Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Good morning All

Julie

Craig, I agree . Hillary would be most interesting. But I am of two minds about her being Veep.

Two of Hillary's delegates of of operation. S. Tubbs Jones is in Hospital near Cleveland. DIane Feinstein broke ankle and will not be at convention.

julie

good morning, julie
lardassl was right about us yesterday, we were like flys on dead meat with mudcat (no offense to mud meant). a little too much sycophantic?

A sycophant will everything admire: Each verse, each sentence, sets his soul on fire. --Dryden.

with all those hrc noshow delegates cropping up or being replaced by o's, me suspects foul play afoot. or at least ennui.

Patd

Mudcat will be back. Craig assured us he is trying to get Mudcat more savvy to the captcha/typekey. I think he would be interesting, perhaps he will show up today on the live show. Yes, it was a wee bit rough.

julie

Julie, I don´t like the fact that every day U are 1st!

MEH!

Hey Jason

Now I have not been first for a long time.. I enjoy reading your morning comments, so I just stay quiet.

NY times article on Sebelius.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/20/us/politics/20sebelius.html

Correct me if I am wrong Craig and everyone else,
But I think we are guilty of continuously keeping HRC´s name mentioned.
In every discussion we have this name creeps up. Even the haterators (quoting Mary J Blige) cannot seem to discuss without naming her and still quoting. Mainstream media cannot make a report about the elections without the mention of her in abilities...

The election quality is gone. The change mantra is tired and the drama is behind us.
The real work will start now and the chosen one will see what the rewards of being a foul player are..

All hail the Queen!

Hey Jason

Now I have not been first for a long time.. I enjoy reading your morning comments, so I just stay quiet.

NY times article on Sebelius.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/20/us/politics/20sebelius.html

Posted by: julie young | August 20, 2008 6:24 AM

Hahahahhahaha. I am just fooling around Julie :-)

The "punditocracy's big argument against Hillary as VP has been, and remains, "What does Obama do about Bill?"

I don't think they've been paying attention. Bill has been slapped down pretty well in this campaign, and if he hasn't yet gotten the message, I think one more slap from either Hillary or a President Obama would give him the message that he's no longer the Big Dog, and he'd better stay on the porch until he's called.

Then again, some dogs learn quicker than others.

Truly, I wonder if Obama does not have Hillary as Vp
what the polls will show. The others all seem lackluster against Senator Clinton. Will there be a rise in his polls or a dip?

Perhaps Obama should sit on the porch until he learns how to run with the big dawg/dawgs.

I've always been of the mind that the Obama Party can not afford to lose in November w/o Hillary on the ticket. If that should happen, Party control would revert back to the Clintons and Obama would be over. If they lose with her on the ticket, she would be a loser, too and He would keep Party control.

Craig, do you know if Obama's Full name will be on the Presidential Ballot nationally?

Whoa, Nader phoned Politico and says Obama will name Hillary Clinton.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12652.html

Good morning lovely people! I'm a little late today. Interesting topic. Hillary is the best choice for VP and would definitely make the DEM ticket a happier choice for me and most of my friends.

John H,

You're probably right for 2012, an Obama loss without Hillary on the ticket could give her the upper hand in the next presidential go-round, but Barack has youth on his side, and might rise again as a party senior statesman in 2020.

Hillary still has to worry about being blamed for an Obama loss whether she is on the ticket or not.

Time to Play 20 questions!

Make your citizen voter's voice heard!

http://www.walkamileinourshoes.org/play20questions.html

Whoa, Nader phoned Politico and says Obama will name Hillary Clinton.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12652.html

Posted by: julie young | August 20, 2008 6:48 AM

Interesting!

But please don´t let it be true.....

EdVB:
I do not share the notion that the Clintons will get the blame if Barack loses without her on the ticket. With all the issues and the electorate trending Democratic; for the Party's Super-Delegates ignoring that Barack's primary victory was built on wins in states Dems had no prayer of winning in the Fall; for the Party's Liberal Wing being so desparate to be back in control that they ignored the apparent preferences of the electorates in their respective states; for all Obama's historic fundraising and new voters' registrations; for his fairytale win-without-Ohio-Mi-Fla-PA? scenario and for his refusal/inability to co-exist and manage the Clintons or to least manage His fear of them, or to select Hillary as his VP, He will have earned his victory or loss Himself.

John H,

I'm not saying it would be Hillary's fault, just that she has to worry about being blamed.

As I think I've said here before, it's Barack's job to convince Hillary's supporters, independent voters, and enough others to vote for him.

ALERT ALERT ALERT....

Bloomberg is now reporting (just a second ago) that according to the latest poll McCain and Obama are deadlocked! BO 42%, JmC 41%.....

MEH :-)

This should make for a day full of arguments. LOL!

Ooooops
Forgot the link

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601073&sid=amRoky_J7uO0&refer=election

So, is Ralph Nader than right, or is he just trying to create more chaos within DNC?

Obama should pick Madonna for VP

McCain should pick Jack Black

McCain is announcing his pick right after the DEM convention -- that'll serve to suck the bounce right out of Denver -- shades of 2004. What if he picks Condi?

Bowman -- LOL! But would that mean Jack Black is a GOP? Say it ain't so!

You know, I'm just sitting here watching a talking head from Time on C-Span talking about, you guessed it, potential Dem VP candidates.

What a waste of words.

All of which makes me think about both party's nominating processes. An incredible waste of resources, abuse of contributors' dollars, a constant drain on our secret service and local police resources, and, entirely a process that has the net effect of discouraging potential voters from the process.

It's something like asking about a potential surgery and having the doctor give you more information than you really wanted to hear.

I hope beyond hope that we never again go through such a protracted process.

And, in fairness, I must say the Dems have been much more profligate than the Repugs.

Condi has name recognition but so does salmonella. She is, at the least, useless and, at best, political poison...tied with Bushco and it's failed foreign policy. I doubt that she could negotiate a truce on a playground full of 3rd-graders.

Would Hil'ry help BO at this point? He'd still be at the top of the ticket and I have a problem with that...unless Hil'ry is running things from backstage. But isn't that what women end up doing many times?

I still think BO will lose and she would be better off waiting until 2012.

Diversity Inc Magazine -- We've already had five black presidents. Hmmmm....interesting. Guess who they are?

http://www.diversityinc.com/public/3085.cfm?gclid=CN_ioYqsnJUCFQSwFQodmSoAhA

China losing export business; American jobs outsourced so folks spend less on their stuff; labor costs in China too high.

http://www.livemint.com/2008/08/13225313/Chinese-textiles-lose-out-to-r.html?d=1

EdVB:
I agree that some will try to blame her in the event he loses -- which I don't expect. I didn't mean to come across as angry with your statement or with you. It's just that even the talk of blaming Her belittles Him, as if he can't take responsibility and losing like an adult.

If the unexpected happens and he does lose, there will be more than enough blame to go around (in addition to the previous points) from setting Primary rules that were so different from the electoral basis of the General Election to the silly battle over Iowa & New Hampshire being first when neither is reflective of the general population or the electorate and on and on and on . . . .

Alicia,
What if McCain chooses hillary (if Barack doesn't)?

Alicia,

Thanks for the Diversity link. I just loved this comment to their post:

"MY name is Shug, I am a 11year old girl.I am going to the 6th grade.I was really surprised to hear about our five Black Presidents. Now I look at the Black race a deffrent way.I feel my race could do better if more Black kids knew all the great things my race did in the past."

WWIII.

John Hogue -- Haha! I think I would spin myself into butter if McCain choses Hillary.

"Interesting!

But please don´t let it be true....."

Completely agree, Jason. I don't want her on the ticket....

Flatus -- Yes, the Veep segment on C-span is BS.

Obama should pick Madonna for VP

Posted by: Bowmanc | August 20, 2008 7:41 AM

We all know Madonna is in the tank for Hillary. She was an ardent Wesley Clark fan and has contributed a lot to the Clinton foundation... But she refusee to come out and support HRC wholeheartedly. She was however a month ago in Chappaqua to visit the Clintons or at least one of them

Flatus -- I also saw that comment from the little girl. That link popped up on my g-mail task frame. Black history is still not included in most school curricula. If it's covered at all, it's usually relegated to the month of February and then usually limited to Harriet Tubman and Martin Luther King. This leaves a huge hole in the telling of our American story. Most of the history of black people in America is still unexplored.

good morning gang....

Craig.... I can picture Jamie riding across this country on her broom just to give you a big wet kiss for that headline...... :0)

I don't want Hillary as VP either..... I want her back in the Senate fighting the good fight.....

John Hogue.... your 7:21 post was excellent, IMO.....

the only choice out of the ones mentioned so far that do anything for me is Biden..... he could play a pretty colorful attack dog.....

"This leaves a huge hole in the telling of our American story. Most of the history of black people in America is still unexplored."

And, Alicia, until we have people realize that this is American history rather than a hyphenated subset, we will never achieve true understanding of how magnificent this experiment truly is.

Jason
Madonna for you soon..Yes!! Thanks for the info regarding Madge and the Clinton's.I knew she was smart,but politically too.....Fay is still hangin on here in Central Florida....Rainy and windy!

RR, your 8:21, couldn't agree more!

Reading the tea leaves.
"Obama on what he wants in a running mate"
http://washingtonbureau.typepad.com/election2008/2008/08/obama-on-what-h.html

"For one, he used the word "he" to describe the person he intends to pick, not "he or she" although senior strategist Robert Gibbs later said not to read anything into the word choice."

Jack

Tony, we live in Fla........
My folks said, this morning it is still okay.....
How are U holding up?

Does anyone know how the candidates' names are listed on Presidential Ballots nationally e.g. Full Names or First & Last Names? Does anyone recall how the 2004 candidates were listed in your respective state?

Hey Jason
Good.The power has wen't out like maybe 10 times, but comes right back on.It brings back memories of the hurricanes 3 years ago,no power for weeks...Where you from in Florida?

Gordo, I love your info about citizenship but it makes my head spin. Does anyone really check to see if the candidates qualify as natural born citizens prior to the election? Someone mentioned the FEC but they seem more about regulation of election finance.

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. We are abused and 'porned.' Our gal lost, we mourned. Do we want her a VP, torned. No greater a choice is borned.

New Reuters/Zogby Poll has McCain ahead by 5 points among likely voters:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12656.html

Morning all, if you want to post your VP questions early for our 1-2 pm EST chat today, CQ Politics moderators are standing by at:

http://innovation.cq.com/liveonline/42/landing

Names on ballots:

I'm certain the voting machines in the upstate NY districts I've lived in did not spell out a candidate's middle name, and I think that's what John is asking.
Don't expect New York's voting machines to list the Democratic candidate as Barack Hussein Obama.

I can't say it with any degree of certainty, but I'd be surprised if the first President Bush had both initials listed. I wasn't reaching for that lever, but I'd bet a few dollars that he was on the ballot as George Bush, and not George H.W. Bush. I can't say I was paying a lot of attention to Bush Sr., but the first time I recall knowing anything about the Herbert Walker part of his name was when he was sworn in as president.

drudge reports zogby poll has MCcain up by 5 points in latest poll

Tony, we are in Boca Raton.....

@John H: I think it is serious for BO. Spending millions and still not being able to pull away...If the latest polls are correct he is even behind. HRC should better stay far away from this ticket.

I think this guessing game as to who BHO will pick as his VP is getting a bit long in the tooth, and it is starting to take on some silly game being played by BHO and the ever guessing drooling wide-eyed MSM groupies. So boring.....

mornin' all.

First, ET & hw, I did watch the Iowa State Fair vid last night - with LP - we howled it was so funny.

John, If The One picked Hillary as VP and lost then blamed the loss on Hillary (of course we could name a few that come here to piss all over the place who would do that) it would be the first time in US history that a VP candidate lost the Presidential race. They call it a Presidential Race for a reason. I can't recall anyone blaming Holy Joe or John the Adulterer for the '00 and '04 losses.

The best move is to pick Hillary...only way to calm a PUMA. It will be a healing move and will insure a win, not a loss.

Hey what would happen should HRC receive more votes than the enlighten one? With the Ah-Uh-Man slipping behind Johnny Mc in the polls, it is a possibility that the BHO PC crowd just might jump ship. Oh what a story that would make.

What is Obambi looking for in a VP choice? If you look to his character flaws you would think that the faculty lounge Obambi would want someone who will be the complete Uriah Heep. I would look outside the box and pick Pelosi, Brazile, Dean, McCaskill or the inestimable race baiter himself James Clyburn. Clyburn is my choice so we can finally have that long delayed discussion on race, because I'm still wondering how Obambi could sit in the honorable Rev. Wright's church for twenty years?

toast

john hogue, re name on ballot
unless it's been changed, the oath form a candidate signs in florida in order to be put on the ballot has an instruction in it "(print name as you wish it to appear on the ballot)" .... past opinions have ok'ed nicknames as well as names short of the full legal name, generally acceptable is whatever the name the person goes by business-wise.

Fry, exactamundo. We all know that Hillary has the sizzle and the balls to fight the Republican lies, Biden has the FP experience & gravitas, Kaine has the worst haircut of the year, Bayh and Sibelius have, well, names we recognize. We know that Obama needs what Biden or Hillary have, and who knows what the others could contribute? Anything beyond that is pretty much just idle speculation.

Craig

Goodluck with the Q&A
I tried to type in a question but I must be too slow a typist because twice I was half done with the question, i looked up and the site had blinked and everything I typed was gone. Don't have time to figure out if it is my side or yours. got to get some work done.

So I'll throw it out here.
John Kerry advised Obama to pick someone he trusted, how important is that in relation to other considerations, as vote delivering, ability to govern, political charisma and so on?

Jack

Jack

BW, I want to see your 9:36 in verse. ;)

Gotta give KeithO one thing - he doesn't lack in hubris.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/19/rachel-maddow-replacing-d_n_119929.html

LOL

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. We are abused and 'porned.' Our gal lost, we mourned. Do we want her a VP, torned. No greater a choice is borned.

Posted by: Blonde wino

today's gold medal for creativity goes to bw!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgZ6gnh45E0

To fight of a little anger that I feel is boiling inside....

EdVB, you know me so well so quickly. Am I so obvious? That's exactly what I'm getting to: whether Barack would be listed with his middle name. If so, he could use Hillary's name to minimize the so-called Bradley Effect. I've actually sent an inquiry to the Ohio Secretary of State's office to determine how and who determines it. Certain decisions may be made at the County level like in Florida, but I don't know to what detail they decide. In 2000, in Palm Beach County, the butterfly ballot listed "Al Gore" with Joe Lieberman on the next line. (After all, would you want "Albert" listed?) At any rate, to the extent these decisions are made at the County level, we could see Hussein where Repubicans control.

Sibelius has a basic understanding on how to appeal to old style Republicans and get their votes. That doesn't make her a good VP choice as she will have to follow the strategy of a group of advisors who don't have her skill and understanding. Kinda hard for her to do things she knows is wrong.

Jack

Jack, mebbee. I submitted a question with no problem, but I am a pretty quick keyboardist (typist is so 80s. :-)

These new polls are Barack's worst nightmare and illustrate how/why the Hillary Roll Call represents such a danger.

btw, jack, I submitted your question for you - put it under Jack from Texas - don't know where you are actually so I guessed.

Pogo, you don't use audio dictation software?

"...only way to calm a PUMA"

bw, only way i know is to throw em some red meat. scratching behind the ears and a few pats on the head doesn't bring out the purrs this time.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/08/clinton-is-the-least-boring-vp.html#comment-130111

Sorry you had trouble there, Jack. Not sure how that could happen. Perhaps best to type up question in MS Word or something, and then paste into the box at
http://innovation.cq.com/liveonline/42/landing

Pogo
thanks,

I'm in Kansas City mo but Texas is close enough.

as I said I don't know why but it did it to me twice, both time I was trying to translate out of hillbilly into English.

Jack

flatus, I don't- I've tried it a couple of times (DragonSpeak when we had WP and I forget the one I tried when I used Word) and have always gone back to the keyboard.

Jack, no need - I C&Ped it from your question above.

Jack - both are west of me. But now Iknow.

Morning everybody,

I agree with Craig that whether you like it or not any VP choice but Hillary is a snore and a bore.

Biden is old Washington and seems to represent everything that Obama
claims to be against so how is he better than Hillary?

And the others, as Craig says, they've accomplished nothing noteworthy.

I heard that new polls show Obama behind. He probably should
start tweaking his game plan.

"Jack - both are west of me."

HA, typical east coast librul.
;-)

Jack

PM

Look for a big change coming out of the convention. I think right now he is just trying to get through the next week with as little damage as possible. It has not been a good month for him so far.

Jack

Can't say there's a cause effect relationship between Corsi's book being No.1 on NYT list and No. 3 at Amazon and Obama's falling poll numbers, but there is certainly a correlation. Of course there is also a correlation between TS Fay hitting FL and Obama's falling poll numbers.

http://gothamacme.com/2008/08/19/swiftboats-sunk/

Julie Young:
Don't forget that BHO's big Party Liberal Lion, Ted Kennedy, won't be there either.

Yeah, Jack, lot of us East Coast Libruls here in WV. Lessee, hillbillies, rednecks, 3 tooth limit, coal fields, no Ivy League colleges ... yep typical breeding ground for East Coast libruls.

Oh, and I almost forgot - not on the east coast.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/22249602/how_the_%20democrats_can_blow_it_in_six_easy_steps/3
Tony, I liked that Rolling Stone article (Michael Moore) you posted yesterday. I found this particular paragraph to be clever and interesting:

"Obama, at some point, might be asked this question: "Michael Moore has endorsed you.....
So Barack, by denouncing me, you can help McCain get elected. Because when you denounce me, it's not really me you're distancing yourself from — it's the millions upon millions of people who feel the same way about things as I do. And many of them are the kind of crazy voters who have no problem voting for a Nader just to prove a point."

I don't know if everyone saw Spikes Intrade VP futures Market odds post last night, but it's also interesting - Hillary is not that far down the list. You know, I read somewhere on Monday, that they would announce on Thursday. We'll see.

Jason, this one you posted last night is weird:
BIDEN: 'I'M NOT THE GUY'
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/08/19/1276323.aspx

I'll post your Q, Jack if I'm lurking at that time.

Nader thinks Obama will pick Hillary, but the only reasonable choice is:

Ron Paul-

because if he doesn't he will lose in the general to Ron Paul's 3rd party bid.

It's about time.

"Senator Barack Obama has started a sustained and hard-hitting advertising campaign against Senator John McCain in states that will be vital this fall, painting Mr. McCain in a series of commercials as disconnected from the economic struggles of the middle class."

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/20/us/politics/20ads.html?hp

What is this about??

Poll shows McCain in 5-point lead over Obama
http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUKN1948672420080820?sp=true

Pogo
What?
WV isn't a suburb of Washington DC?

Jack

champ - Jack's question has already been posted - by moi.

It's about making McCain seem like a viable candidate, Chloe. You know it as much as I do.

Hope you're doing well by the way.

These new polls are Barack's worst nightmare and illustrate how/why the Hillary Roll Call represents such a danger.

Posted by: John Hogue | August 20, 2008 9:50 AM

BINGO!

....and exactly why I didn´t want her anywhere near the convention, let alone a roll call vote. If he loses the GE which is more than probable, they have more amunition against her....

Pogo, so glad you got to see the Iowa State Fair video. The second time I watched it I spit out coca lime. The poor television co-hosts couldn't do anything but laugh.

Did anyone else watch the vid?

Craig, interesting lead in for today's discussion. A few months ago you referred to a possible "shotgun marriage" between the two surviving Dem candidates and I pretty much agreed. I don't know if Obama can win without Hillary and I don't know if he can win WITH Hillary. if I were to bet, I would go with Hillary and really make this a unique ticket. I am surprised at my fellow Hillary supporters feeling so negative about her as VP candidate. I know she can do wonders in the Senate, but maybe she can also do wonders at the VP Mansion and White House....

At some point we are all going to have to get over bruised feelings and support the candidate that most represents our values and what we want to see for the future direction of our country. Personally I can't imagine McCain representing that for many in here (my excuses to the Republicans who participate in this blog). Thus, I believe that even without Hillary, Obama is the logical choice to carry forward the issues we care about.

Hmmmm... What if everyone here writes down what their main issue(s) is/are and we compile it in a list and then try to analyze the support or opposition of the 2 or more candidates?? Just a thought.

Fine, be Jack's new BFF, pogo, I don't care. I'll just make new friends on some other blog, so mleh.

Champ, I really missed you.
I know.

What Else is Above Obama's 'Pay Grade'?
‘Pay grade’ unartful dodge
In 1948, they had Harry Truman and “The buck stops here!”

In 2008, they’ve got Barack Obama and it’s “above my pay grade.”
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/opinion/op_ed/view.bg?articleid=1113869

Haa!! That's the Eastern Panhandle - the AMTRAK commuter train route into DC ends at Martinsburg, three hours east of here if you drive like hell to get there. No one in most of WV considers the 3 eastern counties to really be WV, and they do have much more in common with VA than with WV (which is why Mrs. P & I almost moved there 12 years ago before jobs here made that move a bad economic decision).

Sorry about that last post, but I'm not happy if I'm not stirring up a little trouble.

Jack -- You'll like this....granddaughter called me this morning so I could ONCE AGAIN hear her favorite singer and song: Roger Miller, You Can't Roller
Skate in a Buffalo Herd. (Her favorite line, "You can't take a shower in a parakeet cage"

In some bizarre way the song reminds me of the Veepstakes....

champ, what's the old saying? A day late, a dollar short? nanny nanny poo poo.

Pogo

I saw that add this morning. Basic non creative attack add. Saw 4 attack ads this morning all the same. A set from the president race and a set from the MO governor race. They all blurr together. One thing I noticed about the Obama ad is he didn't swithch announcers as he went from describing the bad McCain to describing the good Obama. And the announcer seemed to me to be carrying the negative voice on over to Obama. This was all on my first cup of coffee.
Looked at my wife after all 4 of them aired and said"It's gonna be a long election"

Jack

It's about time.

chloe, I think it;s safe to say that he didn't win over any evangelical votes with that answer. A few liberal lawyers maybe, but they weren't going to vote for McCain on a bet.

OJ, Tom, I hope I may transcend non-entity status in order to participate in your list.

2 main issues:

Corrupt, ill-advised, self-detrimental foreign policy. Ron Paul advocates a less imperialist foreign policy less beholden to foreign interests that may or may not be beneficial U.S. positions.

The establishment of a police state and erosion of civil liberties, which only Ron Paul addresses with integrity and advocates restoration of constitutionally protected freedoms.

Vote Ron Paul. You know you wanna.

pogo, It's just like all the times he voted 'Present'.
Just wants to have it both ways.
But, that's politics folks.
Way too many people to try to make happy.

That should be my epitaph, pogo. At least the chicks are diggin' me.

:Pwned.

Hi EuroTom,

I'm a fellow Hillary enthusiast and I'm definitely with you on supporting Hillary for VP. I want a reason to be excited again about this election.

Hillary is tough and a fighter, so I don't imagine she'd be daunted by the media blaming her for Obama's mistakes or defeats.

I haven't seen the ads, Jack, but it sounds like they aren't well produced from what you say.

btw, e-mail me at larry dot chafin at steptoe hyphen johnson dot com if you don't mind.

The only thing I like about Ron Paul is that he pays attention, and that he has great respect for the Constitution.

Champ, then life is good. I had a friend in college who said that everything a guy does is done to get chicks. I couldn't argue with him.

Ed

""What does Obama do about Bill?""

Everytime I hear one of the paid public yammerers say something along this line, I can't help but wonder, "Who is going to be President?" If Sen. Obama can't handle the job well enough to keep the former Prez in his place while using his expertise, then he has no business being President at all.

Big Dawg is a world of talent to have at anyone's finger tips. Since I'm planning on voting for him, I would like to think that Sen. Obama has the confidence to make him heel.

OK, champ, call me dense if you must, but whatthe?

:Pwned

A couple of nights ago, Spike wrote this:
"My political instincts tell me Wes Clark's still got a chance...Good soldier who knows who's the Commander-in-Chief and won't rock the internal boat. He's obviously got all the foreign policy/national security credentials, and has already tried out as the head attack dog, He's a long-time Hillary supporter (see above), AND he's not on the schedule for the DNC, even during the National Securty night where the theme is the same exact tagline as Clark's PAC (Securing America's Future). Either they've completely run over him with the bus because of his comments about McCain, or they're something afoot:....hmmmm.http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/08/thats-enough-church-talk.html#comment-129692

I was left thinking, (wishing, whatever):
Or they're going to switch him into Hillary's spot on the schedule if they pick her as vp.

Hi Champ.... good to see you again!

ETom..... I don't want Hillary as VP because I don't want her talents to be wasted..... I don't think a VP should be as powerful as Cheney has obviously been.... I don't want to see another "co-presidency"..... I think there should only be one person at the top..... and that person for the Democratic party is going to be Obama....

I honestly want to see Hillary back in the Senate fighting for issues she ( and I ) care about..... I don't want to see her flying around to state funerals and other stuff that's a waste of her fighting spirit.....
this of course is just my opinion......

oh yeah.... the video with the snake had me pissing my pants!

I don't want to see her flying around to state funerals and other stuff that's a waste of her fighting spirit.....
this of course is just my opinion......"

Renee, Don't you think she could redefine the vp job, without being as powerful as Cheney. More of a liaison to the Senate, etc. for a President Obama?

Bobby Jindal, Angry white man.

Jack

'"what does Obama do about Bill?"

I'm so tired of this line of media crapolla--the talking heads and cable channels created a caracature of Bill Clinton during the pirmaries because it sold copy and boosted ratings. Camp Obama fed the smears in trying to diminish Pres.Clinton's legacy, because it hurt Hillary's campaign. It was all exaggerated and misleading garbage.

What to do about Bill? Use his great talents and hope he decides to work
his electric charisma-magic for the benefit of all us voters.

Obama would be lucky to have Bill Clinton as a close confidant and supporter, don't kid yourselves.

"What to do about Bill? Use his great talents and hope he decides to work his electric charisma-magic for the benefit of all us voters." prof marcia

Marcia,

I agree. "'"what does Obama do about Bill?" is a ridiculous statement. One of the nations most charismatic, successful leaders of our time, he could be a great help to Obama.

Jamie

All it would take to put this Clinton issue behind him is to invite the Clintons over for dinner. Get some good pictures of the happy couples gabbing with each other and enjoying each others company. Problem over IMO.
The Obama people have been the ones draging this out. As you said if he can't handle the big dawg how is he going to govern in DC with all the high powered ego's everywhere.

Jack

John

Regulations on ballot names can vary by state and acceptance is usually controlled by the Secretary of State who is in charge of election procedures.

Again we come down to the intent to defraud legality and most politicians like to be listed by the name most familiar to voters while others will use the name as it appears on birth certificate (George W. Bush) or adoption papers (Jerry Ford).

For instance: Bill Clinton was born William Jefferson Blythe III . When his mother remarried he assumed the surname Clinton. As close as I can find there was never a formal adoption but he was known as "Bill" Clinton. At some later date once an adult it would have been possible for him to revert to his birth name. He chose not to.

On a ballot, he usually chose:

William (Bill) Jefferson Clinton

For Barrack Hussain Obama, Jr. who no longer uses the nickname "Barry" nor the surname of his stepfather, the listing could be:

Barrack Hussain Obama, Jr.
Barrack Hussain Obama
Barrack Obama

All would probably be acceptable to the Secretaries of State.

"What to do about Bill?" As if he can do anything other than beg Bill to help him get elected after letting his campaign and syncophants impugn him and Hillary for the past 6 months, oh, and hope for anything other than a hale and hearty FU and the horse you rode in on as a response. Not that Bill would do that, but it wouldn't be an unearned response.

Holy Joe's continuing conversion to Republican.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/washington/AP-Lieberman-GOP-Convention.html

" He should blog here, he'd fit right in. "

Moanin' Joe would fit in better with you than anyone else here. He was just as sanctimonious about Bill Clinton as you...your personalities are so alike.

jack,

That's a brilliant suggestion--Obama should invite Hillary and Bill over
for a friendly dinner, a few cocktails, home videos of the kids at camp.

But, hell will probably freeze over first.

(or maybe Obama might start reconsidering his distaste for the Clintons now that he's sinking in the polls).

btw, Craig,

"May you live in interesting times" is reputed to be the English translation of an ancient Chinese proverb and curse. It is reported that it was the first of three curses of increasing severity, the other two being:

"- May you come to the attention of those in authority
- May you find what you are looking for "

From Wiki - the font of all knowledge (plus, I saw Donald Sutherland use the phrase in "Disclosure")

"with all those hrc noshow delegates cropping up or being replaced by o's, me suspects foul play afoot. or at least ennui."

Posted by: patd | August 20, 2008 6:13 AM
==============================
Is Gwatney Murder Part Of Obama Body Count?

"Gwatney was a major ally of Hillary and Bill Clinton, and was a leader of the strongly pro-Clinton Arkansas delegation to the upcoming Denver Democratic National Convention.

Gwatney's Arkansas delegation was known to be a hotbed of anti-Obama sentiment, and was reportedly ready to walk out of the Denver convention if Senator Clinton were not to be treated fairly by the Howard Dean-Donna Brazile DNC leadership.

Observers in Washington are now asking whether the assassination of Gwatney can be read as attempted intimidation of the anti-Obama forces now gaining strength before the Denver convention."

http://www.rense.com/general83/gwat.htm

Is AttaWitch anything like AttaTurk?

Hilarious that you take offense when someone calls you on your snark. That's an old and tired maneuver.

PS -- I'm wearing my Bill Clinton "Viva La Bubba" t-shirt to lunch today.....it's very popular at El Mariachi.

"I'm so tired of this line of media crapolla..." PM@10:49

You sure aren't the only one.

Our host's book 'Attack the Messenger' is premised on there being an unfettered, independent media able to spread truth over multiple outlets.

I submit those days are gone.

Just yesterday, I terminated my subscription to my local paper. It was worth little more than wrapping moist garbage, something I can recycle grocery bags to handle. The paper had recently been purchased by McClatchy in their buyout of Knight Ridder.

I've touted the Journal as being an excellent source for general news. How long that lasts under Murdoch is certainly open to question.

And the Times is rapidly becoming a shadow of its former self.

You want unfettered hard hitting reporting? Go to something like the Gulfport Gabber:
http://www.thegabber.com/

MSM has let us down. Government has let us down.

Pogo

That third curse is a killer and a great variation on

Be careful what you wish for

LOL
I am reading that the zogby poll releases are a smoke curtain. After the veep is known and the dem convention is over, they will sky rocket his poll numbers again.
Uh Huh.....

I know no one is going to like this, but there it is, in todays Wall Street Journal. Why stick our heads in the sand.

Obama Played by Chicago Rules

"Mr. Obama writes that even if the voters were not impressed by this speech, "enough of them appreciated my earnestness and youthful swagger that I made it to the Illinois legislature."
Mr. Obama has never stood up against Chicago's corruption problem because his donors and allies are Chicago's corruption problem.

Mr. Obama is not the reformer he now claims to be. The real man is the one they know in Chicago -- the one who won his first election by depriving voters of a choice.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121918996082755013.html?mod=opinion_main_commentaries

Speaking of Chinese curses, I sent a test to several of you. Let me know how old your are. :-)

HRC is not, will never take second position to a person she fully knows isn't as qualified as she is. Also if she did accept the VP slot, his would only delay her changes of becoming POTUS. If BHO's only real chances of becoming POTUS is by selecting HRC as his VP, this damn near kills any chances of HRC of becoming POTUS. HRC will be 61 this October, add 8 more years she'll be 69, when taking office. If she ran then she be a 1 term president. She be in a much better potion to run again in 2012 at the age of 65 than at 69, OR if the delegates ever grow some balls, and vote her in from the floor. But then again, I always been a HRC fan.

Gordo

Good Lord!!!!! We lived with the mounting dead carcasses in the Clinton Chronicles now you are starting off with the first of the Obama bodies. When are you updating your membership in Delusional anonymous?

Peepz,

I just ordered the MEH! t shirt from the geek website.
I am going ot south america for holidays in December. Funny, but I think it will be funny to wear it over there.

Dad send blackberrymail electricity is out now for more than an hour....I am getting worried.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/21/world/africa/21algeria.html?hp

Memo

From: the desk of the President, Commander in Chief and Protector of all that is Right and Good in the World

To: Dave

Dave, you may have heard on the televison or read on the internets that AlQaeda is making trouble in Algreia or Algiers - I confuse those two places. Anyway, now that things are going so well in Iraq, while you're making plans to go and fight Medvedev's guys in Georgia if they don't leave soon (make sure that you don't let them take over Atlanta or Savannah) and Poland if they do what they say they will now that Condi's (I really like her) got them all riled up over our missiles that are going there, you better find out which of those places all these car bombs are going off in and make plans to get some of our boys there, too. If you can't figure it out either, just pick one and we'll go with that. By the way (or btw, as they say on the internets) you're doing a hell of a job.

George

Jamie --------------------------------

Add Donald Young (the murdered gay choirmaster of Rev. Wright's church) and possibly others.

"I am going ot south america for holidays in December." Jason@11:27

Not until you get chapter 5 written and revised, you aren't.

PM, do you want to weigh in on this?

chloe,

Wow. That's an interesting post you put up "Obama Played by Chicago
Rules." Thanks for your often polemic choices.

I do wonder about Obama's Chicago connections. Since we've all heard
that city is quite corrupt, going back to Mayor Daly and the Irish mafia.

Mccain should pick Sen Clinton as his vp cross party lines

jason, don't be so sure about the Zogby stuff you're reading - it may be the most extreme, but the trend across most of the polls is downward for Obama.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html#polls

Jason,

Flatus has reminded me that I need to keep you focussed on that
dissertation. But, I'm confident you'll be finished with the final draft
of a completed manuscript by then.

Where in South America? Chile? Argentina?

"polemic "

LOL Marcia. That's my middle name.

"I am going ot south america for holidays in December." Jason@11:27

Not until you get chapter 5 written and revised, you aren't.

PM, do you want to weigh in on this?

Posted by: Flatus | August 20, 2008 11:33 AM

No worries Sir. The final chapter will be done in about two months....

Okiedokie gang. It has been a long day. Almost a quarter to six here... Gonna leave ya

Stay cool

hasta manana

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/08/clinton-is-the-least-boring-vp.html#comment-130190

Fry, You may be right.

@Pogo: You may be right. But a certain new smedia is sayng that it may be smoke screen. we´ll just have to wait and see.

@prof: Starting in Brazil, then to Chile ( to visit the machu picchu of course) and finally ending in Suriname...can´t wait.....

Jason,

Bon Voyage!

Depending on the VP decision, I don't see how a fractured base will get the dems any further in their platform to change much of the executive branch. I had posted an article in Newsweek yesterday which basically stated we are fighting the George Bush presidency of 2000 rather than the presidency of 2004.

And Obama has adopted many of the Bush 2004 presidency policies.

Er, Jason, it's in Peru. The two have more than a casual rivalry.

lunch

Jason...enjoy Brazil...it has always amazed me how the current administration and the current campaigns ignore Central and South America....focusing more on Europe and Asia. Brazil is one dynamic country!

nap

LOL....Only in December evryone....So, 3 more months...LOL

BW, it amazes how much they indeed focus on Europe and Asia. But watch out...Within the next 3 years you will see a sudden shift to Latin America. The Asian bubble will burst and the inflation in Europe will make it a very dificult trading partner.
Oil is to be found in Latin America (Venezuela, even Suriname is building it´s own refinery in the coming two years) and land is also availbale.
Mark my words......

I really need to go now

Bye all......

For Barrack Hussain Obama, Jr. who no longer uses the nickname "Barry" nor the surname of his stepfather, the listing could be:

Barrack Hussain Obama, Jr.
Barrack Hussain Obama
Barrack Obama

All would probably be acceptable to the Secretaries of State.

Posted by: Jamie | August 20, 2008 10:58 AM

Actually Jamie, it's my understanding that when the Sr. dies, the Jr. is no longer "Jr." Perhaps I am wrong about this... wouldn't be the first time. :-)

Veep Sheet: Kaine and Obama meet tonight. After a day of campaigning in Virginia, Barack Obama is overnighting in Richmond tonight as the guest of Gov. Tim Kaine, Politico has learned from Old Dominion sources.

So, is it a consolation prize for the young veep hopeful, or a warmup act for one of the biggest buddy acts in presidential history?"
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12659.html

damn acronyms. What does MEH! mean?

ET....MEH is sort of like "oy." It is not an acronym, but more of a breathing expression of boredom...popularized by the Simpsons!

ET

You are correct, but many continue to use it for purposes of sentiment or genealogy particularly in families where there is a III, IV, or V

lol

ET...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culturally_significant_phrases_from_The_Simpsons#Influences_on_language

"Barack Obama is overnighting in Richmond tonight as the guest of Gov. Tim Kaine,"

I wouldn't read too much into that...Given the number of times Presidential nominees end up in the Governor's mansion here (Iowa) for overnight stays, the state should have produced at least one other VP other than Henry Wallace (and he wasn't a Governor)...

For Barrack Hussain Obama, Jr. who no longer uses the nickname "Barry" nor the surname of his stepfather, the listing could be:

Barrack Hussain Obama, Jr.
Barrack Hussain ObamaBarrack Obama

All would probably be acceptable to the Secretaries of State.
Posted by: Jamie Author Profile Page | August 20, 2008 10:58 AM
===============================
Is His Legal Name Obama or Soetoro?

"There is now evidence indicating that his actual valid Birth Certificate on file in Hawaii says Barry Soetoro.

And we believe that Barry Soetoro started using the name “Obama” sometime in the 70’s, it would seem.

... our researchers have been unable to locate the public record showing that Barry Soetoro legally changed his name back to Barack Obama."

http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/08/12/is-his-legal-name-obama-or-soetoro-act-now/

"Renee, Don't you think she could redefine the vp job, without being as powerful as Cheney. More of a liaison to the Senate, etc. for a President Obama?"

Chloe..... I don't want to ever see another vp be as powerful as Cheney.... but you seem to be suggesting that Hillary be a co-Senate Majority Leader (or Minority Whip) instead..
I don't think that's the proper place for a vp either.....

I'm not looking in the short term..... as how to get Obama elected..... that's Obama's job to figure out.....

I'm looking more long term in how I want my government to go back to being what government was before the Bush/Cheney junta took over.....

I liked the relationship between Clinton and Gore..... Gore was more of a visible vp..... but no one forgot who #1 was..... or who was running the Senate....

gotta go if I want to get back for the live online discussion....

I would like to see an Obama Bayh ticket as in Obama Buh-Bye

Gordo

Try to get it through your skull that it doesn't matter. There is nothing illegal going on. That's why I used the examples of Jerry Ford and Bill Clinton.

In both cases their birth names, names used in infancy or childhood, and their adult names were different. It isn't a problem any more than my using a birth name, stepfathers name, married name and finally reverting to birth name is a problem. People do it all the time.

I can even go farther and state that if I wanted I could claim full British citizenship since my father was born in Scotland. Does that make me less of an American? NO it doesn't and the US was kind enough to issue me a passport as such.

So I have a great deal in common with the probable next President of the United States and since neither one of us has ever made a secret of the relationships involved, no crime has been committed.

Do we click on the link above where we submitted comments to go to the on line discussion?

pogo - You should forward that KO/Maddow link to T. Boone Pickens. Why put up windmills in the TX panhandle when KO has all of the wind energy our country will ever need? (Don't cha kinda wanna vote for McCain just to watch his big, giant head explode when the final returns come in on election night?)

Ah, somebody brought up Ron Paul. I asked about him yesterday & only learned that his wife was in poor health. I don't agree with him on some issues, but in comparison with other Republicans, he sounds completely sane. I'd actually feel better about voting for him than McCain.

I don't think Biden is the guy. If you listen to the tape, he doesn't sound like he's deflecting, he sounds dejected.

If Hil'ry did get veep, BO wouldn't announce prior to convention, right? Wouldn't it be better to wait & eat up all of the press coverage that McCain will try to get with his announcement as the Dems leave Denver?

blueINdallas:
What a diabolical scheme! Too Bold for 'Bama, though.

Jamie

Try to get it through your skull that it does matter. There is something illegal going on.
============================
If Obama’s name is really Barry Soetoro, his primary results are all disqualified and he is not the nominee

"... if it’s true that Obama’s name is actually “Barry Soetoro”, as it increasingly seems (and as it’s recorded on his birth certificate), then any time he’s been listed on a ballot as “Barack Obama” has been a fraud, and those results should be disqualified.

We know someone here whose last name was spelled wrong on a ballot once: let’s say his name was Shannon, when it was printed on the ballot as Shanon, in a clerical mistake this person’s campaign did not catch in time. All votes for “Shannon” were null and void because the public voted for “Shanon”, when that was not the name on this person’s birth certificate. He did not win the election, but was not allowed to even have his votes counted and certified because the board of elections said “Shanon” and “Shannon” were not the same person in the eyes of election law. And we are talking about one “n” in those two names making all the difference: just one letter.

Former President Gerald Ford was born “Leslie Lynch King Jr.”, but his parents changed his name when he was adopted by his stepfather. Ford went by “Gerald Ford” for the rest of his life, but never failed to be upfront about being born “Leslie Lynch King Jr.”."

http://hillbuzz.wordpress.com/2008/08/11/breaking-if-obamas-name-is-really-barry-soetoro-his-primary-results-are-all-disqualified-and-he-is-not-the-nominee/

Jamie, yes. I think he's already there.

http://innovation.cq.com/liveonline/42/landing

Blonde, I think he is the ground hog.

5 to 1 Craig is deeply pondering an appropriate response to my very relevant and pointed question at this very moment. Ain't the internet grand?

Sorry Blonde. I wasn't thinking.
Of course, you're right.

Not to worry Champ. I'm sure he is.

LOL.
Craig just answered my question.
I think he was saying that Hillary has better hair than Obama.:)

Chloe,

You can tell by his recent TV appearances that Craig is allowing his hair to grow long and he seems to be trending towards the HRC Femullet again...

I guess it really is a 'hair thing' Bear.:)

Hair today.......gone tomorrow.

sturg - hair yesterday, gone today.

HRC Femullet. LOL!

well, yeah, but.........

Bear, I'm not all that up on mullets - having nothing on top to add to what's behind, but I believe that it would just be a Mullet on Craig.

Sturgeone, we've missed you!

Congresswoman Stephanie Tubbs Jones had an aneuryism while driving.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5g5atlJ9I4IGbTPQB-hNQA0uwlyPQD92M4OU00

well, thankee kindly, Miss Clo........

heheh

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/washington/AP-Stevens.html

Ted "Tubes" Stevens can't move his trial to Alaska. TS

From the live blog:

Chloe from Houston: If Hillary were the nominee, would that quiet down the PUMA ("Party Unity My Ass") noise at the convention?
Craig Crawford: Well, there are some diehards who will be satisfied with nothing less than a Clinton takeover of the presidential nomination at the convention. But yes, choosing her as VP ought to calm most. Then Obama would have to worry about the Clinton haters in his fold going ballistic.

There are Clinton haters in the Obama fold? Who knew? RFLMFAO

That's too bad about Tubbs-Jones, and I hope she gets well. I was just talking to her a couple of weeks ago and she was saying that she understood the flack she received for supporting HRC, but couldn't turn her back on a friend. She knows that she might pay that price later on.

The news just confirmed that Tubbs-Jones suffered an Aneurism. She is currently stable but it would be unlikely that she will be able to attend convention.

Chloe...from yesterday

You might be right about Byah, Jack. Obama may be like David Lee Roth...according to urban legend, DLR wouldn't have any groupies that had better hair than he had. He didn't want to be upstaged. Political theater may or may not be different from rock theater.

Posted by: Blonde wino | August 19, 2008 9:43 AM

Blonde, You said it first!

Despite the fact that I recently told Jamie I don't like the anonymous commenting here on Trail Mix, I broke that rule in posing questions during Craig's "live chat." I wanted to make sure Craig would fill the hour, so I assumed my kids' names for a few different questions. Craig has responded to three of them, so I'm glad I used that approach instead of repeatedly showing up as myself.

I am sorry about Ms. Jones, but it is a timely reminder of mortality and why VP picks are important. With the age of McCain and the analogy to Kennedy and assasination threats, neither presumed candidate should be feeling particularly invulnerable.

Sturgeone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a84IowoW00w

"There are Clinton haters in the Obama fold? Who knew? RFLMFAO"

pogo,
All kidding aside, of course I know that.

But I still can't imagine his most loyal supporters not voting for him. I think things would all balance out. I hereby promise, that if Obama were to choose Hillary for vp I will no longer link negative Obama blogs. (and that won't be easy!)

DLR ego = BHO ego

EdV...I like your style. If only you could vote 3 times.

"I assumed my kids' names for a few different questions".

Wish I'd thought of that.

jamie.......arrrrrgh......I had to watch that whole thing to get to the "moral"........lol

Craig....
thanks for the live discussion.... I very much enjoyed it and hope you do it again......

gee EdV..... wish I had thought of that...... but seeing as how I don't have any children, I'd have used Red Sox names...... like Big Papi from Boston.... :0)

chloe, that would make for a certain poetic justice wouldn't it? Clinton's supporters could angrily vote for lhim, knowing that Obama's aupporters were angrily doing the same. A party of voters unified only by their anger toward the other half of the ticket. What a concept. (I think it's pretty safe to say that ain't gonna happen).

Obama picking Hillary would make me a lot happier about the DEM Ticket -- and it would still resonate a change message --because there has never been a woman VP.

The kidlets are getting restless -- time to go to the park to feed the ducks and geese.

Jamie

I wish there was an appropriate way to repay you for that video.

this might start

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97RjuC9YeXg

Congress-woman Jones has dies.

Free Falling

"Just as it was clearly explained on this site months ago, John McCain was expected to eventually overcome Obama in the polls and then win with a comfortable lead in November. The signs of this change have already been quite apparent ...

The numbers also demonstrate that John McCain’s mocking ads have worked their magic ... The best method of toppling the foolish sycophancy of those who are ignorant enough to fall for Obama’s (read David Axelrod’s) rhetoric, is to point out the ridiculousness of its pretensions.

At this point, all of our political predictions have come to pass, all to the peril of Democratic Party structure, who must now finally admit that they nominated their weakest and most inexperienced candidate."

http://savagepolitics.com/?p=1514

John, where'd you see that? WaPo and AP don't have it up.

CRAP!

very sad news about Tubbs Jones.....

sending good thoughts out to her family and colleagues in the House and in Ohio....

Craig
I was taken during your live discussion today, when you said "he now needs to broaden his base to voters who are afraid of change.": You don't need to be afraid of change in order to consider that platform to be somewhat meaningless. I've heard others say that before and I think it's just not true. Fear of change is one thing. Being unimpressed with empty words is another.

Oh, on cable - not on print sites yet. Sad news.

"Clinton's supporters could angrily vote for lhim, knowing that Obama's aupporters were angrily doing the same."

Actually, pogo, I think you have something there.
I love that idea.

Sorry to hear that, about Tubbs Jones.

Thank God McCain showed "great judgment responding to the Georgia crisis"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26306440/

I can't help but think that McCain is Flounder, sitting at the table with his "girl", when the brothers come over and ask "Mind if we dance with your dates?"

If McCain is president, he' would make the US the puny guy getting sand kicked in his face while pretending he was Charles Atlas after they turned to something else.

Craig....
I too was taken aback by that "afraid of change" phrase.....

I don't think the average American is afraid of change..... I do, however, think the big powers in DC are......

they think they can manipulate Obama..... if he gets elected, I hope he proves them all wrong.....

It's on FoxNews.com too about Tubbs Jones -- I am so sorry to hear this -- she was such a brave, eloquent woman -- what a loss.

if you looked up loyalty in the dictionary it would read

STEFFANE TUBBS JOBES

JONES sorry

What's so surprising, is that she's been look so well.

Hold your nose, hold your breath, read this.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Bush.html

Frickin' idiot.

Horrible about Stephanie Tubbs-Jones. She was a beautiful woman with a strong sense of ethics and loyalty.

He sounds like the same frickin' idiot he always sounds like pogo.

RCP reports Battleground Poll showing McCain leading Obama by 1.

The RCP Obama lead average dips to 1.2%.

Wake up Democrats!

Nominate Senator Hillary Clinton for President

chloe - I had a girlfriend once upon a time in a past life whose mom suffered a cerebral aneurism and died within hours. She had been the picture of health right up until she collapsed. Apparently they are completely benign until they burst.

I was hoping to find the picture of the Ohio primary Hillary win celebrating with Stephanie tubbs-Jones.
Could not find it, so will have to just remember ..........It was a beautiful moment..

julie

I've seen the same thing happen too pogo. There's often no warning.

Yep....Obama should have been light years ahead of McCain in the polling. And if we have to wait for the VP selection to give him a bump in the polls (and I hope for more than a pimple)...it might as well be HRC. She is the most exciting and I think Obama will need that as he appears to be stalled. With the repug convention on the heels of the dems....McCain's pimple rise in the polls may match Obama's!

julie, here's one.

http://blog.cleveland.com/openers/2008/06/tubbs_jones_interview_clinton.html

I feel badly about Stephanie Tubbs-Jones. She was always so dignified. I know she took a lot of flack from some in the African American community for her standing by Senator Clinton.

She even handled the unjustified criticism with grace.

Now CNN and Fox are saying she is clinging to life despite earlier reports that she had died.

Julie

http://www.theroot.com/media/2/Tubbs%20Jones%20and%20Hillary%20clasping%20hands-HomepageImageComponent.JPG

Julie Young....I have that "photo of that night" in my mind's eye...it was a glorious night for both women.

Julie

http://www.theroot.com/media/2/Tubbs%20Jones%20and%20Hillary%20clasping%20hands-HomepageImageComponent.JPG

Rep. Stephanie Tubbs Jones is one of our favorite people in the world
HillBuzz can't say enough about Rep. Stephanie Tubbs Jones of Ohio. The woman is amazing. AMAZING. Her courage, her convictions, her brilliance. She dazzles us. The gratitude we have for everything she has done, and continues to do, for Hillary Clinton is so strong and so deep that we at HillBuzz promise to help Rep. Tubbs Jones in anything she'd need in the future. There aren't many people we'd go to the mat for, but Rep. Tubbs Jones, Mayor Michael Nutter, Governor Ed Rendell, Rev. Marcia Dyson, Governor Ted Strickland, Rep. Tammy Baldwin, and Hillary Clinton's other strong supporters in elected office are people we'd fight for any day. This campaign has really shown us how lucky we are to have people like this representing us in government. They may not be on trading cards like baseball stars or be household names across the country, but they should be. And we wouldn't trade our Stephanie Tubbs Jones rookie card for anything (short of a ticket to Hillary Clinton's Inauguration).
http://hillbuzz.blogspot.com/2008/04/rep-stephanie-tubbs-jones-is-one-of-our.html

This is another beautiful one

http://blog.cleveland.com/pdworld/2007/08/tubbsjones.jpg

MSNBC also says death report was a mistake. Doctors say she is in critical condition.

Everyone so inclined, please pray.

It's sad news about the Congresswoman...I feel badly that Fox and CNN are turning the news into a scene from Monty Python's Holy Grail...

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/08/clinton-is-the-least-boring-vp.html#comment-130290

Blonde, I've thought for a while, like Craig, that McCain should pick Romney. That will push him up in the polls some more, if he does.

By the way, Craig...you do have great hair. Must be that Cherokee blood. Lovely, thick dark hair.

Thank you chloe, nice pics. and this suffices very well. The one I was remembering was the confetti celebration... TubbsJones is a true loss, to people of Ohio, democrats, as well as her family.

If anyone has time and feels like playing a game, all four of the questions I submitted under my kids' names were answered by Craig.

I think it will be relatively easy for some of you to come up with their names. So have at it if you'd like. If you're trying and you feel you need a clue, please let me know.

Chloe..you are very correct. There are many principled, dedicated people in public life.

Two examples in my state are retiring Governor Ted Kulongski and retiring Congresswoman Darleen Hooley.

Those who blanket all politicians negatively just don't get it..

I believe that "grave" is a condition more serious than critical. I hope there is a chance for survival and quality of life.

RR,

We would have caught on when the question came in from Manny in LA.

If it's not too late to draft him, I'm okay with Big Papi for President. Anything to get him out of the lineup before you guys play the Yanks again.

For those who believe that it really is the economy, stupid, here's a LONG but interesting read about Obama's views onthe economy that will be in the Sunday Times magazine this weekend.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/24/magazine/24Obamanomics-t.html?pagewanted=1&hp

Bear - accuracy becomes the victim of teh 24 hr. news cycle.

EdVB

Is there an Ed, Jr. in your family?

That should be Gov. Ted KulongOski

Thanks Jack and Jamie for the pics. Wish I was as good as you guys at retrieving things on internet. Jamie that picture of the two of them together is priceless, and beautiful..

Here's CNN's article on Jones.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/20/congresswoman.aneurysm/index.html

I note that CNN failed to say that it was their reports that earlier said she had died.

Ahh...the grim reaper has had a day

149 dead in Madrid plane crash...

Julie

Go to google click on the images link, then type in the 2 names and you will find many pictures

Jack

Christ all mighty -- this is hilarious....a debate that gets out of control:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXwy2VuA2V4

ET

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groundhog_Day_%281993_movie%29

I haven't been watching TV for a while, but haven't heard anything about this.

Poland and US sign shield deal, anger Moscow
" The United States and Poland signed a deal on Wednesday to station parts of a US missile defence shield on Polish soil, a move certain to aggravate Russia-Western tensions over Moscow's intervention in Georgia."
http://www.mg.co.za/article/2008-08-20-poland-and-us-sign-shield-deal-anger-moscow

ET, if you've never seen Groundhog Day, you have missed one of Bill Murry's best. Imagine waking up on the same day, every day, but you are the only one for whom the day is the same as yesterday, The only one who has any conception that today is the same as yesterday, and the only differences between today and yesterday are the differences you create.

I wonder how long it will be until Russia signs some sort of treaty with Cuba for missile offense shields...I'm glad that we get to see how Bush would have fucked up the Cuban Missile Crisis...

On that note, how long until GORDO posts stories about the cockroach who survived armegeddon who was born as a centipede and thus ineligible to be king roach?

Pogo,

Did I read your 2:28 post correctly? Bush went to Orlando for a pre-emptive strike against Tropical Storm Fay? What a guy!

Patsi...that argument should be subjected to the Groundhog Day treatment. Imagine fighting that one over and over. Groundhog Day on a full moon, I say!

Bear, LOL.

I'm a little surprised that we haven't seen anything of that sort yet. (The Cuba/missile part, not the cockroach/centipede part)

Thank you Jamie..great pics..

Ed, he heard that if you confuse anyone enough, he or she will turn away wondering what the hell you just said - I guess he thought it would work on tropical storms with peoples' names as well as old soldiers.

BlondeW

Yes, Ed Jr. doesn't live in Troy, but he was born there.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/08/clinton-is-the-least-boring-vp.html#comment-130232

Blondie, ET - I'm thinkin' Ned Ryerson.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Tobolowsky

Jack,............ thank you.
Never to old to learn something new.

julie

Julie

It really is easy. You go to google and put in search terms, in this case: Stephanie Tubb-Jones Hillary Clinton. Click on images.

A whole page of possibilities will pop up often with multiple pages. Look for the one you want and click on it.

It will come up with a divided page showing the photo above and the page on which it appears below.

Click on the photo and it will take you to a page with only the photo.

Copy the URL at the top and paste here.

Anyone clicking on the URL here will be taken directly to the picture.

I'm comfortable with Obama/Bayh if it was reversed. LOL!

I'm confortable with Clinton/Bayh or Clinton/Gore

Thank you Jamie, that's the third thing I have learned from you on how to navigate and enjoy the computer.

TPM is advertising for a political savvy person (unpaid) to help with election time. You should apply. Your ideas are often repeated. You would be good at it.

julie

BTW, good to see you, Sturge!

if reversed..i finally get it

Pogo

Ned Ryserson reminds me of another insurance reference in movies...Planes, Trains and Automobiles...Steve Martin discussing insurance seminars in the hotel room with John Candy (I sure miss John Candy). Apologies in advance to anyone who makes a living in the insurance industry!

BTW, was the movie The Jerk -- a racist movie?

FOX news just made a reference to Groundhog Day movie when discussing the mother of the missing 3 year old. Just one of those coincidences!

Patsi,
Typical Jayhawkers! lol

Leroi Moore has died. (Dave Matthews Band)

excuse me Patsi, meant Jayhawks.

More reading of the tea leaves

"Insider: Virginia Gov. held line of succession meeting"

http://www.palmettoscoop.com/2008/08/19/insider-virginia-gov-held-line-of-succession-meeting/

Somebody help me. I just got back.
What is that Craw Craigford thing all about??

LOL
Craw Craigford

Craig, you've hit the big time when people start messing with your name for anonymous posts.

Jack

Leroi Moore died of complications from a ATV accident...I remember when Ozzy Osborne crashed his ATV in England...hurt him pretty bad, too.

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/obituaries/articles/2008/08/20/leroi_moore_46_played_sax_for_the_dave_matthews_band/?p1=Well_MostPop_Emailed7

He was one hell of a sax player....one of the best for those who love the sax like I do.

"On that note, how long until GORDO posts stories about the cockroach who survived armegeddon who was born as a centipede and thus ineligible to be king roach?"

Posted by: Bear Author Profile Page | August 20, 2008 3:07 PM

Bear seems to be comparing SoetorObama to a roach. I'll go along with that description. Try researching his "hidden" past - you might agree.

Chloe
A joke troll, I imagine
or someone wanting to drive up their numbers.

Jack

Democrats to review nominating process:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080820/ap_on_el_pr/primary_scramble

Chloe,

Re: Craw Craigford

I knew Craig didn't write it, but I had to read it three times before I realized that the author had played around with Craig's name.

Just chalk it up to someone's attempt at humor. He or she was so impressed with himself that he wanted to link it here.

chloe

It is both, a political comic wanna be site with no commenters so probably no traffic.

Jack

Julie

Thanks for the info The magic word is "unpaid". I did a lot of it for money (not enough). I didn't retire to have my time consumed by the unpaid variety. If I'm to do it for free it will be on my schedule. :-)

The new populist in Virginia.

Barack Obama:
"If you give me that opportunity, if you give me that chance, I will fight for you every single day," he pledged. "I'll wake up every day in that White House thinking about those people in Martinsville."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080820/ap_on_el_pr/obama;_ylt=AkKXnwR72_Olc4SxnE0ockZh24cA

Corey,

The one thing they need to do is get rid of those "weighted" votes. People move around too much these days. To punish one section of a state in favor of another section of the state based upon ballots from four years before is completely assinine and a violation of the whole one person one vote ideal.

Ed, I know what you mean. I did the same thing.

On his radio show, Sean Hannity is pushing this story very hard. More of SoetorObama's "hidden" past.
============================
“Annenberg-Gate” - It’s not the crime, it’s the cover up

"There has been some very interesting blogosphere discussion in reaction to the National Review piece on the blocking of access to research material on the Chicago Annenberg Challenge today."

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/08/19/annenberg-gate-its-not-the-crime-its-the-cover-up/

Barack Obama:
"If you give me that opportunity, if you give me that chance, I will fight for you every single day," he pledged. "I'll wake up every day in that White House thinking about those people in Martinsville."

Gee, arena't these Hillary's words verbatim from her campaign?

Beth from Missouri: If you were Obama, who would you pick and why?
Craig Crawford: Hillary. I can see her as the Democratic Dick Cheney, running things on Capitol Hill and taking hits while Obama enjoys the stage.

More Senators endorsed Obama than Clinton, even though she'd served longer. What does that say about her success running things on Capitol Hill?

"Annenberg-Gate"

Max
where are you boy. this is yours, your the one worried about all the little nonprofits that Obama has connections with.

all of your posts show just how desperate the rightwingers are.

All hat and no cattle son.

Jack

Cat Balu

yes she can!

VEEPSTAKES: One Last Clinton Scenario

Ok now. I don't read the nation, but followed a link here, and I liked this article for obvious reasons.

"If Obama takes the stage in front of the Old State Capital in Springfield, Illinois, Saturday with Evan Bayh at his side, it will be news -- but not very exciting news. If he does so with Joe Biden, it will be bigger new -- but it's not like Biden brings the "wow" factor.

If Obama takes the stage with Clinton at his side, it will be the dominant news story of the weekend, the convention and perhaps of the fall campaign."

Indeed, it could create that wave of excitement that Obama needs to have not just a triumphal convention but a triumphal campaign."
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/campaignmatters/346742

lol
Damn close , cat
If it works use it, she didn't invent the style.

Jack

""I'll wake up every day in that White House thinking about those people in Martinsville."

Hope this isn't said in too many cities or he will never get out of bed.

Of course, maybe Hillary could think of half of the cities for him

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/08/clinton-is-the-least-boring-vp.html#comment-130356

Very inspiring, I'm sure, but Icould swear I have heard that somewhere before.... Call me a skeptic, but if he's elected president I doubt that he'll think about those folks in Martinsville every morning. I hope that's not where his attention goes.

Chloe,

I had him tapping her on the shoulder in the middle of her Tuesday night speech for the WOW factor.

Now if he does name her, they can skip the roll call meant to acknowledge her delegates, and go direct to vote by acclimation if they want. Big Wow and a time saver.

Jamie, and just think. He'd even get my vote, no questions asked.

I have changed my mind and think Hillary should be on the ticket either way. If they lost, they couldn't blame her for it given the way things have been going with him alone. The ticket needs some life, some fire - right now it is just humming along. I just saw one of his ads and thought it almost soporific.

"The ticket needs some life, some fire -"

Yes Bethy. Some excitement.
And we'd all be gladly on the same team again.

Trip

"What does that say about her success running things on Capitol Hill?"

It says that a lot of them owe their elections, financial well being and committees to Ted Kennedy and they know which side of their bread is buttered.

A good friend of mine from high school married a girl from Martinsville. I went to Martinsville for their wedding.

This

http://s.wsj.net/media/obama_unity_art_400_20080627143529.jpg

vs This

http://blog.mlive.com/elections_source/2008/02/large_080226-obama-biden.jpg

"I went to Martinsville for their wedding."

It's a small world Corey.
Is your life getting back together. And your mom's ok?

Yeah, those southern Virginia (or anywhere else for that matter) towns of 15,000 will be the first thing on his mind. That's the size of the town I live in - East Podunk is my nickname for it. I'm not sure our Governor has thought about this town more than twice since he was elected. Of course we don't have a NASCAR track, which I'm sure is one of Barack's favorite sports.

I like the first picture best Jamie.

well, time to move along - later, dudes.

Conflicting reports on Tubbs Jones' fate
"Countering numerous media reports of her death, doctors for Rep. Stephanie Tubbs Jones say that she is on life support and still alive".
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12669.html

"S. Tubbs Jones is in Hospital near Cleveland. DIane Feinstein broke ankle and will not be at convention."
julie at 6:06 am

jamie, when sds can't make the convention, are there alternates to take their places as there are for others?

Looks like the Rules Committee is going to get a workout at the Democratic Convention. What wasn't mentioned was that Obama might also propose to do away with primaries and instead only hold caucuses (:<8)...

"Barack Obama's campaign will call next week for the creation of a new commission to revise the rules for selecting a presidential nominee in 2012 with a goal of reducing the power of superdelegates, whose role became a major point of contention during the long battle between Obama and Hillary Clinton."

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/08/20/obama_clinton_looking_to_dimin.html?hpid=topnews

"California Democratic Party Chairman Art Torres will now lead California's 441-member convention delegation, party spokesman Bob Mulholland said."
http://www.sacbee.com/102/story/1169342.html

If SoetorObama picked Hillary for VP, many PUMAs would continue their efforts to dig up "dirt" in his "hidden" past so that he would be forced to drop out. Then Hillary could easily move to the top of the ticket. PUMAs don't want him as POTUS - he is a fraud and con man.

"What wasn't mentioned was that Obama might also propose to do away with primaries and instead only hold caucuses"(:<8)...

That's good news spike.

Gordo

"Chicago Annenberg Challenge worked to increase the ability of schools to better themselves by investing in the "on the ground" improvement efforts of networks - schools connected with an external partner organization. Simultaneously, the Chicago Annenberg Challenge contributed groundbreaking research to the field of education concerning how to improve schools. By offering support through professional development and technical assistance, teaching and learning improved, the quality and quantity of professional development increased, and the community became more knowledgeable and better equipped to create successful school reform."

http://www.annenberginstitute.org/challenge/sites/chicago.html

~~~~~~~Real radical organization there.
I'm sure Barack is real ashamed of his association with it.~~~~~~~

Jack

patd

I honestly don't know the rules governing the SDs. They don't have alternates, but they might have proxies. Many of them head of their delegations and the delegations all have a set number of votes to cast.

How that would be handled in the event of death or injury, I don't know, but I suspect some form of alternate, but whether they were bound to cast their vote as the missing SD would I"m not sure.

We now have three known HIllary SDs gone.

Chloe
Glad you liked that Rolling Stone's Michael Moore piece.I have just caught up,thankyou so much for all the wonderful links.Very diverse and enjoyable!
Jamie
I clicked on the link with Hill and Obama and its like WOW,WOW! I click on Obama and Biden and its like,Ok and well FLAT! Love your tap on the shoulder fantasy,the thought thrills me...

Gordo

All that proves is that the PUMAs who listen to your sites are closet Republicans and not Democrats at all, so we don't need them.

"We now have three known HIllary SDs gone"

Do you here that Gordo?

The bodies just keep piling up.

Jack

Spike - where did you get the info re Obama wanting to hold only caucuses, not primaries?

Bethy, I read this as tongue in cheek teasing

"(:<8)...

I don't believe it is serious.
Besides I think the states have the say on a primary or caucus.

Jack

Bethy

I believe he was reading this article that Corey posted.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080820/ap_on_el_pr/primary_scramble

Jack

Same! bethyboo. would like a little more info on that.

My readin of that article Jack is just the opposite, but I agree States have a lot to say about their primary election processes.

Rez -- that "debate" coach who mooned the opponent after she shrieked f-you, is from my alma mater. I wish to hell something that fun had happened when I was there!

Rez, I believe Spike is to go to the convention next week.
Maybe he is just in training for all of those convention parties. As I said I think it was a joke.

Jack

GORDO,

If true, it wouldn't be an innovation. Remember when republican Leslie King became president ?

Leslie was our first unelected president. The guys running the MSM said, "Look! The System is working !!! " That was when we officially became a banana republic, and set the stage for the election of 2000, when the Electoral College was replaced by 4 lunatics and a harridan. Anyway, there is precedent for such a president in your bananarepublican history.

More recently, Minnesota elected a governor who operated under an assumed name: James Janos, whose stage/political alias was jesse ventura.

Patsi,

I forwarded that Utube to my wife and suggested to her that it sounded like some of her meetings and classes she's told me about.
I had to laugh, after things quieter down that prof said something like '"I'm not asking childish". lol
Realize, both of those screaming are PhDs.

hey thanks to the Trail Mixers we had a lively online session at CQ Politics today. thanks, gang (my,my, EdVB, your kids ask a lot of questions)

for those interested in my summer longhair experiment, getting it cut tomorrow -- should have tried that in the winter, too hot for that

Thanks, Jack, for the link.

I don't interpret that quite as definitely as Spike, but he could very well have hit the nail on the head. The idea of caucuses is ludicrous. I'm beginning to think Obama has lost his sense of reality. Some of his talk sounds as if he sees himself as running the party, but he's neglecting the Chicago machine which is running him. They will select his veep for him, and they won't let Hillary in, I bet.

Am I the only one who thinks this campaign looks a lot like John Kerry's?

DJ Jack, afternoon interlude FYI

2 best money making pole dancing songs there ever were:
LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-RdAzkKlXY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOhEC6inses&feature=related

Gordo, nice one below--I am thinking the same thing--the legal name does matter>

"Jamie

Try to get it through your skull that it does matter. There is something illegal going on."

Oregon DEM: I would add Senator Ron Wyden in the group of selfless and civic-minded politicians. He really cares about helping Oregonians and works day and night for his constituents. Ron really gets a charge out of helping people. He is a boy scout when it comes to ethics and respects and carefully considers the opinions of Oregonians when it comes to making decisions on votes. I was on his DC staff for 12 years. I know that people might disagree with some of his decisions, or be impatient with his centrist tendencies, but Ron is a true friend of Oregonians.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/08/clinton-is-the-least-boring-vp.html#comment-130307

Conventions launch most important period of campaign
"You'll hear the talking heads talking incessantly about "convention bounce" in coming days. The immediate onus is now on Obama. If the senator from Illinois can come across as firm, resolute and prepared, both through his acceptance speech as well as what surrogates and his running mate say about him while the nation is focused on the Democrats, Obama will have gone a long way in passing the commander-in-chief test."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/columnist/raasch/2008-08-20-raasch-column-82008_N.htm

Tomorrow.

whskyjack ------------------------

Then why the cover-up? It's because of SoetorObama's "hidden" past.
============================

Jamie ------------------------------

Wrong! I know some PUMAs are "closet" Repubs. They slip-up and it's easy to spot. There is very little chance that SoetorObama will be able to withstand the Repub assualt - they have devastating ammo. He will be "crushed" under the weight of revelations from his "hidden" past.
============================

xrepublican------------------------

He is trying to conceal his "hidden" past. That's believed to be the reason for the fake COLB. He doesn't want his "hidden" Indonesian past opened up. The name Barry Soetoro is the key that opens the door to that part of his "hidden" past.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/cgi-bin/mt/mt-c.cgi#comment-130405
Bethy
I agree.I was just thinking that earlier, as I was reading all the new poll results.What made me think the two campaigns are so similar is its the same for me personally.I didn't like John Kerry ,just like I don't like Sen. Obama.I thought at the very least Kerry like Obama is smart and a problem solver.I thought no way would the American people vote for Bush again!! Well here we are again and I'm thinking no way would the American people vote for McCain! I hope Obama can change the way things are going?Republican's have to go...

"Realize, both of those screaming are PhDs. "

ROFL! I love this sh&t! Glad you reminded me about the need to forward that clip...my son and daughter will crack up!

Craig,

Great work. Thanks for fielding all of them. I just wanted to make sure you didn't get bored. Guess I'd better cut and paste, so each kid can know what words I put in their mouths.

I also want to apologize to others regarding guessing which questions were from me. I wouldn't have suggested any sort of game if I knew of the situation with Congresswoman Tubbs-Jones.

GORDO,

Ah. I think I see.

So, what is it that O did as a little boy that has to be hidden from the public?

Craig,

One more comment on today's Q & A session. I loved the idea that the last questioner was Willie from Ark. and that it was about Hillary's chances for VP. I wish I was smart enough to have made that one up.

I guess I would have added, "If she gets the job, is she likely to be away from home a lot?" But I'm guessing you would have seen through that ruse.

Craig, are your locks long enough to donate?

Gordo

Did it ever occur to you that his "hidden" past isn't all that well hidden. I mean putting all those clues in a book that sells millions probably isn't that great a hiding place.

Gordo, Gordo, Gordo...sigh. I hope you're not allowed to operate heavy machinery.

Five more months. The question is becoming how much more destruction can the Bush regime do until they are finally thrown out on their ear. Latest, gutting the endangered species act

http://www.salon.com/env/feature/2008/08/20/endangered_species_act/

Tony - I didn't dislike John Kerry because there was literally no one else, and I don't "dislike" Obama yet. I do dislike him for potus at this time. I do dislike the way he speaks and the way he has run his campaign and the way his supporters have behaved and the way the media has gone nuts about him and his connection with the Chicago machine - all of those things. They might all have to do with his lack of political experience.

Kerry's campaign seemed to drag to me, and right now Obama's is seeming to drag to me. He needs a fighter in order to win, and the only fighter out there is Hillary, but I'm sure Chicago won't let him pick her. She can't even campaign for him if they keep her out.

If he loses this election, it won't be Hillary's fault, or Bill's either. The dnc is a dinosaur and it backed a novice when it had the best politician and worker right there. There will be holy hell to pay if he loses - and maybe even if he wins.

I think that Obama is going to pick Hillary. And surprise...I have no problem with it.

I have started to put together a blog mainly for pictures to share with friends and family. I hope to be able to post some pictures and maybe a few comments next week while I am at the National Convention. For now, I have a couple of entries from the Iowa State Fair and will put up more fair pix when I get time.

http://zoeyadventures.blogspot.com/2008/08/just-one-more-cow-maybe-2-large-pig.html

"Kerry's campaign seemed to drag to me,"

Bethy -- Kerry must be trying to change his "slow to react" reputation. He's issued a statement mourning Stephanie Tubbs Jones's death.

But if Hillary or Bill do anything to sabotage Obama's run for president, I can GUARANTEE that the only black vote she'll get when she runs will be from Vernon Jordan.

Kerry should have waited a little longer, because the Cleveland Plain Dealer is reporting that the family confirms her death now.

Damn. Damn. Damn.

If Obama announced his VP tomorrow (I don't think he will wait until Saturday) and it was to be Sibelius, he would be doing it in Iowa. She will be here for a Women's luncheon and an afternoon of crowd building phone banking for the upcoming convention house parties.

from mr. magnanimous to mr ball buster. "Mr democrat" strikes again.

who cares what you have a problem with, chucklehead?

"Spike - where did you get the info re Obama wanting to hold only caucuses, not primaries?"

Just got back from supper, and wanted to make sure everyone understood I was just kidding about the movement toward caucuses. Here in Iowa, we love our caucuses (ever since 1846). We tried holdiing a primary on in 1913, but it was such a miserable experience, they've been holding caucuses ever since.

Fortunately for me, it's fellow Iowegian Zoey who is going to the DNC. They would probably kick me out for going to all the fun receptions instead of all the boring political ones hosted by our esteemed elected officials...

Bethy
You so wonderfully expressed what I feel too! I voted for Kerry. I will vote Obama because McCain is simply not an option for me or in my mind this country! I also want Hillary as VP.I believed her when she said 'Im a work horse not a show horse".I think she would be good for Obama and good for this country...Keep Hope Alive!!

I am an idiot.

Obviously, you do Rialto. Thanks for responding.

You guys woulda killed them in vaudeville. LOL.

"if Hillary or Bill do anything to sabotage Obama's run for president, I"

Go screw yourself, Bye Bye. One of the finest individuals we had in congress has died. And all you can do is threaten the Clintons. Just like you and "alf" threatened Stephanie Tubbs Jones and Maxine Waters. I repeat, screw you.

and youre always a swine.

well, gotta leave you guys now, dont want to sully up craig's blog any further. Ta Ta.

Stephanie Tubbs-Jones was the kind of politician we all wish were representing us. She was a beautiful lady with great values and she will be missed.

Very sad story about Rep Tubb Jones. It will be tough to fill the Congresswoman's shoes.

I hope to be off my computer time out by the convention.

Got to agree with Zoey. My gut tells me Obama will announce sometime tomorrow sometime between 11am and 4pm EDT.

1) The word is Obama will be campaigning with the VP nominee on Saturday.

2) People will be traveling on Friday, and the campaign will want to have their talking points out the main players before Friday night when people start to arrive in Denver (Rules Committee meets Saturday morning).

3) Getting it out around 11 gets them into the noon news cycle, with plenty of time for interviews for the evening news.

4) Waiting until around 3pm EDT gives them time to set up the evening news cycle, as well as the talking-head shows in the evening.

5) You only put out the trash on Friday. That leaves tomorrow, UNLESS they plan on trying to make it a "surprise" in Springfield Saturday morning (ala G.H.W. Bush with Dan Quail in New Orleans). From the way he acted, I think even Quail was surprised to hear he was the nominee)...

Zoey -- interesting conspiracy theory about Sebalius being named here. Obama first won here, did the "Victory over Clinton" rally here...Announcing his VP choice here, then flying to Chicago for a day of meetings before a Saturday rally in Springfield? hmmmm....

Spike

In the first part of the show, Matthews pegged the percentage of hold outs from the primary cycle waiting on the VP nomination at 12% all originally Hillary backers. How many of them, and they are all Democrats, would take one look at Sebellius and say, "this is one election I can miss".

They wouldn't be wild about Bayh or Biden, but they would be acceptable without enthusiasm which could hurt since these are the worker bees.

Sebellius would be another slap in the face and they would be pissed.

Spike - thanks for clearing that up. I guess some of you Iowans are happy with the caucuses since you keep them, but I wonder how many people don't like them and just say nothing. It's up to the people of Iowa, but I personally think they are an abomination.
I don't think you can safely assume that people have given their own honest opinions.

But what really bothers me is that it requires people to vote at a certain time on a certain day at a certain place and for a certain length of time - no ifs. ands, or buts.
That's beyond inconvenient for many people and essentially dis-enfranchises many. Does that bother you? Is there at all a disgruntled group of voters who don't like caucuses?

I'm not arguing with you - interested in your feelings about the criticisms about caucuses. As for me, I think public testimony belongs in churches and courtrooms, but I think that's obvious.

I see that you're still hitting the bottle, Patsi. You're such an idiot. One has nothing to do with the other. We ALL mourn the death of Stephanie Tubbs-Jones, someone I probably have more of a connection to than you ever would. And as for my comment on the black vote, it's nothing different than what most of your veiled threats about white women not voting for Obama for one irrational reason or the other. So to you I say this sincerely: F*%& You.

I loved watching Stephanie Tubbs Jones talk. She was warm and bubbly and optimistic and knew her stuff and didn't get pushed around. Her poor family must be bereft.

Mr. D

I can't speak for Patsi, but you really tick me off when you slam Hillary. Ever since the Unity appearance, she has appeared several times on behalf of Obama. She's going to be in Florida tomorrow doing just that Just because the media no longer follows her around doesn't mean she isn't working for him. She has done everything asked of her.

It is really disgusting that you keep ragging on her with the "sabotage" line. It is all just garbage from the professional Hillary haters and you are way to bright to fall for that stuff.

Bye Bye -- So now no white person can mourn Stephanie Tubbs Jones? Because we just don't "get" it? You are a disgrace to your race.

And by the way, that lunch I had with my friend...the one you said lied to me all the time about race? She said -- and I quote -- "He can kiss my black a$$"

One: The Clintons are political animals. That means she does everything in her own interest. I said that IF she sabotages the Obama campaign, and that is not out of the realm, then my comment stands. Personally, I think Hillary is going to be fine. But I think Bill is uncontrollable. If he does anything to denigrate Obama, then that goes over to Hillary and she will feel the reprecussions.

Jamie ------------------------------

"Did it ever occur to you that his "hidden" past isn't all that well hidden. I mean putting all those clues in a book that sells millions probably isn't that great a hiding place."

Posted by: Jamie Author Profile Page | August 20, 2008 6:35 PM
========================

Much of what is known about SoetorObama comes from one source - him. Investigators are discovering that his "facts" do not match the TRUTH of his "hidden" past.

From experience on this blog, I know that the subject matter in this link is upsetting to some. So I won't post any details. The people we choose to associate with in our lives matters. The Repubs will inform the population about "Frank" and many others in his "hidden" past.
========================

"Barack Obama is still an enigma because a lot of his life has been carefully hidden ... His campaign is hypersensitive because his life is filled with awkward facts and dubious associations. Obama has declared his personal history out of bounds and scrubbed it clean. The media are obediently censoring things we need to know.

Which is exactly why the media can never be trusted. They have perverse news judgment; making headlines out of the scrapings of the barrel and wiping out all the relevant facts. As George Orwell wrote about the BBC, they are the Ministry of Truth whose real mission is to peddle Official Lies.

More and more people are sick of getting lied to every day, and the newsies are finally losing their shirts. Here's hoping they freeze."

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/08/why_obamas_red_mentor_is_news.html

"Obama makes an art out of passing the buck"- cartoon

Article on "it's above my pay grade"..
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/opinion/op_ed/view.bg?articleid=1113869

Patsi, you reveal yourself by each word you type. Where in my message did I say that only "black people" could mourn STJ? You interpreted it that way through your racist brain. My connection to her has nothing to do with race, but through our mutual acquaintances and our numerous meetings over the years. That's why my connection is deeper than yours. So you mull that through your pea brain. And as for your friend, your "black friend" I seriously question the sanity of anyone (of any color) who would hang out with you (unless you're picking up the tab).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkw0e0Jcn9A

Gordo

" know that the subject matter in this link is upsetting to some."

It's not upsetting. Most of us just think you are a crank , but there may be hope for a return to some semblance of sanity because you seem like a pleasant person if more than a little bit deluded.

Jamie, my cousin lives in Melbourne. It was headed there last night.

BS Bye Bye -- everything you say is tinged with racist accusations.

Mr. D

Could you possibly be any uglier or disgusting. You entered this blog that way and nothing about you has improved despite the name change.

No, your pea brain interprets them that way. And when you get called on it, you fly into your drunken rage.

bethyhoo -- I understand the reasoning -- especially from those people who live in primary states (I've lived in both). But the numbers from other elections, including primaries around here tell a different story....

1) More people attended the caucuses this time than voted in the last school board elections -- by almost a 2 to 1 margin (we hold school board elections separately from others because they're nonpartison).

2) Almost as many people participated in the caucuses than voted in our last primary with an open seat for governor, with 3-4 people running on both sides.

Candidates don't tend to bring up the "people can't get to them" argument unless they're on the losing side. If you look back through the Trailmix archives from around Dec-Jan, you'll find a treasure trove of discussions about the caucus/primary issues.

The Presidential preference caucuses are part of our heritage around here. It's humbling, for instance, to see a retired farmer stand up and ask a potential President his/her take on the nuclear situation in Pakistan and how that effects the national security of the US.

Believe me when I tell you that standing up publically for a candidate is taken seriously and with the understanding we are helping choose a President for ALL the people of the United States.

I'll get off my soapbox now...

Jamie,

Your protestations are so disingenuous. Spare us.

Mr.D
I really enjoyed you the other day,thought you turned a page.I guess I was wrong.Your threats regarding Hillary and Bill,well they amaze me.I think your very smart and I do respect that,but why all the BS!! I think you just like your driveby effect!! I thank Patsi for her responce!! Think about it!! It was nice you don't have a problem with Hillary as VP though cause we really need to win.Just stop with all the threats,you don't speak for all AA's,just like I don't speak for all gay men....

This forum hasn't hosted discussion in many months. It's for bitching, constantly bitching, moaning and picking apart someone's words. Half the people here are drunk and the other half are very lonely- the combination is deadly to any blog.

Would you guys please take your pissing contest outside the bar?

Mr. D

Your comments are insufferable

Spare Us

Tony,

I was making a political calculation. Do you really think the hardcore Clintonites aren't making the same calculations when they talk about their "discomfort" with Obama. This is not some mystery. Bill has burnt his bridge with African Americans and he knows it. If African American feel that Hillary and Bill caused Obama's loss, they will NEVER receive the African American vote. What's so wrong with stating that? It's a political reality. And if that's the case, Hillary will never become president.

I would Spike, but Patsi would win, standing up.

spike......sorry.......that's a good idea......going back outside now, thanks for the reminder.

Alicia. I agree with you about Senator Wyden. I remember how gutsy he was to challenge an incumbant Democratic congressman when he first got elected to Congress.

He is truly committed to National Health Care and fights for the elderly.

He would be a very good President or V.P. Unfortunately, he is not showhorse.

I do have one disagreement with him. He failed to endorse any candidate during the primaries, pointing out that he would need to work well with the new President to achieve national health care. I think that was pure hogwash...one of thefew times I've been upset with Wyden.

Sturge, there was an episode of "The Honeymooners" where Ralph was to announce the results of the Raccoon Lodge's new membership drive. Ralph was in charge of recruiting new members. He announced that he did not recruit any new members since he had taken over the assignment a year ago. Norton applauded Ralph's performance because, "At least we didn't lose any members this year. Last year, we lost 3!"

MD,
What's made you think about him selecting H?

Could someone please verify the percentage of the total vote that is AA , 16%? Women are 52?

Obama's goin down
The Night Chicago Died – Paper Lace
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwwaGXcZ6Wo&feature=related

I think because Obama is practical. I see no practical reason to not pick Hillary, except that Bill is uncontrollable. I think she found herself as a candidate in the last few month, he could give the convention a "bombshell" aspect, and she represents change by being a woman on the ticket. Call it a hunch, but I think Obama at heart is damn practical and will pick her.

Mr Democrat,

So tell me what has Obama done for the AA Community? He did not attend several of their meetings, Hillary did, McCain did. Obama was the one that played the race card on Bill. Eastern Arkansas small towns are for the most part, more than 50% black, Bill lived, worshiped, worked and was governor with the AA of Arkansas. He and Hillary have done more for the AA community than Obama ever will.
Some of the black newspapers even complained that Obama would not even advertise in their papers..
SO tell us exactly what Bill and Hillary have done to the AA community? All Obama has done has played the race card every single time someone says boo to him. He is not ready for prime time..

Jamie -----------------------------

"It's not upsetting."

Posted by: Jamie Author Profile Page | August 20, 2008 8:32 PM
==========================

Some people do find any mention of McCarthy and CP-USA very upsetting. It's not always a smear, sometimes it's the truth.

Do you know about the Russian language class and how that resulted in Barry/Barack? Just who enrolled in Russian language classes in the 50s and 60s? Guess.

Mr D,

Please consider this, despite your churlish and vituperative remarks, both President and Senator Clinton to serve you.

Oldseahag,

It's not the overall percentage of AA vote. It's where that vote is concentrated. No Democrat wins any statewide or national election if the AA vote doesn't show up enthusiastically. We're the only voting block that votes 8 to 9 out of 10 for the Democratic candidate, making us more than reliable.

When thinking about typing the fifty cent words, did you forget a few nickel ones, Flatus? Your statement makes no sense.

I read it all the time

Corey.....ha ha......going down now.....see yas later, dude.......

lol

Mr. D- That's an interesting theory, you're saying that the 16 % AA vote has more inpact than the 50 something percent of women?

Sing it Struge!

Here is a link to a condolence book for Congresswoman Stephanie Tubbs Jones:

http://obits.cleveland.com/CLEVELAND/GB/GuestbookView.aspx?PersonId=116072806

Actually, Bye Bye, because of your stupid "liar" accusations, my friend and I had a long and interesting conversation about many things including race, gender, friendship and motherhood. We came to some interesting conclusions, but I won't sully the conversation by telling you anything about it.

"Your statement makes no sense"

That's okay, it's the thought that counts.

MD,
I agree on his practicality, actually it's maddening sometimes.
I originally said I was opposed to her on the ticket when I was really just opposed to helping pay her bills, which she ran up needlessly in my opinion. But later I felt he would pick her if he thought she could guarantee a win because he's driven for that goal. So, maybe it's a combination plus the party unity didn't come about as his campaign envisioned. I guess we'll learn soon enough.

That's too bad, Patsi. I was waiting with bated breath.

So MD whatcha drinking.

I've got a nephew a lot like you, spent summers on grandpa's farm. He claims to be an Ozarker, but in reality he is pure suburban. I've seen the suburbs do that to the children of many ethnic groups. Cambodian , Mexican, AA, Ozark. The suburbs are the great change agent in our society. A person that grows up in suburban america may still identify with his parents ethic heritage but in reality they are changed and become suburban American in their identity.

As i've said before you speak in clishes of liberal suburbia.

Jack

Ignore the knotheads on this blog. It is much more pleasant concentrating on the posts of reasonable people who make interesting comments while maintaining a friendly tone.

MD

I don't know if you caught it the other day but I truly enjoyed you posts the other day while we waited for mudcat. they were honest in my opinion and went to the core of the matter.
The problem as I see it on this site is too many times you avoided the honest posts for the more fun flaming posts. People have a long memory. As you sow so shall you reap. Enjoy the harvest as you have earned it all.
As to how you make amends? Damned if I know.

Jack

Jack

And Jack, I would counter by saying that the cliches surrounding what people think TODAY'S South is all about is more about fifty years ago versus reality. The urban areas of today's South are indistiguishable from urban cities anywhere. The idea that the South has some cohesive culture is more myth than reality, mainly because the majority of people living in the South today don't have roots there, but elsewhere. I can get the reference, but an author said that the notion of "Southern Identity" is less based from historical Southern traditions, but more from Midwestern traditions brought down to Southern/SunBelt states. So I may be full of liberal surburban thoughts, but the idea of a pure conservative Southern thought pattern is just as disingenuous.

Jack,

Sorry, but I respond to dumb comments and Patsi decided that me saying that Clinton would pay a political price in the AA community if she was seen as not supporting Obama was an affront to STJ. That, like most things Patsi says, was ridiculous. So it escalated from there.

This is a blog. I'm not losing much sweat over pissing people off. I say what I have to say.

The Mothers of Invention - Wowie Zowie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ziU-hj3EGI

Lardass if your listening, My wife says if you don't remember Freedom palace.............................

Jack

An interesting poll from NBC/WSJ reports that only 1 in 2 Hillary primary supprters (I believe that is 50%) now support Obama, . This seems to be closer to what I suspected , vs. MSM reports.

"For Obama, he receives the support of just one in two voters who backed Hillary Clinton in the primaries, and he trails his Republican rival on handling terrorism, the war in Iraq and international crises like the recent conflict between Russia and Georgia."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26314990/

My apologies if this has already been posted,didn' t read through whole thread.

A brain aneurysm is what killed my step-dad. At the time, the doctor eased our shock by explaining "he never knew what hit him." In other words, there was virtually no pain. It was small comfort to my mom and us, but comfort nonetheless.

I am truly sad for the family of Ms. Tubbs Jones.

Gordo

"Just who enrolled in Russian language classes in the 50s and 60s? Guess"

Thousands of people hoping to go to work for the State Department among many others. I dabbled in learning Russian in the 80s. Our current Secretary of State is fluent in Russian and all of the balkan languages learned in the 60s (not that it seems to be doing much good).

You really have to get out of the house more.

So Mr. D, I can only guess you never studied debating or psych. Any chance you could argue without referring to one's comments as "ridiculous" or dumb"? Honestly, one can advance their opinion more efficiently without resorting to such judgements.

Mr.D
Hey you do bring alot to the table.I just wish you were not always trying to offend others!! Take a look at why you enjoy throwing all your punches at us?Patsi is a true Democrat and not your enemy! I am voting for Sen.Obama as are most here.I admit he was not my first choice,but I've come around just the same.I support the Clintons because I believe they are the best are party has offered and continues to offer through Hillary! I remember Bye Bye and I try to forget all the nastyness you have spewed,please try to accept us as we are and not as your enemy!!!

I apologize if I sounded argumentative or unreasonable.

julie

Jamie

I admit I have a copy of the constitution of the Soviet Union down on the book shelves in the basement. Right next to a book of dirty limericks. Marx would be proud.

Yes I am drinking but it is true

Jack

Julie, looked upthread, no apologies required for honesty.

So sorry Ivy Green and thanks for sharing that. Have heard the same with others. Thankfully I can only imagine that it is harder on those they leave behind by the suddenness of it all.

Spike - thanks for the reasoning behind the preference for caucuses. You still haven't sold me, tho. I'm for secret ballots all the way. There is no assurance that people don't come to caucuses due to pressure, economic or otherwise. If voting numbers go down in a primary, maybe that's an indication of how many people are satisfied with either candidate.

I don't think anyone has the right to know the political views of any other person. Voting publicly should not be a requirement for enfranchisement. (What an awkward word!) I wonder what would happen if people who wanted to caucus could do so but a secret ballot was also possible. Might be interesting.

I would be very unhappy if I were told I couldn't vote unless I said outloud what my vote would be.

I'm just disagreeing, mind you, not arguing. You can live with it and that's all that matters. Thanks for your answer, again.

Alicia,

Thank you for the link to the condolence book for Ms. Tubbs-Jones

Sorry Tony, but you'll have more credibility for your argument when I see you dissect Patsi's typically diversive posts. Again, this whole thing began with a Patsi post that began and ended with "screw you". You can rationalize that if you like, but you're going to get a vitriolic response when that's the dialogue. So perhaps you should redefine "true Democrat" and "enemy". Then maybe we can understand that you're giving much credit to a person who doesn't deserve it.

KGC - glad to hear you're making computer progress.
Hang in there. Also that you'll be going to Asilomar........

MD

There are commonalities amoung urban areas just as there are amoung suburban areas. The liberal midtown university gentrified areas are much the same. but the poorer areas are very much dependent on what ethnic group settled there. Yet one must always remember they are always people. Your comment the otherday about the clannish nature of AA comunity can be applied to almost every ethnic enclave. I described it for rural ozarkers , you did so for AA, yet I see the same for recently emigrated Somalies, The Mexican immigrants I worked with from Colima Mexico, and several of the Cambodian/ southeast asian immigrants I know. Where am I going with this? Damned if I know. except I finds it more comfortable living with people who live close to a traditional culture rather than modernity, even if I don't understand all of the ins and outs. In my neighborhood I know my place and 90% of the time that is the outsider and I understand that role.

Jack

Jamie -------------------------------------

"Just who enrolled in Russian language classes in the 50s and 60s? Guess"

"Thousands of people hoping to go to work for the State Department among many others."

Posted by: Jamie Author Profile Page | August 20, 2008 9:52 PM
=================================

I thought so - your answer shows that you are not aware of the 'hidden" past of Stanley Ann and Barack/Barry. The Repubs are preparing to raise the curtain on the "hidden" past of SoetorObama. His "hidden" past will be a horror show for the Dems. They will be running from SoetorObama as far and fast as possible. Remember these words: "HIDDEN" PAST You'll be hearing that over and over. Heard it here first.

I watch visit this blog daily and Patsi has a different opinion than you, but she is not attacking and bullying- more like on the defense.

I am so tired of this whole "true Democrat" trip. She has never appeared as anything other than a Democrat. Does she not deserve that title because her first choice wasn't Obama? Do only those supporting obama deserve that moniker?

MD

This didn't begin with Patsi's comment tonight and you know it. You came on here and were a first class A**hole, that is just a basic fact and one you are going to have to live with.
I've been on line for over 10 years and I've stepped on toes and made people angry. If you want to have a different relationship then you are going to have to demonstrate you are not an A**hole. Changing a reputation tacks time. It is not done in a week or even a year. When you get a less than friendly response just remember , You earned it fair and square so live with it.

Jack

Good Evening Gordo! How are you?

Thanks for your kind words, Sea. I have lost two dads - my "real dad" to lung/brain cancer (slow & painful), then my step-dad (quick & "painless"). I can't say which is better for the survivors - time to prepare and the associated anticipatory grief, or a sudden shock and no-chance-to-say-goodbye. Each have their pros and cons. Each have their path of grieving and healing.

Oh kid, you've had it tough. So sorry for any useless platitudes. know all about them- my mother kicked the nuns out of the funeral home when one said "well at least he is an angel now." at my brothers funeral! Sorry!!

sea------------------------

I'm researching SoetorObama's "hidden" past. Notice how the words "hidden" past get a reaction. They don't know how to deal with his "hidden" past! The Repubs know exactly how to use his "hidden" past to destroy SoetorObama and the Dem Party.

Tea Leaves: Interesting paragraph from a WaPo article about Obama's trip to Martinsville,VA

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/20/AR2008082002363.html?nav=rss_metro

Obama will campaign in Virginia again all day Thursday before flying home to Chicago, where he appears to have an open window on his schedule Friday -- one of a dwindling number of days when he can announce his running mate. He is expected to campaign with the choice in Springfield, Ill., on Saturday. An Obama aide knocked down at least one rumor: that he was planning to campaign in Indiana, home of Sen. Evan Bayh, on Saturday. That is not the case, the aide said.

Shunning Gordo? He wouldn't be first on my list of people who deserve shunning Bry Bry!

Same article stated that Obama appeared at the meeting of 300 "hand-picked" attendees -- and Mark Warner at his side. Warner really needs to be careful about how much he campaigns for Obama in Southside VA . Warner won there with 52 percent and he is very popular still, but if he too identified with Obama, that could change, and it will cost Warner more than it will cost Obama.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/20/AR2008082002363.html?nav=rss_metro

Gordo- they sure do!!! I was just sitting here wondering why it is a problem for anyone that you post links to what you have found and I should add that I like your persevence despite the negative reactions. Personally, aside from my own distaste for Obama and delusions with our Party, I like to know what the repubs are or will be up to this fall,.

Seahag

Gordo is clueless about Republican tactics.
period end of statement.

Jack

Jack - Your answer to MrD is right on the money and it applies to more than just MrD. I exchanged several interesting posts with him ( I thought so, mistakenly apparently) but finally decided he wants to be angry, and I won't take that away from him even if I could. It's his problem and I don't think he cares whether he has good conversation here or not. I doubt that he expects to change our minds this way - he wants us to know how angry he is, and doesn't want us to forget it.

At least, that is what he says - we don't get it and we don't understand and don't want to understand. I'm not reading his mind, just his words when I get caught.

Seahag

if you really want to know what the rightwingnuts are up to
http://corner.nationalreview.com/

Even they don't have a clue most days, they are just chattering and trying to sell books to the gullible true believers.

Jack

Sea,

Your mom sounds like my mom. My late sister too - she once punched a nun in the stomach - that was the height of her reach at the time, or else Sister would've got it in the kisser.

"Gordo is clueless about Republican tactics.
period end of statement."

Jack
==========================

Jack is clueless about Republican tactics.
period end of statement.

Bry Bry

You are loathed by many.

You're not finding disagreement with me there, Jack. I think one thing that complicates African Americans versus the other groups you named is that these new immigrants tend to become clannish around nationality. It's only after time do their nationalities begin to fade and they fall into the racial paradigms America runs on. And this is nothing new. Whether we're talking about the turn of the century with Jewish, Eastern and Southern Europeans, etc., they were first thought of as the other before being incorporated into America as white. One of the issues when we then put African Americans into this idea of assimilation is that we're never going to be white. And yet, we don't come from a different nationality (just a continent).

So who are we? African Americans are probably more American than anyone else. By culture and by forced law, we've accepted anyone with a "drop of black blood" into our race for centuries, meaning that our community can contain a Barack, a Jesse and a Harold Ford, without blinking. However, one trap we fall into, is thinking that since our goal is racial equality and the erasure of color lines, is that the African American community is no different than any other community, except (as I've heard white people say) we have "tans". To assert otherwise falls into our long legacy of thinking that to acknowledge an African American culture and community falls into the artificial laws of segregation and separate but not equal. Not true.

The African American community is quite open to sharing our culture with others, without hesistating. But it's folly when people OUTSIDE the black community are arrogant enough to say that they know us or that they have a true understanding of us. On the other hand, as a minority, African Americans and others have a very unique way of understanding whites. We're so often invisible in society that we can watch and understand when and where we fit in.

That said, an Obama presidency helps break psyche barriers. Too often, whites think that when black do something in a leadership position, they'll lose their own privilege because suddenly, blacks will switch the resources to their own advantage. And whether we're talking about sports, music, the arts, etc. the world has not ended because African Americans won something. And eventually, whites get used to it, sort of like black Miss Americas. No one thinks about it anymore, and the same thing will happen with an Obama presidency.

BTW, I'm glad that you respect being the other. It's the same thing I feel going to Hannukuh celebrations with our friends. I'm very much welcome to attend, have fun and join in the celebration. But at no time do I walk around saying that I know the Jewish community because I have Jewish friends.

Hey thanks for the link Jack! I didn't catch the whole thing on the news today, but they were saying that the Dems made their own "headfake" today. It was the buzzword of the day.

Bethy

MD has made several attempts to communicate and I am glad for the effort.
But he has a reservior of anger built up here. It is not going away overnight.
I'm a hardcase old bastard myself and have stepped on a few toes. There are a couple of people that do not speak politely to me because I have angered them. I know this and just like MD I earned it so I have to live with it.

Jack

Ms. Stephanie Tubbs-Jones; she was a LADY.................

Chloe; 10:21 am.......... "above his paygrade", wow, if we were to give him a raise, he would be on an equal footing with GOD.........
He's already snubbed Wesley Clark and Charlie Rangel by dis-inviting them to the convention.

I saw on the CNN crawl yesterday, that Ed Rendell says he's going to vote for Hillary at the convention, where are the rest of the super delegates that were railroaded by ms. pelosi, now's your time guys.

The only problen BO has with the Clintons is MO.

Rita

Sorry Jack. You're going to have to take a second look at good ole Patsi. I'm not trying to change any reputation. Your Patsi is a caustic, mean, racist and bitter old hack writer who gets away with her comments because she has toadies who aren't smart enough to think for themselves. There, I said it. Now, if you want to discuss tonight's commentary, then be honest and go back and trace it. You'll see that Patsi, instead of simply disagreeing, spit out her vodka tonic and poured gasoline on the fire. So don't be surprised when you get fire.

jeez Mr. D. around here (oldest black resort community in the country) the AA community isn't all that open minded all the time. The paper bag test is not so far in the past.

chloe- Clark got disinvited to the Convention?! Somehow that missed me. When was that?

Agreed, oldseahag. We internalized a lot of the same white supremacy notions as the general culture. But paper bag test or not, we were all in the same boat. To quote Malcolm X, they don't hang you because you're a Baptist or Methodist, they hang you because you're black.

well, true enough. Always wondered why they haven't put a moratorium on the death penalty again. Nothing changed.

if you really want to know what the rightwingnuts are up to

http://corner.nationalreview.com/

Jack
========================

There it is! Proof that Jack is totally clueless. He actually believes that NRO gives him insight. He is even more uninformed than I thought! Talk about clueless. Jack just won a Gold Medal in Ignorance. Way to go, Jack.

Gordo,please stop that, I don't often see you calling anybody names, I like that you just keep on hanging in there , keeping us abreast of everything you've been researching. I read Jack's post and it is also a good thing to know.

By the way, could you please email Viv? She asked you a couple of times in the last few threads- she has a computer question.

GUEST BOOK FOR OUR FRIEND FROM HERE IN OHIO, MS. TUBBS JONES: Please sign if you are a friend, also.

http://www.legacy.com/cleveland/GB/GuestbookView.aspx?PersonId=116072806&PageNo=10

Gordo
don't lose it buddy, sorry that I gave everybody a short cut to your talking points. well not really

Jack

Ivy Green- ROTFL!! Thanks for that,

sea ----------------------------

I'm just pointing out the truth. If Jack thinks that he is being informed about what the Repubs are planning by reading National Review Online, he is clueless, uninformed and ignorant about this subject. Notice how sometimes people who know the least believe that they have all the answers.

Jack
Thanks your the Greatest!! I appreciate ya!!

Sea - the black resort community you mentioned - is that the one with beautiful old victorians? If it is, I've seen a film of it, probably on HGTV. It made me want to go on vacation.

Jack - I know what you mean, and he's going to pay for it bey people mis-understanding him and firing back quickly. He doesn't care or want to admit he cares, and so the cycle will continue.

A lot of people here have said things that made me mad, but not the people themselves. I think people's feelings are valid and it's not always easy to say exactly what you mean. I just try to avoid posts from people whose posts I've learned will not sit well with me.

I would like to say, however, that I have never posted here when drunk - I like to pay attention to my drinks.
They are precious to me. I forget the other category Mr D would then put me in, since I'm never drunk, but it might have been that I am therefore stupid or maybe a racist. I categorically deny either of those as well. I am 70 or so pounds overweight, and am still disturbed with the primaries - so fat and with my own mind, that must count for something.

Well then,Its party time!!!! For some it sucks....

Twenty years ago Joe Biden had not one but two aneurysms.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6671934&mesg_id=6671934

No doubt this will have to be focussed upon by Obama a bit more closely , since we just lost Congresswoman Tubbs Jones today from the same genre of attack. Few remember why , as Mr. Crawford jokingly referred , in 1972 , no less than six prominent Dems REFUSED the veep slot after McGovern unceremoniously asked Tom Eagleton to leave the ticket: Eagleton had had shock therapy. McGovern backed his man.; the polls reported Americans were uncomfortable with a "mental patient" for VP,and after just three days Eagleton was just a footnote, and the whole disaster cilminated with Sargent Shriver accepting the spot.
God, it was awful to be a Democrat in those days...Nixon lying daily to the masses, McGovern calling him on it...nobody giving McGovern any credit .
Obama cannot make a blunder like that, even though Bien has been healthy these twenty years.
We need Evan Bayh. Dull as paint drying? BULLSHIT!!
I have seen him rock the house in Indiana...sure it was a long time ago but Bayh is hardly a dinosaur!
I also disagee that Biden presents his views so that Joe Sixpack can grasp them. Just go ask ANYONE in the street to explain the precepts of Biden's plan for Iraq. It a complicated maze of maybes and if-onlies and wild assumptions.

Bethy
I am disturbed with the primaries too..I hope for reform.I didn't want to vote for President this time because of it,but talked myself into it because of the closeness here in Florida...I was born and raised in Michigan and live and vote here in Florida and it still just doesn't set well with me.I still can't believe the Democrats are not for counting every vote...I remember 2000,what happened to my party?

Here's Biden's famous op-ed in WaPo from 2006...no doubt it' s been tweaked a few times...but I always wondered how a crackpot stew of ideas like this could be implemented...by a magic wand?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/23/AR2006082301419.html

Okay Gordo, we'll make that happen! You get the Batmobile and I'll make sure to bring the magic rope and we'll have Hillary on top of the ticket in no time!!

In just release documents, it's been found that Barack Obama's real name is Peter Parker. Known for wearing tight clothing and doing whatever a spider can, Barack "Spiderman" Obama is spinning a web of lies when it comes to being both human and a superhero.

Are superheroes eligible to run for the presidency? If not, Hillary must be put in as the Democratic nominee before PUMA is captured by this "Peter Parker".

Gordo,

CNN has been airing the "Barack Obama Revealed" documentary all day. All those questions you have are answered. Look it up, it''s the book (or on TV).

Hey Dex,

Glad you showed up. It's been a real cesspool out on the trail tonight....

Maybe I saw Bayh on a bad day, but when you have the entire audience (all 15 of us) looking at their watches 30 minutes into an economic policy speech which included the words "middle class" at least twice every minute, it didn't exactly inspire confidence. And I was really interested in backing the guy. Great resume, but he lost me that day...

Just to set the mood for the evening, how about a little Ella Fitzgerald with the Chick Webb Orchestra performing "Wacky Dust"....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=394BgNIQ2_M&NR=1

Rezdog--------------

That's for the chump crowd. They'll buy anything. SoetorObama's "hidden" past is still hidden.

It is indeed a sad day for us AA´s in the US.
Stephanie Tubbs was one of the best..Eventhough she was not from our state, she was dignified and fought the good fight.
I wasn´t aware she was gravely ill.

Can´t get a hold of moms and dad and it is making me even ore miserable. Anyone an update on Fla and storm Fay? Please ...let me know.
Watching the news, but can´t get any real clear updates. How is Boca Raton doing?

Yesterday, BO used the word: "HE" three times in a speech, with regards to the Veep making it clear for everyone that the veep will be: a MALE. Thank You God!

Hey man. .Look it up! . . Transcript's available at CNN. rofl

Champ doesn't believe that shit does he? Oh, you said Chump. My bad. rofl Wait a minute.. .hmmm... . maybe

Jason...

If it gives you any comfort, the only thing I've heard on the blog is Lard saying that Fay wasn't the storm they feared, but that she was lingering. I hope you hear from your parents very soon. Please keep us updated.

Picking HRC would demonstrate a lot of things about Obama:

1. He is bucking the conventional wisdom that says he can't do it.

2. He is listening to the 18 million voters instead of the pundits and the political insiders.

3. He is not simply selecting a "yes man [or woman]" or a buddy.

4. He is acting consistent with the notion in Team of Rivals that this Country's problems (thanks to Bush-Cheney) are going to require our strongest leaders.

Plus, I think Bill Clinton would be great out on the stump talking with voters even if he has some run-ins with the media. And despite the potential for drama, having one of our most intelligent former Presidents in close quarters can easily be turned into a positive.

And when the GOP says - hey look at this another example that Obama is just a regular old pol and this is politics as usual instead of a real change - we can say - Let me introduce the world to the first black US President and the first female US Vice President.

After 8 years of Bush and the failed policies of the Republican Party - who do you think that super majority of voters who are looking for change are going to vote for?

Warren - excellent! thank you for enumerating the benefits of Hillary as veep. You said it all, I think.
The only problem is that I don't think he will be those first four. What it boils down to is that I don't think he is in charge - he himself might be capable of being 1-4, but the choice isn't his, I'm very much afraid.

Keep hope alive boo!

And if not, I still think Biden can be effective is bringing the fight to McCain.

We need a Democrat in the White House or the GOP is going to start WWIII

Well, Spike, I do believe Mr. Crawford is on top of the reason why Wesley Kanne Clark was dumped off the veep list, and I believe Obama was wrong , wrong WRONG for doing so.
Let's assume for a moment that Obama decides against Bayh because he wants a pit bull instead, for full speed ahead attacks on McInsane. OK, that now gives the nod to Biden, when Clark is a vicious critic of Bush and his poodle , McInsane. Clark and Biden can both attack, we all know that, but Clark is so much more believable, and a no-holds-barred , honest guy.
Another big mistake by Obama, moving away from Clark.
As push come to shove, HRC's name returns to the pool of names for consideration for Vice President. JMHO, but this is ridiculous. I believe Obama wants to move away from Hillary , far, far away. Ya know, I agree with a lot of my fellow TrailMixers in that HRC as veep would clinch the election for Obama, but i think he would rather risk losing what is shaping up as a close race than be saddled with Hillary Clinton.
After all the words, I still think Obama will ask Biden and McInsane and Romney will team up. In case you missed the early debates, Romney is all business and appealing to a wide enough cross-section to just maybe popularize the old coot enough to ensure a Bush Third Term.

...and don't people realize that McCain sided with Bush on over 90 % of critical issues, and was a 100% supporter and cheerleader of the war in Iraq, all the funding, and he wants to CONTINUE to bankrupt the USA by pouring our US Treasury into that rathole of Iraq...LET THE IRAQIS govern themselves.
It's past time to cut and run out of Iraq. Many of you folks don't agree with that, but you don't want McCain's ideal of 100 more years of war there, either.
I am not even a little hopeful that Obama will quickly end the war in Iraq, and we know Obama has committed his potential presidency to charging hell-bent-for-leather into Afghanistan, to try to usurp the Taliban and put a little pressure on OBL...maybe.
Of course I think we should get the hell out of Afghanistan, too; this puts me at odds with Obama, but even at that, he's about 180 degrees of separation from the horrible, stupid, 4th from last at Annapolis, 5-time or more plane crashing , (at least 4 crashes in training) LOSER that McCain is!

Interesting piece by Pat B. on the Cold War II:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/uc/20080819/cm_uc_crpbux/op_337089;_ylt=ApE10EOElOSaG8480_VtFXQ__8QF

Of course I think we should get the hell out of Afghanistan, too; this puts me at odds with Obama, but even at that, he's about 180 degrees of separation from the horrible, stupid, 4th from last at Annapolis, 5-time or more plane crashing , (at least 4 crashes in training) LOSER that McCain is!

---Dex

Amen, SQUARED

Here's my perfect Obama commercial against McCain...

Scenes of "Hoovervilles" with the narrator saying: John McCain was born in the Great Depression

Now scenes of struggling Americans, "now his disastrous Bush/McCain economic policies threaten to plunge us into the depths of economic disaster."

Cut to Phil Graham calling Americans whiners.

"Housing marketing crashing, prices rising. We can't afford John McCain and his same old policies"

I, for one, am happy about Obama's slide in the polls.

America likes an underdog. I think Obama has a better chance of winning a perceived uphill battle to win the White House instead of dealing with the perception that it is being served up on a platter.

(Especially since in reality - it actually is going to be an uphill battle for Obama to win...)

Also - the GOP talking point that Obama is losing because he is not up in the polls by double digits should be ignored. All recent Presidential races have been close because there are a lot of Republicans in this country and - in general - Republican voters are far more loyal than Democrats. (See Bush's 2nd term)

This is going to be a knock-down-drag-out fight just like every Presidential election and there will be a lot of nonsense and sideshows in the coming months. But the keys for Obama are focusing on the actual issues, uniting the Democrats and bringing in [more] new voters.

Buenas noches.

this is mine:

http://doctore.blog.is/users/b4/doctore/img/bush-mccain-hug.jpg

This is going to be a knock-down-drag-out fight just like every Presidential election and there will be a lot of nonsense and sideshows in the coming months.

---warren

This is why i dont understand all the rejection and reaction to GORDO's posts......perhaps he is a clintonista, perhaps he's a gop agent, he could be most anything, just like anyone else on here......but he is pointing out some basic truths about how the gop are going to strike out at Obama......If gordo is from sc, as I gather from his saying James Clyburn is his rep. then he, like I, have seen republicans up close and personal......60 years of them for me.........they dont need "facts" nor "truth" ........all they need is the merest hint of "what to think". (witness swiftboaters for truth) I have republican friends aplenty and they are already saying as if it is God's own truth many of the things Gordo is pointing out here......Is Gordo a cassandra? He could well be..........not hard to imagine........but the fight against Obama is going to be a long hard slog and democrats had better prepare for it......
I happen to think that Obama and Hillary are in some kind of accord about the path to travel at the convention and until November.......and I believe that the things Gordo is posting are true harbingers of the attacks to come.......and that they WILL come. Like an avalanche of slime......purple heart band-aids......Flip Flops......Dean Screams.........Dukakis Tank photos......Everything and Anything of which republicans with their Karl Rove/Lee Atwater (another SC guy) mindsets are able to conceive as being the path towards defeating the democrats in November.......So.....Semper Paratus, democrats....and maybe listen to the cassandra this time around......

All of you who are worried that the Clintons are planning a coo to take over the Dem convention can rest easy.

The Clinton staff is creating a 40 member "whip team" at the Denver convention
to ensure her supporters don't embarrass Obama with anti-Obama
demonstrations. . .

http://www.politico.com/blogs/thecrypt/0808/Clinton_Creates_Whip_Team_to_Quell_AntiObama_Protests.html

Stupid Olympics!!! I've got to get some sleep one of these days, nights, whatever...Night all...

Johnny got his gun...

Article re: McCain the War President:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jamie-rubin/ithe-politics-of-wari-mcc_b_120139.html

While Cassandra foresaw the destruction of Troy (she warned the Trojans about the Trojan Horse, the death of Agamemnon, and her own demise), she was unable to do anything to forestall these tragedies. Her family believed she was mad, and according to some versions, kept her locked up. In versions where she was incarcerated, this was typically portrayed as driving her truly insane, although in versions where she was not, she is usually viewed as remaining simply misunderstood.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Got_His_Gun

http://www.charleston.net/news/2008/aug/20/pawpers51396/

Mills' story is one that shelter officials are hearing more often these days as pet owners are forced to make difficult choices because of the economy. Some surrender their animals after losing a job or home. Others cut costs by moving in with a relative who doesn't want the animal around.

"It's increased a great deal. I'm sure all the shelters are feeling it," said J.J. Messervy, president of the Francis R. Willis Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals in Summerville. Up to five people per week surrender an animal at the Dorchester Countyshelter because of the cost of caring for it. That is a six-fold increase over last year in the number of pets given up for economic reasons, he said.

the amazing chair:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlXh8RvvcuI&eurl=http://www.crooksandliars.com/

Blogs are good for every one where we get lots of information for any topics nice job keep it up !!!
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