Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Hey First again! Let the coffee klatch begin!

Who should he NOT pick:

1. HRC

Anyone else is suitable......

It will however be a white guy....
Maybe Edwards. I think Edwards is the closest to trying to bring back HRC supporters. However it did not help in the primary. But on the other hand, GE time is another time....

The thing is, I don´t know if he would want to have Edwards on the team. A string of failed bids for Pres and Vice pres is not really what you want to have along as a runningmate....

Richardson is out of the question and poor Judas knows that.

GGG --

I don't know if a governor without previous DC experience is a good idea. And, some of those governors might be too obscure for the public to want to take a chance. Obama's got a big enough challenge overcoming the unknown/lack of vetting problem. The GOP will define him.

Tim Kaine's support these days is a mile wide and an inch deep in VA. His over-the-top behavior in endorsing Obama is ticked off a lot of his donors who felt he was disrepectful to Hillary Clinton. Kaine is NOT the governor that Mark Warner was -- he has not accomplished a thing. Our roads are still clogged with traffic, schools have not improved, our economy is wholly supported by the military industrial complex and federal government. He has not been successful in attracting new business to the state. His universal preschool idea is stuck in permanent time-out. We have over the national average in foreclosures. The VA Tech parents are very upset at the way he conducted that investigation ad effectively shut them out.

Webb is a new senator -- less than two years in. Zero personality. Terrible campaigner, no people skills, just doesn't connect. He doesn't bring the women -- we held our noses and voted for him as Senator because George Allen was so much worse -- but he was very much the male warrior, Tail Hook apologist when he was NavSec.

I don't know if I would want HRC to be VP for Obama.

But she is the most qualified.

I don't think the VP needs to be a white male as much as it needs to be someone who can connect with the Bubbas and the Bubbies.

Joe S. is saying if you're enough of a man you can pick a strong woman to be the VP. Good point.

Hillary Clinton, arguably, is the most high-profile, talented, hard working,
intelligent, popular ( among many voters) Democrat, next to Obama in the party. All the other Democrats who ran for president were quickly eliminated. She also would bring over 18 million voters with her if she united with Obama.
Why is everyone pretending that Hillary isn't the most qualified Democrat
to lead this nation? Granted she lost, but she has earned a place next to
Obama on the ticket.

I know Obama supporters will be unhappy, but why not share some of the
unhappiness with Clinton supporters, Maybe uniting the party means that everyone has to make sacrifices and no one can be completely happy.

If Obama gave Hillary heath care to work on, she'd be busy most of the time
anyway and Obama could get on with other business.

I think the media and Obama surrogates are, as usual, condemning Hillary as VP simply because they hate her.

the clinton of damocles........

Good morning Marcia --

Some Hillary friends came over last night and we did have some champagne -- so I really know how you feel this am.

The Obama people don't just hate Hillary -- they hate anyone who disagrees with them. As someone recently pointed out if you question Obama, you're get labeled a racist, just like George Bush castigated anyone who raised question about his policies as unpatriotic.

To the rumor that Michelle Obama hates Hillary, I say to Mrs. Obama, grow
up and act like a politician's wife--do what's best for the party even if it means
putting Hillary on the ticket. I still think it's the dream ticket, although I would
have much preferred a Hillary as president, Obama as VP scenario. Of course,I know even a lot of Clinton people don't agree with me. My mother says she wouldn't vote for Obama even if Hillary was his VP.

I now wait for the onslaught of crazed Obama supporters to attack.

Craig -- I voted on the CQ VP madness. The info about Tim Kaine calls him a "First Term Governor." Now you know that Virginia's Constitution only allows governors to have one term, right? CQ needs to change that part.

Tim Kaine will have nothing to do after 2009. He would throw the Commonwealth over for his own political career, even if it meant that we would be stuck with a horrible GOP governor for a year.

The Obama supporters on this blog are constantly lecturing us Clintonistas
that we "have to get over it," "unite the party," "salute the new head
of the party." Yet, when the topic of Hillary as VP is suggested to pull the
party together, they rail against her and us, like the idea is scandalous. Doesn't it seem like the Clinton people are the only Democrats expected to make compromises? Why is that?

Prof Marcia,
Sometimes you should not question....... Just read and let it go!
Rationale is sometimes just ignoring.

Furthermore.... I know that HRC is the most qualified, without a doubt. Alas, I do not think that bringing her onto his team as VP would be wise for BO. She will overshadow him for the most part and probably would not get the credit. that will tick her off, in my opinion. The emdia will constantly look for her is he makes mistakes, blame her for everything and give him the free ride

HRC is not meant to be VP.

He can pick his alter ego, from whom he borrowed his speeches. Now wouldn´t that be a treat? We´d have twins as Pres en Veep. :))

I just checked to see who is ahead in the CQ Democratic VP race.
I'm astounded. Bill (no personality) Richardson is tied with pretty
boy, two-time campaign loser, John Edwards--not that there's anything
really wrong with either of these two men, it's just that I don't think
they'll be bringing the sort of high octane pizzazz to the party that Hillary would--
not to mention over 18 million voters. (I apologize if you voted for either of
these guys. I truly have nothing against them).

Everyone was making fun of HRC and her looks...
Has anybody taken a good look and Michelle O?

My mouth wasn´t cold about Oprah and she allready sent out a statement: She is very happy for Barrack and made a joyous dance for his candidature. She said. if he called me, I would go door to door for him and campaign.....
More and more I feel let down by her...REALLY!

Hi Jason,

Of course, you make some good points. As I said, the pragmatic part me
realizes that Obama and Clinton might have some problems relating to each other, but my point is that maybe their pairing might win the election for
Democrats.

A new Pew or Gallop poll claims that Obama beats McCain by 5%
if Hillary is the VP and without her he is merely tied with McCain.

I think that he should pick Rev. Sharpton. That would be a unity ticket and would help with the AA vote.

Jamie, if you log in sometime today, before I forget, please change my classification.

Within the last 24 hours, I morphed into a Switcher-Loyalist. I'm hovering
between these two. But, I'm not a Vacationer.

Thanks so much for your wonderful list!

I agree that HRC is not meant to be vice president. Attorney General, maybe. My wish list for Obama's veep, in no particular order, consists of Ed Rendell, though HRC supporters could take this the wrong way and think of him as a traitor; Jim Webb, because he seems to be straight out of central casting as strong veep whose strengths complement Obama's weaknesses; and Gen. Wesley Clark, because I like and respect him an awful lot.

I think Obama should consider Skinny Dennis for VP
that would be turning page. It would set the stage for a Dept of Peace and for new forms of diplomacy.

Yesterday's post on who should be talking to whom and under what circumstances? Let me know when anybody starts talking to the Cuban government no matter which Castro is leading it. As long as we are behaving badly in our own backyard --any talk about elsewhere is just so much piffle.

Our Cuban policy is the standard for judging stupid.

Bowmanc,

That's so funny--Al Sharpton as VP!

hillary is not the most qualified.

she will not help obama win votes in areas where he needs help [like a strong military background]; she still has the highest negatives of anybody, ever, in the pres race; she is old politics, [situational ethics], and repubs are already using her words in ads against obama; repubs will come back from the dead to vote against any clinton; and on and on.

most importantly for our country...who on earth thinks they could govern well together? and, bill...OMG.

think, for example, wesley clark or sam nunn.

I thought Jim Webb was interesting as a leader until I read Alicia's earlier
post today. I'm now reconsidering. Alicia who lives in Webb's state says he is more of a male warrior, military, Tail Hook kind of guy.

Nobody jumps out as being the perfect fit. I suppose Wes Clark is good because he's a wonk, and he would neutralize the fringe military people that Mr Obama gathered during the primary campaign.

Webb would go crazy in the job.

Marcia, you're on a roll this morning!

I think that Ed Rendell as VP will piss off more HRC supporters. Aftr all these people who turned on the Clinton´s this would not be a very good move. And I don not think Ed would want it. Also think Evan Bayh would pass.....

To be quite honest, I think it will be either John Edwards or Katherine Sebelius.
He needs the blue collar and women, and doesn´t need the hispanics....(in his mind. Not meant condescending towards the Hispanics)

Too many cafe lattes at Starbucks this morning.

Flatus,
That is also a good point. He needs military expertise...
But he can fumble that onto a secretary of defense though....

The thriller on Chatrier is underway and Novak is trailing Raffa

Prof M -- I don't want Hillary anywhere near the ticket. They're already setting her up for his loss....and if she's on the ticket she'll get nothing but grief.

You've got that right, Patsi.

Not that I'm one of those latte drinking, elite, educated, upper middle
class Democrats.

or sam nunn.

If he picks Sam Nunn he is picking the worst of the worst old school. Nunn screwed over Democratic leadership while he was in the Senate to pander to the military, I don't think he is acceptable.

I would never vote for an Obama-Nunn ticket.
Plus his stupid participation in the phony Unity 08 nonsense makes him unacceptable as well.

I tried cream and sugar (once) in my mess hall coffee. I've been a purist since then. I do take off my work gloves before I start drinking it, mostly because of my arthritis. But I leave my hat on.

BO will probably pick Webb to counter McCain's military experience. Still playing to the left. BO & the DNC don't understand a thing about playing to the middle.

Novak is still trailing Raffa in the all important 8th game of the 1st set...
ohhhh the drama.....

Anyone with me on Katherine S. and John E. I think it is a lock.
HRC is definitely out and she knows that. She also did not engage the meeting yesterday.....That says a lot.

Patsi,

I'm sure you're right that the media would blame Hillary if she were
on the ticket and Obama lost. She doesn't need anymore hate mongering
from the pundits. Maybe she should just go to a nice spa and rest for
a month, have a facial. I don't know why this push to have her out campaigning for Obama. Give the woman some time.

If Obama continues to have problems with women voters, I don't think Webb would be helpful

Rendell has already said NO VP to Clinton when she was still in the race and to Obama. He is rumored to want to be Secy of Energy. Pa has some very innovative energey initiatives and it is more his style then being someone's punching bag.

Edwards is a non starter. Sebellius maybe but they better send her to Dale Carnegie first.

LOL @ prof marcia.....
Indeed,
a facial, a mudbath, an bikiniwax...anything to keep her away.
I am so fed up with this. Leave the woman alone.
If I were HRC...I would board a plane on Saturday after the meeting and jet off to South Africa, stay there for 2 months and come back at the start of August!

I mean, tarrantula Michelle said that she didn´t know if she would campaign for Hillary if she were the nominee. I would say: Hill, take 2 months and think about Campigining for Barrack.. :))

Katherine,
Why is Edwards a non starter?

They both ganged up on HRC in the primary. We all know Edwards loves BO. He only held off on endorsing him because of Elizabeth...
I think he is is a shoe in for the so called blue collar voters...think Pa, SD, Ky etc etc

All MOJO watchers: Do you love how they make fun of Hillary this morning with the Crown Royal shots and the pumping gas and the laugh and the coffee machine? I assure you that if Obama had lost the nomination (and it was basically a tie as it is now) it would be a 24-hour montage of images titled something like this: "Death of a Dream: The Barack Obama Candidacy". There would be endless discussion of the heartache in the AA community and the sure death of the youth movement. What does this mean to dreamers? How can the nation ever recover?

MUST. STOP. WATCHING. CABLE. NEWS.

Michelle should have gone to Sarah Lawrence rather than Princeton.

Off topic -- an adviser makes it clearer that McCain's backs Bush's arrogant, unconstitutional abuse of executive powers.

Pug? Kind of hard to have a divided government when the Prez believes he is 7/8ths of it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/06/us/politics/06mccain.html?hp

And one more cable news thing: On Anderson Cooper last night they had the whole BREAKING NEWS thing about the supposed meeting at Hillary's house. So they spent an hour talking about the meaning of the meeting being at her house. How it was a show of respect for Obama to go to her house; gracious. There is so much MEANING in the location. Of course, then it breaks that the meeting wasn't actually at her house. Um, they didn't go back and try to re-analyze all of the crap they had said about the respect and the graciousness.

And, Good Morning Trailmixers. Sorry to be such a crabby patty this morning but I am cranky. As far as the VP thing goes, I believe it will be Jim Webb. He will not ask HRC; his supporters will never stand for it. It will "tarnish his brand".

"I assure you that if Obama had lost the nomination (and it was basically a tie as it is now) it would be a 24-hour montage of images titled something like this: "Death of a Dream: The Barack Obama Candidacy". There would be endless discussion of the heartache in the AA community and the sure death of the youth movement."

Exactly right. Plus, How the Clintons Stole the Nomination.

Jason

I don't think Edwards loves Obama. I also don't agree that he brings in blue collar voters. Plus there is all the bad press that comes with Edwards breck girl, the hedge fund etc. I think the "poverty czar" position is more likely if Edwards takes any position in the private sector.

To make his narrative believable he needs to find someone like himself. Sebellius is close --
Another name mentioned is Janet Napolitano gov of Az
she has done some great things on campaign finance
and seems to be a pretty good governor.

I still want Hillary if she wants the job, but think it would be risky from the "getting blamed for anything that went wrong" aspect. Any other woman would just piss me off even more that I already am. Edwards has taken himself out of the running.

Obama needs someone with international experience but Richardson is a turncoat louse on a weasel so forget him.

good morning gang.....

I think Hillary should stay in the Senate.....

I did play the VP game for McCain..... but when I clicked on Craig's link this morning...... I just stared at it for a few minutes..... and then realized I could care less.....

hey Bowman..... now, now..... you know Obama must balance the ticket with a white guy..... I suggest Don Imus....

The Lists: Everybody heads up. I need changes, additions, corrections:

The Belmont

Big Brown - Renee, HW, Politically Pissed,

Guadalcanal

Macho Again - Patd

Denis of Cork - Maggiesd

Casino Drive

Da' Tara

Tale of Ekati

Ready's Echo

Anak Nakal - Pogo

Icabad Crane - Jamie, E. T.,

PS, Ally and other HFJ fans -- My son ran into Harold in DC yesterday and he said he's having a great time in all his new gigs....but REALLY loves teaching some classes at Vandy. Wish I could afford Vandy tuition to take one of them.

Fox got it right last night as far as the location of the meeting.

I saw the "fun" they were having this morning on MoJo at the expense of Hillary, tee hee, giggle. I can't remember which network it was but yesterday I heard some guy say something to the effect that Oprah would be able to bring all the female votes onboard.

Sebelius: Way too boring for the rest of America. She works in Kansas but I don't "get her" out of that state (plus the Don't Drop the Soap game of her son's would be endless fodder for Fox).

Edwards is a problem for the reasons KGC mentioned plus the 28,000 sq. ft. house. I agree he will be "Poverty Czar" or Attorney General.

I don't think any woman but Hillary would be a good idea. It will be seen as an attempt to pander to women and yet a big ole slap in the face at the same time.

Ally,

You are so right! I continue to torture myself by watching MSNBC--not
as often as I did, but I have to force myself not look as I switch channels.
It is despicable that even now the MoJo hecklers can't leave Hilary alone. And what about us? Her supporters? The pundits and Obama people continue to blab about pulling the party together, yet 24/7 Clinton and her followers
are ridiculed and punched.

Yeah, I really feel like coming together with these people.

PS, Ally and other HFJ fans -- My son ran into Harold in DC yesterday and he said he's having a great time in all his new gigs....but REALLY loves teaching some classes at Vandy. Wish I could afford Vandy tuition to take one of them.

Posted by: Patsi | June 6, 2008 8:20 AM

How exciting: A siting! And you are only two degrees of separation. Luckyyyyy.

One of my son's friends just got an amazing scholarship to Vandy for Jazz Band. Now the director is in weekly contact with another one of my son's friends for next year (my kid is only a Freshman but is good friends with the Juniors and Seniors in the program.) I have been opposed to him doing music while in college but I don't know how opposed I would be if it was that school. And knowing that a HFJ siting would be possible, I could be convinced.

Jamie, mornin'

Thanks for the updated list. I feel better now.

Jamie...
For the 5th time: I am not an vacation, I am GONE! :))

Thankx Katherine,

Well in my opinion it WIIL be a white male...Or if he is focussing on women, a white woman. But I don´t buy it. He is a miunority and cannot afford too much of drama, he needs for balance a white male....

Richardson is done. For sure. And he knows it. He also knows that he will not come back as governor, he is labbeled as traitor and that is going to bite him...forever.

Don´t know that much about Napolitano though......

Marcia, Lizbeth: What the pundits (and the campaigns) don't realize is that when they ridicule her or say that she needs to be "vetted" for the VP position, it IS an insult of sorts to her supporters. She was good enough for the 18,000,000 people who voted for her but now they condescend with such statements as "she needs to be vetted"? If they want to drive the camps farther and farther apart and almost to the point of no return, just keep it up with this kind of rhetoric.

Ally,
maybe that is their goal......

OMG...

My poor Novak is really losing it at this point....Aiiiiiiiiii

One more question: Donna Brazile on CNN last night said, on more occasion, that now the DNC can focus on the convention and things like the RBC seating the entire Florida and Michigan delegations. Say what? We all knew they would do this once Obama secured the nomination, but is it good idea to advertise the strategy a mere 5 days after the big production was made over the penalties? And the rules? Double oy on that one.

I meant to say "on more than one occasion."

Jason: I know. I know.

So let it be said so let it be written:
CNN's Political Debates
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/debates/

ABC's Clinton-Obama Debate Pennsylvania:
Obama on taxes. Is it $75,000 or $250,000? Is it per family or individual? The enlighten ones answers, then restructures his answer. When pressed his answers always turn out to be non-answers. But the starry eyed MSM just chalked it up to another mis-speak. Not good to prove the enlighten one for clarification, or some might might think of us asracist.

STEPHANOPOULOS: An absolute commitment, no middle-class tax increases of any kind?

CLINTON: No. That's right. That is my commitment.

GIBSON: Senator Obama?

STEPHANOPOULOS: Would you take the same pledge?

OBAMA: Well, I not only have pledged not to raise their taxes, I've been the first candidate in this race to specifically say I would cut their taxes.

One of the centerpieces of my economic plan would be to say that we are going to offset the payroll tax, the most regressive of our taxes, so that families who are earning -- who are middle-income, individuals making $75,000 a year or less, that they would get a tax break so that families would see up to a thousand dollars' worth of relief.

Senior citizens who have earnings of less than $50,000 wouldn't have to pay income tax on their Social Security. And middle-class homeowners who currently don't itemize on their tax filings, they would be able to get a deduction the same way that wealthy individuals do.

Now, here's the reason why that's important. We have seen wages and incomes flat or declining at a time when costs have gone up. And one of the things that we've learned from George Bush's economic policies, which John McCain now wants to follow, is that pain trickles up.

And so, partly because people have been strapped and have had a tough time making ends meet, we're now seeing a deteriorating housing market. That also is a consequence of the lack of oversight and regulation of these banks and financial institutions that gave loans that they shouldn't have. And part of it has to do with the fact that you had $185 million by mortgage lenders spent on lobbyists and special interests who were writing these laws.

So the rules in Washington -- the tax code has been written on behalf of the well-connected. Our trade laws have -- the same thing has happened. And part of how we're going to be able to deliver on middle-class tax relief is to change how business is done in Washington, and that's been a central focus of our campaign.

GIBSON: Senator Obama, you both have now just taken this pledge on people under $250,000 -- and 200-and-what? $250,000?

OBAMA: Well, it depends on how you calculate it, but it would be between $200,000 and $250,000.

GIBSON: All right. You have, however, said you would favor an increase in the capital gains tax. As a matter of fact, you said on CNBC, and I quote, "I certainly would not go above what existed under Bill Clinton," which was 28 percent. It's now 15 percent. That's almost a doubling, if you went to 28 percent.

But actually, Bill Clinton, in 1997, signed legislation that dropped the capital gains tax to 20 percent.

OBAMA: Right.

GIBSON: And George Bush has taken it down to 15 percent.

OBAMA: Right.

GIBSON: And in each instance, when the rate dropped, revenues from the tax increased; the government took in more money. And in the 1980s, when the tax was increased to 28 percent, the revenues went down.

So why raise it at all, especially given the fact that 100 million people in this country own stock and would be affected?

OBAMA: Well, Charlie, what I've said is that I would look at raising the capital gains tax for purposes of fairness.

We saw an article today which showed that the top 50 hedge fund managers made $29 billion last year -- $29 billion for 50 individuals. And part of what has happened is that those who are able to work the stock market and amass huge fortunes on capital gains are paying a lower tax rate than their secretaries. That's not fair.

And what I want is not oppressive taxation. I want businesses to thrive, and I want people to be rewarded for their success. But what I also want to make sure is that our tax system is fair and that we are able to finance health care for Americans who currently don't have it and that we're able to invest in our infrastructure and invest in our schools.

And you can't do that for free.

OBAMA: And you can't take out a credit card from the Bank of China in the name of our children and our grandchildren, and then say that you're cutting taxes, which is essentially what John McCain has been talking about.

And that is irresponsible. I believe in the principle that you pay as you go. And, you know, you don't propose tax cuts, unless you are closing other tax breaks for individuals. And you don't increase spending, unless you're eliminating some spending or you're finding some new revenue. That's how we got an additional $4 trillion worth of debt under George Bush. That is helping to undermine our economy. And it's going to change when I'm president of the United States.

GIBSON: But history shows that when you drop the capital gains tax, the revenues go up.

OBAMA: Well, that might happen, or it might not. It depends on what's happening on Wall Street and how business is going. I think the biggest problem that we've got on Wall Street right now is the fact that we got have a housing crisis that this president has not been attentive to and that it took John McCain three tries before he got it right.

And if we can stabilize that market, and we can get credit flowing again, then I think we'll see stocks do well. And once again, I think we can generate the revenue that we need to run this government and hopefully to pay down some of this debt.

GIBSON: Senator Clinton?

CLINTON: Well, let me start by saying that I think we know that we've got to get back to an economy that works for everyone. The president has been very good for people who are doing well. And that's great. But it was better for our country when we had an economy that lifted everyone up at the same time.

And we had that during the 1990s. You know, 22.7 million new jobs. More people lifted out of poverty than any time in our recent history. The typical family saw $7,000 increase in income. And we have lost that.

You know, now, the typical family has lost at least $1,000. And the fact is that, you know, I don't want to take one more penny of tax money from anybody. But what I want to do is make some smart investments. And I was the first to come out with the strategic energy fund, where we need to be investing in clean, renewable energy. And I think we can put 5 million Americans to work.

I think we need to invest in our infrastructure. That also will get the economy moving again. And I believe we can put about 3 million people to work, and good union jobs, where people get a good wage with a good set of benefits that can support a middle class family with a rising standard of living.

I want to see us actually tackle the housing crisis, something I've been talking about for over a year. If I had been president a year ago, I believe we would have begun to avoid some of the worst of the mortgage and credit crisis because we would have started much earlier than we have.

In fact, I don't think we've really done very much at all yet in dealing with a way of freezing home foreclosures, of freezing interest rates, getting money into communities to be able to withstand the problems that are cause by foreclosures.

Governor Rendell has done a great job in Pennsylvania. He saw this coming. And unlike our current president, who either didn't know it or didn't care about it, he has really held the line. And Pennsylvania has been much less affected by home foreclosures.

But the president hasn't done that. And what I have proposed would do that. So, you've got to look at the entire economy. And from my perspective, yes, taxes is a piece of it. But you've got to figure out what is it we would invest in that would make us richer and safer and stronger tomorrow, which would help everybody.

GIBSON: I'm going to go to commercial break. But I just want to come back because of one thing you said. And I want to be clear, the question was about capital gains tax. Would you say, no, I'm not going to raise capital gains taxes?

CLINTON: I wouldn't raise it above the 20 percent, if I raised it at all. I would not raise it above what it was during the Clinton administration.

GIBSON: If I raised it at all. Would you propose an increase in the capital gains tax?

CLINTON: You know, Charlie, I'm going to have to look and see what the revenue situation is. You know, we now have the largest budget deficit we've ever had, $311 billion. We went from a $5.6 trillion projected surplus, to what we have today, which is a $9 trillion debt. I don't want to raise taxes against on anybody.

I'm certainly against one of Senator Obama's ideas, which is to lift the cap on the payroll tax, because that would impose additional taxes on people who are educators here in the Philadelphia area, or in the suburbs, police officers, firefighters and the like.

So I think we have to be very careful about how we navigate this. So the $250,000 mark is where I'm sure we're going. But beyond that, we are going to have to look and see where we are.

GIBSON: Very quickly, because I owe Senator Clinton time, but do you want to respond?

OBAMA: Well, Charlie, I just have to respond real quickly to Senator Clinton's last comment. What I have proposed is that we raise the cap on the payroll tax because millionaires and billionaires don't have to pay beyond $97,000 a year. That is where it is capped. Now, most firefighters, most teachers, you know, they're not making over $100,000 a year. In fact, only 6 percent of the population does.

And I've also said that I'd be willing to look at exempting people who are making slightly above that.

But understand the alternative is that, because we're going to have fewer workers to more retirees, if we don't do anything on Social Security, then those benefits will effectively be cut because we'll be running out of money.

GIBSON: But, Senator, but that's a tax. That's a tax...

OBAMA: Well, no, no, look...

GIBSON: ... on people under $250,000.

OBAMA: Let me finish my point here, Charlie. Senator Clinton said she certainly wouldn't do this, this was a bad idea. In Iowa, when she was outside of camera range, said to an individual there she'd certainly consider the idea and then that was recorded. And she apparently wasn't aware that it was being recorded.

So this is an option that I would strongly consider, because the alternatives, like raising the retirement age or cutting benefits or raising the payroll tax on everybody, including people who make less than $97,000 a year...

GIBSON: But there's a heck of a lot of...

OBAMA: ... those are not good policy options.

GIBSON: There's a heck of a lot of people between $97,000 and $200,000 and $250,000. If you raise the payroll taxes...

OBAMA: And that's...

GIBSON: ... that's going to raise taxes on them.

OBAMA: And that's why I've said, Charlie, that I would look at potentially exempting those who are in between.

But the point is we're going to have to capture some revenue in order to stabilize the Social Security system. You can't get something for nothing. And if we care about Social Security, which I do, and if we are firm in our commitment to make sure that it's going to be there for the next generation, and not just for our generation, then we have an obligation to figure out how to stabilize the system.

And I think we should be honest in presenting our ideas in terms of how we're going to do that and not just say that we're going to form a commission and try to solve the problem some other way.

In honor of VP Madness, and I posted this yesterday, if you are pro an Obama/Clinton unity ticket, go to:

www.voteboth.com

Katherine

If you shove messages in the middle of ones with the name Jason at the bottom, how am I supposed to know who is who.

Please folks. Doing these lists is crazy enough without trying to figure out all the aliases, nicknames, and various alter egos.

It will be Arnold Schwarzenegger. He will become a Democrat, and that will sew up the Kennedy thing and bring California. Only draw back is his 'Star Power" threat to upstage BO.

Side Comment:. I do not beleive that Edwards loves BO, he strikes me a someone very interested in personal hygene.

And just for the people: I am NOT hating Obama.
I am not voting for him because he has run a dirty and very divisie campaign. That is why I will not be voting for him! he lied to people for being the Change champion, wehn all he did was run the ugliest if Old politics camapign....

I have a deep rooted cathlic background. That means I forgive and sometimes (LOL) forget. But I will not, for party unity sake sell my soul only for the dems to come into office. I have did that once and I will not do it again!

If we as (former) democrats want to make a stand and want to tell our (the) leadership that we have had it, we got to do it now. This has nothing to do with Clinton, Obama, Dean or Brazile. This has, in my opinion to do with what we as a country stand for and what we expect and moreover ACCEPT!

My dad taught me that one man CAN make a difference..........

Now back to topic,
How are you holding up Prof?

Posted by: Jason | June 6, 2008 5:25 AM

008 5:25 AM

Hi again, Jason,

I'm still feeling a bit dazed after the primary. I feel like I was on a merry-go-round and it suddenly stopped, throwing me off balance.

I feel a lot like you do. I don't hate Obama personally, either. I just know that
I cannot vote for him. There are many reasons. Most of my thoughts
concerning Senator Obama have been expressed in the numerous
posts I have written here.

Since I don't feel like a Democrat anymore, I don't give a fig about
party unity.

Posted by: prof marcia Author Profile Page | June 6, 2008 5:57 AM
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/06/mccains-diplomacy-attack-not-t.html#comment-97565

isnt arnold ineligible?

Jamie........sturgeone the yellow dog democrat.

"Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly?
Because her father is Janet Reno."

JMcC

From TPM:

1992. Three reporters from Arizona described an incident involving McCain's temper. Wife Cindy McCain playfully twirled McCain's hair and said, "You're getting a little thin up there." McCain's face reddened, and he responded, "At least I don't plaster on the makeup like a trollop, you (expletive)." McCain's excuse was it had been a long day.

Watched "Bobby" last night. Still cried at the end, but the fictional aspects about the movie still aggravate me. Wish someone would do an accurate one while still including some of the conspiracy stuff.

Now I remember why I stopped watching Goodmorning Joe.

I see Mika is still waving her pom-poms, and is heard saying "yes", everytime she hears some speaking well of BHO, and frowns and makes disparaging remarks when someone dares to questions him. How can anyone take her seriously as a news persons.

It is too sad watching Novak D on chatrier at this moment...too sad
I hope Gael can make my dat later on....

Now I remember why I stopped watching Goodmorning Joe.

I see Mika is still waving her pom-poms, and is heard saying "yes", everytime she hears some speaking well of BHO, and frowns and makes disparaging remarks when someone dares to questions him. How can anyone take her seriously as a news persons.

Posted by: FryDaddy | June 6, 2008 9:06 AM

Fry: I gave my whole Mika schpeel the other day and I won't go there again, but the whole "Daddy" thing she does with Zbig is just so icky. Of course, I don't have a "Daddy" type relationship with my father so maybe it aggravates me on that note. Who knows...I am probably the one with the issues.

Guess who,

You sure talk about looks a lot.
You must be one UGLY person.

Not very funny Guess who. There is nothing wrong with Chelsea Clinton.

Mornin' all.

Fry, for god's sake just use the link.

He needs military experience? Why? Because McOldFart was military when he was a kid? That's what a SecDef is for, right? The kid has bigger needs than military experience in a VP - and IMO, his VP better be a strong, expperienced hadn with broad expertise in some area that the voters think is important going into the election. List his strengths and weaknesses and pick someone to fill in in one of the eakness areas - and they are legion.

It's good to see Patsi, KC and Fry back in the ranks. Stick around.

Ummm, Fry, and Alter:

John McCain was who made that derogatory statement about Chelsea- not me

just wanted those pugnacious McCain supporters know who they were backing-

I'd never vote for the guy.

Folks, please don't copy and paste massive blocks of text. A link, an excerpt and your own explanation for sharing the info surely get the job done.

Fry and Ally -- Mika's eye rolling shtick is more than I can stand. Awwwk.

And Pogo -- I just have to know to exit when certain posters come out of hiding.

" I don't have a "Daddy" type relationship with my father "

Ally,

If they are over 30, they are the ones with the issues. : )

Sturgeone,

Arnold is ineligible. The VP must be able to qualify as President and he can't unless we get an amendment to the Constitution.

Good morning:

Here is a statement from Planned Parenthood-he has a zero rating- the lowest given in the Senate!!

THE TRUTH ABOUT JOHN MCCAIN
For the past 25 years, John McCain has consistently voted against women's health. From opposing funding for family planning programs to voting against requiring insurance coverage of birth control, McCain has taken extreme positions. He has voted against women's health and has not supported legislation that would help reduce the rate of unintended pregnancies and the need for abortion. This has earned him a zero rating the lowest rating we give in the U.S. Senate.

"Sen. McCain believes government has the right to interfere with the most personal and often the most difficult decisions affecting a woman's health. Most Americans believe just the opposite and, as more voters realize Sen. McCain's ardent anti-choice position, this will be an issue for him in the general election."
— Cecile Richards, president, Planned Parenthood Action Fund

I echo Fry's response to GW. She wasn't the cutest of kids, but she's not bad looking as an adult.

Ally,

I always got the feeling that Mika and dad have a strained relationship.

I do think she should interview for a position on "The View", if one become vacant. That is a more forgiving format for her style of blather.

Posted by: Jamie | June 6, 2008 8:51 AM

I have no idea what you are talking about
I did shove anything and I responded to Jason and he responded to me.

I did not shove anything

Here is a planned Parenthood link about McCain's zero record

http://www.ppaction.org/ppvotes/thetruthaboutjohnmccain.html

Geez, Pats, who could that be referring to? I wonder...

KGC

My apologies. We are up to almost 90 messages since 3 AM my time. With all the copy/paste instead of linking plus all the changing identities, it is really difficult to know who is who.

Didn't mean to upset you. Just peevish this morning.

LAST CALL FOR YOUR VIDEO STILLS

Deadline is 10am Saturday for Trail Mix regulars who want to include their personal photos (your self, your dog, your favorite plant, whatever) in our 3d Anniversary Video this weekend.

Send to cqtrailmix@verizon.net

Include your Trail Mix screen name if you want it identified (No real names will be used)

Nice alert!

This Cartoon Says It All

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/horsey/viewbydate.asp?ID=1769

Here's the kind of stuff a vp with experience in could help Obama in the Nov. to attract issues voters.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/07/business/07jobs.html?hp

Tina Turner said it well - We Don't Need Another Hero. We need someone who has an idea how to deal with complex issues that are screwing our country up.

Let the young women and young men deal with the choice issue.

They seem to think they can manage quite well and have no respect for the fights that gave them the freedom they have

Let them do the heavy lifting. . People like Kate Michaelman have turned it into their personal crusade
and national Naral is a disgrace to the choice issue.

The end of Roe v Wade is not my problem.

I echo Fry's response to GW. She wasn't the cutest of kids, but she's not bad looking as an adult.

Posted by: pogo | June 6, 2008 9:17 AM

And she will only continue to grow into her looks, just like her mother did. HRC is stunning. No two bones about it.

Kathy,

That McCain record is why I won't be voting for him. OTOH, I will not let the DNC that so abused my candidate and her supporters take my vote for granted. This Donna Brazile "well now MI and FL count all their delegates" after that four delegate smackdown is enough to make me go third party unless I get a darn good reason not to. If McCain wins he wins.

Have a good weekend all!

Not Bush,

The push about Roe simply doesn't scare me. Outside of the exceptions for rape, incest, life of mother etc. Can't say I care that much, though I have a great deal of sympathy about some massive medical issues with an infant even if it doesn't endanger the mother. STill most of that is dealt with in State law.

For the rest: Keep it zipped, cross your legs, or learn about birth control. That's what we did. : )
A child is hardly a place to say, "Oops!" mulligan.

Obama should ask Elizabeth Edwards to be vp

I was talking with an acquaintance last night- she is a 70 year olf women , a North Carolinian, who moved up north in 1959. She was telling me about when she went to school, she went past a very small schoolhouse in a mud puddle where the black children went, and even as a young girl, she was very aware in the days of segregation the disadvantages blacks had due to their color, and she felt bad about it.

Her grandson is black, via an adoption, and when she looks into his eyes she thinks about his heritage and what his forefathers endured in coming to this country.

She is a very strong supporter of Obama, and thinks that no one can say that women have overall had it worse in this country than blacks who were brought here as slaves. And she is very happy that we have made so much progress in this country that a black may be president- something completely unimaginable to her as a child.

Help me here. You mean after all that elaborate show, the DNC (newly organized, I guess) is now saying they are going to fully count Florida and Michigan? I don't understand.

lizbeth

That's whay Brazile said. It may not be official yet, but she is one of the officers on the committee, Dean is still chairman, and Obama pretty much gets his way.

Why would they want to count them now and not Saturday? Because that was the very last straw with me so it would seem if they count, they count whether it's now or a couple of days ago.

If he picked HRC he's have to hire a food taster. She deserved to lose because she ran a racist, dishonest, disingenuous campaign and she still LOST, LOST LOST.Jim Webb would be good. He's a military man, former secretary of the Navy and from a mid south state.

Hey! Don't forget that Donna is undeclared! She doesn't have a horse in this race!

The other night Pumkinhead said he wished he were an inner city school teacher on Wednesday morning
so he could see the looks on children's faces when they talked about Obama

What a load of hooey. If he really believed that why haven't they put more people of color on NBC news
Why did they make Al Sharpton their go to guy?
Why did they do all the things they did to further the narrative against Harold Ford when he was running

All these tears of joy over the impact on youth is nothing but hypocrisy in action.

There is plenty that could have been over the years
but nothing was done. Should be tears of shame

Skylark: Wow...how original. You're right. Hillary Clinton is a murderer. I don't know how she is even walking the streets. Maybe you should make a citizen arrest and put her away once and for all.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080606/ap_on_el_pr/spain_us_politics_edwards_4

Edwards takes himself out of the vp race
Clinton takes herself out of the vp race
Rendell takes himself out of the vp race

The job no one wants

As to the VP search--looks like John Edwards
is not interested.

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/6/6/74758/06590

I don't believe in doing anything if guilt is the sole motivation. So are we supposed to vote for Obama because there was a school in a mud puddle 50 years ago? It is the people in this party who are now being thrown to the side who have worked to put an end to that scenario.

I couldn't just place a link to BHO's confusing reply to the tax question as it was a part of the entire debate, and my only interest was to make clear his confusing position on taxes. HRC was firm on her position but not the enlighten one. The enlighten one has positions on many things, and they all sound good until you start looking beyond the words. Why the weak sisters of the D party gave the nod to BHO over the more qualified HRC comes down to just one thing, "THE GUILT FACTOR". They, the D party, have totally dismissed their core voters in favor of the youth vote (who have no life experiences and are voting on pollyanna promises) and the Afro-American voters (who usually sit out elections). When will the MSM post BHO's achievements? Andrea Mitchell's suggesting that because he live abroad when he was 6 year olds, somehow makes him experience in international affairs. He understands their plight. A 6 year old? Well he is the enlighten one.

If Ed Rendell would do it, Obama has an excellent chance to bring in Pennsylvania, Ohio and Michigan. That guy is a man's man and women respond to him as well. I want him to be my "Daddy." (tribute to Mika...nothing gross intended.)

Lizbeth-

You misread my intent of the post- it is that it is amazing that we have come so far in this country, that 40 years ago people were being killed for equal access to voting in this country, and that now we have a black man who may very well win the presidency.

It is wonderment and awe and blessedness that my friend spoke of, that we really have come a long way in this country.

You can feel this way whether your ancestors were slaves, slave owners, or in other countries at the time.

That guy is a man's man and women respond to him as well

He responds to women a little too well. Although the rumors are he only has one girlfriend now.
Rendell has already said no.

Actually, my ancestors were not slaves, slave owners, or in other countries.

Edwards and Clinton not interested.

I thought everyone knew this. Shouldn't let the press control your thoughts. Read or listen to what the Human Being says and take them at their word. This is why this Blog is by and large so bitter.

liz, here's my take. The DNC made it's showing of standing its ground re: it'sridiculous rules, it has realized that a good number of about 18 million of its primary voters think it was wrong, the rules are stupid and the DNC officials are incompetent, that it was punishing their candidate rather than the states for holding their primaries before the rules allowed to benefit the DNC's preferred candidate, that they have royally screwed the pooch and are in jeopardy of losing a lot of those votes and the votes in those two large states that are critical to victory in Nov., so they are trying to salvage something from their screwups, and appearances be damned. I think they are trying to make the most of a hugely bad situation,largely of their own making, and I think they are not helping themselves much in the process.

Jamie....
your 9:26 post to Kathy...... I couldn't have said it better myself..... "if McCain wins he wins".....

I too am sick and tired of being hit over the head with the "Wade v Roe" argument..... I used to care about this issue dearly..... but now as an aging bitter old white hag.... I care more about the issues of healthcare, SS, and protecting our retirement funds..... if the younger women want to keep their abortion rights intact, then they can now get off their butts and fight for it.... of course, IMO......

KGC..... ooooh...... how I missed your endearing terms..... feels like old times to see "Pumpkinhead".......

KGC: I saw him on a couple of shows where he said No, but I still think he might reconsider. He said he doesn't do well as second fiddle. Anybody who knows him well knows that he likes to be in charge. However, he is getting older and, as you say, he is down to one girlfriend, so that may mean that he is ready to sit back a bit.

I'm glad someone mentioned this. Edwards announced a long time ago that he did not want to be VP.

I see Skylark has softened considerably since the chosen one won. LOL.

www.johnmcbush2008.com

ally,

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/06/vp-madness-dem-edition.html#comment-97673
RFLMFAO

I really hope that Hillary does not want to be Obama's
VP choice--although I believe she would ensure that
the dems. win.

Katherine & Patsi,

Add me to the list of admirers who are very happy to see you both back where you belong.

Could/would there be enough support for HRC to go Indy? Although I am a R I am not that in love with McCain that I wouldn't vote for HRC if she was on the ballot. I can not imagine how livid HRC and Bill are over the way the D party has treated them. Talk about being kicked to the curb. But it just wasn't the D party, oh no, HRC's defeat can be directly linked to the bias coverage of the MSM.

Pogo....
IOW..... the DNC = Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, et al....... stubborn!

pogo, that makes me even madder, if that is possible. If the rules are so sacred don't bother to change them now.

I have to say, my main considerations in the voting are not my own concerns but more the future of my children- the rights of my 11 year old daughter no matter what happens to her planned or unplanned, and the ability of both of my children to a clean environment and to travel safely as an American abroad.

I want to see a return of habeas corpus and the shut down of Guantanamo. I would love my family not to have to pay thousands a year for health insurance, and would love to be able to squirrel away some money for retirement which is impossible.

But it is for the future of my children that I am politically involved- just as my own mother who was without a high school education did so for me.

Renee, have you changed your "Vote Dem in Nov" stance - because of all the love you have gotten from the Obama supporters since he won, no doubt? Or are you just expreesing that you are sick of having Roe thrown up as a reason to vote for O?

Ally

Rendell is both a good politician and IMO done a good job as governor. He does like to have fun and media types likes him because he "gives good quotes."

But I take him at his word that he doesn't want to campaign anymore. After the last race for gov he said it was his last campaign.

If you get a change check out the energy initiatives, he would make a great secy of Energy. I'm 100% sure he would not have made the Wen Ho Lee mistake.

What about some of the Trailmixers here? Obama could pick one of them for his VP? That'd be kinda cool.

Renee, the parallels are unmistakeable.

The media keeps perpetuating the story that Obama would have a boatload of "Terms and Conditions" that HRC and WJC would have to "abide by" in order for Obama to consider her for the Vice Presidential post. Meanwhile, Obama said that he would meet with the leaders of Iran, Syria, Venezuela, Cuba and North Korea without preconditions. Yes, apples to oranges and all that, but I still find it amusing. You would thing HRC was the devil herself the way they are talking about how she would need to be kept in her place.

liz - I'm not arguing with you, just giving you my take. I think the rules should be changed before the next election - they are both stupid and unfair.

Fry: I think she should start the National Women's Party.

KGC: I never take any politician at his word but I know what you mean. And he will certainly have a post somewhere...

kathy, I'm wit' ya.

I too have concern for the coming generations.

My mother and father worked to make my life easier.
The difference is, I didn't turn around and disrespect the work they had done. Can't say that for the Obama youth who seem to think they invented change.

Life is tough but I see no reason to support people who are spitting on what I thought was my legacy to them.

pogo, no, no, I didn't think you were. I am just amazed after the big show that they would now change their stance.
And I do appreciate your explanation.

Pogo....
I wrote a rather long post about my evolution the other day to Chloe....
to make it shorter for your sake..... after years of learning and accepting of being a neutral election official.... I became uncomfortable with campaigning for one side over the other as people started to express a desire to vote for McCain should Obama win the Democratic nomination......

I truly do respect everyone's right to make their own choices concerning voting...

as for the other issue..... the extremes of both parties are more alike than they are different, IMO..... both are very intolerant of disagreement....

liz, IMHO, this just underscores my feeling that what I've said about Howie and his leadership of the DNC all along was right. The big problem- his incompetence benefitted Obama, so where's the incentive to dump him and reform the rules?

Donna Brazile is uncomitted? LOLOLOLOOLOLOL

Not Bush: The Presidency has turned into a popularity contest. If the Fist Bump Heard Round the World is any indication, our criteria for choosing a President have changed and will never, ever be the same. I literally read a story yesterday about how exciting it is for the possibility of a President who is "hip". From the instantaneous world we live in where an extra day for Hillary to concede seems like WAY TOO LONG from the caucus pep rally mentality, things have changed. And they will never go back. Hillary will never be able to run in 2016 because I seriously doubt we will ever have a Presidential candidate over the age of 60 again. A highly charged celebrity and youth culture make it highly unlikely. The way we have access to imagery 24/7 ensures that this new phenomenon isn't going to leave us.

Scratch Arnold, forgot he was not native born.

Looking for someone Cheneyesque with gravitas.

Pogo: Donna is "undeclared" not "undecided." She really has been neutral throughout this race (it's hard to do sarcasm on a blog but this is where I would wink and nod.)

Renee, it'sprobaby just the lawyer in me, but does that mean you aren't voting Dem in Nov. and urgingothers to do so? I understand respecting others' decisions - I respect their right to vote however they want, but still will try to explain why I plan to vote dem (see kathy's post above - it sums it up nicely) although I don't like the candidate who'll be on the ballot - I was asking about your stance.

Ally,

Not sure I would go with that tile. Running as a Indy doesn't mean she is abandoning her D principles. In a way the D would benefit from this as she would easily galvanize the D core voters, pick up a number of independent voters, and although you'll hear they wouldn't vote for her, a number of R's are not very happy with McCain, and they just wouldn't vote for BHO. I always liked her because she is one tough independent woman. I am not saying I agree with her on all of her positions, but I agree with more of them than not. Hell I don't agree with all of McCain's positions.

Fry: I was being sarcastic. Sometimes my humor is so dry that it is not even funny (at least that's what my husband tells me.)

Ally,

Well, I'll quote some of the favorite expressions of our 50 year old tweener Briley Cyrus:

"Sweet... cool beans..."

Being wasted isn't wasted only on the young here.

Ally, this was originally a sarcasm emoticon. :-) You use it, I'll know what you mean. LOL works, too - even better if repeated over and over.

Agrees totally with RR's 9:54 AM post.

Kathy....
I would expect you to take that position..... and it is one I admire...

people do change as they get older and care about different issues.....
I remember not giving a damn about SS when I was in my 20s..... now I think differently.... and not only for myself, but for the younger generations as well....

I also care deeply about the fact that I think the next generations will have a lower standard of living......

when Rick and I were in our 20s.... there was no question that we would own a house and have a nice middle class life..... we have no children.... but when I look at my neices and nephews, I feel very sadly thinking about their future economic situation...... I can only imagine what "peak oil" will come to mean in their lives....

at this point..... I don't think politicians are going to solve the myriad of problems that this nation faces..... I honestly think it will be up to "we the people".....

Jamie -- Put me down for Big Brown.

Also -- put me down as a loyalist/vacationer.

Obama should ask Elizabeth Edwards to be vp

Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | June 6, 2008 9:31 AM

wow! i was just thinking that about the same time...universal conscienciousness.
if she is in remission, what a wonderful model of hope for those who are afflicted and those who are their caregivers. maybe a co-vp with JE as understudy.

When Obama ultimately makes his VP choice, I'm sure he'll make the announcement with his running mate from Mr. Olympus.

Tweety will call it the greatest spectacle in politics in the history of the world while getting that oh so familiar tingle up his leg. The Obamanation will whip themselves into a frenzy and there will be much rejoicing.

Then it will all come crashing down in November.

Tim Kaine's office called my house yesterday. They wanted to know if my son and I were still planning to attend the convention in Hampton.

I asked them why they needed to know. "Oh, we just want to get a head count."

Huh? Really?

Right. So they can pack the hall with Obama alternates for the Clinton people who are too fed up to go.

So I got on the horn and started telling Hillary people that we had to go -- to represent and also to ensure that the DNC backstabbers do not get re-elected.

We need to fill all our slots with our committed delegates and alternates.

Elizabeth Edwards is too good for Obama.

Pogo...
I've stated multiple times that I will be writing in Hillary Rodham Clinton for president.....

as for "urging others to do so"..... no.... I'm simply stating what I will do....

is it a "lawyer thing" that whenever anyone expresses an opinion it automatically means they are trying to convince someone else to take that position?.....

I'm not a lawyer..... I'm not arguing for "my side"..... I'm simply having a conversation on a blog....

Walter Shapiro of Salon.com shows not only that it ain't gonna be who you think it's gonna be...

It ain't gonna be who you think it won't be.

"The selection of a vice-presidential nominee is potentially the most important un-democratic election in the world, though Vladimir Putin might disagree. There is only one voter in each party -- and he certainly does not answer pesky questions from pollsters. The entire closed-doors decision-making process would be familiar to members of the Central Committee of the Chinese Communist Party. And the amazing thing about this traditional exercise of the divine right of presidential nominees is that nobody in America objects."

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2008/06/06/vice_president/

Alicia: Good luck to you and the other HRC people. I admire you and others that still care.

I think Jamie should start another classification for her list. The "I Don't Give a Fig."

That's where I'm at right now and I don't see it changing any time soon.

Righteous Indignation

"This entire election has been a sham. An almost comical farce in which the Mainstream Media, along with the ideological Left fringes within the Democratic Party have decided AHEAD OF TIME, who should become President of the United States. In this manner, and with full knowledge and intent, they have decided to re-write history, dismiss entire demographics, and besmirch the reputation of countless individuals, for the sake of political power and the ‘almighty dollar’. They have courted and laid with the ugly specter of sexism and anti-White racism, insulting the very same people who have literally fed them over the years, with their vast economic and moral support."

http://savagepolitics.com/

The only sensible choice for VP is Evan Bayh, although this would reduce the number of Dem Senators by one.
He has been a Secretary of State, a Governor, and a Senator. He sits on the Armed Services Committee. He is a dedicated Hillary supporter. His father is a close friend of Sen Kennedy. He has a very strong organization in Indiana, which may mean nothing at all. AND, he is so bland and color-less that he would offer absolutely no threat to upstage Obama.

Morning all!

GAKaren: Anyone who is an HRC delegate must care. IF the FL and MI delegates are now going to count in full, and if Sen Clinton determines that she will have her name placed in nomination, it means that the pledged delegate vote difference will be less than 70 delegates.
The MSM in their zeal to portray Sen Obama's win as a massive outpouring of support has failed to adequately report this.

Alicia: Not only that but Elizabeth Edwards is a Hillary supporter. And I'll bet a loyal one.

Happy Friday everyone!

Just think after Hillary makes her speech on Saturday , she can relax. She deserves to just chill for a while and I hope she looks back at what she accomplished with great pride.

I am proud of her and her family.

I the other hand I am disgusted with the media, the DNC, the lames rules, many idividual politicians, and "some" Obama supporters. So really, I see the remainder of the election process as a problem created and promoted by others. Whoever wins, wins as a result of a flawed system.

That's what we call democracy - where every vote doesn't count equally.

Renee , you are a voice of reason here. I get that sense. People want everyone here to fall in line and back Obama. We still fight here because some of us aren't willing to do that and some of us aren't willing to accept that.

Jamie,

I ask you to add my "on board the Tardis" option...

As time travel through history via reading is where it's at just now.

Did anyone hear Robert Wexler last night on TV, running his mouth about how Democratic women care too much about reproductive rights not to vote for the Democratic candidate?
Does he ever talk to any Democratic women? It's as if all the men think that one thing is all we know about or care about.

Craig, we need a pundit of pundits. Kurtz just doesn't do the job. Perhaps you could periodically make a video exposing the contradictions and hypocrisy (e.g. 1st they said SD's must reflect votes of their state/district, then praised those who do not). All professions have peer review, some sort of accountability. Be our Pundit of Pundits, unplugging punditry, the last frontier.

Pogo...
after thinking for a minute..... I realize you're probably wondering why I won't vote for Obama....

many others have stated my reason..... I don't hate Obama.... I don't think he has enough experience in government to be qualified as presidential material....

it's the DNC and those convoluted rules..... I want to send a message to them....

hell.... to be honest.... at this point I wish both the Republican and Democratic parties would implode...... both are held captive to the extremes....

for the sake of this country's future.... we need a more pragmatic and balanced approach to our politics, IMO...

burrito: As I've mentioned before, this whole process has revealed that the Democratic Party rules and the MSM propaganda machine are a chapter out of Animal Farm.

Most compelling bit of history from the Shapiro essay --

"Of course, the most fateful veep selection in the last century was made at another wide-open Democratic Convention -- 1944 in Chicago. Truman, aided by Franklin Roosevelt's string-pulling from Washington, edged out the popular sitting Vice President Henry Wallace. The entire history of the Cold War would have been far different if Wallace, who was easily gulled by Joe Stalin, had succeeded to the Oval Office when FDR died in the spring of 1945. Sometimes, it seems, American democracy works best when the people (or, at least, the convention delegates) choose the VIP who will be V.P."

Does anybody else think it's funny how the cameras were all outside the Clinton home last night while the meeting was being held nearby?

Renee,
nah, people become trial lawyers because they like to try and persuade others to their way of thinking. They also become politicians, salesmen, etc. My mom used to tell me I needed to become a lawyer because I'd argue with a tree. As I've gotten too old and lazy to argue about everything, I only argue about things I believe are important (and I believe the makeup of the federal judiciary - at all levels, is critically important to the rights I think are important - and I don't want Bozos on that bus). Unless, of course, my interest is piqued, then I'll argue just because it's fun.

Mags, just out of curiosity, how many MI delegates did BO get, and how many would he get in the first floor vote if the entire delegation was seated? He got no votes there.

If you're disgusted with the dnc and rules (ha!) committee, don't forget to email Tom Harkin and Diane Feinstein. They're the ones who are gonna be working on any revisions. I say we should email early and often and not let up. Make a national issue of it. Course the msm might not want to talk about it because it will show what a hollow victory Obama's is.

I wondered about a a Committee to Elect A Woman President.

I also wonder why anyone would make a statement to the effect that women here have never lived such horrible lives as slaves did. I can pretty well say that some did and are still doing so. It's only in the last 100 years or so that women stopped being considered as chattel or possessions. Some of the native American tribes valued women and female councils of elders, but the rest of the world, no way.

Also, did anyone see my comment about the national championship basketball game between the St Louis Hawks and the Celtics? I can't find it - I think yesterday's comments were cut off.

the MSM mostly identify clinton supporters as old women. even when they deign to see beyond hysterical hags, it's just to include the illiterate racists. no wonder Nick seemed angry in his posts yesterday.
clintonistOS are having it just as bad as clintonistas.

Renee, I certainly understand your feelings. And I hope the DNC hears your message. I could do the same - after all, Obama stands virtually no chance in WV - but it would nag at me - and more nagging is not something I need.

Nevermind - found it. My machine was cutting half of the comments off.

Corey....
you are a shining example of how age doesn't necessarily connote one's wisdom.....

your 10:49 posts sums it up so succinctly.....

geez.... I've turned my usual 10-15 minute break into over an hour....
I'd better get back to work.....

patd. Clintonistos - priceless.

This morning the Senate failed to invoke cloture on the Environmental bill; the aye votes were only 48. Five Republicans crossed over -- Norm Coleman and John McCain sent messages that they would have voted yes if they had been present.
Four Democrats voted against - Dorgen, Johnson, Landrieu, and Sherrod Brown. The last is a mystery to me...I have no idea why.
Of the remainder, Sens Kennedy and Byrd are hospitalized, although Kennedy sent a message stating he would have voted Aye. Both Obama and Clinton sent messages that they would have voted Aye.

kathy,

"Squirrel away some money for retirement which is impossible."

I hope you are not planning/hoping for the Fed Gov't to fund your retirement? If so, you are going to be very disappointed. Hell Social Security will be a thing of the past, and Medicare is near bankruptcy. Gas is high because the World produces 85 billion barrels a day and consumes 87 billion barrels a day (thanks to India and China), but the US sits on hundreds of billions of barrels of oil, more than Saudi Arabia, but unfortunately it can't be explored, no new refineries, no new storage, no to nuclear power, no to coal, speculators pushing the prices of oil higher. All this pushes the price of food higher and working inconjunction with the most common food grain, corn, being converted to ethanol raising the price of bread, meats, chickens, eggs, milk, just about all your staples and it also raises the price to get the food to market. Going green is a great idea, unfortunately the technology to make that a common everyday solution to solve our energy problem is 10 to 20 years away. BTW. Oil today stands over $134 gallon a barrel.

Pogo: If the entire Michigan delegation were seated as the state voted, Sen Clinton would have 73 delegates and uncommited would have somewhere in the neighborhood of 50. Sen Obama would have none on the first ballot.

I'm watching the Red Wings victory parade now. Good times.

maggs, as they say, woulda, coulda, shoulda.

Katheen Reardon

A Mystery Meeting ... A Moment in History
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kathleen-reardon/a-mystery-meeting----a-mo_b_105576.html

last part of it .. rest of the article at the above link:

None of us knows what Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton have spoken about this night, but there is a feeling in the air that perhaps ignorance, arrogance, and cheap put-downs will cease to amuse - cease to raise ratings. Perhaps all of us will sense that the struggles by Hillary and Barack have been firsts in their own right worthy in both cases of praise.

I doubt he will choose her given his recent words. But if he does it will speak volumes about him and his sense of what matters most.

In any case, Angelou's words should give us pause. Hatred is an awful master. Respect, especially among differences, is far more impressive and reliable. Angelou's words, I hope, serve as a balance to so much of the anger, so many of the insults, the cheap attacks and innuendos, and remind us that much is stake -- that we can't leave our futures to those for whom ignorance and hatred are paths to profit and a twisted means of joy.

"You may write me down in history

With your bitter, twisted lies,

You may tread me in the very dirt

But still, like dust, I'll rise."

Fry: The solution to our oil problem is not as far away as you make it seem. It only takes a little foresight and courage. All that is needed is a massive push -- sort of a WWII production program -- to massively produce Hybrid vehicles, and provide means-tested tax rebates to those who purchase them. In fewer than 10 years we could reduce our oil consumption by massive amounts. This would give us breathing room and time to restructure our electricity-generation infrastructure. Oh, and I failed to mention the conversion of heavier vehicles to natural gas and the completion of the Alaska to lower 48 gas pipeline.

Flight of the Concords

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLEK0UZH4cs

"what is wrong with the world today"

pogo,

How can you be so in the back pocket of BHO, when just before the on screen abortion that occurred last Saturday your were a HRC person and were always blasting BHO. This is where voting party line over takes voting your conscience. For all the reasons you wrote why BHO is wrong and HRC is the right choice are just as valid today as they were last Friday before the abortion.

Bettyboo: No matter how many e-mails we send, I seriously doubt that the DNC would ever approve of doing away with weighted delegate apportionment. Especially in light of the fact that I fully expect to see Donna Brazile as the next Chair of the DNC if Sen Obama becomes President. (A change in leadership usually takes place only after the elections).
As to your comments about women's rights ... most people do not realize that there have been free black men in this country since the beginning and that they could always vote on the same basis as any other male. It was primarily (but not exclusively) after the Civil War that the Southern states put into effect onerous poll taxes, reading tests and the like to discourage African Americans from voting.

Viv: Thank you for posting that. When I first read it, in an article that Ms Angelou wrote entitled Rise Hillary Rise, it literally brought tears to my eyes.

Now, here's something that might be of interest. The BBC has been following some voters in Culpeper VA. One older man has always been for McCain. An older African-American woman who runs a beauty shop has always been for Obama.
A younger white woman described as a 'true independent' is torn between Sen Obama whom she fears might be assassinated, and Sen McCain, whom she thinks might die in office.
I know I have said that one's vote should never be questioned and one can vote for any reason or no reason at all --- but I must say I find the younger white woman's reasoning to be a little peculiar.

Maggis: I know, me too ... and the first comment was from a BHO supporter who trashed Hillary .. yet again , sigh ...even when it's over, they still won't let up on her .. sad, really sad ....

Maggiesd,

Why would Senators send notes on how they would vote and think we won't perceive them to be lazy or cowards, excepting those who were hospitalized?

Frydaddy,

I never did hear your take on how The Wire ended. Were you satisfied with it?

Fry, let me ask you - how many applications for building new refineries have been turned down in the last, say, 15 years? How many applications for new refining capacity are pending? And with the price of oil at $134, and no new storage, why is the price of gasoline going up and down in the face of near record crude inventories?

Here's an interesting link regarding the price components of gasoline and the various pressures on the price of a gallon of gas. Of course it is from the govenment, so read at your own risk.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/analysis_publications/primer_on_gasoline_prices/html/petbro.html

Fry, context is everything. Up to a week ago my choice was between HRC & BHO. Now my choice is between BHO & JM. The issues important to me in the general election are not the same as the ones important to me in the primary election. I'm a realist - I choose between the choices I have, not the choices I wish I had. And I am not in the back pocketr of BHO - read my earlier post today re: a vp choice, and you should be able to tell that. I don't like him, but I don't like McCain either, and I don't like the prospect of McCain managing the war, the economy, or the judicial appointment process. Thus, I will not vote for him, and since I prefer that my vote be for someone actually running, and with a chance for election, so I'll vote for Obama. And I have never said anything to the contrary.

"she ran a racist, dishonest, disingenuous campaign and she still LOST, LOST LOST"

When did skylarks start foaming at the mouth? Do we need bird flu injections?

I too get so disgusted by Mika. She is so biased against Hillary and having her father on who works for the Obama campaign seems so inappropriate,
Her father's comment against putting Hillary on the ticket went something like" a disfunctional goverment in exile" Was that it? How insulting to the Clintons. How does Joe stand her?

9/11: With regard to your earlier analysis of Harry Truman vs Henry Wallace ... my grandparents voted for Mr Wallace in 1948. They were a lot farther to the left than I have turned out to be.

Bethyboo
I not only saw it but enjoyed it. thankyou for sharing
The link http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/06/mccains-diplomacy-attack-not-t.html#comment-97549

Good point about the emails if we want to change th system.

Jack

Clinton did not say she wasn't interested. She said that she was not "seeking" the job and that only she spoke for herself not any group actively pushing for her to be named.

I have to meet th' missus for lunch. Later.

maggisd,

The solution to our oil problem is not as far away as you make it seem. It only takes a little foresight and courage.

Really? You said 10 years, I say 10 to 20 years. Unfortunately in-between those dates, oil will go higher, food will good higher. Hybrid vehicles, bi-fuels, hydrogen, electric will be a great welcoming event, but before that ever happens the American public will have to be sold on them, and the automakers will have to be convinced they will sell. Then their is the very real problem of how do we refuel these vehicles? Can't drive a car very far when you can't find a refueling station. What will be the public reaction when the first hydrogen vehicle explodes during a hydrogen fill up?
10 to 20 years

I am now registered as "no party affiliation". Not glamorous, but will be a reminder if I should become wobbly. I want to remember the way Hillary has been treated by the snickering media on MSNBC and the downright meanness of pundits like Jack Cafferty on CNN.

I really think we as idividuals need to WAKE up and consume less gasoline, and stop bitching about the prices. If bitching would bring the price down - have at it.

If we consume less everyone wins. No one should have to tell us to consume less. I see these huge SUV's driving in my town, and a single petite woman ( with way too much attitude) is usually driving...it's a joke.

Mo-peds
Motor-cycles
Bicycles
walking
ride share
public transit
multi task trips that requie use of an auto

Fry: Hybrid vehicles don't run on hydrogen ... they run on gasoline. Just a lot less of it.

Jean: Cafferty makes me sick ..I can't watch him anymore .. he acted like a spoiled child when he'd talk about Hillary ...

" the extremes of both parties are more alike than they are different, IMO..... both are very intolerant of disagreement...."

And they both seem to hate the majority in the middle and would rather lose than compromise.

"This is not about cult of personality,"

ROFL! ROFL! and, uh -- SNORT!

"It will be Arnold Schwarzenegger. He will become a Democrat, and that will sew up the Kennedy thing and bring California."

It cannot be Arnold because you cannot have a VP who does not meet the constitutional requirements of being president. He was born in Austria.

burrito: You are right that no one should have to tell us to drive less. However, let's be realistic. Many towns and cities do not have adequate public transit. Many suburbs do not have services within walking distance. Many people own larger vehicles already and cannot afford to purchase more efficient vehicles.
If we are serious about cutting down on oil usage as a people then we cannot rely on voluntarism. We cannot even rely on higher fuel costs to do the trick because if your job is 45 miles away and there is no public transit and no one nearby who works your shift, then you are just stuck.

Patsi: You reaction is spot on. It just depends upon the personality, doesn't it.

Obama and Sebellius are a good match...good looking people with no prior experience.

Interesting factoid, Sebellius the daughter of a very popular fomer gov of Ohio Jack Gilligan --unfortunately it appears she got none of his ease with the public, sense of humor or speaking ability.

And they both seem to hate the majority in the middle and would rather lose than compromise. -- Jamie

Jamie: That's why I'm voting the way I am -- to send a message about compromise and the vast middle. I am entirely confident that the Democratic majorities in the House and Senate will increase. Good for us. And if we should have a President McCain we are far more likely to get compromise, IMHO.

Pogo,

Write in HRC. Everyone who was so strongly in HRC camp, and voiced their total displeasure with BHO should write in HRC. There is no question HRC is the most qualified of the 2, received the most votes, and if the MSM didn't sit on the Wright issue for so long, HRC would be the D's presidential nominee today. I love how the MSM made it a racial event when WV voted heavily in favor of HRC, but conclude when 92% of the Afro-Americans voted for BHO, they did so because they felt connected to him because of his race, and not necessarily because of his positions. lol

Fry: I don't think you can fault African Americans for voting for Sen Obama. Why wouldn't they? I am happy to confess that my choice was influenced by the fact that Sen Clinton is a woman.

maggisd

Fry: Hybrid vehicles don't run on hydrogen ... they run on gasoline. Just a lot less of it.

I was speaking about the future. I thought that was your point, the future of Hybrids? Hydrogen is one such type Hybrid vehicle that is being considered. In fact hydrogen vehicles have been on the drawing boards since the mid 50's if not before.

"consume less gasoline"

Even more than your car, eliminate as much plastic and other petroleum byproducts from your life. There is actually more consumption there. BTW, airplanes consume a huge amount of fuel. If time permits consider the train.

Petroleum is in so many products it's a wonder we all aren't gooey sludge from using the stuff. Here are just a few

http://www.epa.gov/fedrgstr/EPA-GENERAL/1997/February/Day-26/g4783.htm

"clintonistOS""

male clintonistas

Fry: I was speaking of gasoline Hybrid vehicles ... the type currently available, but not yet in massive production and not affordable for many.
The beauty of a massive switch to Hybrids in the next 10 year period is that it would require no retrofitting of fuel delivery systems. No trucking of ethanol all over the place, etc.
And, since most gas stations currently make more money from their mini-marts (at least here in SoCal), it would like not much affect these small businesses.

There will always be exceptions to the overall answer of consuming less....that means that it is even more important for those who are able that they DO conserve less.

Excuses has gotten us where we are, today.

Maybe they can't cut down on their gasoline consumption. I find that dfficult to believe: they can't sell their gas-hogs and buy something more efficient? Can't trade it in anywhere? Can't ride share?

It takes a personal comittment to change a life-style, that's something very few Americans have been willing to do....so they suffer. We have known about the oil problem for decades.

Jamie: TY for the url.
Upon cursory examination, I think I pretty much knew all of them. As I'm certain is the case in your lovely state, we are regularly updated here about petroleum products ... part of the think Blue campaign.

maggisd,

I didn't say that I faulted them, I was saying the MSM was inferring that people living in WV and other blue states who voted heavily for HRC had other motives for voting for her.
While the 92% of Afro-Americans who voted for BHO did so because they could identify with BHO's race, and not necessarily his positions. So if the suggestion that whites are racist for voting so heavily for HRC, why is not racist when 92% of Afro-Americans voted for BHO?

http://www.emilyslist.org/

http://www.gp.org/index.php

Spend time with people who respect you.

Jamie,
Add me to the list:

Gone - McCain

burrito: they can't sell their gas-hogs and buy something more efficient? Can't trade it in anywhere? Can't ride share?

With gas at $4.00/gallon anyone who could sell their gas hogs would do so in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, not everyone can afford a $24,000.00+ expenditure, and not everyone can qualify for the credit.
As for ride sharing -- people who can do so, more and more. But not everyone can. At best, the solutions available to us as a people are makeshift and short term. But a substantial investment in tax credits toward the purchase of Hybrid vehicles and a concomitant increase in demand would not only benefit the planet, lessen our dependence on foreign oil, but it would also revitalize our sinking auto industry.

The Obama Democratic Party has no use for Clinton supporters. If they did, they would stop the divisive rumors but they are intent on spreading them not stopping them

The Green Party welcomes you. We want you.

This is strictly for the Clinton people.

http:www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESUj1PHyQbU

Julie

Why are people still bitching about Hillary? Get over it, Obama won and he won't win in November.... the Democrats made their bed and they are the ones who will have to take responsibility....for the loss.

Are they going to blame Hillary for the sun setting every night?

Posted by: unlikely_burrito | June 6, 2008 12:36 PM

Because they have nothing to say about their own candidate. It's always been about hating Bill Clinton
(Clenis envy no doubt)

maggisd,

The efforts is to rids ourselves of carbon burning vehicles, not make more of them. Not sure what your definition of expensive is, but a new Honda Civic Hybrid cost about $25K. You can buy a new Kia for about $15K and they'll give you another one for free. Not sure that is such a good selling point as it indicates you may have to cannibalize one to keep the other one running.

The cool thing about the Red Wings parade has been some of the player and coach interviews. The guys they've talked to have talked about the important roles their wives have played in their lives. Encouraging them and giving them emotional support. They've also talked about how special it is to share this with their families , their wives and children. The other main theme was finding something that you love to do and doing for a living. When you have passion and you love your job , it's not work.

Fry: The African-American vote for Sen Obama ought not to be considered racist primarily because 99% of them would have voted for a Democratic candidate in any case. [In this context it ought to be noted that the majority of African-Americans in Arkansas voted for Mrs Clinton].
By the time there were only two viable candidates left, the racist charges against the Clintons had already begun circulating. I dispute the truth of the charges and blame the Obama campaign for using this tactic; nevertheless, if I were an African-American voter given a choice between someone who looked like me and someone I believed was now revealed as a racist, who would I have voted for?

Hi Jason,
Your 10:00 post of day b4 yesterday, was very eloquent. I admire your parents for their support of Hillary and seems they raised a very nice lad. Not too many pople would travel several states to support her as your did...

Patsi: Nice to see you back - miss your feisty posts when you are gone..

also KCG -

Fry: $25K is pretty expensive for some people.

There's another reason to be grateful to her. Clinton's run has put to rest the myth that we are living in a postfeminist wonderland in which all that stands in women's path is women themselves. Like a magnet--was it the pantsuit?--Clinton drew out the nation's misogyny in all its jeering glory and put it where we could all get a good look at it. "Iron my shirt" hecklers. Wearers of Bros Over Hos T-shirts and buyers of Hillary nutcrackers. Fans of the Citizens United Not Timid website (check the acronym). Vats of sexist nastiness splattered across the Comments section of hundreds of blogs and websites. It's as if every obscene phone caller and every exhibitionist in America decided to become an amateur political pundit.

As for the real pundits, thank you, Hillary, for showing us the snickering belittling of women that passes for media commentary: Rush Limbaugh, no Adonis, wondering out loud if "the country" was ready to watch a woman age in the White House; Chris Matthews, Don Imus and Tucker Carlson with their litany of insults--she-devil, Satan, witch, Antichrist, Lady Macbeth. NPR's Ken Rudin compared her to Glenn Close's indestructible bunny-boiler character in Fatal Attraction. And surely a special prize goes to Keith Olbermann for his indignant, hysterical bombast after Clinton's ham-handed reference to RFK's assassination.
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080623/pollitt

It’s a cultural moment that Andrew Stephen, writing with an outsider’s eye for the British magazine the New Statesman last month, characterized as a time of “gloating, unshackled sexism of the ugliest kind.” A moment in which things like the formation of a Hillary-bashing political action group, “Citizens United Not Timid,” a “South Park” episode featuring a nuclear weapon hidden in Clinton’s vagina, and Internet sales of a Hillary Clinton nutcracker with shark-like teeth between her legs, passed largely without mainstream media notice, largely, perhaps, because some of the key gatekeepers of mainstream opinion were so busy coming up with various iterations of the nutcracker theme themselves. (Tucker Carlson on Hillary: “When she comes on television, I involuntarily cross my legs.” For a good cry, watch this incredible montage from the Women’s Media Center.)
Stephen is not the first commentator to note that if similarly hateful racial remarks had been made about Obama, our nation would have turned itself inside out in a paroxysm of soul-searching and shame. Had mainstream commentators in 2000 speculated, say, that Joe Lieberman had a nose for dough, or made funny Shylock references, heads would have rolled – and rightfully so.
http://warner.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/06/05/woman-in-charge-women-who-charge/index.html?ref=opinion

The Green Party is likely to have a black woman as their candidate.

I have no sympathy for people who bought a gas hog SUVs. They are really expensive vehicals to begin with, and basically overkill for basic transportation -unless used in business they serve absolutely no purpose. I would consider it a bad investment, and move on. We all make mistakes, but failing to correct a mistake is the same as repeating it.

btw: they are plenty of effecient gasoline cars that are readily available...fit, yaris, scion, corolla....smart car...

mo-ped the Vespa is nice

No more plastic bags......and Petro products as Jamie said can also help...

We are not helpless. I like the idea of going green.....
looking into Green Party.....

http://www.gp.org/index.php

Fry: This idea of getting rid of gasoline powered vehicles is an extremely long-term solution. By the time the technology is perfected, the infrastructure for fuel delivery is phased in, etc we'll all be dead and buried.
As is frequently stated in the Halls of Congress among the fewer and fewer persons willing to compromise ... "we must not let the perfect be the enemy of the good."

About a third of the people questioned in the primary polls said they would leave the party or not vote for BO

Our own poll - 12 of us GONE out of about 36. Exactly one third...

Craig - if our own poll is any indication that the 1/3 will hold up - how can BO hope to win the election.

All our BO people were saying last night - we would come back about next week. Do not hold your breathe - you can die from that.. Get it - we are not coming back - we are GONE.

Julie

I am now registered as "no party affiliation".

Posted by: jean | June 6, 2008 11:59 AM

Me too, Jean. Although in Iowa it's called No Party. It should be "The Party's Over."

PUMA Party = Party Unity My A$$

maggisd posted: If we are serious about cutting down on oil usage as a people then we cannot rely on voluntarism.

like maybe an executive order mandating a national lower speed limit. might even throw in requiring governors on trucks and cars (excluding emergency vehicles). a lot of gas is saved for every 5 miles less than the 70 mph driven on the interstates.
only a lame duck pres can do it tho... look what happened the last time this was tried.

maggisd,

"If I were an African-American voter given a choice between someone who looked like me and someone I believed was now revealed as a racist, who would I have voted for?"

That would be a valid point, if in fact the other person was a racist. HRC is no racist! So since HRC is not a racist, what you are really saying is the Afro-Americans were duped into voting for BHO based on rumor and speculation spread by BHO handlers and the MSM.

Julie: I saw someone on MSNBC yesterday that said he spoke with a senior official in the Obama campaign who said that they will continue to attract new youth voters. This is their strategy. If they can register as many young voters as possible, it will outweigh what they will lose from the new Hillary Democrats (I call them Hillocrats.) I believe I called this from the beginning...

Bri-Bri,

Not voting for a black candidate won't make Julie a racist anymore than your years of drug selling made you a druggist.

burrito: Personally I always use canvas bags, I no longer use any commercial cleaning products (my grandmother didn't so why should I?) chemical fertilizers and the like. I even switched my painting gear and now use water-soluble oil paints. What I can do, I do do. So does everyone I know.
But vehicles are a major investment. And some people simply do not have the funds to make a switchover. I drive a small car, but it is not very fuel efficient anymore (it is ten years old). I could no more consider the purchase of a new vehicle than I could fly to the moon. Nor could my daughter and her significant other. Some people....even in more affluent areas, simply do not make a whole hell of a lot of money.

I see nothing wrong with blacks voting for Obama nearly across the board and I simply don't believe it's "reverse racism." Anyone can vote for whomever they wish and for whatever reason. Respect their yearning to see such a phenomenal moment in our country.

yesterday someone was asking "who pulls the strings behind BO" - found some intersting information last night.

Obama, H Dean, Axelrod, and Soros are all members of the Democratic socialist party. Marxists- who I think do not believe in capitalism.

Wasn't Soros the money man who hates the Clintons and everything he could to cause them trouble in the 90's... could this be the "strings"

Also - BO has taken over the DNC - he is keeping Dean and putting his own people in to run the details.
And he is kicking out the Lobbyists. Is he going to kick out the 2 or 3 head people that hold jobs in DNC and are also Lobbyists?

Julie

Maggie: If we had not gone into Iraq we could have instead borrowed the money from China to purchase every household in this country a new hybrid (and if it was an American hybrid we would have employed a few folks at the same time).

Fry: Yes...I do believe that many of them were duped. Aside from John Lewis, who is no longer the courageous youth that marched across the Edmund Pettus Bridge in Selma, AL, none of Sen Clinton's other African-American supporters deserted her. Surely they would have done so had they believed that the Clintons were actually racists.

dog,

lol.

The crowd in Detroit is huge today. It's like an Obama rally on steroids!

Well good for them...I would like to see the youth truly involved.
I know how easy it is for me to get them to just to walk the dog, let alone spend their time campainging

I wonder what age they are targeting? In college or not? Working or not? That could well be the most self-involved age group that is able to vote.

Julie -- I think that information you posted about the Obama tea not liking capitalism is in error. Obama very much does like capitalism -- especially Chicago-style capitalism ala Rezko.

A huge growth in the US Green Party would be welcomed in Europe

Obama does not have a good environmental record and his energy policy is not forward thinking.

This is a good time to Go Green.
http://www.gp.org/index.php

Patsi....
it's great to see you posting today... this wouldn't feel like home without you....

Pogo..... ah.... yes, anyone can see you love to argue your points..... what I love so much about you is that it's obvious it is done without malice or intolerance toward the other side.....

"When you have passion and you love your job , it's not work."
Corey.... I certainly can attest to the above statement..... although I will admit that there are times I'd rather do something other than go into my studio..... but the second I start weaving, I'm glad I'm there.....

fry, maggi, UB, and others......
great discussion on cars and gasoline..... I'm enjoying reading it very much....

Aw, Bri-Bri...

I just appeal to your personal interests, don't I?

maggisd,

I do not think we disagree, I just believe everyone should make the effort. No matter what the situation....make it as eco-friendly as possible. If everyone did that, we as a country would be better off.

: )

Patsi - thanks. I was going to do that, bu somehow forced myself not to.

I've been meaning to ask you what's your opinion on warrantless wiretapping

What is your Pal Claire McCaskill'sposition of warrentless wiretapping

FD,

Is there a difference between someone who votes for a candidate because they like that particular candidate than with a person who votes for a candidate because they don't like the other candidate of choice? Other words, votes for someone as opposed to voting against someone.

There is still an excellent woman in the race for president.

http://www.runcynthiarun.org/

Other words, votes for someone as opposed to voting against someone.

Describes every Obama voter on this site. Based on the posts here they are all Clinton haters.

Technology is advancing faster then any government can regulate it. Even if it's illegal, it will take place.

So as client No.9 (Spitzer) brilliantly advised, " nod if you need to say yes, or even better just wink"

maggisd,

"Yes...I do believe that many of them were duped."

To some degree I agree with your assessment, but what has really occurred is the D party has handed the thropy to the lesser of their 2 candidates. Now BHO is being spoon feed the HRC proposal to be his VP. If he accepts it, he'll look weak, and if he doesn't accept he'll lose the white D female voters who feel they have been violated and betrayed by their own party. Even all the R's 527 attempts couldn't have hoped for this out-come. Write in HRC!

Fry, that would be a waste of ink.. Like I said, the candidate I vote for is one who has a chance of election - no one hasa such a chance in a nationwide election. But it would dilute the dem vote, wouldn't it? I'm not into cutting off my nose to spite my face - realists aren't.

VADaryl, Nick and any others in the DC Metro area --

Hillary Clinton will be speaking at 12:00 noon tomorrow, Saturday, at the National Building Museum. The doors open at 10:00 am.
Here is the link to the museum if you need directions:

http://www.nbm.org/

I'm going to try to go, but I have another event to attend across town at the same time. They only have the museum until 1:00 pm so Hillary will have to be on time.

Rezdog: What makes you think that most of us haven't been voting against "the other guy" for years and years?

GoGreen: Speaking only for myself ... if I do not like Sen Obama because I suspect he is way too left for me, why in the world would I want to vote for Cynthia McKinney?

Just asking FD for his opinion, not making a statement Maggi.

Although, there was speculation that many in WV who voted for Hillary, did so not because they liked her but more so because they didn't like him. Myself i voted for Obama because I wanted him to win not because I wanted Hillary to lose.

Posted by: maggisd | June 6, 2008 1:19 PM

You wouldn't.

Rezdog,

Other words, votes for someone as opposed to voting against someone.

You mean they like the way they dress, talk, walk, smile, wave, height, weight, hair, eye glasses, female, male, old young, black, white, nice looking family etc? Well I guess if you care nothing about that person positions the answer would be , yes. But I would think we would not vote on the frivolous aspects of that person, but the experience and well laid solutions that person brings to the table. HRC was such a person and the D Party choose the lesser of the two.

Kwame Kilpatrick got booed loudly! LOL!

Political parties have to start somewhere Pogo. So it is not a waste of ink. It is a waste of ink to not vote for the candidate of choice, just because you think they can't win.

The arguement that a third party vote is meaningless, is used to convince those unhappy with the 2 party system to stay within the existing 2 parties.

From the acorn the mighty oak did grow.

I

FD,

Hate to shock you but some people vote for or against someone just because of their gender and/or race.

Rezdog: I had to laugh when I read your post ... thinking about Dukakis and Mondale and even Kerry ... I wonder if even the most fervent Democrat actually voted FOR any of these men rather than against their opponent.

Fry: With regard to voting for people because of the way they look...did you ever wonder why so many Senators have such shockingly brilliant heads of white hair? I guess if you look like what a Senator is supposed to look like, it's far easier to get elected.

pogo,

At first look you may think that, but what would the DNC do if Hillary went Indy or there was a massive write-in HRC movement. As a R I have been a HRC supporters since day one, and I did so because I saw her as the class of the field, and she had a very real chance of beating McCain. BHO doesn't. But should BHO win, he win because of the 18 to 25 year old voters. Those who just got out of college or left home, or still living at home and lack any real life experiences. Dreamy eyed, rose color glass wearing, pollyanna, group of voters who are looking for someone else to do their wash since mom will no longer do it, and they have found such a person in BHO. he has promised everyone everything and it is all going to be free.

Alicia

I have you on both lists.

Effective immediately, everybody is on Big Brown hoping for a triple crown. You are now free to select and alternate. : ) (I was running into multiple lines of names)

GAK - Take your pick: On vacation (one of these days I'll make up my mind) or Burned Out (Don't even talk to me about politics ever again)

Now folks I'm going to go work in my little garden and enjoy the warmth of the morning sun.

Rez

If Hillary had been the nominee I would have been voting for. If I end up voting for Barack it will be voting against McCain.

maggs, I have to say that it appears you have greater faith in the authorities than do I. By traps, do you mean to refer to the stings (this may not be the rigth word) that get set up to encourage people who might not have committed a crime to become involved in one? I've never met a neutral 3rd party.

Rezdog,

"Hate to shock you but some people vote for or against someone just because of their gender and/or race."

That is not shocking, that is pure stupidity.

CNN

22 little ways to go green

http://www.cnn.com/2007/LIVING/homestyle/10/23/22.go.green/index.html

pogo: Just caught your comment as I was signing off. A trap is a telephone company term. It is a monitoring device that collects all the numbers in and out and lists them. A subsequent computer analysis picks up patterns of frequently accessed numbers. Then and only then human eyes review those numbers and an actual tap may be put in place. It is in the latter case that a warrant becomes necessary.

I agree with Patsi on Hill as VP. I hope he stays away from her and vice versa.

I am confused though with those here who don't want her to consider the position but at the same are planning to vote another choice and/or would be upset if he selected another women. It doesn't ring true. It's everyone prerogative who they vote for but that position is inconsistent to me.

jamie, the chad no longer hangs.
i was, am, and will be a democrat; but planning to write-in HRC and vote straight ticket. how can i allow my party, my history to be taken without a fight...at least a good rant or a few shouts of "remember the Gore"! Please remove the "/gone" and list me as proudly loyal. it is they who are not.

Agreed FD

Dog and Nick -- You're right up the road from me.

Lushis -- where are you?

Anyone else in the DC area?

For a fun look at all the misogyny in action take a look at the video on my blog with quotes by my beloved and missed Shirley Chisholm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirley_Chisholm and Bella Abzug http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bella_Abzug

http://jdurward.blogspot.com

Jamie, Hopefully you'll get to vote against Gramps

Candace Miller (R) from Michigan spoke at the Red Wings rally and was cheered. Kwame Kilpatrick (D) the Detroit Mayor was introduced and he was booed loudly. It was a lovefest in downtown Detroit today. Kwame was the only person to speak at the podium and get booed by the people in the crowd.

Could BHO pick HRC as his VP knowing that what comes with HRC is WJC? With WJC comes a number of question about who funded his library, not to mention all those racist remarks he was alleged to have said, but never did. Also there are a number of stories out that about Michelle not liking either of the Clinton's. What a fun house 1600 Pennsylvania would become.

Late lunch.

UB, let me correct that to "FOR ME it would be a waste of ink". That wasn't me trying to convince anyone of anything - it was me saying why for me, I won't write Clinton in (or vote the Green Party ticket for that matter). Circumstances that I don't anticipate occurring could change my view on this, though. And there are third parties here, the largest of which served the honorable (?) purpose of defeating Al Gore in 2000 IMHO. Don't get me wrong - like I said, everyone is free to vote however they choose, and I respect their decisions - I just don't choose to vote for candodates I don't think have a shot. My idealism has been rooted in the Democratic party for about 4 decades now, and I don't see it changing.

Fry, I don't follow. We agree on who was the calss of the field and who could have beaten McCain. But the DNC will pour its millions into the Obama campaign, just as they will if HRC doesn't run an Indy campaign, and they will focus their efforts on purple and light blue states. The RNC will pour it's million into the McCain campaign and it will focus on purple and pink states. And the election will be between those two candidates. Wasn't it about 100 years ago that TR tried the last really viable Indy run for pres - then ultimately got elected as a republican? I tend to learn from history and try not to repeat it if it hasn't worked for a couple of centuries or more.

Patd

You need to check the laws in your state. Many states say if the person you write in does not have a committee, then writing in will invalidate the whole ballot. I live in WA so I can't do it. Therefor my choices become

Obama
3rd Party

Hi, folks. I have been on vacation for a while, & spent this last week catching up on my work. Is there anything I need to catch up on here, because it doesn't look like much has changed.

Jamie, is that a list of how people will be voting in November? I didn't see a catergory for "flipping a coin", which will probably how I go.

Rez

I'm getting resigned. A lot will depend on how Clinton is treated. The Obama folks pissed me off so totally that even my favorable attitudes towards BO and MO (that is kind of neat in a People Magazine sort of way) have a hard time getting through.

All it takes is one of these talking heads or some Obamaniac and my teeth clench and I find sitting and doing nothing a great idea.

Also they keep pushing race. I genuinely think that race is not or is only minimally a reason for the votes against Obama.

jee jee

It was actually a list based upon an article that divided up the former Clinton supporters into a variet of groups

Bridge Builder - Moving to Obama
Switch - Moving to McCain
Loyal - Write In Hillary
Gone - Moving to 3rd Party
Vacation - Thinking about it will decide later
Revolution - Wants Hillary to run as Independent
Burn Out - Totally disillusioned and staying home.

Dog -- Springfield Mall is the only mall in America visited by British royals -- Princess Diana and Prince Charles visited Springfield Mall in the 1985. Specifically to visit the JC Penney "Best of Britain" promotion. Simpler times...

I think the Springfield Mixing Bowl is also one of the largest/busiest interchanges on the East Coast.

Oh, I guess I'm still on vacation, then.

The ironic thing is, at the beginning of the campaign season I was the one trying to convince other people that they should vote for Barack Obama if he was the nominee.

Now other people are trying to convince me.

"Interesting the Intrade Market Odds show Obama 25.5 points ahead of McCain"

LOL

Remember when they predicted Rudi would win.

Jack

I guess the jobs report finally waked investors up - the Dow is down 320, and the bond market is off, too.

Ouch! Dow down over 300. That mailer going around about the "Obama Depression" could very well be correct, except that the causes are Shrub and this damn war among a whole lot of other causes.

Pogo

We have to stop channelling each other.

I am still for Hillary as VP. If there is anything this election season has taught me - it is that you choose a candidate with your heart (or your gut) - and then justify that decision with your head.

Hillary has already won over the hearts and minds of millions - and she has the greatest capacity to win over more.

Would Ed Rendell bring more voters in PA than Hillary? I am not so sure - and there is no debate that Hillary has a national impact - as opposed to a single state. Advantage = Hillary.

I also think Hillary would be a huge asset in Obama's administration. I like the fact that she would be a huge pain in the ass. It will ensure that Obama is challenged and pushed. And she also gives some instant gravitas to his administration.

I agree with Patsi - that managing expectations will be a big issue if Obama is elected President. And having Clinton's support for his major decisions - like those involving Iraq - will help him against the inevitable attacks from the GOP and the media.

Out on a limb prediction time:

Unless there is some absolutely, hideously horrid scandal involving Sen. Obama, he will not only become President, but it will be a landslide of historical proportions.

Not because I think he totally deserves it, but because I think the ones who might ordinarily vote Republican are going to be so scared that "CHANGE" will be a great idea.

And the Gallup poll that came out the day Obama claimed victory had him leading McCain by 3 points less than Hillary. I'nm not particularly well versed on Intrade since gambling sites are blocked here, but the latest polls show a 6% lead for Obama over McCain, and intrade has a 4.6% rating for HRC to get the presidency via an independent run. Yes, I am going to let Intrade predict anything. What's the over/under?LOL

Ed Rendell has already said that he wouldn't be a good VP choice and that he would say NOOO if asked.

If you guys want a good laugh, call up Sen. Spector's office and complain to his little intern that the Sen. should admit to badgering the NFL over spygate as a way to lower their rights fees to carry the NFL network. Also demand that he declare how much he bet and lost on Super Bowl 39 and why Spygate is more important than judicial nominations or $4 gasoline. I even dropped a magic bullet theory reference and asked if he intended to injure Ted Kennedy while he was still in the hospital.

The phone number is Tel: 202-224-4254 . Don't bother emailing because they kick out addresses that are not PA.

jamie, you referring to my 3rd party rant?

And why should we stop now - I love having company.

I hope Hillary does not take or even want to be VP to BO. I really like the suggestion made by someone earlier that Obama select Imus. Now he would be perfect.

I am still so mad at the MSM for their efforts in taking down Hillary. You must remember they did their part in taking down Gore, Dean, and Kerry. They gave us GWB and they gave us this war. Why does anyone still listen to them.

It is only when GWB's approval rating hit the floor did old KO start his special comments, like he is some kind of hero. I used to applaud him now I could spit at him. I, thankfully, have not seen his ugly face in months.

The MSM doesn't just report the news they try to create it and we let them. How many times did they tell us when Hillary was going to drop out. I wish all of us 18 mil Hillary supporters could just sue someone. Hey, how about Tweety. We could all chip in a buck and get O J Simpson's lawyers if any of they are still alive and sue Tweety. That could be a start. And it is a good thing that O J didn't run for president. He might just win. He did get away with murder.

Warren

" I like the fact that she would be a huge pain in the ass. It will ensure that Obama is challenged and pushed. And she also gives some instant gravitas to his administration."

MSM be damned and fears of anything going wrong, I think they would be such a formidable team that the Republicans would slink off in abysmal shame for even entering the contest.

jamie, nevermind- I see it was the Dow.

Oil rocketed to $139/bbl. That's why the market in in the tank. So to speak.

Someone please tell me if I hate Sen. Spector more because of the following:

1. He is a bitter fuck who lost a lot of money on the Eagles and I am a Patriots fan.

2. I think he is complicit in the conspiracy to assassinate JFK?

3. He's a sanctimonious prick, who just like W. after 9/11, pissed away the good feelings people had towards him for personal glorification?

Please vote and let me know. It's a race between he and Lieberman as who I would rather see implicated in an illicit sex scandal with a farm animal of some type.

Something we need to remember is there is a glut of crude oil. Yet the prices remain high. Why? We are in a seculative bubble right now. a lot of it has to do with the widespread disorder in the world and in oil producing countries. Any thing can happen. Iran could block oil out of the middle east, Nigeria could become embroiled in a civil war. Russia could start a low grade conflict to try to re-establish the old USSR empire.

The Clinton adminisrtation was right when it determined that the most vital foriegn policy objective of the USA is stability. We need to obtain the raw materials and emergy that fuell our economy, to sell our goods and most important the many high income services which are our most competitive product we have to sell.

Jack

But I do think if Hillary is selected - Obama will need to roll out a powerhouse with military background as part of his administration before the election.

I am thinking Hegal, Powell or Webb as Secretary of Defense. Biden as Sec. of State.

I think Biden would be almost any Democratic President's Sec. of State - except of course if it was Biden...

Warren,

I was expecting that Biden would be Sec. State and Hagel would be Sec. Def.

I must say I love the fact that Hagel was willing to call BS on McCain and the whole appeaser thing, rightly pointing out the GHW Bush would be by his definition an appeaser because he brought Syria into the Desert Storm.

Not only did Rendell say he was not interested in VP. He laid the groundwork for a 527 if he was selected by stating on Fox news that he did not have the requisite National Security or Foreign Policy credentials.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/laplaza/2008/06/obama-leads-mcc.html

Obama is leading McCain among Latino voters, 62-29%. So much for McCain being the Latino-friendly candidate for the Repubs.

elp me here. You mean after all that elaborate show, the DNC (newly organized, I guess) is now saying they are going to fully count Florida and Michigan? I don't understand.

Posted by: lizbeth | June 6, 2008 9:32 AM

OF course that was the plan! Once they were sure Hillary's super-delegates would go to Obama and declared as much, then it was ok for the full voting rights to be included. Lovely think, Democracy, isn't it? The more I read the more I am sure writing in Hillary is my choice. Especially when the Obamatrons keep saying on blogs that "to hell with Hillary supporters, we don't need them"... Pretty arrogant statements I think.

Hillary write in 2008!

Jack, you are pointing out something that makes the ANWR drilling crowd very angry - just as do the things I asked Fry about - re: new refinery permit apps, etc., and to which he did not reply. It blows the market forces argument away because the core of market forces - supply and demand - isn't operating.

And frank, no, that's not what drove the Dow down today. Its effect islikely very mild. Speculators make money when oil goes up. Crude started its current price rise just about 9/11/01 (ring any bells) from a price of under $30/bbl. The Dow was at about 8000 then and went close to 7000 arounnd a year later. It has risen 5500 points in the same time frame that oil has more than quadrupled in price. And you think a $10 rise in the priceof crude caused the market to drop 300 points?

Pogo

No I was talking about today's plunge in the market.

jamie, I saw that after I posted my comment. :-)

What's going on with the market?

frank

More than that. The job report was down 300,000 for the month and the US economy needs 100,000 a month increase just to keep up with population growth. We have had two years of manufacturing jobs loss and more than three months loss in construction. When you add the mortgage/housing crisis on top of that not to mention a debt in the trillions owed to China we will be lucky if we get past Shrub with a country.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/06/06/clinton-supporter-says-campaign-aide-looked-to-use-racial-tension/

More evidence of Clinton's use of race as a divisive issue in the campaign.

Speculators are driving the market right now.

As the value of the dollar drops, anything priced in dollars becomes cheaper to by for our foreign competition.

Since the demand for oil has spiked in Asia, they are buying it in droves. For months, there have speculators on Wall Street who bought futures contracts for oil and they made a killing on them and people have rushed to do the same so that they won't be late to the party, increasing the extent of the price pressures.

pogo,
Sorry, have to disagree. The price of oil effects EVERYTHING in our economy. And such a rapid change, and the resulting threat of inflation, spooks traders.

Sure some speculators make money, but the rest of us pay the tab. The dollar went down, job loss report and unemployment report just fuels the fire.

Robert Wexler just on MSNBC saying they are taking the Hillary supporters for granted because "what else will they do when they learn McCain's position on women's issues"

Are these people nuts? How many ways are they going to insult the Hillary supporters. They just don't get it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

"This is not about cult of personality,"

ROFL! ROFL! and, uh -- SNORT!

Posted by: Patsi | June 6, 2008 12:03 PM

I had pretty much the same reaction re: cult of personality. It's what the how Obama "movement" was about.

jamie, you're doing it again.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/06/vp-madness-dem-edition.html#comment-97661

PU, how's the echo chamber?

The plunge in jobs was mainly attributed to the wave of college grads hitting the market. The core employment numbers were in line with expectations. The numbers do show that businesses are expecting conditions to worsen in the short term. They don't want to spend unless they have the business to justify the expense.

While Walmart's sales were up, it was because of the rebate checks and the effects of that will dissipate quickly. All of the rate cuts the Fed made, increased liquidity into the markets, but rather than lending that money to consumers, the banks/investment companies have kept the money to fix their balance sheets. What this means is that instead of jump starting the economy, a whole wave of inflationary pressures were born and now we will see the true impact that the higher gas will bring in the next 18 months.

Don't be shocked to see Christmas stuff out before labor day.

PU: I adore people who throw out the most hateful accusations without the balls to name names.

And as far as the racism charge, it mirrors the food tasting comments from Skylark earlier. Hillary Clinton is a murderer and a racist. You should get together with Skylark and make a citizen's arrest. Get this lunatic off the streets!

It is time for the Obama supporters to move on. He won. You don't need to worry about Hillary Clinton anymore. If you don't want her on the ticket, email the Obama campaign and let them know. You won't be the first and you won't be the last.

"Obama will need to roll out a powerhouse with military background as part of his administration before the election."

Warren -- I believe it is actually illegal to name cabinet members prior to the election. Even though Bush started surrounding himself with a "cabinet" before the Supremes handed him the election.

Patsi, EuroTom,

"Look in my eyes, what do you see???"

Ally,

I just up up the link for those who are interested. I know the race is over, but it was a historic race, and it's important for us to know the *whole* narrative.

Btw,

$5 card to Starbuck's if you can tell me who was sampled in the intro...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTjKWq9Gges

The use of anonymous sources is unacceptable for these types of charges. If you are going to throw that kind of a bomb -name the person who is the racist.

If it is unacceptable for Gordo it is unacceptable for everyone.

Jamie:

I think you are looking a little too hard for insults now. I think it is a valid point to say that McCain's pro-life stance and his position to privatize healthcare will help Obama win over Hillary's supporters.

Of course that will not solve everything. And Obama will need Hillary and he will need to work hard on his own to solidify that support. But the issues are a good start.

anonymous: criticize CNN, not me.

Patsi

You can not "promise" someone a job in exchange for their work or support. You can "indicate" a preference prior to official pronouncement

i.e. I have asked ....................... if he/she would be interested in serving as ........................... This is currently under discussion.

frank, disagree, but the market is always responsive to the jobs report, particularly when - and even Bush now agrees - it reflects a slow economy. And the price of oil - and in the larger sense, energy - has closely paralleled the market, not been a negative predictor of it. If Exxon-Mobil & BP show profits dropping because of the price of their raw material, then the price of crude will have the effect you see, but it's more than a month before we'll see their 2nd quarter earnings.

Time for Obama supporters to move on?

They have no place to go because they don't care about Obama they are just Clinton Haters.

They just didn't really care for Bill and his bad behavior although they idolize RFK and JFK. They think Hillary is ambitious and a woman, but they like Barry because he is merely ambitious.

What do you guys think about Richardson as VP? I don't think it's likely, but what are your thoughts?

Patsi,

It's really illegal to do that? I would think it would be okay to give voters a little idea of what to expect.

Interesting info, even though Hagel and McCain are "friends" Hagel and other veteran "GI's" always had an annoyance with the fly boys such as McCain. I remember Hagel talking about how different it is to see the enemy you target die by your actions instead of just dropping a bomb and speeding away...

What would happen if Obama selected a Clinton supporter and winner of the Congressional Medal of Honor, Bob Kerrey?

PU: Your commentary with the link was this:

"More evidence of Clinton's use of race as a divisive issue in the campaign."

That infers that you agree with the premise of the story and I don't see anything in that story that substantiates anything.

Rezdog: I had to laugh when I read your post ... thinking about Dukakis and Mondale and even Kerry ... I wonder if even the most fervent Democrat actually voted FOR any of these men rather than against their opponent.

Posted by: maggisd | June 6, 2008 1:31 PM

I actually voted FOR Mondale. It was 1984, and as a proud Minnesotan who respected him as Vice-President and our ex-Senator, I was happy when he got the nomination. I moved to Seattle in the summer of 1984 and immediately found the Mondale folks and became a more than full time volunteer for his candidacy. Ok, he wasn't an exciting speaker, but that's part of his Norwegian heritage, but he was SPOT ON for me on the issues, and I was crushed when he lost. Understand I was young and naive and thought he was winning, but yes I voted FOR Walter Mondale ... AND Geraldine Ferraro.

I remember this Seattle Woman who was active in the campaign and the women's movement. I can't remember the name of her organization, but it wasn't NOW, but she was a PRESENCE! She would grab the phone if it was ringing and answer it "FERRARO / Mondale" ... cracked me up. Oh yeah, I was also proud when Mr. Mondale chose Geraldine Ferraro. I was excited for the possibilities.

Ok I'm done.

Warren,

It was the assumption that we couldn't do anything else. I don't know if he intended the insult, but that is the way it came across.

Come on baby, you know what you want to do ... sheesh! Men can be so incredibly dumb.

Don't tell us. Ask us.

is it just me or is there something paradoxical about anonymous saying anonymous sources are unacceptable?:-)

get a name

Warren: He will not pick Clinton for VP. I stand by my earlier prediction. Zbig was on MOJO this morning and said it would be the worst thing he could possibly do and would mean a dysfunctional presidency. If Obama wants us to believe he is considering her, he might want to get the surrogates in line.

bear, explain to me if you will how a glut of new workers lowers the number of jobs available. I see how it could affect unemployment claims, but not job loss.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5sOlpo1TNM

P o U

Richardson? See the traitorous louse on a weasel remark up above. The overstuffed tamale can stay where he is until thrown out on his ear for the latest sexual innuendo scandal.

Jamie,

I'm not trying to be antagonistic here, but I've heard similar comments about Richard from Clinton folks before. Can you explain why you dislike him so much? You call him traitorous, but couldn't he have simply changed his mind about Clinton?

Jamie:

I agree it was not that artful. But I do think HRC will highlight these differences on Sat. - and it will have a lot more sway coming from her.

Ally:

I think a lot of these Obama surrogates are spouting off the conventional wisdom. And during the primaries - Obama has shown that he is not a slave to CW...

Ally

Don't bother with PU
I believe he is what is known as a flamer
Throws out an outrageous indefensible position and when challenged offers his neighbors self-published book as proof of the theory.

bear, if that YT link addresses my question (or doesn't) , I can't open it.

Pogo,

It doesn't lower the number of jobs available, it just enlarges the pool of unemployed workers on the market. Your question does make me wonder how that explanation can hold water since unemployment figures should measure those claims and a person new to the market can't claim unemployment...

I haven't looked at the particulars of the sectors with the greatest job loss but I will guess airlines and financial service companies are leading the way.

btw pogo, which one of your clients did you just bill for that post? lol

Just because this is the song that stops me in my tracks and makes me sit in the car until it is over even if I have arrived at where I am going.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbWULu5_nXI

"This is not about cult of personality,"

ROFL! ROFL! and, uh -- SNORT!

Posted by: Patsi | June 6, 2008 12:03 PM

I had pretty much the same reaction re: cult of personality. It's what the how Obama "movement" was about.

Eurotom & Patsi,

That was Axelrod's entire platform as evinced in four pages of WAPO earlier this week -- personality not policy.

And, as I've mentioned, Axelrod admitted to Peter Funt last weekend that, yes, he had test marketed the approach on the final season of West Wing with the Smits character (who was written as black then redone when Smits was cast).

I feel very strongly that HRC's egregious negative treatment by the MSM and by Obama and his handlers, made it necessary for me to stop watching MSNBC and CNN because of their destructive bias. I believe that a vote for Obama is a pat on the back to Russert, Matthews, Mika, Olbermann and that sordid group of Clinton haters. A vote for McCain is my way to register my utter disdain for the press and pundits whose open agenda is to elect Obama at any cost. I now watch FOX a network I loathed but now watch on a regular basis.

On Feb. 5th primary night Carl Bernstein said,"We {the press} have to bring Hillary down." Today as I was switching channels I heard Bernstein say on CNN that Hillary must humble herself to Obama during tomorrows speech to redeem herself. Perhaps self-flagellation? A reporter from TIME concurred that Hillary must be contrite and NEVER mention that she received MORE votes, as the CNN anchor chimed in that Hill must be repentant for not singing Obama's praise sooner. This only strengthens my resolve to vote McCain.

toast

anonymous,

I've been a regular on this board for a while, and I think most people will vouch for me and tell you I am not a flamer. I was simply citing a CNN article. I'm sorry you and others have a problem with anonymous sources. I, for one, believe that the press needs anonymous sources in order to get the scoop on controversial pieces, but I can also understand the criticism, too, especially with such a sensitive issue.

pogo,
When the price of crude jumps 8% in a day, that's enough to move the market. I agree with you that it doesn't move the market in the long term, but such a move will definitely worry traders in the short term.

I bought a bunch of calls today for that very reason.

I am really sick right now, but still seem to want to read the comments on this blog. LOL.. It's been a hard Friday and I am so glad I have the weekend to rest...

Jamie thanks for listing the Clinton supporters "what to do next" categories again.

Bridge Builder - Moving to Obama
Switch - Moving to McCain
Loyal - Write In Hillary
Gone - Moving to 3rd Party
Vacation - Thinking about it will decide later
Revolution - Wants Hillary to run as Independent
Burn Out - Totally disillusioned and staying home.

I think I am listed as Loyal and Gone... but the problem is, I want to be Loyal ... thus "Write in Hillary" and "Non-Affiliated" as in Independent. I don't see a category for that.

Happy Friday all....

My only worry about Richardson is that he seems to work better in the backrooms than on the national stage.

He was not terribly impressive in the debates and he has also not been that convincing during his televised appearances.

I would be all for him in the Cabinet or as an ambassador - but I am not sure about VP. (Especially since he is not all that popular with the Clinton supporters ; )

I was all for Obama/Richardson 08 at the start of this thing - but now I have my doubts.

The plus side is that he could energize the Latino vote and play well out West. But he probably would not help much in OH, PA, etc.

I do think he would be a great asset to the administration given his international experience - especially in dealing with "bad guys" - but right now my main focus is electability.

(We can work out the kinks after the Dems get in the White House ; )

BTW, frank, from the NYT report on today's jobs report and its effect on the market:

"On Wall Street, stock markets were down sharply in morning trading as investors saw in the weak job numbers signs that the overall economy could remain mired in trouble for some time."

bear, this is what i was referring to:

"The White House and some economists questioned the validity of the spike in unemployment, noting that most of results from a surge in people entering the labor force. Some suggested that this meant that the Labor Department may have miscalculated its seasonal adjustments for graduating college students entering the market, inflating the numbers of those seeking work."

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/07/business/07jobs.html?hp

I want Hillary to be the VP candidate, or I did, til someone wrote that anything that goes wrong, Hillary will be blamed for. That got me thinking that she is in a no-win situation...

Toast:

So you are willing to place America's future on the line to make a statement about the media?!?

How bout you vote for who you think will be best for this Country and throw your TV out the window. (Make sure to videotape it and put it on YouTube so you can get some press ; )

Toast: Yes, the commentary all day has been that she really needs to grovel on Saturday. This will be the only way for her to "salvage her legacy." Honestly, do these people ever get out the studio? Do they ever talk to people outside their group of twenty?

I don’t think the VP slot should be a consolation prize, although I’ve heard in earlier times it always went to the second place finisher. It should go to the person who (1) is qualified to be POTUS and (2) provides the most “political help” for the ticket.

I supported BO and I have friends and acquaintences who are very active in the BO Campaign. The level or animosity (I am deliberately avoiding the word HATE) directed at the Clintons is HUGE, and at least as HUGE as the level of animosity (again avoiding HATE) that is directed against BO by many of the HRC posters. I think this animosity is strongest argument for offering HRC the VP slot. I think it may well be the only path to unity or to victory. And, I believe the former is more important than the latter.

While HRC was not my choice, and I personally do not think of her as a sympathetic figure, there is no doubt HRC was subjected to a far different kind of media scrutiny than BO. It didn’t border on ridicule, it WAS ridicule and far worse. Most of BO’s scrutiny came only after either he or a person connected with him screwed up. Some of it she deserved (i.e the Bosnia issue) but far too much of it was directed at her clothes, her laugh, her cleavage…” For the most part, they avoided substantive scrutiny for the cheap joke or sound bite.

When the history of this campaign is written the news networks, commentators, political talk shows will not fare well – just as they have not fared well in any objective analysis of the scrutiny given to President Bush’s phony build up to the war in Iraq.

So it should surprise no one that women across the United States (and more than a few men) are furious at how this woman was treated. If BO were to ask me (and he won’t) I would tell him not to simply offer or ask HRC to be his VP but to plead with her to do it.

Together the two of them represent the best chance of bringing Democrats back together and then they can work on bringing the country together.

Warren , I live in an area where a lot people are pro-life. Being pro-choice will not be a positive for Obama here. If you view McCain's pro-life stance as something that will help Obama , you must also consider Obama's pro-choice stance as something that will help McCain.

Ally,

To be fair, nearly everyone agrees that she needs to be gracious, humble, and enthusiastic for Obama. I also fully expect her to tell her supports *not* to support McCain.

It all depends on what she wants her future to be in the party.

Although, I don't think it's any accident that the speech happens on Saturday, the worst day to give a high-profile speech. What I take this to mean is that she doesn't really want to do a whole lot for the Obama campaign, but she's also no dummy and realizes that she needs to at least put on a good show. So expect her to be effusive, enthusiastic, and energetic for Obama on Saturday. After that, who knows. It depends on whether she wants the VP, or wants to be well-liked in the Senate, or maybe even if she wants to be on the Supreme Court.

Warren: Give Toast a break. If the situation were reversed and Obama was told to kiss the ground she walks on, you would all be saying that she can just kiss his ass.

Tim,

Interesting post. So it appears like many of the Obama campaign people might have to hold their noses and give it to her? That's disappointing. : (

www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5sOlpo1TNM

frank, same can be said for a.5% monthly jump in unemployment and a net jobs loss for another (5th in a row) month. I think it is reflective of poor fundamentals in the economy, and that is the major factor in the Dow's plunge, but both the oil spike and the jobs report probably had an effect as well, as did the weak dollar, threats of attacks against Iran and strikes in Nigeria - all of which drove speculation in the commodities exchange. Any of that happens, and the proverbial shit will hit the fan. We'll just have to sit back and see what happens.

pogo,

Yeah, the unemployment report dinged the market this morning. Oil in the afternoon.

"Oil prices had their biggest gains ever on Friday, jumping nearly $11 to a new record above $138 a barrel, after a senior Israeli politician raised the specter of an attack on Iran and the dollar fell sharply against the euro."

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/07/business/07oil.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

I am trying to tazer myself from replying to the following comment but I can't resist..

Tim,

Interesting post. So it appears like many of the Obama campaign people might have to hold their noses and give it to her? That's disappointing. : (

Posted by: Politics of Utopia Author Profile Page | June 6, 2008 3:46 PM

Wouldn't you be getting her drunk instead?

Thank you for your lovely words Tim.

This economy if proof that the score board for this administration is as follows:

Osama Bin Laden: 2
George W. Bush: 1

Bear?

I could have this wrong, but didn't she LOSE the election. She has no real power. I know the media talks about this block of Clinton supporters that he has to woo, but NPR had a story this morning saying that already many of the Clinton folks are coming to terms and moving to Obama. I don't think her supporters make up a very big group in the party. Their numbers will shrink. So why would HRC want to get drunk? She either wants the position or she doesn't. At the end of the day, she would have consider herself luck that Obama showed her some sympathy.

Ally:

You are right to a certain extent. But although I have been a big Obama supporter - the main priority has always been to get a Demcorat in the White House this year.

I might very well have some venom left after a tough campaign - but I don't think I would be floating the idea of voting for McCain or not voting at all.

The GOP's Foreign Policy has been an absolute disaster. McCain will continue down that road and further isolate America - which impacts our economy as well as our National Security.

If I was going to do it, I would be going short on crude.

(We can work out the kinks after the Dems get in the White House ; )

Posted by: warren | June 6, 2008 3:36 PM

Ain't gonna' happen without Hillary as VP.

To add a little more to Tim's excellent post

Meanwhile, Obama supporters need to recognize that their candidate is the victor not because he put together a majority coalition, but because he out-maneuvered Clinton. This was a highly intelligent strategy, but it was not a grand feat of majority building. Obama supporters need to recognize that their candidate won not because "the people had their say," but because his campaign out-smarted her campaign. Accordingly, they need to respect the candidate whom they could not beat in a straight-up fight for votes.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/horseraceblog/2008/06/obamas_tko.html

Warren: They are just too many variables in play to determine what you would do if the situation was reversed. The point is this: Let people feel the pain. Let them own it. Understand their disappointment. Twisting the knife (which I accuse you of doing—I refer to others others on this blog) is not a good strategy for victory in the fall.

Warren: I should have said "I DON'T accuse you of doing." SORRY!

Freudian slip : )

Hey Clintonistas,

Write in:

Ron Paul '08

Restore the Constitution!

OK, this concerns me - Where's the bump? We heard - on the tube from the Obama supporting talking heads and here - that once Obama secured the nominaton we'd see a 10% bump in his head to head numbers with McCain. So where's the bump? Will we see it when another 20% of Hillary's supporters who haven't come home yet re-emerge, or have we just been sold a bill of goods?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/latestpolls/index.html

Oh, and PU, they'd better focus on the Hillary supporters who haven't come to terms with Hillary's loss and have yet to move toward Obama. Some have - like myself (and for purely practical reasons as in my head says yes but mny heart says no). Without them McCain will become president.

Lynn C

Good post. As I said, I've read/heard a couple reports that indicate most of HRC's supporters are moving to Obama. So, I think Obama's going to need some time to see what the stats are like. If enough of the HRC peeps are still sitting on the fence, he may need to consider her as VP, but if he picks up enough support, I don't think she's got a ticket for the train.

Ally:

I totally agree - and I stopped taking shots at Clinton supporters after NC.

And I have always urged Clinton supporters to listen to Obama - instead of some of his rabid supporters.

flatus, probaly a good idea.

Warren:

The problem is some of them are just nuts. To be frank about it.

P o U

"Can you explain why you dislike him so much? You call him traitorous, but couldn't he have simply changed his mind about Clinton? "

It is a case of you dance with the one who brung you and weaseling on a deal. Now pay attention to the weasel words

Clinton side "He said he would not endorse anyone"

Richardson "I never said I would endorse Clinton"

Richardson endorsed Obama.

The Clintons made this man. Without them he never would have been governor of NM. If he could not support her, then he should have kept his mouth shut and lived up to his promise.

He has proven to be a turncoat and if he will betray one, he will betray another.

Any politician that has millions of supporters will also have plenty of nuts.

The worst part of it is that the nuts tend to be the most vocal and often drown out all of the reasonable people...

But don't let these nuts make you lose sight of the prize.

Although Obama is not a fan of the politics of fear - I have a lot of fear about what will happen if we have 4 more years of Republican leadership in the White House.

PU, you hear what you want to hear and assume Clinton wants a seat on that train. I think what you're hearing is wrong, and that VP is not her destination. BTW, Warren seems to have a better idea about how to attract those Clinton supporters. I'd suggest you try it on for size.

And with that, I'm done for the weekend - hot as hell here, so it's likely to be a quiet one.

The Kwame Kilpatrick Parade Story:

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080606/NEWS01/80606091&GID=xyqC3/uZjntJIAdrEvZIRxpbsEKyYyV4yDh2NgqS2Ds%3D

Warren: Very true.

Jamie, I like to watch this video when Richardson's name comes up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsvJyJsoBLY&feature=related

P o U,

I figured my tazer comment would lead people to read that comment as a veiled "get Hillary neked" type post...

I figured that would be blindfolding is better than holding one's nose...

"hot as hell here"

The thermometer here says 100.8--that's a tad warm for early June. Very bad for some crops.

I could have this wrong, but didn't she LOSE the election. She has no real power.

PoU
She has half the delegates in the up coming convention. I think the party platform could easily look like a HRC/edwards platform. I can see party rules following the Clinton wishes. and while Dean is busy trying to turn everything over to the Obama folks, the Clinton faction and the DLC are going to have strong influence in the party structure..

Jack

Political Theater, folks. Rahm Emmanuel will be the next president of the U.S., regardless of who is at the 'top' of the ticket.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/06/vp-madness-dem-edition.html#comment-98023

Like apples, the nuts don't fall too far from the tree.

Enviromental concerns:

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080606/NEWS05/806060413

Geez, Warren, aren't you going to tell me Obama has no nuts?

Hey Nick, Dog, Lushis -- all other DC area people I might have missed -- If you want to attend the Hillary event tomorrow at the National Building Museum you must download tickets.

The tickets are free -- but I understand they are going fast.

A limited # of tix remain for tomorrow's event.
www.hillaryclinton.com/june7

Tim

" It should go to the person who (1) is qualified to be POTUS and (2) provides the most “political help” for the ticket.

The whole rationale in the early days was that the person receiving the second most votes was the person that the electors felt was qualified to be POTUS in the absence of the first place finisher.

Nothing has really changed.

The whole rationale in the early days was that the person receiving the second most votes was the person that the electors felt was qualified to be POTUS in the absence of the first place finisher.

Nothing has really changed.

Posted by: Jamie Author Profile Page | June 6, 2008 4:41 PM

Jamie,
Good point, however this had problems that were addressed with the twelfth amendment.

The "What Will Clinton Supporters Do Now List" was mine from the first post yesterday list -- not from an article. I deem it open use -- but credit is nice. ((( thanks)))

since SC is almost a lock for mccain, I revise my yellow dog democrat status in that I'll be writing in Hillary if that's possible here.....it's the only way my vote has any meaning at all given SC politics....so I dont know where that falls on the list......

"To be fair, nearly everyone agrees that she needs to be gracious, humble, "

"At the end of the day, she would have consider herself luck that Obama showed her some sympathy. "

Un-frigging-believable. Utopia -- these may be two of
the most offensive posts I've ever seen. If I had a daughter in one of your classes (unless you are lying...) I would sue the college.

Alicia.... you are a genius...... how's that for credit..... :0)

ct... I was the one who suggested Imus as Obama's VP and it was a J-O-K-E....

Warren... it's good to see you posting again too.....

right now it's so cold up here in the northeast that people attending the Red Sox game in Fenway tonight will need their winter jackets...... but the weather people tell us it will be in the 90s starting tomorrow.....

I'll say goodbye and good luck for the weekend.....
although I may check in to see if Craig has posted the new "we are all in this together" video....

patsi.....some peoples just got no soul......just go all day slapping off anything which enters their little brainses........

We'll never really know what goes on with these politicians behind closed doors even when they tell us. After all, they're politicians.

tt

Hey Jack: Do you have any whiskey recommendations? I've been a scotch guy for the longest time, but this afternoon I had some Maker's Mark, which I've had many times before, but is quite tasty. I know MM is a bourbon, but do you have any specific brands you enjoy more than others?

hey all, i have begun work on our 3d Anniversary video and have tons of pictures -- but don't want to leave anyone out -- so send your self pics by 10am tomorrow to cqtrailmix@verizon.net

and by the way, i finally started a Facebook page -- be my friend and i'll be yours: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1307727477

Un-frigging-believable. Utopia -- these may be two of
the most offensive posts I've ever seen. If I had a daughter in one of your classes (unless you are lying...) I would sue the college.

Posted by: Patsi

My comments were not intended to be offense. I was merely talking about the political reality of the situation. I made no judgements here.

Patsi, on your second point: it's good to know you have absolutely no understanding of this newfangled concept the youngsters are calling "free speech.'

Craig: Glad to see you've joined facebook! Just put in a friend request.

Who I vote for is now irrelevant, anyway. This state will now definitely go red in the fall. So why even bother.

Craig, good facebook pic.

tt

jeejee: whereabouts do you live? i'm in florida, which is kind of a weirdly purple state. bleh.

"newfangled concept the youngsters are calling "free speech."

PoU
That is funny. and the joke is mostly on you.

Jack

Who I vote for is now irrelevant, anyway. This state will now definitely go red in the fall. So why even bother.

Posted by: jeejee Author Profile Page | June 6, 2008 5:37 PM

jeejee,
Who you vote for is not irrelevant. Think Gore 2000.

I am in KY, which hasn't been blue since Bill Clinton's two terms, and consistently re-elects both Mitch McConnell & Hal Rogers.

My partner is up in Kentucky visiting her parents right now, so I'm constantly getting the scoop on the political layout. But as Frank just said, you never know, things could always change. Even if you're in a red state, your voice always matters!

Hillary will do what she wants. Or did you fail to notice who came to HER house at HER invitation.

One thing You can bet the farm on. She will not behave as either Ted Kennedy nor Jesse Jackson.
I think that is the Obama camps biggest fear. Because they know they would without hesitation.

Jack

Jeejee

McConnell is not in too good of shape right now. I think you neighbors are pissed. There was a poll out last month that had HRC carrying the state while Obama would lose with his vote only getting in the high 30's.
So vote it may be close on the down ticket.

Jack

Jack: We disagree on this. But, seriously, given your moniker, do you have any recommendations on good whiskeys?

baloney

Obama/ Ron Paul would be a hell of a unity ticket...

In light of today's economic news, you guys should research why our dollar isn't worth the paper on which it's printed, how the fed is undermining our economy with every interest rate cut, and the only guy who has the guts to talk about it- Ron Paul.

Now that Clinton is out, I can vote wholeheartedly for Ron Paul, knowing their will be no real difference between a McCain or an Obama administration.

I'd like to believe that Obama would shake up D.C., but after seeing the DNC elite coalesce around him, I'll be willing to bet he is having strings sewn to his shoulders as we speak. I'm reminded of the old adage,

"If it sounds too good to be true..."

Let's hope I'm wrong. It's rare that I am, sad to say.

If people wanted us to vote for Barack Obama in the fall, they should have approached it a little differently.
Maybe by not A) calling everyone a racist & B)saying we were all old, uneducated bible-hugging gun-loving hicks. Because, guess what, we actually have schools, the internet, & cable tv. There are a whole lot of pissed-off people around here, not just the women, everybody. Except the Republicans, of course. They're very happy.

champ,

the problem with ron paul is that though he appears to be sane, he's actually quite nuts. if you do a little bit of research you can find old newsletters he used to send out to his supporters which contain a lot of racist messages. he also wants to eliminate the IRS entirely. though he's a great voice for the republican debate, he's a dangerous wolf in sheep's clothing (well, what i am saying. not really, he's totally unelectable and thus practically nonexistent). though he may be fine on some social issues, he also wants no government regulation of capitalism.

From the article you posted:

"I am the anti-racist because I am the only candidate -- Republican or Democrat -- who would protect the minority against these vicious drug laws," he said.

"Libertarians are incapable of being a racist, because racism is a collectivist idea." -Ron Paul

Would you hold Craig Crawford responsible for all the garbage that is posted here?

Jack, I didn't say I wasn't going to vote against Mitch.
I voted for Lunsford in the primaries, who has the best chance of beating him. But people here still say it won't be much of a contest.

jeejee wrote:

If people wanted us to vote for Barack Obama in the fall, they should have approached it a little differently.

Ok. Who are the "people" in this quotation, and who is "they?"

Because I can tell you that none of what you're saying came out of the official Obama camp. Maybe some of his internet supporters said things that came close to what you're saying, but Obama never addressed any of those things. The best you can get him on is his "bitter" comment, which was totally taken out of context, and is really the same thesis that Thomas Frank presents in his book "What's the Matter with Kansas." Trust me, I don't think Obama's people disrespect you.

Calling someone 'nuts' or 'crazy' is just a way to dismiss someone out-of-hand without debating them on merit. The IRS is an unconstitutional body, as is the Fed. The Fed 'prints' money by lowering interest rates and creating more money, devaluing the dollar, and is one of the reasons oil prices are so high right now, because oil is traded in dollars on the commodities exchanges.

Obama is more likely a wolf in sheep's clothing, he represents no dramatic policy difference form HRC or even McCain, and his campaign is more of a cult-of-personality than one of actual substance. Like I said, I hope Im wrong, but what kind of renegade change-agent has the entire power base solidified behind him? A false change-agent.

We are a capitalist society. The more government gets involved, the more they mess things up. The point paul makes is that the market is more efficient, 'smarter', if you will, than a bunch of policy wonks in a "think-tank".

He's only totally unelectable because the American people prefer their information in sound-bite sized doses, and love the entertainment of false political theater, like we just witnessed for the past 4 months.

PU, it was quite a few of his internet supporters, from various blogs, & the media, mainly nbc affiliates, and of course fox.

I don't have time to go into any more details now, I have to go to my second job, which is taking care of my mother. Oh, & I need to shake some locusts out of the pear trees too while I'm there. Nasty, ugly things, they are. You all have a good weekend.

"Trust me, I don't think Obama's people disrespect you. "

Bull. You are a bunch of arrogant pricks -- not to mention first class oinkers. MaybeHillary should just bend down and wash his Holy feet and apologize for having the nerve to run against him in the first place.

Socialism is the credo of the naive

A curtsy?

How about you try some courtesy?

I bet your dad would, Bri-Bri.

McCain would like to see a man on Mars
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080606111510.5jnz56gu&show_article=1

Yeah, I know which one he'd like to see there too.

A curtsy?

How about you try some courtesy?

I bet your dad would, Bri-Bri.

Which Dad?

champ,

Thanks for taking what I had to say seriously, but we definitely disagree on what should be done. I happen to think that the federal government is important precisely because they represent the only entity that *can* regulate the same capitalism that increases energy costs, further extends the income gap, exploits workers, institutionalizes sexism, destroys the environment without consequence, wipes away local business, etc. I could go on and on. The thing about Paul is that he plays a good game rhetorically, but when you get down to it he's a really bad person. He may be better than the other Republican candidates, but so is a 57 year old rapist holding guard over a crack cover containing 12-year olds.

crack cover should be: crack cave, by the way.

but so is a 57 year old rapist holding guard over a crack cover containing 12-year olds.

What does that mean?

Warren
You did change how you treated us Clinton supporters and Im Grateful.You also said to Toast when voting think about whos best for the country well for me I don't Trust Sen.Obama or Sen.McCain.I realize Sen.Obama is closer in policy to Sen. Clinton but without Trust its a no Vote for me or third party.I understand Toast and Jamie because these Disrespectful Punduts and some Rabid Obama supporters just turn me off from even listening To Obama and without listening you can't Build Trust.

even with the correction I have no idea what that sentence means or how it makes any sense in your argument.

3ppmx6

Obama is a lot of people's second choice

Aw, Bri-Bri --

It will be a good life however long it lasts

Imagine a whole life raising a child... never leaving her... watching her overcome abandonment and illness without her ever suffering any narcissistic damage...

Imagine watching her become a sought after writer and artist...

Imagine doing the things yourself you never dreamed you could... at first on a small scale... then getting produced all over Europe and America... imagined getting nominated for your first Pulitzer Prize... and then imagine getting nominated again...

Imagine stepping into theater, opera and film because, well, there really was no other way to go as a single parent who needed to be at home first time...

Imagine having a parent who would give up a good career so that you could not only hear that you're loved but feel and live it constantly...

Imagine being sick and in pain without being drugged...

You'd have to imagine all of that.

Because it takes commitment, love and guts to live it.

Also a sense that you are loved and worth loving no matter what happens.

The time I will have will be precious.

In fact, I will have all the time I need -- and not one second more.

champ:

I'd much rather hang out with conservatives than libertarians. at least they know what they want.

Tony:

I believe the candidate you're referring to is Senator Barack Obama.

Tony:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_vote_count.html

The only way HRC has the most votes is if you throw out a lot of states, including all of the caucuses.

PoU
If your taliking about the Undemocratic S.D.s votes well then yes that would be Sen.Obama.Im speaking of popular votes so lets give Sen. Clinton some Respect and credit!! Humility is a virtue!!!

Tony:

I am humble. I think it's amazing that a candidate like Barack Obama, that everyone discounted, won the election. I'm not trying to be arrogant here when I'm talking about democrats, I'm merely trying to get to the bottom of HRC's argument, which is full of holes. The only way she wins the popular vote is by her own "magic" math, which few people outside her campaign recognize.

Nick:

Please take the time to read:

http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/political-fix/political-fix/2007/10/obama-on-cheney-likened-to-crazy-uncle/print/

Wherein Obama says: “Everybody’s got a crazy uncle in the attic. A black sheep in the family."

Obama, Black Liberation Theology, and Karl Marx

"When I visited Obama's church, still under the directorship of Jeremiah Wright, I came away with far more questions than answers, and one thing leading to another, have spent the last several months trying to fathom how Marxist political philosophy wound up emblazoned with a cross and a pulpit, and pretending to rely on the Bible for its authority".

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/05/obama_black_liberation_theolog.html

Meanwhile, Obama supporters need to recognize that their candidate is the victor not because he put together a majority coalition, but because he out-maneuvered Clinton. This was a highly intelligent strategy, but it was not a grand feat of majority building. Obama supporters need to recognize that their candidate won not because "the people had their say," but because his campaign out-smarted her campaign. Accordingly, they need to respect the candidate whom they could not beat in a straight-up fight for votes.

Posted by Jay Cost at 12:00 AM | Send to a Friend | Print | Permalink
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http://www.realclearpolitics.com/horseraceblog/2008/06/obamas_tko.html

reposting from earlier. Worth repeating whenever some Obama supporter starts acting like Obama did anything but game the system

Morals are subjective. Others would argue that government has a moral obligation to protect unborn fetuses. Let's do everybody a fovor and keep morality out of governement.

Market advocates would assert that government is the least effective body to take care of those who need help. I do believe in government interevention to mitigate corruption and prevent monopolies, but that's about it.

As far as taxes, I'm a sick of losing half of every dollar I make so that the government can wage unjustifiable wars in my name and create huge bureaucracies rife with corruption and inefficiency. If our tax dollars were spent wisely and and with respect to genuine need rather than just funneling money to the friends of the powerful with influence to gain contracts, then maybe I'd be a little happier around mid-april. Doesn't change the fact that the IRS is an unconstitutional body.

States rights are the basis of Federalism itself, and while yes, there are instances when consistency of law across all states is in the peoples best interests, the consolidation of power is results in less autonomy for 'the little guy' of whom you speak. As a New Yorker, you should have as little influence on how an Oklahoman lives, and vice versa.

" However history has shown us time and time again..." Time and time again, huh? Well how about providing just ONE example then.

The only thing I will rest assured of, is that regardless of what party wins the general election, we the people will lose more and more individual rights every day.

True conservatives are libertarians, PU. The Neo-Con phenomenon is a bastardization of core Republican principles and resembles The old Democratic party more than anything conservative. They just say they hate gay and love babies and jesus to get elected, brah.

Updated June 4, 2008 - 12:36 PM EST

Clinton 17,802,135

Obama 17,501,599

http://abcnews.go.com/politics

I've got to run, too. take care!

I'm right behind, you dude.. we can debate another time. I always game. All in good fun, and the fate of the world just might hang in the balance...

peace.

Howie Kurtz is having a rough day over at WowPoo.com with his little column about how the media really doesn't want Hillary to go away:

( Note: The original headline on this column was "Hey, Ho, Please Don't Go," which is, of course, a play on Vietnam-era antiwar chants that often began "Hey Hey, Ho Ho." It frankly never occurred to me that some readers would seize on the "ho" and view that as a disparaging remark about Hillary Clinton. As someone who has criticized some of the sexist treatment she has received, I regret if anyone took that the wrong way.)

Although since Kurtz is often referred to as Howie the Ho I don't buy his excuse. Kurtz is a member of the Gooper Trophy Spouses Club. Something he always failed to mention, even when commenting on his wife's work as Gooper megaphone.

From Firedoglake
Why it is important for Obama to reach out to the core of the Democratic Party

"Maybe it's because I live in the heart of the blue collar rust belt and mining belt territory -- or that our local Dem organization is fairly old and settled in their ways -- but it's a big problem here and among any number of family members and friends with whom I have spoken who have been staunch Democrats and who just don't feel comfortable yet that they even know Obama. He needs an intro to these folks -- Obama's recent appearance in Appalachia is a great start. Especially if he keeps coming back the way John Edwards did in the primary and Bobby Kennedy did in 1968. And they need to know he cares about what's in their hearts, and what isn't in their wallets after 8 years of George Bush failures. His just announced "Change That Works For You" events are a great start on that economic conversation."
http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/06/election-2008-comfort-levels-race-and-obama/#more-25402

You may have some shopping to do. The official drink of The Belmont Stakes (The Belmont Breeze) is a little complicated and the most expensive of the Triple Crown drinks (about $10 at the track)

Official Drink: The Belmont Breeze based on an old, Colonial recipe for whiskey punch: "One of sour, two of sweet, three of strong, four of weak

INGREDIENTS:
1 1/2 oz. Seagrams 7
3/4 oz. Harveys Bristol Cream Sherry
1/2 oz. Fresh Lemon Juice
1 oz. Simple Syrup
1 1/2 oz. Fresh Orange juice
1 1/2 oz. Cranberry juice
1 oz. of soda
1 oz. of 7up
fresh strawberry
lemon wedge
(you may substitute 1 oz. of Sweet & Sour mix for the lemon juice and simple syrup although fresh ingredients are best)

PREPARATION:

Shake first 6 ingredients with ice and top with half 7up and half soda, approximately one ounce of each. Garnish with fresh strawberry, a mint sprig, and a lemon wedge.

For anyone who's interested in the nondemocratic Democratic Party system of delegate selection, the rules are at this site.

http://www.demconvention.com/delegate-allocation/

I have not yet been able to determine how many additional delegates Sen Obama was awarded on the basis of the weighting system, but so far, I have been able to determine that once FL and MI are reinstated, his pledged delegate lead (this would not count delegates thrown to him by any other candidate) is about 60.

Jamie: Thanks for the recipe. Have you ever had one? It really doesn't sound all that great to me ... I kinda like simple drinks ... a little lemonade, a lot of coconut rum ... a little grapefruit juice, a lot of vodka ... that type of thing.

Did anyone happen to catch the fatuous remark that Chris Matthews made tonight about the death of RFK? That it was sadder than the death of JFK.
About once a week, I tune in to Matthews just to see if he's still insane ... and I am never disappointed.

maggisd

http://www.sweetjesusihatechrismatthews.blogspot.com/

Maggie

It is pretty much a variation on any whiskey punch that might have been made in the colonies : ) I prefer ginger ale to 7 Up. Play around until you get something you like. Taste testing is more than half the fun.

KGC

There is even more Chris to hate on my blog today.

Julie,
I am just scanning through some of todays posts, and want to say I agree with you about 911 and Jason. They are really impressive people.

Oy Vey

http://jdurward.blogspot.com/2008/06/what-sexism-where.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbbxA8a_M_s

everyone have fun

Diplomacy and Disunity
A Meeting Starts The Process -- But Clinton's Moves Remain Critical
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/TheNote/story?id=3105288&page=1

eeewww chris isn't dreamy....................

Ice cream is dreamy

Jamie:
So, I signed the petition ... it's something, if only a little something.

burrito: You are right. Ice cream is the world's most perfect food.

At least i know one thing to be true. : )

I agree! I agree! and off to the refrigerator he went!

The Arrogance of Obama's Leftist Supporters
It's interesting that the main people pushing Obama in the name of unity and civility are the same ones brutally trashing Hillary (and Bill) Clinton.

http://www.creators.com/opinion/david-limbaugh.html

chloe,

In formal terms, they're known as the Assholier Than Thou.

Here's what I saw printed on a van tonight:

SUPERIOR SPRINKLERS....WE GET YOU WET.

Okay this is my final take ...there are too many jerks ( assholes) with power, that make it difficult for the rest of us to matter.

I am sorry, but I believe this is true, and the only way to counter it is with solidarity which will not happen this year because the black women will blindly vote Obama. ( why wouldn't they)

Women have never really supported each other. That is the only reason we fail.......we have the power, we just cant get it together.

just my opinion.....again : )

This is funny.
All the networks sent a letter of protest to the Obama campaign for loading a bunch of reporters on a plane bound for Chicago last night, while BO stayed behind to have meeting with Hillary.
(this was on running botton of fox news )
It would be nice if they would retaliate by printing/saying something about him instead of kissing up as usual.

Julie

Life is short ........then you die......if you do one worth while thing in between.......good for you

Former House Republican Leader Tom DeLay (Texas) called Barack Obama a "Marxist" on the Mike Gallagher radio show Thursday.

Explaining that Obama clinching the Democratic nomination is a good thing for John McCain, DeLay said Obama's "weakness" is that "nobody knows him."

The radio host agreed ...saying Obama is "desperately trying to cover up what seems to be the kind of old school Marxist radical liberal failed ideology."

http://briefingroom.thehill.com/2008/06/05/delay-unless-obama-proves-me-wrong-he-is-a-marxist/

burrito: An article by Chuck Todd today (in which he omits to mention many salient factors) about why Hillary lost (I use the word advisedly) ... he mentions the fact that Nancy Pelosi actively dislikes Sen Clinton. I know that Pelosi threw Jane Harman under the bus and then backed up and ran over her and have already noted that there are no women in leadership positions within the Democratic caucus in the House.
It all put me in mind of my place of employment. After many years, the hospital where I worked began promoting women to management. We all observed that women would take on consolidated positions for less pay and work harder. In any case, when a woman was put in charge of our Department (she came from another hospital) a male colleague made the idiotic mistake of introducing me to her by calling me "the Queen of the Department." She looked at me and said, "That's what they used to call me at my last Hospital." The next few years were not entirely happy ones ... fortunately I outlasted her.

burrito: I raised a genuinely decent human being ... that's all I think I need to have accomplished. As wise woman said to me once, "What we owe our parents is to do for our children what our parents have done for us."

I have no idea why women do not support each other......it seems to be ingrained to their own demise

Clinton, Obama talks held without aides present:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080607/ap_on_el_pr/obama_clinton

"They called me when it was over," Feinstein said. "I came down and said, `Good night everybody, I hope you had a good meeting.' They were laughing, and that was it."

-I don't know what they were laughing about, but I'll bet the joke's on us.

Interesting - we all work so hard for the simple accomplishment of raising a decent human being.....by today's standards that is well above the norm.....

Congrats to all who have succeeded !

Obama, Black Liberation Theology and Karl Marx - II

" ...Barack Obama spoke to the graduates of Wesleyan College ...

And here are the words that gave me a shudder:

"It's because you have an obligation to yourself. Because our individual salvation depends on collective salvation. Because thinking only about yourself, fulfilling your immediate wants and needs, betrays a poverty of ambition."

"Collective salvation" is an idea that comes from Marxism, Liberation Theology in particular, and is absolutely antithetical to traditional Christianity.

The idea of "collective salvation" or "collective redemption" is pure Marxism; there is nothing whatsoever Christian about it."

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/06/obama_black_liberation_theolog_1.html

The funniest thing I heard today was from the Detroit Red Wings player Kris Draper:

"My kids have already informed me that they want to eat Fruit Loops out of the Stanley Cup." - Kris Draper

maggisd,
It's great being a mother.....isn't it?So much learning and pride that come out of it....nothing better : )

Burrito,

It's crushing to say this, but most people are very, very frivolous including women who should know better.

Flatus

burrito: Yes, it is. I have to admit that there have been times...but we all know about those. Still, in a hundred years most of us will be long forgotten, except for that little part of us that is passed on through our children and their children ... they are to be valued in themselves, but also as our little piece of immortality.

Well then we deserve what we get.......it is sad because those who need help have no idea where to go for help....it is a mess.....and if I had 25 million I could fix it in a week. .... it's all about educating ....so they know ......what they are doing......

maggisd
Boy that Chuck Obama Todd just doesn't quit even after his man has won!Nancy Peslosi SAD her biggest claim to fame IMPEACHMENT off the Table who would have thought it.

Interesting article here about why more women didn't vote for Hillary.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1812050,00.html

Good night all. Have a good evening.

Women rock...and actually every child knows this to be true........It is just a shame....that we are not respected or heard......

Everyone knows...

tony: I have to admit that I'm pretty disappointed in Pelosi. I recall having tears in my eyes when she took over the Speakership but she and Reid seem to be the two most singularly ineffective leaders. I give Reid a bit of a pass because his majority is so thin and because Ol Mitch McConnell is a take no prisoners kind of a guy ... but Pelosi is only dealing with Boehner, who's half in the bag half the time. I think part of her problem is that she can't bring herself to really deal with the Blue Dogs ... ideology is fine in the classroom, but compromise is what works in the halls of Congress

Matthews is totally dreamy : )

I think Chuck Todd is a man of math and numbers.

The Right Wing has stated using "Commie Obamie". From what I'm reading, they may be correct.

P of U.....get a room!

Nick: Nah ... women not supporting each other has more to do with them depending on men for validation than anything else ... competing for male attention. It is actually a biological thing. All my female friends and I (all of us have only daughters) bemoan the fact that our daughters make the same stupid mistakes that we made, that they were warned against, and educated to avoid.

unlikely_ burrito: I don't swing his way, but I'm just saying. The childish laugh, the horribly dyed hair, the spittle. One word: H-O-T

Burrito , no argument here. When you have a Dad like mine , you realize that. And Father's Day is coming up! Swell.

PofU: Maybe he'll tell us someday then what the numbers would have been without weighted delegates. I'd really like to know.

Burrito,

How would you use your 25 million?

PofU: OMG ... the spittle. It's too excruciating to watch.

lol you guys are2 funny

Communism in Chicago and the Obama Connection (Special Report)

"On February 22, 2008, Ben Smith of Politico reported a story that ran under the headline, “Obama once visited ‘60s radicals.”

All of these figures – Palmer, Ayers, Dohrn and Young – are much more than the Politico described. The evidence assembled in this report suggest that these individuals – and many more – are part of a network of people with socialist and/or communist connections who have been a key part of Obama’s life and career..."

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2020374/posts

Night all ... catch you another time.

maggisd: Yes! I know!

Corey...back in 1997 i JUST MISSED Kris Draper ... he was at a Red Robin restaurant with the Stanley Cup about five minutes before I got there. I did actually see the Cup during the parade.

I would feel queasy about eating out of it...it's been a urinal, an ash tray, a champagne glass, a baby bath, legend has it one guy vomited into it and one guy went #2 into it...it's been a spaghetti bowl and a shaving mug (to remove the "playoff beard")...you name it, and it's been done in the Cup!

But it cleans up good! This year's Cup Playoffs were outstanding!

maggisd
I remember being so proud Because of the Democratic Party to be the First to have a Woman in such a position of Power! Boy again what a disapointment.I think you have really schooled me tonight on the subject of Nancy how smart you are.Where does things go from here?? I knew I had changed when I was listening to talk radio a couple of weeks ago and a commentator said the Democrats were going to make hugh gains in Nov. and I just didn't care or think they Deserve it.DNC to Blame or is it some how me? I dont know

P O U
Omg Matthews Hot.No you don't swing my way The Closet is awful even if he Loved Hill Yuuk But again He has the thrill up his leg for the Senator......Funny

Corey,
are you there?

I think you are so on the top of your issues that you should be very proud of your self.

That is all I can say ...but really be proud. : )

Tony, Eleanor Roosevelt is probably thrashing about in her grave. Here we have Mrs Clinton, a woman who claims her has her idol, and then Mrs Roosevelt's own grandson co-chairs the committee that trashes the one who would have made her legacy whole.

Burrito , every Father's Day leads to this phone con versation with my sister: "What are you getting Dad for Father's Day?" "I don't know. I really don't wanna get him anything." "I know. I don't want to either , but we probably should." Worse yet , is buying him a card!

we are born......

then we are told

then we are challenged

then we see the outcome

.....................................

eventually we will see our power.

Flatus
I feel like im in an Alternate Universe!!! Im sure E.R. is thrashing in her Grave.How can this be?Mrs. Clinton is the Best but they have to take her down to have there Chosen One.Hense CNN promo for there Special The Fall Of Hillary Clinton makes me sick!!!

I've been watching Olbamamann on MSNBC and he and his cadre are already blaming Clinton for anything that may possibly go wrong with Obama's campaign. Except for "Worst Person" this show is now officially worthless.

Flatus,

re your Eleanor Roosevelt post. I agree she probably is turning over and would like to put her hand to his backside for a good whack.

Julie

Corey,
I can not imagine how difficult it has been for you. But, in reality you have to keep going on....(that sucks)
He will never change....so you are the one who has to change....you have to stop expecting what you want.

it's cold and simple.....but really, you are already your own person.... be proud of that....

Gordo,

Most of these people are Democrats with socialist philosophies, so detailing Obama's socialist leanings gleaned from his past rhetoric will more likely endear him to them, rather than force a more critical examination of him and his policies.

Why don't you explain to them why you believe a pseudo-socialist state is not in their best interest, instead of hyperlinking other people's anecdotes and opinions? Might gain more traction that way.

champ

That would require Gordo to use his brain

Not gonna happen
With all the space between his ears the probability of his two braincells colliding and producing an original thought is close to zero.

Jack

here we go

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMsnqQHOwFg

in case anyone forgot about reality : )

PoU
I'm not a good source of information for fancy whiskey.
My Bourbon and coke whiskey is Jim Beam twice the whiskey of Jack Daniels at 2/3 the cost. For sipping Jim Beam has a black lable that I like.

Old Grandad used to make what they called a straight barrell run 114 proof Whiskey. Very smooth almost sweet. I liked it a lot but it got hard to find and I haven't seen it in several years.. I must have been the only one to buy it. It was best drank in a brandy sniffer and very slow.
This is not to be confused with other Old Grandad whiskeys which are mostly rotgut.

For some highend brands read this
http://www.latimes.com/features/food/la-fo-bourbon17dec17,1,4619866.story

Jack

good night everybody.
My wife is home so it is early to rise in the morning
UB good music thanks.

Jack

"It turns out that Obama's childhood mentor, Frank Marshall Davis, was a communist.

...publicly identified as a member of the Communist Party USA (CPUSA)."

http://www.aim.org/aim-column/obamas-communist-mentor/

maggisd; 10:51 am....

Ever hear of Eleanor of Aquitaine, much more Queen and ruler than wife and mother, just ask Henry II. I'm sure there are women out there today just like that. Wexler is an idiot, and a chauvanist pig...

Frydaddy; 12:29 pm .... it's called reverse racism, only we don't talk about it because we're not black.....

Bear; 2:38 pm.... Maybe one of the reasons you dislike Specter, is the "Warren Commision" and the single bullet theory?????....

Wskyjack; 5:55 pm.... I agree, they are without any knowledge of the social graces and totally lacking in class.....

Jamie:... you better put me down as a revolutionary loyalist, geez, I'm old enough to believe in the divine right of kings, and beheading usurpers.....

What I learned most from this primary is an old adage has proven true."It's not what you know,It's who you know.It couldn't be more evident than it is in this election.

There's no room in the democrat party for independent thinking.Unless you are willing to bow down to the powers that be in the DNC you have no chance of winning.The DNC will choose their nominee.They do not care who the people want.So unless the DNC sanctions your run then you better not even try.Save your money and your time.

It is no longer possible for just anyone to run for president unless you run in the Republican party.Of course there are other parties but they don't have a chance in hell, because the two main parties have made it all but impossible with all the restrictions.

So if I no longer vote it won't bother me.Let the younger generation worry about it.I'm just too tired.

Ruth

LOL

I've got to share this

"Why Does the Michelle Obama Tape Rumor Match a 2006 Novel?"

http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=Mzc3ZWNhNThmM2JhMzliZDUxMWNmMmU5M2ZiNmM1YTY=

So Gordo what cheap novels have you been reading.

Jack

Jamie,I agree with your 9:29 post.
Abortion wasn't legal in the 50's and we managed to get by.In today's times with the pill and tubal ligations,woman can prevent pregnancy if they want to.I don't think Roe is as important today as it would have been before modern medicine.Also there is the morning after pill and men can have vasectomies.So really there is not much need for abortions except in those extreme cases you mentioned in your post.

Ruth

Hillary always said she coukd beat the Republicans. And she was right .She can beat the Repubs.What she failed to see was that it would be her own party who would destroy her.I guess she never expected them to turn on her.

Ruth

"Bob Beckel says Bombshell is heading Michele Obama's way.

http://hillbuzz.blogspot.com/2008/06/bob-beckel-says-bombshell-coming.html

h

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/06/btsc.welch.obama.press/index.html

Ah! Now we know what they were laughing about....

"Hey, guess what, Hillary? I just kidnapped a bunch of reporters and had them sent on a plane to Chicago! They don't even know we are meeting here!"

"A-ha-ha, Barry, You're so funny. Dick Cheney would be proud. If you'll go to those lengths to keep this silly meeting secret, I can't wait to see what you'll do as president!

Hannity nailed Obama last night when Jerry S. was on. He asked him you knew of Rev. Wrights rep. didn't you?(Springer a Chicago resident) After himhawing he said yes. So how could he know and Obama not know after 20 years being in the same Church? He is a liar and full of himself. I can't wait for the fall and it's gonna be big.

Yeah Kendall,

Hannity has a real knack for 'nailing' people that aren't present to defend themselves. He's a disingenuous schill whose paycheck depends on division and sensationalism. Fuck him.

I agree about Hannity. He is prone to win a debate as long as it consists of sound-bytes and who can shout down their opponent.

And let's not forget Hillary is looking so strong against the GOP becuase they have been building her up the last couple of months out of pure self interest - while Obama has been - until recently - fighting a two-front war.

We all knew going in to this thing that the Republicans were going to fight tooth and nail to keep the White House (and that they would play dirty) - because it is their only chance to stop the Democrats from pushing their agenda through due to their majority in Congress.

And let's not forget that agenda largely consists of ending the occupation in Iraq, universal health care, tax breaks for the middle class - while rolling back the Bush tax cuts on the upper class in order to cut the deficit and pay for things like improved education and social security.

I can confidently say that if Obama lost to Hillary - I would support her whole-heartedly because I believe that agenda represents the best way forward for this Country.

After 8 years of Bush ramming the Republican agenda at all costs and stopping any legislation that ran contray to it - it is very clear - given the stark results of those policies - that this Country needs to change direction.

And I believe that is worth fighting for - no matter who is President.

I think Obama will lose without Hillary's campaigning for him. He had to take 2 vacations in the season, while she had none. He has no idea of what he's getting into - they're complaining that she didn't concede? What in the world does that have to do with it?

He doesn't need her concession in order to mount a campaign. If he's a candidate, he should run: that's what she would do - she'd keep going and let him choke on her dust. She's already taught him a lot, just not enough.

But I think she'll campaign like heck to keep Mc from the White House, and win it for him. She won't get any credit for it, and that's why she shouldn't be on the ticket. Any bad things would be her fault, and any successes would be accredited to him. He wanted it and made promises so let him show his stuff. I think he'll be just a mediocrity.

As to the puppet master, I don't buy Soros and those others. My suggestion is Teddy Kennedy, who wants his family esp JFK to go down as the most decent and tolerant and kind and wisest people to have lived in this country. Where do you think Obama got the idea that the Kennedy's hand-picked his father to come here and study?

Did you see that Obama started making his changes. I was surprised that he was so quick. I just heard that he made Howard Dean chair of the DNC........oh, wait a minute......isn't that.....?

Re the veep, thing, settle down, you unruly kids. Just settle down. It's none of your business - I'll tell you when I'm good and ready. Such respect, such condescension, such kinship with Lady Catherine de
Bourgh.......

I think HRC could have benefited from a couple of vacations during this primary race...

And neither Hillary nor Barack could win without the other. And despite the bad blood - I think the fact that they both took part in this historic and hard-fought campaign - gives them a unique bond.

Buenas noche.

The reason that the Michelle Obama tape rumor won't go away is because people believe that she would say something like that. Unfair or not she is going to have to deal with that. She has not come across well in some of her public statements and that is the image of her that many people have. It probably doesn't help that people think that she is being kept out of the limelight, since she can't be relied upon to stay on message. Another problem is the embargo of her thesis from Princeton, it makes people suspicious, that access to that document is restricted.

Three choices to think about.
Janet Napolitano. A governor in second term. Westerner, helps with Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico, and Colorado.
Bob Graham. Former Governor, Senator. Against the war from start. Younger than McCain.
Richard Bryan. A governor, Senator. Helps in western states. yuonger than McCain.

Are you guys just joking when you say Matthews is in the closet? If he is, I can't believe he admits it to himself. That man has some heavy issues with medieval theology.

Hillbuzz is suggesting the possibility that Pelosi, Dean, and Reid want to lose the ge this year, in order to bulk up democraic control of congress, ruin the next pres's term, and then take over the wh too. I can't buy it, but doesn't it explain how they're acting? They don't seem to want to win.