Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Wow, first! I'm almost at a loss for words, almost.......The summer of mockery, how appropos, isn't that what Obama and his campaign are about, mocking people who have accomplishments. Since they have none of their own, they have to belittle those who do.

It might be helpful to him if just once he would add a little sustance to the word change. If people could understand what the word "change" was referencing, they might not feel he was such a risk.........I'm getting to the point now that when I hear the word "change" I look to see if I've spilt something on myself......

Rita

....That should read substance, not sustance. But in his case anything added would be a marked improvement.......

Rita

"...nothing to fear but fear itself..."

http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/fdrfirstinaugural.html

Here's a campaign video Slate bets you've never seen:

http://www.slate.com/id/2196350/

I would say it is the summer of "APPEASEMENT ONE" and 'WITHDRAWAL TWO", the official air force of Obama and the Democ"rat"ic Party.

VJ Machiavelli
http://www.vjmachiavelli.blogspot.com

It will be interesting to see the reporting that will be done on Obama while he is in Hawaii. There are very few press stories about Obamas time in Hawaii. I don't think I ever saw a picture of where Obama lived while in high school.

These videos just keep gettin' better and better!

Obama is still facing a bit of mockery from the Clinton's as well. I doubt that the McCain camp minds.

It's not like the McCain camp has a snowball's chance in hell of getting that flyboy freak into the white house so who cares........IMO

This is a representative democracy.......so I am most comfortably represented by the folks I choose.....Bill and Hillary. So their lead I'll follow......not religiously, but generally by and large........so if they are really, actually, genuinely mocking obama.........I can dig it.

and everyone else can go and take a flying leap at the moon.

I've seen a few of these contests and studied about many more......some I won some I lost.......not a problem............from Ike v Truman in 54 to the current rhubarb.........they will make it work somehow or another the same way Kerry and Gore did......or it's all junk to begin with......and I say there comes a time when you say, "enough".

Hillary 08,

No like? Tough.

the last contest which I felt personally was when simon de montfort lost at the hands of longshanks. That was a sore loss...........after that, the rest is more like theater........not GOOD theater, but nevertheless.......

Love it, Craig,

The Political Dark Arts.

*L* So true.

tt

I thought for sure Craig was gonna be walking into a Trail Mixer's home. LOL!

Amen, Sturge!

This is nuts; I'm totally excited over the fact that there could be a roll call......The only thing that could make me feel better is if Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rice were made to stand in the World Court in the Hague , charged with war crimes. I say the world court because it would go a long way to mending our reputation and proving our love for justice around the world.

Sturge's exuberance has become infectious.....so I will ask an old english question.......A few decades after Longshanks, Richard III, The Duke of Glouster was accused of killing the princes - his nephews in the tower and usurping the throne. Why would Richard have to kill the princes when he, as regent, had the marriage of Edward IV and Katherine Woodville called illegal and the children made bastards because of Edward's prior betrothal promise to Eleanor, the daughter of the Earl of Shrewsbury. Bastards could not inherit, so it made Richard the legitimate heir. There was no need for him to kill them.

However, when Henry Tudor won the war against Richard at Barnet. He took the throne and to legitimize his possession of it decided to marry Elizabeth Plantagenet, eldest daughter of Edward and Kate Woodville. To do this the children had once more to be legitimized, consequently he had more reason to kill the princes than Richard ever did. The story about the wicked uncle just doesn't make sense.

What say you Monfort's man????.............

Rita

RE Hillary Clinton.. this is very interesting

Clintons' role at convention 3:47
Panelists weigh in on Bill and Hillary Clinton's roles at the Democratic National Convention.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/08/06/hillary.clinton.avail.cnn

Makes me even more impressed with Hillary. Suggest you watch the video and share your thoughts...

Tom

Craig, brilliant video, clever...and spot on !!!

Craig, It sounds as though you've learned to not take the game too seriously, while expecting the worst. I'm sure they'll deliver.

Tom,
Thanks for that Hillary link.
She never fails to amaze me with her sincerity and how well she thinks on her feet. Her focus always seems to be where it belongs.

politicallypissed,
It's really nice to hear more from you.
I almost always agree with what you say.

...so if they are really, actually, genuinely mocking obama.....I can dig it. sturgeone

Me too Sturge.

Tony, I left you a post on the last thread. I thought it was really sweet the way you stood up for the women here. Thanks.

Now I need to get some things done.

Yes, thanks for that link Tom. Very good. And Rita -- Like Chloe, I've been really enjoying your posts.

In fact, I really loved this thought from the last thread:

"I can imagine Obama's being a very good president, but at the same time I can imagine his being so-so or even not-so-good. If he is the latter, I'm afraid no one will want to admit it and he'llslide into another term. There is so much riding on his ability to win, and then to be good that it is beyond unsettling."

Rita

When my grandmother died 31-years ago at the age of 98, one of the things she left behind was a book titled 'The Last Plantagenets'. She'd been reading it while she was in her middles 90s.

Inside the book was a sheet of paper in which she had written down all the intertwined relationships. This was done in her beautiful hand that made shame of all the rest of our scribblings. She graduated college in 1901 then taught in a one-room school. She'd tell me how she rode her horse to school and how the older boys would tend to it.

Sometime during the '60s she and my grandfather (they died two weeks apart) were reading the Sunday Plain Dealer when she suddenly pointed out a picture in the paper, "There's my classroom!" Indeed it was and it was being reconstructed in the regional historical society's museum.

That was "3-D House of Pancakes" scary. (Not the political aspect. Just the part with Craig near an open flame.)

Good background music for today's video - Elvis Costello's "Beyond Belief"

"History repeats the old conceits
The glib replies the same defeats
Keep your finger on important issues
With crocodile tears and a pocketful of tissues
I'm just the oily slick..."

The main above-the-fold story in this morning's Journal is on the military tribunal's rebuke of the Bushies. It's a really good read:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121811582864120531.html?mod=hps_us_whats_news

Michael Gerson, on Craig's topic in today's Wash Post op/ed section:

"since Obama's short public career has been conventionally -- in some cases, extremely -- liberal, his tactical shift to the center has been startlingly obvious, on issues from guns to terror surveillance to Iraq, and now (reluctantly) to oil drilling. Says Peter Wehner of the Ethics and Public Policy Center: "Obama's political calculation may be correct, but it still involves a price. It has shattered his claim to be different. It calls into question his political character and leaves the impression he is consumed and defined by ambition."

At least temporarily, Obama's tactics have raised a damning political question: Who is this man? And the McCain campaign has begun to cleverly exploit these concerns, not with a frontal attack on his liberalism or his flip-flops but with a humorous attack on his "celebrity" -- really a proxy for shallowness. The argument is powerful: McCain has roots and convictions. Obama has fans and paparazzi. And Obama's European trip -- more Princess Diana than John Kennedy -- served only to confirm these impressions."

Here's the link to the Washington Post piece:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/07/AR2008080702899.html

It's about time some of the MSM catches up with the rest of us.

" She graduated college in 1901 then taught in a one-room school. She'd tell me how she rode her horse to school and how the older boys would tend to it."

What a wonderful memory, Flatus! My father (born in 1903) had to quit school in the sixth grade to go to work full time. My mother (born in 1906) got to go to a couple of years of college and then taught in a one-room school. My father became a self-educated man, and was enormously proud of mother's college -- after their five girls were all of a certain age, he encouraged mom to go back, finish her degree, and also take graduate classes.

After she started back teaching school, Dad found out about a country sale going on that included some things from that old one room school house. You should have seen my mom's face light up when Dad carried in the bookcase/podium she'd taught from back when she was eighteen years old!

I have that in my living room, next to a quilt my daughter made me -- a geographic pattern reflecting "Kansas by air."

Patsi!

Aren't we lucky??

Flatus -- here's a pic of my dad working on his future father-in-law's farm in around 1925.

http://practicallyperfectpatsi.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/dadandtom1.jpg

Thanks, Patsi, thats a great picture. It's not hard to tell how he won your mom's hand.

Oh Flatus -- that love story is a funny one. The first time my mom saw him he was in the barbershop getting a haircut and she saw him sitting in the chair. She was home from college and he'd started working for my grandfather. Mom told her younger sister he was the most handsome man she'd ever seen.

Her sister said, "Well, we aren't allowed to talk to him. He's papa's best hired hand, but his daddy is Australia Bale (a Dodge City bad hat) and he runs around with women!"

My mom said, "Well, Papa better buck up because I'm going to marry him!"

Flatus,
When I read your 7:45 post, I enjoyed it so much that I read it to my hubby too. I told him that it is a perfect example of why I keep coming back here. You've been sharing a lot of nice stories and I, for one, appreciate it.

Of course, Patsi's humor is another reason I like it so much here too.
Patsi, I guess your sisters getting here this weekend, huh? Enjoy!

A Catharsis in Denver?

"For 40 years, conventions have just been big TV shows that coronate nominees, and this year's festivities aren't going to be any different. But the extraordinary closeness of the Democratic contest and recent comments by Hillary and Bill Clinton have the media in a tizzy. Could we see a donnybrook in Denver after all?

As for Hillary, she would have much more leverage over Obama if he wins and needs her help to get his agenda through the Senate. Should John McCain be vanquished, the Clinton-Obama dance will keep us riveted for years to come."
http://www.newsweek.com/id/151388

" The Democrats appear to be getting their Clintons in a row. "

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/08/bill_clintons_night_at_party_c.html

I've always been a bit puzzled when the obots refer to a candidate's supporters as "fans".

I guess it reveals a mindset in which policy is secondary to personality.

Hey, something occurred to me yesterday. I'm only 6 years older than BO. We fall into the same age demographic in some of the major polls. How come I'm an old dead-ender and he'a young and vibrant?

"The Times' Peter Nicholas reports this morning that a senior Democrat familiar with the convention scheduling said Clinton had agreed and been scheduled for Aug. 27."

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/08/bill-clinton.html

"DHL deal gone sour haunts McCain in Ohio"

"Wiping away her tears, she told the presumptive Republican presidential nominee how a controversial corporate deal he backed in 2003 as chairman of the Senate Commerce Committee -- the sale of Airborne Express cargo service to a German conglomerate that owns DHL and the subsequent expansion of the air freight hub here -- had gone horribly wrong."

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-na-campaign8-2008aug08,0,4031248.story

Chloe -- yes, my sister is starting the drive today and will spend the night somewhere in Missouri, then drive on in tomorrow. I'm really excited, haven't seen her for over a year even though we talk several times a week. She is one of my favorite people in this world.

Patsi, you and I are so fortunate.

On my grandfather's side of the family, my ggmother was a cockney immigrant, and my ggfather came from northern Ireland.

They had six sons, four of whom decided to go into business together. They figured out that they had to have one of the brothers who could be the face of their business in dealings with potential customers. The chosen one was my grandfather. He was sent to Adelbert College of Western Reserve graduating in 1901. My grandmother attended Mather College of the same university.

Grandpa decided he would learn the name of every student in his college, and he did. He was captain of the football team and played clarinet in the band. He stopped going back to homecoming celebrations after his 75th--he was the last of his class.

When I went through his papers I discovered that he was major contributor to the university. something that he never made a point of.

In any case, all the boys had sound classical educations despite only one of them going to college. Their business thrived and became a major manufacturer.

My grandmother came from an old American family with roots established around the time of the Pilgrims. She was one of several very attractive sisters. My grandfather's love for her was palpable, something obviously recognized by her family. They married in 1902, and my father, like yours, was born in 1903.

A tragic day for Detroit

"City becomes casualty in Kilpatrick's continued self-destruction
The Kilpatrick scandal has been a meat grinder, shredding the region's hopes and setting us back to our darker days of frustration, divisiveness and despair.

But what else can we expect? Kilpatrick's stubborn refusal to just leave and let us get about the business of healing is wearing us all out."
http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080808/OPINION03/808080377

Why Their Economic Plans Don't Add Up

"...And in part because of last spring's $168 billion stimulus, the federal deficit will rise to nearly $500 billion next year, almost three times fiscal 2007 levels..."

A rocky economy means the gap between campaign promises and governing realities may be larger than ever this year. Come January, the next President will have to take a much clearer stand as to where his priorities truly lie. The problem for voters is that it is impossible now to tell which of many competing goals Obama or McCain will back when the time comes to move from campaigning to governing. In either case, Americans will likely get much less than what's being offered in the heat of the campaign."
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_33/b4096050652985.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index_news+%2B+analysis

Have a good day all.

dog -- of course Gerson is a Republican commentator. I don't put him in Sullivan territory though.

"Last: please stick with the family stories! Am enjoying them! "

ROFL! I called an old political friend in Denver a few months back and said that one poster on this board said I should stick to talking about country music and recipes. The friend is still laughing. Now you come along and give me permission to tell family stories.

Oh the irony that someone who spent years publishing a political/feminist magazine is now told by O-bots she should stick to recipes.

Just more cosmic superiority I guess.

mornin' all.

Corey - Namath was certainly not the greatest QB to ever play the game or the most accurate passer, and as he got older and his mobility limited him more, he got much worse wrt his production and accuracy - after all a qbs legs are a big part of his throwing accuracy. Aside from his undisputed ablility early in his career to lead his team to a level their talent wouldn't suggest they were capable of, his greatness was in the intangibles - and he, as much as any player, transformed the position of QB in the NFL to one of team leader (and that is not to diminish the roles Starr and Unitas played in that transformation). At least that's my take on Namath.

The McCain campaign is mocking Obama because they have nothing else to run on. McCain's message so far is : I'm not Obama.

"Just more cosmic superiority I guess."

guess again

Oh, god, if you haven't read Krugman's column today , do not pass go, do not collect $200, go straight to the link and read.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/08/opinion/08krugman.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

The Politifact Flip-o-Meter

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/flip-o-meter/

Re: Gerson's piece - yes he's a repug, and yes, he's viewing the race from that perspective, but it seems to me to be a pretty accurate take on the two campaigns. There are throwaway sentences taking gratuitous shots at Obama that I take issue with, but on the whole, I think Gerson has hit on the major direction and theme of the two campaigns. When you throw the perspective of Krugman into the mix, there's a balance that seems to me to get a good handle on not only the campaigns, but on why Obama hasn't been able to break out yet.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/08/the-august-horror.html#comment-125654

PP:

Touring the Tower of London would be no fun if the Yeoman-guides couldn't scare the wits out of small children with the story of ...U-N-C-L-E-R-I-C-H-A-R-D!

If the media wanted to re-enforce the facts to the American public that off-shore-drilling won't produce a decrease in pricing for ten years, and at that time, it may only amount to 3 cents per gallon - then American most likely would not support it as a solution.

The media is equally at fault for all the vagueness. The various media outlets turn around -twist upside down the words and comments made by politicians and experts, and make news out of it....and then have the gall criticize the non-answer answer.

I like the family histories too...far more informative and even interesting than most bickering and back-biting that passes for discussion.

"The Guantanamo tribunal on Wednesday convicted Salim Hamdan of providing material support for terrorism by working as a driver and occasional armed bodyguard and weapons courier for bin Laden in Afghanistan from 1996 to November 2001."

The MSM would have you believe Salim Hamdan was nothing more than maybe a hanger-on, a gopher, a wannabe, a no-body, just a hapless fellow who got arrested because he was at the wrong place at the wrong time. But he was not only OBL's driver , he was also part of OBL's bodyguard team, and on the day of his arrest there were 2 surface to air missiles found in the trunk of his car. Mr Hamdan, also known as Saqr al-Jaddawi, joined the Yemeni branch of the Egyptian militant group Islamic Jihad before al-Qa'ida was formed. A faction of this group is allegedly led by bin Laden's chief aide, Ayman al-Zawahri, and merged with organizations led by bin Laden and others to form al-Qaida in 1998. He is said to have been bin Laden's driver between February 1996 and 24 November, 2001. But for being OBL's driver the rest of the information has not been reported since news that he was arrested. Why is the US spending some much time and money trying a sometimes driver?

There is a simple answer to this, because he is part of AQ, and AQ has only one goal, and that is to destroy the West. If you believe the MSM, AQ is gathering more and more true believers, and they have more members now then ever. If true, one has to ask themselves, what is AQ doing with all these new raw, eager to kill Western in the name of Allah, recruits? AQ has been very quiet for months, no sensational mass killings, nothing, just an occasional rambling statement from OBL, or AQ's 2nd in command, and hopefully the late, Ayman al-Zawahiri. This makes me wonder what AQ is planning, because if we remember nothing else about AQ, we know they plan, and they plan well. When they are the most quiet is when they are in their planning stages. They have been quiet way to long.

dog, you may be right, but until Obama moves from a reactive campaign mode to an assertive one, it will remain too early until it is too late. McCain is on the offensive, and it's paying off for him - he looks like, right or wrong on the issues, he's taking positions on them and wis willing to implement those positions. The voters are responding. Obama needs to adopt more of that approach IMO if he plans to win this election.

UB, true enough, but the media records and repeats - it's the campaign staff's role to project what it wants recorded and repeated. While I personally loved Obama's statement that McCain and the repugs seem to be proud of being ignorant (or something to that effect) - and I'd like to see more snarky stuff like that because I enjoy it and agree with it - I'm not the middle trying to make up my mind about which candidate I want in the WH, and I'm not the guy they need to sway. I dunno, maybe Axelrod & Co. has in mind a big push after the convention - but McCain is pushing now and there are people making their minds up now. The Olympics and the NFL preseason may distract many from politics until the conventions are over, but I don't see a winning strategy coming out of the Obama campaign at this point.

Fry, the military jury picked by the pentagon to listen to the government's case apparently didn't see in Hamdan the terrorist you see. Maybe you're right about Hamdan and maybe you're not, but in 5 months he will be free to go if he can find somewhere to go. As to AQ being too quiet for too long - I hope our intelligence agencies learned something from 9/11 and the wilfull ignorance we practiced that led to that attack and have a bit closer eye on AQ than we had up 'til then. ~~~ But then I'm told we're winning the war, so I guess things may not be so dire as you suggest. ~~~

Thought I would never be saying this, but Hilliary Clinton will be the Vice President selection for Barack Obama. Barack will need hilliary and bill to counter mccain and republican attacks which will allow obama to focus on positive and occassional attacks as he see fit. also imo Bill Clinton speech on wed before the vp speaks is a set up for Hilliary's speech as vice president. it will be an historic night, then obama speech on thursday will top everything off and he will get an huge bump in the polls. jmho

"The McCain campaign is mocking Obama because they have nothing else to run on. McCain's message so far is : I'm not Obama."

And the enlighten one's is "McCain is Bush." BHO is by far the most unqualified person to run for President. His resume` is nothing more than a water down version of Cliff Notes. There are recession and then there are depressions. This country has only undergone 1 depression, and should BHO get elected, we will be the recipients of another depression. BHO's idea of hope and change is not the kind Americans are seeking.

" that was not a swipe. I was genuinely enjoying the interchange between you and Flatus. "

That has long been a problem. I was raised to make sure if I was taking a swipe -- people knew it. As my grandmother said (quoting someone else) -- "A lady never insults anyone unintentionally."

pogo,

True, but then again murders, rapists, child pedophiles, are found not guilty in this country everyday, only to go on to murder, rape, and violate small children. Like I said yesterday, maybe should the enlighten one get elected, old Hamdan can get a job driving a cab in NYC.

"The McCain campaign is mocking Obama because they have nothing else to run on. McCain's message so far is : I'm not Obama."

I agree. Completely. Obama is VERY lucky McCain is such a poor candidate in 2008.

G'morning all!
"I would say it is the summer of "APPEASEMENT ONE" and 'WITHDRAWAL TWO", the official air force of Obama and the Democ"rat"ic Party."
- VJ Machiavelli @ 1:08 am

I guess vj macchiavelli apparently thinks that the only good appeasements are the republican ones directed toward north Korea and Sudan.

Hi everyone! I've gotten an unexpected, but blessed, lull in my summer schedule. How nice to come in here and read all this interesting stuff.

FWIW, there has been a measure of effort applied to keeping Hillary involved in the convention. There is a lot of continued grassroots effort associated with Hillary's candidacy and policies.

Right now people are working very hard to make sure certain policies make it into the DEM platform. The Equal Rights Amendment is one example. ERA was removed from the 2004 platform, now we are working to make sure it goes back in. So far, it is in the second draft. Interesting that the two "presumptive" nominees of both parties are from states (Arizona and Illinois) that still have not ratified ERA.

FryDaddy,

Ya then Hamdan can drive mark foley around trolling for boys.

Chloe
Thanks for all the kind words.Glad your here too!Its so nice waking up drinking my iced tea and reading you and all those great links.I can't Thankyou enough. Oh ya you referenced Nic earlier,miss him.

Tom
Thanks so much for the CNN Hillary link earlier,yes agreed she's the best! Hope your B-Day was a good one......

Patsi
Oh God your Priceless..You have me laughing so sometimes..Again my dogs think I'm crazy and I tell them no its just Patsi boys as I give them a treat to settle them.......Ha

pogo,

"but in 5 months he will be free to go if he can find somewhere to go."

I think you are wrong there. True his sentence will be up, but not sure that means he'll be free to leave. After all he is considered an enemy combatant, and we are still at war with that enemy. That would be like turning a Nazi back over to Germany during WWII.

dog, I am reluctant to speak for anyone but me, but my sense is that most people think "all of the above" is the right answer to the energy problem. I think that approach is too stupid by half because it ignores that priorities will be set and followed in the course of forming and implementing an energy policy, and both McCain and Obama seem to be taking opposite positions on those priorities - McCain tending toward drilling and Obama tending toward conservation and "other" (which btw I agree with). They probably both are closer to the middle than those positions suggest, but that's the impression I get from the MSM, which is where I believe most of the votes subject to swinging one way or another get their impressions.

"Our Growing Political Polarization, by Karolenna"

"Our Growing Racial Polarization," by David Duke.

I agree. Completely. Obama is VERY lucky McCain is such a poor candidate in 2008.

That was what the D's keep saying about Bush, but he sure did get his way, and is stilling getting his way.

Fry, I don't pretend to be an expert on that, but I do know what I read. According to the Pentagon spokesperson I linked to yesterday, when Hamdan was put on trial and convicted his status changed from enemy combatant . - It was from CNN.

""Hamdan is now considered a convicted war criminal and is no longer considered an enemy combatant and will be held separately from the other detainees at Guantanamo because of his new status.

"The decision by the jury will now go through a number of reviews as provided by the rules and regulations of the commission."

Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman"

The difference between heim and the Nazi war criminals was that they were not tried until the war was ove and Germany had surrendered. This is not the same kind of war - he is not an enemy combatant by virtue of his serving in the army of a coutry against whom we have declared war, and since the war is against a concept that could be in existence ad infinitum rather than an identified enemy who can actually be defeated, I doubt that even our court would agree that the member of a group we claim is part of the larger enemy can be held forever.

please excuse the numerous typos.

I don't think Hamdan will ever drive a cab in NYC - unless of course he comes illegally into the US across our porous borders and works in the underground economy. I do suspect he would remain on our terror watch list with Teddy and would have trouble getting past our crack customs and INS agents if he tried to come in legally - say as a tourist or a -gasp - student.

If the debate continues to be about Obama, we Democrats will lose.

Obama is the weakest part of our case to voters.

Oregon -- I agree and the Clinton factor can only strengthen the DEM ticket.

Pogo

I'm not going to do the searching for you because I'm not sure about the level of your interest or of your base of knowledge.

Here's my take on things. We (used to) follow the Law of Armed Conflict that is codified within the Geneva Conventions. My understanding of the intent of the Geneva Conventions is that this particular individual is an enemy combatant subject to indefinite detention. I personally don't believe he's a war criminal.

Because a war criminal is a dejure subset of enemy combatant, it seems logical that once his sentence is discharged, he should be returned to the larger group subject to indefinite detention.

The privations being experienced by the detainees, so far as I can tell, far exceed the simple detention envisioned in the Conventions.

I've had the privilege of being a jury member on a general courts martial retrial of an individual convicted of a capital offense. It was a fascinating experience. It was while I was at Leavenworth.

"Our Growing Political Polarization, by Karolenna"

"Our Growing Racial Polarization," by David Duke.

Posted by: Patsi Author Profile Page | August 8, 2008 10:59 AM

Karolenna writes an honest and innocuous essay about her experiences, and someone feels compelled to denigrate her because she represents a different political opinion. There's no way you can stretch what Karolenna wrote into any accurate comparison to any behavior David Duke has ever exhibited. This just makes me sad.

There are some who post here whose meanness truly takes my breath away. They come from both the Clinton and Obama camps. They seek to demean in the most hateful, inappropriate and immature ways possible. They don't think about their accuracy. They just write to disagree. This post by Patsi is an example, imo.

I feel certain that Dick III didnt whack the nephews. He also wasnt hunchbacked......

Posted by: a quiet observer | August 8, 2008 11:43 AM

quiet observer,
In my opinion, your post is an example of meanness that takes my breath away.

I can only guess you haven't been a quiet observer for long, or you would have a better view of what is happening here.

To those who come here only to attack, ask yourselves why you think that is necessary.

old shake just took the story like he found it.....

GLOUCESTER:
Now is the winter of our discontent
Made glorious summer by this sun of York;
And all the clouds that lour'd upon our house
In the deep bosom of the ocean buried.
Now are our brows bound with victorious wreaths;
Our bruised arms hung up for monuments;
Our stern alarums changed to merry meetings,
Our dreadful marches to delightful measures.
Grim-visaged war hath smooth'd his wrinkled front;
And now, instead of mounting barded steeds
To fright the souls of fearful adversaries,
He capers nimbly in a lady's chamber
To the lascivious pleasing of a lute.
But I, that am not shaped for sportive tricks,
Nor made to court an amorous looking-glass;
I, that am rudely stamp'd, and want love's majesty
To strut before a wanton ambling nymph;
I, that am curtail'd of this fair proportion,
Cheated of feature by dissembling nature,
Deformed, unfinish'd, sent before my time
Into this breathing world, scarce half made up,
And that so lamely and unfashionable
That dogs bark at me as I halt by them;
Why, I, in this weak piping time of peace,
Have no delight to pass away the time,
Unless to spy my shadow in the sun
And descant on mine own deformity:
And therefore, since I cannot prove a lover,
To entertain these fair well-spoken days,
I am determined to prove a villain
And hate the idle pleasures of these days.
Plots have I laid, inductions dangerous,
By drunken prophecies, libels and dreams,
To set my brother Clarence and the king
In deadly hate the one against the other:
And if King Edward be as true and just
As I am subtle, false and treacherous,
This day should Clarence closely be mew'd up,
About a prophecy, which says that 'G'
Of Edward's heirs the murderer shall be.
Dive, thoughts, down to my soul: here
Clarence comes.

flatus, I appreciate that - like I said, I don't pretend to be an expert. Your personal belief about his status as a war criminal trikes me as at odds with the public position of the pentagon and is at odds with the verdict handed down this week. It strikes me as inconsistent to take the public position expressed by Whitman, then return Hamdan to indefinite detention after he's served a sentence meted out by the military justice system to determine the guilt or innocence of the detainees and impose sentences on those found guilty of crimes against the US. If we are able to detain someone like Hamdan indefinitely, what is the point of trying him before the war is over? Under the system we devised I frankly don't understand any position other than one that represents freeing him after he serves the sentence we handed down. Are you aware of any case where an enemy combatant was tried under the Geneva Conventions before the conclusion of a conflict, was found guilty, served his sentence, then was returned to detention as an enemy combatant? I'd be interested in reading about it, but imagine it might be difficult to ferret out over the internets.

Good grief... there are some really fricken crazy people in the world:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/08/08/national/main4331869.shtml

White Supremacists See Hope In Obama Win
First Black President Would Trigger Backlash And Jar Whites Into Action, They Say

surprised GORDO didn't post THIS one!

but first, lunch with th' missus.

Does the Geneva Conventions protect saboteurs? I think not.

Sturge; 11:45 am.......Thank you, why would history make him such a villain?....... Being a Monfort man, you would know he was no where near as bad a guy as Roger Mortimer....................

Rita

chloe-
I attacked no one. I gave my opinion. I think that opinion is accurate.

all's I know about karolenna is she posted on this blog during the primaries some of the most vicious and vile vitriol against Ms Clinton, a competent and caring woman and sitting United States Senator, often in long strings of capital letters..........so as a result of that, I have no interest in whatever she has to say now, with all due respect for her right to say it.

Furthermore, chloe, if Patsi can say no wrong because you and she agree about politics, you've made my point. Thank you.

That also stands for those who support Obama and, consequently, believe his supporters can say no wrong.

2 campaigns seek 'truth' about Obama's birth
Eligibility for presidency hinges on American citizenship

"Israel Insider is reporting that analysts working separately have determined the birth certificate posted on the Daily Kos website and later on Sen. Barack Obama's "Fight the Smears" campaign website is fraudulent, and now two different actions have been launched to try and obtain the truth about the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee's birth.

The Israel Insider report said the two analysts it interviewed both have been "able to independently discern the name 'Maya Kassandra Soetoro' from artifacts left behind in the process of forging a new fake document for Barack from an image of Maya's original document." Maya is Obama's younger half-sister."

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=71763

sturgeone-
I agree with your position. I don't have to agree with a poster's opinions to respect their right to post it, and I don't have to denigrate their posts just because I know they have a different political opinion than I do.

I read some years ago that an old receipt was found in the British Chancery for payment of the costs to maintain Richard III's nephews. The receipt dated from the first or second year of Henry VI's reign.

Also, Richard III was not a hunchback.

However, don't assume that I am holding a torch for Dick3. In my book, the only good plantagenet is a dead one.

GORDO's incessant posts from the right wing World Net Daily makes me laugh. I just looked at the webpage and they are offering a t-shirt for sale...

"REAGAN '80" with the '80 crossed out and "08" written in.. So I guess supporters of World Net Daily are behind a movement to resurrect Reagan. Why not? After all, Reagan is as brain dead now as he was back in 1980. Couldn't hardly do any more harm...

"Patsi's ladylike behavior (see 10:51 am post) towards Karolenna, but it was not accurate or warranted."

BS. Karo showed up here during the primaries making statements so hate filled toward both Clintons that she sounded deranged. Then, after Obama muscled his way to the presumed nomination, like Bye Bye, she shrugged and said, "Okay, now you all get in line and it'll all be sweetness and light."

Just don't disagree with Karo II or Karo I comes shrieking back .

Sturg it is SKYLARK WHO WAS THE MOST IRRITATING OF THE GROUP... And now when I hear the song SKYLARK, I DON'T ENJOY IT AS MUCH! It's a terrible pity... AT LEAST SHE ISN'T POSTING AS MUCH AS BEFORE. Those damned capital letters WERE SURE FRICKEN IRRITATING!

Euro......switch to "Popsicle Toes" and let "skylark" sleep with the fishes......

pop toes...krall

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yNf2EmMewM

reagan '08. Hmm. There was a guy with no experience, and unqualified to be president. His opponents, Jimmy Carter and Walter Mondale, had tons of experience.

Their posts lead me to extrapolate that FryDaddy et al, were big supporters of Carter and Mondale.( : >D ]

" .......comes shrieking back........" lol

reagan actually had the greatest of qualifications to be a gop president........An empty headed Actor...with Alzheimer's to boot. Perfect......Only bush the second comes so close to being the perfect gop president dude.............

Skylark has always been one of my favorite songs as well and I'm not giving it up

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgbl_yHbKK0&feature=related

Hoagy Carmichael and Johnny Mercer can't be ruined by a screeching harriden assuming the name.

McCain.....the wrinkley old white-headed dude......is running a close third, being an out of touch wife dumping old and in the way ex-fly and party boy.

way to go, Gop...........

LOL .... thanks for the good laugh, Craig .. loved the vid with the horror theme .. so true

!:^}

a reporter on diane reims show this morning pointed out the irony of dnc scheduling a big to do celebrating the anniversary of women's right to vote at the same time taking away the right to vote for a woman at the convention.
interesting juxtaposition. sorta like the oxymoronic title "democratic" party.

Mark your calendars & get the popcorn ready.

"The planners of the Republican National Convention have bitten the bullet: They are putting two of the party's least-liked national political figures on the podium on the same night.

Vice President Dick Cheney, who in one recent poll was given a favorability rating barely half that of President Bush, will, after all, address the convention delegates along with the president on Monday, Sept. 1, the convention's opening day."

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/presidentbush/2008/08/cheney-conventi.html

No kidding, patd....good catch!

http://ssad.bowdoin.edu:8668/space/To+a+Skylark

Link above to complete poem......agree with jamie on this one.......even a screeching harranguist cannot lame the image of the Skylark

By Percy Bysshe Shelley, 1820

Hail to thee, blithe Spirit!
Bird thou never wert,
That from Heaven, or near it,
Pourest thy full heart
In profuse strains of unpremeditated art.

Higher still and higher
From the earth thou springest
Like a cloud of fire;
The blue deep thou wingest,
And singing still dost soar, and soaring ever singest.

In the golden lightning
Of the sunken sun,
O'er which clouds are bright'ning,
Thou dost float and run;
Like an unbodied joy whose race is just begun.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/08/the-august-horror.html#comment-125744

Observer,
I couldn't care less about the politics.

"I'm just asking one more time for civility"

That sure sounds like Sheila.

ACT NOW: Contact Hawaii Attorney General

(excerpts from sample letter)

"Attorney General Bennett,

This letter requests the attention of your office in the investigation of Barack Obama’s birth certificate.

... at least two forensics and documents experts have concluded that this image of a COLB, proffered by Sen. Obama as his true birth certificate, is a forgery (references below).

Researchers believe that Sen. Obama’s birth records in Hawaii may reveal a different legal name, perhaps as a result of an adoption and subsequent Indonesian citizenship, and that Sen. Obama may be intentionally concealing these facts from the electorate."

http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/08/08/act-now-contact-hawaii-attorney-general/

Alicia-
I read karolenna's back channel essay, too, but I sure didn't get from it what you did. For starters, she only mentioned one blind date, not continuous disastrous dates. And I don't think there are many who post here who would enjoy the company of the man she described. Also, who really knows when they move into a neighborhood what the political affiliations of their neighbors will be. It's not something I've ever thought of when looking for a home. But it sounded to me as though karolenna enjoys her neighbors, but recognizes their political differences.

OK, the voice of reason returns - did I miss anything while I was at lunch? Civility return tot he blog? The Law of gravity get suspended? Steven Hawking finally provide a unified theory? :-)

No one ever accused me of being a fan of Percy Shelley. However, Shelley's characterization of the saccharine John Keats as a bed wetter ("that piss-a-bed, Johnny Keats") left me with sore ribs after a serious ROFLMAO event.

Jamie,
I was bumping around on the Slate site from Dex's top of the thread post and came across this Utube; reminded me of your comments about your extended family and your gen. interest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYlJH81dSiw

No, voice of reason,

the angry voices of romantic intuition are still carping about Karolenna. God, it must be painful to bear such animosity for so long.

Anyway, glad you're back.

It doesn't matter what anyone says here.....there are those who never forget or forgive, who judge and pass judgment, and they are more than happy to throw nastiness in someone's face over and over and over again.

And then there are those, who can't seem to see their supporting role in the insanity......as if their hands are clean.

As long as there is denial....there will be not any resolution.

I don't know the story of the great divide, but I have witness the results, been attacked, and fought back at times. There is only one person here who I will not speak to, and it works out fine.

If you don't care for someone why converse with them or continuously call them names?

Carry on.

jmo.....

sturge, when you described one of the candidates as "an out of touch wife dumping old and in the way ex-fly and party boy" were you aware you were being quietly observed and judged on your postmanship vis-a-vis qo's "They seek to demean in the most hateful, inappropriate and immature ways possible"? ~~~to the corner with you and no tv tonight, you uncivilized cur!~~~

Well come Monday the Atlantic Journal or Magazine will start publishing over 100 in-house Clinton campaign memos dealing with the enlighten-one. I know enlighten should be capitalized, but we area dealing with a light weight.

Sturge;.......Shelley ???????

EuroTom; 12:12 pm........ Thanks for the kind words since I think we are at odds on the candidates. Karolenna, however, reminds me of Michelle Bernard (whom I posted about yesterday) only Bernard is politer, probably because she's on TV.

I agree wholeheartedly that critique is freedom of speech, but vitriol is taking advantage of a debatable situation and has no place.........

xrepublican; 12:27 pm.....Your just confusing the Plantaganets with King George, who I believe was a Hanover and German not Norman.......

QO -- Your comments prove that people can make very different conclusions after reading the same thing.

Karo's article does make a point about "The Great Sort" concerning people who want to live in places where people have similar political values, and she does conclude by saying that she's aware of neighborhoods near hers that are more left-leaning.

While she did only describe one disastrous blind date, the rest of what she wrote makes it seem like romantic/social life is lacking because of the dearth of available and amiable candidates in her geographic area.

Luckily for Karolenna, Maryland is a fairly small, and very blue, state and she could easily find happier hunting grounds only a short distance away. I would encourage her to look around in walkable towns such as Takoma Park, Greenbelt, Silver Spring, Columbia, Ellicott City for likely places for the like-minded. Even Rockville and Gaithersburg are very liberal these days. These are pretty towns where people keep their yards nice, which is what she likes.

Here is something we all need:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLxTpsIVzzo

patd-
In no way was I responding to sturgeon's post. Please don't put words in my mouth, so to speak. My comments are directed toward those of us who just cannot resist trying to hurt and demean other posters.

xr, damn. I've been waiting so long for that unified theory to emerge. Back in a past life, when I was an English major, I actually liked both Keats and Shelley (Byron and Coleridge, too) - they made me feel so ... what's the word I'm searching for... oh, yeah, romantic.

good to be back , although on the whole, lunch was better.

I just had a very funny image of Shelley and Keats, decked out in their finest, having a slap fest.

I know that I am a Hillary Clinton supporter and that many of you are also. However, trying to be objective, looking at the electoral map, and seeing the closeness of the polls, I am of the opinion that Sen. Obama can easily win with Clinton on the ticket and will maybe win with anyone other than Clinton on the ticket.

My reasoning is that she is the only candidate who starts with a huge support base located principally in the battle ground states. When you look at PA, MI, OH, NH,NV, IN, FL and NM she won those states in the primaries. That does not mean that Obama could not win them without her but with her they shore up that support. I do not believe that she hurts the ticket. That is borne out by recent polling. Anyone who would not vote for Hillary would not have voted for Obama. She brings some reassurance to the ticket that Obama frankly needs.

I have nothing against the other candidates being mentioned but honestly none of them is excitiing or brings with him any WOW factor. You know what I mean when they announce the vp candidate and you go WOW what a good choice. Now that is something special.

Since I know that I am biased toward a Obama/Clinton ticket, I would like to hear from you. If you have a favorite pick then please explain why that pick would be better for Obama to win in November.

Jo -- I am with you. The Obama-Clinton Combo would be unstoppable.

I would really like to see Clinton on the ticket with Obama. If not her, Biden.

politicallypissed,

I have no beef with Hanoverians other than George III, who couldn't help himself in the presence of Lord North, and was major loopy, to boot.

Nope, the only good Plantagenet is a dead one. They were grasping, mean-spirited, extremely violent, and murderous practioners of religious intolerance. I'm glad they are all dead. From Wikipedia:

"The surname Plantagenêt has been retroactively applied to Geoffrey of Anjou and his descendants, as they themselves used no surname until Richard Plantagenet, Duke of York, father of both Edward IV and Richard III, who apparently assumed it about 1448."

"The surname Plantagenêt has been retroactively applied to Geoffrey of Anjou and his descendants, as they themselves used no surname until Richard Plantagenet, Duke of York, father of both Edward IV and Richard III, who apparently assumed it about 1448."

jo, how about Kathleen Sebelius - she's kinda cute for a 60 year old, she has a funny name that's easy to misspell, and her maiden name is even funnier (Gilligan).

hey, xr - ditto.

In no way was I responding to sturgeon's post. Please don't put words in my mouth, so to speak. My comments are directed toward those of us who just cannot resist trying to hurt and demean other posters.
Posted by: a quiet observer
qo, thanx for the clarification.
sturge, you can come back to your seat and say whatever you like now without incrimination. sorry to have called you a cur. no offense intended.

Patsi-
My comments have nothing to do with the back channel thing, other than the peripheral event of karolenna's post there and the subsequent denigration of it and her.

I didn't interpret dog's post this morning as shaking his/her finger. I took it as an endorsement of conversation that was being enjoyed. And I really think you saw it otherwise because of your past arguments with dog. Just my observation, which certainly could be wrong.

I'm not asking that you turn the other cheek. I'm asking that we all think about what we're posting. We flare up at each other when no insult was given or intended far too often, imo.

Sorry about my mistake mistake. Klutz Attack. That 2d Wikipedia quote is suposed to be:

"The House of Anjou was a cadet branch of the original counts of Anjou, the dynasty established by Fulk I of Anjou at the beginning of the 10th century. The hereditary dynasty became extinct along the male line in 1060, with the death of Geoffrey Martel. The Anjou domains were inherited by his nephew Geoffrey, son of Ermenegarde of Anjou and Geoffrey, Count of Gâtinais. The House of Gâtinais, ruling over Anjou, thus became the House of Anjou, and by the early 12th century had also secured Maine."

patd - sturg is probably doing something musical and would rather do that than this (as if anyone could blame him). Your calling him a cur was likely taken as a compliment.

Rez

That's a funny song, but to my knowledge we are more likely to go for something completely new rather than a relative. If Martians ever visit, one of my descendants is likely to be first in line for some interplanetary relations. :-)

FEC Commission, Requesting Obama Birth Certificate Investigation

"The signers of this petition request the Federal Elections Commission and Mr. Donald McGahan, FEC chairman, to take responsibility to verify the eligibility of Mr. Barack H. Obama to be President of the United States. Mr. Obama has refused to produce a physical certified, stamped copy of his birth certificate. An electronically-displayed image displayed by his official campaign website has been alleged to be a forgery. We request that the FEC require Mr. Obama to authorize the FEC to obtain an official copy of his birth certificate and if he does not produce the authorization that the FEC reject his registration as a presidential candidate; that the FEC not monitor his campaign finances during the primary or election; that votes cast for Mr. Obama and reported by the states' boards of elections not be recorded and displayed by the FEC; and that Mr. Obama be considered in violation of 2 USC 437g for filing a false statement on FEC Form 2, as specified on that form."

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/08/obama-birth-cer.html

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/washington-whispers/2008/08/07/one-nation-under-a-new-obama-salute.html
wonder if this was drawn by the same guy that did the seal.

Jamie, It's the genealogy thing that struck the chord not really family connections, so no insinuations were intended :-).

"The Obama-Clinton Combo would be unstoppable."

Maybe in Never-Never Land. After Monday's release of the Clinton's in-house memos, you would have a better shot of becoming his VP.

According top Axelrod everything is fine, they just need to do some more negotiations. Well if everything is so fine, why the need to negotiate anything?

Pat that logo and the goal to have people greet Obama with that salute are downright scary.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/08/the-august-horror.html#comment-125797

Making that sign in high school used to get you sent to the principal's office. Just how old are these Obama supporters anyway?

In hindsight, I estimate that the British George III was less villainous and looney than America's george III.

GORDO,

Wouldn't it be a lot easier to go to the Oahu County center and ask to see the original birth certificate?

I don't know if anyone has seen "Swing Vote" as yet, but there is a suit now about the script

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hI4bsXabfbVvhRQm3SGhRhA0-J-QD92E1S380

GORDO,

In the event that you can't personally go to the Oahu County Courthouse, isn't there someone you know and trust to do it for you?

xr, ~~~...~~~

keeps things clear.

IMHO, this is the biggest problem Obama has to deal with in this election.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/washington/AP-McCain.html

Edwards admits affair. Pac has paid her over $100,000

well, at least now we know what BHO had on john edwards to get his endorsement

Xrepublican; 2:03 pm....... I respect your opinion, I just prefer the White Roses of York to the Red Roses of Lancaster......
2:32 pm....... Very humourous analogy, kudos.

Pogo; 2:12 pm..... It wasn't that Patd called Sturge a cur, I'm sure she meant "churl", as in Monfort's man. Sturge can correct me, but I think this was over Monfort marrying, the King's sister (Margaret?) without the King's permission. Longshanks was a stern, cold man, who saw himself as a lawgiver, and who was bitterly disappointed in his son.

Rita

Pogo

Just woke up.

Detention as a POW is not intended as a punishment--it simply confers non-combatant status on the captured individual and bestows upon them the obligation of obeying the capturing power's civil and military law. There are many instances where people, usually while during escape, have committed crimes and are harshly punished and then returned to POW status.

The most severe punishment would be summary execution. Hardly possible returning the individual to the POW barracks after that.

Many of us have retained the image of the Vietnamese official blowing the brains out of captured VC's head. Probably considered the VC a war criminal.

In the military I was in, we worked very hard to keep our people from becoming war criminals. Didn't always work like with Lt Calley. But, in the current war, you've probably read reports where perishable targets, in the cross hairs, were not attacked because rapid JAG consent wasn't forthcoming.

I'll give a realistic example of a targeting decision. Through electronic means, we discover that a command and control facility's radio antenna has been erected atop the tallest building in an enemy installation. That building happens to be a hospital.

Is the antenna a legitimate target? What if the hospital would surely be destroyed in the process? What if it is the key antenna in a relay network? What if the antenna is only occasionally used? What if the control center served by the antenna has been identified and is in an open area? But, it is heavily fortified and many friendly casualties will be incurred if we attack it? What if etc., etc.. You get the point.

Let's say JAG makes the case that the hospital's use as a supporting structure for the antenna invalidates its Geneva Convention protected status. Four aircraft strike the target successfully destroying the hospital in the process. There are patient casualties.

Also, one of our planes was shot down and the crew captured. The enemy tries them as war criminals, convicts them of murder, and executes them. Were the executions allowed under international law?

What should the fate of the pilot be if the hospital received only minor damage? How about two years confinement then return to POW status?

Reverse the scenario and make the hospital one of ours and the attackers our adversary. Would your conclusions be the same?

Too much information?

John Edwards now admits he had an affair with Rielle Hunter, but says he's not the father of Hunter's child.

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5441195&page=1

Sad. Poor Elizabeth.

Edwards admits affair. Pac has paid her over $100,000.

Wonder if the MSM will now go to comfort Elizabeth Edwards. They should, they used the hell out of her to prop-up her husband during the primary. They, MSM, are just evil bastards.

Jamie -- The Edwards PAc gave her $100,000 since the campaign -- or was this for her video work during the campaign?

Is Barack Obama's posted birth certificate a forgery?

"The results of their analyses is interesting, and potentially devastating to Obama's presidential bid.

Imagine if charges of birth ceritificate forgery were leveled at John McCain -- the Non-Mainstream Media (NMSM) would be all over them. You can bet that such a story would be front and center in the New York Times and the major networks would be running wall-to-wall "special reports" on their investigations of the matter. Nevertheless, it appears that Techdude's credentials are solid, and his forensic analysis of the Obama birth certificates so damning, that the NMSM will eventually be forced to cover this developing bombshell of a story.

Perhaps it's coincidence, but a few days ago Bill Clinton said to ABC News, "I think everybody’s got a right to run for president who qualifies under the Constitution."

http://antiprotester.blogspot.com/2008/08/is-barack-obamas-posted-birth.html

Those Rielle Hunter videos of John Edwards are available on YouTube -- very uncomfortable to watch -- the eeew factor is palpable -- like watching two office mates shamelessly flirting with one another.

Speaking of Johnny Mercer...

Two of a Kind...

with Bobby Darrin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaCBeO6_rQM

LOL@Bear
"I the only one relieved that it was at least a heterosexual affair".

Rita

I have _the_ book. The slips of paper have become separated from it. :((

There's a small note on the dust cover, "Edward V brother-Duke of York," and then a couple of more that I can't read. It must have become apparent to grandma that she needed a larger writing surface.

I _will_ read it, I keep telling myself.

LOL@Bear
"I the only one relieved that it was at least a heterosexual affair".

Posted by: FryDaddy | August 8, 2008 3:22 PM

It would have been a lot more HOT if it was a gay affair

Here are 3 questions I posed to Gallup.com regarding interpretation of their Daily Tracking Poll results:

Question 1: Do I read today's results correctly as having 11% Undecideds? If incorrect, what is correct figure?

Question 2: What if any inferences can be made from your daily tracking poll as to electoral projections?

Question 3: What impact on your daily tracking poll does Obama's large leads in California and New York have? Is it possible or probable that the percentage difference is more than explained by that weighting?

It's unclear to me at this point the value of national polls of registered voters as indicators of the General Election outcome (except of course to help the Media fill air-time and paper space). It's like the pollsters are caught in a Primary time-warp when the GE is based on Electoral voting.

Edwards seem mighty sure the child isn't is. Wonder if he had a vasectomy? If not he better hope the National Enquirer hasn't already collected a sample of his DNA and that of the baby's, and had it tested.

The National Enquirer was right.

Yeah they were right. Like they would subject themselves to a another massive lawsuit again? they have gone down that path once or twice before and it has cost them big money. Just don't think they saw any benefits in writing libelous story about a famous D party leader who just so happens his a practicing trial attorney.

flatus - hope you had a good nap. Interesting hypotheticals. Of course the execution angle obviates any consideration of returning a convicted POW, detainee, whatever, to enemy combatant status and continued detention. I just wanted to know if you were aware of any situation that parallels Hamdan's so we could see what precedent exists for treatment of a prisoner captured, tried and punished before the conclusion of a war.

I have asserted from about day 1 of the invasion of Iraq that the war on terror is a marketing gimmick of the Bush WH to justify a never ending authority to keep us in combat status in the middle east to let the countries of that region know we won't let them screw with their contribution to our oil supply. As long as there is no identified enemy to surrender to us (a country would be a nice plus) or over which to dec lare victory, I believe that we have set up a system that allows us to under color of law detain those we call enemy combatants indefinitely, and if that is the case, conducting trials, the outcome of which (as in Hamdan's case) is potentially life imprisonment or less, those trials are farces since a lesser sentence does nothing other than change what we call the status of the convicted prisoner for that period of time, after which he is returned to his original status,but aside from the trial itself, he has been nothing other than our prisoner for the entire period until he is released after the conclusion of the conflict - if he is then acquitted of any war crime. I know I'm rambling a bit, but I'm trying to make sense of a system that doesn't make sense to me.

Alicia

It was labeled as video work even though conceded she is a beginning film maker with few skills. One of those "honest" ways to pass money to a mistress. The scandal mongers are digging for other amounts. Apparently Edwards says that he never "paid her" but some of his "supporters" may have without his knowledge. The usual tap dance.

And then there was Candidate Carter lusting in heart:
http://www.arts.mcgill.ca/history/faculty/TROYWEB/Courseweb/JimmyCarterThePlayboyInterview.htm

I'm sad for all of them. Edwards remains, because of his policies and intentions regarding big business, my candidate of choice. But this is just sad. Poor Elizabeth...without trust, what do you have in a marriage? Poor John...humiliated over moments of weakness. Poor dumb, stupid woman who indulged herself at the expense of a married man, his wife, his candidacy, etc...not to mention the other man (someone on the campaign?) who apparently claims to be the child's father. And the poor child. This is just sad.

"BTW, am I the only one relieved that it was at least a heterosexual affair that didn't involve prostitutes or minors?"

ROFL!

What the heck was Edwards thinking....that it would stay a secret????
~~~hello?~~~

Right, Dem politicians conform to traditional values in their affairs. I've always said the Repugs aren't the party of traditional values, the dems are.

This really sucks for Elizabeth Edwards. She is such a class act.

And this comment from JE is suspect:

"Edwards denied paying any money to Hunter to keep her from going public but said it was possible some of his friends or supporters may have made payments without telling him. "

"BTW, am I the only one relieved that it was at least a heterosexual affair that didn't involve prostitutes or minors?"

Wouldn't matter if it were a homosexual afair, but very glad there were no prostitutes or minors! And it does set the Dems apart from the Republicans, doesn't it? Viva la difference!

What a rat. So now we know for sure that he was a smooth talking liar. So glad he got nowhere in the primary. Just think if he had won and this had come out. A Republican field day. As it is this is very bad news for democrats. Maybe not Obama but surly bad for the party.

Any bets on how much air time he gets in Denver. Plenty as a side story.

I also read that there was found in the Chancery a written communication to Edward III's chancellor from the prior of an Italian monastery (Benedictine, I believe) indicating that Edward II was residing at the monastery. The date of this message places the event several years after Edward II is supposed to have been murdered. So, perhaps the wild Dunheved brothers' attempt to rescue Edward from Berkeley Castle was actually successful.

Btw, the massacre at Tewkesbury was horriffic. Yorkists stormed the abbey where the defeated enemy fled for refuge. According to one story, they broke into the church and tore the Prince of Wales from the mercy seat. The Yorkists then chopped up the Hope of Lancaster, and tossed His Bits into the mass grave of Henry's base swineherds and ditchdigger's - COMMON PEOPLE ! Oh, the infamy !

Eadweard, Grete Kynge, the Sunne of Yorke, was one prolific slayer of Plantagenets. I kinda like that about him.

Pogo

I know it doesn't make sense. The system is all built on a foundation of identifiable belligerent nations with rational hierarchies.

Are there any former JAGs in your office? Certainly worth the cost of a lunch to get more satisfying answers than I've provided.

You used the phrase. "...enemy combatant status and continued detention." Once an individual becomes a POW, he's no longer a combatant. It's something like being in 'time out'.

In our military, if I was to be captured, I would have an obligation to escape and regain combatant status. I would be legally answerable to the detaining power for whatever crimes I committed while escaping.

It would be impermissible for me to accept parole in exchange for freedom. Therefore, if it was a hundred years war, I should expect to be detained for the rest of my life.

"What the heck was Edwards thinking...."

ub, we guys have this terrible habit of thinking with the little head at times. Trying to ascribe rational thought to that is something like trying to teach a pig to talk - can't be done.

Elizabeth Edwards next call ? - Lorena Bobbitt

oy vey Pogo....lol

He wasn't in the big- picture frame of mind shall we say?

Patsy and Flatus
Enjoyed reading your earlier posts on the one room school.I went to one in the 40's and now live a mile down the road from where it once stood.What memories it brings back.There were only about a dozen students and the teacher had to be able to teach all 8 grades.My brother was only one in his grade,which made it difficult because he had to know all the answers.we had two in mine and some had none.I remember in 1st grade having to walk with my classmate to nearby farm about 1/2 mile to get water to carry back to the school and the older boys had to carry in coal for the stove.

My parents only went to the 4th grade and still were able to start their own business.I was the 4th child and the first to graduate high school.The first 3 all joined the military when they were old enough.And the younger 2 also went into the service after they graduated HS.All 5 were male.

And now back to Hillary.i have not given up on her.If the SD's have any brains they will see that Obama is not going to win and will change their vote to a sure winner.

Craig..I wish I could see your video.

Actually, flatus, we do have a couple of ex-jag guys here. I'll see if I can get salt on one of their tails.

Back to Edwards - wonder when that affair ended - Elizabeth was first diagnosed with breast cancer in 11/06. Please spare us the joint contrite cad/forgiving wronged wife appearance on Larry King.

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Story?id=5441195&page=1

this article says it ended to early for the baby to be his, that he had told Elizabeth about the affair, but she didn't know about the recent meeting

"I went to one in the 40's"

Golly, what wonderful memories we shared today! And I share your desire to see Hillary step forward. Forget the video; the images we conjured are much better. ;)

well, all, fun as this is, time to go follow LP around the course as he competes for the country club's kids' championship. (And he's a REAL LONG SHOT to win, place or show in this competition) Have a good weekend.

I called this pompous, self-centered, arrogant, pond scum back in November. I said he should be selling snake oil, or wearing white patten leather shoes with belt to match and a yellow plaid sports coat and selling used cars. But I never thought he would sink to such a low level as he has. This is really mind boggling.

But what I find particularly troubling about this is when Elizabeth was diagnosed with cancer, and there was talk about maybe Edwards should stay home with his sick wife. Not only does he continue to run during the primary, but here you have poor sickly Elizabeth being treated for her cancer and still willing to go out on the campaign trail to stump for his sorry ass. I just don't know how he could betray and show such total disrespect to his wife in such irresponsible, don't give a shit way.

Thanks, Fry, He deserves all the righteous scorn we can muster.

The media will simply use John Edwards' affair to dredge up all the old stuff on Bill Clinton & bash Hillary with it, don'tcha know.

Ps, these freakin' letters are totally unreadable!

pogo,

You are a genius, you know.

I have always thought that the Iraq fiasco began as a ploy to get re-elected in '04. Iraq and the 'threat' of gay marriage worked well for them.

I assume the real work of the bushcheneymccain Administration to be:

1. The quintupling of the price of oil,
2. the establishment of a totalitarian theocracy,
3. the reorganization of American society into 3 castes through repeal of the estate tax : The CEO/Theocrats, the managers of the CEO/Theocrats' wealth, and the paraiahs who slave and live in fear.

These are major projects that could not be accomplished 4 short years.

FryDaddy,
I think there are a lot of people out there that think because they have money and or power they can get away with anything.Even tho I like Bill Clinton,he had that same attitude as so many before him..So many presidents and congressmen think they can get away with anything and they usually did because the press always looked the other way.

where are the roll models for our youth,when many of our teachers,police ,priests and parents have morals of alley cats.

Ruth

Well whatever happened, it's not going to make it any easier to have the whole world peering in on them.

National Enquirer scooped the rest.

FryDaddy,

The lad kinda reminds ya of newt gingrich, doesn't he?

Maybe, it some kind of redneck, trailer trash, sort of thing that they never outgrew.

I am deeply disappointed, and sorry that I wasted my support on him. His mind was on something else; obviously it wasn't on winning this case.

? ? ? ? ? OBAMA ? ? ? ? ?

National Enquirer Sinclair Coverage

http://rense.com/general81/enq.htm

====================

Globe Sinclair Coverage

http://rense.com/general81/globe.htm

? ? ? ? ? OBAMA ? ? ? ? ?

Flatus; 3:22 pm....... If you are of a historical bent, you will enjoy the book. Thomas Costain wrote several historical novels, one of the more obscure and harder to find is called "The Darkness and The Dawn", it's a story about Attilla the Hun and a very interesting story about the Russian Steppes. Taras Bulba is a movie that comes close but in a later vein.

Anyone:......I don't think it's right to be saying "poor Elizabeth", empathy or sympathy is a good thing, but she is a strong and proud woman and the last thing she needs is pity...........

Rita

The wallstreeturinal got scooped by the National Inquirer yet again.

The National Enquirer, Matt Drudge, The Star, all these, privacy invading scum should die screaming. It's not John Edwards who will pay, it's his family. Damn all the perversions that keep creeps like this in business..........

FryDaddy,

Were you this indignant when Newt Gingrich was banging his aide while his then wife lay in a hospital bedding, nearly dying from cancer?

Edwards obviously isn't the first Democrat to do this but it's funny that it takes criminal sex acts for you to decry Republican activities...and even then I think you have your hot jailbait proviso...

Altho women are not exempt from infidelity,it seems to me that it has been mostly men who have been involved in these scandals involving our politicians,so as i have said many times before,we need a woman in the white house.At least she won't be able to govern with a penis.

Ruth

Democrats are sexy: no one ever says,

"That's a nice piece of elephant"

Saddle Up Obama & McCain! While the Edwards revelation is actually passé, it has moved the issue into the campaign as a Question the Media will be emboldened to ask.

If there is something there, it will be discovered, uncovered, implied, justified, rationalized, etc. While the question is tawdry, the circumstances could raise issues of judgement and character.

Saddle up, Obama & McCain! The question(s) are coming!

While actually passé, the Edwards revelation will embolden the Media to ask. If there is anything there, it will be uncovered, discovered and then exploited based on issues of judgement and character.

PP

Have you read Michener's "Poland". If you liked the Costain book, Michener's is even more fascinating since it covers the whole spectrum from the formation of the land to modern day.

If the Edwards' affair was over, why did he hide in a public bathroom, just two
weeks ago, when he "accidently" met his other woman in Bev Hills hotel?

Maybe this sex scandal wouldn't be so sad/bad, if the public didn't know and
respect Elizabeth so much and if she didn't have terminal cancer.

I feel badly for Elizabeth Edwards. Otherwise, it is none of my business. It is not the business of all the pontificators on this blog either!

Hey Marcia -- It's almost happy hour!

He hid in the potty because the affair wasn't over.

John Edwards = Future Fox TV pundit.

Jamie; 5:05 pm.... No, Jamie, I haven't but I will look for it.

I'm a little amazed at all the "righteous indignation" especially in the media, who helped, with all their considerable weight to push John Edwards forwards as far as possible, even to suggesting him for VP, because it coincided with their agenda for Obama.....Fie on them all..........

Rita

"Elizabeth Edwards next call ? - Lorena Bobbitt"

Sick.

"My parents only went to the 4th grade and still were able to start their own business."

Ruth -- that was so common in rural America, and other areas of course. It's amazing how people rose above that fact, becoming self-educated and successful in spite of it.

My dad worked his butt off on his father's little dirt patch of a farm. And when he got to be a teen, he had to threaten to fight his father when the old man said he wouldn't allow one of the girls to attend high school. That aunt of mine was a particularly good student who LOVED books. And Dad always said he would put up with a lot from his father, but not with his denying Faye her books.

Hi Oregon Democratic,

One reason the Edwards' affair is big news is because John Edwards so adamantly denied the affair for so long. We all watched all those clips of
him insisting the National Enquirer stories were "all lies."

Another reason we're interested in the story is because I think we all wanted to believe that John Edwards was the dutiful husband he presented to the public. I, for one, liked the romantic belief that the Edwards had one of the few truly good marriages in Washington. Even though it's none of our business, what politicians do in their personal lives interests most of us political junkies.

Preface this by saying I originally was a John Edwards supporter.

As to John Edwards being forced to admit his affair---while there is no real surprise in the fact that he was involved in the affair--I marvel at the arrogance that convinces these guys that somehow it will not become public.

I would make no judgment on the ramifications for his family as to often people criticize women for staying with a husband who has so dishonored them--that is something that no one should judge--whatever Elizabeth decides to do.

Here is John Edwards statement--I must say that I find it quite disengenuious.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/08/08/1256915.aspx

"I was and am ashamed of my conduct and choices and I had hoped that it would never become public."

In this time of instant access to any and all information, this is simply not believable.

Hi Alicia,

You're right. Happy Hour is here! What are you having? This round is on me.

"Democrats are sexy: no one ever says,

"That's a nice piece of elephant"

STOP IT BEAR! I seriously had to hold a mouthful of ice tea in my mouth for a couple of minutes to keep from spitting it on the keyboard.

"Very sad about this all, and would have liked to see him as Atty General or in some other capacity."

Yes -- and I think he would have been a great attoney general.

Dog,

I too would have thought John Edwards would be a fine attorney general, and I do believe or hope ultimately he will be able to redeem himself in the eyes of many of us--I try not to personalize about politicians though--since my cynical nature always whispers they will disappoint you. More often then not most of them do.

Over at Talk Left there's some Katy Couric interviews with the candidates about infidelity---only reinforces my cynical distrust of all of them.

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/8/8/162321/7729

Marcia -- Apropos of this afternoon's news -- I'm mixing dirty martinis.

Coreen

I really like Obama's answer on that one. The media parade today is a classic example of the wallowing in puritanism. For as long as there have been public figures, there have been public figures having affairs.

In fact, there is infidelity in more than half of all marriages. It is private. As long as the indescretion is a matter of privacy between a man and wife and not a matter of public funds or trust, it is simply none of our business.

The problem for Edwards, is not th affair so to speak, but the numerous clips over time of him lying about it. That is his burden to bear in the public eye.

How this effects his personal life and his family is none of our beeswax. imo

Well about an elephant's ... oh never mind.

About men, we're fighting a hormonal poison known as testosterone. On the one hand we love it, on the other, it's a curse. Testosterone contributes to the "hunter" tendencies of the male.

"Testosterone is a steroid hormone from the androgen group. In mammals, testosterone is primarily secreted in the testes of males and the ovaries of females, although small amounts are also secreted by the adrenal glands. It is the principal male sex hormone and an anabolic steroid.
In both men and women, testosterone plays a key role in health and well-being as well as in sexual functioning. Examples include enhanced libido, increased energy, increased production of red blood cells and protection against osteoporosis. On average, an adult human male body produces about forty to sixty times more testosterone than an adult female body, but females are more sensitive to the hormone.[1] However the overall ranges for male and female are very wide, such that the ranges actually overlap at the low end and high end respectively."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone

Some good men cheat. For many great men, it's a weakness. What separates the bastards from the good-but-flawed is how they treat their wives once the affair is revealed.

Gingrich -- Bastard
McCain -- Bastard
Clinton -- GBF
Daddy -- GBF

Edwards has done nothing that should disqualify him from becoming attorney general. What a shame people cannot separate his skills from his poor decision about having sex with an attractive, available young woman. I wonder how many of those who are so self-righteously decrying his affair (and I'm talking about the TV pundits, not any of you fine people, though if the shoe fits...) are guilty of similar...or other...indiscretions.

Newt Gingrich wasn't running for POTUS, Edwards was.

Poor Edwards, just read some more of his confession. He states he never loved the Hunter woman, just had her paid $114k so she could be close by. Did Edwards say he was even sorry? That would be sorry for doing it, not sorry for getting caught. Wonder who's door Ms Hunter will be knowing at for child support? Now I can understand what Edwards meant when he was talking about the 2 America's.The one he lives in and the one he doesn't want you to know about. Snake oil to the very last drop.

Affairs are messy in public or in private. A serious problem with a public figure having a secret affair, or criminal activity is that they can be subject to blackmail by those that know of it.

If I remember correctly J. Edger Hoover (who had his own secret life) collected information on all kinds of people so he could influence their actions.

I think that many very talented people self-select out of politics for this very reason. They may have the intellect, acumen, experience...but because of some thing that they do or have done, will not enter the public arena.

Now the ones that have those skeletons in the closet and choose to run for office, are taking a chance that this information could become public. Some don't care, others believe that they will never be caught or will be able to talk their way out of it. Personally, I would prefer the ones that don't care if it becomes public over those that think that they will never be caught.

Alicia,

You've nailed it. While Love and Lust can be found in the same relationship they can also exist in different relationships. Loyalty, companionship, and respect can exist while at the same time someone is following their libido across the countryside. It is up to the partner to decide what they value, are willing to defend, and whether or not it is necessary to leave.

I've never met a perfect human being. You can only hope there are more pluses than minuses.

"Edwards' political action committee later paid her $114,000 to produce campaign website documentaries despite her lack of experience."

Is there a legal problem here?

Jamie,

I am surprised you say you have never met a perfect human being. He posts here all the time.

Bowman

About that remedial comprehension course you need to take. ~~~

Well it's Friday and even if it's a bit early on West Coast I'll take one of those dirty martinis

Yuck to John Edwards and to the media who are waiting like vultures for Eliz to make a statement. There was real anger in David Boniors statement ...talk about August horrors this is a biggy

"Edwards made a point of telling Woodruff that his wife's cancer was in remission when he began the affair with Hunter."

Oh well that makes it OK then.

"Elizabeth Edwards has since been diagnosed with an incurable form of the disease."

Then this should make not OK.

KGC! I was just thinking about you! Care for a dirty martini?

KGC,

I keep thinking from what I am reading that Elizabeth's statement was made by being as involved with his 2007-8 campaign as he was.

Alicia
Yes please make mine a double.
In a way it could be very liberating for Edwards - Gary Hart has gone on to write a number of wonderful books and to speak forthrightly on American foreign policy.

Since we are drinking, and my Pandora Radio "Piano Bar" is playing, (at the moment Nat King Cole singing "For All We know")

how about having some fun.

Invent something wild you would like to see happen at the Democratic convention. Be as insane or silly as you like. I have a video playing in my head, let's see if it occurs to anyone else.

Could this have been a big reason why John Kerry endorsed Obama early and not his former VP partner? What did Kerry know and when did he know it?

KGC -- Gary Hart will still be remembered for Monkey Business. At least there is no such picture (yet) for Edwards.

Cheers!

"Edwards today admitted the National Enquirer was correcT"

Isn't this the same publication that he called a trash tabloid?
Seems like this so-called trash tabloid knew what they were talking about, and the $400 hair cut attorney just couldn't bring himself to tell the truth.

But this dog and pony show isn't over just yet. There is that small matter of a criminal complaint filed with the Beverly Hills Police Department by the National Enquirer. Since Edwards, a non paying guest, summon the hotel security, Edwards will become a witness.

9/11
Good point. And really what business is it of anyone else's what other people do in the private lives...although people running for office are held to a separate standard. But look how many "violate " it and remain successful.
Speaking just for me. I think Eliz is a wonderful person and I know if it were me my feelings would be hurt so I guess it makes me say something like..."Men oy vey."

I'd like to see people smoking pot on the floor of the convention to bring attention to the fact that the US govt wastes money enforcing pot laws and law enforcement uses pot laws to harass people.

The work of Rielle Hunter -- the missing webisode:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDjxDL00mvg&feature=related

The woman's voice behind the camera is hers.

Bowman

About that remedial comprehension course you need to take. ~~~
What about it? What did I mis-comprehend? Perhaps the message was unclear. Please express it in terms that someone in need of remedial comprehension education can understand.

Can we start a blog Trail MIx for Dummies?

KGC,

Fun one except I couldn't attend ... can't handle the smell.. I'll watch and cheer on closed circuit.

Bowman

You identified a someone posting here as perfect. Please not the flaming tildes ~~~~~

note not not

Alicia
So true for Mr Hart --he tried to revive his electoral career in 2004 and in fact was the first presidential candidate to blog
but every single story contained at least one mention of Donna Rice and monkey business. The media can be very unforgiving.

Jamie
well that wouldn't be very considerate now that you mention it..maybe they could just eat cookies.

Well, ladies...I decided to have a margarita...so I'll just have to sip along on this, and in honor of younger days, listen to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySdRUWYJhsk

Excuse me, I did not identify anyone here as perfect.

I did write that there is a perfect person that posts here all the time. Big difference, reading comprehension 101.

Okay Bowman

I was teasing with you. You don't seem to be in a mood for it.

Jamie

A parade of Shrub failures--- failing infrastructure, the destruction of housing market, the failure to address energy issues, the failed foreign policy, the ruin of the American military although it might be too long

Katherine,

Glad to see you here.

To your point about the media being unforgiving---maybe the ego of these politicians, by allowing themselves to believe that they are different, special &
the media will not turn on them, that they are all friends---may indeed be the common but fatal flaw that runs through the belief that they will not be caught- what I consider arrogance.

Okay Pasti -- Margy it is -- on the rocks or frozen?

Bowman ---You need a cocktail too, what's your pleasure?

Patsi -- not Pasti -- OMG. The gin is working on me fingers!

Coreen
Definely that. But shouldn't there be an expiration date on these stories. Hart paid for his arrogance but should he pay forever. Hart has written several thoughtful and interesting books and his views on foreign policy should have been influential in Democratic politics but as has been pointed out his lasting legacy is Monkey Business. He and his wife worked it out and I'm just guessing but I doubt he did it again.
Although from the occasional posts here it sounds like sleeping around is fairly common in congress. I guess we are public Puritans and private sinners...America the land of the hypocrites.

If she and jose get together often enough we might see Patsi in pasties

KGC

The Bush failures could be done as one of those 200 years of history in two minutes movies with flashing images on a screen.

It's obvious I need to give some hints for all out insanity.

By tradition, the nominee never appears until the last night of the convention. The speeches get made, the platform is approved, the balloting is done, All of this builds to the acceptance speech

What could Obama do that was a total break with tradition that would make the whole place go crazy.

Jamie

Ending with the burning Shrub...instead of burning man
and live fire dancers

It's OK Jamie,

Just exercising my snarky side. You how it is Use it or Lose it.

But I am willing to name names. But at the risk of embarrassing contributors to this blog I will refrain from naming those whom I think are darn close to perfect. And I will never divulge my scoring system.

Lousy fingers, how should be know. Where did that k go?

What can I say Bowman. I watched too many Ivory Soap commercials

99 and 44/100% pure

The interesting bit is the .56%

There could be a night of the "Others" the candidates who started out running for president and each one could lead a conga line through the convention floors.

"Since becoming pregnant, Hunter has lived under assumed names in a series of expensive homes in North Carolina and, more recently, in Santa Barbara, Calif. Edwards denied paying any money to Hunter to keep her from going public but said it was possible some of his friends or supporters may have made payments without telling him."

Is Edwards saying someone may have paid her not to talk, but it just wasn't him who didn't pay her? I don't recall reading Ms Hunter was asking for any money not to talk. Where did that come from? . How many homes are we talking about, and how often did this pregnant woman move around? North Carolina? What a coincidence, that is the same state Edwards is from. just where did all this money come from, hope that money didn't come out of his campaign funds.

"I wanted to keep this mistake I had made two years previously private," Edwards said.
Edwards claims Elizabeth knew about the affair, but not about the 2:30 AM hotel meeting."

2:30 AM meeting in a hotel where you are not registered as a guest, with the woman you had an affair with, who just so happened to bring along the baby for you to see, who's father name is not on the baby's birth certificate. And you did all this despite the fact that on Oct. 11th the National Enquirer pretty much put you on notice that they are and have been looking into your personal affairs?

This is a tale for Ripley's Believe it or Not.

Gallup responses to my previously posed questions:
Gallup's Daily Poll, conducted and reported entirely at Gallup's expense, involves a daily sample of 1,000 randomly selected Americans. The random selection process ensures respondents are included from all relevant geographic areas and demographic groups in proper proportions. Since California includes approximately 18% of the U.S. population, approximately 18% of our respondents each day are from California. This means the poll is an accurate prediction of the national popular vote if the election was held today, but it does not reflect electoral votes. With a few notable exceptions, the winner of national popular vote usually wins the Electoral College vote as well.

We are not able to do state-by-state polling with a sample of 1,000. On a given day, we may only have one or two respondents from sparsely populated states like Wyoming or Vermont. Those numbers are much too small to be statistically significant, so we wouldn't report them separately. A much larger sample would be required, and this is beyond Gallup's resources without a sponsor.

USA Today sponsors the Gallup/USA Today polls, and they may have us conduct state-by-state polling closer to the election, but that has not been announced yet.

About John Edwards.

I don't think the affair is an issue. It's the GD LYING that these men do.

WTH don't they just say, "Yep" and let it go at that? It's always the cover up.

As "House" says, 'everybody lies.'

Edwards is a FOOL if he takes a paternity test.

I feel the fooder coming on thick from the Neo Cons, who of course nevah do anything like this.

tt

Bowman -- I hope I'm not one of your perfect posters. Now what'll ya have? I'm pouring heavy at this point, tee hee.

KGC

Those Tahitians with the flaming staffs and body slapping would liven things up.

Don't they allow cellphones on jets? I forgot this one causes trouble between the libertarians and the people that don't want some idiot rachetjawing next to them for three freeking hours.

Jamie
Whirling dervishes seem appropriate too

UB -- My OC Sistah! You get in here too. I'll make you a diet cocktail. And Karolenna -- you and I can go out cruising for liberal hotties in the DC Metro area later. Pull up a chair and let me tell you about the time I actually considered whether dear departed hubby's lying about his plitical affiliation was grounds for annulment. (He was a GOP-Reagan freak and I didn't know it before I married him. And know it wasn't a Vegas-style, lost weekend marriage -- we actually dated for three years before we tied the knot.)

Okay we have tahitian fire dancers, a conga line of presidential hopefuls, delegates in silly hats.

Now if the Convention were a romantic Situation comedy? What would happen.

"WTH don't they just say, "Yep" and let it go at that? It's always the cover up."

I liked GHW Bush's answer -- "This doesn't deserve a response."

No lie. No response. Smart move.

Alicia
He must have been hot for you to keep that lie up for three years...and I consider that grounds for annulment or even murder.

And I agree that technically this Edwards admission shouldn't have anything to do with whether he'd be a good atty general....but the problem is that he wouldn't be allowed to make any decisions without being tarred and feathered in the press.

Wow I love Pandora when I'm on the computer ... Billy Holiday, "Good Morning Heartache" followed by Queen Latifah with "Lush Life".

Yes, KGC -- He was hawt and truth be told, he fit the profile of a liberal DEM, so what did I know?. Irish Catholic, family from MA, grew up with pictures of JFK and the Pope on the dining room wall. I was shocked to find out that he was GOP! FWIW, his family was surprised to find this out too. I made it my special project to turn him into a DEM. Which he finally did, but it took me 10 years. When I ran for the VA legislature as a DEM, he was still a GOP. I'm still not sure if he voted for me.

Pour me a double on the double!

No really, I'm drinking wine.

"I don't think the affair is an issue"

You know that isn't the first time I heard that come from a D female. Almost makes one believe D females either liked being cheated on, or just expect it. As one of this blogs more senior females told me one day while talking about infidelity, "D just know how to enjoy life." Well if that is the case, I hope Edwards is enjoying his new found fame, and I hope to hear him speak at the D convention. Edwards AG? LMFAO. You people are starting to hallucinate. I would be careful of what I was drinking or smoking, because it is affecting your thinking.

Jamie -- I loaded Pandora on my Facebook, but haven't actually put any songs on it -- I spent a lot of time loading favorite artists thought that would be it. KInda ran out of time at that point.

8 o'clock and it is O time, as in Olympics.

FRy,

It isn't a matter of "enjoyment". D women just have a better grasp of reality than R women seem to have or at least admit to having. Men behaving badly is not a wonderful thing, but it is something to be dealt with. You either resolve it or leave it.

Poor R women have to stand there and smile nobly while their preacher husbands explain how they really didn't like the boy they were caught with in the bathroom and how much they love their wives.

Alicia
He must have thought you were pretty hot too -- that's a long time to keep your true beliefs under wraps...

Alicia

I have two stations

Eclectic R Us
Piano Bar

You can do a search and add them to your stations if you like. What did you name your station?

Well, a predictable response:

Democrats move quick to lessen damage of John Edwards Affair.

http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=5544983

Make that a triple.

FryDaddy, as Jamie says women, all women, know men do that.

I don't know why other than they have an ON & OFF switch.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/tiptoe221/manwoman-3.jpg

It would only be YOU men who understand it.

Explain?

tt

AND, I don't wanna hear a peep about Edwards outta KO. I Know he likes Elizabeth Edwards.

I like KO & he usually speaks for me, but he's a serial cad, too.

*aren't they all*

tt

I think I will actually watch KO tonight. Let's see how holier than thou the big head can get.

Frybaby, how about your R Newt Gingrich divorcing his wife while she's IN THE HOSPITAL with cancer? And then remarrying.

Neither political party nor gender has anything to do with this. It's everyone.

tt

Hey Patsi

Right now I'm listening to Tanya sing "When I die" What is she up to these days?

Patsi, that's true about Bush 41. And there have mucho rumors about his extra marital affairs.

tt

dog

so true...

These guys need to learn from the Europeans

Get a mistress who knows how to keep her mouth shut. Let wife know about mistress. Keep your mouth shut.

"true about Bush 41."

Tiptoe -- And a friend of mine in Texas swears that "W" paid off HIS mistress and shipped her to Aspen in 1999. He said it could have easily been tracked down and proven. But the press was too busy branding Al Gore as the inventor of the Internet.

Jamie -- I didn't set up a Pandora station yet. Will have to look at it again when I have more time to mess with it.

Alicia

It is really easy to do, or you can just pick the kind of music you like from the already programmed Genre stations and load them in for your use.
I have "Delta Blues" and "Classical" but there are lots of others.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/08/the-august-horror.html#comment-125987

TT -- Jennifer Fitzgerald served under George Bush in a variety of positions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jennifer_Fitzgerald

I'm back.

It's Edwards's business. It's Elizabeth Edwards's business.
It's Ms. Hunter's business. I am talking about the details of how to manage the affair.

The goddam lying is MY business. It's your business.
This scumbag lied repeatedly to us about the affair, said it never happened.

His former campaign manager, Bonoir, is furious...played like a patsy...embarrassed.

Edwards was only #4 for me, and I didn't sent him any money; I had little invested in his campaign emotionally, except I love his wife like all the US does.

Edwards says "...beat me up if you want to..."...let the public flogging begin and continue until the rotten memory of the bastard is gone! Despicable human being.

Alicia,

Cheers! I'm sipping a cold glass of white wine.

Love the broom reference. I'm ready to fly with you all.

Alicia

Did she ever get to the top of her profession?

Prf Marcia

I'm thinking of upgrading to a Swiffer Sweeper. They are such a pretty turquoise color.

dog,

I was horrified about the mayor's dogs being killed. I couldn't even watch
the whole clip. My two dogs are like my children.

My little baby lap dog Pouponne d'Fleur was a progeny of a full blood malamute and a full blood Aussie Cattle dog ..................she saw me thru thick and thin from one end of the country to the other from 79 to 92......nashville, denver, florida.........whatta doggie.

I've had so many reactions while reading this that I have to start with the most recent and hope I can rember the others.

Patsi - I'm glad you like my comment re whether or not Obama will be a good pres. I was surprised as I read it that it was mine. The most important part to me is how worried I am. I keep thinking that something good has to happen - it can't go on and on being bad. Then I think about history - HA! - : century after century of bad things happening and lives of ordinary people being trampled under the feet of poweful people fighting each other.

Quiet observer - I get what you're trying to do, but I'm not sure you're gonna be able to walk that tight line for long.

Karolenna - I had to read your post to see what all the talk was about. I had seen that author on Jon Syewart and agreed with a lot of what he said. However, I cannot imagine how he and his wife picked out a house because of the lawn decorations of other houses.

What tickles me is the idea that people prefer to be with others who have had the same kinds of life experiences. The extrapolation of that is the fact that ethnic background and even race are often un-important, and religion, also. I think that's why our country has blended as much as it has. The ultimate desire is to speak with people who use the same emotional language. That's why my siaters and I and their children are so close.

But I also have a real need to be around people very different from me. Most of my old friends are of opposite political and/or religious views. My apartment complex is a mix of black, mexican, Fijian, and white.
Actually, I'm not sure about the black and mexican - they may be pretty mixed. and that's delightful to me.

As for Karolenna's date, I can NOT undersand how you stood it as long as you did. I know I couldn't have - I'd have had to butt in and hope I did it nicely. Karolenna,
you don t' seem passive here, so maybe you didn't even want the date to go well. You sure made yourself suffer! What a creep. I hope you check out the next one's attitudes before you even meet him - what a disgusting time you had. Did you want to take a shower when you got home?

As for the sorting, I think it's always been done and that's one of the causes of ghettos. A ghetto isn't necessarily forced by prejudice - sometimes it's self-imposed.

Well, I think I took care of some of my reactions. If I remember more, I'll let you know. HA! (as if you had any doubt!)

Oh, yeah, Alicia, make mine a screwdriver, easy on the oj, please.

Jamie - Haha! The Bushies got poor old Jennifer dumped into a life of seclusion after the fur smugling incident with Jebbie's wife, Columba.

I'll work on the Pandora project this weekend. Thanks for the tips.

KGC........could I have a triple beefeaters' and hold all the, uh like......other stuff?

Sturge -- Yes you Can!

If not.........wild turkey and water back...........

waaaaaay back.

Jamie -- Tanya divides her time between Nashville and LA. She hasn't recorded lately though. I hate that & wish she would. There are very few song stylists as fine as TT.

YES I CAN......oh god, you could have no idea how those words fill me with hope.......and fear that hope is crap......and .......oh wait......I'm getting political again.....

A room full of gin drinkers can't be all bad. :-)

Hold the vermouth .... and as sturgeon says ... all that other stuff.

Sturge, I'm pouring Plymouth or Citdel gin -- otherwise, I think I have some Wild Turkey in the bar. On the rocks or neat?

of course the main gin is tanqueray.....it carries connotations of mystical magical exuberances......

Oh Mr. Fish

Here's where you start with the esences of the blossom

http://bluekitchen.net/ultimategins.html

Alicia,

You mentioned hunky men. Are there really hotties in the DC area? Sign me up to go cruising with you and whoever else you invited!

Jamie,

You probably look chic on that turquoise Swiffer Sweeper. Is it neon?

This Alicia woman has hidden depths. She pours a mean bar and knows where of she speaks. I may start ordering single malt and let her surprise me.

Marcia

You know wherever I go, there are bound to be fireworks of some kind.

I used to be a Tanqueray snob -- now it's Citadelle as my main gin, with Hendricks when I'm feeling extra fancy. Plymouth Navy is a good pour too -- the first recipe for dry martini a called for it.

Okay. Here's my Convention as Sitcom

The convention opens with all the usual business as usual.

Tuesday, Hillary is making her speech. As she finishes

Unseen until the last minute behind her: Barack appears

"Hi HIl, what are you doing?"
"Er finishing a speech Barack.
"Busy afterwards?
"Really had no other plans.
"Wanna be VP for the next 8 years?

Crowd comes totally unglued.

I just heard on CNN that a big campaign donor paid Rielle, Edward's other lady, for "relocation" and living expenses. Evidently, her living expenses are still being paid. (Nice work if you can get it).

Why would rich Democratic donors pay this woman? Doesn't the DNC need these wealthy donors to support the Dem party more than to support Edward's
mistress?

I think I'll open another bottle of chardonnay.

Jamie - your script for the convention is hilarious!

Otherwise, all the talk of gin reminds that something
happens to me when I drink gin. It is MOST definitely not pretty. Just my vodka screwdriver, please, Alicia.
(If I ask for gin, ignore me.)

Bombay fan here but I've learned after the first one...who cares...and I like at least three olives...a little salad with my cocktail...don't like to drink on an emptys stomach.

"Obama’s made the same mistake by lying about his birth certificate — so far the press hasn’t looked into that, but there’s a reason Obama put a fake birth certificate out there, and that act alone will come back to haunt him. Just like he lied when he told ... reporters on June 5th that he and Michelle have never, ever, never in their lives made anti-American remarks, and that those remarks could never have been caught on tape to be played by Republicans after the Democrats’ Convention. When their remarks do come out, not only will Obama be exposed for the liar ... he is, but all the Pinocchios in the media ... staked their reputations on swearing the GOP has no tapes of either of the Obamas making anti-American nasty remarks. Howard Dean, Donna Brazile, Nancy Pelosi, and Harry Reid know those tapes are real, and pushed Obama’s candidacy anyway — so when he implodes, when all the lies catch up to him, the public needs to hold the DNC leadership accountable as well."

http://hillbuzz.wordpress.com/2008/08/08/great-merciful-zeus-bathroom-hiding-obama-surrogate-john-edwards-admits-to-bathroom-hiding-and-to-affair-but-is-still-lying-about-his-love-child/

KGC

The big problem with those darn martini classes is that three giant olives on a toothpick displaces way too much liquid.

Need to design a much deeper glass.

Jamie
So true of the old original martini glass but today's supersized cocktail glass no problem.

"Most recently, Edward's other woman, Rielle, has been living in a three million dollar mansion in Santa Barbara." Apparently, Rielle was "struggling" financially before she met Edwards.

Wasn't it just three weeks ago Edwards was on the short list for VP?

Marcia -- You can come on the DC cruise anytime.

Jamie -- I usually have Glenfiddich on the bar -- nothing fancy -- I'm not much of a scotch drinker, due to a bad experience in my early years.

One thing Mr. Obama needs to remember:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7pE41MZ424&feature=related

boop
that's so funny.."don't give me gin even If I ask"...I need a sign that says ..whatever she's having don't give her more than two.
Jamie
Sitcom is right...more likely he would try to give her the hook

All you grouches

I just think it would be a great way to turn the convention on its ear, completely flummox the media, and have a darn good time while guarteeing a landslide victory.

BTW, I really don't think this election is all that close. I'm just trying to set it up so that it is a total 45+ state sweep.

"John Edwards has a better shot at becoming VP than Hillary does."

Which is precisely why I no longer consider myself a loyal Democrat. And why I stopped contributing to the party.

Hey Boop! Vodka for you!

Jamie -- Your Denver scenario is my dream. Oooh yes!

KGC -- special olives for you, well steeped in gin, super-sized glass.

Here' an exercise for you. I wrote a blog article about "wishes"

http://jdurward.blogspot.com/2007/03/making-wishes.html

What would be your wishes?

could I but wish........I would wish that all human beings were not so infernally stupid greedy and degenerate......that they could be imbued with the spirit of Mr. Rogers and Capt. Kangaroo.......that they could live somewhat up to what the red words in the bible say.......that they were in effect.......not so Human, all too human.......

oh.....and I wish I could share a martini with KGC.....one each that is........

"all the talk of gin reminds that something
happens to me when I drink gin. "

Bethy -- that cracked me up. Once, years and years ago, when my sister had just started teaching school, and I was in college -- we were on a road trip, stopped at a motel for the night and drank a bunch of gin. My sis jerked awake in the middle of the night and yelled, "I CAN'T FIND MY NOSE!"

swish the glass in vermouth.....pour it all out and fill with gin.......bombay, tanqueray, or beefeater.....el martino

Well said, Sturge.

Peeps, the hot tub is beckoning and I have an early trip tomorrow. But I'm leaving the bar open --party on and try to play nice.

Ciao for now y'all!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NR0M1sWvVIo

I wish everyone could be like Tom

Be careful what you wish for Sturge..
I love your part of the country

Patsi,

Love that song. One of my favorite Robert Heinlein quotes:

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.

Jamie,

I love your wish list. Thanks for the link.

I particularly liked #5: "Everyone should have at least one great love."
I've had mine, but it didn't last. So, I hope to have another sometime.
That brings me to one of my wishes-- that if the first great love ended too soon, that everyone would have a second chance at one other great love.

Another wish I have is that all the stray or homeless animals in the world would be rescued and taken to "no kill shelters" in beautiful areas in the mountains or adopted by loving people.

I've been gone all day. John Edwards had an affair? How sad is that? I thought he was a stand-up guy. I worked with my brother-in-law today. We measured about 27 houses and cottages along the Kalamazoo River and the woods nearby. I was surprised at how many of these summer home/cottages were owned by out of state families. Many of them from Illinois. We measured this beautiful house along the river. One I had only seen from the other side of the river. Just gorgeous! Some of the cottages were built on a wooded hillside. Major effort to get to these. Walking up stairs/steps on the hillside that were cinder blocks. I also got to meet the mayor of Saugatuck. He seemed like a pretty nice guy. In one last bit of news, my Mom had my Dad put into the Hospice House of Holland. That is a permenant move. Anyway, I hope you all had a good day.

GREAT quote, Jamie. Reminds me of something my graduate advisor told me when I sheepishly added yet another field of study to my masters program:

"That's fine, the new world will belong to generalists."

12 yrs.ago my very good friend died of cancer.I believe she could have beaten it if not for the humiliation she suffered because of her husband's very public affair.He was a county sheriff and it was in the paper every day because the woman involved sued for sexual harassment.She had worked for him.

My friend had a hard time facing the public because of all the publicity.In my heart I think she just gave up fighting the cancer.

I do hope Elizabeth Edwards can withstand the publicity.The sooner the press drops this story the better it will be for her.

Ruth

And you need to get your life a mirror.

I would wish that all religions would cease to exist, that humans would clearly and with purpose understand their relationship to the planet earth and earthly beings, and as a end result we would live a healthier, stronger, more enriched life filled with the simple pleasures.....and no child shall ever have to witness their parents being blown into tiny pieces by an American bomb or any other explosive.

he posts as if he were able to lay claim to being somewhat relevant. talk about amazing

Patsi

"That's fine, the new world will belong to generalists."

The specialists are all well and good for a modern world, but it there is ever a crash, survival will depend on those folks who know how to do a little bit of everything.

Ghost ,
Have to say that was a sad display.

Sure I may pay for that comment....but jeez!

Jamie...

"The specialists are all well and good for a modern world, but it there is ever a crash, survival will depend on those folks who know how to do a little bit of everything."

Good thing I've kept all my Foxfire books, then! If I can't do something, I may have a shot at learning how (or trying!) from one of them.

sturgeone,

L'il Fugly's a mashed brain product of Animal Farm.

Better folk grew up on Freddy the Pig -- here's what's been reprinted of the Knopf originals -- courtesy of Freddythepig.org --

http://www.freddythepig.org/reprints.html

Corey
Thanks for your post yesterday about the garage sales burglaries --we were going to post the notice of the next community meeting about our neighborhood burglaries and after reading your post...decided against it...we went around and knocked on doors instead.

It sounds like your family is making good decisions for the care of your father.

Imagine there's no heaven.....it's easy if you try
no hell below us.....above us only sky
imagine all the people living life in peace

well guess what's the fly in that ointment........HUMANS

ta daaaaa

Imagine there's no heaven.....it's easy if you try
no hell below us.....above us only sky
imagine all the people living life in peace

well guess what's the fly in that ointment........HUMANS

ta daaaaa

Walter Brooks.......Freddy the Pig......Jinx the Cat......not a problem......the greatest teaching books for young people which have ever been written.......

HW

"Good thing I've kept all my Foxfire books, then! If I can't do something, I may have a shot at learning how (or trying!) from one of them."

The "Dark Ages" weren't really dark. All the known information that hadn't been destroyed hid out in the libraries of monestaries. They may have been the works of the Devil, but they were there until humanitty needed them for the Renaissance.

Think of yourself as a protective cloister.

I see a coward and one man.

Do you know which is which?

I was pretty devestated when I was younger and found out my favorite baseball player and near-idol Steve Garvey was said to have had women in every major league city. A few years ago I heard that when Garvey was playing in San Diego the popular bumper sticker read: "Steve Garvey is not my Padre!" I guess Edwards is no better than Bill Clinton in that respect.

I read every freddy the pig book ever written.....when I was young.......my drunken aunt lived across the street from the charleston county library on rutlege street.....to get to see her i had to beg to go to the library and actually spend some time there before going to me old drunk aunt's apartment waiting to be picked up by me old mom......I read plenty books and walter brooks freddy books were very important to me.........

I didn't get to meet the town rabble-rouser today. We were supposed to talk to go see him, but didn't. I guess this guy just likes to cause trouble from what my brother-in-law said. I told my brother-in-law I can't with people who enjoy being a jackass.

"Hatred is the coward's revenge for being intimidated."
-George Bernard Shaw

"I do hope Elizabeth Edwards can withstand the publicity.The sooner the press drops this story the better it will be for her."

I agree Ruth. I was flipping channels tonight and all the chest-beaters were saying how awful it was for Elizabeth Edwards to have to hear this. Makes you want to say -- Okay, a-holes, then give it a rest.

sturge -- are you still around?

I meant to say, I can't deal with people who enjoy being a jackass. Although I will say most of the people we met today were nice. Although one guy asked a lot of questions. Property assessments make some people nervous, it seems.

Bear; 4:45 pm.....That was funny, I'd never heard that before.

Jamie; 8:09 pm.....Europeans have had a few more centuries and a few more arranged marriages to get it right, but I certainly agree...... and if your pouring, make mine Glenfiddich, neat, Thanks ever so. Regarding your fantasy convention, how about, "All's Well That End's Well."

Sturgeone; 8:44 pm....... I'm on edge waiting for Obama too, but I really think she's had him neutered. Wasn't she the one who said " If Hillary can't run her house, how can she run the WH."

Rita

Patsi

That's what I meant by the media wallowing. If at some point it comes out that pubic funds and/or donations of whatever went to this woman then curcify Edwards, but shut up about the affair. That is private and the wife deserves peace to iron it out with her husband without the garbagemeisters climaxing over every luscious detail. Oh God yes yes yes it's awful yes yes it is ......................scream

Shades of "When Harry Met Sally"

For those who care...Scrabble's back in business!

Corey.......you come to understand that the jackass revels in being a jackass......and to avoid the jackass there is no way but that you must go where the jackass isnt ....you are forced to either confront and whack the jackass or surrender the field........which is why i think I must exile from here.......the jackass is such a damn jackass that he has come not to care.about the level of his jackassdom.......he's oblivious......like an auto maton.....or a zombie.......he's a pig let loose, with people running behind him saying "Nice Pig.....only WE understand you.......be the best pig that you can be."

They gather in a tiny cocina off to the side and whack each other on the back over the soundness of their pig's observations......

I say......the pig is a pig.

" Oh God yes yes yes it's awful yes yes it is ......................scream

Shades of "When Harry Met Sally"

Rob Reiner's mom: "I'll have whatever she's having."

*laughing at your Freudian slip, Jamie* (though I know it's only a typo, it's still funny)

"pubic funds"

"He knows nothing; and he thinks that he knows everything. That clearly points to a political career." - George Bernard Shaw

sturge -- this is a shout-out to you for your post yesterday:

http://practicallyperfectpatsi.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/johnme11.jpg

Sturge, you can't leave. Your work is not done here.

freddy the pig longed to be a poet.....trouble is much like Ebenezer Cooke, poet laureate of Maryland, author of the Marylandiad.......he was a godawful poet.....but it was the words with freddy which counted......not a good poem, perhaps but what a great thing to say........

The Sot Weed Factor......the story of Ebenezer Cooke, by John Barth.....

A Blonde Joke for Ms Rielle Hunter;

A young blonde woman was sitting in a boat in the middle of a field, rowing like crazy. Another young blonde woman came down the lane, stopped her car jumped out and ran to the fence and screamed at the girl in the boat, "You;re so damn stupid, you're not getting anywhere, and you're giving us all a bad name and if it wasn't so deep, I'd come out there and smack you."

What do you call six blondes in the back of a pick-up?

Rita

"We rarely think people have good sense unless they agree with us." - Francois De La Rochefoucauld

patsi.....what's that picture?

HW

Pubic needs are public good

I took my scrabble turn. We need to get Alicia in a game.

Lerner and Lowe did well by Pygmalion

Sturgeone,
As I have observed, you operate here with little to no criticism, which I find odd but that doesn't matter, my question to you .....is as you profess to operate at such high standards, why do you continue to belittle and demean a man who you have many times identified as a lower form of life?

I know it's not anything close to compassion or understanding or respect

Hey Patsi,

Did you ever turn up my reprobate cousin?

lol @ Ghost

Did you guys, hear that The National Enquirer, has a story about Obama, having a Love Child? Wouldn't it be funnny if these two ended up not only being best buds, but cheaters together as well?

Vultures:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_zRDchkDXg

Well Corey I understand that concept of not liking individuals.... but you see I don't understand why they continue....and think they are any better than the person they dislike as they continue attacking.

Isn't that what they dislike to begin with?.....it is really difficult for me to understand....

sturge -- a picure of Hartford during the last couple of years of his life....

Burrito......I'll go and get you a quote, but for now.....my "professing to operate at high standards" is some kind of blather from your imagination.....I operate at visceral and low standards.....I am one with the baseness of human endeavor......Perhaps i have overdone expressing my feelings if it has come to belittling and demeaning.......this man you speak of is a sub-verminous form of protoplasm which seemingly exists only to further the possibility of ugliness being universal..............

Ghost - grow some balls.

"Hey Patsi,

Did you ever turn up my reprobate cousin?'

I'm having a senior moment -- which cousin? :)

(In my family we have many reprobates....)

See? He's Impervious.

"What do you call six blondes in the back of a pick-up?"

Depends
if there is a bass boat and a case of beer on ice, Heaven

jack

Okay just never mind....I can't keep up with you people

so sturge you operate at low life level??/ lol is that what you are saying?

all of you have too long of a history for anyone new to understand....work on that for a bit

Just took a break to watch Last of the Summer Wine. I liked the older shows a little better, but this one tonight was pretty cool.

What a horribly sad story about the Edwards family. They have sure had something terrible things to get through.

Frankly, I'm not a bit surprised. The man is incredibly good-looking and is very intelligent with a good sense of humor and in a position of power. He didn't have a chance. Don't mis-understand me - it's not just predatory women who go after them. It's also not just women who are predatory - men, gay or straight or bi, are predatory, too. But good-looking and powerful, male or female, creates an irresistable target. Bill is, of course, the favorite example, but look at that creep from Indiana, Dan somebody! What about Henry Hyde? Talk about an emetic!

So I will cast no stones at Edwards, although I can understand all the other angry responses. We have to react from where we see things. One thing that bothers me is that , in general, morals seem to be synonymous. (I just checked that word in the dictionary cuz it looks wrong!) ...synonymous with sex.

Morals and character - those two words are almost always used rather loosely, I think. Morals have more to do with honesty and appreciation of other people than with sexual behaviour. Those have to do with sex, yes in most cases, but morals go farther than that.

As for character, how many stories have you read lately about decades-long good marriages between an innocent person and someone who was really a concentration camp guard. Those are extremes, but there are an awful lot of people who find out something about a loved one after his/her death. I maintain that it is almost impossible to judge character.

As for the Edwards', it's their story and their heartbreak. I just hope nothing else turns up.

People who admire a politician have to be constantly awake to the possibility of that politician being totally false. That's what bothers me about the lack of questioning and doubt on the part of Obama's followers, and why they are called a cult. There seems to be no real wondering and questioning. That is scary.

Well, I warned you that I'd remember other reactions I had had, and I did. Once again I just kept talking, and I'm sorry. I'm afraid I killed the good mood that was runnning thru the posts. I just can't help it. You guys are all so provocative and cause so many thoughts in my mind, and I'm afraid if I don't let them out, I'll go mad, I tell you, mad!

And I didn't even get areound to commiserating with KGC!

Patsi

Duane Scott. Experienced sound man, hard drinker, blah blah blah

Good Night All.

SEe you in the morning.

WOW that was a show stopper !

Night all -
I tried to understand....and all I got was some sick visual.....

I understand it, Burrito. For several years at work, I had the attitude that I should try and get along with everyone I worked with. About 5 years ago, I realized that it wasn't realistic to try and get along with everyone. I had a major argument with a co-worker about 4 years ago. Afterwards, we only spoke to each other when we absolutely had to. I felt bad that it came to that, but that was what happened. Weeks later, he got fired. We never reconciled. There were some people at work I just could not get along with no matter how I tried. I finally decided they were not worth the effort.

burrito.....i am one with many levels ...I understand most of them.......has to do with life experience....... playing honky tonks from here to moose jaw in rooms filled with all manner of humans with all of whom I have reacted........I found that the urge to punish is one of the most pervasive traits of humans, and that the people with whom i had most affinity were those of professed kindness and mercy.

If you cant keep up.......go lay up on the porch with a nice cool lemonade......but yes......I operate on base levels, for good reason.......the reason is i appreciate honesty. Even the honesty of a schmuck., while never forgetting that being "honest" does not equate with "decent".

Kgc.....you ever come to this part of the country again......you might want to call.......we have creeks for kayaking.....the beach is right over there......the fish to catch, the crabs to boil, the shrimps to net, the mullet to smoke.......(in a smoker) ........just come, I dare ya......

ha ha ha

" Experienced sound man, hard drinker, blah blah blah "

Aha! I do remember -- I asked a couple of sound guys and they didn't know him....but the town has grown so much now that it doesn't mean much!

Ask my husband......but he won't talk to anyone without an appointment and clearance....email me and I'll provide someone for you to contact if you are still so curious about my personal life?

I am out

Thanks Sturge for your reply.

Interesting day here, I see
Glad, I missed it.
My only real comment is some things are obvious as are some people. I call em as I see em.
If you sleep with dogs you wake up with fleas.
As for the back channel there aren't very many that I give a damn about their opinion.
The only one for certain I will take time to read is Mr Dooty.

Jack

hey sturgee...

Michelle Shocked

All you hypocrites and liars
In the temple seeking gain
All you senators and lawyers
With your motives to explain
All you victims and you heroes
Your petitions to complain
All you murderers and martyrs
On the fields where you lay slain
On the just and unjust
Alike it doth rain
And the quality of mercy is not strained

Yes vengeance and revenge
Are just two words for pain
And the quality of mercy is not strained

Did not I crucify my Lord?
Did not I bind Him in chains?
Did not I three times betray Him?
Three times deny His name?
Did not I cast the first stone?
Then justify the blame?
Did not He die for my sins
But never would I do the same?

Oh I've been three times a sinner
And two times a saint
And the quality of mercy is not strained

Yes for Love if it's Love
Is changing but unchanged
And the quality of mercy is not strained

Hypocrites and liars
Senators and lawyers
Victims and heroes
Murderers and martyrs
Crucify my Lord
Bind Him in chains
Three times betray Him
Justify the blame
On the just and unjust
Alike it doth rain
And the quality of mercy is not strained

Thanks Patsi

Just wondered what had happened to Duane. He was always the sort of odd man out. He got his musical talent from his father who still played drums in his 80s, but mommy spoiled him rotten and he never really recovered.

ROFL -- no wonder UB acts the way she does. She has "an important husband" through which to gain acceptance. Ig'nert response, UB....and very telling.

Jamie -- I'll check again -- but I'm not down on the Row so much these days. It was more fun when I wasn't working on books....and chained to a computer.

Dex -- Michelle Shocked is a favorite of mine....GREAT artist and writer.

Dex.....I never fail to bow before your stated feelings......I know reverence when I see it.

One thing good about the hot weather is the okra is setting on. I've had several messes so far. My favorite way to cook okrsa is to dice up some bacon in a skillet and brown. slice up your okra in the bacon grease and cook entil tender and the okra doesn't slime.
Many of you may not know that Okra also has a very beautiful flower.
I've posted a picture on my blog as well as a picture of a new butterfly.

http://showyourgarden.blogspot.com/

Jack

James Brown once called "Life Alert Systems" and said "Help, I've fallen and I cant get down."

letterman

I tried but I just cannot watch the Okra on tv.

Jack -- for some reason I can'tr post on your site tonight -- but yes, that okra flower is beautiful.

One question to anyone watching the Olympic ceremonies: Is there something strange about the child they are calling a nine year old?

Sturge

i was in a discussion with a lady of Japanese descent. She told me that she like boiled okra. I ask how could anybody like slime boiled okra. She told me that Japanese appreciated texture in their food and told me she liked it over rice.
I think my reply insulted her(imagine that).
I said that the image of boiled okra over rice brought up images in my mind that only a Jr high boy could enjoy. UMMMM , maggots and snot, yum yum

Jack

"But good-looking and powerful, male or female, creates an irresistable target."

I agree, Bethy -- target is a good word.

Patsi
I guess the word is out on you.;-)

The comment section is turned on so damnifiknow.

jack

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/08/the-august-horror.html#comment-125810

ND: AND to drop out in the first place .... That was my first thought , when the rumors started .. and they say he's for change .. yea right! ~~~

Whskyjack; 11:14 pm...... Nothing so sublime Jack.......what do you call six blondes in the back of a pick-up? EMPTIES.

Patsi; 11:23 pm.......... Patsi is absolutely correct, all women have penises, sometimes their own, sometimes sombody else's.

Rita

Har.......when i was a youngest goober I picked the okra and the squash, (many times wearing shorts).....

I ate fried okra......boiled okra.......pickled okra.......
I wound up with Okra Schmokra........gumbo is good and fried is tolerable.....the rest is, while to many good eating, to me is "I'd rather not."

"all women have penises, sometimes their own, sometimes sombody else's."

Ha -- yes....one thing my father taught me -- don't live your life piggy backing....

Patsi, when my friend was in North Korea, he toured a children's school. The school tour guide was a 12 year-old girl. She was extremely bright and incredibly articulate for a 12 year-old girl. My friend said she was as poised as a veteran newscaster. In North Korea, adults do not talk down to kids. It is considered disrespectful, unless you personally know the child. So, it is no wonder these young children in China seem so smart.

Night everybody, busy day tommorrow

Rita
six blondes in my pickup these days would be those pesky nieces that come by for a visit. the oldest one is now in college. I watched her play hockey in highschool on the boys team. She is a cute sweet little blond but I saw her get mad about some rough play that the refs weren't calling and skate the length of the arena and take a boy twice her size out. Had him skateing around for 5 min shaking his head, wondering what hit him. So if you don't mind I don't think I'll say much about those blonds in the back of the pickup.

Jack

when i was fifteen and working strip joints downtown......a woman with a penis was a quite different proposition from what I think you guys are talking about.........

One was my friend......rachael.........I found out yrs later that she was really Ray, and she died from a beating on the beach when some schmuck found out the penis she had was much too large......

It was not ray leading him on......it was rape gone wrong

Sad stuff, Sturge.

Dang, sturge -- and we haven't even talked about Sid King's.....

who is sid king? he said..........

Ok, one last thought

There was a young lady named Alice
Who had her a hard rubber phallus
She never did dare
Be examined down there
For it is such a strange place for a callus

OMG! Sid King's ultimate strip club on East Colfax.

By the way -- didn't mean to disrespect the killing you mentioned. Just talking about strip joints and old Sid....

rachael was a very pretty woman and a special human being.......filled with kindness and protection for an impressionable and generally handsome , ergo vulnerable youth.......but I never knew at that time she was any other than she appeared to be.......so that leads us to "honesty"......was ray being dishonest in being a woman? Im damned if I know and I'll never care enough to try to find out.......She was Rachael and she helped me a lot, and I loved her.

"So, it is no wonder these young children in China seem so smart."

True, Corey -- I just thought the child was so small for nine years old. Looked about five.

Patsi & Flatus: I've enjoyed hearing about ya`lls memories of days gone by, reminds me of stories my Mom use to tell me ... She was born & grew up on a farm out in what they use to call "The Sticks" .. rural as you can get .. she went to a 1 room Schoolhouse until she was around 10 .. that's when Granpa moved them to the city, he gotten a job at the Steel Mill here in Newport ...

On a yahoo group I'm on, 1 woman has been sharing her families history ... she's in SLC now, but grew up in Mo .. Her family has always love to take picture, someone in her family actually use some of the oldest types of camera .. so, she's got this rich history of her family, that I don't think I'll ever know .. she sent us a lot of the picture, since she was scanning them into her computer to make an album for her Mom & Daughters .. I love reading about histroy, just it harder now to do that ...

!:^}
viv

hope this one goes thru .. 3 times the charm, right? damn Captcha

"She was Rachael and she helped me a lot, and I loved her.'

Major hat tip to you, sturge.

Pats.....I didnt see nor hear of Sid Kings......I had my strip joint experiences all before I hit 20 ........never had much use for them after that unless it meant picking up some money or something.......and being friends with strippers.........

Sturge -- Sid was King on East Colfax during the 70s and maybe into the 80s. I have a great story about when he and I went head to head -- feminist magazine v, strip king....but maybe I shouldn't tell it here.

Will just say that I defended a young topless waitress who worked for him. Sid couldn't understand why....

only thing I saw on east colfax was the 4 seasons and an Evergreen Motel with indoor heated pool before I found an apartment at madison and colfax.......

behind the greek restaurant where I would play their piano and try to join in with the greek circle dance......they led us to believe that we were honorary greeks........

I ate many forms of lamb. The Greeks taught me greek words like skata..........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJZussLzoHM

I can agree with the part that it probably felt good.....nevertheless.......the check comes.......you have to always pay the tab..........

Sturgeone; 12:38 am...... My hat is also off to you Sir, I also have a few friends like that, ones I care a great deal for. I sorry, I know you must miss her.

Jack; .... didn't mean to demean anyone's nieces, it was just a shot at Rielle Hunter...........

Nite Folks......

Rita

Response to post:
"Greek Drama"

This article is in Newsweek, written by Jonathan Alter, who has been
decidedly anti-Clinton since before the primary. Take what he writes or
says with that in mind.

I must say it. Those who watched the Olympic opening ceremony may understand.

Last night, I saw the Chinese version of 'battleship diplomacy'. I witnessed the most intimidating display of unlimited manpower trained to the nth degree with absolutely no sign of duress or discomfort on any of the participants' faces.

What I witnessed was done despite earthquake, despite drought, despite the expenditure of billions upon billions of dollars in purchasing American debt, and despite reports of discontent within segments of the Chinese population.

What I saw was a display of intimidation most immediately targeted towards Indian, Pakistani, North Korean, and Russian audiences with the U.S. waiting in the wings.

It didn't cause me to have palpitations, but it sure as hell conjured visions of the 1936 Olympics hosted by Nazi Berlin.

"Last night, I saw the Chinese version of 'battleship diplomacy'. I witnessed the most intimidating display of unlimited manpower trained to the nth degree with absolutely no sign of duress or discomfort on any of the participants' faces."
flatus, you said it. and so eloquently. all i said last night was "that's scary."

Flatus and patd -- Wow -- I had the same reaction. Not immediately -- at first I was in awe of the power of this spectacle -- that lasted a very short time and then I kept reflecting on what the announcer had said: China represents one-fifth of the world's population.

"People directly in front of them were paying them no mind."
dog, you mean poppi? he probably stopped paying no mind to shrub and shrubette some time ago.

also agree the show said "we have thousands of artists and here is their creative output and work and discipline"...especially discipline.

Dog, Patd

The Bushes and, hence, us were reduced to irrelevance.

I watched that video link of the Edwards interviews with Ms. Hunter....he was obviously flirting with her and it was kind of creepy. But it made me think about a country artist I know who got tripped up in an affair shortly after he got famous. His mother sat him down and said something like this: "The minute you stepped into that spotlight, you became somebody women will adore. You better remember this -- it's the spotlight they're in love with -- not you. You could be the ugliest man in the world and they'd be telling you how handsome you are!"

I had to laugh. Guess it takes your mama to set you straight.

One other thought about the opening ceremonies....I remember when I was an undergraduate and a professor held a showing of Triumph of the Will. Aside from realizing that Leni Riefenstahl was a genius, I was overwhelmed by the power of the propaganda. We all had to go back to the classroom and write a paragraph or so about our reaction. I wrote two words: Sieg Heil.

Thanks for those links, dog. Damn. Paul Newman handled celebrity with such grace and class. And probably one of the best looking men to ever grace the planet!

What was that movie where he played the drunk lawyer? My God he was powerful in that.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/08/the-august-horror.html#comment-126191

Flatus,

I read your post aloud to my husband who responded, "I agree with every word."

In viewing the spectacle, it was hard not to be dazzled, especially by the visual artistry. But the image of goose-stepping soldiers always brings a chill to my spine. Last night as we were watching, my husband remarked, "We better wake up." My rhetorical reply was, "And do what?"

One of the Kings of Comedy, Bernie Mac, has died at age 50

"What was that movie where he played the drunk lawyer? My God he was powerful in that."

Patsi, most likely--The Verdict. He played a broken down alcoholic attorney who sues hospital for medical malpractice for a woman who is in a vegetative state.

Jack Warden is the other plaintiff's attorney who tells him "when they offer you the money that means you won"

As to the opening ceremonies in Bejing.

Along the same lines as others perception--I thought well there is the future of the World--like it or not.

In light of the Edwards news, the interview Katie Couric did with all the candidates about infidelity is interesting. Obama's in particular.

http://cbs2chicago.com/campaign08/presidential.candidates.infidelity.2.614608.html

Good Morning all
Here's a good read from Joan Walsh from Salon.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/walsh/election_2008/2008/08/08/bill_clinton/index.html

Oh here's another from Joan Walsh "Obama Fatigue".

http://www.salon.com/opinion/walsh/election_2008/2008/08/09/obama_fatigue/index.html

Dancing on the head of a pin. Edwards' ABC interview only makes one ask even more questions because of his frequent non-answers to Bob Woodruff's questions.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=5544981&page=1

Example of such a answer.

WOODRUFF: People say they are in contact with her, have told us that you have met her out in California several times. True?

EDWARDS: I met her this last time when I was in California for the very purpose that you and I just spoke about.

But that wasn't the question Edwards was asked. And what about all those homes she has lived in during her pregnancy, several of them in Edwards' home state of North Carolina.
*************************************************************

WOODRUFF: And that picture is absolutely you and you are holding that baby.

EDWARDS: The picture in the tabloid. I have no idea what that picture is.

WOODRUFF: But you've seen it right?

EDWARDS: I did see it and I cannot make any sense out of that. When I went to this meeting you've already asked me about, uh, I was not wearing a t-shirt, I was wearing a long-sleeved shirt with the sleeves rolled up. I don't know who that picture -- I don't know if that picture is me, it could well be, it looks like me. I don't know who that baby is, I have no idea what that picture is.

***

WOODRUFF: But are you saying you don't remember holding that child of Miss Hunter?

EDWARDS: I'm saying you asked me about this photograph, I don't know anything about that photograph, I don't know who that baby is. I don't know if the picture has been altered, manufactured, if it's a picture of me taken some other time, holding another baby -- I have no idea. I was not at this meeting holding a child for my photograph to be taken I can tell you that.

WOODRUFF: You did say you did meet her at a hotel in California.

EDWARDS: She was there, Mr. McGovern was present, and that's where the meeting took place.

WOODRUFF: But you don't remember a baby being there?

EDWARDS: No.

http://www.nationalenquirer.com/sen_john_edwards_caught_with_mistress_and_love_child_in_la_hotel/celebrity/65193

The National Enquirer has files a criminal complaint against the hotel security, all the hotel records will be subpoenaed. The folios will included who rented the rooms, how they were paid for, when they checked in and when they checked out, food beverage, phone calls going out of those 2 rooms. Also what maybe subpoena is hotel security video, floors, lobby, entrances, etc.

How many such meetings have there been, and what is the purpose of such secretive meetings? And we can pretty much conclude if other such meeting did occur, Elizabeth was not made aware of them.

Here's a piece from the LA Times about Hillary's stumping for Sen. Obama in Nevada Friday.

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-campaign9-2008aug09,0,7214808.story

Tony

Followed one of the links near that Salon article. This is a fun read. If anyone thinks marriage is difficult now, buy this book:

http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2008/08/09/marriage_history/

Bernie Mac was allegedly recovering and was supposed to be released today...healthy , not in a body bag.
How irresponsible to his fans to say he was on the road to recovery when indeed he was dying, as earlier reports had it.

The hospital should have been more truthful...this makes them liars...I see no good in reporting a patient is almost totally recovered and then the next press conference has that same patient dead. I loved Bernie Mac in "Bad Santa".

Olympics: It's hard to schedule " watching time " to be able to see your fave events...I don't even try...did see some of US-Japan volleyball...US was winning...and I never know what's live and what's on tape delay...I reckon it's all on tape delay, right? ... Dr. Nancy Snyderman said the "haze" is "mostly just humidity". I have a hard time believing that.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/walsh/election_2008/2008/08/08/bill_clinton/index.html

Whew!
"... when I saw Bill Clinton's touchy interview with ABC's Kate Snow, in which he declared "I am not a racist." It was hard to watch, partly because I believe he'd never have mouthed off like that if his wife was being vetted as V.P. Part of me wished the former president had kept his mouth shut, to protect his wife as well as Obama; part of me still wished Obama surrogates hadn't found it necessary to label our last Democratic president a racist, when he really quite clearly isn't one. I can't shake the feeling that if you want to fret about why the Democratic Party isn't coming back together entirely, just yet, all that mess would be a good place to start cleaning up.

......Democrats will survive. Sheltered white civil rights backers will survive. The Clintons will definitely survive."

Tony, Thanks for linking that Joan Walsh piece. It was just what I needed this morning.

Jamie
Loved the look at marriage link!! I found this line to be very funny "The highest form of love was cerebral love between men" Ha, maybe that's been my problem? Not enough cerebral love.....HA HA

RAPING GEORGIA
RUSSIA INVADES AN AMERICAN ALLY
http://www.nypost.com/seven/08092008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/raping_georgia_123664.htm

NEW THREAD, FOLKS!

Chloe
I needed a good dose of Joan myself this morning,oh and also my iced tea.I find Joan to be very balanced. When I used to watch Hardball and Joan would be on she always stood up to Matthews regarding the Clintons....Oh God I have this yard work to do in this Florida heat...Oh but I have the pool for comfort so no tears here....

Jamie.

"It isn't a matter of "enjoyment". D women just have a better grasp of reality than R women seem to have or at least admit to having. Men behaving badly is not a wonderful thing, but it is something to be dealt with. You either resolve it or leave it"

Oh yeah that's right it was you who said that. Couldn't remember if it was you or Sheila.

Not not really Jamie, most women just stick around and take the BS lies, the lame excuses they are being spooned feed, they tend to over look the very obvious signs of a cheating husband to avoid confrontation, acknowledge the truth their husband has been slip sliding away with another female, a younger female, a better looking female, etc.. They become so beaten down, so demoralized, they lose whatever self confidence they ever had, by the actions of these cheating males they call husbands and fathers, they know no where else to go, they feel struck unable to move, they sink under their own weight of guilt and indecision. It is just another form of abuse wrapped up with different paper. You can try to rationalize away this all you want, try to paint it with a new color, use a new brush, the truth is they have been abused. I personally see this stuff come across my desk everyday of the week, and 99% of the time the ending is always the same. The wife goes back to the cheat, and guess what, he cheats again because he knows nothing will happen to him, he fully understands that psychologically his wife has been reduce to that of a puddle of water. What is so typical here are most of the D females, because Edwards was once a leading D in their eyes, are trying to somehow justify Edwards' bad behavior by sighting the same type of bad behavior committed by some R's. Trying to award bad behavior by sighting another's bad behavior is pretty much a self defeating task. In the end all you have to look up to is an example of bad behavior.