Great video, Craig. I like the movie clips. I detect a hint of sarcasm in your
"Hollywood Ending."
In his heavily choreographed performance this Tuesday, the main character,
Obama, will appear in his Armani suit. His well-rehearsed speech carefully prepared. Director Darth Axelrod can be seen perched in the wings, wrinkling his brow, filled with angst as he watches Obama to make certain his protege follows the script.
Thanks for the link to the Lanny Davis article. I love that guy.
Of course, I agree with everything he writes. But, don't you think
the back room deal, in smoking rooms, has already been
struck by Camp Obama with the shady delegates? (I wish it weren't
so, but I fear the dirty deeds have been done). The DNC, the elitist media and the Washington insiders just didn't want a woman to become president,
especially a woman as feisty, smart and strong as Hillary Clinton.
After yesterday's acrimony, I was motivated to go back to Craig's book The Politics of Life.
Quoting from page xi in the introduction "Think again about driving your car and how people actually behave on the roads. While plenty of drivers are kind and generous, many are rude, obnoxious, and even threatening. No matter how they act elsewhere, remember this: What you see on the road is who they really are. You could be at a party with those same rude drivers, and they might put up a gentle and affable front. But in the anonymous bubble of their automobiles, they are their true selves."
I think that this analogy is applicable to posting on the internet as well. So we all provide a window to our soul, the good, the bad or ugly when we post here.
Hillary must go down in flames, if she does go down. Otherwise, her credibility as one who will fight for every inch of hallowed ground will be shattered.
According to Article 9, Section 12 of the Charter and Bylaws of the Democratic Party of the United States:
All meetings of the Democratic National Committee, the Executive Committee,and all other official Party committees, commissions and bodies shall be open to the public, and votes shall not be taken by secret ballot.
Interesting they had a private dinner the night before and at 4:15 on Saturday they held another private meeting. Then came out and did a dog and poney show and voted. Did they break any rules by doing this or by just having the public vote they covered themselves.
What time I read your mighty line,
O Mr. Q. Horatius Flaccus,
In praise of many an ancient wine--
You twanged a wickid lyric to Bacchus!--
I wondered, like a Yankee hick,
If that old stuff contained a kick.
So when upon a Paris card
I glimpsed a Falernian, I said: "Waiter,
I'll emulate that ancient bard,
And pass upon his merits later."
Professor Mendell, quelque sport,
Suggested that we split a quart.
O Flaccus, ere I ceased to drink
Three glasses and a pair of highballs,
I could not talk, I could not think;
For I was pickled to the eyeballs.
If you sopped up Falernian wine
How did you ever write a line?
Is Larry Johnson stil going to release the tape this morning at 9? Interesting that FOX never brought it back up yesterday after first reporting it. They talked to a guy by the name of Roger Stone. He's the guy who broke the Eliot Spitzer prostitution story. He's not well liked to begin with. Rivera bet $100 that the tape does not exist.
How I wish that they took their Charter seriously. But they don't.
There are two vehicles for Mrs Clinton to act, the most immediate would be a civil suit asking for injunctive relief until such time as the Charter is followed.
The second way would be to spread the word that she doesn't want to do the first, but does want the matter addressed by the credentials committee, and, if necessary, the entire convention, in August.
If this had been a governmental body in Florida, the entire crowd would be in the pokey for having violated the Govt in the Sunshine Act.
Craig.... you should have gone to the movies..... then you could have had some great popcorn instead of those nasty Nacho Doritos.....
Bowman.... I tried to read some of this blog last night..... after reading for a few minutes.... I decided my decision to ignore this blog on the weekends was the correct one for me..... I shut this damn machine off.....
great weekend to be a Boston sports fan..... the Celtics won the Eastern Conference and Manny hit his 500th home run...... YEEEHAAAAW!
Since everyone is on this, rules are rules, then did the committee break any rules by having a private meeting before they had the public vote. Based on what was said before the vote it appears a decison had been made in the private meeting. Like a straw vote.
For this discussion take Hillary and Obama out of the picture and just chat about the rules. Also if they did break the rules what happens in this case. Do you have a court case? No real Law would be broken but a party law might of been. So I don't understand this kind of rule.
It will be difficult for me to watch Obama grab the big prize tomorrow night, as the pundits at MSNBC and CNN do their victory dances. It will be even harder for me to watch Hillary concede the nomination. I hope she goes out fighting.
Geraldo is about as rich as it gets. Betting $100 told me he wasn't willing to go out on a limb all that far!
As far as all of the comments about the true window to people's soul, when some of the more vitriolic posters "apologize" and say they are ready to play nice, and then we go back and see some of the hateful language they had used in the past, it gives me an icky feeling. Honestly, I don't think I am capable of that kind of hate language to begin with, and I'm not all that moral (or is it ethical?) Whatever.
Prof Marcia, Flatus, and VA Daryl -- Yes, I thought it was troubling that there was a private dinner meeting of he RBC members the night prior to the meeting. Also the fact that their lunch break took over three hours -- after which one of the RBC members confirmed that they had been talking about the decisions they were about to make. They might not have actually cast votes, but certainly violated the spirit of the bylaws cited by VADaryl.
Vad: Is there a provision in the Rules and Bylaws that allows them to go into closed session? Could they call that extended lunch break a closed session?
Jamie, indeed. And remember the actual ending with the nonagenarian heroine having enjoyed her 'secret' for her long, long life casting it back into the deep with a smile on her face.
I thought I would share this email exchange between Donna Brazile and one of the people in the American People for Hillary Group (which was mysteriously shut down by the DNC website last week.)
Start at the bottom and read to the top to have it in order
-----Original Message-----
From: Donna Brazile [mailto:donna@brazileassociates.com]
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 1:44 PM
To: Roger
Subject: Re: NEWS FROM THE MEETING
Roger,
I respectfully disagree with your analysis.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I am not in the business of trying to
change your views. But will respectfully move on.
Donna
Sent wirelessly via BlackBerry from T-Mobile. Please excuse any typos or
grammatical errors.
-----Original Message-----
From:Roger
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 13:15:48
To:
Subject: RE: NEWS FROM THE MEETING
Or we could this time around for just once use the rules already written as
they are written and just play by those rules and not cheat at all.
If the committee had done that in August 2007 none of this would ever had
happen.
It is not Michigan's fault nor Hillary's fault or Obama fault that the
committee did not play by the rules in August 2007.
Michigan and Florida both were willing to take the 50% hit as stated in the
rules.
Obama would have left his name on even for 50%
Hillary should not be punished for a wise move that still played with in the
rules.
Only the DNC committee is the one seen here as cheating.
They cheated in August 2007 and now in May 2008.
The rules do not say those early primaries are invalid or those voters votes
won't count it only says go ahead but know you will only get 50% power for
your delegates at the national conventions...now that is playing by the
rules..
I wish you would have done that just once yesterday. I am sadden that your
resolution to the cheating was more cheating. Only yesterday was like
Harold said...aimed at the core of what we stand or rather have worked hard
to change and stand for. We have seen the enemy and they are us! We have
gone backwards and are now like GWB and the Republican in 2000.
Anger yes but more sad then anger. And Donna you and I have emailed about
Jack Cafferty and you shared so honestly that you were neutral but that is
not how you acted or voted when you go with the crowd yesterday. I am
sadden by that on a personal level.
Sorry I know you are being bomb barded with all this now.
Roger
-----Original Message-----
From: Donna Brazile [mailto:donna@brazileassociates.com]
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 12:42 PM
To: Roger
Subject: Re: NEWS FROM THE MEETING
Thanks for sharing. It's totally acceptable to be angry, but i wish they
knew the facts.
Sending this to several people because I have to work today.
Here is what you can do for me. Ask the Michigan Party what they want, the
Clinton campaign and the Obama campaign.
Take a vote and give the winner what they earned. Hmmmmm. The winner would
get half. The loser will whine. Ok. Go back, revote and see who won.
This time the Party wins.
Obama accepted. Clinton rejected.
I call it a game. But when you change the rules at the end of the game -- as
we did, we cheated.
Clinton got something. Obama got something. No one received 100 percent.
There is no need to sally forth, for it remains true that those things which make us human are, curiously enough, always close at hand. Resolve then, that on this very ground, with small flags waving and tinny blast on tiny trumpets, we shall meet the enemy, and not only may he be ours, he may be us.
Forward!
Obama says he wants to be a different type of politician, well he could of been if he would not of quit his church. But he did what all other politicians would do is get away from something could could be harmful. One thing he did do was delay that decision for a long time.
Vad: Is there a provision in the Rules and Bylaws that allows them to go into closed session? Could they call that extended lunch break a closed session?
I don't know does anybody else know the answer to these questions?
As crazy as it got here over the weekend, this forum is downright civil compared to the many other blogs I monitor. I have been blogging for Hillary since January using different handles and different IDs, but this is the only one in which I feel comfortable to use my real name.
I don't think they made that decision in advance. I think they went to a closed door because they knew it was going to get ugly and they did not want the public to see it.
I believe the general rule is, if you want to go to a private session, that decision must be made in a public session prior to the event.
Posted by: Flatus | June 2, 2008 7:57 AM
That I would agree with after attending as many City Council meetings as I have in my lifetime...they usually announce that they are going in to closed session.
I think both candidates and their supporters might pay attention to Winston Churchill:
"Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak, and courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen."
Posted by: Jamie | June 2, 2008 8:04 AM
That is not what Howard Dean asked us to do on Saturday. He told us to fall in line. I am still flabbergasted by that stuck on stupid story he told. To have the gall to compare his run for the Presidency to Hillary Clinton's is not only deluded but laughable.
However Jamie, in the spirit of your post, I am always willing to listen.
Closed session question. I'm not sure if the same laws govern DC, but I serve on a county commission that is governed by the VA Open Meetings Law and Freedom of Information Act (FOIA).
No more than two people are allowed to meet in private. Socially this can be a bit tricky as some of us are friends and do meet to socialize, but we are not allowed to discuss commission business.
If we do go into private session we have to certify that we only discussed the issues for which we are allowed to meet in private -- i.e. personnel, certain legal matters, contract negotiations.
All commission-related emails are subject FOIA, even those which are generated from personal email accounts.
There is also a record keeping requirement of three years of all correspondence related to commission business, just in case someone does want to FOIA.
Alicia: Yes, that sounds about right. I know that on some boards I have served on we were not even allowed to put official business in e-mails (that was in the chapter by-laws.).
Nitpicky me. Barnacle just di the "first woman to run for President" bzzzzzzt Wrong! There have been lots of them and some received national attention. (My favorite is and always will be Shirley Chisholm)
No one can say they won't get an Academy Award for strategy.
I always like a happy ending, so it was nice to have him dump
his church at the end to avoid problems.
Dress rehearsal is over, now the real battle starts.
Okay -- my post about open meetings laws governing VA and DC, and a legal article regarding open meetings by political parties got snagged by spam filter.
My husband just called me and said that Harold Ickes was just quoted on the radio saying: "Six people made the decision for six hundred thousand people"
MSNBC and Morning Mika is particularly maddening this morning. I have emailed her, but, of course, she will not read my email because it asking her to ask Mr. Obama the question: Do you adhere to the black liberation theology?
A wealthy old Gentleman decides to go on a hunting safari in Africa , taking his faithful, elderly Jack Russell named Killer, along for the company.
One day the old Jack Russell starts chasing rabbits and before long, discovers that he's lost. Wandering about, he notices a leopard heading rapidly in his direction with the intention of having lunch.
The old Jack Russell thinks,'Oh, oh! I'm in deep doo-doo now!' Noticing some bones on the ground close by, he immediately settles down to chew on the bones with his back to the approaching cat. Just as the leopard is about to leap, the old Jack Russell exclaims loudly, 'Boy, that was one delicious leopard! I wonder, if there are any more around here?'
Hearing this, the young leopard halts his attack in mid-strike, a look of terror comes over him and he slinks away into the trees. 'Whew!', says the leopard, 'That was close! That old Jack Russell nearly had me!'
Meanwhile, a monkey who had beenwatching the whole scene from a nearby tree, figures he can put this knowledge to good use and trade it for protection from the leopard. So, off he goes, but the old Jack Russell sees him heading after the leopard with great speed, and figures that something must be up.
The monkey soon catches up with the leopard, spills the beans and strikes a deal for himself with the leopard.
The young leopard is furious at being made a fool of and says, 'Here, monkey, hop on my back and see what's going to happen to that conniving canine!
Now, the old Jack Russell sees the leopard coming with the monkey on his back and thinks, 'What am I going to do now?', but instead of running, the dog sits down with his back to his attackers, pretending he hasn't seen them yet, and just when they get close enough to hear, the old Jack Russell says...
'Where's that damn monkey? I sent him off an hour ago to bring me another leopard!
Alicia: I, too, received that e-mail from Donna Brazile. My e-mail to her expressed the thought that they could have continued to refuse to seat the Michigan delegation, or they could have seated them at 50% as per votes actually cast, but what they did was to invent an outcome. I am absolutely certain that such a decision is against the rules, even if it had been done in public.
What's worse is that the only point of the four delegate gift to Sen Obama (in addition to assigning him all the uncommitted delegates) was that it made no real difference ... it was just to prove that his team had the power to do it.
Chloe: I don't see that happening either. Moreover I don't think it would be a wise move for Sen Clinton. On the other hand, she can endorse Sen Obama and urge me to vote for him all she wants ... this has gone beyond her and her candidacy for me. I will never vote for him unless he stands up and apologizes for what he did to ruin the reputation of the Clintons -- and even then I might not.
"I learned over the weekend why the Republicans who have seen the tape of Michelle Obama ranting about “whitey” describe it as “STUNNING.” I have not seen it but I have heard from five separate sources who have spoken directly with people who have seen the tape. It features Michelle Obama and Louis Farrakhan. They are sitting on a panel at Jeremiah Wright’s Church when Michelle makes her intemperate remarks. Whoops!! When that image comes out it will enter the politcal ads hall of fame. It will be right up there with the little girl plucking daisy petals in the famous 1964 ad LBJ used against Barry Goldwater."
"it was just to prove that his team had the power to do it."
Yep. Good old fashioned nose rubbing and another example of the arrogance of his whole team. Doing something just because you can is rarely the best way to influence others.
It's down to 10 minutes, I wonder if Johnson will still release this tape and if he does how long will it take for media to jump on it. FOX will be first but what about Obama's MSNBC and CNN.
Well you have been promising multiple times daily for weeks. The deadline is in six minutes. Anything after that with nothing to show belongs in the round file with the other trash.
Plegler quits the Obama campaign. Then gives a hate-filled speech. Obama quits church as a result (well, that and all of the calls to shut-ins from the media.)
CNN decides to do a story which has been on the blogosphere for months and months on Obama's Chicago-style politics once the nomination is completely secure for Senator Obama.
And, Hillary Clinton loses the nomination in large part because she chose to run a General Election campaign during the Primary. In contrast, Obama ran a Primary Election campaign during the Primary and won said nomination but now seems to have serious electability issues in the General.
I could go on and on but I have a full-page ad due this morning.
"...I don't think it would be a wise move for Sen Clinton maggisd
maybe not a wise move, but it's nice to fantasize.
Maggie, undoubtedly, she'll "be required" by the party to endorse him. But I couldn't forget all that's happened if I tried. I can't be loyal to a party that has behaved as the DNC has. I will vote for the person I see as best for the Country from here on out, regardless of the party they're affiliated with.
I now consider myself a life long Democrat who is now an Independent.
Chloe: It IS nice in the mornings. I read through some of the thread from late last night (for the last couple of nights actually) and the new Obama posters coming from Kos and HuffPo are, at best, predictable. I know that we welcome all new posters with open arms but the "You Clinton people" language gets so boring after a while.
Chloe: I agree with you entirely. It has been made quite evident to me that the DNC is soooooo certain that women are a lock for the party that they need do nothing at all for us ... as Harold Ickes said, the Saturday vote was a hell of a way to try and unify the party.
In my e-mail to Donna Brazile I expressed the fact that we were not a bunch of apparatchiks mindlessly toeing the party line. Even Roe v Wade is not enough of a reason to cause me to vote for a faction that has shown such utter contempt for me and my sisters.
ok, you go west......you go north........you go south....and I'll go east, toward the beach........scour the internet and report back here with that tape or dont bother to return.........that tape must be found........this is no time for silly shill-he shall-he syllogisms......FIND THAT TAPE. I'll be on the beach with a cuba libre........
Up and down weekend on the soccer fields, with a good ending Sunday - LP's team won the consolaation game 8-1, LP scored 5 - his first was 10 seconds into the game.
Bear Bryant would have described the weekend result from the rules committee as something like kissing your sister. BTW, I doubt that Ickes plans to take anything to the Credentials committee. Would be a waste of time, money and effort. The thrust will be with the SDs.
Travelling today - I'll keep it between the lines. You guys keep it civil - yeah, like that could happen.
"we were not a bunch of apparatchiks mindlessly toeing the party line. Even Roe v Wade is not enough of a reason to cause me to vote for a faction that has shown such utter contempt for me and my sisters." Posted by: maggisd
Anytime I see a similar phrase it reminds me of a moment in time when my brain just totally went on strike. I was trying to describe the old Camel billboard that blew smoke rings. For some reason this came out as "He was poking smuff bubbles".
But he has not updated that story yet. That was at 7:43 but at the end he did say: If Republican poohbahs have their way the tape will remain on ice until October. Maybe that is what going to happen.
My feeling is that if such a tape does exist, and if it is held in GOP hands, it will not come to light until after the August conventions. And then it will show up on You Tube ... the Republicans do not want to help Hillary ... they can read the polls as well as anyone and they know she is the stronger candidate.
I agree this tape exists but if the GOP has it then there is no way they would release that today, they would wait till the October surprise when he would have it's most damage. So I guess Johnson thought someone would give it to him or the press would get a hold of it but that never happened. So now back to normal.
I'm with Vad: If the tape exists, they will have to pry it from the cold, dead, lifeless hands of the Republican who has it. There is no way it will appear before October (if it really exists.)
With the Ted Kennedy news and now the death of Yves St. Laurent of a brain tumor, all heavy cell phone users might really want to consider going totally "hands free". The connection may be unproven as yet, but the seeming added risk is worth the caution.
So I googled Roger Stone and found several blog sites with references to the so-called Whitey video, but I couldn't get any of them to download. Lots of interest apparently. Every reference to Roger Stone used the phrase "political dirty trickster" ... so, do we think he might just be planting rumors or starting his own urban legend? I mean, I know that Mrs Obama has said some unfortunate things in public, but can't think that she is as stupid as to have sat and discussed Whitey with Farrakhan.
LJ said he would provide more info this morning, not necessarily the MO video. Expect details to be fed out gradually - this is the way it works. Can't throw info out "cold" - he has been laying the groundwork. Remember, don't want the Clinton campaign's "fingerprints" on this Obama takedown.
maggi.......not "lately" you mean.....it could be well before obama's keynote speech.........20 years of membership........lots of tape to search..............
After about 10 minutes I got larry's site to display and no update yet. It's almost 1/2 hr, I'll give him till 10 and then I give up on this one until october.
"Craig do you know anything about this so called tape? -- Posted by: vadaryl"
dunno a thing, could be a hoax like the imaginary photo of George Bush dancing naked on a table that so many wasted so much time talking about in 2000.
Personally, my prayers go out to Sen Kennedy's surgeon ... that his hands be steady and sure ... I think that the decision to undergo surgery must be a good sign ... that the tumor has not yet developed arms ... at least I fervently hope so.
There is no tape folks. This has just become a traffic driver for noquarter. It is about money.
If there were a tape, It would have been released. Now is the time to cause maximum damage. Release the tape now you cause chaos in the Democratic party and you avoid the blowback that would occur in a later release. McCain can look good by loud and often condennation of the tape.
One other point, It would have to be a hell of a tape to do any real damage.
You might be right, that something like this should be put out gradually. Also maybe he wants someone else to put it out so that Clinton campaign's won't leave any "fingerprints" on it.
vadaryl: Why would there be Clinton fingerprints on a tape in the possession of Roger Stone?
To be honest, I can believe Mrs Obama talking about Whitey...I just don't see her interacting at a conference with Farrakhan. Primarily because it strikes me as against his character to have a sit-down discussion with a female...not his style, somehow.
Listen up folks: Even if there was a tape of Michelle Obama dancing naked on a table (just last week), it wouldn't be enough to derail Obama supporters. There isn't ANYTHING that can be said or shown about the Obamas that will cause any waiver in their support.
It's getting close. My question is: will Obama be able to reign in enough superdelegates to make his Tuesday night something truly special, or will there be that awkward set of days to follow in which everyone is waiting for the last couple people needed to meet the threshold to endorse?
Just checked in but have to cut grass.Just want to say how nice the early morning crew is.No name calling or hate filled messages.Wish it could always be this way.We can agree to disagree without all the vitrial.
Vadaryl
LJ is either lieing or being suckered by people way smarter than him.
After all this silly chatter has to be very entertaining to Republican operatives. Their sides must be sore from all the the laughter at Democratic antics this weekend.
I'm ready for a discussion about the rest of the election. We don't have anyone running for Senate this year in California .... but what are the reports from other states?
I see a pick-up for Dems in Colorado and New Mexico (the Udall men), as well as Virginia and New Hampshire. Al Franken seems to be in trouble in Minnesota, but reports are that Elizabeth Dole is being strongly challenged in North Carolina. For some reason, the polls currently show that Hillary runs stronger in NC than either Obama or McCain... something not right about that one.
Anyway, four more Dems for the Senate ... judicial appointments will be safe no matter who wins.
PU: No, there won't be any awkward days. There will be politicians chomping at the bit to provide the vote for the magic number. These are politicians we are talking about.
"The other observation about Obama’s retreat from Trinity is that it took him three weeks to distance himself from Wright and he departs now insisting that he’ll not denounce the church. This is a guy who’s indecisive or, worse yet, a potential President who can’t turn a bad idea loose. He’s been accused of turning his debate gaffes into foreign policy — the pledge to meet with scoundrels and dictators without preconditions, for example.
If there is such a tape, I don't see the point in bringing it out gradually. How would you do that anyway? But from my point of view, it would be revealing if Michelle sat at a table talking to Farrakhan, even without a "whitey" statement. But what do I know? I would think enough had already come out to ruin a candidate.
Just meditate for a minute of the words Pfleger spoke and how inflammatory and racist and sexist they are, and then remember how enlightened and intelligent people have been and are still on tv excusing it and justifying it, and it may be that nothing will affect Obama's becoming the democratic nominee. But president? Never.
Perhaps you're right. Does Obama need a high-profile endorsement today, somebody like, oh, I don't know, Al Gore, to get the party started and goad some of the undecideds? I kind of feel there needs to be an elder statesman, or some higher up to get things rolling. In order for Obama to pull of the requisite number, he's gonna need to have about 25 + delegates before tomorrow night, and I'm skeptical that it will happen.
I agree with those who say the tape will not matter whenever it comes out,if it exists.Nothing sticks to Obama.Only a fraction of what has already came out would have been enough to sink any other candidate,but this one is the Messiah and nothing can touch him.So forget about the tape.It will be useless.
Ruth
PU: I believe the whole thing might already planned out (who will provide the magic vote.) That person could very well be Al Gore. Or, it could be Nancy. Hard to say.
I don't think the tape (if it exists) has to be released to be damaging. what I found most interesting in the 7:43 update was that financial backers are asking the campaign if such a tape exists and they are being stonewalled. Just the possibility that it exists might be enough to keep some SD's from moving right now. Do they want to take the risk?
P of U: What is interesting to me ... I went back to the basic delegate count today and found that Sen Obama leads Sen Clinton by 115 votes (including the 4 delegates gifted to him on Saturday, I guess)... and that he needs a total of 379 SDs while she needs a total of 494 SDs.
Bearing in mind that SD votes don't count until they are cast, it seems abundantly clear that Sen Obama is relying as heavily on the old-style politicians as Mrs Clinton would have had to do.
I know you take a different view, but were I Mrs Clinton I would insist on being able to have my name put in nomination and my votes counted at the Convention, even if I knew I would fall short.
I think...but cannot be sure...that seeing such an event take place might actually mollify some Clinton supporters.
Harold Ickes has been warning SDs for months about a Repub "October Surprise" to be dropped on Obama. In this sort of thing, always look at the timing in addition to the source. Johnson began the "Whitey" story a few weeks ago, it has spread. Hours after the disgraceful DNC theft on Sat, he posted an info alert. Remember, Obama is not the nominee until the roll call vote in Aug - plenty of time for the video to come out and "destroy" Obama. The anti-McCain Repub billionaire can be used as cover by the Clinton campaign.
I'm glad to see the police in NYC are finally doing something about all the rampant drug use there. They busted Tatum O'Neal last night for trying to buy crack cocaine. Go Red Wings and go Lakers!
GORDO: I would hate to think that the Clintons would use such a tape, particularly in light of what was done to them in the past. I am pretty certain that the Clinton campaign knew about the Rev Wright and TUCC, since it has been reported on since at least early 2007 ... but they did not circulate the information and, despite what some have said, Sen Clinton resisted commenting on Rev Wright for weeks...and then her response to questioning was quite mild.
That's definitely a possibility; however, in this newfangled era of image-orientated, for-show conventions, I don't know if it will happen. In order to mollify the Clinton supporters, the best option seems to me to offer her a high-profile cabinet position, as some reports are already suggesting.
wow... I see some of you actually took my joking about Craig's choice of snack seriously..... com'on lighten up..... it's June and it's a beautiful day here in the northeast....
maggi..... I'm excited that Jeanne Shaheen will be replacing John Sununu in the Senate here in NH....
just want to give a head's up for all you George Lakoff fans.....
he will be on for a full hour with Diane Rehm this morning during her second hour..... 11am to 12pm EST.....
PofU: Note that I said some of her supporters. Nothing will satisfy me ... except perhaps an apology or what I deem to be a heartfelt expression of regret for not condemning those of his surrogates who spent so much time trashing the reputation of Pres Clinton. I want to hear him include Pres Clinton and LBJ in his pantheon of past Democratic leaders of whom we can and should be proud, and not dismiss the good they did.
BTW, I asked you a few days ago, in your studies of Utopian societies, did you ever study New Harmony Indiana and the Owenites? Just curious.
Well Craig, good video again. Stay away from the Doritos; they are addicting ! :-) Obama is winning and I see no reason to fight about it any further. What I do think the whole process raises is the issue of how delegates are awarded, i.e. giving stronghold Democratic regions more delegates per vote than areas that have been traditionally Republican. Since the African American community votes nearly 90% for Democrats, this naturally benefitted Mr. Obama in a manner that I think exaggerated his win over Hillary Clinton. However, it's a new day, and the good thing out of this, I think, is that the angry Clinton supporters, and the Clintons themselves, are going to fight for a fairer system in the future. If I were in the states now, I would attend my local party meetings to push reform ideas. I am sure others will be doing their part.
I think Senator Clinton's name goes into nomination unless she resigns and releases her delegates (usually accompanied by an endorsement ala John Edwards). It is one of the ways she would be honored.
The first ballot is taken with all the states voting their delegates as earned or endorsed. Illinois will probably be skipped so that at the appropriate moment, they could be called upon to put their Senator's name over the top for the nomination followed by lots of balloons and silly stuff.
Then a motion is usually made to make the nomination unanimous though this one might be tricky given some of the hard feelings as it is usually by acclimation and I could imagine a lot of booing going on.
It's been all planned out that Tuesday night or early Wednesday this will be all over. It's just what Hillary will do next. My gut feeling is she will take it to the convention with the hope that Obama will make a big mistake and she can say I'm still here.
I'm willing to bet that you're going to get some, but not all of what you are requesting. Unfortunately, given the way these things work, it might not be until the convention that we get a kind of glance back toward the Clinton years and their influence on the party. As for LBJ, I'm not sure.
In terms of my work: no, I primarily look at late 19th/early 20th century American literature. Utopia in my studies is more of a structural heuristic that links up with Marxist notions of futurity, or post-national subjectivity. I know that sounds like a lot of jargon, and it probably is to anyone outside of English studies, but unfortunately no, I haven't had time to look at those groups. Do you have any suggestions on where I should start?
Craig.... you should have gone to the movies..... then you could have had some great popcorn instead of those nasty Nacho Doritos.....
Posted by Rebellious Renee
LOL... I thought for sure I'd be the only one making the Doritos comment. Popcorn is ever more healthy, of course remembering to use little or no salt and stay away from the butter.
EuroTom: I would like to believe that the weighted delegate apportionment system will be reformed, but I seriously doubt that it will. I rather think that, instead, it will be held out as a carrot in various Latino communities as an example of how powerful their voices might become if they voted en masse for the Democrats.
I kind of agree with you. The question then becomes: who will stick by her. At best she will be seen as a fighter for her supports, but at worst she will be viewed as a villainous figure, hell-bent on ripping apart the party. If she chooses to take it to the convention, I don't think she'll have many Washington supporters.
PofU: I take it, then, that you have read Samuel Butler. (I think that's his name as I recall from English Lit) and his novel about Erehwon?
As to the Owenites and New Harmony Indiana, start off by googling it. They have an interesting "library" there called the Workingman's Institute, established in the early 1800s ... there were two separate Utopian communities there .... the Rappites followed by the Owenites.
My father's family lived in that area from app 1807 through app 1932, although they were not part of the Utopian community themselves but rather New Light Baptists.
I heard this the other day on NPR
With the tie vote , there is an interesting problem for Obama
If HRC's name is placed in nomination for VP
The super delegates are not bound Obama supporters they could vote for Obama for president. But they don't have to vote for his choice of VP. They could instead vote HRC instead.
There isn't that more fun than worrying about that silly tape.
Any candidate who's been around as long as Hillary has to know when to throw in the towel. I just can't believe that she can't accept losing. There has to be something out there that is keeping her going. Just like her War vote, she stood her gound on that one. knowing taking the easy way out would be, I was wrong on my vote. If it was me I would of quit months ago. We all hate losing. They will do just fine no matter what way she goes, so I am not buying that she will be threw if she fights on. The party won't be broken, they might be stronger.
Jamie: TY for the explication. It was a good refresher. I was fortunate enough to be at the 1960 convention in LA and remember vividly when the votes went "over the top" ...
PofU: If Sen Clinton suspends her campaign in the interim, there can be nothing wrong with having a real roll call vote. That's how the system is meant to work. Refer to Jamie's post ...
That's correct. It would strike me as weird to merely suspend the campaign, as, say Edward's did, simply because there are no more primaries. But who knows.
Also, do you expect her, after this week, to endorse Obama? And if not, what do you think the consequences will be?
if moe howard dean had half of the moxie hillary has he may have risen above the media's incessant playing of his scream and beaten back kerry the loser in 04.
This would be a good question for Craig: what's the precedent for something like this, historically? When's the last time a close-fought primary ended with one opponent refusing to endorse the other, suspending his/her campaign indefinitely, etc.? This question requires a long memory.
Well he was talking about the children going to school in safety and celebrating Purim so let us hope definitions were included when he was practicing the speech.
The super delegates are not bound Obama supporters they could vote for Obama for president. But they don't have to vote for his choice of VP. They could instead vote HRC instead.
Jack Posted by: whskyjack
Wonder why no one ever mentions that on CNN, etc.?
I hadn't heard it, but it's makes sense.
When Wolf asked several people that question "Do you think Hillary would make a good running mate for Obama" yesterday, they all said that the decision for veep was up to Obama.
When I go to the movies, I actually prefer the warm pretzel bites...but instead of the cheese, I dip them in mustard and jalapeno peppers...ohhhyeahhhh!!
Anyone see Sex and the City? I was surprised at how many men were at the theater!!
PofU: You raise an interesting question. It will answer a lot of questions. Were it me, I would not do any endorsing or campaigning until after the Convention -- but that's just me.
"Barack may have quit his church but his religious problems are not over. Barack Obama has a Nation of Islam problem that will receive more attention in the coming days.
It also should come as no surprise that Barack hired two members of the Nation of Islam to work on his staff—Jennifer Mason and Cynthia K. Miller.
...Jeremiah Wright and Michael Pfleger ... listed as spiritual advisors to Barack Obama and also are very close to Louis Farrakhan, forces the question about Barack’s faith and beliefs.
...Louis Farrakhan has been careful to use Tony Rezko as the intermediary in his relationship with Barack. This is not guilt by association, this is guilt because of actual relationship."
Jack... LOL... Popcorn is GOOD for you if you don't load it with the extras. I probably use a bit too much olive oil in my foods, not on popcorn, I am not eating it anymore... but, the high fats are definitely not so healthy.
I gotta say I feel better than I have for a long time, and customers are coming in and saying I look 10 years younger... :-) The fight will go on... after losing there is keeping it off of course, and I am aware of that struggle all too well.
Anyone see Sex and the City? I was surprised at how many men were at the theater!! Posted by: LushIsLinda
They probably didn't have a choice, being with their wife or girl friend. Mine wasn't excited about the idea, so I didn't push it. I'll see it this week though. How was it?
chloe: Sen Clinton is not required to endorse anyone. She would most certainly do so after the Convention ... the real question is, would she do so before the Convention.
Jamie: My father's family lived for over a century near the Owenite community in So Indiana ... the same Robert Owens you mention. This was his father's family. Interestingly, his mother's family were from Lanark originally ... they were Royalists who emigrated around about 1652.
The other side of the family are Ukrainian Jews from near Kiev ... their village has now been reclaimed by the forest.
Ain't America a grand country?
You raise an interesting question. It will answer a lot of questions. Were it me, I would not do any endorsing or campaigning until after the Convention -- but that's just me.
Posted by: maggisd
It doesn't make much sense for her put her "stamp of approval" on him until he has definitely and undeniably taken hold of the candidacy, or does it?
GORDO: The Rezko-Farrakhan thing is of great interest to me. Sen Obama has stated that he was invited to Chicago by Rezko at some point (not clear when) to work with him in real estate, but that he (Obama) turned him down. Rezko began his career in Chicago working with / for Farrakhan in community development.
There is a whole nexus there of people who seem to have made a career of skimming from government grants, all the while railing against the powers that be.
Sen Clinton is not required to endorse anyone. She would most certainly do so after the Convention ... the real question is, would she do so before the Convention. Posted by: maggisd
Maggi,
I do see her as "required" by the party to do whatever they want her to do. That's the way I see her thinking, she's loyal. I intentionally used that word.
chloe: I personally don't think so. If it were me, I'd go back home, take a really long bubble bath, put on my best face and go back to the Senate for the time being. And just wait. I don't see that she needs to do much of anything at this point.
Jamie: Thank you very much. I've added you to my favorites. The Owenite Workingman's Institute in New Harmony Indiana is still functioning today.
I actually had no idea that the Owenite movement originated in New Lanark ... I have always been fascinated by the fact that my paternal grandparents' families lived within 10 miles of each other in what is now Davie Co NC but that they met on a street corner in Washington DC after the war...they grew up about two counties apart in Indiana but never knew each other prior to WWI.
As to Scotland...in my two trips to the UK I never managed to get farther north than Oxford....I kept getting sidetracked by my need to visit literary sites.
Linda: Straight men? I am curious because I don't have any friends to go with here but I don't want to drag my husband if it will emasculate him...
--Ally
men with women, men with men, women with women, a few men with a couple women, a few women with 1-2 men...the theater was packed!!!
I don't think anyone thought about anything other than we were all there to enjoy the movie!!
Jim would have gone, with just me, but he didn't want to do "lunch with the gurlz"...he went golfing 8~)
OK Linda. Thanks for the info. My husband is not a manly man anyway...I just felt bad dragging him there with me if he had the only boys in the theater. On the other hand, I don't know how popular the show is here in Iowa anyhow...the theater might not be that crowded!
chloe: Eventually we will know a great deal more than we do. Lynn Sweet at the Chicago Sun Times has been reporting on Sen Obama for years ... but she is the type who doesn't leap to conclusions, only reports solid facts.
It's not that I find Sen Obama's associations necessarily sinister ... what I don't like is that I feel we are being asked to accept a pig in a poke ... a man who purports to be above politics but whose entire career (since about the age of 25) seems to have been that of an ordinary politician.
It's the old Wizard of Oz thing ... pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. I am the Great and Powerful Oz ...
"I kept getting sidetracked by my need to visit literary sites. "
Now how could you do a "literary" tour and not visit Ayrshire for Robert Burns. It is a pleasant walking tour and the lunch at the "Brig O' Doon" Hotel is very nice
And a lot of broad political reasons to do so.
One is to change some of the rules for selecting delegates.
There are other issues that will be fought for by the DLC types to prevent the party from becoming totally controled by the left wingers. Power wise at this point she is in a stronger position than Obama. He needs her. She doesn't need him. She can go home and take that long hot bath secure in her position. Her people are loyal they aren't going anywhere.
While I don't begrudge Sen Kennedy's getting the best medical care money could buy, I know since I don't have any insurance doctors would send me home to die.
It's not that I find Sen Obama's associations necessarily sinister.. Maggisd
Maggi,
I do think you can begin to judge a person by his associations, as they are choices he has made.
I don't feel we have the whole picture here yet, but there is a pattern. And unless I see a break in that pattern somewhere along the way, what else am I suppose to judge him by. He has very little on record. And I do think that we attract, and gravitate toward, others who are like us.
Jack: I couldn't agree with you more. The SDs might desert her, and some of her professional campaign staff may want to join the other campaign so they can be gainfully employed, but her pledged delegates are leverage. And, if Sen Obama is as smart as everyone says he is, he will know that having her name be put into nomination, and her supporters allowed a little chanting, and even allowing the vote to go forward will be symbolically very important for the Democratic Party.
......if Sen Obama is as smart as everyone says he is, he will know that having her name be put into nomination, and her supporters allowed a little chanting, and even allowing the vote to go forward will be symbolically very important for the Democratic Party. Posted by: maggisd
But Maggi,
when has his campaign ever done anything this agreeable in the past?
I don't know how often larry Johnson's blog is updated on a normal day but it's interesting that there has been no update since 7:43 this morning. On Sunday it was updated a lot during the day. Just to save some face he should say something why he did not post the tape at 9.
chloe: I do agree with your overall sentiment. In his defense, however, I want to say that Sen Obama's background and upbringing may have worked against him here. He did not come to live inside an African-American community until he was in his mid-20s. The community within which he found himself turned out to be fairly radical, but he may not have realized how non-mainstream some of these people were.
On the other hand, I continue to be troubled by Rev Wright's statements "we groomed him for years for this" and, "I always told him he would have to cut his ties with me some day." The man may have a jumped up opinion of his own influence ... but equally we may have a candidate with a hidden agenda. I just don't know.
chloe: They have never done anything agreeable. And, the events of Saturday were, to me, the final piece of evidence that his campaign advisors want nothing more than to grind her into the dirt. That Michigan delegate deal was so terribly egregious.
I wish I would of copied his first link about announcing the tape on Monday at 9. Then he had a comment that some network had a copy of the tape and now nothing. The network comment included the FOX's Rivera interview about the tape.
Mr Demagogue: I was thinking earlier today that if Sen McCain were the John McCain of 2000, Sen Obama wouldn't have a ghost of a chance to win .... on the other hand, if wishes were horses, as they say ....
I hope your weight loss is helping you to feel healthier and happier. Being able to lose that much, absent illness, is a major accomplishment. Be proud of yourself!
He did not come to live inside an African-American community until he was in his mid-20s. The community within which he found himself turned out to be fairly radical, but he may not have realized how non-mainstream some of these people were. maggisd
Maggi,
yes, I have seen it that way too.
I don't think it was planned by him that way in the beginning, and I do think that most of his intentions were good.
But 20 years?
Doesn't some of that rub off onto him when you choose to keep yourself and your family exposed to that point of view for all that time. His children were actually born into it through his and Michelle's own decision.
Not only do they believe in the meanness of American and the white men who have run it, but they also believe that they're victims of it. There's nothing wrong with being aware of the unfairness of what's happened in our history, but why not learn more about how to change it instead of teaching hate.
Nah, we'll leave that to you Clintonites. You guys seem good at finding excuses for EVERYTHING. MSM against you? Check. All men against you? Check. Women not supporting Clinton against you? Check. Caucuses against you? Check.
chloe: I agree with you that with 20 years of exposure, some of the anti-American sentiment may well have rubbed off on him.
Remember in this context that he lost his first political contest to Bobby Rush ... a man who can barely string two words together, but an old-time radical par excellence. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think a former Black Panther.
Therefore, if Obama wished to be successful in politics, he needed to be a little less whitebread. I actually think that Obama didn't intend to run for President when he was first elected to the Senate .... otherwise he would have left TUCC much earlier ... there are at least 8 other UCC churches in the general vicinity. Somehow or other, he decided now was the time and he jumped in hoping he would be on a roll before these associations came out. Once his campaign invented the story that the Clintons were out to destroy him, and the media sustained it, no new information was relevant.
Being able to lose that much, absent illness, is a major accomplishment. Be proud of yourself! Posted by: Flatus
The important thing is to take it off slowly (1-2 lbs. week) therefore changing your eating habits in such a way that you will continue eating that way for the rest of your life.
I read that the body is in a constant state of hunger, and when you think of it that way, you don't feel guilty for being hungry too often. Just eat very "nutrionally full" foods, and the weight gain stops. For me, lots of fruit does it.
Did you "realize" that fruit is "plant ovaries". Once I thought of it that way, fruit took on a whole new meaning. All the ingredients for life are in that one apple.
the last paragraph in your link, Whsykjack, was quite moving, i thought -- and a process that many Democrats, including so many here, are about to face:
"This election has ruined a lot of friendships. I have tried hard not to let it ruin mine. But smears of this type are unforgivable. I have been forebearing. Perhaps, in retrospect, I have been too forebearing. That's all I say. This is too painful to me." (BoomanTribune.com)
I think his plan was always to run for President. It was just a matter of timing, and he said himself that "this was the moment", although originally he probably planned to wait longer.
I also think, since it took so long for the church to become an issue, that the campaign thought it was a problem it could deal with.
And now that he thinks he's got the nomination, he feels that the sacrifice of quitting his church is worth the prize.
Craig: Wow ... truer words have never been spoken, my husband and I have been together a long time. We have known each other since high school but we have never been so at odds politically in our lives. We could always discuss politics but now our discussions end up in shouting matches.
As someone mentioned yesterday, Barack Obama will go down as one of the most divisive figures in the 21st century.
I have been a lifelong Democrat and because of Barack Obama I am now a declared Independent. I never thought that would happen to me. I think it is safe to observe that Democratic women will not come back to the fold like a dutiful wife this November.
Craig: What have you heard about the Democratic leadership's thoughts about Hillary's women supporters? Are they really taking us for granted like it seems?
As someone mentioned yesterday, Barack Obama will go down as one of the most divisive figures in the 21st century.
Posted by: GAKaren
Karen, and I don't think it became divisive because he is African American. I think it was strategic by his campaign and him. The very person who promised to end the divisiveness and replace it with unity-and it has come to this. This election was less about unity and more about winning, and I fear that his administration would be the same.
GAKaren: One thing we can probably all say about this particular campaign ... a contest between Mr Too-cool-for-school and the girl who sat in the front row and knew all the answers was bound to raise tensions far beyond the political.
I think crushes of any kind are healthy. One of the main reasons I continue to tune in to Abrams is my unfettered love for Dan. Regardless of whether or not he is a cad (as has been reported.)
Why was leaving this church so sad and painful for Barack? It's not as if he can't go to another church. He's not blocked out of the Christian community. But then he could have chosen another church a long time ago.
What did he find so compelling at this particular one? Was it Jeremiah Wright? Was it the fellow-worshipers who stand and cheer at racist and sexist and hateful sermons? Whe is it so sad for him to leave? He should be so outraged he should be running out of there.
I can't see that he was some innocent person not realizing what it was all about. That argument would have more credibility, I believe, if he had been born and raised in this particular theology and church. To think that as a grown, mature, intelligent man he chose it is to me unforgivable.
Chloe: I agree with you entirely. I think his campaign advisors Axelrod and Ploufe saw (after New Hampshire) that his only sure path to the nomination was to demonize the Clintons.
You can be both too cool for school AND sit in the front row while knowing all of the right answers. I know. I was that kid. And you'll outshine the single minded person each and every time.
Chloe, Karen and Maggie: The facts are the facts. The only way for Obama to win was to destroy the Clintons (and, in particular Bill Clinton). They had to do something about the fondness many Democrats had for him (and, by association, for her). The thing is, Obama did it in a way that was so masterful, nobody saw it coming (and the media fell for it hook, line and sinker.) I suppose we should have some respect for a winning strategy.
If you combine the smear campaign with the fact that so many young people don't even remember the Clinton years (along with a string of caucus states and old grudges), you have a nominee.
Question for all of you: What's the policy on health insurance for politicians after they leave office? Some woman at the beach last night was trying to get people to sign a petition that would put an amendment on the November election to end all insurance benefits for politicians once they are no longer in office. Is this a state or federal policy that politicians may still receive health insurance eventhough they are no longer in office? I didn't sign this petition , by the way. I don't sign anything without a lawyer present! LOL!
And the Clintons decided to marginalize Obama by making him the "black candidate" so that it would appear that he had a limited appeal. So let's call it even.
Corey: There is no such thing as a Federal initiative so this must be something that applies only to your state. I am certain the rules vary from state to state.
One thing that Sen. Obama and his team need to realize that like it or not, fair or not, every single one of pundits, bloggers, the trollers on the internet is one of their representatives until such time as he speaks out against them.
All of the women who follow politics are getting bombarded with this garbage and trying to discount it over and over, but having the sensation that failure to address is acceptance of the attitude
Would he want his wife and daughters treated the way Sen. Clintons supporters have been treated or would he want them to hear the threats and vile suggestions?
Both campaigns probably need to say something about all of the troll spew, but as the one likely to win, the major obligation rests with Sen. Obama.
That old chant of "No justice, No Peace" is probably in effect with a slight alteration, "No denial, No vote".
No, I disagree that the Clintons made Obama the "black candidate". He did that himself. He is the one who put race right up front when he gave his speech to try and save himself when the Wright videos came out.
Mr Democrat: It is my belief that the Clintons did no such thing. The racist meme stemmed almost entirely from the Obama campaign talking points memo widely circulated in SC and then took on a life of its own.
Mr. Democrat: I don't agree with your assertion that the Clintons made him the "black candidate."
"More than any other maneuver, this one has brought Clinton into disrepute with important portions of the Democratic Party. A review of what actually happened shows that the charges that the Clintons played the "race card" were not simply false; they were deliberately manufactured by the Obama camp and trumpeted by a credulous and/or compliant press corps in order to strip away her once formidable majority among black voters and to outrage affluent, college-educated white liberals as well as college students. The Clinton campaign, in fact, has not racialized the campaign, and never had any reason to do so. Rather the Obama campaign and its supporters, well-prepared to play the "race-baiter card" before the primaries began, launched it with a vengeance when Obama ran into dire straits after his losses in New Hampshire and Nevada--and thereby created a campaign myth that has turned into an incontrovertible truth among political pundits, reporters, and various Obama supporters. This development is the latest sad commentary on the malign power of the press, hyping its own favorites and tearing down those it dislikes, to create pseudo-scandals of the sort that hounded Al Gore during the 2000 campaign. It is also a commentary on how race can make American politics go haywire. Above all, it is a commentary on the cutthroat, fraudulent politics that lie at the foundation of Obama's supposedly uplifting campaign."
=============
My daughter is a manager at an AMC Theater here & has been talking about how much popcorn & other snacks have been going up, especailly since the beginning of the year .. but, at least we can get in free to the movies, so that helps ..
!:^)
viv
Usually the insurance benefits are part of a "retirement" package and those rights and privileges for elected officials vary from state to state as to length of service. Your state may have some continuation of access to a state plan at those group rates even though they may have only served one term and have no retirement benefits. This could be a very favorable package with a high cost to the tax payers.
The "race speech" was hailed as the most magnificent speech since the I have a Dream Speech when, in fact, it is the most divisive speech ever given. Obama called for a discussion about race in order to cover himself for J. Wright's "bombastic" comments from the pulpit. I have the sense that right then and there, upon his invitation, he was suddenly the black candidate. Prior to that time, it was inconsequential.
This is the Larry Johnson post from Sat, notice he never said the video itself would be available at that time.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BREAKING NEWS: Michelle’s Whitey Problem
"New and dramatic developments. This is a heads up. I’ll post the news Monday morning by 0900 hours. Now I know why people who have seen the videotape say it is stunning. Barack’s headaches are only starting."
Ally: Thanks for that post. The writer says exactly what I feel.
It is interesting that Scott McClelland's book has focused the media cameras on themselves and what they have seen is not pretty. It's would be comical to see how the media has suddenly realized their role as cheerleaders in the lead-up to the war was so obvious to anyone with a brain if the blood of our armed forces and innocent Iraqis were not dripping from their hands.
Who knows? Perhaps four or five years from now the media will suddenly realize they propped up a very undeserving candidate for President in 2007-2008(deja vu from 1999-2000) for the sake of a good story.
Ratings trumps reality every time these days.
It would seem the media gravitates to empty and shallow. How else can you explain their adoration of W in 99-00 and Obama 07-08?
....The thing is, Obama did it in a way that was so masterful, nobody saw it coming ....Ally
Ally, I have not seen Obama masterful at anything (unless you count speeches that are written by someone else).
His campaign was masterful, and there were forces behind that campaign that I can't even begin to fathom.
Chloe: I agree with you entirely. No question but that Axelrod, who looks and speaks like a major schlumpf acrually operates a brilliant political machine. How this translates into governance is unknown and unknowable ... at one time it was a widely held view that Karl Rove also operated a brilliant political machine.
Perhaps four or five years from now the media will suddenly realize they propped up a very undeserving candidate for President in 2007-2008(deja vu from 1999-2000) for the sake of a good story. Posted by: GAKaren | June 2, 2008 12:30 PM
Karen, do you really think it was for the sake of a good story? My husband said it was for good ratings too, but I always felt that MSNBC and Cnn to a lesser extent slanted the field because they wanted Obama to get the nomination since the beginning and were out to make sure that happened.
But I don't know why. Maybe just a hate of the Clintons?
Obama is masterful at one thing ... getting powerful people to prop him up and push him along.
Obama is much like George W. Bush in that way the only difference is he has a functioning brain and he came from a vastly different economic background than W.
Obama would certainly be a successful attorney at a prestigious law firm which is much more than W would have ever attained on his own. But Obama would not be where he is at today without some very powerful mentors and patrons.
I'll give him this much ... he sure knows how to game a system while purporting that he has an untarnished halo. And yes, he does possess Reagan teflon.
Oh, I like that idea of Hillary going Independent. I believe she could actually win it and then she wouldn't be obligated to put her influence and status behind the Obama campaign.
Chloe: Probably a little bit of both. Obama is an attractive figure. He photographs beautifully, can often spout a nanosecond soundbyte and he is a minority. All the makings of great ratings. The bonus? The media can use this guy to savage the Clintons. The Clintons have always been the whipping boy/girl of the media and the pundits are enjoying every minute of this.
Chris Matthews has never had as much fun in his life since he ogled W in his flight suit.
The D brain trust is going to count every delegate in FL and MI as 1/2 vote. WOW. Did you know the D party use to count every Afro- American as 2/3 of a white vote. Now the D party has degraded their white female voters to something less than cannon fodder. The R party could not have orchestrated such an event. Way to go Dean.
That is an old quote, and that is exactly what you do to your enemies. You kill them, and as many of them as you can, cause if you don't you risk them coming back and killing you. So stop being worried, worried. Be only worried if BHO is elected POTUS.
....The thing is, Obama did it in a way that was so masterful, nobody saw it coming ....Ally
Ally, I have not seen Obama masterful at anything (unless you count speeches that are written by someone else).
His campaign was masterful, and there were forces behind that campaign that I can't even begin to fathom.
Posted by: chloe | June 2, 2008 12:31 PM
At the very least, Obama's Mastery is the choices he made with his staff and his decisions in the way he raised money and influenced voters.
You can't take that away from him and certainly Hillary Clinton and her staff proved earily on the Arrogance doesn't win an election.
You certainly have sour grapes here. Keep eating that variety and you will only get sicker.
Everytime I take a few weeks off and then return I see more and more new niks and less and less old niks. Where the hell is Sheila, dog, RR, Blue, Patsi, pogo, harborwoman etc???? Who am I suppose top fight with???? This is so sad.
You can't take that away from him and certainly Hillary Clinton and her staff proved earily on the Arrogance doesn't win an election. - Political Operative
I don't know about that, Barack Obama is sure proving that Arrogance is winning an election at this point in time. The Annointed One is as arrogant as the rest of them. Not to mention thin-skinned.
Gordo thanks for finding out what Larry Johnson posted the other day. Then what he did at 7:43 is exactly what he said he would do. It just came before 9. I thought he said he would post the tape but reading it again he never did.
BREAKING NEWS: Michelle’s Whitey Problem
"New and dramatic developments. This is a heads up. I’ll post the news Monday morning by 0900 hours. Now I know why people who have seen the videotape say it is stunning. Barack’s headaches are only starting."
Over 17 million people have now voted for Hillary Clinton, said advisor Mandy Grunwald. Mandy you need to reduce that figure by 1.3 million as the D party is only is only allowing the states of FL and MI 1/2 vote. 1/2 of 2.6 million voters equal 1.3 million.
Barack Obama is sure proving that Arrogance is winning an election at this point in time. The Annointed One is as arrogant as the rest of them. Not to mention thin-skinned.
Posted by: GAKaren | June 2, 2008 1:07 PM
I don't think so. Real Strategic play by play and point for point. Not bad for someone who you think is less experienced.
And as far as arrogance? I'd say we have witnessed arrogance mixed with humility. Humility that has been witnessed again and again.
Hillary Clinton the Inevitable canididate....not so much anymore. Her staff was too short sighted and she allowed them to run her.
On Thursday we will discussing who the VP choices will be. How exciting is that going to be? Look how much fun we all have had since January and it all ends sometime this week. Well in August we will have another 4 months to go at it again. Rest up for a few weeks and get ready for Nevember.
FryDaddy....
I'm still here..... although, getting more than a tad bit bored with the whole fight.....
the same things keep getting said over and over again....
also saddened by the lack of humor in this place nowadays......
I am confused on the popular vote side, not that it matters much anymore. But it would be nice to know what they did for history sake. If they are going to seat the entire deleagates but only give them 1/2 vote, I don't think that also stripes 1/2 of the popular vote too. The delegates were awarded based on the vote in FL. In MI I have no idea what to do with that one.
I was assuming that enough uncommitted superdelegates would endorse today/tomorrow so that he could get the magic number after Montana, but it looks like they're going to wait until later in the week to give HRC her "grace period." I'm not sure about the strategy of this. What do you guys think?
Where in the heck is Joe Scarborough? Even though his wife is in a delicate position, you would think he would be doing remotes. I just don't know how much longer I can handle Mika solo. Thank goodness Harold was there this morning...
Fry....
I don't care about "senority"..... I like a lot of the newbies..... they help to make this place a thriving community, IMO....
I just wish some had more of a sense of humor......
we only have one vote and can't control the whole process..... I learned a long time ago not to take the stuff one can't control so seriously..... I find it easier going through life that way......
Correct me if I am wrong, but weren't the D really pissed off in 2000 when Gore received 500K more votes than W but didn't get elected. So as an R watching all this folly I find it totally unexplainable how the D party can now do the same thing to the person who has received more votes, and go on like business as usual.
In which Bill admits "This may be last day I'm ever involved in a campaign of this kind."
Along with the reports today that the Clinton peeps are asking their staffers to turn in their expense receipts, I think we can see that maybe, just maybe she might actually quit by the end of the week.
I never thought it would be this easy, and until it happens I'm going to keep my fingers crossed, but we may have a peaceful, graceful exit yet.
The popular vote total is really hard to calculate, and it isn't really a relevant metric to gauge the primaries by because of the caucuses, delegates, and superdelegates. Think of it like this: only 40 states voted. Do you simply discount the others? I appreciate what you're trying to do, but I'm not sure if it really makes sense in this context.
The Obama campaign is just walking back their brag that after the Mi and Fla meeting all the Super D's would announce for Obamabot
more bullcrap
If they could end it they would
they don'tgie a crap about Senator Clinton and a graceful exit
They've been trying to force her out for months
Patrick leahy for example and all the otherbigmouth loserswho can try to shove around Clinton but can't stand up to the GOP in the senate.
35.6 million people have voted
The 37 primary states account for 97% of the vote.
The 13 caucus states account for 3% of the vote.
Bottom line: Clinton’s lead is from 34.5 million voters (97%) in Primaries. Obama’s lead is from 1.1 million voters (3%) in caucuses. [More...]
too bad for Obama the general election isn't caucuses
too bad for the rest of us too
Oh nothing in particular, I just always found her amusing and intelligent - at least compared to some of the other on-air personalities featured on the morning shows.
Tom , if anybody here knew a good hypnotist they wouldn't use them for something as trivial as getting them to like green beans , broccoli and spinach! *When I snap my fingers....you will become a supporter of Obama* *Snap!*
Here is the thing I don't like about Mika. She does this thing where when someone is talking she is in the background saying things like, "Oh, really!", "OK!", "Oooohhhhh....ahhhhhhh.....", "Wow!" It's like she has Tourette's but I know she is doing it for dramatic effect. It drives me nuts (and I have a good friend with Tourette's and we have discussed it so please, take no offense to the comparison.) She also does this righteous indignation thing when people say bad things about her "Daddy." It's the big eyes, the coyness. It's icky.
why dd he? Since no one who has seen the tape has come forward this is as much spin as the tape itself.
Oh by Michelle Obama is not from the South not even the Southside of Chicago or was she speaking in a faux accent to pander to the crowd. I thought that was
a capital crime
Tom , if anybody here knew a good hypnotist they wouldn't use them for something as trivial as getting them to like green beans , broccoli and spinach! *When I snap my fingers....you will become a supporter of Obama* *Snap!*
Sure explains all those fainting Obamabots at his prayer meetings.
Typical think of a dedicated BHO supporter, "We don't need no stinking white female voter". Maybe not now, but you will. The D party has shown their cards.
I am all over the board on Barack Obama.... Sometimes I think "no way", other times "yes ok" and still other times "possibly". I try to think of ramifications for our country if another Repug is "selected" POTUS...
Fry: Obama is redrawing the electoral map with his New Coalition. Democrats don't need to rely on the same old demographics any more. They are now more urban and younger. Didn't you get the memo?
Typical think of a dedicated BHO supporter, "We don't need no stinking white female voter". Maybe not now, but you will. The D party has shown their cards.
Posted by: FryDaddy | June 2, 2008 2:19 PM
Typical Speak for a republican operative,,,,didn't you say you were Republican? or "R"?
I've seen many Republicans spreading propoganda here. We love women. Could be great friends. When more truth comes out, some of these women may feel better. Such is life and politics. I applaud these women for their loyalty and sacrifise.
I attended a Washington State Caucus meeting before. It was pretty weird. If you didn't know what was going on, you were pretty much at the mercy of the "experienced" attendees. I can't even remember if we accomplished anything. Probably not... we were all Democrats. I don't remember any Presidential politics at play, so perhaps it was an off-year caucus. It must have been coz it was in someone's living room.
A couple WA state friends of mine said that the Obama supporters greatly out numbered the Clinton supporters and the Obama supporters were particulary domineering and rude. They were tearing down Hillary signs, actively campaigning in the area where people couldn't and actually told one friend that she was in the wrong caucus for Hillary. I wasn't there, but that's what I heard. I think it's tough enough to get sleepy Americans to even vote. Expecting them to attend caucuses during HEROES, LOST or ER is pretty naive. I suppose you could make it a Million dollar lottery if people bothered to vote. Every voter gets a chance to have their name drawn. Short of that, it's a voice of a smidgen from the voters and the party.
Mr. Political Operative: Rest assured that the Republicans got the Democratic nominee of their choice.
Let's face it, Bill Clinton beat them ... twice. And for all you out there that so enjoy using the term "Billary" - that's what the Republicans call them too and prefered to run against the neophyte Obama.
I'm sure the Republicans cannot believe their good fortune and are pretty pumped about their chances in the GE these days.
"good hypnotist that can convince someone that they only like green beans, broccoli and spinach?"
When you are in a totally relaxed state, you are open to suggestion. Not quite sure how the side show guys work, but the real ones understand the brain's psychology.
Simple version:
You're brain does not hear the words "NO" and "NOT". Not sure why it just doesn't (side note: This is one of the reasons the word no doesn't work on a child unless there is other inforcement so you might as well forget it saying it).
What they do is tell you to say "Yes". Yes I want to be thin. Yes fruits and vegetables are good for me. Yes i really enjoy walking.
All of this is usually preceded by an interview to determine what aspects of your life really upset you. so that they can enforce the opposite condition with a yes.
This then needs to be reinforced, usually with recordings of more positive suggestions.
ah Jamie... good one... I did see a hypnotist once around 1982 as I recall to stop eating sugar. I did go 6 months sugar free, but I suppose I was due for a "booster shot", but I just bought some "HO HO's" instead. :-)
Euro, Larry did post something this morning it was at 7:43 but it was not a tape, it was an update about the tape. We might of thought he said he would post a tape but he said he would have an update by 9 Monday. So who knows?
Hi Ally, I understand. By the way is "Ally" short for "Allegra"? I have a good friend in Olympia Washington named "Alegra" but she goes by "Ally". I bet Rez knows her.
I never cared much about caucuses... until this election where I was automatically disenfranchised because the DEMS did not count the primary voters and I wasn't about to hop in a car in Ghent Belgium to drive to my local caucus meeting. By the way, a gallon of gas in U.S. Dollars here in Belgium is now around $9
FYI, Mr. Operative. If you have spent any time on this blog you will see that most Republican spindrool comes from Obama supporters.
They mimick the right-wing Hate speech megaphone incessantly with their blue dress references, Vince Foster murder conspiracies, Hillary's failed health plan etc.
I hope the Obama campaign is proud of themselves. They've followed the Republican campaign model perfectly. Too bad they will be running into the REAL Republican attack machine in November with their eyes tightly closed.
Mr. Thin-Skinned will go whining to the press which will turn on him so fast his head will spin spin spin.
I said "soft" not south. She speaks clearly but has a rather firm but slightly slurred speech pattern. In fact they both say "ta" when they mean "to" and it makes me a little crazy.
Transcripts have been produced of that speech she gave and in the absence of any alternate "damning" tape, that carries more weight than No Quarter rumor.
Has the D party, with the help of the MSM, treated HRC like a whore? Well have they? I think so. They used her to satisfy their wishes and when they couldn't get anymore out of her they tossed her to the curb in favor of the enlighten one. Sorry for the bluntness but that is the way I see it, and that is how more and more female voters are seeing things. HRC should run as a Indy to return the screwing over she received at the hands of the D party.
I've pretty much given up on the tape, by Thursday this primary season will be over and it will get quiet for awhile.
Posted by: vadaryl | June 2, 2008 2:36 PM
Well it seems that Larry Johnson has blown his credibility out the window. Of course I didn't know anything about him til now, so maybe he never had any in the first place -- who knows? I may be wrong in this, but even if Michelle said "whitey", I would say it reflected on HER and not her husband. People tried to pin Bill's questionable extra-curricular activities on Hillary and that was pure B.S.
Now if Barack was there and said nothing or nodded in agreement that would be "a horse of a different color"...
I never cared much about caucuses either...until I moved to Iowa. And, let me tell you, everything Carl Levin said about the stranglehold Iowa has on the process is true and I think it needs to stop. I am really grateful for the opportunity I had last year to see so many of the candidates on so many occasions but I really feel that we need to give other states a chance AND we need to get rid of the caucuses. Iowans are really arrogant about the process, "IT'S TRADITION!" Well, there are a lot of things we used to do and that doesn't mean we keep doing them even if they're wrong.
Vad: The tape is a myth. The Republican 527's will come up with some new definition of Obama during the GE that the media will be more than happy to reinforce and we will have another Al Gore and John Kerry.
Remember: Gore invented the internet. John Kerry is a coward that didn't deserve his purple heart.
I can only imagine what label Obama is going to get. Whatever it is ... it will work ... just like 2000 and 2004.
Well I think if Mr. Obama offers the VP slot to Hillary, that would at least show a real act of reconciliation and building political unity. Hillary supporters are so fired up that I doubt that they will come rushing to the Obama side simply because he is the nominee. It's become too personal, too painful for them.
My "yucky" thing was the smell of stale smoke. I walked out of the hypnotists office and could barely get in my car long enough to get it to a car wash. I didn't smoke for a year and then the Army sent my son to Desert Storm and I took up all night CNN and chain smoking.
Finally gave up cigarettes cold turkey about three years ago. Probably should go to a hypnotist because that urge for the first one with my coffee is still there.
CRAIG --- A + for the video trailmix today. I have not had time to read the 422 post that proceed this ranking.
How about "The Great Gatsby"......
The plan has worked and the real contender is not going to be out of the race... Opps need to wait until the convention as some delegates could switch and put HRC back in.........
The rest is very scary - but this is indeed why BHO has no chance
"So it is that today, the Democratic Party is attempting to nominate a Black candidate, who does badly with most Whites, most Asians, and most Latinos. They will have a Muslim apostate candidate, who attended a racist and un-American church for 20 years. They will have a Leftist candidate, who is friends with an un-repentant domestic terrorist. They will have a Corrupt candidate, who has personally funded (through his directorship of the Woods Fund) a Muslim organization within the United States that rabidly supports the use of Suicide Bombing in Israel. They will have a young candidate, who is completely inexperienced for the job at hand and demonstrates it on a daily basis. The list goes on… Comically, as if these characteristics weren’t bad enough by themselves, they have somehow achieved bundling all of them into one politician. Do they still think that Obama can and/or should win in November?"
The Clintons have never been the media's favs. because of the WH years where first it was Whitewater, then it was Health Care, then it was Bill's pecadillos(Matt Drudge should die screaming)they don't trust, and have good reason not to trust the MSM - David Shuster saying that they were pimping Chelsea, that's how badly the media didn't want the Clinton's there, there would have been no stories for them, no access.
And the slick spade guaranteed them good copy for at least 4 years, doesn't matter what his background or his total lack of experience or knowledge was......
I also wish Hillary would walk away from this very sleazy, disgusting DNC. Unfortunately, I don't think it will happen. I do hope however that she doesn't spend any effort on his behalf, he hasn't earned it and he doesn't deserve it. The sleaze behind him slid him in there, now let them win it for him, they couldn't do it for themselves.
Mr. Crawford: Satire is good for the soul, and Stephen Colbert has made a few bucks at it too.....enjoyed it. How about the inauguration being shown in the context of the sheriff entering Rock Ridge in "Blazing Saddles".
Mr. Operative: If you are who/what you say you are, I hope you realize that the media is going to turn on Obama as soon as he is coronated as the Democratic nominee.
Hope the campaign is ready and you have schooled your candidate to stop whining when bad things are said about him.
As for the arrogance, Obama better not pull a "You're likeable enough" comment with McCain. He will look like a young whipper-snapper picking on his elder. He better treat McCain with more respect than he did Hillary or it will be a very very long late summer/fall for the Obama campaign.
Jamie I also went 6 months without coffee, that was in Seattle and I just decided I was drinking too much of it. One night during work, I took at break at a local Lesbian bar, they had awesome nachos, and they were brewing fresh coffee and I thought "oh what the hell? One cup sure isn't going to hurt me". That was 1987 and I haven't stopped since.
Mr. Crawford: Satire is good for the soul, and Stephen Colbert has made a few bucks at it too.....enjoyed it. How about the inauguration being shown in the context of the sheriff entering Rock Ridge in "Blazing Saddles". - Politically Pissed
LOL! My thoughts exactly. I have been thinking about that scene since the primary began. Or how about the scene in "Trading Places" when the Duke brothers are talking about their hideous $1 bet and one of them says, "We'd never let a ______ run our company."
Man, that scene alone could be a Republican campaign ad.
What a decision to make...he does not want HRC on his ticket, but without her he opens the door for a McBush threepeat.
Don't think for a minute that voters won't vote McBush in...we're talking about an electorate that re-elected Bush after a horrible, criminal, deceptive first term. What make anyone think the US voters got any smarter? Throw out the approval ratings...a new face on the Bush policy letterhead is enough for the red staters to elect McBush to 4 and then 8 more years of lies and war.
2000 was bad enough but the Kerry defeat really jaded me.
How could BHO ask HRC to be his VP, when he has been saying he represents change from the old way Washington did business, has identified the Clinton's as part of that problem, then ask her to be his VP?
Now I would love it as it would further demonstrate the hypocrite he truly is. As far as HRC goes I don't see her playing second fiddle to someone she is superior to in all aspects.
I've been here for several months... I don't remember how long really, but I've been staunch Hillary from the get go... as of now I am always in a different state of mind... plug my nose and vote for him... write in Hillary... abstain... vote nader.. and one I have abandoned, vote McCain just to piss of the Donna Braziles of the world.
I have been lifelong democrat, but now I am looking at each candidate regardless of party affiliation.
good luck jamie...I had dreams and tobacco cravings for fifteen years after my last smoke, and I still crave a pipe full of Sir Walter Raleigh, but won't go there...yet. Even with 2-medication-asthma, I still want tobacco smoke!
Take my coffee away? You and what armed militia?
But...I would surrender my gasoline cards ASAP if you give me light rail.
Tom I can tell you this honestly. My part here is volunteer. There are no paid bloggers. I really enjoy this part of the campaign, so its easy to be free!
Dexter gas in belgium if now $9.47 a gallon in US dollars. You can understand that most of us in Europe are not so sympathetic with the rising oil prices in the states... :-) .. though I sort of am because I know my American sisters and brothers are probably over-extended in credit to the hilt and barely getting by paycheck to paycheck.
Take a look, and you will find McCain is very close to HIllary, in fact his problem with the Rep party is he is closer to Hillary then to the Radical Right wing.
So McCain is the centrist which will set stable direction, then you will have BHO that is change, change everywhere the change ---- Just look at his own stance with a few issues in the last months.
Get ready - BHO will start to sound like a moderate.
(Liberal Wolf in Moderate clothes)
Yesterday, I found a quote by Donna Brasille, It appears that a number of you have been emailing her and she is taking notice. In fact you may be putting the fear of God in her.
Nick you have the link to that graphic about the types of Obama supporters. She was at the "Oh my God we could lose this". She was saying we all just need to take a deep breath and relax.
Great on the cold turkey. Question, are your morning 'challenges' full-blown cravings or more like 'wow, those were the good old days'?
We're approaching the ten-year mark now on I'll have a short duration craving every couple of months. I'm able to intellectualize myself through them. (Knowing how long they'll last and that they are transitory is really helpful).
After three years and still getting daily urges strikes me as if the nicodemon is trying to get her foot in the door. Seeing the hypnotist makes sense to me.
Jack: She was trying to talk people off the ledge all day yesterday afternoon on CNN. Lots of talk about cooking and Sundays and love. Then Roland Martin came on and started doing the angry thing for a few minutes and that was entertaining but even he calmed down after a few minutes.
LOL @ you thinking "eat this, not that " is a porn site!!
Did you look at it? It's an excellent site, for people who don't want to diet, but rather learn to make healthier food choices, in many different categories....restaurants, grocery stores, frozen foods, fast foods, drinks, desserts, etc...
In the last few months, I have lost over 20lbs, by just making small changes in my food choices(like the pretzels with mustard instead of cheese).
Even if a person does not want to lose weight, it is always a good idea to eat healthier foods.
yes Donna... tell us all to "take a deep breath and relax" as the DNC dumps on our candidate... I thought it was Donna who said she'd leave the Democratic Party if the Superdelegates went against the will of the voters... by their actions they invalidated many voters from the process... It almost reminds me of the founding era where blacks were 3/5ths of a person. Now primary voters in Michigan and Florida are 1/2 a person.. or 1/2 a vote.. It basically means that they are equal, but some areas are more equal than others.
"Question, are your morning 'challenges' full-blown cravings or more like 'wow, those were the good old days'?"
It's more like the smell and taste of coffee is still so tied to the cigarette addiction that just having a cup produces this little wave of longing. I just muscle through it simply because that is the only coffee I allow myself and I really, really like it.
My husband quit smoking about 10 years ago, also cold turkey. I have never, in my entire life, seen a bigger lunatic during those several weeks (and I dated an alcoholic for 5 years before I met my husband.) Cigarettes are sooooo dangerously addictive.
But, I thought we weren't supposed to talk about cigarettes on the blog because of Craig's recovering status? However, if we are breaking the rules, I didn't bring this up last week because of Craig but do you love how the media tried to get some traction with the Obama smoker story last week to no avail? Dumb story and, for once, they figured out they weren't getting anywhere with it. Or, maybe they were trying to make him sympathetic to the smokers and ex-smokers out there?Stuck on stupid no matter how you slice it.
I know the lunatics... they come into my gas station all the time.. usually addicted to alcohol or cigarettes, or both at the same time. In Dutch we call these people "crapuul"... In English we'd refer to them as "trailer trash". In my mind they are a step below Jerry Springer guests. However, I make a lot of money off of them.. Whiskey, vodka, beer, jenever, wine, sherry, you name it, I sell it.
Some of you are so funny talking Obama did this and he did that “to her”. He just upset Clinton’s apple cart, that’s all. She is the one who “was entitled” and “was inevitable” but then she wasn’t, so now she tries everything in the books (and not in the books) to still say she is the winner. The only way she is the winner by ANY means is to eliminate six states/territories’ popular vote. Chuck Todd is my numbers man. Besides, IMO, Eleanor Roosevelt was our first female president. She probably did more for the poor and down trodden than any female to occupy the WH and during a very difficult time. But, then maybe some of you don’t read much.
It would seem Billie “BJ” Jefferson Clinton is a winner. Been reading he has been having one time of it on those private planes throughout the campaign. He’s probably worn out. No wonder there won’t be another race for him.
Don’t ever doubt Senator Obama’s intelligence. It would seem he had more intelligence, strategy and financial backing by the little people than she during this campaign! But then it was she who said she had the non-educated in her camp.
Donna also said that she would give Hillary her delegate vote if that would make the Clinton supporters feel better about the 4 Hillary delegates going to Obama in Michigan. She is very generous.
Jamie I used to go to 12 step meetings for the free coffee and just to use it as a "therapy" session when I was a poor student in Seattle... The people in "recovery" would SHAKE with a cup of coffee.. BAD coffee.. in one hand and a cigarette dangling out the other side. I finally had to stop going because the smoke was just too much.
There were interesting groups there:
Overeaters anonymous
Alcoholics anonymous
Narcotics Anonymous
Adult Children of Dysfunctional Families (which basically included everyone in Seattle except perhaps two families)
Spend-a-holics anonymous
Alanon...
a few others
Oh yeah, and my favourite:
SEXAHOLICS ANONYMOUS. I was just a lad in his mid-20s but I was so tempted to pass out cards that said "call me if you fall off the wagon" :-)
As you know oil is trade around the world in US $$$. If the world thinks prices are high now, they better hope the oil kingdoms don't switch to selling oil in EUROS. It isn't for a lack of oil that the prices are higher, 60% of the price of oil is because of speculators, gas prices are also high because of a lack of storage and a lack of refineries. The use of a food grain, corn, to make ethanol is as close as one can comes for being considered a stay in the rubber-room. If you think gas is high talk to a independent trucker whose rig runs on diesel.
Jack: Considering Donna Brasille ran Gore's 2000 campaign we can all say she's never seen a loser Democratic nominee she didn't like. (Okay, I know Gore did WIN, but Donna is the reason he didn't seal the deal.)
I think the fact that she is now a political pundit making stupid comments on tv and not out there running campaigns says it all.
yeah I agree Fry Daddy, and in fact, the ethanol situation has created a world food shortage, which is causing much of the world's poor even further into starvation. what a mess..
And re: Euros... we actually have been lucky to have oil sold in dollars because the EURO is so strong it has been able to cushion some of the price increases. But taxes in Europe are high, and on top of all the extra taxes there is 21% value-added tax.
ET: Adult Children of Dysfunctional Families? Who isn't?
I just watched "As Good As It Gets" for about the upteenth time this weekend and my favorite scene is the one where Jack Nicholson tells the other two main characters why those of us who had shitty childhoods are really pissed:
Carol Connelly: OK, we all have these terrible stories to get over, and you-...
Melvin Udall: It's not true. Some have great stories, pretty stories that take place at lakes with boats and friends and noodle salad. Just no one in this car. But, a lot of people, that's their story. Good times, noodle salad. What makes it so hard is not that you had it bad, but that you're that pissed that so many others had it good.
I was just thinking about how clueless the Democratic leadership is.
They have told their most loyal of voting blocs to cram it and are relying on all the new "young" voters that Obama has brought in.
Doesn't it even occur to them or keep them up at night worrying whether the "new" voters will be caught up and easily distracted by the newest iPhone or video game in November and .... ooops! Forget to vote? Like I would depend on them to stay interested in ANYTHING for that long.
As for the Republican/Independent crossovers ... just wait till the 527's get their new meme about Obama out there. They will run away screaming and either stay home or run out and vote for McBush.
I'm well aware of Republicans, 527, dirty politicking etc. ad nauseum. What I object to is day in day out, multiple postings of exactly the same information, over and over, from the same sources of dubious provenance. It's just mind numbingly BORING
Of and has exactly the opposite effect of what you are trying to achieve. The only thing nagging does is drive someone as far away from you as possible
Are you a secret Obama supporter trying to drive us all frigging crazy until we agree to vote for him just to stop the constant drip drip drip Chinese Water Torture?
"That Cook" was running around here a day or so ago and then had to go make some phenominal food, Would you like the recipe for Lentil soup she left behind?
Hillary and her supporters have this week to get on the bus, or the bus is leaving, and they're not going to like where it's left them. If Hillary's top supporters and staff think it's better to take this lost battle to the convention
But if you do that, know that you're no better than Joe Lieberman. You're no better than Dick Morris. You're no better than any Republican who got us to where we are today - bankrupt, at war, hated worldwide, and with an economy in tatters. And just remember, Republicans don't get hired as consultants in the Democratic party" http://www.americablog.com/2008/06/friends-of-clinton-who-advocate.html
Apparently Obama and Clinton are both going to be in NYC on Wednesday. This is a "developing" story from an MSNBC interview with Obama's foreign policy advisor; you can check for more info at the Drudge Report, which seems to be compiling all the news stories relating to Clinton's exit.
EuroTom....
I LOVE Gary Lewis and the Playboys..... I still have all their albums..... and I won't part with them.....
As I've mentioned before.... I believe my state of NH will go overwhelmingly for McCain come November..... so it won't matter how I vote.....
Congrats to all of you who mentioned getting off of cigarettes..... I never started that habit.... and am thankful every time I hear or read about how hard it is to quit......
Dex..... the gas up here just went over $4.00 a gallon....
Nooooobama and screw the Democratic party. When I hear these idiots that are supposed to represent the Democratic party say that Hillary's women will jump in line when the time comes, it makes me sick to my stomach. Lets just wait and see. This lady is getting off the bus.
Just got off work, it's hot down here in Louisiana and I am cranky.
"Yet that passion is teetering on the brink of morphing into a raging anti-Obama force.
To avoid clashes between the camps, the Obama campaign urged its supporters not to show up. They mostly obliged, but there were a few scuffles.
At a rally a few blocks from the DNC meeting, a New Republic reporter witnessed Clinton supporters fawning over Larry Sinclair, a Minnesotan peddling fliers titled, "Obama's Dirty Little Secrets: Murder, Drugs, Gay Sex." Sinclair has posted YouTube videos alleging he used cocaine with Obama and performed a sex act on him in 1999. One Hillary supporter advised Sinclair, "You could improve your credibility if you downplayed the gay sex and focused on the drugs.
If this is the best try at unity, Democrats are in trouble."
Nooooobama and screw the Democratic party. When I hear these idiots that are supposed to represent the Democratic party say that Hillary's women will jump in line when the time comes, it makes me sick to my stomach. Lets just wait and see. This lady is getting off the bus.
Carol
I have to agree, Carol. This is not like elections past when we liked one guy, but the other guy got the nomination. They don't understand that every time HRC was dissed, called a B, called strident, etc. etc. by the so-called pundits and BHO supporters, we took it very personally -- we felt like those awful things were said about us. That's why this is different and why we are not all just going to fall in line this time.
hey Gordo
You need to turn off the computer,go outside, and get a little sun
Go to a sidewalk cafe. Maybe sip on a beverage or two then watch the young things walk by. It is relaxing and entertaining. It is a lot more fun than being a pathetic anti Obama troll. Who knows maybe one of them will smile at you. You might get laid, how about that? Sounds like fun, so what do you say?
I am nervous. I don't trust HRC to do the right and honorable thing.
You wouldn't know the right and honorable thing if you fell on it. But keep up this line of crap and guarantee there is no unity. No matter what crap you chose to believe - a lot of people voted and the results are split.
To be honest, why should we have confidence in a candidate that has been treated by the MSM and starry-eyed fainting women as the second coming of Christ? My god, he is just a man... and people act as if he walks on water. Hell maybe I'll write in John Edwards... he was very sincere and didn't seem to be so arrogantly stuck on himself.
I will be honest, one moment I think I can vote one way, one moment I can't even conceive of it...
Obama supporters seem to love to think of Hillary as a "dragon lady"... I've often said that Michelle Obama reminds me Leona Helmsley without her charm.
PO
That Obama people have trust in Clinton is irrelevent.
That Clinton people have trust in Obama is the election.Obama needs Clinton. Clinton doesn't need Obama. So far the Obama campaign has behaved as if they didn't need the Clinton supporters. If Obama is going to New York to meet Clinton then that is a good start.
final thought because as I have said, I don't hate Barack Obama, but I hate how one-sided this campaign has been and the shenanigans of idiots like Howard Dean and Donna "brilliant Al Gore Presidential Campaign Manager" Brazille, to work so hard behind the scenes to disenfranchise Hillary Clinton. Typically leadership thinks they can say "jump" and the everyday people say "how high"? In Florida I think they realized they had a much bigger problem on their hands than they thought possible.
I know unity is possible... but I think even if Hillary says "oh let's get behind Barack Obama's candidacy, many will just not vote for him. On Daily Kos, we are told that BHO doesn't need the Clinton voters. We are just old whites who are from the way politics "used to be done"...
BHO if you want real unity, make a public offer to HRC to be your running mate. That would convince me... sincerely and completely :-)
Both camps have said today that they will work together in November, and this afternoon Ickes said that Clinton will offer "significant" help to Obama. So yes, a good start at reconciliation.
work together as in running mates is a winning proposition. Btw, what steps are being taken to stop giving some people's votes more weight in the nomination process? I believe in 1 Democratic party voter = 1 vote period... Not, oh well you are from a strong Democratic precinct, so your 1 vote weighs more than 1 from a Democratic party voter in a Republican precinct. This clearly favoured Mr. Obama's constituency.
In truth, I've heard more "Real" people and not just blogger names, that are very complomentary of Hillary Clinton, not withstanding Senator Clinton. His voice has always been respectful infront of and behind the scenes. Senator Clinton knows this too.
You must remember that the Internet can be too impersonal and harrassing. It will be easier for the two candidates to put this behind them and work as a team. They both have been here before.
The Internet has played a much more intense role this year. Many unsuspecting people were caught in the middle of all the vitriol.
Even Mr Ickes was kind and very differant on this morning's call.
GAKaren, the think that sucks about politics is that the winning campaign will go into this sort of soothing "poly-talk": "we are all on the same side, our candidate 'respects' your candidate"... "her issues are our issues..." and even "we can understand your disappointment but know you have a 'home' here"... I feel dirty just writing it... It is such political handling.
I think I'd have more respect if his campaign would tell the bitter Clinton supporters to "sod off" and leave the party. It would be more honest... especially if they still believe they can win this thing without Hillary's supporters.
Senator Arrogant said some perfunctory nice things about Hillary Clinton today at a campaign stop in Michigan of all places. (My son was watching MSNBOC and had control of the remote, unfortunately.)
He doesn't mean a word of it. He's gloating but at least they told the people in the audience not to boo when he mentioned Senator Clinton. The Annointed One probably believes that this is his gracious display of unity and all Hillary supporters will come running to him and sit at his feet in adoration.
I informed mine that my idea of successful parenting was raising children able to pay for their own psychiatrist to complain about me.
Posted by: Jamie | June 2, 2008 4:10 PM
I am going to use that line. Every time I lose my temper and do a bit hollering, I feel the compulsion to put a nickel in the jar for their inevitable therapy costs.
ET: My comments about Senator Arrogant came before I saw your post.
I won't buy a word of that "we are the world" clap trap. I agree with you, just tell us to "sod off!" That is what the Obama camp has been saying all along so why change now?
IMO they truly believe they don't need Hillary's supporters but they will give it lip service.
Good distinction. Unity? I'm not sure there will be complete unity in the party this go around (is there ever?), but I don't think that will be the candidates' fault. I firmly believe they will sincerely work to get their supporters to come together. However, I think the faction that chooses to defect (McCain vote; no vote; protest; write-in) will in the end be quite minimal. A lot will change in 4-5 months.
The JayZ song, "99 Problems" is an ear worm -- I keep thinking of the new words, as applied to Barack Obama -- "If you're having girl problems I feel bad for you, son, you got 17 million problems but the bitch ain't one."
But Jamie, it's been widely reported that will likely receive a top cabinet position related to health care. He will definitely help her out.
I don't understand the "we don't need him" argument, unless you're a conservative. In other words: you don't need to protect the supreme court; work towards universal healthcare crisis; reform the labor department; overturn Bush's anti-civil liberties 9/11 laws; get out of Iraq; improve US standing in the world.
It's bigger than your personal gripes, it really is.
Everytime one of these Obama people comes on and talks about unity. I keep expecting their noses to burst through the screen with a birds nest on the tip.
Everytime one of these Obama people comes on and talks about unity. I keep expecting their noses to burst through the screen with a birds nest on the tip.
Posted by: Jamie | June 2, 2008 5:00 PM
It's only going to get worse. But I suppose it is better than the incessant blue dress references and talk of the "Clenis."
It's all ad hominem with you, isn't it? You can't accept that your candidate lost. Now, there's a lot I could say about HRC, but the time is over. The important point is to move forward. And if you're one of those Clintonites who says "vote McCain," then we don't need you. Anyone willing to sacrifice change in this country - not in terms of Obama's rhetoric, but real democrat reform - for their own egotism isn't just a sore loser, they're a danger to the party.
I think I'd have more respect if his campaign would tell the bitter Clinton supporters to "sod off" and leave the party. It would be more honest... especially if they still believe they can win this thing without Hillary's supporters.
Posted by: EuroTom | June 2, 2008 4:45 PM
LOL no offense, but why would I want to? I am here for the purpose of passing on information and to encourage you to not write us off yet.
hopefully I will satisfy you of my honesty someday.
PU: It is not a question of whether our candidate lost. It is the height of hypocrisy for Obama supporters to come on here offering olive branches in one hand while they are removing the knives from our backs with the other.
That stuff hurts and it isn't going to go away any time soon. You said you don't want us and you don't need us. What has changed? Have you suddenly realized that your coalition of the "willing" isn't as strong as you once imagined? We know what you think of Clinton and her supporters. You have made it abundantly clear. So don't come around with this "unity" bs and think it is all going to magically go away and the sun will come shining through because Obama has spread his arms to welcome all the "Clinton" sinners and give us salvation.
I just don't think you all are getting it. this is not about Clinton, It is about her supporters and enough of them are pissed at this moment to lose the election. Denial of their legitimate anger by the Obama camp is not helping. Tossing money at Clinton doesn't address the issue.
Matthews, the pundits, and the experts seems to be forgetting a few major things.
Even if Clinton stops, endorses Sen. Obama, encourages her followers to vote for him etc. there are a few things to note:
Almost 18 million votes
Within 200 delegates despite him getting an advantage because of weighted districts.
A caucus system his operatives gamed (and her campaign messed up) But now the American people know about it.
If in November only 10% of the voters (That's almost 2 million ), particularly that hard core group of women still feel insulted by all the chauvenism and filth that went on and decide to do nothing, Sen. Obama has a major problem.
Do I dislike center-right, Reagan democrats? Yes. Do I wish the party could move further to the left so as to not have to hang on to their conservative constituency? Yes. But, I don't think we can be choosers here. The great goal is too important.
Look, if the situation were reversed, I wouldn't necessarily be happy about it, but I'd support HRC.
No I am not a McCain voter. At this stage I am a do nothing or third party voter. Would you care to point out an ad hominem? I didn't call anyone any names. I said how I reacted to their presentation. I just get a little miffed at the "the little ladies will change their minds once some time passes".... He's not some husband taking a walk around the block until wifey gets over her mad ... or if he is, he had better come back with flowers.
I find it so hilarious that so-called feminists - and that they are certainly not - are willing to sacrifice the supreme court for their own petty issues.
I just don't think you all are getting it. this is not about Clinton, It is about her supporters and enough of them are pissed at this moment to lose the election. Denial of their legitimate anger by the Obama camp is not helping. Tossing money at Clinton doesn't address the issue.
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack | June 2, 2008 5:13 PM
Jack,
very pleased to me you! I really do understand. I'm not hear to sing Kumbiaya.
I would never assume that I have all the answers or that I understand the pain here just by having been in this same palce in other campaigns.
I promise all of you to occasionally offer answers and references so that you can find the answers if you want it.
If the Supreme Court is in jeopardy the blame will lie with Obama not Clinton supporters. It was Obama who bragged Clinton voters would support him but his supporters would not support her
STFU Obama said his supporters would put he court in jeopardy.
Do I dislike center-right, Reagan democrats? Yes. Do I wish the party could move further to the left so as to not have to hang on to their conservative constituency? Yes. But, I don't think we can be choosers here. The great goal is too important.
Posted by: Politics of Utopia | June 2, 2008 5:16 PM
Perhaps you and your candidate should have thought about that before you pissed all over the Clinton's and their supporters. Before you trashed the Clinton presidency. Before your candidate in his arrogance said he could get the support of Hillary's constituency but she couldn't get his.
I suspect you'd be singing a slightly different tune if HRC had won the nomination and the shoe was on the other foot. I can only imagine the spindrool Obama supporters would be churning out if they were suddenly told to come vote for Hillary. I'd pay good money to see the "unity" from Obama supporters in that scenario.
You have to admit it is a pleasant change.
May be tomorrow they will come with chocolates and flowers. I like Andres chocolates. I love to be courted. I can be had, but I'm not cheap.
Are you all getting ready to line up behind Obama like good Stepford gals?
I hope not.
I'm stealing myself for the onslaught of Obama supporters and media pundits who will start the drumbeat to try to shame us into sticking with the Democratic party by using fear tactics and guilt.
The name calling has already begun:
"We don't need you."
"You're egotistic, sore losers."
"You're traitors to your county."
For me, the reasons I will not vote for Obama are far beyond the fact that Hillary Clinton is losing the primary.
These lemmings don't get it! In their world all they need is the word of "their leader" to tell them what to do, how to think and act, blow his nose and everyone cheer. I hope Hillary doesn't think that I will follow her lead if she actively supports "The South Chicago Messiah" Ain't gonna happen!
My memory works just fine-no intention of forgetting.
But Jamie, it's been widely reported that will likely receive a top cabinet position related to health care. He will definitely help her out.
Posted by: Politics of Utopia:
So glad he will "help her out" after she won more votes than him -- what a guy. Do you know how condescending that sounds?
and
You can't accept that your candidate lost.
Posted by: Politics of Utopia:
That isn't it. We can accept if she loses -- we can't accept the way she loses and the vitriolic blogs and namecalling from his supporters.
Doing good things for Sen. Clinton would be a nice beginning, but we have had multi months of watching her being savaged and they can't quite get it that "She is Us".
Every misogynistic, lurid, threat, lie and half truth was heard loud and clear by US. It may have been his minions and activists, but they were representing him and he is the one who needs to fix the damage done.
Loved the Leona Helmsley comparison, I totally agree.
For all you O-bot supporters out there who are now making nice... too little - too late. I will not be falling in line and hope this particular bunch of sleazy DNC mutts go up in flames.
Also I reserve the right to say I told you so ..... he's Howdy Doody.
Jamie,
I do not think that their message will authentically change because that is actually what they really believe. They may try to "make-up" but that's only because they want something, one thing.....our vote.
After they get, you'll never hear from them again.
We have seen this storyline repeated since time began.
Jack: LOL. Actually, I think Obama is a large pimple on the butt. Chicago is the city of big shoulders that welcomes every one and Obama has done quite well for himself there.
I just don't like people dissing Chicago or its politics. Chicago gets a lot of bad press but their political shenanigans are not much different from other cities and other political machines. I think Richard J. Daley was such a larger than life figure and the 1960 election put Chicago on the map while highlighting some of the more interesting aspects of Chicago politics. (Not to mention the '68 Dem convention.)
That being said, I am convinced that my long dead relatives vote in every election there and will vote for the Democratic nominee this November as well.
My mom, my aunt, my wife, and my grandmothers are all white, over 40 (except for my wife), all Democrats, and all support Obama. The supposedly disenfranchised Clinton supporters who are threatening to sabotage the GE and the entire Democratic party by causing a mass exodus of adult white women overestimate their leverage, from my perspective. I understand that friends and family are hardly a representative sample, but it's part of my frame of reference.
We all live in Pennsylvania, by the way, and my step-father voted for Clinton, because his union told him to.
Brit Hume's showing a clip from an Obama rally telling the crowd that he and Hillary will BOTH be campaigning hard until November. All of a sudden he's getting complimentary of her.
Prof M
I so totally agree!!! Maybe some will change but i will not be voting President In Florida this time.I have seen to much on the net That Sen.Obama has said and done to Hillary and her supporters!! There policy differences may not be much but I don't trust OBAMA.But the real test for him is will he do the work to try and get the Lunch Bucket Democrats Vote? Go to Flint,Michigan where Im from and talk to the autoworker and Talk to women with respect and honor or will it be just more of the same wait a second sweetie?We will see
Jamie,
I do not think that their message will authentically change because that is actually what they really believe. They may try to "make-up" but that's only because they want something, one thing.....our vote.
After they get, you'll never hear from them again.
We have seen this storyline repeated since time began.
Posted by: unlikely_burrito | June 2, 2008 6:01 PM
"sniff sniff" "He never calls ... he never writes."
The supposedly disenfranchised Clinton supporters who are threatening to sabotage the GE and the entire Democratic party by causing a mass exodus of adult white women overestimate their leverage, from my perspective. Posted by: champ | June 2, 2008 6:04 PM
Well champ, then you and Obama have nothing to worry about.
I asked this in the last thread, just a while ago. Will Clinton supporters tell me how they'd win without the OBama camp? I keep reading things like he needs her and her supporters more than they need him... DITTO. Pretending otherwise is to deny political reality.
If HuffPo is right, she's asking for help for politicians who backed her and are facing challenges from Pro-Obama pols.. He should NOT help those pols. They made their choices.
He should help her get out of that enormous debt she's been dragging for months.
I" have seen to much on the net That Sen.Obama has said and done to Hillary and her supporters!! There policy differences may not be much but I don't trust OBAMA."
The reasons MSNBCs fakey Mika is irritating section was wonderful. She's like the prissy girl in high school who sneers at people behind their backs.
LushisLinda is probably gone, but I wanted to let her know that I'm
someone who went to see "Sex In the City" this weekend. I loved it even
though it's a guilty pleasure watching gorgeous divas with closets full
of Manolo Blahnik stilettos, sipping margaritas at beach resorts in Mexico.
I like the girl friend bonding theme of the stories.
GAKaren: You capture my feelings exactly in your posts today,
especially, "Perhaps you and your candidate should have thought
about that before you pissed all over the Clintons and their supporters, before you trashed the Clinton presidency." This is so very true.
How could I ever vote for Obama after witnessing this campaign?
Sorry Champ, no offense I chuckle every time I see your moniker since my dear sheltie shares the same name with you.
For what its worth in my family the women are all Clinton supporters that are quite pissed right now. As someone else said there is plenty of time between now and the election.
I think we are probably both right in that the Democratic leadership and Obama's campaign don't think the rift will hurt their chances in November but there are probably a few more disgruntled Clinton supporters out there then every one thinks.
It certainly will be interesting to see how things play out.
"After they get, you'll never hear from them again."
Funny.
I keep wondering if those four delegates were worth it? It was really the last straw for me. The rubbing of the nose in it so you are absolutely sure there has been a transfer of power. Well the Clintons power may have been transfered to the Obamas, but not necessarily her voters.
There is a point people get to that is beyond anger. It is cold hard adamant. The suitcases are on the porch and the locks have been changed. That's what those four delegates got him.
GAK
I'm reminded of several years ago.It was my sisters wedding and we were all gathered in her apartment watching TV We were having flooding problems and at the same time so was Chicago. The local news here lead with the flooding and the impact it would have on people flooded out. We turned over to the Chicago cable station. They lead with the flooding and the effect it would have on local politics. My BIL gave me a puzzeled look and I just laughed. I told him "Thats Chicago, they take their politics seriously." In some ways it is a whole different world.
Jack: LOL. Considering Jane Byrne won a mayoral election because of a snow storm I guess that chapter of Chicago politics could make a segment on the Weather Channel's "When Weather Changed History." I think every Chicago politician since Byrne keeps their eye on the skies just in case.
Actually the flood in Chicago was wild ... it was man made because there are a series of tunnels that run under the city that were flooded by a construction crew that hit a pylon in the river. I remember they shut the city down ... it was unheard of. My husband had to leave work because they closed all the buildings.
You know, those Montana South Dakota numbers were a real surprise for most people. Obama was up 12 points there at the beginning of April, so for her to be up 26 pts. is more than amazing. Something really is happening here. Something big.
In Montana, he was up 17 and now it's just 4. If she pulls an upset there, it'll be another surprise.
Not sure how all these last contest can be completely ignored.
The people who post on blogs like this and on similar forums on the net are every passionate, relatively informed (compared to most of the populace), active and sometimes invested in these campaigns. Such people are also in the minority.
I don't think it's fair to blame Obama for the rude people who post on forums and just happen to support him. I doubt they are representative of his share of the electorate, although they are certainly more vocal- in much the same way I believe Clintons most vocal internet supporters are not. The anonymity the internet affords allows trolls with nothing better to do to log on and get a rise out of others. They do it for that sake alone, and not out of any real support for their candidate.
Take all the most popular American political 'blogging' sites, and try to estimate how many people are actively commenting on these stories everyday. My estimate would be under 100,000. Take this blog, for instance. There are about 600 comments a day, but those are generated by about 20 people. Jeez, I must have made 30 posts myself last night, much to the chagrin of the other participants here. Sorry, folks.
1 other thing: Don't people realize politics is a bloodsport? How can people begrudge Obama for running an effective and successful campaign? He (or his stewards) beat the Clintons at their own game, a game for which they had been preparing for years. Use of the media to your advantage is the reality of modern American politics. The Clintons used very similar tactics and were only a little less successful themselves. They got beat. It happens. That's politics. I think the Clintons understand that better than their vocal supporters.
Who knows what will happen between now and November but as Bette Davis' character said in "All About Eve" ... "fasten your seat belts it's going to be a bumpy ride."
Clinton Spokesperson: She Is Not Conceding
June 02, 2008 4:02 PM
"He was asked about Clinton's definition of when a nominee would be determined -– because she has refused to accept the new 2,118 delegates number that the Democratic Party says is needed to clinch the nomination.
"I think its pretty clear that she is not conceding." Elleithee said, "I think its pretty clear that she is staying in this race. She is going, in the coming days, to be aggressively courting uncommitted superdelegates aggressively courting unpledged delegates, making the case to them that she is a candidate best ready to take on John McCain."
Jamie
There you go again its like your chaneling the thoughts from my head!!! I keep saying to myself 4 delegates stealing 4 was it worth it.Oh but you make us feel it and Understand!!!
Champ: You have presented a very rational post, however, as many of us old white women can tell you, it has never been quite this bad during a primary in my memory. (Okay it's only been 20+ years for me.)
As I mentioned earlier my husband and I cannot even talk about this election any more. That's a real rarity in our house.
I know that isn't scientific or earth shattering but I suspect there will be studies of this primary election for years to come. I also think our gracious host Craig could write a very interesting book about it as well.
One of the big negatives is that the Republicans are having a field day with this.
For those of us who are going to quit the Democratic party, I think the day after "Obama's Hollywood Exit" would be a good time. It would send the message to the DNC, and the Media that we are serious.
Superdelegates can change their minds so nothing is set in stone -- not yet.
I hope Hillary does not support him. But even if she does, why is it assumed that everyone will just follow her lead? If she should endorse or support Obama, I still would not vote for him.
I just think it would be a shame if people voted for McCain out of spite rather than conviction. There is a REAL war going on, with REAL people dying everyday, kids mostly. REAL lives are being shattered, people are getting maimed, blown up, threatened, uprooted, military families are being destroyed by either death or long absences... I could go on.
To protest vote for McCain, an aggressive war-monger who espouses the status quo, is to literally make a choice to endanger more American, Iraqi, and Afghani lives for a poorly conceived and disastrous military action. Out of spite? That is just plain irrational.
1. Denial: "But Senator Clinton hasn't conceded yet! She doesn't admit that she's lost! She keeps moving the goal posts, continues playing the race card, it therefore must not really be over for her. We need her permission to move on!"
2. Anger: "If the rest of you don't lash out at what's upsetting me in exactly the way I am, you're as bad as she is!"
3. Bargaining: "This means that Obama has to put Clinton on the ticket (like Andrew Sullivan says, 'hello again to all that!'). Oh, wait, scratch that: he has to put a Clinton supporter on the ticket. Or maybe he has to put a different woman on the ticket... or how about..."
4. Depression: "Where'd everybody go? God, I miss the adrenaline of when this was a real contest!"
5. Acceptance: "Oh, goodie: More adrenaline to come! A general election campaign! Of course Obama will choose his running mate according to his standards. I bet it'll be as smart a move as those that got him here!"
I don't know what Obama needs, tictac. I'm just some moron with a computer and an internet connection.
I didn't mean for my earlier comment to come across that way, however. I was just contrasting all the fire and brimstone on these blogs with what I've actually heard from the women in my life.
"The Presidential contest between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama is likely to be roiled in coming days by revelations that Michelle Obama made racist comments in a speech for which there is allegedly an indelible record. This is why Hillary Clinton is still in the race and why her people have been in a race with Republican Opposition Researchers to get their hands on the offensive recording.
Mark Penn, who "resigned" as the Clinton Campaign strategist but is still the Clinton campaign strategist told intimates the bombshell "could come this week"
You still are not getting the message. It isn't the loss. In this place over and over, the Clinton supporters have repeatedly acknowledged that her campaign was poorly run in the beginning and by the time they figured out the problem it was too late for catch up.
The problem is an inexperienced candidate run by a dirty trickster who labeled the Clintons racists to an adoring mob, backed up by a cooperative media and a trash talking punditry. It was the constant day in day out insults airmed at women in general and Sen. Clinton in particular.
He is a much better candidate now thanks to that long fight, but he still isn't ready for prime time and the premature gloating by his official minions doesn't make him look better particularly now that the vetting he should have had at the beginning is just now starting to take place.
Top that off with the DNC power play this past weekend and it comes down to they don't respect us why should we trust or respect them?
You all probably already heard, but Obama was just on Camera saying that he called Hillary and told her he looks forward to getting with her for a meeting with her, after the Tuesday election.
I believe that most of the Clinton commenters are on the real "acceptance level".
"He won, now let's set back and see if he can pull a miracle out of his ass."
They no longer have a commitment to maintain . The ball is in your mans court. Getting their vote is all his problem.
LOL Now what the fk does he do.
I'm just gonna set back like I have all election so far. point out the crap and laugh at the spin.
You shouldn't respect or trust them. They are politicians. They make their living by telling other people how to live and producing nothing of real value. Now you are getting the idea. That notwithstanding, It's still irresponsible to vote for the war-mongering McCain out of spite, in my opinion.
If between Obama and Clinton, you believe CLinton is the better candidate and vote for her, I respect that. If between Obama and McCain, you believe McCain is the better candidate and vote for him, I respect that too. If however, you don't believe McCain is the better candidate and vote for him anyway, that's just disingenuous, and I don't respect that. Not that you care what it is that I respect, but you get the idea...
Champ, your view of McCain and what you think Obama will do are dubious. If Obama winds he will have such issues dogging him, 2010 will make him a lame duck. No candidate has tanked towards victory and with good reason: no candidate enjoyed such Press. Obama supporters like a few we have here have become legendary. The stuff spewed from the Left these last several months will leave a bitter taste in the center for several more.
Obama screwed Michigan and Hillary with the help of Dodd abd Edwards. Fact not fiction. Obama has no answers nor the money for his promises. Already his supporters are accusing Hillary supporters of blatant racism. Just look at the weekend threads at ABC's blogs. This election will be the most divisive and the vetting of Obama will be called racist. Frankly, some Republicans hope Obama wins...LOL 2010 will bounce them back into the game big time. and corner Obama.
Jamie is right, but don't talk to centrist Democrats about loyalty. Obama threw them under the bus too when he refused to come clean as a Senator. He called Moss a great pastor after Moss defended Wright and has shown very clear LIFE LONG judgment that the Republicans will have a great time repeating to the public.
Clinton's best move would be head of the Senate. Anything less than being the most powerful woman in the world Obama has to come and negotiate with should be off the table. And the odds that Obama heads lower in the polls are fifty fifty at best. He's one person who should never carry a pistol.
Thx for you comments. I believe they speak volumes to the help the Obama campaign can expect to get from the Clintons and t many of their supporters. Although I beg to differ with you on this: "Getting their vote is all his problem." I guess we will see.
The Clinton campaign had no problem writing off MI and Fl when they though they didn't need them, for no other reason than to conserve resources (which they have proven ineffective at managing) for other primaries. Her surrogates voted for that resolution. I hate using this word over and over, but it is DISINGENUOUS to assert otherwise, as that whole process has been well documented.
Ironically, if FL and MI had kept their primaries where they were, they would have been in an influential place in the cycle, much like Pennsylvania, which had the first relevant primary of my lifetime this year.
Neupogen? I love having $20K worth of injectibles in my closet. My act of faith is that one day they'll just send me the cash instead.
I also became a Matt Dillon of steroids, procrit and the occasional antibiotic.
Chemo becomes a commute after awhile. After over 120 weeks of it in six years, usually 4 day multifests, the thing I find most notable about it are the chemosabes I meet along the way.
What I liked most about this last year was falling forward from my hematologist's treatment room to MSK to keep a 17 year old son of friends company during his "genocidal" (MSK's word, not his) 7 day treatment cycles.
What is remarkable is this: he had Ewing's sarcoma. I still go directly to see him post-treatment. Except now... he is cancer-free, stable and we go for walks through things other than time.
There are a lot of biological treatments emerging for a great number of cancers and other diseases.
One of the people who has made herself a life or death test subject for the one which is the most amazingly successful in clinical trials has been Geraldine Ferraro.
What is even more remarkable is how she ended a treatment which had taken her from terminal status to being cancer-free so that the protocol could start its FDA trial -- and how she convinced the other people -- most of whom were, like her, last resort patients -- to end it to so that millions of people could one day have a chance to get this same treatment --
Which is not only effective with blood based cancers but all herpes zoster based cancers and auto-immune diseases --
Including AIDS, Crohn's, Lupus, MS, rheumatoid arthritis and (at minimum) dozens more.
Brain, no one knows better how to attract flies than you do. And I do compliment the simplicity of how you do it. After all, it seems to be your duty.
If Obama can't get back the majority of Clinton supporters who voted for her in larger numbers and in more Blue sttes that Obamniacs did for Obama, you're up the creek with just fiction for a paddle.
The Clinton campaign had no problem writing off MI and Fl when they though they didn't need them, for no other reason than to conserve resources (which they have proven ineffective at managing) for other primaries. Her surrogates voted for that resolution. I hate using this word over and over, but it is DISINGENUOUS to assert otherwise, as that whole process has been well documented
Factless. It was Obama who lied to the people of Florida about his intentions.
Lay off the kewlaid Chump
As Primary Election Season 2008 draws to a close, after an 8th thrashing of Barack Hussein Obama out of 13 possible since March 4th, the guttersnipes are really going crazy.
One day they are half-heartedly extending an olive branch of peace, the next day, they are armed with bamboo sticks and throwing their arms about wildly hoping to hit anyone close by who even appears to support Hillary Rodham Clinton.
Amen to that. So is Dick Gregory. Particularly when he states that the Civil Rights act of 1964 was not just for African Americans, but for women, ALL women, as well.
I really hope everyone who threatens to leave the dm party does so. I wish everyone would leave both parties. They aren't really necessary - money can be given straight to candidates. but the biggest reason is the power a "party" gives to un-elected officials. Unelected is the same thing as un-accountable. I never voted for Kennedy or Pelosi, but they run one half of the government. The elites, many of whom we know absolutely nothing about, haven't changed in decades.
Joining a party gives it power to make so many decisions and they do NOT consider what we want. that is an absolute fact - they decide on the basis of what they think they can get away with to stay in power.
Republicans are not happy - they didn't like their available candidates and many are not happy with McCain. There are a lot of views in that party which have been ignored - why do they support their party?
The same thing is true with dems. Whether Hillary got 17,000,000 votes or not, she split the vote 50-50. The swing to Obama has come from the party, not the voters. You Obama supporters might gloat now, but it has happened to you before and will happen to you again. That's what party politics is about - swinging weight around. Kennedy, Pelosi, and Dean are counting on the women of the country to be accomodating, like Mrs. Spitzer and Mrs. Vitter and Mrs. Paterson - like all the battered women whp have sighed and been understanding, like our grandmothers and all the women in the history of the world.
Anybody who has not liked the way the dem party has forced Obama on us and Hillary out of the way --- if you have seen it this way, please stop giving your money and attention and efforts to a political party. There is no need for them. We can figure out for ourselves which candidate we want in power.
Desperate Obama Disinformation Over Michelle “Whitey” Video
"The Obama campaign is telling reporters from major news organizations that the videotape of Michelle Obama railing against “whitey” at a panel alongside Nation of Islam maximum leader Louis Farrakhan is nothing but a “scurrilous lie,” according to one of those reporters who called for an answer.
But at the same time the Obama campaign has disseminated either a doctored or concocted transcript of the supposedly nonexistent videotape. Major Obama donors went to the campaign demanding explanations after the posting of my story on No Quarter about the contents of the videotape confirmed to me by several reliable sources, all Republicans with access to knowledge but who do not know each other.
So the campaign created a would-be transcript of the video it says doesn’t exist."
The Presidential contest between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama is likely to be roiled in coming days by revelations that Michelle Obama made racist comments in a speech for which there is allegedly an indelible record. This is why Hillary Clinton is still in the race and why her people have been in a race with Republican Opposition Researchers to get their hands on the offensive recording.
On the heels of Michelle Obama's quote that she "has never been proud of her country" until now, the new controversy could turn the contest up-side down but is more likely to redound to the benefit of John McCain than to boost Hillary Clinton to the nomination- if the alleged recording exists.
Mark Penn, who "resigned" as the Clinton Campaign strategist but is still the Clinton campaign strategist told intimates the bombshell "could come this week"
The endless predictionsof a flood of super delegates is just as annoying as the endless predicitions about the tape. The hype is so great now unless she is frothing at the mouth and having a threesome with Phleger and Wright it wil be anti-climatic.
"He’s doing everything he can before the vote in South Dakota and Montana to try to depress Hillary’s turnout. Obama’s Big Lie has worked before. To listen to Obama Hillary has been dropping out since the beginning of the campaign."
There are already a number of tapes any one of which should be enough to destroy Obama. Where is this Michelle tape? It reminds me of Big Foot, lots of suspicion but just short of any real evidence. If there is a tape, it should be produced pronto or stop all the hype.
1. If she is really saying "Why'd he" it will be very clear in the audio/visual as "Why'd he" is a question as opposed to the term "Whitey" in the sentence which then turns it into a statement. The intonation will tell the story.
2. Why is she on a panel with Louis Farrakhan? How does this help Obama with the Jewish vote? Ugh.
bethyboo....I agree with you. I suggested in my post @6:34 that when Obama declares victory, those of us who are changing to the Independent party do it the day after Obama claims victory.
1. If she is really saying "Why'd he" it will be very clear in the audio/visual as "Why'd he" is a question as opposed to the term "Whitey" in the sentence which then turns it into a statement. The intonation will tell the story. Ally
Ally, not only would you be able to tell by how she used the word, I think there must be more than just that one word. It's been rumored she's really ranting on in this tape and that it's quite damning. This can't all come down to one word "whitey". There's more.
And if she was on a panel with Farrakahn discussing the Jena Six, that had to have been in the last year. Why would she be on a panel with Farrakahn in the last year? While Obama was running for President? That makes no sense at all. This makes me wonder if the whole story is just kooky.
.I agree with you. I suggested in my post @6:34 that when Obama declares victory, those of us who are changing to the Independent party do it the day after Obama claims victory.
Posted by: jean |
jean,
I saw your 6:34 post and plan on doing what you suggested. Resigning from the DNC the day after the last primary.
I figured you pick it up, but a sarcasm emot would be nice.
My wife is more optimistic than me but she doesn't hang out in the blogs or on the internet as much either. She's been a more loyal democrat for longer too.
I have several older women in my family that I speak with frequently and most are Clintonites and strong dems too. I think most of them will vote the party in the end.
It funny to me how we think others are in tune politically as us, but it's just not the case.
I'm beginning to believe in this divided government idea. I love the story about the transcript from the occasion that never happened. Maybe they could get Karl Rove and Alberto Gonzalez that way - report the words but then say it didn't happen or they didn't say that.
Oregon Dem: You know I love you but if we don't win in November, there won't be universal health care OR help to those suffering in the mortgage crisis.
Lost your house? Not important. Job outsourced? Not important. Can’t afford the gas to get to work? Not important. Predatory lending, which really affects the AA community? Not important. Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan? Not important. Real universal health care? Not important. Think these issues are important? You’re a racist.
Well, if it is just McCain and Obama, all you hurting Clinton pups can come join the party- the last eight years have not been so bad- that is a media fiction.
We have not been attacked.
We are a strong, good people.
Bush has not ended abortion.
McCain will welcome all women voters- the last eight years have not been that bad, and think of how good the next eight can be-
Well if we wanted insight into healthcare or the mortgage crisis, we would be learning much from Obama. Perhaps Hillary could come here and chat with us.
Obama plans to raise the capital gains tax to 28%. He wants to raise taxes on those really people making 100.000 per year while cutting defense.
If the idea is to keep Obama out of the WH, why would one not vote for McCain and waste a vote? Is it because McCain is evil or hates America? I think McCain has far fewer associates like Ayers, Wright Pfleger (who help CREATE Obama), Meeks, Rezko and others. McCain is far more center than Obama who is VERY Liberal. So much so he called Hillary a Republican Lite.
Burrito: I was just thinking of typing the EXACT SAME THING. At least we get to say that for the next 5 months. I think we could add a tick tock to it as well. It would make sense.
"If Dan doesn't give you a chance to finish that last thought, you must let those of us on the blog know what you were going to say. -- Posted by: Ally"
Ah, it wasn't important Ally. Was going to make some mischief and point out that Woodrow Wilson went to his convention in third place and still won.
My you folks have been busy today. Gotta run -- new thread at midnight
Much has been written about the alleged "dark motives" of Senator Clinton during this historic race for the Democratic nomination. For example, that she has sought to irreparably harm Obama to doom his chances in the general in order to set up a run in 2012 or that her ambition and ego blinded her to the fact that she could not win a long time ago.
I am someone who believes people are a bit more complicated and that trying to distill someone's motivations into a single thought almost always shades us from the truth. So given that - I would like to offer a more noble ambition that might have been part of HRC's willingness to take the race to the "bitter end": That the Clintons believed that fighting Obama tooth and nail through June 3 was the best way to set up the Democratic Party for victory in November.
Now I have been a staunch Obama supporter since even before he threw his hat in the ring. And I certainly admit that I have cringed at some of the tactics of the Clinton campaign and have sneered at the television as Clinton and her surrogates took Obama to task. But in hindsight - there appears to be two clear benefits - that may have been obvious to veteran politicians such as the Clintons sooner than most. A hard-fought nomination race would give Obama the battle experience (and scars) he needs to take on the GOP this Fall and that conceding only after Obama reached the "magic number" - as opposed to caving into the calls of the pundits and Obama supporters - was the most effective way to give Obama's nomination legitimacy in the eyes of Clinton's supporters and others. (I also think the GOP would have seized on the notion that the media handed Obama the nomination if Clinton dropped out early).
I think the Clintons know that our nation is at a critical moment in its history - and that changing parties in the White House - is a crucial part of turning the page on the Bush Administration. And while they both have huge egos - just like anyone else with the audacity to run for the most important job in the world - they are also staunch Democrats and patriotic Americans.
So this is one Obama supporter that is willing to give the Clintons the benefit of the doubt. Now if you accept the premise (which I freely acknowledge many won't) that Hillary believes that staying in this race to the end is the best way to increase Obama's chances for victory in the Fall - then I think it is tremendously admirable that Hillary Clinton decided to see this race through to its conclusion in the face of the ridicule and slander she has received from both the press and her colleagues in Washington over the last few weeks. So let us pause for a second to acknowledge that maybe - just maybe - Clinton and her team continued to press arguments (e.g., the "big states" and the popular vote) that they knew would not win the battle for the nomination - in order to win the war for the White House.
So Kudos to Hillary Clinton. And whether she is VP, in the cabinet or in the Senate - she will play a vital role in this Country's future.
I figured the VP topic would come up and, the impression I get from the Obama faithful at HuffPo is that Hillary on the ticket would tarnish his "brand." (Is "brand" the most overused word in the world or what?) Anyhow, Roy definitely implied that Obama is too authentic for her. Boy is that ironic considering that she won a lot of swing states on her ability to connect with certain blocs of voters that are critical to success in November. (Ironic is my word of the day.)
I stand by my prediction that the post will not be offered to her...
"Our thanks to Martin Longman over at Booman Tribune. He performed a public service last night by disseminating Barack Obama talking points even before I had published my update. Two key points–First, the Obama campaign is admitting the tape exists by ponying up a bogus explanation. Second, they don’t dispute that Michelle is sitting at the table with Louis Farrakhan."
Comments
First?
Posted by: Jason | June 2, 2008 6:15 AM
not last
Posted by: sturgeone | June 2, 2008 6:21 AM
"hey....is this heaven?"
"No.........it's Iowa....."
lol
Posted by: sturgeone | June 2, 2008 6:24 AM
Good Morning,
Great video, Craig. I like the movie clips. I detect a hint of sarcasm in your
"Hollywood Ending."
In his heavily choreographed performance this Tuesday, the main character,
Obama, will appear in his Armani suit. His well-rehearsed speech carefully prepared. Director Darth Axelrod can be seen perched in the wings, wrinkling his brow, filled with angst as he watches Obama to make certain his protege follows the script.
Posted by: prof marcia
| June 2, 2008 6:35 AM
"Obama's Hollywood Ending-The Movie" produced by MSNBC with
cameos by Keith Olbermann and Chris Matthews, comic relief by
Mike Barnicle.
Posted by: prof marcia
| June 2, 2008 6:50 AM
Lanny Davis in WSJ making the case for Hillary's nomination:
http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB121219030144534313-lMyQjAxMDI4MTAyMTEwOTEwWj.html
Posted by: Alicia Knight
| June 2, 2008 6:51 AM
Alicia,
Thanks for the link to the Lanny Davis article. I love that guy.
Of course, I agree with everything he writes. But, don't you think
the back room deal, in smoking rooms, has already been
struck by Camp Obama with the shady delegates? (I wish it weren't
so, but I fear the dirty deeds have been done). The DNC, the elitist media and the Washington insiders just didn't want a woman to become president,
especially a woman as feisty, smart and strong as Hillary Clinton.
Posted by: prof marcia
| June 2, 2008 7:09 AM
Reposting from last thread.
After yesterday's acrimony, I was motivated to go back to Craig's book The Politics of Life.
Quoting from page xi in the introduction "Think again about driving your car and how people actually behave on the roads. While plenty of drivers are kind and generous, many are rude, obnoxious, and even threatening. No matter how they act elsewhere, remember this: What you see on the road is who they really are. You could be at a party with those same rude drivers, and they might put up a gentle and affable front. But in the anonymous bubble of their automobiles, they are their true selves."
I think that this analogy is applicable to posting on the internet as well. So we all provide a window to our soul, the good, the bad or ugly when we post here.
Posted by: Bowmanc
| June 2, 2008 7:10 AM
Craig, I loved the finish!!
Hillary must go down in flames, if she does go down. Otherwise, her credibility as one who will fight for every inch of hallowed ground will be shattered.
Posted by: Flatus
| June 2, 2008 7:10 AM
According to Article 9, Section 12 of the Charter and Bylaws of the Democratic Party of the United States:
All meetings of the Democratic National Committee, the Executive Committee,and all other official Party committees, commissions and bodies shall be open to the public, and votes shall not be taken by secret ballot.
Interesting they had a private dinner the night before and at 4:15 on Saturday they held another private meeting. Then came out and did a dog and poney show and voted. Did they break any rules by doing this or by just having the public vote they covered themselves.
Posted by: vadaryl
| June 2, 2008 7:13 AM
On a Wine of Horace's
What time I read your mighty line,
O Mr. Q. Horatius Flaccus,
In praise of many an ancient wine--
You twanged a wickid lyric to Bacchus!--
I wondered, like a Yankee hick,
If that old stuff contained a kick.
So when upon a Paris card
I glimpsed a Falernian, I said: "Waiter,
I'll emulate that ancient bard,
And pass upon his merits later."
Professor Mendell, quelque sport,
Suggested that we split a quart.
O Flaccus, ere I ceased to drink
Three glasses and a pair of highballs,
I could not talk, I could not think;
For I was pickled to the eyeballs.
If you sopped up Falernian wine
How did you ever write a line?
Franklin P. Adams
Posted by: sturgeone | June 2, 2008 7:19 AM
Is Larry Johnson stil going to release the tape this morning at 9? Interesting that FOX never brought it back up yesterday after first reporting it. They talked to a guy by the name of Roger Stone. He's the guy who broke the Eliot Spitzer prostitution story. He's not well liked to begin with. Rivera bet $100 that the tape does not exist.
Posted by: vadaryl
| June 2, 2008 7:20 AM
vadaryl,
How I wish that they took their Charter seriously. But they don't.
There are two vehicles for Mrs Clinton to act, the most immediate would be a civil suit asking for injunctive relief until such time as the Charter is followed.
The second way would be to spread the word that she doesn't want to do the first, but does want the matter addressed by the credentials committee, and, if necessary, the entire convention, in August.
If this had been a governmental body in Florida, the entire crowd would be in the pokey for having violated the Govt in the Sunshine Act.
Posted by: Flatus
| June 2, 2008 7:20 AM
good morning gang....
Craig.... you should have gone to the movies..... then you could have had some great popcorn instead of those nasty Nacho Doritos.....
Bowman.... I tried to read some of this blog last night..... after reading for a few minutes.... I decided my decision to ignore this blog on the weekends was the correct one for me..... I shut this damn machine off.....
great weekend to be a Boston sports fan..... the Celtics won the Eastern Conference and Manny hit his 500th home run...... YEEEHAAAAW!
oh yeah..... politics..... sooooooooo......
Posted by: RebelliousRenee
| June 2, 2008 7:22 AM
RR,
The kids spilt over from kiddieland. Along with a few 'adult' trolls from the repug side trying to incite violence amongst us.
Posted by: Flatus
| June 2, 2008 7:26 AM
Since everyone is on this, rules are rules, then did the committee break any rules by having a private meeting before they had the public vote. Based on what was said before the vote it appears a decison had been made in the private meeting. Like a straw vote.
For this discussion take Hillary and Obama out of the picture and just chat about the rules. Also if they did break the rules what happens in this case. Do you have a court case? No real Law would be broken but a party law might of been. So I don't understand this kind of rule.
Posted by: vadaryl
| June 2, 2008 7:27 AM
Mr. Charles..........what ARE the blues......and WHO gets them?
--Dan Ackroyd as Tom Snyder to Ray Charles as himself.
Posted by: sturgeone | June 2, 2008 7:28 AM
It will be difficult for me to watch Obama grab the big prize tomorrow night, as the pundits at MSNBC and CNN do their victory dances. It will be even harder for me to watch Hillary concede the nomination. I hope she goes out fighting.
Posted by: prof marcia
| June 2, 2008 7:31 AM
Geraldo is about as rich as it gets. Betting $100 told me he wasn't willing to go out on a limb all that far!
As far as all of the comments about the true window to people's soul, when some of the more vitriolic posters "apologize" and say they are ready to play nice, and then we go back and see some of the hateful language they had used in the past, it gives me an icky feeling. Honestly, I don't think I am capable of that kind of hate language to begin with, and I'm not all that moral (or is it ethical?) Whatever.
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 7:34 AM
this just in.........the catholic priest Pfleger has had his minutes of fame cut from 4 1/2 to 3.25.
Posted by: sturgeone | June 2, 2008 7:34 AM
Prof Marcia, Flatus, and VA Daryl -- Yes, I thought it was troubling that there was a private dinner meeting of he RBC members the night prior to the meeting. Also the fact that their lunch break took over three hours -- after which one of the RBC members confirmed that they had been talking about the decisions they were about to make. They might not have actually cast votes, but certainly violated the spirit of the bylaws cited by VADaryl.
Posted by: Alicia Knight
| June 2, 2008 7:35 AM
Vad: Is there a provision in the Rules and Bylaws that allows them to go into closed session? Could they call that extended lunch break a closed session?
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 7:44 AM
Good Morning All
Loved the movie references Craig. Small detail. Didn't the Titanic sink?
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 7:44 AM
Jamie, indeed. And remember the actual ending with the nonagenarian heroine having enjoyed her 'secret' for her long, long life casting it back into the deep with a smile on her face.
Posted by: Flatus
| June 2, 2008 7:49 AM
I thought I would share this email exchange between Donna Brazile and one of the people in the American People for Hillary Group (which was mysteriously shut down by the DNC website last week.)
Start at the bottom and read to the top to have it in order
-----Original Message-----
From: Donna Brazile [mailto:donna@brazileassociates.com]
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 1:44 PM
To: Roger
Subject: Re: NEWS FROM THE MEETING
Roger,
I respectfully disagree with your analysis.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I am not in the business of trying to
change your views. But will respectfully move on.
Donna
Sent wirelessly via BlackBerry from T-Mobile. Please excuse any typos or
grammatical errors.
-----Original Message-----
From:Roger
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 13:15:48
To:
Subject: RE: NEWS FROM THE MEETING
Or we could this time around for just once use the rules already written as
they are written and just play by those rules and not cheat at all.
If the committee had done that in August 2007 none of this would ever had
happen.
It is not Michigan's fault nor Hillary's fault or Obama fault that the
committee did not play by the rules in August 2007.
Michigan and Florida both were willing to take the 50% hit as stated in the
rules.
Obama would have left his name on even for 50%
Hillary should not be punished for a wise move that still played with in the
rules.
Only the DNC committee is the one seen here as cheating.
They cheated in August 2007 and now in May 2008.
The rules do not say those early primaries are invalid or those voters votes
won't count it only says go ahead but know you will only get 50% power for
your delegates at the national conventions...now that is playing by the
rules..
I wish you would have done that just once yesterday. I am sadden that your
resolution to the cheating was more cheating. Only yesterday was like
Harold said...aimed at the core of what we stand or rather have worked hard
to change and stand for. We have seen the enemy and they are us! We have
gone backwards and are now like GWB and the Republican in 2000.
Anger yes but more sad then anger. And Donna you and I have emailed about
Jack Cafferty and you shared so honestly that you were neutral but that is
not how you acted or voted when you go with the crowd yesterday. I am
sadden by that on a personal level.
Sorry I know you are being bomb barded with all this now.
Roger
-----Original Message-----
From: Donna Brazile [mailto:donna@brazileassociates.com]
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 12:42 PM
To: Roger
Subject: Re: NEWS FROM THE MEETING
Thanks for sharing. It's totally acceptable to be angry, but i wish they
knew the facts.
Sending this to several people because I have to work today.
Here is what you can do for me. Ask the Michigan Party what they want, the
Clinton campaign and the Obama campaign.
Take a vote and give the winner what they earned. Hmmmmm. The winner would
get half. The loser will whine. Ok. Go back, revote and see who won.
This time the Party wins.
Obama accepted. Clinton rejected.
I call it a game. But when you change the rules at the end of the game -- as
we did, we cheated.
Clinton got something. Obama got something. No one received 100 percent.
Respectfully yours on a Sunday,
Donna
Posted by: Alicia Knight
| June 2, 2008 7:51 AM
Well, today is grounds maintenance day. And, Stinky is pacing the floor waiting for me to get my miserable butt off the chair.
Guess I'll humor her.
Posted by: Flatus
| June 2, 2008 7:52 AM
Hillary says NO nominee on tuesday.....http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/06/clinton-says-no.html
Posted by: emmy | June 2, 2008 7:52 AM
Heaven for me?
Doritos for breakfast...yummmm!!
Posted by: LushIsLinda
| June 2, 2008 7:53 AM
thought for the day
There is no need to sally forth, for it remains true that those things which make us human are, curiously enough, always close at hand. Resolve then, that on this very ground, with small flags waving and tinny blast on tiny trumpets, we shall meet the enemy, and not only may he be ours, he may be us.
Forward!
walt kelly
Posted by: patd | June 2, 2008 7:53 AM
Obama says he wants to be a different type of politician, well he could of been if he would not of quit his church. But he did what all other politicians would do is get away from something could could be harmful. One thing he did do was delay that decision for a long time.
Posted by: vadaryl
| June 2, 2008 7:54 AM
Vad: Is there a provision in the Rules and Bylaws that allows them to go into closed session? Could they call that extended lunch break a closed session?
I don't know does anybody else know the answer to these questions?
Posted by: vadaryl
| June 2, 2008 7:56 AM
As crazy as it got here over the weekend, this forum is downright civil compared to the many other blogs I monitor. I have been blogging for Hillary since January using different handles and different IDs, but this is the only one in which I feel comfortable to use my real name.
Posted by: Alicia Knight
| June 2, 2008 7:56 AM
I believe the general rule is, if you want to go to a private session, that decision must be made in a public session prior to the event.
Posted by: Flatus
| June 2, 2008 7:57 AM
I don't think they made that decision in advance. I think they went to a closed door because they knew it was going to get ugly and they did not want the public to see it.
Posted by: vadaryl
| June 2, 2008 8:01 AM
I believe the general rule is, if you want to go to a private session, that decision must be made in a public session prior to the event.
Posted by: Flatus | June 2, 2008 7:57 AM
That I would agree with after attending as many City Council meetings as I have in my lifetime...they usually announce that they are going in to closed session.
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 8:02 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyutnmdDwsg
il pogo
Posted by: sturgeone | June 2, 2008 8:04 AM
I think both candidates and their supporters might pay attention to Winston Churchill:
"Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak, and courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen."
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 8:04 AM
I think both candidates and their supporters might pay attention to Winston Churchill:
"Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak, and courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen."
Posted by: Jamie | June 2, 2008 8:04 AM
That is not what Howard Dean asked us to do on Saturday. He told us to fall in line. I am still flabbergasted by that stuck on stupid story he told. To have the gall to compare his run for the Presidency to Hillary Clinton's is not only deluded but laughable.
However Jamie, in the spirit of your post, I am always willing to listen.
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 8:08 AM
Closed session question. I'm not sure if the same laws govern DC, but I serve on a county commission that is governed by the VA Open Meetings Law and Freedom of Information Act (FOIA).
No more than two people are allowed to meet in private. Socially this can be a bit tricky as some of us are friends and do meet to socialize, but we are not allowed to discuss commission business.
If we do go into private session we have to certify that we only discussed the issues for which we are allowed to meet in private -- i.e. personnel, certain legal matters, contract negotiations.
All commission-related emails are subject FOIA, even those which are generated from personal email accounts.
There is also a record keeping requirement of three years of all correspondence related to commission business, just in case someone does want to FOIA.
Posted by: Alicia Knight
| June 2, 2008 8:09 AM
Alicia: Yes, that sounds about right. I know that on some boards I have served on we were not even allowed to put official business in e-mails (that was in the chapter by-laws.).
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 8:15 AM
Nitpicky me. Barnacle just di the "first woman to run for President" bzzzzzzt Wrong! There have been lots of them and some received national attention. (My favorite is and always will be Shirley Chisholm)
http://www.jofreeman.com/politics/womprez03.htm
I know he couldn't name them all, but a tip of his bald spot wouldn't have hurt.
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 8:19 AM
Ally,
Good we are in total agreement ... Dean really messed up this whole election and the weekend was totally in character.
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 8:22 AM
Craig,
You keep getting better and better!
And to think he owes it all to Iowa.
No one can say they won't get an Academy Award for strategy.
I always like a happy ending, so it was nice to have him dump
his church at the end to avoid problems.
Dress rehearsal is over, now the real battle starts.
Posted by: chloe
| June 2, 2008 8:24 AM
Okay -- my post about open meetings laws governing VA and DC, and a legal article regarding open meetings by political parties got snagged by spam filter.
So here are the most relevant links:
Legal article:
http://www.ancelglink.com/qanda/a7.html
This is a good resource on FOIA and Open Meetings:
http://www.citmedialaw.org/
Posted by: Alicia Knight
| June 2, 2008 8:25 AM
My husband just called me and said that Harold Ickes was just quoted on the radio saying: "Six people made the decision for six hundred thousand people"
Posted by: chloe
| June 2, 2008 8:28 AM
MSNBC and Morning Mika is particularly maddening this morning. I have emailed her, but, of course, she will not read my email because it asking her to ask Mr. Obama the question: Do you adhere to the black liberation theology?
Posted by: lizbeth
| June 2, 2008 8:31 AM
Dean really messed up this whole election and the weekend was totally in character. Posted by: Jamie
and predictable. All we had to do, was look at past behavior.
Posted by: chloe
| June 2, 2008 8:31 AM
MSNBC and Morning Mika is particularly maddening this morning. Posted by: lizbeth
Switch to "FaB" Fox.
Much less annoying.
Posted by: chloe
| June 2, 2008 8:33 AM
I think HRC could win as an independent candidate by drawing Dem, Indy, and dis-enchanted Rep. bread and butter oriented, women.
That faction plus we millions of HRC supporting Dem and Indy males could prove to be a winner.
I think with Wesley Clark as a running mate she also draws many Rep. males.
I think she would draw votes from McCain in large numbers, while absolutely demolishing Obama.
Even if McCain still won, Obama goes down in flames and she builds a solid base for 2012.
The DNC would lie in ruins.
I fervently advocate such an effort and will gladly donate the maximum allowed to help facilitate such.
Posted by: Mike | June 2, 2008 8:36 AM
A wealthy old Gentleman decides to go on a hunting safari in Africa , taking his faithful, elderly Jack Russell named Killer, along for the company.
One day the old Jack Russell starts chasing rabbits and before long, discovers that he's lost. Wandering about, he notices a leopard heading rapidly in his direction with the intention of having lunch.
The old Jack Russell thinks,'Oh, oh! I'm in deep doo-doo now!' Noticing some bones on the ground close by, he immediately settles down to chew on the bones with his back to the approaching cat. Just as the leopard is about to leap, the old Jack Russell exclaims loudly, 'Boy, that was one delicious leopard! I wonder, if there are any more around here?'
Hearing this, the young leopard halts his attack in mid-strike, a look of terror comes over him and he slinks away into the trees. 'Whew!', says the leopard, 'That was close! That old Jack Russell nearly had me!'
Meanwhile, a monkey who had beenwatching the whole scene from a nearby tree, figures he can put this knowledge to good use and trade it for protection from the leopard. So, off he goes, but the old Jack Russell sees him heading after the leopard with great speed, and figures that something must be up.
The monkey soon catches up with the leopard, spills the beans and strikes a deal for himself with the leopard.
The young leopard is furious at being made a fool of and says, 'Here, monkey, hop on my back and see what's going to happen to that conniving canine!
Now, the old Jack Russell sees the leopard coming with the monkey on his back and thinks, 'What am I going to do now?', but instead of running, the dog sits down with his back to his attackers, pretending he hasn't seen them yet, and just when they get close enough to hear, the old Jack Russell says...
'Where's that damn monkey? I sent him off an hour ago to bring me another leopard!
Posted by: sturgeone | June 2, 2008 8:41 AM
Alicia: I, too, received that e-mail from Donna Brazile. My e-mail to her expressed the thought that they could have continued to refuse to seat the Michigan delegation, or they could have seated them at 50% as per votes actually cast, but what they did was to invent an outcome. I am absolutely certain that such a decision is against the rules, even if it had been done in public.
Posted by: maggisd
| June 2, 2008 8:42 AM
I fervently advocate such an effort and will gladly donate the maximum allowed to help facilitate such.
Posted by: Mike | June 2, 2008 8:36 AM
I would too, but I can't see it happening.
Posted by: chloe
| June 2, 2008 8:43 AM
What's worse is that the only point of the four delegate gift to Sen Obama (in addition to assigning him all the uncommitted delegates) was that it made no real difference ... it was just to prove that his team had the power to do it.
Posted by: maggisd
| June 2, 2008 8:44 AM
This could be something, more on this tape:
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/06/02/michelle-obama-and-louis-farrakhan-take-on-whitey/#more-2847
Posted by: vadaryl
| June 2, 2008 8:47 AM
Chloe: I don't see that happening either. Moreover I don't think it would be a wise move for Sen Clinton. On the other hand, she can endorse Sen Obama and urge me to vote for him all she wants ... this has gone beyond her and her candidacy for me. I will never vote for him unless he stands up and apologizes for what he did to ruin the reputation of the Clintons -- and even then I might not.
Posted by: maggisd
| June 2, 2008 8:47 AM
Where's that damn monkey? I sent him off an hour ago to bring me another leopard! Posted by: sturgeone
Sturge, I love your story. Just what I need this morning.
The morning crew is so uplifting.
Posted by: chloe
| June 2, 2008 8:49 AM
Michelle Obama and Louis Farrakhan Take On Whitey
"I learned over the weekend why the Republicans who have seen the tape of Michelle Obama ranting about “whitey” describe it as “STUNNING.” I have not seen it but I have heard from five separate sources who have spoken directly with people who have seen the tape. It features Michelle Obama and Louis Farrakhan. They are sitting on a panel at Jeremiah Wright’s Church when Michelle makes her intemperate remarks. Whoops!! When that image comes out it will enter the politcal ads hall of fame. It will be right up there with the little girl plucking daisy petals in the famous 1964 ad LBJ used against Barry Goldwater."
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/06/02/michelle-obama-and-louis-farrakhan-take-on-whitey/
Posted by: GORDO | June 2, 2008 8:50 AM
"it was just to prove that his team had the power to do it."
Yep. Good old fashioned nose rubbing and another example of the arrogance of his whole team. Doing something just because you can is rarely the best way to influence others.
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 8:51 AM
It's down to 10 minutes, I wonder if Johnson will still release this tape and if he does how long will it take for media to jump on it. FOX will be first but what about Obama's MSNBC and CNN.
Posted by: vadaryl
| June 2, 2008 8:51 AM
Interesting it's taking longer and longer for Johnson's page to display.
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/
Posted by: vadaryl
| June 2, 2008 8:53 AM
Gordo
Well you have been promising multiple times daily for weeks. The deadline is in six minutes. Anything after that with nothing to show belongs in the round file with the other trash.
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 8:53 AM
Now I can't get the site to display at all.
Posted by: vadaryl
| June 2, 2008 8:54 AM
Word of the Day: Ironic.
Plegler quits the Obama campaign. Then gives a hate-filled speech. Obama quits church as a result (well, that and all of the calls to shut-ins from the media.)
CNN decides to do a story which has been on the blogosphere for months and months on Obama's Chicago-style politics once the nomination is completely secure for Senator Obama.
And, Hillary Clinton loses the nomination in large part because she chose to run a General Election campaign during the Primary. In contrast, Obama ran a Primary Election campaign during the Primary and won said nomination but now seems to have serious electability issues in the General.
I could go on and on but I have a full-page ad due this morning.
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 8:55 AM
"...I don't think it would be a wise move for Sen Clinton maggisd
maybe not a wise move, but it's nice to fantasize.
Maggie, undoubtedly, she'll "be required" by the party to endorse him. But I couldn't forget all that's happened if I tried. I can't be loyal to a party that has behaved as the DNC has. I will vote for the person I see as best for the Country from here on out, regardless of the party they're affiliated with.
I now consider myself a life long Democrat who is now an Independent.
Posted by: chloe
| June 2, 2008 8:56 AM
Can anybody get johnson's page to display?
Posted by: vadaryl
| June 2, 2008 8:57 AM
Food for thought. Here is the current pledged delegate count with 2118 needed to go "over the top"
Obama
1739
Clinton
1624
31 pledged delegates at stake tomorrow.
I have been unable to find out how many Obama delegates are as the result of weighted delegate apportionment, but I would like to know.
Posted by: maggisd
| June 2, 2008 8:58 AM
Chloe: It IS nice in the mornings. I read through some of the thread from late last night (for the last couple of nights actually) and the new Obama posters coming from Kos and HuffPo are, at best, predictable. I know that we welcome all new posters with open arms but the "You Clinton people" language gets so boring after a while.
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 8:59 AM
Some of you need to read MORE carefully what Larry Johnson writes - words matter.
Posted by: GORDO | June 2, 2008 9:00 AM
Ironic, or well planned?
Not on Hillary's side because it didn't work.
But on Obama's and CNN's side, because it did.
Posted by: chloe
| June 2, 2008 9:00 AM
OK it's after 9 now, anybody hear anything about a tape yet?
Posted by: vadaryl
| June 2, 2008 9:02 AM
Chloe: I agree with you entirely. It has been made quite evident to me that the DNC is soooooo certain that women are a lock for the party that they need do nothing at all for us ... as Harold Ickes said, the Saturday vote was a hell of a way to try and unify the party.
In my e-mail to Donna Brazile I expressed the fact that we were not a bunch of apparatchiks mindlessly toeing the party line. Even Roe v Wade is not enough of a reason to cause me to vote for a faction that has shown such utter contempt for me and my sisters.
Posted by: maggisd
| June 2, 2008 9:05 AM
Can anybody get johnson's page to display?
Posted by: vadaryl
Vadaryl, I have a fast connection and I can't get it to load.
They must have site problems, maybe too much traffic??
Posted by: chloe
| June 2, 2008 9:06 AM
nothing on the noquarter site as of now
¡yo soy Horsedooty!
Posted by: yo soy Horsedooty!
| June 2, 2008 9:06 AM
Basically he heard from a friend who heard from a friend who had it from five "good" sources that they had friends ... SNOPES here it comes.
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 9:07 AM
ok, you go west......you go north........you go south....and I'll go east, toward the beach........scour the internet and report back here with that tape or dont bother to return.........that tape must be found........this is no time for silly shill-he shall-he syllogisms......FIND THAT TAPE. I'll be on the beach with a cuba libre........
Posted by: sturgeone | June 2, 2008 9:07 AM
Ally - I thought that we were Clintonistas.
Posted by: maggisd
| June 2, 2008 9:07 AM
I guess we all are interested if he's telling the truth or blowing smoke.
Posted by: vadaryl
| June 2, 2008 9:07 AM
I got it to load with my cable connection but it took a while
¡yo soy Horsedooty!
Posted by: yo soy Horsedooty!
| June 2, 2008 9:08 AM
mornin' all.
Up and down weekend on the soccer fields, with a good ending Sunday - LP's team won the consolaation game 8-1, LP scored 5 - his first was 10 seconds into the game.
Bear Bryant would have described the weekend result from the rules committee as something like kissing your sister. BTW, I doubt that Ickes plans to take anything to the Credentials committee. Would be a waste of time, money and effort. The thrust will be with the SDs.
Travelling today - I'll keep it between the lines. You guys keep it civil - yeah, like that could happen.
Posted by: pogo
| June 2, 2008 9:09 AM
"we were not a bunch of apparatchiks mindlessly toeing the party line. Even Roe v Wade is not enough of a reason to cause me to vote for a faction that has shown such utter contempt for me and my sisters." Posted by: maggisd
Well said, and I agree.
Posted by: chloe
| June 2, 2008 9:09 AM
I got it to display but it's not been updated. Last update was 7:43 with Michelle Obama and Louis Farrakhan Take On Whitey »
Posted by: vadaryl
| June 2, 2008 9:10 AM
vadary, chloe -----------------------
Look at my post of 8:50 AM.
Posted by: GORDO | June 2, 2008 9:10 AM
"or blowing smoke"
Anytime I see a similar phrase it reminds me of a moment in time when my brain just totally went on strike. I was trying to describe the old Camel billboard that blew smoke rings. For some reason this came out as "He was poking smuff bubbles".
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 9:12 AM
Ally - I thought that we were Clintonistas.
Posted by: maggisd | June 2, 2008 9:07 AM
I think we are a lot of things...
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 9:13 AM
Gordo,
But he has not updated that story yet. That was at 7:43 but at the end he did say: If Republican poohbahs have their way the tape will remain on ice until October. Maybe that is what going to happen.
Posted by: vadaryl
| June 2, 2008 9:14 AM
vadaryl: Didn't Roger Stone work for Giuliani?
My feeling is that if such a tape does exist, and if it is held in GOP hands, it will not come to light until after the August conventions. And then it will show up on You Tube ... the Republicans do not want to help Hillary ... they can read the polls as well as anyone and they know she is the stronger candidate.
Posted by: maggisd
| June 2, 2008 9:15 AM
Is it getting cold in here or are we just experiencing a Gordo/No Quarter Snow Job?
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 9:19 AM
I agree this tape exists but if the GOP has it then there is no way they would release that today, they would wait till the October surprise when he would have it's most damage. So I guess Johnson thought someone would give it to him or the press would get a hold of it but that never happened. So now back to normal.
Posted by: vadaryl
| June 2, 2008 9:20 AM
I'm with Vad: If the tape exists, they will have to pry it from the cold, dead, lifeless hands of the Republican who has it. There is no way it will appear before October (if it really exists.)
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 9:21 AM
Dana Milbank's takeon the weekend activites.
His choice for Hollywood ending
War of the Worlds
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/31/AR2008053102354.html?sid=ST2008053102453
Posted by: Lynn C | June 2, 2008 9:23 AM
good way to have a tape without really having to actually have one...........so far.
Posted by: sturgeone | June 2, 2008 9:23 AM
Sen. Ted Kennedy in surgery now: http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?parm1=5&docID=news-000002886195
Posted by: Craig Crawford
| June 2, 2008 9:23 AM
Now if this tape was about Hillary or McCain you bet it would be shown.
Posted by: vadaryl
| June 2, 2008 9:23 AM
gordo = bluff Question: has anything gordo posted come true?
¡yo soy Horsedooty!
Posted by: yo soy Horsedooty!
| June 2, 2008 9:24 AM
Craig do you know anything about this so called tape?
Posted by: vadaryl
| June 2, 2008 9:24 AM
With the Ted Kennedy news and now the death of Yves St. Laurent of a brain tumor, all heavy cell phone users might really want to consider going totally "hands free". The connection may be unproven as yet, but the seeming added risk is worth the caution.
http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9584_22-195865.html
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 9:24 AM
All our prayers go out to Kennedy!
Posted by: vadaryl
| June 2, 2008 9:25 AM
As to the existence of "The Tape", even National Review remains skeptical
http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MmU5NjE1ZTM1NTg5OGZlNmMxMzI4YzUxYmM4MzNmMzk=
Posted by: Coreen | June 2, 2008 9:25 AM
So I googled Roger Stone and found several blog sites with references to the so-called Whitey video, but I couldn't get any of them to download. Lots of interest apparently. Every reference to Roger Stone used the phrase "political dirty trickster" ... so, do we think he might just be planting rumors or starting his own urban legend? I mean, I know that Mrs Obama has said some unfortunate things in public, but can't think that she is as stupid as to have sat and discussed Whitey with Farrakhan.
Posted by: maggisd
| June 2, 2008 9:27 AM
vadaryl ----------------------
LJ said he would provide more info this morning, not necessarily the MO video. Expect details to be fed out gradually - this is the way it works. Can't throw info out "cold" - he has been laying the groundwork. Remember, don't want the Clinton campaign's "fingerprints" on this Obama takedown.
Posted by: GORDO | June 2, 2008 9:28 AM
maggi.......not "lately" you mean.....it could be well before obama's keynote speech.........20 years of membership........lots of tape to search..............
Posted by: sturgeone | June 2, 2008 9:28 AM
After about 10 minutes I got larry's site to display and no update yet. It's almost 1/2 hr, I'll give him till 10 and then I give up on this one until october.
Posted by: vadaryl
| June 2, 2008 9:29 AM
"Craig do you know anything about this so called tape? -- Posted by: vadaryl"
dunno a thing, could be a hoax like the imaginary photo of George Bush dancing naked on a table that so many wasted so much time talking about in 2000.
Posted by: Craig Crawford
| June 2, 2008 9:29 AM
Personally, my prayers go out to Sen Kennedy's surgeon ... that his hands be steady and sure ... I think that the decision to undergo surgery must be a good sign ... that the tumor has not yet developed arms ... at least I fervently hope so.
Posted by: maggisd
| June 2, 2008 9:30 AM
LOL
some of you people...............
There is no tape folks. This has just become a traffic driver for noquarter. It is about money.
If there were a tape, It would have been released. Now is the time to cause maximum damage. Release the tape now you cause chaos in the Democratic party and you avoid the blowback that would occur in a later release. McCain can look good by loud and often condennation of the tape.
One other point, It would have to be a hell of a tape to do any real damage.
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack
| June 2, 2008 9:30 AM
Craig: It is WAY to early in the morning to think about George Bush dancing naked. I am trying to eat my fruit and granola!
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 9:31 AM
Gordo,
You might be right, that something like this should be put out gradually. Also maybe he wants someone else to put it out so that Clinton campaign's won't leave any "fingerprints" on it.
Posted by: vadaryl
| June 2, 2008 9:31 AM
sturgeone: IMHO even if such a tape were found, the fervent Obama supporters would dismiss it as a hoax.
Posted by: maggisd
| June 2, 2008 9:32 AM
Craig with all your sources you dunno a thing. Someone's got to be talking about this one.
Posted by: vadaryl
| June 2, 2008 9:33 AM
vadaryl: Why would there be Clinton fingerprints on a tape in the possession of Roger Stone?
To be honest, I can believe Mrs Obama talking about Whitey...I just don't see her interacting at a conference with Farrakhan. Primarily because it strikes me as against his character to have a sit-down discussion with a female...not his style, somehow.
Posted by: maggisd
| June 2, 2008 9:35 AM
It's been 15 minutes now and I can't get Johnson's page to display.
Posted by: vadaryl
| June 2, 2008 9:36 AM
vadaryl: Someone is talking about it ... us. :)
Posted by: maggisd
| June 2, 2008 9:37 AM
Listen up folks: Even if there was a tape of Michelle Obama dancing naked on a table (just last week), it wouldn't be enough to derail Obama supporters. There isn't ANYTHING that can be said or shown about the Obamas that will cause any waiver in their support.
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 9:37 AM
vadaryl
Jim told me he read that MLRO was actually discussing Bush and she was asking, "why'd he..." not saying "whitey".
Thanks Jim....grrrrr...LOLOLOL!!
Posted by: LushIsLinda
| June 2, 2008 9:37 AM
If the site can't display then millions of others are interested in it too.
Posted by: vadaryl
| June 2, 2008 9:37 AM
where did Jim read that info?
Posted by: vadaryl
| June 2, 2008 9:38 AM
Good morning, everyone.
It's getting close. My question is: will Obama be able to reign in enough superdelegates to make his Tuesday night something truly special, or will there be that awkward set of days to follow in which everyone is waiting for the last couple people needed to meet the threshold to endorse?
Posted by: Politics of Utopia
| June 2, 2008 9:39 AM
Just checked in but have to cut grass.Just want to say how nice the early morning crew is.No name calling or hate filled messages.Wish it could always be this way.We can agree to disagree without all the vitrial.
Ruth
Posted by: painter
| June 2, 2008 9:39 AM
Vadaryl
LJ is either lieing or being suckered by people way smarter than him.
After all this silly chatter has to be very entertaining to Republican operatives. Their sides must be sore from all the the laughter at Democratic antics this weekend.
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack
| June 2, 2008 9:40 AM
I'm ready for a discussion about the rest of the election. We don't have anyone running for Senate this year in California .... but what are the reports from other states?
I see a pick-up for Dems in Colorado and New Mexico (the Udall men), as well as Virginia and New Hampshire. Al Franken seems to be in trouble in Minnesota, but reports are that Elizabeth Dole is being strongly challenged in North Carolina. For some reason, the polls currently show that Hillary runs stronger in NC than either Obama or McCain... something not right about that one.
Anyway, four more Dems for the Senate ... judicial appointments will be safe no matter who wins.
Posted by: maggisd
| June 2, 2008 9:40 AM
PU: No, there won't be any awkward days. There will be politicians chomping at the bit to provide the vote for the magic number. These are politicians we are talking about.
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 9:40 AM
ummmmmmm...lemme see if I can find the site...one sec...
Posted by: LushIsLinda
| June 2, 2008 9:41 AM
Atlanta Journal Contitution
"The other observation about Obama’s retreat from Trinity is that it took him three weeks to distance himself from Wright and he departs now insisting that he’ll not denounce the church. This is a guy who’s indecisive or, worse yet, a potential President who can’t turn a bad idea loose. He’s been accused of turning his debate gaffes into foreign policy — the pledge to meet with scoundrels and dictators without preconditions, for example.
So now the picture of his leadership is becoming fuller. He’s most likely a facilitator, not a decision-maker. And to cover that, he proceeds with misstatements and impulse pronouncements and makes them his policy positions. Not good. Not good at all"
http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/shared-blogs/ajc/thinkingright/entries/2008/06/02/barack_obama_whos_now_about.html
Posted by: Lynn C | June 2, 2008 9:42 AM
If there is such a tape, I don't see the point in bringing it out gradually. How would you do that anyway? But from my point of view, it would be revealing if Michelle sat at a table talking to Farrakhan, even without a "whitey" statement. But what do I know? I would think enough had already come out to ruin a candidate.
Just meditate for a minute of the words Pfleger spoke and how inflammatory and racist and sexist they are, and then remember how enlightened and intelligent people have been and are still on tv excusing it and justifying it, and it may be that nothing will affect Obama's becoming the democratic nominee. But president? Never.
Anyway, I'll believe the tape when I see it.
Posted by: lizbeth
| June 2, 2008 9:43 AM
Ally,
Perhaps you're right. Does Obama need a high-profile endorsement today, somebody like, oh, I don't know, Al Gore, to get the party started and goad some of the undecideds? I kind of feel there needs to be an elder statesman, or some higher up to get things rolling. In order for Obama to pull of the requisite number, he's gonna need to have about 25 + delegates before tomorrow night, and I'm skeptical that it will happen.
Posted by: Politics of Utopia
| June 2, 2008 9:43 AM
Ally: I couldn't agree more ... no wonder Sen Obama is so fond of Reagan ... they are both Teflon.
Posted by: maggisd
| June 2, 2008 9:43 AM
I googled "Michelle Obama why'd he" and this was the first site. I don't know if this is exactly what Jim read...but it is basically what he told me.
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message556941/pg1
How did we ever live without google????
Posted by: LushIsLinda
| June 2, 2008 9:44 AM
I agree with those who say the tape will not matter whenever it comes out,if it exists.Nothing sticks to Obama.Only a fraction of what has already came out would have been enough to sink any other candidate,but this one is the Messiah and nothing can touch him.So forget about the tape.It will be useless.
Ruth
Posted by: painter
| June 2, 2008 9:46 AM
PU: I believe the whole thing might already planned out (who will provide the magic vote.) That person could very well be Al Gore. Or, it could be Nancy. Hard to say.
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 9:46 AM
I don't think the tape (if it exists) has to be released to be damaging. what I found most interesting in the 7:43 update was that financial backers are asking the campaign if such a tape exists and they are being stonewalled. Just the possibility that it exists might be enough to keep some SD's from moving right now. Do they want to take the risk?
Posted by: ubns
| June 2, 2008 9:47 AM
P of U: What is interesting to me ... I went back to the basic delegate count today and found that Sen Obama leads Sen Clinton by 115 votes (including the 4 delegates gifted to him on Saturday, I guess)... and that he needs a total of 379 SDs while she needs a total of 494 SDs.
Bearing in mind that SD votes don't count until they are cast, it seems abundantly clear that Sen Obama is relying as heavily on the old-style politicians as Mrs Clinton would have had to do.
I know you take a different view, but were I Mrs Clinton I would insist on being able to have my name put in nomination and my votes counted at the Convention, even if I knew I would fall short.
I think...but cannot be sure...that seeing such an event take place might actually mollify some Clinton supporters.
Posted by: maggisd
| June 2, 2008 9:50 AM
Harold Ickes has been warning SDs for months about a Repub "October Surprise" to be dropped on Obama. In this sort of thing, always look at the timing in addition to the source. Johnson began the "Whitey" story a few weeks ago, it has spread. Hours after the disgraceful DNC theft on Sat, he posted an info alert. Remember, Obama is not the nominee until the roll call vote in Aug - plenty of time for the video to come out and "destroy" Obama. The anti-McCain Repub billionaire can be used as cover by the Clinton campaign.
Posted by: GORDO | June 2, 2008 9:51 AM
I'm glad to see the police in NYC are finally doing something about all the rampant drug use there. They busted Tatum O'Neal last night for trying to buy crack cocaine. Go Red Wings and go Lakers!
Posted by: Corey
| June 2, 2008 9:53 AM
GORDO: I would hate to think that the Clintons would use such a tape, particularly in light of what was done to them in the past. I am pretty certain that the Clinton campaign knew about the Rev Wright and TUCC, since it has been reported on since at least early 2007 ... but they did not circulate the information and, despite what some have said, Sen Clinton resisted commenting on Rev Wright for weeks...and then her response to questioning was quite mild.
Posted by: maggisd
| June 2, 2008 9:56 AM
maggisd,
That's definitely a possibility; however, in this newfangled era of image-orientated, for-show conventions, I don't know if it will happen. In order to mollify the Clinton supporters, the best option seems to me to offer her a high-profile cabinet position, as some reports are already suggesting.
Posted by: Politics of Utopia
| June 2, 2008 9:56 AM
wow... I see some of you actually took my joking about Craig's choice of snack seriously..... com'on lighten up..... it's June and it's a beautiful day here in the northeast....
maggi..... I'm excited that Jeanne Shaheen will be replacing John Sununu in the Senate here in NH....
just want to give a head's up for all you George Lakoff fans.....
he will be on for a full hour with Diane Rehm this morning during her second hour..... 11am to 12pm EST.....
Posted by: RebelliousRenee
| June 2, 2008 9:58 AM
PofU: Note that I said some of her supporters. Nothing will satisfy me ... except perhaps an apology or what I deem to be a heartfelt expression of regret for not condemning those of his surrogates who spent so much time trashing the reputation of Pres Clinton. I want to hear him include Pres Clinton and LBJ in his pantheon of past Democratic leaders of whom we can and should be proud, and not dismiss the good they did.
BTW, I asked you a few days ago, in your studies of Utopian societies, did you ever study New Harmony Indiana and the Owenites? Just curious.
Posted by: maggisd
| June 2, 2008 10:01 AM
Well Craig, good video again. Stay away from the Doritos; they are addicting ! :-) Obama is winning and I see no reason to fight about it any further. What I do think the whole process raises is the issue of how delegates are awarded, i.e. giving stronghold Democratic regions more delegates per vote than areas that have been traditionally Republican. Since the African American community votes nearly 90% for Democrats, this naturally benefitted Mr. Obama in a manner that I think exaggerated his win over Hillary Clinton. However, it's a new day, and the good thing out of this, I think, is that the angry Clinton supporters, and the Clintons themselves, are going to fight for a fairer system in the future. If I were in the states now, I would attend my local party meetings to push reform ideas. I am sure others will be doing their part.
Ever upward and forward...
Tom
Posted by: EuroTom
| June 2, 2008 10:03 AM
Nick: I like the way you are taking dating advice and applying it to politics—it's very appropo.
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 10:04 AM
Maggie,
I think Senator Clinton's name goes into nomination unless she resigns and releases her delegates (usually accompanied by an endorsement ala John Edwards). It is one of the ways she would be honored.
The first ballot is taken with all the states voting their delegates as earned or endorsed. Illinois will probably be skipped so that at the appropriate moment, they could be called upon to put their Senator's name over the top for the nomination followed by lots of balloons and silly stuff.
Then a motion is usually made to make the nomination unanimous though this one might be tricky given some of the hard feelings as it is usually by acclimation and I could imagine a lot of booing going on.
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 10:05 AM
It's been all planned out that Tuesday night or early Wednesday this will be all over. It's just what Hillary will do next. My gut feeling is she will take it to the convention with the hope that Obama will make a big mistake and she can say I'm still here.
Posted by: vadaryl
| June 2, 2008 10:05 AM
maggisd,
I'm willing to bet that you're going to get some, but not all of what you are requesting. Unfortunately, given the way these things work, it might not be until the convention that we get a kind of glance back toward the Clinton years and their influence on the party. As for LBJ, I'm not sure.
In terms of my work: no, I primarily look at late 19th/early 20th century American literature. Utopia in my studies is more of a structural heuristic that links up with Marxist notions of futurity, or post-national subjectivity. I know that sounds like a lot of jargon, and it probably is to anyone outside of English studies, but unfortunately no, I haven't had time to look at those groups. Do you have any suggestions on where I should start?
Posted by: Politics of Utopia
| June 2, 2008 10:06 AM
She may also say she is suspending but not quitting and releasing her delegates.
Posted by: vadaryl
| June 2, 2008 10:06 AM
Craig.... you should have gone to the movies..... then you could have had some great popcorn instead of those nasty Nacho Doritos.....
Posted by Rebellious Renee
LOL... I thought for sure I'd be the only one making the Doritos comment. Popcorn is ever more healthy, of course remembering to use little or no salt and stay away from the butter.
Tom in his "diet mode" mindset
Posted by: EuroTom
| June 2, 2008 10:07 AM
EuroTom: I would like to believe that the weighted delegate apportionment system will be reformed, but I seriously doubt that it will. I rather think that, instead, it will be held out as a carrot in various Latino communities as an example of how powerful their voices might become if they voted en masse for the Democrats.
Posted by: maggisd
| June 2, 2008 10:07 AM
vardaryl,
I kind of agree with you. The question then becomes: who will stick by her. At best she will be seen as a fighter for her supports, but at worst she will be viewed as a villainous figure, hell-bent on ripping apart the party. If she chooses to take it to the convention, I don't think she'll have many Washington supporters.
Posted by: Politics of Utopia
| June 2, 2008 10:08 AM
regarding Dorito-gate, haven't you guys seen the price of popcorn lately? Too rich for my blood . . . http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2008/05/movie-tickets-m.html
Posted by: Craig Crawford
| June 2, 2008 10:10 AM
PofU: I take it, then, that you have read Samuel Butler. (I think that's his name as I recall from English Lit) and his novel about Erehwon?
As to the Owenites and New Harmony Indiana, start off by googling it. They have an interesting "library" there called the Workingman's Institute, established in the early 1800s ... there were two separate Utopian communities there .... the Rappites followed by the Owenites.
My father's family lived in that area from app 1807 through app 1932, although they were not part of the Utopian community themselves but rather New Light Baptists.
Posted by: maggisd
| June 2, 2008 10:12 AM
I heard this the other day on NPR
With the tie vote , there is an interesting problem for Obama
If HRC's name is placed in nomination for VP
The super delegates are not bound Obama supporters they could vote for Obama for president. But they don't have to vote for his choice of VP. They could instead vote HRC instead.
There isn't that more fun than worrying about that silly tape.
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack
| June 2, 2008 10:13 AM
Craig,
Popcorn? Not popcorn! : )
Posted by: Politics of Utopia
| June 2, 2008 10:13 AM
Thanks, maggisd!
Posted by: Politics of Utopia
| June 2, 2008 10:13 AM
McCain just mispronounced "Purim" in front of AIPAC ... back to the "Hebrew Made Easy" practice sessions.
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 10:14 AM
Craig: Maybe there should be Congressional hearings. Isn't the tradition of movies and popcorn as American as baseball?
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 10:15 AM
Any candidate who's been around as long as Hillary has to know when to throw in the towel. I just can't believe that she can't accept losing. There has to be something out there that is keeping her going. Just like her War vote, she stood her gound on that one. knowing taking the easy way out would be, I was wrong on my vote. If it was me I would of quit months ago. We all hate losing. They will do just fine no matter what way she goes, so I am not buying that she will be threw if she fights on. The party won't be broken, they might be stronger.
Posted by: vadaryl
| June 2, 2008 10:15 AM
It's a sad day when popcorn brings down the movie theatre industry. What's the world coming to?
Oh and I may have mentioned I've been dieting.. I am down 20 kilos which is... (44 lbs I think). Only 7 more kilos to go.
Posted by: EuroTom
| June 2, 2008 10:15 AM
Jamie: TY for the explication. It was a good refresher. I was fortunate enough to be at the 1960 convention in LA and remember vividly when the votes went "over the top" ...
PofU: If Sen Clinton suspends her campaign in the interim, there can be nothing wrong with having a real roll call vote. That's how the system is meant to work. Refer to Jamie's post ...
Posted by: maggisd
| June 2, 2008 10:16 AM
McCain is having delusions of adequacy.
Posted by: sturgeone | June 2, 2008 10:16 AM
Eurotom
Popcorn without salt and lots of butter?
why bother
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack
| June 2, 2008 10:16 AM
Is "Doritos" a code word for something??? LOL!
Posted by: Corey
| June 2, 2008 10:17 AM
Good job ET! Keep it up!
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 10:18 AM
maggisd,
That's correct. It would strike me as weird to merely suspend the campaign, as, say Edward's did, simply because there are no more primaries. But who knows.
Also, do you expect her, after this week, to endorse Obama? And if not, what do you think the consequences will be?
Posted by: Politics of Utopia
| June 2, 2008 10:19 AM
if moe howard dean had half of the moxie hillary has he may have risen above the media's incessant playing of his scream and beaten back kerry the loser in 04.
Posted by: sturgeone | June 2, 2008 10:19 AM
Jamie: You gotta give the guy credit for at least trying ... the real question is, does he know what Purim is?
Posted by: maggisd
| June 2, 2008 10:19 AM
Father Pfleger: "America Is The Greatest Sin Against God"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yvCPp03TWg
Posted by: GORDO | June 2, 2008 10:20 AM
McCain just mispronounced "Purim" in front of AIPAC ... back to the "Hebrew Made Easy" practice sessions.
Posted by: Jamie | June 2, 2008 10:14 AM
Didn't he see "For Your Consideration"?
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 10:20 AM
do you expect her, after this week, to endorse Obama?
Posted by: Politics of Utopia
Will she be required to endorse him before the Convention?
Posted by: chloe
| June 2, 2008 10:21 AM
PoU
Amana Colonies http://www.amanacolonies.org/ and http://www.amanacolonies.org/history.htm are both good places to start.
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 10:22 AM
Pflegermaus rises again to 3.875 minutes of fame.
Posted by: sturgeone | June 2, 2008 10:22 AM
PoU
Two link rule
You might want to look into the Shakers as well since there were still four elderly members in existence as late as 2006 http://www.shakerworkshops.com/who-are-the-shakers.htm
You might want to look into New Lanark in Scotland (world heritage site easily available) and the movement begun by Robert Owen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Owen
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 10:23 AM
I know what 'Purim' is. But , I have movie "For Your Consideration" on dvd. They made that movie "Home For Purim". LOL!
Posted by: Corey
| June 2, 2008 10:23 AM
I tried to email Mika at Morning Joe this morning. Returned unopened. Blocked.
Posted by: lizbeth
| June 2, 2008 10:24 AM
McCain just mispronounced "Purim" in front of AIPAC ... back to the "Hebrew Made Easy" practice sessions.
Posted by: Jamie | June 2, 2008 10:14 AM
Didn't he see "For Your Consideration"?
Posted by: Ally | June 2, 2008 10:20 AM
I know what 'Purim' is. But , I have movie "For Your Consideration" on dvd. They made that movie "Home For Purim". LOL!
Posted by: Corey | June 2, 2008 10:23 AM
Great minds Corey. Great minds.
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 10:25 AM
chloe,
I think probably, yes. But I don't know.
This would be a good question for Craig: what's the precedent for something like this, historically? When's the last time a close-fought primary ended with one opponent refusing to endorse the other, suspending his/her campaign indefinitely, etc.? This question requires a long memory.
Posted by: Politics of Utopia
| June 2, 2008 10:25 AM
Maggie
"does he know what Purim is? "
Well he was talking about the children going to school in safety and celebrating Purim so let us hope definitions were included when he was practicing the speech.
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 10:25 AM
didnt thom jefferson win after 30-something ballots in the house of reps over aaron burr?
Posted by: sturgeone | June 2, 2008 10:27 AM
The super delegates are not bound Obama supporters they could vote for Obama for president. But they don't have to vote for his choice of VP. They could instead vote HRC instead.
Jack Posted by: whskyjack
Wonder why no one ever mentions that on CNN, etc.?
I hadn't heard it, but it's makes sense.
When Wolf asked several people that question "Do you think Hillary would make a good running mate for Obama" yesterday, they all said that the decision for veep was up to Obama.
Of course, they were all Obama supporters too.
Posted by: chloe
| June 2, 2008 10:28 AM
When I go to the movies, I actually prefer the warm pretzel bites...but instead of the cheese, I dip them in mustard and jalapeno peppers...ohhhyeahhhh!!
Anyone see Sex and the City? I was surprised at how many men were at the theater!!
Posted by: LushIsLinda
| June 2, 2008 10:31 AM
PofU: You raise an interesting question. It will answer a lot of questions. Were it me, I would not do any endorsing or campaigning until after the Convention -- but that's just me.
Posted by: maggisd
| June 2, 2008 10:32 AM
Linda: Straight men? I am curious because I don't have any friends to go with here but I don't want to drag my husband if it will emasculate him...
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 10:33 AM
"Barack may have quit his church but his religious problems are not over. Barack Obama has a Nation of Islam problem that will receive more attention in the coming days.
It also should come as no surprise that Barack hired two members of the Nation of Islam to work on his staff—Jennifer Mason and Cynthia K. Miller.
...Jeremiah Wright and Michael Pfleger ... listed as spiritual advisors to Barack Obama and also are very close to Louis Farrakhan, forces the question about Barack’s faith and beliefs.
...Louis Farrakhan has been careful to use Tony Rezko as the intermediary in his relationship with Barack. This is not guilt by association, this is guilt because of actual relationship."
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/06/02/michelle-obama-and-louis-farrakhan-take-on-whitey/#more-2847
Posted by: GORDO | June 2, 2008 10:34 AM
Thanks Ally...
Jack... LOL... Popcorn is GOOD for you if you don't load it with the extras. I probably use a bit too much olive oil in my foods, not on popcorn, I am not eating it anymore... but, the high fats are definitely not so healthy.
I gotta say I feel better than I have for a long time, and customers are coming in and saying I look 10 years younger... :-) The fight will go on... after losing there is keeping it off of course, and I am aware of that struggle all too well.
xoxoxox
Posted by: EuroTom
| June 2, 2008 10:34 AM
Anyone see Sex and the City? I was surprised at how many men were at the theater!! Posted by: LushIsLinda
They probably didn't have a choice, being with their wife or girl friend. Mine wasn't excited about the idea, so I didn't push it. I'll see it this week though. How was it?
Posted by: chloe
| June 2, 2008 10:34 AM
chloe: Sen Clinton is not required to endorse anyone. She would most certainly do so after the Convention ... the real question is, would she do so before the Convention.
Posted by: maggisd
| June 2, 2008 10:35 AM
Sturgeone
I think the record is 103 ballots
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/03/AR2008030303277_3.html
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 10:35 AM
This is a great website 8~)
eat this...not that
http://www.menshealth.com/eatthis/index.php
Posted by: LushIsLinda
| June 2, 2008 10:35 AM
Jamie: My father's family lived for over a century near the Owenite community in So Indiana ... the same Robert Owens you mention. This was his father's family. Interestingly, his mother's family were from Lanark originally ... they were Royalists who emigrated around about 1652.
The other side of the family are Ukrainian Jews from near Kiev ... their village has now been reclaimed by the forest.
Ain't America a grand country?
Posted by: maggisd
| June 2, 2008 10:38 AM
You raise an interesting question. It will answer a lot of questions. Were it me, I would not do any endorsing or campaigning until after the Convention -- but that's just me.
Posted by: maggisd
It doesn't make much sense for her put her "stamp of approval" on him until he has definitely and undeniably taken hold of the candidacy, or does it?
Posted by: chloe
| June 2, 2008 10:40 AM
Below is a link to a (vaguely) interesting article from Politico about the relationship between the Drudge Report and Obama:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0608/10744.html
Posted by: Politics of Utopia
| June 2, 2008 10:40 AM
GORDO: The Rezko-Farrakhan thing is of great interest to me. Sen Obama has stated that he was invited to Chicago by Rezko at some point (not clear when) to work with him in real estate, but that he (Obama) turned him down. Rezko began his career in Chicago working with / for Farrakhan in community development.
There is a whole nexus there of people who seem to have made a career of skimming from government grants, all the while railing against the powers that be.
Posted by: maggisd
| June 2, 2008 10:43 AM
Have a good morning, all. I've got to mosey off to do some work.
Posted by: Politics of Utopia
| June 2, 2008 10:43 AM
Sen Clinton is not required to endorse anyone. She would most certainly do so after the Convention ... the real question is, would she do so before the Convention. Posted by: maggisd
Maggi,
I do see her as "required" by the party to do whatever they want her to do. That's the way I see her thinking, she's loyal. I intentionally used that word.
Posted by: chloe
| June 2, 2008 10:43 AM
Maggie
When I went to Scotland, one of the places I enjoyed most was New Lanark
http://www.newlanark.org/
The picture that appeared over the "summer of love" event was taken there with one of the statues.
Here are a few of the pictures from that trip
http://jdurward.blogspot.com/2006/06/new-lanark-world-heritage-site.html
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 10:43 AM
chloe: I personally don't think so. If it were me, I'd go back home, take a really long bubble bath, put on my best face and go back to the Senate for the time being. And just wait. I don't see that she needs to do much of anything at this point.
Posted by: maggisd
| June 2, 2008 10:45 AM
Rezko began his career in Chicago working with / for Farrakhan in community development. maggisd
Maggi, I hadn't realized that Rezko and Farrakhan had any ties. The plot thickens. There must be so much we will never know.
Posted by: chloe
| June 2, 2008 10:46 AM
Maggi, I like your idea. Very much.
Posted by: chloe
| June 2, 2008 10:47 AM
Jamie: Thank you very much. I've added you to my favorites. The Owenite Workingman's Institute in New Harmony Indiana is still functioning today.
I actually had no idea that the Owenite movement originated in New Lanark ... I have always been fascinated by the fact that my paternal grandparents' families lived within 10 miles of each other in what is now Davie Co NC but that they met on a street corner in Washington DC after the war...they grew up about two counties apart in Indiana but never knew each other prior to WWI.
As to Scotland...in my two trips to the UK I never managed to get farther north than Oxford....I kept getting sidetracked by my need to visit literary sites.
Posted by: maggisd
| June 2, 2008 10:51 AM
Linda: Straight men? I am curious because I don't have any friends to go with here but I don't want to drag my husband if it will emasculate him...
--Ally
men with women, men with men, women with women, a few men with a couple women, a few women with 1-2 men...the theater was packed!!!
I don't think anyone thought about anything other than we were all there to enjoy the movie!!
Jim would have gone, with just me, but he didn't want to do "lunch with the gurlz"...he went golfing 8~)
Posted by: LushIsLinda
| June 2, 2008 10:51 AM
OK Linda. Thanks for the info. My husband is not a manly man anyway...I just felt bad dragging him there with me if he had the only boys in the theater. On the other hand, I don't know how popular the show is here in Iowa anyhow...the theater might not be that crowded!
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 10:53 AM
chloe
I loved the movie(SATC)...and I had never even watched the show, on a regular basis 8~)
Posted by: LushIsLinda
| June 2, 2008 10:54 AM
chloe: Eventually we will know a great deal more than we do. Lynn Sweet at the Chicago Sun Times has been reporting on Sen Obama for years ... but she is the type who doesn't leap to conclusions, only reports solid facts.
It's not that I find Sen Obama's associations necessarily sinister ... what I don't like is that I feel we are being asked to accept a pig in a poke ... a man who purports to be above politics but whose entire career (since about the age of 25) seems to have been that of an ordinary politician.
It's the old Wizard of Oz thing ... pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. I am the Great and Powerful Oz ...
Posted by: maggisd
| June 2, 2008 10:54 AM
EuroTom..... good job with the weight loss....
"Is "Doritos" a code word for something??? LOL!"
Corey..... yes..... it is derived from the Irish words "Dori" and "tos"..... and it means....... GO CELTICS!
Posted by: RebelliousRenee
| June 2, 2008 10:58 AM
Dog: There's a lot of space between challenging the delegate count and simply sitting on her delegates and going to the Convention.
Posted by: maggisd
| June 2, 2008 11:03 AM
"I kept getting sidetracked by my need to visit literary sites. "
Now how could you do a "literary" tour and not visit Ayrshire for Robert Burns. It is a pleasant walking tour and the lunch at the "Brig O' Doon" Hotel is very nice
http://www.costley.biz/index.php?p=84
And now you know how "Brigadoon" the musical got its name for the town hidden in the mists.
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 11:05 AM
I'll give you Clintonites this: We'll be six months into the Obama presidency and you'll still be talking about how Hillary can still win this thing.
Posted by: Mr. Democrat | June 2, 2008 11:10 AM
Maggis
And a lot of broad political reasons to do so.
One is to change some of the rules for selecting delegates.
There are other issues that will be fought for by the DLC types to prevent the party from becoming totally controled by the left wingers. Power wise at this point she is in a stronger position than Obama. He needs her. She doesn't need him. She can go home and take that long hot bath secure in her position. Her people are loyal they aren't going anywhere.
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack
| June 2, 2008 11:10 AM
While I don't begrudge Sen Kennedy's getting the best medical care money could buy, I know since I don't have any insurance doctors would send me home to die.
Posted by: Cassie | June 2, 2008 11:12 AM
killfile
Posted by: Mr. Democrat | June 2, 2008 11:10 AM
Posted by: foxfire is your friend | June 2, 2008 11:13 AM
It's not that I find Sen Obama's associations necessarily sinister.. Maggisd
Maggi,
I do think you can begin to judge a person by his associations, as they are choices he has made.
I don't feel we have the whole picture here yet, but there is a pattern. And unless I see a break in that pattern somewhere along the way, what else am I suppose to judge him by. He has very little on record. And I do think that we attract, and gravitate toward, others who are like us.
Posted by: chloe
| June 2, 2008 11:17 AM
Jack: I couldn't agree with you more. The SDs might desert her, and some of her professional campaign staff may want to join the other campaign so they can be gainfully employed, but her pledged delegates are leverage. And, if Sen Obama is as smart as everyone says he is, he will know that having her name be put into nomination, and her supporters allowed a little chanting, and even allowing the vote to go forward will be symbolically very important for the Democratic Party.
Posted by: maggisd
| June 2, 2008 11:17 AM
I know since I don't have any insurance doctors would send me home to die. Posted by: Cassie
A sad state of things.
Hopefully thing will change.
Posted by: chloe
| June 2, 2008 11:19 AM
......if Sen Obama is as smart as everyone says he is, he will know that having her name be put into nomination, and her supporters allowed a little chanting, and even allowing the vote to go forward will be symbolically very important for the Democratic Party. Posted by: maggisd
But Maggi,
when has his campaign ever done anything this agreeable in the past?
Posted by: chloe
| June 2, 2008 11:23 AM
I don't know how often larry Johnson's blog is updated on a normal day but it's interesting that there has been no update since 7:43 this morning. On Sunday it was updated a lot during the day. Just to save some face he should say something why he did not post the tape at 9.
Posted by: vadaryl
| June 2, 2008 11:23 AM
chloe: I do agree with your overall sentiment. In his defense, however, I want to say that Sen Obama's background and upbringing may have worked against him here. He did not come to live inside an African-American community until he was in his mid-20s. The community within which he found himself turned out to be fairly radical, but he may not have realized how non-mainstream some of these people were.
On the other hand, I continue to be troubled by Rev Wright's statements "we groomed him for years for this" and, "I always told him he would have to cut his ties with me some day." The man may have a jumped up opinion of his own influence ... but equally we may have a candidate with a hidden agenda. I just don't know.
Posted by: maggisd
| June 2, 2008 11:23 AM
....he should say something why he did not post the tape at 9.
Posted by: vadaryl
Must be in limbo.
Posted by: chloe
| June 2, 2008 11:25 AM
chloe: They have never done anything agreeable. And, the events of Saturday were, to me, the final piece of evidence that his campaign advisors want nothing more than to grind her into the dirt. That Michigan delegate deal was so terribly egregious.
Posted by: maggisd
| June 2, 2008 11:26 AM
Now that I think about it, Larry did pull the 9 announcement link yesterday. Not sure if it was there Saturday either.
Posted by: vadaryl
| June 2, 2008 11:27 AM
vadaryl: OK....I'm confused about the tape. I thought someone else had the purported tape. I didn't think Johnson himself had access to it.
Posted by: maggisd
| June 2, 2008 11:27 AM
I wish I would of copied his first link about announcing the tape on Monday at 9. Then he had a comment that some network had a copy of the tape and now nothing. The network comment included the FOX's Rivera interview about the tape.
Posted by: vadaryl
| June 2, 2008 11:29 AM
In six months the Obamabots will be trying to blame everyone but themselves for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
Posted by: Mr. Demogague | June 2, 2008 11:30 AM
Mr Demagogue: I was thinking earlier today that if Sen McCain were the John McCain of 2000, Sen Obama wouldn't have a ghost of a chance to win .... on the other hand, if wishes were horses, as they say ....
Posted by: maggisd
| June 2, 2008 11:33 AM
ET,
I hope your weight loss is helping you to feel healthier and happier. Being able to lose that much, absent illness, is a major accomplishment. Be proud of yourself!
Posted by: Flatus
| June 2, 2008 11:34 AM
He did not come to live inside an African-American community until he was in his mid-20s. The community within which he found himself turned out to be fairly radical, but he may not have realized how non-mainstream some of these people were. maggisd
Maggi,
yes, I have seen it that way too.
I don't think it was planned by him that way in the beginning, and I do think that most of his intentions were good.
But 20 years?
Doesn't some of that rub off onto him when you choose to keep yourself and your family exposed to that point of view for all that time. His children were actually born into it through his and Michelle's own decision.
Not only do they believe in the meanness of American and the white men who have run it, but they also believe that they're victims of it. There's nothing wrong with being aware of the unfairness of what's happened in our history, but why not learn more about how to change it instead of teaching hate.
Posted by: chloe
| June 2, 2008 11:34 AM
Nah, we'll leave that to you Clintonites. You guys seem good at finding excuses for EVERYTHING. MSM against you? Check. All men against you? Check. Women not supporting Clinton against you? Check. Caucuses against you? Check.
Posted by: Mr. Democrat | June 2, 2008 11:34 AM
Vadaryl
Your starting to look foolish. Give it a rest. Gordo will carry on for you. he doesn't mind looking the idiot.
Is this your tape maybe
http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2008/6/1/235757/2325
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack
| June 2, 2008 11:35 AM
Obambots are on their own.
Your campaign,your pity party
You wanted it you've got it
You wanted it all to yourselves
now its yours.
Posted by: Mr. Demogague | June 2, 2008 11:36 AM
chloe: I agree with you that with 20 years of exposure, some of the anti-American sentiment may well have rubbed off on him.
Remember in this context that he lost his first political contest to Bobby Rush ... a man who can barely string two words together, but an old-time radical par excellence. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think a former Black Panther.
Therefore, if Obama wished to be successful in politics, he needed to be a little less whitebread. I actually think that Obama didn't intend to run for President when he was first elected to the Senate .... otherwise he would have left TUCC much earlier ... there are at least 8 other UCC churches in the general vicinity. Somehow or other, he decided now was the time and he jumped in hoping he would be on a roll before these associations came out. Once his campaign invented the story that the Clintons were out to destroy him, and the media sustained it, no new information was relevant.
Posted by: maggisd
| June 2, 2008 11:41 AM
Being able to lose that much, absent illness, is a major accomplishment. Be proud of yourself! Posted by: Flatus
The important thing is to take it off slowly (1-2 lbs. week) therefore changing your eating habits in such a way that you will continue eating that way for the rest of your life.
I read that the body is in a constant state of hunger, and when you think of it that way, you don't feel guilty for being hungry too often. Just eat very "nutrionally full" foods, and the weight gain stops. For me, lots of fruit does it.
Did you "realize" that fruit is "plant ovaries". Once I thought of it that way, fruit took on a whole new meaning. All the ingredients for life are in that one apple.
Posted by: chloe
| June 2, 2008 11:41 AM
the last paragraph in your link, Whsykjack, was quite moving, i thought -- and a process that many Democrats, including so many here, are about to face:
"This election has ruined a lot of friendships. I have tried hard not to let it ruin mine. But smears of this type are unforgivable. I have been forebearing. Perhaps, in retrospect, I have been too forebearing. That's all I say. This is too painful to me." (BoomanTribune.com)
http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2008/6/1/235757/2325
Posted by: Craig Crawford
| June 2, 2008 11:41 AM
Craig you are right.
Posted by: vadaryl
| June 2, 2008 11:44 AM
It's going to get boring until the conventions. Then heat up until November. Oh well it was fun while it lasted.
Posted by: vadaryl
| June 2, 2008 11:46 AM
maggi,
I think his plan was always to run for President. It was just a matter of timing, and he said himself that "this was the moment", although originally he probably planned to wait longer.
I also think, since it took so long for the church to become an issue, that the campaign thought it was a problem it could deal with.
And now that he thinks he's got the nomination, he feels that the sacrifice of quitting his church is worth the prize.
Posted by: chloe
| June 2, 2008 11:47 AM
Larry Johnson NEVER said he was going to post the video today or ever.
Posted by: GORDO | June 2, 2008 11:47 AM
That is...if the smear turns out to be a smear and not true. I would rather not have as friends anyone who claims the Clintons are racists.
What about all the smears against the Clintons
Posted by: Mr. Demogague | June 2, 2008 11:49 AM
"This election has ruined a lot of friendships."
Craig: Wow ... truer words have never been spoken, my husband and I have been together a long time. We have known each other since high school but we have never been so at odds politically in our lives. We could always discuss politics but now our discussions end up in shouting matches.
As someone mentioned yesterday, Barack Obama will go down as one of the most divisive figures in the 21st century.
I have been a lifelong Democrat and because of Barack Obama I am now a declared Independent. I never thought that would happen to me. I think it is safe to observe that Democratic women will not come back to the fold like a dutiful wife this November.
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 11:49 AM
Craig: Are you going to talk about the VP thing tonight since that discussion was preempted last week?
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 11:49 AM
Gordo: I think you are right about Johnson. He said he would have more "details" on Monday, didn't he?
This stuff has certainly taken on a life of its own.
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 11:51 AM
Methinks Mr. Drudge has a huge "man" crush on Senator Obama.
Probably sends a tingle up his leg.
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 11:54 AM
Ally, havent heard yet what they're planning for Abrams segment tonight
Posted by: Craig Crawford
| June 2, 2008 11:54 AM
Today's Savage Chickens
http://www.savagechickens.com/blog/2008/06/humans.html
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 11:54 AM
Craig: What have you heard about the Democratic leadership's thoughts about Hillary's women supporters? Are they really taking us for granted like it seems?
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 11:55 AM
As someone mentioned yesterday, Barack Obama will go down as one of the most divisive figures in the 21st century.
Posted by: GAKaren
Karen, and I don't think it became divisive because he is African American. I think it was strategic by his campaign and him. The very person who promised to end the divisiveness and replace it with unity-and it has come to this. This election was less about unity and more about winning, and I fear that his administration would be the same.
Posted by: chloe
| June 2, 2008 11:59 AM
GAKaren: One thing we can probably all say about this particular campaign ... a contest between Mr Too-cool-for-school and the girl who sat in the front row and knew all the answers was bound to raise tensions far beyond the political.
Posted by: maggisd
| June 2, 2008 11:59 AM
I think crushes of any kind are healthy. One of the main reasons I continue to tune in to Abrams is my unfettered love for Dan. Regardless of whether or not he is a cad (as has been reported.)
(I also tune in to see you Craig!)
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 12:00 PM
Why was leaving this church so sad and painful for Barack? It's not as if he can't go to another church. He's not blocked out of the Christian community. But then he could have chosen another church a long time ago.
What did he find so compelling at this particular one? Was it Jeremiah Wright? Was it the fellow-worshipers who stand and cheer at racist and sexist and hateful sermons? Whe is it so sad for him to leave? He should be so outraged he should be running out of there.
I can't see that he was some innocent person not realizing what it was all about. That argument would have more credibility, I believe, if he had been born and raised in this particular theology and church. To think that as a grown, mature, intelligent man he chose it is to me unforgivable.
Posted by: lizbeth
| June 2, 2008 12:00 PM
Talkleft has a couple of good discussions for and aganst the unty ticket.
http://www.talkleft.com/
Posted by: Lynn C | June 2, 2008 12:00 PM
Chloe: I agree with you entirely. I think his campaign advisors Axelrod and Ploufe saw (after New Hampshire) that his only sure path to the nomination was to demonize the Clintons.
Posted by: maggisd
| June 2, 2008 12:02 PM
Hey Mags
You can be both too cool for school AND sit in the front row while knowing all of the right answers. I know. I was that kid. And you'll outshine the single minded person each and every time.
Posted by: Mr. Democrat | June 2, 2008 12:03 PM
Chloe, Karen and Maggie: The facts are the facts. The only way for Obama to win was to destroy the Clintons (and, in particular Bill Clinton). They had to do something about the fondness many Democrats had for him (and, by association, for her). The thing is, Obama did it in a way that was so masterful, nobody saw it coming (and the media fell for it hook, line and sinker.) I suppose we should have some respect for a winning strategy.
If you combine the smear campaign with the fact that so many young people don't even remember the Clinton years (along with a string of caucus states and old grudges), you have a nominee.
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 12:05 PM
How can Barack unite a nation if he can't unite the democratic party? Or can he?
Posted by: lizbeth
| June 2, 2008 12:06 PM
Question for all of you: What's the policy on health insurance for politicians after they leave office? Some woman at the beach last night was trying to get people to sign a petition that would put an amendment on the November election to end all insurance benefits for politicians once they are no longer in office. Is this a state or federal policy that politicians may still receive health insurance eventhough they are no longer in office? I didn't sign this petition , by the way. I don't sign anything without a lawyer present! LOL!
Posted by: Corey
| June 2, 2008 12:06 PM
And the Clintons decided to marginalize Obama by making him the "black candidate" so that it would appear that he had a limited appeal. So let's call it even.
Posted by: Mr. Democrat | June 2, 2008 12:07 PM
Corey: There is no such thing as a Federal initiative so this must be something that applies only to your state. I am certain the rules vary from state to state.
Posted by: maggisd
| June 2, 2008 12:09 PM
One thing that Sen. Obama and his team need to realize that like it or not, fair or not, every single one of pundits, bloggers, the trollers on the internet is one of their representatives until such time as he speaks out against them.
All of the women who follow politics are getting bombarded with this garbage and trying to discount it over and over, but having the sensation that failure to address is acceptance of the attitude
Would he want his wife and daughters treated the way Sen. Clintons supporters have been treated or would he want them to hear the threats and vile suggestions?
Both campaigns probably need to say something about all of the troll spew, but as the one likely to win, the major obligation rests with Sen. Obama.
That old chant of "No justice, No Peace" is probably in effect with a slight alteration, "No denial, No vote".
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 12:09 PM
No, I disagree that the Clintons made Obama the "black candidate". He did that himself. He is the one who put race right up front when he gave his speech to try and save himself when the Wright videos came out.
Posted by: lizbeth
| June 2, 2008 12:10 PM
Mr Democrat: It is my belief that the Clintons did no such thing. The racist meme stemmed almost entirely from the Obama campaign talking points memo widely circulated in SC and then took on a life of its own.
Posted by: maggisd
| June 2, 2008 12:11 PM
Bo Diddley has passed away at 79
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgzn7VyoqEw&feature=related
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 12:12 PM
Mr. Democrat: I don't agree with your assertion that the Clintons made him the "black candidate."
"More than any other maneuver, this one has brought Clinton into disrepute with important portions of the Democratic Party. A review of what actually happened shows that the charges that the Clintons played the "race card" were not simply false; they were deliberately manufactured by the Obama camp and trumpeted by a credulous and/or compliant press corps in order to strip away her once formidable majority among black voters and to outrage affluent, college-educated white liberals as well as college students. The Clinton campaign, in fact, has not racialized the campaign, and never had any reason to do so. Rather the Obama campaign and its supporters, well-prepared to play the "race-baiter card" before the primaries began, launched it with a vengeance when Obama ran into dire straits after his losses in New Hampshire and Nevada--and thereby created a campaign myth that has turned into an incontrovertible truth among political pundits, reporters, and various Obama supporters. This development is the latest sad commentary on the malign power of the press, hyping its own favorites and tearing down those it dislikes, to create pseudo-scandals of the sort that hounded Al Gore during the 2000 campaign. It is also a commentary on how race can make American politics go haywire. Above all, it is a commentary on the cutthroat, fraudulent politics that lie at the foundation of Obama's supposedly uplifting campaign."
http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=aa0cd21b-0ff2-4329-88a1-69c6c268b304
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 12:12 PM
Mr. D
You set the standard for foolish in here.
Barack Obama did that to himself.
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack
| June 2, 2008 12:18 PM
regarding Dorito-gate, haven't you guys seen the price of popcorn lately? Too rich for my blood . . . http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2008/05/movie-tickets-m.html
Posted by: Craig Crawford | June 2, 2008 10:10 AM
=============
My daughter is a manager at an AMC Theater here & has been talking about how much popcorn & other snacks have been going up, especailly since the beginning of the year .. but, at least we can get in free to the movies, so that helps ..
!:^)
viv
Posted by: Viv
| June 2, 2008 12:20 PM
Corey,
Usually the insurance benefits are part of a "retirement" package and those rights and privileges for elected officials vary from state to state as to length of service. Your state may have some continuation of access to a state plan at those group rates even though they may have only served one term and have no retirement benefits. This could be a very favorable package with a high cost to the tax payers.
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 12:20 PM
The "race speech" was hailed as the most magnificent speech since the I have a Dream Speech when, in fact, it is the most divisive speech ever given. Obama called for a discussion about race in order to cover himself for J. Wright's "bombastic" comments from the pulpit. I have the sense that right then and there, upon his invitation, he was suddenly the black candidate. Prior to that time, it was inconsequential.
Posted by: lizbeth
| June 2, 2008 12:21 PM
"Just want to say how nice the early morning crew is.No name calling or hate filled messages." -Ruth
ROFLMAO
Posted by: Rezdog
| June 2, 2008 12:21 PM
"......race can make American politics go haywire..." Ally
http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=aa0cd21b-0ff2-4329-88a1-69c6c268b304
And it didn't have to either.
Posted by: chloe
| June 2, 2008 12:21 PM
"Just want to say how nice the early morning crew is.No name calling or hate filled messages." -Ruth
or, Thank you Ruth
Posted by: chloe
| June 2, 2008 12:22 PM
This is the Larry Johnson post from Sat, notice he never said the video itself would be available at that time.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BREAKING NEWS: Michelle’s Whitey Problem
"New and dramatic developments. This is a heads up. I’ll post the news Monday morning by 0900 hours. Now I know why people who have seen the videotape say it is stunning. Barack’s headaches are only starting."
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/05/31/breaking-news-michelles-whitey-problem/
Posted by: GORDO | May 31, 2008 9:48 PM
Posted by: GORDO | June 2, 2008 12:25 PM
Fake Weed joke bombs at MTV Awards:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080602/ap_en_tv/mtv_movie_awards_fake_marijuana;_ylt=AhtlO6TAOhaxWUPvp3Ymr6Cs0NUE
Posted by: Corey
| June 2, 2008 12:26 PM
Ally: Thanks for that post. The writer says exactly what I feel.
It is interesting that Scott McClelland's book has focused the media cameras on themselves and what they have seen is not pretty. It's would be comical to see how the media has suddenly realized their role as cheerleaders in the lead-up to the war was so obvious to anyone with a brain if the blood of our armed forces and innocent Iraqis were not dripping from their hands.
Who knows? Perhaps four or five years from now the media will suddenly realize they propped up a very undeserving candidate for President in 2007-2008(deja vu from 1999-2000) for the sake of a good story.
Ratings trumps reality every time these days.
It would seem the media gravitates to empty and shallow. How else can you explain their adoration of W in 99-00 and Obama 07-08?
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 12:30 PM
....The thing is, Obama did it in a way that was so masterful, nobody saw it coming ....Ally
Ally, I have not seen Obama masterful at anything (unless you count speeches that are written by someone else).
His campaign was masterful, and there were forces behind that campaign that I can't even begin to fathom.
Posted by: chloe
| June 2, 2008 12:31 PM
Chloe: I agree with you entirely. No question but that Axelrod, who looks and speaks like a major schlumpf acrually operates a brilliant political machine. How this translates into governance is unknown and unknowable ... at one time it was a widely held view that Karl Rove also operated a brilliant political machine.
Posted by: maggisd
| June 2, 2008 12:34 PM
Chloe: OK...gotcha. The Obama Campaign did it so masterfully...
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 12:36 PM
HRC to go Indy? Don't laugh, she may and if she does she just might win! It worked for Joe Lieberman.
Posted by: FryDaddy
| June 2, 2008 12:38 PM
Bo Diddley. Dead at the age of 79.
Posted by: FryDaddy
| June 2, 2008 12:39 PM
Perhaps four or five years from now the media will suddenly realize they propped up a very undeserving candidate for President in 2007-2008(deja vu from 1999-2000) for the sake of a good story. Posted by: GAKaren | June 2, 2008 12:30 PM
Karen, do you really think it was for the sake of a good story? My husband said it was for good ratings too, but I always felt that MSNBC and Cnn to a lesser extent slanted the field because they wanted Obama to get the nomination since the beginning and were out to make sure that happened.
But I don't know why. Maybe just a hate of the Clintons?
Posted by: chloe
| June 2, 2008 12:40 PM
Obama is masterful at one thing ... getting powerful people to prop him up and push him along.
Obama is much like George W. Bush in that way the only difference is he has a functioning brain and he came from a vastly different economic background than W.
Obama would certainly be a successful attorney at a prestigious law firm which is much more than W would have ever attained on his own. But Obama would not be where he is at today without some very powerful mentors and patrons.
I'll give him this much ... he sure knows how to game a system while purporting that he has an untarnished halo. And yes, he does possess Reagan teflon.
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 12:40 PM
Oh, I like that idea of Hillary going Independent. I believe she could actually win it and then she wouldn't be obligated to put her influence and status behind the Obama campaign.
Posted by: lizbeth
| June 2, 2008 12:41 PM
Obama is masterful at one thing ... getting powerful people to prop him up and push him along. Posted by: GAKaren June 2, 2008 12:40 PM
That's because they own him.
Posted by: chloe
| June 2, 2008 12:43 PM
Tennis ..... later
Posted by: maggisd
| June 2, 2008 12:44 PM
Chloe: Probably a little bit of both. Obama is an attractive figure. He photographs beautifully, can often spout a nanosecond soundbyte and he is a minority. All the makings of great ratings. The bonus? The media can use this guy to savage the Clintons. The Clintons have always been the whipping boy/girl of the media and the pundits are enjoying every minute of this.
Chris Matthews has never had as much fun in his life since he ogled W in his flight suit.
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 12:45 PM
Upset on the women's side , maggisd.
Posted by: Corey
| June 2, 2008 12:46 PM
Lunch. Later.
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 12:47 PM
Well, you guys have given me much to think about today.
Thank you.
now I must skedaddle
Posted by: chloe
| June 2, 2008 12:48 PM
The D brain trust is going to count every delegate in FL and MI as 1/2 vote. WOW. Did you know the D party use to count every Afro- American as 2/3 of a white vote. Now the D party has degraded their white female voters to something less than cannon fodder. The R party could not have orchestrated such an event. Way to go Dean.
Posted by: FryDaddy
| June 2, 2008 12:48 PM
maggi: As a Chicagoan I can tell you that Axlerod was Karl Rove before there was a Karl Rove!
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 12:49 PM
Retired Lieutenant General Ricardo Sanchez, has a tell all book out too. Way more scary than McClellahans
a direct quote from George Bush( I kid you not) giving a pep talk to his staff and advisors
"Kill them! Be confident! Prevail! We are going to wipe them out!"
http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/174938/kill_them_we_are_going_to_wipe_them_out_
Posted by: worried | June 2, 2008 12:51 PM
That is an old quote, and that is exactly what you do to your enemies. You kill them, and as many of them as you can, cause if you don't you risk them coming back and killing you. So stop being worried, worried. Be only worried if BHO is elected POTUS.
Posted by: FryDaddy
| June 2, 2008 12:57 PM
BHO wants to talk to this person.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080602124328.f6eyi8y1&show_article=1
Posted by: FryDaddy
| June 2, 2008 1:01 PM
....The thing is, Obama did it in a way that was so masterful, nobody saw it coming ....Ally
Ally, I have not seen Obama masterful at anything (unless you count speeches that are written by someone else).
His campaign was masterful, and there were forces behind that campaign that I can't even begin to fathom.
Posted by: chloe | June 2, 2008 12:31 PM
At the very least, Obama's Mastery is the choices he made with his staff and his decisions in the way he raised money and influenced voters.
You can't take that away from him and certainly Hillary Clinton and her staff proved earily on the Arrogance doesn't win an election.
You certainly have sour grapes here. Keep eating that variety and you will only get sicker.
Posted by: Political Operative... | June 2, 2008 1:01 PM
Clinton seeks to go after Obama superdelegates
"One thing about superdelegates is that they can change their minds," she told reporters aboard her campaign plane Sunday night.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080602/ap_on_el_pr/democrats
(Wonder what would cause SDs to change their minds? Maybe the MO "whitey" video?)
Posted by: GORDO | June 2, 2008 1:02 PM
Everytime I take a few weeks off and then return I see more and more new niks and less and less old niks. Where the hell is Sheila, dog, RR, Blue, Patsi, pogo, harborwoman etc???? Who am I suppose top fight with???? This is so sad.
Posted by: FryDaddy
| June 2, 2008 1:06 PM
What a bunch of farkin morons
crying over the tape but posting every anonymous story about the Clintons
Obama made himself the black candidate with help of Oprah...it's our turn now and fake nonpartisans like
fsh fry Clyburn.
to farkin bad
talk about burnt toast
Posted by: Brian de Clinton | June 2, 2008 1:07 PM
You can't take that away from him and certainly Hillary Clinton and her staff proved earily on the Arrogance doesn't win an election. - Political Operative
I don't know about that, Barack Obama is sure proving that Arrogance is winning an election at this point in time. The Annointed One is as arrogant as the rest of them. Not to mention thin-skinned.
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 1:07 PM
Gordo thanks for finding out what Larry Johnson posted the other day. Then what he did at 7:43 is exactly what he said he would do. It just came before 9. I thought he said he would post the tape but reading it again he never did.
So this link is what he did at 7:43
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/06/02/thread-2-michelle-obama-and-louis-farrakhan-take-on-whitey/#more-2885
First link was:
BREAKING NEWS: Michelle’s Whitey Problem
"New and dramatic developments. This is a heads up. I’ll post the news Monday morning by 0900 hours. Now I know why people who have seen the videotape say it is stunning. Barack’s headaches are only starting."
Posted by: vadaryl
| June 2, 2008 1:08 PM
FryDaddy,
Where you been, just standing on the side looking at the trainwreck?
Posted by: Bowmanc
| June 2, 2008 1:10 PM
Bill Clinton: "Today may be the last day I'm involved in a campaign of this kind"
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Hillary's re-election campaign in 2012 will different - they always are.
Posted by: GORDO | June 2, 2008 1:10 PM
Over 17 million people have now voted for Hillary Clinton, said advisor Mandy Grunwald. Mandy you need to reduce that figure by 1.3 million as the D party is only is only allowing the states of FL and MI 1/2 vote. 1/2 of 2.6 million voters equal 1.3 million.
Posted by: FryDaddy
| June 2, 2008 1:14 PM
Barack Obama is sure proving that Arrogance is winning an election at this point in time. The Annointed One is as arrogant as the rest of them. Not to mention thin-skinned.
Posted by: GAKaren | June 2, 2008 1:07 PM
I don't think so. Real Strategic play by play and point for point. Not bad for someone who you think is less experienced.
And as far as arrogance? I'd say we have witnessed arrogance mixed with humility. Humility that has been witnessed again and again.
Hillary Clinton the Inevitable canididate....not so much anymore. Her staff was too short sighted and she allowed them to run her.
Posted by: Political Operative... | June 2, 2008 1:17 PM
On Thursday we will discussing who the VP choices will be. How exciting is that going to be? Look how much fun we all have had since January and it all ends sometime this week. Well in August we will have another 4 months to go at it again. Rest up for a few weeks and get ready for Nevember.
Posted by: vadaryl
| June 2, 2008 1:18 PM
I thought we were losing these wars?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/frontline/2062440/Afghanistan%27s-Taliban-insurgents-%27on-brink-of-defeat%27.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/31/AR2008053101927.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
Posted by: FryDaddy
| June 2, 2008 1:18 PM
Bo Didley died.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgzn7VyoqEw&feature=related
Posted by: What will happen to the Lucilles | June 2, 2008 1:21 PM
Bowman,
Actually been working, so I don't get here as often as I would like. Lots of new names here, or maybe old names with new faces. lol
Posted by: FryDaddy
| June 2, 2008 1:21 PM
FryDaddy....
I'm still here..... although, getting more than a tad bit bored with the whole fight.....
the same things keep getting said over and over again....
also saddened by the lack of humor in this place nowadays......
Posted by: RebelliousRenee
| June 2, 2008 1:24 PM
I am confused on the popular vote side, not that it matters much anymore. But it would be nice to know what they did for history sake. If they are going to seat the entire deleagates but only give them 1/2 vote, I don't think that also stripes 1/2 of the popular vote too. The delegates were awarded based on the vote in FL. In MI I have no idea what to do with that one.
Posted by: vadaryl
| June 2, 2008 1:24 PM
Drudge is reporting that HRC may be drafting her goodbye speech for Tuesday night:
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9122KC00&show_article=1
Posted by: Politics of Utopia
| June 2, 2008 1:25 PM
HUffPO trolls? Really? Sick bastards they are! I say burn them at the stake.
Posted by: FryDaddy
| June 2, 2008 1:26 PM
Also this:
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/06/02/sources-most-uncommitted-senators-to-endorse-obama/
I was assuming that enough uncommitted superdelegates would endorse today/tomorrow so that he could get the magic number after Montana, but it looks like they're going to wait until later in the week to give HRC her "grace period." I'm not sure about the strategy of this. What do you guys think?
Posted by: Politics of Utopia
| June 2, 2008 1:28 PM
RR :-) Good to see you. I was beginning to wonder if maybe you old timers have gone away. Not that you are old, didn't mean that. lol
Posted by: FryDaddy
| June 2, 2008 1:28 PM
BB King has Lucille.
Posted by: Corey
| June 2, 2008 1:29 PM
PU: I think its a bunch of bunk. He will get pushed over tomorrow. It will be a race to see who gets to be the magic SD to push him over...
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 1:31 PM
Here's something cool. The Electrifying Mojo!
http://www.marilyncarolyn.com/Mojo.mp3
Posted by: Corey
| June 2, 2008 1:32 PM
Posted by: Politics of Utopia | June 2, 2008 1:28 PM
more of the Obama lie machine
the so-called flood of Super delegates who would announce after ..last week the week before and the week before that.
For someone who allegedly has won..looks like he cannot close the deal with the Super Delegates even with threats from lardbutts like Richardson
Posted by: Brian de Clinton | June 2, 2008 1:32 PM
Where in the heck is Joe Scarborough? Even though his wife is in a delicate position, you would think he would be doing remotes. I just don't know how much longer I can handle Mika solo. Thank goodness Harold was there this morning...
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 1:33 PM
Hang in there RR, come November things will get back to normal. Don't throw in the towel, you be giving up all the seniority you have built up.
Posted by: FryDaddy
| June 2, 2008 1:33 PM
FD
Full popular vote - seating full delegation they only get a 1/2 vote
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 1:36 PM
The Electrifying Mojo one more time:
http://blogfiles.wfmu.org/DY/electrifying_mojo_halloween_rap.mp3
Posted by: Corey
| June 2, 2008 1:36 PM
Popular Vote.
Bottom Line Today.
Popular Vote Total
Obama 17,389,253 48.1%
CLinton 17,364,667 48.0%
= Obama +24,586 +0.1%
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/
Tomorrow the spread will be more difined. Obama has won the Popular vote too.
Posted by: Political Operative... | June 2, 2008 1:38 PM
That's what I'v been thinking , Political Operative. The race for President is nothing more than a popularity contest. LOL!
Posted by: Corey
| June 2, 2008 1:40 PM
Fry....
I don't care about "senority"..... I like a lot of the newbies..... they help to make this place a thriving community, IMO....
I just wish some had more of a sense of humor......
we only have one vote and can't control the whole process..... I learned a long time ago not to take the stuff one can't control so seriously..... I find it easier going through life that way......
Posted by: RebelliousRenee
| June 2, 2008 1:43 PM
Jamie,
Correct me if I am wrong, but weren't the D really pissed off in 2000 when Gore received 500K more votes than W but didn't get elected. So as an R watching all this folly I find it totally unexplainable how the D party can now do the same thing to the person who has received more votes, and go on like business as usual.
Posted by: FryDaddy
| June 2, 2008 1:45 PM
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/06/bill-clinton-th.html
In which Bill admits "This may be last day I'm ever involved in a campaign of this kind."
Along with the reports today that the Clinton peeps are asking their staffers to turn in their expense receipts, I think we can see that maybe, just maybe she might actually quit by the end of the week.
I never thought it would be this easy, and until it happens I'm going to keep my fingers crossed, but we may have a peaceful, graceful exit yet.
Posted by: Politics of Utopia
| June 2, 2008 1:47 PM
I am in denial. I guess I will hold out hope that Hillary will pull it out until someone actually gets the nomination. Officially.
Posted by: lizbeth
| June 2, 2008 1:49 PM
Fry,
The popular vote total is really hard to calculate, and it isn't really a relevant metric to gauge the primaries by because of the caucuses, delegates, and superdelegates. Think of it like this: only 40 states voted. Do you simply discount the others? I appreciate what you're trying to do, but I'm not sure if it really makes sense in this context.
Posted by: Politics of Utopia
| June 2, 2008 1:49 PM
The Obama campaign is just walking back their brag that after the Mi and Fla meeting all the Super D's would announce for Obamabot
more bullcrap
If they could end it they would
they don'tgie a crap about Senator Clinton and a graceful exit
They've been trying to force her out for months
Patrick leahy for example and all the otherbigmouth loserswho can try to shove around Clinton but can't stand up to the GOP in the senate.
booohoooboohooo
Posted by: Brian de Clinton | June 2, 2008 1:50 PM
Updated June 1, 2008 - 8:49 PM EST
Clinton 17,673,329
Obama 17,355,652
http://abcnews.go.com/politics
Posted by: GORDO | June 2, 2008 1:53 PM
Superdelegates can change their minds up until the hammer falls in Denver, right?
I can't believe they aren't feeling some pressure right about now. The internet is running over with angry people who are not going to vote for Obama.
Posted by: lizbeth
| June 2, 2008 1:56 PM
Some Findings:
35.6 million people have voted
The 37 primary states account for 97% of the vote.
The 13 caucus states account for 3% of the vote.
Bottom line: Clinton’s lead is from 34.5 million voters (97%) in Primaries. Obama’s lead is from 1.1 million voters (3%) in caucuses. [More...]
too bad for Obama the general election isn't caucuses
too bad for the rest of us too
Posted by: Brian de Clinton | June 2, 2008 1:58 PM
Clinton's Popular Vote Claim? Close--But No Cigar
Andrew Romano
http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/stumper/archive/2008/06/02/clinton-s-popular-vote-claim-close-but-no-cigar.aspx
Posted by: Political Operative... | June 2, 2008 1:58 PM
Someone mentioned needing a little humor. I recommend watching Morning Mika. It's a giggle-fest. It's almost funny but more infuriating than funny.
Posted by: lizbeth
| June 2, 2008 2:00 PM
I've always liked Mika, what did she do this morning?
Posted by: Politics of Utopia
| June 2, 2008 2:01 PM
The D party for some inexplicable reason has peed on the wrong person's birthday cake. This will come back to haunt them.
Posted by: FryDaddy
| June 2, 2008 2:02 PM
PU, what do you like about her? I won't go into all the reason why I don't. It might make me sound mean or something.
Posted by: lizbeth
| June 2, 2008 2:04 PM
Oh nothing in particular, I just always found her amusing and intelligent - at least compared to some of the other on-air personalities featured on the morning shows.
Posted by: Politics of Utopia
| June 2, 2008 2:05 PM
The D party for some inexplicable reason has peed on the wrong person's birthday cake. This will come back to haunt them.
Posted by: FryDaddy | June 2, 2008 2:02 PM
"Rather pee'd on the RNC's fervent wish to have the Clinton's run. So polarizing are they to the Republican Base."
Posted by: Political Operative... | June 2, 2008 2:06 PM
Good news about Teddy! I've got to get back to work, folks. Have a good afternoon chat!
Posted by: Politics of Utopia
| June 2, 2008 2:06 PM
http://www.talkleft.com/media/caucusjune2.pdf
Posted by: Brian de Clinton | June 2, 2008 2:07 PM
so what's happened with this "damning" Michelle Obama tape?
Posted by: EuroTom
| June 2, 2008 2:09 PM
Mika's face looks like it was made out of left over botox.
Posted by: EuroTom
| June 2, 2008 2:09 PM
Den ver! Den ver!
“Denver! Denver!” is an ancient indigenous phrase meaning, “Obama is the nominee.” Posted by: Christi May 31, 2008 9:29 PM
ROFL
Posted by: Rezdog
| June 2, 2008 2:10 PM
Obama =old Indian phase for lose in November
Posted by: Brian de Clinton | June 2, 2008 2:11 PM
anyone know a good hypnotist that can convince someone that they only like green beans, broccoli and spinach?
Posted by: EuroTom
| June 2, 2008 2:12 PM
The tape is in La La land waiting to poke it's head out sometime in October if it ever does.
Posted by: vadaryl
| June 2, 2008 2:14 PM
Nominee most likely .. but will we all be "ROFL" come the second Wednesday of November ?
Posted by: EuroTom
| June 2, 2008 2:14 PM
ET
You basic dull thud of the garbage rumor mill. The
tape is probably a perfectly innocent speech where she begins several sentences with
"Why did he?" followed by some sin of George Bush. With a soft accent this comes out sounding like "whitey"
No definitive tape yet, but Gordo is still multi posting threats of it being "shocking" when it is finally seen and heard.
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 2:14 PM
Vadaryl, I looked at Larry Johnson's page... he said today at 09:00... so he's either an liar or can't keep track of time.
Posted by: EuroTom
| June 2, 2008 2:14 PM
you don't need no stinkin' hypnotist
just add whatever herbs you like and
Posted by: peppers, garlic and lemon | June 2, 2008 2:15 PM
Jamie i agree... the guy (Larry Johnson) sounds delusional to me... Maybe he and _________ are related.
Posted by: EuroTom
| June 2, 2008 2:16 PM
Tom , if anybody here knew a good hypnotist they wouldn't use them for something as trivial as getting them to like green beans , broccoli and spinach! *When I snap my fingers....you will become a supporter of Obama* *Snap!*
Posted by: Corey
| June 2, 2008 2:17 PM
Den ver! Den ver!
Posted by: Rezdog
| June 2, 2008 2:17 PM
heheheh thanks peppers, garlic and lemon... :)
Posted by: EuroTom
| June 2, 2008 2:17 PM
Here is the thing I don't like about Mika. She does this thing where when someone is talking she is in the background saying things like, "Oh, really!", "OK!", "Oooohhhhh....ahhhhhhh.....", "Wow!" It's like she has Tourette's but I know she is doing it for dramatic effect. It drives me nuts (and I have a good friend with Tourette's and we have discussed it so please, take no offense to the comparison.) She also does this righteous indignation thing when people say bad things about her "Daddy." It's the big eyes, the coyness. It's icky.
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 2:18 PM
Posted by: Jamie | June 2, 2008 2:14 PM
why dd he? Since no one who has seen the tape has come forward this is as much spin as the tape itself.
Oh by Michelle Obama is not from the South not even the Southside of Chicago or was she speaking in a faux accent to pander to the crowd. I thought that was
a capital crime
Posted by: The spin I'm in | June 2, 2008 2:19 PM
Tom , if anybody here knew a good hypnotist they wouldn't use them for something as trivial as getting them to like green beans , broccoli and spinach! *When I snap my fingers....you will become a supporter of Obama* *Snap!*
Sure explains all those fainting Obamabots at his prayer meetings.
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 2:19 PM
Political Operative
Typical think of a dedicated BHO supporter, "We don't need no stinking white female voter". Maybe not now, but you will. The D party has shown their cards.
Posted by: FryDaddy
| June 2, 2008 2:19 PM
I am all over the board on Barack Obama.... Sometimes I think "no way", other times "yes ok" and still other times "possibly". I try to think of ramifications for our country if another Repug is "selected" POTUS...
Thoughts?
Posted by: EuroTom
| June 2, 2008 2:21 PM
Fry: Got that right. You see how successful the Democrats have been over the years when picking a nominee.
2008's Democratic nominee will set the standard for crushing defeats.
Like I've said, the deluded will stand there November 5, 2008 shaking their heads in disbelief and muttering, "What happened?"
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 2:22 PM
Just wanted to let you know that the DNC has quickly responded to my email asking how to be removed from their donor rolls.
Must say I'm pretty impressed about that. Wonder how many requests they've had since Saturday.
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 2:24 PM
Fry: Obama is redrawing the electoral map with his New Coalition. Democrats don't need to rely on the same old demographics any more. They are now more urban and younger. Didn't you get the memo?
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 2:24 PM
Typical think of a dedicated BHO supporter, "We don't need no stinking white female voter". Maybe not now, but you will. The D party has shown their cards.
Posted by: FryDaddy | June 2, 2008 2:19 PM
Typical Speak for a republican operative,,,,didn't you say you were Republican? or "R"?
I've seen many Republicans spreading propoganda here. We love women. Could be great friends. When more truth comes out, some of these women may feel better. Such is life and politics. I applaud these women for their loyalty and sacrifise.
Posted by: Political Operative... | June 2, 2008 2:26 PM
Posted by: Political Operative... | June 2, 2008 2:21 PM
Like I give a crap about what you consider accurate
Real Clear politics also carries articlesby Dick Morris
Of course how Obama to deny any other arguments but the ones you pull out of your ass might exist
at least you named yourself correctly
Posted by: Brian de Clinton | June 2, 2008 2:27 PM
I attended a Washington State Caucus meeting before. It was pretty weird. If you didn't know what was going on, you were pretty much at the mercy of the "experienced" attendees. I can't even remember if we accomplished anything. Probably not... we were all Democrats. I don't remember any Presidential politics at play, so perhaps it was an off-year caucus. It must have been coz it was in someone's living room.
A couple WA state friends of mine said that the Obama supporters greatly out numbered the Clinton supporters and the Obama supporters were particulary domineering and rude. They were tearing down Hillary signs, actively campaigning in the area where people couldn't and actually told one friend that she was in the wrong caucus for Hillary. I wasn't there, but that's what I heard. I think it's tough enough to get sleepy Americans to even vote. Expecting them to attend caucuses during HEROES, LOST or ER is pretty naive. I suppose you could make it a Million dollar lottery if people bothered to vote. Every voter gets a chance to have their name drawn. Short of that, it's a voice of a smidgen from the voters and the party.
Posted by: EuroTom
| June 2, 2008 2:27 PM
Mr. Political Operative: Rest assured that the Republicans got the Democratic nominee of their choice.
Let's face it, Bill Clinton beat them ... twice. And for all you out there that so enjoy using the term "Billary" - that's what the Republicans call them too and prefered to run against the neophyte Obama.
I'm sure the Republicans cannot believe their good fortune and are pretty pumped about their chances in the GE these days.
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 2:28 PM
"good hypnotist that can convince someone that they only like green beans, broccoli and spinach?"
When you are in a totally relaxed state, you are open to suggestion. Not quite sure how the side show guys work, but the real ones understand the brain's psychology.
Simple version:
You're brain does not hear the words "NO" and "NOT". Not sure why it just doesn't (side note: This is one of the reasons the word no doesn't work on a child unless there is other inforcement so you might as well forget it saying it).
What they do is tell you to say "Yes". Yes I want to be thin. Yes fruits and vegetables are good for me. Yes i really enjoy walking.
All of this is usually preceded by an interview to determine what aspects of your life really upset you. so that they can enforce the opposite condition with a yes.
This then needs to be reinforced, usually with recordings of more positive suggestions.
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 2:28 PM
well if Michelle was saying "why did he?"... couldn't she enunciate a bit more? She is an educated woman afterall....
Posted by: EuroTom
| June 2, 2008 2:29 PM
When more truth comes out, some of these women may feel better. Such is life and politics. I applaud these women for their loyalty and sacrifise.
more truth????????????????
WTF does that mean
Do you have a secret decoder ring only given to Obama supporters
Posted by: Brian de Clinton | June 2, 2008 2:30 PM
ah Jamie... good one... I did see a hypnotist once around 1982 as I recall to stop eating sugar. I did go 6 months sugar free, but I suppose I was due for a "booster shot", but I just bought some "HO HO's" instead. :-)
Posted by: EuroTom
| June 2, 2008 2:30 PM
Nick
here is where I found it with links
http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=OTg1YjIzYjFkNjEyMzBiNTY0MDE4ZGRmNjdlN2RjODA=
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack
| June 2, 2008 2:31 PM
ET: I have said it before. If more of America knew how caucuses actually worked, they would be gone. Over. Finito.
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 2:32 PM
Euro, Larry did post something this morning it was at 7:43 but it was not a tape, it was an update about the tape. We might of thought he said he would post a tape but he said he would have an update by 9 Monday. So who knows?
Posted by: vadaryl
| June 2, 2008 2:33 PM
Hi Ally, I understand. By the way is "Ally" short for "Allegra"? I have a good friend in Olympia Washington named "Alegra" but she goes by "Ally". I bet Rez knows her.
I never cared much about caucuses... until this election where I was automatically disenfranchised because the DEMS did not count the primary voters and I wasn't about to hop in a car in Ghent Belgium to drive to my local caucus meeting. By the way, a gallon of gas in U.S. Dollars here in Belgium is now around $9
Posted by: EuroTom
| June 2, 2008 2:35 PM
FYI, Mr. Operative. If you have spent any time on this blog you will see that most Republican spindrool comes from Obama supporters.
They mimick the right-wing Hate speech megaphone incessantly with their blue dress references, Vince Foster murder conspiracies, Hillary's failed health plan etc.
I hope the Obama campaign is proud of themselves. They've followed the Republican campaign model perfectly. Too bad they will be running into the REAL Republican attack machine in November with their eyes tightly closed.
Mr. Thin-Skinned will go whining to the press which will turn on him so fast his head will spin spin spin.
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 2:35 PM
I've pretty much given up on the tape, by Thursday this primary season will be over and it will get quiet for awhile.
Posted by: vadaryl
| June 2, 2008 2:36 PM
Spin
I said "soft" not south. She speaks clearly but has a rather firm but slightly slurred speech pattern. In fact they both say "ta" when they mean "to" and it makes me a little crazy.
Transcripts have been produced of that speech she gave and in the absence of any alternate "damning" tape, that carries more weight than No Quarter rumor.
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 2:38 PM
Has the D party, with the help of the MSM, treated HRC like a whore? Well have they? I think so. They used her to satisfy their wishes and when they couldn't get anymore out of her they tossed her to the curb in favor of the enlighten one. Sorry for the bluntness but that is the way I see it, and that is how more and more female voters are seeing things. HRC should run as a Indy to return the screwing over she received at the hands of the D party.
Posted by: FryDaddy
| June 2, 2008 2:40 PM
I've pretty much given up on the tape, by Thursday this primary season will be over and it will get quiet for awhile.
Posted by: vadaryl | June 2, 2008 2:36 PM
Well it seems that Larry Johnson has blown his credibility out the window. Of course I didn't know anything about him til now, so maybe he never had any in the first place -- who knows? I may be wrong in this, but even if Michelle said "whitey", I would say it reflected on HER and not her husband. People tried to pin Bill's questionable extra-curricular activities on Hillary and that was pure B.S.
Now if Barack was there and said nothing or nodded in agreement that would be "a horse of a different color"...
Posted by: EuroTom
| June 2, 2008 2:40 PM
ET: Nope, not for Allegra but I adore that name.
I never cared much about caucuses either...until I moved to Iowa. And, let me tell you, everything Carl Levin said about the stranglehold Iowa has on the process is true and I think it needs to stop. I am really grateful for the opportunity I had last year to see so many of the candidates on so many occasions but I really feel that we need to give other states a chance AND we need to get rid of the caucuses. Iowans are really arrogant about the process, "IT'S TRADITION!" Well, there are a lot of things we used to do and that doesn't mean we keep doing them even if they're wrong.
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 2:41 PM
Vad: The tape is a myth. The Republican 527's will come up with some new definition of Obama during the GE that the media will be more than happy to reinforce and we will have another Al Gore and John Kerry.
Remember: Gore invented the internet. John Kerry is a coward that didn't deserve his purple heart.
I can only imagine what label Obama is going to get. Whatever it is ... it will work ... just like 2000 and 2004.
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 2:42 PM
GAKaren,
I sincerely feel sorry for you. It must be very upsetting. I have been on a campaign that was particularly painfull when we lost.
I hope the Obama campaign will gain a very loyal supporter in you. All of you. Loyalty like this is rare.
Posted by: Political Operative... | June 2, 2008 2:42 PM
Well I think if Mr. Obama offers the VP slot to Hillary, that would at least show a real act of reconciliation and building political unity. Hillary supporters are so fired up that I doubt that they will come rushing to the Obama side simply because he is the nominee. It's become too personal, too painful for them.
Posted by: EuroTom
| June 2, 2008 2:43 PM
"I did go 6 months sugar free"
My "yucky" thing was the smell of stale smoke. I walked out of the hypnotists office and could barely get in my car long enough to get it to a car wash. I didn't smoke for a year and then the Army sent my son to Desert Storm and I took up all night CNN and chain smoking.
Finally gave up cigarettes cold turkey about three years ago. Probably should go to a hypnotist because that urge for the first one with my coffee is still there.
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 2:43 PM
CRAIG --- A + for the video trailmix today. I have not had time to read the 422 post that proceed this ranking.
How about "The Great Gatsby"......
The plan has worked and the real contender is not going to be out of the race... Opps need to wait until the convention as some delegates could switch and put HRC back in.........
The rest is very scary - but this is indeed why BHO has no chance
Posted by: Ping Pong
| June 2, 2008 2:43 PM
"So it is that today, the Democratic Party is attempting to nominate a Black candidate, who does badly with most Whites, most Asians, and most Latinos. They will have a Muslim apostate candidate, who attended a racist and un-American church for 20 years. They will have a Leftist candidate, who is friends with an un-repentant domestic terrorist. They will have a Corrupt candidate, who has personally funded (through his directorship of the Woods Fund) a Muslim organization within the United States that rabidly supports the use of Suicide Bombing in Israel. They will have a young candidate, who is completely inexperienced for the job at hand and demonstrates it on a daily basis. The list goes on… Comically, as if these characteristics weren’t bad enough by themselves, they have somehow achieved bundling all of them into one politician. Do they still think that Obama can and/or should win in November?"
http://savagepolitics.com/
Posted by: GORDO | June 2, 2008 2:43 PM
Chloe; 12:40, I totally agree with GAKaren; 12:45
The Clintons have never been the media's favs. because of the WH years where first it was Whitewater, then it was Health Care, then it was Bill's pecadillos(Matt Drudge should die screaming)they don't trust, and have good reason not to trust the MSM - David Shuster saying that they were pimping Chelsea, that's how badly the media didn't want the Clinton's there, there would have been no stories for them, no access.
And the slick spade guaranteed them good copy for at least 4 years, doesn't matter what his background or his total lack of experience or knowledge was......
I also wish Hillary would walk away from this very sleazy, disgusting DNC. Unfortunately, I don't think it will happen. I do hope however that she doesn't spend any effort on his behalf, he hasn't earned it and he doesn't deserve it. The sleaze behind him slid him in there, now let them win it for him, they couldn't do it for themselves.
Mr. Crawford: Satire is good for the soul, and Stephen Colbert has made a few bucks at it too.....enjoyed it. How about the inauguration being shown in the context of the sheriff entering Rock Ridge in "Blazing Saddles".
Posted by: politicallypissed
| June 2, 2008 2:43 PM
Political Operative, I have to ask you this...
Are you one of the paid pro-Obama bloggers that are supposed to fan out over the blogs and make the Clinton people feel bettter?
Posted by: EuroTom
| June 2, 2008 2:43 PM
Mr. Operative: If you are who/what you say you are, I hope you realize that the media is going to turn on Obama as soon as he is coronated as the Democratic nominee.
Hope the campaign is ready and you have schooled your candidate to stop whining when bad things are said about him.
As for the arrogance, Obama better not pull a "You're likeable enough" comment with McCain. He will look like a young whipper-snapper picking on his elder. He better treat McCain with more respect than he did Hillary or it will be a very very long late summer/fall for the Obama campaign.
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 2:47 PM
Jamie I also went 6 months without coffee, that was in Seattle and I just decided I was drinking too much of it. One night during work, I took at break at a local Lesbian bar, they had awesome nachos, and they were brewing fresh coffee and I thought "oh what the hell? One cup sure isn't going to hurt me". That was 1987 and I haven't stopped since.
Posted by: EuroTom
| June 2, 2008 2:47 PM
Ally,
"Didn't you get the memo?"
I am always the last one to know. lol
Posted by: FryDaddy
| June 2, 2008 2:47 PM
EuroTom: Don't you want that job? I would love to be paid to post!
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 2:47 PM
Political Operative, I have to ask you this...
Are you one of the paid pro-Obama bloggers that are supposed to fan out over the blogs and make the Clinton people feel bettter
If he is the campaign should ask for its money back
Posted by: Brian de Clinton | June 2, 2008 2:49 PM
Sure, I'd sell my soul to post...
If the price was right...
Posted by: EuroTom
| June 2, 2008 2:49 PM
pp,
You represent well
Posted by: Rezdog
| June 2, 2008 2:49 PM
Eurotom,
No an unpaid. There are different jobs in a campaign. Some are paid and most are not. I have two missions. One is paid, the other is volunteered.
Posted by: Political Operative... | June 2, 2008 2:50 PM
Mr. Crawford: Satire is good for the soul, and Stephen Colbert has made a few bucks at it too.....enjoyed it. How about the inauguration being shown in the context of the sheriff entering Rock Ridge in "Blazing Saddles". - Politically Pissed
LOL! My thoughts exactly. I have been thinking about that scene since the primary began. Or how about the scene in "Trading Places" when the Duke brothers are talking about their hideous $1 bet and one of them says, "We'd never let a ______ run our company."
Man, that scene alone could be a Republican campaign ad.
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 2:51 PM
Oh Gordo
I'm not an Obama fan, but must you post every single piece of garbage you can find?
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 2:51 PM
What a decision to make...he does not want HRC on his ticket, but without her he opens the door for a McBush threepeat.
Don't think for a minute that voters won't vote McBush in...we're talking about an electorate that re-elected Bush after a horrible, criminal, deceptive first term. What make anyone think the US voters got any smarter? Throw out the approval ratings...a new face on the Bush policy letterhead is enough for the red staters to elect McBush to 4 and then 8 more years of lies and war.
2000 was bad enough but the Kerry defeat really jaded me.
Posted by: Dexter
| June 2, 2008 2:52 PM
Nick. There are links to a couple of sites up higher in the comments. Look for them, but I'll see if a fast search will turn it up.
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 2:52 PM
anybody pay 5 bucks a gallon yet?
Posted by: Dexter
| June 2, 2008 2:54 PM
For the comprehension impaired, I am observing not condoning.
So save your moral outrage. I live with big "R" white Republicans down here in Georgia. I know what I'm talking about.
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 2:54 PM
Nick
Here's one
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message556941/pg1
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 2:55 PM
Oh and Tom? There are a few Clinton people that have been here for a while. McCain of course. You already like them. How about me?
Well, since everyone is feeling that scratchy frisky feeling now, I'll depart.
Good luck tomorrow people.
Obama is a strong candidate!
Posted by: Political Operative... | June 2, 2008 2:55 PM
ET,
Have to ask you this question.
How could BHO ask HRC to be his VP, when he has been saying he represents change from the old way Washington did business, has identified the Clinton's as part of that problem, then ask her to be his VP?
Now I would love it as it would further demonstrate the hypocrite he truly is. As far as HRC goes I don't see her playing second fiddle to someone she is superior to in all aspects.
Posted by: FryDaddy
| June 2, 2008 2:56 PM
McCain is a Clinton person?
I've been here for several months... I don't remember how long really, but I've been staunch Hillary from the get go... as of now I am always in a different state of mind... plug my nose and vote for him... write in Hillary... abstain... vote nader.. and one I have abandoned, vote McCain just to piss of the Donna Braziles of the world.
I have been lifelong democrat, but now I am looking at each candidate regardless of party affiliation.
Posted by: EuroTom
| June 2, 2008 3:00 PM
It's (likely) over:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/02/clinton-summons-top-donor_n_104715.html
Huffington Post confirms that in tomorrow night's speech in NY she will likely suspend her campaign and endorse Obama.
Posted by: Politics of Utopia
| June 2, 2008 3:00 PM
good luck jamie...I had dreams and tobacco cravings for fifteen years after my last smoke, and I still crave a pipe full of Sir Walter Raleigh, but won't go there...yet. Even with 2-medication-asthma, I still want tobacco smoke!
Take my coffee away? You and what armed militia?
But...I would surrender my gasoline cards ASAP if you give me light rail.
Posted by: Dexter
| June 2, 2008 3:01 PM
Politically Pissed
"And the slick spade guaranteed them good copy for at least 4 years"
Is this necessary. Just because gutter remarks have been thrown at hillary, it doesn't mean we have to thrown it back.
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 3:02 PM
Which Dem Candidate had the paid Operatives? Possible this is the same group that worked for Edwards?
How Fun......
Posted by: Ping Pong
| June 2, 2008 3:02 PM
Political Operative are you WARREN by chance?
Posted by: EuroTom
| June 2, 2008 3:02 PM
Before I go...
Tom I can tell you this honestly. My part here is volunteer. There are no paid bloggers. I really enjoy this part of the campaign, so its easy to be free!
Goodbye now.
Posted by: Political Operative... | June 2, 2008 3:03 PM
Jamie ----------------------------------
I probably post less than 1%. Just give the "GO" signal if you want the real "dirt" on Obama. The Repub 527s are so happy.
Posted by: GORDO | June 2, 2008 3:03 PM
Dexter gas in belgium if now $9.47 a gallon in US dollars. You can understand that most of us in Europe are not so sympathetic with the rising oil prices in the states... :-) .. though I sort of am because I know my American sisters and brothers are probably over-extended in credit to the hilt and barely getting by paycheck to paycheck.
Posted by: EuroTom
| June 2, 2008 3:04 PM
Dex, Euro Tom,,, Not PO...
Take a look, and you will find McCain is very close to HIllary, in fact his problem with the Rep party is he is closer to Hillary then to the Radical Right wing.
So McCain is the centrist which will set stable direction, then you will have BHO that is change, change everywhere the change ---- Just look at his own stance with a few issues in the last months.
Get ready - BHO will start to sound like a moderate.
(Liberal Wolf in Moderate clothes)
Posted by: Ping Pong
| June 2, 2008 3:05 PM
ok so basically Obama's supporters are going out to swarm among the blogs to tell us how much they value us. That's ok I guess...
Posted by: EuroTom
| June 2, 2008 3:06 PM
Yesterday, I found a quote by Donna Brasille, It appears that a number of you have been emailing her and she is taking notice. In fact you may be putting the fear of God in her.
Nick you have the link to that graphic about the types of Obama supporters. She was at the "Oh my God we could lose this". She was saying we all just need to take a deep breath and relax.
I wish I could find the link but I can't.
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack
| June 2, 2008 3:07 PM
I can't vote for McCain... he is promising anti-choice, pro big business supreme court justices...
Posted by: EuroTom
| June 2, 2008 3:08 PM
Jamie,
Great on the cold turkey. Question, are your morning 'challenges' full-blown cravings or more like 'wow, those were the good old days'?
We're approaching the ten-year mark now on I'll have a short duration craving every couple of months. I'm able to intellectualize myself through them. (Knowing how long they'll last and that they are transitory is really helpful).
After three years and still getting daily urges strikes me as if the nicodemon is trying to get her foot in the door. Seeing the hypnotist makes sense to me.
Posted by: Flatus
| June 2, 2008 3:08 PM
Jack: She was trying to talk people off the ledge all day yesterday afternoon on CNN. Lots of talk about cooking and Sundays and love. Then Roland Martin came on and started doing the angry thing for a few minutes and that was entertaining but even he calmed down after a few minutes.
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 3:09 PM
nick
LOL @ you thinking "eat this, not that " is a porn site!!
Did you look at it? It's an excellent site, for people who don't want to diet, but rather learn to make healthier food choices, in many different categories....restaurants, grocery stores, frozen foods, fast foods, drinks, desserts, etc...
In the last few months, I have lost over 20lbs, by just making small changes in my food choices(like the pretzels with mustard instead of cheese).
Even if a person does not want to lose weight, it is always a good idea to eat healthier foods.
Check it out... 8~)
Posted by: LushIsLinda
| June 2, 2008 3:09 PM
Ping: In all seriousness, BO is a moderate. As we've discussed, his voting record and policies are very very close to Hillary's.
It is the right wing that is painting him as some psycho left-wing radical.
It is his friends/associates that are getting him into trouble.
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 3:10 PM
Gordo
The only "GO" I want to give you is AWAY
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 3:11 PM
LLinda: There is a book too. We have it, it is very interesting!
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 3:11 PM
yes Donna... tell us all to "take a deep breath and relax" as the DNC dumps on our candidate... I thought it was Donna who said she'd leave the Democratic Party if the Superdelegates went against the will of the voters... by their actions they invalidated many voters from the process... It almost reminds me of the founding era where blacks were 3/5ths of a person. Now primary voters in Michigan and Florida are 1/2 a person.. or 1/2 a vote.. It basically means that they are equal, but some areas are more equal than others.
Posted by: EuroTom
| June 2, 2008 3:11 PM
The "friendly" Obama operatives can pound salt and head for Hades. I'll give them directions.
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 3:12 PM
"Question, are your morning 'challenges' full-blown cravings or more like 'wow, those were the good old days'?"
It's more like the smell and taste of coffee is still so tied to the cigarette addiction that just having a cup produces this little wave of longing. I just muscle through it simply because that is the only coffee I allow myself and I really, really like it.
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 3:13 PM
My husband quit smoking about 10 years ago, also cold turkey. I have never, in my entire life, seen a bigger lunatic during those several weeks (and I dated an alcoholic for 5 years before I met my husband.) Cigarettes are sooooo dangerously addictive.
But, I thought we weren't supposed to talk about cigarettes on the blog because of Craig's recovering status? However, if we are breaking the rules, I didn't bring this up last week because of Craig but do you love how the media tried to get some traction with the Obama smoker story last week to no avail? Dumb story and, for once, they figured out they weren't getting anywhere with it. Or, maybe they were trying to make him sympathetic to the smokers and ex-smokers out there?Stuck on stupid no matter how you slice it.
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 3:13 PM
I know the lunatics... they come into my gas station all the time.. usually addicted to alcohol or cigarettes, or both at the same time. In Dutch we call these people "crapuul"... In English we'd refer to them as "trailer trash". In my mind they are a step below Jerry Springer guests. However, I make a lot of money off of them.. Whiskey, vodka, beer, jenever, wine, sherry, you name it, I sell it.
Posted by: EuroTom
| June 2, 2008 3:15 PM
Some of you are so funny talking Obama did this and he did that “to her”. He just upset Clinton’s apple cart, that’s all. She is the one who “was entitled” and “was inevitable” but then she wasn’t, so now she tries everything in the books (and not in the books) to still say she is the winner. The only way she is the winner by ANY means is to eliminate six states/territories’ popular vote. Chuck Todd is my numbers man. Besides, IMO, Eleanor Roosevelt was our first female president. She probably did more for the poor and down trodden than any female to occupy the WH and during a very difficult time. But, then maybe some of you don’t read much.
It would seem Billie “BJ” Jefferson Clinton is a winner. Been reading he has been having one time of it on those private planes throughout the campaign. He’s probably worn out. No wonder there won’t be another race for him.
Don’t ever doubt Senator Obama’s intelligence. It would seem he had more intelligence, strategy and financial backing by the little people than she during this campaign! But then it was she who said she had the non-educated in her camp.
Posted by: Karolenna | June 2, 2008 3:15 PM
Donna also said that she would give Hillary her delegate vote if that would make the Clinton supporters feel better about the 4 Hillary delegates going to Obama in Michigan. She is very generous.
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 3:15 PM
Jamie I used to go to 12 step meetings for the free coffee and just to use it as a "therapy" session when I was a poor student in Seattle... The people in "recovery" would SHAKE with a cup of coffee.. BAD coffee.. in one hand and a cigarette dangling out the other side. I finally had to stop going because the smoke was just too much.
There were interesting groups there:
Overeaters anonymous
Alcoholics anonymous
Narcotics Anonymous
Adult Children of Dysfunctional Families (which basically included everyone in Seattle except perhaps two families)
Spend-a-holics anonymous
Alanon...
a few others
Oh yeah, and my favourite:
SEXAHOLICS ANONYMOUS. I was just a lad in his mid-20s but I was so tempted to pass out cards that said "call me if you fall off the wagon" :-)
Posted by: EuroTom
| June 2, 2008 3:19 PM
ET,
As you know oil is trade around the world in US $$$. If the world thinks prices are high now, they better hope the oil kingdoms don't switch to selling oil in EUROS. It isn't for a lack of oil that the prices are higher, 60% of the price of oil is because of speculators, gas prices are also high because of a lack of storage and a lack of refineries. The use of a food grain, corn, to make ethanol is as close as one can comes for being considered a stay in the rubber-room. If you think gas is high talk to a independent trucker whose rig runs on diesel.
Posted by: FryDaddy
| June 2, 2008 3:19 PM
Karolenna, have you stop taking your meds today?
Posted by: EuroTom
| June 2, 2008 3:21 PM
Another Obamahater who is more interested in Bill Clinton's penis then their own candidate
Posted by: Oh look Karen Hughes is posting here | June 2, 2008 3:21 PM
Jamie----------------------
Why do you think Repubs have been so successful over the years in presidential campaigns? Think about it! You are so innocent and trusting.
Posted by: GORDO | June 2, 2008 3:22 PM
Jack: Considering Donna Brasille ran Gore's 2000 campaign we can all say she's never seen a loser Democratic nominee she didn't like. (Okay, I know Gore did WIN, but Donna is the reason he didn't seal the deal.)
I think the fact that she is now a political pundit making stupid comments on tv and not out there running campaigns says it all.
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 3:22 PM
yeah I agree Fry Daddy, and in fact, the ethanol situation has created a world food shortage, which is causing much of the world's poor even further into starvation. what a mess..
And re: Euros... we actually have been lucky to have oil sold in dollars because the EURO is so strong it has been able to cushion some of the price increases. But taxes in Europe are high, and on top of all the extra taxes there is 21% value-added tax.
Posted by: EuroTom
| June 2, 2008 3:23 PM
ET: Adult Children of Dysfunctional Families? Who isn't?
I just watched "As Good As It Gets" for about the upteenth time this weekend and my favorite scene is the one where Jack Nicholson tells the other two main characters why those of us who had shitty childhoods are really pissed:
Carol Connelly: OK, we all have these terrible stories to get over, and you-...
Melvin Udall: It's not true. Some have great stories, pretty stories that take place at lakes with boats and friends and noodle salad. Just no one in this car. But, a lot of people, that's their story. Good times, noodle salad. What makes it so hard is not that you had it bad, but that you're that pissed that so many others had it good.
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 3:24 PM
SEXAHOLICS ANONYMOUS. I was just a lad in his mid-20s but I was so tempted to pass out cards that said "call me if you fall off the wagon" :-) - ET
LOL! Good one.
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 3:24 PM
I was just thinking about how clueless the Democratic leadership is.
They have told their most loyal of voting blocs to cram it and are relying on all the new "young" voters that Obama has brought in.
Doesn't it even occur to them or keep them up at night worrying whether the "new" voters will be caught up and easily distracted by the newest iPhone or video game in November and .... ooops! Forget to vote? Like I would depend on them to stay interested in ANYTHING for that long.
As for the Republican/Independent crossovers ... just wait till the 527's get their new meme about Obama out there. They will run away screaming and either stay home or run out and vote for McBush.
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 3:29 PM
Ally,
"What makes it so hard is not that you had it bad, but that you're that pissed that so many others had it good."
LOL. There is some truth to that statement. lol
Posted by: FryDaddy
| June 2, 2008 3:30 PM
Nick
that was it, thanks
She was in "stark reality mode"
damn but that graphic is dead on.
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack
| June 2, 2008 3:30 PM
Jamie,
Should you see that cook running around here, tell her I said, Hi, and there is still time to switch. lol
Bye
Posted by: FryDaddy
| June 2, 2008 3:33 PM
Gordo
I'm well aware of Republicans, 527, dirty politicking etc. ad nauseum. What I object to is day in day out, multiple postings of exactly the same information, over and over, from the same sources of dubious provenance. It's just mind numbingly BORING
Of and has exactly the opposite effect of what you are trying to achieve. The only thing nagging does is drive someone as far away from you as possible
Are you a secret Obama supporter trying to drive us all frigging crazy until we agree to vote for him just to stop the constant drip drip drip Chinese Water Torture?
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 3:33 PM
"She is very generous"
Ally,
ya know text does a lousy job of conveying irony or sarcam.
all I can add is "you bet ya"
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack
| June 2, 2008 3:36 PM
"that you're that pissed that so many others had it good."
Spent a long time that way until I figured out that it is never too late to give yourself a happy childhood.
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 3:37 PM
"I think the fact that she is now a political pundit making stupid comments on tv and not out there running campaigns says it all"
GAK
good point, hard to argue with you today.
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack
| June 2, 2008 3:38 PM
FD
"That Cook" was running around here a day or so ago and then had to go make some phenominal food, Would you like the recipe for Lentil soup she left behind?
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 3:41 PM
Jack: Me? Sarcastic? Nah...
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 3:44 PM
Jamie: The best revenge is to give YOUR kids a happy childhood (of course, I'm sure they will spend countless hours informing me otherwise!)
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 3:45 PM
Hillary and her supporters have this week to get on the bus, or the bus is leaving, and they're not going to like where it's left them. If Hillary's top supporters and staff think it's better to take this lost battle to the convention
But if you do that, know that you're no better than Joe Lieberman. You're no better than Dick Morris. You're no better than any Republican who got us to where we are today - bankrupt, at war, hated worldwide, and with an economy in tatters. And just remember, Republicans don't get hired as consultants in the Democratic party"
http://www.americablog.com/2008/06/friends-of-clinton-who-advocate.html
Posted by: I think I'll walk | June 2, 2008 3:48 PM
Jamie: BTW, when I say YOUR, I mean a collective OUR...sorry if it was not clear!
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 3:53 PM
It looks like Big Brown will be racing despite all the work they are still doing on his hoof
http://www.comcast.net/articles/sports-general/20080602/Belmont-Big.Brown/
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 3:59 PM
Apparently Obama and Clinton are both going to be in NYC on Wednesday. This is a "developing" story from an MSNBC interview with Obama's foreign policy advisor; you can check for more info at the Drudge Report, which seems to be compiling all the news stories relating to Clinton's exit.
Posted by: Politics of Utopia
| June 2, 2008 3:59 PM
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/06/obamas-hollywood-ending.html#comment-94028
I believe that one would be tantrum mode.
Love the obama folks, they are so predictable
http://bp3.blogger.com/_t-EfdceTs60/SCiw6kJnbEI/AAAAAAAADis/xobZFZNitwE/s1600-h/ObomaManiacBehaviorGuide.jpg
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack
| June 2, 2008 4:03 PM
EuroTom....
I LOVE Gary Lewis and the Playboys..... I still have all their albums..... and I won't part with them.....
As I've mentioned before.... I believe my state of NH will go overwhelmingly for McCain come November..... so it won't matter how I vote.....
Congrats to all of you who mentioned getting off of cigarettes..... I never started that habit.... and am thankful every time I hear or read about how hard it is to quit......
Dex..... the gas up here just went over $4.00 a gallon....
Posted by: RebelliousRenee
| June 2, 2008 4:06 PM
yes, GAKaren...I have seen the "etnt " book 8~)...I should buy it.
wow, speaking of weight loss...there is a woman on Oprah who lost over 500lbs, when she started chatting in a "political chatroom"!!
Posted by: LushIsLinda
| June 2, 2008 4:06 PM
Nooooobama and screw the Democratic party. When I hear these idiots that are supposed to represent the Democratic party say that Hillary's women will jump in line when the time comes, it makes me sick to my stomach. Lets just wait and see. This lady is getting off the bus.
Just got off work, it's hot down here in Louisiana and I am cranky.
Carol
Posted by: ct | June 2, 2008 4:06 PM
Linda: This place can definitely ruin your appetite some days...
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 4:07 PM
PoU
How do you type with your fingers crossed
I can hear the "Hope, Hope, Hope,Hope< Gooooood I hope" vibrating from that post.Getting worried?
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack
| June 2, 2008 4:07 PM
awwwwwwwwww...she is saying the people she "met" in the chat room, nurtured her...made her feel good about herself again...
you know what "they" say...always be kind to people, as you never know what they are going through...
Posted by: LushIsLinda
| June 2, 2008 4:09 PM
"I'm sure they will spend countless hours "
I informed mine that my idea of successful parenting was raising children able to pay for their own psychiatrist to complain about me.
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 4:10 PM
"Yet that passion is teetering on the brink of morphing into a raging anti-Obama force.
To avoid clashes between the camps, the Obama campaign urged its supporters not to show up. They mostly obliged, but there were a few scuffles.
At a rally a few blocks from the DNC meeting, a New Republic reporter witnessed Clinton supporters fawning over Larry Sinclair, a Minnesotan peddling fliers titled, "Obama's Dirty Little Secrets: Murder, Drugs, Gay Sex." Sinclair has posted YouTube videos alleging he used cocaine with Obama and performed a sex act on him in 1999. One Hillary supporter advised Sinclair, "You could improve your credibility if you downplayed the gay sex and focused on the drugs.
If this is the best try at unity, Democrats are in trouble."
http://www.nypost.com/seven/06022008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/hillarys_crazy_crew_113510.htm?page=0
Posted by: GORDO | June 2, 2008 4:10 PM
Nooooobama and screw the Democratic party. When I hear these idiots that are supposed to represent the Democratic party say that Hillary's women will jump in line when the time comes, it makes me sick to my stomach. Lets just wait and see. This lady is getting off the bus.
Carol
I have to agree, Carol. This is not like elections past when we liked one guy, but the other guy got the nomination. They don't understand that every time HRC was dissed, called a B, called strident, etc. etc. by the so-called pundits and BHO supporters, we took it very personally -- we felt like those awful things were said about us. That's why this is different and why we are not all just going to fall in line this time.
Posted by: CatBalu | June 2, 2008 4:16 PM
Jack,
I am nervous. I don't trust HRC to do the right and honorable thing.
Posted by: Politics of Utopia
| June 2, 2008 4:17 PM
hey Gordo
You need to turn off the computer,go outside, and get a little sun
Go to a sidewalk cafe. Maybe sip on a beverage or two then watch the young things walk by. It is relaxing and entertaining. It is a lot more fun than being a pathetic anti Obama troll. Who knows maybe one of them will smile at you. You might get laid, how about that? Sounds like fun, so what do you say?
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack
| June 2, 2008 4:19 PM
I am nervous. I don't trust BHO to do the right and honorable thing.
Posted by: EuroTom
| June 2, 2008 4:21 PM
holy cow!!! 523 comments in 10 hours!!!! Craig, this has to be a record, or damned close to one.
Have to run off. Well, maybe tomorrow.
Posted by: pogo
| June 2, 2008 4:22 PM
Roger Stone was just on Hannity's radio show - was discussing the MO "whitey" video.
Posted by: GORDO | June 2, 2008 4:22 PM
hi Pogo, bye Pogo!
Posted by: EuroTom
| June 2, 2008 4:22 PM
Politics of Utopia and Eurotom, I bet both candidates have more faith and trust in each other.
Sounds like both factions here need to have more confidence in each others candidates...
Posted by: Political Operative... | June 2, 2008 4:24 PM
pffffft... I was just posting a tit for tat reply to "Politics of Utopia" dissing Hillary again.
Posted by: EuroTom
| June 2, 2008 4:25 PM
Oh yeah, i am still considering writing in Hillary... on my November ballot.
Posted by: EuroTom
| June 2, 2008 4:26 PM
I am nervous. I don't trust HRC to do the right and honorable thing.
You wouldn't know the right and honorable thing if you fell on it. But keep up this line of crap and guarantee there is no unity. No matter what crap you chose to believe - a lot of people voted and the results are split.
Why can't Obama close the deal?
Posted by: Not your bumpersticker | June 2, 2008 4:26 PM
To be honest, why should we have confidence in a candidate that has been treated by the MSM and starry-eyed fainting women as the second coming of Christ? My god, he is just a man... and people act as if he walks on water. Hell maybe I'll write in John Edwards... he was very sincere and didn't seem to be so arrogantly stuck on himself.
Posted by: EuroTom
| June 2, 2008 4:28 PM
I will be honest, one moment I think I can vote one way, one moment I can't even conceive of it...
Obama supporters seem to love to think of Hillary as a "dragon lady"... I've often said that Michelle Obama reminds me Leona Helmsley without her charm.
Posted by: EuroTom
| June 2, 2008 4:29 PM
PO
That Obama people have trust in Clinton is irrelevent.
That Clinton people have trust in Obama is the election.Obama needs Clinton. Clinton doesn't need Obama. So far the Obama campaign has behaved as if they didn't need the Clinton supporters. If Obama is going to New York to meet Clinton then that is a good start.
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack
| June 2, 2008 4:33 PM
final thought because as I have said, I don't hate Barack Obama, but I hate how one-sided this campaign has been and the shenanigans of idiots like Howard Dean and Donna "brilliant Al Gore Presidential Campaign Manager" Brazille, to work so hard behind the scenes to disenfranchise Hillary Clinton. Typically leadership thinks they can say "jump" and the everyday people say "how high"? In Florida I think they realized they had a much bigger problem on their hands than they thought possible.
I know unity is possible... but I think even if Hillary says "oh let's get behind Barack Obama's candidacy, many will just not vote for him. On Daily Kos, we are told that BHO doesn't need the Clinton voters. We are just old whites who are from the way politics "used to be done"...
BHO if you want real unity, make a public offer to HRC to be your running mate. That would convince me... sincerely and completely :-)
Posted by: EuroTom
| June 2, 2008 4:36 PM
Jack,
Both camps have said today that they will work together in November, and this afternoon Ickes said that Clinton will offer "significant" help to Obama. So yes, a good start at reconciliation.
Posted by: Politics of Utopia
| June 2, 2008 4:37 PM
I am about to go to bed....
Posted by: EuroTom
| June 2, 2008 4:37 PM
work together as in running mates is a winning proposition. Btw, what steps are being taken to stop giving some people's votes more weight in the nomination process? I believe in 1 Democratic party voter = 1 vote period... Not, oh well you are from a strong Democratic precinct, so your 1 vote weighs more than 1 from a Democratic party voter in a Republican precinct. This clearly favoured Mr. Obama's constituency.
Posted by: EuroTom
| June 2, 2008 4:40 PM
ET: You are much more optimistic than me. I don't believe unity is possible.
Or maybe I see it that way because I'm really really pissed right now. ; )
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 4:40 PM
PoU
In this campaign Clinton has always behaved honorably, it is one of the things that attracted me to her after my first choice dropped out.
I think it all depends on Obama. If he bullies then nothing happens.
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack
| June 2, 2008 4:40 PM
Linda: I wish participation on this blog helped me lose weight. Unfortunately, I eat when I am stressed! LOL
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 4:41 PM
Eurotom.
In truth, I've heard more "Real" people and not just blogger names, that are very complomentary of Hillary Clinton, not withstanding Senator Clinton. His voice has always been respectful infront of and behind the scenes. Senator Clinton knows this too.
You must remember that the Internet can be too impersonal and harrassing. It will be easier for the two candidates to put this behind them and work as a team. They both have been here before.
The Internet has played a much more intense role this year. Many unsuspecting people were caught in the middle of all the vitriol.
Even Mr Ickes was kind and very differant on this morning's call.
Time for some more paperwork!
Posted by: Political Operative... | June 2, 2008 4:41 PM
Clinton said weeks ago she would work "her heart out" for Obama.
Bush and Obama both said they are uniters.
Posted by: To tell the truth | June 2, 2008 4:42 PM
Jack,
I disagree on your first point, but I definitely want to see civility from now on - and that includes Obama fans.
Posted by: Politics of Utopia
| June 2, 2008 4:42 PM
GAKaren, the think that sucks about politics is that the winning campaign will go into this sort of soothing "poly-talk": "we are all on the same side, our candidate 'respects' your candidate"... "her issues are our issues..." and even "we can understand your disappointment but know you have a 'home' here"... I feel dirty just writing it... It is such political handling.
I think I'd have more respect if his campaign would tell the bitter Clinton supporters to "sod off" and leave the party. It would be more honest... especially if they still believe they can win this thing without Hillary's supporters.
Posted by: EuroTom
| June 2, 2008 4:45 PM
Senator Arrogant said some perfunctory nice things about Hillary Clinton today at a campaign stop in Michigan of all places. (My son was watching MSNBOC and had control of the remote, unfortunately.)
He doesn't mean a word of it. He's gloating but at least they told the people in the audience not to boo when he mentioned Senator Clinton. The Annointed One probably believes that this is his gracious display of unity and all Hillary supporters will come running to him and sit at his feet in adoration.
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 4:46 PM
Civility is good. It is missing so much in the modern world in which we life. That doesn't guarantee "unity"...
Posted by: EuroTom
| June 2, 2008 4:47 PM
Well Karen, maybe he can part the sea, feed hundreds with a few loaves of bread and quench their thirst with a simple bottle of wine. .
Posted by: EuroTom
| June 2, 2008 4:48 PM
I informed mine that my idea of successful parenting was raising children able to pay for their own psychiatrist to complain about me.
Posted by: Jamie | June 2, 2008 4:10 PM
I am going to use that line. Every time I lose my temper and do a bit hollering, I feel the compulsion to put a nickel in the jar for their inevitable therapy costs.
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 4:48 PM
ET: My comments about Senator Arrogant came before I saw your post.
I won't buy a word of that "we are the world" clap trap. I agree with you, just tell us to "sod off!" That is what the Obama camp has been saying all along so why change now?
IMO they truly believe they don't need Hillary's supporters but they will give it lip service.
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 4:50 PM
Euro,
Good distinction. Unity? I'm not sure there will be complete unity in the party this go around (is there ever?), but I don't think that will be the candidates' fault. I firmly believe they will sincerely work to get their supporters to come together. However, I think the faction that chooses to defect (McCain vote; no vote; protest; write-in) will in the end be quite minimal. A lot will change in 4-5 months.
Posted by: Politics of Utopia
| June 2, 2008 4:51 PM
I informed mine that my idea of successful parenting was raising children able to pay for their own psychiatrist to complain about me.
Posted by: Jamie | June 2, 2008 4:10 PM
Jamie, I forgot to tell you that this is the post of the day.
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 4:52 PM
"Clinton will offer "significant" help to Obama"
How about Obama offering a "significant" position to Clinton.
Repeat after me... He needs us. We don't need him.
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 4:53 PM
Hollywood ending?
Hope it doesn't turn out to be Face in A Crowd
Posted by: Brian de Clinton | June 2, 2008 4:53 PM
Well Karen, maybe he can part the sea, feed hundreds with a few loaves of bread and quench their thirst with a simple bottle of wine. .
Posted by: EuroTom | June 2, 2008 4:48 PM
Of course he can, Tom! He's Barack Obama.
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 4:53 PM
How come the media always mentions Bill Clintons lfeft hand "jabbing" finger, and never remarks about Barack Obama's right handed one?
Neither man can talk without the motion.
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 4:56 PM
The JayZ song, "99 Problems" is an ear worm -- I keep thinking of the new words, as applied to Barack Obama -- "If you're having girl problems I feel bad for you, son, you got 17 million problems but the bitch ain't one."
Posted by: Alicia Knight
| June 2, 2008 4:57 PM
But Jamie, it's been widely reported that will likely receive a top cabinet position related to health care. He will definitely help her out.
I don't understand the "we don't need him" argument, unless you're a conservative. In other words: you don't need to protect the supreme court; work towards universal healthcare crisis; reform the labor department; overturn Bush's anti-civil liberties 9/11 laws; get out of Iraq; improve US standing in the world.
It's bigger than your personal gripes, it really is.
Posted by: Politics of Utopia
| June 2, 2008 4:57 PM
Everytime one of these Obama people comes on and talks about unity. I keep expecting their noses to burst through the screen with a birds nest on the tip.
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 5:00 PM
Everytime one of these Obama people comes on and talks about unity. I keep expecting their noses to burst through the screen with a birds nest on the tip.
Posted by: Jamie | June 2, 2008 5:00 PM
It's only going to get worse. But I suppose it is better than the incessant blue dress references and talk of the "Clenis."
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 5:03 PM
Jamie,
It's all ad hominem with you, isn't it? You can't accept that your candidate lost. Now, there's a lot I could say about HRC, but the time is over. The important point is to move forward. And if you're one of those Clintonites who says "vote McCain," then we don't need you. Anyone willing to sacrifice change in this country - not in terms of Obama's rhetoric, but real democrat reform - for their own egotism isn't just a sore loser, they're a danger to the party.
Posted by: Politics of Utopia
| June 2, 2008 5:04 PM
I think I'd have more respect if his campaign would tell the bitter Clinton supporters to "sod off" and leave the party. It would be more honest... especially if they still believe they can win this thing without Hillary's supporters.
Posted by: EuroTom | June 2, 2008 4:45 PM
LOL no offense, but why would I want to? I am here for the purpose of passing on information and to encourage you to not write us off yet.
hopefully I will satisfy you of my honesty someday.
Posted by: Political Operative... | June 2, 2008 5:04 PM
"Clinton will offer "significant" help to Obama"
How about Obama offering a "significant" position to Clinton.
Repeat after me... He needs us. We don't need him.
Posted by: Jamie | June 2, 2008 4:53 PM
I'm hearing significant help in the 20 million.
Posted by: Political Operative... | June 2, 2008 5:07 PM
PU: It is not a question of whether our candidate lost. It is the height of hypocrisy for Obama supporters to come on here offering olive branches in one hand while they are removing the knives from our backs with the other.
That stuff hurts and it isn't going to go away any time soon. You said you don't want us and you don't need us. What has changed? Have you suddenly realized that your coalition of the "willing" isn't as strong as you once imagined? We know what you think of Clinton and her supporters. You have made it abundantly clear. So don't come around with this "unity" bs and think it is all going to magically go away and the sun will come shining through because Obama has spread his arms to welcome all the "Clinton" sinners and give us salvation.
Puhleeeeezzzze!
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 5:11 PM
PO
I just don't think you all are getting it. this is not about Clinton, It is about her supporters and enough of them are pissed at this moment to lose the election. Denial of their legitimate anger by the Obama camp is not helping. Tossing money at Clinton doesn't address the issue.
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack
| June 2, 2008 5:13 PM
Matthews, the pundits, and the experts seems to be forgetting a few major things.
Even if Clinton stops, endorses Sen. Obama, encourages her followers to vote for him etc. there are a few things to note:
Almost 18 million votes
Within 200 delegates despite him getting an advantage because of weighted districts.
A caucus system his operatives gamed (and her campaign messed up) But now the American people know about it.
If in November only 10% of the voters (That's almost 2 million ), particularly that hard core group of women still feel insulted by all the chauvenism and filth that went on and decide to do nothing, Sen. Obama has a major problem.
He better learn to fake sincerity fast.
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 5:14 PM
GAK,
Do I dislike center-right, Reagan democrats? Yes. Do I wish the party could move further to the left so as to not have to hang on to their conservative constituency? Yes. But, I don't think we can be choosers here. The great goal is too important.
Look, if the situation were reversed, I wouldn't necessarily be happy about it, but I'd support HRC.
Posted by: Politics of Utopia
| June 2, 2008 5:16 PM
P o U
No I am not a McCain voter. At this stage I am a do nothing or third party voter. Would you care to point out an ad hominem? I didn't call anyone any names. I said how I reacted to their presentation. I just get a little miffed at the "the little ladies will change their minds once some time passes".... He's not some husband taking a walk around the block until wifey gets over her mad ... or if he is, he had better come back with flowers.
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 5:18 PM
Jamie,
I find it so hilarious that so-called feminists - and that they are certainly not - are willing to sacrifice the supreme court for their own petty issues.
Posted by: Politics of Utopia
| June 2, 2008 5:18 PM
Hey Rube
Duck, it is good cop ,bad cop time
they out to get you sucka
Posted by: LOL | June 2, 2008 5:21 PM
PO
I just don't think you all are getting it. this is not about Clinton, It is about her supporters and enough of them are pissed at this moment to lose the election. Denial of their legitimate anger by the Obama camp is not helping. Tossing money at Clinton doesn't address the issue.
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack | June 2, 2008 5:13 PM
Jack,
very pleased to me you! I really do understand. I'm not hear to sing Kumbiaya.
I would never assume that I have all the answers or that I understand the pain here just by having been in this same palce in other campaigns.
I promise all of you to occasionally offer answers and references so that you can find the answers if you want it.
Posted by: Political Operative... | June 2, 2008 5:21 PM
South Dakota Democratic Primary ARG
Obama 34 , Clinton 60 Clinton +26
Montana Democratic Primary ARG*
Obama 48, Clinton 44 Obama +4.0
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/latestpolls/index.html
Posted by: tictac
| June 2, 2008 5:23 PM
What Obama followers don't get it! You and your savior declared war on us and now you want to make nice.
You know where you can stick your nice!
Posted by: Spirit of Patsi | June 2, 2008 5:26 PM
If the Supreme Court is in jeopardy the blame will lie with Obama not Clinton supporters. It was Obama who bragged Clinton voters would support him but his supporters would not support her
STFU Obama said his supporters would put he court in jeopardy.
Posted by: The Bitch's not coming back | June 2, 2008 5:26 PM
Do I dislike center-right, Reagan democrats? Yes. Do I wish the party could move further to the left so as to not have to hang on to their conservative constituency? Yes. But, I don't think we can be choosers here. The great goal is too important.
Posted by: Politics of Utopia | June 2, 2008 5:16 PM
Perhaps you and your candidate should have thought about that before you pissed all over the Clinton's and their supporters. Before you trashed the Clinton presidency. Before your candidate in his arrogance said he could get the support of Hillary's constituency but she couldn't get his.
I suspect you'd be singing a slightly different tune if HRC had won the nomination and the shoe was on the other foot. I can only imagine the spindrool Obama supporters would be churning out if they were suddenly told to come vote for Hillary. I'd pay good money to see the "unity" from Obama supporters in that scenario.
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 5:29 PM
to occasionally offer answers and references so that you can find the answers if you want it.
How nice of you to offer to help educated us dummies
Should we kneel down and bow before you since you seem to think you have the corner on the truth
Posted by: Brian de Clinton | June 2, 2008 5:29 PM
Wow now! You are definitely not a dummy. far from it. I admire your passion too.
Posted by: Political Operative... | June 2, 2008 5:35 PM
Wow ... that isn't TOO demeaning.
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 5:38 PM
LOL
Definitely "stark reality mode"
You have to admit it is a pleasant change.
May be tomorrow they will come with chocolates and flowers. I like Andres chocolates. I love to be courted. I can be had, but I'm not cheap.
Time to youtube for the night.
Later
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack
| June 2, 2008 5:39 PM
PU is in Threat Mode: "If McCain wins say goodbye to Roe v. Wade!"
http://bp3.blogger.com/_t-EfdceTs60/SCiw6kJnbEI/AAAAAAAADis/xobZFZNitwE/s1600-h/ObomaManiacBehaviorGuide.jpg
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 5:39 PM
Hi Clintonistas,
Are you all getting ready to line up behind Obama like good Stepford gals?
I hope not.
I'm stealing myself for the onslaught of Obama supporters and media pundits who will start the drumbeat to try to shame us into sticking with the Democratic party by using fear tactics and guilt.
The name calling has already begun:
"We don't need you."
"You're egotistic, sore losers."
"You're traitors to your county."
For me, the reasons I will not vote for Obama are far beyond the fact that Hillary Clinton is losing the primary.
Posted by: prof marcia
| June 2, 2008 5:40 PM
OK, I just thought of something kinda funny:
PU Loves BO
No offense intended...it just cracked me up!
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 5:41 PM
These lemmings don't get it! In their world all they need is the word of "their leader" to tell them what to do, how to think and act, blow his nose and everyone cheer. I hope Hillary doesn't think that I will follow her lead if she actively supports "The South Chicago Messiah" Ain't gonna happen!
My memory works just fine-no intention of forgetting.
Posted by: Spirit of Patsi | June 2, 2008 5:45 PM
But Jamie, it's been widely reported that will likely receive a top cabinet position related to health care. He will definitely help her out.
Posted by: Politics of Utopia:
So glad he will "help her out" after she won more votes than him -- what a guy. Do you know how condescending that sounds?
and
You can't accept that your candidate lost.
Posted by: Politics of Utopia:
That isn't it. We can accept if she loses -- we can't accept the way she loses and the vitriolic blogs and namecalling from his supporters.
Posted by: CatBalu | June 2, 2008 5:46 PM
As a Chicagoan please don't diss Chicago. The Annointed One is a transplant to the windy city.
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 5:47 PM
LOL
a slap of reality You people are great. I loved the response.
I was drifting had this song in my mind
' Space Oddity ' DAVID BOWIE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnLv1kh_cuc
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack
| June 2, 2008 5:51 PM
Obama and his supporters suffer from premature election.
Posted by: Quickies R US | June 2, 2008 5:51 PM
it's mutual , BO....loves PU too.
: )
Posted by: unlikely_burrito
| June 2, 2008 5:52 PM
GAK
Are you trying to tell us he wouldn't make a pimple on the butt of real Chicago?
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack
| June 2, 2008 5:53 PM
My memory works just fine-no intention of forgetting.
Posted by: Spirit of Patsi
Mine too. Sure you're not the real Patsi?
Posted by: tictac
| June 2, 2008 5:55 PM
I Wanna Grow Up To Be A Politician ~ The Byrds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Zfi3zc5-t8
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack
| June 2, 2008 5:56 PM
Doing good things for Sen. Clinton would be a nice beginning, but we have had multi months of watching her being savaged and they can't quite get it that "She is Us".
Every misogynistic, lurid, threat, lie and half truth was heard loud and clear by US. It may have been his minions and activists, but they were representing him and he is the one who needs to fix the damage done.
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 5:56 PM
EuroTom; 4:29pm....
Loved the Leona Helmsley comparison, I totally agree.
For all you O-bot supporters out there who are now making nice... too little - too late. I will not be falling in line and hope this particular bunch of sleazy DNC mutts go up in flames.
Also I reserve the right to say I told you so ..... he's Howdy Doody.
Posted by: politicallypissed
| June 2, 2008 6:01 PM
Jamie,
I do not think that their message will authentically change because that is actually what they really believe. They may try to "make-up" but that's only because they want something, one thing.....our vote.
After they get, you'll never hear from them again.
We have seen this storyline repeated since time began.
Posted by: unlikely_burrito
| June 2, 2008 6:01 PM
When the spirit moves you, one must act.
Posted by: Spirit of Patsi | June 2, 2008 6:02 PM
Jack: LOL. Actually, I think Obama is a large pimple on the butt. Chicago is the city of big shoulders that welcomes every one and Obama has done quite well for himself there.
I just don't like people dissing Chicago or its politics. Chicago gets a lot of bad press but their political shenanigans are not much different from other cities and other political machines. I think Richard J. Daley was such a larger than life figure and the 1960 election put Chicago on the map while highlighting some of the more interesting aspects of Chicago politics. (Not to mention the '68 Dem convention.)
That being said, I am convinced that my long dead relatives vote in every election there and will vote for the Democratic nominee this November as well.
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 6:04 PM
My mom, my aunt, my wife, and my grandmothers are all white, over 40 (except for my wife), all Democrats, and all support Obama. The supposedly disenfranchised Clinton supporters who are threatening to sabotage the GE and the entire Democratic party by causing a mass exodus of adult white women overestimate their leverage, from my perspective. I understand that friends and family are hardly a representative sample, but it's part of my frame of reference.
We all live in Pennsylvania, by the way, and my step-father voted for Clinton, because his union told him to.
Posted by: champ | June 2, 2008 6:04 PM
Brit Hume's showing a clip from an Obama rally telling the crowd that he and Hillary will BOTH be campaigning hard until November. All of a sudden he's getting complimentary of her.
Posted by: tictac
| June 2, 2008 6:05 PM
Prof M
I so totally agree!!! Maybe some will change but i will not be voting President In Florida this time.I have seen to much on the net That Sen.Obama has said and done to Hillary and her supporters!! There policy differences may not be much but I don't trust OBAMA.But the real test for him is will he do the work to try and get the Lunch Bucket Democrats Vote? Go to Flint,Michigan where Im from and talk to the autoworker and Talk to women with respect and honor or will it be just more of the same wait a second sweetie?We will see
Posted by: tonyb39
| June 2, 2008 6:06 PM
Jamie,
I do not think that their message will authentically change because that is actually what they really believe. They may try to "make-up" but that's only because they want something, one thing.....our vote.
After they get, you'll never hear from them again.
We have seen this storyline repeated since time began.
Posted by: unlikely_burrito | June 2, 2008 6:01 PM
"sniff sniff" "He never calls ... he never writes."
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 6:06 PM
Champ: Here's Hoping!
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 6:07 PM
The supposedly disenfranchised Clinton supporters who are threatening to sabotage the GE and the entire Democratic party by causing a mass exodus of adult white women overestimate their leverage, from my perspective. Posted by: champ | June 2, 2008 6:04 PM
Well champ, then you and Obama have nothing to worry about.
Posted by: tictac
| June 2, 2008 6:07 PM
"sniff sniff" "He never calls ... he never writes."
Posted by: GAKaren | June 2, 2008 6:06 PM
Karen: Maybe he's just not that in to you?
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 6:08 PM
Maybe they will announce a joint ticket tomorrow night?
Posted by: unlikely_burrito
| June 2, 2008 6:09 PM
I asked this in the last thread, just a while ago. Will Clinton supporters tell me how they'd win without the OBama camp? I keep reading things like he needs her and her supporters more than they need him... DITTO. Pretending otherwise is to deny political reality.
If HuffPo is right, she's asking for help for politicians who backed her and are facing challenges from Pro-Obama pols.. He should NOT help those pols. They made their choices.
He should help her get out of that enormous debt she's been dragging for months.
Posted by: Denni
| June 2, 2008 6:09 PM
I" have seen to much on the net That Sen.Obama has said and done to Hillary and her supporters!! There policy differences may not be much but I don't trust OBAMA."
True. I could have said that.
Posted by: tictac
| June 2, 2008 6:11 PM
There have been so many great posts today.
The reasons MSNBCs fakey Mika is irritating section was wonderful. She's like the prissy girl in high school who sneers at people behind their backs.
LushisLinda is probably gone, but I wanted to let her know that I'm
someone who went to see "Sex In the City" this weekend. I loved it even
though it's a guilty pleasure watching gorgeous divas with closets full
of Manolo Blahnik stilettos, sipping margaritas at beach resorts in Mexico.
I like the girl friend bonding theme of the stories.
GAKaren: You capture my feelings exactly in your posts today,
especially, "Perhaps you and your candidate should have thought
about that before you pissed all over the Clintons and their supporters, before you trashed the Clinton presidency." This is so very true.
How could I ever vote for Obama after witnessing this campaign?
Posted by: prof marcia
| June 2, 2008 6:11 PM
Sorry Champ, no offense I chuckle every time I see your moniker since my dear sheltie shares the same name with you.
For what its worth in my family the women are all Clinton supporters that are quite pissed right now. As someone else said there is plenty of time between now and the election.
I think we are probably both right in that the Democratic leadership and Obama's campaign don't think the rift will hurt their chances in November but there are probably a few more disgruntled Clinton supporters out there then every one thinks.
It certainly will be interesting to see how things play out.
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 6:12 PM
Post as Patsi Day!
Posting More Is the Best Revenge!
Patsi please come back but I hope your spirit stays on too :)
Posted by: Fans of Patsi | June 2, 2008 6:13 PM
Denni
No one will ever say your on the Unity Bandwagon.Just Fine by me
Posted by: tonyb39
| June 2, 2008 6:14 PM
"After they get, you'll never hear from them again."
Funny.
I keep wondering if those four delegates were worth it? It was really the last straw for me. The rubbing of the nose in it so you are absolutely sure there has been a transfer of power. Well the Clintons power may have been transfered to the Obamas, but not necessarily her voters.
There is a point people get to that is beyond anger. It is cold hard adamant. The suitcases are on the porch and the locks have been changed. That's what those four delegates got him.
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 6:16 PM
GAK
I'm reminded of several years ago.It was my sisters wedding and we were all gathered in her apartment watching TV We were having flooding problems and at the same time so was Chicago. The local news here lead with the flooding and the impact it would have on people flooded out. We turned over to the Chicago cable station. They lead with the flooding and the effect it would have on local politics. My BIL gave me a puzzeled look and I just laughed. I told him "Thats Chicago, they take their politics seriously." In some ways it is a whole different world.
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack
| June 2, 2008 6:17 PM
Larry Johnson has a 5:12 update on noquarterusa.net
Posted by: ubns
| June 2, 2008 6:20 PM
Larry Johnson 5:12 update on noquarterusa.net
Posted by: ubns
| June 2, 2008 6:22 PM
I told him "Thats Chicago, they take their politics seriously." In some ways it is a whole different world.
Jack
Michael Bilandic says you are spot on
Posted by: Jane Bryne luvs the snow | June 2, 2008 6:24 PM
Jack: LOL. Considering Jane Byrne won a mayoral election because of a snow storm I guess that chapter of Chicago politics could make a segment on the Weather Channel's "When Weather Changed History." I think every Chicago politician since Byrne keeps their eye on the skies just in case.
Actually the flood in Chicago was wild ... it was man made because there are a series of tunnels that run under the city that were flooded by a construction crew that hit a pylon in the river. I remember they shut the city down ... it was unheard of. My husband had to leave work because they closed all the buildings.
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 6:25 PM
LOL - the Byrne comment was hillarious, guess I didn't get my post on here fast enough.
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 6:26 PM
You know, those Montana South Dakota numbers were a real surprise for most people. Obama was up 12 points there at the beginning of April, so for her to be up 26 pts. is more than amazing. Something really is happening here. Something big.
In Montana, he was up 17 and now it's just 4. If she pulls an upset there, it'll be another surprise.
Not sure how all these last contest can be completely ignored.
Posted by: tictac
| June 2, 2008 6:27 PM
Karen,
The people who post on blogs like this and on similar forums on the net are every passionate, relatively informed (compared to most of the populace), active and sometimes invested in these campaigns. Such people are also in the minority.
I don't think it's fair to blame Obama for the rude people who post on forums and just happen to support him. I doubt they are representative of his share of the electorate, although they are certainly more vocal- in much the same way I believe Clintons most vocal internet supporters are not. The anonymity the internet affords allows trolls with nothing better to do to log on and get a rise out of others. They do it for that sake alone, and not out of any real support for their candidate.
Take all the most popular American political 'blogging' sites, and try to estimate how many people are actively commenting on these stories everyday. My estimate would be under 100,000. Take this blog, for instance. There are about 600 comments a day, but those are generated by about 20 people. Jeez, I must have made 30 posts myself last night, much to the chagrin of the other participants here. Sorry, folks.
1 other thing: Don't people realize politics is a bloodsport? How can people begrudge Obama for running an effective and successful campaign? He (or his stewards) beat the Clintons at their own game, a game for which they had been preparing for years. Use of the media to your advantage is the reality of modern American politics. The Clintons used very similar tactics and were only a little less successful themselves. They got beat. It happens. That's politics. I think the Clintons understand that better than their vocal supporters.
Posted by: champ | June 2, 2008 6:28 PM
Prof Marcia: Thank you for your kind words.
Who knows what will happen between now and November but as Bette Davis' character said in "All About Eve" ... "fasten your seat belts it's going to be a bumpy ride."
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 6:28 PM
Clinton Spokesperson: She Is Not Conceding
June 02, 2008 4:02 PM
"He was asked about Clinton's definition of when a nominee would be determined -– because she has refused to accept the new 2,118 delegates number that the Democratic Party says is needed to clinch the nomination.
"I think its pretty clear that she is not conceding." Elleithee said, "I think its pretty clear that she is staying in this race. She is going, in the coming days, to be aggressively courting uncommitted superdelegates aggressively courting unpledged delegates, making the case to them that she is a candidate best ready to take on John McCain."
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/06/clinton-spokesp.html
Posted by: GORDO | June 2, 2008 6:30 PM
Jamie
There you go again its like your chaneling the thoughts from my head!!! I keep saying to myself 4 delegates stealing 4 was it worth it.Oh but you make us feel it and Understand!!!
Posted by: tonyb39
| June 2, 2008 6:32 PM
Champ: You have presented a very rational post, however, as many of us old white women can tell you, it has never been quite this bad during a primary in my memory. (Okay it's only been 20+ years for me.)
As I mentioned earlier my husband and I cannot even talk about this election any more. That's a real rarity in our house.
I know that isn't scientific or earth shattering but I suspect there will be studies of this primary election for years to come. I also think our gracious host Craig could write a very interesting book about it as well.
One of the big negatives is that the Republicans are having a field day with this.
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 6:34 PM
For those of us who are going to quit the Democratic party, I think the day after "Obama's Hollywood Exit" would be a good time. It would send the message to the DNC, and the Media that we are serious.
Posted by: jean | June 2, 2008 6:34 PM
Obama hasn't won anything -- not yet.
Superdelegates can change their minds so nothing is set in stone -- not yet.
I hope Hillary does not support him. But even if she does, why is it assumed that everyone will just follow her lead? If she should endorse or support Obama, I still would not vote for him.
Posted by: lizbeth
| June 2, 2008 6:37 PM
The Band - The Weight
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfyjhtOTy1s
Posted by: whskyjack
| June 2, 2008 6:37 PM
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/polltracker/2008/05/swing-state-polls-have-bad-new.html
http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=425
Must be a lot of blog readers out there.
Posted by: Exit Laughing | June 2, 2008 6:38 PM
I just think it would be a shame if people voted for McCain out of spite rather than conviction. There is a REAL war going on, with REAL people dying everyday, kids mostly. REAL lives are being shattered, people are getting maimed, blown up, threatened, uprooted, military families are being destroyed by either death or long absences... I could go on.
To protest vote for McCain, an aggressive war-monger who espouses the status quo, is to literally make a choice to endanger more American, Iraqi, and Afghani lives for a poorly conceived and disastrous military action. Out of spite? That is just plain irrational.
Posted by: champ | June 2, 2008 6:44 PM
Exit laughing,
Those swing state numbers are striking.
Her numbers keep getting higher everywhere.
Posted by: tictac
| June 2, 2008 6:46 PM
Out of spite? That is just plain irrational.
Posted by: champ
It makes a lot more sense when you put it that way.
Before you said that Obama didn't need us anyway.
Posted by: tictac
| June 2, 2008 6:49 PM
Where are you Jack?
1. Denial: "But Senator Clinton hasn't conceded yet! She doesn't admit that she's lost! She keeps moving the goal posts, continues playing the race card, it therefore must not really be over for her. We need her permission to move on!"
2. Anger: "If the rest of you don't lash out at what's upsetting me in exactly the way I am, you're as bad as she is!"
3. Bargaining: "This means that Obama has to put Clinton on the ticket (like Andrew Sullivan says, 'hello again to all that!'). Oh, wait, scratch that: he has to put a Clinton supporter on the ticket. Or maybe he has to put a different woman on the ticket... or how about..."
4. Depression: "Where'd everybody go? God, I miss the adrenaline of when this was a real contest!"
5. Acceptance: "Oh, goodie: More adrenaline to come! A general election campaign! Of course Obama will choose his running mate according to his standards. I bet it'll be as smart a move as those that got him here!"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/al-giordano/five-stages-of-grief-for_b_101022.html
Posted by: Rezdog
| June 2, 2008 6:49 PM
BriBri,
They All Asked For You - Audubon Zoo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pioHaHSGL1o
Posted by: Patsi's Radiers | June 2, 2008 6:56 PM
Does that mean that now we're back to "We don't need you anyway".
Posted by: tictac
| June 2, 2008 6:56 PM
GAKaren,
That would be animal husbandry.
Posted by: 9/11 survivor (sort of)
| June 2, 2008 6:57 PM
If you had a husband, would that work for you?
Posted by: GAKaren
LOL
Posted by: tictac
| June 2, 2008 6:58 PM
I don't know what Obama needs, tictac. I'm just some moron with a computer and an internet connection.
I didn't mean for my earlier comment to come across that way, however. I was just contrasting all the fire and brimstone on these blogs with what I've actually heard from the women in my life.
Posted by: champ | June 2, 2008 6:59 PM
MICHELLE OBAMA HIT NEXT?
"The Presidential contest between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama is likely to be roiled in coming days by revelations that Michelle Obama made racist comments in a speech for which there is allegedly an indelible record. This is why Hillary Clinton is still in the race and why her people have been in a race with Republican Opposition Researchers to get their hands on the offensive recording.
Mark Penn, who "resigned" as the Clinton Campaign strategist but is still the Clinton campaign strategist told intimates the bombshell "could come this week"
http://stonezone.com/
Posted by: GORDO | June 2, 2008 7:00 PM
Champ
You still are not getting the message. It isn't the loss. In this place over and over, the Clinton supporters have repeatedly acknowledged that her campaign was poorly run in the beginning and by the time they figured out the problem it was too late for catch up.
The problem is an inexperienced candidate run by a dirty trickster who labeled the Clintons racists to an adoring mob, backed up by a cooperative media and a trash talking punditry. It was the constant day in day out insults airmed at women in general and Sen. Clinton in particular.
He is a much better candidate now thanks to that long fight, but he still isn't ready for prime time and the premature gloating by his official minions doesn't make him look better particularly now that the vetting he should have had at the beginning is just now starting to take place.
Top that off with the DNC power play this past weekend and it comes down to they don't respect us why should we trust or respect them?
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 7:04 PM
You all probably already heard, but Obama was just on Camera saying that he called Hillary and told her he looks forward to getting with her for a meeting with her, after the Tuesday election.
Posted by: tictac
| June 2, 2008 7:04 PM
Rez
I believe that most of the Clinton commenters are on the real "acceptance level".
"He won, now let's set back and see if he can pull a miracle out of his ass."
They no longer have a commitment to maintain . The ball is in your mans court. Getting their vote is all his problem.
LOL Now what the fk does he do.
I'm just gonna set back like I have all election so far. point out the crap and laugh at the spin.
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack
| June 2, 2008 7:06 PM
GAKaren,
First he'd have to be sanitized.
Posted by: 9/11 survivor (sort of)
| June 2, 2008 7:06 PM
Well, you're the local expert on needles, Bri-Bri.
Posted by: 9/11 survivor (sort of)
| June 2, 2008 7:10 PM
You shouldn't respect or trust them. They are politicians. They make their living by telling other people how to live and producing nothing of real value. Now you are getting the idea. That notwithstanding, It's still irresponsible to vote for the war-mongering McCain out of spite, in my opinion.
If between Obama and Clinton, you believe CLinton is the better candidate and vote for her, I respect that. If between Obama and McCain, you believe McCain is the better candidate and vote for him, I respect that too. If however, you don't believe McCain is the better candidate and vote for him anyway, that's just disingenuous, and I don't respect that. Not that you care what it is that I respect, but you get the idea...
Posted by: champ | June 2, 2008 7:10 PM
jack,
I was just trying to join in on all the behavior chartr/cycle fun :)
Posted by: Rezdog
| June 2, 2008 7:11 PM
9/11: LOL.
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 7:13 PM
I think McCain is far and away the better candidate over Obama.
Posted by: lizbeth
| June 2, 2008 7:13 PM
http://wonkette.com/400121/mythological-whitey-tape-will-finally-ruin-obama
Posted by: Is this it? | June 2, 2008 7:15 PM
Hillary defiant!
June 02
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD9a27zpLaw
Posted by: GORDO | June 2, 2008 7:18 PM
If a duck stands still,
you can catch him by the bill.
You ain't seen the last of Ernestine Bass
Posted by: Ernestine Bass | June 2, 2008 7:20 PM
Champ, your view of McCain and what you think Obama will do are dubious. If Obama winds he will have such issues dogging him, 2010 will make him a lame duck. No candidate has tanked towards victory and with good reason: no candidate enjoyed such Press. Obama supporters like a few we have here have become legendary. The stuff spewed from the Left these last several months will leave a bitter taste in the center for several more.
Obama screwed Michigan and Hillary with the help of Dodd abd Edwards. Fact not fiction. Obama has no answers nor the money for his promises. Already his supporters are accusing Hillary supporters of blatant racism. Just look at the weekend threads at ABC's blogs. This election will be the most divisive and the vetting of Obama will be called racist. Frankly, some Republicans hope Obama wins...LOL 2010 will bounce them back into the game big time. and corner Obama.
Jamie is right, but don't talk to centrist Democrats about loyalty. Obama threw them under the bus too when he refused to come clean as a Senator. He called Moss a great pastor after Moss defended Wright and has shown very clear LIFE LONG judgment that the Republicans will have a great time repeating to the public.
Clinton's best move would be head of the Senate. Anything less than being the most powerful woman in the world Obama has to come and negotiate with should be off the table. And the odds that Obama heads lower in the polls are fifty fifty at best. He's one person who should never carry a pistol.
Posted by: Maxtrue | June 2, 2008 7:21 PM
Jack,
Thx for you comments. I believe they speak volumes to the help the Obama campaign can expect to get from the Clintons and t many of their supporters. Although I beg to differ with you on this: "Getting their vote is all his problem." I guess we will see.
Posted by: Rezdog
| June 2, 2008 7:22 PM
"This one is worn and scratched. "
Oh come on Bri. My creative writing is improving daily. It takes talent to say the same thing one hundred different ways.
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 7:27 PM
Max,
The Clinton campaign had no problem writing off MI and Fl when they though they didn't need them, for no other reason than to conserve resources (which they have proven ineffective at managing) for other primaries. Her surrogates voted for that resolution. I hate using this word over and over, but it is DISINGENUOUS to assert otherwise, as that whole process has been well documented.
Ironically, if FL and MI had kept their primaries where they were, they would have been in an influential place in the cycle, much like Pennsylvania, which had the first relevant primary of my lifetime this year.
Posted by: champ | June 2, 2008 7:28 PM
Neupogen? I love having $20K worth of injectibles in my closet. My act of faith is that one day they'll just send me the cash instead.
I also became a Matt Dillon of steroids, procrit and the occasional antibiotic.
Chemo becomes a commute after awhile. After over 120 weeks of it in six years, usually 4 day multifests, the thing I find most notable about it are the chemosabes I meet along the way.
What I liked most about this last year was falling forward from my hematologist's treatment room to MSK to keep a 17 year old son of friends company during his "genocidal" (MSK's word, not his) 7 day treatment cycles.
What is remarkable is this: he had Ewing's sarcoma. I still go directly to see him post-treatment. Except now... he is cancer-free, stable and we go for walks through things other than time.
There are a lot of biological treatments emerging for a great number of cancers and other diseases.
One of the people who has made herself a life or death test subject for the one which is the most amazingly successful in clinical trials has been Geraldine Ferraro.
What is even more remarkable is how she ended a treatment which had taken her from terminal status to being cancer-free so that the protocol could start its FDA trial -- and how she convinced the other people -- most of whom were, like her, last resort patients -- to end it to so that millions of people could one day have a chance to get this same treatment --
Which is not only effective with blood based cancers but all herpes zoster based cancers and auto-immune diseases --
Including AIDS, Crohn's, Lupus, MS, rheumatoid arthritis and (at minimum) dozens more.
Posted by: 9/11 survivor (sort of)
| June 2, 2008 7:28 PM
Brain, no one knows better how to attract flies than you do. And I do compliment the simplicity of how you do it. After all, it seems to be your duty.
If Obama can't get back the majority of Clinton supporters who voted for her in larger numbers and in more Blue sttes that Obamniacs did for Obama, you're up the creek with just fiction for a paddle.
Posted by: Maxtrue | June 2, 2008 7:30 PM
Richard Pryor was a genius and that is one beautiful Ebony cover.
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 7:32 PM
Patsi,
Come back. Trail mix misses it's junk yard dog.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=CqVEtZNqrcs
Posted by: phrends of phatsi | June 2, 2008 7:32 PM
The Clinton campaign had no problem writing off MI and Fl when they though they didn't need them, for no other reason than to conserve resources (which they have proven ineffective at managing) for other primaries. Her surrogates voted for that resolution. I hate using this word over and over, but it is DISINGENUOUS to assert otherwise, as that whole process has been well documented
Factless. It was Obama who lied to the people of Florida about his intentions.
Lay off the kewlaid Chump
Posted by: Brian de Clinton | June 2, 2008 7:32 PM
As Primary Election Season 2008 draws to a close, after an 8th thrashing of Barack Hussein Obama out of 13 possible since March 4th, the guttersnipes are really going crazy.
One day they are half-heartedly extending an olive branch of peace, the next day, they are armed with bamboo sticks and throwing their arms about wildly hoping to hit anyone close by who even appears to support Hillary Rodham Clinton.
They are so out of their minds it's pitiful.
http://sugarnspice.typepad.com/sugar_n_spicea_meeting_pl/2008/06/election-2008-g.html#comments
Posted by: Patsi's Radiers | June 2, 2008 7:34 PM
15 million dollars in federal money to Trinity (over some period of time -- didn't catch the exact time period). . Why am I not surprised.
Posted by: lizbeth
| June 2, 2008 7:34 PM
Trail mix misses it's junk yard dog.
regretably that rabid beast is still here despite promises to leave
Posted by: The Manger | June 2, 2008 7:35 PM
Richard Pryor was a genius and that is one beautiful Ebony cover.
Posted by: Jamie Author Profile Page | June 2, 2008 7:32 PM
Amen to that. So is Dick Gregory. Particularly when he states that the Civil Rights act of 1964 was not just for African Americans, but for women, ALL women, as well.
Posted by: frank | June 2, 2008 7:40 PM
Posted by: Maxtrue | June 2, 2008 7:38 PM
Posted by: champ | June 2, 2008 7:28 PM
Posted by: Brian de Clinton | June 2, 2008 7:44 PM
Maxtrue. . . That was your foot you just shot.
Shit for Brains is one of yours LOL
Posted by: speedy gonzales | June 2, 2008 7:46 PM
"A hundred? More like 10,000"
Gee I'm better than I thought.
Posted by: Jamie
| June 2, 2008 7:46 PM
I really hope everyone who threatens to leave the dm party does so. I wish everyone would leave both parties. They aren't really necessary - money can be given straight to candidates. but the biggest reason is the power a "party" gives to un-elected officials. Unelected is the same thing as un-accountable. I never voted for Kennedy or Pelosi, but they run one half of the government. The elites, many of whom we know absolutely nothing about, haven't changed in decades.
Joining a party gives it power to make so many decisions and they do NOT consider what we want. that is an absolute fact - they decide on the basis of what they think they can get away with to stay in power.
Republicans are not happy - they didn't like their available candidates and many are not happy with McCain. There are a lot of views in that party which have been ignored - why do they support their party?
The same thing is true with dems. Whether Hillary got 17,000,000 votes or not, she split the vote 50-50. The swing to Obama has come from the party, not the voters. You Obama supporters might gloat now, but it has happened to you before and will happen to you again. That's what party politics is about - swinging weight around. Kennedy, Pelosi, and Dean are counting on the women of the country to be accomodating, like Mrs. Spitzer and Mrs. Vitter and Mrs. Paterson - like all the battered women whp have sighed and been understanding, like our grandmothers and all the women in the history of the world.
Anybody who has not liked the way the dem party has forced Obama on us and Hillary out of the way --- if you have seen it this way, please stop giving your money and attention and efforts to a political party. There is no need for them. We can figure out for ourselves which candidate we want in power.
Posted by: bethyboo
| June 2, 2008 7:49 PM
Posted by: speedy gonzales | June 2, 2008 7:46 PM
Wrong name ...right comment.
the original statement came from Chump and it is factless balderdash
Posted by: Taco Bell | June 2, 2008 7:50 PM
Hey Speedy be sure and attend a LULAC meeting and sign in with that name
Posted by: Taco Bell | June 2, 2008 7:52 PM
Why does everybody keep talking about Larry Johnson? I mean , I like the Kansas City Chiefs and he is a good running back and all. But....
Posted by: Corey
| June 2, 2008 7:53 PM
Hockey Time! Go Wings!!
Posted by: Corey
| June 2, 2008 8:03 PM
Scotty (Weasel) McClennan on Bill O'Reilly.
Posted by: lizbeth
| June 2, 2008 8:04 PM
Desperate Obama Disinformation Over Michelle “Whitey” Video
"The Obama campaign is telling reporters from major news organizations that the videotape of Michelle Obama railing against “whitey” at a panel alongside Nation of Islam maximum leader Louis Farrakhan is nothing but a “scurrilous lie,” according to one of those reporters who called for an answer.
But at the same time the Obama campaign has disseminated either a doctored or concocted transcript of the supposedly nonexistent videotape. Major Obama donors went to the campaign demanding explanations after the posting of my story on No Quarter about the contents of the videotape confirmed to me by several reliable sources, all Republicans with access to knowledge but who do not know each other.
So the campaign created a would-be transcript of the video it says doesn’t exist."
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/06/02/desperate-obama-disinformation-over-michelle-whitey-video/
Posted by: GORDO | June 2, 2008 8:05 PM
Has anybody seen the new update from Larry Johnson.
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/06/02/desperate-obama-disinformation-over-michelle-whitey-video/#more-2893
Posted by: vadaryl
| June 2, 2008 8:06 PM
Interesting Larry said he as getting his info from the REPUBS and Roger Stone said he was getting HIS FROM HIGH level Hillary people.
Posted by: vadaryl
| June 2, 2008 8:13 PM
Go Pens
Posted by: vadaryl
| June 2, 2008 8:14 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD9a27zpLaw
Posted by: Rumors of Her Death... | June 2, 2008 8:17 PM
Roger Stone: MICHELLE OBAMA HIT NEXT?
The Presidential contest between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama is likely to be roiled in coming days by revelations that Michelle Obama made racist comments in a speech for which there is allegedly an indelible record. This is why Hillary Clinton is still in the race and why her people have been in a race with Republican Opposition Researchers to get their hands on the offensive recording.
On the heels of Michelle Obama's quote that she "has never been proud of her country" until now, the new controversy could turn the contest up-side down but is more likely to redound to the benefit of John McCain than to boost Hillary Clinton to the nomination- if the alleged recording exists.
Mark Penn, who "resigned" as the Clinton Campaign strategist but is still the Clinton campaign strategist told intimates the bombshell "could come this week"
http://stonezone.com/
Posted by: vadaryl
| June 2, 2008 8:17 PM
This is who The Obama's befriended and hung out with,
LOUIS FARRAKHAN: White Folks, You Owe Us The Whole Country!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWxNeGOXSoA
at the 2 minute mark.
Posted by: Bye Bye Bri Bri | June 2, 2008 8:21 PM
The endless predictionsof a flood of super delegates is just as annoying as the endless predicitions about the tape. The hype is so great now unless she is frothing at the mouth and having a threesome with Phleger and Wright it wil be anti-climatic.
Posted by: Too much of the same information | June 2, 2008 8:23 PM
from: Desperate Obamas Misinformation
"He’s doing everything he can before the vote in South Dakota and Montana to try to depress Hillary’s turnout. Obama’s Big Lie has worked before. To listen to Obama Hillary has been dropping out since the beginning of the campaign."
Posted by: watcher | June 2, 2008 8:28 PM
The Pens are not dead yet. They just scored. 1 - 0
Posted by: vadaryl
| June 2, 2008 8:32 PM
The Band - The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38JpAMG65Dg
Posted by: whskyjack
| June 2, 2008 8:37 PM
Do you believe in miracles, Pens lead 2 - 0
Posted by: vadaryl
| June 2, 2008 8:43 PM
There are already a number of tapes any one of which should be enough to destroy Obama. Where is this Michelle tape? It reminds me of Big Foot, lots of suspicion but just short of any real evidence. If there is a tape, it should be produced pronto or stop all the hype.
Posted by: lizbeth
| June 2, 2008 8:44 PM
Vad - Are you Al Michaels?
Posted by: Corey
| June 2, 2008 8:46 PM
"I really hope everyone who threatens to leave the dm party does so." Bethyboo
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/06/obamas-hollywood-ending.html#comment-94230
Bethyboo, you were right on in your post. All of it.
Posted by: I agree | June 2, 2008 8:47 PM
Here are my thoughts on the supposed whitey tape:
1. If she is really saying "Why'd he" it will be very clear in the audio/visual as "Why'd he" is a question as opposed to the term "Whitey" in the sentence which then turns it into a statement. The intonation will tell the story.
2. Why is she on a panel with Louis Farrakhan? How does this help Obama with the Jewish vote? Ugh.
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 8:52 PM
bethyboo....I agree with you. I suggested in my post @6:34 that when Obama declares victory, those of us who are changing to the Independent party do it the day after Obama claims victory.
Posted by: jean | June 2, 2008 8:57 PM
1. If she is really saying "Why'd he" it will be very clear in the audio/visual as "Why'd he" is a question as opposed to the term "Whitey" in the sentence which then turns it into a statement. The intonation will tell the story. Ally
Ally, not only would you be able to tell by how she used the word, I think there must be more than just that one word. It's been rumored she's really ranting on in this tape and that it's quite damning. This can't all come down to one word "whitey". There's more.
Posted by: I agree | June 2, 2008 8:58 PM
Jackl,
Speaking of the Band, here's an interview with Levon Helm that really tells us some insight on how to lead our life:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Jj-8j27visI
Posted by: frank | June 2, 2008 8:59 PM
And if she was on a panel with Farrakahn discussing the Jena Six, that had to have been in the last year. Why would she be on a panel with Farrakahn in the last year? While Obama was running for President? That makes no sense at all. This makes me wonder if the whole story is just kooky.
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 9:04 PM
.I agree with you. I suggested in my post @6:34 that when Obama declares victory, those of us who are changing to the Independent party do it the day after Obama claims victory.
Posted by: jean |
jean,
I saw your 6:34 post and plan on doing what you suggested. Resigning from the DNC the day after the last primary.
Posted by: I agree | June 2, 2008 9:07 PM
Jack,
I figured you pick it up, but a sarcasm emot would be nice.
My wife is more optimistic than me but she doesn't hang out in the blogs or on the internet as much either. She's been a more loyal democrat for longer too.
I have several older women in my family that I speak with frequently and most are Clintonites and strong dems too. I think most of them will vote the party in the end.
It funny to me how we think others are in tune politically as us, but it's just not the case.
Posted by: Rezdog
| June 2, 2008 9:09 PM
Craig talking on MSNBC right now
Posted by: I agree | June 2, 2008 9:10 PM
I'm beginning to believe in this divided government idea. I love the story about the transcript from the occasion that never happened. Maybe they could get Karl Rove and Alberto Gonzalez that way - report the words but then say it didn't happen or they didn't say that.
Posted by: bethyboo
| June 2, 2008 9:13 PM
I find the Michelle Obama alleged "whitey" controversy boring. Why don't we discuss things that matter such as health care or the mortgage crisis.
Posted by: Oregon Democrat | June 2, 2008 9:20 PM
Craig is saying Clinton should be offered the veep on Abrams and standing up for her.
Posted by: I agree | June 2, 2008 9:20 PM
I've already left the Democratic party.
Everyone that wants to leave should leave now.
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 9:22 PM
Yay Craig! I just love it when you're on TV. Wish you had your own show.
Posted by: Alicia Knight
| June 2, 2008 9:23 PM
Oregon Dem: You know I love you but if we don't win in November, there won't be universal health care OR help to those suffering in the mortgage crisis.
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 9:24 PM
Craig: You looked very trim tonight.
If Dan doesn't give you a chance to finish that last thought, you must let those of us on the blog know what you were going to say.
Also: Dan's outfit tonight is sooooo cute.
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 9:26 PM
Lost your house? Not important. Job outsourced? Not important. Can’t afford the gas to get to work? Not important. Predatory lending, which really affects the AA community? Not important. Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan? Not important. Real universal health care? Not important. Think these issues are important? You’re a racist.
Posted by: candymarl | June 2, 2008 9:26 PM
I find the Michelle Obama alleged "whitey" controversy boring. Why don't we discuss things that matter such as health care or the mortgage crisis.
Posted by: Oregon Democrat | June 2, 2008 9:20 PM
You are absolutely right.
Posted by: frank | June 2, 2008 9:26 PM
Well, if it is just McCain and Obama, all you hurting Clinton pups can come join the party- the last eight years have not been so bad- that is a media fiction.
We have not been attacked.
We are a strong, good people.
Bush has not ended abortion.
McCain will welcome all women voters- the last eight years have not been that bad, and think of how good the next eight can be-
McCain in 08.
Posted by: Rosie | June 2, 2008 9:30 PM
Please don't vote for McCain.
Write in Hillary's name or don't vote for POTUS, but don't vote for McCain.
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 9:33 PM
Well if we wanted insight into healthcare or the mortgage crisis, we would be learning much from Obama. Perhaps Hillary could come here and chat with us.
Obama plans to raise the capital gains tax to 28%. He wants to raise taxes on those really people making 100.000 per year while cutting defense.
Posted by: Maxtrue | June 2, 2008 9:33 PM
If the idea is to keep Obama out of the WH, why would one not vote for McCain and waste a vote? Is it because McCain is evil or hates America? I think McCain has far fewer associates like Ayers, Wright Pfleger (who help CREATE Obama), Meeks, Rezko and others. McCain is far more center than Obama who is VERY Liberal. So much so he called Hillary a Republican Lite.
Good luck with that.
Posted by: Maxtrue | June 2, 2008 9:37 PM
the night they drove old dixie down
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38JpAMG65Dg
Posted by: whskyjack
| June 2, 2008 9:40 PM
Bill is definitely inferring that the Pflegler thing was planned.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mayhill-fowler/bill-clinton-purdhum-a-sl_b_104771.html
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 9:48 PM
Did he win yet?
Posted by: unlikely_burrito
| June 2, 2008 9:50 PM
Burrito: I was just thinking of typing the EXACT SAME THING. At least we get to say that for the next 5 months. I think we could add a tick tock to it as well. It would make sense.
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 9:52 PM
Speaking of McCain....they have been playing McCain '08 ads here in West Michigan tonight.
Posted by: Corey
| June 2, 2008 9:53 PM
Ally: Shouldn't Mayhill Fowler's column be called "Under The Bus" in honor of Obama?
Can that possibly be her REAL name? Sounds like she should be writing romance novels.
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 9:53 PM
funny
: )
Posted by: unlikely_burrito
| June 2, 2008 9:53 PM
Corey: I get McCain ads in Iowa...
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 9:53 PM
Kelsey Grammer had a mild heart attack.
Posted by: Corey
| June 2, 2008 9:54 PM
Corey: I get McCain ads in Iowa...
Posted by: Ally | June 2, 2008 9:53 PM
Ally: Oy! Lucky you.
Posted by: GAKaren
| June 2, 2008 9:55 PM
Um, I think Mayhill Fowler sounds like the name of a brothel madame...
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 9:55 PM
Karen: I know...corn and McCain. This really is heaven.
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 9:56 PM
Tatum O'Neal should have stuck to buying weed , instead of buying cocaine.
Posted by: Corey
| June 2, 2008 9:58 PM
Obama was in Michigan today. Troy , MI. I guess he didn't go visit Kwame in Detroit.
Posted by: Corey
| June 2, 2008 9:59 PM
"If Dan doesn't give you a chance to finish that last thought, you must let those of us on the blog know what you were going to say. -- Posted by: Ally"
Ah, it wasn't important Ally. Was going to make some mischief and point out that Woodrow Wilson went to his convention in third place and still won.
My you folks have been busy today. Gotta run -- new thread at midnight
Posted by: Craig Crawford
| June 2, 2008 10:11 PM
Much has been written about the alleged "dark motives" of Senator Clinton during this historic race for the Democratic nomination. For example, that she has sought to irreparably harm Obama to doom his chances in the general in order to set up a run in 2012 or that her ambition and ego blinded her to the fact that she could not win a long time ago.
I am someone who believes people are a bit more complicated and that trying to distill someone's motivations into a single thought almost always shades us from the truth. So given that - I would like to offer a more noble ambition that might have been part of HRC's willingness to take the race to the "bitter end": That the Clintons believed that fighting Obama tooth and nail through June 3 was the best way to set up the Democratic Party for victory in November.
Now I have been a staunch Obama supporter since even before he threw his hat in the ring. And I certainly admit that I have cringed at some of the tactics of the Clinton campaign and have sneered at the television as Clinton and her surrogates took Obama to task. But in hindsight - there appears to be two clear benefits - that may have been obvious to veteran politicians such as the Clintons sooner than most. A hard-fought nomination race would give Obama the battle experience (and scars) he needs to take on the GOP this Fall and that conceding only after Obama reached the "magic number" - as opposed to caving into the calls of the pundits and Obama supporters - was the most effective way to give Obama's nomination legitimacy in the eyes of Clinton's supporters and others. (I also think the GOP would have seized on the notion that the media handed Obama the nomination if Clinton dropped out early).
I think the Clintons know that our nation is at a critical moment in its history - and that changing parties in the White House - is a crucial part of turning the page on the Bush Administration. And while they both have huge egos - just like anyone else with the audacity to run for the most important job in the world - they are also staunch Democrats and patriotic Americans.
So this is one Obama supporter that is willing to give the Clintons the benefit of the doubt. Now if you accept the premise (which I freely acknowledge many won't) that Hillary believes that staying in this race to the end is the best way to increase Obama's chances for victory in the Fall - then I think it is tremendously admirable that Hillary Clinton decided to see this race through to its conclusion in the face of the ridicule and slander she has received from both the press and her colleagues in Washington over the last few weeks. So let us pause for a second to acknowledge that maybe - just maybe - Clinton and her team continued to press arguments (e.g., the "big states" and the popular vote) that they knew would not win the battle for the nomination - in order to win the war for the White House.
So Kudos to Hillary Clinton. And whether she is VP, in the cabinet or in the Senate - she will play a vital role in this Country's future.
Posted by: warren
| June 2, 2008 10:17 PM
Thanks Craig!
I figured the VP topic would come up and, the impression I get from the Obama faithful at HuffPo is that Hillary on the ticket would tarnish his "brand." (Is "brand" the most overused word in the world or what?) Anyhow, Roy definitely implied that Obama is too authentic for her. Boy is that ironic considering that she won a lot of swing states on her ability to connect with certain blocs of voters that are critical to success in November. (Ironic is my word of the day.)
I stand by my prediction that the post will not be offered to her...
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 10:21 PM
TICK TOCK!!!!
Posted by: Corey
| June 2, 2008 10:22 PM
Warren: I think she thought she could win. Nothing more complex or heroic than that. Obama isn't Jesus and neither is Hillary.
Posted by: Ally
| June 2, 2008 10:25 PM
Booman Blows the Obama Disinformation Campaign
"Our thanks to Martin Longman over at Booman Tribune. He performed a public service last night by disseminating Barack Obama talking points even before I had published my update. Two key points–First, the Obama campaign is admitting the tape exists by ponying up a bogus explanation. Second, they don’t dispute that Michelle is sitting at the table with Louis Farrakhan."
More:
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/06/02/booman-blows-the-obama-disinformation-campaign/
Posted by: GORDO | June 2, 2008 10:26 PM
Predictions of the past
Warren: Obama will carry Puerto Rico
Dog, why don't we go down there and party