Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Hillary has a tightrope to walk right now. She has a huge base, as big as Obama's. The O-team -- and Obama himself -- have dismissed that block as irrelevant. Oh sure, he's making noises, but it's obvious that the base doesn't interest him. He's pandering to expatriate Republicans and indies.

What Hillary MUST do is to reassure her voters that no matter what the new Joshua thinks of them, she's in their corner, as were they in hers. It's her power base and she's not going to diss them.

Obama has said enough to alienate some key elements of the party.

HRC is not going away as quietly as some would have liked. I hate to say I told you, but after the DNC did their little backdoor stunt and push the enlighten one to the head of the line, what did you think the Clinton's would do, roll over and play dead? The Obamaics must have forgot who they are dealing with, and accusing or insinuating BC is a racist is aas close to suicidal as one can become. The Clinton's are going to get their pound of flesh off of skinny BHO's hide. My wife will vote for McCain if BHO is the D's nominee, but will vote for HRC if she can become the D's nominee.

No Obama ads at gas stations:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080806/ap_on_el_pr/obama_gas_pump_ads

"Obama has said enough to alienate some key elements of the party"

Oh god Patsi so True! I still can't believe the O-teams treatment or lack of concern of the working class base.I was talking to my friend and fellow GM assembly line worker in Michigan yesterday and he has some of the same feelings about Sen.Obama as alot of us do.My friend said" I just don't feel like he gets us or even wants are vote".Amazing! Hope your visit with your sister is a good one.

Fry
Here's a piece about The Clintons from Karen Tumilty of Time.

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1830119,00.html

HRC is not going away as quietly as some would have liked. I hate to say I told you, but after the DNC did their little backdoor stunt and push the enlighten one to the head of the line, what did you think the Clinton's would do, roll over and play dead? The Obamaics must have forgot who they are dealing with, and accusing or insinuating BC is a racist is aas close to suicidal as one can become. The Clinton's are going to get their pound of flesh off of skinny BHO's hide. My wife will vote for McCain if BHO is the D's nominee, but will vote for HRC if she can become the D's nominee.

Posted by: FryDaddy | August 7, 2008 7:06 AM

I have to say I truly agree with your post 100%....

I think it was amazing that BC upped his ante this week by saying that he will tackle AIDS in the AA community....They are slowly coming back. And this time they will do it with much more caution. I think this presidency is lost for them, but DNC should watch their back.
I loved Ed Rendell last week, when he said once again: NEVER count the Clinton´s out! As one of thier loyalists, I think that meant something, surely at this stage of the campaign.

Also saw the short list of VP hopefuls for BO from a credible source.
Richardson has fallen off the radar. I wonder what his position is now.....

Let's see. If Mr Edwards and Gov Richardson reclaim their pledged delegates, and the grassroots lean on scumbag supers who talk out of both sides of their mouths on their obligation to vote for the strongest candidate as shown by primary results in the SDs' states, then what would the delegate count be?

Oh, yeah, anyone really believe the Obama DNC will seat all the Michigan and Florida delegates if there's any question as to the outcome?

Maybe he should work on a name change. Something like [gasp] George Obama.

which word best describes the woman who threatens to screw up the most important election i've seen in 62 years of life?

self-centered?
selfish?
evil?
maniacal?

Just had to take a vacation from vacation to say....ROLLCALL! Hil'ry Clinton! Yes!

Craig, typo???
"...Democrat ticket -- to giver her supporters ..."

I'll bet the powers-that-be at the DNC are beside themselves about now.

Patriotic

Confident
Strong
Within her rights to do so
With millions of supporters backing her
With a better chance of winning the general than BO

(It seems jp is having a round of DNC-itis.)

This is a great lesson to teach the kids about America - that even when you lost fair and square you can still weasel in and out of loopholes and procedures, fracture the party even further and lose the election for the Democrats out of spite.

The Democrats WILL figure out how to lose again. So why not vote for the candidate that actually represents your views instead of approximates them?

Snowball sez - Two parties good - four parties bad!

'If Mr Edwards and Gov Richardson reclaim their pledged delegates"

Not sure claiming his delegates is the most important thing facing John Edwards these days.

http://www.newsobserver.com/politics/story/1167499.html

If two parties are better than four, I guess that means a one-party system would be best of all, comrade?

If the shoe was on the other foot, I think you would be singing a different tune. (It sounds like jp also has a problem with the shoe being an older woman's pump...somebody has mommy issues.)

ps - She got more votes...if you figure in the folks who have buyers' remorse for buying BO...she's the one who could beat McCain.

Hi everyone,

I have to thank Craig for broaching this topic which has been on my mind
since the primary ended.

Patsi, your first place post was very good. The DNC and the O Team
have tried everything to make the Clintons and those who voted for Hillary irrelevant. But, It's painfully obvious there is still a great divide in the
Democratic party.

The Clintons still have a lot of power and they have every right to use it whether at the Denver convention or in speeches. During the primary, Bill Clinton was treated with great disrespect by the media and by surrogates for Obama.

Why all this fake surprise that Bill's a bit miffed?

Bill and Hillary can still charm an audience like rock stars and they're not going quietly into that good night.

blueINdallas - Sorry. No mommy issues here. Nice try, though. She gets more votes if you add in all the votes that she said didn't count. Oh, right - vote count doesn't mean anything - it's the delegate count that gets you the nomination. But I guess we'll just have to keep changing the rules until HRC wins, huh? After all, America doesn't need a president that other countries like and seem to trust. That would be a stupid thing.

I dont think Bill Clinton is "miffed", "jealous", "petulant", "sulking", or any of those perjoratives.......I think he and hillary are quite pragmatic....and I think O better figure out how to deal with it and cut a deal.....cause this isnt "petulance"......Hillary's supporters want to be representation.

Ah, Paul, the Law of Rules--the ones the Rules Committee through out the window.

and also want to be represented.....lol

Blue,

See the BHO ppl though this was all over with, after all she endorsed him, or did she? I don't think HRC ever did, if anyone read/heard here speech, it sure didn't sound like this battle was over. I guess if this was a mob movie we would be calling "to go to the mattresses", but here we are calling to "go to the floor". Denver is going to be a very interesting place

"But, I guess we'll just have to keep changing the rules until HRC wins, huh?"

What about the rules that were changed in not counting the votes in Michigan and Florida?

strug,

I'd be miffed.

ProMar.......I'd be coldly figuring out how to win.......like all the rest of them......

DNC Platform Committee meeting to be on C-Span2 at 10:00 AM and on C-Spam at 8:00 AM. Wonder if they'll be boring or high drama.

Oops, C-Span should be 8:00 PM.

Hello Blue. Was wondering where you had been this week. This thread may cause some people who arrive later to lament the tediousness of it. To remind all that HRC dropped out of the race long ago. Although that does spice up the thread! LOL! I will say that last night while watching tv I saw a McCain ad come across the tv. I am starting to get annoyed by all the political ads, especially those that make no sense. The election is starting bore me. It was more fun when there were more people to talk about. I'm not really looking all that forward to Nov. 4th and it's my birthday on that day!

I understand Hillary has $25 Million in donations that can only be accessed for the General Election. Does she get access if she is the VP candidate on either of the tickets?

Will they be staying with his grandmother?

I remember that there are many hillary supporters who are not satisfied with O's manipulated "win". I see a lot of sulking and petulance, etc from O's supporters as Hillary supporters refuse to just roll over, like people rolled over as bush "won" by stealing it from Gore with the media's connivance (fox), and Kerry "won" because the media crucified Howard Dean..........let the winner carry the roll call at the convention.......That's who "wins".

Funny, my kids are getting an altogether different lesson from this election -

Obama is only the presumptive nominee and there was NOTHING fair and square about it at all. Always think for yourself and don't follow blindly.

Spite has nothing to do with how I will support, democratic values and experience are behind it. Although spite might have something to do with the fact that Hillary has raised 500,000 for Obama, yet he remains to do the same for her as agreed.

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1830119,00.html

Dog, on the advisors, I haven't been keeping close track. But, I was concerned about the military people he started out with. Who's being his gatekeeper in allowing people into the inner circle?

This thing about requiring Mr Edwards to explain himself is interesting:
http://www.kansascity.com/news/politics/story/737028.html

The role of Don Fowler is also significant. I think he was probably the key player (snake in the grass) that enabled the Obama coup at the Rules Committee meeting. Clearly, Fowler is a member of the DNC's ruling junta.

I'm ashamed that he's from South Carolina.

The Obama folks are fond of saying they're bored with conversation about
Hillary. Well, here's a new malady, "Obama Fatigue." I think I'm coming down with it.

"I'm so bored with O-B-A-M-A" an article on Salon.com.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2008/08/07/obama/

Bored with many of you. Same old same old, day in and day out. No forward movement.

cowbird......how would you characterize, and what do you posit as "forward movement", please......if you just want to carp, go to the fish tank.....if you want to provide some "forward movement", then please do so.

FWIW, I don't think stories like Tumulty's in Time help Pres. or Mrs. Clinton very much. Leaves the impression they'd rather exercise their power within the party rather than help remove the GOP from the White House.

--dog eye

I rather doubt Ms Clinton expects much help from the media.

Well, this is an interesting thread! I had not read any news yet today, so I am surprised by the developments.

I am FOR Hillary being officially nominated at the national convention.

And she has earned the right to be the vice-presidential candidate for the Democratic party. Anything less diminishes the importance of the nearly even vote between both candidates.

I dont know.......Dog's post sounded "miffed" "petulant" and riffed with spite to me.......just an observation.......

"The Brown-headed Cowbird (Molothrus ater) is North America's most notorious brood parasite. Instead of building their own nests, incubating their own eggs and raising their own nestlings, Brown-headed Cowbirds have a different breeding strategy. Cowbird females use other bird species as hosts -- laying their eggs in the nests of other bird species and relying on these hosts to incubate and raise their chicks."

Explains a lot doesn't it.

Jack

mornin' all.

Well, after hearing Axelrod on MoJo (after the us beat Japan 1-0 in their preliminary match - way to go, guys) I think the deal is set. He blamed the reporter and did not take humbrage at the Big Dog's failure to give a ringing endorsement to Obama's being qualified to be president. And he would not agree wtih MIka's simplistic assessment that he was dissing Obama because he didn't just say yes.

So Brett Favre's going to the Jets - great bookend to Namath for that franchise. Think he'll fill a few seats? It's the rare franchise that gets two hall of famers at QB.

dog, that's some selective recollection - what big early states that Clinton won do you question her being able to carry in the very unlikely event (ain't gonna happen)she might get the chance to try? NY, OH, MI, PA? Aside from VA, which she didn't win, & FL, which no candidate has a lock on, I don't see any big states east of the Mississippi she wouldn't carry. If there is a candidate who might not be able to win early states he carried in the primary, e.g. GA & SC, it is Obama. And her early strategy was fine - she lost because of a failed strategy re: the middle caucuses. I'll grant you the campaign's money management was poor - but with Penn as one of the people directing how it would be spent, who would that surprise - in retrospect, of course?

Sturg, someone else's feelings are their personal property. I see little point in trying to change how someone else feels. I merely try to state my feelings and my rationale for them.

Flate:
as I said.......just an observation......and I always feel free (as do most other people and the media especially to observate.

close parenthesis after especially

I don't think Namath is in the Hall of Fame.

When professed Democrats start referring to Obama as BHO, there's a big problem. It shows the exact lack of respect that they accuse Obama supporters of showing Hillary.

Florida and Michigan were penalized for moving up their primaries. That's about it. Hillary claims victory in Michigan because she was the only person on the ballot. Haven't we invaded and sanctioned countries for that reason?

Isn't treating Hillary with kid gloves the exact same kind of sexism that her supporters get so mad about? You can fling all sorts of dirt at Obama and he's supposed to smile and shrug it off because he's a man. Say one wrong thing about Hillary and you're sexist. Funny, dat.

Isn't treating Hillary with kid gloves the exact same kind of sexism that her supporters get so mad about?

Kid gloves? faulty premise.

Two points. and you are CIC.

But, we've gone over the say one thing bad about Obama and you are racist. Read the past threads, Paul.

Mean while , just what do the Clintons have to do to enthusiastically support Obama. How much more praise does Bill have to heap on his head before it is enough. How many times does HRC have to campaign for Obama at joint events?

This is getting more than a little stupid, when you compare it to past history of the democratic party.
IMO not allowing HRC's name to be placed into nomination is disrespectful in the extreme and all of her supporters know this.
HRC is bending over backward to accomodate all of Obama's petty demands. She is even willing to not have her name placed in nomination.
It was her supporters who were demanding her just due.

Jack

For the record, I didn't give anybody any money. But, nobody gave me any money either.

Paul, would you rather have BO or BHO? Personally, I find BHO less offensive to others.

How about HST (Harry S Truman). He really didn't have a middle name, just an initial. Go figure.

"Wish he would tour. Patsi: any inside news on that?"

dog -- I don't look for Glen to do any big tours these days. He's still got the talent, but I've heard he gets very tired, very easily.

Have the Clintons Gotten Over It?
Wednesday, Aug. 06, 2008 By KAREN TUMULTY

TIME.COM

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1830119,00.html?imw=Y

"The July 31 cocktail reception outside Palo Alto, Calif., had been billed as an evening for letting bygones be bygones, a coming together of Hillary Clinton's Silicon Valley backers with Barack Obama's to help the New York Senator retire her campaign debt. But as Clinton took questions from the 150 or so people who had paid $500 and up a head to listen, it became clear that the healing process was far from over. "For so many of my supporters, just like so many of Barack's supporters, this was a first-time investment of heart and soul and money and effort and sleepless nights and miles of travel," Clinton said. "You just don't turn it off like that."

O has done and does and will continue to do what it takes to win the nomination.......Hillary should do exactly the same. "Win" is defined as coming out of the convention as the democratic nominee.....and not before.

dont like it? tough noogies.

Maybe it's kinda like when a sports figure announces his retirement and fans start chanting, "ONE MORE YEAR! ONE MORE YEAR!"

What a frickin' joke - seven years of the war on terror and full resources of the U.S. Government results in the war crimes conviction of an OBL limo driver? Great job George.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/07/washington/07gitmo.html?hp

Corey - he is - he was inducted in 1985.

Corey,

I was a die-hard Joe Namath /NYJet fan(today not so much--remain a die-hard NYYankee fan)--so for the record, yes, he is in the NFL Hall of Fame.

Therefore, for some of us, January 12, 1969 was the best super bowl game.

corey - for your perusal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Pro_Football_Hall_of_Fame_inductees

Corey,

Joe Namath was elected to NFL Hall of Fame in 1985.

by the way, glen campbell is far more than just a "country singer" he made big money for years before he ever cut his own record by playing guitar for sessions of such as Sinatra, and Tony Bennet.......by playing for Ricky Nelson and The Beach Boys etc......

"What a frickin' joke - seven years of the war on terror and full resources of the U.S. Government results in the war crimes conviction of an OBL limo driver? Great job George."

I sat here shaking my head at that trial. What a bunch of BS. Yep -- we tracked down the big fish.

dog -- Glen is one of the great talents -- not appreciated enough I think.

perhaps paul, who refers to hrc as "hillary", would prefer sen. obama to be referred to as "barack" to be fair. altho it sounds like he'd prefer the greek symbol "Ω".
"Omega (majuscule: Ω, minuscule: ω; Greek Ωμέγα) is the 24th and last letter of the Greek alphabet. In the Greek numeric system, it has a value of 800. The word literally means "great O" (ō mega, mega
meaning 'great')..." [see wiki for rest].

Wonder if the Obama campaign is getting worried about the monster they unleashed in the internet tubes.
They have kinda lost control of the ability to keep their message out there.
Posted by: whskyjack | August 7, 2008 9:41 AM

Very good point jack......

feeding crumbs to the hungry.....

What do we get with a divided democratic party?

A republican win.

So who is it that really cares about our country more then self ?

It doesn't help the conflict that a salivating media needing headlines will chop, paste, and select out of context the few segments from any statement guaranteed to create the worst impression and then serve up what sounds like "fighting words" to a gullible public with appropriate "Isn't that awful" commentary.

It just never ends

Tennesee Democratic Primary

Race rears it ugly head again.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/capitol-briefing/2008/08/a_nasty_primary_in_tennessee.html?hpid=news-col-blogs

Dog, I don't believe that for a second - she beat Obama in both of those states and had 6 & 4 point polling advantages respectively in the last polls before the primaries in those states and won them by 10 and 9 points. They are both rated as strong Dem by pollster in the current polling for the general, so aside from gut feeling do you base your skepticism on anything?

Coreen, Joe Willy was my man at 'Bama and in NY. I just loved the "We'll win the game. I guarantee you." confidence he showed, then backed it up with a win. Fact known to those Namath lovers like myself (from Wiki) - "The apex of his career was his performance in the Jets' January 1969 win over the Baltimore Colts in the AFL-NFL World Championship Game, now referred to as the Super Bowl. This win would make him the only QB to ever start and win a national championship in college and start and win the Super Bowl. "

Okay, Pogo. I guess I was remembering a discussion on ESPN about the greatest QB's in history and someone saying Namath's career stats really weren't all that good when compared to Montana, Marino, Elway etc....Nothing against Joe, personally.

It appears that in addition to Axelrod's efforts to tamp down any dissension before the Convention, as exhibited by his comments on MOJO, the Clinton & Obama press offices put out a joint statement of unity in response to the ABC report/video from a Clinton fundraiser in CA.

"We are working together to make sure the fall campaign & the convention are a success. At the Dem Convention, we will ensure that the voices of everyone who participated in this historic process are respected and our party will be fully unified heading into the November election."

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0808/Clinton_Obama_reiterate_unity.html

Sadly, Bowman that is a standard way of running a race in a majority black district in many parts of the country. It used to be that way in m y city council district, but the AA candidates are getting smarter and have learned the advantage of inclusiveness. One of our former coucilcritters was very bad about campaigning that way, in the last campaign her name was used as an attack ad by the winning AA candidate. It is so nice to have 2 qualified candidates to chose from and not have to say"oh no not her again"

Jack

paul, my apologies, i left out the "A" in the above reference to "Ω"... are we now pc with referring to the senator as A-Ω?
oops, lightening duck...hmmm, guess somebody else got dibs on the alpha omega label. those copyright laws can be sooo boring.
but seriously, why do you call her "hillary" and not call him "barack"?

"But advisers to the New York senator [HRC] said she will almost certainly not ask to have her name placed in formal nomination at the convention, avoiding a divisive vote on the night Obama is expected to become the Democratic Party's first black presidential nominee."

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/D/DEMOCRATIC_CONVENTION?SITE=CONGRA&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

I hereby reject said advice.....in the face of all the observating by O supporters and the media.

Sturge
You're just being stubborn and contrarian.
Why don't you be a nice, amiable, go along to get along, team player like me?

Jack

oldseahag: If many of her more militant supporters didn't call for the name in nomination in hopes of undoing the primary results, I think you'd see more support for the idea.

dog's eye

You mean if it didnt count in any meaningful way, you'd be fer it.......

lol

Glen Campbell - great musician and singer - despite a pretty squeaky image, he had his demons. Here's more than you want to know.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glen_Campbell

Some of the songs he appeared on should surprise even the biggest die hard Campbell fans out there.

And who would be surprised that at 72 touring would be too tiring for him? Hell, who other than the Stones do we expect to be doing big venue tours at that age? Maybe the Eagles?

Yeah, but...

Jack...............yeah, but..................

wo

A good song for the morning coffee

Gentle On My Mind Glen Campbell

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToRLCh4m3vA

Jack

"Hell, who other than the Stones do we expect to be doing big venue tours at that age?"
j mc, pogo?

and the horse glen rode in on:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fXXkybycsU

One final thought before sleep:

"I ain't never had no fun when I was quiet." - Fred G. Sanford.

This reluctance to open the convention to a genuine political give-and-take process reminds me of what FDR said in his first inaugural, "...the only thing we have to fear is fear itself..."

What in the world does Mr Obama fear about letting the full process work its way?

FDR's speech:
http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5057/

It was clear long ago, Dog........but it doesnt matter what you wish any more than it matters what I wish.....what will be will be......

Dog.......and it seems to me that the antics are from all sides and the demo party is already plenty disrupt as it is.....torn apart, shall we say.........and O's tactics already disgust me completely......as do many of the tactics of his supporters.

She doesn't deserve less opportunity than historically offered to candidates, regardless of her 18 million supporters hopes.

The superdelegates were created to prevent an "unelectable" candidate.as in McGovern's case. Why do all these fine Democrats seem to be bucking the democratic process our Democratic leaders created to prevent a loss in November? It doesn't seem prudent at many levels to avoid following the process in place, neither creating harmony within the party nor ensuring a wiin in the GE, I suggest that it won't be the Hillary supporters who will be responsible if we lose in Nov.

[sturge].....what will be will be......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7jG91sPvf0

If I had any sense, I'd go off and start a blog where everyone who came simply agreed wholeheartedly with whatever I choose to believe.....

Corey - all those guys played 16 game seasons - Joe played 14 game seasons - his career passing record - first player to throw for 4000 yards - for NFL seasons of 14 games stood until the NFL lengthened the season to 16. Dan Fouts beat that record in a 16 game season in 1879. Joe was a great runner in college, but because of the knee injuries and a hamstring injury from water skiing he suffered, he never had the mobility to be a great scrambler in the pros. I was given the book "Namath" for Christmas last year - the back flyleaf has a photo of him as a Jet - passing over a charging line - looks like he's 3 feet in the air.

patd - LOL!!! (They are about the same age, after all - Glen is 4 months older).

Pogo, Now I know why we get along.

My first recollection of my "Broadway Joe" was the New Year's game his Tide played against Texas--white shoes & all (I know they lost)--but that was the beginning of my absolute adulation of Joe Willie Namath.

By the way other than the 1969 Colts victory, the best game for me was the AFL Championship game against the hated Oakland Raiders in New York--a cold, windy December day--that was such sweet revenge. Well, enough reminiscing.

If I were King of the Bloggists:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWFh9Rp1hac

damn, that was easy enough.

"And he would not agree wtih MIka's simplistic assessment that he was dissing Obama because he didn't just say yes."

I wish I had seen Axelrod do this. It would make me think better of him. Virtually every uncut piece I have seen of Sen.or Presient Clinton has called for the election of Sen. Obama as president while calling for a unified party coming out of Denver. Sen. Clinton has not even put in a formal request for her name to be put in nomination.

The meeting in Palo Alto, a guest asked her about a roll call and her response was that they were looking for "some way" for her delegates to feel included and respected.

Out of this the media has built this whole "Clintons are still pissed" meme. Sure their feelings may be hurt over real or imagined slights, but they are Democrats and they are calling for the election of Barack Obama as president of the US. They have opened up their money coffers and she has appeared on his behalf both with and without him.

The media acts as if they should grovel in his presence to prove they really, really mean it. My opinion is that this is more DNC back stabbing to make her look bad so that her supporters will stop demanding that he pick the obviously best possible candidate to run with him as VP. If they can make her look bad enough, then some totally dull yawn of an appointment can be selected without conflict.

In an unusual twist, 30% of the voters from both parties are still saying they will make their decision this year based on the VP appointment.

King of the Ugliness departs in face of Ugliness?

details at eleven..........cant tell the irony without a scorecard.

Was it antics that elected President Roosevelt? He won on the fourth ballot. I guess they believed in democratic conventions then.

doggone it sturg - I can't view youtube stuff - what was that Campbell thing a link to - him in sequins on a lit up horse?

Who's ugly around here?

Sturge? Pogo?

It's not me I'm quite handsome.

Jack

"this was a first-time investment of heart and soul and money" EuroTom 9:30 AM

Good morning. Great thread.
Tom, love that paragraph you quoted. Said it all.
...............................

Obama Pivots to Populism
This turn to populism is not an extreme political makeover. Rather, it's a distinct tonal shift as the Democratic presidential candidate finishes a trip through three swing states -- Michigan, Ohio and Indiana -- where blue-collar voters aren't necessarily on board.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/08/obama_pivots_to_populism.html

Warning!: Only Hillary supporters should read the following. All others will be angered.

Hillary's Growing Shadow
By Victor Davis Hanson
Barack Obama and John McCain are running neck and neck.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/08/hillarys_growing_shadow.html

pogo.....sorry......should have done a blurb......Johnny Hartford doing "gentle on me mind"

coreen, yep - revenge for the Heidi game.

sturg - another wonderful musician - I used to love watching John play banjer while Glen sang his song.

This story won't even touch most voters. Many people are vacationing and getting their families ready for the new school year and enjoying the last days of summer.

They will wait for the convention, see how it goes, and vote in November.

The web certainly has the ability to make a non-story into todays news.

jamie - despite Mika's best efforts (a low bar indeed) to get Axelrod to diss Bill, he said that what he saw was a reporter trying very hard to get Bill to say something negative about Obama - and he didn't think what Bill said was a slight. In my view it showed a bit of class I never saw in Axelrod before.

It's ugly around here? I hadn't noticed. Jack, I'm certain there are folks who's say I'm the one. I'm sure you and sturg cut fine figures. (btw, good work, sturg).

Pogo--revenge for the Laassiter & Davidson's late hits
to his face--concussion, black eye, fractured jaw in '67. Don't let me get started. The Heidi game--diving for a radio as the TV goes off--the culmination of the long standing hatred of the Raiders--therefore most sweet revenge.

Just when you thought it was going to stay civil.......

Stay good all, and have fun watching the olympics opening ceremony..It will be a blast

"..........cant tell the irony without a scorecard."

ROFL!

what about the Kennedy Carter convention ...
didn't Ted have his name put in against a sitting president

..........cant tell the irony without a scorecard."
ROFL! Posted by: Patsi

Patsi, Yes sturge has had me laughing all morning. He's right on the mark today.

Dog

"Gov. Franklin Roosevelt 666.5 677 682 945
Former Gov. Al Smith 201 194 190 190"

This is exactly why so many of the Clinton delegates want a first ballot roll call. It acknowledges all their hard work for their candidate, and demonstrates the viability of the party. Sen. Obama would still win on the first ballot. There would be a call for unanimity and then a big whoop it up celebration. It's called democracy. You are allowed to vote for someone other than the winner and have that vote counted.

Coreen, of course there is a little irony in that Raiders-Jets 68-69 rivalry. Ken "the snake" Stabler - Namath's successor at Bama, was on the sidelines of the Raiders (drafted in '68) although he didn't play in the '68 season or the '69 championship game.

The new Obama energy commercial is great. It's done as bullet point statements of his actions to take and looks very sharp and professional. It makes the McCain commercials look like amateur hour.

1980 Delegate count

The delegate tally at the convention was in part:

Jimmy Carter – 2,129.02
Ted Kennedy– 1,150.48
Hugh Carey – 16
William Proxmire – 10
14 others – 40.5

Suddenly being green is not cool any more
As the credit crunch bites, environmental policies are being ditched. But oddly we are doing better at saving the planet

"Bottled water sales have fallen. Garden centres have reported a 10 per cent rise in the sales of vegetable seeds in the past 12 months. People are saving money by growing their own potatoes and carrots. They are turning off their central heating for a few more months of the year and ditching their second car rather than buying an electric runaround. And instead of carbon-offsetting their holidays, they are simply going on fewer of them.

It's the downturn that has made greenery look unappetising - but it may yet prove to do more than anything to save the planet."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article4474202.ece

Have a good day.

Lets look at this another way. What if the current impasse ends up being more costly for the Clintons? They are basically daring Obama and the Dems to repudiate them. What good comes of that.

Rez

Yeah, but . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . .

via con dios

Jack

"What if the current impasse ends up being more costly for the Clintons?"

What if it doesn't?
Same formula in the end, Obama needs her more than she needs Obama.
Remember her base ain't going anywhere. That was the news contained in yesterdays youtube, btw.

Jack

More Bush economy BS. Jobless claims rise to highest level since 3/02.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/07/business/08econ.html?hp

"A program to locate people eligible for jobless benefits played a role in the increase, a Labor Department analyst said. However, the analyst could not say how much of a role."

Can't say how many people that program located? Now what did I do with the Brooklyn Bridge? It's time to sell it.

In case you get bored during the Convention speeches, here is something for your playtime

http://www.obamapaperdoll.com/

or

http://www.mccainpaperdoll.com/

Includes family members and changes of clothes both casual and formal as worn on the campaign trail.

Jamie

does it have Michelles urban terrorist costume from the New Yorker ?

Saw her on GMA this morning and they have got the lid so clamped down on her that she can't be herself or she is dog tired. I suspect the later as I can't see anyone keeping her contained for long. She is a bit like the Big Dog,Bill in that respect. Time for her to take a break get a couple of weeks rest during the olympics, be ready for the sprint to the end in November.

Jack

jamie, after my last outburst they took all sharp objects away from me - think they have a virtual version?

"Remember her base ain't going anywhere."

only 6 feet under

Bird food
"Jumbo edible sunflower, Safflower,
Grey Striped Sunflower, Whole Corn, Buckwheat, Wheat, Kafir, Whole Oats, Peanuts,
Protein Biscuits, Chili Peppers, Oyster Shells, Banana Chips, Pineapple, Raisins, Pellets, Ground Corn, Soybean meal"

Yep, about what I thought

Jack

There you go in your CIC role whiskyjack. birdfood sounds yummy to me.

"they took all sharp objects away from me - think they have a virtual version?"

Pogo, We told you to stop stabbing folks with the scissors to emphasize your arguments.

I do believe the dolls have perforations ... no cutting required.

Jack

I'm really starting to like Michelle except when they have her so tightly controlled that her smile and sharp wit doesn't come through. She actually has more management experience than her husband. Maybe we could have her run for President in 2016.

I have a sneaking suspicion that if she and Hillary could kick back and hit the wine bottle, they would have a great time together.

Rednecks and Obama

an interesting read

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article4428685.ece

Jack

Jamie

She one of those strong women types that have held the AA comunity together through all of their troubles. Very impressive in her own right.

Jack

This maybe too intense for some people

Cowbird Courtship
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2HGVPR8gvk

Jack:-P

jack chirps back

waiter, check please.
Time to get out of here.

Those were Eduardo and Clarabell. During their celibate phase. They're raising a brood now. Hands full. At least they didn't have to build their own nest.

The Bradley Effect: From a Zogby.com article:
Political scientists estimated the Bradley effect or lie factor at close to seven percent; others place it slightly lower, but it has been the bane of African American candidates for a long time.

http://www.zogby.com/Soundbites/ReadClips.dbm?ID=18035

must stop stabbing...must stop stabbing.

OK, Obama isn't concerned about the evil Clintons tearing theparty apart.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CLINTON_OBAMA?SITE=CONGRA&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Why shouldn't his followers listen to him and relax?

Obama Losing Steadily to McCain On Issues of “Trust”

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/08/07/obama-losing-steadily-to-mccain-on-issues-of-trust/

"Obama told reporters on his campaign plane that he talked separately this week to Clinton and her husband, the former president, and that they were enthusiastic about having a smooth convention at the end of the month in Denver."

Pogo, No matter how the networks slice, dice, insert and paste the remarks on that interview with Pres. Clinton or Sen. Clinton answering a question, I think I'll take Sen. Obama's word that he has spoken to them since and everything is just fine.

Now if the DNC really wanted to cause some excitement, they could hold a vote on the VP slot for the first time in 24 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_Democratic_National_Convention#Vice-President

In the vice presidential roll call, Mondale was re-nominated with 2,428.7 votes to 723.3 not voting and 179 scattering. This was the last time during the 20th century that the Democratic Party had a roll call for the Vice Presidential spot

Pogo

I don't think it is his followers as much as it is a few who hate the Clintons and the magnification done by the media.

But it is smart of the Obama campaign to be on top of it imo

Jack

re Dems heading for Denver or Abilene this August?

"But during the primaries reasonable thinkers among the leadership knew that Obama was unelectable. He had zero executive experience and a history of embarrassingly extreme leftwing associations and ideas. Yet they were cowed, against their inner judgment, by a coalition of the media, the Soros club financiers, the idealistic youth, the Clinton averse, the new racialists, and the professoriate to make a choice that had little to do with winning.

Though Obama is still the darling of the drive-bys, his gaffes, reversals, straddles and threats to strangle the economy is registering with the voters. He is a loser.

But what if a crack forms and Obama misses on the first ballot in Denver? When a hollow Abilene consensus begins to fracture, a high velocity implosion will follow."

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/08/are_dems_heading_for_denver_or.html

reagan had no foreign policy experience. So, who won the Cold War?

FDR had no foreign policy experience, yet he won WWII despite all the nazis* in the republican party.

Wilson had no foreign policy experience, yet he won WWI.

republicans have 8 years of experience, led by the Secretary of Defense and Vice President, who also botched Gulf War I. The republican experience in foeign policy amounts to bungling the worldwide struggle against terrorism, mounting the fiasco in Iraq, and blundering in Afghanistan.

The republican experience is all BAD. Clearly NO experience is preferable to another republican mess. The republican foreign policy is, "Throw good after the bad."

It's time for a fresh idea, and a fresh start.

Abilene?
wtf does that mean Gordo?

Everybody going to get lost when they stop and admire Eisenhower
on the way to denver?

Jack

jack, great link to that book by Joe Bageant. This may be one of the best descriptions of what I see around me in WV.

"That evening, Joe brings out the bourbon and we talk late into the night about Obama and his problems with rednecks. “It’s not so much that we cling to guns and religion, but guns and religion cling to us as a matter of culture,” he says. “They are just embedded in our lives.”

Are rednecks really bitter, as Obama suggests? Joe pauses. “You’re goddamned right we’re bitter,” he says fiercely. But then he softens. “It’s a kind of inchoate anger that nobody knows what to do with. Nobody knows its name or face.” He thinks Obama is full of “liberal bullshit”, which will hurt him in redneck country far more than his race. Part of the reason rednecks voted for Bush was “he looks as dumb as we feel… When you see a president who looks aw-shucksy about everything, you kinda like that around here.” "

I'm gonna have to get that book.

So, who won the Cold War?

Truman

Jack

GORDO,

mccain is the road to Abilene. Hardly anyone wants to go where mccain is heading. However, if you want to go to Abilene, fine. This is what it will look like: another defeat against another small enemy, another financial disaster because republicans hate regulation, another Katrina, another offloading of the tax burden onto county property taxes, another attempt to end Social Security Insurance. Thanks, GORDO, but no thanks.

I know that many of the Kucinich supporters are now Obama supporters. This blurb about the way the DNC treated the Kucinich delegates in 2004 may be of interest.

------------------------------------

"In the days before the convention started, the other candidates withdrew, "freed" their delegates and officially endorsed Kerry.[citation needed] All the delegates voted to ratify this decision and vote for Kerry, except those of Kucinich, who attempted to vote for Kucinich anyway. Many states refused to let them do so, and only permitted them to register abstentions.[citation needed] The final tally went thus:

Democratic National Convention presidential vote, 2004[9]
Candidate Votes Percentage
John Kerry 4,253 98.40%
Dennis Kucinich 43 0.99%
Abstain 26 0.60%

------------------------------------------------------

Kucinich with actual votes and abstensions got only a little over 1% of the vote, but even he got a roll call.

LOL at the Abilene consensus reference- I'll admit to having no idea what that was.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abilene_paradox

McCain Clobbers Obama on YouTube

"Obama’s popularity peaked in February, and tanked through June. It experienced a brief resurgence with the flurry of activity surrounding Clinton suspending (but not ending) her campaign in early June, then collapsed back into its nadir again.

This is not good news for a candidate who built his whole campaign on flash and sizzle: without any substance there, the mega-celebrity candidate only stays aloft as long as his rabid followers keep his enthusiasm up. "

http://hillbuzz.wordpress.com/2008/08/07/mccain-clobbers-obama-on-youtube/

"which word best describes the woman who threatens to screw up the most important election i've seen in 62 years of life?

self-centered?
selfish?
evil?
maniacal?"

jp,shame on you!
Those are despicable things to say about Donna Brazile!

Pogo

I agree.

That paragraph could be a discription of my mostly out of work BIL. People like him just want a job and a chance.

Jack

Jay Carney of Time thinks Obama should pick Hegel. Wonder what he has been smoking today? Come to think of it that whole interview with Andrea Mitchell makes you wonder about the staffing and programming decisions at MSNBC. :-)

Either they have both recently had lobotomies or the network tells them what to say and they pick up their big paychecks while saying, "Yes, Sir"

Jack, this is a little off the mark re: your 1:28 commemt, but it's in the ballpark and it's humorous - at least to me. Tom Petty tells the story about being the opening act for a Bruce Springsteen concert. He was warned that if he thought he heard the crowd booing, they were not booing him - they woud be saying "Bruuuuuce" in anticipation of him performing. Petty replie, "What's the difference?"

sturg, if you're lurking - I just found out that Felix Cavaliere's Rascals (used to be the Young Rascals for all you old hippie types) is playing at the Italian Heritage Festival here over the Labor Day weekend. Guess I'll let LP go to hear some of my old favorites - "You Better Run" was one of their best IMO - it's outside, free, and aside from the local drunks and imports, is pretty tame- even for an 11 year old.

Jamie
I would say its the water. But in Carneys place I think he is practicing to be the David Broder replacement. You know, whine at the democrats(it's never the Republicans for some reason) for screaming when they get kicked in the balls.
~~~~~~~~~Why can't we all just get along~~~~~~

Jack

Jack,

Of course, you are absolutely right. Truman adopted containment as the policy, and that made him extremely unpopular in 1952. In his campaign, Eisenhower pretended he would win the war: "If I am elected, I will go to Korea ! " That made many people think he would direct a WWII-style, US led, UN defeat of north Korea and red China. However, once elected, Ike settled for containment. Every later president, including reagan kept the Truman policy in place. In Korea, even babybush maintains the containment policy Sens. Taft and Joe McCarthy called 'defeatist.'

republican's like to claim that reagan's profligate arms race won the Cold War. I think that was a part of it. For the sake of pro-Obama rhetoric, I temporarily cede their point, but merely to skewer mccain's preposterous pose as experienced in foreign affairs. That dope doesn't even know that Iran fought the taliban and al qaeda in Afghanistan on our side ! Or that the taliban and al qaeda murdered tens of thousands of Shi'ites in Afghanistan.

For anyone who thinks babybush is terrible, never doubt that a mccain presidency will make you nostalgic for the babybush "good old days."

HOW TO TWIST THE NEWS AND CREATE A PHONY ISSUE WITHOUT LYING

Andrea Mitchell speaking to Capeheart empahsizes that division exists between Obama and Clinton about how to work out their differences. This based on his telling reporters and plane about the conversations. The whole report downbeat and indicating a severe rift.

Actual statement by Obama:

As is true in all conventions, we're still working out the mechanics, the coordination," Obama said.

Pogo
Thanks for clearing up the Abiline thing.

Jack

jamie, I've quit wondering - and have just about quit watching.

Jack, happy to do it since I had to look it up to find out what the hell it was.:-) I likes to learn me some stuff sometimes.

"The Road to Abilene" is a film used in organizational training. In it, no one in the family (including Dad) wants to go to Abilene, but when Dad suggests it, they all get in the car, thinking everyone else wants to go. The entire trip is unpleasant, Abilene is terrible, and they all come home grumpy.

GORDO's intimation is that Obama is the road to Abilene. I maintain that mccain IS Abilene.

"Why should Hillary Clinton's delegates be treated any differently than the delegates for ALL of the previous Democratic Conventions?

There have only been 4 conventions since 1832 when the nominee was decided by "Acclamation" instead of a ballot - and ALL FOUR were Incumbents (FDR, Lyndon B. Johnson, Bill Clinton, and Al Gore).

Hillary Clinton is doing what all of her predecessors have done - that's what a candidate does! Barack Obama is still a candidate, albeit the presumptive nominee, but he is NOT an incumbent.

Frankly, if he can't face the same challenges that all other non-incumbent Democratic nominees have had to face, how on earth will the Democratic Party be able to beat John McCain?

Seriously, Obama supporters, you need to think about this."
via dailykos at ABCnews.com

Careful Pogo

All that thar book larnin' can make you grouchy.

xr, if you're looking for an argument, you'll just have to look somewhere else. (Of course the possibility exists that you and Gordo are both right).

"policy Sens. Taft and Joe McCarthy called 'defeatist"

I think something that needs to be repeated many times for future generations is the Neocon policies are drawn straight from those loosing ideas of 50s conservative republicans. Not from Reagan.

Jack

oh yeah? says who?

"GORDO's intimation is that Obama is the road to Abilene."
xr, gordo didn't intimate anything. paul berkowitz said it flat out. gordo just provided us with a link. i for one appreciate finding out what the outre crowd are saying.
and anyway "its better to have your enemies inside your tent pissing out, rather than have them outside your tent pissing in" as good ole lbj would say.

George Hamilton IV - Abilene

"Women there don't treat you mean"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NslWxIJ0oxM

Jack

"its better to have your enemies inside your tent pissing out, rather than have them outside your tent pissing in" as good ole lbj would say.

LOL

Words of wisdom from a political master.

Jack

Every candidate with even one delegate should be allowed to place his or her name in nomination. Each delegate faithfully supported their candidate and worked hard to get that candidate elected. They spent their time and money to get that candidate votes in their state whether by caucus or primary. Then that delegate had to be chosen by their state to represent that candidate at the national convention. It is an honor to be a delegate and each one of them wants to cast their vote for their candidate whether that candidate is going to be the nominee or not and they have pledged to vote for that candidate on the first ballot.

That is the way it has been done in the past. Ted Kennedy, Shirley Chisholm , Jesse Jackson, Scoop Jackson. The list is too long to publish. This has been done for many reasons, some for historical significance and some just so that a state can nominate a favorite son. (notice I said favorite son rather than favorite daughter).

This year we have two firsts, a woman and an African American have battled out for the nomination to the last primary. Neither candidate got the majority of elected delegates but the African American has enough pledges from the super delegates to get the nomination. Somewhere between 40 to 49% of the delegates to that convention have been elected or pledged to vote for the woman candidate. Regardless of which won got the most delegates, it was an historical primary season and those delegates who worked so hard to get there should be allowed the honor and curtesy to cast their vote. This would be true no matter which candidate had the lead or was the presumptive nominee.

The votes won't change. Those elected delegates are committed and they will vote that committment. The super delegates who have declared will not change their votes and therefore the outcome is quite predictable. What will cause a problem at the convention will be the perception by this same almost majority that they and their candidate are being dismissed. That all of their hard work is being discounted and the one thing that they wanted to do as a delegate which was to cast a vote for their candidate is being taken away so that the candidate they did not support can make it look like a coronation rather than an election convention.

If you want the story out of Denver to be how upset almost 1/2 of the delegates are with the nominee and the party then just keep them from casting their vote that they worked so hard to attain.

First Lincoln Team of Rivals, now LBJ musing on directional pissing. How many more hints does Obama need before he names Clinton VP? :-)

jack, there are certainly conflicting views of who won the cold war, including the view that no one won it, but that the USSR collapsed of its own accord - having expanded beyond its capability to control its holdings (e.g.the Asian republics and Eastern European captive states) and continue a military buildup in competition with the US without having an economy that competed on the world stage to generate income from foreign sources. Gorby tried to convert the Russian economy to a consumer based one, but was unsuccessful for many reasons. Reagan certainly helped hasten its collapse through the continuation of the arms race - that startedunder Truman (along with a policy of containment as you aptly pointed out), but that isn't something he started as much as he inherited it, and aside from the Hannitys of the world and the neocons that buy that line of bull, few people really believe he won the cold war. I think Reagan was fortunate to be president when it collapsed as much as anything.

all that directional pissing potentially blowin in the wind into or out from the denver arena ...brought this to mind for the theme of the day:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4nPJ-YYHBc

patd - i can't open you tube here, but I hope that's a vid of Jerry Jeff Walker doing "Pissi' In the Wind."

OMG - this may be one of Gail Collins' best columns.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/07/opinion/07collins.html?hp

uhh, that would be "Pissin'"

The Clintons are so dysfunctional. They couldn't run a campaign. They couldn't spend money efficiently. Now, she can't even figure out a way to not have her supporters sabotage her political future. If any of her "supporters" disrupt the Democratic convention, her future as a national Democratic figure is over.

Do you really think HRC has forgotten these words?

MICHELLE OBAMA: "One of the things, the important aspects of this race is role modeling what good families should look like. And my view is that if you can't run your own house, you certainly can't run the White House."

Now who do you think Michelle had in mind when she said those words, and not when she was given a few days with her handlers to come up with a plausible explanation.

Michelle Obama's own words:

"Don't go into corporate America. You know, become teachers. Work for the community. Be social workers. Be a nurse. Those are the careers that we need, and we're encouraging our young people to do that. But if you make that choice, as we did, to move out of the money-making industry into the helping industry, then your salaries respond."

Yes don't pursue your dreams, pursue my agendas. Yes I have to agree that is certainly "change".

"Kucinich with actual votes and abstensions got only a little over 1% of the vote, but even he got a roll call.'

Good call, Jamie. But the O-team doesn't want to take a chance. Whatta bunch of thugs.

"Posted by: chezmadame | August 7, 2008 1:48 PM"

OMG! Yer killin' me. YES!

Gee, Fry, I wonder. And I see the Bash Hillary Express has pulled into the station.

*returns to reading his newspaper*

"High-Ranking McCain Campaign Officials Were Paid Lobbyists For Hess"

OMG! Is that old Nazi still around?????

"This year we have two firsts, a woman and an African American have battled out for the nomination to the last primary. Neither candidate got the majority of elected delegates but the African American has enough pledges from the super delegates to get the nomination. "

Yes indeed. And according to the DNC, the woman candidate was a nonentity. She can just kiss this man's ass.

jo, meet chezmadame; chezmadame, meet jo. I think you two will have much in common to discuss. And how dare you bring up history of the Dem party convention to suggest that its past practices should not be changed to suit the purposes of the presumptive nominee and his acolytes?

"might be too subtle a point for some.

dog's tutorial on thugs:"

ROFL -- like you say, links please -- to your educational and professional qualifications for this "tutorial."

The Michelle Obama version of, do as I say, not as I do.

"In 2006, the Chicago Tribune reported that Mrs. Obama's compensation at the University of Chicago Hospital, where she is a vice president for community affairs, jumped from $121,910 in 2004, just before her husband was elected to the Senate, to $316,962 in 2005, just after he took office. And that does not count the money Mrs. Obama receives from serving on corporate boards."

Sound like what a social worker gets paid, now doesn't it?

"A bit personal."

Oh...Jeez, should I start quivering now? I've been called names by someone I wouldn't speak to in the street!

lol@Patsi.

That's a pretty good come back. I like that one, have to write that one down for future use.

Driver sentenced to 66 months in jail. Since he gets 5 years credit for time served. This could means he goes free in six months except the military could still hold him as an "enemy combatant". Appeals all the way around for a man who was just convicted of driving a car.

Fry, in fairness, Michelle Obama changed postions in May, 2005 from Executive Director for community affairs to Vice President for community and external affairs - which I imagine was more than just a change in title. I've known people in the health care world who were certainly not as qualified to hold VP positions that they held as she appears to be. Her promotion was 4 months after Barack was sworn in as US Senator.

Jamie,

Just think if BHO gets elected, OBL's driver can most likely get a job driving a taxi in NYC.

If McCain wins in Nov., it will be because of stuff like this - not because the Dems do or do not have a rollcall vote at the convention.

"McCain told those gathered for a town hall meeting that Obama is a talented orator with an agenda that could be boiled down to simple policies the Arizona Republican opposes.

''Government is too big, he wants to grow it. Taxes are to high, he wants to raise them,'' McCain said. ''Congress spends too much and he proposes more. We need more energy and he's against producing it. We're finally winning in Iraq, and he wants to forfeit.''"

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/washington/AP-McCain-DHL.html

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/08/obamas-costly-clinton-problem.html#comment-125413

Fry, you've outdone yourself. LOL

Well pogo. Why didn't Michelle become a social worker or a nurse like she is wanting other to do?

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/08/07/hamdan.trial/index.html

Here's CNN on the Hamdan sentencing verdict.

FD

That was really unnecessary. It sounds as if you are buying in to the whole Obama Muslim connection?

Unless you are saying that the driver would be release here because there is no country where he could be sent without being tortured?

Fry, I guess she sees her calling as a high paid healthcare executive rather than an underpaid nurse or social worker as her sacrifice for the sick and injured. ~~~ (just in case you thought I was defending her).

IMHO, Hamdan's sentence was a rebuke to the prosecution - it gave him the same sentence a 3rd offense DUI defendant would have gotten (after credit for time served is granted). And where would a Yemeni who had moved his family to Pakistan before going to work for a Saudi terrorist go after being convicted in Cuba on US territory there of materially aiding terrorism? I have no idea. I wonder if he seaks Spanish?

Clinton will totally, totally embarrass herself at the convention and probably cause some harm in the way her peers see her in the Senate and elsewhere. It may even make a difference in her upcoming re-election. Oh, she will have these half-baked, clueless females shouting to the ceiling for her, but it will be to no avail. They don’t give a damn about the country. Most intelligent ones have moved on. As for Billo, he’s probably meat already after his stupid comments this past week. Let’s hope Obama sends him someplace in Africa as an ambassador where he can “get what he really wants”. Billo and his insecurities! Never was a president in history with so many insecurities!!!!

Hilliary’s “base” has shrunk. They have a clue! Some of you don’t.

BTW, haven’t read any of the responses above and don’t intend to do so. Look at this people. It’s just the media hype and they love it. That’s what they are about! You included, Craig. Besides, even though they say you don’t vote, you are from the south and probably want the old crinkly white haired man to win anyway. Now, I have social functions to attend!. Bye Bye.

Pogo

I'm with you that even with a military tribunal, the administration couldn't produce enough trumped up or torturned evidence against the guy to warrant keeping him locked down in Cuba.

jamie - continued retentionin Gitmo after the 6 months eleapses doesn't seem likely.

""Hamdan is now considered a convicted war criminal and is no longer considered an enemy combatant and will be held separately from the other detainees at Guantanamo because of his new status.

"The decision by the jury will now go through a number of reviews as provided by the rules and regulations of the commission."
Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman"

"Hamdan is now considered a convicted war criminal and is no longer considered an enemy combatant and will be held separately from the other detainees at Guantanamo because of his new status.

"The decision by the jury will now go through a number of reviews as provided by the rules and regulations of the commission."
Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman

"Hamdan is now considered a convicted war criminal and is no longer considered an enemy combatant and will be held separately from the other detainees at Guantanamo because of his new status.

"The decision by the jury will now go through a number of reviews as provided by the rules and regulations of the commission."
Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/08/06/hamdan.reacts/index.html

don't know how in the hell that happened - it didn't look like that when I submitted it.

stingy bitter supporters who bitch 24/7

who wants em?

hmmm am having problems with signing in again .. had to hit the anonymouusly button to get the Comment box to come up .. anyone have an idea how to fix that?

!:^(
viv

p.s. the Captcha is hard to read when ya got eye problems ..

it's hard to read whether you have eye problems onr not, viv.

It was about 8 hours ago when someone, I think Pogo, said that the Jets getting Favre gives them the distinction of having two hall of fame caliber quarterbacks. If my quick check of the HoF roster is correct, there are 15 current teams, who have had at least two QBs who eventually were voted in.

Cowboys, Redskins, Steelers, Lions, Chiefs, Bears, Chargers (Fouts & Unitas), Giants, Browns, Dolphins, Eagles, 49ers, Packers, Colts & Rams.

Damn, Ed, great research.

I'm a middle-aged woman who would have backed Hillary Clinton's candidacy if this election was being held at another time. I fully understand that she had her sights on the Democratic nomination for many years and really thought this was her time to be the next POTUS. I empathize that despite the great fight, she didn't quite make it; I really do. It must have been like a punch in the stomach that more Americans chose to back the upstart, Barack Obama instead of her. I'm one of those Americans who chose to do so because I think he is the answer to our country's problems and feel that way even more right now, because our economy has tanked.

That said, I feel Sen Obama has bent over backwards to smooth the tensions with Hillary and Bill that built up over the long Primary. We all know that Obama is helping to pay off Hillary's campaign debt. I'm also sure Obama is acquiescing to other points in order to make her and Bill more comfortable with his Nomination and we also know that, if the roles were reversed, she would NEVER entertain the thought of helping Obama.

So I need to ask: How many "bargaining chips" does this woman need?

Granted, she IS a former First Lady and as such, she certainly does deserve respect. Not only for that, but also for her historic Primary campaign, which almost broke the womens' glass ceiling. I respect her greatly and know she can go down in history for all her accomplishments to this point and those she may do in the future. But now, she's tossing into the mix the idea that she wants her delegates to get that love too and I think it will be a big mistake. It's bad enough she's even discussing it publicly, but if she goes behind the scenes and really does go through with having her name placed in nomination at the Democratic Convention, she will certainly NOT be a cause for UNITY. She will have succeeded in doing two things: One, reinforcing the idea that she is a sore loser, and second, she will have resurrected all the animus that almost divided the Democratic Party during the Primaries. She will also, IMHO, succeed in not just doing that, but she will have also rung the death knell for her future ambitions.

I sincerely hope that her advisers can dissuade her from taking this step. Otherwise the legacy she leaves for future generations, will be viewed as a divisive personality, who brought her Party down, in lieu of helping her Country elect the better candidate. Is that really how she'd like to be remembered?

"Half-baked clueless females"

ROFL -- this, from such a Rhodes Scholar!

Ed - According to the Hall's website - 7 pre modern era QBs and 23 modern era QBs are inductees. I assume that since only 30 QBs have been inducted, all teams that QBs like Namath, who was both a Jet and a Ram, played for are credited with them?

"Now, I have social functions to attend!."

One more time -- ROFL!

To you calling yourself, Mrs. Peel -- don't disrespect Emma like that.

You be nice to my name too, you hear?

"We all know that Obama is helping to pay off Hillary's campaign debt...... and we also know that, if the roles were reversed, she would NEVER entertain the thought of helping Obama."
mrs. peel (or is that mr. speel?) i am curious as to the equity argument here. just how much money exactly "since you all know" has senator obama brought in for her? last i heard she's brought in at least $500,000 for him and has done and is doing some speaking engagements on his behalf.

, I have a moral obligation to contribute--something I've done several times as my circumstance permits.

Posted by: Flatus | August 7, 2008 9:13 AM

Flatus: I have too, but since I'm on a limited income, they've not been large amounts .. I see what I can spare at the beginning of the month & send her some ... I figure every dollar helps !:^}

===========================================

Isn't treating Hillary with kid gloves the exact same kind of sexism that her supporters get so mad about? You can fling all sorts of dirt at Obama and he's supposed to smile and shrug it off because he's a man. Say one wrong thing about Hillary and you're sexist. Funny, dat.

Posted by: Paul | August 7, 2008 9:23 AM
HUH?? kid gloves???? what planet have you been on this last year??? NO ONE has treated Hillary or Bill with kid gloves or Respect either ... That's what turned my daughter off BHO .. she was leaning towards him until they started all that racist crap!! and then there's how his supporters were on College Campus ...

Wanna bet tomorrow's NYDN editorial won't be so complimentary of the Gitmo process?

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2008/08/07/2008-08-07_guilty_as_sin.html

For folks who are so tired of hearing about Clinton, some of you spend an awful lot of time talking about her. As for me, I've heard enough disparagement of Clinton for today - LP wants me to play golf with him, so I think I will.

Uh, because you guys can't quit her.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/08/obamas-costly-clinton-problem.html#comment-125433
Mrspeel: if you are who you say you are, then you should remember that placing Hillary''s name in Nomination is the right thing to do .. All the past Conventions have done it, so why shouldn't hers be done also!! And stop with all these dividing crap, BHO & his supportes have done that all along ... UNless!?! BHO is afraid of what might happen .. hmmmm, yep that must be way ...

Viv, you need to think about beautiful rainbows and romantic sunsets.

Viv

"Isn't treating Hillary with kid gloves the exact same kind of sexism that her supporters get so mad about? "

How is asking for a first ballot roll call that has been present at every single convention up to this year being treated with kid gloves?

This isn't some communist state when the "Dear Leader" is always elected by 100% of the blissfully happy people!

Pogo, this is what I was talking about:

Namath: 173 career TDs, 220 career Ints.

MD.......(20/20)........not "cant quit her"......wont quit her.

Not until your O-man wins the nomination at the convention.

No like? Tough.

I'm starting to worry about a Democratic party that seems to have such a major problem with the Democratic process.

another ahole with a silly prediction of doom for hillary........how many have we had today? Yet you rail against the "tedium" of it all.......lol

Here's a prediction for you: Obama loses at the convention and goes down in history as an also-ran.

goes down in history because Michelle said he couldnt run again if he lost this one......

lol

In the original fable by Aesop "The Fox and the Grapes", when the fox realizes that he cannot jump hight enough to reach the grapes, he rationalizes that even if he had got them, they probably would have been sour anyway. Rationalization. That's all sour grapes mean. It doesn't deal with jealousy or sore losing." - George Carlin

Can't quit her, won't quit her? What does it matter? It's not tough for us. My candidate won. Your candidate lost. No skin off of me. Hey, WWMPD? (What would MARK PENN do)

MD.......your candidate has not won yet.

My candidate has not lost yet.

If it's no skin, and not tough........then why are you always on this blog whining about it?

Hmmm?

It's not Mark Penn you have to worry about now.

"Wanna bet tomorrow's NYDN editorial won't be so complimentary of the Gitmo process?"

No bet.
When I saw the verdict yesterday my first thought was good job. I think we can be proud of our officer corp.

I was very suprised at the 5 year sentence. I thought it would be more. This sends a great message to the world. Now I hope the Bush admin doesn't screw it up.

Wait a min. , never mind, what was I thinking, Its the Bush administration. Sure they will f*** it up.

Jack

Jack this is the better version of Abilene by George Hamilton IV

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bRRsYGSbXQ

Good question, Sturge.

The Kansas city Chiefs have had 3 hall of fame QBs
The original and only real chief, Len Dawson. They have also helped lenthen the carriers of Joe Montana and Warren Moon.

Jack

I don't see this as such a big deal. It'll be a roll call... Hillary will thank her supporters and publicly ask that all her delegate votes be given to Barack Obama.

Of course Mr. Barack's discounting of Hillary as a running mate makes the unity desire more difficult to achieve, not for everyone, but certainly for a significant number of Hillary supporters.

I am worried that the attacks by McInsane and Co are starting to redefine Obama is the most unflattering ways. He needs people like Hillary who REALLY knows how to fight the Republican HATE machine.

Sturge
As he still has his testicles, I'm assuming she doesn't know about it.

Jack

Im sorry........I said "creep" when I meant to say "vindictive and vicious little spoiled brat jerk."

"Andrew Sullivan’s Take Back the Campaign video contest"

Sullivan has been a weenie carrying water for conservatives for years. Why would ANYONE read his crap?

Euro.....they dont want hillary......they can do it all themselves........f them and the shetland ponies they rode in on.

Tom
That is a twofer abiline, I don't think I've ever heard the second one.
Thanks

Jack

When are gonna start this new blog, Sturge? Will comments be allowed when you do?

corey........ha ha there's too many damn blogs as it is........

besides petty and tedious creeps would just show up from all over to dump their garbage.

Jack, that's the original 45 rpm release of Abilene :)

Sturge, a friend of mine has a blog, but she doesn't allow comments. I think she likes the fact she post whatever she wants and doesn't have to deal with people disagreeing with what she posts. In other news, I just saw Sting perform "When We Dance" on tv. Love that song.

Dog......honest........I hope that my wishes will not be confused by you as being hillary's wishes......but I wish she'd be named nominee at the convention.

Mostly just to see y'all squirm.

Acting like which kind of Democrats?

McCarthy Democrats? Jackson Democrats? Udall Democrats? Kennedy Democrats? Hart Democrats? Jackson Democrats? Brown Democrats? Kucinich Democrats?

They all voted for their "losing" candidate in convention roll calls.

corey........sounds like a good idea.......hope craig doesnt do it though..........lol

Yep.......O supporters are really starting to gripe my ass.

well......not all O supporters.......just the ones who come onto this blog to spout garbage.....and predictions of doom for a really first class woman and her husband who have only been the most successful democrats around lately.

O successful? so far, so good.......but it is. not. over. yet.

No like? Tough.

and Dog.....I dont think you spout garbage and I havent seen you do the dire predictions of Hillary's winding up on trash heaps.........by the way.......youre at least polite in your support, though your points do contain a bit of snark at times, which we all do.........

This always makes me feel better, Sturge:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGd6nNPyeaw

corey.......one can never ever go wrong with Randy......he's the best there is...........

That's the spirit sturgeone, give them a "taste of the Chrome."

Make sure you are driving a big old Pontiac or Buick when you do it.

Sturge, we have to listen to your Hillary garbage all day, so we like to respond. But that's okay. She has 18 days in the light. Then she'll take her seat back in the Senate where she can pontificate about whatever the hell she wants to pontificate on.

You Clintonites are pitiful. Let me make it plain. She lost. You lost. She lost. You lost.

We won. I won. We won. I won.

There. Make you feel better.

Just a Thought: Hillary's delegated being able to call her name into nomination could complicate Barack's VP announcement plans. If too many question his choice announced prior to the Convention -- as always, subject to the Polls at the time -- she just might get too many votes.

On some other blogs I visit, the latest blog is on top. Which is better?

MD.......awww, poor baby........tantrum time? Now unball your little fisties and ask your mummie to make you some oatmeal.........

these little brats do love to pontificate, now dont they.....more cretinous advice for hillary and yet another tedious prediction?

geez.......go get a life, kid

I think we would all be better served if we could all be a bit more mature in the discussion. There is a lot of common ground out there among the Democratic voters, and some issues that still divide us. We discussion seems to go nowhere perhaps agreeing to disagree is the best solution.

I am voting for Barack Obama.

I want to vote for Hillary Clinton

I'd be delighted if they were running mates, but I will still vote for the nominee, who I am pretty sure IS Barack Obama.

Mr. D, the nyah nyah nyah post I doubt made anyone but yourself feel better. I hope you will reconsider that approach in the future.

Good night all... it's late and I need sleep.

They won MD, so what do you do in the middle of a campaign for president? VACATION!

That's right folks time to jet off to a Hawaiian vacation.

Excellent strategy to make sure you are in tune with the working class who not only will never get to go to paradise, but are working their ass off just to fill their gas tanks.

I can't wait to see the next You Tube video McCain puts up.

Maybe they can use the theme song from Hawaii 5-0. That would be great.

Hawaii Blues indeed!

WTH's the matter with the Clintons?

They BOTH need to STFU and let us get on with this.

Getting rid of McBush is much more important at this time in history.

Geeze..............

tt

"We won. I won. We won. I won. There. Make you feel better. "

Mr. D. See all the "second place or lower" Democrats listed above who had their delegates counted at conventions over the last three decades. It isn't about "win" or "lose". It is about thanking in some way the loyal people who worked for their candidates and giving them their moment to declare that allegiance before they move on to supporting the party nominee.

Honestly, the way Obama supporters are acting, you would think that there has never been anything but nomination by aclimation. It's called a convention not a coronation.

wow
been away for a few days dealing with computer death and a massive crime wave in my neighborhood 12 day light burglaries since 7/16 and I see the War of the Worlds has broken out again....

if you are looking for something else to think about...please sign this petition in support of a stronger FDA food tracing system:
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/food-safety

I still say if Obama had showed just a little bit of respect for the presidency of Bill Clinton-things could have been different. This racist tag also was certainly not discouraged by Obama. But I still think the Clintons in the end will rise above their grievances and act out their roles at the convention as requested.

"Getting rid of McBush is much more important at this time in history."

Wasn't something similar said by Lenin about the Tzar? Mr. & Mrs. Clinton welcome to Ekaterinburg.

Patsi & pogo,

sorry I'm late getting back to you.

Abilene = mccain, and we are all free to criticize the party or national leadership.

I have no problem with either of your opinions. I don't know what either of you meant. If I wanted to pick a fight it would be with truemax or vj macchiavelli.

Gotta feed Sweetie now.

"And they will pay for it."

LOL

What a joke.
Who is going to make them pay.
Hell Richardson is already realising how badly he screwed up and is throwing a fund raiser trying to get back in the club.

As I said HRC doesn't need Obama , at all.
She can walk away and still is the most powerful individual in the party.

Jack

"Wait a min. , never mind, what was I thinking, Its the Bush administration. Sure they will f*** it up."

They've already released a statement saying that they will not release anyone they still consider a terrorist and a danger to America.

So now we will be guilty of incarcerating someone who has served their full sentence.

OK peeps - after spending a month down in Costa Rica surfing and reminding myself what life is really about it is time to get back into the game....

1. Celebrity

Gimme a freaking break! So it is somehow a bad thing that the majority of Americans are taking an interest in Barack Obama and the political process instead of paying attention to the exploits of those in Hollywood which consumed much of our energy before this historic race...

Leave it to the Republicans to seize upon an emotional issue to try to get Americans to focus on BS instead of the Economy and Iraq.

Obama excelled in his foreign trip. I saw his press conference with Sarkozy and was very impressed. And how refreshing it was to see 200,000 Europeans waving American flags and filled with hope that America can return to its rightful role as the international leader instead of people burning effigies of George W. Bush in the streets and hoping for our demise.

Apparently Obama's trip made him arrogant in the eyes of Republicans because he did not stumble like McCain did in Iraq when he confused the Sunni's and Shiites and had to be corrected by Lieberman. (Can you imagine the outrage if Obama made such a major gaffe while travelling abroad!!)

Let us also not forget that Obama was respectful of the long-standing policy of not criticizing the US President while abroad.

The GOP has no choice but to make this election about Obama. Because there is no debate that the GOP's policies - which McCain will continue - have failed us over the last eight years and I don't know where this Country will be if we decide (i.e., VOTE) to continue them for another 4...

"I think Hillary and Bill should be very careful about not overreaching."

What over reaching Dog?

Jack

Yeah, but...some people here wanted Hillary to go away. That's why nobody complained when she took a vacation. Anyway, it's better to take vacations now. Because we all know being President is a full time job and you don't have time to go on vacations when you are the President. GWB could tell you that. LOL!

"Yup, and something happened on the way to Hillary's"

And there is the problem for some Obama supporters. They are not Obama supporters as much as they are Clinton haters. A true Obama supporter would be chiming in with the Obama campaign and going great we won lets respect senator clinto and welcome her into the effort.
Instead of the crap I've seen Obama supporters post in here today.

Jack

Dog,

I really think a roll call is the easiest and most traditional way even without a traditional speech putting her name in nomination.

She is giving the keynote and there may be some spontaneous demonstration following that speech following which she could thank her supporters and make a statement requesting their whole hearted support for Obama.

I just heard that there will be an Emily's List luncheon with both Michelle and Hillary as guests of honor. Perhaps some sort of speech passing the torch from one first lady to the next first lady.

The most obvious and easiest way is for Sen. Obama to have someone else give the keynote and to name her VP. Even if they don't speak to each other for the next four years, that would be instanteous party super glue of voters and guaranteed landslide.

2. Obama is a Radical Liberal

Republican Playbook 101:

-[The Democratic Nominee, whoever it may be] is too far to the left and is dangerous for the economy and National Security.

How many times are we going to let them do this. It is their go-to move and it is often effective because the GOP is willing to play fast and loose with the facts.

Short history lesson. Back when the Democratic Primary started - and Hillary was the presumptive nominee - the GOP was singing the praises of Obama. Don't you remember the "love fest" Morning Joe used to have with Obama. Hillary was GOP Enemy No. 1 and even during the GOP debates the candidates were positioning themselves to run against Hillary on the issue of Healthcare, Iraq and having Bill in the White House "with nothing to do".

Of course that all changed when Obama took the lead. All of a sudden HRC became a centrist and the darling of Pat B. and Fox News.

Now the Right Wing claims that Obama went to the far left to win his nomination. No he did not. Clinton was further left on 2 major issues: Iraq and HealthCare.

HRC stated that she would begin withdrawing troops in 60 days - no matter what the generals on the ground said. Whereas Obama proposed a phased withdrawal over 16 months that will give the generals greater flexibility. And of course Obama did not go as far left on Healthcare and did not adopt government mandates on all citizens - and he was taken to task for that position by Clinton but he did not cave.

And we cannot let the Bush tax cuts become the status quo. Obama's call to raise taxes on those making more than $250K will be getting us back to the Bill Clinton years - which left Bush with a Surplus and a strong dollar - which Bush then ruined with his stupid tax cuts and his excessive spending.

GOP = Government of the Privileged

You have a problem with Obama visiting his aging grandmother?

Nope, but McCain's crew will find a way to exploit this trip for their advantage.

Congress goes on vacation without an energy bill.....cut to Obama in Hawaill .... See the connection

out of touch with REAL Americans.

"Democracy my ass, this about the sore losers clutching on their shattered dream for one nanosecond more. Go drink more estrogen-aid. "

Gee, I didn't know Ted Kennedy too estrogen.

took not too

Obama is NOT a liberal. Haven't you seen Obama's recent flip-flopping on issues? He's more of a centrist now.

Btw, my shortlist for VP:

Hagel
HRC
Biden

And Obama should immediately say it is OK that HRC's delegates vote for her. What is the big deal?!?

It only becomes a big deal if it gets dragged out and Obama has to appear that he is caving in or he has to look like a hard ass and say no and then piss off her supporters.

Please, point to an Obama supporter on this blog today that is not more interested in Clinton destruction than Obama's election.

Jack

Jack:

Me

(but I was late to the party....)

dog
as you may remember --my guard dog has felonius tendencies of his own and probably would just show the folks around. I haven't replaced my laptop yet working off something from practically the last century...old and slow yuck.

Been busy with setting up a neighborhood watch
we've decided against berets.

KGC,

Either arm yourself or just put your valuables out front with a sign: Free

Sorry, dog,

Craigs post was straight from the cable mind meld.
Both Clintons and Obama campaigns deny it and a viewing WJC's interview back up what David Axelrod said this morning and the same for a view of the youtube clip of HRC's discussion with her supporters.

Jack

Dog
HRC is asking for less than her just due. As Jamie has repeatedly pointed out. How is that self aggrandisement. She IS a power in the party and deserves the respect that comes with it.

Jack

" this is not the time for power politics and self-aggrandisement"

Tell that to the Chicago machine (gun) crowd.

Bowmanc
It's all to creepy. As for a gun....familiar with the phrase shoot yourelf in the foot.

Aside from the obvious creeped out idea they are watching houses to see when people leave...so clearly lurking somehwere close by...they take things and then sort through them and end up throwing away stuff in garbage cans --so the whole neighborhood has had to go through our trash cans looking for other people's goods.

they better hope the sheriff catches them and not some of the neighbors who do own guns

30% of voters say the vp pick will have a great influence on their vote. Double the percentage who said so in the 2000 election:

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/2008/articles/2008/08/07/some_say_choice_of_vp_could_clinch_their_vote/?rss_id=Boston+Globe+--+2008+campaign+news

KGC

Look at home, They won't try places that are occupied. That is why they are doing the daylight burglery to find people who are gone.

Jack

This may sound cruel, but I do not have a lot of sympathy for someone that gets shot when they are breaking and entering.

KGC

Please do not shoot "yourelf" in the foot. They usually mean no harm.

Well, getting shot in the buttocks means that they are moving away from you, could be a problem with the police.

If they are coming towards you, you have an awful choice to make, wound or kill. Good training will teach you how to disable or kill depending on the level of threat. Generally the mere showing of a firearm will end the invasion or assault.

Not a fun subject, but having the ability to protect yourself from being a victim could save your life.

KGC, my sister's subdivision usually has a Summer garage sale. They found out one year that some people were using this as an opportunity to drive around the subdivision and "case" people's homes in the neighborhood. Many people had bad habits of not locking their side doors to their garages nor locking their cars parked in their driveways. One year they had a lot of robberies in their neighborhood. People having things stolen out of their cars and garages. Luckily, that hasn't happened in a few years. About a month ago at work, some guy was walking around the parking lot and trying to open car doors. I guess some people might not lock their cars doors at work. Someone saw him doing this, but they didn't report it. I thought that was kinda stupid.

Bill Clinton set for speaking assignment at the convention. Note MSNBC practically taking credit after the all day whine. The comments are very interesting as well.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/08/07/1254376.aspx

it's defintely drug related..although apparently not very bright tweakers..they take all the presciption meds they find including blood pressure medications etc not just stuff that will get you high or low.

the age of innocence is over for this neighborhood. Most people here didn't even lock their houses I had to find my house key.

The good thins is people are paying attention now.

Gallup O by 3 pts.
Rasmussen O by 1 pt.
Katu/Survey USA Oregon Obama 48/McCain 45

Wake up Democrats. If we want to make sure we win this race, nominate Senator Clinton for President.

The GOP haven't even begun the hard attacks yet.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/08/obamas-costly-clinton-problem.html#comment-125363

pogo: Have a great time w/LP !! I always loved their music too ..

viv

John Hogue - I prefer the oldest posts to be on top, because then I can follow them chronologically, but others might not. After I read through the first ones in order, from then on I read from the bottom up to keep from re-reading the older ones.

That strikes me as way too much explanation for a simple statement, but instead of deleting it, I leave it in for your delectation of making fun of me! I'm nothing if not generous!

John Hogue - I enjoy your posts.

That being said, I'm afraid I've found at least two new knotheads! More names to ignore - life is getting soooo
(insert whining noise here) difficult.

I agree about msnbc and the people remembering where they work, and swallowing their pride, and saying yessir. I have seen Mitchell, Zuckman,Todd do it. I'm serious - it's a look they get in their eyes. Tweety and Herr O are the ones who really brush people back if they say anything off the party line.

In that same vein, I looked into the Milbank story. There are stories that Milbank had already felt somewhat censored for saying something nice re Charlie Black, McCain's man. Then when he was told to correct or further explain his comment re Obama, he decided to announce his departure. Herr Olbermann says he went out and found another job immediately, and Milbank says he had been making plans to leave for a month.

Herr Olbermann did say (apparently) that he had already decided to drop Milbank when Milbank made his announcement. What a deep thoughtful man!!!! He mulled over the situation for hours and hours and decided he just couldn't have another and different voice on his show.

I am really taken with this story -obviously. Anything can happen but I can't imagine KO ever having a huge audience again.

BTW, what does the captcha do, how does it work, other than to annoy?

Boop

If you get the blue key, you don't have to deal with the captcha. It signs you in automatically.

The capcha prevents spamming by computerized programs. It makes you prove your are a human being.

Craig on KO. Must have been last minute. Almost missed him as I was clicking through.

dog's eye..Yes, Oregon is beautiful. I'm spending this week at the Oregon Coast. We have family in from as far as Washington D.C..It is nice to see your own state through the eyes of others. Sometimes we take the climate and beauty for granted.

Today's police out of control story

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/bal-mayor0807,0,4563211.story

Weren't there nine candidates, initially? Why not let ALL of them have their names placed in nomination at the convention? Then all the people who voted for -- or would have voted for -- any of the candidates will be recognized.

What was the point of the primaries, if we have to go through the exercise all over again? It is not a democracy if, after the votes are tallied, the also-rans can demand another vote and another and another until the results come out their way.

Frankly, the Clintons are coming off like Mr. Bush, who famously engaged in changing the game when he was a child -- if he lost a two-out-of-three game, he suddenly demanded three-out-of-five, etc., demonstrating his immaturity.

It is time for the Clintons to accept the outcome of the primaries. We don't need crybabies; we need to work together to defeat Mr. McBush.

Why should Hillary Clinton's delegates be treated any differently than the delegates for all of the previous Democratic Conventions?

There have only been four conventions since 1832 during which the nominee was decided by acclamation instead of a ballot, and all four nominees were incumbents (FDR, Lyndon B. Johnson, Bill Clinton, and Al Gore).

Hillary Clinton’s supporters simply want her to have the same opportunity that all of her predecessors have had. Barack Obama is still a candidate, albeit the presumptive nominee, but he is not an incumbent.

Imagine the outcry if the DNC had selected Senator Clinton instead of Obama and the historic opportunity for his name to be put in nomination was stonewalled by party insiders in the name “appearing unified”.

Frankly, if Obama can't face the same challenges that all other non-incumbent Democratic nominees have had to face, how on earth will the Democratic Party be able to beat John McCain?

I was watching Olbermann today and waiting for Mr. Crawford to come on , I had the sound muted and was looking at the clips KO was showing of Bill Clinton. His interaction with PEOPLE is something Obama could only wish for, and I didn't have to listen to the snide remarks from KO.

I did however listen Michelle Bernard an hour earlier saying out loud, in the most disrespectful tone she could manage, that Hillary could help BO best by leaving Bill at home from the convention....My question is ....Who exactly is this nasty bitch that she has the right to dis the only two-term Dem. president in the last half century. A president who was good for the country, not for the back room boys, which is why all this racist bulls**t is out there, to keep the Clintons down and break their hold on the Dem Party as if the Dem party is worth it now.
Anyway, where did this bitch come from, she was nowhere to be seen before the primary was down to 2.
It's people like her, and Roland Martin and Michelle Obama and Rev. Wright, and the crazy priest and connections to Rezko, and Farrakhan and bad losers like Kerry, and Dean and Kennedy, that terrify me about Obama's candidacy........

Sorry Guys, just thought I'd rant a little, what is it Capt'n Coll said......."I can't abide rude behavior, I won't have it."

Rita

Hillary won the primary votes Ben. If we want to win this election, we will dump Obama and nominate the real thing, Senator Clinton.

Was Senator Kennedy a crybaby when his named was placed in nomination against President Carter.

I've grown tired of the holier than thou Church of Obama which will likely lead us to defeat.

Time for a walk on the beach..

Benjamin Blue

Is there something about the primary process you don't understand? The nominee isn't the nominee until the convention nominates him or her. It's not official until the delegate votes are recorded in some way. Four years ago with only 1% of the delegates, Dennis Kucinich had his name placed in nomination and those delegates counted.

If all that was necessary for the nominee to become the nominee was to win enough races to get a certain number, then there would be no reason to hold a convention at all. It exists so that the delegates (all of them not just the ones voting for the winner) can get together to express their will and then go forward together.

This isn't something the Clintons invented. Heck. Jimmy Carter had to chase Teddy Kennedy all over the hall to get a picture with him and yes Teddy's delegates were counted.

P.S. I hope she lets her name stand at the convention and I hope her people tear the house down if necessary. I'm really tired of being disrespected by a bunch of suckling pigs............

Rita

Boop

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If you get your sign in and password again, come back here. sign in and be sure you indicate that you want to be remembered and that it is okay for them to have your email (if it asks).

If tht still doesn't work, write Craig. I believe he can be sure you are signed in.

Jamie

You are wasting your breath. It is Clinton hate that motivates a large chunk of the non AA obama supporters. They really can't stand the fact that HRC has power and is willing to politely use it. She has certainly been more supportive of Obama than either JJ or T Kennedy were.
They want her out of the picture and the sight of the BigDog chartering a plane for reporters and behaving large and in charge just infuriates them. It is funny. They are starting to look as foolish as rushboand the other right wingers who broke themselves on the clintons.
Come down to the same old equation
Obama needs her, she doesn't need Obama.

That is the power situation

Jack

good one Jamie

Jamie -- that article is chilling! Good Lord!

Look at the headline here!

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/frontpage

Well, I'll say it again -- I want my share of respect and recognition, too, so if Senator Clinton's supporters are given an opportunity to see their candidate's name placed into nomination, I want to see Senator Edwards' name placed into nomination as well. What's fair is fair, right?

Patsi

I hope they sue the bejeesus out of the Sheriff's department for the death of those dogs.

Well, I'll say it again -- I want my share of respect and recognition, too, so if Senator Clinton's supporters are given an opportunity to see their candidate's name placed into nomination, I want to see Senator Edwards' name placed into nomination as well. What's fair is fair, right?

Benjaminblue

It would be perfectly fair, but Edwards has already released his delegates and has also given up his speaking slot. The current potential scandal whether true or not is interfering with a convention appearance or major role.

BTW,

If they do a formal first ballot roll call, then any delegate committed to Edwards is free to vote that way even though Edwards released them.

The Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick (D) is spending the night in jail. He was forbidden to leave the country, but he made a recent trip to Windsor, Ontario. Thus, a judge ordered him to spend a night in jail. Not too mention the assualt felony assualt charge he may receive tomorrow for shoving a sheriff's deputy a few weeks ago. He is the first mayor in Detroit's 307 year history to spend a night in jail. The man needs to resign.

Jamie;.. 9:03 pm....... Oh please, say it isn't so. Do you believe that she might be VP. I sincerely hope not, because I really think he's going to crash and burn and I don't want her to get caught in the collateral damage that could be caused by his "youthful" support.

We all know that if it does happen that it will be the Clinton's fault, I mean, didn't Clyburn say so....I just think she should be as far away as is possible, without being completely out of the picture.

You Obama supporters, are the biggest bunch of idiots, that there could possibly be. you want The Clintons to help Obama, but everything they say you pick apart. Either you want their help, or you don't you can't have it both ways. All Clinton supporter's really want is for her name in nomination, so there will be an official record, of how many votes she won. This is really only for History sake. Maybe you Obama supporters, ought to take a lesson from him. You won, be polite about it, you would have wanted the samething for him. Obama, and The Clintons will handle this like the professionals that they are. Bitter and hate-filled words, said by Obama supporters, will only end up hurting him in the long run. I've heard lots of stories about people being sore-loser, but I've never heard winners, acting like you are.

Thanks, Jamie; I feel (slightly) better after reading your reasoning.

In any event, I'm not going to vote for the Democratic candidate this year, whether it is Senator Obama or Senator Clinton.

At least for now, I'm planning to vote for a write-in (and it's not Senator Edwards).

If Hillary is Obama's VP will they play the song "Don't Stand So Close To Me" at the convention?

Politically Pissed

I actually think that he could turn out to be a very, very good President. I really think that Sen. Clinton could be a major asset as VP and that former Pres Clinton could well be the humanitarian arm of the administration.

The above would require enormous self confidence on the part of Obama and desire to really improve America's standing in the world after the destructiveness of the Bush years.

If all the partisans and controllers would get out of the way, you could see something remarkable.

I don't know Corey. I think Clinton's odds are better than that.

Heres a Question for all Obama supporters If you were told tomorrow, that the only way for him to be POTUS, was with HRC as V.P. What would you do? Would you swallow your pride and vote for them, because he is who you truly believe in, or would you throw him down the tubs, because you hate her so much?

Jamie;..9:38 pm..... I appreciate the response, but my concern is not Obama - he's like a puppy that goes to whoever calls it - it's the people, and I use the term loosely, around him that make me apprehensive. I'm afraid I don't have your faith, my cynicism has finally caught up with me, and after the DNC's act on Michigan and Florida, I fail to see how "We the People" fit into this picture.......This looks like nothing more than power-brokering to me, at the cost of the economy, the war, the mortgage crisis and subservience to gas and oil...........and soon, international disdain - we can't bomb them all into submission(respect)..........

He's back!!!!

Recent CNN/Opinion Research polls scored Nader's support at 6 percent.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/254/story/46615.html

Jack

Wasn't expecting Craig's appearance on Countdown, but it sure was good to see him there. He got a few words in edgewise of Keith's speeches...err... questions. The Kissinger story was great - "never assume they have a strategy."

“Mike Gravel has a better chance of being the next VP than Hillary.”

Ditto

Lampe, The best way for Obama NOT to become president is with HRC. 90% of those who are true patriots and want to win this election have moved on.

I think the Clintons are cooked…the goose and the gander. Remember, hate will destroy you.

Patsi, fester……….fester..fester. You and Hilliary go together. What would you know about a Rhodes Scholar except a lot of hyperbole?

Well Karolenna;;;; Without the Clintons onboard it will be a cooked goose ala Obama. So maybe in a few months, we can meet here again and tell me then who the hater really is. My comments were just comments, yours on the other hand show what kind of supporters Obama really has. I bet Mr Harvard is real proud of these hateful remarks, you are the reason Clinton supporters won't vote for him.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/08/obamas-costly-clinton-problem.html#comment-125273

I LOVE her voice ... so rich & warm ... drawing ya in ... jmho

!:^}
viv

" Remember, hate will destroy you."

Karolenna,

You should have let us know you were ill.

Where’s The Magic Bump In Polls Obama?

"Obama stalls in public polling and ABC News Polling Director Gary Langer asked this question, “If everything is so good for Barack Obama, why isn’t everything so good for Barack Obama?”

Three demographic groups have generally kept Obama ahead in the past two months: African-Americans, youth and Hispanics. But a lead based on those groups is a tenuous one.

If there is a primary explanation as to why the race has remained close this summer, it is that Obama has failed to make gains overall with white voters, who still cast about three in four ballots on Election Day.

Obama also seems to have hit a ceiling with Hispanics."

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/08/07/wheres-the-magic-bump-in-polls-obama/

Karolenna - not being nasty but really curious. Do you think your comments to Clinton supporters are filled with hate or not filled with hate?

Also, Jamie - I have emailed Craig and he said he would ask their experts. Have heard nothing yet.

Corey...good for Judge Giles for not letting Kilpatrick make a mockery of the justice system and trash the probation/parole officers' standing.
NBC Nightly News interviewed a lady on a Detroit street. She said “It may be great for the comedians but he’ll have to resign.”

There is a sentiment for him to resign, so what will it be in the end, street cred or the final straw? I say there’s no way he will resign.

Kilpatrick’s effort at embarrassing Judge Giles backfired, point Giles.
Words are cheap…Kilpatrick’s claim to loving justice serve as mockery for that system.

Break probation, break parole…you go to jail for three days to the end of your sentence time…it’s up to the judge and the probation/parole officers. Kilpatrick gets a few hours with cacophony in his ears and a caged light in his eyes.
He’s slick, the mayor, and he’ll likely garner sympathy votes for this “ordeal”…what a world we live in! And match goes to Kwame.

P.S. I hope she lets her name stand at the convention and I hope her people tear the house down if necessary. I'm really tired of being disrespected by a bunch of suckling pigs........

rita

O supporters........go suck an egg.

I know you have felt the hatred of Homophobia as I have and it hurts like hell. Posted by: tonyb39 | August 8, 2008 12:41 AM

Wow Tony,
I hate the idea of you feeling any kind of hate aimed at you.
You are so nice. Insightful. Caring
All those nice things you tell others they are, you are.
I'm sure glad you're here.

Boop,
Can you re register with type key with a different name and a different email address - maybe an email address set up just for type key. I think it will work.

Meantime, on your capcha's, just keep hitting preview until you get one you can read (Nick suggested that to someone here once, and it works.)

John Edwards now admits he had an affair with Rielle Hunter, but says he's not the father of Hunter's child.

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5441195&page=1

Sad. Poor Elizabeth.