Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

but are the 8000 troops coming home or are they being redeployed to afghanistan or elsewhere?

Craig, you coulda knocked me over with a feather when I heard that on the news this morning - who couldn't have seen this coming??

[repost]

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/hillary-to-the-rescue-not.html#comment-141985

xr, you are probably right - no one even looks at the ships' cargoes before they dock, right? Now, throw that unopened bottle of Don Julio that you just bought in the duty free shop away in this trash barrel and proceed to screening line 6 - since you made your reservation to Orlando within the past week you have been "randomly" selected for enhanced screening.

you are correct to wonder that, patd -- in his speech this morning Bush talked about a "quiet surge" of additional American forces to Afghanistan -- not clear yet how many of those will be troops pulled out of Iraq or new deployments -- it could well be that between Iraq and Afghanistan there would be no net reduction, maybe even a net increase

That would just be coming home for some R&R , then on to our next war.

pat - here's a link to the Times article on the drawdown (I use the term VERY loosely).

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/washington/AP-US-Iraq.html?hp

It doesn't really answer your question, but the answer is both.

"...and who the heck is tweetie?"

nelson, tweet is chris the-tingle-up-his-leg mathews. or is that a trickle down his leg?

Obama reacts, wants more troops in Afghan than Bush does:

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CANDIDATES_WAR?SITE=CONGRA&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Pogo,
pogo,

"Shouldn't you be touting the effect on the economy instead of on government revenues if you want to sell tax cuts to Main Street - or do you equate the two?"

The deficit is $407 billion deficit, or about 2.9% of GDP. Just think if you only owed 2.9% on your Gross. Plus the good new is the GDP has grown 8% this year, despite all the bad news. Employment is down, but employment is a lagging indicator of how the economy is doing. Housing is down but has started to recover. Vegas, one of the largest area hit by the mortgage crisis is actually making progress with the sale of homes up 18% since Spring, they were down 26%. If you want a better sign of what the economy is doing look at New Durable Orders, http://www.census.gov/indicator/www/m3/. The economy doesn't go up or down over night and those whose who point to figures that were accumulated over the last 3 months of things going wrong need to take into consideration all the figures just not cherry-pick your favorites. Food and fuel prices are a major draw back for everyone, but that could have been controlled by Congress, but the D lead Congress rather have the problem than fix the problem. So much for thinking of the citizens of this country.

But you know pogo if you want to pay more taxes you can, there is nothing preventing you from doing so. So if you want to increase your tax bill by 10% that is fine with me, but I rather have that extra 10% to make it work for what I consider important to my family, not what DC believes maybe important. I don't need their Social Security and I don't need their medical plan. If you all think the government is going to provide you with such a great medical insurance plan, I would suggest you may want to look at the current status of Social Security and Medicare.

McCain Now Winning Majority of Independents
Majority of independents now prefer him over Obama, 52% to 37%
http://www.gallup.com/poll/110137/McCain-Now-Winning-Majority-Independents.aspx

Nelson, if you're still here, I tried to answer some of your questions at the end of the last thread.

What is the latest on Joe Scarbough of MOJO? When I tuned in yesterday and oday, he wasn't there. How has he been affected by the recently announced shake-ups at MSNBC? (I haven't diligently followed all of the posts for a few days.)

I think it was Zoey and Alicia that were talking about the large crowds last night.

McCain Campaign Crowds Grow Exponentially
The 'Palin Factor' Bringing Excitement and Bigger Crowds to McCain Events
"That kind of crowd just hadn't been seen at McCain's events before last week's Republican convention. "
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=5755471&page=1

"Obama: Bush plan for Afghanistan not enough

By NEDRA PICKLER
Associated Press Writer

RIVERSIDE, Ohio (AP) -- Barack Obama says President Bush's announcement that he'll send more forces into Afghanistan is too slow and insufficient."

gosh Obama is channeling John McCain

john hogue, this article alludes to mojo & the meltdown: http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NWVkOWE3ODIyZTg1MGRlYzBhNzZkYjY4YmE3ZGMzOGM=

Spike...

Thank you for posting your new blog! It's wonderful to get some unemotional, objective information about this election cycle.

pogo...

I'm aware of the research you mentioned about autism and the MMR, but I haven't followed the money trail on those who conducted the research. Will get back to you with an opinion after I take a look....

Craig,
8000 out of 146,000 is a tad more than 5%, and most of those will not be withdrawn until February.

Actually this doesn't conflict with Gen. David Petraeus position. "Fairly level", is his key phrase, and of the 8,000, 3,400 are support forces, the ones we like to call "in the rear with the gear". So if you subtract the 3,400 from the 8,000 that % drops to 3.15%, that is fairly level

"Gen. David Petraeus, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, had argued to keep troop levels fairly level through next June, an even longer time frame than Bush is embracing. But others, including Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said they believed that withdrawing troops more quickly from Iraq represented a small risk compared to the gain that could be made by shifting more to Afghanistan."

Fry, kinda what you were talking about this morning:

Clinton on 2nd Tour of Duty
"According to the new CBS News survey, Obama has increased his support among Hillary voters to 74%, up from 63% before the Democratic convention. However, the number of Hillary supporters indicating they will vote for McCain in November did not show a corresponding decrease. Before the two conventions 20% said they were voting McCain. After the conventions, that number stands at 18%."
http://time-blog.com/real_clear_politics/2008/09/clinton_on_2nd_tour_of_duty.html

Patd:
Thanks for the link. It gave most of the background. However, it doesn't say if there's been an official change or suspension for Scarborough. Since I don't believe in coincidences, Joe's absence immediately after the announced anchor changes is more than curious.

that spruiell article also had in it:
"With Olbermann and fellow Obama-lover Chris Matthews in the anchor chairs, the network became a glass case exhibiting a zoo of dysfunctional egos within." and
"Olbermann will, of course, remain the host of Countdown, and Matthews will still have Hardball. And, with the addition of a new show hosted by Air America’s Rachel Maddow, MSNBC’s prime-time will remain a haven for left-wing bloggers and others who believe George W. Bush should be indicted for war crimes. But for the time being, it appears that the grown-ups at NBC News have reasserted control over what was fast becoming the Olbermann Broadcasting Network."

http://worldsofspike.blogspot.com

Spike's blog....
It is worth the visit.
I hope Spike asks to have it added to Craig's blog roll

Politics as usual especially during an election year! Stupid Bush trying to help retain the Repugs to power. I knew it would be coming for a long time.

I have actually wanted to take the time to conduct my own research about how much the price of gasoline declines months just prior to an election and how those declines impact the oil company revenues. Just 2000 and 2004 would be good evidence. I bet the oil companies would gladly take a hit just to get another Republican elected. Does anyone else know where those statics can be found?

Also, from the last thread – If any of you Clinton supporters are so delusional to think if McCain and the lipstick bitch get into office that Clinton will have a chance in 2012, you are so wrong and so out of touch. Don’t you think if McCain only stays in office for four years that Palin would be out there for the next stint of say eight more years giving Hillary Clinton no chance at all to ever, ever become president. So, I’d say you had better get your damn act together if you ever want Clinton, or any Democratic female, to be in the WH. Stupidity never wins.

Katherine, Craig said he already added it to the blog roll.

chloe,

What I find funny coming from D's is this, they keep talking about what if JM dies, you know he has had cancer 4 times, his likelihood of no making it through the first 4 years are high. LMAO. Can you imagine what would be said if R's started talking about BHO untimely death. "If one speaks of death and utters the name of BHO in the same sentence then they must be a racist." This really the silly season. I do have one special reason for wanting JM to win this election. I am dying to watch all the MSM who have been in the tank for BHO, that would mean everyone on MSNBC, CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, from the very beginning to sip from the hemlock drinking fountain.

Craig,

For once I disagree with you. This "Hillary isn't doing enough" meme has been going around ever since the Convention. Let's face it, Obama thought as far as trying to do his best to destroy her during the primary, and then made a stupid choice in not making her VP.

Now it is her fault if the moderates and independents think it was poor judgement on his part and are doing what she is doing: Voting for him because it is better than the McCain/Palin alternative. You want enthusiasm too? Forget it!

Hillary Clinton will do the right thing as a loyal Democrat. She will support Obama and attack John McCain. Other than that, leave her alone.

"jamie is planning some nifty activities, should be fun
"

In line with this, I really need to know when people will be arriving, and what activities interest you most so that where possible I can get group rates. Rooms at Asilomar include breakfast at the Conference center and lunch and dinner there can be purchased separately.

I thought those arriving on Friday night might like dinner at Fandango. It is expensive, but worth it.

Saturday and Sunday are open for everything from Historical walking tours (Monterey was California's first Capitol), The Aquarium, Bay Cruise, tidal pools, wine tasting, and I hope butterflies (it's the tail end of the Monarch season) etc.

If Asilomar runs out of rooms before you book, there are scads of nearby motels and hotels in both Pacific Grove and Monterey, but it is a tourist area, so the sooner you are booked the better.

All interested parties, send me an email at webthings at comcast dot net

Thanks Chloe

I guess I should have read the "Hillary is horrible thread and if Obama loses it is her fault." but I just ate breakfast.

man, i got yelled at!

"they keep talking about what if JM dies, you know he has had cancer 4 times, his likelihood of no making it through the first 4 years are high. LMAO. Can you imagine what would be said if R's started talking about BHO untimely death. "If one speaks of death and utters the name of BHO in the same sentence then they must be a racist."

Fry, I'm pretty disgusted to keep hearing that about McCain dying in his first term too. I remember when Hillary mentioned the possibility of an assassination and the world fell apart. It was wrong to say, but so is this.

So much for the pleasantness this morning.

LOL Katherine.

KGC

“gosh Obama is channeling John McCain“

What the hell are you talking about? This is evidence that you have never been listening to Obama because from the very beginning of his campaign he has talked and talked about Afghanistan being the place where we need more troops. He even talked with Petraeus about this when he was on his trip overseas. Afghanistan IS where more troops are needed badly.

Guess it’s like the change issue. It was Obama’s from the very beginning and now the old fart is trying to use it. Unfortunately, all he is talking about is the same Bush/Cheney polices trying to claim the lipstick bitch is “change” and look how many even on here have already fallen for that. If we don’t win this one I personally don’t believe there will be another chance because we will be going into Iran. Mark my words on that. I was correct about Iraq even in "2000". And, we do not have 12 more years to act on climate change, which is what it would be before another Democrat has a chance at the presidency. Scientists say we have less than 10 years before it is too late.

patd

"NBC News have reasserted control over what was fast becoming the Olbermann Broadcasting Network.""

When I heard that Rachel Maddow was going to have her own show I expected them to follow-up with her co-host will be Al Franken. Well I can see Sean Hannity at FOX will really be worried about his rating about this MSNBC blockbuster. Rachel Maddow? LMAO Next they will be waving the North Vietnamese flag, and reciting verse from Mao's Little Red Book.

Talk about cherry picking. The deficit is just the new debt - the national debt is over $9.7 trillion and increases at about $2 Billion dolars per day. What's that in terms of a 3 trillion dollar budget? About 300% and growing rapidly as I figure it. Add interest payments on that debt to the budget deficit and you get a better picture of how much of the budget the US has control of. But that begs the question of whether the Bush economy has been good for the country.

Over the past 3 quarters, GDP growth rate has been less than 2%, .6%, 1% and 1.9% (the 2nd Q '08 final report has not been released, but 1.9% will probably be close. Employment has been contracting over that period, and new unemployment claims have been rising - to 6.1% - the highest in 5 years. Real wages haven't kept pace with inflation, the gap between the richest and the poorest has grown and the dollar is at historic lows against all other major currencies. And economists are arguing over whether the US economy is in a slowdown or a recession. Yep, that's a great economic picture, Fry. ~~~~We certainly need to continue down this economic path.~~~~

But you knew that.

lunch.

Well, I'm sure I've passed my post quota for the day.
I'm sure someone will be coming in soon and counting the posts. I'd better leave before they get here.

craig, come on, you had to have known that W would do this. the only question i had was, when? i am surprised that he would announce it right now, with McCain up in the polls. seems a waste. or maybe that is suposed to not make it look political.

"...Joe's absence immediately after the announced anchor changes is more than curious."

john, i agree. maybe our gracious host can fill us in.

craig, are you being scheduled for any early morning msnbc duty all of a sudden?

Hil'ry always plays it smart. Make this about Repbulicans and McCain.

(Prefer to not even speak/write Scary's actual name; it only gives her power. Refer to her only as the Republican veep nom, that way, folks never forget she is with the Bush WH all the way and she is only been nominated; she is nothing yet.)

"Clinton herself took to the campaign trail in Florida yesterday on Obama's behalf and urged voters to support the Democratic ticket. But, prompted by one spectator, she declined to take after Palin."

"You know what? I don't think that's what this election is about," Clinton said at a rally in Kissimmee. "This election is about the differences between us and the Republican Party,"

"The group notes, however, that they do not approve of Palin's politics. "We cannot pretend that Governor Palin meets any standard of progressive politics or social values," Camposano writes."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080909/pl_politico/20934

to fry 12:18
i must agree, i don't think much of 'when will he croak' talk. just shows how absurd the media/comentators have become.
this whole election is fast becoming a joke. they are sounding like a bunch of kids: "i did not", "you did so"
and, it seems like everybody is trying to scratch up a girl-on-girl hairpulling between HRC and SP.
how foolish we must look to the rest of the world.

The following is a mythical occurrence that speaks to a larger point.

Again this is the USS Montana requesting that you immediately divert your course 15 degrees to the North to avoid a collision. Over.”
“Please divert your course 15 degrees to the south to avoid collision.”
The American end of the conversation is now taken over by the ship’s captain.
“This is Captain Hancock. You will divert your course. Over.”
“Negative captain. I’m not moving anything. Change your course. Over.”
“Son. This is the USS Montana, the second largest vessel in the North Atlantic Fleet. You WILL change course fifteen degrees North or I will be forced to take measures to ensure the safety of this ship. Over!”
“This is a lighthouse mate. It’s your call… Hello… Captain?”

I can't help but think that McCain is the ship captain in this story. He's assumed Bush's know it all mentality.

Craig, what does it say that Bush has started to adopt a lot of ideas that Obama has been espousing with regards to Iraq and Afghanistan?

"Craig, what does it say that Bush has started to adopt a lot of ideas that Obama has been espousing with regards to Iraq and Afghanistan"

Bear,

I don't think he has except as events dictate. He is still for being fully engaged mode, not draw down mode. The 8000 withdrawl is headline grabbing, not policy change. They may quietly be replaced next month.

Jack

""This election is about the differences between us and the Republican Party,"

But Blue, She didn't do enough! McCain and Palin weren't frog marched down a long pier and deep sixed in the Atlantic with cement overshoes. Obviously she doesn't really support Obama.

Oh, John McCain. You really backed yourself into the far-right corner with your veep selection. Picking a holy war proponent just reminds us of how much you've buddied up to Dub in the past 8 years.

"It will be very important how the McCain campaign handles this. If they become defensive and run from it and try to hide the fact that there is this element of faith, then I think it's going to turn off social conservatives, evangelicals, orthodox Christians."

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/09/perkins.qa/

solarcrete, your post from last thread deserves repeating: "I think their secrete (Clintons) language is like it is with a very good sales (the best) sales person-always adapting to what is going on all the time.Like tools of the trade they know what the R's and D's are saying(most R's and D's just listen to themselves) and come up in the middle.I think Mr Crawfords leg is being pulled.After all this time the press has mostly invented the secrete coded language,take a look at msm(C.M.) he ha been obsessed about this.My head hurts from all the I thinks...."

For those doing the "what if he dies" scary moment stuff, I say, "OOOOOOOH What if he doesn't die?"

scary, scary

Jack

I know Hil'ry doesn't really back Obama. She was the better candidate & folks realized it too late. However, she also has to be careful how she plays this...I think she's taking Craig's "be more passive" approach right now.

The more attention gooper Scary gets, the bigger and more powerful an entity she seems to be, which helps McCain. Marginalize her as much as possible, while still letting folks know what she's done (& not done) and what she stands for (& against).

patd, i know you and many others have asked me about msnbc. sorry to ignore but i just don't traffic in the internal affaris of people i work for. in fact, i make it a practice not to even learn anything beyond what's public. that way, i know nothing and i can prove it.

Craig,

If you were 50 pounds heavier, we would have to call you Sargent Schultz...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztgYhVFSDSQ

Even more stunning: Chris Matthews’ dim-wittedness on last evening’s Hardball. Matthews tried to discuss the Bridge to Nowhere claim, but he quickly said he couldn’t understand why we’re wasting time on such topics. He then completely bungled the matter. He didn’t know the facts of the case; neither did one of his guests, “Democratic strategist” Steve McMahon. The other guest, Republican strategist Todd Harris, quite capably pimped misleading claims about the matter. Harris could accomplish this task because Matthews and McMahon were so thoroughly and completely unprepared.

McMahon is a wealthy DC insider; Matthews is a wealthy pseudo-journalist. Let us explain the world to these tools: We’re discussing the Bridge to Nowhere claim for an obvious reason—Palin is using the tale to define her brilliant character to unsuspecting, unknowing voters. Now, we’ll explain the world to our readers: In a slightly more righteous society, Matthews and McMahon would be dragged out into the countryside, where they’d get a free public re-education. (Sorry, fellas—no vouchers!) Each is a millionaire—at your expense. Each man was completely unprepared for last night’s pseudo-discussion.

HUG ME, I’M FATUOUS: The depth of the upper-end press corps’ fatuity simply defies description. This morning, the New York Times’ second-biggest political story is this report by Elisabeth Bumiller. In it, Bumiller examines an etiquette question: Should John McCain hug Sarah Palin?
http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh090908.shtml

good one, bear

$9.7 trillion.???

That is over a 10 years period pogo. Here is another indicator no one pays much attention to trucks and trains freight, and new delivery contracts. I sighted the unemployment of 6.1%, and said correctly it is a lagging indicator (6 months), and it always has been. But if you really want to see the economy go into the tank start raising taxes when the economy is starting to recover. You don't have to be a graduate of the Wharton School to know that.

"the gap between the richest and the poorest has grown and the dollar is at historic lows against all other major currencies"

The first part is "duh" yeah. But they use the words richest, like George Soros and the poorest like those who sleep on grates down by the White House. Teach a man how to fish and he'll never go hungry, give a wino a dollar and he'll buy a bottle of MD-40.

BTW the US $$$ of late has been gaining on other world currencies, particularity the Euro.

The "surge" has also been called the McCain doctrine, a label coined by John Edwards to describe a proposed surge in troop levels and escalation of the war in Iraq named after its "chief advocate", Senator John McCain (R-Ariz.).

a surge is a surge is a surge

pogo & others out there of the legal persuasion, what think ye?
"The Democrats’ vice-presidential nominee, Joe Biden, was caught the other day assuring the party faithful that an Obama administration “will not be stopped from pursuing any criminal offence” committed by Bush administration officials. He was simply echoing the party’s standard-bearer. Back in April, Obama told the Philadelphia Inquirer that he intended to have “my Justice Department and my attorney general immediately review” any information that might be used to justify an investigation of the president or his aides. Like Biden, Obama averred that “if crimes have been committed, they should be investigated.” The Little Green Footballs blog has even turned up an Obama campaign flier about Iraq, promising to “hold accountable any perpetrators of war crimes.” http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=Y2M5ZjMyMzYyOTNlMTc4OGQyNjJhYzRhYWY2OTFhZmY=

Bye. Lunch.

crackers - MSNBC, Team Obama, someone should hire you to focus them.

As to a hug for Scary, McCain hugs W so...

"I am dying to watch all the MSM who have been in the tank for BHO, that would mean everyone on MSNBC, CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, from the very beginning to sip from the hemlock drinking fountain."

Ahhh Fry Daddy, to quote Sam Cooke - "what a Wonderful World this would be"

i heard someone say recently, "the pres canididate shouldn't shot down". in other words, BHO should not be attacking Palin, it brings him down to her level.
isn't that was the veep job. but Biden doesn't seem wont to do it.

Blue
Obama can go the Daily Howler too. I'm always pleased to see Democrats go after Republican mythology but they need to make sure their troops and enablers have all the talking points and are on board.

Biden said he wouldn't attack Palin because it would hurt "his brand." And it was something he had discussed with the Obama campaign before he agreed to the vp pick

So where is the Biden to the rescue NOT piece.

KGC,

With apologies to Peter, Paul and Mary...

It's leaving on a commuter train...

"how foolish we must look to the rest of the world"

Amen Nelson

Ah, but Biden is gonna have to be careful about what he says & how he says it. He can't look like he's attacking her/her family.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/09/09/politics/fromtheroad/entry4430993.shtml

ps - McCain, the economy, the war, the last 8 years, The Constitution...lots of things the Dems need to focus on. Marginalize their veep!

A little levety from another blog

"A driver is stuck in a traffic jam going into downtown Chicago. Nothing Is Moving north or south. Suddenly a man knocks on his window.
The driver rolls down his window and asks, ‘What happened, what’s the hold Up?’
‘Terrorists have kidnapped Barack Obama, Bill Ayers and his wife, and the Reverends Wright and Pfleger. They are asking for a $10 Million ransom. Otherwise, they are going to douse them with gasoline and set them on fire. We are going from car to car, taking up a collection.’

The driver asks, ‘On average, how much is everyone giving?’
‘About a gallon.’

McCain, the economy, the war, the last 8 years, The Constitution...lots of things the Dems need to focus on. Marginalize their veep! Blue

Blue
I think the Obama campaign needs you!

Bear

What would happen if the feds didn't bail out freddie and fannie?

Democrats take lessons from the Amish

Lieberman shunned, oversight panel post in peril
By Ben Schneider and Daniel Friedman CongressDaily September 9, 2008

http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0908/090908cdam2.htm

Can Sarah debate? You decide
http://www.c-spanarchives.org/library/includes/templates/library/flash_popup.php?pID=195195-1&clipStart=&clipStop=

Also I do not think Andrea Mitchell should be covering the mortgage crisis.

KGC,

If Fannie and Freddie weren't bailed out, I think you would have seen mortgage rates continue to rise and a continued stagnation in the industry.

"With this move, the Federal Government now explicitly guarantees the obligations of Fannie and Freddie securities. This has removed uncertainty and increased the demand for mortgage securities. Both domestic and foreign investors had recently reduced their purchases of mortgage securities, and they are now expected to be comfortable stepping up their purchases again."

If lenders have assurances that they can resell the loans they originate, they will be more willing to make loans and it will facilitate getting out of this foreclosure mess...

The funny thing though is that McCain was against this move a couple of months ago and is now for it.

Someone should tell Palin that until the takeover, no taxpayer dollars ever went to either Freddie or Fannie. As a matter of fact, no taxpayer dollars go to FHA or VA mortgage either. They rate as the only self sufficient gov't programs since the fees charged to borrowers fund the program completely.

The best way to characterize the government's behavior is with the following:

Picture you are driving down a highway and the fog is so think you can't see beyond the hood of your car. (The fog being the credit crunch)

The government figured the fog may cause a small 4 or 5 car pileup. Instead we got a 100 car pileup. (Cars being lender's and homeowners)

The guarantee that the US will by those MBS is the equivalent of the sun burning off the fog and returning visibility.

It won't be an immediate panacea but if you can credit qualify right now, you can get very good deals on pricing of a home and the pricing of your mortgage too.

~~~~~~~Ed Koch, now there is a valuable endorsement, wow the big ones just keep roling in~~~~~~~

Jack

Thank you Patd:

How can i repost the whole post, without retyping it all?It is the last post of the last thread.

Fry, that is the accumulated debt of the nation. Unlike the balance on your mortgage, it is growing rather than diminishing, but like the balance on your mortgage, it must be serviced, which further weakens the dollar. I don't buy your your GDP and durable goods cherrypicking because the expected results - more jobs, higher wages, etc. aren't resulting from the increases you cite.

http://bullandbearwise.com/DurableGoodsChart.asp

And the earnings gap is between percentage rankings in income groups, not individuals. Soros my ass. It reflects a larger accumlation of wealth in the higher income groups relative to the lower ones since the lowest income groups have remained close to zero and the average wage has remained flat while the gap has increased.

If the increases you hype have any real meaning, it is in the shared advantage they provide to business owners and workers. That hasn't happened under the Bush economy. And your vaunted durable goods orders are unchanged for the past 2 1/2 years, just as personal income has remained essentially flat over the past 5 years. Spin all you like - Bush's economy has been a failure. The next president will have to try and dig out just like Clinton had to following 12 years of Reaganomics - and we know what GHWB described it as. Unemployment is a lagging indicator, true, from which you can only infer a 6 month old trend in the economy. If GDP is your indicator things don't look so peachy since it is not increasing at a rate worth noting; or if you choose durable goods orders, the outlook for jobs may be a bit brighter, but it's nothing to write home about. And in the context of the housing market and contracting manufacturing segment, I don't see a lot to be optimistic about - at least for those sectors of the economy that provide jobs with futures.

Fact is, you're struggling to find bright spots in a sluggish economy to try and defend the indefensible.

pat - Biden is talking tough about investigations, saying what Dems want to hear, but in truth there is probably little that can be done to anyone in the executive branch short of a finding of treason. Lies to Congress for instance (Bush and Cheney were not under oath) can be justified under a couple of theories. The end result probably won't be as satisfying as Biden suggests, but the process could be very satisfying.

KC, if the feds didn't bail out Freddie and Fannie, I think it would mostly result in a loss of confidence in the housing finance markets, their stock would become virtually worthless and they would not be able to inject new life into the housing markets by underwriting new loans, which would result in a flat housing market - builders don't build what they can't sell. Foreclosures shouldn't necessarily rise because
Fannie/Freddie loans have higher requirements to qualify than most. Bear could give better insight since he's in that industry.

REPENT, SINNERS, REPENT!

That, or get laid.

Ohio poll McCain +7

New Mexico , Saturday McCain rally tickets all gone shortly after release and people clamoring for more . Hillary won New Mexico primary. 2004 election was won by only a squeak. With the McCain momentum, New Mexico will be a state to watch.

julie

Solar - just put the cursor on the link and right click the link then click "copy shortcut". Come back over here and do a control-V in a post and it will put the link there.

champ - I choose (b).

You would, you godless, baby-killing heathen.

She got any sisters?

have one special reason for wanting JM to win this election. I am dying to watch all the MSM who have been in the tank for BHO, that would mean everyone on MSNBC, CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, from the very beginning to sip from the hemlock drinking fountain.

Posted by: FryDaddy

Retribution never had a sound so sweet.

If Obama has a spine then its DNA is made of "Nuance" and "Context."
His apathetic initial response to the Russian invasion was "nuanced" daily, and reminds me of how he firmly defended his willingness to meet despots, only to "nuance" that issue till it is moribund and meaningless.

When Rev. Wright burst forth Obama said Wright's sermons must be viewed in "context" and the lap dog MSM lauded his speech on race, stating it would "usher in a new era of dialogue on race." I'm still waiting to hear that speech and how Wright's anti-american rants will unite us?

W. Ayers the unrepentant terrorist and Obama's audacious use of J. Clyburn the gifted race monger surely must also be viewed in "context," or so I'm told. "Context" is not a substitute for judgment IMHO.

PUMA/Clintons4McCain

toast

Ha, Kinsley on Palinomics.

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1839724,00.html

One - but she's married.

Julie

From the conversation last night
Polling for the MO gov. contest
http://www.pollster.com/polls/mo/08-mo-gov-ge-hvn.php

Jack

How does Senator Obama know what Afghanistan needs in the way of troops? He was the /is the committee on Afghanistan and never ever held a meeting. When asked, he was too busy campaigning.

Julie

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/10/business/economy/10econ.html?hp

Here's a snapshot of the goods sectors of the economy.

Well, gotta go - work, y'know.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/large-hadron-collider.htm

Picture of the two dudes is funny. Endless caption opportunities.

Thanks Jack,
Hmm, here I thought Nixon was so far ahead.
Looks like The 11% Jay Nixon has over hulshof could be in jeprody(sp).
This is the Missouri governors race
julie

champ, are you in on this bet re cern?
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5icc5S5VZOr9H3exHeBQViM35ppow

Pogo:

Thanks for the instructions,did not work, no copy when I right clicked,tried another and that didn't work.I'll figure it out.will repost first section another time.

"i know nothing and i can prove it."

craig, i completely understand your reluctance to gossip about your colleagues. you are the epitome of a gentleman. also plausible deniability is an art fine honed in your fair city.

RCP reports Survey USA poll with Obama only having a 4 pt. lead in Washington state. I'm surprised it is that close.

My gut feeling is that the lead is greater than that. I guess we will see.

No action for me, patd. Funny, Hawking bet $100 they won't find the HB, while our government and others have bet $7 billion it will.

Thanks Pogo and Bear for info on the bailout
The fact I found interesting is that China is one of the big bond holders for Freddie and Fannie --I'm guessing the US needs to keep their credit lines to China open.

Solar crete

First you click on the date/time at the bottom of your post. That gives you your posts exact address in the top of your window, the one that starts "http://blogs"
Click on this it will be highlited in blue. Then right click to get a menu and choose copy. Then come to the current thread and in the message box right click and choose from the menu 'paste' this will give the link to you message so all can go back and read it. You may add comments either above or below the link you pasted into the comment box. Just be suer to leave several spaces befor and after the link. I usually comment then hit the return button twice

and put the link on its own line.

Jack

But you know pogo if you want to pay more taxes you can, there is nothing preventing you from doing so. So if you want to increase your tax bill by 10% that is fine with me, but I rather have that extra 10% to make it work for what I consider important to my family

Posted by Fry Daddy

Translation: "I got mine and to hell with everyone else"

Ron Paul To Appear on Montana Ballot as the nominee of the Constitution Party.

On September 5, the ballot-qualified Constitution Party of Montana submitted its presidential elector candidates to the Secretary of State. The party informed the Secretary of State that its electors are pledged to Ron Paul for president and Michael Peroutka for vice-president.

This may be interesting and of help to Obama since Paul could be favorable to many goopers.

Solar another option

Just right click on the date/time on the message you want to reference.

A set of options will open, highlight "copy shortcut" and left click.

Come to post comment and left click

Highlight paste and right click.

The shortcut to the previous message should be there.

Do leave lines on either side for clarity and ease for others clicking on the link.

I sighted the unemployment of 6.1%, and said correctly it is a lagging indicator (6 months), and it always has been.

Posted by Fry Daddy

Just to add a thought here... (and sorry Fry but I believe you present only a portion of the fact here)

"Who is counted as unemployed?

Persons are classified as unemployed if they do not have a job, have actively looked for work in the prior 4 weeks, and are currently available for work."...

-Bureau of Labor Statistics.

What this means is that anyone who has tried to find employment, but has failed or given up, is not on the statistics at all. In a work force composite where there are too few jobs and too many work seekers, there are invariably people who can't find anything! They lose the motivation or the means to even keep on trying. Yet we do not consider them unemployed....

Posted by: EuroTom Author Profile Page | September 9, 2008 3:21 PM

Lots of good points there. And don't forget the people who have taken really crappy low paying jobs -- the underemployed.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/bushs-troop-reversal.html#comment-142097

Hurrah Pogo! Your comment to Fry was spot on: "Fact is, you're struggling to find bright spots in a sluggish economy to try and defend the indefensible."...

But you forgot to mention that this is the heart of soul of Republicanism. When THEY are doing well, nothing else matters. And they will always find a way to rationalize why the super rich are rich and why they should be allowed to stay that way.

The only decent Republican I have found on the issue of economy is Kevin Phillips who first predicted the Republican majorities back in the 1960's. Phillips wrote an excellent book called "The Politics of Rich and Poor"

I have one special reason for wanting JM to win this election - I am dying to watch all the MSM who have been in the tank for BHO, that would mean everyone on MSNBC, CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, from the very beginning to sip from the hemlock drinking fountain.

Posted by: FryDaddy

That's a pretty sad reason to want someone to win.

From that kinsley link...

Back to reality. Of the 50 states, Alaska ranks No. 1 in taxes per resident and No. 1 in spending per resident. Its tax burden per resident is 2 1/2 times the national average; its spending, more than double. The trick is that Alaska's government spends money on its own citizens and taxes the rest of us to pay for it. Although Palin, like McCain, talks about liberating ourselves from dependence on foreign oil, there is no evidence that being dependent on Alaskan oil would be any more pleasant to the pocketbook.

Alaska is, in essence, an adjunct member of OPEC. It has four different taxes on oil, which produce more than 89% of the state's unrestricted revenue. On average, three-quarters of the value of a barrel of oil is taken by the state government before that oil is permitted to leave the state. Alaska residents each get a yearly check for about $2,000 from oil revenues, plus an additional $1,200 pushed through by Palin last year to take advantage of rising oil prices. Any sympathy the governor of Alaska expresses for folks in the lower 48 who are suffering from high gas prices or can't afford to heat their homes is strictly crocodile tears.

ET, the "long term unemployed" are not included in that number. Unemployed is as you pointed out a defined term that is underinclusive of the nonworking proportion of the populaton. It's kind of difficult to come up with anything like exact figures for total unemployed (in the general senes) of the populaton for a number of reasons, but the Bureau of Labor Statistics has a wealth of info about it.

This has some of the info you were referring to.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

Animal; 1:25 pm..........."on average, about a gallon,' I loved it, it was funny............................................

Champ; 2:20 pm ................ I'm sure you'd get more out of getting laid than out of this NEW democratic party...

Toast; 2:27 pm ............ You bet, Context is no substitute for judgement, BO's or the backroom's ......

I have a general question: Since we were speaking about death in the abstract (I hope). My question is - if something were to happen to a nominee who would get the nod afterwards, the choice of VP or the other primary winner who got the most votes....................

Rita

Politico has an article that is buried on Johnathan
Martin strip.

This early - Obama Bailing out on GEORGIA

So much for my hopes of getting in a fall trip to The Varsity or even 'Tween the Hedges: Obama is bailing on Georgia.

My colleague Lisa Lerer went to the Obama HQ for a briefing by manager David Plouffe and reports:

Obama recently stopped running ads in Georgia, a state the campaign originally identified as a potential battleground. Some Georgia field staff was moved into North Carolina, said Plouffe.

julie

EuroTom,

See, Republicans are for hope after all...they just hope to see others suffer...lol

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/hillary-to-the-rescue-not.html#comment-142019

Julie,

All you need to know about Georgia is that Lynn Westmoreland was reelected even though he was rated one of the worst Reps in Congress.

Never mind that this is the "Uppity" putz, but he was on a mission to get the Ten Commandments posted in every court and school in Georgia. When Steven Colbert asked him to name said Commandments, He could only remember don't kill and don't steal.

Rita, interesting question that I was also wondering...I'm curious to know when ballots get locked.

Jack,Jamie:

Thank you.Things go pretty fast around here,hope comment is still of a little interest.

I was surprised to see a campaign ad for McCain on a Peoria Il. t.v. station. Looks like he is fighting for every state.

Ruth

Thought his home state would be a lock for him

Ruth

I wonder if anything would change were people like Hagel and Powell come out and endorse Obama...

I'm glad to see Obama making moves away from Georgia - it shows that at least Plouffe can recognize a state that is unattainable. Pouring money into a rabbit hole is no way to win an election. I seem to remember (was it warren?) a rabid Obama supporter agrguing Georgia with me back in February or so - I said "no way", he said "way". Well, I say "told ya so." NC is at about a 3 percent gap, so I guess it's worth spending some money on, but for god's sake, Obama - go to Ohio. No Ohio, no presidency.

Bear, he likes the other 8, so he can't really remember them as proscriptions.

ET,

I with you on several of FD's recent comments. I particurlarly was taken back by the smugness in his remarks about the value of Social Security and Medicare to many in our country. And he wonders why I find insincerity of his repudiation of any comments made by that asshole junkie Limpbaugh.

FD,

I wasn't calling you a liar, I just don't believe some of what you say based upon your comments over the course of my time here.
I thought your equating battered women with HRC was a nice touch~~~~~

Sorry, that would be with HRC supporters

Bear
Re endorsements. Hagel and Powell are good for war/some foreign policy. He needs Alan Greenspan ohwait...

I think he needs the economic populists in the Democratic party to get out there for him --Tester, Webb and the gov of Montana and whoever else the rest of them are.

25 dollars'the cost of a mcCain campaign contribution.
the look on democrats dumbfounded faces election
night'' priceless

well..... I didn't want to lose my perfect record...... so I got out of this house and voted....

why does everyone keep talking about who Obama needs to go campaigning for him....... how about he campaigns for himself...... he stands on his own 2 feet and explains why we should vote for him.....

if a candidate can't make their own case, IMO, no surrogate will be able to either....

Renee...

Half game baby...half game!

I am off to bed... nice to drop in and out. Thanks for the comments...

Renee, I'd have to say that it's because he hasn't sufficiently made his own case. Of course, as a dem he had me at "hello". (damn party politics).

RR
I don't think people mean instead of..but in addition to.

For example, Obama has a much more detailed economic stimulus plan. If surrogates in states like Ohio --Sherrod Brown for example-- would have town hall meetings and in explain in detail it would help keep the emphasis on the issues and educate voters.

KGC

Obama needs to steal this ad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy4AKiGI5ro

One thing about Missouri Republicans they know how to run like Democrats. Then they govern like Republicans and nobody remembers next election day. I've been watching it for 30 years.

Jack

BO in NC. I ain't votin fer hem till I sees him at a nascar race wearin a wrastlin tshirt and camo crocs.
Jus another yahoo in fly over country.

LOL

Bubba, your getting your dialects mixed up.

Jack

"My question is - if something were to happen to a nominee who would get the nod afterwards, the choice of VP or the other primary winner who got the most votes.........."

Rita, The closes thing I could find to this was regarding replacing a Vice Presidential Nominee:

How To Replace a Vice Presidential Nominee
What this means as a practical matter is a lot harder to figure out. If a vice presidential slot went vacant, a committee's choice for a replacement would almost certainly be a rubber stamp; replacing the top of the ticket might be a good deal more complicated in practice. Another problem would be posed by the names printed on the Election Day ballots: State laws vary as to how close to Election Day a party can replace one candidate with another. If a state's deadline had already passed, a party might have to file a lawsuit to make the change...."

"The 1972 presidential campaign provides our best historical example of how a vacancy is filled. Less than three weeks after Thomas Eagleton was put on the Democratic ticket—and just days after he disclosed his past electroshock treatment for depression—the Missouri senator announced he would withdraw from the campaign.....".
http://www.slate.com/toolbar.aspx?action=read&id=2199167

Sorry, I forgot to mention boll'd p-nuts and bbq.
You're right nice to correct me.

Bubba

They don't barbeque/bbq in NC they just soak the meat in vinegar.

No wonder they vote Republican.
;-0

Jack

nah, jack, they smoke it THEN they soak it in vinegar. I think you're right about it being the vinegar thing that keeps NC red, though - if that's what you meant..

jack - scroll down to "The Pit"

http://www.ncbbqsociety.com/pigtalk.html

Just for bubba

the daily Hee haw

Abunch of them Carter girls a singin "Dixie Darlin"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J4HcjV7KII

Jack

Well, between the bad news about Lehman and the housing market, the Dow erased its gains from yesterday, closing down 280 pts.

Well, gotta scram - LP has state capitals to l'arn.

I seem to remember (was it warren?) a rabid Obama supporter agrguing Georgia with me back in February or so - I said "no way", he said "way". Well, I say "told ya so." NC is at about a 3 percent gap, so I guess it's worth spending some money on, but for god's sake, Obama - go to Ohio. No Ohio, no presidency.

Posted by: pogo

pogo
I remember your dueling posts with warren and it was one of his strongest arguments against Hillary, the new paradigm made Hillary old hat. It seems like old hat might sill reign.

PUMA/Clintons4McCain

regards
toast

And Pogo, Ah suppose yur a fixin ta help em.

Jack

Can Obama Win Back Wal-Mart Moms?

"It might be easy to dismiss John McCain's resurgence in the polls as merely a convention bounce, especially in light of the excitement generated by running mate Sarah Palin, but there's one startling shift that should be particularly worrisome to Barack Obama's campaign. In the Washington Post-ABC News survey released Monday, McCain enjoyed a 20-percentage-point turnaround against Obama among white women, going from an 8-point deficit before the Republican National Convention to a 12-point advantage after it."
http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1839930,00.html

not exactly but still an interesting proposition, and a good book.......
One of the ones I've won along the way calling in to Imus

The People's Choice is a 1993 novel written by Jeff Greenfield. When President-Elect MacArthur Foyle dies after the general election, but before the Electoral College has a chance to vote him into office, the nation is swung into chaos.

Greenfield's memorable characters, including political puppeteer Jack Petitcon, Vice President-Elect Ted Block, and the very Reverend Dixon Mason, provide plenty of punch to carry along the fantastical-but-possible story.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMxp5UkeGCc

McCain daughter on morning show talking about war.

comma comma down, doobie do down down.

--Neil Sedaka

Jack,

They smoke the meat, low and slow, which is what you need in order to call it barbecue

by the way all, i forgot to flag for you that Helen Thomas is back writing again. here is here Palin column:

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/helenthomas/17382746/detail.html

Bear

I know, then they soak it in vinegar.

Just step out your door and ask anybody you see if that is BBQ. I will trust the folks in Texas.

Jack

very nice......thanks for the Helen Thomas........

http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv/idUSN0946968820080909

Stanley's guilty plea is a big development in an investigation that Halliburton revealed in 2004.

"I say all this to explain why I think vice presidents are hugely important in this uncertain world, a point that appears to have eluded McCain." - Helen Thomas

from the link posted above.

Don't let the regional barbeque pride-mongers cloud your judgment, Jack. Divide and conquer.

"RR
I don't think people mean instead of..but in addition to."

KGC.... ok.... I get it now..... thanks..... BTW.... I had a great old vine zin from Windmill Estates last night..... YUM!

gee.... I thought bbq happened when you hit the button on the gas grill.....
~~~~~but what do I know.... I'm just a northern retard~~~~~~

Hey,

If it tastes good, I could care less what you call it...lol

Craig...

1942?????

Wow that woman has seen a lot...you think she'll be allowed in the White House briefing room during a McCain administration? Or will they give her seat to the gay prostitute as well?

Honoring military service by trading promotions for political favors; the Republican way. eh?

http://www.vetvoice.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=1869

Now, if we can just get that “barracuda” (better known as the bitch) out there WITHOUT the old man we’ll see what she can do. So far she’s done nothing but lie, only in a northern accent.

It would seem that since everyone went after MSNBC for being biased that CNN is now taking over the vetting of Palin. I noticed earlier that Wolfe Blitzer was bringing up some interesting points about her and McCain, like the seven lobbyists in their campaign and Palin’s lies about the bridge. Checking will show you that anyone who disagreed with her was fired. She even fired a long-time co-worker of 30 years who was going through a divorce because she (and her husband) did not like the fact he was already dating someone else before the divorce was final. Isn’t that someone’s own business?

(better known as the bitch)
--karolenna

Rezdog,

That clip should make anyone fear the incompetence of the McCain administration.

How could Tucker Bounds not be ready to say she had to call out the Guard last summer to deal with wild fires?

Any idiot, except one working for McCain would figure that with the harsh winters and vast forests, there was a chance for something to call up. Fuck, these idiots lie about everything else and the best he could do was "she did more than Obama but not have 1 speck of evidence?"

Wow, if Campbell Brown can get over on the McCain campaign, the ticket really has no excuse not to either.

"Now, if we can just get that “barracuda” (better known as the bitch) out there WITHOUT the old man we’ll see what she can do."

You just have to love the 'New' Democratic Party!

Karolenna........why cant you advance your views without being so.............bitchy.

Just curious.

the more the media goes after palin 'the higher her
popularity rises.they are trying to do to her what they
did to clinton 'its harder to get away with it with the
whole country watching

Maybe it's reverse psychology.

I love my Democratic Party!

NEW THREAD

I had a parakeet that used to fly around the house and crash into these huge mirrors my mother put in. Ever heard of this interior design principle, that a mirror makes it seem like you have an entire other room?
What kind of jerk walks up to a mirror and goes, "Hey look, there's a whole other room in there. There's a guy that looks just like me in there." But the parakeet would fall for this. I'd let him out of his cage, he'd fly
right into the mirror. And I'd always think, "Even if he thinks the mirror is another room, why doesn't he at least try to avoid hitting the other parakeet?"
---jerry seinfeld

"(better known as the bitch)
--karolenna"

Hey, Sturge. You think you know something no one else does. I even have a T-Shirt that says "I'm not a bitch; I am THE Bitch".

Go volunteer to do something for someone. I do. At least I put my money and efforts where I truly care..that's about helping people in need (and Obama)...something you'll never see from McCain/Palin or IMO any Republican. Oh, you're in need but I'm not trained in that area. You must get a reference for that affliction.

"Go volunteer to do something for someone. I do."

Yeah Karolenna,
You're our 'roll model'.
We'll get right on it.
When I grow up, I want to be just like you.

NEW THREAD