Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Not quite as dumb blond as she looks...hope the Hiltons get their refund...guess McCain will have to stay at the Holiday Inn Express from now on.

Yup; I hate to admit it, her being a media-contrived distraction and all, but I like Paris Hilton. She's hot as hell and has a good sense of humor. I'd marry her if she asked.

Yeah, I'm not.

Yet another reason I distance myself from media, e.g. TV. TV is a conduit of desire, and desire creates suffering. That the desire propagated by such methods is on the whole unattainable, it creates a cycle of discontent that compels consumers to consume even more in a futile attempt to alleviate their suffering. Not for me. I'd still bone Paris, though.

I love this "VIDEO" she supports "Drilling", and is giving McCain MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of dollars worth of free Press. Everyone is playing and writing stories about this. I have said repeated;y that she knows more about economics then "OBAMA", she has created more jobs than "OBAM", she is a true capitalist. She knows how to make money. She is going to milk this for all its worth. I McCain should invited her to a TOWNHALL and talk about ENERGY. Since Obama does not want to face McCain. In fact THE GOP HOUSE MEMBER SHOULD INVITE HER TO THE PEOPLES HOUSE TO PUSH SPEAKER PELOSI TO CALL A SPECIAL SESSION or AS I HAVE SAID BEFORE Call the house into session yourselfs. I am sure PAris Hilton will before than happy to join you all.

VJ Machiavelli
http://www.vjmachiavelli.blogspot.com
ps She is going to prove she is not a "FOOL",sh ejust makes her money playing the fool.

Paris! ... Be still my hard...er...heart!! I love her and I always will and I WILL vote for her...THIRD PARTIES FOREVER !!

Ashley Judd for veep !!

It's a brilliant video...

Mussolini, (sorry "Machiavelli") it's yourselves, not "yourselfs". I thought a "philosopher" would at least be able to spell...

By the way, my Italian boyfriend said to stop using Machiavelli's name is vain.

Arrivederci !!!!

The P Hilton video is funny and I like that Hilton mocks her own celebrity.

The plan she presents for the energy/gas crisis is actually pretty good. Of course, she's reading a prompter and the closest she's probably ever come to
figuring out an energy crisis is most likely wondering if there's enough outlets for her to plug in her hair dryer and straighter at the same time.

Unfortunately, the video reenforces all the ageist junk typical of McCain attacks like "wrinkled, old. . ." That bothers and bores me.

Paris is still an empty bathing suit to me.

But, I can certainly understand why a guy would be attracted to her hotness and financial security.

Dear EuroTom

I am the one any only VJ Machiavelli

As for the spelling, I like to see if people really read the posts. I find out by those you correct the spelling errors.

Yes, it is a "brilliant" video, and it will be the story for the next few days. But she has at least an energy policy. So I say Paris Hilton your times has come debate McCain in a townhall and go to Washington and lead the take over of the peoples house. Via the revolution

VJ Machiavelli
http://www.vjmachiavelli.blogspot.com

Ok well Obama has an energy policy too, and so does McCain if tearing up the environment is a sound policy.

Today I don't fight. it is my birthday... 49 , ugh!

Off to Antwerpen

tot ziens...

Happy Birthday, Euro Tom.

Happy Birthday too, Euro Tom

Don't know if you're still around, Tom...but yes -- HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

So... does this mean that the public will be polled looking for a Paris Hilton-bump?

There is a joke in there somewhere, I just know it.

"... does this mean that the public will be polled looking for a Paris Hilton-bump?"

ROFL, MM! Could be the official dance of the political season, the Paris Bump.

humor in the market place:

Morning Cable Ratings: Monday, August 4
Show (6-9amET) Network A25-54..... Total Viewers
Fox & Friends..... FNC 232,000............ 731,000
American Morning..... CNN 130,000...... 324,000
Morning Express..... HLN 125,000........ 258,000
Morning Joe MSNBC..... 85,000........... 291,000

Well Obama may always have Paris, he also has a bunch of big donors that will have a hell of a lot more influence than his small potato's internet contributors. Read the linked New York Times article.

In Obama Campaign, Big Donors Are a Major Force

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/06/us/politics/06bundlers.html

Instead of "change" you can believe in, it should be " bundles of cash you can beholden to."

yes that's bad. St Hillary took no donations over $12 and only from old uns and workign stiffs. She on of us,

course if eh werent raising money someon would be having a cow over taht.

strugeone,

Those ratings you posted are very interesting. Wow. Fox & Friends is beating Morning Joe?
I'm not a loyal viewer of either show these days.
But, has anyone noticed how short the skirts are on most of the Fox news women?

I rarely watch MoJo anymore. It's so predictable.

someone may have stayed too long at the fair.......

Pro Mar......they're staying away in droves......looks like they could use the old tried and true craig crawford bounce.......

strug,

MoJo is like a continuous campaign ad for you know who.

Dana Milbank responds to Olbermann:

Milbank will be appearing on CNN, says he did not leave countdown as a result of a dispute over his column------rather:

"I's just that CNN's a better fit for me & my philosophy of holding all parties to account."

http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowlDC/television/milbank_talks_about_olbermann_90892.asp#more

Good Morning all
Here's an interesting piece by Joan Walsh of Salon.I don't know if any of you read David Brooks yesterday but this is in reference to his column.I agree with so much of what Joan says,I think Sen. Obama and his team are not ready for the Republican slime machine. I hope Sen.Obama will become a fighter soon.I think Hillary could toughen up the O-team like she did during the primary process.Still Dreamin!

http://www.salon.com/opinion/walsh/?last_story=/opinion/walsh/election_2008/2008/04/25/olbermann_apologizes/

What's this about short skirts???

Poll by the National Women's Law Center, reveals that women are more concerned about their economic security than men--no surprise here--just further confirmation of the economic climate that continues to stress many Americans.

59% of women say they are worried & concerned about achieving economic & financial goals over the next 5 years; 33% called themselves hopeful & confident.

Men were more evenly divided--44% confident; 46% worried.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12333.html

I've kinda judged Paris by the company she kept when she was at the height of her celebrity. Based on at that criterion, she was vapid at best. But, I do think her video is a hoot and a deserved rebuke to Mr McCain.

Dog
Thanks for that link.I enjoyed your posts from yesterday, so much good info in them....Thanks always

Flatus that Paris Hilton post goes back to Sturge's comment last week about guilt by association.

BTW, somehow Kwame Kilpatrick's Mom got re-elected last night. In other news, the Detroit Zoo tax got passed.

Why isn't Obama further ahead? Because everyone who would have and could have voted for him did so during the Democratic primary. He maxed out his energized, motivated support groups then. Realistically, he was also going to have an uphill battle to reach the 60+ Million votes necessary to win the Presidency. Even in the best case scenario of getting 100% of Hillary's 18 Million Primary votes, it's still hard to see where the rest will come from. Even his national lead in registered voters consists solely of his run-away margin in California. Electorally, we'll have a horse-race. And Remember, America embraces the Underdop and shuns the Phony.

That Felt Good!

Just to give you guys hope:

Lizard 111 becomes father for first time

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24137344-12335,00.html

Happy Birthday ET Have a good one.

Dog, just read your comment about cable. I did the normal channel dig this morning, watched MoJo for a while, and finally ended-up on c-span.

Dog's Evy View:

You're absolutely right that there's a long way to go. I appreciate the anecdotal examples. Actually, I'm a Black Democrat, Hillary supporter and believer that we will be better off with a Democratic President.

I am concerned that the Dems did not picked the best choice and have made this campaign/election harder than it should be. I wouldn't have given the GOP a chance before, but now . . . .

DEV, excuse my unintentional mis-spelling.

mornin' al.

Gee, Marcia I hadn't noticed those legs - err, skirts. :-)

Mad, (if you're lurking) couple of bumps I'm guessing.

OK, I'm with Obama on this one - He's right when he says apparently McCain's campaign thinks they can win th epresidency by running a campaign that does nothing other than mock him. Problem is, Johnnie Boy is apparently too much of a dunderhead not to blow his punchlines. Really, now, Obama does have an energy plan - and while not everyone will agree with every point in it, it does include increased oil production, and expansion of renewable and alternative energy resources, IN ADDITION TO individual efforts to reduce consumption. Unlike the McCain plan, which is apparently to figure out who makes the most money off energy production, maximize their profits by encouraging greater consumption, and give lip service to altenative energy production.

And btw, I agree with Paris' take on McCain. GET OFF MY LAWN, and god I hope someone photoshops Cindy McCain's head onto this years winner of the Miss Buffalo Chip contest so John can get his wish.

dog "Suspect most reading Trail Mix get our news from internet, and a variety of sites at that, but what if you watch cable by habit? And CNN has deteriorated markedly." Yup, at least for me.

flatus, Paris hung out with other young hot celebrities - mostly blond - sort of like keeping company with herself, times over. Imagine.

Marcia, I'm not sure she's so much an empty bathing suit. :-) (I saw the BK commercial and that bathing suit was definitely not empty.)

I think McCain is aligned with Paris myself in terms of a media linkage. Afterall, it's Paris and John that have the running debate going.

"..at the end of the day, Barack Obama is aligned with Paris Hilton. If he's fine with that, so be it."

Craig, I wonder if her fans vote?

Political Perils of a 'Big Sort'?
By Robert Samuelson
WASHINGTON -- "People prefer to be with people like themselves. For all the celebration of "diversity," it's sameness that dominates. Most people favor friendships with those who share similar backgrounds, interests and values. It makes for more shared experiences, easier conversations and more comfortable silences. Despite many exceptions, the urge is nearly universal. It's human nature."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/05/AR2008080502933.html?sub=AR

Pogo

I don't see any real difference in either one inregard to energy.

http://www.johnmccain.com//Informing/Issues/17671aa4-2fe8-4008-859f-0ef1468e96f4.htm

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/energy/#set-america-on-path-to

Jack

That's an interesting OpEd Chloe, although I think your quoted selection is not much news. Reading further towards the ends it deals a little about how this all affects our politics. Here's a paragraph that i'm sure Jamie would not have any disagreement.

"With fewer competitive congressional districts, the real political struggles now often take place in primaries, where activists' views count the most. Candidates appeal to them and are driven toward the extremes."-R Samuelson

I agree Rez.

No Crisis Is Immune From Exploitation Under Bush
By HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON
August 6, 2008

"..we need far more than a Truman Committee. We need the Truman spirit in the White House, where the buck finally stops."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121798030763715107.html?mod=opinion_main_commentaries

dog,

"Mike on Ads"

Although I do all our banking and bill paying and a lot of purchasing online. These are the kinds of technology that scare me. Knowing Google and Yahoo have all of this computer's search history makes me wonder where that info will start coming up in court as evidence for prosecutions or persecutions.

Doots, and other vintage camera fans:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121797626872014909.html?mod=2_1578_topbox

'Big Artists, Big Camera:'

Yes, Dog, I really miss Maggi, too.

Chloe,

Interesting & with more than a hint of truth in the theory of the Big Sort.

The most telling statement & cautionary as well:

' Passionate partisans dislike compromise and consensus. They want to demolish the other side. Whether from left or right, the danger is a tyranny of true believers.'

I guess it has in China.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/08/obama-goes-to-paris.html#comment-124838

' Passionate partisans dislike compromise and consensus. They want to demolish the other side. Whether from left or right, the danger is a tyranny of true believers.'

aaaaaaaamen

Jack, I had read both candidates' plans. On paper, you're probably right - overall the differences long term in their energy plans are fewer than the similarities. The main difference I see is that McCain's plan begins with increased production of domestic carbon-based energy while Obama's begins with providing relief to consumers (I've always been told that you put the most important stuff first). Beyond that, Obama's plan lists specific targets where JM's plan is much more general, but in fairness the Lexington project might have such targets as well although they aren't in McCain's campaign literature. But you could never tell from his Schmidt-produced soundbites (which he can't even get right) that there is any similarity between their programs. My beef with Johnnie is his dishonesty on the subject, and I do not believe that he is unaware that the tire inflation comment was a comment in passing about what individuals can do to reduce fuel consumption.

"Just like the "idiot phase" the "press" went through in 2000, when it glorified George W. Bush ---
Just like the "idiot phase" the "press" went through in 2004, when it glorified George W. Bush"

And don't forget the idiot stage when they cheerleaded us to war and the 2008 election when they....oops.

Rez, articles like this make me a tad uneasy about the supposedly secure transactions I've always thought I was engaging in online,and I engage in a lot of them. I've never had a problem with an online transaction leading to a CC or ID theft, but I've known folks who have, and it's a frickin' nightmare to correct.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/06/business/06theft.html

... glorified idiot soundbites from the McCain camp.

OMG! Jamie -- that 111 year old lizard story brought me to my knees laughing:

"He wasn't interested in sex until a cancerous tumour was removed from his bottom," said curator Lindsay Hazley.

"He bit the tail off his previous female companion twice. But since the operation his hormones have been raging."

Best line in the Paris ad-I'll see you bitches at the debates! I'm not sure about McCain, but Obama is like a little baby. His" you can vote for someone else or run yourself "comments were like a middle schooler. He is just so sensitive-not leader material at all.

I can't vouch for the accuracy of the figures, although they seem to be as well founded as any I've seen on theissues, but here's a CBS article on tire inflation and offshore drilling.

http://wcco.com/goodquestion/tire.gauge.energy.2.788544.html

Seems Obama is more right than JohnnieMc. ~~~Whodathunkit?~~~

Pogo explains McCains energy plan perfectly (his economic plan, as well) --

" Unlike the McCain plan, which is apparently to figure out who makes the most money off energy production, maximize their profits by encouraging greater consumption, and give lip service to altenative energy production. "

"The article did not touch on the age factor -- that's huge in this upcoming election; much more so than preference expressed through residence."

Or the critical thinking factor, or the "most likely to join the People's Temple" factor.

Pogo,
I hear ya. That news caught my attention. I have alerts on all of our CCs and monitor them myself regularly. I 've actually caught unauthorized charges prior to getting my bill inthe mail. It was small time and although I don't know the results of their fraud investigation, it looked like a simple inside job by an employee on my info.
What about using Google/Yahoo search info as evidence of motive or intent in the courtroom? I know motive's not an element or required but I can see (down the road) the gov't using it as an investigative tool without our knowledge.

This blog is an illustration of The Big Sort. Relatively narrow spectrum of ideologies; I feel like an outlier for being an avowed Obama supporter. http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/08/obama-goes-to-paris.html#comment-124839

I often come on and read the posts here and think: Man, I love these people. It's not just the information, but the humor, the passion, the ideas, the disagreements - all of it. Sharing is an important thing.

The only thing I don't like is when people attack others, in a personal way, for their thoughts. Thoughts change. But not through bullying and belittlement. That's when doors close.

Dog, I don't think you're an outlier for supporting Obama. How interesting would this site be if everyone always agreed on everything? What would that accomplish? Besides, there are a lot of Obama supporters here. We're almost all Democrats.

Two more good reputable links detailing the savings of “properly” inflated tires.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/maintain.shtml

On this site the Carnegie Mellon's Sustainable Earth Club study said that with gas at $3 a gallon, not $4 which is closer today, their campus alone could save $1,296,000 a year.

http://www.cmu.edu/cmnews/extra/050921_tire.html

Everybody should know that properly inflated tires save $, but what the Repugs are trying to say is that this is Obama’s ONLY energy plan. Received some emails yesterday stating just that.

vanessa, you don't know about McCain? Please. He's the punchline-mangling would-be playground bully grown up and elected to the senate. He's Biff Tannin to Obama's Marty McFly.

How about the government reducing its consumption. Less military planes flying VIP's around. Less Crown Vics & Esclades ferrying government officials around. Less people employed by the government driving government,cars, vans, trucks, tractors, bosts, planes, ships.... around.

No just make the citizens carry the burden of conservation.

bosts should be boats. But you get the idea.

Damn Pogo,

I had to google those folks. I'm not a BTTF fan.

btw, McCain is responding to Paris now. LOL
What's this election coming to?

Don't have to go any further than Craig's CQ's Politifact to find support Obama's tire inflation energy statement.

Not overinflated (though it sounds like it)

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/608/

The harsh reality is that all solutions will have to be available, as stated in the CBS article, Pogo cited:

"you don't have to choose a position on this thing. It can be both---drilling and tire inflation."

"How about the government reducing its consumption. Less military planes flying VIP's around. Less Crown Vics & Esclades ferrying government officials around."

Ain't gonna happen anytime soon Bow.

Bowman, how about both?

Rez - I didn't realize Paris was running. What a marooon.

tractors? LOL

Not an auspicious start - Norway beats US women 2-0 in opening qualifying match.

http://olympics.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/06/coming-soon-womens-soccer-us-norway/index.html?hp

I bet JM has the idea to make Paris his Secretary of Energy if he's elected.

Maggi, If you're out there, we miss you. Come back!

A boon for Pickens, not for America
T. Boone Pickens' proposals to wean the country off foreign oil could provide more benefit to Iran than to the U.S.

"At a time of great public anxiety about our energy future, Congress should focus on policies that would grant Americans true energy independence, rather than replace one dependence with another. Instead, Democrats and Republicans in the House and the Senate have preferred to follow up on Pickens' plan with bills to increase the use of natural gas as a transportation fuel. Such initiatives would certainly be a boon for Pickens, but not for America."

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oew-luft6-2008aug06,0,3336586.story

Pogo/Jack,

Wasn't Bear buying Freddie Mac the other day or Fannie Mae?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/06/freddie-mac-loses-821-mil_n_117188.html

Rez, and he'll move her office next to the oval office - or maybe into that office that Bill and Monica had pizzza and cigars in. (And before you folks jump - lighten up).

Rez, I think he was. Guess it's a long term investment.

Rezdog,

My investment in Fannie and Freddie were in a virtual mutual fund I manage. If you go to www.marketocracy.com, you can set up your own fund with $1 million they start you with.

I bought both at their bottoms and made over 100% gains before selling them due to concerns over volatility. While they are dropping a bunch today, they are still up 50% of their bottoms 2/3 weeks ago.

If bear is as smart as he was trying to describe himself regarding the market, he got in and got out in a few days. Believe it or not, a company can report a huge loss and the stock share price can go up, just because the company didn't lose as much as experts ("the street") thought it would.

You up or down career, bear? I'm probably down about 5-10%, which is horrible, but it's not the bulk of my capital, thankfully.

Bear,

Cool, just curious. Myself, very little knowledge, but understand buying low and selling higher.

If only it were that easy, Rez. It's a shark tank, and the little guy is chum.

chloe, I'm not so hard on Pickens as Luft is. Pickens' plan would indeed do a great deal for his investments, but I don't believe that negates whatever merit there may be in his proposal, and there is some merit to it. Neither do I believe he thinks his plan is the last step in achieving energy independence, but rather is a first step that he sees as a feasible one given the existing state of technology, and which for that reason he has invested in.

Example - for $5K I can buy a windmill that will provide about 30% of my electric needs. I'm not going to because the period for the return on the investment is too long - about 10 years - to make it worth my while - plus I don't want the thing in my back yard. But I can turn the temp on my A/C up a couple of degrees and use fans and achieve savings of about half that - which is in my direct financial benefit - and the merit of doing that and advocating that others would benefit by doing that is not negated by the fact that I benefit financially from it.

There are criticisms that can be made about Pickens' plan - as Luft points out, some of the underlying conditions don't support his results assumptions - but the fact that he would benefit financially is a red herring.

Champ,

It's difficult to extrapolate career numbers because I joined the site in October 2001and I taken at least half that time off from the site...

I've beaten the S&P for the following time periods...

last week
last month
last quarter
last six months
last year
last two years
last three years

My 5 years rate of return is 30.5% but that trails the S&P which did 44% over the same period.

You got any real cash in play, or just monopoly money?

Now if only I had the money to actually invest...lol

Gallup Poll: Top reasons why the price of gasoline is so high:

Plenty of blame to go around:

58% oil company price gouging
58% foreign oil producers price gouging
57% Congress' lack of effective action
52% speculation by oil/commodity investors
51% lack of effective action by Bush administration

Seems $4+ gallon gas is the tipping point--there is growing support for price controls on gasoline
62% favor instituting price controls.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/109303/US-Congress-Gouging-Blamed-Equally-Gas-Prices.aspx

Obama's 'Lost Year'

"Barack Obama has been skillful at trying to deflect attention from slices of his life that may embarrass him or cause political problems. He has written two books and in both of them deliberately ignored his work on behalf of a weekly newsletter concerned with trading and hedging for profit. He may rail against Wall Street now (a recent ad touts that he passed up "Wall Street" jobs) but for at least a year he saw no problem promoting financial speculation for profit.

No wonder he has censored this year from his biography-he might offend his left-wing base."

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/08/obamas_lost_year.html

LOL
Read that as
"one of Maureen's bitter columns"

Jack

"How about the government reducing its consumption. Less military planes flying VIP's around. Less Crown Vics & Esclades ferrying government officials around. Less people employed by the government driving government,cars, vans, trucks, tractors, bosts, planes, ships.... around. "

Right on, Bow.

"Unlike his wife, Bill Clinton — the master of fake sincerity — still continues to openly begrudge his party’s betrothed."

Business as usual. Clinton pisses her off so much she has to lie.
Guess she didn't hear the interview where he gave his whole support to Obama. He did this even as the reporter was asking loaded questions designed to get an answer to prove MoDo' claim.
A good many in the Press are really pissed that Bill just won't lay down and die.

Jack

"btw, McCain is responding to Paris now. LOL
What's this election coming to?"

That's what I thought when I heard Obama's reaction to the ad. His campaign released one word:

"What-evvvvvver."

ROFL -- sort of like he didn't know that everyone in the damned world knew about inflating tires.

bear, if you could do that with any consistency, you'd be too busy turning pages in your beach reading to stop in here to comment, and I'd be next to you complaining about the heat 'cuz I'd have you managing my investments - I hope the have wireless to the beach at the resort. I guess it's the "making money in a down market" opportunity you were lucky enough to take advantage of - this time. (But considering what the S&P has done in the past 5 years - considering its drop over the past year - your prescience would have to be complete not to get burned). It does point out the need to look at the market in the very long term.

"He did this even as the reporter was asking loaded questions"

Jack, I was listening to one pundit who found that WJC interview extremely odd, in that, to him, when Slick was asked some obtuse question he went right into a 'I'm not racist "line of response. I haven't watched it. . yet.

"One of Maureen's better columns. "

Maureen has been obsessed with Bill Clinton's shorts for so long she's become a joke.

"Looking good, Billy Ray!"

"Feeling good, Lewis!"

Well, not to pile on, but:

Othello is a fictional character, and Richard the III was 600 years ago, so she could have just said "not since Nixon and Kennedy", but then she wouldn't have been able to imply she might have possibly read Shakespeare and a history book in her past.

Well, Rez, why the hell shouldn't he be pissed? The very first gauntlet thrown in this bunch of BS was an Obama tool asking an Atlantic writer to investigate Bill Clinton's post White House sex life. It was very early in the process. When I heard the journalist talking about it on NPR I almost wrecked the car. Then he was branded a racist by simply responding to a question about whether race played into Obama's South Carolina victory -- of course it did, and Jesse Jackson is a good example.

AND I heard Andrea Mitchell saying several times that she was getting constant emails from the O-team ginning up that racist angle.

I think that's chickenshit.

Especially given that those right wingers in Arkansas who hated Clinton and went after him did so in large part because of his support for the black community.

Pure chickenshit.

heheheh

http://blogs.reuters.com/trail08/2008/08/05/mccain-takes-air-out-of-tire-pressure-debate/

disingenuous ass

"disingenuous ass "

Both of them. And do either candidate believe that most working class Americans are puzzled how something they've known about for years, tire pressure, has suddenly become big news?

Both of these guys are out of touch with reality.

Presidential debate moderators chosen

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/08/who-gets-to-ask.html

Jack

That interview with Clinton has been chopped into really unflattering bits and pieces so that MSObama can slant it against him. I heard it once I think in full and he is much more supportive and balanced.

This blurb cut and paste journalism is criminal.

Patsi,

I'm not questioning his right to be upset/mad about anything/anyone. What I was referring to was the observation by this pundit, that although the topic was about something unrelated to race (he used an example like weather). And Clinton went on and on about him not being a racist, as though he was just waiting for the subject to come up and since it hadn't, Slick was going there anyway.
I guess oversensitive is a good word here.

I won't argue my disagreement with you about his comments during SC primary.

The Commision on Presidential Debates is a filter designed by thugs to keep you and I stupid. **** '**, and everyone else who pretends they are a venue for honest and unfettered discourse, Lehrer and Ifill included.

"And Clinton went on and on about him not being a racist, as though he was just waiting for the subject to come up and since it hadn't, Slick was going there anyway.
I guess oversensitive is a good word here."

Maybe so, but if you had done as much as Clinton had for blacks, then called a racist by some cat who has actually done very little for his community....well, you might be oversensitive. All this has taught me is that no good deeds go unpunished.

Patsi,

I agree that Maureen acts like she's the one woman in the world that Bill Clinton wouldn't "consult" with, but she seems to be on point with this one...

Don't shed too many tears for the Clintons. They knew how the game was played, and they were considered the masters of it until this year. They're professional manipulators, for crying out loud.

Well,

With Tom Brokay moderating the town hall debate,

We can expect Obama to get asked how calculate the quadratic equation while hopping up and down on one leg or why does he hate black people while he asks John McCain what color the sky is...

Count Shieffer as another McCain fluffer...so John McBitter can't blame poor debate performance on moderator bias.

Claim: Obama's "birth certificate" forged with sister Maya's original

"... at least two analysts have been able to independently discern the name "Maya Kassandra Soetoro" from artifacts left behind in the process of forging a new fake document for Barack from an image of Maya's original document. Additional confirmatory information, such as her birthday and the nationality of her father have also been resurrected.

The revelation that the COLB of Obama's own sister was evidently used to create the electronic forgery represents what supporters of this analysis claim is a "smoking gun" that appears to implicate Senator Obama directly. Hawaii law limits access to vital records to family members only ...

Intriguingly, too, Maya Soetoro-Ng is believed to have been born outside the United States, in Indonesia, so her apparent ownership of a Hawaiian Certificate of Live Birth raises questions about how such a document could have been produced for an Indonesian-born girl. There do appear to be circumstances which would enable a foreign born child to get a US birth certificate, including a consular report of an overseas birth by an American citizen, or an adoption."

http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/13040.htm

Tom Brokaw has a speech impediment that affect his pronunciation of 'ell' sounds, so it may be fun to observe how he phrases his questions to avoid the use of words containing an 'ell' sound.

Q: What's the hardest part of a vegetable to eat?

A: The wheel-chair!

“Andy Warhol said we all get our 15 minutes of fame,” says Barack Obama. “I’ve already had an hour and a half. I mean, I’m so overexposed, I’m making Paris Hilton look like a recluse.”

And this was before McCain's ad. So why is he complaining?

" The thing is it's about him and not Hillary"

Yes, Rez -- I think you're right. But after Daschle told O he had to damage Bill's legacy to defeat Hillary, that's where they headed. So for Bubba -- it does remain about him.

Rez
Which interview was that?
I only saw the GMA interview on ABC the other morning. iirc, the mention of Clinton having a problem with the black community was brought up by the reporter.
First thing Clinton did in that interview was praise Obama and declare his support for him. What Clinton did was slam the press for false reporting. When the reporter tied the anon sources gambit " some say there is anger" he slammed backwith a "who said" Then the reporter said 'Jame Clyburn" Clinton pointed out that Clyburn was not a supporter. In the back and forth over his accusation that the press lied "I'm not a racist" may have been said but it wasn't the thrust of the arguement.

GMA's tease before the piece and their talking head piece after was bordering on a big lie. The interview they aired didn't back up the charges they were making.

That is the only interview I've seen.

Jack

Champ,

I'll do you one better in the "god awful/ going to hell joke department"

Why did Helen Keller's bed have holes in it???

Because her boyfriend was blind too...

"but she seems to be on point with this one..."

Bear -- second only to Godwin's Law, there's an old rule of the net that says once people start saying somebody is "just jealous" -- conversation has become too stupid to continue.

Why do you fill your head with garbage like GMA, Jack? Honestly, I'm just wondering.

"They're professional manipulators, for crying out loud."

Disagree, champ. They're professional politicians. It's a fine line, I know.

Better to reign in hell than serve in heaven, Bear.

"We can expect Obama to get asked how calculate the quadratic equation while hopping up and down on one leg or why does he hate black people while he asks John McCain what color the sky is... "

ROFL, Bear -- gotta agree on that. I'd just like to hear some reality from either of these phonies.

I make no distinction, Patsi. We'll agree to disagree on that.

champ

morning coffee with the wife.
We usually catch the local news, with weather(old construction worker habit) It rolls into GMA. usually only watch 15min if that much, then its out the door.

Jack

Patsi

During election season so fine as to be nonexistent, imo.

Jack

lunch over back to work.

Got a break from the heat but not much.

Jack

Well, gotta try to strip the bed in the guest room and do a load of wash...my sis is coming to visit in a few days. I'm revved...because we're tight. Plus, we've been working on a book together and finally have some "face time" on it. Working by email sucks.

Unfortunately, she's on a diet and I'm not. And she always wants to start smoking again when she's around me. So between food and smokes, I'm a bad influence....

What Bill Clinton suffers from is malady that a number of white liberals suffer from. They think they know African Americans. They have black friends, take in interest in black issues, have enough black people who tell them that they're "okay" because of their "dedication" to the black community, so they really start to believe it. They get comfortable in thinking that they know best for the black community and tend to think that their issues are our issues.

So when reality bites them in the ass, like the fact that African Americans prefer a qualified African American presidential candidate, thank you very much, over a "mythic black president" then they get angry and a sense of entitlement comes out.

Let me preface this: I don't think Bill Clinton is a racist by any means. However, his comments and reaction to being rejected (or Hillary being rejected) spoke much about how he viewed African Americans. Unfortunately, Bill still doesn't understand that we African Americans have our own political interests. Sometimes they coincide with Bill and other white liberals. Other times, they don't. And when they don't, you then get the racially tinged comments from white liberals like Geraldine Ferraro and others, who through their own myopic view of the black community, let their racial biases show.

This is as old as black and white relations in this country. There's always been a sort of paternalistic synergy between African Americans and white liberals, and while that synergy has done some good things like create a better America through Civil Rights, the women's movement, gay and lesbian movement, etc., it also periodically hits bumps in the road. This too shall pass. Bill is hurt, but he needs to learn a very good lesson. The African American community still likes him. We still think he was the best thing since sliced bread. But no matter how close to us, he's not African American. So he shouldn't be so sure that he knows everything about our community. Because if he did that, this campaign would have been just another rough and tumble campaign where his candidate lost.

"We still think he was the best thing since sliced bread. But no matter how close to us, he's not African American."- Mr. D.

Black America has spoken. Take note. So much for that color-blind society.

I never wanted you to ignore my color. I just don't want you to make irrational decision based on it.

Fair enough. I perceive your "no matter how close to us, he's not African American" line as akin to the same type of speech used by white supremacists, i.e. "Obama's a ****e*, he ain't one of us, he'll only look out for his own kind".

Well, glad I waited to do the wash. So Mr. D -- you are saying that those of us who live in mixed neighborhoods, have black friends that we have real conversations with -- not just BS PC crap -- might just as well say the hell with it because -- as the song says, "You don't know me."

Does that mean the next time an affirmative action issue comes up, white liberals should shrug and say, "Who, us?"

I worked on that slave cemetery with a black separatist and you sound a lot like him. Although he was much more likable.

Not by white supremacists, that's too easy a cop out. BTW, there needs to be a GODWIN RULE for white supremacists or the KKK. Anyway, Hillary used that card throughout her campaign by "identifying" with "hardworking" white working class Americans. The idea is that Obama was not in that category, so vote for me. McCain is taking the same script and is trying to paint Obama as "exotic" as though Hawaii is not part of America, and being black is "strange". So it's common political strategy and not used exclusively by African Americans. I would suggest and argue that since African Americans regularly vote for white candidates without protest, the actual need for evidence of openmindedness will occur during this election.

And Obama played race AND gender cards when he called his grandmother "a typical white woman."

But YOU don't get to have an opinion. Mr. D because you ain't walked a mile in my stilettos.

Patsi,

No one in America has real cross racial conversations. We have conversations about things that we may have in common, and we have superficial conversations that avoid issues. But there is absolutely no way for you to know or understand the nuances of what African Americans think about you, while on the converse side, I am not privy to the private conversations you have in your family or among your non black friends. As for affirmative action, white liberals won't shrug and say who us, mainly because affirmative action has benefited white women much more than it has African Americans. So they have a stake in it. Now, if white women were taken out of affirmative action, I would be very interested to see how passionate they were about the policy.

BTW, I love how both you and Champ like to go to the extremes in order to explain away this pollyanna view of race in this country. One doesn't have to be a black "extremist" or white "supremacist" to understand that the banality of race is driven by regular Americans who simply don't speak honestly to each other, so they retreat to the places where they feel comfortable. And just like a camera changes the reality it shoots, the presence of another race or culture changes the conversation so that it's always affected.

Dude, if you indeed speak for all of Black America (and I realize you DON'T), like you claim with the use of the word 'we', then you just sent race relations back 40 years with your post. You said "no matter how close to us, he's not African American". Your words, not mine. It's an 'Us vs. Them' mentality based on race. Don't deny it. It's EXACTLY the same logic used by white supremacists. The reason you need a "Godwin Rule" is because your position in indefensible, and it would be much more convenient for you to dismiss me out-of-hand.

"No one in America has real cross racial conversations."

Let's have one right now.

Obama's remarks were an attempt to explain her views. Nothing wrong wtih that. And if I can't walk in your shoes, please don't think that because you have "black friends" in your "mixed neighborhood" that you have a clue to what it means to be black. On that, we can agree.

Sorry Champ, but this is not a dialogue, but two monologues. You're not particularly interested in changing your viewpoints, but scoring some points. And unlike other African Americans who come on forums where they have to defend any and everything black, I'm not interested in trying to convert or convince you of my viewpoint. You can understand it. You can not understand it. Probably, you'll take the latter.

And although I think my brain is powerful, I doubt its powerful enough to "set race relations back 40 years". Even with an ego as large as mine, that's a bit too much.

Ask me anything you want regarding so-called 'white culture' and I'll answer honesty, though I make no claim to speak for all, or even a large number of 'white' people. I'd request the same courtesy. If you have a better proposal for the format, I'm willing to consider it and conform as much as I think is necessary without slanting the debate.

If you refuse to participate, never again bemoan the lack of candid conversations regarding race, as you are being given an opportunity to have one right now.

And you're wrong, I am truly interested in challenging my own views. That's the only way to both confirm the or reject them with confidence.

"No one in America has real cross racial conversations. We have conversations about things that we may have in common, and we have superficial conversations that avoid issues. "

Well, most of the blacks I know well these days are women, so maybe gender trumps. Because usually we talk about sexist pigs and arrogant a-holes we know.

The Nation tears apart Jonah Goldberg's incredinbly stupid article on race and the Olympics:

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080818/zirin2

Running away, huh? Figured as much.

"Brave Sir Robin ran away. Bravely ran away, away! When danger reared it's ugly head, he bravely turned his tail and fled, yes brave Sir Robin turned about, and gallantly he chickened-out, bravely taking to his feet, he beat a very brave retreat, bravest of the brave, Sir Robin!"

Just curious, but is there some point to this? Here's what I draw from it - I can't understand what it is to be black, or female. Patsi can't understand what it is to be black or male. MD can't understand what it is to be white or female. I assume this extends to others of any race, nationality, sexual orientation, generation, etc. that is not our own, and we can't discuss our experiences to try and understand our respective feelings about our respective lots in life. IOW, we can only understand what it is to be what each of us is. Is that it? So to discuss this stuff is futile? I think I don't get it.

Champ,

See here's what you need to know. And perhaps this is a bit arrogant on my part. But I'm completely free to decide what I want to talk about or not want to talk about. I need no ultimatums, declarations of "if/then" commitments, or white gloves slaps across the face to determine who, what, when or why I want to debate something.

"Debating" me is something that you need, not something that I need. I'd first have to be interested in learning something about your views. I hate to put it this way, but I'm not. I don't want to teach you anything, or change your views. I think we too often think that in this country, if we only "talked" about it, things would be better. But again, we have monologues. Not because we're not caring, happy, decent people. But because the issues that deal with race are tied to a ton of larger issues that then feed into even more macro issues. So instead of doing the long term work to address race in this country, we like to feel good by "thinking" we make progress by throwing around a few words, hoping to find commonality, a commonality that will make everyone feel good about themselves. Sorry, but there are many others to play that game. Count me out.

As for Patsi, I've always made note of the saying that you attract the people you deserve. And maybe that explains your circle of friends. And by the way, the notion that gender trumps race is a very, very white woman view of the two issues. It just might be that for the majority of black women, they look at the two issues as being equal, but since you're white, they know that you can't possibly understand the obstacles of being black, so why even try to explain? Did you ever think about that? Again, making the conversation comfortable is the goal, not understanding conflict and then coming to an understanding.

That's malarkey, pogo. Mr. Democrat can't substantiate his own myopic statements, and is now resorting to generalizations to escape the discussion he started. I'm glad you don't 'get it', because i've ascertained that you are an independent thinker, and humanity can't afford to lose any of them.

I love this story: Christian bikers try to kill Hell's Angels...

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-bikers7-2008aug07,0,2962846.story

Champ,

In order for the "chicken" accusation to really have an effect, you have to care about the person making the accusation. You have to care about what they think about you, how you'll look in the eyes of friends and family, and your reputation going forth. Even then, you have to balance all that with whether sticking to principle is better than dealing with the person making the accusation. In short, you meet none of the criteria. This is a blog. I don't know you. I don't care about your views. You need me to debate you and I don't need you. So why do I care about you getting upset? Perspective, Champ. Perspective.

" IOW, we can only understand what it is to be what each of us is. Is that it? So to discuss this stuff is futile? I think I don't get it."

Pogo -- My stilleto comment was just me being a smart ass back at Mr D....don't take it as anything more....:)

Ok, I'll make it easy for you, Mr Democrat. You're a pretentious douchebag.

You lose.

Oh, the "Brave Sir Robin" song is from Monty Python. It's a 'white' thing; you wouldn't understand.

Pogo,

There are commonalities to life, and I think Obama is trying to make us think about them. So that direction is not futile. But the whole "tell me about being black and I'll tell you about being white and we'll all be happy in the end" is a fallacy. Just a jacking of jaws that produce no light, but a lot of heat.

Thanks for explaining my female friends to me Mr D....I am seeing one of them later today, and I'll pass along your viewpoint. I'll tell her that you think she is having a phony conversation every time we talk because I'm white. I'm sure she'll think you are brilliant to diagnose our friendship from the net.

Hey Champ,

I win in oh so many ways. Mainly because your argument and approach were "wafer thin". That's Python too. It's a black thing, you wouldn't understand.

You're confusing 'want' with 'need'. I want to debate you, I don't need to debate you. I'm 'white', though, you can't understand me, right? By your own logic? And yet your presumptuous statements indication a belief that you do understand me psychologically contradict assertions you made not 5 minutes before. It seems as if you don't even know what the hell you're saying.

Patsi,

I think you are being overly dismissive of Bill Clinton's jealousy. I'm sure it's a tough transition going from most powerful man in the world to ordinary citizen.

I think it does chafe the former President that there is someone on the stage, that he can't control, who is equally as charismatic as he. I think he's jealous of the fact that while Reagan had the security of knowing that he was the standard that every Republican who followed him would aspire to. Unfortunately, neither Gore, nor Kerry and now Obama have secured the nomination without paying his time in office any tribute. Considering the peace and prosperity he presided over, I would be pissed too.

When you are "the man" for so long and then find yourself in a position where you aren't on top and no longer have a way of getting back there, it's not unreasonable to suggest he has a little envy.

Patsi,

And you'll know that you're getting a true answer from your black friend how? Oh to be so naive and needy. To just NEED to feel that there are no difference between us. And if I can only be reassured from time to time that you like me, you really like me, then things will be okay. Now you know how Bill feels.

Ha. I remember one time I was working for a black manager, I'll call him "Barry", and he was riding my ass for not doing something properly, and at the end he made some comment, I don't even remember what it was. I asked him what he meant, and he responded, "It's a black thing. You wouldn't understand".

Now, after Barry walked away, I turned to my other black co-worker, I'll call him "George", and I said, "Hey, George! Barry just said such and such, and then when I asked him what he meant, he said 'It's a black thing, you wouldn't understand.' What did he mean by that?"

To which George replied, "Oh, that just means Barry doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about."

Hey Champ,

I win in oh so many ways. Mainly because your argument and approach were "wafer thin".

Posted by: Mr. Democrat

Oh, I thought you didn't need to debate me, and refused to participate. So how could you win?

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/08/06/martin.billclinton/index.html

Can a candidates huge lead in a huge state skew the national polling surveys of registered voters? Example: Does Obama's big lead in California skew the Gallup daily tracking poll of registered voters? If it does, then the reported results can be misleading and not at all indicative of a November outcome, as in electoral vs popular vote.

" I'm sure it's a tough transition going from most powerful man in the world to ordinary citizen."

I don't think Bill Clinton is exactly an ordinary citizen. I take your point about things being out of his control. But I never thought he "controlled" the Democratic party anyway. He's not exactly a cat herder.

John,

A good place to go is Real Clear Politics. You can then get a break down, state by state, to see where the polls are.

"To just NEED to feel that there are no difference between us. And if I can only be reassured from time to time that you like me, you really like me, then things will be okay."

ROFL. I'll tell her you said she'd even be a liar in her answer, too.

In case you haven't noticed, Mr D -- I am not in the business of being a sweetheart who gives a damn if someone happens to "like" me.

"In order for the "chicken" accusation to really have an effect, you have to care about the person making the accusation."

Mr. Democrat,

How about the truth? Do you care about that?

I was actually ready to post a note to you after I read your post. I wanted to say how much I, for one, appreciated you trying to explain how you felt about Bill and all your other views you tried to explain.

But, now you're talking as though it doesn't matter what we think anyway. Right?

champ, I like to think I'm a fairly independent thinker - and I'm flattered that you recognize that maybe i am to at least a degree. Of course it's malarkey. I like to think that if someone describes their point of view and reasoning on an issue I can understand it, at least partially. Granted, it is probably beyond my ken to truly understand the experience of another individual, and each person - no matter how much alike me or different from me they appear- is likely to differ from me in some way significant enough to present a barrier to me truly understanding their point of view. I do get that and accept it.

Here's what I get - in America today, all other things being equal, a white male is likely to be hired first, earn more, and have fewer obstacles to success than a black male, white female or black female will. I also get that we have laws in place that should prevent that, but because they are implemented by, followed to some extent by and ignored by people who have well learned prejudices about people who differ from the larger group each person is a member of (and to some extent defines themselves as) they don't remedy the conditions they address as well as they were designed to, all good intentions aside. I also understand that unless we discuss where the differnces are, the failings of our efforts to overcome those differences and what can possibly be done to minimize those failings, we might as well be back 40 years in the past in our race and gender relations.

Oh, and I do not believe you were suggesting we should accept the argument that would preclude those discussions and efforts to understand and change the assumptions that have perpetuated the differences I believe exist between our respective groups.

Patsi, I didn't. My smart ass comment above was making fun of what I see as hyperbole on the issue. Stillettos, eh?

Years ago there was some sort of tribal group coming to petition the powers that be in Washington. NPR learned of their arrival and arranged a meeting with the delegation's spokesman.

It was a short interview that went something like this, "Sir, what do Indians think about the issue behind your petition?"

To which, the spokesman replied, I have no idea what Native Americans think about the issue. I am here strictly on behalf of my tribal nation. I have a sense of what my nation believes, but I can't extend those beliefs to all Native Americans."

MD may be able to speak for the people in his cohort, just as I may be able to speak for elderly white enlisted AF retirees living in South Carolina. I can't speak for AF officers, or Army sergeants major. And MD should be wise enough to know that he can't put the stamp of his beliefs on all African Americans.

I think the problem here is that Bill Clinton did think he was with the African American community. He actually had the audacity to think that if he was successful in enacting programs which helped minorities, if he befriended and hired minorities, if he supported the election of minorities, if he tried to insure that minority voices were heard, that in turn they would give his choice for President (in this case his wife) a fair hearing and it she was the most qualified candidate then they would support her. Instead the African American community went whole heartedly for one of their own without a thought to Bill Clinton. What made it worse was that they also slurred his lifetime of achievement by suggesting that he was a racist.

I cannot imagine why he finds this offensive and hurtful. I can see why he is now not a friend to Jim Clyburn. A friend may disagree with you but never stabs you in the back. I think this says more about Jim Clyburn and his ambitions than it does about Bill Clinton.

jo,

I think it broke his heart.

"Stilettos, eh?"

Ha! Actually, chartreuse sandals are more my style....I haven't worn stilettos in years....

Hey John, the lead a candidate has in a large state would only skew a poll like the Gallup daily tracking poll if the design of the poll's sampling failed to take that into account. There is a description of the poll's survey methods at the daily tracking poll page on the gallup site that might give you a hint as to whether that is the case. I'll tell you that the sampling error Gallup claims is 2% or less, but the poll has varied by as much as 9 points over the past couple of weeks, and I believe that voters' actual opinions probably haven't varied that much in that period.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/109312/Gallup-Daily-Obama-46-McCain-44.aspx

Yeah, anytime someone says, "I don't care what other people think", or something to that effect, they are lying, because if the genuinely did not care, they wouldn't make that statement in the first place, or any statements at all, for that matter.

flatus, one would hope.

One of Dooty's favorite sites, Crooks & Liar's, has an article on what today's anniversary is....

http://www.crooksandliars.com/

champ, I'd venture to say that if someone expresses that they don't care what you think, they have to be willing to accept you returning the favor. Tends to make conversation useless IMO. Of course there's always the weather to talk about - it doesn't care whether we understand it, and no matter how much we think we understand it, it's not not subject to change.

Pats, lol at the chartreuse sandals. Being forced to guesswith those being the 2 footwear options for you, I would have guessed correctly.

Hillary on putting name in noimnation at Convention

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8gdU_1MM44

Well, I care what other people think, whether they do or not. I found Mr. D's posts very interesting and informative. I think they are illustrative of a black segregationist mentality, which contradicts what I feel is a fallacious melting-pot utopia; such notions of utopia used against guilty white liberals in order to force them to make cultural concessions. I want to believe Mr. D's perspective is not endemic to a majority of the black American community, but to be honest, I think it is. Doesn't bode well for the future. All of this so-called racial progress is a ruse, in my opinion.

Well, the implications of Mr. D's assertions have induced enough depression in me to motivate me to get the hell out of here and go to the beach, which I was feeling too lazy to do up until this point; so thanks, Mr. D.

Have a good day.

Why Wall Street Loves Obama.

This is one of the most unusual article I have read about Obama and his politics,
Here is a quote

"But the “inner Obama” is something else. He paints himself as a grassroots leader, but his positions are close to those of John McCain and George Bush.
He helped renew the Patriot Act and widen spying powers under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) — giving telephone companies immunity for violating the law. He wants to broaden Bush’s “faith-based” initiative funneling social service money to churches. Claiming to oppose the Iraq War, he consistently votes to fund it, and hedges about getting out soon. He peddles the shameful fiction of the U.S. as a beacon of light in the world.

Obama is from a layer of managers and politicians of color and their female counterparts who benefited from the liberation movements but subscribe to the system. Their role is to keep women and minorities “in line.” Workers often get worse treatment from them than white bosses or bureaucrats can get away with. Like Condoleezza Rice, Colin Pow­ell, and Latino Governor Bill Richardson, Obama is here to tell people of color, women and workers to “get over” their grievances.

http://blackstarnews.com/?c=135&a=4745

Bow -- re; your post of 3:24 -- that's what blackagendareport.com has been saying all along.

Flatus,
Leave us Indians out of this! LOL

"Hillary on putting name in noimnation at Convention

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8gdU_1MM44 "

Jamie, I like that clip. Every time I hear Mrs Clinton speak these days, I become more and more impressed with her. She would have added a tremendous amount of grace and gravitas to the White House..

Champ; 1:28 pm...... I'm with you, those are exactly my thoughts. I was under the mistaken impression that this was about choosing an AMERICAN president, not an African -American president, silly me.......

I'm so sick of the bulls**t and 2 , I said 2, very bad candidates. McCain is 4 more years of Bush lite, and Obama will be spending all his time putting out race fires and how that's going to help the rest of us, I haven't figured out.

The country is going to hell a handbasket - did anyone see the "Fall of the Roman Empire" and all the parties can offer is an old man and an arrogant punk. Thanx very much, you stinking POLITICIANS, you...........

Rita

champ
Taking a break from the heat.

"I want to believe Mr. D's perspective is not endemic to a majority of the black American community, but to be honest, I think it is."

Fortunatly for the AA comunity it is not. But it does seem more persistant among the AA Intellegensia.
They aren't the ones trying to solve the problems just the ones talking. The interesting thing locally is the ones who used to play those games in urban politics are losing out. I give credit to Emanuel Cleaver, my current congressman. He taught the black community how to cross over and get out of the rut they were in. they could win more by being inclusive.

Jack

Champ, I don't agree that this racial progress stuff is a ruse. I watch my son interact effortlessly with both rich and poor white and black kids in school and athletics in a way that his grandparents would never have approved of or even believed was possible. Race doesn't even seem to figure in, except that he measures his athletic achievement - at least in basketball - by how well he fits in as a player with the black kids because by and large the best players he knows are black. And the kids who have left his little catholic school who he misses the most - except when they get to play on the same teams in rec leagues - are his black friends. It isn't that he doesn't recognize that there are differences, it's just that he doesn't seem to have any preconceived notions about how kids who aren't like him are (and this extends to hispanic and oriental kids in his school, etc. as well). I hope I'm seeing the future of racial progress in his generation.

Thanks, Pogo. I had previously submitted my specific question through the "Contact Us" route on the Gallup site. I have since gotten a confirmation that they received it. They've been good about responding in the past. I will share the actual response when received.

pp,

What has you thinking that mccain is bush lite? mccain was a neocon leader long before Jesus came to babybush in a midnight vision with orders to invade Iraq. mccain was grafting off charles keating before babybush got off cocaine. The mccain corruption and lunacy are bone deep. It would be more appropriate to call mccain the 2d Coming of W, or the 3d Coming of dick nixon.

Bad news, pogo. Your kid is going to grow up.

Ok, no more talking to me please, just because I want to hit the road without feeling compelled to respond. Somebody quote a poll or something.

I just got a strange e-mail newsletter, a HuffPo product called OffTheBus, sent to me from democracyinaction.org. It's strange in that while it has English titles for its articles, the text appears to be Latin. It was the June 26 edition. Here's the first teaser.

"The View From Abroad: Michelle Obama No Baby Mama - by Jillian York
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. Pellentesque nisi. Nulla eu velit vel felis vehicula molestie. Aliquam et diam. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. Morbi tristique eros sed enim. Curabitur eu ante eget dolor aliquet sagittis.

That is Latin, right? Did they have buses in ancient Rome?

champ - enjoy the beach - I hope he doesn't - and don't answer.

xrepublican;..3:36 pm.....I bow to your X-republican expertise, but what does it really matter, I hope your not going to try and tell me that Daley and Chicago politics are squeaky clean......

"Race doesn't even seem to figure in, except that he measures his athletic achievement - at least in basketball - by how well he fits in as a player with the black kids because by and large the best players he knows are black."

Pogo -- my kids both had more black than white friends in junior high and high school. My son's experience was much like yours...sports played a big role.

Harold Meyerson - as usual - excellent.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/05/AR2008080502930.html

Rez
Which interview was that?

Jack,
Now that the dust has settled I guess it was the Kate Snow interview. MD posted a link about it above. Martin had a similar take although he was not the pundit I saw (he was white).This place is like a ammo dump. Toss in a match and run. lol
Jamie had it correct when she posted above about cut and paste journalism being criminal.
I guess I'll go to GMA and watch the interview :-)

"Jack, I was listening to one pundit who found that WJC interview extremely odd,. . . I haven't watched it. . yet."

Good afternoon all ... taking a day off from genealogy and thought I'd venture back into political thought for a while.

On the subject of Bill Clinton, my take on the situation is that Sen Obama and his surrogates went out of their way to diminish President Clinton's accomplishments as well as to portray him as a hitherto unnoticed racist. Yes, he's a big boy now, but even big boys can get their feelings hurt. Particularly difficult for a person from Hope, Arkansas.

Pats. LP doesn't have more black friends than white - there aren't enough black kids here for that, but it just doesn't seem to matter with him. Sports does figure in - both his middle school and high school basketball coaches will be black if he continues at his current school. They are both great guys who LP has played with on rec teams and at clinics for the past 4 or so years and who he admires tremendously - and they each have kids who are terrific little athletes and are just good kids with great parents and who LP loves to hang with. Ironically, I met his middle school coach - who also coached his AAU team last year - when his youngest son was on the YMCA team I helped coach 4 years ago. Best set of hands and eyes I've ever seen on a 6 year old. I told the head coach we'd be reading about that kid in a few years, and I still believe it.

Chicago politics are considerably cleaner than they were when William Hale 'Big Bill' Thompson ran on the platform, "Bust King George in the Snoot," and the campaign costs were picked up by the O'Bannion and Capone gangs.

Thompson's first mayoralty co-incided with the Hanover Club's incitement of the great race riot in the 'red' summer of 1919, during which dozens of people were murdered and hundreds were injured. This riot, which started at an informally segregated beach with the stoning of a black man who swam across the invisible demarcation line, is considered the worst riot in the the history of Illinois. Richard J. Daley was treasurer of the Hanover Club and rose to political prominence at that time.

Suggestions that Obama comes out of a corrupt Chicago political system forget the great cleansing that Mayors Byrne and Washington accomplished, with the assistance of the DoJ's Operation Greylord. The Chicago Dems of today are far cleaner than the downstate republican mob.

Well, you kids have fun - I have to run along.

Sorry, politicallpissed, I meant to address that to you.

Rez

here is the interview.

http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=5515452

It doesn't give you the GMA cut and paste but they took their video from it.
Note the I'm not a racist came after a lot of questions.

Jack

Jack

Maggi,
Are you still here?

Maggi,

We were talking about you earlier today, wondering why you haven't been around. Hope you come back when more are here. Let us know what you've been up to. We really miss your input.

Did you see jo's 2:50 post?
It was nice, being reminded of all Bill Clinton has done during his life. I agree with you about his feelings being hurt during the primary.

Are you into genealogy now? Hope you'll come back when more are here. Tomorrow mornng?

Well, the implications of Mr. D's assertions have induced enough depression in me to motivate me to get the hell out of here and go to the beach, which I was feeling too lazy to do up until this point; so thanks, Mr. D.

Have a good day.

Posted by: champ | August 6, 2008 3:24 PM

Is it enough depression to drink the kool-aid?

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/ea0b05d406

It's time for the Republican Party... The Change you DESERVE !!!

You've probably already seen this, but I got an email from Texas today...

The George W Library will include:

The Hurricane Katrina Room, which is still under construction.

The Alberto Gonzales Room, where you won't be able to remember anything.

The Texas Air National Guard Room, where you don't even have to show up.

The Walter Reed Hospital Room, where they don't let you in.

The Guantanamo Bay Room, where they don't let you out.

The Weapons of Mass Destruction Room, which no one has been able to find.

The National Debt room which is huge and has no ceiling.

The "Tax Cut" Room with entry only to the wealthy.

The "Economy Room" which is in the toilet.

Admission: Republicans: free; Democrats: $1,000 or 3 Euros.

"Relations between the U.S. and Pakistani militaries and intelligence services, supposedly close allies against al Qaida, the Taliban and other terrorist constructs, have gotten so bad that officials on both sides are slugging it out through the press"

http://washingtonbureau.typepad.com/nationalsecurity/

Earlier here some of you commented on how awful "Morning Joe" is.
It is dreadful. The all-knowing Mika and the no-tie (Mr. Cool) Joe Scarbucket...simply unwatchable...it makes me cringe when I stop in for a second. See, Imus has been gone most of the summer as RFD-TV and ABC radio just let him go do his thing at the Imus Ranch for Children with Cancer and Other Life-Threatening Diseases.
He's supposed to be back Monday...we'll see...because he supposedly re-set the schedule so he will be on during the Denver doings in a few weeks.
I can't stand anything on morning TV! I just flip on the XM 202 XL station and listen to Opie & Anthony unless they get so disgusting on a topic...then it's just espn SportsCenter....

whskyjack,

I think babybush is still holding the torch for Musharaff.

Dex -- C-Span is usually okay. Although it's hit and miss -- some unbelievably knowledgeable callers as well as some idiots....

10 years is the time it takes to bring off shore oil into production, or at least that is the number being thrown around. According to this industry editorial the oil can be drilled and put on the market in 2. The rest of the time it takes is for the federal government to prepare the leases and put them on the market.

http://www.investors.com/editorial/IBDArticles.asp?artsec=16&issue=20080718

Jack

xrepublican;...4:27 pm..... With respect, I'm not suggesting Obama comes out of a corrupt system in Chicago, I'm saying it........

As for the downstate repugs being worse, well, they all have tunnel vision, all they can see is the bottom line ......... of course they are more corrupt, they've had longer to work at it.........

xp

It looks like another Katrina. What the Paki security/ military are pushing is we are supporting the Indians and are an enemy not an ally.

Jack

Patsi; 5:03 pm......Very neat post, you must read too, you have an imagination.......

Bill Clinton interview........When they wake up to the fact that they need him(respect around the world)... I hope he makes them beg!!!!!!!....

exrep

I don't know why they think we support the Indians after all Bush is a well know cowboy.

Ok I tried to resist, I'm weak what can I say.

Jack

Chloe

MSNBC has been playing that "Bill Clinton's feelings are hurt" interview all day. The chop in the edit actuallly crackles. It is totally dishonest. They portray him as not supporting Obama when the quotes are actually quite supportive. They just want the Clinton bashing to continue.

I really hate the fact that Pat Buchanan is sounding like me. I've spent so many years really disliking him, but he is right. Naming anyone other than Hillary for VP is Vanilla, white bread, boring and shows a lack of self confidence on the part of Sen. Obama.

Jamie

There was no real news today

Guantanamo jury gives mixed verdict on Bin Laden's driver

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/46583.html

"still holding the torch for Musharaff"

The new Suskind book talks about an interview with Bhutto shortly before her death saying that the lack of support from Bush was dangerous.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0808/05/sitroom.02.html

politicallypissed,

Chi Dem politics is certainly rough and tumble.

On the republican side, the ryan (gov) gang got prison sentences and and a chance to read the literature left on the walls by all those long departed Dems.

whskyjack,

Are we? I like Greg Mortenson's book, "3 Cups of Tea."
It has a few kind words for Musharaff, very few for US Intelligence. None for the Paki Ruling Class. I hope your Katrina analogy is overdrawn, but I fear you are right on target.

Gotta feed Sweetie. G'night all.

"I really hate the fact that Pat Buchanan is sounding like me. I've spent so many years really disliking him, but he is right. Naming anyone other than Hillary for VP is Vanilla, white bread, boring and shows a lack of self confidence on the part of Sen. Obama." Posted by: Jamie

Jamie,
I know exactly what you mean. Sometimes Pat Buchanan makes so much sense, then other times he starts sounding like a complete kook again. When he gets in the total Republican mode, he gets hard to listen to.

People getting tired of hearing about Obama?

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080806/NEWS15/80806052/&imw=Y

Corey,
It's only 48% that are tired of hearing about Obama.

It must be OOS (Obama Overload Syndrome). There is no cure, but it is treatable. It does require immediate steps:
No TV
No radio except Beautiful Muzak Stations
No internet
No Text messaging
No newspapers
No non-fiction books
and of course
Nobama!

Oops...Morgan Freeman is getting a divorce:

http://www.usmagazine.com/morgan-freeman-wife-splitting-after-twenty-four-years

Bowman, I don't text message anymore. Not since I saw the trouble it got Kwame Kilpatrick in! LOL!

And I thought he was just in a car wreck. Now divorce, I hope they don't chase him around like they did Paris & Brittney. Bet he won't be doing any Obama commercials soon.

I wonder how good his health insurance is. I hope he is well covered.

notice there has been no mention of the "female companion" who was in the car wreck.

It must have been his "niece". Too bad she couldn't have helped with the driving.

Barack Obama's national Muslim outreach coordinator has resigned amid a controversy of over his connections to a man who the Justice Department named as an unindicted co-conspirator in the racketeering trial last year of several alleged Hamas fund-raisers.

Oh no, not another one!

Call and be sympathetic about his health and marriage and then don't pass on any inside info you get until it becomes public.

Private "I'm in the know" gloating is fun too. :-)

"He was driving a 1997 Nissan Maxima belonging to a 48 year-old woman named Demaris Meyer, who was described as the veteran actor's friend."

Miss Meyer, who works for Fed Ex, was able to leave hospital without any serious injury.

First, the Joker, then Batman, now Lucius Fox. who's next?

Must be a curse on this edition.

That is too Inside Baseball. I hadn't seen the movie so I had to Google Lucius Fox. Pop Culture meltdown.

I did too Bow to find the exact character name lol

The daily Lehrer

The element song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYW50F42ss8

on the other end of the sophistication spectrum

The daily HeeHaw
Junior Samples

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeDX6ESys10

Jack,

I was just talking with a guy at work about He Haw today.

I haven't looked at the the you tube however, the number is BR-549.

dropped an "e" first time ever I swear.

on a totally different axis

The daily Spike Jones

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jagUvT_Yiw

"Barack Obama's national Muslim outreach coordinator has resigned amid a controversy of over his connections to a man who the Justice Department named as an unindicted co-conspirator in the racketeering trial last year of several alleged Hamas fund-raisers."

Washington Note has a piece on it...

http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/

More Paris?

How Paris Hilton’s McCain response came about

“McCain made one huge mistake. He drifted into the world of pop culture. And that’s Paris’ world. She owns that world,” he said. “So now he gets the blowback.”

http://marquee.blogs.cnn.com/2008/08/06/how-paris-hiltons-mccain-response-came-about/

Kay Kayser

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TE5lI6eOcgg&feature=related

http://www.kaykyser.net/band.html

Why settle for offering the VP spot to Lieberman when McCain can offer it to Hillary?

Not sure, but I think you got the wrong video Jamie

Hillary wouldn't take the offer.

Lieberman might.

Patsi
Looks like Steves comment stirred up some anger. &0 replys so far and he usually gets around 10 or 12.

Jack

Jack -- Clemens is an interesting guy, doncha think?

Lieberman would take the offer if it had a snake in it.

Rez

It just reenforces the McCain ad.

Did you see the Mccain response.
Here it is
"Paris Hilton might not be as big a celebrity as Barack Obama, but she obviously has a better energy plan,"

They aren't worried, it just keeps the "Obama is a light weight message" before the public. free publicity gatta love it if your McCain.

Jack

Patsi

He is, I don't always agree with him but I do try to read his site on a regular basis. I wished I live in the DC area, I would like to attend some of the things he puts together, they always look interesting.

Jack

how does olberman explain the fact that he stole letterman's bit about throwing a piece of paper and it breaks glass.......because the guy with the glass breaking sound box is owned by NBC?

seems like olberman would be a little self conscious about it.........he must be kinda obtuse or something........

ya gotta love it.......the only camera rush limbo can get on looks like somebody's homemade videos......lol

Sturge

I think that is an older stunt than letterman.

Jack

well, of course it is......I mean the guy with the sound box had been an NBC sound man for years.....he was an old guy......but letterman put it on the map as a bit.....it's like nbc told letterman when he quit......which they did......you can go but all your bits belong to us.....they even tried to steal his TOP 10 list......

I believe the term by NBC was "Intellectual Property", Sturge.

ha......well, he fought 'em to a standstill over his Top 10 list........so they gave olberman the glass bit..........lol

they're snotty that way.......Imus leaves so they give his show to Scarbo......

I wonder what they tried to steal from Phil Donahue

On Dave's first show for CBS he was doing his monolgue and somebody came from off stage and took the cue cards away from the stage hand. He turned to Dave and said, "I'm sorry, but these last two jokes are the intellectual property of NBC." Dave looked puzzled and then Paul and the band started playing.

lol

Everyone probably saw this on Drudge already, but:

Sen. Hillary Clinton Seeks Democratic Convention Voice
Sen. Hillary Clinton Not Ruling Out Having Name Put Up for Vote in Denver

Sen. Hillary Clinton told a gathering of supporters last week that she's looking for a "strategy" for her delegates to have their voices heard and "respected" at the Democratic National Convention -- and did not rule out the possibility of having her name placed into nomination at the convention alongside Sen. Barack Obama's.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=5528104&page=1

But behind the united front, says an adviser, "it's not a great relationship, and it's probably not going to become one." In private conversations, associates say, Clinton remains skeptical that Obama can win in the fall.
http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1830119,00.html

nite

dirty??

Those little love pats?
Now that is some major whine.

lol
Jack

The problem is that the new Dirty Politics McCain doesn't see himself as a civilian. He sees himself as so honorable that he can do no wrong. That was why he felt free to abandon his first wife and his children to chase a young blond who had 100 million dollars. He was a hero! He deserved a good lay and a good bank account! Why should he put up with a wife who had had a disfiguring accident! And these days why should he lose to an uppity black man who never belonged to his private military club?

nice passage

the first wife who fought so hard for his release and then became terribly handicapped from a car accident......Hero's get the sexy blonde and the money, right? The little woman was just too too in the way......poor mac......

ah....you confuse anti-mccain with anti-military......you tell me theyre the same, I draw conclusions.....

years ago, Mac did what a soldier must and is expected to do with great honor........does it buy him an automatic pass for life? Not in this world........there is the little thing about how and what you do with it.....I'll take one Max Cleland over any number of McCains.

Here is the full Hillary statement as recorded when she said it. I put it up earlier today. She fully endorses Obama and is seeking a way for her delegates to be recognized and respected.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/08/obama-goes-to-paris.html#comment-124995

Why does the left love to feast on this antimilitary type of crap.

Just a guess.

Like anything you're constantly being hit over the head with. Criticism of anything military gets an assertion of being unpatriotic.

Who on this green earth does not realize that McCain is another Bob Dole? He lost it SC 2000. he lost it all. It's over.........Iced Tea, dog track, and back porch time........Endgate.

No confusion sturge it is just another variation on the "they all are like that because the military brainwashes them"
It is saying, he is bad because he is military, not because he is just bad.

Jack

I think McCain must be seeing a light at the end of the tunnel.......he's hoping for peace with honor.......

your flag decal wont get you into heaven anymore....it's all fullup of soldiers from your dirty little war.

--john prine

No, Jack.....with all due respect.....it is not that, and never has been......you think anyone would talk about chuck hagel that way? Or Bob Kerry? Or John Kerry? or Max Cleland?.....oh wait.......wow.....who was it trashing the military when they were trashing john kerry and al gore and Max....because they went and did their duty......

Who trashed General Shinseki?

Who trashed General Karpinski?

Name some more of those generals and Admiral Fallon who have been trashed over this thing which McCain wishes would just by golly go on forever?

.does it buy him an automatic pass for life? Not in this world.

So true. In fact it seems many like him assert their staus as an exemption from criticism.

shut up, bonehead.

not for Rez or Jack

Sturge
all those are specific attacks.
A good chunk of the left have a kneejerk reaction to the military in general. That was what the writer was deliberately playing with.
It does exist, not with everybody but with enough of the left for it to rear its ugly head from time to time.
I've seen it on this blog on occasion. The one that comes to mind is a character that wondered through and stayed a week or 2. He question the morality of anyone joining the military.

Jack

Mongo

we all knew who bone head was.
Or I did anyway.

Jack

Yeah, Jack, they do. And then they wonder what took us so long in saving their miserable asses.

Mongo go and punch out horse now.

"I'll take one Max Cleland over any number of McCains."

Why, Sturg? I'm just talking from memory that may be bad, but wasn't he wounded in a freak, dumb accident? I don't recall him having done anything special during his service.

But, he did do his service, I'll give him credit for that. And I've never heard him complain about his injuries. And, I'll never forgive the Repug machine that mauled him last time around.

I could be wrong.......but I think Max has a strong record of clearly just service towards the betterment of the soldiers' lots, both during and after conflict.....ie... I think max is an honorable man......i think mccain is not, and his aim is to now further the ideals engendered by the [expletive deleted] cheney bush administration.....further the ideals, but not having any ideals of his own......as is shown by his actions after SC 2000. Endgate.

Flatus
A story
When we were ramping up for the first gulf war, I managed to get called an unpatriotic peacenik and a brain washed military warmonger within the same 24hr. All I was trying to do was point out truths.
I was sitting in a bar and made a point that the war was really about oil, a legitimate national interest imo. Got called by some old vet several unpolite names that amounted to peacenik. No big deal, I've been called names before.
The next night I was attending a poetry reading given by the Bad Poets Society( my name for them i forget theirs) I basically got in the same discussion and pointed out that the war was about oil and Saddam was trying to get us by the short hairs.
The young man i was talking to told me that Saddam didn't intend to invade kuwait and that it was an accident. My eyes widened a little and a grin came across my face I said "For it being an accident he did a damn good job of it."
About that time The lady in charge of the group, the head bad poet herself, walked over to the young man and said "don't try to argue with him, he has been brainwashed, the military does that to them"

Such is my lot in life.

but Flatus I don't even think the folks at the BPS, ever wondered much about anything except may how to get someone to buy the a cup of high dollar coffee.

BTW Flatus i have never served in the military but do have family members who have and do.

Jack

Jack

From the same F Schaeffer piece. Some poignant words.

"If he wins by lies and deceit he'll govern that way. McCain will make Nixon look sweet. When it suits him McCain will do to us what he did to his first wife, just as he has abandoned his promise of taking the high road in this election."

"Such is my lot in life."

Jack, you may have never served, but you get it.

Jack......I have much sympathy for and personal experience of the dichotomy of treatments you received at the hands of different factions in our society.......that's a true fact......

as far as I'm concerned looking at viet nam and iraq.......the soldiers were and are getting screwed right, left, center, and from behind. There has not been a champion for them since the death of L. Mendel Rivers in around 72

If

That is a big word in front of all that accusation Rez.

The same can be said of Obama and some of his attacks on McCain. Nobody clean, no virgins at this stage of the game. So far it has been very mild in the attacks. That is why I had to laugh at the over the top writing.

Jack

ooops......Mongo stupid.

Forget to punch out horse.

anyway.......what kind of military guys are bush, rumsfeld, cheney, wolfowitz, perle, andy card ETC ETC

jesus....and mccain wants to run on their shit?

say it aint so, joe.........

L Mendel died in a plane crash, by the way.....he was not one to stand by idly and silently while soldiers were dying for nothing half way across the world......I mean once he decided that that was what was happening.

Jack, Well obviously that what I happen to think about him based on a little history there and don't have that feeling about Obama.
The shadow only knows.

"as far as I'm concerned looking at viet nam and iraq.......the soldiers were and are getting screwed right, left, center, and from behind"

About the only thing that Vietnam and Iraq have in common IMO, is how poorly the military was served by the civilian leadership. The invasion of Iraq has set loose a chain of events that will cost many more solidiers live in years to come, This will happen no matter who is president.

Jack

dulce et decorum est pro patria mori.

once that becomes not true......the country better shake something up big time.

yes.....Hillary, 08.

I have to go milk the horse.

Sturge, Rez, Flatus

Fun discussion but its bedtime for me

take care me amigos

Night

About the only thing that Vietnam and Iraq have in common IMO, is how poorly the military was served by the civilian leadership.

Yes, but.......that's quite enough for a good solid comparison.......

Kennedy was a repug?

The NATIONAL ENQUIRER is releasing the photograph that the world has been waiting for – the first-ever picture of John Edwards and his love child!

“These photos are damning proof,” said a source close to the situation.

“He’s been caught lying about his affair with Rielle and their love child for many months – and now the proof against him is piling up.

“His elaborate coverup is unraveling at the seams.”

http://hillbuzz.wordpress.com/2008/08/06/looks-just-like-him-photos-of-obama-surrogate-john-edwards-with-love-child-and-mistress/

KATU/Survey USA

Obama 48
McCain 45

While Dems have won Oregon since Dukakis won, the margins are small with the exception of Bills 9 pt. win.
Should go Dems,,but who knows...

OD,
Obama takes Or re gon in a landslide!

John Edwards awarded 'Father of the Year'

"Edwards accepted his June 27, 2007, honor from the Father's Day/Mother's Day Council exactly eight months before the child was born Feb. 27, 2008, according to a birth certificate obtained by the Charlotte Observer.

On July 23, Edwards denied the recent allegations and called the Enquirer story "tabloid trash."

"It's completely untrue, ridiculous," he said. ... So the story's just false."

http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=71460

"... the following was Edwards' response to CBS News anchor Katie Couric's question about whether voters should care if a presidential candidate is faithful to his spouse:

Of course. I mean, for a lot of Americans – including the family that I grew up with, I mean, it's fundamental to how you judge people and human character – whether you keep your word, whether you keep what is your ultimate word, which is that you love your spouse, and you'll stay with them. ... I think the most important qualities in a president in today's world are trustworthiness – sincerity, honesty, strength of leadership. And – and certainly that goes to a part of that."

http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=71618

Patsi - I hate to say it but I have thought I recognized some similarties, also. I'm not positive, tho, but am on alert and watching. It's one of the things that has me worried but it won't change my vote because it just can not. I just hate the idea of another four years of shuddering. I have NEVER felt this hopeless before, and just keep telling myself that something has to change and get a little better.

I know exactly what you mean Bethy. Any Democrat is better than what we've had. But I've seen the party devaluing its base like never before. And I don't think we will do our causes any favors by just being glassy-eyed supporters of the new "controllers" and accepting every decision as heavenly inspired. That's how the bushbots were and look what we've got.

I just hope Obama's waffling on everything he threw against Hillary is just the dirty politics I think it is. Because if he really believes in government spying then we've really got a problem.

Patsi,

"controllers" that is strong language. I prefer "overlords".