Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Ron Paul 2008!

www.campaignforliberty.com

for more info, btw

Maybe Obama just thinks she's cute. She almost looks like Obama Girl.
What do you think he hired Samantha Powers for? Because she wrote a book he liked? : D

And champ, dude, Ron dropped out.

Good Morning Craig -- The snow shovel idea was crazy -- like send coal to Newcastle -- wouldn't Iowans already have snow shovels?

Was Solis-Doyle a mole from Team Obama? I hear that she was frequently on the phone with her old buddy, Axelrod, even when she was supposedly working for Clinton.

I've heard the Clintons are loyal to a fault -- even to the point where they would not be able to see people plotting against them. In politics like everything else these days, loyalty is seldom rewarded.

I am curious about what Mike Henry would say about this move. He was #2 and quit after Solis-Doyle was released from the campaign. His resignation letter reportedly citied his own loyalty to Solis-Doyle. He was picked up by Mark Warner right away. Mike worked for Warner in 2001.

Wasn't hiring Ms. Solis-Doyle the equivalent of hanging a sign in the window:

Help Wanted
No Clintons Need Apply

I'm tempted to suggest a conspiracy here, but it's too early in the thread to make that off-the-wall comment.

Come on guys/girls......

We all know why he is doing this..... The obvious...

Clinton and Solis are not actual happy campers together, given the immense difference Magie made after Solis departed..... Everyone blamed her because if Maggie could do such a terrific job in such a small time frame, than Patty should have done an excellent job with all the time and money she had!
Another warning that people should not expect HRC to be the vice presidential nominee... This serves as a warning to her, to not expect that. And not only to her, but to her voters as well. This guy (and his compatriots) are so full of ill-will it is unbearable......

1 + 1 = 2 in my book......

But BO should not forget, when KARMA comes knocking at your door, you should be ready....LOL

Sorry Ed..
I call it when I see it........LOL

Alicia,
maybe I missed something...But I cannot seem to recall the Mike Henry departure.......

Bonnie,

We're starting a revolution. The "Ron Paul Revolution", maybe you've heard of it. If not, you will. You will.

Bring on the conspiracy theory EdvB. We've already discussed this topic at length yesterday, so we could use a new angle. You gotta get on the ball, Craig, you're getting scooped by your own readers.

If HRC allowed a 'mole' into such a high-responsibility position, she deserved to lose. Like I said, a lot of sour grapes in that the HRC campaign hired her, and now vilifies her. Wahhh.

Well, if Craig has such a negative reaction to her performance, a reaction that is probably more moderate than his actual feelings, it certainly shows the disdain Mr Obama will hold for his VP, no matter whom it might be.

Mrs Clinton, to my understanding, has always been tremendously loyal to each of her personal staff. Her big mistake, in Solis' case, was in assuming that her loyalty would be reciprocated.

Ron Paul Revolution = Stormfront

Jason -- Here you go:
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/thefix/2008/02/clinton_deputy_campaign_manage.html

Obama tries to have it both ways on the trade issue:

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080617/COL06/806170389

I could play that game with Democratic figures all day, Alicia, but I won't because I have more integrity than you.

Flatus -- I thought the same -- pretty clear how Craig feels about her. And Hillary is still very loyal to her staff. There are a lot of people in DC whose careers were made thanks to the Clintons -- and the loyalty has not worked both ways.

There is a lot of stuff I'm hearing about the Obama squeeze to the Hillary Clinton campaign. For example -- he will not let her raise money on her website to settle her debt. He's forcing the end of the monthly contributions via credit card. Obama wants all the money to go to him now -- so he can hold it over her head.

There's also a move afoot to deny Hillary a roll call vote -- delegates are being pressured to even keep her name from being put in nomination at the convention. Obama's busy replacing the glass ceiling with plexiglass.

Thnx for the link Alicia.

@Alicia:
And your post of 7:45 is spot on!

But as I said earlier....The Big BO should be careful, he is walking on thin ice.
He is not going step fopr step, he wants to make huge and giant leaps and destroy everything in his path....

@Champ:
If HRC allowed a 'mole' into such a high-responsibility position, she deserved to lose. Like I said, a lot of sour grapes in that the HRC campaign hired her, and now vilifies her. Wahhh.

Posted by: champ | June 17, 2008 7:14 AM

I agree! Eventhough she is still my candidate for POTUS

Alicia! That's all so petty!

Apparently some noise of the outrage reached the Obama camp since they did issue a statement last night that no offense was intended to Clinton. Here is some more detail on the Solis hiring from Sam Stein on Huffington

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/16/obama-hires-solis-doyle-a_n_107395.html

I mentioned this yesterday but couldnt find the link......Bergman parody, De Duva

http://www.bergmanorama.com/multimedia_parodies.htm

Several posters have requested "proof" that the media was biased against Sen. Clinton and/or favored Sen. Obama. TPM has done a fairly comprehensive run down. They couldn't get all the good/bad adjectives or body language, but at least managed to get most of the events.

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/06/was_the_media_unfair_to_hillar.php

better link:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3803584387889303730

BTW,

The comments posted on the above article go back and forth just the way we do here with "did to/did not" so it is probably pretty honest.

madeleine kahn in that little parody also.......

Sturgeone

I just watched De Duva. Very funny

Jamska

Hi Morning Trail Mixers,

Jason, I agree with you. When I first heard that Obama had hired Pati Solis
Doyle to run his VPs campaign, I immediately thought it was another
slap to Hillary. I suspect that Hillary and Pati aren't the best of friends anymore. Also, it's as you wrote, a big hint that Obama probably won't be inviting Senator Clinton onto his ticket.

Any of you Clintonestas or Clintonians who haven't looked at Hillary's new
album yet, you should. It's inspiring. Go to Hillary. com. Does anyone know if she's getting help paying off her campaign debt?

I just received a letter in the snail mail from Obama's campaign. Obviously, Hillary has given over her supporters lists to him. I threw it away. I don't donate to the DNC or Obama.

Well Flatus, it does seem so petty. The Obama campaign has not been showing themselves to be gracious in victory. Nothing unusual there. Being a mean winner seems to be the new way these days at all political levels; if you're not ruthless, you're weak.

Hillary's being in debt keeps her in a weakened position. She has to pay off the debt by August. By holding that debt over her head, Obama can keep her name out of the nomination, prevent a roll call vote, and just have a coronation in Denver under the guise of unity. The whole unity thing is just a gloss. There are still a lot of people who are DEM regulars who have not jumped on the Obama train. Obama intends to supress any dissent towards his ascendancy by any means necessary. Mixed in the hope and change meme is much fear and loathing.

Champ

"Alicia, but I won't because I have more integrity than you."

You have every right to voice your opinion, but is it necessary to start the name calling of other posters this early in the morning?

Hey, she started the baseless character assassination. Make your own bed, I'll tuck you in.

I didn't see her attack you champ. Attacking your idea or position is fair game, but she didn't attack you as a person.

There is a difference.

She actually did Jamie, you just didn't pick up on it. She deserved to be called on it. Notice she hasn't responded either, because she's just slinging mud.

Champ

Jamie has a point. This is the adult session. they tend to behave with much less personal animosity and much more reasoned debate. The children tend to log on about 10am then throwing poo starts.
Jack

Jamie, thanks for the link to TPM - therein is a much more wide ranging discussion of the issue that has become the sole focus of this discussion board. The breadth of views is refreshing although frankly the issue is disheartening for those of us who want to take on McCain and the Republicans.

Okay, Champ I'm trying to understand because these little wars get out of hand so rapidly. What did she post that was an insult to you and why. I see the two items of

Ron Paul Revolution = Stormfront and the posting of the WaPo article about the Henry resignation.

Am I missing something that is a personal slap at you as an individual?

TP from CT

Start a subject. The McCain campaign has been so lacking in any interest that it is easy to get sidetracked into the bright shiny thing of the split in the Democratic party and the ins and outs of the machinations between the Kennedy and Clinton wings.

I'm interested that Obama has brought in some fairly high powered economists and is now proposing corporate tax cuts to be in line with Europe. Any thoughts on the matter?

Reuters article on the corporate tax cut proposal

http://www.reuters.com/article/vcCandidateFeed7/idUSN1730710820080617

Stormfront is a virulently racist web site with all kinds of hateful and violent shit posted there. It is run by a guy named Don Black, who contributed to Ron Paul's campaign.

Now, I could spend a long time compiling a list of all the contemptible figures who have contributed to the campaigns of the "Big 3" POUTS candidates this year, but I claimed to be above such trifling, so I'll refrain.

Alicia equated the Ron Paul Revolution (to which I subscribe) to a singular racist website and the unseemly entities that post there, without any support of such an assertion. Hell, I supported her assertion more than she did, and I disagree with her! She just wants to dismiss it and suppress a debate in which she is either not willing or capable to participate. Such conduct warrants a response, in my view.

So yeah, she attacked me personally.

I spoke with a Clinton headquarters staffer yesterday and asked if they had given their e-mail/donor list to Obama. She said absolutely not. If you have ever contributed to the DNC or the 2004 Kerry/Edwards ticket that is where they are getting your name from, not the Clinton campaign. You can still contribute to her campaign, which will help pay down the debt, at least for a few more weeks.

Regarding Patti Solis Doyle; the previous comment that HRC should not have hired a 'mole' is kind of oxymoronish- by definition no one knows who a mole is. It was reported on CNN that PSD had a personal relationship with David Axelrod. (not in the bibical sense), another blog posted that her brother is a Chicago Alderman and that she worked for Mayor Richard Daly. Is this a payment for a job well done? Was she really a saboteur? What better way to NOT help a campaign- by shutting down the Iowan campaign headquarters for two days to watch the DVD collected works of Greys Anatomy? It is only too bad she was not replaced earlier. Back in January a friend, a Chicago resident, was visiting. She told me that Omama's campaign was a complete Chicago machine invention with the expressed purpose of 'taking over' the democratic party and by extention the country. People she knew in city jobs were told to vote for Obama or lose their jobs. No one knows how 'they' know who voted for whom, they just do. Sounds to me as if the only change you can believe in is that the changes will be the location and the players, the game remains the same But maybe it will be worse.

Whew....
My point exactly.....:))

I told you some hour ago what BO wanted to paint, so according to Jamies article, I am not the only one seeing it that way...
He is going in giant steps everyone. And he can do it in giant steps, because he gets help from the top of DNC... I think the others should just step aside. HRC should just step aside and provide what they ask..... as long as it is moral. I also got the stupids e-mail and I kindly requested to cancel and remove my name form all DNC as well as BO mailings, effectively NOW!
Sometimes you just gotta play the game with the people, and play dumb... The fire will catch on soon.

Anyone know if Donna Brazile has resigned yet?

"most obama supporters"

why do you say that statement? How can anyone think that a handful of statements here- on behalf of anyone- represents "most" supporters?

Just as there are some i think seem way off- one for example who is a nonstop Taylor Marsh trailer-others are not.

But if anyone bases a "most (Obama)(Hillary)(Ron Paul) supporters " on what is written here behind pseudonyms- well, that is troubling.

Most voters do not scour the blogs nor comment on them- each candidate had their strong supporters and their stupid supporters, and then there are those just trying to stir the pot.

Rep James Clyburn Democrat, SC under fire for "earmarks".........he's appropriated more money than all other SC reps combined, much of it for friends and family........obama supporter and clinton besmircher.........

http://www.charleston.net/news/2008/jun/16/rep_clyburn_draws_fire_earmarks/

Jamie --- How does corporate tax cut get framed as a populist idea? When Obama campaign comes out against a cut in the gas tax, at the same time touting a reduction in the corporate tax, how does that go over?

Prof Marcia,
Can you please read my last post from the previous thread? Stop defenidng yourself...if you said something once or twice.....let it be! people who are open minded and willing will pick it up...No worries!

But please read it...

And do you have the link to the story you mentioned from Sean Wilentz?

Thnx.....

Maybe she's a spy for the loser Clintons. Or maybe she's in for the Hispanic token. Doesn't sound like she's all that competent. Hope Barack knows what he is doing and gets a VP who is smarter than Solis Doyle.....

MYRTLE BEACH — South Carolina Rep. James Clyburn has earmarked millions of taxpayer dollars this decade for projects that could directly benefit his friends and family members, a newspaper reported Sunday.

The Sun News of Myrtle Beach found that Clyburn has set aside at least $6.2 million for such projects.

That includes money for two projects his nephew was to help design, a community center that runs a program employing his sister-in-law and a Columbia wellness center that employs his daughter.

Clyburn is the House majority whip. He was the sole sponsor for 32 earmarks totaling $38.8 million in the current budget.

In contrast, all of South Carolina's other lawmakers combined to sole-sponsor $45.5 million in earmarks in the same budget.

Sturg -- Earmarks -- If you can't help your own family then who can you help?

Hi Jason,

Thanks for your comments. I'm not defending myself as much as providing
evidence of my claims so that I won't be such an easy target for Obama
people.

I will read your post.

I don't have the Sean Wilentz link but it was in The New Republic Feb 27, 2008, entitled "Race Man."

Okay Champ

You are right I missed it. The only "Stormfront" I've ever paid attention to was the one by Billy Joel. : )

The only suggestion I would make is to counter with actual positions of Ron Paul. I've seen a lot of negative ones and actually have the same problem with some of the RP followers that I have with the BHO followers ... a sort of non analytical loyalty that the majority of human beings don't deserve.

Also, there is the sort of blog rule that the instant someone throws the "Nazi or Hitler" reference, they have lost the argument.

Jason -- Why would Donna Brazile resign?

KarenAnn,

Thanks for letting me know Hillary isn't giving her supporter's names to Obama.
A couple of days ago her website stated that all donations should go to Obama
now. I thought that was odd, since she still owes all that money. What's up with that?

Regarding Patti Solis Doyle; the previous comment that HRC should not have hired a 'mole' is kind of oxymoronish- by definition no one knows who a mole is. It was reported on CNN that PSD had a personal relationship with David Axelrod....

A valid point, Karen, but semantics aside, if PSD was an active saboteur in HRC's campaign, and with her history of relationships with Chicago political figures was available, it's no one else's fault other than HRC that she was allowed into such an important position in the campaign, and is much more damning of HRC's judgement than the Wright controversy was to Obama.

Like I said, if she could allow a saboteur into such a profile position in her campaign, imagine the snakes she'd let into the White House had she been nominated and elected. All the vilification of PSD just undermines any legitimacy HRC's campaign had.

Jamie -- http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/11/the_odd_alliance_supporting_ro.html

Jamie,

...duely noted, although I didn't feel the need to articulate policy when the link in the 2nd post of this thread directs to a message written by Dr. Paul, himself. It's worth a read, might as well get it from the source rather than me.

i don't agree with Paul on everything, but I admire the fact that he addressed actual issues of relevance to today's society contrasting with the empty promises and demagoguery in which every other candidate, HRC and BO included, engaged.

mornin' all.

jamie, I'm with you. I don't see the personal attack against champ, but I do see an attack against a cause champ embraces. Ron Paul should be mortified by the equation of the RPR to Stormfront. Champ might try and refute that association (which I do not believe Paul would accept as part of his support base).

Applying champ's standard, every criticism of Obama by equating misogyny with his campaign is a personal criticism of Obama's supporters as misogynists, every criticism of Clinton by equating racism with her campaign is a personal criticism of Clinton's supporters. I don't buy it.

Jason, you wonder if Brazile has resigned from what? Her DNC position on the Voting Rights Committee? Not that I'm aware of.

"How does corporate tax cut get framed as a populist idea?"

Alicia,

As I understand what the Senator is proposing, this is a throwback to the classic economic theory ... that every nation has the right to protect its internal developing industries both with tax concessions internally and tariffs to discourage imports that threaten that development.

The U.S. technically has one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world. Unfortunately, the tax code is so convoluted with so many loopholes that it is almost impossible for even a tax expert to figure out who is getting blessed and who is getting cursed while the average tax payer pays for the confusion.

When it works properly, new businesses are developed until they are able to compete on their own on the national or world market and they hire people in areas that might have high unemployment thus providing income where most needed.

When it doesn't work properly (all those loopholes), you get outsourcing of jobs and profits. It is a fine line to be walked so as I understand it, both McCain and Obama are calling for a simplification of the tax code but are disagreeing as usual on who gets the goodies and what will benefit the nation in the long run.

LOL- I love when Liberals need to dredge from Conservative sewers (a la "American Thinker") to support their arguments. Speaks volumes.

Jason,

I read your post from the last thread. I agree with the spirit of your thoughts and understand your feelings. I also feel the pain in Oregon Democrat's response to what you wrote. I wondered what happened to her and now I know, sadly, she has been chased away by the bullies among us.

It's too bad that this blog sometimes seems so mean-spirited.
I try to keep a civil voice even when I disagree with a poster.

During the times this blog becomes too threatening, I just click off.

I hope we don't lose too many more of the gentle souls who comment
on Trail Mix.

I hope we don't lose too many more of the gentle souls who comment
on Trail Mix.

not a problem......most are loooong gone......

Here is that Wilentz article. I just happened to be reading it.

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=aa0cd21b-0ff2-4329-88a1-69c6c268b304

Applying champ's standard, every criticism of Obama by equating misogyny with his campaign is a personal criticism of Obama's supporters as misogynists, every criticism of Clinton by equating racism with her campaign is a personal criticism of Clinton's supporters. I don't buy it.

Posted by: pogo | June 17, 2008 9:28 AM

I agree wholeheartedly, pogo, but that malarkey goes on all the time in here. That's why I called her on it. Alicia still hasn't articulated her position beyond that besides linking to a heavily conservative website. You should be aware that the Neo-cons are scared shitless of the Ron Paul contingent, because it threatens their stranglehold on the GOP.

Before she was fired, PSD was with Clinton in one capacity or another for over 15 years, helping Bill get elected President and Hillary getting elected senator - twice each. If she was a mole for Obama, she must have been the most patient and ineffective mole in the history of politics. She helped screw up the Clinton campaign, she was fired, and she took a job with the competition, but not until the contest was over. It sounds like "just politics" to me.

Sturgeone

"most are loooong gone" I don't think they are gone. I think they lurk above us in the stratosphere occasionally and view the mud wrestling down below. Every once in a while, one will fall off a cloud and go plop for a comment or two before taking flight again with slightly besmirched wings. : )

Prof Marcia -- The Clinton website is just a little unclear. There is a place for sign up to support Obama. There is also a place to make a contribution to Hillary -- but it does not obviously state that the money contributed there will go to the Hillary campaign.

In fact, money that is donated there will go to Hillary's campaign to retire the debt. There has been a discussion about doing one last final push -- like an online rally -- to get small donations to cover the debt. It will probably happen around the July 4th holiday.

@Prof Marcia:
No we won´t..
OD will eventually come back, because she knows that every opinion, as long as it is civil counts!

@Pogo and Alicia,
The woman clearly stated that she would resign if it was coming down to the SD´s. It maybe an old and tred point for some, but I am going to keep it in formt of her when the time comes for the convention. She said ity, not once, not twice but three times. My friend has the one time (CNN April 23rd) on DVD.....

@Champ:
I think you make some valid points. very true.
I agree with you that you say, and I Quote: "Regarding Patti Solis Doyle; the previous comment that HRC should not have hired a 'mole' is kind of oxymoronish- by definition no one knows who a mole is"......
Another quote form you:"Like I said, if she could allow a saboteur into such a profile position in her campaign, imagine the snakes she'd let into the White House had she been nominated and elected."
Unquote

My point is that the two above sentences contradict....If you are not able to see / know a mole, you cannot NOT hire them, IMHO.....

Here is that Wilentz article. I just happened to be reading it.

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=aa0cd21b-0ff2-4329-88a1-69c6c268b304

Posted by: Jamie | June 17, 2008 9:37 AM

YEAH for Jamie.
Thnx...Going to print it out.

champ, I agree completely that the Stormfront site is likely one of the most offensive out there, and I would be upset if it were equated to a candidate I support. You might take the association personally, but it didn't look like it was aimed at you. But I could be wrong.

Although I spend no time concerning myself with Repug internal power struggles, I have to say that anyone who scares the neocons shitless is OK with me, but I think that if McOldFart loses in Nov., the neocons will be drummed out anyway. Not to suggest you're overstating Paul's potential influence or anything, but upon what base of power does his threat to the neocons stand? It surely isn't his support among Repug voters.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/republican_vote_count.html

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/republican_delegate_count.html

Of course, pogo. The HRC crybabies don't realize they are undermining their own arguments by even floating such an idea.

Not saying all, or most supporters of HRC are crybabies, to be clear. Most likely a minority.

I'm still reading that hit piece from "American Thinker" you linked above, Alicia, and it is loaded with the types of pejoratives, guilt-by-association, and slander that Neo-cons usually reserve for their most hated Liberal rivals. What does that tell you?

Before she was fired, PSD was with Clinton in one capacity or another for over 15 years, helping Bill get elected President and Hillary getting elected senator - twice each. If she was a mole for Obama, she must have been the most patient and ineffective mole in the history of politics. She helped screw up the Clinton campaign, she was fired, and she took a job with the competition, but not until the contest was over. It sounds like "just politics" to me.

Posted by: pogo | June 17, 2008 9:39 AM

Ohhhhhhh..........Thank you Pogo! A voice of reason in the wilderness! You conspiracy theorists and (political Animal) are on the wrong track completely.

All the writing is on the wall here. VEEP ticket needs continuaty for the General. Solis Doyle is great at what she did and was very loyal to Clinton.

If everyone were trashed as thuroughly in every campaign, then no one would be in politics. Obama's campaign is giving everyone jobs as a job that matches their expertise comes up. That is all.

Jason, I could be misremembering what Brazile said, but I think she said that if it came down to the superdelegates and it looked like they were going to steal the election from the people's chosen candidate, she'd resign.

Because the RPR is targeting local (municipal, county, etc.) elections now, where real change can be enacted within a political context. That's how real political movements start, from the bottom up. Libertarians, who make up a significant part of the GOP base, have been waiting for a long time for a viable and commendable leader around which to coalesce (RPR), and the more converts they get, the weaker the GOP becomes. Me likey.

Alicia Knight,

Thanks so much for your explanation. Can you help me with another question?
Or anyone. . .

Does Hillary still hold those delegates who supported her all along?
Can she keep them until the convention or does Obama have the power
to force her to relinquish all her delegates and stay silent at the convention?

Since I mentioned "Stormfront", here is "We didn't start the fire". It leaves off in 1987. Any suggestions on updates?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90AuyrOr_IM&feature=related

Pogo: In your interesting summary of Hilda Solis Doyle's long association with the Clintons ... and particularly with Hillary ... you failed to mention that she was originally brought into the Clinton camp by David Wilhelm, Bill's former campaign manager and an early Obama supporter.
Interestingly, Wilhelm is another of those Chicago pols with connections to Tony Rezko.
There are a whole series of associations within the Obama campaign and Chicago Democratic politics that cause me great concern about this folding together of the DNC and the Obama operation. It is something I have not seen before and it causes me great concern.

Maybe this is Obama's way of signalling that he will not negotiate with terrorists--i.e., the Clinton dead-enders threatening to blow up the party if he doesn't give Senator Clinton the VP slot.

Prof Marcia: A lot will depend upon Speaker Pelosi. As the person in charge of the convention, one presumes she could refuse to allow Sen Clinton's name to be put into nomination.
Another area to watch is the selection of state delegates at state party conventions. I have already read that, as the process has gone forward in some states, HRC supporters are being edged out in their bids to go to the convention as votes for Hillary.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/06/so-long-tim.html#comment-103437

That's the post Jason's talking about.
I read it and highly recommend you read it.

Sturg,

We're not gone. just waiting for the hate to come to and end. Looks as though the soup needs more salt!

Kind of hard to live in the midst of such hate of the candidate we support.

Need to get to work.
CIO!

Since the obama campaign had to know that such a move to put solis doyle in that particular position at this time could only further harden the millions of Clinton supporters' resolve to not vote for the empty suit, I would guess that (i) even obama doesn't want obama to be president or (ii) along with Ohio, Florida and a few other states of the 57 states of the obama nation, obama now believes he doesn't need Clinton supporters to win. What a maroon!

Prof Marcia -- The elected pledged delegates are obligated to vote for Clinton on the first ballot at the convention. After that there is no obligation. There is a great deal of pressure on the Clinton campaign to release her delegates before the convention so a roll call vote will be avoided. So far, she has not released her delegates.

Maggs, I wasn't aware of the Wilhelm connection, but since Obama's first run at the IL state legislature wasn't until '96, and he was a community organizer before that, so I don't see how Wilhem's interest in him as a political fugure that PSD could benefit from within the Clinton camp could have predated Clinton's '92 run, when she came into the Clinton camp. I have not followed the Chicago political machine - DNC connection beyond what's been in the Times and Post over the past couple of days, so I don't know much about those associations. Enlighten me.

And for those of you who follow the financial news of the day -

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/18/business/18econ.html?hp

I've seen better news. And the Dow "surged" a whopping 15 points on the news of Goldman Sachs' earnings report. Some surge.

Ronald Reagan gettin' old
George Bush is taking hold
Dan Quayle, potato-e, the Wonder Years in on.

Liked Saddam, now he's bad
still we'll stay out of Baghdad
Kuwait is great, the Shia, too
Rise up and we'll follow you...(NOT)

CHORUS

Here comes Willy, slick and silly
Sophisticated hillbilly
Can't wait to get laid when Hillary is gone.

Al Gore stiff and wooden
Tipper hates the devils music
P M R C save the nation's youth

Stupid, the economy
dotcom bubble helpin' me
Money flows, cars and ho's, will the party never end?

CHORUS

and on and on... this endeavor got old real fast, Jamie.

Bruce P -- The Clinton holdouts -- most of them -- do not want Hillary to take the VP slot even if it is offered. There are a few Clinton supporters would be happier about Obama if Clinton is on the ticket, but that appears to be a minority view.

Alicia: In fact, the pledged delegates to Sen Clinton are not obligated to vote for her, only strongly encouraged to do so. Rules requiring pledged delegates to vote for their candidate on the first ballot were changed a few cycles back.

Hi, She, good to see a friend from the other side.:-)) I try.

Jason, I could be misremembering what Brazile said, but I think she said that if it came down to the superdelegates and it looked like they were going to steal the election from the people's chosen candidate, she'd resign.

Posted by: pogo | June 17, 2008 9:51 AM

Bro,
I will try to get the dvd from my buddy this weekend, and then quote Donna precisely....
But she said that she would resign if the primary was to be decided by the SD´s . Later she said it a tad differently but she said that she would resign if it were up to the SD´s to decide.... I always hold people to their word and I will hold Donna to what she said.

Isn´t it strange that no one has sincve askjed her what her psoition on that topic is since April/May?

LOL bruce

Prof Marcia

"Does Hillary still hold those delegates who supported her all along?"

As with anything, this has a lot of "yeah buts" attached to it.

Officially, Sen. Clinton has only suspended her campaign (so that she can continue to take in funds to pay off her debt) and she has not released her delegates. This means that technically according to party rules, her name can be put in nomination and all of the pledged delegates earned in primaries and caucuses are required to vote for her on the first ballot. The Super Delegates who previously endorsed her are free to either vote for her or any other candidate.

Now anywhere between now and the convention she could release her delegates. The party might try to do a rule change which could cause all sorts of screams.

Does Obama have the power to force her to release? Possibly. A lot depends on what he wants her to do and what she is willing to do and the status of that debt and/or power position within the party, and whether he thinks he either doesn't need her supporters or wants her to help win them over.

I get the impression they want a coronation at the convention, so I'm sure there are a lot of negotiations going on behind the scenes.

My own take on it, is that if the Chicago mafia tries to rough up Hillary too badly, they risk alienating not only her supporters, but a lot of independents. If what is desired is a landslide in November which I believe to be entirely possible, then courtesy and consideration would probably be a good idea.

It would be no skin off anyone's nose to let her nomination and second go forward, the first ballot to take place (If all the SDs shift he would still win on the first ballot) and everyone could enjoy the confetti in their hair, the balloon volleyball, and a good night of drunken revelry.

Lack of courtesy and you get pickets, catcalls, and a bad taste in the mouth of the electorate.

Before she was fired, PSD was with Clinton in one capacity or another for over 15 years, helping Bill get elected President and Hillary getting elected senator - twice each. If she was a mole for Obama, she must have been the most patient and ineffective mole in the history of politics. She helped screw up the Clinton campaign, she was fired, and she took a job with the competition, but not until the contest was over. It sounds like "just politics" to me.

Posted by: pogo | June 17, 2008 9:39 AM

Ohhhhhhh..........Thank you Pogo! A voice of reason in the wilderness! You conspiracy theorists and (political Animal) are on the wrong track completely.

All the writing is on the wall here. VEEP ticket needs continuaty for the General. Solis Doyle is great at what she did and was very loyal to Clinton.

If everyone were trashed as thuroughly in every campaign, then no one would be in politics. Obama's campaign is giving everyone jobs as a job that matches their expertise comes up. That is all.

Posted by: Chef Sheila | June 17, 2008 9:49 AM

@Pogo and Chef Shila....
Don´t know about you, but people change...They can become mean, greedy and all of a sudden they smell money.
I am not saying PSD is that person, but I just want you to keep in mind, that eventhough I am faithful to you for 25 years all of a sudden I can have a change of mind........with good intentions, also with bad intentions.

Pogo: I agree with you that the notion of Hilda Solis Doyle as a mole is very far-fetched indeed. I was only pointing out that it makes sense that she would return to her political roots after she was let go.
I must confess here that I have always been confused at the Obama timeline. He did run for office before 1996 ... against Bobby Rush. I'll have to look that up.

In the meantime, David Wilhelm was also Rod Blagojevich's campaign manager, and was named at the Rezko trial as among those who helped steer contracts to Rezko ... many things mentioned in the opening statements were not brought up at trial because they were outside the scope. Still, there can be no question that there is a nexus between all these Chicago pols that is little different from traditional Chicago politics ... the sort of one hand washes the other type of politics that Sen Obama so utterly condemns in Washington.

Jamie: Once again, your comments are clear, concise, and totally on point. Since I am not a mind reader, I have no earthly idea what Obama wants or even what Hillary wants ... but I find the fact that she is vacationing at her own home to be intriguing ... speaks to me of furious behind the scenes negotiations.

maggs, that's clearer. Returning to roots after getting fired doesn't surprise me - and is likely how she got the new job. Still the timeline doesn't support the mole theory. Obama lost to Rush in the 2000 election for USHofR.

Jason: In defense of Patty Solis Doyle (whom I may earlier have confused with Congresswoman Hilda Solis and my apologies for that), this is a woman who had a high-paying political job for at least 15 years (probably more). She is used to having a position and an income. She is from Chicago and she is a Democrat ... I do not question her motives at all. I do, however, question the signal that is being sent to Hillaryland (a phrase Solis Doyle apparently invented).

Pogo: Thanks for the timeline info. The fact that he lost to Rush in 2000 is even more interesting than if he had lost earlier. I wonder why?
Now it will be interesting to see whether -- if Obama does win -- Rahm Emmanuel is appointed to fill out the remainder of Obama's term. This is reportedly what Pelosi wants (to get Emmanuel out of her hair), but what will the Chicago machine want?

good morning gang....

I've been mostly lurking for the past couple of days.....

been thinking about all those poor souls in Iowa and how they probably won't get anymore help than Katrina victims....

in the face of it.... it makes all these political squabbles seems so petty.....

just my mood right now.....

maggs, Wilhelm ran Clinton's presidential campaign in '92, and ran Blagojevich's gubernatorial campaign in 2002. Again, the timelines don't support the mole theory. PSD did work on Daley's '89 campaign - probably where she met Wilhelm, who managed at least one of Daley's mayoral campaigns - but I don't know if it was that one.

Was the 2008 Democratic Primary Election Fixed?

"I find myself asking questions like “why did the DNC choose to penalize some states for holding their primaries early, but not others?”

How come in Feb uncommitted Super Delegates believed the winner should be the candidate who won the popular vote? And so did 59% of Democrats who were surveyed?

Had Michigan and Florida both seated their delegates in full like Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina did, and the delegates had been counted as the voters voted, then the results of the election would have been:

Hillary Clinton 1,725 pledged delegates
Barack Obama 1,707 pledged delegates

Hillary Clinton would have won the pledged delegate count by 18 delegates.

The reality is that Hillary Clinton did win both the pledged delegate votes and the popular vote total:"

http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/06/16/was-the-2008-democratic-primary-election-fixed/

Pogo: I have not argued that Solis Doyle is a mole. I have said that the theory sounds far-fetched.

Here's a bit of bad news for the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee - which does not reflect support among the voters we have been told he attracts.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/16/AR2008061602690.html?hpid=topnews

I see this a a bad sign.

maggs, I know that. I'm just talking with you rather than to the great blogosphere, 'cuz I enjoy having discussions rather than arguments (well, sometimes, anyway), and you are one person here who will discuss issues without getting personal and nasty. Others have suggested the mole theory and are free to read and respond to these posts.

Before I disapear for the day....

You can look for connections all you want. As inbred and small that Political talent theater is, you are going to find links over and over again if you suspect anything. personal contact and networking and then proof of sucess in your field is everything in politics.

I was in the White House for four years with B-41 and Press Corps with CLinton. I have numerous contacts in the campaign world.

2004 I made a good contact with Ickes and Cutter. Before that it was Brazile. I have contacts on the other side too.

There is a thread I have taken part in out there for Clinton and Kerry people. It was a clearing house of talent for the campaigns. ALL of these people know and have known each other for years.

There network is deep. They all go like a band of nomads from campaign to campaign and the cream comes to the top. Solis Doyle is some of that Cream and the Obamas are just going for the best or she would not have been picked up.

To pick up someone who is a bad risk, just to diss someone else is so Manchurian Candidate conspiracy theory.

If I were you guys. I would start looking at the whole picture before clinging to the conspiracy theory. There are lots of holes in it.

Besides....I thought you didn't listen to 24 hour cable

Ok, out the door. Yours Pogo!

dogs eye

I used those terms specifically because that is the reputation of Axelrod in all of his campaigns not just Sen. Obama, and the methods used to drive other candidates out of previous Obama races. The Chicago newspapers have used terms such as "sharp elbows' and written about Chicago style politics. That is just the way the game is played in the Windy City.

This is not a slam against Sen. Obama. You can believe in him and his ideals. It is a description of the political climate with which he is associated. As a person, he may have all sorts of high minded goals and be the soul of good intentions, but the people who have been guiding his move up the political ladder are very hard nosed politicians who have used any method to get their candidate elected.

Starry eyed idealism and practical politics rarely have anything in common.

P.U.M.A.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=OsTo-Mknce0

Right do nothing for Clinton at the convention and continue to drive votes away.

Of course since it appears neither the Convention or the DNC has any money and there has been talk of cutting the convention to one day, there may be no choice.

It's not Clinton's job to unify the party , that is the job of the party leader and so far Obama has created the
Disunity Party 08.

Helped by his idiot supporters who fail to realize he may have won the primary but he did not put together a winning majority and so far has done nothing but drive the very people he needs into the undecided camp.

dog, I certainly agree that it is in the party's interests for Clinton to proceed as you suggest in your 10:42 post, but I think she has to determine what she thinks is in her own political best interests. I hope she agrees with your assessment, and I hope Nancy and Barack agree with your suggestion as well. It is likely the only way to avoid the floor fight that most dems seem to be afraid of.

P.S.

Re Edwards and Richardson and would I use the same terms. Not the same ones, but similar ones. Richardson's backers at various times have been called the Mexican Mafia. Edwards has so much money, the worst I've heard about him is buying his way to the top.

Again, this doesn't mean that their goals are nefarious in any way or that the majority of their supporters are either stupid or mean. It just means that gaining power is a rough game and the people who play it don't always do it with kid gloves and their associations to raise funds or access aren't always the most sterling of human beings.

OK people.

Don't get too consumed with the word 'mole'. The whole PSD thing is a non-story, and was discussed at length yesterday, regardless.

Thanks, She, but I don't know if I can take the pressure, and god knows no pleas for civility have been effective here. LOL

Jamie: Once again, your statement is spot on. Sooner or later, the talking heads are going to pick up on the Chicago connection and discuss it in greater detail than has heretofore been the case. These so-called pundits have long political memories ... and will not fail to mention the disputed Chicago votes that "won" the 1960 election for JFK, or the machinations of Mayor Daley I at the 68 convention ... in addition to which, there is the possibility that Tony Rezko may yet want to strike a deal ... and even if much of what he says should prove false, it cannot help but raise

Alicia: Your commentary on the VA delegate convention was most enlightening.
What I really enjoyed, however, were your references to the drive home. Brought back some lovely memories of a long-ago trip through Virginia and a lovely seafood dinner at Tappahannock... I wish I had known at the time that my father's forebears settled in the Northern Neck in about 1652 ... I didn't pay enough attention at the time. Maybe I'll get back there again some day.

An Open Letter to Vice President Gore

"You of all people understand what it is like to be the far more qualified candidate and be on the receiving end of ridicule by the drive-by hit squad media.

Yet, with all of the advantages he had going into this year: the DNC clearly gaming Michigan and Florida in his favor, the media offering pillow fluffing soft stories about him, rather than vetting him, while exaggerating Senator Clinton’s every step to negative effect, he still was not able to close the deal until the Super Delegates raced to forcibly shut down this process.

What is the explanation, then, for the absolute mugging that took place at the Rules and Credentials Committee Meeting on May 31st?"

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/06/17/an-open-letter-to-vice-president-gore/

As Cactus Jack said, the VP office "isn't worth a bucket of warm piss."

O probably gave HRC a VP veto, if she would play nice.
Solis Doyle ison the VP team and will exercise that veto for HRC, if necessary.

Boiling it down, it is an appointment to pick an appointment to be worht less than warm piss, and therefore is not a big deal.

Dog
"Would you be talking this way if John Edwards or Bill Richardson was the nominee?"

LOL
Of course they would or some group of Democrats somewhere would. Or have you forgotten the "Arkansas Mafia"

Some of you Obama supporters are way too sensitive.

Jack

While we're talking about moles, how many of the "HRC to the death" crowd are actually HRC supporters, and how many are provocateurs - either just out for a little aggro, or working for the mcgeezer?

And of course, there's this.

http://www.pollster.com/blogs/poll_rasmussen_virginia.php

Yes You Can Barack Obama Rio

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psJN2B-eEv4

Obviously there are operatives in here, both declared and clandestine, and it's remarkable how easily manipulated some of the supposed 'critical thinkers' are.

the GOP has loads of unscrupulous trolls and slanderers, and they LOVE messin' with your minds.

Once again the censors are on the board.
No one is allowed to speak ill of the beloved.
This is not a blog just for Democrats -it is a blog about politics and the media not a campaign tool for Obama

Dog's -- As I have stated before, my vote is a meaningless protest vote, since I live in a very red county in a very blue state. I just cannot bring myself to not vote for a genuine candidate.

A recent poll of several of my friends and family (all Hillary supporters) indicates all the rest are going to write in Hillary's name, as of now. They take the position--which I find almost persuasive--that a protest vote is meaningless unless my ballot shows what it is that I am protesting. I could yet be persuaded.

Champ

You sound like you have been to the Obama school of unity. Amongst all humans, whether dem, rep, indie, green, etc., there are 'loads of unscrupulouse trolls and slanderers.' It is not inherent to any political party. There may be, however, more trolls and slanderers in some parties.

"Experience appears to be Obama's clearest weakness. Despite winning a grueling primary-election contest, he has gained no ground on the question of whether he has the experience needed to serve effectively as president. Just 50 percent of Americans said Obama has the necessary experience, almost the same as in early March. "

Obama still has some work to do to unite the Democratic Party. Almost nine in 10 Republicans now support McCain, while not quite eight in 10 Democrats said they support Obama. Nearly a quarter of those who said they favored Clinton over Obama for the nomination currently prefer McCain for the general election, virtually unchanged from polls taken before Clinton suspended her campaign
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/documents/postpoll_061608.html?sid=ST2008061700079

Dog,

"the vast majority of present commenters on Trail Mix are using Craig's blog to bash Obama with anything they can throw at him, credible or not."

Would you please point out anywhere there has been any "bashing" of Sen. Obama other than possibly the Gordo postings which most of us totally discount and consider the source.

No one has accused him of being dishonest. No one has attacked his motives. No one has abused his wife. At absolute worst, we have said that he appears unprepared for the job with a message that is empty of real content and that his supporters have tended to be naive and unquestioning of his qualifications.

That is hardly "bashing" and hardly the "majority of Clinton posters". It would be like saying that vicious name calling from a few is the "majority of Obama supporters". It just wouldn't be true.

Thanks, Jamie

I cannot believe the Obama camp didn't anticipate the way the Doyle appointment would be interpreted. It simply defies credibility for them to claim this was an innocent mistake.

If they did not intend to send the message everyone received, they would have knocked themselves out to prepare the ground, at the very least by making sure the Clinton camp was advised in advance and told the reasons for it (whatever on God's green earth those
could be).

Let's say Obama had fired Axlerod or Plouffe (sp). Hillary wins. There is much talk about a unity ticket. Hillary hires the guy Obama fired to the be the VP's chief-of-staff....
Last night, the talking heads on CNN seemed to concede gently that the Obama campaign (usually so good, according to Gergen) made a "mistake" with this move.

It's a "mistake," of course, because it does appear to be incredibly mean-spirited. But they aren't about to say that, not of Obama. It doesn't fit the narrative.

If the role was reversed and Hillary's campaign had made such a move, there would be much outrage over her mean-spiritedness--just one more example of how she's got to out-alpha her opponents, even those on the same team.

Meanwhile, out-alpha-ing is exactly what Obama is doing in many ways, some, like this, totally unnecessary except for the sheer fun of rubbing a vanquished opponent's face in it.

Better yet, they would not have made the hire at all, or at the very least would have given her a different role, something like "adviser to the campaign manager" or something.

That they did nothing of the kind is clear and unequivocal evidence they fully intended to deliver what they knew would be interpreted as a humiliating slap.

History

http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/stumper/archive/2008/06/16/the-electoral-map-is-obama-outperforming-kerry-or-is-mccain-outperforming-bush.aspx?print=true

Here'samorein depth analysis of the ABC/WaPo poll. Interesting reading.

http://www.abcnews.go.com/PollingUnit/Vote2008/Story?id=5177916&page=1

Yes, those who still consider themselves republicans are 90% for mccain. But what of the dramatic drop in the percentage who identify as republicans?

Those who describe themselves as indies seem to be polling pro-Obama by a fairly heavy margin.

The last 22 straight national polls put Obama in the lead. That goes back to May 3. Check out

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html#polls

The Obama campaign put out a statement saying it was an innocent mistake.

BTW Dog

"Ooh. Be scared of the big black man/the Windy City criminal."

This sort of comment is less than helpful. It is more of the "racist" meme that some posters are this board like to throw around. It is as if you can't find fault with Sen. Obama without hating all black people.

You can hardly protest the "bashing" and then toss out this sort of remark to those who do not think your candidate was the best possible choice.

Lynn C
Another spot on comment.. Especially the 1st paragraph...

Damn it is after six and I am still juggling with this stupid ECB report.....

McCain is getting 9 out of 10 Republicans according to the Wapo poll and Obama is only getting 8 out of 10 Democrats.

Some people are so full of koolaide they repeat lies when the facts are before them

Delusional

BTW Dog

"Ooh. Be scared of the big black man/the Windy City criminal."

This sort of comment is less than helpful. It is more of the "racist" meme that some posters are this board like to throw around. It is as if you can't find fault with Sen. Obama without hating all black people.

You can hardly protest the "bashing" and then toss out this sort of remark to those who do not think your candidate was the best possible choice.

Posted by: Jamie | June 17, 2008 11:59 AM

I was just about to comment on it Jamie. Good remark...

This black man here has heard ya dog!..... 1 - 0

Reference to my post form the last thread.....

This isn't a big deal. HRC probably discussed Solis' appointment with Obama during their "secret" meeting.

The Obama campaign does put out a lot of spindrool that's for sure because they know their idiot followers are only to happy to repeat it.

OK people, I'm done with this place. There is too much chaff through which to sift to get to the wheat of intelligent discourse. That there was such discourse to be had is the reason I've lasted this long here.

To those who have engaged me in debate (and there are many) with the purpose of educating each other, I thank.

To those I insulted unfairly or to those who took offense to comments I made when no harm was meant, I apologize.

The rest of you trolls, whiners, vapid posters, linkers, operatives, cheerleaders, and demagogues (right AND left) can go fuck yourselves.

You cloud the issues with distractions and triflings (just like the MSM, Craig included) that stifle honest debate and make everyone collectively more stupid. You should be ashamed, but I doubt you're capable of such an emotion. I won't allow my mind to be polluted with your bullshit anymore.

I won't let the door hit me in the ass on the way out.

Peace.

Hmmm

Well gang,
Enjoyed today yet again.
Stay civilized..
Hmmm, maybe I should ask that...LOl

Stay good

Oh
Interesting departure before I left

Well Champ...sorry to see you go, but als long as U are happy with your decission...we are..

Stay true to yourself....

Am off for today, see the gang tomorrow

Jamie,

With regards to your point yesterday about Russert being harder on Clinton that Obama, I would offer this response...

Luke 12:48, "But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more."

If he had a personal axe to grind, I think it's because he gave her every opportunity to admit that she was wrong on Iraq but she couldn't do it, lest she play into the preconceived notion that she was more of a political being than principled one.

Prof Marcia, thanks for the articles for your proof of bias. Although many of us here do not need proof of the disrespect of HRC in the media, it is still good to get my blood boiling with even more examples!

As far as mailings from the BHO campaign or from the DNC, others on another website -- I think the Puma site -- are suggesting just returning the postage-paid envelope, empty, so that they will not only receive no money, it will cost them.

Lastly, Dog's Eye, we are not "hysterical and insane" with regards to Senator Clinton. We are passionate about our candidate, feel she was dishonored and robbed and we are outraged -- that is completely different than your offensive characterization.

How's McCain's cholesterol levels today? Did he get his morning power-walk around the mall in? : )

Afternoon, folks.

Man, Craig, you are just a wholly owned subsidiary of Clintonland, aren't you? HILLARY was in charge of her campaign, with MARK PENN as her #1 - Patti Doyle wasn't even a close third. To label her as "a failed aide" is the kind of back-biting, enemies-list, Clintonist politics...well, that is why HILLARY LOST.

Patti Solis Doyle will do fine - she is not without skills, that's why HillBilly hired her in the first place. Barack has proven himself to be a solid manager, good two-way communication with key staff without holding the reins too tight. Which is also part of why HILLARY LOST.

Get over it, Craig. Your meal ticket is gone.

CatBalu,

I still don't understand why you don't feel dishonored that your candidate was poorly prepared to run the right campaign this time around. How long can you give her a pass for thinking it was a 6 week race?

Much of this "bias" came after they crowned the the absolute front runner and presumptive nominee. She then proved that she could "bleed like Drago" and the rest was history.

A better politician would have won from her position.

"If he had a personal axe to grind, I think it's because he gave her every opportunity to admit that she was wrong on Iraq but she couldn't do it, lest she play into the preconceived notion that she was more of a political being than principled one."

Where does the media fit into this scenario, Bear? The same media that demonized Gore, then cheerleaded both Bush and the Iraq war, then manipulated the sound on a tape to give us "the Dean scream," and in turn demonized John Kerry.

The media war drums were beating with a frenzy from the moment Hussain's name was brought into the equation. You saw it and I saw it. Everything from the near criminalizing of the Dixie Chicks prior to the invasion, to, once we invaded, those endless cable television "America's Bravest" walls of photos that indicated if you didn't support Bush's war you hated American soldiers.

I do not remember any outrage in the media. So no one had the right to ask for an apology for a vote to authorize the use of force if necessary, which is what that vote was. Furthermore, when I heard what Hillary had to say about her vote, at the time, I kept wondering why there was a near media blackout on her strong statements.

Hillary Clinton only owed one apology: for not understanding that the fix was already in, and a lunatic president and his Neocon pals were marching to war no matter what.

And as far as ANYONE working for GE having a gripe....well....those bombs were paying their salaries.

Jack:

To be frank, this country is moving to the Left. Slowly, but surely, average, everyday people are coming to see the economic and social equalities in this country. I think that the republicans today will be seen as crazy cavemen in the not too distant future. In all honesty, I don't think the 10% matters. Look at what Obama's doing in Lousianna, Missouri, Georgia, etc. The electoral map has changed. He's energized a community that has long for too long been dormant - the African American voting bloc. As Frank Rich's Sunday editorial outlined: Obama is beating McCain by 13 (!) points among women voters. To put that into perspective, he notes that Kerry only had women voters by 4 points, and Gore by 11. All of this is to say that if 10% wants to sit this one out, that's all right. Frankly, I'm not sure Obama needs them. For too long, the Reagan Democrats have held us back, memorializing, in their political/cultural stupidity, another older, (and after 1984 totally confirmed) senile Republican bastard. Now, as I said, the country is finally moving.

Bear, I understand what you're saying and where you're coming from -- enough Calif. phrases for you? -- and I respect your opinion as I do everyone's on this board.

I forgot to add last time, I have heard that money given on HRC's website will probably go to BHO, so if you are interested in retiring her debt, it is suggested that you snail mail it to her senatorial office.

rhetorical question...

Anyone want to start a pool on how long it will be until "champ" returns?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKR3QU3dB0M

LMHLAO!!

I say 24 hours(that always seems to be the average time people stay away).

Brit Hume Raises the Question of Barack Obama’s Muslim Background

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/06/17/brit-hume-raises-the-question-of-barack-obamas-muslim-background/

CatBalu,

One of the things that gets lost in this era of "personal identification" with political candidates, is that they are utterly Other to us as private citizens. The notion that *we* would even for a moment consider helping a candidate on the order of HRC out of debt is profoundly upsetting. This is simply ideology! Even the idea that Obama would help out here debt is disturbing. It's not as if HRC is the local, grass roots candidate who got in over her head and needs some help - and even then, the idea of giving money to pay back debts to Power is absurd. This further reinforces the slave mentality of today's electorate, and it's another way of demarcating formal freedom (post-welfare state, free-market liberal democracy, the freedom to choose coke v. pepsi, increasing privatization, and so on) from actual freedom. Sure, you have the "freedom" to give to a candidate, like you have the freedom to choose between health insurance plan A or B. The point is that what gets lost in this false notion of freedom, is that things could be otherwise. But this isn't actual freedom - it's the ideology of "choice" - you have the "freedom" to customize your retirement plan benefits v. sate-funded, non-privatized, social security as a *given* rather than a premium, etc. Political campaigns, like anything else, including health care, could and *should* be subsidized by the government.

Patsi,

I understand your frustration. I'm pissed that the media was complicit in allowing the Republicans to brand Max Cleland a traitor and coward because he wanted to make sure DHS was set up properly.

What I remember most from 9/11 is that I lost a friend in New York and I wanted my government to get me some revenge. I'm sure that many in the media felt the same way and were reflecting public opinion when they chose to ignore some important issues in the run up to the war.

Many are taking advantage of the fact that Americans have short memories. It seems that their excuse is going to be that we in the press never had a chance to see the intelligence reports that Congress did. We were also misled by Karl Rove and the other architects of this poorly planned war.

Is it hypocritical to be hyper critical of Hillary for being for the war when they were as well? Sure it is. Unfortunately, those are the times that we live in. They are arguing that they had their "Come to Jesus" moment, why hasn't she?

Catbalu

"it is suggested that you snail mail it to her senatorial office."

Not up on the current election laws, but this might be illegal. There are several ethics rules that deal with using Senatorial staff to do campaign functions.

She still has a minimal staff and an official office.
Snail mail should probably go here:

Hillary Clinton for President
4420 North Fairfax Drive
Arlington, VA 22203
Headquarters: 703.469.2008
Fax: 703.962.8600

Speaking of:

"Repeats or spreads every lie, rumor and piece of crap"....

Is there nothing that britt hume will not stoop to?

At long last, has he no shame?

Hey everyone, everybody happy today?

McCain to allow Off-shore drilling

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/17/mccain.energy/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

McCain's plan would let individual states decide whether or not to explore drilling possibilities. The proposal could put McCain at odds with environmentalists who say it's incongruous with his plans to combat global warning. California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, a McCain ally, is also opposed to offshore drilling.

Florida Gov. Charlie Crist had expressed opposition exploring the coastal waters, but he said this week he supports McCain's plan to lift the moratorium and would not rule out letting his state choose to drill offshore.

I just played back David Gergen's comments on CNN last night and was surprised he said it was Stupid for Obama to select Patti. Pretty strong words coming from him. Found the sound bite on this link:

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/06/16/a-video-accompaniment-to-larrys-post-with-another-story-about-ms-doyle/#more-3109

Sorry he said dumb not stupid still strong words.

vadaryl,

Why would you be surprised that Gergen - a spineless Clintonite - would be repeating the typical pro-HRC talking points ( indeed, the same that our wonderful Mr. Crawford wasted our time with in his post)? Furthermore, No Quarter is a right-wing site.

PoU, Dems have twice in the last 2 elections blown what should have been easy wins over an idiot opponent. Dismissing 10% of the party's voters because of smugness as a result of winning 150,000 (best case for Obama) more votes out of 35 million, is a good plan for making it 3 in a row.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_vote_count.html

Did you even look at the graph above the poll averages? There is a whopping 3.8% difference between Obama and McCain, and they were tied 2 weeks ago. Considering that Obama had a 5 point lead over McCain in March, I think it's a bit early to be popping the corks. And Georgia and Louisiana? The latest polls there show McCain with a 10 point advantage in GA and 9 in LA. Those are closer than they were a month or two ago, but they ain't a done deal. Missouri has become a dead heat at this point, which is a good sign, as has VA, but the radical redrawing of the electoral map has not occurred (and can't until Nov.), and is not reflected in the current polls. That said, I do believe Obama will end up winning, but get a grip. the RCP electoral map has Obama at a one electoral vote advantage among solid botes and a 47 vote advantage among leaners. There are 110 as tossups.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/

It will look more like the Gore and Kerry electoral maps with a couple or 3 states thrown in (OH, perhaps) in the end than a wholesale redrawing of the map.

I figure the web site would get some comment but it was just for the sound bite location. I don't recall David using strong words to describe things.

Lush, LOL. What does HL stand for? Happy little, or something like it?

I think David has been one of the better talking heads during this primary season.

Another Delegate Defects

"Then there is Sacha Millstone from Colorado, who seemingly slipped under the radar. Millstone is also a pledged delegate for Clinton, and she told The Denver Post back on June 8 that she would vote for Clinton at the convention, then quit the party."

http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/06/17/another-delegate-defects-bartoshevich-update/#more-326

I think what we see with Obama making this choice public at this time, is a candidate that is going to what he wants when he wants. That type of behavior can often be problematic for a politician.

As the saying goes: "Timing is everything."

Vadaryl...that was an interesting video clip

I have never been convinced that HRC was the actual front runner. The creepuplicans were salivating to see her get nominated. Even richard scaife, the world's worst human, and the nation's most republican republican, and lady bountiful to every mean-spirited, pro-pollution 'thinktank' in the Western World, gave money to her campaign. I think the impression that Clinton had a lock on the nomination was based on republicans' sentimental desire to get back to serious Clinton bashing, and a good deal of republican assistance to begin with. Rather like the way that the same people engineered Mcgovern's nomination in 72.

I am sorry HRC didn't win, but I am very grateful she ran. My children think nothing of a woman or a black or a grandpa running for President. Politics is open to everyone in their eyes.

oh....okay time to go....

peace~

Nick,

Dear, dear, dear. How old are we? I think one can disagree in a "provocative" way with "our host" - the last I heard this was the *inter*net - and still be respectful of the conventions of online blog dialogue.

Nick,

While Craig can certainly defend himself, he would be more offended by your post than PoU's. Never mind the poor grammar, but he is more than capable to offer forceful opinions that don't sink to the depths of profanity, especially unoriginal swears at that.

Lush, LOL. What does HL stand for? Happy little, or something like it?
--pogo

ummmmmm...
"H" for happy...definitely!!
"L" for little...uhhhh...definitely not...LOLOLOLOL!!!

actually, the "HL" in my LMHLAO is for "Hillary lovin'"(silly, huh?)!!!

McCain '08
Clinton/Obama '12
Obama '20

Nick

Craig really has asked that a basic level of civility be observed and to try and avoid the profanity. It's not censorship and some gets posted anyway, but one of the reasons this is one of the most sane political sites in the blogsphere is that we do try to pull back from the edge when things get particularly heated.

NEW THREAD

Hey look! Someone finally focusing on the parents that leave their kids! Go Obama!

CHICAGO, Illinois (AP) -- Barack Obama celebrated Father's Day by calling on black fathers, who he said are "missing from too many lives and too many homes," to become active in raising their children. "They have abandoned their responsibilities, acting like boys instead of men. And the foundations of our families are weaker because of it," the Democratic presidential candidate said Sunday at a largely black church in his hometown.

Reminding the congregation of his firsthand experience growing up without a father, Obama said he was lucky to have loving grandparents who helped his mother. He got support, second chances and scholarships that helped him get an education. Obama's father left when he was 2.

"A lot of children don't get those chances. There is no margin for error in their lives," said Obama, an Illinois senator.

"I resolved many years ago that it was my obligation to break the cycle -- that if I could be anything in life, I would be a good father to my girls," added Obama, whose daughters, Sasha and Malia, and his wife, Michelle, watched from the audience.

I really love that he made this an issue, too many deadbeats both black and white not taking care of their children. Excuses are plentiful but responsibility lacking.

Anonymous,

Okay, if you insist, I'll just skip your piles of poop in the future..

You have had nothing of value to write, anyway.

For the sake of collegiality and good sense, we should all just skip you and your friend Nick.

Speaking of delusional, as you did, Anonymous:

aren't you the one who signed your 12:05 pm comment "Delusional"?

I think you were on to something with that.

Hi Craig.

Honestly I don't know what to make of this.
On one hand I think OK, she is someone who needs a job, who has some experience, she was chief of staff to Hillary when she was first lady (i think) She is from Chicago and friends with Axelrod and the rest.
And Yet... It seems odd that he would make her CoS for a Veep that hasn't been chosen. Why do that?
Wouldn't a veep bring his or her own chief of staff with them?
Why her for this job? How would they know if the Veep and Patti were a good match?
It just seems "off" to me.

I keep reading people gleefully announcing this was a message to Clinton that she won't be Veep.
My question then is why not just tell her? It seems that this is what a grown up would do unless he was trying to insult, antagonize and humiliate her further.
His campaign said of course its not a message, they never thought that.
I'd like to take them at their word but I find it hard to believe that it wouldn't have entered their minds how it would look. These are Pro's.
Is this throwing elbows Chicago style? Is he trying to rub it in or is he pissed off that she has actually risen and become more powerful?
I don't get it.
If in fact it was another smack down of Hillary, a "message" it's very pissy. No, nasty and ugly.

Early on I started noticing how very passive aggressive Obama was in his attacks on Clinton. The media woule call them "swipes" which is a very innocuoous term, sounds kind of kittinesh. I supported him at the time and after a while this started making me very uncomfortable.

I'm hoping this isn't part of that pattern.

Passive aggression is a very destructive trait.
I don't like it at all!
lol.

Craig,

Lord! "stupidest" is not a word, (nor is "stupider").

It would be nice if people would attempt to use some semblance of correct grammar, and it's hard to expect the general uneducated American public to do so if those journalist's whom they read, are baffled with the English language themselves.

At that point we lose all hope, can't read, can't write, can't comprehend, lack of perception and depth, elect Bush, then elect a junior senator with no experience, no qualifications, no credentials to justify where he's at today.

.....but that's another topic!

still love ya :)

Posted by: sturgeone | June 17, 2008 8:04 AM

Pretty funny TPM of all places would list the sexist media campaign against Clinton- they were one of the first, worst, continual offenders.

As for the Solis story and saying Hillary deserved it. That's the kind of comment born of ignorance. Solis has worked with Hillary previously on her senate campaign. They've known each other for quite some time, it's not like she was just now suddenly brought in for this presidential bid.

I think all the signs are there that she was a turncoat in midstream. Her connections to Axelrod and other Chicago thugs is no coincidence.

As for the Obama camp claiming this entire hire was strictly innocent of any intent. If they get away with that statement, you can be damn sure they'll treat all the voters as idiots in the future (if they buy into this crap). But then again, if he gets elected, it does show enormous idiocy on the part of the voting American public.

By the way, Solis had other issues. She didn't get along with the others on the campaign and apparently treated them like dirt. She had a wall erected between herself and other workers in their offices and at one point closed down the campaign office (during the senate race I believe) for 2 full days in order to watch Grey's Anatomy entire season on DVD.

http://politicaldiscontent.blogspot.com/2008/06/was-patti-solis-doyle-just-incompetent.html

Let's just say the woman had issues.