Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

First?
Well It is 12: 45 here and I am having lunch.

Two Ciabatta´s with tunafish salad en slices of tomato! Yummie.....

"Two Ciabatta´s with tunafish salad en slices of tomato! Yummie....."

You'd think a tuna sandwich wouldn't sound appetizing this early, but it does!

Jason -- don't know if you saw my Madonna answer/question -- tell me about her Denver situation. Was she invited to sing? (Aretha will always reign in my house, though...ha)

Mmmmm ...tuna and tomato on ciabatta! Lovely even at this hour.

Good morning Jason and Patsi! Anyone else up and around today?

good morning gang.....

ssshhhhh....... don't tell anyone.....

I had to google ciabatta.....

sturg..... was that Middle English you were speaking last night?.....

Boop,

"Harborwoman - next thing ya know, he'll try saying it was a typo - sure it was. slol"

Of course it was--they should really move the 'b' a little farther away from the 'p' key.

Actually, I saw it a few minutes after I made it, but decided to leave it--I was truly proud of having made such a neat Freudian slip so early in the day. Moi?

Patsi,

I understand it's to be an altered version of 'Don't Cry for me...'

renee.....only one little snatch of the lord's prayer in old english..............

Early morning scanning: Be prepared:

Team Obama reveals it raised $52 million for the month of June

And Jesse Jackson used the real "N"" word in his open mic gaffe- apparenlty TV Newser was provided the tape already saw Al Sharpton on CBS discussing

However, did notice this item:

Study shows wide gaps in US Standards of Living.

http://www.mgwashington.com/index.php/news/article/study-documents-wide-gaps-standards-of-living-in-us/1337/

Looks like CT is #1 & we get to live at least 30 years longer than those in last place Mississippi.

Florida ranks 24 in well being & 10th in longest life expectancy.

RR,

Ciabatta, I did, too.

Jason, describe the bread for us. Is it like pita? Is it an herb bread? It does sound most interesting the way you are having it. What beverage is best with it?

Coreen,

Am I right in thinking he used in referring to the constituents, not the candidate?

Yeah, but it feels like a lot longer if you're not living amongst the landed gentry.

The Judiciary Committee will hold a hearing on the president's abuses of power -- perhaps as soon as next week. Expert witnesses will be called. Kucinich says that a foreign official -- who he has not named -- is willing to testify regarding presidential wrongdoing. And Judiciary Committee chair John Conyers, the veteran Michigan Democrat who actually believes in presidential accountability but has had a hard time getting other top Democrats to embrace that belief, suggests that the hearing will review evidence of "all the (Bush administration actions) that constitute an imperial presidency." http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20080717/cm_thenation/1337249

jamie - We need a list of topics between now & Craig's return next week. Let the record show a discussion of the nuances of ciabatta bread...or maybe just list it as Jason's lunch.

Good morning all
Jason please give us the lowdown on Madonna and Denver? I don't even like Tuna but i'm interested in the bread(ciabatta)?

Ciabatta

Sounds like the type of bread that would be impossible to bake at home. Like it would need a monstrous brick oven. My French breads are always disappointing for that lack. But my traditional American breads are fantastic.

As if high ticket prices to keep us grounded aren't enough of a safety measure...

"Developed in New Hampshire by defense contractor, BAE Systems, the cross country passenger jets are now equipped with a laser deterrent system mounted on the plane's belly. It can identify and misdirect an incoming missile. It's being tested for Homeland Security."

http://wbztv.com/local/airplane.safety.boston.2.772779.html

"Kucinich says that a foreign official -- who he has not named -- is willing to testify regarding presidential wrongdoing."

how about a guess-who-the-foreign-official-will-be contest? or as a topic of discussion? which foreign official was screwed most by shrub and would like to return the favor? Tony Blair?

Flatus,

Here's the Newser link. Yes, it appears that Jesse was referring to constituents.

http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/fnc/breaking_what_else_jesse_jackson_said_on_that_fnc_tape_89392.asp

The point: Is this what will be focused on today by the msm.

Oh another important issue (all 3 network anchors will be traveling with Obama on his trip)

Good morning all,

Patsi
Thanks, I found the baskin & robbins..

Thanks, Coreen. That context is really important and puts Jesse in a much better light.

Fæder ure þu þe eart on heofonum, Father ours, thou that art in heaven,
[2] Si þin nama gehalgod. Be thy name hallowed.
[3] To becume þin rice, Come thy rich(kingdom),
[4] gewurþe ðin willa, on eorðan swa swa on heofonum. Worth(manifest) thy will, on earth also as in heaven.
[5] Urne gedæghwamlican hlaf syle us todæg, Our daily loaf sell(give) us today,
[6] and forgyf us ure gyltas, swa swa we forgyfað urum gyltendum. and forgive us our guilts as also we forgive our guilty(lit. guiltants).
[7] And ne gelæd þu us on costnunge, ac alys us of yfele. Soþlice. And 'ne lead'(lead not) thou us in temptation, ac(but) loose(release) us of evil. Soothly.

Okay, time to slather on the sunblock and do the yard.

Saturday is anniversary of women's rights.
Very good article . Hillary will speak

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/07/17/womens-rights-are-human-rights/

I know I rarely comment but I check in every day and had to express how much I've missed Craig's posts this week!

The Denver Group just put out another great ad-
http://thedenvergroup.blogspot.com/2008/07/latest-ad-from-denver-group.html

Keep the Democratic Party democratic!

The Lord's Prayer, Sturge?

Veeps from opposing party?

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=5390306&page=1

corey........si......in old english......

those "P" looking characters are pronounced "th"

Interesting article on possibility of Obama/McCain tie on Electoral college votes.

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=5386278&page=1

Oldseahag,
Yes I for one would like to see Hillarys name placed in nomination at roll call. This Denver group just may cause enough of a stir up to make it a possibility.

julie

Panks, Sturge for the explanation! LOL!

pu eart villkommen...........

ar ar

mornin' all.

Quick checkin before heading up the road.

Ahhh, Ciabatta bread - delicious. I'd say it's a denser, chewier, flatter Italian version of french bread and with a slightly less crisp crust. It may just be the best white bread for making sandwiches for adults. Panera Bread features a couple of its sandwiches on ciabatta. Flatus, the ovens they make it in are very cool - they have a steam apparatus that blows the doors open a little every so often as it blows steam into the oven. I'm told by the folks who bake it that the steam is the deal that is the secret to making French and Italian bread. Sheila probably has an opinion.

Old english sturg? Even when I was taking the damned old and middle english course I hated anything before Chaucer. Hell, I had trouble enough with the americanized version of english that we spoke in the south.

Shit (sorry). Riccardo Ricco tested positive for EPO. Exactly what the hell are these guys thinking? They use banned substances to increase their performance so they can win stages in the TDF, and then get caught when they do - as if that hasn't happened before.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/sports/AP-CYC-Tour-de-France.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

Mixed jobless rate report.

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/business/business-usa-economy-jobless.html

Crude fell yesterday for the 2nd day in a row. J.P.Morgan earnings off 53%. Be interesting to see what drives the market today.

For you Yankees fans, You can own a piece of Yankee stadium.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=al17jChS314M&refer=home

Jack

Pogo

Wanna bet that crude oil goes down from now to election day?

Jack

Jack, no way I'd cover that bet. Gotta go - later.

i had something to say, but i forgot it.
morning folks, anyway.

Iran Pours Cash Into Afghanistan, Seeking Leverage Against U.S.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aNaIqaODpvrU&refer=home

Jack

Hey everyone,
sorry for responding so late...But I am in and out of meetings.

The ciabatta is an Italain bread. Please check "wikipedia" or google for the bread. It is big and yummie, and very popular here in Holland. With tuna fish it is amazing. I had two for lunch and tomorrow I´ll have the same.
I always drink fresh dutch orange juice with it, with a slice of lemon. To make it extra fresh.

Patsi,
Madonna declined to perform her monstrous 4 minutes song at the convention. I am a hugh Madonna fan, and am very glad she declined. I also hear that she is a HRC supporter due to her ties with the Clinton foundation and her malawi effort.

Running again, check y´all later

Fun fact for the day

" Birds, like people, have accents"

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/44553.html

Jack

I went ahead and googled ciabatta bread, even though I was sure that 1. I'd seen it on FoodTV's Everyday Italian, and 2. I'd seen it at some fast food place -- and as wiki told me, sure enough, Jack in the Box has it! (Or some semblance...haven't actually tried it...)

hey patsi,

can I get a hold of you privately? got a dummy email or something to that effect?

OMG, Jack -- now you'll have me listening for WV, Mississippi and Boston when the birds are at the feeder. I'm already pretty sure that the Bluejays who yell at me for more peanuts are the Bronx contingent.

Champ -- my email is already "out there" -- just email me at balecox at aol dot com....

speaking of ill winds.

Twisters Hit Insurers With Worst Profit Dip Since '02

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601213&sid=aJNkGij_ms2Y&refer=home

Jack

Word.

Don't know when I'll get around to it; could be today, next week, or never, but I'll identify meself as 'champ'. Thanks.

Just poured myself a tall cool glass of Kool-aid...can I get anyone else a glass?

Jack in the Box offers several versions of ciabatta sandwiches on their menu.

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

sorry Patsi you were writing and posting when I was.

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

More non political stuff

Genetic Variation May Raise AIDS Infection Risk in Africans

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601124&sid=abWG_9voJtbI&refer=home

Jack

"Just poured myself a tall cool glass of Kool-aid...can I get anyone else a glass?"

Ha -- Ub, I think we're on a lemon milk shake kick...

I refuse to consume 'fashion foods' (copyright me) such as asiago cheese, chilean sea bass, and ciabatta bread. You could throw green tea in the mix, but I was drinking it before the fad.

you mean green tea was grandfathered in?

Well... this Kool-aid is really good : )

It's so refreshing.....I'll offer another time....sometime milkshakes can make a person thirsty

Doots -- I haven't tried the sandwiches at Jack in the Box, doots -- have you had one? Just wondering if the bread was decent.

I'm pissed at Jack in the Box though....some time back they made a big deal out of supposedly offering health care to their employees...so I asked the young woman at the drive-through....she said not a chance.

Doc from Cannery Row finally found someone to make him a beer milk shake on sweet Thursday.........he said it was awful and poured it out............

Fast food can kill you....beware Remember when that happened at Jack-in the box ?

Well... this Kool-aid is really good : )

It's so refreshing.....I'll offer another time....sometime milkshakes can make a person thirsty

Posted by: unlikely_burrito | July 17, 2008 10:03 AM

_insert racist joke here_

"Thailand and Cambodia have deployed more troops near an ancient temple in a disputed border region,"

"The confrontation comes after Unesco, the UN's cultural body, declared the 11th century temple a World Heritage site last week."

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia-pacific/2008/07/200871751646788665.html

Human be'uns seems all they can do is squabble and fight.
Jack

Did someone say Milkshake???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZ-FAV9fBII

Man: The Stupid Animal.

I have something for everyone today...if you don't want any Kool aid....how about a screen saver?

http://i36.tinypic.com/5485k6.gif

Jack in the box, Kangaroo on ciabatta bread.

Jack

champ - I do not under stand your post?

_insert racist joke here_ <-----???? I don't get it

they serve Kangaroo in Australia

A bit bored this morning, UB?

Jack

Doots -- I haven't tried the sandwiches at Jack in the Box, doots -- have you had one? Just wondering if the bread was decent.

I have not but my wife likes them ok her taste is much more refined than mine.

I can't imagine any fast food joint offering any store employees health insurance. I heard a regional manager from McDonald's say that one benefit that the fast food industries provided the US was that it took the "hard-core unemployable" and gave them work.

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

....how about a screen saver?

http://i36.tinypic.com/5485k6.gif

HA! Good pic....

yep, just drinking coffee, getting ready to bike to work....thought I'd peek in and see the food talk

Pasti - that is from some lady's blog.....Can't remember her blog title....she's pretty outspoken, kinda funny

they serve Kangaroo in Australia

They also ground a bunch of it up and sold it to Jackinthebox. That was a long time ago when my sister was working there. In between her first and second child. Both of them are grown up with children of their own.
That is all I remember about the place, other than they had really bad food.
Jack

"can't imagine any fast food joint offering any store employees health insurance. "

I couldn't either -- that's why I was so stunned when I heard that report. I remember foolishly telling someone that if the Jack did this, I'd never buy anything but the Ultimate Cheeseburger again...no Big Macs for me!

And of course, it was yet another case of "if it sounds too good to be true..."

roofing, moving, and other types of manual labor are for the real 'hard-core unemployables'. They type of people even McDonald's wouldn't hire. Ex-convicts and such.

eeww.....a few years back they had a contest to name Kangaroo meat...I cant remember the winner.....but it was in line with how we call cow - beef - they call Kangaroo - something

They didn't want to freak out tourists

what flavor kool-aid

they serve Kangaroo in Australia

I photographed a wedding on a ranch way out in far West Texas about 10 or 12 years ago and the bride was from Australia. She was a college student at Sul Ross University studying birds I think. We spent the day together with the wedding party and I asked someone what the little girl bride had done for a living in Australia to get her money for school. The answer? She had worked as a Kangaroo skinner.

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

lol

News you will never hear on cable

"Saudi king opens inter-faith summit "

"What is historic about this is that it is organised by the king of Saudi Arabia,'' he said.

"To hear the king of Saudi Arabia talk about tolerance, moderation and co-operation between the religions to address contemporary challenges is quite something."

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2008/07/2008716155745164721.html

NelsonDecker - any flavor you want....it's an inclusive Kool - aid stand. : )

long ago, one summer my mother let my kids have their fill of grape koolaid...... they got sick .....i have stayed away from the stuff every since.
ugh

My daughter used to sneak in the pantry and eat it raw....

kids are funny....have a great day!

"roofing, moving, and other types of manual labor are for the real 'hard-core unemployables'. They type of people even McDonald's wouldn't hire. Ex-convicts and such."

Yep, the crazies and drunks that can't work anywhere else. That is why Mexican immigrants have taken over the roofing business. They are better quality workers.

Jack

i think i missed it before -duh- what is a PUMA?
last time i saw it there was talk about cats?

Party Unity My Ass

Jack

PUMA

People
Undermining
Messianic
Assumption

lol good one champ

ah, i see.
sorry brainiac, i don't think they are loosers.
as a matter of fact..

Or you could say "PUMFA"

People
Using
Marijuana
Again

LOL

Have you noticed that the only people talking about the election this morning are the Obama supporters and all they are here for is to troll.

Jack

and, as far as polls go, what's up with that?
shouldn't the dem nominee be kicking ass by now?

McCain makes 4th stop in Michigan in just over a week.

http://www.woodtv.com/global/story.asp?s=8690715

what election, i'm here for the koolaid!

Yep, the crazies and drunks that can't work anywhere else. That is why Mexican immigrants have taken over the roofing business. They are better quality workers.

Jack

I don't disagree just repeating what that guy said. I live in an area where there is a lot of hail storms in the spring and in the 20 years I have lived here I have had my roof replaced 7 times. I will only hire Mexicans to do the work because of the quality of their work.

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

That is a pretty racist line of thought. You only hire people based on the color of their skin or national origin?

not at all champ quality of their work learn to read

I said this, "I will only hire Mexicans to do the work because of the quality of their work."

¡yo soy Horsedooty

Oh those pesky polls. Rasmussen today---its a tie.

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Thursday shows Barack Obama attracting 44% of the vote while John McCain earns 42%.

When "leaners" are included, it’s Obama 46% and McCain 46%

Barenaked Ladies singer to fight cocaine charge:

Kinda makes me wonder what he'd REALLY DO if he had a million dollars. LOL!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080717/people_nm/barenaked_dc;_ylt=Akj.FqnQ6B_2xW2ZWSHwMaJxFb8C

Oh those pesky polls. Rasmussen today---its a tie.

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Thursday shows Barack Obama attracting 44% of the vote while John McCain earns 42%.

When "leaners" are included, it’s Obama 46% and McCain 46%

Posted by: Coreen | July 17, 2008 11:03 AM

I am very serious now...if thes epolls are correct, BO should be worrying himself to death!
This is not good. (I mean for him)

Liberals that don't even realize how racist they are really crack me up. At least I can admit it.

I always wondered exactly who the "Liberals" were that types like Hannity and Coulter vilify. After participating on this blog, I know.

I'll give you one thing, "Horse Shit" is an apt moniker.

champ said, "Liberals that don't even realize how racist they are really crack me up. At least I can admit it.

I always wondered exactly who the "Liberals" were that types like Hannity and Coulter vilify. After participating on this blog, I know.

I'll give you one thing, "Horse Shit" is an apt moniker."

I can see you are only here to argue and trash most everyone here so I have no more time for you. Chump!

check please!

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

zing!

Oh, and I wasn't trashing "most everyone" on this blog. Just you.

champ
Beware of your own ignorance

Jack

"She had worked as a Kangaroo skinner."

Damn!

"no role call vote, you know the losers. "

Roll call. Roll call. Roll call.

Unless you are role playing....

I'm well aware of it, Jack. That was my point.

who skinned kangaroos?

It does not pay to sleep in. By the time you get here you want to join in on at least 20 messages.

Blue, "We need a list of topics between now & Craig's return next week" We might consider those districts in the report. I know I was stunned by the 20th California being on the bottom of the list and really wanted to understand why. It's a bit serious for summer but maybe everyone could take whichever district is familiar from the bottom of the stack and explain it to the rest of us.

Sturgeone - Enjoy middle English. Old English is beyond me though I'm heard some interesting recordings on BBC programs. Also among favorite books: The Sea of Cortez. The true stories about Doc are almost as good as the semi fictional ones in Cannery Row.

Coreen/Jason - A 2% - 4% lead in the national translates to a comfortable win in the Electoral. An 8% lead is a landslide. There has been some weakening in the Obama numbers but he has a solid Electoral college majority right now.

"you're a bunch of losers! "

Oh God...keep it up fruitloop.

i think the whole dem conv is a farce.
crap, howard dean should have just come out two years ago and said "we're gonna give it bho"
and if bho keeps flopping like a fish the dnc will get exactly what it deserves...president john mccain.

Doots

Champ may not be aware of the segregation that naturally occurrs for most recent Mexican immigrants. They don't arrive with any usable skill and must be trained. They don't speak English so gravitate to crews of fellow nationals where they are more comfortable. Since on average they are very smart and ambitious(the dumb, lazy ones stay home) they learn very quickly.
Then like Pancho (my friend and coworker for several years) they will start looking for side jobs and will have assembled their own crew. They have their own networks and use them. All of this makes them different from the typical anglo crew.

Jack

"who skinned kangaroos?"

Nelson,
the redheaded bride of about 24 was the kangaroo skinner back in Australia.

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

what did I tell you just here to troll

don't get me started :(
i just droped by for a drink and casual conversation, nice way to spend this weekend-eve.

Quote of the Day

"As Democrats, we have become so afraid of losing this election that we’re afraid to hold Barack Obama accountable for changing directions or criticize him at all. The campaign has thus become a disturbing cult of personality, and a minefield of booby traps for black leaders, old white guys, anyone who strays off message and now any voice of satire or wit. With luck, this [New Yorker] cover will finally start a discussion about the dangers of unequivocal support for one person, and the abdication of principles in the face of fear of losing votes."

-- Rich Harris,
New York Times, Letter to the Editor

Kiddy pool must be closed today

Here are the current Real Clear Electoral College figures

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/

"Kiddy pool must be closed today"

Looks like it.

I think the most interesting thing I've read today was King Abdullah pushing for religious tolerance.

Jack

Just because you have a Mexican friend does not make either you an expert on all Mexicans and the work habits of them, Jack.

I have plenty of exposure to the Mexican community, and there are all types. I've worked with them extensively, does that make me an expert on all things Mexican. I'll answer that for you- No.

Just like Horse Crap's statement that implied the quality of ALL Mexicans work is consistent. Nonsense.

Jamie

on that map, look how few states are in the solid camp. This election could easily turn on a couple of little things occurring late in the campaign.

Jack

vive la PUMA

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/07/16/flashback-mccain-admits-hes-dumber-than-bush/

McCain admits to being dumber than Bush. YIKES!

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

so Chump are you a roofer? one of those criminal types that could not qualify for a job at Mickey D's? Are you one of the ones who the Mexican roofers took you job?

I have had Anglos roof my house before and I can tell you that it was done once to the satisfaction of the insurance company paid to have it done again. I found a company that employed Mexicans and they did a great job. I chose to continue to give them my business. If that makes me a racist then you need a new dictionary.

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

Jack

An election can always turn on a dime with some major negative event. We are in the summer doldrums and not likely to see much change unless something comes up on the foreign trip by Obama. Barring that people won't really wake up much before the end of September.

I just posted it as a counter to the totally meaningless national numbers.

BTW, this trip is really making me grit my teeth. I'm trying to stay reasonably objective about the prospective Democratic nominee, but this is another of those "hubris just for show" activities. If he really cared, he would have done it with a great deal more anonymity more than a year ago. Now it is too much like a royal tour of the provinces.

not enough coffee today

I said "I have had Anglos roof my house before and I can tell you that it was done once to the satisfaction of the insurance company paid to have it done again."

I meant to say, "I have had Anglos roof my house before and I can tell you that once it was done to the satisfaction of the insurance company and two other times it was not and the insurance company paid to have it done again." It was their crew.

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

Dooty,

Do you know any good chimney sweeps in Fort Worth?

Sorry Bear,

I can not recommend any. I don't use my fire place.

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

Jamie

True, as I said yesterday wake me up in september.

I did a quick look at Pollstrer's state by state averages

In state after state both candidates are polling in the low 40's there are a lot of undecided up for grabs.

Jack

well I'm enjoying some excellent Crystal Lite raspberry lemonade....

champ.... I gotta stick up for Dooty here.... if simply saying one prefers someone's work and they just happen to be of a certain nationality makes them a racist than that's going to make a lot of us racists...... in my neck of the woods the predominate players are French Canadian and Finnish..... my hubby and I are of the first persuasion.... but prefer to hire the latter for any work on our home as they have excelled in the home building trades..... but everyone concerned is white..... so I guess that gets us off the hook for being "racists"......

Patsi..... and speaking of the New Yawker cover..... thanks for the heads up on the John Stewart show..... we watched the rerun last night at 8pm..... watching John make fun of the media's over the top trashing of the magazine was tooooo funny..... especially loved the Wolf Blitzer bit......

Obama doesn't control the media, but he takes full advantage of the love affair. I just question his judgement. Of course it is pretty much my same complaint with him that has never changed. He comes out of Illinois having done nothing but run for office without having done much of anything and then immediately starts running for President without ever doing much of anything.

I will give him lots of props for being brilliant, attractive, with seemingly great goals and ideals, but there is simply too much of the "young man in a hurry" about him. I've seen too many flame outs of the type to trust him.completely.

I Love Al Gore!!!!

I know what Jesus would do here...I'm curious what the rest of you would do...

http://blogs.moneycentral.msn.com/smartspending/archive/2008/07/16/why-i-gave-a-guy-a-dollar.aspx

Bear -
Sometimes I give, sometimes I don't.

"McCain admits to being dumber than Bush. YIKES"

Ha! I love Crooks & Liars, doots....and hadn't bookmarked it on this new computer yet...thanks!

Has Al Gore said "no" to possible VP for Obama?

Obama reminds me of the president of a company I used to work for. He was young and was selected for the job based on connections and did not have executive experience. He gave good speeches that sounded great with rosy visions of an incredible future.

After taking the helm, tons of money was wasted on new paradigms, ... after a year or two income was down, profits were down, morale was down...

Turns out they should have kept the old guy that had grown the company and increased profits year after year.

While some may say that my example sounds like Bush, I don't necessarily disagree. As I see it Obama's & Bushs political philosphy are different, but I see many similarities between the two. One glaring difference, Bush can be funny and the butt of jokes. Obama he ain't funny, but he does have big ears, can I say that?

Obama doesn't control the media, but he takes full advantage of the love affair

Jamie, if the media has a love affair for Obama, what do you call their feelings for McCain. At this point, McCain could walk out onto a stage, drop his pants and take a dump, then walk off the stage and they will rave that he's a maverick for not use a real toilet...he was pooping outside the lines...lol

All I know is that if Hillary Clinton or Obama said Czechoslovakia 4 times in the last 2 weeks, they'd be getting the medias Dr. Jellyfinger treatment, minus the jelly.

"If he really cared, he would have done it with a great deal more anonymity more than a year ago. Now it is too much like a royal tour of the provinces."

I agree jamie -- this is orchestrated for American television -- crowds of adoring international fans to reinforce the O-myth of Everlasting Peace and Prosperity for one and all.

Smart politics is very rarely the same as good government.. My opinion of Sen Obama is not likely to change until there is a VP followed by cabinet appointments. Let's see how well he does with his first choices.

Obama he ain't funny, but he does have big ears, can I say that?

Posted by: Bowmanc

Bowman, you're a face-ist.

A year ago Obama had no idea he would be in the position he is in now....So, I do not think timing has any direct relevance to Obama's "caring or not caring"

"Obama he ain't funny, but he does have big ears, can I say that?"

Sorry Bow, you don't get to say that. It's racist.

Bear,

I'm not voting for McCain. I respect him and his accomplishments, but he is hardly the brightest bulb on the planet, and has had a basically average political career. Not bad, just not all that impressive.

He got a rotten deal back in 2000 when he would have been a respectable choice and then because of ambition cuddled up to the Bush cabal and religious right even after what they did to him.

Now, he still has some good speaking points, but just doesn't come across as Presidential material at a time when our country has such severe problems, plus he is still kowtowing to the fundies.

9/11

I have been called two-faced before but never a
face-ist. Fellow face-ists unite.

"If he really cared, he would have done it with a great deal more anonymity more than a year ago. Now it is too much like a royal tour of the provinces."

I agree jamie -- this is orchestrated for American television -- crowds of adoring international fans to reinforce the O-myth of Everlasting Peace and Prosperity for one and all.

here, here

UB

A year ago, Sen. Obama had been in the Senate since 2005. For those two years he had been voting on issues relating to the War in Iraq, most of those votes in favor of authorizing more money for the activities. His voting record identical on foreign issues identical to the party line.

There were several codel trips he might have taken to both Europe and the Middle East to increase his knowledge and inform his votes and committee activites. He did none of that. Between January of 2005 and yesterday, he was too busy running for President.to do his job.

This seems to be the story of all the elected positions he has held ... too busy trying to get up the next rung of the ladder to actually work at what he was elected to do.

Sorry Patsi, 9/11 beat you to the punch.

Did Obama finally quit smoking? I'd like his take on the companies that have forbidden their employees from smoking even when they are at home on their own time.

Sorry, probably can't ask about that either.

What kind of car does he own?

Bowman,

What do you mean by "car"?

Yep, BO FOTO OP. I just wonder what the reaction to his visit will be by the locals? That New Yorker cover might look like something other than satire if it looks like he has non-American Muslim support.

(Someone should explain to them that he is not a Muslim but it was too hard for the artist at the New Yorker to draw an atheist.)

OK, I'll be off somewhere bitterly clinging to religion.

4 wheels, engine, transmission, exterior sheet metal, interior seats... the usual.

I swear 9/11 it wasn't a trick question.

Actually 9/11 it was a trick question. The answer was a Chrysler New Yorker......

Didn't you mean a Christ-ler Jew Yorker...

"If he really cared, he would have done it with a great deal more anonymity more than a year ago. Now it is too much like a royal tour of the provinces."

You know, with some of you people Obama can never win. If he had gone to Iraq and on this trip last year you would have said “look at him; he thinks he’s going to win the primaries when we know Hillary is going to win”. Bet ya.

9/11 you make me laugh. And that's not funny. No fair.

"Bowman, you're a face-ist."

9/11 -- Priceless!

"Sorry Patsi, 9/11 beat you to the punch. "

Ha! Bow -- and his was the knock out punch! Mine was just a lame tap!

What do you mean, Obama can't win. Hasn't he put together his transition team yet? I keep reading that it's over, done.

Karolenna,

Honestly... what I would really like him to do is get some rest, restore, reflect and have the only camera near to him be the one on his cellphone.

Between having an extended primary campaign (a necessity due to real competition) and having an election which began in 2007 and now continues in its intensity over the summer (no Labor Day launches)...

This election is a major campaign in the ass not only for any prospective leader of the U.S. but for all of us, too.

You betcha

Except there is nothing to bet is there?
Because your man didn't do it.

Had the opportunity

Was given a great little committee to burnish his foreign policy credentials. But he never held a meeting, didn't even use it.
Doesn't say a lot for him does it.

Jack

So while it is Thursday and Craigbert are off to the higher ground of living...

Anyone have any plans of their own?

"Karolenna wins the "Hitting The Nail On The Head" award for the day! Brava!"

B-bomb said the same thing when Karo was throwing death wishes at both Clintons .

Patsi, please no jokes about people that are self-locomotively challanged. It ain't right.

9/11 Sam & I are off to Greene County NYS to the Grey Fox Bluegrass festival. Got to satisfy the hillbilly in my soul.

Bowman,

Well, you have a wonderful time -- wish I was there.

Jewish voters and Obama

"Liberal media outlets are anxious to deny that Barack Obama has a problem with support from Jewish voters. Marc Ambinder of The Atlantic derisively employed the term "Jewish Problem" (a historically loaded expression) to dismiss reports that Jews have problems with his stance on Israel Newsweek --a magazine that has all but endorsed Barack Obama for President -- had a feature article characterizing this "problem" as a myth.

But facts matter. Adam Eden of JTA reports on a poll from the magazine J-Street revealing serious problems for Obama among Jews. Obama is behing Kerryt, Gore and Clinton in terms of support from American Jews."

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/07/jewish_voters_and_obama.html

"Anyone have any plans of their own?"

Lets see

Go bid on a job tonight
build a trellis for my vining cucumbers
Have the house clean and get the Bathroom ready for phase two of the remodel.
Have a drink in hand ready for my wife when she returns from business in Newark
Do what ever she wants to do this weekend

Thats about it.

Jack

Karolenna

What stopped him from taking any of those trips during the first two years he was in the Senate before anyone really knew he existed or primaries were being held? What stopped him from being nothing but a rubber stamp for the party vote rather than siding with Senators such as Feingold?

What was stopping him was the need to make another weekend fundraising trip and speech. He couldn't spare the time to learn how to be a Senator before he got around to trying to learn how to be a President.

Let's hope he is one hell of a fast learner.

Bow -- I'm one of the suckers....I always give a buck or so when hit up.

Jack,

The last line's my favorite.

And the last name I had a truly fresh cucumber was when I was on a jaunt picking kirbys for my grandfather. (Kirbys and radishes were his ambrosia and manna... well, the ambrosia and manna that didn't hurt his heart.)

Jamie,

I've thought and said that bit about choosing between hearings and rallies, too.

I will add this. I've observed more than a few people in all sorts of vocations and lives who had to switch abruptly from a life in which all was treated as a means to an end and then another end...

To actually have to do one thing as there were no rungs left to straddle...

And a long way to fall down with countless hands pulling on their legs.

Clinton and Bush both devoted a great part of the first terms (and White House office space) to running for the second term the moment they were elected to their first.

I suppose that'll happen again as there seems to be little better to do until the Legacy Mindset kicks in during years seven and eight.

Jack,

The last TIME...

Sheesh - chemo brain.

This Chicago Tribune article from Three years ago makes interesting reading

http://obama.senate.gov/news/050626-when_it_comes_to_race_obama_ma/

Dog

"It's not nearly as costly as enduring four more years of what we suffered the last eight years."

That argument is what will add up to a landslide barring some totally horrendous event or scandal that we don't even want to begin to consider.

Amateur Hour

"There is absolutely NO DOUBT, that Barack Obama is an amateur when it comes to all policy matters, both domestic and foreign.

Nonetheless, his only premise for running for President of the United States, and the reason why many voters supported him, his supposed judgment, has proven to be highly flexible in times of political pressure and blatantly for sale when the right price has been met.

Let’s look then at a current (and updated) collection of what Obama has been up to lately in the realm of international affairs ...

Illinois Senator’s Record Of Inaction Leaves Him Discredited

Obama Has Never Been To Afghanistan; Skipped The Opportunity To Go In 2006

Obama Has Said He Will Increase The Number Of Troops And Aid In Afghanistan, But Voted Against Providing Funding For Operations

Obama Said That Commanders On The Ground Would Rather Have More Agricultural Specialists Than Troops In Afghanistan

Obama Said American Troops Were “Just Air-Raiding Villages And Killing Civilians” In Afghanistan

Obama Claimed That Arabic Linguists Needed In Afghanistan Were Being Sent To Iraq, But Arabic Is Not A Language Spoken In Afghanistan"

MORE:

http://savagepolitics.com/?p=928

dog,

Thanks for posting that.

If Schtickborough really had something to say, it might come near to those points.

I have one disagreement abouit his presumption.

That was not the case during Reagan's years, was it?

Politics formed all sorts of jetties and dams on that so-called tide.

And then the mentally ill and the homeless were kicked into things which were holes with something boatlike wrapped around 'em and set off to sink.

A lot of messes will continue even if Obama has great plans and solid execution.

There is a lot of craziness within state governments due to industry controlled appointments in both Housing Finance and Insurance administration which totally caters to big money lust. (Spitzer -- so-called enemy of Wall Street -- did more to make life easier and sleazier for companies like Countrywide and MBIA than you'd think his GOP nemesis Joe Bruno would have done.)

But... that rising tide stuff was a canard during Reagan's time. And while there was a surface level of comfort and growth all around during the Clinton years... as rising tides seem to have vanished and been replaced by swelling bubbles which pop and mutate into the next exploitive and destructive global scam.

dog,

Well... a lot more zest to the texture and a spectrum of nuance to the taste.

And a much nicer aftertaste, too.

It has been SUCH a while since I had a Pimm's cup!!!

I was in a restaurant on Sunday and found I in a state of wonder over how I once really knew (because I loved) the world of port.

Now... I'm wary of drinking because of my inner landfill. But I think there'll be a glass of white Lillet with my lips' name on it.

I was at the beach and then I got my hair cut. Any new polls while I was gone? LOL!

dog,

Well... Campari is around a forty proof wonder.

And a grand palate awakener, too.

(Some prefer the Cynar as the artichoke elements in it do even more to enhance the tastes of all you eat afterward.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWhUqo9Aivs

Low alcohol AND refreshing? Is that an oxymoron? LOL!

Corey,

I dunno.

I'm still trying to catch up on a bunch of "Who's Your Favorite Beatle" ones from Tiger Beat.

I'm still stuck analyzing the '65 numbers but I hear things get really complicated once The White Album hit the shelves. (Badly weighted towards McCartney due to Yoko and Revolution No. 9...)

What do you think about Obama going to IRAQ now ?

You think it is all for the press?
Is there any merit in his trip?

Or is that too current to talk about?

dog,

Rainwater Madeira...

Go to go drink some more Kool - aid.

...it's hot outside today : )

ub,

Somewhere (maybe linked from here, I don't remember what I am typing let alone where I read something that wasn't on my coffee cup) there's a piece Out There on with whom Obama should talk when he is in Iraq.

Among the sources cited?

Local journalists and independent pols, for starters. Makes great sense, yes?

UB

Did you read the thread up above. It's almost nothing but Obama to Iraq conversation.

Dog,

Go to Baskins and Robins. Pick up a lifetime supply of Pink Grapefruit Ice. Dump in Blender. Add the desired amount of Vodka, champagne or Seltzer. Spin slightly. Pour slush over crushed ice. Find lounger and good book. Repeat as necessary to achieve nirvana.

It's not Pimms, but in my youth, in upstate NY on the ex's rez it's that time of year for Mayer Bros. hard apple cider.

Comes in a plastic container like milk, hence the nickname "jug". You can add a packaged of koolaid too, .to flavor it a bit . lol

refreshing and low alcohol? O'douls beer.

and ofcourse- koolaid

I live 1/2 a block from Dairy Queen. I've got refreshing covered.

Rez,

I remember fermenting cider in those one gallon plastic jugs every fall...

Now I am doing the same with freaking kombucha and kefir.

I am old, I am old/I shall wear my trousers rolled...

From David Carr's new memoir, The Night of the Gun.

This ain't no James Frey mess.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/20/magazine/20Carr-t.html

Where does a junkie’s time go? Mostly in 15-minute increments, like a bug-eyed Tarzan, swinging from hit to hit. For months on end in 1988, I sat inside a house in north Minneapolis, doing coke and listening to Tracy Chapman’s “Fast Car” and finding my own pathetic resonance in the lyrics. “Any place is better,” she sang. “Starting from zero, got nothing to lose.”

“death wishes”

??????????????????????????????

Disliking their politicking ways is hardly wishing them death!

"I am old, I am old/I shall wear my trousers rolled..."

Though my back buckles and bends
My hair's got silvery ends
When I see all of my friends
Laid out and cold
Thank God, I'm Old!

LOL, I'm sure I'm still under the influence. They said it was the fermentation that got you wasted, but I think it was the chemical preservatives. Talk about a cheap high.

Jamie

Read the comments?

Why would I do that?

Patsi I'm drinking iced coffee, Koolaid is too sticky sweet, I need that bitter in my life.

If it is a sweet drink you want, my favorite is Horchata
you can get it at any traditional Mexican Restaurants. Or in a Mexican product store get the powdered mix and just add water..
or if you want to make it from scratch
http://www.gourmetsleuth.com/horchata.htm

Jack

“He couldn't spare the time to learn how to be a Senator before he got around to trying to learn how to be a President.”

He was getting his feet wet in the Senate, IMO. And, yes, he is a very fast learner because he is a very smart man, something lacking in the WH for about eight years. And, he doesn’t “stretch the truth”, which I believe is admirable.

"He was getting his feet wet "

Get his feet wet?
He didn't even walk down to the water.

Jack

jack,

But was he walking on it?

"And, he doesn’t “stretch the truth”, which I believe is admirable."

I admit, I'm a cynical old bastard, But he is a frickin' politician. Stretching the truth is part of the resume.
LOL
Jack just shakes his head in wonder.

Jack

Ok , 911

I might give you that one.

LOL

Jack

jack,

here is a Mexican drink made from Hibiscus flowers it is called Jamaica (Hy-maica) it is sort of a tea. not so sugary imo. Used to get it when I lived in Southern California. Very tasty.

¡yo soy Horsedooty

Down By The Water

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=me8aQA0VlI8

Dooty

I've never tried it
But I have tried the apple soda(can't think of the name) and it is good also it has a lot less sugar in than an american version would have.

Jack

Karolenna,

Nobody wants anyone to take inventory but he has done his share of that.

The actual story of how his father came to study in America was fascinating enough without his messing with the timeline of the Kennedy family's involvement in that program by a year.

There are so many arguable conflations and statements in his memoirs which have provoked lots of disagreements among the people who part of those events.

His campaign has a real tendency to overstate his part in legislation: I remember immediately is how broadly he took credit for passing the recent post-Abramoff ethics legislation.

While he was involved in formulating it... the strategy for passing it was never his.

This is not against him.

It's just trying to be objective about him.

If you object to that... then he stays the object of your vaunting rather than an actual politician/leader you can figure out how and where and when to push hard when he needs it. (And they all do.)

Karolenna

"He was getting his feet wet in the Senate, IMO. And, yes, he is a very fast learner because he is a very smart man"

There is a certain amount of expectation that once one gains a bit of familiarity with a job that you will actually DO that job for awhile before asking for a promotion.

Sen. Obama does seem to have skipped several steps in his rise to the stratosphere mostly through the use of connections and mentors, many of whom have now been dumped to the wayside once their usefulness expried.

Oops...I guess the donate-a-dollar post should have been directed to Bear...

Have a nice day everyone..off to the Oregon coast..

"do whatever she wants to do this weekend"

Jack -- I like your style of marriage! Everytime my daughter grouses about the fact that her husband has to travel I tell her that her father and I might still be married if he'd been gone most of the week!

Patsi

Ditto!!! One of the hardest things about marriage is that the same people are in the same place at the same time every single day. It's bad enough when that is your job. When you double up on the expectations by doing it at home as well, it is a wonder more people aren't strangled.

Your feet don't get wet when you walk on water.

Ask Joseph Smith. He supposdly walked across the Susquehannah River near Nineveh, NY

Dooty, I saw a program on great steak places last night. They mentioned a couple in Texas. Cattleman's Steakhouse in El Paso and Big Texan in Amarillo.

Here's one for you Jack as you contemplate the little lady coming home. Just got the email and thought of you.

Sorry if this has already been here.

There's counterpoint one for women.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OOD7VwGmdk

""It's not nearly as costly as enduring four more years of what we suffered the last eight years."

I believe that the long national nightmare so thoroughly depressed Americans -- to the point of it being clinical -- that all it took to rev up the masses was a guy who talked like a preacher, repeated "change" over and over and and got people chanting "yes we can."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OOD7VwGmdk

Pretty funny! My personal favorite, "Never mind," got left off the list!

Rez
LOL
That's just basic marraige 101, to be learned in the first year. Right along with they may forgive but they will never forget.

Jack

The talking heads say Get the feet wet.

Jamie said

"UB - Did you read the thread up above. It's almost nothing but Obama to Iraq conversation."

No- it was my bad, I was working and just popped in for a few quick reads....All I saw was the "orchastrate for the press" and negative comments...I'll try not to do that again.

...back to work for a living.....

DOWN TO THE RIVER TO PRAY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x87RKXETBEk

Yeah, Horse, it does make you a racist, but I won't hold that against you. Hell, I'm racist, too, I suppose. It would just be nice if you, and everyone else, could just admit it. I will say in earnest I take individuals on an individual basis. I can't look someone in the eye and judge them with no knowledge of their person or character. It's easy to make generalizations in a philosophical context, which is what I do mostly here. I realize this is probably not the proper forum for such, but que sera sera.

I would love the get into an honest discussion of racial theory, which I realize is a dirty term, last popularized within Hitler's Germany. As long as it's avoided, I don't think any real progress will be made on the issue, just swept under the rug. My mind does what it will do, though, which may be one reason I consider myself a philosophical Taoist, as such advocates the elimination of thought. That may be an alien concept to some, but I get it. Like the old saying about riding a Harley: "If I had to tell you, you wouldn't understand".

I refer to Obama's speech on race, made in Philly, I believe, (my hometown), to which he mentioned "guilty Liberals looking for racial redemption on the cheap". I said to myself, "hey, that's me!". Part of me would like to see Obama elected just so we could get off the whole "American society is aligned against the black man" angle. Kind of funny that Obama made me question my own support of his candidacy, but that's what happened. If the only reason I supported Obama was due to his race, well then, that's a pretty shitty rationalization.

I just look around Philly and wonder what the f*** sometimes. Blacks are murdering each other in the streets at the rate of one a day or more (I belive there were over 400 murders and 1000 shootings last year), the schools are violent, the neighborhoods are decrepit, the streetlights are all knocked out so drug dealers can operate more easily; it's such a friggin' clusterf***, and I just wonder "why". Is it because of white oppression? Something inside me rejects that, but hell, I'm not so arrogant to assume that MY conclusions are valid. Hell, these are points that have been made by black leaders like Obama, Jackson, Cosby, Bond et. al. And when such leaders do venture to make such assertions, they are shouted down and ridiculed by those whom I belive are too cowardly to contemplate the issue seriously, possibly afraid of the conclusions that will be drawn. I dunno, dude/dudette. I just want some fucking answers.

Either way, you, or anyone else, can dismiss me for it, that is your right, and I certainly wouldn't hold it against you. As I told Jack, I'm well aware of my own ignorance. I apologize for any affronts I made towards you, and you can reject that as well without any judgement from me. I figure an anonymous forum is the ideal place to have such a discussion, at least at the inception. I'm just trying to be honest with all of you, and more importantly, myself.

I'm not even going to proofread the preceding blabber. Thank you.

Champ,
You have got to be the most interesting and honest person I have ever read.

Champ....
I do not believe we are all racists...... I do, however, believe that we all harbor prejudices.....
the difference being that racist do deliberate acts to hurt others whom are different..... being prejudice means you harbor ill feelings , but don't act on those feelings..... this of course.... is just my opinion.....

I believe that basically, all humans are tribal.... whether we want to admit to it or not.... we all feel comfortable within our own social structures..... and that isn't necessarily a bad thing..... it just is.....

"Also Obama's emphasis on change coming through the grassroots, and of Americans having to work for it. "

And just like he turned his post-Reverend Wright so-called race speech into a finger shake at everyone else, the Mighty O will blame the American people if he can't bring about his Brave New World just by showing up and voting present.

Along the lines of what some of you are talking about with racial relations … I did not see it but heard about it. Guess they were discussing the Jesse Jackson episode and got into an argument. It was discussed in a heated manner this morning on The View. Watch video:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/17/whoopi-and-elisabeth-spar_n_113316.html

" do not believe we are all racists...... I do, however, believe that we all harbor prejudices....."

Agree, Renee -- I held a grudge against Catholics for years because of those awful fish sticks the grade school cafeteria fed us on Fridays.

Damn, just opened the electric bill--$300.20.

So why's my local electricity charge skyrocketing? My local company, SCE&G, uses a combination of nuclear, hydro and coal--none of which are imported and none of which are used as vehicle fuels.

This is beginning to tick me off.

In the video Whoppi is correct according to some of you. There are still many racial issues. It is my opinion that the issues are within the soul of someone and there are those who do not want to deal with people who may differ from them in one way or another. It is more fear than anything else. Throughout time and probably through eternity there will be people who believe they are better than others.

"It was discussed in a heated manner this morning on The View. Watch video:"

Hilarious. Hasselback is such a twit. I can't believe she didn't know that Whoopi uses that term all the time. And has explained very clearly why she does it.

"And just like he turned his post-Reverend Wright so-called race speech into a finger shake at everyone else"

Patsi

You and Jesse Jackson seem to be on the same wavelength.
Jack

Patsi...... ROFL!

well I'm pissed off at the Klingons.....
have you seen their high council...... it's all men.....

One of my Republican buddies just sent me one of those over the top pieces comparing school in 1957 to school in 2007. While conceding the appeal to prejudice and blaming everything bad in society on liberal attitudes, it does reflect behavior 50 years ago compared to today.

Leaving out the deep South because of de jure segregation and other legal repressions, can we discuss the neighborhoods of a half century ago?

Two of my favorite movies are Devil in a Blue Dress and LA Confidential because they do a pretty good job of showing the Los Angeles of the 1950s ... not some sqeaky clean paradise but certainly a lot less violent for the average person of any race even with de facto segregation that was just as divided as the south.

The neighborhoods were a lot cleaner and safer, the schools were at the top of the nation, and the employment was plentiful. I don't think it was just my family that moved easily for a variety of reasons within those neighborhoods even if we didn't necessarily socialize with the residents.

The fact that there were less than 15 million people in the state rather than the almost 37 million today might have something to do with the negative changes, but there seem to be changes in what is acceptable behavior as well.

http://cakewrecks.blogspot.com/

Corey,

I only know of a Cattleman's Restaurant in Fort Worth and The Big Texas is world famous . Here is their web site:

http://www.bigtexan.com/72ozlive.htm

I have never tried to eat a 72 oz steak ever.

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

Karolena

I'm addressing the video, not you

It is not a simple issue, not within the AA community nor society at large.
The"were all the same" can only be spoken by someone who is isolated to a community of his own kind.. IMO

I live in a community where we don't look the same, we don't sound the same, we don't worship the same, we don't eat the same, we don't dance the same, We don't have the same values.

About all we have in common in my neighborhood is the basics that make us human. The desire for the company of fellow humans, to have a structure where we can interact with other humans, procreate and have accomplishments we can be proud of.

Jack

Doots, I well remember their billboards along Rte 66. I was sorely tempted but never caved.

"well I'm pissed off at the Klingons.....
have you seen their high council...... it's all men....."

Good point Renee! I'll add them to the list!

"Devil in a Blue Dress "

Jamie -- that was a GREAT movie. My favorite character? Mouse!

I agree racism and its little sidekick, prejudice, are rooted in fear. BHO actually addressed the question some months ago and pointed to a way to move on. Reach out. Don't like AA? Fine find another way. Do it on Sunday or Saturday night; it doesn't matter. What doesn't help is sitting on your ass and crapping about it.
I think the thread started with name calling. Mexican roofers vs Anglo roofers. Prejudice is not racism--it is the beginning but beginings can lead anywhere. Ther is endlessly offensive speech intended to injure and subjugate. Calling people who are prejudiced racists does not advance the cause. A wake-up call is cool, maybe a friendly warning but not a "you are a racist"--It's a fight that goes nowhere. In fact, as I and BO said
fighting racism is not a fight it is just a matter of reaching out. That is what happened too rarely in Europe in the last century. Is this getting through?
I do not intend for this to sound sanctimonious but I have given the subject some consideration and I believe BO has as well.

A pleasant afternoon to all,

Lots of good banter today.

champ,
I read your long post but can't figure out why you call yourself (and everyone
else) racists.

What characteristics qualify a person as a racist? (other than the obvious
white supremacist-haters).

Sometimes, I think the word racist gets tossed around like a bomb, exploding
and alienating honest conversation because people get defensive when
labeled with such a destructive term.

I agree with you that an honest dialog about race is needed in this
country among all of us.

whadda country.......every four years we vote for our favorite masochist and then spend 4 years ripping him or her to shreds.......since there's two parties it's guaranteed that whomever is selected gets ripped to shreds.....

we who are about to rip yas a new one salute yous......

lol

I mean, not that WE actually do any ripping, we're just guests at the circus..........

a mass murderer is indulging his "pursuit of happiness"......extreme example of "where's the line?"

Jamie,

Your post about 1950s vs postmodern culture is an important topic.
Of course, you are right that not everything was "Father's Knows Best"
and white picket fences in the 50s, but there are some elements of that time
that we ultra moderns could try to emulate.

In my humble opinion, a lot of the problems in our society seem from the fact
that many families are fragmented--not much home life. Something as simple as a family eating together a few times a week might help curb some of the dysfunction.

Wasn't Obama speaking about the breakdown of the family--men not
staying around to support the kids--as part of what has gone so terribly wrong
in our society? I agree with him and Bill Cosby on this issue.

Life liberty (and the pursuit of Happiness) I think this was Ben Franklin's contribution but I am not sure. Anyway my take on it is that governments may not take the lives or liberties of the citizens without losing legitamacy. The pursuit of happiness is such a vague term but I think it was included to mean the ideal by which the other two are granted and preserved.

RR I agree completely and your examples were good. I would just caution that we should be self aware enough to know when we are being prejudiced. Some people are not.

Oh you mean it isn't to be interrupted as pursuit of happiness even if by breaking the law of the land?~~~~~

UB I believe in civil disobedience and being green.

Champ -

Have you been following Tao Te Ching for a while or is it new to you? ( just curious)

I'll Fly Away - Allison Krauss

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjgYsHt71XE

Damn, I hate gettin' drug back in...

Uh, I've always felt that way, just didn't know what to call it until I read the Tao Te Ching. There are a lot of different types of Taoism, religious and philosophical. Lao Tzu's Tao is the latter.

Thanks maggisd for reminding me of it at a time when I needed to be. It wasn't her intention, and she didn't even know she did. Such is the Tao.

"Tao" just means "way" for those who don't know. Thus, if you are following the Tao, you are following the way.

Oh, and about 7 or 8 years ago to answer your question specifically

Oh, and what is the way? Only you can answer that for yourself.

Jesus, I hate the internet...

Champ, I am sure will come to cleare perspective over time. I just can't help thinking about those kids in Philly that you began to describe. I've been there so I know what you are seeing. Those kids are not getting a fair shake. They need help. Money, legislation, support, church involvement. Hell a good lawyer. Rodent control, a junk bicycle. a class trip to the classiest resort in the city. All I know is that it won't happen unless some good people reac out. Never mind any of this though--read Riot and Rememberance by James Hirsch.

Oh, and what is the way? Only you can answer that for yourself.

Ain't it the truth

Jack

I don't know if any of you have been following the Tiger Stadium saga. They have started razing the stadium. Former Tigers broadcaster Ernie Harwell is leading a group that is trying to get the city of Detroit to save some of the stadium, not tear it down completely. They need to raise $400,000 by August 1st in order to do so. Since we are talking about racism, this story is an example of people bringing up the subject and others not wanting to talk about it.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080716/COL27/80716045/&imw=Y

It's Happy Hour! Here are some low-alcohol summer drinks (someone asked for these earlier.)

1. Malibu rum and Pineapple Juice
2. Cape cod served tall (Vodka and cran in a tall glass)
3. Fuzzy Navel (Peach Schnapps and Orange Juice)
4. Amaretto Sour
5. Midori Sour
6. Malibu Baybreeze (Malibu, Cranberry, Pineapple Juice
7. Sex on the beach (Vodka, Peach, OJ, Cranberry Juice)
8. Junebug (Malibu, Midori, Pineapple)
9. Apple Pucker, Amaretto, Cranberry
10. Bacardi Limon and Lemonade
11. Wine spritzer (Wine and soda with twist of lemon)
12. Amaretto and soda w/ twist
13. Campari and soda w/ twist
14. Kir -- White wine with creme de cassis
15. Kir Royale -- Champagne with Creme de Cassis
16. Tinto de Verano -- Equal parts dry red wine & La Casera (or Sprite w/ dash of soda)
17. Moonrise: 1:1 Grapefruit juice & Grand Marnier 2 dashes of rosewater, shake well ans rain into wine glass, top with champagne.

Jamie, Prof Marcia, Patsi - others who have spoken about the '50s as opposed to today.
I grew up in a very diverse area of LA county ... primarily working-class and while predominantly white, there were significant Asian, Mexican-American, and African-American populations. The one thing we all knew by the time we were in junior high was that ethnic name-calling was a no-no. No one told us that --we just knew it. All of us were likely to have a rainbow coalition of friends, primarily based on academic achievement or extra-curricular activities.

When the Watts riots happened (I was living in Compton at the time and we had good friends living at 104th & Avalon, a block away from Ground Zero) we were all shocked. Perhaps we were living in a fool's paradise ... most of us had no idea that such a thing could ever happen in LA.

Alicia: My refreshing and not cloyingly sweet drink of preference ... an ordinary old greyhound (vodka and grapefruit juice).

Champ thank you for your answer, and sorry to pull you back in....lol

Maggs - I lived in LA during the Rodney King Riots - do you know how the two riots would compare?

1992 - LA R. King uprising (wiki) 53 lives were lost, with as many as 2,000 people injured. Estimates of the material damage done vary between about $800 million and $1 billion. Approximately 3,600 fires were set, destroying 1,100 buildings, with fire calls coming once every minute at some points. Over 10,000 people were arrested.

UB: I was living in San Diego by that time. My late brother--still in LA--rode his bicycle home from Torrance to Culver City the night the riots began. He was able to see fires all along the way.
From what I understand, the Rodney King rioting was much more extensive -- it covered a larger area and was much more destructive.
The other difference that I am aware of is that in the Watts riots the city made an effort to control the situation. During the Rodney King riots, the police were apparently ordered to hang back and let the citizens destroy their neighborhoods...until the activities began to threaten upscale AA communities and white communities.
The Rodney King riots, of course, were not a big surprise...the Watts riots were.

maggisd,

I wonder if the average junior high kid gowing up in L.A. today would be more similar to your experiences as a young person or vastly different.

From what I see as a college professor, my students tend to from groups
according to race especially my Asian students, but all seem to bond in
cliques of ethnic similarity, although most have acquaintances outside of
their close circle.

On a political note again -- an interesting piece at HuffPo about Exelon Corp's faux plan to become environmentally friendly

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-sassoon/exelons-climate-plan-a-bi_b_113076.html

If you google Exelon and Obama you will find that Exelon is one of the biggest contributors to the Obama campaign, that Axelrod has worked for them ... and so has Mark Penn.

Have no idea what this portends...but apparently both candidates are nuclear friendly. Personally, it scares the cr*p out of me.

One more libation: Black Velvet -- Stout and champagne. Sounds odd, but tastes miraculous.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Velvet_(beer_cocktail)

Cheers everyone!

~ Alicia
from behind the 8-ball

Prof Marcia: Hard to say. A good part of the area where I grew up remains as it was -- working-class and ethnically diverse. But I have no idea if the students are as socially integrated as we were.
I live in a similar neighborhood here in San Diego, and frequently observe the kids walking home from school -- my observation is that the military kids hang together (in general) and that, as you say, the Asian kids are more cliqueish ...
The areas where one sees the most interaction are sports (both school and community), band, drill team -- that type of thing. Also the local Catholic church.

UB

Maggie can give her impression but I'll toss in mine. Watts was a genuine explosion against decided racism. Maggs says she was surpirsed. My reaction was that I was surprised it hadn't happened sooner. On the surface Watts looked like a fairly nice place to live. Older single family homes, most owned by their residents with small neat yards, fairly good paying jobs for those with limited education (well educated had another well to do area in which to live), but there was a sense of being trapped and a police force that was about as dirty as one can get.

Wiki has a fairly good general write up
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watts_Riots

To my mind a lot of the Rodney King riot was a protest that quickly wound up into a riot for the sake of criminal activity that had little or nothing to do with civil rights.

Maggs - that was pretty brave of your brother, he's lucky he didn't get hurt.

IT was a mess, and yes you are correct, after that video, I cant believe the verdict. LA has always had a bad reputation in their police force....planting weapons, killing people by shooting them in their backs....I can't imagine what it would be like to always be watching your back, just because of the color of your skin.....

Which brings to mind the movie Crash.

Jamie thanks for the insight...yes a dirty police state for many....which continued and most likely remains alive and well in LA

dog's--to tell you the truth, I wouldn't hire a "kid" of any background to do work around my house (worker's comp laws) and I don't know if I could find one who would do it, even if I were so inclined. Nor will I hire the workers who stand on the corners...I wish them well but I personally don't care to take a chance. On the other hand, when I had my yard landscaped, I didn't bother to enquire if all the workers had papers.

The thing about it is...I have lived here most of my life. I shop in bodegas myself. I know and celebrate the history of the people who first settled here and wish fervently that we could go back to the time when crossing the border was just a routine part of our lives.

On the enrgy post. Congress needs to reinstate the alternative energy subsidies but even more it has to make the grid available to all qualified generators. The guy with a ranch or a farm who is paying through the nose for power can realize a real savings if he can generate in peak hours and consume at other times. The power companies have lobbied against this for years and have successfully bottled up a bill by Menendez of NJ to open up the grid. Aside from rural wind and solar contributors new construction could incorporate solar electric in the cities and in suburban areas.
Nuclear scares me too and the only safeguard is in strict regulation or (horror of horrors) government opperated plants. I had better stop.

Jamie: The story on the Watts riot for me personally had several dimensions to it
First, we had very good friends who lived at 104th and Avalon (only a block away from ground zero) whom we used to visit frequently throughout my childhood. I perhaps saw the neighborhood through that lens.
Second, I lived in Compton which was a changing neighborhood at the time ... but I personally didn't see anything amiss.
Third, my husband was in the service and we had a pretty diverse group of friends, so again, my own experience didn't alert me to the possibilities.

The discussion of Watts had me checking out my HS

http://www.westchesterhs.org/index.jsp?rn=4772349

In 1961 it was virtually all white with a few Asian, Samoan. Black and Hispanic was probably in single digits.

Now it is about 60% AA 30% Asian and Hispanic and about 10% white. It is still a decidedly middle class school in a nice area between Inglewood and the Beach cities.

In 1959 I attended John C. Fremon HS that had been all white when my father graduated from there in 1934, but was almost all black the year I went. I used to tease friends about being constantly outnumbered. I had a good time, but the school ws much more crowded and the materials not of the best quality compared to other places I had been.

http://www.fremonths.org/index.jsp?rn=8287489

It actually looks more mixed now than when I attended.

Dog --- Serve the Black Velvet in a champagne flute and mind how you pour it -- over a spoon is the best way.

Great idea about the champagne minis. I will have to get some now!

Maggs -- Thanks! I forgot about the greyhound! Ever try salting the rim for a Salty Dog?

Everyone likes free stuff:

https://pol.moveon.org/obamastickers/indextight.html?fb_id=90080&rc=fb.ads.nonyouth

Alicia: I am not fond of salt-rimmed glasses. Even with Margueritas.

I feel like the bubble girl....rarely living in a mixed hood.... : (

I have written about it on my blog, so I don't have to go into it here...but, what disturbs me most, is people have known for a long time, and actually like, say some of the things that would never cross my mind. ( about different races and religions)

I call them on it in a kind way, but you know, they are set in their ways. That's scary to me. ( this never happened to me while living in CA only in TX and OH)

Jamie: Did you ever go to the La Tijera theater?

My HS journalism advisor lived in Westchester and I seem to recall that her neighborhood was pretty spiffy ... it was on the beach side of the main drag. (Was it Sepulveda or Lincoln that went up the hill?)

Also, do you remember, or did you ever go to a collection of fast-food outlets at the base of the hill called Airport Village?

Once again it's ok to eat tomatoes of all kinds..but watch out for jalapenos and serrano peppers (oy vey)

(07-17) 15:18 PDT WASHINGTON, (AP) --

It's OK to eat all kinds of tomatoes again, the U.S. government declared Thursday — lifting its salmonella warning on the summer favorites amid signs that the record outbreak, while not over, may finally be slowing.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/07/17/national/w123520D89.DTL&tsp=1

Just in time for BLT season.

big fan of the salty dog

Actually kind of forgot about it until tonight, thanks Alicia : )

Flatus - I like your style, and yes, the p is way too close to the b.

Interesting info re Indymac -- there is a number to call for info on the mess, a special FDIC number. They are going to sell the acounts to other banks etc. My friend had $4,000 over the insured amount, interest he had accrued, and he will most likely lose half of that.

I have always felt that if I were in a situation such as happened in A Wonderful Life, I would not make a run on the bank. That's kinda like thinking that for sure I would have backed Washington in 1776-81 - easy to think and say, but it was more hazardous than we think.

But it helps to have people not go crazy to get their money out, and his cd is still accruing interest, and this interest is not in jeopardy.

So the money stays, and he will be notified when it is sold and it wil stay at the same interest rate.

I remember when Papa Bush pushed thru some easing of restrictions on banks and I wonder if those had anything to do with this huge mess we are dealing with today.

Champ - I am curious to know in what way you are a racist. You've certainly never posted any views that are racist, and you seem to be particulary adamant about not liking racism.

I don't consider myself a racist, except I can get pretty bored with just wasps around me. That doesn't mean I don't dislike or like anyone for being a wasp. It just means I like variety. Frankly, being racist is a lot of work to me, altho it might look like a time saver - you can tell who's bad or stupid by just one look if you follow racism.

But what do you do when someone whose skin color tells you is no good - when that person turns out to be
wonderfully kind and helpful, strong, intelligent, charming - what do you do then?

First, you have to do a lot of denying - that could take months or years. Denial is very hard on the brain and soul because your brain and soul do not want to deny.

Eventually, you might give yourself a break and admit, okay, this person is okay, but not the others. This is also a precarious position - your brain and soul know better.

Ergo, you will fare much better with the world and life as it is if you will come to grips with the reality that you can't tell a person's worth from the color of her or his skin. You might be able to infer a few things about that person's background by the color of her or his skin, but even that is full of pitfalls.

You're much better off waiting until you know a person before you decide that person's value to you and/or the world.

So that's why I'm not a racist. It's a fool's way, and I don't think you're a fool, Champ.

UB: My brother lived in Galveston for a couple of years. Twice when I visited him incidents occurred that really bothered both of us. Ugly racial slurs used in conversation just as a matter of course.
Had my brother not been with me, I would likely have said something (I have asked people to leave my home for such talk), but I didn't want to draw my brother in, in case the other person might want to pick a fight.
Still, it was very uncomfortable and quite a lesson to me -- this was in the late 80s and I was astounded that people still talked that way -- especially to strangers in a business setting.

"Very honestly, this blog itself could serve for a petri dish on prejudice."

Very honestly, I'm surprised you waited this long for the blanket insult.

50s: the draft, lynchings, 'maturity' of the gulag, SF's Mad Sniper, ringworm and pink-eye epidemics, China invades Tibet, 1st Korean retreat, minks, pinks, and stinks, Pizza attacks America's arteries, Huk rebellion, the great comic book panic, Mao Mao rebellion, The H bomb, motorcycle gangs, duck and cover, red China in Korea & 2d retreat, Ike keeps Nixon on ticket despite 'gifts', zip guns, Russian H bomb, Joe Mccarthy & blacklisting, Princess SummerFallWinterSpring dies, Polish rising squashed, Mossa Degh, secret Pentagon isotope bombing of civilians, Polio epidemics, coal mine disasters, Russia's H bomb, the Guatemala coup, NY's Mad bomber, the '54 recession, Hungarian rising squashed, air disasters, 'Superman' suicide, rapid advance of grocery, department & drugstore chains, cranberry/cancer scare, Suez, Ike increases the amount of rat poop allowed in flour, S.S. Stockholm sinks Andria Doria, Sherman Adams' vicuna coats, Sputnik, America's satellite failures, Army's secret LSD tests on unsuspecting GIs, Laika dies, The Great Leap Forward, France bombs Tunisian schools, Dalai Lama flees Tibet, Battista gets away with 25 MM in bullion.

Did I leave anything out?

Those weren't the good old days.

Here's a question for discussion ... if one holds to certain stereotypes, is one necessarily prejudiced?

xrepublican: Every generation and time period has its disasters. The difference in the 50s was that we were hopeful -- we knew that whatever was wrong could be made right.

I think if stereotypes can be from personal experience it could become prejudiced, if you refuse to maintain an open mind for future interaction.

I have been stereotyped many times....I think we all know that feeling....people assume you are one way, when it can be so far from the truth....

There were big riots in LA & SF in the '40s, too. The so-called Zoot Suit riots, in which Anglos attacked Hispanics. A lot of people died in those, too, and I don't think the police of the time cared too much about it.

testing

UB: I am not going to maintain an open mind when it comes to bicyclists ... I'd rather be prejudiced than cause someone's death.

Magg ,
defensive driving that's what that is, because you really never "know"

maggisd,

When I was still in college, I was a teaching assistant in Watts.
It was sort of surreal. I was blond and green eyed and the entire school was
black even the faculty. I never felt out of place, strange now that I think of it.
I really loved teaching at the school--Edison Junior High. The black woman,
who was my mentor teacher, Amelia Bryant, was the inspiration for me to become a teacher. She became like my second mother. After work sometimes, I'd wander around Watts and browse in the thrift stores that dotted the streets. Everyone was very friendly and casual with me.

1950's

Good times
Edmund Hillary climbed Everest and the first photocopier as well as the beginning of the computer era in ernest. I think rural electrictrication also became the policy and the polio vaccine. Lots of good stuff.

agreed, I wish more cars drivers cared about the pedestrians and bikers. It's brutal out there

Explore your hidden biases:

http://www.tolerance.org/hidden_bias/index.html

maggisd,

I like that analogy.

Responses are different than reactions.

What you described is a response to a certain moment based on accreted experience.

I doubt many of the bike riders were anyone you knew specifically to break that law.

But you had had enough experience to influence your response.

A reaction would have had you see everything in stark terms (black! white!) and scream names without having any real knowledge of the rider's character and nature.

Instead... you just hung back.

At least you didn't accuse the other riders of pedaling with, say, cloven feet.

As that would have made you a bicyclist-ist.

xrepublican: The Zoot suit riots were largely between Anglo servicemen and Chicanos and really were a function of the enormous influx of people from all over, many of whom had never been off the farm, so to speak.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoot_Suit_Riots

Maggi - what do you mean 'holds to certain stereotypes'? If you mean noticing something that might make you dislike a person, I don't think so Sticking to that first imression in the face of all evidence is probably prejudice.

If the first thing you notice about a person is the color of skin and that tells you that you might not like that person, you might be flirting with being a racist or growing out of it.

All these definitions are so subjective. The fact of the matter is that there are many factors to consider when deciding how you feel about other people. Race, money, social standing, intelligence, kindness, and some of them are not admirable, and call for unattractive names, like racist or snob.

To me the most valuable factor way above all others is how one treats other people. Without a good 'grade' there, a person doesn't have much of a chance with me.

Prejudice is judging a person without knowing that person.

Racism is using skin color or ethnicity as the basic factor in judging a person.

They're both stupid, as I said in my disgustingly long rant.

We discriminate based on reason otherwise it is bias or prejudice. The bike example was about discrimination based on reason not a stereotype based on god knows what. IMO

9/11: My bicycle fetish is, of course, influenced by the fact that my late brother was one of those bicyclists and had more than a few mishaps with people brushing him off the side of the road. On the other hand, I do mumble and mutter about the fact that they are too concerned with their destination to obey the traffic laws. However, I don't call anyone names. It is a deep core principle of mine.

WHAT???!?!??!?!?!?

Princess SummerFallWinterSpring dead???Details?

What about Flubadub?

Maggie

I went to the La Tiejera (up the hill in the ritzier homes), but the two theaters in my part of town were the Paradise and the Loyola. We lived on the part of 78th just before the rise (close to the wealthier folks, but not quite there. lol) Manchester runs to the Ocean. Sepulveda goes to the Valley and used to become Old 99.and the Ridge Route

That feeling about Watts was the same experience for me. If you knew the people there was never a question of not being welcome. I think that may be why some of the tension in today's world seems so foreign. That period in California from the late 50s through the 60s was so very different. If you had friends in other races you knew about the problems, but they simply weren't part of your experience.

maggisd,

Strangely... when someone here declares ABSOLUTELY that someone has a despicable nature and does and denies despicable acts...

That is not considered prejudiced 'round here.

I'd heard of ethnic cleansing, of course.

But some days this place is a home to ethic cleansing.

Boop: I do not believe that I form likes or dislikes based upon anyone's race or ethnicity.

On the other hand, I always wait for SUVs to back out of a parking space before proceeding forward in a parking lot, I do avoid getting in line behind a family with more than two young children in tow -- that type of thing. Now, not all SUV drivers are unconscious and not all young parents are unable to control their children ... but these are some of my prejudices.

maggisd,

And yes people don't have to be on a bike (or on even a road) to pedal through the lives of others with their heads spelunking their excessively comfy behinds.

Jamie: You have it so exactly right. That's why the Watts riots came as such a surprise to me ... just naive, I guess.
I remember the Loyola...had not thought of it in years. The reason I asked...I got my first ticket there for running a red light. I received an onerous punishment ... I could only drive to school, to work, to take my grandmother (who did not drive) on needed errands -- for 60 days.
Although I was tempted, I didn't ask the judge where else he thought a 17 year old was going to drive ... not as if I was going to participate in the drag races down Jefferson Blvd (although I watched more than a few).

Many were hopeful in the 50s, but I think a lot of AAs were gloomy, just as a lot them are today with a lot less reason. Police were in on attacks against Blacks, sometimes fatal. There were no suspects. As late as the mid '60s, pro-seg pols in Dixie made hay by boasting publicly, "Segregation tuhday, segregation tuhmarrah, segregation fuhevah!"

A black Chicago kid visiting his grandmother down south was battered into unrecognizable mush for whistling at a white woman and tossed in the river. Today, they probably wouldn't do that unless he whistled at a white boy.

Asians couldn't leagally vote in CA until 1960. I don't think they felt very cheery.

A lot of Jews were certain that all the red baiting was just code for kill all the Jews. Women whispered worriedly about, "the knock on the door." That concern didn't dissipate until Kennedy's inauguration.

"Giant" pointed out the discrimination and hatred against Hispanics in TX. I haven't been down in Houston/Galveston in 10 years, but I heard plenty of nasty comments about Hispanics.

However, for most Whites, it was a period of unusual optimism.

my test result form Alicia link

Your Result
Your data suggest a moderate automatic preference for European American compared to African American.

9/11: I have always wondered why political and societal disagreements should give rise to such intense dislike among some people.
It's as if the very idea that we do not all think alike is somehow unacceptable ... or, rather, the idea that if someone does not agree with your every idea, that person is somehow worthy of contempt or ridicule.

xrepublican

Everything you mentioned was just historical events that people lived through. It has nothing to do with the lives they lived with family and friends.

My stepsister was a victim of the polio epidemic and was paralyzed from the neck down, confined to a wheel chair and then dying after five years at 15 during her third spinal fusion operation.

Nothing in that tells you who was coming in the front door of the home in El Monte or that the area was then solidly middle class Mexican of several generations standing.

Alicia's test link
Me too ..slight preference
it's an interesting test.

boop,

Did Flubadub sing...

"Meatballs, meatballs, meatballs, meatballs, I love some meatballs, meatballs, meatballs and spaghetti, I'm always ready, to eat spaghetti"?

Some years ago I learned a funny thing about the Canadian version of Howdy Doody.

For a brief while when (I think) it debuted, Buffalo Bob (now Ranger Bob) was William Shatner.

He replaced at pretty much the last minute another actor who didn't like his salary...

James Doohan.

Also in that cast was Robert Goulet.

Is Shatner then the sole survivor of Howdy Doody Land?

xrepublican: Although I was surprised by the Watts riots in LA, I think even those of us who were just kids in the 50s were aware that not everything was hunky dory. People in my family were blacklisted. We watched the Army-McCarthy Hearings. We knew about lynchings and about poor Emmet Till and the Klan. I went to school with kids who were born at Manzanar. Some of us knew that our "grown-ups" didn't particularly want us hanging around with the Chicano kids .... but what we knew and hoped for and anticipated was that in our lifetimes things were going to be mended, that we had the power to make things better...and we would.

Maggs,

There is still time to make things better...

The first Summer Fall Winter Spring was also Elvis Presley's love interest in Jailhouse Rock

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judy_Tyler

maggisd,

Some people just project their own inner messes on others.

Which must be why they are SO certain of how evil, demented, ignorant and flawed all those people they accuse of these dreadful traits must be.

jamie,

She died so young. And, as Sturge brought up Sweet Thursday, Judy Tyler was such a truly good Suzie in the Steinbeck/Rodgers & Hammerstein stage version of it.

Oh, well. I like Sweet Thursday but I love Cannery Row. Could be because (I think) while Ed Ricketts (the absolute model for Doc) was alive when Steinbeck wrote the first novel, he had died before Steinbeck started Sweet Thursday.

Did Suzy at one point cry out, "I ain't got the class of a duck!"??

You know in Ron Powers' Mark Twain he, powers,makes a passing referance ealy on about politics and politicians--that they dutifully keep us all seperated. I don't think we should buy it. There is always commonality and to think otherwise is playing into the game of the powerfull interests. Of course Twain had a few pithy remarks himself but I think that Powers brought away something very acute in his study of him.

maggisd,

One of the interesting things about the 50s is that the media insisted that Ed Hillary climbed 'Everest'. There is no evidence to show that the first foot on the peak was Hillary's. The 'conqueror might actually have been Tenzing Norgay.

Likewise Peary's trek to the pole. Henson probably carried him the last 1/4 mile.

re Zoot Suit riots, a lot of servicemen, yes, but a lot of other Whites, also. I've heard that it arose from competition for girlfriends, but I think it was about race hate and anger at seeing tan guys with white gals. The riots went on even after WWII, when the competition was for jobs.

Gotta go,
G'night!

I wasn't born in the 1950s but I do know something about that decade:

1950s: "I love Lucy," poodle skirts, rock-n-roll, drive-ins, beat poets,
"On The Road" by Jack Kerouac, "Catcher In The Rye" by J.D. Salinger,
Allen Ginsberg's "Howl," The Crucible-Arthur Miller, nuclear families,
cruising in cars, Davy Crockett, silly putty, bowling, skating rinks, hula hoops,
listening to 45 records at music stores, Gunsmoke, Monopoly, Paint-by-numbers, dodgeball, Marilyn Munroe, Twilight Zone, Superman, Andy Griffith Show,"A Summer Place" with Sandra Dee and Troy Donahue, "The King and I," "Gentleman Prefer Blonds," Sylvia Plath--"The Bell Jar,"
"From Here To Eternity," "Invasion of the Body Snatchers,"
"Rebel Without a Cause."

Hillary and Norgay Climb Mount Everest (1953): After years of dreaming about it and seven weeks of climbing, New Zealander Edmund Hillary and Nepalese Tenzing Norgay reached the top of Mt. Everest, the highest mountain in the world, at 11:30 a.m. on May 29, 1953.

They did it together

The good old days of the Clinton Revolution. One Nation Under a Groove. Get your Bop Guns Ready. Circa 1993.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dxl4lQ8tmdM

"Did Suzy at one point cry out, "I ain't got the class of a duck!"??"

I don't know, but it's a helluva good line.

I'd like to hear opinions on this comment I recieved
re: Barack Obama, when I corrected a friend regarding his race.

"But still half black. I am a realist, not an optimist. "

Don't forget this great 50's hit

ARTHUR GODFREY

Come here gol-darned you
Take that and that and that
That's right

Slap her down again pa
Slap her down again
Make her tell us more pa
Tell us where she's been
We don't want our neighbors
Talkin' bout our kin
Slap her down again pa
Slap her down again

Well pa and ma were so darn sore
They woke me up one night
There was an awful cussin'
And ma said pa was right
They was a-waitin' sister Bess
Who never kept her word
The Sun came up as Bess came in
And this is what I heard

Slap her down again pa
Slap her down again
Make her tell us more pa
Tell us where she's been
We don't want our neighbors
Talkin' bout our kin
Slap her down again pa
Slap her down again

Now poor old Bess got so darn mad
She ran away one day
To meet that travellin' salesman
With city-slickin' ways
We ran and stood beside them though
With shotguns by our sides
Me and Deke and pa and ma
Who yelled as they came by

Why don't you slap her down again pa
Slap her down again
Yeah, make her tell us more pa
Tell us where she's been
You know that we don't want our neighbors
Talkin' bout our kin
Slap her down again pa
Slap her down again

Now ma and pa they planned for Bess
To marry Deacon Brown
And not that travellin' salesman
Who always came around
They made poor Bessie go to church
Her face was mighty red
The deacon took one look at her
And this is what he said

Slap her down again pa
Slap her down again
Make her tell us more pa
Tell us where she's been
We don't want our neighbors
Talkin' bout our kin
Slap her down again pa
Slap her down again

Doesido

Oh yes hot stuff

Well the moral of this story girls
Is don't stay out too late
Unless you take your shoes off
Outside your pappy's gate
If ma don't hear you comin' in
She won't lay down the law
And you won't have to worry
Cause you won't see much of pa

Slap her down again pa
Slap her down again
Make her tell us more pa
Tell us where she's been
We don't want our neighbors
Talkin' bout our kin
Slap her down again pa
Slap her down again

The kiddie pool must still be closed.

Well my test came out"

Your data suggest little to no automatic preference between White People and Black People.

So what else is new? :-)

Did you mean dying?

UB: There is always time to make things better. And that is what we all strive for. We just thought -- as the young often do -- that we were the ones who were going to "fix" everything. Good to remember that many of the most celebrated American reformers of the last 40 years came from The Silent Generation ... only, really, we weren't all that silent when you think about it.

Jamie,
at least it gives a point of reference, if yours came out differently, one might question the test.

9/11

Doc was brought up higher on the thread. Cannery Row is my favorite of the fiction, but I love Sea of Cortez. It is my natural fondness for "I Was There and I Saw It" books.

Fascinating.

Don't know what you're talking about RA Absurdum. Seems like a lot of honest (or as honest as it's going to get) discussion going on here, with less libel and slander than ever, at least in the time that I've participated. I guess you must be looking for poll citations and links to noquarter. Sorry to rain on your parade.

Thanks to all who approached this topic in earnest. I'm not surprised by those who haven't.

jamie,

Who gave you that test's link?

(Which I'd take as an endorsement of its merit.)

Some number comparisons for the 50's discussion

http://www.businessbookmall.com/Economics_33_Distributing_Income.htm

UB: I have a personal dislike for the half-this or half-that categorization of people. I prefer to try (note that I said try) to think of people as unique individuals.

Now, I have said before -- and will say again -- that I would personally feel more comfortable with Sen Obama if he had spent his formative years in an American public school. (Although granted if it had been in certain areas of the country it might not have worked out all that well). I do feel that the American public school -- for all its flaws -- is the one institution where we have the greatest hope of coming together.

jamie,

Same here, same here!

As I sort of brought up Star Trek earlier, Sea of Cortez had as great an influence on several generation of naturalists, oceanographers, ecologists and more that ST had on engineers, inventors, etc.

Jamie: I still favor Grapes of Wrath.

Addendum: 1950s:

Marlon Brando-"On The Waterfront"
film about mob violence and corruption among longshoreman.

What exactly is a longshoreman?

I think if you are going to refer to a person's genealogy it should be correct.....no matter what the skin color....if that is the topic, why not be truthful about it?

UB

On the emotional part of the test it indicated a slight preference for black. Again not a surprise. By my age if you don't know yourself fairly well, you're in trouble. So when meeting strangers no difference as to preference as human beings, but I also see "different" others as an opportunity for exploring cultural differences or adventures.

Prof Marcia: People who load and unload cargo from ships.
Or, if you lived through the 40s and 50s on the west coast ... a bunch of commie pinkos ... on the east coast, they were considered mobster.

BTW, before the unions came to the film industry, that's the way ordinary workers were hired...on a day to day basis by someone handing out a chit ... it helped if you knew someone or were into bribery.

Prof Marcia

http://www.ilwu.org/ Longshoreman

Long Live the spirit of Harry Bridges

lol Jamie..very true

On the Waterfront with Marlon Brando the world of some longshoreman

Much different now since everything is mechanized
no more hooks

Prof Marcia: One of my most prized possessions -- a photograph of Marlon Brando taken during the filming of On the Waterfront, along with an autograph ... on the reverse of the authograph, my grandfather's notes about his work assignments for the day ... including a reference to "Michael Rennie" --

KGC: Harry Bridges was a folk hero in our home ...

I had no idea it was so late ... time flies when you're having fun. Later.

Harry Bridges was still alive an kicking when I moved to SF. Through a family connection I met him although I got to know Dave Jenkins a lot better, Very amazing people who stood up for their beliefs no matter what,

"Some of us knew that our "grown-ups" didn't particularly want us hanging around with the Chicano kids "

That does bring back a 47 year old memory. Certainly it is not something a black person would agree to today, but it was unfortunately normal then.

A girlfriend and I were going to a party with a group from college. My boyfriend couldn't pick us up so he sent two friends who were black. I was living with my aunt and grandmother in West Covina. Before arriving at my door, the guys got in the back seat and hid while the girlfriend came to the door to get me and we drove off and then traded places a couple of blocks away. At the party we all had a great time, but there was still the awareness that a lot of the older generation would not have been pleased with the crowd. It really was a time of transition.

In case any one is getting the idea I lived all over California, Nevada, Arizona, and New Mexico with a variety of relatives and influences, you are right.

maggisd,

How great that you have a signed photo of Brando. I love that movie
"On The Waterfront," and envy you that you have that wonderful bit of memorabilia. Your grandfather sounds like an interesting guy. Was he an actor or what work did he do on the movie?

Katherine:
Thanks for the link about longshoremen.

9/11

The test link is up above provided by Alicia

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/07/open-thread-thursday.html#comment-116774

Once I saw it I recognized it as one I took several years ago.

jamie,

Alicia has such a remarkable blend of effervescence and substance.

Wow, tolerance.org sure does a great job of vilifying 'white' people. I must be inherently evil due to my skin color, and should be purged of intolerances.

Funny how the posts this evening included Arthur Godfrey and On The Waterfront.

The creators of On The Waterfront were Budd Schulberg and Elia Kazan.

While the story they used was "ripped from the headlines!", their agenda could not have been more different than a standard union story.

Both Schulberg and Kazan were friendly witnesses before HUAC. (Leonard Bernstein, who wrote the score, had been listed in Red Channels but was never blacklisted or summoned as a witness. Many of his peers felt that he provided names privately as he was a notorious backstabber and betrayer of his peers, mentors and secret lovers.)

Each former Communist Party members, Schulberg and Kazan turned the standard union story inside out: the union management was not only against the workers, it would kill them.

The criminal union boss Johnny Friendly stood for them as an embodiment of the bullying, coercive and often criminal communist semi-hegemony in the arts from the thirties through the forties.

Were they rightwingers?

Well, their next collaboration was one inspired in part by Arthur Godfrey's demagogic monopoly of television -- the visionary A Face In The Crowd.

The politics of the Lonesome Rhodes character are arbitrary: the power and wealth identified itself with the right so he became (from being a populist subverting his mattress maker sponsor in TN) the savior of a retired right wing General's sugar pill company.

The reality that inspired this film (like the one which began the storyline of On The Waterfront) were just departure points.

Schulberg and Kazan embody how politics and political actions are not so black and white.

Each dealt with HUAC to save their own necks. But each had things to say to the rotten Dies that were true about the rotten Communist organizers who had their own blacklist running two decades earlier.

Anyone know Kazan's Wild River?

It may be an even greater political (and historical) exploration than either of these two movies.

Netroot nation formerly dkos annual gathering
much of it is being live streamed...

http://www.netrootsnation.com/

Opening speaker General Wesley Clark

Wild River
sexual tension and the TVA

kgc,

First time I saw it was during the mid-seventies.

After the first ten minutes, I forget it wasn't a new release.

Another inconvenient truth down the Obama Memory Hole

"The staggering implications of another embarrassing Obama statement would remain unexplored, with the public record obscured, were it not for a video clip of one of his speeches posted to the web and alert internet journalists. ... what the candidate said in Colorado Springs on July 2nd:

"We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we've set. We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded."

Even if he claims it was poor phrasing, the sweeping nature of the phrase "just as powerful, just as strong" seems to offer some sort of window into the candidate's mind.

If these new civilian security forces ever march into an Obama rally carrying torches, whatever color their shirts ..."

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/07/another_inconvenient_truth_dow_1.html

(Maybe Brown Shirts?)

9/11 survivor (sort of),

I enjoyed your historical narrative about "On The Waterfront." Elia Kazan
always struck me as an extraordinary and complex man. "A Face In The
Crowd" is another masterpiece.

"Schulberg and Kazan embody how politics and political actions are not
so black and white."
Nothing in life is as simple as black or white. That's why I've become
much more a centrist in my thinking, believing that balance is best,
an equal share of liberal and conservative thought.

9/11
Wild River is a beautiful movie and all of the stories fit together so well. The scenes with Remick and Montgomery were amazing. I was just old enough to get it. I was sort of a red diaper baby and my parents were torn between their disgust with Kazan and their appreciation for his work and in particular for this story.

Jimmy Dean sausage gets an earful from Texas...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alXDfnFjGK8

Patsi

Irritates the hell out me too.

LOL

Jack

Great chatter about movies and politics.. . and sausage LOL

Patsi, did you catch that last comment :

" Fuck! I'm going to eat, Goddamit!"

"Patsi, did you catch that last comment : " Fuck! I'm going to eat, Goddamit!"

Ha! I love that guy, Rez....

kgc,

So much to remember about how the film affected me over different screenings.

The first viewing was at a college film night. Among the people I was with was a grad student who let us know that Clift and van Fleet were the identical age when the film was shot.

Kazan was never so emotionally and erotically layered as he was in this film.

About what to think of Kazan...

When I was a teenager, my grandfather's cousin George became an unexpected and beloved presence in the lives of my brother and me.

He never was a member of the Communist Party. Instead, he found it a lot better to go to Mexico and be Trotsky's personal secretary.

Yes, he was with him on the day of the icepick.

If anything George had the soul and the life of the Wobblies.

He also had a knack for getting befriended by good artists.

I remember his twice taking us to play softball in Central Park with his old pals. One game there was a blind man on the mound who still put the ball pretty much over the plate. My brother recognized who he was pretty quickly -- his beloved James T. Farrell.

George knew Kazan for years before that and still was in touch with him.

His take?

Kazan was okay. What he testified about was all true about the leadership which was for shit. As for the naming of names... Kazan named ones he knew who he felt were bastards. Did he have to do that? No. Did those bastards turn on people and do worse than that? Yes.

Who was worse? The stars who didn't know shit and made up names... like the self-proclaimed experts Adolphe Menjou and Robert Taylor.

He felt Kirk Douglas nailed Menjou by casting him as the most corrupt of human beings in Paths of Glory. Douglas next "ended" the blacklist by crediting Dalton Trumbo with his Spartacus screenplay... which, unlike a lot of Trumbo scripts, got thrown out by some of the cast (Olivier, Laughton and Ustinov who wrote and improvised their own scenes).

By the way... there is an excellent movie coming out written by Trumbo's son based on his play about his dad.

David Straithairn (who played Murrow) now moves onto Trumbo.

Is there a "POOPSIE MADE AN OOPSIE!" alert?

Okay, 9/11...after your earlier fabulous post, I'm ashamed to post this...but absolutely have to. I actually think I've heard a version of this before, but I still laughed until tears ran down my face...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5z4Vs26-TI&feature=related

A film about the rise of the National Socialists. ... Adolf Hitler Nazis National Socialists Germany SASS Brownshirts ...

Adolf Hitler - The Seeds of Evil

part one:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=l3wgi5P59Jw

part two:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=dTPEwJs5jas&feature=related

Not unless you're Jonah Goldberg, Daniel Pipes....

Patsi

Oh my gosh that is funny. How do you find these things?

kgc,

Find them?

She makes them!!!!!

Yeppers I'm a member of the Patsi fan club

"Oh my gosh that is funny. How do you find these things?"

KGC -- where else? A friend of mine in Texas sends them to me. Ha

kgc and patsi,

Is someone who condemns a mocks a person because they have religious beliefs -- any religious belief --

Any better than someone who condemns, hates and rejects people for their race or ethnic origin?

Did I take the wrong test? It told me that I am
a chickenshit and prefer democracy to fascism. DUH. I've known that for years.

I saw nothing that mentioned race.

Well 9/11 for $200. I'd have to say no.

To the McBush or McSame crowd:

Time/CNN writer James Carney's "Frenemies" is a look into the strained
relationship between Bush and McCain.

I know a lot of folks like to hold on to the propagandistic notion that these two men are joined at the hip, but many insiders don't agree. . .

"The McCain-Bush Dance"

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1823695,00.html

"In a business of bitter rivalries and awkward alliances, few potential
relationships have been more bitter, awkward or downright tortured
than John McCain's 8 year entanglement with GWBush.

..that's no they are not any better.(.it ate part of my post.)

I'm sure he's the one who advised you that I will die before you do.

Does he also tell you that hepatitis patients should drink?

And that you should smoke everything short of hams and salmon?

Night all!

9/11 -- the two sound pretty much the same to me. Takes me back to a college class in the Reformation. A handful of athiests, a pack on nuns, and me. I never participated in the intense arguments about whether there is a God...when the teacher finally asked me why, I said, "Because I don't give a shit what either of these crowds believe."

Prof Marcia
Thanks for the link. I think it is a pretty good represention of McCain's problems . I' liked that little snipe about the McCain's dinner with George and Laura...

The new authoritarian left and Barack Obama

"I think that hostility to democracy is the danger in the apparent role of the new authoritarian left in the Obama campaign."

"The comments by Obama about bitterness and his inability to demonstrate sympathy with workers in states like Pennsylvania, West Virginia and Kentucky, suggest that ... hostility to such voters from the authoritarian left may be carrying over to the Obama campaign."

http://pundita.blogspot.com/2008/05/new-authoritarian-left-and-barack-obama.html

If it's so private, why do we all know about it

Speaking of stereotypes....I am friends with a Vietnamese woman at work. She is married to a white man. She told me that a lot of people have come up to her and asked if she and her husband met during the war.

Hi Corey
~~~~~~~~~~~
Or maybe they met on a shrimp boat in the La gulf area
:))))))))

My computer repair person is also a firedancer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80gNE_Zxfug

"Obama and his minions carried on for months about honoring the people’s vote.

"Using data from www.sourcewatch.org (superdelegate transparency project), I created the spreadsheet below. PUMAs, this is your list of superdelegates who betrayed Hillary, their constituents, and us, the Democratic voters. There are 190 names below! Are your elected officials on it? Find out! Contact them! Remind them that you don’t have to support them at the ballot box. We need 175 patriots to come to their senses before Denver ... "

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/07/17/action-contact-these-superdelegates/

I think the only funny stereotype I've ever heard was about this woman I worked with who was over 6' tall. New people at work would meet her and ask her, "Did you play basketball?" She would get pissed off. "Why does everybody think that just because I'm tall that I played basketball?!" Any time she would make me mad at work I would have someone ask her if she played basketball. LOL!

" It told me that I am
a chickenshit and prefer democracy to fascism. DUH. I've known that for years."

Bethy -- you are killin' me now!!!

and KGC -- love the firedance!

Corey

Reminds me, My little sister is 6ft On her 21st birthday a bunch of friends tookher out to a bar with a DJ. They got her up on the stage so the crowd could sing happybirthday. The DJ was short5'2 or3. He started making jokes about my sisters size and did the classic "hows the weather up there"
Now, my sister inherited the family smartass gene and she was drunk enough not to give a damn. So she looked down at him and said into the mike. "I don't know, whats it like down there for a shortshit like you" The bar exploded into laughter and cheering all the guy could do was turn red in the face, shutup and play happybirthday.

Jack

""I don't know, whats it like down there for a shortshit like you" The bar exploded into laughter and cheering all the guy could do was turn red in the face, shutup and play happybirthday."

Your sister shoots and scores!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Patsi
I send the prank call to my brother. I think he is planning to unblock his phone line so he can try it out.

dog's eye..I drove over to Lincoln City..only an hour from Salem....had lunch at Moe's.., shopped a little, and came home. Gorgeous day!

Everyone should drive the Oregon coast sometime in their life..

Mo's not Moe's

Corey

I had a chance to marry an Asian girl once. But you know the more I think about it , that is probably a story I should write up for Lardo's retreat.

Jack

link spammers who comment on the off chance they might get some traffic as a consequence of their comment (sometimes these fall into the first category..hard to tell) and trolls, who make it their business to criticize anything written and the people who wrote it, in some sort of sad attempt at self validation by being nasty towards others for the sake of it. Like taking drugs, trolling is a poor mistress that demands more and more to feed the self satisfying addiction that props up their self esteem.

Allison Krauss - When You Say Nothing At All

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P4l1b0KR3M

Whiskey Lullaby live Brad Paisley Allison Krauss

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CigNPSIxVxk

OD
My favorite Oregon coastal town is Cannon Beach although the whole is wonderful

If one posts the same comments on mulitple web sites doesn't that make one a troll.

The measure, if passed by a majority of voters, would rename the Oceanside Water Pollution Control Plant the George W. Bush Sewage Plant. McConnell said the intent is to remember the Bush administration and what the group sees as the president's mistakes, including the war in Iraq.

Some people aren't laughing, including the San Francisco Republican Party, which sees the measure as an embarrassment, even to this famously-liberal city. Chairman Howard Epstein has vowed to fight the measure with all means available to him.

A White House spokeswoman, when asked about the measure several weeks ago, refused to comment.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/17/MN7A11QU1S.DTL&tsp=1

The measure has collected enough signatures to qualify for the ballot.

"send the prank call to my brother. I think he is planning to unblock his phone line so he can try it out."

Perfect! I've got a nephew who would appreciate that, now that I think of it....

"A White House spokeswoman, when asked about the measure several weeks ago, refused to comment. "

heh, heh....

KGC
Isn't it a plant that is designed to turn shit into benign stuff and not screw up and turn the world to shit and a pit of toxic waste.

Could be a jinx ya know.

Jack

My friend was introduced to his wife by his friend's wife. Both women are from Vietnam. My friend is a great photographer and has taken a recent trip to Vietnam for a family wedding.
Wanna see some pictures from modern-day Vietnam?

http://www.vnphotogallery.com/

Larry Craig explains what's wrong with our energy policy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vqANJCATrE

Bonnie Raitt - Angel from Montgomery
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5HpW1Sula8

Goin' out easy , night all

Jack

I am throwing this out since the talk included medicine here...anyone ever taken Suldar for B/P issues?
Doc switched me from Lisinopril yesterday...a half hour after taking the Suldar I was walking the dogs, and I was a quarter mile from my car...heart began pounding in my chest, my head was feeling the same. I wondered if I could make it back to the car OK, which I did...this feeling lasted FOUR HOURS and at one point I had my hand on the phone ready to call an ambo.
Tomorrow I have an appointment and I am NOT taking any more of this stuff , I hope!!

Smoke 'em if you got 'em.

Have a nice weekend all.

To all of you who suffer chronic pain, I just found this on MSN: hope it
is of interest.

http://health.msn.com/health-topics/pain-management/articlepage.aspx?cp-documentid=100204116>1=31035

Damn I left the tv on while I typed my last rant, and heard that Ricky Gervais is on David Letterman -----
and now I have to sstay up and watch it!!!!!

posting this just to be #500....

NEW THREAD