Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Full agreement. If a sexual escapade were the worst thing ever done by a public servant, we would be lising in paradise.

Edwards will pay for the pain and embarrassment for his wife, family and self. A time out doing good works and attending to his family might be in order, but at some point if he can be useful to an Obama administration then that should be the decision of the President not the civic blue noses.

Craig...I love you for this Trail Mix! And I'm with Jamie...in full agreement! If there's any way Edwards can be of service to this COUNTRY, not to an individual president, I hope he'll be asked to serve. Still think he'd make a dynamite Attorney General!

ditto craig, and ditto jamie, and ditto Harbor and myself on the tail end of the last thread.

I also think people who go thru those things and do the right thing afterwards as clinton seems to have done and edwards as well only come out stronger and less hypocritical......they grow in stature and maturity, shall we say.

does this mean we have to give gingrich, larry craig, livingston, henry hyde, gary hart, and foley, etc a break also?

lol

sturg...

Went back and read your comment on the last thread. I've heard several people make comments about how there always seemed to them to be 'something' about Edwards, so I can't discount that statement. I always put it down to his almost too-perfect looks, but here he is...and here we are...sad over the whole sorry mess. But I think there would be some redemption if we could grow up enough as a nation to stop throwing people away for their mistakes. If any of his talk about straightening out WA, or pushing back against big business was sincere, we need John Edwards and we need his considerable skills.

Apparently not all infidelities are the same. If the public forgives him and doesn't want to hold it against him, fine with me. But, ask Gary Hart and few others that I can't recall now because they've have basically been written off.

Harbor.......and THAT'S the part I always DID like about him............

Gary Hart was and is a lightweight who for a time could fool the foolish..

Oh, and sturg...I agree that the fact that Elizabeth's cancer may or may not have been in remission is totally irrelevant. John should shut up while he's behind on that one. What a stupid thing to say.

How many women did mccain sleep with while he was still married to his first wife and before he married cindy?

Thanks for a dose of common sense, Craig. I'm not ready to disqualify all people who have had an affair from public service. There are very few saints living among us. Most people have their flaws, and make mistakes. The question is does the good outweigh the bad... Can the person still provide valuable service despite the flaws and mistakes?

PS - Did you see the 400m relay at the Olympics - Go USA!

How many women has McCain slept with since marrying Cinday? And does that affect his presidential skills...or lack thereof, depending on your persuasion?

Oops! Cindy....

i dont think mccain's sleeping around is exactly the issue which applies to his ability to lead......it's the fact that he dumped the first wife for a younger rich girl after all the first wife had done for him because she was no longer the beauty queen she was when she married him......that goes to the character of the man, an accurate depiction of the way he looks at things in general.........No character, in my estimation, which his further actions after SC 2000 primary goes on to prove.

he didnt learn and he didnt grow.......he opted for the money and the honey, and didnt care about anything else as if the money and honey were somehow his "due". Even his close friends (nancy and ronald reagan, for instance) thought it was a reprehensible despicable action.

Craig,

THANK YOU!

Yes, just what I've been saying.

NO ONES are the perfect couple. And the hypocrisy virus thing in DC is *L*.

I should start a "Cheater's List". Fanny Flagg, Donna Rice & the men they loved. And Strom and Newt and, and, all the Kennedys and and all the Bushs, Dick Morris, etc.

tt

Tom Jefferson

tt

I've never met a financially secure, successful, handsome man who was faithful to his girlfriend or wife, period--whether a pol, a professor, an administrator, a writer, a doctor, an attorney, a musician, a CEO, a preacher, an athlete. . .
(but most of these men were very good at their professions).

I know a lot of people probably know of an exception to this, but I'm just
saying that this has been my experience.

I agree wholeheartedly, Craig. Thanks for applying the brakes. But I want to say something more. (Yes, I know I always do - did you think I wouldn't?)

Edwards may have always cheated on his wife, but if this is truly his first bad step, there is something I think should be kept in the mind of anyone forming an opinion.

I feel that there has been a pall of death over that family for quite a while now. They lost a son, which in itself has been enough to break entire families apart.
They have said their daughter asked for another sibling, and now she has two. After the death of their son, John was in a race for the White House, which is a bruising and ugly experience. He lost that race , and it wasn't long after that his wife was diagnosed with breast cancer. She is dealing with cancer but he is dealing with the likely death of a woman he seems to love very much.

It seems to be universally accepted now that sex is or can be a strong life-affirming action. To be blunt (or coarse, however you see it) making love with a deathly ill person seems to me to defy the imagination. Perhaps just to keep his sanity, he wanted or needed to have sex with a person who was healthy. They have all been living with the possibility of her death for a long time. She isn't the only one who is scared, and I'll bet sh'e be the first one to say so.

That sounds so cold but I don't mean it that way at all. I suppose only a person who has lived thru such a draining time can respond to my idea of what these people have been going thru. There is so much sadness in this story. I agree with Craig - give the whole Edwards family a break.

Of course, there might end up being some laws broken, and a public trust has been broken. Also, he might have a serious addiction to sex (and yes, I believe it exists - I know someone who had one), in which case it has to play out. I just think that without anything else being known, the whole family needs the country to calm down

I have to say this wasn't easy to write. I was hesitant to offend people or seem to be grossly insensitive, but I talked with my sister about this, and she agreed totally with me. I just had to say it.

No matter what, John Edwards will be back. Gary Hart has come back. As for Gingrich, he's back a little but not in public service, which is just as well. He was and has been flamboyant and defiant about how he has behaved. Henry Hyde -- as I said before, he is a powerful emetic.

I can add military pilots to my list of serial womanizers (the ones I
have met). Some Air Force pilots I used to know had a saying, "We're
faithful to our wives just as long as we can see the air base." As a fighter
pilot, I bet McCain lived closely by this motto.

Thoughtful post, bethy. I didn't find it insensitive at all. Just wanted you to know....

But I don't think there's anything here that can be stretched into the supposition that Edwards is a sex addict. I was married to one once. I doubt Elizabeth Edwards would stay around for that wild ride.

Thanks,harborwoman. I don't see him as a sex addict either, and I can't imagine that she would let it go if he were. From what she has shown so far, she'd probably make sure he got help. She works at problems, doesn't make political hay.

I may have a suggestion as to why the people around the Bushes were paying them no mind. I would hope they were secret service. Can you imagine if anything happened to THEM over there. That other poor family -
ye gods.

Maybe I am a rare or strange person, but in my book John Edwards should SUFFER!
He is an embarrasment to us men who try not to cheat.
Cheating on your wife is bad and is worse if you are a public figure. I mean, we all know and he knew more than anyone what he was doing, in the midst of a presidential bid. He knew he was going to run for office the second time... he even publicly criticized Bill Clinton...so

Come on peeps. John Edwards should be ashamed of himself and go into obscurity. I am saddened that everyone here seems to think that it is normal.
Fuck NORMAL.
I made the choice NOT to cheat on my girlfriends and I stuck by it. It is freaking difficult...I know. I lived it, but I kept my promise.
If the national enquirer didn´t run the story and kept with it, this no good flusy would have stayed with being the picture of pure marital bliss and chastized all who were not so fortunate as him to have it in the media.

Shame on John Edwards. He is off the radar for me.
And of course he is the babies father....This whole sham is distasteful.... Now the baby momma doesn´t want a paternity test...Geezzzzzzz....How dum does he think I am....

Yup, I am mad.

Jason, nice to have someone holier than thou around.

tt

Jason - I usually agree with you, but not on this. That being said, I understand your point of view completely.

I'm not saying it's normal - altho I'm not sure there is a normal in the fields of love and sex. I full accept the possibility that we don't know all there is to know, however, and so will take the stand which is better for my blood pressure and for my belief in kindness and fairness. They just won't let me do otherwise.

Good for you for being strong enough to meet your own standards There shoould be hundreds of million more like you.

Morning Jason,

I understand exactly how you feel. And, you're right, we've become far
too accustomed to condoning and reenforcing bad behavior in postmodern
America.

But, as I posted earlier, the majority of very successful, attractive men do
cheat and perhaps we shouldn't condemn them to everlasting banishment
and not allow them to practice/ pursue their chosen career forever.

Throughout history, great men have cheated on their partners. I'm not justifying it or saying they shouldn't be chastised, but what if one of these cheating guys was just about to discover a cure for cancer? Should we not allow him to continue his research?

I've lost a lot of respect for Edwards and I hate that he had a long term
affair when Elizabeth has terminal cancer and I don't like that Edwards
is paying Rielle Hunter hundreds of thousands of dollars, but I do
suspect Edwards is suffering and do I think there's still a chance he can redeem himself.

Hey bethyboo,

No problem if we don´t agree. As long as we keep it civil in discussion, and knowing you and most of you here on the board, that is not a problem.

You know Bethy, I dont see my way of living as special. What I do say is that people in the public eye have a special function. And they know it. Why keep doing things that hamper that. And no fuzz if ya fell for it. I mean we all can fall for it. The fact of the mater is that John Edwards would not have come forward if it weren´t for the National Enquirer (and I can´t believe they are credible, but here we are anno 2008...the national enquirer ran a true story), instead he would have kept his little we-are-the-perfect-amily-and-I-am-the-perfect-father status and critized others. That is what bothers me.
I cannot give him a break on that one....Sorry.

Start taking your responsibility Sir.
John almost got me fooled

True Marchia,

But the fact of the matter is that he lied and continued to lie to us, his constituents. I don´t give a rats ass if he cheated. True, I have to look at myself...and that is hard enough..hahahahaha

But I cannot pardon him for keeping it so long, and continuing to criticize others, while you know what you are doing...Come forward, be brave, be the man you pretend to be and confess.
Now all that he is left with is: "damn, John Edwards got caught cheating on his cancerous wife"
(sorry to put is so blunt)
As I said earlier, he should´ve stepped up to the pate earlier....

No break from my side on this one

Hi again, Jason,

I commend you on staying faithful to all your girlfriends, by the way!

One more point, I think Edwards is quite miserable, at the moment. His life's
work is falling apart---his reputation, and also, he was slated to have a prominent role at the Denver convention and Obama said on Friday that Edwards was out.

Good morning lovely people!

Craig, your comments are spot on, but I also think Jason has a point -- Edwards chastising others for doing what he did put himself at the fulcrum of hypocrisy.

Marcia, I think Edwards is mainly miserable at having been found out by the press.

Hi Alicia,

I agree. Edwards admitted that his ego ruled his judgment, at least
in regard to his affair. He didn't seem to care if he was found out. He thought
that his connections would shelter him--sort like that guy who volunteered to
say he was the father of Rielle's baby.

In a previous post, 3:33 a.m., I need to correct a typo in the last sentence:

"and I do think he can redeem himself."

I wonder how many members of the media were hesitant to report on this story thinking--"there but for the grace of God go I" or maybe moments of human weakness are alien to the DC press corps.

Betthy--I found your original comments very insightful. There have been bleak period in my life when you search for something to bring you back to the joy of life.
I guess my only problem is his criticism of BC. That is where he kind of looses me. Hypocrisy sure seems rampant with this type of ambition man. Also boy did he pick the wrong kind of woman--She is not going away. Also I now think the baby is probably his---You are right however, Craig , he still has enormous talents and should be allowed to contribute to the next administration. He will be a better man for all this in the end.

"if hypocrisy were a virus, just about everyone in Washington would be dead by now."

Ha! That's great!

"Cruel mistress bad-mouthed Elizabeth"

Rielle Hunter said, "Someday the truth about her (Elizabeth) is going to come out." And she said that Elizabeth gave out bad vibes. Also, Rielle disliked
Elizabeth because she thinks she got her fired from Edwards' campaign.

This info is from a Newsweek article.

You all are much more tolerant than I.

I think he should be hoisted by his own petard.

Hey Good morning all
I just read this one on Politico."7 worrisome signs for Obama" God how could McCain even have a shot at the Presidency this time around?

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12433.html

Oh, there's a great story [GORDO! pay attention!] just below the fold of today's Journal:
"They Say They Were Born in the U.S.A.
The State Department Says Prove It"

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121842058533028907.html?mod=hpp_us_pageone

Slightly left of center point of view of john Edwards.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2008/08/10/2008-08-10_john_edwards_is_a_liar_and_cheat_who_has-2.html?page=0

Media-wise, Edwards played this smartly by making the admission on the opening day of the Olympics. He also lucked out a bit, media-wise, due to the war between Georgia and Russia.

It's not his personal weakness that is a problem and it's not intially denying it. The problem is the level of cover-up & the money that changed hands (with or without his knowledge); he involved other people in this mess.

Pretty brazen of him to run for office after the fact, knowing what could happen to his family, not to mention his party if the news came out.

He may still have something to offer, but he has some rebuilding to do before he is in a position to offer anything of value.

Was actually proud of W speaking up to China about Sudan, religious freedom, etc. Also, glad he talked to Putin about Georgia...since Putin is still in charge. It's just too bad that we don't have a great diplomatic relationships (thanks Condi) and our standing in the world has been whittled away by Busch the past 7 years.

Oil is a 4-letter word.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080811/ap_on_re_eu/georgia_south_ossetia

You could see this coming a mile away. This is how Edwards' supporters will rally behind him and attempt to justify is actions: Some how it will be spun that it is Elizabeth's fault that John Edwards couldn't keep his pants on.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2008/08/10/2008-08-10_rielle_trashes_elizabeth_edwards_she_doe-2.html.

You could see this coming a mile away. This is how Edwards' supporters will rally behind him and attempt to justify is actions: Some how it will be spun that it is Elizabeth's fault that John Edwards couldn't keep his pants on.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2008/08/10/2008-08-10_rielle_trashes_elizabeth_edwards_she_doe-2.html.

Posted by: FryDaddy | August 11, 2008 7:47 AM

Sorry Fry,
I can´t seem to access this page....Do U have an alternate link?
Thanks

I always tell my husband that if he meets a woman and he wants to be with her, he should come home and tell me. I mean why should she only have the pleasure of knowing Jim through hot, crazy sex...expensive meals...getaway weekends??

I think the she should get to experience the "real" Jim. So I will gladly pack up his stinky cigars...dirty laundry...breathing machine...computer...golf clubs...poker table...all the dTV sports channels...favorite recipes/meal plans, etc...

I will gladly give her phone number to all his friends and his Mom.

I will gladly give her the phone numbers to Jim's doctor, dentist, chiropractor, massage therapist, favorite restaurants, etc...

I will gladly give her the directions to his favorite take-out restaurants, dry cleaners, etc...

Maybe I will even let him take the dog...HAHA!!

Let her have the true "Jim experience"...

When she calls me, in a week or so to come get him, I will gladly do so...

Why?

"Cause, I really, really love my "real" Jim... 8~)

Bushco not "Busch"

...and I forgot to add this one...

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i5TtajgUpSm7KY5jf-lCJGHBB-tAD92G1UO80

Fry - It's the Eve syndrome; always blame a woman. (We will see more of this in November when BO loses.)
Next, they will be blaming Elizabeth for going along with Johnny-boy running for office; she was complicit in it and it could've destroyed the party.

Jason,

Try this, http://www.nydailynews.com/news/index.html

There is a picture of the ever smiling John Edwards

"First of all, it happened during a period when [Elizabeth] was in remission from cancer."

So thoughtful of him.

Here is a story supporting the idea why we should have more women in public office.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2008/08/09/2008-08-09_john_edwards_and_other_hankypanky_pols_l.html

Craig...great post. I was thinking this same thing last night. I sure hate to lose someone of Edwards' caliber as a potential public servant.

On the other hand, what he did was monumentally stupid and it may take a few years in the doghouse for him to re-emerge. This coming January might be a bit too soon.

Also, think about how smart and capable Gary Hart was...and his scandal pretty much did end his political career, if memory serves. I think it took a few years for him to even show his face as an outsider in public policy debates after that.

Hi to all my pals here. I've been a bit busy, which is why I've been scarce. But I'm still keeping up with the threads. Loving all the great tunes -- especially Jamie, Sturge and Whskyjack's country music night the other night. Loved those Carter family videos!

Hey LushIs...re your 7:56 post: if you need someone to babysit YOU during your husband's week on the lam...you know who to call!

Craig says: Give Edwards a Break & asks:

"If his talents are deemed useful in a possible Barack Obama administration, for instance, why not?"

Now that would be an interesting development.

As to Mike Lupica's NYDaily News column--"John Edwards is a liar & cheat who has mastered the sleazy art of hypocrisy"

Do not see that this is a "slightly left of center point of view" at all.

The 5 unanswered questions posed alongside Lupica's column linger though:

1. What was Edwards doing meeting secretly for hours with Hunter in an LA hotel last month?

2. Who is the baby's father?

3. Why won't Hunter allow a paternity test?

4. Did Edwards lie about why Hutner ws put on the campaign payroll?

5. Did Edwards really not know Hunter was being paid off?

"Talk of John Edwards losing his public career forever "

I think we need to put this in perspective here. John Edwards has not had a public career for sometime. For the last 6 years his "public career" was running for president, which is over.
John is in a state of transition.
The people have spoken and they prefer him in the private or non profit sectors not in the public one. A multimillionaire should have no problem finding something worthwhile to do. It just may not have the ego soothing glare of attenton that being a candidate for president did.
In case you didn't notice I got over Edwards way back in 2004.

Jack

II don't much care what people do sexually between two consenting adults. I am sorry for the pain this must cause Elizabeth, I just wish he hadn't attacked Hillary so hard, things would look a lot different today if he had dropped out earlier.

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/08/10/how-john-edwards-helped-destroy-hillary/

Craig,

Way to lower the bar...!!!!!

I do not want John to suffer - but does he even know the truth himself. He is a loser.

Prayers for the Family and his wife.

He needs to continue to Fade into the sunset.

XOXOXOX @ LaL!!!!

What was his impact on HRC if he had not been in the race?

Poor HRC injured by two womenizers

"Finally last week, Edwards came forward and admitted to the affair, not because he thought it was the right or decent thing to do, but because he got caught by the National Enquirer, once again doing the work of the national mainstream media."

Hallelujah, Hallelujah
Hallelujah, Hallelujah

Oh so true, but you'll not find an the real answer as to why they didn't work the story. But we know the reason why. Like Edwards, the MSM are such hypocrites when it comes to reporting one of their favs when caught with their pants down. "It's a personal matter". Well hell most stuff in life is personal. If the MSM didn't report personal BS, the news papers would be reduced to 5 pages and TV news would be over in 5 minutes. The MSM thrives on personal tragedies.

Wolfson agrees on it's effect of the nominee as well.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5553013&page=1

imus now is calling for hrc nomination. said it to jeff greenfield this am and has repeated it several times.

lushislinda, think i read where jane fonda did something similar re ted turner and her replacement.

Craig, Lord Love You, You're just a Good Ol' Boy.

Sure, we forgive, sure we forget, sure, we will always appreciate Edwards, ... couldn't he have just chanelled that lust into the work he was doing with his anti-poverty foundation? Why pull the spouse of another candidate who's been wronged for this latest betrayal of political partnerships? Edwards chose to pontificate about the sins of WJC as a reason to choose HIM - or any other MALE - over his female opponent, yet all the while, his choices were a mockery of his judgement, fidelity and genteel status.
Sheer arrogance.
Birds of a feather....preening on the balcony while plotting in the back room.

Ping Pong- I think it is rather obvious what the effect would be, as their supporters had the same demographics

Wait, Craig you are genius!!

Your piece this AM regarding Edwards and let him go was a setup, a head fake – and it worked.
Question is what was smoked out?

patd,

For whatever it means, Imus also calls HRC, Satan. But it is the truth the more experience D candidate came in 2nd, maybe this floor vote at the D convention will wake up the PC Dems, and HRC will become the rightful nominee of the that party. We can only hope.

Oldseahag....

Seems clear the Edwards (gosh I do not want to use the graphic term -- ah here it goes) screwed Hillary also.

abc sub title: "Aides Say She Would Have Won Iowa if Edwards Affair was Exposed"

thanx for the link. oldsea, interesting vote percentage numbers to consider in that article.

Morning everyone. I've been at Hospice for the last 24 hours. I just came home to shower and shave. My Dad is still hanging on, but his breathing seems to be slowing down now. He's done nothing but sleep since Saturday. He opened his eyes for a few seconds yesterday morning, but that was it. More news later.

LOL
But not a Clinton bashing free zone.
Think I'll pass.

Jack

By The Denver Groups' calculation Obama's agreement to seat the original MI and FL results, Obama is only 49 pledged delegates ahead. Anyone got hope for a true Convention?

http://thedenvergroup.blogspot.com/

You are welcome patd, I know I've got hope and will contact my superdelegates this week to let them know exactly how I feel. I live in MA. Enough said.

"I think this President has shown a remarkable disrespect for his office, for the moral dimensions of leadership, for his friends, for his wife, for his precious daughter. It is breathtaking to me the level to which that disrespect has risen," - Patsi

Chloe and Patsi...
"I have trouble seeing a quote from '99 as representative of hypocrisy for a future act. Perhaps, at the time he made that statement, Edwards had no inclination at all toward cheating. Bottom line...we'll never know..but I can't label him hypocritical on the basis of that statement."
Posted by: harborwoman | August 10, 2008 11:44 PM
.......

Harbor,

The first thing I felt when I read your quote, was agreement, as in, yeah, you could think of it that way too. But the more I thought about it, the more I go back to my original opinion of it.

John was very clear in what he said. He knew how wrong infidelity was on every level. He was aware of how much Bill's infidelity hurt everyone around him (especially his wife and children).

John understood the consequences perfectly Until he got the urge. I haven't heard Bill (nor do I expect to hear him) come out and make a similar statement about John. (and he could, if he worded it right, pointing out he's learned from his mistakes, etc.).

You say he was completely innocent in '99, but I don't have any way of knowing when he began having affairs and then lied about them.

I'm with Sturge on this one.
There's always been something about him I couldn't put my finger on.

Something far more interesting than where John Edwards' dick has been.

"In a gambit with such low odds of success that traders question its legitimacy, someone wagered $1.7 million that Bear Stearns shares would suffer an unprecedented decline within days. Options specialists are convinced that the buyer, or buyers, made a concerted effort to drive the fifth-biggest U.S. securities firm out of business and, in the process, reap a profit of more than $270 million. "

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aLsfDbE1JU_E&refer=home

Jack

whiskyjack,

"But not a Clinton bashing free zone"

Great point.

Higher interest rates appear to be in our future.

"The bond vigilantes who've been missing in action under George W. Bush may be preparing for a return engagement once Barack Obama or John McCain takes office next year."

"Economists and traders say the prospects for increased government borrowing needed for either McCain or Obama to enact their proposals will again lead investors to shun Treasuries and push up interest rates. Ten-year yields are forecast to reach 4.63 percent by the end of 2009, according to a Bloomberg survey of 68 economists"

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=ayrMJ4R.bmLY&refer=home

Jack

"But if hypocrisy were a virus, just about everyone in Washington would be dead by now."

Boy Howdy ain't that the truth!

At 2:09 AM Prof Marcia said:

"I've never met a financially secure, successful, handsome man who was faithful to his girlfriend or wife, period . . ."

Conversely, being neither financially secure nor particularly handsome, I still remain faithful to my ex-wife ten years after we split up.

You can find my picture in your dictionary next to the definition of "unrequited."

The real race

"McCain needs to hold Ohio. No Republican has ever won the White House without winning Ohio.

Obama faces his own challenges in the state. Even his supporters worry that he's underperforming in what seems likely to be a Democratic year. But if he can take Ohio's 20 electoral votes, he could be on his way to the presidency"

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/226/story/46761.html

What Was Edwards Thinking?
By Eugene Robinson

I hope Edwards is finally leveling with us -- and with himself. I've always thought there was genuine substance beneath all that slickness.

Whenever I want to write him off as a total fraud, I tell myself that if Elizabeth Edwards loves and respects him, he can't be all bad.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/08/what_was_edwards_thinking.html

"U.S. national pastime on its way out as Olympic sport"

"The Summer Games that began here Friday are the last scheduled to feature both baseball and softball, and players from around the world who’ve seen the sports spread in popularity are crying foul.

They say this year's international roster shows the two sports aren't just U.S. phenomena. Some 10 nations, ranging from the United States to South Korea to the Netherlands, are competing this month for either baseball or softball medals, revealing the sports’ global reach"

Jack

We May Finally Get Universal Health Care

"...Democrats are united around a commitment to provide every American access to affordable, comprehensive health care.”

"One more thing: if we do get real health care reform, a lot of people will owe a debt of gratitude to none other than John Edwards. When Mr. Edwards dropped out of the presidential race, I credited him with making universal health care a “possible dream for the next administration.” Mr. Edwards’s political career is over — but perhaps he and his family can take some solace from the fact that his party is still trying to make that dream come true."
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/11/opinion/11krugman.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&oref=slogin

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/08/give-edwards-a-break.html#comment-126649

TT: Small correction in order? Fanny Flagg is the author of Fried Green Tomatoes. Maybe you meant to cite Fanne Foxe of Wilbur Mills fame?

EdVB,

What perfectly charming post! (your 9:25 a.m.)

A fun story out of the Olympics

"No way met no quit.

"I changed," he said. "I thought, 'That's ridiculous. I'm at the Olympic Games, I'm here for the United States of America. I don't care how bad it hurts, I'm going after it.'

"I just got a super charge."

What transpired during the final 50 meters was the stuff of Disney movies. It was the kind of thing that should land Lezak a co-starring role with Phelps on cereal boxes and network morning shows. And if Phelps does complete the great eight and pocket a $1 million Speedo bonus, he should cut a check for one-eighth of that total to the guy who kept the quest alive, Jason Lezak."

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/summer08/columns/story?columnist=forde_pat&id=3529125

Jack

Jeff Greenfield: Mike Lupica has it exactly right.

Imus.......I hereby apologise to all Hillary supporters.....O is an empty suit, and Mac is insane.....Hillary would make the best president and we should have nominated her.......

Greenfield: It's not too late.

I'm impressed.

"And up to a billion people might have witnessed it, either live or on TV,"

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/summer08/basketball/columns/story?id=3528438&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab2pos1

Jack

Corporate America must be breathing a sigh of relief this morning. During the primary season I was watching a roundtable discussion on CNBC --subject was ---Who would Wall Street prefer as POTUS-concensus was anyone except John Edwards.I'm sure they would feel the same way if he were Attorney General. They got rid of Elliott Spitzer, now Edwards--so who's next?

sturgeone,

For some in the MSM it does take awhile for their lights to come on. Hopefully their reporting on O's empty suit will inspire those who will be attending the D convention to vote for the more qualified person instead of the PC candidate.

What was his impact on HRC if he had not been in the race?

Poor HRC injured by two womenizers

Posted by: Ping Pong | August 11, 2008 8:30 AM

Hmmmmmmm.
Something to think about....

ubns.......the jury is still out as to whether they can dump mr obama, they're certainly working on it;
but there's one whom they never could and wont be able to dump and that's Hillary Clinton.........

Accordo to Gordo theyre working overtime to dump the
Obamanable snowman..............

obamanable snowman not because of "snow" but because of melting in the bright light of day"

Was Rasmussen polling here at Craig's place?

55% say media bias is more of a problem than big campaign contributions
36% disagree, think campaign cash is a bigger problem

49% in an earlier survey believed that most reporters are trying to help Barack Obama win the election
14% believe they are trying to help McCain

81% Republicans see media bias as the bigger problem
47% unaffiliated voters see media bias as the problem
50% Democrats say campaign cash is the bigger problem

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/55_say_media_bias_bigger_problem_than_campaign_cash

If Obama wnats to have a clear path he should nix HRC´s name on convention day.
It will be not good if he ends up wining by a small margin.....
HRC should let this play out and let it be.

I think as usual Hillary and Bill can take care of themselves......O needs them and not the reverse.

Good.

I go see saw, now......

i havent posted on this site in months but this edwards thing and the reaction of craig and most of you people stunned me.....between edwards and obama the MSM has controlled this election ....they knew about rev wright in march 07 nand edwards on oct 07 and never reported on them.......they are picking our president just as they did with bush ..and no one seems to give a dam.........edwards hasnt finished lying yet and neither has obama.........and the real sad part is that McCain is a terrible candidate ......this country cant afford a mistake and put someone in office that probably will make a worse mess than bush ........but for all of you to dismiss the edwards thing as a mistake is shocking to me ......cheating on his wife is forgiveable ....but not informing the public by the MSM on edwards and obama is not forgiveable.....i probably wont post again for another 3 months ......all i can say is PEOPLE OPEN YOUR EYES.......we are being connned with the help of MSNBC and CNN

That Was the Obama We're Still Waiting For

"And the one-America theme will be crucial if he actually wins. As president, Obama will need to unite liberals and moderates of both parties and isolate the conservative blocs in the House and especially the Senate to get anything done..."

"As the Democratic convention approaches, it's a safe bet that the cable networks will transport us back in time to late July 2004 by showing clips of Barack Obama's electrifying keynote address to that year's gathering. That was the speech that made him a star (and unlike John McCain's ad team, I mean this as a compliment). But I've sometimes wondered in recent months: Whatever happened to that Obama, to that enemy of excessive partisanship and evangelist of national unity?"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/08/AR2008080802944.html

One thing I like about the Olympics are the sports that get little, or no coverage, and should they get televised I try to watch them, or record them to watch at a later time. You ever watch women field hockey? Watched that on Sunday morning. Pretty amazing what these ladies can do.

Archery
Badminton
Canoeing/Kayaking
Fencing
Trampoline
Handball
Women s Hockey
Taekwondo
Sailing

"It will be not good if he ends up wining by a small margin.....
HRC should let this play out and let it be."

If HRC is not on the November ballot, those women who feel the DNC did an Edwards on them, should write-in HRC. I may be the only R here who think she could easily beat John McCain, but then again I always thought that, even my own wife said she would vote for her. But she'll not be voting for the O-man.

"Obama As Incumbent" WAPO, EJ Dionne

McCain's core strategy is to to turn Obama into the incumbent, who while to familiar is yet still mysterious.

Turn Obama's strengths into weaknesses, because McCain loses if the election is a referendum on Bush.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/10/AR2008081001867.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

Prof Marcia,

I wrote it trying to be funny, but the only lie in there was understating my good looks.

On second thought, I guess it's all true. :-)

Correen
That Rasmussen web site has a number of interesting articles.

"News You Watch Says a Lot About How You’ll Vote"

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/news_you_watch_says_a_lot_about_how_you_ll_vote

tz is right. Why weren't we talking about this last year instead of now.

"lushislinda, think i read where jane fonda did something similar re ted turner and her replacement. "
--patd

If Jim took me up on my offer and then decided to stay with my "replacement", that would be OK, because I would not want to stay married to him if he didn't love me/want to be with me anymore.

Also, I certainly would not want to be intimate with Jim, knowing he was with someone else(thus putting my health at risk).

Jack,
I was looking for that online the other day, but didn't find it. I heard on Potus08 that eighty-seven percent (87%) of Fox News viewers say they are likely to vote for John McCain, and felt shocked. Good link from Coreen and you.

"tz is right. Why weren't we talking about this last year instead of now."

Why!!! Because the MSM rather bury their heads in the sand, rather than report on issues and people they support.

Corey -- keep us informed about your dad's condition. And stick tight with your mom. Best....

"I've never met a financially secure, successful, handsome man who was faithful to his girlfriend or wife, period"
--prof marcia

I am thinking of all the financially secure, successful, handsome men I know...I don't think any of them have been unfaithful, in their relationships...but, then again, how would I know?

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/08/give-edwards-a-break.html#comment-126684

Just noticed you posted this morning Lard. I've been wondering where you were. Good to see you here. (miss your humor here too).

After reading that Newsweek article about Rielle, I can't help but think that John Edwards shouldn't be allowed near any position of responsibility. If that report is accurate, any many who could get involved with that bubble head is suffering from terminal idiocy.

Take your pick. He is either a total twit who fell for the "old soul" "vibrations" etc line about his ultimate destiny or he was so dedicated to little john finding a happy home that he overlooked the fact that this twit babbled to everyone about her life.

Either status indicates a lack of judgement that would reflect on his ability to serve the public. There is a lot to be said for discretion.

Jack & Chloe,

The disconcerting thing about all this information is just how effortlessly the media manipulation affects decision making abilities.

jamie,

"After reading that Newsweek article about Rielle, I can't help but think that John Edwards shouldn't be allowed near any position of responsibility. If that report is accurate, any many who could get involved with that bubble head is suffering from terminal idiocy."

You think? lol

"TT: Small correction in order? Fanny Flagg is the author of Fried Green Tomatoes. Maybe you meant to cite Fanne Foxe of Wilbur Mills fame? "

Ha! I wondered about that as well! My first reaction was, OMG! is Fannie Flagg running around with a politician? Then I remembered Wilber and the Great River Escape.

I agree with you Coreen, and think tz said it well. I always feel like I'm a free thinker and am not manipulated by the media, but this is a good example about how they direct our conersations.

Ed, I agree with Marcia-- a wonderful post! (Hope the ex appreciates you!)

How John Edwards Helped Destroy Hillary

"If the story were known last December of John Edwards’ “egocentric and narcissistic” sexual “liaison,” as he calls it ... Hillary Clinton, would be the Democratic nominee.

Instead Edwards stayed in the race, harboring his secret life, knowing that it was likely to be exposed ...

... Edwards engaged in a ferocious negative campaign against Hillary–not Obama.

In effect, he was acting as Obama’s running mate. And Obama benefited enormously from having Edwards do some dirty work against Hillary.

Here’s Edwards’ record of negative attacks against Hillary below."

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/08/10/how-john-edwards-helped-destroy-hillary/

Okay, this really angers me--the complete acceptance of extra-marital affairs despite the effects on children within the marriage and the progeny of the liaisons des jours.

We decry, or at least some people do, the tragedy of fatherless families in our inner cities where more than 60-pct of children are born out of wedlock.

But, then, look whats happening in the sub and exburbs--the same kind of do it now sex despite the consequences for the children.

I suppose the big difference is that those outside the inner cities have the financial resources to support, if they own up to them, the kids that will always wonder what it would be like having a stay-at-home-all-night father.

Or, you could be like Stinky and me and one of our daughters. We're the ones who go out and adopt the kids that their natural parents cannot afford, cannot identify, or simply don't want.

I'm more than angry. I'm incensed.

Sturge--

Do you really think Corporate America wants toget rid of Obama? I don't think so. He can be easily rolled. Look at all the people he's thrown under the bus to please his backers. Powerful people could mold him like Play-Doh. Hillary Clinton--not so much. Do you think Hillary will be placed in nomination?

Craig, I hate to say it, but you should be ashamed of yourself for endorsing this type of behavior by anyone much less than a 'pillar' of our society.

Just for the heck of it, ask your mom & dad what they think about it.

Corey...

I'll be thinking of you and your family. Take care...of you, your mom, and your dad.

Flatus,

"Or, you could be like Stinky and me and one of our daughters. We're the ones who go out and adopt the kids that their natural parents cannot afford, cannot identify, or simply don't want."

Now that is personal behavior that everyone can applaud, and you and your family should be extremely proud of yourselves. Nice work!

Flatus

It isn't a matter of approving or endorsing. This kind of behavior inflicts terrible pain and has far reaching consequences. It is more a matter of the infidelity shouldn't be the only thing by itself to disqualify someone from public service.

If someone slips, is discovered, tells the truth, and reaches an accomodation with wife and family, then it is an error in judgement that has been corrected.

As I wrote above, I'm more worried about the egotism and stupidity in getting involved with such a woman. The same thing for which I faulted Clinton while in the White House. That is pure arrogance in believing you can get away with things because of your position of power. But it comes down to everyone makes serious errors in their life. If those errors are corrected then you have to judge their abilities in other areas as to whether they should be allowed a position of public trust again.

Now if I were engaging in conspiracy thinking, I would wonder if the Obama camp knew about Edwards BEFORE the primaries and used him to bleed votes from Clinton, knowing they could evict him from the race at any time.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/08/give-edwards-a-break.html#comment-126756

ubns, Your point about Hillary not being easily molded is so true. Which is the reason, I think, the party decided on Obama.

John Edwards is human just like any of us. He is fallible just like any of us. I am sorry that it happened, but it did. Let's move on.

In case you aren't looking for them, the folks a Google are have a ball with their logo and the Olympics. Today is Diving. Yesterday was weight lifting and the day before bicyling.

http://www.google.com/webhp?rls=ig

"It is more a matter of the infidelity shouldn't be the only thing by itself to disqualify someone from public service." Jamie

Jamie, I have to admit that I personally don't think that infidelity alone disqualifies someone from public service. But I also understand why others think it does.

In the end, it's the public opinion that will decide, because the politicians can't ignore their opinion and still win an election.

mornin' all.

So John Edwards turns out to be just another bright narcissist willing to lie about his personal life. Even he used the word. Apt. I'd say. Tough sh*t - you pays your money and you takes your chances. I have no sympathy for him. Does it change my view of whether he could add value to the government as a part of it? Not one iota. I like Edwards, good plaintiff's lawyer from what I can tell, but he is a bit of a lightweight as a politician - was a mediocre senator, failed twice in running for president and once in running for VP. And I guess I wish he was faithful to his ailing wife and hope I'd take a little higher road, although I had a couple of slips - at least with the first wife (and one of them resulted in Mrs. P & LP, so I'm not apologizing), but hey, isn't that whatchagonnado when you think with the little head instead of the big one?

Frankly, I'm more interested in Michael Phelps' quest for 8 gold medals and was absolutely blown away by the US men's 4x100 relay. Jason Lezak deserves a huge hand for his anchor leg - fastest 4x100 split recorded in history at 46.06.

Now if I were engaging in conspiracy thinking, I would wonder if the Obama camp knew about Edwards BEFORE the primaries and used him to bleed votes from Clinton, knowing they could evict him from the race at any time.
Posted by: Jamie | August 11, 2008 11:08 AM

Oh, and Jamie. It wouldn't surprise me at all if you were right about them knowing early on and using it to their benefit. Everyone seems to agree that they ran a perfectly planned campaign.

Coreen,

I hope mccain does try to paint O as the incumbent. And, I hope he spends all his money on that project.

GORDO,

Aren't all cheaters narcissistic and egocentric ? As a former Edwards supporter, I have to admit that I am a former Edwards supporter. If his family can't trust him to do the right thing for them, how can my family trust him to do the right thing for us? Add Sens packwood & durenberger, and the 'Reverend' jesse jackson to the list of low-lifes.

"Frankly, I'm more interested in Michael Phelps' quest for 8 gold medals and was absolutely blown away by the US men's 4x100 relay. Jason Lezak deserves a huge hand for his anchor leg - fastest 4x100 split recorded in history at 46.06."

Pogo

I agree, I'm also with fry about the unknown competitions they are often the hidden jewels.

I do think the enthusiasm about basketball in China says a lot about the US place in the world and how quickly we can recover from all the Bush incompetence.

Jack

Gee ET,

I wonder how forgiving and benevolent you would have been if we were talking about a R who got caught? Plus ET this story has just taken off now that the MSM has realized they been made to look like buffoons for not paying closer attention. Unfortunately for Edwards there is a massive investigation underway by the MSM to make up for their lack of interest in this matter. Now they will go overboard identifying every nook and cranny Ms Hunter has resided and where was JE during these dates. He should have never given that interview to ABC, as it created more questions and it answered.

"ubns, Your point about Hillary not being easily molded is so true. Which is the reason, I think, the party decided on Obama."

Absolutely agree, Chloe.

Oh, and you asked about my sister's "baby country" comment. We were discussing what an arrogant country America is -- thinking we know best for the world, and recalling Rumsfeld's dismissive comments about "old Europe." She said it has become unthinkable for most Americans to admit that our country is new and could implode just like so many great civilizations before us if we aren't careful.

Jamie, I understand what you are saying. I think you are raising it to a more dialog-friendly level. I simply am unable to do that (which doesn't mean that I don't include you as a genuine internet buddy).

Fry, instead of sending kudos, track down the miscreants and have them send support. That sounds harsh and I don't mean it on a personal level; but, why should society, or people within society, have to pick-up the financial and emotional tabs for someone else's lust?

jack, Fry, love the list of 9 unknown events - I either have or do participate in 5 of them.

xr, sounds good to me - but if we ditched every pol who screwed around, who'd run the country?

Patsi,

Your sister sounds like she's just as interesting a person as you are. And I agree with her.

I feel so strongly, if we would stick to our constitution and to what our founding fathers envisioned for us, we would be so much more tolerant and have a lot less problems.

Flatus, re your adoptions....and attitude -- good for you! I don't automatically condemn people for infidelity, but I sure as hell am bent out of shape that Edwards was so snarky toward Bill Clinton. About helf of those jerks who were "outraged, I tell you, outraged," were just as guilty.

Sick.

good morning gang.....

I'm baaaack..... with a nice fattened bank account..... I had a good fair..... not great.... but very good..... and considering the economy and that the attendance was down about 20%, I'm pleasantly pleased and surprised.....

haven't watched any news for almost 2 weeks..... but the gal who lurks here watched MSNBC every night and kept me informed about all this Edwards brou-ha-ha.....

I have no sympathy for him..... I know lots of men do this.... but you get caught.... you pay the price.... I feel enormously sorry for Elizabeth and the kids.... his political career was meager at best.... if he can do good for this country.... maybe in a few years..... but anything in a first Obama administration should be out, IMO....

While, maybe we should assume these folks can govern just fine, I have to wonder about their ability to make decisions. How the heck do you sleep around, run for president and think you're not going to get caught? Give me a break.

And it does make a difference in politics. I am positive that if Bill Clinton kept his pants zipped, Al Gore would have been President in 2000 and the past eight years would have been different. So yes cheating can make a difference in government.

My sister is glad this story broke while she's here with me. She said she was an Edwards cheerleader at her bridge club, mostly Republican, and she can just hear the ladies crowing. (She loved Edwards' message, but was a Hillary voter, despite being a registered Republican.)

Corey.....

you will be in my prayers, buddy.....
hang in there and give support to your Mom.....

and please take care of yourself too.....
best wishes and love to you....

Olympics. Stinky and I have been watching the Korean version complements of one of their networks to which we subscribe. And, we've also looked in on the Chinese one as well.

Every place we've been stationed, the broadcasters and the local populace look to their own athletes as if they are the only participants. And, no matter the outcome, they are proud of them.

Welcome back RR. Was wondering where you had gone off to. Glad to hear the fair thing is picking up as that is a good sign people are willing to spend money.

Renee,
Glad to hear you fair was a success.
And glad to see you're back too.

damn, Renee, you reading my mind (or just my comments?) lol

While everyone else was here having fun this morning, Stinky and I were outside sowing our autumn garden. Mostly onions and green leafy stuff.

We have the worst soil imaginable. I wonder if Ruth could do something with it.

Sturg knows what the soil is like around here, and why South Carolinians were known as 'sandlappers'.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/08/give-edwards-a-break.html#comment-126778

Patsi, EXACTLY.

btw, renee, welcome back - glad the fair was a success for you.

RR--Well done!

pogo,

"xr, sounds good to me - but if we ditched every pol who screwed around, who'd run the country?"

I am starting to believe that we need to elect more women to public office. Trust me, you don't have to be a Mensa member to hold the title of Congressman or Senator, and I am not sure that even helps. Now common sense on the other hand is a good thing to have. If we started electing people to office based on substance rather than their party's affiliation, or the false facade they present, we as a country would be much better off.

so, flatus, your soil sand mixed with clay? I got suggestions.

Pogo--it's just sand. No clay. Organic topping within our neck of the woods is usually no more than an inch or two deep. Most challenging.

This video ALMOST made me want to start watching Morning Joe again. (Who knows what the future will hold).
Have a good day!

"Morning Joe": One Year In Highlights (VIDEO)
MSNBC's political junkie fix "Morning Joe" celebrated one year on the air Friday as they prepared for two weeks off. Despite MSNBC's tagline of "the place for politics," Olympic fever will take over the cable news channel for sports programming during the Beijing games and Joe, Mika, Willie will return to the air August 25 from Denver for the DNC.

Here is the hilarious video MSNBC put together of highlights from the past year, including MIka and her dad, Paris Hilton trashing, lovely Tim Russert moments, a trip through the primary states, all the presidential candidates and more:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/08/morning-joe-one-year-in-h_n_117717.html

Fry, as they say, truer words were never spoken.

Well, off to the road - later, dudes.

Flatus, leaves, grass clippings, shrub clippings (no needled evergreens) composted manure & peat moss, till 6" deep before planting & after every harvest. It'll get better.

Flatus

" track down the miscreants and have them send support. " Now here we agree up to a point. Since I raised two children without support from a man who did a disappearing act until they were adults and he suddenly wanted a "relationship", I know how difficult this is and you are right that the taxpayer often gets stuck with the tab.

There is a problem with the way much of the collection is done in that states often act as the collection agency for the ones they find but then turn around and make it a cash cow with exhorbitant interest rates and constant harrassment of men that can actually prevent them from working except under the table and thus depriving the children of even more support. This just isn't a function the state does well simply because it often costs more to collect than the funds they receive and all those "uncollected funds" sit as an asset on the state ledger a disguise the cost.

Corey,
Praying for your family. Your Mom really needs you now..

Where is Max, LardassLiberal, and Warren. Long summer vacations? Must be nice fellows.. Miss y'all.

Julie

Renee

Welcome home. I'm glad to hear your fair went so well. As it happens I was out at the Fort Nisqually encampment yesterday with all the recreationists. Several of the women were spinning yarn both with hand spinners and wheels and showing off the knitted and woven articles made with the yarn.

As it turns out there is a local spinning and weaving guild in the area that I may check into as a hobby if nothing else.

Imus:.......I hereby apologise to all Hillary supporters.....O is an empty suit, and Mac is insane.....Hillary would make the best president and we should have nominated her.......
Greenfield: It's not too late.

sturge, comments like these could free the rest of the media to consider the possibilities (especially those who've gotten bored).
fry, yes imus acknowledged it and still referred to her as satan but he went on to say again that she'd make the best pres.
jamie, the uber campaign must have known and also leaked it to the unions. they seemed to desert je surprisingly early.
given the outrage over je, why are the kennedy boys still on pedestals?

"It'll get better."

Pogo, Good. I think we're on the right track. Right now, it's a race against time. :)

Flatus, leaves, grass clippings, shrub clippings (no needled evergreens) composted manure & peat moss, till 6" deep before planting & after every harvest. It'll get better.
Posted by: pogo Author Profile Page | August 11, 2008 12:00 PM

Flatus, agree with Pogo on this. Sandy soil is really good for drainage. The leaves and grass clippings he talks about are a natural way of adding nutrients and moisture. Sandy soil can be great for growing, but you have to keep adding the nutrients.

later.

Jamie, we were very close to being in full agreement.

I was hotter than a firecracker and any hint of disagreement was viewed as total disagreement.

Thanks for tolerating me.

Flatus
Organic material.
around here we have several companies that mulch lawn clipping ect. they will deliver a load of mulch. Watch the acidity and ad fertiliser. sandy soil is way easyier to work than our clay.
If you know a horse stable, the manure would be a good additive. If it is uncomposted it will have weed seeds to deal with.

Jack

pogo,
1. I think the % of cheaters in politics is probably only slightly higher than the % of cheaters who are # crunchers, data herders, plumbers, auto wreckers, etc. Media types, traveling salesmen, and navy pilots are much more likely to cheat.
2. It may help your career if your campaign manager is a Mensa member, but no one can ever convince me that many people other than the eggheads want to vote for eggheads.

3. Q: How do we know which facade is the false one ?

4. Personally, I find the descriptors, 'Democrat' and 'republican' to be more accurate than the highly misleading intellectual slush, 'Conservative', and 'Liberal.'

A conservative definition of a "Conservative" might be, "One who tends to make decisions based on, or who follows, traditions." A conservative definition of a "Liberal," might be, "One who tends to make decisions based on, or who follows, principles." Since the election of richard nixon in '68, these definitions have no longer been congruent with the street usage of the terms.

5. Add frmr Sen rod gramm to the cheater list.

given the outrage over je, why are the kennedy boys still on pedestals?

meant to add why the outrage expressed by some media (and jokes by tv comics) against the big guy as well as je, but not the kennedys.

Thanks, Jack, Chloe.

We've been recycling every bit of our organic material for 11 seasons now. Plus, we added tons of the bagged stuff they pass off as manure these days. Acidity _is_ a problem. In Ohio we used to get manure from the police stables. It was great. And the horses used to pass some really fine pepper plants..

Jack, we were on the high ground out at Leavenworth. We were fortunate in having really good soil. Probably didn't hurt that the place was home to horse cavalry for generations.

patd,

Kennedy boys on pedestals? I remember a screamingly funny SNL skit in '79, with Bill Murray as Ted Kennedy announcuing his candidacy for prez.

Murray came on stage soaking wet and covered with sea weed. I think that was the end of Camelot #2.

"Figures Lie, and Liars Figure!" or something like that . . .

For its Daily Tracking Poll, Gallup uses methods intended to reflect and weight the geographic/population reality within the US. Example, California has 18% of the US population and so 18% of the daily poll respondents are from California.

Conclusion: Obama's 3-5% working margin in Gallup's Daily Tracking Poll can be attributed to his big lead in California or New York. Which means McCain is kicking Butt in the rest of the US. Of course, that is of little comfort to the McCain campaign since those two states also award a huge bunch of electoral votes.

Wake up Democrats. We need to win this election.

Hillary 2008

Impeach Earl Warren

I still see some of those signs around South Carolina. Every time I see one it makes me reflect on how little control we have over our political destiny.

For those who remember history and think it matters. a great examination of the current polling with historical view.

"The Ghosts of Political Leanings

To understand changes in the political map, we naturally tend to look for contemporary explanations. But American political alignments are not written on an empty slate. Beginnings matter, and the civic personalities of states tend to reflect the cultural folkways of their first settlers. "

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/political_commentary/commentary_by_michael_barone/the_ghosts_of_political_leanings

Sept 9 - Change We Can Believe In: Barack Obama's Plan to Renew America's Promise" Change can be yours for the low-low price of $13.95.

Notice how BO could go overseas for a party thrown in his honor, but when something big is happening, he's on vacation & can't be bothered...until somebody writes a nice speech for him?

Meanwhile, McCain tells Russia to get off of Georgia's lawn. Hey, folks like a tough-talker.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080811/pl_politico/19061_1

A leader I can believe in:
Hill-a-ry! Hill-a-ry!

ha - Fry - I turned on MoJo today, only to find a team handball match. (Since they called it a "team" match, I will assume there is an individual event, as well?)

Flatus

" Fry, instead of sending kudos, track down the miscreants and have them send support. "

That is what I do, I track down deadbeats of all stripes and sizes. Finding them is not always the problem, most of the time the problem is with the child welfare agency that is handling the case. We find the deadbeats base on the mother's frustration with the corresponding government agency. Once the deadbeat is located we contact the case worker and inform them where deadbeat is working, it is up to them to obtain a wage garnishment judgment. Or if the deadbeats owes some really big money there might even exist an arrest warrant for this person, but that means joint cooperation with other jurisdictions and extraditing them back to the prospective jurisdiction for trial. Little known fact of life, just because deadbeat owes Ms Smith several thousand $$$ in back child support, doesn't necessarily mean the appropriate governing agency will immediately spring to work on it. Additionally it is amazing how easily paper work can get misplaced.

Welcome to the world of international banking

"One sovereign fund, said to have earmarked $29 billion to purchase foreclosed residential real estate, recently hired a West Coast mortgage broker and is starting to search for bargains,"

http://www.nypost.com/seven/08102008/business/lost_sovereignity_123879.htm

Jack

Dipping back in before I have to run out again...

Welcome back Renee! Glad the fair went well.

Corey -- Take care of yourself and your family. Wishing you strength and peace.

I am getting madder and madder thinking about Edwards staying in the race and being a spoiler to HRC's campaign. Glad he didn't win. I could a flying flip if he ever pokes his perfectly coifed head head on the national political scene ever again. Who needs him? Let him be a commentator on Faux news. He and Dick Morris ought to have their own show with Bill O'Really and the infamous loofa.

"Aides Say She Would Have Won Iowa if Edwards Affair was Exposed"

Not so fast Howard.
"Why Howard Wolfson is Out of a Job"

Iowa Caucus provides for 2nd choice balloting. 'the second-choice breakdown as Edwards 30, Obama 28.5, Clinton 23.5)"

So the odds are that, if John Edwards had dropped out on the morning before the Iowa caucus, Obama would have won by more points rather than fewer.

It was also the case that Barack Obama appeared to get the lion's share of Edwards supporters once Edwards dropped from the race:

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/08/why-howard-wolfson-is-out-of-job.html

Where is the UN? Will the UN use the same tough stance as they did in Darfur?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4500362.ece

In the above blog link he did throw this bone to some of you:

This is not to say that Edwards couldn't possibly have impacted the race in ways that were favorable to Barack Obama. He was probably useful to Obama, for example, in attacking Clinton early on, increasing her negatives without Obama having to pay the price. His endorsement of Obama in May was undoubtedly a big assist to Obama's endgame.

But Wolfson is making a much cruder sort of argument based on the polls, and the evidence cuts against him.

I once worked on an Oregon child support case. We were after a guy who worked a bar on the Nevada border with another state. When the subpoena server appeared he would move down the bar into the other state.

As soon as we signed on, Deadbeat's Pa croaked co-operatively in the Midwest, so we grabbed Deadbeat's inheritance instead of playing hide & seek.

Rez,

There are a couple of intangibles that there is no way to prove.

What would have been women's reaction to the Edwards disclosure if it had happened before the Iowa votes. Would women have been more likely to vote for Clinton under those circumstances?

Also without Edwards in the race would working class voters have been more likely to swing to Clinton once the traditional "populist" was gone rather than ranking the two men as 1, 2 as they did with Edwards in.

Just more shoulda coulda woulda.

I do feel that this development with Edwards might increase Obama's need for Clinton as VP.

Jamie,
i know it's a bunch of W,C & S. But that seems to be what many wants to dwell on. Who knows but the Shadow!

Could this be a clue to what the Republicans are holding back on Obama for their Oct. surprise?
www.barrysoetoro.com

It would certainly explain Bill qualifying his statement last week-

“I’m not, and I never was mad at Senator Obama. I think everybody’s got a right to run for president if he qualifies under the Constitution, and I would be the last person to ever begrudge anybody their ambition, and he was a superbly gifted candidate in this election, and had a great operation.

I can't understand why anyone suspects that Clinton would take a demotion.

Blue,

You do realize that one of the reasons that Russia will effective conquer Georgia this week is because that neither the US nor NATO are in a position to do anything? Hell, until people realize that this move is a Russian move to effective take that pipeline hostage will the big oil interests here do anything to complain.

Any American politician who comes out with forceful rhetoric right now will look like a person trying to put out a brush fire by pissing on it.

Women's water polo. One of the females from Italy is 6'01" 220lbs. or 100 Kgs.

thanks for all the welcome backs!

the fair worked well for me because I decided to make an adjustment this past January..... I brought back a line of low priced housewares that I had given up a few years ago..... my potter friend made 100 mugs instead of her usual 20 for the fair.... anyone who made an adjustment to lots of smaller less priced items did ok to well..... anyone who didn't adjust had a bad fair.....

people are willing to spend on lower priced useful items..... they aren't touching the big priced decorative stuff.....

after I get everything put away and my mountain of laundry done.... it's time to kick back..... relax.... and enjoy the Olympics.....

To expand on my point...

Of course McCain is trying to jawbone the Russians because he knows that it looks good for the domestic cameras yet at the same time, it's his campaign staffers who made millions of dollars lobbying for Georgia here and who encouraged the US to send 1000 Marines to train the Georgian military. When McCain took his dog and pony show abroad, he stopped there and I don't doubt that he encouraged the failed plan the Georgians used since McCain realizes that red baiting works better than Muslim baiting...

Bear,

mccain and cheney should go to Georgia. cheney could demonstrate his great ability with firearms.

Btw, nice article on mccain's wildly exaggerated (by him) heroism when he was working for the north Vietnamese commies:

www.UnfitMcCain.com

And so, Bear, how do you expect to reconstitute our military, to masculate our NATO allies, to undo the events of the last 8-years?

We are in worse strength to respond to anything than we have been since the beginning of the Korean War.

Okay. Here is your news of the weird Olympics edition:

Llama fetus to benefit Bolivian athlete

http://www.reuters.com/article/oddlyEnoughNews/idUSN0833468520080811?feedType=RSS&feedName=oddlyEnoughNews

This is a cautionary tale about how we often only know what the media chooses to let us know. Why the MSNS didn't carry the Edwards story for almost a year

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/09/business/media/09media.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Jamie-

And all this time I thought Warren was in Costa Rica:

"... one of dozens of witch doctors who tend a warren of stalls in the Morales' stronghold of El Alto, making offerings that promise luck at work or in love, or to call up spirits and banish curses."

CNN just had a feature on this plant. It grows anywhere, is bug resistant, the oil from its seeds can run in diesel engines and they are starting to experiment with its use in place of jet fuel. You gotta love Mother nature:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jatropha

Jamie

Same prob;em as with ethanol. any plant will be in competition with food production. Almost all usable land is being used in this world.

Jack

over the ocean and thru the palms
to grandmother's house we go....
http://starbulletin.com/2008/08/09/news/story04.html

Flatus,

I don't know how to answer your question and that is precisely why Putin could rape and pillage his way through Europe and all the US could do is get trampled a la Chip Diller.

That's why I think the candidates would be wise to make Bush stand up and pretend to do something and then react to that.

more on grandma, not your everyday granny it seems
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=ahv9BUQLp6SI&refer=us

"spent an hour with his 85-year-old maternal grandmother, Madelyn Dunham, who helped raise him. He was not accompanied by his wife, Michelle, and two daughters"

Interesting, and open to many speculations.

Jack

Bear, effectively the only thing Mr Bush could do now is raise the DEFCON of our forces. That, if he is perceived to be crazy enough to use our nuclear assets, might coerce the Russians into accepting a Georgian peace offering.

"That's why I think the candidates would be wise to make Bush stand up and pretend to do something and then react to that"

A good place for both to score points off the hapless Bush administration, because what ever Bush does will look ineffectual.

Jack

Jack

I agree about the usable land. What makes this plant unusal is its ability to grow where normal food crops won't grow. Give it air, water and some sand it will grow on top of cement. They did show one farmer who is devoting 75 of his acres to it because it will decrease substantially the amount of diesel he has to buy in picking season for his oranges, and keeps his costs down.

Everything is a trade off.

For anyone who cares...and if it hasn't been posted here already:

"Democratic Presidential Candidate Barack Obama will announce his running via e-mail and text message.

Obama's campaign has relied heavily on Internet and social media tools such as Twitter and Facebook, so it's not surprising the campaign is choosing these methods to break the news.

You can sign up at this link to receive the announcement by e-mail or, to receive it by text message, text "VP" to 62262 from your mobile phone."

http://my.barackobama.com/page/s/firsttoknow

jamie,
From the NYT article:

“These kinds of allegations fly around about just about every candidate,” said Leonard Downie Jr., executive editor of The Washington Post, which had not written about the affair until Friday. “We checked them out and we asked questions, and at no time did we have any facts to report.”

Now read what Howard Kurtz of the Washington Post wrote.
They knew about it, they just couldn't bring themselves to admit they have been scooped yet once again by the National Inquirer; John "PB" Edwards call it a trash tabloid. But now there is blood in the water, and the sharks are circling. Follow the money, follow the money.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/linkset/2005/04/11/LI2005041100587.html/

the last line from an excerpt of the article quoted above says alot about his experiences as a member of a majority/minority
``She was very, very goal-oriented and moved up the ranks at the bank,'' said Representative Neil Abercrombie, a Hawaii Democrat who knew Obama's parents. ``And for a female in Hawaii at the time, let me tell you, it wasn't easy.''
That whites are a minority in Hawaii made it ``doubly difficult'' for women, said Abercrombie, 70.

"Democratic Presidential Candidate Barack Obama will announce his running via e-mail and text message."

Hope is ISP isn't RoadRunner.

Steve Clemons over at the Washington Note is doing a good job on the Russian Georgian conflict.

http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/

Jack

BHO has stated he will eliminate the Bush's Tax Cuts? Which one would you like to see eliminated?

* Replacing the current tax rates of 15, 28, 31, 36, and 39.6 percent with a simplified rate structure of 10, 15, 25, and 33 percent (see Appendix for rate schedule);

* Doubling the child tax credit to $1,000 per child and applying the credit to the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT);

* Reducing the marriage penalty by reinstating the 10 percent deduction for two-earner couples;

* Eliminating the death tax;

* Expanding the charitable deduction to non-itemizers; and

* Making the Research and Experimentation (R&D) tax credit permanent.

more views from paradise:
http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080809/NEWS01/808090343

FryDaddy,

I love your copy and paste job from the RNC email you got today. However, the one tax cut that Obama said he would eliminate is the reduction in tax rates for people who earn over $250,000 a year, back to Clinton levels.

I love the mention of the death tax. Many of the country's wealthiest, be they a Buffett or Hilton and countless others say that wealth should not be an inherited or generational thing. They are making sure that while their heirs are taken care of that if they want the same amount of wealth that they go earn it.

By increasing or eliminating the inheritance tax, charitable deductions have decreased and that trend would only continue.

Also, don't forget that while your President has cut many taxes for his rich friends, he sought to offset them by eliminating the tax deductability of mortgage interest, the very important item used my poor and middle class homeowners.

Beart

You're always asking about whiskey. here is an article for you.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601093&sid=a_1ZBCD.b8OU&refer=home

Jack

Regarding the Russia - Georgia Situation:
At this point the Media seems to be under-emphasizing two points: (1) That Georgia initiated action, trying to steal and capitalize on its perceived West-connections and the "distraction" of the Olympics; (2) If Russia or China or India (fill in the blanks) were trying to install Missile Defense Shields or Nuclear Weapons in Cuba or elsewhere close by, would we react any different?

Foresighted foreign Policy/State Department thinkers should have anticipated this as a potential, even probable, outcome of the extension of NATO European expansion into Western Europe and even the Middle East.

Jamie,

What's the chance that burning this jatropha oil will put carcinogenic phorbol into the air ?

FD

Leave it to you to find the taxes that most benefit the truly high income folks.

First I think the AMT should be indexed for inflation. Too many people have been made subject to it that it wasn't intended to tax.

Then increase top end back to the 60% level that it was when JFK dropped the WWII from 90 to 60%
I would favor making the child deduction $5,000 but only for the first two children. After that nothing.

The so called "death tax". Give a $5 million deduction (indexed as necessary) and then tax the hell out of private wealth as intended by the founders. We've had too many "ruling families" Exceptions would be single family owned businesses and farms and permanent charitable trusts (not trusts for the baby millionaires)

The R&D is a good exemption if the R&D is done in the US. Expanding the charitable deduction is another good one.

I would like to see some "outside the box" (hate that phrase) thinking as well. Tax credits for those who contribute to the infrastructure and environment in some way that removes those costs from government budgets.

Taxes should penalize what you don't want and favor what you do want.

XR

Not sure. That is one of those "not enough information yet". Considering the amount of carcinogens dumped everytime a jet hits the air, it is an excellent quesiton.

Hello everyone. I came home to change clothes. Dad is still hanging on. Just breathing slower now. It's been a slow process the last 36 hours or so. He did open up his eyes all the way this morning, but I was the only in the room when this happened. He's still just in a deep sleep. More news later. Bye all. Thanks for all the good thoughts, we need them!

Seems as if every time we try to 'cultivate' an exotic wonder plant, we end up with myriad unintended consequences.

"'cultivate' an exotic wonder plant"

As with any other plant, there are bound to be side effects no matter the use.

Moderate chewing on coca leaves could be considered a good energy buzz, snorting cocaine not so much

The innocent willow, gives you aspirin and a mild blood thinner to prevent heart attacks. In excess bleeding ulcers and trouble clotting if bleeding

Bella dona can keep you alive or kill you.

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction applies to just about everything.

"Australia banned Jatropha gossypifolia as invasive and highly toxic to people and animals.[2] Ingesting even small amounts of Jatropha can induce vomiting, and common names for Jatropha curcas include purging nut, big purging nut, American purging nut, and black vomit nut."

sounds worse than kudzu... at least you can eat it.

New report:

More people are living/staying with their spouses even though they hate them
because the housing slow down is keepping them together.
So, there are currently fewer divorces--people can't afford to separate (can't sell the house or can't get what the house is worth).

Maybe, in a weird way, this might help couples work on their relationships longer and perhaps fall in love again. But, maybe not. They could wind up in the War of The Roses.

Walking back! Here you go Jamie. W,C,S

"There are a thousand different ways that you can play the what if game, but I do believe that the result would have been different had this become public year ago," Wolfson told Trace Gallagher.

Naturally, Wolfson's protestations against "playing the what if game" confuse me, since the most avid player of the "what if" game has been, uhm...Howard Wolfson:

Actually, there was a bit more to Wolfson's statement: "You know, if Senator Clinton hadn't gotten teary-eyed in New Hampshire, I think Senator Obama would have won New Hampshire and he would have been the nominee in January." Wow! Looks like someone's going to get a stern talking to from Geraldine Ferraro!

Forgot the link

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/11/wolfson-backtracks-on-edw_n_118228.html

Rez,

It is true that the simplest of events can alter a campaigns chances for both success and failure. From the news coming out on that Atlantic article it sounds as if there were two deeply divided factions in the Clinton staff constantly pulling her in two different directions. The house cleaning and deciding to go with only one set of tactics whatever the result just happened too late in the game.

"Actually, there was a bit more to Wolfson's statement: "You know, if Senator Clinton hadn't gotten teary-eyed in New Hampshire, I think Senator Obama would have won New Hampshire and he would have been the nominee in January."

Complete BS. She barely misted up and the a-hole press turned it into a crying jag. God these people make me puke.

In the world of the Socialists, it is not the ones who work hard, save and invest their money, maintain a strict budget that should be rewarded, no it is the do nothings, the cheats, foolish spenders, the ones who place all their faith and hopes in the government to bail them out time and time again that should be rewarded. The thought that one should be able to turn over their wealth to their heirs after death and not be taxed 50% is unthinkable; they didn't do anything to deserve that. Forget for a moment they will continue to pay tax on the inheritance, that they were part of that family and more than likely lived a strict budget. What it really comes down to is envy. Why should they have more than me. Simple answer, they deserve it, you don't. Learn to work and save for the future.

Patsi

It was a totally honest moment. You notice they almost never play the important part that comes after the tearing up where she says, "I've had so many opportunities from this country and I don't want us to go backwards " and she goes on about what is at stake for the country. It was a beautiful speech, but you didn't really get to hear it..

When I think about what has happened since Bill Clinton left office, I could cry as well.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/08/give-edwards-a-break.html#comment-126679

Linda, missed it this morning, but I really love your 7:56 post.
He's lucky to have you.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/08/give-edwards-a-break.html#comment-126834

Jamie, reading that nytimes piece you linked, it sounds like Edwards would never have been caught or had to confess, if he had just stayed away from her. He might have escaped the whole mess (as far as the public was concerned). What stupidity! He just couldn't stay away.

Patsi, I think you can email his ass at F News:-)

"Maybe, in a weird way, this might help couples work on their relationships longer and perhaps fall in love again. But, maybe not."-PM

There's something here about the social and economic pressures like in the "good old days"

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/08/give-edwards-a-break.html#comment-126841

Patd, His grandmother sounds like a great lady. He definitely had some good role models and a good upbringing. It's not surprising how he's succeeded.

"More people are living/staying with their spouses even though they hate them because the housing slow down is keepping them together."
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/08/give-edwards-a-break.html#comment-126867

Well Marcia, that's one way to keep families together.

"the do nothings, the cheats, foolish spenders, the ones who place all their faith and hopes in the government to bail them out time and time again that should be rewarded."

You mean like trust fund babies who haven't lifted a finger to do more than run a credit card on Rodeo drive, CEOs who make 400 times more than their employees, those moving jobs overseas for the sake of bigger profits, and the corporations such as the auto folks who make stupid decisions? Credit Card and Mortgage bankers who violate every sane provision against usury and then expect the tax payer to pick up the paper.

Reward hard work and commitment to the community, but send the greedy gougers to the jail cells they so richly deserve for stealing from the nations wealth.

"In the world of the Socialists"

What F888ing socialists.

It is the 21st century not the 1950's

It is what I love about the debate between the left and the right. It is like nothing has happened in the last 50 years.

Jack

I don't really agree with this one.

The Color-Coded Campaign
Why isn’t Obama doing better in the polls? The answer no one wants to hear.

For many Democrats, Obama’s eventual residence there has long seemed a foregone conclusion. But cast your mind forward twenty years and imagine looking back on this election. Would it really seem strange from that vantage point if the first black major-party nominee—a guy with a thin résumé, no foreign-policy credentials in an era scarred by terrorism, a background alien to much of Wonder Bread America, and the full name Barack Hussein Obama—lost? No, it would seem inevitable. That Obama has convinced us that the opposite outcome is even possible is testament to his many gifts. The next three months will show whether they include a talent that would serve him very well in the Oval Office: the ability to conduct a necessary, indeed vital, conversation that no one really wants to have.

http://nymag.com/news/features/49138/

Renee - welcome back, and with a successful fair behind you, too. You have been missed.

Jason - of course, I want to be civil. Frankly, I think more than civil is the best way to go. I've always thought you are a really really nice guy, and that you have a lot to offer in the way of insights.

As I have been reading these posts today, I'm surprised that I wasn't laughed out of the water. It even seems the most angry people are the guys. That makes sense because I feel that most of the men here are way more sophistocated than the average, and also more mature in the understanding of the real fact of life, i.e., don't count on being lucky. Work for what you want. So I can understand the disgust all you men feel toward Edwards, and I enjoy being able to converse with you guys.

But I have to tell you that I didn't fall for anything. I never was enraptured with JE. I am far too cynical - I had my tonsils out at 6 and didn't fall for the idea that we were going for a ride on the gurny. (My folks made me get on it.) Really, I don't fall - I make mistakes from here to hell and gone, but I don't think I've ever fallen for a line.

I absolutely agree tha JEe was stupid beyond belief, and thought even before it was mentioned that some laws have been broken. The cover up was really bad, but I don't mind the lying - I kind of believe in lying about sex,except to your partner. I do NOt like this whole episode and am glad he is probably suffering.

What I'm saying is that it is very possible that he wasn't looking for just sex.

I will also admit that I was pussyfooting around because I didn't want to fall back on a statement I know is irritating, but I guess I have to fess up. I think the longer I have lived and the more I have seen people go thru soul-destroying pain, and the more I have that pain, the more I am able to hang back a little in judgement when I see another person be so destructive, and he has been destructive.

YES, YOU WONDERFUL MEN OUT THERE - I know you have lived thru terrible times and watched others do so, too. I'm not saying eveybody will feel the same.
I am saying this is how I can see the whole mess - I even went back to the prior paragraqph and changed all the "you"s to "I"'s to show that.

I haven't used his wife's name on pupose - she deserves to be left out of the public discussion, I think.

The main point I would make is that I didn't believe he was too good to be true and am not disappointed as a result - just sad.

Coery - if you're there, I am so sorry for you and your family at this time I hope you can remember that things will get better. I think you know that, already, but keep it in mind now. Be good to yourself and be good with your mom.

FryDaddy,

It seems the only people getting bailed out by the Bush administration are oil companies, war profiteers and investment banks on Wall Street. Are you calling the business base of the Bush Republican party Socialists?

The people inheriting vast estates, particularly third and fourth generation did nothing but get born into the right family, fortunate that the wealth wasn't wasted on cocaine binges and million dollar collars for their spoiled dogs. More often than not, they were able to exploit the government largesse for their own personal gains.

If Warren Buffett or Bill Gates could amass over $40 Billion each in their lifetimes and then turn around and give it all away so that their heirs have to work to get to that spot, why can't all these lazy rich families get off their fat inheritance laden asses and do the same? Shouldn't they learn to work and save for the future?

Estate tax. No one never saw a dead billionaire rise up out of his crypt to write a check for the IRS. 'Death Tax' it is not, and never has been. Start it a 2 MM.

Cap the income tax at 50%. This is generous considering the amount of money we lay out to protect the assets and lives of the Ruling Class (especially Houston oilmen). The Ruling Class cheats the stockholders, employees, and customers, so let them pay their ill-gotten gains back through both nostrils. reagan used to say that the tax made high-earners lazy. In truth, it made them work harder. no income tax on people who earn less than $30K/yr.

Create big tax incentives for cars that get 40 plus mpg, especially e85 and plug-in full hybrids, balanced by a hefty tax on pickups, SUVs, vans and cars that get less than 25 mpg - unless ownership of said pickup or SUV can be proven to be essential to the person's/corporations gainful employment. This revenue dedicated for first 12 years to national energy restructuring to eliminate rock oil powered vehicles - antiques excepted. National antique car tax - 2% mkt value/yr.

Big tax incentives for solar panels, urban rooftop lawns, and suburban commercial rooftop lawns.

Cease all Fed subsidies for suburban expansion. Fed Toll on suburban US and Interstate highways revenue dedicated to bridge replacement, collected electronically.

Add 50c/gallon gas tax dedicated to national energy restructuring.

"Obama’s former pastor, Wright, will publish a new book and hit the road to promote it, "

Chloe
In the paragraph before the one you quoted.
LOl
It looks like Obma had better come up with a plan right now on this race issue.
But if they can't address this in a way that satisfies an easy group such as middle class suburbia, what chance do they have with the hard conflicts in the world.

After all in their hearts middle class suburbia wants to be convinced.

Jack

Why not figure out a way to make fuel out of kudzu ?

'Cuz as soon as a species becomes desirable it goes extinct.

Turning kudzu into fuel would make Dixie energy independent as long as the crap lasts. Except for Texas, of course. Haw Haw

Gotta feed Sweetie. 'Bye all.

Jack,

I wonder if Wright isn't just trying to further a cause he really believes in. I've heard the stuff about him possibly wanting to hurt Obama, but I think it might have more to do with him wanting to use his connection to Obama to get his message out.

I like to think that race will not be a deciding factor in this election. I think Obama's lack of connection to the working class is not about race (except for the worst bigots).

He still hasn't moved in the direction of showing us (the common guys) why we should trust him. Those of us who are not impressed with his celebrity status, here and around the world, need to see something we can grab onto.

Interesting op-ed:

"So why is the presidential race a statistical dead heat? The pundits have offered a host of reasons, but one in particular deserves more exploration: racism."

"If the percentage of white voters who cannot bring themselves to vote for a black candidate were only 15 percent, that would be more than all black voters combined. (Coincidentally, it also would be more than all voters under 24 years old.) That amounts to a racial advantage for John McCain."

Some might say that turnabout is fair play, citing the fact that 89 percent of blacks say they plan to vote for Obama. That level of support represents a racial advantage for him, too, right? Not necessarily. Blacks overwhelmingly vote Democratic in the general election anyway. According to CNN exit polls John Kerry got 88 percent of the black vote in 2004.

Think racism isn’t a major factor in this election? Think again. "

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/09/opinion/09blow.html?ex=1376020800&en=c34e85d3525968e3&ei=5124&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink

PS: I think racialism is the more proper terminology.

I got a reprieve.

FryDaddy,

Socialism is the public ownership of the means of production.

What you are talking about is welfare for the rich. Wall Street is loaded with welfare queens, and almost every red state is on welfare. I say, make 'em work for a living.

A real conservative would call for debter prisons for all the executives who screwed up the subprime mortgage industry.

Rez

That 15% aren't going to vote for any democratic presidential candidate, they have already migrated into the Republican fold years ago. That is a red herring.

Jack

If the House and Senate are on a break, does that make cotus interruptus? (or is that an old one?)

Hi Chloe,

I read the link earlier which you posted about asking why Obama isn't
further ahead. And I had exactly the same impression of it as you.
I was going to comment on it, as well. Glad you did.

I agree with you that I don't buy the "it's a race thing" for why Obama
isn't soaring in the polls. I still believe Democrats are
divided and that has something to do with his lagging numbers.
Also, O hasn't connected, overwhelmingly, with working class or
even average white voters for many reasons other than his race.

Here's a random question for the ladies on board today...

If a woman's place is in the kitchen, why are most of the world's top chef's men?

Women are the biggest supermodels in the world, yet it takes a gay man to do their makeup and teach them their catwalk strut...

What gives?

Flatus.......don't know about columbia dirt or sand but on the island here surrounded by salt water creeks and the ocean it is rich black tomato growing soil.....of course all the farms are shrinking and growing fewer by the year and the horse farms and condos and McMansions and REAL mansions are sprouting up like the tomatos used to.........Suits me, I build cabinets, not tomato stakes.........

Chloe
Yeah but,

If you watch Obama interacting white working class goups he is obviously uncomfortable. Is he equally uncomfortable with any audience in a close situation.
Blacks would wonder about a white politician that displayed that level of discomfort and be suspicious. shouldn't Obama be held to the same standard when dealing with white audiences?
What you here is, it is the white audiences fault.

Obama loves to shoot hoops. If he had taken a basket ball on a tour of southern Indian he would have kicked HRC's butt all over the place.
If he had done the same thing in his visit to southern MO the same thing would happen. those little towns have been basket ball nuts since the game was invented. Yet Obama 's campaign treat it as if Basketball is an urban thing.
It is that cluelessness that hurts him and every Democratic candidate that is not Bill clinton.

Jack

Could anyone here shed some light on Obama's cililian national security force? I have seen mention of it, yet couldn't quite believe it till I saw it with my own eyes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEhzvyblUy4

Hi Bear,

I'll take a stab at your second question--supermodel that I am--only kidding.
I have always had gay men as my close friends and they always
related to me VERY differently from my straight male friends. I don't think
gay men can be classified as the same as non-gay men even though
gay men are, of course, men. Gay men seem to offer me a perspective
that is sort of a balance between feminine and masculine which I like a lot.

Great post today, Craig. This story is only what..5 days old? I've already had it up to HERE. Human foibles sure get people up on their high horses. But be careful up there. It's sometimes a hard fall.

Bear -

The answer about the chefs is that your premise is wrong. A woman's place is not necessarily in the kitchen.

As for models, maybe it's cuz women's clothes and fashion are more capricious and competetive, so there's a greater use for them - and the guys who love fashion just don't get the chance? Maybe some of the women models are cross-dressers? Why not? Who cares?

Chloe and anyone interested,

Update: I found an article just published today on Salon about the same topic we were discussing only with a different perspective.

"Why isn't Obama crushing McCain?" Why, in what should be a Democratic year, can't Obama put McCain away?

Race is not mentioned once as being among any of the reasons Obama
isn't soaring in the polls.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/08/11/obama/?source=newsletter

"her [hillary's] real problem is a cohort of women......"

--mrs greensspan

I guess mrs greenspan forgot about me......

For Mrs greenspan

The Band - It Makes No Difference

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJXc0NRCmRQ

What an interesting day, Taxes and infidelity. Uber Obama supporter Ed Schultz spent all afternoon of his show talkiing about Edwards' lie to the media - forget the infidelity. Same standard the Repugs applied against Clinton - forget the blow job, focus on the lie.

Wolfson's full of sh*t. Who believes that more Edwards supporters in any state would have gone to Hillary instead of to Obama? Not this Hillary non dead-ender supporter.

The difference between McCain and Edwards - Edwards denied the affair when confronted with it and he talked about how f*ckin' wonderful, sexy, etc. his wife who he had been in love with for 30 plus years was. McCain was never in the position to deny his affair with Cindy best I can tell. Should he get a pass? Hell no. He's running for preseident after he abandoned his critically injured and disfigured wife who had supported and fought for him while he rotted away in Hanoi. Maybe he's learned better loyalty since then - but how am I supposed to believe that? Great judgment - just the kind of guy I want to be president - NOT.

Oh, and socialism and death tax, my ass. Tax the sh*t out of huge inheritances. And they only pay tax on the increase in income after the initial hit, Fry. It's a frickin' windfall for the living.

Well, tummy says go get dinner, and I don't ignore tummy.

Later, perhaps.

Jack,

I don't know what that is about. But he has spent a lot of time in a church that didn't seem to have a lot of nice things to see say about 'white America', and you have to wonder if he didn't start to believe some of it. He may not be conflicted, but I would think he is at least dubious.

I don't know why he has a problem in a small group setting. Except that it's less scripted, and more spontaneous. He's had to learn a lot in a short amount of time. He's constantly being told what he can and can't say. Maybe he's afraid of making a mistake. I'm not even sure he's sure what HE thinks any more.

But he's going to have to figure out a way to let us know what he stands for and make us believe it. The fact that he doesn't seem to 'get it' on any level except an academic level is off-putting.

Just give us a reason to think he REALLY understands and that he really cares and wants what we want, and he'll have accomplished a lot.

Marcia,
Thanks for that link. I'm going to read it when I get back. I have to get some work done (unfortunately)..

The above post was regarding this:

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/08/give-edwards-a-break.html#comment-126911

PM
"Gay men seem to offer me a perspective that is sort of a balance between feminine and masculine which I like alot"
I have been told that by some of my female friends but never as wonderfully as you stated it.........Spot On

It matters not what Mrs. Greenspan says anymore, she lost all credibility many months ago.

Please y'all I would love to hear your opionion on this quote from Obama.

“We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we’ve set. We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded.”
- BHO, on July 2 in Colorado Springs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEhzvyblUy4

tonyb39,

Glad you appreciated my gay men comment. Another reason I'm close
to gay men is my involvement in theater and film from an early age. I could
always count on "my gays" to appreciate my show tunes and my
collection of musical soundtracks. And, of course, I enjoyed and enjoy occasionally being taken to some of the trendy gay clubs in L.A. and Orange County to watch the scene, all those buff, hard bodies.

Chloe
the problem with many of the Afrocenteric folks is they are very centered on their issues and their problems. You can see it with the Reverend Wright. He address's things from his point of view. I don't think Reverend Wright is a bad man but I do wonder if he has had his assumptions tested as much as many of us who have had to deal with a variety of cultures have.

I can tell you from first hand experience there is something challenging about moving out of your ethnic comfort zone where all things are known and living amoung others who don't think like you or act like you. A number of time I've had to realize that what I've thought were universal truths were only truths for me.

Jack

sounds like he wants to beef up "Homeland Security"?

The Band - The Shape I'm In

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbiUQNtU-uE

Bob Dylan - Tangled Up In Blue

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvBkbPEoeAI

I guess and then some. Ominous to me.

Bob Dylan - Things Have Changed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQDeYzUkXOU

Dixie chicken , little Feat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OO3ZMdcL8Pc

Oldseahag

I would imagine that he is envisioning something more along the lines of the British force with police powers that is dedicated to security, undercover work etc.. They have opted for the law enforcement model rather than a military one when it comes to national security. I know they have specially trained people on duty at airports. Those guys could give a saint a guilty conscience just by looking at them. :-)

Not quite sure how it would work here simply because they are one country not a coalition of states as we are and can have a national police force. A possibility might be a branch of the national guard dedicated to the security on each state but has a liaison of some sort at the national level. Theoretically the FBI is a national police in some areas of law, but their track record on security to date hasn't been all that great.

Linda Ronstadt & Nitty Gritty Dirt Band - Hey Goodlookin'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9xChdBbku0

the real deal
Hank Williams - Hey Good Lookin'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhahiKyiNbg

How's this for Afrocentric....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeNU600stLA

Jack

You put up early Ronstadt, then I have to lasso the Stone Poneys

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPvqFkCtAqw&feature=related

I prefer the Jazzy Ronstadt on the Ranchero Ronstadt

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8si-z6qYHgA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOaHLJDEfzo

The Atlantic Clinton campaign e-mails story:

'The Front-Runner's Fall"

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200809/hillary-clinton-campaign

About 10 years ago, during the Clinton controversy, a historian or a panel of historians reported that there were only TWO presidents who had NOT had extramarital affairs -- James Buchanan and Richard Nixon. The worst president in US history and the most corrupt president in US history.

Yet, we have to listen again and again to hypocrites and morons tell us there is some sort of connection between affairs and presidential performance.

GROW UP AMERICA!!!!

Why are only Americans obsessed with this nonsense? Is it that we are STUPID? Our performance on Math tests, Science tests, History tests, Current Events tests shows us we are the DUMBEST people in the industrialized world, doing far worse than people from other nations. We don’t have the intellect to make decisions on policy so we make decisions on “character.”

The press ought to be ashamed that it is matching the unethical standards of the National Enquirer.

Thank you,
ZWrite

By the way, in response to some astute observations on this message board, there was some sort of survey several years ago that indicated that something like 90 percent of men who earned more than $100,000 per year had an affair in their lives.

The expert on women, Wilt Chamberlain, said that ALL of his teammates except one, Paul Arizin, had cheated on their wives.

If the rest of us schmucks had the same opportunities as the rich (coming and going from work as we please, traveling out of town, renting hotel rooms, personal secretaries, women pursuing us, etc.), I think 90 percent of us would at some point have an affair.

I'm withdrawing my political candidacy because in approximately 400,000 hours of life I've had two lap dances and one massage that took a total of about one hour. Shame on me.

Jack,

I agree that 15% (19 his article) is a high number but i believe there is recent polling that put a real number of some where around 4-8% anti BHO vote due to race. If accurate that would need to be negated for an Obama win in some other areas i.e. indies or increased new or returning voters of all stripes. To use his words

"today’s racial “resentments aren’t always expressed in polite company.” However, they can be . . and possibly will be — expressed in the privacy of the voting booth.

imo this is a real issue for concern

I don't know if she could kick Sinatra's ass but she could kick Linda's...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLGobWuiYuc

Rezdog,

Any idea how those number break down on a per state basis? I am wondering if they would coincide with areas that Barr is polling well...

Jamie then there is linda celebrating her fathers music.

She is an amazing talent
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOmxVwJv15s

Rez

"some where around 4-8% anti BHO vote "

One of the Obama campaign people said that he needed at least a 6% lead to feel comfortable that Obama would win a particular primary or caucus just to account for that hidden condition. Of course that was against candidates with similar political attitudes.

Once you go to the general I don't know what you would have to allow. The Dixiecrats became Republicans a long time ago and I can't see Democrats voting for McCain no matter what reservations they have about Obama. That means you have to take a close look at the Independents and figure out their prejudices and whether or not that is enough to make them vote against their own interests.

Thanks Bear

Nice change
My Parrot approves too, he is singing along.

Jack

Jack

That was my second link. I love the Canciones de mi Padre album

Bear

Sorry never warmed up to Sinead ... too whispery.

Jamie
as I said before, I think the solidly racist vote is already solidly Repub. Already factored in. Obama's problem isn't races it is urban. He is solid with the urban vote both black and white but the independents in the suburbs have beliefs about the Urban politicians that Obama needs to overcome, One of the main ones is the view that Urban politicians are corrupt and waste taxpayers money.

Jack

"... Israella Darmawan, Obama’s teacher at the Catholic school he attended in Indonesia before transferring to an Indonesian public school. Darmawan has school records showing “Barry Soetoro” is Barack Obama’s real, legal name — the name sources have revealed is actually on Obama’s birth certificate (which he won’t release to the public).

... the mainstream media is refusing to report on the fact that Obama’s real name is Barry Soetoro, and that he refuses to release his birth certificate to clear up the ongoing mystery of what else, exactly, he is hiding from the American people."

http://hillbuzz.wordpress.com/2008/08/11/obamas-indonesian-teacher-confirms-his-real-name-is-barry-soetoro-the-name-he-was-enrolled-with-in-indonesian-catholic-and-public-schools/

zWrite........sounds like it was your guy who got caught hiding in the bathroom instead of the other guy.......

Thanks Jamie , still sounds a bit vigilante to me but your explanation took a bit of the smack out.

sorry Jamie, I went searching while listening to the first link.
Listening to it right now. I'm a fan of mexican music.

Selena

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xXcg6_2tcw

Jack

This is one of my favorite songs, probably because it is tied to a thirty year old memory of being serenaded while at a party on a Mexican rancho overlooking the Pacific

La Negra Noche

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PG__Y1En68o&feature=related

"I can tell you from first hand experience there is something challenging about moving out of your ethnic comfort zone where all things are known and living amoung others who don't think like you or act like you. A number of time I've had to realize that what I've thought were universal truths were only truths for me." Jack
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/08/give-edwards-a- break.html#comment-126930

Jack,
I really liked your post. I grew up in a well integrated area and am glad I did. Kids think nothing of each others differences since they haven't become opinionated yet. I've spent most of my life among a wide variety of people.

I relate to what you said about our own universal truths are not actually universal to everyone. But I sure wouldn't be comfortable, at this point in my life, living in close proximity with those who would not like me just because of our differences.

Harmony is important now. Although differences of opinion don't bother me in the least, intolerance and rudeness do. So I avoid conflict when I can. And find it easy to do so, since most people treat you the way you treat them.

Marcia, from your link, this paragraph said exactly what I was trying to say:

"... He's got to put some detail to his rhetoric. You have to be a candidate who is going to make life better at a time the country is having real economic difficulties and may face much worse ones in the future. You can't be highfalutin, in a sense. He's got to come down from the mountain to the people. That's my two cents for today."

nite

OK, jack, now you've done it - you picked out a youtube vid that combines some of my frickin' favorite entertainers - 'feat, Raitt & Harris (she's from about 3 miles as the crow flies from where I gre up). Takes forever to load, but man, it's worth the wait.

a meager addition to the excellence above:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvBkbPEoeAI

Jamie,

"You mean like trust fund babies who haven't lifted a finger to do more than run a credit card on Rodeo drive, CEOs who make 400 times more than their employees, those moving jobs overseas for the sake of bigger profits, and the corporations such as the auto folks who make stupid decisions? Credit Card and Mortgage bankers who violate every sane provision against usury and then expect the tax payer to pick up the paper.You mean like trust fund babies who haven't lifted a finger to do more than run a credit card on Rodeo drive, CEOs who make 400 times more than"

Oh jamie still can shake all those Liberal stereotype pictures out of your head, the ones right out of the old Liberal playbook? Truth is jamie, people in this country are paid to produce. You either work, or you don't. Those who work have the opportunity to make something of themselves and for their family, but it isn't by way of free government handouts. If you don't work, or are lazy, or didn't finish HS, or didn't get their GED, get pregnant before they were 18, do drugs, they have greatly increased their chances of being financially doomed forever. But that is not my fault, it was their choice, and they made the wrong choices, and although they can correct those choices if they really wanted to, most won't. The more you produce the better things get. I could give a rip if the CEO of a company is being paid 400 times more than the workers. And if I had to guess both the workers and the stock holders (one and the same these days) like his leadership, if they didn't there be a new person at the head of the helm. I might be wrong, but I would venture a guess that a person like Bill Gates has contributed more to one charity in one year than all the people you have ever known in your whole life, has created more jobs and has made a lot of people a lot of money. Fact is in this country you can make it if you really want. If not you'll be standing around the bar bitching why you can save a dime right after you ordered another round of drinks and place it on your credit cards which is about to be maxed out. People have choices, if you want to party for the first 50 years of your life, don't contribute to your 401K or the company's thrift savings plan, if you need to a buy a new car every year so you can impress your neighbors, don't come crying when all you have in your 60's is social security to cling to. Can't understand why you can't qualify for a mortgage, maybe it is because you can't read and you signed a mortgage on a $1,000,000 home that they somehow thought was only going to cost them $500 for 5 years. Maybe the buyer was the greedy one, ever think of that? You want a real government to be your nanny, you need someone to hold your hand, go to Cuba. They'll take care of all your needs. I just read some people just got their very first microwave oven. Only cost them 7 months of wages for a $250 microwave oven. The other problem is the lack of electricity to run the damn thing. But you would be happy there because no one is making any money, except those who run the government, and no one dares bitch about how much money they are stashing away in their Swiss bank accounts. Now I am going to watch some real achievers do what they do best, I am off to watch the Olympics and cheer for the Americans.

Warren Zevon Lawyers, Guns and Money

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5puAN1PGQw

Chloe
"He's got to come down the mountain to the people"
YES!!

Fry
lol
Why is the only choice Cuba and full blown wide open capitalism?

Look at Sweden where socialism seems to work.

Jack

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9H1Imb6jm0U&feature=rec-fresh

Jo won my widdle toddawer heart

OK, I give, Dylan, Zevon - Feat, Raitt, EmmyLou, Jesse. A little ABB w/ Duane and Berry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD3zW0W8h1g&feature=related

Sorry, no live vid, but, hey, it was before the digital age.

a portrait of stoned sadness: Billie......my man dont love me.......he treats me mean.........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tNSp7MaADM

" If you don't work, or are lazy, or didn't finish HS, or didn't get their GED, get pregnant before they were 18, do drugs, they have greatly increased their chances of being financially doomed forever"

Not if you're living off daddy or granddaddy or great granddaddy's hard work.

I'm not talking about some idiot that gets pregnant, never finises school, shoves something up their nose or in their arm. Wake up. There are families where dad, mom, the oldes children are all working just to try to stay ahead of the poverty line and they do it without decent medical care, access to education, and in fear of the main source of income going bye bye.

Get out of your Republican Ivory tower for a while and find out how half of the people in the country actually live.

I don't begrudge the people like Gates who enjoy the rewards of their success and then turn around and donate millions to charity. As far as I know he made that money while paying decent wages with benefits. Now they have been pulling some shenanigans of bringing in Indian contract programmers who will work for less than Americans while having all their expenses covered by their contractor (nice little gambit that one).

On mortgages. Yes I remember when the mortgage firms were lobbying all over the US to have usury laws lifted. These guys were approving loans and increasing credit balances when they had no business doing so. They got absolutely intoxicated over skyrocketing housing prices

When a house that cost 20 thousand in 1960 is selling for a half million 40 years later something is way out of whack.

And then there's the next generation - Butch's (kid, nephew) I forget.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oWvq2mNN_U&feature=related

The Democrats have put together their new platform \]It can be viewed here.
http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/2008%20Democratic%20Platform%208-10.pdf

Jack

OK, sturg, GFD who can top Billie? If anyone finds anything better, link it. I yield.

My second favorite Billie after "Strange Fruit"

Good Morning Hearache

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQ3PVm6YbmU&feature=related

el pogeaux.......see yer fillmore and raise yas a live Duane......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQsAxHk54x4&feature=related

missed woodstock.....heard about it the first workday following from an eye-witness......who admittedly had to leave somewhat early.......so in 1970 when they had this so-called Atlanta Pop Festival.......which was actually nearer Macon......and I guess as a matter of fact was really somewhere else entirely, but not far from macon......well, when they had this deal we went.......and camped way cross the way there from the main stage, but which happened to be about a 2 minute walk to the "free stage"..........and them allmoans played a whole bunch............drunker'n hell and smokin'

"PS: I think racialism is the more proper terminology."

Interesting, Rez...and after thinking about it, I concur.

Summertime - Ella Fitzgerald & Louis Armstrong

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yKgAEkCKxY

Pogo
I don't know about better, but just as good

Night all

Jack

Jack

I figure that I'll like the platform. What I'm interested in is the rules committee. Given the way they fouled up this election seven ways from Sunday, i want to know what they are up to next time. I know they have kept the caucus, but if they haven't ditched the weighting of votes, I'm going to be really upset.

BTW, The Republicans have never failed to have a roll call and the only time the Democrats skipped one was for acclimation of a second term President. What is so horrible about having a roll call at this convention?
Notice the media is playing the "catharsis" word as some sort of whining. How about doing it because you are supposed to do it.

YouTube is locking me up (wireless is apparently not up to the task). Oh, well. There's always the Olympics.

"The expert on women, Wilt Chamberlain, "

Having met and interviewed Wilt, I personally can't think of one reason ANY woman would have wanted to screw him.

I'd like to see the $114,000 films of the hunter.

Damn, sturg, I tried to link that - musta gotten lost in the locked up, F'ed up stage. I saw the Allmans 2 or 3 times as the Allman Bros at the U of A before Duane was killed - but we used to go see them as the Hour Glass and the Allman Joys at the Oporto Armory before that in the mid 60s - cost a couple bucks, and no one could play like those boys.

Jack, great catch - Ella and Louis laid a lot of the foundation, didn't they?

sturg, the Allmans and Li'l Feat have a lot in common - core of the group gone long before their times - but the groups went on, redefined themselves, and still blew the "popular" groups off the stage. I'm betting you and I would have been in the audience at any given show giving each other that drunk, stoned "Hell eff'in' yeah" smile while Duane and Lowell were wailin', or Dickie, or Derek or ....

Patsi

Everybody has there groupies.
There was a pan fried chicken place/ bar across the street from Royals stadium. It was a good place to eat and I would grab a bite on the way to work in the afternoon and often stop for a beer on the way home. It was the hangout for the umpires. The funny thing is there was a group of women that only came in when the umpires were in town and they hung around them. Even the umpires had groupies.

Jack

... Paul or Warren or ....

Well, phelps is blowing the field away, gold medal, world record inthe 200 freestyle - 3/3. Damn!!

Pogo

There is also a lot of good charlie parker out there but not tonight
See you in the morning
This time I mean it.

Jack

Bear, Jack,

That polling inre my comments are from a
NYT/CBS national poll July 16th. No State breakdowns Bear.
race questions page 27 in the pdf file

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/politics/20080716_POLL.pdf

Here's one for you Jack,

McCain Camp Manager: He Could Make One-Term Pledge (VIDEO)

What this; let me win this one, you guys take the next one. You know, let's knew it in the family. ~~~:-)

Couldn't get the link. Faux Sunday News with Wallace

knew = keep

"Fact is in this country you can make it if you really want. If not you'll be standing around the bar bitching why you can save a dime right after you ordered another round of drinks and place it on your credit cards which is about to be maxed out. People have choices"

BS, Fry. What about people who genuinely believe that if they show up, work hard and do a good job, they'll be compensated fairly? Those people are fools in this country. Back in my feminist publisher days, I used to give a speech called "The Tooth Fairy Syndrome" --, about people -- women in particular, who believed that if you did a good job, the tooth fairy showed up and left money under your pillow.

martha

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTktu8TzB00

My Father passed away about an hour ago. We had left the room while they cleaned him up and re-positioned him in bed. When we came back he was lying on his side and he was noticeably quieter. He looked at my Mom, sister and brother-in-law with what my sister called a "scared look". It was if he wanted to cry out and then he closed his eyes.

Corey

You are in my thoughts and prayers

Jack

Corey

And mine as well.

Julie

sturgeone,

Someone being interviewed on CNN said that Rielle Hunter's videos were
so bad that a high schooler with no camera experience could have done
better.

Edwards obviously hired her (at 114 thousand for four crappy videos) because he needed an excuse so she could travel all over the country and the world with him. I guess she had no job so she was free to follow him anywhere.

Corey,

Sorry for your loss.

Corey -- very, very sorry!

Corey...thank you for sharing about your father...I am sorry for your loss. Our parents are our anchor.

Corey,
You have my sympathy.

Ruth

Flatus

If you are still here,I don't know much about sandy soil.Do know that Epcot had an exhibit where they grew tomatoes in sand and water.We have heavy clay soil which is also a problem,but we put all our kitchen waste on the garden all winter.Since we live in a rural area with no close neighbors,we can get away with it.My husband also uses miracle grow and early in the season he adds epsom salts to a mixture of MG and water.We don't use manure anymore.

I start my plants in mole dirt,mixed with vermiculate and potting soil.Usually works pretty good.

Ruth

For certain is death for the born
And certain is birth for the dead;
Therefore over the inevitable
Thou shouldst not grieve.
Bhagavad Gita (250 BC - 250 AD), Chapter 2

my last comment on Edwards

He said he had affair when Elizabeth was in remission.Doesn't the fool know that that could be the reason her cancer returned.I firmly believe that stress is a large factor in not being able to fight the disease.If he had confessed to her,he sure wasn't doing her any favors.It probably caused her to have many sleepless nights and very stressful days.

Ruth

My brother lives in a mobile home im my yard and he has early stages dimentia.We have a drilled well and when the water is running,I can hear the pump running in my basement.Every so often,my brother gets some water to drink and forgets to turn it off.It's usually during the day and I run across the yard to turn it off.But tonight I heard it running and he was already in bed and locked in.So i had to search for the extra key to get in.He must have been awake because he came out without a care in the world.The pump is running again so I better go check it out.I sure get my exercise.

See you all later

Ruth

You certainly have my condolences, Corey.

Ruth,

Thanks for your hints. I always like potting with vermiculite as one of the constituents. I think what I'm going to do is take some soil samples over to the extension office and see what specifics they can give me for our local area. I do think I'm having problems getting a proper ph balance.

Corey, you have my deepest deepest sympathy for the loss your family has just endured. Keep writing about it as much as you want. Keep on knowing that things will get better.

Very sorry for your loss, Corey.

Oldseahag - I think it lacks just about averything.

Civilian - meaning no uniforms? no ranks?

Just as strong - meaning no weapons?

Just as well-funded - meaning just as...? holy smokes!

I think he is using at least one euphemism....actually at least four euphemisms. The potential is a secret police force called a security force.

Corey--

I am very sorry to hear of your loss. You have my sympathy and my empathy.

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