short term anyway. I don't know what you could invest in with any guarantee right now. At some point in the future we know it will turn around. I also think the dollar will go back up in value some time in the future (sooner or later, probably later). It's not real valuable around the world now.

We "could' look at what's happening in a positive light, I suppose. We've definitely been due for some drastic changes here. Maybe what we see now is more of a correction process than anything else. If so, we'll come out the other end a lot better than we went in.

I still think either candidate will be a BIG improvement over Bush. I happen to think McCain is a lot different. And of course so is Obama. We can't lose if you look at it from that perspective.

This election will go a long way toward settling the question of whether groups that purport to speak for American women really do, or merely represent a narrow band of those who tend to be politically active, upper-middle-class and left-leaning."
http://blogs.wsj.com/politicalperceptions/2008/09/14/palin-stokes-class-war-among-women/?mod=homeblogmod_politicalperceptions

Now that we have heard from the ultra right wing Wall Street Journal (they sure don't have an agenda in mind, do they?), let's take another look at Feminism from the viewpoint of women who have been dissed constantly by the likes of WSJ and conservatives...

Have Conservatives Discovered Sexism?

Below the Belt: A Column by NOW PAC Chair Kim Gandy

September 5, 2008

Hey, have you heard? Conservatives have discovered sexism in the media!

And they're learning that it's disrespectful toward women, potentially damaging to their careers, intrusive into their personal lives, and just plain unfair. That is, unless a feminist like Hillary Clinton is charging the media with sexism -- then it's called liberal whining or playing the gender card.

http://www.now.org/news/note/090508.html

ET

You are correct, Mr. o is not the same government, but his type of Chicago government. His lunch box is empty. The dog ate his homework and plan for the US economy (when he gets a dog, that is!)
Posted by: Blonde wino | September 15, 2008 11:03 AM

Yeah well I agree with you to a point... but he's better than the alternative... by the way, Tina Fey on SNL... OMG I almost peed my pants.

Moral hazards?????

Talk about lipstick on pig.

If Shrub (and Ronnie Raygun) cared more about main street and less about Wall Street (same for the media) policies and understanding would be different.

That type of thinking would be very unwise for the Black community. If you ever attend a gun show, what you'll see is is Whites buying firearms in large numbers, buying ammo clips that hold more than the manufacturer recommendations, and buying these semi automatic assault rifles. What you do not see at these gun shows are Blacks. Whites are legally, silently arming themselves. That is just a fact of life.

Posted by: FryDaddy | September 15, 2008 7:20 AM

Fry Daddy, the more you write about Blacks, the more I get the feeling you REALLY don't like them!

ET...wasn't Tina fabulous? It might be worth it to see that humor continued for the next four years. At least the repugs will keep us laughing. Can't say a damn thing about Obama or else will be viewed as a racist.

Alan Greenspan, was at the helm of the FED when this all started, he was at the helm of the FED when the dot com bubble burst.

Posted by: FryDaddy | September 15, 2008 7:33 AM

Translation, Free-market Republican FED leader messes up the economy.

Who was the first to sell us the "American Dream" fallacy anyway? The path to happiness is to be indebted to the banking industry. Are people who rent less happy than those who own their homes or have mortgages?

Posted by: ubns | September 15, 2008 9:00 AM

Historian and writer James Truslow Adams coined the phrase "American Dream" in his 1931 book The Epic of America;

"The American Dream is that dream of a land in which life should be better and richer and fuller for everyone, with opportunity for each according to ability or achievement. It is a difficult dream for the European upper classes to interpret adequately, and too many of us ourselves have grown weary and mistrustful of it. It is not a dream of motor cars and high wages merely, but a dream of social order in which each man and each woman shall be able to attain to the fullest stature of which they are innately capable, and be recognized by others for what they are, regardless of the fortuitous circumstances of birth or position."

As for owning a home, after seeing people hold their houses for 30, 40 years and selling it for a windfall, I think a lot of us would have been better in that situation instead of paying landlords to help them become richer...

KGC

The recent economic crisis has been tied to the Reagan years...however, what are the dems doing? Bound and gagged? The Obama campaign killed-off the Clintons whose governing interlude was one of the most fiscally responsible period in recent history.

I do think the dems will eventually regret their choice for prez....this appears to be slipping away.

their beer also has a higher % of alcohol than American beers. My mistake was thinking I would stay in one of these beer halls until the sun went down, when it went down, I went out. lol My only excuse was I was in the Navy, very much younger than I am today, and those friendly Canadians kept buying us more beer.

Posted by: FryDaddy | September 15, 2008 8:06 AM

I sell beer in my gas station that is from 4.9 % alcohol up to 12% alcohol. How the Belgians can drink all that beer is beyond me. One beer and I'm ready for sleep!

"Can't say a damn thing about Obama or else will be viewed as a racist."

Bonde,
That is the strangest thing to me. To automatically think people are racists. To me, when people talk openly and honestly about things, it show's me they aren't racists. Why would so many think the absolute worst of other people?

Chloe....as you know, humor is my hot button. And very few will take on Obama. The POTUS has typically been the butt of jokes from cartoons to late night monologes. WIll we have the same raw material in Obama? I think not.

I watched an AA comedian on HBO joke about Hispanics having babies like the popcorn out of the jiffy pop on the stove...pop, pop,pop....the audience went wild. Change the ethnic group and this would be considered racist.

My ex in Belgium thinks that Obama will lose, and I say the race is basically tied. I hope that my fellow Americans get smarter and really look at the issues of this election and look at where each candidate stands on said issues. Every candidate running has a record... people need to explore that and decide which candidate(s) or party best represents their hopes for the future. What I find appalling, is this almost "rock star" status placed on Sarah Palin by a country that a few weeks ago didn't even know her, and sadly enough, know little or nothing about what she has done as Mayor and Governor in Alaska. The more I read about her agenda, the more worried I get. This election is serious stuff. People need to read, listen and learn. ALL OF US.

I am watching Palin in Colorado...she is good. Whether I agree with her politics, she is a good at what she does. In a world of appearances, this will win the day, not being told that the other side thinks we are stupid. She doesn't treat the little people as stupid. Great tactical play. Oh boy, Axelrod didn't see this coming.

"...we should sell our stocks, cash in the I-bonds, withdraw the savings and IRA's and put it all under the mattress."

ubns, chloe et al:

http://www.cartoonistgroup.com/store/add.php?iid=25880

The 2008 Electoral College Prediction Markets tightened slightly this week according to analysis using Intrade.com State-by-State Presidential Futures Market data.

http://worldsofspike.blogspot.com

Biden talking...blame not answers. Sarcasm, not solutions. Where have you been Mr Biden to stop this crap?

BW, I agree, but then I have said the American people have been largely stupid for a long time. I mean, we elected Ronald Reagan twice, and even after Bush jr. was SELECTED we elected him one time. I don't get it... I am souring on politics. If the Repugs win this election, I think we should just give it up and turn the damn country over to the Religious Right...

Now Biden is painting Mr. o as "wise." Hmm...how did he gather this political wisdom?

"If the Democrats can’t take the [White House] now, they deserve to go the way of the Whigs."

I think that was a quote from George Will

ET

"I mean, we elected Ronald Reagan twice, and even after Bush jr. was SELECTED we elected him one time. I don't get it... I am souring on politics."

It is the "powers that be" that "give" us our candidates. The souring note this year is that Obama "won" the primaries just like Bush "won" the 200 election. Not all wanted him as the dem choice. I have never been able to shake the feeling that he has been shoved down our throats throughout this process.

Plus, we have "chosen" the next prez from the Senate pool of losers....geez, no wonder Palin is energizing people. She is truly the only Washington outsider.

We are in deep trouble.

Make that the 2000 election, not 200 (although it does feel like we are moving back to the dark ages.)

"I am watching Palin in Colorado...she is good. Whether I agree with her politics, she is a good at what she does."

I agree Blonde.
(with this post and the one on humor).

It is SO good to see a woman running for higher office, whether I agree with her or not. That's what some seem unable to understand. But to me it's exciting no matter what happens. To use the expression, I have no horse in this race, but I don't see how we can lose. We get rid of Bush. Plus we either have an African American or a woman in high office.

I like her tremendously. If some think that makes me a bad person, tough.

Now we're on a hunt for supplies. Hopefully things will start getting back to normal here in Houston.

Later.

Good luck, Chloe!

Most of us are late 30s on up, so we have some experience in how buying a home has changed over the decades. For those that have bought a home, what was the cost, year, state, terms, interest etc.

Commercial interuption. Watching Good Morning American. I could listen to James Taylor forever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9MncdJ_lOs

Back to houses

1964 California $21,900 4br 2 ba track home. 20 year mortgage at 5 3/4% local bank loan. $3,000 down. $150 per month. People buying it: Young couple 22 and 20 with two children (almost 1 1/2 year old and new born).

There were less expensive homes in the area in the $15 - 18 thousand range, but because we had the down payment from an inheritance, we were able to qualify for the better home by the skin of our teeth.

We were a little on the young side for a first home purchase, but it was common for couples to buy their first home well before 30.

I hear that sucking sound again from the vacuum of leadership.

The dems need to step-up with a plan....come home America! We have things to do in this hemisphere.

chloe, good luck with the supplies. I have a niece in Houston - her house was pretty much unscathed, although there is what looks like a 75+ y.o. liveoak down in the front yard and she doesn't have power. I think she's camping out in Waco with a cousin until the power comes back on - a little warm for no a/c and a boil water advisory.

and now ... lunch

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/the-american-dream-election.html#comment-145235

The trouble with Palin is that she makes empty air sound attractive. I thought Obama was very good at this, but I have to admit she does a whole lot more with a lot, lot less. She's a political souffle ... all looks and no substance.

Jamie...exactly. But, let them eat souffle (which is incredibly difficult to bake and eggs are a cheap protein source). There is a hunger for a woman in politics.

EuroTom -- How the Belgians can drink all that beer is beyond me."

Practice, Practice, Practice...

Ping Pong...

| September 15, 2008 6:21 AM

Your post at 6:21 misses the point about what caused the crisis.

Loans that met Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac guidelines are considered Conforming or Prime Loans.

FHA are loans similar in pricing to conforming loans but they allow for more credit leniency and allow alternate credit to be used to qualify for a loan.

The Sub Prime mortgages, such as 80/20 purchases, W-2 Stated, Option Arms, Jumbo Loans, which are the source of most bad loans in this current cycle were the brain child of a secondary market that these failing investment banks created because they saw that the yields on these investments were far better than the safer MBS backed by conforming loans. So long as property values increased, there were market forces to mask the absolutely putrid judgment of these companies.

Had this market been properly monitored and regulated, the mess may have happened, but nowhere to this extent.

Unfortunately, it was the one of the three mortgage segments that didn't have a direct or indirect government presence which failed most miserably and has created this havoc.

If you want to dissolve Fannie and Freddie,

* Who will then set basic underwriting guidelines?
* Who will determine loan limits for mortgages?
* Who will manage the secondary mortgage market to maintain a flow of cash and credit into the market to keep things running?

The world would be a much better place if Greenspawn would keep his effin' mouth shut.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_obama.html

Obama is a tall skinny liar

* Who will then set basic underwriting guidelines?
* Who will determine loan limits for mortgages?
* Who will manage the secondary mortgage market to maintain a flow of cash and credit into the market to keep things running?

Bear

Household Finance ?
;-P

Jack

McCain flunky isn't safe from scorn from Fox News...lol

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/15/foxs-megyn-kelly-works-ov_n_126473.html

Jack,

I just cracked a rib laughing so hard...too bad HSBC hit the implode meter last year...

Jack...household finance...another oxymoron.

Bear

Basic disclaimer:
I am not resposible for injuries from reading my comments.

But I'm sure the market will provide another HSBC too make us secure, it always does.

You keep an eye on this stuff more than I. Is there anybody out there trying to get to the bottom of all the fraud and corruption that went on in the mortgage industry. Not just the big guys but down to the outrageous appraisals I saw happening in my neighborhood.

Jack

I am going to walk my dog, get some free vitamin D and head to work.

This financial game of musical chairs isn't one the American people wanted to play.

Jack,

This is a book I make anyone interested in either becoming a mortgage originator or someone curious about what happened read...

Confessions of a Subprime Lender:

An Insider's Tale of Greed, Fraud & Ignorance

The author's website is here and it's a great place to check out...

http://www.lendingsanity.com/

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/the-american-dream-election.html#comment-145261

I can't see where having a woman just because she is a woman is a good idea. Stupid, political opportunism with an unqualified religious nut case is hardly the place to start.

BW

Several years ago I knew someone that worked for them as a (loan officer ?) At the time they charged 30% apr for loans. He told me he processed loans for people that could have gotten a good loan from a bank. I ask why they did it. he said one of the main reason was the speed of the loan. They wanted the money for that motorcycle now so they could be riding it this afternoon.

It is beyond my ability to understand.

Jack

unqualified religious nut case is hardly the place to start.

yeah only if they are men then it's ok for them to run
Like Huckabee,Tancredo and Gary Bauer

Jack,

I learned the mortgage business in the mid 90's from someone who was a pioneer in the industry.

One of the ways you overcame the rate objection would be with actual payment. Since interest is a function of time, it's easy to show someone that by paying off $40,000 in credit cards and other debt, justifies raising the rate on the mortgage a little bit. When the dust settles, your actual payment could be dropping $500 a month or more.

Now, I worked for an FSB at the time and many customers not only paid higher rates, but paid 4% origination fee as well. They did it since our loan didn't have any prepayment penalties, because we could close in 1/4 the time of their bank and if they had any kind of credit issues, we could get them approved while their own bank would reject them.

" political opportunism with an unqualified religious nut case is hardly the place to start. "

Except, that is not what the people who count in this election see, And it doesn't discribe Palin at all.

I like the Obama statement, obviously a good politician, but wrong for us at this time.

A much better attack in my opinion.

jack

Bear

thanks for the information and insight. lunch is over time to get back to work. Need to dust the crumbs off the key board befor it gets all gumbed up.

Jack

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/the-american-dream-election.html#comment-145284

Applause, applause ... total grasp of my comment and a genius example of an analogy

Great Oped. really well expressed. Comparing Clinton with Palin......such a huge difference....

Bizzaro Hillary Clinton

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/09/bizzaro-hillary-clinton.php

Hillary Clinton did more for women in her primary run for the Whitehouse than can be stated here. The pride she infused in women of today showed them that nothing was beyond their reach. Sarah Palin cheapens everything Hillary Clinton stands for.

McCain's move in picking her as a VP candidate was a political ploy in order to attract women voters. There is no other reason to pick someone who is so incredibly inexperienced to assume the second highest office in our nation.

All this, I'm sure is preaching to the choir here. I'm writing this for my own benefit honestly. I was not a Hillary supporter during the primaries. My wife was and we had many interesting conversations. However, after taking a good look at Sarah Palin, I have a new-found respect for what Hillary has done over her career.

What I've found most interesting is that McCain's choice of Sarah Palin has really energized my wife and others like her to vote Obama/Biden. I've also read blogs of former "PUMA's" who are now coming back home as well

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/the-american-dream-election.html#comment-145290

They all deserved to lose as well, and they did.

Why thank you Jamie ;0)

http://barackbook.com/

I just received a notice that the next Blog Blast for Peace will take place on November 5. I've been participating for a few years now, and those of you with blogs might like to join in on the event. It is both poignant and fun with lots of great stories and thoughts all unified by single globe around the planet.

Check out the details at the organizer's website with Queen Mimi of Blogginham Castle where "mimiwrites"

http://mimiwrites.blogspot.com/2008/08/blogblast-for-peace-is-here-november-6.html

Before I head out...demographic notes on the recent polling...

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/demographic_notes_2008_presidential_race

Hi Sheila...nice to hear from you.

"Posted by: Emmett Flatus | September 15, 2008 12:21 PM"

No relation to me.
Flatus Ohlfahrt

Recommendation: The best place to get polling information is realclearpolitics.com.

You get a complete picture at this site.

Hey,

I see that Obama will be in Central Park the end of October...should be interesting...

When is the national Hussein day though?

Chloe asked at post 8:07

Is the truth about the R's and the D's are right in the middle.YES YES,been there since -----------forever.If you ever seen following

you ever seen children arguing
you ever seen co-workers arguing
you ever seen friends arguing etc, that say's im right. You experience tells you that there is some truth from all involved, it is right in the middle.

Are we creating more and more partisan(future voters)I used to walk,run,bike to nearest park to play sports----all kinds---now kids are driven,in gas guzzling suv's by their parents, in a lot of cases they pay for special training of one sport or the other,they pick a sport, a side, a type of person they want you to identify with.Any way it's always been right the middle--but now you have the R's (Carl Rove---manager)win at all costs,thats why they win the big one's they train for potus----then you have the Bush league--pun intended, theD's still minor league since Reagan.Trying to be just like the R's. Im cought in the middle as always.

This guy G Vidal makes me think about picking sides and joining the rational thinking people here---stop it---stop it, my head hurts. Both children R's and D's have some truth to them--but Ron Paul ,a little whacky as he may be, talks to the truth more so far to me,thanks.

Pres Clinton's team the war room, was big leagues,

Well, I was wondering when she would show up on "Weekend Update," for a reverse parody, but it seems she's already gone there.

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20225789,00.html

I know. Marcia, Marcia, Marcia! What about Jan? er, John?

Avast, belay yer fussin' an a fightin' ye scurvey dogs.

Remember Sept. 19 is Talk Like a Pirate Day.

http://www.talklikeapirate.com/piratehome.html

Arrrrrh

Jack

Well, the day's repug talking points must be (a) the free market will fix whatever crises exist in the financial markets as a result of regulation and (b) the new deal is a failed experiment. Limpballs is all over that and he is I am sure pissed at Palin and McCain for even suggesting an overhaul of the regulatory mechanisms in the mortgage industry. Of course the reason for those tps is that the FHA (which has LITTLE OR NOTHING to do with the apparent problems in the mortgage markets was a centerpiece of the New Deal - bad FDR.

Solar Crete.

You thinking is actually where I was before 9/11. safety breeds that comfortable middle. However, here we are with the end of the Bush Presidency and the promise of another four years.

There are many that wold like to take the middle. But in crisis, our "Greatest Generation" had to take sides. They could not afford the middle.

In case, you haven't figured it out, this country is undergoing a class war. We have an actually Civil War of class going on.

Even though I really aggree that Ron Paul makes sense and so did Gravel, BTW, both will live to fight another day.

Right now, you either figure out what side you are on and fight for it. Or your protest in the middle is moot anyway.. Its a lose/lose this year.

From the "Right To Vote" to our founding father's fight to separate from England, the ones in the middle, like South Carolina's or New York's Reps in the Contintental Congress, lost.

Crisis calls for Strong Voices and uncomfortable stands to push a country in the right direction. Only after that can we comfortably move back to the middle.

Pogo,

FHA is the only government program that can make the claim that is the one completely self sufficient and operates at no cost to tax payers.

Here is an interesting look at polling data about the Stimulus checks...

http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/

jack, stop yer yappin' and pass the rum.

Is it possible that with more and more women in sport helped Sen. C?(break that glass ceiling) does the sports mentality (male dominated) leak into our politic, we have a few more female's in the Sen, and hse now---because more women in sports,action movies,in the armed services,etc?

McCain won't disclose his full health records?

http://therealmccain.com/doctors/?utm_source=rgemail

Bear, so true - FHA destroys the s*&the%$'s argument. One of the 2 most highly regulated lenders (along with VA) and it is doing fine, thank you very much.

bear, McCain doesn't want to disclose them or his financial records - imagine!!

wasn't it our dear departed Ronald Reagan that started the de-regulation craze? He was a Republican right? enough said.

"Crisis calls for Strong Voices and uncomfortable stands to push a country in the right direction. Only after that can we comfortably move back to the middle. "

heard that all morning,
The ad started out, "The Original Mavericks"

then a bunch of ads that said ,
"No hes not" ,
"Yes He is
" No he's not and he looks like George Bush" ,
" Well, more than you, You, Harry Reid, same ole stuff, liberal namby,pamby"

"niener, niener, niener , niener."

Sometime, around there I turned off the tv

So Shiela, why isn't your man out there telling me how he is going to save the world and how I'm gonna love it?
It is a long time to November, time for all of us to get totally disgusted and tune out.

Jack

Pogo,

Like I posted earlier, the only reason Fannie/Freddie went south is that they were forced to buy the crap loans off the secondary market to try and maintain some liquidity in the market.

Sub Prime mortgages didn't conform to Fannie/Freddie guidelines. They were deemed not good enough and it's not a shock that Sub Prime failed since it pushed the limits of common sense. Who pushed, the same investment banks and mortgage lenders who have all failed.

Chef Sheila :

The people in that vote for Indies, are the not comfy, they are the few, the chosen, the proud,(sorry forgot myself) hey i think we are pretty valiant voting for someone that we know are going to lose, you try it I dare you.

Jack My Dear.

LOL All I ever expected from you. You gave up a long long time ago.

I'd rather fight.

BTW, Obama is beginning again. This latest crisis will give the Media a reason to tune in again. I just heard Obama in Colorado talking about the crisis.

So go ahead and tune out. That is you right and I leave you too that. My son's generation is building large numbers to make a choice. They are young enough to want to take a stand.

Looks like your "Love-In" is just about to change hands and thats a good thing. Lean back and enjoy it Jack!

Pogo, Bear

Evidently the farm version of fannie mae, the commodity credit corporation is doing fine. My brother in law had no trouble getting a loan through them to buy part of my moms farm. We were very suprised.

Jack

Here's Krugman's column from today's Times - guess what it's about...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/15/opinion/15krugman.html?hp

He knows his stuff.

Solar Crete,

I respect your decision. Thats not the comfortable middle. You are a good citizen for your stand.

Sheila

If folks like me are tuning out your man and the Democratic party is in trouble.

Just a fact.

Jack

Bear, Jack, yup, my take is that in this latest round of problems, the less regulated the sector in the industry, the worse the problem. Bear, you agree?

Instead of bailing out the institutions, the Federales should hav bailed out the subprime borrowers. People would still be in their houses, with a mortgage they can afford and paying property taxes. I think it would have been cheaper.

Chef Sheila:

I love to cook(when it comes out right) and it does mostly, it's the cleaning up after that i object to.I seem to drop things when i wash,(my dis washer broke a little while back)my toes are turtles when they sense danger they just curl up,but sooner or later------

Pogo

He know his stuff when he is talking about economics. That, column should be a must read, good information out there.

Jack

Jack

Your writing the ending before the ink is dry,

Thats a fact too. ;0)

So In the spirit of Craig Crawford and his oldest rule in this blog.

I will agree that we disagree

Solar Crete

REmember than in our political system, third parties have always existed not to hold office but to influence positions by the two major parties whatever those two major parties might be. At times major parties have been replaced by a party growing out of them and replacing them such as the Whigs that became the new Republican party, but for the most part it is influence rather than votes that the third parties are after (i.e. virutally all of the social programs desired by the Socialists were adopted in part by the Democrats)

In a parliamentary system, multiple parties can exist, but in a Democracy, two or three seems to be the functional limit creating a "Big Tent" atmosphere. Unfortunately this can lead to the division we now see of extremes where the far right has taken over the Republicans and the far left has taken over the Democrats while as always the people tend to move back and forth across a broad middle.

You can get whiplash in a year when the public decides it's time to "throw the bums out" and overturns control to the opposition party in a very active election year. This has the potential to be that kind of year, up and down ticket.

heheheh

Update | 12 p.m.: Senator McCain’s statement that “the fundamentals of our economy are strong” is drawing a lot of heat from Democrats, with Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr. particularly pointed during remarks he delivered in St. Clair Shores, Mich.:

“That’s what John said,” Mr. Biden said in quoting Mr. McCain’s remarks. “He says that we’ve made great progress economically in the Bush years.”

“I could walk from here to Lansing and I wouldn’t run into a single person who thought our economy was doing well, unless I ran into John McCain.”

From the NYT blog - you go, Joe.

Solar Crete.

I know......a cook is a cook is a chef. In all our jobs, there is one aspect that you don't like. I have taken the clean up and made it a point of pride. So I clean as I go, unless I didn't make enough time for the process.

I also do my dishes by hand all day and then use the dishwasher at night before I get off.

saves energy and keeps me on my toes. ;0)

'scuse me, I misspoke - it's from the Caucus (NYT) not the blog.

unqualified religious nut case is hardly the place to start.

yeah only if they are men then it's ok for them to run
Like Huckabee,Tancredo and Gary Bauer

Posted by: sock drawer open | September 15, 2008 12:45 PM

Who the hell ever said it was ok for them to run? They are all slime!

Jamie

Thank you,before the whigs that became the R's, how many parties were there?how many sides to each party that has was molded into one.

" political opportunism with an unqualified religious nut case is hardly the place to start. "

Except, that is not what the people who count in this election see, And it doesn't discribe Palin at all.

Posted by WhiskeyJack

Jack, "religious nut case" describes Sarah to a T. As for "political opportunism" it describes what McInsane did in choosing her, to a T. "Unqualified" also fits. It is totally the Powerpuff Girl.

Here's the soft underbelly of the dem party that McCain has targeted with Palin.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/washington/AP-Palins-Targets.html

"In an AP-GfK Poll conducted Sept. 5-10, about two-thirds of working-class whites who are likely to vote said Palin shared their values and principles, as well as their positions on issues, and three-quarters said so about McCain. Roughly half said Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama shares their values, principles and positions.

"The numbers were similar among white blue-collar women, with 65 percent saying Palin shared their values, and 71 saying McCain did, compared to 52 percent for Obama and 46 percent for Democratic vice presidential nominee Joe Biden.

"Overall, the poll showed McCain taking a slim lead over Obama."

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/the-american-dream-election.html#comment-145329

Who in hell did they think put all those returning servicemen and their eldest children in homes from the 40s through the 70s before Republican greed took over the market and ruined it?

"Is there anybody out there trying to get to the bottom of all the fraud and corruption that went on in the mortgage industry."

jack, yeah, those same guys who haven't the guts to get to the bottom of the fraud & corruption re iraqi war should get cracking. if the felons in the wh can get away with murder, why can't the greedy financiers? mighty arm of justice applies only to us peons.

"Instead of bailing out the institutions, the Federales should hav bailed out the subprime borrowers." KGC

Excellent point KGC, but those subprime borrowers couldn't afford to hire the lobbyists they would have needed to pull that one off.

"Your writing the ending before the ink is dry"

No but the trend is there and obvious. This morning with all the ads playing in the background the only one with a positive can do message is McCain.
Obama was all negative all morning.
McCain would lead with a positive then counter punch with a negative.

In the last 2 weeks McCain has stolen Obama's change message and stolen the lead.
Obama is still not getting ads out to define himself, McCain is.

It is like winning the Superbowl It is rare to see a team win with only offence or defence it takes a balance of both.

Jack

Pogo,

When the sector's problems are the result of abuse from within the sector, yes, more regulation is important.

I would liken it to being parents and going away for the weekend, then coming home to find the house trashed because your kids had a raging party.

To keep it from happening again, you either
a) don't go away or
b) ground your kids and make them stay with family...

Either scenario means more rules not less...

If you look at any index of financial stocks, the index is up significantly, despite all of the major implosions. What is shaking out with Merril Lynch, Bear Stears, Lehman Brothers, is proof that the market is finally punishing greed and stupidity. Fannie/ Freddie was used as a way to try and back stop the market to keep them from going under...thankfully eruption will be allowed to let off some steam and we will be better for it.

Posted by: Bear Author Profile Page | September 15, 2008 12:23 PM
Bear,

Your assessment has the ring of truth without the veneer of political spin. This is first time I had an opportunity to answer your questions below.

toast

Bear,

A question I've been asking for a while is do you think a restored DLC has Hillary Clinton at it's head?

I think Hillary's impressive primary showing, {excluding caucus states} the debates where she clearly dominated, makes that possible, but regardless she will be its most powerful voice IMHO.

Do you think HRC could beat Palin in 4 years? I suspect that much of the bitterness Clinton folks have now will be returned in four years time.

Unknowable.

Were Hillary to capture the nomination in 4 years, do you see her with Harold Ford Jr. or will his white wife be a problem then?

Sounds like a dream ticket but 4 years is a lifetime.

Posted by: Bear

Bear,
I believe Harold Ford, Hillary, and Bill Clinton have all been invisibly impaled, damaged for various reasons by Obama's run for POTUS. Each is wounded by the ties to Obama and Hillary and Ford are inexorable linked, their fates combined, awaiting the outcome of this election. I like Ford and hold him in high regard, his future left to the caprice of Obama's success or failure. If Obama looses the election then the pairing of Hillary and Ford would be their sublime restoration for both of them and be a masterstroke IMHO. I believe such a ticket with two muscular advocates on foreign policy would seize the center and deny the repugs any and all footholds. Palin's popularity in 4 years the only wild card?

PUMA/Clintons4McCain

regards,
toast

"The biggest risk for WM is a run on deposits," said Chris Brendler, analyst with Stifel Nicolaus & Co. "With all the negative headlines and recent IndyMac failure, WM's retail deposit franchise is a huge concern to us as a significant outflow of consumer deposits could lead to devastating liquidity problems since the company has apparently already lost access to the capital markets."

http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUSLF20457920080915

...and McCain is saying the economy is strong....? uh that's odd.

jamie, it went something like this didn't it? Federalists v. Democratic-Republicans - to- Whigs v. Democrats - to - Republicans v. Democrats? I know there was some overlap , with the Whigs and Democrats having both sprung from the Democratic-Republican party. I think the way to express it is that there have only been 2 major political parties that existed and were able to successfully field presidential candidates and broad slates of down ticket candidates at any one time in the US, and the current parties have been the two dominant parties since about 1856.

Solar Crete

Here is a list of the US Presidents. As you can see it was Democratic and Whig from the early 1800s but then the question of Slavery steadily split the Whigs and they eventurally became the new Republicans with their first candidate John C. Fremont in 1856 and their first elected President with Lincoln in 1860.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Presidents_of_the_United_States

What is interesting is that due to third and splinter party influence the parties actually switched philosophies.

Orignially the Democrats were more conservative and the Republicans more liberal. In the 1920s Socialist and Populist influences on the left and the growth of anti populist and America firsters on the right had things in flux. With the walk out of the Dixie Crats to the Republicans, the complete reversal was finally made. While all of that was taking place in the 40s through 60s, both parties were actually right and left of moderate. Now they are at their most extreme now and the move back to the middle should start all over again.

"Bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create money and control credit, and with a flick of a pen they will create enough to buy it back."

-Josiah Stamp

END THE FED

Obama is turning out to be even a worse general election candidate that I thought he would be.

For a weak candidate like John McCain to even be running even or ahead illustrates the weakness of the field.

One thing that puzzles me is that when McCain stumbles, voters don't seem to care.

Again, I say, Obama's only chance for victory is a big implosion by the McCain campaign..any day now???

edv, pogo wrote at 8:54, among other things:
"Any bailout should be some sort of assistance to the borrower, and not to the lender if the purpose of the bailout is to aid homeowners by reducing the number of defaults instead of aiding financiers."
i agree with pogo. unfortunately, he's wrong in assuming an altruistic purpose like aiding homeowners can be a reality. but then we can dream.

Your writing the ending before the ink is dry"

And I stand by my Statement Jack. Patience is a Virtue. ;0) 49 days is a long time in politics.

OD

I think that none of his stumbles are new, like the one Pogo pointed out. It should be a game ender, but he has said it before. Many people have taken everything that is being thrown at him and still trust him more than Obama.
Obama has gotten himself into a box. He is a liberal big city politician. America is not going to elect a big city politician. Look how good Rudy did. If it wasn't for Bush's total screwups, Obama would be out of it.

Jack

sheila, that ink dried and became denver dust at the vp nomination.

"Patience is a Virtue"

Not when a Mac truck is barreling down on you at 80 mile an hour.
;-0

Jack

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/the-american-dream-election.html#comment-145363

patd, you misread what I consider simply a desired result as the intent of altruism - probably as a result of my terseness. I see creating a "mortgage distress relief fund" or something of the like that allows borrowers in danger of foreclosure to secure sufficient funds to avoid that fate as accomplishing the same thing for the lenders who wrote unsustainable mortgages as would a direct bailout of the lender (through a special low interest short term loan or something of the like), but the fund would have the added benefit of allowing the borrowers to avoid foreclosure. Both approaches have one common result - saving the lender - the fund would alss save the borrower. That might be an altruistic component, but at the heart fo the matter, there ain't no altruism.

"he's wrong in assuming an altruistic purpose like aiding homeowners can be a reality"

It would be nice but I don't know how you would do it. And IMO, there needs to be a little learning done on the part of the home buyer too. He is not exactly an innocent bystander either.

Jack

EdVB

Unlike some others who could afford lobbyists
Fannie and Freddie have enjoyed special, indeed, cozy relations with Washington, facilitated in part by the companies’ $170 million in lobbying expenditures since 1998 and the $1.5 million they have contributed to members of Congress.

And Obama is number three or four on the list of elected officials receiving the most money. (Clinton is right behind him.)

The two companies' lobbying efforts have also been buttressed by millions in campaign cash, doled out in a bipartisan fashion.

Since 1989, Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae employees have given $19.5 million to federal candidates and committees, 53 percent to Republicans, according to the center. Combined, they would be the 25th largest giver during that period, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. About 57 percent of Freddie Mac's money went to Republicans, while about 52 percent of Fannie Mae's went to Democrats.

Fannie Mae so far in this two-year election cycle has given $1.3 million, twice as much as Freddie Mac, the center said. Both are giving more to Democrats in this election cycle.

Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama, an Illinois senator, has raised $103,899 from both companies' employees for his presidential run, compared with $15,650 for his Republican opponent, Arizona Senator John McCain, according to the center's figures.

The companies' largesse also included donations of $100,000 each last year to the Congressional Black Caucus Foundation Inc., chaired by Representative Kendrick Meek, a Florida Democrat.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aA6fdeTelSDQ&refer=us

Just out obama tried to secretly keep troops in iraq! wow what a leader,just to win a election.

by vp nomination i meant biden, whom i love dearly, but his selection is why we are saddled with sp.
your guy goofed sheila. big time.

I know north-eastern Ohio is generally Democrat country, but people here are really, really energized.....very pro Obama - I haven't seen this level of involvement the past.

Biggest change is the ground -work, the grass root efforts.....there are events planned and schedule almost every single day, and I have heard the turn outs are good.

dog, that is all well and good, but it is not translating into a swing in support toward Obama; largely, IMO because the Repugs are successfully (at least for now) pinning the failures of the financial markets on the failures of government regulation of those markets and are equating regulation with Dems. That and McCain and Palin are connecting with voters in the middle better than Obama and Biden are. There is absolutely no reason I can see that Obama and Biden shouldn't be hanging ten on this wave, but all I see is them paddling around waiting for the next wave. Maybe the press isn't giving them the exposure, or maybe they aren't putting their own comments out there in enough ads - I can't say - but It ain't resonating like it should and McCain is still trending upward.

The other day someone said they would like to see the forclosed houses be bulldozed. In my neighborhood I would like to see some of the small ones disappear. We have many 800-900 sq ft shotgun bungalows. If it weren't for the people getting hurt, a tornado would do this neighbothood alot of good.

Jack

Like I said, patd,

the ink isn't dry yet. IN 49 days, we will know who was right. But at least I am possitive enough an humble enough to understand not to call the end before the end is in sight.

I'd say that if the polls are in favor of McCain by the second half of October, I will concede to your way of thinking. But before that, I'd say you and Jack Both, are making empty posture.

ub, scroll down to OH

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/battleground.html

hard to find the excitement you're talking about in those poll results. Obama should be miles ahead of McCain in the rust belt, but he's struggling to stay even. I really don't get it.

Jack,

What I can tell you, and this is from counseling home buyers is that when told what they can qualify for and what they can afford, they will always go for the most they can get. This was especially true if they were putting no money down.

If you think about it, if you don't put any money down and you pay a mortgage for 2 years before you lose the house, most look at it like they paid rent for 2 years and got some tax benefits in the interim.

I tell everyone I counsel that I can qualify you for at least 10-20% more house than you can comfortably afford. Then I do the monthly budget to show them why that's the case. If they still insist on using rose colored glasses to go for the gusto, I'll do the loan for them, but I will let them know that they have 0 margin of error and be prepared to never have a social life.

pogo, sorry for the misread and for taking your words in vain. wasn't something on the order that your proposing tried during the keating debacle or am i thinking of some other repug financial disaster? they all seem to look alike you know.

How about an implosion of the American economy? Neither McCain nor Palin is equipped to deal with that.

And Mr. Do Nothing, No-Nothing, (ET as in EMPTY SUIT) who never ran a business of any kind is, never balanced a budget, zero executive skills is? LMAO

Off to snatch a car from another dead beat, a BHO supporter at that. LOL. True story, has a BHO bumper sticker. Call the hook.

You probably won't have to worrying about hm being armed, then, Fry. You might get some organic pachouli pepper-spray to the face, though. Stay safe.

"But at least I am possitive enough an humble enough to understand not to call the end before the end is in sight."

sheila, i thought you were one of those telling hrc to quit before the primaries ended and the 18 million voters had their say. sorry about that misread too and for my apparent lack of humility.

By the way,

Don't forget that in the short term with Lehman, unemployment will spike now and that down the road, the Merril acquisition will also raise unemployment.

patd - no prob - I was looking at it from the perspective of deriving the greatest benefit to the most parties using a given sum of money only. That may have been tried in the Keating mess - I can't recall the details of that one. I do recognize that there is no doubt that administering a bailout that targets the borrower would require a bigger bureaucracy than just dumping money into the financial institutions, though.

Fry, none of them has done that - but they're what we have to choose from at this point. For what it's worth - Lehman employees contributed over twice as much to the Obama campaign than to McCain's.

patd,

lol you have it wrong again. I'm one of those, "If Hillary had won, I would have joined her Campaign" people. This election, the issues are most important to me and to the country.

If Hillary Had been chosen as VP, I'd have back her in an instant. Of course, that is who I am. I'm sorry you are so uncomfortable this election.

Good luck with that.

Pogo is right. There's no way to protect the borrowers/homeowners without also protecting the lenders. Perhaps lenders could be forced to write-off any loan balance above 80% of fair market value, but that opens up more avenues for fraud and abuse on both sides of that equation.

But let's not knock altruism. After all, what is fiction for?

"If you think about it, if you don't put any money down and you pay a mortgage for 2 years before you lose the house, most look at it like they paid rent for 2 years and got some tax benefits in the interim."

Bear

That reminds me of a neighbor that went through one of the nonprofit counseling to qualify for the first time buyer where if she lived in the house for 10 yr she would get a grant for a 20% reduction in the original house. The nonprofit liked to use her as their poster child, as she had been homeless 2 yr, before.

The problem was the same nonprofit got a grant to buy and rehab houses in the neighborhood. They would then sell these houses to people that went through the program and line up financing for they.

A good idea, except they did a shoddy job of both rehabbing the houses and counseling the people.

So she ended up with more house than she could afford and had problems with it from day one.
she did have one piece of good luck.
she put it on the market at the right time and got out from under it. If she had waited 6 months I would have an empty house next door to me.

With her you realize that some people are never meant to be home owners. She later bought a condo where she doesn't have to worry about all the maintance. She is much happyer.

Jack

Pogo, I really think Ohio will surprise everyone, if they are expecting McCain to win....call it a feeling or whatever, Obama hasn't even turned the burners on here......and the visible excitement is out there for Obama

IMO - that Ohio polling ( i looked at the graph in the link you provided) reflects the Palin effect.....that will fade in time.....

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/oh/ohio_mccain_vs_obama-400.html#chart

Ed - "But let's not knock altruism. After all, what is fiction for?" LOL!!

ub, I hope you're right. I contend that this election will be won in OH, and the sound of "President McCain" strikes fear deep into my heart.

Currently Fiorina is a contributor for the Fox Business Network and a top economic advisor to Republican presidential candidate John McCain.

What do you expect from her?

I second that laugh @ EDvb, LOL Chaching!

Jamie,Pogo

tanks a lot, I knew that the parties had split around Pres. Tyler, 1840's or before in the general sense,you filled in a whole lot that I did not know.

Well, gotta scoot - LP has a soccer game with the evil empire crosstown rival Bridgeport and we have to be there early enough for him to get his skinny legs warmed up.

And Mr. Do Nothing, No-Nothing, (ET as in EMPTY SUIT) who never ran a business of any kind is, never balanced a budget, zero executive skills is? LMAO

Posted by: FryDaddy | September 15, 2008 3:09 PM

FryDud... I run a business now you dumbass. And I am an employer. What do you do beside repo cars?

oh yeah FryDud Mr. Sh*t for brains, I may not "No" nothing, but I KNOW to use the right use of "Know" when speaking of "KNOWledge." Perhaps you took Nancy Reagan too close to heart and now you live a life of "Just say NO-Ledge"

Richard Wright of Pink Floyd dead of cancer

http://www.comcast.net/articles/music/20080915/EU.Britain.Pink.Floyd/

Comfortably Numb

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkJNyQfAprY

Tom......LOL oh my good one. ;0)

KGC,

Thanks for the info. I'm betting that Fannie and Freddie's lobbying agenda was not ----- Protect the Borrowers.

It's bothersome that these quasi-government agencies even participate in lobbying efforts. Do you have any similar data on that other quasi-government agency, The Supreme Court?

Okay, okay, I was just kidding with that last question.

and the sound of "president palin"?
a cardiac malfarction, cerebral hemorrhage and a broken toe because i've kicked the tv when it was uttered.

Hi Sheila, I don't usually go on the attack like that, but this FD fellow is a total moron! Makes sense he is a repo-man, probably all the gas fumes are killing the brain cells. He is just a walking "talking points" parrot for his right wing goonies in the Repug party.

I run a business now... I have my own company and I am an employer.

What does he do? Takes cars back from poor people and then criticize them for supporting a candidate who would work to help the lower and middle classes.

Fry Daddy... no class, no tact, no redeemable qualities.

oh yeah... Obama/Biden 2008... To hell with the Repugs.

EdVB,

Perhaps lenders could be forced to write-off any loan balance above 80% of fair market value, but that opens up more avenues for fraud and abuse on both sides of that equation.

Had borrowers taken a conforming loan, they would have been paying a monthly premium for private mortgage insurance which would have covered lenders for that amount. This would insure a lender breaks even were they to foreclose.

Had the foreclosed upon home had an FHA or VA loan, the lender would get 100% reimbursement for their loan. That's one of the reasons these loans have better workout provisions should a borrower fall behind for legit reasons.

The only loans that leave the lenders in the lurch are the SUB PRIME loans which failed to do two important things to offset risk...

1. There wasn't any mortgage insurance to cover the lender in the event of a default. As a matter of fact, the purpose of the 80/20 or 80/15/5 or 80/10/10 is to circumvent PMI.

2. The loans were priced too low to offset the amount of risk being taken.

Let me explain...

In 2005 you could do one of the following. Assume that the sale price was $200,000 in all cases.

1. Conforming loan. Fixed Rate
Loan of $190,000 (95%), Down Payment $10,000
Rate 5.5%, P & I payment is $1,078, MI is $114
Total PI + MI = $1,192, Cash Needed $10,000

2. FHA Loan. Fixed Rate
Loan of $195,500 (97.75%) Cash Investment $4,500
Rate 5.875%, P & I payment is $1,173.80, MI $82.68
Total PI+MI= $1,256.48, Cash Needed $4,500

3. Subprime 100%, One Loan 2/28 ARM
Loan of $200,000, Down Payment $0
Rate of 6.5%, P & I payment is $1264.14
Total PI + MI = $1,264.14, Cash Needed $0

4. Subprime 80/20, 2 Loans...(2/28)/(30 yr Fix)
Loan $160,000, down payment $0
Rate 5.5% (2/28 ARM) P&I Payment $908.46, MI=0

Loan $40,000
Rate 7.5%, P&I payment is $279.69

Total PI + MI=$1,188.15

What is frightening is that people could qualify for option 4, but their credit wasn't good enough for the conforming loan.

A lot of people, something like 50%, of people who took out sub prime loans between 2004-2006 were Prime buyers looking to get out of making a down payment or who were stretching to buy a bigger house...

Which of those 4 payments looked best to you?

Go E.T ! ....like that fire - That's the kind of enthusiasm for Obama I am seeing in my parts of Ohio.....

It more than just another election to so so so many people!

Yo, Tom; chill. Fry was talking about Obama.

Don't blame "Repo-men", blame the banks that hire them.

Well if I misread I will apologize, but I want to stay emphatically I work my ASS off, just like anyone else. I am up at 5:30 every morning and I am not out of work til 2:30, then to the bank, then business papers to handle, be on call for my workers, have to make sure everything is ok...

And still... I am sick of all the whining about Obama. If people can really look back at the past 8 years and say to themselves "yeah my life is better today, than it was 8 years ago" then they should vote for McCain. 4 more years of the last 8. The names have changed but not the party or the policies. If people are satisfied with Bush, vote McCain... I am tired of hearing people piss and moan about how pissed off they are. I mean, I am pissed off that Hillary didn't win, but SO WHAT? She didn't have the most brilliant team members working for her... Patti Solis Doyle and that criminal Marc Penn... bum advice at a high price. I don't mean to disrespect anyone, but I am tired and sick of the whole discussion. There are wives and parents worried about their kids in Iraq and PRAYING that a Dem will get in so their loved ones can come home.... For them this is more than someone being angry or a theoretical discussion about policy differences. It is about their LIVES !! Our lives. I sure as hell am not going to support the party of the rich, which has basically destroyed this economy in the last 8 years, and ask for them to continue the mass redistribution of the wealth from the lower and middle classes to be given to the upper classes.

THAT'S NOT CHANGE... THAT'S REPUBLICANISM!

Enough from me, I need a break.

So wait, let me get this straight... someone buy something which they cannot afford; let's say a car, for instance, and then can't make the payments on a loan which they shouldn't have gotten in the first place... they should just be allowed to keep the car? Can I have a free car, too, then?

and Yes I blew my top... and sorry about that.

ET - you just said what so many people feel. Good for you , rest well.

Champ,

You can if your car is a share of Bear Sterns stock and you're on of the executives who incompetently ran the place into the ground.

Eh, you'd probably be a little flippant, too, if dodging bullets was an occupational hazard for you.

Don't let FryDaddy fool you...

Between his jobs as a repoman, I hear he's a fluffer too...lol

The irony, Jamie, is that some of the most vocal, enthusiastic Obama supporters won't even bother waking up on election day.

" A repossession agent towed away a car even after the loanee locked herself in it.... this incident landed in court ......the court decided that this was an unlawful breach of the peace and declared the repossession invalid.

The debtor was also awarded $1,200,000 in damages from the bank.

"

Bear

"You can if your car is a share of Bear Sterns stock and you're on of the executives who incompetently ran the place into the ground"

That is why I'm leaning toward bankrupcy court as a way to deal with many of these failures. It is what it is intended for. To many sweetheart deals in these thrown together over night arrangements.

Jack

omg....I have the whole office laughing, because I just asked what a "fluffer" is.

Way more than you ever really wanted to know, but after UB's remark, I had to look it up. Blush a bit along with me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluffer

"Fluffer" you mean its not Marshmellow?

lol.....I never even knew they existed...let alone what they were called..

"Fluffer" you mean its not Marshmellow?

Posted by: Chef Sheila | September 15, 2008 4:20 PM

ROFL!!!!!

HANNAH!!!! SO good to see you in non-lurking mode!

"The Hooker" (The Repo Man)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWYCeulheS8

Sheila, If we can continue to keep it calm and fun in here, we may drag all the folks who ran away back home.

I didn't realize whores worked in offices.

Boy would that be nice Jamie. A few skinned knees heal.

errr Champ would you like to rethink the way that sounds?

Pogo

looked at the Pollster map
Ohio is looking more and more like it is moving into the McCain column.

Playing with the national map it is starting to look like it is Colorado do or die, win it you get the presidency, lose it and you go home

Wonder what kind of voting machines they use?

Jack

Republicans are proud of being fluffers...
who can forget Laura Bush telling us Shrub is a horse fluffer

Republicans are proud of being fluffers...
who can forget Laura Bush telling us Shrub is a horse fluffer

Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | September 15, 2008 4:33 PM

Quickly Using Steel Wool to scour my eyes at that remark....... lol

Jamie,
I am sure it sounds exactly as intended.

Yippee! More fake money! Gee, I wonder why a candy bar is $1.69 and a gallon of gas is $5. Hmmmm...

Wall Street crisis could put Fed rate cut in play
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080915/ap_on_bi_ge/fed_interest_rates

KGC

For some reason I can't envision it.

Here is a dirty jobs clip on collecting horse semen

http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2005/hung-like-a-horse-p1.php

Jack

Hannah, I have to admit. I haven't been here lately either. I'm glad you were when I was!

I saw my in-laws down at the ranch over Easter. We like it down there. George didn't know much about ranches when we bought the place. Andover and Yale don't have a real strong ranching program. But I'm proud of George. He's learned a lot about ranching since that first year when he tried to milk the horse. What's worse, it was a male horse.
http://www.usatoday.com/life/people/2005-05-01-laura-bush-comments_x.htm

Laura the Entertainer

This program has a real potential to give an insightful look on how we build our military. From personal experience in two assignments, we tried to envision who our potential adversaries would be twenty years in the future, and why and how they would fight. We would build our military in response to this threat. We did computer simulations, directed by experts in the art of warfare, trying to develop the 'best' combination of people and materiel and tactics to prevail.

Why twenty years? That's about the lead time it takes to field a competent, fully armed force. Here's the PR that arrived this p.m.:

"HDNET'S "DAN RATHER REPORTS" TAKES A LOOK INSIDE THE PENTAGON'S FUTURE PLANS FOR WAR

Episode to investigate how decisions are made - and not questioned- within the walls of the Pentagon
DALLAS (September 15, 2008) - How does this country decide future war strategies? In this Tuesday's "Dan Rather Reports: Battle Plan" the program will shed some light on how the Pentagon is making decisions to prepare the United States to fight more wars like those in Iraq and Afghanistan - wars against counterinsurgency.

The Pentagon is internally debating and ultimately deciding what kind of armed forces America is to have in the future - and what kind of wars the nation will be most prepared to fight. The Pentagon brass believes that we will need to build up a big, "culturally sensitive" ground force meant to police cities and occupy foreign territories because that is what is "most likely" down the road.

Remarkably, few in government outside of the Pentagon are asking critical questions or even presenting alternative ideas.

Is the U.S. military focusing on preparation for a colonial-style power? If so, is this a good-or perhaps even necessary-way to go? And, concerning this, what are the wishes of the American people?

"Dan Rather Reports: Battle Plan" we'll take you inside the leading minds on the issue -- officers, infantrymen, and politicians - who feel passionately that how we re-shape our military is a do-or-die question for the future of the nation itself.

"Dan Rather Reports: Battle Plan" premieres on HDNet, Tuesday, September 16 at 8:00 p.m. ET with a re-air at 11:00 p.m. ET to accommodate West Coast Prime Time."

I found this oped an interesting read about my neck of the woods.

Despite her efforts to portray herself as an average, small-town, "folksy" American, Sarah Palin's political views - ardently pro-gun, pro-censorship, antichoice and antigay - make John McCain's conservative credentials pale in comparison.. . . . Many of us have forgotten the threat once posed by domestic terrorists and instead have turned our attention to foreign terrorists. But we should never forget that in the late 20th century, ultra-Christian, antistatist and white-supremacist groups flourished in the states of the Pacific Northwest - called by many the "Great White Northwest" - the very region that Sarah Palin and her family call home.

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/opinion/20080914_Intolerance_thrives_in_Palin_s_Pacific_Northwest.html

"Jamie,
I am sure it sounds exactly as intended."

He's normally more precise but no doubt where he was aiming.

Pakistan soldiers 'confront US'

"The incident comes amid growing anger in Pakistan over increasingly aggressive US attacks along the border."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7396366.stm

Notice things are slowing down. All the talk about fl*ff*rs must have started to generate extra hits from the porno folks.

Jack

From the link UB posted
"Pakistani paramilitary soldiers at a checkpoint opened fire into the air "

Who or what is a Pakistani paramilitary? And if they are not Pakistani troops why should we worry?

Jack

During this campaign I have heard a lot about sexism, and womens' rights and breaking the glass ceiling. What I have not heard too much about is how to help women that are seriously in need.

If you carry an American Express card you can help these women, just by voting for their project. Check out the top right link.

Women for Women International mobilizes women to change their lives through a holistic approach that addresses the unique needs of women in conflict and post-conflict environments.

http://www.womenforwomen.org/about-women-for-women/victims-to-survivors.php

I did not know assholes could type until the poster named champ showed up. he is such a classy fellow that champ. Fricken troll.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/the-american-dream-election.html#comment-145419

Oh Tom
Thanks.I know, I have heard it all before from some here,just get over it.Stop the whining,be a good Obama cheerleader !! Stop the discussion, just vote Obama............

Ah...hypocrisy. Gotta love it.

Why is it the vile and bile crowd always brings up someone's mother when they go on the rampage. Some Freudian parental issues is suspect.

This is the Gallup "Quick Read" on the election. They update it regularly as new polls are completed. It is a good "first stop" to get a daily feel for activity.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/109759/Gallups-Quick-Read-Election.aspx

Jamie,

I think a few of those points(Gallup) relate to the GOP not even flying the word Republican at their convention. I bet it starts creeping back in on their campaign literature. Hell Rossi doesn't list Rethug on his stuff.

Bowman....that's way past ironic.....that's simply astounding......mystifying......

I left out mind-boggling.......but Im wondering how his mother feels about kissing HIM on the mouth......lol

McCain is the master on phony outrage. He leaves you guys in the dust. lol

One phrase that we'll never hear this year is :

"Burdensome Government Regulation"

We've heard it from the right since 68' in every election, but this year I think it's time has passed.

"Gallup's annual Work and Education survey finds little change during the past several years in Americans' opinions about labor unions"

Hey.....I got enough phony outrage to fill the average grain silo......but actually, I'm not outraged......just an observer of the american scene......Outrage is a thing of the past........

sheila.......what does that mean in relation to all the blonde pictures I've seen of you?

Did anyone bother to look at this poll?

Gallup's annual Work and Education survey finds little change during the past several years in Americans' opinions about labor unions, with 60% of Americans now approving of unions.

This dramatic conclusion was based on TELEPHONE interviews with 1,019 people. WOW!

Thanks for setting me straight on that one

" What's great about this country is that America started the tradition where the richest consumers buy essentially the same things as the poorest. " -Andy Warhol

Hmmm......Sturg, I'm not blond. Sometime in my life I wished I was, but I am not and never have been. Must be either you impression of me or bad lighting ;0)

But thanks! My thoughts on the subject was just something I've noticed over the years. There tend to be more blond women on TV for the Republicans.. That is all. What do you make of it?

I think it's goofy to color one's hair.

Hey Sturg, Go over to Baby Blog and Look at my avatar. I have red highlights in my hair. ;0)

" go off like a Roman candle"

Bowman, I for one would never suggest it. But there is something to say about preference here. When I was in the B41 White House it was the same way. Too many ladies with blond hair with shoulder length bob's

Hey Shelia....that's better than clear hair.
: )

Ahh but UB, the Polar Bears are so gorgeous. I magine being able to reflect sunlight.

So a few months ago there were many post about drafting Al Gore for the democratic ticket. What the hell happened to Al? The guy has less press than John Edwards. It sure looks like Obama wants nothing to do with him. Where are all the democratic heavy hitters these days?

Have they detected a taint on the Obama express? Are they distancing themselves or have they been asked to stand back? Craig, do you have any insight on this? Even Biden has no coverage, unless he utters one of his trademarks sound bites. No wonder there is a strident tone coming from the democratic camp.

" blond hair with shoulder length bob's " add pearls , and a monochrome suit , a flag pin........don't forget, if you are serious, a modest heel pump.....but not a flat.....

It an unspoken uniform from what I have observed....

I do Bowmanc,

you will start seeing the heavy hitters from now and getting harder and harder as the month wears along.

Especially after the first debate. Hillary is on Ohio today. Bill clinton will come out for an eleventh hout Blitz. A run to the finish where he and Obama go out to the Toss up states together

In politics the closer to the election, the more people pay attention.

I saw Hill baby yesterday, she was wearing a bright pink suit....
no PUMA protesting in Ohio....not a one.....everyone was on board with the Obama/ Biden ticket.

You must miss Patsi and need a new target.

Five hundred and four points.......and it's not over...

wasn't it our dear departed Ronald Reagan that started the de-regulation craze? He was a Republican right? enough said.

Posted by: Torpedo.Vindecator | September 15, 2008 1:43
----------
TV .... YES, you are right .... Reagan was the one who started taking them away ... I can still remember hearing/reading about it & thought " OH SHIT!" we have these useless Review Boards over our G&E,water, cable,etc, that have NO POWER to really stop their increases .... BUT, you won't hear anyone in the news say anything against Reagan .. i think he was a horrible Pres, but you saw all the lies they spoke when he died ..
viv

" How can I miss you, if you never go away? "

-someone whose name I can't remember

Hi Viv! Good to see you tonight!

we thought y'all went away. -sigh-

WOW! "If we are going to end up with another great depression, I think Phill Grahm would do it" What a slam.......

"only about one in three say they would like to see labor unions have more influence."

Overall, these results show that 9% of Americans are personally members of a labor union. Another 7% have a spouse or other household members who belong to a union

"What are you suggesting? It sounds like a "dumb blond" thing. Isn't that typecasting prohibited? "

No Bowman

It's just a style statement. The aging everything lifted but the toes aging wives are rich bitch pale blond and the second and third wives are fluffy lemon tarts.

They come in a pack--like hyenas

Just an aside to Sheila. That's one of the problems with McCaskill. That shade of blond has never ever appeared on anyone's head naturally.

read the link,

How dare you actually go beyond the headline, that's not fair. You aren't supposed to actually analyze the information, leave that to the "experts" that write the headlines.

Well.....Jamie.......Very Katty.....but so funny!

Now it comes down to the shade of someones hair. So much for issues.

Karl Rove calling McCain campaign out for lying in their adds? Now that is weird Bowmanc.

Well....my lipstick is pink.....

" shade of blond has never ever appeared on anyone's head naturally "

Jamie, I know exactly what your saying.....sometimes the colors make me stop in my tracks.....that's only in between hooking.

Bowmanc

You've got to admit the intellectual quality of the BC posters make an impression

Jack

Well now I can rest. Politico is very blunt and when they actually say it, you know its a good day for the Obama Campaign.

crap thrown at wet cement makes an impression

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/the-american-dream-election.html#comment-145545

Bowman,

Everyone on the face of the earth wears a uniform. How you are dressed says a great deal about you and those with whom you associate. Republicans tend to be somewhat more conformist than Democrats.

As with any generalization, there are exceptions but yes the blond with suit, silk blouse, pearls, patriotic pin and low pumps is sort of the standard Republican woman uniform.

that should read "you know"

Today of all days, I just saw Tucker Bounds defending 8 years of Bush and the republican way of doing business. I mean, Tucker Bounds was trying valiantly, but it just wasn't working this time.

Cry WOLF WOLF!!!

Jamie speak the truth and when you have a Texas in the White House that uniform is more apparent

Hey when I was a kid my mother was a platinum blond, artificial hair color never phased me. At my older brother's bar mitva my mother's hair was piled several stories high, and no shit she had grape vines threaded through it all, her aunt upon seeing her said "what Barbara no doves?". My dad spit his drink half way across the room.

jesus, spare us the details

re: dress of female republican ....and if you are wearing high pumps (around republicans) , there is a chance they might mistake you for a call-girl.....or as champ likes to say a "whore."

Chick Tood for MTP!

That's funny sock-eye...sounds very possible for a certain time....was it early 60s?

Was that the same year that Sarah Palin was born? what are the chances???? lol

That wasn't sordid....how dramatic you are sock. A cute tale of Americana

Don't you guys have your own little virtual street-corner to pollute?

when one of your pet goobers posts about blonde hair republicans and then you post about piled up hair with grape vines.........yes.........sordid is the word.

I think if you start looking at W and Bazaar you may see that bee-hives and grapes are making a big come back -

Same year Obama hatched

lol..MSM " grow a pair or I will give you mine..."

Well Champ,

I'm here to tell ya that except for a brief absence, I've been here a long long time. So I will jump here and there and always come for a time. This time maybe home for good. ;0)

Good to see you again.

Hi Sheila,
Not sure how long I'll be able to sit here, the rain is killing me today .. groan

But, at least I've got a house to sit with my heating/ massage pad ... ALL the destruction is horrible .. so sorry for everyone who lost their homes ..

Ours Electric kept flickering yesterday, went out once, but only for less than a minute .. but the wind!! OMG! my bedroom is on the second floor & I could feel it making the house sway ... I looked out back & all kinds of things from peoples yard were flying around & our fence was swaying too .. My Son's power was out for almost 4 hours & his house is completely electric .. he said the trees down were bad over there too ...

On the way to the doctors this monring, we kept having to back up & go another way .. alot of the streets up here are lined with trees & a lot down

"Gov. Beshear: 550,000 Were Without Power
Last Update: 2:03 pm

LOUISVILLE, Ky. (AP) - Gov. Steve Beshear says that more than a half-million Kentuckians have been without power due to high winds from the remnants of Hurricane Ike that hit the state Sunday.

That was at the peak of the outages last night.

The governor called it the biggest outage on record in Kentucky. The storms downed trees and power lines as winds reaching up to 70 miles per hour pounded the state. Many schools were closed Monday because of the lack of electricity.

Beshear says 90 percent of Duke Energy's customers in northern Kentucky were without power Sunday night.

He said damage from the winds were reported in half of the state's 120 counties. "

http://www.kypost.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=fb98b987-65dc-4d55-b0e5-4cfba95945b5

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/the-american-dream-election.html#comment-145479

LOL
the last intellegent comment.
6:40

2.5 hrs of drivel

LOL

Be Proud

Oh Viv. So glad to hear you are all right. For heaven sakes, don't over do it. Your back is a very important and hard to heal part of your body. careful careful.

Palin will not cooperated in trooper-gate investigation?....that's odd......I wonder why?

She knows she's running for president , I mean VP, doesn't she know how bad this looks?

Champ you could join in on sime conversation....maybe? Try it, you might like it. ;0)

Hey UB.....The Troopergate guy, Monnegan? is going to be on Rachell tonight.

Robert Reich, My hero on Rachell

champ......they have their own street corner.....they want that corner and Craig's corner too. small wonder.

so it's tomorrow for me and may they all find fleas in their underwear. Big fleas.

Thank You

Viv !!!!!

an intellegent post,

At last.

Thank You

Thank You

Thank You

Gee thanks, Sheila, though given a choice between the two, I think I'd rather gouge my eyes out with a melon-baller! ;^P

Sheila,

It didn't help that I fell last week & jarred my whole system .... Doc said it will take awhile for to get over it, but he's wrong .... Since I won my SSDi last Oct, it seems like my body has decided to fall apart some more since I've got insurance now, lol ... the arthritis is moving into areas I never had pain before ...

I'm also a diabetic & it's up, along with my blood pressure & my weight ... told him have had a lot of stress .. one being my younger sister OD on her meds3 weeks ago tomorrow & it was touch & go for about 8 hours .. they finally got her stable & she's now home ... thing is, not the first time & I know it won't be the last ... she needs someone to livw with her, since she kicked her Hubby out 2 months ago ... sad & selfish on her part .. imho ...

viv

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGOohBytKTU

A little entertainment while we wait for LOL to contribute something he/she thinks is intelligent...after all this is an open venue....no one is holding you back

LOL Champ! Try Steel Wool. I find envigorating. ;0)

Shelia, thanks for the heads up, I have Rachael on now...this should be interesting....it may really work against Miss Sarah.

Sarah promised, ouch then she changed...not good.

Thank You

Viv !!!!!

an intellegent post,

At last.

Thank You

Thank You

Thank You

Posted by: LOL | September 15, 2008 9:11 PM
--------
LOL ... hmmmm, there's been a lot of good post .. lol .. but thank you, will take any compliments thrown at me, hehehe

viv

Viv, sounds like you need vitamin suppliments too. When Diabetes and weight gain are giving you a run for your money and causing more injury than you would normally have, try a really good multi, vitamin E, calcium, and a large amount of grap seed. Like 250mg.

Usually when there is what looks like a cascade effect happening, your body is in need of more nutrients than our Older bodies can pull in. I am. have been for a while and even though its slow to show progress, it really does help, when you look back in a few months.

good luck and I certainly hope you feel better soon.

Fry D

Do you know any good down the middle( moderate) Republican blogs,I want to see how they would try to convince me to join up with them.

LOL

quote of the day

"If we're going to ask questions about, you know, who has been promulgating negative ads that are completely unrelated to the issues at hand, I think I win that contest pretty handily," Obama said
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=5803765&page=1

true
LOL

Sturg, We used a to have a nice time in conversation. To bad. have a good evening.

I believe Monnegan is going to be on all the Network News for the next week...maybe even one of the Sunday Talk shows. I think its growing legs

Hi Sturg

Im not I just wanted to let them know that like Big C said, a lot of us are watching, but I will make up my mind tonight.and let you know in a.m.

solar.....i mean, maybe i got in a shot.....it's not like it matters.......

Next Rachell segment, When Karl Rove decides a campaign's adds are too over the top, there is something wrong with the campaign. Good segway to commercial

Viv, sorry to hear about your troubles, hopefully the stress will subside some in the days to come....take it one day at a time, hope things get better for you ...take care.

ever try yoga ? it can be helpful for both stress and pain relief....just a thought.

"Do you know any good down the middle( moderate) Republican blogs"

http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/the-american-dream-election.html#comment-145580

That was a kind of California bohemian look. Leotard and tights, Peasant Skirt or Big Shirt, flats or ballet slippers, pull hair back in low on the neck pony tail

From nude to fully dressed in under two minutes. :-)

" I thought this was a middle of the road republican blog? "

and I thought it was just an open blog for many opinions....lol...like a little bit of everything was okay....

Viv!....Your the woman. I'm glad you are taking those. Yes, Grape seed is a wonderful addition to my daily intake. Its a power antioxident and aids in building new cells which are so hard to build at our "Seasoned" time of life. It has really aided me, ALONG with CO Q10 in building healthy cells. After I had cancer.

Then I noticed that my allergies were lessened and sensitivities to sertain allergens began to recede also. Then I found that my Tcells (Thyroid) became more normal... Then my disbetes began to subside because I began to lose weight in a more normal manner. and there you have it. I don't take pills anymore. the WHolistic Doc that helped me made me understand that a lot can be solved before its too late with proper feeding of the cells in our body.

Good luck girl!

UB ...
My daughter has several yoga tapes that I don't evn think she's looked at .. they're just sitting in my cabinet gathering dust, lol ... I'll see which one might help .. afrter I get over this last fall, that is, lol

Now, I do stretching exercises several times a day ... it does help my pain & lift my spirirts .... it keeps me limber, which I think confused a lot of the Doctors I saw in the first 2 years .. they thought I must not be as in pain as I said, because for one, am limber & 2, I wasn't in there crying like some crazy person .. but, I had very active jobs all my life ... really never had a sit down kind of job ...

yep, kept going to one Doc after another to get help, but in the end .. most of their treaments didn't help & the drugs, well .. am allergic to A LOT of the good stuff .. so, now beside the Vitiamins & exercising, am looking into alturnative ways ...

thanks everyone for all the kindness & information .. think I'm going to get off here & prop my legs .. can't wait until I get another desk, so I'll have some room to prop my legs .. then, I might be able to be on here for hours!! lol

take it easy everyone ... night ....

Vivian

Yoga is basically stretching, and balancing evenly, and calming the mind...good luck.

Night VIV!

So Sarah just comes out and says "NO I am not going to cooperate with the investigation" .....sounds like GWBush in a skirt.

u. burrito: Tomorrow AIG goes down, also....

Hey Dex how are you? AIG, I think you are correct on that.....how many point will the dow drop tomorrow?

410?

"sounds like GWBush in a skirt."

That's what these Rethugs and McCain sympathizers want for another 8 years

Burrito,

yes, putting a town of 7,000 in debt for 22 million....thats another likeness. Cronyism before qualificiations. what else...... Folkies out weighs intelligent.....charactor assination when you don't agree.

http://www.declareyourself.com/

New register to vote campaign for young people.

Time for me quit for the night folks. It been fun. See ya'll tomorrow!

Hey Shelia - great to see you back....don't stay away so long next time.. : )

Well I guess when McCain blatantly lies to the extreme that Rove is tossing him under the bus, it become news.

All Tied in Pennsylvania: Obama 47% McCain 47%

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/pennsylvania/election_2008_pennsylvania_presidential_election2

jut had to see some CNN....Halperin is taking down McCain? That is unusual.

I think, as you have seen in the ads, Obama is going to take this negative-blatant-lie politics to the people at the debates....it's going to great, because once you lie once, who can ever trust you...

BUSH lied people died

McLie = Bush

Hey LOL,
What is your opinion of McCain lying in his ads? AND getting caught?

Back to Legally Blond. ;0)

"All Tied in Pennsylvania: Obama 47% McCain 47%"

1) Rasmussen has a rep as right leaning. I believe Quinnipiac and SV have it Obama in lead; but more importantly

2) elections are 50 days and 4 debates away so as an Obama voter I'm not fretting too much.

As much as I hate it that the DOW tanked today, i think it was the slap in the face that voters needed to get people of fthe lipstick debate and on to important issues.

re: polls

we have zero land lines - we got rid of it after it didn't work for a month and they fixed it and it failed the next day....

Telecoms - the line line companies are going down, no one needs them.

"Democrats for the most part are shades of Brunette."

Sheila, I forgot to tell you, you will not get any agruments from me. :-)

Him and HER avoiding them won't engender any goodwill either.

arguments. . typo

Rez,
tomorrow isn't going to be pretty either, at least that's my guess.....I too - think it's about time that those rich sob's , some I am related to, quit making money shilling off the system....their greed pushed it way too far.

"Telecoms - the line line companies are going down, no one needs them."

I think that and the million new voter registrations make all polls suspect.

UB,

As long as folks have enough and keep patronizing their local casinos. LOL

it was supposed to say LAND lines...lol
I agree Rez

Hey Rez - I was going to ask you if you gamble?

Poor Joe B. I love em and can identify with him cause I'm capable of doing some stupid stuff (gaffes).

I guess today he got carried away at a rally and asked some poor guy to stand up and be recognized. Problem was he was in a wheelchair. rofl. He's harmless

UB,

I play Blackjack all the time. Too much as DW would say.

"Crazy Mary" from Bonanza -

I thought about "Crazy Mary" from Bonanza tonight watching a young woman studying " statistics " , ( so she could get a degree in fashion. ) This all took place in Tom"s Daiquiri Bar.

Mary had hair the color of Krusty the Clown's, but then there were brown roots, and then gray roots. She had been alone so long, that when we showed up, it must have been religious experience for her. It explains why she took off the stove plate off the stove to make coffee , and held it there, as the smoke boiled into her cabin. And she talked and talked .
Spend some time alone , and see if you don't talk and talk.

I sat there waiting for her coffee, watching the smoke come down from her ceiling . Knowing that it was a window to the past .... to a world that I would never know. To a world that had built mine.

LMAO...that is so Joe!!!....my Husband can be like that too, the nicest guy in the world, but sometimes just says the wrong things.....it keeps him real

I love Joe Biden....oh I mean my husband...lmao

UB, Did a mention there are three Indian casinos within a half hour drive of me :) Dangerous

ever play on-line...like Poker Stars?

I used to play black jack a long time ago, then we relocated away from casinos....

when I was 4.3 hours away from Vegas it was dangerous, I don't know how you can do it....I was younger then...and reality didn't exist

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ziGoJBLnRA

Crazy Mary

Oh darn. Now I'm going to have to stay up. ;0)

What a football game!

Why Obama?

Because he is intelligent and forward-thinking. He has shown correct judgment on the major issues such as:

IRAQ:

-In 2002, Obama said that the Iraq War was "an ill-conceived venture which would require a U.S. occupation of undetermined length, at undermined cost, with undetermined consequences."

IRAN:

-Five former U.S. secretaries of state* have urged the next presidential administration to open a dialogue with Iran.

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/03/28/america/Secretaries-Advice.php

*Colin Powell, Henry Kissinger, James Baker III, Warren Christopher and Madeleine Albright.

(While McCain has "joked" - "Bomb bomb bomb Iran." And if you need more evidence Obama is right - compare the situation in N. Korea - which improved after Bush finally agreed to engage - and the situation in Iran).

MORTGAGE CRISIS:

-March 27, 2008:

"Obama laid out six different areas where he would stiffen regulations of the financial system. He proposed relief for homeowners and the long-term unemployed as part of an additional $30 billion stimulus package, much like the one Clinton offered last week.

He said outdated government regulations have fallen dangerously behind the realities of modern finance."

http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2008Mar27/0,4670,DemocratsEconomy,00.html

THE NEXT PRESIDENT:

-For two years, Obama has based his campaign on the idea of bringing change to Washington. John McCain has run on the message of reform for about two weeks. (Prior to that - he ran on "decades of experience in Washington")

Obama continues to provide complex solutions to the complex problems facing our Country. Quick and easy solutions may play well on the campaign trail - but after 8 years of Bush - wouldn't the White House benefit from a thoughtful and pragmatic politician like Obama.

UB, no online gambling. Isn't that illegal? :-) I just play $5 tables and stick to a loss limit. I win some lose some. It's relaxing to me. if I played big money it'd be stressful. We enjoy eating out at their properties especially using my comps.

I see McCain accusing Obama of being behind Troopergate. Yeah right, all that started months ago before she came into the picture.

This is like being in the twilight zone.

no Rez it's not illegal.....play with real money or just chips at pokerstars dot com

they don't have black jack...and maybe I shouldn't have told you ...lollolol....i haven't been playing for a while due to a bad streak.

" the fundamentals of our economy is strong" -2008 McCain

I do think this may be the quote that sinks McCain......this could be his Dukakis moment.

is = are

Colbert is hilarious....

I like the transition scene when they lose it.....the tiger cubs..."Ike and Tina"

West coasters...luxury of having shows reviewed for them.....by east coasters

That has always been an issue about american businesses......the quarter, meet the street or beat the street....forget the future......

I will not go any further....lol but Shelia has to pay attention.....to the show so she doesn't miss anything. : )

I know he is nothing but a crackpot but is Alan Keyes really running for president? There is this billboard here in Missouri that I keep passing that was put up a few months ago that reads "Alan Keyes for President" and has his web sight alankeyes.com under it. I Went over there out of curiosity and sure enough he was asking for money. I haven't heard any affiliation for him, or a single mention of him in the press.

Is it possible to run for president just to make money off of it?

I'm sure that's right. Just wondering.

Speaking of Obots. This is the real deal.

The Palin Doctrine: Why the Neocons Are So Excited

Of course, the place her neocon mentors hope she's going is the White House. Given their dismal track record, they're smart enough to figure that the American public wouldn't be too keen on letting them in the front door again,. .
. . so they are trying to sneak in hidden behind Palin's skirt.
. . The Trojan Moose approaches.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/the-palin-doctrine-why-th_b_126511.html

On top of that, Palin's a tax cheat!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/08/AR2008090803088.html

Is it possible to run for president just to make money off of it?

Posted by: truebeliever Author Profile Page | September 15, 2008 11:57 PM

Well...why the hell do you think they do it?! Civil Service?! You have any ideal how much money a former President makes in speaking fees and "consultant" positions? They make a mint! Then they shift policy to favor their friends in business and industry, of course for a nice kickback eventually. To top it all off, they get average working-class suckers to finance their campaigns, to the tune of more than a billion dollars this year alone! What a scam! Wish I thought of it...

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