Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

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where is everybody? od on debate party? oh ye slug-a-beds, shame!

If people are still sleeping they are wasting their lives :)

craig, thanks for the recaps. as always, yours strikes true to the heart.... the spectre of "it's his to lose"

good morning, sturge. fair meet the day?

and a beautiful day to you too, et.

'tis most beautiful autumnal air outside in caroline......

Just in case you missed this at the end of the last thread :

mccain is fretting over $18 Billion in earmarks, but doesn't say a word about the nationalization of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae with debts of $9 TR!LL!ON. It's like making a fuss over a dime and while happily flushing five bucks down the john. Penny wise and just plain foolish.

republicans lost Viet Nam, and blew Lebanon Fiasco and Gulf Fiasco I. They engineered the Somalia Fiasco. republicans engineered the S & L crisis that cost $4 TR!LLION. They engineered the ENRON, WorldCom, and Tyco implosions. republicans engineered the failure of Bear Stearns, Fannie & Freddie, Lehman Bros, AIG, and WaMu with a total cost of about $10TR!LL!ON. The cost of our loss in Gulf Fiasco II will be another $4TR!LL!ON including taking care of all the soldiers w/head injuries for the rest of their lives. And, in Afghanstan, they are losing to the rats who caused 9/11. Total : 6 failed military adventures w/43,000 dead, plus $18 TR!LL!ON in debts ($60,000 for each man, woman, and child in America or $240,000 for a family of 4).

Obviously if we want more military defeats, and more financial disasters, we should vote for mccain and the republicans.

Throw all the bums out.

Obama could have picked up on mccain's references to republican corruption. That would have been nice.

He could also have mentioned that republicans have not won a war since 1898, and that America doesn't need any more republican experiences like that Lebanon Fiasco cited by mccain. 284 Marines were killed in Beirut as mccain said. But, he didn't say it was because the idiots let Lebanese guard the perimeter. Congress should have impeached Wineberger for that. F. X. Kelly should have been court martialed. We were supposed to have learned the importance of perimeters in the Battle of the Wabash, when General Little Turtle thwumped George Washington's pal, General St. Clair killing nearly1,000 American soldiers - worse than Cuser's last Stand. Idiots.

Man, am I grumpy.

Throw the bums out.

I liked what McCain said about conflict of interest in Congress. That those heading commitees couldn't have certain connections. It was a surprise to me the big connections that Frank and Dodd had with financial institutions. No wonder we didn't get any warnings.

In the debate, I was somewhat put-off by Mr Obama's constant references to "John" rather than Sen McCain, or even, my opponent. It was a formal setting and he was debating someone old enough to be his father; just poor manners IMO.

Craig,
You are back on the top of the grading hill! (which means balanced reporting and I agree)

Obama did not hurt himself, did well without the prompter and style points wins the early results. Weak on the facts in many areas and clear pandering in the CHANGE on his positions.

McCain will keep the advantage after the dust settles and the facts are checked and the messaging in the debate settles.

So end result Obama closes in on the issue of his lack of leadership in international affairs – but not enough to swing votes based on this element

Morning to all...
Flatus - thanks and good point, I watched some of the MSMoBamaC Network and for some reason Chris was more concerned with talking about McCain not looking at Sen Obama. He spent more time on trying to get this talked about then something of core substance.

So that is why I turn to MSNoBamaC as it puts me to sleep - such BS

I was surprised by Mr Lehrer's trying to get the protagonists to address each other directly. Most times moderators try really hard to get the debaters to address the audience or the chair.

The talking to each other might work in a table-top type of setting, but not like it was laid out last night.

I was a little put off by McCain's refusal to to use the more familiar "Barack" when referring to his opponent -- and also refusing to even look at him when addressing him. I think I even heard McCain muttering "horseshit" while Obama was talking. McCain might as well have said Senator Barack Hussein Obama as stiff and formal as he was acting. McCain referred to the moderator by his first name -- so singling Obama out for the "frozen formal" treatment was a bit rude.

Sen Obama is a gifted trained orator - and very agile compared to the war scars born by Sen McCain.

Mathews find some hard balls and bring some substance and value – you do not make the ge (good enough) standards with the performances

I thought John McCain did a lot of pandering. He grapped a point against Obama and slammed it over and over again.i.e - Obama with the earmarks and Obama with meeting foreign leaders without discretion. He "showboated" his POW - gosh - how many times -- I lost count. McCain was all drama and hardly any substance. But voters like that I guess. That is his tactic and why he is doing it. Look for more ot it from Palin next. Question: If most voters have made up their minds by this time, are these debates very effective for changing some?

"McCain might as well have said Senator Barack Hussein Obama as stiff and formal as he was acting. McCain referred to the moderator by his first name -- so singling Obama out for the "frozen formal" treatment was a bit rude." Alicia@7:55

We sure reacted as polar opposites on this one.

I'll make one more stab at it. Mr Lehrer and Sen McCain are of the same generation and probably have a long established relationship. For me, his referring to Mr Lehrer as "Jim" didn't cause a reaction.

I would have reacted very negatively if I sensed a B_H_O nuance in Mr McCain's words or demeanor. I didn't have that kind of reaction.

Is the bad weather we had down here headed in your direction?

Ha.......beady-eye scarbro saying they made Obama "look darker" last night.......that's weird, and then he says it's something that "millions of americans noticed last night."

anyone here notice that the Obe looked "darker" last night as beady-eye suggested? I didnt.

ha ha ..............."Honest Obe"

I thought "orgy of spending" was the big zinger last night, by the way.........an apt description

Sturg,,
Who is "They" that made Obama "look darker"
If darker maybe it relates to Obama learning more of the evil world and that he can not wear rose color glasses as Pres. - Obama is moving on - maybe some call that realtiy the dark side????

Ping.......it was scarbro's suggestion......and he didnt say whom "they" were......and questioned whether it was the lighting, make-up, etc......a very weird observation in my estimation.....but he claimed it was substantiated by scads of e-mails and phone calls, etc........

After watching the debate, it appeared to me that Obama was such the stronger debater. He appealed significantly to middle class voters when talking about the economy, while McCain looked clueless on the issue.

Where as McCain is stronger on foreign policy than Obama, at least Obama seemed to be highly intelligent on the topic. Watching McCain talk about the economy was embarrassing.

Also, McCain seemed to show no difference in his view on the current economic bailout than Obama, which should significantly hurt him with his base of conservative voters.

I do find it interesting that the media seems to be taking a soft tone on declaring Obama the winner of the debate, though. They seem not to want to overly show their bias towards Obama, yet from my point of view, Obama crushed McCain this round.

Good morning all. It's 5:22 on the west coast and I've been up for an hour ... Slug A Bed my eye!!!

Sturgeone, I didn't mention it last night since it is trivial, but Obama's makeup was a little off. He had one cheek "rosier" than the other and just didn't look quite natural. There is a technique to working with darker skin tones and last night did miss.

Now about the debate. I was really bothered by McCain's clenched fists and staring straight ahead rather than at Obama. I can understand saying the debate felt different by those who heard rather than saw the debate, but watching it I would give the win to Obama. He was too cool; too reserved and missed a chance to appear warmer and more forceful, but he didn't lose.

Let's see what the next debate brings.

I thought that that passage where Obama was rolling out " and you were wrong" was the place where he should have gotten on a roll and buried mccain beneath a barrage of facts mccain was wrong about......it still came off well for obama, but it was the place where he really could have mounted a very pointed roll of wrongs which Mac has been a part of but it kind of limped up to the last line and fell over.....it woulda beena goodern. Next debate, I bet he gets ahold of that........

Here is the CNN poll on the debate

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/27/debate.poll/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

Here is some of the UK reaction to the debate including an article on how UK banks will benefit for the bailout.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article4835590.ece

Jamie, the skin tones. I would think he would bring his own makeup person. Having something as easily solved as this interfering with his message is not good.

S.E.C. Concedes Oversight Flaws Fueled Collapse

By STEPHEN LABATON
Published: September 26, 2008

WASHINGTON — The chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission, a longtime proponent of deregulation, acknowledged on Friday that failures in a voluntary supervision program for Wall Street’s largest investment banks had contributed to the global financial crisis, and he abruptly shut the program down.

McCain wants to fire him (if he were Japanese Cox would have quite in disgrace)

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/27/business/27sec.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

It was something which scarbro made a big deal of this morning......my point is not obama's look (since I in no way noticed it), but rather scarbro's making a big deal of it.........

Dog, such things don't bother me, either. But if it is a detractor for others, it should be addressed. I think someone, perhaps Jamie, mentioned the problem a while back.

Obama's Economic Experience? According to Malkin's blog McCain is won the Debate by 78% of those polled.

Burning Down the House, What caused the Economic Crisis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5tZc8oH--o

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/obama-wins-debate-by-barely-lo.html#comment-151451

Flatus,

It could have been camera angle or change in lighting as well. As I said, trivial. People distracted by it are bored or mystified with the debate which is a much more substantial problem. Now whether it is Obama's problem or Scarborough's problem is up for discussion. :-)

No one is talking about the fact that McCain really seemed to start losing it toward the end of the debate. He went through 3/4 of the proceedings making his points. Whether you agreed or disagreed, he did well.

Towards the end Granpa Cranky Pants was really coming through and with Palin as a back up that is downright scary.

All those times Obama said Mcain was right about something. A sign of weakness? Or does he just respect the Republican's opinion that much.

He did the same thing with Hillary. It makes his debating job a lot easier. Take credit for what my opponent said but improve on it with this.

Obama said Mcain was right about something. A sign of weakness? Or does he just respect the Republican's opinion that much.

Nah he was just modeling George W Bush in his first presidential debate

http://snltranscripts.jt.org/00/00adebate.phtml

As a debate technique, agreement doesn't work well to mention your opponents name. It may be courteous, but to the listener it sounds like "You're right John".

Obama needs to drop about half of the introductory phrases. They make for a nice smooth speech or writing paragraph. In a debate, he needs punchier, more direct statements. Sort of the difference between:

I perceive that objects are descending and may disturb those on the ground so that movement is the correct action to take.

and

Duck!

"Ha.......beady-eye scarbro saying they made Obama "look darker" last night....."

I remember only thinking that McCain didn't look as pale as usual, and decided it was the light or makeup and forgot about it.

If anyone is feeling studious, here is a background article on the Resolution Trust that was used to resolve the S & L Crises of the 1980s

http://www.fdic.gov/bank/analytical/banking/2005jul/article2.pdf

This is a great collection of what many different sources are saying about the debate with links to the sources. A good sampling of opinions.

Editorial Round Up on the Debate
http://time-blog.com/real_clear_politics/2008/09/editorial_round_up_on_the_deba.html

Of all those editorials, I thought this one summed it up well (and right to the point).

The Jackson Clarion-Ledger says each candidate won in their own respective ways:

" If the debate were judged on experience, McCain won hands down. If judged on "a broader vision" that departs from past mistakes, Obama won handily."

"Americans have a clear choice."

http://www.roseanneworld.com/blog/2008/09/

Thanks for posting that link, Chloe. I agree with the St Pete Time's conclusions (one of their better editorials when Mr McCain is one of the subjects):
"There was no clear winner in the first debate — and no clear acknowledgment of the challenges now facing the country."

Style Points - Obama wins
Most changed - Obama wins
Most lose use with the facts - Obama wins
Most looking at the other - Obama wins
Most spin in his favor after the debate - Obama wins
Best for our safety and understanding of the World - McCain wins

Dropping by on a Saturday a.m. (due to Tony's email yesterday) with my thoughts on this debate.

1. The McCain "Debate Postponement" debacle. Complete BS. Not on McCain's part, but on the media's part. A few days before McCain held that press conference, my sister (who has a LOT at stake in the market) was listening to back-to-back reports of Great Depression talk, and the Great Presidential Debate on foreign affairs. My sister said, "I'm not sure I want to hear these guys talk about foreign affairs when the economy is tanking. I wish to hell they would go back to DC and try to help fix it."

And I agreed. Then McCain (certainly not my candidate) announced that was what he was doing, and the press nearly ate him alive. Why? Because ratings and dollars are attached to debates.

2. And so we have this grand debate because it is obviously so much more crucial than taking care of business. And it's a complete snoozefest. Nobody said anything substantial. NO big ideas on the economy or foreign relations or anything else.

McCain repeated all his talking points, as did Obama. McCain is still a hawk, and Obama still thinks the Afghanistan bait & switch will make him look strong. We can win over there? Tell it to the Soviets.

Meanwhile the economy is rotting. The infrastructure is crumbling. A few market fatcats are buying vacation homes on stockholders lost money. And in true MSM tradition, the big issues are whether McCain looked directly at Obama and whether Obama should have called McCain "Senator" instead of "John."

Obama was right about one thing. It's surely the silly season. Well, back to work. My big sister is the same slavedriver she was when I was twelve!

Cogent points, Patsi, to which I concur.

Paul Newman dead at 83

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/newmans-own-foundation-celebrates-life/story.aspx?guid=%7BBEF7379C-9CDF-4B85-AFDA-B4A9E5FDFCEC%7D&dist=hppr

Patsi--
A good morning tip of the hat to you. I've missed you.

And thanks to Tony for getting back Patsi for a comment.
We need them both.

I'm sorry to hear about Paul Newman.
One of my favorites.

Good morning Patsi

Bush on radio address right now. Amazingly, he is now in favor of oversight ...

"Which way did they go. I am their leader."

The view from Northern California

On the issues, Bosco said he was disappointed that both candidates stated their support for offshore oil drilling, an issue that resonates on the North Coast.

"I think the danger signal has gone up," Bosco said.
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20080927/NEWS/809270387/1350?Title=Debate_didn_t_seem_to_change_many_minds

After last nights debate Team BHO claimed that all of McCain talked about were is past accomplishments.
However BHO only talked about what JM did, and so that was also in the past. BHO did something the opposing candidate should never do in a debate, on 8 different occasions BHO agreed with JM's statements. And for being such a wiz on economics you would think BHO would have pummeled JM, but that is not what occurred.

BHO sent his time paying basketball, he should have spent some time learning how to box. When a taller fighter, with longer goes up against a shorter fighter who has a more power punch, you do not want to let him get inside, you want to keep him at arm length and tier him out. BHO let JM step inside and JM just kept throwing punches. It wasn't a KO, but it was a TKO. Winner by unanimous decision Johnny "Skyhawk" McCain.

Ken Norton Vs. Ernie "The Acorn" Shavers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUWy4FtdpwI

Some boxing trivia.

After their September 29, 1977 bout, Ali later said of Shavers was the hardest puncher he ever faced, famously
stating, "Ernie hit me so hard, it shook my kinfolk back in Africa"

BHO maybe thinking those same thoughts today after JM's dismantlement of the taller, more hype, less
experience, younger contender.

Paul Newman is Dead at 83...how sad...

I don't know who "won" the debate...... but I'm sure the "loser" is the American people.....

Jim Lehrer obviously listened to all the criticisms about the primary debates.....
he didn't play "gotchya" politics..... he asked thoughtful and meaningful questions..... he tried hard to get the candidates to address one another and address his questions......

but all they wanted to do was repeat their talking points from their stump speeches.....

the fact that neither of them could or would address Lehrer's question concerning the bailout bill and what it would mean to either of their domestic spending plans was shameful, IMO.....

I think last night the mantle of Tweedledum and Tweedledee was passed from Bush/Cheney to McCain/Obama.....

I will vote for the Democratic one...... but I will be praying for god to help this country all the while doing so.....

"There was no clear winner in the first debate — and no clear acknowledgment of the challenges now facing the country." Flatus | September 27, 2008 9:42 AM

Flatus, The more I read this morning (including the posters on this site too) the more I agree with that conclusion you quoted from St Pete Time's.

Team BHO claimed that all of McCain talked about were is past accomplishments.
However BHO only talked about what JM did, and so that was also in the past. FryDaddy

Ha! Fry, a good observation.

McCain is a war monger...the Sept. issue of the Atlantic highlights why McCain believes war is the answer...

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/09/why_war_is_his_answer.php

I thought Obama did a great job on tying the war in Iraq to the economy and also pointing out the mistakes McCain made in voting and supporting the war in Iraq. The repug talking points about how we got into the economic mess could be applied to how we got into the mess of Iraq. But, the repugs won't go there.

Good bye to those lovely blue eyes of Paul Newman...

finally a side-by-side debate...I saw what I wanted...I really do not think I could stand four years of watching McCain and if he passes, Mrs. Palin. Yuck...just cannot watch this crew of smirking idiots for four more years. I have more of a stomach for Obama and company and I am voting that preference.

War is not the answer...peace is the answer and McCain would NEVER utter those words...he has a mutated view of winning at all costs. McCain is truly weird.

Faux Noise right now: Mark Cuban, Ted Nugent, I think Geraldine Ferraro coming up, too. Very odd, but interesting.

Obama needs to work on his rhetoric for the next one. What is it that Dems don't get about repetition, repetition, repetition to make your points stick...and be ensured lots of playback of those soundbites.

I think Tina Fey is on SNL tonight.
Tina Fey Rocks & have a good weekend.

Consensus---no winner of the "debate"----neither candidate convinced others that he was the better choice.

In the meantime--- an illustration of the disconnect between "Wall Street" and "Main Street" concerns.

"A sample sale at Hermes defies the Wall Street Malaise"

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/26/nyregion/26bigcity.html?_r=1&ref=todayspaper&oref=slogin

coreen...oprah's favorite store!

"In a week with the figure 700 billion constantly being mentioned 900 million seemed like nothing more than petty cash!"

Perhaps. But, if you multiply that 900 million by the 539 senators and representatives, the billion here and the billion there add up pretty quickly.

I think Mr McCain was pointing it out as more of a character issue--he did it until suddenly, when he announced his running, it became an embarrassment.

I thought Sen McCain could have been much more mean spirited if he brought up the pork and then tied it to Mrs O's institution.

Anyone have a good suggestion for a cheap wireless network adapter for a laptop?

Bear, Newegg and Frys both have bargains.

I really enjoyed the audience reaction graphs used by CNN during the debates. To me, most audience reaction was high when Obama spoke...McCain cratered a few times. Overall, the dem, repugs and indie lines were in synch. Rising together, falling together, etc.

McCain wears too much make-up.

Coreen

The "cram down" has been eliminated from the Paulson's Pals Payout

Hey all
Patsi
Thanks for the wonderful analysis of last nights debate.I wish you could be one of the pundits America was listening too..Oh your Sister too.What a great way to start my Saturday!!! Thanks again for coming back with such a thought provoking post.....

Chloe
Your a Star.
Since I started bloging only back during the primaries,I can't believe how important this outlet has become to me.I talk with my business partner about you all so much that to her its like your all my friends.I wish I could know so many here personally.The other day when a poster hurt my feelings by accusing me of posting as Sock,well I said to myself, this poster really doesn't know me or the person I am or my life experience so it was easy to let it go and not clash with the poster.I guess my point is opinions should be taken for what they are opinions,cause we really don't know the posters life experience or the hurt they have felt in there lives and the various other things that it takes to form those very opinions.Oh now I have to get out in the Florida sun and do some work,the pool needs tending too and I need to trim the Hybiscus.....Thanks for always having as Judge Judy say's "Your listening ears on"

Flatus...both of the Mrs. have plenty of "dirt" to play with in this campaign....but, we just want them to bake cookies.

What if we de-securitized a bunch of those mortgages (if the houses are empty) and put them on ebay?

Coreen

A sale at Hermes? In a nation curtailing expenses by buying generic and watching what they spend at WalMart? A scarf would be nice, but what is the price of eggs?

"BHO maybe thinking those same thoughts today after JM's dismantlement of the taller, more hype, less
experience, younger contender."--Fry Daddy

what debate were you watching FD. All the polls today say either a tie or Obama won it going away. Your Repug eyes glasses need a tune up.

PS

thanks to Xrep and Jamie for big laughs ysterday...Major Hoople and Gerald McBoing Boing...

Hi Katherine,

Not surprised at all, after all actually having an entity with the authority to really alter loan terms is much to practical and provides real assistance to stressed
homeowners--a cheap trick for appearance only--never intended to be included in a final agreement.

In case you are planning on having a panic attack about the economy, you might want to read this Fortune article first:

http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/25/news/economy/colvin_economy.fortune/index.htm

Mr Newman and I shared the same college. They sent out a nice email this morning with a pointer to a tribute on the college website:
http://www.kenyon.edu/index.xml

That's interesting. Poll among "debate watchers" came out with 58% Obama, but pollsters noted that more watchers were Democrats than Republicans which may have affected the numbers.

I guess the Republicans just can't stand to watch the train wreck they have caused.

Jamie,

Gee concern about the price of eggs---maybe---if it is a Faberge. But then again, I am much to cynical.

On the other hand
Bailout won't put the brakes on downward slide
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/09/27/MN8F135EL0.DTL&type=business&tsp=1

I think the Democrats are making a big mistake bailing out Paulson's Pals without considering the alternatives.
http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/09/27/the-bailout-what-are-our-options-and-why-haven-t-we-explored-them.aspx

Flatus,

The article about Newman was lovely. If anyone knows of a young person in this category, the recent $10 million Newman scholarship fund and Kenyon, might be the place to look.

He remained very generous to Kenyon throughout his lifetime, most recently contributing the endowment of $10 million to fund scholarships for 'the neediest of the needy.'

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/obama-wins-debate-by-barely-lo.html#comment-151514

I've always wanted a Faberge egg. So far the best I'm managed is one hardboiled and nicely decorated for Easter.

KGC,

I think the plan will be funded in installments so there will be the much needed infusion of cash and movement to the credit market.

I was listening to NPR while driving home yesterday and there is a professor from U of Chicago who mentioned a plan that would use the bad MBS as collateral for a loan and in turn the gov't would get an equity stake in the company. He felt that it would free up the markets and better insulate us from failure...

Bear

The Dodd plan calls for two installments but it is still alterations to the Paulson plan. I think they should do the minimum until there is a new administation.

The SFGate article says the bailout isn't going to help the economy much. "But, at best, all a government program can do is keep things from getting dramatically worse, economists say. In the worst case, a government bailout program won't keep financial conditions for households and businesses from deteriorating much further."

This this is a Shrubian program I think we can assume the worst case scenario.

PS Bear
The plan from NPR sounds like the proposal of the Congressional Republicans.

More concerns raised as to the necessity for a bailout/rescue---but as stated--not much in the way of an alternate mechanism to address it.

"Is the crisis real?"
http://www.creditslips.org/creditslips/2008/09/is-the-crisis-r.html#more

I

Coreen

Reading that link you posted "creditslip" really pissed me off.

John McCain was cool also till Barack started telling out right lies . ie one example the Kissinger remark. The truth is, this country does not want truth. They want money in their pockets w/o having to work for it or take responsibility for mismanagement. The media thinks Obama won the debate because he actually educated himself beforehand and spoke intelligently without a teleprompter and w/o so many "ughs" as usual. McCain has lived it, so he did not have to have prepare and he could go to Washington and do his JOB. Obama has the worst attendance record in the Senate so why would he go now? Does he have anything except McSame. That is wearing me out!!! Broken record. Two years ago gas was at $2.46. Two years ago the Democrats took over running this country in both houses. Wake up, people. You may get just what you ask for. Look up the recorded logs of congressional hearings!! In 2001 Bush is recorded as warning about Fannie & Freddie. He was ignored because everyone was swimming in wealth from the FALSE Clinton economy. Again, in 2003 at a congressional hearing (look it up, I think it was May) Bush again elevated his concern to critical! Again he was ignored. But does Bush stand up and scream blame to them. NO! What does that get you? Listen to all the carreer politicians just blaming each other and doing NOTHING! Guess who was greatest recepient of Fannie donations? Look it up, Bill Clinton and second largest recepient was a young new comer, YES, PEOPLE, Barack Obama!!! See any connections??? Educate yourself America. Dont believe what you hear. Neither had answers. Barack has a gift for speaking and speaking and speaking, but never saying a thing.

The Cure Is HOT HOT HOT

a musical interlude from blistersyeahbutchannel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owT5LDNoStE

It's Time for Everyone to Get HOT HOT HOT

blistersyeahbutchannel sing along

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1p9CGvOIjw&feature=related

KGC,

Even with the insurance on these MBS, unless there is cash infusion into market, there won't be relief. If they had the cash now, there wouldn't be the issues there are now.

Isn't if funny how the Republicans only want to cut corporate taxes...Pence is talking about cutting the tax rate and it worked in 2005...if it worked then, why are we in this problem now?

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/obama-wins-debate-by-barely-lo.html#comment-151543

I didn't want to impose on your budget. At 8 presents each for Chanukah, I thought you might be a little stretched.

If that's not true, I could pick out seven more eggs.

Bear

Coreen posted this link..
"Is the crisis real?"
http://www.creditslips.org/creditslips/2008/09/is-the-crisis-r.html#more

I

They argue the money is there and Wall Street is waiting for cheap deals via the Bush administration.

Did John McCain suggest that Obama isn't ready to lead because he agreed with John McCain? Is that really smart?

How does a candidate approve an ad he clearly didn't see? Funny that McCain knew that Obama would be polite and would use it against him like that...

"...I wish to hell they would go back to DC and try to help fix it."

patsi, totally agree with your sis. fact is, i couldn't understand why they didn't let lehrer et al do the debate from dc... maybe even from the russell bldg. or one of their senate offices. and why are you reading this and not working like she told you to?

flatus, love the e-bay idea for a bailout. better believe something like that is already going on, but in loftier circles.
tony, thanks

Bear-

'Overrated' warnings

Democratic Rep. Pete Stark of Fremont, a former banker, said he probably will not support it, calling dire warnings of a credit meltdown "grossly overrated."

"I think we are being railroaded in the same manner we were to vote for Iraq," Stark said. "The banks of the Bay Area are in good shape, and they're bailing out Wall Street for $700 billion. It's irresponsible and reckless."

Stark said he has been working to get a third of that sum for universal health care, and that with $15 billion, all Californians could have health insurance.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/09/26/MNOO1367MD.DTL&type=business

Are the dire warnings of a credit meldown grossly overated---that seems to be the $700 billion dollar question.

Sorry, Katherine, did not mean to let you get "pissed off" but----

The speed in which Paulson wanted this bailout to
proceed may have been to prevent any of the questions
that are being raised as to the actual existence of
a crisis---however, it would seem that we will in all
likelihood never really know if the crisis is real or
manufactured---as the rumblings are that an agreement in principle is near.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601110&sid=a3EMvGblC17k

look and see who is pushing the hardest for the
bail-out' then find out who will benefit most from it

this time the wall street multi millionaires got caught
holding the bag ''they are loosing there money now
and they are squeling like stuck pigs

Coreen

And in a few years, we will be promoting the candidacy of someone who said they won't vote for the bailout..arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

friend of mine made a you tubie: He calls it Single Wide sonnet #1.

I havent checked the rhyme scheme yet to see if it's petrarchian or shakespearean:

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=Cd2NYe4YuXs

"We have our first state-level tracking poll, this one from the Morning Call in Pennsylvania. Obama has slight lead over McCain in statewide poll"

"Fallout from the crisis on Wall Street appears to have propelled Barack Obama into a slight lead over John McCain in Pennsylvania.

Democrat Obama leads Republican McCain 47 percent to 43 percent in this key swing state, a new Morning Call/Muhlenberg College poll shows. "

http://www.mcall.com/news/nationworld/state/all-a1_5poll.6604193sep26,0,1738520.story

Any one out there remember the Keating Five?

You know, the Great S&L Robbery from the late 'eighties?

Rosie

Why do you hate John Glenn

Remember John McCain was one of five congressmen that was censured for that?

Because he got to see Earth from above and I never will. Sour grapes, I guess.

But why do I hate Alan Cranston, Donald Riegle and Dennis De Concini to the tune of hundreds and thousands of dollars? I'm just so petty.

After a lengthy investigation, the Senate Ethics Committee determined in 1991 that Alan Cranston, Dennis DeConcini, and Donald Riegle had substantially and improperly interfered with the FHLBB in its investigation of Lincoln Savings. Senators John Glenn and John McCain were cleared of having acted improperly.

All five of the senators involved served out their terms. Only Glenn and McCain ran for re-election, and they were both re-elected.

McCain was not censured.

You probably think FDR was president when the depression started.

OMG sturg......

ROFLMAO!!!!!

most definitely shakespearean.......

I've spent the morning listening to the various soundbites from the debates here: http://www.entertonement.com/tags/clips/4273

The worldwide vote--your chance to tip the scales:
http://www.economist.com/vote2008

In what can be a most telling post debate comment,

A High School classmate of mine, a top aide to John Ashcroft when he was still in the Senate, has the following on his facebook today...

"KR is wondering which is more important, experience or sanity?"

Of course the same question will work after the next debate but it can't be good when the true believers think you're a nutjob...

Well I just woke up from a nap, almost 10 pm here, and was reading comments and am terribly sad to read that Paul Newman is dead. A true loss in the family of humanity. My heart, for what it's worth, goes out to Joanne Woodward.

Paul Newman --- Damned lung cancer ! Now that I read further, I feel so sad for his daughters and grandchildren. He remained a truly exemplary person through his life through both triumph and tragedy (the death of his son Scott). I didn't even know he was ever married before Joanne. I've been googling to see if his first wife, Jackie Witte, is still alive. I am sure she is also very sad. Divorce doesn't totally break the connection, especially with children involved. Wow... I am amazed at how sad I am.

ETom

I agree with you totally about Paul Newman..... he was a true American treasure, IMO..... and I will always think of him as the sexiest man that Hollywood ever produced.....

I buy many of his company's food products...... I think they are not only worth the few cents more one pays for them.... I love knowing that all of the after tax profits go to charity also....

I misspoke. It was Cranston that was scolded by the Senate Ethics Committee, and none of the Keating Five were punished and Keating himself was released from prison, his covictions thrown out on technicalities. Who watches the watchmen? McCain was still part of the Keating Five, and the S&L Robbery cost taxpayers how many billions of dollars? Just because no one is convicted dosen't mean the crime didn't happen.

Speaking of "sadness", I am reminded of the failure of Farmers and Mechanics Savings Bank of Minneapolis, where I was employed.

Here is the building I worked in for 5.5 years: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farmers_and_Mechanics_Savings_Bank_(1942) It was Minnesota's only Mutual Savings Bank. Many school kids began their savings accounts via F&M where envelopes would be given to each child for their coins to be collected and deposited.

We were in big trouble after the double digit inflationary interest rates being offered on savings in the early 1980s. We were headed for disaster quickly because all of our investments were in home mortgages from 4, 5, 6 or 7% interest rates, but we were paying out 15.50% on highly lucrative 30 month certificate savings.

"The mutual savings banks and thrifts were severely affected by the deregulation of interest rates. Insolvent thrifts were allowed to use brokered deposits to stay in operation and to grow their assets or engage in new activities that could not have been funded through traditional sources. At the same time, regulatory accounting standards for thrifts were adopted allowing many to exist with little or no capital. Those institutions, with little or no capital on the line and access to fully-insured brokered deposits, in many cases took extraordinary risks that resulted in large losses. "

In 2005, I visited the historic building entering the 6th street entrance. The building was open as the second floor serves as one of Minneapolis' skyway passageways. As I rode up the escalator, I saw the lobby totally empty, the beautiful lobby where I used to work for part of my career. I was tearful seeing this. Last year, I visited and the bank had been converted into a Westin Hotel. My hat's off to the Westin for retaining the rich architectural design of F&M. They gave me a tour, and I gave a bit of a history lesson to the people working there.

Farmers and Mechanics Savings Bank, Minneapolis, Minnesota, was merged into Marquette National Bank, Minneapolis, Minnesota. As a result of the merger, F&M Marquette National Bank (later just Marquette National Bank) became the fourth largest commercial bank in Minnesota. The philosophy of every saver mattered was replaced by "got a $100 in your account, so what?. Got $100,000, sit down, we'll talk to you". As a top customer service rep at the bank, I treated every customer with dignity and respect. In my typical fashion, I refused to embrace that philosophy, still taking steps to help each customer regardless of bank balances. I left the bank in a voluntary lay-off in May 1984 and two months later moved to Seattle Washington.

Still, F&M is the place I worked for 5.5 years, and a place where many friendships were made. I excelled there, without a college education, and was highly recognized as the best customer service rep (telephone banking) in a staff of over 30 people. I do think had I then had my college degrees I would have advanced further. Still ... starting in the mail transactions department, moving to the Pay by Phone section then to customer service and Personal banking, I did well. I wasn't mature enough, however, to recognize how much I had going for me. On the other hand, the move to Seattle allowed me to pursue my childhood dream of higher education and eventually a wonderful 7 year stint as the Development Director of KAOS radio in Olympia Washington.

Ah the memories. The financial crises I read about today reminds me about our situation back then. A lot has changed since then. I for one think the banking deregulation has taken away many of the safety nets that protected local community banks and their customers. Sadly, local community banks have been largely "eaten up" by huge conglomerates serving their corporate headquarters masters, rather than firstly the interests of their communities.

Patsi; 9:55 am ................... Hi Patsi, welcome back, and Hear Hear on your 9:55 post...........................................

I don't know what debate you all were watching but the one I was watching was a yawner and as I said last night neither one of these guys could get potholes filled if he was running for city council - poor us........

BTW has anyone else heard that Cheney has bought retirement property in Dubai and that the Shrubs, father and son have bought property in Paraguay. I wonder if that's where Rummy has been hiding out? .....................

Rita

Well, they've nearly ruined this country, so Cheney and the Shrubians might as well move to Dubai or Paraguay or wherever the hell else will have them.

Wherever they choose, it has to be somewhere without extradition treaties.

Excellent point, Jamie. Maybe we can safely bring them back if they're only buying vacation property...but it wouldn't make me sad to see the ass end of the lot of the Shrubians...forever!

Market Myths: The failings of conservative economics

A review of: Selling the Free Market by J. Aune; One Market Under God by T. Frank; and After Progress by N. Birnbaum
By James K. Galbraith

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2001/0103.galbraith.html

"Shoot them in their sleep, isn't that why we have special op forces for?"

Suggesting assasination? You posted disgust and hatred for Senator Clinton for bringing up the idea of RFK's death and posted 87 times the RFJ jr comment about Palin and Westbrook Pegler.

How tedius is hypocrisy.

Weirdest

Weirderino

Is it a full moon?

I dont know I just walkened in on Hypo being insubordinate to Brine............and I wanted to play the weirdness game too.......they quit playing but my next woulda been "Weirdmeister" (makin' copies)

Sturgeone

I'll throw in a "Hi Ho" in front of your weirderino. Maybe we can ressurect Louis Nye and Steve Allen

http://www.museum.tv/archives/etv/S/htmlS/steveallens/steveallens.htm

with a hey nonny nonny and a dosie dough........High steppin' down in Sector IV.

Inconsequential Voter

More Republicans antics
"Wisconsin Congressional candidate John Gard is one of the first Republican candidates looking to score some political points over the Wall Street bailout.

He released a new campaign ad today that criticizes the proposed bailout package, while attacking his Democratic opponent, Rep. Steve Kagen (D-Wis.), for voting to “raise taxes on families by $1,800.”
http://www.politico.com/blogs/scorecard/

New bi-partisan group formed to stop the bail out

http://nocashfortrash.org/

McCain: ‘When They Call It a Tie That Means We Win’

Hmmmm... maybe he could also say ... "When they call it the trickle down system, it means the majority get pissed on"...

No, it is not a a full moon, it is a waning moon, euro tom, just ask me when you want a n update on the moon phases! .
This undecided voter found his smirking and extremely unsubstantiated.arrogance to be like a painful deja vu.

anyone out there know whether this waning moon is the one that ushers in the end of ramadan and do today's bombings in damascus and delhi have any connection to eid?

it started out as such a beautiful day today. remember this morning's euphoria et? sturge?

To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing. [willy shake]

and with that i bid adieu.... nite nite all

What's with the repub plan they promised? All I've heard is that they want the people responsible to personally put up the money - sounds to me that following that, there would need to be anymore regulation. (Can't you hear them saying that?) I don't trust the repubs to fix any crisis about money. I honestly don't think they give a damn about us as long as we wrok and pay our taxes and put our money where they suggest.

Sturge - your pal's sonnet is wonderful! I wasn't sure where he was going and then that end!!!!! Forward our trhanks to him.

patd.......-sigh-

bethy....leave him a comment on the youtube clip.....I'm sure he'd appreciate it.......

Big Baboon, The


The Big Baboon is found upon
The plains of Cariboo:
He goes about with nothing on
(A shocking thing to do).

But if he dressed up respectably
And let his whiskers grow,
How like this Big Baboon would be
To Mister So-and-so!

Hilaire Belloc

Song Of The Furies


Up and lead the dance of Fate!
Lift the song that mortals hate!
Tell what rights are ours on earth,
Over all of human birth.
Swift of foot to avenge are we!
He whose hands are clean and pure,
Naught our wrath to dread hath he;
Calm his cloudless days endure.
But the man that seeks to hide
Like him (1), his gore-bedewèd hands,
Witnesses to them that died,
The blood avengers at his side,
The Furies' troop forever stands.

O'er our victim come begin!
Come, the incantation sing,
Frantic all and maddening,
To the heart a brand of fire,
The Furies' hymn,
That which claims the senses dim,
Tuneless to the gentle lyre,
Withering the soul within.

The pride of all of human birth,
All glorious in the eye of day,
Dishonored slowly melts away,
Trod down and trampled to the earth,
Whene'er our dark-stoled troop advances,
Whene'er our feet lead on the dismal dances.

For light our footsteps are,
And perfect is our might,
Awful remembrances of guilt and crime,
Implacable to mortal prayer,
Far from the gods, unhonored, and heaven's light,
We hold our voiceless dwellings dread,
All unapproached by living or by dead.

What mortal feels not awe,
Nor trembles at our name,
Hearing our fate-appointed power sublime,
Fixed by the eternal law.
For old our office, and our fame,
Might never yet of its due honors fail,
Though 'neath the earth our realm in unsunned regions pale.

Aeschylus

Ok I just finished watching the whole debate, and I was largely bored to tears. I found little common ground where I could agree with Senator McCain, and much agreement with Senator Obama. I do think that both men behaved rather well in the debate, though I would give the courtesy award to Senator Obama. I do feel that Senator McCain's impassioned support for the troops was real and heartfelt and I see that as one of his shining moments. I was glad that Senator Obama could answer the charge that he voted against increased funding for the troops. Both he and Senator McCain voted against particular legislations on which the troop funding increases were attached. The problem for the American people is that most do not understand that bill attachments does not mean that someone has voted FOR or AGAINST a particular issue, but, rather, the main thrust of the bill itself. This is how Senator Kerry got quartered and skewered for his comment "I actually voted for that bill before I voted against it"...

Overall, advantage to Obama... though I hesitate to say so because as I recall, in every presidential debate cycle I have watched, the Democrat has been declared the winner of the first debate and went down in flames later on and with that, losing the election. President Clinton stands out as a stellar exception.

If anyone here can honestly say their lives have improved in the last 8 years under the stewardship of President George W. Bush then by all means you should vote for John McCain. If you feel your lives have not improved in the context of economy, the American Dream etc., then this is YOUR chance to take the step to change it. Vote Barack Obama for President.

Obama/Biden 2008 because we really don't need 4 more years of the last 8.

Epitaph on a Tyrant

Perfection, of a kind, was what he was after
And the poetry he invented was easy to understand;
He knew human folly like the back of his hand,
And was greatly interested in armies and fleets;
When he laughed, respectable senators burst with laughter,
And when he cried the little children died in the streets.

W. H. Auden

Sturge - Will do so. Your latest poetic offerings are great, also, especially the Big Baboon...it is so relevant today. Who could it be? My first thought is Cheney, but Rumsfield will suffice as well.

I just saw an interview on cnn with Roland Martin, who I pretty much really like, and Zain Verjee, who fascinates me. She's Kenyan and was over there on the rioting streets during their election debacle - wonder how many languaes she speaks.

Anyway, they were discussing how many other topics were yet to be mentioned, i.e. Cuba and the whole world of Islam. They didn't seem to be saying they should all have been covered las night, but that they were still important and should be covered sometime.
Maybe Sarah Palin could giver us her insight.

Did I see right, that Citigroup is considering taking over Wachovia? Were Wachovia and Wamu part of the 700B dollar rescue? Seems to me we're getting close to creating more of the too-big-to-fail set-ups.

The man whose riches satisfy his greed

The man whose riches satisfy his greed
Is not more rich for all those heaps and hoards
Than some poor man who has enough to feed
And clothe his corpse with such as God affords.

I have no use for men who steal and cheat;
The fruit of evil poisons those who eat.

Some wicked men are rich, some good men poor,
But I would rather trust in what's secure;
Our virtue sticks with us and makes us strong,
But money changes owners all day long.

Solon

Sturge - another good one. I especially like the line about money changing hands all the time.

ET - I can say that my life has improved in the last eight years, but then, I inherited some dough. Also, I have accumulated tons of evidence that I was right about W!

The Split Personality of John McCain
1. The fundamentals of the economy are sound.
2. I'll win the debate on Friday.
3. The economy is unravelling.
4. I have to cancel my campaign to cure the economy.
5. I can't make it, Letterman, I'll be flying to cure the economy.
6. Nope, no debate on Friday. Not 'til I cure the economy
7. Hi, Katie. Thanks for having me.
8. First, I want to thank Ole Miss for hosting this debate.

Is it the Furies, make him a fool ? Or demonic possession ? Or is he merely a flake ?

LOL betty.. good one!

On that note I am back to bed. It's 3 am here...

TTFN!!!

And all of this is going on while men and women die in Bushie's war. Nothing much changes, this one was written two years after WW I

We thought when we sat in the soup, old man, with the curling flames all round,
We thought it we didn't get scorched or choked or buried or boiled or drowned,
We thought to the end of our days on earth we should live like kings uncrowned.

We thought if we ever came home alive they would fall on our necks half mad,
And turn their hearts for us inside out and load us with all they had;
That nothing would be too good for us, since nothing was then too bad.

We thought, and the thought of it warmed us up, and gave us strength anew,
And carried us on till the task was done; we thought - but it wasn't true,

George Willis

sketches from paris and other locales:

http://bmgarnersketches.blogspot.com/

Fleas


Adam
Had'em

Ogden Nash

Can cheney get boozed up in Dubai ?

Jamie,

That Willis poem stung. It also reminded me of mccain's atrocious lie that he stands up for the vets.

How can that man sleep at night ?

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/obama-wins-debate-by-barely-lo.html#comment-151666

Thank you. My dear departed dad's favorite poem...though I thought it was by "anonymous." :)

Genius


Genius, like gold and precious stones,
is chiefly prized because of its rarity.

Geniuses are people who dash off weird, wild,
incomprehensible poems with astonishing facility,
and get booming drunk and sleep in the gutter.

Genius elevates its possessor to ineffable spheres
far above the vulgar world and fills his soul
with regal contempt for the gross and sordid things of earth.

It is probably on account of this
that people who have genius
do not pay their board, as a general thing.

Geniuses are very singular.

If you see a young man who has frowsy hair
and distraught look, and affects eccentricity in dress,
you may set him down for a genius.

If he sings about the degeneracy of a world
which courts vulgar opulence
and neglects brains,
he is undoubtedly a genius.

If he is too proud to accept assistance,
and spurns it with a lordly air
at the very same time
that he knows he can't make a living to save his life,
he is most certainly a genius.

If he hangs on and sticks to poetry,
notwithstanding sawing wood comes handier to him,
he is a true genius.

If he throws away every opportunity in life
and crushes the affection and the patience of his friends
and then protests in sickly rhymes of his hard lot,
and finally persists,
in spite of the sound advice of persons who have got sense
but not any genius,
persists in going up some infamous back alley
dying in rags and dirt,
he is beyond all question a genius.

But above all things,
to deftly throw the incoherent ravings of insanity into verse
and then rush off and get booming drunk,
is the surest of all the different signs
of genius.

Mark Twain

Ok - since poetry is in the air, here's one of my favorites.
When my mom read it to us in the late 40's, she kinda cautioned us (in an oblique way - ha!) not to mention it to other people. I love the sounds and the meter, and the content. Read it out loud. I hope it come thru ok.

http://www.whoopis.com/~mbates/evolution.php

hmmmmm- strange mood ole mark was in.

Maureen Down is predictable.

"And who cares what Henry Kissinger thinks? He was wrong 35 years ago, and it’s only gotten worse since then.

Obama did a poor job of getting under McCain’s skin. Or maybe McCain did an exceptional job of not letting Obama get under his skin. McCain nattered about earmarks and Obama ran out of gas."

never fear, I'll tell him Bethy said it was funny.......lol

"I love the sounds and the meter, and the content. Read it out loud. I hope it come thru ok."

And, by Monday, commit to memory and prepare to recite at my request.

ha ha.......at 61 thanks for one thing......no more of that commit to memory crap........

But Flatus & Sturge - did you read it?

Sturg, I still remember some of the really important stuff like,

Two cows mildly mooing
No bull
Nothing doing

O. Nash

In a year, when the Democrats, should be a shoe-in for a win. Why then is Obama, still almost in a tie with Sen. McCain? I'll tell you why people, are starting to wake-up and smell the coffee. This man is a liar. And if Pa. has anything to say about, it McCain, will be POTUS. You see, there are alot of pissed-off women, who won't vote for the two-timing Dem. Party. And just like Obama said," We are bitter, we cling to our guns,and our religion." So thank you very much big mouth Obama, for telling the truth about us behind our backs, since you are not man enough to say it to our faces. McCain\Palin, for a better tomorrow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, Bethy, but I'm so tired right now, I'll have to read it again in the morning.

Why doesn't Obama occasionally say, "You need ME"? He keeps saying, "I need YOUR vote".

He could ad on something like, "You need me to _____(get jobs back here, straighten out the lobbyist mess, etc.)"

tt

bethy.......yes......I liked it......melliflous and pleasing......
thanks much for posting........

Sunday talk show tip sheet

"On NBC’s “Meet the Press,” host Tom Brokaw visits with former President Bill Clinton about all things political.

Who will Clinton declare a winner in the all-important first debate? "
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/14003.html

Travels show Ohio center of political universe
The old map is the new map
"Despite the early predictions about an expansive competitive landscape, the 2008 campaign remains a fight over a dozen states, analysts say."
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/obama-wins-debate-by-barely-lo.html

The Mac is back
"John McCain was very lucky that he decided to show up for the first presidential debate in Oxford, Miss., Friday night. Because he gave one of his strongest debate performances ever."
http://www.politico.com/rogersimon/

My only comment about the debate. Don't the candidates both know what the year is? Both of them sounded like they were in 1992 with their solutions.

The world is collapsing around us and the idiots appear to be oblivious.

I made it half way through and got up stepped outside. The wife ask me what I was doing, I told her if I was lucky I would find a brick. When I came back in we were watching her taped program of The Closer.

Jack

So, okay, Sturge & Flatus, I know it isn't great literature, but I still enjoy reading it. It has a soft quality to it and I like what it says. I like a lot of different kinds of poems for different reasons - images, sounds, ideas, feelings.

I used to give my students an assignment to find a pix in a magazine that fit with at least four lines of poetry, attach the pix to a sheet of paper, and write the lines underneath. I let them use lyrics from songs - don't know if I could do it today. But there were some great ones, and all the students took part. One of the funniest was a pix of Hitler with the lyrics from No More Mr Nice guy. I made directions carefully so that even if someone else picked it out, it had to be done by them in their own writing cuz I wanted them to associate verse with the world they saw every day. I still have a lot of them today.

Freedom of speech to be cutailed by Obama in Missouri. Here is Gov Blunt's statement of the tactics of the Obama campaign. If he does not like an ad about him, he wants to throw people in jail. So what's next - after free speech is gone and jail

http://governor.mo.gov/cgi-bin/coranto/viewnews.cgi?id=EkkkVFulkpOzXqGMaj&style=Default+News+Style&tmpl=newsitem

I like several of the provisions in the plan. I think it was a nice bi-partisan effort - and you see the handiwork of both parties in the plan.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/financial_meltdown

But I also see that Wall St., the Gov't and tax payers are now inextricably intertwined (even more so than before...it is now official!)

Julie:

That letter is way over the top and contains plenty of accusations and charged words - but little to no facts.

Obama is fighting back against the slander - in a way that I am sure many of us wish Kerry did.

I was a President that is tough AND smart.

I want a President that is tough AND smart.

(sorry was not trying to invoke the ghost of Warren Taft... ; )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_G._Harding

Good night.

Big day of Sunday shows tomorrow.

(And I am off to a visit to the Kennedy Space Center. Free for residents tomorrow.)

He could ad on something like, "You need me to _____(get jobs back here, straighten out the lobbyist mess, etc.)"

tt

Posted by: tiptoe | September 27, 2008 10:31 PM

tt, if Obama said that wouldn't his distractors call him "arrogant"? Oh yeah, they do that already.

Politico story - Obama trying to supress NRA ads in pennsylvania and Ohio. This is where the people are supposedly "clinging to their guns and religion".

Suppression of first amendment. ?

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0908/Obama_seeks_to_take_down_NRA_ad.html?showall

Julie - I don't get it. What if the basis for these charges? Did I not get the entire link? I'm not enamored of Obama and can't stand McCaskill, but that doesn't make the governor's accusations true. Frankly, this article is just a bunch of name-calling to me, and it might work in Missouri but as a national tactic it is silly without details. (I'm from Missouri and the politics there are different.) It is miles away from making me consider changing my vote to McCain.

The very ease with which the governor cried "foul" shows how meaningless such a stunt would be for any politician - they'd get caught, qed.

Beth

This is all I could find. One of the news channels ran the story along the bottom of the screen that Obama wanted the missouri law enforcement to put in jail anyone that ran ads that Obama did not like. I googled it and this is what came up. perhaps more on the story later when it is more publicized.

Julie and Beth-

I saw a District Attorney from St. Louis holding a press conference on a local TV station there and she acknowledged they are monitoring ads that appear to be spreading "lies" about Obama. She went on to say he is a christian and he will lower taxes and they will take action against anyone stating otherwise. If you google "truth squads Missouri" you'll get more info.
It's frightening. These "truth squads" started in the South Carolina Primary against Hillary. I also read that the Obama campaign hsa sent "cease and desist" letters to local stations in Pennsylvania and Ohio to block NRA ads from running.

Bethy.....if you put up a poem, I read it......Im not really concerned about so-called "great literature" (cf. "Fleas" by Nash.....lol) I enjoyed the poem and looked up more by Langdon Smith just to see what else he was about......he was quite an interesting fellow:

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Langdon Smith (4 January 1858 - 8 April 1908) was an American journalist, writer and poet.
Born in Kentucky he went to school in Louisville. His letters concerning the Apache and Comanche wars, in which he served as a trooper, gained him his first newspaper position.

In 1894 he married Marie Antionette Wright, and soon after went to Cuba, reporting for the New York Herald on the guerilla efforts of Antonio Maceo Grajales. He later returned to Cuba, at the outbreak of the Spanish-American War, reporting for the New York Journal.

He wrote short stories and a novel On the Pan Handle but is most famous as the author of the love poem "Evolution", sometimes sub-titled or mistakenly called "A Tadpole and a Fish".[1]

The first few stanzas of this famous poem were written and published in the New York Herald in 1895. It was worked upon for many years and later published in full in the New York Journal sometime before 1906, and posthumously published in illustrated and annotated book form as Evolution : A Fantasy (1909).

He died at his home in New York on 8 April 1908.[2] Lewis Allen Browne in his preface to Evolution : A Fantasy (1909) reports that his wife died less than five weeks later, saying: "Their lives and affections linked as they were, in his poetic fancy at least, since the beginning of time seemed to have created between them in reality a bond too close to survive a parting."

You too can make a "Jackson Pollock" original:

http://jacksonpollock.org/

Looks like a blank screen at first.......just click on it and move the mousie.........

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/obama-wins-debate-by-barely-lo.html#comment-151716

I agree ubs (and Julie). It's been frightening since the beginning (and the media picking our President - what's that about?).

Hi Sturge. What's happened to Jack? Do you know?

Scratch that. I should have check all the post first.

"The world is collapsing around us and the idiots appear to be oblivious."
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/obama-wins-debate-by-barely-lo.html#comment-151690

Missed your comments Jack.

"So, okay, Sturge & Flatus, I know it isn't great literature, but I still enjoy reading it. It has a soft quality to it and I like what it says. I like a lot of different kinds of poems for different reasons - images, sounds, ideas, feelings." Bethyboo@3:40

Bethy, I wasn't being critical; I'm normally heavily medicated and before bedtime, I have a couple of supplemental meds that were starting to kick-in. My ability to focus on something as complex as the poem you shared is limited under the best of circumstances, and impossible last night. I will give it another shot this morning.

I like the approach you used with your students. Make them think, and think, and think--rigorously.

Race for president builds characters
Once again, we're treated to not just a campaign but a collision of myths.

'The true campaign is the deep campaign, the subsurface campaign, which concerns not just what the candidates say but who they are and what they represent -- what they symbolize."

"The warrior turned lawman confronts the community organizer turned law professor. The sheriff (who married the heiress) wrestles with the outsider who rode into town and made a place for himself. No wonder this race is thrilling and tense. America is struggling to fasten a name on its soul."
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-gitlin28-2008sep28,0,7896539.story

"Bethy.....if you put up a poem, I read it......Im not really concerned about so-called "great literature" (cf. "Fleas" by Nash.....lol) I enjoyed the poem and looked up more by Langdon Smith just to see what else he was about......he was quite an interesting fellow:: Sturg@7:16

I wiki'd the same article. I was surprised there wasn't a British connection--primarily because of his mention of fens and flint both of which are distinctively East Anglian.

In the middle of all the bad news, I didn't know this.

Postcard From Charlotte
"... there's no longer anything trifling about Charlotte. With $2 trillion in assets being managed from the glossy bank towers of Tryon Street, the city is now the nation's No. 2 financial center behind New York City. In early September, Bank of America, the behemoth of North Tryon and the largest U.S. bank, swallowed the beleaguered investment firm Merrill Lynch, while Wachovia, its competitor on South Tryon, considered a merger with Morgan Stanley. And while the rest of the country is sinking, Charlotte is soaring, with 28 construction cranes downtown. It's got the nation's least-battered metropolitan-housing market, lowest office-vacancy rates and fastest-growing airport. It hosts the NBA's Charlotte Bobcats and the NFL's Carolina Panthers. Its center-city population has doubled since 2000, and its light-rail system, just a year old, is already approaching its ridership goal for 2025. Meanwhile, ribbon-cuttings are scheduled for the NASCAR Hall of Fame, three museums, a theater and an African-American cultural center by 2010."
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1844558,00.html

Good day all.

Good morning all
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/obama-wins-debate-by-barely-lo.html#comment-151711

Hey Warren
I didn't know you lived in Florida where abouts? Enjoy Kennedy Space Center! I'm in New Smyrna Beach/Edgewater,only 30 miles from Kennedy.

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FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Saturday, September 27, 2008
Contact: Jessica Robinson, 573-751-0290

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Gov. Blunt Statement on Obama Campaign’s Abusive Use of Missouri Law Enforcement

JEFFERSON CITY - Gov. Matt Blunt today issued the following statement on news reports that have exposed plans by U.S. Senator Barack Obama to use Missouri law enforcement to threaten and intimidate his critics.

“St. Louis County Circuit Attorney Bob McCulloch, St. Louis City Circuit Attorney Jennifer Joyce, Jefferson County Sheriff Glenn Boyer, and Obama and the leader of his Missouri campaign Senator Claire McCaskill have attached the stench of police state tactics to the Obama-Biden campaign.

“What Senator Obama and his helpers are doing is scandalous beyond words, the party that claims to be the party of Thomas Jefferson is abusing the justice system and offices of public trust to silence political criticism with threats of prosecution and criminal punishment.

“This abuse of the law for intimidation insults the most sacred principles and ideals of Jefferson. I can think of nothing more offensive to Jefferson’s thinking than using the power of the state to deprive Americans of their civil rights. The only conceivable purpose of Messrs. McCulloch, Obama and the others is to frighten people away from expressing themselves, to chill free and open debate, to suppress support and donations to conservative organizations targeted by this anti-civil rights, to strangle criticism of Mr. Obama, to suppress ads about his support of higher taxes, and to choke out criticism on television, radio, the Internet, blogs, e-mail and daily conversation about the election.

“Barack Obama needs to grow up. Leftist blogs and others in the press constantly say false things about me and my family. Usually, we ignore false and scurrilous accusations because the purveyors have no credibility. When necessary, we refute them. Enlisting Missouri law enforcement to intimidate people and kill free debate is reminiscent of the Sedition Acts - not a free society.”

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As people work their way through the Times opinion pages this morning, I commend John Eisenhower's piece on whether or not children of our president and vice president should be allowed to serve in combat.

He concludes that they should not.

I disagree. I see the children as being de facto extensions of the sovereign. They should be permitted the honor of serving in combat--the honor of defending their nation where it matters most and where the stakes are completely unambiguous..

Korbel sues over postings on Craigslist
Wine giant accuses anonymous critics of defamation; case could test free speech on Internet

By STEVE HART
THE PRESS DEMOCRAT
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20080928/NEWS/809280333/1350?Title=Korbel_sues_over_postings_on_Craigslist

People responsible for the crap the post...what a concept!

Obama's Truth Squad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIenDGSAdPA
Sieg Heil

With regard to the bailout/rescue legislation

Query: After both have talked at length about this matter in an effort to show he is the right leader at a time of "crisis"----

Will either or both of the candidates actually cast a vote for it or will either or both of them be unavailable?

If anyone here can honestly say their lives have improved in the last 8 years under the stewardship of President George W. Bush then by all means you should vote for John McCain. If you feel your lives have not improved in the context of economy, the American Dream etc., then this is YOUR chance to take the step to change it. Vote Barack Obama for President.

Obama/Biden 2008 because we really don't need 4 more years of the last 8.

Obama Wants NRA Ads Banned
http://www.newsmax.com/politics/Obama_Wants_NRA_Ads_Banne/2008/09/27/135118.html

Obama's Truth Squad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIenDGSAdPA
Sieg Heil
Posted by: Animal Control | September 28, 2008 10:43 AM

The Nazi reference is inappropriate AC...

I wish the USA had the same rule that Belgium does. People have to address issues and not create false rumors or attacks in order to sway voters against one side and to the other. Truth should always win out... and the personal attacks should stop.

I realize that in the USA, our Jerry Springer culture would never embrace such civility, but it is sorely needed and way over due.

In a year, when the Democrats, should be a shoe-in for a win. Why then is Obama, still almost in a tie with Sen. McCain? I'll tell you why people, are starting to wake-up and smell the coffee. This man is a liar. And if Pa. has anything to say about, it McCain, will be POTUS. You see, there are alot of pissed-off women, who won't vote for the two-timing Dem. Party. And just like Obama said," We are bitter, we cling to our guns,and our religion." So thank you very much big mouth Obama, for telling the truth about us behind our backs, since you are not man enough to say it to our faces. McCain\Palin, for a better tomorrow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Lampe | September 27, 2008 10:30 PM

My response:

If anyone here can honestly say their lives have improved in the last 8 years under the stewardship of President George W. Bush then by all means you should vote for John McCain. If you feel your lives have not improved in the context of economy, the American Dream etc., then this is YOUR chance to take the step to change it. Vote Barack Obama for President.

Obama/Biden 2008 because we really don't need 4 more years of the last 8.

Hey Coreen

Here is a summary of the proposed bailout

http://calculatedrisk.blogspot.com/

basically nothing but lipservice for distressed homeowners.
The Democrats supporting it say they will push for the Clinton plan...but will it come in time to do any good.

"..I've proposed a new Home Owners' Loan Corporation (HOLC), to launch a national effort to help homeowners refinance their mortgages. The original HOLC, launched in 1933, bought mortgages from failed banks and modified the terms so families could make affordable payments while keeping their homes. The original HOLC returned a profit to the Treasury and saved one million homes. We can save roughly three times that many today. We should also put in place a temporary moratorium on foreclosures and freeze rate hikes in adjustable-rate mortgages. We've got to stem the tide of failing mortgages and give the markets time to recover." Senator Clinton

I don't see why this couldn't have been part of the package now.

if the NRA actually ever spoke the truth in anything they produce or say, it would make national news. I don't think the Obama campaign should involve themselves in any way with trying to censor them because it will just back fire (no pun intended). Frankly I am sick of the hard-ons people get over their guns. It's a sick culture and something has to be done to correct it.

but, Warren......I do see a bit of a difference between Obe's church problem and SPalin's......in that Obe severed his ties with the Rev after the Rev's big speech......Palin cannot really do the same as she is almost defined by her church and certainly would suffer with her very base if she were to say, as Obe did, "that's not me."
It certainly can be argued that maybe the conversation should just avoid the church problems of both just to, say, concentrate on more important issues.........and no one really needs to be concentrating their focus on the Vice Presidential candidate. It's kind of off kilter to be concentrating on the second banana rather than the policies and issues of McCain.....so you're probably right, overall............but the right wing ultra-christian church thing is probably just as generally distateful to the great center of things as is the Rev Wright's church.....and she can't repudiate it.

Just a reminder of NRA mindset... Here is Ted Nugent from August 2007

Ted Nugent, NRA Board Member, Threatens to Kill Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton During Vicious Onstage Rant

This is the latest in a series of unacceptable extremist rhetoric -- and in this case a threat against the life of U.S. Senators -- from NRA role model and activist, Ted Nugent.

According to Rolling Stone magazine:

Renegade right-winger Ted Nugent recently went on a vicious onstage rant in which he threatened the lives of Democratic presidential candidates Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton. Decked out in full-on camouflage hunting gear, Nugent wielded two machine guns while raging, “Obama, he’s a piece of s**t. I told him to su*k on my machine gun. Hey Hillary,” he continued. “You might want to ride one of these into the sunset, you worthless b***h.” Nugent summed up his eloquent speech by screaming “freedom!”

This isn’t the first time Nugent has been caught spewing hatred. Last January, the guitarist caused a scandal for Republican Texas governor Rick Perry when he, among other abhorrent comments, wore a Confederate flag shirt and insulted immigrants at Perry’s inauguration event. In July, Nugent was quoted in a Wall Street Journal story blaming “stoned, dirty, stinky hippies” for “rising rates of divorce, high school drop-outs, drug use, abortion, sexual diseases and crime, not to mention the exponential expansion of government and taxes.”

GunGuys.com is urgently demanding that the National Rifle Association immediately remove Ted Nugent from his position as a board member of the NRA after Nugent threatened United States Senators and Presidential candidates Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton.

http://www.gunguys.com/?p=2417

Yeah, I think we should all be dropping crocodile tears for the poor, picked on NRA.

Oh who cares where the Powerpuff Girl goes to Church?

Keep religion out of the damn election, on all fricken sides. Is our country going totally LOCO with all this religious bullshit? STOP IT! Stop the insanity.

I think Guns in America is the schism of damocles dangling over the heads of the those on the left in the days to come.

Just a stray thought caroming around on the bumperpool table in what I delightfully and fancifully refer to as my mind.

ET-
I think religion in the campaign is important in the sense that it gives us a chance to figure out who is really tolerant of [religious] views that diverge from their own.

And, taking it a step further, of seeing if there is a positive correlation between intolerance and party.

And, one more step, in giving us insight on whether one part, or another, will more willingly accept _any_ ideas that depart from reality as parties have traditionally perceived it.

Ok Flatus I agree... I probably would have had a bit of favorable feeings for Powerpuff Girl had I not found out she belongs to a christian cult church that says they are speaking of "love" but in reality preach hate. Beyond that, religion should be a private matter and not part of our political/governmental processes or institutions. If this is what people want, then there should be active lobbying to make an official religion in the United States. Anything short of that, religious doctrine belongs in the personal faith beliefs of the people and not forced on the population at large.

bush says god is backing him up and approves of all he does and the religious right expects him to say that because they believe that. And they also believe that he hasnt gone even nearly far enough with his policies.......

it's kind of like the religious right doesnt care what bush/cheney do.......it's entirely most important whom they're doing it TO..............

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/obama-wins-debate-by-barely-lo.html#comment-151730

Flatus, It may be right for the children of the sovereign to serve. They may even desire to do so. Recently it was necessary to remove Prince Harry from front lines in Afghanistan, because his presence was an additional hazard to his unit since his identification made him a target.

Prince William will spend the next five years as a helicopter pilot. As yet, it has not been determined if he will be allowed to fly rescue missions, even though that is his desire because his presence could pose an additional hazard to others.

Random question here,

How could Obama usurp law enforcement for his means when the governor, who runs the state, has direct control?

Just like the McCain ad after the debate said Obama showed poor judgment because he agreed in some instances with McCain, doesn't this effort step on it's own toes?

Sturg, Dog, ET, et al.,--

Using pejoratives in defining others' positions, or of describing their personal attributes or appearance, seldom brings a change in others.

"Using pejoratives in defining others' positions, or of describing their personal attributes or appearance, seldom brings a change in others."

Hear, hear Flatus!

I would go even a step further, and say it accomplishes quite the opposite.

"...his presence could pose an additional hazard to others."

On the face, that seems a plausible rationale. But, he and his cohort aren't there to sell cookies or shake hands. So, I say, they should be permitted to perform the full range of duties for which they were trained--side-by-side with their mates.

Here is the TV coverage of the Missouri release. They are requesting that Missouri law against false or defamatory statements in political ads be enforced.

http://www.kmov.com/video/index.html?nvid=285793&shu=1

Someone have a problem with insisting that others speak the truth in political ads?

Lao Tzu believed that the ideal way to direct events was to use methods that do not create resistance or elicit counter-reactions. In observing the laws of nature, he realized that excessive force in a particular direction tends to trigger the growth of an opposing force, and that there fore the use of force cannot be the basis for establishing a strong and lasting social foundation.

--R L Wing

flatus......you mean like that?

"flatus......you mean like that?"

Indeed.

Flatus

All reports were that he was really pissed and wanted to stay with his men, but senior officers made the decision for the security of others because of the nature of the urban warfare fighting and if he were kidnapped by some group outside of local government, it could interfere with the mission .

It wasn't special treatment because he was third in line for the throne. British nobility have served in all wars and many have died doing so. I agree that they should continue to serve. They should also obey orders, which Prince Harry with a lot of grouching did.

Bear
By declaring a Federal State of Emergency. Part of the whole FEMA thing

And now an important message vis-a-vis the American Cancer Society

October 2008
National Breast Cancer Awareness Month
National Mammography Day (Oct. 17)
International Brain Tumor Awareness Week (Oct. 26 - Nov. 1)

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/obama-wins-debate-by-barely-lo.html#comment-151752

Tom
I have so much agreement with your post! Thanks for going out on a limb and saying it.I love Europe,my times there were memorable and fun,no trash...............

blackwater is standing by in case of emergency........

Jamie,

They were also fearful that his presence was jeopardizing the safety of his unit since they were then a bright flashing target for the insurgent elements in Iraq.

Rosie,

Thanks for your reply but I am not sure I see how Obama could get a Federal state of emergency declared though.

Jamie, Bear-

This is what's about (IMO):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z399i_PksfU&feature=related

Thank you Tony... you are sweet.

Oh and on the health issue, please remember it's coming into FLU season, so if you are a member of an "at risk" population, please get your Flu shot !

People who should get vaccinated each year are:

Children aged 6 months up to their 19th birthday
Pregnant women
People 50 years of age and older
People of any age with certain chronic medical conditions
People who live in nursing homes and other long-term care facilities
People who live with or care for those at high risk for complications from flu, including:
a. Health care workers
b. Household contacts of persons at high risk for complications from the flu
c. Household contacts and out of home caregivers of children less than 6 months of age (these children are too young to be vaccinated)

http://www.cdc.gov/FLU/protect/keyfacts.htm

Katherine,

Thanks for the outline of the proposal--will be interested in the actual language---as with the assistance to homeowner's provision--which is as you say "lipservice", it seems that the so-called crackdown on executive compensation clause may also be lipservice consisting of "qualifiying" words--subject to wide interpretation.

And as previously mentioned-forget about the cram down provision--that was always a throwaway.

Will be interesting to see if the candidates vote for it or not.

Katherine,

Thanks for the outline of the proposal--will be interested in the actual language---as with the assistance to homeowner's provision--which is as you say "lipservice", it seems that the so-called crackdown on executive compensation clause may also be lipservice consisting of "qualifiying" words--subject to wide interpretation.

And as previously mentioned-forget about the cram down provision--that was always a throwaway.

Will be interesting to see if the candidates vote for it or not.

"All reports were that he was really pissed and wanted to stay with his men, but senior officers made the decision for the security of others because of the nature of the urban warfare fighting and if he were kidnapped by some group outside of local government, it could interfere with the mission ."

Jamie, I think most military people rejected that argument simply on its lack of merit. He was a forward air controller calling in strike missions. He wasn't in garrison in an urban area.

For the USAF people responding to his missions, he was described as being a competent FAC who had his stuff together.

Jamie, and added thought. If anyone should have held him back, it should have been the PM and only because the monarchy lacked a spare.

Sorry for the double post, it said too many postings than it re-posted itself.

Bear,
depends on the emergency. Right after 9-11 everyone in just about everyone in America was willing to give up EVERY freedom we had in order to feed safe. Every good tyrant knows a scared people are easily lead. M. Moore's big case. A nation of fear.

OOPS! Sorry about the babble. It's only 8:30 in AK time and I'm on my first cuppa.

blackwater was very active in post-katrina new orleans.......

wonder what the head of Blackwater's view is on Sarah Palin's church............

Coreen

Both Obama and McCain say they will vote for it.
Obama on the Sunday talk shows is saying McCain gets no credit for working on the solution. I'm not sure that's smart.
The bailout sucks. The big payouts are still going to be paid, there is no standard for the setting the prices for the distressed securities and no indication that it will shore up the economy. In two years, whose judgement will we be praising for NOT voting for the bailout.

The media once again has failed. They never questioned the claim of the emergency and they uncritically report the claims.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/obama-wins-debate-by-barely-lo.html#comment-151785

Oh there are plenty of spares. If your name is on this list, everyone above you gets their chance first. :-)

http://www.britroyals.com/succession.htm

dont suppose obama will have much access to blackwater..........if he did, BW's point probably would be to sabotage whatever he's trying to do.......

Julie - it appears that more info is out there by now.

As I said, if they try this kind of thing they'll get caught, and he's well caught. I'm not sure he's even wrong, but he is making himself look wrong. Obama, that is. He'd better get some people out there really fast to clean this up cuz now he's opened a can of worms.

To my mind, most political ads are slightly over the top on all sides. If all Obama says is enforce the law, that's one thing as it would apply to all. But trying to get local governments to judge each and every ad is....maybe a little like running crying to the teacher? I suspect that attitude reflects the small town campaign philosophy he has.

What were those prosecutors doing, talking like his staff?

Well, as I said, I'm not enamored of him and still will vote for him - and I think the governor is hysterical. If he had to send out something, why wasn' t he specific?

Sturge & Flatus - my feelings weren't hurt. I enjoyed the info you got from wiki. I looked him up, too, and found another story about his being some kind of scientist who left the poem lying around for a friend to find. I favor the first story- I always sensed he meant it when he said "I loved you even then." Very romantic thoughts in that.

Landrieu is 'coasting' in LA - I thought she was in trouble. Good for her.

Don't ever underestimate to power of Evangelical ideals up here. This is one of the most conservative states outside of the deep South. Less than a month ago we had out primary elections for congress and the senate. Ted Stevens won by a landslide. Exit polls showed that 60% of voters cared that Uncle Ted was under indictment for corruptions. It's a big little state up here.

Coreen

I don't know if these guys can be of help tp your clients but it sounds like they are renegotiating mortgages with the help of the banks

http://www.boston.com/news/education/higher/articles/2007/04/11/washington_sees_housing_woes_worsening/

http://www.naca.com/index_main.jsp

I mean they didn't care about the indictment. Geeze, maybe I should go away until my second cuppa. Hey Sturge, Maybe Wackenhut can pick up any of the slack that is left by Blackwater.

i remember when i was growing up'watching the
news walter cronkiite would end his newscast
by say '' thats the way it is'' now they should end
by saying' ' thats the we want you to see it''
they should run a disclaimer before the broadcast
like they do with those infocommercials
'' the opinions and viewpoints of this program ect. ect.

The round table discussion on This Week was excellent. It was funny to here Robert Reich and Newt Gingrich agreeing on necessary infrastructure investment.

Great line from Reich along the lines o, "Newt you are morphing into a liberal right in front of my eyes".

hey euro tom
i was just doing a little friendly agitating'trying to get
you stirred up first thing in the morning
sorry about that' it won't happen anymore

Obama campaign should then practice what they preach. If they do not like political ads against them, they should desist in putting out bad ads about McCain and Palin. One of the McCain ads shows him just after surgery when his face was really swollen and he looked terrible. I do not know which Palin ad that the Obama campaign put out and first claimed it was not them, then when confronted they admitted it was. This was on just a day or so ago. He can sure dish it out, but he can't take it. Is that it?
It is the free speech suppression, and the squads which are definitely like the german youth squads of Hitler.. that I oppose..
Have you noticed that the supermarket line has all these sleeze mags with stuff about, McCain,Palin and Biden. But not one thing about Obama. Suppression of free speech again?

Play "Asteroids" again.......

http://games.atari.com/arcade.php?game=asteroids#

"about a TRUTHFUL ad being yanked "

truthful and tasteless sometimes go hand-in-hand

smart move by msnbc by pulling the ad
now they will do several stories on why they
had to and was it justified or not' all the while
showing the ad over and over''
now no one even has to pay for it to be on the air

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hGvQtumNAY

Truth? Do you think we can handle it?
The Financial crisis is about to get a bandaid - lets find the cause

OUTRAGE is where we all should be and the likes of all those that pushed the housing practice over fiscal responsibility should be out, almost to the point of criminal. And those that knew but complacent – OUT. This includes Barney, Chris, Nancy – Bush…..

The more that is learned the more anger. This is a greatest threat second only to terror. What these idiots allowed (regardless of ignorant or purposeful) must be held accountable.

The cleaning of 2006 fat cat republicans must now be followed by getting the lowest rating congress kicked out. LOSERs is what they are making for us all.

I could even live with Barack with a clean congress. But he is so tied and behold to those criminals that it will never happen

The Media and Entertainment outlets are so caught up in BS that they are of no help.
We can not allow any possible practice by the Federal Government to interfer with or promote sound fiscal policy of the Free Enterprise FUNDAMENTALS which are sound until the FED steps in

Barack must come clean - and stop the distorations. Problem is you would not vote for a responsible Barack. He is shifting as he learns - but not fast enough.
He must DUMP the DEM Congress - but this is the hand that feeds him

This financial crisis is no laughing matter - and our responsibility is fo find the truth. Problem is there are few outlets IF ANY that assist.

I agree that the Bush and some republicans did not stand up to the Democratic Political Correct policy, everyone was happy that all are getting houses, that cash is flowing. Bush even took credit for all the good that came from these failed policies.

Then when some realized the danger - Bush, McCain and as Barack now such claims - they let the likes of Barney and Chris win the day. Bush was push over to allow this to happen. Go back to 2003 and see the early signs that the DEMS pushed away.

Get the facts - these are policy with good intentions but long term failure these are counter to the Fundamentals of our Economy.

What the Hell has the Dem Congress done the last 2 years --- NOTHING

They want to allow FAILURE to help their cause.

That is sick

KGC - This was forwarded to me. It's about adog which will be destroyed next sat if not adopted because she is "too old." I can't take her but thought you might know someone who could. Sorry if this is pushy - just trying to get the word out. She is black and white and pretty.

PLEASE HELP
or crosspost if you can't help - VERY SWEET - loves people, dogs and cats are fine too! The only reason poor ladybug will be euthanized on Saturday is because she is "older" - although in great shape.
PLEASE someone, help this great dog. If anyone can help, please let me know and/or contact the shelter, Ed or Cathy at 707-565-7103.

I met Lady Bug, briefly today, and she seems nice and curious. Seems to have life in her. She really took to one of the staff and kept jumping up to see her over the counter.

Now, I have a week on Lady Bug.

She came in as a stray. We are guessing she is about 11yrs, lab/border collie mix. Temp tested with cats and dogs and is fine. Actually is mellow but lively, if that makes sense. Our vet has not yet looked at her, and we will try and have him do so on Tuesday to see if there is anything we should know, but the quick assessment says no major issues, just typical older dog. The owner came in to get dog, fee's were very high, we told her we just needed $8 which a stranger gave her, to get dog out and we would bill for the rest. She chose to get the $8 back and not get the dog back because she did not want to be billed.

Due to age, and not wanting to let the dog sit in a kennel unnecessarily, I have a week to get the dog out. Next Saturday the dog will be euthanized, that would be October 4.

If anyone can help, please let me know and/or contact the shelter, Ed or Cathy at 707-565-7103.

Thanks in advance.

Dog,
I am not blaming the Dems, I want all to be held accountable - As we know many of the republicans already got theirs in 2006.

So lets remove the names and look at the policy as both Dem and Rep are to blame. What is the failed policy? Which Candidate for President support this pracitice?

Anyone catch this story. It was in our local Sunday paper . Interesting read about elderly and Race.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-elderly-racism_wittsep24,0,5158304.story

Brain,
What is your understanding of the Fundamental economic issues which create this crisis?

What is the underlying policy that is failed?

Thanks for that link, Rez. It's nice to see that it's a generational thing that, if the trend continues, will be a thing of the past during this century.

what is chris dodd 's job as chairman of the
senate banking committee

what is barney franks'job as chairman of the
house financial services committee

oversight ''' oversight
2 years is a long time
they acted like the just came in last monday
and discovered everthing was a mess

Yeah Flatus, if any of those psychology studies are accurate, then some things begin to make sense.

'brain'
not a republican or democrat''' you never
answered the question '' what are dodds and franks
jobs'
if i did my job as well as they have done thier's
i would be unemployed tomorrow

Today on blistersyeahbutchannel

A failure to learn

95% of America is opposed to the bailout.
Why Democrats are Charlie Brown and
Republicans are Lucy

"An oversight board will be created. The board will include the Federal Reserve chairman, the Securities and Exchange Commission chairman, the Federal Home Finance Agency director and the Housing and Urban Development secretary"

http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/28/news/economy/Sunday_talks_bailout/index.htm?cnn=yes

What BS. THAT'S for what they fought all week?!

Rock that Tao, Sturge!

Why Democrats are Charlie Brown and
Republicans are Lucy

Posted by: blistersyeahbutchannel | September 28, 2008 4:02 PM

I guess that makes the American people the football.

blistersyeahbutchannel

a cartoon for your afternoon's entertainment

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ebpod5LqFts

So what are your plans for after the election when your existence becomes even more irrelevant than it is now?

And Bush and Rep allowed this to happen.

Brain - are there any Dems that you feel have been wrong and accountable?

I have clearly stated objection with many Republicans and they have been wrong. Bush has been complacent at best to this point.

NO ACCOUNTABILITY

What Nancy P, Harry R and George Bush tried to get passed last week is criminal. They all 3 plus Barney fife Frank, Chris Dodds must go

Another SNL-Palin skit. If you just listen, it's amazing.

http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/couric-palin-open/704042/

tt

Imagine this, the Obama campaign bullying someone. What a shock.

"Silencing Critics Using the Barack Obama Method: Ann Woolner
"If you value free speech, the proper response is to say yes, thanks, when the radio host invites your campaign to send someone to debate the enemy on the air.

Obama's campaign declined."

"And yet, shouldn't the campaign rebut these allegations in the venue where they turn up? ......
Instead, it tries to shut them up."

"....candidates who want to side with truth and free speech simply can't go around urging their supporters to badger those who write unpleasant, even untrue, things about them....The Obama campaign bullied CNN and Fox TV out of airing....'"
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&refer=columnist_woolner&sid=aPpNDefWKbi4

Lehman Brothers was an economic 9/11
"For if September 11, 2001 was the day that we had to reassess our ideas about America's role in world politics, September 15, 2008, the day Lehman Brothers went bankrupt, may well be remembered as the day we had to reassess our ideas about America's role in the world economy. It's that cataclysmic, that decisive, that irreversible."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/09/28

Brain,
I do vote Dem at times... But not yet this time.
We need Accountability, We need Balance

"Hope" is about the best you can do.

Ping
I thank you for comments.You have given this life long Dem (until last Feb.) much to think about. I'm sure there's is enough blame to go around.I wish I could blame the Republican's for all this country's ills but that's certainly not going to help get are problems fixed.I think your so right, there needs to be accountability something that has been sorely lacking from the 8 years of Bush Hell!! I remember Hillary saying" it took a Clinton to clean up after the first Bush and its going to take a Clinton to clean up after the 2nd Bush"! I guess we will have to settle for an Obama...........

Congressman Dennis Kucinich.
"I won't be just voting no [bailout} I'll be voting
Hell No!"

RGE Monitor was founded in 2004 by a prestigious team of economic and political experts. Today, thousands of senior managers at first-tier public and private financial institutions rely on our insights. Our clients include prominent asset managers, hedge funds, commercial banks, investment banks, policy organizations and universities. Thanks to our innovative content and services, RGE Monitor has been named one of the world's best economics websites by BusinessWeek, The Economist, Forbes and the Wall Street Journal.

Their take on why the bailout is the wrong policy.
http://www.rgemonitor.com/roubini-monitor/253783/is_purchasing_700_billion_of_toxic_assets_the_best_way_to_recapitalize_the_financial_system_no_it_is_rather_a_disgrace_and_rip-off_benefitting_only_the_shareholders_and_unsecured_creditors_of_banks

correct link from 5:38 post

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/09/28/do2802.xml

Rep Marcy Kaptur said there was hearing with dissenting economists at 2:00PM today.

Any news on that?

There was at least one republican supporting the bailout, but both D's and R's were strongly against it. And angry.

But the fear of economic meltdown is being ratcheted up, so who knows what the vote count will be. This reminds me so much of the AUMF vote, runup to the Iraq Invasion, the initial Patriot Act fear mongering, the FISA threats--and this one's going to cost Big Time, as Cheney would say.

The Democrats will never have as much leverage as they have right now to help the middle class American homeowner as they have this instant. They have chosen, however, not to use it for fear of offending the people who have run the economy into the ground..

Running on the promise to help in the future when they specifically rejected the opportunity to help now will not convince many voters, not even us low information voters who used to think the Democratic Party was our party.

It looks like the Palin gamble is backfiring. If McCain is going to dump her, he should do so soon. The debae this week should tell the story.

AUMF, We're all low information voters nowadays.

Partners at the Destruction
Fannie, Freddie and just about everybody.
"We will look back on the failure of Congress to reform the government-sponsored enterprises at the heart of the mortgage meltdown as one of the most expensive derelictions of its duty ever. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac used their lobbying clout, political contributions and even charitable largesse to charm or bully anyone demanding reform in their lending practices."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122257274028583113.html

John Kerry continues to be a better advocate for Barack Obama than he was for his own candidacy in 2004.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aH5R1s5_w5E

Nancy P said the party is over-----No it just keeps changing houses, as long as the country is taxed to death,(literally. As long as we have the tax structure that is in place now, we will always have financial crises that the public will pay for, the two party system assures this. A national sales tax would look good to me.

Sturg

Thank you for the Ancient History Source Book link, I love it along with all the sources within.

KGC
thank for the link on HOLC---it's too simple of a solution for anyone in DC they need to keep it complicated, in order to keep us in the dark.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-elderly-racism_wittsep24,0,5158304.story

Rez,

Maybe it has something to do with location. The Senior Center where I go is probably 45/45 white/black with another 10% of various other ethnic group.

These people eat together, play cards and games together, attend classes of all types together, hold fashion shows and monthly dances.

Not once in years have I head even a mildly negative word and the book club I lead has tackled some books that could make sparks fly if the ladies didn't respect each other.

I wonder if this demographic has been broken out by geography? The support of Clinton by the whites of this age doesn't surprise me simply because she is more moderate in positions than Obama. All the black ladies were swooning over Obama and planning to vote for him, but even they thought he needed to get a rein on some of his more left leaning ideas. Now everybody is on the Obama band wagon except for some of our old soldiers and I think it is the military record more than the man that has them leaning towards McCain.

Solar Crete

A national sales tax is the most regressive and unfair tax that there is. If you think the rich are well off now, pass that and watch people start to die in the street.

All expenses as a per centage of income are more expensive the less income you have. A sales tax would just aggravate an already existing inequity.

The Nikkei is just about to open if anyone wants to keep an eye on the graph

http://www.nni.nikkei.co.jp/CF/FR/MKJ

Jamie

An altruistic factor should always be considered, I just like the idea of the rich paying a sales tax that can not be written off thru loop holes that exist in the laws that they are the only ones that can take advantage of, yes let make sure that we can take care of each other.

Jamie

One of the most regressive taxes that exists now-----when a worker is laid off from work, and that worker collects a unemployment check, they are taxed 100% for that check. Reagan started this---no Dem, ever talks about this--why,I just think that in the debates O should include this info--this is as middle class as you can get-----I know that I have said this before, I won't say it again, but it drives me crazy, most of my workers start off the new season in debt to their employer because they have asked for loans when they are laid off. Don' you D's care about this????

Solar Crete

Unless that sales tax covered every single stock trade, interest payment, inheritance, service of every conceivable kind, the poor would and middle class would carry the heaviest burdern.

Actual survival expenses just aren't that wildly different. Oh the rich are more comfortable and the products they buy more expensive, but as a percentage of their total income, it amounts to next to nothing.

Then there is the problem that the poor and middle class pay more for everything than the wealthy. if you live in a ghetto and the closest super market is miles away and you have to go to and from on the bus just to shop it is more expensive. Oh you can shop for subsitence, unhealthy foods at the local 7/11 at twice the price of the supermarket.

Now the rich can buy a cow for the freezer ... brings the price of meat way down.

You name the product the poor pay more. Want a car, call your buddy from Rotary and pick one up cost + a little for a cash deal. Want a house, call your bank, he'll get you a cash deal or a nice fixed interest and let you know if there is a foreclosure going cheap.
0% on your credit cards since you pay them off every month

And on it goes. It is down right cheap to be wealthy.

The Left and Right Converge

The bailout and 2010 by kos

It's no secret that around these parts, we are in the process of transitioning from "more Democrats" (mission accomplished!) to "better Democrats" (mission has a long way to go). To that end, there is going to be a major push to primary bad Democrats in 2010. We'll want many Donna Edwards-type candidates holding our worst, out-of-touch and bought-off Democrats accountable to the constituents that elected them to office.

...But it's not just our side. On the Right, the Club for Growth has steadily ratcheted up its efforts in recent cycles, and this year, ousted GOP Rep. Wayne Gilchrest in MD-01 and came within 300 or so votes of taking out Don Young in Alaska (where they spent nearly $1 million). Any Republican that votes for this bailout bill will be begging for a Club primary challenge in 2010, and I suspect more conservative institutions will be eager to join that effort.

On both sides, challengers and money won't be a problem. DC continues to underestimate the anger this bailout is generating outside their little bubble.

Anyone who votes for the bailout will face opposition from the netroots?

Rez - I just read the link you provided re racial bias and the elderly. The article didn't go this far, but I wonder if the same tendency shows up in elderly blacks, especially against whites. If it does, it doesn't seem likely to go away soon if this occurs naturally as people age.

I think it's an interesting theory and probably partially correct, but i can think of many other possible contributing factors.

Churchill is supposed to have said that you're a fool if you are not liberal when young and conservative when old.

My experience with the elderly (myself included) has not been so - but then, I haven't known as many people as a researcher might have studied.

Got this email a few minutes ago. Some of you might like to sign.

http://www.ppaction.org/campaign/palin_openletter/in63dudrh83wkex?qp_source=palin%5fopenletter%5fe1

Jamie

Once again I agree to all that you said, to a very large extent the examples that you put up, that would hurt the poor already exist. I work a lot on the south side of Chicago,and can tell you that a lot of people go and come back on the bus already to do their shopping. They truly are in the position that is not of their doing, whats the answer?

I sold new cars and trucks (worst job I ever had--could not sleep after selling them) We--the owners always did back room deals with the rich for cash. I do understand what you are saying, but it would be nice to see the IRS become extinct, along with the back and forth of today's politics about the taxes, thanks

Dig in and get some interesting facts and correlations.
I have not finished but a very intersting connection is the HIPPA act which gives children privacy privledges as an adult even from their parents. This is simply wrong and another invasion of the Federal Government to take over my parental rights.

Check the stats - when did teenage preg increase? When the Federal Gov't told them they can be sexual active and we will protect you like an adult.

Wrong message - This should be challenged if not changed problem is you have so many liberal judges

hey euro tom
i was just doing a little friendly agitating'trying to get
you stirred up first thing in the morning
sorry about that' it won't happen anymore
Posted by: mqw | September 28, 2008 12:57 PM

If it's friendly, I'm ok way it mate...

:-)

Ping Pong

I would guess that teenage pregnancies without getting married started increasing with the birth control pill. Boys figured it was the girl's "fault" and stopped taking responsibility.

Society was changing in that respect long before the Feds stepped in. The trouble with government is that the solutions are proposed to fix a symptom not the root cause.

The increase in divorce, dead beat dads, single supporting adult families, and both parents working even in two parent homes probably causes more teenage pregnancies and abortions than anything the Federal government has done.

Ping - I agree that false and twisted statements should not even exist. Which statements are false and which twisted?Do you know if any statements are true? From what I've read and heard, they are certainly close to the mark - do you know how close? I am asking because I do not know the answers and hope you do. It is an interesting topic.

Do you know if her pastor actually suggest replacing jews in business with christians?

For what it's worth, this link alone would never have made a difference to me. Sarah Palin did that with her own mouth. As my sister said, it was plain flat mean of
McCainto put her on the ticket.

If I hadn't already made up my mind, I would have checked on how close to the truth the statements are.
If they were close enough, it would have made a difference.

I think people hear so many suggestions and innuendos that they kind of set them aside, and eventually they have a whole set of things they've been told - mostly because the media goes on to the next
"big story" and stops promoting today's "big story."

If the statements are false and/or twisted, I think it's up to her - and Obama - to re-state her/his true position and do it time and time again. This truth squad business is ridiculou, and does not make Obama look good. To expect lawsuits to determine the truth and fairness of every claim made by politicians is exponentially more silly than mulling over hanging chads.

So, sorry if it offended you, but I think it's a pretty fair image of her beliefs, and I don't feel guilty or sinful or dis-honest or dirty or ashamed or evil or disgusting or apologetic for linking it. I'm not sure if there are false and twisted statements in any of the links you have posted here, but surely the strong possibility exists - but, hey, link away.

Kevin Phillips ... This is definitely worth the read:

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=bubble_and_bail

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/09192008/transcript2.html

Please forward on to your friends...

I read Kevin Phillips' excellent book "The Politics of RIch and Poor" in my first quarter of my Master of Public Administration program. Profound stuff. He is one "republican" I can totally respect... of course...

Kevin Phillips (born November 30, 1940) is an American writer and commentator, largely on politics, economics, and history. Formerly a Republican Party strategist, Phillips has become disaffected with his former party over the last two decades, and is now one of its harshest critics. He is a regular contributor to the Los Angeles Times and National Public Radio, and is a political analyst on PBS' NOW with Bill Moyers.
Phillips was a senior strategist for Richard Nixon's 1968 campaign, which was the basis for a book, The Emerging Republican Majority, which predicted a conservative realignment in national politics, and is widely regarded as one of the most influential recent works in political science. His predictions regarding shifting voting patterns in presidential elections proved accurate, though they did not extend "down ballot" to Congress until the Republican revolution of 1994. Phillips also was partly responsible for the design of the Republican "Southern strategy" of the 1970s and 1980s.
The author of fourteen books, he lives in Goshen, Connecticut, in Litchfield County.

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