Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Sniper

Craig,

Considering that the American public is more willing to watch a show like Wipeout, where people are hit in the groin, or get punched in the face, or bounce in the mud instead of taking a minute to really learn about candidates.

The fact that Obama is having to whore himself to the Christian right or Scalia assents, tells us the shit's creak we are already battling in the country...paddles or no paddles

Now lets try a coherent thought.

So long as McCain and the RNC can keep the focus on Obama as an individual, they will have a chance to win the election. If the focus of the campaign falls on McCain or the issues, McCain loses by a landslide.

Unfortunately, that sets us up for the most annoying election season of our lifetimes.

It's not annoying if you ignore it.

Craig you forgot about the dubious birth certificate story, GORDO will feel left out!

If it's on issues McC loses in a landslide? It seems to me that the evil OHbama changes his stance on any "issue" as it pops up and in the direction of how the wind blows on that particular day.

McC is far from perfect but if people were intelligent enough before they vote to really care about the issues, then they should be scared to death about (everything) related to the empty suit Ohbama.

His stance is "change" and "hope". Sadly and embarassingly that seems to be enough for a lot of thin minded people in this country.

Good TM & good hair, as usual.

Craig, do you have a flag? ;-)

tt

If the election were held today it sure would be an electoral college landslide. But hey with Cindy McCain's credit rating maybe she can buy him a small country after the election and he can play at being president all he wants.

http://www.electoral-vote.com/

from last thread:

"Turns out you baby boomers were full of s--t. . ."
posted by champ

Just for your information, Obama is a baby boomer, even though he likes to pretend he's about 25.

Boomer birth years: 1946-1964

Hey Jamie,

When you log on--just want to thank you for the great sneaky snake link!! I love it.

I'm trying to decide who else has earned that title.

BJ,

I say that only because McCain is in the position that HRC was in...the experience position. He is supposed to have better command of the issues and the media gives him a pass whenever he changes his position with the political winds.

Even though people see that McCain is a hero and has all the experience, he can only manage a tie right now. As the economy and Afghanistan become bigger issues, they will work against McCain.

Bush's economy is a mess. Many on Wall Street won't mind their taxes going up if it will help.

Afghanistan will be a huge issue since it's getting steadily worse there. Even with Iraq improving, the fact that the Taliban, the group who sheltered Bin Laden, have been allowed to regain their pre 9/11 strength is nothing but an embarrassment to Bush and since McCain hitched his wagon to him, it hurts him as well...

That is, if common sense prevails...and that's asking a lot from this electorate.

Why is BO hiding the hard copy BC and COLB? The net COLBs were photoshopped.

Craig,

In reference to your video--I believe one of the reasons Obama is over
zealous about proclaiming his Christianity is partly because of the Reverend Wright debacle. All that Black Liberation philosophy makes average folks in
Ohio nervous.

Well done video, Craig, as usual. What I'm concerned about in all of these defenses is that progressives, including myself, will lose faith (no pun intended) in the statements and the policy implications of Obama's oratory defenses. The move to the center and beyond is happening very quickly. And, we've got to remember there are still two steps to the presidency -- the first is in August in Denver and then the second step in November. I hope the winner of the primaries doesn't lose his supporters and delegates in August much less in November. Turning off the left to win the center and the right before the conventions is a very risky strategy for Senator Obama, IMHO. I hope his advisors know what they're doing!

I could care less about that church...they don't represent any brand of Christianity that I would practice. That being said, God forbid that a group of black folks who are sick and tired of the shit sandwich they got from the country at large, decide to speak out against it.

It's ironic that the biggest fear in South Africa when Mandella became President was that he would lead the ANC's retribution for apartheid. He basically did the opposite and that's why that country flourished while a place like Zimbabwe has plunged into chaos because of those policies.

I bring this up because what the black community wants is an apology for what was done to them and a truly level playing field so that there is true opportunity for economic advancement. If you continue to deprive people of it, don't be shocked when they start talking about taking it...

I don't think it's a coincidence that in Memphis, you still hear people saying "I am a man"

Obama's move to the middle is very predictable. They all head for the middle and then do what they're gonna do when they're elected.

And that's politics.

tt

Obama's "move to the middle" leaves us with really no good reason to nominate him..

Experience..No
Courage..No
New Politics..No,that was a sham

Wake up fellow Democrats..We need to win this election with someone who is ready on day one to be President..Senator Hillary Clinton

"(3) The GOP doesn't believe Obama or McCain will be the nominees -- and that Hillary Clinton has something up her sleeves to pull off a Denver upset, while McCain is ousted in the previously mentioned palace coup."

http://hillbuzz.blogspot.com/2008/07/something-really-fishy-is-happening.html

OD,

How can you be ready to lead on day one when you can't manage a successful campaign when you enter it with a 2 to 1 money advantage and you're polling far better than any opponent?

I have said time and time again that I knew in 2006 that HRC would not win the nomination. She spent $36 million to run for Senate reelection. Clinton spent $36 million for her reelection, more than any other candidate for Senate in the 2006 elections. "She was criticized by some Democrats for spending too much in a one-sided contest, while some supporters were concerned she did not leave more funds for a potential presidential bid in 2008.[230] In the following months she transferred $10 million of her Senate funds toward her presidential campaign.[231]"

She and McCain may be great policy people but they appear to be poor managers. Both had money issues with their campaigns. Obama may be new to the scene but he didn't run out of money, he had a better plan that he executed successfully.

I don't care that he lacks political experience because I think he's demonstrated that he has practical experience and it's my opinion that practical will be more important.

GORDO.

#1 would seem the most plausible when you consider that every bit of favorable spin of McCain's lineup change is that the new guy worked for Cheney and is a fighter.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/opinions/cartoonsandvideos/telnaes/telnaes_main.html?nav=slate

For some reason, Marcia, it seems you are under the mistaken impression that I am an Obama supporter. I voted for him in the primary, just to do my small part to keep the Clintons out of the White House, into which they will weasel their way , regardless.

I've done nothing but criticize Obama since he secured the nomination.
I'm all about Ron Paul. Write that down.

I stand by my previous assertion about baby boomers. Country Joe still keeps it real, though. Unless he's dead. He was still keeping it real the last I heard from him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0jxHB3E710

"bring this up because what the black community wants is an apology for what was done to them and a truly level playing field so that there is true opportunity for economic advancement. If you continue to deprive people of it, don't be shocked when they start talking about taking it...

I don't think it's a coincidence that in Memphis, you still hear people saying "I am a man"

Bear -- your money quote is "I am a man".....

I'd like an apology for every woman who has been beaten, molested, raped, mutilated, murdered, sold, and owned since human beings started emerging from primordial slime. And I'd like the perps prosecuted instead of being sent home "to sin no more" and a level economic playing field.

As Ms. B so often says, "I'm just sayin'...."

*yawns*

God this is tedious, good night.

I couldn't get onto the internet last night. We had thunderstorms here yesterday afternoon. I don't think I missed much. I am now off work until the 20th. Send money. LOL!

"Selling out sometime? Okay. Selling out all the time? Not."

HuffPo tackles the issue: Is Barack selling out?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/20080702/cm_huffpost/110411;_ylt=AuvPvy8q.ePyAfj_wGIDxGSs0NUE

Hello champ,

Now, that you mention it, I do recall you emailing me Ron Paul links.

Well. in my defense, you did support Obama in the primary, so I'm not that
far off base. You have to admit, it's difficult to keep track of who everyone is
supporting, since many of Craig's bloggers have changed throughout
the process.

There are the stanch Obama idealists who would vote for Obama
no matter what. Then, there are those who voted for Obama in the primary but are already disillusioned and are now for Ron Paul or Ralph Nadar. Then, there are the people who voted for Hillary, but are now Obama fans. Or those who are undecided, still. There are those Dems who have gone completely to the otherside and are actively working for McCain. And there's my group, those PUMA folks who have disdain for the DNC, the media & Obama so we aren't voting for anyone, maybe we'll write in Hillary or perhaps some of us will consider McCain.

I try to keep track, but it makes me dizzy sometimes.

The question we need to ask is will Obama turn out to be your version of Neville Chamberlain ??

Chamberlain was a patriot to. But he took the wrong path in dealing with Hitler.

He came back and said, "We will have peace in our time" and tens of millions died.

VJ Machiavelli
http://www.vjmachiavelli.blogspot.com
ps.This election is all about shoes, yes shoes do we keep them on or do we take them off and never put them on again when we board a plane. it's that simple. On shoes or off shoes

McCain.

Here’s the question :

If he has all this experience ( It’s his second trip through the presidential ringer)
Why has his organization fallin’ on it;s ass twice ? This is not the mark of a “Plucky Fighter” .... It’s the mark of a man who can’t even run something he learned 8 years ago.

And if he can't run that. How can he run the greatest mess ever created by the mind of man ?
IE : The federal government.

On the other hand, how can a "phony" smash the money machine that grips our process ... with no "experience ".

Defeat the one of the two great political dynasties of the last quarter century.

Gee ...
Sounds like the great "American Story" is running for president.
No "Phony" has ever come from a single parent house-hold, with a mixed race background, got into Harvard, ( On scholarships) Graduated at the top of his class, Turned down Wall Street , and gone to the green pastures just north of Gary, Indiana.

Yep, he's out foxed us all.

"Rising up out of the mash potatoes and gravy"

" has ever come from a single parent house-hold"

How long was his mother a single parent? When did she dump him on her parents? How did they afford private schools if they were such poverty cases?

I was a single mother....doesn't sound like my world.

Maybe Obama can out think Osama ?

What's what wins the battle ... One never defeats one's opponent
One out thinks one's opponent.

"Rising up out of the mash potatoes and gravy"

I still read and hear over and over the "what's the matter with those damned women" meme re: some women who aren't coming "back to the fold."

Here's a straight ahead message from a Salon reader:

"I'm thoroughly, overwhelmingly sick of being told that I have to be a good little girl and vote Democratic because if I don't those nasty, nasty Republican men will take away my right to have an abortion. Meanwhile, Democrats across the nation are letting the Republicans strip away our right to choose to have an abortion because they are so afraid of being voted out of office by a middle that is ambivalent about abortion. Stop trying to conflate the sexism with whether or not we will vote for Obama. Sexism against Clinton is a separate issue from whether people who did not vote for Obama in the primaries will do so in the GE. Don't simply dismiss it because you think it doesn't matter - it matters no matter who you support in the GE. It matters no matter what happens in the GE. It Matters because sexism is wrong and needs to be addressed, irrelevant of it's impact on the election."

"I still read and hear over and over the "what's the matter with those damned
women" meme re: some women who aren't coming "back to the fold."

posted by Patsi

Invalidated and patronized by our own party.

Oh, Flatus -- when you are up and around. After reading about those pilots taken hostage in Columbia, I see why my aunt was so upset the whole time my cousin (the Navy pilot) was flying drug surveillance around Central America and in the Gulf of Mexico!

prof m: "it's difficult to keep track of who everyone is
supporting"
what's with all this name-tags requirement lately? some people just don't fit into or want to be made to fit into someone else's idea of reality.
the changing flow of thoughts from unknown springs of wisdom make for the beauty of craig's blog, eerially mysterious in its way.

Glenn Greenwald fisks the Obama response on FISA

Wednesday July 2, 2008 12:31 EDT
Obama advisor Greg Craig: Adding insult to injury

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/07/02/obama_fisa/index.html

And even Kos has some harsh words re: FISA:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/7/1/05546/22532/562/544544

Obama’s latest ad repeats an often-stated claim, saying he "worked his way through college and Harvard Law.”
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/obamas_work_claim.html

Actually I was always much more interested in how he paid for for his alleged cocaine and marijuana use when he was a teenage in Hawaii? Oh just another great mystery of life.

A Denver upset with Hil'ry as the nom: From your keyboard to God's monitor. Keep hope alive; Hil'ry '08!
(No flaming tildes of sarcasm. I am praying that she manages to get into the WH.)

Happy 4th!

When will the DNC realize that letting BO copy off of Hil'ry's test paper will not win over those of us who want the best person (and not the best impersonator) in the WH?

Patsi,

Your post about your cousin flying drug surveillance made me think of someone who I haven't thought of in sometime.

DEA agent Meredith Thompson, who was killed in a plane crash, 1994, during a reconnaissance mission near Santa Lucia, Peru.

John Ridley on MSNBC just claimed McCain's being in Columbia was no accident and that it belied that idea the US does not negotiation with terrorists.

MSNBC seems to be taking very seriously the idea of being the FOX news of the left.

Ok Craig. I know you were just pointing out how silly that sleeper cell idea is. The belief among some, if I'm understanding that rumor correctly, that he's a figurehead of some kind of sleeper cell. You ask, if someone wanted to do this, why would they do it with someone of mixed race named Obama. Why not McCain.

If the 'sleeper cell' theory were (somewhat) true, then I think choosing Obama makes perfect sense. Those behind the idea (would) want to win. They want someone who is malleable. Someone who has the ability to mesmerize the people. Someone who can attract the groups that are absolutely essential in order to win. This would have been perfectly planned and executed. And the key players would have been in place early on.

"A clandestine cell structure is a method for organizing a group in such a way that it can more effectively resist penetration by an opposing organization."

If they haven't done that, what have they done.

MSNBC seems to be taking very seriously the idea of being the FOX news of the left.

MSNBC as a whole is listed as #33 in the cable ratings. If that is the case, and FOX has the Right in their corner, where else can MSNBC go? They have pretty much painted themselves into the Left's corner.

Colombia, South America

Columbia, South Carolina

Colombia, South America

Columbia, South Carolina

Is the question which one has more terroists and people being held hostage :)

Patsi, Fry,

Back in the middle '70s I was the AF intelligence superintendent for Latin America. It was the most interesting job of my career. 'nuff said.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/07/clark-wins-vp-madness-for-dems.html#comment-110147

Bethyboo,
You hit another home run last night. Your post said it all.
.........................

"For some reason, I have trouble compromising all those false ideals I was taught throughout childhood and adolescence and it's causing me internal conflict. " Posted by: champ | July 2, 2008 11:12 PM

Champ, well said. I get your point.

The best new term of season so far :

"Low information voters"

Didn't we used to these guys "Stupid people" ?

The best new term of season so far :

"Low information voters"

Didn't we used to call these guys "Stupid people" ?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
down here in SC we called them republicans.

We also had a "Spare Obama".

Maybe A little birdie told him to go to Colmbia at this time. But timing is everything and the new GAllup poll show the race getting closer. What happen to Obama 10 to 15 point lead. Obama is change his postions so fast the media can't keep up with him. If he keeps this up Their might be a revolution he Denver if McCain gains the lead and pulls ahead.

VJ Machiavelli
http://www.vjmachiavelli.blogspot.com
ps.This election is all about shoes, yes shoes do we keep them on or do we take them off and never put them on again when we board a plane. it's that simple. On shoes or off shoes

"Low information voters"
Didn't we used to these guys "Stupid people" ?
Posted by: Dutton Peabody | July 3, 2008 8:31 AM

Dutton, I agree with the 'low information' but not with the stupid people.

It may be easy to get information, but it sure is difficult to get the truth.

I'll tell you what, Lynn, Sturg, I'm in Columbia. Lynn's comment is not so far off. We are the home of the terminally stupid.

Last month we had the run-off Democratic primary for County Clerk. Because of no Republican participation, the winning Democrat in the primary was elected to the office.

Despite the strongest endorsement possible for one candidate, the incumbent who had held the job for years; and, rejection of the other candidate as being totally unqualified for the job, which is basically technical and quite important for the smooth running of the county government, guess who the voters chose?

Yes, they chose the woefully unqualified one.

This article is in this morning's The State newspaper:
http://www.thestate.com/local/story/450853.html

I believe the election was a predictable result of the climate that was generated in South Carolina in the period leading up to, and following, the presidential primary.

Damned shame.

If that is the case, and FOX has the Right in their corner, where else can MSNBC go? They have pretty much painted themselves into the Left's corner. Posted by: FryDaddy

Fox is no where near as slanted as MSNBC. (IMHO)

One conspiracy theory is that the public, by a combination of methods, has been conditioned to reject the idea of conspiracies.

The First Declaration of Independence
What de Bolla calls "the intricate history of the nation's founding document" does not and should not inhibit Americans from asserting the truth that their nation originated on July 4, 1776. They hold that to be a self-evident truth, which means they have decided to believe it, thereby making it a self-validating tradition. So there.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/07/the_first_declaration_of_indepe.html

One conspiracy theory is that the public, by a combination of methods, has been conditioned to reject the idea of conspiracies. Posted by: GORDO | July 3, 2008 8:50 AM

Gordo,
And called "conspiracy theorists" if we don't reject the idea of conspiracies. And they always mean that in a negative way.

Before moving to Charlotte, NC, I use to live in Columbia, SC for 4 years. If not the hottest place on earth it has to come in a close second. USC football, Sandy's Hotdogs, Lizard's Thicket, Maurice's Piggy Park BBQ, Lake Murray, and gas is a good 10 cents a gallon cheaper there than in NC. I love Columbia, SC.

Chole,
"Fox is no where near as slanted as MSNBC. (IMHO)"

Fox's news department is very fair, even the major Ds will admit ti that fact. The other shows are what they are.

PLUS Columbia, SC has the second largest St. Patrick's Day celebration in the South. Savannah, GA is #1.

harbor and i have been batting around Southern Fried + 6 lately, a book of short stories about Columbia SC by wm price fox......but the HEAT of Columbia is a recurring facet of those stories.....just the ungodly heat of that place....

mornin' all.

patd - the only thing people are asking of others wrt the name issue is that they take and stick with a name that others here will recognize. Some here use their real full names, some use their real first name, some use an alias, but as long as they are consistent, at least we get to know them and know when they're posting. The big gripe here has been the use of "anonymous" since anyone can use that and there can be numerous folks posting under that moniker, or single use drive-by aliases, although they can be entertaining.

Columbia - oh, that reminds me, my Canadian friends' daughter goes to Columbia, is trying to make either the Cannadian of US Olympic team. Wonder if she met McNN there?

Hello SC fans. Just got back from a family vacation to Pawleys Island area. We enjoyed ocean breezes throughout, plus one technicolor thunderstorm.

But can imagine the heat away from the coast!

A Happy July 4th tomorrow to all.

Nick, that was a GREAT find.

For those who don't know The Guardian, it is probably the most honest of Great Britain's fine old newspapers. To my knowledge it is the only one not controlled by major business interests.

When I was a youngster, The Manchester Guardian was a definitive source for timely, accurate reflections of British thought.

Flatus: how were you reading the Guardian as a youngster? Were you raised abroad? That's interesting.

Dog, you can imagine our electric bill, too! I'm glad you had a good visit. Here, Stinky and I have planted many trees hoping to make the heat less onerous--it seems to work. And, we have large picture windows overlooking our woods. So, if we are in our bedroom, breakfast room or the main get-together room (I've always though 'great room' sounded pretentious, so I don't use the term. Anyone have a good alternative? Family room doesn't seem to fit. Living room is really close for this transplant, but has a somewhat different meaning in the Old South.) so we feel as if we are outdoors even though we're not. Oh, and we have microphones that pick-up the sounds of nature and pipe them into the house so it sounds just as if the windows were open on a nice Spring day.

Dog, I went to an Eastern prep school that was somewhat enlightened.

sturgeone,

wm price fox, knew what he was writing about. Columbia sits in a sort of bowl where there is little air flow to move the heat, plus what really makes it bad is the humidity. I think that is why the US Army made Ft. Jackson a training facility. A typical Columbia weather report during the summer, Today's hi will be 95, with 95% humidity. Myself and a SLED agent coined a term for the women folk of Columbia, "The Classic Columbia Look". This was back in the early to mid 80's, a good number of the female population at that time all looked alike, all dressed alike, all wore the same jewelry, had the same hairstyle, make-up. Sort of reminded me of something out of the Stepford Wives. It is the only place I have ever witnessed women shopping at the local food markets dressed as thought they were getting ready to go out on the town. The other thing about Columbia is the median age has to be somewhere about 31.

OK I just heard about this on C-span, this is Obama's answer to THE internet smears challenging his birth-and it ties in with Craig's topic

http://my.barackobama.com/page/invite/birthcert

Nick, that was a GREAT find.

For those who don't know The Guardian, it is probably the most honest of Great Britain's fine old newspapers. To my knowledge it is the only one not controlled by major business interests.

Posted by: Flatus | July 3, 2008 9:13 AM

I agree ! The article was terrific. Funny thing is, the leftists who used these tactics will not see the irony of what they have done. Sadly, it IS done, so we are basically left with Obama or McCain. I'm voting for Obama... McCain doesn't deserve my vote.

Kathy,

This is what I said the other day. BHO was born in Hawaii, a sate of the US, his mother was a US citizen, so BHO is a US citizen. This is not rocket science.

Kathy, the certificate is at the heart of Gordo's angst. He claims it doesn't meet the criteria for normally issued certificates. The questions would be satisfied if the registrar of births would prepare a statement saying "yes, indeed, Mr Obama was indeed born in this great state".

Doing a little catch up. According to the College Board, tuition in an in-state 4 year college averages just south of $12,000 per year, with Private colleges averaging about $27,700. The $6K figure in Patsi's link from last night came from the Higher Education Coordinating Board of Washington State, and here's the link.

http://www.hecb.wa.gov/paying/collegecosts/collegecostsindex.asp

College in WA is cheap.

Watch out Flatus! You put out another notice that you're preparing a BBQ and I will come down for the good food and to see the house besides! Good idea about the microphones for bird and cricket sounds. Better ambient noise than a TV blaring 24/7.

Trees are great. We have two large shady ones on either side of the deck -- they have KO'd the backyard grass, but the shade means we can enjoy the deck all day and night unless thunderstorms or mosquitos materialize. The trees even hold back light rain.

Pogo
I find totally different numbers

Public 4 year college 2005-06
Tuition(in state) $5351
total + room and board, $12108

http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d06/tables/dt06_320.asp

Jack

Dog, I was fixing to make some bean soup yesterday. Stinky pulled a out a couple of the bones from the barbecue that we had frozen. Decided not to use them because the smoke flavor would have overshadowed the delicate bean flavor that I look for in a good soup.

Next time, I'll try to give more notice.

And, your backyard sounds great!

BTW
The link I posted above also give a state by state break down of college costs.
http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d06/tables/dt06_320.asp

Jack

Re: the Obama BC, If you'll note on it, you can see a faint bleed through of what appears to be a stamp that was on the back of it - probably the date the certificate was issued. It says (in reverse) June 6, 2007. Although I can't see any evidence of a raised seal - I'm not sure you could see it in this type image anyway - it looks pretty much like what an official one would look like once it was imaged and published on the internets. I don't know about you guys, (except for you Gordo, and I know where you stand on the issue) but this is good enough for me to put this non issue to bed. Like I've said, if anyone suggests he was born anywhere other than Honolulu on 8/4/61, why hasn't anyone come up with any evidence to suggest that?

Now the FISA reversal - that's worth talking about.

Ah! Our son-in-law just called reporting that our daughter made it through her disc surgery in fine shape with no complications, etc. She'll spend the night in the hospital and then come here so that Stinky can minister to her. I'm much relieved.

Re: Birth certificate- I think everyone here save one knows the deal about this.

Jose Antonio Vargas has been deflecting internet rumors for the past hour on c-span-

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
When I can't fall asleep at night I listen to WBZ in Boston- usually I liek the host but last night was a sub- he would not let of the Renee Marie story! It was amazing- he was so clearly trying to get people to say her rendition=Obama=black takeover of America. People were not biting. If I had not been 90% asleep I would have called-

Amazing that this is trying to be made an issue- and all I could think was is Hillary, or Michelle, or Theresa has half million in monthly credit cards that would have been all we heard-

It will be interesting if that story becomes bigger- esp. in light of :who would you rather have a beer with" and all that being so important to many

Pogo, Gordo said that when someone took the image of the certificate apart, the seal was layered onto the certificate. That, raised additional concerns.

the birth certificate, like the michelle whitey tape is just something Gordo uses to keep his hand in while waiting for something real.......

(I tried to keep this post as brief as possible.)

The Obama site is misleading. Where is the proof that he was born in the US. His father was not a US citizen. This is why BO's BC info is important.
==================================
"There's only one way for Obama to show he's a natural born citizen eligible to be President: produce the paper proof. If there's a seal and a signature, no problem, he qualifies.

Whether from popular pressure or a legal challenge to his credentials, it is essential that Obama be forced to release for objective analysis the birth certificate he claimed in own book to possess."

http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/12944.htm
==================================
"All persons born in the United States are citizens of the United States ... One of the most complicated areas of US citizenship law involves the passage of citizenship to children born outside the US to one or more US citizen parents. ... there is one important office that only natural born citizens can hold – the presidency ...

What are the rules for people born between December 23, 1952 and November 13, 1986?

When one parent was a US citizen and the other a foreign national, the US citizen parent must have resided in the US for a total of 10 years prior to the birth of the child, with five of the years after the age of 14."

http://www.visalaw.com/05jan1/2jan105.html
==================================
"Because Barack's mother -- born November 29, 1942 -- bore him at the age of 18 years, eight months plus, she could not possibly qualify for the five year requirement."

From the first link.

Back in the middle '70s I was the AF intelligence superintendent for Latin America. It was the most interesting job of my career. 'nuff said.
Posted by: Flatus | July 3, 2008 8:27 AM

now that we know, does he have to kill us?

Pogo, "name-tags" referred to mandating disclosure of whom a crawdad supports. sorry for the mis-read.

Patsi- saw you posted this:

How long was his mother a single parent? When did she dump him on her parents? How did they afford private schools if they were such poverty cases?

I was a single mother....doesn't sound like my world.

Posted by: Patsi Author Profile Page | July 3, 2008 6:22 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Not sure on all of it, but I know that Barack was a scholarship student in Hawaii- I attended a private college with almost full assistance due to my family income- but a public one would cost more.

AI don't think this is so unusual. Remember that Bill Clinton was raised by his grands from the age of 1-3

Responding to Patsi at 6:22 this morning: " has ever come from a single parent house-hold"

How long was his mother a single parent? When did she dump him on her parents? How did they afford private schools if they were such poverty cases?

I was a single mother....doesn't sound like my world.
=============

Patsi: quick response from Wikipedia on (Stanley) Ann Dunham, Obama's mother -- BHO answered this in greater depth in "Dreams."

Obama was born in 1961, when his mother was 18.

..."
A few years later, Dunham met an Indonesian student, Lolo Soetoro (ca. 1936-1987), at the East-West Center on the University of Hawaii campus.[9] They married in 1967 and moved to Jakarta, Indonesia after the unrest surrounding the ascent of Suharto ....

In Indonesia, Dunham enriched her son's education with correspondence courses in English, recordings of Mahalia Jackson, and speeches by the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. When the young Obama asked to return to Hawaii for upper school rather than stay in Asia with her she agreed, despite the decision being painful for her.[2] In 1971, at the age of 10, Barack was sent back to Honolulu to live with his maternal grandparents, where he attended the prestigious Punahou School.

Madelyn Dunham's job as a vice-president at The Bank of Hawaii helped pay the steep tuition,[12] with some assistance from a scholarship.[13]"

from wikipedia.org

==============

Obama writes of his mother waking him at 4:30 a in Indonesia, before school for him and work for her, to go over correspondence classwork. He did not appreciate her efforts at the time; she reminded him that the work was no picnic for her either.

=====

I realize you have raised your children very well on your own, for the most part.

And am sure you will appreciate the efforts another mother put into raising her child, and making sure he had the best education possible.

Flatus: "Back in the middle '70s I was the AF intelligence superintendent for Latin America. It was the most interesting job of my career"

I'll bet! What a tangle of events you must have witnessed.

Pogo,

"he was born anywhere other than Honolulu on 8/4/61, why hasn't anyone come up with any evidence to suggest that?"

Actually that wasn't Gordo's position. Gordo's take had to do with BHO's mother being married to a foreign national, and because she gave birth to little BHO just short of the so called minimum 5 year requirement. Now that may hold water, no pun intended, if BHO's mother had been residing outside the us for more than 5 years, married a foreign national, became pregnant and had a baby. But I don't know of any birth taking place within the US, by a US citizen where the child born would not be considered a US citizen. That just can't happen.

Jack, it obviously varies some from source to source - I suspect that the figures I extracted from the College Board I mentioned above included room and board(and I probably got it wrong saying they were just tuition and fees) and were from their college cost calculator, which would be about what the NCES figures would reflect when those costs are averaged in. The numbers from WA I cited were estimates for 2007-08, so they would be a little higher - probably about 5% or more, than the ICES numbers you provided.

The College Board numbers - here is the link to the numbers they currently put on their website.

http://www.collegeboard.com/parents/csearch/know-the-options/21385.html

All of the sources seem pretty much in the same ballpark when tuition, fees, room and board are considered. The figure in the chart Patsi linked obviously referred only to tuition and fees.

GORDO,

People will not pay attention to your story until an AMERICAN NEW AGENCY reports on it.

Patsi, with regards to this post, http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/07/obamas-smear-offensive.html#comment-110209

Do you know the significance of the "I am a man" quote? That was what was written on the strike placards of the sanitation workers in Memphis, TN.

http://www.reuther.wayne.edu/man/1intro.htm

This is the event that drew Martin Luther King to Memphis, created the environment for his famous swan song, "The Mountaintop speech" and his assassination.

However badly you feel white women have had it in this country, I'm not sure how you can argue that they had it worse than these workers.

Clinton may have been treated poorly, but did she get treatment that was worse than what Republicans would do? I don't think so. Also, it doesn't rationalize that if she were the invincible, perfect candidate for president, she wouldn't have run a poor campaign, based on poor planning and faulty assumptions.

I keep in contact with a lot of people back in RI who were huge Hillary supporters. They are self made millionaires who grew up in tough working class neighborhoods. They said that it was easy to see that Obama wanted to win more than Clinton. These are people that still keep Bill's picture on their walls, next to whomever is the pope.

I'll be the first to tell you that he seems to be believing all the hype but HRC supporters act like she was Joan of Arc when she was really more like Santa Evita...

So McCain announces his new JOBS FIRST economic plan today…while in Mexico, on a day where we learned we lost 62,000 jobs last month?? Now, that's some kind of message discipline . . .

http://bourbonroom.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/07/03/62000-jobs-lost-in-june-jobless-rate-55-obama-and-mccain-react/

FryDaddy,

Your last post was well stated and is the reason why I think the MSM has paid the story no mind.

Were that to be used against Obama, wouldn't that present a viable solution for dealing with some segment of the illegals being born here?

Craig,

I saw my first McCain ad last night, it aired on Lifetime, during the Golden Girls...that can't be good.

For all the talk about Obama being light on solutions, all McCain offered was, we need more jobs, fix foreclosures, yada yada yada. He did offer one thought on what to do or mention that many of his advisers are profiting from the messes he wishes to fix.

What kind of buzz is this getting in the beltway?

They've been playing McCain ads here for weeks. They just started playing Obama ads here within the last week.

flatus, that may be true or it may not. I'm sure that Gordo's source is just a totally believable photoshop techie geek with no axe to grind (insert flaming tildes of sarcasm here), but I have to laugh when "someone" does stuff that gets laid out onto the internets and it gets picked up as truth by as in this case conspiracy theorists who oppose him, repeated ad nauseum to try and get traction, and more importantly, isn't backed up by any evidence suggesting that the facts reflected in the document are false. Without more, even if the document is a complete forgery, the absence of that as a piece of evidence of his birth there does not prove or tend to prove that he wasn't born there. The problem with this issue is that what should, if true, be the start of an investigation into the issue is being held up as the answer to the question. Like I said, if he wasn't born in Hawaii, where's ANY evidence suggesting he was born somewhere else? This isn't that hard.

Craig, it is a strange place to announce a jobs first progam. Maybe he's down there to visit the Fender plant where Stratocasters are made in Mexico by Mexicans instead of the California plant where Strats are made in America by Mexicans.

"BHO was born in Hawaii, a sate of the US, his mother was a US citizen, so BHO is a US citizen. This is not rocket science."

Exactly, Fry. I don't see why this has ever been an issue -- just as McCain birth should not have been, considering his father was military. I was just looking over my old 1969 passport, which has my infant daughter's photo added with a statement about her birth.

A funny aside. I showed it to my 2-year old grandaughter, who was irritated that I suggested that her mommy was "my" baby, and that her mommy had even ever BEEN a baby.

"MSNBC Recants on Release
TVNEWSER __ It's no secret networks may take a little...creative license when it comes to ratings releases. But yesterday's MSNBC release about Hardball with Chris Matthews' June win at 5pmET caused MSNBC to admit it was, "an error."Although the release touts a Hardball win, the program actually finished third."

http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/msnbc/msnbc_recants_on_release_88401.asp

Bear,

"Were that to be used against Obama, wouldn't that present a viable solution for dealing with some segment of the illegals being born here?"

My point exactly. This whole story is much to do about nothing which is similar to much of the blather coming from all sides these days.

"Now the FISA reversal - that's worth talking about."

Couldn't agree more, Pogo. Obama's claims of being a new kind of politician are my problem. And I'll admit that part of that problem is because he nailed Hillary with the same old-same old tag when he was no different. But all this other stuff is BS.

I get very few of those emails these days because I've pissed all my Republican friends off. (Except for the ones who have had it with Bush and voted for Hillary in the TN primary....they're still speaking to me.)

opps,

""Although the release touts a Hardball win, the program actually finished third."

MSNBC is looking more and more like the little child who has to invent stuff just to get noticed. Look at me, look at me, I'm Chris Matthews, I went to school in Philly, worked on the Hill, me and Tip were buds, I'm somebody. Yeah your somebody ok.

"our daughter made it through her disc surgery in fine shape with no complications, etc. She'll spend the night in the hospital and then come here so that Stinky can minister to her. I'm much relieved."

That's great news.

From Obama's response to the jobs numbers:
"That’s why I’m calling on Congress and the President to enact real, immediate relief with energy rebates for working families this summer, a fund to help families avoid foreclosure, extended benefits for the long-term jobless, and assistance to states that have been hard-hit by the economic downturn."

"energy rebates" sounds like petroleum products tax holiday to me.

Kathy -- I saw Vargas on c-span...he's very good. His comments on how the internet, and knowing more about manipulation of video footage etc are used to smear candidates, increase partisanship were right on.

matthews is still on TV? huh.......imagine that..........

i get loads of the republican slime e-mails......lol.....some of them are amazing.......

"I attended a private college with almost full assistance due to my family income- but a public one would cost more."

Kathy -- very true....if you are a star student, a private university is far more likely to give you a good scholarship.

Bear,

"Were that to be used against Obama, wouldn't that present a viable solution for dealing with some segment of the illegals being born here?"

My point exactly. This whole story is much to do about nothing which is similar to much of the blather coming from all sides these days.

Bear posted: "However badly you feel white women have had it in this country, I'm not sure how you can argue that they had it worse than these workers."

most women, non-white and white, had fewer rights then men at that time; were considered chattel; and to this day are abused (physically, verbally, publically) soley because of gender more than men. still practiced in the us are certain sects and religions treating women of any color less than free men.

Don't ask me how that happened, because that is not what I just sent out!

"I realize you have raised your children very well on your own, for the most part."

ha...not sure what you mean by "for the most part" dog....kinds like "You're likeable....enough." :)

One more FISA related post.
District Court: What FISA Did, What the FISA Capitulation Does
by mcjoan
Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 06:45:53 AM PDT
Yesterday Chief Judge Vaughn Walker of the Northern District of California issued an opinion in Al Haramain v. Bush, one of the cases challenging the NSA warrantless wiretapping program. EFF has the decision, which is a clear a repudiation of what the Democratic Congress of the United States is doing with the FISA Amendments Act as any post any left blogger has written.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/7/3/01858/48079/358/545773

"However badly you feel white women have had it in this country, I'm not sure how you can argue that they had it worse than these workers."

Bear....when I speak of sexism I surely do not mean just white women, not do I mean just in this country. I'm talking historically and universally.

Damn Bear I don't think you kicked the hornets nest hard enough. lol

If there was a scale consisting of all races, creed, religions, economy, you name it, I can guarantee you that at the bottom of the pile you'll find a female.

" HRC supporters act like she was Joan of Arc "

Not this one. I have always been aware of her shortcomings. And in the end, the media and the O-team did damn near sacrifice her at the alter.

Fry, et al., this really isn't terribly exciting, but, if, as a condition of living wherever she lived at that particular point of time, she renounced her US citizenship, that would put her status into the realm that Gordo talks about.

As Pogo quite rightly would suggest, the burden of establishing that such a renunciation exists, falls upon the accuser. J'accuse! J'accuse! Jean Val Jean, J'accuse!

Now on HuffPO: "For McCain, it's Jobs First in Mexico"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/craig-crawford/for-mccain-its-jobs-first_b_110668.html

Morning peeps,

Today's thread on the BackChannel Blog

European Tom Explains Why He’s Supporting Obama

http://clistersbackchannel.wordpress.com/2008/07/03/european-tom-explains-why-hes-supporting-obama/

Fry, that was one of Gordo's takes on the issue, but Gordo has been spending column inch after column inch posting links to articles in Noquarter and the like questioning the validity of the birth certificate posted on Obama's site for a couple of weeks now, and I have been telling him to put up or shut up for about that long. If Obama was born in Honolulu to an American mother, he is a citizen, birth certificate or no. Even his Vsalaw link above is msileading - it is for kids born outside the US. The problem is that Gordo has not a single fact to prove that Obama is anything other than an American citizen, so he keeps posting what is in my view a BS distraction from the case wholly devoid of underlying evidence he's attempting to make. And the initial posting he put up regarding residency requirements was of current law for children born outside the US - and which has been changed numerous times, the version he had posted was changed in 1986 if I recall correctly. I don't object to this line of inquiry because I support Obama - I don't support him other than because he's the Dem nominee - and I am not thrilled about that - although I support McCain even less. I object to it because it is an intellectually dishonest argument - suggesting that law that is inapplicable to Obama under all the facts that have been presented and would invalidate his claim to citizenship and eligibility for the presidency if it were applicable should be applied because some technogeek says the BC on a website has been photoshopped.

Bear, Patsi. I'll take your workers and raise you mine.

The tragically poor women in the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory are certainly at the top of the heap.

Craig can anyone explain to me why he made this trip at all? What exactly he hopes to gain by it is beyond me, except as you say he's hoping that running all over the world acting like a president will actually convince people he should be elected I don't see the point.

Fry is a feminist! Who knew? lol

Bear and I argue about this all the time. I used to argue it with the husband side of a black couple I was friends with....he always said women had it just great. That was before he made a million in the software business and left his sick wife for his blonde secretary.

Yee Haw:

Barack Obama is leading John McCain by five percentage points in Montana. The latest Rasmussen Reports telephone survey in the state shows Obama attracting 48% of the vote while McCain earns 43%.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/montana/election_2008_montana_presidential_election2

Brian, remember the old New Yorker cover showing Manhattan as being the center of our world? I think Mr McCain would like people to believe Mr Obama's world revolves around the Sears Tower while McCain's is the world itself.

Patsi, you knew McCain? Oh, wait, you said that guy was the husband side of a black couple. Sounded like McCain there for a moment.

Flatus,

Gordo doesn't talk about BHO's mother giving birth to little BHO outside the US, or she renounced her US citizenship. There is absolutely no proof that ever occurred. If those records existed someone in Immigration would have sold those document to the National Enquirer. Gordo's whole case comes down to a US citizen who marries a foreign national and has child. He believes that if said mother did not live in the US for a minimum of 5 years after the age of 14, the child born, in this case BHO, would not be considered a US citizen. This is so stupid its funny. BHO for better or worse was born to a US citizen, in the state of Hawaii, BHO is a US citizen.

Flatus apparently the people of Montana don't agree! You know if Obama ends up taking states like Montana it could inflict a wound on the repugs and far right that it will take a decade for them to recover from.

Obama '08

flatus, what Fry said.

Barack Obama wants the job of POTUS. Why not just show everyone the certified paper documents? Is there something he doesn't want the public to know? If he was born on US soil, there is no question about being a natural born citizen. There is some reason to believe that he was actually born in Washington state - no problem. But if he was born in Canada, BO would not be a natural born citizen because his father was not a US citizen and his mother did meet the five year requirement (my 10:03 AM post).

GORDO: isn't that horse dead yet?

Barack selling out?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/20080702/cm_huffpost/110411;_ylt=AuvPvy8q.ePyAfj_wGIDxGSs0NUE

Gordo, there are just too many ifs in your statement. It's not like he was trying to gain membership in the Sons of the American Revolution, or something like that.

Dog
I believe Gordo loves munching on rotting meat.

Gordo
Why don't you tackle a real conspiracy, like who owns congress and why are they pissed at Iran.

Jack

All I wanna know is why he left Hawaii for Illinois? I mean , I have an Uncle who left Hawaii for Iowa and we all thought he was crazy. He moved back to Hawaii less than 2 years later!

"Patsi, you knew McCain? Oh, wait, you said that guy was the husband side of a black couple. Sounded like McCain there for a moment."

Ha, Pogo....yeah, McCain fits in there somewhere too...and Limbaugh, and Gingrich and...most of 'em are Republicans...

My biggest problem with the millionaire and his wife is that he was such an outspoken black advocate...then along came this blonde secretary. What a phony bast&&d,

Montana already has two Democratic Senators and a Democratic Governor. Not much of a surpise

As to the shade of blue...

"GORDO: isn't that horse dead yet?"

It's been dead so long Gordo is hoping it's glue and will stick...

On our Trail Mix Facebook group, we're gearing up a round of "Who's Your Favorite Founder?" for Independence Day. Play along at:

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=17347137146

Gordo,

If there was a real concern, real proof, someone by now who have filed under the Freedom of Information. Or have paid-off someone in Hawaii to get a copy of his BC. I really think this is much to do about nothing as you are trying to prove a negative. Without proof it just isn't going to happen. If you want to beat up BHO, there are a number of real things you could attack him on. Mostly his own words and how he keeps back peddling trying to explain what he said last week, last month, last year, is exactly what he is saying now with a totally different meaning.

Corey

In his youth he aspired to be a do gooder. Part of a do gooder's psyche is one must suffer and pay penance.
It is amazing how many do gooders grow up to become politicians where they want everyone to suffer and pay penance. It is called shared sacrifice.

There are right and left versions of theis BTW.

Jack

I am off to buy stuff for tomorrow.

Everyone have a Happy 4th, and keep in mind what this holiday is all about.

another reason I love CC and C-list......

I have opinions, but I'm not particularly politically active.....I vote but I dont expect much and am rarely surprised (Kerry, Gore, etc....) But.........during the 08 primaries, the SC primary to be precise, I asked my daughter if she would go with me to see John McCain speak at the Citadel as CC was looking for reports from the primaries......so somehow we actually went.....going downtown is not my favorite thing......but I picked up me dotty downtown and we went to the Citadel to see John McCain.......it was not much that I could see, McCain and Lindsay Graham and some local goobers spouting the usual gop lines..........I found most interesting the choreography of the event.....herding the cadets in to fill out the sparse audience, the speakers dancing around, the photogs doing their jobs......etc...........
anyway.....the daughter and I didnt talk about it much then but a couple days later I asked what she thought and all she said was "I wish I hadnt gone." I axed why and she said, "because I didnt hate him before, and now I do....."
I let it go at that and that's about all I knew about it......the other day I hiphiphoorayed about her entering grad school....(communications)......well, that night she showed me her statement of purpose or whatever it is about why she wants to further her education.......she'd been considering other options as she's mostly poor while in school and she doesnt care for that at all......but there in the statement was the paragraph crediting her experience at the mccain rally as a defining moment: when mccain called for the censorship or suppression of moveon.org.......(betrayus was much in the news) as the reason she wanted to pursue her career in school........

I just thought "well, I'll be damned....." I still hope she comes to see the wisdom of pursuing a law degree, but one step at a time, one step at a time.......

Thanks, C-list.

"Also agree with your assessment of Gordo's, posts concerning Obama's birth. There are relevant unanswered questions."

Nick : right on the mark! I am glad your here. It improves everyone's day.

"suffer and pay penance"

Jack, you broke the code. And penance even goes so far as establishing the FFP (Fried Food Police) to ensure compliance.

My biggest problem with the millionaire and his wife is that he was such an outspoken black advocate...then along came this blonde secretary. What a phony bast&&d,