Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Woo-hoo!

If Obama made a mistake it was the he was too polite to McCain giving him credit while McCain treated him like a punk trespassing on his lawn.

I am annoyed that he didn't snap back and say the war in Iraq, that you supported was doomed to poor planning and it took you 4 years and an election slaughter for your party before you spoke up against it.

I liked his calm. It made McCains obvious agitation and anger more prominant.

Obama remained Presidential......so I think taking the high road will benefit him. McCain made more juvenile faces, that will be sliced and diced for some humorous you -tube.

Make for such a better debate when the audience stays out of it.

To continue your analogy Craig, I'll opt for surgery by a doctor; not a lawyer.

Craig,

I know I'm out on a limb here. I don't think this race is close. If you can get a large crowd of young white kids cheering for Obama at Ole Miss ... the world is changing and the pollsters haven't changed their models enough to account for the oldsters dying off since 2004 and the coming of age voters increasing their percentage.

hatchet job
– (noun) a maliciously destructive critique or act:

Sounds more like McCain and his ax-wielding, moose killing partner.

Obama gave him too much credit...though i wonder what happens when they do the same to palin...that she doesn't know.

If you don't vote because you're concerned about compromising the perception of your objectivity, Craig, I wouldn't worry about it.

I think for those independents that really are looking to this for an idea of who to vote for I think it was great for Obama because he was smart, informed and presidential..and many people haven't seen him like that.

Sadly, however, I think most people that do not know who they support aren't even watching.

Where's Sarah for the follow-up? Speaks volumes

Early chatter on the blogs is that McCain gaffed by calling Pakistan a failed state...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-bergmann/major-gaffe-mccain-said-p_b_129780.html

Champ,
To respond to our comments. Believe it or not there are many people (voters) who themselves don't know who is the Prez of Russia, so seeing Obama discuss it with such fluency is a winner. Low bar/expectations for him. People will feel better about him.

Didn't that debate look like a wash to anyone else.

hatchet and scalpel

Hatchet - can be used by anyone no skill require

Scalpel - carefully used by the highly skilled

we've witnessed the hatchet job on America....how's that working out for us?

Once again, Dog, you seem to be operating under the assumption that all or most of "young" voters vote Democratic. May or may not be. I used to have the same assumption until 2004, when I became exposed to a large, vocal contingent of conservative youths.

Did anyone wonder how long it took for McCain to study the name of all the leaders in Eastern Europe that he dropped?

Was that one way he wanted to separate himself from Bush?

Did I really hear McCain say "horseshit" when Obama was talking?

boy they both seemed to be dancing around that bailout question. I wanted to raise my hand and answer it. I think they didn't want to give the wrong answer.

I understand your point, Rez, which may be valid, but I don't really feel Obama discussed it with 'fluency". Then again, I know who the president of Russia is; Medevevedvevdvevdvev.

Chloe,

I agree with you that it's a wash.

I think Obama was content to see what the McCain line of attack is and learn how to start swatting his shots in future debates.

I've heard that he's a strong poker player. Good poker players are calm and studious. They will feign weakness when they hold strong hands to lure you in and then bust you.

Jack Cafferty is in rare form talking Palin...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-bergmann/major-gaffe-mccain-said-p_b_129780.html

gergen (on CNN) stated that McCain needed a win and it was a wash.

Bear I agree, Obama should have not been so agreeable, he's a Dem, Mc. is An R Obama keeps agreeing, and McCain keeps reminding us that Obama does not understand anything. The economy should have been his choice of battle ground. It was a tie, how can they be tied with the mess that we find our selves in, this debate should not have mattered at all.

Good poker players are great liars, too, Bear. Might want to rethink that analogy.

I'm too lazy to pick up the remote to check fox and bbc america...what are they saying?

I'll believe it when I see it, Dog.

It has been pointed out that Obama referred to McCain as John and McCain referred to Obama as Senator Obama.

Wow, that's lazy. Back in my day, we had to climb up on the roof to change the channel.

Champ,

You are only lying when it come to representing the strength of your hand.

You make a valid point though Champ. If you're going to lie to me though, I want someone who can do it with enough skill that I don't know it...lol

BBC is doing some really in depth programming with Monty Python's Flying Circus.

Wow,

KO just ran the clip where McCain admitted that the US tortured prisoners in Iraq...wow...

Hell I thought the Russian Prez was BorisYeltsin. LMAO

CNN

Anchor: "I would love to have Sarah Palin join us tonight to get her perspective"

Panel Member: "Don't hold you breath"

"I think Obama was content to see what the McCain line of attack is and learn how to start swatting his shots in future debates"

Bear,
Obama has definitely improved his debate style. And you're right, he'll know more how to handle McCain in the future debates.

Did you see it as memorization more than anything else though?

Craig and room,

I remember that the main comments from the Kennedy v Nixon debates was that if you watched, Kennedy won since he looked vibrant and refreshed. Nixon won to those who only heard it.

It seems that the same can be true here?

If one focused on the visual, does McCain's constant facial gestures as if he were communicating with someone in the audience be a detraction?

Chloe,

No. Back during the primary, I accused him of "swallowing his briefing book". It was obvious memorization.

He's had time now and has internalized the facts to merge with his opinions. It's much smoother. It is easier to speak when you really know the material rather than just cramming and he has gotten much better.

I listened to the debate on the radio; it's better that way. Still sucked. As I said, Obama won the economic portion, McCain won the foreign policy portion.

I also thought it curious that McCain couldn't look his opponent in the eye. I know many people in small towns like to look someone in the eye when making a deal. Will that inability affect voters?

The term is "bluffing" it's a tactic and integral part of the game of poker.

Some live blogging over at the Andrew Sullivan site...

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/

And to clarify, by "won", I mean that they sounded as if they had an understanding of the issues at hand. Whether one agrees or disagrees with their stances is a different matter.

Obama was wearing a flag pin, McCain wasn't.

Hey Gordo, you better dig into that!

I watched the debate, first at a restauant and then at home with no sound and closed captioning on. That's about the only way to deal with these two..

The first 2008 Presidential debate appears to have helped John McCain more the Barak Obama. McCain, who has been in a slide for the last week, appears to have helped -- at least temporarily -- provide support for his campaign by his performance tonight.

As seen in the simultaneous Intrade.com trade-by-trade Presidential Futures Market contracts for both McCain and Obama during the course of the debate, it is clear that traders saw McCain's performance as better than Obama.

http://worldsofspike.blogspot.com

"If one focused on the visual, does McCain's constant facial gestures as if he were communicating with someone in the audience be a detraction?"

You know Bear, I'm not a McCain fan, but I like the expressions he makes. They tell me what he's thinking and feeling, and to me it just looks like honesty. I don't find it annoying at all. The reason I asked if you thought Obama memorized a lot of that stuff, is because he looked at the camera in the same way he does when he reads a teleprompter. He also did a lot of that thing he used to do in debates, which is to say 'I agree with John' (which used to be, I agree with Hillary) a lot of times

Hey Dog
Good evening! What you think is crapola is truth to me and you no its A-Ok...Hope you enjoyed the debate!!

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/mccain-drives-the-news.html#comment-151116

Chloe,Bear,Solar Crete
I agree its a wash! Obama good on the economy and McCain good on foreign affairs.Imo

Spike, I still think it was a wash. Neither one screwed up.

Sullivan on "Palin Getting Worse"

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/09/palin-is-gettin.html

Ron Paul/tonyb39 for prez 2008!

Craig, you call BO measured -- I call it boring, dispassionate and in over his head. McCain did a bang up job tonight and, I think, really rattled Obama. His trying to get a word in edgewise was hilarious. And as for McCain knowing all the names of the foreign leaders, he reads history books as a hobby, so he really knows what he seems to know and is not some doddering old fool like the media likes to portray him as.

Listening to the heads on Fox saying what a wonderful debate it was; I thought it was a bore.

"Obama good on the economy and McCain good on foreign affairs.Imo"

Yes Tony. And Obama has improved. And McCain kept his cool.

If someone has access to a time-stamped transcript, or if someone wants to rewatch the debate, the Intrade contracts took dramatic direction changes at 8:34 CDT and 9:11 CDT. It would be interesting to know what was being discussed at those times.

See the graph at http://worldsofspike.blogspot.com

Tony,

I thought a wash but for opposite reasons...

McCain and his surge orgy made him seem a little punchy...

Chloe, I don't think he seemed overly prepared. I make it a point to not watch the primary debates but Obama looked very relaxed for the first time I watched him in some detail...

As for the Kinninger thing...here is a link to Kissinger agreeing with Obama with regards to Iran...

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/09/kissinger-on-en.html

Spike,

do the red dots on your chart represent actual prices or just major movements?

Oh Champ
Your so Funny...I'd make history,I think? A gay VP...HA!

Oregon, If you're still here, did you see my apology to you the other day?

Well spike, I think around :34 McCain was sounding like an idiot regarding heath-care credits, and around :11 McCain was talking about Georgia and it's role as an energy conduit. Don't hold me to it, though.

I will give McCain credit for turning it around enough to even be considered a draw, because he was getting hammered on economic issues and offered only trivial idealist-type responses.

It looks like the long primary season, and the debates with Sen C. helped O to keep this one a tie, Sen C should be thanked now.

Don't laugh so fast, tony. Why do you think they call her "Sarah Barracuda"?

"...I'd make history,I think? A gay VP"

Why not Tony. I'd vote for you. :)

Biden just said McCain has been "lurching" all week. That's a good word but "careening" might be more descriptive.

Chloe..no, but I'll go back and look..thank you..no apology necessary..

Did anyone wonder why Obama didn't point out that McCain was against allowing spent nuclear fuel into the state of Arizona because he feared for his states safety?

There was an article in this weeks Fort Worth Weekly where someone living close to a nuke plant was commenting on all the people and farm animals dying and having deformed offspring living so close to the plant...

Bear
I agree regarding Obama being relaxed.I actually for the first time liked Obama.I especially liked hearing from him about his father. Nice touch..

I thinks its telling that Biden said he won't do the same condescending crap that McCain did...

Oregon, You don't need to do that.
I just wanted you to know that I misinterpreted what you said and for that I am sorry. I appreciate that you took the time to explain what you meant to me.

Obama desperately needed a knock out, he didn't get it, therefore McCain won tonight.

Champ,

Why did you think there was a desperate need for a knockout for Obama? The consensus was that since McCain was foreign policy expert, he needed the better night...

Shhhh, Bear...play along.

CNN is talking about the polls following the debate. Tomorrows headlines will be that Obama won. Apparently the numbers have him winning across all of the pollsters.

Ivy, I hope some time in the future you'll elaborate on that introvert/extrovert idea. I'm very interested in those types of things.

Craig,

If you're here have you or CQ had any poll feed numbers yet?

ohh...sorry...I was curious about your opinion that...lol

"Obama desperately needed a knock out, he didn't get it, therefore McCain won tonight."

What's your basis for that. NS is supposed to be JM's long suit. Obama's polling better. Sorry, sounds like BS to me.

Who cares what the headlines will say? If you watched or listened to the debate, make up your own mind.

damn you duped me Champ. I shoulda known better

Craig,
You nailed it.
McCain is the real change for Washington.
Obama is the one that has changed his stance the most. I kept waiting for McCain to take advantage of Obama and say - Oh so that is what you mean by the term change in your campaign.

Quick reviews after find Obama was the most lose on the key facts that he was trying to pin McCain.

Both did well.
Obama "appeared" to be knowledgeable.... and as such without the check of facts.... as George Will says tie goes to the lesser which in this case was Obama

All in fun. Enjoy the show; I'm done

The first that that struck me tonight...

McCain twice pandered to Democratic voters...first mentioning that Kennedy was in the hospital, though he was home already and by mentioning Sen. Clinton on something...

Obama mentioning that he's worked with Coburn and Lugar...I know Coburn is a flat earth type, but have there been any sitings of either Senator on the trail for McCain?

he slices through issues with the precision of a surgeon's scalpel with the slick tounge and oratory skills that do not let the facts or his history get in the way.
Give it time - these chickens will come home to roost

"Who cares what the headlines will say? If you watched or listened to the debate, make up your own mind."

Yes Champ, but it's still important to see what others say, not because it will affect our opinion, but because we know what the media thinks and says is going to drive the election one way or the other.

Bear
Ha Ha!! Usually no,but i suppose it depends...LOL
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/choose-your-weapon-hatchet-or.html#comment-151244

Chloe
Thanks for the vote! Should you decide to run for anything,I will take a break from my business and work any time to get you elected....HA! Every time I do the Ha! it reminds me of Patsi...I had a nice e-mail from her today and it really snapped me out of a funk...

Good night everybody..

From the tenor of Senator Smith's (R-OR) negative ads, he must believe that the polls are correct and he is losing to Democratic challenger Jeff Merkley.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/choose-your-weapon-hatchet-or.html#comment-151267

Champ

You care because the people who didn't watch the debate but who will be voting will wake up tomorrow and see headlines saying "Obama won". That is why you care. It may be spin, but it is spin that makes a difference.

Question:

Do you think George Bush is a hachet or a scapel man?

We need a change. Unadulterated confidence is not enough. Careful planning and composure is a much more effective way to govern - even if you lose points in a debate.

CBS News / Knowledge Network Undecideds Give Debate To Obama

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/09/cbs_news_knowledge_network_und.php

I hope that Sen O does something, say's something to once again stand out. I don't think that there is the same ( not much) enthusiasm about him as a black candidate as there used to be ( amongst Ind) he's just another politician now

Bear:

"If Obama made a mistake it was the he was too polite to McCain giving him credit while McCain treated him like a punk trespassing on his lawn."

This might not have been a mistake with the key voters. The CNN group talked about how the Independent line went way down when the candidates attacked each other.

(And again shows how Obama keeps his eye on the ball instead of reacting to the heat of the moment)

"Every time I do the Ha! it reminds me of Patsi.."

Me too Tony. If you talk to her again, tell her how much we miss her. I'm still hoping that she'll come back.

Chloe,

I'm glad it interests you too. I have to wonder why none of the cables have enlisted any "experts" on the topic. No tea leaf should remain unread! I will be observing closely to see if I can figure out their full types. Biden is for sure an extravert. An example of the extravert's extravert is Bill Clinton. Furthermore, the other indicators (e.g. "perceiving" vs. "judging") are just as important.

Bear,
You need to make sure to get the full understanding of the statement as you have joined Obama a gross error on Dr Kissinger statement.
Obama was wrong to try to get Kissingers statement to match. It is exactly as McCain stated - the direct negotations are with the front line AND NOT THE PRESIDENT TO PRESIDENT.

This was just another Obamination

"It may be spin, but it is spin that makes a difference."

Posted by: Jamie Author Profile Page | September 26, 2008 11:43 PM

Couldn't' have said it better myself. Thank you.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/choose-your-weapon-hatchet-or.html#comment-151283

Solar, That's what the campaign has been trying for. They want "content of character" not "color of skin" ... He needs to be seen as someone to trust rather than someone to fear and there is still that element within the population that would see him as scary.

Ping Pong:

We will see if Palin "appears" knowledgeable.

I found it interesting that McCain retreated to his core message re: "experience" and did not focus on his two-week old new message of change and reform.

I think it only brings into light that McCain went against his core principles and put politics first when he chose Palin.

(Unless of course you are willing to concede that McCain thinks both Palin and Obama have enough experience to be President.)

Live debate reaction
http://www.politico.com/arena/

Woooooie

CNN just gave the figures for 50+

O 48 M 44

Huge jump in the women's numbers as well for O

M still getting the men but by smaller amounts.

I think the winner of the debate to the average American will be whomever gets more soundbites out there, like these: http://www.entertonement.com/tags/clips/4273?sort_by=date

Ping Pong,

Since your statement "Chicken's come home to roost" are the domain of Malcolm X and Rev. Wright, those who don't know you would think you to be a Black Supremacist seeking to put down the white man with your comment...lol

I concede that Palin and Obama have equal ability.

Palin brings the living room to the white house. She brings main street to Penn Ave. She brings fresh air.

I say it again. I could support the dems if you clean the house as the 2006 did to the republicans. Those fat old politicians MUST GO.
The current governement - all of them - Nancy, Harry, George, .....

Bear
Ha Ha Ha..... You may never know.... However being of the south this term like grits, greens and fried chicken in truth belong to all

Wow,

Great research noting that McCain's statement about the 2 Ike's letters was BS...the second Ike letter was explaining the failure of the invasion

http://www.archives.gov/education/lessons/d-day-message/

Brain,
Maybe loved by the transit I vote in NY South Fl group. Or do they vote in two places? A dem tradition... !! Now with a chicago connection.

I do not see South Fl for Obama - The Cuban population is much stronger. Martinez in Florida will help pull that. Problem with Charlie Crist is not as strong - at least I am very disappointed in Crist.

Ping Pong - I can agree to that.

I am not a fan of Nacy or Harry. Too partisan for me (although I guess - unfortunately - it is kinda in their job description).

Not sure who George is...

Change of subject -

Can anyone tell (and maybe explain) me details of the WAMU & JPMorgan 'deal' ?

I did not see the debate, and from your comments, I am SO glad.

Ping,

Don't get me going on soul food...found a restaurant that does soul food but they charge gourmet prices...smelled so good but I can't pay $20 for fried chicken and grits...etc

Bear,
Two letters yes,, Only a small error - he would not resign but he would take Responsibility for Failure.

This was the key point that McCain is making. He clearly stated that ACCOUNTABILITY will be a key in his administration.

A point made ONLY BY MCCAIN

"Furthermore, the other indicators (e.g. "perceiving" vs. "judging") are just as important. "

Ivy, It just seems that anyone running for President has to be an extrovert. I think the stuttering at times just means he's being careful about what he's saying, and doesn't want to say the wrong thing. And the perception and judgment thing is always important (and used), whether you're a fast talker or slow.

It all depends on whether you are watching a station that is favoring Obama or McCain. Fox has McCain winning 83-16 undecided 1%...
McCain people think he won, Obama people think Obama won..

where you be that they charge that much for grandmoms home cooking,

Make it yourself.... I will send you some stone ground creamy grits

Cracker Barrel !! It is pretty good for a chain.

On engaging Iran.

Despite the parsing and the gotcha specifics - the fact of the matter is that there is almost no possibility of successful diplomacy with Iran with McCain as President.

It may seem petty - but McCain has directly insulted or threatened the two Countries that a key to that process.

-"Bomb bomb bomb Iran"

-"K-G-B"

I think there is still time to deal with Iran diplomatically. Moreover, if we do need to use force - engaging in meaningful diplomacy first - will give us a real chance to build a coalition instead of going it alone again.

Obama gives us a much better chance on that front.

Good Night to all.

I close with this comment.
Obama did come up a small portion in my view. He is learning and adapting. I just cannot trust that he will be ready in time, and I do not trust his social policy

I'm not sure I can handle the texture of grits...plus I need to lose 20 to 30 pounds so in a choice between the grits and the chicken...I'm getting the bird...lol

Bethy

Short version, WaMu went belly up. All assets immediately assumed by JP Morgan. No danger to depositors all assets protected. Stockholders took a big bath and are very, very unhappy campers.

There may be a sell off at later dates of various branches to other banks, but that is all to be decided later.

warren can not let that go..

Libby?

Why the change - STRENGTH

McCain will talk - he has a vested position and if anyone understands the horror of war - it is John McCain

Damn, Tweety needs some spittle control. LOL

Libia.... it is late

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/choose-your-weapon-hatchet-or.html#comment-151311

Yes Julie. And Drudge thinks McCain won.
It all comes down to what biases the people went into the debate with. This election is all about the Independent swing voters now. The 'Party people' (political party, that is) already know who they're going to vote for, regardless of what happens in the next few weeks.

I laugh...as a black man, I get served right away at Cracker Barrel...lol

I love their Yankee Pot Roast there...but I can't eat it til it gets cold...just another reason to love the fall!

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/09/watching-with-t.html

Bear -- "do the red dots on your chart represent actual prices or just major movements?"

The red dots represent actual contract price points. The lines simply connect the contracts prices to make it easier to see the trends.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/choose-your-weapon-hatchet-or.html#comment-151310

Chloe,

I agree Presidents and would-be Presidents who have the introverted style have a harder time - more likely to be misjudged. Only 25% percent of the population have the characteristic; it is not understood or appreciated by the majority. It's an extraverts' world. I actually think George Bush is an introvert though it's not readily apparent.

Craig.

What are your thoughts?

"I laugh...as a black man, I get served right away at Cracker Barrel."

I can't remember for sure, but I think you said you're in Fort Worth??

The part of Texas I'm in, I don't see racism. I'm not naive, and I know there are people that are prejudice against ANYONE who is different than them (including different opinions). But when I hear statements like that Cracker Barrel statement, I just don't know why anyone would even say that.

Presidential Debate Post-Mortem: Live From Oxford

CNN/Opinion Research telephone poll went to Obama. Hearing that Luntz and GQR focus groups went to Obama.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/09/presidential-debate-post-mortem-live.html

Chloe, just curious, Are you a Texan? born and raised there.

"League of Democracies,"- John McCain

What the hell is that?

Ivy,
I can understand why it's an extroverts world. They speak up and they don't often take no for an answer. They're confident and they enjoy other people company. I would even say 'need' other peoples company.

But my favorite description (one I read a long time back) of what it means to be an extrovert vs. introvert is that the extrovert needs a lot more stimulation fro the company of others, where for the introvert, a little people companionship goes a long way.

It doesn't surprise me that you say that about Bush, because he shuts out other peoples opinions. We need a President who doesn't do that.

Now Bill Clinton is probably the most extroverted extrovert I've ever seen.

Chloe,

I always chuckle when I go to Cracker Barrel or Denny's because of their history's. I've never had a problem.

I agree that Texas has been friendly enough. The only time I've noticed anything resembling anything untoward are the Confederate action figures in the FW Stockyards...I just chuckle.

I have encountered the occasional bigot but they are so overt down here it makes it easy to steer clear, unlike in New England where you get a lot of closet racism...

Nooooo Rez.
Raised in Southern California.
I'm not a true Texan by any stretch of the word.
I'm much more liberal than many of them.

Nice Rogues Gallery

http://www.comcast.net/finance/bankceos/slideshow/view/

Thx Chloe, I didn't think so. I'm not either. Was born across the Red River from there

Rez,

Your link showed McCain won polling in WA tonight, even among indy's...

JP got 304bil in assets for 1.9bil. Pretty sweet deal...

Sorry to hear about that closet racism Bear (of course I know it exists). But I try to never deal with those people. I hope you realize that those people hate ANYONE who is different than them in ANY way. So it happens to us all, but I keep my distance from that type of person,

Chloe,

I wouldn't disagree, except to elaborate to say generally extraverts draw their energy from other people (get depressed by "alone time"), whereas introverts' energy is "drawn down" by others and they need alone time to recharge. How much or how little depends on whether you're in the middle of the continuum or at one of the ends.

"whereas introverts' energy is "drawn down" by others and they need alone time to recharge."

My lord Ivy. I always have to recharge when I'm around other people too long. I feel drained afterwards. What a great way to describe the two opposites (and everything in between).

I always call it regrouping, though. I say I need time alone to regroup (which is the same thing I guess).

Night.

"For eight goddam years we've been watchin' a monkey f*** a football." And so, Ron Bennington sum up the Bush presidency.
Obama really cemented his position as an imperialist , talking about a huge push into Afghanistan and again stating his staunch support for Israel. Now there have actually been times when the US has chastised Israel when they go overboard with the beating and killing of the Palestinians, but all I hear from Obama (and Palin) is total support for Israel, and Palin even said "anything they need to do to protect themselves" , when asked about an Israeli nuclear attack on Iran or anywhere else they felt like blowing up.
In my eyes, McCain made a fool of himself , beating the Iraq war drums, and calling for "victory", when there is no way a victory looms...it's totally out of control and will blow up the day the US leaves.
Also, I was TOTALLY offended at McCain and his smirk-smiles when Barack Obama spoke, trying to appear like a Reagan reincarnation....

Ping:

"McCain will talk - he has a vested position and if anyone understands the horror of war - it is John McCain"

That is a platitude that is not reflected in his current views of the world.

He thinks you must go out and "defeat evil", That is a tall order that is right in line with the Neocon philosophy.

You don't defeat evil through diplomacy - you do it through war.

(I actually think not throwing around the word evil - and talking about Countries in terms of their strategic interests would be a huge step in the right direction.)

Terrorists are evil. Some dictators are evil. Countries are not evil.

Does anyone know what the historical makeup of coattails are from the top of the ticket? I am trying to figure out a way to calculate late movement in some of the House and Senate races...

all very predictable '' if you like obama 'he won
if you like mccain well then he won
so obama will use a scapel to make minor
precision adjustments in washington
that's hardly the big 'CHANGE' agent he has been
selling himself off as
if your going to change anything in washington
forget all the small utensils'' you will need
a some dynamite

chloe - I am an extroverted introvert.

"if your going to change anything in washington
forget all the small utensils'' you will need some dynamite" mqw | September 27, 2008 12:51 AM

And a tank.

"I am an extroverted introvert."

I'm going to have to fall asleep thinking about that one. :)

chloe - you probably need time to recharge because you give out a lot of energy to others (instead of taking it)

Bear,

If you are looking for landslide with heavy coatails, you need national poll figures in the 55+ range.

For example LBJ got 61% of the popular vote.

FURRIN' POLICY........ I understand WHY they don't talk to people anywhere. If you were a republican would you want "dubya" talking to anyone?...............................

R.R.; 7:44 am previous thread ...................... "Wearable art". How absolutely great for you. Brings to mind Chagall and Mackie .......................................................

Jane; 3:49 pm previous thread.................. "disgusted at NBC news". The add was put together by Howard Dean's brother, who swears they never collaborated....

Toast; 5:18 pm previous thread ................... "interviews were blatantly unfair", as was the "View" appearances. McCain was supposed to solve the wall street mess right NOW - Obama was sexy............................................

Viv; 11:38 pm previous thread .......... "his supporters are the ones who scare me", you agreed with Champ about that, I agree with both of you and I'd like to add his wife is very, very scary.............................................

Chloe; 11:48 pm .................... I'm with you, I think we all miss Patsi and wish she would come back....................

The Debate ............... Oh, my God, neither one of these guys could get a pothole filled if they were running for city council.....Jeez, we are really in trouble..................

Rita.

"you probably need time to recharge because you give out a lot of energy to others (instead of taking it)"

Don't you think females tend to do that more than males Waren That's not meant as a sexist comment, just a yin yang sort of thing.

Bear -- "Does anyone know what the historical makeup of coattails are from the top of the ticket? I am trying to figure out a way to calculate late movement in some of the House and Senate races..."

Short answer -- It depends...

Jeff Greenfield did a piece on this in 2000...

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/04/19/greenfield/

Jamie:

The one thing about Obama's coatails is that you need to factor in the new voters and enthusiasim.

Palin excited the base - but that base was for the most part active voters.

I always look forward to your posts Rita.
Glad I caught it before I leave again.
Tomorrow.

Warren,

I was talking about total popular vote in the election. The winning side needs that 55+ victory preferrably 60+ to pull large coat tails down ticket because that means they have pulled both the base and a majority of the independent middle.

That type of election gives both the Presidency and a Congressional majority to the same party.

I agree chloe. And I agree and do not find it sexist.

I like to talk such things as feminine and masculine traits - which are found in both sexes.

I think it is more feminine to listen and seek empathize with those around you. Where as it is more masculine to speak first and try to set the tone.

Good Night All

It's all about the hormones.

Might it be different with Obama due to the race, newness, or "whatever" factor.

E.g. - if Obama wins with 52% - but has a smaller support from the Democratic base....

I am sure the PUMA crowd hates Michelle because they pounce on the unsubstantiated stories that there was some sort of "cat fight" between HRC and Michelle.

Such nonsense how these PUMA's will accept sexist BS in the media when it feeds their anger.

Those PUMA's need to get angry about what happened to our Country under GOP rule - instead of what happened in the Primary.

despite all the young obama supportors you've seen
on tv'' despite the large bloc of black voters
mississippi will still show up bright red on the map
come election night
that may change one day' but not this time around
gov. haley barbour will make damn sure of that

mqw...

Do you mean that Gov. Barbour will somehow cheat?

gov barbour is a very popular'everybody likes and
respects him in the state '' if he says ms will go
to mccain '' then it will

Bear,

I posted my link at 9:16 PST. It was updated at 9:21 PST when you looked at it.

Rez,
Your link showed McCain won polling in WA tonight, even among indy's... Posted by: Bear September 27, 2008 12:29 AM

I don't care what the headlines say because I don't watch debates and/or most political speeches. I like to hear that my candidate did well because that gives hope, to me.

I will vote for Obama because Mc has made it clear that he will nominate more Thomases and Scalia's.
The only thing Obama could do to lose my vote is become a strict constructionist and pro-church involvement with government. I am not happy with this faith-based situation, but it's still the court I worry about.

If Obama's inexperience causes problems, I think there are plenty of senior dems who would butt in. As for Palin and her inexperience, she hasn't a clue. It's been a long time since I've heard a person, an adult, talk the way she talked in her answer to Katie Couric.
I think she's perfect for state-wide office, a small, contained theater of action. It certainly does hinge on the prism we look thru - and I've discovered I must be an introvert (ha! considering I'm pretty loud!) and spend a lot of time alone. People like Palin have always thrown me for a loop.

If Obama turns religious, I'll re-evaluate and probably vote for Mc - but I don't expect that to happen.

Thanks for the info on Wamu.

Bethyboo
A very good honest opinion.

I heard the same thing about Hillary and not being able to keep her own house. But the one I did not like was when asked if she would vote for Hillary, she got such an ugly look on her face and you could clearly see she would have loved to have said no. But she said I would have to think about it. That to me was pure bitchyness , no gracious, of course I would, like Hillary had done before Michelle was ever asked.
I cannot like her either. In listening to her speeches when she was in the south to all black audiences, she clearly gave off signals that she does not like white people..

mqw...

Do you live in Mississippi?

Ignore the knotheads ITK

I'm b eginning to think that those of you who constantly engage with the iknotheads may be knotheads yourself.

Hi Harbor, Good to see you,

Craig, thanks so much. Your post was accurate in your assessment tonight.

It was a draw, but you know what they say about debates and the front runner....

YES WE CAN!

harbourw
yea i guess you could say that''i'm a tow boat pilot
spend 200 days a year on the mississippi river
but i go home to mississippi''
mqw are actually the initials of the boat i work on
on watch now n/b just south of baton rouge have 35
barges in tow destination' st louis

Julie - thanks for that validation and it's good that I finally said it and hope I was not nasty about it, just honest.

Actually I just now came back here to lament the fact
that having written that, I have no hope of sleeping tonight. I'm quite serious about that. I will re-write it and add and delete things all night, and toss and turn, and curse the fact that my real candidate isn't on the ticket - that's what I do when I get angry, and it's why I hate getting angry. I don't walk around being angry about it - it's just when someone catches me off guard
and I start to answer and before you know it I'm mad again. I do not want to re-live these things! You wouldn't believe what I wen thru when the Niner's traded Joe Montana! (I am NOT joking about that.)

The dem party needs to be united???? Michelle Obama needs to feel united with the other citizens of this country who are of different skin colors.

Bethyboo:

You know this election year has been one like has never been quite like it before. I probably got carried away today, but what I spoke was the truth and nothing else. And probably sounded snarky also. But the name calling of Hillary by Obama supporters was beyond the pail. Cannot see how Hillary can now campaign for Obama , when Michelle was so nasty to her and Obama was downright out of line with his race card against Bill. I know they are true democrats and she may want to run in 2012. But how in their hearts can they campaign knowing how they are hated by the Obamas. Not once, never did Obama say he was sorry to her..
It has been a nasty mean campaign. Cannot remember ever the msm being so blatenly biased for one candidate to the point where he was asked no questions at all that pertained to issues. to mind was first the the msnbc guy, that hated Hillary so, and then the same thing with Obama and Palin interviews by ABC, Gibson. The contrasts are so obviously slanted it is inexcusable. only 40/41 more days. I for one will be glad when it is over, either way.

someone should start polling the pollsters

most people don't have the time or patience to
play twenty questions with some dumbass
on the other end of the phone
besides you can get any results you want
depending on how you phase the questions

mqw

exactly.. good post
How is the night going on the river?

julie

julie
thoughtful of you to ask' pretty nice night not much
traffic tonight to deal with'for a change

mqw

How far north do you take your barges? Always the same route or do you get a variety? I lived at south Padre Island for about 7 years, and loved watching the barges go down the ship channel to Brownsville. But the bay was only knee deep in places, and if a barge ventured just a wee drop out of the channel, he was there for days until another came from Houston. Most fun was watching barges take the ocean oil rigs out of Brownsville to the gulf. They are humongous up close.
That was always a treat to watch.
julie

mqw...

Very cool work you do! I was asking if you lived in MS because that's where I grew up...born and reared in Meridian...but I've been away a long time. Have lived in the Pacific Northwest for more than 30 years now.

I still have friends in MS, some of whom are very torn over who they will vote for in November. I think it's going to be very interesting, but I'm sure you have a better idea of how things stand today in MS, given that you're there.

Thanks for telling about your work! It really does sound interesting to me...but I'm thinking Huck Finn...ah, the romance of the river....

julie
i run from st louis to new orleans with 30 to 35
barges'depending on river conditions
they have smaller boats that run from st louis to st.paul mn. and up the illinois river with 15barges
you can go to marquette trans .com
the company has got a web site that might give you
a idea of what i do' they might even have a picture of
the motor vessel 'marquette warrior' in there' a
7200hp towboat' we just dropped our southbound
tow of 30loads of grain this morning ''that was 48000tons of cargo'now we are headed back up with
15 loads and 20 mts

mqw

wow, sure sounds interesting . Will look at the website.
Thanks, nice talking with you. Getting late, have a safe trip. Night.

Julie

no one left awake ?
the euro trash should be up by now

who won the debate ? well i guess i did
i think the most important thing mcain said was
that it would be hard to run the goverment from
the far left'
mccain seems more like a independent centrist
than a republican' he does not even mention
abortion'' gay marriage'' religion' unless he is asked
a direct question about it'' not your typical rebuplican

Where's Sarah for the follow-up? Speaks volumes

Posted by: Rezdog | September 26, 2008 10:48 PM

The Powerpuff Girl was probably busy doing something important in the crystal meth capitol of Alaska, or doing covert surveillance of Russia from the comfort of her house...

Hatchet or scalpel

Ax murderer or surgeon...

boy they both seemed to be dancing around that bailout question. I wanted to raise my hand and answer it. I think they didn't want to give the wrong answer.

Posted by: ct | September 26, 2008 10:57 PM

heheheheh... great comment CT

If Obama turns religious, I'll re-evaluate and probably vote for Mc - but I don't expect that to happen.

Thanks for the info on Wamu.

Posted by: bethyboo | September 27, 2008 1:49 AM

Totally agree bettyboo!

Song from the '50s fits mccain perfectly :

First you say you do,
And, then you don't.
And, then you say you will,
And then you won't.
You're undecided now,
So what are you
Going to do ?

The 8 views of john mccain (on only one of the topics)
1. We need to deregulate our financial system 2.The economy's fundamentals are sound 3. I've gotta drop everything to rescue the economy 4. I can't come, Letterman, 'cuz I'll be on a plane, flying to the rescue 5. Hi, Katie, thanks for having me on 6. There's no time to debate until this economic crisis is settled
7. My thanks to the Ole Miss for hosting this debate
8. We need to regulate our financial system.

Flip, flop, flip, flop, flip, flop,flip, flop, flip, flop, flip, flop, flip, flop, flip, flop, flip

It's obvious that as president, john mccain would spend most of his time vetoing his own programs.

And, the beat goes on...flip, flop, flip, flop, flip, flop, flip, flop, flip, flop, flip, flop

Drums keep pounding rhythm to my brain...
La de da de dah... La de da de dey...

no one left awake ?
the euro trash should be up by now

Posted by: mqw | September 27, 2008 4:31 AM

You can stop calling me that. It simply shows how low class you can be... shame on you.

NEW THREAD...

mccain is fretting over $18 Billion in earmarks, but doesn't say a word about the nationalization of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae with debts of $9 TR!LL!ON. It's like making a fuss over a dime and while happily flushing five bucks down the john. Penny wise and just plain foolish.

republicans lost Viet Nam, and blew Lebanon Fiasco and Gulf Fiasco I. They engineered the Somalia Fiasco. republicans engineered the S & L crisis that cost $4 TR!LLION. They engineered the ENRON, WorldCom, and Tyco implosions. republicans engineered the failure of Bear Stearns, Fannie & Freddie, Lehman Bros, AIG, and WaMu with a total cost of about $10TR!LL!ON. The cost of our loss in Gulf Fiasco II will be another $4TR!LL!ON including taking care of all the soldiers w/head injuries for the rest of their lives. And, in Afghanstan, they are losing to the rats who caused 9/11. Total : 6 failed military adventures w/43,000 dead, plus $18 TR!LL!ON in debts ($60,000 for each man, woman, and child in America or $240,000 for a family of 4).

Obviously if we want more military defeats, and more financial disasters, we should vote for mccain and the republicans.

Throw all the bums out.