Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Woo Hoo?

Second!

Craig,
Yes, I do think there will be a rush in SD "coming out" now ... It's just sad that the MSM & DNC hated Hillary so much, that they would help BHO win ... Yesterday hearing was a farse .. but then, that's how most of this Primary has been played ...

What church will he join now?

Without the cover of Trinity he is just another muslim :)

Leaving Trinity --is he leaving all of the associations too?

Alicia, I hope you repost your last comment here. It was really a good read.

Ok, I am so for Hillary, but the "muslim" charge against Obama isn't fair.

Good morning peeps,
She quit yet?

I think he should join the Presbyterian Church of course he could really pander -he could join one, his wife another and his kids could convert to Judisim.

http://www.pcusa.org/

According to his bio -his community work began in this church--the ride on his bus must be very bumpy what with all the people under the bus.

The "Church of the Presidents" is really pretty and it's just a short walk across the park from the White House.

http://www.nps.gov/history/history/online_books/Presidents/site12.htm

"Don't give up, Hillary has the popular vote and truly, all I can say is this: Denver." from the last thread posted by Alicia Knight

here is a video of one of the Clinton people. Y'all must be proud.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=VeGPzk8Oca8

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

Church Shopping -------------------------

Barack Obama – Muslim apostate?

http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0519/p09s02-coop.html

Dooty,

We are as proud of her as Sen. Obama is of Pfleger.

An Episcopal Church? He would have to make sure he joined the right branch too much controversy for him

He could be endanger of being seen with women and gay clergy.

That demonstration at the DNC RBC looked like a good place to pick up chicks yesterday. Any smart single guy in DC would have showed up with a Count Our Votes sign!

CS

The St. John's website provides details. I think the Obamas would fit in quite well and pew 54 is reserved.

http://www.stjohns-dc.org/

Dooty,

"We are as proud of her as Sen. Obama is of Pfleger."

Obama was not very gracious to Clinton when he responded to the Pfleger remarks. He basically said the remarks were true just inappropriate in public.

This is your candidate a divisive snob who has hornswoggled people into thinking he is something new and different when he is the SOS

Repost. just wanted to make a point!

Too bad she blew it then with those major character defects - inability to handle reality, lying, Rove tactics, staying with that rat of a husband. If she'd dumped him after the Monica mess and struck out on her own, she'd have been way more impressive.

Posted by: janice | June 1, 2008 7:43 AM

Janice, quite unnesary....You don't lend much to Unity. And that statement is just plain out of line and over the top! I'm an Obama supporter and I think you should rethink how you try and defend your candidate here.

These people have been sincere in their dedication to Senator Clinton.

Posted by: Chef Sheila Hussein The Nun | June 1, 2008 11:11 AM

He joined Trinity for political expediency, he resigned for political expediency!

Resigning now does not erase his BIG LIE - that he never heard or never knew Rev. Wright "said those things"! To believe that requires that one suspend all logic, reason, and common sense.

I'm amazed more hasn't been made of this obvious LIE. It's all the GOP 527's need. Hope they run with it.

The "Church of the Presidents"

That really is a beautiful old parish church, Jamie.

For years, the presidents were Episcopalians; I found that comforting in that it implied consistency, roots, and a moral commitment.

Much of that feeling has been lost as people seem to change denominations at a frenetic pace depending on personalities rather than ecclesiastical dogma in shaping their patterns of belief.

I think he should join Fousquare Gospel

http://www.foursquare.org/

Obama as 'apostate'

"Islam is a religion one can embrace but never leave. If one is born to a Muslim father, or becomes a Muslim by conversion, forced or otherwise, one is a Muslim for life; and should one convert to another faith, the crime is considered capital -- above all others in Islam -- and the punishment is severe.

Thus, Barack Obama, who was born a Muslim to a Muslim father and later formally converted and was baptized as a Christian may be a Christian to all the rest of the "infidel" world -- but is a Muslim apostate to Muslims."

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/05/obama_as_apostate.htm

l

Reviewing various dominations, perhaps the Jehovah's Witnesses would be a better match.

http://www.watchtower.org/

Father Pfleger's remarks were true, he just shouldn't have said them publicly. But you gotta admit watching him is funny as hell.

Flatus

I love St. John's architecturally and then I particularly liked the sermons of Peter Marshall that I read years and years ago in "A Man Called Peter" (Pretty good if old fashioned movie too)

You don't have to be either a Christian or religious to find wisdom in those words. Unfortuntely to my mind his son has gone off into the mists of the evangelicals, but everybody to their own thing.

Father Pfleger's remarks were true, he just shouldn't have said them publicly. But you gotta admit watching him is funny as hell.

Posted by: BrianInNYC | June 1, 2008 11:23 AM

And please, no one should ever accuse our pet troll Brian of engaging in spindrool. He is incapable of sincerity or drooling --starting with the fact that he's not really for Obama (for example) he's just against Hillary. For purely, meanspirited, cynical, contrarian and destructive spinning such as is his forte -- I might suggest "spinarrhea"

"For years, the presidents were Episcopalians; I found that comforting in that it implied consistency, roots, and a moral commitment."

What a gross and stupid thing to say, and highly inaccurate.

"But you gotta admit watching him is funny as hell. "

Yes he does share your "type" of humor. The more injury and insult the better. Also good for people who stare with pleasure at bloody bodies by the side of the road

GORDO: Here is the thing I have never understood about this "Obama is a Muslim!" controversy: Who cares? So what if he was? (Not that I think he is.) Is there a law on the books that says only Christians can be elected President?

I am NOT an Obama fan but, I must tell you, this is one argument I really don't understand or advocate. My 15-year-old son is getting ready to spend the summer in Morocco studying Arabic through a program funded by the State Department. One of the results of this experience I wish for is the combatting of anti-Muslim rhetoric. MUSLIM DOES NOT EQUAL TERRORIST. And, until we understand other cultures, we will never achieve global peace.

What a gross and stupid thing to say, and highly inaccurate.

Posted by: BrianInNYC | June 1, 2008 11:27 AM

Sounds like someone commenting on your posts

The next thing you know Brian will tell us Monroe, Adams, Jackson, Van Buren, Harrison, and Taylor weren't really Presidents, followed by denying that all the modern presidents have attended services there for special events.

http://www.adherents.com/adh_presidents.html

Hey Stooopid you are gross and highly inaccuate

Here here Ally,

Making Muslim a matter of hate is just plain breading prejudice and division.

I had an Executive Chef from Lebenon and a Muslim who was the sweetest and best boss I have ever had. I learned so much about his religion and he learn a lot about mine in those long quiet kitchen moments. He was a Democrat too and very very proud of his citizenship.

To treat Obama's middle name as a sign of his preference is just plain silly and therefore purposefully breeding hate for others as well.

God, sour grapes on here I see. What else to be expected?

Frankly, Clinton could have done herself some good with a smidgen of humility and a good lack of condescension. I don’t believe there is one humble bone in her body, something that seems to attract some women (and men). If she would have had less of an “it’s me or no one” or “I’m the only one”, she may have had a chance. That and running a campaign like a president would run a country…finances you know. She’s still paying off Penn. Millions. She’s not done yet because it’s all ABOUT HER, and she doesn’t give a rats ass about the Democratic Party or even democracy. Alex Forrest to the tee.

She wasn’t looking in the rear view mirror when the country saw the great need for change. It was to have been hers. How she reacts now will determine her political future!!!

Patsi, from your remark from the other link...you don't know me except from what I say about Hillary Clinton on here and that to you is what someone is all about. You need to get real. They don't like her and you hate them. Saw a lot of that yesterday on television. Adversity is a part of life and I've seen my share of it. Clinton needs to get a grip with it herself.

Sheila: Yes, I knew Chef Hussein (albeit not well) but we did have mutual friends (through our kids.)

Hey Sheila

I really like the idea of "breading" prejudice. Can we fry it up and get rid of it once and for all? : )

your post points out that i am correct. only 11 presidents have been Episcopalians. Flatus said most. He also implies in his post that being a member of that church makes one "moral".

Jamie John Adams was a Unitarian and rather famous for that fact. For someone who considers herself a history maven you should have know that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_First_Parish_Church%2C_Quincy%2C_Massachusetts

Ally -----------------------------

"Who cares?"

Many Muslims.

This is from the NYT:

"At the very least, that would complicate the security planning of state visits by President Obama to Muslim countries, because the very act of protecting him would be sinful for Islamic security guards. More broadly, most citizens of the Islamic world would be horrified by the fact of Senator Obama’s conversion to Christianity once it became widely known — as it would, no doubt, should he win the White House. This would compromise the ability of governments in Muslim nations to cooperate with the United States in the fight against terrorism, as well as American efforts to export democracy and human rights abroad.

But of all the well-meaning desires projected on Senator Obama, the hope that he would decisively improve relations with the world’s Muslims is the least realistic."

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/12/opinion/12luttwak.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Killfile
Posted by: Karolenna | June 1, 2008 11:35 AM

Brian

The figures

http://www.adherents.com/adh_presidents.html

Episcopalians 11 that is "most" since Presbyterian is 10 to make it second, and those two are way ahead of third place.

John "Quincy" Adams worshiped as an Episcopalian. He and daddy didn't always get along.

What's up, everybody!

Obama will have a tough time at the "values" debates now. How will he explain the basis for his religious values now?

Perhaps a better fit is Joel Osteen

http://joelosteen.lakewood.cc/site/PageServer?pagename=JOM_homepage

Might just be a perfect fit

GORDO: Again, this article addresses the concerns of the fringe. Of the extremists. I simply don't subscribe to this being an issue in the big picture. Listen, all I am saying is there are plenty of reasons not to support Obama. I simply feel that this argument isn't one of them and promotes anti-Muslim rhetoric.

Odd that John Q decided to be buried in a Unitarian Church. Jamie I know it's impossible for you to admit you're wrong, after all your for Clinton, but in this matter as most you are dead wrong. And as usual just ignore the bigoted part of Flatus' remark, just as you do with the Clintons.

Just for pure accuracy: JQ Adams was a Unitarian and is counted among the 4 Unitarian presidents, but he also worshiped as an Episcopalian while president.

Hey Utopia,
Just the usual, the stupidity and bigotry of the Clintonites. Hows by you?

To be honest: I would love an atheist to run. Festivus for the Rest of Us!

"Just for pure accuracy: JQ Adams was a Unitarian and is counted among the 4 Unitarian presidents, but he also worshiped as an Episcopalian while president."

Idiot!

now here's an odd little sect which might interest the spiritually storm-tossed candidate:

http://www.corg.org/

Ally,

Here's your pole. : )

http://www.k-gallery.com/kjournal/media/2/20071204-festivus-pole.jpg

"concluded that the Calvinist Samuel Adams had bested William Ellery Channing, the Unitarians' leader, in a debate on the doctrine of the Trinity. Then a year later, when in an exchange of letters his father good-naturedly drew him into a theological debate, the junior Adams revealed that, while not approving their intolerance, he tended to follow the doctrines of the Trinitarians and Calvinists; moreover, that he wanted no part of Unitarianism. He suggested that his father read a sermon on the divinity of Christ by a Bishop Massilon, "after which be a Socinian if you can."

As he matured, Adams struggled to develop his own system of beliefs, with his diaries containing rebuttals of both optimistic Unitarianism and intolerant Fundamentalism. Once at a dinner party in Boston he found himself in a loud theological debate with Horace Holley, a brilliant young Unitarian minister, in which Adams contended that Unitarianism's appeal was confined to "the liberal class who consider religion as merely a system of morals."

"

Brian,

Not too bad. Sitting here doing some grading a coffee shop. When does Puerto Rico vote today?

Brian is having his usual problem with reality. Even when you say he is right he calls you names.

PoU

There are links about Puerto Rico above in Craig's article.

Predictably, Adams was often critical of what he heard or read of the emerging Unitarian denomination. He strongly rejected Joseph Priestley's materialism and ultra-rationalism, just as he was later to oppose the Transcendentalism of Ralph Waldo Emerson and Orestes Brownson, calling them "vipers" and "enemies of public virtue." To him Emerson's "Divinity School Address" was "crazy" and Brownson an advocate of "self-delusive atheism." Adams, feeling it was "everyman's duty [to] take the field" against these foes of public virtue, prepared and delivered a lecture on "Faith," positing that religious and moral faith is dependent on will. He was well acquainted with William Ellery Channing and admired his moral earnestness, though sometimes disagreed with his views on war and slavery. On the latter issue, the two in time became strong allies.

Adams evidently found comfort in corporate worship and regularly attended two services on Sunday when in Washington—Unitarian and, most often, Episcopal and Presbyterian

There's an interesting feature on Bill Clinton's recent emotional outbursts from "Vanity Fair" that may be of some interest to you:

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/07/clinton200807

Jamie! Love it! I don't know if I could get away with it in Iowa. I have to fly under the radar a bit here.

When we first moved here my son was in Social Studies and the teacher brought up some famous story from the bible to relate a moment in history (apparently all the kids in the class totally got it.) Then my son says, "Who's so and so?" (Can't remember the character right now but I believe it was an Apostle.) Anyhow, he said that the whole room fell silent and all the kids just stopped and stared at him. "You don't know who so and so is?"

And the first time I went to a neighborhood party a woman I had never met before asked me "So, have you picked a church?" I was flabbergasted. I wasn't on Bainbridge Island anymore!

Utopia I think Hillary's swan song has already started up, I don't know what time the polls close.

You didn't say I was right, you tried to spin the truth in a way to make it look you were right when you were dead wrong, just like Hillary did with her Iraq war vote.

Thanks, Jamie.

I'm still not quite awake this morning. : )

Better hit that coffee.

This is exactly, EXACTLY why religion shouldn't even come into the discussion when it comes to presidential elections. Do any of you know what faith Richard Nixon was? Society of Friends, or "Quaker." Did it matter? Not at all. One of the nastiest and most frightening trends in politics over the past decade or so has been the need candidates feel to "prove" that they love Jesus more than the other candidate does. It may not be the religious test ruled out in the Constitution, but in practice, it functions the same. Religion and politics need to be separate worlds. Period.

If US voters want to damage relations with the Muslim world, from what I've read - this would do it.

He wasn't a Unitarian and if you studied the history of the religions you would understand that it is only a convenience of history that he is so classified

of course stereotyping and name calliing is the refuge of the especially stupid and ignorant.

Ally,

I've got a raft of cousins who are really unhappy that I won't be with them during the "rapture" so I know how you feel. : )

Purely for the sake of understanding literary references and historical events, I believe in studying the bible. Between it and Shakespeare you have virtually all the common expressions of the western world.

http://jdurward.blogspot.com/2007/04/happy-birthday-will.html

Brian,

I agree. She's toast. But it will be interesting to see what she says in her victory speech. Will she still go after the popular vote claim, or will she be more subdued. There are some reports out there this morning that say her aides are working out a plan for a dignified exit that would include a top cabinet position in the Obama administration (health care). We'll see if she plays nice or not tonight.

To be honest: I would love an atheist to run. Festivus for the Rest of Us!

Pete Stark for President
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/03/14/MNG7BOKV111.DTL

Church Shopping - true dat!

The "preachers/guest preachers" at this so called Christian church are not the only worriesome example of anti-white, anti-USA feelings - just take a look at the way the congregations react to the "preacher's" messages. Obama declares he was nowhere in hearing distance to this stuff (in fact, couldn't quite remember the last time he attended a service there) - but what about his wife? When was the last time she was there? and if she heard this stuff, wouldn't she have told him?

January: she's toast she's toast it's over
February: she's toast she's toast it's over
March: she's toast she's toast it's over
April: she's toast she's toast it's over
May: she's toast she's toast it's over
June: she'll be toast she'll be toast it'll be over
July: she'll be toast she'll be toast it'll be over

lol

Ally,

There's hardly a week that goes by without someone knocking on our door in an effort to proselytize us.

Fortunately our prayer wheel isn't far from the entrance and I'll invite them to watch as I use it in the manner for which it was designed.

When we were in Korea, we were given some delightful prayers and mantras. There is comfort in them because they imply consistency, roots, and a moral commitment.

My standby is: Om Ma Ni Ban Mae Hum

Invariably the proselytizers thank us and bow their way out.

Obama has two "Larry Problems".

Jamie: I agree with you on studying the bible...I grew up Catholic and attended Catholic school. But my kids are another story. My husband and I decided we would let them choose their own course. I don't know quite yet if we have done right by them or not. They have attended church with various friends and my son attended his first Bar Mitvah last weekend (three days of festivities!) I guess time will tell whether or not they end up as serial killers. So far, no missing puppies in the neighborhood (unlike Claire's block.)

sturgeone,

There's a funny truth to your post. What's different now, even HRC people must admit, is that she's run out of road.

Flatus: I'm not sure where my moral compass comes from, to tell you the truth. But I have two boys who have displayed lovely integrity and philanthropy (so far so good) and am married to the most honest man in America (he's from Kansas so that might have something to do with it.) Who knows what the future holds for me?

Sheila: Yes, I knew Chef Hussein (albeit not well) but we did have mutual friends (through our kids.)

Posted by: Ally | June 1, 2008 11:36 AM

Ally, YOu knew Hussein Ramadan? Did I know that you are on Bainbridge?

Ah Jamie! LOL Glad I could add to your mirth today.....and yes, After that gaffe I just checked my spelling of Mirth. lol two cups down and so feel much better.

there's toast at the end of the road...........look up, my brethren and behold the toast at the end of the road.......

the end of the road.......is denver.
lol

Sheila: Yes, we have discussed it before. I left Bainbridge about two and a half years ago though (for Iowa.)

Utopia CNN just reported that the PR polls will be closing soon. Do we have any fat ladies here, we need someone to sing.

OK kids. I am off to garden, do the grocery shopping for the week, get caught up on laundry, mop the floors and finish up some work. Just another relaxing day in Iowa!

Well our Hussein is now in california. his Wife developed heart problems. the best people in the world and I wish them well.

Brian: Phew. Hopefully CNN.com will carry her speech - they have in the past. Maybe we can get Crawford in a pants suit and have him sing : )

How McCain's Katrina Record Undermines Criticism Of Obama On Iraq

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/30/how-mccains-katrina-recor_n_104176.html

What church will he join now?

Without the cover of Trinity he is just another muslim :)

Leaving Trinity --is he leaving all of the associations too?

Posted by: Church Shopping | June 1, 2008 11:05 AM

Obama is cutting ties with Trinity not his ideology. He could just as easily go to the National Cathedral and feel at home. There is a church right across lafeyette square that most of the protestent leaning Presidents go to. Forgot the name. That is where President Obama would go, more than likely.

Utopia I do believe all of Craig's suits have pants.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/2/20/201332/807

Jamie and anyone interested in seeing some points on unity for both candidates, here is some research.

just trying to show a little effort to give you guys some meat for the future.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/2/20/201332/807

Nick: Sorry my advice was a day late and a dollar short. It just occured to me this morning as I was reading the New York Times. That crowd was not just old ladies...there were some young, and most likely, single females in that crowd! If you want to get a woman, think like a woman!

Brian,

Yes, but are the canary yellow? That would be something to see!

".....Barack Obama's world...."

Those three words from Craigs blog said a lot to me.

"There is a church right across lafeyette square that most of the protestent leaning Presidents go to."

Sheila,

You have to backtrack. Brian and I have already had a multiple post dust up about St. John's and Presidential religious affiliation.

He even managed to get in his first "idiot" of day because I failed to agree with him in absolutely every particular to his complete satisfaction.

It's good reading for the links to the church. Swat the puppy for yapping in passing.

"Watching the Rules and Bylaws Committee (RBC) today, I was strongly reminded of two things. First, when I lived in a condo in San Diego I attended Homeowner’s Association Meetings where, I swear to God, the same bunch of rule-happy, petty tyrants were in charge. Second, this brought back ugly memories of court arguments in 2000 where fancy BS was being used to disenfranchise voters."

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/05/31/unity-my-ass-on-to-denver/#more-2859

All I can say is thank god this woman's last name is Christian!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KACQuZVAE3s

Daily Kos preaching unity is a little like Sitting Bull offering Custer mercy.

Jamie,

I've always thought the Daily Kos folks were rather nice.

Jamie,

Well it is Sunday and I'm still getting up from a long week. ;0)

Should I admit, I was in that church for one round to document b-41 in church? Its a wonderfully spiritual place and I was very aware of who else worshipped there. It was surreal.

Dailly Kos is besides that point. The writer is actually nice about Clinton as well. Put a positive letter on it.

It sure would Utopia, btw memo to Hillary, enough with the yellow already!

Although, my girlfriend says that HRC is one of the few people who can pull off the canary yellow so well. However, yes, it needs to end!

PoU

The people who write for KOS are very nice. Most are extremely literate, and the posts interesting. Their commenters can be another matter just like everywhere. As long as you know that KOS positions are somewhere to the left of Lenin and read it in that light while double checking everything for that slant, it is a really useful site.

Brian I think more like.....what about those passionate New Yorkers!

Obama's public persona is based on his Church
the title of his book, the community organizing were all church based. I guess it meant nothing, that he could so easily throw it away and simply join "the president's church"

It looks like he has no fundamental beliefs like his pretense of taking no special interest money.

Hollow and shallow.

Why did Obama join Trinity

http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_stump/archive/2008/04/29/why-d-obama-join-trinity-in-the-first-place.aspx?CommentPosted=true

He is a user.

Killing Her Softly
Hillary Clinton and the contradictions of the West.

" ...a resume you could print on the back of his driver’s license, a Rolodex apparently limited to neo-segregationist racebaiters, campus Marxist terrorists and indicted fraudsters, and a rhetorical surefootedness that makes Dan Quayle look like Socrates. “On this Memorial Day,” said Barack Obama last Monday, “as our nation honors its unbroken line of fallen heroes — and I see many of them in the audience here today…”

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZWE3MjMyMDM0YjkwNjEyNTM4OWZhYmExNzUzMDc1OWE=

It looks like he has no fundamental beliefs like his pretense of taking no special interest money.

Hollow and shallow.

Posted by: Church Shopping | June 1, 2008 12:46 PM

As someone who is deeply spiritual and not afraid to say so,,,,me. You must not understand what is feels like to be a deeply spiritual person like Obama.

I would have had a hard time letting my afiliation go because of a bunch of human beings. Afterall, God is who we worship and who we look to for true guidance. I have remained in a church that wasn't atune officially with my philosphy on womens rights and abortion.

It doesn't make me weak. It makes me stronger and more evolved to take comfort from 90% of the sermons and teachings while discarding the rest as a free willed and free thinking chrisitian.

When Obama denounced, it was with a measured decision. I like how he took time and really tought it over. Afterall, breaking with a church family is as hard as breaking with your own for a christian.

Sheila that woman is definitely in the mode of Gerry Ferarro! Utopia CNN just announced they are going to be doing PR exit polls soon. The polls there close at 3:00 Eastern.

btw, Church shopping you sound like KGC.... If that is the case. Good to see you!

From Mike Allen's annoyingly hard to read (learn to use font and section headings!) summary of all things politics:

NOT WAITING FOR CONCESSION -- TIME’s “The Page” highlights an ABC News “Political Radar” account of comments by Obama adviser Anita Dunn: “Asked if Obama would wait to get a concession call from Clinton before claiming the nomination, Dunn said the onus was on Clinton now that the Democratic Party has firmed up the number of delegates needed to claim the party's nod. ‘He's not going to wait by the phone like a high-school girl waiting for a date,’ said Dunn. ‘That's not Barack Obama.’ ”

Kind of funny, but why the gendered language?

There is always an excuse for Obama's behavior
It's ok if Obama does it.

If it were Clinton the knives would be out

Hypocrisy is the credo of Obamabots and denial and delusional thinking marks every comment

.

Zakaria's new show is on. Finally some real international news.

Quakers

http://www.quaker.org/

It would be interesting to see how a Quaker congregation would react to incendiary oratory.

There is always an excuse for Obama's behavior
It's ok if Obama does it.

If it were Clinton the knives would be out

Hypocrisy is the credo of Obamabots and denial and delusional thinking marks every comment

.

Posted by: Church Shopping | June 1, 2008 12:56 PM

So OK Church SHopping. Be a grim reaper. Have a wonderful day anyway.

http://www.bethel1.org/history.htm
The year is 1784. The Methodist Church in America officially had its beginning. There are more than 4,000 free black men and women in the Maryland colony. In the Baltimore area, many of our free ancestors that are Christians attend the Methodist meeting houses of Strawbridge Alley and Lovely Lane. They probably chose the Methodist faith because of its anti-slavery stance. The Lovely Lane meeting house was built in 1774 and the black members were initially allowed to sit and worship as they pleased; however, as their number grew they were finding themselves restricted to certain areas for worship....

This might be the right place

"Quaker congregation would react "

That is some mental picture. : )

Absolute silence and contemplation and then someone is moved to speak. Everyone listens in absolute silence. The speaker finishes the tirade and sits down, followed by absolute silence and contemplation

I think it is time to mount & stuff the democratic party. Call in the taxidermist. It can be put on display and everyone can ooh and ahh about what a noble creature it was.

There is another way to split the donkey, one group takes the head, the other the ass. Any takers?

Bowman,

We already have the Democrats' braying ass right here.

Killing Her Softly

"How else to explain why their gal got clobbered by a pretty boy with a resume you could print on the back of his driver’s license, a Rolodex apparently limited to neo-segregationist racebaiters, campus Marxist terrorists and indicted fraudsters, and a rhetorical surefootedness that makes Dan Quayle look like Socrates. “On this Memorial Day,” said Barack Obama last Monday, “as our nation honors its unbroken line of fallen heroes — and I see many of them in the audience here today…”

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZWE3MjMyMDM0YjkwNjEyNTM4OWZhYmExNzUzMDc1OWE=

Quakers are pacifists by choice, I have my doubts that any one is truly a pacifist by nature, sort of goes against Darwin.

In the meeting I attended for many years, it is likely that there would be a response. Some white guilt, some outrage at the treatment of the downtrodden, perhaps a plea to be civil, then an uncomfortable silence until the elders shake hands and standup to signal meeting is over.

“It’s like a carnival, it’s just been fabulous,” Clinton told FOX News Saturday. “This is an important primary to make sure that the interests and needs of the people of Puerto Rico are paid attention to, and that’s what I’m trying to do.”

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/06/01/ailing-clinton-campaign-looks-to-puerto-rico-for-boost/

An important primary? LOL

There is another way to split the donkey, one group takes the head, the other the ass. Any takers?

Posted by: Bowmanc | June 1, 2008 1:12 PM

I'd say comb out the fur, brush the teeth, and buff him up a bit and he more shiney and new than the last 40 years. I'm all for that!

You all have been saying "New Democrat" as something slimey. I don't think of it that way and say, climb on board for a little way more and see how it goes. You can always jump off and say I told you so.

But right now, you have no case when there is no history to a New Democrat.

OR just go about moving the population to have a new party. I would be open to that. I would love to have a third party.

In the meeting I attended for many years, it is likely that there would be a response. Some white guilt, some outrage at the treatment of the downtrodden, perhaps a plea to be civil, then an uncomfortable silence until the elders shake hands and standup to signal meeting is over.

Posted by: Bowmanc | June 1, 2008 1:17 PM

sounds like us crawdads

Heh heh

the only important primaries are the ones Obama wins
the only votes that count are his
the only opinions that have merit are Obama's

A personality quiz about your religious and spiritual beliefs...

interesting...

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/76/story_7665_1.html

Brian: I guess you just don't get it . EVERY primary (where she wins, of course) is an IMPORTANT, GAME-CHANGING contest. And apparently that even includes areas that are outside the electoral college.

: )

An important primary? LOL

Posted by: BrianInNYC

Well, well, well Bri-Bri.

I sent a few of your comments to a Guild colleague of mine who worked with Axelrod on the Obama-like character he helped develop for the last season of The West Wing.

This guy has been consulting for Obama since his Senate run.

His response?

"He's an Obama SUPPORTER?

"With friends like him who needs enemas?"

No shit, Sherlock.

A personality quiz about your religious and spiritual beliefs...

interesting...

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/76/story_7665_1.html

Posted by: LushIsLinda | June 1, 2008 1:21 PM

Thanks Linda.....yep. I am who I think I am.

Haha apparently I'm a Unitarian, John and John Quincy would be so proud. Right Jamie? oh never mind you think they were Episcopalians.

Utopia she's moved the goal post so many times it's now at 2016!

Lest we forget: nice nom de plume, but it does seem reminisent of "Flanders Fields" do you know anything about service, or like your candidate, is it limited to bring me a latte, sweetie.

EuroTom; 6:23pm, 05/31/08. Sorry bud.....but as many people as I've seen on this blog say that there is no hate...not me.....I REALLY HATE HIM .....for his OPPORTUNISM and his HIPPOCRACY and his ARROGANCE in believing he's running the show. That's just been seen again by his dumping his church in his "quest for power". They all said O-bot wasn't in the church when Pfleger made his remarks, they didn't say his wife and daughters weren't there being indoctrinated.

In 1907 Teddy Roosevelt made a speech, delining what makes an American....quote..."When you become an American, regardless where you immigrated from or were born, You became an American in exclusion to all else". For those of you that don't understand, you can't be, Irish American, Italian American, Asian American, you can only be AMERICAN. This should also apply to African Americans who at the moment are playing the race card, the way they have ever since the inception of the NAACP. Yesterday, I saw Roland Martin, on air praying for the Obamas, is he a minister, is there an AA out there who isn't. The hippocracy nauseated me after what their church says about her.

To threaten the party with losing their vote if BO is not the nominee is below disgusting. In comparison to 2000 and the Lieberman torpedo of the recount, we got a stooge instead of an intelligent president, now it's Kerry, Kennedy, Edwards, Richardson, Dean, Pelosi, et al who are playing Lieberman's part.

To those who think I'm an uneducated fool, still fighting a losing battle, I'm not, I think she should walk and take her people with her and fuck him in the general. The puppeteers greased his path and slid him in, now let them win it for him, they couldn't do it for themselves.

I'm not politically pissed(Rita) anymore, I'm discouraged and hurt at how dirty politics is, and how it so seldom reflects the will of the people, and how it spends even less time caring about them. I know that this is naive(still hoping for fair play) but HOPE does spring eternal........

John Q attended more Episcopol services and Presbyterian services and did not consider himself a unitarian

He is buried where he is because of his parents

More delusion and ignorance of history

The world according to Obot., Nothing happened before Obama

LiL

I may have to go look up those Quakers

1. Unitarian Universalism (100%)
2. Liberal Quakers (99%)
3. Neo-Pagan (97%)
4. Secular Humanism (95%)

In 1843 the American and Foreign Sabbath Union was organized to bring together an interdenominational movement to preserve 'Sabbath-keeping'. Justin Edwards, a Boston Congregational pastor, who had been a leader of the temperance campaign, was chosen to be its executive. The next year the National Sabbath Convention was held, presided over by Congregationalist, John Quincy Adams.[2]

Additionally, I could even quote directly from the Website of the Unitarian Universalist Association to support my claim:

"In 1815, at the height of the (Unitarian) Controversy, Adams concluded that the Calvinist Samuel Adams had bested William Ellery Channing, the Unitarian's leader, in a debate on the doctrine of the Trinity. Then, a year later, when in an exchange of letters his father good-naturedly drew him into a theological debate, the junior Adams revealed that, while not approving their intolerance, he tended to follow the doctrines of the Trinitarians and Calvinists; moreover, that he wanted no part of Unitarianism."[3]

http://www.macucc.org/president/JohnQuincyAdams.htm

To threaten the party with losing their vote if BO is not the nominee is below disgusting;

Politically Pissed,

Tit-for-tat my dear. Can you honestly say that when I have been patiently wating while watch most of this site say for months that if Clinton doesn't get the Nomination, They will vote for McCain.

Do you really think all of us "Others" don't feel the sting of that remark? At least I have been silent and allowed all of this out of respect.

I see no respect what so ever coming from you. I sincerely hope you heal someday and I also sincerely hope you ere on the side of our country and our children's future.

I for one would like to see my son's life not as threatened by tours in Iraq and my grandchildren's American dream not so threatened also.

Good luck to you and heal. You sound like someone I could like.

Good post, Chef!

Y.A.T.S.I.,

Jamie and you have been most illuminating.

I'm now reflecting on the idiosyncratic abolitionist struggles of father and son. JQA probably never used the name to describe himself -- but I remember his remarkable battles against the Gag Rule in the H or F. In the end... he succeeded.

Brian is the site's master of Reading Incomprehension. The black and white in which he depicts all is really no point of view -- just an engulfing nihilism -- albeit a petty one.

Flatus -- Here you go!

This is from a friend who was actually inside the RBC meeting room yesterday afternoon.
_________________________________________

I know that today's ruling on FL and MI was extremely disappointing. I was actually inside for the second half after a very lucky moment in which four DNC officials actually gave us their seats if we promised to "yell and boo" loudly for Hillary. They were very low key about the situation and basically let us know that we needed to keep this really quiet. Upon entering the meeting, it was clear why they wanted us in there. The crowd was overwhelmingly supportive of Obama. I made sure to follow through with my end of the deal: I was very vocal. It was an extremely emotional experience in terms of feeling very alienated from the party. There was a five second pan to Donna Brazile just at the right moment (which makes me think she was already being watched for making facial gestures and the camera people were Clinton or McCain supporters) in which she made the most offensive and bored looking expression while Ickies was talking. It elicited a ton of boos and other comments. She had no idea she was on camera during that moment and it was clear that the camera person showed her purposely to expose her. It was very shocking to me that she would sit up there and make that face. It was extremely telling.

Overall, the experience was surreal. It was very tense during the second half and I kept thinking of all the people I have talked to over the last six months who have reported feeling alienated, angry, frustrated and generally left out. I remembered all of you and how disappointed you have felt. I honesty felt obligated to make some noise in that setting. We have spent weeks writing letters, sending emails, making calls and generally, doing everything we can to get the media and DNC to take us seriously. We have been respectful and considerate the entire time. I was thinking that at that moment, the country was watching and that was some of the only media time we have actually received in the last several weeks. I felt like it was my duty to be vocal and forthright with my disgust for the situation, as otherwise, how will the rest of the country (who thinks it's only Clinton out there fighting because that's all the media shows) doesn't even realize we exist? Leslie, who was inside the meeting all day, and Diana, who was also in the meeting all day, appeared to share my sentiments. Despite the fact that we were outnumbered 4 to 1 inside that meeting, from what I understand, we sounded as though we were equally matched AND we made sure to make the DNC feel as uncomfortable. While I normally wouldn't advocate this, at the same time, when will our dissent be heard? I decided that today, a little civil disobedience was called for in order to let everyone know that we here, we're not happy and we're not going anywhere. I want you to know that we were thinking of all of you today and truly feeling as though we were representing you in that meeting. I noticed the blogs were full of Obama supporters wagging their fingers and making comments about the "rude" behavior of Clinton supporters. The massive numbers of responses speaks volumes. They were shocked to see her supporters so vocal in their opposition to Obama. That type of behavior has always belonged to Obama's supporters (on a much more unaccpetable level). I think it was a real eye opener for them. Regardless, I want you to know that today, we all had our chance to voice our outrage at the meeting. Each of you had a voice in that meeting and we made sure that it was heard. Don't give up, Hillary has the popular vote and truly, all I can say is this: Denver.

Denver, LOL.

Thanks POU, and heres to truth to healing on both parts of this Primary.

Alicia. Great read thanks!

The Republicans rejected the looney right by nominating McCain and the Democrats embraced the looney left.

Sheila,

It would be helpful now that Obama is the nominee for him to reveal a few things that take a walk away from his memoirs, his declarations about changing the electoral map and the primary campaign.

I think that given his lack of national legislative history (and the stupid refusal to even convene his European Affairs sub-committee) that he talk about who he would appoint to an Obama Cabinet.

And how he would have those departments work.

Not in terms of new politics and hope and change...

But in terms of government, policy and operation.

I think he has attracted all the people who are either entraced by or willing to settle for slogans and what they feel is personal charisma.

There are a lot more who will not be inclined to vote until they know more about details.

How our government will perform under his administration -- not the claims of what will be somehow accomplished -- would go a long way to drawing independents and disaffected Democrats to pull the figurative lever his way.

Hey Dooty -- Ya know, I was just on YouTube watching that and Obama supporters are leaving comments saying they'd like to "ass-rape that bitch to shut her the fuck up."

YOU Obama people must be so proud. And if you think violent hate speech like that is an aberration, I can assure you that it is not.

I certainly don't want to unify with people who threaten me with rape, malicious maiming, threaten my family with violent acts, etc. I know that they are hiding behind the anonymity of cyberspace, but still -- what kind of person even thinks like that?

I would wonder why anyone with any decency would want to associate with them.

"I certainly don't want to unify with people who threaten me with rape,"

Very unlikely to ever happen.

One hour to go before the polls close in the So What Primary.

Alicia: we do not contend that all Clinton supporters are like GORDO and Brian de Clinton.

There are a lot of gracious and patriotic Obama supporters out there, adults even, unfortunately for your stereotyping. Here too.

Maybe some day you will recognize that.

"I certainly don't want to unify with people who threaten me with rape,"

Very unlikely to ever happen.

Posted by: BrianInNYC

Please explain.

Low turnout being reported in PR

Brian,

I repeat: please explain what your comment to Alicia meant.

"This is Barack Obama’s party now"
http://www.politico.com/playbook/

Brian,

You failure to respond and explain -- not justify -- what your comment meant is actually disturbing.

Is that because explanation equates with apology with is anathema to you?

I am not asking for apology or justification.

There are at least two possible meanings to that comment.

Please clarify.

9/11,

If its one thing I have learned about this candidate, it is his measured responce. All things in its own time.

Obama will no doubt be answering all your questions after the convention. I've read his website. Both books. All the GORDO stuff....etc. I've watched with incredulty at why he didn't do something I thought was politically more safe or intelligent and he has shown me how Time and Measure along with listening to the population is better than what I could have come up with.

I have learned to be patient. I am very sure that there is going to be more and more.

I am convi

Dog and Sheila

You are always after us to chastise a Patsi. Isn't it about time you said something to Brian about his latest nasty, vomitous posting?

hmmmm.....glitch.

Process, process and more process
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0508/10727.html

Dog and Sheila

You are always after us to chastise a Patsi. Isn't it about time you said something to Brian about his latest nasty, vomitous posting?

Posted by: Jamie | June 1, 2008 2:12 PM

Jamie, A bit trufie, don't you think? You and I emailed about it once and you didn't see any point in helping me come to terms with Patsi.....so as I have said again and again. I am not Brian's keeper.

I would ask that you don't corral me like that.

I do know for sure that all this jabbing by everyone is always going to make for more exciting fun for all, as the fighter will fight even harder.

I have seen Brian post iontelligently and calm around Maggisd, chloey and more.

Jamie,

Thank you for posting.

Brian can explain his post on his own.

Or the rest of us can speculate about what it may mean.

I asked him to as it his wording is both vague and suggestive.

I am not going to put forth the more and less innocuous versions of what he may have meant.

However, if he will not explain and he is mortally against apologizing...

This may exceed being an annoyance or a bratty provocation.

I will remind everyone that the only reason why Craig asked the community of the old Crawfordslist if they wanted Fritz to go was that he made a blatantly sexual slur against Trial Lawyer Rich and his parents.

Brian, please explain your remark.

Thank you.

Sheila,

Those posts around the people you mentioned did not allude directly to a discussion of rape in the political dialogue.

This is a serious issue in our society and not just in this election.

All Brian has to do is explain what he meant.

Neither Jamie nor I have imposed a public interpretation on it.

Those are Brian's words and it is Brian's responsibility to explain them.

If he chooses not to...

Well, that is your lovely friend.

And this becomes an issue that may exceed a matter of taste or opinion.

here is a video of one of the Clinton people. Y'all must be proud.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=VeGPzk8Oca8

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

Posted by: yo soy Horsedooty! | June 1, 2008 11:11 AM

Have you been active in Democratic politics? I have and the damn thing gets testy a lot. Not only that, but I was working with the Gay rights march and parade in Seattle one year, and the divisions and bad feelings were ugly.

I do not see anything wrong with the people standing up to so called "leaders" in any organization. I've seen a LOT worse at union confrontations and public meetings. To feign outrage or surprise is really quite amusing to me. If you've lived so many years, this cannot be the first time you've seen such anger.

Oh yeah, some of the attitudes I have read seem to say "how dare these woman rattle the cages? Don't they know their place? They should sit submissively and let their candidate and their hopes be crushed.

Democracy is messy. Get used to it.