Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Lots of bloggy goodness. I like it. The more the better.
I see them like the early pampleteers and a much better response to public access issues.

May have to run back and copy some of the last posts. We were getting into some interesting topics.

Good Morning Craig

Just read the actual Times article by Kinsley

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1821662,00.html

"On the other hand, if they go off in a snit when their candidate loses the nomination, that will suggest that they aren't really in this out of progressive passion--they just find politics an amusing hobby, like racehorses or yachts."

I bet he dosn't make friends with the PUMA(s) with that comment.

Good morning peeps,

Today's thread on the BackChannel Blog:

Bush’s Cell Block, by unlikely burrito

http://clistersbackchannel.wordpress.com/

good that you posted the original article UB!

"I am confident I will get her votes if I'm the nominee," Obama stressed. "It's not clear she would get the votes I got if she were the nominee."

"On the other hand, if they go off in a snit when their candidate loses the nomination, that will suggest that they aren't really in this out of progressive passion--they just find politics an amusing hobby, like racehorses or yachts."

That is funny
Typical idiot progressive, such language may work on the guilt ridden left but the rest of us just laugh and make appropriate finger gestures.

Jack
~~~~~~~off to the yacht, polo any one?~~~~~

"Jamie spoke about old cartoons and the jokes, that by todays standards, would not be appreciated."

Aha...the only thing I remember about Dumbo was that it was scary.

UB

"they just find politics an amusing hobby, like racehorses or yachts."

This is one of the reasons I think the media and blogosphere may be paying way too much attention to the PUMAs. Anyone moving from Clinton to McCain, just doesn't think seriously about politics.

Now the sites strongly touting an Obama/Clinton dream team are more believable. Even more serious, the heavy activists who just feel totally dissed by the Obama campaign. They will vote for him out of party loyalty, but anything more is simply too much to ask if Clinton isn't on the ticket. A lot of them are still considering just staying home, but will probably get over it.

Now the activists may come back some time after the convention and do their thing with the phone banks and polling places but it is a group to watch more closely than those threatening a McCain vote.

The Kinsley article is yet another attempt to talk down to women, as in "snit." Or that politics is an amusing hobby. He's a pig.

So unless you get in line behind Obama, you don't take politics seriously.... Well, hell, some op/ed writer could and probably did say the same thing about Bush, Nixon, and quite a few others.

These fools would NOT be writing condescending crap about the AA community if Hillary was the candidate and blacks were saying they might sit out the election.

Repeat from previous thread:

Patsi

A lot of the old black and white cartoons featured characters in blackface. Then during WWII the Japanese characatures were viscious.

Heckle and Jeckle were often very racist and speedy Gonzales was of course filled with Mexican stereotypes.

Even though it portrayed him as gentle, kind and wise, "Song of the South" still hasn't been released on DVD because of some of the Black stereotypes associated with Uncle Remus and the Joel Chandler Harris stories.

The sad part about that is the all of Harris stories were reworkings of the tales he heard from former slaves and had a direct link back to the African "trickster" myths in the persona of Bre'r Rabbit,. Many of the AA children's books now on the market are all those legends retold for a modern generation.

Dog
In the last thread were you meaning to suggest that some of us who don't support Sen. Obama are seeking revenge for the poor media coverage of Hillary? Maybe i just have'nt had enough tea this morning.Please clarify.......

How did Dumbo fit into that whole scenario. It's been too long since I saw it. Dumbo was racist?

Patsi,

Let me see if I can find a clip. There was one piece with Dumbo in clown make up but I'm not sure if that is what I'm remembering.

Still if you don't ear up when mama elephant sings Baby Mine, your heart is a cold dead rock. : -)

Here we go. It's the black crow characters (See Heckle and Jeckle above). Here they are in "When I See An Elephant Fly"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOcVkofa1AU

And for your morning dose of gushing sentimentality

Baby of Mine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7JvL2ap3Cg

I haven’t had much time to post lately but usually can read the blog when I am at work. I have been dealing with repairing a flooded basement, helping get the State Convention completed, learning a new job at work, and fighting some kind of respiratory ick but wanted to share something that happened this week. This is a little lengthy but some background is needed in order to understand the events.

I went to my county central committee meeting Thursday and something like a PUMA meeting broke out. This committee is made up of the base of the party, the activists who show up and donate time and money to get things done. There are many Obama supporters among the crowd since he is the presumptive nominee and there are people who will do whatever it takes to get Democrats elected.

The Obama campaign sent a representative to tell us they would not be donating to the coordinated campaign. Instead, they will have their own field offices with their own field people. Their reasoning is they don’t want anyone to be able to say they take money from lobbyists so they have to run a separate campaign. Huh? Even if it were true that they don’t take money from lobbyists, how would that preclude them from donating their money to help other candidates get elected? It is a flimsey excuse that doesn't pass the smell test.

One former union state president grilled the Obama rep for 15 minutes and still couldn’t get him to say their doorknockers would be saying anything about down ticket candidates. The only thing he said was they would be allowed to do so if they wanted to. One long-time Obama supporter stood up and said, “I have been an Obama supporter from the get –go but I am my precinct's captain for all Democrats and I will be contacting my neighbors to help all Democrats get elected.” Another long-time activist said, “Why doesn’t Obama take his marbles and go home. We have good candidates here that we need to get elected and we don’t need anyone siphoning off the money and volunteers. So much for party unity.” And there were several other speakers sharing the same sentiment.

I could tell the county party chair (Obama supporter) was not happy with the situation, he was counting on some of the money to take care of the county's responsibilities for the election. Our county party did manage to weasel their way into the field office for the Obama campaign. Our state party is in their own office. They started out with 12 regions and are now down to 5 due to lack of money. What that means is there is only one field organizer per district and that is not nearly enough to manage offices and organize volunteers. Things are getting interesting.

"What that means is there is only one field organizer per district and that is not nearly enough to manage offices and organize volunteers. Things are getting interesting."

They sure are. Amazin', just amazin'....

Zoey

Interesting, I've seen similair arrogance from the dukakis people. with them a kind of "i'm here to help you poor hicks."

Jack

Zoey, Jack, Patsi

You think these people are insufferable now, wait until they're elected.

It's all about the O! That is my new comment whenever someone starts taling about Obama.

I did have some good news though. I helped broker a deal at the State Convention and was appointed as the Hillary rep to a Standing Committee for the National Convention. That will really be interesting. I am such a process person.

Interesting side note on the FISA vote. The California ladies are playing tag team again. You can always tell who is up for election next when a controversial issue comes up. The next one up (in this case Boxer in 2010) will take the liberal position and the one still several years off (Feinstein 2012 - if she runs again) will take the conservative. The tactic preserves both the constituency and the contributions.

So for FISA: Boxer Nay Feinstein Yea

Zooey

How do Iowa office holders who have already donated to the unity compaign feel about this. I've read the same thing is happening in Colorado.

Zoey (it's all about the O ..sorry for the typo in your name)

Craig really needs to set up a fromage bar to go with all this free flowing whine.

interesting report, Zoey. thanks. now that's what i call Trailspotting

Jamie

Both of Feinstein and Boxer have said they won't run again. I believe Senator Feinstein but this is the second time Boxer has said she won't run. Last time she had to because of 9/11 (?)

"I helped broker a deal at the State Convention and was appointed as the Hillary rep to a Standing Committee for the National Convention. "

Cool news.

Brian -- I thought your weekend mission was to stock up on drugs for your nephew. Not throw spitballs in here.

here's a Denver Post story on the same thing Zoey reports also happening in Colorado:

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_9693435

KGC, if she was a real patriot, she'd have resigned to enlist.

I just watched MSNBC's Savannah Guthrie show--I don't watch MSNBC
much after their performance during the Dem primary but today the tone on Guthrie's show was decidedly pro Hillary, a shocker to me.

Guthrie was talking very positively about Hillary Clinton as VP and the latest
L.A. Times report that Barack Obama was definitely not ruling out Hillary for the Vice Presidency.

Guthrie had Pat Buchanan on who was almost bursting with excitement about how great Hillary is and how much she'd bring to the ticket. He said she'd bring in states that Obama would have trouble winning and that Democrats in key states are strong Hillary supporters. Another pundit was on the show, too, and he was also very pro Hillary. He said Hillary had been vetted better than any other Democrat and how she would only strengthen the ticket. Guthrie seemed to agree.

Frankly, I was surprised at the sudden shift of tone about Senator Clinton.

I'm curious as to how enthusiastically Obama supporters, on this blog,
would support Hillary and Obama's choice if he were to pick her as
V.P.

I stocked up on herb yesterday Patsi, my day is free for spit ball tossing, heads up!

KGC,
It has been very quiet. The O's are opening their field offices today and had kept thier plans pretty quiet until now. The office holders will have to be careful what they say so they don't let the general public in on the lack of party unity. We will see what happens as things unfold. I will let you know if I hear anything.

KGC, if she was a real patriot, she'd have resigned to enlist.

Posted by: Flatus | July 12, 2008 12:33 PM

flaming tilda's everywhere~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Isn't there a height requirement? I was at a fundraiser when she was asked what made her decide to run again -and when she said 9/11 changed everything I almost choked on my white wine and brie. (kidding the food was the best thing at the fundraiser)

Craig based on that Denver Post article sounds like Obama is taking the party through a long overdue house cleaning.

P.M.,

I think it's she who should be considering him as VP. In other words, I don't think this thing's over yet.

Pres Clinton is supposed to be live at 1:45 Eastern at the Governor's Conference.

Posted by: zoey | July 12, 2008 12:35 PM

Thanks. I really enjoy reading your posts.
Hope your repairs for your flooded basement go well.
Nothing yuckier.

well we're off to car hunt, the ole '97 Mazda has finally bit the dust. apparently the wheels are about to fall off (if i understood the mechanic correctly)

so it's down to the Mazda3 hatchback or the Subaru Outback -- any advice?

This kind of reminds when someone sells a house and the old owners find out the new owners intend to paint the house a color the old owners don't like.

Zoey -very interesting.

I can see that many Obama supporters are in the still in workplace, have families and other commitments and may not be able to do actually ground work. So if the, people who normally support the Democratic candidates choose not to, then Obama will have to adjust plan in that area.

Good thing the internet has become so powerful and widely watched/read . What an awesome tool to reach voters.

Well Craig since my brother owns a Subaru dealership and he's my biggest client I say go for the Mazda, LOL.

here's what i want -- mostly drawn to its marketing nickname: "The Wild Child" -- just the thing for midlife crisis

http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/displayPage.action?pageParameter=modelsMain&vehicleCode=MS3

well the Subaru is pricier, Brian, so your brother must be raking it in

Craig,

My advice:

Buy a car that gets good gas mileage and won't crumble if someone
rear ends you.

Love how you all latched on to the "yacht owners" Kinsley quip and dismissed the entirety of his article and argument.

It's that kind of thinking that keeps people tuned in to Trail Mix. Reliable.

There has been a lot of very positive Clinton words for the past few days. If they had said half of these nice things during the campaign, she would be the nominee.

Maybe they figure they can say them now when the most she could be is VP or maybe the Obama folks are floating the balloon to see if it flies. So far I haven't heard any real backlash from the Obama voters and most of the Clinton voters (with a few exceptions such as Patsi) are all for it.

Flatus you wrote:

"I think it's she who should be considering him for VP. In other words,
I don't think this thing's over yet."

I'm not sure what you mean? But, it sounds intriguing.

Hondas are very cost effective; well made, last forever, good resale value. Good mileage and performance.

Wish they made a four-seated convertible. (And I know, ragtops don't get great mileage. But a larger convertible would make Hondas perfect in my book.)

Toyota is phasing out its Solara convertible. Don't know why; I see them all over and the owners I know love them.

re:cars:

Subarus are over priced, imo, however Subaru owner's love them

I think Madza is as good as Toyota or Honda, better price point and usually greater engine performance for the money..

I have owned both, I had rotor issues with the Subaru, the Mazda was really nice....sold it to my parents then they gave it to my brother....it had a long life.....until it crashed

opinion only

The Denver Post story hit on one thing I noticed happening here too. It is the duplication of work between the party and the O's. One example of that is the Veteran's organizer for O. He says he will have a counterpart in the State Party that he will have to coordinate with so they don't duplicate efforts. For part of that they will use our computerized voter database on who was contacted and who was not. I have worked the last several cycles to clean up the county database after elections since they become full of garbage with too many hands in them. At some point they become pretty useless and the general public gets angry because they are contacted too many times.

I wonder what Howard Dean thinks about all this since the coordinated campaign was an integral part of his 50 state strategy? Kerry's people called the shots in 2004 with our coordinated campaign and it worked pretty well. It is too bad he wasn't a better candidate.

Maine is a very good fit for Subarus Craig, take a look at his page to compare prices if you want, they ship all over the east coast.

www.patriotsubaru.com

Craig, get something you can convert to natural gas, or in your case, propane. T. Boone P. shouldn't be ignored.

Craig,
Have you looked a the Scion XD?

I don't see the wisdom is passing on the coordinated campaign. One of the biggest measures of a "Mandate" for a President is their coattails. How deep is the bench in the Congress? These are the people that will be working for that coattail mandate.

Craig,
Give the Subaru a good look. I have a 2005 Forester I bought used 2 years ago and is still like brand new. It rides well, doesn't feel like a plastic car, and for a small SUV gets decent gas mileage. I am sure the Outback gets even better gas mileage. You can't beat the all wheeel drive in the rain and snow and the safety aspect was a big seller for me. You can actually ride in the back seats without feeling you are sitting on a wooden chair (a feeling I have had from many of the newer cars).

Good thing California is a safe state for Obama because things are not good with the Democratic Party here. They are under fire for paying 250k in legal fees for Senator Don Perata -legal but yucky.
http://calitics.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=6372

A pretty good blog for gossip and rumors (and occasional facts) from California.

"Good thing the internet has become so powerful and widely watched/read "

Unfortunately, the internet is passive. You have to go to it. It doesn't make phone calls. It doesn't knock on doors. It doesn't attend public events, fairs, and meetings. it doesn't carry signs or stick them in a yard. It doesn't fill out registration forms and it doesn't sit at polling places.

"Buy a car that gets good gas mileage and won't crumble if someone rear ends you. '

And knowing the driver, don't get one with an affinity for trees.

wow thanks for the car talk. off to test drive the mazda. will make no decisions without further consultation.

No it doesn't, but on the other hand, you can order what you want and have it delivered to your door.

A combined effort would be best, hands down. But there's not much you can do if , democrats worker choose sit back and not help because they are pissed.

Maybe, they (PUMA(s) or whatever these voters call themselves, pro-Hillary, anti- Obama) will be the ones that , give the White House to McCain?

Katherine,

I'm in California and I agree with you about how bad things are with Democrats here. My friends are very fragmented in terms of support for Dems. Most are unhappy, doing passive-aggressive things like sending back DNC and Obama
mailings with disgruntled notes.

According to the most recent polling it isn't former Clinton supporters but Independents who provide McCain will a healthy margin.

But I am not surprised the Obama campaign is already setting the ground work to blame Clinton for his loss.

UB the activists will be working for the downticket races. Maybe O can hang onto their coattails and maybe not. I believe there are some of the activists around here at the moment mad enough to knock on doors and make the distinction that they are representing all Democrats except O and these aren't Hillary supporters. They are Dems. You can't blame the PUMAs or Hillary supporters for that. It is of O's own making.

UB

That is why I differentiate between the PUMA McCain voters and the Pro Hillary voters. The first group are the independents who will probably split their vote. The second group are solidly Democratic. They will probably vote that way. The question is, how much more will they do? That part will be Obama's move. It is his followers who said the Clinton folks weren't needed. Apparently, they are still dissing the worker bees. Not a good move.

Hi unlikely_burrito,

You always seem reasonable, enthusiastic and very nice to me. We've
exchanged some friendly posts.

I know how strong your feelings now are about supporting Obama. And I respect your decision to transfer your support from Hillary to Obama.

But, for many reasons, I haven't made that transition and I don't think I will.
I'm not comfortable with any labels like PUMA or any others. I don't call myself
anything except a Democrat who doesn't support Obama. If Obama doesn't
get elected, I certainly don't think I should be blamed. If he loses, I believe, he and the DNC will be more responsible for the loss than anyone else.

Maybe former Hillary supporters not in the mood for Obama should be
referred to as Democrats in Exile. It's time for a trial separation for some of us.

Every one has one vote.....and the right to use it or not....however they see fit.

I am not blaming anyone for anything....I still believe Obama will win, by a landslide....with or without the small percentage that openly dislike him....

I do worry about the a certain type voter, no one wants to address this, and that is the white voter who refuses to vote Obama because of the color of his skin.

I know in my brother's union his says there's a large group that feels that way.

Prof,

I don't know how to describe the democratic non-Obama supporter, because I think most have varied opinions....and they don't fall into one category. I only tried for the sake of conversation...in exile...would not effect the election unless you voted. It is really difficult to express these ideas in this forum...

I just would hate to see the republicans remain in power _ for any reason under the sun.

UB

"the white voter who refuses to vote Obama because of the color of his skin."

I know they exist. I hope that they are a very, very small percentage of the voting public. Most of the Dixiecrats became Republicans ages ago. I can only hope that some of the Democratic labor pockets have been integrated long enough that even if they think in racist images they will be ashamed enough of it that they will still vote Obama.

Jamie, Boxer is consistently on the left while Feinstein is consistently to the right of center. I don't think they play the hop scotch game as to who is up for re-election. Boxer has been vehemently opposed to the war while Feinstein has been for it, ala Joe Lieberman. Both F and L stand tall in the pro-Israel lobby and will do anything to make sure that Israel is protected by the US, including the neo-con goals of "spreading democracy" in the middle-east, even at the cost of American lives and finances. Read the document for the Project for the New American Century goals written by Israel's American zealots.

I can understand what you are saying Prof M. You see I am an Independent, so I do not have strong ties to either political party. None. Never have had any ties to either. I got excited, because I really like Hillary. I thought she was way better than Barack for the position....but It didn't work out...

I see a Barack Obama win as a way to get Hilary and other bright Dems into position of power....more the total picture kind of thinking.

Maybe that's why it was easy for me to switch.

unlikely_burrito,

Again, I need to clarify a point--just because I'm not voting for Obama
doesn't mean I dislike him.

And that certain type of voter you mention has been addressed, often. They are called racists. I believe that group is only a tiny percentage of voters.

Most on this blog and most of my friends who don't support Senator Obama have solid policy differences with him or other substantial reasons they aren't supporting him.

Maybe Obama should have run on a third party ticket
now that would be change.

Obama Tancredo Unity 08

considering the fact that so many of the PUMA crowd are older Americans I don't think you should be so quick to discount racism.

What I learned about Barack Obama from his daughter:

He doesn't like bubble gum, only minty flavored gum.

He shakes hands with her friends which really bothers her because
"kids don't usually shake hands only adults do" and she thinks her dad
should just wave instead.

Her father irritates her because he leaves his big briefcase in the mud
room so that it's in the way and worse, he puts it on top of her shoes!

(I like Obama's daughter)

Afternoon session of Governors meeting now starting on CSPAN

That's fine prof marcia.

In which case, I know you and your friends look forward to remaining mum while those who consistently vote "Brand Republican" have at it again this year.

Kinsley's article brought up the fact that more Republicans have issues with McCain than Dems do with Obama. The difference is that the GOP will turn out their voters to pull the lever, no matter who is on the ticket.

In theory. Realize you have a lot of depressed and disaffected GOP this year. But there's a history and predilection there.

If you prefer some creationist or Halliburton investor to have more of a say in who is president for the next 4 years than you do, please -- be my guest.

Your principles demand no less.

O.k. Prof Marcia, got it.

As far as racism goes--I can only speak for my friends, relatives and those
many Democrats I meet everyday who are decidedly not racist.

By older, what does that mean. I'm 43, is that older? My friends are mostly around my age, college educated, liberal-ish.

Prof Marcia

He also wears old pants. : )

I like his daughter too.

it's not dis-like, it's solid policy differences with him or other substantial reasons they aren't supporting him.

I am really trying to understand, so please do not think I am being disrespectful.

Great children come from good parents....
: )

It's easier to dismiss arguments when you can lump the opposition into neat categories.

Labels work in place of thought. Yawn

ciao....

have a great day!

peace~

"are older Americans I don't think you should be so quick to discount racism. "

Age has nothing to do with that particular negative attitude. There are probably more racists running around with shaved heads and tattoos than there are Boomers that share those opinions.

Racism is a disease you have to catch from your surroundings not your age bracket.

I think you really start to see a major break down about feeling of race around the age of 50, and I think there is also a geographic element to the mix also.

dog's eye view,

As I wrote to unlikely_burrito, you seem like a reasonable, wise person.
I can't disagree with you that Republicans do seem to remain loyal to
their brand. What can I say? Democrats aren't like Republicans I guess.
We don't follow the party line as rigidly as Repubs do.

I suppose I don't see Republicans as the evil you do. Although I certainly
railed against Bush and his henchmen, I don't think all Republicans are
the devil, nor do I think they are all alike--anymore than all Dems are alike. I don't agree with a lot of their policies, but I don't agree with all the Democratic policies now, either.

Jamie to think age is not an issue in regard to attitudes on race is just insane.

"Great children come from good parents"

Yep! Chelsea Clinton is wonderful. : -)

Truthfully, the Obama girls were the ones responsible for the improvement in my view of Michelle. Some of her sharper tongued remarks had turned me off and just seeing the ways those little ones behaved told me she just had that sort of humor, but she was obviously a good mother.

would'nt care if obama was black'' white or pink with purple polka-dots if he was qualified and deserved
to be the democratic nominee. now i'm just sad that
the democrats have pissed away our chance to
have a great president in hillary clinton.

Jamie,

And I think the Clintons were great parents, too, because they successfully kept
Chelsea away from the press her entire life.

I think the Obama's have realized that it's probably better to shelter their girls from anymore press appearances. It's a whole different world now with the media than when the Kennedy's allowed their children to be filmed.

Brian,

No it is not. That may be your experience, but it is not mine. My mother was born in 1918. The guests at our table were literally a miniature United Nations. Race and culture were something to be celebrated not feared. I once wrote about her that "She danced with the Greeks and prayed with the Orientals." We went to black Baptist churches, Jewish Synagogues, Buddhist temples, Chinese celebrations, and Mexican fiestas.

Yes there are pockets of vicious racism. Much more common as reflected in those reflections of society movies and television are areas of cultural identity that may see differences between "them and us" but are not racist in the work place even if their private associations are all one race. (That kind is just as common in all races not just caucasian)

The fastest growing group are those younger folks who just acknowledge the similarities and enjoy the differences, but that is the group where I was raised and have always lived.

Jamie I think your attitude on the subject is self serving. The younger generations are much more relaxed about the entire issue, but think what you like.

Prof Marcia,

"We don't follow the party line as rigidly as Repubs do. "

Not only do we not follow it; we're not sure there is one. : - ) Will Rogers is still right. There is nothing organized about the Democratic party. We don't have a chairperson. We have a cat herder.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdwrYiNJc_E

"Age has nothing to do with that particular negative attitude."

Jamie ,
Does the apply to sexism?
I tend to agreed with Brian on his point.

Brian,

Did you bother reading my last paragraph? I believe the "them and us" is still the largest group, but I don't consider it specifically racist simply because most people accept differences in the workplace and casual relationships. The majority of those 18 million votes Obama got weren't in the 18 - 25 group.

The fastest growing group is the young ones who simply don't see race as things are getting so blended that just trying to figure out who is what is too darn much trouble. There is hardly a family left in the States that either by nature, marriage, or adoption doesn't have some mixture.

But that group has always existed in smaller numbers.as typified by my mother and my family.

Rezdog,

As to Sexism, I think it exists much more prevalently than racism. What's worse, it is more acceptable than racism.

Jamie,
I ask because I think it does in both instances.

Bill Clinton gives one whale of a great speech.

Jamie you're premise is all feeling and no fact, sorry it doesn't wash.

Putting words in my mouth again, prof marcia. I've never said Republicans were evil or that I see them that way. Ever. Read my post again.

I do say that too many of them have supported a failed ideology, and it would be advisable not to allow them to foist it upon us all for another 4 years.

We are running out of time to correct course. About to hit a real tipping point.

Elections matter.

Good morning all -- I'd like to weigh in on this discussion, if I might:

Jamie - you said
Anyone moving from Clinton to McCain, just doesn't think seriously about politics.
I'd like to think I am serious about politics. Of course, I may not be as passionate a Democrat as I like to think I am, because I did vote for Gerald Ford in 1976.

UB and Brian: You both seem to feel that loyal Democrats who won't vote for Obama may be racists. I hope that is not true of me...I did vote for Rev Jackson twice in the primaries, and I was a Tom Bradley voter in 1982. If I have a prejudice about Sen Obama I believe it is more to do with his background and upbringing (no I do not think he is a closet Muslim) and his lack of experience than with his race.

As to the enthusiasm of Democrats in my neck of the woods -- since we have no strong candidates running for Congress and no Senatorial race, and since the Democratic Party hereabouts is not all that strong to begin with, I don't see much campaigning about to happen. The two neighborhood Dem Clubs have pretty much folded their tent, and there are no bumper stickers (of any kind) anywhere -- except some anti-Bush signs in the more affluent areas.

Finally, Boxer has always been to the left of Feinstein on some issues. Since Feinstein is in her 70s and Boxer in the second half of her 60s, I don't think either of them will run again. I suspect that Boxer ran again in order to block Jane Harman, but I don't know that for certain. The good news is that we have a very strong Congressional contingent waiting in the wings.

If racism was a matter of age there never would have been abolitionists in the 1800s, a Harlem Renaissance in the 1930s and 40s or freedom riders in the 1950s or Civil Rights marchers in the 60s and 70s. "You Have to Be Taught" and "Strange Fruit" are not exactly new songs.

We were singing "The Times They are a Changing" 50 years ago and yes we were young then. Do you think all those tie dyed kids went home and became racists? No. They went home and became grandparents and those grandchildren never learned to hate.

"Jamie you're premise is all feeling and no fact, sorry it doesn't wash. "

"Jamie to think age is not an issue in regard to attitudes on race is just insane. "

Link please? I haven't seen any statistics linked to support the above claims.

Jamie you're wrong, but believe whatever you want, make whatever argument you want to, but anyone with a lick of common sense can see there is a generational aspect to race relations.

Nick: get a clue. Lots of people admire and even revere Bill Clinton and supported his presidency twice.

Some of those people declined to support Mrs. Bill Clinton for reasons that do not include a "demented hatred for Bill." Some of them support Barack Obama because they find him intelligent, capable, and eloquent.

Would you agree (maybe you would not) that there was a difference in the leadership ability and wisdom of two individuals named George Bush? GHWB and GWB. They were from the same family, if memory serves.

Would Roger Clinton be an acceptable presidential candidate, since he shares actual genetic background with Bill Clinton? Family and parent, you know.

Anyway, glad to hear Bill Clinton gave a great speech (he's a great man), and look forward to catching the rebroadcast.

Did it go over well with the governors?

Obama Generation: Young voters' more open racial attitudes helped push Obama over the top

http://www.wsbt.com/news/election/2008/19664494.html

Brian,

As far as you are concerned, I am always wrong about everything. Fortunately, you never provide any actual proof of your beliefs so I no longer bother getting insulted by your stupidities.

Jamie,

I don't think (opinion) it's a matter of age, but a function (degree)
of age, as I think sexism is also. There's also, imo, a "geographic element" too for both.

Whats with all this PUMA stuff?I don't support the selected Dem.nominee at this point because of the DNC process.It also drove me to become an Independent.I really don't like Sen.Obama as i didn't like Sen. John Kerry but i held my nose and voted for him because of party.If Sen.Obama doesn't win and i think thats a big if, we can thank the DNC process for pissing off alot of the of their members with their tactics.I know one thing for sure i'm not voting Republican.....

"Stewart, a white Southerner who came of age during the civil rights movement. "I did not think I'd live long enough to see a black candidate who was taken this seriously," he says. "I thought racism was just too deeply ingrained.""

This is from the article Brian posted. My point is that Stewart isn't a racist. He and the generational cohorts are not racist. They had been electing minorities over the years. We just had to wait a generation for the children they raised to see it reflected in the successful candidacy of a multiracial candidate for President

Jamie: you know Brian doesn't think that.

But he's right about the age and racism issue, as a whole and in general. An inlaw's family has some interracial marriages and beautiful children from same, and an older relative is the only one I've heard worrying about the children's future -- "because you know how people think."

Just not an issue to anyone else.

Family lives in Richmond, VA.
===========================

Does anyone remember how age and race broke down in Pennsylvania? Know one issue is that PA and OH have older than average demographics.

dog's - I'd like to remind you here that Pres Clinton and Sen Clinton are married, but not otherwise related. The fact is that, like the Obamas, each partner in the marriage is intelligent, well educated, well spoken, and evidently all four of them are great parents.

It's my observation that there is / was probably as much sexism as racism operating on voters. I noted during the various primaries that, as soon as Edwards left the race, Obama's numbers went up. And yet, as the primaries went forward, the totals for Clinton and Obama often did not add up to 100% ... anywhere from 3-7% of the electorate continued to vote for Edwards. What was at work there? -- racism and sexism? Or just personal preference.

We (particularly in the Democratic Party) have grown so used to thinking of voting blocs that we don't account for voters as individuals. People vote for all sorts of reasons...often they vote emotionally but convince themselves they are really voting on "the issues."

Me? I spent most of my life voting for men I neither liked nor admired because they were Democrats. In the primaries I voted for the first viable woman candidate (and probably the last) in my lifetime. In November, I'll vote for the last viable candidate of my own generation. As an individual, making up my own mind for reasons that have nothing to do with much of anything.

I have always appreciated Bill Clinton because when he talks about a policy topic, always learn insights I hadn't thought of before.

I appreciage Hillary because she really believes in the details of policy to do good for the country.

I stilll support Hillary to be the Democratic nominee this year.

Not angry, Nick, and hello there. Glad you are watching CSpan, and hope it's from a TV outside in the shade. Lovely day here in Virginia.

You can not support Hillary and still like Bill just fine.

The "Bill hatred" is a theme that you and Patsi push frequently, and it's not one size fits all.

Dog, Brian has been absolutely loathsome to me. Just because you may have missed it doesn't mean it didn't happen. At first I was hurt, now I just consider the source.

"Family lives in Richmond, VA."

Well my extended family lives in California, Washington, and New Mexico. About the only ones we've missed are oriental, but I haven't checked to see whom everyone is dating these days. : )

dog's eye,

I have never put words into your mouth, dog. The words you put into your
own mouth are ample without me adding any. Please supply links or references as proof to support your assertion.

Reread my post. I did not say you personally said that Republicans were evil.
I said, "I suppose I don't see Republicans as the evil you do." In this case, "the evil" simply means that you have made it clear in most of your posts that you
regard Republicans with something less than positive feelings. You refer
to Repubs as "some creationist" or "Halliburton"--rather implying Republicans tend to fall into one of these two bleak groups, which of course is not true.

I don't need to be told that elections matter, so do primaries. It's too bad
the DNC didn't realize this during the primary, then, perhaps the Democratic
party wouldn't be so fragmented.

Jamie not true, I only think you're wrong about 45% of the time, and lately you've been saying more things that I'm happy to see you posting, finally! :)

Maggi, my dear, none of this "I'll never see another woman presidential candidate". I hope you live many more and happy years and see plenty more good stuff happen.

And that it's not proven that red beets are the fountain of youth and a cure for cancer, Alzheimers and depression, for your sake only. (I love the things, especially pickled. Need to learn to make a Moroccan salad with them...)

Despite the fact my nephew is a very typical 20 y/o college student (he lives like a pig), I feel compelled to clean my apt. for his visit. Well it's a handy excuse to clean this place up, it needs it.

Polls can be made to say whatever you want them to say. I am looking for actual "real life" (no ploitical context) statistics by a nonpartisan acedemic institution or some equally distinguished body that says certain generations are racists and certain ones are not.

I don't believe racism is generational at all. Notice I said believe. The most racist person I know is a 20 something family member. She was indulged her whole entire life and it has made her a hateful person. If I would have raised her she would have been singing a different tune but I didn't so I stay away from her as much as possible. Does that mean her whole generation is like that? No, I have seen racism in many different generations and among many different races.

Jamie: Aha--I've got you beat on the Asian influence.

Like your family (and many California families) we are everything under the sun, although we are all Democrats. Many of my relatives (as old as I am) have been Obama supporters from the start.
The former Hillary supporters I know (the youngest is my daughter, who is in her 40s) break down along the same lines as most others ... some will vote for Obama, some are still on the fence, many plan to write in Hillary's name ... I am the only one opting to vote for McCain at this point. Could I change my mind? Sure. But it's dependent on a lot of factors -- none of which have to do with either candidates race.

Journey To The Center of the Earth isa really fun movie.

I saw the Julienne Moore movie, Savage Grace, in Portland last night.
It was a real disappointment. I like JM very much but the dark subject matter was difficult to takie.

Racism isn't just in the white race.

Good to hear Nick. And you are quite the better gardener!! Impressed about the arugula growing. (Have never actually eaten any.)

Odd news about the MD family sickened by jimson weed found in the family herb garden. That would be my luck with homegrown foods.

On hearing what a reliable hallucinogen that weed is, could see people trying it out, until learned that it can easily keep you in the intensive care ward. Or kill you, I guess.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/11/AR2008071102070.html

" stocked up on herb yesterday "

I'm sure your young nephew will be well stocked."

"perhaps the Democratic
party wouldn't be so fragmented. "

Not borne out by facts, in most polls about 75% of the party are happy with the nominee compared to McCain's number which is the high 30s. Don't confuse the cadre of hysterics who hang around here and other blogs as being typical of the party.

"I stilll support Hillary to be the Democratic nominee this year."

And I'm still hoping to see lipstick wearing pigs sprout wings and take to the air. Wanna bet I get to see those pigs flying before you see Hillary on the ballot come November?

dog's: Thank you for the kind words, but if I have to eat beets to prolong my life, I'll take an early death, TY. I hope that blueberries and all those leafy greens I love will help me just as much. And pomegranates.

As to the idea that we will have either another viable female candidate or a viable African-American candidate in the near future, I really doubt it. We had an extraordinary confluence of forces in this cycle -- a man whose biracial background and lack of identification with the ordinary urban black community and a woman with a fully-formed national identity. Obama's rhetorical skills, his next-door neighbor status to Iowa, and David Axelrod's shrewdness created an Obama phenomenon that would have been closed to -- say Jesse Jackson Jr -- a door that was closed to Rev Jackson.
As I have said before, and echoing other sentiments here -- it is just sad that these two people met in the same election cycle. And, I have to tell you that part of my resentment (yes, you can call it that) toward Sen Obama is that he didn't wait.

Patsi what is your problem with weed? Just think how much better off this country would be if people smoked more weed and drank less booze!

"This kind of reminds when someone sells a house and the old owners find out the new owners intend to paint the house a color the old owners don't like. "

Probably one of the two or three stupider things I've ever read. Have you been tested?

Betcha Craig bought that Mazda. "The feel of the wheel seals the deal".

prof marcia: thanks. Glad to hear we might be finding more points of agreement!

(Nick, too, for the further explanation.)

dog's: If you have ever had a salad of mixed baby greens you probably have eaten arugula without knowing it.

Do you dream when you smoke? I quit and now I have the most lucid dreams. It's almost like an alternate reality/universe, they are that vivid and real.

Brian: "cadre of hysterics?" Oh wow!

"considering the fact that so many of the PUMA crowd are older Americans I don't think you should be so quick to discount racism. "

Brian...you are one of the dumbest asses on the net. Old people are recist? Sorry, Craig...I calls 'em as I sees 'em. Brian is slow normal at best.

Breaking News! Pasti insults Brian, stay tuned for further developments!

dog -- will you please stop lecturing? If you were a college prof or ANYBODY whose intellect I respected I might put up with it....but stop telling people they are dumb because they aren't marcing in lockstep!

I shouldn't have gone to lunch. There have been so many completely stupid posts to respond to, I can't keep up.

Oh Patsi I can't speak for dog, but I certainly don't think you're dumb for not marching in lock step.

"In theory. Realize you have a lot of depressed and disaffected GOP this year. But there's a history and predilection there.

If you prefer some creationist or Halliburton investor to have more of a say in who is president for the next 4 years than you do, please -- be my guest.

Your principles demand no less."

Sweet Jeezus, dog -- can you be any more full of BS?

" my nephew is a very typical 20 y/o college student "

And you are buying him drugs. Nice.

well, how about this: leaving racism aside (and I suspect it's a factor from personal observation, although hardly the only factor; this country is ready to elect Tiger Woods):

what about respect for hierarchy, which is perhaps more prevalent among the older voters than younger?

Maggi hit on that with the honest resentment of Obama's not waiting his turn -- which didn't work out too well for Al Gore. (GW Bush also sped past John McCain who was in his prime in 2000. Know that someone will say " yes, and Obama is the GWB of 2008." Can see that one coming. There is a universe of difference between GWB and BHO in terms of intellect and analytical ability.)

But the feeling that it was Hillary's turn. Hierarchy there. Stick with the family and brand you know.

Good afternoon, Patsi of Tennessee, insult princess.

How has your day been?

Sebelius just made a point I've been yowling about for ages. You have to pay for the result you want to achieve. Just tossing a pot of money at something almost never solves the problem. She was talking about healthcare and education. The areas that receive the most money: Colleges and specialists. The areas that receive the least money: Well care and infants ages one to three.

What creates the healthiest population? Well Care. What predicts the most successful students: Nurtured infants.

It might be a good idea to flip the priorities.

You're confused dear, I don't do drugs, I smoke weed.

Brian: As hysterical as I may be, I am interested in your belief that racism is a function of age. Seriously.
Is it your thought that people become more racist as they age? Or that each succeeding generation is less racist than their parents and grandparents?
The reason I ask is that I do not see the young adults of the 50s and 60s who worked toward racial equality as having become racist as they aged.
You referred to the results in Ohio and Pennsylvania, pointing out that both states had a higher than normal percentage of older voters. In both states, however, it was the Appalachian-influenced part of the state that voted for Hillary -- in fact, the part of each state that didn't vote for John Kerry, either. And while some of it might have had to do with Sen Obama's race, I think perhaps an equal amount had to do with Sen Obama's sort of college professor intellectual demeanor.

"Good afternoon, Patsi of Tennessee, insult princess.
How has your day been?"

dog you are the one who came on thias blod early and started telling people they were stupid. I will throw that right back at you. Just because you insult in your usual passive aggresive manner makes it no less an insult. Remember, I took abnormal psychology when I was 12 years old.

"each succeeding generation is less racist than their parents and grandparents?"

As society becomes more integrated it's not as jarring to see people of different skin tones in position of power. While I'm sure there are many people of older generations who don't consider themselves to be racist, there just is something a little funny about the idea of a Barack Obama's picture on the money, so to speak, and they of course come up with other excuses to reject his candidacy. Saying things like they don't like his smirk, they find him arrogant, elitist.

dog's--Not exactly hierarchy. Had it been just that, John Edwards might have done better. I think that probably just as many people felt it was time for a woman as felt it was time for an African-American