Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Not trying to be a Bilderberg nut -- but what's Johnson's tie to that crowd?

This connection is just part of my problems with Obama. His being in the tank with the telecommunications industry is another. All the while, professing to be a new kind of candidate. America has been in a Bush-Depression, and Obama offered a Fix, a political upper.

Amazing, I'm actually going to be at the top of the 800 or 900 posts today. Having Johnson as a senior advisor on vetting any vice presidential nominee was not a good move by any stretch of the imagination. It makes him look like an old style politician not the breath of fresh air he wants the American people to believe in. Let's hope Johnson doesn't emerge from the pack as the vp nominee as Big Dick did in 2000. God forbid!

Patsi,

Are you going to adopt PB as a nickname? : ) This latest on Sen. Obama is what many of us keep sensing. Whether he is naive or devious, the associations with political power players of less than sterling repute call into question just how much "change" is likely to happen and is it "change" that we want?

I'm glad it's a long time until the election to wait and see what he has to offer other than words.

Sleepy Bye time for me. Everyone have a good night.

"Let's hope Johnson doesn't emerge from the pack as the vp nominee as Big Dick did in 2000. God forbid!"

Oh God. Call me stupid. (I know I'm opening myself for the insults...) But eprof -- I hadn't thought it through that far, to think about this guy pulling a Cheney.

Anyone else as tired as I am of the extremely long drawn out primary season this go around for president? I'm putting forth a plan to shorten the primary season by several months as well as making the process more democratic where every vote counts and every vote counts the same, almost. The plan is over on my blog, www.eprof2.blogspot.com. I know in advance I'm whistling Dixie in the dark or spitting in the ocean and expect to see it rise. But, as a political junkie and mostly turned off by the process, I can only imagine what the general public thinks about this "permanent campaigning." If it's Tuesday, there must be an election someplace!

"I'm putting forth a plan to shorten the primary season by several months as well as making the process more democratic where every vote counts and every vote counts the same, almost. "

Prof -- I'm heading to your site now. This madness must stop.

Hi all,

I am so excited to be on here before the 550th post! Being in Calif. and all, I guess I have to start coming on after 10pm my time.

Anyway, I don't have much to add except, BHO bad, HRC good -- you know, my usual.

eprof -- can you give an actual link....for some reason I can seem to get this to come up. I keep getting a different site.

Sorry about that Patsi. It's http://eprof22.blogspot.com/. I left the second 2 off. You can link from my type key id too. Let me know what you think about my plan.

Wow, I've been trying to get to my blog from here and neither entry above works. However, if you go through Jamie's blog, http://jdurward.blogspot.com/, you can get to mine. Weird!

You can't get to Jamie's blog either from these posts At least not tonight. I've never had this happen before so it must be something in Typekey. However, I just went to Craig's blogroll (on the right hand side above), scrolled down to Jamie's entry, Durwood Discussion, and got to her's ok. From there you can get to mine. Sorry about this detour. Apparently the road has some pot holes in it tonight.

Hi everyone,

The fact Obama chose a man so glaringly inappropriate as Johnson to be one
of only three on his VP search team, again, points out Obama's lack of judgment and inexperience.

I really don't know why a person on the vp search committee is getting such a negative reaction when you people were quite willing to fellate Mark Penn.

CatBalu,

I know how you feel. I'm in California, too. It's difficult to coordinate times so
that I can blog on Trail Mix when anyone is awake.

Are you in southern or northern Cal? I'm in southern.

And I agree with you. Boo Obama. Yeah, Hillary. Not that it does much
good to support Hill now that Count Axelrod and Camp Obama have neatly shredded her.

eprof2,

Just a few quick comments. I won't go into great detail since it was just a precursory read and i ain't got much time.

1. What about Indep.and third parties.? Many don't like the lock of the two party system. Your plan would reinforces that.

2. Rotate regions on a schedule if not just so people can plan in advance. Have you ever tried booking a facility with only 1 years notice? impossible.

3. Caucuses exist for many reason that we don't really understand or could remedy easily. i.e. money, voting laws and legislation controlled by States.

Just a couple of quick comments as it appears you're in the input stage of plan development. I'm not throwing water your idea but wanting to contribute it. Please keep us informed, I enjoy this type of discussion and have been concerned about our electoral system for many years.

"you people "

Uh oh...watch out, Bear...:)

Good Morning all,

I cannot understand that all of you are so surprised by BO picking this man.
Please,
the big O is surrounded by the old guard from Washington. And all a bunch of sore losers who one way or the other or using this man to get back into the cream of Washington.
From Kennedy to Kerry. From Johnson to Jackson. they all lost bitter races...... and never seemd to recuperate form that embarrasment!

I said this when I started posting on this blog months ago. You will see more and more of the old guard back at the helm with BO, the closer we get to the GE. His mouth is full of change, but of course it is only talk.... He has the aura of being a big league speaker and that is what has brought him this far...

Stay tuned for more old guys form the establishment joinging ranks with this youngster. According to bambi, he needs them.....

Don´t blame me, I voted Hillary.....
(proudly displaying my bumpersticker)

Sen. Obama, We Women Are Not “Tokens”

"First, a word about the token selection of Caroline Kennedy (Schlossberg) to the “Veep” nominating committee. I know of nothing in Caroline Kennedy’s background that qualifies her to be one of three people to submit the short list of vice presidential nominees to Barack Obama. She has never been an elected official or run for office. She has never held a high-ranking position in any administration or federal department or agency. Mrs. Schlossberg has a distinguished resume as a patron of the arts and board member of important institutions, but not in political or government office."

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/06/10/sen-obama-we-women-are-not-tokens/

Patsi,

You always make good points, worth considering. Any critical thinker
appreciates the fact you question the current dysfunctional state of the
Democratic party. The Dem party is seriously divided no matter what some people would like us to believe.

Rez -- Caucuses may not mean anything to you because you are still a young man. And on this board, we old bats have been bashed....so I understand people not considering us. But some of us would find it difficult to stand up at a damned town meeting for three hours. (Plus, keep in mind, it seems like yesterday that I was babysitting for 30-year old couples and wondering why they even cared to go to dances because they were so old....it's coming at you faster than you think.)

But the larger problem about this move toward caucuses is this: WHY don't the states have money for the single most important thing about a democracy -- a real VOTE? Could some have hoped that the secret ballot system is a problem that could be solved by caucuses? It's so Third World.

Fascinating that a moronic tattooed dope smoker would question that fact that Marcia, a college professor is a critical thinker.

Why do people care about the qualifications of a group that will make suggestions about possible Vice Presidential candidates?

If I understand Clinton supporters already, the voters were retards for electing him. With that being the standard, how could 3 people of above average intelligence and love for the Democratic Party do worse than the general, non Clinton voting public?

I see people taking about the damage within the Democratic party. What would you be thinking and saying when black leaders came out and expressed their dislike for Clinton's campaign? Would you mock them if they toyed with the idea of voting republican?

If Obama came out against affirmative action, would that get your vote if he removed racial bias but kept gender bias?

Patsi,

College professors gave George W. Bush 2 degrees. You hate Obama, what about those retards who gave him skins?

I have seen college professors bang their hot students so they could pass and I have seen dope smoking, tattoed idiots become multimillionaires. So your point is to judge by appearances?

Patsi,

Cute story, I hope you didn't have to give him change for a $10...

Bear, are you referring to the man who was my husband? Unless that was a joke, I guess oinkers can make $10 whore comments even out of marriage.

patsi...happened to me in Calumet City , Indiana, 30 years ago...went to office of motel..."you want an hour, all-nighter, or what?", spoke the scantily clad room clerk as my wife waited in the car, weary from a motel-search. Three ladies came to the window , dressed in ...well...not much.
We hit the road and at 2:00 A.M. found a motel 90 miles away from the pay-by-the-hour love palace.

Dex -- I hope you aren't joking, because that's a grand story!

"If I understand Clinton supporters already, the voters were retards for electing him."

The DNC "selected" him. Hillary received 300,000 + more votes than Obama.

DNC = SCOTUS

BHO = GWB

i confess to knowing nothing about jim johnson.

was caroline kennedy placed on the search committee just to give the kennedy family a say-so, to reward them for an early Kennedy family Obama love-fest?

I recommend Wesley Kanne Clark to Obama's search committee for veep.

Marcia -- That old saw about "those who can" is one of those memes that truly undermines our future. Because what it shows is a complete contempt for education.

We may be headed for Banana Republic status.

Typo: I meant "seems to degenerate"

patsi: Calumet City was a wide-open sin city in the 1950s. It had been 'cleaned up' by a succession of new city administrations, so we were kinda freaked out to find a whore-motel in 1977. It is true, my story...I can still visualize the "MOTEL" neon sign...how were we to know?...and we had only been married a week at the time. To this day, my wife has yet to laugh about that night...she was mortified.

@Dexter:
i love these stories...Always good to hear...What was the comment from the wife :))

@Dexter:
That is one reason. The other reason is that he needs to give the appearance that a woman is on his squad, giving the thought that women were not left out.

@Gordo:
Can you explain your abbreviations...Maybe I am a bit behind today.....

"Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) is attracting elite Jewish Democratic donors who backed Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (N.Y.) and are concerned about Sen. Barack Obama’s (D-Ill.) stance toward Israel, say McCain backers who are organizing the effort to court Democrats."

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/jewish-dem-donor-joins-mccain-team-2008-06-10.html

Self images aside,

If Jesus Christ ran for political office, I would view him as a politician. Just like every other career that is in ill repute because of a few bad apples, I don't think there is anything wrong with a politician.

Where politicians go wrong is when they start to compromise their principles in order to get elected. When they decide that they would rather get the money or the power instead of doing the bidding of their constituents. I can understand concerns about Obama but I don't get how someone who has flip flopped so many times, how someone who says something, then when he is called on it, lies about having said it, even when presented with the video of it, is given a free pass. That I don't get.

There is such an unwillingness to look at all candidates through the same prism. I am convinced that were the roles between Obama and Clinton reversed, he would have been more magnanimous sooner, they would have begged Obama to help beg the black community to vote for her and that if she lost to McCain, he would get the blame. Instead you are setting Hillary up to be the hero of 2012.

"It is true, my story...I can still visualize the "MOTEL" neon sign...how were we to know?...and we had only been married a week at the time. To this day, my wife has yet to laugh about that night...she was mortified."

Hilarious! Dex -- I love this kind of stuff. I still remember when my husband whispered, "Dammit, honey, this is a hooker hotel!" And I -- dead tired --looked around and finally "got it" and thought, who cares? I need sleep!

Why do you need a committee when your short list is already

Sen Jack Reed of RI. A defense expert who is the preference of many current and retired generals in the Pentagon. Also a West Point grad

Sen. Jack Webb of VA. Another defense expert, former Sec. Navy, ardent anti war critic from a key battle ground state. He would also best help with PA, WV, OH voters that went for Clinton cuz he wasn't a dark candidate.

Gov. Mark Warner of VA. Telegenic and highly popular governor from VA.

Who gives a crap why he has Caroline Kennedy on the committee? Lord knows I wouldn't want Hillary on there because she was too dumb to spend $7 million on Mark Penn. If she hired OJ Simpson, she would have done better than with Mark Penn.

GORDO,

Yes, to your question as to why Caroline was placed on the search team.

It was almost laughable that she was so obviously picked as pay back to
Teddy and his friends, also she is the token woman meant to please all
us angry, Dem females.

As soon as I heard Caroline Kennedy was on the VP committee I thought, what experience has she ever had doing anything? She's overseen her mom's charities, more as a figure head and she's never really worked, at least not in a real job.

I mean I like the woman okay, but come on. She's a rich lady who was just lucky enough to have famous relatives. (Of course, it was a tragedy her father
was killed, but still that doesn't qualify her to choose a vice president).

Democratic National Committee

Supreme Court of the United States

Barack Hussein Obama

George Walker Bush

Who gives a crap why he has Caroline Kennedy on the committee? Lord knows I wouldn't want Hillary on there because she was too dumb to spend $7 million on Mark Penn. If she hired OJ Simpson, she would have done better than with Mark Penn.

Posted by: Bear | June 11, 2008 2:45 AM

LOL LOL LOL
We have a winner......... :))

"I don't get how someone who has flip flopped so many times, how someone who says something, then when he is called on it, lies about having said it, even when presented with the video of it, is given a free pass. That I don't get."

Are you talking about Obama or McCain?

Plus, regarding the rest of your post. Call it perception or whatever you want. Obama would never have pulled the AA community to the table. Do you ever listen to c-span? And he's setting Hillary and women up to be the "fallguys" if he loses.

Just listen to the pundits:

"Well, is Hillary REALLY going to campaign?"
"HOW HARD will she work for him?"
Really, really hard? Or not! Because if she doesn't....
"Well, is BILL going to help?"
"If Hillary doesn't bring her 'people' aboard, the Clintons are ruined!"
"Bill's legacy rests on Obama's election!"
"What about Chelsea? She better be in those same colleges where she campaigned for her mother!"

I have heard every one of those on cable in the past week.

Jesus, Mary and Joseph!

Where were those screams and threats when Howard Dean, Bill Bradley -- or for that matter, Gary Hart and Ted Kennedy involved?

This WOULD NOT BE HAPPENING WITH A MALE OPPONENT!

Here's what I say about all this oinker crap: I am woman, and in November, hear me snore.

Here's what I say about all this oinker crap: I am woman, and in November, hear me snore.

Posted by: Patsi | June 11, 2008 2:58 AM

Another winner.... LOL LOL LOL
Today must be my birthday!

Anyway,
I don´t know if it is a womans issue as much as a anti HRC issue. They (DNC cum suis) want to do everything to get rid of the Clinton´s. Now they sense a loss coming abound, so they prepare for the blame game when it happens. Of course they will do everything in their power to put it in HRC and her team and NOT on them or BO... Pathetic.
My girlfriend said it good: the media is obsessed with bringing down the Clintons. Their osession is so obvious that they don´t even hide it anymore....

excuse the typo´s...yet again!

I still support Hillary.

People need to understand that we do not have a nominee.

The first vote for a nominee will be in August.

If the best we can do in America is a McCain-Obama race..we are in deep trouble.

Champ - I take your comment very seriously and will do my best to respond adequately. I have to organize my thoughts so that I don't go off on a tangent, which God know I can do.

I want to make a copy of your comment so I can be sure to touch every one of your points. I hate it when some of my questions don't get answered, don't you?
I can't make that copy now, however, cuz my printer needs ink, and it's 12:15 in the morning here, and if I won't run out for vodka, I'm sure as shootin' not going out for ink. (No, I didn't just gulp the last of a jug - I forgot I was out !!!!!!!!!!!!)

I hope you realize I'm not dodging this since I actually expect to enjoy this. Making an effort to express myself always teaches me a great deal - some of those lessons have been ground-breaking.

I owe you thanks for the sincerity of your comment. It's a good description and example of why the two parts of the democratic party are not happy with each other.

Accept no other answers - be patient for the authentic response from bethyboo.

Jason -- I agree that this is a Hillary and Anti-Clinton thing as much as it is a wonen's issue.

But the way they went at her was a women's thing. That's what I won't forget.

Johnson's a Bilderberg, Patsi

Also:

Johnson's role as VP vetter says nothing about Obama's judgment. I doubt he had any say in the matter. Here's how it probably went down:

Shadowy Democratic Party Leader: "Hey, Congrats on the nomination, Barry. We're going to have Jim Johnson pick the VP for you."

Barack Obama: "OK then, Sounds good..."

champ,

Your scenario is even more disturbing than mine.

C'mon Marcia,

Do you honestly believe the ruling establishment of the most powerful empire in history would hand the reins over to one single person, a political novice at that?

Do you also believe that same establishment would actually allow the general public to decide on the leadership of this nation? Do you think powerful people just hand over their power with a wistfully nostalgic shug?

"The best argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter."

-Winston Churchill

That's the mentality we're dealing with. I'm not sure I disagree, sadly.

Champ,

Continuing on his mantra: change..
If this is how it went down, the I say...let us all migrate to Holland.. How will he stand his ground in making decissions of a heavier sort.

Come on Champ..This guy knows what he is doing.

Change?
Only if it is to the benefit of moi.....(BO)

Don´t blame me, I voted for Hillary!

champ,

I like the Churchill quote. I'd venture to say the average U.S. citizen today is
even a lot less informed than when Winston was around.

You're not telling me anything I don't know in regard to the fact Obama
is being directed by a powerful group of neuvo-liberals like Soros. I read
somewhere that the bulk of the internet money raised by Obama, which
was supposedly coming from the millions of new, young and ordinary
voters was actually from a few ultra-far-left ,extremely wealthy people.

The wealthy ultra-liberals and the wealthy ultra-conservatives all dine at the same restaurants, go to the same parties, and attend the same conferences; if you catch my drift, Marcia.

those who can............do.
those who can't............teach.
those who can't teach..........become critics.

nobody ever uses the whole cliche', it seems......

perhaps the caroline kennedy selection is a step toward establishing some creds for her and fits into the rumored appointment deal teddy made with the ma gov to put victoria in but with a variation: after me, either my wife or my neice.

i agree with craig on jj.

"Some people see things that are and ask , why? Some people dream things that never were and ask , why not? Some people have to go to work and don't have time for all that sh-t!" - George Carlin

Good morning Craig peeps! I missed the past couple days getting caught up with paid work. Still hae more to do in order to get ready for the Virginia DEM Convention in Hampton this weekend. It will be my son's first time as a delegate. While his friend will be attending their high school graduations and partying, he will be voting on who to send to Denver, choosing VA's Electors and whether to accept the party platform. And, partying.

That Obama is a typical old-style politician is no surprise. Look at who he picked to represet him -- Teddy Kennedy? Chis Dodd? Bill Richardson Pat Leahy? The sum of these guys political careers (and they *are* career pols) is well over 100 years!

Any way you slice it -- just more of the same.

Here is a log-forgotten article from The Hill on Obama's K Street Project:
http://thehill.com:80/leading-the-news/obamas-k-street-project-2007-03-28.html

Mojo's raking Howard Dean right now over Johnson and Obama .

Never argue with a fool. Listeners can't tell which is which.

good morning gang.....

Craig..... ROFL!!.... oooohhhh..... the sarcasm does drippth........

LOVE the use of such eloquent and professional words...... icky and ickier.....

OD.... that's exactly what I was thinking the other day..... we were all so excited about this wide open race..... on both sides..... oh the possibilities!....
and what do we get....... McCain vs Obama..... we most certainly are in deep doo doo......

Patsi.... after observing Florida in 2000 and this race for the Democratic nominee..... I've come to the conclusion we already are a Banana Republic....

Women in general, especially D women, should be outraged by the way the D party with the complicity of the MSM treated HRC during this primary election. They should be, but they won't be, because this is what they come to expect; to tolerate abuse in one form or another. Oh I know a lot of you will be offended by that, because you think your not that way, you would never stand for such total disregard, thoughtfulness and rudeness by anyone. But you have been, and what is worse it came directly from those who call themselves the beacon of protecting women rights, the D party, and the MSM. You can deny it if you wish, but the record, if you take the time to look, proves otherwise. If your employer treated you in this same way you would be taking them to court. The D party has thrown basic civility out the window when it comes to women's rights, and because of this callous act most of you will not see a female POTUS in your lifetime. My first thoughts are the majority of you don't care because you strongly believe the D party still has your best interest at heart, they honor women. But deep down in your souls, in your quiet moments you know I am right, and you also know you are powerless to do anything about it. Well there is something you could do, you could write in HRC, or sit out the election. I know this action would throw the election to McCain, but the differences between JM and HRC are not as great as one may think. So what good would this do? The one thing it would do, it would send a very strong signal to the D party that you women will no longer be taken for granted, you will no longer stand there as good loyal soldiers expecting a hand shake, a thank you, but end up only getting a pat on the head, and told in a condescending way, 'that your day will come, the time just wasn't right'. BS!!!. Your time came and it was stolen away from you by the very party you hold dear. So come November you'll end up pulling the lever for BHO, the candidate who falls far short in the qualification department, he is still the same person many of you articulated his many faults, he is the same person who the MSM provided cover for, the MSM are the ones who sat on the Wright story all those many months, it is BHO who has manage time and time again to associate himself with the elements of the VERY FAR LEFT, it is BHO's resume` that lacks any real depth. Nothing has changed about BHO, other than now he is going to be the D party nominee for POTUS. The second choice has been pushed up to the front of the line over the more qualified person, one could call this a sort of affirmative action D party style. But I'm just a R, so what I have posted has to be a misleading, or a lie. Really? Think about it.

Obama protests questions about lead V.P. vetter's history
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-06-10-Johnson_N.htm?csp=34

Obama’s Long Short List
“Ohio Gov. Ted Strickland (D) was Shermanesque on Tuesday in saying that he would ‘absolutely not’ be Sen. Barack Obama’s, D-Ill., running mate even if asked to join the Democratic ticket. Asked on NPR’s ‘All Things Considered’ if he is auditioning to be Obama’s running mate, Strickland said, “Absolutely not. If drafted I will not run, nominated I will not accept and if elected I will not serve. So, I don’t know how more crystal clear I can be.’ ”
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/06/10/obamas-long-short-list/?scp=2&sq=jim%20johnson&st=cse

Axelrod doesn't think it's necessary to vet the vetters! He just said this on MOJO!

When we were traveling a lot, we used the AAA trip guides, figured how far we wanted to go the next day, then made reservations over the phone. Took much stress out of trips.

EP2,

I thought the '54 Fords were really good cars. A departure from the old flathead V-8s, and a more sophisticated look than the early '50s models. It was a nice precursor to the really stylish '55s and '56s and the T-bird.

All of this is much more meaningful than trying to get the DNC to attempt anything rational so far as primary season reform is concerned.

Craig,
The DNC and the presumptuous Sen Obama truly deserve Mr Johnson.

Fry, sounds as if it might be time for you to become an Independent.

Obama and his Next Goal
Democrat elders and activists, having engineered, or submitted to, their choice of Obama, can now begin attending to the risk they have created.
..Barack Obama, measured by his chosen life experiences, closest associations, voting record, and pre-presidential campaign utterances, is, in personality and experience, the least qualified, and, in philosophy and program, most radically left candidate ever offered for the presidency by the Democratic Party. By comparison, George McGovern, Michael Dukakis, Walter Mondale, Al Gore and John Kerry seem the very embodiment of presidential readiness and political moderation.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/06/obama_and_his_next_goal.html

Women in general, especially D women, should be outraged by the way the D party with the complicity of the MSM treated HRC during this primary election. They should be, but they won't be, because this is what they come to expect; to tolerate abuse in one form or another. Posted by: FryDaddy June 11, 2008 8:05 AM

I can tell you of at least one who will not forget and has never, ever expected or tolerated abuse in any form. We don't all have short memories.

Corey
Is the Michigan State Legislature still in Rep. control?I know that Gov. is a DEM.

Axelrod doesn't think it's necessary to vet the vetters!

Typical BHO team spin on things. Similar to letting a bank robber do job interviews for the bank.

Not sure , Tony. I know all the reps from Ottawa County (where I live) are all Republicans.

I was surprised by Lindsey Graham's easy primary victory in SC. The conservative centrists prevailed over the irrational right. It bodes well for Mr McCain. Time for him to throw the switch on pander-mode.

FryDaddy,
Thank you for writing that.
Powerful stuff and it needed to be said.

Chloe, there are a whole bunch of us backing you up.

Craig
Thankyou Great read!! I think its important to vett the vetters,after all Dick Cheney!!! Hello

I've known two guys in my life named Jim Johnson. Both of them were jerks. Gotta get to bed. Have a good hour or two before the others wake up. LOL!

Think about it. Posted by: FryDaddy | June 11, 2008 8:05

There is a more important thing for us to do with our vote this year. Making a statement against this process is more important than electing a President. Which is more important, standing up for a life time of what we believe in or one person, Obama, achieving his dream.

Corey
Thanks.Im still thinking about Michigan and Florida and this whole Primary.Being from Michigan and living in Florida i just still feel so totally robbed by my own former and lifelong party.I just can't seem to buy into all this party unity stuff.....Never had a problem before???

Flatus,
Thank You.

Fry, sounds as if it might be time for you to become an Independent.

No. Just an R who doesn't like to see women being taken for granted.

If you weren't watching, MO JOE just had on Phil Ramone promoting his book. It sounds perfect for some of the music lovers in the crowd: "Making Music"

http://www.amazon.com/Making-Records-Scenes-Behind-Music/dp/0786868597/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1213188452&sr=1-1

Never argue with a fool. Listeners can't tell which is which.
Posted by: Corey

"Words of wisdom" of the day.
Corey, you never fail to amaze me.
You turn the most complicated things into something I can understand.

Jamie
Thanks love music!!! Will give it a look.Its a great way to not think for a bit about the political mess were in!!!

Fry -- I don't know why you are bashing nwomen over this. Read the threads. There are more than a few who are mad.

"Women and elephants never forget."

Dorothy Parker

Patsi
I am Mad as Hell!!! I always ask myself don't these bashers have mothers??? Would they want there mothers and daughters continally to be second class?? MSNBC Men are you listening???

Patsi,

I think Fry was defending the women. He may have had an ulterior motive in getting us to vote Republican, but FD does actually like the ladies.

Yeah -- Jamie, I know what he meant...but it sort of took on a "if you women don't" --whatever -- tone.

I do know Fry has been supportive through this circus.

Completely off topic, but I went to see New Riders of the Purple Sage last night. They were one of the primier cosmic country rock bands of the 70's. It was is a beautiful small venu in Londonderry, NH. These guys have been around a long time (and they look it) but it was great to hear them play just like the good old days when they opened for the Grateful Dead.

A typical Maureen Dowd column.

She has taken such pleasure in undercutting Hillary
Clinton and all things Clinton, is leading the pack
in its effort to insulate Michelle Obama from any
upcoming scrutiny.

"Mincing Up Michelle"

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/11/opinion/11dowd.html?ref=opinion&pagewanted=print

Thought this was just special:

"it's good news for Obama that Hillary's out of the race.
But it's also bad news. Now Republicans can turn
their full attention to demonizing Michelle Obama. Mrs.
Obama is the new, unwilling contestant in Round Two of the sulfurous national game of "Kill the witch."

Was it really only Republicans who slashed at Hillary
every chance they had.

Coreen
The woman has no shame does she?
LOL

Jack

Hillary for Vice President
The only way this election year could get much more exciting is if Hillary Clinton is named as a vice presidential candidate.

I'd say she has a better chance than anyone in the U.S. because she could be the choice of either Barack Obama or John McCain.

But if Obama does not pick her, Hillary still has a chance to become vice president. Think about it. Why wouldn't McCain consider her? They aren't that far apart politically.
http://www.creators.com/opinion/joseph-farah.html

Mornin' all.

Bowman, New Riders? Great group. Any of the originals still in the band?

It is sad if people think that it was the Republicans who slashed Hillary...

Dream on..

Typical situation of: hold the thief......

Democrats Still Struggling With Whole 'Party Unity' Thing

As 18 elected Democrats filed into the party's conference room for the show of force, DNC Chairman Howard Dean, evidently not realizing the microphone was picking up his words, took a swipe at Sen. Chuck Schumer, the loquacious leader of the Senate Democrats' campaign effort.

Wait until Schumer stops talking," Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid suggested to Dean.

"That'll be a long wait," Dean replied. Then began the meeting.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/10/AR2008061002705_pf.html

Collateral Damage? Half of the Democratic Party

"Having witnessed Obama, the MSM and the so-called “progressive” bloggers engage in their free-for-all of sexist, misogynist and degrading treatment of Hillary Clinton, no wonder Hillary’s supporters are inured to the fear-baiting taunts that we must vote for Obama lest we want Republican Supreme Court judges. If the Obama campaign’s performance toward Hillary and her female supporters is any indication of what they think of women, many of us will do anything to keep him out of the White House."

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/06/11/collateral-damage-half-of-the-democratic-party/

Patsi,

I think it's time for all aggrieved women to either put up or shut up and create a third party based on woman's issues. As I look at all of the possible factions with the energy to launch such a group, it seems the Hillary supporters are that demographic.

I have a question, what percentage of woman who feel cheated, scorned etc. supported the ERA in 70's? I'm wondering if there is any correlation between those groups.

Now that I think about it, how many people in politics during the effort to pass the ERA were Clinton or Obama supporters.

Fry....
you obviously haven't been reading the thread again..... not that I blame you....
one would have to be retired or have no life to keep up with all the postings on this blog nowadays.....

so far.... I haven't seen one female Clinton supporter that posts here say they are voting for Obama.... it seems to be a split between voting for McCain and writing in Clinton (my choice)..... but then.... I don't read all the posts, so I may have missed any who say they are voting for him....

to be fair.... there have been a few male Clinton supporters here who say they are voting for Obama....

... me, for instance,

When the repubs knew they were going to loose the general they came up with bo (body odor) so they can keep the white house now thats brillant a party that can't loose elects a canidate who can't win by a party that can't win go mccain heres ten votes that were hillarys now there mccains

Another question to be asked...

If fervent dislike for Obama isn't in and of itself racist, why is the same dislike for Clinton then considered sexist?

I know we will be forever on this treadmill but it seems that much of her problems with the media was personal.

If you think that Obama hates women, perhaps you should start showing up at his rallies with coat hangers? Maybe pictures of a bruised and battered Hillary Clinton and just say he is abusive?

Clinton Supporters Voting For McCain

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVUNZDdptHY

Obama’s Unofficial Slogan: ‘No, You’re Wrong.’
Whatever happened to his ‘pang of shame’?

As Barack Obama’s campaign becomes defined by a series of embarrassments — his assessment of what small-town residents cling to, a mentor who believes the government created HIV, a friend of 20 years who takes to the pulpit and demands whites give up 401(k) accounts to atone for their ancestor’s racist sins, a wife who pledges to take away some people’s pie and give it to others, an associate who expresses no regret over planting a bomb in a Pentagon women’s bathroom, etc. — it seems mind-boggling that this candidate was once promoted as a healer, a unifier, and a groundbreaking, post-partisan leader.
http://article.nationalreview.com/print/?q=MDI5ZDMyZjM4ZWY5MWY5ZTgyNDU2MzExNjZmZTc2Yjg=

"No. Just an R who doesn't like to see women being taken for granted."- FD

Yeah, Right!

The great GOP. The party of women's rights. Give me a break.

Send that comment in and link the site, I think they'll pay you for that one... . Oh. sorry... .they're broke.

Perhaps a 12 step program will be started for the
Hillary Haters

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/09/AR2008060902238.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

"Now, though, an eerie silence has settled over the land. With Hillary Clinton out of the race, thousands of computer keyboards have been stilled, dozens of books have been abandoned in mid-chapter, and enormously influential bloggers, most of them unknown to me, have vanished from the Web. Some anti-Hillary obsessives (see the latest Diagnostic and Statistical Manual) must be feeling the sickening vertigo once experienced by Vaughn Meader, whose entire show business career was based on impersonating John F. Kennedy and who, in essence, died when Kennedy did.

It's over, ladies and gentlemen. Hillary Clinton lost. And so did you."

Jack,

Yes. I'm pretty sure we agree that I was commenting that MODO & others like her had savaged Hillary, not just the GOP.

However, Dog's response suggests that I may have not made that clear.

For the record, I believe the MSM is circling the wagons to cut off, deflect, curtail any effort by anyone to scrutinize Michelle Obama.

Something that MODO & her co-horts never did with regard to Hillary.

Dog,

As far as your LA Times article, it simply reinforces my
observation--tthe MSM is attempting to pre-empt any
examination of Michelle Obama.

Fry, nice post. Nice sentiment.

As I read the opinions of Clinton supporters, I think the way that McCain could sure up those voters would be to frame Obama's candidacy as the ultimate example of what's wrong with affirmative action.

He could argue that "the more qualified white candidate" lost out to a less experience minority.

He could argue that race wrongly trumped gender as the most sensitive qualifier.

He could force Obama to come out against affirmative action, a move that would risk alienating his biggest bloc of voters.

The more I read news coming from the states where Obama struggled lately, I see that being the big issue going forward since it dovetails into questions about the economy.

Thanks, Rezdog and Flatus for your comments on a regional primary system. The plan laid out on my blog is a work in progress. Jamie, you're right, the DNC and the RNC would have to go along with the shortened primary season. If nothing else, maybe a "shot across the bow" will provoke the "deciders" into doing something worthwhile and get beyond this "permanent campaign" mode we seem to be stuck in.

Obama's Choice of Insider Draws Fire

For Republicans seeking to tarnish Obama's image as a squeaky-clean outsider hoping to clean up Washington -- not to mention divert attention from questions about lobbyists working in Sen. John McCain's campaign -- Obama's embrace of Johnson has been a gift.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/10/AR2008061003475.html

Chloe,

If McCain picked Hillary Clinton for VP, for every Democratic vote he gained, he would lose 3 on the right.

The RNC would lose the money solicitation subject that brings them the most money.

HRC would become a castaway, a la Joe Lieberman and would tarnish not only her legacy, but further bring into question the legacy of her husband.

People could accept a third party run, not a Republican run. Too many view her as a political opportunist. That move would confirm that opinion.

Rez, I don't think Fry represents the Repug party although he admittedly is one. He tends to be a bit more open than most Repugs to some of the concerns of women who supported HRC. He differs from the party in that regard IMHO.

Pogo,

Originals

David Nelson - Guitars, Vocals
Buddy Cage - Pedal Steel (replaced Jerry Garcia)
Spencer Dryden - deceased (former drummer of Jefferson Airplane)
David Torbert - Bass (deceased)
John " Marmanduke" Dawson Acoustic Guitar & vocals
(retired with health problems)

Replacements:

Michael Falzarano (Hot Tuna) on guitar and vocals, Ronnie Penque (Stir Fried) on bass and vocals and Johnny Markowski (Stir Fried) on drums and vocals.

It is a great line up and nobody can get the sounds that Buddy Cage does out of the Emmons Custom Pedal Steel. He is possessed.

He tends to be a bit more open than most Repugs to some of the concerns of women who supported HRC.Posted by: pogo

I haven't heard any Republicans that have been as offensive to women as the Democrats have been.

The winds of change continue to blow across the US and especially here in New Mexico. This has been the windiest time I can ever remember in recent New Mexican weather...more tornadoes for the US this year than any other. And more "blow back" from the agent of change, BO. What is old is now new with him and he really selects some pathetic peeps for his campaign. Which again glaringly points out the fact that he is a politician just like the rest. Candidate of change, my ass! Recycled players...nothing new here.

Chloe, at least in this election, I have to agree. It has been despicable.

Bowman, sounds terrific - Hot Tuna was a great group. I guess I knew Spencer Dryden died, but didn't really remember that, and ididn't know he was with New Riders. They touring or just doing hit and miss gigs in the area?

Pogo,

IMHO I don't he represents the Democratic party either.

But if Obama does not pick her, Hillary still has a chance to become vice president. Think about it. Why wouldn't McCain consider her? They aren't that far apart politically.

I think a comment like this demonstrates how HRC did a good job moving to the center because when the campaign started she thought she had the primary won and she needed to focus on the general election. Ironically, she didn’t really hit her stride until she began drifting back to the left (where she is more comfortable) started speaking from her heart and adopted a more populist message. McCain (who is truly conservative) has always done a great job pretending to be more centrist than he is. To think John Kerry actually wanted him as VP demonstrates either (1) how good McCain has been disguising his political beliefs; (2) how dumb John Kerry is; or (3) both. Just because McCain supported broad Immigration reform, campaign finance reform and now mentions “global warming” in speeches does not make him a centrist.

McCain and Hillary are as far apart politically on the issues as two people can be. Try: War in Iraq; Roe v. Wade, Bush’s tax cuts, Emission standards, federal student loans; windfall profits tax. Anyone remember how McCain voted on Robert Bork”s nomination to the Supreme Court? How about Clarence Thomas?

Women for McCain Acrylic Coffee Mug (pink)
http://store.johnmccain.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=MGR2414

here is another take on some from the Trail Mix.

http://news.yahoo.com/edcartoons/robrogers

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

Pogo, typo, he doesn't.

DEV...I just wonder who is running Obama's brain?

INMHO, the dems have made a huge mistake in throwing the Clintons out of the party....everything non-Clinton in this run for the Prez.

Rez - he certainly doesn't, and doesn't claim to.

Bowman, speaking of Hot Tuna, I'm thinking about letting LP go to Jorma's Fur Peace Ranch next summer for a week or so to have the experience of meeting and working with one of the legendary classic rock guitarists. I think it would leave a lasting impression.

Prof Marcia,

I am in Orange County -- used to be the only Democrat here, now I guess I am one of the few Independents.

And yes Patsi,

it was a woman thing -- still is. Now that they don't have HRC to kick around anymore in the primaries, they have started in on how hard she is going to work for the man who stole her delegates and let his followers set the tone of misogyny -- and he didn't do anything to stop it -- he even flipped her off at one of his rallys -- but she has to be the good Democrat and now kill herself for him.

What about the work he has to do to win her supporters? Why is it all on her? First she was "likeable enough" -- now we have to monitor her every move and make sure that she works "hard enough"

Pogo,

Touring, this was their summer tour kickoff.

http://www.nrpsmusic.com/music/tour.html

You are in WVA right. Saturday night they play in Thomas, WVA (wherever that is.)

http://www.mountainstatebrewing.com/

Pogo,
It would have been more appropriate to say his opinion is not representative not him.

"Now that I think about it, how many people in politics during the effort to pass the ERA were Clinton or Obama supporters."

Bear, I can tell you a couple who only paid lip service: Gary Hart and Ralph Nader.

Rez, I'll buy that; I suppose at least here he does represent the republican party.

Bowman, cooollll!!! Thomas is in Canaan Valley - east of here, south of Oakland, MD, where if things work out I'll be Saturday night. It's about an hour south of there. I may have to go & take LP & Mrs. P.

Pogo,

I think that it would be a great experience for LP. That is the kind of thing that they will remember for life. My son Sam is also learning guitar and bass. He really wants to learn as many string instruments as possible. Mandolin & banjo are on his list. I take him to a big bluegrass festival every summer, he is 14 and loves it. Maybe we should take this thread off line.

Bear, you are being hyperbolic. Coat hangers? Sheesh! I do think Obama has a certain sexist arrogance, but he's not the kind of oinker Olberman or Matthews is.

To the extent race played in this contest: I knew there was a problem back when Larry O'Donnell started making the rounds saying if such and such didn't happen John Edwards should just bow out because he wouldn't want to be known as the person who damaged the chances of the first black presidential nominee. At that point, I knew that black dreams were going to trump women's dreams. And if you think that's a racist statement, so be it.

Chloe,

I doubt that someone who has been a loyal Democrat for several decades would consider running on the ticket with a Republican particularly in a losing Republican year. Hillary has said she will support and campaign for Sen. Obama and that is what she will do. Now how many of her supporters will be twiddling their thumbs on election day and in which states (as opposed to national numbers) is a whole other question.

On the VP vetting process: Mrs. Schlossberg is the only person he needs. Her instincts go directly to character, her love of the country is supreme and she is savvy. Beyond that a bureaucrat is needed to go over the details of association; that would be the job of Mr. Johnson.
But let me take this opportunity, at the near end of Craig’s blog (it's 9:00 AM in NM) to present this thought. In 1800 there was an overreaction to a perceived flaw in our election law. I think that a state, if it chose to do so could put the Presidential and Vice presidential candidates in separate columns on the ballot rather than voting for a slate. The effect in a close election would be to infuse a dialogue that would revisit the way we elect our leaders. There are many sides to the issue with regard to slates in general; two vs multiple party configurations; states rights and so forth. The greatest benefit would be to drop the level of acrimony and so, provide more of a focus on governing.

Bowman,

Looks doubtful for New Riders on Sunday - I'm not in a position to get the tickets, and they will go fast. MSB is a small brewpub and the clubs (I use the term broadly) fill up very quickly with the old hippies who live up ther and the bikers who ride there all summer.

I am sure LP would love it - plus JK has an acoustic emphasis now, and LP likes to toy with acoustic although he's mostly a shredder. I'll flip you an e-mail whenever I can get hooked into our system remotely.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/06/obama-vetter-not-worth-vetting.html#comment-100807

Key words:
Now that's brilliant, a party that can't loose, elects a candidate who can't win.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/06/obama-vetter-not-worth-vetting.html#comment-100846
"I think that a state, if it chose to do so could put the Presidential and Vice presidential candidates in separate columns on the ballot rather than voting for a slate."

If only

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/06/obama-vetter-not-worth-vetting.html#comment-100845

Jamie,
I know.

But these ideas are all that keep me caring at all about this election, in the last week.

Bowman - send me an e-mail and I can respond on my Crackberry. Let me know if you need the address.

Looks like the Clinton’s are up to their “old” politics. Doesn’t seem to me like a good way to get on the ticket. Who do they think they are, the Kennedy’s? No way and never will be. This election really changed my mind about them the way they have acted. Let’s see how they come through for the party unity and the men and women in Iraq and the ones who "will" be in Iran if McBush is elected. If only some of you who say you won't vote or who will vote for McBush had a loved one’s life at stake in a war it might make you think a little more about your decision and suck up your pride.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/06/11/1130831.aspx

Oh, and Bear, regarding affirmative action....you probably don't remember, but long ago I posted this story: just after South Carolina, when I was at Vandy Med Center one day for tests, I ran into a black guy I know and he and I laughed about the fact that I was voting gender and he was voting race. At that time, he was furious about the press and some others trying to twist the LBJ and Jesse Jackson comments into racism. He said what REALLY pissed him off was when his son's friends started talking about it, and they didn't even know who LBJ was.

But he said that what worried him most was that the press was starting to trash Hillary's campaign for being tough. He believed that both campaigns should be run just as if it was between two white men. And that by continually saying you shouldn't run a tough campaign, the press was going to inadvertantly turn Obama into not the "black candidate" but the "affirmative action" candidate.

Brain H...typically a candidate gets a bump from the nomination process in the polling, so what you are really telling me is that BO is not doing as well as expected in the polls. Not much of a bump and there is a lot of time until the election for the Obamas to 're-introduce' themselves to American like they planned. I think Mrs. Obama may pull down the numbers in the polls once the general public gets to know her.

For Veep, please consider Vallerie Plame. Here are 6 points to consider, suggested by Stuart Goldbarg, plus the seventh, which I added:

1. Ms Plame is brilliant. She has impressive degrees from respected institutions. She cures the percieved lack in foreign & defense policies, and makes mccain look like a man who learned about foreign relations in a torture chamber. Ms Plame has met foreign dignitaries all over the world, and particularly in the developing world, curing the deficiency we have suffered from in the highest government circles for 7 1/2 years.

2. Ms Plame can understand, and make herself understood with nuclear physicists and Pentagon generals.

3. Ms Plame has nerve. She already has experience in making critical decisions in matters that have the potential to determine life and death for millions.

Ms Plame, as our nation's top nuclear spy, has experience in maintaining a cool mind in the midst of dangers.

4. Ms Plame would admirably cure the Obama campaign's perceived gender gap among well-to-do, fifty-plus year old, white women.

5. Ms Plame is a walking rebuke to those republican subversives who sabotaged our nation's image abroad, and who stampeded us into a $TRILLION defeat in Iraq. She has one of the highest security clearences.

Her presence on the ticket would also invite a favorable comparison to the man who once made an anti-American propaganda video for the North Vietnamese Communists.

6. Ms Plame is a Democrat.

7. Ms Plame is telegenic.

The big Q is, can she campaign as hard as will be necessary?

Pogo,

I was talking with one of the guys that go around a tape these shows, mikes on tripods 800gig harddrive recorders... anyway, I have his e-mail and he is going to send me the website where all the tapers put this stuff up on the web. It is all free as along as you don't use the stuff for personal gain. I'll pass that info along when I get it. BTW, Hot Tuna is playing the same club I went to last nigh in a few weeks. Working on tickets for that show plus believe it or not Canned Heat is coming.

"To think John Kerry actually wanted him as VP demonstrates either (1) how good McCain has been disguising his political beliefs; (2) how dumb John Kerry is; or (3) both."

ROFL Tim...true.

I know many adore Caroline Kennedy....but what are her qualifications? Posted by: Blonde win

Since when does anyone care about qualifications in this election?

Karolena...what is so great about the Kennedys? I know JFKerry wanted so bad to be one...but, really, it is more the love of a dream than the whole clan being "better" than the average American? Smarter than the average American? They had their humble beginnings in bootlegging and amassed a fortune to buy their way into politics. I just don't get it.

Tim, the point isn't how far apart they are ideologically, but whether they can produce a consensus position that would be supported by great preponderance of Americans.

Such a product would necessarily have the sharp edges smoothed out.

"That said, I was mildly surprised by the Jim Johnson choice, mainly because of his connection with Fannie Mae and the outsized pay packages. Made for controversy."

Dog -- I believe all these politicians, including Bill and Hillary, are usually so far removed from the real world that they don't see those freight trains headed their way.

And that by continually saying you shouldn't run a tough campaign, the press was going to inadvertantly turn Obama into not the "black candidate" but the "affirmative action" candidate. Posted by: Patsi | June 11, 2008 11:20 AM

Patsi,
When you put it that way, no wonder he lost the "working class" voters.

Chloe...exactly! It is just politics as usual and everyone is treating BO like the space alien who arrives to save the planet from destruction. He is a politician like any politician. His campaign wants us to believe he is an agent of change, a different kind of politican...smoke and mirrors because it worked for Bush junior.

Bear

"If fervent dislike for Obama isn't in and of itself racist, why is the same dislike for Clinton then considered sexist?"

I believe that there is a percentage of those who voted for Sen. Clinton that did so due to either outright racism or at the edges discomfort with someone who did not appear to share their cultural condition (xenophobia more than racism).

I believe that there was a percentage of those who voted for Sen. Obama that did so because they were opposed to Sen. Clinton (or at least learned behavior to hate Bill Clinton) rather than a deeply ingrained misogyny.

What is scandalously obvious is that the major media was hideously misogynistic in their commentary and encouraged that kind of language and attitude in the supporters of Sen. Obama. If a similar set of adjectives or charges had been thrown at Sen. Obama, everyone would have been screaming "racism" at the top of their lungs.

The classic example given was the idiot with the "Iron my Shirts" sign had been holding one at an Obama gathering that read, "Shine My Shoes", it would not have been shown or the commentary would have been violently opposed rather than laughed off as it was with the shirt sign.

The low point with me was the commentator who talked about Hillary's "maniacal pursuit" of the Presidency just after commenting on Sen. Obama's "dedication to goals".

This coverage has been pushed by the Axelrod directed campaign if not the candidate himself and it has been as ugly and cruel as anything ever said about an AA candidate. So, yes the women who heard it clearest simply because we have heard it all before over the years are still really, really angry.

"..what is so great about the Kennedys? .... I just don't get it.
Posted by: Blonde wino | June 11, 2008 11:25 AM

I think one of the reason is because John and Robert were assassinated because they were serving this Country.

Regarding the smearing of Michele Obama:

Swift-boating Ms Obama could and should result in an utterly devastating counter-attack.

It is not in john mccain's or the republican party's best interests to invite a comparison to cindy mccain, the spoiled and adulterous junkie, who stole drugs from a charity, and who profits from the alcoholism of others.

Chloe -- That day at Vandy was the first time I seriously thought about the idea that the way the press acted about Obama was not just damaging to Hillary, but potentially for Obama as well.

Swift-boating Ms Obama could and should result in an utterly devastating counter-attack. Posted by: xrepublican

Is swift-boating and pointing out factual happenings, especially if it's MO actually talking and it's been recording, the same thing?

Patsi,
It turns out you were right.

Damn, Bowman, you must be in a time warp in NH. Canned heat? God, I figured they would all be dead by now. Send me an e-mail - I'm in the system now. Let em know if you need my address.

"America will learn what many of us already know"
Oh dear, Florence Nightengale, huh?
Posted by: Blonde wino

Blonde,
Just wishful thinking that won't come to pass.

Patsi,

"I don't know why you are bashing nwomen over this"

I'm not, you all have been bashed over the heads enough times. I'm very serious when I say this, I find it utterly reprehensible and disgusting how HRC was treated, not so much by the pond slime of the MSM as they will eat their own, not even so much by BHO's people you sort of expect that, but how she was constantly back stabbed by those who you would think would support her, her fellow Senators, the leadership of the D party, and especially the ones who the Clinton administration gave high level cabinet position to. I was really caught off guard by Richardson's sudden switch from her to BHO. But the reason behind that maybe because Richardson's and BHO position on illegal immigrants are pretty much on the same track. I know HRC gave a speech this past Saturday giving her full support behind BHO, but the Clinton's have long memories, they don't forget, and they don't forgive. Here is a play-off on a Hells Angels acronym, G.F.C.D. It's meaning: Gods Forgives, Clintons Don't.. Here is also good article to support that statement..
.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/06/11/america/11clinton.php

1984 was the first presidential election I was eligible to vote in, and since I was in the middle of going to college and working, I never learned much about Mondale's campaign staff, and never knew much about Johnson. You've given me much food for thought, Craig.

Yeah, I know Fry. You've been bummed out by the sexist crap all along. Actually, I know several Republican men here in TN who feel the same way.

Michelle Obama in the hot seat

They loved to hate Hillary Rodham Clinton. They loved to hate Teresa Heinz Kerry. And now, it appears, conservative voices are energetically taking on Michelle Obama.
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-michelle11-2008jun11,0,3978235.story?page=1

Tim, the point isn't how far apart they are ideologically, "but whether they can produce a consensus position that would be supported by great preponderance of Americans.

Such a product would necessarily have the sharp edges smoothed out." Posted by Flatus

I would agree with you in some cases, but the point I was responding to was the assertion that McCain and HRC are not that far apart politically. I think they are. :->

"..what is so great about the Kennedys? .... I just don't get it.
Posted by: Blonde wino | June 11, 2008 11:25 AM

I think one of the reason is because John and Robert were assassinated because they were serving this Country.

Posted by: chloe | June 11, 2008 11:32 AM

Totally on the spot Chloe.
That is exactly where the adoration stems from. Nothing more, nothing less.
I have no admiration at all for the Kennedy´s, never have, never will.
Maybe I was brought up differently but mom and dad told me very different things about the Kennedy´s.... And I I´ll stick to that wisdom.

Chloe...I believe Mrs. BObama is a weak link, but she will soon become the champion of the young and sick...we will all stick to the talking points of the BO campaign...like good democrats.

Pogo,

I guess I do need that e-mail address.

I find it interesting that Jim Johnson, head of Sen Obama's VP selection team, is the man who brought us Geraldine Ferraro.
And Geraldine Ferraro, in turn, was one of a very few persons to point out that, had Sen Obama been a white guy with the same resume, no one would suggest that he was ready to run for President. In fact, Sen Obama himself -- when first elected -- stated that he did not have the experience to become President. He also said that, had it not been for his unique background, he doubted very much that he could have gotten the book deal that enabled the Obama family to do so well financially. (Although Mrs Obama was already bringing in a substantial income at that time).

It's too bad that this campaign became all about race and gender ... but what else could we have expected?

"...she was constantly back stabbed by those who you would think would support her, her fellow Senators, the leadership of the D party, and especially the ones who the Clinton administration gave high level cabinet position to...."
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/06/obama-vetter-not-worth-vetting.html#comment-100883

Total betrayal. And this has become about the party now, more than anything else.

Regarding Richardson's betrayal, if he switched sides because of sharing Obama's position on illegal immigrants, why didn't he say so. Instead, he came out and said the Clinton's have always felt "entitled" and spoke of them as though he hated them. What was that about. Doesn't loyalty count for anything anymore?

...we will all stick to the talking points of the BO campaign...like good democrats. by: Blonde wino | June 11, 2008 11:58 AM

Not me.

Regarding the swift-boating of MO, again:

if republicans don't want to see cindy's rap sheet and the 1st Mrs McCain's pix on the tube 100 times a day during their convention in St. Paul, they should rein in their rabid dogs and tie up their loose cannons.

New group out there made up of many groups who oppose Obama: justsaynodeal.com

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7S2-AQx-TM

t's too bad that this campaign became all about race and gender ... but what else could we have expected?
Posted by: maggisd June 11, 2008 12:01 PM

And if we go on and vote as though this didn't happen, we'll keep getting the same thing.

Dooty

Now that cartoon is FUNNY!!!

It pretty well explains Sen. Obama's whole situation. In any other year, this would be a problem. This year, it will depend upon where they are located. This has all the earmarks of a total landslide for the Democrats. It could very well be true that he doesn't need the hardline Clinton supporters unless they happen to be residing in battleground states.

If the hardliners are in Michigan, Florida, rust belt states etc. ... Obama is in trouble no matter how bad McCain seems to be. If, OTOH, they are in states such as Washington where I live, it will make no difference at all since WA will be sparkling blue short of the discovery that Sen. Obama is an alias for Jack The Ripper.

I have the greatest respect for Bobby and Jack Kennedy. The reality is that both, because of their untimely deaths are frozen in time. We see them at the height of their potential, but the story was never able to play out completely. We simply do not know how Viet Nam would have developed (better or worse) had JFK lived. And had JFK lived, Bobby's path could have been vastly different. I think that we have projected our wishes and hopes on their legacy but had they lived history may have rendered a different judgement depending on how events might have played out.

Patsi,
"bummed out by the sexist crap"

That is part of it, the other part is the total lack of loyalty towards the Clinton's for all they have accomplished on behalf of the and for the D party. HRC and Saint Sebastien have a lot in common. They may have a lot of arrows protruding from their body, they may look dead, but they're not. G.F.C.D.

chloe: I am amazed to hear that Richardson switched sides because Obama shared his POV on illegal immigrants. Which POV was that? The first one or the second one? And, that being the case, why not support Sen McCain? or President Bush, for that matter?

if republicans don't want to see cindy's rap sheet and the 1st Mrs McCain's pix on the tube 100 times a day during their convention in St. Paul, they should rein in their rabid dogs and tie up their loose cannons.
Posted by: xrepublican | June 11, 2008 12:08 PM

That sounds like a threat.
Do threats work in politics?

Craig, I was working on the Mondale campaign in Seattle and we were there watching the second debate and I remember one of the paid staffers, I think he was the "numbers" guy, polls and all that... he said "Oh OH, they *got* to him". Because Mondale looked tired and weak then. He reacted to Reagan's criticism of so much face make-up, that they reduced it to the point where he had these droopy dark circles under his eyes. It was truly a lackluster performance. Still, I was young and thought we would win! LOL

Jamie: I agree with you totally ... I can't see any scenario under which Sen Obama either 1) wins my county or 2) doesn't win my state. Therefore, my vote is immaterial to the larger picture.

Chloe: I certainly intend to vote in a way that might send a message.

I sent a better message to the young man who called from the DNC last night, asking for money. He was totally unaware of the weighted delegate situation and seemed very interested. I also expressed to him that this whole Washington lobbyist crap was just that ... meaningless crap. We then had a great discussion about Jesse Unruh, the garment district, and other topics of mutual interest.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/06/obama-vetter-not-worth-vetting.html#comment-100907

Maggi,
I actually think Richardson was for Obama from the get-go.
He was just too much of a coward to admit it. Remember in Iowa, when the Richardson voters (after achieving less than 15% in their group) were told they had instructions from headquarters to go over to support Obamas? He denied it, but I heard first hand (on tv, anyway) that's what happened.

Obama did get his wife a $200k raise by trying to set aside and earmark for the hospital where she works.

He was totally unaware of the weighted delegate situation and seemed very interested. I also expressed to him that this whole Washington lobbyist crap was just that ... meaningless crap.
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/06/obama-vetter-not-worth-vetting.html#comment-100911

Maggi,
Keep educating them.
Every little bit helps.

Chloe,

"Doesn't loyalty count for anything anymore?"

Apparently not.

"Doesn't loyalty count for anything anymore?"
Apparently not.
Posted by: FryDaddy

Fry, and if we haven't figured that out yet, we never will.

Chloe,

Not a threat, just sound advise.

If mccain has no more sense than to toss away the woman who loved him and waited years for his return, just to hook up with cindy, then can we trust him to make ANY sound decisions?

If I were still a republican, I would be shaking in my boots everytime the wino and others of her style allege that there are recordings of MO speaking in a provocative manner.

And, if mccain has no more sense than to allow this sort of sly smear to continue, then he will deserve the worst shellacking since Washington beat Pinckney.

Obama did get his wife a $200k raise by trying to set aside and earmark for the hospital where she works.: anon

Always looking out for the family.

xrepublican,

Sorry, but it still sounds like a threat to me.

Must go to work....I have the talking points....go dems.

chloe: What I found interesting was that the gentleman was African-American (I just asked ... why not?) and, because of the fact that he lived in a typical CA mixed-ethnic community, he twigged immediately to the fact that his own vote was not subject to weighting. I went through the whole thing and we had a good talk about what prodigious work Rev Jackson had done in registering Democratic voters, particularly in majority-black areas and he said, "But still...."
My position was that I was a strong supporter of Affirmative Action, but that I didn't think it belonged in the voting booth ....
Of course, if we didn't have weighted delegates, the primary results would have been even closer than they were ....

" Still, I was young and thought we would win! LOL"

Tom -- I still remember the stunned feeling when McGovern went down in flames. I truly believed he'd win, because Watergate was already 0bviously tied to Nixon.

Maybe I was brought up differently but mom and dad told me very different things about the Kennedy´s.... And I I´ll stick to that wisdom. Posted by: Jason | June 11, 2008 11:57 AM

Well Jason, one thing is obvious. If you're any indication of your parents, they deserve to be listened to. And taken seriously.

Sadly the bill never made it through the Senate and the hospital did not get the funding

a bill? you are a stupid fuck. It was an earmark for a million bucks. That is not a bill.

Sh got the $200k anyway. Stop trying to rewrite history to suit your lies.

MSNBC seems to be operating on the theory that the majority of their audience are dumber than a box of rocks.

This weeks question, "Will putting Hillary on the ticket help win the election?" Text 1 for yes, Text 2 for No 622639, standard rates apply.

Let's see. The majority of hard core Clinton supporters are women over 40. The majority of Obama supporters are under 35. Which group is likely to be more comfortable sending a text message or paying for it?

Anyone care to guess how this poll with turn out?

Patsi, Tom: I have to chuckle at both your posts. I think after JFK was assassinated and I was "forced" to vote for that Old Pol LBJ, I never again looked at politics the same way.
I voted for McGovern and for Mondale and never expected either of them to win ... the only time my hopes were actually dashed was in 2000 ... and again this year.

xrepub -- I don't like McCain's politics, but that divorce isn't one of the things I judge him on. First of all, I wasn't privvy to the inside details. For all I know the wife was running around while he was a prisoner. (Not saying she was, but just saying I wasn't there.) But I do know that people came back changed from that war, even when they hadn't gone through what McCain did. And I don't care what he signed or said after torture. I'd have signed something a helluva lot faster than he did.

People's marriages are their own deal, not mine.

Sorry for the f-bomb please delete if appropriate

“Karolena...what is so great about the Kennedys? I know JFKerry wanted so bad to be one...but, really, it is more the love of a dream than the whole clan being "better" than the average American?”

Well, if you watched the movie “Bobby” you saw a true Kennedy and the caring a politician can show towards real people. Those were real footages of him in that movie and I don’t believe even a Repug could deny that he showed and gave real feelings. I actually cried when I watched it. I don’t give a rat’s ass about what brought the Kennedy’s their money. After all, Weathervane McBush is sitting and living on brewery wealth from his wife, if that means anything. Wonder how many old wealthy today amassed that wealth by “humble beginnings”? Do the Bushes come to mind?

If you have ever read ANYTHING about any of the Kennedy’s, they were all brought up to serve in one way or another. Teddy Kennedy has been responsible for much in the Senate that has helped the poor and downtrodden. They are ALL better than most politicians, IMO, even with the sex involved. I actually had no problem with BJ Clinton because of the sex. It was only until he started mouthing off during the campaign that I grew to dislike him. Hopefully, after he reviews his “hit” list he can get back to things as usual.

If anyone has read about Eunice Shriver’s life, even at her advanced age today, she is still giving. Maria Shriver Schwarzenegger once said on a television program that “no one is ever caught sitting on the couch when mother comes to visit”. They were taught there is always something to be done.

FryDaddy:

AAs have been the most loyal bloc of Democratic voters since the time they were lawfully permitted to vote. This loyalty has been rewarded through our primary voting process. The dreaded weighted delegate system.

Yes , loyalty counts for something.

a bill? you are a stupid fuck. It was an earmark for a million bucks. That is not a bill.
Posted by: anonymous | June 11, 2008 12:35 PM

Bravo!

At the same ages -even considering inflation the Obama's are making a lot more than the Clinton's did.

Of course the Rezko connection made the 2 million dollar house possible too.

Well, Chloe, I guess your ears are just tuned to hear everything as threats either or betrayals.

This entire conversation has questioned whether Obama can win.

In the face of mccain's habit of balling out aides in public, talking nonsense that he has to retract, supporting the Iraq fiasco, supporting the bush plan to deficit spend and then pay off the huge pile of debts with inflated dollars, and ticking off Evangelicals at every opportunity, the big Q is, can he even break 40%?

Maggi -- Yes...2000 was a bitter pill to swallow. When that Supreme Court decision came down I thought my head would explode. I still remember at that Christmas dinner, when one of my best men friends casually said he'd voted for Bush and that he thought he was a "good ol' Texas boy"..... my son said, "Uh oh....check please," then got up from the table and took his plate into the living room!

It wouldn't be presidential election if the Dems didn't find yet another way to shoot themselves in the foot, and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory... yet again.

It's a modern day American tradition.

does old joe kennedy count in this "great kennedy" thing? You remember, the guy who helped pass prohibition so he and his underworld friends and colleagues could rake in the mega-bucks, so that still today sales of scotch make money for kennedy's?

as far as michelle.....she is now in the media and pundit crosshairs.....their ultimate aim was always to ditch hillary so mccain would have a chance......ask yourself who General Electric wants for president.......

xrepublican: I continue to believe that a substantial number of Republican "insiders" are hoping and praying that McCain will not win.
I honestly think the far right and the evangelical power brokers think that four years of a Democratic President who makes bold promises and a Democratic Congress hampered by the Blue Dogs will not be able to deliver on anything .... it is not the Clintons aiming for 2012 (they are both sad because they know the Dems don't give out second chances) but the GOP.

BTW, here is a good thing about Sen McCain. Rev James Dobson of Focus on the Family, who vowed never to vote for McCain, sent out a call to the McCain Campaign for a talk or a meeting ... as of yesterday, Sen McCain has not returned his call.

" I actually had no problem with BJ Clinton because of the sex."

Obviously you did because you always use the BJ initials....

and xpub -- ROFL! Does McCain actually "ball" his aides in public?

Whew, I have stuff to do. Blonde wino... no no no My point as resdog pointed out and Chloe noted, was wishful historical musing. Forgive me for trying to discuss democracy in the same post that I mentioned a Kennedy. Bushcaine and Huck are so above the fray.

.....their ultimate aim was always to ditch hillary so mccain would have a chance......ask yourself who General Electric wants for president....... by: sturgeone | June 11, 2008 12:48 PM

Even MSNBC? I know GE owns them, but are you kidding. You think they're going to desert Obama now?

xpub...I think you mean "bawling out"....

t wouldn't be presidential election if the Dems didn't find yet another way to shoot themselves in the foot, and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory... yet again.
It's a modern day American tradition.Posted by: garypen

Sad, but true.

a) The polling numbers during the primary season were not reliable.

b) The wording of polling questions skews the outcome.

c) At this point, I would not put it past the MSM to manipulate questions, the folks who are sampled and the actual outcome to look exactly the way they want it to look...which is pro-BO.

Don't buy the lie! Women are not falling in line behind BO. It's a half-baked attempt at a Jedi mind-trick. The MSM thinks that if they put out enough info that women are moving to BO, we will actually do just that. Hil'ry will not be able to persuade many of us to vote for BO; he is a poor choice to hold office.

DNC - Those who fail to learn from history are destined to repeat it.

Well, Chloe, I guess your ears are just tuned to hear everything as threats either or betrayals. Posted by: xrepublican Author Profile Page | June 11, 2008 12:42 PM

Gee, I wonder why?

An open question to all supporters of Sen Obama:

And I really want to know -- why does Sen Obama never mention LBJ among the pantheon of great Democratic Presidents? And why, conversely, does he always mention Harry Truman, who was arguably the man who laid the foundation for an America endlessly at war?

Sayonara all...
Almost 7 in the evening. I am dead tired

Keep it civilized

Hey all! Looks like things are heating up early today...

Maggi, don't hold your breath.

“Obviously you did because you always use the BJ initials....”

Isn’t his name William (for Bill or “B”) Jefferson (for “J”) Clinton?

Hey all! Looks like things are heating up early today...
Posted by: Politics of Utopia | June 11, 2008 1:01 PM

As Hillary says: "We're just getting warmed up".

as far as michelle.....she is now in the media and pundit crosshairs.....their ultimate aim was always to ditch hillary so mccain would have a chance......ask yourself who General Electric wants for president.......
Posted by: sturgeone | June 11, 2008 12:48 PM

Sturgeon, I hope you're going to elaborate.
Don' know much about it and I really am interested.
Do you think we'll notice a difference now?

Here's a link to a story on CNN's Political Ticker about McCain's green monster; ignore the article, the funny stuff is in the video that's linked at the bottom:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/06/11/after-bad-press-mccain-goes-back-to-town-halls/

BlueINDallas: There is nothing that Sen Clinton could say that would convince me to vote for Sen Obama -- unless it was "I accept the nomination for Vice President" ... and even then I'd have to think about it.

As I've said before...I supported her, I voted for her, I even contributed to her, but she does not own my vote and cannot direct me to vote for Sen Obama. Nor can anyone scare me with the Supreme Court ... there will be 58 votes on the Democratic side of the Senate come January 2009, plus the two ladies from Maine, Gordon Smith of Oregon and [one hopes] Arlen Spector from PA. Plenty of votes to signal a President McCain (although I don't expect him to win) that he will have to compromise on judicial appointments.

chloe......not much elaboration needed..... GE owns msnbc......msnbc and nbc both united internally to crush hillary.......now all that remains is watch and see.....yes, I happen to think they will wind up crushing obama or attempting to.....but we will be able to see it on the tv either way.......

Maggie

Pfleger

a) The polling numbers during the primary season were not reliable.
b) The wording of polling questions skews the outcome.
c) At this point, I would not put it past the MSM to manipulate questions, the folks who are sampled and the actual outcome to look exactly the way they want it to look...which is pro-BO.
Posted by: blueINdallas | June 11, 2008 12:55 PM

Blue, a. Obama always polled higher than he actually was.
b, c. I started distrusting those polls early on. They were too radical, depending on who was doing them. They can easily be slanted by changing the questions and the way they are asked. Newsweek polls were alway the worst.

"Isn’t his name William (for Bill or “B”) Jefferson (for “J”) Clinton?"

But that's not why you use that moniker. You have done nothing but trash both Clintons for every possible reason real or imagined.

gotta go.

and chloe......as for the segue to trashing obama ......it will be slow and seemingly seamless, almost unnoticeable, perhaps.....and they'll have to leave KO in place as is, of course............but look at the rest of them, save Mika of the sighs, faces and breathless "Yessss"es......

Chloe: Indeed, the periodic polling done in conjunction with most of the MSM outlets always seemed very far out from the tracking polls and the local polls.
I've been polled a number of times in the last years (I think you get on a list or something) and found that a great many of the questions (beyond who I'm going to vote for) are just not answerable. The polltakers are required to push you to make a selection, no matter how inapt the choices are ... and I think it skews the results.

when referring to someone by their initials it's not customary to combine the nickname initial with the middle name initial.......that i know of.......

bowman, it's larry dot chafin at steptoe hyphen johnson dot com.

no one wants to take up for old Joe? Boss Kennedy?

lol

Gov. Strickland said, “Absolutely not. If drafted I will not run, if nominated I will not accept and if elected I will not serve. So, I don’t know how more crystal clear I can be.”

Pretty tough message. Party Unity? Sounds more like it's coming from the new PUMA group.

Jamie: I know what you mean about texting. I know how to do it as well but ... #1, have a plan that charges for texting outside the "circle" and #2, just find it to be a giant pain in the a**
The other consideration is that, given the viewership of any of the cable news networks, how many people are they reaching anyway? For MSNBC we probably know now the views of the average MSNBC viewer which, by now, includes no one who is not for Obama.

sturgeone: As to your notion that MSNBC will soon start trashing Obama ... as soon as I see a guest pundit or commentator who is anything other than either neutral or very far left, I'll start to accept that analysis.

"Nor can anyone scare me with the Supreme Court .."

Maggi,
why do you and most others here only look at the SC in light of the abortion issue. For me, that is the last thought on my mind. I worry more about State rights in general and other right leaning decisions.

maggi.......that would be the wise way to approach it, of course.......eyes wide open..........

I remember when letterman did one of his bits on his show where he goes in somewhere with a cameraman.............he went into the lobby of the General Electric offices there in NYC and was very rudely greeted by some very secret service looking chaps who obviously were not prepared for the silly comedian's bid for humor.......they summarily with little fanfare tossed him out on his ear...........no sense of humor.

Posted by: Karolenna | June 11, 2008 1:01 PM

I think you didn't send in your photo because you don't show up on film

Rezdog: In fact, I don't look at the Supreme Court entirely in light of the abortion issue. That, however, is the current unity mantra coming from the Democratic Party ... as if the only thing we old, white, downstream women cared about.
There are many issues that concern me ... many decisions I do not like ... the way the time limit for bringing an EOC action was re-written, the denial of parts of the Violence against Women statute, etc .... these things, however, can be fixed by the Congress. Efforts to fix them so far have been filibustered ... and I no longer hear anyone talking about them.
On the other hand, the Supemes did good in directing the EPA to go back to the drawing board on carbon emissions ... problem is, they just refuse to do it.

Patsi,

Yes, 'bawling' out. Must have been a fraudian sloop.

Regarding the torture excuse:

mccain may have cracked under torture, others didn't. Some who did were later court-martialed. mccain was promoted. I might feel differently had he been an enlisted man.

Regarging the guys who came back:

Most of the men I knew over there drank and swore too much for a year or two after they came back, but were otherwise similar to the men who stayed home. If we must make excuses for mccain's bad behavior toward his first wife, perhaps we can lay that to torture. However, I still don't like it.

It seems to me that if public education, reproductive rights, social security, energy independence, global warming, the sex slave trade, and the endless defeat in Iraq do not supply sufficient incentive to vote for Obama, then the carpers are merely fanatic members of a cult of personality, rather than genuine supporters of women's and human rights.

I do not blame people for feeling hurt after pouring their time, money, energy, and love into a campaign, but when will it be time to lick wounds, put away vengeful thoughts, forgive, and make the better world?

OK then why did NPR press him when they knew his answer all along.

Patsi,

I was just getting caught up on your earlier replies. Certainly some food for thought. I was your during the ERA period so I never really learned what it was all about. All I do remember were my great school teachers saying that a snowball in hell had a better chance...

Fry, while the Clinton's don't forget, the same can be said for most Democrats.

What they don't forget is how many seats the Clinton's cost them in Congress, including a sitting Speaker of the House.

They don't forget the best economic period of their lifetimes being spoiled because of poisonous climate that surrounded him.

Lastly, this political race reminded me of a Sit & Go poker tournament. Obama proved that he was the player who could function best with a short stack and a monster stack...that's why he won.

If the candidates had to do it over again, would you cry foul if Axelrod ran Clinton's campaign?

Maggi said:
sturgeone: As to your notion that MSNBC will soon start trashing Obama ... as soon as I see a guest pundit or commentator who is anything other than either neutral or very far left, I'll start to accept that analysis.

sturgeone says: scarborough, carlson, matthews, andrea mitchell........just for starters. any others?

xrepublican: I have seen that assertion about some POWs being court martialled for giving in to torture. I lived through that time and do not remember any of the Vietnam POWs being court martialled. Could you provide some references?
Also, divorce is not that uncommon in Navy families. Even short deployments can cause people to grow apart.
I really don't get this obsession with the personal lives of others ... we blame Hillary because she didn't divorce Bill, but in turn blame Sen McCain because of his divorce from the first Mrs McCain. When none of us knows jack**** about anyone else's marriage.

gosh, I left out Patrick J. Buchanan

Maggie,

I am curious to know which seats the Dems will pick up in the Senate to get to the 58 you suggest and in spite of an Obama loss.

Also, are you factoring in Lieberman's inevitable switch to the Republican party/caucus in that number? I think that if the Dems increase their majority, their first order of business will be to yank his chairmanship and tell him to F off...

maggs, don't waste your time, and jamie, you know better. :-)

anonymous, a less obtuse nickname might be a good idea. but that's your decision.

When Strickland said those same words months ago they did not come across as rough as they do now. The way this election ended up, these words now can mean a whole different thing. He was a Hillary supporter! Everything today has a new meaning to it. I agree he did not want to be VP before and he still does not. But today he should of used better words to say the same thing.

sturg - snicker.

Bear: As it now stands, Dems will pick up NM, CO, NH, VA, -- unless there is a total collapse.
Also now with leads in Alaska, Mississippi (not Cochran's seat, the old Trent Lott seat), Kentucky.

The last three are more problematic, of course, but note that the list doesn't include Minnesota where Franken and Coleman are neck and neck.

I doubt seriously that Sen Lieberman will change his caucus unless forced to do so. Aside from war issues, he continues to vote solidly Democratic and has always maintained that he is, at heart, a Democrat and will continue to be one. In fact, Sen Lieberman votes with the Dems far more regularly than Sen Landrieu and one or two others.

BinNYC,

If you hold the people posting here in such low regard, why do you bother to post here? Is it to elevate the conversation? If so, you are failing miserably.

vadaryl: I am curious as to why you think Gov Strickland should have used different words in his statement? He has only just become Governor after years and years of GOP control of Ohio ... maybe he wants everyone to take his name off their list so he can get on with being Governor.

maggs, don't waste your time, and jamie, you know better. :-)
anonymous, a less obtuse nickname might be a good idea.
Posted by: pogo Author Profile Page | June 11, 2008 1:49 PM

Good to see someone is trying to keep some order here.

..."I just want to shut my eyes and not see the places I've been. I'm weary".
Brad Pitt, Sleepers

msnbc........the network who fired phil donahue, the father of daytime talk television, when he was the highest rated show on their little big time farce......and what happened to Amy Robach? Did she not fit in with the departure from semi-journalism to overt candidate bashing?

sturgeone: I agree with you about overt candidate bashing ... it's just that I don't see that Obama will be the bashee. My initial observation is that KO has already started trashing Sen McCain, often with remarks taken out of context and downright misrepresentations.

And I really want to know -- why does Sen Obama never mention LBJ among the pantheon of great Democratic Presidents? And why, conversely, does he always mention Harry Truman, who was arguably the man who laid the foundation for an America endlessly at war?
I’ll take a stab at it, although BHO doesn’t confide in me.
LBJ will never be considered among the pantheon of great democratic presidents because he is inextricably connected with the disaster known as Vietnam. I’m not saying this is fair, but when you hear the initials LBJ you do not think of great accomplishments like Medicare or the Civil Rights act, you think of Vietnam. So BHO would rather not conjure up that image.
Truman’s name is generally mentioned when discussing Presidents who could make tough decision, and spoke in plain terms.

maggi......as i said, KO will stay the same......but all you have to ask yourself is who does GE want in office.....GE gets lots of money out of war materials and such......and watch......and what the hell.......maybe GE has high hopes for obama.......

"high hopes"...............ie, deals have been made.......

GE really won't care since it would simply mean switching from war footing to "green" energy production. It is just a matter of which division will gear up while the other gears down. As long as the government contracts keep coming, the money remains the same.

Tim: Like all Presidents, both men made decisions that turned out well and others that turned out poorly. It does seem to me, however, that a black man living in America ought to at least acknowledge the President whose political courage created the type of change without which he (that candidate) might never have risen to the position he now holds, let alone the one to which he aspires.
Both men can be considered heroes in the Civil Rights of this country ... both men took actions which were injurious to their own future and that of the Democratic Party .... and both men deserve praise.

As someone who's lived a very long time, I find it more than annoying that the presumptive nominee of the Democratic Party wants so badly to turn the page that he can praise Ronald Reagan and yet fail to mention (even in passing) the accomplishments of a single Democratic President since JFK.

jamie.......the beautiful part is that we shall see.......

but there's no money like war money.......

Jamie: Right you are. Now that so much of the production capacity in this country (such as it is) rests in the hands of such a limited number of corporations, it really doesn't matter to GE who is in power. They'll get along.

"getting along" is no where near as amusing as GOBS of LOOSE CASH

Maggi,

Hmm. I was repeating something I read and trusted. I will see if I can research it and get back to you on that tomorrow. I have to run in a 15 minutes. Sorry.

Re the mccain's tawdry family life: hardly anyone cares about the candidates' marriages, except the Evangelicals mccain needs to win and I. The Evangelicals only care because there is a proper order for doing things: file the papers first and shack up later. I only care about it because I believe character counts and pledges matter. The mistake Democrats tend to make is assuming that the rest of the electorate has their laissez faire attitude toward spouses, family, sex, and betrayal. To me, mccain's smart-ass attitude, red propaganda, betrayal of his first wife, dealings with Charles Keating, and distemper when people disagree with him, all point to an unhealthy egocentricity, an attitude that says, I'll do things MY way, to satisfy MYurges, and the hell with everybody.

xrepublican: My observation is that Sen McCain, as a younger man, behaved much like the typical Navy fighter pilot. Or the typical politician ... or the typical powerful man in almost any line of work.

"Jamie: I know what you mean about texting. I know how to do it as well but ... #1, have a plan that charges for texting outside the "circle" and #2, just find it to be a giant pain in the a**." maggisd

You can text online too. It's much faster, easier and is free. Very handy if the person you are trying to reach can only be reached on his/her phone.

http://www.txt2day.com/

he behaved like a spoiled brat schmuck......which he still does with obviously enforced fences......such as after 2000 and SC........

cs, I swing from trying to keep order to trying to disrupt it.

"It dont mean a thing if you ain't got that swing"

--Duke Ellington

cs, I swing from trying to keep order to trying to disrupt it.

Posted by: pogo Author Profile Page | June 11, 2008 2:28 PM

Well, rest assured. You're doing a good job.

cs, by not limiting myself to one or the other, I find it hard to fail. Of course, whether I'm succeeding in what I'm trying to accomplish rather than what I'm trying to avoid at any given time is my little secret.

Gotta make a trip to the auto parts store before it gets too hot to function ... Cya all

sturg, I hope I always have THAT swing.

“Karolenna doesn't give a damn about anything but skin color.“

So do you think I’m prejudiced against white women? I am a white woman. I just prefer the half white/half black male who is running. It is my prerogative.

Tim,

When I think of LBJ, this is what I think of,

http://1heckofaguy.com/2007/04/19/its-lyndon-johnson-on-the-line/

Scroll down to where it says punk...

How many unvetted vetters does it take to vet?

None, he has stepped down

I think you didn't send in your photo because you don't show up on film
--anonymous

now, that's funny!!

Democrats! Always cutting off their nose to spite their face, which many women and wussy men will probably do this time as well!!!

Galatians 6:7 says “A man reaps what he sows”.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdGyR9bXsGE

karolenna......which you've been doing since the primaries started with your borderline pathological hatred of hillary.........lol

does that make you a" wussy female"?

Wussy men????

no....i guess the opposite would be a "penissy" female..........

karolena, are you suggesting a nose harvest by democrats this year?

Okay , everybody...Let's MAN UP!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpM4G20Ltpk

"fanatic members of a cult of personality"

ROFL, xpub....yeah, I'm familiar with that type.

more great news on the crude oil front.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/12/business/worldbusiness/12oil.html?hp=&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1213208610-p19aPrY5jCX1eAgcHozCAw

not.

"fanatic members of a cult of personality"

Doesn't this describe the Hillary fraction here on Trail Mix?

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

And we're supposed to wanna join these people???

yeah, but..................

Mr Johnson stepping down from the vetting VP position only kept BHO from saying .. "That's not the Johnson I knew".

I'm back, did you all miss me? I know it's only been 3 hours :-) But seriously, things have gotten bad when someone on the edge has to start quoting bible versions to make a political point. Oy vey !!

Re: the Kennedys. They have done many wondering public service things, but the family itself was/is basically shit. Jackie Kennedy saw that even when she was married to John and after John was dead, the only one she trusted and wanted to talk with was John's father Joe. Jackie was incensed by how Ted treated Joan and she also saw first hand how messed up the Kennedy boys were. She was DETERMINED that her children would not be raised that way and for that reason she took the kids and raised them where they would be out of the influence and control of the Kennedy dynasty.

This is NOT to say there are not wonderful Kennedy family members! I would count Maria Schriver, Bobby Kennedy Jr., Kathleen Kennedy Townsend, and although he had his share of problems, Rep. Patrick Kennedy has certainly been working hard for disadvantaged Americans. Ted Kennedy has been a strong liberal his whole time in the U.S. Senate. His extracurricular escapades were certainly things Jackie did not want to see passed down to Caroline and John Jr.

So this is all my opinion anyway, but I think the Kennedys have done much good as public servants and a LOT of bad things in private lives... more than normal. Perhaps that comes with the entitlement of wealth? I don't know. I admired Jackie so much that I tend to see the Kennedys through her eyes: as out-of-control "boys".

Oh and Karolenna, since you are quoting scripture there is a pesky little verse that basically says "Judge not, lest ye be Judged"... Think about it... Heck we all judge, but usually those of us tossing it don't use bible quotes at the same time we are stirring the "sh*t"

"fanatic members of a cult of personality"

Doesn't this describe the Hillary fraction here on Trail Mix?

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

Posted by: yo soy Horsedooty! | June 11, 2008 2:59 PM

Did you mean "faction" or are you doing mathematics?

Oh no! I just read a text message from a friend at work. A friend of mine named Chris died. She had been battling breast cancer. I just saw her at work a few nights ago. I don't understand. I thought she was in remission.

ptsd

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

It's in the holy book, so it must be true.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/11/obama-vp-vetter-johnson-r_n_106553.html

Corey,

If you are going to man up with LL Cool J, man up with this song instead...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBYJ0QhIPEw

"As someone who's lived a very long time, I find it more than annoying that the presumptive nominee of the Democratic Party wants so badly to turn the page that he can praise Ronald Reagan and yet fail to mention (even in passing) the accomplishments of a single Democratic President since JFK. "

Maggi -- Well said. Exactly what I feel.

Pogo where was the original post re: "fanatic members of a cult of personality"?

"As someone who's lived a very long time, I find it more than annoying that the presumptive nominee of the Democratic Party wants so badly to turn the page that he can praise Ronald Reagan and yet fail to mention (even in passing) the accomplishments of a single Democratic President since JFK. "

Well said, Maggi. Exactly what I feel.

(hope this only posts once, it first said "error")

Wes Clark on mccain:

Resume aside, though, Clark also took issue with the Arizona Republican's instincts on national security. "McCain's weakness is that he's always been for the use of force, force and more force. In my experience, the only time to use force is as a last resort. ... When he talks about throwing Russia out of the G8 and makes ditties about bombing Iran, he betrays a disrespect for the office of the presidency."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/11/gen-clark-mccain-is-untes_n_106457.html

Hey Bear... you got a nice pic on the Trailmixers video. I expected you to be gruff, bearded and large (like a teddy bear would be). Man you look nothing like I expected. Oh and you look healthy, are you doing better?

Tom

eurotom,

easiest way to find that is to put what you are looking for in your google toolbar and press the highlight key...

Ok re: Google... I am just trying to find out who first referenced it here in this blog today. LOL... having a hard time finding it.

NEW THREAD

That picture is 4 years old...

As for my health, it's gotten better...I no longer spontaneously bleed from random body parts anymore...

As someone who's lived a very long time, I find it more than annoying that the presumptive nominee of the Democratic Party wants so badly to turn the page that he can praise Ronald Reagan and yet fail to mention (even in passing) the accomplishments of a single Democratic President since JFK.

He didn't "praise Reagan" he called him a transformative (or something like that) President. I agree LBJ doesn't get enough credit, particualry on civil rights. But that's nothing new. HRC mentioned him only to respond to BHO statement about JFK using words to inspiore the nation,and she noted it took LBJ and his experience to get it done.
Bear, thanks for th elink to LBJ. I saw a televised play on LBJ about ten years ago (maybe longer) which had a lot of the kind of stuff on the link. I forgert who portrayed LBJ, but he did a helluva a job.

Okay, back to work. This blog is addictive even to a BHO supporter.

FryDaddy:

AAs have been the most loyal bloc of Democratic voters since the time they were lawfully permitted to vote. This loyalty has been rewarded through our primary voting process. The dreaded weighted delegate system.

Yes , loyalty counts for something.

Posted by: Memin Pinguin | June 11, 2008 12:40 PM

That's just b.s. No one is more important than anyone else when it comes to voting. Otherwise it should just be called The Democratic Black Party and be done with it.

I have always believed that a candidate’s family is pretty much off limits. That is unless a family member has taken it upon themselves to publicly tarnish the other candidate, or has made some incredible damning public statements. In such cases where this has occurred, that family member becomes fair game, and all segments of their life can be throughly brought into question. Family members can, and have vigorously campaigned for other family members without once mentioning the other candidate's name. Chelsea Clinton is a family member whom I would consider off limits.

Mrs. Schlossburg is "traveling in Europe" right now. She's not around to do any vetting of anyone. So what is her role exactly?

NEW THREAD