Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Well, here's what I know -- none of the Latinos I know are now planning to vote.

Aside from that...and since I seem to always bring up feminst issues...here's what I wish would have happened when Obama's campaign used "I Got 99 Problems and a Bitch Aint one"

I wish the ghost of Janis Joplin would have elbowed her way on stage and said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sW-TjMLsDe0

McCain will be quite well with the Hispanic vote. He could get over 50%. I know that sounds crazy, but you never know.

VJ Machiavelli
http://www.vjmachiavelli.blogspot.com
ps McCain is the Teddy Roosevelt of the 21st century, while Obama is the Neville Chamberlain. Obama wants us to keep taking off our shoes. I am tried of taking of my shoes. I want to put them back on and never take them off again.

Viva Obama?

that was kinda disgraceful, patsi. geez, i get tired of reading these insults

i meant i get tired of the insults on both sides, by the way.

but on a positive note, the weekend stroll through our nation's founding was a fun read. thanks to you guys for playing along

And here's my Janis salute to the Republicans:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-g7Q7hXn7o&feature=related

Thought I would check in but it looks like the same old nonsense.

I'll tell you a story. In 2004 , GWB visited Holland. He stopped at an ice cream place called "Captain Sundae". They have a bunch of pictures that were taken of GWB with their employees on that day. They posted this pictures along the side of the building. I was there a few days ago. Everyone that looked at those pictures of GWB remarked about "What an evil man he is!" I'm not just talking about adults, kids were saying that too! Considering how Republican-leaning this area is, I would take that as a bad sign for McCain.

Craig -- you are right...we'd probably kill each other! ha!

Guys, I'm telling you. Forget the past four elections. This is going to be a landslide win, up and down the ticket. My friends and I used to joke that the country would need to be run into the ground by someone black would be elected president. Well, guess what has happened. Here's a little snapshot of what's going to go on:

The Republicans will remind everyone that not only is Barack black, but he's REALLY black. That will get them the overt and nascent racist vote. But hell, Obama wasn't getting that vote anyway.

Barack has a very competent staff who has out organized this motley GOP crew on the ground and like a boxer with power and speed, will grind McCain in states they thought were red, but will shade purple. See: NC, GA, Montana, etc.

This election will not be close. AND I think Hillary will be a Supreme Court Justice, which personally, I think she'll thrive. She's smarter than Scalia and on our side.

Oops, I must be tired. I meant that the country would have to be run into the ground BEFORE someone black would be elected president.

Well, we agree on one thing, D. The GOP has already conceded by nominating McCain, which begs the question, why?

This immigration problem is like the Iraq problem in this: our leaders and candidates all have different ways to attack it.
It's confusing for the average person to fully understand it.
Joe Biden has what I consider t be the most complicated solution for Iraq, and I bet less than one per cent of the voting populace of the US can describe Biden's plan. Some of us who follow the happenings in Iraq daily have to really think before we speak so we don't "pull a McCain" and get all mumble-mouthed and get Sunni and Shia all mixed up.
And I would love to see a street poll asking just two questions: who is al-Maliki ? Who is Moqtada al-Sadr? I bet only one in a hundred could tell the interviewer the answers.
And on immigration, we need to know answers. How much a threat to legal citizen's jobs and safety are the illegal aliens?
Some say "The Fence" is a joke...then we turn on the TV and see border guards say how well it is working,. where it is already built and staffed.
How far will the candidates go in pledging total closure by fence of the southern border?
I was in a room the other day and The Glen Beck Show was on , and the topic was how LA is a terror-zone now because illegal aliens roam the city and attack innocent Americans at will...and LA County Jail is half-full of illegals...we need to know if this is a lie or the truth, although I think I know the answer...

Corey, interesting and I think that's true all over the country NOW. I just wish all those folks were paying attention YEARS ago.

As for the Latino thang, I stopped by Half Price Books today and picked up Spanish CDs inasmuch as it's the national language of Texas. I'd much rather put the time into more French though.

I had to take a taxi to DFW and the African driver got a call. He was speaking a kind of French. French enough so that I could understand it anyhow. I liked that. So much Spanish flies around me here, and I only know a few words. I actually know more German than Spanish even though I never studied either.

The driver was from the Ivory Coast.

As it is, whenever I try to recall and say anything in Spanish, it come up French and takes too long to retrieve the Spanish. I'll probably wind up speaking FreSpanglish or some such.

tt

Dex, babe, there ya are!

*waving*

tt

My point is we need to know EXACTLY how Obama and McCain stand on immigration . There is no way of knowing what they actually will do when elected...
nash , of TrailMix here, was the first I can recall to write here that whatever Democrat ran would win easily.
That is not true.
Bush had a terrible first term and the evil magic of the repuggs worked...they made it sound like Bush's first made us safer and all that goddam bullshit.
Bush has low ratings now, true, but many repuggs who now see what a screw-up Bush is also realize Bush himself is not running, but they DO NOT want a Dem in office...and McCain is "different enough" for them , compared to Bush, that they will vote for him.
Obama is not helping the cause, either. The talkies on Sunday focussed on how Obama is hedging on his promise to end the Iraq war by April , 2010...I am not saying this, I agree with Kerry, this is just more repugg evil magic...but it's out there, all over the teevees of America, many owned by repuggs, itching to cast anti-Obama votes.

HELLO TIPTOE!
Hey, I bought you a new mop bucket, but I will have to sweep the floor first...lots of bull shit to clean up here at TrailMix Central!

TIPTOE GIVE ORDERS AND THE PLACE GETS CLEANED UP!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxieLcA5PLQ

..and the TrailMixers dig for facts!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZC541psEO8A&NR=1

any Biblical scholars in here, amateur or otherwise?

nvm- found what i was looking for. peace out.

I thought about posting this on the last post, but was afraid it would be missed by too many.

Ahem.

Who the hell is Strug?

Very bluntly, I have enjoyed this blog, but won't be around much longer if the current bar fight keeps up. In my opinion and I have a right to that opinion and to voice it here, about three or four of the people here have taken to barking out their beliefs and analyses and interpretations at the rest of us. To my ninth-graders, I would have said
"Grow up."

I get carried away and voice my thoughts in some pretty long posts, but I don't think I have ever commented on anyone else's intelligence, motives, pasttimes, behaviour, moral or physical status, religion, family, friends - oh, so many things. Now I will.

Frankly, you guys are being inconsiderate and over-bearing, in my opinion. I do NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT
want to be lectured by you or be educated by you.

Further, I do NOT NOT NOT NOT want to read your insults about each other.

If you want to agree and ponder whence your disagreements come, do so by all means. If you want to explain how everyone else is in intellectual prison and you'd love to set us free, drop dead.

If I'm the only one who feels this way. post it and I'll get lost, with a big smile on my face.

In case anyone is wondering, "What brought THAT on?"
I had just spent quite a few minutes catching up on the July 4th blog and then this one, and it took a while. By the end, I was so disgusted I was asking myself if I should say something different from my usual comments- I don't like to impose my views on others.

Obviously, I decided to at least set my views out there. I'm not the only one who has said such things. Craig has tried to settle things down, and for a while it was getting pleasant and INTERESTING. But If you look back at the last two days, you'll see several people trying to lighten it up and lot of people becoming
silent. You are not INTERESTING when you bully people.

So this time I do want to impose my views on others. I want to blog where people are interesting and interested in other people's thoughts and insights.

Oh, yeah, I also don't like it when bullies try cheap attacks on people I've enjoyed talking with.

sorry, craig, if I'm out of line. but I meant it.

So Where’s Murphy?

"McCain is frustrated. He thinks he can beat Obama (politicians are pretty confident in their own abilities). But he isn’t convinced his campaign can beat Obama’s campaign. He knows that his three-month general election head start was largely frittered away. He understands that his campaign has failed to develop an overarching message. Above all, McCain is painfully aware that he is being diminishe(d by his own campaign."

Murphy)"....his great skill has always been an ability to find a clear theme for his candidates, as he did for McCain in 2000."
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/07/opinion/07kristol.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&oref=slogin

bethyboo,
You're right. All of it.

But hope you don't leave. Think of it as your contribution to the rest of us, to stick around and help keep us going.

Just read who you want to read and skip those who deserve to be skipped, because they seldom say anything worth while or kind to say. Take your pick.

We need your ideas and take on things. Like so many others that are important here too. Variety is good. Don't give up on everyone, because of a few. You can do it.

nite

If my posts bother you, beth, just ignore them. I certainly don't want to chase anyone off the blog. I come and go capriciously; I won't be around for long.

The internet being what it is, I'm sure there will be another jerk to come along and replace me, so maybe this isn't the best place for you. You'll find the same phenomenon on any forum that allows participants to post anonymously. If perusing posts here upsets you, it isn't worth the toll on your emotions.

There are plenty of moderated forums where such inanity is filtered. Maybe some of your friends here could suggest a few. I can think of a few reasons why Craig doesn't moderate this forum, the foremost being that with a career and a family, he probably has better things to do.

I can appreciate how personal attacks are rarely, if ever, justified. It also speaks to the compassion of your character that suck attacks upset you. The fact that such transgressions are leveled without actual personal familiarity (as opposed to an online persona) mitigates the vitriol, at least for me. No one here knows me personally or has ever spent time in the same room with me, so there is nothing they can say that would affect me emotionally.

All that said, and with all due respect, it isn't fair that you request participants debate within your parameters. Politics is a blood-sport, and the administration of human lives is an even messier business. The discussion of such topics is bound to be equally vicious. If expression were to be curtailed in the interest of civility, I'm afraid important ideas could be lost due to controversial subject matter or fear of offending fragile sensibilities. I personally don't feel that is anyone's best interest. I could be wrong.

In that spirit, I won't let the fact that you called for my death get to me. With all sincerity, I hope you feel better.

The first thing for me to say is that I wasn't talking about you.

Next, I'm also sure you realize that my uttereance of the childhood phrase to drop dead meant nothing of the sort.

I appreciate the way you always respond to my posts nicely.

There are plenty of blogs but I like this one cuz there aren't that many where people are civil. There are also thousands of them where people who want to push others around have lots of company.

"All that said, and with all due respect, it isn't fair that you request participants debate within your parameters. "

I see what you are saying and I respectfully disagree with you. All I said was if that was going to be the norm, it wasn't for me. I wouldn't dream of requiring others to do as I like - I have always liked it here and see a sudden change in attitude which is interested ONLY in a fight and name-calling, not in exchanging ideas. I just wanted to voice my irritation, and that's all I did. I know politics is a blood sport, but that doesn't mean one has to use insults to voice his or her opinion. I want to hear disagreement, but the insults, whether
meant or not, are extremely unpleasant for by-standers.

So, no, I didn't mean you. I do not think you are a jerk and I appreciate your comments

I'm 65 and however much longer ( how's that for cobbling a sentence together?) I live, I will not have it filled with bullies and thugs, and I've been reading some of that lately. That's all. Oh, yes, I feel fine. I'm not angry or upset - I just hit the brick wall. I just don't want to read all that garbage, or to even have to skip it.

Thanks for the thought, but I am a jerk. Of the highest order. My personal life is in turmoil right now, and participating here is a welcome, yet counter-productive distraction for me. My circumstances foster the negativity expressed here, and I apologize to any victims of it. Whether perceived by you or not, I am aware of it and my contributions to the climate you have lamented.

Once again, not trying to chase you away, but logging off is probably best for the both of us. Life is too short. Unfortunately for me, and most likely very evident to most of you, will-power has never been my strong suit.

I would suggest you keep in touch with your friends via Craig's facebook, and maybe one of you could start an exclusive blog where you could share your ideas without fear of incursion from trolls such as myself or the others with whom we are all 'virtually' familiar.

Anyway, here's to many more in peace and prosperity.

The following article is above the fold on page one of this morning's Journal:
Obama Faces 'Hillraiser' Backlash
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121539354782631403.html?mod=hpp_us_pageone

Flatus
Oh ya."He starts tossing hand grenades".That about sums it up!! Thanks

Re my comment about Hillraiser Backlash. Didn't realize that the link would be truncated as subscriber only. You can read more of it here:
http://www.newseum.org/todaysfrontpages/hr.asp?fpVname=WSJ&ref_pge=gal&b_pge=2

Flatus, agree with your comment....

Anywho,
Do you think the backlash will be negative for the future of HRC.... ??????? I think so. I think people who cannot be for BO should just move to the background and let this thing play out, let the man run his show.... I was mad as hell in the begining but have now taken a back seat... I will not ever vote for BO, even if she becomes the VP runningmate, but to be brutal towards him out in public is not the way to help her...
I sit , discuss and shut up... LOL

He will bruise (is allready bruising) himself..
If tjhese pople, the hillraisers continue to speak out frankly against him, we can only pray that BO wins, because if he doesn´t, the media and the rest of the BO machine will fire their ammunition at HRC...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67J_66hdN-I

..Analyst: Iraqis ‘Owe Us’ 100-Year Leases On Their Oil, ‘We Ought To Take It’
New York Times reported that four Western oil companies — Exxon Mobil, Shell, Total, and BP — are in the final stages of negotiating no-bid oil contracts “to service Iraq’s largest fields.”

After Denying Involvement In Iraqs NoBid Oil Contracts US Revealed To Be Integral To Deals
http://fav.or.it/post/171437

Friday, July 04, 2008
Secret report: biofuel caused food crisis
"..The figure emphatically contradicts the US government's claims that plant-derived fuels contribute less than 3% to food-price rises."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/jul/03/biofuels.renewableenergy

Just dealt with a customer service rep who was a wwwwaaaayyyy bigger jerk than me. Here's to relativity.

" I think people who cannot be for BO should just move to the background and let this thing play out,"

You're right Jason -- if not, HRC will be blamed if he flames out, no matter what the truth of the matter is....

thanks pat

Animal lovers will find this followup to the Michael Vick dogfighting scandal hopeful:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/06/AR2008070602351.html?hpid=artslot

"Just dealt with a customer service rep who was a wwwwaaaayyyy bigger jerk than me...Posted by: champ |

Champ,
You're NOT a jerk.

Christmas in July? The surrogates are descending upon the media like a bunch of seasonal Santa Clauses (I hope this is the plural of a singular Santa) defending and defining their guy. Maybe this will be a landslide election, maybe not. It is already gone to boring since the gal is gone. And everything repug is naughty and everything dem is nice.

Champ - once again I have to disagree. You're no jerk. A lot of your turmoil comes thru in your comments, and it is the product of a disruption in your life. We all have those and they always show up in our words and behaviour. I'm not talking about someone who is on edge. Whatever you do, don't drop out on us.

I'm talking about someone who is being nasty for nastiness' sake - or actually, someone who is irresistibly compelled to denigrate the knowledge and intelligence of others, using barbed personal darts.

A pedant - that's what I mean. You are not pedantic, champ - you are searching. Most of us are looking or wondering or searching, but our pedant doesn't need to. Our pedant.........well, our pedant may be right about some things, but our pedant....okay, this time I am going to refrain from name-calling, but , who knows. I'm disgusted enough with his/her game-playing, I just might succumb (except I think you all just might like him/her and I don't want to upset you. no, it's not you, patsi.)

I think I couched all this in the wrong language and I'm gonna have trouble digging myself out.. But I stand by my original statement: there is a bully here and he/she/it is anti-thetical to healthy growth.

um, if anyone still cares about the subject of latino voters, my take is that by 2012 or 2016, "the latino vote" will be refined further into "the mexican-american vote," "the cuban-american vote," the "central-american-american vote," etc. i think there are something like 18 million registered latino voters, and even from my limited interaction with them, it is obvious they are not a homogeneous bloc.

i'm going to shamelessly promote myself and ask you to visit my site:
http://www.marykittneel.com
if you get a moment. thanks.

This is an article from 2004 about the hispanic vote in the presidential elections of 2000 and 2004.
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/nadler200412080811.asp

bethyboo
I think you expressed yourself very well. If anyone gives you trouble, just say so....no one beats up on Sonomans and gets away with it.....:)
Hi from Guerneville!

Mary Kitt-Neel

Enjoyed the bull...nice site.

bethyboo, I prefer pedants to pendants (new usage alert, to wit: One who hangs around contributing little but bling bling.).

A great quote from Mary Kitt-Neel's blog:

" Iran, it appears, is debating instituting the death penalty for bloggers. Bloggers, Iran charges, disturb the "mental security in society."

Well, that's what good writing does: it disturbs the status quo and makes people use their brains. As far as I'm concerned, if we don't do that, we might as well start living in caves again. And I have to admit to feeling slightly heady and badass knowing that the Iranian government would want to kill me."

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/07/courting-the-latino-vote.html#comment-111309

Champ, if your meaning in this comment is to tell those who don't like you to go somewhere else (and i certainly hope it isn't), that is not how things work around here. I don't throw anybody out, and visitors don't either.

And, Patsi, besides killing you, it will make every young (in mind) Iranian absolutely crazy. Me thinks, if we would butt out, Iranians would solve the problem of a berserk theocracy all on their own.

Bethyboo,
I understand exactly what you're saying.
I just happen to be here for a few minutes when Champ wrote that this morning, and at the time you weren't here to respond immediately, . I wanted so badly to tell Champ you didn't mean him. I wanted to tell him that you actually like him. I know this because I can tell by the way you two interact. But I didn't, because I felt it was none of my business.

I also know you're talking about the general situation and not about how someone's treating you personally. You can handle yourself with no problem. It's admirable that you want this to be a better place.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/07/courting-the-latino-vote.html#comment-111309

There was just one missing element.

"needed the flaming tilda of sarcasm"

KGC...thanks for the article. In southern New Mexico during the 2004 election, GWB's campaign effectively used 'Viva Bush' in marketing to the Hispanic population. And they marketed to the poorest of Hispanics in this area. And they did it with food....they fed hundreds at the political rallies. And we were all amazed at how well it worked at getting out the vote for Bush. Yep, there are still a bunch of bumper stickers in the area with Viva Bush.

"I don't throw anybody out, and visitors don't either."

Yeah, Craig, but that doesn't keep us from complaining. And we complain, you tell us it's a bore.

bethyboo..... if you leave, I will miss you.... as I've already said.... I LOVE to read your posts.....

champ... I don't think you're a jerk..... I enjoy the fact that you bring the libertarian perspective here....

Craig.... when you side with the source of the problem..... you become just one more enabler.....

Bonde wino.... nice to see you here again....
and I'm with you..... this election has become a real snoozer for me.....

I should have specified that both paragraphs I quoted are from Mary -- don't want to take any credit for her great post! :)

RR

Been working too much for much less these days....I feel like the female Rip Van Winkle...I don't recognize my country like I used to...things seems rather dismal. I am assuming it is just depression. Or maybe just a personal recession. ; ) I am waiting for one of the Santa Claus surrogates to brighten my future.

And I have to admit to feeling slightly heady and badass knowing that the Iranian government would want to kill me."
Posted by: Patsi Author Profile Page | July 7, 2008 9:41 AM

Patsi,
LOL
I often open my mouth without thinking. If you only knew how many times I've known beyond any doubt that someone wants to kill me.

Ouch. When your friends turn on you, it's not pleasant
Frank Rich Editorial

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/04/opinion/04fri1.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Craig...perhaps it is impossible to stop a war.

hope everyone had a great weekend....
I ate too much..... especially watermelon..... had a great time with friends and family.....

but I made sure I had time to read..... during the summer, I forgo reading political books unless they're fictional.... I read Geraldine Brooks' fictional account of the father in Little Women and the Civil War entitled "March"....

it was a great read..... Ms Brooks obviously did a lot of research not only on the Civil War, but also on Concord Massachusetts and the transcendentalist movement..... I highly recommend it....

as for Hispanics and the election..... I couldn't help but think when the speaker said that Hispanics might be the group to decide this upcoming election, .... that that is what so many other groups think about themselves too.... no matter our technological achievements..... we're all basically still tribal....

RR...is the watermelon the aphrodisiac as the media now claims!?? : )

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/07/the-declaration-of-independenc.html#comment-111210

Patsi,
Before I go, just want to tell you I loved your 9:12 post last night.

. we're all basically still tribal....Posted by: RebelliousRenee | July 7, 2008 10:08 AM

Renee,
At least that's the way the politicians see us.

Later.

RR...is the watermelon the aphrodisiac as the media now claims!?? : )Posted by: Blonde wino July 7, 2008 10:10 AM

Oh, and Blonde.
I guess if the media says so, it must be true.
(did you notice all this watermelon information came out right before the 4th of July weekend)

Chloe....tomatoes getting dissed and watermelon getting elevated. So, the fruit wars continue, but vegies may have been the actual cause of the poor tomato fruit's downfall.

Pew also has figures on the Hispanic vote from 2006
http://pewhispanic.org/factsheets/factsheet.php?FactsheetID=26

Blonde Wino
And don't forget in 2004 Shrub had George P stumping for him.

Mary

Tried to leave a comment on your site, but your visual verification picture isn't working so it would accept the message.

After reading several posts, I guess what is missing is the suspense in the election process. We no longer elect presidents...we market them...Obama is a brand. A vote is no longer a vote.

Maybe we shouldn't shop for a POTUS in the Senate.

Craig,

That wasn't my intent at all. To be terse, I was just trying to cheer someone up. I think in the context of the conversation, my meaning was clear, but I may not be as articulate as I'd like to believe. I understand your contention, on more than one level, but I assure you, my aim is never to stifle dissent or exclude anybody. That you would glean that from my comments is a little disheartening, but whatever. No skin off my teeth. Have a good one.

From the NPR story

"With a growing number of media outlets, even as Spanish political ads multiply, they are becoming less visible to English speakers. Especially this year, as political marketing migrates to cell phones.

"I'm looking at the data right now — and, of those who send or receive a text message on a daily basis, 73 percent of Hispanics do, while only 53 percent of whites do across the board," says Jed Alpert, CEO of Mobile Commons, a company that sets up text messaging systems for political campaigns.

Those numbers have been noticed by the campaigns. The McCain campaign is planning to reach out to Hispanics with text messages, but on this, the competition is out in front: If you text Obama the letters E-S-P, you are automatically signed up for campaign updates ... en Espanol."

The first election to use cell phones extensively in a campaign was in the Philippines. I find this so interesting.

Frankly, as far as immigration is concerned I believe Bill Maher probably has about as logical a solution as anyone. He says instead of the 700 mile fence just build a 700 mile Walmart and have the Mexicans come in the back door to work and the shoppers come in the front door. Every night the Mexicans can go home and the shoppers get what they want. May sound silly, but has anyone come up with a more reasonable plan. I frankly don’t give a damn about anyone coming over the border to earn a living earning low wages, but I don’t want a terrorist to come over who might want to do harm to this country. Lou Dobbs would be out of a job if the immigrants were kept out permanently. Would be a real blessing, IMO.

this deserves repeating with emphasis:
After a while these people get tired of trying and they disappear with enoermous roar, because no one will react on his or her reply... Let it be buddy... :))
Posted by: Jason

so once more with feeling
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67J_66hdN-I

We no longer elect presidents...we market them...Obama is a brand.

Posted by: Blonde wino | July 7, 2008 10:37 AM

WHEW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
On the money....And we have a winner....

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/07/courting-the-latino-vote.html#comment-111361

much obliged, champ

From the last thread:

“Critics say that Presidential candidate Barack Obama tries to “be all things to all people” and that he makes too many “pie-in-the-sky” promises.”

Doesn’t that description sound like a Hillary Clinton position? The Clintons have always run their races on being centralists. Yet, when Obama moves to the center he is demonized for it. It is interesting to me that it was AFTER Obama’s meeting with Bill Clinton via telephone that he came out with some of these centralist ideas. Possibly a strategy that may have been suggested by Clinton? I have not kept up with everything happening in the campaign because when I go on vacation I’m on vacation and don’t hear the news. Also, we had a non-Obama supporter with us who is mad as hell that Clinton did not win, so in the condo whenever we passed any news channel it did not stay on for more than a second to keep the peace. So forgive me if I am misstating something here.

Max keeps ranting through volumes and volumes of tiring diatribe about all of these moves to the center by Obama when, in fact, he was a Clinton supporter and she wore out the middle trying to appease everyone on both sides of the fence. Now, he hates Obama so much he cannot understand the tactical move to win this election. We CANNOT at any cost allow the conservatives to continue with their plans, or lack of, for our future. THIS COUNTRY cannot afford it and the WORLD is waiting and hoping for a brighter future for all…something that will NOT happen with a McBush as president.

and I believe Obama is a better brand for our country then the McCain brand...

Before anyone chooses to insult me, that's my opinion.

Cada uno está hablando del voto hispánico

"If you look at it in detail, though, the Hispanic electorate mostly seems to vote the way Thomas Frank suggests everyone should in What's the Matter With Kansas -- poorer Hispanics vote Democratic, richer ones vote Republican, and social and cultural issues just don't seem to play very much. Because Hispanics are poorer-than-average this leads to a big pro-Democratic tilt. I think it's clear that Republicans can hurt themselves with the immigration issue by acting like racist demagogues but the GOP's primary problem with this voting group really is things like S-CHIP rather than a lack of sufficient immigration-related pandering. "
http://matthewyglesias.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/07/hispanics_and_pocketbooks.php

Karolena...Bill M stated that as a joke (a bit racist, too) not a solution. I live on the border and the problem has become a bit more complicated. The Mexican government has declared war on drug cartels and the border towns are now a war zone. Juarez has had over 200 murders this year and it is 'killing' the local border economy. When the border was fluid, many Americans traveled to Mexico for medical and dental care along with shopping for prescription drugs. Now, it is too dangerous to travel across the bridges....for both Americans and Mexicans.

Karolenna,
What part of ohio are you in? I am in the Northeast

Rabinowitz had a good oped in today''s Journal. Perhaps someone can find a link to it.

mary kitt-neel posted: "the latino vote" will be refined further into "the mexican-american vote," "the cuban-american vote," the "central-american-american vote," etc. i think there are something like 18 million registered latino voters, and even from my limited interaction with them, it is obvious they are not a homogeneous bloc.
respectfully inquiring of latinos/latinas doesn't the term "hispanic" more accurately apply to those who come from spain?

Yeah, but when Obama seems to be moving toward the middle, he claims that what he has said lately is being blown out of proportion. Many columnists don't like what Obama has said or done lately. He obviously doesn't have to worry about losing the Dem nomination now, but he is saying things he didn't say during the primaries. That's what people don't like. To me, it seems as though he's trying to look at some things more realistically.

This is Abu Gonzales' take on the hispanic vote from a recent opinon piece in the LATIMES. Really just for laughs

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-gonzales2-2008jul02,0,3439140.story?track=rss

Mornin' all.

I had a great politics free weekend. Not a single Sunday talk show, not a minute of MSNBC or Fox, and not one op-ed piece. Lots of Wimbledon, doing chores for Mrs. P, and just generally hanging on the 4th eating ribs and drinking wine (yeah, I know beer would be a better match for ribs and the 4th, but hey, I like wine) and dodging thunderbumpers while waiting for the fireworks, and generally enjoying life. Hope most of you did the same. I recommend breaks from politics and the personal nastiness we see here from time to time - it helps clear the mind to consider such things as the importance of the Hispanic vote in the upcoming election.

CQP' s polltracker, citing Pew, has a good take on the importance of the Hispanic vote, and where it may matter.

"Pew says that Hispanics "constitute a sizable share of the electorate in four of the six states that President Bush carried by margins of five percentage points or fewer in 2004." These states were New Mexico (where Hispanics make up 37 percent of state's eligible electorate); Florida (14 percent); Nevada (12 percent) and Colorado (12 percent)."

Those four states are all very close right now, and could be seen as the new (except FL) swing states in this election.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/polltracker/2008/07/where-obamas-edge-among-hispan.html

BTW, many thanks to Dexter for reminding me that the Tour de France began this weekend. Team Columbia (the US team) sounds pretty strong. For those so inclined, the best place to visit for ongoing coverage is http://www.versus.com/tdf

Pogo....I am so happy you prefer wine.

This article brings up Obama's move to the middle. It defends him, but also questions his moves lately.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/20080707/cm_huffpost/111099;_ylt=Ai7KOzS0dU4PmjRDlZxFnves0NUE

Here is the Rabinowitz column

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121538889902431161.html?mod=opinion_main_commentaries

Wow

The Dem convention venue for the final night is being changed to the football stadium in order to admit a crowd expected to be over 75,000 to see Obama accept the nomination.

He is rapidly becoming the political equivalent of a "Pet Rock" or "Mood Ring"

I think Obama has one primary goal in mind and that is winning the White House.

Remember that the information industry (all media) strives to make a story out of everything....find the angle no one else sees, make that statement the headline....etc...who has the best photo of the day...who tripped up today...take words and twist intended meaning...it's no wonder some are getting aggravated.
____

I have grown to really Like Michelle Obama....going to read Chef Shelia's post! Thanks for the heads up.

Unlikely_Burrito, I am in a NE Columbus suburb. If you know John Kasich's hometown, that is also mine. Many Repugs here but Obama seems to have a lot of support. I'm not going to put my signs in the yard yet, because my neighborhood is pretty much Republican; but, after the convention I expect to see the Obama signs and will put up mine.

I have many relatives here who are Obama supporters while the Clinton supporters in the family are in SE Ohio, a place Obama did not win. They are people who believe what is preached in the pulpits on Sunday and that is that Obama is a Muslim, if you can believe. The very wealthy Pastor (loosely) Rob Parsley with his mega-church here in Central Ohio has local commercials on during major network news shows indicating what his sermons will be on Sunday’s. They almost always have something to do with the coming Anti-Christ and with some slight reference to the current days in politics. IMO, he is trying to associate Obama with the Anti-Christ which is what is happening in SE Ohio, WV, and KY.

I 'd like to see him accept the nomination, it is a historic event....good for him! I bet the other speeches will be fabulous as well, at least I hope!

Blonde, do you think the political marketing is new???? They have been using marketing for ever in politics. That's all they have they are selling themselves and ideas to the voting public.

"If Sen. Barack Obama moves his acceptance speech from the Pepsi Center to Invesco field, he'll need 76,000 people to fill the seats.

Only 50,000 are expected in town for the convention. Many in Denver will be doing their best to avoid downtown that week. I think they need a concert. Remember the 75,000 crowd in Portland, OR? They had Obama follow a free outdoor concert by the Decembrists which was planned in advance."

from a Denver resident,

here is another take on the fourth of july. It is called The Freedom Song and was written and preformed by a guy who lives in Lubbock, TX. His name is Andy Wilkinson and he is a proud Yellow Dog Democrat. Andy is a playwright also. One of the plays he wrote was a one man play about the last night that Charles Goodnight lived. Barry Corbin played Charles Goodnight. Goodnight was a legendary cowman and one of the first ranchers to move cows from Texas to Kansas City via trial drives. With his partner Oliver Loving , they founded the Goodnight-Loving trail out of Texas. Charles Goodnight's sister was a great grandmother to Andy. Andy is now the Artist-In-Residence at Texas Tech at the Southwest Collection.

http://www.westernfolklife.org/site1/images/stories/site/WFCPodcast_016_FreedomSong.mp3

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

Oh, are you near , is it easton? , anyway, I live near many MCcain supporters as well. They donate quite a bit, I found them on the published lists. Plus they already have stickers on cars.....I also have several Obam supporters....in the hood....I was a lone Hillary supporter before she lost....

UB

Gosh, I am stupid. I must have been asleep at the wheel for the other elections. Really, is the US a corporation or a government?

"And I have to admit to feeling slightly heady and badass knowing that the Iranian government would want to kill me."
Posted by: Patsi Author Profile Page | July 7, 2008 9:41 AMPatsi,
LOL

Chloe -- wish I could take the credit, but the words were Mary's...I just loved her whole post...check out her blog!

Obama’s own voice may haunt him

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0708/11542.html

in my experience, relatives in the political business, it was always about getting the message out, how ever you can...sign, speeches, buttons, bummper stickers...etc...that is all marketing, rallys....then we had to promote the rally , with radio spots and commercials....total marketing.....

Just as you do with a new product.

UB, I am just a few miles north of Wexner's Easton. Quite a place for visitors coming into this area, but The Limited, Victoria Secret, and many of their other stores are also suffering from this terrible economy. They've had many, many layoffs.

UB

Unfortunately, when we are unhappy with our new product, we can't return it or even find an 800 number for customer service to register our complaint(s) about the product. Plus, I hate getting stuck with a product I didn't elect to buy, but still wound-up paying a big price.

"in my experience, relatives in the political business, it was always about getting the message out, how ever you can...sign, speeches, buttons, bummper stickers...etc...that is all marketing, rallys....then we had to promote the rally , with radio spots and commercials....total marketing....."

Ever try to talk with a Christian Fundamentalist?

Karolenna,

It's the same up here, many closed retails shops, and empty commercial real estate. Ohio was the last place to need this recession.

SE Ohio is scary, don't you think.....That's what gave the state to Bush last time. Wasn't it?

Blondie, it makes sense that you would approve my preference in alcohol. LOL

And jamie, LOL as well. I saw a mood ring a few months ago when they had one of the traveling flea markets specializing in junk smaller than a breadbox at the mall here.

Karolenna, I can, with great relief, report that I haven't seen any ads by Rod Parsley or any ads of that ilk here at all yet. I can only hope that holds for a while. Too many folks around here take that stuff in hook, line and sinker.

The public seems to disapprove of the unilateral actions taken by Pres. Bush. 79% want Congressional approval before any bombing takes place

http://www.gallup.com/poll/108658/Public-Wants-Congress-Approve-Military-Action-Bombings.aspx

"It is interesting to me that it was AFTER Obama’s meeting with Bill Clinton via telephone that he came out with some of these centralist ideas."

ROFL -- it's Bill Clinton's fault! I knew it!

I can not imagine......but my Republican Mother who loves FOX is quite impossible....politics are no longer allowed to be discussed at our Weekly Family dinner....we had to keep the peace.

The only reason I give a damn about Obama's center-move is that he's now saying things he tried to hang Hillary for....

Yes Blonde...look at BUSH not only can we not return him, but the damaged he cause will continue for a lifetime...

Hopefully we will not allow his party a third term.

Off to work for me....no matter what, I know George Bush will be out of office very soon.

"Many of Obama's rightward shifts represent breathtaking changes from what he has long stood for, raising troubling questions about his character and becoming a major GOP attack line in the campaign. "

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/DonaldLambro/2008/07/03/obamas_right_turn_leaves_left_in_the_lurch

dog

I agree that HIllary was a less successful marketing campaign.

If you look at the positions of Sen. Obama and Sen Clinton, they are virtually identical ... Tide and All

The public liked the box of Tide better.

It isn't an insult to say that the majority of the public swallows whole the advertising campaign from their favorite media source. Just because we are a bunch of political mavens untangling all the different strands and nuances doesn't mean this applies to the voting public at large.

All they know is that they are sick of Bush, want a change, and Obama seemed to be promising more change than Clinton. Bad sales job on her part, good sales job on his. Same product different boxes.

dog, for all our sake, I hope you're right about what Obama can accomplish on the domestic front. If he does that he will have proven many naysayers (myself included) wrong. As for me, I just hope he can help do something to reign in the economy, get us the hell out of the middle east, and appoint a couple or three justices who believe in the Bill of Rights to the Supreme Court. He does that and he'll get my vote in 2012 as well as this year.

Oh and technically, the public actually split almost evenly on which brand they wanted with 18 million each. The difference: He got the biggest media markets in the right age group that the buyers of commercials want to see

He got the 18 - 35 ratings and she got the 45+

Her program got cancelled and his got the cover of TV Guide.

Pogo,
Wouldn't that be great! I would love to see, our country back on the right track. One man can not do it by himself, but with a team of like-minded individuals, I believe there are plenty of reasons to be optimistic.

I hope Obama wins the White House - the alternative would be a disaster in my opinion.

Meet The Obamacons
They're a group of elite conservatives who have endorsed the presumptive Democratic nominee.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/06/MN3T11JI0P.DTL&tsp=1

With the FISA backtracking, there is only hope that Obama will be better on protecting the constitution.

Ally,
if you are around, I got my poster the other day - it's really pretty nice...I am thinking of framing it for my new office as inspiration. I wish I could get her to sign it.....but it is so big and bulky to take to a rally.

Thanks again for that link.

KC, you are exactly right about the FISA issue. I can only hope that if Obama wins- and given the alternative, I hope he does - he'll replace Stephens and Ginsberg with a couple of justices who will believe that the FISA BS is just that and keep him from doing what Dumya has done. I know McSame won't.

UB, we certainly agree on the effect of McNN winning. It would be even worse than it's been with Bush, and the hangover would last decades.

Patsi,

You like to twist things around, don’t you? Notice that I said "interesting" and I was simply implying that Obama may have taken some advice from Bill Clinton. Why are you still so angry? It is good to stand up for feminist causes, but I've learned throughout my life that what happens is probably meant to happen. Yes, we can change the future before it happens, but afterward (meaning Hillary Clinton lost the primary) you have to move on. It was close and she did not win. It is your right to vote for McCain or not vote (as my aunt says she won’t), but this nation needs change and McCain will not bring that.

I receive emails from an ex-coworker living in SC. He is a retired research scientist, entrepreneur and very wealthy. He will never be anything but a Republican and he has told me on the telephone that he could never, ever vote for a black. He sends me emails just to incite me, but I try to give him reasonable responses (actually, I think he likes my frankness). The other day I was referencing to him the PNAC (Project for a New American Century) site which seemed to have the Bush administration’s plans all drawn out in details way before he was appointed president. In fact, it was put together at least 10 years before 2000. Most that he has done to date was listed on that site (and before 9/11), and even worse, it said he would go into Iran which on their site listed the axis of evil countries. Bush was a patsy for the PNAC. I tried to find their site and discovered that NOW it has been disbanded. It used to be www.PNAC.org. Doesn’t that seem interesting in light of the Bush administrations policies going so badly? But, Bush was put into office and we see what has happened. Maybe it was meant to be even though it was bad. If you are wealthy, you are probably very happy with his administration results.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century

This, from KC's link, is exactly why I couldn't vote for McOF no matter how bad the Dem nominee was.

"The neoconservatives, whose intellectual leaders include New York Times columnist David Brooks and Weekly Standard publisher Bill Kristol, remain firmly inside the GOP and strongly back McCain, who appeals to their model of "national greatness." So do mainstream conservative think tanks such as the Heritage Foundation, which issues regular attacks against Obama's economic plans, and the traditionalist magazine National Review."

If I knew nothing about a candidate, knowing that the lineup above supported one would tell me that I need to vote for the other.

But now, lunch.

I'm quite aware of the Project for the New American Century, Karo.

Move on? I believe I heard that from the George Bush crowd in 2000.

I think Obama ran a phony campaign. Simple as that. I think we had a chance to have a great president and now we'll get what we get. And I have no doubt that Obama will win the election.

Delay certainly perfected that gerrymandering in Texas.

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

please make that Dirtbag Delay in the post above.

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

Delay certainly perfected that gerrymandering in Texas.

¡yo soy Horsedooty

They must have taught gerrymandering in Republican school because every state seemed to have someone with those skills. To be fair, the Democrats have their share of safe districts. In the Bay area, the John Burton congressional district was a pip.

REdistricting is the best possible reason for electing as many Democrats as possible to the State legislatures. The way those lines are draw can effect the Electoral college in a state for at least a decade.

"Obama's eligibility to be President thus hangs on a thread: the need to prove he has a valid paper Hawaiian birth certificate, signed, sealed and delivered.

It isn't the obligation of a journalist or a blogger or an imaging professional or a DHS-trained self-proclaimed document specialist to disprove that Obama is a natural born citizen. Obama owes it to the American people: he is required by the Constitution to fulfill that condition and to do that every citizen must do from time to time: produce the birth certificate. He prides himself on transparency, so why is he concealing and stonewalling legitimate demands for proof of? If he lacks one, and can't prove he has one, he can't be President. He wrote about having one in his book, Dreams from My Father (Chapter One) and he presumably had to have one to get a passport. So what's the problem? Why the hesitation?"

http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/12959.htm

Oh, Jamie, I think your point is valid if and only if an Obama administration provides good governance and doesn't cause anger and alienation such as occurred during the first couple of the Clinton years.

As it stands, I foresee strong Republican gains during the mid-term with the potential for a redistricting bonanza.

Just consider the number of his initiatives that must be funded at the local and state levels...things in education, healthcare, housing...any of those areas where it is easy for the feds to mandate but difficult for the locals to fund.

Anger is what Republicans feed on.

Re-districting is supposed to reflect the census which is conducted every 10 years. Dirtbag Delay got it done twice in Texas in 10 years if memory serves.

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

GORDO......

I can't believe anyone has to straighten you out....but here goes.

The US Government has already vetted Barack Obama and all the rest when they made their first announcement to seek the Presidencey. Its part of the announcement to get looked into from Birth and tax records check to criminal background check.

You should just find something else whacky. But then you could be running out of source material right?

All of the Hispanic voters I know, including relatives, have left the Catholic church and joined non-denom (uber-fundy) churches in various states and are pro-McCain. (Although, considering the abortion issue, I think they would've been pro-McCain anyway.)

Sheila, please, do you have a source for your comment on vetting?

Redistricting in California: Control or Democracy?
Steve Chessin
Member
California Democratic Party Executive Board
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/editorial/outlook/5872515.html

The comments are interesting. Chessin takes the view redistricting should not result in safe seats, but others say the duty of the political party is to win the most elections.

correct link
http://www.californiaprogressreport.com/2008/06/redistricting_i.html

gee.... I post I even like the libertarian perspective being brought up in here and get labeled as having tunnel vision..... oh well.....

BlondeW.... we did not turn the television on in our house this past weekend....not even for a Red Sox/Yankees game..... didn't realize the media was paying homage to watermelons.....

Pogo.... I stopped watching all politics on weekends about a year ago and I truly love the break..... (for those with a differing view.... enjoy!)..... however, because of a high respect for Tom Browkaw, I am entertaining the thought of watching MTP again in September.....

I do think the Hispanic vote will be a factor in November..... I just get a kick out of how many groups think that they will be THE factor .....

Well, my poll of friends & family in Texas, California & New Jersey suggest otherwise. Just bringing up the point that religion (you know, the thing that BO says we "bitter" folks cling to) might weigh into this if there are still any one/wedge-issue voters out there.

2007, Democrats enjoyed a 33 percent advantage over Republicans in partisan allegiance among Hispanic registered voters. (Pew article)

2008, Obama enjoys a 30 percent advantage. (Gallup link)

Kicking ass?

This has no particular political tie other than secrecy and security, but Britains top "Spy" is in a coma, cause unknown at this time.

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-world-europe/20080704/Britain.Intelligence.Official/

"It is interesting to me that it was AFTER Obama’s meeting with Bill Clinton via telephone that he came out with some of these centralist ideas."

ROFL -- it's Bill Clinton's fault! I knew it!

Posted by: Patsi | July 7, 2008 11:25 AM

This was the same reaction I had when I read Karolenna's post Patsi... And I have to say you are spot on for this one as well:

"The only reason I give a damn about Obama's center-move is that he's now saying things he tried to hang Hillary for...."

Posted by: Patsi | July 7, 2008 11:28 AM

Personally I think both Hillary and Barack were/are liberals, but that's just my call.

Hil'ry is definitely the more competent of the two.

Gordo -- here's the real reason you might as well give up on that birth certificate issue -- even if it were found that Obama's was invalid for some reason, I promise you an exception would be made for him.

This is a done deal, and has been for some time.

Hil'ry is definitely the more competent of the two.

Posted by: blueINdallas | July 7, 2008 12:51 PM

Probably, but I do think Barack ran a more competent campaign for nomination... See I like them both. I am still hoping Barack at least offers Hillary the vice-presidential slot. Maybe I am dreaming, but I think it would be awesome regardless of what pundits say that it would tarnish his "new politics" mantra to run with her. Even Barack's media supporters are already questioning the reality of the "new politics" in light of the recent policy changes. Perhaps he is being judged by too high a standard on just what "new politics" means. I don't mind his evolution, except FISA, which worries me. It is human nature to learn and evolve.

If this makes no sense, I am very sleepy and not feeling too well today. :)

bye bye

Group psychology:

If they start swaying & waving the blue screens on their cellphones...ah, way to play to the cult of BO. He does so well in big venues; no thinking required.

BO is like The G'Dead, Phish, The Dave Matthews band...so shouldn't Ben & Jerry's create an ice-cream flavor for him?

http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN0740736820080707

Maybe they can get together for a support group when BO loses in Nov.

OMG!!

MSNBC girl twit Contessa Brewer just actually said "What about couples earning six figures trying to send their kids to school and other stuff?." about the Obama tax plan to reduce taxes on middle class and shift even more of the burden to six figures and up.

Somebody please tell me she was being ironic. Otherwise that level of stupidity about the median income in this country is nauseating.

The current The Economist has a couple of interesting reads. The first is a short profile of Mrs Obama, and the second is a short perspective on British healthcare 60-years after going national:

http://www.economist.com/world/na/displaystory.cfm?story_id=11670246
http://www.economist.com/world/britain/displaystory.cfm?story_id=11670271

Patsi, Arnold is on pins and needles over the handling of the birth certificate.

"Somebody please tell me she was being ironic."

Ha! Jamie -- no such luck. Everytime I hear the talking heads go on about "the common man" I nearly puke. Actually, Craig Crawford is one of the few who ever seems to have a clue about what the American people are about.

Yeah, Patsi, when the Obamas talk about their onerous college loans that they _just_ managed to pay off, I run to fetch my hankie.

Ben and Jerry's are too busy imagining

WHIRLED PEACE

http://www.benjerry.com/imagine/?gclid=CNGj9-WhrpQCFSMYagodrQxWuA

All while Hagen Daz is trying to save the bees (If you think your grocery bills are high now imagine what it will be if the little unpaid workers disappear)

http://helpthehoneybees.com/

EuroTom - BO certainly spent more per vote than Hil'ry.
That, coupled with a media who was in the tank for him and gave him a permanent pass, gave the less-capable BO the edge.

Open flame? I don't think so. Cell phones...I'm sure they will tell everyone to be kind and put them on vibrate, but I can just see it now. Group psychology, yikes.

jamie - Come to think of it, they already make Everything But The Kitchen Sink...and since BO is now all things to all people, I guess that flavor covers it.

Did see our first hummer yesterday--wasn't any larger than my little finger. A mate was nowhere in sight.

Renee, it never ceases to amaze me that there are so many things we agree about. I was thinking that maybe I'd break my weekend politics moratorium and start watching MTP again as well, at least when Tom has guests I care about hearing from. I'm not there yet, but I'm moving in that direction.

Not in a habit of lurking anymore, but good thing I checked.

Background checks by government agencies are not public information Flatus.

So I can't show you the ones given to any official or employee that runs for office or wants employment at the highest levels of govenment.

I can tell you that while I was there, I had a pretty long conversation with the very official that was carrying these checks out as a course of his job, at the time. It was very interesting because I just never thought of it in that realm before.

Most candidates like Obama and Clinton were checked out even before they decided to run. Just an update was needed.

But of course, it makes sense that a Presidential Candidate gets looked at before the press gets ahold of it or another tries to use anything untoward against our country

Ben and Jerry retired my favorite flavor many years ago. To hell with them! LOL!

"In March 2007, the Chicago Tribune featured a story from Mercer Island, Washington that included a videotaped interview of Susan Blake, a high-school friend of Stanley Ann Dunham (known as “Ann”), Barack’s mother. Here’s the short video of Blake, as published by the Tribune ..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1d7PQJdKMGM

http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/06/24/honolulu-seattle-roundtrip-in-61/

Good day, people. I had a long weekend away from the computer.

If B&J does a Barack Obama flavor, it should be mostly marshmallow fluff with a thin ribbon of shit woven through it. Oh, & please add a few nuts in honor of his supporters & a few red & blue sprinkles in honor of his new flag pin.

Sheila, I just want to see some provision of law that allows the government to do what you suggest is being done.

We can do them (background investigations) all day long on foreign nationals, but not U.S. citizens, unless it is with their expressed permission.

Was the individual who was talking out of school with you a political appointee?

"can tell you that while I was there, I had a pretty long conversation with the very official that was carrying these checks out as a course of his job, at the time. It was very interesting because I just never thought of it in that realm before.

Most candidates like Obama and Clinton were checked out even before they decided to run. Just an update was needed"

And people thought J Edgar Hoover was dead. Someone may be doing it but not because they are charged with the obligation, it is just the government spying on it citizens.

Corey

You can request a resurrection from the flavor graveyard

http://www.benjerry.com/halloween/flavor_graveyard.cfm

I liked "Bovinity Divinity". Although "Creme Brulee" is good right now. Just wish their ice cream was cheaper.

Henry Miller anticipated the blog world! ROFL!

"We do not talk - we bludgeon one another with facts and theories gleaned from cursory readings of newspapers, magazines and digests." - Henry Miller

Nope FBI and it was during my BGI. You right, but I would have thought you knew that you have to have permission to conduct one or that person doesn't get into the WH or in some compartmented places on the Hill.

Krugman's usual insight into the economy.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/07/opinion/07krugman.html?hp

BTW, anyone have a clue about what the hell happened to the Dow today? It was up by 150 or so this morning, then I get back from lunch and it's down 100, and down another 20 before I can read Krugman's column.

Flatus and Anonymouse,

didn't you hold a classified clearance when you were in the service? I did and I was a peon.

Same thing as I see it. I am sure Obama and McCain already held Top Secret clearances when they were elected to the Senate. I am sure they gave permission and the govt was not spying on them.

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

I heard a rumor this morning that 8 super delegates are changing their vote from Obama to Hillary. Has anybody else heard this rumor and found out any more details about it?

Jamie,

As long as Coffee, Coffee, Buzz, Buzz, Buzz is available, the other flavors can stay in the grave yard...

BTW, with regards to, http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/07/courting-the-latino-vote.html#comment-111451

The only irony to come out of her mouth would be fat girl jokes considering her issues with Imus. For the record I think she looks fine but needs to dress better.

vadaryl,
you sure do hear a lot of rumors.

Now this debate (Edwards-Rove) would be worth attending.

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/04/john-edwards-to-debate-karl-rove-in-buffalo/

Sorry if it's already been posted.

Pogo

Another big selloff in light of more earnings reports

http://money.cnn.com/2008/07/07/markets/markets_newyork/index.htm

Sheila, was the person who claimed to be FBI doing a polygraph on you? That's about the only circumstance that the subject of an investigation is interviewed. Well, not that exactly accurate, a criminal case may be opened if efforts at deception are clearly indicated. In that case, the interviewee will be in a less than cheerful atmosphere.

Everything else is an investigation/verification of the SFs the subject prepared and provided to the clearance authority. References, both provided by the subject, and developed during the investigation, are conducted. But not with the subject.

Clarification or amplification of data the subject provided may be requested, but that will almost always be done in writing so that a record trail of the subject's claims can be developed.

Pogo,

The only reason the market seemed to jump this morning is because of the renewed interest in the Microsoft/Yahoo talks. Icahn announced that if he can replace the board, MS would be interested in resuming takeover talks.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/25563076

This link showing that retail property had it's worst quarter in 30 years shows that the retail sector is in a hard contraction period that couldn't be staved off, even with all of the stimulus checks. That basically means you can expect a significant jump in unemployment as we head into the heart of the election season.

This is significant because many of the jobs that the Bush administration "created" were in the retail/service sector. For you "My Cousin Vinny" fans, it's further proof that the brick wall W built was with paper thin bricks.

McCain pledges to balance the budget. From the "What the hell did he say?" department.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/07/07/mccain-reverts-to-balanced-budget-pledge/index.html?hp

And from the John McCain is not only crazy, he's delusional category - he'll restructure Social Security and use the savings from the war in Iraq to do it. (Has anyone mentioned to him that the funding for the War in Iraq is off budget funding?)

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0708/11553.html

Doots, they'll do it after they're elected but prior to their swearing in. The investigation most receive will be a BI or background investigation. The level of clearance they receive will be based on their committee assignments.

And, yes indeedy, they fuss over the same forms and statements that everyone else fusses and sweats over.

Bear & jamie, thanks. I wondered why the market was reacting positively this morning to a potential prospective friendly takeover that has more strings atrtached than a cargo parachute. So this is all - or mostly - nervousness on the part of investors about what's likely to be coming down the pike later this week and a continuing hangover from the housing numbers released last week. Not a good sign for the rest of the week.

Pogo,

Here's another link for you with news.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/25569888

I would put Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae on your watch list because as the real estate market continues to slide into it's bottom, some parts of the country will experience a turn around later this year.

While that will be fuel by the surge in FHA loans, I think that the market's move away from them will force Fannie and Freddie to open things up so they can compete again.

My BGI went on for almost a year and had both. There are compartmentals that have their own requirements. nothing is ever cut and paste with clearances and GBI's.

Sorry I couldn't help you more FLATUS and GORDO, but the fake birth cirtificate would have been validated a long time ago if it really was. Obama would have never run in the first place with the certainty of anything bogus being found out.

VAD, if that was true, you might find it on the HuffPo Politics page. Wait, what was I thinking? Never mind. Try CNN.

so, every Senator does not hold the exact same security clearance? That is possible but seems very inefficient.

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

Super Delegates must be getting a little nervous as they descover the obvious.

At this point they are responsible for taking the nomination from the popular vote winner and giving it to an unprincipled flip-flopper.

The next weeks should beinteresting!

I've been wearing my Hillary button following the recent Obama flip-flops..Very positive reaction from people...

Vadaryl, I like that rumor myself. What's wrong with people having a little hope?

I just posted the rumor to see if anybody else heard about it and may know more than I do. It's been out there all day long. The media is being contacted to see if there is any truth to it.

Doots, most people simply don't need access to highly classified information. But, they do need to be investigated before they have access to classified information at any level.

So, you investigate then grant access. If the requirement for a different level of access occurs, either higher of lower, than the level of authorized access is changed.

Some degrees of access require additional levels of investigation as Sheila correctly points out. Access to the president, her aircraft, or her food are clear examples.

Other special access programs also require more stringent investigations along with periodic updates. The existence of any particular program is in itself classified.

you know Daryl I heard that Obama had on a blue sock and an black sock. Have you heard that? The media is being contacted about that also.

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

At least it wasn't a blue sock and a red sock! LOL!

"What hospital was Obama born in, and why won’t he clarify this information? I have seen references to two: Kapioloni Medical Center and Queens Medical Center. Why not release the records?

Why would Ann Dunham, at age 18, travel from Honolulu to Mercer Island (outside of Seattle) with a newborn infant for a “brief” visit?

A high-school acquaintance of Stanley Ann Dunham told me that Stanley Ann and baby Barry came through town alone in August 1961 ...

Is it possible that Dunham actually delivered Barry someplace close to Mercer Island — either in the US or Canada — and she popped in to visit Ms. Blake on her way back to Hawaii?"

http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/06/24/honolulu-seattle-roundtrip-in-61/

http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/07/02/birth-certificate-questions-a-review/

Whow, this blog has changed. Craig what's happening to your blog?

I asked about that but was assured it was a black sock and not a red one. LOL

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

Corey, is blue/red colorblindness common?

Pogo , Just a Democrat/Republican thing. LOL!

VADaryl,

You honestly think that the super delegates would nominate Hillary Clinton when the "supposedly superior candidate" couldn't beat a flip flopping, traitorous, black separatist, muslim, elitist neophyte?

You honestly think Hillary could run all the way until November when you consider she thought that the primary season would be over February 5?

Hillary is like this year's Yankee's team. She looks good on paper but when it comes time to play the game, she appears to think that what she did in the past should be enough to win her the game.

Obama is like the Rays. They win a lot because they have more talent that people give them credit for and they have a greater desire to win than any of their opponents.

Lastly, yes he was pandering to Iowa and New Hampshire but to think HRC would have "the most popular votes" were Obama on the Michigan ballot is laughable at best. I rank that though with that of Ronald Reagan who said you could balance the budget while cutting taxes 30% and raising defense spending by 20%

I am back... just wanted to say the European Union passed a new regulation that all BIC and other lighters had to be child-guard construction. Now the older customers are complaining that they can't get them to work. I have so many of the old ones, but I am not allowed to sell them, so if someone buys a carton of cigarettes I give them an old one for free.

Ironic... I hate smoking but I sell all these cigarettes. Not only that, but I have a photographic memory of which cigarette each regular customer smokes.

This post was just useless trivia, but I saw the comment about waving the Bics.

back to our regularly scheduled programming

:-)

P.S. I am not sick, just extremely tired. Will go back to sleep again soon
Cheers

Doots actually I heard that the repugs have his real birth certificate but are holding it till after he's sworn in so they can impeach him.

it is right next to the "Whitey" tape ya reckon?

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

What a giggle at all of you. ;p)

Seems to me, he might be trying to do his own phony setup like Mr Bush did with the performance reports and training records. Get people to jump in with both feet, then cut them off at the knees.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/07/courting-the-latino-vote.html#comment-111499

GORDO,

I just watched a program yesterday about women who didn't realize they were pregnant and then boom...they gave birth.

Maybe she traveled because she thought she was constipated and thought the Pacific Northwest, with their fresh fish and clean air, would get her regular again.

Maybe she knew that if she wanted her son to be disqualified to run for president that she needed to head to the Pac NW since that would be a favorable entry for Al Qaeda to come into the US and she had the foresight to realize that the radical Israeli press would be the first to figure out that part of her trip and expose he son, Barack Hussein Obama, as the true master mind behind the USS Cole attack and the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

EuroTom,

If you have a pipeline to Canadian toilets, you could corner the black market on 2 different continents.

You ever wonder why the people who can work the cheap, child proof lighters don't just spend the $10 on a cheap zippo? It's not like it won't pay for itself quickly enough...

Bear, you do not honestly know what I think. I asked a simple question, 8 Super's will not swing the nomination either way, I was asking a question that is all. By the Rays have won nothing the Yanks have 24 World Series and 32 AL Pennets.

The Yankees have won 26 times VADaryl, not 24.

I wasn't telling you what you thing but asking you a question...hence the "?" at the end of my statement. It may have seem presumptive but it was no more so than what was being inferred by the post that I was referencing...

Of course as I reread it, I see that is was from the OR Democrat and not you...my apologies...

Housing here is horrible, two neighbors are in foreclosure. The house next to me is for sale ( they own two homes) no movement in sight except for the smaller starter homes, they seem to sell when they get low enough.

Pogo,

Since you're a lawyer,

How can the RNC do this...
http://politicalwire.com/archives/2008/07/07/gop_hopes_to_use_obamas_words_and_voice_against_him.html

Bear, one the surface it's pretty simple - he put his words into the public sector to make a buck. It's done all the time, and is an accepted part of the political landscape. The only difference here is that the words are spoken rather than written. They are taking a little bit of his words for use in criticizing him for a perceived change in position, and are directly attributing them to him as the source. It falls somewhere in the Fair Use Doctrine - First Amendment spectrum. They aren't trying to act as if his words are theirs, and are't trying to profit from them (at least not through sales of them), so it's pretty much fair game - and they could actually argue that putting his words from '95 or so out there again will likely help rather than damage sales of his book. More interesting is the position it puts him in to try and block their use. He could do much more damage politically by trying to prevent their use than he would by explaining either why his position has changed or why it hasn't despite appearances to the contrary.

Bear, ON the surface.

Note to self - must preview BEFORE posting.

Is There Legitimate Doubt About Obama's Eligibility to be President?

"...whether the Hawaii birth certificate proffered by Obama's campaign is a forgery ...

... there are new developments, and the Obama campaign appears to be stonewalling.

This story about Obama's eligibility puzzles me because (a) it is so basic, (b) it should be so easy to prove the relevant facts of his birth, (c) the Obama campaign's response to the story is bizarre, and (d) it seems to be getting worse rather than resolved."

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NDc5ZDkwMjhmZDFkMGE0ODVmNmQ4NzE0M2NjMDNjNzU=

Why would Ann Dunham, at age 18, travel from Honolulu to Mercer Island (outside of Seattle) with a newborn infant for a “brief” visit?

Posted by: YOU KNOW WHO

Oh give it a fricken rest. She could have gone to Mercer Island for ANY reason, and I doubt she'd want to leave her newborn at home... This is total absurdity. Aren't you ashamed of always posting this SHIT???

This story about Obama's eligibility puzzles me because (a) it is so basic, (b) it should be so easy to prove the relevant facts of his birth, (c) the Obama campaign's response to the story is bizarre, and (d) it seems to be getting worse rather than resolved."

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NDc5ZDkwMjhmZDFkMGE0ODVmNmQ4NzE0M2NjMDNjNzU=

Posted by: GORDO | July 7, 2008 3:22 PM

If I had a bunch of conspiracy theorists asking roadblock questions, I'd stone wall after the upteenth attempt to answer a question.

Now here's a thought GORDO. Its a Republican Administration...you think they or someone within the govenment couldn't have double checked for you? they want to win don't they?

The answer is a resounding YES. Some one has checked and found nothing.

MOOT.

I hit "SEND" too quickly.. MERCER ISLAND is a nice bedrock community in the Seattle region. If I could have afforded it, I would have loved to live there. so pfffftttt !!!

Mercer island,

Yes a satilite communty and not even a downtown. just homes.

And BTW, Graham Kerr the Galloping Gourmet lives there.

Is Graham still alive? I read somewhere that he became a serious alcoholic? I remember watching his show when I was a little kid...

Anyway, of all the posts I have read by conspiracy theorists, asking why a mother would take her baby and go visit a suburb region seattle takes the cake.

Here is it GORDO: She was part of a secret network that communicated by super decoder rings. They knew that Barack would be the chosen one for President of the First Order, and so they put together a network to make sure that Dumbledore, McGonagall, and other Hogwarts members would protect baby Obama from the evil "he who cannot be named" that was in control of Hawaii. They had to work fast because HWCNBN was working to indoctrinate baby Barack into the dark side of the political force. Everyone thought Hogwarts was at the English countryside, but actually it's Mercer Island. Amazing what you learn from the articles that are cut and pasted here.. Sabers from the FORCE anyone?

Look, folks, the Obama birth certificate issue is just a distraction that from what I can tell, is not interesting to anyone outside the political junkie world. It looks like Kos and CQP's politifacts are the broadest sources for the issue, and they ain't that broad. Although even a blind pig can occasionally find a truffle,the fact that one of the originators of the issue was a website whose purpose is to stop the ACLU tells me more than I need to know about how this whole thing got started. And the HI office that issues the things confirmed to politifact that the politifact's copy was accurate and that a copy had been requested in June, 2008. If there was any fire with this smoke, we all know that at a minimum that Time, Newsweek and the WSJ would be on it like a bird on a June bug. Repeating the rumor that the copy is a forgery ad nauseum son't make it a bit more credible than it is at this point.

I still say it's He who Cannot Be Named :-)

And is it really surprising that a new mother of 18 would go back to her childhood home, if nothing more than to show her new baby off to her friends? How else would she get a baby shower thrown?

Graham Kerr quit drinking many many years ago. He changed his cooking habits because his wife got very sick from heart desease and wrote some very good healthy heart cookbooks.

He is very much alive and still a board member of the CIA.

A short remark about the 4th blog—what a great read. A longer remark I have no favorite founder; their interests were diverse and their genius was in their ability to work together for a common cause—getting out from under the thumb of the King.
Back on topic, I think Latino/Hispanic voters are interested in a variety of issues. I think they break down similarly with all other voters on the economic issues as far as average salary goes. In other words ~if they earn over 6 figures they watch Morning Joe faithfully in hopes of seeing their favorite commentator Jack Welch~. They keep up on issues relating to their country of origin which may be Cuba, Mexico, Guatemala, Argentina, Spain or a slew of other places with vastly different concerns. Right now Mexico is in a drug war and thus the high murder rate in Juarez. Drug policy here is important to them. The Cubans are always interested in how a candidate will affect relations with the island. Immigration and naturalization is the prominent issue. If it isn’t obvious yet, these are all ‘hot button issues’. Should we be planning to normalize relations with Cuba; should we legalize marijuana and or do something about our deug use? After the wall the next step on illegal immigration is a temporary worker program—how should that be administered?
Most people of Spanish descent realize that the candidates will not address these issues in other than code. The broadest appeal, as Abu Gonzalez notes, is in offering opportunity in education programs, jobs and job advancement. We should all be aware that the other issues don’t go away and will have to be addressed with diplomacy by the next president. Along with health care eating 15% of GDP, the deficit, Iraq and the power of the oil interests, energy use and generation, CO2 and global warming as well as a host of other environmental degradation issues.
Let me return to the beginning and suggest that we have to approach this with a sense of common cause. What shall be our focus? I think if it were in overturning the Santa Clara decision of 1886 and taking on the illegitimacy of corporate identity we would be doing well. I know this sounds like I am for Nader but if Nader knows anything it is that any real change comes from the people. The most we should look for in a candidate is that they don’t shut us out as I believe GWB did.
BTW great story on Vic’s dogs—I never knew one that didn’t respond well to love.
Janis:
http://www.lastfm.fr/music/Janis+Joplin/+videos/+1-lKNq-A-OqNs

Awwww... Pogo, c'mon, my explanation is more fun... I mean these yahoos are acting like Obama is the new Manchurian Candidate, why say that Ann would go to her home town of Mercer Island? :)

Chef Sheila, I thought CIA operatives were not allowed to be identified ;-)

Pogo maybe it did not rain in Hawaii as much as it does in the Seattle area and she missed it? I agree non-starter.

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

http://www.strategictelemetry.com/graphics/Strategic%20Telemetry%20Hispanic%20Vote%20Study.pdf

It is interesting to look at these numbers projected after the 2004 election on the impact of hispanic voters.
Essentially the authors premise is the natural grow in the hispanic vote could guarantee Democratic victories through 2020.

So far his numbers look on target.

Kerr just kind of "Scholshes" around the subject.... ;0)

GORDO,

I think she made the trip to Mercer Island because she heard their Madrasas were excellent, especially adept at teaching 2 years how to make suicide shoe bombs...

I doubt that any questions about BO's mom going back to the paradise of the Seattle area from the hell on earth that was Honolulu in 1961 make any sense at all. I still say the best explanation is to have her friends throw a baby shower so she could get a supply of diapers and baby powder. BTW, they were flying DC*s and 707s by 1961 - cruising speeds were around 550 mph.

Gordo is the most popular poster. Everyone responds to him (with the the same tired quips.)

If you think he is so ridiculous why bother?

Is it easier to raise faux outrage than answer real questions.

Is it easier to raise faux outrage than answer real questions.
Posted by: anonymous | July 7, 2008 4:06 PM

Sorry but I find the credibility of someone named "anonymous" to be suspect. How about coming out of the closet and identifying yourself? Then we can have a friendly chat...

Actually strike my last post. I don't want a nickname discussion ... :)

I am off to bed... may the force be with you...

I'm not interested in a conversation with someone who spends their time responding to Gordo.

"anonymous" taking about a blog in terms of "popularity"

that would really be funny if it weren't so pathetic

Craig wrote, "not taking sides. can't even tell what the sides are half the time." SO true, so true.

Dex, THANKS for the video. Yepper there is A LOT of BS to shovel around here lately.

tt

It is pathetic other posters feels a need to call Gordo names and then spend hours responding to the same tired charges.

Hey now, do you really think making fun of someone's name is necesary?

And....we aren't responding to GORDO persay. However after a while, one must revisit the ridiculous so that reality can take hold again.

Oh Nonny

We aren't responding, just banging on his tin hat in time to the music.

lol...thanks Real Moral Character....you are at again....
looking up my own posts, hiding under your fake names.....and being a jerk....

I love that quote!

Hey Burrito,

Thats a great quote! Glad you have become a part of the evolution. ;0)

Real Moral Character-

Do you sit around waiting for the chance to pounce on me...???

Does it give you some perverted pleasure to behave in a negative and disruptive manner.

You are only hurting this blog.

Real Moral Character - as you know you are identifiable through your IP address.....how many times have you visited my blog?

Care to answer that one?

"Moral cowardice that keeps us from speaking our minds is as dangerous to this country as irresponsible talk. The right way is not always the popular and easy way. Standing for right when it is unpopular is a true test of moral character."
~ Margaret Chase Smith

I love this quote

Barack Obama 2008
(from a former Hillary Supporter)

: )

no problemo....LOL...

UB

I love you dog and cat. How about some pictures of the children.

No wonder Obama supporters are not concerned about his shift in policy on FISA, they have no concern for personal privacy.

It is ok for the government to institute backgound checks at will and evesdropping without warrents is ok too. It looks like terror is still the driving political force.

I'd say anonymous is freaking a bit over the IP revelation.

I agree Sheila...

Cyber stalkers always panic when they realize that no matter what they do, they leave a trail of bread crumbs to their door step...

"I am a slow walker, but I never walk back." -Abraham Lincoln

I'd say anonymous is freaking a bit over the IP revelation.

Hardly a revelation. Just adding up the instances where personal privacy goes out the window The list gets bigger everyday.

Craig Crawford doesn't believe that watermelon is an aphrodisiac.
6 hours ago

Craig,

If watermelon didn't have a such a positive impact, then how do you explain the confluence of 2 of the bigger black stereotypes? lol

LOL Only you wold think of that Bear! LOL

Wow a visit to Bry Bry's blog and he could end up on your doorstep.

Good afternoon and greetings from Southern California.
I wish I had some real insight concerning the Latino vote, but I do not. Other than that Mexican-Americans do not appear to vote in a large enoough percentage to be as impactful as they might. Here in SD County, the Congressional District with the most Latino voters continues to send Rep Bob Filner to Congress and his primary challenger of two years ago, an up and coming young Latino with several terms on the City Council and several terms in the State Assembly, did quite poorly in his challenge, even though Filner at the time was fighting off charges of nepotism in his campaign.
The Latino vote has been useful to the Sanchez sisters, but not as overwhelming a factor as one might think

"Cyber stalkers always panic when they realize that no matter what they do, they leave a trail of bread crumbs to their door step..."

Hmm....should make stalkers think twice....

actually, while I''d like to take credit, I think Bear called that one, dog. I just noticed the market slde and asked the question.

Gotta scoot.

There's a cute grandbaby picture with the Doodlebops here:

http://practicallyperfectpatsi.wordpress.com/

My daughter made Maria and her posse "Dee Dee Doodle" outfits to wear to the Meet & Greet.

Jamie: If you are still around, thanks for the url to Ben & Jerry's. Unfortunately, my favorite ice cream has been gone for so long it's no longer listed at their website.
And, anyway, I've switched to Haagen Daz because I want to save the bees ... although if the bee hive transport trucks keep flipping over on the highway, it will seen be a moot point.

oops---that should read soon be a moot point.

Maggiesd,

Do you remember the ice cream brand Frusen Glädjé? They were my favorite until they just disappeared one day...

I've got Texas friends who swear that Blue Bell is the best ice cream....

Bear: Now that you mention it, I do remember that ice cream. I seem to recall that it was in competition with Haagen Daz ... may even have been the same family.

Patsi: The little liquor store where I buy my Lotto tickets carries Blue Bell ice creams...I must say they make the absolute best cones...not just huge, but their vanilla ice cream has a very old timey flavor ... puts me in mind of what Eskimo Pies and Good Humor and Carnation used to taste like.

Bear: Here is an article about your ice cream ... it seems to have been a conspiracy of some sort.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frusen_Gl%C3%A4dj%C3%A9

I've got Texas friends who swear that Blue Bell is the best ice cream....

and they would be right!

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

Maggie

There is a long pull down list of cancelled flavors on this page

http://www.benjerry.com/our_company/contact_us/forms/resurrect.cfm

YOu might find it there.

Jamie: TY ... it was there. However, it hasn't been in production for more than five years and I somehow doubt it will make its way back.
Anyway, I've found I can manage a pretty good substite with good butter pecan and a jar of nutella.

Jim Webb doesn't want to be Obama's VP and now John Kerry has been floated. I don't see that as a good team. In fact, I had an ewwwwwwwwww! initial reaction. Any other opinions?

Jamie: Who floated John Kerry? Ugh... I mean, I voted for him in 2004 but he may be the the single dullest candidate ever. Why not bring back Michael Dukakis while we're at it?
I really think that Obama has to choose someone within his own general age range ...

Speaking of the election...anyone have thoughts on the acceptance speech given at the outdoor stadium (as JFK did in 1960) and the proposal by the campaign that Obama give a speech at the Brandenburg gate?

Last summer when my son came home for a week, he ended up having to get a cooler and dry ice to haul Blue Bell ice cream back to DC for Texans he works with.

Patsi: Your post reminds me of our Chicago relatives ... years and years ago ... they would walk off the plane with two giant salamis balanced on their shoulders... and bags of other goodies not readily available in LA in those days. I can't imagine what the other passengers must have thought!

Last summer when my son came home for a week, he ended up having to get a cooler and dry ice to haul Blue Bell ice cream back to DC for Texans he works with.

understandable and commendable

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

Probably not much interest in Keith Urban and Nicole Kidman, but I think their new baby girl's name is just fantastic: Sunday Rose.

I probably shouldn't tell this but I will. When Keith was just getting started here in town, he was supposed to come to one of our big backyard parties. (my daughter was his A&R person at the record label) So his parents came into town, and he told Tracy he might not come because his dad was "kind of opinionated" and he might have a couple of drinks and shoot his mouth off. So -- and this should come as no surprise -- my daughter said, "Oh, that's perfect. He can sit with my mom."

We got along famously.

We like Breyers fat free.

Now my gripe of the day: The incredible shrinking half-gallon. Started out as 2-quarts, went to 1-3/4 and now it's down to 1-1/2. Their next step will probably be putting everything in milliliters.

Publix makes a decent ice cream, as well. (Their premium with that sugar substitute.)

"Your post reminds me of our Chicago relatives ... years and years ago ... they would walk off the plane with two giant salamis balanced on their shoulders... and bags of other goodies not readily available in LA in those days."

I love that! Back in 1970, I rode a train from Munich to Kassel, with baby in tow. I sat in a car with a huge family from Yugoslavia -- they had food, including a roast pig, in all these suitcases...and one suitcase was filled with homemade Slievovitz (sp?) in Johnnie Walker bottles.

Patsi: Slivovitz ... now that brings back memories as well. Had my first taste at a family party when I was way too young to drink and it put me right off of alcohol entirely until I was well into my 30's ... to the adults in my family (even those who didn't normally drink) it was like a memory of the old days...

"Had my first taste at a family party when I was way too young to drink and it put me right off of alcohol entirely until I was well into my 30's"

I can see why! That's some serious stuff! :)

Patsi: Indeed it is. In fact, I was given some cough medicine by the Navy once -- I think it was turpin hydrate -- and I had an immediate flashback to that slivovitz.

It's his campaign and he can do anything he wants, but I'm finding all the Kennedy/Camelot imaging more than a little tacky.

Carolyn & Teddy passing the torch endorsement
Michelle in the Jackie sleeveless sheath (can a pillbox hat be far behind?)
Stadium acceptance ala LA
Ich bin ein JFK at the gate

Of course everything about advertising, TV, and general media strikes me as too too tacky all the way around. Obama is just one more sample of same.

I like him better when he is just talking, and I'm really warming up to Michelle. If the handlers don't ruin her, she should be great as first lady.

More On The Questions About Obama?s Birth Certificate

"... but with these seemingly legitimate questions swirling about the circumstances of that birth and veracity of government birth documents acknowledged as accurate by the campaign its also hard to imagine why the campaign doesn’t just order a release of a hard copy of the birth certificate from the appropriate state authority and be done with it"

http://www.kxmc.com/getArticle.asp?ArticleId=254401

Flatus

If the cereal boxes get any smaller for the same price they will look like those single serve variety packs.

And a pound of coffee hasn't been a pound in a long, long time.

Jamie: I have to agree with you about the JFK imaging, and I wonder if it's not a mistake in some respects.

Michelle Obama…Blackie “O” according to Vegas Disc Jockey at 10.75 Rock FM
responding to Mrs. Obama's appearance on the View
http://julian1st.wordpress.com/2008/06/19/michelle-obamablackie-o-according-to-vegas-disc-jockey-at-1075-rock-fm/

Keith Urban is a country singer. He's from Australia. Women think he's hot. He's married to Nicole Kidman.

http://www.keithurban.net/site.php

Corey: Wait! Only women think he's hot? Could that really be true?

Do people fight at Back Channel?

"Do YOU COMPREHEND what I'm saying? "

You didn't say anything other than what you typed.

What was your reaction. Do you object to me saying she is beautiful, looks good in her clothes, and if the handlers let her be herself she will be a great first lady?

Nicole really is a most talented actress. Although I am not exactly a fan, I have never really seen her give a poor performance except perhaps in that strange movie she made with Tom Cruise, the name of which I have mercifully forgotten.

Do people fight at Back Channel?

Posted by: Corey Author Profile Page | July 7, 2008 6:38 PM

No, they save it for here.

Do people fight at Back Channel?

Posted by: Corey Author Profile Page | July 7, 2008 6:38 PM

No fighting in the echo chamber and house of self congratulation.

Flatus
Yes Breyers Fat Free Choc.Brownie.Great!! I have'nt tryed the Publix brand ice cream i will give it a go.I think the no sugar ice cream might contain splenda as the sweetner?

I have a serious question that maybe somebody might be able to answer. If a person travels to a foreign country and they become injured and need medical care and they go to a hospital for this medical care, is it possible that they could be forced to stay in that country until they have paid their medical bills? Is that legal? I received a strange e-mail tonight and something similar to the question I asked supposedly happened.

Carrier Says Safety of Obama's Plane Was Not in Question
July 07, 2008 3:59 PM

"The National Transportation Safety Board said Monday that it is investigating what caused Senator Barack Obama’s plane to make an unexpected landing today in St. Louis."

http://blogs.abcnews.com/e_scapes/2008/07/carrier-says-sa.html

I tried to post this e-mail I got on the 4th but couldn't access the site.It was interesting so thought I would post it now

THE 4TH OF JULY

Have you ever wondered what happened to the 56 men who signed the Declaration of Independence?

Five signers were captured by the British as traitors, and tortured before they died.

Twelve had their homes ransacked and burned.

Two lost their sons serving in the Revolutionary Army;

another had two sons captured.

Nine of the 56 fought and died from wounds or hardships of the Revolutionary War.

They signed and they pledged their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor.

What kind of men were they?

Twenty-four were lawyers and jurists.

Eleven were merchants, nine were farmers and large plantation owners; men of means, well educated, but they signed the Declaration of Independence knowing full well that the penalty would be death if they were captured.

Carter Braxton of Virginia, a wealthy planter and trader, saw his ships swept from the seas by the British Navy. He sold his home and properties to pay his debts, and died in rags.

Thomas McKeam was so hounded by the British that he was forced to move his family almost constantly. He served in the Congress without pay, and his family was kept in hiding. His possessions were taken from him, and poverty was his reward.

Vandals or soldiers looted the properties of Dillery, Hall, Clymer, Walton, Gwinnett, Heyward, Ruttledge, and Middleton.

At the battle of Yorktown, Thomas Nelson, Jr., noted that the British General Cornwallis had taken over the Nelson home for his headquarters. He quietly urged General George Washington to open fire. The home was destroyed, and Nelson died bankrupt.

Francis Lewis had his home and properties destroyed. The enemy jailed his wife, and she died within a few months.

John Hart was driven from his wife's bedside as she was dying. Their 13 children fled for their lives. His fields and his gristmill were laid to waste. For more than a year he lived in forests and caves, returning home to find his wife dead and his children vanished.

Some of us take these liberties so much for granted, but we shouldn't.

So, take a few minutes while enjoying your 4th of July holiday and silently thank these patriots. It's not much to ask for the price they paid.

Remember: freedom is never free!

It's time we get the word out that patriotism is NOT a sin, and the Fourth of July has more to it than beer, picnics, and baseball games.

Ruth

Just for our buddy Gordo
The Obama “Forged Birth Certificate” Myth Is Busted
http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/5626

Even the Right wingers are calling you all nut cases btw.
That is just sad Gordo.

Jack

Tony, Yes, of course, it is Splenda. Thanks!

Magee, Now I know what slivovitz tastse like; G.I. Gin!!

Ruth

That email has been around for years. You might want to read the Snopes analysis on which parts are true and which are false

http://www.snopes.com/history/american/pricepaid.asp

A Birth Certificate Could Doom Obama

"When bloggers brought Obama's citizenship into question, the Daily Kos published what purported to be the original State of Hawaii birth certificate. The problem is...the document appears to be a fake, and a poorly executed one at that. Examination of this document indicates it has been modified with Photoshop or other image-editing software, rendering it a forgery.

So why wouldn't the Obama campaign just lay all of this suspicion to rest by producing the real documentation rather than this cheap imitation which doesn't cut muster?"

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/americatalks/blog/2008/06/29/A-Birth-Certificate-Could-Doom-Obama

Good piece Jack. But you know G man is not interested in the truth. imo

"What is truth?"

--Pontius Pilate

jamie......what I was looking for was the recipe for the hot buttered rum in the first couple of chapters of NORTHWEST PASSAGE.......it was made in Langdon Townes' college dorm by Rogers the Ranger......

STurgeone

The recipe you want is down near the bottom of this page. It starts with the recipe for the batter (this can be store bought) and then gives the added items to add and instructions for making and serving

http://www.tradertiki.com/hot-buttered-rum-batter-and-what-it-can-do/

STurgeone

Here is the one direct from the book

http://mostlycajun.com/wordpress/?p=2697

hmmmm......your mission, should you decide to accept it is to find the recipe for boiled coffee in the Ross Thomas book "All the Fools in Town Are On Our Side." As usual, if you are discovered in your endeavor all knowlege of your actions will be disavowed by ......uh......sturgeone........

"Who the hell is Keith Urban?"

Nobody you'd be interested in...

Here's the coffee complete with egg shells

http://books.google.com/books?id=Rcs6Wjh_OZMC&pg=PA71&lpg=PA71&dq=Ross+Thomas+boiled+coffee&source=web&ots=i-jYI2twAH&sig=jGbm0aPTlSAYO2xyakmwOXBSyCs&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result

"Magee, Now I know what slivovitz tastse like; G.I. Gin!!"

Flatus -- when my ex was in the army & we were in Germany (Rothwestin), all his single pals liked to party at our apartment in downtown Kassel. And they ALL loved slivovitz...I never wanted any of them to try and drive back to the base after one of their big nights, so we kept sleeping bags for the three "regulars"...God a'mighty! I should have written that hillbilly song, "I'm Going to Hire a Wino (TO Decorate Our Home)" -- the next mornings I'd have to hold my nose from the smell of those guys sweating off a slivovitz drunk.

But I always got the coffee, scrambled eggs & bacon going anyway. Those were good days.

Jamie
I'm in awe of you for getting past the primary and being able to vote for Sen. Obama.I'm still stuck in no-mans land.Oh well theirs a long time till November.

jamie......youre the champ........Durant's boiled coffee.....my sustenance in nashville.....when the Mr coffee went south and that's the way ya done it......

mucus garcias........

Tony

I'm not there yet, and since I am in the bluest of blue states it really doesn't matter. Washington doesn't allow write in votes so I'm somewhere between green party and just saying, Oh What the ___ and voting for him.

He's not all that bad though I still see him as something of a bait and switch product, but I like his wife and kids. I genuinely beglieved that Sen. Clinton would have brought something very special to the office and what we get now is run of the mill overgroomed politician.

Jamie
Good point blue vs. red state.I of course am in Florida and it will be close!!!Oh but like i said a lot of time till November.

Tony -- as much as I think Obama is a complete phony, I'd have to recommend to you -- as I did to my daughter in another questionable state, Ohio -- to vote for the Democrat. Even a phony is better than the alternative. My vote here in Tennessee won't matter, and I am writing in Hillary. But for me the most important part of that is the fact that I've let the party know how angry I am at the system.

I don't like Obama to the extent that I doubt I'll even watch the convention. And all of the O-team name-calling and ugly posts on this blog will not stop me from questioning every damn thing this guy says and does.

But I despise everything the Republicans stand for. And....this is the most important part....I believe McCain is senile to the point of being crazy.

Going ahead and voting for the Democrat doesn't mean you swallowed the Kool Aid, or as the Obots love to say, "came crawling home because where ya gonna go....snicker snicker..."

To those a-holes, I say screw you. Give O a shot, and let's see....those of us who are not glassy-eyed maroons will hold his feet to the fire.

The best thing about the GE for Hillary supporters, is that there is someone who basically has the same positions as Hillary and a real chance of winning....

What else could you want???

Usually when you lose, you lose everything, this time you still hard the core values in tact! Gotta love it!

Barack Obama 2008!
(from a former Hillary supporter)

**still have**...typo

"What else could you want???"

A fair primary system that didn't include caucuses and states where some votes count more than others?

Patsi ,
Where is you daughter in Ohio? Obama needs her vote here to counter the Religious right.

I agree Patsi, I hated the primary season as well....

She is in Cincinnato, Buritto -- that is why I just said that I advised her to vote for "the democrat."

Oh, by the way, my daughter is her own woman....she would never have voted for a Republican even if I'd been pissed enough to recommend it.

Oh that's cool, I bet Cinci goes for Obama....every vote will help to balance the south east part of Ohio.

McCain, I don't see too many under the age of, say about 45, really interested in him.....They all have parents his age, they know how it goes.

"Usually when you lose, you lose everything, this time you still hard the core values in tact!"

This never was about winning and losing. This was about the process.

He's not 'interchangeable' with Hillary. If you don't like and trust the guy, then you don't care what he SAYS he believes in. If you don't trust him, then you don't believe him. It's simple.

And sometimes a vote needs to be used to send a message. We each own our vote and can use it for whatever reason we wish. I'm certainly not going to use mine to reward a party for bad behavior.

nite.

Empty Suit - on que you are always there...I hope you are being paid well to look at everything I do and try to discredit me....lol

I was for Hillary...GUESS WHAT? she lost!!!!!!

I support Barack Obama 100%.......

Once again- waiting in the shadows;to come out incognito to trash and cause a disruption.....you are only hurting the blog!!!!

Barack Obama 2008!!!! (former Hillary supporter! )

UB:

Frankly, I don't know anyone interested in McCain, regardless of their age...

Hey if you don't want to vote for him Don't

Your vote doesn't count unless you cast it!

Pof U
well said!!!!

no one here even promotes McCain.....

UB:

That's not to say I haven't spoken with people who intend to vote for the Mac, but no one is enthusiastic about it or interested in his candidacy.

No One at all.......nada ....zipppppp ....zero here supports McCain in their posts....wait did I miss someone?????

really....I have not met any McCain supporters except two neighbor (older people) and my Mother 80+ years old.

The Plight of the Obama Crowd

"Obama is a fraud. He lacks experience. He has no relevant qualifications. He has no conviction other than his own political welfare.

Now, you are upset that he is backtracking. News flash: he says what he thinks will please his audience at the moment and then he does whatever he thinks will advance his career the most.

Anyone who supports him now is blind to the dangers that Obama poses to civil liberties and to human progress."

http://www.bythefault.com/2008/07/06/the-plight-of-the-obama-crowd/

"I'm certainly not going to use mine[vote] to reward a party for bad behavior." -Chloe

exactly !!!!!!

Do not vote republican , we finally agree.....

UB

It is really odd. Even the ones who make it a practice to just throw stuff at Sen. Obama never actually say they are FOR McCain. I think Maggie may have said she would vote for him, but even she didn't seemed thrilled by the idea.

Short of some massive scandal, Sen. Obama is going to walk away with this election and probably a landslide level mandate.

Right now I'm more interested in whether or not Congress will arrest Rove and throw him in the Capitol basement jail cell.

" News flash: he says what he thinks will please his audience at the moment and then he does whatever he thinks will advance his career the most."

Gordo -- this is one of the few things you've said that I agree with. I think we have a slimebag for a candidate. BUT, I don't support McCain. So I'm basically screwed.

Hey Craig,

Just joined the thread. You'll have to let me know if you enjoyed the Redux version of Apocalypse Now. Apart from the french plantation sequence, I think the first one suits me a bit better.

At any rate, you got me thinking about Coppola. I think I'll have to go find a copy of The Conversation to watch!

Maxture,

Forgive me, but I don't always read your entire posts.....are you saying you would rather not vote then vote for Obama???

Jamie:

Apparently, it's very difficult to actually enforce contempt charges. Regardless, nothing would make me happier than seeing Karl Rove doing the perp walk in handcuffs. : )

Yep Jamie,
I never feel McCain love here. .... you think they would have sent some over here by now.

lol....must be a full moon

If you crawl "home", saying "screw you" has zero weight"

Max is exactly right.

And burrito, you knew I was talking about the Democratic party.

I thought I quoted your complete sentence. That wasn't your thought.....dang! .....I though you finally got it!

I got my Hillary poster the other day - it's so "retro" now.... but I still like it . : )

Burrito, I will not throw away my vote. Divided government offers the best chance of rationality. I will vote basically Democrat except for Obama. I will vote for McCain, though I am in a Blue State which Obamam will likely carry. I do not want it on my conscience when Obama looses our resolve after Bush lost our reputation. Two wrongs do not a right make. Obama and Pelosi are dangerous and McCain isn't half the phony liar Obama is.

I didn't arrive at this conclusion lightly or as a neocon or a Republicam. I am niether unless you use the new very liberal bar of balance...LOL

Want to Orwell at work. Watch as copywirte is sused to expunge the blog world of much of the CLinton related attacks or responses to Obama. You really think the Left is no less dangerous than the Right?

The idea of LIberty has been forgotten and Independence Day just about the fireworks. No Party was a thought our Founders momentarily had. One Party was the LAST thing they ever had in mind.

But then we have Mr. Democrat to educate us....

"lol....must be a full moon" Posted by: unlikely_burrito | July 7, 2008 9:55 PM
.
....Ad hominems are used by immature and/or unintelligent people because they are unable to counter their opponent using logic and intelligence.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Ad+hominem

But Maxtrue, do you support McCains policies? if you do that 's your choice. I do not think I have heard that from you.

I am trying not to assume anything....I am really curious

Now that typo is too much for me

"Want to see Orwell at work? Watch as copyright is used to expunge the blog world of much of the Clinton related attacks or responses to Obama. You really think the Left is no less dangerous than the Right?"

Orwell called that NewSpeak, get used to it folks....and the media is quite happy to go along, after all Congress will pass their elite Freedom of Press bill....

Thanks Nick.

See you tomorrow.

lol chloe.....my comment was not directed to you , ( about the full moon)....you wouldn't get it.

Sorry you wasted your time on that lame rebuttal

Calm down tonight, everybody : )

I've got to take off. Hopefully I'll be able to pop back in later tonight. If not, see you all tomorrow!

I just love Michelle Obama. She is so smart strong,and independent, self-made and acomplished. I think she 'll add quite a bit to the political scene should the Obama's win the White House.

Something interesting
http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/2008/07/uh-oh-courts-ac.html

"borrowers can cancel their loans en masse when their lenders violate a federal lending disclosure law"

Jack

"What do you get when you cross an insomniac, an agnostic and a dyslexic? Someone who stays up all night wondering if there is a dog." -Groucho Marx

McCian will support Amnesty Compromise and secure the borders. He will not retreat from our relationships and alliances abroad. He will oppose torture and use FISA to advance national security rather than pretend that terrorists are some illiterates living in caves which Pakistan shows they are not. Betancourt wasn't resucued by the police nore did the police protect the Idia embassy in Afghanistan. These militants are tying hard to provoke wars with India, Iraq, and the Middle East. We all know the game and unlike Obama, McCain will not cut defense as China readies new anti-ship ballistic missiles.

McCain will not raise the capital gains tax to 28% and though he will not drill in Anwar, he will advocate and get the support of the people to start extracting the more than 50 billion barrels of oil we have while promoting clean extraction. He supports climate bills and conservation. Democratic record is pathetic.

Do I support everything McCain stands for? Of course not, but we are not talking McCain and a Republican Congress. We are talking PELOSI AND REID. There will lots of pressure on Heathcare and I rather doubt the Republicans will hold up that issue, nor can SS be fixed withour bipartisan agreement.

McCain was never some Right Wing nutjob despite Pats claims. He has often gone against Republicans and voted for Democratic nominees for SCOTUS. He has great appeal to the center and the pow blows and typical attacks have begun by OBOTS already.

So I do not need to vote for McCain because he hold all my liberal views. He holds essentials stands to the security and bipartisan nature of this country. Obama said he would roll over Republicans "Like breaking down the doors of segregation". Screw that. Who the frak does this guy think he is? I watched him lie, play the race card, trash the Clintons, associate with miscreants, falsify his family histroy and record and listen to him have the balls to ask me to vote for him.

I bet Bill and Hillary secretly vote for McCain. And so they should. McCain will nt pass ANY extreme measure and let me remind EVERYONE here. Obama, Clinton, Kerry, Biden, Gore, and many other Democrats said THEY WILL NOT LET IRAN GET NUCLEAR WEAPONS. Did you here that? So this fear mongering game of McCain starting world war three is no more absurd than the Democrats own owrds. In 2004, Obama threaten to use nukes on Iranian nuclear facilities. Democrats wants pay back and plaster THEIR fears on McCain when the greater truth is that Obama IS likely to be our Gorby. And our adversiaries and economic competitors would want nothing better for us.

Does that answer your question Buritto?

Sorry Buritto, I had dinner while I poked your answer. Again, sorry for the typos but I think you can mentally correct for them....wow...some were doozies...

I guess......it was a bit more, pretzel logic, than I was looking for...I guess maybe I should have framed the question differently....but Thank you for the response....seriously .

I just can't , after what the republicans have done to this country , killed my friends brother, and thousand of others ...see how anyone could reward that Republican party with their vote....

IMO the republicans have lost their right to stay in power - and they lost it by their own actions.

it's shocking to me when I see McCain support....shocking.

I make typos all the time.....no problemo

""What do you get when you cross an insomniac, an agnostic and a dyslexic? Someone who stays up all night wondering if there is a dog." -Groucho Marx"

ROFL! Great one, Corey.

patsi, you've hurled enough insults for one day. why not give it a rest.

Max -- you obviously don't remember that MONTHS ago, I posted that someone I know is very close to some of McCain's staff. They said he is on serious mood altering meds and when he goes off of them he gets nuts. I POSTED THAT ferchrissakes.

So to say I am changing positions or anything of the sort is pure BS.

I don't like either candidate. I think they are both phonies and shapeshifters. PLUS -- the Obots have left me very fearful. I have no idea what they might go along with because I believe many of them to be of the Jim Jones fan ilk.

I am writing in my candidate.

Do I want the Republicans to have any power? NO. That was my first bitch against Obama...all that "let's play nice" crap.

I don't want to play nice. I don't want bipartisanship. I want a fighter who will cram these last eight years down somebody's throat. I wanted someone who would start to reverse things like the FISA fiasco and other presidential powers. And Obama won't do that.

I'm sick of the whole thing. Let Obama and Lieberman sing Kumbaya for eight years...as Rhett said, "Frankly Scarlet...."

lol

"Chloe you're a shining example of the self fulfilling prophecy"

Oh did Patsi say this?

Damn learn somnething new every day

Jack

"patsi, you've hurled enough insults for one day. why not give it a rest."

All right, Craig. Consider me signing off.

Re-read the thread.

Patsi
Thanks so much in the earlier post for giving me your thoughts and gut feelings and really puting yourself out there!!! You are the real deal.I understood everything you said with clearity!!Jamie also made the point earlier about blue state vs. red. and its a strong consideration in my voting thats for sure.Thanks to all for sharing its really invaluable and so great to have a place to work this out in the open.

Chloe
I thankyou also the point you brought up about the process is the very reason i'm conflicted.I know that had Florida and Michigan not wen't down the way they did and the DNC had'nt selected but elected Sen. Obama fairly i would be holding my nose and voting for him just like i did Sen.Kerry.Hell i would still be a Democrat!! I feel you get it.I have in my own mind two things going on and thats practicality vs.being pissed off and not wanting to reward the Democratic Party for bad behavior and i know that a vote for Sen.Obama would be doing just that and i know were not alone just take a look at the latest CNN poll regarding Hillary supporters.I just can't see myself as a gay man voting Republican ever.......

folks, i don't mean to single people out or take sides, but i am so fed up with the trash talk. stuff like "you're as dumb as box of rocks." many of those who engage in such stuff also provide some of the most contstructive and thoughtful comments around here. how about a bit of self-editing now and then?

a suggestion: use the Preview button. it's not only helpful for catching a typo, but it might be good for re-thinking an unkind comment

Craig
I agree about the trash talk.Everyone is entitled to an opinion without the name calling.The early morning posts are usually more civil,but This being my busy time of year i usually don't get here til late and the anger is sometimes over the top.

Ruth

Buritto, I will try another tact. Don't worry, this is my sign off for the night...

Clinton put in place regime change when he was President. Republicans and Democrats were united in their desire to remove or declaw Saddam. Many lives could easily have been lost were Saddam to have dumped the sanctions and rebuilt his power. Who would say the nation would be so divided now if we had removed Saddam and avoided the post war stupidity? And how great Lincoln had he lost?

You know rebuilding Saddam is exactly what the Russians and French were prepared to do for wealthy oil contracts. Can you imagine the mess now? While I support the Hillary approach given in her floor speech on the resolution to authorize force, the essential point is whether the US will act or not act. What if Bosnia had cost more lives? Then it was bad and a Democratic curse? Should we wait until people like Saddam have WMD on missile tips or in the hands of terrorists as insurance policies we will not act? Clinton almost bombed NK. And when we act, people often die. I oppose the lack of planning Bush allowed. We lost many unnecessary lives and treasure to be sure, but the idea that lives lost were all the fault of Republicans is wrong in my opinion. We are losing people in Afghanistan and fewer when Musharraf was in power. So if Democrats caused Musharraf to fall from power are Dems to blame for my friend's friend dying in Afghanistan? If drug lords kill my friend who is a border guard, should I blame the Democrats for weak border security? If NYC gets hit when Obama is in office should I simply curse him? The blame game goes only so far and Saddam could have eventually cost the West far greater losses and us too. The problem is that most countries don't give a shit anymore until they are in the hole. EU has so many troops and the Brits, the US and French have to beg for help? Sorry, Obama, it is not the responsibility of the US to shoulder this more than others. And why would no one really help us in Iraq? Because they liked Saddam or even cared about the Iraqis? We know why the French and Russians didn't help.

Saddam was paying people to kill Israelis. Piro the FBI interrogator listened as Saddam told him why he pretended to have a nuclear program. Yesterday we shipped yellow cake out of Iraq. This man told his cabinet how he would use the terror network to his geopolitical advantage. He was a time bomb and blaming the Republicans for all the death as Iraq inches forward without Saddam and WMD is wrong. Most experts agreed it slowed Iran's seeking a bomb which the IEAE says might be less than a year away.

War sucks, but blaming the Republicans for a policy that even Clinton had generals plan for is over the top. Most death in Iraq has been Iraq on Iraq. I am not defending the administration, but to vilify McCain when in 2002, most Democratic leaders backed removing Saddam is looking for a culprit when the culprit is all of us including our allies who were more concerned about making money off sanctions than standing firm on despots with WMD. The longer we waited the more Saddam would have prepared for our coming. And Clinton/Gore made a deal with the Russians that allowed them to give Iran weapons and nuclear technology. So if people die at the hands of Iranians as they do in places, can I blame the Democrats? Obama talks about bombing Pakistan or sending special ops up the Khyber Pass. I know people in Iraq and the went there because they wanted to. One such soldier used to post at Stubborn Facts and helped turn around Iraq.

You want vengeance when it is the country we must consider. Nearly half are conservative. We faced such a payback moment in 1791 and both sides sought compromise. They went beyond the bitterness. I suggest you do the same. It is time for Democrats and Republicans to let go their labels and mindsets, their ideologies and partisanship, We need to think first about this country, our security, our eroding position in the world and the advantages our adversaries seek at this time. Round and round we will go. I will not forgive President Bush or Rumsfeld, but I hardly will vilify Republicans anymore than I consider all Democrats, OBOTS.

I respect the choice of any here to vote for Obama. I just find compromise not justified by the vilification of the Republicans as a whole. Democrats used to quote McCain's blasting of post war policy as a validation of there own thinking. He did try as did Hillary and Biden. The administration was in charge and GOP leaders no longer here stopped many Republicans who questioned the strategy or lack of one. I listen as many here paint Republicans and animals or evil. Is that what Craig thinks? Of course not, though I am not trying in any way to speak for him. I just suspect he does have good friends he respects who ARE Republicans. This has become a hate club. You are just looking for an excuse to vent frustration. Both the Democrats and republicans have their faults. I lean towards the Democrats, but am astonished at their behavior. And I am often disturbed by the other side too.

So you see Buritto, I have even more blame to throw around than you, yet I cannot see a way forward without ditching it and sticking to reason, honesty and less ideology. Divided government would at least reflect at this tough and critical moment a divided country forced to work things out. If you think Obama and a Democratic Congress won't be viewed as a false mandate of sorts, you are mistaken. In the end, a Stable and West leaning Iraq is far better than Saddam. Is it better those that died there, have died in vain?

Well that is my opinion of course, and we all know what many here think of my opinion...LOL

I've put about 40 qts.of strawberries in my freezer and this week I put up the same amount of sour cherries and baked a cherry slab pie and I have to sign off soon so I can rise early and go pick black rasberries in the morning to make jelly.Being hillary is no longer in the race,it makes it easier for me to turn off the tv and be more productive.I sure don't miss msm.And nothing seems to change here either with everyone saying the same old thing.

Ruth

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/07/courting-the-latino-vote.html#comment-111738

thanks, Ruth, i love the passion so many bring to this blog and i am always reluctant to jump in for fear of putting a damper on it. indeed, i hope patsi didn't take offense (but she's tough, can take a lump and dish it right back). sometimes, though, i pop into the thread and see things that make me, as the reality show Bad Girls say, "Pop Off." so don't take me too literally when i do. i just want to keep this as civil a place as humanly possible.

Randi Rhodes said "the media" took nine words out of Obama's last speech and twisted the intent to make it sound like Obama is now saying he is not going to end the war by April of 2010...and that "the media" has said Obama is "running to center". She said both these items are lies, that Obama is NOT running to center and that he has never said he is changing his ideas on ending the Iraq war.
All I know is that Obama is all for Israel and will never do anything that will put the Israelis in danger...is that being a centrist? I'd say that is smack dab in the middle of right wing idealism, and I doubt Obama could ever gain the trust of the Arabs to negotiate peace unless he also warns Israel they better be ready to meet the Palestinians half-way on negotiations , regarding all the complex issues over there.

I always enjoy Patsi's comments and can understand her anger at times,as i too have been attacked here, but I have learned to ignore the more viscious posts and I don't let the nasty crap affect me.I just consider the source and move on.

Time for bed.Will check back tomorrow.

Ruth

Dex,

She's talking about his 16 month stance and his withdrawl carefully statement. He's been there the whole way. nothing has changed.

His Support of Israel is the same too. However, he will take the care of the US over israel. Do not under estimate his words.

Pats, print it, make it news. Prove it, shatter the GE, make the headlines. Get Craig to run with the story...I am sorry I can't take your second hand story the reason I accept McCain is on "mind altering drugs". I know my girlfriend has her mind altered every month. It is a sweeping generalization as mine just was and you did say senile. Senile evokes ageism, whether factual or not.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I have seen some serious mood swings by Obama. Shall I say his drug past has affected his mind? His quitting smoking disturbing his judgment? And how do we compare someone who seems to be a habitual liar or fabricator to one who experiances (if he really does) mood altering drugs? Who is to say McCain is less or more scary than Obama?

So until I learn from facts that McCain is imbalanced from medication, I will stand by my judgment. JFK was on all sorts of stuff and perhaps Bush should have been medicated.

No, I didn't know what you were referencing. In that sense, I apologize. I still cannot take what you say factually anymore than you take what Gordo posts factually. It seems hard to believe such a story would not have leaked out by now.

Perhaps I could have said what I did in a better way, but the gist of your positon were this poker remains. Don't take it personally, I have long considered you an ally of sorts, but crawl you are doing, though from your vantage you see no alternative. As long as I see McCain as sane, I do.

Please, I must sleep. I promise to check in so save the barbs for another night.

Good night and good night Craig, I have seen the comments hurled at me when I am not here, perhaps I have given back some.....

I did catch your point, but I hope you can understand the excluded middle is fuming......fuming.....jokers to the Left of me goes the song........stuck in the middle...

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