Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Glass sweat!

He'll go over big in Belgium.

...mother of invention. So yeah, it does.

I am in a very childish mood today...Mr. Obama needs to be careful with affirmative action, it may snag him like a chinese finger trap.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_finger_puzzle

He heads into issues, but may have trouble backing out. MIght get caught, Mr. Obama

http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/20080727/wl_mcclatchy/3002266

Petrayus no backing timetable withdrawal.

Think outside the box, Tom.

I'd be curious as to exactly how you feel Obama has upended the status quo. Seems pretty old school to me since the minute he secured the nomination. Lotta talk, not much walk. I'll give him one thing- he's got charisma. He's a music man! (He's a what, he's a what?)

Affirmative action is more racist than I'll ever be, btw. Definition of.

Fin

Obama ad surge a bust

"After spending millions of dollars in key battleground states this summer, it appears that Barack Obama has not improved his numbers in any substantial way and may have lost ground in some places.

... polls showing most American undecided about the Illinois senator and believe him to be the riskier choice in the contest for president."

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/07/obama_ad_surge_a_bust.html

Thanks for bringing up another issue where McSame has flip flopped on.

"Rather than engage in divisive ballot initiatives, we must have a dialogue and cooperation and mutual efforts together to provide every child in America to fulfill their expectations,"

That was Gramps speaking out in 1998 against an Arizona resolution to end affirmative action. What a difference a decade makes. He was lying back then too.

The Music Man "Ya Got Trouble"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LI_Oe-jtgdI

That first post was for you Jack. It was going to say something else, but I know you get it.

And I've posted that song thrice thus far, but I'm always down... Stuck in my head all weekend.

New President inherits almost 490 billion dollar deficit from Bush.

On affirmative action, go for financial rather than racial guidelines. Helps exactly the same people without making race an issue.

Sen Obama is a move past old stereotypes. Might as well blast them all out of the water; put the action where it is needed not where it sounds and looks good.

Champ,

But you gotta know the territory!

Yup. I'm all plum tuckered from being some out-of-town Jasper trying to talk about horse racin' (not the civilized type but the kind where some stuck-up jockey's tryin' to ride on ol' Dan Patch).

zzzzzzz...

Look, whaddya talk, whaddya talk, whaddya talk?

Posted by: Jamie | July 28, 2008 2:33 PM

There is a designation DBE --disadvantaged business enterprise.

At the unity conference Obama addressed the underlying problems --that if you are a drop out --no matter what-- affirmative action isn't going to help you.

I benefited from affirmative action policies and I think they do wok because at least in government contracting it forces the agency to look outside the "old boyz networks.:

What other position could McCain credibly take? Hell, it's likely to part of the Republican platform. Affirmative Action implementation has long been an idea with fairly widespread support but a mushy-fuzzy issue to implement without quotas (or milestones or target levels - call them what you will). If Craig is right and that is McCain's purpose, and it is effective. Obama will have to be like Dems who have long had to try and walk a razor's edge on the issue to try and keep those on the left who support aggressive affirmative action plans and those in the middle who like the idea but oppose quotas. But I don't see him losing much of his base no matter what position he takes publicly because I can't see this as much of an issue in the context of the other bigger and more pressing issues the campaigns will have to address in the runup to November.

"I can't see this as much of an issue in the context of the other bigger and more pressing issues the campaigns will have to address in the runup to November."

pogo.... I agree...... it's still...... the economy, stupid....

Affirmative action without quotas is not so affirmative and not very active.

This is too clever by half. Until yesterday, McCain supported affirmative action as practiced by the United States military. In fact, he argued that he was a strong supporter of affirmative action following the military model, advocated that the model be widely adopted, and put the model into practice regularly in the Navy.

Affirmative action in the military is free of quotas, but heavy on racial preference. McCain now supports an amendment that would unquestionably forbid any affirmative action program in Arizona that follows the military model. There's no ambiguity here.

Before yesterday, Obama and McCain had essentially identical positions on affirmative action. Now, McCain's switched and I don't see how Obama's been put in a box since the position he's held forever is and has been rather popular. It's not difficult to come up with anecdotes that counter the apparent wisdom of the Arizona amendment: Do you think the military should strive to have minority officers to work with minority troops? Do you think schools should be able to hire male or female teachers to work with male or female students? Do you think prisons should be able to engage in outreach to hire minority guards to better work with largely minority inmates? All of those will be illegal in Arizona if McCain has his (newly discovered) way.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ayAvDdzA6J0

Yeah, Renee, between the economy and thewaronterra (a.k.a. theiraqwar) and illegal wiretapping (OK, I just threw that in as a personal beef), I don't see anything related to civil rights making an appearance, much less a difference, in the campaign.

KGC

Affirmative action works. It's just that if you focus on race only you get a lot of upper middle class college graduates who happen to be the right shade or ethnicity. They don't need the help to be successful.

If you reach down for economically or educationally disadvantaged and force education, training, and hiring, you help the people of all shades and ethnicities that really need the leg up on the ladder.

He'll go over big in Belgium.

Posted by: champ | July 28, 2008 2:07 PM

what the hell does that mean?

Jamie

That too!

I like minority preferences when it is government contracts to minority owned businesses or reserving a certain percentage of contracts for small business.

One problem with this is that the major contractors will often create a "small" business and then feed the sub contract to their creation. It helps people but is more of the corporate stranglehold on government budgets.

Isn't Obama the truly affirmative action candidate? Geraldine Ferraro was vilified for saying so.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/issues/index.html

Affirmative action doesn't even make it on the broad list of issues.
Here is the top 5

Economy 42%
War 24%
Health care 12%
Terrorism 11%
Immigration 8%

jamie, exactly. This is an example of an effective federal affirmative action program that does not involve racial quotas, but does require a certain level of participation of disadvantaged students, who depending on where the program is located, may be predominantly one ethnic group or another.

http://www.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ope/trio/index.html

I have worked in 2 of these programs - one, at the college level was around 50% AA participants in a university that had maybe 15% AA students overall. The other was in a high school age setting that was exclusively (or nearly so) white participants whose accents would be very familiar to Bowman and Renee. Loved the program, hated the paperwork.

Hey UB, my gratuitous inclusion didn't even make the list. Nutz.

In my gut I just don't like affirmative action, unless it is applied with "everything else being equal" then choose the under-represented candidate for the job. People who work hard and study and go after jobs should be awarded. In these times of economic downturns which seem the worst I can remember, preferential treatment is only going to further anger and divide an already angry and divided country.

People need to stand for themselves. If they are good, it they have the credentials, if they show the ability and promise, they will get hired.

"One problem with this is that the major contractors will often create a "small" business and then feed the sub contract to their creation. It helps people but is more of the corporate stranglehold on government budgets."

It's a lot harder to do that then it used to be. The certification process is tougher and geniuine sub contractors are moe aggressive in seeking the business.

"Obama expands his base"

It figures, considering all the bending over he's been doing for Republicans.

"And why did Senators McCaskill and Obama reportedly insert the following Clause?

“Whereas previous presidential candidates were born outside of the United States of America and were understood to be eligible to be President;”

This Clause has no particular relevance to McCain and the following Clause, which it is reported McCaskill and Obama attempted to REMOVE shows that:

and Whereas John Sidney McCain, III, was born to American citizens on an American military base in the Panama Canal Zone in 1936.”

It seems clear that McCaskill and Obama were attempting to create a blanket Resolution covering ALL Foreign Born candidates. Why do that if not to benefit a Foreign Born Democratic Candidate who did not have a US Military background?

McCain did not need this resolution, Richardson did not need this Resolution ... the only individual in the race that that could apply to was Senator Obama!"

http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/07/26/divided-loyalties-obamas-eligibility-problem-part-2/#comments

I agree with Craig in that I think this could become more of an issue. In view of these difficult economic times-- which tend to make people more competiive with each other I think this could be quite a popular position for McCain.
Obama will be double talking again in an effort to confuse the clarity of his earlier position.

Pogo - point being....affirmative action as an issue isn't going to make or break either candidate....they both will muddle around it

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CANDIDATES_AFFIRMATIVE_ACTION?SITE=CONGRA&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Obama said Sunday that affirmative action is not a long-term solution to discrimination, and that it must not ignore the problems of poor whites. But affirmative action does address "some of the hardships and difficulties that communities of color may have experienced."

Sure, it might become a nine-day wonder type news story, but I can't imagine Affirmative Action being able to hold a candle to the economy and the war in Iraq. If Obama can wait it out and try not to get trapped (I liked the Chinese finger trap analogy, whoever wrote that comment.), it could be a total non-issue by November.

I'm sick of the O-team crying race at every turn, but in this case, I will do it. The affirmative action talk is just McCain's way of reminding wavering white evangelicals that Obama is black and may cater to his "people."

Which is hysterical, because I suspect that as president Obama will be very careful to steer clear of any black issues. Unless it's to tell black men they are bad dads.

Of course it isn't a big issue. That isn't the point. This is all about driving up Obamas negatives. Death by a tousand paper cuts. Put enough stuff out there that he has to respond to and if it isn't a scripted answer, there is a good chance that he is going to give one of his soon to be famous inarticulate um responses.

Anbody that thinks McCains campaign is not going to go to work on Obama's image and his shifting positions is naive.

This is a back door, swiftboat-like swipe at not only Obama but at all people of color. McCain is saying vote for me, I'm white and didn't have the benefits of affirmative action. Didn't have affirmative action my ass! How do you think he got into the Naval Academy? Grandpa and Daddy were admirals. Just like Bush who got into Yale because of their pedigrees. And, they both ended up as C students or lower. Bush even got business loans, a governorship and into the WH because of his father and their brand of affirmative action -- which is called the "good ol' boy network." This won't go away because it raises the issue of racism without even having to talk about it.

UB, like I said - economy and war (and I agree that health care will be on the voters' minds as well although I'm a big fan of considering domestic spying).

Eprof - I think they call those legacy admissions.

BAKERSFIELD, California (Reuters) - Republican presidential candidate John McCain, who has suffered from skin cancer in the past, had a spot removed from his face on Monday during a routine checkup by a doctor in Phoenix, an aide said.

"At this point it was just a precautionary removal," the aide told reporters on McCain's campaign plane. She said the spot was covered by a bandage and was visible on his face.

McCain has had four malignant melanomas -- a potentially lethal type of skin cancer -- surgically removed since 1993. Three of them were limited to the top layers of the skin and were not invasive. The fourth melanoma was invasive and was removed from his left temple in 2000.

"...and McCain has had another suspicious mole removed." -Patsi

From his body or his campaign?

eprof2

You are absolutely right about the "legacy" grants for the children of the privileged. On the last thread I said that human beings don't respond well to charity without a performance component whether it was welfare or a trust fund baby.

Shrub and McCain are classic examples of the trust fund baby types who had the road to success handed to them. McCain did the right thing in Viet Nam, but I think he still carries a lot of that sense of entitlement without actually having to do anything.

Here's one you gotta love.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/28/AR2008072801198.html?hpid=moreheadlines

EPA tells it's managers to shut the f*ck up if approached by Congressional investigators or the agency's own INSPECTOR GENERAL. Jesus H.

Pure silly. An elephant and baseball joke I had never heard

'What do you do with an elephant with three balls?

You walk him and pitch to the rhino.'"

You've never heard that before?!

Legacy fund or affirmative action. Mas o menos! One, supposedly, is for white folks and the other is for people of color. And, the latter is resented by the former. It's racism, and just like racism won't go away affirmative action won't either. Affirmative action is code for "giving away the store" to black and brown people who don't deserve it nor have they earned it.

Hilarious. I just want a pizza, goshdangit...

http://www.dominos.com/home/index.jsp

(turn up sound, not too loud, though)

champ, pretty dramatic for a pepperoni pizza, no?

"but I think he still carries a lot of that sense of entitlement without actually having to do anything"

Jamie there is a big difference between being the son of old money such as a bush or Kennedy and McCain being from a military tradition. You don't get "fighter pilot" handed to you. You have to earn it. It is not easy being the Admirals son in the military, It is a bit like being the preachers son in church, all eyes are on you.

Jack

hw, excellent

Jack

I'm talking about the personality. The guy who almost got tossed from the academy.

jack, you don't get a Harvard degree handed to you, either, you have to earn it. The legacy part (or AA, both of which are resented by the other) is getting into, not out of the pipeline. You don't think McCain got help on the front end because of two generations of admirals preceding him? Or Dumya? Dumya was C student Eli and a fighter pilot, fuhchrissakes. You think he earned the spot in the guard? Granted he had to learn to fly the damn jet, but I'd wager he was the least qualified pilot candidate in his guard unit.

Now I gotta go - LP's got yet another soccer camo to go to.

Even graduating last from the USNA (called the 'anchorman', figure it out) is quite an accomplishment. It's not Annapolis Community Junior College, ya know.

Does HE know his name is Little Pogo?

"Affirmative action is code for "giving away the store" to black and brown people who don't deserve it nor have they earned it. "

Which is exactly why I think you need to change the focus to those who have the least advantages. Just as the GI Bill sent a lot of people to college who never would have been considered for admission and in the process created the modern middle class, so "Affirmative Action" by whatever name should concentrate on those who start life behind the eight ball.

There have always been well educated and successful minorities in our society. Yes they had to put up with a lot of crap, but they had the skills, education, and means to achieve.

I would just prefer that the funds and actions concentrate on those left behind

And yes, HW, g1. That clean Pacific breeze must hone your rapier wit. Think how dangerous I will be if I move out there...

Pogo
Who gives a f*** about what Bush did or didn't.
He was in the Texas National guard.

I was talking about McCain and he was in the Navy not the national guard. You may slam McCain for many things but you have to earn your wings. Even Admiral's sons.

Jack

Champ,

Here is a thought for you. I had a cousin that during the depression and just after, ( a woman by the way),traveled every state in US. She would take a job and stay as long as she liked, then move on. She too was looking for the place she wanted to live. In reality she came back to her home state of Missouri when it was over and wrote about her experiences. Usually you gravitate back to or close to where you were born as that is uppermost in a person's memory.

Thanks Juile. I was, in fact, considering becoming a hobo myself. Not kidding.

Just for the record, I think the "Legacy" admissions are less deserving than the AA simply because they often had greater advantages leading up to that point and if with all that head start they still couldn't qualify without a "legacy" boost to their scores, then they should go to city college for awhile and apply later.

About the only exception I would care to give to this is the legacy for children whose parent won the Congressional Medal of Honor. That requirement usually costs them a parent and a chance at a superior education seems like a small thing to do.

FWIW, I earned my stripes, each and every one of them. I was not sponsored by anyone. I joined up to keep from being the bosses son.

I hold most officers in disdain.

That said, I agree with Jack on this.

There is no friggin' way they can nominate this guy; he's got recurring malignant cancer, for crying out loud. I don't hold it against him, but I'm just some bozo on a computer, and even I realize politics is all about perception. Unless...

...the game is rigged. Duh (me duh, not you duh).

A reminder to some folks, all admissions the military acadamies require knowing someone. You can't just walk in and apply, you need to be nominated.
http://www.usna.edu/Admissions/faq.htm#nomination

Jack

http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2008/07/21/both-ways-barack-new-ad

scroll down to see the new anti Obama ad....

That's a little misleading, Jack. Better way to think about it is you submit your application to your congressional representatives (or Pres. and maybe VP), and those people act as the admissions board.

Of course, I'm sure there is some favor trading involved in many cases.

maybe it's not new ? I had not seen it before

Being a graduate of a military academy is not the only way to become an officer.
Colin Powell, went through ROTC training.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Powell#Military_career

Jack

You can be pretty sure they look at Sen McCain's application closely. Here's why:
http://www.mccain.navy.mil/Site%20Pages/namesake.aspx

"She would take a job and stay as long as she liked, then move on. She too was looking for the place she wanted to live. In reality she came back to her home state of Missouri when it was over and wrote about her experiences. "

What a great way to spend the Depression! And what a great conclusion to the story...thanks Julie!

"Of course, I'm sure there is some favor trading involved in many cases"

Ya think?

Jack

"There is no friggin' way they can nominate this guy; he's got recurring malignant cancer, for crying out loud. "

I agree. champ -- this is stunning to me. Unless the Republicans just flat don't care this time out.

Pats
your welcome. She was an amazing person. You should know that some of the jobs she held were like Hillary's with the fish factory.. Wish I had done it.

Jack

That ROTC rather than Academy is one of the reason the enlisted still hold Powell in so much esteem. About the only ones who would get more respect would be the mustangs.

Economy hitting the elderly especially hard - they certainly didn't fair well after the last 7+ years of republican rule.....make you wonder if they will vote for another one.

"Unless the Republicans just flat don't care this time out. "

The Republicans are pretty well saying, "Anybody want this job? We don't!!"

Likely voters shift support to McCain

http://blogs.usatoday.com/onpolitics/

Julie

A lot of those women who lived through the depression were amazing. My aunt went across country on the back of a motorcycle with her first husband working any job they could find. She settled down, bade the first an amicable goodbye and married a man 14 years her junior. Necessity seems to have brought out the hellraiser in them.

Anonymous

One. USA Today is wrong and
Two. That Move On ad is really, really cute.

"She was an amazing person."

Julie -- is the book she wrote available anywhere?

Craig's post states the practical reality of doing whatever it takes to win an election, like it or not.

Is it really any surprise that an issue such as Affirmative Acion & calling for the ending of racial preferences would not be introduced by the Republicans?

This is just the kind of issue that energizes Republicans, and many of those voters who live in the "fly over" states as well, who not only resent AA programs but see themselves being squeezed out of the miiddle class by a failing economy, while such things as AA programs tax them & benefit
those they see as not as deserving as their own.

Unless...
...the game is rigged. [champ 4:46]

allow me to channel gordo:
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/07/27/the-donna-brazile-karl-rove-connection/

Patsi

Will go back and see if I can find the info on her and if the book is named.

Julie

Wonderful, Julie -- thanks! P

Again those pesky polls.

What these polls indicate to me is that the election continues to be up for grabs, which in light of the mood of the electorate & the perception (real or not) of the state of the economy, should favor overwhelmingly the dem. candidate.

Further, whichever candidate successfully defines the other candidate (negatively) will in all likelihood be the winner.

http://blogs.usatoday.com/onpolitics/2008/07/gains-for-mccai.html

"Is it really any surprise that an issue such as Affirmative Acion & calling for the ending of racial preferences would not be introduced by the Republicans"

Remember, Obama is running on being post racial.
This is a no brainer for McCain. First, he loses nothing as Obama is going to get all the AA's and their supporters.
His gains will depend on Obamas reaction. If Obama is vigorous in his defense of Afermative action then Obama stays in the box he put himself in during the primaries and can be painted as just another out of touch liberal. Also, McCain is able to drive a wedge between Obama and Hispanics. And combing it with things like "obama is for high gas prices" it starts to take a toll on Obama with the only voters who really count, the suburban swing voters.
If nothing else Obama will handle it as clumsily as he has several issues and start to look like he is abandoning his base and is pandering.
There are many ways for Obama to lose and not very many for McCain with this tactic.

Jack

"What these polls indicate to me is that the election continues to be up for grabs"

Yet , it shouldn't be. Obama is not connecting for some reason. He should be in the same position as the congress and counting his landslide. But he isn't.

Jack

Jack, I agree completely.

The election is truly Obama's to lose.

And if John McCain should somehow start to run an even mildly effective campaign, with a coherent message, he could very well be elected.

"There was and is no evidence of recurrence or metastasis -- meaning spread -- of the invasive melanoma nearly eight years after the surgery. ... The prognosis for Sen. McCain is good because the time of greatest risk for recurrence of invasive melanoma is within the first few years after the surgery," Eckstein said.

McCain has had other less serious skin cancers removed over the years, according to Eckstein, and he has a skin examination every three to four months
http://www.newsobserver.com/politics/story/1083749.html

McCain Veers Off Script, Talks About His Cancer Battle
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/07/25/mccain-veers-off-script-talks-about-his-cancer-battle/

Bush got into Yale as a legacy. Barry and Michelle got into the Ivies via affirmative action. As late as this April Michelle was still complaining in her stump speech about how unfair the SAT is.

Big Dawg was a Rhodes Scholar on his own merits, and his missus was so brilliant that Wellesley College changed its long-standing tradition of not having a student address at commencement so that they could invite her to speak.

"What these polls indicate to me is that the election continues to be up for grabs"

Barring some sort of massive meltdown, Obama will get his landslide and McCain will be the Republican sacrificial goat. The question is his favorability rating.

Right now Sen. Obama has the enthusiastic support of the mosh pit screamers. The same ones he started with. The rest are, "Well okay, not bad, stuck with, etc." They are along for the ride, but they really wanted another train.

His VP and Cabinet appointments will be what brings along some of the lag behinds. This is no time to go for change, change, change. Save that for year two when there is some successful legislation.

As to a VP selection--for what it is worh both Politico & the Page are pushing the same line

Tim Kaine is "very very high" on Obama's short list.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0708/12115.html

sorry should have been "for what it is worth"

Gallup/USA Today Poll: McCain +4

McCain now ahead 49%-45% among voters that Gallup believes are most likely to go to the polls in November. In late June, he was behind among likely voters, 50%-44%.

McCain still trails slightly among the broader universe of "registered" voters. By both measures, the race is tight. Friday-Sunday poll, mostly conducted as Obama was returning from his much publicized overseas trip

http://time-blog.com/real_clear_politics/2008/07/gallupusa_today_poll_mccain_4.html

IRONY ALERT
"Remember, Obama is running on being post racial.
This is a no brainer for McCain. First, he loses nothing as Obama is going to get all the AA's and their supporters.”

First, he loses nothing as Obama is going to get all the AA's and their supporters.”

Just like the primary.

People who vote one issue you dope.

Kaine 'very, very high' on Obama's VP shortlist:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/12115;_ylt=AoOIlLl_K28YSimFt7g41Nqs0NUE

When people vote for a candidate because of his race, why isn't that racist?

I used to laugh during the primaries when the punditocracy would voice their alarm at the number of voters who, when polled, said that the candidate's race was important.

They always assumed that these people were white racists voting against Obama. It never occurred to them that these were AA's voting for Obama.

As long as a significant part of the electorate is voting purely along racial lines, this cannot be considered a post racial election, and to be blunt, I don't understand why anyone is getting a pass on this nonsense.

Social hot spot? Try the dog park.

http://www.mlive.com/news/grpress/index.ssf?/base/news-43/1217052911133560.xml&coll=6

McCain ahead in new poll. It's a good thing nobody pays any attention to polls.

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/07/mccain_ahead_in.html

USA Today < HIGHLIGHTS for Children

plus, they don't even have "Timbertoes", or "Goofus and Gallant"

"Goofus" always got a raw deal in my book. No wonder he was such a tool.

Goody for you.

"Bush got into Yale as a legacy. Barry and Michelle got into the Ivies via affirmative action."

I think the first sentence is accurate but I'm not sure about the second one; at least in Barack's case. He might of been in an academic scholarship position. I have no idea of either Obama's scores or highschool graduation status. I do recall reading something about Dumya's lower ranking in HS.

Call me a cynic, but I have a sneaking suspicion that if
BO had even won an academic scholarship, he'd make sure that the world knew about it.

This is interesting in that there is another death penalty case after this one that may have to be decided by the next president

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5ggP77qC4esV3XpNNgJq25XW25f0QD9274VTG0

Being AA is only one factor that may have played into Barack Obama's admission to Harvard.

The Ivies like to mix up the states and you can't get much farther away than Hawaii. Then add in the Sports credentials and a recornized private school, plus who knows what communitiy recommendations given the mother and grandmother's financial connections.

As long as his academic scores were in the acceptable range, his race would not necessarily have been that major a criterion.

I didn't say "won " a scholarship I was just suggesting he might of been admitted based upon academic merit with race as a plus factor.He was a transfer student to the Ivies.

In his day schools were operating and being closely monitored because of the Bakke case.

"if BO had even won an academic scholarship, he'd make sure that the world knew about it."
What's his book say?

If I remember correctly, Flounder got into the Delta House Fraternity because his brother Fred was a legacy.

I don't think he was selected editor of the HLR because of race.

Jamie said "Just for the record, I think the "Legacy" admissions are less deserving than the AA simply because they often had greater advantages leading up to that point ..."

Those wallowing in the "fairy tale" of a poor racist upbringing for Obama may have forgotten that he had a legacy advantage for admission to Harvard through his father.

In looking for info on SAT scores, I came across this article about another woman's experience as a black woman at Princeton. It's good reading

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/18/AR2008071802560.html

"Those wallowing in the "fairy tale" of a poor racist upbringing for Obama "

I don't think anyone who has been awake for this campaign believes that.

So when do you think that McCain will say to Obama: "Senator, I knew Jack Kennedy. Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy."

So sorry that was Bentson scolding Dan Quayle.

Bowmac

He is not even a Bobbie Jindal.

But he is all we've got.

Jack

Gotta admit reading Barack Obama's application for admittance would be interesting. Was his father still alive? Was he a Kenyan government official at the time? His mother was acting as banking officer for an NGO in the Phillipines. Throw in Hawaii and the Punahou experience and you couldn't get much more international. There are all sorts of bells and whistles that could have decorated that request for entrance guaranteed to make an admissions board sit up and go "hey now!" :-)

"Senator Ron Wyden (D-OR) wrote to the Public Interest Declassification Board (PIDB) last week to request that it review the classified opinions of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance (FIS) Court from the last ten years and make recommendations regarding their classification or declassification.

The FIS Court not only grants (or, rarely, denies) authorization for domestic intelligence surveillance. It also from time to time reinterprets the requirements of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, producing a secret body of common law."

http://www.fas.org/blog/secrecy/2008/07/wyden_declass.html

Jack

From what I've heard, private high schooling can work against a college applicant, for similar reasons as the ones that are being discussed at the moment.

While at United States Naval Academy (wiki)

McCain came into conflict with higher-ranking personnel, he did not always obey the rules, and this contributed to a low class rank (894 of 899) that he did not aim to improve.[9][11][12] McCain did well in academic subjects that interested him, such as literature and history, but studied only enough to pass subjects he disliked, such as math.[5] McCain graduated in 1958.[9]

"McCain did well in academic subjects that interested him, such as literature and history, but studied only enough to pass subjects he disliked, such as math.[5]"

That could go in my 'wiki', except that I had to work my arse off just to pass the subjects I didn't like. Well, I did alright, but I worked for it.

Punahou is a fascinating school. It is 167 years old and was established originally so that the children of missionaries would not have to be sent back to the states until going to university.

http://www.punahou.edu/page.cfm?p=12

One of the reasons McCain finished so low in class rankings is all the demerits. Just a maverik even then.

Jack

One little tidbit in the above info on Punahou is that it is now a tradition for all the girls to wear "holoku" for graduation.

Wouldn't you love to see this parade coming across a field to get their diplomas?

http://hawaiiantrading.com/herb-kane/image-pg/hula-holoku.jpg

Champ
There are private schools and then there are the private schools that garanttee access to the world. Obama went to the later.

Jack

Yeah, i dunno dude. Just what I heard.

"A U.S. missile strike that's believed to have killed a senior al Qaida operative in Pakistan's tribal area roiled talks Monday between President Bush and Pakistani Prime Minister Sayed Yousaf Gilani, who reproached Bush for acting unilaterally and failing to share intelligence with Pakistani authorities. "

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/45757.html

Jack

Jack,

Talk about a High School graduation that looks like the world

http://www.punahou.edu/uploaded/images/Programs/01Curriculum/curriculum-graduation01.jpg

BO was elected president of the Law Review after he ran on an affirmative action platform. He held the position for 1 year. Nothing he wrote (if indeed he ever wrote anything ) was published in the Law Review.

Cbama transferred out of Occidental College in California into Columbia. The professor at Occidental who wrote his letter of recommendation remembers a single detail about him: "He handed in stuff late alot."

I certainly did not mean to even remotely imply that Barack Obama was admitted to Harvard as an affirmative action decision. My concern is that the McCain swiftboaters will make a connection between affirmative action with race as a factor for admission and contracts and Senator Obama.

Remember what the swiftboaters did to Kerry and Max Cleland. Two war heroes who were painted almost as traitors. Connecting Obama with race admissions decisions will paint Obama as someone who got special treatment and wasn't qualified. The wasn't qualified impression is what resonates with anti-affirmative action folks. In my many years on college campuses I never met a student who was, indeed, admitted with an affirmative action decision that wasn't qualified. Perhaps their scores and grades were not as good as some other applicants but they were always qualified.

We have seen too many cases where Repugs have used semantics to turn things around and paint people into corners from which they don't escape in election cycles.

Just today, McCain was accusing Obama of not supporting the troops with votes in the Senate. Guess who has the worse record on supporting the troops with their vote: John McCain. Unbelievable how Repugs do that and don't get called on it!

"This morning we have updated the 'Last Stand' Email Initiative to stop the nomination of Barack Obama has passed the 136,000 mark. To date we have targeted approximately 1/4 of the Superdelegates and plan on reaching all of them, including the Superdelegates that have pledged support to Hillary Clinton, prior to the Democratic Convention.

Now is the time to try one last attempt to convince Democrat Superdelegates to drop Obama and reform the Democratic Primary System an re-establish the rule of "equal representation".

http://politicallydrunk.blogspot.com/2008/07/136450-democrats-independents-against.html

Now that I think of it though, everyone that can in HI sends their kid to that school because HI's public schools are awful.

Champ

Just my opinion.
The best public schools beat the best private school in academics. Catholic schools are a good alternative to innercity public schools. But not to most suburban public schools. Other private religious schools are hiot and miss when compared to innercity public schools. You are taking a chance.

Jack

The Repugs will use the FUD factor this entire campaign.

fear - uncertainty - doubt

Obama needs to stay focused and, at the same time, respond quickly and forcefully.

Obama went to Columbia to finish his undergraduate degree. His father's Harvard connection doesn't register in terms of a "legacy" admission there.

An interesting state comparison chart on education.
Like I always say.
If we would just let the south have their freedom we would have the best schools in the world.

http://nationsreportcard.gov/reading_2007/r0005.asp?tab_id=tab2&subtab_id=Tab_1#chart

Jack

"In my many years on college campuses I never met a student who was, indeed, admitted with an affirmative action decision that wasn't qualified." - eprof2

I don't know what schools to which you are referring. I went to a large public state school, and there were plenty of people that had absolutely no business being there. A kid with whom I graduated, yes, WITH WHOM I GRADUATED, was not even functionally literate. It really pissed me off that he got the same piece of paper I did, and he could not even read or write in a remotely intelligible manner.

I was referring to colleges and universities where I labored for more than 34 years in WA, OR, and CA. I never witnessed a single student in my classes who could pass the courses and be "a functional illerate," affirmative action or otherwise. But, that may be because I can't read or write, either -- LOL!

Interesting indeed, Jack. Some states are getting crossed off my list of those to visit.

May I ask in what state you reside, or is that getting too personal? No problem if so, I'm kind of the same way, though I care less than I have in the past.

Well, I'll take your word for it, prof. My experience is somewhat different, but I just went to one school for 3 years. Still formed a few opionions in that time, as you may be able to perceive.

Thumbs up on WA and OR? I would assume so due to your extended tenure there. I thought you were in AZ because you do, or have drunk from an AZ state flag coffee mug.

I should just go and make up my own mind of course...

"The future is what matters. Another decade or two of allowing the maggots to hollow out the Constitution could make that already dicey future grim indeed. Avoiding it, if that is possible, means, first off, putting away the perfume and inhaling deeply of the stink. Doing so properly requires not the wussy, half-hearted, half-assed, wink-and-a-nod investigation that we’re all-too-familiar with, but a thorough, ruthless, hard-core, full-bore, no-questions-evaded probe that not only digs deep but also goes as far back as needed to get the whole picture, even if that means taking up where Frank Church left off 33 years ago."
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/7/28/194339/788/925/558443

I liked Senator Church a lot and worked on his Ohio primary campaign for President

Oh, and I didn't say he was functionally illiterate, I said he wasn't functionally literate; that is to say, not functional. The dude couldn't read or write. No function involved.

Maggots come with both Democratic and Republican affiliations, of course.

Champ,

I would give you a thumbs up on virtually anywhere in either the north or southwest. It just depends on what you like and what you want.

Springtime in the desert is magnificent, but the summers can be hell unless you thrive in heat. There are towns that get above it all in the mountains of AZ or NM. California is California - a magnificent ruined paradise. There is everything from alpine mountains to blistering desert, just wander around and see if anything suits. You're at least 40 years too late for perfection. Oregon and Washington are cool, wet and rather mild with areas on the eastern side that get really hot. The coast is beautiful and areas where there are heavy snow.

Wandering is good.

Good line, Jamie. You know which one.

KGC

This part of that article is rather scary,

"National Journal this morning listed Sunstein as one of a small handful of likely Supreme Court appointees in an Obama administration. But -- similar to Fein's point regarding Jay Rockefeller, Jane Harman and comrades -- Sunstein has long been one of the most vocal enablers of Bush radicalism and lawlessness, having continuously offered himself up over the last seven years to play the legal version of the TNR role of "even-liberal-Cass-Sunstein-agrees-with-Bush."

Maybe kinda funny; I almost bought a Jack Russell Terrier today. I wasn't thinking of the old Rockwell painting at the time, but I chuckled when I did.

OK, shutting up now...

More things to frighten you

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/7/27/121838/122

Champ

I make no secret of where I live. I live in Kansas City, MO.

The town is hide bound conservative in the old meaning of the word. The powers that be are very resistant to change. If we adopt it then it is proven technology.
Cheap living compared to the coasts. A diverse industrial and service sector. So someone is usually hireing. While our growth times are as spectacular as some places our bad time aren't as low.
If you are out looking for excitement , that is not us.
We are boring as all get out.
Talked to some folks who left Michigan, they said it is easy to find a job here compared to Michigan. The lady told me that folks that couldn't find a job around here just weren't trying. They should go to Michigan and see what real joblessness is like.

Jack

correction
While our growth times aren't as spectacular........

Jack

"While the McCain campaign will certainly be delighted with the results of the survey, several caveats bear mentioning. First, the poll's results are at variance with Gallup's daily tracking poll, which shows a 9 point lead for Obama. Second, although it is a Gallup poll, considered the gold standard of presidential polling, it is only one result and will likely change several times throughout the summer. Third, in the same poll, Sen. McCain is shown as trailing Obama among the larger group of registered voters by 3 points. Not all registered voters vote, however, and a lead among likely voters is generally considered by pollsters to be more significant as an indicator of the eventual election outcome.

The Obama campaign can take comfort in some of those same caveats, but the poll's result has to be very troubling for the Illinois Senator's effort. The campaign has been talking openly of preparing for a presidential transition and has been chastised recently by reporters for acting too much like a White House in waiting. Besides serving as a dose of reality for a campaign that has perhaps been flying a little too high, the result should spur the Obama campaign to take a serious look at its message. Obama has been primarily basing his appeal on his personal judgment and potential. But voters tend to vote on specifics, and the Obama campaign has been short on the kinds of concrete plans that voters typically look for from presidential candidates. In other words, Obama will have to demonstrate to voters that he is more than just an eloquent speaker to win the election."
http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2008/07/28/gallup-poll-shows-mccain-ahead-of-obama/

Champ, I taught in all three states, 16 in WA, 7 in OR, and 12 in CA. I'm now retired in AZ down on the desert southeast of PHX where my wife and her large family grew up. I knew when I met my wife I would have to move to AZ eventually, which we did four years ago. I find beauty in every place I've lived. So, I can adapt fairly easily to new and interesting surroundings quickly. That's why I enjoy traveling, too.

Rasmussen Reports, which has been the hottest reported yesterday that its daily tracking poll shows that "Barack Obama's Berlin bounce is fading." Rasmussen said its weekend polling showed Mr. Obama with a 3-point lead, well within the margin of error

Toney
what myou want to take a look at are their definition of likely voter, That and statistical variation are the reason for the difference.

Jack

Or
They are willing to ruin their reputation to cook the books for McCain,

~~~~~~~~~~yea, thats the ticket.~~~~~~~

Jack

OMG - Dictatorship anyone?

You don't want to know the language I used after reading this one:

"The president must have the legal flexibility to detain those against whom there is credible, actionable intelligence but not enough evidence to bring charges."

USA Today poll done to achieve a certain outcome?

Why yes Mr.Interlocutor, it questioned likely voters as opposed to registered voters.

McCain ‘Gallups’ Forward, Obama Slips On His Behind

"I know the Republicans haven’t come out with much ammunition against him yet. But let’s be realistic, you know they’re laying low ’cause they’re still afraid of Hillary at the Convention. Right? They know if she’s the nominee, they are toast. So they’re gonna play possum through August 29th.

But after Labor Day - let the games begin!!

If Senator Obama is performing this poorly in the polls with his huge financial and press advantage and rock star treatment, I wonder what will happen when ..."

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/07/28/mccain-gallups-forward-obama-slips-on-his-behind/

Jack
I guess I just don't understand polling.How do they decide who the likely voters are?

Tony

They have to rely on the person's word, but there is a series of questions about their voting history and whether or not they are likely to vote in the next election. Any not likely are eliminated from the figures.

When they call registered voters without any screening then the numbers are less precise as to whether or not they will be voting.

Tony

ask and you shall receive.

http://www.pollster.com/faq/how_do_pollsters_select_likely_1.php

Jack

Jamie Jack
Thankyou!!

"McCain wasn't the client."

~~~~my how terrible, then they will even commit fraud to help McCain~~~~~

Jack

Some of the findings in the USA/Gallop poll, make of them what you will-- as always its in the "eyes of the beholder".

"The poll showed a surge since last month in 'likely Republican voter '& suggested Obama's trip may have helped energize voters who favor McCain."

Frank Newport said: "Registered voters are much more important at the moment: He said McCain's lead among likely voters suggests 'the possiblity's there that Republicans can get energized."

To determine whether they were likely voters,poll participants were asked how much thought they had given the election, how often they voted in the past & whether they plan to vote this fall. McCain's gain came because there was an even number of likely voters from each party.

Last month, the Democrats had an 11 point edge.

Nearly 2 months after the Democrats' pitched primary battle ended, more Republicans than Democrats say they are 'giving quite a lot of thought' to the election.

Newport said differences in this poll & the Gallup tracking poll over the same 3 days were inevitable in 2 polls conducted simultaneously but were within the margin of error.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-07-28-poll_N.htm

Or in Gallup's case
because they give 18 to 20 year olds an automatic point it skews to them.

Jack

Jack

I just noticed the democratic governors race, Jay Nixon has dropped in the polls, but is still leading both of the republicans running against him. The ads have increased for all of them in the couple of weeks, maybe that is one of the reasons. What do you think about this race?
Julie

Here's to ya, eprof2.

...very familiar with Missouri, Jack. Let me be succinct: **** STL. Forever. I'm down with KC, though.

Julie
I was suprised by the numbers too.
He was around 40% as was the generic Republican.

While Nixon hangs on to the AG job he has always fallen flat everytime he has tried to run for higher office. people know him and he has more than his share of people that don't like him. Nobody knows the 2 running on the Republican ticket. Steelman is a state wide candidate but who remembers the state treasurer, unless they leave with all the money. The other candidate Hulshof is a congressman in the StLouis area but not well known anywhere else. To me the poll reflected the state of Missouri politics. We are split down the middle and the swing voters will decide any election in this state. So far 20% don't have a choice. So anything could happen.

BTW what do you think of the way Roberts and Slattery are slaming each other with their ads. It is an early election season. Gonna get real tired of them by november.

Jack
Jack

Champ - One more idea to consider in your searach, if you haven't ever or recently read Travels with Charlie by Steinbeck, why not give it a shot?

Also, curious as to what St Louis done to you?

NEW THREAD

I'll give you one guess, boop.

It allowed you to be born?

Jack

Women. Nuff said. G'night.

Wake up Democrats. We need to win this election!

Clinton-Gore 2008

Champ - the only guess I can make that isn't wild is baseball. You hate the Cards? Other than that..............

You did mention Mizzou once - did you go there? Did you grow up in St. Louis?

Anyway, Champ, I was dead serious re Travelw with Charley. One other idea is to decide which direction you think you might be interested in finding out about, and start driving.

When are you going to take off, and will you be able to keep in touch?

My darling boy is fine again today, but still a little whiney.

This new fire by Yosemite is southwest of there, but still too close to our vacation spot. It's all gettin' scary. We need winter!