Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/06/the-mcclinton-option.html#comment-96123

me???

As they say in toonland, Hokey smokes!!!

Lisbeth, the link in my last post is for you from the prior thread.

With all due respect, I think we should stop speculating what Hillary is thinking, doing, etc., grab a bowl of popcorn and watch what comes next.

It's sure to be entertaining no matter what happens.

Dang, Craig, if that's what she's trying to do, her Maciavelli Quotient just went up at least a standard deviation.

She's just trying to make her money back, Craig. I think this was a result of a compromise between the BO and HC camps. Once she's back in the black, she'll concede.

Craig

Is this sort of a win win situation for her.?

Craig, how Machiavellian!

Machiavelli.

"Caroline Kennedy is going to be on Barack's VP committee."

I did a shout out for Craig, but he may be avoiding us these days. : )

I heard a rumor in passing that RFK Jr. (HIllary supporter) might be under consideration. If his cousin (Barack supporter) is on the committee does that give him an edge? She already nominated Obama as the inheritor of her father's legacy, why not throw in Bobby's kid for some added glory?

Me cynical? What's that you say?

With all due respect, I think we should stop speculating what Hillary is thinking, doing,Posted by: GAKaren | June 4, 2008 2:22 PM

We've been speculating for so long, it's hard to stop.

Craig,

You make a fascinating point which is sure to get the monkey poop flying here since we will now get 500 posts about why black people are racist for not bowing to the Clintons. White people/Clinton supporters are racist because they @#$#blocked Obama shot at the white house while setting themselves up as the ones to pick up the pieces.

I do wonder though if she will really be well positioned because if she is less than enthusiastic in her efforts for him, she will any claim to one the party's largest and most active voting blocks while her most will continue to get up in years.

I personally don't think she really wants to be VP. But if she concedes, how does she get another nickel contributed to her campaign debt?
And why does she have to concede? It's not as if her concession will influence her supporters to vote for Sen Obama ... they either will or won't do so without her.

Maggs, how far west and south in OH? This stuff is strong by fairly localized.

Craig Obama doesn't have to reject Hillary, there are plenty among her own ranks who are rejecting to do the job. Hillary Rosen and Charlie Rangel are just the start. Hubris and bad political timing undid her presidential campaign and it is doing the same to her post campaign standing. Hillary is turning into a modern day Huey Long. It's always a mistake for anyone to assume people's loyalties to them out weight their loyalty to the party and the nation.

Posted by: chump June 4, 2008 2:23 PM

Milton Shapp, Howard Metzenbaum
Some people put their money where their mouth is.
It's not a problem

"Caroline Kennedy is going to be on Barack's VP committee."
Posted by: Jamie Author Profile Page | June 4, 2008 2:24 PM

Jamie,
Does that mean Hillary's off the list?

From the last thread ...

GAKaren,

Don't forget "Shut up and drink your beer!"

Posted by: Bear | June 4, 2008 2:17 PM

Yes, Bear, Wrigley Field is the world's largest beer garden ... and a lot of fun. Let's face it, some Cub teams have been so bad and games so awful fans get wasted after the top of the first inning.

bear, I think your brain's outrunning your fingers.

The big word this year is change. Well we could have one if McCain did pick Hillary as his VP. Picture this McCain could handle the Militiary issues, Hillary could handle the domestic issues, Bill could be a good will ambassador, Mit R could be in charge of economics.

Obama could pick Hillary also to handle the domistic issues and put Bill in some kind of good will ambassador slot. For a big change put Mit R into some kind of economic rule.

Jamie: I think a couple of things would work against Bobby Jr ... #1 - he has the world's most irritating voice. He makes Pres Clinton sound positively sonorous.
#2. Past issues of really hard-core drug use.

I do not know enough about RFK Jr to speculate, but I feel that what he wanted was Hillary's Senate seat. He may stil get it, as I do wonder whether she will even continue on in the Senate.

I'd like to see her back in the Senate (as Majority Leader or not) and introduce in rapid fashion as series of bills pushing her positions (almost all more comprehensive than Obama's) on:
- Health Care
- Mortgage Crisis
- Education
- et al

How dare you bring up Long are you suggesting that Cl;inton be assassinated

What a pig you are

Fun Stuff - A way to manufacture a web name to use:

http://www.spellcheck.net/

enter your first and last name as a single word and submit ie firstlast

I ended up "Januaries"

vad, I think that's more change than we can stand.

Pogo: Greene County ... pretty far SW. I know they are on a bad weather watch from the internet ... just will keep my fingers crossed. Neither one of them is a spring chicken and I don't think they have a basement.

Notice how Craig, and the rest of the media, ignore the whole HRC campaign debt issue as a motivation, when it is the SIMPLEST explanation.

Gee, I wonder if they just want to keep us tuned in to the political theater media circus that puts food on their table? Nah, they got into journalism to find the truth!

her most will continue to get up in years.
Posted by: Bear Author Profile Page | June 4, 2008 2:25 PM

I have no idea what you were saying in that post, but I did catch the usual age dig.

I do not know enough about RFK Jr to speculate, but I feel that what he wanted was Hillary's Senate seat. He may stil get it, as I do wonder whether she will even continue on in the Senate.

Posted by: maggisd | June 4, 2008 2:28 PM

"Adjusting the tinfoil hat."

Perhaps, a deal is in the works to put Hillary on the ticket as VP so RFK, Jr. can run for Hillary's senate seat. I wonder if Caroline would be on board that bus. (Careful! Obama has been known to throw people under it!)

Obama celebrates with Clinton backers
(CNN) — In what may be a sign the Democratic Party is already unifying behind Barack Obama, the Illinois senator celebrated his presidential primary victory Tuesday night with several of Hillary Clinton's supporters.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/06/04/obama-celebrates-with-clinton-backers/

Bottom line folks, Obama has all the toys now. Hillary doesn't have too much to offer in exchange for support.

jamie - best suggestion for me was laryngeal - somehow that's appropriate.

"It is the ultimate act of passive aggression."-CC

Craig,
That reminds me of an old girlfriend of my youth. She had a serious drinking problem and every time she wanted to go out drinking with her buds, she'd always start a fight with me. I guess it was a way to rationalize her behavior. lol

Maybe so, back to the senate she goes. Wait til 2012.

Warren G: The problem with your scenario is that she is not on the appropriate committees of jurisdiction. Had she not wanted to polish her military bona fides but instead chosen the committee that really interested her ... Labor, Health, and Education ... currently chaired by Sen Kennedy ... she would have been in a perfect position to go back to the Senate and work on her issues.
Now, however, knowing that 2012 is out (Dems don't give second chances), in debt (the Clintons made a lot of money over 7 years but don't necessarily have a lot of money, if you get what I mean) and largely without options, perhaps the only thing left for her is to at least see her name placed in nomination and get the roll call vote she feels she deserves.
After all, only 102 pledged delegates separate the two candidates and if Michigan had been decided the way Florida was decided, the numerical difference would have been closer to 60. So close and yet so far.

Hey Jamie,

Are you the person who has been compiling C- Lister recipes?

maggs, what's the nearest big town?

GAKaren: Maybe Sen Obama is thinking of selecting Caroline herself? Who knows? We'll all have to await developments.

"It is the ultimate act of passive aggression."-CC

Craig,
That reminds me of an old girlfriend of my youth. She had a serious drinking problem and every time she wanted to go out drinking with her buds, she'd always start a fight with me. I guess it was a way to rationalize her behavior. lol

Posted by: Rezdog | June 4, 2008 2:34 PM

Sexist? Nah.

Pogo
Dayton

GAKaren: Maybe Rezdog is just making a comment on Hillary's notorious drinking problem. LOL

Rez,

Ach. Condolences to you over that memory.

maggi: Could be, but I'm not sure that Caroline is particularly interested in entering the political arena in that way.

Campaigning is one thing, but I don't know if she would want to be a candidate herself. Like you said, Who knows?

I forgot Karen you're the perfect one. Sorry mybad

maggs, I think most of the worst stuff went south of Dayton.

Obama's VP will be a WHITE MAN- that's the real swing demographic this year.

Rez: C'mon, there is only ONE that has attained ultimate perfection. His name is ....Barack.

Brian suggest Clinton be killed

wow talk about sour grapes

Karen,

Besides, take it up with Craig, he's the one suggesting Hillary is passive aggressive.

I realize the 24 hour news cycle, gotcha journalism, and rampant pundit prognostications mean that 120 minutes is an eternity, but for goodness sake. The woman won her last state last night.

Obama set up a big whoop de do to first depress turn out and then stomp all over the results of that primary. All she asked for was that the SDs wait until that primary was concluded to move from undeclared to a decision. 24 lousy hours to wind things up. But noooooooo Mr. nobility couldn't even do that. It went with the 4 delegate shoving of the nose in the dirt.

She wanted to make her speech. Thank her supporters. Go home. Decide what to do. Not exactly unreasonable requests.

All day today the media has been ragging all over her for not immediately turning from primary winner to ecstatic supporter of the nominee (who is not yet the nominee). After the way his side behaved, even with the phony gushing opening of his push the buttons in a hurry one more time speech, he should be glad she acknowledged that he had amassed the number of delegates he did.

Obama may be a decent man, but his campaign (Axelrod?) has been one long boorish snubbing after another. She'll do something when she is damn good and ready to do something, and the yapping heads should just stuff it.

Rez, I hope you returned the favor in kind.

Sorry about the sloppy typing. At 37, I'm clearly on the slippery slope down...lol

Pogo, being from WV, did you get a chance to watch 30 Days on FX last night? Morgan Spurlock did 30 days working a coal mine and it was an interesting look into that way of life. If you missed it, I highly recommend you see it.

GAKaren, calling Wrigley a beer garden doesn't do it justice. I went to a game in 2001 and in the 90 minutes it took for them to call the game, I drank 10 beers without leaving my seat and I paid for 2 of them...I think...lol

Lastly, we should declare this "Jimmy Crack Corn" day. Rather than discussing whether or not Obama will have to pull a Kobe Bryant and get Hillary a literal or figurative $8 million diamond, let's discuss something different...like why did all the nerdy girls from high school turn out to be the models?

Craig: With regard to Hillary not conceding, etc ... your comment ignores the very real fact that the Obama campaign did everything it could to ruin the Clintons, individually and as a couple.
The very brief sentence in his speech last night about the peace and prosperity of the 90s was the first positive thing he has ever said about Bill Clinton...in the entire campaign.
I'd be amazed if she really wants to be his running mate. Even politicians can have their feelings hurt.

Jamie, great post.

Pundits be damned. (Not Craig, of course.)

Maggi,
I gave commenting and joking around about many of your unPC statements. I don't have that much time.

Jamie: Allow me to entirely associate myself with your remarks. Couldn't have said it better myself ...

Maggiesd,

Does your name infer that you are from South Dakota? If so, what's Mt. Rushmore like?

Also, has anyone read this book yet?

http://www.amazon.com/Great-American-Hypocrites-Toppling-Republican/dp/0307408027/ref=pd_sim_b_img_4

Rez; Why so bitter? Your man won! You should be like Leonardo DiCaprio on the hull of the Titanic, "I'm king of the world!"

Pay NO attention to that iceberg ...

Michelle Obama, Grinell, Iowa, December 31, 2007:

“Barack is one of the smartest people you will ever encounter who will deign to enter this messy thing called politics.”

John McCain last night:

"I don't seek the presidency on the presumption I'm blessed with such personal greatness that history has anointed me to save my country in its hour of need. I seek the office with the humility of a man who cannot forget my country saved me."

Ths is the message the McCain folks are going to pound and pound the next five months. It's going to be:

Arrogance vs. Humility.

50 Cent vs. Lee Greenwood.

Arugula vs. Apple Pie.

Rezdog: That's me ... born before PC. Given to taunting and name calling...not just a racist but a xenophobe. Just call me Patricia Buchanan.

(Meant to say "This." Sorry.)

I'm sure someone has brought this up here before...

But Ted Kennedy did not concede the nomination to Jimmy Carter in 1980; instead, he took the fight to the convention floor. Up on the podium he snubbed Carter.

I think Carter's campaign was doomed by Carter (as was his presidency). But this drama shoved Carter before the public as someone both weak and worthy of abandonment by the Bill Clinton of his time, Teddy Kennedy.

Whatever happens, it will be about power... which can maneuver voters into some awkward unity or atomize the election chances.

If Kennedy (much adored here pre-posthumously) felt he had the right to do that... and wound up the lion of the Senate... well...

Pogo: TY for the info on the course of the storm. I would have called later on tonight but I hate having to sit on pins and needles waiting to find out.

jamie, ya damn tootin'.Like I said,

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/06/the-mcclinton-option.html#comment-95824

Bear, didn't see it. Did they mention what mine he was in?

Bitter Winners.

The ultimate passive aggressives

Ally: Wow, I didn't realize McCain snarked Obama like that! Of course, when you deliver such lines in a manner that makes drying paint look exciting ... kinda gets lost in the translation.

Bear: Not So Dakota...San Diego.
But I have been to So Dakota (former rockhound) and seen Mt Rushmore as well as the beginnings of the Crazy Horse monument.
South Dakota is an amazingly beautiful state ... and nowhere else have I ever been on a road trip where I had to pull up my car on a road made up of crushed rose quartz crystals and wait for a bison herd to pass by (they seem to have a thing for licking windows).

Karen: Yeah, it comes off much better in print.

iI;'s the Ice Queen Karen, that's the problem

kinda gets lost in the translation. Posted by: GAKaren

But it looks great in print. And I think it will look good during the debates too. He can be pretty condescending to his opponent in a debate, if I remember correctly.

Bear,

I've grabbed several recipes that appealed to me, but not all of them. Are you looking for something or did you want to throw one in the hopper?

I was speaking of McCain, but I guess Obama is good at being condescending to, come to think of it.

maggs, happy to do it - this was a very strong storm cell. Hope they are fine.

9/11, I suspect that the difference between Teddy and Hillary is that while Ted's arrogance knew no bounds, I doubt that Hillary's arrogance doesn't know no bounds. Is that unclear enough?

GaKaren: Sen McCain has been using that line for years ... ever since 2000 at least. Like many others, he had a lot of time to think over there in the Hanoi Hilton.

The entire text of the speech is at RealClearPolitics (all of them are). It reads much better than he delivers it. He is a very poor orator ... on the other hand, he is far more engaging in Town Hall settings, and quite a bit more witty and spontaneous than Sen Obama.

GAK

Carolyn is pretty well tied up with the Kennedy Foundation, Kennedy Center and being Mrs. Schlossburg and mother to the now not so little Schlossburgs. She has never indicated any desire to be involved in politics. That's what made her endorsement (probably at Uncle Teddy's behest) so unusual.

chloe: It should be interesting ... a condescension contest.

Ally,

So far the moment of Obama's campaign I remember most aside from the speeches (best) and debates (adequate to snarky) is his Jay-Z moment of dusting the haters off his shoulders.

I smiled because I recognized the gesture and how he met it. (Chris Matthews' "Fred Astaire" comparison turned positive!)

But... who among the diehard voters -- older people -- will?

The basketball works great. The bowling was a gutterbowl and the beer drinking went stale with the second (and last) sip.

How does he make people identify with not just him but his feelings, his ethos?

Has he maxed out with the primary/caucus voters?

Bush who is absurdly arrogant convinced the media and the electorate that they couldn't wait to have over, etc. They liked him and believed his ton of crap ethos of compassionate conservatism and a "humble" foreign policy.

Gore remained aloof and disconnected in perception because of lousy choices and despite his natural humor and access to humility and passion no one saw until the last few years.

And Obama?

How will he reach the people who are less responsive to ideals, to memoirs, to hope and change?

How will they yield to him?

Again -- it may just be a totally screwed up economy which nails McCain to the present's wall. He doesn't have much to defend himself from major financial and economic malfeasance and dubious screw ups.

Maybe it is all about Obama not just effing up too badly... doing his thing... and enough people voting for him and against McCain.

Rez; I thought Hillary was the Ice Queen! What happened? Oh ... that's right ... she's the resident BITCH. You know, every man's FIRST wife.

Back to the misogyny handbook for you, Rez!

Guess there's hope for you yet, though, even you figured out that it is a wee bit early in the day for the term "frigid." But I'm sure that's next.

Another triumph of the Bush years. Am I the only person who sees irony just dripping off this report?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/04/AR2008060401735.html?hpid=topnews

(And just imagine - teens having sex without planning for it).

9/11: I think this election is Obama's to lose. I believe the desire to get the criminals out will prevail over any concerns people have regarding Obama. However, I just brought it up because the Republicans are so brilliant about making the dialogue about one thing and one thing only: Love of Country.

And yes, I should have made it:

Jay-Z vs. Lee Greenwood!

I wish HRC would just come out and give us an explicit list of her "demands" so the Obama people would know how seriously to take her.

Jamie: I have read (do not know if it is true) that Caroline became interested in Sen Obama because of her children and that she, in turn, nudged her uncle. I do think that part of their enthusiasm must have stemmed from Hillary's [entirely true] statement that it took LBJ to pass the Civil Rights Legislation for which MLK had worked and about which JFK had dreamed.

It was not LBJ's fault that JFK wanted to wait until after his re-election to "do" Civil Rights...but one cannot help but feel that the fact that LBJ did what JFK did not live to do only added to the Kennedy resentment of LBJ and that Hillary's statement rankled. How else to explain the really horrendous remark Sen Kennedy made about Hillary with regard to a possible VP slot.

chloe: It should be interesting ... a condescension contest.
Posted by: maggisd

lol maggi,
If you can judge by past performances, I'd say in a debate, McCain may win that one. Debates are most definitely not Obama's strong point. McCain wasn't half bad in them. A lot better at them than giving speeches.

Jamie,

She did remarkable work with private and institutional fundraising and program creating for the NYC Board of Ed. (They didn't deserve her but the schools and kids surely did.)

GAK

Carolyn is pretty well tied up with the Kennedy Foundation, Kennedy Center and being Mrs. Schlossburg and mother to the now not so little Schlossburgs. She has never indicated any desire to be involved in politics. That's what made her endorsement (probably at Uncle Teddy's behest) so unusual.

Posted by: Jamie | June 4, 2008 2:58 PM

Caroline seems to be enjyoing her current endeavors, I found it interesting that she has been involved in the Obama campaign. Are her kids in their teens now?

pogo,

I am loathe to disappoint you. It just isn't unclear at all.

She is not a nihilistic person.

I don't know if she will be a good soldier if the only opportunity to do so would be to fall on her sword and cry out Obama for President!

But I do know she will not be wasteful with what opportunities she has.

wish HRC would just come out and give us an explicit list of her "demands" so the Obama people would know how seriously to take her.Posted by: Politics of Utopia

Isn't it GRAND that she is in the position to make demands? It sure seems to be annoying an enormous amount of people.

"(Not Craig, of course.)"

Always exempt!!!

Now that I'm wound up again. How about that delegate countdown the networks did ... looked like a rocket getting ready to blast off while something really minor ... two states holding presidential primaries ... ran as a narrow crawl on the bottom of the screen.

They keep wondering why we are screaming about the way she has been treated. Everybody is so desperately worried that Sen. Obama and/or a large portion of his constituency will be offended that they find racists hiding under every folding chair never once considering how many women are offended at the way this woman has been treated. Not just the misogynistic direct insults but the things said or asked that never once would have been mentioned about any male candidate.

The meme is "for someone who wants to be VP, she's doing it all wrong." How about, "for a party that wants my vote, they are really screwing the pooch trying to get their astronaut to the stars."

9/11: I suspect (but cannot be certain) that if she comes to accept that her hopes for higher office are over (no second chances for Democrats) that she may well choose to leave the Senate and do the kind of work she did as a young woman ... children's issues, health care, etc. Given her strong Methodist background she will not be comfortable not doing some sort of public service.

Karen,

I 'd love to have a copy of the handbook, if you have one, mine's worn and outdated. Care to share. If you could throw in yours on racism, that would be great too. Just for the reference. TIA. :)

Hillary should be careful or else she's going to start coming off as one those Japanese soldier who were found on some remote island in the South Pacific in the 60's and had to be told that WWII was long over.

Jamie: Once again ... you have expressed it so well.

amie: Once again ... you have expressed it so well. maggisd

She always does.

Ally,

George H. W. Bush -- war hero, undeniable victor of the war to free Kuwait, emotional WASP to boot -- did a relatively modest, sincere version of Love of Country.

He did not rally all of the party to him.

Plenty of those and the indies went to Perot who made a campaign of facts and problems to solve which got subverted by his passionate belief in his inalienable right to weirdness.

And Clinton benefited from that bigtime.

The economy was lousy then.

This time... it is wildly dangerous.

I'm kind of thinking McCain will get some response to that.

But when people go to the booth the issues will not be God and Country or "no will know I didn't vote for Obama because he's black et al".

It's going to be survival.

Just this afternoon I read that Ed McMahon is in serious danger of losing his multi-million dollar home to due foreclosure... because a neck injury has kept him from working as he has been accustomed to for decades.

Imagine that.

Rez? Oh yes, first I'm a bitter frigid old bitch. Now I am a racist.

Don't have the racist handbook, my friend. Axlerod and Barack have ALL the copies and they're not parting with them anytime soon.

But that's all you Obamabots got ... people that don't like Obama are racists. It's no wonder, that's all your vaunted candidate has too. Empty suit. Vapid followers. Defeat in November.

Jamie: But one more thing ... the lack of any commentary at all about the fact that the Obama campaign chose to roll this SD thing out in the manner that it did ... as if to say "You think you're going to get one last victory? You think you'll be able to deliver your one last speech? Not a chance ... because we're going to go over the top before you have a minute to catch your breath or thank your supporters."
Maybe, just maybe (but maybe not), if it had been better timed ... if Obama going over the top hadn't stepped on Sen McCain's speech and then on Sen Clinton's farewell address, she might have called him after his speech and congratulated him ....

maggisd,

That was an element of what I was thinking -- and feeling.

Sometimes a person like her who is associated with a sort of "ruthlessness" gains that because they are not inherently happy with what they are doing to pursue their deeper goals.

I think she might like to be a pilgrim...

I was overhearing some peeps earlier talk about the Rush Limbaugh show today.

Apparently, he's none too happy about McCain's performance last night or the content of his speech. However, I can never tell what that guy's angling for (except for the obvious: money, attention). He talked about the hideous location for the speech, the subtext of disloyalty to the party in his message, and his lack of charisma and oratory skills. But then, of course, he hates Obama, too. So I don't know. Remember earlier in the campaign season, when he was the anti-McCain guy, only to later tell folks it was all an elaborate ruse?

I guess I just want to figure out how seriously to take his criticisms of Johnny Mac? Personally, I don't know a single republican who is satisfied with McCain, but on the other hand, what's the alternative? I know Obama has *some* support among republicans, more than Clinton according to some estimates, but in the end, we know that many of them will hold their noses and vote for the Mac Attack. The question is: how many?

I firmly believe that if McCain attempts to go to the center, he gets into big trouble with the base. Likewise, I think a fair amount of democrats (not all - please don't attack me for this HRC peeps; I honestly want to get a discussion going here) will find his attempt to remake the McCain of 2000 pretty phony.

Anyway, I apologize for the long post. But: thoughts?

While Obama is basking in the glory, McCain is on the attack with his election strategy.

"I had an invitation delivered to his office inviting him to engage in 10 town hall meetings, one a week between now and the democrat convention. "

I suspect McCain doesn't care if Obama takes him up on the challenge or not.

Jack

"first I'm a bitter frigid old bitch. Now I am a racist."

Not mutually exclusive terms.

Obama spent the campaign trashing both Clintons

She doesn't want to be vp with him.

This is more Obama baloney, like the rumors started yesterday which the AP dutifully reported and then had to retract.

It's easier to speculate then report. The Bush years have proved we have the laziest, least imaginative and least ethical press corp. No wonder the electorate is ill informed

9/11

That's what I mean. Her brother was the one who sort of handled the political legacy with the public persona while she was the one who carried on the charitable and family functions with a much quieter life.

As to her "kids" getting her interested in Sen. Obama... A when did they see and hear him? That little introduction with Uncle Teddy and Carolyn as the heiress of Camelot was a little over the top to have started with listening to the kids.

Isn't it GRAND that she is in the position to make demands? It sure seems to be annoying an enormous amount of people.

Posted by: chloe

With all due respect, that's why I put the word "demand" in scare quotes, because I'm not 100% certain she actually *is* in a position to make demands. We'll see how her game plays out, but I think the longer she holds out on an endorsement, or, at the very minimum, a suspending of her campaign, the less she gets from supporters, party leadership, and donors.

Brian: And you're a bitter annoying queen that hates himself so much he has to lash out at everyone else.

Posted by: Politics of Utopia Author Profile Page | June 4, 2008 3:18 PM
I knew exactly why you put "demand" in quotes. And it didn't scare me, with all due respect. I made my point.

9/11, damn, and I tried so hard to make it convoluted. Maybe next time.

PU, I doubt that either Hillary or Obama gives a crap about whether Obama's supporters take Hillary's demands seriously. With her having been supported by roughly as many voters as he did, many of whom as evidenced here are not inclined to vote for him at her urging, and undoubtedly many fewer without it, there may be at least one reason that he might seriously consider any demands she might make, regardless of what his supprters think.

laryngeal

More delusional crap from the Obama supporters

Moveon. Why are you so focused on Clinton?

Oh right, because you don't give a crap about Obama
it's all about proving you have a bigger one then the Clenis.

And you're a bitter annoying queen that hates himself so much he has to lash out at everyone else.
Posted by: GAKaren | June 4, 2008 3:19 PM

Karen, I wonder what Freud would say about him?

Damn Karen, now who's getting excited er. . hysterical, right? lol

just joking back and forth. chill.

chloe,

See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scare_quotes

I wasn't trying to scare you; it's a general term used when you put quotation marks around a word in order to draw attention to it, for a variety of purposes. : )

Jamie two of Caroline's children are old enough to vote. I assume all her children have cable TV and had the opportunity to see and hear Senator Obama as most of us do, on TV.

GAKaren,

This may interest you just now --

A website devoted to why those adorably psychotic narcissists never ever apologize:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_the_narcissist_ever_sorry_and_does_he_ever_apologize

Karen, I wonder what Freud would say about him?

Posted by: chloe

Mommy problems

queen? LOL, now that's funny!

Mommy problems
Posted by: Obvious | June 4, 2008 3:24 PM

You read my mind.

Rez you better ad homophobic to Karen's list of flaws!

LOL

GAK, please get this straight.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/06/the-mcclinton-option.html#comment-95975

Chloe: First rule of parenting an unruly two-year old is to ignore them. Unfortunately, sometimes you have to communicate with them.

When we speak or talk about Brian the terrorists win.

Actually...

Caroline Kennedy and Ed Schlossberg raised their kids without frequent access to TV.

Reading, exploring, researching, creating, major social engagements and helping others were the activities there through the school years.

Those are the things with which remote controls have much to do --

Except, of course, the off switch.

Surprisingly there are people -- even here -- who do not have the cable news on terribly often --

As at least one local example seems to prove it really doesn't do much to encourage intelligence, decency, reflection or emotional health.

PofU: Some people are so hung up by the idea that the Clintons spend all their time plotting and scheming that they can't accept that both of them may be really at a loss as to what they should do.
It's obvious from the timing, location, and text of her speech that she hoped the SDs would hold off long enough so that Obama wouldn't go over the top until the Montana results came in. That had been what the press had reported for days.
For some reason, however, the Obama campaign had the SDs roll out earlier...perhaps so that Hillary would find herself in the position of appearing not to acknowledge his victory....
And, if she truly believes she would be the better GE candidate, AND the better President ... while at the same time realizing that even her Senate career now will taste like ashes ... well, I hate to break this to you Obama supporters, but Hillary is actually a human being, with human emotions and reactions. And so is Bill ... but they are not stupid. They both know that the Obama campaign did everything it could to ruin them entirely ... why should she even care what will benefit Sen Obama at this point?

You read my mind.

Posted by: chloe | June 4, 2008 3:25 PM

Unfortunately I have read his posts

Pogo: Words to live by. LOL

Posted by: Politics of Utopia Author Profile Page | June 4, 2008 3:23 PM

PU,
Come on.
You're starting to really scare me this time.
I TOLD YOU I GET.
I was making a point.
Deal with it.

Caroline's children are probably beyond teens. Remember when she was on the cover of AARP magazine a couple months ago? Now, that was depressing.

"cable TV and had the opportunity to see and hear Senator Obama as most of us do, on TV. "

I suppose so, but they don't seem to be the types that would be part of the earlier gape mouthed crowd, there hadn't been numerous debates, he hadn't stood out at the one their were, and his overwhelming coverage by the press didn't really start to hit its stride until after the endorsement.

Hillary must concede and start unifying the party. James Clyburn, a legend of congress and true hero from the civil rights days, is being harassed:

(SC Rep James) Clyburn told FOX News Radio’s "Brian and the Judge" that the callers identified themselves as Hillary Clinton supporters. Clyburn, an African-American and the third ranking House Democrat, said a white intern in his office was so upset by the calls that she had to be consoled by other workers and left the office early.

"We got more vitriolic, nasty phone calls, really racially tinged phone calls in my congressional office, so much so, until one of the interns, a young lady who is not a stranger to politics ... and she is not a black person, she left the office, had to be consoled because of the kinds of phone calls from people who identified themselves as Hillary Clinton supporters," he said.

"I was absolutely shocked, could not believe that this happened. I could understand people saying, ‘Why are you doing this or why would you not support Hillary Clinton?’ but to call me the kinds of names I have not heard since the ’40s and ’50s," he said.

Clyburn said some of the callers threatened to "sabotage this election." He added that he does not think Clinton understands her role in unifying the party.

My my my 9/11 I didn't realize you're expert on how the Schlossbergs raised their children. Is there any topic you aren't expert on, is there anyone famous you don't rub shoulders with? What is someone like you doing wasting your time with the likes of us? Little fish in a tiny pond.

Caroline's children are probably beyond teens. Remember when she was on the cover of AARP magazine a couple months ago? Now, that was depressing.

Posted by: lizbeth | June 4, 2008 3:29 PM

That is depressing.

BTW, wouldn't her membership in AARP and the fact that she is a white woman make her a bitter old bitch?

Caroline's children are probably beyond teens. Posted by: lizbeth June 4, 2008 3:29 PM

lizbeth, that's probably why she's been in the public eye more lately. Moving on to the next phase.

Pogo,

I missed the beginning so I am not sure what mine it was.

Karen,
LOL. You guys are killin' me

Jamie maybe they read his books. what the fuck do you care how Caroline came to support Obama? Why do you have denigrate and question the motives and sincerity of anyone who isn't for Hillary, I've watched you go from a pleasant amusing person to in the course of two years a bitter old hag.

Posted by: BrianInNYC | June 4, 2008 3:35 PM

But you have remained the same clueless asshole the entire time

lizbeth

You want depression?

Who is this man?

http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/bios/images/nez201.jpg

"I've watched you go from a pleasant amusing person to in the course of two years a bitter old hag. "

I didn't want you to be lonely.

You get the treatment you deserve. No one else thinks that of Jaime.

Jamie, I don't know who that is. Clue?

"I was absolutely shocked, could not believe that this happened. I could understand people saying, ‘Why are you doing this or why would you not support Hillary Clinton?’ but to call me the kinds of names I have not heard since the ’40s and ’50s," he said. - Clyburn

Wow, he's got a real beef with the Clintons. Wonder what perceived slight happened between them?
He has been hysterical about Bill Clinton's behavior all along and now he is claiming he's being harassed. Unity? Maybe he should take a long look in the mirror himself.

Guess he didn't get the memo that the primary is over.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/06/hillary-courts-vp-rejection.html#comment-96258

Clybourn has always been the one to come out to report Racism, since South Carolina. And it's always Hillary's fault.

And as for "Hillary must concede and start unifying the party".
Send her a memo.

Seriously Jamie what fucking business is it of yours how Caroline came to support Obama. Why do you have call her a liar? From everything I know, the woman is rather honorable and has dedicated a great part of her life to public service. What is wrong is with you?

Karen - we must be thinking alike at the moment.

Joe

A practical guide for statements coming out of the Obama camp.
http://bp3.blogger.com/_t-EfdceTs60/SCiw6kJnbEI/AAAAAAAADis/xobZFZNitwE/s1600-h/ObomaManiacBehaviorGuide.jpg

Clyburn's statement falls under "threat mode"

Seen it so many times that we've got them organised.

Nothing new here folks, move along.

Jack

Jamie: Touche." LOL

And to our anonymous posters ... good going.

lizbeth

Michael Nesmith of the Monkees

Her children are in their late teens, and early 20s. I was working for McGovern when he ran for president and I was 14. There are lots of teenagers who get involved in politics.

Brian,

Thank you for asking.

As always when you ask... there's a good response.

For starters, I've been a 15 year volunteer writing teacher in two Manhattan Regions.

The programs which got developed over time lasted because they had good effects. Which led to invitations to a few conferences.

I met Mrs. Schlossberg through that at two conferences and we discussed how I had used the viewing and video/computer habits of kids to engage and enhance the levels of their writing.

It was then she mentioned how limited TV access was in her family.

But I had worked with Mr. Schlossberg for a few years when I was on the Advisory Board of the Leonard Bernstein Education Through The Arts Foundation when it was based in Nashville.

Its main backer there was Kitty Moon, married to Patsi's pal Ralph Emery and the only woman to ever run the CWA.

The really wonderful people who worked there were all fulltime teachers.

Schlossberg was involved in proposing some projects for the Foundation. Unfortunately the Bernstein family mess (I think that's trademarked) frustrated most plans and efforts...

And through the not so welcome efforts of Hillary Rosen (whose name you dropped) Bernstein's deathbed wish was absorbed into the ugly realm of the RIAA where it quickly became dormant, then dead.

Great effort, great dreams, failed outcome.

chloe: We bitter old bitches have to stick together! LOL

Seriously Brian what fucking business is it of yours what Jamie posts

No one appointed you anything STFU

This is a free speech zone.

chloe: Clyburn really really doesn't get it, does he? As if her concession would unify the party.
Obama supporters believe that the Clintons played the race card. Clinton supporters believe that the Obama campaign played the race card.
Just as no one enjoys being the recipient of racial slurs, no one enjoys being called a racist ... I have even heard skinheads (on TV) deny that they are racist.

Been lots of fun, guys.

See you later.

Jamie: The white-out millionaire? Good grief!

I thought NC is one of the states Obama is going to carry.

Talk about aggressive aggressive.

Obama supporters threatened elected officials with primary opponents. Looks like karma to me.

you google brilliantly 9/11

Whatever happened to the swearing rule? If it was being enforced, Craig could be laying on a beach somewhere at this very moment (on our nickel.)

"Wonder what perceived slight happened between them?"
Karen,

He's probably a liar too. Don't you think?

"Before South Carolina's primary, Mr. Clyburn admonished Sen. Clinton for suggesting President Johnson deserved more credit than Martin Luther King Jr. for civil-rights laws. On primary night, Mr. Clinton called Mr. Clyburn and they spoke for 50 minutes. "Let's just say it wasn't pleasant," Mr. Clyburn says.

Mr. Clinton called Mr. Clyburn an expletive, say Democrats familiar with the exchange. Mr. Clyburn's office would confirm only that the former president used "offensive" words. Some day soon, the congressman says, he'll write about the incident."

The white-out millionaire? Good grief!

He is the white out heir.

Maggi,

Good post, but I guess I don't see it the way you do. I'm not sure I'll ever understand the argument that BO did everything he could to ruin the legacy of the Clintons. Her people had every opportunity to stop Mark Penn and his "cocaine" Hardball appearance, to answer candidly about Obama's association with Islam on 60 Minutes, to apologize, directly to Obama, for the RFK comments, whether they were misunderstood or not, and to put a leash on the un-Presidential,ugly, red-faced, finger-wagging Bill Clinton that has soured his legacy for so many people.

Here's something I haven't admitted here before: I used to be a Clinton fan. A big one. For a long while, I was stoked about her candidacy. It wasn't until I saw the kind of sad, angry man that Bill Clinton turned into, and the kind of Nixonian candidate Hillary turned into that I lost faith in them. I had very good memories of the 1990s - well, there was that merger of Exxon-Mobil that he let go through, grrrr - and, despite my troubles with political dynasties, I was excited to see her run. They let me down.

Now, I know I'm going to get attacked by a lot of people in a moment. I think at root, the problem between the rabid Obama and the Clinton people - which is us; most people across the US don't obsess about this stuff, follow it to the degree we do - has to do with varying interpretations of the campaign and the conduct of those involved. Really, it's pointless to argue anymore who was more villainous, Machiavellian, whatever you want to call it..

Did Obama make mistakes? Sure. He should have stopped some of his surrogates from continuing to press the race issue after he formally declared it below the belt and irrelevant to the campaign. Nobody's blameless.

Maybe, at least for a while, let's simply accept that we're not going to get anyway by figure pointing (oops, that's not intended to another reference to Bill) or accusations about who ruined the legacies of X, Y, or Z. We're not going to get anyway, I believe, because we are dug too far into our own partisan holes. Myself included. So, rather than bringing up the ad hominem, fringe conspiracy charges - of which I have too been guilty - why don't we shift to actually discussing the race from the perspective of politicos. Let's look at the policy questions. Let's at the issues of rhetoric, image, experience, and substance that crop up in the campaign.

I know I've been an asshole on this board. But I want to make a pledge to stop stirring things up with the Clinton folks. Anyway else want to join me in rethinking the way we do things and interact with each other on this board? I know many of you will be skeptical of what I'm saying - and probably annoyed at the long post. But I'm serious. I'm tired of the same old bickering that never changes anything.

Anyway: thoughts?

9/11: Your post references Ralph Emery. Am I right in remembering that he is the man responsible for two of the most haunting songs used in the movie O Brother Where Art Thou? (One of my all-time favorites)

chloe: Clyburn really really doesn't get it, does he? As if her concession would unify the party. Maggisd

No. I think he does get it Maggi.

He came out before the election in a few states with this story of racism. And I know racism exists and maybe it has reared it's ugly head again, but it's gotten to the point that it's easy to discount what he says. The boy that cried wolf?

Maggie

I nearly fell over when a frie