Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Love all the puns in the descriptions of the states.

"Author Dr. Jerome Corsi discusses his book, Obama Nation, and the death threats and other craziness the SoetorObama supporters are throwing at Corsi.

Corsi DESTROYS SoetorObama and his supporters in this video.

Daily Kos actually published Corsi’s home address and encouraged SoetorObama supporters to go to Corsi’s house and attack and harass his family."

http://hillbuzz.wordpress.com/2008/08/16/author-of-obama-nation-dr-jerome-corsi/

Just got off the phone with my favorite far right operative. They are very, very depressed. After spending years hating McCain, they are stuck with him. That is a large percentage of the Republican base and they are resigned, but not happy.

If it weren't for the fear of their perception of Sen. Obama as trained and supported by Communists (yes there are folks still fighting that war), it could turn into a sizeable "stay at home" population.

the purpose of the articles is to explore factors underlying the ratings -- and things that could change those ratings, even if they are remote possibilities. the bottom line is that Democrats do have the edge in those states, which is what the ratings reflect

Could someone please explain to me how ANYONE could favor REPUGS in this or ANY election? Honestly it remains a total mystery. I can't even discuss the issue with my father, but he only has an 8th grade education so I don't expect much.

Obama should most certainly take Pennsylvania !! I would hope Senator Tester could help in Montana... time will tell.

ET,
I would be very pleased to share why myself and MILLIONS of others would support Rep.

My fear is that the delivery may not have a reception, so why waste the time.

For the record, CQ has been forecasting races with great accuracy since the 1950's and they are based upon a lengthy set of criteria that include original reporting, polling trends, voting history and many other factors. These are not just arm chair hunches.

ET,
Also let us remove the labels and take each individual one at a time. As I support a mixed ticket.

Ping Pong, please do share. Not a waste of time.

Bottom up or Top Down !!
Hurricane hits... (which for those today in Florida better be looking at the weather - maybe one on the way)
Republican - lets prepare and take care, Do not run looking for the ice truck after the wind stops - Go help the neighborhood at the local level.

Dem. Oh My where is the Ice Truck, Who is going to take care of me!

Caucus Fraud Data, Analysis, Articles, Testimonials & Videos

"In two weeks the Democratic Party will formally nominate Barack Obama as its candidate for President of the United States.

It's the triumph of fraud.

I also hope it gives pause to those Democrats who believe that Barack Obama is the rightful nominee and that Hillary supporters should just "get over it." I have been a Democrat my entire life, but I will not support the Democratic Party at the cost of democracy."

http://www.lynettelong.com/CAUCUSFRAUD/

Republican - Build our business that create Jobs, Keep them strong understanding that resources are limited and private industry does a better job of managing. Free Enterprise and entrepreneurial and yes capitalistic values built this great country.

Democrat – Let the Big Government run things with one of the least efficient and productive records – while maybe better then a socialistic communistic system. Careful - we maybe going that route

Republican - Let the private business people reinvest to create a velocity of cash flow in the economy – which is fostered by lower taxes on the front end - that creates better tax revenues in the long run. Lets teach people to fish.

Dem’s – let’s tax and spend – we want to control. Is Putin a Dem? We know better !! Lets give people fish.

Note – Many of those that claim to be Rep have let us down.

So lets use Centric or Conservative

Ping Pong -- "magic of the market" economy basically takes from the poor and feeds the rich. I am going to read your posts more later... I be tired!

Mauro and I were in Brussel today to see the Flower Carpet. To watch a video of the carpet, visit VRT Nieuws: http://www.deredactie.be/cm/de.redactie.english/news/080815_flower_carpet

Best,

Tom

Peace Comes to the Democratic \
Chloe: I think that's just on the surface ...
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/08/gop-base-comes-

together.html#comment-128674

Viv,
I feel the same way as you about it.
I brought that story here this morning as more of a peace offering

- Saying something positive about the Democratic party seemed like

a good way to say something positive about this forum. I had just

read so many hateful things that had been said the night before,

so hoped maybe things would turn in the right direction if I

started on a positive note.

I'm always aware that there are two sides to the same story.

(then again, a million sides to the same story may be more

accurate)

Ping Pong, I got a lot out of your posts. Love hearing more than one side of things. Thanks.

Rezdog, I just added you to my "knothead" list.
You obviously don't pay attention and have no idea what I stand for.

Posted by: chloe Author Profile Page | August 15, 2008 11:57 AM

Chloe, thanks for the chuckle--laughter is good medicine.

sorry for double spaces (??)

Repub Family - local owned small business that created jobs, shared, had expectation for individuals to contribute, entiled to the right to work for a better America.

Dems have created a system thats Net has cast to wide and allowed excuses.

something else i've been pondering lately. in looking at Democratic primary demographics, i was surprised to learn that the biggest increase in participation was not among young voters -- the biggest increase compared to 2004 was among voters over age 45, much of that increase came in the last dozen or so contests and Clinton won them by a wide margin. this over-45 group seems to be Obama's achilles heel, a big reason McCain remains competitive. Right now, even including the most ambitious numbers for youth participation, the November electorate looks to be the oldest in our history, with most voters (by a slim margin) over age 45.

Thanks Tweed. But Rez and I settled that out yesterday.

"Repub Family - local owned small business that created jobs, shared, had expectation for individuals to contribute, entiled to the right to work for a better America"

All sitting wondering why the Republicans tax policy only supports the wealthy and large corporations. Glad to take advantage of small business set asides championed by Democrats.

Jack

Craig,
Isn't that because of the population shift?

and by the way, the over-45 age group has supported the winning candidate in every election since statistics began EXCEPT 1960 -- but JFK was able to leverage a much younger electorate than what Obama faces

ping...

I hear what you're saying, but I wonder if conservatives who are not among the very wealthy have been brainwashed into believing that the Republicans are the party of business. You'll never get any argument from me that they are the party MOST OWNED by BIG BUSINESS, but I'd appreciate some illumination as to what you feel they've really done for the millions of small businesses trying to thrive in America. I'd also appreciate some facts that demonstrate how the Democrats hurt small business prospects.

I just think it's a knee jerk reaction to declare that Republicans promote independent thought and action, while the Democrats promote dependence on the state. And I say this as someone who was once about as close as you can come to being a card-carrying Republican, but is now fiercely independent in her political views.

", the over-45 age group has supported the winning candidate in every election since statistics began EXCEPT 1960 "

I feel a little guilty for saying this, but that's because we're smarter.

yep, chloe, the population shift. while Obama has certainly energized the youth vote, the real trend is more older Americans alive and voting than ever before

ET

Ping Pong's descriptions are probably as close to "classic" Republican theory as you are going to get. Unfortunately the modern party has the corporate mind on one end and the evangelical mind on the other and the very independent, small business capitalism / libertarianism is getting lost in the tug of war.

The modern Democratic party has suffered a similar fate so that what used to be an independent but populaist movement has gotten swallowed by a huge government bureaucracy.

End result: People in both parties totally disillusioned with the power structure and leanings and feeling as if their parties have left them. Jack and Bobby Kennedy would have more in common with a left wing Republican today than they would with brother Teddy, and most older Republicans have more in common with the right wing of the Democratic party than they do with a modern Republican.

Craig, a lot of us (older voters) who voted for Hillary are still basically Democrats (although mad Democrats). And if Obama makes the right moves before November, I think many will veer away from another Republican (Lord help us, if we end up with another Bush!). But then we don't really have a nominee yet either. Next step, the convention.

Craig

" i was surprised to learn that the biggest increase in participation was not among young voters -- the biggest increase compared to 2004 was among voters over age 45, much of that increase came in the last dozen or so contests and Clinton won them by a wide margin. this over-45 group seems to be Obama's achilles heel"

This is why I keep sounding like a broken record and suggesting that Clinton would be the best possible VP choice for Obama. I know it would upset his youthful "change" folks, but they can be consoled by him being the guy in charge while she pulls in the over 45s and keeps them out of the McCain column because they feel the Democratic party has gone completely crazy.

In every single item he needs whether it is rust belt states, national and international experience, familiarity with military etc. she brings a plus. The only minus rabid Clinton haters who will vote for Obama anyway and Bill who they can send on some humanitarian mission for the next eight years.

Jamie...

Your points are well made, but I think the evangelicals are another group that has been totally duped by the Republican operatives. They've been promised the moon, but there's never been any intention on the part of most in power to follow through on those promises.

Today, we have a group of politicians who tell us thinly veiled lies, whatever they think will garner the most votes, each time their elections roll around. At other times, we seem to be little more than annoying voices to be 'managed'. They can ignore us with impunity, and still we persist in sending the same old sold-out bad actors back to the halls of government.

I'm not sure how to fix it...wish I were that smart...but I do know it needs fining!

fixing, not fining

One of the reasons Obama's election is so iffy is the disrespect shown to the Clintons and other Democrats.

Thefre is a sanctimony that becomes nauseating at times.

Oregon should go Democratic, but as I've said before,
this state can't be taiken for granted.

Gore barely won in 2000 and Kerry eeked out a small victory despite his drawing 60,000 to the Portland Waterfront, his largest rally at that time.

Survey USA says it is a 3 pt. Oregon frace. I would think the spread is larger, but who knows.

I know of at least 4 audios/videos that would cause a massive Obama defeat. Do they exist? Are they in the hands of the Repubs? At least 2 are real - no doubt about it. The Repubs have 1 of the 2 for certain.

One of the reasons Obama's election is so iffy is the disrespect shown to the Clintons and other Democrats.

Oregon,
Agree. One of the best ways to turn that around would be to make Clinton his vp choice. That would send out a signal that he is recognizing her supporters and would help toward reversing some of the bad feelings. Short of that, not sure what he can do.

That was much better. You still haven't put forward a candidate that you would support and why that person would improve his odds of being elected.

It isn't an obsession. It is a political judgment that I think would improve the odds of a landslide and getting a landslide is my real obsession because that could mean a solidly Democratic Congress that I believe the country needs to correct the mess Shrub has created.

Cavuto: The Democrats Are Done

"It’s August.

It’s early.

But for Democrats, it’s over.

Over. Done. Fini.

At the risk of sounding like I’ve snapped…allow me this snap judgment.

The Democrats have just lost the presidency this week."

http://hillbuzz.wordpress.com/2008/08/16/cavuto-the-democrats-are-done/

Can anyone come up with a prediction about anything that wasn't a totally foregone conclusion where Cavuto has been right about anything? :-)

Oh and it's "sic 'em" unless you were expecting me to upchuck.

"an impeccable liberal voting record."

Reason #1 not to put him on the list, add in the fact he is an east coaster, it just keeps Obama in the elitist liberal box the primary put him in.

Jack

Biden can do that as long as he knows when to stop talking. Reed sounds interesting but if his voting record is impeccable liberal on a ticket with Obama, it could hurt with the independents.

The biggest thing Sen. Obama has going for him is George Bush driving people to vote for the Democratic party for President, but if the ticket as a whole comes across as too liberal it could weaken the draw.

See if I bring chicken soup when you are feeling poorly.

Remember how Obama outspent Hillary by 2, 3 or 4 to1 and was still defeated? All the Repubs need is for the truth to get out about Obama's past. Much of what people know about Obama is a fabrication - a fairy tale. Obama is a bigger liar than Corsi.

"Could someone please explain to me how ANYONE could favor REPUGS in this or ANY election? Honestly it remains a total mystery. I can't even discuss the issue with my father, but he only has an 8th grade education so I don't expect much. "

Jesus, ET -- I can tell you many reasons. I don't agree with them, but they come from indies and Repubs who HATE George Bush. But they think Obama is a complete left wing kook, socialist or possibly communist.

I personally don't think he's even a liberal. I think he'll do or say whatever his business backers tell him to.

Plus, don't make judgements because of schooling. My father had a sixth grade education and I'd put his brain power up against anyone on this blog.

RE: Ping Pong's arguments. Sorry pal...I love ya, but your Dem V. Repub is pretty much BS.

" was surprised to learn that the biggest increase in participation was not among young voters -- the biggest increase compared to 2004 was among voters over age 45, much of that increase came in the last dozen or so contests and Clinton won them by a wide margin. this over-45 group seems to be Obama's achilles heel, "

Because, Craig -- from the beginning, the Mighty O and his true believers kept telling older voters they were yesterday's news and should STFU. No wonder they are hesitant. Does this attitude mean goodbye SS and Medicare? Very possibly it does....over time. O will do whatever they tell him to do.

We have no decent candidate.

as the sun sets on beautiful beaches, we leave this tropical paradise....
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/08/15/obama-honors-mother-in-hawaii-as-vacation-ends/

" I wonder if conservatives who are not among the very wealthy have been brainwashed into believing that the Republicans are the party of business. You'll never get any argument from me that they are the party MOST OWNED by BIG BUSINESS"

SPOT ON, harbor! The Repubs have NEVER been the party of small business. I'm a small business, and I promise you the Repubs don't give a sh&t about me. After Bush's tax cuts, I asked my accountant why I was still screwed. He said, "Bush doesn't care about your kind of income."

Why is big business so bad?
Who owns Big Business?

Do you have a 401K ?

Why such anger at success?

Maybe We can agree that the outrageous compensation for "some" executives and Sports Stars is crazy...and out of line..

But if they spend and invest to keep the flow.. Then the impact maybe positive - other then a green streak of envy and jealousy.

Patsi

Small businesses can have a huge variety in size.
For my self I'm not as worried about taxes payed as I am about regulation requirements that don't take a micro one man business into account. Things like insurance regulations and complicted tax regulations can be a killer for a start up.

The Democrats seem to not understand the problem and want to pill more on and the Republicans say they understand but they pile on even more onerous regulations. Things like housing contracts used to be a one page contract are now several pages. The same for a sales contract for a car. The new homeland security regs for banking are a paperwork night mare. Us micro business types are the forgotten people.

Jack

new campaign logo, to match his real name

http://hillbuzz.wordpress.com/2008/08/15/breaking-soetorobama-unveils-new-campaign-logo-to-match-his-real-name/

"Why is big business so bad?
Who owns Big Business?

Do you have a 401K ?

Why such anger at success?"

Not success, but undue influence at my expense.

Jack

Patsi,

Unfortunately, you are very very right.

"For Obama, the three-hour session marked the beginning of his campaign's plan to win over big business, a coterie usually associated with Republicans, not Democrats"
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/08/16/business/advisers.php

Greetings! For those interested here is the commercial The Denver Group will be running in the near future-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McfAVoR-C7A

What Hil and Bill represent is the politics of entitlement. And they've successfully transmitted that sense of entitlement to their most irrational fans. The breakdown can be that by virtue of sleeping in the same bed as Bill (some of the time) during his eight years in the White House, Hill was entitled to run for president.

When she was running against all those male candidates, the entitlement became that because she was a woman, she was going against sexism in general and so therefore her failings were the result of a "rampant" sexism. And when she went against Barack Obama, the entitlement was that a white woman deserved to break her glass ceiling before a black man did. Geraldine Ferraro was a perfectly articulate when talking about it.

All of this culminates in irrational Hillary supporters deciding that no matter how close in policy Hillary is to Barack, they can't get over the fact that her entitlement didn't come true. Malfeasance in her campaign is papered over as important, but not that important to her demise, than to the MSM and the supposed "tactics" of Barack Obama. So instead of recognizing that Obama has bent over backward to be gracious with the primary loser, Clintonites hope to keep their sense of entitlement going throughout the campaign. Like a petulant child who pounds the ground, HIllary needs to have her time in the spotlight at the convention. This will make her feel better about herself and give her supporters a "what could have been" moment. But it won't change a thing. Obama will be the Democratic candidate.

Unfortunately, this is a position many African Americans have to deal with on a regular basis. White supremacy is the notion that whites are entitled to their positions, while minorities have to "prove" their competence, and even then, they're always placed in a Catch 22 position. Go to the best schools and succeed? You're elite. Beat a more experienced opponent by running a campaign that not only has no debt, but no drama? You're arrogant. Get people energized about your campaign? You're a celebrity. All of these "negatives", usually spit out by folks like Patsi, Jack and others, hide a central theme that afflicts American society: How can a black candidate be better than a white candidate if I think whiteness is entitled to power, knowledge and prestige?

For the most part, what we're seeing is a psychic transformation of the American electorate. Those under 45 years old, of all races, have been raised in a diverse society that goes beyond "my best friend is black" or "my kids play with blacks" to one where racial differences are acknowledged, but are not an impediment to living together. This is not a pollyanna world, but the idea of power and entitlement remaining in the sole hands of white Americans is starting to erode. But with nearly 15 percent of white American admitting that they couldn't vote for Barack Obama for no other reason that he's black, we note there's still a long ways to go before white America give up the same entitlements Hill and Bill like to draw on, although losers of the race.

Ping Pong

When this country had a viable middle class where one earner could support a family, the average CEO made about 20 to 25 times their lowest paid employee. Now it is 400 times. That isn't compensation for performance, that is greed that contributes to the destruction of the economy.

Patsi, since it seems as if this thread is going to disintegrate like most do, I have written an answer to the question about what Heather said. I had posted it at the end of the previous thread 'just in case'.

Here it is:
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/08/gop-base-comes-together.html#comment-128709

This week's issue of The Economist just arrived. The Russian invasion of Georgia is the all-consuming topic of discussion. The leader realistically talks about the situation:
http://www.economist.com/opinion/displayStory.cfm?source=hptextfeature&story_id=11920701

I'm still boycotting CNN and MSNBC so I am not personally aware of these arguments, but evidently they are prevalent enough for Heidi to have written this post regarding arguments against a true election at the Dem. Convention.

http://heidilipotpourri.blogspot.com/2008/08/most-ridiculous-arguments-yet-against.html

"How can a black candidate be better than a white candidate if I think whiteness is entitled to power, knowledge and prestige?"

That is all it is about for you isn't it, Identity politics.
Not geting anything done. It is more important to you for the person to have the right color of skin than it is to have the ability to deliver the goods once elected

As I pointed out before, you and the KKK folks have a lot in common.

Jack.

Mr. D

"The breakdown can be that by virtue of sleeping in the same bed as Bill (some of the time) during his eight years in the White House, Hill was entitled to run for president. "

On this point you are wrong. Bill being her husband got her foot in the door for the NY Senate, but if she had never been married to him and never slept in the White House you could make an argument that she would have gotten there faster on her own.

This is a brilliant woman with a first class education who supported her family for all the years that he was governor while spending 30 years working on behalf of women and children. She has performed well as a U.S. Senator, certainly well enough to be re elected.

All of the above she did by herself without any help from Bill. The WH gave her exposure to national and international issues that she might not have known otherwise, but you could make a case that if she hadn't spent all those years in ARkansas we might have been calling her Madam President long before now.

Poor folks
Can grasp the fact that HRC is not laying down dead like their little left wingy minds believe she should. I think their reaction to HRC getting her just due at the convention is amusing. It mostly shows that the Clinton hating left doesn't get it when it comes to politics. Rather naive on their part.

Jack

Sea,

Thanks for posting that ad.
It's always beneficial to be aware of what's going on and what to expect.

On the subject of CEO compensation and the inequality of labor versus wage, here are several interesting articles. Mr. D, you will probably find the ones about racial inequality of interest.

http://extremeinequality.org/?p=14

Sea, Is that the same Heidi that was here?

Flatus, I know your post was to Patsi, but I went back and read it - I also responded. Heidi was only here a few times after I started following the blog, but I really liked her too.

I did not say at all that you had attacked me, just wanted to prevent any further escalation as I did not find your choice to shorten my name to hag as cordial.

Jamie

to be fair Bill did put them all on a plane and bring them over to Africa. He was playing on his position to promote his Africa work. From the way the interview went I don't think it worked for him. But he did get some exposure.

Jack

My son brought home a new toy. He has been lusting after a high def set for a year now, and the old TV went out last night. Watching him pat the new addition in passing, I'm tempted to give it a name.

"I'm sure this is a great piece of payback "

Kinda sez it all, don't ya think.

Jack

Hello Chloe, you were the one to start calling me sea? If so, thank you. I don't believe that it was the same Heidi, she uses a different name at the blogs I visit. Glad you appreciated the post.

"That is all it is about for you isn't it, Identity politics.
Not geting anything done. It is more important to you for the person to have the right color of skin than it is to have the ability to deliver the goods once elected

As I pointed out before, you and the KKK folks have a lot in common.

Jack."

Do me a favor, Jack. With African Americans voting 90 percent for the Democratic ticket "with the 'right skin color', please list the previous presidential nominees from either party that were African American.

I'll wait.

OD - To an extent I agree with you re the reason Obama isn't pulling way ahead, but I would say more definitely it is THE reason. They hate to admit it, but they are the ones who have put the party in danger with their decision to laugh off the concerns of half the party.
The names we have been called in the media and here are proof of their dismissal of us and our worth.
Herr Olbermann's yelling at us didn't work. Just imagine the difference today if they had conversed with us in a respectful manner. Now they are striving to show us they do care, but it's too late. They have caused a permanent shift.

ET - the reason some people are republicans rather than democrats is they have a different view of life - it's that simple. If nothing else, they can be considered
as being a sea anchor to keep super-progressives from moving ahead too fast - and believe me some democrats would make dramatic changes without thinking them thru. For my part, I just don't like to talk politics with strong conservatives, even if I do understand them.

MD

This is not about African Americans and who they support. This is about you and your many assumptions about people that don't support Obama.

As I said you sound like a KKK member.
It is a problem you really need to deal with IMO.

Jack

What Jack has done is conveniently fallen into a trap of his own making. African Americans, who vote 90 percent for the Democratic ticket, could not possibly vote for Barack Obama on the issues, since that would be impossible. Why? Because the white candidate is assumed to be superior on the issues, making the black candidate inferior. So the "only" explanation in voters like Jack's head is that it must be because African Americans hold the same irrational thought processes as he does, which is that they vote on the right skin color first, so they vote for a black candidate.

But this conveniently ignores the dismal black support some black candidates have received. Michael Steele, JC Watts, Ken Blackwell, have all polled poorly in the black community, and in some cases, matching the black support any white Republican would receive from the black community. And yet, in Jack's eyes, black people only support other black people because they have the right skin color.

"Yep Jack, Bill having an unfavorable article killed deserves payback"

With that motive why would I expect there to be any real truth in the article?
Now with that out of the way. Why didn't Clinton Attack him. Because it would have gotten in the way of electing Obama. A personal goal of Bill Clintons

Jack

MD

I guess you don't have good reading comprehension.
Or you had this answer ready to cut and paste.
I suspect the later.

Here let me repeat what I said and maybe you will take time to read it

"This is not about African Americans and who they support. This is about you and your many assumptions about people that don't support Obama.

As I said you sound like a KKK member.
It is a problem you really need to deal with IMO."

Jack

"- the reason some people are republicans rather than democrats is they have a different view of life - it's that simple. "

Bethy,
An exceptional post. At least to me, because I agreed with every word.

Sea,
I started off calling you oldsea, and shortened it to sea because I thought it more suited you. I like your posts. (maybe you should re register with type key as sea, so slime balls won't have to opportunity to misuse your name. (just sayin'))?

Who knows Dog, Craig has proven he not the know all and see all and he was using the information from the article, information he had not vetted.

Jack

Democrat – Let the Big Government run things with one of the least efficient and productive records – while maybe better then a socialistic communistic system. Careful - we maybe going that route
Posted by: Ping Pong | August 16, 2008 12:45 PM

yes corporate America has certainly proven itself to be efficient and productive... in stealing money from other people of course.

Repub Family - local owned small business that created jobs, shared, had expectation for individuals to contribute, entiled to the right to work for a better America.

Dems have created a system thats Net has cast to wide and allowed excuses.

Posted by: Ping Pong | August 16, 2008 1:04 PM

Republicans have always stood for making excuses for the rich and super rich to continue to live high off the hog and the rest be damned. You might believe in "trickle down" economics, but many of us are tired of being "pissed on".

No dagger through the heart for this Hillary supporter. I thoroughly admire and appreciate Craig's unpredictable, thoughtful posts and enjoy (mostly) another view point,to ponder. Life would be quite dull if we all were of the same opinion all the time.

Why is big business so bad?
Who owns Big Business?

Do you have a 401K ?

Why such anger at success?

Posted by: Ping Pong | August 16, 2008 3:11 PM

SUCCESS? Have you ever investigate the "success" of the rich such as the Hearts starting with criminal George Hearst? The rich families have the doors open to the best schools, the best jobs, they are almost exclusively offered premium leadership roles. it does not mean others cannot get them, but if your daddy is rich and powerful, doors will AUTOMATICALLY open. That is not fair nor equal. Successful gluttony (look at oil company profits which Repugs protect in all ways possible - no "under oath testimonies for example" ) - this is what the Repugs try to protect. They deceive the poor by promising a more MORAL America, social conservatives who vote against their pocketbooks.

Viv - thanks. I wasn't sure if your "sorry" was sarcastic to me because you disagreed with me. That shows the danger of communicating by words alone = even a simple "sorry" is up for mis-understanding.

We seem to be having a beautiful day here today. I wonder why. Dare I trust it?

Eurotom

An honest question.

Where do people like Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, ect fit into the give and take with PingPong. They are rich?

Jack

Bill Gates' father is from one of the richest law firms in Seattle, Bogle and Gates, and he is, or was, a staunch Republican corporate lawyer working hard to fight for the "poor" corporations who might have to follow some pesky regulations related to, oh maybe workplace safety?

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/08/election-forecasts-aplenty.html#comment-128763

ping...

I have nothing against success. By some measures, I've been successful...though not even in the same universe with the success celebrated and rewarded by the Bush administration. My next door neighbor is wildly successful by my standards...owns his own freight-forwarding business, and is large enough to claim he makes no money while traveling to Italy for two-week vacations (only to come home complaining about how screwed up there government is!), driving a Porsche (and a new motorcycle for kicks), sending his kid to an expensive private school, etc. No surprise...he spouts the Republican mantra every time we talk politics...but I would defy both you and him to point out for me how the Republicans have helped you, and how the Democrats have hurt you.

It's not enough to come back at with me something as silly as suggesting that I'm opposed to success. Tell me what you believe in, and give me something to back it up.

Chloe, you are right there! I have been using it as an all round name for years for simplicity. Actually I think I was kcowley here for a number of months and then one day forgot who I was and signed in as oldseahag!

She should stay in the Senate and President Clinton should continue doing his good works. They are both very good in those roles.

Oldseahag - There is a fun series of murder mysteries set on Martha's Vineyard by a writer named Philip Craig. I really enjoyed them and had to kinda grin everytime he talked about summertime there with all the tourists, thinking how it sounded as if it would be great AFTER they were gone. When he talked about fishing for blue fish, I would almost salivate, not because I like to fish but because the few times I ate blue fish, I was hooked, too HA!

I believe Crai died recently, and that's too bad for his readers.

In one of his last novels, his character sang a song about A captal ship for an ocean trip..... but not the whole song. I wanted to send him the whole song - there were a lot of verses and a great chorus. My mother played it for us tio sing, and we now sing it to the grandkids.

Jack

Just as there are "deserving" poor, there are "deserving" rich. :-) One group is poor through no bad actions of their own only luck of the draw and the other group while wealthy believes in turning around the excess for use to the common good.

Of course the above is a fantasy via over simplification. Gates got a lot of the Gates Foundation money by undercutting the wages of his people throught outsourcing and importation of H1B Visa employees despite having more than enough skilled people here in the US but not wanting to pay those wages. Still his heart seems to be in the right place in relation to the world and if you are going to have that kind of money, it is a good thing to give it away.

Not sure about Buffet. He seems remarkably sane with a definite understanding of Noblesse Oblige and for the most part his investment practices seem to have been benign but that could be ignorance on my part. Cute article about him from 2004

http://media.www.harbus.org/media/storage/paper343/news/2004/11/15/News/Warren.Buffett-806510.shtml

However, I found some info on William Gates, Sr. that gives me a bit of hope. Most repugs would find this... well, repugnant.

:Gates is co-author, with Chuck Collins, of the book Wealth and Our Commonwealth: Why America Should Tax Accumulated Fortunes, a defense of the policies promoted by the estate tax.[4]

Further info on Mr. Gates:

He married Mary Maxwell Gates, whom he met at UW, and who died in 1994. They had three children: Kristi (Kristianne), Bill, and Libby. In 1996 Gates married Mimi Gardner Gates, who is director of the Seattle Art Museum.

A very fine critique of "Republicanism" as it is practiced today is by Mr. Kevin Phillips. I read his book "The Politics of Rich and Poor" in a Public Administration class.

"Kevin Phillips (born November 30, 1940) is an American writer and commentator, largely on politics, economics, and history. Formerly a Republican Party strategist, Phillips has become disaffected with his former party over the last two decades, and is now one of its harshest critics. He is a regular contributor to the Los Angeles Times and National Public Radio, and is a political analyst on PBS' NOW with Bill Moyers.
Phillips was a senior strategist for Richard Nixon's 1968 campaign, which was the basis for a book, The Emerging Republican Majority, which predicted a conservative realignment in national politics, and is widely regarded as one of the most influential recent works in political science. His predictions regarding shifting voting patterns in presidential elections proved accurate, though they did not extend "down ballot" to Congress until the Republican revolution of 1994. Phillips also was partly responsible for the design of the Republican "Southern strategy" of the 1970s and 1980s."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Phillips_(political_commentator)

Enjoy, and I am off to bed.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/08/election-forecasts-aplenty.html#comment-128836

Jack...

I don't know (because I've never sought out the information) about bill Gates, but I do know that Warren Buffet has his hand out for corporate welfare (our tax dollars) right along with most of big business. They don't need it, they enrich themselves with it, they leave the rest of us more impoverished by accepting these government handouts called subsidies, and they don't care. Just as long as they are able to fly their private jets into places like the subsidized, fabulous golf course on the Oregon coast that you and are unlikely to ever even see.

Bethyboo- Yes, he did die and I feel badly for his wife of many years -Shirley- the true Dee. I've read most of the them - they are fun! Most islanders share his view of Sept., being sublime. No tourists, great fishing, great weather, paradise all to ourselves. We owned one of his small sail boats (not the shirley J- a great cat boat) but sadly it disappeared last fall in a nor'easter. Net Result ships smoked blue fish if in need for cocktail hour a la Phillip Craig. Happy to get their info if you would like.

ET - I've seen Kevin Phillips interviewed over the years and enjoyed listening to him even when he was a republican. I've enjoyed even more watching him, as those years went by, come to grips with the fact that he didn't like the repubs any more. He strikes me as an honest man who is truthful especially with himself - you know that whole "thou canst not then be false to any man."

thanks for the gates response
I am in the middle of making an okra stew

I will read them later on after supper

Jack

Craig...

After much reflection, I must say that I think you're crazy! A Trail Mix gathering? Depending on who shows up, you could make efforts to broker peace in the Middle East look like a cakewalk....

HW,

I thought Buffet transferred a significant portion of his personal fortune to Mr Gates' foundation.

Separating management of his business portfolio from his philanthropy is probably important; as a fiduciary of his business interest, he is obligated to take every legitimate deduction, and apply for every appropriate subsidy.

I've always thought Mr Buffet was one of the good guys.

HW

In Vegas I don't believe anyone mentioned politics once. If they had, they probably would have had a beer (or chocolate martini) poured on them.

This is a "get over it" gathering. lol

Will Barry Soetoro Be a Problem for Barack? (Update)

"When did Barack Obama become Barack Obama? There is now overwhelming evidence that for a significant portion of his childhood the man we now know as Barack Obama had a different legal name–he was Barry Soetoro.

When Barack/Barry’s mom, Stanley Ann Dunham married Lolo Soetoro Barack/Barry was adopted and became legally known as Barry Soetoro. Obama’s Hawaiian birth certificate was updated ...

In Indonesia Barry Soetoro (the man we now know as Barack) was considered to be a muslim and learned the muslim call to prayer.

And the Republicans are not going to give him a pass on these matters. They will insist on getting the answers. And the pressure will increase dramatically once the conventions are done. At that point Barack/Barry’s ability to talk about issues will be drowned out by the insistent demands that he “come clean.” The refusal to address these questions in a straightforward manner will simply reinforce the suspicion that he is hiding something. If the Democrats want to spend the fall dealing with he issues of his identity then they are likely to get their wish. It is simply amazing that these matters have not be cleared up by now."

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/08/16/will-barry-soetoro-be-a-problem-for-barack/

Bethyboo- thanks for sharing your song story too, nice family tradition. We sing Irish rebel songs, not quite as charming !

flatus...

We will have to respectfully disagree about government subsidies. In my view, they are wrong. They are a way to transfer dollars from taxpayers to those of great wealth in exchange for promises that typically yield results far short of those promised. Examples include a government subsidized call center established by Mr. Buffett, almost every sports arena built in today's America, and most large chain stores. They also include golf courses like the one I referenced in Oregon. Their prime purpose is to enrich the already rich...either with money or with pleasure. George Bush and Dick Cheney love them. I understand what you're saying about fiduciary responsibility, but I think that's a rather cynical view of public policy. I'd rather see those policies changed to reflect the values and needs of the majority in this country...not the wealthy minority.

That said, I don't view Mr. Buffett as a bad guy...just one who cynically takes advantage of an unfortunate policy, all the while hoping people like me will never realize that he's doing it. And you know what...most people like me will never have a clue. I don't think Bill Gates is a bad guy either, but I'm told he virtually ripped off the program that launched him into a gazillionaire. And I know he is very busy philanthropically assisting in exporting unused vaccines to other countries now that the presence of mercury (the second most potent neurotoxin known to man) in them has been exposed.

Some things to ponder....

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/08/election-forecasts-aplenty.html#comment-1288

Jamie...It was a joke...which I'm pretty sure you realized, given that we've already exchanged several emails on the subject.

Jamie, Harbor...LOL on the West Coast Trailmix Reunion!

Maybe Jamie should alert the local authorities to stock up on crime scene tape.

Hey...I just thought of something: You think the artist Christo would be interested in wrapping 20 miles of California coastline in yellow crime scene tape as part of an avant garde project?

I know it was a funny. I was just added to the info of the likely outcome for anyone mentioning politics. Of course they might end up in the trunk of a car.

Sea - as to Irish rebel songs and charm, if you've got the tenor for it, it has to be charming.

Also, would love the info re smoked blue fish.

Craig really threw me the first time he mentioned going to America, which you also did the other day - mentioned, not threw me. I finally figured it out.

HW

I certainly am not a defender of subsidies--they seldom achieve the objectives taxpayers were lead to believe would be achieved.

In fact I believe, especially in manufacturing, that they are the industrialized equivalent of slash and burn agriculture. After the economic value of the subsidy is consumed, the favored business turns its back on the community leaving it with nothing but an empty, decaying shell.

That said, I simply think Mr Gates and Mr Buffet are the wrong exemplars; there are certainly scores of genuine rascals out there.

flatus...

As I said earlier, I don't know whether or not Gates takes advantage of any taxpayer subsidies. I DO know about Buffett...and I know that his call center not only failed to deliver on the promises he was responsible for, it was also directly responsible for the loss of a number of local jobs.

So...again...I must respectfully disagree. If Mr. Buffett chooses to participate in this sort of corporate behavior, he is indeed an appropriate exemplar of the behavior.

I fully expect Obama to win in November, but I'm starting to feel apprehensive about the way his campaign is going. He needs to get rid of that Chicago machine and get some real pros. This business of Charlie Rangel is childish. They simply cannot punish people for backing Hillary and then hope to bring us stupid ole broads back into the circle.

And this business about faith and faith-based government - trying to please everybody is just muddying the waters.

Did I say apprehensive? I'm worried.

Also, Harborwoman, re the meeting - trust me, if it turns political and/or ugly, I'm just gonna go on walks.

Call me naive, but I can't imagine people from this group getting together and NOT discussing politics...at least, part of the time. I can hardly keep my mouth shut...even when I know I should...regarding how I feel about politics. Perhaps it's a good thing I'll be unlikely to be able to attend.

Hey Bethyboo- No tenor here! I missed Craig's comment about "going to America" didn't know Washingtonians referred to it as such, but sure makes sense- taxation without representation!

Here is Net Result's site-
http://www.mvseafood.com/
They have great smoked bluefish and do a nice shipping job too! Remember to check bay scallop prices in the fall- they are a local delicacy you don't want to miss and no doubt you you've read about. I will try to remember to let you know when the prices get down. I shuck till the prices get low, then my scallopers I shuck for quit selling commercially, it isn't worth it at that point.

Bethy

Are you going to join us. If so and it turns ugly, you can step outside and get on the path. There is a walking path by the ocean from Monterey to Pebble Beach

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pongky/2646700359/

Gordo- I haven't read all of your posts so I of course don't know for certain, but I figured that you just don't feel that our Party has supported the most electable candidate, as I do.. Your posts I've read have been primarily about the BC issue. Anyways, I'm sorry that you were called a bigot, I know that is a hurtful accusation as I have been called one myself. I'm even more sorry that it has become such a common accusation that one is almost immune to it by now. I remember a day when this charge was used with trepidation.

oops so sorry, meant to type "hasn't supported" the most electable nominee.

Aquarium, wine tasting, first theater in California, cannery row, Steinbeck, whale watching, ghost walk, bay cruises

It will take a long, long time to get around to politics. By the time we hit the third tasting room, Gravel might be President

Jamie, sounds like a grand time you've put together in one of the world's most spectacular places! The surrounding beauty will surely mellow any grievances. Wished I could attend!

Jamie - I certainly intend to be there. One never knows what might happen twixt now and then, but since I'm in Santa Rosa I thinkit would be a shame to miss it. My dream accomodation would be in the historic part in a cottage or cabin with a room to myself,
but if I really am dreaming, I can wake up easily. Again, thanks for doing the planning. I have to say I have never heard of Asilomar but the website intrigued me, and Julia Morgan does, too.

As for where to run away to if necessary, it seemed to me from the pix I saw that there was a decent amount of outdoors. I'll be fine.

Sea - Our Craig didn't mention going to America - Philip Craig did. HA! I wasn't thinking when I typed, an all too common occurence. Thanks for the link. I know this will horrify you, but I am part of the small group that does NOT like scallops. It's the only seafood I don't like, and it's a strong dislike. They taste very sweet to me. But I'm going to check on the blue fish, you betcha!

Good, glad you are so centered. Some days I just don't have the guts for it.

Bethboo

Write me an email so that I have your contact info

webthings
at
comcast
dot
net

The sweetness is what we love! i am admittedly not an oil fish person. I just had sea scallops from the back side of Nantucket that were phenomenal, but then again I like them sweet.

Gordo, would love to know what tapes you know of personally-? What do you think of the ACORN story, any legs?

I got back home about an hour ago. I am so happy to be home and that everything is over. The time in my car was TOO LONG! And I did not get any sleep last night! Everything went well in Adrian. A lot of family, friends and former co-workers of my Mom's came to the visitation. My Mom's side of the family showed up and they all got along at least for last night and today.

Bethypoo, How funny, both of our "not thinking". I do think a Washingtonian could use the same phrase too.

Sea - I wish I could like them, but they don't even tste like fish to me. They're a big deal out here as well.

I just checked out their site and think I'll get some of the smoked bluefish for our stay at Strawberry. I'll just surprise them when we're out on the deck with our drinks........oh, god, I'm almost there already. Is it best with crackers of some sort, or bread or what, do you know?

Welcome home Corey. One of the worst reasons for a reunion, but at least it went smoothly. Get some rest if you, you earned it.

Yeah, I guess you don't like crab either. I'd just put it on pepperidge farm crackers or thin baguette slices toasted.

Obama on with Saddleback and the religious forum

West Coast just started on CNN

I'm watching the women's marathon live on NBC.

Call me a sexist pig, but I'm TOTALLY enjyoing watching these incredibly gorgeous, incredibly fit women run through the streets of Beijing in what is basically the equivalent of their panties! In total daylight!

Awesome!

(Okay, go back to your regular programming)

sea ------------------------------

Clue: O-06, O-07

Jamie-----------------------------------

Obama is LYING about his past.

Maybe it's just me, but don't the poll trends seem to be indicating that we're headed for another Blue-States-Red-States scenario with the Red's defending and the Blue's hoping to hold plus a steal or two?

While it's still early, and people may or may not be paying attention, or may or may not have already made up their minds, and while we do not yet know the electoral impact(s) of the so-called "Bradley Effect", the premise of Obama's "Expanded Electoral", "Take-It-To-Them-Everywhere", "Win-Without-Ohio-Michigan-Pennsylvania" strategy seems to be evaporating.

If He doesn't get some polling breathing room, watch out for a broader, deeper revolt at the Convention . . .

Gordo

Neglecting to mention something totally unimportant is not the same as lying. Nothing you have published here has any validity. NOTHING It is all the product of conspiracy types twisting minor incidents into a chain of ex post facto nonsense.

Edwards is Clinton of the hour:

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080816/OPINION02/808160321

Corey - I'm so glad the big formal part is over and you're back in your own life. I really think you'll feel a little better each day from now on. Your mom will have some bad time still coming tho, but I know you will do everything yoou can to help her.

I think what helped me most when my mom died was reading and then answering all the notes and letters I received from people I had taught with in St Louis. They weren't great friends and I had left St Louis 2 years earlier but they wrote me and felt bad for me. It made me feel part of another family of all those who had gone thru it before and understand. Please take note of all of us here who send their condolences. We all do care.

I did not watch the program tonight - well, I watched a little but muted it. I didn't want to hear Obama talk any more because I just don't like his voice. I also don't like his cadence, and the fact that he seems to skirt every issue, to me at least. I'll vote for him but will never hear his voice again if I can help it - nothing to do with politics.

So someone said they thought he did badly, or at least lost. He looked comfortable, I thought. I wish they would just let the evangelicals go - let the surrogates go after them.

Sea - no, I love crab. do you think it tastes like scallops? It's hard to eat, and I'm messy anyway so tend to avoid it. All this is predicated on the theory that anything I eat from the sea is cooked. HA!

Gordo-sorry not that clever ( as some here will attest) , can you email me?

bethyboo- yeah, I figure crab is pretty sweet too. But you know , I'm talking FRESH scallops. I cheat when it comes to crab and buy frozen Maine rock crab- no muss, no fuss, crab cakes in 15 minutes! And I agree with you on cooked seafood, I prefer to food poisoning and parasites at all.

"All of these "negatives", usually spit out by folks like Patsi, Jack and others, hide a central theme that afflicts American society: How can a black candidate be better than a white candidate if I think whiteness is entitled to power, knowledge and prestige?"

BS, Bye Bye. You find racism everywhere you look.

"Hillary's got a lot of good qualities and many talents, but I am glad she was bested in the primaries."

Well, duh. That's been obvious for some time....

Keeping everybody happy is impossible. You just need to choose the 51% that will get you elected and hang on to them.

Now we're down to accusations of penis envy. Jesus H. Christ. Oh, by the way dog, your boy Joshua Green also helped sink Al Gore with hit pieces.

http://guerillawomentn.blogspot.com/2008/08/author-of-atlantics-hit-job-on-hillary.html

Sorry it's a feminist blog link, because I know how you despise anything to do with women's rights.

Jamie-----------------------------

Obama has been protected by MSM. Most of you live in a MSM world. You may not be quite as informed about Obama as you think - remember what you said about Stanley Ann and his half-sister? The evidence that Obama is lying about his past is overwhelming and growing. It is possible that he is not even using his legal name. Maybe none of this matters to you, but it will matter to many millions of voters. Many will try to play the race/religion card to shield Obama from the attacks - it will not work - he is lying .

From Obama's site:

"Senator Obama is a committed Christian. He has never been Muslim, and was not raised in that faith."

http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/fightthesmearshome

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/08/election-forecasts-aplenty.html#comment-128770

Pat: Thanks for the link ... a very interesting article ...

viv

Two sets of the feet made it to Washington, but one turned out to be a hoax.

No wonder politicians like these informal townhall formats.
No follow up. They can just go off with the canned answers pandering to the audiences. Much like stump speaking.

Gordo,

Barrack Obama did not live with his stepfather after the age of 10 and had no control over what Soetero may have put on any documents of any sort. Sen. Obama's grandparents are at best agnostic and he lived with them until going to University..

You can't be "raised" something you weren't even near after the age of ten and you can't be held responsible for the acts of another person of which you were unaware.

WHAT??!!???**%^$@^&@*)@+)U*TY#

You mean Clinton and Kerry don't have penises??????

Jamie, you must have known this because you voted for them, right???

Do you think that means the whole Monica Lewinsky thing was a hoax?????????

DAMN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tried to make this as short as possible.
==============================

Fighting the Muslim “Smear”: I have NEVER been…

"Let us state, unequivocally at the outset of this article, that we have NO bias against Islam and nothing against Islamic people.

We are not the ones insulting Muslims. In fact, we feel badly that one of the largest religions in the world is being insulted by a leading contender for the US Presidency. So much for unity.

Barack Obama has made it very clear that he considers it a “smear” to be Muslim, or to be labeled a Muslim.

The proof of that is right out in the open, on his campaign’s “Fight The Smears” webpage, where he “fights” the “smear:”

“I have never been a Muslim.”

In a private meeting with Jewish leaders in February, Obama emphatically re-stated the claim. He said:

“I AM NOT, NOR HAVE I EVER BEEN, A MUSLIM (ESPECIALLY AN ANTI-AMERICAN ONE)”

We assert that he was a Muslim, though. based primarily on his own memoirs and his own sister’s statements, as well as documentation from Indonesia. [Update -- now shown on the school registration form]. But now he wants that part of his life to go missing, like so many state senate or college records. He desperately wants you to believe that he was NEVER A MUSLIM because he believes it to be a “smear” to be Muslim.

But that anti-smear” claim does not match the facts of his life. And much as he might wish to, the facts of his life cannot be re-written."

http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/08/15/fighting-the-muslim-smear/

I'm not sure why McCain would want or need a WH cabinet???

Yeah Bethy I know

All that voting I did for President from 1968 on must have been women faking it. And to think they never got caught.

Gordo

I can lots of things about Sen. Obama that don't particularly please me without delving into anything produced by the tin hat tribe.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/08/election-forecasts-aplenty.html#comment-128783

Sea: Yes, just wished it was out in the MSM .. no one is talking like this at all .. they got the BO fever ... ewww
--------------
All of the above she did by herself without any help from Bill. The WH gave her exposure to national and international issues that she might not have known otherwise, but you could make a case that if she hadn't spent all those years in ARkansas we might have been calling her Madam President long before now.

Posted by: Jamie | August 16, 2008 4:25 PM

Hear, Hear, Jamie!!! AGREE!!!

The main thing that has made me so upset & disappointed bout all of this IS .. How ALL of the msm & BO supporters have dismissed all HER acomplishments ... Always yelling from the tallest tree, that Hillary wouldn't be in the Political arena without Bill Clinton ...

BULLSHIT!!!~~~~~~~~~

==============

Well I was 24. I had been voting since 21, but Bobby Kennedy was my first Presidential Primary vote in California. It wasn't a good night.

Mark...

I just assumed the blog wasn't contentious enough for you today, and you were trying to stir up trouble. Anything to start a fight....

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/08/election-forecasts-aplenty.html#comment-128806

Jamie, LOL .. can relate .. when my son finally was able to afford one, he was so exctied, he came & got me so I could see how he'd fixed it up for the best viewing, lol
Men with their toys, hehehe

viv

Farraro merely repeated what Obama himself had said earlier. And she included herself by saying she wouldn't have been VP nominee if she hadn't been a woman. And then the insanity took hold. You simply are not allowed to say anything in this campaign.

Obama doesn't have the experience? MMG! What a racist thing to say!!!! How DARE you question this new Joshua?

Affirmative Action gets the foot in the door. Then you have to prove you belong in the room.

Affirmative Action got him that 2004 Convention speech and the backing of the big guys to take a first term senator with no national experience who has missed close to half of his time in the Senate because he was running for another higher office.

That doesn't mean he doesn't deserve to be President, it just means that he wouldn't have gotten the head start if he had been white with the same job history. That is all Ferraro said. It was the truth.

Jamie -----------------------------------

So, you only believe MSM? Do you know there is a difference between alternative media and tin-foil world? Probably not.

From what I'm reading and hearing, the Repubs (and others) have sent opposition research teams to Kenya, Canada, Hawaii and Indonesia. They have THE DOCUMENTS. The Repubs don't have to lie this time. The TRUTH will doom Obama.

Viv - thanks. I wasn't sure if your "sorry" was sarcastic to me because you disagreed with me. That shows the danger of communicating by words alone = even a simple "sorry" is up for mis-understanding.
Posted by: bethyboo | August 16, 2008 5:36
============
Bethy: I know & realize it when I read your response ... I got a call from am old friend & didn't come back last night, so can imagine how it sounded ... note to self* try to make yourself more understandable* lol .... but wasn't feeling any pain last night ...

Had a wonderful time at The Shadow Bow with my daughter, son & his GF ... ahh, Pogo, if you ever are back in a area, should check it out .. 2 hours of non stop laughing, they are that good ... think the only other one is in Colmbus, Ohio .. great time ...

viv

Jamie,
Your rationale is accurate to the point that you understand the nuances of political speak. But Joe Blow hears Ferraro in a different light from much different perspective. And she understands that too.

But I honestly don't think that she meant anything more sinister than that Hillary Clinton whom Ferraro supported was more qualified and experienced than Barrack Obama whom Ferraro opposed. I supposed I see it totally that way because that is exactly what I think about him.

I would have backed him whole heartedly in eight years when he had given proof of being able to do his job and represent his state. Now I just have to take his word for it and vote him because I can't vote for the alternative.

Jamie,
Obviously we disagree on what the import of her comments were and their purpose. NBD.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/08/election-forecasts-aplenty.html#comment-128889

Corey: Glad to hear everything went good .. hope you get some rest tonight .... you'll probably sleep like a log after that drive ...

I DO know how families can be sometimes ...
When my Mom's Dad died, won't go into it, but words were said that ended up with 5 years of grudge holding ...

Gordo,

I don't doubt that there might be school records where his religion as stated by his step father is listed as Moslem. I'm saying that Sen. Obama has no responsibility for anything said about him when he was a child. It was a public school is Indonesia. Unlike public schools here religion classes were part of the curriculum. So what. He was a little boy.

"i'm saying that Sen. Obama has no responsibility for anything said about him when he was a child."

Jamie, I guess you don't know Maxtrue! LOL

According to Max, he was drafting his inaugural speech at 10 .:-)

Rez

This whole judging the present by the past conspiracy theorists logic drives me completely crazy. The Clinton Chronicles are classic and they are just beginning on Obama. Before that crowd in finished they will PROVE he wiped out all potential rivals while he was still in the womb plotting world domination.

LOL. tell me!.

Max use to drive me to drink rofl. I know I liked him for some reason!

Wahoo!!!! Record broken with one more possible.

McCain and Obama at Pastor's forum

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/16/warren.forum/index.html

Jamie --------------------------------

Of course, little Barry had no say in anything. I understand that. But he is no longer little Barry. (Could be big Barry if his name was not legally changed to Barack.) The point is that he is LYING! He is not telling the TRUTH about his past. The American people should be told the TRUTH! It's that simple.

Obama added that he does support same-sex civil unions,saying,"I can afford those civil rights to others even if I don't have... that view". Oh now I feel better!

When asked to define marriage,Obama told Warren,"Its a union between a man and a woman" "For me as a Christian, its a sacred union,Gods in the mix" he said. Such utter BS!!! This is what we demand of someone running for President....I really can't blame Obama, I'm sure Hillary would have to say the same.....

Gordo

His REAL name is Barack just like his father. He USED Barry as a nickname. My REAL name is Janet. I USE Jamie as a nickname. That isn't a lie.

Jamie----------------------

"When did Barack Obama become Barack Obama? There is now overwhelming evidence that for a significant portion of his childhood the man we now know as Barack Obama had a different legal name–he was Barry Soetoro.

When Barack/Barry’s mom, Stanley Ann Dunham married Lolo Soetoro Barack/Barry was adopted and became legally known as Barry Soetoro. Obama’s Hawaiian birth certificate was updated to reflect that fact sometime between 1965 and 1969."

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/08/16/will-barry-soetoro-be-a-problem-for-barack/

Mauro says that Phelps is winning because of his doctor ... aka doping. I told him he was cynical but he says what he is doing is not humanly possible...

You KNOW the TRUTH now, don't you! That's why you are so upset. Corsi is far more truthful than SoetorObama. That's something to think about.

PUMA

Is something wrong with the word MUSLIM? Are you a bigot?

PUMA

Jamie, thanks for keeping a list and trying to herd the cats.

tt

Gordo - I have no axe to grind with you, but I would like to suggest to you that you are not looking any better than Obama to me at this moment. I am still waiting for BOTH of you to stop talking and making promises and bad-mouthing other people and just DO
something!

Show something beside bad manners and DO something - show something or make a real detailed promise or show a concise plan with dates included.

Both of you, you and Obama, need to come across or stop the talk and get out of the way!

Good Morning,

I watched the Obama/McCain faith conversations at Saddleback. By the way, that area consists of mostly rather conservative, right leaning, financially very secure people. A lot of the Saddleback, Mission Viejo, Dana Point areas look like Disneyland, clean, new, few to no homeless and poor, an abundance
of Mercedes, Bimmers and Lexi on the streets.

I thought some of the questions and the answers Obama gave interesting.

Question: What is rich?
When Obama said any family earning 250 thousand or more, I knew he
was in trouble because in many areas of Orange County, in southern Cal,
that is considered middle class. Obama went on to restate that these
people earning 250 grand would be paying higher taxes. I know a couple of my friends and my sister have told me they won't vote for Obama because they're afraid he'll tax them too much. These people are not rich, but they
are two income families where both husband and wife are professionals.

Another question that I think might get Obama into trouble with
some undecided, working class men is when he was asked:

--Does evil exist in the world and what would you do to it?
Obama gave a rather philosophical reply and elaborated on all the
different kinds of evil in our country. (which wasn't a bad answer)

But, McCain said simply,
"I'd get rid of it or destroy it." (something really macho). His answer
plays well to the white, working class males.

j mc: "Without elaboration, he said that his greatest moral failure was his first marriage."
Ω: "Asked about his own moral failure, the Illinois senator cited his use of drugs and alcohol as a young man: "When I find myself taking the wrong step, I find that a lot of the time it is because I am trying to protect myself and not do God's work.""

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-saddleback17-2008aug17,0,140426.story

Marcia,
your 3:36 post was so informative. And insightful, since it pointed out exactly where Obama and McCain were speaking, who they were speaking to, and how these particular voters were likely to perceive what the candidates were saying (and why). Your's was the first post I read this morning and it got me off to a good start. Thanks

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/08/election-forecasts-aplenty.html#comment-128982
Tony, I honestly don't think Hillary would say the same.

There sure seems to be a lot of worry on this thread about Gordo posting what he wants to post lately. Does he really take up too much space for others here, that they can't stand to have him around?

It's so overwhelming to me that some feel so desperate to have everyone else agree with their point of view. Sharing it is great, but expecting everyone else to one hundred percent agree is asking too much. It's as if an alternative truth is terrifyingly threatening to some.

If someone wants only an undiffering view point from others, then why not just sit in front of a mirror and talk to yourself.

I actually thought McCain hads a really strong night on the religious forum. Obama seemed lackluster---
McCain has a very inspiring story and to his credit he very rarely mentions things such as his two sons are in Iraq or even talks much about his adopted daughter or his prisoner of war experiences. He discussed some of this last night and I think it was helpful. Mind you I personally don't agree with his positions but I found him personally compelling.

Myths of the Obamacans
One of the winning passages in Barack Obama’s speeches is his description of the Republicans flocking to his campaign rallies. “They whisper to me. They say: ‘Barack, I’m a Republican, but I support you.’ And I say ... ” – here Mr Obama usually lowers his voice to a stage whisper – “‘Thank you.’” The founding of Republicans for Obama this week by former congressman Jim Leach of Iowa, former senator Lincoln Chafee of Rhode Island and Rita Hauser, a former fundraiser for George W. Bush, seems merely to make official a phenomenon that is already widespread. “There is going to be a split in the Republican base on foreign policy,” Mr Chafee told reporters, “because the Bush-Cheney approach has been such a failure all over the world.”

Is this true?
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1ec8f01a-6af1-11dd-b613-0000779fd18c.html?nclick_check=1

"If someone wants only an undiffering view point from others, then why not just sit in front of a mirror and talk to yourself."

Truer words were never typed, Chloe.

"If someone wants only an undiffering view point from others, then why not just sit in front of a mirror and talk to yourself."

I wish I had said this.

CHICAGO -- "While Barack Obama and his family were sunning on the beach in Hawaii last week, it was full speed ahead at his headquarters here. When I visited for the first time, the suite of rooms on the 11th floor of a rather posh office building on North Michigan Avenue -- known as "The Magnificent Mile" -- was filled with young people, most of them engrossed with the laptops on their desks.

"...That's why I pay more attention to the registration figures than to the polls I see at this time of year," Plouffe said. "The polls will change, but we know we need 200,000 new voters to be competitive in Georgia, and now is when we have to get them."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/15/AR2008081503098.html

I didn't watch the Saddleback show because I don't like listening to either candidate, and, more importantly, I just hate that they are expected to court these evangelicals.

I may be one of a handful of committed Christians who see no need for In God We Trust on money or One nation under God in the pledge....am not even sure I think we need to be having children make daily pledges of allegiance to nationalism anyway. I'd rather they pledged to stay informed and keep their country honorable.

But my sister watched and said both McCain and Obama were good. She saw no winner coming out of that one.

My sister (a Rockefeller-style Republican) reminded me that when the Republican party was taken over by BushCo wack jobs, I advised her to stick with her party and try to take it back. She turned that advice on me, saying stick with the real Democratic party and demand that they remain true to working class issues.

I know everyone's tired of hearing about this book (and so am I) but this points out well how the garbage makes it into the main stream.

The extreme-right way to make a buck
"Jerome Corsi, author of a pitiful new slam on Obama, is the product of a publishing industry that feeds off extremism....What's far more interesting is how somebody like Corsi suddenly becomes a player in a presidential campaign. Start with the fact that the author isn't a conservative in the normal or respectable sense of that word. He's actually a regular on the far-right, hate fringe of Internet journalism, whose day job seems to be as a correspondent for a new extreme right-wing site,,,"
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-rutten16-2008aug16,0,472577.column

Have a good one!

" charter schools, publicly financed but privately run,"

Katrina couldn't have worked out better for the "destroy public schools" mindset.

Hilarious Doonesbury today:

http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/dailydose/index.html

These schools are part of a systematic destruction of the public school system. Norquist and Co.'s "starve the beast" theory.

And if you think the people running it care about "poor black folks" I got ocean front property in Kansas for you.

FIX the public school system. That is what has kept a semblance of equal opportunity alive in this country.

dog: "...retool it to make it work for black urban children. A real civil rights issue."

this sounds a tad segregationist to my integrationist ears and i agree it is a civil rights issue, a very big one.
patsi's right: "FIX the public school system. That is what has kept a semblance of equal opportunity alive in this country." fix and retool it to work for all children.

There sure seems to be a lot of worry on this thread about Gordo posting what he wants to post lately. Does he really take up too much space for others here, that they can't stand to have him around?

If someone wants only an undiffering view point from others, then why not just sit in front of a mirror and talk to yourself.

Posted by: chloe | August 17, 2008 7:20 AM

If he offered up an actual viewpoint instead of these cluster bomb links from conspiracist theorists, it would prove interesting. Just posting slash and burn links does nothing to add to the discussion in any significant way besides having us arguing if he is taking up too much space or not.

You will find that there those who are protesting his conspiracist posts include Clinton supporters past and present, and Obama supporters.

This has absolutely nothing to do with someone agreeing with my viewpoint or not.

This post was not up to your usual standard.

j mc at saddleback: "Some of the richest people I've known in my life are the most unhappy," he said. His wife applauded from the audience.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/17/uselections2008.johnmccain

Listening to Meet the Press. Guest is Secty Rice. IMO she said exactly the right things about Georgia, the EU, our place in the scheme of things, and what the Russians must do.

David Gregory did the interview--much better than what's his name.

This post was not up to your usual standard.
Posted by: EuroTom | August 17, 2008 9:11 AM

Tom, I'm sorry if I offended you. Offending someone was the furthest thing from my mind. I just want you to know that I wasn't thinking about you, or anyone in particular, when I wrote that.
.......

"I wish I had said this." Posted by: Confucius

Confucius make me laugh.

I agree that the super-hyped "youth vote" will not be, has never been , any kind of deciding factor. There are many reasons, many youth are in school and are "too busy" or otherwise preoccupied by the time the election rolls around to actually go and vote. Repuggs WILL fnd ways to discourage them, too...we all know their ways---they make it nearly impossible for a good percentage of the students wh want to vote, to do so, by limiting poll workers and making sure the polling booths close with long lines remaining...this occurred in 2004 in Ohio and it happened to my brother in Muncie, Indiana, in 1968.
Yes, Indiana is and always has been a red stronghold, and Evan Bayh is a special exception to all the repuggs in Indiana.
I have posted here a few times how I take exception to all the crap people write about Bayh. Here's an introduction:

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/I/IN_BAYH_EXECUTIVE_LEADERSHIP_INOL-?SITE=INKEN&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Good Morning- here is an article from the NYT-seeing Tougher Race Allies Ask Obama to Make Hope Specific

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/17/us/politics/17elect.html?_r=2&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&ref=politics&adxnnlx=1218979597-ADn0ZDfVqgDyVHPbDzX5rw

"If he offered up an actual viewpoint instead of these cluster bomb links from conspiracist theorists, it would prove interesting."
euro tom, perhaps he sees his viewpoint as unimportant or as an intrusion on how the rest of us individually interpret the links he provides. we need to know what the wackos are saying and what's coming at us as early as possible to make it "old news" to the msm before the ge. iow, defuse the october surprise.
also consider that his links may be a hellova lot more interesting than his viewpoints. they certainly are more "interesting" than mine and some others on this blog.

and another- Barack Obama campaign seeking "soft" money for convention

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-demfunds16-2008aug16,0,3706902.story

and another!
Key Constituency Is At Play At Candidates' Forum

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/16/AR2008081602322.html?hpid=topnews

oldsea, thanks for the wapo article link. what's this o booklet mentioned there? anyone read it? [The Obama campaign made an aggressive sales pitch at the event, distributing a 12-page booklet to the 2,200 people who streamed through Saddleback's doors that chronicled the candidate's "Christian journey" and his long relationship with Warren.]

today's theme and scripture: Matthew 6:5-6: "And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men....when thou prayest, enter into thy closet and when thou has shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret...."

patd- i'd like to see a copy of that booklet too. Wish more pols would heed your scripture of the day!

"Patsi: what if it's not fixable, as was the case with the New Orleans schools? I have yet to see anyone distraught that was existed is gone. You can get a bureaucracy that's hidebound, teachers feeling overwhelmed and schools that are old and expensive to maintain and repair..."

Let's just privatize everything and be done with it. The hell with "the American way."

The Republicans LOVED Katrina. It provided cover for their BS.

12 hours of sleep later and I am still tired.

Patd

the wackos are only interesting whemn you can pin their wackyness on your opponent. Otherwise they ae like the flying saucer folks or model train enthusiast. I mostly smile nod and hope they go to someone else and explain the details of their hobby. Gordos ramblings fall into that category IMO they are not serious attack except to those who are looking for a bit of sillyness to believe. There are time when I don't think Gordo believes it himself he is just trolling.

Jack

Corey

Take care of your self today. You've been under a lot of stress the last week.

peace and quiet time

Jack

Hope to find more regarding this subject, but here is what I have so far

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/08/17/obamas-republicans/

"Why don't you read it and we can discuss the merits later this week?"

Agreed, dog. Because I think you and I share the same concerns about the public school system. Just differ on the answers.

Good morning all

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/08/election-forecasts-aplenty.html#comment-129013

Hey Chloe
If any politician could ever be the exception it would be Hillary! I just hate that the evangelicals have to be pandered to in this manner.I especially hate that it seems with these folks its perfectly ok to deny gay people equal rights and use religion as the excuse! Hello,marriage is a civil institution unless you choose to make it religous!!As I said utter BS

What would have been Gordo's reception here had he been pointing out that Edwards was having an affair all that time when certain ones were pulling for Edwards?

Gordo is forecasting. Might be better for certain ones to pay heed.

Chloe,

I'm so glad you liked my post about the Saddleback forum. In regard to your post about allowing all posters their opinions, I tend to agree with you in the since that I think you and I like to stir up the pot a bit by bringing in links or ideas from several viewpoints.

I'm this way because as a college professor I absolutely cannot bring in just one side of an issue or political belief these days--deans are becoming very sensitive to complaints about professors who are pushing an agenda. Deans are very PC in that regard. There are a surprising number of Republican, right wingers attending college. We Dems sometimes think all college students are liberals, but they aren't.

Jamie and dog,
You both are bringing up some astute comments about our broken education
system. I'm writing a book about the subject right now and appreciate
your ideas. I might add that some charter schools that started in California
were closed down because of embezzlement and other nefarious activities.
But, that's not to say some charters can't work. There's no one silver
bullet to fix the numerous problems with the educational failures in the U.S.
We have one of the highest dropout rates of all industrialized countries.

"IMO they are not serious attack except to those who are looking for a bit of sillyness to believe."
jack, that's exactly what i thot about when the swift boaters attacked. stupid, silly, attack a war hero?
they gotta be kidding... but it was too late in the campaign to put up a good counterattack. one thing about o's mo, counterattacks have been swift and loud, even against the silliest stuff.

I wasn't impressed with either candidate at the Warren Forum.

I thoght Obama was going to fall asleep and I kept thinking that McCain was going to start crying.

What a terrible choice these two would be if they are nominated!

No problem Chloe. Like I said, I know we are not all in agreement, and I just wanted to be clear that my challenge to the suspect web links was the usual conspiracist crap that is spreading around and yet nothing can be confirmed. So my point is, look at who is behind these websites and postings and ask "is this at all credible"? Remember all the Larry Johnson B.S.? Mr. G was on that day in and out "any day now the video will be released"... NADA... This is the crap I get so tired of, certainly not dissent :-)

Prof Marcia

"These people are not rich, but they are two income families where both husband and wife are professionals."

Tell your sister she may need to get out and take a peek at the real world. California is expensive, but it is not five times the median income for a family of four expensive and that is the economic level where she lives.

I don't begrudge her the money in any fashion, but any family with a before tax income of $250,000 is in the top 5% of income in the United States.

Chloe

"It's so overwhelming to me that some feel so desperate to have everyone else agree with their point of view. Sharing it is great, but expecting everyone else to one hundred percent agree is asking too much. It's as if an alternative truth is terrifyingly threatening to some. "

Gordo comes under the heading of "all that is necessary for evil to exist is for good people to do nothing". For months he has been spewing weird, racist, conspiracy loaded messages cut and pasted from some of the worst purveyors on the net of such stuff. He isn't a Clinton supporter no matter how often he types out PUMA.

Failure to stand up to this garbage is to silently accept it. Just as I attacked the Corsi book, I have to take a stand at regular intervals against Gordo because to allow his words to go unchallenged is to grant them validity.

Hi Jamie,

I agree, of course, that families earning 250 grad a year are financially
upscale. My point was, I think, that not everyone has the same idea of what "rich" is. I merely was pointing out that Obama may be losing some Dems
because they are afraid they will be taxed too much. It's something
to consider, that's all.

But, certain areas of California are much more expensive than others. Not
all of California is economically the same.

Many areas in Orange County--Lake Forest where Saddleback is and Laguna Hills, Dana Point, Mission Viejo, Laguna Beach are extremely expensive. Most decent family homes start around a million dollars, just for an average house.

Note:

By the way, I'm not implying that I agree with people who aren't voting
for Obama because they fear he wants to tax their 250 thousand a year.
I have other issues with Mr. Obama.

As far as taxes go, every time I walk in the park near my house I'm glad
taxes pay to keep it nice. And, when I was in a car accident a few months
ago, I was thankful for the police and fireman who saved me. When the
roads around my neighborhood are re-surfaced, I realize taxes pay for
it. All the social programs that help the poor and the new no-kill animal
shelters are paid for by taxes. I get it. I'm not a Repub, you know.

Marcia

The house my ex and I bought in 1964 for $21,000 sold recently for a half million. It was a nice little 4 bedroom 2 bath track home with a good sized yard, but a long way from a McMansion.

Real estate in California is completely insane, but that is what happens when you try to put 35 million people in a half desert state that was barely able to support 15 million. All they had to do was pave over most of the agricultural land and steal water from all the surrounding states.

I love my native state, but they should have seceded from the union, put a fence around the whole thing thirty years ago, and required passports and visas for entry. :-)

It is a classic example of how a whole lot of bad decisions can ruin paradise.

Jamie, Marcia, with regard to your what is rich discussion, etc., here is a "Summary of Federal Invididual income tax data" for 2006 ((latest release by IRS)

Have always thought that when income levels are discussed it is useful to know the real $ amounts that are attributed to each percentile, not just the %

As to defining what is rich---it is probably in the eye of the beholder.

Top 1% taxpayers with AGI over $388,806; avg tax rate - 22.79%

Top 5% taxpayers with AGI over $153,542; avg tax rate - 20.68%

Top 10% taxpayers with AGI over $108,904; avg. tax rate 18.86%

Top 25% taxpayers with AGI over $64,702; avg. tax rate
15.95%

Top 50% taxpayers with AGI over $31,987; avg. tax rate
13.98%

Bottom 50% AGI less than $31,987; avg tax rate 3.01%

The tax foundation also has information on the state by state breakdown of tax rates/payments.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/250.html

tract home

Nice Huffington Post article. Did someone just wake up and notice that the attack against Clinton was all the old Republican hate speech and accusations? Or, more likely, did they choose to ignore it because it served their purpose even if it was totally dishonest.

This MSM created "war" between the Obama and Clinton camps is a complete myth perpetrated for the sake of ratings and making McCain look electable. Looking at the national polls, it has been pretty darn effective, but who did all the Obama supporters attack?

Any time all media sources start using the same tag lines, look for the person behind the curtain not the boogeyman of the Great Oz that they want you to see.

I have been watching the polls and looking at different web sites and I agree that OR and WA are going democratic but in just the past few weeks Obama's edge in some states is evaporating. Please look at www.electoral-vote.com. Just last month it had Obama leading in states which would give him over 300 electoral votes and now it is down to 275 just 5 over the necessary number. This is not a republican website and the democrat gets every doubt.

I think in the end that it will come down to just a few swing states but Obama will foreshadow his strategy with his vp pick. If it is Kaine then he wants to add VA and possibly NC to his total but would probably be giving up any chance in FL OH or MO. This pick may also throw MI into the toss up category. If he picks Richardson then he is going after NM, NV, CO but really is giving up on NC, FL, OH and MIand VA become iffy. Bayh will put IN in play and may help in MO and OH but not much in VA or the West. Biden does not really bring a state or states but may help lend Obama some gravitas. If Clinton then Obama is putting more states in play. FL, MI, OH, NV, MO and it possibly affects AR, TN and WV.

I know Obama won't pick Clinton because he is sure that he is going to win without her and because if he doesn't he can always blame her. He might be able to win without her on the ticket but if he wants to get help with the voters over 45 then he should put her on the ticket. This election is close in a year that it should not be close at all. That should tell the Obama campaign something but I do not believe they are listening.

Don't the super rich have tax advantages the majority of Americans aren't
able to utilize? Aren't there tax shelters and tax right-offs that lower
the amount of taxes the wealthy have to actually pay?

I spoke to a wealthy lawyer/lobbyist who told me neither he nor his rich father paid much in taxes, both earned over 2 million a year. I probably should have
turned him into to the IRS, now that I think of it.

EuroTom -------------------------

"Remember all the Larry Johnson B.S.? Mr. G was on that day in and out "any day now the video will be released"... NADA... "

Larry Johnson NEVER claimed the video would be released any day.

I NEVER claimed the video would be released any day. It was my hope.

Please show me where that claim was made. Can you back up your statement?

===============================

You asked this question:

"what the hell is "COLB" anyway?

Posted by: EuroTom Author Profile Page | August 15, 2008 3:16 PM"

This was pogo's answer:

"ET, Certificate Of Live Birth.

Posted by: pogo Author Profile Page | August 15, 2008 3:22 PM"

==============================

The COLB story has been on the net since mid - June. I have made countless posts on this blog about the COLB. After 2 months you still did not know even the most basic fact. How do you feel comfortable being so critical when you know zero about the subject?

Alternative media is not tin-foil world. Have you ever ventured into tin-foil world? There are many serious investigators in the alternative media. Just because something is not covered by MSM doesn't mean that it is wrong or doesn't exist.

Marcia

The top multi millionaires frequently pay less in taxes than the upper middle class folks in the $100.000 - $500,000 range simply because they have access to tax free instruments not available to lower income people. Your friend was probably totally legal.

Our tax policies are completely insane and even the IRS doesn't understand them. It would probably be a good idea to wipe out the whole thing and reconstruct it from scratch rather than twiddling around all the edges.

"This MSM created war between the Obama and Clinton camps is a complete myth. . ."
posted by Jamie

I agree. Also, all those conspiracy theories that Hillary is going to sabotage the Democratic convention are silly and only meant to stir up trouble so that the media and Clinton haters will have fresh reasons to muster up outrage toward Bill and Hill.

Coreen,

Thanks for your post citing the Federal Income Tax data!

Jamie ----------------------------------------

"Gordo comes under the heading of "all that is necessary for evil to exist is for good people to do nothing". For months he has been spewing weird, racist, conspiracy loaded messages cut and pasted from some of the worst purveyors on the net of such stuff. He isn't a Clinton supporter no matter how often he types out PUMA."

You are wrong. I'm a Hillary supporter - 100%.

The Repubs are staying very quiet about the COLB story. PUMAs are working on this now.

As I said to ET, it helps to know the subject. I doubt that many of you on this blog have gone into the details of Obama' life. It's not easy - much of his past has been scrubbed and fabricated. I realize that seems fantastic - it did to me when I began this effort.

Gordo

If you were truly a Hillary supporter you would never go hear those sites again and we wouldn't hear anything more from you about trumped up Obama lies. There is more than enough about his actual career to be leery about without hunting down phantoms. When you consider that Hillary herself has called for unity and for you people to shut up, you would think that you might listen to the candidate that you supposedly support.

Speaking of California, I'm watching "Devil In A Blue Dress" for the upteenth time. Love all the scenes of post war Los Angeles. Great movie.

Much of the objection, as early as April/May, to Hillary pressing on to the convention in spite of the numbers against her was based upon the fear and expectation that the right MSM (i.e. FOX) would exploit any hint of division within the Dem party and not a hatred or outrage towards Hill and Bill.

Furthermore, Hillary's inclusion at the convention, short of being nominated as VP, was a no-win prop for Obama.
Take a look at Cavuto.

"And if his presidential metal wasn’t tested enough…Barack Obama caves to Hillary Clinton and allows a roll call vote. He’s doing it for all good and decent reasons. But nothing good or decent will come of it….her supporters still don’t flip over him, no matter what he does to accommodate them."

I know it's Cavuto (lol, for G Man)

Rez

That extended campaign kept all the MSM at bay while Obama improved. As long as FOX et al concentrated on the Clintons they weren't wailing on Obama. Don't be too sure that both political teams weren't playing patty cake long before the last primary was counted.

Coreen,

Do you have figures showing the total tax burden folks actually bear, I mean, what percentage of gross income goes for one tax or another. The percentages would of course vary from state-to-state and municipality-to-municipality.

Another interesting statistic would be how much of their total wealth do people actually fork over to Sam in the form of estate taxes? I would guess it's a parabolic curve.

Back until Mr Reagan became president, the wealthy and the rest of us generally had the same deductions available to us. Then things started to change. Just consider the deductibility of credit card and installment sales interest. Used to be able to do that, The well to do have relatively low carried balances on these times of loans compared to us. Instead, they have deductible jumbo mortgages and tax shelters with high entry points.

Jamie--------------------

Was Obama adopted?

Was his name legally changed to Barry Soetoro?

Did he receive a Muslim education ?

How is this a smear? There is overwhelming evidence that he is lying about his past? It's even impossible to find out which hospital he was born in - two have been listed. Don't play the race/religion card on me. That's not what this is about.

Just tell the American people the TRUTH!

times = types

Jamie,
I agree that debates help candidates and I think Obama benefited greatly, but the downside with the extended nastiness, in this case, is the McCain talking points coming directly out of Hillary's attacks.

"If you were truly a Hillary supporter you would never go hear those sites again and we wouldn't hear anything more from you about trumped up Obama lies."
jamie, are you including in your reprimand oldseahag and some others on this blog who are ardent and active hrc supporters? it wouldn't surprise me if there weren't even a few o followers who've looked at those forbidden sites now and then. is visiting these sites analogous to eating the apple in the garden of eden?

Dateline: Olympics, China

The thick, cut-it-with-a-knife smog doesn't seem to have hurt the U.S.

World record setting times by Michael Phelps and a record setting 8 Golds in swimming.

The Williams sisters = Gold in Tennis.

Women's fencing = historic sweep.

Men's fencing = 1st metal (Silver) since 1948.

Analysis:

The U.S. team thrives on smog & deadly air pollution.

tt

Rez

Those "talking points" were there to use before the campaign ever began. Those points and a whole lot worse would have been used by the Republicans whether or not Sen. Clinton ever said any of them. Just take a look at the ATlantic article for the ones she refused to use.

That is another plus for Sen. Obama. Now if the Republicans try to use some form of the strange, foreign, not quite American line in the campaign, it is already refuted as dirty politics at the least and overt racism at the worst.

It should only work on the most racist or wacko percentage of the party which isn't enough to sway an election.

hope all of our crawdads living in florida are all set with their preparations. looks like fay will be there as early as tuesday.

oops, forgot to link the projected path map
http://www.weather.com/maps/news/atlstorm6/projectedpath_large.html

patd

I've visited those sites. Nothing wrong with taking a look at the crud they spew out. Their reputations as right wing shill meisters were made a long time before Hillary Clinton ever ran for anything, they are just riding her popularity for the blog hits.

Campaigns are costly trial and error propositions. McCain had his focus group research bought and paid for by Hillary.

Hillary may have balked at Penn's suggestions and I give her credit for doing so, but most of that trash was getting out there through her surrogates. And continues today. They're not all RNC shills.

Rez

"Campaigns are costly trial and error propositions. McCain had his focus group research bought and paid for by Hillary."

I'm sure McCain and/or the Republicans were able to scrounge up more than enough dirt all by their lonesome. Both parties have people for whom that sort of thing is a full time job.

Flatus,

There is lots of data at the Tax Foundation website--interesting info.

This may answer your question about what % of tax goes toward various items---Average dollar tax burdens by type of federal tax, per household,
calendar year 2004.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/23340.html

Listen Jamie, I'm not setting the Obama campaign up as a losing effort and trying to blame Hillary; as much as Patsi will protest.
But, like you, I think there are many reasons for him not out distancing JM in a year he should and this long protracted battle helped along by the media is just one.

Despite being pessimistic (real) about the American electorate, He'll make it.

Rez

And I still say he missed a major campaign coup by not immediately naming her as his VP. Now the whole "selection process" has dragged out for so long that if he names anyone else they are going to look like a wimpy, boring second or third choice and about as exciting as pablum.

The Repubs will be relentless in their attack. Some members of the DNC and Congress (I'll name Claire McCaskill) know about SoetorObama's hidden past. When this story breaks, there is the real potential that not only SoetorObama, but the entire Dem party will be taken down with him. You refuse to look at even the established facts of SoetorObama's life. The Repubs have the documents and are waiting.

Flatus,

This may give you the info about estate tax collections, by state & per capita for 2006.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/997.html

Thanks very much Coreen. The links you gave also pointed to the Tax Foundation Working Paper No. 1 which really seems interesting. I have my work cut out for me!

Dog

You are missing the point. I am not cheerleading Hillary as VP. I'm saying that if what is wanted is an exciting steam roller of a campaign ending with a huge mandate, that was the way to go. If what is wanted is a lay low do next to nothing to rattle the status quo and settle for a squeeked out Dem victory, then pick someone else.

"seriously, I hear more cheerleading for Hillary as VP, I am going to vomit."
dog, is that a promise or just rhetoric? and does this mean that if she is selected for vp you will not vote for Ω? how many of them are out there, in your opinion, who hate her so much that they will dump him if she's on the ticket?

" I would not be on the internet all day slamming her, even though she's not my preference,"

And just WHERE have you seen this. Here it is pretty much GORDO or a couple of our resident Republicans.

This tendency of Obama supporters to mush everything together into one huge weight they must carry as their liberal burden gets a little tiring as well. Anyone who is not leaping up and down overjoyed at his ascendancy is somehow the enemy rather than just a neutral party that plans to vote for him as an "oh well it's the right letter after his name" candidate.

Be happy you get the vote. Keep slamming the "oh well" yawners and they could decide to just sleep in.

If I learned one thing this week, it was to not give up on the good in people. A gem I read this morning:

"When the pain of hanging on becomes greater than the fear of letting go, you will let go."

Corey

Great quote and very, very true.

Portraying me as a dim witting white house apologist is pretty damned insulting.

-deans are becoming very sensitive to complaints about professors who are pushing an agenda. Prof Marcia 10:39 AM

Marcia,
I was impressed to hear that the Deans are discouraging professors from pushing their own agenda. Give them the facts and let them decide for themselves.

What you said about "stir up the pot a bit" is probably true ...I've wondered for a while if I don't do that sometimes. But I've never seen you do that.
..................

Since this is a couple days old, maybe everyone else except me has already read it, but..........

Half of House Dems may vote Hillary
"Another New York delegate, speaking on condition of anonymity, predicted that as much as 30 percent to 40 percent of the New York delegation would pick Clinton over Obama during the symbolic vote."

Said Sanchez: “I believe there are a lot of supporters for Hillary among the superdelegates, especially now that they’ve agreed to place her name in nomination. I think half the House Democrats would probably be Hillary supporters, especially women. ... I felt she was the most experienced and the best candidate and I still feel that way.”
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12565.html

"....marriage is a civil institution unless you choose to make it religous." tonyb39 10:36 AM

Tony, I feel the same way about it.

"...to allow his words to go unchallenged is to grant them validity." Posted by: Jamie: | August 17, 2008 11:54 AM

Jamie, I haven't seen you say much about Gordo. And if you do, I certainly would not fault you for it. That wasn't the point of what I was saying (which is of course, is only my opinion). I've also seen Craig say many times that we welcome everyones opinion here.

I don't think ignoring someone is granting them validity. As a matter of fact, I think just the opposite is true. But when I wrote what I wrote, it wasn't meant as a criticism to anyone, and I'm not interested in changing anyone's mind. When I wrote that, it was what I was thinking and so I said it. I was simply saying that I believe in free speech, and I support free speech for EVERYONE here.

Dog, reg. "GORDO's not an advocate. He's a destroyer." There's no way that Gordo can destroy anything. Give the people who read this blog a little more credit than that. I don't know about you, but I don't even read the links. It's just words. Words can't destroy anyone unless we let them.

McCain's back in the Saddleback
From NBC's Chuck Todd

"Quick first impressions: Obama spent more time trying to impress Warren (or to put another away) not offend Warren while McCain seemingly ignored Warren and decided he was talking to folks watching on TV. The McCain way of handling this forum is usually the winning way. Obama may have had more authentic moments but McCain was impressively on message."

"Obama better be thankful for the timing of this; he seemed a little rusty and clearly has some work to do before he meets McCain face-to-face on Sept. 26, the night of the first presidential debate in Oxford, MS."
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/08/16/1270330.aspx

"re 4:27: Dana Perrino couldn't have said it better.

Fleeing."

BS.

"Indeed, many Hillary diehards, including at least one member of the New York delegation, are reluctant to vote for Clinton after switching over to Obama."

No shit. O's already proven himself as thin skinned and vindictive as W.

McCain As Good As Obama Was Bad

"I do think McCain had a clear and decisive victory over Obama. ...“Instead of giving big speeches at big stadiums, he needs to give straight-up 10-word answers to people at Wal-Mart about how he would improve their lives.”

By that standard, McCain did extremely well and Obama did very poorly. McCain's answers were direct, confident and, most importantly, serious."

But I also think that it's worth noting that Obama wasn't just bad, but that McCain was very good. He was the perfect balance of likable and serious. He also came across as informed, offered far more policy specifics than Obama ..."

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NGIwYmQwNjVlNDAwYjRlOGFkOGViMzdhYTgwMjg3MDg=

Ten things above Obama's pay grade

1. Cogency, concision, and conviction.
2. Ease of manner without a teleprompter.
3. Maintenance of American defense systems.
4. Pro-American assertions.
5. Rejection of moral and cultural relativism.
6. Decision-making.
7. Qualification to lead the United States.
8. Loyalty.
9. Respecting America and her symbols.
10. Understanding Christian doctrine.

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/08/ten_things_above_obamas_pay_gr.html

Republicans Holding Info on Obama: Super Delegate ALERT

"There have been a series of recent reports and odd statements from various sources that lead me to believe that the Republicans are holding on tightly to information that will rapidly sink Obama IF he secures the Democratic nomination. And that the information will reveal that Obama has been deceptive about his background and his eligibility for POTUS."

http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/08/17/republicans-have-ethical-duty-to-disclose-info-on-obama-now/

been reading the weekend comments, and must say that i continue to wonder if the lack of generosity between Obama and Clinton folk will be the Democratic Party's undoing in this election. i'd think the Obama crowd would bend over backwards to accomodate the losers, but far from it. if this is at all reflective of the whole, McCain is in very good shape

yep, i stand by those words for sure, dog's eye. and the Obama side has played into her hands more stupidly than i ever imagined. Hating her has only made her stronger

to the Obama folk i'd say, you could have killed her with kindness. but that moment is long lost

I admire Jamie for being a loyal Democrat, her candidate lost and she is over it and looking on to the GE. Not easy in this climate. VP speculation until one is picked isi appropriate. IMHO If Obama had been as concerned about Party unity he would have picked her for VP straight away and given us all time to heal and regroup by the Convention.

Obama’s Christian Journey

"Obama decided that it was important to hand out a 12 page booklet to the 2,200 people who streamed through Saddleback’s doors that chronicled the candidate’s “Christian journey” and his long relationship with Reverend Rick Warren (ahem! all of two years!). It may have been an aggressive move but, not very smart! The specter of Reverend Jeremiah Wright is upon us once more!

Let’s roll those clips!"

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/08/17/obamas-christian-journey/

Again,

WHO is saying that Sen. Obama's win is illegitimate? It really seems that the Obama supporters read some newspaper article or listen to some pundit making noise and then assume that every Clinton supporter subscribes to those sentiments.

To my mind just reading their materials, I think most of the supposed PUMA sites are closeted Republicans trying to stir up dissention. They are being enormously successful. At least that is what all the mailings I get asking for donations to McCain are saying.

If you have paid any attention to anything I've written, you would know that I backed the roll call simply because I've always considered it part of the elective process. Why bother to hold a convention at all if those votes aren't important? Just throw it on the junk heap of history with hand counted paper ballots and let Diebold decide who lives at 1600. We won't even have to bother with voting, just go buy Coca Cola or Pepsi and let the sales figures add up.

I'm totally at peace with the idea of Sen. Obama becoming President, but I think both his campaign and supporters made serious errors not so much in the way they treated the vocal Clinton supporters, but in the way they seemed to dismiss as unimportant the part of the population that voted for her.

Well, whatever their culture, those people need to be brought into the fold and treating them like ignorant rubes isn't going to get them to the ballot box.

"I don't think you would have seen this drama in previous elections. A lot of it is due to the gender factor and the youth/perceived inexperience factor."

Yep...a post menopausal woman and a young man bursting with virility. Damn, I wish I had that sort of insight.

"But the dictating of the terms, rather than turning on the soft skills -- not a good tactic."

Again, You don't know this has happened. I know I've heard a lot of so called pundits quoting so called campaign insiders saying that so and so is angry or so and so is demanding or so and so is refusing to cooperate. All of it to stir up ratings, viewers, readers, or donations.

To me it sounds like a whole lot of people who know nothing keeping their mouths moving in order to hang on to their jobs and fill air time or news columns.

"This did not have to happen."

No. Hillary and her 18 million voters could have just said, "We bow at the feet of this modern day savior, recognize his followers' moral superiority, and beg forgiveness for not "seeing" that change -- no matter what that means, is well, just cosmic as hell.

To me it sounds like a whole lot of people who know nothing keeping their mouths moving in order to hang on to their jobs and fill air time or news columns.

Ain't that the truth!!

Craig

lol
You just had to get in the middle of it, didn't ya.

I think things will start settling down now that proper respect has been paid. There are always your buddies out there that will be looking for a juicy quote from the big Dawg but as the campaign swings into action those will just become gossip column items.

Obama needs to do something that is not just reacting to Republican talking points.
So far in the last week he has been in reactive mode. McCain seems to have found the levers on Obama That work. Obama needs to find some of his own that work.
In the end it is a few suburban voters in a few battle ground states that will decide this election. Address ther concerns ,hopes and desires and you win.

Jack

hey sturge
the weather man said last night's full moon is known as the sturgeon moon. how's it feel to have a moon named after you?

Sturgeone moon, keep on shinein' on me.

Hope you are enjoying your break. I've taken a few my self.

Jack

Screeching about the machinations of the DNC is not the same thing as attacking Senator Obama.

This conflating of unrelated actions is as silly as Gordo claiming that Obama using a nickname he fails to mention on his legal papers is some sort of massive, criminal cover up.

The DNC is a mess. The party hirearchy has moved so far left as to be unrecognizeable by about 3/4 of the population of the nation. They pulled some very heavy handed maneuvers that were totally unnecessary and as a result alienated a lot of loyal and hard working members. I'm honestly more angry with Dean, Brazille, and company than I have ever been with anyone on the Obama team (other than Axelrod of course).

A version of this Bill Monroe song that I had never heard

Tom Petty - Blue Moon of Kentucky (acoustic)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HyVzMDywNY

Jack

"Full Sturgeon Moon - August The fishing tribes are given credit for the naming of this Moon, since sturgeon, a large fish of the Great Lakes and other major bodies of water, were most readily caught during this month. A few tribes knew it as the Full Red Moon because, as the Moon rises, it appears reddish through any sultry haze. It was also called the Green Corn Moon or Grain Moon."

My wife just told me Blazing Saddles is on CMT, guess I'll go see how many scenes get the ax

Jack

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upvZdVK913I

As my Aunt said to my Mom this weekend:

"I'm not like you. I can't forgive and I can't forget."

It's been 14 years, people. 14 years of anger.

Dog - yes, of course, graciousness goes two ways, but it needs to start at the top, from the person who can afford it more. That means from the winner. That may not seem fair, and it might grate and rub sore like holy hell, but presidents have to be able to handle grating and soreness. That's why it's best to be gracious when you can afford it because one day you won't be able to afford it - and the past will haunt you. Right now, Obama can't afford not to be gracious. I think it's the Chicago machine - Obama might be willing to be gracious, but I'll bet they won't let him. Machines work best in counties because not all their tricks can be seen, but in a national election with international importance, decisions and behaviour get way more scrutiny.

No matter how hard it is, or how much it goes against the grain, teeth have to be gritted and graciousness has to be shown to opponents. That's not my dictate or Jamie's or Craig's - it's being proved right now in front of our eyes.

"she's not a factor anymore"

Wanna bet?

More charm. I haven't been complaining, and I certainly haven't been demanding anyone approach my posterior. I've been stating what I believe would be the most successful action to insure a Democratic win in November.

You are the one who does the majority of the name calling, moaning, whining, complaining, and general bitching about everybody and everything that doesn't quite measure up to your demands as "Mark My Words" has been demonstrating for two solid days.

Were you planning on adding more quotes to his or her collection?

Boo!

A bc'er complaining about whine
The definition of irony.

Champ
Good to see you man!! Been wondering about you.

Jamie----------------------

" ...as as silly as Gordo claiming that Obama using a nickname he fails to mention on his legal papers is some sort of massive, criminal cover up."

Was Barack Obama adopted by Lolo Soetoro?

Was his name legally changed to Barry Soetoro?

Was his original Hawaii birth certificate sealed, and a new one was issued in the name of Barry Soetoro?

If his name was legally changed to Barry Soetoro and he did not legally change it back to Barack Obama - Barack Obama is Barry Soetoro, not Barack Obama.

The new Hawaii BC in the name of Barry Soetoro is believed to be the reason a fake COLB was created using the name Barack Obama.

(There is a possibility that the name on the original BC is Barry Dunham - if his parents were not married.)

"Well, what do we got here? Looks like a bunch of Kansas City faggots!"

My favorite line.

Oh, and thanks all, just poppin' in 'cuz I'm bored, and I'm only bored because I have a migraine, which renders me pretty much useless save for computer related frivolity. Hope you guys are doing well. From perusing the discussion, it seems as if the joint benefits from the lack of my cynicism, so don't mind me. Now I get to watch Blazing Saddles in Youtube form, so thanks, Jack, the resident OGKCF.

Hi Champ. Hope you feel better soon.

Dog
I will vote for Sen.Obama here in Florida cause I don't want McCain and no amount of Hillary slaming will change that.I think you are swell even though we disagree,but I get pissed off when I read some of your bullshit about Hillary which you are very much welcome to post....

Thanks, Jamie. I'm used to them. No big deal.

"We are still working on a response to the media hysteria triggered by Barack Obama's latest pamphlet of lies, titled "Unfit for Publication," attacking one of my competing authors. I don't make a habit of supporting my competitors because they are, after all, taking money out of my pocket. Proceeds from my book all go to the anti-Obama movement, not my personal enrichment. But because Obama's "defense" against "lies" is a new set of his own lies, I feel I should respond."

http://contrariancommentary.blogspot.com/

Ladies? Funny.

Well! as if Race was not enough . . .

"Liar" has just been inserted into the campaign lexicon by . . . Guess Who? . . . Barack Obama.

I believe he was "angered" by the claims/assertions against him of an anti-abortion group. I've yet to hear/see the whole basis for the 'tude. If it's a stretch or exaggeration or distortion or mis-interpretation or half-truth or politically-calculated ad, that's within the lothesome rules of the game. If we're going to elevate the jardon to lies, and by association, those who represent them to Liars, then watch out for glass houses! When Lies and Liars start being hurled back and forth, Barack loses, not least of which because he has been baited.

Does anyone know the full background for this eruption?

John Hogue: As to your inquiry:

Does anyone know the full background for this eruption?

In all likelihood it may be an interview Obama gave to a CBN reporter regarding proposed legislation that was blocked while an Illinois state senator.

You may want to check this National Review article which provides the background, links to the interview about the legislation, Obama's comments, etc.

"Life Lies" by David Freddoso (I think that Freddoso may be the author of a recently released book about Obama that may be not all that flattering)

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZTBkYTYzZDNjNDgyMWJmMzMxYzljYjYxNmEwMTdhYWE=&w=MQ==

Oops.......

Coreen:

Well, it appears that Obama doth protest too much. Thanks for the perspective provided by the link. Who said that voting "Present" has no consequences. At any rate, it seems a weak point for which to invoke the "L" word.