Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Good Morning all

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/bushs-political-bankruptcy.html#comment-152406

Hey Jason
I'm so glad you finished your dissertation!! In reading you all these months you seem to be such a fine person!! Oh and of course you like Madonna!!! HA. I'm also very glad I changed to Independent.It was an act of defiance to let the Democratic party know they can't count on my vote if they don't count every vote! It also allowed me rid myself of some of the intense anger I felt regarding the primary process as a whole....

Enough fun for everyone.

"Since then, the Russian government has poured in billions of dollars into the banking system in an effort to ease liquidity concerns."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080930/ap_on_bi_ge/eu_russia_markets

I share your feelings well said.
http://allinviews.blogspot.com/

Craig, They would still have quite a case to make in a homeowner bailout. Why should people who live within their means and pay their bills have to shoulder the burden for those who are in over their heads?

I think Fluffy Carlson was right this morning on MoJo. Maybe we just need to suck it up & deal & do a little fiscal growing up.

Bailout mortgaged homeowners? Oh, that's going to really fly, too. That will undoubtedly get wrapped around the dumb-buyer/innocent victim axle.

Like I've said before, it's time to reenact the usury laws that went out with Reagan. Once that's done, then we can start looking at individual pieces of paper.

If a moratorium on foreclosures is mandated, then there must be some provisions for protecting mortgage holders.

I'm really not particularly sympathetic about bailing out home owners with my tax dollars.

Blue, real sorry 'bout the Russians.

Jason..... Congrats! here's to hoping it gets accepted.....

Chloe..... people who only see the world in black and white have a hard time with someone who sees the world in rainbow colors such as yourself......
I LOVE color!

it looks like if the government passes some kind of bailout/rescue bill that it will be unfair in some way to someone else.....

Craig..... I hope you put up your Imus interview later on..... I forgot all about it..... dang these senior moments!......

Jason---

Congrats on the dissertation!! If you need witnesses for the defense, let me know!

Oh, Jason, am I right in thinking you may be toying with a position in Suriname? If so, also look at Panama. I think that would be a much more hospitable environment. Lots of international financial interests there. And, a nice place for mom and dad to visit.

I just heard that the black caucas voted against the bill. So much for Obama"s leadership. I understand he spend the other night at a dinner with them--interesting.

Also how many provisions can we add to this bill? Homeowners bear some responsibility too. How many people do we bail out here.

Jason, you may have said but I missed it.......what was the subject of your dissertation, if I may ask?

My favorite "dissertation"
"A Dissertation on Roast Pig" by Lamb

http://www.philosophy.uncc.edu/mleldrid/ct/readings/lamb.html

Craig – Straight message today!! And this is why the measure failed – The will of the people. The Dems and Reps that voted for the People should be respected for standing tall.

A+

jason, oh happy day!

and i agree with flatus when he urged you to look at panama. especially when he said "Lots of international financial interests there. And, a nice place for mom and dad to visit." they have a pretty good retirement deal taxwise for usa citizens so i'm told.

http://www.amazingribs.com/tips_and_technique/dissertation_on_roast_pork.html

the above link was only the first part..........this is the whole essay............

good comments, Craig. Bush is such a creep to leave this flaming bag of dog poop for the American peeps, at his parting gift. One last tribute to his flawed administration and band of crooks. Again, check Ft. Knox, they might have taken the gold.

"as his parting gift"...sorry for the typos, anger typing.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/bushs-political-bankruptcy.html#comment-152404
"This is exactly what happens when we as a country live to big. We, as a country, want too much and we consume consume consume.... This is what happens to a GREEDY nation like the US and a nation that wants to be the big brother in the world, but in fact is just a big bully that acts as a spoiled brat."

Yes Jason. But it was our leaders that took us in that direction. And you know we don't have that much control over what our leaders do, if for no other reason than what you said: "all the politicians lie".

Congratulations on finishing your dissertation.
Also, on your 2:20 post "be independent and look at every person or candidate with an open view.....", well said.

".... people who only see the world in black and white have a hard time with someone who sees the world in rainbow colors such as yourself......
I LOVE color!"

Renee, That is beautiful! Thank you sooooo much.
You always say just the right thing!.

Sturg, back in the old Joy of Cooking by Rombauer there was an anecdote about her visiting Mexico and preparing roast suckling pig for a formal dinner.

She told the kitchen staff that it had to be served with an apple in the mouth. Despite protests, Mrs Rombauer prevailed and she was assured that it would be served that way.

And, when it came time for the main course, in walks the server who, as ordered, marched to the head of the table with an apple in her mouth.

Blonde........I think in about 12 minutes he's going to ring america's doorbell...........before he runs away.

Thanks for the fix, Craig.

The Beltway Crash
Congress lives up to its 10% approval rating.

"America has survived a feckless political class in the past, and it will again after this week. But Monday's crash and burn of the Paulson plan on Capitol Hill reveals a Washington elite that has earned every bit of the disdain that Americans have for it. This crowd can't even make sausage."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122273257698488295.html

Chloe, what should Congress do when they reconvene? Seems like they have an open slate with many choices available.

sturg...yep, he is in our face again this morning. I am getting nightmares....dreamt all of the congressional leaders in Cats costumes...bunch of pussies, I presume. Harry Reid looked especially good in his costume.

Flatus, This is way over my head. But that Wall Street article has various options.

sings (with feeling)------------midnight............not a sound from the beltway......

Blonde Wino

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LI1DMZ6J_RM

Im really looking forward to that "W" movie.......lol
I mean REALLY..............

yon bushius has that lean and hongry look.........

thanks, sock...if only the congress could move like that!

flatus.......lol on the apple bit......I have that book as well...............not to mention a very fine Betty Crocker.......

Chloe and Flatus,
The Core of what happens with the congress must be to return to the FUNDAMENTALS of our Economy.
The problem has been created and is absolutely are result of our Government passing laws that are counter to the Fundamentals.
It is not simple but values and Principles must be the rule!
The defeat was a good thing in a few more steps can be taken to return – More then just dumping the ACORN elements

also get away from this short term instant mentality

"More then just dumping the ACORN elements"

There were no acorn elements except for the acorns stuffed in the cheeks of fat Republican squirrels. Blaming ACORN is typical Republican lies and distraction. There was nothing in the bill for ACORN and to say otherwise is a lie.

we can go back in time and read some historic posts on trail mix about the economy...many here saw this mess coming, HRC saw it coming. I remember when sturg found the original rendition of 'dry bones' and posted it when we were discussing the interconnected nature of the economy and how the housing bust coupled with gas speculation/price rise would bring the economy to its knees.

Leaders? Brilliant tacticians? Didn't see this coming? I think every member of the congress should be considered self-employed...commission paid by their performance. This would be better than term limits since experience means nothing. Foresight? There is little hindsight.

Sock...Correct - it was removed - It was in the package from Nancy, Harry, Barney and Chris.
Please why is it when the facts are presented such language is used.
Is it correct that a certain demographic Dem group also voted strongly against ? Why....

And Sock thank you for supporting that the ACORN elements are a substantial part of the problem.
I think I am going to send Nancy P a stuffed Kitten with sneakers

if I hear the phrase "coming together" anymore, I will lose it...unless of course, they are talking about Sarah Palin's legs!

and Pelosi even wore her hair "up" yesterday, a la Palin, and it didn't work!

Ping Pong
BS. It was never in there and you are the victim of a Republican lie.

And here's Frank's one-page summary of the Affordable Housing Trust Fund and to find the relevant bill go here and search for H.R. 2895.

State and local governments can then dole out the funds and could send money to ACORN if they so choose and if the organization's efforts meet the standards set out in the law. For their stand against the provision, Adamske tweaked House Republicans, who have long called for more state control of federal funds.

"Are they worried that the Governor of Alaska and the Mayor of Wasilla will give money to Acorn?" he asked.

Republicans looks for scapegoats what happened to the policy of personal responsibility.

Ping Pong
ACORN has nothing to do with the problems.
That's your bogus claim. Try getting information from someplace besides Rush Limbaugh's butt.

Flatus,
I didn't answer your question, because I have no idea how they're going to fix this. But I'll tell you who's fault I think it was that we got into it in the first place.

Many people didn't know (did not want to know) how unrealistic their ability to pay off those loans were when they signed the documents. People sign loans emotionally. with one goal in mind, to get what they want. That's why they need an unemotional professional they can trust to explain the terms of these loans to them honestly and in a way they'll understand. The lenders should have been required to qualify them at the higher rate on adjustible rate mortgages(since they knew they had no place to go but up). To expect the average buyer to understand that (or care, since they don't want to) is expecting too much. At that moment, they'll agree to anything to get that house. The person packaging the loan should be the one held accountable. That was their job, and they didn't do it.

If this is going to go through, they'll have to give brankruptcy judges more power to order loan modifications and provide more alternatives for home owners.

This is all taking on a "Your Fault - Las Midnight"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhC2DFlKvoY

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/bailout-politics.html#comment-152463
"The Core of what happens with the congress must be to return to the FUNDAMENTALS of our Economy.
The problem has been created and is absolutely are result of our Government passing laws that are counter to the Fundamentals.
It is not simple but values and Principles must be the rule!"

Pogo,
I couldn't agree more. The role of our government is to provide leadership, protections and oversight. Not to be involved in our daily lives. They're the one's guiding this ship, and they've taken us way off course.

Sock

From a monetary value and impact ACORN in and of itself is minor - However the overriding fact is the drive to move away from the sound FUNDAMENTALS of our Economy in the behavior of many in the Government is the root cause.
Laws of physics apply also to Economics.

Give it a cycle and either Obama must change his ways... afterall he is about change or we are in big trouble

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/bailout-politics.html#comment-152476
That post was to Ping pong

Acorn -
So yes you now agree that ACORN was allowable in the Bill and referenced in the comments by the Dems.

WHY EVEN GO THERE?

I am not against helping with low income housing - I support Habbitat. But sorry Barney - you and your Dem friends wrong to even allow one drop of that in the bill -

Barney - you are part of the problem

http://www.politico.com/blogs/thecrypt/0908/ACORN_issue_fueling_bailout_opposition.html

Ping Pong

That is different legislation and does not reference ACORN at all. The only people bringing up ACORN are republicans hoping to distract attention from their own bad behavior.

Republican liars are using ACORN as a scapegoat and you are a sucker for falling for it.

Chole,
You are spot on!
And we are paying a high price.

I feel that these prediatory short sighted incentive loan sharks should pay a price.

The Governement that PUSHED to let this happen must pay a price - that comingled social policy with fiscal economic policy - FAILED (watch out for the old Barack -same thing)

And we must Educate the People - so they can not be taken advantage. And if not sorry to say we must protect them - which the IRONIC situation is the Dem Policy backfired

Ping Pong from the link you posted

"None of you rightwing idiots understand. No funds are being directed to ACORN or anyone else in this bailout language. ACORN is composed of several different entities, just like the NRA and any other organization that deals with community outreach. Oh, and the House Republicans WILL vote for the bailout because they know that if they don't we will be in a depression. They are coming up with this whole, "We are going to stop ACORN" thing to pacify clueless idiots like you so that when they vote for taxpayer dollars to be used they can claim a victory. A fabricated victory."

ACORN is a straw argument based on a lie. Your positions must be very weak to be built on that kind of a foundation.

But Ping Pong. Both sides failed.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/bailout-politics.html#comment-152429

Flatus,

This isn't about "bailing out" the homeowner. It is about giving bankruptcy judges the ability to renegotiate a loan so that people who are losing their homes for reasons beyond their control (600,000 lost jobs, skyrocketing medical costs, predatory fees etc.).
That way they wouldn't lose their only asset, but would still pay back the loan.

Congratulations Jason!

When you are famous, we can say we knew you at the beginning of a stellar career.

If y'all want to take this "economic meltdown" thing seriously that's fine with me......but I have to go out now and see if I can scare up another pack of baloney and enough gas to get within walking distance of the shop..........

"And we must Educate the People - so they can not be taken advantage. And if not sorry to say we must protect them - which the IRONIC situation is the Dem Policy backfired"

Predatory lenders are a Republican policy.
Now you are talking about educating people? Funny, one of the biggest programs for financial literacy is through ACORN

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/bailout-politics.html#comment-152478

compassionate to his fellow man also.

There already is the highest rate of homelessness in decades and the housing market is already in the tank

In Cleveland and Detroit they are bulldozing vacant foreclosed homes.

This is not an abstract notion in the future.

Predatory lenders need to be held accountable. Period.

And there need to be laws in place to make sure they are.

No one's clean in this mess

"I loathe populism. But if there ever has been a moment when reasonable men's hands itch for the pitchfork, this must surely be it. No one is blameless. No one is pure. Two decades of crapulence by the political class has been prologue to the era of coprophagy that is now upon us. It is crap sandwiches for as far as the eye can see."
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-goldberg30-2008sep30,0,5468292.column

Chiming in on Flatus' comment:

"I'm really not particularly sympathetic about bailing out home owners with my tax dollars."

Allowing bankruptcy judges to modify loan terms on debtors' principal residence would in all likelihood result in costing taxpayer's less--here is a detailed explanation of the benefits of allowing bankruptcy judges to modify loans.

It is a practical solution to a condition that is at the core of the current crisis.

And absolutely yes, I believe this provision should be incorporated into any bailout/rescue legislation---it has been a throwaway so far.

"Mortgage modification in Bankruptcy: Redux"

http://www.creditslips.org/creditslips/2008/09/mortgage-modifi.html

chloe,

when I saw that link you posted I had a feeling that the writer was gonna be Jonah Goldberg. He certainly parrots the rightwing message. What a Gopper!

"Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich was working aggressively behind the scenes to defeat the Wall Street rescue plan minutes before he himself released a public statement in support of the package, NBC's Andrea Mitchell reported on Tuesday."

"Andrea, I could hug you for saying that, because I was told last night by two or they members of Congress that this was the opening salvo of Newt Gingrich's presidential campaign four years hence."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/30/report-gingrich-stabbed-b_n_130487.html

Torpedo, How convenient it must be to dismiss everything you don't agree with as rightwing. Categories make some people so comfortable.

chloe,

Jonah is without a doubt a rightwing nut. Go back and look at his books and his tv stuff on Fox Snooze Channel. It is convenient to beable to dismiss dribble when I see it. Sorry that you cannot.

Dog eyes view, oh, I mean Torpedo.

When all else fails, just go for the personal attacks.
Good job!

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/bailout-politics.html#comment-152496

TV, Not only right wing, but someone who got his job by lapping up the garbage spewed by his mother during the Clinton / Lewinsky scandal.

no sorry chloe I am not Dog eye view I am definitely a guy.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/bailout-politics.html#comment-152498

you dont see this as a personal attack? Might want to clean your glasses.

Better yet why not go ahead right now and confess your Republican roots on TM. You really are fooling anyone.

Jamie, I can always count on you. Thanks.

Forever wrong Torpedo. But hey, at least your consistent.

whatever mrs rightwing nut

Whateva Torpedo.

We may need to sponsor an intervention on TM to help those conflicted in the political stances. We seem to have a few that really think they are independent instead of full blown Replugs

Torpedo,

Whateva
"Just nice way to say Fu*k you "
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Whateva

nice talk there little lady. Do you kiss you babies with that mouth? Back at ya!

Whateva Torpedo.

Drink the koolaide or we will kill you

Slavish adherence to the cult- the slogan of the Obamaramans

For the bailout before they realized it was a piece of crap.
Followers not leaders.

ok I need to go check myself since Chloe was so good a taking my man hood see yall later

Hey troll, (yeah you Chloe) whateva

oooooh. Troll. Now that's something you haven't called me in a while.

Don't leave mad.
Just leave.

"Yesterday I engaged in an e-mail spat with a prominent Obama Bot/Clinton hater from the primaries about my criticisms of Barack Obama during the primaries. This Obama Bot of course was so blinded by his Obama worship, that he had no idea that I have been criticizing Obama's post-partisan unity schtick since long before the primaries. My first post in the summer of 2006 was titled What Obama Needs To Learn Hofstadter, Lincoln And FDR and argued for, as I have since I began blogging in 2003, a Politics of Contrast. Krugman was on it in early 2007. The other day I wrote about the fact that Even Doris Kearns Goodwin Is For a Politics of Contrast and wants more FDR from Obama:"
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/9/30/997/05819

Big Tent Democrat speaks for me too.

I don't think you should have given Mrs Pelosi a pass--her performance was pathetically inept. And, she's second in line? That, I lose sleep over.

Posted by: Flatus

Flatus,

I don't know how to praise Pelosi, words fail me, and can only say that I marveled at her comments coming at such a critical moment. It reflects well on her perspicacity and it spoke of Pelosi's inherent wisdom, and I say unabashedly that I look forward to her working closely with Obama, to exploit every known partisan divide. Obama has already shown a divine faculty for dividing our nation by race, age, sex and culture, so this added partisanship is just a natural extension to Obama's own agenda.

Flatus, regarding your lack of sleep I have a modest suggestion. If you just fasten your concerns with your cash under your mattress, you'll find that the bloody small and dwindling lump won't disturb you much.

regards, toast

KGC

That is a great editorial. Obama is being too careful and conciliatory. The mood of the country is change. The states he is still failing to bring over are the ones where huge numbers of very average people have been the most injured by this administration.

The way to get them across the color barrier is to become their champion. FDR is about as good a model as he could get.

Jamie

I love Armando.

The NBC First Read is excellent today with more than enough blame to go around.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/

A measure of real power: Bush could only get four Texans to vote for the bill and McCain couldn't get a single critter from Arizona.

A measure of real power: Bush could only get four Texans to vote for the bill and McCain couldn't get a single critter from Arizona.

Posted by: Jamie

Jamie,

The Congressional Black Caucus after hearing the entreaties of BO personally resulted in a mere 13 out of 40 CBC members voting for the bill, with more than two thirds rejecting his appeal. If the voters locations and numbers are the key details you used as an arbiter Jamie, then you are selective in your judgment.

regards, toast

Today's Arena hosts a bunch of decent and different ideas for confronting both the policy and politics of the credit crisis.

The Arena
Bailing out the bailout? Is there a better way:
http://www.politico.com/arena/

Random but:

Diamonds or Pearls?

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/bailout-politics.html#comment-152526

MQ

I honestly hadn't checked Obama, but just to keep it apples and oranges. tell me how did the Illinois congressional folks vote? Perhaps you think Obama only represents the Black Caucus rather than a state?

Up above I expressed dissatisfaction that Obama wasn't behaving more like FDR rather than maintaining his somewhat hands off approach to the situation.

Thanks Chloe, for you input on what to do. I agree with your comment, "The role of our government is to provide leadership, protections and oversight. Not to be involved in our daily lives. They're the one's guiding this ship, and they've taken us way off course."

"He gave our people freedom but we just can't learn how to use it," wrote Lebedev, who said the provisional name of the new party is the 'Independent Democratic Party'.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080930/ts_nm/us_russia_gorbachev_party

Hope Gorby is plutonium-proof.

Meanwhile, in the little Benelux (Belgium, Nederland, Luxembourg) the banking sector is failing rapidly...

Mon 29/09/08 16:18 (UPDATE video) - The Dutch-Belgian banking giant Fortis NV will be partially nationalized. The governments of Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxembourg are injecting €11.2 billion euros to rescue the bank after investor confidence plunged last week.

And now Dexia: Mon 29/09/08 16:18 (UPDATE video) - The Dutch-Belgian banking giant Fortis NV will be partially nationalized. The governments of Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxembourg are injecting €11.2 billion euros to rescue the bank after investor confidence plunged last week.

Other banks in a heap of trouble including KBC, one of the largest. So far ING seems to not be in the same situation.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/bailout-politics.html#comment-152541

That's our boy, I'm sure his big sisters are proud.

Jack

ET--"So far ING seems to not be in the same situation." Glad to hear that..they own my broker.

Like I've said before, it's time to reenact the usury laws that went out with Reagan. Once that's done, then we can start looking at individual pieces of paper.

Posted by Flatus

I agree !!!

Flatus then wrote:

I'm really not particularly sympathetic about bailing out home owners with my tax dollars.

Posted by: Flatus | September 30, 2008 7:52 AM

This I do NOT agree...

Nothing to see in that bedroom move along.

We need to back up and realize one thing when wondering who could deliver what for the vote...

Representatives look at Senators with a bit of disdain. To think they would fall in line with either McCain or Obama without paying any regard to their own districts is foolish. All politics is local and if you want to keep your seat you do what's best for you.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/30/report-gingrich-stabbed-b_n_130487.html

If current members were more easily swayed by Newt than their current leadership, I suspect that McCain wouldn't have fared better because he's not well like within the caucus and has never been in leadership.

Could the Democrats gotten more votes? Sure. Scarborough tried to paint this as a Pelosi failure, but why should the opposition party be made to carry the water for the President in this case? The Republicans have been dying for a way to run against Bush and too many saw this as their issue to do so and the Democrats were not willing to oblige.

I am shocked, shocked!

House members who supported the bailout yesterday received 54 percent more campaign money from securities and bank interests than those who voted no, according to a study by MAPlight.org, a non-profit that studies campaign finance.
http://primebuzz.kcstar.com/?q=node/14705

LOL
Looks like they didn't buy enough congress critters.

Jack

good a taking my man hood see yall later"

Thought you left to take care of your man hood Dog eyes view. That was quick. (Since we're calling a spade a spade).

Jack LOL !!! Good one

No Jamie. You're wrong.
I accused her of being Torpedo, who said he/she was a man.

But it's good to know you're still here for me Jamie.

Threadbanging on blistersyeahbutchannel

Gore -serial exaggerator?
Kerry - effete elite?
What are 2008's false media narratives

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4egXbhSOhk

There always are.

Shaky French-Belgian Bank Gets $9 Billion Injection

By MATTHEW SALTMARSH
Published: September 30, 2008
PARIS — Dexia, a French-Belgian lender, received a capital injection of more than $9 billion from public shareholders on Tuesday as the credit crisis continued to shake European banks, while Irish authorities backed all deposits in the country’s banks.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/01/business/worldbusiness/01dexia.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Further in the article it says:

"For the moment, the largest European banks — including Barclays and HSBC of Britain, Deutsche Bank, ING of the Netherlands and BNP Paribas of France — have yet to record subprime write-offs on the scale of their American counterparts. They have not suffered steep losses in investor confidence because they are broadly diversified."

Chloe

Read your own message:

"Dog eyes view, oh, I mean Torpedo."

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/bailout-politics.html#comment-152501

Afternoon all.

Man, this working for a living thing is a real drag - cuts into my blogging time in a big way.

I see the Dow has recovered about 1/3 of its loss from yesgterday - I guess that means there has not bee a report of another big US bank failure, GDP drop, unemployment increase, housing start decline, oil futures falling report out this morning? And of course, Congress ia taking today AND TOMORROW off. What is the day after Rosh Hashanah called anyway? Wednesday?

I don't believe you Dog Eyes View.
I think you're a closet Troll.
Let's just call a Troll a Troll. OK?

How's it feel to be called something you deny?

Hey Chloe I am baaaaaack! I found my masculinity in tack. No damage.

ahhhhh (deep exhale)
just logged on--reading the comments.

Chloe, you never fail to inform and entertain when all else fails. said it before--like your tenacity! Nice to read from someone who knows where they come from. A breath of fresh air.

Fan of Chloe

The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.

You've admitted in the past that you used an alias to insult me.
So I assume you'd lie again.
Why would I think otherwise of someone who would come in and attack me repeatedly before I've even said a word to them?

You're a dishonest Troll Dog Eyes View.
And everyone here should know that up front, because they're all very concerned with sources.

believe what you want but as you said, "you are wrong" Mrs Chloe if that is in fact your real name.

OK, OK, fill in the blank:

Torpedo Vindicator is to ___________ as Laszlo Toth is to Don Novello.

Fuhgodssake, lighten up, folks. It's politics, not nuclear physics.

What's your real name, Torpedo. Bully?

Chloe Troll is a Paid Troll I believe for the Rightwingnuts. She won't admit it but I believe after reading the crap she posts there could not be another reason.

Funny thing, The reason Dexia was on the verge of imminent collapse was because of too much investment in USA

"Dexia is the one of the world's largest lenders to local governments, but has run up significant losses in its US operations"

Last month Dexia announced it was overhauling its loss-making US bond insurance unit, Financial Security Assistance - which made a loss of $330m in the second quarter of this year because of the sub-prime housing crisis.
The group has also been hit by the collapse of the US investment bank Lehman Brothers.

[snip] BBC news

When's a "Troll" a good thing

Another topic: when we were kids my brother and I each had a troll doll. We were told that if you wished for something and pulled on the troll's hair you would get your wish. We were in the midst of the 1965 tornados in Minnesota and we kept pulling on the trolls' hair and wishing that none of them would hit our house, which they didn't. When the whole danger was over, we were convinced our troll wishing saved us and our home.

So, remember, trolls have feelings too... and MAGICAL POWERS!

Torpedo whateva

threadworms

by popular demand a special second threadicilous
"My sh-t don't stink but yours does."

toast,
you think I'll be comfortable with the huge lump under my mattress?

"Chloe Troll is a Paid Troll I believe for the Rightwingnuts"

Gee, what a coincidence.
The same thing Dog eyes view has said for months now.
hmm.
I must be really rich with all the work I've been accused of doing here by Dog.

Chloe,

Dog's Eye has been around for years. She is one of the originals from long before this election, and she will be around long after this election.

btw, put me in the pro-chloe camp. I appreciate your being the target and being willing to take the heat. (btw, did you now that there are only 2 political positions - Obama supporter and Republican? That's what I get from all this.

Thanks pogo. You actually make me feel misty.
(You've got to understand that you can back off only so long)

And Dogs eye view, I've said it before and I'll say it again.
You're obsessed with me.

The only thing that is going to change about the bailout is the name. Everyone is now calling it a rescue.

The Republicans are going to be laughing all the way to the bank.

*Ding! Ding!*

End of round 1. Will everyone please go to your neutral corners!

Hypocritta, no one is trying to shut Chloe up we are just trying for some transparency here. Says one thing and then leads us to right wing material. I really don't care if she is a GDI or a Repug but I could like some consistency. Dog eye view is right on the money in her assessment of Chloe. Simple as that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvWMLAWrEjU

"I am disturbed by your destructive potential"

Coming from you, that's laughable.
But consistent with what you've said for months now.

I think you're both divisive and scary
Very, very dangerous..

we are topedo Mrs Chloe. Why should I?

Well, it was my day to feed the Trolls.

They're awfully hungry today.
Who's next?

to add to the post above

I don't owe you anything there mrs chloe. Yes mam I be good. You can pat my head.

ooooh no, I could never touch you.
Thanks though.

What we need to realize is that the way the credit markets are behaving right now, it's like a high school or college party where you have boys on one side and girls on the other. The boys, banks and girls are businesses.

You usually need an ice breaker to get both sides mingling...like booze or some good herb. The bailout plan is said mind altering substance.

Once people have lightened up and the band/DJ start with good tunes, great times are had by all...

I used this analogy with a bunch of realtors and they got a kick out of it...lol

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/bailout-politics.html#comment-152615

I really hate to admit this, but LOL

The Obamatrons got the election in the bag Chloe and they still have to be jerks about it. A good reason to fear their impending reign. I'm sure the sword will swing swiftly in their hands. Either way, just let them have their orgy of ignorance; ain't worth it.

Damn, that was poetic. Way to go, champ.

What took you so long Champ?

Eh, I got better things to do than entertain these retards.

Me too.
I'd better get out a here.

No difference between the neocons and the neolibs--same animal different clothing.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/bailout-politics.html#comment-152624

Bye Bye

Further, this blog does not revolve around you.

Et Tu

Hello everyone, love the site! Been watchin Craig for a few years on Imus, and he is my favorite guest of all time-"alll tiiime" as Werner Wolfe would say. This is just a thought from maybe a different perspective on this bail-out. I live in Ala-freakin-bama, where, you can imagine, we have our fair share of bad home loans, of which, I have one. Mine is not a variable rate loan, but a high-rate loan, and when I took the loan, I was working 50 miles away from the house making good money and was able to afford my payments, maybe not as comfortably as one would want, but I was able to swing it. As gas prices rose, I found a job closer to home, and with the overtime they promised minus the gas, I was gonna lose very little, plus, get to see the kids more and all that jazz. Well, I'm a machinst working in mostly stuff for civil defense and space exploration, and let me tell you, they are putting the brakes on that stuff. Casualty of which is overtime, and am now struggling to keep up with my mortgage, actually 2 months behind, and without some help, will lose the house. I am not askin for money, just would love to see maybe some tweakage of my interest, or something along those lines. Does this bill as it reads help me at all? Should I be glad it failed? Does anyone think the 2nd incarnation of this bill will be more helpful? Why can't the demo's just load the bill up for the struggling homeowner and rely on themselves to pass the bill, forget the republicans?

Is that what you had in mind, Bear?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXbb6x2kNcI&feature=related

Bye Bye to you too Jamie.
Thanks.

dont go away Mad Chloe

as you said earlier, "just go away"

Oh Torpedo.
Don't worry about that.
I haven't been mad today.

Corey ROFL!!!!!!

Chloe wins TKO in the 8th.

Jamie was telling you to shoo.

I'd like to offer the opinion that if you go to a political blog site such as this and you are unable or unwilling to respond to the critique of your ideas by a method other than personal attack, you don't belong as a poster on the site.

I'd like to think we are all adults here but time and again that notion is dispelled. Just like with out current government, there is plenty of blame to go around.

There was a point in time where this place was a true community of opposing ideas and where you could engage in conversation without things devolving into personal attacks. When one person got way over the line, he was banned by Craig.

If you wish to throw poop at one another like angry monkeys, create your own arena for such purposes please.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/bailout-politics.html#comment-152629

Pigg, I hope you have contacted your lender. They really don't want more vacant housing. You might be able to get your loan renegotiated or some forbearance for a year or two that temporarily drops your interest rate. There is always the possibility of interest only that would tack some time on the end of the loan once principal payments resume.

The important thing is to talk to someone. Whatever you do, read the fine print. One of the biggest scams is the "rent your home" where you are actually quit claiming your own property, so be sure you know what your are signing.

Thanks nick.

What a dope a roping.

Hey Pigg
Welcome. I don't think you should wait for Congress to act .
But these folks might be able to help you.
http://www.naca.com/index_main.jsp or at least refer you to someone who can.

IMO -there is too much pressure for Congress to act quickly for substantive changes in the current legislation. I think the Democrats have alternative plans but will wait until 2009 to introduce them

However, if a miracle happened and Democrats introduced their own bill it might look something like this.
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/9/29/183210/355

Good luck. Unfortunately I think your story is quite common these days.

Corey...exactly...lol

I hope it is. I miss him.
But I'd never accuse Animal Control of that.
He's just as real as anyone else here.

Jamie was telling you to shoo."

who cares

Corey

You always provide a thoughtful laugh good to see you around the blog.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/bailout-politics.html#comment-152638

now wait a sec, bear. i never "banned" anybody. i have suggested taking a break to some, but that's as far as it goes.

for those offended by the behavior of the few, again let me suggest using the IGNORE button in your head. i do that with some screen names and find plenty of other good conversation to read

Welcome Pigg, thanks for sharing

We are whom we want to be--all I need is to please myself.
So there
tongue out at you nutcases--yuk.

Except Obam he is all things to all nuts!
Squirels love Obama.

Well, it's better to laugh here than fight, KGC. I guess the election can't get here soon enough.

nanny, you know it was.

These aren't disagreements. These have been personal attacks on me.

Well you did say stay away until he apologized to Richard...which turned out to be a ban because Fritz lacked the character to avoid making the comment in the first place or actually express regret for it after the fact...

Your clarification is noted however...

If Pakastan was a failed state before Musharaff's coup...what is it now?

http://worldblog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/09/30/1469342.aspx

"This is no longer just a Wall Street crisis. It's an American crisis, and it's the American economy that needs this rescue plan," Obama told about 12,000 people at a rally at the University of Nevada at Reno.

Obama said Congress should put aside politics — he didn't mention GOP rival John McCain by name during his remarks — and should act on the legislation "
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/09/30/politics/p102207D18.DTL&tsp=1

Pigg.. we share a few things in common,
Beyond the Pand G...
Because the Republicans stopped the bill the opportunity to have a smarter bill to help people in your situation is possible.
We must also protect against the failded policy that creatred this mess,
We cannot give more cocaine to the addict.

Sock...
Back to the earlier conversation..... If you are out there (I am working to close our fiscal year end - so limited)

If I miss spoke regarding the attempts to place ACORN in the Bill then stand corrected.

The drive to help with housing is important but cannot PREEMPT fundamental economic common sense as it has. This is the core problem

Congressman Barbara Lee voted no on the bailout and no on the AUFM

Right then and right now.

Chloe,
I find your post very factual and intellectual. You are a middle of the road-er

I already told you multiple times.
I assumed it was you because you have said the exact same things so many times in the past.

I suggest you go back to the beginning and look how it went.
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/bailout-politics.html#comment-152498

If that wasn't you, then why did you insert yourself so readily into it when you got here. No, don't answer that.

I'll ask you once more as I have for a long time now.

DO NOT ADDRESS ME AND SKIP OVER MY POSTS and I will do you the same honor. Leave me alone.

Well said Pogo.

"find your post very factual and intellectual. You are a middle of the road-er "

Ping pong,
Thank you so much for saying that.
This has been really tiresome today, because I decided to answer each and every insult thrown my way.

I'll never do this again.
But what you said means so much to me.
Thanks again.

This will be an interesting ad...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/30/mccain-ad-uses-president_n_130559.html

I wonder why Bill Clinton has been effusive in his praise for John McCain considering that McCain made the joke about Chelsea being fathered by Janet Reno?

Wouldn't you be more angry about that instead of the Schuster "pimping her out" comment?

The Bailout Defeat: A Political Credibility Crisis.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20080930/us_time/thebailoutdefeatapoliticalcredibilitycrisis;_ylt=AkckWDnCNHC5VbUtujnxAVys0NUE

McCain publicly apologized for the "joke."

Have any of the people who attacked the Clintons?

Chloe wins again.
TKO in the 2nd.

Thanks, Bear.

Bear

This is one of the things that makes me disrespect McCain or at least his campaign. He knows who both Pres. and Sen. Clinton have endorsed and are supporting, yet grabs a quote out of context to use as an ad soundbite. He is either totally dishonest or thinks that his potential supporters are incredibly stupid.

Either way, the Old John McCain and the New one that has sold his soul for the sake of an office are either two entirely different people or the old one was a fraud.

pogo, you were right in your observation that there now seem to be only 2 kinds of acceptable posters bho'rs or repugs... imo anyone who is in the least bit creative or shall we say eccentric risks being (in your well put words) "unfairly and mercilessly attacked and driven off for daring to hold an opinion other than the only opinion allowed"...

I see the Dow has gained back almost half of what it lost yesterday - and on the prospect of maybe, sorta reaching some kind of deal that may make the big banks and the people who make decisions based on their health happy. Good thng for those retirement accounts and the people who hold them.

very nice of ya'll to comment on my post, actually got some great info, and have added some links to my fav's, you people rule! anyway, no matter my personal situation, i do derive a certain amount of personal satisfaction from stagnate government. Cuz things'll never get better, so, isn't it almost just as nice to see things just get catastrauphically (did i spell that right?) worse? or is it just me?

Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs Repugs

Hypocritta,

So it would seem then that the Clinton's harbor more hurt feelings from Democrats saying they played the race card instead of John McCain calling Chelsea an ugly girl and that Hillary was a Lesbian?

As much as I like Bill Clinton, that is hardly reassuring.

patd, you mean either you're 'fore us" or against us?

McCain apologized. James Clyburn made his remarks permanent.

Ping Pong,

I have a question for you with regards to the idea of trickle down economics...

If one wishes to use nautical metaphors, isn't a rising tide which lifts all boats a better idea in practice rather than having water trickle down on the same boats? Wouldn't it take a biblical storm to generate enough rain to float those boats?

When I picture trickle down, I am left with the impression that you either get a pittance or a tsunami which ends up destroying everything in its wake...

McDonald's spokesman William Whitman declined to verify the memo's authenticity.

``McDonald's franchisees currently have credit access through 50 regional banks and seven national institutions,'' said company spokesman Walt Riker. ``We recognize current trends, but we want to make it clear that McDonald's and McDonald's franchisees have a variety of sources to get cash.''
from the posted link.

Bring Back McRib!

the democrats are the majority in the house'
they could pass any bill '' if they could get together
and agree on something'

Well said, Pogo.

McCain offered a half asses apology after he fired up his base at a fundraiser. The Clinton's were willing to accept it, fine with them.

Clyburne stated an opinion on behalf of many others who felt that President Clinton was acting in a way that was untoward and unacceptable. When I heard Clinton's comments in South Carolina, my first reaction was "what an ass". The Clinton's held the majority of the black vote until that primary and the only reason they moved to Obama is because people began to see that his campaign may have legs. After that the Clinton's sought to marginalize Obama's campaign as that of just a black candidate and that pissed people off.

"There are African Americans who have reached the decision that the Clintons know that she can't win this," he told Reuters. "But they're hell-bound to make it impossible for Obama to win."

Speaking with the New York Times, Clyburn said such actions could lead to a longtime division between the former president and his once most reliable constituency.

"When he was going through his impeachment problems, it was the black community that bellied up to the bar," Clyburn said. "I think black folks feel strongly that this is a strange way for President Clinton to show his appreciation."

nanny, I've only read what's been in the paper, and haven't had the time to read the actual report. suspect it won't say a lot we don't know, but I'll suspend judgment until I've read it. I'll try to remember to comment after I have, but as I said, this working for a living ... and I have to go back to it, so ttfn.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/bailout-politics.html#comment-152684

Patd

That isn't quite true. People who hold conservative views do just fine here. You may see disagreements at times, but the conversations go on with minimal name calling. At various times Fry, Flatus, Whiskey etc. have indicated leaning pretty far right. Blue and I among others tend to be in the middle, and of course all the original Obama supporters are pretty far left.

Those of us who were supporting Clinton may now support Obama or a 3rd party candidate and we often mention reservations we have with him as the standard bearer for the Dems.

The problem are the ones who come in all sweetness and light claiming to be one thing and then by their links and comments indicate they are something entirely different and when called on it, do an innocent "who me? whimper".

Right, left, or center just be honest with issue positions and opinions.

For those who think Clyburn is a petty whiner...

Jim launched the pursuit of his dream in 1970 running for the South Carolina House of Representatives. He went to bed a 500-vote winner, and awoke a 500-vote loser. His pragmatic reaction as reported in the local newspaper, "I lost because I didn’t get enough votes," caught the eye of the newly elected governor, John Carl West. He asked James, whom he dubbed "Jim," to join his administration. In accepting the post, James E. Clyburn became the first African American advisor to a South Carolina governor since post Reconstruction.

http://clyburn.house.gov/clyburn-biography.cfm

how do you tie in mccain to the 133 no votes
by the democrats in the house'' he certaintly
does'nt have any influence over them

Now could one of our financial whizzes tell me how the world got into a major loan crises overnight?

That is what is most objectionable about this whole scenario. You don't go from "perking along just fine" to "armageddon is coming" in just 24 hours, yet that is how Bernacke presented the situation.

BTW,

I started predicting that there would be a crash along about 2002 and wondering what was going on with that. You would think some of the powers that be would have noticed what was happening.

Bear,
The rising tide – tides come and go – which is a normal cycle, and if man tries to influence the tides Mother Nature will win in the end.

Same thing here – The policy that was allowed to continue for more years then Bush did rise the tide. This was an artificial tide propped up with agenda’s counter to the sound fundamentals of our economic system.

Now Nature is going to cleanse and the storm is capturing all.

This cannot be allowed to continue.

How did it happen ?

"either you're 'fore us" or against us?"

corey, it makes it challenging when i don't even know who "us" is half the time.

the worlds i inhabit are neither all black nor all white, but beautiful in their complexities.

Bear

I misunderstood. Your original post was a rhetorical question.
Long before Clinton said anything in NC, the racist meme had been set up.

Clyburn's an liar and a hypocrite.

MQW,

There were 95 Dems who voted no.

Jamie - Good Questions - How did the Titanic hit the Iceberg? Difference the Captin goes down with the ship. But not in Washington. We give the addicts more of the same.
Has anyone been calling out for accountability? Who is going to hold the longstanding gaurd out? A few can have a pass - maybe repent...

Bear,

I honestly wasn't lumping you in to the very liberal group. You always struck me as closer to the middle of the spectrum, particularly when it came to financial matters.

Obama is fine with me now, but I do wish he asked some more questions about this bail out. A few more declarative sentences wouldn't hur either. This "John's right" courtesy made me crazy the other night and it ended up in a phony McCain commercial just as the out of context Clinton remarks did.

Jamie,
I still will keep Nancy P statement - Like a Cat with sneakers it snuck up on us...... What a loser

Have you ordered your brown-shirt yet, Jamie? Remember...issues, not personalities! Oh, that's right, you're a hypocrite; I forgot. Sorry.

Hang in there chloe. Independent is the way now.

Pelosi takes victory laps before the victory.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/30/pruden-a-job-for-the-right-woman/

More info about those racist black voters.

"There's no way that I'd vote for Barack Obama just because he and I are both black men." H. Jackson

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/opinion/20080928_Black_vote_swings_mainly_on_the_issues.html

Champ

Your first entry into this space was a flood of obscenities. Nothing about you has changed. I'm all for discussing issues. I'm against phonies.

where is the link for who voted for and against the bill?

I am curious about how the MI delegation voted...I heard a majority voted against it even though they were more than willing to bail out their local auto makers...

I also want to know how uppity 10 commandments guy voted.

Ping Pong, that idiot is one of the reasons why you should embrace and be fearful of the throw the bums out mentality. One the one hand, you can toss idiots like him out of office, ones who take pride in doing nothing...and at the same time fear that a competent Representative could be replaced by the likes of him...

Bear
I really think Mr Clyburn is more interested in promoting his own image than achieving political effectiveness in a collaborative way.

I feel fortunate that I don't live in his district.

MSNBC .... "Another trading day will commence with the closing bell". You gotta love 'em

If you're against "phonies", then why are you supporting Obama?

Fuck Holden Caulfield.

Bear
Final vote

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll674.xml

Here are the votes on the Bail out

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll674.xml

Bear, Michigan delegates voted 9-6 against it. Read here:

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080929/BUSINESS07/80929027

what ever the exact number
point is the house could pass a bill to put
the easter bunny on the dollar bill if they wanted
which come to think of it might reflect its true value
they don't need one republican vote' if they could
get their act together

Bear,
Good points - but how do we really get the facts to make a competent choice? It is very difficult.
I find the more people slam the other and do not take action or address issues- this scares me.
I vote a mixed ticket - always have.

So agree we need not throw out the good with the bad.

Thanks for the vote info...any idea what bill number had the auto industry bailout in it?

Champ

I don't think Obama is a phony. McCain is much more so. I just consider Obama lacking in necessary experience when compared to Clinton, but he is growing into the role and with a good VP and cabinet, he should do just fine.

Certainly there is no one else left other than Obama that I could support and that is including the 3rd party candidates.

Ping, valid points. What I've always feared is the fact that people always think their rep is good while everyone else is bad.

People think Clyburn is a self agrandizer yet when he supported Clinton during his presidency, that wasn't a popular view point.

Flatus, to your point, there are very few in Congress who don't fit your description.

I never realized that I lived within a half mile of a US Senator when I was back in RI. I guess it's always strange that someone with such power would still live in a working class neighborhood...the same house for 30+ years, but it happens.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/bailout-politics.html#comment-152728

mqw

Of course they could, but why should they put their necks on the line for an unpopular vote on a bill from an unpopular President who can't even get a majority of his party to vote for it.

oh so the democrats are playing politics with this crisis
suprised me

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/bailout-politics.html#comment-152704

Well said, jamie.

mqw, no one ties McCain to the dems who voted no, at least no one who's thinking halfway right. The repubs who voted against it - that's a different matter isn't it? Because McCain very publicly suspended his campaign (not really, but ceremoniously, sort of) to show leadership and get the deal done - and also very publicly criticized Obama for "phoning it in" before Obama spent as much time in DC as McCain did trying to get the bill passed - he set himself up for the criticism he's getting now. When 2/3 of his party vote against the bill that the president, also his party, is begging for, warning of dire consequences in the economy if it isn't passed, and is doing a full court press to pass then sees the bill die, he deserves criticism for failing to deliver the leadership he essentially promised and was trying to sell. It was particularly gratifying to hear all the republican congressmen laud his effective efforts (before the bill was voted on and defeated at the hands of his own party, of course - after which they became eerily quiet about how effective he had been) then see the bill die with less than 1/3 of his party supporting it. There's some old saw about counting chickens before they hatch that strikes me as fairly appropriate here.

Bear, doesn't everyone in Rhode Island live within 1/2 mile of a US Senartor? ' ;-)

does'nt change the basic fact the democrats
are in the majority
the republicans passed all kinds of crazy stuff
in the house when they were the majority
most of it didn't go any where in the senate
but they still pushed it through because they
were in the MAJORITY

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/bailout-politics.html#comment-152736

mqw, some who voted for and some who voted with were probably voting to keep their seats if that's what you mean by playing politics. Since when is voting on a bill and reflecting yoru perception of the will of your constituents not playing politics, and when has the congress ever put politics aside? Maybe the vote to authorize military force? Nah, that was the biggest exercise of playing politics I can remember. And when is accusing a politician or group thereof of playing politics a criticism? Come on, you aren't as much of a political Pollyanna as you are pretending to be. Are you?

Pogo

It looks like your right. It is either Obama or Republican.

LOL

Jamie thinks I'm a right winger , lol I guess she has never seen the real thing.
Such is the fate of us who wander the reality based center.

Chloe,
Bite your tongue and "Do Not Feed the Trolls"
You offer a great deal to this blog and don't fall for the wing nut tactics. They can't deal with facts and therefor they have to vilify those the view as the opposition.

Jack

mqw, you can't change the fact that this was a republican president's bill, brought up, debated, and voted on at the request of the republican president by a house with democrats in the majority. McCain and Boner could not mobilize their caucus to support their own party's president's bill. That, my friend is the bottom line.

Obama supported the bailout. Where was his leadership?

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/bailout-politics.html#comment-152719

Rez, I don't think anyone believed that black people would vote for Obama ONLY because he was black. I think what Clinton was pointing out that got so badly twisted was that given two respectable candidates, people will vote with their hearts and therefor it is natural that instead of a 50/50 or 60/40 split between two Democratic candidates, you got an 85/15.

That isn't racist, that is simply given a choice between almost identical positions it is natural to be proud of one of your own.

valid point Pogo...so long as they don't live in Newport...lol

Pogo

I am suprised they got the votes they did. There needs to be some real education for the public to buy into this whole thing. Someone needs to start treating the public like they had a brain. All of this chicken little tactics is no longer working. Who trusts anything bush says? Congress is even less trustworthy.

My congressman, Emanuel Cleaver, did as I instructed and voted against it.

Jack

Nothing for homeowners in any discussed revisions to the bailout .
www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/09/28/national/w151533D30.DTL&tsp=1

higher FDIC insurance
End of mark to market (bad idea)
and extension of unemployment benefits

Jack

I don't think you are a right winger. I think you lean right on some issues. All politics is a spectrum. Only the most insanely partisan, knee jerk types are always on one side or the other no matter what the issues or facts might be.

jack, you are definitely middle of the road, more conservative on some issues than others and more liberal on some issues than others from what I can tell. Maybe you are a hard line right winger - compared to some strong liberals (as long as you aren't compared to strong conservatives, or it's back to the center for you, buddy).

good advice to chloe - I think she's been trying to get the worst offenders to leave her the hell alone - and hasn't had a lot of luck with that.

Well, I gotta fly - literally. I'll be doing the traveling thing for the next couple of days - maybe tomorrow, maybe Thursday, maybe not. Later, all.

champ, more than 1/2 of the dems voted for the bill - that's where.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/09/bailout-politics.html#comment-152739

mqw

Duh! and there is still a Republican sitting in the WH as you well know. The Democrats could pass anything they wanted, but without a veto proof majority that can over ride a promised Presidential veto, it doesn't amount to a hill of beans. You know this as it is something you have been told several times. You are not stupid, so you must just like arguing

Champ,

As I said earlier, no self respecting house member would take marching orders from a Senator. There is an interbody rivalry between them and they look down at Senators.

It was not the job of either candidate to whip up votes for the cause. Now I know that McCain has mocked Obama for "monitoring the situation" but there is something to be said for letting the process play out. If the Republicans believe that the markets should work themselves out, why can't a politician believe that a legislative body that he doesn't belong to can work itself out?

(and Patsi never let her forget it)

Lardass Liberal was the poster who never let Chef Sheila forget her Reagan vote.

Here is a pretty good article on auto industry bailout

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/us-house-approves-25-billion/story.aspx?guid=%7B903404D5-A88C-4E2E-B716-88431801304C%7D&dist=hppr

"Rez, I don't think anyone believed that black people would vote for Obama ONLY because he was black."

Jamie, I don't want to belabor the topic, but I thought is was an interesting POV so I linked it. I would remind you that there were/are several here that always made it a point to wonder out loud "if whites voting for Hill MIGHT be considered racist, then why isn't it racist for all the blacks to vote for Obama ".

they can pass any bill through the house
does'nt mean its make it through the senate
or winds up on the presidents desk for a signature
or veto to become law
i'm not a democrat or republican''
just a contrarian'''

All I know is if you're going to play the martyr card, squat in the street and pour gasoline on yourself in protest, you can bet that someone is going to walk by and flick a cigarette butt your way and when they do, don't be shocked if they toast a marshmallow for smores either.

Rez,

Along the lines of the Clinton vote, I'll hold with my opinion. Given a choice between two fairly equal candidates, people will vote for those most like themselves.

The number of women voting for Clinton in many places equaled the kind of percentages we saw in blacks voting for Obama. They each had their cheerleaders.

I think there might have been some racism in the anti obama votes in some sections of the country, but I think the majority was a perceived difference in culture. Clinton again just felt more like them. She might be a Yale graduate and former first lady, but she came across as more "down home" than the Harvard educated Chicago-style, Obama.

Now part of that perceived difference in culture could very well stem from what was necessary for Obama to be elected in the first place: The perfect suit, the beautifully dressed wife, the lovely little girls who look as if they just stepped out of a band box. That just may have worked against him with working class whites more than the shade of his skin.

A white politician can get away with being a Denny Hastert style slob at times. A black politician can't.. There has already been commentary that if the unwed, pregnant daughter was Obama's family instead of Palin's, the hue and cry would have been deafening.

I will be glad when we finally get him elected so that maybe we can put an end to some of these silly perceptions and prejudices.

Shrum And Begala On Obama's Next Bailout Move

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/30/shrum-and-begala-on-obama_n_130444.html

"I think the best thing that Obama can do is keep making his case out in the country," said Paul Begala, a former top political strategist for Bill Clinton and author of Third Term. "He is talking to members behind the scenes. I think if Harry Reid and Speaker Pelosi thought it was helpful for him to come back, he would do it. But I think it is unhelpful. And his job is to make the case for change out there and to win the election."

Added Bob Shrum, a longtime Democratic consultant who has worked on multiple campaigns: "The one thing Obama must do and will do is respect the process and not try to politicize it... You would have to know what congressional leadership and vote counters thought because you want to make sure you contribute to something getting done, and not inadvertently contribute to something not getting done."

Jamie,
Agree - Denny Hastert - and I for some reason think of Barney fife -
But do not be fooled by the slick ones like Chris Dodds,
or the poor ignorant like Nancy P or Harry R

Dems need to have a cleaning of 08 where possible

McCain Ad Distorts Obama, Day After Decrying Gotcha Journalism

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/30/mccain-ad-distorts-obama_n_130626.html

We need to remove all of the STYLE elements and get to POLICY

This will be a problem for the OLD Obama, now I is changing - however still to supportive of the key policy that was hiding behind the kitten with sneakers

Some attorney in a Lenawee County courtroom asked a judge for permission to drop his client, because the attorney said there was no way for his client to pay him. The judge asked the attorney why he should allow him to quit at this point in the trial. The attorney replied, "Because the 13th amendment prohibits involuntary servitude." Needless to say, that angered the judge.

The new Obama youth—sieg heil
Brainwashing America's children.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TW9b0xr06qA

PUMA-"Clinton, a weak man for tough times." for his wife's campaign that is...lol

http://www.nationalenquirer.com/celebrity/64991

And there's this one...glad she's hot...I'm convinced that if Republican's weren't anti curvaceous, Bill Clinton would have gotten a third term...

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/186826.php

NEW THREAD

Her nickname is Liddy.

check this video out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RZVw3no2A4

Lou Dobbs on Imus in the Morning this morning. He isn't interested in any "Crap Sandwiches" the House of Representatives or the Senate are preparing for the American Tax Payer. I hope he drives this point home on his program on CNN.

http://www.wabcradio.com/Article.asp?id=913480&spid=22807