Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Hit the road Jack!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8Tiz6INF7I

I repeat.

You are a bully. You and your kind are make rules and then bully people into them.

I'm not doing what you want because 90% of the time I'm NOT EVEN HERE.

SO you take and bundle myself, dog, and harbor up into one mold and you are actually bullying all of us in the name of Revenge for something we haven't done.....

So leave me alone.

There are many people here I really like. just stay away from me.

Stick to UTUBE. Its what your really good at.

It is the Vietnam thing. We are very conflicted about it. Warrior status doesn't count for much now a days with most of the population. Sure, it will get you some respect but then you have to deliver. It does seem to mean more for the Democrats because they are always having to counter the weak on national defense problem they have. So they are always looking for warriors to bring along.

Jack

Sheila

I never mentioned your name at all until you decided to start this exchange. I didn't mention dog or harborwoman. You did.
As far Brian is concerned, it is your bed , you have to sleep in it.
But don't expect me to shut up when it comes to Brian. I don't like people who bully as he does. He picks women in here, who he then targets with some of the vilest language used on this blog. He doesn't do it with men, only women.
If you like that behavior (shrug) go for it.

Jack

Good catch, Craig, on the Video TM.

tt

JACK:

THANK YOU, SIR!!

!:^)
viv

I'm still out on who I'd like to see fill his shoes. A tough woman with excellent interviewing experience and skills would be a refreshing take for the next generation of viewers.

Posted by: Rezdog | June 17, 2008 10:58 PM

==================

Megyn Kelly from Fox came to mind .. yeah, I know it's Fox, but I like her style of interview ...

whatcha 'll think out there?

would be different !:^)
viv

NO DEAL: Join The Coalition of Millions

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9vHcZLVLSU

"This new video is devastating, utterly factual, and ultimately deeply moving:"

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/06/17/no-deal-join-the-coalition-of-millions/

Very thought-provoking topic, Mr. Crawford.
Jack Kennedy was a war hero , but it was a lot more than that that catapulted him to 1600 Penna Ave.

I am a Viet-vet, but I am for Obama over McCain.
This country needs a NEW image for the world to look at, not tired old John McCain, who is NOT a maverick; he is McBush.
He supported Bush through thick and thin...he's Bush's third term.
Obama simply needs to offset his lack of military experience by tapping the shoulder of Wesley Kanne Clark, a retired general who I have researched a bit and I like as veep.
Clark knows all about how Bush blundered us into Iraq as bin Laden was given a pass.
There's not a day goes by when I don't grit my teeth when I think about Osama bin Laden running around a free man,with all that blood on his hands.
I believe Clark might convince Obama to prioritize the military deployments differently and actually go after Osama bin Laden. OK...so I am overly focussed on bin Laden...but I WANT HIM DEAD SOON.

No argument here on today's trailmix Craig. And America sure as shit don't want this war hero who's running. And the weird thing is he has made his war experience the foundation of his run for the white house. The John McCain of 2008 is not the John McCain of 2000. Maybe he's trying to keep us focused on his past so we don't take notice of his present.

Alanis Morissette, one of the best musicians in the world, has made a stop here in Holland.....

She had a good performance last week, starting with : "Uninvited"!

:)) !!

It remains to be seen if John McCain will not be Americas choice.
If he was not Americas choice why is BO even lifting a limb. If I knew my victory was certain, I would sit back, relax and enjoy..

Anyone hear about the button being sold at a republican fair: it said: If Obama is president, will we still call it the White House?

Another reason not to vote for JmC.....Another reason to sit it out, or write in HRC

Hmmm another slugfest yesterday here on the trailmix... A Ma Zing that people continue duelling here.....

Anyway,
Team BO scoring high against team JmC with regard to the terrorist plans.
I think team JmC really needs to come more forward and do more research or these GE will end in a landslide for team BO. He still has the momentum... and making use of it.

Michelle And Barack Obama Land Cover Of Us Weekly: Their Love Story

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/17/michelle-and-barack-obama_n_107685.html

ahhhhhhhh, and a great picture of the soon to be first couple. I think Michelle is going to be a great first lady. Don't you all agree?

Dex, don't forget Eisenhower.

tt

Hey, whskyjack,

I'm not taking sides in the spat between you and Sheila but. . .

I want to thank you for defending the Hillary Clinton gals on this blog who
often are subjected to personal attacks by Brian.

Craig, your "War Heroes Not Wanted" video is thought provoking. I would add
that it's not just war heroes that aren't welcome. The postmodern culture
tends to be anti-military, in the sense that it's not that cool to be in the service
in 2008. When I think of history, there were certain decades when NOT to be
in the military was out of fashion. The best and the brightest joined up in the 1940s, at least that's what it seemed like in all the old movies.

By the mid 1960s, it was not at all hip to be in the military. That mindset seemed to continue until Tom Cruise starred in "Top Gun." I remember I taught high school, then, and all my male students wanted to go into the Navy or Air Force to fly fighter planes and become heroes.

Then, by the late 90s and into the 21st century, another era of anti-military sentiment has taken over. Iraq, terrorism and the Bushies probably are at least partly to blame for the cultural shift away from armed heroes dropping bombs on so-called enemies.

Good morning lovely people!

Prof Marcia -- I don't know if we're an anti-military culture/phase, but my judgment might be clouded since I can hear the 50 cal from Quantico from where I type this.

Everything around me is military. Everyone around me is in the military. But more and more I hear military parents saying they don't want their own children to follow them into the military.

Craig, Good trail mix for those left of centric. Lots of statistical facts and corelations available.
Should we stay free from terror here and abroad then people have shot memories and the national defense will become a minor factor - as Oil / energy and economics is leading the way.

Hvae been away - but the BHO Fathers day address is what he will need to do more of.....
Lets not fix what is not broken.

The McClatchy series just gets better
Todays piece is about the pentegon lawyers that twisted the law. There are 5 more names to add to the war criminal list..

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/detainees/story/38886.html

Jack

More evidence of why Obama will not pick Clinton—backlash from his base. Another crowd LOUDLY boos Clinton when mentioned:

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/06/16/an_obama_crowd_in_detroit_come.html

Ally
lol

Not a good sign of party unity. If Obama is going to bring this party together he is going to have to address this issue with his base.
Anybody can take on the opposition, now lets see if he has the political courage to confront his base. It will tell a lot about his ability to move to the center. So far he is still over in his box, a candidate of wingnut left and blacks.

Jack

Craig
Thankyou for that video!! Im so thankful for this forum.Hey everyone I know the fighting and name calling sometimes gets us down,especially the Hillary hating talk for me by some but I just look at the real facts I learn here and that saves the day for me.I wish I was as smart and literate as most of you that post here!!!! So glad to be in your company!!!

Obama, talking to reporters on his plane, said he had known Solis Doyle for years and organized with her brother on the southeast side of Chicago years ago.

"I've known the family for a very long time. I think that she will bring not only a set of skills that we're going to need as we put together our ticket, but she's going to be a terrific adviser and offer insight and judgment that will help us win in November," Obama said.

wapo

Military experience isn't the catapult, it's exhibiting tremendous leadership while doing our country's business.

Here's my take of the candidates who popped-up in my mind:

Truman--came in as VP
Eisenhower--leadership, sound judgment
MacArthur--kook
Kennedy--leadership, courage
Johnson--did his duty
Goldwater--kook
Nixon--served as lawyer--null
Reagan--did voice overs while in uniform--null
Bush--did his duty
Dole--did his duty
Kerrey--swift boated
Clark--not viewed as a leader
McCain-swift boated by his own party

Off to support Columbia's medical establishment!

flatus, you left out junior

"I've known the family for a very long time. I think that she will bring not only a set of skills that we're going to need as we put together our ticket, but she's going to be a terrific adviser and offer insight and judgment that will help us win in November," Obama said.

wapo

Posted by: patd | June 18, 2008 7:30 AM

Why shouldn't she help him win in November? She sure as heck helped him win in Iowa.

Sorry to barge in and dive to the bottom like this, but just want to post a response to something I just saw happening on the previous thread last night. Feel free to skip over it. I do not want to redirect the conversation that may be going on.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/06/battles-loom-in-vp-madness.html#comment-103980

Jack,

Thanks for speaking out last night for the well being of this place.

You didn't deserve to be slammed for doing so.
It is so sad to see people called names for trying to do the right thing and you deserve better.

Seems like many who wants things to be better around here, to promote honest and free speech (the positive kind) is immediately stomped on by the same one or two people in the worst way. And it really is only a couple people doing it, but occasionally sets the tone. EVERYONE else is so great and generous. We like the differences in opinion and that's why we come here. We're just working things out. And if someone loses their temper now and them, so be-it. What's wrong with that. It's much different than the systematic stamping out of others who don't agree with you. In a very unfriendly way.

Jason was right in his post yesterday. It is sad to watch sometimes. And frustrating. Like society, it is so very, very few that cause a problem. Most people are nice, good, kind, giving, sincere and always trying to do the right thing.

But it's so easy to focus on the one that isn't. The evil get way too much attention.

Excellent post, Flatus. I have such conflicted feelings about politics and military....first, so many people in my family have been military, and quite a few were career, including the one that just retired as a Navy captain to take a job in private industry. He knew his (3rd) marriage couldn't stand his taking the promotion to Admiral and going to sea.

I believe Eisenhower about the military industrial complex, yet I also hate it when people immediately start trashing career military people who look to politics.

(Loved your to-the-point assessment of MacArthur!)

"Clinton supporter planning "holy chaos" for Obama camp"
http://startelegram.typepad.com/politex/2008/06/clinton-suppo-1.html

lol
You Clinton people are just too fiesty. Trouble makers.

Jack

my previous post made me think of this commercial.
Perhaps the Obama campaign could use their expertise.

Cat Herders
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SmgLtg1Izw

"Hey everyone I know the fighting and name calling sometimes gets us down,especially the Hillary hating talk for me by some but I just look at the real facts I learn here and that saves the day for me.I wish I was as smart and literate as most of you that post here!!!! So glad to be in your company!!! " Posted by: tonyb39 | June 18, 2008 7:29 AM

Well said Tony. I feel the same way.

Chloe: WRT your 7:55 a post:

very honest question: re your "immediately stomped on by the same one or two people in the worst way. And it really is only a couple people doing it, but occasionally sets the tone."

Who are you referring to?

Names, please. Thank you.

My hero -- Harry Truman -- had a war record that is often just thrown on the pile along with his other formative experiences as a Missouri farmer, failed businessman and Pendergast politico.

But Truman was a truly heroic leader as a mid-thirtyish artillery captain in World War I. He showed courage and calm under fire along with great competence and skill as a field commander. He was front and center during the massive Meuse-Argonne offensive that ended the war. His men -- many of whom credited him with saving their lives on more than one occasion -- loved him deeply, and stayed close to him for the rest of their lives.

Good Morning,

I just came across this as I was web cruising, an article in "U.S. News and World Report" by a seasoned journalist, Bonnie Erbe--

"Obama and the Democrats Owe Hillary Clinton and Her Supporters a Formal Apology for the Campaign's Sexism."

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/erbe/2008/6/9/obama-and-the-democrats-owe-hillary-clinton-and-her-supporters-a-formal-apology-for-the-campaigns-sexism.html

"Why shouldn't she help him win in November? She sure as heck helped him win in Iowa."

Ha -- good point, Ally.

Democracy in Decline

The broad, sneering European-elite response to the plucky Irish vote to oppose the further centralization of governmental power in the European Union and the emerging opinion in China suggest that from Brussels to Shanghai, democracy may be losing its appeal.
http://www.creators.com/opinion/tony-blankley.html

A very interesting take.

I'm really starting to see what my son was talking about re: Russert's death. I was wondering about Meet the Press, and my son said NBC's Washington bureau was a larger issue. And David Gregory spoke about that this morning, saying that everybody -- everybody -- stopped by to get Russert's advice on what they were doing, their "take" on things etc. He did loom large.

Prof Marcia,

Thanks for the link. A good one, and it's about time someone said something.

Apologies don't always mean a lot to me (sometimes they do though!). That said, the last line in the article was my favorite; "This is a 'vote against' election." There's no one for moderates to vote for."

The Republicans did the most damage to the military brand with their "purple heart bandages", electing someone who was awol and trashing the record of someone who did serve.

And David Gregory spoke about that this morning, saying that everybody -- everybody -- stopped by to get Russert's advice on what they were doing, their "take" on things etc. He did loom large. Posted by: Patsi | June 18, 2008 8:38 AM

Patsi,
He will be missed.
What about Chuck Todd. He was supposedly brought in by Russert, and he's such an honest, likable, decent person who is so knowledgeable. I think he may be more like Russert than any of the others. And he is good with people. Trustworthy and believable.

Thanks for bringing up Truman's war record, Lard...he's one of my heroes as well.

No real surprise, but still hilarious news from my old record label affiliation, EMI -- it has been discovered that some employees were writing off their drugs and prostitutes by listing them on expense accounts as "fruit and flowers."

Sturge, are you out there? ROFL!

I liked Chuck Todd better when he was at Hotline. Since he has been with NBC and started having his eyebrows done it appears to have damaged his brain

KGC
Good point
In many ways the Republican right is just as out of touch as the Democratic left when it comes to the military. The purple bandaids were over the line IMO. Notice that many military people have moved into the Democratic column and I suspect some of it has to be the cluelessness of the right.

Jack

New York Times article on Michelle Obama

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/18/us/politics/18michelle.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

Jack

The whole 2004 GOP performance made a joke of military service and certainly Bush's record with the military should make every service member and their family a Democrat.

What kind of a military depends on bakesales to provide body armour.

The US News article profmarcia put up at 8:35 a bears reading, and the comments appended to it are running about 50% against Bonnie Erbe's conclusion.

Please note while reading the article:

Bonnie Erbe puts up NO EVIDENCE, none, of the rampant sexism Obama is supposed to be denouncing. Not one specific example on which to hang her argument.

Erbe links to a CNN segment on angry Hillary supporters flocking to John McCain -- WHICH WAS SUBMITTED BY LARRY JOHNSON of NO QUARTER.

Watched about half of the video, they were discussing the effect but not the cause of this angry women's stampede.

Erbe also helpfully links to that 1970s disco looking site for angy Clinton supporters.

Again -- no evidence to support her conclusions.

Were Erbe prosecuting a case, a judge would throw it out of court for lack of evidence.

NOTE: I am not saying the evidence does not exist. It very well may. But for some reason Erbe saw no reason to introduce any.

She did get in a sentence about the National Journal ranking Obama as the #1 most liberal.

I know that's why so many moderates, independents, disaffected GOP and even supporters of Milton Friedman's ideas are flocking to Obama.

Morning KGC! You and Finian are up early.

To both you and Jack at 8:50 on the military: agreed.d

Hi Dog
Finian is not up! The vines you brought have some new growth and lots of little roots. I think they are going to make it.

ps Dog...full moon tonight you have about fifteen hours to get here for launch

Good to hear. I really need to download the trip pics soon and share.

Watch out for that vine. It's beautiful, and eventually will put out some spectacular flowers, but you have to keep whacking it back or it will overtake your home and yard. (Pictorial evidence to come.)

Still, I wish it grew in Virginia's climate. Would plant it in a second.

Midnight kayaking! Yikes. Shall be there in spirit.

KGC, Dog

If you haven't read it yet, read the McClatchy article I linked to up thread.
Amoung other things buried in the article,
It looks like JAG (military lawyers and justice system) is very pissed at the Bush administration for by passing them to set up Gitmo. The Bushies that pushed it are gone and JAG is left holding the bag.

Jack

Am I the only one who will not miss TR?

Iam sorry for being honest, but may God have his soul....
On the other hand, I will not miss his "insights" in politocs.....

Here's the McClatchy story Jack linked to about 7:15 a; to save others from hunting. Looks well worth a read.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/detainees/story/38886.html

Have to scoot; see you all later.

Posted by: Jason | June 18, 2008 9:17 AM

You are not the only one. I don't think Dennis Kucinich or Valerie Plame will miss him. I won't miss him.

I am of course very sorry for his family but as a journalist blah.

And I am sick to death of hearing about Irish Catholics
what happened to separation of Church and state

I don't want my news informed by the rules or tenents of the Catholic church,

As far as the GE goes: The republicans do not deserve to hold the office of the POTUS. Look where their leadership has led us. The screwed the whole country and their own party...

So the Dems screwed over their own in this primary, it comes down to a choice between the lesser of two evils.
Not much any of us can do to change that, at this point. The tide is turning for me, I can not see rewarding a party that lead us straight to the path to hell.

BTW : I think come November everyone will like MO, she's smart and strong. She is undergoing a public make-over, to highlight her good points. She'll help in bringing in the female vote, as will Hillary.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25234989/

As for TR, my co-worker met him, and from what she says, he was a wonderful person. She was in tears when she heard the news. I think if you knew him at all, (on any personal level) you would miss him.

mornin' all.

Good lord.

dog, what kind of vine doesn't grow in VA's climate? Kudzu? Wait, it does.

UB

MO has always been the thing I like best about Obama.
Much as HRC was one of the things I admired about Clinton. It takes a person very secure in themselves to be married to such strong women. I know many men who can't handle it. I suspect John McCain may be one.

Jack

Well I wasted way too much time in here this morning. I've got work to get done.
Jack

Very true Jack, I think many can easily confuse strong with over-bearing- there certainly a huge difference.

"Behind every great man there is a woman"

Isn't that how the saying goes?

Jack,

Not going to leave this yet.

Since this Campaign began, I have been made to feel like the enemy.

First because I backed Obama from the begining.

Then because I called for Civility here.

Last because of afiliation with Brian outside this blog.

Last for being Honest.

Now I have gotten used to all of you and others feelings of hate towards Obama. I get it. You notice I really don't talk politics here.

But since Last NOvember, I've had pot shots in the name of Brian. Dog and Harbor have had pot shots in the name of Brian.

I HAIL you for protecting your CLinton sisters.

But WHY did you take a shot at the three of us last night? Saying something SNOTTY about Brian's BIG SISTERS?

Why denigrade US in the name of your other sisters?

YOU are slapping other women down in the name of Brian.

Last November I was made to understand that I couldn't call for civility or human kindness anymore and this year I am by default, Brians Keeper.

I call BS. I call seriuously unfair. I call Msogyny on you.

YOu infact, by your nasty shots here and there have made all three of us feel as though we are hated because we are women.

Leave me alone Jack and anyone else who thinks because I am an SHEILA you can pick on me!

Allow me to associate with others here who actually don't mind my adding a comment here and there.

I have never been mean to any of you.

I haven't called names until now. Don't pick on me or ANY OTHER FEMALE on the other side for being friends with someone OFF THIS BLOG.

I'm not here enough for ANYONE to feel that they can punish me every time I show up.

And Jack, if you think I'm being silly, then you haven't learned a damned thing from these women about what it feels like to be the highlight of prejudice.

dog, Bonnie Erbe isn't trying to prove that Obama's campaign WAS sexist. She's saying, correctly, that a high percentage of Clinton's supporters PERCEIVED the Obama campaign as sexist (and some who post here would agree with that), between a fifth and a fourth of her supporters say they'll vote for McCain, and that an apology, rather than a list of policy positions, is what will be needed to try and get those offended supporters to vote for Obama. In politics, perception is reality to a big extent, so if she is right about how the disaffected Clinton supporters viewed the campaign, she MAY be right about an apology helping. Frankly, I don't agree with her. I think an apology would be seen as an insincere pander to try and get their votes, and I don't expect to see one.

I have listed countless examples of sexism in the Democratic primary, backed up by many articles. I have witnessed months of it on television and I have recorded what I heard. Seasoned journalists across the country and thousands of voters agree that rabid misgyny infected this primary.
Yet, dog says it never happened.

Howard Dean recently spoke about how we, as a nation, must address
the serious issue of sexism that was evident in the primary, although he spoke up far too late, even he admitted it. Yet, dog writes that there is no proof. Funny that Dean saw it. He's one of Obama's guys. If you want to reference look it up under "Dean and gender bias in media."

Yet, "dog's eye view" can't see it, refuses to accept there was sexism in the primary even after all of these noble and knowledgeable witnesses and reports have been presented to her.

Dog, just because you stamp your feet and insist it isn't so, won't make
the ugly sexist fog floating around the Democratic primary go away. It's real.
I saw it and I heard the loud roar of it.

No reference will satisfy dog's eye view. Cable news--not credible. Mainstream journalists, nah. Major newspapers, nope, won't due.

Frankly, let's not be coy, dog's eye has proven to me she doesn't really care about sources; she's not all that interested in the truth if it tarnishes her hero, Obama. And this truth certainly does just that.

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

Obama accuser has long rap sheet
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0608/11164.html

Posted by: Anonymous | June 18, 2008 9:44 AM

directed at Posted by: Chef Sheila | June 18, 2008 9:39 AM

MSNBC’s Chuck Todd and Rachel Maddow are young, geeky and hot
By AARON BARNHART
The Kansas City Star

Editor's Note: This story was published before the death of NBC News Washington bureau chief Tim Russert.

http://www.kansascity.com/782/story/661526.html

Poll: Obama Sweeps McCain In Swing States For First Time

* Florida: Obama edges McCain 47 - 43 percent;
* Ohio: Obama tops McCain 48 - 42 percent;
* Pennsylvania: Obama leads McCain 52 - 40 percent.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/18/poll-obama-sweeps-mccain_n_107753.html

Landslide a coming! You all better run for cover.

So Anonymous,

I hope that someday you will have somone that treats you well. I think you need a little bit of kindness. Everyone does.

Shelia,
Stick around Shelia, you have every right to be here and be respected.

It stinks whenever someone is attacked from anyone, in any manner.

If we have rights to opinions, I am hoping that doesn't mean we all need to embrace the same opinions in order to coexist in a civil manner.

Now I have to walk to work....
peace~

Chef Sheila,

As one who has been repeatedly attacked by Brain from the first moment
I typed a word on this blog, I say that your moral outrage seems a bit
strange to me. Not that I'm questioning your feelings. You have every right
to feel hurt.

But, as a person who also practices restraint and civility, I often tremble
when some Obama folk begin assaults on me.

I'm sure other Clinton supporters feel as outraged as you do by attacks from
Brian or some other Obama person.
I'm just saying, it works both ways.

Enough already with this back-and-forth over who's naughty and who's nice. Please! Once points are made four or five times, it becomes stupefyingly repetitive and boring.

"... she's not all that interested in the truth if it tarnishes her hero, Obama. And this truth certainly does just that." Posted by: prof marcia | June 18, 2008 9:44 AM

Professor,
I agree with so much that you post. And the thing is we're not even talking about Obama. This is a completely separate issue. We're not so much complaining about injustice because of ANY kind of prejudice (race, sexism, you name it) as we are trying to understand it and deal with it and rid ourselves of it.

Thanks Burrito,

You are a good woman with integrity. I have really enjoyed our ageements and our disagreements.

I am not going any where. I have been here from the beginning and will not give up my place here.

I am happy you are still here too. I decent voice to have a good converstaion.

Sorry Craig,
Saw your post after I made mine.

Give me effin break
No one attacked you you choose to make it into an attack on yourself so you could climb up on a cross.

As for my life, sounds like you are projecting.

No one is trying to run you off, you are the one who always runs off whining because of perceived slights.

I think there is a handful of people on this blog who truly don't like each other, and then there are those who get caught in the line of fire. (maybe because they don't know the history , whatever, it doesn't matter )

If those who don't care for each other would just "take it outside", maybe there wouldn't be the constant collateral damage.

?

GTG : the longer I stay here the less I want to walk.!

attempt to understand. peace~

Enough already with this back-and-forth over who's naughty and who's nice. Please! Once points are made four or five times, it becomes stupefyingly repetitive and boring.

Posted by: Craig Crawford Author Profile Page | June 18, 2008 9:56 AM

Amen!

Thanks Craig! As usual, you're the voice of sanity.

It is boring to keep going over the same old arguments.

Let's all be nice even if we don't agree about politics.

I don't really dislike anybody on this blog. If I met any one of you, I'd
probably enjoy a lively discussion with you.

Sorry Craig,

I for one have kept silent for a long time.

I will silent up again! But some time, somewhere, someone should stand up for decency. When being pummeled for many many many months.

I just did. Now I am finished.

Amen!

Posted by: BrianInNYC | June 18, 2008 10:01 AM

Now that's funny

"If Sen. Obama seriously is thinking about picking Sen. Clinton as his running mate, these numbers might cause him to reconsider. The people who really matter come November - independent voters - turn thumbs down on the idea. And, many say they are less likely to vote for him if he puts her on the ticket," Brown added.
http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x2882.xml?ReleaseID=1187

Hey all, I don't mind arguments at all -- but why not find something new to argue about now and then?

And it sure would be nice to stick to debating issues, politics and politicians instead of insulting each other

here's how Webster defines what i really don't like to see on here:

Adhominem
1 : appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect
2 : marked by or being an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made

"I am sorry for being honest, but may God have his soul....
On the other hand, I will not miss his "insights" in politocs.....
Posted by: Jason | June 18, 2008 9:17 AM

Jason,
I didn't know we were 'allowed' to say that.
He wasn't my favorite, either.

prof marcia: you put up a series of links yesterday to articles, I told you I would read them and comment once I had. Also told you it would take a while to do so.

Stop your crusading about "dog's eye was not serious."

I am entirely serious, and if you read my posts more clearly, you would see that.

Craig: I think your intervening after Sheila put up a very well worded post sounds like trying to shut down discussion of the points she raised.

Further, I think that a lot of the new commenters are guilty of the very behavior they profess to deplore.

Some of them are just too passionate to see it. Some of them may do it on purpose, and a very few appear to be too obtuse to see their stuff for what it is.

Don't shut Sheila down after others have been trying to drive her away and attack her for months.

And please note that Sheila has been calling for a level of civility that rarely exists on this blog any more.

Morning, all

Craig -- The Second Wave feminists had a saying, "The personal is political and the political is personal." Have you ever seen politics get this personal?

I was just talking with a friend the other night about how difficult it's been for us to pivot to the DEM nominee THIS time, when in all other time before we just naturally went for whom ever it was.

New polls out show Obama up in Florida, Ohio, and Pennsylvania:

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/06/heres_your_bounce_obama_up_in.php

Woohoo!

Kerry led in the polls too

I am happy that Craig said this to us, and I will try hard to use his advice. I usually wish he would intervene more and guide us in the right direction more often. It's always good to hear from him And he knows more about Politics than anyone else. He is our guiding influence, or at least he should be. This is his site, after all.

Anonymous: What's significant about these polls is that they speak to an Obama "bounce." Frankly, I think it's pretty amazing that he has a slight lead in Florida.

Glenn Greenwald
Monday June 16, 2008 15:45 EDT
Targeting Steny Hoyer for his contempt for the rule of law
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/06/16/hoyer/index.html

This is true about EVERY issue, especially on Iraq. But I will say what Glenn will not - it starts with holding BARACK OBAMA to account. His silence about this proposed capitulation is deafening. Want to be the leader of the Party? Of the Nation? Senator Obama, the time is now. And let's start with a denunciation of this cowardly capitulation by the House Democratic leadership on FISA.
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/6/17/223310/992

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/06/war-heroes-not-wanted.html#comment-104074

Dog's Eye, no one is being shut down. But I am reacting to what i hear offline from many lurkers (which is about 10 times the daily population of those who actually post here). Most rave about the interesting debates and useful links in our Comments section, but they complain about the distracting personal squabbles that go on for hours and hours.

dog, I can assure you that given Craig's and Sheila's long history, and Sheila's repeated calls for civility here over the past few months, his comments were not directed at her.

Kerry had a bounce too
10 point national lead at one point

What's significant about these polls is that they speak to an Obama "bounce." Frankly, I think it's pretty amazing that he has a slight lead in Florida.

These polls aren't always reflective of what's happening, for some reason. They're a good guide line, but I certainly wouldn't take them to the bank. During the primary, he almost always polled high. He would get huge turnouts at his rallies, then lose the state vote to Hillary. He needs to be careful and broaden his base. It's been a while since he's done really well in the votes done. It seemed to go steadily downhill.

PoU, I echo your surprise at the QU FL poll. The anticipated bounce after Clinton conceded (or whatever it was that she did) may have just been delayed.

chloe:

Come on, do you have to bring a rain cloud out on a sunny day? By highlighting the polls, I'm simply pointing to an Obama bounce. This should make democrats happy. Of course, polls change, voters attitudes change, but you have to at least respect the movement he's had post primary.

Utopia Ohio is proving the big surprise to me, I'm flabbergasted at how quickly Obama is taking the lead there.

I don't know how many of you watching TV right now, but Bush just had the nerve to blame high gas prices on the Dems. Who the hell does this guy think he's fooling?

OK
Craig
I'm outta here for a while then
You win Brian.
Have fun

Jack

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/fl/florida_mccain_vs_obama-418.html

Other polls paint a different picture in Florida
Like the PPP poll on Ohio yesterday, it looks like there are polling problems with the two showing Obama ahead.

Brian: What's Bush's argument on that one?

Well I am not and thank you Craig for reminding all that debate is more fun and diatribe.

See you all later. Time for work.

OK
Craig
I'm outta here for a while then
You win Brian.
Have fun
Jack

Jack, I sure hope you don't mean that.
I can't imagine this place without you.
Please don't think that any of that was about you.

Something to do with the lack of new refineries. I was on the phone while he was speaking and only paying half attention. More bullshit to line the pocket of his oil company buds. Everything was about turning up production, nothing about reducing consumption. While I understand that the jump in gas pricing is providing a very hard time for a great many people in the long term it's the best thing that can happen to this country.

"The Republicans did the most damage to the military brand with their "purple heart bandages", electing someone who was awol and trashing the record of someone who did serve."

Agree totally, KGC.

While I understand that the jump in gas pricing is providing a very hard time for a great many people in the long term it's the best thing that can happen to this country.

Posted by: BrianInNYC | June 18, 2008 10:50 AM

What a load of caca since you have previously announced none of this effects you because you have public transport. You sound like Bush.

And chloe, you are right to suggest that the polls are volatile and not necessarily reflective of the ultimate voting outcome. That said, this is unexpectedly good news for the obama campaign. FL & OH, and to a lesser extent, PA stand as tough tests for him - if these results suggest the beginning of a trend toward a dem vote in them, the landslide predictions could come true. And you rcomments about broadening his base are spot on, lwhich is why paying attention to the independent voters' opinions on running mates in the swing states is important. (Clinton supporter who despite accusations to the contrary, recognizes political realities).

Hmm...and Charlie Crist is backing off from his support of the federal ban on offshore oil drilling....bleh

Shrub blamed Bill Clinton for today's gas crisis.. Apparently, since the media and Obama have made the Clinton's the preferred punching bags, Shrub thought he would just pile on.

Yeah, right dog. Everybody else is wrong and you are right. No sexism exists and whatever existed during the campaign is ho-hum. Jeezus. Do you just sit around your mother's house and smoke dope? You seem that far out of touch with reality.

Well it does effect me anon, I've watched my food cost go up over the past few months just like the rest of America. And just because something doesn't effect one personally doesn't mean one can't be empathetic for what others are going through.

"I call Msogyny on you. "

What a crock, Sheila. As if you have any moral authority in a discussion of sexism. You've enabled it in Brian for months.

For 7 1/2 years Dems have been asking who was invited to make energy policy. Far from making oil & gas expensive, they don't even know who's doing it to us.

It has been the bush/cheney/mccain policy for 7 1/2 years to boost the price of oil and gas and make the dollar worhtless. What we are experiencing today is no glitch or accident. These are oil patch boys serving the other owners of the oil patch. & mccain is one of them on his mom's side.

The Enron Loophole and Your Gas Prices

The biggest cause is not OPEC, or increased demand from China. Instead, it's that same fun bunch that brought us the collapse in today's housing market: rich speculators, working through global investment banks and hedge funds.
http://www.creators.com/opinion/jim-hightower.html

Taking aim from the inside, though, was Ms. Couric, who herself has faced harsh criticism as the first woman to be the solo anchor of an evening news broadcast. Ms. Couric posted a video on the CBS Web site on Wednesday about the coverage of Mrs. Clinton.

“Like her or not, one of the great lessons of that campaign is the continued — and accepted — role of sexism in American life, particularly in the media,” Ms. Couric said.

She went on to lament the silence of those who did not speak up against it.

Candy Crowley, covering the campaign for CNN, said that for the most part, she did not see a drumbeat of sexism in the daily reporting, “but I certainly did see it in the commentary.”

Howard Dean, chairman of the Democratic Party, who says he was slow to pick up on charges of sexism because he is not a regular viewer of cable television, is taking up the cause after hearing an outcry from what he described as a cross-section of women, from individual voters to powerful politicians and chief executives.

“The media took a very sexist approach to Senator Clinton’s campaign,” Mr. Dean said in a recent interview.

“It’s pretty appalling,” he said, adding that the issue resonates because Mrs. Clinton “got treated the way a lot of women got treated their whole lives.”
(I think his wife beat him up)

Cable television has come under the most criticism. Chris Matthews, a host on MSNBC, called Mrs. Clinton a “she-devil” and said she had gotten as far as she had only because her husband had “messed around.”

Mike Barnicle, a panelist on MSNBC, said that Mrs. Clinton was “looking like everyone’s first wife standing outside a probate court.” Tucker Carlson, also on MSNBC, said, “When she comes on television, I involuntarily cross my legs.”

The establishment news media were faulted too. The New York Times wrote about Mrs. Clinton’s “cackle” and The Washington Post wrote about her cleavage.

Ken Rudin, an editor at National Public Radio, appeared on CNN, where he equated Mrs. Clinton with the actress Glenn Close in “Fatal Attraction.” “She’s going to keep coming back, and they’re not going to stop her,"

For those interested...Michelle Obama is on The View

"But some time, somewhere, someone should stand up for decency."

Decency, thy name is Brian.

Ok, folks, gotta rush off. University of Florida's graduate student union, GAU, is beginning contract bargaining this afternoon. Wish us luck!

Beginning to be talk of a September Surprise from the Repubs - it's not the MO video (s). Can you guess? This move by the Repubs would throw the election into chaos.

You say that now. But not just a few short weeks ago

9/11 pointed out the food issues and you just brushed it off.

luck utopia.

Anonymous wrote:

"What a load of caca since you have previously announced none of this effects you because you have public transport. You sound like Bush."

Caca? Bush? Here we go again with anonymous' personal attacks and abuse yet again. What a bore.

The one proposal that would have given relief to the people who need it the most, you dismissed as pandering.

What do you propose for people who are choosing between buying gas and eating. Or for people who have quit their jobs because gas is more then their salary. I am sure your empathy will help them out a lot.

ok, it obviously didn't sink in for some, so i will try again. It is disgusting, childish and totally counterproductive to use personal insults to make your points.

Adhominem
1 : appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect
2 : marked by or being an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made

Okay Craig. I'll try to play nicer. It's hard though. Because nobody ever taught me the politics of passive aggression and backhanded smearing. I grew up believing in directness. Bad on my parents.

Caca? Bush? Here we go again with anonymous' personal attacks and abuse yet again. What a bore.
Posted by: xrepublican | June 18, 2008 11:05 AM

Again, EVERYONE here is anonymous. If we don't agree with someones opinion, then maybe we should move on to the next post. Why stop to attack. Everyone being anonymous makes us all equal too. Seniority doesn't matter. People should be able to say whatever it is they want to say and move on. period.

Thanks Lushis - got it on now. I don't usually watch that show. Interesting assembly around that table. Oooh she reached out and just touched Elizabeth! She's pandering to the right!

Whatever anon, frankly I don't keep track of my old posts the way you do. I have better things to do with my time. Have fun.

Based on recent polling Obama is almost 100 votes ahead in the electoral map, god damn, landslide a coming!

http://www.electoral-vote.com/

Okay Craig. I'll try to play nicer.
Posted by: Patsi | June 18, 2008 11:08 AM

Patsi,
I know it's none of my business, but I don't think Craig is talking directly to you either.

Your directness is refreshing. Don't change.

KC, you wouldn't expect Dumya to acknowledge that it is his father's executive order he plans to overturn and Reagan's ban on offshore exploration (that was passed on the heels of the gasoline crisis during Carter's term) - they were republicans, right? - or the almost total lack of applications for new refineries - those have to be filed by the oil companies, right? - would you? It's so much easier just to say it's the Democrats' fault, knowing that the American people will pressure their MOCs to DO ANYTHING that MIGHT (as opposed to will) ease energy prices, and knowing that there are probably enough MOCs with too little spine to stand up and call bullshit on him.

Here is the latest Harris Poll

Everyone hates Bush (Cheney more)
Only 14% of Americans think we are on the right track
It begs the question, why is the presidential race still close.

http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=915

Lieberman Skips Senate Dems' Strategy Meeting
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/06/lieberman_skips_senate_dems_st.php

Dead man walking!

Pogo,

Bush doesn't remember what happened last week let alone during his father's administration.

The government should subsidize gas prices as a bail out as they have done for big corporations.

If Bush ended the war in Iraq, oil prices could stop climbing. I can't find it now but someone put together a great site explaining the impact of the war on the economy. I think it is part of the BlueAmerica candidates plan to end the war NOW.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/06/war-heroes-not-wanted.html#comment-104116

" People should be able to say whatever it is they want to say and move on. period. -- Posted by: chloe"

-- Couldn't agree more, Chloe. Especially the "move on" part. Enough already of my own ranting. Some good issue discussions underway here today.

http://www.responsibleplan.com/

They don't make new refineries because it is more cost effective to expand old ones. That way, they don't have to build a new harbor & pipeline, or make qa different connection to the electrical grid and highway system.

Discussing the quinipac poll on MSNBC interesting that they are saying that in Ohio Obama is proving very strong among women. More and more it's looking like all the classic Dem caucus is coming together behind Obama. They gotta be sweating bullets in Grandpa's camp.

Irrational exuberance. Look at past elections and poll numbers.

I'm sorry, Chloe, but would you please allow Craig to speak for himself? He seems quite capable of getting his meaning across without assistance.

"1 : appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect "

Uh, Craig....does this mean we can still call people dumb as a box of rocks?

(just kidding....)

KC, it's almost a perfect storm. The dollar has been driven to record lows against almost every major currency, the war has been a drain on the economy, worldwide petrolem production lags slightly behind demand as a policy position of OPEC and other petro exporters to keep oil prices high among the speculators, the government and huge agribusiness boondoggled us with food based ethanol, and the financial markets looked backward to income trends that have since reversed and played their shenanigans with mortgage gizmos that created an ownership class that couldn't afford to own. For the foreseeable future, everything except housing will cost more and we are screwed.

"Enough already of my own ranting."
--Craig Crawford

Yeah, Craig, stop "blog clogging" with all your nasty posts!!

just kidding...

LOLOLOL!!

xr, if that's responding to my post, it's applications for increased refining capacity, not necessarily new standalone facilities that I am referring to. I wasn't clear.

Bipolar Disorder: Is America Divided?
U.S. Politics, Media & Journalism, Elections, Politics

".... Intellectuals and partisans may line up at the extremes, but ordinary people mix and match values from competing menus. ....... "above all moderate," "reluctant to pass judgment," and "tolerant to a fault." Because opinion polls are designed to elicit and categorize disagreements, he concluded, they tend to obscure and even distort this reality."

"...On election day, of course, independents who want to vote almost always have to choose between a Republican and a Democrat....Many of them, however, are undecided until the last moment and aren't particularly happy with either choice."

Politically speaking, our fifty-fifty America is a divisive, rancorous place. The rest of the world should be so lucky.

http://www.brookings.edu/articles/2005/01media_rauch.aspx

Lynn C- if you are still here ... you posted a url to an article written by a lawyer, accusing Steny Hoyer and the House Democratic leadership of caving in on the FISA bill. Unfortunately, the article contained no details about the proposed compromise.
Sen Sheldon Whitehouse, D of Rhode Island also proposed a compromise ... one that is currently available in law, but which the telecoms cannot use at present. That is that anyone with standing be allowed to sue the government, not the telecoms.
IF the telecoms had assurances from the government that the directive was lawful, then they should be off the hook. Since the telecoms have presented no defense, I assume that they received national defense letters.
I do not see why the telecoms should be held liable for what the Bush Administration did, and any compromise that gets them off the hook