Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Morning Craig--This is fascinating information. So contrary to the way the media presented the primary with their constant cries for Hillary to get out of the race.
Looking at the polls this morning Obama in the end may need Hillary to salvage his chances. And of course a roll call would not be helpful in view of these polls. Frankly I love it!

Yes! Craig -- thank you for writing what I've been thinking all along here. Obama
s victory night came only after that long afternoon of releasing the names of superd's that flipped to him, one by one. And they can always flip back. As far as die hards go -- that term makes it seems like there's just a small cadre of embittered crones -- when in fact it's 18 million people -- the majority of people who voted in the primaries. There are some who have resigned themselves to Obama, but they will come racing back to Hillary if given the chance.

sturgeone: committed diehard for hillary, (watching for the old August roll call), who will vote democrat in november.

I don't think they'll ever allow a roll call vote, though.

has ms. brazille resigned yet?

If Obama keeps falling in the polls by the time Denver convention comes those "SUPERDELEGATES" worrying about getting reelected in November mite have wished they picked Hillary Soprano to be the nominee. But it's to late now.

VJ Machiavelli
http://www.vjmachiavelli.blogspot.com
ps nobody can save the Democ"rat"ic Party from defeat come this November.

Keep clutching to those Hillary straws.

The chances for a roll call vote are probably slim to none--it seems that the Obama campaign has serious concerns about just how secure they feel
their candidate is, as evidenced by this TPM article by a Theda Skocpol, Harvard professor, who takes issue with Clinton supporters failure to jump on the Obama express--it seems that those not getting on board should feel guilty for their failure to do so.

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/07/11/can_progressives_unite_or_will/

FYI, during the primary, Ms. Skocpol wrote other unflattering comments about Hillary

And the New Yorker cover apparently has caused the
Obama camp to address its anger about it--already
this a.m., Harold Ford appeared on Today show to
tamp down any impact, together with Andrea Mitchell
reporting on it, with a visual of the cover as well.

What are the chances that the cable shows will ignore
this latest dust-up.

"this TPM article by a Theda Skocpol, Harvard professor, who takes issue with Clinton supporters failure to jump on the Obama express--it seems that those not getting on board should feel guilty for their failure to do so."

ROFL. I feel guilty when I go to bed and forget to leave a full bowl of cat food out.

I will not feel guilty for having supported the candidate who best could have led this country.

I clutch 'em as I see 'em.......sans souci, all the way. What are you clutching?

I would love a roll call vote. And, if Mr Obama had an ounce of personal courage, he would welcome one.

didnt see sans souci in the dict. but it's a street name hear which I've been told means without discontent.....as to "clutching" i see it more as a firm grip than a clutch.......it's all in the words, words which, of course, mean something..........

rats.

here.

has ms. brazille resigned yet?

Posted by: patd | July 14, 2008 7:17 AM

This is one thing I have been anxiously waiting for. Well the time is allready there... The wait is almost over. I realy want to be the one to give her the pen so she could resign...

Anyway,
I feel the die hards should give it a rest. Let her be. She endorsed BO, let it be.
This round was for BO, our time is coming. Have faith....

Craig
Thanks for that.Its shows me yet again why i feel as i do about the Democrats and their un-democratic rules.OBama was selected not elected and the best person for the job was cast aside and constantly told to get out of the way of 'The One".Feeling guilty for not falling in line..HELL NO

she endorsed BO after she didnt endorse BO.....maybe she'll not endorse BO after she endorsed BO after she didnt endorse BO.......politics is politics.........August will tell the tale.....(a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury signifying nothing, etc.....)

lol. it's all funny.

The truth will set you free...thanks for the truth, Craig. I guess I shouldn't be surprised about how contrived the dem process really is.

Off to work...I wish I had more time, but still love to read the posts.

"as to "clutching" i see it more as a firm grip than a clutch......."

And, as in "get a grip," Bye Bye.

Coreen,

Thanks for your missive on Chap 13 housing bankruptcies.
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/07/blogs-on-a-roll.html#comment-114726

I think I understand the points you are making--they are well thought out and reflect an advocate's understanding of the mortgage situation and pragmatic solutions that will be supportive of those about to be tossed out of their homes.

I would still prefer seeing the agreed to debt remain, but interest rates rolled back to those charged preferred borrowers with the government guaranteeing that the mortgage holder will receive payment. I simply don't like the idea of the government taking one party's legally acquired assets and giving them to another party.

Although FMVs of housing are terribly depressed in many areas, history has shown that housing prices will rebound, albeit in a matter of years rather than months. Revaluing the bank's asset, although logical in your comment, still leaves me deeply concerned, especially since the debtor will retain the revalued asset.

The whole subject of interest rates deeply concerns me. Usury concepts and laws need to be revisited. I think each lender, no matter the type of loan, should be required to provide a 'Usury Rating' running from A to F depending on how they screw borrowers.

This morning's print Journal has a nice section talking about what one needs to do if faced with having to sell a house _right now_.

for BO to take it all at the convention he will have to politically defeat or (co-opt) the clintons......
it's politics, and he is where he is now, according to some, because he out-politicked the clintons.....
we (los diehards) begin to see and long have felt that it aint over yet......more politics in store.........

If he's going to win......he'll have to WIN. To try and suggest in any way that everyone should just fall in when the vote was an 18 million / 18 million split is to fly in the face of reality....everyone fell in behind kerry...........maybe some are tired of "just falling in" and hoping for the best.
still..........it's all very high comedy.

Hi Gang,

I really love all you early morning Trail Mixers (mostly), people like
Alicia, Jason, Patsi, padt, Flatus, sturgeone,tonyb39, and the ones
I don't know as well like Coreen and jane. . .anyway, hello. . .

Great post, Craig. I knew that Obama and his surrogates had trashed
the superdelegates until Obama suddenly realized his only chance
was to win them over.

Roll call, please!!

This is the main reason that I was upset about the Obama camp reaction when she didn't immediately concede the election on the last primary night with the count down of the SDs switching at the same time as the votes were being reported.

While I don't expect it to happen, the reality is that between now and the end of August if something big blew up, those same SDs could change their votes. Talk about reasons not to have a roll call.

Whether they like it or not, the easiest way to avoid all the sturm and drang of ugly possibilities to simply put her on the ticket for instant cohesion and enthusiasm rather than half enthusiasm and half "do I bother to get out of bed?" resignation.

"...it's all very high comedy"

One person's comedy is another's drama, and yet another's tragedy.

Sturg, should we hold a parallel convention nominating Mrs Clinton by acclimation? Who should she choose as her running mate?

Hi Jamie, (I didn't see you were signed in yet)

I agree with you about the fact "they" should just put Hillary on the ticket.
I continue to believe the real reason Obama is reluctant to pick Hillary
as his running mate is not only as he says, Bill, but that he's afraid
Hillary will upstage him.

And I think the reason Camp Obama continued to insist Hillary drop out
is that they were afraid of her and the power she has with voters (the power
she still has). Don't you think?

Im getting a vision of the Avignon Pope.......hmmmmm

maybe Al Gore will be elected by acclamation at the convention.....to squash all the non-productive squabbling.......

Hillary's pick for VP ? I guess obama would be out......

mel brooks on the difference between comedy and tragedy:

If YOU are walking along and fall into a pit-trap with a hungry tiger in it and he starts gnawing on your leg-------That's Comedy.

If I get a paper cut........that's tragedy.

hard to write out the way he said it but if you can imagine old mel...........

Jamie,

As Obama continues his VP search, it seems so silly, since Hillary is
the most qualified, the most charismatic, simply the best Democratic
for the job.

I don't think that together Obama and Clinton could lose.

DogsEye.....that sounded a tad bitter......

Flatus,

My concerns in yesterday's discussion w/Katherine were related to my basic premise regarding the candidates who want to become President & the absence of them addressing real issues affecting reall people, I continue to ask:

Who speaks for the middle class?

My clients tend to be middle class working families who have fallen into the credit trap.

I do not see either candidate addressing issues that affect working america, rather we continue to be distracted with the flip-flop "scandals" & fake outrage--as evidenced with the latest flap about the New Yorker cover.

Some of us out here on "Main Street" do not see the housing/mortgage crisis bottoming out in the forseeable future.

Paul Krugman today's NYT "Fannie, Freddie & You" tries to put things in perspective.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/14/opinion/14krugman.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&oref=slogin

Threre are also 2 good articles on the front page of NYT but I can not link to more than 1 item.

1. Treasury unveils vast plan to save mortgage giants

2. Government as big lender

Why do the Obama supporters (fan club) seem to feel any positive conversation
about Hillary is fantasy or ridiculous. Doesn't that seem a bit narrow minded?

If there were no SDs, Sen. Obama still wins by 127 pledged delegates plus picking up another 21 from the Edwards endorsement. It's not a clear cut "total votes needed" victory, but it is a legitimate plurality.

I'm not sure how those numbers would have come out if all the party shenanigans of weighted districts had been in play and I won't go on another rant about the inherent inequality in the caucus states, let's just leave it at a win is a win. What is causing the trouble is that this one is so darn close between two really high powered candidate with two intensely partisan groups of supporters.

The choice is simple, create a deep rift in the party structure with hard feelings that could well endure for years with factions perfectly willing to snipe and snarl, or unify and however strange the bedfellows, make love not war.

The choice is simple, create a deep rift in the party structure with hard feelings that could well endure for years with factions perfectly willing to snipe and snarl, or unify and however strange the bedfellows, make love not war.
--jamie

hey.......just like blogs........

typo:

I meant Hillary is the best Democrat for the VP job.

Coreen
Thanks a lot for your very infomative posts. The most disappointing part of the proposed bailouts it the lack of bailout for the homeowners. I appreciate the concern for the banking institutions but what about the people being throw out of their houses.

In the Bay area rental costs have skyrocketed yet their are hundreds of houses standing empty, blighting neighborhoods and devaluing the remaining properties. There is something very wrong with this picture.

Obama's VP search

While I agree with the comments (Jamie & Marcia) that Hillary is by far the most qualified candidate, the reality is she was out manuevered by the Obama team &--- I really do not want Hillary to be his VP candidate.

If the conventional wisdom is correct that it is inevitable that Obama will become President, then let him & his team solve the problems facing us.

BO: announce Hillary's selection as VP before your trip. Result--all the love you can handel at home and abroad--no convention problems--and the boost you will need to win.

Sturge,

Thanks for the translation on san souci. There's a bar and restaurant bearing that name in Scotia, New York, and I'll confess to never having left there discontented.

It was a favorite haunt of an umpiring buddy, who died in a fire a few years ago, and stopping there brings back fond memories.

From my morning read.

"Ex-congressman finds second career as international arms trader"

http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/node/9205

Jack

Pick up your morning paper. Go to the local section and observe any of the problems in your community, and then contemplate that People Magazine has paid at least 11 million dollars to Brangelina for pictures of their twins.

I hope that money is going to their charitable work in Africa. Otherwise, the money is obscene. When you consider what it says about the values of our society that wants to see them on the cover of People, it is still obscene.

I strongly hope HRC will not be on any long or shortlist for VP by BO.....

The Cynthia McKinney story was big news yesterday in Holland. They connected her to Ralph Nader and the stolen election from 2000.... Will DNC again be the loser?

Anyway,
Saturday is my birthday and I asked God for a present. The present involves Ms.Brazile :))

Pick up your morning paper. Go to the local section and observe any of the problems in your community, and then contemplate that People Magazine has paid at least 11 million dollars to Brangelina for pictures of their twins.

Posted by: Jamie | July 14, 2008 9:22 AM

LOL LOL LOL LOL
Jamie, I hear you. But this is a business.
Nicole Richie got 5 million, Christina Aguilear got 4.5 Million, Jennifer Lopez got a reported 6 million....So be prepared...if Madonna anounces that she is pregnant at 50 she will get 30 million..

Where are we going to?????

Jack, it seems the war on terror is having the opposite effect..

good morning gang.....

had a wonderful weekend in Concord Massachusetts at the annual Thoreau Society Meeting..... lots of great discussions with some wonderful people....

one of the main topics for discussion this year was whether John Brown's acts of violence were justified or terrorists acts..... it was fun hearing highly educated people trying to wrestle with it....

I no longer care about the horse race..... what will happen will happen....

I care about the issues that face this country ..... I've heard over and over again on numerous discussions on NPR that neither of the presumptive nominees has a sound economic plan..... this is not acceptable, IMO...

Jason,

The state where the McKinney candidacy could be interesting is Georgia. Bob Barr will be running as a Libertarian. If he peels off even a small percentage of the Republican vote, then the state could go to Obama. If McKinney and the Green party (where a lot of disaffected Hillary voters have said they might go) then that would negate the Barr vote and the state could go McCain.

It will be interesting to watch the numbers for this very, very southern state.

Katherine,

Tthanks to you & Flatus for enduring with my opinions about this election season. I sometime think I sound Cassandra-like in my comments.

I agree that the proposed bailout will in all likelihood really benefit the banks that engineered the crisis--one can only hope that some stressed homeowner's will benefit as well.

Yes, there is something wrong with the picture, but then again cynic that I am--"they just want our vote", then it's business as usual.

The quick Treasury response to the fannie & freddie mac crisis illustrates just how serious this issue really is.

Jamie, only Georgia?

"This is the main reason that I was upset about the Obama camp reaction when she didn't immediately concede the election on the last primary night "

Precisely, Jamie. That drumbeat actually started around the time Obama won Iowa...(only half kidding....)

All you needed to do was invoke Thoreau. let's put it in perspective.
Recap of this week’s news
The coral reefs continue to die. Bees continue to die. Some alerts were broadcast on the extinction of some exotic species like Gorillas and Orangutans. Salmonella cases increased as Koreans continue to protest the importation of US beef. Stop-Loss continues to drive the military recruitment process. Bush says no to the G8’s weak goal for CO2 emissions and sardonically described the US as the greatest polluter. A court case regarding pollution had a surprise ruling in favor of increased emissions effectively reducing the authority of an EPA which has been unable to use the authority it does have. The housing crisis deepened with the strain of failed and risky mortgages extending into Fannie and Freddie;The administration will borrow money to purchase the stock. The stock market declined sharply as a result, along with portfolios and investment capital. Worldwide suicides by farmers are up as the life expectancy of a US citizen is down. Passage of the Medicare bill to increase doctor’s payments was a blow to those who are hoping to privatize the plan. The Justice Department’s chief, Mukasey, displayed a remarkable disregard for the concerns of Congress in saying he did not think that the OPR investigators needed to call Karl Rove in connection with his role in the Siegelman prosecution and with his point blank refusal to look into the legality of torture practices past or present. Guam made it known again that its sub-citizens are still concerned about the devalued notion of legitimate consent of the governed; the same devaluation of legitimacy which is expanding as the empire (economic interest) grows. The Dollar declined along with employment.
In entertainment news: Kucinich’s single article of impeachment of GWB may actually be debated on the House floor as per Speaker Polosi; the Supremes continue vacationing; Angelina had her twins.
In sports: Jessie Jackson and Phil Gramm lost their seats on the bus as the NL East heats up.
In our interesting facts department we see that the World Bank hasn’t a clue what micro-lending is and the number of hungry people (women and children) rose 2 million this year to 854,000,000; someone (a child) starves to death every 5 seconds.
Flobot teams up with the Simpsons for our commentary.
http://www.truveo.com/Handlebars-Flobots-Simpsons-remix/id/2098510810

"If I get a paper cut........that's tragedy."

That's great!

Coreen

You are on the frontlines of the biggest crisis we are facing. The costs of the foreclosures etc. the feds could have bailed out all the subprime mortages instead and I think the result would have been better but when it began the mood was to punish borrowers who were "greedy or "stupid."

The feds can act very quickly when it needs to for a BIG BANK or BIG INSTITUTION (or to pander to the right wing) but help out a million plus homeowners NO thanks.

OMG! Nick -- that's perfect! I listened to every word of it.

The Beatles foretold this in 1965
"I'm Looking Through You"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiRbZ5R1q2M&feature=related

Coleen,

Just read the major page one Times article. Here's what I would do with F&F:

--Securitize their outstanding shares. By this I mean, convert those shares to long-term (100-year) bonds, subordinate to every other debt of F&F. Securitization (conversion) should be done at Friday's closing share price.

--Have the government (you pick the agency) take direct control of F&F becoming the sole common share holder of the equity of both entities.

--Grant 'full faith' status to every secured debt of F&F with the exception of the securitized shares.

--Have a moratorium on foreclosure of every owner-owned property under foreclosure, and on apartments having greater than 75-pct occupancy.

Using the figures in the article, F&F have a combined net worth of $1.5 trillion. I find that hard to believe given the drop in FMVs.

A super vid to brighten Monday morning,

julie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adYbFQFXG0U

Oops, apologies Coreen

"Doesn't that seem a bit narrow minded?"

Just consider the sources, Marcia.

I still say that if Hillary is on that ticket, the first time he receives any sort of threat -- some O-worshiper will kill her.

http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/node/9205

Great! And the last line of the article Jack linked:

"Good to know there's still a place for America's worst congressmen."

Just read Krugman's piece on page A17. I think he's too timid. He accepts heads they win, tails we lose as being a reasonable state. I don't.

"one of the main topics for discussion this year was whether John Brown's acts of violence were justified or terrorists acts..... it was fun hearing highly educated people trying to wrestle with it...."

Renee -- that's the very conversation Jamie and I had back some threads ago...good to know that great minds think alike and all that, huh Jamie? Ha...

Patsi,

I didn't follow that line of comments. What was the conclusion?

mornin' all.

jamie, they were reporting on MoJo this morning that the $11M for the twins' pics is going to the Pitt-Jolie charities. I hope that's right. While it may be obscene, with all the sh*t happening here and abroad that the US is either driving or just in the middle of, $11M for a little entertainment in the form of a couple cute newborns of the most popular couple in the world doesn't seem all that bad an expenditure to me - hell Congress should fund it - it would be just about the best $11M they appropriate in this congress.. Of course I won't be buying a copy 'cuz I really couldn't care less, but there will be a lot of them in dentists' waiting rooms, college dorms and trailer parks.

Listen, I predict that Obama won't touch Hillary witha 10 foot pole for his VP choice. The joint appearances and air kisses are the closest she'll come to being on the ticket with him. It might make sense to us, but I don't see that happening in his or her lifetimes.

Renee, being a southern boy and growing up in history classes that depicted John Brown as a crazy old coot and criminal, I'm curious - how was he viewed historically in history classes in the the states that were in the Union?

"It will be interesting to watch the numbers for this very, very southern state."

Jamie -- Georgia will indeed be interesting. Aging Hipster always said he believed it was in play. And he was/is one of the O-supporters who was clear-eyed and didn't just post to advance his agenda.

Coreen, thanks for you always thoughtful posts! Wanted to say that now if I hadn't before!

Flatus, based on the stuff I heard last week, the $5.5T figure that is attributred to F&F as their net worth is based not on the FMV of the properties their mortgages secure, but on the actual amount of the mortgage debt underlying those mortgages.

Jason,

While other states are battlegrounds, Georgia is interesting simply because of changes in its demographics and the fact that if a black man wins the state, it will be a whole new world as far as the US in concerned.

Religion as a criterion for presidential qualification is pretty well behind us. If Georgia flips, you can say the whole idea of racism is finally dying a well deserved death.

Now about that woman thing?

Posted by: pogo | July 14, 2008 10:02 AM

In Ohio --John Brown is a hero.

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/johnbrown/brownbody.html

" didn't follow that line of comments. What was the conclusion?"

Flatus -- the only kind of conslusion possible -- none!

Actually we were talking about social change -- so people like John Brown bring it about to a more or lesser extent than governmental powers, ie, even Lincoln. You can look to so many revolutions and see parallels. Most important, possibly, the unification of Italy. But in the end, while it is a great conversation to have...all things fit together.

I do think Brown was about half crazy, but then, many on the front end of social change are.

In my part of the country, out in Western Kansas, he was thought of as the guy who kept the slavers out of our state.

Truly beautiful, thanks Julie

Pogo,

Of course, their assets are their portfolios of debt. The point I was trying to make is that the value of that debt has decreased as decreasing FMVs reduce the value of the debt because the debt-equity ratios of the secured properties has deteriorated making the debt more risky and, therefore, less valuable.

I should fix the typos in that John Brown post...conclusion, for one!

and "do people" instead of "so people"

Off to the Verizon store to get my new phone changed over....

Flatus,

Your suggestions to shore up fannie & freddie are probably just as valid as the treasury's plan, do you want to run for office?

The Treasury action has so far this a.m. calmed the stock market--it achieved its intended goal, so far.

Krugman may be timid but his conclusion is the reality, taxpayer's pay--goes back to my on-going question-who speaks for the middle class?

Flatus, I don't disagree - I was just commenting on where I understood the number to come from. Considering that their assets are debt - repackaged debt at that - they are undoubtedly grossly overstated.

KC, I figured he would be viewed as a hero, even if he wasn't playing with all 51 cards, by the members of the union in what I heard referred to in Virginia as the War of Northern Aggression.

John Brown and Ohio

http://www.ohiohistorycentral.org/entry.php?rec=486

which also explains why we always have salmon and peas on patriotic holidays (inside joke)

Come on, Craig. A Dem roll call would be great. Just think of the confusion that'd cause. And in a surprise vote, Clinton might win. Chaos galore.

tt

Additional info

George Adamson who is mentioned in the story about the animal refuge is the same one who along with his wife Joy introduced the lioness Elsa to the wild and then wrote about her in "Born Free"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Born_Free

Craig, thank you for this fine post!

There is still time to keep the democratic party democratic! Please visit http://thedenvergroup.blogspot.com/

Levez-vous, Hillary, levez-vous!

Happy Bastille Day, everyone! You kids have fun storming the castle!

Actually I think Hillary, and her supporters, have the right to receive a "roll call" vote on record of the delegates supporting her. Unless Mr. Obama's supporters are nervous about his chances, they shouldn't worry about it. Assuming the delegates remain split as they are, it will simply let those who support Hillary to be counted as part of the official record at the convention. And it will remind everyone just how close the primaries ended up in terms of votes and delegates.

That's my take.

Brown must have been influenced by Civil Disobedience. Thoreau had little tolerance for those who did not act in support of their beliefs. He even chided Emerson for being on the wrong side of the bars.

Err, that would be 52 cards. KC, I guess they really liked that 4th paragraph - so much so they repeated it as the 6th paragraph.

HEADS UP REMINDER

For those who enjoy well written dramas, The Closer and Saving Grace start their new seasons tonight on TNT

Obama supporters & others as well:

In his own words---"My Plan for Iraq"

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/14/opinion/14obama.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&oref=slogin

Look at this. Even if ya don't like the guy, the cover is horrible especially for folks who just look at that and nothing else. WTH's the matter with the New Yorker, now?

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/07/14/obama.cover/

tt

Remember all that talk about how refreshing it would be to have a meaningful convention? The only thing that stands between Hillary and the nomination is 175 super delegates. (It would be fewer than 100 if the DNC RBC had adhered to its own rules on May31.)
I find it frightening that Dean & Co. are trying to engineer a convention that denies the truth of where the Democratic party really stands in a vain attempt to portray unity that doesn’t exist. They are scared to death about what might happen if Hillary's name is put in nomination and the super delegates cast their vote in secret ballot. Do we really know at this point who the nominee would be?
The DNC's motive for staging the nomination acceptance at a venue other than the convention isn’t fooling anyone. What the press should be examining is the following question: How can a man afraid to face his opponent's supporters confront the rigors of the presidency?
Obama doesn’t seem capable of delivering the money he promised both the party and the down-ticket candidates or of taking a principled and consistent stand on any issue of importance. Hillary’s base (which is huge) isn't buying what he's selling; they are not going to donate any time soon and may very well take a principled stand themselves by not voting democratic in November. Have I forgotten to mention how full the RNC’s coffers are and the conservative 527’s which haven’t even started with the light artillery, never mind the big guns? No wonder the DNC is afraid that some super delegates may be suffering buyer’s remorse.

Is it any wonder that the only battle that the DNC’s power brokers and Obama are willing to fight is the one that keeps Hillary’s name out of nomination? It’s just another instance of those who know what’s best for us gaming an election for our own good. We should be used to it by now.

Sniff.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/15/business/worldbusiness/15beer.html?hp

What next, the Chrysler building? Oh, wait, too late.

Yet another innumerate analysis from Crawford.

Obama did not win BECAUSE OF superdelegates.

If there were no superdelegates, he would have clinched the nomination on May 20.

What happened is that Obama did not LOSE because of superdelegates.

Crawford is still shilling for Clinton after Clinton dropped out.

Posted by: pogo | July 14, 2008 10:44 AM

hey sometimes things are worth saying twice :))))))))

Pogo

Will there be a layoff of the Clydesdales?

Geek

Look at the numbers. As I mentioned above. Without the SDs he has a plurality but not the nomination according to the number of delegates required.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/07/dem-superdelegates-rule-after.html#comment-114934

Well i just got around to reading yesterday's thread (yes, i do try to take weekends off now and then).

Nick surely did get out of line with the vulgar insults. I don't get it. Nick, you add good stuff in comments, and wish you would stick to that. I love vigorous debate, but blasting others with f-bombs and the like is no good.

[Update 3:15 PM -- Nick's July 13-14 comments have been deleted]

Craig

So what car did you choose?

My wife really liked the zip and handleing of the Mazda she test drove. I roade along and it felt sporty. However, the price was a bit out of our range so we ended up with a Ford focus program car that had all the extras she wanted and about $6000 less. She likes the Focus but I think she fell inlove with the Mazda

Jack

Me too Craig,

Jamie wasn't doing anything but making conversation and using "Pithy" comments. That one came out of left field.

I hope Nick can come down to see that Jamie is a respected person on this blog. She has proven herself to be civil and so attacking her like that was wrong.

I just had to come and back her up.

Gotta go--a great big giant slurpy lion kiss to you all.

jack, we went used -- the mazda and subaru are well-priced for new cars, but too darn small -- so gave up the mid-life crisis sporty cars for a conservative 3-year-old "embrace-your-maturity" sedan -- Nissan Maxima, which feels like twice the car for less money than the spffy new Mazdaspeed3

jamie, a layoff, no. The Clydesdales' hours will be reduced to make time for the Lippizaners to pull the beer truck. The Clydesdales will likely organize a strike.

The Lippizaners can teach the Clydesdales to dance, but I wouldn't suggest doing it while harnessed to that wagon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vY3wmWT-sb8

Should make for interesting commercials.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aWzuQ1ufGs

What really happened yesterday was that instead of allowing Jamie and Nick to fight that out, it became a group thing than Nick didn't deal with well. Then people were coming on and being positively orgasmic that he's had a "Melt down" -- calling it funny.

He was out of line, IMO, but there's a methodical and malignant egging on that occurs here. I can picture some of this crowd in the Coliseum. "OH, lolol, the lions have eaten another Christian!"

Craig, can you explain to Geek, Esq. how the candidate selection process works? He seems to think Obama clinched something on May 20.

chezmadame, please don't attribute the Esq. designation to "Geek". As hard as this may be to believe, it is an insult to lawyers.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/07/dem-superdelegates-rule-after.html#comment-115015

chezmadame -- Geek, esq. surely meant that on May 20 Obama had a plurality of the pledged delegate vote (as Jamie notes above), as that is far different than "clinching" the 2,118 delegates needed to win. That only came with adding on superdelegate endorsements.

Hi folks!
'50s in MN: John Brown was a violent visionary/delusional fanatic who chose wrong means to achieve a good end. Used as a cautionary tale. My ancestors were Unionists. Thank God for Alexander Ramsey and Josiah Wood ! And, thank God for Thaddeus Stevens, Ohio's titan of ethics !

As a former Edwards now pro-Obama guy, I think an old fashioned roll call would be fun. Some of the best theater in American history came in conventions and roll call votes. I vividly remember the sound of a delegate dramatically drawling out the name of "John W.......SPARKmaaaaaan" And the lights going out as the Stevenson rally erupted in 1960 (I, think but not sure, Stevenson wanted to hide how few delegates he had). And, Nixon's balloon drop in 1968 that wowwed everyone then, but has become a cliche & boring waste of time and petroproducts.

Oh, got it. If Geek, Esq. ever runs for office, maybe you can play the role of the guy who explains "what he really meant." The Obama campaign already has that position filled. ;)

Craig,

I can't condone Nick's comments, but empathize with his frustration. At first glance it seems like there is an informed debate going on here, but after a while, the childishness and lack of tolerance for divergent ideas becomes clear.

As inappropriate as vulgarity may be, it is, in my opinion, less offensive than the mob mentality that shouts down dissent, refers to other ideologies as "regustlican" (or any other quasi-clever bastardizations of that word), or the declarations of future dismissal of another's posts (another type of attempt to eradicate dissent).

It's not as much of a marketplace of ideas here, as it is a playground where bullies rule. That certainly not the host's fault; it's more like sad commentary on human nature.

Just a thought. Oh, and get a WRX STI. That would be awesome. Competitor to the Lancer I mentioned, and comes in hatchback.

Thereau paints a much different picture of John Brown as well as a photo in which he appears "quite pleasant."

http://my.uen.org/mydocuments/downloadfile?userid=matthomas&documentid=3049405.

"The Clydesdales'"

Many years ago I was working for an Arabian horse trainer near Fort Worth. We took most of our customer's horses to the Fort Worth Livestock Show and Rodeo. The horses were entered in the Arabian Horse Show that went with the big event. Budweiser had one of the teams there for the show.

I was not paying attention one afternoon as I walked down the middle alley that led into the big arena. All of a sudden I heard the clopping of the hooves and rattling of their harnesses. All I could see were two very big horses cloppied clopping down the isle followed by 6 more Clydesdale horses pulling the big War Wagon. They were about 10 feet from me and did not seem to be making any effort to stop. When I realized that I was about to be run over, I somehow was able to jump sideways and press myself up against the alley wall. I think I lost maybe 5 years off my life with that episode.

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

jamie, of course it should be pretty easy for the Clydesdales to schedule their dance lessons since one of the Lippizaner stables is in Oviedo, FL, just a click over 1000 miles from St. Louis. They coud stay at Busch Gardens in Tampa, a mere 100 miles away.

Nick,

They call it the "high road", because most others opt for the easier route. Rise above.

xrepublican,

I always enjoyed the long drawn out state descriptions before casting the vote

umtyup state nationally famous for the best sandwich fillers, longest check stand waits, and home of the renowned low flying butterflies casts 1 and 1/2 votes for our favorite son, Julius Throckmorton Skeeter and 8 and 1/2 votes for the next President of the light of the world, the glorious United States of America Governor Bauregard Phippus Mistletoe.

I know this hasn't been discussed much this morning, but what did you all make of the Obama op-ed in the New York Times? Seems like we got an actual commitment out of him that will be hard to get out of....

Clydesdales will be sold in France. How does one say yum in French? ( :>D ]

Craig, one more thing. Do you think that Geek Esq.'s comment shows evidence of innumerancy? I hate to name call, but he is wrong about the numbers.

"I somehow was able to jump sideways and press myself up against the alley wall. I think I lost maybe 5 years off my life with that episode."

Doots -- Tanya Tucker has a couple of those huge horses...I believe the Busch people gave them to her. I had never been up close to them until one day out at her house, and I will say that their size up close and personal is overwhelming.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/07/dem-superdelegates-rule-after.html#comment-115027

Nick, i am not about to referee and measure the reasonableness of every response to every provocation around here -- I am merely saying that you used words against people in those comments that are beyond the pale. If you must do so, at least make it clear what you're mad at them about. I didn't get a clue about that in those comments I linked.

Not here to censor anyone, just telling you how I feel about it.

"but what did you all make of the Obama op-ed in the New York Times? "

Haven't read it, PoU -- but on your behalf, I will!

Nick

What champ said.

Plus, as my baby sister always found out, it is not the quiet dig of her older sister that gets one in trouble but the loud squawk of her reaction that got her in trouble everytime. Some days it is better to ignore all of it.
And yea, I know, I should listen to my own advise.

Some of those days I posted Youtubes was my attempt to avoid the sillyness around here.

Jack

It's Bastille Day? Hooray!

"and I will say that their size up close and personal is overwhelming."

they be big sobs no doubt I was breathing hard for the rest of the day to be sure.

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

Patsi: Let me know what you think!

Jamie,

I love it. May I quote you?

Nick: may I ask you, in all seriousness:

What is the issue with your family,or your parents, specifically?

You have reacted energetically a few times to comments from others that did not appear to me to be disrespectful.

What's up there?

Well the time period was earlier than Bastille Day, but the message was the same.

The Finale of Les Miserables

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk-4Vdp9_x0

Do You Hear The People Sing

and the by the way to all, it sure does help when you're in dialogue with someone else to include a link to the comment you are responding to. Sometimes I cannot follow someone's point reading a cryptic comment reacting to (or yelling at) someone else.

and rather than copy and paste long comments you want to address (one or two sentences are fine), just provide the link to that comment

it's easy to do: Click the highlighted date stamp to the right of the commenters screen name and your browswer creates a direct link to that comment in your address window. Copy that and paste it into your response -- would be a big help for those who are interested in understanding what you're talking about

Miam-miam is yum-yum in French.

Voila. Il y a des américains qui sont bilingue, malgré ce que Barak dit.

Vive la révolution!

The stadium appearance has technical problems.
The DNC has announced they want everyone to travel to the venue by bus. That's a last minute request for a lot of buses. I don't think I would like to be transporation manager for that....who is going to loan (rent) them enough buses. Denver isn't close to big population centers where buses could be borrowed.

Found the full version

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6-5g78Nr6Q&feature=related

xrepublican

Of course you may quote me. I love having my pithier silliness stolen.

Bringing buses in from Kansas etc is going to cost a lot of money not only for the buses but the gas to drive them back and forth...

Is it worth it to continue to try to look like JFK?

The super D’s would have had to rule for Clinton to have gotten the nomination as well, so I don’t know why there is much to do about Obama needing them. After all, it was the Clinton camp nagging the super D’s on a daily basis. Some have commented that they received calls more than once a day. Why didn’t that work?

Heidi Feldman, the co founder of the The Denver Group and the woman interviewed in the Clinton Diehards Want Convention Vote posted above by Craig, will be appearing on Fox, Neil Cavuto at 4 today. There is still time! Levez-vous, Hillary, Levez -vous!

Pogo...
I think the consensus in the Northeast is that John Brown was a hero..... a lot of people at the discussion ( which took place in the Masonic Temple of which Paul Revere was a member) took a more conservative view of him as a man who committed violence for a heroic idea..... but that didn't necessarily make him a hero.....

an interesting fact about Lippizaners is that they are all born black and start to turn white around 7-8 yrs of age.... if they come to your area.... I highly recommend going to see their act.... they truly are the ballerinas of the horse world.....

champ..... excellent post at 11:53am.... IMO....
the lack of tolerance for another's point of view has become quite childish around here lately.....

Gee I must have missed the rules about when you are allowed to comment. on a subject Must be another slow day at the kiddy pool.

"they be big sobs no doubt I was breathing hard for the rest of the day to be sure."

Doots, I can't even imagine having them running at you. My uncle's racing quarter horses used to charge me when they broke out of the fence, and I can still remember making a beeline for the house....hell, even the chicken house, or the dog house!

“I must have missed the rules about when you are allowed to comment”

Gee, I must have missed those as well!!!

As usual you are full of crap.

KGC

If they have to bring in buses, they aren't high fuel milage vehicles, it looks to me as if Obama is setting himself up to being an out of touch elite. I can see the right wing now, slaming him for not conserving energy.

Jack

OK Karolena. So what's the problem with putting Hillary's name in nomination and letting the delegates and superdelegates vote?

Craig, (if you really are Craig), what's the usual procedure? What have they done at past Democratic conventions?

Jack

It is kind of amazing that they did not think through the transit issues before deciding to change the venue.

Karo asked: "Some have commented that they received calls more than once a day. Why didn’t that work?"

They knew going in that they'd have to break for Obama or they'd lose the AA vote. Scared the crap out of them, too.

Here ya go, bro:

"12

Colors blind the eye.
Sounds deafen the ear.
Flavors numb the taste.
Thoughts weaken the mind.
Desires wither the heart.

The Master observes the world
but trusts his inner vision.
He allows things to come and go.
His heart is open as the sky."

Have a good day

Craig says: "Obama is the presumed nominee thanks only to superdelegates."

This comment overlooks one fairly important fact:

If there were NO super-delegates, Obama still would have won.

Obama won more pledged delegates than Hillary Clinton.

No, he did not win a majority of pledged delegates, but he won more than any of his Democratic rivals did. That's why he was more deserving of the party's presidential nomination than were any of his rivals.

"As usual you are full of crap. "

ROFL, KGC....I have an editor friend who cannot abide stupidity or toxicity. There was one manager in the business who combined both. So we'd all be in a watering hole or restaurant somewhere and that manager would (uninvited) sit down at the table. The editor would immediately turn to the waiter, and say, "Check please."

PoU--I didn't really read much new in the Times piece. A lot of "As I've alread said" comments....

Craig,

I am duly chastened for my frequent use of
regustlican, reghastlican, refuselican, refusslican, returdlican, retardlican, renegelican, rebastlican, rebomblican, creepuplican,and ripuplican.

I confess that being constantly called a traitorous, anti-business, baby killing, simple-minded, godless, cultish, nigger-loving, looney leftist, unAmerican, tree hugging, humanistic, quiche-eating, chardonnay-sipping, hate-filled, blaming, whining, elitist, Christ-killing, bleeding heart yuppie on the internet, radio & tv, and in newspapers and magazines over the last 35 years (since I stopped supporting mr. nixon's thuggery and butchery) I have become fairly insensitive to every intolerant, snoopy, hypocritical, swindling, pro-pollution, pro-Milosevic, anti-privacy, gay-bashing, pro-human trafficking & slavery, thieving, Iran-saddam-al qaeda arming, pro-Sudan, totalitarian, pro-waste fraud & abuse, woman hating, pro-red china, landmine laying, witch-hunting, pro-torture, Big Porn supporting, mercury poisoner, sheet-klad, bomb tossing, Mammon worshipping, pro-lynching, war criminal's need for respect.

For my errors, I am sorry. I repent my diction and beg pardon. However, I shall always despise the people who took over and ruined a perfectly good political party. God bless Thaddeus Stevens.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/07/dem-superdelegates-rule-after.html#comment-115067

chezmadame, yes i really am me, i guess. not always sure.

at most conventions, there's a cursory roll call for all candidates and then a motion on the floor to unanimously back the winner by acclamation.

xrepublican....

Care to expound on each point?.....just kidding. I actually thought to myself. "It would take me a month to come up with that." You been rehearsing or are you that imaginative?

Nick

I really don't want to start it up again, but I am curious. I teasingly asked if your mother let you out alone implying that you were young and naive if you didn't know about Republican talking points and how to recognize them even when not identified as such.

Nothing in that question is in any way an insult to any member of your family. It's not even very insulting to you since the worst it implies is that you might be politically inexperienced.

I just don't see any reason for the raging meltdown that this seemed to cause. Still if you felt horribly mistreated, I apologize for making you feel that way.

xrepug said: "I confess that being constantly called a traitorous, anti-business, baby killing, simple-minded, godless, cultish, nigger-loving, looney leftist, unAmerican, tree hugging, humanistic, quiche-eating, chardonnay-sipping, hate-filled, blaming, whining, elitist, Christ-killing, bleeding heart yuppie on the internet, radio & tv, and in newspapers and magazines over the last 35 years "

See, I knew you could not POSSIBLY be a recent recruit. Even the Republicans who despise Bush don't refer to themselves the way you refer to them...that took years.

xrepublican

That was a truly virtuoso performance.... applause

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/07/dem-superdelegates-rule-after.html#comment-115072

LESD, don't disagree with anything you said and didn't say otherwise in today's post. my only point is the irony of needing superdelegates to clinch the nomination after his folks spent so much energy months ago complaining about them. In the end, the party elites had to step in to put someone formally over the top. Sure, if the party's rules excluded unelected party bosses, Obama would have won without them. But that's not how Democrats do it. Of couse, if Dems used the Republican winner-take-all system for awarding state delegates, it would have been very tight -- think someone here (was it Lardo?) ran the numbers showing HRC would have won, not sure about that. Anyway, we can run hypotheticals all day by imagining different rules for Democrate nominations. But under the current rules, Superdelegates chose the nominee.

I just went through Mr Obama's piece in this morning's Times--went through it a couple of times--went through parts of it several times.

I kept looking for where he defined his strategy for the Middle East. He used the word strategy four times while never clearly stating what _his_ strategy for the Middle East is.

He talked about sending a couple of brigades to Afghanistan, and talked about the Taliban without ever saying how engagement in Afghanistan fits in with our strategic interests in that region.

He was clear in saying he doesn't want long-term bases in Iraq. How about in other countries? How about in Afghanistan?

What will victory in Afghanistan look like? What if it becomes 'hard'. What if we become bogged down? What if we take casualties? What if our NATO allies don't carry what we perceive to be their fare share of the load?

And, what about the Straits of Hormuz? Do we have a strategic interest in ensuring that the Hormuz choke-point stays open? A strong enough interest to go to war? After all, it is international waters.

The list of goes on and on. Come on Senator, what, in specificity, is your strategy?

Flatus,

whatever BHO puts out there, You aren't gonna like it, are you?

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

The list of goes on and on. Come on Senator, what, in specificity, is your strategy?

Posted by: Flatus | July 14, 2008 1:10 PM

(1) Not even Senator or President Clinton would publish the answers to questions you ask in a campaign.

(2) Have to see what the climate is the day someone takes office. Its that simple. All wars and fractious campaigns change hourly.

a friend this am after reading Flatus's post said he was asking questions that could not be answered until after Obama takes office.

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

On Obama's editorial on Iraq

1 Obama wants to appear to be with drawing while not doing so. There is little to no difference in the McCain Strategy and the Obama one. Both will leave an unspecified number of troops In Iraq. Mccain is straight forward with this Obama is not.

2. Obama believes that stability in Afganistan is of more strategic importance than Iraq. Now, I haven't seen any huge oil fields being opened in Afganistan.
The free flow of oil to the world being the dominating national interest in the area.

Jack

anybody see the premiere of Generation Kill on HBO last night?

much MUCH edgier and more reality drama than slapstick comedy for sure, but could be the MASH phehnomenon of the Iraq invasion -- all done from the grunt solider perspective

Smart friend Doots,

Your wife or Rance? great minds think a like ;0)

Jamie wrote: umtyup state nationally famous for the best sandwich fillers, longest check stand waits, and home of the renowned low flying butterflies casts 1 and 1/2 votes for our favorite son, Julius Throckmorton Skeeter and 8 and 1/2 votes for the next President of the light of the world, the glorious United States of America Governor Bauregard Phippus Mistletoe.

Thanks, Jamie, I shall use it w/all credit to you.

Happy Bastille Day, all ! Free the captives. Proclaim Liberty throughout the Land and unto all the Inhabitants thereof. - Lev. 25: 10

Yes free us from the petty tyrants of the blogosphere

Sheila,

I believe it was Rance D Dog that said that. :) Lovely boy ain't he?

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

Basically, in the primary, Obama ran as an opiate for the masses, a pseudo religion -- now he has to secularize himself to win the general.

LOL I knew I was looking at a smart pup!

Thanks, Jamie, Patsi, & Chef.

Chef,

I am sorry to say that I am prone to dwell on the negative bits. I also belong to Toastmasters, at which club I regularly compose and deliver political speeches and rants. I have also served as a campaign speech coach and speech writer on a few occasions. Prolly none of the trail-mixers would ever guess it.

Also, I forgot: God bless Hugh Scott, too.

Craig, you wrote "we went used"... re: auto. Is there a Mrs. Crawford in the background somewhere???

Dear Hillary Supporters,

I encourage you to visit www.together4us.com and to consider signing the petition you will find there.

Thanks..

xrepublican,

I believe the word of the day is "Pithy" ;0) I recognised a particularlly talented rant and so did the others.

You creativity is much appreciated. It "Lifts and Separates" so to speak.

Check Please!

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/07/dem-superdelegates-rule-after.html#comment-115068

Nick, no matter how you were insulted, you basically went overboard in attacking anyone here who stood up to vulgar attacks. Hey we all go overboard sometimes... it's human. But in your calmer moments, if you go back and read the thread you wrote I am sure you'd agree you weren't at your best; in fact, I would venture to say you were at your worst. Please understand that I am not condemning you because I've been in just the same place more than once. The best thing to do is apologise for going over-the-top with the language particularly , and move on.

None of us profit if we remain bitter or angry at each other.

Just my take and saying it from someone who has also messed up... here and elsewhere on the net.

Sheila, I went to one toastmasters meeting... I was so shocked after I introduced myself and they counted the number of ummmmsss and aaaahhhs that I said. I was intimidated and never went back. Now I am sorry because I think I would have greatly improved my public speaking by staying with it.

Super Delegates appear to be taking the nomination away from the popular vote winner, Senator Clinton.
All that loot spent by Senator O. and Senator Clinton was still the choice of voters.

Gilbert-in-DC is my lifer for the past 21 years, Euro, but he makes rare appearances on the blog. More into the facebook thing. And by the way, i was sent outside during the auto negotiations. I have a bad habit of talking too much, like trashing our old car to the salesman and gushing about how much i liked the one we were buying. At a particularly crucial moment i burst into the haggling session to announce that the new car has side airbags. Got quite a withering glare for that one.

oh for Pete's sake,

Check Please!

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

“They knew going in that they'd have to break for Obama or they'd lose the AA vote. Scared the crap out of them, too.“

But, could Clinton have gotten the nomination WITHOUT super delegates? That’s my question. Super delegates would have had to side with Clinton in order for HER to win using the Democrat system. The only difference is that most on this site wanted her to win while a few of us wanted him to win. That’s the way it works, folks. Now some of you would seem to be Repugs, or just bad losers, because you are doing everything you can to ensure he doesn’t win. See how good things would be under a McCain candidacy! Oh, I know. All of you make over $250K and you now support Bush.

well i am off to nuke the weeds with gene-altering pesticides -- i might return with six fingers, which might be helpful for keeping up with you guys on the keyboard

exrepublican,

You should do Toastmasters if you still want to. My father used toastmasters to perfect his speaking ability when he was apiring to a seat in the State House of Reps.

He really changed his style and it also helped him with his creative writing skills. He ended up authoring three mysteries and was working on the 4th when he passes away.

But I always remember Toastmasters and the advantage of using them.

ET

That can be intimidating, but as a profesional speaker once told me, "silence is better than sound". Let the audience assume you are thinking as opposed to be at a loss for words."

He couldn't turn me into a polished speaker, but at least was able to cure me of my extreme stage fright.

craig I am liking this comment link system

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/07/dem-superdelegates-rule-after.html#comment-115112

Karolenna, I only wish I made over $250K. I wish I made over $50K. Your question on whether Hillary could get the nomination WITHOUT the super delegates is fair. But it seems that Barack couldn't have done it without the SDs either, so I think it's a moot point. I favor the democratic process in allowing a roll call. And yes, I support Barack Obama now, but I don't want Hillary or her supporters to be silenced. And to be honest, in the past month Barack sounds even more conservative than Hillary did during the whole campaign (not that I thought she is conservative or that he is). But that charge has been leveled at her and I thought it was unfair then, and I think it is unfair now.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/07/dem-superdelegates-rule-after.html#comment-115117

well clearly you're determined to be a jerk, Nick. so be it.

"His oped this morning was about ending the war and reminding people that the war in Iraq has nothing to do with the war on terrorism."

The problem is the world has moved on, his ideas are a day late and a dollar short.
I'm sure they are well focus group tested but they have little relevance out in the real world. His lack of knowledge and experience are showing again.

Jack

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/07/dem-superdelegates-rule-after.html#comment-115117

Nick, I really wish you were supporting someone else than Hillary. You aren't doing her any favors.

Try some xanax dude, this stress is gonna kill ya !!

"anybody see the premiere of Generation Kill on HBO last night?"- CC

Missed it but bumped into an MSNBC Special, "Caught on Video" which focused on several of these recent stories on youth's beating up each other and filming it.

Whskyjack,

My opinion: It was a desire to create worries in the oil market and get crude up to $250/bbl. al qaeda and 9/11 provided a pr gimmick to help get the American public on board, Wag the Doggie-style.

Yapping about WMDs didn't work because the US and UN inspectors didn't find anything, and Wilson created doubts about the bushcheneymccain WMD assertions.

Most Americans were still in 9/11 war fever and swallowed the lie about a saddam-bin laden connection. However, the real business was to raise oil prices and get the Big Oil and halliburton out of the doldrums. The leftist chant should have been, "No Blood For Big Oil !"

Craig... you are awesome... in so many ways! When I am allowed to spend money again, I am ordering your book !!!

Jamie and Tom,

WOW. I can attest to both of your reasoned posts to Nick.

Wow....

Flatus,

Check please!

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

Speaking of TV Specials. "Snapped' comes to mind LOL

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/07/dem-superdelegates-rule-after.html#comment-115128

Well Sheila, your very kind comment reminded me of Al Gore's current book"
"The Assault on Reason". :-)

I am a people person and I believe that when I've done something wrong I should own up to it. If I hurt someone unintentionally I think it is only reasonable to take responsibility and apologize. I had this cousin who was a total born-again evangelical Christian and she would at the end of any conversation say things like...

"oh and Tommy if I said or did anything to hurt you or offend you, PLEASE forgive me". Her heart was in the right place but she also went overboard. You wanted to just say "Debra, stop it. If you did say or did something that offended me, I would have said so". I mean really, she was the most non offending person I know.

Anyway.. the point is... and I know some are going to gag at this... we really are one human family. I consider civility to be one of my core goals in life. I actually used the "F" word against a customer last week when I was pushed to hard. For my own peace of mind, I need to apologise. My pride doesn't want me to, but I remember that Pride stands before the fall, if that makes any sense. I mean "pride" in the negative way, where it stops you from doing the right thing because you think it might weaken you.

Enuf from me....

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/07/dem-superdelegates-rule-after.html#comment-115130

Nonsense Flatus, Strategic Policy written out and vetted in the press for months is not a Strategy either. lol

Every politician who has run for office and won against the "Republicans" have not shown their hand.

In war, you don't publish "What you think is a good idea" Eisenhower would have thought your notion non-sensical.

I know you are posing argument, but that is all it is today Flatus,. Arguement.

Wisedom can be also seen as not showing your hand to soon.

The media keeps promoting the horse race with the close national percentages without mentioning the Electoral College. The figures for the toss up states as well as the overall chart are interesting.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/

Nick

I follow your posts and I was not aware of your background. I doubt if Jamie was either, it is not her style to become personal. I would take her at her word. her phrase is a common one and while mild snark it was not deserving of your responce. She has offered an apology. From what I know of Jamie it is a sincere one. She is not like others , who shall be nameless.

Jack

Hello most

Went to the bookstore to see the New Yorker. They were not out on the shelf yet, but the guy working there said.... he had already about 20 request when the store opened.

From the people I saw, around the store, I would guess they were Obama supporters, mostly younger 25 ish, and a few 40+ women...(just a personal guess)

craig, you and I have the same roles in car negotiations - go outside, look at all the shiny new cars, and shut up while the deal gets done. LOL

"Strategic Policy "

It is policy and policy is discussed all the time out in the open.
A great example is Petraus's Iraq policy. He has endlessly discussed his policy of counterinsergency. He has not given us operational detail. What Flatus is wanting is policy from Obama.

Jack

Petraus is sanctioned by the Adminiration. His polic is approved and not up for discussion.

Obama and McCain are wise to leave the sleeping dog lay right where he is until its time.

Both their generalizations are different to cause enough argument. Anyone can gain enough information for both without throwing potentially good strategy away with a Press Storm

And that is good political strategy.

"Monday, July 14, 2008
From the LA TImes Political Blog, "Crowd Erupts during Barack Obama Speech, but it's over the mention of Clinton."
Crowd Erupts during Barack Obama Speech, but it's over the mention of Hillary Clinton."

Obama Reaches Out to Latino Voters
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/07/13/obama-reaches-out-to-latino-voters/

"And that is good political strategy"

What may be good political strategy for the campaign doesn't lead to an informed voter.
As I have pointed out there is nothing to keep either Obama or Mccain from discussing foreign policy strategy except for their campaign strategy.

I think that may have been Flatus's point.

Jack

Sometimes you take the good with the bad when there is a war like atmosphere.

I maybe hard on the average voter who doesn't want to read any further than a pamphlet or you guys because you really want to see the minutia.

But like I said before, not even Eisenhower would approve. He knew why. I'm sure you do too. ;0) Actually, Flatus was in. He knows too.

just the hard breaks.

Gotta go! Cheers

Sheila

If you want to see something of strategic vision, or grand strategy, take a look at some of the speeches on this website. Pick just about any of them--Churchill, Roosevelt, Elizabeth I, just about any of them.

EuroTom,

Please don't let the rudeness of that TM club stop you. No 2 clubs are alike. When I started in '75, Midway TM, club 383 in St Paul, MN was a very polite, all male non-stop politics and religion, delivered in suit and tie. Now it is very polite, shirtsleeves, and co-ed, but still nonstop politics and religion. Going to other clubs showed me that some of Midway's characteristics are unusual to downright rare. Tpi, don't let one experience turn you away.

Counting ums and ahs is important for some people. It would have been more useful to simply point out that you are rich resource of ums and ahs, and offer to be of use if you wished to change that characteristic.

Clinton dearned the right to have her name put in nomination. The race for the nomination ended in a virtual tie. If Ted Kennedy could have his name placed in nomination in 1980 when he was really far behind Jimmy Carter, where do the Obama henchmen and the party bigwigs get the nerve to say that Clinton can't have her share of the convention. This is not Obama's convention, it is the Democratic Party convention. Hasn't anybody noticed that half the party supported Hillary Clinton? The scenario, as I understand it, is to have Hillary's name put in nomination, and after Obama wins (which he is sure to) Hillary or someone close to her will call for recognition and move that Obama's nomination be made unanimous. Cheers, tears, hugs and fade-out to swelling music. What is Obama afraid of?

Flatus

Soemone else who could layout a great strategic vision was Reagan. I say that even though I thought his vision was nutball carzy. But youy knew where he stood.

Jack

Oh, Shiela, here's the link:
http://www.historyplace.com/speeches/previous.htm

Eisenhower _would_ approve. And, you might remember, no you wouldn't--it was in '52, Eisenhower went to Korea as he was running for president and gave his strategy for getting out of the war and of his vision for the Far East.

I went back and read Sen. Obama's plan for Iraq, and (and I can't believe I'm saying this) it sounds like what he has been saying all along. I don't believe he is in any position right now to go into greater depth about how he would accomplish the goals of removing the bulk of combat troops in 16 months or so while adding support to the Afghanistan troops than he has done. It was the major issue with which I agreed with him during the primaries, and I am of the opinion that he's giving voters a clear alternative to McSame's position. By not injecting more flexibility into his goals he is playing into McCain's hands as far as the war debate goes, but that's the correct debate to have IMO. So at least on this issue, I agree with his approach.

My friend Tresy, with whom I protested against young Republicans in Seattle during the Oliver North crap, wrote this to a mutual friend of ours. Tresy is LEFT WING and probably a lot smarter than I am. I am surprised at his comments.

"A candidate whom you are not allowed to criticize in any way shape or form without being accused of disrespecting his military service has what I would call a Kevlar coating, not just a Teflon one.

It never even occurred to me that Hillary would contemplate a VP slot on McCain's ticket--that's for Joe Lieberman if anyone. It's Chuck Hagel on Obama's ticket that I worry about, and not without cause either. The entire message of Obama's campaign in general is not "Change" but "I Won't Rock The Boat," meaning he's making sure no one in power or the media thinks he's going to use his office to hold any of the criminals of the last 8 years accountable for anything. That's what his message on FISA was (voting yes both on cloture, the bill itself and stripping the Dodd Amendment out, after famously promising to support a filibuster).

BTW, in case you didn't notice, Hillary voted the right way (no) on all these votes. So much for Obama the candidate of change, and Hillary the Triangulator. (Hillary also courageously voted against the MoveOn censure motion last year, while Obama chickened out on it entirely, just as he chickened out on Kyl-Lieberman. Then when he got MoveOn's endorsement anyway, he kicked them in the teeth by bringing up the whole "Gen. Betrayus" ad flap again in his nauseatingly revisionist speech on "patriotism" last month. This is emerging as the typical Obama move: use your supporters just as long as necessary, and then throw them under the bus at the first opportunity.) I also love his cuddling up to the most loathsome right-wing evangelists in the country, cooing in their ears about expanding Bush's faith-based initiatives instead of axing them like any Democrat with a lick of sense or principle would. But then, his pastor of 20 years is a racist demagogue, too, so he probably feels right at home with them.

In case you missed my message, I think Barack Obama is a fraud. I'll never vote for McCain, but the prospect of pulling the lever for that sh*theel makes me want to throw up."

I put the star in the last sentence. Anyway, I offer this simply to ask for rebuttals or your viewpoints on what is said.

Tom

ET, no, speaking of ET, it will be on HDNM this weekend. I've been waiting for years to see it.

Counting ums and ahs is important for some people. It would have been more useful to simply point out that you are rich resource of ums and ahs, and offer to be of use if you wished to change that characteristic.

Posted by: xrepublican | July 14, 2008 2:44 PM

Hey X,

I am in Belgium now and from what I see from the Expats directory, there is no Toastmasters here. Besides, I need to keep improving my Dutch language skills.

I grew up in Minneapolis... !! Sometimes I miss it, except when it is winter... :)

Well, I see the Dow's earlier optimism over the proposed government support of F&F has evaporated, Down 72 points now.

I am for party unity... it's so important to win this race and kick out the criminals in the White House.

I am not afraid of Barack Obama being President. I think he will do fine. I am a bit worried about him moving center now because I thought his message of "change" made it safe for him to be an unabashed "liberal", something that has been bastardized and trashed since Reagan ran for President.

ET

I'll talke one item from that list of things. Hegel will not be named as VP. That is one of those media and political junkie flags thrown up to see if anyone salutes. Setting aside that he is a pro life Republican no matter how moderate on other issues, the person named VP in the normal scheme of things would get right of first refusal on the Presidency in eight years.

This is one of the reasons so many wanted the Clinton/Obama dream ticket because it would likely mean a 16 year hold on the White House. As it is, even if he names Clinton as VP it is doubtful she would want to run at almost 70 years of age, but that's possible. Still the VP must be a Dem in order to build the national recognition of potential candidates for the party.

Jack,

This is election time and the voter should have been educated by now, if the pols have been doing their work. This is the time to touch the emotions that trigger the desired responses in contributors & voters.

Election time is no time to bring reasoned discourse and intelligent, measured debate. That way lies Stevenson, McGovern, Mondale, Dukakis, Gore, and Kerry, also Willkie, Dewey, and Goldwater. "Thinky" people always get walloped. For 56 years Dems have tended to favor publicly thoughtful losers. From my perspective it will be better for Obama th hide his thoughtfulness under a bushel until the 2d week of November.

OT: For all the teachers out there.

I guess this has been circulating for several months. News here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91lQK5SCzlQ

So how will Obama do the roll call at the convention. Say I'm a Hillary delegate from I don't know lets say Ohio,Pennsylvania, Michigan or Florida and I want to vote for Hillary. Does Obama take away my vote on national television.

xr, while Obama's thinky responses could go overboard, hiding behind speaky platitudes is not an approach consistent with Obama's message, and not, IMO an approach that would be embraced by the independent voters that the ultimate winner needs in order to win in Nov. While I don't think the middle is likely to embrace overly detailed attempts at explaining nuanced positions, neither do I believe they will embrace a candidate whose positions appear to be evasion of issues while leaving all options open, particularly if the other candidate is being clear about where he stands. In my experience, those in the middle politically are there because they like to listen to positions and choose the ones that they consider best. And the only 2 folks you mention that arguably ran in a political environment remotely similar to today's were Gore and Kerry, and I believe it was their inability to take and explain positions clearly both affirmatively and in response to the Repug slime machine that lost them more votes than their thinky responses.

flatus,

I remember Ike promised, "If elected, I will Go to Korea." Many people thought that meant he would do what he had done in Europe 10 years earlier.

I do not remember him going there as candidate Ike, and I don't think that he did.

Once he was seated in the Oval Office, Ike continued Truman's containment policy (which republicans called, 'playing for a draw'). Therefore, the republican, right-wing, John Birch Society dubbed Ike 'soft on Communism,' and the 38th Parallel 'Demilitarized Zone" became a border. Despite the raving right, Ike was re-elected in the first republican landslide in 28 years.

Pogo,

Over the years I've learned that passion when expressing one's core beliefs is worth about 25-points on the articulate/not-articulate scale.

The person who speaks with passion about a subject that she is deeply knowledgeable about can carry her audience along with her. The articulate individual who is merely glib loses in the long-run.

I liked Ike.

Hi EuroTom!

I grew up in St Paul. I've heard of Minneapolis. Isn't it out west, across the river from Bismarck? HAHAHAHA

" Bout time one of you repugs had the guts to admit the obvious. "

Check please. Uninvited stupidity just sat down at the table.

greenclouds, just noodling your question - one scenario would be for the Dem committee spokesperson from the great state of Alabama to rise when called upon in the first rollcall and move the suspension of the rules, which would draw a second, which the chair would put before the delegates, who could vote and it be carried, then place the name of Barack Obama in nomination for unanimous approval. That would require a good deal of backroom agreement beforehand, and I don't know if the Dems' rules provide for that, but that is one mechanism I could envision to avoid the roll call vote.

xrepub... I used to have a t-shirt that reads "Is St. Paul really necessary?" LOL.. I love the old buildings in the downtown area there. I used to volunteer for the KTCA Action Auction on channel 2... and love going around Summit to see the mansions.

I am off to bed...

flatus, probably a pretty good rule of thumb. It was a quality Kerry did not have, and Gore did not exhibit well enough.

"Now some of you would seem to be Repugs, or just bad losers, because you are doing everything you can to ensure he doesn’t win."

Karo -- that is hilarious considering the bile you spewed about both Clintons. If she had won you'd have put a hit out on her.

Bus per day ( charter rate) ~$500

Driver per day ~$250
per diem ~$150
~$900

3 days ~$2,700


fuel ~$4,000

1 bus for the speech ~$6,700


Let's say that 1/2 the folks ride buses and they able to make 7 Round Trips from some pick up and delivery site -- and that would probably leave a few grumpy folks.

1,000 buses

somewhere in the neighborhood of $6,500,000

XR, you are quite correct. I remember that picture of him on a winter day wearing OGs while being briefed somewhere along the front.

His expressed strategy was "...I will go to Korea" which conjured all the competence and commitment that our country mustered on D-Day.

I think this campaign is most similar to 1920:

Bugs Bunny proclaiming a policy of "Back to Normalcy" stated simply, with ease and confidence,
v
Daffy Duck offering yet more international upsets, plus a home policy of more Red Scare spying and pogroms.

KGC: Having already announced the plan with such fanfare, it is unlikely that the Obama campaign will now change its mind -- what a dreadful appearance that would give.
Now, I was at the 1960 JFK acceptance speech at the Coliseum. The advantage there was that the Sports Arena was within easy walking distance of the Coliseum. The disadvantage was that, despite the huge enthusiasm for JFK, and the fact that LA is much larger than Denver, the Coliseum was far from full. One of my memories is of the organizers urging all of us to move down and close in. The fact that the speech was somewhat early (the old east coast - west coast thing) was also a drawback.
Still, I wouldn't have missed it for anything and I don't see why the Obama supporters shouldn't have their grand rally as well.

hahahahah.

Bush lifts ineffectual presidential ban on offshore drilling. Throws father under the bus and demonstrates that son can make ineffectual gesture reversing father's ineffectual gesture.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/14/washington/14drillcnd.html?hp=&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1216065728-LsxxLIYdyaiDzeWayDpJ1Q

I say tell it to Congress, see if they care what you think about this issue.

That would deny the viewing nation one of its favorite tv pleasures. It would be like going into a retired persons house and turning off The price is Right.

Flatus, XR: I think that that simple phrase "I will go to Korea" (no other promises) in combination with his obvious background as Supreme Allied Commander was the entire story of the 1952 election.
Our family was definitely a Stevenson family but I actually remember (I was just a kid) being too embarrassed to mention that to any of my friends ... everone else seemed to be running around shouting "I Like Ike" ... a man whose speech-making abilities, BTW, make Sen McCain appear downright eloquent.

Just saying that's a lot of money and diesel buses
especially in light Mayor Hickenlooper's big green announcement today.
Denver, the Front Range and Colorado are naturally, culturally and intellectually well positioned to be the U.S. epicenter for a global new energy and sustainable future," said Denver Mayor John Hickenlooper. "The City is committed through the leadership provided by our Greenprint Denver program to enhance and accelerate the green ethic of many of our citizens. With the Green Frontier Fest we are excited to showcase our existing capacity and accomplishments."

The Mayor added, "The Fest is also an expression of our community's collaborative effort to set a new local green standard for the Democratic National Convention and for future conventions here and elsewhere."
The picture will be complete with 1000 diesel buses.

Pogo: Which states do you foresee actually allowing drilling / exploration now that the ban is lifted?

KGC: Here in San Diego our buses all run on natural gas. Perhaps that is the case in Denver as well?
My recollection is that Denver, because it sits in kind of a bowl, is a very smoggy city, particularly in the summer.

"Wisedom can be also seen as not showing your hand to soon."

ROFL -- is that anything like "wisdom"?

Denver does not have enough buses so they will be renting them ..some from quite far away.

There are no local government near by with enough buses to lend.

I have no problem with the idea of the event. It seems to be they did not think it through very carefully and now are scrambling to do it and that always ends up being very expensive. It seems a waste of money in light of the non-unity campaigns being run and the problems local dems and the DNC are having raising money.

This morning a very pleasant young woman (she actually gave me her name at the beginning of the conversation) called to solicit donations for the Obama campaign.
I told her as politely as I could that I currently have so little excess cash that I have had to suspend my charitable contributions and when she asked whether I might be persuaded to charge a small donation, I informed her that my priority would be first to help Sen Clinton pay down her debt and that I was not, at present, a supporter of Sen Obama.
I'd like to think that they take note of such responses.

Ya, EuroTom, I had one that said:
"2 reasons to see mpls:
1. see a ball game
2. get murdered."

It's a much better place these days, I hear. They cleaned the republican riff-raff out, except for all the stripjoints and porn parlors. I hear it's starting to look like a tallish St Paul. Sweet dreams to you!

XR, there are some parallels. The biggest difference however is that in 1920 we were trying to get over WWI whereas now we're trying to get to a position of getting over Iraq, but that difference presents what is probably actually a similarity among the electorate now that should help Obaam. I wonder if he can in the end match Harding's 23 point landslide.

KGC: I do agree with you about the logistics and the plan not being thought through.
I have to tell you that my current observation is that the wondrous campaign machine is fraying around the edges a little when it comes to "image" -- the lurch to the center has been precipitous and the candidate seems unable to simply say, "I changed my mind" -- the faux Presidential seal is questionable, the idea of a big open-air rally in Germany, 18 years post-unification and the end of the Cold War is almost grotesque... I am awaiting the announcement of a march / speech on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial.

maggisd
It looks like Denver a shuttle/transitmall bus that is electric but their main service is still diesel although like most communitiy there is a lobby pushing for natural gas. Our county uses natural gas too.
Denver has been trying to get money from the Obama campaign and there is trouble with the "unity" campaign in Colorado. I assume they will be using footage shot in the stadium for ads etc.

People who live in Denver think they should have the Decemberists (or another big band) if they want to guarantee the numbers...just like Portland.

""2 reasons to see mpls:
1. see a ball game
2. get murdered."

!!! Ha!!!!

Pogo: In stature, demeanor, and eloquence Sen Obama has huge advantages over Sen McCain. He should win in a walk, given the mood of the electorate. I presume that if he does not win big, it will be put down to racism...and that will be a shame.

maggs, the ban is not lifted. Only the 1990 Presidential ban has been lifted - the moratorium passed by Congress in 1982 is still in effect. If Congress acted, I would see Texas and Louisiana moving quickly to drill more in the Gulf, but I don't know about states on the Eastern seaboard.

KGC: Well, of course your community has natural gas ... you're a Californian.
I no longer remember if there was a band of any note in 1960; I seem to recall that there were a number of celebrities. I do remember very clearly the line of cadillac convertibles carrying the candidate and his family members that drove slowly around the coliseum floor before the speech ... and the screams!

Maggi, the highlight of that election (1952) season was Estes Kefauver singing the Tennessee Waltz at the Democratic Convention. Golly, what a convention that was---it should have been the model for all the rest!

maggs, I agree. I assume the Obama campaign is assuming that the electorate knows that and doesn't have to see the 2 candidates in a debate format to know that. As Angelica (Rugrats) would say, "Maybe, maybe so."

The easiest way to quell this talk about off shore drilling is that any oil company that has existing leases on federal land that are going unused, should return them to the gov't and pay back any incentives to purchase...

Pogo: But there are already a huge number of untouched oil leases off the Texas and Louisiana coast, so I don't see that happening.
It seems to me that no matter what avenues we pursue, energy independence is at least 10 years away. If it were me, and I had to compromise in order to get something done, I would trace ANWR for higher fuel-efficiency standards on all vehicles -- vehicular conservation is what's really going to help us.
Now, I'm not in favor of drilling in ANWR, but I find drilling there much less alarming than drilling off the coast.

Maybe Obama could get Greenday to sing "American Idiot". Should be a good shot at McCain.

"I presume that if he does not win big, it will be put down to racism...and that will be a shame."

And this is where the New Yorker cover is important.

It takes every single element of expressed bigotry from the entire cycle and places it on a single piece of paper.

It's not the Obama's who are being ridiculed, it's the racists.

Daughter just called to tell me (from her hands-free while driving cell phone) that she just saw a Cruella DeVille bumper sticker (on the bumper of a Cadillac Coupe DeVille) with the words "Got puppies?"

Maybe Obama could get Greenday to sing "American Idiot".

Or the Dixie Chicks!

Maggs, you've hit on most of the issues that are in the air - untouched lease (and undepleted reserves under current leases), drilling on government land previously off limits, and offshore drilling. I don't think the lifted moratorium or the one still in place address drilling in ANWR. Unless I'm mistaken, that is a separate issue and the moratoria address only drilling in the outer continental shelf.

Well, I'll be sliding along now. Play nice (hahahahah)

Flatus: Absolutely right. I am a subscriber and I get it ... got it without explanation. And I'm really puzzled about those who don't get it.
The unwritten caption is ... "Don't you see how silly all this is?"

"From the people I saw, around the store, I would guess they were Obama supporters, mostly younger 25 ish, and a few 40+ women...(just a personal guess)
"

I think most people will just see it as a joke and not take it seriously.

With regard to oil -- I do believe that a stated intent to do more drilling would send a strong signal to the speculators and buy a little more time -- and if it's the only way to get increased mileage standards and more hybrid vehicle production, I'd take that compromise.
BTW, have you all heard that Toyota plans to open a Prius plant in the US?

I think the fuss over the cover is like the fuss over Bob Kerrey's remarks. Unwarranted and overblown.
And with Kerrey now people are doing what he suggested embracing the name Hussein.

Patsi: Some months ago they did a cover of Obama and Hillary in bed together, with Hillary reaching for the red phone and Obama sort of rising up on the other side of her ... they both were portrayed as goggle-eyed with apprehension. It's just the kinda stuff they do.
Oddly enough, the editorial writers, who have been on air today praising their own objectivity, have all actually been supporting Sen Obama from the beginning.

"The easiest way to quell this talk about off shore drilling is that any oil company that has existing leases on federal land that are going unused, should return them to the gov't and pay back any incentives to purchase..."

A perfect solution!

Ispe owner Felipe Aylala says wholesale jalapeño prices jumped from $13 a case a week ago to $21.

Thanks to George Bush's regulatory policy
From the Denver Post
Clearly part of the problem is the Bush administration's deep-seated aversion to industry regulation. How else do you explain the weird scene last spring in which lawmakers peppered FDA Commissioner Andrew C. von Eschenbach with requests for a reasonable budget figure so the agency could do its job, and von Eschenbach's repeated evasions?
Eventually, von Eschenbach wrote a letter to Sen. Arlen Specter saying the agency needed an additional $275 million just to deal with imported food, drugs and medical devices. It's odd, to say the least, to breathe a sigh of relief when a bureaucrat finally asks for more money.

KGC: Well, I would say that some percentage of the population does see his background and even his name as a huge plus ... but I'd not go so far as to say that everyone does. But people who would actually find the New Yorker cover anything other than a satire probably weren't supporting Sen Obama to begin with.

Good will, like a good name, is got by many actions, and lost by one.

Lord Francis Jeffrey

Actually, dog -- you were the first one to show up with a toxic comment today when you brought "bitterati."

maggisd

I think they should shine light on the rumors not shut down anyone who wants to talk about them. To me that is what the cover was about. I think we are in agreement. Personally I think most of the Obots don't like it because aside from the motif the sketches are not flattering and they don't like to see them as any less glam than Jack and Jackie

KGC: You know what I find interesting is not the split in the Democratic Party (or the numerous splits) but the huge chasm in the Republican Party.
McCain, for instance, actually believes in regulation (his hero is TR, after all) and did a fairly decent oversight job when he was Chair of Commerce Committee.
Bush, on the other hand, seems to be one of those quasi-libertarians who is in love with absolutely unfettered capitalism but wants to regulate everyone's personal life and listen in on everyone's conversations. Like Judge Bork, he apparently feels that the Constitution is kind of a nuisance.
I don't know what the standards are for admission to UT Law School but I'd say we should, in future, beware of any candidate who can't even pass the admission test.

KGC: I think we are in agreement, entirely.

I did not know Shrub couldn't get in to UT law school...that's a nice bit of cocktail party conversation.

Hook 'em Horns!

I think Shrub has a short list of people who he takes care of and the rest of are on our own.

Well, folks...gotta go ...

And doots -- you are responding to a thought-through conversation of Flatus's, whether you agree with it or not.

check please!

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

By the way, anybody notice that in the Miss Universe contest, Miss USA fell on her ass -- in Vietnam?

For what reason would Julian Bond need to take a gratuitous swipe at Bill Clinton at the NAACP convention.

"He detailed racial failures by past presidents of both parties, then took a verbal swing at former President Bill Clinton, who made critical comments about Obama while campaigning for his wife Hillary Rodham Clinton during Democratic primaries.

"We fared much better under the man who liked to be called 'the first black president,' but then we watched him try to bring down the man who would be the real first black president," Bond said." (CBS News)

I forgot all about Kefauver singing "Tennessee Waltz"

How about "Money" or "Bomb, bomb, bomb - bomb, bomb Iran" for the Mammonist Party. He's prolly already picked Sinatra's "My Way"

"I'd like to Teach the World to Sing," "War," or "Rocky Mountain High" for the Dems,

"The Big Rock Candy Mountain" for Nader. He's probably already picked silence.

"Don't know much about history" or "Eagle Rock Rag" for bob barr and/or the Libertarians. He's probably already picked the old German ditty "Heirusalem est Perdido."

After more thought, I have to admit that the cover of the mag isn't tasteless. I understand why Obama supporters are upset, but there have been so many outrageous political cartoons that I think this has to be considered in that genre (altho I hate that word). I don't think the pix of O looks particularly like him, but the one of Michele is spot on. It is SO unlike her that it points out the absurdity of all the stories.

In the long run I think this will serve the Obama's well - it brings the topics out in the open and dares the hate-mongers to say out loud what they've been spreading online and in whispering campaigns.

I will vote for him, but I don't like them or trust them. BUT do I believe these rumors? Ridiculous - of course not.

I think Hillary said it best when she answered no to that 60 Minutes fool - she said no several times and when asked more and more, she said, "As far as I know" and was pilloried for it. It's the truth, tho - as far as sane people know anything isn't as far as the absolute truth so why keep whispering about it? I hope the topic gets dealt with for good and is shoved aside.

All the discussion on tv is probably a surprise to many who don't pay that much attention and who don't realize how rancid the rumors have become. This is going to help Obama, not hurt him.

hey..... how about that New Yawker cover....

Michelle as portrayed as one big bad ass dude..... while Obiwan is wearing a dress....... ROTFLMAO!!!!!

doots and dog,

"check, please!"

But of course!

Will you be paying by Mastercard?

Or FISA?

I say we'll all be paying for FISA... well, forever.

Anyone remember how the "Four legs bad, two legs good" chant became more than a little modified by Animal Farm's ending?

Anyone recall what it became?

Anyone recall how the seven commandments (the original call for hope and change) were degraded?

Squealer, do you know?

I'm so glad you have your own blog. It more than sort of confirms you like Napoleon a hell of a lot more than you pretended to like Snowball.

HI 9/11,

WTH are you talking about please?

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

No, Libertarians: "It's My Life"

http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/07/flop_sweat.html

Glad to see you are still copying my posts, doots....

Doots,

Oh, I don't know.

I certainly don't know as much as many here do.

Too much time reading Gibbon and Orwell, I guess.

But I'm SURE Obama will do ever so much to undo the damage the FISA bill for which he voted once he is our trusted President.

He said he would after that vote, didn't he?

Just as he said he would support Dodd's amendment and join a filibuster against the whole darn thing.

When you are supporting Obama and you ask for a "check", you might not want to bother asking for the "balances".

I think they'll be staying off the executive menu.

"HI 9/11,

WTH are you talking about please?"

Yawn, just a book, you wouldn't understand.

Check please.

Jack

Jack,

back at'cha check please!

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

Ya, 4 legs good, 2 legs better. Every animal is equal, but some animals are more equal than others.
Can't tell the pigs from the humans anymore.

The FISA vote was Obama's attempt to avoid being called soft on terrorism, a calumny that still hooks many swing voters. It's not as if Obama put FISA over the top. However, I think everyone agrees, he should have called in sick that day.

"Cadillac Coupe DeVille) with the words "Got puppies?" "

She lives near Claire McCaskill?

Did somebody hear something?

Oh, guess not, never mind

Jack

Doots - offhand I'd say he was talking about Animal Farm.

Sans Souci has usually been translated as ''without cares" as far as I know. It was the name of a palace built by Frederick the Great in Prussia. A lot of people like to names summer homes and cabins after it, altho I suspect few places ever live up to the name.

Patsi - just read your last post from last night, and I know what you mean about the one who likes to throw bombs. I'm concerned by what seems to be a growing number of once-civil and pleasant posters starting to evolve into other bombers.

For the life of me I can't understand why changing allegiance to a different candidate wouldcause such vitriol - why changing candidates would then distort a personality - and by distort I do not mean something bad. I just mean why it should change a personality so dramatically. Thought I'd clear that up so I'd take care of at least one nasty comment before it came.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/07/dem-superdelegates-rule-after.html#comment-115234

RRenee...you are hilarious!!

xrepublican,

There used to be a game show.

The name? "Who Do You Trust?"

It got revived this year.

The new name?

"How Do You Trust?"

How do you trust someone who says HE will fix the vote he just made AFTER he is President?

How do you trust someone who makes a grandiose declaration about his heroism in standing up against the bill and then makes HIMSELF -- not the law -- the answer to all doubts and dangers?

"Trust me" as a premise after than St. VItus dance ain't a good campaign pledge. It ain't good government and we have seen that too often.

However, I'd like to set up a pool for what he'll say the next time he renegs on a promise/pledge.

My bet?

"I'm doing what's best for everyone."

That's always a great one in work, marriage and government, ain't it?

xrep.

You can't call in sick on every vote.
My main problem was he had a really bad week with all the political pandering.

Jack

New Hampshire Primary 1952

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc60WYn1AE0

I think Nick was asking in English translation

"Comment va votre Grandmere"

Pardon my spelling. I never took French. Anyway, I understand that it is an insult to ask familiarly about another's Granny in French. Did I crack the code, Nick?

Happy Bastille Day!

911

The some one over on the national review blogs has a devestating phrase for Obama if it was ever to become common usage. "Every one of Obamas
promises has an experation date, every one" They have been using it a lot lately.

Jack

Jack,

Someone made a "you should all be so happy" post here in May emphasizing what Obama and Pelosi would achieve together so quickly.

One of the joyous events to come posthaste was weaning the nation off fossil fuels.

The same day the Obama campaign ran the first TV spot it did not first preview to the press --

A 30 second spot extolling him as the champion of liquid coal as a major national energy source.

I think we all may have an expiration date with destiny.

Yeah, I'm voting for him.

But that comes with my seeing everything there is to see as everything in life must be lived through.

1952 was a great election, but with commercials like this no wonder the Democrats lost. :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxYDTTNYMic&feature=related

Jamie,

I don't think it was during the 1952 campaign but do you know who eventually became Stevenson's press secretary?

9/11 survivor almost,

I remeber that stupid show, yes. The Q was always do you trust your own judgement or your wife's.

I wanted Edwards, it looks like I got Obama. I only hope O uses his republican-invented hyper powers to expose and bring down the entire mccainbushcheney crime family empire. I want the FBI, Secret Service, IRS, and NSA on their words and dealings like the Celtics on Bryant. Please forgive sport metaphor.

Bethy -- Good post. There should be no reason that we cannot criticize our party's candidate without being called names.

Who do you trust? Wasn't that Tucker Carlson's show?

Craig always picks and chooses which one to defend and which ones to ignore. He defends the ones that have been here longest.

xrepublican,

Wouldn't that be nice?

Well, more than nice.

Plus, it would repay an old historical favor when the Federal Government sent Eliot Ness to Chicago to clean up its intense and massive crime wave.

And Obama already has quoted Mamet's lousy Untouchables script. (Well, it was the old street cop's speech, not the Fed's.)

But again... that would all depend on him.

One man.

The law doesn't count. Just the man.

Actually that doesn't sound like the Eliot Ness character or even Ness himself at all.

That said, good metaphors r u.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaMaVTQKXjc

Bonham

9/11

I was eight years old in 52. I remember the convention because I was born old and was actually watching the darn thing. :-) Details such as press secretaries escape me, but if I were to make a wild ass guess about someone now well known, it would be Pierre Salinger since he ended up with Kennedy eight years later.

Nick, you are out of line once again...please stop.

Well...

Turns out it was for both 1952 and 1956.

It was Stevenson's young third cousin.

Same last name!

Turgid hint: he'll be on your radar from 70's.

Jamie/9/11
Wasn't it Maclane Stevenson? (later if MASH)

"If The New Yorker wants to get into the political cartoon business, it ought to hire some political cartoonists," added Rall. "Until they hire some smart editors, The New Yorker ought to stick to what they do well: gag panels about Upper East Siders at cocktail parties."

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003827378

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/13/AR2008071301463.html?hpid=topnews

Nice piece about how well many small, independently owned coffee shops are doing in comparison to the recent Starbucks implosions.

I don't know if Howard Schultz followed the same Harvard BS doctrine of basing your store geography on population density that Mickey Drexler openly did with The Gap but they are getting the same results.

I remember vividly in the early to mid nineties how Schultz would appear at many of the Northeast area Starbuck launches.

I also remember how he gave donations of $25K per store opening to that small, open source research project that created the dendritic DNA viral cancer vaccine which at last is moving nicely through its FDA trials.

Now you made me go look. I wasn't too far off. Pierre was his California (is there any where else?) press relations.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,895093-1,00.html

Actor McLean Stevenson was the press secretary

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adlai_Stevenson_III

You can find sentiments often expressed here in some unlikely places.

"I'm fine with people defending Obama's flip-flops, but I don't like pretending they don't matter.

Especially if it's not just a simple change of some random position, but -- as with FISA -- a real rejection of a significant campaign promise.

I'm probably going to vote for Obama, okay; I do not have to like it. I do not have believe that his awesomeness creates amnesia."

Ann Marie Cox over at The Swamp(Time) "Flop Sweat"

Gidget,

Report to Colonel Blake on the double.

(Bring Moondoogy!)

Moondoggie will be right in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAKIm5NZ_X8

ub,

New Yorker has a history of tempting controversy, locally and globally.

Remember the Artie Spiegelman Hasid-Kissing-Black-Woman post-Crown Heights cover?

There were more than a handful of those during Tina Brown's tenure... much fewer under Remnick.

About New Yorker cartoons... it is a less corrupt system than it was under Brown, Gottlieb and even Shawn.

If you could get whoever was editing that section's own comics published somewhere good... you might see your own work in The New Yorker.

Good reflection on this in Time today online... which quotes Gawker's "We Are All Idiots" summation on the subject.

http://www.time-blog.com/tuned_in/2008/07/that_new_yorker_cover_and_the.html

ub,

What that writer described is a particular trope in their cartoons, it's true.

But it really should be remembered that Addams, Thurber and Steig -- among the innovators -- were a lot more original, brilliant, dominant and influential than the humor for the thin-blooded.

9/11

I was posting an article that provided other cartoonists opinions on the cover....

I see, posts crossed in the wind

(/11-
I'll report immediately, but Moondoggy is still at the office.
I actually knew the answer because my mother orked on Adlai's campaigns in California. When she was getting on in years, whenever shesaw a rerun of MAh she would always comment "that's the nice young man that used to work for Adlai"
g

*wonders if Patsi can actually make it through a day without mentioning my name, doubt it*

Funny thing.

Friend was in NY Supreme Court last week for a divorce hearing.

Friend's ex is getting crossed by friend's attorney.

After a barrage of pontifications and evasions about his emails, phone messages and acts, that attorney drops her notes to the table and asks the ex to his face...

"So are you saying, 'Yes, I'm a narcissist and cannot stop doing and saying narcissistic things but it's everyone else's fault they can't stop talking about me"?

His attorney objected.

Judge's response? A surprisingly loud "overruled".

At least The New Yorker is keeping the issue in front of the public..... a country driven by fear and hatred.

UB -- Thanks for posting that E&P article -- it's hilarious. I mainly love it because it's a bit like asking a songwriter to critique another writer's song. To wit:

"But he noted that the cartoon was done "clumsily."

and

" the drawing is "shallow and non-contextual."

Cartoonist catfight....

Gidget,

Henry Blake seems to be one of a very few artifacts of all three Stevenson campaign left in the media.

Among the others... well, the Peter Sellers president in Doctor Strangelove.

And of course Adlai at the UN confronting Zorn during the Cuban Missile Crisis.

patsi,

During a brief time working at The New Yorker I attended one of their staff parties.

I have no idea what was on the buffet the caterer brought.

All I remember was a) the total bile of fare out of almost everyone's lips (like toxic burps after every quarter of a drink) and an elegant and entirely smashed Charles Addams charging through groups of women on his party tricycle.

9/11-
Another AS memory that still pops up, usually in articles about what NOT to do when running for POTUS....is Adlai with his feet up on a desk and showing a hole in te bottom of his shoe....
-g

Nick, we can play this game all you want, but i am going to continue deleting your comments until you calm down.

Bethy
You make so much sense!! I have always been a dem. till now and i have always criticized my party or the nominee about the things i didn't agree with.I have stated their was much i didn't like about John Kerry and said so at the time.I voted for him because of party and now as a registered Independent i no longer feel that party support the nominee stuff.I don't get why all the fuss over criticizing Sen.Obama jeez!!!He's just a man not the almighty.I am not a Republican despite what some here have called people like me.Hell i won't even vote for a Republican!! I will make a reasoned decision as to how i vote.I have a long time till November......

"an elegant and entirely smashed Charles Addams charging through groups of women on his party tricycle."

ROFL!

Nick, you are out of line once again...please stop.

Posted by: unlikely_burrito | July 14, 2008 6:44 PM

Agreed... These cheap shots against others because they don't agree with your tactics Nick are childish and lack dignity. It is time to stop or move on. You are acting like a child having a tantrum (though I suspect the child would be more mature).

As for the comment that Craig only "corrects" people who are new to the blog, that is a bunch of hooey. Craig tries not to interject as blog babysitter and he SHOULDN'T HAVE TO. Too bad a few are so determined to rattle cages and stir the sh*t constantly in order to create petty fights. I feel Craig is TOO even-handed. If it were my blog, those who act in such an egregious manner would have been kicked out and permanently.

It's 1 am... insomnia sucks.

Demand to See Original Birth Certificate by Aug. 1

"Requests have not worked. The version he has posted on the web, the Certificate of Live Birth (COLB), is only a short abstract.

Sen. Obama should do the same thing that Sen. McCain did. He should show reporters a copy of the full version of his BC, which includes the name of the hospital where he was born as well as other details of his birth that are not included on the short COLB.

Presidential candidates should accommodate such requests, as McCain did. Unless there’s something to hide, it shouldn’t be a big deal."

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/07/14/demand-to-see-original-birth-certificate-by-aug-1/#more-3577

Gidget,

A friend of mine was working with William Daniels and his wife Bonnie Bartlett in the 1990's.

They had been waiting for a table reading. Daniels was cranky, sleepy and eventually put his feet on the table to nap.

Both shoes had holes in their soles. How many? Not quite a golf course.

Bartlett looked at my friend's looking at the shoes and put her hand on his.

"Oh, those shoes. He always has had holes in shoes. I think he thinks he's Adlai Stevenson."

Eurotom,

If you don't mind...

You might want to try Kombucha tea.

There are a few good bottled versions of it out internationally.

It is excellent at helping rebalance bodies... including blood sugar and weight.

Since I began drinking it (and I'm just about to start fermenting my own), a lot of the cancer and treatment related stuff that really thinks I must like and need it has gone or is diminished.

And my sleep is much better.

Kefir made from kefir grains helps with all of that greatly, too.

Damn I love your stories, 9/11!!!!

ET well said.

Zorinin?

Zorn was the masterful Swedish impressionist painter and pal of Prins Eugen.

Gotta feed Sweetie.

Goodnight all.

Thanks 9/11 ... appreciate your suggestion and also your wit. Mauro tells me I must drink chamomile... But I am interested in this tea and will visit the health food store and look it up.

UB... thanks. I am a forgiving sort of person but sometimes bad behavior deserves a very public virtual "spanking"....

off to bed... tomorrow heavy magazine/newspaper day...

Oh yeah one more thing... It looks like the Belgian government is going to fall tomorrow. Yves Leterme has failed in pushing through reforms that would give more autonomy between the Flemish and the French speaking regions. More details to follow.

Patsi,

Thank you. I'll consider the source on that one as something to prize even more than consider.

I'm sure that you remember how many of both of our stories have been condemned by the local self-appointed Robespierre?

With that, a happy Bastille Day to all.

Anyone know who's the current French Marianne just now?

Is it another case of "Tatou, c'est tout!"?

x-man,

Reread what I posted. Dropped the "i" in Zorin -- thanks for noticing.

9/11-
Thanks for the laugh...
also, a coincidence...I had just finished watching Wm Daniels in an episode of The Closer as I read your message.
I'm also going to try your Kombucha tea on Moondoggy.
-g

Evening , fellow Republicans! LOL!

"When I look in the mirror, I'm tickled pink. I don't give a hoot about what you think!" -Rivers Cuomo of Weezer

Gidget,

There is a good national brand called "Organic and Raw Kombucha".

While it is as good as the homebrewed stuff it runs from $3.50 to $4.00 for an 8 ounce bottle.

When a person's starting, it's good to start with two ounces in the morning, then add two ounces in the evening... eventually arriving at 4 ounces in both the morning and evening.

If a person is looking to lose weight, it's good to drink it before meals... and to gain weight, drink it after eating.

Now... you can go to eBay and find how remarkably cheap the starter sets are for both kombucha tea and the kefir grains that are the basis for fresh kefir.

Both have been very effective for me... and generally raised my energy levels and eliminated more inflammation than I expected.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/07/dem-superdelegates-rule-after.html#comment-115297

9/11 I just read the wikipedia page on the tea. It sounds like it might not be so healthy for a diabetic (then again you mention it is good for regulating blood sugar). I am not supposed to consume alcohol and I wonder also about the caffeine in it. I think that could defeat the purpose? Anyway, i have to go have blood drained out of me again (every 3 months) so I will ask about this tea with the doctor as well...

Thanks again.
Cheers.

Tony - it's funny but I don't think I ever registered as a dem. When I first voted I registered as a rep because that was the house I grew up in. Once when I moved and re-registered, I looked at the form and thought,
Heck, I'm not a rep, and checked ind. I have been ever since. That house I grew up in ended up as ind or dem, esp after Bill showed up and the reps went bananas.

I remember years ago writing to Willaim Scranton, gov of Pa, agreeing with him basically, and his office wrote to my father, thinking my unusual first name was a man's. My dad gave me a crooked smile, and told me to be sure to use my own name when I wrote to his own political foe - my dad was a Goldwater man.

My dad started liking reagan, but ed meese did him in. Then the neo-cons went after Bii , esp re Monica, and my dad claimed that reps had nothing to offer him and were mean-spirited to boot. After my dad was killed we got a letter from the DNC - I'm sure he sent them money.

So I'm an independent and a liberal with a few conservative tics, i.e. balancing the budget and law enforcement. For the rest anything goes, but I truly hate dogma and that's what this business of "If you don't like Obama, you're an ass and stupid to boot, and even a rep" is. It's dogma, pure and simple, and when Obama's people put that out, they are NOT NOT NOT helping their candidate.

Gee, I'm glad you thought I made sense! HA! Hope you still do.

Come on folks. Show me anyone Obama could pick that would look this good

http://www.falloutcentral.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/obama-hillary.jpg

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20080604/a-dream-ticket/images/6c18d6b4-62b9-437c-95d0-097914f88c7a.jpg

You're in luck, she's not ready.

Cancer, 9/11? I took massive doses of the powerful anti-oxydent turmeric for 4 years following my bladder cancer surgery and BCG treatments. TIS is one of the cancers that tends to come back year after year, However, it is now 5 3/4 years w/o a second event and cysto says I'm still just fine.

Turmeric tastes terrible, but I think it helped greatly to prevent recurrance. I usually mixed it w/some strong flavoring like spaghetti sauce, salsa, garam masala, or tikka masala. Hmm. I'm getting hungry.

'Bye.

9/11-
One question....what does it taste like?
-g

"I remember years ago writing to Willaim Scranton, gov of Pa, agreeing with him basically, and his office wrote to my father, thinking my unusual first name was a man's. My dad gave me a crooked smile, and told me to be sure to use my own name when I wrote to his own political foe - my dad was a Goldwater man."

Bethy -- that's priceless!

Jamie -- re the pics....we disagree on so little, but this....ha!

I promise you, every night cable tv would be speculating about how she was either trying to one-up him or have him killed.

Gidget,

It is a wonderful fizzy drink.

xrepublican,

I both cook with turmeric and put it into big honking capsules! Good for us (on many levels). My cancer is considered incurable and has become inured to all chemos but it is now in 75% less of my body due to a buncha things people learn to do for themselves.

eurotom,

There is a long history of research in Germany and elsewhere involving its effects on diabetics. Many diabetics use both kefir and kombucha successfully.

There is only a trace element of alcohol in the tea. And while it is made with sugar, the sugar carbs that remain (very few) are transformed to fructose.

It also does a great deal to reverse the damage drugs like metformin will do the GI tract.

It also is used by increasing numbers of Krohn's sufferers.

I've mentioned a friend who is a successful mezzo. Her dad began making kefir for himself two months ago: it's a staple across much of Russia and throughout the middle east.

Over the last six weeks his blood sugar has dropped incrementally to a normal level (without much postprandial or morning spiking). Only time it rose was when he had spilled his supply and needed to start another batch.

I can't guarantee anything. But as someone who has taken hundreds of mgs of prednisone during treatment for years... it really has helped me on a daily basis.

Still not ready.

Jamie,

Utterly gorgeous pic. Is the soda a peace offering?

Oops, she IS ready.

Oh, yes.

During the middle ages flax meal was used as the most common ingredient in western European meals from the poorest to the richest.

I've read oncological historians write that that era is considered to have had the lowest occurence of cancer in the west.

Oops, wrong again. Oh, well.

Turmeric is bitter. Sorry, I meant BITTER. There's no room in it for any other flavors.

I know 2 incurable cases that were given a few months, but have been around for decades. That's my wish for you.

Gotta go eat.

Sorry, I meant to reply to Gidget with my bitter answer.

Low blood sugar confusion, maybe. Let's eat, Dear.

9/11 - great story about two of my favorite people to see on any screen.

Call for info totally off the subject:

I had a small wooden hand-carved statuette from a company called Anri years ago. I have tried looking it up on line and other sites such as collectibles etc. That statuette was in a storage locker which I had at a very bad time so the stuff was all sold. I couldn't get the names of buyers, so want to try to contact the company to learn other options.

does anybody know anything about Anri? I know they are in Italy and do mostly religious stuff, but that's as far as I got. I bought the statuette at a store called
Casagrande, in Italy or Switzerland, and paid a whopping $15 for it, and left behind a companion statuette of a man since I was shocked at the thought of paying so much for something I found pretty. I'd about give my right arm for it and both, now.

Yes, I know, but I was young and dumb and had never owned any art. I tell the entire story today to anybody who questions whether they should spend money they can afford to spend on something they love to look at .
I've truly learned that lesson, but at such cost!

Any ideas would be appreciated.

Spend all you have for loveliness.
Buy it and never count the cost.

http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2008/07/whither-afghanistan-by-dday-in-barack.html

Hey bethy
enjoying the much cooler weather?

Clark has been appearing in conference calls and on TV as an official, campaign sponsored Obama surrogate for months now.

The usual speculation? He wants to run the CIA.

"Michelle Obama contradicted the embedded story-line of her husband’s biography Thursday ... :

His own mother, she said at the beginning of her remarks, was “very young and very single when she had him."

http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/07/11/breaking-michelle-obama-contradicts-baracks-biography/
==============================
"One of the reasons Obama will not release his official birth certificate seems to be the fact the certificate will show his mother and father were not married, and never did get married, because Obama's father was married to a woman in Kenya whom he never divorced.

The issue here ... is not that his parents weren't married. It's 2008, and that's no longer a scandal.

It's more proof Obama can't be trusted ..."

http://hillbuzz.blogspot.com/2008/07/andy-martin-to-call-obama-out-for-lying.html

Boop

Are these the ones you are seeking

http://www.anri.com/eng/index.html

KGC - yes, isn't it spectacular? It could be a little cooler, even. That stifling heat we've had a couple of times now is absolutely a killer. I have a neighbor who has cerebral palsy or one of the other cripplers, and she loves it. Her bones and joints feel a lot better in the heat, so I can't say heat has no pluses, just not for me.

When I'm cold, the wool and other clothes come out. I haven't been able to wear wool in years.

Jamie - yes, that's the company and they seem to have a new website. I've emailed them before with no anwer but i'll try again. If you looked at the figures, the first ones you see are what mine was like. I don't care at all for the little round figures of kids etc.

Mine was maybe 6" high, and waas a renaissance woman with a flat hat on her head and her left arm holding her dress off the floor. She was painted with a thin wash, matte - just miraculously beautiful. Her companion was a man of the same era. I have tried to think what I spent the $15 I saved by not buying him - what did I spend that lousy $15 on? Maybe beer, and we know where that went.

Thanks for looking it up.

btw - no on answered me - is Mika gone for good or is she just re-charging her inanity and other general annoying ways?

Thank you Craig for pointing out one of the new myths of Obamaland

Here is one for you regarding the Freedom of the Press. Top story at Stubborn Facts tonight makes America sound like China. No tears from Liberals it seems

http://stubbornfacts.us/

The second post at SF is about Schumer demogoging IndyMack to death while Dodd makes me sick with his rescue and personal profit which bailed out some culprits of the sub prime mess. Good job Chris...

Today the results of the moderate government in Pakistan are felt by US troops in Afghanistan. Dems blame Iraq....well....

Hitchens discusses another new Liberal article of faith

.http://www.slate.com/id/2195288/

You don't have to love him to see he is right. Democrats want to blame Iraq when Afghanistan is an international affair. Present problems there are the direct consequence of the wonderful post Musharraf era Obama and Richardson lauded during the primary. His prediction was poor judgment and the problems internationally based.

Ahmadinejad is throwing Obama a bone by further delaying tactics. Now he wants to talk to Obama...LOL after Obama said he never said he would talk to Ahmadinejad.

Funny thing is the New Yorker was never attacked when it took aim at Republicans with nasty covers. Even Hillary. Perhaps they should be subject to the Fairness Doctrine.

Well Craig, I gave you a good example of the misuse of power the Freedom of the Press portends. Don't photograph cops on a public highway unless you are Press. Perhaps you might want to chime in.

As far as Iraq, Hitchens does present facts no matter how ugly they sound to Liberal belief.

And what happens to children and women in Pakistan and Iran goes beyond belief. Unfortunately, the Democrats have only ears for the local and Dodd and Conrad have shown a terrible grasp of accountability as they will show us how much more than can help the corporate sector add to our growing national debt.

And Pelosi calls any new drilling a hoax. Yep, she calls the polls a hoax and obviously her great judgment, supreme.

Split the ticket people, or you'll be crying in two years....

Gosh Jamie,

I don't see that in either photo. I don't begrudge you a personal opinion, but in getting to know these two women Sebelious and McCaskill better, I have grown to see two brilliant women to watch in the future of the Democratic Party. I'm proud and excited.

If I didn't know that, I would not think that they look cold in the two pictures. I would be interested in what made them so excited on stage.

Obama looks pleased also. ;0)

bethy,

She turned up in the NYT Fashion and Style section at the second season launch party for "Mad Men".

She looked nuts in the pic.

Sometimes consistency is a virtue: other times it's just a quality.

btw - no on answered me - is Mika gone for good or is she just re-charging her inanity and other general annoying ways?

Posted by: boop | July 14, 2008 8:55 PM

Mika's turn for summer vacation.

bethy,

That pic...

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2008/07/13/fashion/13nite.1.ready.html

BTW,

Mika is back from vacation....This morning's, Joe.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-finkelstein/2008/07/14/mika-new-yorker-obama-cartoon-dangerous

Sheila

Sebelious and McCaskill are certainly comers in the party, but neither has national or international experience. Their skills are ones that Obama already has. Sebelious is better than McCaskill as far as a future national role.

He says TEam of Rivals is his favorite book. Clinton as his VP would be the measure of that Lincoln level of self confidence.

Posted by: Jamie | July 14, 2008 9:08 PM

Its a pickle, but we still have to wait and see what the outcome will be. Obama will pick who he thinks will fill in all of his blanks and those points we won't know until he speaks.

But if I were a betting person, I would say that he doesn't want a hot pistol with a huge ego making life hard in the White House.

So in my opinion, Obama would have to have CLinton's promise and signature that he will stay out unless wanted like an elder statesman.

Boop

It looks to me as if they are the middle man for several different artists, so you need to identify the artist that appealed to you and then check all of their images.

Jamie I did say of both women, the Future of the party...

But I also stated that in my opinion, they didn't look cold and Obama looked happy. ;0)

'Obama would have to have CLinton's promise and signature that he will stay out unless wanted like an elder statesman.'

Sheila,

Take a look at the last paragraph of what I wrote this morning

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/07/dem-superdelegates-rule-after.html#comment-114928

Hahaha....and Sebilous supporters say McCain's wife is Stepford like. Yeah right. She delivered one of the worst speeches EVER> Let's see if she gets re-elected in her home State supporting Obama's positions. Well, not sure anymore which positions they are.

Yeah pick those two charismatic and strong Liberals over a Clinton. That's the ticket. MaCaskill and Sebelious. Wow.

Jamie, expect only political triangulation from Obama. He'll show us all how expediancy trumps principle. And he said nothing about the Betrayus Ad. Patraous betrayed us? Soon he will be commander of NATO forces WITH Obama's blessings.

And when Iraq becomes even more stable, who will get credit, Obama or McCain? When the moderates in Pakistan continue to cave into the Taliban and AQ, who will look stupid, Obama or McCain? When Iran touts WMD and ballistic missiles that can actually hit something, who will look like he lied, Obama or McCain? When the US/Columbia alliance presses Hugo and Leftists back, who will look smart, Obama or McCain? When Obama raises the capital gains tax and corporate taxes, corporations flee and our deficit soars even more with sweet heart bailouts by Democrats, who will look smart, Obama or McCain? As the price of gas rises more and people want to extract gas and oil from the more than 50 BIllion barrels we now have, who will look dumb, Obama or McCain as Pelosi says no?

But never underestimate the stupidity of the American voters. After all they voted for Bush and will likely vote in another pretender.

I would refer to what I know as his self confidence. I seem to remeber a certain Clinton support whom I respect, getting quite upset over his self confidence after New Hamshire as arrogance.

So, I will have to in part disagree with you. Obama has a lot of self confidence. now we will have to see what he comes up with and if after election he was right.

I would add, that I welcome Clinton if that what Obama thinks is best.

Sheila,

In one picture with Hil he is grinning from ear to ear. In the other he is laughing a great big laugh. The pictures with Sebelius and McCaskill he's just sort of smiling a little. All of the pics are just a moment in time, but throughout that whole Unity appearance clinton had him laughing and smiling. He was either enjoying it or he deserves an Oscar nomination.

No argument. Read my above ;0)

"Spend all you have for loveliness.
Buy it and never count the cost."

Great advice for anyone.

Max,

Everything I've been reading points to a good year for Dems in both houses. No guarantees, but so what if McCain gets in and finds himself with 60+ Democratic Senators and a veto proof House.

I don't think JM can win but I like our chances in the legislature.

Jamie - I never thought of going fot the artist - maybe I can find that out from their email address. thanks for a new perspective.

9/11 thanks for the pix. I would say she looks not only crazy, but just plain bad. Maybe that's not her good side - pretty un-attractive. Well, here I was thinking I might start taping mojo again (it's on at 3 or 4 am here) but not if she is on.

She can drive me to terrible behavious faster than anyone else I can think of. She's like a billion mosquitos, just buzzing around with no meaning - just little dumb bits of noise. I literally want to swat at her, to get her to leave me alone.

I just caught the tail end of Craig's appearance on Dan Abrams' show. It's so nice to hear somebody say things you've been thinking all along - Craig is almost the only one who does it these days.

I also get a kick out of Barney Frank - he's also Anne Lewis' brother,and I like her.

When is the international trip? I'm hearing it will take two weeks to complete. Thats thurough.

I think Dems will win a few, but not sweep Congress, so a JM would be a good balance to the Obama Pelosi nightmare. If the Republicans controlled Congress I would probably vote for Obama. Divided government is the best thing right now. The Left and Right are a bunch of idiots. The center has been marginalized, but Obama's pivot is far more phony than McCain's.

Sebelious...LOL holy crap.....LOL

You know if you have some bright ideas worth debating, Stubborn Facts would love to hear ya. Go and defend the new bailouts, cutting military aid to Columbia as well as free trade. Support that moderate regime in Pakistan. Please, take it there are offer a rational theory.

naw.......jeerleading is much easier. Not that you all are jeerleaders. I just find it is far to easy to sit back and spew with so little regard for facts. Did or did not US/Columbia spying on telecommincations break FARC and free Betancourt to the delight of the world?
Has the moderate regime in Pakistan which Obama wanted so much do far worse than Musharraf so far? If the NIE is right about "knowing" Iranian nuclear secrets, where did they build their carbon p-2 centrifuges? Why did Syria cover the blast site with feet of concrete and not allow investigators elsewhere?

Truth is not Party limited ladies and gentlemen. You fail to discover the deeper thruth when you stop asking questions and toe the line. Shame on you.

Craig:

Many pundits argued today that the New Yorker cover worked, and many argued that it didn't. But you were the only one who "moved to the center" and explained how the illustration could have worked better (i.e., with an image of Rush L., for instance, painting the actual cover). Maybe you should be running for president, as you synthesized both points of view and came up with a solution!

The problem Ben is that the New Yorker wants to minimize ALL claims against BO regarding his associations and fictionalized history. They black and white an issue as they did about MAD Bush ready to attack Iran. They have pushed their BS time and time again and now get nailed by Democrats ONLY because it messed with their candidate.

Meanwhile Patraeus betrayedus? McCain was a communist sympathizer? Even Pats CLAIMS he is emotionally unbalanced. Maybe the New Yorker could satirize Kos and Huffington. Maybe they should post a cover with Bush as Hitler.....LOL

Craig is right however, how the New Yorker could have been more effective, but they do what they want. They know best, no matter how wrong history proves them to be........

Anybody see Josh Hamilton of the Texas Rangers at the Home Run Derby at Yankee Stadium tonight? 28 home runs in the first round! Pretty awesome for a guy who was out of baseball for 3 years while kicking a bad drug habit.

Boop

The artist for the first figure on the front page is Kuolt

Here is the direct link to his page

http://www.anri.com/eng/index.html

Click on ANRI LINES
Click on Nativities
Click on Kuolt

It will display his figures. There is also a form to fill out to request a brochure of the Kuolt designed figurines.

By Jonathan Weisman and Jon Cohen
Washington Post Staff Writers
Monday, July 14, 2008; 6:30 PM

A new Washington Post-ABC News poll finds the country split down the middle between those backing Sen. Barack Obama's 16-month timeline for withdrawal from Iraq and those agreeing with Sen. John McCain's position that events, not timetables, should dictate when troops are withdrawn
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/14/AR2008071401853.html

KGC that is bad news for Obama. We see him already try to connect failure in Afghanistan to Iraq, but the Hitchen's link above refutes that. I have studied this in some depth. I will spare you all now, but it is fair to say:
1. moderates in Pakistan are hurting us
2. NATO has not given the help it promised
3. International support has failed
4. All of the above has made the Northern Alliance retreat to protect only themselves.

Obama will lose in a debate on this. Hw will have a lot of explaining to do on why fatalities near the Iranian border, failure of NATO (he has never held a meeting for the committee he leads on this subject), and how "negotiating" with the Taliban has yielded anything but violence.

McCain will have a field day about Obama's predictions regarding getting rid of Musharraf and telegraphing our strikes on Pakistan....

Just look at the other poll results.

The New Yorker and the Hubris of Arrogance

"I am not shedding crocodile tears for Michele and Barack, however. They’ve been getting a free pass from most of the media. Conveniently missing from the Lizza article and the “cartoon” were the faces of those crazy clerics, Jeremiah Wright and Michael Pfleger, the homo hating minister, James Meeks, unrepentant terrorist, Billy “the Kid” Ayers, and last, but certainly not least, Tony “the Slumlord” Rezko. I love the irony–while trying to do a puff piece on Barack, his buddies at the New Yorker, create the image more powerful than that of Michael Dukakis, perched in a tank turret, wearing a goofy expression that reminded me of a stoned Howdy Doody. Now that’s funny. Unintended humor."

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/07/14/the-new-yorker-and-the-hubris-of-arrogance/#more-3592

Like I said earlier Gordo. They tried to blast ALL the concerns by leaving the serious ones out and playing over the top with the ones they thought they could expunge. Obviously not. The only cries about this foolishness was because Obama is the unintended victim. Not a word about what NQ says. It is the lack of the items NQ mentions that makes this satire a tragic comedy.

Obama Says Adios To The Left

"It seems that now that the fairy dust from the Democrat primary has worn off and Obama is now seeking to capture the vote from the so called bitter small town voters who "cling to guns or religion," many in the Democratic party are now beginning to have buyer's remorse.

Obama broke his word on:
Public Financing
Electronic Wiretapping
President Bush's Policy On Religious Based Organizations
Gun Control
Abortion
An Undivided Jerusalem
The Pledge to Debate McCain "Anywhere, Anytime"
NAFTA
Capitol Punishment
On Opposing A Border Wall With Mexico"

http://www.redcounty.com/national/2008/07/obama-says-adios-to-the-left/

Nice job on Abrams tonite, Craig. We miss on teh teevees (you aren't on as often as usual?)!

'We miss *YOU* on teh teevees.'

Stupid fingers.

Jamie - you're right again. I'm going forward from there - I've seen some of the pix before but the sitre is up-dated so maybe it'll work again. the best sign was noting before or after 1952. I got mine in 1966 so maybe they'll know what I mean. Gotta go do some things. Thanks, Jamie.

thanks julia

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/07/dem-superdelegates-rule-after.html#comment-115362

I saw Josh put on a pretty spectacular show in Yankee Stadium.

He has 95 rbis today and he may not be the MVP of the team this year. Ian Kinsler is the second baseman of the Rangers. Look up his stats.

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

You were really good this evening Craig. They need to have your voice of sanity in the middle of all that hyperbole much more often.

Now Time for the premiers of Closer and Saving Grace.

Corey, Senor Dooty:
It was emotional , too, as well as awesome, to see Josh Hamilton hit those 28 homers.
I predict the rules will change, and the homers will carry through all rounds, as Morneau was truly humble and knowingly undeserving of the trophy, as this was Hamilton's night and his show.
This was The Natural and Wonderboy...the dream-story...similar to Ron Kovic's mother's dream that Ron would speak to a large crowd someday ( Kovic, the injured Viet-Vet addressed the 1976 Convention of the Democrats...maybe Craig was there).
So anyway, here we have a man who has conquered his demons , one day at a time, and had a New York crowd chanting his name in the greatest tribute , probably EVER, for a player not on the Yankees (it was at Yankee Stadium)
Here's a man who somehow has risen to the top from the absolute bottom, this Josh Hamilton. Watching this , so awed I had a tear streaming down my cheek, I agreed with one of the commentators: this was a bad night to be an atheist.

The thing with that New Yorker cover is this: My sister who's a college grad and gainfully employed still thinks Obama's a Muslim. She can't even get his name straight. She calls him, "OBark., whatever". When I said what about all that ruckus about over the Reverend Wright, she said, "Humm, oh yeah".

OK, that's middle America who doesn't pay attention to the nuances or ever the details of the candidates.

She's the type who'd see the New Yorker cover and believe it because it's IN PRINT.

tt

Freaky and mabbe funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtKroqrZPmk&feature=related

tt

how many peple would have seen the new yorker
magazine if it were'nt all over the news today ?
not many i suspect
another much to do about nothing story

mqw, that the point. Because this is an instant, electronic world, publishers, politicians and others need to

PAY ATTENTION.

tt

Craig, good to see you live, again. Looking good!

tt

tt more like they need attention payed to them

The recession/depression is marching our way.

Who to blame, who to blame?

A Democrat, of course. Which one?

Schumer. Chuck Schumer of NY. For a report on already public info.

Everyone looks for a scape goat for events that have been unraveling for years.

The usual, pathetic scenario.

tt

a trillion dollar bank bailout
now that's a story

thanks tiptoe

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/07/dem-superdelegates-rule-after.html#comment-115377

oh jamie, sanity??? no wonder they don't call so much anymore. LoL

some good things happened today.

The Closer started a new season.

Amazing Grace started a new season.

Jesse Ventura decided not to run - oh joyous, oh frabjous day!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maxtrue,

1. Your guys, not the Alliance, blew it in Afghanistan. The failed to do what was necessary to capture bin laden and destroy the taliban. They grabbed the country in '02 and in the last year have lost half of it back. republicans continue to say things are fine, we're winning, which shows they cannot be trusted to regain what they lost.

Your guy, Senate Majority Leader bill frist was already talking about power sharing with the taliban 2 years ago. Where was your outrage then?

2. The alleged pacification of Iraq is illusory. The policy of forcing 3 peoples who hate each other to WANT to live together is the fatal flaw to the pacification. The entire boondoggle is a multi-trillion dollar subsidy for Big Oil and halliburton. Now al Maliki wants a timetable for our withdrawal. The Iraqis can't wait for us to leave so they can go back to civil war. So what do your great republican genii propose that we do now, depose our beloved puppet? Install Nguyen Van Thieu? Iraq runs through mccain-bush-cheney's fingers like sand.

3. Your guys haven't won a war since 1898, and that is not a record that builds confidence. Your insinuations that your guys know how to handle the present dangerous situations ring hollow against the appalling republican appeasement of north korea. Heavens, how you guys railed against Bill Clinton's 'weak' north korean policy in the '90s. Now, with mccain-cheney-bush we have a new policy that is visibly wimpier, and the entire world sees it.

In the 2000 election race bush claimed we couldn't fight a 2 front war, and he'd beef up our military. "Hold on," he cried into the mike, "Help is on the way." Your guys have worn our military out fighting the 2 front war bush said we couldn't. Poor planning, poor equipment, poor leadership. Poor vets.

Summary: Because of our sissifed policy with north korea, the morass of Iraq Fiasco II, and our failures in Afghanistan, we have no clout with Iran and little respect around the world. Iraq and Libya are the only 2 countries with whom we now have better relations. It is a shameful record.

All your questions about who will be seen as smart and strong pale into insignificance in the face of the catastrophe that has been the republican military and diplomatic policy.

craig's working late tonight

The New Yorker is a commercial enterprise. The magazine just hit the jackpot. They sell ads and the ad prices are determined by circulation.

After all the fuss, I presume the New Yorker will 'try to be even-handed' and will run a similar cartoon of the mccain's - maybe a pic of Ho Chi Minh on one wall, a thank you letter from Chas. Keating in john's hand, a needle in cindy's arm, an aborted fetus in the fireplace.
Definitely not for the little old lady in Dubuque.

Then everyone here will argue about which cover was more insulting. Hurt feelings, recrimination, and tears loom in our future. We'll all wish we had New Yorker stock.

ha, mqw, i'm always workin. thanks to turner classic movies. doc on alfred hitchcock right now

"embrace-your-maturity" sedan

Posted by: Craig Crawford Author Profile Page | July 14, 2008 11:28 AM

LMAO!

tt

you know, hitchcock did not drive because he was so afraid of the police that he could not bear the risk of ever getting a traffic ticket

i'm on the after watch 2400-0600
towboat pilot presently northbound on the
mississippi mile 537'' around greenvile miss'
with 35 barges in tow''' have a nice moonlit night

Hich needed a sedan.

tt

Hitchcock's first film -- The Lodger (1927):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAwazCW7fzk

1927?? That film's even before my time.

tt

Posted by: tiptoe | July 15, 2008 3:18 AM

LOL
50 years before my time......
heck, even my parents weren´t born then...LMPO...

hitchcock's genius was in the melding of good and evil. he understood that the modern world was not about the villain who kicks the dog, but instead about the charmer whose wickedness is utterly undetectable

Craig,

Thanks so much for the link to "The Lodger." I read that story a long time
ago. It was so well-written and scary. Hitchcock is the perfect director.

About your new car purchase:

I love the Nissan Maxima.

My last three cars have been Nissan Maximas. I currectly own a Maxima
SE. The cars are roomy inside with lots of leg room. They retain their
value and are low maintenance. Maximas have the appearance of a luxuary
car like a Bimmer or a Lexus, while not costing nearly as much.

Be sure to have the recommended check-ups including oil changes often.

Jason, clever of you. My post doesn't even show before your quoting moi.

Nice trick. ;-)

tt

why thanks much for the car talk prof marcia. very encouraging. i get emotional about trading cars. never owned one for less than ten years and saying good bye to our '97 mazda was most difficult. we scotch-irish are loyal to inanimate objects, and i cried as i always do when giving up a car. so i am now in the process of bonding with the maxima.

Craig,

Caution spoilers:

That is so true about Hitchcock. Sometimes, Hitchcock employs a twist on the use of "the charmer whose wickedness is utterly undetectable" like in "Suspicion" with Cary Grant and Olivia de Havilland. Grant plays the hunky, charmer who sweeps the rich heiress, de Havilland, off her feet. They marry and he basically lives off her until he can get his business going. He's a likable, smoothy who weaves a web of mystery by his suspicious actions and half-truths. Olivia begins to think he is trying to kill her to gain her money, as does the audience. But, the ironic twist at the end of the file, clears Grant.

the other thing i like about hitchcock is that his characters are never morally innocent, no matter how innocent they appear. how true.

I am Irish, too, Craig. I also feel very loyal to my objects since I'm not a
spendthrift. I usually keep my Maximas a long time, caring for them
as if they were beloved pets, spoiling them. But, it pays off because even
my oldest Maxima gets attentions when I take her out. Often, men saunter
over and flirt with her. One guy asked me yesterday how old she was and when
I told him, he gasped, "Wow. She looks so much newer." I admitted she'd
recently had some work done. He was in love. I could tell. I told him she
wasn't for sale.

Craig,

That is so true like the character Jimmy Stewart played in
"Vertigo." He was very complicated.

and all the characters in The Birds, prof marcia -- he made them all responsbile for environmental degradation, no matter how innocent and sweet they seemed -- and that was decades before most people had any clue what he was doing in that film

hitchcock was once asked for his idea of pure happiness. he said, "a clear horizon. no clouds. no shadows. nothing."

now there was a human being who understood vision

nite all

TT, what happend with your post. LOL... is hitchcock in the building, cause things get weird....

Anywhow,
Can we talk about things that are actually from my time also. I celebrate my 31st on Saturday and I feel old. If we start discussing 1927 I will feel like the queen mum being alive and well at 103 :))

I meant : alive and well at 108 .))

looks like some people have been watching way
to much tv

"you know, hitchcock did not drive because he was so afraid of the police that he could not bear the risk of ever getting a traffic ticket"

Amazing! I kind of understand that. If I hear a siren behind me, I'm always sure I've done something wrong.

"I celebrate my 31st on Saturday and I feel old. If we start discussing 1927 I will feel like the queen mum being alive and well at 103 :))"

You're still a baby, Jason! The 30s and 40s are especially great....enjoy them!

NEW THREAD

Craig
You told us yesterday "at most conventions, there's a cursory roll call for all candidates and then a motion on the floor to unanimously back the winner by acclamation.'

OK. Here's a hypothetical for you. (Pay attention Geek Esq. This is how they do it in law school.) What if, during the acclamation, at the call for "all opposed" 1636.5 voices hooted, and hollered, and caused a general ruckus. What would happen next?

Here's another hypothetical. (After all, the unity narrative has been so convincing.) How is the DC going to avoid this spectacle?

Duh! This is what the Just Say No Coalition has been saying all the time. Senator Obama and the DNC officials have been undermining the Democratic process for many months. Party official are want to SELECT the candidate, not ELECT. Donna Brazille needs to stand by her words, "Voters will elect the candidate. If not, I will quit my job."

Obama warned Super-delegates to vote the way their states have voted. However, super-delegates in Massachusetts -- Sens. Kerry and Kennedy, Gov Patrick were pledged to him, in spite of the voters of the state overwhelmingly voting for Hillary Clinton. Senator Obama you can't have it both way, or can you?
http://www.taylormarsh.com/archives_view.php?id=27389

The voice of the voters are not being heard in this election. I agree with both Donna Brazille and Senator Obama on one issue, super-delegates should be the voices of their constituents. That is why the Denver Group is pushing for an open convention with roll call and vote. Voters are saying, "NO DEAL" to a selected candiate.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/02/the-super-deleg.html

Actually, BO now has 69 more pledged than HRC. But subtract from BO and give back to HRC the 4 delegates resulting from votes cast by voters in Michigan for HRC, which the DNC gave to BO, and the 30 delegates resulting from votes cast by voters for "Uncommitted," all of which votes the DNC awarded to BO although he withdrew his name from the ballot, based on their presumption voters would have voted for him if his name had remained on the ballot, notwithstanding JE also wasn't on the ballot. In that case, the pledge delegate lead shrinks to 35.

When people get over their shock at this 'news' that the Democratic primary contest is by no means over, I hope this incites them to further investigate what other 'news' the MSM has failed to report.

http://politics.nytimes.com/election-guide/2008/results/delegates/index.html